# So, Why Dont We Like Quartz Watches?



## sheepsteeth (Dec 14, 2009)

As the title suggests, why dont folk tend to like quartz watches? what is it about them that turns folk off, from what i can gather, they are more accurate, require less maintenance, can be picked up and put on without any faff (i would imagine this is a good thing for those amongst you with a billion watches)


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## lewjamben (Dec 4, 2007)

There are plenty of us who like quartz, but they just lack some of the magic of their mechanical counterparts.


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## jeffvader (Jun 10, 2008)

I have some hummers & megaquartz, but I don't own a modern quartz.

I look at a modern quartz movement & it does nothing for me. So that's why I don't want one.


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## BlueKnight (Oct 29, 2009)

I like 'em all!

I also like Formula One and Nascar.

82 ChÃ¢teau Lafite and a cold Bud.

Etc...Etc...

Everything else is a


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## cg360 (Dec 2, 2009)

I have no problem with quartz, or indeed solar or whatever, but automatic or hand-wind is what I prefer. Something about moving parts over electricity/electronics.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

because they tick!


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## stolid (Aug 21, 2009)

The second hand flaps around

Resale isn't as strong

When the battery runs out they stop working and get put in a drawer somewhere

Will always remind me of plastic Swatches


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)




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## sheepsteeth (Dec 14, 2009)

aaah, i take it back, it appears maybe there are plenty of folk who like em.

so, another question f you will indulge me:

whats the advantage to or what makes folk like/prefer handwound watches. my steinhart is hand wound (or hand driven according to the german translation!) and feels lovely to wind but i was under the impression its quite an old fashioned type of thing.


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## lewjamben (Dec 4, 2007)

Yep, you're right, Bond. That looks nothin' like a Swatch!


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Nowt wrong with quartz!


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

lewjamben said:


> Yep, you're right, Bond. That looks nothin' like a Swatch!


:lol: :lol:


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## sheepsteeth (Dec 14, 2009)

jonw:

they are interesting looking, i wonder if the guy who designed those thought we would all be driving in hover cars and wearing space suits!


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## handlehall (Aug 7, 2009)

sheepsteeth said:


> jonw:
> 
> they are interesting looking, i wonder if the guy who designed those thought we would all be driving in hover cars and wearing space suits!


I still haven't given up on hover cars in my lifetime :astro: regards Steve Zodiac


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## itsguy (Nov 16, 2009)

Nothing wrong with them - especially that Oysterquartz, what an absolute stunner.

But a mechanical movement makes me think of a beautiful gleaming machine that I can understand, everything in harmony, and from there on to the harmony time, space, matter, gravity, fundamental forces, the cosmos...

Quartz movements make me think of green plastic circuit boards, which are mainly symbolic of... green plastic circuit boards.

So in other words, quartz lacks a certain poetry. Or else is insufficiently pretentious.

Oysterquartz and Megaquartz not included though, they conjure up the idea of a bygone technical frontier, rather than cutting corners and building to a price.

PS - had to edit and add - great stardust dial - The Cosmic Disco!


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## sheepsteeth (Dec 14, 2009)

itsguy said:


> So in other words, quartz lacks a certain poetry. *Or else is insufficiently pretentious.*


i wonder if that is the sound of a nail being hit on the head.


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

I've a number of straightforward quartz models, as well as the mechanicals, automatics, hummers, electronic. Some look better than others, some keep better time, but I bought them all because *I *liked them.


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## itsguy (Nov 16, 2009)

sheepsteeth said:


> itsguy said:
> 
> 
> > So in other words, quartz lacks a certain poetry. *Or else is insufficiently pretentious.*
> ...


Um... yes Sheepsteeth, that was kind of my point in the first place! Great command of bold type there though.

But I was only half joking, there is a romance to mechanical movements and watchmakers of the past clearly thought so too. It's probably one of the reasons people still choose them.


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## sheepsteeth (Dec 14, 2009)

sorry if you misunderstood, i was agreeing with the point, not criticising it.

its interesting to see that opinions of quartz watches arent so cut and dry as i had wrongly assumed.


