# Marina Militare



## skyMAX08

whilst browsing on several web sites i have come across these watches are they fakes,repros or homages to somthing else and they are always in Hong Kong.Anybody know anything about them? :huh:


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## thunderbolt

They are "homage" watches, manufactured in Asia, with local movements. Come in various designs and are usually 44 or 47mm cases. Great watches for the money. Here's mine.


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## mach 0.0013137

Some will call them homages & some will call them fakes, basically they are similar/near identical in design to Panerai watches....

Panerai Destro










Homage of above (probably made in China)










I`ve seen both & if you prefer to have the the original & can afford one great, however if you aren`t bothered & or can`t, then the alternatives can be very nice. Personally I wouldn`t touch what I consider a `fake` ie something that has the original manufacturers name on the dial but have no problem when it isn`t there. Others would disagree vehemently, hopefully (but I doubt it) this won`t degenerate into yet another "they`re fakes!!" "oh no they`re not!!" bun fight


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## skyMAX08

Thanks for the reply and the pics and after a quick look i certainly carnt afford the real thing but still might consider a homage piece :lol:


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## BondandBigM

:icon25:


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## thunderbolt

BondandBigM said:


> :icon25:


Cat got your tongue? :lol:


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## mach 0.0013137

mach 0.0013137 said:


> hopefully (but I doubt it) this won`t degenerate into yet another "they`re fakes!!" "oh no they`re not!!" bun fight


:wink2:


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## michaelh

They are very good quality watches for the money. Here is ym 44mm titanium one with swan neck regulator on a custom Toshi.


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## BondandBigM

thunderbolt said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> :icon25:
> 
> 
> 
> Cat got your tongue? :lol:
Click to expand...

Having spent some time on this forum I have became a bit more tolerant

:lol: :lol:


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## thunderbolt

BondandBigM said:


> thunderbolt said:
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> BondandBigM said:
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> 
> 
> :icon25:
> 
> 
> 
> Cat got your tongue? :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Having spent some time on this forum I have became a bit more tolerant
> 
> :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

Very tactfully put. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## BondandBigM

thunderbolt said:


> BondandBigM said:
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> thunderbolt said:
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> BondandBigM said:
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> :icon25:
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> Cat got your tongue? :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Having spent some time on this forum I have became a bit more tolerant
> 
> :lol: :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very tactfully put. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...


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## BondandBigM

[email protected]

Pressed enter twice !!


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## JonW

All homages have ever done is cost me money for the real thing, but I have to say these MMs are a lot of watch for the cash. The Asian unitas is very good and these watches are not badly made. A cut above the cheapo fakes and the Apogaums from a few years back etc.

Whist I wouldnt own an Alpha, I would and have owned one of these... :huh: :tongue2:


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## Flashharry

They are just a bit of fun, here is mine on a Toshi


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## JonW

My Destro Fiddy... unworn... hmm....


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## JonW

Hope you enjoy it Chris, these are a vast amount of watch for minimal cash


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## hikingcamping

Where can I find this MM from, Hong Kong? We have a office in HK, may be I will get one for myself too!


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## bunchie32

hikingcamping said:


> Where can I find this MM from, Hong Kong? We have a office in HK, may be I will get one for myself too!


do a worldwide search on ebay, you'll soon find an HK seller. i forget their username, but it's probably best not to post it anyway!


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## divemaster

In my opinion they are fakes watches, we have a big discusion in an german watch forum about this watches, but the owners of this watch didn`t want to hear that.

here is an link from panerei that shows also watches without the panerei on the dial are fakes, too!!

http://www.panerai.com/s_arch_storia.xpd?i...;mode=show_item

regads dive


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## bunchie32

divemaster said:


> In my opinion they are fakes watches, we have a big discusion in an german watch forum about this watches, but the owners of this watch didn`t want to hear that.
> 
> here is an link from panerei that shows also watches without the panerei on the dial are fakes, too!!
> 
> http://www.panerai.com/s_arch_storia.xpd?i...;mode=show_item
> 
> regads dive


with regards to MMs, opinion is divided on the fake/homage debate. panerai are of course entitled to be miffed that lookalikes are available for a lot less money and naturally of lower quality, but on here i think we've debated the arse out of this, and there's no need to fire it up again.

suffice to say panerai are very fine watches and those of us with tiny pockets and a desire for the look can get part way there at a decent price and reasonable quality with an MM. i also don't think there are many if any on the forum who would condone the purchase of a deliberate fake, that is to say one branded panerai.

again, just my opinion and i of course respect yours.


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## RHB

michaelh said:


> They are very good quality watches for the money. Here is ym 44mm titanium one with swan neck regulator on a custom Toshi.


That is a nice bit of kit :thumbsup:


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## michaelh

RHB said:


> That is a nice bit of kit :thumbsup:


Thanks RHB.


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## Barryboy

I've thought about getting one - Unfortunately I have big paws and anything less than a 38mm watch looks tiny on me and one of these might make a decent watch to wear on the rare occasions when I wear a long sleeved shirt.

I see nothing wrong in a watch being styled after another as long as it doesn't carry a name it's not entitled to - after all, I've got an RLT69 which is very similar to some of the elder British Military watches (Smiths, I think??) and I've also owned an O&W M5 which was styled very similarly to a Rolex Submariner. I've even got an Alpha Explorer which not only looks very like the Rolex it's even got the same model name. That's as far as I am personally prepared to go down the homage/copy path, but each to our own - I am in complete sympathy with anyone who wants to wear any watch that does not bear the name of another manufacturer.

Rob


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## mach 0.0013137

Barryboy said:


> I see nothing wrong in a watch being styled after another as long as it doesn't carry a name it's not entitled to - after all, I've got an RLT69 which is very similar to some of the elder British Military watches (Smiths, I think??) and I've also owned an O&W M5 which was styled very similarly to a Rolex Submariner. I've even got an Alpha Explorer which not only looks very like the Rolex it's even got the same model name. That's as far as I am personally prepared to go down the homage/copy path, but each to our own - I am in complete sympathy with anyone who wants to wear any watch that does not bear the name of another manufacturer.
> 
> Rob


My thoughts exactly :thumbsup:


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## normdiaz

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Some will call them homages & some will call them fakes, basically they are similar/near identical in design to Panerai watches....
> 
> Panerai Destro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Homage of above (probably made in China)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I`ve seen both & if you prefer to have the the original & can afford one great, however if you aren`t bothered & or can`t, then the alternatives can be very nice. Personally I wouldn`t touch what I consider a `fake` ie something that has the original manufacturers name on the dial but have no problem when it isn`t there. Others would disagree vehemently, hopefully (but I doubt it) this won`t degenerate into yet another "they`re fakes!!" "oh no they`re not!!" bun fight


These 2 appear to be for "lefties" (crowns @09:00/21:00).


