# What do you think of these two?



## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

Seen these on ebay and was just wondering what you guys think, the Oris has been refurbished and the Avia is original I believe.

http://[IMG alt="24pdoo8.jpg"]http://i64.tinypic.com/24pdoo8.jpg[/IMG]

http://[IMG alt="raucrs.png"]http://i66.tinypic.com/raucrs.png[/IMG]


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

I am generally a fan of Oris but I feel a bit unsure about the example you show. I'm not sure why but something about the dial and the hands disturbs me and I wonder what the exact nature of the refurbishment was that was undertaken on the watch. As for the Avia, it is a real beauty. Avia has always been a rather undervalued brand by collectors, and this example shows the firm at its best.


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## gimli (Mar 24, 2016)

The Oris is most likely one of those indian fakes.

Avia is nice but unsure about the sub seconds hand...


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

Thanks guys, is there any way of telling if its fake? Im winning it at the minute for £16 so not a biggie so far, the Avia is a bit higher priced but how much roughly should I expect to pay?


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

Steve D70 said:


> is there any way of telling if its fake? *Im winning it at the minute for £16*


 This ^ is your biggest clue :laughing2dw:

To my untrained eye, the Oris is a fake, and the Avia is genuine (and lovely). I should stress though, my eye is definitely untrained :biggrin:


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

@Davey P Thank :laughing2dw: s , Ive Just messaged the guy to see what he says.

Here's a couple more pictures.

http://[IMG alt="21khvyq.jpg"]http://i64.tinypic.com/21khvyq.jpg[/IMG]

http://[IMG alt="23wpsg4.jpg"]http://i64.tinypic.com/23wpsg4.jpg[/IMG]


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

Hi

The ORIS is a mish mash 

Also this AVIA model, IIRC, was not produced with dagger hands, also as mentioned ^^^^, the sub dial hand is incorrect.

Here is my own unadulterated example...










But ?

If it has a Peseux movement...










Worth a cheeky "Little" bid for an attractive ticker, IMO.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

The oris doesn't look right at all and the hands on the Avia look too heavy when compared to the rest of the dial, just doesn't look right to me.


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

Thanks guys, so Im best to steer clear of both then, @Karrusel Ive seen quite a few Avia with that type of hand on, is it just that particular model (what model is it?) that shouldn't have those hands as I particularly like that one?


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

if you like it or them don't worry just buy them.

i mean its not like we are talking vintage red sub money or ed white speedy :biggrin: just get them :thumbsup:


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

@Nigelp Thanks I wont bid on the Oris anymore but I do like the Avia so I'll keep my eye on that.


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

Steve D70 said:


> Thanks guys, so Im best to steer clear of both then, @Karrusel Ive seen quite a few Avia with that type of hand on, is it just that particular model (what model is it?) that shouldn't have those hands as I particularly like that one?


 My example above shows the correct 'stick hands', the one you have been viewing has incorrect dagger (or dauphine) hands.

Here's another one of mine with the correct 'alpha' hands (lance are very similar)...


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

Ah right, thanks again, I could've been mistaken I guess, what is the model called or has it just got a number?


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

Ive been out bid on both now so wont bother with them now but I definitely want one of the Avia's , is there a model name or number I can search for?


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## stdape (Mar 9, 2018)

I am no expert but the Oris is too fake looking. Avia looks nice, i usually do an image search on google and compare them to others


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

On reflection and after taking another look at the Avia watch, I agree with you both, Alan, and Nigel. The hands on the Avia don't quite look correct - with the dagger hands being overly heavy-looking and the hand on the seconds register being too short. It is surprising how without a correct "comparison" example to go by, one can miss a visible problem. And may I say Alan how lovely your own Avia IIRC is, the hands just perfect the watch design.

As for the Oris, I did rumble that one as being not as it should be, and this instructive thread shows just how careful one needs to be when buying watches, especially when substantial sums of money are involved.


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

> On reflection and after taking another look at the Avia watch, I agree with you both, Alan, and Nigel. The hands on the Avia don't quite look correct - with the dagger hands being overly heavy-looking and the hand on the seconds register being too short. It is surprising how without a correct "comparison" example to go by, one can miss a visible problem. And may I say Alan how lovely your own Avia IIRC is, the hands just perfect the watch design.
> 
> As for the Oris, I did rumble that one as being not as it should be, and this instructive thread shows just how careful one needs to be when buying watches, especially when substantial sums of money are involved.


 Being a complete noob I really appreciate the help guy's, I can clearly see the difference now thanks to your help and after doing a bit more research.

I'm bidding on a "proper" one that's working/not working, the guy says it may just need a service so as long as it doesn't get too expensive I'll keep bidding.

Is there a model name or number I can search for?


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## eezy (Apr 13, 2018)

I studied those vintage watches from Indian sellers for some time before concluding that nearly all are 'bitsas'. The bright, gaudy colourings on the dial are a giveaway. They seem to start with acase, an old, worn ST96 movement and a repainted dial. Another giveaway is the plastic spacer rings inside the case.

