# Jonno England's New Manager



## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Martin Johnson has finally been appointed England manager after months of very unseemly wrangling by Rob Andrew. Brian Ashton has been removed from the head coach position and been offered a position heading up the England academy.

At last .... we can see a way forward ......









It's only taken 5 years









Ashton has conducted himself with dignity which is more than I can say for Rob Andrew and Francis Baron at the RFU, he took on the job as head coach when nobody would touch it and did the best he could .... I hope he takes the job as head of the academy he has been very adept at developing young talent.


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## DaveE (Feb 24, 2003)

JoT said:


> Martin Johnson has finally been appointed England manager after months of very unseemly wrangling by Rob Andrew. Brian Ashton has been removed from the head coach position and been offered a position heading up the England academy.
> 
> At last .... we can see a way forward ......
> 
> ...


I agree with you completely. I think that Brian Ashton has been treated in a very shabby manner. Brian Ashton put England's World Cup campaign back on track after the fiasco that was Andy Robinson. Of course, it could be argued that England's good show in the latter part of the tournament itself was as much down to the senior players as it was down to Brian Ashton. However, England's problems are IMO more down to Rob Andrew and the "old farts" at the RFU than down to the manager. It reminds me a bit of the problems here in Wales after the disastrous World Cup. Gareth Jenkins unceremoniously sacked even before the team got home. The problem here was/is the politics at the WRU. The fact that the coach (Warren Gatland) they selected was obviously the right man for the job in that he has been successful in the 6 Nations doesn't overcome the problems here.

It seems to me that the rugby unions be they RFU or WRU always seek to blame others such as the team or their coach, for their own mistakes


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## PhilM (Nov 5, 2004)

No it's good news for English rugby, he brings a hell of a lot of experience although not much from coaching but he can build a team around him to support him with that... but think it's going to take a couple of years before we're back at the top


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## Nalu (Nov 28, 2003)

NZRFU do the same thing Dave









Jonno is an interesting choice (thanks for the 'heads up' email John!). He knows the Southern Hemisphere game and is an outstanding player. His capabilities as a coach are unknown to me, as someone so far removed from the England rugby scene. I don't see him as the man to take England back to the championship in 2011, but I hope I'm wrong for your sake. I do see him as someone who would be very helpful as an Eagles coach - the largely amateur players in our squad would get more out of a 'been there, done that' type of coach, someone with a work ethic like Jonno. Not that I'm suggesting USA Tugby could afford him


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## Stuart Davies (Jan 13, 2008)

oh dear, heart before head here although I could end up eating my words.

It's been absoultly disgraceful the way BA has been treated - the very man who against all odds took a very ordinary team to the world cup final...

I wish you luck England, I sincerely do!


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Nalu said:


> NZRFU do the same thing Dave
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Colin, Johnno has NO coaching experience!! The position of manager was initially put forward last year to take some of the load off Ashton who would remain in charge of playing matters. The manager was to have been an administrator ..... enter Johnno







.... the manager is now a supremo very much in the same way Clive Woodward was. It will be interesting to see who Johnno appoints as coaches, it is alleged that he approached Sean Edwards and offered him the offensive coach job, Sean to his credit turned it down as he had made a verbal commitment to Wales (I also think he doesn't want to give up his London Wasp's head coach job), Edwards has since signed the contract with Wales.

In the papers and on the various news channels this morning there is not one dissenting voice, unheard of in English rugby. They are also universal in their condemnation of the way Ashton has been treated by Rob Andrew and Francis Baron in particular, his demise has been the worst kept secret in rugby!! I never though Ashton was the right man but he did step into the breach and give England some stability even if the form was very inconsistent.

Interestingly some of the papers are saying taking this job is going to cost Johnno millions in various business/media opportunities ..... glory before cash







I like that !!

And Stuart ..... Wales never treat their head coaches badly do they?







Thanks for the best wishes though!


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## squareleg (Mar 6, 2008)

I think it's great news. Players at international level don't need coaching, they need inspiration; someone to remind them, occasionally, what it's all about. If I was playing for Johnno I'd burst my lungs for him. I'd do the same for Botham. Look what Jimmy Connors did for Andy Roddick - Roddick knows how to hit a tennis ball, he just forgot, momentarily, _why_ he hits tennis balls!

I'm not up on the rest of the politics at the RFU, regarding Rob Andrew and the board etc., but this is a positive step and one which will be appreciated by the players.

Nick

(Edit: typo)


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## Stuart Davies (Jan 13, 2008)

JoT said:


> And Stuart ..... Wales never treat their head coaches badly do they?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi John - can't argue with you there. 

The WRU are prime example of how not to treat a fellow human being. Itâ€™s been absolute disgrace and embarrassment to all Welshmen (and women) alike to see the way they have behaved in the past brining our game the wrone sort of lime-light and becoming the laughing stock of the rygby loving world. I for one stopped going to Internationals for a while as my own personal protest.

Off the point slightly but I always believed Gareth Thomas was the poison in the Welsh camp (especially after that Scrum 5 episode) and so I am really delighted to see the back of him from the international stage. WG & SE won't take any [email protected] from guys like him and so he's been (it would seem) dropped like a stone - believe it or not I NEVER rated him anyway!!!!!

Here's the question: Do you think the likes of Lawrence D â€˜HADâ€™ a similar effect on England to Gareth Thomas in that he was stirring it up and undermining BA? To us across the boarder thatâ€™s how it looked...

Cheers Stu.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Stuart Davies said:


> oh dear, heart before head here although I could end up eating my words.
> 
> *It's been absoultly disgraceful the way BA has been treated* - the very man who against all odds took a very ordinary team to the world cup final...
> 
> I wish you luck England, I sincerely do!


