# New P C Advice Please



## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Right I really need to upgrade my PC. Having have it play silly buggers all day I also need to get all my pictures onto a cd pdq







just in case.

What the hell does it mean when you switch it on and it gets to the black screen where it does it's checks and refuses to go any futher? 3 times I had to switch it off and re start before it started ok. now I'm scared to turn it off!

I decided to buy a copy of "computer shopper" today (main reason for chosing this one above any other mag is the free disc was a cd (my pc doesn't have a dvd) and it has a free sudoku programme on it









Anyway I am serious, I've had this pc for years and i was given it by a guy who was upgrading then! so I need to get something new as I know this won't go on forever.

The main question really is who the hell can I trust? there are so many sellers in the marketplace. I don't want to spend a fortune, I don't need it for games or anything fast like that. The local Aldi has good deals every now and then, QVC seem to have good offers too or do I try pc world or an internet dealer or one of the miriad of firms who are advertising in CS, or do I give my mate Dave a ring who thinks he knows he way round a motherboard and see what he can do?

oh and we would like a new car as well! doesn't life hit you all at once!


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## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

The basic offers from Dell seem OK. I had one a while back, and it never missed a beat.

From my experience, they do good reliable, upgradeable machines. Been thinking of getting another as it happens.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

pg tips said:



> What the hell does it mean when you switch it on and it gets to the black screen where it does it's checks and refuses to go any futher?


This is known as POST (Power On Self Test). If the computer hangs here it could be a problem with hardware or a problem with the Operating System. There should be a message on the screen to give you a hint as to how far it's got before hanging or sometimes the computer will bleep at you. The number and sequence of long/short bleeps is known as a bleep code and this tells you what the problem is. Different motherboard bios manufacturers use different bleep codes so you need to find out which one you have in order to look up the relevant code.



> The main question really is who the hell can I trust?


If I'm building a machine myself I tend to go to dabs, Novatech or Overclockers UK, but I'm sure there are lots of others.

Pre-built, you can't far wrong with HP or Dell.

Have fun


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

thanks rich, it said it couldn't find something or other on the cd?







A bit like the hand you get when you leave a disc in the floppy A drive. Why it was looking at the cd drive is anybody's guess.

I'll check out what you've suggested.


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## r1ch (Feb 2, 2004)

A very good question PG and I'm sure they'll be quite decent opinions expressed. If your IT aspiration is pretty modest and confined to say surfing around a bit, letters, the odd spreadsheet etc.. then there isn't a great deal of need to spend masses of money. For circa Â£500-600 you could get a very reasonable machine fit for that sort of purpose. The computer shopper pages are full of obscure PC vendors: these folk basically buy bits and bung them all together and stick a badge on it. The quality of the components, the care of manufacture etc.. can be a bit iffy; alot of the peripheral bits like the keyboard are also often pretty nasty. The main worry IMHO however is the issue of support. The profit margins on hardware are small and the market is overcrowed - not a good combination in terms of companies being in business for very long. Alot of the outfits you'll see in computer shopper do tend to go "pop" and take with them any support/warranty etc.. that they would have offered.

Building your own machine/getting a buddy to do it, was in days gone by a pretty logical route to ending up with a good machine for relatively small amounts of money. There is of course still the issue of who fixes it if it goes wrong, (or more frustratingly develops an intermittent fault of some nature), and the price of ready built hardware these days has eroded the benefit of DIY to an appreciable extent. Theres still a benefit to be had, but its alot less than it used to be.

If it helps any, like quite a few guys around these parts, I "do" IT for a living and to be honest I don't bother these days d*cking around building hardware. I'd say spend around the Â£500-600 mark for a reasonable "cooking" system, around a grand for something with fancy graphics/speakers/fast memory etc.. or Â£1200-1500 for something very fancy on which to plan global domination, (white cat on lap etc.. etc..). Without a specialist need of some sort, I personally wouldn't spend more than that at the top end, (it'll be out of date by the time you've unpacked it remember!)

In terms of securing the data, I would advise you to partition the hard drive, and stick the O/S and Apps on one of the logical drives and your personal data on another. I'd then advise just dumping your personal documents off to a re-writable CD or DVD every now and again, say couple of times a week. If you want to get all fancy, then adding a second physical hard drive in the machine could allow you to mirror the data real time. If IT isn't your "thing" though and you don't wanna go that deep, a straightforward dump of your personal data is all you really need.

If it were my money, I say steer clear of any outfit you've never heard of, and have a look at either Dell or HP.

There will be plenty of other opinions offered I'm sure!.. good luck with the purchase.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

I build my own but my first PC was a Compaq back in '97 and it's still running.







Before that I used Amigas (still do).
















Like Rich I get my bits from Overclockers (they are 5 minutes away by car) and have had no bother with them.

If you need a package I would go to Dell or HP/Compaq.

It's often daunting for someone to think about building a PC but a good mechanic should have no problem having a "diagnostic" capability built in.









There's plenty of geeks on here to help you if you need them.


