# Fake Ploprofs



## Nalu

I've just read on a private dive watch forum that there are fake Omega Ploprofs coming out of Viet Nam. The Forum owner posted convincing photos which I will get him to send to me and post here so all can be forewarned. As if the SM300 problem wasn't bad enough...









If anyone has any question about the provenence of a PloProf they are looking at, feel free to contact me via email and I'll be happy to consult. I'll also get more pictures made up for the Photo Gallery when I get home so that a reference will be readily available.


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## Roy

Thnak You for bringing it to our attention Colin.


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## bry1975

Roy,

Have you ever handled the mighty Plongeur









They look very well made watches, the type you would take to the depths of the oceans.


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## trym

- I was one of the first buyers of the asian recased Omega 300 and it just felt all wrong when I got it in my hands........ sold it as a fake case 300 to a collector for the same price (500 us$) they even misspelled the text on the back saying "certifed" iso "certified". I have been on the hunt for a ProPloff for years.. and now I even have to worry about those!!!

- But the seller was German fellow living in Bangkok LOL









Watch out guys - an offer too good to be true often is.

Was just in Bangkok and saw a beautiful replica Panerai with a genuine ETA caliper allmost as good the original - even with swan neck regulation !! Be carefull out there


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## Nalu

bry1975 said:


> Roy,
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> Have you ever handled the mighty Plongeur
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> They look very well made watches, the type you would take to the depths of the oceans.
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They really are excellent watches - particularly attractive if you value a watch useful in a dustup









I just made an offer on an original-dial Ploprof and discovered this revolting development in the process of doing my reasearch. They are easy to spot if you know what to look for and I'm sure they have the wrong feel.

As above, the Panny fakes are getting extremely difficult to spot even for serious Paneristi


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## DynamiteD

I was in my local watch specialist recently and he showed me a watch he had in for repair.

It was a lovely-looking Panerai, but on closer inspection it was obviously fake.

He told me it belonged to an ex-Premiership footballer (with a 'hard man' reputation) and that he owns dozens of fakes which he wore for after dinner speaking, social engagements etc.

I'm sure he can afford the real thing so he has no excuse. I'm glad I don't support West Ham (or Liverpool, Palace, Southampton, Spurs...)







I was tempted to take a 'razor' to it









I was, however, more annoyed with the watch repairer for happily looking after them for him in the full knowledge they are fakes. How do we stand on watch repairers fixing fakes? Is it just the dodgy ones, or do most of them just not want to turn away work?


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## pg tips

would you turn away work from a rich client?


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## raketakat

DynamiteD said:


> It was a lovely-looking Panerai, but on closer inspection it was obviously fake.
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I wonder if he keeps his genuine watches safely locked up and wears the fakes instead for security reasons







?


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## rsykes2000

DynamiteD said:


> I'm sure he can afford the real thing so he has no excuse. I'm glad I don't support West Ham (or Liverpool, Palace, Southampton, Spurs...)
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> I was tempted to take a 'razor' to it


I like 'subtle' hints like that, I'm sure most people on the board who are even vaguely interested in football can figure it out









Pathetic though, I can't afford the real thing (and not convinced I'd want a Panerai anyway), but I wouldn't wear a fake, as it would make me feel a charlatan, pretending to be something I'm (quite clearly) not.


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## Nalu

It's happened: the first fake Ploprof has appeared on eBay









If the moderators will permit it, I will post the item number so to serve as a learning experience for everyone. I can point out the long list of variances which will help anyone nail a fake at a glance.


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## scottishcammy

Had a look through the net as I've never seen one before...that's one chunky watch!









Are they still in production? (The real ones that is!).


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## jasonm

Go for it Colin







a link to it would be ok as well...



> Are they still in production? (The real ones that is!).


Not for a long time now.....


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## Nalu

Long gone. I believe they were produced for about 4-5 years in the 70's (if I had better net access, I could check through Omega's vintage service).

