# Anyone Know Anything About Chinese Chrono Mov`t



## jezz59 (Nov 1, 2009)

Hello everyone, I understand that the Chinese make their version of the Valjoux 7750 Chrono movement? is this correct? further more, is this an autowind mov`t ?. What are they like on accuracy and quality and what watch brand names are they to be found in?. Any info & comments gratefully recieved, thanks. Jezz


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## tomshep (Oct 2, 2008)

They are to be found in a wide variety of fake Darklings and the like, as well as some highly respectable watches. Quality is said by some to be on a par with the real thing and, predictably, you'll hear the opposite opinion in equal measure. It is a drop in replacement for the Swiss 7750 and with ETA restricting supplies, might well be found in watches calling themselves Swiss Made.


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## jezz59 (Nov 1, 2009)

tomshep said:


> They are to be found in a wide variety of fake Darklings and the like, as well as some highly respectable watches. Quality is said by some to be on a par with the real thing and, predictably, you'll hear the opposite opinion in equal measure. It is a drop in replacement for the Swiss 7750 and with ETA restricting supplies, might well be found in watches calling themselves Swiss Made.


Thanks for that, food for thought indeed,didnt realize that the Chinese are capable of producing movements of such a quality.Im on the look out for an autowinding Chrono so your comments are of great help.Naturally I dont wont a fake but would be happy to purchase an openly cino watch on the basis that they are decent.


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## Thian (Nov 23, 2008)

I have just been educating myself on these Chinese made watches, especially the Sea-Gull models. They are really excellent for the buck...on par with Alpha watches, which use the Chinese movements!!!

I have 4 of the Seagulls...chrono ST19 mil re-issued, M177s, ST5D from the 70s auto....check the WUS site Chinese Mechanical Watches and see the excitement....!


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## Paulus (Nov 12, 2009)

Just waiting for these to start appearing in nice original designs (alpha newman not for me)

Google "ST1901 lysanderxiii" (not supposed to link direct I think) for a full strip down and analysis :thumbsup:


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## jezz59 (Nov 1, 2009)

Thian said:


> I have just been educating myself on these Chinese made watches, especially the Sea-Gull models. They are really excellent for the buck...on par with Alpha watches, which use the Chinese movements!!!
> 
> I have 4 of the Seagulls...chrono ST19 mil re-issued, M177s, ST5D from the 70s auto....check the WUS site Chinese Mechanical Watches and see the excitement....!


thanks for your comments and info,this has enabled me to enquire about Seagull & Alpha which I did not previously Know about, Im begining to acumalate a collective picture. Greatly appreciated!


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## Thian (Nov 23, 2008)

jezz, here is my first buy, the Seagull mil reissued 1963, with the ST1901 movement as mentioned above, analyzed by lysanderxiii (Ken Canaday in N. Carolina), brought out in 2008 by the Tianjen seagull factory... a real beauty, handwinding only! Original strap was a green mil nylon but I added my own...


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## Thian (Nov 23, 2008)

Paulus said:


> Just waiting for these to start appearing in nice original designs (alpha newman not for me)
> 
> Google "ST1901 lysanderxiii" (not supposed to link direct I think) for a full strip down and analysis :thumbsup:


Paulus, if you google the Sea-Gull USA website based in California and operated by Kevin Ma ( who has sole USA rights by the Tianjin Factory), you will see the original models, not Alpha hommage watches with Chinese movements. There is the Sea-Gull Canada site too, which has one or two models not shown on the USA site, for example the sporty hibeat M306S model.


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## gigfy (Jul 3, 2007)

jezz59 said:


> Hello everyone, I understand that the Chinese make their version of the Valjoux 7750 Chrono movement? is this correct? further more, is this an autowind mov`t ?. What are they like on accuracy and quality and what watch brand names are they to be found in?. Any info & comments gratefully recieved, thanks. Jezz


Google for Chinese Watch Wiki and you will find hours of good reading. If you click on Table of Contents, then Mechanical Chronograph, you should find the info you are looking for.

I own a Liaoning 21,600bph auto chrono in a Ticino watch. It is very nicely made and has performed very well. I also own a Shanghai 28,800bph auto chrono in the Prometheus CR1. Another very fine watch.

