# Gagarin



## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I managed to get hold of a copy of an English translation of Juri Levenberg's "Russian Wristwatches".

In the section on the "First Moscow Watch Factory" Levenberg states that Gagarin took a ШТУРМАНСКИЕ watch on the Soyuz 1 flight. He qualifies this by saying that it was definitely not a chronograph.

Levenberg then refers to a section of the book that details watches sold by Sotheby's in New York on December 11, 1993.

"Great" I thought







"the answer to the Gagarin watch confusion".

Wrong









Despite saying that Gagarin took a ШТУРМАНСКИЕ into space the watch sold at auction was a 1-й МЧЗ им КИРОВА (1st Moscow Watch Factory in Kirov) 22 Jewel РОДНЙА (RODNIA = "Mother Country"). It realised a price of $25,875.

SO WHY DOES LEVENBERG CONTRADICT HIMSELF IN THE BOOK









Did Gagarin take two watches on the first flight?


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## FrankC (Nov 3, 2003)

Why not E-Mail ПОЛЕТ and ask them for a definitive answer ?.









Frank


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## FrankC (Nov 3, 2003)

Having had another read thru' the said book maybe there's no confusion really.

Levenberg states on Page 8 that Yuri took a Sturman-skie watch into Space.

On Page 23 he shows the RODINA watch as per Yuri's not as you say a chronograh but I don't see anywhere saying that it was a chronograph only that it was a sturman-skie

ШТУРМАН ( SHTOORMAN ) in my dictionary means pilot,steersman,navigator.

Therefore maybe in 1961 a ШТУРМАНСКИЕ wasn't a chronograph just 'a watch', a watch worn by a pilot .

Frank


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

I would love to find out the truth, Gagarin belongs to the world not just Russia.

All pioneer's belong to the world, imvho.


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## FrankC (Nov 3, 2003)

Shouldn't you be in bed at this late hour ?

Frank


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

You are right Frank, I should.

But it seem my avatar is broken and I have to fix it.


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## raketakat (Sep 24, 2003)

Stan said:


> You are right Frank, I should.
> 
> But it seem my avatar is broken and I have to fix it.


 I think thats the poorest excuse I've ever read for staying up late







.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

FrankC said:


> Having had another read thru' the said book maybe there's no confusion really.
> 
> Levenberg states on Page 8 that Yuri took a Sturman-skie watch into Space.
> 
> ...


 Frank I never said that it was a chronograph









I also said the book qualifies it as not being a chronograph









Don't know what you mean in your post.


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## FrankC (Nov 3, 2003)

John

My inference is that Poljot are taking liberties with the fact that Yuri Gagarin wore one of their watches. They NOW call it a Sturmanskie ie a pilot's watch but back then there probably was no such thing he just wore a watch he liked or was given as a present. AFTER, the event they invented the term "Sturmanskie" watch and so the myth was born. When you think about it the Sturmanskie watches are nothing like the RODINA so why make the claim they do, Good publicity I guess.

Frank


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Frank ... no problem ...







I have never understood it ...







its a nice looking watch the 1MWF Rodnia ... why didn't they re-issue it instead of the Shturmaskie non-chronograph watch









I was wondering if Gagarin took two watches up with him ...







... I supose thats feasible.

I asked my interpreter ... she doesn't know .. but thought Gagarin's watch was in the Space City Gagarin Museum









She also says that shturman does translate as "the navigator/pilot/steersman" but in this context pilot is like a harbour pilot or river pilot and not one that flies planes; apparently that is the same as English i.e. "пилот", and that in her opinion "shturmanskie" is traslated as "navigational" but can also mean "mate" as in merchant naval context. She also told me that they now tend to use the English transliteration "навигатор" for "navigator" !!

I give up ....









I am just going to believe that Gagarin had two watches ... its easier that way


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## FrankC (Nov 3, 2003)

John

I prefer to believe what I said in my last post .

Sad in a way as it somewhat de-means the man.

I once went to Gagrin Square in Moscow just to gaze at the great monument.

That was another ambition achieved.

Cheers

Frank

Wish I had a female interpreter instead of a few old books and dictionaries. One of my favourites is " Russian - Self Taught" dated 1917, a gem.


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## raketakat (Sep 24, 2003)

I've given up on this one for the good of my health







.


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## Bob W (May 17, 2004)

Hello, this issue has been debated at length but the facts "seem" to be as follows. Gagarin wore a Sturmanskie in space. It was not a Chrono, but a very simple wind up 2209 movement. It had a 33mm case. The Rodina was presented to Gagarin by the factory upon his return. In 1961 the First Moscow Watch Factory only made Chronos which used the 3017 movement which are now known as Strelas (although many were badged Sekonda and later as Poljot , after the factory adopted that name in honour of Gagarin using their Sturmanskie watch on his flight). The point was that Gagarin simply used his own personal watch. It was not intended as a test. He wore it that day because he wore it every day. There is a remake of the Sturmanskie available at about Â£60. Perhaps RLT could get hold of one or two. If not they come up on ebay from time to time in a rather nice brown pilots strap. Later , around 1965, Russian cosmonauts wore Strelas. When the Soviets set up a joint export dept for the Russian watch industry they badged all exports as Sekonda. The biggest customer by far were the Brits who now own the Sekonda name. Hope this helps.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Bob welcome to the forum and thanks for the information - that sounds feasible and will do for me!!!


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## AlexR (May 11, 2003)

Welcome Bob.


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## raketakat (Sep 24, 2003)

Welcome Bob with an extremely plausible answer to our infernal question .

I note you say "seems"







.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Welcome Bob,

I prefer your version.









Maybe it's because I have one of the repros?


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## FrankC (Nov 3, 2003)

Риветствие Товарищ Bob.

I don't prefer your version but then again I am a cynical old bugger. Or they say.









I still fink it's a story made up to sell more watches









Frank


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Thanks for the info, Bob, and welcome to the forum.

Si


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## Bob W (May 17, 2004)

Many thanks for your welcomes.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

FrankC said:


> I am a cynical old bugger.


 Speed cameras!


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