# Do I beleive the Seiko Kinetic charge indicator on the SUN019P



## electorn (Aug 12, 2015)

Hello all, I have a Seiko kinetic, its the SUN019P version. I have become quite obsessed with trying to get this thing fully charged! I have worn it to work - no joy. I have shaken the thing to within an inch of passing out - nope, not happening. I went down to London on the weekend and, I couldn't believe it, I hit the magic 30 second deflection with the second hand- nirvana! Six months of charge...

The next day it's back to a 10 sec deflection. Has anyone got any experience with these movements? Should I just let it sit idle and see how long it lasts or do I need to consider my options? I really like the watch but find myself wearing this one over the others because I have to try and keep it charged up to some degree.

Any input will be gratefully received.


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## Rotundus (May 7, 2012)

how old is it ? perhaps it needs a new cap !


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## electorn (Aug 12, 2015)

Well I bought it new from Germany, had it a couple of weeks. Not sure how old the components in it are though. I may have to get back on youtube and see if there are any guides to swap it out rather than faff about returning it.


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## SBryantgb (Jul 2, 2015)

I think in general most watch manufacturers work on the assumption that the greater population own just one watch, or at best two (A watch for best, as they say) So under that assumption they expect a kinetic to take quite sometime of daily wearage to reach full capacity even the manual is very vague on how to reach a full charge. In fact the diagram should state simply somewhere in the future/maybe.










What is odd about yours is that it jumped back so far from 6mnths to over 7days.... completely missing the over one month charge. I've just got mine and its only got just over a days worth of charge and even with wearing it for the next few days I'm not holding my breath that it will get any better judging by my previous Seiko kinetic.

Would be nice to hear from some other Kinetic owners.... I know we have some out there :yes:


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## BASHER (Jun 26, 2011)

It's not unusual for the watch to arrive with a low capacitor charge as it's been sat on a shelf since manufacture.

the only way to get it up to full 30 second indicated charge is to wear it every day for at least a fortnight.

I wear a ska369p1 bfk to work Monday to Friday, if I was to take two weeks holiday and not wear that watch it would likely only indicate 20 seconds when I pick it up again.

You've got to wear it to make it reach and hold a full charge.

Hope this helps

Paul


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## SBryantgb (Jul 2, 2015)

I think the true nature of a Kinetic watch is very similar to an Automatic. As long as you wear it charges... at least enough so that when you take it off and return to it there is still a charge... or a power reserve in an automatic. Most people don't take off there kinetic watch then leave it for a month or two because they have a large selection of other watches. So most will never even check the charge. If a kinetic is your daily wearer then what use is six months of charge, let alone a weeks worth. And that I believe is also Seiko"s thought... Saying a watch can be charged up to six months just sounds so much better.

However this is not addressing the OP's question of why the charge dropped from 6months to just over 10 days so quickly.



BASHER said:


> It's not unusual for the watch to arrive with a low capacitor charge as it's been sat on a shelf since manufacture.
> 
> the only way to get it up to full 30 second indicated charge is to wear it every day for at least a fortnight.
> 
> ...


 Paul Out of curiosity since you wear you kinetic for 5 days a week what sort of charge are you showing on a regular basis? And (if you know) what sort of overnight drop do you see?


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## BASHER (Jun 26, 2011)

Hi Steve

The watch holds a full charge as long it's worn for at least a few days a week.

it was in May this year when I took a two week holiday and the watch wasn't worn that it dropped to 20 second indication.

a few years ago I wore different watches for work and the seiko sat in its box for about four months and it was two second ticking. This is when you're in trouble, as it's not so easy to get back to a decent power reserve. I sent it to Yorkshire Watches and they got it up to full charge for me, only charging me for postage. I believe they used one of those seiko charging plates.

like I say, the only way to achieve and maintain a full charge with these kinetic watches is to wear them for at least three days a week.

Paul


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## electorn (Aug 12, 2015)

Hello guys,

thank you all for your input. At least I know its working as it should be to a degree. To be honest I didn't expect them to be this much work. I do think it's a cracking watch though.

At least I can go pick up one of the eco-drives with no hassle!


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## PDXWatchCollector (Nov 15, 2013)

Have you tried getting one of those rechargeable tealight bases and putting the watch in it for a couple of days?


