# Water pump / Flow help



## Technium (Feb 9, 2010)

Hi All

Im hoping you may be able to help me as im abit stuck.

I have been trying to build a solar powered watering system for the wifes greenhouse but the water doesnt seem to have enough pressure.

Im following this instructable - http://www.instructables.com/id/Automatic-Solar-Powered-Greenhouse-Watering-System/

I purchased this bilge pump which is placed in a water butt next to the greenhouse - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111886457841?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I fitted the 28mm hose to the pump which pumps up out of the water butt and into the greenhouse (total length about 4.5ft) and it then connects to this solenoid (to stop syphoning water when off) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350868670434?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The otherside of the solenoid is fitted with normal size garden hose and then off the hose is the micro irregation pieces.

When the pump runs it has good flow at the point of before the solenoid, its also fairly good coming out of the solenoid but once all connected then the flow to the plants is really poor.

Is there a way to increase the pressure? If I was to only use 1ft of the 28mm wider hose and then the converter to the smaller hose would that be better?

Any ideas?

thanks


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

It is possibly a matter of the pumps rate of flow, gallons per hour or however it is rated.

Later,
William


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## Technium (Feb 9, 2010)

Well the pump is meant to do 1100 GPH but it just doesnt seem to have any pressure once it hits the flower bed


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2016)

Technium said:


> Well the pump is meant to do 1100 GPH but it just doesnt seem to have any pressure once it hits the flower bed


 go from 28mm down to 15mm and you should see an improvement


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

I just looked at the pump. Judging by the size, it appears to be low pressure/low lift in nature.

Later,
William


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## Technium (Feb 9, 2010)

yeah I was thinking that using a smaller pipe should increase the pressure as the pump wont need as much power to push it up through the smaller hose.

I will try adjusting it this weekend and see what that does.

thanks


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## SBryantgb (Jul 2, 2015)

Des the instructables have the pump pushing the water out of the top of the butt (snigger) or the bottom?


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2016)

SBryantgb said:


> Des the instructables have the pump pushing the water out of the top of the butt (snigger) or the bottom?


 sounds like a line from Family Guy :tongue:


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## Technium (Feb 9, 2010)

SBryantgb said:


> Des the instructables have the pump pushing the water out of the top of the butt (snigger) or the bottom?


 Unfortunately I cant really tell, I did contact the author but as it was done 2 years ago I havent had a reply and doubt hes even online anymore. Im gutted because I bought the exact same stuff and have spent two weeks putting it all together (chuffed with myself) and now I have this slight issue.


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## SBryantgb (Jul 2, 2015)

Technium said:


> Unfortunately I cant really tell, I did contact the author but as it was done 2 years ago I havent had a reply and doubt hes even online anymore. Im gutted because I bought the exact same stuff and have spent two weeks putting it all together (chuffed with myself) and now I have this slight issue.


 Okay where is the exit point for the water from the water butt?


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

A few thoughts on the pump. In N.A.,household pumps typically operate 30psi systems with 1/4 to 1/3 horsepower motors. Your pump has a tiny motor and must have an extremely short effective lift. What is the total length of hose in the system and what is the collective diameter of the nozzles?

Later,
William


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## SBryantgb (Jul 2, 2015)

William_Wilson said:


> A few thoughts on the pump. In N.A.,household pumps typically operate 30psi systems with 1/4 to 1/3 horsepower motors. Your pump has a tiny motor and must have an extremely short effective lift. What is the total length of hose in the system and what is the collective diameter of the nozzles?
> 
> Later,
> William


 This is what I was thinking..... especially if the pump is also fighting gravity lifting the water out of the top of the water butt. the pressure from an average sized water butt set 2ft above ground level should give quite a nice sprinkle without a pump if the water is fed from the bottom


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## Rotundus (May 7, 2012)

as above raise the base of the butt, then feed the water out as near the base as possible - reduce the distance from the butt to the area being irrigated and increase the nozzle apertures.

any increase in height (that the fluid has to flow) , overall length , turns & each reduction of diameter of pipe effectively increase the amount of work the pump will have to do to push a set amount of fluid.

but it sounds as if you should initially should increase the nozzel appertures if you have a decent flow rate after the solenoid. decreasing the pipe diameter will at a guess only make the situation worse.

the only other thing i can think of off the top of my head is to simply use the flow from the output of the solenoid as is to fill a secondry container which could gravity feed the the final irrigation pipes - assuming they are at or near ground level. but this may well be beyong the limits of your pump as this secondry container would have to be elevated.

by the way are you definitely supplying the pump with 3A at 12V - perhaps the issue is with the electrics ? or perhaps not as you say you have reasonable flow at the solenoid output - just be aware that itty bitty nozzle will restrict the flow quite a bit and are probably the straw breaking the motors back ....


