# What's your thoughts on this one?



## Eski (Feb 26, 2019)

Hi everyone

I'm brand new to this forum, and as much as anything posting this thread as a way to say hello on the Japanese section, of which I am naturally drawn to on account of the majority of my collection being Seiko, Citizen and Casio.

I've got far more 'tool' type watches in my collection, and all are modest in terms of value/cost to purchase.

However, this one (Citizen AQ4030-51e) has got my attention!

I've never paid anywhere near what this one costs (ie over 2k GBP) but, there's always a first time!

I'd value the thoughts of this page on the style, competing watches, value etc.

I believe this one is a 'HAQ', btw.

Thanks in advance for your perspectives
















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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

My first impressions are that it doesn't look like £2000 worth of watch. I'm sure it's great, and decent quality etc, but the Citizen badge alone makes me think it would be £200 - £300 max. Two grand gets you into a different league IMHO. That's not to say it isn't "worth it", only the buyer can decide that, but I wouldn't be even considering that one - Sorry mate! 

I should add, my own self imposed upper limit is only around £200-ish, so this is clearly above my pay grade, and therefore my opinion can be taken with a pinch of salt :tongue:


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## Boots (Sep 22, 2018)

Hi @Eski, welcome to the forum!

There are plenty of fans of Japanese watches here, so you are in good company.

I have to agree with @Davey P that £2k does look a lot of money for that watch. Sure it looks good, but there is a lot of competition at that price point. For a HAQ at £2k they would be up against Grand Seiko for one. The best tip (one which I have studiously failed to follow so far myself) is to go and see and handle the watches in person before buying.

Good luck!


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

Boots said:


> I have to agree with @Davey P that £2k does look a lot of money for that watch.


 Blimey, someone agreed with me :swoon:

:laughing2dw:


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## Eski (Feb 26, 2019)

Hi Davey/ Boots

Firstly thanks for the replies. I'm really pleased to have found this forum (thanks to a tip from a friend). My last experience of a watch forum wasn't as positive due to a number of 'cliquey' members who seemed intent on being unpleasant.

I think I need to check my settings as I didn't get a message that you guys had replied.

Funnily enough I agree with you both re this watch. Why is it 2k? I can't really justify the price tag either. It's lovely aesthetically, but hard to see why it's so expensive.

As an example, here's one I own (BM7081-51e). As with the 2k Citizen, it's titanium, sapphire crystal, eco drive, and although not officially 'HAQ', runs at an insanely accurate +12 (ish) annually (I've owned it since Feb 2014).

The finishing, bracelet, clasp on the 2k one is undoubtedly better, but worth 20 times the price? Probably not.

And btw Davey, it's above my pay grade too!






























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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

Eski said:


> Firstly thanks for the replies. I'm really pleased to have found this forum (thanks to a tip from a friend). *My last experience of a watch forum wasn't as positive due to a number of 'cliquey' members who seemed intent on being unpleasant.*
> 
> I think I need to check my settings as I didn't get a message that you guys had replied.


 You won't find that problem on here mate, the members are generally easy going and very helpful.

With regards to your settings, you should find that a notification pops up whenever somebody mentions your name with a "@" in front, so if they write @Eski it generates a notification with a link to the comment. That is my little tip for the day, and you are welcome :teethsmile:


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## Eski (Feb 26, 2019)

Cheers for the tip!









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Cheers for the tip!









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Cheers for the tip!









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Cheers for the tip!

Re my previous experience, I already get a completely different feeling here.

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Although it seems my Tapatalk or Internet connection is going a bit mental, resulting in multiple duplicate messages!

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## relaxer7 (Feb 18, 2016)

At £2k plus for a Japanese watch the only choice for me would be a pre-owned Grand Seiko of some description or even a Credor Node…


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

To put it into some sort of context, for 2 grand I recently bought this:



Admittedly, it's a bit big to fit on the wrist, but I know what I would rather buy, and it wouldn't be the Citizen :laughing2dw:


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## kevkojak (May 14, 2009)

It doesn't look like £2k of watch, but it's like the supercharged VW Golf that's actually a Ferrari-eater, it lays other high end watches to waste!

The one pictured is the A060 calibre, a new and improved version of the A010 which was the record holder for most accurate quartz movement at under +/- 5 seconds a year.

The movement is about the best HAQ on the market (Seiko might disagree...), tuned to absolute perfection and thermo-compensated, adjusting/correcting itself to combat changes in temperature.
So many millions of dollars (or trillions of Yen, probably) went into the development of such an accurate timepiece that it pretty much has to command that price - it is their flagship watch development and easily a rival to the Grand Seiko offerings, on release it was the envy of every watchmaker in the world, knocking even the Longines VHP off the top spot.

