# Ebay problems



## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

Ordered and paid for watch from Corsica (France) . Parcel force left card yesterday to say collect at local post office.

collected today, scruffy box with lots of brown tape. Arrived home.opened, nowt inside.!!!!!

contacted seller ,who appears legit, states watch posted inside box.

rang ebay asking advice, " open a case for non receipt" done.

ebay email discussions with seller ,yes the watch was in the box ,nothing to do with me guv ,your problem ,you might be claiming when there was a watch and you just took it..

any ideas ,claim open ,ebay says wait 8 days, before they jump in.

do I get the police involved seems to me watch was stolen from the box en route.

me down £130 , .


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

I video opening every parcel now. Sad i have to do it, but Sports Direct didn't include some items but swore they did. When I uploaded the video to YouTube, sent them the private link and asked them to refund they did.

Sorry this looks like it is going to be a bad experience for you. Did the photos show any serial numbers, and is it a rare watch? we could look out for it being relisted if it is, but if it is a mass produced watch with no distinguishing unique features then I fear you have lost your money. Worth persuing the eBay claim route though - they tend to side with buyers not sellers


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

scottswatches said:


> I video opening every parcel now. Sad i have to do it, but Sports Direct didn't include some items but swore they did. When I uploaded the video to YouTube, sent them the private link and asked them to refund they did.
> 
> Sorry this looks like it is going to be a bad experience for you. Did the photos show any serial numbers, and is it a rare watch? we could look out for it being relisted if it is, but if it is a mass produced watch with no distinguishing unique features then I fear you have lost your money. Worth persuing the eBay claim route though - they tend to side with buyers not sellers


 It was a seiko The Great Blue autoquartz thingy,not that many about.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

That's a shame, Chris...as you know, the 'Great Blue's are extremely rare and you were lucky to find one in the first place...which makes it even more gutting to have an empty parcel arrive. :taz: I hope you have some success with your claim. :yes:


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

bridgeman said:


> do I get the police involved seems to me watch was stolen from the box en route.


 I doubt the police would do much as the parcel passes through so many hands but they should issue an incident number. If the seller does the same in France then it might help with a claim against parcel force or the French equivalent. Who makes the claim would depend on what ebay decides.


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

If you paid via Paypal I think you should be able to claim a full refund, based on the fact that you didn't receive the item as described. I've only ever claimed from them once, when a watch arrived from China that was completely different to the advert (i.e. It was crap, and nothing like the photos either! :mad0218: ). The claim took a couple of weeks because the seller wanted me to send the item back, which would have cost more than the watch was worth. I appealed a few times via the Paypal claims system, and in the end I think they got bored with me and issued a full refund, plus I kept the crap watch :laughing2dw:

Worth a punt anyway, good luck mate.


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## Teg62x (Dec 28, 2016)

I have just received my money from eBay after a scammer tried to say I had sent dodgy cables with an old Xbox! Luckily I take photos of everything I send and I could clearly show that the to***r had changed the cable in the photo he claimed had arrived.

lesson learned by me is only sell to UK buyers!

hope you get it sorted out mate. :thumbsup:


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

Police said not interested, do not deal with this and referred me back to Ebay. 8 day wait before can escalate to full claim.


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## it'salivejim (Jan 19, 2013)

Problem is, how can you prove there was nothing in the box?

ebay usually sides with the buyer though so it should work out for you.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Nothing worse than being conned out of your hard earned.

It's the old box of bricks scam only you never even got the bricks.

Have you had a look at their profile/feedback on ebay, my money is on it not being the first time they've done it.


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

BondandBigM said:


> Nothing worse than being conned out of your hard earned.
> 
> It's the old box of bricks scam only you never even got the bricks.
> 
> Have you had a look at their profile/feedback on ebay, my money is on it not being the first time they've done it.


 All seemed legit...ebay for 10 plus years. ....not a huge seller ,or buyer come to that..judging by the scruffy packing tape I would say it's been tampered with en route ,but .........


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## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

bridgeman said:


> All seemed legit...ebay for 10 plus years. ....not a huge seller ,or buyer come to that..judging by the scruffy packing tape I would say it's been tampered with en route ,but .........


 Given the info thus far ... my gut feel is that it was stolen in Corsica by a French Mail employee... Its upto the seller to resolve that. You just need to keep the box and stick to your guns with eBay and the refund should follow. Also assuming you paid with a CC ( even via PayPal ) then you are covered that way also ....


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

It's a great shame this had to happen to one of the most genuine members of this forum.

I think Ebay will side with you.

Coffee on me when we next meet up.


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

Igerswis said:


> No sympathy from me.


 Was that really necessary?

:sign_wtf:


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## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

bridgeman said:


> Ordered and paid for watch from Corsica (France) . Parcel force left card yesterday to say collect at local post office.
> 
> collected today, scruffy box with lots of brown tape. Arrived home.opened, nowt inside.!!!!!
> 
> ...


