# Hardlex vs sapphire



## Robg45 (Jan 5, 2017)

Hi , after advice and is it worth it ?

Just bought a new Seiko prospex solar Air diver with black / blue bezel ,( SSC017P1)

ok not the most expensive watch but loved the look of it ... it has Seiko Hardlex Crystal... question , is this any good ???? And I know it all depends on what I do , how I look after it ...

i have a 10 yr old TIssot T Race , that has sapphire Crystal and is as new as the day I bought it ... ok , I don't wear it that often which helps , but bought the Seiko as a more daily watch .. comparing them together , the TISSOT sapphire glass has a much better lustre than the Seiko and that is brand new , ,,,

Could I find somewhere who can replace the Crystal with a sapphire type ??? Would it be worth it ... I just don't know the quality of this Hardlex stuff , is it of quality ? I looking at the sapphire on the Tissot , it looks a better glass

I see the top end Seiko actually use sapphire !

Cheers for any advice you can give me ...

rob


----------



## stolid (Aug 21, 2009)

Hi Rob, welcome to the forum.

The Hardlex can get scratched, if you are unlucky, but I don't think there is much chance you could break it.

Given the price of the air diver, I would only consider swapping the crystal if I happened to ding the old one badly.

Here is mine, with scratch just next to the hour hand, mainly visible as a shadow on the dial. I decided to leave it in the end (it is a diver after all) Perhaps it could even be polished out?

Keep in mind that if a sapphire crystal is dead flat, then you won't get the interesting refraction around the perimeter, so it might look a bit lifeless in comparison.


----------



## Robg45 (Jan 5, 2017)

Cheers for that , yes , that's what the wife is saying , " if it's not broke don't fix it " !!!

Is yours a domed glass ? This is flat on this prospex , I'm new to Seiko I'm afraid , although I know there a good watch ...

im a fuss pot at heart and like things perfect .. but yes as you say , wait , and if it gets a knock .. I got it at a sale price of £205 down from £279.00 ( high street ) I did see it at 190.00 on the favourite auction site but wanted it from a shop with its warranty !

I think that was a good price ..don't know much about the solar power on these either and how good it is .. was good reading lol

cheers again for the info


----------



## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

Hardlex is a good mineral glass. Sapphire is a step up.


----------



## Robg45 (Jan 5, 2017)

*
%5BURL=http://s164.photobucket.com/user/RJG1964/media/IMG_2175_zpsv9gpsfdt.jpg.html%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u31/RJG1964/IMG_2175_zpsv9gpsfdt.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5D
*


----------



## xellos99 (Dec 17, 2015)

You might be able to get an aftermarket sapp for it. I found some easily for Seiko monsters at about £30 from some Chinese firm. I only planned to do it after the hardlex became aged and old looking, would not bother at new state. Not sure if they make them for that particular model but google some key words and see if you can find anything.


----------



## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

Sapphire is near impossible to scratch but more brittle, thus prone to cracking or shattering if dropped wrong or from too high up.

Hardlex is basically a hardened mineral crystal. Seiko's own. Not a lot can scratch it but it can be scratched by more materials than sapphire can. Flip side of that coin is that it's less brittle and very very unlikely to crack or shatter.

I used to be a snob with watches. Swiss only. Sapphire only. Etc. But I've come to find that any mineral crystal is fine and suitable. Unless you're a complete klutz bumping into many hard surfaces with sharp edges, your watch crystal will stay clear from scratches.

Now would I prefer sapphire, yes absolutely. I've never seen or heard of a single case on one cracking or shattering where I have seen a mineral crystal scratched. But for the cost, it's just not worth it. That's my take on the subject.


----------



## gift (Jan 5, 2017)

Hardlex glass than sapphire almost.

--------------------

A symbol of men's identity watches and unique table clock


----------



## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

I've always found Hardlex very easy to scratch, in fact I scratched the last 007 diver I had on the very first day that I owned it and I'm not tough at all on watches. Sapphire is a completely different proposition though.


----------



## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

artistmike said:


> I've always found Hardlex very easy to scratch, in fact I scratched the last 007 diver I had on the very first day that I owned it and I'm not tough at all on watches. Sapphire is a completely different proposition though.


 Wow... And how? What did you bump it against?


----------



## Seikotherapy (Nov 29, 2016)

The edge of my SNKG09J has chipped from some impact and there is also a scratch across the face of the Hardlex from two separate incidents and although it's a daily wear watch I'm not especially clumsy and these happened within a year of owning.

I'll be ordering a replacement glass (sapphire if I can) and the tools to fit it soon.


----------



## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

JayDeep said:


> Wow... And how? What did you bump it against?