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## itsguy (Nov 16, 2009)

sheepsteeth said:


> sorry if you misunderstood, i was agreeing with the point, not criticising it.
> 
> its interesting to see that opinions of quartz watches arent so cut and dry as i had wrongly assumed.


Sorry it's been a long day!


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## mjolnir (Jan 3, 2006)

Can't go wrong with a nice quartz watch. They aren't all created equally you know 










But then I enjoy wearing this one as well










I also enjoyed the RLT15 I owned and I thought the Seamaster Mariner I had to be very special indeed.


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

sheepsteeth said:


> As the title suggests, why dont folk tend to like quartz watches? what is it about them that turns folk off, from what i can gather, they are more accurate, require less maintenance, can be picked up and put on without any faff (i would imagine this is a good thing for those amongst you with a billion watches)


I liken quartz watches to ballpoint pens and mechanical watches to fountain pens.

Quartz watches and BP pens are boring, mass-produced items without any individuality and soul and character of their own. Any which they have is just the simple 'shell' on the outside, while inside, the watches or the pens are all essentially the same.

On the other hand, mechanical watches and fountain pens are mechanical marvels. Think of the intricacy that goes into making an accurate timepiece that's powered purely by a wound up spring? Or in the workings of a tiny fountain pen nib to make the pen write smoothly and effortlessly? No two mech. watches are the same, just like no two FPs are the same. They all have their little differences which gives them individuality and character. That's why I love them.

...Okay, I've said my piece. You can tie me to the stake and burn me whenever you're ready.


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## sheepsteeth (Dec 14, 2009)

mjolnir:

i wore gshocks for years until i treated myself to a pro trek last yr after some time working abroad.

sorry to go a little off topic but the second pic intrigues me (due to my bicycle perversion) whats the bike? a cube perhaps?


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## Robert (Jul 26, 2006)

Shangas said:


> On the other hand, mechanical watches and fountain pens are mechanical marvels.


Absolutely, but the Seiko I am wearing is also a marvel. Solar powered and radio controlled in something so small.

It tells me the time all the time. When I put on a mechanical I regularly have to tell it the time first.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

I like quartz watches, my CWC G10s are a firm favourite.

A good quartz watch is as good a watch as any other, not everyone wants a conversation piece on their wrist....................

all the time.


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## mjolnir (Jan 3, 2006)

sheepsteeth said:


> whats the bike? *a cube perhaps?*


That's a very good guess :thumbsup:

Edit: Just checked the picture and saw the BE on the mech hanger. Good eyes.

It's a cube reaction... well sort of. I bought a Cube frame and built up the bike around that. I didn't really need a new bike I just felt like building one  and it gave me the opportunity to put road tyres on my other and use it for getting around. Or at least to the pub.

Anyway, to keep this on topic.

How can anyone say this has no soul?










Quartz can be awesome too


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Well i agree with the 'technical frontier' comment, the early quartz were something to behold, and very very well made. not much green circuit board and plastic to be seen, in fact they were build with a lot of jewels and also brass plates etc.

Rob, love this pic:


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## kc104 (May 1, 2009)

Here is my summary for this debate :

(1) Quartz tick which is not as nice or expensive looking as a sweep.

(2) You can't have radio controlled autos therefore if you want accuracy its quartz all the way

(3) When you own an auto, you feel as one with it, it's a partnership, you power it and it goes. This phycologically give the person a good feeling.

(4) They are true wonders (autos) much more complex than quartz

(5) Quartz cost money to change battery - less on servicing though.

(5b) You could have a nice auto and never service it, and with many they will go on and on and on, therefore no cost involved (although not recommended)

(6) If you have many watches, and they are auto, you need winders and almost a tally system to remember which one is wound. Quartz can be left in a draw for a week then brought out for a saturday night out.

(7) Cost - quartz movements are CHEEEAAAP to make but companies like Tag charge a lot for them when the movement might cost them 20 pounds + mods.

(7b) Similar case with auto's e.g. an ETA for a breitling but not quite such a rip off.