 Ebay and Paypal have No idea who's telling the truth and as long as you have followed procedure will be refunded in full...always pay with your credit card when using Paypal you are covered fully..

All this take videos and weigh the item are Nonsene to anyone with half a brain as these events could be filmed/weighed after the item has been removed and the box resealed...it means Nothing

In hindsight and worth remembering you say the box looked scruffy when you collected it.what you should have done is opened the box in front of the post office employee then you would have a more solid case case...whenever the packet looks like it may have been tampered with always open on receiving with an impartial person and you will have a stronger case

is the seller dodgy... is the buyer dodgy... were the contents removed along the way...Nobody knows its the world we live in and scams are now becoming common practice...

Ebay is great and I have been using it to purchase and sell many high value items for many years just follow the rules and procedure's.

I hope you get a resolution which I'm sure you will and don't let this one bad experience ruin anything..Ebay is a medium like no other allowing buyers and sellers to enjoy a worldwide audience..

All The best Bridgeman :thumbsup:


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

Thank you all for the comments....yes lessons learned .....but many purchases and sales of all sorts of items this is the first time it's gone badly wrong ,often thought in fact how wonderful ebay is with things arriving and being sent all over and no problems for me.

obviously will be following this up,updates as and when.


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## Boots (Sep 22, 2018)

bridgeman said:


> Thank you all for the comments....yes lessons learned .....but many purchases and sales of all sorts of items this is the first time it's gone badly wrong ,often thought in fact how wonderful ebay is with things arriving and being sent all over and no problems for me.
> 
> obviously will be following this up,updates as and when.


 Well, I have the utmost sympathy for you. Others will doubtless call me naive and foolish, but when I get a parcel I am generally quite excited to open it - I don't want to weigh it and video me opening it, just in case it is empty, or the contents wrong.

Sure, we need to be cautious, especially (but not exclusively) with non-UK eBay parties, but we need to keep a sense of perspective.

Good luck with your claim.


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

I really don't see how videoing opening a parcel that showed signs of being tampered with would help. Anyway, my experience is eBay are deeply uninterested in evidence, they just want a quick resolution. The only good advice I can see here is to open a damaged parcel in front of the PO employee.

In something like 10 years buying and selling on eBay I've had one problem that didn't have a satisfactory resolution. That was someone using the id of a very reputable shop with exemplary feedback. So you just can't tell.


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

Igerswis said:


> Do you people never learn?
> 
> Video anything you receive and then being opened. Without this you have very little chance to claim anything from PayPal.
> 
> ...


 Ever thought of being a diplomat?.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

postal rule in Adams v Lindsell

http://www.e-lawresources.co.uk/Adams-v-Lindsell.php

However if its registered, tracked or signed for...

Acceptance takes place when you get it and open it, if there was no watch you have no contract as you can not Accept. Signed for post etc is an exception to the postal rule and A v L does not apply.

https://bscholarly.com/exceptions-to-the-rule-in-adams-v-lindsell-contract-law/

So if it was signed for you have a chance of avoiding the postal rule in common law (not sure what the up to date legislation is?)

i wouldnt bother with the police its not a criminal matter its a civil one they wont want to know.

Ignoring all the above you might need to check where the burden of proof falls (was the box weighed at point of posting? what did this show? what is the wight with a watch in the box as is? Facts like that might help.

I'd argue for an exception to the postal rule in A v L if it was signed for and you could not form a contract until the watch was received, it was not received only a box but then the b of p is with you (not good).



Igerswis said:


> Only other way of getting out of this is to check the weight of the parcel on the scales against the label on the package. If the packaging matches the weight then you may be able to prove the seller sent an empty box.


 agreed, will they really consider video evidence these days without knowledge of its origin? But in your above point yes.



spinynorman said:


> I really don't see how videoing opening a parcel that showed signs of being tampered with would help


 i dont video and photographic evidence are notoriously unreliable given proving the source with maybe the exception of dash cam cctv etc.

I think though to avoid further problems i would concentrate on ebay as they seem to side with buyers dont they? There is a greater chance nothing was put in the box or it was taken than there is you can be shown to be lieing, indeed accusing you of fibbing is quiet serious on their part tell them that.


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

Taking video is nonsense its a complete waste of time and proves nothing but if it makes some people feel better then go ahead, you can always upload to YouTube.

It's the one reason when I sell anything it gets packed to. survive a nuclear explosion, so if it's damaged at the other end the recipient should be very wary and open in front of the Postie /Courier.

In future I personally will pack then take a picture of said package and send it to the buyer for reference.

@bridgeman

Chris I am going to dig something out to cheer you up.

Not sure what yet though. :hmmm9uh:


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## GASHEAD (Aug 27, 2009)

Igerswis said:


> Do you people never learn?
> 
> Video anything you receive and then being opened. Without this you have very little chance to claim anything from PayPal.
> 
> ...