Sea-Gull makes the mechanical ST19 in a few different flavors. I own a 1963 re-issue and a Speedtimerkollektion that I intend to mod. Interesting factoid is that Sea-Gull has just introduced a new ST19 model. The automatic ST19. :thumbsup: TY2940 (aka ST1940). But I haven't seen it in any watches yet.

Cheers,

gigfy


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## Paulus (Nov 12, 2009)

Thian said:


> Paulus, if you google the Sea-Gull USA website based in California and operated by Kevin Ma ( who has sole USA rights by the Tianjin Factory), you will see the original models, not Alpha hommage watches with Chinese movements. There is the Sea-Gull Canada site too, which has one or two models not shown on the USA site, for example the sporty hibeat M306S model.


Thanks mate, I'd found the US site and whilst they're quite pretty and clean the pastiche-vintage roman numeral thing isn't doing it for me at all, going that way I'd rather they were doing retro 70s-style colourful chunks.

Your re-issue is much more like it, not seen one of those, IMO a vintage Strela marginally edges but still very cool. M306S certainly more original design but again not my thing. Very much each to their own of course and I appreciate this is all an entirely subjective business.

The quest continues! 

(good tip gigfy, will keep an eye out for x940 stuff)


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## jezz59 (Nov 1, 2009)

Thian said:


> jezz, here is my first buy, the Seagull mil reissued 1963, with the ST1901 movement as mentioned above, analyzed by lysanderxiii (Ken Canaday in N. Carolina), brought out in 2008 by the Tianjen seagull factory... a real beauty, handwinding only! Original strap was a green mil nylon but I added my own...


thanks very much for posting the pic and replying, the attraction and interest value is obvious, it is as you correctly state a real beauty, may I crave further indulgence and enquire about the mov`t being as it is hand wound, it is of swiss origin or a Chinese design? pardon my ignorance but thats because, well, Im on the learning curve about Chinese watches. Thanks again.

Jezz


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## AlbertaTime (Aug 1, 2009)

jezz59 said:


> thanks very much for posting the pic and replying, the attraction and interest value is obvious, it is as you correctly state a real beauty, may I crave further indulgence and enquire about the mov`t being as it is hand wound, it is of swiss origin or a Chinese design? pardon my ignorance but thats because, well, Im on the learning curve about Chinese watches. Thanks again.
> 
> Jezz


It's a Swiss design, but not a fake or a stolen design. The movement is based on a Venus calibre 175 movement. The tooling and plans etc were purchased by the Chinese Ministry for Light Industry which had the Tianjin/Sea-Gull factory build the movements for use in Chinese Air Force chronographs (Venus sold the tooling to raise capital for the caliber 188).


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## Thian (Nov 23, 2008)

jezz59 said:


> Thian said:
> 
> 
> > jezz, here is my first buy, the Seagull mil reissued 1963, with the ST1901 movement as mentioned above, analyzed by lysanderxiii (Ken Canaday in N. Carolina), brought out in 2008 by the Tianjen seagull factory... a real beauty, handwinding only! Original strap was a green mil nylon but I added my own...
> ...


jezz, you should google AlbertaTime's Museum site to see some pretty impressive Chinese vintage watches. Also google WUS forum chinese Mechanical Watches forum and read alot. In the reference section is a teardown of my watch ST1901 caliber by a fellow called Lysanderxiii (Ken Canaday in the USA).


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## gigfy (Jul 3, 2007)

AlbertaTime said:


> jezz59 said:
> 
> 
> > thanks very much for posting the pic and replying, the attraction and interest value is obvious, it is as you correctly state a real beauty, may I crave further indulgence and enquire about the mov`t being as it is hand wound, it is of swiss origin or a Chinese design? pardon my ignorance but thats because, well, Im on the learning curve about Chinese watches. Thanks again.
> ...


Just wanted to add that the tooling was purchased in the early 1960's.

Cheers,

gigfy


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## Xantiagib (Apr 22, 2005)

how come its taken so long for these 175 based chronos to hit mainstream after all these years?

was the tooling put away after the military didnt need those type of watches anymore?

then to be refurbished and put into use again in the 00's?