If you like older diver watches, Roger Reugger has a great site with photos and a short history. Of course, someday the RLT Photo Gallery will supercede Roger's photo collection if I have anything to say about it


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## Nalu

OK folks, here's the item number of the bogus Omega Seamaster 600 ("Ploprof"): #5058035660

Fortunately for us, the seller has provided plenty of pictures so we can nail down the hallmarks of a fake Ploprof. As far as I am aware, there is only one source for fake Ploprofs, so they all have the following characteristics.

1. The case recess for the crown is C-shaped when looked at from the front. It should be U-shaped (and C-shaped when examined from the back).

2. The recesses of the hidden lugs are rough, as if the case were cast instead of milled. Similarly with the recesses on the edge of the bezel.

3. The red button which locks the bezel is tapered and a darker red than the orginal. It should not have a taper to it. IOW, it should be a cylinder, not a truncated cone.

4. The bezel minute markers are too large and unevenly spaced and the triangle is too thin (should be the same thickness as the 5/15/25/etc. markers). Difficult to detect without a side by side comparison. The bezel will just look not quite right and you may think it's the photography - it's not.

5. The font of the numbers on the bezel is wrong. Easiest spot is the four in "40". A real PloProf will have a flat-topped "4", the spurious one has a pointy-topped "4".

6. The hands are wrong.

a. Second hand from a Speedy (I think, where's Neil?)

b. Minute hand is too red and the lume area is subtly smaller.

7. The writing on the dial at 6 o'clock is incorrect. AFAIK, there are only two dial versions: the original (very rare these days) and the newer one. The original lists the depth rating as 600, with the 600 the last of 3 lines:

Professional

_Seamaster_

600

The newer one lists the depth rating in meters and feet (600m/2000ft) as such:

_Seamaster_

600m/2000ft

Professional

The fake dial says 600 as with the original dial, but the 600 is the second of three lines:

_ Seamaster_

600

Professional

8. You will never see a fake on an original Omega mesh bracelet. The lugs are too narrow to take it. Fakes appear on an original link or aftermarket strap/bracelet only.

9. The lume on the dial is falsely yellowed to create a vintage/aged effect.

I'm sure there are other things I'm missing, but this should be a start for anyone needing to spot a bogus PloProf.

I emailed this seller, telling him the watch was not genuine. I've not heard back. His response should be interesting and telling.


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## Nalu

scottishcammy said:


> Had a look through the net as I've never seen one before...that's one chunky watch!
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> Are they still in production? (The real ones that is!).
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The cal 1002 was produced '69-'79. I believe it was used in the PloProf only a fraction of those years (Omega used it in 4 other models in that period).

I found one source who reported the PloProf was made from '70-'77, but he's pretty spurious himself - even misspelled the nickname of the watch:

"PluProf on Mesh" (sic)

And the link to the bogus watch on eBay:

Vietnamese PloProf


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## pg tips

Thanks for the heads up and detailed info Colin.

"ploprop or costueu"
















the fake one with the real one in rlt gallery below


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## JoT

Nalu said:


> I emailed this seller, telling him the watch was not genuine. I've not heard back. His response should be interesting and telling.
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There are a group of us who have been trying to drive fake Airman off E-Bay ... we have had little success contacting even "respectable" looking sellers. We took to contacting the bidders, this worked well, but now the sellers are conducting private auctions so we don't know who is bidding









We also report them to E-Bay (who do naff all unfortunately) and post "Fake Alerts" on the Glycine forum.


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## ESL

I'm confused - not that it takes much mind you









But I have seen "real" ploprofs with the crown on the right, and on the left.

Did Omega make them both ways around?

(See my signature







)


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## jasonm

George, I think it is easy enough to turn the dial around in the case to create a left or right handed button one, Im not sure if they came either or from the factory, I doubt it...


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## mach 0.0013137

Interesting information and no doubt the real thing is a special watch but I`m sorry to say it does absolutely nothing for me, pug ugly watch IMVVVVHO


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## johnbaz

hi all

i've just clicked on the link to find the auction has been ended early due to an error in the listing









john.


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## jasonm

Horah for the good guys!!


