# IWC vs Omega



## TDC (Aug 11, 2019)

Good evening chaps, I am new to the forum and hoping for some opinions to help me make up my mind on my most likely next purchase.

I was planning to buy a Rolex Explorer 214270 next, however instead I have (almost certainly) decided it will be either an IWC Pilot Chronograph or an Omega FOIS. Both comparable in price (used) and both paying homage to classic variants, I've always loved the look of the IWC but the FOIS has grown tremendously on me recently. The IWC I see as more modern with more punch, (I'm 34 and think it may suit me slightly more) where the FOIS is a fresh take on a classic with some sharp details. Of course if you all think I'm an idiot to consider these over the Explorer let me know so I can reconsider, but your opinions would be appreciated!

Library pics:



















Thanks in advance,

TC


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Stick to your original plan and buy the explorer. :thumbsup:


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

For me The IWC is a massively overpriced watch for what it is and is possibly not a wise purchase in your situation I would suggest. I was in the hunt for a FOIS last year but did not buy. The hands reflect too much light and as a watch I would have worn often it made telling the time tricky ( kinda the whole point of owning a watch ).

BUT . The Rolex explorer is to me the "Geography Teachers Jacket" of watches .... it smells of heritage but is just soooooo dull.

I would tear Up the copy book and look at other watches including those from Omega, Rolex, Breitling, Zenith, Bremont, Glashutte and others

If you are 34 you don't want to be wandering around with an "old geezers" watch .... There are plenty of jaunty watches out there and loads that have the appeal of the IWC but are much better value.

Also there are loads of Speedmasters that are much better designed than the FOIS and not a stupidly priced... ( its not good value , you are paying £1000 for the word 'space' )

Hope my input helps.... :thumbsup:


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> but﻿ is ju﻿st soooooo﻿ dull. ﻿


 Not when it's on my wrist. :nono:

One thing worth looking into is IWC customer after sales, before making any decisions.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> Not when it's on my wrist. :nono:


 I am sure your students LOVE your lessons on tectonic plate boundaries and glaciation ..... :character0275:


----------



## TDC (Aug 11, 2019)

WRENCH said:


> Stick to your original plan and buy the explorer. :thumbsup:


 Lol the post telling me to spend more came faster than I expected!



JonnyOldBoy said:


> For me The IWC is a massively overpriced watch for what it is and is possibly not a wise purchase in your situation I would suggest. I was in the hunt for a FOIS last year but did not buy. The hands reflect too much light and as a watch I would have worn often it made telling the time tricky ( kinda the whole point of owning a watch ).
> 
> BUT . The Rolex explorer is to me the "Geography Teachers Jacket" of watches .... it smells of heritage but is just soooooo dull.
> 
> ...


 It does, I know what you mean about the rolex compared to some others but it doesn't half look and feel good especially with the newer blue lume.

The IWC has similar aesthetics to a lot of other watches that I guess have cheap copies but I've not yet heard anything bad about the quality.

Regarding the FOIS the hands are one thing I like as they are sharp and crisp compared to the original, it would be nice if the crystal was domed though.

Whilst I like watches to have a certain amount of definition, crispness and some quirks, I'm not into modern or chunky designs which rules out a lot of current watches.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> I am sure your students LOVE your lessons on tectonic plate boundaries and glaciation ..... :character0275:


 **** that, no rule book. :throw:


----------



## it'salivejim (Jan 19, 2013)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> I am sure your students LOVE your lessons on tectonic plate boundaries and glaciation ..... :character0275:


 I've given you a 'laugh' for this post, but you are talking arse again 

I mean, look at it …










I agree about IWC. They are not the brand they once were.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

it'salivejim said:


> I﻿ me﻿an, loo﻿k at it ﻿…﻿


 Exactly. Come on @JonnyOldBoy in your own words, it is fabulously sublime. :laughing2dw:


----------



## TDC (Aug 11, 2019)

I also stumbled across this Blancpain on Ebay that is just dreamy, absolutely perfect in my opinion. I know Blancpain is a very old brand but nothing much more, if the reputation was as good as should be expected I'd consider it but is more than I'd really like to spend at the moment...


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

it'salivejim said:


> I've given you a 'laugh' for this post, but you are talking arse again
> 
> I mean, look at it …


 Its "nice" but just so "try to please all dull" .. Just so yester-year and uninspiring. DateJust all day long for me.... just a bit more presence and life about it ..



TDC said:


> I also stumbled across this Blancpain on Ebay that is just dreamy, absolutely perfect in my opinion. I know Blancpain is a very old brand but nothing much more, if the reputation was as good as should be expected I'd consider it but is more than I'd really like to spend at the moment...


 Blancpain are not the brand they were in my humble opinion.. As regards your comments above on my original comment ... you do seem rather levelled about all this so I am feeling you will gravitate to you chosen watch with success.