 ******.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

GASHEAD said:


> ******.


 did those stars end in 'off' :laugh:


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## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Video evidence is not necessary. The seller has to prove the item was in the box when it arrived, because the buyer is protected under UK consumer law if using a credit card whether that is with Paypal or not. If the seller used a proper courier like UPS then he would be fine , if he used the French Postal service then he is not fine , because that organisation is littered with thieves.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> The seller has to prove the item was in the box when it arrived


 how could they prove it? Is it not strict liability under the Act?


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## it'salivejim (Jan 19, 2013)

Igerswis said:


> Do you people never learn?
> 
> Video anything you receive and then being opened. Without this you have very little chance to claim anything from PayPal.
> 
> ...


 Bit harsh isn't it? I don't video every parcel I open - that would be a total pain in the arse.

Surely your ire should be reserved for the thieving scrote(s) that committed the crime?

I personally think he'll get the result from eBay, not PayPal.


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## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Nigelp said:


> how could they prove it? Is it not strict liability under the Act?


 They are legally responsible for the item until it comes into the possession of the buyer. As i understand it , it's not the responsibility of the buyer to prove he has not got it, because you can not prove a negative. This would come under the eBay fraudulent transaction radar anyway..... so forgetting consumer law, eBay will most probably refund the buyer. eBay will almost certainly judge that the seller has to take up the "theft" with the courier he chose to use.



it'salivejim said:


> Bit harsh isn't it? I don't video every parcel I open - that would be a total pain in the arse.


 Also unless the video was running continuously from just before the parcel was received to when it was opened then its not valid proof of anything.


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## Bonzodog (Aug 29, 2018)

PC-Magician said:


> Taking video is nonsense its a complete waste of time and proves nothing but if it makes some people feel better then go ahead, you can always upload to YouTube.
> 
> It's the one reason when I sell anything it gets packed to. survive a nuclear explosion, so if it's damaged at the other end the recipient should be very wary and open in front of the Postie /Courier.
> 
> ...


 I normally take a picture of packaging and send to buyer.


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## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

This is a right pain for you. I have lost out as both buyer and seller in the past. Unfortunately eBay is still the easiest and quickest way of buying stuff.

I once bought a vintage jump hour watch, described as working but accuracy not tested. The watch was rare and was very good aesthetically. On receipt it didn't work. At that stage I should have returned it, but as I liked it so much I contacted the seller to see what he could do. He advised I send it to his local independent jeweller, who could service it for about £40. His jeweller was about 10 miles away from where he lived. Stupidly enough I did this. Unbelievably enough the seller told me the jeweller had no phone, so I checked this out. Yep, he was telling the truth, a business without a phone. Apparently the business owner said they annoyed him. Two months later and still no watch. The seller kept making excuses about picking it up. Eventually I got quite curt with him, and he replied that he would only pick up the watch if I paid his fuel, and also for his time. I phoned ebay, and much to my surprise they refunded me. What was strange is that ebay withdrew the negative feedback I left the seller.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> They are legally responsible for the item until it comes into the possession of the buyer.


 strict liability then Act overrides postal rule in A v L

it was always a daft rule


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

Nigelp said:


> i wouldnt bother with the police its not a criminal matter its a civil one they wont want to know.


 The dispute between the buyer and seller would be a civil matter but surely if the seller sent a letter/email confirming the watch was in the box when he sent it and the buyer shows that to the police along with his assertion that the box was empty on receipt then it suggests a criminal offence has been committed whilst the watch was in transport. I could understand the police saying that investigating the crime would not be cost effective but surely they could issue a crime number or something.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

richy176 said:


> The dispute between the buyer and seller would be a civil matter but surely if the seller sent a letter/email confirming the watch was in the box when he sent it and the buyer shows that to the police along with his assertion that the box was empty on receipt then it suggests a criminal offence has been committed whilst the watch was in transport. I could understand the police saying that investigating the crime would not be cost effective but surely they could issue a crime number or something.


 i suppose so richy but its all a bit ''their word against yours'' if the Act that jonny mentions is as good as it sounds then there isnt a problem, i cant understand why ebay werent straight on that.



bridgeman said:


> contacted seller


 was it a business seller mate? might make a difference...



JonnyOldBoy said:


> because the buyer is protected under UK consumer law


 Jonny can you do a bit of leg work for us and let us know if the Act distinguishes between a seller acting in the course of business and one selling privately.

Thanks nige


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## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Nigelp said:


> i suppose so richy but its all a bit ''their word against yours'' if the Act that jonny mentions is as good as it sounds then there isnt a problem, i cant understand why ebay werent straight on that.
> 
> was it a business seller mate? might make a difference...
> 
> ...


