# Leeds Piece And History



## James

Perhaps some of you UK'rs could help me out on this piece. Looking for some information on the maker, would be greatly appreciated. I know its a lot to ask but really curious on the history. Posted pics of this at some point last year, had it serviced and detailed it since the pics.

Who was Stone?

Where was his shop located and what may be there now?

What time frame did he manufacture watches?

To what extent were his abilities, did he assemble only?

What happened to his business?

Any family left?

I know, usual questions. I find history interesting regarding smaller watchmakers. Anything that can be dug up would be great. Thank you for your time.


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## James




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## James




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## Chascomm

Ahh... That's a lovely piece! Thanks for sharing.

The case appears to be hallmarked Birmingham 1897, if I'm reading it right

http://www.silvercollection.it/englishsilverhallmarks.html

http://www.horologia.co.uk/hallmarks_birm1.html

However that seems a bit late for a full-plate key-wind...



James said:


>


What? No fusee? I guess that would be right if it really was from the 1890s ... but it still looks way older than that.


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## Mikrolisk

Can you take a photo of that hallmarks in the dust cap?

I see the city hallmark for Birmingham (the anchor) and a 'X' - that could be for 1872 or 1897 (all other dates are implausible)

And by the way, a great watch, not a fusee, but a nice peace of history.

Andreas


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## James

Amazing system of tracking hallmarks. It does seem to be 1897. I guess WE is the silversmith? I can find some other H. Stone pieces dating back to early 1800's, some under Harris Stone. Can't find much more yet the more I play with it the more I want to know now. Thanks, appreciate any help. Bit blurry pics, hand held today!


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## James

WE I think is the case maker, to quote "William Ehrhardt founded the company in 1856 in Birmingham and his addresses included 30 Paradise Street and 26 Augusta Street and from 1872 onwards at 72, Great Hampton Street."

Was H. Stone a retailer then?


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## chris l

I Googled H Stone in UK and found him recorded as a watchmaker 'working in Leeds prior to 1907', in an old auction catalogue.

Two examples from the web....

"Massive English Lever Fusee by H. Stone of Leeds ~1815

1815 Victorian English Lever Fusee pocket watch by H. Stone of Leeds. The silver case is hallmarked for London 1815 & includes the case makerâ€™s initials IJTN. The outer engine turned case with milled side band.

The case diameter is a massive 58 mm in diameter (bow not included) & the case is approximately 23mm thick. The gilded movement is signed "H. Stone Leeds 122644" which corresponds to the number stamped on the inner rear cover of the case as well as the inner case. English Lever Fusee that is in excellent condition throughout."

"Solid silver large and substantial fully hallmarked key wind English Lever Fusee chain drive pocket watch made for H. Stone Leeds hallmarked for Birmingham 1890. The watch has a white porcelain dial in mint condition with bold black Roman numeral hour markers, black hands subsidiary seconds dial mounted at 6 o'clock. The watch with gilt frosted Fusee chain drive movement housed in a silver engine turned double hinged case which still has the original glass fitted. This watch is in lovely condition throughout."

Not much, I know, but tends to confirm that he was a maker, rather than merely a marker...also the dates are so far apart that I wonder if it was a Father/Son business?

I'll have another dig around.


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## James

Thank much. Yes noticed that too the spread of years almost 100, quite a long time


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## Bernie

Hello,

the dateletter dates the watch in 1897, see www.925-1000.com. H. Stone is the watchmaker but often it is difficult to find information about them. The watch is without fusee, but really nice and in a good condition, I got one similiar one from 1912, signed Rosenberg, Leeds on the dial but not on the movement, it is a late one, but full-plated and key-wind. These watches were build in large number of pieces, look at the movement-number. These kind of movements were build even in the 1st. quarter of the 20th. century.

Bernie


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## blondie.com

Bernie said:


> Hello,
> 
> the dateletter dates the watch in 1897, see www.925-1000.com. H. Stone is the watchmaker but often it is difficult to find information about them. The watch is without fusee, but really nice and in a good condition, I got one similiar one from 1912, signed Rosenberg, Leeds on the dial but not on the movement, it is a late one, but full-plated and key-wind. These watches were build in large number of pieces, look at the movement-number. These kind of movements were build even in the 1st. quarter of the 20th. century.
> 
> Bernie


Hi i am new on here and the reason i joined is because i have been seaching for any info i can find on a watch maker named Harris Stone, i have a ladies watch by this maker and would love to know more about it. I wonder,because i can't find much info on this maker, does that make it a rare watch?

All i have found is that the watch has a Brittanic bracelet band..... which was the height if fashion in the 1920's, but the watch looks much older, but its in perfect working order and i love it!!


