# Camera for an idiot.



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

No, I'm not asking for a friend. I'd like to get something easy to operate without the need to refer to the owners manual every time I use it. Apart from my phone, the last camera I used was a Minolta Dynax 7000i SLR. I'd like to get something small enough to fit in my pocket, for a new project I'm undertaking.

Any advice appreciated. :thumbsup:


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

Use your phone, or upgrade your phone to one with an excellent camera

In your pocket all the time, charged up and pretty good anyway

My DSLR is 13 years old and due replacing soon enough, but I haven't seen the point yet. A DSLR with video and WiFi would make sense, but do I need that when my phone does that?


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## sabailand (May 28, 2010)

scottswatches said:


> Use your phone, or upgrade your phone to one with an excellent camera
> 
> In your pocket all the time, charged up and pretty good anyway
> 
> My DSLR is 13 years old and due replacing soon enough, but I haven't seen the point yet. A DSLR with video and WiFi would make sense, but do I need that when my phone does that?


 You're right although Wrench would probably been half expecting an answer like that, most take really good clear sharp pictures, i haven't take a camera on holiday now for ages as i've no need to, I know its not helping the OP much but i cant stress enough how good i think camera phones really are.


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## Biker (Mar 9, 2013)

The camera will always have the upper hand as the lens is far superior to anything stuck on the back of a phone.

I use a Nikon coolpix because it is immersion proof up to 30' but I don't know if it is still made.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Biker said:


> The camera will always have the upper hand as the lens is far superior to anything stuck on the back of a phone.
> 
> I use a Nikon coolpix because it is immersion proof up to 30' but I don't know if it is still made.


 Just had a look, still available.

I find phones good for pictures, but a pain in the ergonomic department as I always find myself one step away from dropping it in use. I'll have a look first to see if there's any kind of holder that makes it more user friendly.


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## al_kaholik (May 22, 2018)

How big are your pockets?

I bought one of these for capturing moments when my son was born. Good quality pictures, satisfies my need to play (had a mirrorless interchangable before), and is easy enough to hand to anyone and get good pictures. Wanted the large aperture and having digital zoom that produces quality images is also important once the optical runs out.

Pocketable in a coat, yes, in trousers, no.


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## Ugg10 (Nov 26, 2020)

Depending on budget the Sony RX100 is pretty hard to beat as an all rounder. 1" sensor helps with low light conditions as well. There are lots of setting but just put it on auto or SCN and off you go. The guys that use these tend to follow trends and upgrade so maybe able to pick up a fairly new version 5 or 6 (7 is the latest) for reasonable cash. Places like MPB or London Camera Exchange of Ffords may also have trade ins for sale in their second hand sections.

This shows the different models noting the lens changes mostly - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Cyber-shot_DSC-RX100_series


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

Many years ago, in the days before mobile phones had decent cameras, I had a Canon Ixus and the quality on that was really good. Not sure if they even make them these days, but I'd imagine any compact camera from the big hitters like Canon, Sony, Nikon etc would be really good.


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## wrenny1969 (Jun 24, 2008)

are there any second hand camera shops near you? most of the cameras I've bought have only taken a few pictures and had very few cycles through the battery.


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

scottswatches said:


> Use your phone, or upgrade your phone to one with an excellent camera
> 
> In your pocket all the time, charged up and pretty good anyway
> 
> My DSLR is 13 years old and due replacing soon enough, but I haven't seen the point yet. A DSLR with video and WiFi would make sense, but do I need that when my phone does that?


 Damn this thread - my Nikon has started playing up! Now I find myself looking at the range of cameras, without understanding any of the terminology really, and thinking it is time to upgrade to wifi while picking a camera that is more point and shoot.

Apparently the Nikon should be good for 50,000 shutter activations, and mine has done 75,000 so it has done well


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## johnbaz (Jan 30, 2005)

al_kaholik said:


> How big are your pockets?
> 
> I bought one of these for capturing moments when my son was born. Good quality pictures, satisfies my need to play (had a mirrorless interchangable before), and is easy enough to hand to anyone and get good pictures. Wanted the large aperture and having digital zoom that produces quality images is also important once the optical runs out.
> 
> Pocketable in a coat, yes, in trousers, no.


