# Bl**dy E**y!



## chris l (Aug 5, 2005)

I bin stung; what I bought was this...

"SEIKO SCUBA DIVERÂ´S AUTOMATIC 7S36 JAPAN 23 JEWELS"

Item number: 160295625795

What I got was this




























What the hell do I have? A total Franken? A fake?

All opinions gratefully received...

(I'm disappointed, and no reply to three emails isn't helping...)

Obviously it would be inappropriate to post the sellers details in an open forum...


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## jaslfc5 (Jan 2, 2007)

i was told by twickersdude a few months ago not to buy off that trader on ebay and he has posted on scwf telling people not to buy off him i almost bought a bullhead and im so glad i didnt. im sure mr t will be along soon to tell you how sh/t this guy is he recently bought one off himand it was barly a watch by all accounts..

all i can say is either write it off or get it modded ,but you wont get any refund as theyve done this a 1000 times sadly .

jason.


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## mrteatime (Oct 25, 2006)

jaslfc5 said:


> i was told by twickersdude a few months ago not to buy off that trader on ebay and he has posted on scwf telling people not to buy off him i almost bought a bullhead and im so glad i didnt. im sure mr t will be along soon to tell you how sh/t this guy is he recently bought one off himand it was barly a watch by all accounts..
> 
> all i can say is either write it off or get it modded ,but you wont get any refund as theyve done this a 1000 times sadly .
> 
> jason.


fug it! yep....i was lucky....i bought mine just to mod.......let me guess...

painted dial

scratched to **** crystal (dont worry tho, coz its the wrong one for it anyway)

missing xtal gasket

fug it....i could go on.....

you have defo got a franken.....but as long as your case is in reasonable nick and the movt goes, then get it modded....if not....

mike newby is a demon at sorting this sort of stuff out......


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## mrteatime (Oct 25, 2006)

oh yeah....seller is

SPEEDTIMERKOLLEKTION

do not touch with a bargepole


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## chris l (Aug 5, 2005)

Sigh. I suppose it was time. I've been very lucky with the (spit) 'bay, and the volume and low level of negative feedback gave me confidence...

The case is good, the movement keeps time now that it's dusted out and regulated...

Another damn project, then...

I'll have to do it, it just feels WRONG on the wrist now.

Yep, that's them....I just hope that nobody shil bids loads of their auctions up before disappearing into the ether....


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## chris l (Aug 5, 2005)

Thanks for the advice, everyone; I'll ask in advance in future!

In the cold light of day it's not so bad, a project..... dials and hands... mmmm.... always fancied bead blasting one of these.... and so it begins...


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Neggy FB him though, he can't neggy you back nowadays, and this is a deffo case for MINUS ratings!


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## chris l (Aug 5, 2005)

mel said:


> Neggy FB him though, he can't neggy you back nowadays, and this is a deffo case for MINUS ratings!


Oh, yes, I'm trying to get as much vitriol as possible into the few words available...


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## Chukas (Aug 7, 2008)

Shocking to hear,do these pri**s not have a conscience.

Good to see he is named and shamed!!


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

I am missing something here....although do not know one Seiko from another, but isn't the watch you recieved the one on the auction listing? Looks the same to me......movements hard to see properly of course, but the case and dial looks right.....

Please somebody explain to me? Just in case I fancy one!


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## chris l (Aug 5, 2005)

Boxbrownie said:


> I am missing something here....although do not know one Seiko from another, but isn't the watch you recieved the one on the auction listing? Looks the same to me......movements hard to see properly of course, but the case and dial looks right.....
> 
> Please somebody explain to me? Just in case I fancy one!


The dial is not original, and has had markings that would give this away marked out in felt pen. (!)

The back is not original, and again the markings have been ground off.

And the hands....

None of this is apparent in the auction pictures.... which are very well done...

Neither is it mentioned in the item description.

Nor does the seller respond to either emails, messages or to PayPal .

Buy one; they're cracking watches, but get a new one from Roy!


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

chris l said:


> Boxbrownie said:
> 
> 
> > I am missing something here....although do not know one Seiko from another, but isn't the watch you recieved the one on the auction listing? Looks the same to me......movements hard to see properly of course, but the case and dial looks right.....
> ...


Aha OK.....I wouldn't know if the dial was 1980 or 2080 :huh: So I think I can see maybe a slight mark on the left of the movement number on the dial, is that the felt pen....er....modification?

I thought the back was just well worn.....I suppose its a pretty new watch to get that worn though....the hands....same as the dial to me.....although I don't think they look quite right with the rest of the watch.....or to me....I just don't like that style I guess.

Its a bummer and a sad reflection on so called WIS dealers when this kind of thing happens.....paypal are notoriously slow at reacting I know....best of luck with your complaint though.


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## PhilM (Nov 5, 2004)

That's a bit of a rough deal Chris, I know you say that you can live with it and make something out of it, but still ebay need to take action over the seller


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## Robin S (Nov 1, 2008)

If you do decide to go for a refund, if you file a dispute with Paypal I can't see then not judging in your favour - takes a few weeks though....

It is a shame eBay/Paypal (as eBay bought Paypal) aren't a bit more tough on rogue sellers; a number of times I have disputed and won and found the same user id still trading after multiple lost disputes and bad feedack.


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## oddgitt (Mar 19, 2008)

I've found ebay pretty unhelpful in most respects - why would they bring the hammer down on the fakers & scammers? They make the same money regardless of what they sell. Grrr...


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

mrteatime said:


> oh yeah....seller is *SPEEDTIMERKOLLEKTION*
> 
> do not touch with a bargepole


Speaking of which, I've been doing a little research on this shower. :umnik2:

Had I googled a bit more, a couple of years back, there were plenty of other warnings about them.

