# Broadband Isp's



## albini13 (Jan 25, 2005)

Hi folks,

It's been a while. Anyone got any recommendations for a good unlimited ISP. I'm currently using Virgin medias 2Mb connection at the moment and am seriously considering kicking it in the head, it is pedestrian at best. I'm looking for an ISP that offers an unlimited usage (I know they have the fair usage policy but I think they should scrap that as todays internet users require more than 50GB a month). I've looked at Tiscali and read some horror reviews so I think i'll give them a miss, so i'm now open to suggestion. I'm a heavy internet user (i download a lot and game a lot), any suggestions.

P.S As for the fair usage policy, how can a service that offers 8Mb restrict you to only downloading 40-50GB per month, the net is moving forward yet it seems that ISP's are unwilling to. Booooo to the ISP's


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm interested in suggestions too as even my business BT account is now limited to xyz bandwidth


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

I have been with Tiscali, AOL & Orange (Wandoo) they all have one thing in common, when something goes wrong, which it surely will, then it is a nightmare to sort out. "You get what you pay for" is never more true than in the ISP market.

All the largest providers are wank without exception, uselss telephone support (no tech knowledge), they keep you hanging on forever on 0845 numbers, they will lie rather than tell you the truth and all this is if you can actually get hold of a real live useless git to speak to.

I eventually did a lot of research and plumped for a new ISP, get this, they ring me!!! Same guy every time, superb tech support and as I mostly work from home the extra cost is worth it for the peace of mind knowing that I can get a quick helpful response should something go wrong, which it will.

I would not sign up with one of the majors if it was free.

Fast ISP


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I have been on AOL for some years; supposed to be 8Mbps but never gets past 3.2Mbps and is usually about 2.5Mbps. I don't know anyone who achieves 8Mb on any service, it's a load of misleading bollocks in my opinion. The "fair use" policy does not limit you to a particular number of GB but what they do is limit your download speed during peak times (between about 5.30pm and 11pm) in AOL's case it is around 0.45Mbps!! If you don't use the Internet to download films, music or games during peak times you will be alright, but if you do you will be throttled back. I have been hit a few times and it is bloody frustrating, we use a Lotus Notes system at work with a lot of contained databases, we can replicate these from home using our own ISP and I soon found out that doing this at the wrong time can trigger the "fair use" controls even though my overall Internet usage is quite low.

All ISP's seem to do this now and to be honest it is a frigging nuisance and all suppliers are particularly vague about what triggers the fair use system, I suspect that it is very variable and may also depend on local demand. It is another con IMO. In their conditions AOL state something like "AOL reserves the right to manage the network to the benefit of all" .... how socialist! And it could mean anything









I thought about changing but can no longer be bothered because I am sure they are all pretty much the same


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

JoT said:


> I thought about changing but can no longer be bothered because I am sure they are all pretty much the same


All the majors are, the smaller outfits are not but that good service comes at a price. Here's a good site to get some advice TOP 10 ISP's

Moving anyhwere would be worth it to get rid of the awful AOL interface.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

There's nothing socialist about the fair usage policy John, it's there to excuse the ISPs from providing the service they claim to and keep their costs down. Greedy .


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## albini13 (Jan 25, 2005)

JoT said:


> I have been on AOL for some years; supposed to be 8Mbps but never gets past 3.2Mbps and is usually about 2.5Mbps. I don't know anyone who achieves 8Mb on any service, it's a load of misleading bollocks in my opinion. The "fair use" policy does not limit you to a particular number of GB but what they do is limit your download speed during peak times (between about 5.30pm and 11pm) in AOL's case it is around 0.45Mbps!! If you don't use the Internet to download films, music or games during peak times you will be alright, but if you do you will be throttled back. I have been hit a few times and it is bloody frustrating, we use a Lotus Notes system at work with a lot of contained databases, we can replicate these from home using our own ISP and I soon found out that doing this at the wrong time can trigger the "fair use" controls even though my overall Internet usage is quite low.
> 
> All ISP's seem to do this now and to be honest it is a frigging nuisance and all suppliers are particularly vague about what triggers the fair use system, I suspect that it is very variable and may also depend on local demand. It is another con IMO. In their conditions AOL state something like "AOL reserves the right to manage the network to the benefit of all" .... how socialist! And it could mean anything
> 
> ...


