# Omega Seamaster Chronograph Or Flightmaster?



## TimC (Jan 28, 2012)

Hi

A couple of watches have recently caught my eye on the internet.

- Omega Seamaster (early 1970's) Chronograph calibre 861

- Omega Flightmaster â€œFirst Generationâ€ calibre 910

Firstly, Can anyone help me understand the technical pros and cons of their movements, jewelling, escarpments, springs, cases etc.

Secondly, does anyone have experience using one of these watches - are they suitable for everyday use?

Finally, do you have any words of advice for someone considering buying one of these watches; things to look out for, classic problems, are there fakes around and how to spot them?

Best wishes

Tim


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## kevkojak (May 14, 2009)

The Seamaster 861 is the watch commonly known as the Jedi. Movement is the same mechanical hand-wound movement found in the Speedmaster.

The flightmaster 910 is another mechanical movement, slightly more accurate as this was designed as a pilots watch, but as a vintage piece it will usually have lost any timekeeping ratings (chronometer or otherwise) over the years. Better features than the Seamaster as this has the 24 hour indicator bezel and a separate GMT dial.

Both very collectable watches, both fashionable in an iconic/retro way and both completely suitable for day-to-day wear now.

The timekeeping may be out, but will still be highly accurate - certainly within a minute a day if serviced.

I wouldn't trust the water resistancy either personally - the Flightmaster was rated 60m and the Seamaster 100m (I think, please correct if out), but seals will have perished and it's hard to re waterproof a watch of this age, seals and gaskets have to be exact.

Both of these watches have 17 Jewel movements, so very accurate (higher number of jewels means less friction within the movement). 17 is 'fully jewelled', meaning that there is a smooth jewel (usually a ruby or a sapphire) on every important bearing.

Either one of these would be a great addition and absolutely fine to wear regularly. Just don't swim in them!


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## aroma (Dec 11, 2009)

If you have the opportunity of getting a Flightmaster then grab it. They are very sought after and quite rare nowadays - the cal 910 particularly. I have one and they're really quite unique and attention grabbing. Here's mine on leather for a change:-










Cheers


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## TimC (Jan 28, 2012)

kevkojak - thank you for your advice, thoughts and comments which are very encoraging and welcome. I think that i will go to Somlo in london to see if they have any nice examples in stock.


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## TimC (Jan 28, 2012)

aroma - what a lovely example; your watch looks fantastic. How well does it keep time? If you were seeking out one today are there any issues worth looking out for? At a practical level - how do they fit around shirt cuffs?

Best wishes

Tim


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## TimC (Jan 28, 2012)

I just saw the first generation flight master in burlington arcade for about Â£7200.

is this a mid or high end price?

Thoughts welcome


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## kevkojak (May 14, 2009)

Neither!!!

Please don't buy a watch from the Burlington arcade - they are priced for city bankers who don't know any better. 

Great place to browse, but just treat it as though you're in an art gallery eh?

You should get change out of Â£2500 for a really good condition Flightmaster. Or you can pick up a beater (after hunting a bit...) for Â£1000-Â£1500 and get it restored yourself via a company like STS. Full overhaul with bells and whistles will cost anything up to Â£600.


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## aroma (Dec 11, 2009)

Well, Burlington Arcade will be hugely expensive - Â£7200 wow!! But I'm sure it will sell. If you were to buy privately then you should expect to pay around Â£2k to Â£2.5k for a good one. Dealers will be a bit more and I'd think around Â£2750+ would be their mark. As said above, you could get one in need of TLC and have it restored but be careful to retain as much of the original (dial/handset etc.) as possible. They're big watches and won't wear well under cuffs and the case surfaces tend to mark so you'd have to treat it with respect.

Mine is one of the very earliest cal 910 first generation - you can tell it is early by the fact that there are no 'dots' on the dial either side of the 12 marker and also by the red pushers. The very early ones had yellow pushers for a yellow chronograph hand and red pushers for a red chronograph hand - the yellow handed version was an extra - cadmium coated I believe to show up under UV light.

As I said, they are very sought after and quite uncommon now so have patience when looking.

Cheers

Andrew


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## TimC (Jan 28, 2012)

Thank guys. That is a very much needed reality check.

Best wishes

Tim


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## TimC (Jan 28, 2012)

Is the company linked below the STS refered to above?

http://www.swisstimeservices.com/about.html


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## kevkojak (May 14, 2009)

Yes Tim, that's them.

STS are the best around for Omega restorations in a lot of peoples book.

They aren't cheap, but they have access to a lot of NOS and service parts.

The beauty of using them over Omega service centre in Bienne is that STS will keep a watch as original as you wish. Services range from a light refurb keeping original case lines and dial 'Wabi', to a full restoration where it comes out looking like brand new (often with refinished or replaced parts. Looking like new is most vintage watch collectors worst nightmare  ).

If you can pick up a good looking watch as a none-runner however, there are cheaper options. A standard service from someone like Roy (host of RLT) won't leave you breathless, like the STS bill can.


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## TimC (Jan 28, 2012)

This is very helpful stuff.

