# Fanning the Rolex flames



## USMike (Mar 16, 2003)

Hello all -



> One criticism I could make of Oris is that they are perhaps not very discriminating as to who sells their watches. They are doing themselves harm long term by spreading themselves aq bit thin and allowing the watches to be sold in places that have no clue about watches or no interst in after-sales follow-up


This also applies to Rolex. I was living in Richmond, Virginia a few years ago and bought 2 Rolex watches from a jeweler there. They carried Breitling, AP, Zenith and others as well as Rolex and were 1 of 3 authorized Rolex dealers in Richmond. The other 2 Rolex authorized dealers in town discounted them by 5%. My jeweler lost their franchise because they were discounting Rolex by 10%. Rolex came in one day, cleared out their stock, wrote them a check and left. As I recall the figures, they had been selling almost a million dollars of Rolex annually.

A week later, a mall jeweler (sells low line jewelery, Pulsar, Movado, Tissot etc.) started carrying Rolex in all their mall stores. Talk about clowns trying to sell something they knew nothing about for a commission!!! I went to their largest store to inquire about buying an Explorer and they didn't have any idea what I was talking about until I pointed it out in their catalog. Not knowing the line and always looking for a commission almost guarantees no after-sale support. Apparently the Rolex folks from New York City felt it was better for their watches to be sold in low class stores and with little after-sale support than being discounted by 10%.

Nope, never bought the Explorer. Bought a Breitling Crosswind Special from the defrocked jeweler instead.

USMike


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## peter (Feb 23, 2003)

Mike, I agree with you.

Rolex has built a reputation upon fraud. They are purported to be the best watch in the world when in FACT, contrary to the impressions of certain dimwits, are no better than any other piece. With their inflated price and market fixing the pretence is that to buy one of their pieces, is join an exlusive club

Judging buy the "celebrities" that are used to advertise for the company, I would have thought that anyone who actually buys a Rolex is without certain mental aptitude!

Peter.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Well, ever since I saw the "Omega Man" with Charleton Heston, I wanted an Omega watch. Now I've got two. Heston by the way, is a BIG believer in guns, and I understand he thinks schooteachers should carry a belt pistol to protect themselves from these mad shooters who go on the rampage at schools etc. Just a touch more than I would advocate!!!


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## DavidH (Feb 24, 2003)

Many Poeple have this thing that they want to buy the best, Me included.

You want to see my toolbox. Triple chrome plate reflecting a certain trade mark on every piece









They think rolleys are the best and go buy.

Others are buying the image. Would you? All the sales guff doesn't tickle me at all. When I buy something I want quality first, then value.

No doubt they are very good but so are Omega









and Seiko









I don't think I will be after one. Rather have a month off work. No. two months.

unless it was a bargin!

David


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Can't say I would buy one either but ask yourself this. How much dosh have we all thrown down the drain in our lifetime.

Me. THOUSANDS!!!

I've spent loads over the years on bikes, cars. Doing them up has cost me a fortune and thats not even starting to take into account what I've lost in depreciation when I've sold em on.

I really do not have the courage to sit down and tally up what I've spent and I'm guessing that some of you can relate to that. So who am I to decry the man who spends Â£4000 on a Rolex Sub. He'll probably have that the rest of his life.

What have I got to show for all the money I've blown over the years.

F**k all.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Thats a good point Andy.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Is it!!?

You could say you've nothing to show for going on a holiday!

But you have............you have the memories, the experience, the learning, the knowledge of the experience, improved judgement, and a sense of satisfaction/fulfillment.

I've nothing to show for a lot I've done, but it's contributed to my character as I am now, and I would do most of it over again(but maybe with a few omissions!!







)


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Griff. I'm not talking about holidays or other such constructive ways of spending money.

I need to set aside a couple of grand at least everytime I go to Japan and it's always money well spent.

I'm talking about the frivalous waisting og large amounts of dosh which we are probably all guilty of.

I'm sure nearly all of us can look back at least one point in our lives where we remember, "Jeez, the money I lost on that".

I'm attepting to get Â£3000 for my MR2 (Book price)

I paid Â£9000 for it.