I agree it is certainly to their advantage and I suspect it is to save money on the line rental from BT. If you are close to a BT exchange (within 1km) you should in theory acheive your stated ISP speed. Virgin are terrible I'm clocking speeds close to that of a 56k modem. Anyway... I've just been looking at BT's 8Mb service online and they don't seem to have a fair use policy or a limited download P.M for their premium service. I've just looked at that fast ISP (two posts up), looks good but very pricey considering it's capped. For me the fair use policy is way too vague, and it could be open to abuse by the ISP. A lot of ISP's say that peek times are 9a.m to 11p.m that gives you a 10 hour window to download what you need to download, if you're a gamer you'd better be able to stay up late cause your just gonna get throttled. Very poor.

On a slightly different note I'm also looking at a mobile phone contract. I think some of these companies think you are stupid at times, they offer free gifts and 12 months free line rental only for the next 6 months to cost upwards of Â£40 a month. Unbelievable!!!! I'm still searching.


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## PhilM (Nov 5, 2004)

I'm still with BT but I have to say they are pretty crap :wanker: the service it awfull and my speed varies so much







Supposed to be 8Mb bt I never get more than about 3Mb, only when I ring them up and complain it seems to go up all be it for about a week









Might also be worth looking at this old thread


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## pugster (Nov 22, 2004)

i just moved from pipex to adsl24 ,great service and support on an 8mb line im getting an average of about 4mb now.


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## albini13 (Jan 25, 2005)

pugster said:


> i just moved from pipex to adsl24 ,great service and support on an 8mb line im getting an average of about 4mb now.


Hey pugster, I've just looked at the adsl24 looks impressive, do you know if this service supports xbox live?


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

The relevant bit when referring to an 8mb line speed is "up to"

My current supplier is Entanet supplied by re-seller ukfsn.org which has been great with excellent support.

Various packages to suit all needs... mine is Â£19.99 inc VAT for 300gb/30gb off peak/peak package

Not unlimited - but no FUP caveats, and both UKFSN & Entanet have effective usage meters

PM me for links

- just noticed Pugster recommended ADSL24... they're another re-seller for Entanet

You can check it all out here Think Broadband

They host many isp specific forums including Entanet Entanet Forum and I've always been impressed that the re-sellers contribute to discussions and Enta's own bods don't hide, and will also give their points of view, or explanations, or even apologise if they get something wrong.


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Im on NTL/Virgin 8 cable BBand and its pretty reliable, a mate has upgraded to the 20Mb service and he says its instant......

I dont think you will ever get fast speeds from a phone line.....


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## pugster (Nov 22, 2004)

> Hey pugster, I've just looked at the adsl24 looks impressive, do you know if this service supports xbox live?


not sure tbh, just phone them, its uk based and is probably the best support ive had from any isp.

adsl24 uses entanet aswell ,no traffic shaping or bandwidth throttling


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

jasonm said:


> Im on NTL/Virgin 8 cable BBand and its pretty reliable, a mate has upgraded to the 20Mb service and he says its instant......


When something goes wrong then that is the time when you find out how good your ISP is.


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## albini13 (Jan 25, 2005)

MarkF said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> > Im on NTL/Virgin 8 cable BBand and its pretty reliable, a mate has upgraded to the 20Mb service and he says its instant......
> ...


I agree, Virgin/ntl are pretty good when you can get through to them, the problem I have is it all seems to be Paint by Numbers style script reading. Having sorted out a friends BT HomeHub problems i'm reluctant to go to BT as their customer services are at best average. STan mate are you still a tiscali man? I'd like to hear something positive about them. Winner so far for me is adsl24.


