# E U Legislation For Cars



## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

The EU are considering legislation to make electric vehicles make a noise, as they are too quiet.

Early suggestions included the Star Wars theme, adverts for the manufacturer and a jet aircraft whooshing noise.

Personally, I prefer a moo'ing noise to be honest. After all the largest market in the world currently is India and they are quite used to getting out the way when they hear mooing on the streets - I know I did.

Alternatively they could always make it an combustion engine noise. Not too radical I know, but it is something we are all used too and the good news is that Toyota Prius users won't have to do anything to comply.


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## tixntox (Jul 17, 2009)

I would like my wheelchair converted kangoo to sound like a V8! :angel_not:

Mike


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## Robert (Jul 26, 2006)

TNT have a 7.5 ton electric truck around Glasgow. It is strange (but pleasing) to see something that size just gliding past.


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## dombox40 (Oct 20, 2008)

Talking about new laws coming into force as from next month if you own a car and it,s not insured it will be a criminal offence wether you drive it or not, punishable by a heavy fine. About time they caught up with the non payers. :thumbsup:


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

Indeed - it's not new laws we need, just the existing ones enforced and/or updated where relevant.


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## Clum (Feb 14, 2009)

dombox40 said:


> Talking about new laws coming into force as from next month if you own a car and it,s not insured it will be a criminal offence wether you drive it or not, punishable by a heavy fine. About time they caught up with the non payers. :thumbsup:


Unless your car is SORNed


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## dombox40 (Oct 20, 2008)

Clum said:


> dombox40 said:
> 
> 
> > Talking about new laws coming into force as from next month if you own a car and it,s not insured it will be a criminal offence wether you drive it or not, punishable by a heavy fine. About time they caught up with the non payers. :thumbsup:
> ...


Not sure this applies any more, if it,s registered in your name it will need insurance.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

No Clum is right if it's registered sorn you don't have to insure it


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## Big Rick (Dec 28, 2010)

Saw a race around the streets of Pau at the weekend all you could hear was tyres squeeling weird. Get used to it because in a few years time there will be more about.

I was talking to a guy I worked with in F1 a few years ago, he now has his own company and has been approached to make 25 electric single seater cars similar to a F3 car it will run for 28 minutes and do similar lap times a protype has already been made


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

ESL said:


> The EU are considering legislation to make electric vehicles make a noise, as they are too quiet.
> 
> Early suggestions included the Star Wars theme, adverts for the manufacturer and a jet aircraft whooshing noise.
> 
> ...


Good... The woman opposite me has a Prius, its scared the crap out of me more than once when shes reversed out of her drive and I hadn't noticed until its come past me :lookaround:


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

The vehicles should have to make this sound:








Later,

William


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

jasonm said:


> ESL said:
> 
> 
> > The EU are considering legislation to make electric vehicles make a noise, as they are too quiet.
> ...


Yes, unfortunately unless you have driven electric vehicles in a busy urban environment you do not realise how much the humble bean, er I mean the human being :derisive: uses sound to check for traffic before stepping off the curb and THEN looking! :shocking:

More than a few occasions I have jammed on the anchors only to be greeted by a look that can only be described as a cross between suprise, fear and anger.

Electric vehicles although giving a lovely feeling or being wafted around in silence also give you a very tight sphincter occasionally  :lol:


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## Mutley (Apr 17, 2007)

ESL said:


> The EU are considering legislation to make electric vehicles make a noise, as they are too quiet.


This should do it unk:


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Poo! All current leccy cars are wank, small range, pees poor performance, look pants and are laughably expensive to buy and run, new batteries anybody? God what a blind alley they have been.

Look, I have a 1962 scooter that does 60 mph, it has range of 200 miles, it costs Â£90 to insure, it costs nothing to tax, it gives 90-100mpg and it's value is going up. Talk about back to the future! My new scooter due to arrive this week for commuting (cos all leccy cars are wank) will do* 170 mpg* and I will laugh in the face of Prius owners. Penny will drop sooner or later.