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## Isthmus

Come on trym, please ease up on the comments. While it's true that the majority of today's fakes originate somewhere in asia (with the bulk coming out of china), this practice hardly originated or is exclusive to asian people. A more appropriate comment would be "damned counterfeiters".


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## jasonm

Sorry, Isthmus, missed that, your absolutly right, Ive edited Tryms post....


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## trym

Isthmus said:


> Come on trym, please ease up on the comments. While it's true that the majority of today's fakes originate somewhere in asia (with the bulk coming out of china), this practice hardly originated or is exclusive to asian people. A more appropriate comment would be "damned counterfeiters".
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S O R R Y guys!

You are absolutely right Isthmus - my intention was never to deliver a racist comment about Asians, but to curse producers, sellers and buyers of fake watches. My point being that as a matter of fact brand name counterfeit of all kinds is flooding out of Asia at the moment - Damned that and them!!









I really really hate fake reproductions of hard to get vintage watch classics as I just love the originals so much.









Hope this straighten that out.









Cheers

Trym


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## Nalu

ESL said:


> I'm confused - not that it takes much mind you
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> But I have seen "real" ploprofs with the crown on the right, and on the left.
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> Did Omega make them both ways around?
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> (See my signature
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The watch can be assembled in two ways, with the pusher either on the left or the right, by rotating the dial 180 degrees. There is much debate about whether this is true or not, but I now know it to be true. How is that? Well after the above archived picture was taken I had to send my lefty PloProf off to STS for a service. Lo and behold, it returns as a righty (and the receipt only remarks on movement cleaning/service and seal replacement).


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## JonW

Blimey Colin youve got two of em! I assume one is a black dial and the other blue? I dont think ive ever seen a black dial version. One day Im gonna get me one of these, whilst others think theyre ugly I love em!


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## Nalu

The PloProf on the right (again, sorry for the size of the photos, I've not got this Photobucket sussed out yet) is an original dial I found last fall and bought - very hard to find. It's the Single Red Sea-Dweller of the Omega SMP600 world.

The dial is blue, it's just faded and slightly blistered. While I can't be positive about it (like I am about the left/right handed PloProfs), I'd bet a paycheck that there is no such thing as a black dial PloProf. I think it's an artifact of the difficulties of photographing a dark blue dial in certain lighting conditions, with help from digicam white balance problems. I've seen lots of SMP600s over the years and communicated with even more owners - no one has ever seen or owned a black dial PloProf.

More photos coming up of all of these watches and more. I've got to do some editing first.


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## JonW

Ahh makes sense to me, id not seen a black dial ever so did wonder. So what youre saying is that the one on the left has a later dial and there are two versions of the Ploprof - one with ft on the dial one without... interesting...

Another interesting thing is that the fakes alluded to in this thread seem to have dried up of late... which must surely be a good thing!


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## hakim

I think you can also clearly rough machining on the fake watch. The whole case has been turned and cut quite roughly where as Colins Ploprofs look perfect. Also the grooves on the fake watch are very rough too.

By the way, nice watches Colin. I prefer the middle one though







. Nice chunky beast!


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## JonW

I think the fake cases are cast with the lost wax method which means the groves would be 'bitty', if theyd been machined theyd be nice and sharp.

Lots of hassling about fakes on the Paneristi forum this week... but then almost all Panerai have been faked, some before the real watch has been released! scary....


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## eieio

JonW said:


> I think the fake cases are cast with the lost wax method which means the groves would be 'bitty', if theyd been machined theyd be nice and sharp.
> 
> Lots of hassling about fakes on the Paneristi forum this week... but then almost all Panerai have been faked, some before the real watch has been released! scary....


New watch forum partcipant here! Read the posts here re: real vs fake Ploprofs.

Mr. Nalu/Colin, for whatever reason, even though i'm "approved and registered" properly here on the RLT Watch Forums, it will not let me email or private message, so i have to ask questions here this way. Maybe you won't mind emailing me directly?