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

MarkF said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> > Im on NTL/Virgin 8 cable BBand and its pretty reliable, a mate has upgraded to the 20Mb service and he says its instant......
> ...


NTL's customer is legendary.... for all the wrong reasons.... there are some pretty extreme examples floating around on the net, but...

maybe the Virgin tie up has tackled this problem area


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

langtoftlad said:


> MarkF said:
> 
> 
> > jasonm said:
> ...


Ther is no point in hoping that any of the majors will improve their cutomer service, it'll never happen. The person you speak to will always be completely useless, it's a call centre thing. The staff will be poorly paid, poorly trained, poorly motivated, uninterested and under severe pressure, like most call centre workers they will be always looking for alternative employment.

I was going mental trying to sort out some mail problems I had with Orange, they very nearly had me believing it was my fault. Then I found this site Orange Problems and everything became clear. I don't believe that Orange are any worse than any of the other majors.


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## albini13 (Jan 25, 2005)

MarkF said:


> langtoftlad said:
> 
> 
> > MarkF said:
> ...


I don't understand why people put up with it, vote with your feet I say. I know it's not the fault of the customer service reps, it's the fault of the company that whips them daily and takes its pound of flesh.


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

With Talk Talk now.

8MB, free calls 24/7.

Now bad views of them by some I agree.

But my reading today was roughly 4mb.

Some folk paying Â£25+ pm for this are getting same speed readings.

I get BB & calls for Â£21 PM.


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

jasonm said:


> Im on NTL/Virgin 8 cable BBand and its pretty reliable, a mate has upgraded to the 20Mb service and he says its instant......
> 
> I dont think you will ever get fast speeds from a phone line.....


I just left Virgin - had 10MB.

But felt I could live with downgrade of 2mb for Â£7pm saving.

Now with Talk Talk.


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## Russ (Feb 7, 2006)

Avoid Tiscali.........you have been warned.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Stan said:


> There's nothing socialist about the fair usage policy John, it's there to excuse the ISPs from providing the service they claim to and keep their costs down. Greedy tossers.


I don't know Stan, they say one thing but really mean another


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## pugster (Nov 22, 2004)

i switched from pipex to adsl24 because of the bandwidth throttling and traffic shaping they have introduced (i 'cough' download a few things now and then  ) ,adsl24 offer 8mb with non of the above for less money (19.99 month),if anyone else's isp uses traffic shaping and you download via bit torrent use the u-torrent client and enable protocol encryption ,it gets round the traffic shaping and the isp's havent caught on to it yet


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## the strap (Feb 21, 2007)

Who says Pipex are doing those things?


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## pugster (Nov 22, 2004)

they have for about a year now ,couldnt find a more recent link ,but pipex sent all customers the revised t+c's ages ago.

this link on wiki also lists pipex as using traffic shaping linky


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## the strap (Feb 21, 2007)

pugster said:


> they have for about a year now ,couldnt find a more recent link ,but pipex sent all customers the revised t+c's ages ago.
> 
> this link on wiki also lists pipex as using traffic shaping linky


Thanks for that. However, I am with Pipex and have not recieved any revised T&C's nor have I knowingly experienced any throttling.. I get around 110KB/sec d/l on what is described as an UPTO 8MB service.. So I am really getting about 1MB.. which I understood was normal. I can't see how they could justifiably restrict me when I am only getting around 1/8 of 8MB.


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## pugster (Nov 22, 2004)

torrent speeds depend on number of seeds (as you prob know) ,traffic shaping takes place under loading and pipex throttle the bandwidth on torrent ports ,they introduced this (i found out about it) just as i renewed my 12 month contract last year







,any isp reproviders that use entranet are better ,like i said now i have a faster line and non of the above for less money than the 2mb pipex package i had before ,with all the isp's that offer 8mb you wont get 8mb, it all depends on distance from exchange,line quality etc, im up to 4.5mb now (it has a 10 day learning curve on what your line can handle).