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

Or an electric toothbrush charger....? :whistling: (Loads of videos on YouTube about this - But not sure whether to believe it or not?)

For what it's worth, just out of interest I tried pressing the button on my Seiko BFK for the first time today, and the second hand went to the "quarter past" position - However, I don't know what that means, so that's not really very useful :laugh:

I wouldn't get too hung up about having the thing fully charged. I'm sure I read somewhere it takes around 30,000 "swings" to fully charge the capacitor....


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## BASHER (Jun 26, 2011)

That's a lot of swings Davey!

When my capacitor went almost flat I looked for a solution and found several remedies. The toothbrush charger one is supposed to work well, but you have to place the watch in such a way that the capacitor is over the charger stalk,sp?

the funniest one was some bloke over the pond who cable tied his watch to the windscreen wiper arm of his car and drove hundreds of miles in the rain! I think he even put a video of it on YouTube!

As said by someone else within this thread, it's not a problem if it's your daily wearer as it'll always have a full charge.

Paul


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Believe believe its a Seiko...we all believe :thumbsup:


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## SBryantgb (Jul 2, 2015)

BASHER said:


> Hi Steve
> 
> The watch holds a full charge as long it's worn for at least a few days a week.
> 
> ...


 Cheers Paul, I figured I would have this one on my wrist pretty much for the duration of the next two weeks :biggrin:

Like Paul said the main thing is to not go so low you get the 2sec tick.... I had that on a previous albeit a used Seiko Kinetic.


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## BASHER (Jun 26, 2011)

OK, I've been giving this subject some thought. . . . , it's just an idea, but the seiko charger, and electric toothbrush charger are induction devices. This has made me wonder if the new induction chargers for Samsung and iPhone smart phones would be able to charge the capacitors in kinetic watches. I guess you would have to find the sweet spot where the capacitor would be over the ''sweet spot'' of the charger, but i don't see why it couldn't work.

Go on, tell me I'm over thinking it. . . . !

Paul


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## PDXWatchCollector (Nov 15, 2013)

BASHER said:


> OK, I've been giving this subject some thought. . . . , it's just an idea, but the seiko charger, and electric toothbrush charger are induction devices. This has made me wonder if the new induction chargers for Samsung and iPhone smart phones would be able to charge the capacitors in kinetic watches. I guess you would have to find the sweet spot where the capacitor would be over the ''sweet spot'' of the charger, but i don't see why it couldn't work.
> 
> Go on, tell me I'm over thinking it. . . . !
> 
> Paul


 I was about to suggest just this -- there's an induction charger on e-bay for the Motorola 'smart watches' that ships out for less than $15USD, and it's made to have a watch sit flat upon it (so no need to worry about where the capacitor is positioned relative to the induction field.) Worth a try for that kind of money.


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## electorn (Aug 12, 2015)

I have a wireless charger for my phone. How will you know if the watch is charging? Just leave it on for a few hours and check the watch indicator I suppose?

Google is in order again.


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## BASHER (Jun 26, 2011)

electorn said:


> I have a wireless charger for my phone. How will you know if the watch is charging? Just leave it on for a few hours and check the watch indicator I suppose?
> 
> Google is in order again.


 I would give it an hour and then press the power reserve indicator button. If the watch reserve is really low it could take an overnight charge to get it up to maximum.

I don't know if it's good for the capacitor to be charged in this way multiple times though?

Please share your results. . .

Paul


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## electorn (Aug 12, 2015)

I did a bit of google action, before I went to work, and there is a lot of info on induction charging.

I have seen one thread that suggests LED candle chargers work well. I may have killed two birds (I hope) with one stone and ordered it.

