# Cheap Seiko 7a38-701b 'raf Vulcan' On Ebay ....



## SEIKO7A38

As mentioned in a post (or two) in another thread in the 'General' section, last week I was fortunate to have picked one up ....

(after the hyped rumoured $1000+ prices being paid, over the last year or two, on and off eBay), for a comparitive song. 

See: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=120420415704










Yup - a mere â‚¬167.66 Euros, with postage, and PayPal currency conversion ended up almost exactly the same in Â£ Sterling.

It arrived safely today (he says, breathing a sigh of relief ) and I've been wearing it (and a big grin on my face) all day. 

Before I go any further, I'd like to thank fellow 7A collector, Dave Swan (from oop North) for giving me the 'heads up'. :thumbsup:


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## mrteatime

thats a wrong 'un that dude....i can tell from here :tongue2:

seriously tho......i do like those.......great find


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> (after the hyped rumoured $1000+ prices being paid, over the last year or two, on and off eBay) ....


There has been some previous discussion about these _allegedly_ 'RAF Vulcan' issued 7A38's on RLT:

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1138

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=24728

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=28740

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=20812

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=35969

Much of the 'Vulcan' myth seems to have stemmed from Foggy's earlier posts, and his two websites:

http://home.earthlink.net/~nederick/SeikoChronoRevuVulcF.htm

There has also been a heckuva lot of discussion about them on other watch forums recently: MWF; SCWF and TZ-UK.

Unfortunately, RLT forum rules prevent me from posting links to the relevant threads.


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Unfortunately, RLT forum rules prevent me from posting links to the relevant threads.


Probably the most interesting and significant post was made by 'VulcanBob' on 27th April 2009, on MWR:



> Can I destroy a myth? I flew Vulcans from 1975-84. The yellow-faced Seikos were apparently purchased by the MOD in 1983. I read that some 700 were bought. By 1983, there was only 1 Vulcan squadron left (No 50, based at RAF Waddington) with just 50 aircrew officers.
> 
> Unfounded rumour has it that the yellow-faced Seikos were purchased because they were easier to see in the dim Vulcan cockpit. The Vulcan cockpit was `jam-packed` with black instrument dials of various shapes and sizes. There was always more than enough light to see them, AND our black-faced aircrew watches.
> 
> The Vulcan came into service in 1958 and the last squadron was disbanded in April 1984. It is illogical to think that the MOD would make a special purchase for watches in the last year of the aircraft`s military life.
> 
> The explaination that there are no military markings on the watch "because they were the subject of a "local purchase order" does not ring true. Supply Officers` cash limits for local purchases were highly-regulated and very limited. The cost of 700 Seikos would undoubtedly be well-beyond any "local purchase" limits.
> 
> As to the photographs in Charlie`s message. This is a modern-day watch and, unfortunately, I do not think that it has anything to do with the military, despite the stamped numbers on the back. I see no reason why the MOD would purchase an attractive coloured faced watch such as this one. An RAF Supply Officer I know has checked for me and, apparently, there are no such watches anywhere on the MOD inventory.
> 
> Sorry folks!


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## SEIKO7A38

So it looks like the 'Vulcan' myth has been well and truly exploded. <_<

Further blogs, summarising posts from various other watch forums seem to confirm this, for example:

http://horologycrazy.blogspot.com/2009/05/...orce-seiko.html

But do I care ? :huh: Nope.







I've just added a rare yellow-faced 7A38 to my growing collection.

Fortunately I didn't have to pay 'silly money' to get it.


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## JoT

And you are learning how to post without links to other forums .... a good day indeed!


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## SEIKO7A38

Post edited for content. I think I've wasted enough time jousting with RLT Mods for today. :lol:


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## MIKE

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Post edited for content. I think I've wasted enough time jousting with RLT Mods for today. :lol:


Leave them alone







we would not have a forum with out them 

Intresting what you have dug up about the RAF Vulcain 

Mike


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## JoT

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Post edited for content. I think I've wasted enough time jousting with RLT Mods for today. :lol:


It's Ok we will arrange for the database to get corrupted so nobody will know you have been here at all; and I saw it before you edited the first time by the way


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## grey

MIKE said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post edited for content. I think I've wasted enough time jousting with RLT Mods for today. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Leave them alone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we would not have a forum with out them
> 
> Intresting what you have dug up about the RAF Vulcain
> 
> Mike
Click to expand...

And you've put paid to my 'Kamikaze G-Shock' post- in the Sales Forum - B*****d!. And my Goering NATO stap business. Thanks, pal! h34r:

Thanks for a refreshing posting :lol:

Cheers

Graham


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## Foggy

> Much of the 'Vulcan' myth seems to have stemmed from Foggy's earlier posts, and his two websites:
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nederick/SeikoChronoRevuVulcF.htm
> 
> First, let's get some facts straight. The first website you link to is not mine.
> 
> Second, I have always referred to the "Vulcan" Seiko as fabled. I did not create the myth, merely reported the information known at the time.
> 
> I seem to be getting a lot of blame across various fora for starting this story which is simply not the case. To this end, I intend to kill the article on Seiko's and the RAF on my website. It's also posted somewhere here on the forum, so I'd ask if a mod could kindly delete from here too.
> 
> I'll leave finding the truth around these watches to the peolpe who clearly know better .
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Foggy


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## jasonm

Done Ian.....

Ian, you are immensely respected across many many fora for your knowledge on mil watches ( and watches in general) your sites are a great resource and give a point of view, the fact is no one knows for certain , thats why there are all these discussions, your point of view is just as valid as anyone elses in my opinion and I and thousands of others have enjoyed your website for its Seiko content, it would be a shame to delete it, its part of the story.....


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## jasonm

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> So it looks like the 'Vulcan' myth has been well and truly exploded. <_<
> 
> Further blogs, summarising posts from various other watch forums seem to confirm this, for example:
> 
> http://horologycrazy.blogspot.com/2009/05/...orce-seiko.html
> 
> But do I care ? :huh: Nope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've just added a rare yellow-faced 7A38 to my growing collection.
> 
> Fortunately I didn't have to pay 'silly money' to get it.


That blog does not explode any myth at all, the conclusion was 'who knows' there are lots of words like 'doubt' 'rumour' etc... Not exactly definative....


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## London luke

jasonm said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it looks like the 'Vulcan' myth has been well and truly exploded. <_<
> 
> Further blogs, summarising posts from various other watch forums seem to confirm this, for example:
> 
> http://horologycrazy.blogspot.com/2009/05/...orce-seiko.html
> 
> But do I care ? :huh: Nope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've just added a rare yellow-faced 7A38 to my growing collection.
> 
> Fortunately I didn't have to pay 'silly money' to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> That blog does not explode any myth at all, the conclusion was 'who knows' there are lots of words like 'doubt' 'rumour' etc... Not exactly definative....
Click to expand...

Just makes me wonder why people would pay a huge premium for a seiko without checking any rumors etc. My Father flew Vulcans at RAF Scampton 40 years ago .And he never had a "yellow" seiko. In fact he had a OMEGA .


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## Foggy

Thanks Jase

I appreciate your kind words. I've taken quite a lot of, IMHO unfair, flak over my article for some time now.

What I do know is this.

All of the yellow dialled Seiko's that I am aware of (granted, not many) came from MOD stores. Mine did, along with a large bunch of gen 1 RAF issue. Then there are Anchor supplies who deal with military surplus - they had at least one one. Another came from an airbase in Germany. Another came from an MOD store in Plymouth.

Petew on the seiko forum has shown a Seiko catalogue with them pictured and has stated that becasue of this they could be bought from a jewellers at the time - I've asked on many fora for somebody who has bought one privately, new from a shop, to come forward and reveal themselves - so far, nobody has done this. I find that a little odd.

Granted, the Vulcan bit is probably a myth (hence my use of the term fabled) but I am certain there is a link with the MOD and these watches. One day, maybe, we'll find out.

Cheers

Foggy


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## Foggy

> My Father flew Vulcans at RAF Scampton 40 years ago .And he never had a "yellow" seiko


Um, 40 years ago. I make that 1969. There were no quartz issued watches in 1969, so hardly surprising :huh:

Cheers

Foggy


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## jasonm




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## JoT

Oh dear!!

Foggy you have made my day


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## LuvWatch

Interestingly out of 310 7A38 variants on the Seiko database not one indicates a yellow dial :huh:

In fact the model number for the watch in question indicates it's a brown dial on the database.

Fascinating stuff, where's that time machine when you need it :sadwalk:

Derek


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## johnbaz

well

whoever they were designed for/by or their pedigree, the yellow dialled ones are gorgeous and deserve to command the high prices that they do...

love the date layout too :thumbup: :thumbup:

john


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## Foggy

To add a little more, from another thread elsewhere, posted by a good friend of mine who has served in the UK forces for many years



> I was offered a yellow faced Seiko at HMS Heron RNAS Yeovilton, back in 1988/9 ish for Â£30. The watches (amongst others ROLEX MILSUBS) were being backloaded at that time for disposal. So the FAA had some for sure. Other than that I know nothing.
> 
> I did meet a Coast Guard Helecopter pilot some years ago who had one and said it had been issued. I supposed it was issued in the Coast Guard (Not military in the UK but a Govt Agency) and not his previous military service.


