# Astral Help Please!



## NeilY43

Hi Guys,

Looking for help identifying and dating a watch I've just got hold of.

I've done a bit of digging but not sure if I'm right or not. I found quite a bit on SMITHS/Astral, which looks very similar.

It seems Henry Williamson Ltd. produced clocks (and maybe watches) with the name ASTRAL, they were bought by SMITHS (The English Clock & Watch Co.) in 1934 after going into receivership(according to one source).

I may be barking up the wrong tree, just wondered if anyone else can confirm, or knows more about it.










It cleaned up nicely and runs well, a few marks on the case, though not sure what strap to put on it. It had a replacement stretch stainless job, which I did't like, I'm thinking brown leather! anyone know what it would have had originally?

Any info greatly appreciated, thanks..









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## mel

It's still a SMITHS, Astral was the name they used as a higher-end brand. Often seen on Gold cased pieces, and a variation as "Astrolon" being the plastic movement SMITHS version of the Tissot calibre. 

You'll find "ASTRAL" on it's own, "SMITHS ASTRAL", Astral with a "crown-ish" symbol above and other variations. I'd guess this is a (possibly) Cheltenham made piece, it looks too early to be from Wales. Part of the Cheltenham plant was made into a crude clean room at one time, with a slight positive air pressure in an attempt to create ideal conditions for assembly of higher end movements. By the time I joined Smiths in the late sort of 60's, ISTR all production was in Wales but with pockets of production for some watch lines scattered round different plants according to available skills in those areas. :yes:

SMITHS was a massive company at the time, over 40 manufacturing sites - including automotive and aero stuff as well of course, and around 25,000 employees. Then I joined and it went down the tubes  :to_become_senile:

My part in SMITHS downfall Part II follows - - - :rofl2:


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## NeilY43

Thanks Mel,

Very Informative, I'll do some more digging, looking at Smiths, see if I can match it anywhere.


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## Guest

It seems that 'Astral'' was one of the model names [Like Deluxe,Empire,Imperial Etc]used by Smiths over the years.What you have here is a Circa 1940's Smiths built ''Astral'' signed watch,carrying an unmistakable 15 Jewel Smiths movement.


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## mel

Tricky Alex, I'm not 100% sure if it's as early as the 40's, although the style certainly is that! The movement looks excellent if it is indeed 1940's, I'd have leaned towards 1950, however I will, as always, bow to any superior knowledge :notworthy:

Whatever, it's a bluddy nice example of the marque in "early" mode :yes:









Back to the original posting, I'd have it on a nice black leather, silver buckle, white stitching optional - that would look nice IMO, (which is never humble as you all know :lol: )


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## NeilY43

Thanks Guys,

Hadn't realised it was quite so early.

Can anything be gained forn the number C325909 on the movement?

Serial or model number?, I guess with all records on paper back then its difficult to find anything more.


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## Chascomm

mel said:


> Tricky Alex, I'm not 100% sure if it's as early as the 40's, although the style certainly is that! The movement looks excellent if it is indeed 1940's, I'd have leaned towards 1950, however I will, as always, bow to any superior knowledge :notworthy:


Based on what I can pick out of Watches 1850-1980 by Max Cutmore, watches of this type were in production in Cheltenham by 1947, and a 15 jewel version was still being made in 1956. I don't know when they were first made with the 'Astral' brand as opposed to 'Smiths Astral'. It's certainly not a Welsh product, having as it does the the high-grade Smiths movement, and the dial signed 'Made in England'.

Mel do you recall if Astral watches were made in Wales in the 1960s? And if so, were they made with local or imported parts?


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## mel

Chas, AFAIK, the clean facility at Cheletenham was eventually moved out to Wales, but *when*, I don't know.









One would assume if this were true, that Astral high end pieces may have been made in Wales, but then again, by that time, the whole of the factory was pretty well a clean facility, and remained so. :yes:

It is interesting that SMITHS is credited with being one of the very few - if not the *only* - watch and clocks maker worldwide (including the Swiss) who made absolutely everything "in house" except balance wheels and hairspring assembly during their heyday! :notworthy:

And the Government of the day pushed the money it had towards the British Car Industry (whatever happened to them) rather than trying to help SMITHS re-tool and carry on as a major player in the horological marketplace :bad:

OK, SMITHS did themselves no favours, like the Swiss - ignoring Quartz till it was too late to catch up again - I mean watches at 99p with Q accuracy







I well remember filling my tank with petrol and being given a free quartz digi watch - and when the battery died a year later, a new battery was nearly Â£2.00


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## Guest

mel said:


> Tricky Alex, I'm not 100% sure if it's as early as the 40's, although the style certainly is that! The movement looks excellent if it is indeed 1940's, I'd have leaned towards 1950, however I will, as always, bow to any superior knowledge :notworthy:


Good for you Mel  .

It's just that if you notice,you'll see that the movement does'nt carry shockproofing to the balance.This being a feature more associated with the forties and earlier.



NeilY43 said:


> Thanks Guys,
> 
> Can anything be gained forn the number C325909 on the movement?


I'm wondering the same thing.Might be possible to pin down the year of manufacture by this if you're lucky.

Anyone ?.


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## johnbaz

From memory, the designer of your movement came from JlC to Smiths, this movement was much superior than the usual ones fitted to the cheaper Empire watches..

I may be wrong though, maybe Mel will know better??

cheers John


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