# Take A Peep'



## mollydog (May 13, 2011)

Just in case any ones missed these, quite a high binâ€™ or as it seems to me, he might take a bid of half the asking price who knows, looks to me as if heâ€™s fishing for a big one! donâ€™t have a clue how much the junghans or the other seikos are worth, but the 7a38s donâ€™t look over bad! For a quick peep follow this; 350468022631


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

mollydog said:


> .... but the 7a38s donâ€™t look over bad! For a quick peep follow this; 350468022631


Well spotted that man. :thumbsup: But I can only see one 7A38 :blind: - a rather tired looking 7A38-7190 on a wrong bracelet.



















The dial on that one looks a mess - possibly suffered from moisture ingress. Look at the bubbles around the subdials. :thumbsdown:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Here's one in far better condition, on the correct Seiko p/n B1412C bracelet, which I sold last October (for Â£87):


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## mollydog (May 13, 2011)

Yep' Hes right again, did'nt know the bracelet was incorrect. still trying to get a grip of these 38s although i have one winging its way, will post when it arrives ' if i dare! '


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

mollydog said:


> Still trying to get a grip of these 38s ....


Buying a duff Seiko 7Axx or two on the Bay, is all part of the learning process.

I've certainly bought more than my fair share over the last couple of years. :duh:

Most of the more recent ones were 'fuzzy photo gambles' which didn't quite pay off. 

But when a seller gives you a hi-res photo of a bad dial like that, you'd only have yourself to blame. :blind:



mollydog said:


> although i have one winging its way, will post when it arrives ' if i dare! '


Post away, with impunity .... and I'll try to be gentle.







:grin:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Here's one in far better condition, on the correct Seiko p/n B1412C bracelet, which I sold last October (for Â£87)


I should say that although it's a good close-up photo of a 7A38-7190, it's not the best.









Apart from the dust, the (natural) light I took it in doesn't show the (grey) dial colour properly. :blush:

That eBay seller's close-up photo of his dodgy dial is a far better representation of the true colour.

I was looking through my folders to see if I'd taken any photos of the watch I'd replaced it with.

It appears I still haven't (as is the case with a good number of the 7A38's in my collection), so ....

Here are the 4 eBay seller's listing photos of the second Two-Tone 7A38-7190 I bought in June 2010:





































Apart from light desk diver marks on the clasp, and removal tool marks on the case-back, it's almost mint.

Checking back through my eBay purchase records, looks like I got it for the opening bid price of $99 US.


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## watchking1 (Nov 14, 2007)

Bleh. Seller knows if they are working or not. Most of his sales are watches..... :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2011)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Post away, with impunity .... and I'll try to be gentle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I bought one I wouldn't put a piccy on here 'cause I'd be scared of what you'd say


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## mollydog (May 13, 2011)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> mollydog said:
> 
> 
> > Still trying to get a grip of these 38s ....
> ...


The description of purchasing a 7a38 is exactly the route ive taken.

My 7a38- 702A arrived this morning and all functions are working correctly, Hurrayâ€™

Im sure the case and bracelet are all original thanks to the in depth expertise from SEIKO7A38fan

The only down side is the overall condition of the watch, Im hopeing to make a big improvement on the case etc, but will lose the gold plate from the the bezel in the process, not sure if thatâ€™s a good or bad thing for me, it could at a later date be re plated.

Will post photos later today

At work and proudly donning my latest acquisition.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

avidfan said:


> If I bought one I wouldn't put a piccy on here 'cause I'd be scared of what you'd say





SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Buying a duff Seiko 7Axx or two on the Bay, is all part of the learning process.
> 
> I've certainly bought more than my fair share over the last couple of years. :duh:


If anybody is any doubt about that, check my posts from 2 years ago, when I was still a 7A38 'Newbie'. 

There is always the temptation to jump at the first example of a particular 7A38 model you see. :man_in_love:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

mollydog said:


> My 7A38- 702A arrived this morning and all functions are working correctly ....


Well presuming you bought it on eBay .....

it isn't item # 130529228480, which still has a day to run, after some ridiculous bidding on the first day, so ....

I'm guessing that it was either item # 120725051641 or item # 350467016319, or one that I've completely missed. :blind:

PS - And it sure as hell can't be 'this one', auction still running, and flagged in the '7A38 Franken thread'



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Well it sure as hell isn't a 7A38-702A


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> .... a rather tired looking 7A38-7190 on a wrong bracelet.


Getting back to the two-tone 7A38-7190, the most recent one sold on eBay that I could find was item # 250814349704.

