# My Watch Has Got More Jewels Than Your Watch



## digibloke (Nov 26, 2007)

Vintage Pierce (seamaster looky-likey). 77 jewels - most of them not doing anything. Can anyone beat that?


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## no8yogi (Oct 1, 2012)

I can see how they squeezed them in look at all of the redundant ones in that cog!?


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## Thomasr (Oct 11, 2011)

waiting for the 100 jewel walthams to appear...


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## wookie (Apr 27, 2009)

Hi

I quite like that pierce, best I can do is my GP 39 jewels,



wook


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## andyclient (Aug 1, 2009)

My Waltham can only manage a meagre 41 i'm afraid


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

do two watches count?



it's not what you have, it's what you do with them that counts!

(fecking photobucket won't rotate the photo!)


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## digibloke (Nov 26, 2007)

"(fecking photobucket won't rotate the photo!)"

- That's why my first pic of the Pierce is upside down - bit annoying...

If I remember correctly only 17 of the 77 jewels actually serve a purpose and about 20 of the useless ones are on the underside of the auto winding rotor. Still a nice watch though and I like the speckled eggshell patina (rust spots  on the dial.


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Somewhere I have an old Swiss-made watch with 30 jewels and I thought the watchmaker was having me on! Now I see that I was wrong - well partly so. I find the jewelled cog in digibloke's vintage 77-jewelled Pearce rather attractive, even if the jewels it contains are redundant.

By the way, could I ask a couple of questions here?

Firstly, are all the red jewels in old watches rubies? And why don't watchmakers use a greater variety of hard gemstones in their movements? I am sure I have seen movements containing blue jewels - sapphires perhaps.

And secondly, can one do anything about the speckling one often sees on the dials of old wristwatches? In the case of Pearce illustrated above, digibloke mentions that they are rust spots, and I am aware that other forms of spotting also occur. As I have already "destroyed" an old Rado by trying a DIY job on the face, I think your advice will be to leave well alone. However, can expert repairers really improve this sort of spotting or once again, should one just accept the dial as it is and enjoy the watch?


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## Will Fly (Apr 10, 2012)

My Borea has 1 jewel. Do you hear? "ONE JEWEL!" And it keeps perfect time.

Under a Socialist government, all watch jewels will be nationalised and distributed among the poor.

You have been warned.

Keyless work (ers) of the world - UNITE!


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## no8yogi (Oct 1, 2012)

Jewel bearings were invented in 1704 for use in watches by Nicolas Fatio de Duillier, Peter Debaufre, and Jacob Debaufre, who received an English patent for the idea. Originally natural jewels were used, such as diamond, sapphire, ruby, and garnet. In 1902, a process to make synthetic sapphire and ruby (crystalline aluminium oxide, also known as corundum) was invented by Auguste Verneuil, making jewelled bearings much cheaper. Today most jewelled bearings are synthetic ruby or sapphire.

Historically, jewel pivots were made by grinding using diamond abrasive. Modern jewel pivots are often made using high-powered lasers, chemical etching, and ultrasonic milling.

Not my work from a famous website

Here in fact

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewel_bearing


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

TIMEX Ticka's don't have *any* jewels - - thay are the "People's watches" - - that's why jewellers don't like servicing them, there's no redundant jewels they can pilfer! (joking guys if there's any jewelers reading this, all us TIMEX tinkereers know you're frightened of the two plate movements :lol: )


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

woah - why did my photo right itself? spooky!


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

scottswatches said:


> woah - why did my photo right itself? spooky!


Aliens Scott, Aliens! :yes: :fear:


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Spooky things go on with this Forum scottswatches, especially with topic titles, as I can testify. Don't try putting a title in quotes or the initial letter of the title will revert to lower case. I even tried it with a single apostrophe as a quotation mark but it did the same thing. So far, my photos have been untouched, but you never know. Certainly, I have had to remove a photo or two when the Forum decided that I had exceeded my allowance.

Thanks for the info on jewels in watches, no8yogi. I think that they use computers also nowadays in the grinding process to get the exact cut they want - at least, they do this in the jewellery business. And although I am with you Will Fly, I'm afraid that the synthetic varieties are probably just not worth giving to the poor.


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

This Omega Dynamic Chronograph has a total of 44 jewels, all fully functional, which is probably the highest count of any in my collection...