 Sorry , no I meant the part of consumer law that relates to the use of credit cards etc etc ... its that part that kicks in here I think if the eBay internal policies come up short.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Sorry , no I meant the part of consumer law that relates to the use of credit cards etc etc ... its that part that kicks in here I think if the eBay internal policies come up short.


 im with you now mate.

thanks.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

bridgeman said:


> All seemed legit...ebay for 10 plus years. ....not a huge seller ,or buyer come to that..judging by the scruffy packing tape I would say it's been tampered with en route ,but .........


 I happened to catch a bit of one of those fraud buster type programs a bit back. It was almost exactly that, they thought the parcel looked a bit battered, scruffy tape, box split. The item was gone, a gold bracelet or chain of sort.

Initially it seemed possible but on further investigation they discovered that the damage to the box actually wasn't big enough to extract the supposedly enclosed item from the box and it turned out to have been what is apparently an increasingly popular scam with virtually no comeback on the sender, he was only caught out when asked a few questions and his answers didn't add up and he seemed overly keen to settle up quickly with the insurance company.


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

Will be giving Chris this.

Worn twice I think so is in perfect condition.

I just hope it cheers him up a little.


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

Certainly will! @PC-Magician But what happens if I get my money back?


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

bridgeman said:


> Certainly will! @PC-Magician But what happens if I get my money back?


 keep quiet and pretend you didnt....no no sorry to far just my evil sense of humour, i blame that @BondandBigM. I'll have it mate ease your mind just keep it between us and pm me.


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

bridgeman said:


> Certainly will! @PC-Magician But what happens if I get my money back?


 You but the coffee. :yes: nothing else changes.


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## Jet Jetski (Feb 10, 2019)

Igerswis said:


> Video anything you receive and then being opened. Without this you have very little chance to claim anything from PayPal.


 That would not have solved the problem in this instance if the package had already been opened and re-wrapped -the seller would say 'that's not the box I sent', or 'you already opened it and re-wrapped it'. You would have had to video receiving the parcel at the Post Office to show that is how it was handed to you!



it'salivejim said:


> No sympathy from me.


 so much for 'familia' lol


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## it'salivejim (Jan 19, 2013)

Jet Jetski said:


> so much for 'familia' lol


 Can you remove my name from your quote please. It wasn't me who said it. I was quoting Igirwis while disagreeing with him.

Don't want people thinking I'm a grumpy *******, do we now :laugh:


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## Jet Jetski (Feb 10, 2019)

it'salivejim said:


> Can you remove my name from your quote


 Oh hell sorry.

A mistake has been brought to our attention blah blah we apologise for any offence caused to Mr @it'salivejim by misattributing a knavish attitude and unreservedly etc. etc. while pointing out the undermentioned heretofore quotation from the actual grumpy ******* @Igerswis



Igerswis said:


> No sympathy from me.
> 
> To which @jetjetski intended to reply "so much for familia!"


 phew, think I got away with it.

Sorry!


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## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

Quick question. What would stop me carefully opening a tatty package, removing the item, taping the package back up, then videoing myself opening it. For this reason I don't think the video idea proves anything


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## it'salivejim (Jan 19, 2013)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> Quick question. What would stop me carefully opening a tatty package, removing the item, taping the package back up, then videoing myself opening it. For this reason I don't think the video idea proves anything


 Head … nail … head … hit


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## Jet Jetski (Feb 10, 2019)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> Quick question. What would stop me carefully opening a tatty package, removing the item, taping the package back up, then videoing myself opening it. For this reason I don't think the video idea proves anything


 Yeah, I think a few people have already posted to that effect ...


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Igerswis said:


> The weight of the package would be an issue.


 Weigh the package accurately before opening, remove item, replace with something weighing the same, and re seal. Then film your self opening the package. If there's a way around to complete a scam, someone will do it. You should see some of the simple yet ingenious scams I've encountered in my time regarding weight.


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

OP. Please don't fall out over this. Some merit in all the points .....will advise Result as soon as ebay swing into action.


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

Taking video still proves nothing.


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## Yanto (Sep 27, 2018)

bridgeman said:


> OP. Please don't fall out over this. Some merit in all the points .....will advise Result as soon as ebay swing into action.


 Wish you good luck


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

In the meantime, unexpected parcel turned up this morning.....glory hallelujah....some kind soul has found my missing watch and posted it on. Not on your Nellie......but was stunned to receive this from a member










and to cap it all a friendly note from a well respected member










Goodness what a wonderful forum this is and big thanks to @Davey P . Top man indeed.

will be using the tank in the morning to blast Ebay and PayPal for restoration of funds .


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

Delighted for you, Chris!

Very generous, Davey.

:thumbsup:


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## Bonzodog (Aug 29, 2018)

Great stuff gents :thumbsup:


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## andyclient (Aug 1, 2009)

Good on ya Davey what a lovely gesture :thumbs_up:


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## Boots (Sep 22, 2018)

Well done @Davey P!

Wear it with pride @bridgeman!


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

bridgeman said:


> Goodness what a wonderful forum this is and big thanks to @Davey P . Top man indeed.


