# Have I Bought A Fake ?



## charvelj

I purchased an Orient CER00007B from Skywatches. When it arrived I noticed that the tag had a model number of FER00007B0. This was also on the hologram sticker, and the crown does not have the Orient logo stamped on it. I have queried this with Skywatches and received this email :

Hi,

We confirmed that we shipped out the ordered watch. From we know, Orient has

started to manufacture the exactly same watch and in future, they will be

using FER00007B0 instead of CER00007B but the fact that both models refer to

the same watch.

Best Regards,

Customer Supports

I have other Orient watches and the build quality of this one does not match the watches I own.

Have I been duped ?

I still have time to open a dispute with Paypal.

Thanks in advance.


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## Haggis

charvelj said:


> I purchased an Orient CER00007B from Skywatches.com.sg. When it arrived I noticed that the tag had a model number of FER00007B0. This was also on the hologram sticker, and the crown does not have the Orient logo stamped on it. I have queried this with Skywatches and received this email :
> 
> Hi,
> 
> We confirmed that we shipped out the ordered watch. From we know, Orient has
> 
> started to manufacture the exactly same watch and in future, they will be
> 
> using FER00007B0 instead of CER00007B but the fact that both models refer to
> 
> the same watch.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Customer Supports
> 
> I have other Orient watches and the build quality of this one does not match the watches I own.
> 
> Have I been duped ?
> 
> I still have time to open a dispute with Paypal.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Photos please


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## charvelj

I'll try and get some photos up later. My camera has developed a fault and my only other means of taking photos is my iphone.

I'll post them but they will not be great quality.....


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## charvelj

">

Can someone please point me to a guide on how to insert a photo....... Thank you.


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## handlehall

charvelj said:


> ">
> 
> Can someone please point me to a guide on how to insert a photo....... Thank you.


There is a pinned topic on the main board


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## martinzx

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13637

here you goÂ


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## charvelj

Thanks guys.

I've read through that tutorial but I keep getting an error when using flickr as the host.

Arrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhh.........


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## charvelj

I keep getting this warning...

You are not allowed to use that image extension on this board.

What am I doing wrong ?


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## martinzx

charvelj said:


> I keep getting this warning...
> 
> You are not allowed to use that image extension on this board.
> 
> What am I doing wrong ?


Try using

http://img594.imageshack.us


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## Chromejob

I'm not sure what the first digit on the model # indicates, manufacture, or region to be sold in, or....? The ER divers are sold here in the US as the 2ER0000. I don't know what the 00007B is other than, black-dialed model? The 2ER00001B pictured on Orient Watch USA's site doesn't show a signed crown (likewise the other variants).

I have a CEV09 ... and according to the Orient site, the first character is dropped to correctly identify the model # as a ER09. Likewise my ER1S (2010 Orient x STI Series 1 Ltd Ed). I'm not sure I'd worry about the first character.



charvelj said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> I've read through that tutorial but I keep getting an error when using flickr as the host.


Flickr finally (finally!) implemented this. Click *Share this*, then select *HTML/BBcode*, click the BBcode radio button, and copy & paste the entire code into this message window. You can select the size of the "thumbnail" (posted image) in a drop down list, and it gives you an URL link to the Flickr post as a bonus. You can delete the URL tags (opening and closing, e.g. URL and /URL) if you select a big-sized image.

Here's an example from my album. If you click "Quote Reply" on my message, you can see the URL & IMG codes that you should be pasting in. You can delete everything after the /IMG /URL tags that Flickr gives you.



09012010(001) by Korova Interociter, on Flickr



martinzx said:


> Try using
> 
> http://img594.imageshack.us


No need, he can use Flickr.


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## charvelj

David Spalding said:


> I'm not sure what the first digit on the model # indicates, manufacture, or region to be sold in, or....? The ER divers are sold here in the US as the 2ER0000. I don't know what the 00007B is other than, black-dialed model? The 2ER00001B pictured on Orient Watch USA's site doesn't show a signed crown (likewise the other variants).
> 
> I have a CEV09 ... and according to the Orient site, the first character is dropped to correctly identify the model # as a ER09. Likewise my ER1S (2010 Orient x STI Series 1 Ltd Ed). I'm not sure I'd worry about the first character.
> 
> 
> 
> charvelj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 
> I've read through that tutorial but I keep getting an error when using flickr as the host.
> 
> 
> 
> Flickr finally (finally!) implemented this. Click *Share this*, then select *HTML/BBcode*, click the BBcode radio button, and copy & paste the entire code into this message window. You can select the size of the "thumbnail" (posted image) in a drop down list, and it gives you an URL link to the Flickr post as a bonus. You can delete the URL tags (opening and closing, e.g. URL and /URL) if you select a big-sized image.
> 
> Here's an example from my album. If you click "Quote Reply" on my message, you can see the URL & IMG codes that you should be pasting in. You can delete everything after the /IMG /URL tags that Flickr gives you.
> 
> 
> 
> 09012010(001) by Korova Interociter, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> martinzx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try using
> 
> http://img594.imageshack.us
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No need, he can use Flickr.
Click to expand...

Thank you David and everyone who offered help...



DSCF2363 by charvelj, on Flickr



DSCF2365 by charvelj, on Flickr



DSCF2367 by charvelj, on Flickr



DSCF2366 by charvelj, on Flickr


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## jasonm

You'll be fine, Skywatches are a reputable dealer.....


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## charvelj

jasonm said:


> You'll be fine, Skywatches are a reputable dealer.....


Have you dealt with them ?

I'm concerned about the model number as I cannot find any reference to an Orient watch with the FEM number.

I think I'll fire an email off to Orient.


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## jasonm

Sounds like you should to satisfy your worry, but Im sure it will work out fine.....


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## Chromejob

Knock yerself out buddy. Looks bona fide to me. See that little Orient holographic sticker on the caseback. Mm-hm. That might be a clue. 

Besides ... who would fake an Orient?

BTW, the ones on offer here don't have a sapphire crystal to my knowledge, so I'm a little envious.


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## charvelj

Thanks guys........

I am feeling a little better about my purchase.


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## charvelj

Sorry to be a pain guys...... But, I've just inspected the watch again and find that there seems to be a lot of lateral movement in the bezel.

If I hold the bezel at 3 and 9 o'clock it will move from side to side with a loud click. It seems like the bezel is too big for the watch and there is a slight gap between the crystal and bezel.

You can see it in the video linked below.