(8) X factor - always gona be auto, if you want to impress = auto


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

I think it depends... modern quartz is a useful addition as a grab n go watch, but vintage quartz is classy and certianly not 20quid movts. Servicing an MC or OysterQuartz is a 400+ quid job and not for the faint hearted, but then the watch is worth 2k+ so...

Here is a modern Quartz Ive worn a lot, especially travelling...


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## vamos666 (May 20, 2009)

kc104 said:


> (4) They are true wonders (autos) much more complex than quartz


i think a mechanism which counts the number of times an object resonates in fractions of a second might be a bit more complex than generating electricity.

again, i'm probably wrong!


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Oddly I'm not that bothered about what's inside. I buy watches I like the look of. I have some cheap mechanicals and some expensive quartz and vice versa. I appreciate what goes into a mechaical watch but it's not the be all and end all. So long as it tells the time that's the important bit


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## sheepsteeth (Dec 14, 2009)

vamos666 said:


> kc104 said:
> 
> 
> > (4) They are true wonders (autos) much more complex than quartz
> ...


in laymans terms, i do think that counting the number of times a tiny crystal resonates is a bit more scientific than winding a spring with a rotor. hell, my pro trek even communicates with another clock situated miles away automatically every night and draws power from the sun itself, just like all living things: its alive, surely that has more soul than a simple, primitive mechanical watch?? and you should see the lume!! its a veritable torch light!:










[runsforcover]sheepsteeth[/runsforcover]

edit: it also tells me the temperature, direction of north and tries to trick me into believing when i am stood on the beach that i am 472ft above sea level. see, it even has a sense of humour!


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## Clum (Feb 14, 2009)

BondandBigM said:


> Oddly I'm not that bothered about what's inside. I buy watches I like the look of. I have some cheap mechanicals and some expensive quartz and vice versa. I appreciate what goes into a mechaical watch but it's not the be all and end all. So long as it tells the time that's the important bit


I was going to say the same thing earlier! But didn't for some reason...

I too buy watches I like the look of, but also try to have watches with different inners. I love the sweep of a high-grade automatic and the feeling of looking at a nicely decorated movement, but if I really cared what was inside, then I wouldn't own all the cheap quartz and cheap dull mechanical watches that I do (some movements are an eyesore).


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

I love quartz... ( Good quartz )

I think the 'problem' with quartz is that it comes very very cheap, it can come very very expensive too but most people dismiss the good ones and lump them in the same general quartz is cheap camp, a bit like most people regard Seiko as a low range cheap watch maker, and dont take the 5-10k high end Seiko watches seriously...


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

I have some quartz for when I am working outside, training, cycling, etc I also like to have one quartz in my watch box to use to set my auto's.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

I think 10 year battery quartz are a good option, and better than solar or kinetic


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

kc104 said:


> (5) Quartz cost money to change battery - less on servicing though.
> 
> (7) Cost - quartz movements are CHEEEAAAP to make but companies like Tag charge a lot for them when the movement might cost them 20 pounds + mods.


Not all Quartz movements are quite so 'cheap'. :tongue2:.

I give you the Ferrari Cal. 531, as used in the Cartier-built Ferrari Formula chrono's of the late 1980's:










Specification: 15 Jewels; All metal gear train; 4 stepper motors; adjustable for accuracy by +/-0.25 seconds/day.

In case that spec. sounds vaguely familiar, it *is* exactly the same as a Seiko 7A38 movement ....

.... (or a Shimauchi Ltd. V906) apart from the different printing on the anti-magnetic shield plate !

And a Cartier agent would have charged you *50 Quid* for the privilige of having a battery changed ....

..... in the days when they could still get away with it.

It's all about branding and watch snobbery, Gentlemen. :thumbsdown:


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## JTW (Jun 14, 2007)

Personally I prefer analogue watches over digital, manuals and autos rather than quartz.

I dislike watches you have to press a button on to see the time (though I do wish I hadn't chucked my Sinclair Black Watch!)

In the end it's all a matter of taste, but all communities have to have their controversies

Vinyl vs Digital

Valve (tube) vs transistor

Microsoft vs Apple

Linux vs the world

Steam vs diesel / electric

Sometimes it serves to divert attention from important questions like "why isn't there more good music around?"