 Ha ha, don't get too carried away mate, that watch came from Poundland, so it wasn't a massive investment... On the plus side, I did fit a new strap to it, which increased it's value 5-fold :laughing2dw:

It was just a bit of fun to cheer you up after your lousy ebay experience, that's all :thumbsup:


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## RoddyJB (May 11, 2008)

Ebay is seldom of any help. Years ago, my brother sold a really nice Omega chrono on eBay. The buyer filed a not as described with eBay and said he would like to return it..

There had been many other bids so my brother figured he would sell it to the next bidder.

The package came, my brother signed for it at the door & the driver left.

He opened the package to find a cheap $5 watch. He contacted ebay but by the time he did the electronic record of delivery had registered and the buyer got his refund immediately. The crooked buyer got an Omega for free.

eBay take on the situation was basically this... Sorry mate but you signed for it & did nothing..

If you ever sell on ebay and get a return, do not sign for any package until you inspect the contents...


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## ong (Jul 31, 2008)

I've given up selling watches on ebay. Used to be good but recently three watches I've sold have had to be relisted due to non payment. Ebay has also recently had its share of hackers impersonating users and some who think it's a great laugh to overbid and then not pay.

I'm done with all this, which is a great shame but in my opinion Ebay is ruinef for honest sellers.


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## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

ong said:


> I've given up selling watches on ebay. Used to be good but recently three watches I've sold have had to be relisted due to non payment. Ebay has also recently had its share of hackers impersonating users and some who think it's a great laugh to overbid and then not pay.
> 
> I'm done with all this, which is a great shame but in my opinion Ebay is ruinef for honest sellers.


 I agree actually, but still think eBay is a great place for trade sellers and private buyers.... just note private sellers and trade buyers.


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

ong said:


> I'm done with all this, which is a great shame but in my opinion Ebay is ruinef for honest sellers.
> 
> Not great for honest buyers either, especially when the bent seller can set up immediately with a new name and carry on selling fakes :fyou:


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## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

ong said:


> I've given up selling watches on ebay. Used to be good but recently three watches I've sold have had to be relisted due to non payment. Ebay has also recently had its share of hackers impersonating users and some who think it's a great laugh to overbid and then not pay.
> 
> I'm done with all this, which is a great shame but in my opinion Ebay is ruinef for honest sellers.


 Despite its Issue's/ problems Ebay remains a great platform for both Buyers and sellers .its unlike any other and is just a reflection of our ever changing World with regards Scammers which are becoming more common place in our lives on a daily basis.. I have been using Ebay since its concept and think its brilliant a great place of reference for true sold market prices on any item....Although if you have genuinely been caught you will understandably have a very different opinion...Dodgy sellers... Dodgy buyers ...Dodgy postal companies..its all part and parcel of Todays World.


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## r-macus (Jun 7, 2018)

You just can't trust anyone or anything nowadays. Its a case of being extra vigilant. This stuff has always been going on, used to be down the pub or boot of a car, just times have changed to facilitate the cyber era.


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

Not great for honest buyers either, especially when the bent seller can set up immediately with a new name and carry on selling fakes.

The seller was closed down a couple of times but keeps coming back.It was over 6 months after bought a Hydroconquest that I found out it was more than likely snide.

I had to get somebody on another watch site to shut the tw4t down as when i reported it to Ebay they did nothing even when i also reported it to Longines.


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## owain1 (Oct 13, 2016)

Get him to show the weight of the box on the postal receipt and weigh the parcel that arrived

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

owain1 said:


> Get him to show the weight of the box on the postal receipt and weigh the parcel that arrived
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


 What would that prove? If I bought a watch from you and then asked for a refund, I could just weigh your watch with box etc and then weigh the cheap one I planned to return. If my one weighed 100gm less than your one then I could just put 100gm of rice or pasta etc in a small bag and pop that in my package. You would still be faced with the problem of proving that the package you signed for did not contain your watch.


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

Davey P said:


> Ha ha, don't get too carried away mate, that watch came from Poundland, so it wasn't a massive investment... On the plus side, I did fit a new strap to it, which increased it's value 5-fold :laughing2dw:
> 
> It was just a bit of fun to cheer you up after your lousy ebay experience, that's all :thumbsup:


 I had this very Watch in my hand this morning and it looks and feels pretty good to be honest.

Chris bought the Drinks and I handed over the Accurist.

Well done Davey.


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

PC-Magician said:


> I had this very Watch in my hand this morning and it looks and feels pretty good to be honest.
> 
> Chris bought the Drinks and I handed over the Accurist.
> 
> Well done Davey.


 You're supposed to keep the workings of the RLT York branch under a shroud of secrecy. :taz:

Accurist Clerkenwell passed the biggest test, her ladyship asked if I had just bought it!! Cracking watch ,big thanks Jon.


