# Citizen Spacemaster



## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

This is my first post to this forum and I thank Roy for providing it.

I've had a Citizen Spacemaster AB5000-54E since 1999. The 3 year warranty did me no good except ensuring that the watch lasted 3 years - just. After 18 months when I suspect the battery reached its lower voltage limit, the watch stopped. A new battery stirred it into action but most functions did not work including the radio control function, no sound, no lights, no singing, no dancing!!

It duly went back to Citizen and was returned working perfectly. Lo and behold just after the warranty had expired, the same thing happened again. I replaced the battery with the same effect as the first time. It has been in the drawer since.

I have not contacted Citizen yet, I suppose I could but do not feel inclined to pay them for a repair in the circumstances.

I know that the purists could regard radio control as "cheating", I suppose it is, especially in view of the fact that such watches can not work all over the globe. For an accuracy freak like me though, they are brilliant, in fact nearly as good as my Bulova Accutrons!!

Can anyone help with the problem (with the watch, that is, not my being an accuracy freak!!). What would be Citizens reaction to my returning the watch, or is there a way of "rebooting" the electronics, which I suspect is the answer.

Regards and thanks

Peter


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## DavidH (Feb 24, 2003)

Hi Peter

It sounds complicated .

Just a suggestion, have you looked inside it? Is there a reset button inside or maybe a sequence/ code with its external buttons?

Or if all else fails, you could read the instructions.

If it is powering up then it probably isn't broke but waiting for something.

Surely Citizen wouldn't have built in this feature to get a few quid out of you every 3 years.

BTW, I know absolutely nothing about electronics, More of a hammer and screwdriver man!

Wouldn't mind seeing your Accutron. Mine is posted somewhere in the archive.


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## Fred (Feb 23, 2003)

Hi peterjacko, and welcome. i would like to see your Accutrons also,please post some photo's. don't see why you should think radio control is cheating,every one to his own. don't know how to help with Citizen,maybe Roy has some ideas, cheers fred.


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## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

David,

Thanks for the reply. I have looked inside and can't find anything like a reset. How did you know I was an engineer an only read instructions as a last resort? I have to admit, though, that I have read these instructions several times, including those engraved on the inside of the case. I am emailing Citizen service at this moment with the aim of getting someone there to sympathise.

I have two Accutrons, a 214 N4 Spaceview (not the original strap but otherwise factory) and a 218 (unfortunately a marriage between case and movement, but what the hell!!). They are both working well. I will post photos when I have found out how to do it (I suppose I'll have to read the instructions for that as well).

The next most accurate timepiece I have is an 1850s longcase clock that I adjust about 10 seconds every month, no kidding!!

Regards

Peter


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## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

Fred,

Very nice Accutron. It is the style I would have preferred, being SS and more serviceable. I have still to photo mine and post them.

Regards

Peter


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Hello peter and welcome.

It's strange that this fault should occur twice and under the same circumstances.

The re-boot theory makes sense, I had a pager some years ago that started to display garbage, I called Motorola who told me that a servuce would cost Â£40. At the time I could get a new pager for that and so decided to "fix" it.

On opening it up I found a small cell that maintained the memory so I took it out for five minutes in the hope that it would clear the memory and reset. What do you know? It did.









I would try removing the battery form the watch for 24 hours in case there are any capacitors in there that need to drain to allow the watch to reset.

It may not work but it won't cost anything.


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## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

Stan,

Thanks for the suggestion. You have given me an idea. Although I have left the watch without the battery for a period at least more than 24 hours (it could have been weeks) I have not tried shorting the battery terminals with the battery out. I will try it and let you know. I have sent my enquiry to Citizen and I will post the results when I get them.

Regards

Peter


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Good luck.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Hello Peter,

On the watch movement there should be a small brass circle with the letters AC next to it. Shorting this with the + side of the battery may reset the movement.

It does on their other movements.

PS Welcome to the forum.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Hi Peter and welcome.