But probably more importantly* " why haven't I got a girlfriend?"

* not here of course!


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Another great modern quartz... Sinn EZM2


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

I used to think quartz were nasty `orrible, souless things but although I still prefer mechanicals I`ve come to appreciate them & now own quite few 

As for Electrics & Hummers, well they are just soooo kewl unk:



JTW said:


> Vinyl vs Digital
> 
> Valve (tube) vs transistor


`V` in both cases :thumbup:

Although as with quartz, I have come to appreciate the althernatives :wink2:


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## mjolnir (Jan 3, 2006)

JonW said:


> Rob, love this pic:


Thanks Jon 

Just been giving it some thought and i've had a few more quartz, or electronic at least, watches that have been outstanding.

I wish I hadn't had to let this one go although it's gone to a good home. It's one of the best looking watches i've had.










The Titus SM300 was another great one. The ESA tuning fork movt inside was a looker as well. No green circuitboards on show in there.










I really like Mac's Omega Calypso. An Oysterquartz would be nice and i've always wanted to try a Breitling Emergency... There are as many quartz watches as there are mechanical that I would like to get my hands on


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## diddy (Jun 18, 2007)

"When I put on a mechanical I regularly have to tell it the time first"

:lol: but true.

i appreciate this for the technology inside.it is only 5mm thick  very easy to read,sapphire crystal and doesn't feel like you're wearing a land mine on your wrist :lol:


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

diddy said:


> "When I put on a mechanical I regularly have to tell it the time first"
> 
> :lol: but true.
> 
> i appreciate this for the technology inside.it is only 5mm thick  very easy to read,sapphire crystal and doesn't feel like you're wearing a land mine on your wrist :lol:


Yep, I've got the same but pvd gold over all st steel case.

Brilliant little watch that you can barely feel is on your wrist


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## diddy (Jun 18, 2007)

Griff said:


> diddy said:
> 
> 
> > "When I put on a mechanical I regularly have to tell it the time first"
> ...


agree griff,i've also got this one and could really get into these "ultra thins"


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## gcleminson (Jun 25, 2009)

kc104 said:


> (8) X factor - always gona be auto, if you want to impress = auto


Depends on who you're trying to impress!

I saw one of the new Aerospace models (white dial) the other day & I'm currently on the hunt for an X-33- both impressive watches in their own way.

I'm particularly intrigued by the X-33's looks- it manages to look attractive and butt-ugly at the same, like some eastern block town monument from the early 80's !!


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## itsguy (Nov 16, 2009)

I think we all like watches that we think are a bit special in some way or other. Quartz movements made in their millions that aren't unusually accurate or built to last, and who's main advantage is that they are cheap, obviously don't seem that special. But there are still many many quartz watches that are special for one reason or another. You would want to think that a bit of love went into it at least, and that the beauty isn't just skin deep.


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## mjolnir (Jan 3, 2006)

gcleminson said:


> I'm particularly intrigued by the X-33's looks- it manages to look attractive and butt-ugly at the same, like some eastern block town monument from the early 80's !!




I really like that. I think that pretty much sums it up for me too.


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## TomGW (Mar 29, 2008)

For me, the attraction of an auto or handwind is the knowledge that there is a piece of precision engineering inside, which looks like a proper piece of machinery that can be taken apart and put back together again. In priciple I know how it works and can see it operating. The basic priciples are simple to understand and the level of engineering is there to be admired.

In contrast, I cannot understand how a quartz crystal provides the timekeeping part of a watch, the movement looks like the inside of any electronic equipment and even the best movements look utilitarian. The battery is the only legible bit. The rest of it just 'stuff'.

Frankly, a top-end mechanical movement watch attracts in exactly same way as a classic Ferrari - who wouldn't want to lift the bonnet and admire the engine? Driving it isn't the only attraction. To a watch emtusiast and confirmed 'petrolhead' (there must be a major crossover between the two groups) a quartz watch has the same appeal as an electric milk float.


