# A Kindle Trap?



## sparky the cat (Jan 28, 2009)

Guys,

I know from other posts that a nuber of you have Kindles-and I can't get my head around. SHMBO has declared we are getting a Kindle for Christmas (at least it will be better than a Wi although I would love a new camera.

My question, "Does it get you into an Amazon trap - a bit like apple itunes?". Can you use the Kindle with alternative pdfs (OCr only I would assume). There are number of sources for getting e-books that would be cheaper than Amazon. If the Kindle can't use alternative pdfs - what alternative e-book reader would you recommend - ease of reading and low eye strain will of course be a priority.

Regards

George

Sources of cheap e-books (by PM if you like) would also be appreciated.


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

sparky the cat said:


> Guys,
> 
> I know from other posts that a nuber of you have Kindles-and I can't get my head around. SHMBO has declared we are getting a Kindle for Christmas (at least it will be better than a Wi although I would love a new camera.
> 
> ...


I've got the Sony PRS-T1, and would buy Sony everytime over Amazon.

As to the 'Kindle trap', you've nothing to worry about. There is a free piece of library software called Calibre (Google is your friend) that can sort, store and change the format of ANY book you download, and put the format into MOBI for sending to your Kindle. Or in EPUB in the case of my Sony. Buy one, and you'll find you have to buy more until every reader in your house has one of their own. Enjoy. :man_in_love:

EDIT

I see you have Derby listed as your location? If thats the case simply join any Derby library, they allow free downloads of E-books for up to 21 days (although these will be in PDF or EPUB format). You won't be able to change the format of these without removing the copy protection, but this is possible, and simple. :angel_not:


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## Retronaut (Jun 14, 2010)

For buying on the Kindle device itself you are tied to Amazon.

You are free to source books from other places and either email them to your Kindle (will sync over wifi or 3G) or copy them over using a USB lead.

If alternative books are not in Kindle format you can convert them using the excellent free software Calibre.

The Kindle does support pdfs but rather clumsily - you are better to get text based documents (word .doc, .lit, .epub etc) and convert them to Kindle (.mobi).

Personally I'd recommend you go with the Kindle and spend a little time with Calibre - once you've cracked that you can load pretty much anything onto it.

Other e-readers are passable in my mind but the Kindle generally leads the way on functionality and price - most likely any others you can find cheaper will not be as good.

:cheers:

Rich.


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Get the Kindle....

Its great... PM me when you do


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## sparky the cat (Jan 28, 2009)

Thanks for that gents - as usual a knowledgeable and fast response. Read the responses to SHMBO and she is smiling - bang goes the camera.

By the way she didnâ€™t mention the Kindle when we were in Debs (at Planet) buying her Christmas presents - or so I thought we were buying Christmas presents. She waited until after I made purchases and we had left the shop before she declared we should be getting a Kindle. You would think that after 27 years of marriage I would have learned. I think its officially known as 'Christmas present list creep'


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## sparky the cat (Jan 28, 2009)

Just noticed my mail box was full - if you were trying to PM me, sorry. Clear now


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Well I have been thinking about the Kobo reader ... if the blurb is to believed it is open unlike Kindle


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

I would think most of these "tablet" type things can have books on them. My andriod phone came loaded with half a dozen or so books and there are loads available to download free. I have bought Big M an android tablet for her christmas as she reads two or three books a week and thought they looked a bit more colourful than a kindle.


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

I work at a major Linux company, and internal mailing lists are full of discussions of iOS vs. Android-based devices. Many of my colleagues want to know if you they can root (like "Jailbreak" for Apple devices) any given new device and run alternative ROMs.

The Kindle looks promising. Out of the box though, all the reviews I read were that it was a budget-priced tablet that did a lot ... not as much as an iPad or full-blown Android Honeycomb tablet ... but was slanted towards the Amazon perspective. For that latter, I wouldn't get it unless Amazon subsidized it, heavily. I think they do, actually as I have Amazon Prime. If you DON'T have Amazon Prime (and it's a great deal here in the US, with free 2-day shipping, a lot of free streaming to my BD player, cloud player app for Android), the Kindle Fire with Prime get's you Prime at a bargain price (for the first year). FWIW, I'm just about ready to abandon Netflix and rely on Amazon Video. Amazon DOES have an Android market, and several apps for Android devices, so the Kindle Fire isn't the only game in town.

If SHMBO (glad to see that term's still in use) wants a tablet for lots of things, including those she hasn't thought of yet, a full-blown Android fondleslab or IPad would be in order. The Register has several very helpful reviews, both of the hottest tablets, and the bargain basement models. I'd go through both reviews with her and see what rings all Nine Tailors. I test drove an Acer Iconia A500 (32gb) for a couple of months and liked it lots; it was a superb GPS device with Google maps and Navigate.

HTH....


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## retro72 (Jan 19, 2005)

I have an Android phone and tablet and would say that Android is more flexible when you want to put new roms on them. I have used different roms but to be honest I couldn't see any difference unless you are a power user. I have an excellent reader on my tablet and currently have Alan Partridge and Roger Moore autobiography on it. It reads both pdf and epub format. It's a viewsonic viewpad7 from maplins.

Edit: be careful which tablet you buy. Not all support the Google market and only give you access to a third party market. Viewsonic's is official Google market. Not as good as iPad but you gets what you pay for.


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## Philz (Oct 20, 2009)

If you look on Amazon Kindle store you will also find many free books.


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

There is a world of difference between a tablet (any) and a dedicated E-reader, not least of which is the battery life (around a month with an ereader, and a matter of hours on tablet).