I know a guy called Peter Jackson lives in Peterborough, not you is it? Or are you the LOTR director?

Anyway I have a Citizen qtz multi chron cal 6850.

Instructions on that say after installing new battery short (AR) and (+) twice completley. the AR is a marked next to a little brass dot next to the battery on the movement.

Hope this is of help.


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## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

Roy,

I could not find the small brass circle you referred to, but I did notice two adjacent tracks with marks on them that suggested they had been shorted before. Under the principle "nothing ventured, nothing gained", I shorted them with the battery still installed. IT WORKED !! The watch is working perfectly.

Roy, I just needed the prompt and you gave me it. I can't thank you enough.

pgtips, I am neither of the people you know of, just another one of the many Peter Jacksons (I'm in West Yorkshire), but happier than many at this moment.

I will post photos for future reference.

Peter


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## DavidH (Feb 24, 2003)

peterjacko said:


> How did you know I was an engineer an only read instructions as a last resort?


 It's all in the training.

That is how I was taught to fix things!


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## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

Everyone,

I can confirm that my Spacemaster is working fine and I thank you all.

For future reference and in the spirit of the Forum, I reset the watch having removed the back by shorting two brass coloured tracks the position of which is best described as behind number one on the dial

DavidH and Fred, I don't seem to be able to attach pictures (Yes David, I've read the instructions again - pathetic!!) Can anyone help?

Regards

Peter


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Well done Peter, glad to be of help.









Your pictures will have to be hosted with a third part hosting company. There are loads on the web.


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## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

Roy,

I am not familiar with the method of uploading to these hosts. Can you give me a URL for instructions?

Peter


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Do you not have any free web space with your internet provider ?

Here is a free picture host : http://www.freepichosting.com

Just do a google search for others but using your own free space is always better.


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## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

DavidH and Fred,

Sorry about the Accutron photos, I have spent a lot of time with ftp programmes and such trying to upload pictures onto my web space (Yes David I've read the instructions and they are crap!! All goes to prove the engineer's principle because reading them rarely improves the problem). I just can't make it work and I have given up. Being a newbie user of the forum I am not allowed (quite rightly) to attach them to a post.

I got a reply from Citizen, by the way. They said "Perhaps the battery has died, send it back to us". Well I didn't know that a watch stopped working when the battery died, did you? And I didn't know that the first thing to do when a watch with a battery stopped working was to replace the battery, did you?

I am less than satisfied overall with Citizen service. When they received the watch back during the warranty period they probably just did the hard reset that I have done, which is fine. What they did not do, knowing that the same thing could happen again, was to let me know. My theory is that Citizen watches generally (to be fair) are so reliable that a faulty one takes them by surprise!!

Regards

Peter


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## Fred (Feb 23, 2003)

Hi peterkacko, glad you got your watch working again, i am sure you will sort the picture glitch soon, i have a Pulsar chrono,and it tells you in the case back to short the battery to a small stud on the movement after changing the battery, to reset all the other functions of the watch, pity Citizen didn't do the same. cheers fred.


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## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

DavidH and Fred,

Roy has kindly hosted my photos of my Accutrons and the Spacemaster, attached hereto. If anyone is interested in better images, please email me and I will do my best.

Regards

Peter


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## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

Fred,

A very nice Accutron you have.

When I had just bought my 218 on a famous auction site (I have since decided it is better to buy from a reputable dealer because it cost me a further 91 quid to have the watch serviced) I went to a local jeweller to get a SS bracelet. It was a delightful moment when the jeweller's assistant, probably born around the time the watch was made said "This is a very nice watch, isn't it?". I was quick to reply "Yes, it is about 30 years old and was the most accurate watch you could buy at the time, put it to your ear"

At the time these fantastic timepieces hit the market I was about 15 and by the time I was 18 and seen enough of the adverts, I desperately wanted one. Without the funds, I consoled myself with a Timex Electric, which was very good, and unusual without the visible crown. The distinctive "dual" tick of the watch was, I think unique. It had the sound of an ordinary watch movement, but also ticked every second when the second hand moved (which in itself was unusual, but now standard in modern quartz watches). But, by golly, that second hand hit the second marker spot on, unlike some not necessarily cheap quartz watches these days. It satisfied my lust for modern technology and my obsession with timepieces. Now I have been able to have a look back in time (excuse the pun!) and do it all again with more funds this time!. I have 3 Timex Electrics all working well.