----------



## TDC (Aug 11, 2019)

Thanks for the reply, a rhodium dial datejust with jubilee bracelet is on my future wishlist but not going to try to stretch to that any time soon.

I am intrigued though if you feel IWC and Blancpain are not the brands they used to be- do you have any suggestions as to what brands are excelling at the moment that may be in my sort of price range?


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Blancpain﻿﻿ ar﻿e not﻿ the br﻿and ﻿th﻿ey w﻿e﻿﻿re in my ﻿humb﻿le ﻿op﻿in﻿io﻿n﻿


 Really ?


----------



## YouCantHaveTooManyWatches (Nov 28, 2010)

At this price point I'm of the opinion that you wear what you're most comfortable (or proudest) (or happiest) wearing.

The Speedy has unique heritage but is not actually a head turner.

If you're looking for something that has real wrist presence and will turn heads it's neither the Rolex nor the Omega in my opinion.

From my modest collection the watches that non watch enthusiasts always remark on are my Ventura, Black Bay, Monaco, Reverso, Navitimer and Planet Ocean. My Explorer and Speedy and El Primero and Santos and Timewalker are almost never noticed.

It is literally down to what you're trying achieve. Comfort? Notoriety? Personal pleasure? Is that a weird way to look at it?


----------



## TDC (Aug 11, 2019)

YouCantHaveTooManyWatches said:


> At this price point I'm of the opinion that you wear what you're most comfortable (or proudest) (or happiest) wearing.
> 
> The Speedy has unique heritage but is not actually a head turner.
> 
> ...


 Hi!

I'm not after turning heads or being too flashy, I would like something that an enthusiast would notice and appreciate, something with provenance or a story behind it -either the brand or the model. I.e. Blancpain got my attention as the "oldest" watchmaker, the Speedmaster for the obvious Nasa stories etc.

Looks wise- I like interesting but classic designs, not something that will be out of fashion in a couple of years, and I really, really appreciate the small details that others miss (which that Blancpain Villeret appears to be full of). I like a couple of the Hublot and AP designs but the majority are too chunky and modern for me (and way out of my price bracket anyway :laugh: )

Price wise- you will have noticed the watches I've mentioned are in the region of £3k - £5k on this thread. Buying a good used example is my preference as it does not make it any more valuable to me knowing I was the person who bought it new- so long as it is in good condition and has been looked after I would much rather get more for my money than have any satisfaction from being the first owner. I don't ever expect to make money on a watch, but it is nice to lose as little as possible if I should ever sell. Rightly or wrongly I would never consider buying a watch of any substantial value if it were going to become worthless overnight.

Whilst I can't afford to just go out and buy everything I want, I am not planning to buy one watch to suit all occasions, I may well end up with all of these one day it will be a steady process! I know that the IWC for example won't be a fancy dress watch, and I wouldn't chuck something like the Blancpain on to go to the beach. I like some of the military style vintage watches too, and the history makes them good value in my opinion, but having bought a couple of "interesting" watches this year I'm looking to treat myself with something more substantial at the moment.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

TDC said:


> Thanks for the reply, a rhodium dial datejust with jubilee bracelet is on my future wishlist but not going to try to stretch to that any time soon.
> 
> I am intrigued though if you feel IWC and Blancpain are not the brands they used to be- do you have any suggestions as to what brands are excelling at the moment that may be in my sort of price range?


 Don't get me wrong , I actually like many IWC and Blancpain watches, some I like a lot. But both have become complacent brands for me. IWC's prices for the finished article given what's inside the case is just not realistic when compared to a myriad of competitors. Blancpain seem to have more-that-would-seem-reasonable quality issues on some watches of late and again the prices tend to reflect the millions of dollars they spend funding Oceanic exploits rather than the end product of R&D.

Have you looked at Bremont ? Two of my buddies have ended up with Bremont watches after initially going watch hunting for IWC watches... Their choices are not quite my croissant-de-jour but they made sense for them....

Glashutte original senator hand date in black is also worth a look at ...


----------



## CB200 (Aug 6, 2019)

WRENCH said:


> Really ?


 Putin has an odd history with Blancpain watches; apparently he has given one to worker on a factory visit, and thrown another into wet cement!


----------



## TDC (Aug 11, 2019)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Don't get me wrong , I actually like many IWC and Blancpain watches, some I like a lot. But both have become complacent brands for me. IWC's prices for the finished article given what's inside the case is just not realistic when compared to a myriad of competitors. Blancpain seem to have more-that-would-seem-reasonable quality issues on some watches of late and again the prices tend to reflect the millions of dollars they spend funding Oceanic exploits rather than the end product of R&D.
> 
> Have you looked at Bremont ? Two of my buddies have ended up with Bremont watches after initially going watch hunting for IWC watches... Their choices are not quite my croissant-de-jour but they made sense for them....
> 
> ...


