# Ubuntu



## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

I'm looking to install Linux onto an IBM T41 Laptop, finally hacked off with XP, ain't gonna spend on Vista.

What about Ubuntu - I have heard good things about it?

I'm not Linux savvy, but not too frightened about getting down and dirty as long as I don't have to learn programming skills and as long as I can get the driver support for the T41.

Must Have List

+++++++++

Built in WiFi adaptor support

networking (natch)

web publishing (a la Frontpage)

Photo manipulation (a la photoshop)

Openoffice

Thunderbird

Firefox

FTP

graphical desktop preferred.

everything else optional

All advice listened to.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

I've not used it either, but feedback I've have from trusted sources that have is that it's really a good'un. Yep, I'd say go for it


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

I'd wait for the next (full) version of PCLinuxOS (version .94 or 2007, depends how they name it), due quite soon.

Ubuntu is good but I don't care for the Gnome desktop, I prefer KDE. Ubuntu doesn't have the configurability from a GUI that PCLOS and Mandriva do with Hard Drake. This can be very important if you don't want to mess about setting up hardware at command line level.

George,

Download a few of the top Linux live CDs and see how they work with your machine, that's my best advice.

If XP isn't working properly there must be a reason, it's pretty solid on machines that are designed to work with it as long as the install is sound and fully updated.

Windows Vista is not something anyone using and updated XP installation needs to contemplate, in fact, it may be more problematic at this stage of its development.

Forget Vista unless your PC has the latest (top of the line) hardware or you intend buying a new PC. Imo.

A Linux distro may work like a charm or it could need a lot of input to get it running on some hardware. Once running it will be stable and safe with no virus or spyware intrusion.

Linux may take more effort to get running on some machines than Windows XP would, keep that in mind.

But, if you like and adventure........................

Use a Linux live CD!


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

> Ubuntu is good but I don't care for the Gnome desktop, I prefer KDE. Ubuntu doesn't have the configurability from a GUI that PCLOS and Mandriva do with Hard Drake.


Is it just me or is this just the result of random key hitting?









Just kidding, how on earth did it get the name 'Ubuntu?


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Apparently it's a Zulu word which means "humanity towards others".

If you don't like GNOME (I don't) you can get Kubuntu which uses KDE instead


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## Malersh (May 19, 2005)

I'm running dual boot Ubuntu / XP (dapper drake) and this was very easy to set up using the installer on the Ubuntu live ISO, which provides a wizard to get you to a dual boot state. This assumes settings for you, so it's good for the beginner - you can also configure yourself if you wish.

I think Ubuntu is now one of the leading distros - there was loads of support on the internet when I needed help setting up my wireless card. I recommend it - and am very happy with the GUI...


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## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

Well, the story so far - also entitled "Compare and Contrast"! 

*The XP Story.*

Took the plunge yesterday. I backed up all my stuff - didn't forget anything. And started the re-install at around 6:00pm.

Had my XP-SP2 install disk, re-formattted my HD with 2 partitions, and reinstalled OK.

First Problem - XP did not really recognise it was on an IBM T41 and as part of that problem it did not recognise any of the built in Intel chipset containing such useful items as the built in ethernet card or WiFi or trackpoint or sound card, or - well - you get the point. SO, I could not network with my back up computer to download the IBM drivers.

First Solution - use my server PC to log onto Lenovo support site to hunt for updated drivers. (I had older versions, but thought - what the heck, put new ones in. Downloaded the WiFi driver burned a CD-RW, loaded onto IBM. No Deal, WiFi not recognised.

OK - So I'll download the Ethernet driver and connect directly to the router. Back to Lenovo, download the driver, burn a CD-RW, load onto IBM. No Deal, Ethernet not recognised.

OK - read some more Lenovo help stuff - seems I need "Access Control" software. Back to Lenovo, download the driver, burn a CD-RW, load onto IBM. No Deal, Access Control won't start, complains about unrecognised hardware.

OK - read some more Lenovo help stuff - seems I need "Hot Keys" software so that I can activate WiFi by using the dedicated keys. Back to Lenovo, download the driver, burn a CD-RW, load onto IBM. No Deal, Hot Keys seems to be installed but WiFi will not activate.

Now getting late. Post on this forum about thinking about Linux - Ubuntu in particular as have read about it - must be better than this. Download an ISO of Ubuntu whilst browsing even more Lenovo help files.

OK - read some more Lenovo help stuff - seems I need might actually need the "Intel Chipset configuration utility" software so that I can convince Windows XP-SP2 that it is actually talking to an Intel Chipset. Back to Lenovo, download the driver, burn a CD-RW, but now midnight so really can't be arsed to faff about any more tonight.