Another point is that reading on an E-reader is similar to reading a book (the reason that e-ink screens are known as 'paper like' screens), its a lot easier on the eyes, and can still be carried out in full sunlight on a beach, should you be lucky enough to be on holiday in warmer climes.

If you want a device to read books, buy a dedicated E-reader. But if you want a device to browse the web, buy a tablet or note-book. None of the current crop of E-readers work well on the web, and never will, its a limit of the technology that e-ink works differently and the refresh rate will drive you mad if you try using it for more than downloading books from the internet.


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## sparky the cat (Jan 28, 2009)

Thanks for the replies since my last post :notworthy: . Bit more to this e-book reader than I thought (such is the power of the Amazon advertising machine). Need to do a bit more reading, don't know what this 3G on the knindle is all about - just it costs more money

Think SHMBO is mainly after a book reader - she reads a lot, into Jack Reacher at the moment (she can't believe little Tom Cruise got the film part :swoon2: ).

I would most probably use it as well - but I'm mainly into techie things (can't leave the engineering at work). So I would like something that give good diagrams on the screen and a bit bigger. Noticed the Kindle DX - expensive, but big and appears to have good graphics, however, only seems to be available in the States as far as I can tell.

Are Kindle going to do the Apple trick - get the first one out quick and follow every year with an improved version (I think iphone is up to 4 already - not that I know about these things). Good week ahead guys!

George


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

feenix said:


> There is a world of difference between a tablet (any) and a dedicated E-reader, not least of which is the battery life (around a month with an ereader, and a matter of hours on tablet).
> 
> Another point is that reading on an E-reader is similar to reading a book (the reason that e-ink screens are known as 'paper like' screens), its a lot easier on the eyes, and can still be carried out in full sunlight on a beach, should you be lucky enough to be on holiday in warmer climes.
> 
> If you want a device to read books, buy a dedicated E-reader. But if you want a device to browse the web, buy a tablet or note-book. None of the current crop of E-readers work well on the web, and never will, its a limit of the technology that e-ink works differently and the refresh rate will drive you mad if you try using it for more than downloading books from the internet.


Interesting and not something I thought about tbh. Fortunately two things in my case, Big M, even though she has wanted one for a bit now, will probably never figure out how it works and it didn't cost a lot. To be fair I have read a few of the preloaded books and found it to be ok.


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## IainC (Sep 24, 2011)

I've had many many gadgets over the years and - *without doubt* - the Kindle is the best one of the lot. The screen is superb - read it anywhere. Bright sunshine? - the screen just looks better. Battery life? - you can take it on a three week holiday and never worry about charging it.

IMO however, the thing that puts it head and shoulders above the competition is the integration with the Amazon store. In less than 30 seconds you can go from wanting a book to reading it. No messing around with cables and computer connections. I've used Calibre, which is a great piece of software, but when you're sitting on the beach and need the next book in the trilogy you're reading, you don't even need to get out of your deckchair. Also IMO it's worth paying the extra to get the inbuilt 3G - get your books anywhere with no ongoing 3G bills to pay.

And it's a piece of technology that's dedicated to one task - reading books. No being sidetracked by APPS, emails or whatever, just straightforward reading.

And it's light enough to read in bed comfortably.

Just my two pence worth for the Kindle :notworthy:


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

I think they mentioned on the Gadget Show this week that there's a new Kindle being released sometime in the near future, so the price of the existing one should go down a bit if you don't mind living with "old" technology. However, if you want the latest gizmos, you might be better off waiting to see what the replacement is like. :thumbsup:


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

Davey P said:


> I think they mentioned on the Gadget Show this week that there's a new Kindle being released sometime in the near future, so the price of the existing one should go down a bit if you don't mind living with "old" technology. However, if you want the latest gizmos, you might be better off waiting to see what the replacement is like. :thumbsup:


It's just the UK release of the model thats already released in the US. I can't see a price reduction for the non-touch version being due as its just a staged release.


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

IainC said:


> Also IMO it's worth paying the extra to get the inbuilt 3G - get your books anywhere with no ongoing 3G bills to pay.


Have to disagree with this bit - perhaps no "ongoing" 3G bills to pay, but pay you certainly do... upfront... some Â£60 over & above the latest non 3G version.

With its huge storage (as far as number of books is concerned), there really should be no danger of running out of anything to read.

Although my e-reader is an old Sony, I fully +1 everything else said about Kindles & Calibre


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## Deco (Feb 15, 2011)

Has anyone had a chance to test drive the new (small) kindle rather than the older one with the kindle keyboard?

My understanding is that it's size V battery life/memory/audio/3G(optional).

My thinking is size - the new one may be a tad small, this is my main concern but the screen size appears to be the same on both?; battery life of 1 month - I can live with that; Memory - 1,500 books is probably enough; Audio - never listened to an audio book in my life, not planning on starting now; 3G - I'm organised enough to load what I want at home/McDonalds, so not an issue!

Right that's my (710's) mind made up for my Christmas present!

Dec


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## Retronaut (Jun 14, 2010)

Yes new model Kindle readers are same screen as previous generation Kindle 3. My father in law recently got one - it's a good bit quicker navigating through menus than the Kindle 3. Other than the footprint save from no keyboard I didn't notice any other major changes.


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## sparky the cat (Jan 28, 2009)

Hi guys

Thanks for all the replies, very much appreciated. :hi:

After reading through them, looking at the posted link (thanks Dave) and a bit of youtubing I decided that itâ€™s going to be a Kindle. Now the question was which one. I made a decision - quick for me.

The new one although the screen size is the same as the others appears not a be good â€˜holdâ€™ compared to the keyboard version. The features on the keyboard may be useful - MP3 etc. So having decided it was going to be the keyboard one - to 3G or not to 3G, that is the question (apologies to the bard). Decided no 3G as it costs more and if we she cannot sort enough reading material whilst in the house - deserves it.