See: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250814349704&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_645wt_934



> *SEIKO Chronograph Stahlgold 7A38 80er RARE*












..... which sold for a very reasonable 65 Euros in mid-May. Pretty obviously in need of a new crystal, but otherwise

on the correct original p/n B1412C bracelet, couple of light scratches, and with minimal plating wear on the bezel. :thumbsup:


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## mollydog (May 13, 2011)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> > .... a rather tired looking 7A38-7190 on a wrong bracelet.
> ...


Well here we are as promised my 7a38 as it arrived,

Complete with dirt and scratches. I gave Â£71.00 for this one.

Iâ€™ve tried all the functions and all works fine, with plenty of extra links to the bracelet thatâ€™s two plus pointsâ€™ ill have to pop the bezel as the chapter ring is incorrect with the sixty second marker at ten. The case needs plenty of work and the hardlex glass has lots of scratches. The bracelet seems to be quite good, all the gold plated inserts have no plate wear, so will only require a light buff as I want the watch to have a patina related to its age. Will probably give the bezel a mod look by removing the gold plate that is left and highly polishing it.

Iâ€™m looking forward to giving this one a new lease of life.

Will re-post when the works done!

Seiko7a38fan should be along shortly to tell it as it is, â€˜ ive got my fingers crossed â€˜


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

mollydog said:


> I'll have to pop the bezel as the chapter ring is incorrect with the sixty second marker at ten.


Robert.

You don't actually need to remove the bezel to do this. :hammer:

With most of these 'conventional' style 7A38 cases, the Tachymeter dial ring spacer is sandwiched between the bezel and the case.

But they are quite a loose fit, and free to rotate, being located in the correct position by various pips on the underside of the dial ring,

which engage some of the cut-outs around the periphery of the dial plate:










All you need to do, is to pop out the dial / movement, then you can rotate the Tachy ring from the underside.



mollydog said:


> The case needs plenty of work ....


Yes, looking at the eBay seller's photos of the side on views of the case, you will have your work cut out. :butcher:



mollydog said:


> .... and the hardlex glass has lots of scratches.


Easily solved. Far and away the best and simplest solution is to replace the crystal.

The original Seiko part number 310W62GN00 is obsolete and no longer available, unfortunately.

However, there are a few replacement crystals available (from Cousins UK). They stock:

Sternkreuz p/n XMF310.925 (Cousins p/n S15653), which is supposed to be the same,

Sternkreuz p/n MSM310, which is what I always use and would recommend, and

Cousins own p/n F150CMH310 which is by far the cheapest solution.



mollydog said:


> The bracelet seems to be quite good, all the gold plated inserts have no plate wear, so will only require a light buff ....


Not 'buffing', if you intend to restore it to the correct original finish, but re-brushing.

You can do this using a fibreglass pen (which is time consuming), or with Wet & Dry paper.

However, I would recommend carefully masking the gold-plated bars first, before doing so.

I've used 9 or 10mm wide Polymide protection tape on the couple I've done in the past.

Very fiddly to cut and insert between the links, but well worth the time and effort.











mollydog said:


> Will probably give the bezel a mod look by removing the gold plate that is left and highly polishing it.


The 12-sided 'Thruppenny Bit' bezel on the the Seiko 7A38-702x's is one of its most attractive features.

However, by its very design, particularly the gold plated version of the bezel is prone to rubbing wear and knocks.

Stripping the remaining worn plating, leaving the gold 'dummy rivets' is quite a common 'bodge', used by many Filipino watch botchers.

I've seen it done on half a dozen and more 7A38-702x's listed on eBay by Filipino watch botchers.

Indeed, the very first one I saw like this was a 7A38-702x Franken by 'SpeedTimerKollection', which I fell for. :blush:

If done properly, it can look quite attractive. However, care needs to be exercised.

I'm planning to re-create the 'SpeedTimerKollection' 7A38-702x Franken, myself at some point. :butcher:

To which end, I've already re-furbished a 7A38-702H watch-case and bezel.

The plating on the top surface of the bezel was almost completely worn away ....

However, it was still quite thick on the side facets, which also had quite a few knicks.

So it took quite a lot of work to remove the gold plating, while still trying to keep the edges sharp.

I was quite pleased with my efforts, until I fitted the bezel to the watch-case:










Please excuse the dust on the corner. It's where I had it wrapped up in tissue,

and forgot to give it a quick puff with the blower, before taking the photo. :blush:

Notice the slight 'edge' all around the bezel, that I'm now left with, as a result of taking too much material off the sides.









Your watch's bezel has quite a few dings, both in both the sides, and the top surface.

The one I started off with was in far better condition than yours, so you may need to remove more.

