# Three Eyed Panda Chronos - What'S Out There?



## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

I've been craving a panda chrono for some time but there aren't any among the kind of watches I know best (there's a reversed Sturmanskie chrono and a 2 eyed Sturmanskie). The only ones I can think of are these:

Rolex Daytona:










Omega's rip-off 










Heuer Autavia:










This Dugena that seems to me the same as the Heuer:










These all cost silly money and are pretty far away (the Rolex light years away) from what I'm willing to pay for a watch. That leaves me only with this...

Mr. Bond's favourite, the Alpha Daytona (sorry mate!  ):










With its sunburst silver dial, this one is actually my favourite. The movement is acceptable, as it's based on an ST-19 with the added 24H subdial.

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of them, so what else is out there for less than 300/400 euros?


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Kutusov said:


> I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of them, so what else is out there for less than 300/400 euros?


How about an Orient J39725-70 D-I-Y repaired 7A38 'beater' for a mere 14 Euros ? 



SEIKO7A38 said:


> Here: Sunday Morning (Post-1980) Beaters - Post #21
> 
> My other recently acquired Orient J39 'probably just needs new battery / re-build it yourself beater' - the J39725-70:
> 
> ...


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

SEIKO7A38 said:


> How about an Orient J39725-70 D-I-Y repaired 7A38 'beater' for a mere 14 Euros ?


  

...errrr, no thanks. Not exactly what I had in mind









Not much against quartz but I was thinking mechanical...


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## tall_tim (Jul 29, 2009)

Kutusov said:


> I've been craving a panda chrono for some time but there aren't any among the kind of watches I know best (there's a reversed Sturmanskie chrono and a 2 eyed Sturmanskie). The only ones I can think of are these:
> 
> These all cost silly money and are pretty far away (the Rolex light years away) from what I'm willing to pay for a watch. That leaves me only with this...
> 
> ...


I had one of these Alphas, and nice as it was, I found bl00dy annoying. The screw in chrono pushers were a pain- ok if you never use the chrono, but a total faff if you use it a lot as I do.


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

don't dismiss the seiko so quickly - the mechanical quartz movement in them is excellent. Your budget will not stretch to the heuer/ breitling/zenith/ universe geneve ones that spring to mind, so the seiko is a good call.

The alpha promises a lot, but from my experience you will never love it.


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

tall_tim said:


> I had one of these Alphas, and nice as it was, I found bl00dy annoying. The screw in chrono pushers were a pain- ok if you never use the chrono, but a total faff if you use it a lot as I do.


I'm ashamed to say that probably the only time I engage the chrono on my 3133s is when I want them to run out of juice faster... :bag:



scottswatches said:


> The alpha promises a lot, but from my experience you will never love it.


I know, I had a few and ended up selling them all... I miss my Alpha Coke GMT but I'll replace that one with a Steinhart... some day...

I should say I am a bit curious towards those 7A38s, especially from all Paul's posts. I'm sure there's a decent panda version of those, I just can't find it and take a look. I think I remember seeing something like that on a picture from Paul's collection, I'll just have to use the search function.

Anyway, I'm almost sure I won't find anything else... the Russians don't do one and apart from the 3133 (31682 to be a 3 eyed) and ST-19, all mechanical chronos cost a lot more than 300/400.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Kutusov said:


> I should say I am a bit curious towards those 7A38s, especially from all Paul's posts.
> 
> I'm sure there's a decent panda version of those, I just can't find it and take a look.
> 
> I think I remember seeing something like that on a picture from Paul's collection, I'll just have to use the search function.


There wasn't ever any *true black and white* 'Panda' model 7A38 made by Seiko, per se, Renato. 

Probably the nearest was the 7A38-6000, a 'small' sized 'Diver', but as with your favoured Alpha Daytona clone,

the actual dial colours were very dark navy blue sub-dials on matt silvery / light grey - not black on white. :no:










In terms of 'otherwise-branded' 7A38's, apart from the Orient J39725-70 'Panda', there's this:



SEIKO7A38 said:


> I recently posted a photo of my latest non-Seiko 7A38 acquisition:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That one is actually black on white.