So decided a keyboard non-3G - so off to Amazon to get one (really on a roll now) and b***er me - theyâ€™ve none in stock. :jawdrop:

Oh well I tried - PC world have them but need to make a special trip to get one.

George


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## Chukas (Aug 7, 2008)

I've got 21,000 books on my hard drive and all you do is drag which books you want across.


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Chukas said:


> I've got 21,000 books on my hard drive and all you do is drag which books you want across.


Show off.... Ive only got 4500 :beee:


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## sparky the cat (Jan 28, 2009)

I've got errrr......none, but I'm sure with a little help from my friends I can rectify this situation.

Amazon still haven't got the keyboard version in stock - Tesco don't list it anymore - is it being phased out and they are forcing 3G onto the unsuspecting public h34r:


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

I'm finding this quite interesting as my wife went to PC World last night & bought a Kindle 4 (Â£89). Even though it's my Chrimbo pressie I had a play with it last night all the same , connected it to the internet (wi-fi) without any problems & bought a couple of books from Amazon so that I'd have something to read on Christmas day. I've never really looked at e-readers before but it seems a nice bit of kit to me, it's light so comfortable to hold/handle & I couldn't find fault with the display - bright & clear enough for me to read in "normal" light (a couple of table lamps only - main light off) even though I struggle with paperbacks in the same light. Also there are 1000's of book available for it on Amazon - many of them are free or very low in price so I'll probably try books that I wouldn't have considered buying otherwise.

I'm not going to stop buying books because I've now got a Kindle but I can see it being a useful addition & a godsend on holiday when I can take loads of different books with me without overloading the plane 

I'll definitely look into Calibre - thanks for the heads up :thumbup:


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

pauluspaolo said:


> I'm finding this quite interesting as my wife went to PC World last night & bought a Kindle 4 (Â£89). Even though it's my Chrimbo pressie I had a play with it last night all the same , connected it to the internet (wi-fi) without any problems & bought a couple of books from Amazon so that I'd have something to read on Christmas day. I've never really looked at e-readers before but it seems a nice bit of kit to me, it's light so comfortable to hold/handle & I couldn't find fault with the display - bright & clear enough for me to read in "normal" light (a couple of table lamps only - main light off) even though I struggle with paperbacks in the same light. Also there are 1000's of book available for it on Amazon - many of them are free or very low in price so I'll probably try books that I wouldn't have considered buying otherwise.
> 
> I'm not going to stop buying books because I've now got a Kindle but I can see it being a useful addition & a godsend on holiday when I can take loads of different books with me without overloading the plane
> 
> I'll definitely look into Calibre - thanks for the heads up :thumbup:


Leeds Library Service have a pretty good E-book service which is free to join, and free to have books for upto 21 days.

Of course unscrupulous people would strip out the copy protection and keep them for as long as they want, not me you understand, but some people :angel_not:


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

How much is an average book download?

I am still not there yet................the weight saving is good for me (every g counts when cycle touring) otherwise I prefer my books, I like my bookshelves to be full of, er, books. I also like to hold them and the covers fire my imagination too. I don't read fiction, ever, and the books I want can often be specialised, however, I normally pay only Â£2/Â£3 for a real life "as new" book (everything via Ebay) including postage................


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

MarkF said:


> How much is an average book download?
> 
> I am still not there yet................the weight saving is good for me (every g counts when cycle touring) otherwise I prefer my books, I like my bookshelves to be full of, er, books. I also like to hold them and the covers fire my imagination too. I don't read fiction, ever, and the books I want can often be specialised, however, I normally pay only Â£2/Â£3 for a real life "as new" book (everything via Ebay) including postage................


Depends what book(s) you're after I suppose - I paid about Â£10 for the two books I downloaded last night - if I'd been buyiing them in the shops one would have been Â£15 at least as it's only out in hardback at the moment, the other would have been standard paperback price (Â£8ish) - so quite reasonable I think. I was looking in the crime fiction/sci-fi sections on Amazon's Kindle store last night & there were 100's of books that were free to download or under a quid. No idea about non-fiction books as I didn't look.

One thing I am interested to learn is how well a Kindle can display colour photo's/images i.e. hypothetically speaking if I were to download a Haynes manual for my car (if it were available in e-book format) how clear would the photo's be?

Also on the Kindle you can get magazines (I didn't look so I've no idea what titles are available) & the same question applies i.e. if I were to buy a car mag how clear would the photo's be?


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

You'll find that ebooks in the UK are typically slightly more expensive than paper books, and they don't get discounted to the same extent (three for two, etc).

As for the the ideas of reading a magazine on the Kindle? Don't punish yourself. I've a 7 inch reader and its just about bearable, the 6 inch Kindle screen just spoils the whole experience.

Black and white pictures are pretty clear (for your Haynes question) but as the display only has 16 shades of grey and no colour anything else can be a little hit and miss.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

pauluspaolo said:


> Depends what book(s) you're after I suppose - I paid about Â£10 for the two books I downloaded last night - if I'd been buyiing them in the shops one would have been Â£15 at least as it's only out in hardback at he moment, the other would have been standard paperback price (Â£8ish) - so quite reasonable I think.





feenix said:


> You'll find that ebooks in the UK are typically slightly more expensive than paper books, and they don't get discounted to the same extent (three for two, etc).


Hmm, for me then, it's not worth it, I buy a lot of books, but never new. I decide what I want and then go and it buy "As new" via Ebay, if I could get cheap "As new" downloads that would be good.


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

MarkF said:


> feenix said:
> 
> 
> > You'll find that ebooks in the UK are typically slightly more expensive than paper books, and they don't get discounted to the same extent (three for two, etc).
> ...


