# Dirty Dozen dilemma



## Hotbulb (Jan 1, 2020)

I have been collecting the dirty dozen watches for a few years with the hope of maybe having the full set but fear I'm never going to attain this as prices just seem to be getting out of control , I have 9 plus the movements from 2 Granas with the view of eventually finding bits to make a full watch , the three I haven't got are naturally the most expensive, IWC , Longines and of course a Grana

when I first started collecting them the full set would cost around 30k with some carefull buying which I thought might be achievable with the Grana being bought for round 7-10k but one had come up for sale recently for 25k which to my mind is madness ,
A complete set came up for sale at the end of last year for 40k and will probably be broken down and sold separately , the problem is that some people are buying watches of all types just for investment and not as collectors which Is pushing the prices up ridiculously and I think falsely high and know of one investor that has full 3 sets plus spares !!!! , look at the prices of Rolex's for instance but we won't go there .

I enjoy the history of them and of course wearing them but have lost a bit of enthusiasm , chase and not to mention money required to get to the end

So my dilemma is do I just sell them all and forget about ever achieving the goal of having all 12 or just play the waiting game with the hope of getting lucky one day ?


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## Littlelegs (Dec 4, 2011)

That's a lovely collection of watches. I'd enjoy them as is and if the others come along at the right money, all well and good. If not you still have a great set of watches and if you ever need the cash you could release what you needed to. :thumbs_up:


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## Jet Jetski (Feb 10, 2019)

I would sell them now, before the bubble bursts - soon everybody brought up on Commando War Story will be past caring about watches, IMHO. Then when the bubble does burst, you can buy them back cheaper.

Nice watches though.


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## eezy (Apr 13, 2018)

Depends if you look at them as an investment or if you simply enjoy having them.

I don't look at my watches as an investment. That market is fraught with danger and if you want to cash them in it is a matter of predicting when they will be at the top of the market before (and if) they fall in value. Also are the asking prices being achieved?

It is not a dilemna I have with my two because they are family heirlooms. One is my Dad's service issue and the other he bought in the 60's as a backup. So they cannot be sold with any good conscience.

One thing is for sure - if you sell they will leave a void and you are unlikely to be able to replace them without a blank cheque.


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

Hotbulb said:


> do I just sell them all...or just play the waiting game...


 Selling is an alien concept for me, even to give it a passing thought.
Have spent many (enjoyable) years looking, waiting, for a favoured bit of old tat to reveal itself, it's the desire, hunting, waiting, that keeps the passion alive, for me.

Still a couple on my wish list, if they turn up they turn up, if they don't....nothing lost!

Whatever you decide...it's your call.

:thumbsup:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Hotbulb said:


> or just play the waiting game with the hope of getting lucky one day ?


 You never know. I got a pretty beat up Grana at the Barras in Glasgow for £175 around 20 years ago, and was really pi$$ed of at paying that for it as the rest, which had been bought in the early 1970's cost less than a tenner each.


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

They are all fascinating and interesting watches in their own right, if you still enjoy them why not keep them? They'll always be there to realize cash if you need it, at a better rate of growth than the banks too, that's for sure! What would you spend the money on is another thing to ask yourself, few things would appreciate as they have done .... unless you need a kidney of course.... :huh:


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

I had five or six of them back when the common ones cost £150-£250 each. I was already having my doubts about the prices when the equally common Omega cost about £400 even though it's no better than the others. As the prices escalated far beyond what I think the watches are worth (to me) I sold all but my favourite (Timor) and moved on to something else.


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## Hotbulb (Jan 1, 2020)

Jet Jetski said:


> I would sell them now, before the bubble bursts - soon everybody brought up on Commando War Story will be past caring about watches, IMHO. Then when the bubble does burst, you can buy them back cheaper.
> 
> Nice watches though.


 Hopefully I've bought most of them at the "right price " and yes your right the bubble could burst at any time but can't see them dropping that much imho , I have made rash decisions in the past and sold things I wish I hadn't especially when I hit treble numbers on watches , but looking on here and the amount others have I feel quite at home ha ha

The only way I would possibly part with them is to put the money towards another watch which would in turn better my collection , I have always hankered after a birth year 66 Rolex sea dweller or a Ed White speed master but as prices on those had gone stratospheric I wouldn't like to take that chance right now as I believe that bubble might well and truly burst .

So Perhaps in reality they will stay for a while longer yet , the market for Military watches seems not to be quite so volatile and a more comfortable place to be in right now


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Interesting dilemma, dear @Hotbulb, but is it really a dilemma? As collectors, we do sometimes set ourselves goals that, to the rational non-collector, seem ridiculous and obsessive. I know I have been guilty of this myself, in the past, but nowadays, with my state pension coming up shortly, I do not have any collecting aims that "need" to be fulfilled. Instead, I enjoy what I already have, and just collect the odd item in a far more relaxed fashion. A number of Forum members have already given similar advice to that which I myself would give, and I would only add that collecting should be an enjoyable process without self-imposed anxiety about completing some sort of "target." For me, a positive and enjoyable part of the collecting bug is the learning process that goes with it, and no doubt, you have learned a great deal about the "Dirty Dozen" watches and military watches in general.


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Find another species of watch to collect. That'll take your mind off the incomplete "dozen". :tongue:


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## sparrow (Feb 7, 2009)

Absolutely beautiful collection as is - unless you want to release the cash and go after something else, I vote keep them - you've got some beautiful examples in there, who cares about the other 3!


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## Lug (Jun 24, 2018)

Your 3/4's there with your collection. You'll never know when something will turn up

I'd say keep them, keep looking and keep it going!

Also keep them in a lead box!