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## vamos666 (May 20, 2009)

I have to say there is something special about the first time you see/use an auto, especially to the uninitiated, it seems amazing that a wristwatch can power itself! Although after the initial buzz wears off, there becomes so much more to admire about a watch than just it's movement. Personally i love autos but still have just as many Quartz in my 'collection'. If this Forum has taught me anything, it's that any watch can be beautiful and desirable to the right person and dismissing a watch because of a prejudice you may have, will only limit your enjoyment of this hobby.

So be it Quartz, Manual, Auto, Kinetic, Tuning Fork, Sundial or egg-timer..i say...

Bring on the watches!



ETA: I'm not a Monty Python fan but: " Every watch is sacred, every watch is great, if a watch is wasted, God gets quite irate.."


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Sadly for me the X33 didnt tick the boxes Id hoped and I prefer my B1... I know I know... Im Omega thru n thru but I have two B'lings, the B1 and a BE... LOL

(...to be honest Ive not worn these for ages, I expect the BE now needs a service, grr...)


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## tomshep (Oct 2, 2008)

Try mending a quartz. Most of the better mechanical watches will, if looked after, last a lifetime. Good watches are inherited and can be repaired, becoming heirlooms.

Most quartz watches are not likely to be repairable in twenty years' time, let alone fifty.


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

tomshep said:


> Try mending a quartz. Most of the better mechanical watches will, if looked after, last a lifetime. Good watches are inherited and can be repaired, becoming heirlooms.
> 
> Most quartz watches are not likely to be repairable in twenty years' time, let alone fifty.


Depends what you mean by repair. Some ETA quartz movements have spares available. The movement used by Tissot in the Jewels of nature range (a range I'm familiar with) has a full spares list. And a nice simple to change electronic module. Shame its near bloody impossible to get out of the watch.


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## tomshep (Oct 2, 2008)

Which is why I said most, having just changed one out. They are still rubbish, though. No solidity to the parts and suspect durability. To find a 255411 has available spares does not compensate for the fact that it was worn out completely at ten years old.


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Hmm... yes, 'most'... many of the watches I showed from Omega (and Bonds Rolex) are 70s watches so have often already been handed down. Who knows what the spares situation will be like going forward, but bear in mind that Rolex wont g'tee to service something after 30 years of the calibre ending anyway, mechanical or quartz...


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

JonW said:


> (and Bonds Rolex)


I wish it was but unfortunately just an example filched from the WWW :lol: :lol:

I have always had a fancy for one though and being quartz doesn't put me off in the least


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Nearly 30 years old, beaten, bashed but still going strong unk:

*Omega Seamaster Calypso-1, cal.1337 17 jewels , circa early 80s*










On the other hand, I recently found out the lower battery contact on this has broken & have been informed that it may not be possible to repair 

*Omega Seamaster cal.1315 circa late 1970s.*


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## Sparky (Nov 2, 2005)

Nothing wrong with Quartz:














































Mark


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## sheepsteeth (Dec 14, 2009)

mach: that calypso is fantastic looking and dare i say it, even better for showing a few years of wear to it.

sparky: that heuer is very nice too.


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Mac sorry to hear about the broken contact on the 1315, surely one could be made? its only a bit of bent brass/steel isnt it? Has SHwk had a look? he may even have a movt in bits with a spare? Worth placing a WTB here and on TZUK as i know a guy bought some movts and some were non runners a while back. Else if that fails email me and I'll sort you out a contact name in the UK of someone who may well have one on a shelf but its not so easy to liberate it as hes a shop LOL


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## Agent orange (Feb 11, 2006)

I love quartz, especially the earlier models when they were really trying (and succeeding) to make them a quality item.

Not too keen modern quartz watches though if I'm honest.














































Well you get the general idea, I won't bore you with the rest







.

Cheers,

Gary


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## chime101 (May 12, 2009)

Love mine ....


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## Clum (Feb 14, 2009)

I like all my quartz watches, but this the most:


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## funtimefrankie (Sep 8, 2009)

Like most people it's not that I don't like quartz watches I just find them sterile and lacking soul. Given the choice of arriving on time like a German in a bullit proof BMW I want to get there a little late like an Italian in an Alfa drinking a cup of espresso...... May be late, but boy do I look good...... And for me that's why I don't like quartz as much.

