# Am I the only one moving away from Seiko?



## Barryboy (Mar 21, 2006)

Over the years I have had dozens (literally) of Seikos and always had five or six kept in the watch box. It's a brand that has always been interesting, reliable and affordable. The VW of the watch world, if you like.

Unfortunately their quality control is not what it was and over the last five years or so the prices have risen quite dramatically and it's now quite common to see Seiko divers well over a grand - and I'm not talking Grand Seiko here either!

This drive to push the brand upmarket has persuaded me to look elsewhere for my 'flip fix' and explore other marques - there are some very interesting micro brands that have appeared at reasonable prices that have started to attract my attention and I might well be changing the style of the collection over the forthcoming months.


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## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

I can't imagine so. But I was never with them. Lifelong firm Seiko hater here. In fact, I think I should change my screen name to that. Lol


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## AVO (Nov 18, 2012)

JayDeep said:


> I can't imagine so. But I was never with them. Lifelong firm Seiko hater here. In fact, I think I should change my screen name to that. Lol


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## tick-tock-tittle-tattle (Aug 4, 2018)

Same here, but it's not an attack on Seiko, I've just fallen out of love with them...(a little)

The spanner in the works for Seiko was buying my first Orient and realising just how good they are. Is Orient the new Seiko?

Possibly...


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

@Barryboy Seiko were certainly my watch of choice for a "flip-fix" - seldom buy one now, not really been a conscious decision, price certainly a factor, you could buy vintage chronographs for seven shillings and sixpence on the forum or from RLT watches not that long ago, well nearly 20 years ago :laughing2dw:


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## SolaVeritate (Mar 21, 2021)

It's like poking your finger into a satisfying hole. Sadly, it gets boring after a while.

Note.. I take no responsibility for anyone else's emotional input over my descriptive analysis. These things are out of my control and only show other peoples reaction to my general oblique descriptive reaction to a satisfaction that gets boring.

Here is the rope to let others hang :whistling:


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## Perlative Cernometer (Jan 1, 2018)

JayDeep said:


> I can't imagine so. But I was never with them. Lifelong firm Seiko hater here. In fact, I think I should change my screen name to that. Lol


 Bit specific - you hate all sorts of stuff. :tongue:


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## Nick67+1 (Jan 1, 2020)

I have a bit of a love/hate thing going on with them.

I've got a Recraft, a Presage Cocktail and a Flightmaster all of which I love. I'm looking at another Presage.

I'm not a big fan the Diver look they have. I have a Seiko 5 Sports which has never really done it for me (might try one final strap change) and a SNK805 which is the only watch I currently own with a obvious scratch on the crystal (put me off Hardlex right there).

I've also found Orient are much better value with the albeit limited range available.


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## Roxyben (May 19, 2020)

I definitely understand the sentiment put forth by the original post. I pretty much agree on all points but the recent dip in quality control does not seemed to have affected there reputation too bad. People still buy there watches and they do still release some great watches. Even a few run ins personally with there most flaky quality control seems not to put me off even. If anything I know now what to look for. I still have a very soft spot for the brand. I think non enthusiasts just wont even notice the defects that people that frequent forums and involved with watches on a much deeper level would.

Seiko I think are pretty much unsinkable at this point and will be with us for a very long time despite losing a few hardcore fans due to there recent dip in quality.

Even the Orient comparisons for me don't hold much water, as I have had a Orient that I have had a lot of problems with. More so than any of my Seikos. But there is a lot of competition from Orient and the slew of microbands that have popped up over the last 5 years offering a lot of watch for very little.


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## AVO (Nov 18, 2012)

Just out of interest, there are two specific Seiko threads in this sub forum. Shouldn't they actually be in the Japanese Watches sub forum?

Or am I being a bit naughty here?


