# Joseph Johnson Liverpool pocket watch



## Gatorade (Oct 20, 2020)

New to the forum and looking for info on a few watches. First is a Josh Johnson Liverpool pocket watch.









































































I also made a video of it






Sorry, thought I could embed.


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## Gatorade (Oct 20, 2020)

I didn't seem to get any replies. I am new here. Did I post this in the wrong area for information? Should it be moved to the pocket watch area? Mods feel free to move if you thing there is a better place to get information.


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Dear @Gatorade, I shall move this thread to the pocket watch section of the Forum. But before I do, may I recommend that you look at the Wikipedia article entitled "Joseph Johnson (watch maker)" and go from there. Indeed, there are many references to Joseph Johnson online and you should be able to gather a good amount of information from these.


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## Gatorade (Oct 20, 2020)

Always said:


> Dear @Gatorade, I shall move this thread to the pocket watch section of the Forum. But before I do, may I recommend that you look at the Wikipedia article entitled "Joseph Johnson (watch maker)" and go from there. Indeed, there are many references to Joseph Johnson online and you should be able to gather a good amount of information from these.


 I have read it but not being familiar with watches it left me more confused on some things. Like was this the original case for it? Is it considered English or American? Would production date go by the movement? Or the case? What years it could be narrowed to? What kind of movement is it? What would be a ballpark value for it?

Some of these may be common knowledge to people in the community but I have no idea.


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## Balaton1109 (Jul 5, 2015)

Gatorade said:


> I have read it but not being familiar with watches it left me more confused on some things. Like was this the original case for it? Is it considered English or American? Would production date go by the movement? Or the case? What years it could be narrowed to? What kind of movement is it? What would be a ballpark value for it?
> 
> Some of these may be common knowledge to people in the community but I have no idea.


 Maybe it's just me, but most here generally find it appropriate to express some thanks for the reply which you did get, and for any degree of research which it entailed.

Regards.


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## Gatorade (Oct 20, 2020)

Balaton1109 said:


> Maybe it's just me, but most here generally find it appropriate to express some thanks for the reply which you did get, and for any degree of research which it entailed.
> 
> Regards.


 First let me say thank you Always "watching" for moving my thread to the correct area and referring me to those pages for information. I realize I had not explained in my original post that I had visited those sites and had been unable to find the information I was looking for. The watch world is tricky to navigate for someone who doesn't know what they are looking at. Sorry if I stepped on some toes in my quest for information regarding the watch I inherited, that was by no means my intention. I thank any and all replies for any information given, for without it I am truest at a loss.


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Dear @Gatorade and @Balaton1109 , I have had a second look online to see what you may have missed with regard to finding relevant information about your watch. I have come across a most helpful site which can be accessed at: oliviastationery.co.uk/johnson_database_170717.pdf. You might not have clicked on this website as it does have a rather strange name, but you have missed a trick by not accessing it. The site provides a wealth of information on surviving Johnson watches and states that, "Most Johnson watches seem to have been exported to the United States when new; Liverpool was the principal port of embarkation for transatlantic journeys, so that the Americas were an obvious market. In order to avoid punitive duties, the watches were mostly despatched in the form of uncased movements, which were cased on arrival by New York craftsmen."

I hope that you will now have the required amount of information you need to place your watch in its historical context and add it to the list of surviving Johnson pocket watches; indeed, your example may actually be one of those listed on the oliviastationery.co.uk website.


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## Gatorade (Oct 20, 2020)

Always said:


> Dear @Gatorade and @Balaton1109 , I have had a second look online to see what you may have missed with regard to finding relevant information about your watch. I have come across a most helpful site which can be accessed at: oliviastationery.co.uk/johnson_database_170717.pdf. You might not have clicked on this website as it does have a rather strange name, but you have missed a trick by not accessing it. The site provides a wealth of information on surviving Johnson watches and states that, "Most Johnson watches seem to have been exported to the United States when new; Liverpool was the principal port of embarkation for transatlantic journeys, so that the Americas were an obvious market. In order to avoid punitive duties, the watches were mostly despatched in the form of uncased movements, which were cased on arrival by New York craftsmen."
> 
> I hope that you will now have the required amount of information you need to place your watch in its historical context and add it to the list of surviving Johnson pocket watches; indeed, your example may actually be one of those listed on the oliviastationery.co.uk website.


 Ah! Excellent site! From what I was able to learn serial number 27842 is dated 1855. So my serial number 27189 was probably made previous to that year. So them being less than 1000 apart can I assume it is probably 1850-1855 production? Also the description of two movements in that serial range are:

"Liverpool runner, 17 jewel; exposed set-up; table" and "17 jewel; table or Massey"

Is my movement similar tho those descriptions?

So also according to that site the original Joseph Johnson lived 1780-1827. Only 47 when he passed but I guess a little of him is in every one of those watches! He had a son also named Joseph Johnson who lived 1808-1836. Only 28! There is a third Joseph Johnson that is listed as the grandson of the original Joseph He lived 1821-1862 41 years old. Reminds us how good we have things now. Three hard working family gentlemen and none of the lived to 50. So if my era is the 1850's then it probably would have been the third generation Joseph Johnson. As you noted it was likely exported from Liverpool as a bare movement. That would explain the Seymour Hoyt case from Brooklyn. He worked in 1817-1865 as a silversmith, jeweler, and watchmaker in New York. As far as I have been told the watch was my Great, great grandfathers he lived 1862-1920 in New York. However the engraving on the back doesn't seem to match his initials, AZ. So is possible it may go back another generation? Was it common for people to buy watches second hand with someone else's initials engraved? Him being born at least 7 years after the movement being made raises a unique set of questions that may never be answered.

Thank you very much for finding that page, it answers a lot of my questions.


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## Danielle johnson (Mar 29, 2021)

Hi there. I have just come to this page as I was doing research on him aswell. He is showing as my 4th great grandfather on my ancestry family tree and I find his story so fascinating. We may be related.


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