Regards

Peter


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Peter,

You mentioned Timex electrics, bad move.







I love them.









I have only one, with a history related to our host.  Sort of.

I have just ordered an Accutron from Roy because of the possibility of finding a bad one on "that" auction site. I don't want a dodgy Accutron, I want one that has been serviced properly and will work with a currently available battery cell. 

I guess that's the right way to do it?

I love American watches.







I cannot explain why, but I do.

No collection of American watches could be complete without an Accutron, IMVHO.

( I also ordered another Wittnauer from Roy at the same time, don't tell my wife














)

I must get a Gruen (bought one for the wife, she loves it) and an Elgin, my next quest is for a good looking Hamilton.

With my new purchases I will have two Bulovas and two Wittnauers. All of vintage stock.

Am I happy? Yes, you can bet your most treasured posession I am.

I'm glad your Timex electrics are Ok, look after them.


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## Fred (Feb 23, 2003)

Hello peterjacko, very nice looking Accutrons,and i like the look of the Citizen as well, that's a new watch to me not seen one of them before,, Â£91 is a lot for a service, like any thing you get from ebay you have to ask the seller questions, i have got most of my watch's this way including one or two Accutrons, and you can allways pick up a lot of info from the Yahoo Accutron site, cheers fred.


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## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

Stan,

I thought Timex would have been frowned on in this forum, so I was surprised by your reply. Timex delivered modern technology at a very reasonable price. Were there any other makers giving us battery watches at the time as well as Bulova?

I actually have 4 Timex Electrics, all from the famous (or infamous) internet auction at very cheap prices. They all have electrically driven conventional movements, except one has the dual tick I described earlier and made in West Germany. The dual tick watch has the rear setting facility with no visible crown, the same as my original Timex. Unfortunately the dual tick watch stops after about an hours running. I suspect the seller knew about this.



> I love American watches. I cannot explain why, but I do.


Well, Stan its as well you don't have to explain why isn't it ? !!! I can't explain why I collect electrically powered timepieces, including clocks, but I do. One point is that it takes away the very large forces involved in springs. Another one is the satisfaction I get from preserving old things. (Starting with my own body!!!)

I think you are right about the Accutron, except that I would extend it to any watch collection. It is such an unusual and excellent design. The index wheel and the arms are just incredible (and not unlike the Favre-Bulle 1920's clock method of converting lateral movement into rotary)

The 218 Accutron is Swiss and I have to admit that I don't know the origin of the Spaceview.

Regards

Peter


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## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

Fred,

The tuning fork second hand on your Accutron is great.

The 91 included postage, but I still think it was a bit stiff. As far as I know there is only one reputable Accutron man in UK now (willing or able to do repairs, that is) and the price reflects that. Let me know if I am wrong.

I think you have to be a bit lucky to get a real bargain on Ebay. I have about 24 purchases from the site and have complete satisfaction from about half of them, and one absolute disaster.

Regards

Peter


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## DavidH (Feb 24, 2003)

http://www.rltwatches.co.uk/forums/index.p...552&hl=accutron

Peter,

You took me by surprise there. I was expecting to see a digital.

Those Accutrons are nice, well worth spending a few pounds on to put them right.

There is a diver too called a deep sea or sea star or something.


