# Luminosity, Luminosity, Luminosity



## Darkstream (Aug 28, 2005)

I have read about people on the forum getting their dials relumed. I had always thought the days of self-illuminating numbers had gone.

My cheapo watches will glow for up to 15 minutes after a charge of light before becoming completely dead (fluorescent paint?). I used to think that this was the best that could be hoped for.

However, the lume on my Tissot is a completely different matter. Even a brief exposure to sunlight will charge it up so much that you can se it glowing in the DAYLIGHT! And it will continue to remain readable (with night vision) for at least 18 hours in complete darkness.

So there is obviously some considerable difference in the substances used for luming these days.

Does anybody know what it is? Or why/how it works that one is so much better than another?

My very first watch was so luminous that it lit up my bedroom at night, and even cast shadows of objects on the bedside table. And it did not need ANY charging first ;-) .

Of course, finally there is radium. I would prefer this paint, since it really works. And surprisingly it seems that it is still available. Did you know that?

See:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/lau/lacs/42-6.htm

How about members testing the duration of their lume and reporting?

So far I have discovered:

Lumibright

Super Luminova

Tritium


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## bry1975 (Feb 6, 2004)

Hi there,

Radium has a half life of 1600 years









BUT it's highly toxic so not a good idea using it these days. The good lume these days is SL, which is Strontium Aluminate, the industrial chemist I know, recommends Zinc Sulphide as the initial glow, as it glows within less than a second of the light source being removed, the lasting glow is from Strontium Aluminate. Interestingly Zinc Sulphide can be mixed with water, if you mix water with SL or Strontium Aluminate it destroys it's glowing power.

The glowing power is basically, light particles that have kinda got lost in the luminous paint, well they can't escape like they usually would.

Also particle size affects the glowing power.

Hope this helps Bry


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2005)

Darkstream said:


> I have read about people on the forum getting their dials relumed. I had always thought the days of self-illuminating numbers had gone.
> 
> My cheapo watches will glow for up to 15 minutes after a charge of light before becoming completely dead (fluorescent paint?). I used to think that this was the best that could be hoped for.
> 
> ...


The Tritium phials on my H3 and Luminox watches glow very bright all the time without any need to charge - I'm told they will continue to do so for at least 10 years...


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## bry1975 (Feb 6, 2004)

They sure will Nobby, Tritium has a half life of over 12 years, most military equipment uses tritium lume, except navy subs I guess.

Bry



nobby said:


> Darkstream said:
> 
> 
> > I have read about people on the forum getting their dials relumed. I had always thought the days of self-illuminating numbers had gone.
> ...


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## marius (Mar 11, 2005)

bry1975 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Radium has a half life of 1600 years
> 
> ...


Interesting stuff. These alchemists are dangerous people. No wonder they were regarded as wizzards and witches in the old days.

I read somewhere that the radiation levels of even Radium has still not been shown to be harmful to people wearing the watches. There seems to have been a concern for the workers in the dial manufacturing places, and for watchmakers and repair guys, who got a much heavier exposure. In high school we used to get the Geiger counter from the science lab and have competitions about whose whatch had the "best phosphorous".

Nowadays, girls dont believe you anymore when you say "You will not get pregnant as long as I keep my radioactive watch on."


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## adrian (May 23, 2004)

marius said:


> Nowadays, girls dont believe you anymore when you say "You will not get pregnant as long as I keep my radioactive watch on."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I take my watch off and put a condom on. I don't think the tritium from my Orfina will kill the AIDS germs.









To the original post: there is luminous paint and there is luminous paint. Many substances have been tried. With the evolution of Physics and Chemistry some relized that the paint used in watches is radioactive and can damage your health.

No matter what, the radioactive paint on a dial is not at a high level do trigger cancer instantly, but if you wear same watch during years, you may have a problem. Since most of old luminous watches were military, the Army used to stock large quantities of watches and paint for the dials and hands in silos. Well, they were radioactive. Someone got pissed off and started to do some research. After a while a company called Angular Momentum used a compound called SuperLumiNova to paint their watch dials. SL is extracted from algae and believed not to be radioactive as it is 100% natural. The only downgrade is that it doesn't glow continously as the old school did. You have to recharge the watch every 18 hours in the sunlight for a couple of mins. After all, you don't live in the middle of the Polar Winter, you must have 1-2 hours of light per day. So there was: It glows strong for 3-4 hours and then low and lower until the end of the day. But not everyone was happy. Some said why have a bright glowing for 1 hour and then fade to dust? No matter the actual glow I want o continous one for 8-10 years. There are 2 solutions to this problem: apply the luminous radioactive compund as paint on the dial/hands/markers or put the tritium on a small tube, isolate it from the world and less photons will go away, and less luminosity will lose and more lifetime will get.

There you are: you can find watches with SL (most of the companies use it), tritium gas tubes (it is patented to MB Microtech and sold only to Luminox and Ball) or old tritium paint technique who less and less companies use but most of watch collectors enjoy, in the spirit of "true" aviation/military watches. Since 1999 tritium watches are banned to be exported outside UE but I'm the proud owner of this beautie:


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## Darkstream (Aug 28, 2005)

Adrian:

Precisely my point.