 Funnily enough I saw a Bremont design just a couple of days ago and have just found it again- this has blown my mind as a big car enthusiast! Founded in 2002 with little history would make me reluctant to spend big bucks without some reassurance however...










I know nothing of Glashutte but at a 3 second glance their designs look very "Cartier", I will investigate further...


----------



## Bonzodog (Aug 29, 2018)

All nice watches ,but the explorer is imho a classic.


----------



## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

TDC said:


> I would like something that an enthusiast would notice and appreciate, something with provenance or a story behind i


 Have you had a browse in the Members Owners Clubs section of the forum. The various brands are listed alphabetically so very easy to navigate.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

TDC said:


> Funnily enough I saw a Bremont design just a couple of days ago and have just found it again- this has blown my mind as a big car enthusiast! Founded in 2002 with little history would make me reluctant to spend big bucks without some reassurance however...
> 
> I know nothing of Glashutte but at a 3 second glance their designs look very "Cartier", I will investigate further...


 Bremont make superb watches..... however they are "enthusiastically" priced. You can get 20% off a Bremont if you use a broker ( for example , the Watch Tailor ,,, there are others , I am not promoting or attached to them in any way , just used them a couple of times ). Regards their heritage .... the proof is in the pudding as they say. The watches are not pretending , they are substantial chronometers. Try them on though , most people fall in love or dislike them almost instantly.

Glashutte Senator Hand Date is very unique in styling ... If I had the money at the moment I would buy one.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Another watch that in my opinion beats the IWC .... these are fabulous watches ....

Again , if I had the money at the moment I would certainly grab this having tried it on in the big smoke a month or two ago ...


----------



## ong (Jul 31, 2008)

I've had and still have an IWC pilot chronograph, Omega Speedmaster and once owned a Rolex Explorer.

The IWC 3717 is available used around the £2k mark and looks the part in my opinion with the silver dial rather than black (not all old pilots watches had onion crowns and black dials, this is an invention of earlier watch forums).

The Omega Speedmaster is arguably an iconic watch popularised by the NASA moon program of half a century ago. Good to have one in the collection in my opinion but its still an old design.

Ditto the a Rolex Explorer which has been around for a while (decades) like most Rolex models. Nothing wrong with this apart from the slightly dated look and Rolexes suffer from less depreciation than Omega or IWC.

Service costs for all three through an AD will be North of £500 on average but may not be needed as often as is regularly suggested. There are independent watch repairers who can also look at these but some original parts may be hard to source outside the official service route.

Hope this helps a bit.


----------



## TDC (Aug 11, 2019)

I do like some Breitling watches but there are also a lot that I find too chunky, too "busy", over-complicated and a lot of dated looking LCD faces so I haven't looked at them in general lately. Also I fell out with a customer who was venting rubbish at me recently whilst wearing his Breitling and it put me off them!


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

TDC said:


> I do like some Breitling watches but there are also a lot that I find too chunky, too "busy", over-complicated and a lot of dated looking LCD faces so I haven't looked at them in general lately. Also I fell out with a customer who was venting rubbish at me recently whilst wearing his Breitling and it put me off them!


 Hmmmm..... You should try to buy the watch , not the brand. I have lost count of how many a55hole car salesmen have tried to rip me off whilst wearing a bi-metal Rolex Sub... doesn't put me off Rolex.

"Busy" Breiltings are gradually giving way to more subtle executions as the new owner re-align the brand with demand. Not sure I always like that ( In fact I did not buy the current Colt Auto , I sourced the previous more "busy" version.

However, the new Premiers are stunning watches. In my opinion more subtle than the IWC offerings at the moment and better value. The LCD faced watches are part of their professional watch range and now really heritage pieces more so that a couple of decades past when they were "all the rage".


----------



## Richy (Oct 14, 2013)

I am lucky enough to have a Tudor, Rolex and an Omega. All are good watches in their own rights.

Have noticed someone above mentioned a Tudor Black Bay. I only recently got one and can say that I am very impressed and wear the watch daily. There are several different variations and are certainly in your price range. Having previously ignored/discounted them myself, I am now eating humble pie!


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

TDC said:


> I do like some Breitling watches but there are also a lot that I find too chunky, too "busy", over-complicated and a lot of dated looking LCD faces so I haven't looked at them in general lately. Also I fell out with a customer who was venting rubbish at me recently whilst wearing his Breitling and it put me off them!


 See, this is what happens if you join a forum. Ask a question about two watches and you'll end up getting answers about forty two. Best thing to do is buy the one you like, then everyone will say "congratulations" when you post a picture of it on your wrist. :laughing2dw: . :thumbsup:


----------



## TDC (Aug 11, 2019)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Hmmmm..... You should try to buy the watch , not the brand. I have lost count of how many a55hole car salesmen have tried to rip me off whilst wearing a bi-metal Rolex Sub... doesn't put me off Rolex.
> 
> "Busy" Breiltings are gradually giving way to more subtle executions as the new owner re-align the brand with demand. Not sure I always like that ( In fact I did not buy the current Colt Auto , I sourced the previous more "busy" version.
> 
> However, the new Premiers are stunning watches. In my opinion more subtle than the IWC offerings at the moment and better value. The LCD faced watches are part of their professional watch range and now really heritage pieces more so that a couple of decades past when they were "all the rage".