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## Denis

It is a common fallacy amongst watch enthusiasts to suppose that the name engraved on an English movement or printed on a dial was that of the maker. From the mid-Victorian period in England, virtually all such names were those of the retailer and this watch is no exception. At the time this was made, pocket watches were being made in factories by machinery by makers such as Wm Ehrhardt Ltd (WE), Lancashire Watch Co (TPH), H Williamson Ltd (CHE)and John Rotherham Ltd (JR) amongst others. This Ehrhardt is a typical example which, apart from the design and layout of the movement, can be identified from the dial plate which will most likely be engraved with Ehrhardt's 'winged arrow' trademark. The term 'safety pinion' refers to an elegant safety device in which the centre wheel pinion is a screw fit onto the centre wheel arbor (=axle). In the event of a mainspring breakage, the force exerted causes the pinion to unscrew itself, thus effectively putting all the train in 'neutral'and preventing damage to wheel teeth and delicate pivots. I have restored hundreds of these and the device is very effective. I can recommend a website run by Leicester University - historical directories.org- where one can browse numerous trade directories such as Kelly's, White's etc for tracing watchmakers and jewellers in England and Wales. I am a restorer specialising in English watches and look forward to sharing my knowledge and experience with other forum users.


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## Denis

Ref my last reply, I must apologise for the reference to 'safety pinion'. For some reason, I thought it had been mentioned by the original poster but it hadn't. The information I gave may not be relevant to this watch but many such movements by Ehrhardt are marked 'safety pinion'. Those made by LWCo refer to it as a 'reversing pinion'. The device can also be found in American watches by Waltham and its use in English watches is believed to have derived from the Americans.


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## James

thanks!


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## bettywont

I also have a H Stone Leeds watch, but I have different markings from everyone else. I went to the encyclopedia of marks and I think mine might be dated around 1727. I have the lion that indicated sterling .925. The city marks are the lion and the knights with a sword in the middle stating Chester, En

gland. I dont see the Duty markings; which didnt come out till 1784. The Date letter is a fancy B in a box , which show the date 1727. The maker mark looks like it could be TPH, but the T is unclear. It also has an A mark by itself. which know one else seems to have. It also has what looks like an A321 along the rim of the same area as the markings. When I look in side it also has another mark No560031 and says Reversing Pinion. I was told to look for gems as weights, but not sure where they would be cause all I see is what looks like little gold stubs, about fifteen of them. If anyone can help with the markings I would be greatful. I got the watch from my grandpa who was from England and it came with the key and a chain about just under a foot long with two sheilds attached to it. I was much surprised that the watch still works.

Thank you,

Nadine


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## bettywont

Also just to add. I went to this sight and it was very helpful. http://www.925-1000.com/index.html


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## Melville

bettywont said:


> I also have a H Stone Leeds watch, but I have different markings from everyone else. I went to the encyclopedia of marks and I think mine might be dated around 1727. I have the lion that indicated sterling .925. The city marks are the lion and the knights with a sword in the middle stating Chester, En
> 
> gland. I dont see the Duty markings; which didnt come out till 1784. The Date letter is a fancy B in a box , which show the date 1727. The maker mark looks like it could be TPH, but the T is unclear. It also has an A mark by itself. which know one else seems to have. It also has what looks like an A321 along the rim of the same area as the markings. When I look in side it also has another mark No560031 and says Reversing Pinion. I was told to look for gems as weights, but not sure where they would be cause all I see is what looks like little gold stubs, about fifteen of them. If anyone can help with the markings I would be greatful. I got the watch from my grandpa who was from England and it came with the key and a chain about just under a foot long with two sheilds attached to it. I was much surprised that the watch still works.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Nadine


Your watch was retailed by H. Stone from his shop premises in Leeds. Many retailers had their names added to the dials and movements that they bought in. The watch was factory made by The Lancashire Watch Company. The initials TPH on the case is for the name Thomas Peter Hewitt of the Lancashire Watch Company whose mark was registered with the Chester Assay Office in the 1890's and early 1900's. The fancy date letter 'B' is in fact for the year 1902 not 1727. The Lancashire Watch Company was formed in the late 1800's to manufacture watches in an attempt to counteract the huge numbers of machine made watches entering the country from the American makers such as Waltham and Elgin, but this attempt was too little, too late and the company soon went into liquidation.


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## DJH584

And just to bring this thread up to date, we have just returned from a nearby Antiques Fair where I also bought a Harris Stone pocket watch in full working order.

It has a Swiss made non magnetic movement, serial no 2612, which is key wind and set and also has its own dust cover. It is in a Dennison silver case with Birmingham hallmarks for 1929.

Anyone else got one of the Harris Stone watches?

Regards

David


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## stone

My grandfather left me his, it was his fathers. It has got the phrase 'Pioneer' inscribed on the rear? Will try to get more info on line as there's no surviving relatives to tell me more.

Ronnie Stone


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## David L

> Does anyone know anything about a J Levenstein in Leeds. I just bought a silver pocket watch from E Bay that was made by my great Grandfather...or at least retailed by him in Holmfirth around 1880. Any information gratefully recieved.


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## Swiss

Just found out he was my great grandfather and would like to buy one of his watches if I can. My other great grandfather was Thomas Condliff another watchmaker from Liverpool.


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