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

It was a Seiko 6105 that started me off watch collecting, unfortunately they don't make much that appeals to me at the moment. I have 4 Seiko's - a modified 6309 diver (keeper), a Seiko Spirit (keeper) & two BFK's, seeing as my wife bought them for me they too are probably keepers. I'm not anti-Seiko but until they release something that I just can't live without I'm not really interested in getting another.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

AVO said:


> Just out of interest, there are two specific Seiko threads in this sub forum. Shouldn't they actually be in the Japanese Watches sub forum?
> 
> Or am I being a bit naughty here?


 We move them after a few days or when the thread quieten down


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Perlative Cernometer said:


> Bit specific - you hate all sorts of stuff. :tongue:


 Bet you Shinji Hattori is worried. :laughing2dw:

I've got a couple of the latest generation 5's (not divers) and for the money I can't fault them.


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## tick-tock-tittle-tattle (Aug 4, 2018)

Roxyben said:


> Even the Orient comparisons for me don't hold much water, as I have had a Orient that I have had a lot of problems with. More so than any of my Seikos. But there is a lot of competition from Orient and the slew of microbands that have popped up over the last 5 years offering a lot of watch for very little.


 I see what you mean, I've only bought one Orient which only runs two seconds per day slow and I was blown away by the accuracy for the money paid. I haven't bought enough to make a quality judgment with the brand.

I have not bought from a micro brand yet, I have never gone as far as the 'buy now' final step, but I've looked at plenty. I just don't think micro brands are for me for some reason that I can't put my finger on... not watch snobbery as I proud to say I own some utterly rubbish watches.

My wife calls me *The King of Broken Watches* for good reason.

I prefer to call myself *The King of Wishful Tinkering*.


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## Roxyben (May 19, 2020)

tick-tock-tittle-tattle said:


> I see what you mean, I've only bought one Orient which only runs two seconds per day slow and I was blown away by the accuracy for the money paid. I haven't bought enough to make a quality judgment with the brand


 Well I have only had two, the one I'm having problems with and another which I had no issues with whatsoever. But even so the bad orient has left a bit of a bad taste with me, but I will acknowledge for the majority of there watches they offer fantastic value and top value.



tick-tock-tittle-tattle said:


> I have not bought from a micro brand yet, I have never gone as far as the 'buy now' final step, but I've looked at plenty. I just don't think micro brands are for me for some reason that I can't put my finger on... not watch snobbery as I proud to say I own some utterly rubbish watches.


 I'm of the same thinking as yourself. They get brought up all the time but they do nothing for me at all. Not ruling one out in the future but micros just don't do anything for me. The ones I have seen anyway. Would 100% rather have a Seiko anyday.


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## Adomnán (Dec 14, 2019)

I like the Cocktail models and Alpinists (poor mans Explorer) but prices seem to be going a bit crazy at the moment and I'm not keen on the current track of ever increasing size.


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## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

Perlative Cernometer said:


> Bit specific - you hate all sorts of stuff. :tongue:


 Actually, a bit unspecified, because I hate so much about Seiko that I'm oversimplifying my hatred of them.


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## Sulie (Jul 14, 2015)

Yes and no .. I have a mix and I mean a mix.. too many different designs imho to ignore


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## yokel (Jul 30, 2017)

When I was in my twenties, I really quite liked them (but that might have been a year or two ago).


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

yokel said:


> When I was in my twenties, I really quite liked them (but that might have been a *century *or two ago).


 :wheelchair:


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## andyclient (Aug 1, 2009)

I have a few Seikos and think they're great workhorses but they are all quite early models so don't know what the current quality is like , don't like the kinetics though worked on a few but find them a pain in the you know what


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## chas g (Nov 20, 2016)

Took my 11 month old seiko back after it kept stopping and jammed up. They said I must have dropped it (I don't recall ever having dropped it) and £120 to fit a new crown stem and reposition the spring. Having told them to bin it, I am now getting calls saying they can't bin it and I have to collect it which is real nuisance. After nearly 50 years of buying Seiko I don't think I will buy another one.