 Lol I know it doesn't reflect the brand- but can't shake it yet!



Richy said:


> I am lucky enough to have a Tudor, Rolex and an Omega. All are good watches in their own rights.
> 
> Have noticed someone above mentioned a Tudor Black Bay. I only recently got one and can say that I am very impressed and wear the watch daily. There are several different variations and are certainly in your price range. Having previously ignored/discounted them myself, I am now eating humble pie!


 I have looked (not in spectacular detail) at the Black Bay, but I just can't forgive the hour hand!



WRENCH said:


> See, this is what happens if you join a forum. Ask a question about two watches and you'll end up getting answers about forty two. Best thing to do is buy the one you like, then everyone will say "congratulations" when you post a picture of it on your wrist. :laughing2dw: . :thumbsup:


 I know- I'm a sucker for getting drawn in, ultimately I like learning and forums are great for being introduced to brands and models that are unfamiliar. Since looking again at the IWC I remembered it was the Top Gun editions that I really loved with the black case (not usually something I would go for) so I may end up waiting for that purchase.


----------



## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

To the OP - I would take both of your original choices over the Rolex any day.

I am a Bremont fan, so my bias is there, but worry not about the fact they were formed recently - just look at how much they have risen in that time. Now an established luxury brand in their own right and still growing - they recently opened their first outlet in Oz (Melbourne), When I deal with them, it's via their boutique in Hong Kong. And they're British - damn it! :biggrin:

A little tale about IWC, my 73 year old super fit (no meds) Brother in Law from Oz, will be buying his first luxury watch when he visits in October, When last here, I showed him around all the numerous brands available, everything from Seiko to MB&F and all levels in between. He knows nothing of the brands or what makes them go. So what do you think he settled on? An IWC pilots watch with sub dials. He'll make a final decision when here. Watches appeal to all ages and I don't believe models or brands can be categorised by age or history.


----------



## RTM Boy (Jun 1, 2011)

it'salivejim said:


>


 If you like the look of the Explorer, save yourself a small fortune and grab an excellent Longines Conquest L3.776.4.58.6 or one of the other models in differing diameter cases and face colours.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

RTM Boy said:


> If you like the look of the Explorer, save yourself a small fortune and grab an excellent Longines Conquest L3.776.4.58.6 or one of the other models in differing diameter cases and face colours.


 Sorry, possibly purely for sentimental reasons, the 36mm Explorer has no substitute. And its nothing to do with cost.


----------



## it'salivejim (Jan 19, 2013)

RTM Boy said:


> If you like the look of the Explorer, save yourself a small fortune and grab an excellent Longines Conquest L3.776.4.58.6 or one of the other models in differing diameter cases and face colours.


 I do like the Conquest, but like the Explorer even more, which is why I own the one on my wrist in the picture :laugh:


----------



## RTM Boy (Jun 1, 2011)

WRENCH said:


> Sorry, possibly purely for sentimental reasons, the 36mm Explorer has no substitute. And its nothing to do with cost.


 I can understand that, each of us has their own relationship with watches and reasons for wearing what we do, and I especially appreciate sentiment reasons.

Whilst I agree that broadly speaking you get what you pay for, I'm really quite uncomfortable with the way certain brands have hiked up their prices, restricted supply and splurge astronomical sums on 'ambassadors' and sponsorship and outdoor advertising and boutiques in ultra extensive locations, etc., (all of which is plainly unnecessary given that Rolex could sell every watch it makes without any of it). The whole gin-palace marketing hype approach is a major turn off for me as it adds considerable product cost without the slightest tangible benefit.

I'd like to see Rolex actually try out some genuinely new designs, rather than take the Porsche 911 approach to originality. In the absence of even that, they do nothing for me, I'm afraid.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

it'salivejim said:


> I do like the Conquest, but like the Explorer even more, which is why I own the one on my wrist in the picture :laugh:


 Being an owner of the 41mm Conquest I would say they are not close alternatives due to size. The Explorer looks perfect in its modest size ,,, however the 39mm Conquest does not. The case looks out of proportion to the bracelet and although not so on the strap , it still looks a bit wrong. The 41mm Is perfect but does wear big compared to the Rolex and the 44mm Conquest I think looks too big full stop.



