# Silvana Swiss 17 jewels incabloc (winding)...looking to date it...any advice...., gratefully received



## Bob Bobalot (Jun 27, 2020)

Hi Guys

i wonder if anyone might know a little more about the watch I just acquired. I have tried online research, but there is little so far I can find to date the piece ( my primary interest tbh).

A silver watch...with a pretty simple silver pearlescent face , no numbers. Only writing on the face, logo, Silvana, Swiss (above) and under centre 17 jewel Incanloc.
Casing carries 2Numbers : 212752 and 10812

not so much interested in value as its date tbh.

i assumed it would be late 50s/ early 60's but on line images I have seen some similar dating earlier, which confuses tbh

Again, I thought the Fact mine has a logo, appearing might help date it..as later? (I'm thinking logo would place it later)

Any thoughts?

would place a pic here... but as new to forum, I didn't understand the insert from URL

the ... watch strap (which I love) , chunky, expandable links seems original, expandable stainless steel, with the words "HC 55, Steel Knox printed, Swiss made "
I have to say, I am really pleased with it.

not a large purchase, of course, but pleasant.

all advice appreciated as a newbie here!

kind regards. 
Bob


----------



## andyclient (Aug 1, 2009)

Bob Bobalot said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> i wonder if anyone might know a little more about the watch I just acquired. I have tried online research, but there is little so far I can find to date the piece ( my primary interest tbh).
> 
> ...


 As it's silver it's hallmark will give you a reasonably accurate idea of its age and a picture will help regarding any further information


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Bob Bobalot said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> i wonder if anyone might know a little more about the watch I just acquired. I have tried online research, but there is little so far I can find to date the piece ( my primary interest tbh).
> 
> ...


 You have to post your pictures on a hosting site like Flickr or Imgur, then paste the links into a post here.

By silver, I assume you mean silver-coloured, probably chromium plated, not real silver.

We might be able to estimate the date from the style of the dial and the logo, but it would also help to see the movement, which means taking the back off. If there are any markings inside the caseback, they could also be helpful.


----------



## Bob Bobalot (Jun 27, 2020)

Thanks Guys.

thanks for coming back. Much appreciated.

yes, Sorry Just silver Coloured/ chrome notHong more

right...I'll get on the Flickr stuff tomorrow...and post an image...after the morning coffee has done its magic

ill post the movement image too.

cheers


----------



## Bob Bobalot (Jun 27, 2020)

Hi Guys, managed to take the back off... and heres the movement



http://imgur.com/lLCX2DT


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Embedded for the movement experts, but looks to me like ETA 2391 or derivative, which Ranfft finds in a Silvana c1960.

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?11&ranfft&0&2uswk&ETA_2391


----------



## Balaton1109 (Jul 5, 2015)

FWIW, the contours of the base plate would tend me more to the 2409: http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&1&2uswk&ETA_2409

Regards.


----------



## Balaton1109 (Jul 5, 2015)

spinynorman said:


> Embedded for the movement experts, but looks to me like ETA 2391 or derivative, which Ranfft finds in a Silvana c1960.
> 
> http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?11&ranfft&0&2uswk&ETA_2391


 On re-revisiting my post, made with fingers engaged before brain, I now realise how charmless it reads.

You were, of course, entirely correct to posit a "family"relationship between the 2391 and 2409 and I apologise for my failure to acknowledge that.

Regards.


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Balaton1109 said:


> On re-revisiting my post, made with fingers engaged before brain, I now realise how charmless it reads.
> 
> You were, of course, entirely correct to posit a "family"relationship between the 2391 and 2409 and I apologise for my failure to acknowledge that.
> 
> Regards.


 Nothing to apologise for, I was inviting a second opinion.


----------



## Bob Bobalot (Jun 27, 2020)

Guys, so impressed with the knowledge here, thanks so much. I will now read slowly all the information provided. Looking forward to learning as much as I can here...
I am really enjoying this watch I have to say, keeping great time, it's fast become my preferred Sunday wear. 

thanks again, Bob

In danger here of again, showing my ignorance.

but of the 2 movement suggested, it appears the 2409, has date wheel?
my watch, simpler, has no date function... so 2391 feels a more likely fit....something you guys would not have known, as I didn't post the face pic, sorry.

Bob


----------



## Bob Bobalot (Jun 27, 2020)

...and here it is from the front 



http://imgur.com/ICBzqGA


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

If you right click on the image and click "View Image", then copy and paste the URL, the picture will embed here.

With an ETA movement there will often be a logo and number stamped under the balance wheel (the one that swings back and forth). You can often read that through a magnifying glass or even a sharp close-up photo. That would put identification beyond doubt. There are other non-date movements in the family, eg 2405. Also I can see "DH" stamped faintly on the base plate of yours, which Ranfft lists in the signature of two of the examples. I don't know what that means, maybe @Balaton1109 knows.

It's good to see the face - it is a very smart watch and I can see why you like it.


----------



## Balaton1109 (Jul 5, 2015)

It's certainly not unknown for makers to stamp their movements with a letter pairing but in the absence of knowing their exact significance, I've always lazily assumed that they had meaning only to the maker.

Purely speculation, but perhaps they denote a production run of that calibre or the date thereof. They probably don't relate to a particular end-user, as all of my vintage Newmark calibres are stamped with (mostly) different pairs, even those where Croydon's Newmark themselves were the end-users. Of course, a triple-letter stamping is usually a US Import Code.

A little mystery to me, I'm afraid.

Regards.


----------



## Bob Bobalot (Jun 27, 2020)

Thanks Guys, with busy life, Sunday's are my chance to catch up on my messages. I have really enjoyed reading your thoughts here, thanks for taking the time. It's funny that every piece of knowledge, leads me to the discovery of how much I have still to learn. 
i'm a Karate Sensie in my other life, and the biggest thing I learned when getting to a black belt....was that this was on,y the end of chapter 1  . in watch collection...I ma clearly a white belt.

that said , delighted this week with a couple of really interesting pieces that have arrived a sporty red leather strapped 1950's Geneva Prima Sport , With red accents on the hands and the most ornate of Vostok s ...which if there is interest I will post later. The Vostok detailing on the dial, Seems so unusually intricate (So different from the usual ships, tanks, subs and missiles I see on Komammder / Amphibia etc) With its new black leather stitched strap... this is now challenging the Silvana above for Sunday wear
thanks again

Bob


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Bob Bobalot said:


> Thanks Guys, with busy life, Sunday's are my chance to catch up on my messages. I have really enjoyed reading your thoughts here, thanks for taking the time. It's funny that every piece of knowledge, leads me to the discovery of how much I have still to learn.
> i'm a Karate Sensie in my other life, and the biggest thing I learned when getting to a black belt....was that this was on,y the end of chapter 1  . in watch collection...I ma clearly a white belt.
> 
> that said , delighted this week with a couple of really interesting pieces that have arrived a sporty red leather strapped 1950's Geneva Prima Sport , With red accents on the hands and the most ornate of Vostok s ...which if there is interest I will post later. The Vostok detailing on the dial, Seems so unusually intricate (So different from the usual ships, tanks, subs and missiles I see on Komammder / Amphibia etc) With its new black leather stitched strap... this is now challenging the Silvana above for Sunday wear
> ...


 Lots of fans of Russian watches here.

https://thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?/forum/9-russian-chinese-watches/


----------