 I bought a second hand Panasonic DMC TZ60 early in 2020 from fleabay and have to say it takes some great pics!, It has 30x zoom with image stabilisation for the higher mag shots :thumbsup:

I paid £70 and am amazed at how good the camera is for a complete novice! (I'm terrible with cameras!)










It also has a live view finder for those bright sunny days when you can't see anything on the digital screen!










Some pix i've taken with it..

Cap'n Jack?










This chimey is on full zoom, It says in the manual that it has an intelligent zoom of 60x although i'm pretty sure I cropped the image to get rid of the unwanted parts in the pic (Can't imagine much though as the date stamp is still in the correct place!










The chimney is the one to the left of the tree in this pic with no zoom, I have better comparison pics on my pc somewhere but it seems i've not uploaded them!!










A bit closer..










Specs are HERE It's quite old now and probably no where near as capable as the one Al linked to but is fairly cheap!

John :thumbsup:


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## al_kaholik (May 22, 2018)

I looked quite hard at the TZ100 when I got this. And previously I'd looked at the TZ60 like you have as a backup for the mirrorless on holiday.

Its difficult to get reviews of cameras that aren't peeking at individual pixels and just reviewing the average user requirements.

Determining what you need and want are the big issues. I'm used to fast lenses and wanted to preserve that going forward for less than ideal light and fast moving subjects. That was the most important thing. But even so, most of the time we will just pull out a phone. Processing has come on loads in digital so they are very capable.

I forget who said 'the best camera in the moment is the one you have in your hand', but it is true


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Dear @WRENCH, you are a man after my own heart. Not long ago I tasked myself with finding a small-sized digital camera capable of producing quality images that didn't break the bank financially. This task has sent me on a fascinating journey back in time to the first digital compact cameras and I have been building a collection of these devices showing their development over the years. There are on the market some fine compact digital cameras that have interchangeable lenses and can produce superb photographs, but they tend to be very expensive. However, if you are prepared to go back in time a little way and buy second-hand, there are very good compact digital cameras to be had cheaply that have useful features including decent optical zoom capability. Obvious makes to look for include Fuji, Panasonic Lumix, Olympus, and Canon. These cameras have suffered at the hands of the smartphone camera brigade but are still worth looking at.

Having said all of the above, I have to admit that the photographs taken by Kristina on her Apple iPhone 7+ are extraordinarily good and further advances in smartphone cameras have been forthcoming since that model came out. What I would say is that the best phone cameras are likely to be on relatively expensive phones, so in my book, there is still a place for stand-alone pre-owned digital compact cameras with non-interchangeable lenses, and what is more, you can still get batteries and chargers for many of these older models.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Thanks for all the helpful replies folks. I have a Fuji something or other on the way, that looks very simple and easy to use. Someone has very kindly gifted it, so I'll look forward to trying it out. :thumbsup:


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

I too have taken the leap. I contacted Cotswold Cameras with my brief of what I need, budget, poor skill level and asked their advice. Very honestly they said an iPhone 13 Pro, which they don't sell, or a Sony RX100VII like @Ugg10 also recommended. I am not a fan of iPhones, and want it to work for a number of years without updates making the phone obsolete, so the Sony is on the way.

I would have saved a few quid with the VI, but I use an external microphone for YouTube so needed that which is only on the VII. As I have earned about £800 from YouTube over the years this pays for the camera. (3.8m views so far over 6.5 years pays £800, in case anyone is thinking of being a professional YouTuber. But it is a free £800 to me.)


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

Well my Sony camera arrived and I am very unimpressed. The thing is tiny, so difficult to hold. To access the charging port and external microphone socket there is the flimsiest slivers of plastic, and they will last ten minutes. They are also too close together, so you can't for example leave both plugged in. Not that the external microphone works in this camera, and I am checking with Sony to see why not. The upload via Wifi doesn't work either - it is connected to the network, but just doesn't work. The manual is no more that a QR code, and is badly written at best and incorrect at worst.

On the bright side the flip out screen is actually useful, and close up photos are good.


