# Car Servicing



## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

My Citroen C1 is in for its 2nd year service.

They'e just phoned me and said the brake fluid should be changed every 2 years, but it will be Â£49 odd as it is not part of the service!!!!!!!!!!

They also said the handbrake could do with adjusting, and will be another Â£45 as this is not part of the service either!!!!!!

Didn't both of these things used to be part of a service???

The brake fluid charge seems wrong to me, and should be part of the service at that time period..........surely!!??

He said there are several things these days that are no longer part of a service

I expressed my disgust on the phone and will tell them what I think when I go to collect it tonight

Seems motorists are being treated like mugs these days from just about everybody :thumbsdown:


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## tixntox (Jul 17, 2009)

If your car is no longer under warranty just go to a local (recommended) garage for a service. Most main agents tie you in to servicing at hugely inflated prices to cover their massive overheads for showrooms etc. Ihave my car serviced at the main agents until the warranty runs out and then use a local garage. My local Fiat dealer had three attempts (all spooty youths!) at fixing a faulty bonnet catch on my wife's Punto. It still wasn't fixed, so I cleaned off all the (unnecessary) grease and looked carefully at the alignment. I slackened the fixing bolts, realigned the catch and it was done in about two minutes.







I had previously left the car for its first service. It sat outside the garage until ten to four in the afternoon and was out again at ten past. Done! Fills you full of confidence doesn't it! I used to service HGV's so I know what's involved and do my own when they are out of warranty. The oil changes can be done by any service station. I don't even get my hands dirty on that front. Â£24 for oil and filter change. The rest I can check myself. Buy a Haynes manual! :to_become_senile:


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Yes, I'm still in warranty for another year but after that I'll find another garage


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Handbrake should be included Griff I would think but brake fluid has been an extra for at least 15 years at most garages, perhaps youve been lucky before with that?


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

the brake fluid should be charged seperate to a service. It needs to be done every two years because it is hydroscopic (attracts water) and this is irrelevent to the miles you may have covered. Some cars will need three or four services in 2 years if they racked up the miles, hence the brake fluid bi annual change is additional to the service (otherwise the high mileage cars would have it changed unneccassarily as used to be the case).

Â£45 is steep to adjust the handbrake though - it should only be a couple of turns to get it right.


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## jeffvader (Jun 10, 2008)

You'll be going back again soon as the car's been recalled http://www.parkers.co.uk/News/News/Citoren-and-Peugeot-recall/


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

jeffvader said:


> You'll be going back again soon as the car's been recalled http://www.parkers.co.uk/News/News/Citoren-and-Peugeot-recall/


Not mine as it doesn't have ESP

Only 36 C1's affected


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I guess it is still under warranty, Griff. These days many warranty services don't cover certain things, I would check your warranty agreement and the service book to see what should be done in a service and what is covered.


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## Philz (Oct 20, 2009)

We have just had the Swift done before Xmas. 3 Months running 3,000 miles but 12 months old as pre reg. Suzuki UK said it had to be done to maintain warranty. The local Suzuki dealer wanted Â£130 so we went to the Toyota dealer and paid Â£90 using Suzuki parts. It pays to shop around.


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

If you want your revenge, and to make the most of your warranty, book the car in for it's MOT for this time next year at the main dealer. Make sure the three year warranty has not expired and have the car MOT'd for pretty much the same price as anywhere else, but if the car needs any parts to pass the MOT they may be under warranty. Then get the car serviced at an independant garage

I used to work in a dealership (MG) and the amount of people that missed the first MOT and then had to pay for parts normally covered was a joke. Goodwill sometimes covers part of the cost but not always.


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

Griff said:


> My Citroen C1 is in for its 2nd year service.
> 
> They'e just phoned me and said the brake fluid should be changed every 2 years, but it will be Â£49 odd as it is not part of the service!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


Brake fluid is every two years on Seat cars as well (probably is for the whole of the VAG group as well then).

If Citroen do it, it sounds like it's getting to be more common across all manufacturers (am sure it used to be every four years). Think this reflects the demands of electronic braking aids though.

I've always had to pay extra for brake fluid changes.

I'm amazed that they want to charge for the handbrake adjustment though, that used to be a basic component of every annual service.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Franchised Motor Dealers, in the same league as Estate Agents and Politicians


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I have just booked my car in for a service ..... "you need your brake fluid changed, it must be done every two years"

Except I had it changed last year :thumbsdown: "oh yes our mistake, so you did"

Seems to be catching!


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## lewjamben (Dec 4, 2007)

Although the brake fluid change isn't part of your service, the hand brake adjust certainly is!

Also, you don't have to take it to the dealers to maintain your warranty - just a reputable garage who'll stamp your book. So look around and I'm sure you'll save some pennies.


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## jeffvader (Jun 10, 2008)

I looked at getting my VW service away from my main dealer & I get a better deal from the main dealer than the local VW specialist. Also VW give me a loan car, which is important to me.


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## tixntox (Jul 17, 2009)

lewjamben said:


> Although the brake fluid change isn't part of your service, the hand brake adjust certainly is!
> 
> Also, you don't have to take it to the dealers to maintain your warranty - just a reputable garage who'll stamp your book. So look around and I'm sure you'll save some pennies.


