# What Is The Difference Between Mwc And Cwc



## Doctor Varney

Seems like a silly question, I know, but I notice CWC and MWC appear to be very similar watches. I'm talking about the military issue and military inspired cases now.

Also - I notice a handful of manufacturers saying how this watch is an exact copy or genuine example of a watch that was issued to American troops in Vietnam; (namely, MWC, Ollech & Wajs etc). There appear to be many, making the claim, they are sole suppliers to this army, or that. Does this mean that, more than one field watch was commissioned, from more than one company, throughout the conflict, and possibly different watches, issued to different services?

Also - another interesing thing, is this Navy Seals Luminox thing, with their incredibly bright, (not-so-discreet) Tritium sources, as well as the 'metal watch worn in Iraq' thing ("Ouch! Hot bracelet!!!"). I keep reading that mechanical watches are favoured by the military, yet I've heard from what I think is a reliable source, that modern day soldiers are issued with Casio G-shocks - because they're cheap, cheerful, reliable and durable.

The main thing is - I see both CWC and MWC making this exact claim, concerning the Vietnam war. It's not vitally important to me, whether they are genuine or not - what matters more, is just knowing the true history of any watch I decide to own. For me, it's part of the fun, to know something about the piece. A little illumination on the difference and/or relationship, between these two names, might help, methinks.

Thanks,

Doctor V


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## Doctor Varney

Thankyou, Potz! For the potted history, at least...









I am very attracted to the O&W dual time M-series divers, Roy sells. A diver, but with hour-numbers 1-12, instead of the normal dive minutes. Possibly the most 'hard-bizniss-looking' divers I've seen.

I've also been watching a nice little CWC (non-date) starting Â£10 at the moment, on Ebay, which seems to have suddenly adopted tritium on it's face. I'm surprised by this. I'm also surprised at the amount of quartz movements, I'm seeing in the military watches, these days.

I've actually bid on a Burlington 'military style' watch, circa 1940's which needs a clean to get going. I hope I haven't made too much of a costly mistake here, since I'm not competent enough to open the case and clean anything, really. So, we'll just have to see what it does/doesn't do, when it arrives. I take it cleaning is a professional only sort of job?

V


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## Guest

if the ebay CWC is dated as 89, you may want to have a look at the CWC website - Apparently there are a load of badly stored NOS on the market - but they would say that wouldn't they









Cheers

Lee


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## Doctor Varney

I see...

What does NOS stand for? I first saw the term used on Roy's sales site.

MWC= Military Watch co. CWC= ?

Doc.


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## ditchdiger

nos

new old stock

if you want a good cwc [preferable to mwc not the real deal]

there are 2 for sale on the tz sales corner in good nick[less risk than ebay] about Â£50 is the right price

i have just sold a realy good cwc 1995 and a 2004 pulsar aslo military issue

it has a date as well and much better lume,but for some reason sells for a little less than the cwc...........

ignore all that sas, special forces nonsense


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## ditchdiger

just had a look and bumped to the top for you

he still has 2 reduced to Â£40 very good price

[i have no connection to the seller]..........................

heres mine i just sold










and my pulsar i may regret selling, the pulsar was nearley mint










hope this helps


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## mach 0.0013137

Doctor Varney said:


> I've actually bid on a Burlington 'military style' watch, circa 1940's which needs a clean to get going. I hope I haven't made too much of a costly mistake here, since I'm not competent enough to open the case and clean anything, really. So, we'll just have to see what it does/doesn't do, when it arrives. I take it cleaning is a professional only sort of job?
> 
> V


 I`ve not come across the Burlington you`re bidding on before but it is unlikely to be military and it appears to one of many English made post war cheap working mens watches which used the same pin-pallet movement, see a thread I did on them here.... English Pin-pallets

If you do win the Burlington & want/need to have any work done, Steve at www.rytetimewatchrepairs.co.uk mentioned to me that he has some spares for the movements and maybe some other parts as well (they are all basically the same with a few minor differences ie the name on the dial & it`s style).


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## jasonm

There were a few MWC Vrs CWC topics on the forum a while ago, I cant find them now though...Might be worth a search...