Might I suggest an alternative solution ? :huh:

Think about filling the dings in your watch's bezel with something like silver solder ....

.... and getting it re-plated (needs to be 18ct gold). It would be more original than stripping.

If you still want to take your bezel off, you should find a 'fingernail' sized niche on the bezel at 11 o'clock.

First mask that corner of the watch-case, to avoid any more scratches. I actually use a small piece of Duck Tape.

Carefully insert a blade (I use a Citizen-type case-back tool) into the niche and twist to pry off.

Good Luck.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Easily solved. Far and away the best and simplest solution is to replace the crystal.
> 
> The original Seiko part number 310W62GN00 is obsolete and no longer available, unfortunately.
> 
> ...


Bit of an unhappy post-script to that one. :angry:

The original Seiko crystal p/n 310W62GN00 is 31.0mm diameter by 1.57mm thick.

I know, because I've just popped one out of a 7A38-7020 case I'm working on.

Sternkreuz's p/n XMF310.925 equivalent is slightly thicker at 1.64mm thick.

In my past experience using the Cousins p/n F150CMH310, I've found they vary between 1.50 and 1.55mm thick.

But the Sternkreuz p/n MSM310's which I've bought from Cousins in the past have always been 1.49mm to 1.50mm thick.

Until today. 

I was running out of stock of Sternkreuz MSM310's, so I ordered another 5 last month.

I came to use the first of that batch this afternoon in that 7A38-7020, and as usual ....

just popped it in the vernier calipers to check the thickess, to find that it was only 1.37mm thick. :thumbsdown:

As was the whole batch of 5 !! I shall be on the phone to Cousins on Monday, needless to say.


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## mollydog (May 13, 2011)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Easily solved. Far and away the best and simplest solution is to replace the crystal.
> ...


Hi paul Thanks for all the info and help.

Sorry I havenâ€™t been around all day. Much too busy in the garden and many other jobs ive been meaning to doo

Your re furbished case looks superb more like a sample!

I agree regarding the 702a, itâ€™s a superb and original looking watch.

I got a little giddy and sorted it all on saturday night, while you where having a good time.

Decided to go with a machined finish to the edge of the bezel by using a modelling file. The top edge was done with 600 wet and dry. ( used dry )

Once I got the sides back to shape, i gave them a rub with 1200 and finished off with a mini drill and buffing head with T Cut ( still needs another go, some hairline scratches )

I think the course finish takes some of the dress look away and mixes a bit of tool lookâ€™

Havenâ€™t bothered with the small marks, but all the nasty ones have gone, with another in depth go I should be able to get it a little closer to what I was aiming for!

To me the overall appearance is quite good and as usual it looks much better in the skin than the photos. Yeh yeh yehâ€™

Will be logging on to cousins to find a replacement glass, I might try to find a plastic one as the sides of these are much clearer, this in my view makes the chapter ring look much better!

Havenâ€™t done anything with the back yetâ€™ big deep scratch i wont be able to loose.

While fitting the new crystal ill probably have another play with the case, but for now im just enjoying the watch.

It looked a little tooooo rough to be seen wearing before.

Oh by the way I hope you noticed the chapter ring back in its rightful place at 12â€™

Ive just left good feedback for the seller, I only wanted a fully functioning 7a38 â€˜ his good photography told the storyâ€™â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦who knows from here!

I hope my handy work is not too distressing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Should be around tomorrow so ill keep you posted.


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## mollydog (May 13, 2011)

Of course i meant friday night, lost track again - just another saga moment.


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## mollydog (May 13, 2011)

mollydog said:


> Of course i meant friday night, lost track again - just another saga moment.


A brighter daylight picture showing before and after.


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## mollydog (May 13, 2011)

mollydog said:


> mollydog said:
> 
> 
> > Of course i meant friday night, lost track again - just another saga moment.
> ...


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Your watch's bezel has quite a few dings, both and in both the sides ....


Nice bit of case re-finishing, Robert ! :thumbsup:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

By the way, Robert ....

Looking at your photos again (and the original eBay seller's), I'm not sure what's going on with your crystal. :huh:

It appears to be sat well proud of the bezel. 

If it's the normal correct thickness (approx 1.50 - 1.55mm), it should be sat almost flush with the bezel.

I haven't taken any side-on view photos of any of my 7A38-702x's ....

But here's a couple from the eBay listing where I bought my first 7A38-702A, back in May 2009:



















Notice the difference ? :shocking:



mollydog said:


> Will be logging on to Cousins to find a replacement glass, I might try to find a plastic one
> 
> *as the sides of these are much clearer*, this in my view makes the chapter ring look much better!