I have started to get a feel for the Flightmaster 

Does anyone a have any strong views / experience of the about the Omega Seamaster (early 1970's) Chronographs?

(apart from not going for a swimming with one on)

Best wishes

Tim


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Seamaster-wise, you can't go too far wrong with any of the cal.861 based models.

The other option from the early 70's is the cal.1040. It is a 22 jewel automatic and was used in a few Seamaster variants. Some of them don't seem to be quite as costly.

This is my goldplated version:



















Later,

William


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## aroma (Dec 11, 2009)

Tim, If you're interested (and I don't know if I should be doing this so Mods, if this is not acceptable then please delete) there is a basket case ripe for restoration here

http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=209194

Cheers


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## kevkojak (May 14, 2009)

I saw that one too. Â£1200 seemed like a dream come true until I saw the dial. Is that restorable or does it need as much as it looks like it needs?


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## TimC (Jan 28, 2012)

Sorry, i dont have access to the part of the web site linked above


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## aroma (Dec 11, 2009)

Does anyone know whether they still have replacement dials and handsets for a Flighty? The rest of the watch shown could be spruced up.

Cheers


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## JudgeBaxter (Sep 18, 2009)

Give STS a call directly, or drop the service dept. at Bienne an e-mail or call - both should respond promptly. I'm fairly certain that you will be fine for replacement dials and handsets on the Flightmasters - if either Bienne or STS can confirm that they have them available still, you can take it as a given that the other will have it available as well as they interact a lot on parts from what I understand.

However - any replacement dial will NOT be an original old stock dial with Tritium lume - it will be a newly manufactured one with Superluminova lume - and will simply say 'swiss made' or 'swiss', rather than 'T swiss T' - this isn't a major issue if your going for a full resto on everything i.e. new dial and hands to match, but mixing and matching old hands with new dial or vice-versa can sometimes have an odd look and it's arguably the least favourite route/option from a re-sale point of view for other collectors.

It's all down to personal choice though and what you think you will be happy with, but generally people either tidy up/restore the original dials and handsets (which can be done very well by the right specialists depending on what sort of wear/damage the dials have sustained), or go for the full monty new for old swap and put new everything onto the watch.....

A mint original example with all it's original dial and hands will command stronger money than one refurbed with new parts.....but there isn't a huge difference in price and it's all about the quality of where the work was done and the parts used.

Interestingly, Â£1200/Â£1500 should get you a mint/excellent example of a cal. 1040 Seamaster Chrono with no resto work needed - the Flighty's are lovely and the complications are great to look at, but will you ever likely use them at all and do you like the look of the flighty enough to spend approx double what it will take to get a similarly mint example of a cal. 1040 Seamaster chrono......

just to confuse things...have you looked at Mk.III Speedmasters? They have the case that is similar to a Flightmaster, but run the cal. 1040 - price's are roughly in the middle for a minter - circa Â£1800/Â£2K.....sheds for resto can be found for Â£700/800 on occasion......

Good luck in the search.

Rgds,

david.


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## aroma (Dec 11, 2009)

Hi again Tim,

I've just tried to send you a private message but the system will not allow it for you. I have contacted the seller of the Flighty and he has sent me his email address. if you'd like that address and wish to pursue this further then contact me. If I were you, I'd at least get some photos from the seller and forward them to STS for a quote. But of course, it's up to you what you do. BTW I have no vested interested in this other than seeing you get something you're looking for and the seller is unknown to me. Let me know as soon as you can re the email address.

Cheers


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## kevkojak (May 14, 2009)

Otto Frei have replacement dials and hand sets for both the 910 and 911 variants, but I'd have real reservations about changing the watch so drastically after the struggle I've had selling my Rolex Explorer. Re-dials are just not desirable watches to collectors.

Anyway, the dial is $192 and a hand set (bought separately) is around another $100.


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## TimC (Jan 28, 2012)

I have not quite past the 50 post requirment, which will allow me to use the PM systems. I dont want to be accused of speed posting. t.


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## TimC (Jan 28, 2012)

I am not quite sure if this is allowed and so please delete if not, however i have just set up a temp account: flightmaster901 at gmail.com

I was in dialogue with STS about a seamaster and as such it would be good to have a look at the photos and get a quote / recommendation.

I have thought about the speedmaster, however a collegue recently brought one. He loves it and it looks fab. I thought it would be fun to try and find a watch that was differnt to the other watches in the office.


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## TimC (Jan 28, 2012)

I have just sent the photos off to STS for their opinion. Lets see what their recommendation is for this particular watch. Best wishes. TIm


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## aroma (Dec 11, 2009)

Hi Tim,

Please do keep us all posted on this - I'm sure we'd all love to know if you go for a restoration. If you do then keep a set of 'before' photos.

Cheers


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## Anthony A (Nov 7, 2008)

I'm quite a Flightmaster fan as you can see. If you need any help or guidance drop me a PM.

I have restored to FM one with Bienne,one locally and the other is untouched. There a great watch but as Judge baxter mentioned

the MK3 is also a great piece


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## stdenev (Feb 8, 2012)

I would take the Flightmaster. It's really beautiful and rare watch.

I wish you success


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