Cheers

Foggy


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## SEIKO7A38

LuvWatch said:


> Interestingly out of *310* 7A38 variants on the Seiko database .....


Thanks for that interesting little snippet, Derek. :thumbsup:

I've spent some considerable time over the last few days analysing their 7A38 data. Those '310' variants (the number of SKU Model codes) actually represent something more like *80* real permutations (of watch case / bracelet / finish / face / hands). I've found that one can effectively ignore the extra J1/J8/J9 suffices on the end of the SAAxxxJ SKU codes.

Still not quite sure of their actual significance, but it may just be a different (second) language on the 'Day' wheel. 



LuvWatch said:


> .... not one indicates a yellow dial :huh:
> 
> In fact the model number for the watch in question (7A38-701B = SAA005Jx) indicates it's a brown dial on the database.


That's not the only mistake on that database, Derek. 

They appear to be slightly colour-blind. For reasons best known to themselves, I havent yet managed to find any Seiko 7A38's listed with a 'WHITE' face either (nor Off-White, nor Cream, which both definately exist). Sometimes there's just a dash (-) in the dial face colour field. Other times, the particular SKU Model # (and it's associated B.o.M. / Parts List) for the white-faced version is simply missing. :huh:

There are a number of other obvious ommissions too. Whereas they've got data for the (albeit wrong colour face) 7A38-701B 'Vulcan', there's no mention (at all) of the 7A38-701A (very similar watch with the 'gridlines' on the dial face, and orange or yellow hands).

Still - I can't complain really. Having employed a few temps myself, in my time, to assist with Parts / B.o.M. database clean-ups - I know how easy it is for data to get corrupted. Particularly when data such as this is 25+ years old.



LuvWatch said:


> Fascinating stuff, where's that time machine when you need it :sadwalk:


Very useful tool, all the same.

I've almost finished compiling my own little '7A38' Database (in Excel), which should assist with my future collecting. 

If any other 7A collector is interested, I'd be happy to share it with them.


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## SEIKO7A38

*From 'Vulcan' to 'Stealth' ....*

It seems the Seiko 7A38 may have another somewhat dubious connection with pilots of military delta-wing aircraft. :huh:

Some years ago, a good friend of mine acquired an all-black Seiko 7A38-7290 (the last model in the 7A38 range).

It came with a 'story' attached:



> The watch was previously owned by a Lockheed technician who attended the Blackbird SR-71 display aircraft at the RAF Fairford International Air Tattoo in 1989. These watches had allegedly been secretly issued to USAF Blackbird SR-71 pilots and selected ground crew, the previous year â€" late in 1988. Allegedly, the Seiko 7A38-7290 was specifically selected by the USAF (and personally approved by Clarence 'Kelly' Johnson of Lockheed Skunk Works) for the following reasons:
> 
> The early 'Stealth' design of the lozenge-shaped watch case gave a negligible radar signature to any enemy radar penetrating the SR-71's cockpit.
> 
> The loose fitting links of the B1615F bracelet allowed for expansion in high temperatures when flying at Mach 3.2+.
> 
> The non-reflective Black Chrome plating was virtually invisible (in the pitch dark) to enemy ground observers while flying at 80,000 Feet, and also resistant to JP-7 Aviation Fuel.
> 
> The SR-71 Blackbird was retired by the US government in 1990. Some SR-71 aircrew were subsequently redeployed to the F-117A 'Stealth' fighter, and the USAF 37th Tactical Fighter Wing. It is alleged that more than one Seiko 7A38-7290 later saw action in the 1990-1991 Persian Gulf War on the wrist of an ex-Blackbird pilot.


And if you believe any of the foregoing, I'm open to offers (in excess of Â£1,000) for my pre-owned 7A38-7290 'Blackbird' stealth chrono'.







Slight wear of the bracelet coating where it may have rubbed against the joystick of an F-117A. LOL ! :lol:


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## mel

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> *From 'Vulcan' to 'Stealth' ....*
> 
> The early 'Stealth' design of the *lozenge-shaped watch case gave a negligible radar signature to any enemy radar* penetrating the SR-71's cockpit.
> 
> The loose fitting links of the B1615F bracelet allowed for expansion in high temperatures when flying at Mach 3.2+.
> 
> The *non-reflective Black Chrome plating was virtually invisible (in the pitch dark) to enemy ground observers while flying at 80,000 Feet,* and also resistant to JP-7 Aviation Fuel.


Oooh, nice! didn't know the enemy (Russia?) could detect a piece of metal around 45mm max dimension on radar at 80K feet in the 80's. won't be able to sleep at night now :yes:

and comforting to know that Sergei on the ground couldn't see something reflecting at the same height at night/ Do you think the Stealth pilots were warned not to wear these watches face down on the wrist in case Sergei spotted them through the bottom of the aircraft? h34r:


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## SEIKO7A38

mel said:


> Oooh, nice! didn't know the enemy (Russia?) could detect a piece of metal around 45mm max dimension on radar at 80K feet in the 80's. won't be able to sleep at night now :yes:
> 
> and comforting to know that Sergei on the ground couldn't see something reflecting at the same height at night/ Do you think the Stealth pilots were warned not to wear these watches face down on the wrist in case Sergei spotted them through the bottom of the aircraft? h34r:





SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> And if you believe any of the foregoing ....


Nice to see you actually read it, Mel.   :lol:


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## jasonm

Ive heard that Blackbird pilots had to have black contact lenses that covered the whites of the eyes and were not allowed to smile.....


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## hippo

jasonm said:


> Ive heard that Blackbird pilots had to have black contact lenses that covered the whites of the eyes and were not allowed to smile.....


Wouldn't removing their teeth be safer?? :lol:


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## jasonm

Dont be silly... You wouldnt be able to understand them on the radio if they had no teeth....Honestly you just havent thought it through.....


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## hippo

jasonm said:


> Dont be silly... You wouldnt be able to understand them on the radio if they had no teeth....Honestly you just havent thought it through.....


No, silly me you're right, sorry 

Do you think they would wear stealth under pants??!!


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## nursegladys

hippo said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dont be silly... You wouldnt be able to understand them on the radio if they had no teeth....Honestly you just havent thought it through.....
> 
> 
> 
> No, silly me you're right, sorry
> 
> Do you think they would wear stealth under pants??!!
Click to expand...

yeeess they wore ssshhhhreadies :lol:


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## SEIKO7A38

LuvWatch said:


> Interestingly out of 310 7A38 variants on the Seiko database *not one indicates a yellow dial* :huh:
> 
> In fact the model number for the watch in question *indicates it's a brown dial on the database*.





SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> That's not the only mistake on that database, Derek.
> 
> *They appear to be slightly colour-blind*. For reasons best known to themselves, I havent yet managed to find any Seiko 7A38's listed with a 'WHITE' face either (nor Off-White, nor Cream, which both definately exist). Sometimes there's just a dash (-) in the dial face colour field.


I think I'm possibly getting to the bottom of this 'anomoly'. There appears to be a coding error on Seiko Oceania's database.

If you look up their Bill of Material for the 7A38-701B (SKU model code = SAA005Jx) it shows dial face 704LX*Y*18 as BROWN.

The 'Y' should obviously flag the dial face colour up as 'Yellow'. :huh: But it doesn't.

So I needed to find a genuinely BROWN-faced watch (a 7A38) to confirm my theory.

And there was once a Two-Tone 7A38-7090 issued with a rather nice chocolate brown face.

I happened to see one on eBay in the States back in December last year, but didn't buy it. 

















Looked that one up on Seiko's database (SKU model = SAA036Jx) and it *also* shows 'Y' in the dial face number - 710LX*Y*14 ....

but funnily enough 'BROWN' (here, correctly) in the colour field. Which I guess *doesn't* prove what I was hoping it would. 



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Very useful tool, all the same.
> 
> I've almost finished compiling my own little '7A38' Database (in Excel), which should assist with my future collecting.
> 
> If any other 7A collector is interested, I'd be happy to share it with them.


Still a damned useful resource, all the same, if you can work your way around the various anomolies and errors. :thumbsup:


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## ipcress

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> LuvWatch said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly out of 310 7A38 variants on the Seiko database *not one indicates a yellow dial* :huh:
> 
> In fact the model number for the watch in question *indicates it's a brown dial on the database*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's not the only mistake on that database, Derek.
> 
> *They appear to be slightly colour-blind*. For reasons best known to themselves, I havent yet managed to find any Seiko 7A38's listed with a 'WHITE' face either (nor Off-White, nor Cream, which both definately exist). Sometimes there's just a dash (-) in the dial face colour field.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think I'm possibly getting to the bottom of this 'anomoly'. There appears to be a coding error on Seiko Oceania's database.
> 
> If you look up their Bill of Material for the 7A38-701B (SKU model code = SAA005Jx) it shows dial face 704LX*Y*18 as BROWN.
> 
> The 'Y' should obviously flag the dial face colour up as 'Yellow'. :huh: But it doesn't.
> 
> So I needed to find a genuinely BROWN-faced watch (a 7A38) to confirm my theory.
> 
> And there was once a Two-Tone 7A38-7090 issued with a rather nice chocolate brown face.
> 
> I happened to see one on eBay in the States back in December last year, but didn't buy it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looked that one up on Seiko's database (SKU model = SAA036Jx) and it *also* shows 'Y' in the dial face number - 710LX*Y*14 ....
> 
> but funnily enough 'BROWN' (here, correctly) in the colour field. Which I guess *doesn't* prove what I was hoping it would.
> 
> 
> 
> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very useful tool, all the same.
> 
> I've almost finished compiling my own little '7A38' Database (in Excel), which should assist with my future collecting.
> 
> If any other 7A collector is interested, I'd be happy to share it with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still a damned useful resource, all the same, if you can work your way around the various anomolies and errors. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Hello!