I think I understand the highlighted part of your earlier post now, Robert. :groan:

You shouldn't actually be able to see the (frosted) sides of the crystal ! :blind:


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## mollydog (May 13, 2011)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> By the way, Robert ....
> 
> Looking at your photos again (and the original eBay seller's), I'm not sure what's going on with your crystal. :huh:
> 
> ...


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## mollydog (May 13, 2011)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> By the way, Robert ....
> 
> Looking at your photos again (and the original eBay seller's), I'm not sure what's going on with your crystal. :huh:
> 
> ...


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

mollydog said:


> Oh dear, thanks for clearing that one up Paul, i thought it didnt look right.
> 
> Is the hardlex just a flat piece of glass or does it have a grove for the seating of the o' ring.
> 
> if its only a flat one ill make my own now youve given me the thickness.


Yes, more or less (perfectly) flat, round, 31.0mm Ã˜ exactly and depending whose you buy, 1.50 - 1.55mm thick.

The Sternkreuz MSM's have straight sides, whereas the Cousins crystal has a slight chamfer on the bottom ....

very much the same as the original Seiko crystal had, which aids fitting with a new gasket.

However, as I prefer to re-use the old nylon crystal gasket (as long as they're in good condition) ....

That's why I prefer the Sternkreuz. They're harder to press home, and much tougher glass. :hammer:

Check the prices of Sternkreuz MSM310 and Cousins F150CMH310 crystals before you think about making your own.









PS - If your watch is missing the Seiko crystal gasket - you can get p/n 86565100 from Cousins UK.

But don't even think about trying to fit a Sternkreuz MSM310 with it. The tolerances are VERY tight ! :sweatdrop:

Edit to last: Looking at your photos, there appears to be a crystal gasket fitted.

So how thick is that crystal you've got ? Or is it just not pressed home properly ? :huh:


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## mollydog (May 13, 2011)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> mollydog said:
> 
> 
> > Oh dear, thanks for clearing that one up Paul, i thought it didnt look right.
> ...


Ive checked the crystal and its pushed right home, its probably been made from the base of an old milk bottle.

I think the gasket is the origional and made from nylon

Just spent the last hour or so looking for a pack of old glass crystals ive had years, lots of sizes!


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## mollydog (May 13, 2011)

mollydog said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> > mollydog said:
> ...


Not to be im afraid, none at 1.5 thick


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## mollydog (May 13, 2011)

mollydog said:


> mollydog said:
> 
> 
> > SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> ...


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## gamarp (Jun 10, 2011)

mollydog said:


> mollydog said:
> 
> 
> > mollydog said:
> ...


Hi Mollydog,

Can I ask which Sternkreuz crystal did you use? XMF310.910 or the MSM310?

According to SEIKO7A38FAN the MSM310 crystal is thinner than 1.5mm, but the XMF is thicker then it should be hence I am confused. :dontgetit:

And did you buy a new crystal gasket or you just used the old one?

Sorry for asking these questions but it seems you already went throught the replacement process and I have almost the same watch (7A38-7020) with a scratched crystal so I`m about to change as well.

Thanks,

Arpad


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

gamarp said:


> Hi Mollydog,
> 
> Can I ask which Sternkreuz crystal did you use? XMF310.*910* or the MSM310?


Arpad.

Be careful with your part numbers.











SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> However, there are a few replacement crystals available (from Cousins UK). They stock:
> 
> Sternkreuz p/n XMF310.*925* (Cousins p/n S15653), which is supposed to be the same,
> 
> ...





gamarp said:


> According to SEIKO7A38FAN the MSM310 crystal is thinner than 1.5mm ....


Arpad.

Normally Sternkreuz p/n MSM310 crystals (of which I've bought dozens in the past) are spot on 1.50mm thickness.

It was only the most recent batch of 5 supplied by Cousins that turned out to be 'undersized' at 1.37mm thickness.

I'm assuming these were a faulty batch which got through QC. I'm still waiting for a reply / return authorisation. :angry:

PS. Robert ('mollydog') used a Sternkreuz MSM310 (his was the correct thickness) and re-used the old crystal gasket. :wink2:


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## gamarp (Jun 10, 2011)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> gamarp said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Mollydog,
> ...


Thanks Paul!

I meant XMF310.925 instead of 910...it was just a typing mistake :wallbash:

So you prefer MSM310...this is the answer what I was looking for. :notworthy:

Just in case I will buy that crystal gasket as well, just couple of pounds.