Losing Â£6000 and for what. A few moments of exitement but NOTHING lasting. Absolutely NOTHING to show for that lost six grand. You could argue that I had 4 or so years of transportation out of it but for the kind of journeys I do I could have had everything I needed in a car for a fraction of the cost.

Sense of "satisfaction/fulfillment"......... Er No









I would feel very hypocritical in condemming Rolex man for spending a fraction of what I've WAISTED over the years on an item he will probably enjoy the rest of his life.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

But you've learnt by it. You've probably aquired skills working on the car. You must have enjoyed doing what you did with it at the time.

I'd consider spending Â£4000 on a Rolex to be a hideous waste of money.

What you've done with your car(s) was what you wanted to do at the time, and that seems positive, or you wouldn't have done it.

It's all part of life Andy, surely never a waste of time or money!?


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## Foggy (Feb 25, 2003)

Hi guys

May I join in ?? (sorry to pick on your quotes, Griff, but they help me lead on to what I have to say)



> You must have enjoyed doing what you did with it at the time.


and



> What you've done with your car(s) was what you wanted to do at the time, and that seems positive, or you wouldn't have done it


Isn't that exactly what the guy with the 4 grand Rolex feels ?? Does he not get a feel good feeling wearing it, which in a way justifies his expense, for HIM ?? I see no difference between the expensive watch or the expensive car analogies. None of us NEEDS an expensive car or watch - a Â£10 digital will do the job, as will a Ford Fiesta. We choose to go for something that we feel is that little more exotic because it's nice to be able to treat oneself occasionally in life. We don't do it for anyone else, we do it for ourselves as individulas, all with differing tastes and perceptions. Disclaimer - if somebody buys a Rolex to try and impress others, then they do have problems, and a watch aint gonna solve those issues, that's for sure









FWIW, I wouldn't spend 4 grand on a Rolex or ANY watch for that matter. Why ? Becasue I can't afford to !! What I do know is that I could sell any of my Rolex watches for at least what I paid for them (I purchased them second-hand), should the need ever arise. The knowledge of this made me more comfrtable in shelling out for a watch that I knew I didn't NEED, but certainly did WANT. That is not true for many other of the watches I own - if I sell 'em, I lose money.

Cheers

Foggy


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Griff said:


> What you've done with your car(s) was what you wanted to do at the time, and that seems positive, or you wouldn't have done it.
> 
> It's all part of life Andy, surely never a waste of time or money!?


 Nope sorry.

If I could turn the clock back I'd have made do with a Fiat Panda.

My MR2 was an incredible waist of money.

I did'nt mention that since owning it I'ts cost me 2 grand in insurance.

I have enjoyed owning the car sure but now I'm paying the price and it wasn't worth it.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

What I'm saying Foggy, is that I think a 4 grand watch is a hideous waste of money. Andy thinks what he's done has been a waste of money, and I'm not so sure, so it comes down to your point of view. Andy's of the view that what he's done is a waste, and I'm saying a 4 grand Rolex is a waste. Lets just say that one is no better, or worse, than the other. I was merely trying to suggest that most car enthusiasts will spend thousands on cars and never get back what they've paid out; but would a restorer or custom converter accept they'd wasted all their money!? I think not!


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

By the same token.

Would Rolex man consider his watch a waist of money.

I think not.

We all have different priorities in life. Lets just live and let live.


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

I once was a man with a 4 grand Rolex. Also had a 3g one. Yes, it is gut wrenching to look back on the money loss side, but I can honestly say I've owned those watches. As I said to someone before: I don't know where these are now, but my name is on the papers. Gives me some comfort. You lose money on everything you buy


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

I'm having trouble with this. Who's saying anything against live and let live.

I said that one scenario was no worse than the other.

I'm honestly of the view that 4 grand for ANY Rolex is silly money. I'm also of the view that a solid gold case looks vulgar(for me), and the material is too soft for a watch case. I only like stainless. This business of parts and special tools necessary for a Rolex was highlighted by Roy, and I think it stinks.

