# Fake Rolex scams



## xellos99 (Dec 17, 2015)

Apparently there are quite convincing fakes now in the UK with box and warranty cards.

One was sold in a well known buy-back store for £4k, here is a pic of the fake warranty card.

Anyone know about this ?


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## Markrlondon (Feb 20, 2009)

I know I wouldn't buy any such item from the likes of 'DoshGeneratorConverters' (or other similar names). As Haywood has demonstrated, the risk is too high although paying by credit card or buying at a distance offers protection as long as you can spot a fake when you actually have it in your hands. The need to open up the case and look at the movement cannot be overstated.


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

I believe that some of the `Replica' sites also offer replica boxes and papers (replica also means fake). If they can make the watches look realistic then why not go the whole hog?

All just makes the used watch market even more of a minefield.


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

Annoyingly Scary.


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## xellos99 (Dec 17, 2015)

RWP said:


> Annoyingly Scary.


 Yea the guy who bought it did not know. He tried to sell it to a shop and they pointed out the flaws to him


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

When buying expensive items like this from a non-expert source it's sometimes worth attempting to contact the original buyer. In the above case a quick Internet search suggests that the address shown on the warranty card may not be entirely accurate. That would start alarm bells ringing for me.


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## Markrlondon (Feb 20, 2009)

rhaythorne said:


> When buying expensive items like this from a non-expert source it's sometimes worth attempting to contact the original buyer. In the above case a quick Internet search suggests that the address shown on the warranty card may not be entirely accurate. That would start alarm bells ringing for me.


 Good suggestion.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

I'll bet there's more to this story than meets the eye.


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## graham1981 (Jan 1, 2016)

Did I hear somewhere that if you take a fake Rolex, just as an example, to a Rolex dealer to have it serviced or whatever they are within their rights to confiscate it as it is counterfeit goods? Or is this completely wrong?


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

graham1981 said:


> Did I hear somewhere that if you take a fake Rolex, just as an example, to a Rolex dealer to have it serviced or whatever they are within their rights to confiscate it as it is counterfeit goods? Or is this completely wrong?


 I highly doubt it. No civilian has that kind of authority over someone else's property. Being an AD doesn't some how give them authority. They can call the police if they want though.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

All this stuff applies to other brands but nobody clued up should ever have a problem with Rolex.

I would be happy to purchase a Rolex anytime Monday-Friday working hours from ANYONE. The reason? Its because I would always disconnect the strap at 6 o'clock and phone through the serial number to Rolex who would give me the history and status of the watch.

This unique security feature is why "hot" or dodgy Rolexes have virtually no value. It is just too easy to determine.

I would also for my own benifit want some ID off the seller.


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## graham1981 (Jan 1, 2016)

hughlle said:


> I highly doubt it. No civilian has that kind of authority over someone else's property. Being an AD doesn't some how give them authority. They can call the police if they want though.


 That's what I was thinking, can't for the life of me remember where I heard/ read it now :wacko:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

graham1981 said:


> Did I hear somewhere that if you take a fake Rolex, just as an example, to a Rolex dealer to have it serviced or whatever they are within their rights to confiscate it as it is counterfeit goods? Or is this completely wrong?


 There are very few people who can legally relieve you of your property but some busty dolly bird behind the counter of Goldsmiths definitely isn't one of them

:laugh: :laugh:


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Normally the shop buying phones through the number. Rolex then says "we will ring you back" if the watch is OK you get a call back... if it is connected to a robbery the police arrive instead.


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## graham1981 (Jan 1, 2016)

I'm definitely getting conflicting views on Google over confiscation of fake Rolex. Some say as hughlle did that they can't as it is your property, which makes sense to me, but something was niggling me and having a dig around others say they can confiscate as fake Rolex's are in affect theft of intellectual(?) property, i.e. all of the registered trademarks they are using on the watch have been 'stolen'. All of the articles I read however do agree that if it is sent to Rolex for repair they will destroy it.

All in all I wouldn't chance and would rather have the real thing anyway :biggrin:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Unless you were to personally send it to Rolex I doubt very much if it would even get that far.

There is a load of urban myth about this sort of thing but I seriously doubt anybody that really knows what they are looking at would be fooled. That's not to say it never happens but I doubt if it's as common as it's made out to be or that these fakes are as good as they are said to be.


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

graham1981 said:


> I'm definitely getting conflicting views on Google over confiscation of fake Rolex. Some say as hughlle did that they can't as it is your property, which makes sense to me, but something was niggling me and having a dig around others say they can confiscate as fake Rolex's are in affect theft of intellectual(?) property, i.e. all of the registered trademarks they are using on the watch have been 'stolen'. All of the articles I read however do agree that if it is sent to Rolex for repair they will destroy it.
> 
> All in all I wouldn't chance and would rather have the real thing anyway :biggrin:


 And in any theft of IP it has to go through a court system. They can write threatening letters and all the like, but they are civilians, they have zero legal authority to enforce any threat. Otherwise they'd just go down the market and start filling up a carrier bag with fake watches. Doesn't happen because legally they can't.