RTM Boy said:


> I can understand that, each of us has their own relationship with watches and reasons for wearing what we do, and I especially appreciate sentiment reasons.
> 
> Whilst I agree that broadly speaking you get what you pay for, I'm really quite uncomfortable with the way certain brands have hiked up their prices, restricted supply and splurge astronomical sums on 'ambassadors' and sponsorship and outdoor advertising and boutiques in ultra extensive locations, etc., (all of which is plainly unnecessary given that Rolex could sell every watch it makes without any of it). The whole gin-palace marketing hype approach is a major turn off for me as it adds considerable product cost without the slightest tangible benefit.
> 
> I'd like to see Rolex actually try out some genuinely new designs, rather than take the Porsche 911 approach to originality. In the absence of even that, they do nothing for me, I'm afraid.


 The explorer is over priced in my opinion. OPs and DJs still just the right side of not taking the pi55 price wise ... but I do get your drift on this.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

RTM Boy said:


> Rolex﻿ could sell every watch it makes without any of it).


 Yes, but probably as a result of many years of promotion.



JonnyOldBoy said:


> The﻿﻿ explo﻿rer is ove﻿r priced﻿ in m﻿y o﻿pini﻿on.﻿ ﻿


 Of course it is. The Tudor Black Bay 36 is better finished, and has the added expense of Lady GaGa's endorsement, yet it's half the price. Mind you, that 904L stainless doesn't come cheap. My original Explorer had a folded stainless bracelet that made a Seiko 5 look like and feel like quality,


----------



## RTM Boy (Jun 1, 2011)

WRENCH said:


> Yes, but probably as a result of many years of promotion.
> 
> Of course it is. The Tudor Black Bay 36 is better finished, and has the added expense of Lady GaGa's endorsement, yet it's half the price.


 Indeed, all manufacturers have promoted their watches to a greater or lesser extent, but Rolex's spend today must be at an all-time high and well above that necessary for brand-building or brand-maintaining levels. That is its choice. Every Formula 1 track is plastered with Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex... Every tennis court. Every golf tee. Every yachting event.

GaGa must certainly have cost Tudor alot, although its approach is more restrained than it's sister brand. :yes:

Advertising lore states that any sponsorship must be *relevant *to the brand and especially when it comes to sport, it's all about backing the *winner*.



Who *used *to drive fast, but not anymore? Sir Jackie, Nico Rosberg, Mark Webber. Does being a past winner say the right thing? Discuss 


Who missed the cut at the British Open at Royal Portrush? Tiger Woods, Phil Mickelson, Jason Day... "The ball is round", as they say in Italy. :mad0218:


Who came second at Wimbledon? No-one ever remembers who came second, do they Roger? :sadwalk:











What do all these people have in common? Multi-millionaires who could afford to buy a Rolex out of their own cash without even noticing the cost, rather than get ordinary buyers to subsidise their free gifts and further enhance their financial status. What exactly is the purpose of a brand ambassador for Rolex? :hmmm9uh: Is Rolex not well known enough? Is Rolex a cheap brand that needs to be dragged upmarket by association with uber wealthy and successful people?

Yes, I know, I'm pushing the point to make a point. :tongue:

But today Rolex increasingly looks like a global marketing behemoth that happens to also make watches and waiting lists. And this strategy clearly works. So, who am I to criticise? :notworthy: It is in fact worthy of a documentary and/or book that business schools can use to teach their students how to build a brand that does not need to sell any product at all, merely create waiting lists that stretch into infinity. Poor old Tudor has to make do with Lady GaGa and actually selling watches. How could that possibly work?! :laugh:


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

WRENCH said:


> Sorry, possibly purely for sentimental reasons, the 36mm Explorer has no substitute. And its nothing to do with cost.


 I have to agree the 36mm Explorer is for me the perfect watch..i have tried the 39mm and for me the Dial is out of proportion with the bracelet yes it has the better modern movement and a better bracelet but for me its just to big maybe its just the shape of my wrist..


----------



## yokel (Jul 30, 2017)

RTM Boy said:


> But today Rolex increasingly looks like a global marketing behemoth that happens to also make watches and waiting lists. And this strategy clearly works. So, who am I to criticise? :notworthy:


 All about manufacturing the illusion of exclusivity despite making a million pieces each year :hmmm9uh:

I do think there is an increasing number of folk seeing through the carefully weaved myth though :tongue:

.


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

yokel said:


> All about manufacturing the illusion of exclusivity despite making a million pieces each year :hmmm9uh:
> 
> I do think there is an increasing number of folk seeing through the carefully weaved myth though :tongue:
> 
> .


 what you really mean is its all a big con and a right rip off then? :tumbleweed:

thats why @BondandBigM is flogging the rolex and has an Henry sumet or other from maxtk


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

yokel said:


> I do﻿﻿ think there is an increasing number of folk seeing through the carefully weaved myth thou﻿g﻿h﻿ ﻿


 That comes with age. :laughing2dw:


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

WRENCH said:


> That comes with age. :laughing2dw:


 so when you getting shut of the Tudor then and buying a casio? Oh hang on.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Nigelp said:


> so when you getting shut of the Tudor


 They were gifts. :laughing2dw:


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

WRENCH said:


> They were gifts. :laughing2dw:


 lucky lad!

i'll have 'em


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Nigelp said:


> i'll have 'em


 Earn them.