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## Fray Bentos

Hi,

The watch looks totally fine and bona fide. The few new Orients I have had have matched with the hologram, however, yes, there does in your video seem to be some play matched with an annoying click in the lateral movement of the bezel. Now you know this is there and makes that noise, you wont feel the same about the watch and you will be tempted to keep clicking it and in the worst case, take the bezel off and try to fix it...dont. Get it returned for an exchange or to totally satisfy your mind, a refund and look elsewhere. That said, I've heard good reports about Skywatches too.

There are many finite changes in numbering and lettering of more or less exactly the same models due to the final or targeted selling destinations.

Nice sapphire crystal model though.

Hope this helps,

Rich


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## charvelj

Fray Bentos said:


> Hi,
> 
> The watch looks totally fine and bona fide. The few new Orients I have had have matched with the hologram, however, yes, there does in your video seem to be some play matched with an annoying click in the lateral movement of the bezel. Now you know this is there and makes that noise, you wont feel the same about the watch and you will be tempted to keep clicking it and in the worst case, take the bezel off and try to fix it...dont. Get it returned for an exchange or to totally satisfy your mind, a refund and look elsewhere. That said, I've heard good reports about Skywatches too.
> 
> There are many finite changes in numbering and lettering of more or less exactly the same models due to the final or targeted selling destinations.
> 
> Nice sapphire crystal model though.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Rich


Thanks Rich.

I have contacted Orient regarding the model number although I am reasonably satisfied that the watch is original. You are right about the click starting to annoy me.

I'll just have to see how good the Skywatches return policy is. Hopefully all the good reports I've heard about them are true.


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## Haggis

David Spalding said:


> Knock yerself out buddy. Looks bona fide to me. See that little Orient holographic sticker on the caseback. Mm-hm. That might be a clue.
> 
> Besides ... who would fake an Orient?
> 
> BTW, the ones on offer here don't have a sapphire crystal to my knowledge, so I'm a little envious.


I have seen a Seiko5 copy so Orient is possible, but this watch looks okay, enjoy. :thumbsup:


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## charvelj

Haggis said:


> David Spalding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Knock yerself out buddy. Looks bona fide to me. See that little Orient holographic sticker on the caseback. Mm-hm. That might be a clue.
> 
> Besides ... who would fake an Orient?
> 
> BTW, the ones on offer here don't have a sapphire crystal to my knowledge, so I'm a little envious.
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen a Seiko5 copy so Orient is possible, but this watch looks okay, enjoy. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

When I get it sorted I'm sure I will enjoy.......... Thank you Haggis.


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## charvelj

I thought I would keep this in an open forum so people can judge if a dealer is being fair with a customer.

I have opened a Paypal dispute as I was not getting any positive response from the seller.

From the Buyer

The watch was received well packaged and within the time scale expected. I believe the watch to be slightly faulty, graded goods.

The bezel is loose and moves from side to side with a audible click.

It feels as if the bezel is too large for the watch.

From Seller - Time Corporation31/10/2010 20:55 PDT

As per our emails, we've stated Orient diver model that is between US$90 to US$200 had this type of bezel noise and that is normal

I do agree that there are different grade of orient watches depending on the price range

You are getting a authentic Orient watch and that is for sure

You can send the watch back to us for an exchange for a better Orient model (at your shipping expenses) as we assure you that this Orient watch is a genuine Orient.

Do you guys think this is reasonable on behalf of the seller ?


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## Fray Bentos

$90 to $200 - roughly up to Â£125 then, for that I'd expect a non rattling bezel!!

'we've stated Orient diver model that is between US$90 to US$200 had this type of bezel noise and that is normal'

If thats normal, then they should advertise the fact, that watches between $90 and $200 will have rattling bezels, but of course they wont, they wont sell any. Its obvioulsy one thats slipped through the 'quality control'. Return it, and if trust in the company has been undermined, get a refund.

That said, returning abroad, the postage and insurance can begin to bite into any 'worthwhile' factor (depending what you paid), still if the watch is defective, the selling company should at least absorb your postage costs, surely?

However, with what has been said with it being 'normal' (I didnt even get that wobble with new Â£40 Alpha :thumbsup: )I'd ask for a refund and try elsewhere.

Still, your decision, hope its given you some more ideas to chew over.

Cheers, Rich


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## squareleg

Check out the "Distance Selling Directive" (I think it's called)... if I'm right, they are obliged to exchange or refund within a specified time period. This directive has been brought in specifically to deal with purchases made on the internet. Any reputable seller should abide by its rules. Hth.

PS - If anyone can add any extra info about this directive, that would be great.

Edit:  top two hits here look helpful.

My link

.


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## charvelj

I was considering lifting my Paypal dispute with the seller, but have decided not to as this is my only form of insurance.

I have informed the seller that I am discussing this on an open forum, and invited him to read the threads.

I am not happy about the seller wanting me to bear the cost of shipping when he supplied faulty goods.

If I had received a watch of acceptable standard, I would not be in this position. Trust only seems to run one way with some traders.

I received this reply from Orient.......

We received your e-mail dated 30th October, 2010.

Thank you very much for you're choosing our Orient Automatic ER00 in this time.

About the model No., it has some information for the production.

Actually, the 1st and 10th digit are our confidence due to the control of our production.

It means "CER00007B0" and "FER00007B0" are exactly same model, we call "ER00007B"officially.

With reference to the model "ER00007B", it is our product and should be a genuine watch.

So, we would like you to not care about the first digit of the model No. in this time.

For your reference, we send the photo of ER00007B just in case.

And, as for the crown, it does not have our emblem on it.

Please feel free to contact us if you have any further questions.

May your ORIENT watch would keep telling you good time for further years.

Thank you very much and best regards.

Orient Watch Co., Ltd.

Tokyo, Japan

Customer Relations

I have thanked them for their reply and requested they view the video and comment if the loose bezel is normal in a watch of that quality.

That's me just about up to date...


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## Chromejob

I think you were premature in raising a dispute as they have responded "positively" to your complaint, it simply wasn't the response you wanted.

As a baseline, they should be able to replace the unused, unworn (ahem) watch for a direct replacement with one of the same model that does not have this fault. Their claim that "loose bezels are normal" is daft. You might have to pony up the shipping expense for returning the item, but they should not charge you shipping on a replacement.

Regardless, if you opened a Paypal dispute, that generally indicates (to a creditor) that you want a refund. Be prepared to ship the watch back to them in all original packaging at your expense (be sure you insure and get delivery confirmation, if not signed delivery record) to get your refund. The seller, at this point, may ONLY offer you a refund since you've opened a payment dispute.