Some of the older Rolex's look ok, but I think the modern ones have boring cases, and are hideously overpriced. I don't like the modern Constellations either, I think they dropped a clanger with that design, so I don't like all new Omegas by any stretch, but I wont accept that 4 grand on a modern Rolex is a sensible expenditure, when I could get a much better watch in an IWC for less money. So there!!


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

I agree Grif...sob....but I was young & stupid at the time. Oh if I could turn back the clock........

Paul


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## peter (Feb 23, 2003)

I think we have all done/ bought things we enjoy at the time and then maybe regret afterwards when we actually regard the cost. But hey! We're all human.

Enjoyment can be fleeting or it can last years but truthfully, it's better not to look back.That can SERIOUSLY damage your health.

I feel it's best to forget, just move on. All of us here have indulged our passions, got carried away, maybe threw reason and rationale out the window and obtained something on impulse. But is that not the best way, sometimes, only sometimes?

It's what makes us what we are. It would be such a depressingingly mundane life without impulse.

Peter


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## Guest (May 16, 2003)

Where does this Â£4000 price tag come from ?

A new non date Submariner is just under Â£2000 in my local store

They will give you three years interest free credit and later if you want to sell it on you are very likely to get all your money back.

I would always be likely to buy second hand, I have always done this in the past and have always made a profit on what I paid out.

When I look at my watch collection now I have the satisfaction of knowing it has cost me very little in real terms.

BTW there has been much talk about IWC as compared to Rolex.

If you think Rolex are dear have a look at IWC's prices.









Rolex make all their own movements, IWC only make some of their own, the rest are bought in like Omega.

Cheers,

Neil.


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

Yes Neil. Can't tell without thumbing through loads of magazines, but IWC & Jeager are owned by the same group. Either Richmond or Vendholme. One of those 2 own Omega now as well. So there's bound to be part swapping etc.

As I admit, I was silly when I started in this game. My first 4 or so where brand new. Once you learn the second hand game, don't look back...except in odd special circumstances.

My view on the 4K watch issue refers to when I bought a Bi met Daytona. I paid cash & got a good discount.


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Griff said:


> I wont accept that 4 grand on a modern Rolex is a sensible expenditure, when I could get a much better watch in an IWC for less money. So there!!


 Griff no one is asking you to accept or buy a Rolex.

I'm not going to buy one either.

This is the sort of argument we used to have in the bad old days of this forum.

I really thought we had moved on from this slagging off of other people's interests.

I was as guilty as anyone of this but as a result of attending this forum on a regular basis I have become much more open minded and interested in other peoples watch interests.

I consider Neil and Foggy to be very expert watch men who both own and have an immense interest in Rolex. "Ignorant dim wits" ? I think not.

Having an opinion is fine but this malicious, gunning for a particular brand and the folks who buy them is something I thought we had all moved on from. What is it about Rolex that gets the blood boiling so much.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

s***.............here we go again.

What the hell are you talking about. No one's gunning for anything, or slagging off anyone.

Can't you accept views without taking it personal. It's like the bad old days alright!!! Only you takes it this way it seems!!

Let's keep cool on this. I don't want another fall out, but I'm NOT gunning for anyone or maliciously slagging them off. That's a slur on my integrity, and I think you should take that back!!!


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

My apologies.

My post was not very clear.

I was not referring to Griff when I was talking about members slagging off other members.

I was referring to an earlier post where a member (Not Griff) refers to people who buy Rolex as "dim wits" knowing that we have at least 2 enthusiasts on this forum who are far from that.

I didn't make that clear.

You are a bit harsh on Rolex though Griff.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Thanks

No problem then

I might be a bit strong on views now and then, but I never mean to be malicious to anyone.

I think the special tools and parts issue centred around the Rolex mark probably needled me a bit, but I'm glad we are both big enough to stay level headed, and on good terms.

Good thread on the 5's by the way from both you and Foggy!


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

I nearly said something b4 Griff came back. Rolex r a pain to some(particularly people who have owned & gone off em) So what! We are here for a reason - to xchange views without malice. Had to say that Griff mate. You scare me sometimes with your comments!


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

No need to be scared of me Paul. But I like the honesty of strong views and opinions. I'd like to see a bit more of that in our politicians, whether the views are popular at the time or not.