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

WRENCH said:


> Earn them.


 oh well not worth it for them id want somet right. Like a Rolex

i'll plod on

poor old me.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Nigelp said:


> oh well not worth it for them id want somet right. Like a Rolex


 Like this one ?









Got that tank cap of some American guy. McQueen I think he said his name was. I used to give him tips on how tune his Triumphs.


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

WRENCH said:


> Like this one ?
> 
> Got that tank cap of some American guy. McQueen I think he said his name was. I used to give him tips on how tune his Triumphs.


 yeh can i have it?


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Nigelp said:


> yeh can i have it?


 No.


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

WRENCH said:


> No.


 why?

you and me would have been great in this can you brew whisky being scotch?






cant trust the germans good job we are escaping...again

[IMG alt="large.20170325_102858_kindlephoto-1662476.jpg.bae7a8ff123fb8eb8f5a6f974a94c90e.jpg" data-ratio="77.88"]https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/forumgallery/monthly_2018_06/large.20170325_102858_kindlephoto-1662476.jpg.bae7a8ff123fb8eb8f5a6f974a94c90e.jpg[/IMG]

how do you get that case back on that mate?


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Nigelp said:


> you﻿﻿ and﻿ m﻿e w﻿ould ﻿﻿have﻿ b﻿e﻿en ﻿gr﻿e﻿a﻿t in﻿﻿ t﻿﻿hi﻿s﻿ ﻿﻿


 I thought you were great in this. Was it autobiographical ?


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

WRENCH said:


> I thought you were great in this. Was it autobiographical ?


 thank you sir

:laugh:

probably. If you earned them they werent gifts

you deserved what you got


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

RTM Boy said:


> And this strategy clearly works. So, who am I to criticise?


 Or does it ? ( Jeremy Clarkson voice : ) Some say ..... that they got their fingers burnt on the precious metal market a few years back. Some say ...... that it caused them to abruptly shift strategy on what to make and sell. Some say ...... That this has led to the tumble weeds that can be spotted blowing through Rolex Watch cabinets in ADs where watches should be. Some say ..... That a company run by old geezers living in the past rather than a public limited company run by accountable executives is not necessarily a company being steered optimally.

Of course this is all chit chat and goss from various sources over the years etc etc and nothing more.

At the end of the day marketing seems to work in the watch world and that dusty old farts who think Federer is anything approaching "cool" maybe end up going to a Rolex store in the hope of buying a "Watch like Roger's" ... and coming home with anything really that was actually in stock that vaguely looks a bit like it ( Gold DJ ).

incidentally ..... if anyone take offence from my comment because they think Roger Federer is "cool" then my sincerest apologies.


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Or does it ? ( Jeremy Clarkson voice : ) Some say ..... that they got their fingers burnt on the precious metal market a few years back. Some say ...... that it caused them to abruptly shift strategy on what to make and sell. Some say ...... That this has led to the tumble weeds that can be spotted blowing through Rolex Watch cabinets in ADs where watches should be. Some say ..... That a company run by old geezers living in the past rather than a public limited company run by accountable executives is not necessarily a company being steered optimally.
> 
> Of course this is all chit chat and goss from various sources over the years etc etc and nothing more.
> 
> ...


 marketing works in everything jonny, why do you think mercedes and bmw can flog us all these over priced motors?

take @BondandBigM for example his posts on here have been terrible marketing for Rolex and now look at them. A tin pot fella like that with a watch like that.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Nigelp said:


> marketing works in everything jonny, why do you think mercedes and bmw can flog us all these over priced motors?


 If you buy a 30 months old ex fleet Merc C Class coupe with less than 20K on the clock and for around 55% of RRP , its about the best value spend on any car anywhere....

Would touch modern BMWs though......

The marketing if for the guy that buys it new .... :thumbsup:


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> If you buy a 30 months old ex fleet Merc C Class coupe with less than 20K on the clock and for around 55% of RRP , its about the best value spend on any car anywhere....
> 
> Would touch modern BMWs though......
> 
> The marketing if for the guy that buys it new .... :thumbsup:


 get any of them 10 year old even an s class SL for a few grand.

me and @scottswatches the proper spivs we are have had them or have them and bond is after an old 10 grand 911 if he can squeeze it out of his rolex will he do it?


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> ﻿its about﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿ the best value spen﻿d on ﻿any car ﻿anyw﻿here....﻿


 And in which world would this be ?


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> And in which world would this be ?


 The world where someone wants to drive a very high quality modern car they intend to keep for a few years , but wants to pay 55% of the RRP for new.

Is it Penny Farthings and who-has-the-dapple-grey to pull the chariot up your way ?

