# Any It Managers Out There?



## Barryboy (Mar 21, 2006)

Hi.. My 27 yr old son (joint honours graduate 2002 in English & Media) is having an awful career problem and seriously considering taking up IT training with Computeach or one of the other similar organisations in a bid to establish something like a decent career path. He is quite knowledgeable on IT/computing matters but not professional standard and I am sure he is capable of absorbing the coursework.

Now I have two questions in one... Do you think these courses (which are quite expensive, incidentally) are worth doing and secondly which area of IT is most in demand? On the first point I don't really want him to up up as a Â£14K person saying 'have you tried switching it off and the on again', as to me that's no improvement on his current job, and secondly I wouldn't like him to intensively train in an area where there are no job opportunities.

All advice most gratefully accepted. I will be posting this message across a few different forums that I log on to so if you see the same post alsewhere you will understand why.

Thanks in advance

Rob


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

I have no personal experience of Computeach specifically but it is my opinion that these commercial operations are more skilled at selling their courses than running them.

Before parting with any cash I'd recommend finding out what "qualification" is achieved at the end of a course - and indeed, if any employer places any value on it.

I would suggest there are better avenues such as NVQ or OU courses which not only will be a fraction of the price but will end up with a nationally recognised qualification.

Just my 2p


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

I'd agree  There is no subsitute for a "real" learning "on-site" so to speak, wouldn't he be better off taking a low paid IT job and learning? Surely that experience would be worth more to a future potential employer than a Computeach "qualification"?

I'd like to know what they teach that you could not learn from books at a fraction of the course cost.


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## b11ocx (Mar 19, 2008)

In fairness to them, and a mate is actually doing it against my original advice, they put a structure around learning which is useful to some.

Mate is doing C++, but had to start by doing an MCSE, and they provide a reasonable degree of technical assistance and support. They then help to place you in a role (usually at low pay) to gain experience.

My mate is currently working for a small company, only earning Â£16k, but is gaining experience while still completing his coursework.

The qualifications on offer are generally IT industry ones such as Microsoft, Cisco and the like, but as everyone has already said, unless you mix that with experience like my mate, they wont do you much good.

What I would say, is that your son could do a bootcamp version of the above type courses for a couple of thousand, and then offer to work for next to nothing to gain further experience for a year or so.


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Barryboy said:


> and secondly I wouldn't like him to intensively train in an area where there are no job opportunities.


Rob, I've worked in large corporate IT departments for the last 20 years and I finally left in June of this year. I was also a freelance IT consultant for 6 years in the mid 1990's. Over that time, there have been several "shifts" in the way major plcs approach IT...and therefore which IT roles are most in demand by large companies...

I think most of the previous posters have been referring to what I'd call desktop support (PCs essentially and the software that runs on them) and the training that various companies offer to covert an Asda shelf filler into a PC fixer. That's great if that's what your son wants to do and with nearly every household in the UK now owning a PC there must be a market for this...

...but I just want to make you aware of other IT roles that might be worth considering. Remember, you can either work for an IT company (Microsoft, Cisco, etc) or a company that uses IT (Barclays, GSK, etc) ; I've worked for both in the past but they are very different places --- I preferred working in an IT department of a large non-IT company.

But the latter has become a difficult place to survive due to cost saving measures like off-shoring and out-sourcing. The following are some IT roles that seemed relatively "safe" in the corporate I've just left. These are not easily off-shored to Bangalore in India

Business Analysts / Business Consultants

Project Management

Project Architecture / Technical Lead

Enterprise / Domain Architecture (my last role)

In my last company, the following internal IT roles have virtually disappeared, with redundancies, due to off-shoring and out-sourcing:

Software developer

Help desk / desktop support

Many infrastructure central service roles (server support, networking, etc)

<rant>

Obviously each company is different, and we have seen on TV that there is now a push to bring Call Centres back into the UK, but I've not yet seen any evidence of that with regard to IT services that have been off-shored. I find it very sad; my real love in IT was software development and business analysis --- working with a customer group to understand what they were trying to achieve or the question they were trying to answer *and* then developing a solution (usually an IT one) that fitted in with the overall strategy of the company....that "development" part started to move to India in about 2003...so no more hands-on development  . It's a mistake IMO, because you cannot have good project architects and technical leads unless they have come up through the ranks of software development...