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## Jonesinamillion (Feb 21, 2016)

Had one, a 007 (jap), it was "ok".

Never seen what all the fuss is about tbh.

Love what grand seiko do but I'd always be thinking "is it special enough" for the money?


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## Bow (Jan 23, 2021)

chas g said:


> Took my 11 month old seiko back after it kept stopping and jammed up. They said I must have dropped it (I don't recall ever having dropped it) and £120 to fit a new crown stem and reposition the spring. Having told them to bin it, I am now getting calls saying they can't bin it and I have to collect it which is real nuisance. After nearly 50 years of buying Seiko I don't think I will buy another one.


 I'd revert to the school yard staple of "make me"!


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

It's interesting hearing members praising Orient over Seiko, when Orient is 100% owned by Seiko.


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## Bricey (Apr 7, 2021)

chas g said:


> Took my 11 month old seiko back after it kept stopping and jammed up. They said I must have dropped it (I don't recall ever having dropped it) and £120 to fit a new crown stem and reposition the spring. Having told them to bin it, I am now getting calls saying they can't bin it and I have to collect it which is real nuisance. After nearly 50 years of buying Seiko I don't think I will buy another one.


 Go and pick it up, when they hand it to you throw it on the floor and stamp on it, then walk out.


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## chas g (Nov 20, 2016)

Bricey said:


> Go and pick it up, when they hand it to you throw it on the floor and stamp on it, then walk out.


 I might feel like doing that but I always try to be polite.


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## Bricey (Apr 7, 2021)

chas g said:


> I might feel like doing that but I always try to be polite.


 So smile whilst stomping


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## Sulie (Jul 14, 2015)

This ones for Rob :biggrin:


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## Barryboy (Mar 21, 2006)

Jonesinamillion said:


> Love what grand seiko do but I'd always be thinking "is it special enough" for the money?


 I have always thought that even if I won the lottery I wouldn't buy a Grand Seiko. I have no doubt that they are excellent quality watches but somehow the thought of spending multiple thousands on a Seiko doesn't gel with me. Watch snob? Moi?? Mais non, mon brave. :watch:


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## Jubpi (Sep 6, 2021)

I'm a real fan of Seiko watches, admitting that during last years they have been focused on launching the same watches with dial and bezel variations, I really love some of them.

Currently I'm a proud owner of a brown bullhead of 1972, a discontinued SKX009 an old version of black dial Sumo, A Japanese Emerald Samurai.... and in love with turtle shape (one of the most comfortable ones for me)

Now I'm diving into Zimbe special editions and really excited about them.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Most here will know that I've had lots of Seikos over the years, some quite rare models and some not quite so. I've never had any problems with them, even the 7T32s with their plastic gears, and have never had a dodgy bracelet, which so many complain about and so still have a soft spot for the brand. However, I will agree that of late, their offerings are rather 'samey' and expensive for what they are. My love affair with the brand started with the Seiko Pepsi my parents gave me for my 21st in 1975, and there have been loads since. The ones I've kept now are some of the more scarce models. I can post pics of them if required.


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## Beesadon (Jan 9, 2020)

Roger the Dodger said:


> Most here will know that I've had lots of Seikos over the years, some quite rare models and some not quite so. I've never had any problems with them, even the 7T32s with their plastic gears, and have never had a dodgy bracelet, which so many complain about and so still have a soft spot for the brand. However, I will agree that of late, their offerings are rather 'samey' and expensive for what they are. My love affair with the brand started with the Seiko Pepsi my parents gave me for my 21st in 1975, and there have been loads since. The ones I've kept now are some of the more scarce models. I can post pics of them if required.


 Would love to see them please

Don


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Beesadon said:


> Would love to see them please
> 
> Don


 Ok, Don, so these first few are ones that have now been moved on.
Seiko SKX 009. This was the first new watch that I bought after joining here 12 years ago.










Various Sea Urchins, including the scarce blue and orange versions...