Their offer of only a credit, to be used for a more expensive watch, is a redirect, and I wouldn't accept that. The issue isn't wanting a more expensive watch, but expecting the watch you ordered new, in good working order. I presume they included a signed and/or stamped warranty card in the box.

For now, box it up and stop playing with it. Any further attempts to "fix" it could be seen as customer damage, and void their after-sales service.

Of course, if they refuse to provide warranty coverage, I'd complain to directly Orient. Orient might do a replacement, in which ... your shipping expense to Japan might be more? 

Bottom line, try to work with the seller REASONABLY, don't ask for the moon, don't make accusations you can't back up (e.g. I think you sold me a fake). Voice of experience here, I've been down this road many times, sometimes with sellers/manufacturers who weren't playing fair, sometimes when I was in the wrong.


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## charvelj

David Spalding said:


> I think you were premature in raising a dispute as they have responded "positively" to your complaint, it simply wasn't the response you wanted.
> 
> As a baseline, they should be able to replace the unused, unworn (ahem) watch for a direct replacement with one of the same model that does not have this fault. Their claim that "loose bezels are normal" is daft. You might have to pony up the shipping expense for returning the item, but they should not charge you shipping on a replacement.
> 
> Regardless, if you opened a Paypal dispute, that generally indicates (to a creditor) that you want a refund. Be prepared to ship the watch back to them in all original packaging at your expense (be sure you insure and get delivery confirmation, if not signed delivery record) to get your refund. The seller, at this point, may ONLY offer you a refund since you've opened a payment dispute.
> 
> Their offer of only a credit, to be used for a more expensive watch, is a redirect, and I wouldn't accept that. The issue isn't wanting a more expensive watch, but expecting the watch you ordered new, in good working order. I presume they included a signed and/or stamped warranty card in the box.
> 
> For now, box it up and stop playing with it. Any further attempts to "fix" it could be seen as customer damage, and void their after-sales service.
> 
> Of course, if they refuse to provide warranty coverage, I'd complain to directly Orient. Orient might do a replacement, in which ... your shipping expense to Japan might be more?
> 
> Bottom line, try to work with the seller REASONABLY, don't ask for the moon, don't make accusations you can't back up (e.g. I think you sold me a fake). Voice of experience here, I've been down this road many times, sometimes with sellers/manufacturers who weren't playing fair, sometimes when I was in the wrong.


I think I have been reasonable. The seller stated that the watch was genuine as he only sells 'genuine watches'. I asked the question because the model number did not match the number I ordered. I am now happy with the authenticity as explained by Orient. The seller says on his page that the watch comes with warranty card, box and user instructions. The warranty card/booklet is not signed or dated and I did not receive the user instructions. I would be happy for the seller to replace the watch, like for like, but he has not offered this. Only an upgrade, and at further expense to me. The best that could happen is that the seller resolves the matter by supplying the watch that I thought I had ordered. The worst, I end up keeping this watch because he is unreasonable. At least people will be able to read this thread and come to their own conclusion of what the outcome should have been.


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## Chromejob

You have to be reasonable. You accused the seller of selling a fake because the part # wasn't exactly what you found elswhere. That turned out to be erroneous -- but that wasn't the seller's fault, eh?

As for instructions, you can download them from Orient's site.

The seller hasn't offered you a direct replacement, and you're sulking about it -- don't, just tell the seller you want a warranty replacement of the same watch. Period. Full stop.

There are "I got robbed" stories all over the Internet, your's isn't unique. The seller will probably continue selling watches. Live with it. But definitely get a replacement for the watch or a refund upon return of the faulty one. Worthwhile lessons, these. :cheers:


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## charvelj

This is the reply I received from the seller......

From Seller - Time Corporation01/11/2010 16:40 PDT

I am willing to offer a refund of US$10 although it not my fault or if you are unhappy may want to send back the watch in it original condition and I will refund you less any shipping fees if there is but the item must be in the same condition Thanks

No offer of a direct replacement.

Orient reply to the video.

We received your e-mail dated 1st November, 2010.

Thank you very much for your inquiry about our Orient Automatic ER00 again.

We watched your informed website, however, it is difficult to tell you with this information only whether the bezel is normal, or not.

In this case, we recommend to make a contact with our authorized service center in your country, and show them your watch.

We think this is the best way to solve your question. Please refer to our website and find a service center in your country.

http://www.orient-watch.com/support/service.html

Thank you very much and best regards.

Orient Watch Co., Ltd.

Tokyo, Japan

Customer Relations

They do not have a service centre in the UK.

My options now are.

Accept the sellers offer.

Send the watch back to the seller (at a cost to me) and allow him to sell this watch on to some other unsuspecting customer.

Send the watch to a european authorised dealer for inspection (again at my expense).

Raise the Paypal dispute to a claim.

It's not a lot of money involved. But I thought the customer service would have been at a reasonable level.

At no time did the seller offer to exchange the watch for the same model. I have no problem retuning the watch to him at my expense, but if it was found to be faulty, I would expect him to reimburse the shipping. He offers free shipping as standard. I chose to pay for a slightly faster shipping. He also offers 5% Paypal discount which I did not take advantage of.

Yes he will continue to sell watches...... But I will never purchase one from him.

Very disappointing


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## charvelj

I did my research on Skywatches. I read all the reviews............ 'Watch received in great time and in great condition'......etc, Well mine must have been the one that bucked the trend. It was received in good time, but not in perfect condition.

Heres a solution that won't happen.

The seller sends me a replacement watch and when I'm satisfied I return the faulty one at my expense. I trusted him with my payment before delivery !

Think about it..............


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## martinzx

charvelj said:


> I did my research on Skywatches. I read all the reviews............ 'Watch received in great time and in great condition'......etc,Â Â Well mine must have been the one that bucked the trend. It was received in good time, but not in perfect condition.
> 
> Heres a solution that won't happen.Â Â Â Â Â Â
> 
> The seller sends me a replacement watch and when I'm satisfied I return the faulty one at my expense. I trusted him with my payment before delivery !
> 
> Think about it..............


True it will not happen like that, get over it & move on.............................


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## jasonm

David is right, chill out a bit, the seller is working with you here,



> he seller sends me a replacement watch and when I'm satisfied I return the faulty one at my expense. I trusted him with my payment before delivery !