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## itsguy (Nov 16, 2009)

I had the same craving - sadly there's nothing out there quite as beautiful as the Rolex. I ended up with the 'Omega rip-off' as you say! For me it looks better on leather as the speedy reduced bracelet is a bit on the shiny side. There's also a white on black variation of the same watch (a Japanese limited edition speedy reduced), which I've only seen for sale once and knd of wish I'd picked up. Pity you can't fit the other kind of bracelet from a schumacher or modern speedy, but you can't, I've tried and they don't fit, I wish there was a way.

There's also a special edition 'panda' speedmaster pro which is bigger and a fair bt more expensive, but still a good Â£20k less than the Rolex.


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## jwg663 (Feb 26, 2004)

Have a look for Gevril Tribecas...


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## martinzx (Aug 29, 2010)

If you do not want a quartz, & want a quality mechanical, at the budget, it is got to be the 2 eyed 6138, it is a compromise, but what a watch 










This image stolen from the net.....................


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

SEIKO7A38 said:


> There wasn't ever any *true black and white* 'Panda' model 7A38 made by Seiko, per se, Renato.
> 
> Probably the nearest was the 7A38-6000, a 'small' sized 'Diver', but as with your favoured Alpha Daytona clone,
> 
> the actual dial colours were very dark navy blue sub-dials on matt silvery / light grey - not black on white. :no:


Yeah, that's the one. I thought it was black on white but after spending some time googling them I realized it was dark blue on white... shame...



itsguy said:


> I had the same craving - sadly there's nothing out there quite as beautiful as the Rolex. I ended up with the 'Omega rip-off' as you say! For me it looks better on leather as the speedy reduced bracelet is a bit on the shiny side. There's also a white on black variation of the same watch (a Japanese limited edition speedy reduced), which I've only seen for sale once and knd of wish I'd picked up. Pity you can't fit the other kind of bracelet from a schumacher or modern speedy, but you can't, I've tried and they don't fit, I wish there was a way.
> 
> There's also a special edition 'panda' speedmaster pro which is bigger and a fair bt more expensive, but still a good Â£20k less than the Rolex.


I said rip-off just because some people still hang on to the believe that everything Swiss is original and all the other brands are filled with nasty men copying what the hard working and brilliant Swiss come up with 

That is a beautiful watch! It hits a lot more marks than the new Rolex Daytonas!

I remember that Japanese reversed Panda too, beautiful thing!



jwg663 said:


> Have a look for Gevril Tribecas...


I know that one, in fact it was a thread on TZ about that watch that reminded me that I still needed a panda chrono  My comment there still remains, I actually prefer the Alpha version of that watch :bag:



martinzx said:


>


You know I've chased one of those for a while. Lost a couple of ebay auctions from a particular UK seller, always with some last second superbid. The funny thing is that after a couple of days, the watch with be relisted :thumbsdown: (well, to be honest, I can't prove it was the same but it was a bit of a coincidence)

I don't know, but after musing a while on that one, the thrill was gone... I have no doubt whatsoever that it's a fantastic watch but...

Anyways, the case is pretty much closed for me... either I get very drunk and end up ordering an Alpha (and that's not some remote possibility) or this matter is now OHPF 

2012 is going to be a pretty nasty year for us Portuguese, I found out a couple of weeks ago that more than 50% of my income is going away straight to the tax man. So not the best year to be thinking about watches. Plus I have one incoming and a new one that I practically haven't wore yet. Oh, and a freshly repaired one that hasn't seen any wrist time for a while because it was on mending.

From all these watches, I should add that the Dugena is probably my favourite, even more than the Heuer. The tachymeter insert just seems "more right" in a racing chrono...

Austerity, here I go... :cray:


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## Lampoc (Oct 31, 2010)

"Poljot" Aviator? You've surely seen this one...


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Kutusov said:


> SEIKO7A38 said:
> 
> 
> > There wasn't ever any *true black and white* 'Panda' model 7A38 made by Seiko, per se, Renato.
> ...


So did I (for a long time), Renato. :blush2:



SEIKO7A38 said:


> I don't do 'Divers' as a general rule. h34r:
> 
> To my mind, they're unnecessarily bulky and their bezels pick up graunches far too easily.
> 
> ...


Right up to the time I bought mine - based on this seller's photo. 



SEIKO7A38 said:


> Earlier today, I hit the 'Buy-it-Now' button on this one:


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Lampoc said:


> "Poljot" Aviator? You've surely seen this one...