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

MarkF said:


> Poo! All current leccy cars are wank, small range, pees poor performance, look pants and are laughably expensive to buy and run, new batteries anybody? God what a blind alley they have been.
> 
> Look, I have a 1962 scooter that does 60 mph, it has range of 200 miles, it costs Â£90 to insure, it costs nothing to tax, it gives 90-100mpg and it's value is going up. Talk about back to the future! My new scooter due to arrive this week for commuting (cos all leccy cars are wank) will do* 170 mpg* and I will laugh in the face of Prius owners. Penny will drop sooner or later.












Yep, and they are perfect for the family outing too :lol:

Now wheres that apple....I'd like to compare it to an orange I have here.............


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Boxbrownie said:


> Yep, and they are perfect for the family outing too :lol:
> 
> Now wheres that apple....I'd like to compare it to an orange I have here.............


You can't fool me, you have vested interest. Great pic, I like that. Leccy cars are poo, looks at the costs, residuals, batteries and the elephant in the room, battery lifespan and replacement costs. Before you start, seen it! Drop in, drop out batteries, oh yeah, the new solar power/conservatory/double glazing business for the 2010's!

My new scooter cost me Â£2.2k, it will do 170mpg, costs Â£15 to tax and I'll lose Â£1k over 5 years if I decide to flog it. Wake me up when something comparable is around.


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

Mark....your correct on most things but they ain't poo....its just battery technology isn't up to the demends required.

Actually driving a decent BEV is a good experience, performance wise comperable to normal vehicles and in some respects far better (acceleration on a good BEV is quite outstanding) and the near silent operation always puts a smile on ones chops.

BUT (and its a big one  )

BEVs will never (probably in our lifetime) be a replacement for petrol/diesel family cars and long distance commercial deliveries, but for short commuting they make perfect sense and WORK. And by the time battery technology has caught up there will be fuel cell or alternative energy vehicles making thier debut leaving BEVs floundering.

Anyhoo in the near future (5-10 years) petrol will be king.....diesel will be in short supply (just wait until the USA and China start demanding diesel for vehicles) and the cost differential between the two will widen dramatically as petrol will be in oversupply as the crude cracking process ratio is fixed by physics. But don't tell anyone I told you or I'll get it in the ear from :big_boss: :rofl2:


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Boxbrownie said:


> Mark....your correct on most things but they ain't poo....its just battery technology isn't up to the demends required.
> 
> Actually driving a decent BEV is a good experience, performance wise comperable to normal vehicles and in some respects far better (acceleration on a good BEV is quite outstanding) and the near silent operation always puts a smile on ones chops.
> 
> ...


 They don't have to just "work", they have to be affordable too, to the average family, they are not. About as useful as wind farm energy. So, they make perfect sense for short commuting, that's their USP? Ok, I'll go for that, thing is though, I've got legs and a cycle for short commuting, zero costs.  If you are infirm, can't think for yourself or are just plain bone idle, *then* they make perfect sense for short commuting! Would like a go in one tho'.......

I don't and would not drive a diesel car so this insider info sounds good to me. :clap:

Got a plane to catch see you next week...............


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## unclejonboy (May 15, 2011)

wow some photo.....but there's eight legs this side....aand if it's a family outing which one's the wife.... either she has a beard or it's the little one on the handlebars... or are there some more on the other side...? And what you cant see is the motor I'm guessing an old iron head sportster that they used to use on the tac tacs or possibly a honda 50?


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## novatron1_2 (Jun 23, 2005)

I think over time people will get used to looking more and listening less, it's like when you go to a city with electric trams, you get used to looking for them as they're so quiet


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## unclejonboy (May 15, 2011)

MarkF said:


> Boxbrownie said:
> 
> 
> > I don't and would not drive a diesel car so this insider info sounds good to me. :clap:
> ...


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## ian1 (May 14, 2011)

Mines a 2.0 Tdi automatic, it does a bit more to the gallon than my old one, I use the premium diesel, its supposed to be better


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

unclejonboy said:


> MarkF said:
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> 
> > I don't and would not drive a diesel car so this insider info sounds good to me. :clap:
> ...