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## michaelh

Totally agree with Barry and Mac.



normdiaz said:


> These 2 appear to be for "lefties" (crowns @09:00/21:00).


You can also get them with the crown on the right.


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## lewjamben

normdiaz said:


> These 2 appear to be for "lefties" (crowns @09:00/21:00).


On "destro" watches, the crown is always on the left, which I don't understand as "destro" is Italian for "right"! :huh:

Edit: Just clicked: for the right wrist! :wallbash:


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## mach 0.0013137

lewjamben said:


> normdiaz said:
> 
> 
> 
> These 2 appear to be for "lefties" (crowns @09:00/21:00).
> 
> 
> 
> On "destro" watches, the crown is always on the left, which I don't understand as "destro" is Italian for "right"! :huh:
> 
> Edit: Just clicked: for the right wrist! :wallbash:
Click to expand...

If I had one I`d wear it on the left


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## Russ




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## break-3

I bought a California-dial the other week. Great watch for the money, although the straps are terrible - factor in extra cash for some fresh leather.


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## bunchie32

break-3 said:


> I bought a California-dial the other week. Great watch for the money, although the straps are terrible - factor in extra cash for some fresh leather.


definitely. the straps are shocking.

they deserve toshis!


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## spring2fan

What is a 'California Dial' please?

Best Wishes

David


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## mach 0.0013137

spring2fan said:


> What is a 'California Dial' please?
> 
> Best Wishes
> 
> David


One were the upper numerals are Roman & the lower Arabic, I have no idea why & have never seen the point myself


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## Barreti

mach 0.0013137 said:


> lewjamben said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> normdiaz said:
> 
> 
> 
> These 2 appear to be for "lefties" (crowns @09:00/21:00).
> 
> 
> 
> On "destro" watches, the crown is always on the left, which I don't understand as "destro" is Italian for "right"! :huh:
> 
> Edit: Just clicked: for the right wrist! :wallbash:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I had one I`d wear it on the left
Click to expand...

I have an RLT watch that I love to wear because its special and is a fab looking watch but its damned uncomfortable because the crown digs in to the back of my hand. I have a MM Ti Destro and wear it on my left wrist and its soooooo comfy.

All I need now is a Toshi strap for it and I'm sorted - which reminds me I must get my finger out and contact Toshi about this.


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## normdiaz

spring2fan said:


> What is a 'California Dial' please?
> 
> Best Wishes
> 
> David


Potz nailed the explanation. My own tongue-in-cheek opinion is that California does things a bit differently than the other 49 U.S.A. states.


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## ramongonzalez

but good quality for the price


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## rik1967

Whats a fair price to pay for a marina militare? there are some nice ones on ebay at the mo.


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## mrteatime

rik1967 said:


> Whats a fair price to pay for a marina militare? there are some nice ones on ebay at the mo.


depends on model  , hand wound/auto?


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## rik1967

mrteatime said:


> rik1967 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whats a fair price to pay for a marina militare? there are some nice ones on ebay at the mo.
> 
> 
> 
> depends on model  , hand wound/auto?
Click to expand...

Hi mate,i like these two i saw on ebay

Whats a fair price to pay for them? I don't want to pay more than what they are worth


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## Vincero

I payed about Â£60 for the GMT model but would have happily paid a little more... Though it's quite possible you could get one for alot less. If you can get one for Â£60 then get it, ripp the stap off of it and buy a Toshi for Â£45... Then you'll have a damn nice watch. When I hace some spare cash I'll be doing just that!

Thanks,

Vincero


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## RHB

Vincero said:


> I payed about Â£60 for the GMT model but would have happily paid a little more... Though it's quite possible you could get one for alot less. If you can get one for Â£60 then get it, ripp the stap off of it and buy a Toshi for Â£45... Then you'll have a damn nice watch. When I hace some spare cash I'll be doing just that!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Vincero


This is exactly what I did and I couldn't recommend it more.

The combination is brilliant.


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## BondandBigM

rik1967 said:


> Whats a fair price to pay for a marina militare?


About a tenner and if you are really really wanting to have one 20 quid max and that is about all they are worth

I obviously can't link to a sellers site but here is some blurb from their add, the more you buy as a job lot the cheaper they are. Don't be fooled by the Americanism and paying in US dollars they are probably shipped from somewhere in the Far East, you can tell by the last sentence, they got the translation a bit back to front.



> Marina Militare Mechanical Watch
> 
> Price Range: 5~50 USD
> 
> Reliable Pam Style Watch
> 
> Reliable Mechanical Movement 6497 ETA Unitas based
> 
> Full Stainless Steel Oyster Style Case (316L)
> 
> Rubber and/or leather band (different colours)
> 
> Sapphire Crystal
> 
> Waterproof to 5 atm. minimum
> 
> Nice box
> 
> 1 year, NO HASSLE WARRANTY
> 
> If you think that you have the type of watch we are looking for, please feel free to contact us.
> 
> Have a nice day, thank you.


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## mach 0.0013137

& so it continues 

One could ask how much any watch is really worth including the prestigious makes, in the end it comes down to how much each individual is prepared to pay.


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## bunchie32

mach 0.0013137 said:


> & so it continues
> 
> One could ask how much any watch is really worth including the prestigious makes, in the end it comes down to how much each individual is prepared to pay.


:lol:

i'm with you mach. if i was happy to pay a million quid for something, i'd pay it. regardless of actual worth. something i come across all the time with vintage drums. (not the million quid though, sadly.....)


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## mrteatime

mach 0.0013137 said:


> & so it continues
> 
> One could ask how much any watch is really worth including the prestigious makes, in the end it comes down to how much each individual is prepared to pay.


+2


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## ANDI

For those of us who cant and dont want to spend thousands on this style of watch i think they are o.k :yes:


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## BondandBigM

:lol: :lol:

By the way it has absolutely nothing to do with brand snobbery at all as some of you guys here think, buy as many as you like and enjoy but. Here's how it for me. there are some making out these are decent bits of kit, and they may well but I seriously doubt it, and on the basis of that I see quite a few people buying into the hype and paying *silly money* for, if you buy in bulk as the sellers most likely do, a $5 or $10 dollar watch and I think people should be aware of roughly what the real deal is. One thing I hate to see is people getting ripped off, intentionally or otherwise.

I saw one go for Â£140 quid on one forum recently 

I'll bet everything I have on me at the moment, even my bottle of Becks, if someone was selling Omega's at rip off prices that there are plenty on this forum would be all over them like a rash. 

B.