Of course large quantities of radium paint stored without any protection represent a risk to the storekeepers.

And the ingestion of radium by the â€œRadium Girlsâ€ who painted the dials and wetted the brushes with their lips is clearly a dangerously high level of exposure, particularly since the body does not evacuate the radium and it just builds up. (well, at least we know that now).

But I do not recall any evidence to suggest that bomber, fighter and tank crews surviving the second world war suffered from a statistically heightened level of cancers due to exposure from their radium illuminated instruments.

I was brought up in a period some 10 years after Hiroshima, when every time you bought a pair of Clarkâ€™s shoes, you received 20 to 30 times what is considered a safe dose of x rays these days, just to check if the shoes fit properly. And how many others? It is the sales staff I feel sorry for. What were their exposure levels?

In comparison, wearing a radium dial watch is negligible in terms of radiation, and no proof exists to suggest that any lasting harm comes from it.

So, give me something that works, rather than something that does not.


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## adrian (May 23, 2004)

It is a small emision concentrated on a small area (your wrist). You may get arthritis or else. You can stare at a tank instrument pannel radium illuminated, you can drink Cocaine-Cola, you can buy a house with highway view and enjoy the breeze everyday or you can talk to your mobile phone 8hours/day. Even if you are doing it long enough the results can be inconclusive, the question is: are you willing to risk it?


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## Bareges (Aug 18, 2005)

By the way Nobby if you thinking of doing anything you shouldn't while wearing your tritium phialed Traser or whatever wear it on a bund that way the glow can't be seen!!

I gather there was a very large sale of bunds to the special forces as well as ordinary troops prior to both Iraqi excursions as the tritium glow can be seen by a sniper's night scope from two clicks (2KM to you and me on civvie street) on a nice clear desert night.........not a very comforting thought.


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2005)

Bareges said:


> By the way Nobby if you thinking of doing anything you shouldn't while wearing your tritium phialed Traser or whatever wear it on a bund that way the glow can't be seen!!
> 
> I gather there was a very large sale of bunds to the special forces as well as ordinary troops prior to both Iraqi excursions as the tritium glow can be seen by a sniper's night scope from two clicks (2KM to you and me on civvie street) on a nice clear desert night.........not a very comforting thought.
> 
> ...


Good tip


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## Darkstream (Aug 28, 2005)

How far could the sniper see if you had one of those cute little watches with a light in them to help you read the dial?

On a clear night 5 clicks over open ground or at sea.

Never be three on a match!


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## andy100 (Dec 18, 2005)

Sorry to ressurect an old thread, but I'd be really interested to know what Tissot use on their watches to make them glow.

I've got an old Tissot about 6 year's old (before the marketing machine kicked in and they went all , to my finances, 'high-class') which still glows brightly as soon as it's plunged into darkness, and is still bright enough to see in the morning after 8-odd hours in pitch black night.

I've just 'down-graded' to a Storm watch as the glass and bezel of my Tissot are pretty battered up. The Storm looks lovely and new, but it doesn't even glow for 5 mins after a full day's charge. Only time I've got it to glow for a few seconds brightly was by holding a torch up to it for a couple of minutes of holding it under a UV black-light. Seeing as it's one of the key factors of my having a watch (I wear it all the time and automatically check the time when I wake up in the mornings) I'm very dissapointed.

If Radium is used, I'd like to know as I've given the Tissot to my 9-year old daughter who loves it (I like the idea of her first 'proper' watch) and wears it all the time. It's model number I think is 763M (it has E663/763M on the case back, but only 7643M on the bit wear the bracelet joins the case back).

Coincidently, I can't find any reference of this watch on the internet so if anyone has any info they could give me I'd appreciate it. It's a great watch which I actually really miss, even though it's all beat-up. But of course I don't want to have to take it off my little girl!

Cheers, Andy


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Andy it won't be radium if it is only 6 years old, if it still glows after 8 hours it could be tritium.

If you have a look at your dial there might be a "T" by the Swiss Made such as

T Swiss Made T

This would indicate tritium.

Don't know anything about Storm watches.


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## andy100 (Dec 18, 2005)

JoT said:


> Andy it won't be radium if it is only 6 years old, if it still glows after 8 hours it could be tritium.
> 
> If you have a look at your dial there might be a "T" by the Swiss Made such as
> 
> ...


Cheers for the quick reply JoT. I don't think it's Tritium, as I've been looking at Traser watches recently and looking into the method of lighting. All the dial says (from memory) is Tissot 1853 and 100ft/330m WR (so the usual stuff really).

The watch was a present but only cost Â£80 at the time from one of the fashion mail order catalogues. I wish you could get Tissot's at that price these days - I'd stick by the brand after my experiences with this one if they weren't completely out of my price range! It's started to go on the blink slightly now, but I think that the cause is my daughter banging it around at school and such, and the battery going as well as it's about due time for a change (3-years or so if I remember correctly!)