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Dear artistmike, that is a lovely Omega, 44 jewels or not. I would love to know what the actual difference in efficiency is between a watch with no jewels and a fully jewelled timepiece. I wonder if, with your knowledge, you might be able to give a rough answer. And dear Mel, what is a two plate movement. I have a few Timex mechanical watches lurking in my collection, so I would love to know.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

A two plate movement is the innards of most vintage mechanical TIMEX brand watches, there is no bridge to hold the balance wheel in place basically, all - that's - ALL the parts are held in a sandwish of a top and a bottom plate, making for complete interchangeability of parts between various models using the same movements. These are notoriously fiddly to put back together if you take them apart to service them, we don't have the assembly jigs used in the semi automated and fully automated assembly departments at the various TIMEX plants. :lol:

My best time of re-assembly so far is two weeks and four San Miguel beers and a Brandy over ice, two Anadins and a lie down in a darkened room after! That's one reason watchies don't like to service them! :yes:


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

> Certainly, I have had to remove a photo or two when the Forum decided that I had exceeded my allowance.


Just so you are aware, Honour....you can post up to 6 pics in a single thread. If you want to add more, you post the original thread and 6 pics, then immediately add a reply to your own thread and add more. The only problem that can arise is if someone posts before you get the second lot up. I've had this happen several times, and it spoils the continuity of the two threads. I tend to put 'More pics to follow' at the bottom of the first thread if I have a lot to post, in the hope that other members will wait a while for me to get the next set posted. Hope this helps a bit. :yes:


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## AVO (Nov 18, 2012)

You will have to tell me your secret for posting six pictures, Rog. If I try to put more than three on it tells me I'm putting too many on.


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

> Dear artistmike, that is a lovely Omega, 44 jewels or not. I would love to know what the actual difference in efficiency is between a watch with no jewels and a fully jewelled timepiece. I wonder if, with your knowledge, you might be able to give a rough answer.


The history of jewels in watches is fascinating and the period when manufacturers went mad putting them in anywhere, just to put the count up, didn't go on for very long as the public weren't quite as gullible to that type of marketing as the manufacturers would hope, even though they do manage to convince us of a lot of rubbish at times.  ...

Good watches have and can be made without jewels as Mel will attest and in fact some terrific and very accurate early watches didn't have them. The obvious answer as to why they are there is to reduce friction at the bearing when in use and also to reduce wear to prolong accurate life, . .... Actually though, another important point is that it also makes the manufacturing process more reliable, in that the co-efficient of friction of these jewels is reliably constant so when modern mass-production techniques are used, the resultant watches will all tend to have exactly the same characteristics and work for longer at the designed accuracy, the tolerance of which can be a lot finer, hence watches that last a lot longer at the higher accuracy demanded these days and combined with better oils, provide longer service intervals. ... In fact when you start coupling that with co-axial escapement technology, again using jewels on the pallets, servicing becomes a rare event...

Don't forget also that good quality and High End Quartz analogue watches also use jewelled bearings for the drive train for exactly the same reasons as it's no good having a wonderfully accurate quartz escapement and then losing much of that accuracy through inefficient bearings on the train...

A complex shaft bearing with hole jewel and capstone and tiny amounts of oil is a remarkable piece of engineering in an amazing mechanical engine and as anyone with a display back will attest, it's well worth looking at through a good loupe, though I wouldn't recommend taking one apart to have a look unless you really know what you're doing...  .


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

finally got the back off the Precimax, only to see this



so that'll be a 21 jewel watch and 20 extra unfunctioning jewels stuck in the gears for no good reason. bah!

at least the Girard Perregaux didn't let me down. The caseback also said the gold plate is 80 microns thick! it has still worn through though :thumbsdown:


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## stevieb (Feb 12, 2010)

Scott,

Your not wrong, history has told us. The 14 jewels in the rotor of your GP 22 are fully employed roller bearings that create a cluch assembly to convert the bi-directional output of the oscillating rotor to a clockwise winding moment. I can't remember ever having to repair them making them exceptionally reliable.

These jewels are fitted into hubs called Gyrotrons for a full explanation there's a manufacturers leaflet from 1957 that can be searched and easily found.

The other 25 jewels are divided between the normal tasks.

In my experiance the 39 jewel GP 21's and later HF 31's are exceptionally good selfwinders, where the jewel count does matter.

Regards, Steve


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