# Junghans J30bz Cockpit Clock



## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Some of you may have seen this topic that I posted a few days ago. :blink:

Junghans J30bz Cockpit Clock believed to have come from a WWII Messerschmitt Bf 109. They were made between 1942 and 1945

After struggling a bit with a few steel screws corroded in 65 year old aluminium, and working out how to get the movement out of the case, the rest was plain sailing.

What a lovely chronograph clock movement (looks like a Seiko 6139 / 6139 :lol: )! It was only seized with hardened grease, so once it was stripped down and thoroughly cleaned, reassembled and lubricated, it sprang into life and is now running about +/- 3 sec /day. I spent a bit of time sympathetically cleaning up the case without stripping off the faded original paint. Same with the screws and the ?acrylic? crystal; I could only really clean & polish the outside of it as I didn't want to run the risk of upsetting that inner bezel with those huge dollops of lume.

Bit surprised at the crystal...I'd have expected mineral glass but this one is some type of plastic...?? I love this clock and now want one of my own. 

Photo of the dial side. Shows the lever mechanism that either engages the winding mechanism (lever in) or the hand setting (lever out). The large brass button starts the chrono, stops the chrono, resets the chrono...you just keep pressing it to cysle through those 3 functions.










Photo of the chrono side.










Photo of the dial.










Photo of the case.










Photo of the finished clock.


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## mjolnir (Jan 3, 2006)

I think these things are brilliant. I'd love to have a cockpit clock sat on my desk.

Size wise, is it about 80mm or so or is it bigger and being from the 1940s will that be tritium lume then?

I bet Rich could put a nice strap together for something like this


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## PhilM (Nov 5, 2004)

Now that is something special IMO :yes: just wish it was mine


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

OMFG I need one of those!!! WOW!!!

Not tritium I expect its Radium as the B-Uhrs were... nasty stuff... http://www.mun.ca/biology/scarr/Radium_Wat...l_Painters.html


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

found one...


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

JonW said:


> found one...


 That was quick...and it looks like I have the opportunity to acquire this one  at least I know its had a good service 

They don't seem to go for as much as I expected:

Finished Auction

And many seem to be missing the rear steel cover as in photo below:


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Yeah I was pleasently suprised, I will bid on a few and see how I go... cheers for the heads up on the back cover


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## Alexus (Apr 9, 2003)

mjolnir said:


> I think these things are brilliant. I'd love to have a cockpit clock sat on my desk.
> 
> Size wise, is it about 80mm or so or is it bigger and being from the 1940s will that be tritium lume then?
> 
> I bet Rich could put a nice strap together for something like this


I picked this one up specifically to showcase on my desk and love it...


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Thr british ones are easily recognisable, they have a small pool of oil under them  :lol:


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## spankone (Sep 17, 2008)

very cool clock


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Well,if this is going to be a 'get your clocks out' thread, then heres mine...

Smiths Spitfire clock...


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## Flashharry (Feb 20, 2007)

Paul

that is stunning, if you don't want it, I would love to give it a good home.


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## Rinaldo1711 (Apr 11, 2007)

JonW said:


> Thr british ones are easily recognisable, they have a small pool of oil under them  :lol:


Careful now


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

hee hee, well just keeping it light and thought Paul would chime in  :lol: Ive never owned a British bike so wouldnt know, nor a harley... My prefered make is Austrian :huh: and they dont leak...

Anyway back to clocks... Jase I bloomin love the spit clock, I have my eye on one of those as well... h34r:


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Right Mr Silver Hawk... you enabler... I have one on the way... eek.... LOL


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

JonW said:


> Right Mr Silver Hawk... you enabler... I have one on the way... eek.... LOL


You're mad Jon. :tongue2:

Can I interest you in one of these?


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Ive always said that if you scratch an omega logo on it and I'll buy... h34r: :huh: 

Actually I didnt win the auction... it didnt make reserve... sigh... LOL


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)




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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Luckily I know my ****... its a fake. you can tell by the logo... phew. saved my cash


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## Zessa (Apr 9, 2008)

Just as well I'm on my way to Africa!

I've been inspired by Pauls success. My Dad has his fathers (ex WWII Spitfire pilot) old Spitfire mission clock. Not working but after timkering with a few mechanicals, I'm ready to have a go! Looking forward to picking it up in the next week or so.

I hope this does not mean a new direction for me









Regards

Mike


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## klaus (Feb 18, 2009)

Silver Hawk said:


> Some of you may have seen this topic that I posted a few days ago. :blink:
> 
> Junghans J30bz Cockpit Clock believed to have come from a WWII Messerschmitt Bf 109. They were made between 1942 and 1945
> 
> ...


Those clocks are common german planes cockpit ones. This is the most common version, made after the war too, for civilian and for foreign civilian planes too.

There were many different models of military cockpit clocks in the german Luftwaffe. At least 9 models, some with different versions (and some transitional "mixed" ones).

This is the FL23885, the only chrono model used by the Luftwaffe, fifth version. This version is the only one with 15 minute counter: all the other versions have the 30 minute counter.

Only very few german cockpit clocks had glass or crystal glasses: the most of them have perpex ones, much more sturdy. Only the earliest models used glass or crystal.

Infact, it is very difficult to find a german clock without the original glass or with a replaced one. It is much more difficult to find a intere british clock with the original glass, not cracked and perfect at all.


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

klaus said:


> Those clocks are common german planes cockpit ones. This is the most common version, made after the war too, for civilian and for foreign civilian planes too.
> 
> There were many different models of military cockpit clocks in the german Luftwaffe. At least 9 models, some with different versions (and some transitional "mixed" ones).
> 
> ...