I'm new to this forum having stumbled across it while searching the web for a possible case replacement for my Seiko 7A38-7090. How delightful it is to discover some folks who have a passion for the 7A38 line!

I happen to own the model pictured above with the chocolate brown dial and two tone case. I purchased it in Regina, SK, Canada back in early 1986. Walked into a jewelry store and spotted it on a shelf. The price was $200 Can. and I asked the salesperson why it was so much lower in cost than other Seiko Chronos? She told me it was a new line and a promotional item by Seiko and so I just had to snatch it up. It was my very first Chrono watch but I had to wait a couple of months before I could wear it as my wife immediately snatched it way for my upcoming birthday present. Three days before my birthday I became a parent with the birth of my first daughter and my wife (now a new Mom) let me open my present a little early. A new baby and a new watch - only an horological nut would appreciate this.

Over the years I've had other Chrono watches and a couple of Seiko 5's. What impressed me about the 7A38 is that it was, for awhile at least, the only chrono model I could find with both the day/date, which I find useful. Indeed, it was only in the last few years that some high end Swiss watches had the day/date feature in some chronos and mostly in the non-quartz lines. I'm curious to learn why Seiko did not continue the 7A38 line - perhaps this has been well discussed on this forum.

Anyway, I do have the brown dialed version - so if there is info you need on this model I would be glad to examine the watch and markings to let you know.

The back of the case reads 7A38-7090 and I believe those numbers are next to the six o'clock position on the dial as well.

Nice to meet you all - will check the site now and again to find out what's new.

David J.

Regina, Saskatchewan, CANADA


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## jasonm

> How delightful it is to discover some folks who have a passion for the 7A38 line!


Oh no, dont encourage him!! :cry2:

Welcome to the forum...


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## mrteatime

Reading this thread has been quite investing. Whilst i was at the york air museum at elvington i was taking to one of the victor pilot's that was giving a bit of a talk about the history of it. Afterwards when i was chatting to him about it the subject turned to watches. I asked him if he had ever been issued with one. And to be honest, i was quite suprised about what the RAF Were issued. His first was a rolex, which was lost whilst on an exercise in cyprus (the bracelet snapped, and the watch was lost) but what was more shocking was what he was issued after that. You'll never guess what it was! It was a prototype orange monster! I was in a state of shock! Obviously it was a stealthy monster, and of course, it was bead blasted and had had replacement hands. But what i found strange was that it was worn a an orange rhino! Now who would have thought that eh? I bet then russians could have seen that a mile off! I mean, its silly, aint it? I would have thought it would have been a black nato at the very least.


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## jasonm

:rofl:


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## mach 0.0013137

Shawn, I think I`m going to have a word with you`re Assertive Outreach Team Care Co-ordinator about increasing your medication :doctor: :lol:


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## SEIKO7A38

> Hello!
> 
> Iâ€™m new to this forum having stumbled across it while searching the web for a possible case replacement for my Seiko 7A38-7090. How delightful it is to discover some folks who have a passion for the 7A38 line!


Hello David â€" and welcome to the forum. Youâ€™d be surprised how many other 7Axx enthusiasts there are out there. 

However we tend to post across a few different watch forums, besides this, and the obvious Seiko/Citizen-dedicated one.



> I happen to own the model pictured above with the chocolate brown dial and two tone case. I purchased it in Regina, SK, Canada back in early 1986. Walked into a jewelry store and spotted it on a shelf. The price was $200 Can. and I asked the salesperson why it was so much lower in cost than other Seiko Chronos? She told me it was a new line and a promotional item by Seiko and so I just had to snatch it up. It was my very first Chrono watch but I had to wait a couple of months before I could wear it as my wife immediately snatched it way for my upcoming birthday present. Three days before my birthday I became a parent with the birth of my first daughter and my wife (now a new Mom) let me open my present a little early. A new baby and a new watch - only an horological nut would appreciate this.


You wonâ€™t find much reference to the 7A38-7090 on the â€˜Net.

The only one that crops up regularly in searches (on the Seiko-dedicated forum) is Roland Kampâ€™s pristine stainless and white-faced example:










There is a gallery of larger photos of it here: http://www.csce.uark.edu/~jgauch/photos/di...7090/index.html

That, and your chocolate-faced two-tone were the only two models of 7A38-7090 (SAA035J and SAA036J) .

There is also a black chrome-plated (with gold-plated bezel and buttons) version - _to all intents and purposes, the same watch_, one of which cropped up on eBay in January this year, but that is designated a 7A38-7100 (SAA038J).












> Over the years I've had other Chrono watches and a couple of Seiko 5's. What impressed me about the 7A38 is that it was, for awhile at least, the only chrono model I could find with both the day/date, which I find useful. Indeed, it was only in the last few years that some high end Swiss watches had the day/date feature in some chronos and mostly in the non-quartz lines. I'm curious to learn why Seiko did not continue the 7A38 line - perhaps this has been well discussed on this forum.


Iâ€™m not sure that it has been discussed anywhere before. 

I would surmise that it was down to (manufacturing) cost and complexity â€" they just werenâ€™t economic / profitable enough to continue in production. Compare the 7A38â€™s impressive specification (_for a quartz chronograph_): 15 Jewels; 4 stepper motors; All-metal gear train, rate adjustable (in 0.26 sec/day steps) to other Seiko calibres. For example the then concurrent 7T32 Alarm Chronoâ€™ â€" twice as many model variants, and double the production life span !



ipcress said:


> Anyway, I do have the brown dialed version - so if there is info you need on this model I would be glad to examine the watch and markings to let you know.


Thanks for your kind offer David.

You can find virtually any parts information you need for _almost all_ the 7A38 variants using Seiko (Oceania) Australiaâ€™s database search:

http://service.seiko.com.au/pls/seiko/f?p=...447918025038464

Those few models which arenâ€™t listed on there are covered (_to varying extents_) on Jules Borelâ€™s website.



ipcress said:


> The back of the case reads 7A38-7090 and I believe those numbers are next to the six o'clock position on the dial as well.


Actually, if you look closely, I think youâ€™ll find the dial is marked 7A38 and *710L* (partial face # designator). 



ipcress said:


> Nice to meet you all - will check the site now and again to find out what's new.


Next time you come back, try searching this (_and other_) forum sections using â€˜7A38â€™ in the search field.

If youâ€™re still interested in a â€˜case replacementâ€™ I may be able to help you in that direction too.


----------



## ipcress

Thank you for your post and the links. I've had a quick browse and images info are wonderful. I'm developing a deeper appreciation for the watch I have!

Mr. Kamp's watch brings back fond memories - for shortly after I bought my own version (brown dial) I thought of buying the white dialed version for my brother. I kept visiting the jewelry store in the hopes of finding it discounted (hence in my budget) but no luck. Back in the late 1980's there were a few around, but I never did make the purchase. Such is life.

Thank you too, for the possibility of finding a case replacement. Many years ago (in my reckless period) the metal band on my watch stretched and came into disrepair. I did not seek a replacement as a jeweler mentioned that Seiko bracelets are expensive and hard to find (please remember this is before the Internet). Trusting this advice, I did the next best thing and tried to improvise a metal band to the case, but it never quite looked right. One day in a fit of pure insanity I ground out the gap where the bracelet meets the case and left enough metal to serve as lugs to hold a leather strap. My jeweler friend was able to drill the fine holes on the lung ends to fit the pins (well, sort of - the drilled holes are kinda large.) The result was a very different looking watch, one which did not have the '70 -80's feel and look. It looked conservatively modern. Except for the large pin holes in the side profile of the watch, I thought it looked pretty decent.

I wore this for many years and naturally scratches occurred on the crystal, which I tried to have my jeweler buff out. In turn this process ground off some of the gold plating on the bezel. The watch case started looking old and worn. It wasn't until recently that I began to think that replacement cases might be available somewhere.

Something I would like to fess up to - an abomination to all 7A38 fans I'm sure but in my mind speaks well of the watch movement itself. When I was doing the grinding of the case to widen the lug space _I did not remove the movement_







. The watch suffered intense vibration and heat through the ordeal  , and yet, I never had any problem whatsoever with the module in the many years that followed. I'd never think of doing this again - but perhaps it is a testimony to the robustness of the 7A38!


----------



## SEIKO7A38

ipcress said:


> Thank you too, for the possibility of finding a case replacement.


David,

From the rest of your post it sounds like you actually need a bit more than just a new watch case ....