As I understand it with most manufacturers, you have to have the servicer use genuine parts from a reliable source, but Yes you can have it done elsewhere (but check with your manufacturer to be on the safe side.)


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

towed a car into a MD today, water pump fell to bits 58K oil burning passat, the 1st question the service manager asked was did the driver say if it overheated? Yes it did I said why? Because if he's allowed it to overheat it won't be coverd under warranty! slimey , like you can stop your engine overheating when the water pump explodes!


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## Robert (Jul 26, 2006)

tixntox said:


> lewjamben said:
> 
> 
> > Although the brake fluid change isn't part of your service, the hand brake adjust certainly is!
> ...


When I had the landrover, I told them the service was too expensive and I was going local (using genuine parts) - they offered me 10% off immediately.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I took my car in for a service yesterday, it was losing a bit of water ... result? Another Â£750 on top of the service cost for a new water punp assembly, of course it is an impossible place and they have to take the cam belt off etc etc etc :thumbsdown:

I only did about 2000 miles last year and am now spending more on servicing every year than I am in fuel :to_become_senile:


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## blackandgolduk (Apr 25, 2005)

JoT said:


> I took my car in for a service yesterday, it was losing a bit of water ... result? Another Â£750 on top of the service cost for a new water punp assembly, of course it is an impossible place and they have to take the cam belt off etc etc etc
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Rover by any chance?


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

blackandgolduk said:


> JoT said:
> 
> 
> > I took my car in for a service yesterday, it was losing a bit of water ... result? Another Â£750 on top of the service cost for a new water punp assembly, of course it is an impossible place and they have to take the cam belt off etc etc etc
> ...


Close, MG ZT190 I do so few miles I am reluctant to change it :dontgetit:


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Â£750!!!!!!

Hells teeth


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Griff said:


> Â£750!!!!!!
> 
> Hells teeth


That was pretty much my reaction .... there goes my watch budget


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

Â£750 to replace the water pump? :jawdrop:

I'd seriously check with the SMMT and ask if the dealer repair hours/per job are in line with that.

Even if the pump cost Â£150 that leaves about 10 hours labour at the average independants hourly rate of just under Â£60ph, ten hours to change a pump, well maybe....who works there Ray Charles? :bull*******:


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## tomshep (Oct 2, 2008)

Following the exploding brake pipe at 24,000 miles, Ford declined to honour their warranty obligations because I would not let them service the car again. (The last one I bought from them caused more trouble in their hands than mine.) I am now servicing it myself in 45 minutes for Â£40. I would not let a Franchised garage touch my car and would rely on consumer legislation to resolve any problems. Great car but the dealerships are all they ever were: dismal and crooked. Still, at least I don't have a Mercedes or VW. Then I'd really be in trouble.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Boxbrownie said:


> Â£750 to replace the water pump?
> 
> I'd seriously check with the SMMT and ask if the dealer repair hours/per job are in line with that.
> 
> Even if the pump cost Â£150 that leaves about 10 hours labour at the average independants hourly rate of just under Â£60ph, ten hours to change a pump, well maybe....who works there Ray Charles?


It's a 190bhp version of the Powertrain KV6 and to be honest I don't know how they managed to get it into the engine compartment. replacing a water pump is a major effort  and the pumps themselves are not cheap


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## StevenJJ (Jul 22, 2007)

I wouldn't consider brake fluid or handbrake adjustments to be service items but if this is a vehicle which you purchased from them one would hope they would have the grace to twiddle the handbrake adjuster(s) gratis while servicing.


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

JoT said:


> Boxbrownie said:
> 
> 
> > Â£750 to replace the water pump?
> ...


The pump is Â£87 inc VAT from Rimmer Bros (probably the biggest and best place for parts for MG/Rovers) so I reckon it was a bit of a rip off charging Â£663 to replace it.....I haven't been able to find the labour/job charge rates in our library (as Rover is no longer flying the flag :death: ) but I spoke to a chap in our workshop who is a bit of a MG Rover/BMW nutter and he reckoned it should take no more than 2 hours to replace.....thats a hell'uva hourly rate :blink:

Anyway...so long as its going now I guess........


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Actually it might not be far off the mark depending on where it was done, these V6 engines are tightly packed in there. If you have a swatch around some of the Rover forums Â£500 just for a cam belt change seems to be about the going rate. You'd better hope the head gaskets don't go.

Rover head gasket repair 

My mates dad has the old shape Sterling with the V6 and he reckons something like that cost wise just about writes off the car. And older 75's are getting down to the sort of money where 1000 quid would be to much to spend. Shame really because they are not bad cars. You just need to find a V8 one  The only new car I ever bough was an MG Rover, fortunately when the ex wife bailed out she took it with her, probably about the only favour she did me


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Yeah they have to take the main cam belt off to get at the bloody thing and I havent got it back yet


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

JoT said:


> blackandgolduk said:
> 
> 
> > JoT said:
> ...


