# Unexpected Addition To My Collection



## JWL940 (Jun 11, 2010)

Last week in the West Country wasn't the best time or place to holiday. I don't like too much heat but equally horizontal rain isn't high on my list of needs.

The sign said 'Parish Hall Craft and Antiques Fair,' at least it would be dry, so in we went. As expected there was your usual selection of cotton doilies, carrot cakes and cracked cups and saucers for sale when in the corner of one stall I found this hiding.



















It certainly wasn't being given away but it was a good bit less than the current offerings on the bay so who would resist? At least it'll keep my other GSTP watches company.










There are signs of it having been used rather than stuck in a drawer and forgotten about. The bow has wear at the top and all the chrome at the bottom of its case has worn away; if only it could tell its story. The movement has a serial number 467/2 so I'm guessing that makes it 1942 but I'd really like confirmation from somebody who knows more; the case back is engraved with the Pheon, G.S.T.P and serial number M 43877. Reading up on the net there were a number of makers of Government issue pocket watches, has my collecting just received a nudge in a new direction? If there are any collectors of GSTP Pocket Watches here please shout out. I'd particularly like to know how many were issued (and sold to trade after the war) and who made how many. Thanks for reading.


----------



## seemore (Oct 25, 2007)

Excellent result they don,t come much better enjoy.


----------



## MilesB (Aug 19, 2011)

It certainly wasn't being given away but it was a good bit less than the current offerings on the bay so who would resist? At least it'll keep my other GSTP watches company.


----------



## JWL940 (Jun 11, 2010)

Miles

Nothing at all wrong with the question. Depending upon who you read it is either General Purpose Time Piece or General Purpose Trade Pattern. I haven't any photos to hand but Google Images will show plenty of examples and again Google throws up a lot of information on their history but nothing I can take as definitive (yet). There are heaps of these pocket watches about and some for not much cash. Given they were made for WW2 they will be the 'youngest antique' PW you can find.


----------



## Geronimo (Sep 29, 2011)

> General Purpose Time Piece or General Purpose Trade Pattern.


not quite right IÂ´m afraid, Genral Service Trade Pattern or General Service Time Piece...

HereÂ´s What Knirim Wrote in his British Military Timepieces book



> "Watches G.S.T.P. Or G.S./T.P.
> 
> Any collector of British issue watches will have several 19'" jewelled lever pocket instruments with their plated snap-on case-back engraved G.S.T.P. or G.S./T.P. Not uncommonly (and in a different style) some have also been later engraved with the name of one of the High Street jewellers. 'Bravingtons London', 4. I believe that practice to date from 1946-48, when the of Ministry of Supply sold off various surplus watches and clocks to a value exceeding Â£ 2.000.000. Opinions differ as to the meaning of 'T.P.' RÃ¶hner prefers 'Temporary Pattern'. My own preference is for Mr. W. P. Roseman's 'Trade Pattern'.
> 
> ...


and hereÂ´s what the *horological* said:



> "Most experts believe the GS/TP stands for 'General Service/Trade Pattern' though you do find a reference here and there suggesting it could stand for 'General Service/Temporary Pattern' The Trade Pattern refers to the grade of the movement being a basic commercial design of the day rather than a design made for specific military standards and requirements. As you have found out, it is a British military watch. In addition to the GS/TP marking, it has the broad arrow marking. That is what the three line 'crow foot' symbol represents - an arrowhead. The broad arrow has been used on all sorts of British military equipment for a very long time.
> 
> GS/TP watches were made in very large quantities during the war (1939 - 1945) and on any given day you can find many for sale at modest prices on Ebay and in dealer's stocks.
> 
> ...


Best Regards


----------



## JWL940 (Jun 11, 2010)

Doh :wallbash:



> not quite right IÂ´m afraid, General Service Trade Pattern or General Service Time Piece...


Thanks Geronimo - quite how I transposed Purpose into Service I don't know.

Thanks for the 2 references, the BHI article throws another suggestion into the melting pot that I hadn't seen before, General Service Temporary Pattern. In some dusty corner of the MoD there is the definitive answer, I wonder if it'll ever be found?

I hadn't realised that GSTPs were specifically Army (according to the BHI) and RN / RAF PWs had different markings, any idea what these were.

Thanks again for the correction.

John

Edited to add: Just seen the thread on Air Ministry PWs - nice markings.


----------



## AlanJohn (Mar 17, 2011)

Nice little collection.


----------

