# Noise Cancelling Headphones



## tom (Jun 2, 2003)

Hi guys,

Advice on noise cancelling headphones/Ok Bose are the best but cost the earth/ so what is out there for reasonable money ie sub Â£100. I have looked at sonyMDR-NC6 and fancy the very pricey sennheiser PXC450.

What do you audio fans think(I use an ipod and a nokia N95 8gb in trains).

Tom


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## squareleg (Mar 6, 2008)

Hi Tom

I work in the industry and even I don't know what they mean by 'noise cancelling'. It's probably no more than a new marketing thing. The only way to 'cancel' noise is to generate an exact replica of the amplitude logarythm (ha ha - sound wave!) and bombard the incoming signal with this at the same amplitude. This is known as 'phase cancellation'. You can do this in a studio, after about an hour of fiddling about but, crucially, only if you're sitting in just the right spot - otherwise it won't work. And even then it only sort of half works - there are just too many variables.

My advice? If ambient noise is a problem - I guess this is for use on a train or whatever - get yourself headphones with proper 'cupped' earpieces - soft plastic, not just foam - and make sure they fit properly (you'll be amazed how many models don't). A good cup will form a tight seal around your ear and cut out most of the ambient noise. The rest is down to application and size of wallet. AKG, Sennheiser et al make good stuff. I've used AKG for years and I love 'em.

Hope this helps.

Rgds,

Nick


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## JTW (Jun 14, 2007)

Hi, I've got sennheiser PXC250 phones and they are pretty good headphones, they do use out of phase signals to reduced noise as described. This works very well with low frequency sound, which is the problem on planes, also means you still hear mid range sounds so you can at least tell if someone is trying to talk to you. on the other hand if it's mid range sound that's the problem then they probably would not be suitable.

I'm very pleased with mine though I don't know if they are now available, you can get them on ebay from the states I notice.

Ian


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

I have the PXC250s as well, used em for years and they make a huge difference on planes.


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## Andy Tims (Apr 13, 2008)

You could do a lot worse than the Sony MDR-EX71SLB Fontopia.

Really good for the money - Â£18.00 at Amazon now / recently.


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## Toshi (Aug 31, 2007)

I bought a pair of Bose Quiet Comfort 2 headphones about 3 years ago as I travel by tube every day. Absolutely excellent headphones. Yes, they were expensive (If I remember correctly they were around Â£200) but very very good on the tube and on flights.

The only other I've tried are in-ear headphones by Shure. They were ok (and under your budget), but I find in-ear phones a little uncomfortable. In my opinion save up for the Bose headphones. :yes:

Rich


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## Jonmurgie (Feb 11, 2007)

I've used some Shure sets in the past but my current choice/recommendation are the Sennheiser CX400:

http://www.iheadphones.co.uk/headphones/23...ack+Earbuds.htm

VERY light and comfy with a excellent sound quality whilst doing a superb job of keeping out all other noise


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I also use Sennheiser PXC-250's

As has been said they don't cancel noise but do reduce certain frequencies. they work well on planes and are pretty good on trains. They have their own powerpack which takes two AAA batteries. I use mine with a small Sony USB type MP3 works well. Big advantage is that you don't have to play your music so loud to hear it which is better for your ears and causes no aggravation for those sitting near.


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## SharkBike (Apr 15, 2005)

If you can deal with ear buds, then definitely check out Etymotic. I fly at least once a week, and have a pair of ER-4Ps. They can't be beat for blocking outside noises and are obviously quite portable...and the sound is absolutely amazing.

This site is excellent for checking out options:

http://www.headphone.com

Here are the ones I have:

http://www.headphone.com/products/headphon...motic-er-4p.php


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

I'll second what the above have said about ear-buds that seal the ear.

A colleague has the Bose 'active' noise cancelling headphones and they are effective, but the battery/electronics module is bigger than his ipod mini and I think it needed a neck-strap to take the weight and stop it from pulling the headphones off.

I've got a set of Sony 'over the ear' earbuds (don't know the model) with soft plastic 'cups' that seal the ear canal.

