# Eco-drive



## peter (Feb 23, 2003)

Noticed that Edge is back so I thought I would raise this again because I know some of you were not big fans of them. The reason I do raise this is that according to Citizen UK, the cell in these watches will last a lifetime.

Now I did read but cannot recollect where(but genuinely) that this in practical terms means anything between 25 to 40 years. That is some lifespan for converting light into electrical energy

(Will give you an update in 40 years time!!!!!!!!)

Peter

by the way, in all honesty, I feel that some Citizens are the equal to Seiko in many respects. One being the Promaster Tough. The case being one piece titanium and the 2.5mm thick sapphire anti reflective coated lens makes it look really tough, which I have found IS the case.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Peter,

I'm a fan of solar, as I've said before.

I've phoned Seiko, and Citizen.

The Citizen Eco Drives have no jewels in the movements.

The Seiko and Seiko owned Pulsars have 2 jewels in theirs, one at each end of the stepping motor. As regards solar powered, I think Seiko/Pulsar are better movements, but it comes down to choice of case a lot with peoples' choice. Those Promasters which are listed at Â£299, or there abouts, are overpriced in my opinion, whether the cases are titanium or not. For me, the titanium makes the watch less desirable.


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## therocs (Feb 24, 2003)

Now we have had the technical differences explained by Griff, here are the non technical or idiot guide to Seiko/Citizen by me









I have recently bought a Citizen Eco drive, the one with the gold bezel (BL00-50 or something) and a Seiko perpetual calendar SLL 01P. Both watches are very nice but the Seiko just feels better and classier. Maybe it is because the Seiko is heavier and I somehow equate weight to quality in all things (You should see my wife







)

Regards,

Steve.


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

My understanding on this is that jewels in a quartz movement aren't a necessity. As I understand it jewels are designed to act as bearings and lubricant reservoirs (?), so stopping metal on metal contact in more traditional mechanical movements. The strains put on a mechanical movement by the mainspring unwinding are much greater than the strains placed upon a quartz movement, so requiring stronger construction materials i.e.metal and greater lubrication. Modern plastics can be very low friction and self lubricating meaning that modern quartz movements have very low stresses placed upon them, hence their low weight and slimness. Maybe I'm talking utter codswallop but that's how I understand the situation. Perhaps someone will correct me?

I have two Eco-Drive watches and both are of excellent quality. Timekeeping is second to none, the cases are very well finished and seem to be just about indestructible and I like the "gadget" factor of solar power. One of my watches is stainless steel, the other titanium, both have a substantial feel in that you can feel the weight when worn. I have no experience with the Seiko product but I think that the quality of both Seiko and Citizen are roughly similar. I consider both of my watches to be excellent value one being about 5 years old and bought secondhand, the other being bought new about a month ago.

Just thought I'd add my tuppence worth, I'm certainly not anti-Seiko in any way shape or form.

Cheers

Paul (who's wearing a Seiko automatic diver)


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Mine on wrist too.....779. Which one is yours?


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

SKX007, I like the classic styling and chunky case. The bracelet is also excellent quality but I'm more a strap man and I've put it on a rhino.


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## Sargon (Feb 24, 2003)

Then how do we explain my Luminox that has an ETA quartz movement that has 15 jewels printed on it? Overkill? It's not a chronograph or anything, although it does have sub seconds. I have two Seiko 7S26's and two Citizen automatics. I see very little difference between the movements. One of my Citizens does have a higher beat movement though.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Paul,

After reading Sargon's post, all I can say is that moving parts wear.

If you put jewels in you vitually eliminate the wear, whether it's quartz or mechanical. I don't buy this business of self lubricating wheels if they're plastic. A decent quality quartz has jewels in it. It's as simple as that.

My Tissot Autoquartz has 17 jewels, and it's very high on quality.


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

Hi Griff

I don't disagree with anything you say. The lack of jewels in the Citizen movement is a bit dissappointing. However I really can't fault the time keeping on my Eco Drives either, one of which is at least a few years old. This particular watch sets the standard by which I set my other watches if I can't be bothered ringing up the speaking clock! Also I don't know the history of the watch, for all I know it's had a new movement every year, so I suppose it's just a case of keeping an eye on it. It's presumably cheaper for Citizen to produce the movement without jewels, I also doubt that if the watch did go wrong that Citizen would repair the movement. I'm sure they'd bin the faulty one and replace it with a new one. It'll be the same with everything soon .... washing machines, cars, tv's, video players etc.

