# Grand Seiko



## Cnjm1 (Aug 25, 2017)

Recently I've had more and more of a hankering for a GS. I got to handle a SBGM023J GMT. Really great build quality and fantastic watch. Apart from servicing problems having to send watch to Japan, I can't justify spending close to 5k on a Seiko, even if it's Grand.

Has as anyone else got or like them?


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## ab20000 (Aug 9, 2017)

I quite like them but not for that money I'm afraid. That's Omega / IWC money and personally would go for one of these in the (hypothetical) situation I had this much to spend on a watch.


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

Cnjm1 said:


> Recently I've had more and more of a hankering for a GS. I got to handle a SBGM023J GMT. Really great build quality and fantastic watch. Apart from servicing problems having to send watch to Japan, I can't justify spending close to 5k on a Seiko, even if it's Grand.
> 
> Has as anyone else got or like them?


 I have the SBGX103 which is the 20th anniversary quartz and it is great quality although many might baulk at the cost on the basis of Seiko and Quartz.

Seiko see the GS range as a showcase of what they can achieve and only make them in relatively small numbers rather than aiming to compete with the big Swiss brands.

Maybe in the end it comes down to what you value most - quality or name.


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## Ptgrav (Jun 4, 2017)

I have a vintage GS, it's lovely.


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## reggie747 (Sep 10, 2013)

Yes, I think they're pretty good.


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## Fredamens (Aug 7, 2017)

reggie747 said:


> Yes, I think they're pretty good.


That is lovely. What are you thoughts in regard to the quality compared to Rolex for instance? I'm yet to handle a GS but love the looks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## stolid (Aug 21, 2009)

richy176 said:


> *I have the SBGX103* which is the 20th anniversary quartz and it is great quality although many might baulk at the cost on the basis of Seiko and Quartz.
> 
> Seiko see the GS range as a showcase of what they can achieve and only make them in relatively small numbers rather than aiming to compete with the big Swiss brands.
> 
> Maybe in the end it comes down to what you value most - quality or name.


 I just Googled this: *Wow!* Pictures please!


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## kosumi (Sep 15, 2017)

Cnjm1 said:


> I can't justify spending close to 5k on a Seiko, even if it's Grand.


 With my limited watch knowledge and history, I tend to agree. The quality is high but I am not sure about the brand value. I think it would be wiser of them from marketing point of view had they created a luxury brand with a completely new name instead of Grand Seiko.


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## Robden (Apr 2, 2016)

Ptgrav said:


> I have a vintage GS, it's lovely.


 Is the above a homage to an earlier Citizen?


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

kosumi said:


> With my limited watch knowledge and history, I tend to agree. The quality is high but I am not sure about the brand value. I think it would be wiser of them from marketing point of view had they created a luxury brand with a completely new name instead of Grand Seiko.


 These were made for the home market and maybe they are not so bothered about brand image as we are in the Western world. They started to supply other countries following requests from their authorised dealers. It is hard to judge if they hold value as so few appear on the used market.


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

kosumi said:


> With my limited watch knowledge and history, I tend to agree. The quality is high but I am not sure about the brand value. I think it would be wiser of them from marketing point of view had they created a luxury brand with a completely new name instead of Grand Seiko.


 What you mean like Credor?


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## Fredamens (Aug 7, 2017)

Ptgrav said:


> I have a vintage GS, it's lovely.


I like that, what is the version number and the size. Also what sort of money do these go for?

Cheers

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kosumi (Sep 15, 2017)

richy176 said:


> These were made for the home market and maybe they are not so bothered about brand image as we are in the Western world. They started to supply other countries following requests from their authorised dealers. It is hard to judge if they hold value as so few appear on the used market.


 I see, thanks for the information.



ZenArcade said:


> What you mean like Credor?


 I just Google'd and learnt it thanks to you


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

kosumi said:


> I see, thanks for the information.
> 
> I just Google'd and learnt it thanks to you


 As an indication - on Chrono24 today there are just 202 Grand Seiko for sale and most of those are from the USA whereas for Rolex there are over 61,000 and even for the sub there are 4,154.


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## JIMMYNo1 (Oct 14, 2016)

Cnjm1 said:


> Recently I've had more and more of a hankering for a GS. I got to handle a SBGM023J GMT. Really great build quality and fantastic watch. Apart from servicing problems having to send watch to Japan, I can't justify spending close to 5k on a Seiko, even if it's Grand.
> 
> Has as anyone else got or like them?


 I think your final statement sums it up and puts it to bed nicely. When alls said and done its always going to be a Seiko and for me the brand (even in its Grand guise) just doesn't inspire or excite in the way that the top swiss brands do. I just couldn't do it. I think you really really have to love the brand in order to justify it. Maybe the Japanese are fans of them?



kosumi said:


> With my limited watch knowledge and history, I tend to agree. The quality is high but I am not sure about the brand value. I think it would be wiser of them from marketing point of view had they created a luxury brand with a completely new name instead of Grand Seiko.


 Interesting point. Toyota created Lexus as their luxury brand. Honda were rebranded acura in the US to help sales.


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## wrenny1969 (Jun 24, 2008)

Can't deny the engineering excellence. Attracts a different kind of consumer maybe.

Car analogy might be Ford GT.


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## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

Not a grand Seiko but just got the SBDB011 spring drive marine Master GMT. Can't speak to the one you're looking at but mine retailed for about 4500 so must be similar in quality, no? Luckily I bought mine slightly used for almost half that.

I'd say, only based on mine, they are nowhere near the money. Unless the GS are so much better. The reason I say this is because of the poorly designed dial and cheap clasps. The applied indices appear to come up through the bottom of the dial. It looks as though they were slightly too big and the high gloss enamel looking dial around those markers bends up around each. That catches lighting at angles and creates major glare making it illegible. This is a constant issue during daylight hours. Indoor lighting, other than LED, isn't too much of an issue. Also the Bezel rotates way too easily. Based on these 3 issues I'd say mine is worth closer to under a quarter the original cost.

