# New To Collecting



## BuckyBleichert (Jan 31, 2009)

Hi.

This is my first post so forgive my naivete. I am thinking of starting to collect watches and it seems that Russian watches might be a good place to start. I.e. lots of variety and not vastly expensive.

Are there any good books on watch collecting in general for a beginner and Russian/Soviet watches in particular?

I have ordered this one: 'Russian Wristwatches, Pocket Watches, Stop Watches, on Board Clock and Chronometers' by

Juri Levenburg. Is it any good?

Another question I have is that on ebay yesterday a seller was claiming that a Soviet vintage watch would always have made in CCCP rather than made in Russia somewhere on it. Is this true? Many 'Soviet looking' watches I have seen seem to be made in Russia or have no country of origin on the casing (albeit with Cyrillic lettering). Also many websites that sell Russian watches (such as the Vostok KGB or MIG) are presumably selling post-Soviet watches as these don't have made in CCCP on them. Am I correct in this assumption?

Thanks


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## thunderbolt (May 19, 2007)

Welcome to :rltb: and the start of a slippery slope. :lol: I don't know much about Russian watches other than Vostok and Poljot have a loyal following on here. I'm sure someone will be along soon to advise you.


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## Fray Bentos (Mar 2, 2008)

BuckyBleichert said:


> Hi.
> 
> This is my first post so forgive my naivete. I am thinking of starting to collect watches and it seems that Russian watches might be a good place to start. I.e. lots of variety and not vastly expensive.
> 
> ...


Hi and welcome.

This is exactly the place I started and haven't looked back.

The help and advice you will get is second to none and has prevented me from getting carried away and buying something that is not exactly genunie...there is much about..but put any questions or pics here and someone will soon be along with advice.

Spookily enough the postman just delivered my copy of the book you mentioned. It is a well referenced book on this and other forums, and a few of my watches I have sourced over the last year or two are in there which is a bonus.

I started with a Vostok 'komandirskie' green 'tank' with two o'clock crown, I put it on an olive green NATO and I use it daily as my beater at work. Nice and cheap from ebay, solid, keeps good time, an eye catcher and talking piece. That as Thunderbolt said was the beginning of the 'slippery slope'.

As for the labelling of the watches (vostoks)..I'm still learning, but basically, and I stand corrected, '3aka3 mo cccp' on the dial relates to the watch being made by order of the ministry of defence and was supplied by a distributor called Voetang in the Soviet Union to military personnel only, there are rumours that the Russian government is about to start issuing watches once again to military staff again, I've just got my first genunie '3aka3', there are lots of 'frankens' out there, and the other marking CAEAAHO B CCCP is on general sale models which can be exactly the same designs / versions as military ones, such as my 'tank' which is a 'made in' not military.

I will need help on this bit though, at a certain point, unsure if this is when the Soviet Union broke up, but from a certain date, believe 90s, Russia was put on the watches instead of CCCP, so you could roughly year date a watch by this.

Nothing appears simple with Russian / Soviet watches, it can be described as a minefield, but with the forum for advice, it is enjoyable and somewhat fascinating.

A couple of good reference sites are :

www.netgrafik.ch/russiantimes

www.russianwatchguide.com

Hop I'm ok to list the sites above.

Regards,

Richard


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## BuckyBleichert (Jan 31, 2009)

That was quick!

Thanks for your advice. The book should arrive tomorrow so I am glad it is useful.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Hello there, and welcome to :rltb: - it's a great place to be. :yes:

Most of the answers you are seeking will be in the JL book, however, don't regard it as being a Rosetta Stone of Russian watches - it's not!







New information seems to come along almost daily as to where different watches/models/movements were made and which watches they were used in - it's a whole world the Russki scene! I doubt if anyone knows all the answers. h34r:

Initially you might like to look at Vostok, (Boctok), a vast range of solid made watches with many hundreds if not thousands of dial designs, automatic and manual versions abound. Other makes favoured here are Poljot - means Flight in English - and Raketa which is Rocket in English. Poljot make a dressier watch generally than Vostok, Raketa make (amongst others) very collectable 24 hour watches (the hour hand moves round only once in twenty-four hours = military time) and also calendar watches with settable year calendars on the dial. 