...and the black one from above modded with an LV bezel insert specially made for the Urchin.










The original Orange Monster.










Seiko Baby Tuna. (I didn't like the large arrow hour hand)










Seiko LE 'Blue Lagoon' Samurai ( again, didn't like the arrow hour hand)










Seiko 6M23-6000, the watch with the 'dancing hands'.










Several rare 7T32s, the first a Giugiaro designed item, complete with its integrated blue sharkskin strap.










A rather colourful 7T32...never seen another like it.










A 7T32 version of 'The Great Blue'...this one had an iridescent and sparkly dial rather like an Omega Constellation Megaquartz.










A more common blue dial 7T32-7F70 (I still have the yellow version)










The orange version of the Seiko 'Sawtooth'...(I still have the blue)










These next ones are the ones I still have (along with the Seiko Pepsi/Pogue, pictured in the previous thread above) and are probably keepers due to their scarceness.

1980 Seiko LCD G757-4010.










The yellow 7T32-7F70.










Seiko SKZ 251 yellow 'Frankenmonster'. These were also available with a blue, black or orange dial...the orange being the rarest.










Seiko 'Caesar', based on the 7T92 movement.










Seiko SRP043K aka 'The Spork'.










and finally, the Seiko blue wave 'Sawtooth'.










If there's one that I'd really like to add, it would be a minty blue bullhead from the 70s...but at the prices they command today, I don't think that will be happening...


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## Beesadon (Jan 9, 2020)

Roger the Dodger said:


> Ok, Don, so these first few are ones that have now been moved on.
> Seiko SKX 009. This was the first new watch that I bought after joining here 12 years ago.
> 
> 
> ...


 Thank you for sharing , there are great looking watches . I do have the urge to buy a nice Seiko , but can't make up my mind on which one to buy

Thanks again

Don


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## Boots (Sep 22, 2018)

Two further different Seikos

SKZ211 Atlas or Landshark

















6138-3002 from 1977


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## antjrice (Mar 13, 2020)

I get where they're going and without thinking about it, have subscribed to their model so I'm one example of this strategy working.

I now only own the SPB143 which is a marvellous watch and I expect my next Seiko purchase to be a Grand Seiko at some point in the future.


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## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

Caller. said:


> It's interesting hearing members praising Orient over Seiko, when Orient is 100% owned by Seiko.


 That's not a point at all. That's like saying it's interesting to hear folk praising Bulova over Citizen or Certina over Rado/Omega/Swatch, etc. Owned by isn't designed by. Owned means nothing.



antjrice said:


> I get where they're going and without thinking about it, have subscribed to their model so I'm one example of this strategy working.
> 
> I now only own the SPB143 which is a marvellous watch and I expect my next Seiko purchase to be a Grand Seiko at some point in the future.


 Where is that exactly? More bland designs with subpar materials and lack of quality control? Destination vacation? Easy street? I'm confused a to any intentional direction other than downhill fast! And I pray the brand falls off the map quickly.


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

JayDeep said:


> That's not a point at all. That's like saying it's interesting to hear folk praising Bulova over Citizen or Certina over Rado/Omega/Swatch, etc. Owned by isn't designed by. Owned means nothing.


 I disagree. Swatch is a large conglomerate of brands that increasingly, especially among the medium level brands, share movements and components. The same with Seiko and Orient. Just look at the day/date windows. Seiko also own Alba, sort of their introductory brand. Seiko clearly import their characteristics into Orient, despite claims to the contrary. Over here, their displays have even moved in line with Seiko's, which used to be a jumble of watches, but are now clearly separated by model i.e. 5 in one cabinet, prospex another and so on. Same with Orient, Orient Star. It's not unusual to see Orient and Seiko, share the same concession's area. Grand Seiko are displayed separately, but usually in the same vicinity.


