# Forsining automatic with no manual wind?



## Codger (Sep 13, 2018)

A question that, I think, can only be answered by experienced people...!

I am not a watch guru, but was recently taken with a range of cheap Chinese watches which have the movement mounted in a thin bar running across the face - the rest of the watch being empty and see-through, with both face and rear glass. See here for example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/FORSINING

I have a couple of these (two slightly different types!) at a cheap price as a dress watch, and am curious about one of them, as it appears to have no manual wind facility.

Both are automatic - but while one has the traditional crown wind, with crown pull-out for adjusting the hands both ways, the other has a screw-on crown. Unscrewing it clockwise moves the hands anti-clockwise only - once it is unscrewed, turning the crown anti-clockwise does nothing - in particular it does not wind the mainspring.

I had assumed that this was a broken watch, and got a replacement, which did the same thing. I looked in vain on the net for any specific manual for the watch - the only documentation which came with it was a general purpose sheet of paper which told you to wind it up by the crown. I found that the watch often has poor reviews with people claiming that the wind is broken - but then I found some videos showing a winding technique for it involving spinning the rotor by slapping the watch on your palm. About 30-50 slaps winds it up completely.

I would like to know whether the watch is actually designed with no manual wind or not. Does anyone know if any other watches have been designed like this? Is the slapping technique a 'known' method for winding, or is it a fix to retain use of broken watches? It doesn't seem to be a good way to treat a watch, even if the 'slaps' are quite light...

It seems odd for this to be a common complaint about the watch, and for the manufacturer not to have mentioned it in instructions...


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## ziggy1024 (Dec 18, 2017)

Firstly, welcome! 

There are numerous automatic movements which can't be manually wound - Seiko being the obvious manufacturer of such things.

No idea whether your movement should feature manual winding though, I'm afraid!


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## Codger (Sep 13, 2018)

Thanks for the welcome! :thumbsup:

It sounds as if it is reasonable to design a movement with no manual wind, then - but I bet the Seikos you mention have the ability to adjust the hands in both directions...

If this watch is as designed, I suspect a lot of them are returned as faulty due to the complete lack of instructions covering manual winding. Do you know if there is a site which holds instructions for Forsining movements? The model I have is FSG9418M3S1....


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## ziggy1024 (Dec 18, 2017)

Codger said:


> It sounds as if it is reasonable to design a movement with no manual wind, then - but I bet the Seikos you mention have the ability to adjust the hands in both directions...


 I have one which currently doesn't - but that's just because the crown isn't attached to the stem properly! You're of course correct that not being able to do so would be daft.

I know nothing about Forsining, but have a read of this:

http://xflive.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?/topic/100371-cheap-chinese-mechanicals-further-notes-and-sources/&do=embed


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## Codger (Sep 13, 2018)

Thanks - I did search the forum before posting, and read that page - I suspect that it could be repeated for all Chinese export goods - knitware, plastics, tools, etc... It doesn't provide any manuals, however 

I note that you say that not being able to adjust both ways would be daft - but since the crown is screw-down onto the case it would be impossible to get a correct setting if you had 'both-ways' on this watch, because you could not predict how many turns would be needed to lock the crown.

Most watches would avoid this by having a pull-out detent to engage the hand-winding function. This watch seems to have an incredibly simple crown action - always engaged with the hands when turned anti-clockwise but locked by being screwed down onto the case.

Thinking about it, such a design decision makes sense. The other 'bar-type' movement I have does have a manual wind, and a pull-out hands adjustment - but it has quite a wide bar next to the crown to house the works. This watch has a slim bar all the way across.

Is there a special name for this kind of movement? Do you know if it's a Chinese design, or a cloned Western one?


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Codger said:


> range﻿ o﻿f cheap ﻿C﻿hinese watches which have the movement mounted in a thin bar running across﻿﻿ the f﻿a﻿c﻿e ﻿


 Here.

http://xflive.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?/topic/121144-afoshi-trading-and-ik-colouring-watches/&do=embed


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## Codger (Sep 13, 2018)

Yes, that's the range. I now have both the movements - though with low-cost watches, so they may be clones. Or someone getting rid of old stock - the one with no manual wind and hands only adjustable one way is the older superseded model. Thanks for your expertise!

Though cheap, the watches are, I think, of reasonable quality. And they certainly are a talking point.


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Good heavens, thanks for taking the trouble to use the search function to good effect by locating topics by me. :laugh:

Seriously though, I have researched and written a considerable amount for the Forum on cheap Chinese watches and I am sure that the Forsining brand has come up for discussion in one of my previous topics.


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## Codger (Sep 13, 2018)

Yes - there is a fair amount about them - but this oddity of an automatic with no manual wind and only one-way hand adjustment doesn't seem to be covered anywhere else on the net. I think it is causing a lot of confusion, as people think that the watch is faulty.

Incidentally, I think I have found a design flaw in the cheaper range of Forsining skeleton automatics. The rotor drives the mainspring through a gear train, which has a 'one-way ratchet' effect operated using a cog which is held loose in a cavity. When the rotor winds the cog is pushed into the gear train and turns it - when the rotor turns the other way the cog simply falls away. The problem is that this cog can get jammed into the gear train, locking the mainspring and stopping the watch. I suspect this is what lies behind a number of reports claiming that the watch 'only worked two weeks'....

I had this problem, removed the rotor assembly, and the watch now functions well as a simple manual (with a very strong luminous dial!). Your experts probably know about this already, but it was an interesting exercise for a newbie...


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Codger said:


> I suspect﻿﻿﻿ this is what lies behind a number of reports claiming that the watch 'only worked two﻿ ﻿wee﻿ks'....﻿


 And, probably you get what you pay for. :yes:


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## Codger (Sep 13, 2018)

Shame that saying doesn't operate in reverse.....


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Codger said:


> Shame that saying doesn't operate in reverse.....


 Possibly be reasonably safe with an Invicta.


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## Codger (Sep 13, 2018)

Cheapest still comes in at around £150...


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## it'salivejim (Jan 19, 2013)

The expression 'You get what you pay for' springs to mind. Bin it and move on.


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## Codger (Sep 13, 2018)

Why? It works as designed, and keeps good time. The big problem with this watch is that it has non-standard controls and is sold with no instructions, meaning that many people think it is faulty...


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Codger said:


> Shame that saying doesn't operate in reverse.....


 Sort of like saying "tock tick" ? :thumbsup:


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