# Seagull And Shanghai Watches.



## Tony1951

Do any of you people collect or own examples of the Seagull or Shanghai brands?

I am drawn to the more traditional sized and styled watches of the 1940 to 1960 period and actively dislike huge, bling and diver's type watches which are worn only rarely for underwater exploration. I realise this is probably a flaw in my personality, but there we are. I like clean lines, simple classic dial and 35mm sized watches, especially if they are on the thin side too.

Looking on the well known auction site, there are a few suppliers of Seaguls that really interest me, especially offered by a guy who labels his listing with the code Sea-Gull M177S automatic. This looks a very nice watch to me and reading elsewhere, the Seagull brand is well respected. The one I refer to has the ST16 movement. It comes over the sea from Hong Kong to your door for about Â£80.

The Shanghai brand watches on the auction site are a different kettle of fish, but they contain the well known Tongji National Movement. The ones I like are a similar simple style and are wind ups rather than autos. These are basic movements but are said to be capable of honest, accurate performance. You seem able to buy a new one from Hong Kong and have it delivered for under Â£20. This sounds like it might be a recipe for disaster, but I ordered an even cheaper watch from Hong Kong on Boxing Day and it arrived sixteen days later. It contains an auto version of the Tongji movement and it works astonishingly well. It is far more accurate than the Skeleton Pocket watches based on the ripped off ETA design. My Tongji if hand wound delivers -2 seconds a day and about -10 if I don't hand wind it. I think the auto module has too light weight a rotor to effectively wind the watch, or maybe I am too inactive. I think the movement runs short of power at night and runs slower. I haven't had it long enough to be entirely sure.

I couldn't hated the bling winged' shiny, metal foil 'Winner' logo on the dial, so I removed it with a bit of lighter fluid on a Qtip and a cocktail stick. This left a black painted version which was underneath. That I can live with, but the shiny tin one had to go. I also took off a shiny box which surrounded the date window.

All in all, my Tongji movement, WINNER watch was a winner at Â£11 delivered and keeping time to -2 seconds a day. It's a bit bigger and more shiny than I would like, but you can't complain at that price.

WARNING.... It could be that I got real 'good 'un', but on another forum people speak well of the Tongji movement. I'm just a beginner 'watchie', so I can't guarantee anything.



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Winner Watch above. Â£11 delivered. This one has had minor dial mods.

I can't post pictures of the Sea-Gull or the Shangghai brands but you can find them on the auction site. They are more classy than the above watch.


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## Draygo

Hi Tony

I have a few Chinese watches - and they're pretty good IMHO.

These two Seagulls from the 70s might appeal to you as they have the classic look and are quite small (36mm-ish I think).










And these two more recent reissues of a classic Seagull watch have the ST19 chrono movement which is pretty well regarded I think.










Lastly, this one proves that all divers aren't big and blingy - this is a reissue of a 60s military diver by the Shanghai Watch Co - I forget what movement it has :blush: but it's also quite small at 36mm-ish. Looks great (especially when the photos are in focus).










Keep posting any Chinese watches you get hold of - they don't get much of a look in around here


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## mellons

i read a while back that seagul supply 1/4 of teh world's population with watches.....almost as many as rolex!!!


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## Tony1951

Nice looking pieces there Drago. Thanks for posting the pictures. I like them MUCH.... The Diver's watch is indeed slim and neat. Very fine. The two chronometers are neat too. Are the 9 0'clock sub dials power reserve?

I've been reading the forums elsewhere, and there seems to be very complicated provenance for some Seagull watches. You'll probably know this far better than me, but Seagull sell off a lot of their movements to others to make up watches. Also there seem to be several factories, some more highly regarded than others. Buying looks like a mine field, except that the movements are pretty good as far as I understand it.

I found a strip down of the M177s which was fascinating and the movement and finish were really first class. I don't want to offend anyone by referring directly to another watch forum, so I won't but if you google "seagull m177s" you'll come across a link labelled "sea-Gull M177s teardown". It's worth a look as far as high res pictures of the process is concerned. So is the pictorial review that comes top of the search results..... Mouth watering, I'd call it.










I was looking on the auction site for Shanghai small traditional watches and found plenty of nice looking ones. Strangely, while the price of many used vintage ones was about Â£26 plus postage, there were some on sale from Hong Kong at under Â£13 + postage which were advertised as New Old Stock. They looked the same but were unused. I smell a rat here. How can unused cost less than used? I saw somewhere that there are some not so good assembly shops in Hong Kong and probably elsewhere that make up Shanghai Tongji movements and cases AND Sea-Gull ones from spare parts and second quality bits. They are not highly regarded as far as quality goes. This could be just a rumour but how do you know?

