# Mantle Clock Help



## dave993cars (Aug 12, 2005)

Hi All

I have been given a Mantle Clock to get going, that I have managed, but the movement needs cleaned/oiled, question is it advisable to clean (mainly dust) or just oil and what oil to use, I have never had a clock to bits before, removing the movement from the case is OK to do but the hands look as if they may have been luminous, the clock dates from 1939 (I think) so would the hands be best left or dealt with, I know a lot of questions but the owner has a sentimental attachment to it, so don't want to damage, also it chimes on the 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and hour, all help appreciated.

Dave S


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## dave993cars (Aug 12, 2005)

Hi All

Spot the mistake "Mantel" :blush2: I have had a root around the internet and I am pretty sure it's a Westminster Movement, I found a good article, (find below)

https://clockrepairs...a-smiths-clock/

but it seems very intense and possibly beyond my skills, I have the clock ticking and keeping good time but should I just remove the movement, unload the springs and clean with a spray degreaser (brake cleaner or such like) then use a good clock oil and oiler to give it a mini service, thus keeping it going for a few years more, your thoughts ?

Dave S


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

First things, be very careful if you're thinking seriously about taking out the mainspring and others on something like this, the WHANGEEEeeesh! as it unwinds and takes off the end of your ear might be the last thing you hear. :yes:

There is some amount of energy in one of those barstewards 

It's quite likely it may be a SMITHS Westminster chimes or very similar movement, ISTR 127 Argyle Street in Glasgow is part of or actually is the Argyll Arcade which was the Glasgow equivalent of the Birmingham or London jewellery quarters - - even in the 50's there were a few bespoke watchmakers/jewellers/silversmiths around there!

Take your time, post pictures if you're unsure about a particular point, and the guys will keep you right. Lume is not all that common on mantel clocks of this period, although could be - -


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## dave993cars (Aug 12, 2005)

Hi Mel

Thanks for the reply, I wasn't intending to fully dismantle the clock, but I had intended to let down the power from the mainsprings (as per the information in the link), the movement is stamped "Armac" and yes, Argyle St on the sticker in the back of the door, I used to frequent Glasgow as a teenager, but when married I moved near Kinross, as you say best to leave the hands, might paint satin black (depends on the owner), I think I will do as I suggested and remove, clean with degreaser and oil all the relevant parts with decent oil, unless someone can persuade me to tackle a full strip down ?


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Good Luck Dave! :lol:

It's like the recommended servicing on TIMEX, the basic quick swish dunk and re-oil method was maybe allright "in the day" as it were, but you've a mechanism there that's around 75 years old, with an unknown service history (like me'sen ldman: :rofl2: ) - - it really should be fully serviced, the whole nine yards, but you may well unearth problems beyond your skills, and mine, and it's not YOUR clock to give up on and scrap if things go pear shaped.

I'd think after that time cleaning and re oil/greasing the spring(s) would certainly be a good thing, however, here's a thought? Look for a similar movement and clock on ebay and try the jobs there before you go too far with the restoration (for that's what it is really) on the one you're doing as a Homer! That way you will know what you can do or not, and I'm sure your owner will appreciate if you tell him/her the whole story, you want to make it right! :yes:

And you could always re-sell the practice clock on the bay - - "fully serviced" :notworthy:


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## dobra (Aug 20, 2009)

Sound advice Mel :thumbup:

Mike


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## dave993cars (Aug 12, 2005)

mel said:


> Good Luck Dave! :lol:
> 
> It's like the recommended servicing on TIMEX, the basic quick swish dunk and re-oil method was maybe allright "in the day" as it were, but you've a mechanism there that's around 75 years old, with an unknown service history (like me'sen ldman: :rofl2: ) - - it really should be fully serviced, the whole nine yards, but you may well unearth problems beyond your skills, and mine, and it's not YOUR clock to give up on and scrap if things go pear shaped.
> 
> ...


Hi Mel

Did a bit more investigation, seems it is similar if not an Anvil/Perivale movement, I have found a couple of possible projects to practice on (great call, by the way), May take me a while but will keep you posted, thanks.