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## mrteatime

BondandBigM said:


> :lol: :lol:
> 
> By the way it has absolutely nothing to do with brand snobbery at all as some of you guys here think, buy as many as you like and enjoy but. Here's how it for me. there are some making out these are decent bits of kit, and they may well but I seriously doubt it, and on the basis of that I see quite a few people buying into the hype and paying *silly money* for, if you buy in bulk as the sellers most likely do, a $5 or $10 dollar watch and I think people should be aware of roughly what the real deal is. One thing I hate to see is people getting ripped off, intentionally or otherwise.
> 
> I saw one go for Â£140 quid on one forum recently
> 
> I'll bet everything I have on me at the moment, even my bottle of Becks, if someone was selling Omega's at rip off prices that there are plenty on this forum would be all over them like a rash.
> 
> B.


a snob? never :lol:


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## bunchie32

well, some people aren't comfortable with buying internationally on ebay. or can't go abroad to buy. or just want to buy from a reliable source and accept the premium thusly attached.

i accept what you're saying, mr bond. but i don't really agree with you. but that's ok.


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## BondandBigM

bunchie32 said:


> well, some people aren't comfortable with buying internationally on ebay. or can't go abroad to buy. or just want to buy from a reliable source and accept the premium thusly attached.
> 
> i accept what you're saying, mr bond. but i don't really agree with you. but that's ok.


Fair comment and I can understand that dealing with overseas dealers could be a bit risky.

B.


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## Jocke

thunderbolt said:


> They are "homage" watches, manufactured in Asia, with local movements. Come in various designs and are usually 44 or 47mm cases. Great watches for the money. Here's mine.


I love that pic, makes the watch look like itÂ´s worth a hundred times more than it is


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## skyMAX08

WHO STARTED THIS BUN FIGHT :lol: :lol:


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## thunderbolt

Jocke said:


> thunderbolt said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are "homage" watches, manufactured in Asia, with local movements. Come in various designs and are usually 44 or 47mm cases. Great watches for the money. Here's mine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love that pic, makes the watch look like itÂ´s worth a hundred times more than it is
Click to expand...

Thanks. One of my better efforts that.


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## mach 0.0013137

skyMAX08 said:


> WHO STARTED THIS BUN FIGHT :lol: :lol:






:rofl:

:cheers: :wink2:


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## thunderbolt

mach 0.0013137 said:


> skyMAX08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WHO STARTED THIS BUN FIGHT :lol: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> :rofl:
> 
> :cheers: :wink2:
Click to expand...

 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## sangman2000

Hi my mm was only Â£80 good value. not fakes as they dont have the brand that they pay homage to, example panerai. i shall be getting another. An after thought. did anyone get theres cheaper?


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## BondandBigM

sangman2000 said:


> Hi my mm was only Â£80 good value. not fakes as they dont have the brand that they pay homage to, example panerai.


Some of the originals had no brand name on the dials 

*Radiomor Paneria [Reference 3646] Circa 1936 to 1938*

The Rolex made Panerai Reference 3646, pictured below has unusual art deco dial known as the California dial which has Roman numerals on the top and Arabic numerals on the bottom. This new model was different than its predecessor in that it had an onion shaped winding crown.


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## RHB

sangman2000 said:


> Hi my mm was only Â£80 good value. not fakes as they dont have the brand that they pay homage to, example panerai. i shall be getting another. An after thought. did anyone get theres cheaper?


I paid Â£60 for mine. The auction ended in the middle of the England v Belarus game and I'm wondering if that kept the bidding down


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## rik1967

Vincero said:


> I payed about Â£60 for the GMT model but would have happily paid a little more... Though it's quite possible you could get one for alot less.


Â£60 is about the average price they go for on ebay at the mo.....but thats more than i have to spend, i want to get one for Â£40 or less.


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## rik1967

BondandBigM said:


> rik1967 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whats a fair price to pay for a marina militare?
> 
> 
> 
> About a tenner and if you are really really wanting to have one 20 quid max and that is about all they are worth
Click to expand...

I really want one for Â£20.....but they are going for much more on ebay.


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## rik1967

BondandBigM said:


> I saw one go for Â£140 quid on one forum recently


 thats a crazy price for a fake from china!!


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## BondandBigM

rik1967 said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw one go for Â£140 quid on one forum recently
> 
> 
> 
> thats a crazy price for a fake from china!!
Click to expand...

I hope you have some flame proof overalls somewhere

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Barreti

rik1967 said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw one go for Â£140 quid on one forum recently
> 
> 
> 
> thats a crazy price for a fake from china!!
Click to expand...

Fake?!









Homage Sir, I'll thank you to refer to these as Homage.

Fake indeed


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## BondandBigM

Barreti said:


> rik1967 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw one go for Â£140 quid on one forum recently
> 
> 
> 
> thats a crazy price for a fake from china!!
> 
> I hope you have some flame proof overalls somewhere
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fake?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Homage Sir, I'll thank you to refer to these as Homage.
> 
> Fake indeed
Click to expand...

I told you, they'll hunt you down and beat you with sticks sorry show you Simpson pictures till you give in

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## BondandBigM




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## jasonm

Im with Rik h34r:


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## jasonm




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## mach 0.0013137

I used to like this forum


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## Toshi

This thread doesn't seem to want to die..... :lol:

OK, so to keep this going here's a serious question. It seems like a lot of people seem to believe that the difference between fake and homage is that a fake pretends to be something it isn't i.e. a fake carries the (false) brand name and the homage doesn't, but what about patented aspects of the watch? I'm thinking of the crown lock system on the Luminor case homages specifically? as this is patented by Panerai does this mean MMs that have them are fakes? Discuss.....

and before anyone accuses me of anything, I'm simply asking the question h34r:


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## BondandBigM

Toshi said:


> This thread doesn't seem to want to die..... :lol:
> 
> OK, so to keep this going here's a serious question. It seems like a lot of people seem to believe that the difference between fake and homage is that a fake pretends to be something it isn't i.e. a fake carries the (false) brand name and the homage doesn't, but what about patented aspects of the watch? I'm thinking of the crown lock system on the Luminor case homages specifically? as this is patented by Panerai does this mean MMs that have them are fakes? Discuss.....
> 
> and before anyone accuses me of anything, I'm simply asking the question h34r:


I'm going to get into more trouble but h34r:

The only difference between fake and and homage is price and a no name dial, I have seen them both made in the same shop selling just about any copy you care to think of,



"Do you want a dial with or without the logo" was the question to a tourist in a shop in Morroco, they made up whatever you wanted to order. Rollie day date presidential Â£25 before a bit of bartering and even cheaper in when I was in China. And to be fair some of them didn't look to bad untill you saw the real thing.