There is the issue of the date wheel being made SPECIFICALLY for the Ploprof or an Omega date wheel for other Omega watches. the issue, as i understand it, is that there are 31 days to the month, that being an odd number, there's not way to CENTER the date in the date window at BOTH the 3 and the 9 o'clock positions. Apparently, as i understand it, one can either have a date wheel that centers at 3 or at 9, but not both. so if you do NOT have a date wheel specifically made for the Ploprof at hand, and you have to change the date wheel, then you put in the general Omega date wheel and put the crown o the right side. should you be lucky enough to have a date wheel that is specially made for the Ploprof, then you can properly put the crown on the left.

i also can't tell if the circular brushed grain on the case is proper or not from photography. i have the possibility to purchase one but i cannot tell from the photography.

the bracelet on the watch is a 3 link bracelet, not the mesh. you indicated on one of your posts that that is one of the signs of a fake Ploprof. i have seen official Omega published photographs with the Ploprof on the 3 link bracelet, so the "mesh bracelet test" is one test, but not a conclusive one, as you have already carefully pointed out.

i'm still a bit lost as to how to tell definitively. your comment about the C vs U of the crown indentation is a GREAT point.

thank you so much.

might you be able to email me directly so i can respond via private email?

thanks in advance.


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## Nalu

I'm resurrecting this thread for the 'worst' of reasons: fake Ploprofs and Ploprofs with mixed real and fake components continue to show up in the WIS world. Also, since I've learned a lot more about both genuine and bogus Ploprofs since I started this thread three years ago, it's time for an update. Note that some of the information I posted earlier in this thread has turned out to be inaccurate. As such, some of this info may turn out to also be inaccurate. I'm trying my best, but _caveat emptor_.

First up is a Ploprof with a fake bezel. Dial and hands look fine on this one, the case is very suspicious:










Next is a fake dial and case with genuine bezel and hands:



















And finally, a completely bogus Ploprof set up as an 'inversee'. It is my opinion that the fakes may in fact use a real Omega cal. 1002 movement. Because of the date wheel issue, which JonW has demonstrated nicely, a cal. 1002 movement will require that the fake be set up as an 'inversee' unless the Ploprof date wheel for the 1002 movement is available. The implication is that fakes set up correctly (with the crown on the left) may very well contain a real 1002 movement with a real Ploprof date wheel.


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## jasonm

Great update info Col, cheers..

One day I hope to use all this 'learning' on a purchase!


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## DaveE

Thanks for the heads up Colin


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## squareleg

Nice one, Colin. Isn't this place great?


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## PhilM

squareleg said:


> Nice one, Colin. Isn't this place great?


Yes for information but not for your bank balance


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## hikingcamping

Thanks for all these very useful information :shocking: ! I am planning a trip to Malaysia and Singapore soon with the hope of stopping by Dubai, and Seamaster is first on my lists, should I be worried when buying from airport dutyfree shops?


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## BondandBigM

hikingcamping said:


> Thanks for all these very useful information :shocking: ! I am planning a trip to Malaysia and Singapore soon with the hope of stopping by Dubai, and Seamaster is first on my lists, should I be worried when buying from airport dutyfree shops?


Not at all, I have been in all three duty free shops in these airports. I have to say though Singapore is the place to buy, there are so many watch shops that you get a better price than even in the duty free shops which tend to sell to people passing through so prices aren't as cheap as they might be. There was a 5% sales tax in Singapore but you can reclaim that at the airport on your way out.










But beware in Malaysia you definately don't want to buy anything from these guys :lol:


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## mrteatime

BondandBigM said:


> But beware in Malaysia you definately don't want to buy anything from these guys :lol:


love you long time mister $5 dollar


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## Guest

mrteatime said:


> BondandBigM said:
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> love you long time mister $5 dollar
Click to expand...