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## johnbaz (Jan 30, 2005)

scottswatches said:


> Well my Sony camera arrived and I am very unimpressed. The thing is tiny, so difficult to hold. To access the charging port and external microphone socket there is the flimsiest slivers of plastic, and they will last ten minutes. They are also too close together, so you can't for example leave both plugged in. Not that the external microphone works in this camera, and I am checking with Sony to see why not. The upload via Wifi doesn't work either - it is connected to the network, but just doesn't work. The manual is no more that a QR code, and is badly written at best and incorrect at worst.
> 
> On the bright side the flip out screen is actually useful, and close up photos are good.


 Sorry to hear of your bad luck Scott, Since I praised my Lumix, It's started messing about so maybe I should have kept me trap shut!! :yes:

You should be able to return the camera if there are problems with it, I presume it was a new item?

John..


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## bowie (Mar 12, 2005)

i have a panasonic tz70 and a sony rx100 mk2 both good


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## VSAdmin (10 mo ago)

I own a few Panasonic Lumix cameras. They have served me well both personally and professionally (I was a pro wedding photographer for most of my adult life). Pocket size and great for street photography.

-Philip


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

johnbaz said:


> Sorry to hear of your bad luck Scott, Since I praised my Lumix, It's started messing about so maybe I should have kept me trap shut!! :yes:
> 
> You should be able to return the camera if there are problems with it, I presume it was a new item?
> 
> John..


 I can return it, but for a 30% admin fee if it has been used (ie tested!).

The pop out screen is actually making my life easier, and I have a Sony microphone coming after a reply from Sony saying they don't guarantee it will work with any old microphone (mine was a market leading Rode). If it doesn't work with their microphone then it is faulty and I will get a refund


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

I am also sad to hear that your Sony camera has evidently not lived up to its market position as a premium compact camera, Scott @scottswatches - disappointing. This model has been called "diminutive" in size and with rather "small buttons", which can hinder ease of handling when in use; hopefully you will be able to get used to that over time. With regard to the manual, I find it very annoying that so many tech products do not come with a proper printed book of instructions. With regard to Lumix cameras, Kristina has professionally used a couple of Lumix models over the years - a bridge camera and a compact camera - both of which have given very good service. For general photography, she is using her Apple iphone. As a final note, I do find that 30% so-called "administration fee" for a refund somewhat galling and I wonder if that is standard practice in the camera business.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I use a Micro Four-Thirds Olympus system and have an array of lenses I have acquired over the years, very good cameras and not bulky at all. Something like an Olympus E-M10 which you can pick up used for about £150 to £200 and a 14mm to 42mm "pancake" zoom lens (equivalent to a 28mm to 84mm zoom on a 35mm film camera) which you can pick up for about £100 used.

The auto mode on the camera is very good and there are simple options to tweak the shot before taking it. A couple of hours study & practice before using should be enough to start shooting for real. There are also plenty of online articles on optimising camera set up.


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## VSAdmin (10 mo ago)

JoT said:


> I use a Micro Four-Thirds Olympus system and have an array of lenses I have acquired over the years, very good cameras and not bulky at all. Something like an Olympus E-M10 which you can pick up used for about £150 to £200 and a 14mm to 42mm "pancake" zoom lens (equivalent to a 28mm to 84mm zoom on a 35mm film camera) which you can pick up for about £100 used.
> 
> The auto mode on the camera is very good and there are simple options to tweak the shot before taking it. A couple of hours study & practice before using should be enough to start shooting for real. There are also plenty of online articles on optimising camera set up.


 I stumbled on the Olympus after I got my first Panasonic (I have mild regrets I did not try it out first). I really want a one of those now, especially since the m4/3 lenses are interchangeable and I have a bunch of Panasonic lenses. The Olympus PEN is such a nice little camera.

-Philip


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## RTM Boy (Jun 1, 2011)

JoT said:


> I use a Micro Four-Thirds Olympus system and have an array of lenses I have acquired over the years, very good cameras and not bulky at all. Something like an Olympus E-M10 which you can pick up used for about £150 to £200 and a 14mm to 42mm "pancake" zoom lens (equivalent to a 28mm to 84mm zoom on a 35mm film camera) which you can pick up for about £100 used.
> 
> The auto mode on the camera is very good and there are simple options to tweak the shot before taking it. A couple of hours study & practice before using should be enough to start shooting for real. There are also plenty of online articles on optimising camera set up.