Storm watches were big around 1996-7. They're basically fashion watches, but you can see them at http://www.stormwatches.com/home.htm. Mine's the 'Lucre' page 5 under men's watches). To be honest it's very unimpressive to my mind. only 50m water resistance, the hands and date are really small and hard to read and the battery life is quoted as only 2 years! The build quality seems ok to my mind I suppose.

If it wasn't for the fact I bought it for Â£25 off ebay I'd be very annoyed at it. Certainly not woth the Â£60 RRP! I suppose it'll be passed onto my girl if and when the Tissot finally goes to the great watch graveyard in the sky, and when I can afford to get something better!


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Andy there are two types of tritium lume ... the Traser glass tube type know as GTLS (gaseous tritium light source) and convnentional tritium luminous paint.

Tritium paint was very common on watches till recently and does not require charging from an external light source. Modern lume such as Luminova and Super Lumionova need charging from a light source to work, and do not, in my experience, last 8 hours.


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## andy100 (Dec 18, 2005)

JoT said:


> Andy there are two types of tritium lume ... the Traser glass tube type know as GTLS (gaseous tritium light source) and convnentional tritium luminous paint.
> 
> Tritium paint was very common on watches till recently and does not require charging from an external light source. Modern lume such as Luminova and Super Lumionova need charging from a light source to work, and do not, in my experience, last 8 hours.
> 
> ...


I did read about that type of Tritium, but thought it didn't last very long as an form of illuminating watches as it was unsafe...is that true? I guess from reading the previous comments in this thread less so than radium!







. I suppose though if I took into account inflation, then the current cost for a Traser basic model is about the same as my Tissot. Only problem with the Traser's is they cost so much if you want them with a metal bracelet!

I'd still like to find out more if anyone has any info...I tried emailing Tissot to enquire about the watch and getting it checked over and the glass and bezel replaced, but all I got was the standard "we can't advise anything until they've got the watch in front of them" which I'd rather not do as I think they'll find the repairs cost more than the watch originally!

Guess I'll just have to buy a cheap (and bright) digital alarm clock to tell the time by at night! And if the watch does have Tritium paint on it and is dangerous, get it off my daughter's wrist fast!


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

andy100 said:


> JoT said:
> 
> 
> > Andy there are two types of tritium lume ... the Traser glass tube type know as GTLS (gaseous tritium light source) and convnentional tritium luminous paint.
> ...


I wouldnt worry about tritium paint, it'sjust the "anti-any sort of radiactivity" brigade that got it banned.

If you like Tissot have you seen the Tissot Seastar 600 Quartz? Loads of lume and not that expensive - Â£175 on a braclet.


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## andy100 (Dec 18, 2005)

If I think the Seastar 600's the one that I'm thinking, then it is a fine watch. Unfortunately I'll have to wait a while to afford one or any watch! Have you got any specific links to places in the UK that sell them? I tried googling it but didn't have much luck tracking down that model. I was considering a Seiko Kinetic SKA293 or a Black Monster (see my other thread over in the Japanese watch forum) but I might have to add this one to my possibilities list!

Thanks for your info JoT!


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

andy100 said:


> If I think the Seastar 600's the one that I'm thinking, then it is a fine watch. Unfortunately I'll have to wait a while to afford one or any watch! Have you got any specific links to places in the UK that sell them? I tried googling it but didn't have much luck tracking down that model. I was considering a Seiko Kinetic SKA293 or a Black Monster (see my other thread over in the Japanese watch forum) but I might have to add this one to my possibilities list!
> 
> Thanks for your info JoT!
> 
> ...


The Black Monster just about sets the standard for modern lume .... you should be able to pick up a second hand one for Â£60 or Â£70


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## andy100 (Dec 18, 2005)

JoT said:


> andy100 said:
> 
> 
> > If I think the Seastar 600's the one that I'm thinking, then it is a fine watch. Unfortunately I'll have to wait a while to afford one or any watch! Have you got any specific links to places in the UK that sell them? I tried googling it but didn't have much luck tracking down that model. I was considering a Seiko Kinetic SKA293 or a Black Monster (see my other thread over in the Japanese watch forum) but I might have to add this one to my possibilities list!
> ...


The Black Monster really is starting to look like the most attractive option (especially with having seen multiple sources of the Lume being the best) though I've still no luck finding on at that price you quote...it seems that people don't want to part with theirs!







Will have to keep my eyes peeled on ebay!


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Put a post in the wanted section near the bottom of the forum, you never know, one might turn up,


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## andy100 (Dec 18, 2005)

Thanks JoT, I might well try that!


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## bry1975 (Feb 6, 2004)

If you want MEGA bright lume, Strontium aluminate is very good, The particle size is important along with the colour. Yeloow and green produce the brightest afterglow by far, white is poor and orange and red not so good.

The white lume is pretty poor in brightness compared to yellow or green strontium aluminate.

The Black monster has mega lume, check Roy's Seikos.

Cheers

Bry



andy100 said:


> Thanks JoT, I might well try that!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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