Next day - load onto IBM. Fu**ing Yippee. Finally - the WiFi light winks on. XP merrily informs me it has found an Intel Chipset and sundry other devices.

Finally manage to enter my router details and make a connection. Windows then spends the next half an hour downloading no less that 72 "Critical Updates", plus IE 7, whilst I sit twiddling my thumbs some more, reading a little more about Ubuntu, and burning the ISO onto a CD.

Finally got XP-SP2 installed, stable, fully updated, and only the sound system and Display driver not fully recognised and working on base level compatibility.

AT LEAST 6 HOURS WORTH. And I still only have XP and an Antivirus program loaded - no apps, no email.



The Ubuntu story.

Loaded the Live CD into the IBM T41 and booted it, with just a little trepidation. After all - XP is designed to be ultra compatible - Ubuntu is free - which must be at the expense of compatibility and therefore must require just as much time, if not more time than XP, hunting for drivers - only I don't know how on earth to install Linux drivers.

*3 minutes later, I had a fully operational system*, GUI driven, sound system fully working, trackpad fully working, WiFi enabled, Ethernet configured - in short - it new all about and had provided drivers for anything I had. OpenOffice ready installed, Firefox 2.0 fully installed, The GIMP fully installed, working email, working video player, working audio files player. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the picture. In short - a full suite of all the most common productivity applications, ready installed and fully ready for use - right off the CD.

I'M A CONVERT.

What gets me, is with all of their zillions of development dosh, hundreds of developers, and years of experience, why the fu88 can't XP recognise an industry standard, Intel box, (made by IBM ferchrissake) right off?

When a bunch of "geeks" sitting in a shed somewhere (I know I over simplify - but in relative terms, the comparison is valid) who can only really guess what kind of home-made collection of PC bits their OS will end up on, get it so right,

*and all for FREE!!!!!*

And it's not just Ubuntu either - I did the same thing last year with Fedora. And I'm sure a lot of the other distros are just as competent.

I for one will be sticking with Linux, just as soon as I have decided on which flavour. I'll probably go with Ubuntu or with Kubuntu with the KDE Gui, just as soon as I can evaluate it.

For anyone nervous about Linux, I would seriously reccomend creating a Live CD (Like Stan said) and as long as your PC can boot from your CD, you can give it a go. I promise - you will seriously consider the entire meaning of free operating systems that quite simply *"Just Work."* And equally seriously consider giving over priced "bloatware" the heave-ho once and for all.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Glad you had such a positive experience with Ubuntu and Linux in general George, that's what I like to hear. 

I'm surprised Windows XP was such a pain on your machine, did you have the original installation disks for it?

With laptops, a Windows XP CD is often supplemented by a manufacturers CD that contains the drivers needed by the proprietary hardware those makers put in their laptops.

Often, Windows update will sort out most driver issues if you can connect to the internet by some means.

Not that I'm defending M$ Windows in any way. 

No Linux distro has managed the result you achieved on my old HP Omnibook XE2 DI, in fact, Windows 98 wasn't so hot and the machine was "designed" for it. :*****:

I've just spent 2 days installing Win2K on this machine, it took time to find the drivers on HPs site but it was well worth it. This old laptop works well, better than with anything else so far. Perhaps it was designed for Win2K and not 98?









HP supports Windows and Linux (with drivers etc) for newer machines but not older ones.

I may have to look to HP for my next computer, it has a more open mind about the software it can support than most firms do.


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## murph (Aug 14, 2006)

Linux always used to be good with outdated and obscure hardware back when I used it. Then again it wasn't so good with the latest hardware. I don't know if it's still the same as I haven't really used it since something like redhat 5 or 6. I was going to try suse again when I bought an Acer 8000 series laptop but I think it didn't play very well with some of the hardware and I seem to recall ATI weren't very good at releasing drivers. When I bought this Dell xps laptop I thought about it again but never got round to it even though nvidia seem to support linux more than ati.

I'll have to consider it again.


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## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

Stan - I didn't have the disks as it is an 'old' work laptop, and they supply them to staff with wiped HDs to avoid any data protection and/or licensing issues. So I had to use an unregistered XP-SP2 standard install disk. So of course it did not have the OEM scripts to load the hardware specific driver sets.

After looking very hard at Lenovo's support files - what I should have done was to interrupt the standard XP install just after it loaded all of the installation files onto the hard disk, and create a new OEM Install directory containing all of the required drivers and the crucially important Intel Chipset files, which enable XP to figure out what driver goes with which bit of Intel chippery.

If I had to do it again - I would know what to do - Isn't it always the case!!!!

Anyhoo - I'm going to keep using Ubuntu for a while to get the feel of it.