I get most of my books free from the library, but the non-fiction sections are not yet comprehensive. Have a look at the London Library service and you'll see what I mean, HERE.

A quick glance at the US e-libraries will show you that the service will get better, but we are lagging at least a year behind so far. UK libraries have around a thousand or so fiction titles, US libraries have twenty thousand or so. Its a matter of scale.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

feenix said:


> A quick glance at the US e-libraries will show you that the service will get better, but we are lagging at least a year behind so far. UK libraries have around a thousand or so fiction titles, US libraries have twenty thousand or so. Its a matter of scale.


Thanks for that link. Yes, I am sure there'll be a time for it to make sense for me but not for a while yet. I prefer physical books so I am not going to pay *more *for a download. I'll keep an eye on things, be interesting to see how things develop and how long a download price can kept so compartively high.


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

MarkF said:


> pauluspaolo said:
> 
> 
> > Depends what book(s) you're after I suppose - I paid about Â£10 for the two books I downloaded last night - if I'd been buyiing them in the shops one would have been Â£15 at least as it's only out in hardback at he moment, the other would have been standard paperback price (Â£8ish) - so quite reasonable I think.
> ...


You can't get cheaper than Â£0 & the fact that they are free means I'll try out books/authors that I probably wouldn't have shelled out dosh for in a shop.

As I've said I'm not intending the Kindle to be a replacement for my books as I love the feel of holding a book, turning the next page, the look of them on a bookshelf etc etc. I can't imagine taking it into the garage, like one of the aforementioned Haynes manuals for example, but as a way of carrying/storing loads of books the Kindle, or any other e-reader for that matter, is fantastic (I think).

I too buy most of my books secondhand/used, my wife & I regularly trawl the charity shops for a bargain buy - the most recent of which was a virtually as new copy of the new(?) Lee Child (Jack Reacher) novel "Worth Dying For" for Â£1.50; it was more than that on the Kindle store (Â£5ish I think) so a definite bargain - can't say I've ever bought a book off Ebay but it's obviously another option.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

pauluspaolo said:


> You can't get cheaper than Â£0 & the fact that they are free means I'll try out books/authors that I probably wouldn't have shelled out dosh for in a shop.


But as I said, I don't read fiction, can you can find me things like the Spanish guide to the Ruta de la Plata, The Cyclists Manifesto or The Basque History of The World for Â£0? It's mainly minority demand books that I am likely to want, then I pick them upon Ebay for peanuts.

I am interested only in the weight and space saving over physical books, that would be useful for me, but that is only a couple of holidays and cycle tours a year.


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

Kindle Daily Deal http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html/ref=amb_link_157681107_2/280-1180868-6931763?ie=UTF8&docId=1000577623&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=left-2&pf_rd_r=1AVYS378DKJW1SSHRR2N&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=262060747&pf_rd_i=341689031 from 99p

There is also Kindle Bargains

Plenty of free sources too - Demonoid for example :angel_not:


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## Monaco (Dec 1, 2011)

Been looking at these as a possible xmas pressie for the wife.


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

Monaco said:


> Been looking at these as a possible xmas pressie for the wife.


They really are a great present for those that enjoy reading.

My mother only has 20% vision left, but thanks to the ability to zoom the fonts larger can still manage to read on the new pearl screen devices.


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## jimbo1878 (Oct 6, 2010)

I have bought one for my partner for crimbo. I bought it mainly for the dictionary function which I think is a great feature as she struggles with certain words due to mild dyslexia and looses interest through frustration. Also the space it will save in my bookshelf will be a bonus!!

Also thanks to certian file share sites I have downloaded thousands of books ready to be loaded onto the Kindle totally free of charge.


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## guest_2134 (Oct 29, 2011)

Just bought the 89 quid Kindle about 3 days ago...

Pretty good to be honest, is getting way more use than my Ipad, so much easier to get books as well...

I study foreign languages, is really convinient to have the dictionary function, makes life way easier when reading.

I think is worth it, makes reading a bit easier.


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

MarkF said:


> pauluspaolo said:
> 
> 
> > Depends what book(s) you're after I suppose - I paid about Â£10 for the two books I downloaded last night - if I'd been buyiing them in the shops one would have been Â£15 at least as it's only out in hardback at he moment, the other would have been standard paperback price (Â£8ish) - so quite reasonable I think.
> ...


As I work for a publisher, I can explain the difference. In the UK, physical books are VAT free but ebooks are not, so it is not unusual to see a physical book for Â£4 and the ebook for Â£5 - the lovely government take the extra Â£1

The saving is on new, Hardback titles. Hardbacks cost a lot more to produce than paperbacks, but this cost is irrelevent to ebooks.

I don't have a kindle yet, but I am hoping for a kindle shaped present under the tree this year (or at least some amazon vouchers!). If I don't like it then it'll go on eBay - Used kindles sell for more on there than new ones from amazon!


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

just this too, which is only available on Kindle edition

watches


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## sparky the cat (Jan 28, 2009)

Still haven't got my Kindle - yet. Amazon are still out of stock - strange. I like the idea of Amazon as you can send it back if you don't like it. Can't think why SHMBO wouldn't like it - but you never know.

Things got complicated on Saturday. I was in WH Smiths and what should catch my eye - a magazine. The e-book readers and pad special edition it proclaimed. Like a mug I picked it up. The Kindle fire is coming to Britain - 7" screen, touch sensitive, full colur - does everything except wipe your b*m it screamend. All that at the cost of about Â£100.