 If I remember correctly it was a flowerpot while I was out in the garden doing some re-potting.


----------



## Timez Own (Oct 19, 2013)

artistmike said:


> I've always found Hardlex very easy to scratch, in fact I scratched the last 007 diver I had on the very first day that I owned it and I'm not tough at all on watches. Sapphire is a completely different proposition though.


 Scratched one of my hardlex watches within a few days having brushed against some gravel. :angry: I think this stuff should only be used for dress watches.

Sapphire? Still abuse it every day and I defy anyone to find a mark on it. :thumbsup:


----------



## Robg45 (Jan 5, 2017)

Excuse the attempt of a pic !!!

Yes , I have mailed a few online stores , got replies today , none of them would be able to do this as don't have one for this model , weather because it's new I don't know ... I don't think the actual model is that new ..mine be it the face lift as has the prospex logo in place of the word solar , and solar has been moved to the bottom of the dial , apart from that I think it's the same , but as said , how old is this model ... I see a few mention not worth it because of cost ...what we talking here ?? I'm thinking 100.00 all in ..

yes that does really outweigh the price in a way as watch retail at 279.00 , did get for £ 205 sale price from the goldsmiths store ...

i want to wear this more than I do the Tissot but just don't want it ending up scratched ... and as now see comments regarding. For and against and for seems to come out tops , I think I will persue this .. I shall keep hunting ...I guess I could always source the parts needed myself then get a jeweller to do this ...


----------



## Robg45 (Jan 5, 2017)

%5BURL=http://s164.photobucket.com/user/RJG1964/media/IMG_2183_zpsneneotvx.jpg.html%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u31/RJG1964/IMG_2183_zpsneneotvx.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5D

http://s164.photobucket.com/user/RJG1964/library/


----------



## Robg45 (Jan 5, 2017)

Please ignore my poor attempts at trying to put pics up lol ... not used p/bucket for a long time and forgetting how to use it !!!


----------



## WatchesRmypassion (Jan 3, 2017)

Where diamond is 10 on the scale sapphire is 9!

I would prefer sapphire over hardlex anytime.

You and your Seiko will benifit from the upgrade to sapphire in the long run.


----------



## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

Timez Own said:


> Scratched one of my hardlex watches within a few days having brushed against some gravel. :angry: I think this stuff should only be used for dress watches.
> 
> Sapphire? Still abuse it every day and I defy anyone to find a mark on it. :thumbsup:


 Yes gravel has components capable of scratching a mineral crystal. Why would you be so abusive to a watch as to rub it into gravel?

I still don't understand people in general. Never have. Never will. They complain about things but are the sole cause of them. If you work with our around such material as gravel you shouldn't be wearing a watch at all. If it was a one off situation then it was just that... An unfortunate circumstance. Nothing else. No fault of the crystal itself. Just you putting it in that situation.


----------



## Rotundus (May 7, 2012)

Sapphire every time. I have marked every softex crystal on every Seiko that I have ever owned. Currently only one Seiko and it has sapphire.

Have never ever managed to put a mark on any sapphire crystal on any watch that I have ever owned.

Either sapphire or acrylic is the way to go crystal-wise. Softex is the worst if both worlds , marks too easily and cannot be polished out.

Have dropped and bashed various sapphire fitted timepieces but never with any harm to the crystal. I don't mind a bit of wabi to the case or strap but a damaged crystal is a big no no for me.

Des.


----------



## blowin (Dec 23, 2016)

I scratched the Hardlex on my Seiko BFK within 24 hours of getting it. It's what puts me off so many of the Seiko divers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Timez Own (Oct 19, 2013)

JayDeep said:


> Yes gravel has components capable of scratching a mineral crystal. Why would you be so abusive to a watch as to rub it into gravel?
> 
> I still don't understand people in general. Never have. Never will. They complain about things but are the sole cause of them. If you work with our around such material as gravel you shouldn't be wearing a watch at all. If it was a one off situation then it was just that... An unfortunate circumstance. Nothing else. No fault of the crystal itself. Just you putting it in that situation.


 You make it sound like I went looking for some gravel! Indeed what sort of moron would do that?

Hardlex is put on many watches where the owner is likely to scratch it on something hard, divers for example. Not fit for purpose imho!


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

I have never had a problem with Hardlex used by Seiko though I do understand how many will be put off by any kind of mineral crystal as once scratched you may as well replace. My guess Seiko use Hardlex in their divers as its more fit for purpose for a divers watch over sapphire long before the days when a divers watch were worn on the understanding they didn't go near water and were used only to post "lume shots" on watch forums or removed from wrist (so as not to scratch the bracelet) and placed on an office desk.