Cheers

Paul


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Yep............agree with that.

My Citizen Eco Drive Divers keeps good time, but so do all my other quartz.

I also know they guarantee them for 3 years. Sure, but they wont last as long as an ETA jewelled quartz in the same circumstances.


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## AaronM (Feb 2, 2011)

Hi,

I am fairly new here, so hello to all of you. I own a Breitling Aerospace with a high end quartz movement. The movement is the ETA 988.352 Thermoline SuperQuartz. This movement has the maximum 7 jewels needed for all the friction points and has a circuit to adjust the beats for changes in ambient temperature. It also is a certified chronometer with accuracy to +/- 10 seconds per year. The aim in using the jewels is to minimize friction and the resulting drain on the battery. I just had this watch serviced. The last battery was installed five years ago.

I am thinking of buying a new Citizen eco-drive for the "gadget factor". Off hand, I am going to speculate that the eco-drive does not need to minimize friction to the same extent because the solar cell can generate enough power to more than compensate for increased friction of a "non-jewel" movement.

Solar power and the use of the atomic clock reference signals are technological advances that eliminate the need for expensive movement features like jewels and thermal compensation. In effect these watches can be hermetically sealed and do not need to be opened short of the failure of some internal part. The net result will be watches that provide much better service and cost less to manufacture.

AaronM


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## Top Cat (Feb 24, 2011)

Some very interested points made here, I think Aaaron must be right.


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## deepreddave (Jan 28, 2011)

Very interesting so thanks. I do like the eco-drive idea alot as adjusting the time every week or so isn't something I'm used to doing (with my seiko kinetic arctura) so I take that for granted.

Think the eco-drive brand element is driving a more up market image for citizen too and the eco-friendliness and lack of potential service costs is a big advantage (having paid seiko anyway!). Just need one that's not massive on a nice rubber strap and I'm in. :thumbsup:


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## a fresh start (Mar 5, 2011)

I love the Eco-Drive, ive got the Skyhawk A-T in black, and also in Titanium, however the titanium one to me feels like a toy. the face is so heavy that it make the band feel cheap in comparison.

Ive also got the Citizen AR301553E black stilleto, a very very nice dress watch that i love the look of.


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## jezz59 (Nov 1, 2009)

the last Eco drive I bought was a chronograph,with a five year Citizen guarantee, thats plenty long enough for a watch costing little more than Â£100! I didnt know Seiko made solar powered watches, always thought their baby was the Kinetic or spring drive models. Ive got two Seiko battery quartz chronos which are dogs b----x but Every Eco drive Ive had has just kept Exemplary timing, to be honest Ive got bored with their lack of need for attention and sold em on to work mates who thought I was mad for letting them go so cheap!


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## Moustachio (Feb 3, 2011)

I have a skyhawk and its been faultless for nearly 3 years and counting


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## alg59 (Mar 4, 2011)

jezz59 said:


> the last Eco drive I bought was a chronograph,with a five year Citizen guarantee, thats plenty long enough for a watch costing little more than Â£100! I didnt know Seiko made solar powered watches, always thought their baby was the Kinetic or spring drive models. Ive got two Seiko battery quartz chronos which are dogs b----x but Every Eco drive Ive had has just kept Exemplary timing, to be honest Ive got bored with their lack of need for attention and sold em on to work mates who thought I was mad for letting them go so cheap!


does anybody have an opinion on the pulsars. i understand they are made by seiko but they seem a bit cheaper


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## EddyW (Feb 13, 2010)

alg59 said:


> jezz59 said:
> 
> 
> > the last Eco drive I bought was a chronograph,with a five year Citizen guarantee, thats plenty long enough for a watch costing little more than Â£100! I didnt know Seiko made solar powered watches, always thought their baby was the Kinetic or spring drive models. Ive got two Seiko battery quartz chronos which are dogs b----x but Every Eco drive Ive had has just kept Exemplary timing, to be honest Ive got bored with their lack of need for attention and sold em on to work mates who thought I was mad for letting them go so cheap!
> ...