Not a popular comment but hey ho I'll get my coat as some here say 

B.


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## jasonm

My view is that the Alphas and the MMs are produced and sold because they look just like other manufacturers watches, if you have to get close enough to them to see if they have the name on the dial to tell the difference then to me they are copies of the 'real' watch....

To me to homage a design is to pay tribute to a aspect, for example Plongour hands, or font style, basic shape etc... To just reproduce the whole thing is to me at least to close to a copy / fake for my comfort....

Examples of homages to me are Macs Rotary with a vaguely Panerai case, the Seikos with the Doxa style dials, the MMs and Alpha Seamasters, Subs are blatant copies of existing watches, their whole reason for being is to look exactly like the 'other' watches.....

And yes,the crown lock on the Panerai is a patented design and the Militares are in breach of the copyright...

A few years ago there was a guy in the Far East ( RXW Ken Trading ) making very high quality errr 'homages' of the Militare with the crown lock and was shut down and stopped by Panerai for breach of copyright, as such a lot of the US forums banned the discussion of these watches as it fell under the fake categaory..... Im sure the only reason that these havent gone the same way is because they are so spread out in manafacturing terms it would be impossible to find the makers....

A quick google on the subject and it seems that the term Marina Militare is also a 'brand' owned by the Italian Navy and licenced to Panerai, ( I dont know if this is fact mind you)

IMHO of course......

Mac, these discussions are just what its all about, theres no harm in it, they are only watches after all, they dont mean sh*t at the end of they day, Im here to hang out with my mates mostly, the watches are a bonus


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## jasonm

potz said:


> My only hommage/fake is the cali-dialed MM.
> 
> And if anybody asks me about it I tell them exactly what it is and what it isn't and why I bought it.
> 
> Other than that I am a great believer in buying/saving up for the real deal. This entails that there will always be watches I will never posess - in any form or shape.


Exactly Chris, there should always be watches to aspire to, I would love love love to get a Bell and Ross or Daytona or IWC Big Pilot..To get the same look would cost me Â£50 but I would get no satisfaction, I love my Panerai, it took me a lot of work and sacrifice and took ages to afford it I could have bought a Â£30 rep but it wouldnt be the same....


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## Toshi

jasonm said:


> Mac, these discussions are just what its all about, theres no harm in it, they are only watches after all, they dont mean sh*t at the end of they day, Im here to hang out with my mates mostly, the watches are a bonus


Absolutely, and I'm not trying to inflame things by asking the question, I'm just genuinely interested to hear what people think. A lot of people commented in this thread that unless a watch carries a misleading makers mark (i.e. the mark of a brand not directly responsible for the build of the watch in question) it is a homage, and I wondered if that meant they were happy the watch was built using patented aspects of the original.

For what it's worth I don't have a problem with Alpha, or homages generally. I also don't have a problem with MMs (used to have one until recently and enjoyed it), but the question of the crown lock on the Luminor style cases is nagging at me and I wondered if I was the only one.

Talking about the worth of these watches in fiscal terms is pointless IMO. So what if the watch is worth Â£10 or Â£20 and is offered for sale at Â£60 or Â£100.... how many watches from the big brands are really "worth" the money they cost? To me, a watch is worth what someone else is prepared to pay for it, and as long as they know what they are getting and are happy to pay it, then it's worth it.


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## Vincero

Well, this is a touchy subject but I'll have a go at it anyway. I believe that these watches are probably used to create many of the Panerai fakes... Well, if you could swap the Marina Militare dial over for a Panerai dial, you'd probably be able to trick anyone who doesn't really know their watches, and maybe you'd be able to fool Stallone too.  I showed a local jeweller back in the UK my MM and he didn't have to hold it for too long before pointing out the obvious design issues. He told me that my MM case was cast, where as his Panerai Luminor wasn't. His Panerai was much heavier, and was of course of a much higher quality.

So, you could probably fool your mates into believing that you own a multi 1000 dollar watch, but you'll never be able to fool the experts. If you want to wear it as a fake, thats the point when it becomes one. If you pretend that it's something that it isn't then that's in my opinion when the harm is caused. Like potz said; if anyone asked me what I was wearing I'd tell them that it wasn't a Panerai. If they asked me if it was a fake then I'd tell them no, because I'm not trying to pretend it's something it's not - I like the style, but not enough to fork out a hell of alot of cash for. If it keeps time and looks good then that's good enough for me. The irony is, I've never even had someone comment on the watch and mention the name Panerai. Usualy it's just: "Wow that's massive!"

Thanks for listening,

Vincero.


----------



## mach 0.0013137

jasonm said:


> Mac, these discussions are just what its all about, theres no harm in it, they are only watches after all, they dont mean sh*t at the end of they day, Im here to hang out with my mates mostly, the watches are a bonus


Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinions but it would get just as boring if nearly everytime someone posted photos/mentioned Rolex or Panerai watches there were comments about how they were over priced & over hyped, I`m not saying they are but hopefully you get my drift.

I come here to relax, unfortunately I find it`s not as much `fun` as it used to be


----------



## gallch

mach 0.0013137 said:


> I come here to relax, unfortunately I find it`s not as much `fun` as it used to be


That's passage of time I'm afraid - I find very few things are as much fun as they used to be........


----------



## ESL

Hmmm...

I'm sort of with you Mac some of the "fun" has been lost, and it's sort of keeping me from posting as much as I used too - but then I'm sort of with Jase too...

I do object to fakes and the "psuedo" fakes/hommages like MMs and Alphas etc. (or at least the ones that make you look twice just to be sure of what it is you are actually looking at). And I certainly object to them being sold/traded on the sales forum - exactly which part of the rules of the sales forums about sales of fakes or replicas not being allowed, are at all unclear on this subject? But then I'm not a moderator - so what do I know?

A lot of people (mostly all owners of fakes/hommages etc.) argue that they are great value for money, and, well made for the money etc. and they may well be after all is said and done. Some may even go further and assert that they are better than the real thing - and I know some of you will cringe at this next bit - but that is just bollox, sorry but it is. Cheaper yes, better no.

Here's a thought - if the likes of the people who make fakes etc. decided to get into the "straight" watch business and used the same movements etc. and whatever other skills they have to design their own range of watches, with their own styles etc. I wonder how succsessful they would be? I wonder what price they would have to charge to get them on the market? I wonder how many of their new range they would actually sell, if they did not look exactly like something else, but without the brand name in a deluded attempt to legitimise their product?

If anyone thinks that these manufacturers could bring an all new watch to volume market without charging the going rate, then they are deluding themselves. Without having an R&D budget, without having done some market research, without an advertising budget, how many do people really think they would sell?