I would never be put off buying a Seiko because it had Hardlex crystal but I may be put off from buying from another brand using mineral crystal especially when used on dress watches.


----------



## ong (Jul 31, 2008)

Timez Own said:


> You make it sound like I went looking for some gravel! Indeed what sort of moron would do that?
> 
> Hardlex is put on many watches where the owner is likely to scratch it on something hard, divers for example. Not fit for purpose imho!


 My experience with Hardlex left me with a distinct bad taste. I only work in an office but managed to scratch mine quite badly in two years ownership. Good part was that Roy replaced the Hardlex with another form of mineral crystal and so far no problems. I believe Hardlex is shatter resistant rather than scratch proof. Probably more suitable to use under water although as another poster said , most divers watches never see H2O.


----------



## Timez Own (Oct 19, 2013)

ong said:


> My experience with Hardlex left me with a distinct bad taste. I only work in an office but managed to scratch mine quite badly in two years ownership. Good part was that Roy replaced the Hardlex with another form of mineral crystal and so far no problems. I believe Hardlex is shatter resistant rather than scratch proof. Probably more suitable to use under water although as another poster said , most divers watches never see H2O.


 I can see the H2O point but think it is disgraceful that a maker would use this as an excuse not to make a watch properly. If a watch has been made to look like it can do a job, then it should be up to the task imho

Would anyone be happy to buy a Ferrari that could only do the legal speed limit? What's the point when you take it for a track day? It looks like it can do the job but it can't deliver.

A knife with a soft edge, tyres with no grip, water with no H..............


----------



## chris_s (Sep 13, 2009)

Would agree sapphire is the way to go, and all my decent watches have it. That said i've shattered 3 over the years, which can get expensive, not least getting the glass out of the movement, and one (about 10 years ago) got very badly scratched - mainly from scrapping on quartz and granite rocks whilst kayaking, so don't believe all that is said about them being scratch proof - they ain't.


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Timez Own said:


> I can see the H2O point but think it is disgraceful that a maker would use this as an excuse not to make a watch properly. If a watch has been made to look like it can do a job, then it should be up to the task imho
> 
> Would anyone be happy to buy a Ferrari that could only do the legal speed limit? What's the point when you take it for a track day? It looks like it can do the job but it can't deliver.
> 
> A knife with a soft edge, tyres with no grip, water with no H..............


 Because a divers watch is meant for, diving. A sports car for the track is built for just that nobody in their right mind would take an F1 car for a spin down the high street. Chefs use specialist knives in their job if they are used to cut the king Edwards for the Sunday roast and end up blunt or wrecked its hardly the fault of the knife, if you have specialist tyres on your car and take them out on roads not suitable for them whose fault is that? Just because the modern owner has fallen for the sales pitch and thinks he is James Bond in his new Omega or Rolex diver or really wants the look but cant quite push the price so gets a Tudor or Ball or something doesn't really change the point of the product.

If you want a real sports watch buy a CWC G10 which has plexi glass so you can just polywatch out any scratches rather than replace a hardlex or sapphire that ends up looking like a dogs breakfast after that weeks camping trip or better still a G Shock. Seiko use sapphire on their £300 SARB watches but Hardlex on their £1500 marine master, one is a dress watch the other a divers watch.

Considering Seiko divers were used by military around the world I think its fair to say they know a thing or two about how to make a watch.


----------



## Rotundus (May 7, 2012)

ok ignore me , i managed to totally misread that one whilst trying (and apparently failing) to multitask


----------



## Robg45 (Jan 5, 2017)

Well many thanks for all the replies... and yes as I thought ..just need to find someone who can fo it ..all Replies so far from jewellers , W/makers is " sorry , wouldn't have a crystal to fit , or " sorry , don't work with these " !

I have found soneone on fleabay. Guy in hong kong, ( Crystaltimes) , he has a sapphire to fit , as quoted him the model , the domed blue type looks nice and would look nice on this ... states perfect fit ...

but would need someone to fit this for me ...

anyone know of any jewellers who would do this ????