What's really putting me off slightly is trying to find a decent HTML editor for it, as I manage a website for our local scout group, which has some Frontpage extensions on it. It would be a royal pain if I had to rework the website to remove the FP bits.

SO - anyone got any ideas about their favorite Linux HTML editor? Does it have a Ubuntu port?


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

George,

Sounds like your problems were much the same as mine when I installed Win2k on my old laptop. I've got all the drivers and most of the updates burned to CD now, so the next install should be simple, if long winded. Laptops are often a PITA due to all the proprietory hardware in them.

Many Linux distros get the audio portion of my combined modem/ sound card working but nothing (except Windows XP, which runs like a wounded dog on the XE2) will get the modem to work.







At least there are drivers for Win2K on the HP website, and Win2K runs far faster than XP does on this old bucket.

This should meet you web editing needs and will most likely be in the Ubuntu repos (most things are  ):-

http://www.nvu.com/index.php

There are versions for Windows and Mac too, if anyone's interested.


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## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

Thanks for the comments Stan.

Ubuntu themselves seem to rate N-vu as well as Bluefish, although Bluefish seems to be more of a development tool than a web editor.

Now I suppose I have to choose look and feel: Gnome, KDE or Xfce. Any views?

I think there are live CD's of all three: Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Xubuntu - unsurprisingly! So I guess I'll need to take the time to compare.

Cheers.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

I think Nvu is no longer in development









However, much of it appears to be merged with either Mozilla's new Composer/Editor project and/or KompoZer, so they may be worth checking out.


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## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

Yeah, I read that. Still - I think I'll go with it for now as there is an independant maintainer of it. I can use it until such time as it's replacement goes live.

I think I've also settled on Gnome for now, but I might also install KDE and flick between them till I'm settled.

Incidentally, does anyone know of a linux app to transfer music to an iPod?


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## quoll (Apr 20, 2006)

I'm a bit late to this thread or would have commented earlier. I am pleased (and not surprised) you had such an easy install experience. Ububtu has come a long way in the last few years.

I now run 6.10 (Edgy) as my primary OS and have been a Linux enthusiast for years. One thing that has been sorted out quite recently is Wi-Fi, so I am glad that set up well for you. You will find some issues playing/editing etc. commercial-grade media files (e.g playing a DVD) - but a search on the Ubuntu forum will sort that out for you. (Look for 'Restricted Formats').

NVU is in the Ubuntu repositories - use Synaptic to search for nvu. It is no longer in development I believe but still very popular. You could also try Screem or Amaya, both of which are also in the repositories. Or have a browse through this resource:

http://webdesign.about.com/od/htmleditors/...oring_Tools.htm

Personally I prefer Gnome, but you can also get KDE (kubuntu) and XFCE (Xubuntu). XFCE is good for slower machines. XFCE looks like a cut-down Gnome, so if you don't like Gnome....

You also have the desktop managers Beryl and Compiz to explore - both do 3D whizzy stuff like Microsh**te Vista. Frankly pointless, but pretty.

For the iPod, have a look at:

http://www.ipodlinux.org/Main_Page


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

I don't understand any of this thread
















I'm still running WindowsXP & I've yet to have any problems with it - have I just been lucky?







?


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## Robert (Jul 26, 2006)

pauluspaolo said:


> I don't understand any of this thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm with you on this one. Keep thinking they are spelling mistakes - strange phrases or abbreviations that I've never seen before.

As well as learning about watches I'm learning new things about computers too


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## RuskyWatchLover (Nov 12, 2006)

pauluspaolo said:


> I don't understand any of this thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I saw Ubuntu as the title and just wanted to add my own experience. I requested the free CDs and they came in about a week so I was quite pleased.

Then I tried to install Kubuntu on my Sony Vaio. I put the CD in and it all started installing so I waited... and waited... and waited.... About two days later it came up with an error. When I restarted to try and get rid of it, I couldn't even access the hard drive with a boot disk. I finally got an old Windows 98 bootdisk and tried to use fdisk but not even fdisk /mbr (the thing that clears the boot sector) would work. It just kept coming up with gobbledegook. I couldn't get the rubbish off my computer!

So I tried again by booting off the "Ubuntu" (not Kubuntu") disk and waited for another day... and it installed. Everything ran really slowly and there was no support for the screen, sound or modem - and nothing to play MP3s with. But at least I could now reboot with XP and see the hard drive again to wipe it and reformat.

XP worked perfectly, took about an hour to install and found every piece of hardware I had. So I know which one I trust. It never crashes on my computer either... which amazes me as all previous Windows have always had "blue screens of death" every couple of hours.

Linux seems to be for people who want to spend a lot of time fiddling with things on their computers trying to get them to work. XP is the way to go if you just want to switch on and get some work done.