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## Fred (Feb 23, 2003)

Hi Peter, Roy used to do my sevicing for the Accutrons at half your price you paid, he does'nt service watch's now, and as yet not tried any one else as i had 4/5 done just as he stopped, there are 2/3 who advertize in the u.k. look at the Yahoo Accutron site, this is where you will pick up a lot of info re servicing and about the watch. I don't agree with you about ebay, i have had plenty of good buy's from there, from many country's using ebay.

The watch below was the first Accutron i bought, it now belongs to my son, it's what they call a converted spaceview [had the dial taken off] same as yours, i really liked that watch with it's isometric case shape, fred.

this should get you to Yahoo Accutron

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/accutrons/


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## Sargon (Feb 24, 2003)

A converted Spaceview was my first also. Here's a pic of the watch that got away. Twice! I'll always regret it, but seeing as you've got one there must be more out there.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Hi Peter,

I don't think anyone here would frown on a Timex electric. 

They were not exactly cheap when first marketed, around $40 in 1964. The movement has 11 jewels, I'm told, Timex watches were mostly non- jewelled pin pallet types at the time. I have seen a Swiss jewelled Timex on another site but I won't post the link as it is a watch seller's site.

I believe Timex made electric watches in Germany, the UK and France

Hamilton were the first company to market watches with an electricaly powered balance wheel, I think.

Other companys sold similar watches and I believe the Swiss also made this type of movement. It's getting hard to find information on this type of electric watch.









I agree about the Accutron, it would complement any watch collection.

I should be picking mine up tomorrow.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Looking forward to receiving my Timex electric. Roy is rebuilding it with Ian's case for me, nice man


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Ok Timex lovers, have a peek at this.









http://timex.homestead.com/electricdocuments.html


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## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

Looks like we've gone off topic, but carry on, its still interesting, maybe even more than boring old Citizen.

I did phone Roy before I sent my Accutron to Croydon, but he said he wasn't doing servicing any more. He came highly recommended, so I was VERY disappointed.

Fred, thanks for the link to Yahoo, I am sure I've been there before, but not kept up with it due to working one's butt off recently. I don't think my son would appreciate an Accutron, he's more into living for the moment and to heck with the past!!

You have to be very carefull on Ebay. My very first purchase of an old Bulle electric clock was a disaster that took about 4 months to sort out with little help from Ebay, or SquareTrade for that matter.

Stan, thanks for the info on electrics. Two of my Timex Electrics are marked Taiwan, one is anonymous and the other West Germany. Interestingly, one of the Taiwan watches has a dial marked "DIAL ENGLAND" as though that made it better!!

May I be the first to wish you happy Accutron for tomorrow!!

Spaceview convertions are great if done properly, but there are some nasty ones around, the poor things almost pleading to have their dials put back!

Peter


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## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

Thanks for the Timex link, Stan - Great!!


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

I serviced some of those Timex's for Alan (The site owner) a few years ago. I think there is a mention of me some where on that site, fame at last. Not.


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## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

Less of the modesty, Roy. You had fame already in your own right


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

You flatter me,


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Thanks Peter,









I hadn't seen an electric that was made in Taiwan









That's something else I've learned about Timex electrics, which is good as there is so little information available.


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## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

09.05.43 GMT. My Citizen Spacemaster stopped. In the words of Citizen service "The battery may have died". I'll try another before I give up hope completely.


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## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

The new CR2016 battery is is installed in the Spacemaster and it it running OK. The old battery measures 2.94 volts off load, although I wouldn't have thought being on load would make much difference since the load is very small. I know it probably depends on the watch, but does anyone know if low battery was likely to have been the problem?


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Could be Peter. When car remote alarm fobs play up we measure the battery voltage. If it's less than 3 we normally find new batteris are the answer.


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## peterjacko (Jan 10, 2004)

Thanks pg. I have been looking at lithium cell voltage characteristics on the internet, and as far as I can tell the voltage levels off just below 3 during most of its life, but this depends on the load and the temperature. I suppose the voltage of the old cell could have risen slightly after I removed it.

Anyway, I'll know when the new cell "dies"

Peter


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