I have a watch knocked up in just such a shop which contains the Tongji auto movement. I referred to it at the top of the thread. I love the way it performs for its insanely cheap price ( Â£11 delivered) even though the case is far too big and shiny for my liking. The movement would easily fit inside a case 10mm less across the width. I doubt it needs to be over 10mm thick too. I opened it and had a look inside and though I didn't measure it, it could go in a far smaller case.


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## miroman

Hi to all connoisseurs of the vintage chinese watches. I'd like to show You my little collection. I'm happy I've found a box for coins, which suits perfect for storing watches without bracelets / straps. Unfortunately my Canon makes awful pictures, but I prefer to spend money on watches, not on cameras.

Here's the case:










Without the cover:










There are some other chinese brands, but I'll focus only on Seagull and Shanghai. Here are two Seagulls










and two more










Diamond & one Shanghai










The forum has a limit of 6 pictures, so I put here only Seagull and Shanghai. As You can see, it's not a big lose 

That's for now, other 6 are waiting for the Chinese New Year festival to end and to fly to Bulgaria . I don't know exactly which are 'legitimate' as I'm too new in the VCM, but I hope I'll learn enough and sort them in the near future.Thanks for viewing and best regards, Miro.


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## Tony1951

A splendid haul there Miroman. Do you ever wear them?

By the way, according to the time on your collection, your camera is keeping the wrong time!


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## Lampoc

Welcome to the forum Miroman. That's a fantastic collection of chinese watches you have - deserving of it's own thread I reckon


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## miroman

Tony1951 said:


> A splendid haul there Miroman. Do you ever wear them?
> 
> By the way, according to the time on your collection, your camera is keeping the wrong time!


No, of course . Also I have a small collection of 'modern' Seagulls , but I don't wear them too.



Lampoc said:


> Welcome to the forum Miroman. That's a fantastic collection of chinese watches you have - deserving of it's own thread I reckon


Oh, my pain. I'm overloaded at work and now I really have no time for reviews. When I got some free time, I'll try to present every watch. For this post I used my post from another forum, that's why the date is old.

I see in this sub-forum there are mostly russian fans, so one more chinese fan would bring some color


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## mellons

wow- some collection. great case!!


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## delays

Draygo said:


> Hi Tony
> 
> I have a few Chinese watches - and they're pretty good IMHO.
> 
> These two Seagulls from the 70s might appeal to you as they have the classic look and are quite small (36mm-ish I think).


Great pic. I've got a couple of these watches and you've inspired me to pop them on a NATO. Looks awesome.


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## Draygo

delays said:


> Draygo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Tony
> 
> I have a few Chinese watches - and they're pretty good IMHO.
> 
> These two Seagulls from the 70s might appeal to you as they have the classic look and are quite small (36mm-ish I think).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great pic. I've got a couple of these watches and you've inspired me to pop them on a NATO. Looks awesome.
Click to expand...

Thanks mate. They might be making an appearance on a sales corner near you quite soon, as it happens


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## delays

Draygo said:


> delays said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Draygo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Tony
> 
> I have a few Chinese watches - and they're pretty good IMHO.
> 
> These two Seagulls from the 70s might appeal to you as they have the classic look and are quite small (36mm-ish I think).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great pic. I've got a couple of these watches and you've inspired me to pop them on a NATO. Looks awesome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks mate. They might be making an appearance on a sales corner near you quite soon, as it happens
Click to expand...

Can I ask - where did you source the NATOs?


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## Draygo

delays said:


> Can I ask - where did you source the NATOs?


...from Roy, I think - http://www.rltwatches.co.uk/acatalog/Military1.html :rltb:


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## Tony1951

Ordered the Sea-Gull M177s on the 'bay a couple of days ago. Received an email telling me it is on its way. Should arrive in about three weeks from HK. Hope the excise man doesn't get his hands on it and charge me an extra 20%. At Â£79 is a steal when you look at the reviews to be found around the web. An extra Â£20 would take the gloss of slightly, but that is just because like the rest of us I resent being hammered for tax. It would still be a bargain compared to a lot of brands at a similar quality level.


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## AlexC1981

This thread makes me think I really should spend more time looking at Chinese watches.

I still have my 1963 that I bought from Draygo.


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## Tony1951

Love that Alex. Very classy.


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## Draygo

AlexC1981 said:


> This thread makes me think I really should spend more time looking at Chinese watches.
> 
> I still have my 1963 that I bought from Draygo.


Looking good Alex 

That strap works a treat. I've got mine on a brown NATO inspired by you! And ive tried a leather NATO, but I'm going to ave to try one like yours pictured.


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