Hi Klaus, welcome to the Forum!

Many thanks for this extra information. The "glass" on this one is acrylic / perspex. So can you date this example?


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## dombox40 (Oct 20, 2008)

I love these cockpit clocks because they are all excellent pieces of mechanical engineering. This recent purchase of mine has some great features, you can actually hack the clock to stop, start and stop the integral small clock and back to zero on all on one button wish I had the balls to take it apart but its running so well I dont like to play with it.


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## klaus (Feb 18, 2009)

Silver Hawk said:


> klaus said:
> 
> 
> > Those clocks are common german planes cockpit ones. This is the most common version, made after the war too, for civilian and for foreign civilian planes too.
> ...


Thank you. I'm pleased to be aboard with all of you!

Well, dating is not very simple, if we don't see tha back side of the clock. On the back side, just in the opposite side of the winding knob there must be a sort of little metallic label (sorry for my bad english).

Well, it shoud indicate:

1. the serial number and the code of the factory that really made it (Junghans had two factories) IF IT HAS BEEN MADE DURING THE WAR (LATE WAR, SINCE LATE 1942)

2. Nothing IF IT HAS BEEN MADE AFTER THE WAR AND/OR FOR CIVILIAN PLANES, by french occupations autorities

3. The nato code numbers IF IT HAS BEEN MADE AFTER 1957 FOR THE EARLY NEW LUFTWAFFE.

Hope this helps.


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## klaus (Feb 18, 2009)

dombox40 said:


> I love these cockpit clocks because they are all excellent pieces of mechanical engineering. This recent purchase of mine has some great features, you can actually hack the clock to stop, start and stop the integral small clock and back to zero on all on one button wish I had the balls to take it apart but its running so well I dont like to play with it.


Well, this is the grandson of the Jaeger Le Coultre clocks used by russian air force.

The original one (the grandfather) was a real beauty, wellmade and sturdy. Stalin himself loved those swiss made clocks, so he ordered to copy them.

Russian copies are more less refined, but sturdy and very precise too.

the yours is the last version of the copies. very interesting. Used form the '70, if I am right. i've only the swiss version and the first family of copies. I haven't ever bought one of these.

Be confident: open it, if you want: they're bombproof, very sturdy, strong, wellmade and easy to be repaired, serviced, fixed. Spare parts aren't difficult to find: a spare clocks for parts can be cheaper that the service itself.

they are common: they are used on every planes of russian derivation and for space vehicles too.


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## dombox40 (Oct 20, 2008)

klaus said:


> dombox40 said:
> 
> 
> > I love these cockpit clocks because they are all excellent pieces of mechanical engineering. This recent purchase of mine has some great features, you can actually hack the clock to stop, start and stop the integral small clock and back to zero on all on one button wish I had the balls to take it apart but its running so well I dont like to play with it.
> ...


Hi klaus thanks for that very precise and excellent report, can the clock be dated from the back if it can I,ll put a picture up


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## dombox40 (Oct 20, 2008)

Hi Klaus picture of the back of the clock can it be dated from this, apolagies to paul for hijacking his thread.


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## klaus (Feb 18, 2009)

dombox40 said:


> Hi Klaus picture of the back of the clock can it be dated from this, apolagies to paul for hijacking his thread.


This case is different: those clocks are used in present days too.

As I wrote, the swiss made ones, were used before and during the 2 world war.

Just after the beginning of war Stalin ordered to copy them.

Those clocks were the first and complete version: chrono function and "time of the trip" were included.

After the war, during the '50 and till the '70 there were two other versions: only time and only chrono with minute counter for 60 min. Like the older versions this family has the minute counter that operates anticlockvise...

Then, during the '70 appeared the last family. The yours.

I think that the yours was made in late '80. i will try to post some links and scans during the weekend... Now, in Italy is 1.30 am... very late... I go to sleep...

We could open a new thread, dedicated...


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## 11oss (Jun 15, 2007)

I love these cockpit clcoks. Mine is sat ticking away on my desk as I type.


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## James (Jul 17, 2006)

klaus said:


> dombox40 said:
> 
> 
> > I love these cockpit clocks because they are all excellent pieces of mechanical engineering. This recent purchase of mine has some great features, you can actually hack the clock to stop, start and stop the integral small clock and back to zero on all on one button wish I had the balls to take it apart but its running so well I dont like to play with it.
> ...


Its funny you mention parts are easy to find. I was at the watchmakers this week, he is Hungarian watchmaker from his youth, then trained at Rolex then ended up here, about my age. Took in a whack of goodies to show him a couple MIG pieces, a marine clock and tank clock and so on.

He used to work on these things quite often, a lot of Russian pieces. Through his reminiscing which I enjoy he stated he has many parts for these clocks, works parts for the MIG and tank clocks etc. Guess he brought a lot over with him and were shipped afterwards. Really enjoy hearing him speak about pieces he has come across over the years, ones we dream of, a different world he came from when it comes to what is common and what is not.

.............


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## Roger (May 17, 2003)

I collected a few over the years

Roger


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## klaus (Feb 18, 2009)

James said:


> klaus said:
> 
> 
> > dombox40 said:
> ...


Well, my sources have always sent me all the spares I needed, sometimes for free. But all the russian timepieces I know are virtually undistructible and relatively easy to be repaired. Cheap and common, but very wellmade, some times it is better to buy a new one than fix the broken: I think that russians made millions of them. Of course, I'm making a relation with many other timepices I have interest in. Finding spares for german cockpit clocks is much more difficult.


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