</rant>

Hope this helps a little.


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## chris l (Aug 5, 2005)

*MCSE/MCSA* 'boot camp'.

A short duration course which results in you getting one of the best industry recognised starter qualifications.

I used to work here... ITS FEDA Training

and can thoroughly recommend their training courses, especially the rural residential ones.... Worked for me!

Plus two years experience...

Good luck to him.


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Im with Paul... not often I get to say that.  Paul and I have similar experience of the IT industry I think and Ive done most jobs in that realm. I think if your son is switched on and a fast learner then a Business Analayst is the way to go. Build that up to Project Management would be the way I would plan it. Right now we cant get good BAs at all in Sydney, but that will change as always. I could talk all day on these roles and how you might progress up through them as a career, but the reality is the industry changes a lot and you need to keep an eye out, but these BA and PM roles will always be key to sucess etc.


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## cookie520 (Jan 7, 2008)

JonW said:


> Im with Paul... not often I get to say that.  Paul and I have similar experience of the IT industry I think and Ive done most jobs in that realm. I think if your son is switched on and a fast learner then a Business Analayst is the way to go. Build that up to Project Management would be the way I would plan it. Right now we cant get good BAs at all in Sydney, but that will change as always. I could talk all day on these roles and how you might progress up through them as a career, but the reality is the industry changes a lot and you need to keep an eye out, but these BA and PM roles will always be key to sucess etc.


Think Jon's on the mark here - anything which bridges the business and IT and gets you close to real business needs is usually much higher value (and rarer) to source so tends to stay as an internal function. Anything at the delivery side of IT is becoming more commodity based so less value imho.

A number of firms will take bright talent and develop them so I wouldn't go much further than looking at the introduction (foundation) courses on things like "managing successful programmes MSP) or PRINCE2 (PM methodology) just to show a solid understanding of the principles.

I've assumed we are talking UK here where OGC methods are prevalent. Both MSP and PRINCE foundation courses can be done for about Â£400-Â£600 or buy the book and sit the exams for about Â£200 !

If you want more info just let me know

Regards

Steve


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

JonW said:


> Im with Paul... not often I get to say that.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Is IT what he wants to do or just something that seems a bright idea at the mo?

My pal left IT, he was a systems analyst and partner in a company dealing in the local government arena for over 20 years, he flipped, now screen prints t-shirts for a living and is poorer. But has job satisfaction, is his own man, is much happier.......... and that is what counts.


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Silver Hawk said:


> JonW said:
> 
> 
> > Im with Paul... not often I get to say that.


:lol:


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## mattbeef (Jul 17, 2008)

Its a hard one to break into to. Im working for Apple and my gosh when i graduated 3 years ago i applied for well over 100 jobs and thats no exaggeration. Even though its a retail market and im based in a retail store its allowed me to break into the industry.

Its hard work but you just have to stick with it and be flexible in what your willing to do


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

mattbeef said:


> Its hard work but you just have to stick with it and be flexible in what your willing to do


Thats always been my mantra


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

I mostly agree with Hawkey and MarkF.

I'd suggest trying to get a First-line Support Desk / Helpdesk role in a non-IT company that retains it's own IT Department. Not as common as they used to be perhaps, but they do exist and offshoring is becoming less well regarded, so opportunities ought to be increasing I think.

Once there, he will be exposed to the entire spectrum of day-to-day IT issues and will soon identify the areas that he finds interesting. This, I think, is much more important than identifying roles that may currently appear to have better long-term career prospects. As others have pointed out, what's in demand today may not be in demand tomorrow and this is especially true in IT. At the moment, it seems to me (and I'm not necessarily referring to my own company) that there are around a dozen Business Analysts and/or Project Managers for every one "techie" that actually does the work! I suspect that this is unsustainable and that the BA/PM asteroid is looming over the horizon ready to impact their world and wipe out a lot of them quite soon.

So, my advice would be to pick a subject that he finds _interesting_, concentrate on that, and get the employer to pay for the related courses that will further his career in that particular direction.


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