# Rolex Serial Number (Non Between The Lugs)



## aesmith

Hi,

Just wondered which of the various numbers on the watch might be the actual serial number. There's nothing between the lugs at 6 or 12 o'clock. Numbers on the back are 3121 which I understand is the "case number", and 121018 which is less clearly stamped or engraved. I'm guessing the watch is '30s or later. It's just marked Rolex Oyster on the dial, the word "Rolex" doesn't appear at all anywhere else.

Thanks, Tony S


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## harryblakes7

Would LOVE to see a picture........

Sounds like a very early silver square one with wire lugs..........am i right?

Should have numbers inside the watch on the case back stamped into it, along with the words "Rolex" or "RWC Ltd" in fact there should be loads of writing in the back!! but the back of the watch should be plain and should screw down, they made these after 1928 when the "Oyster" was born after a woman swam the channel wearing one, well she nearly got to the other side.......... lol......lot's of publicity at the time

Anyway would be interested in some pics 

According to my notes the "3121" should have "Rolex Royal Observatory" on the dial, made from 1937 and is almost a convential Oyster case which should have the numbers between the lugs.

Sounds like we need Sherlock Holmes to help us out here.......... :dntknw:


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## aesmith

I'm afraid its much more mundane, really sorry to disappoint. Anyway, here are some pictures, although the scratched glass makes the dial almost unreadable there you may just be able to make out "ROLEX OYSTER" just under the 12 and "SWISS MADE" around the bottom ...





































There's no other markings on the back. The crown say "OYSTER PATENT". The word "Rolex" appears only on the dial, not on the back or on the movement.


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## harryblakes7

Interesting Dr. watson............ :umnik2:

The movement looks like a Ref:700, the 400 was the smaller one........but......... :hammer: ..... that movement should be plastered in writing!! It should say Rolex on the movement, with Timed in 5 or 6 positions, and the mainspring gear instead of saying 15 jewels swiss made should also say Rolex & Superbalance. Also the movement is a very bright metal with some scracthing on the screw heads, it's usually a polished satin stainless steel, have got a similar watch, will dig it out and post a pic.

me thinks Moriarty might have got hold of this one........... it could still be a genuine Rolex movement but the Jury is out........ unless anyone else has a few ideas??


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## aesmith

It was a family watch, which belonged to my Grandfather in law (if that's the right term) and passed on to us in 1979. Given his age it could have been bought originally any time from around 1900 on, so that doesn't really narrow it down because its presumably a '30s or '40s watch.

I was struck that all the pictures I can find of similar models seem to have Rolex marked in more places, for example this one looks pretty similar to the back except for the Rolex brand ...








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Although inside of the case looks exactly the same ..








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Movement looks to me to be technically the same movement (maybe the experts can point me to the significant differences) but the markings are different including the addition of the Rolex brand as well ..










Possibly a replacement movement, carried out goodness knows how long ago? Maybe we'll never know. Replacement parts wouldn't explain the absence of the Rolex brand from the back, when the markings exist on the inside.

More practically, can anyone recommend someone I could send it to, to replace the glass? Our local watch repairer seems to have disappeared.

Thanks, Tony S


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## harryblakes7

Well the "3121" was done from 1937 onwards, and the serial no. dates it to 1938 definate so that's one box ticked ^_^

The movement may have been changed as one lump, but a watchmaker should have repaired or replaced the part necessary if needed, it was only much later that all the old Rolex vintage parts were destroyed....... ( that's another story )

If you look at the balance in your watch when it winds down and stops you will see if it is a "super balance" i.e. four timing screws around the rim like the one in the other picture or if it is a convential balance. Also the centre wheel looks like it has a brass bush fitted....

As regards another glass someone on here may be able to help.....perhaps Roy our fearless leader 

I could but looks like you have radium lume on the dial so i'm already running scared!!! :shocking:


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## aesmith

harryblakes7 said:


> Well the "3121" was done from 1937 onwards, and the serial no. dates it to 1938 definate so that's one box ticked


Great, thanks. I must have taken the pictures with the watch running, I'll check out the balance wheel. I can let it run down now because I've timed it over a few days.


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## aesmith

harryblakes7 said:


> Also the centre wheel looks like it has a brass bush fitted....


Is that not correct for a 15 jewel movement?


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## aesmith

Bit of a knock back on repair, one guy's just got back to me saying he can't work on Rolex because they won't make parts available to third parties. I just can't imagine a current Rolex dealer being interested in helping.


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## feenix

Have you tried ryte time?


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## harryblakes7

aesmith said:


> harryblakes7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also the centre wheel looks like it has a brass bush fitted....
> 
> 
> 
> Is that not correct for a 15 jewel movement?
Click to expand...

Errr.....nope! A 15 jewel movement would not have centre wheel jewelled or even bushed.

What has happened is that the centre wheel has been running in the top plate for a long time, and as the lubrication has been lost / dried up it continues to turn grinding away the pinion and the top plate eventually stopping the watch due to increased friction and the wheel leaning over and causing bad meshing, what appears to have happened is someone has repaired it by turning down the pinion on the wheel and then bush the hole to reduce the diameter to match the new smaller diameter...... thats why watches need regular servicing!!


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## aesmith

harryblakes7 said:


> Errr.....nope! A 15 jewel movement would not have centre wheel jewelled or even bushed.


Cheers. When it's run down I'll take a couple of pictures of the balance wheel and other bits in more detail. I must say all the pictures of 15 jewel (or 15 rubies or even "15 *rubis*"!) movements look like there's some sort of bushing or bearing in the centre.

As well as scratching around the screw heads, there are numbers hand scribed inside the back, but they don't show too well in the photo.

(Edit - thanks for the Ryte Time suggestion)


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## aesmith

Here's the balance wheel with the watch run down. It took an age before it stopped, I though flash would freeze the motion but there was a lot of ghosting and reflection, so in the end I had to wait ..










By the way, Ryte Time are up for replacing the glass for me.


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## harryblakes7

Yep that's the Super Balance :good: Strange no Rolex markings on the movement, perhaps this type of movement was not made by Rolex, i know the Rolex Prince duo dial was made by Gruen, perhaps this ebauche was made for Rolex and they would engrave it and adjust and tweak it to improve timekeeping, yet the "Super-balance" was patented...... it's interesting.......

Glad Ryte time will sort it for you :yes:


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## feenix

aesmith said:


> By the way, Ryte Time are up for replacing the glass for me.


I thought he might. He's been used, and comes highly recommended by a number of users of this forum, myself included.


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## meagain

very nice i like that military style


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## dtc2

would like to see some more pics when the glass is replaced.

will you be having the dial and case restored at the same time or leave as is ?


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