They're almost as effective, weigh virtually nothing and make a massive difference to the sound from my NW-A HD Walkman (bass and mid-range sound 'real').

The only time they let me down is after about 15mins on the cross-trainer in the gym, when I've got a bit of a sweat on. Then they don't seal properly.

For similar reasons, I'd steer clear of ones with foam inserts.

The Bose units don't completely cancel ambient noise, they just mute so it sounds dull and distant. I reckon earbuds that seal the ear-canal are worth trying first, particularly Sony ones.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I used to use ear-bud type phones all the time ... whilst they are good they are no where near as good as my Sennheiser PXC-250's. You can also use the PXC-250's to listen to the aircraft's in-flight entertainment.

Fair point about the power pack being bigger than the MP3 but when you consider they are primarily for use whilst on a plane or a train and not for general use I don't think its a problem. The PXC-250 has a clip rather than a neck strap.

I also carry a set of standard ear-bud phones as well for non-plane/train use - they dont take up much room


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## bowie (Mar 12, 2005)

Creative Noise Cancelling Headphones HN-700

i have some of these and they work you can get them of the bay for about Â£20.00

i also have the creative soundworks sound system just as good as bose but not bose price.

bowie


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## adrian (May 23, 2004)

I like music a lot and spend quite a few $$$ on my system. At home I have a Sennheiser HD650 and for travel I use a JVC HANC100. The JVC is pretty good for bus/train.


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## Toshi (Aug 31, 2007)

Who. Me? said:


> A colleague has the Bose 'active' noise cancelling headphones and they are effective, but the battery/electronics module is bigger than his ipod mini and I think it needed a neck-strap to take the weight and stop it from pulling the headphones off.


He's obviously got one of the original sets. When Bose first launched Quiet Comfort headphones there was an external "box", but several years ago they updated the design with the Quiet Comfort 2 and built everything into the headphones themselves.

Rich


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## squareleg (Mar 6, 2008)

The science behind the Bose system can be found here:

http://www.bose.co.uk/GB/en/learning-centr...ction/index.jsp

However, I remain hugely skeptical. For instance, how on earth can the system distinguish between what is 'desirable noise' and what is not? Given that _all_ music is noise, the computer would have to be taught, beforehand, what to listen for before it could begin the process of cancelling what _it perceives_ as being unwanted elements (actually, the science behind such a system, which would involve the emerging field of 'neural nets', is already known - only the computing power presently available makes the implementation of such a system unfeasible, at least on a commercial level).

Where speech is concerned this is not such a big deal, as human speech falls into a fairly narrow frequency band, centering roughly around 2khz. A system could be easily devised to reduce noise in such a scenario simply by 'shelving' (i.e. sloping off the volume) of ALL frequencies either side of, say, 1 and 3 khz. Rumble and whine are the two very easiest elements to eliminate, as they fall at the far ends of the spectrum - so, no points there, either.

If Bose have, indeed, been able to convince a computer that it knows the difference between, say, an air hostess wheeling along a tray full of crockery and a piece by Harrison Bertwistle, then good on them. A Nobel Prize awaits.

Furthermore, Bose claim that their system 'listens' to ambient noise, creates a copy of this noise 'on the fly' and reverses it. It then bombards the incoming noise with this 'phase reversed' version before it reaches the ear, thus cancelling out the unwanted element. That's a lot of computing power. Plus, the amplitudes would have to match precisely and the timing would have to be perfect. A mistiming of just a couple of milliseconds would render the system useless.

Personally, I would consider Bose's secret lies more in those lovely, soft, close-fitting, padded earpieces.

But, the proof of the pudding... A lot of people seem to be pleased with the Bose system, so I will re-read the article in case I missed something!

Nice discussion, btw.

Nick


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Sennheiser technology is similar, and it does discriminate between external sounds, you still hear someone talking to you or a hostesses trolley but at the same time the noise from the engines is greatly reduced and general noise reduced. I am not in the industry like you but I can say that the technology works, if you put the headphones on, turn on the power but don't play music and if you listen carefully you can hear a noise generated by the headphones, I believe this has something to do with the cancelling effect.

