# Old Maps



## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

I posted a few in another post I can't find. They are another collecting hobby, not as good as watches though :laugh:





This last one is a strip map.........maybe the oldest I have, they were made as if to follow a rolling road......from one destination to another......in this case London to "Barwick." Not sure if that is Berwick as the map only shows a small part.'

Cheers.


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## jsud2002 (Nov 7, 2015)

In our last house we bought lots of old ordanance survey maps and stuck them on one of our front room walls as wallpaper .... Looked really good


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

jsud2002 said:


> In our last house we bought lots of old ordanance survey maps and stuck them on one of our front room walls as wallpaper .... Looked really good


 Good idea..........after looking ordinance survey maps for ages you must be able to find your way around :laugh: .


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Maps spelled backwards is spam. I'd never noticed that before. 

Later,
William


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

Lovely looking maps. I love old "things" but my interest lies in this direction (hijack ahead..)










This is my most sentimental posession. For 20 years it hung outside my parents bedroom, and then it was passed to me. Many many memories and emotions attached. I'd give the lower half of my left leg to find some more blueprints of this ship, alas I can't even find a record of the ship  but then again I've always sucked at Google search terms.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

hughlle said:


> Lovely looking maps. I love old "things" but my interest lies in this direction (hijack ahead..)
> 
> 
> 
> This is my most sentimental posession. For 20 years it hung outside my parents bedroom, and then it was passed to me. Many many memories and emotions attached. I'd give the lower half of my left leg to find some more blueprints of this ship, alas I can't even find a record of the ship  but then again I've always sucked at Google search terms.


 http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?176968

Somewhere to start maybe ??

Or this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Photographic-Print-Ship-plan-Alagoasa/dp/B00GZOBA04

Which has the comment quoted in the sales pitch, whilst being a slightly different name looks like the same print.





> For any queries regarding this choice of artwork please contact National Maritime Museum. (c) National Maritime Museum, Greenwich, London


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

BondandBigM said:


> http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?176968
> 
> Somewhere to start maybe ??
> 
> ...


 Yeah, I'd seen those, I just live in hope of finding more of the original prints. No colourised photo prints for me. That's cheating. I could be completely wrong but I assume by no 276, that there are others. Got to love my dad, he's no time for replicas. A sad thought, but when he goes to the next realm, I'll end up with enough antique items to start a museum. My brother have no interest in old stuff. Old is everything to me. Who wants to own things that anyone and their mother can buy. I wouldn't give up this blueprint for any sum.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

hughlle said:


> Yeah, I'd seen those, I just live in hope of finding more of the original prints. No colourised photo prints for me. That's cheating. I could be completely wrong but I assume by no 276, that there are others.


 No doubt there will be others in the sequence but I suspect given the age the originals will either be lost or tucked up in a vault somewhere. The Maritime museum might be a good starting point though.


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

BondandBigM said:


> No doubt there will be others in the sequence but I suspect given the age the originals will either be lost or tucked up in a vault somewhere. The Maritime museum might be a good starting point though.


 I have a 4 hour break between lectures on Thursday, my lecture hall happens to be across the road from the museum, so may just pop in and see if there is someone with a bit of knowledge. Would be really amazing if I could find something to (loan) give to my dad as a sign of appreciation for passing it down to me.

Sorry @rwp clearly my majestic example of newcastles engineering prowess is better than your silly old hobbity maps 

Feel free to shout at me. But hijacking is fun


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Worth an hour one lunchtime.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

I've an old OS "Atlas" of driving routes from around 1934 afaik, and someone has written on it (sacrilege I know) various locations around the UK with notes like

Gold Deposits

Tin Mines

Cairngorm Stones

and so on! Don't know if he/she ever made a fortune, but it makes interesting reading! :yes:

I alwways have a wee look going somewhere's I haven't been before or in a while :wacko:


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

hughlle said:


> Lovely looking maps. I love old "things" but my interest lies in this direction (hijack ahead..)
> 
> 
> 
> This is my most sentimental posession. For 20 years it hung outside my parents bedroom, and then it was passed to me. Many many memories and emotions attached. I'd give the lower half of my left leg to find some more blueprints of this ship, alas I can't even find a record of the ship  but then again I've always sucked at Google search terms.


