# Revue-thommen Chronograph



## SwissWatchFan (Jun 17, 2009)

Hi guys, I am new to this Forum (just joined) and would like to have your opinion. I have, amogst others in my collection a great Oris F1 Williams Chronograph watch and have paid less than Â£1500 for it. Being fanatical about watches and always searching and looking at them on the Internet, I have just come across a Revue-Thommen Chronograph model 16075 which retails for just over Â£3025. The same model, just over a year ago, was retailing for just over Â£2400 (source > Internet > Swisslink). With all respect to this great old Swiss Maison, isnâ€™t the price for this watch a bit over the top?????????

SwissWatchFan.


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## James (Jul 17, 2006)

Prices are inflated through fleabay. For instance a certain Airspeed chrono model, white dial custom for the ebay seller are listed at euro 850-1300 but will take an offer of euro 600 which is still up maybe a couple hundred euro over a year ago I stashed a couple yet on a deal. The RT Crickets with the "cricket" still on the dial are fetching a premium now up maybe euro 600-1200 over a couple years ago but its a cricket 50th anni. The only RT chrono that could retail in the range you say would have to be a Lemania movement and still too high a price regardless.


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## ENY55V (Mar 17, 2006)

James said:


> Prices are inflated through fleabay. For instance a certain Airspeed chrono model, white dial custom for the ebay seller are listed at euro 850-1300 but will take an offer of euro 600 which is still up maybe a couple hundred euro over a year ago I stashed a couple yet on a deal. The RT Crickets with the "cricket" still on the dial are fetching a premium now up maybe euro 600-1200 over a couple years ago but its a cricket 50th anni. The only RT chrono that could retail in the range you say would have to be a Lemania movement and still too high a price regardless.


THERE IS NO CRICKET any longer. The last ones were made in the late 90s by Vulcain. The stock taken over by Grovana was sold out a few years ago. The trademark name has been kept by Vulcain and the current Revue-Thommen can only call the watch "Alarm".


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## ENY55V (Mar 17, 2006)

SwissWatchFan said:


> Hi guys, I am new to this Forum (just joined) and would like to have your opinion. I have, amogst others in my collection a great Oris F1 Williams Chronograph watch and have paid less than Â£1500 for it. Being fanatical about watches and always searching and looking at them on the Internet, I have just come across a Revue-Thommen Chronograph model 16075 which retails for just over Â£3025. The same model, just over a year ago, was retailing for just over Â£2400 (source > Internet > Swisslink). With all respect to this great old Swiss Maison, isnâ€™t the price for this watch a bit over the top?????????
> 
> SwissWatchFan.


Interesting question that actually covers many aspects.

Oris have their own UK distribution and I really think that their watches are excellent value for money considering that Oris is a sponsor for Formula 1 â€" which is not cheap.

There is a certain â€œSwissâ€ idea that if the watch becomes expensive, they will connect more with the â€œrightâ€ public. Zenith made the El Primero movement for the Rolex Daytona for a number of years. The Rolex Daytona used to retail for Â£3,800 â€" while the IDENTICAL Zenith watch used to retail for Â£2,750. Not many took any notice of the Zenith model while there were long queues to buy the Daytona. So, in 2004 Zenith decided to increase their prices THREE times in one single year.

Has this made the Zenith brand more popular? Well, no, not really. Some clever â€œdickâ€ was probably paid a lot of money for this idea and with higher prices and lesser stores someone was able to prove that the idea was a great success (how sad).

Revue-Thommen is NOT Revue-Thommen at all. The current company behind Revue-Thommen is Grovana. A very cheap and cheerful brand that was taken over by the Bitterli family back in 1971. Grovana bought RT in 2000 from Vulcain. The so called in house made GT Caliber automatic movements are assembled by Soprod (a Chinese firm recently sold to Festina). Despite the fact that Grovana and Revue-Thommen claim to be Swiss made watches â€" there is, in fact, little of Swiss in them. They are assembled in Tenniken (full stop).

The current UK distributor that, obviously, knows very little about watches states â€œHand Builtâ€ on their web site. If only Trading Standards were doing their job...... the public would not be so easily taken for a ride.

With all of this information I can tell you that there are actually a few brands out there that â€œhand buildâ€ their watches and use components made in the EEC and not China â€" and will sell their watches, limited edition too â€" for just over Â£3500. Oris is well worth the Â£1500 that you paid for it but Grovana (Revue-Thommen) are struggling to captivate the audiences *with ridiculous high prices especially when their quality is mediocre.*


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

potz said:


> Dunno :huh:
> 
> Usually price is a function of supply and demand:
> 
> ...


 :blink:

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## ENY55V (Mar 17, 2006)

BondandBigM said:


> potz said:
> 
> 
> > Dunno :huh:
> ...