 Very good idea.

Another simple-to-use possible Micro Four Thirds option is a Panasonic Lumix GX880 with a Panasonic 20mm pancake lens (40mm FF equivalent), which not only can fit into a medium-sized pocket, but produces very good shots. The GX880 is discontinued (there are still new ones in some shops including a 12-32 kit lens for around £320 brand new) but can be had very cheaply secondhand. All interchangeable with Olympus gear (MFT) and you can add lenses as you wish.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

VSAdmin said:


> I stumbled on the Olympus after I got my first Panasonic (I have mild regrets I did not try it out first). I really want a one of those now, especially since the m4/3 lenses are interchangeable and I have a bunch of Panasonic lenses. The Olympus PEN is such a nice little camera.
> 
> -Philip


 Olympus Pen a good idea, even more compact than the OM-D cameras


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## VSAdmin (10 mo ago)

JoT said:


> Olympus Pen a good idea, even more compact than the OM-D cameras


 Often available for a song on facebook marketplace.

-Philip



RTM Boy said:


> Very good idea.
> 
> Another simple-to-use possible Micro Four Thirds option is a Panasonic Lumix GX880 with a Panasonic 20mm pancake lens (40mm FF equivalent), which not only can fit into a medium-sized pocket, but produces very good shots. The GX880 is discontinued (there are still new ones in some shops including a 12-32 kit lens for around £320 brand new) but can be had very cheaply secondhand. All interchangeable with Olympus gear (MFT) and you can add lenses as you wish.


 I might have a problem. The white one belongs to my wife. There is a red GF2 as well that is not in the photo and two more lenses. I would really like to find a good macro and a very wide lens for this collection.









-Philip


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## RTM Boy (Jun 1, 2011)

VSAdmin said:


> Often available for a song on facebook marketplace.
> 
> -Philip
> 
> ...


 The Panny 30mm F2.8 macro HS030E is a good macro for a 60mm FF equivalent, or the more expensive Olympus 60mm f2.8 macro for 120mm FF equivalent.

The Panasonic 8mm f3.5 fisheye might be fun (16mm FF equivalent), but I've never tried it.


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## VSAdmin (10 mo ago)

RTM Boy said:


> The Panny 30mm F2.8 macro HS030E is a good macro for a 60mm FF equivalent, or the more expensive Olympus 60mm f2.8 macro for 120mm FF equivalent.
> 
> The Panasonic 8mm f3.5 fisheye might be fun (16mm FF equivalent), but I've never tried it.


 A few of the local camera shops here will rent items if you want to try before you buy. The fisheye is not practical for me with this system. I use it mostly as supplemental when I still shoot weddings. A 14mm on my Canon is about as wide as I need for a reception hall overview shot typically. The macro I need to dig into more, my wife is an illustrator and sign maker. She insists she needs one for work, though most of the stuff she works on is often taller than a meter or two at least. I have been looking at the UFO lens from 7artisans. It would make this a true pocket camera since the lens is basically a body cap with elements in it.

-Philip


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## al_kaholik (May 22, 2018)

JoT said:


> I use a Micro Four-Thirds Olympus system and have an array of lenses I have acquired over the years, very good cameras and not bulky at all. Something like an Olympus E-M10 which you can pick up used for about £150 to £200 and a 14mm to 42mm "pancake" zoom lens (equivalent to a 28mm to 84mm zoom on a 35mm film camera) which you can pick up for about £100 used.
> 
> The auto mode on the camera is very good and there are simple options to tweak the shot before taking it. A couple of hours study & practice before using should be enough to start shooting for real. There are also plenty of online articles on optimising camera set up.


 MY E-M10 took a pounding and needs a new shutter button, but the cost of having that done is likely similar to a second hand body. And the EZ14-42 is the only lens I regret selling, despite having the 12-40 and previously the EZ12-50. I'm still amazed at the quality one can attain from the kit 40-150 too.

I moved to a compact for more candid shooting and more family friendly shots. Though I miss the feel of the Olympus, the extra bulk on top of everything that now goes with rules it out


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