But it is still not clear to me that whether you have to remove the bezel to remove the crystal or not? I went through this topic and searched other topics which related to 7A38 but it's still foggy to me. It seems that the crystal is embedded in the bezel and the bezel is attached to the case, hence you have to remove the bezel (pry out from the case) and then you press out the crystal. This is my logic, I'm having a nice conversation with myself :umnik2:

Do you have any idea what should I do with the faulty chrono second hand? (Probably you will reply: " Take it to the watchmaker"  )


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

gamarp said:


> I meant XMF310.925 instead of 910...it was just a typing mistake :wallbash:


I just wanted to make sure you realized, Arpad. :wink2:

You'd be surprised what a difference it makes ordering a crystal with 3 digits of the part number wrong. :duh:



gamarp said:


> So you prefer MSM310...this is the answer what I was looking for. :notworthy:
> 
> Just in case I will buy that crystal gasket as well, just couple of pounds.


Yes I do now - and would always recommend them over the other alternatives available.

I trust that Cousins UK / Sternkreuz will quickly resolve the current quality / sizing issue.

Originally, when I first started replacing crystals myself, I used the cheaper Cousins range.

But I found if you exerted the slightest bit too much pressure, pushing them in, they easily shattered / cracked.

I've never yet managed to break a Sternkreuz MSM310, nor any other size Sternkreuz crystal, for that matter. :hammer:

When I discovered that most recent batch of MSM310's were 'under-thickness', I checked my whole spare crystal stock.

I still had a dozen of Cousins p/n F150CMH310 still new in their packets. Not sure that I'll ever use them, though. :schmoll:

Don't waste your time (and money) ordering a new crystal gasket to use with a Sternkreuz MSM310.

Sternkreuz crystals don't have a 'lead in' chamfer on the underside, to aid fitting, like the original Seiko and Cousins crystals.

It's hard enough to fit one of those with a new gasket. Trust me - if it's undamaged, re-use your old gasket. :wink2:



gamarp said:


> But it is still not clear to me that whether you have to remove the bezel to remove the crystal or not? I went through this topic and searched other topics which related to 7A38 but it's still foggy to me. It seems that the crystal is embedded in the bezel and the bezel is attached to the case, hence you have to remove the bezel (pry out from the case) and then you press out the crystal. This is my logic, I'm having a nice conversation with myself :umnik2:


No Arpad. :no: You don't need to remove the bezel to press out the crystal on a 7A38-7020.

The same applies to most other 'conventional' 7A38's. On 7Axx's with rotating 'divers' bezels you would need to.

You simply press the old crystal out from the inside the case. They sometimes shatter in the process. :hammer:

Be sure to choose a press die that will fit easily through the hole in the Tachymeter dial ring spacer.

I nearly always use the 24/25mm nylon die from my set.

I once made the mistake of picking the 26mm/27mm die instead - result one b*ggered Tachymeter ring. :cray:

It's a mistake you make only once.  :furious:  :wallbash:



gamarp said:


> Do you have any idea what should I do with the faulty chrono second hand? (Probably you will reply: " Take it to the watchmaker"


Try what I suggested *HERE* previously - if you think you're capable of doing it yourself.


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## mollydog (May 13, 2011)

gamarp said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> > gamarp said:
> ...


Hello Arpad,

I found it easier for me to remove the bezel, as Paul â€˜7a38fanâ€™ described earlier in this topic, theirs a niche in the bezel at 11.

You then press the glass out from the inside.

With the centre second hand not working, you could try (whilst the bezel is removed) lightly nudging the hand with a tooth pick or suchâ€™ from the left to right or slightly lifting it, this may spring the hand into motion as they sometimes get a little seated.

If youâ€™re unlucky, its probably cheaper to find a nasty 7a38 in good working order and swap the movement out. Please donâ€™t quote me on that,

do some research first!

Its just I donâ€™t know of a repair for the problem.

Good luck, Mollydog


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## gamarp (Jun 10, 2011)

Thank you Paul and Robert!

Superb info.

At the moment I`m hesitating what would be the next step: buy a crystal press from ebay and do it myself or take it to a watchmaker just to change the crystal. (of course I will buy the crystal from Cousins, otherwise the watchmaker would charge me a huge amount of money








)

To buy a decent press it cost me roughly Â£20, but I know an old guy here in Croydon, he seems to do crystal replacements for Â£7.5 if you have the crystal, and lets be honest: to change a glass it`s not a big deal for him because he did it couple of hundred times meanwhile I did never :dntknw:

But on the other hand I`m a kind of DIY guy and I`ve got a theory like this: "if you want a proper job then do it yourself" or "the only person you can trust is yourself" :naughty:

I will decide this question later


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## gamarp (Jun 10, 2011)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Try what I suggested *HERE* previously - if you think you're capable of doing it yourself.