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## quoll

A lot of this has been said before, but hell, I'm in the mood..

CWC (Cabot watch Company) have had a UK military contract to supply timepieces since the 1970s. As such they build watches to the specs they are given by the military. That means (99% of the time) three watches - a general purpose field watch (the G10), a diver (the RN-style that is so popular) and a chronograph. All quartz, because that is what the spec asks for. The specification also stipulates a standard of movement and timekeeping - typically 'minimum of five jewels', for example. The movements aren't fantastic, but they are reasonable quality and the one in the G10 would cost you about Â£20-Â£25 if you were to buy it separately. The same movements can be found in very much more expensive brand-name watches BTW.

Because military watches are so popular, CWC sell the same models to the public.

MWC sell replicas of military watches, or military-style watches if you prefer, including the CWC ones. They look the same or similar but would not meet the military specification. The quartz movement in their G10-a-like for example is a no-jewel affair worth about Â£2.50. The watches are made in China and sold here at vastly inflated prices. A Â£200 quartz MWC 'RN diver' is worth about Â£40 tops.

The military have some very small requirements for mechanical watches (there is a current CWC mechanical chronograph for example) but it is very small. Only we watch nuts are prepared to put up with the expense, fragility and cost of mechanical these days.

O&W also sell military-style watches and do not (as far as I know) have any military contracts. But the watches are mechanical and well priced and appeal to watch nuts.


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## Doctor Varney

Thank you all... Especially Quoll, for that concise and comprehensive information! I have indeed learned a lot today.

Cheers,

Doctor V


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## Doctor Varney

mach 0.0013137 said:


> I`ve not come across the Burlington you`re bidding on before but it is unlikely to be military and it appears to one of many English made post war cheap working mens watches which used the same pin-pallet movement, see a thread I did on them here.... English Pin-pallets
> 
> If you do win the Burlington & want/need to have any work done, Steve at www.rytetimewatchrepairs.co.uk mentioned to me that he has some spares for the movements and maybe some other parts as well (they are all basically the same with a few minor differences ie the name on the dial & it`s style).


Thankyou, Mach! It was a chance bid, which I now have a good feeling about, since your recent post. The watch, indeed is described as 'military style' and not military. I'll bear your friend, Steve, in mind, should any cleaning/repair work need doing.

The other I look increasingly more likely to win, is a working, vintage, Smiths Empire, which should look rather nice, with some of the genuine vintage clothes, I also collect. Of course, the age of some of my coats do warrant a pocket watch, but I'm a wristwatch sort of guy, and not trying to impersonate a person from the late eighteen hundreds.

Somehow, I doubt I'll ever buy a watch, or a piece of clothing, I'm not willing to actually wear... I love to keep all this stuff alive.

Cheers,

Doc.


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## Stan

I've got a couple of CWC G10 WWEGS and can vouch for them being of good quality compared to even more expensive quartz watches. They are accurate to within <1 second a week and the seconds hand alignment is spot on over 75% of the sweep, even then the variance is only about the width of the hand itself.

A G10 WWEGS would be a good choice for anyone in need of a reliable and accurate watch, even those not interested in the military pedigree of the type.

Here's my two having a rest.


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## Doctor Varney

Can a quartz movement, such as in the CWC, actually _sweep_?

Cheers,

Doc.


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## William_Wilson

Doctor Varney said:


> Can a quartz movement, such as in the CWC, actually _sweep_?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Doc.


As I understand it, any central second hand is considered a sweep second hand, whether it's movement is continuos or incremental.

Later,

William


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## Doctor Varney

The CWC website and the descriptions of '85-'88s say the G10 has Tritium light source. Not only do those pictured appear to be blobs of lume and not Tritium, but I've just emailed an Ebay seller, who replies, saying:

"The face has luminous paint, which fades after a while".

I don't think he knows that Tritium is. Then again, the face _does_ sport the 'T' symbol. Why, I wonder, are these people saying the G10 face is Tritium-loaded, when it plainly _isn't_? I'm rather confused.

Does the G10 have Tritium vials, or not?