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

Hi Pg

Had two Dells in the past 4 years, just upgraded for the extra speed, not because it was crap. Like them because I can choose components, drop the monitor, other bits I don't want and know enough about computers to re-use items from my old computer. Never had a problem and they have some good offers on at the moment.

I just find other systems overpriced and full of gadgets and gimmicks.

Wish, like Stan I could build my own


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## raketakat (Sep 24, 2003)

Mine's a Dell. They seem decent.

My monitor packed in 6 months after the guarantee period ended and they sent me another without any fuss.


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

rhaythorne said:


> Pre-built, you can't far wrong with HP or Dell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


..or Mesh.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

r1ch said:


> In terms of securing the data, I would advise you to partition the hard drive, and stick the O/S and Apps on one of the logical drives and your personal data on another. I'd then advise just dumping your personal documents off to a re-writable CD or DVD every now and again, say couple of times a week. If you want to get all fancy, then adding a second physical hard drive in the machine could allow you to mirror the data real time. If IT isn't your "thing" though and you don't wanna go that deep, a straightforward dump of your personal data is all you really need.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Rich if I knew what you were talking about that would be very useful







I haven't a clue how to partition a drive!

No seriously thanks for that it makes sound sense, I rang another friend who works in IT he gave me a quote on what he could build a machine for to the speck I'd likely need without charging for his time and there are some in CS cheaper!

I remember when I was into BBC micros I only ever went to Watford Electronics, they were by far the best company to deal with at the time for the Beeb and it made life so simple!

Someone has recommended Eavsham Micros and I think they have a place in town so I'll probably go and look there 1st.

A lot of these places have a back to base warranty and as I do not intend keeping two pc's running if it ever went wrong I'd be off line while it was getting fixed. Don't know if I could cope with that!


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## r1ch (Feb 2, 2004)

Hi PG.. all it really means its dividing the actual hard drive in the machine into more than one configured "virtual" drive. Its actually dead easy to do when you are starting building a machine from scratch and there are utilities such as "Partition Magic" that can create partitions after the drive has been formatted. If you end up buying from somewhere like Watford, they'd probably do that for you if you asked nicely. The advantage of doing this is that it can make recovering your personal data much more straightforward if the machine dies, (does depend whats happens of course!), as the Operating System and Data are seperated and not mashed around together on the same C:\ partition.

Come back after you've had a think









Rich.


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## tom (Jun 2, 2003)

FIRST UP RESTART YOUR MACHINE AND PRESS f8 to get into safemode, depending on your operating system you can try a software repair and or hardware check. The simple way is to go back to the last configeration which worked.

However if you have a hardware fault you will be out of luck.

As far as new machines are concerned I would go with a Dell good solid and reliable and good value for money.

Tom


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## Ron Jr (Sep 10, 2003)

I also used to build my own. The cost savings was huge but that was years ago. I have purchased 4 Dells so far. The first was mine and it was a very reliable box so when it was time to upgrade mine I purchased anouther Dell and passed mine down to my Wife. She was happy at first as it was a major jump over her old PC but She started using my new one and decided She wanted a new one not my hand me down. So we went on Dells site to order #3 and the prices were so good instead of passing Dell #1 down to my Daughter (I would have had to format and load XP pro) we bought her a new one Dell #4. We gave Dell #1 to our church and I wound up formating and installing XP Pro anyway.







BTW I would buy an aftermarket monitor if you want to be serious Dells are OK for a business environment that is not very heavy in Graphics I find they don't reproduce colors very well even with a top of the line video card. I use NEC's myself (CRT not LCD in my house).


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## TimD (Feb 7, 2004)

What about a Mac? The mac mini starts cheap. Comes with the sublime iLife suite, no virus no spyware and no crappy Windows XP.

I've built pcs before but my next computer will either be a mac mini or an iMac.

Cheers,

Tim.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Most user's need a one stop solution like an Apple Mac or PC running Widoze.









Mark my words, within a couple of years you will find more Linux based computers offered for sale that will do the job at much less cost and with fewer "restrictions".









I'm not a Linux geek but I have istalled it on a PC and got it (with some work) to play commercial (regionalised) DVDs, WMV files and a whole host of other things that a Windoze PC will do, and more.

Times are changing and they are changing because people don't want to have a credit card slot built into their computer of the future.









My advice, get rid of the commercial leeches and put some time and work into Linux. If it won't do all the things a Windows PC ( doubtful) will do then ask yourself if you need that anyway.









Do you need convergence on your mobile (cell phone)? Do you need your PC to make toast? Is the IPod a life saver?

In the real world things are different.









There is a "live" Linux CD designed just to help people in weather damaged areas to obtain direct contact with FEMA in the USA, it costs nothing and may save lives.









Let's see the Vole do something like that.









I was joking, Bill.









Make your choice, or let someone else ( Bill or Steve) make it for you.