Like a new bracelet; bezel; crystal, etc..

Probably best to keep an eye open on eBay for a 'Sample Case' or a non-runner to transfer your dial and movement into.

That 710L dial (without Tachymeter chapter ring) *might* also fit into one of the other smaller diameter 7A38 cases -

such as the 7A38-7120 or -7130. They're certainly more common than the 7A38-7090 and -7100. Food for thought.


----------



## ipcress

From the rest of your post it sounds like you actually need a bit more than just a new watch case ....

Like a new bracelet; bezel; crystal, etc..

Yes, no doubt I would need the whole package to restore the watch to look like the day it was purchased. I've grown to like the leather strap.

My watch in the current state.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

ipcress said:


> .... I ground out the gap where the bracelet meets the case and left enough metal to serve as lugs to hold a leather strap.
> 
> My jeweler friend was able to drill the fine holes on the lug ends to fit the pins ....


I'll admit I was having horrible visions, when I read that, David.











ipcress said:


> .... I've grown to like the leather strap. My watch in the current state.


But although it would now definately be classed as 'Franken' - it looks pretty good to me, as is. :thumbsup:

Could obviously do with the bezel - and possibly the pushers re-plating, though.


----------



## ipcress

But although it would now definately be classed as 'Franken' - it looks pretty good to me, as is. :thumbsup:

:lol: Yes, absolutely, a "Franken" it is! But dependable and accurate all the same for nearly 24 years. Mind you it has its less noble side in profile...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2517/373083...56b618d.jpg?v=0

So best keep it face up...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2661/372878...082bc1d.jpg?v=0

Or wear a little dressier model (Seiko 6M15-7038)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3519/373006...da13793e2_m.jpg

I'll keep a lookout for the case possibilites you mentioned. Thanks!

_(hummm... don't know why my pictures did not show on the preview?_ :blink:


----------



## ipcress

ipcress said:


> But although it would now definately be classed as 'Franken' - it looks pretty good to me, as is. :thumbsup:
> 
> :lol: Yes, absolutely, a "Franken" it is! But dependable and accurate all the same for nearly 24 years. Mind you it has its less noble side in profile...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So best keep it face up...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or wear a little dressier model (Seiko 6M15-7038)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll keep a lookout for the case possibilites you mentioned. Thanks!
> 
> Figured it out... I pasted things in the wrong place...


----------



## SEIKO7A38

ipcress said:


> I'll keep a lookout for the case possibilites you mentioned. Thanks!


David,

I could post a few photos of 7A38-7120's and -7130's, to give you some idea of the possibilities, but ....

Rather than keep adding to this thread (_to certain member's annoyance_) it's probably best if 'we take it offline'.

As I can't PM you, because you haven't reached the 50 post mark yet,

and I'm not about to post my own email address in the thread ....

Perhaps you could try contacting me through FlickrMail:

http://www.flickr.com/people/p4replica/



ipcress said:


> _(hummm... don't know why my pictures did not show on the preview?_ :blink:
> 
> Figured it out... I pasted things in the wrong place...


Think it might be something to do with using 'url' tags instead of 'img'. 

With Flickr hosted images you have to insert the 'img' tags, but using Photobucket hosting, they are automatically included.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Perhaps you could try contacting me through FlickrMail ....


You have email, by the way, David. 

Another to follow, once I've had a coffee break.


----------



## gregory

Although my knowledge on Seiko watches is 100% nil, may I just say that as a neutral I find this thread fascinating!!

Top stats, facts and figures and a geekdom which I can only bow down and pay homage to!!!

Keep it going... 

** Just thought I'd shove my two penn'orth in there... **


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> There has also been a heckuva lot of discussion about them on other watch forums recently: MWF; SCWF and TZ-UK.
> 
> Unfortunately, RLT forum rules prevent me from posting links to the relevant threads.


I think the 'Vulcan' frenzy is about to start all over again. 

Earlier today, a newbie going under the username of 'Robb' posted on MWF that he had *TWO* of them !! 

Can't post a direct (functioning) link, due to RLT forum rules.  So go find the thread for yourself. :tongue1:

Hint: *First Post, Seiko "Vulcan"* ....There's some nice photos of his two (one's an 'absolute minter') in it. :thumbsup:


----------



## lambstew

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> There has also been a heckuva lot of discussion about them on other watch forums recently: MWF; SCWF and TZ-UK.
> 
> Unfortunately, RLT forum rules prevent me from posting links to the relevant threads.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the 'Vulcan' frenzy is about to start all over again.
> 
> Earlier today, a newbie going under the username of 'Robb' posted on MWF that he had *TWO* of them !!
> 
> Can't post a direct (functioning) link, due to RLT forum rules.  So go find the thread for yourself. :tongue1:
> 
> Hint: *First Post, Seiko "Vulcan"* ....There's some nice photos of his two (one's an 'absolute minter') in it. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

..and more proof that there was "some" kind of MOD connection with these..here is a sample of what he said concerning the simple packaging which smells very much like a plain military thing to me..

"Thanks for the warm welcome, I can confirm neither watch has the broad arrow mark on the back, a fact that didn't register with me at all. I can also confirm the new one I bought was just in a small plain cardboard box, certainly not what you would expect from a civilian watch where even a Â£10 Casio will come in a nice plastic box complete with instructions. Like I say until yesterday these were just 2 nice watches that used to be my daily wear until I treated myself to a titanium IWC GST Chrono which then became my daily watch (ironically it would appear that 2 quartz watches are now worth more than my automatic Swiss watch!) I have to say the Seikos were terrible for plucking the hairs out of your wrist with the bracelet but I have never had watches as accurate, literally seconds between time changes from GMT to BST. I would love to post photo's but can't figure out how, any help gratefully received! One more thing that would suggest a military background to these watches is the fact that the used one had obviously had quite a hard life compared to how I look after my watches."


----------



## SEIKO7A38

lambstew said:


> ...and more proof that there was *"some" kind* of MOD connection with these.
> 
> here is a sample of what he said concerning the simple packaging which smells very much like a plain military thing to me.


And a *VERY SPURIOUS *connection - *if any kind*, methinks !! 



> Thanks for the warm welcome, I can confirm *neither watch has the broad arrow mark on the back*, a fact that didn't register with me at all. I can also confirm the new one I bought was just in a *small plain cardboard box* ....


Excuse me ? :huh: So no broad arrow stamp, nor NSN date stamps on the watch. Just like all the other 7A38-701B 'Vulcans'. 

And 'a small *plain* cardboard box' - with no mention (_heaven forbid_) of waxed paper.

And no 'military release' papers supplied with the watch either ? :huh:



> One more thing that would suggest a military background to these watches is the fact that the used one had obviously had quite a hard life compared to how I look after my watches.


With respect - what an absolute load of tosh !! Any Seiko or other make chrono' with an enamelled / silk screen printed external bezel like the 7A38-701x series was fitted with, is going to look 'quite secondhand' after a very short time of normal (careless) wear and tear. The original Z1118 bracelets which they were fitted with were notoriously fragile (for such a heavy watch case) and stretched very easily. Hence the slightly incorrect non-standard replacement (I think it's a B1688) Seiko bracelet that 'Robb' has had fitted on his beater 7A38-701B.

I've seen dozens of the 'brother and sister model' Seiko 7A38-7010's and 7A38-701A's on eBay in the last 6 months.

All of them (_bar the rather nice 7A38-7010 which I bought recently_) looked to be in a similar or worse condition.

Does that instantly give them a military background ? :huh: I don't think so !! :lol:

Let's just add in another part of Robb's post that you conveniently didn't bother to copy and paste:



> .... so I went down to Anchor Surplus in Ripley, Derbyshire to see if they had any. This was 18 years ago, I wasn't a collector and *knew nothing about watches*, but if my memory serves me right there were four Seiko chronographs on that day. 3 had black faces and 1 yellow, all were used and none had bracelets. *So I bought the yellow faced one,* ....


I guess Anchor Supplies in Ripley must have been 'something of a Mecca' for military watch collectors.

I had a quick look at their website - Ooh, er .... they've got *STRONG* links to eBay nowadays. :









A couple of quotes from it:



> Guaranteed Genuine Ex-Ministry
> 
> Clocks, Watches and Chronographs
> 
> We carry a large and varied stock of Ex-Ministry Clocks, Watches and Chronographs
> 
> *as well as our our range of Quartz Watches... * the OCEAN MASTER and CHRONOMASTER Ranges.
> 
> Examples of ALL the above types can be found on the following pages.


I reckon the guy behind the counter at Anchor Supplies is (and was back then in 1991) 'a bit' of a watch buff. 

Not averse to buying job lots of obsolete Citizen and Seiko watches, and putting them in 'small plain cardboard boxes'. :blink:

He must have seen 'Robb' (and a few other military watch collectors) coming. 