There are loads of different brands including Seiko and Citizen, all from the same sources.


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## holg (Aug 12, 2018)

The Oris looks awfully strange, i saw an Avia watch recently and can guarantee you that there is a huge difference compared to this one.


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

Don't worry @holg someone else is keeping the bidding going up on both so I'm safely out of there.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Both watches are rubbish, keep clear!

When buying vintage on EBay scour the internet forums an blogs and do your research before bidding, there's a lot of rubbish, fakes and a plethora of watches put together from bits.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

JoT said:


> watches put together from bits.


 Unless it has RLT on the dial. :yes:

Roy kindly made me a watch (or two) from parts, one has a modern case, a 2824 movement and a refinished 1950's Gruen dial.

However, Roy is a watchmaker, not an Indian chop shop artist. :wink:


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

Thanks again guy's, would you mind if I post pics of some Im thinking of buying going forward, I'll keep them all in this thread because there's going to be a few


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

What do you guy's think about this ebayer and his Watches such as this?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-RETRO-BEAUTIFUL-NOS-CLASSIC-RUSSIA-MENS-MECHANICAL-WATCH-POBEDA-BOXED/332650709643?hash=item4d7387028b:g:fWkAAOSwhEla9~hu

http://[IMG alt="2ymywjc.png"]http://i64.tinypic.com/2ymywjc.png[/IMG]

Also this guy?

http://[IMG alt="2rw9993.jpg"]http://i64.tinypic.com/2rw9993.jpg[/IMG]


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

Anyone?


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

The Avia went for £200 :OyVey:


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Steve D70 said:


> The Avia went for £200 :OyVey:


 Interesting, especially as one that looks more correct went for half that. If you want to find another one, l think you'll have to search "Avia watch" and scroll through. Adding "17 jewels incabloc" might narrow it down, but that might also miss one.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-AVIA-17-jewels-Incabloc-Wristwatch-working-perfectly-/163387769582?hash=item260aab82ee%3Ag%3A4hAAAOSwVEFb9YlS&nma=true&si=FQN2%2BN87g5dXvpkO6pthhU8mLMI%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

@spinynorman Strange how it doesn't bring every single one up isnt it, any thoughts on the two ebayers I posted, they both have great feedback but wondering if you guys could take a look through their items to see if they look decent Watches, please.


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Steve D70 said:


> @spinynorman Strange how it doesn't bring every single one up isnt it, any thoughts on the two ebayers I posted, they both have great feedback but wondering if you guys could take a look through their items to see if they look decent Watches, please.


 I'm new here and learning too. Only one of the links you posted worked for me, the guy in Bulgaria. That's a shop selling a whole mass of collectibles and I don't think you can expect anyone here to give you a blanket opinion on the watches. You need to find something you like and then do your own research before you buy it. For example, is anyone else selling one the same, how much have they sold for in the past, has it come up in conversations here or on other forums, what does Google throw up? Then, if you have specific concerns you can't resolve, ask here and people will usually try to help.


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

spinynorman said:


> I'm new here and learning too. Only one of the links you posted worked for me, the guy in Bulgaria. That's a shop selling a whole mass of collectibles and I don't think you can expect anyone here to give you a blanket opinion on the watches. You need to find something you like and then do your own research before you buy it. For example, is anyone else selling one the same, how much have they sold for in the past, has it come up in conversations here or on other forums, what does Google throw up? Then, if you have specific concerns you can't resolve, ask here and people will usually try to help.


 Thanks for the reply bud, glad I'm not the only noob on here :drinks: , I think the second guy "Uk-Borzy" was just a picture not a link, I understand what you're saying but as you see from the start of this thread these experienced guys on here spotted the two dodgy ones I posted immediately.

Obviously I don't expect anyone to look through all their items but I thought dodgy stuff would stand out to them with a quick look to give me a rough idea if his items look ok


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

JoT said:


> Both watches are rubbish, keep clear!
> 
> When buying vintage on EBay scour the internet forums an blogs and do your research before bidding, there's a lot of rubbish, fakes and a plethora of watches put together from bits.


Likewise a lot of scummy sellers who lie about their products, even posting inaccurate descriptions or photos.



Steve D70 said:


> Thanks again guy's, would you mind if I post pics of some Im thinking of buying going forward, I'll keep them all in this thread because there's going to be a few


I would vote no. We're not your on-call eBay buying consultant to give you advice about each and every watch you want to buy. If you want to wade into the dangerous ground of eBay vintage watch auctions, you need to decide what you want, then spend time learning about the brands and the models from other members. Believe me, it will be less work, and less expensive.

Oh, and you'll likely have more fun seeing other collectors' watches and hearing their stories. There's more than a decade of old posts to be searched here, as well.


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

Why the reaction @CliffBow?


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