The reason why these fakes etc. sell - is because there is no need for R&D, or marketing, or advertising etc. In a way - the "real" brands are already providing this for them, already creating the hype and demand for the real thing. The fakers are just riding on their coat-tails and providing "looky-likees" but without having to do any of the work.

Mac, like you too - I also object to people slagging off the premium brands like Omega and Rolex etc. for being overpriced. But at least Omega's and Rolex's are the real thing and are not trying to pass themselves off to being something they are not.


----------



## mjolnir

The debate could run and run couldn't it.

I have to agree that I don't think you can really get the experience of owning an original watch from one of the (i'm hesitant to call them fakes). If you've seen the watch you like and it costs a bit then saving up will often make you appreciate it more.

I've not really said anything original myself though have I :huh:


----------



## mrteatime

.....cant say that im bothered one way or another......  lifes to short, and theres other things to worry about then a watch orn the origin of a watch....

other inportant things to worry about is when is the 710 gonna be back to do my tea?

honestly guys, chill........


----------



## mjolnir

mrteatime said:


> when is the 710 gonna be back to do my tea?


If only...

I have to make the tea round these parts :sadwalk:

She does the washing up though :thumbsup:


----------



## SharkBike

mach 0.0013137 said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mac, these discussions are just what its all about, theres no harm in it, they are only watches after all, they dont mean sh*t at the end of they day, Im here to hang out with my mates mostly, the watches are a bonus
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinions but it would get just as boring if nearly everytime someone posted photos/mentioned Rolex or Panerai watches there were comments about how they were over priced & over hyped, I`m not saying they are but hopefully you get my drift.
> 
> I come here to relax, unfortunately I find it`s not as much `fun` as it used to be
Click to expand...

I have this picture in my mind of you sitting on a park bench muttering to yourself about how fun the old days were...










...ya' cantankerous old curmudgeon.


----------



## mrteatime

SharkBike said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mac, these discussions are just what its all about, theres no harm in it, they are only watches after all, they dont mean sh*t at the end of they day, Im here to hang out with my mates mostly, the watches are a bonus
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinions but it would get just as boring if nearly everytime someone posted photos/mentioned Rolex or Panerai watches there were comments about how they were over priced & over hyped, I`m not saying they are but hopefully you get my drift.
> 
> I come here to relax, unfortunately I find it`s not as much `fun` as it used to be
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have this picture in my mind of you sitting on a park bench muttering to yourself about how fun the old days were...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...ya' cantankerous old curmudgeon.
Click to expand...

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## skyMAX08

Well i started this so i guess i should finish it i am sorry if i have upset some people (Mach and ESL) this was a noobie question obviously asked a thousand times before and discused to death.As i am quite new to the watch collecting comunity I thought somebody could give me the advise i needed i have since realised that whatever watch you have/collect it is a personal choice and not what everybody else thinks is cool or you should have.

Agin i am sorry if this thread has caused any upset cheers STEVE.


----------



## ESL

Hey Steve - No need to apologise man - nothing to apologise for!!! :lol:

It's the watches that generate the polarisation - not the posters. (Well - not always just the watches... h34r: , but not you anyways.

You are welcome here. It's just that us old-uns can get a bit cranky when the clocks go back and it starts getting cold and wet.

I think we ought to start a new "club" - The Grumpy Old WIS's Club"

I don't mind being the founder member









- any more members coming forward?

:lol: :lol:


----------



## BondandBigM

ESL said:


> Hey Steve - No need to apologise man - nothing to apologise for!!! :lol:
> 
> It's the watches that generate the polarisation - not the posters. (Well - not always just the watches... h34r: , but not you anyways.
> 
> You are welcome here. It's just that us old-uns can get a bit cranky when the clocks go back and it starts getting cold and wet.
> 
> I think we ought to start a new "club" - The Grumpy Old WIS's Club"
> 
> I don't mind being the founder member
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - any more members coming forward?
> 
> :lol: :lol:


I'll join

:lol:

B.


----------



## mach 0.0013137

BondandBigM said:


> ESL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Steve - No need to apologise man - nothing to apologise for!!! :lol:
> 
> It's the watches that generate the polarisation - not the posters. (Well - not always just the watches... h34r: , but not you anyways.
> 
> You are welcome here. It's just that us old-uns can get a bit cranky when the clocks go back and it starts getting cold and wet.
> 
> I think we ought to start a new "club" - The Grumpy Old WIS's Club"
> 
> I don't mind being the founder member
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - any more members coming forward?
> 
> :lol: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll join
> 
> :lol:
> 
> B.
Click to expand...

Me too :wink2:

Mind you, I do reserve the right to slap another member if the need arises  :tongue2:


----------



## BondandBigM

mach 0.0013137 said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Steve - No need to apologise man - nothing to apologise for!!! :lol:
> 
> It's the watches that generate the polarisation - not the posters. (Well - not always just the watches... h34r: , but not you anyways.
> 
> You are welcome here. It's just that us old-uns can get a bit cranky when the clocks go back and it starts getting cold and wet.
> 
> I think we ought to start a new "club" - The Grumpy Old WIS's Club"
> 
> I don't mind being the founder member
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - any more members coming forward?
> 
> :lol: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll join
> 
> :lol:
> 
> B.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Me too :wink2:
> 
> Mind you, I do reserve the right to slap another member if the need arises  :tongue2:
Click to expand...

What you trying to say son

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.


----------



## mach 0.0013137

BondandBigM said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Steve - No need to apologise man - nothing to apologise for!!! :lol:
> 
> It's the watches that generate the polarisation - not the posters. (Well - not always just the watches... h34r: , but not you anyways.
> 
> You are welcome here. It's just that us old-uns can get a bit cranky when the clocks go back and it starts getting cold and wet.
> 
> I think we ought to start a new "club" - The Grumpy Old WIS's Club"
> 
> I don't mind being the founder member
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - any more members coming forward?
> 
> :lol: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll join
> 
> :lol:
> 
> B.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Me too :wink2:
> 
> Mind you, I do reserve the right to slap another member if the need arises  :tongue2:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What you trying to say son
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
Click to expand...

Nothing 

Have a nice flight :wink2:


----------



## BondandBigM

mach 0.0013137 said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Steve - No need to apologise man - nothing to apologise for!!! :lol:
> 
> It's the watches that generate the polarisation - not the posters. (Well - not always just the watches... h34r: , but not you anyways.
> 
> You are welcome here. It's just that us old-uns can get a bit cranky when the clocks go back and it starts getting cold and wet.
> 
> I think we ought to start a new "club" - The Grumpy Old WIS's Club"
> 
> I don't mind being the founder member
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - any more members coming forward?
> 
> :lol: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll join
> 
> :lol:
> 
> B.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Me too :wink2:
> 
> Mind you, I do reserve the right to slap another member if the need arises  :tongue2:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What you trying to say son
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing
> 
> Have a nice flight :wink2:
Click to expand...