As to confisctaion, that is most likely to occur at customs.


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## gimli (Mar 24, 2016)

I wonder if anyone ever sent (without knowing) a fake Rolex to repair at an official store/shop and they didn't realize it was fake or anything. Would be hella funny!


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

You don't need to send it... often they know over the phone based on the number and description of the watch.

All but the most convincing fakes (and I am talking stolen gold genuine Rolex case with fake movement) should be obvious to a main Rolex agent.  They simply would refuse to take such a watch for repair.


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## Markrlondon (Feb 20, 2009)

BondandBigM said:


> I'll bet there's more to this story than meets the eye.


 The full story is here: http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?366169-Another-FAKE-Rolex-sold-by-a-quot-buy-back-quot-store-now-with-warranty-card


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## ong (Jul 31, 2008)

When I took my real Sub to the AD for onwards sending to Rolex , they took quite a good look at it through a Loupe.

No doubt this would have sorted the wheat from the chaff although not sure what they would have done.


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## Markrlondon (Feb 20, 2009)

graham1981 said:


> Did I hear somewhere that if you take a fake Rolex, just as an example, to a Rolex dealer to have it serviced or whatever they are within their rights to confiscate it as it is counterfeit goods? Or is this completely wrong?


 No, completely wrong. They have no right whatsoever to confiscate your property in this way in the UK, not even if it is counterfeit.

But if they have reason to believe that the watch is stolen (e.g. if it's on their lost/stolen register) then they legally can and will retain it pending investigation. This is a different case entirely to the counterfeit situation above.



graham1981 said:


> but something was niggling me and having a dig around others say they can confiscate as fake Rolex's are in affect theft of intellectual(?) property, i.e. all of the registered trademarks they are using on the watch have been 'stolen'.


 No, this is completely wrong. To repeat, Rolex (nor anyone else, apart from the legal authorities such as the courts) have no legal right whatsoever in the UK to seize property in this fashion.

The situation where they believe the specific watch to be stolen is legally completely different and in that case they legally can and will retain the watch in order to return it to its rightful owner (whoever that happens to be).



Daveyboyz said:


> I would be happy to purchase a Rolex anytime Monday-Friday working hours from ANYONE. The reason? Its because I would always disconnect the strap at 6 o'clock and phone through the serial number to Rolex who would give me the history and status of the watch.
> 
> This unique security feature is why "hot" or dodgy Rolexes have virtually no value. It is just too easy to determine.


 Are you a Rolex AD? If not, then calling Rolex won't get you very far. This is because they removed public access to their lost/stolen register a couple of years ago. Now it is only ADs and the police who are able to access the lost/stolen register.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Markrlondon said:


> The full story is here: http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?366169-Another-FAKE-Rolex-sold-by-a-quot-buy-back-quot-store-now-with-warranty-card


 Interesting but the old cynic in me still thinks that there is almost certainly more to the story.

As I'm fond of saying what my old mother used to repeat time and time again, there's three sides to every story.

Yours, theirs and the truth

:laugh: :laugh:


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## Markrlondon (Feb 20, 2009)

BondandBigM said:


> Interesting but the old cynic in me still thinks that there is almost certainly more to the story.
> 
> As I'm fond of saying what my old mother used to repeat time and time again, there's three sides to every story.
> 
> ...


 Not sure what else might be missing.

We haven't heard directly from Haywood Milton's customer, of course, but even if we had it would be unlikely that he'd contradict what Haywood said. ;-) It seems quite plausible to me that the customer bought the watch in good faith from the 'buy back' store who themselves probably had no idea they had bought a fake from someone else.

There's the risk: Non-expert shops like this don't have the expertise to spot a good fake like this one. As for myself, I'd never have realised that it was a fake, other than perhaps via the warranty card.

Of course it could be argued that Haywood has self-interest in promoting the idea that such stores are unreliable places to buy high end watches but that doesn't mean that anything of importance has been left out of this story. ;-)


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Markrlondon said:


> We haven't heard directly from Haywood Milton's customer, of course, but even if we had it would be unlikely that he'd contradict what Haywood said.


 :laugh: :laugh:

So we've got one out of three

:biggrin:


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Wow... I was a pawnbroker for years but not been in that field recently...

I was unaware so its a big disappointment that they withdrew that service - that feature was one of the best things about Rolex.


