# Ooops! Fake Seiko?



## RGrahamSmith (Mar 18, 2017)

Oh, dear! I have a suspicion that the Seiko 5 vintage watch I have bought is a fake. Before I go into detail, I'd be interested to see what others more experienced than I am think of it:



















Don't be afraid of offending me - I might be disappointed but not upset - for reasons you'll see later.


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## RGrahamSmith (Mar 18, 2017)

Here's the inside:










As you can see - the movement number on the mechanism seems to match that on the case.

Incidentally - it's ticking 6 times a second....


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## wookie (Apr 27, 2009)

Hi

Genuine watch that has been redialled in my opinion,That there is no legend at the bottom of the face being a sure sign of a redial.

wook


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

it looks like the braclet is proper.,but not the crown.


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## wookie (Apr 27, 2009)

vinn said:


> it looks like the braclet is proper.,but not the crown.


 The crown may be OK, doesn't that calibre have a weird date advance that you have to press the crown to operate? Which would account for the gap

wook


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## RGrahamSmith (Mar 18, 2017)

Okay - here's the detail.

I bought this off eBay BEFORE I saw the warning on another thread. Yes - you guessed - it's from India. Ooops! Well, I guess it may be one of the so-called Frankenwatches. It might have occurred to me that £20 was a bit cheap, but I reasoned that (a) these watches aren't so expensive in the first place and (b) it's old, so that might be why it's so cheap. What intrigues me is this - WHY would anyone "fake" watches like this? I mean, you hear all the time about people faking antiques, going to a lot of trouble to make them look genuinely old, but that's where they're flogging stuff for £thousands, not for twenty quid! This watch does look genuinely old, so has somebody faked it to look like that? Why on earth would they do this for something like this watch? Anyway, the thing is - it looks nice, it keeps good time, and I didn't shell out much for it. If I bought a watch in a supermarket for this kind of money I wouldn't be bothered. Ah, well - I'm prepared to accept that I've bought something that isn't 100% genuine but, what the heck - I didn't think I was buying anything that would make me a fortune in resale! It'll do me anyway.



wookie said:


> The crown may be OK, doesn't that calibre have a weird date advance that you have to press the crown to operate? Which would account for the gap
> 
> wook


 Yes - it presses to advance the day, not the date. And it has alternative Arabic and English script in the day window. Does that tell you anything?


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## wookie (Apr 27, 2009)

RGrahamSmith said:


> Okay - here's the detail.
> 
> I bought this off eBay BEFORE I saw the warning on another thread. Yes - you guessed - it's from India. Ooops! Well, I guess it may be one of the so-called Frankenwatches. It might have occurred to me that £20 was a bit cheap, but I reasoned that (a) these watches aren't so expensive in the first place and (b) it's old, so that might be why it's so cheap. What intrigues me is this - WHY would anyone "fake" watches like this? I mean, you hear all the time about people faking antiques, going to a lot of trouble to make them look genuinely old, but that's where they're flogging stuff for £thousands, not for twenty quid! This watch does look genuinely old, so has somebody faked it to look like that? Why on earth would they do this for something like this watch? Anyway, the thing is - it looks nice, it keeps good time, and I didn't shell out much for it. If I bought a watch in a supermarket for this kind of money I wouldn't be bothered. Ah, well - I'm prepared to accept that I've bought something that isn't 100% genuine but, what the heck - I didn't think I was buying anything that would make me a fortune in resale! It'll do me anyway.
> 
> Yes - it presses to advance the day, not the date. And it has alternative Arabic and English script in the day window. Does that tell you anything?


 English and farsi would probably mean an indian redial.

wook


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## RGrahamSmith (Mar 18, 2017)

wookie said:


> Hi
> 
> Genuine watch that has been redialled in my opinion,That there is no legend at the bottom of the face being a sure sign of a redial.
> 
> wook


 By legend, what do you mean, please? It it this one?












wookie said:


> English and farsi would probably mean an indian redial.
> 
> wook


 So they change the Day dial as well as the face? Wow! That's a lot of trouble to go to!


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## wookie (Apr 27, 2009)

The legend at the very bottom which is the dial number which always starts with calibre first

wook


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## Mr Levity (Feb 24, 2013)

Looks to me like a new dial and hands. The lack of dial code is always the first obvious sign. I have to say it's actually not a bad looking dial .

The reason they do it is that they buy bucket loads of knackered watches for a few rupees and then pay a little fella with good eyes and tiny fingers a few more rupees to take them apart and make one good watch out of 10 crap ones, then sell to uninformed e-bayers in the UK.The problem is that they don't lubricate properly, if at all, often don't clean off all the rust and they have a habit of falling apart suddenly.

I have been that uninformed e-bayer, back in the day. !! I think I bought 5  Two are still going strong (I've been wearing them as beaters for five years), but the others fell apart within a year. The hands literally fell off one of them, and another was very rusty inside and just stopped.