Hi

I have had Pulsar watches in the past and they are in my opinion quite good.(you get what you pay for with anything)

They are fairly robust and good time keepers,

I am not worried about +/- 5 seconds a day, As long as it's

within about 5 min's a day, that's close enough for me.

For an everyday watch they are fine, However I still prefer my Citizen Eco E8700.


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## Tartan (Feb 26, 2011)

I purchased a Citizen Red Arrows Perpetual Calendar back in december, mainly for the gimmick factor of the Eco-drive. Call me simplistic but it was pretty much a case of "ooooo solar power! me want!"

I never bothered to try and find out if it was any good before buying......... :blush2:


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## normdiaz (May 5, 2004)

jezz59 said:


> the last Eco drive I bought was a chronograph,with a five year Citizen guarantee, thats plenty long enough for a watch costing little more than Â£100!


By that measure, I've already gotten my money's worth out of my Eco-Drive cal.E760 since I've had it over 5 years and paid under $100 for it. The plus factor is that is still going strong and accurately.


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## AaronM (Feb 2, 2011)

I did purchase a new Citizen Eco Drive watch for the ridiculous price of $51USD which included shipping. I have wanted a gold watch with a light brown leather strap. This watch is a model BM8002-01P with an E100 movement. The case is stainless steel with a gold finish. The back is not engraved. It has a stick-on label with the details. Surprise, surprise. The brown leather strap was cheap looking and too short for my large wrists. I have ordered a quality strap, light brown crocodile leather strap with a polished gold deployant clasp.

Although this watch was designed to sell at a low price point, there are some very good points. It came with the tags and a 5 year warranty. So far the watch keeps excellent time, much better than the published specs. The day/date windows at 3:00 line up although the day and date wheels turn over very slowly. It takes 4 hours for the entire rollover which begins shortly before mid-night and is complete by 4:00AM. This is normal for all movements (mechanical or quartz) that do not have independent mechanisms to move the wheels. The case is water resistant to 10 Bar. The watch face is pleasing and the case actually looks like it is made from real gold. I am sure it will look like an expensive watch on my wrist with the new strap installed.

I may make a career out of collecting state of the art watches for miserly prices.







Recently I acquired also a Casio WV-M120 SOLAR, ATOMIC CLOCK RC FOR $39.99. The fact is that we tend to think performance is related to price. For modern time pieces the increased price buys fancier jewelry and bragging rights not necessarily better timekeeping. I love the technology. I'm not into buying status.

AaronM

P.S. I use the Casio RCC as a standard. The Citizen has gained about 0.5 seconds in just over one week. I keep track and will report again.


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## normdiaz (May 5, 2004)

AaronM said:


> Recently I acquired also a Casio WV-M120 SOLAR, ATOMIC CLOCK RC FOR $39.99.


Good price on that model if it was new. I found a pristine used one for $32 delivered. Walmart sold out of that model at $27 and change delivered. Buying at low prices seems to work sort of like "Murphy's Law" -- no matter how little you pay for an item, you will invariably see it later offered for sale at a lower price.


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## AaronM (Feb 2, 2011)

AaronM said:


> I did purchase a new Citizen Eco Drive watch for the ridiculous price of $51USD which included shipping. I have wanted a gold watch with a light brown leather strap. This watch is a model BM8002-01P with an E100 movement. The case is stainless steel with a gold finish. The back is not engraved. It has a stick-on label with the details. Surprise, surprise. The brown leather strap was cheap looking and too short for my large wrists. I have ordered a quality strap, light brown crocodile leather strap with a polished gold deployant clasp.
> 
> Although this watch was designed to sell at a low price point, there are some very good points. It came with the tags and a 5 year warranty. So far the watch keeps excellent time, much better than the published specs. The day/date windows at 3:00 line up although the day and date wheels turn over very slowly. It takes 4 hours for the entire rollover which begins shortly before mid-night and is complete by 4:00AM. This is normal for all movements (mechanical or quartz) that do not have independent mechanisms to move the wheels. The case is water resistant to 10 Bar. The watch face is pleasing and the case actually looks like it is made from real gold. I am sure it will look like an expensive watch on my wrist with the new strap installed.
> 
> ...


I am embarrassed to note that the sticky label was just protective for the BM8002-01P. I had a hard time removing the label gunk but the back was the standard laser etched info in pristine condition.


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