Now, those points, possibly separating mine from the one your looking at, aside, I still say no Seiko is ever worth that kind of money. I say this because the name is diluted by the cheap Seiko 5 sports stuff they sell. Most people paying that kind of money, like me, wants recognition of that value. Seiko is recognition of nothing other than solid built cheapo watches. And there's nothing wrong with that if that's what you've got. But I pay that kind of money, the name better be synonymous with the elites, like Rolex, Omega, IWC etc.

Anyway, just my take. I do think you'll like, maybe even love, the watch. But enough so to match 5000... I sure wouldn't think so. But maybe you don't want others knowing your watch is that classy. Maybe you want incognito.

I'm off the mind, if you want something that simply looks cool or nice but recognition means nothing to you, then buy a Fossil or something trendy like Nixon.


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## Kaeru (Jul 4, 2017)

JIMMYNo1 said:


> Interesting point. Toyota created Lexus as their luxury brand. Honda were rebranded acura in the US to help sales.


 True, and bear in mind that Lexus cars were still labeled as Toyotas in Japan until only a few years ago.

So I suppose it's plausible that in Japan rebranding a product from an established, quality company without using the original name somewhere might be risky.

It would make sense why the generally risk-averse Japanese would want to keep the "Seiko" in the name. Even though it's a big turnoff in the international market.


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## Senninha (Nov 29, 2012)

Recently it seems Seiko are trying to rebrand. The brand in Japan is perceived very differently than elsewhere in the world, as was commented above with Lexus. In Japan they don't need to use the brand Lexus, but for Europe, US 'Toyota' won't work as luxury. So too with watches, Seiko is perceived differently in Japan. But looks rather than making a different brand name, Seiko are trying to use same name world-wide, but opening many of the Japan only models (like 'Cocktail Time') to the world markets. We'll see how it goes, but at least for me I think the GS models are excellent, on a par with Swiss at the same price point. Styling is in the eye of the beholder, as with everything.

I must say the anniversary model mentioned above is lovely, and I like the vintage one too. I hope they go from strength to strength - we need some diversity. A pity to see everything eventually under LVMH or other other such umbrella brand houses - nothing against that, but diversity is good


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## reggie747 (Sep 10, 2013)

JIMMYNo1 said:


> I just couldn't do it. I think you really really have to love the brand in order to justify it.


 It depends if you're buying a name or you're buying a watch. Only you can let us know that one.


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## JIMMYNo1 (Oct 14, 2016)

Well to a degree i think everyone is buying into a brand. Take the brand off any modern diver and you're left with a generic non discript time piece. If they all look very similar and the movements are similar then what is there between them. Ill be the first to admit that i do fall foul of brand snobbery to some degree.



reggie747 said:


> It depends if you're buying a name or you're buying a watch. Only you can let us know that one.


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## reggie747 (Sep 10, 2013)

JIMMYNo1 said:


> Well to a degree i think everyone is buying into a brand. Take the brand off any modern diver and you're left with a generic non discript time piece. If they all look very similar and the movements are similar then what is there between them. Ill be the first to admit that i do fall foul of brand snobbery to some degree.


 I admire a watch because I like the look of it, the personal aesthetic appeal is what initially peaks for me. Then, obviously the cost perspective raises it's head. If I have to do without other life trimmings then I will do in order to achieve what I want. The name on the front only plays a small part for me. The middle part of your statement about the movements being similar is too true also :biggrin: (Well....except for the Spring Drive maybe.....?)


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## WH9 (Oct 19, 2017)

I think they're beautiful, I see nothing wrong with a brand that releases products at different price points. I don't own one personally myself but I would snap one up instantly if I was in the market for a watch priced around the 5000 mark.


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## Dave955i (Apr 5, 2016)

Good afternoon,

I have had my Grand Seiko for over three years and it is always a delight to wear it. The quality in my view is unsurpassed at the price although my Grand seiko is the 9F Quartz model and cost £2,000 at the time.

Take a look at the pinnacle of mechanical watchmaking by horahalus on the Internet to see how well these handmade watches view under the loupe.

Thanks for reading

Dave


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks Dave, very interesting article. The comment about archieluxury made me laugh. He did a "review" of the Seiko Presage I bought earlier this week. His general persona nearly put me off buying the watch! :laugh:


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## Buuk (Apr 15, 2017)

I'd love a Spring Drive GS, if only for the movement. So much more exclusive (here in the UK at least) than the more common mid range Swiss offerings with ground-breaking technology inside.


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## mitadoc (Sep 25, 2010)

They are amazing. I had one. Earlier this year.

Great details, supernatural finish and lines. But, GS customer service is awful. Period.

I wanted to have the watch serviced and polished/brushed and to be returned to factory condition. Well, that seemed to be an impossible task.

Seiko AD here responded that they didn`t even touch GS. They told me to call to Netherlands as their AD was bigger and better.

The Dutch chaps told me that they could service it,but if anything would occur, they wouldn`t be able to repair the watch as no having any parts in stock so I should wait.

Furthermore, they made me aware that they didn`t do the immaculate Zaratsu polishing/brushing ( you know - the Katana special finish of GS) and only 2 old chaps ( Masters of Zaratsu polishing probably?) did it in Japan and the watch had to be sent there for 2 months. I was quoted 450 GBP for the Zaratsu pleasure and 550 GBP for the service of the watch. Well, this put me off.

But , again - amazing design, quality and pleasure to hold it in your hands.

Just my humble opinion, mates.

Cheers

Dimi


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