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## RGrahamSmith (Mar 18, 2017)

Mr Levity said:


> Looks to me like a new dial and hands. The lack of dial code is always the first obvious sign. I have to say it's actually not a bad looking dial .
> 
> The reason they do it is that they buy bucket loads of knackered watches for a few rupees and then pay a little fella with good eyes and tiny fingers a few more rupees to take them apart and make one good watch out of 10 crap ones, then sell to uninformed e-bayers in the UK.The problem is that they don't lubricate properly, if at all, often don't clean off all the rust and they have a habit of falling apart suddenly.
> 
> I have been that uninformed e-bayer, back in the day. !! I think I bought 5  Two are still going strong (I've been wearing them as beaters for five years), but the others fell apart within a year. The hands literally fell off one of them, and another was very rusty inside and just stopped.


 Would it be advisable and/or economically feasible to take it to a good jewellers and have it serviced? Or isn't it worth doing that?


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## Mr Levity (Feb 24, 2013)

RGrahamSmith said:


> Would it be advisable and/or economically feasible to take it to a good jewellers and have it serviced? Or isn't it worth doing that?


 Not really. You may be lucky and have got a good one. See how it goes and if it lasts a year, you haven't lost much. There are bargains to be had. Don't be afraid to run it by us if you see something you like.


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## RGrahamSmith (Mar 18, 2017)

To be fair, I reckon the bracelet alone is worth what I paid. I could always put it on my Pulsar, which it would fit, I think.


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## RGrahamSmith (Mar 18, 2017)

Mr Levity said:


> Not really. You may be lucky and have got a good one. See how it goes and if it lasts a year, you haven't lost much. There are bargains to be had. Don't be afraid to run it by us if you see something you like.


 As a matter of fact this is one I really fancy. Does that look OK?

https://www.eglobalcentral.co.uk/seiko-mens-5-sports-stainless-steel-water-100m-resist-automatic-watch-snzf17k1.html?gclid=CjwKEAjwtbPGBRDhoLaqn6HknWsSJABR-o5s4DjFnHkwiNZNkRJ-GsNewZ9aR7HgN89iZsHtIpVQyxoCtLbw_wcB


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## Mr Levity (Feb 24, 2013)

Looks OK to me. Not familiar with the company but the price is excellent compared to the other mainstream sellers (Creation were about the same price but don't have them in stock). New watches aren't the minefield that is vintage !


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

That redial looks  ... the 5 is pretty sloppy compared to originals.

I have a soft spot for the 7009 Seiko 5s. Mine has remained a steadfast performer since the early 80s when I bought it at Macy's in San Francisco.










Yes, this movement you pulled the crown out one stop to advance the date, then second stop to set the time. Reset the crown, and pushed IN to advance the day. Clever IMHO.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## RGrahamSmith (Mar 18, 2017)

I agree it's not a good repaint, though it's working and keeping good time, and it only cost me £20, so never mind. Chromejob - looks like one similar to that watch is still available:

https://www.firstclasswatches.co.uk/seiko-mens-automatic-snxs73k1-snxs73-p-6866/

Might get one! How good is the luminous paint on the dial? Has it lasted?


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

RGrahamSmith said:


> I agree it's not a good repaint, though it's working and keeping good time, and it only cost me £20, so never mind. Chromejob - looks like one similar to that watch is still available:
> https://www.firstclasswatches.co.uk/seiko-mens-automatic-snxs73k1-snxs73-p-6866/
> Might get one! How good is the luminous paint on the dial? Has it lasted?


I don't believe the lume has lasted much at all. Winds quite freely with the rotor or the crown. Not sure how well it keeps time, as resetting it is so damn easy.

But I posted that huge image so you can admire the crispness of the dial assembly, and the lovely sunburst pattern. Even today, it's a classy watch. And it was a relative cheapie, within reach of a high school student aspiring to class and elegance.


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## Mr Levity (Feb 24, 2013)

@Chromejob that's a nice example, lovely dial. It doesn't hand wind though.

Nice artwork (?) subject.  :laugh:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

I am wearing my sub continent NOS special as we "speak" and very reliable and accurate it has been too. Mind you I got it for helping someone out, so in real terms no money changed hands, but I'm more than happy with it. The folded bracelet doesn't even remove hairs either.  @RGrahamSmith I would just wear it until it dies, offer it on here as a freebie for parts, and if no one wants it, dustbin. :thumbsup:


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

Mr Levity said:


> @Chromejob that's a nice example, lovely dial. It doesn't hand wind though.
> 
> Nice artwork (?) subject.  :laugh:


Not sure if ANY of the Seiko 5 models hand wind. I seem to recall the 5 refers to five core features:

¬ Shock resistant

¬ water resistant

¬ dust resistant

¬ auto-winding

¬ date complication

I probably have at LEAST one of those wrong. But things like hand winding, hacking, sapphire crystal, etc., are not considered required.

OH, here's some info.... http://www.seikowatches.com/5sports/seiko5story/index.html  It's actually a rather sublime read.

… Corrected list

¬ Auto winding

¬ day date displayed in single window

¬ water resistance (original 3bar, later 7bar)

¬ recessed crown at 4 o'clock

¬ Durable case and bracelet


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## Gizzalicious (Jul 16, 2016)

RGrahamSmith said:


> To be fair, I reckon the bracelet alone is worth what I paid. I could always put it on my Pulsar, which it would fit, I think.


 Seiko never made straps with Japan on them.


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## RGrahamSmith (Mar 18, 2017)

Gizzalicious said:


> Seiko never made straps with Japan on them.


 No - I thought that was iffy.


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