Paul, many thanks for this answer!

I have to say it officially that you are the SEIKO GOD unk:

I`ve read through that topic and I found it very useful.

In my 7A38 the second hand`s tension spring was in its original place, it wasn`t dislocated, so I tried what you suggested: I nudged very gently just in the right direction, and then I tried to nudge left and right. When I pushed the chrono`s start button it was still struggling to rotate, so I helped a bit...still not perfect...goes couple of seconds then stops and shaking. :angry2: But then, something has popped into my mind that if you push the right bottom pusher for couple of seconds you will activate the demo mode so all the chrono`s finger will do a full rotation. So I did that....and guess what? I was the happiest man in the world because the second hand did a full rotation. :thumbup:

I repeated this process many times just to make sure it won`t be stuck anymore. And then I pushed the start button of the chrono again...and it stopped again :crybaby:

But at least I am happy, because I know there is no problem with the circuit board or the gear mechanic or the stepper motor. I suspect the oil lubrication is just gone.



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> However, looking at the first photo of your watch, your problems may run a little deeper.
> 
> On the top left hand quadrant of the dial, the paint appears to be blistered and oxidised.
> 
> ...


Yes, you`re right Paul, something has happened with the dial and the lume on the clock hands. Firstly my father didn`t really used this watch for a long time, I remember in the last 2-3 years the battery was definately dead  And he never used the chorno function ever...when I was kid I played with its chrono all the time, and later I used the watch for at least 5 years when the chrono was working...and then I have given it back to my father and the watch has been put in the cupboard for years as I said.

Probably the pusher and crown rubber gaskets became too old and they let in the moisture which then possibly condensate inside the case.

But I`m optimistic about this watch, after my father passed away I knew I have to use this watch again as I did long time ago. So I grabbed it, went to a watchmaker in Hungary (yes, I am Hungarian  ) he has put a new battery in and it started to run immediately and I knew that it will. (except the chrono`s second)

This is the Japanese quality, fantastic watch...and a sentimental value for me.

Sorry about my personal extra data...but there is no watch without its story. :victory:

Is there any safe way to lubricate it without disassembling the whole movement? I don`t really want to take the movement to any watchmaker as they have no idea about it, and they would just start to complaing that this watch is too old, don`t have spare parts...blablabla....all the rubbish.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

gamarp said:


> So I grabbed it, went to a watchmaker in Hungary (yes, I am Hungarian  )





SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> gamarp said:
> 
> 
> > I`m new to this forum.
> ...


Yes, I'd already sussed that, Arpad - initially from the Hungarian photo hosting website you used. :wink2:

Oh, Yes - and there's other this Hungarian guy with the same name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arpad :dwarf:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

gamarp said:


> Is there any safe way to lubricate it without disassembling the whole movement?


Not if you want to do it properly, Arpad. :no:

That means the dial, hands, day/date complication have got to be removed from the top, besides

taking the anti-magnetic plate; circuit board; stepper motors and plastic spacer off from the back.

There are *lots* of lubrication points on a 7A38. You may find this handy: http://www.seikodigitalwatches.com/7XXX/7A38A.pdf

Edit: If you have any problems downloading from that website, let me know your email address, and I'll send you a copy.


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## gamarp (Jun 10, 2011)

:groan:

I just realised that you used the Hungarian word *Szia*....I`m blind. B)

I bet you are a detective, Paul :good:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

gamarp said:


> I bet you are a detective, Paul :good:


Let's just say that I have an enquiring mind, Arpad. :hi:












gamarp said:


> First of all, sorry for my terrible English, I promise I`ll try to do my best.


By the way, congratulations on your excellent command of English, and the superb formatting of your posts. :thumbsup:


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## gamarp (Jun 10, 2011)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Not if you want to do it properly, Arpad. :no:


I was afraid you would say that 



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> There are *lots* of lubrication points on a 7A38. You may find this handy: http://www.seikodigitalwatches.com/7XXX/7A38A.pdf


I have read through the document :book:

It was a bit difficult to see the images but apart from that it was very-very useful...and also realised there are much more lubritaion points then sprockets 

But as I am an extremly brave guy I grabbed my watch screwdriver set what I bought from carboot sale for Â£1 (so you can imagine the quality) and started to disassemly the movement. :1eye:

It didn`t take too long to figure out that all of my screwdrivers are not compatible with SEIKO`s screw...hence I stopped the whole disassembly process. And







I have accidently bent the chrono`s second hand :shout:

Did I mention how brave I am? :flex: So...I managed to straighten it back :sweatdrop:

If you see the movement from its side you will see a small curve on the second hand, but if you see from the top of the dial (as you usually look at your watch from this view)...it`s perfect. 