Never going to happen, you think about it,

I also would hazard a guess that that bezel movement is probably going to be typical of this model at this price point.... Without ever having tried others of the same you cant say for sure its not as it should be, I wouldnt be happy with it either but you cant say that its not perfect, they might all be like this.... They might not be either, you just dont know.



> The best that could happen is that the seller resolves the matter by supplying the watch that I thought I had ordered


You have got the watch you ordered, why cant you get over this?

What exactly have you asked for from the seller? All you have posted are their replies......



> I would be happy for the seller to replace the watch, like for like, but he has not offered this. Only an upgrade, and at further expense to me


They have offered you this upgrade path as they have identified from your email that the bezel play is not acceptable to you, they have said that this play is normal at this price point and grade and so to solve this issue you must upgrade to the next level, this is how I read the communications as I see it.....


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## pg tips

:swoon:


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## howie77

Guys I'm with charvelj on this - it actually prompted me to go and check my SKX011 and 7002, and neither have any play in the bezel.

I think Rich sums it up.



Fray Bentos said:


> $90 to $200 - roughly up to Â£125 then, for that I'd expect a non rattling bezel!!
> 
> 'we've stated Orient diver model that is between US$90 to US$200 had this type of bezel noise and that is normal'
> 
> If thats normal, then they should advertise the fact, that watches between $90 and $200 will have rattling bezels, but of course they wont, they wont sell any. Its obvioulsy one thats slipped through the 'quality control'. Return it, and if trust in the company has been undermined, get a refund.
> 
> That said, returning abroad, the postage and insurance can begin to bite into any 'worthwhile' factor (depending what you paid), still if the watch is defective, the selling company should at least absorb your postage costs, surely?
> 
> However, with what has been said with it being 'normal' (I didnt even get that wobble with new Â£40 Alpha :thumbsup: )I'd ask for a refund and try elsewhere.


The sellers concession to a $10 refund might suggest some degree of flexibility but on the other hand could be a token attempt at brushing you off. I would be unhappy myself at having to stump up return postage charges, but it may be necessary. I am uncertain whether a Singapore based seller is under any obligation to abide by any Distance Selling Regulation as imposed by the EU. None of which looks particularly good, I'm afraid, but whatever you do, do not as Rich also rightly advised make any attempt out of curiosity or exasperation to remove that bezel yourself!



jasonm said:


> I also would hazard a guess that that bezel movement is probably going to be typical of this model at this price point.... Without ever having tried others of the same you cant say for sure its not as it should be, I wouldnt be happy with it either but you cant say that its not perfect, they might all be like this.... They might not be either, you just dont know.


It simply isn't good enough in my book in a brand new watch and I would have expected better from Orient.

Trouble is, you won't be able to live with it now and it is a blight on what should be the enthralling experience of receiving a new watch. Get it sent back and get a refund. It might cost you a tenner or so but in the long run you'll have preferred the small outlay rather than having kept a watch sitting around that you can't bring yourself to wear. I know, been there.

Give Skywatches one more firm but friendly push (don't over do either!), and try your luck. The loose bezel is a definite quality issue. At the very least if you have to pay return postage, you are after a refund plus shipping cost that you paid to have it delivered in the first place.


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## jasonm

> It simply isn't good enough in my book in a brand new watch and I would have expected better from Orient.


Im not suggesting it is right, Im suggesting it maybe normal for this particular model. I dont see what relevance trying the Seikos would have to this case really....

I remember when I first unscrewed the crown on a Vostok Amphibia, the wobbly stem and crown made me think it was broken, it wasnt , they are all like that and people accept it.... My point is we just dont know if they are all like that or if it is a fault... The seller says they are all like that, they now have to prove it by sending the buyer another to compare.

I suggest the buyer specifically asks for a replacement watch to compare, he wont get that until he sends it back, until that happens we just dont know.


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## charvelj

Thank you all for your suggestions.

I have decided to take the watch into a local watch repairer for him to give it an appraisal.

If it's a simple repair I will ask for a costing and then ask the seller to refund the cost of the repair.

I think this is a reasonable course of action. I have no intention of attempting it myself.

The bezel will rotate normally when pushed to either side. Very strange.

If you own an Orient diver will you please check your bezel for movement just to see if this is a common trait of Orient watches in that price bracket.


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## jasonm

If you get it looked at and repaired by anyone else you wont get anything back from the seller.....

You may think this is reasonable but they wont.....

The second you have it looked at or adjusted or worked on by anyone else you accept the watch as yours with no recourse to the seller, the warranty will be void......

This is the same for any goods you buy anywhere, why would it be different for watches?

Just some advice......


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## charvelj

jasonm said:


> If you get it looked at and repaired by anyone else you wont get anything back from the seller.....
> 
> You may think this is reasonable but they wont.....
> 
> The second you have it looked at or adjusted or worked on by anyone else you accept the watch as yours with no recourse to the seller, the warranty will be void......
> 
> This is the same for any goods you buy anywhere, why would it be different for watches?
> 
> Just some advice......


Good point.......... Thank you.


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## howie77

jasonm said:


> It simply isn't good enough in my book in a brand new watch and I would have expected better from Orient.
> 
> 
> 
> Im not suggesting it is right, Im suggesting it maybe normal for this particular model. I dont see what relevance trying the Seikos would have to this case really....
> 
> I remember when I first unscrewed the crown on a Vostok Amphibia, the wobbly stem and crown made me think it was broken, it wasnt , they are all like that and people accept it.... My point is we just dont know if they are all like that or if it is a fault... The seller says they are all like that, they now have to prove it by sending the buyer another to compare.
> 
> I suggest the buyer specifically asks for a replacement watch to compare, he wont get that until he sends it back, until that happens we just dont know.
Click to expand...

If I sounded a tad off, it wasn't meant Jase (apologies..), I just empathise with the OP. I would be disappointed if that was a common trait in this model and I'd picked one up unawares, but like you say impossible to gauge without comparison.



charvelj said:


> Thank you all for your suggestions.
> 
> I have decided to take the watch into a local watch repairer for him to give it an appraisal.
> 
> If it's a simple repair I will ask for a costing and then ask the seller to refund the cost of the repair.
> 
> I think this is a reasonable course of action. I have no intention of attempting it myself.
> 
> The bezel will rotate normally when pushed to either side. Very strange.
> 
> If you own an Orient diver will you please check your bezel for movement just to see if this is a common trait of Orient watches in that price bracket.