Frank


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## jaslfc5 (Jan 2, 2007)

i have a good mixture of mechanicals ,auto's and quartz and clearly im not as fussy as most on here because my main criteria is firstly liking the watch,if i like it i dont care if its powered by a tiny nuclear reactor its going on my wrist.

favorite quartz.


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

JonW said:


> Mac sorry to hear about the broken contact on the 1315, surely one could be made? its only a bit of bent brass/steel isnt it? Has SHwk had a look? he may even have a movt in bits with a spare? Worth placing a WTB here and on TZUK as i know a guy bought some movts and some were non runners a while back. Else if that fails email me and I'll sort you out a contact name in the UK of someone who may well have one on a shelf but its not so easy to liberate it as hes a shop LOL


On it`s way to the South coast as we speak :yes:


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Cool, pleased to hear it, Im 99% sure this will be the same as a 1310, its the same base cal of course...


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## AndrewT (Dec 29, 2009)

stolid said:


> The second hand flaps around
> 
> Resale isn't as strong
> 
> ...


The second hand I can live with - but some prefer multiple ticks per second, rather than one.

However when autos stop they *definitely* get put in the back of a drawer somewhere. You need a great deal more than a new battery to get it going again.

As for plastic Swatches and quartz movements:



















Always depends on your frame of reference .


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

JonW said:


> Cool, pleased to hear it, Im 99% sure this will be the same as a 1310, its the same base cal of course...


Paul`s optimistic about getting it sorted so fingers crossed it should be up & running again soon


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## JohnFraininthe93rd (Jul 4, 2006)

BondandBigM said:


>


Definately nothing wrong with that Quartz! :wub:


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

JohnFraininthe93rd said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


Well, I`m sorry but there is









It should be on my wrist


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

Whilst I totally agree that the love of a mechanical movement over a quartz one has probably little to do with common sense, I do wonder about the ultimate longevity of even the highest quality electronic movement?

Yes, there are still (some) examples from the 70's running perfectly well, but what about in a century's time? Will the core electronics still exist, will the batteries? Can one actually "repair" a quartz movement, or just the physical connections to the mechanical parts?

Over one hundred years old, nothing special, just a basic watch of it's era:



















Yet the skill still exists today, over the generations, to keep it going with perfectly adequate accuracy!

However, this is what I'm wearing today 










As I said, preference has little to do with common sense...!


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## johnbaz (Jan 30, 2005)

Hmmm

I think quartz is akin to a mistress, a bit of fun but i always return to the 710 (mechanical) at the end of the day :yes:

Some of my 'mistresses' :grin:























































I have hundreds of quartz watches and used to replace batteries as soon as they stopped but i got fed up of buying batteries in bulk 

John


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## bobbymonks (Jan 13, 2009)

funtimefrankie said:


> Like most people it's not that I don't like quartz watches I just find them sterile and lacking soul. Given the choice of arriving on time like a German in a bullit proof BMW I want to get there a little late like an Italian in an Alfa drinking a cup of espresso...... May be late, but boy do I look good...... And for me that's why I don't like quartz as much.
> 
> Frank


I like that analogy.

Quartz doesn't do it for me either. But rather than the German, or the italian, if you are truly important (like me :lol it doesn't matter how late you are as everyone will wait for you.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Interesting post made on SCWF earlier today.

The thread is entitled: *Tokunaga on Quartz*

.... and is mostly a copy and paste of an earlier post made by Ikuo Tokunaga

(a retired Seiko design engineer) back in November 2002, and originally titled:

*Explanation about the merits of mechanical watches and quartz watches. (long)*

It's very eloquently written, well worth a read, and includes this small graphic towards the bottom:










Just one slight omission, Tokunaga-San .... You missed a dot off the bottom row ! :notworthy:


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## BlueKnight (Oct 29, 2009)

Problem solved...............


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## luddite (Dec 11, 2009)

sheepsteeth said:


> itsguy said:
> 
> 
> > So in other words, quartz lacks a certain poetry. *Or else is insufficiently pretentious.*
> ...


Precisely. 

I have one or two expensive Swiss mechanical watches but for serious timekeeping I use this-


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