If I look out and it has my name on the engines then I am in trouble

If you look out and see my name on the engines get off the plane

:lol:


----------



## Toshi

Thought some might be interested to know that Panerai have just recently filed a law suit against Naples Watch:

Plaintiff: Officine Panerai, N.V. Defendant: Naples Watch Company, Michael Burkard and John Does 1 - 10 Case Number: 2:2008cv00799 Filed: October 14, 2008 Court: Florida Middle District Court Office: Fort Myers Office [ Court Info ] County: XX Outside US Presiding Judge: Judge John E. Steele Referring Judge: Magistrate Judge Sheri Polster Chappell Nature of Suit: Intellectual Property - Trademark Cause: 15:1051 Trademark Infringement Jurisdiction: Federal Question Jury Demanded By: None

:huh:


----------



## bunchie32

Toshi said:


> Thought some might be interested to know that Panerai have just recently filed a law suit against Naples Watch:
> 
> Plaintiff: Officine Panerai, N.V. Defendant: Naples Watch Company, Michael Burkard and John Does 1 - 10 Case Number: 2:2008cv00799 Filed: October 14, 2008 Court: Florida Middle District Court Office: Fort Myers Office [ Court Info ] County: XX Outside US Presiding Judge: Judge John E. Steele Referring Judge: Magistrate Judge Sheri Polster Chappell Nature of Suit: Intellectual Property - Trademark Cause: 15:1051 Trademark Infringement Jurisdiction: Federal Question Jury Demanded By: None
> 
> :huh:


i wondered where naples watch had gone. be interesting to see how that pans out. ebay have just pulled a few more chinese sellers off the site aswell.


----------



## jasonm

I would say its priceless Chris h34r:


----------



## bunchie32

potz said:


> Will this increase the value of my contraband Cali MM?


definitely.

get it in storage, quick! :lol:


----------



## bunchie32

potz said:


> bunchie32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> potz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will this increase the value of my contraband Cali MM?
> 
> 
> 
> definitely.
> 
> get it in storage, quick! :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Goodie! I'll stick it in the safe till next year and then offer it in trade for a Daytona and a Deepsea. :rofl:
Click to expand...

 :rofl2: :rofl: :lol:


----------



## VinceR

Toshi said:


> Thought some might be interested to know that Panerai have just recently filed a law suit against Naples Watch:
> 
> Plaintiff: Officine Panerai, N.V. Defendant: Naples Watch Company, Michael Burkard and John Does 1 - 10 Case Number: 2:2008cv00799 Filed: October 14, 2008 Court: Florida Middle District Court Office: Fort Myers Office [ Court Info ] County: XX Outside US Presiding Judge: Judge John E. Steele Referring Judge: Magistrate Judge Sheri Polster Chappell Nature of Suit: Intellectual Property - Trademark Cause: 15:1051 Trademark Infringement Jurisdiction: Federal Question Jury Demanded By: None
> 
> :huh:


That to me says it all!


----------



## michaelh

I did wonder why there were less and less MM's on ebay. So thats why.


----------



## mach 0.0013137

It`ll no doubt make some forum members very happy, at least then the riff raff won`t be able to buy watches that look like their prized possessions









Mind you, no doubt they`ll soon find some thing else to start a witch hunt about


----------



## bunchie32

mach 0.0013137 said:


> It`ll no doubt make some forum members very happy, at least then the riff raff won`t be able to buy watches that look like their prized possessions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mind you, no doubt they`ll soon find some thing else to start a witch hunt about


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

*puts down pitchfork, extinguishes torch and drives bandwagon in circles until the next time*


----------



## mach 0.0013137

bunchie32 said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It`ll no doubt make some forum members very happy, at least then the riff raff won`t be able to buy watches that look like their prized possessions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mind you, no doubt they`ll soon find some thing else to start a witch hunt about
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> *puts down pitchfork, extinguishes torch and drives bandwagon in circles until the next time*
Click to expand...

 :lol:


----------



## jasonm

mach 0.0013137 said:


> It`ll no doubt make some forum members very happy, at least then the riff raff won`t be able to buy watches that look like their prized possessions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mind you, no doubt they`ll soon find some thing else to start a witch hunt about


Thats me isnt it :sadwalk:


----------



## mach 0.0013137

jasonm said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It`ll no doubt make some forum members very happy, at least then the riff raff won`t be able to buy watches that look like their prized possessions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mind you, no doubt they`ll soon find some thing else to start a witch hunt about
> 
> 
> 
> Thats me isnt it :sadwalk:
Click to expand...

Jason Miller, Witchfinder General :fear:










:rofl:


----------



## mel

Going back to the "infringement" lawsuit, if the Broadarrow debacle was anything to go by, a decision might be forthcoming in 2020 or thereabouts? :lol:


----------



## AbingtonLad

Toshi said:


> Thought some might be interested to know that Panerai have just recently filed a law suit against Naples Watch:
> 
> Plaintiff: Officine Panerai, N.V. Defendant: Naples Watch Company, Michael Burkard and John Does 1 - 10 Case Number: 2:2008cv00799 Filed: October 14, 2008 Court: Florida Middle District Court Office: Fort Myers Office [ Court Info ] County: XX Outside US Presiding Judge: Judge John E. Steele Referring Judge: Magistrate Judge Sheri Polster Chappell Nature of Suit: Intellectual Property - Trademark Cause: 15:1051 Trademark Infringement Jurisdiction: Federal Question Jury Demanded By: None
> 
> :huh:


Presumably these guys are also getting a little nervous? And at $1,000 a piece, it's hard to see them as cheap alternatives.










P.S. Hope link works, hope I don't break forum rules, hope I haven't infringed image copyright, hope my head doesn't fall off...