I would perhaps see if anyone else in ownership of same/similar Orient - they're must be a few here - has the same issue. Then you'd be better informed.

Have to say if your watchmaker makes any adjustment, your stuck with it, that'll be the warranty up the swanny. Seriously, wait for someone to respond or post a new thread asking somebody to test theirs first. Sky Watches are very unlikely to pay for works carried out - I'd treat this as a last resort.



jasonm said:


> The seller says they are all like that, they now have to prove it by sending the buyer another to compare.
> 
> I suggest the buyer specifically asks for a replacement watch to compare, he wont get that until he sends it back, until that happens we just dont know.


This is your best bet - put the request to them and see what they say before committing yourself to anything more permanent!

edit: missed Jasons post @37 .. too busy typing, but that is exactly the point. Spot on


----------



## charvelj

howie77 said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It simply isn't good enough in my book in a brand new watch and I would have expected better from Orient.
> 
> 
> 
> Im not suggesting it is right, Im suggesting it maybe normal for this particular model. I dont see what relevance trying the Seikos would have to this case really....
> 
> I remember when I first unscrewed the crown on a Vostok Amphibia, the wobbly stem and crown made me think it was broken, it wasnt , they are all like that and people accept it.... My point is we just dont know if they are all like that or if it is a fault... The seller says they are all like that, they now have to prove it by sending the buyer another to compare.
> 
> I suggest the buyer specifically asks for a replacement watch to compare, he wont get that until he sends it back, until that happens we just dont know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I sounded a tad off, it wasn't meant Jase (apologies..), I just empathise with the OP. I would be disappointed if that was a common trait in this model and I'd picked one up unawares, but like you say impossible to gauge without comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> charvelj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you all for your suggestions.
> 
> I have decided to take the watch into a local watch repairer for him to give it an appraisal.
> 
> If it's a simple repair I will ask for a costing and then ask the seller to refund the cost of the repair.
> 
> I think this is a reasonable course of action. I have no intention of attempting it myself.
> 
> The bezel will rotate normally when pushed to either side. Very strange.
> 
> If you own an Orient diver will you please check your bezel for movement just to see if this is a common trait of Orient watches in that price bracket.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would perhaps see if anyone else in ownership of same/similar Orient - they're must be a few here - has the same issue. Then you'd be better informed.
> 
> Have to say if your watchmaker makes any adjustment, your stuck with it, that'll be the warranty up the swanny. Seriously, wait for someone to respond or post a new thread asking somebody to test theirs first. Sky Watches are very unlikely to pay for works carried out - I'd treat this as a last resort.
> 
> 
> 
> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> The seller says they are all like that, they now have to prove it by sending the buyer another to compare.
> 
> I suggest the buyer specifically asks for a replacement watch to compare, he wont get that until he sends it back, until that happens we just dont know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is your best bet - put the request to them and see what they say before committing yourself to anything more permanent!
> 
> edit: missed Jasons post @37 .. too busy typing, but that is exactly the point. Spot on
Click to expand...

Once again thank you for your input..


----------



## Chromejob

charvelj said:


> This is the reply I received from the seller......
> 
> From Seller - Time Corporation01/11/2010 16:40 PDT
> 
> I am willing to offer a refund of US$10 although it not my fault or if you are unhappy may want to send back the watch in it original condition and I will refund you less any shipping fees if there is but the item must be in the same condition Thanks
> 
> *No offer of a direct replacement.*


Two words for you ... WHO CARES? Tell them what YOU want. A new-condition watch. Ask for a replacement of the same watch you bought, upon return of your original. Or ... take them up on the full refund of purchase price (before taxes and shipping) offer (on return of watch), and buy a new one from him, or from someone else.

I don't see what's so hard to grasp here ... unless your aim is to be a problematic customer.



howie77 said:


> Guys I'm with charvelj on this - it actually prompted me to go and check my SKX011 and 7002, and neither have any play in the bezel.


He bought an Orient, not a Seiko. I my two Seiko divers' bezels are rock solid, but I've a couple of O&Ws with slightly loose bezels. It varies from case to case, maker to maker.



charvelj said:


> Thank you all for your suggestions.
> 
> I have decided to take the watch into a local watch repairer for him to give it an appraisal.
> 
> If it's a simple repair I will ask for a costing and then ask the seller to refund the cost of the repair.


This is a non-starter. The seller already (apparently, by your report) offered $10 refund to cover the discrepancy. There's your budget for local repairs. I'd go for full replacement.[1]



charvelj said:


> If you own an Orient diver will you please check your bezel for movement just to see if this is a common trait of Orient watches in that price bracket.


Ask this on Watchuseek's Orient forum, too. Lots of Orient Diver aficionados there. 

[1] Reason for this: a 2ER seller on eBay is advertising a "new with tags" watch ... clearly missing the bezel pearl and with scratches on the bezel. Clearly, some sellers are reselling returned watches. Asking this seller for a "new, unused watch" makes clear your expectation.

I'm with Jason, asking for a direct replacement may satisfy our young padawan if these are all like this. Sometimes, maybe sometimes, the seller will even take a few mins to personally check the replacement going out to ensure it's in top shape. But if confidence in a seller is declining, refund is the way to go.


----------



## charvelj

A better video of the problem if anyone is interested....


----------



## charvelj

Recent replies from the seller.

From Buyer - 03/11/2010 00:18 PDT

What do you propose to send me in return ? I want the watch I originally ordered CER00007B. Are you willing to cover the shipping cost completely ?

I am very disappointed in your response to this problem after all the good reviews I have read about you.

From Seller - Time Corporation03/11/2010 03:52 PDT

You know that there's nothing wrong with the watch. We will pay for the reship fee by registered mail once we've received the return watch and you need to pay for the return shipping. Please note that the watch's bezel will still produce the same clicking sound even if we exchange it. Here's solution for the softer sound of the clicking bezel, you put some little oil in better the bezel's gap.

From Buyer - 03/11/2010 04:34 PDT

The watch clicks as normal when you turn the bezel. That is not what I am complaining about. You can move the bezel from side to side with a loud click also. It may be that the bezel is not set correctly. I have never owned a watch that does this. I will email you a better video to show you exactly what I mean.


----------



## BondandBigM

Sounds to me that you have got pretty much what you paid for. A cheapish or depending on how you look at it maybe not so cheap look a likey .


----------



## charvelj

BondandBigM said:


> Sounds to me that you have got pretty much what you paid for. A cheapish or depending on how you look at it maybe not so cheap look a likey .