----------



## chris_s (Sep 13, 2009)

You can get just about any size of crystal (diameter and thickness) from Cousins - just had a new one fitted whilst the watch was in for a service, and repairer ordered it once he had the old one out and could measure it to get it exact - would have thought the Seiko would be a standard size and not too hard to source. Cost anything up to £30 + fitting and pressure testing (assuming you are worried about water usage)


----------



## Timez Own (Oct 19, 2013)

ZenArcade said:


> Because a divers watch is meant for, diving. A sports car for the track is built for just that nobody in their right mind would take an F1 car for a spin down the high street. Chefs use specialist knives in their job if they are used to cut the king Edwards for the Sunday roast and end up blunt or wrecked its hardly the fault of the knife, if you have specialist tyres on your car and take them out on roads not suitable for them whose fault is that? Just because the modern owner has fallen for the sales pitch and thinks he is James Bond in his new Omega or Rolex diver or really wants the look but cant quite push the price so gets a Tudor or Ball or something doesn't really change the point of the product.
> 
> If you want a real sports watch buy a CWC G10 which has plexi glass so you can just polywatch out any scratches rather than replace a hardlex or sapphire that ends up looking like a dogs breakfast after that weeks camping trip or better still a G Shock. Seiko use sapphire on their £300 SARB watches but Hardlex on their £1500 marine master, one is a dress watch the other a divers watch.
> 
> Considering Seiko divers were used by military around the world I think its fair to say they know a thing or two about how to make a watch.


 F1 cars are not sports cars like a Ferrari that is available to the general public. F1 cars are 'racing cars' and yes they are specialized, and do the job they were designed for, as they are the right tool for the job!

Hardlex looking like a dogs breakfast after camping yes! Sapphire? I don't think so, unless you have been using it as a hammer, in which case a hammer should have been used!

Sometimes sapphire is used as a selling point and not because it is needed on a dress watch, but also I think as the price of the watch rises the choice between cystals because of price becomes less relavent. Why not when it reads better in the add?

CWC G10 a sports watch? I have one and I wouldn't call it a sports watch for a nuber of reasons, one of which being it's lack of water resistance. The G10 is a basic military watch.

On the subject of what the military choose to use, it is often (for the British) the case that the price has a lot to do with who wins the tender so long as the required minimum spec is retained.

Knives? That is just common sense.

When I buy something I want the best I can get for my money, but more than that I want something that will do the job it looks like it can do. So a tough looking divers watch should be tough and hardlex just isn't! I may not go diving with it on but then again I might, in which case I don't want to worry about scraping it.

Hardlex = worry

Sapphire = Comparative peace of mind


----------



## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

I just can't see how it could happen and so often as the claims here would make it seem. The majority of my watches employ mineral crystals, which are commonly regarded as subpart to even hardlex. I've not scratched a single one, ever. The bracelets on them definitely show major desk wear and even the cases have scratches and dents and look terrible. So my watches have seen it all. Bumps in the door jam. Exchanged blows with table edges and corners. Etc.

I definitely avoid rubbing them against brick walls and digging through gravel pits with them on. Maybe I'm just not as active a guy?

I've only ever managed to scratch the outside AR coating on a sapphire before and to this day will not buy a watch with external AR coating. Terrible idea.

So no accusations here, just can't comprehend how it could happen based on my very long term and multiple experiences.


----------



## Timez Own (Oct 19, 2013)

ZenArcade said:


> Because a divers watch is meant for, diviing.


 Indeed and should be able to protect itself as a result


----------



## Timez Own (Oct 19, 2013)

JayDeep said:


> I just can't see how it could happen and so often as the claims here would make it seem. The majority of my watches employ mineral crystals, which are commonly regarded as subpart to even hardlex. I've not scratched a single one, ever. The bracelets on them definitely show major desk wear and even the cases have scratches and dents and look terrible. So my watches have seen it all. Bumps in the door jam. Exchanged blows with table edges and corners. Etc.
> 
> I definitely avoid rubbing them against brick walls and digging through gravel pits with them on. Maybe I'm just not as active a guy?
> 
> ...


 I agree with your view regarding AR externaly.

No accusations here either though I can't understand your inability to comprehend how such damage can happen considering your long term and multiple experiences.


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Timez Own said:


> Indeed and should be able to protect itself as a result


 It does, that's why divers for years have been using Seiko diving watches.



Timez Own said:


> Indeed and should be able to protect itself as a result


 It does, that's why divers for years have been using Seiko diving watches.

My CWC is WR for 5ATM is your fake?


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Timez Own said:


> F1 cars are not sports cars like a Ferrari that is available to the general public. F1 cars are 'racing cars' and yes they are specialized, and do the job they were designed for, as they are the right tool for the job!
> 
> Hardlex looking like a dogs breakfast after camping yes! Sapphire? I don't think so, unless you have been using it as a hammer, in which case a hammer should have been used!
> 
> ...


 You can argue semantics but the reality is this, a divers watch is intended for diving not wandering around the Trafford Centre, not sitting in a pub and not being bashed against a chipboard desk at work. Ferrari cars may be sold to the public but they are not intended for driving off road or up dirt paths either nor are they much good for the Sunday shop down Tesco's so if you take your Ferrari down a dirt path and half the underside of the car is still back in Delamere forest I somehow doubt your dealer is going to stand you your warranty.