*edit, if you are downloading at 1mb on an 8mb line with plenty of seeds that says it all


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

I've posted about the diabolical service from BT before, so I won't go there again.

I had to diagnose most of the problems myself. In the end I've hat to scrap wireless all together and disconnect all telephone extensions from the master socket do keep the speed at least in the MB range.

Re-connecting either causes so many errors that the hub throttles the connection down to kB speeds within 24 hours.

I now have a really unattractive RJ40 cable running from the hall to the living room and the hub and phone are stuck behind the sofa, as it's the only way to get all the calbe to reach.

Ignore the sales blurb. Whoever your subscriber is, unless your line is 'perfect' you'll never get near half the quoted speed.


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## pugster (Nov 22, 2004)

stop any downloading and use this in london ,what do you get ?


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

pugster said:


> stop any downloading and use this in london ,what do you get ?


Not sure if that was aimed at me?

I'm getting very good speeds this morning (it's a bank holiday and it's very off-peak). Right now it's a shade under 5Mbps (I'm less than half a mile from a bigish exchange).

If I test it at peak times as-is, it runs at 1.5Mbps or less, if I go back to wireless to the hub it'll be less than 1Mbps at peak times and if I connect any phone extensions, it drops to 250kbps as the Hub 'sulks'.

My hallway looks a mess, wires everwhere and the phone and answerphone on the floor next to the master socket, 'cause I daren't reconnect the hard-wired extensions.


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

Must admit.....although seems to be taboo to do so...but I have been with AOL for years now after very bad experiences with BT and Virgin, I find the AOL service to be reliable and never have issues with speed....if I ever need tech help its always there online live or at the end of the phone fairly immediately.

I may be paying slightly over the odds for it but the "no stress" service I have so far had is well worth it when I read all the other ISP issues that appear to be around still!

Best regards [email protected] this morning


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

And just to prove I wasn't making that up, this is a screenshot of BT Wholesale's 'proper' speed-tester from February 23rd this year, when it was at its worst and I was using wireless and had phone extensions connected (I like to live dangerously







)


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## pugster (Nov 22, 2004)

sorry it was aimed at the strap ,but it shows what your line is capable of (it shows what your line can do and you can then look at the speeds in bit torrent to compare them,a large difference shows throttling) ,i'd seriously consider changing isp's as i'd find the speed differences unacceptable for what you are paying for ,have you thought about running the extentions straight up into the attic and down the other side to get rid of some of the mess of wires everywhere?

im using an extention and a cheap usb modem and downloading a torrent with 50 seeds @350/kbs this morning and am about the same distance as you from the exchange.

*forgot to add i also have a phone plugged in the same socket


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

JoT said:


> Stan said:
> 
> 
> > There's nothing socialist about the fair usage policy John, it's there to excuse the ISPs from providing the service they claim to and keep their costs down. Greedy .
> ...










I'm falling behind, I really need to learn how to interpret spin.


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## the strap (Feb 21, 2007)

I just phoned Pipex and they said I can't have faster speeds for a while cos the exchange is LLU?


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## pugster (Nov 22, 2004)

> I just phoned Pipex and they said I can't have faster speeds for a while cos the exchange is LLU?


do the test above and see what the result is, if it goes over what you are getting then they are throttling your bandwidth (or its high traffic) ,in all truth pipex are bloody usless and will bull**** you anyway they can.


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## the strap (Feb 21, 2007)

pugster said:


> > I just phoned Pipex and they said I can't have faster speeds for a while cos the exchange is LLU?
> 
> 
> do the test above and see what the result is, if it goes over what you are getting then they are throttling your bandwidth (or its high traffic) ,in all truth pipex are bloody usless and will bull**** you anyway they can.