Agreed!!!


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Stuart Davies said:


> Off the point slightly but I always believed Gareth Thomas was the poison in the Welsh camp (especially after that Scrum 5 episode) and so I am really delighted to see the back of him from the international stage. WG & SE won't take any [email protected] from guys like him and so he's been (it would seem) dropped like a stone - believe it or not I NEVER rated him anyway!!!!!
> 
> Here's the question: Do you think the likes of Lawrence D â€˜HADâ€™ a similar effect on England to Gareth Thomas in that he was stirring it up and undermining BA? To us across the boarder thatâ€™s how it looked...


I agree with you about Thomas he always struck me as being someone who would be disruptive and that Scrum V outburst was just astonishing .... as I understand it there were a number of Welsh senior players causing problems ... but at the end of the day a weak head coach will always be vulnerable to this.

To an extent this is what happened with England, Ashton is recognised as a good coach but he isn't a leader. Discipline was also compromised because as brave as Phil Vickery is (check out the number of spinal ops he has had!) he is not really captain material. The accounts that came to light after the RWC make it quite clear it was the senior players rather than Ashton who pulled the team together, and one has to suspect that Lawrence Bruno Nero Dallaglio was probably the ringleader!

One thing for certain is that Johnno will take no nonsense from the players ... what will be interesting will be how he handles Rob Andrew, Francis Baron and the old farts at the RFU

Changing the subject slightly .... my favourite Welshman (Griff is English otherwise he might have qualified  ) .... Ceri Jones, the loose head prop for Harlequins ... he has been immense for us this season and whilst he hasn't grabbed the headlines like Strettle, Easter, Care et al he is my player of the season ... I don't think he has missed a game which is remarkable in the modern age. Why he has played so few games for Wales is beyond me ... and just to complete the Welsh stereotyping  ... his occupation? A sheep farmer :lol:


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## Stuart Davies (Jan 13, 2008)

JoT said:


> and just to complete the Welsh stereotyping  ... his occupation? A sheep farmer :lol:


Bloody typical that but I guess as it was officially announced only a few months ago that there are more sheep than humans in Wales then the chances are quite high :lol:

So a Harlequins fan eh. I saw them last season at Strady Park (home of the Llanelli Scarlets for the benefit of others reading this post ) in the EDF. They were pretty good on the day but collapsed in the last quarter. They've had a really good season so far so I'm lead to believe? What's happened there John has there been some cash injection recently because they've only recently come back into the Premiership havenâ€˜t they?

As for Welsh exiles it would seem that Hal Luscombe has suffered for playing outside the Regions too. WG & SE have said publicly they would not consider players who played outside Wales but in the same breath have given their 'blessing' to Dwayne Peal to move to Sale - whatâ€™s that all about :blink:

Anyway have you heard about next years 6-Nations fixture when Wales are going to play an evening match against France See HERE :huh:

Perhaps we could meet for a beer on Saturday, 14 February for a romantic Wales v England - I'm sure Rachel would love that :lol:

Cheers Stu


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Got an invite to our local RC last weekend for a VP lunch. Nice after dinner speech by David Duckham MBE. Must admit there was a bit of talking amongst the members about Ashton's imminent dismissal so I wasn't suprised by the official announcement, however I'd had a drop too much of the red stuff to get involved in conversation esp as I'm not overly clued up on the subject.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Harlequins .... a season ticket holder for my sins, but as they are the only London club these days ... Wycombe Wasps, Reading Irish and Watford Saracens  all CLAIM to be London clubs I don't know how they have the cheek :lol: We started well but had a dip in the mid season we were woeful in the EDF, Heineken and the Premiership and we lost 11 out of 13 in Nov, Dec and January ... although we did manage to draw with Cardiff ... then we got a scrappy win against Worcester and have been playing some brilliant rugby since ... I just don't get it :lol:

The Quins spent a lot of money developing the Stoop and establishing the academy and both are playing dividends. When I first started going the Stoop was about 5000 capacity it's over 12,000 now and we often sell-out.

The academy has been brilliant under the guidance of Tony Diprose, over 50% of our 1st team players are now home grown youngsters ... it runs on three levels the full time academy for players aged 16+, elite player development for under 16's and two schools of rugby in Sussex and Surrey add to that the Quins host and sponsor a mini-rugby tournament which runs through the season with the kids playing at the Stoop if the weather is good, its not unusual to have a couple of hundred kids and their parents as guests of the club on a match-day.

I haven't seen Wales play for a while, last game was at the old Wembley against Ireland ... a poor game .... and the one before that was against the Springboks in Pretoria in 1998 when the Boks ran up a cricket score. I will let you know if I decide to cross the Severn, maybe try and catch a Scarlets game


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Just when you thought everything at the RFU was settled ........ we find out that Rob Andrew did NOT want Johnno and wanted to keep Ashton! Apparently the management board of the RFU were the ones who insisted. So where does this leave Rob Andrew? As Director of Elite Rugby the board have appointed someone he didn't want ..... more drama to follow yet I think


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## Stuart Davies (Jan 13, 2008)

JoT said:


> Just when you thought everything at the RFU was settled ........ we find out that Rob Andrew did NOT want Johnno and wanted to keep Ashton! Apparently the management board of the RFU were the ones who insisted. So where does this leave Rob Andrew? As Director of Elite Rugby the board have appointed someone he didn't want ..... more drama to follow yet I think


 :blink: ...and I thought these guys were the 'old' farts' - I will watch this space with interest...


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