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## Technium (Feb 9, 2010)

Thanks for the responses guys I will try to answer a few of the questions.

The pump is situated at the bottom of the water but and the water butt has been sat at ground level and ive also tried it sat on the decking which is 2 ft about ground level. The pump is powered by two 12v batteries in parallel but not sure of how many amps. The pump has the 28mm hose connected to it and pumps the water up out of the water butt (approx 3ft) and then over the top then it flows down about 6" into the greenhouse where it is then connected to a reducer with a 6" normal size hose pipe on it with then a hoselock connector which allows me to connect that hose to the input side of the solenoid. The other side of the solenoid then has normal hoselock connector and garden hose fitted to it which is connected around the greenhouse at waist height (length approx 15ft) and then coming off this hose pipe is the 4mm irregation pipes with sprinklers and these are coming of the hose pipe about every 2ft. The sprinkers dont sprinkle they drip which defeats the purpose of this setup


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## Rotundus (May 7, 2012)

i would raise the base of the butt and feed the pump via a hole near the bottom - that would remove the initial 3 foot lift needed and partially compensate for the plumbing at waist height in the green house. shorten all the lengths as much as possible - can you relocate the butt nearer the green house ?

does the pump have to be run submerged - i dont think so as it says in the blurb it wont burn out if run dry .... dunno for sure though .....

and finally - was the water in the butt clean - if you used a submerged pump sitting at the bottom of the barrel could you have pumped crud through the system which may be partially blocking the sprinkler nozzels ?

thats all i have for you mate - good luck !

PLEASE NOTE : the above advise comes with no guarantee of success and will probably cause considerable swearing and loss of temper !


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## Technium (Feb 9, 2010)

Rotundus said:


> PLEASE NOTE : the above advise comes with no guarantee of success and will probably cause considerable swearing and loss of temper !


 It already has!!!!

Thanks mate, the butt is only 1 ft away from the greenhouse glass. Im not sure I can raise the butt much more because I need it to fill up from the guttering around the greenhouse.

I have purchased a 28mm hose connector which I can drill into the water butt to allow the water to be pumped straight out the side and then up into the greenhouse instead of pumping it up 3ft out of the butt. (hope that makes sense).

The butt was empty and filled from garden hose but may have had abit of crud but not alot but at the weekend when I do my tests I will strip everything back just to make sure all pipe work etc is clean and clear.

thanks again.


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## Technium (Feb 9, 2010)

ok small quick update. I had half hour to kill so quickly connected a 6" length of 28mm hose to the pump and then reducer and then 5ft of garden hose to then connect to the solenoid and got same problem although flow seems great before and after connection to solenoid.

Then I swapped and connected 6ft length of 28mm hose to the pump and then connected a reducer and 6" of garden hose and then connected to solenoid but still exact same problem.

I have ordered a 28mm hose connector which is used to connect two water butts together so I will connect the pump to the 28mm connector at the bottom of the butt and then try getting the water outside of the bottom of the butt and then have it go up into the greenhouse but that could be a few days before it arrives before I can test this.

thanks

Colin


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2016)

Technium said:


> ok small quick update. I had half hour to kill so quickly connected a 6" length of 28mm hose to the pump and then reducer and then 5ft of garden hose to then connect to the solenoid and got same problem although flow seems great before and after connection to solenoid.
> 
> Then I swapped and connected 6ft length of 28mm hose to the pump and then connected a reducer and 6" of garden hose and then connected to solenoid but still exact same problem.
> 
> ...


 should the reducer not be at the end of the flow/hose? just seems you are building pressure with the reducer then losing it again in the hose


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## Technium (Feb 9, 2010)

Well I need to connect a reducer to allow me to connect the 28mm pump hose to the solenoid then it comes out the solenoid and stays in the reduced width hose to then go around the greenhouse. As I said Im not sure im doing it right which is why im here, actually I know im not otherwise I wouldnt be here LOL.

thanks

Colin


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

I have looked the pump up on the net, and the importer/manufacturer does not provide any useful specs about its performance. Judging by its small size and limited power draw and the fact it is a bilge pump, I suspect it can't handle the lift, distance and restrictions in flow it is facing.