V


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## Stan

Doctor Varney said:


> The CWC website and the descriptions of '85-'88s say the G10 has Tritium light source. Not only do those pictured appear to be blobs of lume and not Tritium, but I've just emailed an Ebay seller, who replies, saying:
> 
> "The face has luminous paint, which fades after a while".
> 
> I don't think he knows that Tritium is. Then again, the face _does_ sport the 'T' symbol. Why, I wonder, are these people saying the G10 face is Tritium-loaded, when it plainly _isn't_? I'm rather confused.
> 
> Does the G10 have Tritium vials, or not?
> 
> V


CWC G10s use Tritium for the luminous markers and this has a halflife of around 13.3 years. I think tritium painted directly to hands and dials has been outlawed in the EU and US for some time but Tritium vials may be OK still.


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## Doctor Varney

So it's just Tritium paint then? I was looking at Luminox Tritium watches and they light up like a Xmas tree. I assumed Tritium was a gas, inside a tiny glass vial and gave off light, whether or not it was charged with a lamp beforehand, not merely luminous paint.

There was me, thinking that if I bought a G10, it would light up like a Luminox... (Quite what that would be like on a battle field at night - "_Guys... don't shoot, till you can see the time on the their watches!_")









I find this very misleading. I think I must have made a mistake somewhere. It doesn't look to me as though any of the CWCs have gas-filled vials... It must be something peculiar to Luminox and Smith & Wesson. But you're right, Stan - the T-lume is missing on the 2000 issue RAF watch.

Thanks.

Doc.


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## Stan

That's right Doc. Radium was originally used as the luminous material on watches but being very nasty stuff was replaced by Tritium. Tritium is radioactive but far less so than Radium, and was used on watches for decades until outlawed in most countries.

Due to the thickness and density of a G10 case I doubt there was ever any danger to the wearer.









I'm not sure how Tritium vials are constructed or what amount of Tritium is used in them but I suspect that they would have to be considered safe even in the event of a breakage.

The good thing about Tritium is that it didn't need to be light activated, unlike materials such as Luminova, and would glow well for many years. I quite miss Tritium painted hands and dials, I thought them quite magical when I was a nipper.


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## mach 0.0013137

Stan said:


> That's right Doc. Radium was originally used as the luminous material on watches but being very nasty stuff was replaced by Tritium. Tritium is radioactive but far less so than Radium, and was used on watches for decades until outlawed in most countries.
> 
> Due to the thickness and density of a G10 case I doubt there was ever any danger to the wearer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how Tritium vials are constructed or what amount of Tritium is used in them but I suspect that they would have to be considered safe even in the event of a breakage.
> 
> The good thing about Tritium is that it didn't need to be light activated, unlike materials such as Luminova, and would glow well for many years. I quite miss Tritium painted hands and dials, I thought them quite magical when I was a nipper.


In those far off, pre electric, gas lite days, I`m not surprised


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## Stan

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Stan said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's right Doc. Radium was originally used as the luminous material on watches but being very nasty stuff was replaced by Tritium. Tritium is radioactive but far less so than Radium, and was used on watches for decades until outlawed in most countries.
> 
> Due to the thickness and density of a G10 case I doubt there was ever any danger to the wearer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how Tritium vials are constructed or what amount of Tritium is used in them but I suspect that they would have to be considered safe even in the event of a breakage.
> 
> The good thing about Tritium is that it didn't need to be light activated, unlike materials such as Luminova, and would glow well for many years. I quite miss Tritium painted hands and dials, I thought them quite magical when I was a nipper.
> 
> 
> 
> In those far off, pre electric, gas lite days, I`m not surprised
Click to expand...

You forgot the outside toilet with newspaper for bog roll.