I take it youve Eric Morcombe in the photo


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## Nalu

Another FrankenProf has appeared on ePray (#280249221983). Real dial and hands, fake bezel and case on this one. See Deskdivers.com for our guide to fake ploprofs, but in short:

*Bezel* problems:

1. Numbers are too close together.

2. Font is incorrect: long flag on the "1", narrow-topped "5".

3. NO LUME! I've long suspected this was the case, but a seller has never posted a lume shot before.

4. Ridges on the side of the bezel are wrong: lands aren't parallel and grooves are rough-finished (see #2 below).



















*Case* problems:

1. All top edges are sharp, none are bevelled.

2. Grooved area on back looks raised instead of being part of the case. Area between ridges has a rough appearance, as if the case is cast instead of milled and the hollows were never finished. The lug recesses also have this typical appearance (not seen in this auction's photos, but photos of the fake case lug recesses are posted elsewhere).

3. C-front. All fake cases are C-fronts, not all C-fronts are fake however. The C-front on the fake cases tends to look a bit 'splayed', a real C-front won't have poor workmanship like this.


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## bunchie32

Nalu said:


> Another FrankenProf has appeared on ePray (#280249221983). Real dial and hands, fake bezel and case on this one. See Deskdivers.com for our guide to fake ploprofs, but in short........


well, someone is going to get burnt to buggery on that one. it's already over Â£3k!


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## mjolnir

I wouldn't have been able to tell this one from the real thing. I've noticed that some fakes have obvious differences that just stick out at you but this would certainly have fooled me.

I'm unlikely to be in the market for a PloProf (unfortunately... bit out of my league) but if I ever am it's good to know there are experts out there who can pick out the tiny faults.


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## Stanford

Thanks again, Colin

Your posts are not only helpful in that they alert us to problem watches, but more so because you go to the trouble to explain why :thumbup:


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## Nalu

Rob, have a look at the real bezel below and compare to the one above:



















It's much easier when you have photos to compare side by side.


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## Bill_uk

now that shows what a fake the other is


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## thunderbolt

bunchie32 said:


> Nalu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another FrankenProf has appeared on ePray (#280249221983). Real dial and hands, fake bezel and case on this one. See Deskdivers.com for our guide to fake ploprofs, but in short........
> 
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> 
> well, someone is going to get burnt to buggery on that one. it's already over Â£3k!
Click to expand...

Finally sold tonight for a shade under Â£4900.  Buyer from the US.


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## mrteatime

h34r: h34r:



thunderbolt said:


> bunchie32 said:
> 
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> Nalu said:
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> Another FrankenProf has appeared on ePray (#280249221983). Real dial and hands, fake bezel and case on this one. See Deskdivers.com for our guide to fake ploprofs, but in short........
> 
> 
> 
> well, someone is going to get burnt to buggery on that one. it's already over Â£3k!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Finally sold tonight for a shade under Â£4900.  Buyer from the US.
Click to expand...

 h34r: h34r:


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## Bill_uk

i been in touch with the buyer to warn him as he is new to ebay and he may join the forum


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## jaja625

Bill_uk said:


> i been in touch with the buyer to warn him as he is new to ebay and he may join the forum


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## Bill_uk

welcome jaja


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## jaja625

Bill_uk said:


> welcome jaja


Good to be here. I just was trying to modify my last post but it didn't work. Thanks again for the help and I'd like to post pics from the first Ploprof I bought back in May for your review. As soon as I figure out how to do that I put them up.

Once again, I truely appreciate the help!

John.


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## Bill_uk

Hi John

Click 4 help with pics

hope this helps


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## jaja625

jaja625 said:


> Bill_uk said:
> 
> 
> 
> welcome jaja
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> 
> Good to be here. I just was trying to modify my last post but it didn't work. Thanks again for the help and I'd like to post pics from the first Ploprof I bought back in May for your review. As soon as I figure out how to do that I put them up.
> 
> Once again, I truely appreciate the help!
> 
> John.
Click to expand...

Here we go (I hope this doesen't hurt too much). I haven't heard back from Bienne and I'd say they'd notify me pretty quick if they deemed it fake but who knows. The pics aren't very good but the watch looked original and "used" when it arrived.