You might want to check this out too: http://www.anchorsupplies.com/newhorodept.htm


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> I guess Anchor Supplies in Ripley must have been 'something of a Mecca' for military watch collectors.
> 
> I had a quick look at their website - Ooh, er .... they've got *STRONG* links to eBay nowadays. :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of quotes from it:


And guess what else I found, here ? :huh:



> Sometimes also available as the Yellow Face variety which was a special issue for Vulcan Flight Crew...
> 
> but a substantially higher cost. If you would like a "Yellow Face" please email us... we will add you to our waiting list.
> 
> NOTE: we have seen only TWO Yellow faced Seiko "Vulcan" watches in the past 5 years...
> 
> both were used and were individually sold
> 
> in excess of Â£1000 each !!!
> 
> We are reliably informed that a Seiko Vulcan yellow Face fetched over $2600 in eBay USA recently.
> 
> If you would like to purchase one of these sought after watches please email us.


Could that possibly be where the Vulcan myth originally stems from ? :huh: I wonder.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> I've seen dozens of the 'brother and sister model' Seiko 7A38-7010's and 7A38-701A's on eBay in the last 6 months.


Of course, all three versions, including the yellow-faced 7A38-701B were available to be purchased by us mere 'civilians':










I recently popped into my local Seiko dealer, where I'd bought by own stainless black-faced 7A38-7270, back in 1989.

I actually went in there to see if they still had any old Seiko catalogues from '83-89 gathering dust on a shelf anywhere.

The owner remembered having a yellow-faced 7A38-701B in stock. Absolutely nobody was interested in it at the time.

And, as I suspected - it came in the regular Seiko (UK) quartz presentation box - not a plain cardboard box, either. :lol:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

London luke said:


> My Father flew Vulcans at RAF Scampton 40 years ago. And he never had a "yellow" Seiko. In fact he had a OMEGA.


Somewhat 'off topic', as it seems to be general concensus that the 7A38 'Vulcan' myth has been well and truly 'exploded' ....

But last Wednesday, there was an excellent little documentary on Britain's 'V-Bomber' force (Victor, Valiant and Vulcan) ....

on Channel 4, the first programme in their new series entitled: Engineering Britain's Superweapons.

It's available to watch on 4OD for the next 26 days:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/enginee...ons/4od#2929720

Well worth a look for the contemporary Vulcan footage - including it's first impressive demo at Farnborough in 1955.

Also includes footage of the long-distance bombing raids (an 8000 mile round trip) on the Falklands Islands in 1982.

Lots of 'in-cockpit' shots, with a few watches to spot, too. Nothing looking vaguely like a Seiko (_of any kind_) that I saw.


----------



## bry1975

Has anyone asked James K about the Vulcan Seikos?


----------



## SEIKO7A38

bry1975 said:


> Has anyone asked James K about the Vulcan Seikos?


Do you mean 'James K', or James *M*(anning), Bry ? :huh: (the K and M keys are next to each other on the keyboard  )

See: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=...amp;btnG=Search


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> .... 'Robb' posted on MWF that he had *TWO* of them !!
> 
> Can't post a direct (functioning) link, due to RLT forum rules.  So go find the thread for yourself. :tongue1:
> 
> Hint: *First Post, Seiko "Vulcan"* ....There's some nice photos of his two (one's an 'absolute minter') in it. :thumbsup:


The second post in that (Seiko 7A38-701B) 'Vulcan' thread on MWF by 'Viktoria' included this sentence:



> There is good information on this watch *page 628* in *Konrad Knirim* book *British Military Timepieces*.


Does anyone have that book, and could quote what it states - or better still, post a scan or photo of the relevant page ? :huh:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> .... *page 628* in *Konrad Knirim* book *British Military Timepieces*.
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have that book, and could quote what it states - or better still, post a scan or photo of the relevant page ? :huh:
Click to expand...

I just telephoned Konrad Knirim and had a very pleasant and enlightening conversation with him.

He understands and speaks good English :thumbsup: (unlike my utterly hopeless efforts at German). 

Konrad said that the page in his book merely states there is an alleged 'Vulcan' connection ....

.... and because of that he felt that the watch deserved a mention in his volume. Nothing more.

Danke und Viele GrÃ¼ÃŸe von England, Konrad.


----------



## bry1975

Now now James K the military dude on the well known military forum!

Some useful german:-

GroÃŸbritannien - Great Britsin

Thunfisch - Tuna fish

:lol:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> I think the 'Vulcan' frenzy is about to start all over again.


Prophetic ? :huh: Or what ? 

See: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=44845


----------



## brgkster

in my grimy paw at the moment is a white dialed sekio quartz chrono without a bracelet.

the back reads 7a38 - 728a [ab]

japan t l ?

and the no. 857231

i got this about 97 98 ? as part of a job lot, i have never worn it, when i got it i had the battery replaced it worked for how long i dont know, i was rooting thro the watch drawer earlier today and resurected it, the back and the glass ? are scratched, your opinions please gents, i am not a collector, i am a magpie, a watchaholic, i often buy a watch for the sake of buying it.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

ipcress said:


> How delightful it is to discover some folks who have a passion for the 7A38 line!





jasonm said:


> Oh no, donâ€™t encourage him!! :cry2:





gregory said:


> Keep it going...





brgkster said:


> .... your opinions please gents ....


Looks like you've been out-voted, Jason.











brgkster said:


> in my grimy paw at the moment is a white dialed sekio quartz chrono without a bracelet.
> 
> the back reads 7A38 - 728A [ab]


O.K.. So we're talking about one of these. Right ? (here shown a nice example that sold on eBay in the States in March this year):


----------



## SEIKO7A38

brgkster said:


> in my grimy paw at the moment is a white dialed sekio quartz chrono without a bracelet.
> 
> the back reads 7a38 - 728a [ab]
> 
> japan t l ?
> 
> and the no. 857231
> 
> i got this about 97 98 ? as part of a job lot, i have never worn it, when i got it i had the battery replaced it worked for how long i dont know, i was rooting thro the watch drawer earlier today and resurected it, the back and the glass ? are scratched, your opinions please gents, i am not a collector, i am a magpie, a watchaholic, i often buy a watch for the sake of buying it.


This is a fairly common later variant of the 7A38. Also seen with the case-back stamped as 7A38-7289. A bit dressy IMHO.

It was available as Seiko SKU model codes SAA110J (for the -7289) and SAA122J for (for the -728A). List price was $325.

They crop up fairly regularly on eBay. Prices for second-hand seem to run in the $50-150 range, dependant on condition.

I bought my 7A38-7289 in December last year - one of the first 7A38's that started my growing collection.

It came from eBay in the States, and was new, unworn in it's box with papers and tags. I paid $169 + shipping for it.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

brgkster said:


> in my grimy paw at the moment is a white dialed sekio quartz chrono *without a bracelet*.
> 
> the back reads 7a38 - 728a [ab]
> 
> .... your opinions please gents ....


And therein lies your problem. 

The Two-tone 7A38-7289 and -728A (_and another Silver-Grey faced Two-Tone variant of 7A38-7280 and -728B_)

See: http://members.cox.net/watches-2/7A38_7280.html (_for photos of that variant_) ....

Use the (Two-Tone) B1627C bracelet. Like the B1627S (plain Stainless) and the B1627G (gold plated) versions ....

They are *all* stamped *B1627-E* on the inside near the lug fixing tube (regardless of finish).

NOS replacement bracelets for these watches are pretty hard to come by.

I found one on eBay in the States a couple of months ago - as a 'Buy-it-Now'.

It was rather expensive - more than I'd paid for some 'beater' 7A38's, but I didn't hesitate to hit the button.





































And .... before you ask - Sorry, it's not for sale. It's going towards the Two-Tone 7A38-7280 that I'm building up from parts.

The original B1627x bracelets themselves, on any second-hand watches seen on eBay can also be slightly 'problematic'.

As you can see from the photos above, the clasp is different to the 'adjustable multi-hole' SQ clasps seen on earlier 7A38's.

Adjustment on the B1627-E bracelet is provided by multiple removeable adjustment links.

As new, they came fitted with 10 - giving an overall (fitted) wrist length of 8". Remove 2 links and you're down to 7Â½".

Remove another 2 links and you're down to 7". I've found it pays to ask any eBay seller how many links a bracelet has left.

You can fit one of the 'old style' 30mm or 25mm SQ clasps to this bracelet, to compensate for missing adjustment links. 

Not 'techically correct', but it works (and is also a damned sight more comfortable, because it positively locates the Z-fold).

Because of the way the B1627x bracelet fits the 7a38-728x watch-case (see photos above, and look at your own watch),

With those two dummy first links engaging in the cut-outs in the watch case, there isn't really any other bracelet that will fit.

I have seen some horrible botched attempts at using other bracelets, though.

Take a look at this monstrous abortion. Currently listed on eBay in the States. :yucky:










You could of course, just fit a 20mm leather strap, but again, it might look odd with those cut-outs in the watch-case.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

brgkster said:


> in my grimy paw at the moment is a white dialed sekio quartz chrono without a bracelet.
> 
> the back reads 7a38 - 728a [ab]
> 
> *the back and the glass ? are scratched*, your opinions please gents ....


These two problems are solved a little more easily. 

Take off the case-back, carefully, using a 3-Prong 'Jaxa type' case-back removal tool ....

and polish it either by flatting it on a sheet of plate glass with 'Wet and Dry' paper .....

