# O & W Vs. Sinn >>



## SVR (Nov 22, 2006)

I am trying to decide between a Sinn 103 ST SA and a O & W Mk III. They look to be very similar watches but the Sinn is twice as expensive.

Am I missing something about the Sinn that would warrant such a high price?

Thanks for any info.

Sunil


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## kkbb (Nov 21, 2006)

SVR said:


> I am trying to decide between a Sinn 103 ST SA and a O & W Mk III. They look to be very similar watches but the Sinn is twice as expensive.
> 
> Am I missing something about the Sinn that would warrant such a high price?
> 
> ...


Very similar watches. The biggest difference I see is the Sinn is rated to 20 ATM and the Mk III only 10. Sinn I think has more of a high end reputation than O&W which is ironic considering Sinn owners pride themselves on buying these watches as relative bargains compared to Rolex and others. If cost is an issue I'd go with the O&W as it looks the same and has the same movement.

Here's some propaganda on the Sinn



> This is a well designed and superbly crafted timepiece, and a real instrument watch packed with features. It is polished stainless steel with sapphire crystal which is slightly domed and sapphire crystal display back. Water resistant to 20 ATM with a screw down crown and screw down pushers. When the pushers are unscrewed, they become quite broad which makes for comfortable operation. It has a bi directional non ratchet rotating bezel with the pilot essential 0 to 60 minute markings. Sinn decorated Swiss made automatic winding Valjoux 7750 - the world standard for automatic chronograph movements. Day and date windows at 3 position. Width is 41 mm excluding crown and 45 mm including crown Lug to lug is 47 mm, Thickness is 17 mm.












and similar propaganda on the MkIII. As I mentioned, biggest diff I see is in pressure rating



> Quite possibly the finest O&W watch to leave the factory. This is an outstanding wristwatch superbly crafted with the finest components out of excellent design, from the master watchmaker and technical genius, Mr. Albert Wajs. Mr. Wajs has been at the forefront of Swiss watch making and inspirational design since the 1950's, and he continues on with his craft with as much enthusiasm and passion as he did when he first set out life as a watchmaker. In his life, he has seen them come and go, but only the good ones remain. Mr. Wajs remains. The Mirage III is a true testament to Mr. Wajs watch making pedigree. It is a stunning looking watch packed with features handsome looking, practical and purposeful. The case is thick solid and sturdy stainless steel, it has a sapphire crystal, a screw down crown, providing a water resistance of 10 ATM. It has a bi directional ratchet operated rotating bezel, with evenly spaced hour markings favoured by pilots as they use this for calculating flight plans and recording times across various time zones. The movement is the venerable Valjoux 7750 - the world standard in automatic chronograph movements. It records elapsed time up to twelve hours. The twelve hour elapsed timer is at 6, the subsidiary seconds is at 9 and the thirty minute elapsed timer is at 12. It has a day and day function at the 3 position. The dial is mat black which matches the rotating bezel. The dial markings are bold and clear, with read chronograph hands. The luminosity of the dial and hands is very bright. This is an all round lovely and exceptional timepiece, and one to be treasured. Dimensions are 40 mm excluding crown, 55 mm including crown and 47 mm lug to lug, thickness is 14 mm


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## dapper (Jun 18, 2004)

kkbb said:


> SVR said:
> 
> 
> > I am trying to decide between a Sinn 103 ST SA and a O & W Mk III. They look to be very similar watches but the Sinn is twice as expensive.
> ...


The Sinn and O&W shown above are exactly the same price


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## Ricster (Jul 16, 2005)

dapper said:


> kkbb said:
> 
> 
> > SVR said:
> ...