Dave S


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

Hi there,

Hands may just be painted white and have faded, have seen a few like that.

The clock mechanism itself is quite complex, in that it is all "timed up" similar to a car engine with a camshaft and a crankshaft. For all the striking and chiming operations to function normally they are all dependant on each other, and also they "warn" themselves about 3 minutes to the chime as well, otherwise it will stall and not chime.

See if you can get a similar mechanism as suggested to practice on, sounds like a great idea :yes: If taking the mainsprings apart you will need a mainspring winder, also strong sturdy gloves and eye protection are a must. There is numerous books on the article as well........Have fun!


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## dave993cars (Aug 12, 2005)

Hi Harry

Thanks for the input, sounds like an adventure, the owners clock is keeping time and is chiming in the way it should, (just needs cleaned) normally I am only interested in Chronograph watches (not for repair, although I have built a few homage watches for myself), but this clock has got me hooked, and with Mel's suggestion, that was all I needed to give me an excuse to go play, if you could point me in the direction of the books you spoke of I would be obliged, thanks.


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## dave993cars (Aug 12, 2005)

Hi All

Well I have spent money, I found an Anvil on the bay and put what I thought was a very low bid on it, when I rechecked I realised there were another 2 clocks included with the Anvil, I now have three clocks winging there way to me, please see photos below, not a bad deal for Â£27.99


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Sounds Good to me! - - you wait all day for a number 33 bus, then three come along at once! :lol:

Eyewear and Chrome Leather Gloves cheap and cheerful at most DIY places, good invest for personal safety. Books on ebay, Donald Le Carre Clock Repairing is useful. Some can be found on free e-book listings, but may be old ldman: like mesen, but still usefull to put onto a reader or tablet even just for one thing? The way to hand wind a spring back and so on - - these guys invented the game after all! :yes: and with a lot of hand made tools just for the job! :yes:

Take Care and keep us posted!


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## dave993cars (Aug 12, 2005)

All three have arrived, on a quick inspection, the Anvil and the Enfield have broken main springs, the small Smiths is very nice but is a bit gummed up inside, having probably stood on a mantel above a coal fire for years, I will tackle this first as it seems the easiest.

I presume the best place to find a main spring would be Cousins or somewhere similar, or an original from elsewhere, will keep posted.


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## dave993cars (Aug 12, 2005)

Hi All

Just an update, the small Smiths I have managed to get going, but will need to dismantle and clean, some one has (I thank) smotherd it in oil, see the oil on the Balance Wheel in the photo.



The Elgin has a broken Main Spring, is pretty grubby and has a broken Click Spring but I think is salvagable.



The Anvil, the movement I wanted to practice on, has a broken Main Spring and looks as if a granade has went off inside, I can dismantle it without braking it, (thats for sure) but I can't see any bent or damaged cogs or shafts, the plates seem to have parted momentarly and allowed parts to drop out, let me know what you think.





Plenty of practice, but might get 2 clocks out of it.

Dave S


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## dave993cars (Aug 12, 2005)

Another little update, I have stripped and cleaned the Smiths, as you will see from the photos it was very grubby, I took the advice of the link I posted, and cleaned all the Pivot holes with wood (like cocktail sticks), sprayed all the moving parts with Gunk (don't know if I can mention this product) then wash off and dry, I then oiled the parts when rebuilding and once complete I oiled the pivot holes, I then ran for 12 hours and adjusted to the correct time, you may notice that I had to slow the movment down quite a bit as it was running fast, (is this normal ?), on to the Enfield next which is half complete.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Good work there already - - wonder if the exploding plates was maybe the spring going when a full wind was taking place?  - - or dropped?


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## dave993cars (Aug 12, 2005)

mel said:


> Good work there already - - wonder if the exploding plates was maybe the spring going when a full wind was taking place?  - - or dropped?


Hi Mel

Ever thought of being a psychic, now that I have had a good look at it, the lugs for holding the movement are slightly bent and there is some small damage inside the case, sympathetic to it being dropped, I am also not sure the mainspring is broken, on the Enfield, when I removed the spring from the barrel it wasn't broken, it looked like it had been turned the wrong way (unwound) maybe when the spring was fully wound down, hence the spring was not engaging in the tab on the inside of the barrel, I just inspected, cleaned, lubricated and put it back in place (sounds easy when you say it very quick), but will see when I start to dismantle the Anvil.