Or chuck it up in a Dremel Moto-Tool (or mini-lathe), as I do and re-finish it, being careful not to obliterate the stampings.

The scratched crystal problem is also relatively easy to solve.

Read this very helpful article carefully: http://www.crescent-pc.com/watchfetish/7aX8/index.htm

Buy yourself a cheap crystal press (available on eBay for around 20 Quid).

You'll need a replacement crystal, obviously.

The one used on the 7A38-728x range (and a good number of other 7A38-xxxx models) is 31.0mm Ã˜ and 1.5mm thick.

The original Seiko Hardlex crystal part number was *310W62JN01*. Unfortunately these are obsolete and no longer available.

However, you can still get an alternative Seiko part (with identical dimensions) *310W62GN00* from Jules Borel in the States.

They cost around $11.00. Alternatively ....

The following (non-Seiko) replacement crystals (same dimensions) are available from Cousins UK Material House:

F150CMH310 - Cousins' Mineral Glass @ Â£0.45 + VAT each

MSM310 - Sternkreuz - Hardened @ @ Â£1.50 + VAT each

SRM310 - Sternkreuz - Sapphire @ Â£19.45 + VAT each (bit of an 'over-kill' that one )

Hope that helps.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> This is a fairly common later variant of the 7A38.
> 
> They crop up fairly regularly on eBay.


Apart from that (_grossly over-priced_) monstrosity on the wrong bracelet, in post #62 ....

.... there is actually another White-faced Two-Tone Seiko 7A38-728x currently listed on eBay.

It's hard to tell exactly what condition it's in from the extremely poor listing photograph. 

It's not particularly well-described, and unless you knew *exactly* what you were looking at ....










Well, see what I mean ?


----------



## brgkster

me thinks i have a bracelet that will suit and fit some where, for me to work on a watch is impossible due to health reasons, i may eventually trade it for something or swap it, as the moment it is back in the drawer, out of sight out of mind.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

brgkster said:


> i may eventually trade it for something or swap it, as the moment it is back in the drawer, out of sight out of mind.


Bit of a waste of time my posting all that information then. :sadwalk:


----------



## brgkster

no not really now i know quite a bit about it, for which i am quite gratefull, and if i do decide to part with it i will send it to you for apprasial , so you can have first dibs on it if you wish.


----------



## xingxing

hehe. i never bought some thing from ebay .

i dont know it is good or no good .

I am interesting in watches . i gonna do this kind of business .. .. i have a citizen watch , i bought it in HK.


----------



## brgkster

there appears to be a mint one over on wus. seller is based in europe, asking 300 euro.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

brgkster said:


> there appears to be a mint one over on wus. seller is based in europe, *asking 300 euro*.





SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> I bought my 7A38-7289 in December last year - one of the first 7A38's that started my growing collection.
> 
> It came from eBay in the States, and was new, unworn in it's box with papers and tags. I paid $169 + shipping for it.


Are you sure that's the same model ?? 

The last two 7A38-7289's which I've seen for sale, recently, on other US forums (_as opposed to eBay_) were ....

One in average / worn condition, on SCWF in April, sold for $79:










and one in very good condition of PMWF in February, sold for $125:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

brgkster said:


> there *appears* to be a mint one over on wus. seller is based in europe, *asking 300 euro*.


Edit: I've searched WuS, in their 'High End Quartz'; Seiko and 'For Sale' sections ....

.... and I'm blowed if I can see it, anywhere on there. :blink: Please can you PM me a link. Thanks.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

brgkster said:


> there *appears* to be a mint one over on wus. seller is based in europe, asking 300 euro.


Thanks for emailing me the link. :thumbsup:

However, that 'minter' is nothing like the 7A38-7289/-728A we were discussing ....

It's a Stainless white-faced *7A28*-7020. A somewhat different 7A model.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a fairly common later variant of the 7A38. They crop up fairly regularly on eBay.
> 
> 
> 
> .... there is actually another White-faced Two-Tone Seiko 7A38-728x currently listed on eBay.
> 
> It's hard to tell exactly what condition it's in from the extremely poor listing photograph.
> 
> It's not particularly well-described, and unless you knew *exactly* what you were looking at ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, see what I mean ?
Click to expand...

Postscript: That *7A38-728A* on eBay went for a mere Â£30.50 (+postage). 

See: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=220459245478


----------



## Guest

i dont know if this will be of interest but on an ex mod supplies site i found this...

"SEIKO "Pilots" Military issue Quartz wrist watch

What a GEM of a watch !

This type are frequently referred to as "Pilots" watches when in fact we have been informed

that they are only issued to "fast jet navigators".. (Tornado Navigators of the RAF).

Fitted with Quartz "scratch resistant glass" the "Pilots" watch features a stop watch

together with a rugged and reliable design.

Supplied FULLY SERVICED with 12 months Warranty

Now VERY RARE... taken out of Service August 2005

the RAF Tornado Squadrons now being disbanded.

We also receive the naval version from time to time...for submariners... with Date.. without Luminious points

Sometimes also available as the Yellow Face variety which was a special issue for Vulcan Flight Crew...

but a substantially higher cost. If you would like a "Yellow Face" please email us... we will add you to our waiting list.

NOTE: we have seen only TWO Yellow faced Seiko "Vulcan" watches in the past 5 years...

both were used and were individually sold

in excess of Â£1000 each !!!

We are reliably informed that a Seiko Vulcan yellow Face fetched over $2600 in eBay USA recently.

If you would like to purchase one of these sought after watches please email us."


----------



## SEIKO7A38

avidfan said:


> i dont know if this will be of interest but on an ex mod supplies site i found this...
> 
> Sometimes also available as the Yellow Face variety which was a special issue for Vulcan Flight Crew...
> 
> but a substantially higher cost. If you would like a "Yellow Face" please email us... we will add you to our waiting list.
> 
> NOTE: we have seen only TWO Yellow faced Seiko "Vulcan" watches in the past 5 years...
> 
> both were used and were individually sold in excess of Â£1000 each !!!
> 
> We are reliably informed that a Seiko Vulcan yellow Face fetched over $2600 in eBay USA recently.
> 
> If you would like to purchase one of these sought after watches please email us."


Ahem. :huh: Re-post !! :lol:

See my posts #49 and #50 on the previous page: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?s...st&p=465904


----------



## Guest

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> avidfan said:
> 
> 
> 
> i dont know if this will be of interest but on an ex mod supplies site i found this...
> 
> Sometimes also available as the Yellow Face variety which was a special issue for Vulcan Flight Crew...
> 
> but a substantially higher cost. If you would like a "Yellow Face" please email us... we will add you to our waiting list.
> 
> NOTE: we have seen only TWO Yellow faced Seiko "Vulcan" watches in the past 5 years...
> 
> both were used and were individually sold in excess of Â£1000 each !!!
> 
> We are reliably informed that a Seiko Vulcan yellow Face fetched over $2600 in eBay USA recently.
> 
> If you would like to purchase one of these sought after watches please email us."
> 
> 
> 
> Ahem. :huh: Re-post !! :lol:
> 
> See my posts #49 and #50 on the previous page: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?s...st&p=465904
Click to expand...

sorry! the kids have been nagging me and ive not been able to concentrate for 2 weeks-just another 5 to go!


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Well, I guess itâ€™s about time I 'wrapped up' this thread. 

But it's going to take a few more posts, yet, to say what I need to, so a certain person will have to bear with me.











jasonm said:


> Oh no, donâ€™t encourage him!! :cry2:


Besides, I donâ€™t need *any* encouragement (_in the face of adversity_). :lol:

But before I go any further, Iâ€™d like to thank Derek ('LuvWatch') :thumbsup: once again, for his post:



LuvWatch said:


> Interestingly out of 310 7A38 variants on the Seiko database not one indicates a yellow dial :huh:
> 
> In fact the model number for the watch in question indicates it's a brown dial on the database.
> 
> Fascinating stuff, where's that time machine when you need it :sadwalk:
> 
> Derek


.... and for pointing me in the right direction (of Seiko Oceaniaâ€™s) database:

http://service.seiko.com.au/pls/seiko/f?p=...385306864894252

.... and unwittingly, onward towards _Anorak-Level_ Seiko 7A38 *WIS*dom.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

I've spent untold hours over the last couple of months, interrogating Seiko's database for information on 7A38's. :huh:

My original intention (which I finally succeeded in completing last week) was to build for myself an Access / Excel database ....

.... of *all* the 7A38 model codes and variations, mostly to assist me with (_further_) building up my 7A38 collection in the future. And also to help prevent myself from inadvertently buying any more 7A38 'Franken' creations, as I did earlier this year. :angry:

Copying and pasting all Seiko's data (and compiling reams of useful part number information along the way) was the easy part. Making some sense of those *310* lines of data (and the parts lists beneath them) that Derek referred to, is what took rather more effort. Granted â€" it *is* 25 year old data, and Yes, there are duplications; errors and some omissions from it (some are obvious data entry 'typos'). Again, adding in any missing product codes (e.g. the 7A38-701A) from other sources (such as Jules Borelâ€™s database) was relatively easy. As was working out which couple of versions should _correctly_ have Yellow (the 7A38-701B) and Brown (the 7A38-7090 Two-Tone) faces. 