Yes I did! And those are really cheap too! I honestly don't know what's that colour on the dial... real seller's photos look very different from seller to seller. Some look a dark silver, some are more bronzy-alike. Not white though...

It would be a lot easier if Volmax did a reversed dial of these:










The closest thing is this one:










...but the dial true colour is a mystery for me also. On some pictures (like the one above) it clearly seems white. On other pictures is a kind of grey thing like the one you've posted. Maybe there are two versions of the watch, the white one can be one of the newer 42mm Volmax versions (well, I'm sure it is a 42mm version because of the way Sturmankie is written on the dial. If it was straight, it would be the older 40mm version) .

I'm also not too sure about having those green numbers, plain stick markers would work a lot better...


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## Lampoc (Oct 31, 2010)

I almost forgot one of my all time favourite watches.... the dial on mine is gold and black. Here's one for you


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Lampoc said:


> I almost forgot one of my all time favourite watches.... the dial on mine is gold and black. Here's one for you


Yeap, there's those too! In fact it's the closest thing to what I was thinking about, within the price!

On the Sturmankie front, I forgot to post this one:










...although it's more of a Carrera sort of thing.

Man, this is seriously fecked up... the more I look at the alternatives, the more I like the Alpha... :wallbash:


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## tall_tim (Jul 29, 2009)

Yeah, another vote for the Citizen Bull Panda! Mine is black and silver.


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## itsguy (Nov 16, 2009)

Kutusov said:


> .
> 
> Man, this is seriously fecked up... the more I look at the alternatives, the more I like the Alpha... :wallbash:


Ah, but admit it, the reason you like the Alpha is because it at least looks like the Rolex, the one and only truly exquisite panda. And yet, it will never BE the Rolex, and will remind you of the fact every time you look at it. It's tempting to have one just to 'play with' but I can't imagine wearing it. You want a proper watch in the end, with a touch of its own identity, but not too much!

One of the speedmaster Apollo something or other specials is probably the nearest you can get.


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## Sparky (Nov 2, 2005)

You have missed the Universal Geneve Tri Compax, which I think is awesome!










Mark


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## bsa (Dec 23, 2010)

I vote for the citizen bullhead


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## Big Rick (Dec 28, 2010)

How about a Zenith el primiro. I had one of these and sold it, I regret it now!!


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## itsguy (Nov 16, 2009)

You could also have a look at some vintage Zodiac, Aristo and Clebar Carrara-likes - sorry no pictures but google should dig this up.


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

Sparky said:


> You have missed the Universal Geneve Tri Compax, which I think is awesome!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I mentioned it, and if you are selling that one for the â‚¬300-400 budget then I bagsy first refusal!


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Sparky said:


> You have missed the Universal Geneve Tri Compax, which I think is awesome!


That is a beauty Mark!! But that goes for around â‚¬1500... I still can't wrap my head around the idea of spending that kind of money on a watch...

@Rick: that is a beautiful watch also but it's what I call a reversed Panda. Lots and lots of choices for black dialed chronos with white subdials, it's a lot harder to find one the other way round. Still, Zenith has them Panda style:


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## DaveOS (May 9, 2010)

This?


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Dave O said:


> This?


What brand is that? I can't make out the name...


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## Krispy (Nov 7, 2010)

Dreyfuss & Co I think...model DGB00032/06










*
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*
*

*
*


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Thanks, I can see it now!

â‚¬650... well, that's a lot closer to a price I would be willing to pay... no information about movements on their site though. Still, it's a nice heads up!


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## Krispy (Nov 7, 2010)

Kutusov said:


> ... no information about movements on their site though. Still, it's a nice heads up!


Actually...looks like it's a quartz...


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## DaveOS (May 9, 2010)

I think it is a quartz. My bad.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Kutusov said:


> â‚¬650... well, that's a lot closer to a price I would be willing to pay...





KrispyDK said:


> Actually...looks like it's a quartz...


I could build you a *very* nice Seiko 7A38 Franken Panda for 650 Euros, Renato. :hammer:

It would be unique - reliable; extremely accurate - and not need winding up or shaking.









Anyway, whether you want one or not :schmoll: .... prompted by this thread, I've decided to build one for myself. :tongue2:

It's going to be based on this - I've already nominated it as the 'sacrificial lamb'. :butcher:



SEIKO7A38 said:


> This is one of my Seiko 7A38 'daily beaters' - I actually have 2 such identical self-refurbished 7A38-7280's which I alternate:


Imagine it with black sub-dials (with white printing) and white, or possibly silver sub-dial hands ....