I don't like diesel, it's slippery and it stinks, I don't like diesel cars so I don't care how may zillions of miles they can do or how good the mpg is. I don't buy and would not by turbos either...........


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## LeeKaye (Jun 3, 2011)

novatron1_2 said:


> I think over time people will get used to looking more and listening less, it's like when you go to a city with electric trams, you get used to looking for them as they're so quiet


Yep, I heard in one city where they introduced the new electric trams they have had to modify them to make noise as so many people were being injured.


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

unclejonboy said:


> The scarcity of diesel is a conspiracy to encourage gasoline engine sales and and the particulate pollution issue is easily resolved... My niece has a little diesel hatchback.. I think a peugot too but it might be an Opel and she gets 70 mpg...Just no competition....unless you want a Ferrari or similar.


It was not me on the grassy knoll :hunter: :wink2:

I didn't mean to imply there would be a shortage of diesel fuel (well not for another 20 years or so) its just that as new diesel vehicle sales worldwide overtake the sale of thier petrol equivelents there will be an excess of petrol fuel, its a matter of physics and the crude oil cracking process.

China (primarily) will demand diesel fuel unlike anything you can imagine and not just for vehicles.....petrol fuel will fall in price as there will be a glut, its just market conditions no conspiracy.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

After years of trundling around in single figure mpg tanks I bought my truck which is diesel thinking it would be better and it still can get single figure mpg  if I take it easy it gets about 15 to the gallon, just as well they were smart enough to put two fuel tanks in it :lol: :lol:


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Boxbrownie said:


> China (primarily) will demand diesel fuel unlike anything you can imagine and not just for vehicles.....petrol fuel will fall in price as there will be a glut, its just market conditions no conspiracy.


So my Cherokee 4.0L petrol straight six will be the new Prius? Talk about back to the future. :thumbup:

I don't care anyhow, my 100mpg Vespa is going up in value, my other scooter does 170mpg and I have 4 cycles, I am covered whatever calamity threatens, bring it on! :scooter:


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

BondandBigM said:


> After years of trundling around in single figure mpg tanks I bought my truck which is diesel thinking it would be better and it still can get single figure mpg  if I take it easy it gets about 15 to the gallon, just as well they were smart enough to put two fuel tanks in it :lol: :lol:


Probably because the first owner was smart enough to ORDER the second tank rather than the manufacturers sticking a second in for free! :thumbup:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Boxbrownie said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> > After years of trundling around in single figure mpg tanks I bought my truck which is diesel thinking it would be better and it still can get single figure mpg  if I take it easy it gets about 15 to the gallon, just as well they were smart enough to put two fuel tanks in it :lol: :lol:
> ...


Probably as you can't go that far on one tank :lol:

I did think about trying the veggie oil as these power strokes will run on just about anything but since people have latched onto it it's just about the same price and all the takaways near me are Indians with chip shops dying out up this way.


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## gaz64 (May 5, 2009)

MarkF said:


> Boxbrownie said:
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> 
> > China (primarily) will demand diesel fuel unlike anything you can imagine and not just for vehicles.....petrol fuel will fall in price as there will be a glut, its just market conditions no conspiracy.
> ...


Mark is it one of these??

August 2, 2007 Italian manufacturer Piaggio, the maker of Vespa, is set to become the first company to release a hybrid drive scooter following an announcement that it is developing hybrid versions of its Vespa LX, Piaggio X8 and Vespa MP3 (the carving three-wheeler) models. The new hybrid system, which has a working title of HyS (Hybrid Scooter), can operate in full electric mode with a range of around 20 kilometres as well as hybrid mode - whenever the rider needs to accelerate more aggressively, the electric motor kicks in, providing about 85 per cent extra performance. Piaggioâ€™s HyS system is a parallel hybrid in which a combustion engine and an electric motor incorporated into the gearbox casing are mechanically and electronically linked and simultaneously supply power to the rear wheel. The system uses drive-by-wire and the in-built electronic management combines the two engines to offer not only better acceleration but also a significant reduction in fuel consumption (up to 170 mpg or 1.67 liters/100 km) and in CO2 emissions, only 40 g/km (using 65% the hybrid modes and 35% the electric one).