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## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

Caller. said:


> I disagree. Swatch is a large conglomerate of brands that increasingly, especially among the medium level brands, share movements and components. The same with Seiko and Orient. Just look at the day/date windows. Seiko also own Alba, sort of their introductory brand. Seiko clearly import their characteristics into Orient, despite claims to the contrary. Over here, their displays have even moved in line with Seiko's, which used to be a jumble of watches, but are now clearly separated by model i.e. 5 in one cabinet, prospex another and so on. Same with Orient, Orient Star. It's not unusual to see Orient and Seiko, share the same concession's area. Grand Seiko are displayed separately, but usually in the same vicinity.


 Lol okay buddy, sure. Lol


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

JayDeep said:


> Lol okay buddy, sure. Lol


 Muppet.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

chas g said:


> Having told them to bin it, I am now getting calls saying they can't bin it and I have to collect it which is real nuisance.


 Ignore them, that's more annoying than stamping.on it. :laughing2dw:


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## Rotundus (May 7, 2012)

wow, so much hate - seiko the new rolex LMFAO !


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## Jet Jetski (Feb 10, 2019)

Barryboy said:


> Over the years I have had dozens (literally) of Seikos and always had five or six kept in the watch box. It's a brand that has always been interesting, reliable and affordable. The VW of the watch world, if you like.
> 
> Unfortunately their quality control is not what it was and over the last five years or so the prices have risen quite dramatically and it's now quite common to see Seiko divers well over a grand - and I'm not talking Grand Seiko here either!
> 
> This drive to push the brand upmarket has persuaded me to look elsewhere for my 'flip fix' and explore other marques - there are some very interesting micro brands that have appeared at reasonable prices that have started to attract my attention and I might well be changing the style of the collection over the forthcoming months.


 Since lots of micro-brands use Seiko movements, that's where I look, and some good 3rd party modding components out there including WR sapphire cases, you can get Seiko timekeeping and something a bit different, and often well made.


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## BigSlim (Nov 12, 2017)

Boots said:


> Two further different Seikos
> 
> SKZ211 Atlas or Landshark
> 
> ...


 Love the SKZ211.


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## RTM Boy (Jun 1, 2011)

antjrice said:


> I get where they're going and without thinking about it, have subscribed to their model so I'm one example of this strategy working.
> 
> I now only own the SPB143 which is a marvellous watch and I expect my next Seiko purchase to be a Grand Seiko at some point in the future.


 In the face of steadily falling sales of 'normal' watches globally, particularly below £750 SRP (or equivalent), Seiko has decided it's not going to take on Apple or try to persuade younger people to wear an ordinary watch and so has clearly made a strategic decision to;



Stop making inexpensive entry-level (loss-leading?) watches (ditching quartz, kinetic, etc)


Turn to a special edition product release model


Increase SRPs across the board accordingly to increase margin on lower volumes to maintain overall profitability


Cut production costs, even if perceived QC takes a hit, to maintain profitability


Major on GS going forward, probably because they think it's the only future for the Seiko brand in the medium-to-long term.


I think Seiko knows it doesn't have the brand equity as 'Seiko' to play much above the £1k mark, but GS does and that's where the profits, and hence investment, will be.



Rotundus said:


> wow, so much hate - seiko the new rolex LMFAO !


 It's all getting a bit tetchy.

I don't 'hate' any brand. Personally - and it doesn't get more personal than watches - Seiko leaves me cold. I've owned so many over the last 3 or 4 decades and despite trying I've never bonded with any of them and sold them all. The Law of WIS states that we're supposed to love Seiko as the gateway brand to the hobby, but it just never happened for me. I can't even tell you exactly why. There isn't a single model now I would buy - they just don't do it for me, irrespective of the SRP.

I can see what Seiko is doing strategically and understand why, and why that would upset many people, in a similar way to how the way Rolex behalves upsets many people. At the top end all the influencers, flexers and hype merchants are turning (certain) watches into Positional Goods. At the other end competition from the smartwatch, or no watch at all, is impacting the viability of what was only recently mass market product. But it is what it is. The market has and is changing very rapidly and manufacturers are responding to it each in their own way as they want, and we can't do anything about it.