The last serious development like this was the MegaQuartz watches in the early 1970's. Google "Beta 21" for all the info, but again it was phenomenally expensive to develop and as a result the early versions of these were similarly overpriced. Look at what the F300 Omega cost in 1973 (about as much as a Speedmaster).

Just a side-note, HAQ watches don't all cost the earth, it's well worth keeping an eye on Bulova. They were acquired by Citizen about ten years ago and a lot of the technology seems to be filtering down to the modern Bulova watches. The re-issue of the Accutron 2 (minus the tuning fork) is entirely down to Citizen and their ability to offer a highly accurate quartz movement on a budget.



Davey P said:


> To put it into some sort of context, for 2 grand I recently bought this:
> 
> 
> 
> Admittedly, it's a bit big to fit on the wrist, but I know what I would rather buy, and it wouldn't be the Citizen :laughing2dw:


 What made you have two girls cars? Do you have two wives?  (Sorry Davey, I'm only jealous - my wife says I have to have 5 seats in mine, hence the Supra dream was dead in the water)


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## it'salivejim (Jan 19, 2013)

The Citizen Chronomaster is a world away from a Citizen Eco-Drive. The fit and finish will be superlative, perhaps superior even to a Grand Seiko of the same quartz ilk.

You either like the idea of a supremely accurate and carefully crafted HAQ watch for £2k, or you don't.

If you'd happily pay £2k for this










Then you'd be happy with the Chronomaster


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

kevkojak said:


> What made you have two girls cars? Do you have two wives?  (Sorry Davey, I'm only jealous - my wife says I have to have 5 seats in mine, hence the Supra dream was dead in the water)


 Ha ha, nice one, the MR2 was bought to replace Ruthie's Ford Ka later this year - so technically, we have THREE girl's cars between us... Actually, I offered to buy it for her as a wedding present (I've had a good year at work :laughing2dw: ) but she said no - And I bought it anyway! My thinking was we can use it as a weekend car, just for a laugh, and it means we don't have to rush into selling her car. She had one a few years ago and always regretted selling it, so it's nice that she's got another one - When she can prise the keys out of my hand, of course


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## Eski (Feb 26, 2019)

I'm loving the persepctives here chaps. @kevkojak that's a supremely interesting post you made. It actually reinforces the credentials of the wwatch in question. However, I also get the other persepctives with regards what else could be had for similar dosh (minus the car, sorry @Davey P :biggrin:

Without wanting to state the obvious (but I'm going to anyway!), it's a really subjective thing.

Tbh I would love one of these. Everyone values something slightly different in a watch, and for me I've always been very OCD about my watch being, primarily, a good timekeeper. So this one (even more so now I am enlightened by @kevkojak) now speaks to me even more.

However, I am not currently in a position to ping out £2k on a watch whim (sadly). My impulse purchases tend to stay firmly under the £1k mark.

Maybe I should keep this one in mind for when (if, lol) my business hits a certain level, although by that time it may be that I'd prefer a flying car or an Apple teleportation device instead :biggrin:

btw, is it possible to edit posts here?

Another of my OCD tendencies is the need to correct my many typos.


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

Eski said:


> btw, is it possible to edit posts here?
> 
> Another of my OCD tendencies is the need to correct my many typos.


 You can edit your posts, but only for a few mins after they are written. After that, all your typos are permanently on display for the whole world to see...... :tongue:


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

Davey P said:


> You can edit your posts, but only for a few mins after they are written. After that, all your typos are permanently on display for the whole world to see...... :tongue:


 He's a new user so he'll have to stick around a while for the edit permission. He's also got the Tapatalk glovebox to contend with.


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## KAS118 (Mar 2, 2014)

I think it's a nice watch but as others have said I'm not sure it says £2k to me.

At that price point I would go for the errrhhh...less accurate, less reliable and less robust mechanical movement watches.

(Who says watch collecting makes sense )

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## Allthingsmustpass (Nov 21, 2017)

Only if you ABSOLUTELY know that you are going to keep it, otherwise I think you'd take a bath on it if you tried to move it on, a very deep and very cold bath.

But if you're adventurous enough, why not? It would be Grand Seiko or used Aqua Terra for me at that price cos I'm boring artytime:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Eski said:


> However﻿,﻿ this one (Citizen AQ4030-51e) has got my attention﻿!﻿﻿


 Well I like it. As said, you're in Grand Seiko quartz territory price wise, so I would definitely consider one. Wonder what the service interval is compared with the Seiko? That is something to think about. :hmmm9uh:


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

I'd read up on the movement and the detailing before dropping two grand on it. E.g. I think it's Grand Seiko that has a movement detail that reduces the "jitter" of the sweep second hand as it ticks. The video I saw, I think it was called "pre-loading" or something like that. Could you see it with the naked eye? Probably not, but with a loupe you might. And there are so many other fine details and quality points in the GS that justify the price. Does this Citizen match those, or is it just a super-high accurate quartz in a better than average case and dial? If the latter, meh. When I see a watch above the 1500 mark, I think it should be exceptional; above 2000, it should be a work of art.