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## USMike (Mar 16, 2003)

Roy,

What happened to the Rolex you received for re-assembly??

Were you able to figure out what made it break into pieces??

USMike


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

I just put it back together. I never did figure out what caused it.


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## Glennn (Apr 20, 2003)

why would anyone need more than two watches?one for work [cheap n chearful] and a presentable watch for going out,if youve got more than three then youre like some sad bint who collects cuddly toys,hoping the next "hit" will bring you happiness;but you know it wont [try getting out more]


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Glenn, is this post for real ? You are joking right ?


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## Glennn (Apr 20, 2003)

Never been more serious Roy,in fact when i come back from the watch & clock fair at the motorcycle museum tomorrow,i will sit down in a darkened room and clear my mind of any thoughts of watches. This of course will be a simple task as i am not as sad as the rest of you.


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

Watch out cycle museum - the loons r coming to your town.









You're not one of those that wander through city centres shouting '**** biscuits' & the like at random are you?


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Glenn, You have made 70 odd posts on here , you are going to a watch fair.

Why all of a sudden do you think that we are all sad for taking an interest in watches ?

I think that maybe it is you that is sad for trying to obviously start a row on here.


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

I think my watch hobby is a great thing.

I have others as well.

Bikes especially.

Collecting articles of one sort or another is very popular.

So it is for you Glenn and don't deny it.

Why else are you hanging around here posting threads.


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## Glennn (Apr 20, 2003)

Dont get me started on people who like motorbikes.


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## MIKE (Feb 23, 2003)

WATCH FAIR IN MOTORCYCLE MUSEUM = HEAVEN









p.s and I'm not sad either


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Who's this dick head that thinks we're sad!!!!!


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

'ee's orf 'is 'ed our kid. Eee needs the "Glasgow Kiss"


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## Glennn (Apr 20, 2003)

Not only sad but too stupid to spot a joke,anyway your all probably nice people,if only you didn't collect watches.[and covet motorbikes and guns.]

ps,i do wander around shopping malls spontaneously shouting OMEGA,ROLEX,JAEGER LECOULTRE.

Black Country sense of humor too sofistikated for u lot.


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## Glennn (Apr 20, 2003)

P.s, Griff,that glasgow kiss,is it with or without tongues.


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

One of the last people who called me stupid hasn't been seen since.take the hint

Regardless of what humour you think you're using Glenn, you are going it badly. It don't look like humour. If you don't mean offence fair enough. But you will have to learn to reiterate your words more constructively


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Greetings all...

Am I alone in finding it strange how these Rolex related threads go? I am a relatively new member on RLT but it seems that they always veer away from actual debate on the merits or otherwise of the watches themselves.

I'm not saying I would prefer a sterile debate - strong views are fine by me but I think the personal insults seen from time to time are regrettable.

I like certain Rolexes very much (various Submariners mainly) on grounds of how they look and feel.

But I don't know enough about watches to make judgements on the quality of materials used / best design under the dial., and I was hoping for some insights from this thread.

I wish I knew more about the mechanical side of watches so that I could ask more specific questions.

It seems to me that the best people to judge a watch movement are watchmakers / repairers or enthusiasts who really take an interest in how a watch is built. It would be great to have more movement-related comments on the thread.


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

Simon, the whole thing is turning into a circus. I, like 99.99999999999 percent of you, joined to discuss watches. Sometimes with clashes of opinions. As I admitted the other night, I was ready for having a go at Griff for some things he said. Then he reposted what he meant. Total misunderstanding. If I wanted to start a fight, I could go on a normal chat room. This forum is getting too much of this crap, & it has to stop


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

This is a forum that embraces all kinds of views and side issues. Get used to it !

The forum goes it's own way Paul, not the way any one of us thinks it should go.


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## Glennn (Apr 20, 2003)

i'm not sure your refering to my comments, but under no circumstances have i made any personnal insults,i find these forums can be very sterile, if fellow watch collectors get there knickers in a twist over a bit of banter then thats there problem,if this manifests itself as violent forum outbursts then you trully are sad and missing the joke.