 Some of my old maps were inherited from my late parents. Like your blueprint they bring back memories. Love the blueprint.



hughlle said:


> Yeah, I'd seen those, I just live in hope of finding more of the original prints. No colourised photo prints for me. That's cheating. I could be completely wrong but I assume by no 276, that there are others. Got to love my dad, he's no time for replicas. A sad thought, but when he goes to the next realm, I'll end up with enough antique items to start a museum. My brother have no interest in old stuff. Old is everything to me. Who wants to own things that anyone and their mother can buy. I wouldn't give up this blueprint for any sum.


 276 would probably be the ship build number? Whoever built it built 275 vessels before?


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## SBryantgb (Jul 2, 2015)

I always enjoy looking at a good chocolate map.... helps me find my favourites


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2015)

RWP said:


> 276 would probably be the ship build number? Whoever built it built 275 vessels before?


 i would have thought it more likely that it is just drawing number 276 out of ?? for that particular ship, they drew everything from the anchor chains to the masts and everything in between


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

Bruce said:


> i would have thought it more likely that it is just drawing number 276 out of ?? for that particular ship, they drew everything from the anchor chains to the masts and everything in between


 That's how i was looking at it. They would hardly draw up one general blueprint and say "build it". Going to see if i can arrange a meeting at the maritime museum.


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2015)

hughlle said:


> That's how i was looking at it. They would hardly draw up one general blueprint and say "build it". Going to see if i can arrange a meeting at the maritime museum.


 my cousin was a draughtsman in the govan shipyards, they used to draw absolutely everything in all elevations, their equivalent of 3d i suppose


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

Sank off Brazil in 1922? 1889 transported Brazilian nobility into exile.

info from google print copies available from Greenwich


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Normal for a keel to be numbered at laydown rather than a ship to be named - - a combination of convenience, tradition and superstition, not naming a ship before completion! It's SS so it's a steam powered clipper type thing, even the big "Queen's" carried a keel number before launch even though we all knew what they were going to be called. :yes:

Also, some yards built almost a continuous production line of vessels, and using the keel number meant there was no confusion between older and newer vessels of the same class! You should be able to trace the vessel back to the yard it was built in, and Lloyds used to be able to be searched for details of vessel registers, dunno if you can nowadays, possibly easier using 'tinterweb thingy's.

In the 50's, whence the yards in Govan were still in full swing, it was common for the guys to stay on work all day, eating snap at lunchtime and flasks etc. That meant they needed a loo, so it was common to set up two steel plates to drain into the dock area, one to stand on, one to pee against. Barsteward sparkies would wire up 110v one lead to the base, one to the plate and lie in wait for unwary pee-ers to get started, then flick the switch on and off :wacko:

Lightning Rods it was called!


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## KevG (Dec 15, 2008)

BondandBigM said:


> http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?176968
> 
> Somewhere to start maybe ??
> 
> ...


 Little bit more here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_monitor_Alagoas

You may need to translate to english (left hand sidebar at the bottom

From wikki

_Alagoas_ was laid down at the Arsenal de Marinha da Côrte in Rio de Janeiro on 8 December 1866, during the Paraguayan War, which saw Argentina and Brazil allied against Paraguay. She was launched on 29 October 1867 and completed in November 1867. She arrived on the Paraná River in January 1868, although her passage further north was barred by the Paraguayan fortifications at Humaitá. On 19 February 1868, six Brazilian ironclads, including _Alagoas_, steamed past Humaitá at night. _Alagoas_ and her two sister ships, _Rio Grande_ and _Pará_ were lashed to the larger ironclads in case any engines were disabled by the Paraguayan guns. _Barroso_ led with _Rio Grande_, followed by _Bahia_ with _Alagoas_ and _Tamandaré_ with _Pará_.[7] The cable tying _Alagoas_ to _Bahia_ was severed by Paraguayan shells and the monitor drifted down below the guns. The commander of the _Alagoas_ was ordered not to attempt to pass the guns during daylight, but disregarded this order and successfully rendezvoused with the rest of the squadron upstream of the fortifications.[8] Both _Alagoas_, which had taken an estimated 200 hits, and _Pará_ had to be beached after passing the fortress to prevent them from sinking. _Alagoas_ was under repair at São José do Cerrito until mid-March. Accompanied by _Tamandaré_, _Alagoas_bombarded and destroyed the Paraguayan artillery battery at Timbó, upstream of Humanitá, on 23 March. The monitor bombarded artillery positions defending the Tebicuary River in July and again in August.