This is a thread from the old SCWF, which names names: http://www.network54.com/Forum/78440/thread/1258980427/Speedtimerkollektion



> I've just read different Posts about this Ebay PowerSeller....
> 
> People are wondering from where are the Watches from....
> 
> ...


Well here's another eBay seller to watch out for: *SECONDHANDWATCHES*

Why you might ask ? :huh: Well 'Secondhandwatches' is none other than Klaas Vink, selling direct from the Philippines. :thumbsdown:

I left the incompetent old watch-botcher a well-deserved negative feedback a couple of weeks ago. :disgust:

You would not believe the string of emails / eBay messages I've just finished wading through. 

In the end he was offering me a full refund, just so I'd remove this one negative feedback.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Well 'Secondhandwatches' is none other than Klaas Vink, selling direct from the Philippines. :thumbsdown:


Surprising what else you can learn with a little intuitive googling. :naughty:

It would appear that *WATCHONLINE09* (also based in the Philippines)

is yet another of Klaas Vink's eBay 'PowerSeller' accounts - with amazingly 100% positive feedback. 

I love this quote he puts at the bottom of his listings:



> *!!Attention!!* *I am not a professional watchmaker*


Yes, we know, Klaas. :rofl2: You're an amateur-ish watch-botcher. :hammer: :butcher:


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks for the heads up...will steer clear.


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Ah, I do have this seller on my saved sellers. Actually, I've pointed him out to some members that were after parts like bracelets, dials and bezel inserts...

...and I've bought an Alpha ST-19 from him... :sweatdrop:

EDIT: In fact I think I've pointed him out to you Roger, when you were after a pepsi bezel... sorry about that :bag:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Kutusov said:


> Actually, I've pointed him out to some members that were after parts like *bracelet*s, dials and bezel inserts...


I'm not saying that *everything* Klaas Vink sells is Franken rubbish.







Just that he's incompetent (and also illiterate). :duh:

The reason I left him a negative feedback was because the 'NOS' Seiko 20mm *breslett* (sic) I bought turned out to be 18mm ! :angry:


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## Watch-nut (Oct 31, 2009)

mel said:


> Neggy FB him though, he can't neggy you back nowadays, and this is a deffo case for MINUS ratings!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


+1, the more people that know about him the better, at least it will make an interesting poject but none the less 

What about just getting a refund through paypal and returning the watch?


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> This is a thread from the old SCWF, which names names: http://www.network54.com/Forum/78440/thread/1258980427/Speedtimerkollektion
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It would seem that the OP in that old SCWF thread got his facts slightly mixed up.









Though in no way are any apologies due to 'SpeedTimerKollektion' and its alleged owners. :thumbsdown:

If you check the contact details on eBay, for SpeedTimerKollection, you will find the following information:



> *Business seller information*
> 
> Speedtimerkollektion
> 
> ...


But it gets even more intriguing .... of more anon.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Well 'Secondhandwatches' is none other than Klaas Vink, selling direct from the Philippines. :thumbsdown:
> 
> I left the incompetent old watch-botcher a well-deserved negative feedback a couple of weeks ago. :disgust:
> 
> ...


The first of those emails offering a refund, in exchange for removal of the negative feedback:

Subject: *'Klaas bracelet'* was sent from [email protected] and signed '*Klaas*'.

This is an exact copy and paste of the latest reply in that email string (complete with spelling mistakes):



> You hurt the rong person because my name is *Marin Vink* and iÂ´am 40 years old *and the owner of Secondhandwatches and Watchonline09. *
> 
> *Peter Roeland* is the owner of Speedtimerkollektion and he buy before watches from *Klaas*. *Peter is not the son off Klaas.*
> 
> ...


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

But it gets even better. :naughty:

If you check the eBay feedback for 'Secondhandwatches', you'll come across the occasional comment like:



> Great value for the money, thanks *Klaas* / AAA+


There are no contact details given at the bottom of the page, because they are classed as a private seller.

However, if you check the eBay contact details for 'Watchonline09', who are registered as a buisness seller, you'll not find the name 'Marin Vink', but:



> *Business seller information*
> 
> watchonline09
> 
> ...


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Now, read that email of Marin Vink's which I quoted in post #23 again, very carefully :read:

.... and then click on this link: http://www.tradetag.com/53/53ca5d15e8e733d3-company.html



> *Basic Information*
> 
> Company Name:	Speedtimerkollektion
> 
> ...


Just so you know which dishonest S.O.B. you're actually dealing with .... *or not*. :fear:


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## Phillionaire (Jan 23, 2010)

Ugly, ugly business this. Makes me wonder how many of his 'happy' customers don't realize what they have bought from him.


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## chris l (Aug 5, 2005)

From their website....

"Clients satisfaction: almost 100%"


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

chris l said:


> From their website....
> 
> "Clients satisfaction: almost 100%"


My own recent experience shows that the Vinks will go to any lengths, including offering a full refund ....

.... in order to maintain their (presumably fudged) 100% feedback ratings on their various eBay accounts.

Makes me wonder what might have happened 2Â½ years ago, had I left them a negative feedback against the

7A38-7020 Franken I bought from SpeedTimerKollektion. :think: At the time, I simply just couldn't be bothered. :schmoll:



Phillionaire said:


> Ugly, ugly business this. Makes me wonder how many of his 'happy' customers don't realize what they have bought from him.


If only I'd realized at the time. :duh: 

So you know what to do, if you buy a duff un' from them. *Leave them a negative !* :thumbsdown:

Incidentally, there is a *90 day* (after purchase) window for leaving feedback on eBay. :wink2:


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