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

bridgeman said:


> You're supposed to keep the workings of the RLT York branch under a shroud of secrecy. :taz:
> 
> Accurist Clerkenwell passed the biggest test, her ladyship asked if I had just bought it!! Cracking watch ,big thanks Jon.


 Sorry. :biggrin:

No direct locations given away or the cost of drinks.

However Mr Bridgeman gave me this and frankly I was gob smacked he is totally selfless and a very good freind all thanks to Roy and this forum.

She who must be obeyed is also lovely.

My Wrist shot I am sure Chris will follow.

The Mighty Momentum Square One.


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

PC-Magician said:


> I had this very Watch in my hand this morning and it looks and feels pretty good to be honest.
> 
> Chris bought the Drinks and I handed over the Accurist.
> 
> Well done Davey.


 You're supposed to keep the workings of the RLT York branch under a shroud of secrecy. :taz:

Accurist Clerkenwell passed the biggest test, her ladyship asked if I had just bought it!! Cracking watch ,big thanks Jon.

Back slapping over......back to original post of Non existant watch from France in a parcel.

45 minutes ,travel time and a gallon of petroleum wasted on a visit to Malton police station to get an Ebay form signed ,then to be emailed back to Ebay saying I had been to the police and got an incident number.

Police officer with a distinct resemblance to the late Alf Ventriss of Heartbeat fame refused, with reasonable explanations, to sign anything saying that the original statement from Northallerton police was correct and it was not a police problem at all.

Email Back to Ebay waiting for response.


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

bridgeman said:


> You're supposed to keep the workings of the RLT York branch under a shroud of secrecy. :taz:
> 
> Accurist Clerkenwell passed the biggest test, her ladyship asked if I had just bought it!! Cracking watch ,big thanks Jon.


 Picture?


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)




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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

bridgeman said:


> You're supposed to keep the workings of the RLT York branch under a shroud of secrecy. :taz:
> 
> Accurist Clerkenwell passed the biggest test, her ladyship asked if I had just bought it!! Cracking watch ,big thanks Jon.
> 
> ...


 I wonder what the police do these days, not a lot it would seem.


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## Slim2500 (Jul 10, 2016)

I sell quite a few watches on eBay i always use the Ebay global shipping program for any international buyers ,


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## Boots (Sep 22, 2018)

PC-Magician said:


> I wonder what the police do these days, not a lot it would seem.


 Spend a lot of time saying "Nah, we don't do that!"


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

PC-Magician said:


> The Mighty Momentum Square One.


 Nice looking watch but is there a hidden message behind this gift? Does @bridgeman know that you are a great fan of Corbyn? Has he switched loyalty to Big Boris or is it just to make @Turpinr fume with envy because he does not have a `Momentum' watch?


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

richy176 said:


> Nice looking watch but is there a hidden message behind this gift? Does @bridgeman know that you are a great fan of Corbyn? Has he switched loyalty to Big Boris or is it just to make @Turpinr fume with envy because he does not have a `Momentum' watch?


 Oh you rotter :laugh:


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## Watch-and-C (Oct 13, 2019)

Turpinr said:


> Not great for honest buyers either, *especially when the bent seller can set up immediately with a new name* and carry on selling fakes.
> 
> The seller was closed down a couple of times but keeps coming back.It was over 6 months after bought a Hydroconquest that I found out it was more than likely snide.
> 
> I had to get somebody on another watch site to shut the tw4t down as when i reported it to Ebay they did nothing even when i also reported it to Longines.


 Don't they also need a new postal address (and maybe bank details?*)

* I can't recall the required details


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

Watch-and-C said:


> Don't they also need a new postal address (and maybe bank details?*)
> 
> * I can't recall the required details


 I don't know about that sorry.

The pics and wording hadn't changed from watchcompany-1 who I bought from to the next name they used but when that one was shut down they tried a different format.They also sold snide Tags which was why they were shut down.

They have a shop in Walthamstow called rafiqwatchcoltd.


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## Boots (Sep 22, 2018)

I noticed two different eBay accounts which clearly were using pictures of watches taken in the same location (they were outdoors, with a curved low brick wall beyond the watch). I couldn't understand why someone would want multiple eBay accounts?


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## andyclient (Aug 1, 2009)

Boots said:


> I noticed two different eBay accounts which clearly were using pictures of watches taken in the same location (they were outdoors, with a curved low brick wall beyond the watch). *I couldn't understand why someone would want multiple eBay accounts?*


 I'm assuming so they can bid up their own items , had it happen to me once a chap bid me up to £500 for a set of wheels using another account he had , fortunately for me one of the wheels was badly buckled so I returned the wheels and got a refund .
It was only afterwards that I found out he'd been using another account to bid me up , so a lucky escape really


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## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

andyclient said:


> I'm assuming so they can bid up their own items , had it happen to me once a chap bid me up to £500 for a set of wheels using another account he had , fortunately for me one of the wheels was badly buckled so I returned the wheels and got a refund .
> It was only afterwards that I found out he'd been using another account to bid me up , so a lucky escape really


 Shill bidding is greatly reduced on eBay now. Mainly due to eBay's "sweeping" algorithm that checks account activity and spots "co-incidences" of bidding by accounts. It very hard to shill bid on eBay as a regular practice and get away with it. The main reasons sellers have multiple accounts is because it helps saturate the listing search returns. Having multiple accounts and duplicate listing is banned on the Bay but a few canny sellers ( and almost all sellers from one particular Asian country ) seems to get away with it....