The house gets nice candle flickery ambiance and I hopefully get a charged watch.. When I get them and try it out I will post back here.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2015)

electorn said:


> I did a bit of google action, before I went to work, and there is a lot of info on induction charging.
> 
> I have seen one thread that suggests LED candle chargers work well. I may have killed two birds (I hope) with one stone and ordered it.
> 
> The house gets nice candle flickery ambiance and I hopefully get a charged watch.. When I get them and try it out I will post back here.


 how do you know the voltages are compatible? plus these don't have capacitors any more, they run off a rechargeable li-ion battery. i would be cautious about using an induction charger without knowing its specs


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## SBryantgb (Jul 2, 2015)

Well so much for that..... Its supposed to be the Ghostbusters don't cross the streams, but for some reason tonight I can't embed video links


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Bruce said:


> how do you know the voltages are compatible? plus these don't have capacitors any more, they run off a rechargeable li-ion battery. i would be cautious about using an induction charger without knowing its specs


 If it has a rechargeable Lith- ion cell that puts a different picture on the whole issue. Li- ion cells have a working life of around 3 years, when shipped they are in "sleep mode", once used they start to deteriorate and lose capacity.

The old capacitor in my Kinetic took a while (weeks of normal wear) to get the indicator to maximum. The crux of the matter lies in the capacity of the cell and the output of the charging system as to how long a full will charge take (obviously).

I'd expect a product powered by a Lithium- ion cell to show some deterioration in capacity in the first year and further deterioration as time passes. I wouldn't worry too much, I'd wear the watch every day for a month and see if the indicator goes up. If not I'd put it down to normal cell attrition.


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## PDXWatchCollector (Nov 15, 2013)

Having trouble getting a reliable internet connection where I am at the moment -- tried to login earlier to add my thoughts but couldn't!

Anyway, I'll just call out that induction charging works well for smartphones, and they use rechargeable Li-ion batteries. To Bruce's point ,maybe check voltages to be sure, but induction charging clearly is an option for Li-ion cells ...


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2015)

i recently replaced a capacitor with the upgrade li-ion and it came fully charged which equates to around 4 to 6 months, the capacity depends on the operating temp IE winter or summer, as a Stan says..once used the li-ion starts to degrade, but used often and kept charged it should last for many years, certainly more than the old capacitor, replacements are not expensive and are very easy to change


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Bruce said:


> replacements are not expensive and are very easy to change


 That's the important part of the equation. :wink:


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2015)

another point which i think is important, the circuitry in the watch has an over charge fail safe, but that only works on the charging mechanism, if you put the watch on an induction charger you have no control over the charge and no accurate method of telling if or when the cell is overcharging, there will also be a certain amount of heat generation using an induction charger which may be enough to damage the electronics in the watch, i feel if its not broken leave well alone, if it is broken fix it properly IMO


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

A Li- ion cell charged beyond 4.2v may become unstable and over heat, possibly self ignite. In an enclosed space (like a watch) it may become explosive.

Under any circumstances, a burning Lithium cell is very difficult to extinguish. :wink:


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2015)

Stan said:


> A Li- ion cell charged beyond 4.2v may become unstable and over heat, possibly self ignite. In an enclosed space (like a watch) it may become explosive.
> 
> Under any circumstances, a burning Lithium cell is very difficult to extinguish. :wink:


 that is a bit scary, they were the types going up in flames on the aircraft weren't they? i have seen a laptop battery going off, it was like a firework


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Bruce said:


> that is a bit scary, they were the types going up in flames on the aircraft weren't they? i have seen a laptop battery going off, it was like a firework


 Yep, when they ignite they burn furiously and most extinguishers have no chance of putting them out. The prerequisite with Li- ion batteries is a sophisticated charging system, a poor charger will put the equipment (and user) at risk.

I've seen them burn in a controlled demo, fearsome things. :wink:

I put my torch battery charger in the bottom of an old biscuit tin when charging, just in case. 

I suspect "most" phones and other portable devices are safe. :laugh:


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2015)

i know laptop batteries have a timer built in, you reach x amount of hours and it gives a failed battery message, my friend removed this and got the battery life back up to about 90%, but it burst into flames 3or4 months later so instead of just a new battery, a new laptop was also needed :laugh:


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Laptops have sophisticated charging algorithms, if you modify the system by hacking it.... don't keep you laptop near you [email protected]. :laugh:

When a laptop battery shows signs of reduced capacity it's often down to one or two of the cells failing. I've opened a couple up, tested the cells and used the good ones in my torches. The cells are normally 18650s in laptop batteries, just the job for many LED torches on the market.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2015)

Stan said:


