# Hunt For Perfect Gift



## Anz (Aug 30, 2011)

Hello everyone.

Just a quick intro to myself and my quest. I'm Anna and I have embarked on finding my other half a pocket watch as an engagement gift. I know that it won't be like buying something from the high st and I look forward to the hunt, which may take some time. During my initial research, I came across this forum and you guys know your stuff so I'm excited to learn from you. I have already read through old posts and gained a small amount of insight, which is infinitely more than when I started.

The OH has said he wants to see the movement without opening the back (skeleton?) and prefers a half hunter case, I assume so he can see the movement with opening the case too. (Lazy?)

My personal preference would be to get something silver (it is a gift after all) and I think we would both agree that mechanical is the way to go.

My initial searches have found that what we are looking for exists, only snag is that it's new. I suppose there's nothing wrong with new, but then there's less character, no hunt and no fun, no rewarding feeling when you've found the perfect gift.

My first question is: Do antique skeleton watches exist? This is kind of important to know really, am I embarking on a wild goose chase? Since this is the only thing the OH has asked for, if it doesn't exist then maybe buying new is the only way. Or...persuade him with a good argument to get antique instead!

The other Q is for my own curiosity really, What is a double hunter case? What I mean is, what does the other side reveal?

I'm off to a local antiques fair on Sunday for a browse. I'm doubt I'll find what I'm looking for 1st go but it should be fun  Cheers for reading all this, I'm off to familiarise myself with silver hallmarks!


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Hi Anna, and :welcome: to :rltb: Not quite sure what you mean about a 'double hunter'...basically there are three types of case...the open faced pocket watch which has no protective cover to the crystal (glass) and is by far the most common type. Next is the 'full hunter' which has a protective cover over the crystal, and was developed by the hunting fraternity to prevent breakage during hunting on horseback. Thirdly, there is the intermediate stage or 'half hunter' which has a small, round crystal set in the front cover so that the time may be read without opening the front. These covers usually have an enamelled chapter ring around the small crystal, and the hour hand usually (but not always) has a double spade on it, one visible through the small crystal, and another only visible when the cover is opened. Nearly all PWs have two covers on the back, an outer, and an inner inner dust cover (or curvette) which protects the movement. Case materials can range from plain base metal, through silver, filled (or rolled) gold to solid gold. I've seen a few skeleton PWs about, but they've all been modern versions...I'm sure there are antique ones around if that's what you're after, but I would think they're going to be fairly pricey. Once you have found your OH's gift, future additions you may wish to consider include an Albert watch chain, a fob and a nice waistcoat to set it all off...(have a look at the watch chains and fobs thread for some ideas!) You may find something suitable on eBay, and I'm sure other members will be along shortly to add their advice and suggetions.

All I can say is he's a lucky guy to have such a thoughtful partner, and good luck with the search. :thumbsup:


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

A SILVER antique watch is pretty expensive. Nickel is cheaper and looks more or less the same.

You can get a half-hunter watch, but I don't know if you can get it in nickel.

You can get a skeleton vintage watch. They're called "Salesman's watches" because it has a glass caseback to see the movement. I'm not sure how common these things are, though. I've only seen photos of two or three of them.


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## Julian Latham (Jul 25, 2005)

Something along the lines of this eBay offering ?


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Very nice, Julian, and very unusual.


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## Julian Latham (Jul 25, 2005)

... another eBay offering that fits your specification, though I shudder to think about build quality and longevity :dontgetit: .


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

I think your going to struggle to get a half hunter pocket watch and a glass back at the same time........

I have a skeleton pocket watch, but it has a solid back.......... and no it's not a modern job!!

You may end up going down the American route as quite a few American antique pocket watches had glass exhibition backs. their movements are of the highest quality and look really nice, you should be able to find one in a Silver case.

There is another type of case called a "Pair case" this is where the pocket watch, which looks normal with a wide glass front and metal back, sits inside another larger steel / silver / gold case for added protection, made around the 1800's..... perhaps this is what he mean't by "double hunter"??