Dave S


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Dropped Clocks - - been there, teeshirt in the wardrobe :lol:


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## dave993cars (Aug 12, 2005)

It's always a learning curve this life, when taking an Enfield movement to bits, remember to mark where the support for the shaft that carries the "Crutch" is positioned (never thought I would write the word crutch in a reply on the forum), seemingly this is its title, I had a pig of a time (hours) to get the dam thing to tick for more than a few seconds, I'm now an expert in listening to a clock through a screw driver for the correct "Tic Tok" now on test and been running for 20 hours and keeping reasonable time.

A question for the clock guys, what should you expect from these mantel clocks by way of keeping time, could you get + or - 30 seconds a day, is that possible ? or better.

Now on to the Anvil, I have managed to get it going, used the mainspring barrel from the chimes, after slightly opening the plates ever so slightly (to release the trapped shafts and cogs) checked for damage, the fitted them back in place, been running for 4 hours now, will probably let it run until Sunday (if it does) then attempt the big strip, will keep you all informed, hope you all don't mind me prattling on but I hope if only one experience helps someone else, it's worth it.


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## dobra (Aug 20, 2009)

Well done Dave, making progress. Regarding timekeeping, I have a German mantel alarm which is keeping about 2 minutes over 2 days. Probably 1940's model.

Mike


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

When I worked for SMITHS clocks they were expected to be around +/- 30s per day easily after bedding in from new, but that was in the 70's when I were but a lad :rofl2: and kept serviced.

What a "golden oldie" might manage 

Good work Dave, all sounding great! :yes: and prattling is good, indeed yes! :lol:


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## dave993cars (Aug 12, 2005)

Do you realise my wife thinks I've left home, the amount of time I have spent in the spare room with clocks, started to look closely at the Anvil before dismantling, and as I was going to remove the mainspring I started there, unfortunately the teeth on the barrel for the mainspring has been damaged, and I don't think it can be saved, fortunately I found two on a well known auction site (being sold as a pair) so for Â£7.00 I have two heading my way, cheaper than a mainspring, the barrel is also worn where the shaft protrudes through, probably the reason the mainspring unwound and caused the need for a strip down, I checked the gear that the meshes with the barrel and it is OK.


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## dave993cars (Aug 12, 2005)

Hi All

I have been laid up with the latest round of the flu, so not much had been done, the barrels arrived and one was OK, the other showed signs of wear, I also fully stripped the anvil movement, being very careful as I thought, a bit of advise, take as many photos as you think necessary then take some more, luckily I had my friends movement to check against, as I had a problem with two cogs, both very similar both could be in any of two places (wouldn't work of coarse), but got there in the end, cleaned oiled and reassembled, now being a Westminster chime (wish I had checked the chime sequence) when rebuilt, I had to spend a few hours getting all the timing right, I still have a bit of tinkering to do to get it to tick for more than 5-6 min, I marked the crutch this time but it must be slightly out, unless I have missed something, my friends movement will be next once I have this running properly.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

All looking nicely clean now, get ;em running well and THEY SHOULD GET YOU TER MONEY BACK NO PROBS :lol: sold as serviced!


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

yep next buyer caveat emptor


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## mcb2007 (Dec 12, 2013)

Nigelp said:


> yep next buyer caveat emptor


Yep wot e sed


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## dave993cars (Aug 12, 2005)

Hi All

Started on the friends Perivale Movement, couple of problems I need some help with, first, one of the barrels has been machined, I presume to repair damaged teeth, question is do I replace or not, secondly the main shaft support (see photo) is badly worn, can this be repaired or do I find another second hand movement (which coluld also have issues) but hope to make one out of two, thanks in advance.


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## dave993cars (Aug 12, 2005)

mcb2007 said:


> Nigelp said:
> 
> 
> > yep next buyer caveat emptor
> ...


Don't remember saying I was going to sell them ?


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