Glennn,watch collector,motorcyclist;wrote off two cbr 600's and black belt 3rd dan ju jutsu.[sense of humour included]


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

**** this i'm off


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Glennn

You declare that you have wriiten off 2 CBR's as though it's something to be proud of.

That would make you a bit of a dip s*** old chap.

You stated that we are missing the Joke.

I don't think we are at all

How can we miss you


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## Sargon (Feb 24, 2003)

Outside of dedicated Rolex forums, speaking of Rolex is a lot like discussing religion or politics at a dinner party. There are simply too many emotional issues. I'm not saying they shouldn't be discussed, but perhaps they cannot be discussed constructively. Just my 2 cents (do you guys say 2 pence?)


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## mat (Feb 25, 2003)

ok ok... this is turning into that american forum, no one meant any insults, so lets get back to rolex....

my boss at work has a rolex oyster date which hes very proud of and happy with. Does anyone know what movement it might have?

All I know about it is that its two tone, with gold dial with diamonds for markers, date, sapphire glass, he says its about 5/6 years old and cost around Â£4,500

looks like this, but with gold bezel and dial:










cheers,

mat


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## Glennn (Apr 20, 2003)

Andy,i havn't insulted anyone yet,shame you have, i unfortunately assumed people who collected watches were of good humour,curteous and friendly,if you wish to discuss watches i'm more than willing [albeit with my limited knowledge] otherwise i may have to collect stamps[no doubt that's someone else i've upset]

Olive branch.[come back CB radio all is forgiven]


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

I've just looked back through Glennns previous posts and it seems to me that he's an enthusiast just like us, maybe the comments were a joke / wind up and members took it the wrong way - enlighten me please Glennn.

G.


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## Glennn (Apr 20, 2003)

Spot on,at least all is not lost.


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## Glennn (Apr 20, 2003)

By the way Glennn only has 2 n's.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

Good stuff!!!!!!!!

Lets just forget it.

G.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

..............I'm a tad pissed at the moment!

G.


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## Glennn (Apr 20, 2003)

I'm even getting threatening e mail's.

No wonder the worlds full of suicide bombers.

Stone cold sober myself,perhaps i need a drink,off to bed now,got a long day at the watch & clock fair tomorrow.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

Have a beer and chill out - just like me.........









G.


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## USMike (Mar 16, 2003)

guess I'll stop posting for a while. Don't want to see another episode like this.

USMike


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

USMIKE,

Don't worry mate, just keep posting as normal.......... 

G.


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## MIKE (Feb 23, 2003)

U.S Mike,

As above, ignor the crap







and read and post the good stuff









U.K. Mike


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## peter (Feb 23, 2003)

All this arguement, isn't it great? I'm with Griff on this. Too much crap talked by so may nowadays, skirting round the issues. Better to be up front and blunt. What can you hurt? Pride? So what? You're all grown up and can take it. Surely we don't want to nannied all the time?

We can be in conflict but no one physically gets hurt. As for pride, I'm of an age now that quite frankly I don't care. It's only pride.

Peter


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## Glennn (Apr 20, 2003)

Hi there fellow sad b.. oops better not,just come back from the watch and clock fair at motor cycle museum[first time]like a kid in a sweet shop ,almost bought a longines[accutron power]but luckily noticed the second hand momentarily stop and saved myself some grief.

Bought a cushion shaped 1930s waltham looks like new i'm dead chuffed,how about one of you computer wizz people telling us useless ***** how to post a pic.

No more death threats please i'm up to my eyes in em.


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## endure (Apr 27, 2003)

How often is the watch & clock fair held at the motorcycle museum? Once a year or more often?


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

Right Glenn, you know we made our peace this morning. But....

I spoke to my dad last night. He's a Liverpudllian. One of his mates is in the Liverpool Maffia.

He clocked one of your posts the other night - he collects watches(my dad's mate)

You upset him.

I did not say I knew of you. My dad only told me as he knows my interest. I don't know which point pissed him off. like I said, different people take things their own way.

Just watch how you put things mate.........


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

..................Only joking.

Knowing you I doubt you'd believe me anyway


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