When I got home, straight onto the web to read more about this wonder machine. Turns out only availalbe in the States - if it were here it wouldn't work as it's missing some permits for streaming (or some other witchcrapft thingy). No release date, the orginal took 2-years to get acdross the pond. And still Amazon don't have the keyboard only machine in stock.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Nah, been looking at info this week..............I am only interested (as I've said before) in weight saving on holidays and cycle trips, for that I am sure that they are superb. But, most nights I see guys using Ereaders on the train, out of their briefcases, what's the advantage? How many books can you read before the Leeds train gets to Skipton half an hour later?

Â£10 a download when I can get 4 "as new" physical books for Â£10, sorry, I just can't get my head around that. It's a cartel, we know that, I've thought about the printing, the stocking and the transportation of physical books and the download sellers are coming out with all sorts of spurious reasons for why the download prices are so, artificially, high. The best I thought was this, hysterical.

â€œPublishers do price ebooks a little higher than necessary, because theyâ€™re concerned about devaluing peopleâ€™s perception of books,â€ :lol:

I think they are great, and when the download prices come down to a level I think appropriate, say 60% the cost of the physical equivalent, I'll have one.


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

As has been said before Mark, there are lots of alternatives to buying ebooks from Amazon.....


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

Neither of the e-books I bought cost Â£10 & represented a good saving on the price of new books in the shops - one of which is only available in hardback in January (so isn't even in the shops yet). For the books you want Mark maybe the Kindle, or any other e-reader, wouldn't be much use but for someone wanting to dip into a book (or carry/read more than one book) on the journey home it's pretty good I think.

As I've said it isn't going to replace books, or magazines, but it is an alternative & will be great on holiday.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

jasonm said:


> As has been said before Mark, there are lots of alternatives to buying ebooks from Amazon.....


I've been looking Jase, but the downloads for books that I want are often unavailable, the same price as the physical book, or often, more expensive than the physical book!


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Loads of people round the pool with these electronic "books", a couple of problems though. I never glanced at one that was any good in the bright sunlight, secondly what do you do with it when you go for a dive in the pool and on top of that they are useless in a jacuzzi :lol: :lol:

At least you can dry a book out or if your book gets nicked buy another copy and not have lost your whole collection.


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

BondandBigM said:


> Loads of people round the pool with these electronic "books", a couple of problems though. I never glanced at one that was any good in the bright sunlight, secondly what do you do with it when you go for a dive in the pool and on top of that they are useless in a jacuzzi :lol: :lol:
> 
> At least you can dry a book out or if your book gets nicked buy another copy and not have lost your whole collection.


E-ink displays are better in sunlight than in artificial light. And as for the jacuzzi or pool, I simply put mine in a waterproof pouch. They are readily available.


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

BondandBigM said:


> Loads of people round the pool with these electronic "books", a couple of problems though. I never glanced at one that was any good in the bright sunlight, secondly what do you do with it when you go for a dive in the pool and on top of that they are useless in a jacuzzi :lol: :lol:
> 
> At least you can dry a book out or if your book gets nicked buy another copy and not have lost your whole collection.


Yep, e-ink displays gets easier to read the brighter the sunlight, just like a real paper and ink page!

If your book gets nicked then all your amazon purchases are still available to you in your account ( I think ) and your other non Amazon sourced books should be on a disc and hard drive backed up... ( as mine are ) :hypocrite:


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

jasonm said:


> If your book gets nicked then all your amazon purchases are still available to you in your account ( I think ) and your other non Amazon sourced books should be on a disc and hard drive backed up... ( as mine are ) :hypocrite:


My books are in my my bookshelves, no need to back up anything and I can't see anybody (without a low loader) nicking 'em. They don't need batteries either.:hypocrite:

How resilient are they? Thinking about how many times I drop my phone................. Are the screens scratch proof and do the cases have an IP rating?


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

MarkF said:


> Nah, been looking at info this week..............I am only interested (as I've said before) in weight saving on holidays and cycle trips, for that I am sure that they are superb. But, most nights I see guys using Ereaders on the train, out of their briefcases, what's the advantage? How many books can you read before the Leeds train gets to Skipton half an hour later?


So do you still use a CD walkman, as you have all you music you need for that 1/2 hour journey? Didn't think so

I travel too much for work and my bag always has three paperbacks in. Too often these are bought at the airport as i have not been organised enough so i pay top price for them. Then there is the nightmare of being delayed, often overnight, having finished reading everything you have bought with you. That has happened to me twice, and it is very frustrating. I'm getting a Kindle (despite liking to read in the bath and dreading dropping it in - i've never dropped a book in, but still the thought haunts me)


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

scottswatches said:


> ......despite liking to read in the bath and dreading dropping it in - i've never dropped a book in, but still the thought haunts me


Not a problem. I just use one of THESE


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

scottswatches said:


> MarkF said:
> 
> 
> > Nah, been looking at info this week..............I am only interested (as I've said before) in weight saving on holidays and cycle trips, for that I am sure that they are superb. But, most nights I see guys using Ereaders on the train, out of their briefcases, what's the advantage? How many books can you read before the Leeds train gets to Skipton half an hour later?
> ...


Actually, it was only this year that I bought my first MP3 player from over at TZ. Think, I've used it once, until then, yes, I've used a CD player, and my life didn't appear to have any insurmountable difficulties.







Just like the Ereader, a music player for me, would only be useful for holidays just like my casette player, CD player and MP3 player and only when download prices make sense to me, which they will, in time..................

Being delayed is not a "nightmare" for me, but one of lifes pleasures, giving me an excuse for quality bar time.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

feenix said:


> scottswatches said:
> 
> 
> > ......despite liking to read in the bath and dreading dropping it in - i've never dropped a book in, but still the thought haunts me
> ...


Â£14.99! :shocking: so, does the Kindle have an IP rating? Somebody look at their caseback and put my mind at rest.