What the wife says "we need idiots to pay the full price to balance the economy"


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Too complicated for me, and too bl**dy dear as well! :grin:


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## James (Jul 17, 2006)

ENY55V said:


> James said:
> 
> 
> > Prices are inflated through fleabay. For instance a certain Airspeed chrono model, white dial custom for the ebay seller are listed at euro 850-1300 but will take an offer of euro 600 which is still up maybe a couple hundred euro over a year ago I stashed a couple yet on a deal. The RT Crickets with the "cricket" still on the dial are fetching a premium now up maybe euro 600-1200 over a couple years ago but its a cricket 50th anni. The only RT chrono that could retail in the range you say would have to be a Lemania movement and still too high a price regardless.
> ...


Actually they are still made and in tradition from Trueman days Barack Obama is receiving his shortly to replace his current chinese piece, even Gorbachev received one. Their site is still up not sure if production is current 2009. Recent models including 2008 range from about 5K-23K with some 18K pink gold versions, production is low the 23K version 150pc each dial case config. When Vulcain started back up RT lost the rights to the Cricket name and correct they called theirs "Alarm", their last included the most important to bear the Cricket name was the 1997 the 50th anniversary pieces. I collect them and have maybe 30 or 40 in storage from the first piece, only reason I collected any RT pieces was for the few 50th versions 

.......


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## James (Jul 17, 2006)

SwissWatchFan said:


> Hi guys, I am new to this Forum (just joined) and would like to have your opinion. I have, amogst others in my collection a great Oris F1 Williams Chronograph watch and have paid less than Â£1500 for it. Being fanatical about watches and always searching and looking at them on the Internet, I have just come across a Revue-Thommen Chronograph model 16075 which retails for just over Â£3025. The same model, just over a year ago, was retailing for just over Â£2400 (source > Internet > Swisslink). With all respect to this great old Swiss Maison, isnâ€™t the price for this watch a bit over the top?????????
> 
> SwissWatchFan.


Anyway, welcome see its your first post.

I have a Revue Thommen & Grovana story, always comes with a story. I was searching for some parts for crickets. I searched Revue Thommen and to make a short story was in the end in touch with Heinz the .grovana.division.mgr. Compiled a list of parts, many are interchangeable to a point with older. He sent them to me stating pay me when you get them. So along came a package with an invoice & his business card. I sent along the money. From that point on a couple years ago I developed respect for the two companies. Any type of customer service is rare but this guy went above and beyond, still answering my questions via e-mail, done business the odd time!

Yes that cost is high I expect. Swiss companies are again going through somewhat what they went through in the 70's, with an uncertain current economy piled on top.

.........


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## SwissWatchFan (Jun 17, 2009)

SwissWatchFan said:


> Hi guys, I am new to this Forum (just joined) and would like to have your opinion. I have, amogst others in my collection a great Oris F1 Williams Chronograph watch and have paid less than Â£1500 for it. Being fanatical about watches and always searching and looking at them on the Internet, I have just come across a Revue-Thommen Chronograph model 16075 which retails for just over Â£3025. The same model, just over a year ago, was retailing for just over Â£2400 (source > Internet > Swisslink). With all respect to this great old Swiss Maison, isnâ€™t the price for this watch a bit over the top?????????
> 
> SwissWatchFan.


Many thanks guys. I am just a fanatic that doesn't really know much about them at the moment. It is only more recently that my increasing obsession has led me to look at watches longer and harder and I was astounded by the hundreds/thousands?? of makes/brands out there. I just find it strange how some brands, that 99% of the general public will have never heard of, command such ridiculously high prices for their watches setting prices even much higher than the mainstay Omega/Rolex/Tag/Oris's etc.. of the world??

I love my Tag/Omega/Oris watches and they seem like real good investments when I look at some of the other very expensive but, none-established brands???

SwissWatchFan


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## ENY55V (Mar 17, 2006)

Dear James,

I don't want this to become a debate on who is right and who is wrong.

When you say Heinz you are probably talking about Heinz Schweizer - Grovana sales and marketing manager. Any Swiss will bend over to sell you anything.

There is a recent booklet from Grovana/Revue-Thommen with the history of the company. Yes, we all know that a few cricket watches went to American Presidents. The booklet does, in fact, state that Vulcain entire stock and inventory was bought by Grovana.

This is why up to 2004 and 2005 we saw loads of Revue-Thommen watches (old models and stock) sold on eBay (mainly Germany) for around Â£85. Grovana also had Cricket original stock which was entirely sold by 2006 for around Â£350 a piece. The odd dealer here and there might still have a Cricket in stock but - you should know - the back case must have - 1997 - + the serial number - and the model number 8010005 - as these were the last "proper" Cricket made by Vulcain.

Revue-Thommen might have the tools for the original Cricket but cannot call it so - hence we now have only the Revue-Thommen alarm. Barack Obama will have a Revue-Thommen Alarm - if he is really getting one but would have thought that the Truman and Eisenhower days have long gone and Barack Obama would have more taste and be wiser than wearing such piece of "junk".