*Conclusions:*


If you have only one 7A38 movement don`t do any kind of experiment on that :fool: 


if you don`t have proper tools to work with just don`t do anything :no2: 

Unfortunately the above statments are true regarding with me...so I decided to leave this lovely chronograph function as is it :yes:

Thank you for all the help, Paul! unk:


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## gamarp (Jun 10, 2011)

I tried to order the crystal from CousinsUK but when I clicked the "buy now" button I had this message:










Does it mean that I am not allowed to buy anything from Cousins???









What the hell?

Is there any trick here...should I just ignore this message and keep going? :help:

If this question is against RLT policy somebody could send me the answer to my private email: [email protected]

Many thanks in advance!


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

gamarp said:


> Does it mean that I am not allowed to buy anything from Cousins???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, it means that Cousins UK are a wholesaler, and therefore not legally allowed to deal with individuals direct.

So you have to tell a little white lie :naughty:, and check the tick box at the bottom, where it states:



> Cousins are a wholesale supplier, and by ticking this box you confirm you are not purchasing as a consumer ....


Then proceed. :wink2:

BTW - Reason I emailed you to say 'hold fire', is that I was confused by some of the part numbers you were ordering.

Only the MSM310 is for your 7A38-7020 - right ? The other parts are for different watches - maybe your 8222 ? :huh:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

gamarp said:


> And
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey Arpad.

Sorry to hear about your little accident. If it's any consolation, it happens to the best of us. :blush:

This is a rare 723O dial out of an equally rare 7A38-727B, which I dropped, while the movement was out of the case.









It bounced on the worktop, and was rolling towards the edge when I deftly caught it. :clap:










Resulting in one severly b*ggered sweep second hand. There ain't no way of straightening that one ! :cray:


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## gamarp (Jun 10, 2011)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> No, it means that Cousins UK are a wholesaler, and therefore not legally allowed to deal with individuals direct.
> 
> So you have to tell a little white lie, and check the tick box at the bottom, where it states:


All right, I can do that :good:



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> BTW - Reason I emailed you to say 'hold fire', is that I was confused by some of the part numbers you were ordering.
> 
> Only the MSM310 is for your 7A38-7020 - right ? The other parts are for different watches - maybe your 8222 ? :huh:


Yes, the MSM310 is for my 7A38-7020, the others are for my 8222-7000. Actually I have just figured out that the last item (8271.6220) is unnecessary as the Sternkreuz XAC301.646 crystal comes with chrome tension ring (According to the relevant Sternkreutz catalog...I hope) therefore I removed that.

I can`t say enough thank you Paul! :notworthy:


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## gamarp (Jun 10, 2011)

gamarp said:


> And
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here are some pics after the "accident" :




























By the way, CousinsUK was very fast, I have ordered the stuff on Wednesday and I have received it yesterday 

I`m going to visit the watchmaker today to change the crystals in both 7A38 and 8222...I`m curious about the results. B)

Have a nice day! :beer:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

gamarp said:


> By the way, CousinsUK was very fast, I have ordered the stuff on Wednesday and I have received it yesterday
> 
> I`m going to visit the watchmaker today to change the crystals in both 7A38 and 8222...I`m curious about the results.


Arpad.

As a matter of interest, how thick was the Sternkreuz MSM310 you received from Cousins ?

Do you have a digital vernier caliper you can measure it with ?


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## gamarp (Jun 10, 2011)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> As a matter of interest, how thick was the Sternkreuz MSM310 you received from Cousins ?
> 
> Do you have a digital vernier caliper you can measure it with ?


I have a traditional micrometer so there won`t be any problem to measure it. :wink2:

As soon as I`m at home from my boring workplace I will get back to you. :yes:


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## gamarp (Jun 10, 2011)

gamarp said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> > As a matter of interest, how thick was the Sternkreuz MSM310 you received from Cousins ?
> ...


Hi Paul,

I almost have the same result as you've got: 1.38mm :thumbsdown:










Is this 0.12mm difference in thickness going to be a problem?

And some good news. I don't know what happened with my 7A38's chrono function but for some reason when I pushed the start button this afternoon the second hand was working perfectly!!! :clap: :yes: 

Maybe God has shaken his mighty hand after looking my fighting with the second finger :boxing:

Miracle? Or magic?? Whatever :angel_not:

It is a real pleasure to see the watch running again perfectly after so many years! B)


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

gamarp said:


> I almost have the same result as you've got: 1.38mm :thumbsdown:
> 
> Is this 0.12mm difference in thickness going to be a problem?