BTW the first hit on my search, this watch sells for almost US$3000. :jawdrop1: It had better be magnificently detailed for that price IMHO.

After more searching: hmm, no one noted that this has a washi paper dial. :hmmm9uh:

https://forums.watchuseek.com/f905/citizen-chronomaster-aq4030-51a-giant-killer-maybe-goat-4818199.html
https://deployant.com/review-enter-the-dragon-the-citizen-aq-4020-54y-best-quartz-watch-in-the-world/


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## Eski (Feb 26, 2019)

Hi guys

Thanks for all the input.

First off, just to say I'm having problems with notifications from what is now my favourite forum! Ie, I'm not getting any. At all!

It's very frustrating because I want to keep up with the thoughts of you guys in a timely manner. Apologies.

I was away on a business trip all day yesterday, so didn't get a chance for a random visit.

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Lots of thought provoking posts.

KAS: you'll have to guide me on this mechanical thing buddy! Part of me would love to own at least one, but it would have to be pretty accurate and reliable (within mechanical expectations of course) as otherwise I don't think I'd enjoy it, regardless of the aesthetic beauty it might have.

Great point re the resale value, being absolutely sure, and deep cold baths lol. This point resonates. I don't think Citizens, as much as I love them, tend to hold their value too well.

I'm certainly not going to rush into such a purchase, but eventually I think it's nailed on for me to buy a really really nice quartz. I must admit *hangs head in embarrassment in the company of those knowing far more* that I didn't realise Grand Seiko did quartz! I thought they were mechanical only.

GS sound like an offering I need to understand much better.

I must say it worried me that Citizen are using some type of Japanese paper used on the dial as a marketing tool. To me this type of thing smacks of a slightly diversionary tactic as I don't suppose the large majority (including me) care too much about such gimmicks, but would rather the justification for this watch's price lay in its movement, materials and finishing.

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## Eski (Feb 26, 2019)

Lol, I am so easily swayed!!

Just read the link kindly supplied by @Chromejob to a review of the Chronomaster. Okay, so the 'Washi' paper now sounds cool :yes:

One of the aesthetics that really grabs me personally about this watch (and indeed many others) is the crown guards. I just love crown guards that seem to curve up from the case. I'm also pretty happy with guards that sit at a more defined angle from the case btw! I guess for me crown guards of any specification make a watch better than one without. Maybe it's the practical part of my psyche that approves of the protection that prevents an inadvertent knock. Probably.

Anyway, I've swayed back towards this one. However, one thing I'm very conscious of, is that the research and deliberation of purchasing a watch is a big part of my joy of watches generally. So, I look forward to the thoughts, suggestions, recommendations of my esteemed new friends here :notworthy:


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## Eski (Feb 26, 2019)

Due to the many references to the Seiko GS stable, I've had a first look.

I've always liked the Rolex Explorer ii in terms of style. This Seiko is therefore grabbing my attention!

I have a reason to keep a regular eye on another timezone, so the one GMT I already own I find to be very useful.

What do you think guys?
















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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Eski said:


> W﻿hat do﻿ you think ﻿guys? ﻿


 I think I'd consider this.


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

Davey P said:


> To put it into some sort of context, for 2 grand I recently bought this:
> 
> 
> 
> Admittedly, it's a bit big to fit on the wrist, but I know what I would rather buy, and it wouldn't be the Citizen :laughing2dw:


 You should've bought a mk2 rev 3 turbo, that would certainly give you a buzz. :naughty:


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## Eski (Feb 26, 2019)

WRENCH said:


> I think I'd consider this.


Looks lovely. Do you own one?

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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Eski said:


> Looks lovely. Do you own one?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


 No, but I have other Steinharts. The Seiko will undoubtedly be an excellent watch, but like the Steinhart, it falls into the "homage" category. At under £450,and a decent spec, the Steinhart is worth a look.

https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/ocean-vintage-gmt-neu.html


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

Steve D70 said:


> You should've bought a mk2 rev 3 turbo, that would certainly give you a buzz. :naughty:


 I had a Mk2 T-Bar, non-turbo years ago, probably one of the nicest cars I've ever owned. Too difficult to find them with sensible mileage these days though (I sold mine with 135,000 miles on the clock). Also, the Roadster was bought for Ruthie, not me, although I seem to be the one who ends up driving it at the moment...


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