What took me a considerable time to work out, was which versions had White faces and which were actually Silver. :blink:

In case youâ€™re wondering what Iâ€™m rambling on about, check out pages 2 and 3 of this thread from post #22 onwards:



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> That's not the only mistake on that database, Derek.
> 
> They appear to be slightly colour-blind. For reasons best known to themselves, *I haven't yet managed to find any Seiko 7A38's listed with a 'WHITE' face either (nor Off-White, nor Cream, which both definitely exist).* Sometimes there's just a dash (-) in the dial face colour field. Other times, the particular SKU Model # (and it's associated B.o.M. / Parts List) * for the white-faced version is simply missing*. :huh:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

What Derek failed to state in his post:



LuvWatch said:


> Interestingly out of 310 7A38 variants on the Seiko database not one indicates a yellow dial :huh:


However .... was that nor did any single 7A38 on Seiko's database indicate having a *White* dial face, either. :huh:

I went back and double-checked it (_on more than one occasion_).

In fact, the easiest way to do it, is to run a search on just '7A38' in the Calibre field, and then sort the result on 'Dial Colour'.

Of the 310 lines in the Seiko search result, 7A38's are shown with the following dial face colours:

BLACK (quite a few - as would be expected).

BLUE (one variant of 7A38-706A has a VERY Dark Blue face â€" which almost appears black).

BROWN (shown incorrectly against the 7A38-701B, but NOT against the Two-Tone 7A38-7090).

GOLD (again, quite a few, as expected).

GRAY (American spelling, rather than 'Grey' â€" and this term also appears to cover 'a multitude of hues').

SILVER (Far more than you might expect â€" given that 'GRAY' versions of the same watch also appear to exist).

But ZERO showing a 'WHITE' dial colour, and approximately 100 of those 310 lines with just a dash (-) in the colour field.

At first, I had hoped that those 7A38 product codes with a dash (-) might have been the missing white-faced versions.

Not quite as simple as that !

Yes, some of them are definitely White, Off-White and Cream, but there were other 'unspecified' colour dials amongst them.

After I'd copied the 310 lines of 7A38 product data from Seiko's database into my Excel spreadsheet, and filled in as many of the blank dial face colour fields as I could, (by applying common sense and my limited product knowledge), initially, I started adding in extra 'dummy' lines of my own, to cover any known 'missing' white-faced variants.

I haven't done this in complete isolation, and have 'asked the question' a couple of times on the Seiko-Citizen forum. In one thread on there, back in June, we were discussing dial face colours of the 'dressy' 7A38-726x range â€" their 718L dial face being particularly attractive, and most commonly seen in White. One of the posters wrote:



> *Hi Paul, having had a quick look, I can confirm your silver/white connection ....*
> 
> I have a white-faced, two-tone on original tan white stitched leather (as does someone else, who emailed me recently about the strap). The code number is 7A38-726A and the database shows four of these, all with silver dials. So at least one of those (or another they don't know about?) should be a white dial.


Now, the white dials on the 7A38-726xâ€™s are most definitely a plain white background (with ornate gold detailing). Whereas, in contrast, there exist a couple of other 7A38 models, such as the plain Stainless 7A38 -7090, -7190 and â€"7270 variants, where the finish of the white dial face is a metallic, almost pearlescent white, which could, _to really stretch a point_, possibly deserve to be called 'Silver' rather than 'White'. Plus there were all those other 'unaccounted for' off-white and distinctly cream-coloured faced versions missing from Seikoâ€™s database too.

I was already thinking to myself "what if 'Silver' really means 'White' on Seiko's database ?" (as in jewellers' terminology). :huh:

Something else that I'd noticed, that in adding 'dummy' product lines into my Excel spreadsheet to cover the 'missing' white-faced versions, was that I was left with an inordinate number of both 'Silver' and 'Gray' faced versions of some models. :blink:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

In parallel with building up my case-back marking / product code Excel database, I'd also been collecting other 7A38 data, and ammassed well over a 1000 photos of 7A38's, since I started collecting the watches. A few of these photos - of NOS watches offered for sale, (and also on the reverse of sample cases) show the hang tags with the original SAAxxx product codes (two of them being white-faced variants, which was a helpful start).

I'd also been building up another separate database of 7A38 part number information. Mostly watch-case part numbers - to help me source any parts that I might need for any cosmetic restorations. These included bezels, crystals, push-buttons and crowns, gaskets and dial rings. I'd already included the dial face and bracelet part numbers on my 'master' spreadsheet. Again, Seikoâ€™s database was very useful, but I found that their part descriptions were often too short, and lacking information. On the other hand, Jules Borel have appear to have added additional information to many of their Seiko part descriptions, including the correct colours of many of the dial rings.

For instance, I know that I can say with 99% certainty that the following: 84311020, 84311026, 84311029, 84320844 and 84313702 are all Tachymeter dial rings or spacers moulded in cream or white plastic. Here's where I applied a little science (and logic) instead of just holding a lightly-moistened finger aloft. Bearing in mind that on the majority of 7A38â€™s (apart from a couple of variants where there is a deliberate contrast), nine times out of 10, the colour of the Tachymeter dial ring matches the colour of the dial face. Right ? So I took those 'known colour' dial rings and fed them back into Seiko's database, using a reverse part number look-up (i.e. asking 'where used ?'). Surprise, surprise .... the majority of these White dial rings were shown used on 7A38 models with 'Silver' faces. Erm, I think not, somehow. 

Case proven, Mâ€™Lud ! B)

As a further 'sanity check', I also took the part numbers of known silver-painted (grey plastic) dial rings, such as 84311584, 84311024, 84311027, etc., and fed them back into Seiko's database. They came up as being used on two-tone 7A38 models with 'GRAY' faces, which most of us would probably describe as being Silver.

However, it isn't quite as clear-cut, in that you could, or should, take for granted that every 'Silver' dial face shown on Seiko's database is actually White, and take a 'Gray' dial face as being Silver, or Silvery-Grey - there are a few exceptions. I would suspect that all these discepancies in dial face colours arose over a number of years, by Seiko employing different product engineers working on the bills of materials / part number lists - and also various coding and data entry errors creeping in there at times, to compound the apparent confusion.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> I've found that one can effectively ignore the extra J1/J8/J9 suffices on the end of the SAAxxxJ SKU codes.
> 
> Still not quite sure of their actual significance, but it may just be a different (second) language on the 'Day' wheel.


Once I'd got over that dial face colour issue, reconciling the rest of the database was a relative doddle. Something that I had assumed, early on, was that the J0, J1, J3, J8 and J9 suffixes seen on the end of various SAAxxx product codes were of little or no significance, other than to designate a change, say in the (second) language on the 'Day' wheel - for different export markets, but wasn't so easy to prove. For some reason, best known to Seiko, the part numbers for the different day wheels are not included in their parts lists ! However, and probably because of this omission, in 99% of the cases where I ran a comparison of part number content between the J1, J8 and J9 versions of any given product code â€" there were no differences (at all) between them. I did this several times, just to be sure. So for my own purposes (_as had been my original intention_), that where a SAAxxxJ 7A38 product code also had J1, J8 and J9 versions, and no visible differences existed between the parts they comprised, to count it as just one variation of that particular model.

One exception to this 'rule' I came across, however, was where the suffix 'J3' was used. Over the last 6 months or so, Iâ€™ve seen a number of 7A38-7060's (and the odd â€"7069/A) mostly on eBay, particularly the gold-tone version, fitted with leather straps, instead of folded link bracelets. I had always presumed that they were 'wrong uns', and that the seller had simply replaced a worn or missing original bracelet with a leather strap for expediency â€" the design of the â€"706x watch case / lugs particularly lend themselves to a strap, rather than a bracelet. And in most cases, I suspect I was probably right, too.

However, looking at the parts list detail for the stainless 7A38-706A SAA017*J3* and the gold-tone 7A38-7060 SAA018*J3* shows that both these (and only these two) variants were apparently factory-fitted with leather bands, instead of bracelets.

A similar-ish situation appears to exist with the 7A38-7260 and â€"726A. Whereas all the (J1, J8 and J9) variants in this sub-model range were fitted with leather straps as standard, according to Seiko's database, one of each â€"7260 and â€"726A two-tone variants â€" SAA098*J3* and SAA102*J3* had different leather bands fitted, compared to their J1,J8 and J9 equivalents. :huh:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> I've spent some considerable time over the last few days analysing their 7A38 data. Those '310' variants (the number of SKU Model codes) actually represent something more like *80* real permutations (of watch case / bracelet / finish / face / hands).


Erm. 'Last few days' ? :huh: Ahem â€" better make that 'the last couple of months' ! 

So far out was I, from my original 'wet finger held aloft' guess-timate ?  Not too far at all, actually. B)

Here's a list, by sub-model group, of *what I believe* to be the definitive number of individual (_visually identifiable_) Seiko 7A38 model variants produced. I've grouped them by watch-case (regardless of finish). For example a 7A38-6010 is effectively just a black-chrome plated 7A38-6000, as are the -7070 and -7080, -7090 and -7100, -7180 and -7190. I could have further grouped the -7180/-7190/-727xâ€™s and -7290's together as they all use the same watch case, but it would have messed up the model numbering sequence.