Thanks. Did the test, got 1MB and Pipex said I have a 1MB service. So it turns out I have a 1MB line and I am getting 1MB. My bandwidth is therefore not being throttled.

I hope I am not being bullshitted. Pipex said that cos they use LLU (whatever the hell that is - perhaps when I care to spend the time I'll find out) 1MB is the max for my exchange for now.

To be quite honest, 1MB is fine even for a rampant theif. Surely there's only so much porn you can download?


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

local loop unbundling


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

pugster said:


> stop any downloading and use this in london ,what do you get ?


Where do you click to get the speed test?


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## pugster (Nov 22, 2004)

when all the triangles pop up just click on the gold one (nearest to you)


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

Check here for info on which exchange - not necessarily the nearest (it is BT)

DSL Zone

LLU is the tech term for an ISP/Telecoms company putting their own equipment & lines into a BT exchange.

The speed your line can potentially support is determined by many factors including distance from the exchange. The speed you actually get is also determined by many things including the quality of your own wiring, your modem/router plus contention congestion both at the exchange and/or your isp. Then you add in traffic shaping & all the variants.... Does your isp cache... That's all before you look at the speed of the source you're trying to access be it a game server, or download site.

Sometimes it's amazing anything gets through at all.

The thing is no-one can tell you, its all down to personal experience, trial & error and tweaking. Plus a realistic expectation of the technology despite the hype.

BT wholesale reckons my line is upto 2mb - but actually get slightly over 4mb...

Which is fast enough to d/l an Xvid compressed movie in less than 90mins - which in theory is quick enough for streaming...


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## neil_s (May 29, 2006)

In most older exchanges there is no LLU presence.So even though I am with Plusnet I am still using BT's kit.

I found a good website for UK ISPs called samknows dot com. You can do a phone number lookup and get details about your exchange. Most importantly if any other companies have a LLU presence in the exchange. If I had a choice I would choose a LLU provider that has hardware presence in my exchange to aviod BT all together. At the moment my exchange is scheduled for a BT 21CN upgrade (20M+) in Q3 2008







...

Batheaston Exchange


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## Stanford (Feb 10, 2007)

My old man is with BT and has constant problems. I'm also with BT and find the connection to the ISP regularly fails.

Anyway, he had a BT engineer around to test things out and the engineer let it slip that if you use wireless you are automatically choked (throttled?) down to a max of 4mb, even if the line is actually capable of 8 or more.

If this is true, and he could regularly get 4mbs, it would be outrageous: the fact that he is usually lucky to get half that makes it downright disgusting and daylight robbery.


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

Well that's just not the case - I'm on wireless, and from the right source, can get over 4mb!

Think about it, how would BT/ISP know you had a wireless network? Your router/modem connection to the telephone line is wired...


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## PhilM (Nov 5, 2004)

Well after reading this thread all weekend, decided to call BT and find out what's going one








anyway finally got hold of somebody and they surgested to switch the router off and leave it for a minute. (I always leave mine on normally)

Average speed before: 650Kbps, speed at moment : 6200Kbps.

It seems to have worked, it's so much quicker









Does anybody else leave there router on all the time


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## Robert (Jul 26, 2006)

I did the same with my BT HomeHub last night. Need to do it more often now.


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## PhilM (Nov 5, 2004)

rondeco said:


> Wow good old Phil
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Robert said:


> I did the same with my BT HomeHub last night. Need to do it more often now.


Looks like I will have to take it all back from what I've said about BT


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

I agree









It's a good idea to reboot your router from time to time especially if speeds slow to treacle (just one of the 'tweaks' one learns with experience).

The major ISP's have several 'pipes' and the one you're on can get congested, yet others may have spare capacity, but there seems no automatic way the ISP's can switch individuals to smooth out demand. By rebooting, you gracefully disconnect from the congested central, and re-connect to one hopefully with less users.