Touche........


----------



## Chromejob

charvelj said:


> A better video of the problem if anyone is interested....


That's IT? The big, sliding bezel in that video?

Son, you need a reality check. I've got two O&Ws that do that, they cost easily twice what you paid for your CER00, just no click. Bezels are moving parts, there may be some minor play in the bezel. (Granted that mine are used.)

As for the gap, I think I've got three divers with small "gaps" around the edge of the bezel and the crystal. Again ... "moving part" ... "stationary part" ... there has to be a little space -- oh, and on some divers, it has nothing to do with water resistance. Let me see if I can give you comparative examples (look for the gaps):






























> .. We will pay for the reship fee by registered mail once we've received the return watch and you need to pay for the return shipping....


This is a *very reasonable offer*, I strongly suggest you take them up on it (very, very few sellers will cover return postage on something that is not defective, in fact, I only know of three) and be happy with your $150 watch. If not ... return for refund and spend more money on a finer watch ... and don't come back here claiming it's a fake because you can find one infinitesimal fault with it.


----------



## charvelj

David Spalding said:


> charvelj said:
> 
> 
> 
> A better video of the problem if anyone is interested....
> 
> 
> 
> That's IT? The big, sliding bezel in that video?
> 
> Son, you need a reality check. I've got two O&Ws that do that, they cost easily twice what you paid for your CER00, just no click. Bezels are moving parts, there may be some minor play in the bezel. (Granted that mine are used.)
> 
> As for the gap, I think I've got three divers with small "gaps" around the edge of the bezel and the crystal. Again ... "moving part" ... "stationary part" ... there has to be a little space -- oh, and on some divers, it has nothing to do with water resistance. Let me see if I can give you comparative examples (look for the gaps):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .. We will pay for the reship fee by registered mail once we've received the return watch and you need to pay for the return shipping....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a *very reasonable offer*, I strongly suggest you take them up on it (very, very few sellers will cover return postage on something that is not defective, in fact, I only know of three) and be happy with your $150 watch. If not ... return for refund and spend more money on a finer watch ... and don't come back here claiming it's a fake because you can find one infinitesimal fault with it.
Click to expand...

I questioned the Model number of the watch and have now stated on numerous occasions that I am happy with the authenticity of the watch. Even if the watch has cost Â£1 or Â£10,000 the same would have applied. There has not been one person who owns a Orient diver post on here that they have the same bezel action. This may be an expensive watch to me !

I find the way you come across as very condescending. I will decide what I am happy with.


----------



## martinzx

charvelj said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds to me that you have got pretty much what you paid for. A cheapish or depending on how you look at it maybe not so cheap look a likey .Â Â
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Touche........
Click to expand...

It seems you who are touchy......... I looked at the video, no big deal, I also think the seller is being very reasonable IMHO................................

Good luck


----------



## Chromejob

BondandBigM said:


> Sounds to me that you have got pretty much what you paid for. A cheapish or depending on how you look at it maybe not so cheap look a likey .


Cheeky bum. :drinks: But not really relevant. $150 to one fellow might be $5000 to you. But what I think we have here is a case of buyer's remorse, dressed as disappointment, disbelief, or just plain discombobulated. Nice watch, judging from the last video. I was thinking of getting a CER00 from the US seller, but the sapphire crystal has me reconsidering. :think:



martinzx said:


> charvelj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Touche........
> 
> 
> 
> It seems you who are touchy....
Click to expand...

Ahem. I think he meant...












charvelj said:


> I find the way you come across as very condescending. I will decide what I am happy with.


You bet I am. :thumbsup:

The seller has already offered you a replacement offer, and still you're arguing about the "loose bezel." A few more posts of your back and forth with this seller, and I'm calling the waambulance. :dummyspit:


----------



## watchking1

:bull*******: :bull*******: :bull*******:


----------



## charvelj

David. I think I should ignore you now, as you are not telling me what I want to hear.............

Joking aside. Regardless of the outcome of my dispute with the seller. Not one of the hundreds of Orient diver owners that must frequent this forum, have come back and said 'yes, I have exactly the same action with my bezel' Or a similar problem. I'll assume that it is not normal for Orient bezels to perform this way

I'll repeat...... Not one person reporting the same.


----------



## martinzx

charvelj said:


> David.Â Â I think I should ignore you now, as you are not telling me what I want to hear.............
> 
> Joking aside.Â Â Regardless of the outcome of my dispute with the seller. Not one of the hundreds of Orient diver owners that must frequent this forum, have come back and said 'yes, I have exactly the same action with my bezel' Or a similar problem. I'll assume that it is not normal for Orient bezels to perform this way
> 
> I'll repeat...... Not one person reporting the same.


Mayve none of them have the same watch, the seller says these models are all like that, he has experience of this watch & a great reputation here amoungst buyers, I do hope you resolve the issue so that you are happy, but I think the seller has been very reasonable, IMHO

good luck Martin


----------



## jasonm

martinzx said:


> charvelj said:
> 
> 
> 
> David.Â Â I think I should ignore you now, as you are not telling me what I want to hear.............
> 
> Joking aside.Â Â Regardless of the outcome of my dispute with the seller. Not one of the hundreds of Orient diver owners that must frequent this forum, have come back and said 'yes, I have exactly the same action with my bezel' Or a similar problem. I'll assume that it is not normal for Orient bezels to perform this way
> 
> I'll repeat...... Not one person reporting the same.
> 
> 
> 
> Mayve none of them have the same watch, the seller says these models are all like that, he has experience of this watch & a great reputation here amoungst buyers, I do hope you resolve the issue so that you are happy, but I think the seller has been very reasonable, IMHO
> 
> good luck Martin
Click to expand...

Absolutely, you cant assume all Orient bezels are the same, this is a specific model and they wont all be the same, that is why no one has commented as we know it would be pointless unless we have exactly the same watch. In fact in your earlier posts you have ascertained that there are different grades of Orient, after looking at your last video, Im going to say that that is normal, like David says, bezels are moving parts, there needs to be a little play or it wouldnt turn. The best judge of the bezels action would be the seller, they must see hundreds and are likely to know what they are talking about, dont forget that the internet watch community is relatively small, retailers work on small margins and internet reputation means everything, they would not be giving you the runaround and risking their rep for a $150 watch, why not accept what they say?

Your watch is authentic, and works properly by the look of it, unless you have a wide experience of divers ( like most of us here do ) then your in no position to judge its not correct. Im afraid you have come here for advice and you have it, Use it or not. Im impressed by the seller keeping their cool and have behaved as per their excellent reputation.