On 15 October she bombarded Angostura Fort, south of Asunción, in company with _Brasil_, _Silvado_, _Pará_ and her sister _Ceará_.[9]

After the war _Alagoas_ was assigned to the newly formed Alto Uruguai Flotilla, based at Itaqui.[10] In the 1880s the ship's armament was reinforced with a pair of 11-millimeter (0.43 in) machine guns.[6] _Alagoas_ was transferred to Rio de Janeiro in the 1890s and joined the rebels in the Fleet Revolt of 1893-94. Her engines had been removed by this point and she had to be towed into position to fire on the government forts.[10] She was scrapped in 1900.[10]

Note Wikki has her scrapped Wrecksite has her sunk

Kev


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

Thanks for taking the time to look into it, however that is very much a different ship. The one i'm interested in was laid down in good ol Newcastle on Tyne


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

hughlle said:


> Thanks for taking the time to look into it, however that is very much a different ship. The one i'm interested in was laid down in good ol Newcastle on Tyne


 As was my late Father :thumbsup:


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

Knowing Newcastle he probably had a bottle smashed over his head as well :wacko:


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

hughlle said:


> Knowing Newcastle he probably had a bottle smashed over his head as well :wacko:


 The worst thing that happened to him seems to be getting pneumonia when at medical school (Durham) and he bet his watch was waterproof enough to sit at the bottom of a pint while he drank it, it went down the wrong way :blind:


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

RWP said:


> The worst thing that happened to him seems to be getting pneumonia when at medical school (Durham) and he bet his watch was waterproof enough to sit at the bottom of a pint while he drank it, it went down the wrong way :blind:


 Haha. Both my parents went to Durham, sounds like times didn't change much.


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

hughlle said:


> Haha. Both my parents went to Durham, sounds like times didn't change much.


 Good university :thumbsup:


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## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

hughlle said:


> Thanks for taking the time to look into it, however that is very much a different ship. The one i'm interested in was laid down in good ol Newcastle on Tyne


 This source has 'your' ship also having been in the area at around the same time - bit of a co-incidence innit?: Tyne Built Ships



Name:

ALAGOAS

Type:

Passenger Cargo Ship

Launched:

15/12/1887

Completed:

1888

Builder:

R & W Hawthorn, Leslie & Co Ltd

Yard:

Hebburn

Yard Number:

276

Dimensions:

1989grt, 1254nrt, 276.0 x 38.2 x 20.1ft

Engines:

T3cyl (26, 41 & 67 x 45ins), 301nhp

Engines by:

R & W Hawthorn, Leslie & Co Ltd

Propulsion:

1 x Screw

Construction:

Steel

Reg Number:

n/a

History:



1888

Cia Braziliana de Navegacao a Vapor, Rio de Janeiro

1895

Lloyd Brazileiro, Rio de Janeiro

03/1917

Hulked





Comments:


03/1917: Hulked


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

There you go - -the yard or keel number ID's the vessel very well, and I like "hulked" as it's eventual demise - - I believe that refers to the practice of beaching a vessel and stripping valuables out of it whilst it quietly rots away. :yes:


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## fastmongrel (Aug 12, 2013)

mel said:


> There you go - -the yard or keel number ID's the vessel very well, and I like "hulked" as it's eventual demise - - I believe that refers to the practice of beaching a vessel and stripping valuables out of it whilst it quietly rots away. :yes:


 A Hulk was originally a type of Medieval European cargo vessel used in the North Sea it then became used as a term for an old ship no longer fit to go to sea stripped of her masts the deck roofed over and used as a Prison or Warehouse.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Thanks for the info Fastmongrel, I add this to my store of knowledge for the futiure. :yes:

(It's finding a way to drop it into an after dinner conversation that's not so easy :laugh: )


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## fastmongrel (Aug 12, 2013)

mel said:


> Thanks for the info Fastmongrel, I add this to my store of knowledge for the futiure. :yes:
> 
> (It's finding a way to drop it into an after dinner conversation that's not so easy :laugh: )


 I remember all sorts of useless info its the important stuff like when to pay my car tax and where I left my reading glasses that I forget. I think all the crap in my head doesnt leave any room for useful things. :wacko:


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