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## gigfy (Jul 3, 2007)

Xantiagib said:


> how come its taken so long for these 175 based chronos to hit mainstream after all these years?
> 
> was the tooling put away after the military didnt need those type of watches anymore?
> 
> then to be refurbished and put into use again in the 00's?


My guess is that Sea-Gull moved on with the development of other movements including the tuning fork and quartz in the early 1970's and the ST19 was put on the back shelf. Then in the late 1990's / early 2000's someone had the foresight to realize that the movement would sell very well. And it has. :thumbsup:

It is interesting to note the different countries using the ST19. Sea-Gull (China), Plazeon (Thailand), Riedenschild (Germany), Soyuz (Russia), Invicta (USA), & my newest discovery - Haurex (Italy). And that is not counting all of the Mushroom brands with their dubious watchmaking history and geographical ties. 

Cheers,

gigfy


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## Xantiagib (Apr 22, 2005)

I suppose it went with the general move to more mechanical watches in the last 10 years and it kind of made sense

(suppose the rise of hommage watches helped too...) Now with the prices and exclusivity of ETA movements

they are here to stay...


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## mrteatime (Oct 25, 2006)

jezz59 said:


> *didnt realize that the Chinese are capable of producing movements of such a quality*


why??? the direct copy of the ETA 2824-2 is every good as the movt its copying.........i think Roy would also have a few good things to say about them......

And seeing as ETA movts are becoming more expensive to buy, and will be difficult to source in the coming years, more and more independent watchmakers (and more then a few of the medium sized producers) will be turning to the chinese made movts.

Eddie Platts has also talked about putting them into some of his future projects..........

personally, i wouldnt have a problem with having a chinese movt opposed to having a swiss one......in fact, i have a chinese manafactured 6R15 seiko movt that was delivered to me this morning, which is made under license from seiko (well....thats what they said  ) and i really didnt spend a lot of money for it either.....

Most of the parts that go into swiss movt's are more then likely made in china anyway.........so it wont be long before china will be building them for some of the big swiss watchmakers (thats if they aint already)


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## jezz59 (Nov 1, 2009)

Thian said:


> jezz59 said:
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## jezz59 (Nov 1, 2009)

jezz59 said:


> Thian said:
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> > jezz59 said:
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Thanks very much for this pointer,theres an encyclopedia in there which I simply would not have known about!


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## jezz59 (Nov 1, 2009)

gigfy said:


> jezz59 said:
> 
> 
> > Hello everyone, I understand that the Chinese make their version of the Valjoux 7750 Chrono movement? is this correct? further more, is this an autowind mov`t ?. What are they like on accuracy and quality and what watch brand names are they to be found in?. Any info & comments gratefully recieved, thanks. Jezz
> ...


thanks very much for this incredibly useful info! its opened up an aspect of the world watch manufacturing scene which I simply did not know about.


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## gigfy (Jul 3, 2007)

jezz59 said:


> thanks very much for this incredibly useful info! its opened up an aspect of the world watch manufacturing scene which I simply did not know about.


No problem. Glad to help. :thumbup:

cheers,

gigfy


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## Thian (Nov 23, 2008)

Here is a ST1901 Mil chrono variant 0437, the dress dial version with a pale rose color dial..


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## jezz59 (Nov 1, 2009)

Thian said:


> Here is a ST1901 Mil chrono variant 0437, the dress dial version with a pale rose color dial..


thanks for this pic, thats an incredibly beautiful design.


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## Thian (Nov 23, 2008)

jezz59 said:


> Thian said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a ST1901 Mil chrono variant 0437, the dress dial version with a pale rose color dial..
> ...


thanks....and here is a group photo of the other variants!


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## Kai (Jan 9, 2010)

The asian 7750s are quite reliable after a good tear-down servicing and oiling.......


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## gigfy (Jul 3, 2007)

Kai said:


> The asian 7750s are quite reliable after a good tear-down servicing and oiling.......


My Ticino (Liaoning 21,600bph) and Prometheus (Shanghai 28,800bph) have performed very well right out of the box. *fingers crossed* 

cheers,

gigfy


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## ollyhock (Feb 9, 2009)

i think there wubberwy


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