# Kinetic Advice



## Owen (Mar 14, 2003)

Can anyone advise me please as to the reliability/longevity of Seiko's Kinetic or Citizen Eco-Drive watches? I am quite attracted by the style of some of the Kinetics, and also by the idea of no battery!









I have also seen comment to the effect that Tissot's Autoquartz is a much superior product. Is that correct? Unfortunately they only seem to have a very limited range of those. Tissot's web-site hints at the possibility of an Autoquartz PR100, but doesn't actually list any individual model.









I have a Vostok Automatic Amphibian (which I like) as an every day watch, but would like to also have something a little slimmer and smarter for some occasions.

Any hints and advice are appreciated.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

The Tissot Autoquartz, or Powermatic, is by far the best, a much superior movement to either the Seiko or Citizen.

The Citizen has a no jewel movement. The Seiko or Pulsar has two.

The Tissot Autoquartz has 17 jewels. I've got one, and it's a lot of watch for the money. These rely on movement. If you can get one of these Tissots, I suggest you snap it up PDQ. They are no longer being made, so if you know of one, buy it!

The solar idea is very good. Argos do a solar Pulsar. I bought one of those, and it's OK, with the 2 jewels I mentioned, one at each end of the stepping motor. The Seiko kinetic is, in my opinion, of flimsy build inside, and I don't like it. The rotor in mine rubs against the inside of the case back, and the cogged shaft that is driven to charge the accumulator is where I think the flimsiness comes in. It's the one watch I wish I'd never bought.

If it was me, I'd get the Tissot if I could, or the Pulsar solar from Argos at a reduced price of Â£79.99. It's good value, and every bit as good as its Seiko owned equivalent(same movement). 

Ask Roy also, as I think he has one or two non Seiko Kinetics, or check the site.


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## Owen (Mar 14, 2003)

Griff,

Thanks for the information and advice.







You've certainly cooled my enthusiasm for the Kinetic. It's a shame as I had always thought Seiko were good quality. A friend of mine has a kinetic and I certainly like the look of it. I will look out for the Autoquartz/Powermatic, although I wish there were more styles available with that movement.

I'll check the site as well. I quite like the look of that Dolphin 24 hour watch. Oops. this watch business isn't catching is it?


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

I went to ebay where there is a whole Kinetic movement for sale. The chap selling it is obdviously a repairer and says some interesting things about the watch.

Apparently it costs Â£70 to replace the "Cell" (effectively a rechargeable battery which holds the Kinetics self generated power). This is not an uncommon repair to these watches, so it would seem that Seiko's claim of the watch "never needing a battery" is a little misleading, and apparently this is by no means the most expensive repair that is known to have to be done to this watch.

Actually when I read this I remembered a conversation I had some time ago with my local watch repairer who has had several Kinetic watches bought in to him for the reason mentioned. He reckoned you can't do anything but send them back to Seiko. I'm sure there are many who have had years of trouble free service but what is the point really. I mean if someone can explain to me the advantages of a Kinetic over a quartz or even a traditional automatic I'm all ears, (so to speak).


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## Sargon (Feb 24, 2003)

I have this one and I love it. I've had it six months and no problems yet. $140.00 on ebay. The auto relay is a cool idea.


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Sargon said:


> I've had it six months and no problems yet.


No offence Spadge but

I should bloody well hope not. That watch does look nice mind so good luck to you.

Why do you think Kinetic is a cool idea.


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## Sargon (Feb 24, 2003)

It's actually way nicer looking than this picture. I said Auto relay is a cool idea. Auto relay means that if I don't wear the watch for 3 days it goes into sleep mode to conserve energy. But it still continues to keep track of time. Up to 4 years later all I have to do is shake the watch and the hands go racing around the dial to the exact right time. It's very dramatic. The case, dial, braclet and clasp are all top quality.


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Yes I have seen a demo of this and it is dramatic. I do think it is a gimmick though. I mean if I put a watch away for four years and pick it up again it would take me about 30 seconds to re-set the date and time.

I'm a big fan of Japanese watches so don't get me wrong. I just think that's a bit of a gimmick. I'd be interested to hear from someone, how Kinetic watches improve over quartz or traditional automatic.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

The auto relay makes me feel a watch has become more of an electronic timer. I've gone off kinetic a bit, and prefer solar. I'd be thinking the auto relay function is a fault problem waiting to happen.

No offense to Sargon's watch. Each to his own. Don't really like that silver button in the middle of the dial over the centre of the hands either, but that's just me.

I've reviewed my opinion of Seiko as some know, but I don't like their Kinetics, and think the Tissot is far better, as I've said a number of times.

What might be a good idea, is a good quality mechanical with at least a 2824, and a small window at the bottom of the dial for a small solar powered digital display, and 2nd time zone, but NO battery. Just a thought!


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

I've often heard of problems with the Seiko kinetics, but not really with the Citizen eco drives - maybe they are the better option.

Griff, do you know why the autoquartz are no longer being made if they were so good??.

G.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

I don't think they sold that well, except perhaps to the informed.

They were also too well priced, for a lot of watch, that would have been much dearer in a top make. I think it just cost them too much for the return they got on those models, so they just dropped 'em.

Believe me though, they are top quality movements, and the best kinetic style watch I've ever seen!


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## Owen (Mar 14, 2003)

Thank you all for the information and comments







I found a Seiko/Citizen forum whilst I was trawling around the web, and I found comments there that the capacitors often need to be replaced on the earlier Kinetics. The implication presumably was that the later ones were better. Someone had a "how to do it" page on replacing the capacitor. I suspect that you would need one or two specialist tools for the job.

I must admit that I also wondered whether there had been a capacitor/battery problem with Tissot's Powermatic. How long have you had yours Griff?

I am inclined to think that the light powered drive is the way ahead, provided that a watch-lifetime battery/capacitor solution can be acheived. Then the advantage over a conventional quartz is obvious! If the cell lasts only as long as a normal battery then it's a disaster









The principal advantage over an automatic, particularly for a watch that isn't going to be "beaten"







every day is that the power reserve is much greater.

Of course you would also have quartz accuracy if that is your wish.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Had the Autoquartz for about 4.5 years. No problem. Probably wont need a cell change for 20 years +

No big deal if it does!

But yes, I think solar is a better system.

A clever idea would be to combine a mechanical with a solar smaller window digital read out for a 2nd time zone.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

I don't think that the Citizen eco's use a capacitor, but rather a rechargeable button cell which are far more reliable and are more capable of running additional stuff like chrono's etc. They should last 15-20 years.

G.

Ps; Griff / Batman - I like your new avatar. Andy, I'm glad to see you have one at last - a Seiko, suprise, suprise!!.


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