# Plastering And Tiling Question.



## vw1978 (Nov 2, 2012)

Just about to redo the bathroom so I'm in need of some advice.

1. I need to reboard the ceiling as it is really un-level, can I get away with using ordinary plasterboard or should I use plasterboard specific for moister laden areas.

2. I'm going to be tiling the entire bathroom including the floor and bath panel, any tips for tiling the bath panel.

3. I want to chase the shower pipes into the wall to hide them, is it better to use plastic pipe for this?.

Any advice appreciated as always.

Cheers


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

Plastic pipe does have a tendancy to blow its connections out after a while...........seen the mess afterwards............ use copper piping.........it's worth the extra Â£20 for peace of mind :yes:


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## Peacefrog (Nov 15, 2013)

With regards to an uneven ceiling; I had the same problem in the kitchen.

My mate and I used lengths of wood decking to create a grid effect (screwed in the the joist and measured with a spirit level) and then put the plasterboard onto the wood decking.

It worked a treat and made the skimming of the plasterboard an easy task.

Admittedly, you lose a few inches off your room height but if you have high ceilings like I do it does not matter.


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## Deco (Feb 15, 2011)

1. Use moisture resistant plasterboard, there'll be feck all difference in price.

2, Don't tile it, it'll crack. If you must, make sure the bath panel is made from well braced 18mm WBP plywood to avoid flexing. Apply a coat of polybond before tiling. It'll still crack.

3, Plastic pipes are fine if correctly installed, but no advantage over copper. The trick is remembering the 'insert' and ensuring the pipe is properly 'pushed'; into the 'push fit' connection. I plumbed my own house and no leaks yet,,,,


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

Use the best quality materials,once.

How annoyed would you be if you didn't use moisture resistant plasterboard and then had an issue?

As I am doing up our downstairs cloakroom I can also suggest looking on eBay for ceramics and taps. I have bought a basin with solid oak stand/

Cupboard, tall mixer tap, and geberit wall hung toilet and frame for a total of Â£400ish. These types of things are far cheaper on the continent than the rip off UK


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

Have you checked that the wall is thick enough to channel? That was our plan originally, but when we pulled a false wall down to make the room wide enough for the bath we found that the wall we intended to channel (at the top of the stairs) was only 2" thick. If we'd tried channelling it it would have just blown through, so we pulled it down and replaced with a stud wall - much easier to do the plumbing too then...


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

I thought of tiling the bath panel, but I wasn't convinced it would move without cracking or letting water behind it (baths settle under the weight of all that water). I ended up panelling it with T&G (and gained two cupboards under the bath in the process)...










(The lens distorts that picture, it is a proper 1700mm bath.)


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## vw1978 (Nov 2, 2012)

Thanks for the advice and thanks Who.Me? For giving me the idea of running pipes through the stud, if I switch things around a little I should be able to do it, I'm still keen to tile the bath panel though but I won't just be doing it as a panel, the whole bath will be sat in a timber frame and then have cement board (hardiebacker) attached to it and tiled so it will look like the bath is sat within a tiled box ( hope you get the idea). I will be using Gyproc duplex vapour plasterboard for the ceiling.

No doubt I will be back with more questions along the way so thanks again for the advice so far. Cheers


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## RTM Boy (Jun 1, 2011)

Alot of good advice already. I would add the following;

Take down the old ceiling carefully and use battens to get it as level and strong as possible. You'll probably need to plane some and use screws, not nails. Use the right fixtures for moisture-tolerant plasterboard. Bathrooms get very damp, even if you have and use an extractor fan.

If you're going to tile onto timber of any kind you'll get some cracking no matter what you do because timber expands and contracts with ambient moisture/temperature and tiles don't (at least not to the same degree). So, it's not just the bath panel that'll be an issue, but the floor also. I would get the largest sheet of marine ply and cut to size and glue and screw (don't use nails) and tile onto that with appropriate adhesive and flexible grout.

Copper is always better than plastic for useful life. Be very careful chasing in walls because you never know for certain what's in the wall - even with stud, etc., locators - especially in an older house...


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

vw1978 said:


> the whole bath will be sat in a timber frame and then have cement board (hardiebacker) attached to it and tiled so it will look like the bath is sat within a tiled box ( hope you get the idea). I will be using Gyproc duplex vapour plasterboard for the ceiling.


Ahh, got it. That'll look nice. Never tried it as I haven't had that amount of space around the bath, but I'd guess that a wood frame would be the way to build it.

Backerboard isn't cheap, and it's surprisingly thin (I used it to replace the bathroom window cill before I tiled in to the reveal), so you might want to fix it to some kind of sheet material to give it some impact resistance.

Marine ply like RTMBoy suggests might do it, but WBP (Weather and Boil Proof) ply will have better water resistance and it'll survive the steam in a bathroom better. Don't use it on its own though - I tiled straight on to it in the bathroom in my old flat. A hairline crack appeared after a couple of years, after a leak from the flat upstairs' bathroom. If I'd known about backer board, I'd have attached it to the WBP ply.

