# VC Minute Repeater repair/restoration



## Guest (Apr 21, 2016)

*VC Antique Minute Repeater, Servicing, Repair and Restoration*

I am regularly asked to restore and repair some interesting watches, mostly vintage antique watches, and I thought I would share with you something special. I don't believe many members are aware of this design and it's not often that you get to see the complexity of a Minute Repeater along with it's repair first hand.

In fact, this movement is said to be _'...the most complex mechanism that can be added to a watch…'_ so with that as a starting point, lets see what's on the bench this time.

*So what exactly is a Minute Repeater?*

When you activate a lever on the side of the watch case, you set in motion a system that sounds out the time on two gongs, a low tone one and a high tone one. The Minute Repeater is the most complex of all the repeaters, when activated it chimes the hours, the number of quarters past the hour (1-3) and the number of minutes past the quarter hour (1-14).

So for example, if the time was 2:49 it would sound like this:

'Tang Tang' 2 o'clock

'Ting-Tang, Ting-Tang, Ting-Tang' 3 quarters past the hours struck = 45 minutes

'Ting, Ting, Ting, Ting' 4 minutes past the quarters struck = 4 + 45 minutes = 49 minutes, so 2 hours and 49 minutes.

When you open the caseback and have a look, there isn't much in ways to warn you what's next during your disassembly.

Here is the top of the movement, other that a few extra parts on the bottom left side, there isn't a lot going on here. But wait...










Take off the dial, and you are confronted with a maze of parts and pieces. Unfortunately nothing was working, many parts were seized, the springs were broken, neither the movement or the minute repeater were functional, and I immediately noted a missing lever between the winding rack and the minute flirt (more on it later), so I had somewhat of a challenge ahead of me. But that's ok, this is why customers call and rely on me, to be able to repair, restore and make functional, their vintage time pieces, the more complex the better.










To try and put into perspective the complexity of a Minute Repeater, below on the left is the quarter rack and on the right the minute rack. When you look at the quarter rack, consider the following:

The quarter rack '_...has seven distinct features which perform three separate functions, and to do these tasks it must interact with eight other parts of the repeater_'. That's on the quarter rack alone, you have the hour rack and minute racks as well, which have to work in sequence and chime out the correct time when asked to do so.

Once you add in all the parts for the hour, and minute strike, you quickly realize that this is a special watch, getting it serviced is one thing, getting all the interactions and functions to work properly is another, add to that missing and worn parts and it's a task many watchmakers won't take on.

Quarter Rack on Left - Minute Rack on Right










The movement was disassembled in stages and this is what it looks like torn down.










This is the cannon pinion along with the minute and quarter snails, and the surprise piece between the two. On the bottom is the tooth which activates the 12 hour star (once per rotation, once per hour) this moves the hour snail.










Close up view of the hammer trips (hour and minute) along with the repeating barrel arbour and attached pinion and finger etc. The brass wheels make up the striking train and escape wheel.










Another view with most of the strike assembled.










*Fabricating a new stem*

The stem had some serious wear, and since minute repeaters are basically one-off's, parts are not available. So I will make a new stem.

First a bit of lathe work to turn down the high carbon steel bar to the correct size.










Next, the square section that fits into the clutch wheel is cut and shaped by hand. And at the same time the grove for the set lever is cut out.










Here are the results, old damaged stem on the top, new stem on the bottom. Arrow points to wear from mainplate.










_Question for budding horologists:_

The stem is made of hardened steel, it rides in the mainplate which is made of soft brass.

Why does the hardened steel stem show wear, but not the soft brass?

Close up of damage to original stem.










*Fabrication of missing lever between the winding rack and the minute flirt.*

I carry a supply of very old carbon steel, 100+ year old Swedish carbon steel to be exact. The same type of steel that this movement was made with. Why? Because modern steels have been recycled so many times they are contaminated with impurities that can't be smelted out. Pure virgin Swedish carbon steel is the best of the best, and what I will use to make my replacement lever.

First up, a view of the rod I will use next to the movement.










Some filling and it's starting to take shape.










A bit of hammering and the curve is starting to form.










Trial fitting to the movement.










With the general shape created, next I harden and temper the steel.

First up, coated with boric acid, heated to red heat and quenched in water. Result - a piece of very brittle glass hard steel.










In this condition it's so hard that a file won't touch it. It needs to be tempered for strength and durability and also to allow it to be finished properly. Soft steel doesn't take a polish at all, where as tempered steel does.

Tempered










As I work on the fit of my new lever, I need to make a shoulder screw. Here is the screw in progress, for reference the threads I cut are 0.70mm in diameter.










Once the screw is made, I can use it to fasten my lever in place and test and work out the shape of the two acting surfaces: 1 - the winding rack which moves the lever, and 2 - the connection of the lever to the minute flirt pin to activate the surprise piece when needed. Both angles and shapes of the acting surfaces have to be exact of the lever won't work, or worse, it will cause the chime train to come to a stop due to too much force on the lever.

Once all the angles and shapes of the acting surfaces are worked out, they have to be polished to provide the least amount of resistance to the repeater work as it actions the minute flirt.




























So where exactly does this lever fit in the movement? Here it is in place, doing it's job of moving the surprise piece into action when needed.