:taz: went to visit my son this morning and the car is pissing oil out of somewhere :taz:

I am not so reluctant to change it now


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## Defender (Jan 27, 2009)

For any stuff I don't want to do myself now on either of mine are done by local specialists for that particular marque.

They do a good job, using genuine parts and don't rip me off, I can't fault either of them, it's more like dealing with a friend than a legal armed robber?

Instead of just cahenging the brake fluid, they test it, it passed so wasn't changed, saved me money and the environment.

I am about to change my main car so may be about to re-experience the 'Main Stealer' service experience!

A while back I was getting a new key from the 'main stealer', the parts desk is next to service reception, some poor sole had a list of issues that the service manager was explaining.

I couldn't beleive that they we charging separately for fitting a cam/rocker cover gasket as well as the head gasket , as you'd have to replace it anyway, unless they can get the head off without removing it unless they are using 'The Force' now :starwars:?

Best regards,

Defender :astro:.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

About the only job I won't do myself is change oil or transmission fluid, just to much hassle to get rid of the old oil these days so I'll use a local quick fit or who ever can do it reasonably cheaply.

I give them the oil and the filter and it just saves a mess outside the house. A while back when I had my Corvette the options were limited as it was so low it wouldn't go on the ramps at most places. It either needed to be a pit or one of those lifts with the extending arms. I was passing a local main Vauxhall dealer that has a sort of quick fit bay and thought I would try them, went in gave the guy the filter and the oil. 20 minutes later got the nod and went to pay............... Â£35  I did get offered a cup of coffee while I was waiting though :lol:

Didn't go back there again.


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

BondandBigM said:


> About the only job I won't do myself is change oil or transmission fluid, just to much hassle to get rid of the old oil these days so I'll use a local quick fit or who ever can do it reasonably cheaply.
> 
> I give them the oil and the filter and it just saves a mess outside the house. A while back when I had my Corvette the options were limited as it was so low it wouldn't go on the ramps at most places. It either needed to be a pit or one of those lifts with the extending arms. I was passing a local main Vauxhall dealer that has a sort of quick fit bay and thought I would try them, went in gave the guy the filter and the oil. 20 minutes later got the nod and went to pay............... Â£35  I did get offered a cup of coffee while I was waiting though :lol:
> 
> Didn't go back there again.


Yeah, unfortunately main dealer hourly rates could easily be Â£35 for 20minutes, but at a Vauxhall dealer? I thought GM were paying customers to go in nowadays :lol:


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

JoT said:


> JoT said:
> 
> 
> > blackandgolduk said:
> ...


My son had a look at it; says he thinks it is cam shaft seals :huh: sounds expensive


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

JoT said:


> :huh: sounds expensive


Could be :lol:



> The V6 engine is fitted with four overhead camshafts driven by synchronous tooth belts. It has a single, long, serpentine belt at the front driving the inlet cams and also the coolant pump. The exhaust cams are driven by short link belts driven from the ends of the inlet cams at the rear of the engine. The system was a joint development between Dayco (belt supplier) and Rover. The rear, link belts do not incorporate any tensioning device. Belt tension is maintained by very careful control of belt length and the pulley pair is pre-tensioned during fitting. The front belt drive is tensioned by a spring loaded tensioner pulley incorporating a hydraulic damping element.
> 
> An unusual feature of this system is that it incorporates "floating" inlet cam drive pulleys that are not directly keyed to the shafts. This means that special setting tools are required to establish the cam timing before the pulley fixings are tightened. *This requirement is the result of the complexity of the cam drive train*. In addition to the length and thickness tolerance of the belts, the accuracy of the cam timing is also affected by the positional and diameter tolerance of each pulley and the thickness of each major engine casting. The result is that the required degree of timing accuracy could not otherwise be maintained.


Could be the seals as he said or maybe if you are lucky just rocker cover gaskets. The seals will be pennies but getting to them might not be so easy.

Back of the engine










Front in the car










Although this is for LR it will give you an idea on page 6 of this link, and then there is the front of the engine with the single cam gear.

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/carfix4you/2009-06-25_014322_2.pdf

Where do you start 










A lot of the early ones ended up like this 

:lol:


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## Alas (Jun 18, 2006)

BondandBigM said:


>


How did you get that pic of my wifes last car???  

Oops no it's not. That one still has a drop of oil in it. :naughty:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Alas said:


> How did you get that pic of my wifes last car???
> 
> Oops no it's not. That one still has a drop of oil in it. :naughty:


I had the opposite :lol:

Light flashes, add oil, light still flashes add more oil. Now at that point after a gallon of oil in a Ford Escort I would maybe of had a look but nope, light still flashing more oil but she eventually gave up and set off anyway, she got a few hundred yard from the garage. She never did admit how much oil she actually did put in it. Was it the dip stick on these older Fords that had something to sense low oil level ????? Seem to remember something about that.


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## Alas (Jun 18, 2006)

Maybe she didn't understand the symbol flashing on the dash of a small boy with his thumb in a dyke (the wall kind)


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

BondandBigM said:


> JoT said:
> 
> 
> > :huh: sounds expensive
> ...


:lol: :lol:

It is going in next week 

I am going to buy a BMW I think


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