Later,
William


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2016)

William_Wilson said:


> I have looked the pump up on the net, and the importer/manufacturer does not provide any useful specs about its performance. Judging by its small size and limited power draw and the fact it is a bilge pump, I suspect it can't handle the lift, distance and restrictions in flow it is facing.
> 
> Later,
> William


 i would experiment with a car screen wash motor, reduce all the hoses down to about 6mm, stick some windscreen spray nozzles on the ends and off you go, as long as the motor is kept cool it should be reliable IMO


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Bruce said:


> i would experiment with a car screen wash motor, reduce all the hoses down to about 6mm, stick some windscreen spray nozzles on the ends and off you go, al long as the motor is kept cool it should be reliable IMO


 Washer pumps are only pushing fluid around four feet through 3/16" tubing. They don't have the fortitude for an epic task such as this. :wink:

This pump is a bit heftier than required but I think something along these lines would be more suitable: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X05G1A/ref=s9_top_hd_bw_bk2cDL_g60_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-2&pf_rd_r=09HYSAHZGCB0YCGPRYEJ&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=2188916962&pf_rd_i=680335011

Later,
William


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## Technium (Feb 9, 2010)

Thanks guys,

William, isnt that mains pump? I cant get mains to greenhouse really so need to have battery which is why I ended up setting up the solar panel and stuff.

Im going to try and spend some more time experimenting this weekend so keep the ideas coming guys.

thanks


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2016)

William_Wilson said:


> Washer pumps are only pushing fluid around four feet through 3/16" tubing. They don't have the fortitude for an epic task such as this. :wink:
> 
> This pump is a bit heftier than required but I think something along these lines would be more suitable: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X05G1A/ref=s9_top_hd_bw_bk2cDL_g60_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-2&pf_rd_r=09HYSAHZGCB0YCGPRYEJ&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=2188916962&pf_rd_i=680335011
> 
> ...


 yes but thats 100volts, i am talking 12 or 24 and i think the OP was 24v, if its just a quick blast in a green house a screen pump would do the job and if nothing else it would prove the idea


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Bruce said:


> yes but thats 100volts, i am talking 12 or 24 and i think the OP was 24v, if its just a quick blast in a green house a screen pump would do the job and if nothing else it would prove the idea


 The pump you are suggesting is unlikely to be able to cover the 20 foot distance and supply the numerous outlets. There are somewhat larger 12 volt bilge pumps that are more suited for the lift and distance involved.

Later,
William


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2016)

William_Wilson said:


> The pump you are suggesting is unlikely to be able to cover the 20 foot distance and supply the numerous outlets. There are somewhat larger 12 volt bilge pumps that are more suited for the lift and distance involved.
> 
> Later,
> William


 i am thinking low volume high pressure, you are going high volume low pressure, but ultimately this is to be solar powered so consumption is an issue, a bilge pump may be quite high power consumption


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Bruce said:


> i am thinking low volume high pressure, you are going high volume low pressure, but ultimately this is to be solar powered so consumption is an issue, a bilge pump may be quite high power consumption


 Fair enough, but the type of pump you have in mind doesn't have a very high pressure rating and there is a need for moderate volume. A fuel pump from a high pressure fuel injection system would likely be just about enough for the job, but they are rather expensive.

Later,
William


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2016)

William_Wilson said:


> Fair enough, but the type of pump you have in mind doesn't have a very high pressure rating and there is a need for moderate volume. A fuel pump from a high pressure fuel injection system would likely be just about enough for the job, but they are rather expensive.
> 
> Later,
> William


 those little washer pumps for their size kick out some pressure and they are self priming too so no air locks, if it was possible to grow any kind of plant in Scotland i would give it a try :biggrin:

i know someone [ prat] that managed to empty his diesel tank with a pressure washer pump, he had filled his tank with petrol, it only took about 10 mins to empty about 70 litres, but the combination of electricity, heat and potential sparks made my blood run cold :swoon:


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Bruce said:


> those little washer pumps for their size kick out some pressure and they are self priming too so no air locks, if it was possible to grow any kind of plant in Scotland i would give it a try :biggrin:
> 
> i know someone [ prat] that managed to empty his diesel tank with a pressure washer pump, he had filled his tank with petrol, it only took about 10 mins to empty about 70 litres, but the combination of electricity, heat and potential sparks made my blood run cold :swoon:


 I managed to use a cutting torch around fuel tanks for many years without a fire, of course my last boss managed to set fire to a drain pan filled with petrol. That was messy. It's all technique you know. :wink:

Anyway, washer pumps have a duty cycle of around 10% per minute, so a bit problematic. I think removing the restriction at the destination was mentioned before and is likely the best chance to make the existing equipment work. It looks like the shut-off valve reduces the flow to about 10mm which makes the whole balancing act a bit tricky.

Later,
William


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## Technium (Feb 9, 2010)

ok abit of an update on this one.

I changed the pump and bought a different one with a better head height which helped but again once connected up it didnt work so then I started to look at the micro irregation pipes and changed the tube size that goes down to the plants and I had alot better flow.

I have 5 feeds coming off the main pipe which flows good but somehow I need to take those 5 feeds and water about 25 plants so I am thinking of using each feed to fill a coke bottle and then take a further 5 feeds off each bottle to water the plants individually via gravity.

Does anyone have any better ideas?


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