Not sure how much tiling you've done, but I'd thorougly recommend the ready-mixed BAL Greenstar adhesive. It's worth the extra cost. I'd steer clear of ready-mixed grout though and buy the powder that you mix yourself. Don't forget to make sure that you seal everything with a proper acrylic primer (I used BAL because that's what they had in stock). DON'T use unibond/PVA. PVA re-activates if it gets damp (and water will find its way through the slightest imperfaction in the grout) and then it becomes a lubricant between the dried tile adhesive and the wall - and off will come the tiles.

Finally (sorry, you're probably sick of the advice by now) - if you haven't already done so, get a plasterer in to look at the ceiling. Our ceilings were up and down like a donkey's hind-quarters, but the plasterer taped the cracks, knocked off the high spots (we had artex) and skimmed it flat. Modern plasters are pretty flexible. Much better to skim the existing ceiling flat than tear the old one down (if only to avoid decades of dust, c&ap and insulation from falling in to the room below).


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## vw1978 (Nov 2, 2012)

Who. Me? said:


> vw1978 said:
> 
> 
> > the whole bath will be sat in a timber frame and then have cement board (hardiebacker) attached to it and tiled so it will look like the bath is sat within a tiled box ( hope you get the idea). I will be using Gyproc duplex vapour plasterboard for the ceiling.
> ...


Thanks again Who. me?, I've used BAL Greenstar adhesive before and use the powdered mould resistant grout that you have to mix, I've done a fair bit of DIY tiling for myself before with pretty good results, so I'm hoping I still have a eye for it as it's been a few years, I did my sisters bathroom a few years ago but I didn't use any PVA, it was a newly plastered and mist painted room and I wasn't aware I should have PVA the walls, however non of the tiles have moved so far. As for the ceiling, it drops quite a lot and I would say is beyond skimming flat plus in one corner their is a meter squared of ceiling missing where the airing cupboard was, the dip in the ceiling is where the previous owner removed the wall between the bathroom and toilet to make it one room so I need to investigate it a bit further, I don't really want to rip the whole ceiling down as it's the old lat's with plaster on the ceiling which will be a right messy job to do, so I may just try to remove the 'dipping' section and overboard it all, but I'm not sure how the gyproc duplex foil backed vapour plasterboard will work if I do this???


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

vw1978 said:


> Thanks again Who. me?, I've used BAL Greenstar adhesive before and use the powdered mould resistant grout that you have to mix, I've done a fair bit of DIY tiling for myself before with pretty good results, so I'm hoping I still have a eye for it as it's been a few years, I did my sisters bathroom a few years ago but I didn't use any PVA, it was a newly plastered and mist painted room and I wasn't aware I should have PVA the walls, however non of the tiles have moved so far. As for the ceiling, it drops quite a lot and I would say is beyond skimming flat plus in one corner their is a meter squared of ceiling missing where the airing cupboard was, the dip in the ceiling is where the previous owner removed the wall between the bathroom and toilet to make it one room so I need to investigate it a bit further, I don't really want to rip the whole ceiling down as it's the old lat's with plaster on the ceiling which will be a right messy job to do, so I may just try to remove the 'dipping' section and overboard it all, but I'm not sure how the gyproc duplex foil backed vapour plasterboard will work if I do this???


No problem. Just for the avoidance of doubt - DON'T use PVA, use an acrylic primer.

Have the ceiling joists bowed, or have the laths come away from the joists? If it's the former, Id try screwing the old celing back to the joists first (use the black plasterboard screws - other ones will rust and you'll get rust spots coming thorugh the finished ceiling), then overboard before skimming. I was all for pulling down our ceilings, particularly downstairs where a previous owner had patched in after taking down walls and butted the boards between joists, rather than on them. Our plasterer talked me out of it (even though it would have been easier for him to skim new board) - the mess would have been horrendous.

Don't know about vapour plasterboard for a ceiling, but I think it would be overkill (it wouldn't hurt, but you could use normal plasterboard, which would be cheaper). My only experience of it was as a specification exercise as part of a Uni course (spent some time at Southbank's School of Engineering Systems and Design through work), but we were specifying it as part of the vapour barrier in the warm side of insulated walls in a 'whole house' refurbishment scenario.


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## chris.ph (Dec 29, 2011)

If you take the ceiling down, the new plasterboards will be thinner than the laths and you will have to fill the walls as well,hire a rotary laser , batten the ceiling off and overboard,you know then that the new ceiling is level.you can buy packers at your local diy store or just use off cuts of ply of varying thicknesses to level up.

. With your bath panel you could use the swimming pool tile adhesive,used in conjunction with a good waterproof grout you shouldn't have any problems


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

I assume you're going to do the same as I did to our bath about 15 years ago.....




























