# Beats Per Hour Table



## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Partly as a result of acquiring a new watch timing machine recently, I decided to go through my electric watch collection and measure the Beats Per Hour of those examples with a conventional balance wheel  .

If we accept that the higher the value, the better the watch*, then the results are quite surprising. *A high BPH is meant to lead to better time keeping but others also say it leads to more rapid wear on the pivots.

So in low-to-high order:

Hamilton 500.......................................18,000

Hamilton 505.......................................18,000

LIP R27...............................................18,000

LIP R148.............................................18,000

UMF 25................................................18,000

ESA 9150.............................................21,600

Stellaris, Westclox (Seiko).....................21,600

Citizen X8............................................21,600

Caravelle 12OUCD................................21,600

Seiko EL-307........................................21,600

Junghans 600.12...................................21,600

Seiko Elnix...........................................28,800

UMF 26.................................................28,000?

PUW 1001.............................................28,200?

PUW 2509.............................................28,800

ESA 9154..............................................28,800

*Citizen 7802A........................................36,000*

Citizen 7803A........................................36,000

Great to see the much under-rated Citizen right at the top of the BPH ladder :thumbsup:


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

The response to this was deafening :lol:

Maybe I need to go and join the very exclusive 36000 BPH Watch Collectors Site & Forum....yes, it really does exist! :thumbsup:

Come on then you lot...anyone else got a 36000 BPH/VPH watch? If so, what is it? :huh:


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

I havent got one....

I wouldnt mind though....

I kinda like slow beat watches, the Services I had was ultra slow....

Its a interesting table thoigh Paul, have you put a tuning fork on the timer yet ? :huh:


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## Toshi (Aug 31, 2007)

Silver Hawk said:


> The response to this was deafening :lol:


 :lol:

I don't have one Paul, I'm afraid, but I was trying to buy one recently (without much success  )


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

jasonm said:


> I havent got one....
> 
> I wouldnt mind though....
> 
> I kinda like slow beat watches, the Services I had was ultra slow....


As far as I can tell it runs at about 60BPM, 3600BPH!! :swoon:

Maybe this is why comparitively so many of them seem to survive after approx 80 years


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## Zessa (Apr 9, 2008)

Silver Hawk said:


> The response to this was deafening :lol:
> 
> Maybe I need to go and join the very exclusive 36000 BPH Watch Collectors Site & Forum....yes, it really does exist! :thumbsup:
> 
> Come on then you lot...anyone else got a 36000 BPH/VPH watch? If so, what is it? :huh:


Hey Paul,

Great to see you're having fun with the Mumford. I've also found that I couldn't resist the urge to put all my watches through the timer. Only got half way there but finally managed to set the timer for the Marine Chronometer - and the results where staggering.....

+0.4 Seconds per month !! :jawdrop:

That's only + 4.8 seconds per year! No wonder I thought I was setting the machine up incorrectly!! I'm beginning to understand why people make such a fuss about the MC.

Regards

Mike

Oh, forgot to ask...what would that make the BPH for an MC


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## psychlist (Feb 28, 2005)

I've just sold this Zenith El-Primero which I believe is 36000BPH - do I get a prize?


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## Agent orange (Feb 11, 2006)

The Girard Perregaux Hi-Beat or Hi Frequency has 36,000 bph and that was introduced in 1966.

Alternatively the Megasonic at 2,592,000 bph! Even the esa 9162/4 beats at a positively pedestrian 1,080,000 bph and both are "antiquated" late 60's technology. Just goes to show that new doesn't always mean better.

Cheers,

Gary


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## PhilM (Nov 5, 2004)

The Valjoux 7736 in the Aviation runs at 18000 bph, I think that has to be my lowest out of all of them  It's nice listening to the thing tick so slowly, has a calming effect


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing...


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## PhilM (Nov 5, 2004)

pg tips said:


> It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing...


Is this what you tell Mrs Tips :tongue2:


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Yep I have one and its for sale  Seiko 6159 Diver... a Grand Seiko base movt etc


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## Stanford (Feb 10, 2007)

Zessa said:


> Silver Hawk said:
> 
> 
> > The response to this was deafening :lol:
> ...


Mike, the MC crystal resonates at 2,359,296 times a second (2.4MHz), which would be quite a few per minute and shed loads per hour :blink:


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## Sparky (Nov 2, 2005)

JonW said:


> Yep I have one and its for sale  Seiko 6159 Diver... a Grand Seiko base movt etc


Well where is the sales ad then?! I can't see it!! 