The white Tachymeter dial ring will very probably get swapped for a black one (with white lettering) ....

And if I do that then the white nylon crystal gasket will get swapped for a black one (to give it more 'depth').

I've already identified and located (NOS) the perfect red sweep second hand for it too - off a 7A28-7100. :grin:


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

I was guessing as much... by the position of the subdials, it's probably an ETA quartz like PointTec uses on their Junkers and Zeppelins.

Looks like a nice Project Paul! How are you going to get the subdials the way you want?


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## LJD (Sep 18, 2011)

Might be worth a offer

http://www.jameslist.com/advert/306282/for-sale-rolex-paul-newman


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Kutusov said:


> Looks like a nice Project Paul! How are you going to get the subdials the way you want?


It's going to involve a bit more butchery :butcher: - dial splitting (again), Renato. :naughty:

See this thread: A Few Of My Own 7A38 'Frankens' - Shock, Horror ! - post # 62 onwards.

Just before Christmas I bought a 7A38-7029 sample case on eBay - item # 160700404353

I was already in two minds as to what to do with it, but I knew it would come in handy. :think:

I have 3 stainless 7A38-7020/-7029's - but only one of them is in really nice condition.

I was thinking about building this sample case up into a fourth one - but wasn't sure why. 

Instead, it will get broken up for parts. The watch-case will go to improve the lesser of my 7A38-7029's ....

The sample case's dial and hands, being almost 'like new', will get fitted to my stainless 7A38-7020 ....

Then the dial from that one, which has poor lume, will get sliced in half to provide the black sub-dial back-plate.

Just like I did with my previous 7A38 split-dial Franken - when I probably should have been building this instead. 

So it'll end up, looking something like this (but with a silvery-white 710L dial top plate, rather than pale silvery-grey 703L):










.... only hopefully rather better, this time - without (any of) the gold plated bits, and topped off with a red sweep second hand.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Kutusov said:


> That leaves me only with this...
> 
> Mr. Bond's favourite, the Alpha Daytona (sorry mate!  ):
> 
> ...


Getting back to your original post Renato (with apologies for the inevitable 7A38 fftopic

Why did you cite 300/400 Euros as your budget ? :huh:

I did a search on eBay (world-wide) on 'Alpha Daytona' at the time.

The only eBay seller offering your preferred silver/black version was in Italy - he had a couple of them -

for the eye-watering Buy-it-Now asking price of *440 Euros* (Â£368.26) !! :shocking:

Yet 'Alphawatch-hk' are offering the pukka 'Paul Newman' cream/black version (item # 380396117370) for $185 (Â£119.59).

Don't they make the other version you want any more ? :huh:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

SEIKO7A38 said:


> Don't they make the other version you want any more ? :huh:


Ignore me. :duh:

It's still there on Alpha's website: Item No.: 831-SG2903 (BLACK BEZEL,SILVER DIAL) Price: US$152.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Renato, in case you hadn't seen it, there's a similar-themed thread on WUS - with a few interesting alternative suggestions:

*In the mood for a Panda - which of these or something else?*



> ...or there's always this:


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

SEIKO7A38 said:


>


Now that's a real Panda!!  

fftopic2: Speaking of pandas...










unk:

...and I see it know how you are going to pull off a Seiko panda. I though you were going to use some printing dial thingy, that's why I was curious to know if such a machine existed (probably does and costs a small fortune).

Well, thanks guys, and this is probably going to be a disappointment to put in the effort to look for these watches, but I had a few too many last night and ended up ordering the Alpha. At least I'll put it out of my system right? 

It's the best looking one IMO and for US$150 it can't possibly go very wrong. I had a few Alphas before I think they are good watches. The chronos are better built than the subs and the cheaper ones. It has an ST19 which is a great movement and the closest thing to my beloved 31xx Russian movements.

I also have the right strap for it (I know the bracelet is kind of crappy) so, in the end, it's going to look exactly like this (photos nicked from the net):




























Maybe one day I'll upgrade it but, looking ahead, I reckon it won't be any time soon. 2012 is going to be a very tough year and I really have to concentrate on saving and not spending...


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