I'm looking forward to trying out Vista though.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Vista looks good but it's very expensive. I'm lucky in that the company I work for pays for it







I was looking at software on Amazon the other day. If you buy the "Ultimate" version of Vista together with the top new version of Office 2007 that'll set you back nearly Â£1000







Or, $1000 if you get it from America!

Among the many advantages of Linux which I shan't bore you with, one very real benefit is that you can get an OS and a copy of Open Office for Â£0.00









But yes, if you have some unusual hardware you may run into problems and have to wait for someone to write a specific driver for it before it'll work. Laptops especially and certain brands of PC are known to be troublesome in this area.


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## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

I felt the same before the very last time I re-installed XP. I have always liked XP, I still like XP, I still have a HD with XP on it.

In fact - I just re-installed XP on my laptop...

Then the WiFi driver

Then an Antivirus prog (vital on XP)

Then the proper drivers for my PC

Then an email client

Then OpenOffice

Then a DVD player

Then I was just about productive.

I still have to add, a graphics editor, a decent multimedia player, web editor and FTP client before I will become proper productive, with all the MAIN programs that I regularly use.

BUT

Even from the Live CD, when I installed Ubuntu:

WiFi just worked

Antivirus prog - not really needed on Linux, but may be needed in future,

Then the proper drivers for my PC - Ubuntu recognised the whole damm thing right off the CD.

Then an email client - supplied as standard

Then OpenOffice - supplied as standard

DVD player - supplied as standard (and a graphics editor, and other stuff as well.)

*I was just about productive right after booting up.*

After thousands of updates (seemingly every week), security patches, spyware scans, virus warnings, I have finally just about reached the end of my tether and think it's time for a change

*And there are Penguins on the horizon*









Just try it - take any preconceived notions you may have about Linux and leave them aside for a few hours and give a Live CD of Ubuntu a try.

1. Visit the Ubuntu website

2. Download the CD Image and burn it.

3. Boot from the CD.

What have you got to lose?


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Don't forget though that most of the big Linux distros, (Ubuntu included) provide regular updates to their software, some of which fix critical security problems. These updates are often quite big and may take some time, although you usually don't need to reboot afterwards


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

ESL said:


> I felt the same before the very last time I re-installed XP. I have always liked XP, I still like XP, I still have a HD with XP on it.
> 
> In fact - I just re-installed XP on my laptop...
> 
> ...


What's the point in changing just for the sake of it??

If it ain't broke don't fix it & I've never had any problems with XP - no blue screens of death, no hanging, no stalling & no crashing! The updating doesn't take that long (or hasn't done yet!) & my anti-virus software updates itself (if/when it needs to) when I switch the pc on. I run scans regularly & have yet to have a serious virus problem. I suppose I'm a casual pc user in that I use it regularly but only really for fun/enjoyment & *not* for work - usually for browsing the internet & playing the occasional game - Half Life 2 at the mo (& I don't play online). There should probably be a bit of word processing & photo manipulation/resizing thrown in there too, as well as a bit of cd burning/ripping too.

If I was having massive problems with XP then I'd definitely change but I'm pretty happy with it really - it's streets ahead of 2000 professional which is what I had installed before which did have lots of bugs


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## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

> What's the point in changing just for the sake of it??


With that kind of thinking, man would never have left his cave.










It's about having a choice, "just for the sake of it" is precisely why I changed - because I could, because it's the way we learn things, gain experience, have opinions.

If you are happy with XP, then that's fine by me.


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

jasonm said:


> > Ubuntu is good but I don't care for the Gnome desktop, I prefer KDE. Ubuntu doesn't have the configurability from a GUI that PCLOS and Mandriva do with Hard Drake.
> 
> 
> Is it just me or is this just the result of random key hitting?
> ...


Ugh?







My thought entirely Jase.......I think the cat ran across the keyboard


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## RuskyWatchLover (Nov 12, 2006)

ESL said:


> With that kind of thinking, man would never have left his cave.


I like my cave. I'm even going to do some pictures of a woolly mammoth on the walls later.


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## limey (Aug 24, 2006)

Rich H. and anyone else thinking about switching to Vista should know that you can actually buy the upgrade version rather than the full version.

There is a trick to installling, probably legal because MS made it work this way and their support is aware of it and uses this as a workaround.

You simply install Vista without filling in the key, then re-install and it detects the copy you just installed as the valid upgradeable version.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

The Upgrade version is still a lot more expensive than Linux though  And I wonder what happens a few months later when you come to download all the updates and MS tries to "validate" your upgrade copy of Windows? Will it always be considered valid I wonder?

Still, I don't have to pay for it anyway


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