Unfortunately the hobby is suffering collateral damage as a result. Many of us may end up priced out of it altogether.


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## Rotundus (May 7, 2012)

RTM Boy said:


> I
> 
> I don't 'hate' any brand. Personally - and it doesn't get more personal than watches - Seiko leaves me cold. I've owned so many over the last 3 or 4 decades and despite trying I've never bonded with any of them and sold them all. The Law of WIS states that we're supposed to love Seiko as the gateway brand to the hobby, but it just never happened for me. I can't even tell you exactly why. There isn't a single model now I would buy - they just don't do it for me, irrespective of the SRP.
> 
> I can see what Seiko is doing strategically and understand why, and why that would upset many people, in a similar way to how the way Rolex behalves upsets many people. At the top end all the influencers, flexers and hype merchants are turning (certain) watches into Positional Goods. At the other end competition from the smartwatch, or no watch at all, is impacting the viability of what was only recently mass market product. But it is what it is. The market has and is changing very rapidly and manufacturers are responding to it each in their own way as they want, and we can't do anything about it. Unfortunately the hobby is suffering collateral damage as a result. Many of us may end up priced out of it altogether.


 i get this, i really do. i am ok with seiko but have had many and flipped them and moved on. also a bit bored with dive watches and want to move on.

used GS is the way forward for me probably ...


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## RTM Boy (Jun 1, 2011)

Rotundus said:


> also a bit bored with dive watches and want to move on.


 Funny you should say that, I feel the same.

As well as Seiko, it seems every microbrand under the sun is releasing nothing but dive watches. Perhaps it's their ubiquity that breeds my increasing disinterest?


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## Roarry (Nov 28, 2019)

I started my downhill slide with Timex ay age 12. I moved to Seiko about 8 years later. Over the years I have purchased roughly 13 Seikos. None of them GS.

It became too hit & miss with the quality that 4 years ago, I just gave up. Too many SE pieces along with lack of imagination has turned me away. I'll never buy another.


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## sh0wtime (Oct 13, 2021)

hi guys, new member here.
first post as well..
i was always a Seiko guy, 80's, 90's stopped wearing watches in the 2000's but started again early last year with a SUN 065P1, i really liked the depth of the dial & some of the other details.

after a short while i decided there were elements that i wasn't really that fond of so started looking for another Seiko that would appease my minor gripes.
this is when i started reading about all the misalignment issues etc & started looking elsewhere.
i still kinda like the idea of another Seiko but i've bought 6 other watches this year all from other brands...

there just doesn't really seem to be anything i want enough to buy..


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## mjcairney (Aug 4, 2021)

I used to be a big Seiko fan but after two KInetics and one Solar failed and the one year guarantee had just expired, I decided to look elsewhere. I was amazed to find that Citizen offered a 5-year guarantee with an extra one year on registration I decided to give them a try and have become a huge fan, especially of their models which pick up a time signal and therefore are superb timekeepers.


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## Chabsy (Nov 18, 2010)

New Seikos are mainly re-issues still like the older divers


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## Peddler (Jul 13, 2006)

I've owned the Black and Orange Monster, Ti Samurai, Quartz Chrono Pilot, Spirit, Sportura and a really nice vintage Turtle. I still like Seiko but I've recently purchased the Steeldive Tuna, Willard and Sub. In my opinion, the quality is easily as good as Seiko but at a fraction of the price. In some ways they even improve on the original - sapphire crystal, ceramic bezel, hacking movement. I accept that they're dangerously close to bring replicas but there are some differences in design which allow them to be classed as homages in my opinion.

Personally I would highly recommend them.


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## Nerdy Rishav (Sep 17, 2021)

Well, it seems everyone is moving away from Seiko but I have the 1977 Seiko LCD Calculator Watch.










Photo credits: TedSherlock


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