Don't know what CWC G10 you had but they are 5ATM water resistant so unless you are going scuba diving in Yorkshire on your camping trip I think your G10 will be just fine. I also said better still get a G Shock but I see you chose to ignore that.

Knives, common sense, of course it is, same goes for watches. Watches have traditionally been built to specifics hence divers, sports watches, dress watches etc. Hence dress watches don't have the same level of water resistance as a divers watch its no use expecting the same specifications for all across the board as you seem to be suggesting with your car comparison (which is false anyway, its that kind of talk that has those idiots driving 4x4 cars in cities usually in the middle of the road because they cant work out the size of their car to the width of the road) Seiko have used a material better suited to a divers watch because that's exactly what its intended for, for the same reason they have Sapphire on a SARB 3 times cheaper than a MM (another point you ignored) or Sapphire on their Grand Seiko.

As I said, the James Bond generation.........


----------



## Timez Own (Oct 19, 2013)

ZenArcade said:


> It does, that's why divers for years have been using Seiko diving watches.
> 
> It does, that's why divers for years have been using Seiko diving watches.
> 
> My CWC is WR for 5ATM is your fake?


 :laugh: Fake? All CWC G10 are WR to 5ATM as is mine. As I stated earlier the G10 is a very basic military watch. 5ATM is pretty poor and was the minimum requirement for this basic watch. CWC did offer better WR rated watches.

Yes divers have been using Seikos for years, they have also been scratching hardlex for years.


----------



## Timez Own (Oct 19, 2013)

Why the hell would you take a Ferrari off road?

Right tools for the job is what I am getting at!

I saw your mention of G-Shocks but as they use neither hardlex or sapphire it didn't seem relavent !


----------



## Timez Own (Oct 19, 2013)

Why do you mention what diver's watch is for? I have already said it is for diving. Unless there has been a lot of rain at the Trafford centre of course! In which case I might very well float off and bang my watch on a concrete building, in which case I would be glad of a sapphire crystal......no doubt



ZenArcade said:


> You can argue semantics but the reality is this, a divers watch is intended for diving not wandering around the Trafford Centre, not sitting in a pub and not being bashed against a chipboard desk at work. Ferrari cars may be sold to the public but they are not intended for driving off road or up dirt paths either nor are they much good for the Sunday shop down Tesco's so if you take your Ferrari down a dirt path and half the underside of the car is still back in Delamere forest I somehow doubt your dealer is going to stand you your warranty.
> 
> Don't know what CWC G10 you had but they are 5ATM water resistant so unless you are going scuba diving in Yorkshire on your camping trip I think your G10 will be just fine. I also said better still get a G Shock but I see you chose to ignore that.
> 
> ...


 Who is ignoring who here? Go back and have a read, I have already addressed what you claim I have ignored


----------



## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

Timez Own said:


> I agree with your view regarding AR externaly.
> 
> No accusations here either though I can't understand your inability to comprehend how such damage can happen considering your long term and multiple experiences.


 Maybe my sleeves just cover more. Lol


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Timez Own said:


> :laugh: Fake? All CWC G10 are WR to 5ATM as is mine. As I stated earlier the G10 is a very basic military watch. 5ATM is pretty poor and was the minimum requirement for this basic watch. CWC did offer better WR rated watches.
> 
> Yes divers have been using Seikos for years, they have also been scratching hardlex for years.


 You said the CWC had no water resistance, its 5ATM how much do you need?

Right tools for the job now we are getting somewhere, diving watch, diving. Dress watch, formal dress wear. Day date watch, work wear.......

They have also be scratching and breaking sapphire too whats your point? Difference is Hardlex is less likely to shatter on impact, something a diver may consider a bit important, someone sitting at a desk however may think different.

You do realise there are different grades of Hardlex too don't you?


----------



## Timez Own (Oct 19, 2013)

JayDeep said:


> Maybe my sleeves just cover more. Lol


 Maybe I'm just clumsy :laugh: :thumbsup:


----------



## Timez Own (Oct 19, 2013)

ZenArcade said:


> You said the CWC had no water resistance, its 5ATM how much do you need?
> 
> Right tools for the job now we are getting somewhere, diving watch, diving. Dress watch, formal dress wear. Day date watch, work wear.......
> 
> ...


 Now we are getting somewhere ? Patronise much?

You do realise there are different thicknesses of sapphire don't you?

If the sapphire on my work watch was going to shatter, it would have by now. No I don't work sitting at a desk made of chipboard, I do however have a metal workbench that I use quite often, and yes I know the grade of steel it is made from incase we need to analise contact between it and my watch crystal at a later date.