Shill bidding is only ever a problem for a buyer , if the buyer does not stick to the golden rule bidding; Set your maximum price and stick to it, and don't put in your maximum until the very last seconds. It was shill bidding that led to the practice of "sniping" when bidding, but its one way to protect against shill bidding because doing it that way means the seller is in danger of winning their own item and quick cancellations without comms alerts the eBay sweep algorithm.


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## andyclient (Aug 1, 2009)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Shill bidding is greatly reduced on eBay now. Mainly due to eBay's "sweeping" algorithm that checks account activity and spots "co-incidences" of bidding by accounts. It very hard to shill bid on eBay as a regular practice and get away with it. The main reasons sellers have multiple accounts is because it helps saturate the listing search returns. Having multiple accounts and duplicate listing is banned on the Bay but a few canny sellers ( and almost all sellers from one particular Asian country ) seems to get away with it....
> 
> Shill bidding is only ever a problem for a buyer , if the buyer does not stick to the golden rule bidding; Set your maximum price and stick to it, and don't put in your maximum until the very last seconds. It was shill bidding that led to the practice of "sniping" when bidding, but its one way to protect against shill bidding because doing it that way means the seller is in danger of winning their own item and quick cancellations without comms alerts the eBay sweep algorithm.


 I appreciate what you're saying and we've both discussed the problem before on other threads , but as someone who attends auction houses on a weekly basis and is in contact with buyers at these actions that then sell on Ebay , I can categorically assure you it still goes on big time , yes the seller sometimes gets left holding the baby and has to pay the seller fees to not upset the algorithm, sometimes the seller gets a short ban as does their counterpart, but with the amount of fees they are paying to Ebay they never seem to get more that a slight slap on the wrist


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## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

andyclient said:


> I appreciate what you're saying and we've both discussed the problem before on other threads , but as someone who attends auction houses on a weekly basis and is in contact with buyers at these actions that then sell on Ebay , I can categorically assure you it still goes on big time , yes the seller sometimes gets left holding the baby and has to pay the seller fees to not upset the algorithm, sometimes the seller gets a short ban as does their counterpart, but with the amount of fees they are paying to Ebay they never seem to get more that a slight slap on the wrist


 Yes I know it goes on ... and I know eBay are lazy in stopping sellers returning ... but compared to the "bad old days", it is much improved.

Personally ... with regards Watches ... I would never even consider bidding for a watch on the Bay if it was serious money £1000+ , I would only ever buy from a fixed price listing from a trade seller , or in certain circumstances ( and not many ) a private seller....


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

OP anupdate......

5 emails and responses to eBay ....all in polite language and polite responses.

ebay still insisting their form is signed by a police officer and for the second time this has been refused.

(only needs an incident/crime number)

ebay response is to trawl police stations until somebody does sign it!!!! Not doing that and original first request and answer probably on record anyway and referred back to.

have asked ebay for a definitive answer as to what they propose to do.....

reading up on paypal and eBay would seem if approach paypal whilst ebay case still open then ebay automatically closes case.

.updates as and when

for definitive answer


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## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

bridgeman said:


> OP anupdate......
> 
> 5 emails and responses to eBay ....all in polite language and polite responses.
> 
> ...


 Don't know if you have spoken to them direct as I find with emails its often a computer generated generic reply which often has very little to do with the original question...08003586551 is the Ebay Help centre I found them most helpful when I had an issue some months back its also a Freephone number...


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

OP....recap ...seiko THE GREAT BLUE ordered from France. Box arrived at local PO ,collected,opened at home NO WATCH inside.

dIscussions with eBay net result zilch see today's emails below.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

That last email appears to be no help at all...in fact it looks as though they've washed their hands of it and closed the case. So what are you supposed to do if the police won't supply a crime number?


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

Roger the Dodger said:


> That last email appears to be no help at all...in fact it looks as though they've washed their hands of it and closed the case. So what are you supposed to do if the police won't supply a crime number?


 That's been the whole problem from the start Roger. Plus unable to leave the house for week because of hospital stuff means claim has run out of time as well, no excuses accepted!!


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

bridgeman said:


> That's been the whole problem from the start Roger. Plus unable to leave the house for week because of hospital stuff means claim has run out of time as well, no excuses accepted!!


 Perhaps it might be worth making the phone call and explaining the situation to a 'real' person as @Speedy112 suggests....unless you've already done it...?