In the greater scheme of things, it's probably no big deal, I suppose, Arpad. :disgust:

Your watchmaker may notice the difference when he fits it, and mention it to you.

No matter how hard he presses it in, he won't get it to sit below the level of the bezel. :hammer:

It's just bl**dy annoying as far as I'm concerned. 

For the last 2 years, I've been ordering Sternkreuz MSM310's from Cousins, they've always been spot on 1.50mm thick.

Then they sent this batch of 5 which were only 1.37mm thick (I noticed as soon as I took the first one out of its packet).

If you look at the Sternkreuz packet, it actually states on the front 1,4 - 1,5 (Mineral) - not 1.50mm (as Cousins sell them).

So as far as Sternkreuz's own stated manufacturing tolerances go - these crystals are 'out of spec'.

Funnily enough, I asked Robert, and he said the MSM310 he'd received from Cousins (and used) was 1.47mm thick.

I'm still waiting on a reply from Cousins about returning my 5 for replacement. 



gamarp said:


> And some good news. I don't know what happened with my 7A38's chrono function but for some reason when I pushed the start button this afternoon the second hand was working perfectly!!! :clap: :yes:
> 
> Maybe God has shaken his mighty hand after looking my fighting with the second finger :boxing:
> 
> ...


Well done that man ! :clap: :cheers:


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## gamarp (Jun 10, 2011)

I`m back again 

I was extremly busy and missed so many topics, and now there are lots of threads I need to read :book:

First of all, to close my story about my 7A38 here are some pictures after the glass replacement:




























And the chrono still works well :clap:

Secondly, a massive *thank you* has to go to Paul, whose guidence was incredibly valuable.

Thirdly, I think this forum has a bad influence on me :grin: .... I spend way to much time in front of computer reading these threads and then watching ebay auctions about Seikos :jump:

Especially the topics about the Seiko 7A38 are the blame unk:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

gamarp said:


> First of all, to close my story about my 7A38 here are some pictures after the glass replacement ....
> 
> And the chrono still works well :clap:


Looking a lot better, Arpad - Well done ! :good:



gamarp said:


> Thirdly, I think this forum has a bad influence on me :grin: .... I spend way to much time in front of computer reading these threads and then watching ebay auctions about Seikos :jump:
> 
> Especially the topics about the Seiko 7A38 are the blame unk:


Have you read Page *4* of '*A few of my own 7A38 Frankens*' yet ? :read: I've been busy modding a few more recently. :hammer:


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## gamarp (Jun 10, 2011)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Have you read Page *4* of '*A few of my own 7A38 Frankens*' yet ? :read: I've been busy modding a few more recently. :hammer:


I bet you shared this link with me because you want to sell a 7A38 to me for Â£250 :rofl: :jump: 

I had a look on this thread by the way. But I this is my favourite topic here: Heads Up On Yet Another 7A38 Franken

It entertained me a lot, that was brilliant.

I don`t remember in which topic but I`ve read somewhere that you created a "magic" excel spreadsheet about the model variations of 7A38.

Do you have pictures in this spreadsheet as well? I don`t really interested in the part numbers, but I`m a bit confused about the massive amount of case number variations...I can not identify/recognise which model is which one.

Do you know what I mean?  Do you have a spreadsheet with the case numbers and a pictures about the watch next to them? (Sorry I`m not able to discribe or explain better, hope you`ll understand)


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

gamarp said:


> I don`t remember in which topic but I`ve read somewhere that you created a "magic" excel spreadsheet about the model variations of 7A38.
> 
> Do you have pictures in this spreadsheet as well? I don`t really interested in the part numbers, but I`m a bit confused about the massive amount of case number variations...I can not identify/recognise which model is which one.
> 
> Do you know what I mean?  Do you have a spreadsheet with the case numbers and a pictures about the watch next to them? (Sorry I`m not able to discribe or explain better, hope you`ll understand)


Arpad.

I've mentioned my 7A38 Excel spreadsheet in a couple of threads, most recently here:

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=59398&view=findpost&p=677453 That is just a screen-print of the 7A38-727x section.

Sorry, *still* no pictures included - it only was ever intended as a reference document for myself. :wink2:

and before you quote me back to myself:



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> No, there's quite enough written detail on the sheet, IMHO, in it's current format. :tongue_ss:
> 
> What it really needs, and what I'd already planned to do with it, eventually :smartass: ....
> 
> .... is to embed a clickable thumbnail photo of every model, to the right of the comments column.


Tough ! :tongue2:


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