----------



## bunchie32

AbingtonLad said:


> Toshi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thought some might be interested to know that Panerai have just recently filed a law suit against Naples Watch:
> 
> Plaintiff: Officine Panerai, N.V. Defendant: Naples Watch Company, Michael Burkard and John Does 1 - 10 Case Number: 2:2008cv00799 Filed: October 14, 2008 Court: Florida Middle District Court Office: Fort Myers Office [ Court Info ] County: XX Outside US Presiding Judge: Judge John E. Steele Referring Judge: Magistrate Judge Sheri Polster Chappell Nature of Suit: Intellectual Property - Trademark Cause: 15:1051 Trademark Infringement Jurisdiction: Federal Question Jury Demanded By: None
> 
> :huh:
> 
> 
> 
> Presumably these guys are also getting a little nervous? And at $1,000 a piece, it's hard to see them as cheap alternatives.
> 
> P.S. Hope link works, hope I don't break forum rules, hope I haven't infringed image copyright, hope my head doesn't fall off...
Click to expand...

i may be wrong - it has been known :lol: - but i don't think they'll have too much trouble. as i recall, the typeface of the sandwich dial and the california dial, together with the pillow case etc aren't registered trademarks of panerai in the same way that the crown guard is on the panerai luminor cases. this seems to be the real crunch point with the MM's.

therefore, i suspect the above watch won't get into the same mither as the MM's from asia and naples watch. possibly just enough differentiation.

however, that could all be a moot point if panerai decide to bust out all their financial might and go after everyone producing similar products......

although calling one of their models "kampfschwimmer" and some other points in their sales patter might give panerai the hump......


----------



## AbingtonLad

Hmmm. I think you're Bunchie, in that each model individually is close - but maybe not close enough to cause a problem. But yes, taken together (and when you read their blurb) the similarities start to get a little stronger. Who knows if they are 'too strong' for Panerai's liking!

Have to say I do like them, whatever the 'inspiration'. Shame about the price tags...

http://www.picturebay.net/img/guests/DievasAGPLEL.jpg

http://www.picturebay.net/img/guests/Dieva...schwimmerSL.jpg


----------



## AbingtonLad

Doh! Pictures Kev, not links!

(Same fonts/markers, same cushion case... and those crowns are looking rather more familiar...)


----------



## bunchie32

AbingtonLad said:


> Doh! Pictures Kev, not links!
> 
> (Same fonts/markers, same cushion case... and those crowns are looking rather more familiar...)


aye, i thought the same about the crowns. they're probably sailing close to the wind.......but how close is panerai's call really i suppose.

they are pricey too, but i don't think they're that much more expensive than an equivalent 6497/8 based piece like the Stowa, Epos and Steinhart recently posted elsewhere. though i'll grant you those watches are, in the main, standing on their own design feet as it were.


----------



## BondandBigM

mach 0.0013137 said:


> bunchie32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It`ll no doubt make some forum members very happy, at least then the riff raff won`t be able to buy watches that look like their prized possessions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mind you, no doubt they`ll soon find some thing else to start a witch hunt about
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> *puts down pitchfork, extinguishes torch and drives bandwagon in circles until the next time*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> :lol:
Click to expand...

 :lol: :lol:


----------



## BondandBigM

They should put the case up in front of Judge Judy, she doesn't **** about it would be sorted in 2 minutes


----------



## BondandBigM

potz said:


> Long live JJ


----------



## bunchie32

BondandBigM said:


> potz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Long live JJ
Click to expand...

christ. i didn't need to see THAT. :crybaby: :fear:


----------



## spankone

so where is the best place to get a real Marina Militare and not one of them pany rip offs h34r:


----------



## thunderbolt

spankone said:


> so where is the best place to get a real Marina Militare and not one of them pany rip offs h34r:


There's still a few knocking about on ebay. :huh:


----------



## Guest

jasonm said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It`ll no doubt make some forum members very happy, at least then the riff raff won`t be able to buy watches that look like their prized possessions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mind you, no doubt they`ll soon find some thing else to start a witch hunt about
> 
> 
> 
> Thats me isnt it :sadwalk:
Click to expand...

 :lol:


----------



## spankone

thunderbolt said:


> spankone said:
> 
> 
> 
> so where is the best place to get a real Marina Militare and not one of them pany rip offs h34r:
> 
> 
> 
> There's still a few knocking about on ebay. :huh:
Click to expand...

lets see if I have any xmas money left in the new year


----------



## sean666

spankone said:


> so where is the best place to get a real Marina Militare and not one of them pany rip offs h34r:


There is no such thing as a real marina militare they are all basically pany rip offs


----------



## michaelh

sean666 said:


> spankone said:
> 
> 
> 
> so where is the best place to get a real Marina Militare and not one of them pany rip offs h34r:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as a real marina militare they are all basically pany rip offs
Click to expand...

Yeah but good watches for the money. Only had one problem with mine which Roy has fixed.  Got it back today actually.


----------



## mach 0.0013137

Am I going to have to post that Air Raid warning again?


----------



## mrteatime

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Am I going to have to post that Air Raid warning again?


 :yes:


----------



## mach 0.0013137

mrteatime said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Am I going to have to post that Air Raid warning again?
> 
> 
> 
> :yes:
Click to expand...

Finger poised...


----------



## thunderbolt

potz said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should put the case up in front of Judge Judy, she doesn't **** about it would be sorted in 2 minutes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Long live JJ
Click to expand...

Damnation and hellfire man, that's enough to make a bloke turn celibate.









:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## spankone

sean666 said:


> spankone said:
> 
> 
> 
> so where is the best place to get a real Marina Militare and not one of them pany rip offs h34r:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as a real marina militare they are all basically pany rip offs
Click to expand...

You missed my sarcasm, not a problem you'll get it next time


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## Filterlab

Surely a 'fake' would be something trying to look like something it's not; i.e. a non-Panerai watch that is signed Panerai.

The Marina Militaire is similar in looks but not a fake, or one could say that the Sinn Navitimers are fake Breitling Navitimers - which obviously they are not in anyway (and are in fact feckin' desirable).


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## mach 0.0013137

Finger still poised...


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## spankone

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Finger still poised...


*Press it you whimp*

"spankone runs scared"


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## jaslfc5

ive had a few of these now and basically spend as much as you can afford as the cheaper ones are often rubbish,but i still have one i bought in morrocco for 20 euro that is fine quality isnt great but it hasnt exploded and a few shakes and away it goes.

i think they are fakes personally but i dont have a problem with that .but dont buy fakes they are dangerous.










they could have youre eye out .

if i seem a bit contradictory i have severe beer flu and im all over the shop.sorry.

jason.


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## mach 0.0013137

spankone said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Finger still poised...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Press it you whimp*
> 
> "spankone runs scared"
Click to expand...

Not yet, there`s only been very minor action so far


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## jaslfc5

mach 0.0013137 said:


> spankone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Finger still poised...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Press it you whimp*
> 
> "spankone runs scared"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not yet, there`s only been very minor action so far
Click to expand...

ill step it up a bit then.


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## sean666

jaslfc5 said:


> ive had a few of these now and basically spend as much as you can afford as the cheaper ones are often rubbish,but i still have one i bought in morrocco for 20 euro that is fine quality isnt great but it hasnt exploded and a few shakes and away it goes.
> 
> i think they are fakes personally but i dont have a problem with that .but dont buy fakes they are dangerous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they could have youre eye out .
> 
> if i seem a bit contradictory i have severe beer flu and im all over the shop.sorry.
> 
> jason.


