# WW2 Pocket Watch Radon levels



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

I was alerted to concerns about Radon levels from old lumed watches by a thread started by @Always"watching".

https://thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?/topic/149284-radium-lume-waking-up-to-radon/&tab=comments#comment-1566727

I bought a Radon detector from Amazon, which showed that the ambient level where I have most of my watches is well within recommended limits. However, I have an Elgin pocket watch which my father brought back from his service in WW2. It's been in a display cabinet where we keep family mementos, in a different room from my other watches. First I put the detector on top of the cabinet, where it was showing safe levels. Then I put it inside the cabinet, next to the watch. Result probably shouldn't be a surprise, but it was still a shock when I saw it.










I've now put the watch in a tightly sealed metal box outside the cabinet and recalibrated the detector inside, but it's still showing very high levels. Guess I'll have to ventilate the whole room to get the levels down.

Anyway, just a heads up for anyone else who has radium lumed watches.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

spinynorman said:


> I've now put the watch in a tightly sealed metal box


 Surely that will mean that you now have a box full of concentrated Radon that you risk inhaling whenever you dare to open it.

I'd have thought it better to place the watch openly on, say, a mantlepiece in a well-ventilated, upstairs room so the Radon never builds up to "dangerous" levels and is free to dissipate.


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

rhaythorne said:


> Surely that will mean that you now have a box full of concentrated Radon that you risk inhaling whenever you dare to open it.
> 
> I'd have thought it better to place the watch openly on, say, a mantlepiece in a well-ventilated, upstairs room so the Radon never builds up to "dangerous" levels and is free to dissipate.


 Yes, actually I think you're right. I'll have to find a better place for it.


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Dear @spinynorman... Ah, you have in fact just replied to @rhaythorne as I was writing this post to say that I think rhaythorne has a point there.

I myself have relegated radium lumed watches (and other watches whose lume I am suspicious about) to our detached and well-ventilated (even when the door is shut) garage, and there they will stay for the duration. I did have them in a thick-walled antimony jewellery box with a lid of similar thickness and metal, but I may rethink that in the light of rhaythorne's advice; at least, I will be careful when opening the box and inspecting the contents not to inhale any radon that may be present.


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

spinynorman said:


> I'll have to find a better place for it.


 I agree! :yes:

May I recommend Karrusel Towers as a suitable depositary.

:biggrin:


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Be careful what you wish for, many people confuse depositary with suppository :scared:


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## eezy (Apr 13, 2018)

Give it a good scrub with Daz, it'll be fine. 

Seriously though, my Dad wore his service issue WWW Cyma every day for 45 years until it stopped working. He died of old age when he was 88.


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

eezy said:


> Give it a good scrub with Daz, it'll be fine.
> 
> Seriously though, my Dad wore his service issue WWW Cyma every day for 45 years until it stopped working. He died of old age when he was 88.


 Possibly wearing it is the better option as the gas has more chance to disperse.



Karrusel said:


> I agree! :yes:
> 
> May I recommend Karrusel Towers as a suitable depositary.
> 
> :biggrin:


 Kind offer, but most of our house is 17th C, some of it older. So creating a draught is the least of our problems. :biggrin:


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## eezy (Apr 13, 2018)

Actually mine are kept in a wall safe set in a disused chimney breast but since radon is heavier than air I don't suppose that helps.


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Update for anyone that's still interested. The watch has been kept well away from the cabinet for 2 weeks. I left the doors open for 2-3 days and put an electric fan in front of them in the hope it would blow anything nasty out. A couple of days ago I put the radon detector back in the cupboard with the doors shut and the radon level is still high, with a 1 day average of over 700. So either there's another source in there, (no idea what that would be) or this stuff is very persistent.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Or the detector is detecting something other than Radon which itself has a half-life of under 4 days. Polonium might be the chief suspect.


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## Paul-H (May 28, 2021)

It's coming through the walls, from the Russian Spy living next door :thumbsup:


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

rhaythorne said:


> Or the detector is detecting something other than Radon which itself has a half-life of under 4 days. Polonium might be the chief suspect.


 I can't tell who's being serious and who's joking now.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

I think that Radon doesn't hang around for long (consistently high levels occurring only when it's being replenished from somewhere) so you shouldn't be detecting high levels by now.

Your device works by detecting Alpha particles. Perhaps, if it's not perfectly calibrated, it might possibly be detecting Polonium-210 (one of the elements into which Radon decays on its way to becoming Lead) which has a radio active half life of several months.

Maybe you have a thin coating of Polonium-210 on your shelf?

To test the theory you could remove the shelf and place it in another room that has a known low level of Radon and see if your detector still produces a high reading when you place it on the shelf there.

Pure speculation on my part I confess.


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Dear @spinynorman, I hope this piece is helpful to you; it follows on from what rhaythorne was saying above:

Radon is radioactive, which means it gives off radiation. It is part of what's called a "decay chain" that starts with solid radioactive materials like uranium (most common). Uranium eventually turns into lead, but on its way from uranium to lead it goes through many intermediate steps, one of which is radon gas. As elements decay they emit alpha particles, which is what a radon detector looks for. But alpha particles are pretty weak; they can't go through thin solids like paper or leather.

At this point you may think to yourself, "So I can just wear more clothes and protect myself from radon?" Unfortunately, no. Radon's alpha particles can't penetrate leather, but they do penetrate the thin tissue on the inside of your lungs, at which point they mess with your cellular DNA. All it takes is breathing in these particles to put yourself at greater risk of damaging your lung tissue. Of course, breathing in a few of these particles is fine and actually normal. But breathing in a lot of these particles can damage your lung tissue and lead to lung cancer.

Radon decay is the main source of airborne alpha particles, but it also creates other radioactive materials you might come into contact with. Just as uranium decays and turns into other elements, so too does radon turn into other elements. Specifically, radon turns into polonium-218 and eventually polonium-214. These are tiny solids that bind to dust and smoke particles. And because they are solid they can stay in the lungs for much longer than radon tends to stay in the lungs.

Thus, detecting radon is important to protect your lung tissue from alpha particles in the short term and from radioactive solids in the long term. Both of these can lead to cancer, and because of the fact that radon gas levels ebb and flow over the course of a year it makes sense to get a radon detector to make sure the air you're breathing is safe. (From "How we make the Corentium Home radon detector" from airthings.com/resources/radon-detector)

Dear @spinynorman, sorry to bother you again but I have just spotted a useful guide to the breakdown of radon, and other aspects of radon, entitled "How Radon Works" online at howstuffworks.com. The opening page for this article is at home.howstuffworks.com/home-improvement/household-safety/radon.htm


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Last update from me, over two months since the watch was removed from the cabinet, the radon levels in there have fallen to around 40-50, which is safe.


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

I'm relieved to hear you say that, dear @spinynorman. Thanks for the update.


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