Good luck with your search......... :yes:


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

According to a member at WatchUSeek forums, a Double Hunter is a watch with a spring-catch lid for both the front of the watch, and the back of the watch. I've never seen one, but apparently that's what the term indicates.


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## Anz (Aug 30, 2011)

Thanks for the warm welcome and suggestions.

Roger, I think OH will def want all the added accessories too, more to add to our list of things to find, including a wee hip flask!

Julian, your ebay finds are exquisite and scary respectively. The first find is very interesting indeed, unfortunately slightly more than my budget.

Shangas & Harry, it's nice to know that salesman & exhibition pw exist. However, in light of their uncommon nature, it's has been lowered in the priority list. Will still keep an eye out for them in the future though. Something tells me OH won't stop at one watch.

New criteria are far simpler, mechanical, silver or nickel hunter case, reputable maker and popular (taking the advice from previous threads regarding spare parts). More importantly, feels "right" which we won't know til we see it.

The antiques fair was pretty good today. Â£1 admission. There must have been at least 40 stalls, selling all sorts. One guy had a box full of pws, unfortunately most of them are in need of repair and not many hunter cases. A few stalls down, another friendly chap had a whole case of working pws. Ones that caught our attention were 2 rolled gold hunter case Walthams and a similar Elgin, functioning and between Â£75-85 ticket price. When I asked him if he had a silver one, he produced a 1890 John Forrest "watch maker for the admiralty" fusee movement pw Â£120. He opened the case for us and showed us the tiny chain that apparently made the child manufacturers blind by the age of 12 due the intricacy of the work (!) It was silver hallmarked, included a silver chain and in fantastic condition after 121years. Really interesting to see but we decided against the fusee watch over concerns about its maintenance and simply because it was too big. Said we'd see him at next month's fair instead.

Just as well, since a quick internet search reveals that John Forrest watches after 1871 were actually produced by makers that had bought the brand after his death.

The hunt continues. The antiques bug has bitten us and I'm getting quite interested in all the stuff I'm learning. Shame that there weren't many more dealers but at least we found one guy and I have a better idea of prices. Plus, it wasn't a wasted journey since we found the other part to the engagement, a ring for me


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

Anz,

A silver (or nickel) hunter-case watch by a good maker is not outside of your grasp.

Getting one with a display-back is going to be nearly impossible, however, unless you go modern. They simply didn't exist back in the 1800s. That's unless you count salesmans' watches, and to my knowledge, those were never manufactured in a Hunter-case configuration.

Along with the watch, you will need a watch-chain (Silver, to go with the watch). Either an Albert chain or a bolt-ring chain, depending on how your husband intends to wear the watch.

In a waistcoat pocket? Albert-chain.

In a trousers watch-pocket? Bolt-ring chain.

You want to buy a watch from a good maker. If spare parts are needed, there's no point buying a rare watch for which parts are nonexistent.

The best watches during the mid-1800s to the mid-1900s were American-made, or high-end Europeans. There were some good British makers as well, but it's my understanding that British watchmaking was going badly during the second half of the 1800s. Americans had quality watchmaking running like...clockwork...and the system of mass-producing pocketwatches was called the "American System" by European jewellers and watchmakers.


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## Julian Latham (Jul 25, 2005)

Anz,

I may be able to assist with your quest. My email julian dot latham at ntlworld dot com.

Julian (L)


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## Anz (Aug 30, 2011)

Shangas, thanks for the encouragement. He'll need to get a bolt ring chain for everyday and an albert chain for when the waistcoat gets an airing.

I went to a few jewellers in town, the first had one broken silver pw and the other only stocked new products, but the second shop has a bigger branch so I'll have a nosey next week when I'm that way.

Julian, I'll send you a msg in a mo


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

I was wandering around YouTube and I stumbled across this video. The watches are all modern timepieces, but these might give you a better idea of what's out there...


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