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

MarkF said:


> My books are in my my bookshelves, no need to back up anything and I can't see anybody (without a low loader) nicking 'em. They don't need batteries either.:hypocrite:


Hypothetically speaking you have a disastrous house fire & all your books get destroyed - have you made a list, or committed to memory, all the books you've got on your shelves so that you can replace them all?

If my Kindle stops working for whatever reason (gets destroyed in the above fire for example) then at least I know that I can get new copies of the books I've already bought from Amazon - I'll make sure I have backups/copies of any books I get via other means.

Nice to know there are waterproof cases for them as I also like reading in the bath - something my wife can't understand


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

pauluspaolo said:


> MarkF said:
> 
> 
> > My books are in my my bookshelves, no need to back up anything and I can't see anybody (without a low loader) nicking 'em. They don't need batteries either.:hypocrite:
> ...


You will have to try better than that Paul, I should buy an Ereader (that I don't appear to need) because my house might burn down?  Then I'll need some other gadget (in case of disaster) to back up the cats and cycles, and what about my watches? Yikes!!!

I'll get one,when, the download prices make sense to me, it has better shock resistance and a decent IP rating. The latter, assuming most folk think they are a great idea for holidays, is a serious oversight IMO. Googling "water" and "Kindle" is proof enough.


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## handlehall (Aug 7, 2009)

I've heard there are some power looms near Halifax that need smashing up


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

handlehall said:


> I've heard there are some power looms near Halifax that need smashing up


Really? Me and Ned will on our way then.


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## sparky the cat (Jan 28, 2009)

Interesting discussion - on what I thought would be amundane topic.

I always suspected that there were 'movers and shakers' on this forum and it was read in high places, so much so that the BBC no less has joined in the discussion

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01871m9

Reading the paper today - noticded that Kobo has been reduced at WH Smiths - got to stop researching this e-book reader thing or I'll never get to buy one.


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

order placed on amazon for the basic wifi version today, then across to the bay for a cover (mainly so I can hold it like a book) and 10,000 ebooks on one dvd. Total cost including postage is Â£100.90.

Granted I might be lucky to get 5 books of the 10,000 that I might want to read!

Two things swung it for me - one is a family holiday coming up in May. I can carry hundreds of childrens books to keep them entertained on the ferry. The second one is that if I don't like it I can sell it on ebay for very little loss.

unfortunately I bought my cover before I saw these covers

now they are cool!


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

after I bought the kindle, this was on tv last night

books - the last chapter?

Should work for UK members


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Mark F is taking a bit of a beating here :lol: :lol:

One thing that nobody has touched on is the some people actually like to go to the library. Big M goes three or four times most weeks. It has a nice coffee shop, she meets a few people, there is a big supervised kids play area if she takes the grand kids, a couple of girls who help the oldies with the tinternet. Interaction with real people, recommendations for new books and so on. The same might also be said about book shops as she does buy some as well. So her enjoyment from books is more than just reading them.

You don't get that with an e reader.


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## johnboy24 (Feb 24, 2008)

Apologies if this has been said before (I haven't the time to read the whole thread) you can download the "Kindle" software onto multiple devices, pc/laptop/android phones/tablets (not sure about apple products) and carry your books everywhere the device goes without having the "Kindle" on you.This enables more than one person to read the books stored on the "Kindle".


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## handlehall (Aug 7, 2009)

BondandBigM said:


> Mark F is taking a bit of a beating here :lol: :lol:
> 
> One thing that nobody has touched on is the some people actually like to go to the library. Big M goes three or four times most weeks. It has a nice coffee shop, she meets a few people, there is a big supervised kids play area if she takes the grand kids, a couple of girls who help the oldies with the tinternet. Interaction with real people, recommendations for new books and so on. The same might also be said about book shops as she does buy some as well. So her enjoyment from books is more than just reading them.
> 
> You don't get that with an e reader.


If it's a decent library they will probably do e-book loans as well :tongue2:

Never had you down as one of general Ludd's men Bond


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

I am not beaten! :furious:

They break when dropped and cease to function when wet, wake me up when I can get a properly designed one.

I was in Waterstones today getting a book than Carolyn wants for Christmas, I enjoyed it, fannying about, as you do. I do not think that she would be best pleased with a download for Christmas.

Another thing, my Nokia E71 died when I dropped it in the bath and I broke my sons Archos tablet by spilling coffee on it (No, they don't do repairs, they just sell them ) I am now focussed on products with a decent IP rating.


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## DMP (Jun 6, 2008)

johnboy24 said:


> Apologies if this has been said before (I haven't the time to read the whole thread) you can download the "Kindle" software onto multiple devices, pc/laptop/android phones/tablets (not sure about apple products) and carry your books everywhere the device goes without having the "Kindle" on you.This enables more than one person to read the books stored on the "Kindle".


There is a Kindle app for both the iPhone & iPad, both of which keep track of where you're up to so you can (as I do) switch from Kindle to iPad to iPhone reading as required. You can't access the Kindle store through these apps due to Apple's policy on these things however, but as both IOS devices easily access the 'net, the alternative method of purchasing books directly through the Amazon website is simple enough.