As you can probably appreciate, this is a very shortened version of the work that went into not only the servicing of this movement, but the work needed to fabricate by hand the missing pieces and get the movement running again. A big project to take on, but one that I look forward to.

I am happy to close by saying that the results and efforts paid off, the movement is working and keeping good time, and the Minute Repeater is also working and sounding off the time when asked to do so. Whew! Glad that's over with, on to the next project









Thanks for reading and I hope you found it interesting.

Rob

Ok, the preview was perfect with all the photo's showing...but here it's not working.

How do I edit the post, I can't seem to find the edit button or option?

Help!


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

Interesting is an understatement, will read again when I finish work. :thumbsup:


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## jnash (Dec 6, 2010)

bugging me i cant see the images correctly, can you fix the links? - ive enjoyed your work in other forums before.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Horlogerie said:


> Ok, the preview was perfect with all the photo's showing...but here it's not working.
> 
> How do I edit the post, I can't seem to find the edit button or option?


 You need to copy and paste the "direct link" on Photobucket, I will edit the post now to correct the images.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2016)

Roy said:


> You need to copy and paste the "direct link" on Photobucket, I will edit the post now to correct the images.
> 
> Understood, I used the Image function, sorry about that...
> 
> Rob


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Sorted


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2016)

just incredible, i know you have been trained years ago, but i think when you get to that stage it is well beyond training and more to do with the person.

you have my admiration :notworthy:


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2016)

Link to repeater operating

Link to repeater operating -2

Someone may know how to make the youtube video's above visible here, I am not sure on the process.

Rob


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## jsud2002 (Nov 7, 2015)

Under your video is a little arrow "share" click that then copy and paste the link below it into your post :thumbsup:

Excellent work BTW well done


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

holy hamburger. Repairing a watch is one thing, fabricating the parts though.... My hat off to you!!


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## dobra (Aug 20, 2009)

Must watch the whole thread again to try to absorb the technicalities. Well done Rob, and was the customer pleased - I would be over the moon. Tres bien.

Mike


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## davidcxn (Nov 4, 2010)

Fascinating post & respect your knowledge, craftsmanship and skill. You've given a new lease of life to a broken watch thereby preserving the past for the future. It must be very rewarding. :thumbsup:


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

Brilliant - great read / photos / vids.


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## gimli (Mar 24, 2016)

Holy mother of Elvis Presley riding a magical coconut in the middle of the Atlantic ocean while playing Frank Sinatra's Come Fly With Me on a ukulele!

Great respect and admiration for (rare) watchmakers like you that go well beyond what most people do by checking components with microscopes and building/repairing/customizing parts for a watch.


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## wotsch (Jan 5, 2011)

Hats off! What a fantastic read and a mind-boggling set of skills that must be needed to do that kind of work.

Welcome to the forum!


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

"Why does the hardened steel stem show wear, but not the soft brass? "

If it is a high carbon steel, could it possibly be due to the metal being weakened through oxidation, and as the part turns, the "rusted" part is worn away? Just shooting in the dark here  The steel might have had some impurities and such to start with, or may have been tempered incorrectly or something. Certainly odd.


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## Muddy D (Nov 16, 2013)

Great read, really enjoyed it and look forward to seeing more.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

"Why does the hardened steel stem show wear, but not the soft brass? "

Today I did a test assembly to check everything was free and to see how hard it was to get the chime train set up. Before that I cleaned all the pivot holes with some 2mm pegwood, sharpened to a gentle taper to get all the crud out. Over a priod of time, dust and minute metal particles adhere to the oil and get driven into the soft brass by the much harder pivots, creating an 'emery paper' like lining to the holes. This is what then wears away the harder pivot leaving it like the one I had to replace. The wood is pushed into the hole and rotated to remove the dirt. The it's resharpened and the process repeated 'til it comes out clean.

This was one of the posts in a restoration of a longcase clock I did several years ago under the title of 'The Grandfather clock project'. It was an ongoing thread that ran for about 3 or 4 weeks, done by a complete novice, (me) so some of the ideas used might seem ridiculous to a pro. I was helped at the time by another member who was a clockmaker. The one thing I had going for me was that I was once an engineer, and fabrication and metal work were (and still are) second nature to me. If you want to see it look here...

http://xflive.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?/topic/58371-grandfather-clock-project/&do=embed


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2016)

gimli said:


> Holy mother of Elvis Presley riding a magical coconut in the middle of the Atlantic ocean while playing Frank Sinatra's Come Fly With Me on a ukulele!
> 
> Great respect and admiration for (rare) watchmakers like you that go well beyond what most people do by checking components with microscopes and building/repairing/customizing parts for a wat


 This has to be the funniest reply I ever received, thanks for the good laugh, and of course thanks for the kind feedback.



dobra said:


> Must watch the whole thread again to try to absorb the technicalities. Well done Rob, and was the customer pleased - I would be over the moon. Tres bien.
> 
> Mike


 Hi Mike, yes the customer was pleased with the outcome and so was I.



gimli said:


> Roger the Dodger said:
> 
> 
> > "Why does the hardened steel stem show wear, but not the soft brass? "
> ...


 That is correct. Particles of dirt/dust get imbedded into the soft brass where they act like a grinding stone on the steel pivot rotating in the hole.

I had a look at the clock restoration, well done, to often I see those dumbell shaped pivots, scary stuff if one lets go at full wind in the middle of the night...

Rob


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