The framework was 2" x 2" and boxed in with 12mm WBP ply. The tiles were a continuation of the floor tiles, and were applied using the same flexible adhesive and grout. They have never cracked or moved, but this may be due to the fact that they're very hard tiles, and the special adhesive and grout stays permanently elastic. This was purchased from a dedicated tile shop, who advised me on what to use. I made my panel without an access hatch, as I thought it would detract from the overall finish. Instead, I made an access panel in the wall of the adjoining bedroom, (which is only 2" thick paramount board), so that I can service/change the taps if I want to.

The access panel in the bedroom....it's not obtrusive in any way.



















Hope this helps a bit.


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## vw1978 (Nov 2, 2012)

Roger the Dodger said:


> The framework was 2" x 2" and boxed in with 12mm WBP ply. The tiles were a continuation of the floor tiles, and were applied using the same flexible adhesive and grout.


Quick question, seeing that you've been there and done it, did you tile upto the bath edge or does the bath sit on top of the tiles? And the same question goes to the toilet too, did you tile under it or around it? I want to tile under the toilet but I'm worried the weight of people sitting on it will crack the tiles. Cheers


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## Foxdog (Apr 13, 2011)

Only just noticed this thread so here's some advice from a plasterer.

1. Vapour check (duplex) boards would be a waste of money there purpose is primarily to prevent moisture vapour travelling into a cold poorly ventilated space i.e. a flat roof and possibly condensing, so normal boards will be fine.

2. Check your joist spacing for 9.5mm thickness board you will need them to be max 400mm any wider you will need to use 12.5 mm thick plasterboard.

3. Over boarding will be less messy than stripping, (you can use screws and just go straight though the original plaster/laths into the joist) all the ceiling joists should be at the same level irrespective of different rooms, the problem of unevenness will be due to differing thicknesses of plaster applied at the original construction stage (this is often more pronounced at wall edges) so you might be best getting a 1.8-2m straight edge and checking before over boarding.

Should it be necessary to remove some more of the original plaster then pack it with off cuts of board before re-boarding and remember to mark on the walls the position of all your ceiling joists before starting to board.

Board across the joists and stagger your board joints if it is more than one board across, (start from one side then go back the opposite way)

4.Once boarded out check with a straight edge again, if it is still to wavy for skim finish to fill (more than 5/6mm hollows) then Thistle Bonding can be used (unless you want to chance dubbing it out with finish plaster), before finishing with Multi Finish.

5. As has already been mentioned it may be that a straight forward over plaster may be sufficient.

If still not sure get a Plasterer to have a look/do it, it will be better than looking up a bodge job with regret.

:fox:


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## vw1978 (Nov 2, 2012)

Thanks foxdog for the advice, I took the entire ceiling down the day before yesterday (messy job) and reboarded it yesterday, I decided against the vapour board as I didn't think it was needed and went for standard 12.5mm board.

so that's a small part of the room done, just needs skimming now and then it's onto the tiling.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

VW....in answer to your questions, the boxing was up to the bath lip, then the tile slips applied after.....their finished height is probably 15mm higher than the edge of the bath, and finished with a 10mm silicone bead. I tiled round the toilet, as tiling under would have meant altering the height of the pan connection.....but if you are starting from scratch, this shouldn't be a problem. However, I spoke with our (my development company's) tiler today and mentioned that some advice on tiling a bath panel was being sought, and he said that nowadays, the best method to use is using a product called 'Wedi board' ( another, similar is Marmox board). This is a dedicated board, produced excusively for making wet rooms and bath panels. It is a totally waterproof, laminated board, available in several thicknesses, ready for tiling, and totally rigid. (The 25 mm should be adequate) It only needs fixing to a suitable framework, or bonding to surrounding walls with silicone. It's what we use for tiled bath panel construction all the time now in our new builds...ply is out of fashion! :lol:





 with links afterwards to several others. I hope this helps. Just as an aside, this board is so rigid, that our fibreglass man made an aerofoil for one of our RIBs (Rigid inflatable boat) out of it!

Here are some photos of the actual board....it looks like a high density, blue foam, reinforced with fibres, with a grey,slightly roughened plastic outer coating, ready for direct tiling.



















This is 25mm (1")...all you should need....










This is 50mm (2") if you need a really strong structure....


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## LJD (Sep 18, 2011)

Ball adhesives are CRAP

Green Plasterboard is CRAP

Use correct backings for tiles. "Hardi" "Wedi" etc

Tiles like that on a bath will look grubby after a bit .

Do not skim anything with plaster near a bath or shower


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

vw1978 said:


> ......I want to tile under the toilet but I'm worried the weight of people sitting on it will crack the tiles. Cheers


If you use proper floor tiles, there's no way they'll crack.....who are you having round...a herd of elephants.... :lol:...Look at countries where they are specialists in the use of tiles...Spain, Portugal, Greece etc....no probs there.......


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