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## mach 0.0013137

Stan said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stan said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's right Doc. Radium was originally used as the luminous material on watches but being very nasty stuff was replaced by Tritium. Tritium is radioactive but far less so than Radium, and was used on watches for decades until outlawed in most countries.
> 
> Due to the thickness and density of a G10 case I doubt there was ever any danger to the wearer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how Tritium vials are constructed or what amount of Tritium is used in them but I suspect that they would have to be considered safe even in the event of a breakage.
> 
> The good thing about Tritium is that it didn't need to be light activated, unlike materials such as Luminova, and would glow well for many years. I quite miss Tritium painted hands and dials, I thought them quite magical when I was a nipper.
> 
> 
> 
> In those far off, pre electric, gas lite days, I`m not surprised
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forgot the outside toilet with newspaper for bog roll.
Click to expand...

Sorry Stan, I didn`t know your family were posh


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## Stan

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Stan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stan said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's right Doc. Radium was originally used as the luminous material on watches but being very nasty stuff was replaced by Tritium. Tritium is radioactive but far less so than Radium, and was used on watches for decades until outlawed in most countries.
> 
> Due to the thickness and density of a G10 case I doubt there was ever any danger to the wearer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how Tritium vials are constructed or what amount of Tritium is used in them but I suspect that they would have to be considered safe even in the event of a breakage.
> 
> The good thing about Tritium is that it didn't need to be light activated, unlike materials such as Luminova, and would glow well for many years. I quite miss Tritium painted hands and dials, I thought them quite magical when I was a nipper.
> 
> 
> 
> In those far off, pre electric, gas lite days, I`m not surprised
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forgot the outside toilet with newspaper for bog roll.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry Stan, I didn`t know your family were posh
Click to expand...

Yep, we lived in a paper ba....................

I'm not starting that one off again.


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## mach 0.0013137




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## ditchdiger

the 2004 pulsar version i just sold

had better lume than seiko,dont know what it was though

the cwc s seem to lose it quite soon but still a great watch..................


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## Doctor Varney

Excellent, excellent info, guys. Thanks for taking the trouble.... And funny, as well.









Doc.


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## quoll

Yes, the CWC G10 has tritium painted lume. I have a new one and the lume, whilst not super-bright, lasts very well. Superluminova will be much brighter when it is freshly charged by light but after a few hours the tritium outshines it. As far as I know tritium lume is still perfectly legal and the radiation levels are undetectable. I have a radiation detector and I've tried it. Conversely, I used to have a mid-1980s G10 and the lume was virtually nonexistent. Tritium's 13 year half-life sees to that.

All the CWC military watches (including all the divers) have tritium - except the GS2000 dated version of the G10. As far as I know the UK MoD specification calls for tritium; maybe that changed recently which would explain the GS2000.

I think tritium vial hands and dials are all made by a firm called MD-Microtec and sold on to other manufacturers - including Traser and Luminox. Or maybe Traser is the same firm? I am not sure where Marathon (Canadian) get theirs from but it is probably the same place.


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## Doctor Varney

I'm just curious now, as to whether the T-gas vials are like lamps, on the Luminox - using power from the battery to illuminate. I do know that gas filled lamps use very little charge to get going and these things are quite tiny. It would explain a lot. A small amount of gas, in a vaccum, will last for a good amount of years and take only a tiny charge to illuminate. What a nice thing to have for Xmas... that cheery glow...

Now - another thing:

Hamilton. Anyone know what their relationship was with the military, in years gone by?

Cheers,

Doctor V


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## William_Wilson

Doctor Varney said:


> I'm just curious now, as to whether the T-gas vials are like lamps, on the Luminox - using power from the battery to illuminate. I do know that gas filled lamps use very little charge to get going and these things are quite tiny. It would explain a lot. A small amount of gas, in a vaccum, will last for a good amount of years and take only a tiny charge to illuminate. What a nice thing to have for Xmas... that cheery glow...
> 
> Now - another thing:
> 
> Hamilton. Anyone know what their relationship was with the military, in years gone by?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Doctor V


As I recall, they operate something like this: The gaseous tritium emits radiation. The radiation has a collision with the inner coating of the tubes and this is when the glow takes place. Differant coatings result in differant colours. The radiation given off by the tritium is so weak that almost any surface will stop it. Glass, metal, skin and the tubes that contain it. To be harmfull you would need to break a large number of tubes and breath the gas in, considering the cost of tritium watches that's not going to happen.

Later,

William


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