Except that the Sinn pictured is a lot dearer









The basic Sinn 103 ST with acrylic is the same price at Â£495, The Sinn 103 ST SA with sapphire crystal pictured above is Â£800


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## dapper (Jun 18, 2004)

Yes, you're right Ricster









I think the main point is that to do a fair comparison one needs to look at like-for-like. The Sinn 103 ST is closest, in spec and looks, to the Mirage III - and they are the same price


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## quoll (Apr 20, 2006)

Agreed, but the sapphire really needs to be taken into account to compare like-for like. The Mirage is _way _cheaper if you count the sapphire in with the Sinn. I am biased of course, as I have a Mirage and not a Sinn.









I like acrylic and have a lot of old and/or cheap watches with it. It seems wrong on a Â£500 watch to me though. Having said that it looks great on the Sinn 356....

Another thing to consider is resale. I'm sure the Sinn would do better.


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## balu (Nov 6, 2006)

It's a tough decision. If money is not the deal, I would go for the Sinn 103 Ti Ar. Otherwise go for the Mirage III. Compared to the same-prized Sinn 103 St you get a saphire crystal which would be a major issue for me. Having a Mirage III, I can say that this is a wonderful, accurate watch!


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Mirage 111 with the sapphire


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## Agent orange (Feb 11, 2006)

As stated above the O&W doesn't have the same cachÃ© as the Sinn, so second hand values are generally less. For that reason I bought a second hand Mirage III mark 2 for less than half the new price on the forums, it's a beautiful, well made and accurate watch.

A design facture that puts a few people of the O&W is the white day and date wheel as opposed to the black on the Sinn, personally I don't think this is an issue as I think the white makes the day and date more legible at a glance. Anyway that's just my opinion and as ever, all these things are entirely subjective.

Here's a few pics of mine to keep you salivating.

Happy hunting and let us all know your final decision.




























Cheers

Gary


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## redmonaco (Nov 29, 2004)

I do like the screw-down pushers on the Sinn. They would make the difference for me as the watch could be used with no worries in all situations, from 'dress' to 'sports'.


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## JP (Europe) (Jan 9, 2004)

There has been a serious rumor that these (or some) Mirage III -models were originally meant to be Bell & Ross. Some even delivered B&R -boxes. If and when this is true is there any B&R -model with this same case so was there ever "B&R Mirage"? Or was it so that B&R didnÂ´t took this model to their model line?

JP


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## DaveE (Feb 24, 2003)

JP (Europe) said:


> There has been a serious rumor that these (or some) Mirage III -models were originally meant to be Bell & Ross. Some even delivered B&R -boxes. If and when this is true is there any B&R -model with this same case so was there ever "B&R Mirage"? Or was it so that B&R didnÂ´t took this model to their model line?
> 
> JP


Yep, I've heard that rumour too. I also heard that it didn't sell too well as a B&R, so O&W took it on and made a success of it.

cheers

Dave


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## mart broad (May 24, 2005)

DaveE said:


> JP (Europe) said:
> 
> 
> > There has been a serious rumor that these (or some) Mirage III -models were originally meant to be Bell & Ross. Some even delivered B&R -boxes. If and when this is true is there any B&R -model with this same case so was there ever "B&R Mirage"? Or was it so that B&R didnÂ´t took this model to their model line?
> ...


Just my opinion but if resale was a potential issue then of two watches at the same price point the Sinn model would probably command a better re sale price.

If it was badged as a B&R then i hate to think what the price point was









Martin


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## iwhelan (Dec 18, 2004)

I can confirm that my Mirage III came in a B&R box. I have a feeling that it was made in the same factory as B&R. At one point, Sinn and B&R were connected somehow, and a lot of thier watches had similar looks for a while. Some of the older B&R watches even said "B&R by Sinn" right on the dial. I'm sure there's some connection, but we'll probably never know.

In any case, I'm not such a fan of the other O&W watches but since this is such a high quality watch at a lower price, it works for me.



> Just my opinion but if resale was a potential issue then of two watches at the same price point the Sinn model would probably command a better re sale price.
> 
> If it was badged as a B&R then i hate to think what the price point was
> 
> ...


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## mart broad (May 24, 2005)

Just found this B&R by Sinn on another forum,asking price Â£741.00









Martin


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