Also ... talking of marketing and cars ... Amazing story about the basic bit of market research that worked out that British WW2 Vets would not ever buy an "Opel" so GM ( Against their initial wishes ) kept the "Vauxhall" badge for UK cars and phased out the Opel variants entirely for UK .... even though many "Vauxhalls" were still being made in the Adam Opel factory in Germany ..... pure marketing .... to be admired at times ( but not when millionaires wearing watches mean many pay £1000 too much for them ) .


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Is﻿﻿ it P﻿﻿enny Farthi﻿ng﻿s and wh﻿o-has﻿-the-﻿dapple﻿-g﻿r﻿﻿ey to p﻿ull t﻿he c﻿hariot ﻿u﻿p your ﻿w﻿ay﻿ ? ﻿﻿﻿


 Not really, but then I never judge people by what they drive.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> Not really, but then I never judge people by what they drive.


 Me neither ... but I judge people on their judgement ...


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> .. but I ju﻿dge people ﻿on their ju﻿dgem﻿ent ﻿...


 and I judge people on their judgement of their insincere judgement of consumerist propaganda targeted by judgemental marketing departments with large baited hooks. :laughing2dw:


----------



## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

RTM Boy said:


> And this strategy clearly works. So, who am I to criticise? :notworthy: It is in fact worthy of a documentary and/or book that business schools can use to teach their students how to build a brand


 There was quite a bit about this in the book by Mark McCormack titled `What they don't teach you at Harvard Business School'. Mark was a lawyer and sports promoter who founded IMG (International Marketing Group) and played a major role in promoting Golf with the Big Three series where Gary Player, Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus played a series of televised matches. He also introduced Rolex to Wimbledon as a main sponsor. In one section of the book he talked about image when one of his managers dressed in a polo shirt and chinos for a meeting with one of the tennis stars they managed - he explained to the manager that their clients expected them to look like bankers/accountants/lawyers and not to wear the casual dress of the sports stars.


----------



## RTM Boy (Jun 1, 2011)

WRENCH said:


> but then I never judge people by what they drive.


 Oh, but that's the fun of it - judging people by the car they drive - and it's so often accurate :laugh: :laugh:








richy176 said:


> There was quite a bit about this in the book by Mark McCormack titled `What they don't teach you at Harvard Business School'. Mark was a lawyer and sports promoter who founded IMG (International Marketing Group) and played a major role in promoting Golf with the Big Three series where Gary Player, Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus played a series of televised matches. He also introduced Rolex to Wimbledon as a main sponsor. In one section of the book he talked about image when one of his managers dressed in a polo shirt and chinos for a meeting with one of the tennis stars they managed - he explained to the manager that their clients expected them to look like bankers/accountants/lawyers and not to wear the casual dress of the sports stars.


 So managers shouldn't wear this kind of thing either??? :laugh: :laugh:


----------



## TDC (Aug 11, 2019)

Anyhow... I've found a couple of potential Explorer options which look good price-wise, so I'm planning a trip next week to go and view a handful of watches to see what tempts me most. I'd almost ruled out the Explorer after the picture posted early in this thread as it is not very flattering but seeing some other angles reminded me of how I felt when I tried it on a few months ago so going to see if it warrants the extra money to me! I'll also see the IWC and Omega offerings to see if they grab my attention and will try to remember that they are half the price of the Rolex!


----------



## it'salivejim (Jan 19, 2013)

TDC said:


> I'd almost ruled out the Explorer after the picture posted early in this thread as it is not very flattering …


 Thanks. I'll remember that next time you ask for any help.


----------



## TDC (Aug 11, 2019)

it'salivejim said:


> Thanks. I'll remember that next time you ask for any help.


 I actually tried to edit that bit the second I posted- but I have no edit button. It was following the "geography teacher" comments and I did then go on to say that from other angles it looks better, so that quote was taken out of context! I also mentioned in my "introduction" thread that the Tag Heuer and Explorer that I viewed in a shop window are what got me into watches- so as it is firmly in my top 3 I'm not going to condemn it, simply that the photo didn't show the depth and detail on the hour markers and hands etc that the watch has when you see it in person.


----------



## it'salivejim (Jan 19, 2013)

TDC said:


> I actually tried to edit that bit the second I posted- but I have no edit button. It was following the "geography teacher" comments and I did then go on to say that from other angles it looks better, so that quote was taken out of context! I also mentioned in my "introduction" thread that the Tag Heuer and Explorer that I viewed in a shop window are what got me into watches- so as it is firmly in my top 3 I'm not going to condemn it, simply that the photo didn't show the depth and detail on the hour markers and hands etc that the watch has when you see it in person.


 I was only joking but forgot the smiley face


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

it'salivejim said:


> I was only joking but forgot the smiley face


 .... and forgot to post a picture of your Worcester tweed jacket with leather elbow pads that sets it off a treat ..... :laughing2dw:


----------



## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Personally I would go for a speedy but a more standard variety (with the straight white hands)

I discriminate against IWC on the grounds that they are hard to see and a certain loss but I simply don't fancy the one pictured regardless of brand.