Mark


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## Agent orange (Feb 11, 2006)

Silver Hawk said:


> Thanks for your comments.
> 
> I posted a technical topic and, while I can quite understand that many people might have no interest in the workings of a watch, I didn't expect a response like yours.
> 
> I thought some others might find it interesting but, *frankly, I'm wondering whether to post any technically-biased topics ever again on The Watch Forum if this is the type of response I'm going to get*...and instead, I'll leave you to your in-depth discussions on Lego Watches.


Noooooooooo! Don't be put off by one persons flippant remark Paul. I for one really appreciate your insight and contributions to the forum, whether technical or not. Please carry on educating us dunderheads (I know it's hard work), you never know one day even Nesima might learn a thing or two  .

Cheers,

Gary


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Sparky said:


> JonW said:
> 
> 
> > Yep I have one and its for sale  Seiko 6159 Diver... a Grand Seiko base movt etc
> ...


Its there, search one me Mark... Its the one with the huge list of watches for sale.. BR02. GP 35x, Seiko and Doxa.... If you cant find it, PM me 

Not quite sure what else is going on in the thread... I'll stay out of it... h34r:


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## Stanford (Feb 10, 2007)

Silver Hawk said:


> Partly as a result of acquiring a new watch timing machine recently, I decided to go through my electric watch collection and measure the Beats Per Hour of those examples with a conventional balance wheel  .
> 
> If we accept that the higher the value, the better the watch*, then the results are quite surprising. *A high BPH is meant to lead to better time keeping but others also say it leads to more rapid wear on the pivots.


I am curious about whether faster is actually "better". I don't own any, as far as I know, at either extreme (other than the OMC 2.4) so I haven't an axe to grind (but then I am generally ignorant about the movements in my watches).

I have noticed, though, that IWC's new 'Vintage' range includes a number of models which all use an IWC 98300 movement (don't know what the base movement is) with has a BPH of 18,000. Does that mean it's not as good as it's faster family members?

I believe the use of an older, slower, movement is to retain some of the character/integrity of the orignal watch models.

I, for one, appreciate there is more to watches than just appearance, and the occasional intellectual exchange helps develop my knowledge and understanding of what is these days my main hobby


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## Stanford (Feb 10, 2007)

Stanford said:


> Silver Hawk said:
> 
> 
> > Partly as a result of acquiring a new watch timing machine recently, I decided to go through my electric watch collection and measure the Beats Per Hour of those examples with a conventional balance wheel  .
> ...


I've just realised that my last post could have been misinterpreted - apologies if it was









I was simply trying to say that I enjoy the fact that the occasional thread deals with a topic that make me think  and in this case has made me look up information on all my watch movements. I now know that I do have several watches that are 18,000 BPH.


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## Nalu (Nov 28, 2003)

This is my one 36K bph watch, although if Jon (or you Paul) tells me which 7159 has the hi-beat movement, there might be another 










I also appreciate the effort put into this post. As one who has a life and a sense of humour but also spends a lot of time sussing out obscure watch facts, I value Paul's knowledge base tremendously. I usually learn something every time he posts, which is more than can be said for some members of this forum.


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> > I havent got one....
> ...


I`ve just re-read this and realised I got it wrong, what I meant to say was it runs at about 120BPM/7200BPH h34r:

When I originally posted this I`d just double checked by counting over 30 seconds whereas previously I`d done it over the full 60 seconds 

Mind you, it`s still a ruddy slow ticker :thumbsup:


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Agreed Jason, some of Nesima's past contributions have been little better .... he isn't the forum Paul.


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## Stuart Davies (Jan 13, 2008)

Paul I very much apreciate your technical posts as I come here with absoultly no prior knowledge of why, what or how before so keep 'em coming.

So here is my stupid question: If I don't have a machine for measuring bpm then is there any other way to to find this out?

BTW my Kelton from 1922 runs at about the same speed as my heart beat. I love the way it really does go "tick tock".


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Ok I some how missed this upset earlier ( I was at work grabbing a few illicit minutes between paper work h34r: ) anyway I also appreciate Paul`s contributions to this forum especially as I`m somewhat of a dunce when it comes to the technical stuff :blink:


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