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## Richard734 (Jul 17, 2019)

hold and wait, Plague house clearouts will bring some interesting stuff to Car boots, Charity and junk shops once the world starts turning again.


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## Kamakazie! (Mar 13, 2013)

Richard734 said:


> hold and wait, Plague house clearouts will bring some interesting stuff to Car boots, Charity and junk shops once the world starts turning again.


 Imagine finding a Grana at a car boot.... aren't those days over with easy web searches?!


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## KAS118 (Mar 2, 2014)

Enjoy the ones you have - it's always good to have a goal to aim for; if you sold them now you'd regret it - and would no-doubt have to find something else to collect.

The hunt is part of the enjoyment - it it were easy it would be no fun.


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## antjrice (Mar 13, 2020)

It doesn't sound like you're doing this in order to flip them at a later point so I'd play the long game to achieve your goal.

What goes up will always come down (apart from my lockdown weight apparently....)


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## Richard734 (Jul 17, 2019)

Kamakazie! said:


> aren't those days over with easy web searches?!


 There are still people who will clear out Grandpa's old junk - if it doesn't say Rolex or look Gold, it will go in the charity shop bag. My daughters boyfriend got a nice Tissot from a charity shop in the Peak District a couple of years ago. Paid £10 for it


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## Kamakazie! (Mar 13, 2013)

Richard734 said:


> There are still people who will clear out Grandpa's old junk - if it doesn't say Rolex or look Gold, it will go in the charity shop bag. My daughters boyfriend got a nice Tissot from a charity shop in the Peak District a couple of years ago. Paid £10 for it


 I guess you are right, there are still plenty of stories of bargain finds, just less frequent.

Probably depends where you are in the country as well.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

30 Odd Years ago I bought an IWC Mark II for £50, it had been run over by a car. It still ran and there was no damage at all to it.
The customer brought it in the shop and was over the moon that his dads old military watch was worth so much.
I was young and had no idea of it's real value but it looked ok so took a chance on £50.
I sold it the next day for a Grand. I felt bad so found the seller and gave him half. Too soft but that's me.

Now the internet is here these finds are scarce.


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

Roy said:


> Too soft but that's me.


 Not at all , just doing the right thing!

Similar thing happened to me, purchased a1920's timepiece from a dealer some years ago which was described as 'Solid Silver' (marks were very faint). Agreed a price with which we were both happy with.

Several months later, having left it out in my office, I noticed it hadn't tarnished like silver objects usually do. When observing the punch marks under higher magnification the true metal identity was revealed....Swiss 18k white gold!

The next time I bumped into the dealer I felt compelled to inform him of this discovery, & offered him what I felt was a fair monetary adjustment. He said "Well done you" & refused to take anything, also adding he had purchased it as being described as an silver cased watch.

We meet occasionally & he offers me very good deals which I often take advantage of.

Maintaining your integrity is far more important too me thank making a quick buck!

:thumbsup:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Karrusel said:


> Maintaining your integrity is far more important too me thank making a quick buck!


 Certainly. I remember someone doing similar when I sold off some stuff on here for a charity fundraiser. :thumbsup:


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## Rtfox2 (Nov 3, 2020)

Hi. I have an all original Vertex (dirty dozen) WWW watch. It runs well and winds very smoothly and according to my watch smith does not need servicing or cleaning. It has an old pigskin strap designed for fixed lug watches which has a newer buckle. I suspect it may be the strap from army use. I no longer collect watches as much now and have transferred my interest to acoustic guitars. I am seeking an acoustic guitarist who is losing interest in guitar playing/ collecting to arrange a swap. Something along the lines of a used Gibson J45, Fylde, Eastman or Furch guitar would be the level I am hoping for.

Nimrod7


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Rtfox2 said:


> Hi. I have an all original Vertex (dirty dozen) WWW watch. It runs well and winds very smoothly and according to my watch smith does not need servicing or cleaning. It has an old pigskin strap designed for fixed lug watches which has a newer buckle. I suspect it may be the strap from army use. I no longer collect watches as much now and have transferred my interest to acoustic guitars. I am seeking an acoustic guitarist who is losing interest in guitar playing/ collecting to arrange a swap. Something along the lines of a used Gibson J45, Fylde, Eastman or Furch guitar would be the level I am hoping for.
> 
> Nimrod7


 Wouldn't it be easier and quicker to sell the watch and then buy a guitar with the proceeds? Could it be that the watch is nowhere near the value of a Gibson J45?


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## Sander0412 (2 mo ago)

hello, last week looking through my grandfather's boxes and found this IWC dirty dozen Nato dial w10 445-5890.
*



































*


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## eezy (Apr 13, 2018)

Sander0412 said:


> hello, last week looking through my grandfather's boxes and found this IWC dirty dozen Nato dial w10 445-5890.
> *
> View attachment 80616
> View attachment 80617
> ...


First reactions are that this is a ''bitsa''. However just because it doesn't look like your normal 'WWW' does not mean it's wrong. 

All WWW had fixed strap pins but they could have been drilled out to facilitate a strap change, bit brutal but it happens. 'WWW' watches were supposedly issued in 1945 and this dial is off a much later watch with Tritium lume. Tritium was not used until nearly 20 years later. However.....there have been stories of WWW watches being used during the Falklands war in the early 80's. It is well known the military watch people had no worries about using any bits to hand that would fit to make a serviceable unit and since the original dial would have had dangerous Radium lume it could have been changed for that reason alone.

I can't read it from the image, but if the calibre is correct it should have C83 stamped between the bridges. Is the stem pulled out on the image as it looks a long way from the case? Interesting watch in all.


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