# Blue Dialed Watches From The 70's



## KEITHT (Dec 2, 2007)

Can somebody answer this question, take a look at all the blue dialed watches on the SM120 thread.

Why have they all got damage around the markers?, i have had a few watches with blue dials from this era, several megaquartz, f300's, Xl-tronics, Ultronics etc and most have had this damage, although you barely see it with the other colours.

I suspect that the luminous material is to blame, but why nearly always the blue ones!! A pigment in the blue itself, or maybe a different manufactuer of luminous paint.????

Strangely though all but one of the Speedsonics i have owned or worked on have been fine and on that one the damage was very minor, in fact the only tuning fork Chrono i have owned with this type of damage was a Certronic Chronolympic

Check out other pics of these types of watches with blue dials and you will see that a large percentage have this problem.

Keith


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## strange_too (Feb 19, 2007)

My best bet would be a problem with the batch manufacture. A reaction of some kind, whether it's the Tritum or the a fault with the blue itself I can't be certain.

I know there is also a problem with the Cones too


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

My blue-dialled f300 Geneve has that problem in a couple of places. (The one with the darker blue stripe across it.)

As well as some pin-head spots around a couple of the raised block-type markers, the dial is grained and some of the 'ridges' created by the graining appear to have quite thin paint, as I can see a gold metallic affect showing through.

From a distance the dial looks solid blue, but under a loupe it really looks like Omega took the equivalent metallic-gold dial (used in the gold-cased model) and applied a dye or wash to it, before applying the lettering.

I wonder if that is the reason for the problem; that those blue dials didn't start out blue, but are standard silver or gold-coloured metallic dials overpainted or tinted with blue? I've a couple of '70s blue-dialled Geneve automatics that don't have that problem at all, but those look like the dial is blue 'through and through'.

Perhapse the tint/dye/paint doesn't bond properly to the metallic ground, and the raised markers expand and contract differentially (as they are made of a different material). That might cause the dye to flake where the marker meets the dial?

Or perhaps they have to remove the paint/dye to make the markers bond to the dial and the marks are evidence of that?

Only guesses, obviously.


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## foztex (Nov 6, 2005)

Ah the quest for a good blue dial.

funnily enough Keith it was just that quest that led me to buy the blue dialled conical you had on the bay in july '06. Alas it too was a state.

Omega definitely had big problems in the 70's with the thick blue paint they used. 'dial acne' I have heard it referred to as. not limited to the f3's either and much speculation has been made to its causes. Nalu in particular has studied it and makes some comments on the DD PP dials page.

there is certainly 2 types of paint and 2 distinct problems. The first is acne or blistering of the paint. Affects the thick matt paint and is seen on f3s and PPs here are a couple of my examples.



















The second problem is as Andy mentioned, flaking and cracking. this seems to be the bane of the thin glossy paint used on the geneve's and chronos and looks to be simply bad adherence or perhaps cracking due to temperature related expansion of the dial metal?. My original SM120 dial suffered from cracks.










and the 120c original dial had flaking, Notice it is worst next to the lume (pointing to something in the lume compound) and also on the subdial edges (where the paint would be thinnest, paint hates sharp edges) and also seems to follow the vertical brushing of the dial metal.










I really wanted to have a seamaster signed dial for my franken but gave up after buying 4 possible donors all with problems and in the end used an unsigned chronometer marked anodised dial.

would love to hear further conjecture on this subject.

Andy


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## foztex (Nov 6, 2005)

as an aside, the f300 dials that do seem to have longevity are the simple geneves










and those of the grand daddy hummer producer, my fave 'suede' texture 214



















come on fellas, any thoughts?

Andy


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## KEITHT (Dec 2, 2007)

Interesting thoughts from all.

Andy, your pic of the Geneve has just ruined another of my theories, regarding whether the luminous paint is on the dial itself or on the batons..doh! As your dial is perfect, that made me check an Omega dial i remembered i had ( same one as JonW Franken SM120) and that is also perfect...um!

I think though that the fate of the cones, especially the blue and black dial ones is slightly different, those that have the almost textured thick finish tend to crack or bubble, possibly caused by the tritium etc turning to dust maybe? I have seen a few of these with that dusty covering.

It tends to be the printed dials that suffer the corrosion, i have just inspected an Xl-tronic dial i have and it almost seems to have been eaten away around the luminous markers which themselves are remarkably intact. In contrast, most of the blue dialed Accutrons i have had or worked on have been OK! so is it just the Swiss ones?

Hopefully a paint/print expert with a Chemistry degree will be reading this and have the solution for us all.

In the meantime may i suggest that anyone planning on buying a blue-dialed watch described as ' a little dirty with a few marks around the batons' beware!

I myself have just taken a chance on a c.1260 'cone' with a black dial which looks a bit iffy from the pics..but you never know


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## foztex (Nov 6, 2005)

Hmm, I wonder if the thick paint is hygroscopic? all bubbled thick paint dials I have seen look as though the watch has been flooded at some time yet the movements are fine and appear not to have been changed.

I also suspect there is something in the paint that is released by its absorbtion of humidity and attacks the dial metal creating an oxide that swells and causes the damage. An acid perhaps used to give it good adherence. When the paint is wet this would attack the dial metal to give a rough surface to bond to .

Another cause perhaps is that the compound used to give the blue colour is too easily reactive. Maybe absorbing moisture and becoming an electrolyte. Again causing oxidisation.

If you look at my blistered dial close-up you can see what looks like some sort of copper 'ide or 'ate on the dial edge.

Andy


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Ok,,, 3 different problems here AFAIK...

1, Painted dials can grow warts... thick porous paint on a steel dial gets moisture under it and it lifts the paint... hmm, im not convinced that they didnt just arrive textured from new...

2, Cracks can occur on some finishes... seems to affect black and dark blue dials that are painted - could just be one manufacturer that did a bad job. My watchguy said it was probably heat/cold that did this. Bizarrely they dont seem to flake, just crack and its random... ie doesnt follow contours...

3, some of the dials that look like they started as brushed finishes which could then be annodised (not painted) tend to get eaten by tritium lume..


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## foztex (Nov 6, 2005)

JonW said:


> Ok,,, 3 different problems here AFAIK...
> 
> 1, Painted dials can grow warts... thick porous paint on a steel dial gets moisture under it and it lifts the paint... hmm, im not convinced that they didnt just arrive textured from new...


I think they are textured when new Jon, a less extreme version of my 214 I imagine. Perhaps the texture adds to the problem by increasing the surface area of the paint.

Andy


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

We agree... Im saying they were textured from new... the warts could have been there from new...


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## foztex (Nov 6, 2005)

JonW said:


> We agree... Im saying they were textured from new... the warts could have been there from new...


No I dont think the warts were there from new. Have another look at this photo.










you can see the nice 'sugary' original texture of the dial, the warts are definitely lifting of the paint, it's out of focus but the edge of the dial shows a turquoise deposit which is lifting the paint.

I will see if I can dig out that dial and pick the paint off one of the warts, I would expect to see that same turquoise deposit underneath them.

Andy


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## Absolute (Jan 20, 2008)

foztex said:


> as an aside, the f300 dials that do seem to have longevity are the simple geneves
> 
> 
> 
> ...


way cool


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