What the booklet doesn't tell you is that most of Grovana/Revue-Thommen products are actually made in China and a combination of the old Vulcain tools and Chinese components are used to make up the current range of products.

In every company there is, usually, a helpful individual. Grovana/RT is no exception and you were lucky with Heinz. Most businesses mean well when they start and it also important who actually runs the business. Grovana didn't pay a lot for RT from Vulcain and for a few years they carried on with reasonable quality products (the one on their catalogue) while they were still getting a steady and reasonable supply from ETA. They sold the old Vulcain (RT) stock and recovered the money invested until - ETA became a problem and Grovana/RT was taken over by the son Christopher.

Basically, it is only partially true what is said in the RT history booklet.


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## Barryboy (Mar 21, 2006)




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## James (Jul 17, 2006)

Interesting, love discussing these pieces.

There were more than just the 8010005 model " the last proper cricket ". The last digit refers to the case dimensions. That came in a few color variations. Also for the 50th anni was the 8010007 the larger cased version, see a pic of one of mine below. Also for the 50th was the enamel dialed piece of different case type.










I don't regard these myself though as the last proper cricket. Take for example my 1998.










Actually Obama did not get a Revue Thommen Cricket or Alarm. It was the new Vulcain Anniversary Heart in 18K pink. Apparently a 150 anni piece to celebrate I believe Vulcain's history. I have a fetish for the Vulcain movement, many have tried but no one has duplicated the loudness and duration of them with many model reaching in my experience 27 seconds


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## ENY55V (Mar 17, 2006)

James said:


> Actually Obama did not get a Revue Thommen Cricket or Alarm. It was the new Vulcain Anniversary Heart in 18K pink. Apparently a 150 anni piece to celebrate I believe Vulcain's history. I have a fetish for the Vulcain movement, many have tried but no one has duplicated the loudness and duration of them with many model reaching in my experience 27 seconds


If Vulcain is in Liquidation - not much good to Obama !! :lol:


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## ENY55V (Mar 17, 2006)




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## James (Jul 17, 2006)

For those interested here is my review of last years 08 ETA version Grovana, very in depth. You can still find the smaller cased version about if you seek, mostly left with green bezel now. Enjoy the review. Very solid cases and movement holder, no plastic here and kind of a unique design

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?s...&hl=grovana

......


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## ENY55V (Mar 17, 2006)

James said:


> For those interested here is my review of last years 08 ETA version Grovana, very in depth. You can still find the smaller cased version about if you seek, mostly left with green bezel now. Enjoy the review. Very solid cases and movement holder, no plastic here and kind of a unique design
> 
> http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?s...&hl=grovana
> 
> ......


Read your review - well done but "out of date" considering other Grovana developments.

I don't know who you are and I have no wish to step on anyone's toes! Just a small word of advice to the readers - search the Internet to find other reviews about this watch. Say no more.


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## dapper (Jun 18, 2004)

ENY55V said:


> ....................but Grovana (Revue-Thommen) are struggling to captivate the audiences *with ridiculous high prices especially when their quality is mediocre.*


These diatribes about Revue Thommen contain elements that are highly misleading, particularly the red highlighted statement above.

I've owned two Swiss Made RT Pilot watches (two versions of the same model) for a couple of years. From my _actual experience_ of these watches I can tell you that the quality is not 'mediocre' but as good as all other mass produced Swiss brands, without exception, available on UK High Streets.

There's a generally held belief about the quality 'ranking' of watches which is really just based on pricing eg. '......Oris are good but not as good as Omega, Omega are good but not as good as Rolex.........' etc etc. The reality is that there's very little difference in actual quality between them.

This perception of differences is partly based on brand market positioning and partly on the consumers' viewpoint - someone spending Â£2k on a watch 'needs' to believe that they are buying better quality than one costing Â£1k but, of course, it's not always true.

And another thing, 'Swiss Made' doesn't mean that every every aspect has to be Swiss. The tight specifications required to use the term allow for 'foreign' sourcing of parts and materials. These days, it's highly probable that _all_ Swiss brands have some degree of connection with Chinese facilities and are non the worse for it.

Cheers


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## James (Jul 17, 2006)

Mr. Dapper chips in 

Anyway regarding the Grovana reviews. Only ones that really come up are some done by me around the net and one done by Colin, that are in depth. The SW200 one I did was prior to the ETA version I reviewed. The later SW200 builds are cleaner than the first prototypes. Also dealers may order with either version I am to understand

But get an RLT, guys been around a bit 

.....


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## Badger (Jan 5, 2004)

dapper said:


> ENY55V said:
> 
> 
> > ....................but Grovana (Revue-Thommen) are struggling to captivate the audiences *with ridiculous high prices especially when their quality is mediocre.*
> ...


I couldn't agree more. Wise words, well put.

Regards

Dave


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