----------



## TDC (Aug 11, 2019)

Having not actually tried one yet I can't agree with the visibility issues of the IWC that a couple of members have mentioned, but the details on this are just great IMO, unfortunately it is in another price bracket over the silver cased one at the start of the thread!










I keep going back to Speedmasters every time I browse various watch sites in the 2-3k range, they keep drawing me in but I do get they are an old design, I think that's why I like the FOIS- the details like the hands and nice lugs are plus points for me- I don't have any sentimental ties to the original having been born in the 80's but I would like to own an original one day.

Planet Ocean has also got my attention- the wife isn't a fan but I like the flash of colour- it's not something I imagine I would pick to wear all the time though.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

TDC said:


> 1. Having not actually tried one yet
> 
> 2. I think that's why I like the FOIS- the details like the hands and nice lugs are plus points for me
> 
> 3. Planet Ocean has also got my attention- the wife isn't a fan but I like the flash of colour- it's not something I imagine I would pick to wear all the time though.


 1. You seriously need to because they are very "personal on the wrist and they were big sometimes"

2. The hands reflect a lot of light , in indoor lighting the dial looks a lot different than is normal ambient light.

3. I know four people who own that watch , two in orange and two in black. All four of them wear it as their beater , daily wearer. Talking to a lot of people about these watches over the years ( always been and admirer ) it seems although they appear to be collector watches , if they don't get worn they tend to get flipped.... just my take on it but its worth considering.


----------



## TDC (Aug 11, 2019)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> 1. You seriously need to because they are very "personal on the wrist and they were big sometimes"
> 
> 2. The hands reflect a lot of light , in indoor lighting the dial looks a lot different than is normal ambient light.
> 
> 3. I know four people who own that watch , two in orange and two in black. All four of them wear it as their beater , daily wearer. Talking to a lot of people about these watches over the years ( always been and admirer ) it seems although they appear to be collector watches , if they don't get worn they tend to get flipped.... just my take on it but its worth considering.


 I will be trying these before I buy- even if it is ultimately online.

As I find myself in and out of fabrication workshops most days I have a kinetic Seiko that I bought new a few months ago as my daily as it's rugged and I'm not precious about it, I actually like wearing it for that reason- it already has a few sparks embedded in the crystal which would really wind me up if it were a "special" watch!


----------



## TDC (Aug 11, 2019)

Had a trip out today and happened to find a store with the following in, having dismissed the Railmaster previously it was nice to see it in the flesh, and whilst I still don't love the hour markers I do really like the watch, especially with the strap that I'd not seen before.

Also they had several versions of the Speedmaster, I looked at the "normal?!" professional and the FOIS and came to the conclusion that I would like a cross between the two. I love the case of the FOIS with the exposed pushers and crown, and the straight lugs. However the Hestalite is indeed much more attractive in real life than the sapphire crystal, and the clasp is lovely.




























As the SM is completely different to the RM it's not much of a comparison, when I've located an IWC dealer and an Explorer that is in stock it may be a tougher decision, at the moment I'm leaning towards the RM though! I know nothing about the history of the model which is something I like to know, so will be doing some reading shortly.

I meant to add, they had a SM with sapphire crystal and clear back which I did not know existed either, is this a recent addition to the range? The clear back is nice but sapphire is not as nice, must be the version made for those who don't like the thought of scratching the hestalite...


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

TDC said:


> I meant to add, they had a SM with sapphire crystal and clear back which I did not know existed either, is this a recent addition to the range? The clear back is nice but sapphire is not as nice, must be the version made for those who don't like the thought of scratching the hestalite...


 i have been through all this ... its exhausting ... The sapphire sandwich Moonwatch is superior in many way to the "original" but for me it was all academic ... they are just too big for such a basic dial watch. Thats why the Speedmaster Date 39mm is so fabulous.... in my opinion.... The Moonwatch is great to remind us all how great things were 50 years ago , but at the end of the day .... its place in history is what it is but that does not mean those 50 yers of improvements are not worth a look ... :thumbsup:


----------



## Thomasr (Oct 11, 2011)

The bracelet game is strong with the iwc. They've really improved the feel and design. Also the one in the photo uses a 7750 whereas the new ones use their in-house 69***


----------



## alan1219 (Oct 1, 2019)

Personally explorer, 36mm if you can find it > FOIS (perfect size) and almost a direct replica of the schirra's > IWC simply has too much going on on the dial sorry not a fan


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> The Rolex explorer is to me the "Geography Teachers Jacket" of watches .... it smells of heritage but is just soooooo dull.


 Yes I know this quote is from months ago but it just had to be repeated :laughing2dw: :laughing2dw: :laugh:

Brilliant! :teethsmile:


----------