I'm with Enta which has a peak/off-peak tariff. Demand at the switch-over to off-peak went mental at 10pm. Enta partially solved the issue by creating an earlier off-peak changeover at 8pm for their Office tariff customers - and users have reported that it's effective to reboot at about 10pm if your speeds seem sluggish.

Of course this won't help if the local exchange itself is near full capacity.

And that seems to be the inevitable problem - capacity. An ISP starts off with plenty of capacity, which fills up & slows down as subscribers join up. It's then an investment decision when to add more capacity to cope with joining subscribers, & keeping existing ones happy enough so they don't leave.

I suspect heavy users are not good customers for any ISP, they'd much rather have the majority who are probably more than impressed to have 2mb speed because their email & web surfing is whizzy. I bet the majority of domestic users don't top 1gb in data transfer monthly.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

it only seems like yesterday the local library were urging locals to contact BT and ask for a broadband exchange as they wouldn't supply one until demand was sufficient.

Give it a few years and we'll all be wizzing along at mega megs of free wifi and wondering what the fuss was all about as our brain cells slowly fry!

then it wll all end, suddenly, as it all becomes unsustainable and the world collapses!









Never has it been more true.

The end of the world is nigh!


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## the strap (Feb 21, 2007)

pg tips said:


> it only seems like yesterday the local library were urging locals to contact BT and ask for a broadband exchange as they wouldn't supply one until demand was sufficient.
> 
> Give it a few years and we'll all be wizzing along at mega megs of free wifi and wondering what the fuss was all about as our brain cells slowly fry!
> 
> ...


Gharwar, Cantarell, Burgan, North Sea, etc are all running half-empty and demand is exceeding supply. Peak oil and gas not a conspiracy but accepted fact.. but no-one dare speak its name for fear of spooking the markets. Demolitions, building bloody seven and a war that will not end in our lifetimes... the war for remaining energy.

Cheap air travel will be the first casualty.. then cars.. then freedom..


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## jaslfc5 (Jan 2, 2007)

im gonna have a rant - all will be explained .

i was with wanadoo for a year it all worked well ,but over xmas started breaking up and would be down for weeks on end ,so when i complained they basically said like it or lump it ,so i lumped it .they would not let me have my mac code to transfer over to sky - as a result it took 3 months to change from wanadoo over to sky of which ive only been on sky for 3 days so far so good 2 laptops and 2 psp's and an ipaq all broadbanding fine.

also with my buisness im with eclipse they are based in exeter brilliant service good speeds and knowledgable when things go boobs up.

so to sum up i swore to orange wanadoo id tell people how rubbish they were and oh boy are they rubbish they are a bunch of [email protected]$ ,they cost me buisness ,alot of time and alot of stress and shouting at my laptop.

rant over.


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## strange_too (Feb 19, 2007)

Personally I use BT, because of where I live and included BT Openzone is worth it for me.

When I had a line problem, I had an engineer out in 2 days.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Just a quick "techie" aside, if I may.

Those of us (and I know there are a few) that use BT's Business services may be interested in this:

http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/210257

Carry on


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## the strap (Feb 21, 2007)

Justy a heads up at the latest bargain I have found...

The good old Poundshop have got 3.0m IXOS braided shield (dissipates EMI and RFI) modem cables for Â£1. I just picked up a couple and my average speeds are up by 20k/sec.. presumably cos the old cables were so poor...


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## PhilM (Nov 5, 2004)

rondeco said:


> rondeco said:
> 
> 
> > Wow good old Phil
> ...


Ron I've got the same problem, spent about 45 mins on the phone to BT last night as the speed just went back down to a piss poor <950Kbps







Anyway they reckon I needed to call the line faults department as I could have a fault on my line







So eventually got through and guess what no fault







Back to broadband department to get told to monitor my speed for a 10 days and then call them again with an update









Needless to say I wasn't too pleased with their answer :wanker:


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