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

I`m with you Mark, I like my books & have a hard enough time with the computer,phones & other modern, supposedly `user friendly` [email protected] without getting a Kindle (or whatever) :taz:


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## DMP (Jun 6, 2008)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> I`m with you Mark, I like my books & have a hard enough time with the computer,phones & other modern, supposedly `user friendly` [email protected] without getting a Kindle (or whatever) :taz:


Just a case of different strokes for different folks, Mac. I love how modern technology puts the world in my hand (and allows me to read 2 or 3 books simultaneously as is often my wont), but I also understand that many shake their heads and wonder why we "need" all these ubiquitous and pesky gadgets! :cheers:


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## JWL940 (Jun 11, 2010)

Ah Waterstones. A few years ago around this time Mrs L and myself were in our local Waterstones browsing our individual sections as one does when, bored, I decided it was time to move on. Spotting Mrs L with her back to me and head buried in some novel or other I grabbed a handful of backside and said, 'Come on love, let's go;' a complete stranger spun around in mouth open shock! At that point I lost all ability to speak English, spluttered a splutter or 2 and spotted Mrs L looking at me from 5 yards away with the look that had been honed from 30 years of marriage. Spluttering a splutter or 2 of apology I almost ran from that shop and it took another quarter of an hour or so until I could construct a half intelligible sentence. Lost for words - I was that day and you can't get an experience like that with a Kindle.


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## LJD (Sep 18, 2011)

IainC said:


> I've had many many gadgets over the years and - *without doubt* - the Kindle is the best one of the lot. The screen is superb - read it anywhere. Bright sunshine? - the screen just looks better. Battery life? - you can take it on a three week holiday and never worry about charging it.
> 
> IMO however, the thing that puts it head and shoulders above the competition is the integration with the Amazon store. In less than 30 seconds you can go from wanting a book to reading it. No messing around with cables and computer connections. I've used Calibre, which is a great piece of software, but when you're sitting on the beach and need the next book in the trilogy you're reading, you don't even need to get out of your deckchair. Also IMO it's worth paying the extra to get the inbuilt 3G - get your books anywhere with no ongoing 3G bills to pay.
> 
> ...


Great Post that cover just about everything i need to know ! Wife wants one as she reads going to work. I am too "old skool" and love the real "feel" of a book. BUt i see the kindle as a great product


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## Deco (Feb 15, 2011)

Well my 710 has my new Kindle wrapped up under the tree for Christmas. I'm looking forward to using it once I get my paws on it. I've been reading books on the Kindle App on my phone for a year or so & found it very handy.

On second hand books: my mother never let us use them when we were children. "Germs" she used to say. "People who don't wash their hands after the toilet might have used them".

That's Mum's for you - great aren't they.


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

My kindle just arrived, and within minutes and without refereing to the instruction manual I have worked it all out, downloaded 8 free books from amazon and have been very impressed.

Now all i need to do is find the time to read them!


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

scottswatches said:


> My kindle just arrived, and within minutes and without refereing to the instruction manual I have worked it all out, downloaded 8 free books from amazon and have been very impressed.
> 
> Now all i need to do is find the time to read them!


I was looking through my own collections of media just the other night. I have so many ebooks, audiobooks, radio plays, movies and TV programs that I need to live for at least anther 100 years to fit them all in.


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## chris.ph (Dec 29, 2011)

you can buy discs on ebay of thousands of books (ive got 49000 on my laptop)for a couple of quid and then convert with the foresaid calibre program which is free to download, then its just a matter of dragging and dropping the books to your kindle. i bought a case for my kndle to make it seem more book like, and yes i know that sort of defearts the object but my mrs said if she sees another paper book enter the house she will have a large bonfire in the garden :dontgetit:


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## back to the top (Sep 21, 2011)

I have a kindle but still buy books , out of habit I guess


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

back to the top said:


> I have a kindle but still buy books , out of habit I guess


I still buy books. Particularly for reference. Size format is still an issue with ereaders imho. But Ereaders are pretty well unbeatable for novels.


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## shoestring (Jan 14, 2012)

the wife got one from santa claus she said its the best thing since sliced bread


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## chris.ph (Dec 29, 2011)

tell her to check out the free books they are giving away on amazon, all different types of genres, i got ten romance books yesterday for my aged mothers kindle, there is also a fair selection of free sci/fi fantasy books on there as well which ive downloaded quite a few to my own kindle


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## Deco (Feb 15, 2011)

Deco said:


> Well my 710 has my new Kindle wrapped up under the tree for Christmas. I'm looking forward to using it once I get my paws on it. I've been reading books on the Kindle App on my phone for a year or so & found it very handy.
> 
> On second hand books: my mother never let us use them when we were children. "Germs" she used to say. "People who don't wash their hands after the toilet might have used them".
> 
> That's Mum's for you - great aren't they.


Well, a month into the new year & I have already read more books than I did all last year.

The Kindle is everything that I thought it would be.

It's also a hit with my six year old - I loaded a Winnie the Pooh book on to it for her bedtime story when we were going away on a trip - she ended up reading the entire book herself on it.

Dec


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

Why the battlefield?

It isn't a question of either or.

EReaders simply enhance the consumers choice.

I have hardbacks, paperbacks, magazines & newspapers

...and now I have an ereader!


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Hmmm................ I was wrong about Kindles, if mine was waterproof then I'd struggle to grumble............


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: unk:

Mark, PM me your address......


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

MarkF said:


> Hmmm................ I was wrong about Kindles, if mine was waterproof then I'd struggle to grumble............


I use one of THESE Mark. Ideal for reading in the bath. At least they are if you have buttons on your kindle. I've got the Sony PRS-T1, which has buttons.


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## chris.ph (Dec 29, 2011)

just found out that whsmith are giving away loads of ebooks for their kobo ereader but they are easily changed to kindle format using calibre which is an open source conversion program


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

chris.ph said:


> just found out that whsmith are giving away loads of ebooks for their kobo ereader but they are easily changed to kindle format using calibre which is an open source conversion program


Not that easily converted if they have DRM. You will have to Google for 'apprentice Alf' first and get the Calibre Plug-ins.