Good luck.


----------



## mach 0.0013137

I`ve only just noticed this thread so I`m a bit late commenting however I owned a couple of Orient `subs` & while they were very good the build quality wasn`t up to the other six Orients I own also the bezel on one was a little sloppy compared to the other. BTW both were bought from a reputable UK based seller.


----------



## pg tips

WoW Mr Spalding :notworthy: "discombobulated" gotta be the 1st use of that word on forum (I think confused is simple enough though?)

Orients are not huge sellers esp in the UK and the chances of anyone having that exact model here are pretty remote. Have you looked for dedicated Orient forums esp USA ones and asked there?

To me that watch looks lovely and that tiny float in the bezel movement would not worry me one iota. If it was a 5 grand watch then that would be different.

Knowing someone who runs an internet retail site I can understand why the seller might be getting a tad "cheesed off" by now, I think he's been more than reasonable.


----------



## Chromejob

I've posited the OP's concerns on WUS -- for my own edification -- and I'll copy here if I get any relevant replies.



charvelj said:


> David. I think I should ignore you now, as you are not telling me what I want to hear.............
> 
> Joking aside. Regardless of the outcome of my dispute with the seller. Not one of the hundreds of Orient diver owners that must frequent this forum, have come back and said 'yes, I have exactly the same action with my bezel' Or a similar problem. I'll assume that it is not normal for Orient bezels to perform this way
> 
> I'll repeat...... Not one person reporting the same.


Fair response. I'm being hard on you because you've come here asking for advice, and you're posting repeated assertions of what you think is wrong about the watch. Which, and responses seem to bear me out, is not necessarily a reasonable expectation of a $150 watch. I've been in the same position myself, have had to alter my thinking based on others' input, and think you ought to reconsider your gripe with the seller. They could decide that their reputation can withstand one or two disgruntled consumers and blow you off.

The fact that no one here has confirmed or denied your problem is irrelevant. Search in my "R**** homages" thread to see who posted having a Orient ER00, I thought someone did. Not "hundreds of Orient diver owners that must frequent this forum." Maybe one person. But the lack of responses could also indicate that this thread is being ignored by all but a few of the users (not everybody is into Japanese watches, on a British forum, imagine that).

Anyway,* you have a valid offer from the seller*, I think you should take them up on it if only to get another shot at a new, pristine watch, and be prepared to discover that the seller is correct, the ER00 line has a little play in the bezel. Pony up a few bucks for return postage and hope the next one has a tighter bezel on it.



pg tips said:


> WoW Mr Spalding :notworthy: "discombobulated" gotta be the 1st use of that word on forum (I think confused is simple enough though?)


I was aiming for alliteration. You have to admit, I'm high-hatting a bit in this thread.


----------



## charvelj

The final action............

From Buyer - 04/11/2010 23:45 PDT

How do we resolve this ? I have no confidence in you to do the right thing. I do not have a warranty as I have not bought from an authorised dealer. I am not willing to send the watch back to you because the trust is no longer there. What do you suggest ? I will close this dispute as we are getting nowhere. I still think this is not normal for a watch of this quality. You feel it is as it should be. I will never buy another watch from you but, I suppose you would never want to sell me another...... I am sorry that it turned out this way.

Regards.

Paul


----------



## martinzx

charvelj said:


> The final action............
> 
> From Buyer - 04/11/2010 23:45 PDT
> 
> How do we resolve this ? I have no confidence in you to do the right thing. I do not have a warranty as I have not bought from an authorised dealer. I am not willing to send the watch back to you because the trust is no longer there. What do you suggest ? I will close this dispute as we are getting nowhere. I still think this is not normal for a watch of this quality. You feel it is as it should be. I will never buy another watch from you but, I suppose you would never want to sell me another...... I am sorry that it turned out this way.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Paul


Wow............ harsh I think, I would not want to sell you another..................... :dummyspit:


----------



## pugster

you seem to be an expert yourself saying that this 'should not happen in a watch of this quality' , why bother asking here in the first place? , in all truth altho decent watches it is actually concidered a low tier watch against what is available on the market.


----------



## jasonm

Amazing...... :dntknw:

:doctor:

Quite a few contradictions to your relpy, you ask what do they suggest, they have already told you, your the one who wont send back the watch and are saying your closing the dispute!

You seem to be putting as many obstacles in the way as you can..... I cant work out what it is you want to happen, well I can, but its never going to work the way you expect.


----------



## charvelj

Wow.......... Abuse even after I conceded.


----------



## pg tips

Just been through some of my collection and I have a Citizen Promaster qtz diver and the bezel action is identical to that of your Orient. I've just googled and Amazon (uk) are currently selling them at Â£107 so roughly the same price point.

I don't think anyone is giving use abuse, I think most people are rather "gobsmacked"!


----------



## Chromejob

charvelj said:


> From Buyer - 04/11/2010 23:45 PDT
> 
> How do we resolve this ? I have no confidence in you to do the right thing. I do not have a warranty as I have not bought from an authorised dealer. I am not willing to send the watch back to you because the trust is no longer there. What do you suggest ? I will close this dispute as we are getting nowhere. I still think this is not normal for a watch of this quality. You feel it is as it should be. I will never buy another watch from you but, I suppose you would never want to sell me another...... I am sorry that it turned out this way.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Paul


Good frakking grief. :groan: You're being childish and petulant. You don't buy an entry level, mass produced Japanese watch and get handmade, perfectionist Swiss made artistry like you would with our host. You've asked for our opinions here, and received them. We offer no warranty on providing you what you want to hear.

Get over yourself, ask for an RMA (return merchandise authorization) number, send it signed or tracked delivery (always with merchandise, so you have a delivery record), and let them send you a new one. Or do same and ask for refund. You will not get compensated for the return shipping (certainly after repeated swipes at the seller's integrity), that's par for the course these days.


----------



## Robert

You should get a job as an awkward customer in roleplay training.

ps An option was simply to send the watch back and ask them to exchange it - there was never a need for all the protracted dialogue.


----------



## charvelj

Are we all done now ?

And I thought I had become a new member of a welcoming family...........

Thank you all for your input.

! :to_become_senile:


----------



## philgreen

there are some very rude memebers on this forum !


----------



## Chromejob

Robert said:


> An option was simply to send the watch back and ask them to exchange it - there was never a need for all the protracted dialogue.