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## makky (Jul 14, 2004)

TimD said:


> What about a Mac? The mac mini starts cheap. Comes with the sublime iLife suite, no virus no spyware and no crappy Windows XP.
> 
> I've built pcs before but my next computer will either be a mac mini or an iMac.
> 
> ...


I second that. I was a Windows user for several years and bought a Mac a couple of months ago.

Never thought it could be so pleasurable to use a computer. By far the best OS I've ever used. And the stablest. Not had a single crash or application hang yet. I'll never go back to Windows again.

And... Macs are beautiful things


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

what's the compatability between Mac and windoze like?

My boss has a habit of sending me documents via email, cos he's too lazy to print them and post basically!

If I go for mac can you still read word and excel files?


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## TimD (Feb 7, 2004)

Microsoft Office is available for both Apple and Windows platforms. Or you can use Open office etc.

Cheers,

Tim.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

As Tim says, there are Open Source alternatives to M$ software if you have to use Winder$.

Look For Open Office, Firefox and Thunderbird. They are the main programmes that compete with M$ software. They work well too.









I found M$ Office '97 too complex for my needs so why do I need the latest version? I do like the cat assistant though.














Open Office v2 is everything MSO97 was and more, try it.









Old PCs can be brought back to life with Win 98 or 2K using Open Source programmes. I reckon some Linux distros will do the job too.
















Get some extra RAM and use this:-

http://www.gpstudio.com/stux/

With some help it will do everything most people will need.









Let's get old computers back in the frame and not in land fill, just because they won't run bloat doesn't mean they are useless.









If we could find out what's wrong with your PC we could help you get it running again, PG.


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## rsykes2000 (Dec 3, 2003)

Compatability is fine between Office on Mac and Windows. Or as said you could choose a free alternative (that works fine) like OpenOffice.

As for the hardware, a Mac mini is particularly gorgeous *strokes the one on his desk*







but when you add in the cost of a monitor, keyboard and mouse, it doesn't come out so cheap, you can get a more powerful Windows PC for less. I build my own PCs (and do so for my work as well) - as an example, a black Antec midi tower case, with matching black floppy drive and x16 NEC DVD-ReWriter, 2 * 512MB PC3200 Corsair memory, Gigabyte motherboard, radeon 9250 64MB graphics card, AMD Sempron 2800+ (boxed with fan) and 160GB Samsung hard drive including VAT comes in at around 307 pounds from dabs.com. Far better spec than the Mac mini, and even if you add on a Windows OEM licence for 60 quid, still a lot cheaper. 20 quid for keyboard and mouse and 176 for a 19" widescreen TFT takes you a little over 500 quid and should last you a fair while.

I'm not a Windows zealot though, as said I've got a Mac mini as one of my machines (there's 4 in my office), an iPod shuffle and also a (gorgeous) powerbook. If you don't mind that some of the money you are lashing out is to make your hardware smaller and prettier, you can't go wrong with a Mac.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

A mine of helpful info thanks guys.

Actually since I thumped the side of the tower it hasn't done it since









And the outlook handup I had hasn't re occured either!

May keep the old girl running for a bit, the mrs has decided she wants a laptop with wireless internet connection so she can browse whilst watching tv!


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

> Actually since I thumped the side of the tower it hasn't done it since


Old chinese Engineering saying

If at first it doesn't work .......... hit it with a bigger hammer
















Works every time ............ well almost


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

PG,

Open the thing up and check all the connectors and card seatings.


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## makky (Jul 14, 2004)

pg tips said:


> what's the compatability between Mac and windoze like?
> 
> My boss has a habit of sending me documents via email, cos he's too lazy to print them and post basically!
> 
> ...


For any other Windows users out there consdering buying a sexy Mac... (computer not raincoat!)

File compatibility is excellent.

All new Macs come with Appleworks as standard. While it's not quite Microsoft Office, it's a fully featured Wordprocessor, Spreadsheet, Database, Presentation etc. program. The Wordprocessor and Spreadsheet fully support .doc and .xls files so you can freely open and close Windows created files, or indeed save files in those formats.

There is native support in Tiger for PDF files. This is particularly useful as you can easily open files without needing any Adobe software.

Even the basic text editor built into Tiger can open .doc files.

You can import Powerpoint files into Keynote, which is a presentation application that comes as part of Apples iWork software (You need to buy iWork separately).

Not sure about support for Microsoft Access databases. I think you would probably need the Microsoft software.

Photographers amongst you will appreciate the support for practically every Graphics file format every invented.

The only software I've had to buy for my iBook is Photoshop Elements 3.

There are only a couple of potential pitfalls to look out for -

1.Not all Broadband ISP's support Macs. Check first.

2.Safari (Mac's equivalent of Internet Explorer) is apparently not compatible with some internet sites. Not found any problems myself yet. There is a version of Internet Explorer for Macs available from Microsoft which you can download if necessary.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Just been watching QVC. The TSV is one cool laptop. can't afford it right now (spent ^K on a new car on Tuesday) but this sort of thing looks ideal, can do away with the desktop!

HP laptop


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