taken from

http://www.gizmag.com/go/7730/


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## handlehall (Aug 7, 2009)

BondandBigM said:


> Boxbrownie said:
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Get a TATA - they're designed to run on ghee


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

gaz64 said:


> MarkF said:
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> > Boxbrownie said:
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No Gaz, it's one of these an LML 125cc 4 stroke, using old Piaggio tooling for the steel (not plastic) body. There is now a 200 that makes motorway journey's viable. I don't see a viable leccy vehicle (besides) cycles on the market, to me, they are laughable. If a Honda 125cc 4T did 100mpg in the 1970's then it's not such a leap for a 125cc engine to be doing 170mpg now, is it? My Vespa GL does about 90-110mpg from a 1962 150cc 2T engine!!

It's all a scam, my scooters are made of steel, they are infinitely and cheaply repairable, parts are peanuts to buy and they do incredible mpg. Fuel is not "wasted" either because you are never queuing. They are simple.


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## gaz64 (May 5, 2009)

MarkF said:


> gaz64 said:
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> > MarkF said:
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Looks like Tesco are doing them for a shade under Â£2300


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

gaz64 said:


> Looks like Tesco are doing them for a shade under Â£2300


I paid Â£2k on the road. I think Piaggio but pressure on dealers not to stock LML alongside "Vespa" bit naughty as they didn't have an alternative since they stopped making the PX range. Now they have brought the PX back, (Due to LML's popularity) people will always prefer the real deal, an Italian Vespa over an Indian one. Tesco won't help LML's street credibility but I hope it helps it's sales, it's simple, reliable, incredibly cheap transport that makes modern alternatives look very silly indeed. Question is, why can't Piaggio provide a similar engine?


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

MarkF said:


> It's all a scam, my scooters are made of steel, they are infinitely and cheaply repairable, parts are peanuts to buy and they do incredible mpg. Fuel is not "wasted" either because you are never queuing. They are simple.


One minor problem you fail to mention that puts most people off them as a means of transport no matter how cheap they are, for nine or ten months of the year in the UK it's either p!ssing down or freezing cold


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## handlehall (Aug 7, 2009)

BondandBigM said:


> MarkF said:
> 
> 
> > It's all a scam, my scooters are made of steel, they are infinitely and cheaply repairable, parts are peanuts to buy and they do incredible mpg. Fuel is not "wasted" either because you are never queuing. They are simple.
> ...


You forgot to mention that unless you are Italian or a proper mod (in the 60s) you'll look a right [email protected] riding one :secret:


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

BondandBigM said:


> MarkF said:
> 
> 
> > It's all a scam, my scooters are made of steel, they are infinitely and cheaply repairable, parts are peanuts to buy and they do incredible mpg. Fuel is not "wasted" either because you are never queuing. They are simple.
> ...


Poo B! I use it year round and I have not died of "wet" yet. You keep pretty dry when riding compared to a motorcyle, that's what it was designed for, being able to use normal clothes. Annually, there are probably less than 20/30 days where I bottle out of riding or cycling, nine or ten months? What are you on? We have a mild climate. 

Still, same old, same old, all over the net people whine about fuel prices but they always finds an excuse not to deal with them, why? Because they are bone idle and conditioned to cars and normailty and would rather whine and pay than dare do anything so wild as ride a bike or scooter.


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## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

handlehall said:


> BondandBigM said:
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> > MarkF said:
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Not to mention the lack of cup holders.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

ESL said:


> Not to mention the lack of cup holders.


Doh! :thumbup:


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Putt putts - I'm like the Commander - smelly dangerous fings :lol: (but you knew that Mark, didn'y you?) I mean, you hit them and the folks fall off the bl**dy things 'cos they don't have seatbelts and heaters and stereo 6 speaker sound, Blutoof for your phone, and a socket for an MP3 player msl:

(Oh! - and there's nowhere to put The Daily Mail either! :lol: )


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