> Laptops have sophisticated charging algorithms, if you modify the system by hacking it.... don't keep you laptop near you [email protected]. :laugh:
> 
> When a laptop battery shows signs of reduced capacity it's often down to one or two of the cells failing. I've opened a couple up, tested the cells and used the good ones in my torches. The cells are normally 18650s in laptop batteries, just the job for many LED torches on the market.


 that must be what my mate did then, he hasn't done it again :nono:


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Bruce said:


> that must be what my mate did then, he hasn't done it again :nono:


 I assume he still has his testicles? :biggrin:

Some lessons are learned the hard way, all batteries/ cells are consumables and will eventually fail.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2015)

Stan said:


> I assume he still has his testicles? :biggrin:
> 
> Some lessons are learned the hard way, all batteries/ cells are consumables and will eventually fail.


 yes he still has them, the laptop was on a table and went out an open window, i wasnt there when it happened, but i saw the aftermath. if he had been out of the room he would probably have lost his house, it was that violent :scared:


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Bruce said:


> yes he still has them, the laptop was on a table and went out an open window, i wasnt there when it happened, but i saw the aftermath. if he had been out of the room he would probably have lost his house, it was that violent :scared:


 That sounds volatile, a bit like some people. :wink:


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2015)

Stan said:


> That sounds volatile, a bit like some people. :wink:


 quite


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## electorn (Aug 12, 2015)

Until the led charger turns up, I think I cracked it! All it took was a vice, cordless drill, ty-wrap and about 20 mins on a slow spin.

Not the most practical solution, but it works for now and I feel good about it!

Full charge achieved - I am not going to touch it now until Monday evening to see what it indicates then.

Just reading back through the last page, I will not put the watch in the charger for too long and I am going to babysit it at all times - I don't want to have any extra fireworks after tonight!


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2015)

electorn said:


> Until the led charger turns up, I think I cracked it! All it took was a vice, cordless drill, ty-wrap and about 20 mins on a slow spin.
> 
> Not the most practical solution, but it works for now and I feel good about it!
> 
> ...


 well done, a novel solution :thumbsup:


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## electorn (Aug 12, 2015)

Well the LED lights have arrived today, just got to keep the wife happy and charge those up first, then I can try the watch and see if the internet is telling porkies or not. I will hopefully report back with good news ( fingers crossed beacause I have just bought another Kinetic, SUN025 -looks amazing in the photos I have seen, in for a penny in for a pound as they say!).


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## electorn (Aug 12, 2015)

Just a word of caution - don't do the usual male thing of ignoring instructions- I have had the lights sat in the charger for hours, been to see if they are charged at all only to see in miniscule writing around the little red LED, "press to charge"......b*******s!


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## electorn (Aug 12, 2015)

Its time for an update on progress. I have had the watch sat in the chaging base on and off for 4 days now. This is a slow process but it has worked. I read a fair bit on various forums about this method. They give the impression that it should charge fairly quickly, but for me that was not the case. This watch , being quite chunky, it was difficult to find the best orientation. A couple of times I took it out to check progress and there was a little warmth to indicate that something was happening, but trying to find that perfect spot is very difficult. Overall though it works, and the watch shows the full 30 sec charge indication even after being of the charger for a couple of hours. Looking forward to my next one now.


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

Like most members on here, I wear my watches on a random rotation basis, so they sit around unworn, sometimes for weeks at a time. However, whenever I work away in Austria (normally for 1 week every month) I only take 1 watch, and this week I've been wearing the Seiko BFK, mainly out of interest to see what happens to the charge. Bearing in mind I sit at a computer all day, so I'm not exactly moving around much, I checked the watch this morning to see if there was any difference. Well, to my surprise it now shows a full charge, so the kinetic system obviously works fine :thumbsup:

To be honest, I think the kinetic thing is a bit pointless, I'd be just as happy with this watch if it had a standard quartz movement powered by a normal battery. Still, nice to have something a bit different I guess.










:biggrin:


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## electorn (Aug 12, 2015)

I have to say, I have become very fond of both Kinetics now. It was a pain to get them up to full charge, but now they are there I just put them in the candle charger thing for the night and all is well. I wear them once a week and I am glad I stuck with them.

Nice watch by the way Davey P, that may be another one headed for the LED charger, at least it would fill up all three slots!

I have put an orange Marathon strap on the SUN025, I think it looks the business. I will stick yet another photo up in the kinetic thread.


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