:thumbup: :clapping: from this less-than-gracious family member.

FWIW, I searched on TZ-UK for mentions of this Orient Diver, and found nowt. Seems the UK importer of Orient favors the dressy/office type watches. Most diver owners have the Mako (their more poopular diver model).

Orient USA has a code, diver49, which discounts 49% on all the divers this week. (Not that special, they have other 50% off and 30% off plus free watch codes that have worked for months.) They don't have the ER00 with sapphire crystal, though.



philgreen said:


> there are some very rude memebers on this forum !


Welcome to the forums! :hypocrite:


----------



## charvelj

I'm actually wearing the watch now !

Phew!.......... Never thought i'd get to 50 posts....


----------



## martinzx

charvelj said:


> I'm actually wearing the watch now !
> 
> Phew!.......... Never thought i'd get to 50 posts....


There you go , you could always sell it now Â Â









BR Martin


----------



## Paul H.

Next time just buy a Timex from you local dept store and be happy!

Cheers Paul


----------



## charvelj

Believe it or not.... I bought it because I liked it :naughty:


----------



## Dusty

WOW so glad it wasn't a fake :groan:


----------



## charvelj

Dusty said:


> WOW so glad it wasn't a fake :groan:


So am I :victory:


----------



## Chromejob

Just for my own edification, I posted an inquiry over on WUS about bezels (a few hours before OP did, actually), and two separate users have confirmed having a little play in their bezel. In addition, this reviewer in 2008 mentioned a "bezel that feels slightly 'sloppy' in its movement...."

Houston, I don't think we have a problem (with OP's particular watch). Glad you didn't waste any more money sending back for a replacement that probably would've been the same.


----------



## charvelj

David Spalding said:


> Just for my own edification, I posted an inquiry over on WUS about bezels (a few hours before OP did, actually), and two separate users have confirmed having a little play in their bezel. In addition, this reviewer in 2008 mentioned a "bezel that feels slightly 'sloppy' in its movement...."
> 
> Houston, I don't think we have a problem (with OP's particular watch). Glad you didn't waste any more money sending back for a replacement that probably would've been the same.


I know you want it......But, you're not having the last word !

Why didn't you add that link to the review on the first page of this thread ?


----------



## BlueKnight

charvelj said:


> I know you want it......But, you're not having the last word !


The lighter side.


----------



## charvelj

B)


----------



## Chromejob

charvelj said:


> David Spalding said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just for my own edification, I posted an inquiry over on WUS about bezels (a few hours before OP did, actually), and two separate users have confirmed having a little play in their bezel. In addition, this reviewer in 2008 mentioned a "bezel that feels slightly 'sloppy' in its movement...."
> 
> Houston, I don't think we have a problem (with OP's particular watch). Glad you didn't waste any more money sending back for a replacement that probably would've been the same.
> 
> 
> 
> I know you want it......But, you're not having the last word !
> 
> Why didn't you add that link to the review on the first page of this thread ?
Click to expand...

Actually just trying to reassure you there's nothing wrong with your watch that isn't wrong with other owners'.

... Because I didn't know of the review at that time. Search on "ER00" there and you get no returns. Try it yourself. I just happened to peek into the usually very quiet reviews sub-forum today (first day off in 10), looking for something about the ER1S.

I'm fond of this cartoon, too.

This is not sarcasm you're reading. I was sincerely interested if there was a problem with bezels on the ER00 as I've added either of two models into my cart about a dozen times when I could get it for $88 or so. But the watch is only $120 on Amazon, so I kept telling myself, "Stick with the $400 models."


----------



## charvelj

I really am new to all this. I have never had an interest in watches before. The attraction is starting to grow quickly.

I do appreciate all the comments and advice that has been offered. I have learnt something.

Thank you all.


----------



## howie77

BlueKnight said:


> The lighter side.


Not adding to this any further, but had to say BlueKnight - what a find! If you don't mind I'd like to borrow this image... Fantastic mate.


----------



## Guest

There is a forum that has lots of information on Orient and other Japanese watches...orientalwatchsite.com

Orient watches have been subject to being copied, one thing to look out for is the crest at the 12:00 position (if it has one) as it should be clearly defined not like this one...


----------



## Chromejob

avidfan said:


> There is a forum that has lots of information on Orient and other Japanese watches...orientalwatchsite.com ...


Operated Puri-Time, aka Orient Watch USA. Marketing, mostly. The forums are primarily for support. You'll find more freewheeling info at WUS.


----------



## charvelj




----------



## Chromejob

OldeCrow, who does support for Orient USA in their own forums, had a good suggestion (link takes you off RLT forum).


----------



## charvelj

David Spalding said:


> OldeCrow, who does support for Orient USA in their own forums, had a good suggestion (link takes you off RLT forum).


I thank you for that information David. :notworthy:


----------



## demonloop

Just spent the last 15 mins reading this thread, don't know how I missed it before.

Unfortunately, the internet has bred this sort of 'customer'. As its so anonymous its amazing how many think they can take the pi$$

Classic case.

You'll also see a high correlation between awkward customers and the use of Paypal. They know the dispute system is done online, the same customer wouldn't dream of phoning their credit card company to start a chargeback claim. Having to speak to a human would be too much to handle.

You'll also find the same breed of customer won't ever want to discuss any problem on the phone, its email only.


----------



## demonloop

All of the above learnt from experience BTW


----------



## Guest

In before the lock.


----------



## levon2807

I have one piece of advice which covers this entire thing (including the inability to sell the watch which I think will arise).

Don't buy a cheap Orient!


----------



## charvelj

levon2807 said:


> I have one piece of advice which covers this entire thing (including the inability to sell the watch which I think will arise).
> 
> Don't buy a cheap Orient!


Very helpful........Thank you.

And, yes, it is making the sale of the watch difficult.


----------



## DWT/SUB

charvelj said:


> David. I think I should ignore you now, as you are not telling me what I want to hear.............
> 
> Joking aside. Regardless of the outcome of my dispute with the seller. Not one of the hundreds of Orient diver owners that must frequent this forum, have come back and said 'yes, I have exactly the same action with my bezel' Or a similar problem. I'll assume that it is not normal for Orient bezels to perform this way
> 
> I'll repeat...... Not one person reporting the same.


 I have this watch with loose bezel too. I think they some how installed mismarked o-rings in the production. I think maybe the the thickness and lubrication may have something to do with this, or the bezel spring. Did anybody ever resolve this problem?


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