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## blackandgolduk (Apr 25, 2005)

Got a Kindle from the other half for birthday. Loved it. Came in from work, placed on coffee table. Poured glass of wine (large). Knocked wine over, drenched Kindle. Bugger. Dried Kindle out. Started up. No problems...

Not as fragile as first thought...

Happy days!


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## pugster (Nov 22, 2004)

its been sadi befor , but remember you are not as tied as you think with the kindle , download calibre and learn to use it (multi format conversion and libary) ,if you use torrents remember you can search for books aswell (or collections or books)


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Just seen that the Kindle 'Touch' has been released over here...Â£109 from @[email protected] This is the one I have been waiting for. Comes with a touch screen and you swipe the screen with a finger to turn pages...more like a real book.


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## colgy (Feb 20, 2012)

Roger the Dodger said:


> Just seen that the Kindle 'Touch' has been released over here...Â£109 from @[email protected] This is the one I have been waiting for. Comes with a touch screen and you swipe the screen with a finger to turn pages...more like a real book.


Think the screen might 'smudge' with fingerprints as the screen looks quite matt - standard kindle does the job so well!


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## sparky the cat (Jan 28, 2009)

I thought I would give an update.

Well I got Kim a new Kindle. It wasn't the upgrade I expected to get but it seems that the colour version may take years to get into the UK. So I took the plunge. Quite impressive and she is pleased, so I am as well.

It would seem that the kindle knows no age boundaries. She was on the phone to her Mum on Saturday and the kindle crept into the conversation, by her 80 year old Mum. Seems Kim' s aunt and uncle have both just got a Kindle and now Kim's Mum wants one. Eleanor is okay with technology of sorts - manages to text Kim a lot and uses text speak in the messages. Don't think she will get the hang of a computer though and it'll be up to me to sort out books for her - should be fun.

Although Kim has a Kindle I was impressed for me by the Kobo I saw in WHSmiths, all colour etc. Anyone have any experience of these. I've been looking at consumer reviews on e-readers and they are a bit like Mac and PC - people fall into one of the camps and there is no shifting them which is best!

Thanks for the advice

George


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

Although the Kindle is a great piece of kit it's always annoyed me that they treat the UK (and the EU) as poor relations. We are always late on the release priority.

Sony manage to release world wide, and that is the only reason that I tend to have a Sony. It does everything that the Kindle Touch does, but was released 'world-wide' months ago.

Add to that the twin benefits of not allowing Amazon a complete monopoly of the Ebook scene and the fact that the Sony and Kobo readers both make use of the EPUB standard (the standard used by just about everyone except Amazon) and I'll be using them for a while.

Most libraries and shops, in the UK at least, sell their ebooks in the EPUB standard, which won't run on Kindle. There are work-arounds, and if anyone needs help I'd be happy to point them in the right direction, but the point is that Amazon are trying to control the whole book industry. From publishing to supply. And to add insult to injury their making the UK wait until they have sorted out the US consumer.


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## sparky the cat (Jan 28, 2009)

feenix said:


> Although the Kindle is a great piece of kit it's always annoyed me that they treat the UK (and the EU) as poor relations. We are always late on the release priority.
> 
> Sony manage to release world wide, and that is the only reason that I tend to have a Sony. It does everything that the Kindle Touch does, but was released 'world-wide' months ago.
> 
> ...


Maybe this US investigation into price fixing will sort the pricing structure. But as this link http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/apr/13/apple-ebook-price-fixing-terrifying sugests that may not be a good thing.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Is it possible to send emails or surf the net with a Kindle? I'm sure my brother in law joined RLT via his Kindle. I only ask because I was reading this review of the new Touch, and it states near the bottom that you can't do emails etc. Anyone know any different?


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

I believe the software was changed to stop 'open' web access Roger, but as I don't have one myself, I stand to be corrected.


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## JTW (Jun 14, 2007)

The old, keyboard 3G model still has basic browsing capabilities so can be used for webmail etc, As feenix says the new ones have "lost" that capability, other than the Amazon store and, I think, Wikipedia.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

So...........................my Kindle hasn't come out of the drawer since my August holiday, my daughter never ever uses hers and I now have an unwanted Kindle Fire too. After a very brief spell where I thought that they were uselful, my original gut feeling was confirmed, they are useless...........apart from holidays.

Good article in The Times yesterday, printed books sales rose for the first time since 2006, e-reader sales collapsed. I am thinking digital picture frames...............


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## blackandgolduk (Apr 25, 2005)

After being stuck in the Old Bailey for eight hours today, I can confirm that they are invaluable. They sit inside body armour far better than a book ever would!


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## Julian Latham (Jul 25, 2005)

Mark,

Your mailbox is full.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Space now..........


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## blemmy (Jan 18, 2013)

Hi Everyone,

IMHO the Kindle is simply the number one out there and the tie in to Amazon is a plus not a minus.Books from Â£0.99p upwards download almost instantaneously without messing about with interim hardware.

Easy to read in bright light - no glare - print size can be increased to suit you and the battery lasts weeks without needing a re-charge even though I leave the Amazon WiFi connected permanently - I've got the 3GWiFi edition which even gives me instantaneous direct access to the Amazon Book Store and the web as a whole, free of charge to me, all at Amazon's cost and it achieves connectivity just about anywhere!! When I think about the hassle I used to have connecting to a WiFi source with my laptop when away from home - even with dongles - that alone makes my Kindle a Godsend!

IMHO it's a 'no brainer' - get the Kindle (pay the bit extra for the built in WiFi) and enjoy!! :yes:

Best regards

Paul


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

I loved my Kindle, but recently have been just using the Kindle App on my iPad, saves carrying 2 devices around... I will be taking it on holiday where it will be better in the sun.....


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