I have broken many watches in the past some of which have been seiko's with hardlex in, but I have never broken a sapphire crystal watch, not even when I smacked it by accident on rocks by the sea, which I believe is where diving occurs, no shattering, no scratches on sapphire, just bloody knuckles.

As far as watch crystals go, hardlex to me is the worst of both worlds, it's got nothing going for it looks wise and it is difficult to polish out when scratched. It scratches and (in my personal experience) breaks too easily.

Plexi and Sapphire have it covered as far as I am concerned. Mentioning hardlex in marketing blurb is more likely to put me off a watch and I know I am not alone.

I do however appologise for mentioning the G10's *lack* of WR but 5atm is pretty poor, this has been discussed in depth on this forum previously with differing oppinions of course. I enjoy mine but it is what it is, nothing more.


----------



## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

You know, the only real redeeming quality to Seiko's, as far as I'm concerned, is that so many of them are highly customizable. Yobokies provides sapphire crystal replacement for dozens of popular Seiko divers.

I've used them before and they were amazing.

I'm no advocate for mineral crystals of any kind. Never have been. Sapphire all the way. I wish everyone would just move on to using sapphire solely, but they want to make money and I don't blame them. So they provide affordable options with lower quality crystal and sapphire in their higher quality pieces.

Also allows the snobs to keep their illustrious pedigree so their egos remain completely intact.

Not calling out anyone specific but I do believe at least 80% of online claims of Hardlex or mineral scratching is absolute lies birthed from said snobbery. But I've been wrong before, like once or twice a year it happens. Maybe this year I'm starting off early.


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Timez Own said:


> Now we are getting somewhere ? Patronise much?
> 
> You do realise there are different thicknesses of sapphire don't you?
> 
> ...


 Nope not patronizing just factual. You are editing and quoting several times suggesting you are not actually reading what I have said but selectively skipping then realizing later.

Yes I am very aware of sapphire crystal and even the fact that (stand by for this one) some companies even use a double layer of the stuff! I am glad you know the grade of steel of your watch personally, I am not too interested though nor did I ask. I have had numerous watches in the past, hardlex, plexi, sapphire, mineral and not managed to shatter the crystal on any, nor the watch for that matter (But that's just personal experience, much like yours it has little relevance) The point was simple enough, hardlex is used because its less prone to shatter so preferential on a divers watch, other factors also come into play such as is the crystal domed is it protected by the case etc however, the higher up the tree you go the better quality the hardlex is used by Seiko its not some bog standard mineral crystal we are talking about here to consider it of poor quality is just nonsense.

You may not like hardlex for your own personal preference but other than that, there is no rational reason to dislike it.


----------



## Timez Own (Oct 19, 2013)

Factual? As if! 'stand by for this one' (that quote is patronising in case you don't know how you come across) as you say :laugh:

Practice what you preach. Where did I mention the grade of the steel in my watch?

You did not ask for and niether did I offer such information. Fantasy.

BTW multiple edits due to old tablet playing up. Any other non factual conclusions you would like to jump to?

So you have noticed I don't like hardlex, well done! What other reason do I need other than personal experience with the stuff and also taking into account what many on here have already said about the stuff over the years.


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Timez Own said:


> Factual? As if! 'stand by for this one' (that quote is patronising in case you don't know how you come across) as you say :laugh:
> 
> Practice what you preach. Where did I mention the grade of the steel in my watch?
> 
> ...


 Jesus wept another one!

Patronizing in your opinion only, you don't like facts, your problem not mine.

You mention you know the grade of steel, on a watch forum its reasonable to believe you are referring to a watch.

Not fantasy, just not interested.

Not interested in what electronic device you happen to use either but thanks for clearing that up.

I don't care what you like or dislike (I may have mentioned this before but I will say it again anyway) I am simply stating the facts of the use of a watch material and the reasons for it not the rational of a clumsy individual who doesn't like something because he keeps breaking his watches. The facts are quite simple, hardlex is not only fit for purpose its there for a specific reason and has been for years. No amount of silly comparisons to cars, tyres, or kitchen knives is going to change that nor the poor care of a watch by its owner.


----------



## Timez Own (Oct 19, 2013)

ZenArcade said:


> Jesus wept another one!
> 
> Patronizing in your opinion only, you don't like facts, your problem not mine.
> 
> ...


 The sentence regarding steel did not refer to a watch. Anyone who can read could tell you that. Don't forget to read not just skip over, it is your own advice.

You seem to be going on a bit for someone not interested btw.