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## it'salivejim (Jan 19, 2013)

That's 5hitty 

Did you pay through PP? Was it via a Credit Card? Try a PP claim or try a chargeback on the CC. Or contact your bank and start a fraud case.

Did you ask the seller for a scan of his original postal receipt with the weight of the box shown? Then weigh your empty box.

There has to be a way to get your money back. Ebay's stance effectively gives every seller licence to post empty boxes.


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## ziggy1024 (Dec 18, 2017)

it'salivejim said:


> Did you pay through PP? Was it via a Credit Card? Try a PP claim or try a chargeback on the CC.


 I've only ever had to do that once (and a while ago too!), but it was the easiest thing in the world: a quick phonecall to the card company and the charge was instantly removed from my card. Well worth a try if applicable in this case...


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## Bonzodog (Aug 29, 2018)

*So much for buyer protection.*


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## Richard734 (Jul 17, 2019)

Hate EBay. I won't sell on there, and rarely buy anything I can't afford to lose the money on. 
Buyers can't be trusted (sorry honest ones) So many dodgy sellers, with fiddles and scams that are designed to get round EBays rules.

would much rather find people on interest based forums who have a real (well as real as the internet can get) reputation to maintain.


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## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Bonzodog said:


> *So much for buyer protection.*


 did you log this incident originally with ActionFraud ?


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> did you log this incident originally with ActionFraud ?


 No, specifically excludes such occurrences when you get into the detail


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

I don't know if this will help, but I had a dispute with paypal about a watch that was totally different to the advertised one (it was a "smart watch" so I guess I deserved to be shafted :laughing2dw: ). I refused to send the watch back to the Chinese seller at my expense, which would have cost as much as the total cost of the watch. After a few emails backwards and forwards they concluded that nothing more could be done I tried one more email, and simply stated "I do not accept your decision", and in the end I think they got so fed up with me I got a full refund, and was told I could keep the watch :thumbs_up:

Don't give up mate, you are in email contact with them now, so keep pestering them. You've got a valid reason for missing their 10 day deadline, so be firm and tell them you don't accept their decision.

Good luck mate :biggrin:


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

OP......Now with paypal claims who looking in to it.....suspect they just ask ebay what went off ,,,,,,expected decision shortly


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

bridgeman said:


> OP......Now with paypal claims who looking in to it.....suspect they just ask ebay what went off ,,,,,,expected decision shortly


 Chris I will back you any way I can so if needed please ask.


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

OP..... remember was down 125£ because imported ebay box from Corsica contained exactly nowt instead of a Seiko THe Great Blue.

ebay decided against any recompense. 
update......passed problem over to Paypal , Signed the affidavit they sent that had not received the watch.............Just informed me they will refund the whole amount plus my postage.....

winner.....and it's my 70th birthday today as well..... nice present amongst the others!

Thanks all for the advice and support , helped a lot In the case. :rltrlt:


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

bridgeman said:


> OP..... remember was down 125£ because imported ebay box from Corsica contained exactly nowt instead of a Seiko THe Great Blue.
> 
> ebay decided against any recompense.
> update......passed problem over to Paypal , Just informed me they will refund the whole amount plus my postage.....
> ...


 :clap:


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## Bonzodog (Aug 29, 2018)

bridgeman said:


> OP..... remember was down 125£ because imported ebay box from Corsica contained exactly nowt instead of a Seiko THe Great Blue.
> 
> ebay decided against any recompense.
> update......passed problem over to Paypal , Signed the affidavit they sent that had not received the watch.............Just informed me they will refund the whole amount plus my postage.....
> ...


 Excellent news,and happy birthday

,


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

Nice one @bridgeman really glad you got a result, and happy birthday to you mate :yahoo:


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## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Top stuff ....  Cinderella Story ... :thumbsup:


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## mrzee (Jun 22, 2012)

Glad you got it sorted in the end. Happy birthday!


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## andyclient (Aug 1, 2009)

So glad it all worked out well for you , happy birthday :thumbs_up:


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## Pete wilding (Jul 13, 2017)

Good news.......happy birthday


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## Cyclops930 (Oct 20, 2017)

Good to hear that you finally got it sorted.

Happy birthday :thumbsup:


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## Richard734 (Jul 17, 2019)

Happy Birthday!


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Right result in the end, and a happy birthday.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Brilliant outcome, Chris. Happy birthday, chap. :thumbsup:


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## it'salivejim (Jan 19, 2013)

bridgeman said:


> OP..... remember was down 125£ because imported ebay box from Corsica contained exactly nowt instead of a Seiko THe Great Blue.
> 
> ebay decided against any recompense.
> update......passed problem over to Paypal , Signed the affidavit they sent that had not received the watch.............Just informed me they will refund the whole amount plus my postage.....
> ...


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## Boots (Sep 22, 2018)

That's great news!


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