That has to be most nasty thing i have ever laid my eyes on !!!

If i was panerai i would hire terrorists to mutilate anyone involved with the making of such a stinking piece of crap !!! :lol:


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## mach 0.0013137

sean666 said:


> jaslfc5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ive had a few of these now and basically spend as much as you can afford as the cheaper ones are often rubbish,but i still have one i bought in morrocco for 20 euro that is fine quality isnt great but it hasnt exploded and a few shakes and away it goes.
> 
> i think they are fakes personally but i dont have a problem with that .but dont buy fakes they are dangerous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they could have youre eye out .
> 
> if i seem a bit contradictory i have severe beer flu and im all over the shop.sorry.
> 
> jason.
> 
> 
> 
> That has to be most nasty thing i have ever laid my eyes on !!!
> 
> If i was panerai i would hire terrorists to mutilate anyone involved with the making of such a stinking piece of crap !!! :lol:
Click to expand...

It is rather vile isn`t it? :lol:


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## jaslfc5

mach 0.0013137 said:


> sean666 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jaslfc5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ive had a few of these now and basically spend as much as you can afford as the cheaper ones are often rubbish,but i still have one i bought in morrocco for 20 euro that is fine quality isnt great but it hasnt exploded and a few shakes and away it goes.
> 
> i think they are fakes personally but i dont have a problem with that .but dont buy fakes they are dangerous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they could have youre eye out .
> 
> if i seem a bit contradictory i have severe beer flu and im all over the shop.sorry.
> 
> jason.
> 
> 
> 
> That has to be most nasty thing i have ever laid my eyes on !!!
> 
> If i was panerai i would hire terrorists to mutilate anyone involved with the making of such a stinking piece of crap !!! :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is rather vile isn`t it? :lol:
Click to expand...

yes it is and its gone to a better place -landfil.


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## mrteatime

i like it h34r:


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## jaslfc5

mrteatime said:


> i like it h34r:


yeah it was nice but my mate likes busy watches and it was for him so what the hell . but if we are going to critique peoples wares then so be it .

jason.


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## mrteatime

jaslfc5 said:


> mrteatime said:
> 
> 
> 
> i like it h34r:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah it was nice but my mate likes busy watches and it was for him so what the hell . but if we are going to critique peoples wares then so be it .
> 
> jason.
Click to expand...

true......one mans dog is another mans Pamela Anderson.......

....are these 2 fugly?



















not to there owners there not


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## mrteatime

now this is seriously fugly.....a highly modded seiko :lol:


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## mach 0.0013137

jaslfc5 said:


> mrteatime said:
> 
> 
> 
> i like it h34r:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah it was nice but my mate likes busy watches and it was for him so what the hell . but if we are going to critique peoples wares then so be it .
> 
> jason.
Click to expand...

A valid point :wink2:

Mind you it won`t stop me continuing to have (with tongue firmly in cheek) the odd dig at Proplofs & Monsters :tease: :lol:


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## jaslfc5

mach 0.0013137 said:


> jaslfc5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mrteatime said:
> 
> 
> 
> i like it h34r:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah it was nice but my mate likes busy watches and it was for him so what the hell . but if we are going to critique peoples wares then so be it .
> 
> jason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A valid point :wink2:
> 
> Mind you it won`t stop me continuing to have (with tongue firmly in cheek) the odd dig at Proplofs & Monsters :tease: :lol:
Click to expand...

youre quite welcome to it mach ,im with you on the ploprofs they are rough would of been nice if they finished machining it ,and mach that zeno looks more like a hip flask .god that feels good .

right whats next.


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## mjolnir

You see I was going to jump in with a nice impartial "can't we all just get along" and mention how I really like all watches including the Ploprof, Monster and Mac's Zeno but then Shawn posted this... :shocking:



mrteatime said:


>


I may have to give up watches. I don't feel so good.


----------



## jaslfc5

mrteatime said:


> now this is seriously fugly.....a highly modded seiko :lol:


i can see what he was thinking with this one ,it looks like the guy out of fantastic four the rubbly guy you know the one.


----------



## sean666

mrteatime said:


> now this is seriously fugly.....a highly modded seiko :lol:


It looks like its been swallowed crapped out then sprayed gold


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## Rotundus

until recently i thought an mm meant mickey mouse.

i think it comes from my brother telling me a t a young age that bmw stood for birmingham motor works.

i believed the sod for years without question.

although i can appreciate a quality build the pany mm styling doesn't do it for me.

well it didn't but that new rlt might be quite nice ...


----------



## mrteatime

sean666 said:


> mrteatime said:
> 
> 
> 
> now this is seriously fugly.....a highly modded seiko :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like its been swallowed crapped out then sprayed gold
Click to expand...

.....and you have experience of doing this then :huh: :huh:

:lol: :lol:


----------



## mach 0.0013137

jaslfc5 said:


> mach that zeno looks more like a hip flask .god that feels good .
> 
> right whats next.


Well as no one has bought it I have to accept that I`m in a very, very small group of people who appreciate the EA-02`s charms :dntknw:

but do I care? :huh:

Like feck I do :tease:

I know it`s wonderful :thumbup:


----------



## spankone

I was watching 4 seperate mm's on ebay. and they have all been removed Its gone from 5 or so pages of mm stuff to just one. so ebay must be on a crack down


----------



## PhilM

Interesting although I can't really see ebay having a conscious


----------



## ESL

mach 0.0013137 said:


> jaslfc5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> mach that zeno looks more like a hip flask .god that feels good .
> 
> right whats next.
> 
> 
> 
> Well as no one has bought it I have to accept that I`m in a very, very small group of people who appreciate the EA-02`s charms :dntknw:
> 
> but do I care? :huh:
> 
> Like feck I do :tease:
> 
> I know it`s wonderful :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Well - I could be tempted Mach...

How much Whisky does it hold?

h34r:


----------



## mach 0.0013137

ESL said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jaslfc5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> mach that zeno looks more like a hip flask .god that feels good .
> 
> right whats next.
> 
> 
> 
> Well as no one has bought it I have to accept that I`m in a very, very small group of people who appreciate the EA-02`s charms :dntknw:
> 
> but do I care? :huh:
> 
> Like feck I do :tease:
> 
> I know it`s wonderful :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well - I could be tempted Mach...
> 
> How much Whisky does it hold?
> 
> h34r:
Click to expand...

A few ccs, more if you remove the movement first :lol:


----------



## crazysurfkid

The main noticable difference between these MM and a Panerai copy is that the MM are a better build + also WProof.



JonW said:


> My Destro Fiddy... unworn... hmm....


----------