Also have you never made a comparison to illustrate a point? It is a very British thing to do you know, and I make no apology for doing so myself.

I don't break watches anymore, I use sapphire thanks.

Industry is there to make money, the best is not always used in manufacturing for this reason. It is my belief that hardlex is a compromise and I don't feel it is the best material for a dive watch or any other for that matter of course IMHO!


----------



## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

'Not calling out anyone specific but I do believe at least 80% of online claims of Hardlex or mineral scratching is absolute lies birthed from said snobbery.'

For which you have absolutely no evidence or reason to suppose that the claim is true. Calling members of this forum liars, on no evidence, is not likely to endear you much here either.

'But I've been wrong before,'

You surprise me....

'like once or twice a year it happens. Maybe this year I'm starting off early.'

It would certainly seem so


----------



## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

JayDeep said:


> I'm no advocate for mineral crystals of any kind. Never have been. Sapphire all the way. I wish everyone would just move on to using sapphire solely, but they want to make money and I don't blame them. So they provide affordable options with lower quality crystal and sapphire in their higher quality pieces.


 Personally I'm damned glad my speedmaster professional does not have a sapphire crystal. Firstly it means that it can be repaired easily should it need it, and secondly, a lot of watch enthusiasts also buy for looks and sapphire doesn't always work with a certain design.


----------



## Timez Own (Oct 19, 2013)

hughlle said:


> Personally I'm damned glad my speedmaster professional does not have a sapphire crystal. Firstly it means that it can be repaired easily should it need it, and secondly, a lot of watch enthusiasts also buy for looks and sapphire doesn't always work with a certain design.


 Plexi? If so I agree wholeheartedly


----------



## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

hughlle said:


> Personally I'm damned glad my speedmaster professional does not have a sapphire crystal. Firstly it means that it can be repaired easily should it need it, and secondly, a lot of watch enthusiasts also buy for looks and sapphire doesn't always work with a certain design.


 Yeah I actually loathe acrylic. Wouldn't touch a watch utilizing it with even a penny of my money. I understand it's what they had way back when and for those whom like to collect vintage pieces it adds to the nostalgia of it. But the constant need to buff out out scratches is way too high of maintenance for me.


----------



## Robg45 (Jan 5, 2017)

Wow , opened up a large can wriggling ones with didn't I just !!!

Well ive given up looking to have this done now as see a replacement would need to come from Oe supplier , who wouldn't supply as the model dosnt have it in the first place ... Also told , an aftermarket , would need to be precise , plus also told !!! Will not fit an aftermarket supplied from the customer that has not been supplied from themselves ....

im no expert by a long shot , just Jo average , who's bought this and would like it to be better lasting ,and as said , like my 10 year old Tissot T Race and is mint , that has sapphire And that watch was under £500 !!!

I signed up on here as thought would be the way to get info on getting it done ... seems to difficult or rather " not going to happen " now done doing my searching and mailing watchmakers etc ...

but it's nice to see I'm not alone regards preference of the Crystals

many thanks for all varied replies on this ....



chris_s said:


> You can get just about any size of crystal (diameter and thickness) from Cousins - just had a new one fitted whilst the watch was in for a service, and repairer ordered it once he had the old one out and could measure it to get it exact - would have thought the Seiko would be a standard size and not too hard to source. Cost anything up to £30 + fitting and pressure testing (assuming you are worried about water usage)


 Sapphire ???


----------



## chris_s (Sep 13, 2009)

Robg45 said:


> Sapphire ???


 Yes - at least the cousins site says so, so no reason to think otherwise

e.g.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/240mm-cousins-sapphire


----------



## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

Don't forget Seiko's very short lived Sapphlex crystal.

Employed this in their high end watches. Claimed it provided the scratch resistance of Sapphire while maintaining the shatter proof qualities of Hardlex and mineral crystals. It was a thin layer of Sapphire bonded to and atop of the standard Hardlex. It was garbage from day one. A large majority of them failed to bond properly and came separated with a hard knock against something or when exposed to hit then cold temps, which many dive watches do frequently.


----------



## Robg45 (Jan 5, 2017)

chris_s said:


> Yes - at least the cousins site says so, so no reason to think otherwise
> 
> e.g.
> 
> https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/240mm-cousins-sapphire


 Ok thanks , will take a look , I think I need to register in there :-/. No hardship if so, only thing again , if they can supply. Is getting someone to fit it ...

as said. Could not find anyone who'd have one plus anyone saying they would fit a non Oe part not supplied by them ...I really didn't think it was that a big deal with a watch glass !!! Shall think again !!!