By the way the Sennheisser PXC-250 phones I have don't have great big padded close fitting earpieces


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

Of course what is not being mentioned - but is extremely important, is the quality of the audio you're listening to.

If you are listening to highly compressed mp3 files then the best headphones will make it sound truly awful but if you listen to lossless files such as flac then investing in a decent pair makes sense.

Second importance is the comfort level.

If you can comfortably wear those foam earplugs that airlines give out, or ones you wear shooting then the in-ear style is a possibility for you - they 'isolate' the sound rather than try fancy electronics to cancel the noise.

If you can't live with earphones jammed down your ear, then it doesn't matter how good they are - you'll never be comfortable with them.

I'm lucky, I learned to use the foam earplugs on planes & in noisy hotels etc so this style was an easy adjustment.

I've used both Sennheiser & Sony "Active Noise Cancelling" and whilst they're better than nothing, I strongly suspect the active component amplifies certain frequencies rather than cancels any ambient noise.

I now use the Shure E2c's (now discontinued but still available for about Â£50) and for me they're the best.

They get the best out of my Mp3 files

They effectively isolate background noise, & deaden any high level peaks (aka shrieking child)

Compact.

Good luck.


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

Toshi - yes, my colleague has a habit of buying anything new and flashy, so I think he's had his since they first became available over here.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the technology was developed by, or was being evaluated by the old DERA, for use in jet fighter cockpits. It was to be teamed up with electrostatic speakers (flat tiles that act as speakers) to cancel out the jet noise.

Of course, that may just be bo!!ocks, but I can see it working as a marketing ploy, if nothing else.


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

Whether it is relevant or not to the debate in discussion but BA Nigels use Sennheiser Noise Canceling headsets....


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## Toshi (Aug 31, 2007)

squareleg said:


> If Bose have, indeed, been able to convince a computer that it knows the difference between, say, an air hostess wheeling along a tray full of crockery and a piece by Harrison Bertwistle, then good on them. A Nobel Prize awaits.
> 
> Furthermore, Bose claim that their system 'listens' to ambient noise, creates a copy of this noise 'on the fly' and reverses it. It then bombards the incoming noise with this 'phase reversed' version before it reaches the ear, thus cancelling out the unwanted element. That's a lot of computing power. Plus, the amplitudes would have to match precisely and the timing would have to be perfect. A mistiming of just a couple of milliseconds would render the system useless.
> 
> But, the proof of the pudding... A lot of people seem to be pleased with the Bose system, so I will re-read the article in case I missed something!


Yes, I was sceptical too. Let's face it, they're not cheap. So I tried them for a month before buying them (often in the Sunday Times magazine they advertise a one month free tiral on Bose products - I went for that). After a month with them I couldn't face a tube journey without them.



squareleg said:


> Personally, I would consider Bose's secret lies more in those lovely, soft, close-fitting, padded earpieces.


Actually this is not true, and quite easy to demonstrate as the headphones can be turned on or off. Wearing them turned off will slighly muffle sounds, but certainly not cancel them out to any degree, but turning them on (without playing music through them) is extraordinary. I often sleep on planes with them on like this. It eliminates the drone of the jet engines almost completely.

However they do it they work, and while they don't totally cancel out everything they certainly make it possible to listen to quiet music without being aware of the background noise

Rich


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## tom (Jun 2, 2003)

Thanks guys for the advice,I shall start by tracking down a pair of sure EC2in ear buds.

Tom :rltb:


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## foztex (Nov 6, 2005)

My missus has Panasonic RPCH100 noise cancelling phones, I paid 45 quid about 10 years ago and they are still going strong. They fold and all the electronics is in the phones themselves. They seem to be about 35 pounds these days.

Nick, as far as I know the way noise cancelling phones work is that they have a mic on the outside and reverse the phase of any sound it picks up and play that through the transducers, thereby cancelling out the ambient noise. The mic cant hear the sound on the ear side of the phones and thus whatever you are listening to is untouched. Essentially the same idea as a Coles lip-mic if you are familiar with them.

Andy


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