Slava made some nice pieces, using a double barrelled mainspring, and a variety of case shapes. For a list of makers visit below, I have a partial list on the affordables site.. :yes: Google for "USSR Time" for a photo listing of many many Russki items. (Mark Gordon's website) :lol:

Then we enter the world of Chinese copies - beware Chinese made "versions" of Slava and others, often made under some kind of licensing arrangements originally, now churned out whether a license exists or not - who knows for sure?

Stick around and don't be a stranger, most guys here will be helpful. As another thought, weary away a wet snowy day by Googling for "Cyrillic Alphabet" and download and print off the three jpg images of same you'll see on the first page. It's amazing how easy it becomes to guess at how they spell "Automatic" once you have that beside you. :yes

E N J O Y - that's the main thing. Incidentally, the change from CCCP to Russia was based around when the old USSR?CCCP broke up into the separate states - *BUT* dials signed with CCCP were still used until stocks ran out so dating is only approximate using this method - depending on the popularity of the model in question.


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## inskip75 (Jan 10, 2009)

hi and welcome,

I'm only a newbie myself but one of the first discoveries I made before I was a member was that a Sekonda Chronograph I had since early teens is actually considered special - a Strela. So its away for work to RLT. All the responses I've had have been helpful and there are some very knowledgeable chaps out there.

Enjoy the variety of watches, which I find fascinating and most of the ones I see I think - I'll have to get one of those!!

But so far have remained relatively in control!


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## chris l (Aug 5, 2005)

Hello and welcome...

You are now officially addicted to Russian watches. It's cheaper than most addictions but just as obsessive!

As a rule, Soviet Union watches will be marked 'CCCP' or 'SU'...

However... I have found older 'Russian' watches, intended for export, marked as 'Russian'.

Read, read, and read some more. Ask us here; we (I) have made some (expensive) mistakes and will be pleased to help you to avoid repeating them.

Levenberg is not infallible. But he may be considered by some as fairly typical.

Good luck.

Have fun.

Don't spend too much! (Start with some nice Sekondas)


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## BuckyBleichert (Jan 31, 2009)

Thanks for all your useful replies. Hoping my book will arrive today (snow permitting).

I also ordered Collecting and Repairing Watches by M. Cutmore for a more general overview.


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## AbingtonLad (Sep 8, 2008)

BuckyBleichert said:


> I also ordered Collecting and Repairing Watches by M. Cutmore for a more general overview.


I'm also looking for a good 'starters' book on the internal workings of our favourite objects (watches, not wives). Is Cutmore the way to go? Or is there someone else we should be looking at?

Thaks for your help chaps. And welcome Bucky :rltb:


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## BuckyBleichert (Jan 31, 2009)

AbingtonLad said:


> BuckyBleichert said:
> 
> 
> > I also ordered Collecting and Repairing Watches by M. Cutmore for a more general overview.
> ...


I got the Cutmore reference from here:

JeremyKellyCollectorsGuide on pmwf

It also has a few more books listed.


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2009)

I've owned and sold dozens of russian / soviet watches and currently have one (nice looking Poljot chrono with 3133 movement from early 1990s) but that ain't for sale since it's my I wanna look sporty but dressy kind of watch. My advise to you is to keep your cool and try to buy watches you can see in person before paying. I make trips to St. Petersburg for this (but since it's only couple hundred km away it's not a problem for me) and I keep my eyes open when I travel around eastern Europe (for work, which is not related to watches in anyway). I've seen loads of broken watches and even more watches that have never been serviced, but were still purchasable (since the price was right).

So look around, if you like pocket watches as well try looking at Molnijas, their quit robust and mostly found in reasonable shape.

Oh and as far as books go, I've found that old watchmakers textbooks are invaluable help when determining the condition and what needs to be done. New ones could be better but cost you arm and leg.


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## sangman2000 (Mar 30, 2008)

Hi and welcome. Enjoy the forum, they are really friendly and helpful bunch in this forum. what you might find though is that you start to get cobwebs in your wallet

as to russians i have had a few and sold most of them, only have this Vostoc Partner left. they have all worked and kept goodish time. if i was to be faulting them it would be the poor finnish on cheaper models. the finish on this vostok is realy bad but it keeps great time but hey for the price a good place to start imho










also got this

Zim (Zavod Imeni Maslennikova), 15 jewels cal.2602,Сделано в СССР, c1970`s/`80`s ment


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