Also , asits a wat h forum , I thought there would be dealers / watchmakers Pvt or retail who would be available to do the job plus be able to source such items ...

will look on the site suggested and see what they recommend..

cheers chris .


----------



## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

artistmike said:


> 'Not calling out anyone specific but I do believe at least 80% of online claims of Hardlex or mineral scratching is absolute lies birthed from said snobbery.'
> 
> For which you have absolutely no evidence or reason to suppose that the claim is true. Calling members of this forum liars, on no evidence, is not likely to endear you much here either.
> 
> ...


 I call everything as I see it. If nobody is lying then they have no reason to be offended, unless they want to be. That would be odd indeed.

I think you meant I have no evidence or reason to claim the statements UNtrue. For which I refer you to my multiple personal experiences. I will always take my own experiences over words on the internet from people I don't know at all. Thus I have overwhelming reason.

But, again, I'll always admit I could be wrong. Even if such is the case nobody died in the making of this error, so I'm good with it.


----------



## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

JayDeep said:


> I think you meant I have no evidence or reason to claim the statements UNtrue.


 No, I meant precisely what I said, if you are making the claim that 80% of people are lying regarding Hardlex or Mineral crystals scratching then, as the one making the claim, the burden of proof is on you to justify it. As you have appear to have given absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the members on here are lying, you may want to re-think your attitudes towards them.


----------



## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

artistmike said:


> No, I meant precisely what I said, if you are making the claim that 80% of people are lying regarding Hardlex or Mineral crystals scratching then, as the one making the claim, the burden of proof is on you to justify it. As you have appear to have given absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the members on here are lying, you may want to re-think your attitudes towards them.


 There is no burden of proof on either side here because both are no more than words. They can't prove that they scratched their mineral crystal in the way that they claim. I could only show the purchase date of my mineral crystal watches and the condition of them currently but that wouldn't prove that I've worn them at all, let alone that they've been through bumps and bruises to justify my confidence in them. Even if I could convince of that it could be written off as circumstantial. As can opposing claims.

However you cannot make a claim anywhere, but especially online and expect everyone to just succumb and agree. Someone famous one day once said, "To avoid criticism you must say nothing, do nothing, be nothing."

It's just a disagreement. You're making it into something it's not. Let's not be a voluntary victim. I'm ready to move on. How about you? I call that being an adult.


----------



## rafy1 (Oct 11, 2016)

Too me the "Hardlex" is pure 'Marketing' stuff, nothing better than Sapphire


----------



## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

JayDeep said:


> There is no burden of proof on either side here because both are no more than words. They can't prove that they scratched their mineral crystal in the way that they claim. I could only show the purchase date of my mineral crystal watches and the condition of them currently but that wouldn't prove that I've worn them at all, let alone that they've been through bumps and bruises to justify my confidence in them. Even if I could convince of that it could be written off as circumstantial. As can opposing claims.
> 
> However you cannot make a claim anywhere, but especially online and expect everyone to just succumb and agree. Someone famous one day once said, "To avoid criticism you must say nothing, do nothing, be nothing."
> 
> It's just a disagreement. You're making it into something it's not. Let's not be a voluntary victim. I'm ready to move on. How about you? I call that being an adult.


 "There is no burden of proof on either side here because both are no more than words."

All communications between people are "just words". The fact is that we are all responsible for the words we use, hence the laws of libel and slander.

"They can't prove that they scratched their mineral crystal in the way that they claim. I could only show the purchase date of my mineral crystal watches and the condition of them currently but that wouldn't prove that I've worn them at all, let alone that they've been through bumps and bruises to justify my confidence in them. Even if I could convince of that it could be written off as circumstantial. As can opposing claims."

Your claim though was that " Not calling out anyone specific but I do believe at least 80% of online claims of Hardlex or mineral scratching is absolute lies birthed from said snobbery. " That's fairly specific so would you like to justify that.

"However you cannot make a claim anywhere, but especially online and expect everyone to just succumb and agree. "

I agree totally so again, would you like to give some evidence for this claim of yours "I do believe at least 80% of online claims of Hardlex or mineral scratching is absolute lies"

" It's just a disagreement. You're making it into something it's not." It's not a disagreement, I'm just asking for your justification for calling people liars.

"I'm ready to move on. How about you? I call that being an adult." Adult?.. Really? It's the justification used a lot of times by politicians and others when they have been caught out and want to distance themselves as quickly as possible from something they have said.

You may want to take on board that this watch forum is a fairly tight community where trust is important, as we buy and sell watches from one another on a very regular basis. We certainly have disagreements and not everyone likes the same thing but If you're going to start implying that members are liars you aren't going to be doing yourself any favours if you intend remaining here....


----------