Original Ebay Listing


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## Stanford

jaja625 said:


> jaja625 said:
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> Bill_uk said:
> 
> 
> 
> welcome jaja
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> 
> 
> Good to be here. I just was trying to modify my last post but it didn't work. Thanks again for the help and I'd like to post pics from the first Ploprof I bought back in May for your review. As soon as I figure out how to do that I put them up.
> 
> Once again, I truely appreciate the help!
> 
> John.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here we go (I hope this doesen't hurt too much). I haven't heard back from Bienne and I'd say they'd notify me pretty quick if they deemed it fake but who knows. The pics aren't very good but the watch looked original and "used" when it arrived.
> 
> Original Ebay Listing
Click to expand...

Welcome :rltb:

The pictures are a bit small for me to express an opinion, and anyway, as you will have gathered, there are others who are extremely well informed on this watch (and others).

I hope you get the news you want from Bienne :yes:


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## dickstar1977

on Honeymoon at the mo, having a pool day due to excessive sun and drinking yesterday! My PP has come with me and been diving everyday, it even held up whilst skin diving yesterday! well done Ploprof!!

Cheers Tom


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## jaja625

Bill_uk said:


> welcome jaja


THANKS TO BILL AND OTHERS!! You guys saved my a$$ on the fake PP the Italian was trying to unload. He and Ebay contacted me and we have mutually agreed to not follow through with the transaction. Nice way to put it but it's pretty pathetic that even after Ebay knew it was fake they continued the auction.

Cheers to all and have a great weekend. One more thing, it's been my lucky week (I must be doing something right) since after I dealt with the PP issue I located and purchased a Tag 1000m Super Professional. New, unused with all stickes, boxes, papers, etc. Mine was stolen or maybe "inadvertantly picked up" during some late night bachelor party activities in Vegas last year. I been searching for a replacement ever since. Life is good.

Thanks again!


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## Stuart Davies

Great news all round Jaja - there are good and very knowledgeable people here... :rltb:

Welcome to The Watch Forum.. Looking forward to seeing some pics on you new acquisition.


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## bunchie32

i'm so glad this worked out ok.

i hate it when people get stiffed on ebay.....


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## Bill_uk

jaja625 said:


> Bill_uk said:
> 
> 
> 
> welcome jaja
> 
> 
> 
> THANKS TO BILL AND OTHERS!! You guys saved my a$$ on the fake PP the Italian was trying to unload. He and Ebay contacted me and we have mutually agreed to not follow through with the transaction. Nice way to put it but it's pretty pathetic that even after Ebay knew it was fake they continued the auction.
> 
> Cheers to all and have a great weekend. One more thing, it's been my lucky week (I must be doing something right) since after I dealt with the PP issue I located and purchased a Tag 1000m Super Professional. New, unused with all stickes, boxes, papers, etc. Mine was stolen or maybe "inadvertantly picked up" during some late night bachelor party activities in Vegas last year. I been searching for a replacement ever since. Life is good.
> 
> Thanks again!
Click to expand...

Hi John

very glad to here that Flebay and the seller agreed to sort it amicably and that you saved your cash, cant wait to see you posting your pics mate

Bill


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## Nalu

Glad Bill contacted him as I was offline last week when the auction ended and couldn't email until a couple of days later. By the time I did, jaja already had it sorted. I'm concerned that this may have gone to a "2nd offer" or may reappear with a private bidders list. What did eBay say/admit to about the watch being a franken?

The May Ploprof was genuine, very nice, and very complete. I watched that auction closely because of all the accessories which came with it.


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## jaja625

Nalu said:


> Glad Bill contacted him as I was offline last week when the auction ended and couldn't email until a couple of days later. By the time I did, jaja already had it sorted. I'm concerned that this may have gone to a "2nd offer" or may reappear with a private bidders list. What did eBay say/admit to about the watch being a franken?
> 
> The May Ploprof was genuine, very nice, and very complete. I watched that auction closely because of all the accessories which came with it.


Typical Ebay...they said nothing just fired emails at me for payment until the seller agreed the remove it. Thanks again for the concern and I'll put up Tag 1000m pics soon. I'm really anticipating the return of my Ploprof from Bienne. I should have sent it off in May when I bought it but I just couldn't part with it too soon. That watch is awesome!

Cheers.


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