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## Markrlondon (Feb 20, 2009)

Daveyboyz said:


> Wow... I was a pawnbroker for years but not been in that field recently...
> 
> I was unaware so its a big disappointment that they withdrew that service - that feature was one of the best things about Rolex.


 Yup, it seems very shortsighted in my opinion.

In the short/medium term it benefits ADs (and their second hand customers) at the expense of everyone else but in the slightly longer term I suspect that the Rolex lost/stolen register will itself simply become less useful.

I understand that the SaferGems register has partly replaced Rolex's register for the vast majority who are not Rolex ADs but even this is not directly available to the public.


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## gimli (Mar 24, 2016)

Markrlondon said:


> Yup, it seems very shortsighted in my opinion.
> 
> In the short/medium term it benefits ADs (and their second hand customers) at the expense of everyone else but in the slightly longer term I suspect that the Rolex lost/stolen register will itself simply become less useful.
> 
> I understand that the SaferGems register has partly replaced Rolex's register for the vast majority who are not Rolex ADs but even this is not directly available to the public.


 Maybe they pulled it out so that "bad people" would not be able to, somehow, take advantage of such bits of information... You never know how it might be of use to some con-man...


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## Markrlondon (Feb 20, 2009)

gimli said:


> Maybe they pulled it out so that "bad people" would not be able to, somehow, take advantage of such bits of information... You never know how it might be of use to some con-man...


 Possibly although my view is that its loss to the law abiding will in net terms do more harm than good. And better organised criminals will still have access via friendly ADs anyway.

It's a bit like changing small design details in watches all the time. This actually benefits counterfeiters because most people have no way of knowing if the latest tiny change is legit or an error by a counterfeiter. Only experts will know, but experts are not always available.

In short, ignorance never helps anyone in net terms other than the criminals.


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## gimli (Mar 24, 2016)

Yeah, what you're saying is also true. The world of watches is perhaps one of the most complicated and complex I've ever seen.

You can have one model, just one, and yet have different types of movements (mainly talking about vintage watches), slight design changes here and there and many other things that make 2 or more watches different despite being built only a few years apart.

Sometimes, the fact that there are so many plausible combinations on a watch makes it so complicated...

Bottom line is, do your research thoroughly, especially when it comes to highly counterfeited brands and be careful, if the price is too good, maybe you need to walk away.


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## bobbymonks (Jan 13, 2009)

Daveyboyz said:


> All this stuff applies to other brands but nobody clued up should ever have a problem with Rolex.
> 
> I would be happy to purchase a Rolex anytime Monday-Friday working hours from ANYONE. The reason? Its because I would always disconnect the strap at 6 o'clock and phone through the serial number to Rolex who would give me the history and status of the watch.
> 
> ...


 Except they (Rolex) wouldn't
Their lost / stolen register is only available to ADs, the public service was withdrawn several years ago.
Unless of course you are an AD, or have a friendly one that could phone it through on your behalf



Daveyboyz said:


> You don't need to send it... often they know over the phone based on the number and description of the watch.
> 
> All but the most convincing fakes (and I am talking stolen gold genuine Rolex case with fake movement) should be obvious to a main Rolex agent. They simply would refuse to take such a watch for repair.


 Only if the AD has a resident watchmaker, your average AD is not going to take the back off to take a look, they just forward it on to RSC


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Since making the comment I have been informed that the lost/stolen register has been discontinued... but the serial number is under the strap, and an AD handles so many genuine watches that a fake will generally stand out like a sore thumb to them and set alarm bells ringing without the need to remove the back.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

The easiest spot is surely that on cheper to medium cost fakes, lots have the same serial number? :yes:

All of mi- - -Ooopzs :bash:


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Certain serial numbers are known to be fake... not sure if there is any easy source for this information since the withdrawal of the Rolex hotline.

My point about AD are that they should know the in's and out's of their product far more thoroughly than the average Joe, regular handling of the real thing is the best training for spotting the imitation. As a vendor they shouldn't want to confiscate goods (presumably they have no legal right and would seek to avoid a conflict) but if you gave them a fake to repair I am sure most would give it back with the news it isn't real. An independent might even undertake the work on a fake watch but on the basis that it is a fake. The last thing they would want is to take a watch, send it for repair and on giving it back to the customer be accused of switching it for a fake.

The OP post about the certification and paperwork might have some people taken in, but I think you need to judge every item on the item not on the papers etc. If I stick a label on a piece of glass saying "diamond" it doesn't instantly become diamond... and this fact is well known in numismatics (buy the coin not the plastic holding it) and antiques (just because something has a name on it doesn't mean they made it)

Box and papers is used as a topic of negotiation but within the trade doesn't make much difference really... nice to have but not a deal breaker.


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