-6000, -6010 .............................................. *2*

-6020 ......................................................... *2*

-6030, -6040 .............................................. *2*

-6050 ......................................................... *1*

-6060, -6070 .............................................. *2*

-6080 ......................................................... *3*

-6090 ......................................................... *4*

-6100, -6109 .............................................. *2*

-7000 ......................................................... *2*

-7010, -701A, -701B .................................. *4*

-7020, -7029, -702A, -702H ....................... *4**

-7030 ......................................................... *1*

-7040, -704A, -704B, -704C ....................... *4*

-7050, -705A .............................................. *2*

-7060, -7069, -706A, -706B ....................... *7* (or 9)**

-7070, -7080 .............................................. *2*

-7090, -7100 .............................................. *3*

-7110 ......................................................... *1*

-7120, -7130, -713A ................................... *5*

-7140, -714A .............................................. *3*

-7180, -7190 .............................................. *4*

-7240, -724A, -7250, -725A, -7260, -726A . *8* (or 10)**

-7270, -727A, -727B ................................... *7*

-7280, -7289, -728A, -728B, -728C ............ *7**

-7290, -7295 .............................................. *1*

Total ......................................................... *83*  (_or, if you include the leather strap variations_ *87* !!)

Notes:

*On both these sub-model ranges of 7A38, I found duplications of certain variations, for example:

The Stainless / Grey-faced 7A38-7020 (SAA009J) is exactly the same as 7A38-7029 (SAA013J) and

The Two-tone / Gold-faced 7A38-702A (SAA012J) is exactly the same as 7A38-702H (model code unknown).

The Stainless / White-faced 7A38-7280 (SAA119J) is exactly the same as 7A38-7289 (SAA109J) as are

The Two-tone / White-faced 'Roman Numeral' 7A38-7289 (SAA110J) and 7A38-728A (SAA122J).

In fact, apart from having checked their parts lists, I can now state that I physically own all 8 of the above variants (effectively as duplicates), and they are visibly identical in all respects, apart from their case-back stampings, obviously.

Indeed, those last two mentioned 7A38â€"728x product codes appear to have been further duplicated on Seikoâ€™s database as yet another 7A38-728A SAA128J and also as a 7A38-728*C* SAA138J !! 

**On both the 7A38-7060 / -706A and 7A38-7260 / -726A different leather strap variations against the J3-suffix parts lists.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

A bit more useless 7A38 'Anorak' information for our discerning readers. :groan:

Product SKU # codes for the 7A38 ran from SAA001J (the 7A38-7010) through to SAA149J (the 7A38-727B).

There were also other sequences used, however, such as SSJSxxx and SZLKxxx for certain Divers and Sports models.

Case model numbers ran from 7A38-6000 through to 7A38-729*5* (although the last shown on Seikoâ€™s database is â€"7290).

Earliest 7A38 production serial numbers, seen to date, run from October 1983 (3Oxxxx) through to September 1989 (99xxxx).

Questions, anybody ? :huh:









Gonna get some tea now ! :eat:


----------



## LuvWatch

I know to a lot of folk see all this information given by Paul as gobbldegook, but there is a lot of valuable details in there for 7A38 collectors.

I would also like to add a thanks to Paul for helping me identify the crystal I need for two 7A38's I have (still waiting on one to arrive) and have sourced original Seiko

parts.

So a big thank you Paul :thanx: :thumbup: for your hard work and you should get that spreadsheet on-line its invaluable.

Regards

Derek


----------



## andyft21

LuvWatch said:


> I know to a lot of folk see all this information given by Paul as gobbldegook, but there is a lot of valuable details in there for 7A38 collectors.
> 
> I would also like to add a thanks to Paul for helping me identify the crystal I need for two 7A38's I have (still waiting on one to arrive) and have sourced original Seiko
> 
> parts.
> 
> So a big thank you Paul :thanx: :thumbup: for your hard work and you should get that spreadsheet on-line its invaluable.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Derek


I would like to second this, Paul sure knows his stuff and I have enjoyed reading this post, it has been really interesting. Whilst the Vulcan link may not be proven, there is a lot to these watches and there are a couple of true experts on this site.


----------



## jasonm

> but there is a lot of valuable details in there for 7A38 collectors.


And Im sure the other one appreciates all Pauls hard work


----------



## LuvWatch

jasonm said:


> but there is a lot of valuable details in there for 7A38 collectors.
> 
> 
> 
> And Im sure the other one appreciates all Pauls hard work
Click to expand...

Can't someone ban him


----------



## jasonm

Say the word Derek h34r:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

jasonm said:


> but there is a lot of valuable details in there for 7A38 collectors.
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm sure the other one appreciates all Paul's hard work
Click to expand...

Thanks, Jason hone1: and Derek and Andy for your kind comments. :thumbsup:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

As the original small (eBay-hosted) listing photo of my 7A38-701B, which started this thread, has since dropped off eBay (eBay's auction history only lasts for 90 days after auction end) ....

.... and ignoring all the various debates about 'the Vulcan myth' ....

I thought a nice way to finish off the last page of this thread would be to share with you -

Thian's super montage of Vulcan X558 with a Seiko 7A38-701B (Dave Swan's pristine example):










(Original Vulcan X558 photo courtesey of, and copyright Neil Bury.)


----------



## watchking1

Sadly still looking for a "Vulcan". I haven't seen one ever for sale...


----------



## SEIKO7A38

watchking1 said:


> Sadly still looking for a "Vulcan". I haven't seen one ever for sale...


There have been a couple more 7A38-701B's on eBay since the bargain example I picked up in May 2009, Skip. 

Another came up, again in Germany, in the last week of November 2009. Here's the seller's listing photos:




























It was in better cosmetic condition than the one I'd bought in May ....

The bezel insert had minimal scratches, and the bracelet wasn't stretched -

So I had to have it, too. :naughty: Ended up paying rather more for that one - â‚¬280 Euros. :lookaround:

This is that second one, suitably reposed in a yellow Seiko ashtray - I've posted this photo elsewhere:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Whereas there was a certain kudos to having 2 'Vulcans' in my collection, I couldn't really justify keeping both of them. 










The newer slightly better example in the centre of this photo; the original 'bargain' is on the right ....

(shown here fitted with a substitute Seiko p/n B1688S bracelet, in place of the original p/n Z1118S bracelet).

So .... The first one, the original subject of this thread, went back on eBay at the beginning of December 2009.

Here's a couple of my photos from that eBay listing:



















It sold for a rather disappointing Â£360  - but still a decent profit on the price I paid of 167 Euros. 



watchking1 said:


> Sadly still looking for a "Vulcan". I haven't seen one ever for sale...


I haven't seen another 7A38-701B on eBay since - but there's always the slight chance I may have missed one.


----------



## Davey P

Regardless of the Vulcan story and whether it's true or not, that is one gorgeous looking watch! k:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Davey P said:


> Regardless of the Vulcan story and whether it's true or not ....


As I cockily wrote on the first page of this thread (before all hell broke loose) .... :black eye:



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> So it looks like the 'Vulcan' myth has been well and truly exploded. :dontgetit:


Talking about the 'Vulcan myth' and how such stories can become distorted over time, I was googling today, and

came across this post in a thread discussing 'Seiko Chronographs and HEQ movements' on WUS from July 2008:



> Or indeed the 7A38 with date, including *a 'hardened' radiation proof one, in yellow,* issued to RAF Vulcan pilots back when *they still carried nuclear payloads ....*


Talk about complete and utter :bull*******:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> But do I care ? :lookaround: I've just added a rare yellow-faced 7A38 to my growing collection. :yahoo:





Davey P said:


> .... that is one gorgeous looking watch! k:


Personally I'm a bit ambivalent about it's looks  - and prefer wearing the black-faced 7A38-7010 ....

and there are lots of other more attractive looking 7A38 variants, IMHO. :drool: Too many to mention. :yawn:

Anyway 'nuff said :agree: , here's another 'yellow' photo I've posted elsewhere, but not in this thread before:










Edit: I've just noticed this thread has now had *17,000+* views !! :shocking:  :jawdrop:


----------



## Bobfrog

I have to admit, always been a fan of the 6138/6139 movement but those pictures are making me want a 7a38 too. Man this forum is dangerous


----------



## jasonm

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> But do I care ? :lookaround: I've just added a rare yellow-faced 7A38 to my growing collection. :yahoo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Davey P said:
> 
> 
> 
> .... that is one gorgeous looking watch! k:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Personally I'm a bit ambivalent about it's looks  - and prefer wearing the black-faced 7A38-7010 ....
> 
> and there are lots of other more attractive looking 7A38 variants, IMHO. :drool: Too many to mention. :yawn:
> 
> Anyway 'nuff said :agree: , here's another 'yellow' photo I've posted elsewhere, but not in this thread before:
> 
> *Edit: I've just noticed this thread has now had **17,000+* views !! :shocking:  :jawdrop:
Click to expand...

Yeah, but how many were you?


----------



## tall_tim

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> As the original small (eBay-hosted) listing photo of my 7A38-701B, which started this thread, has since dropped off eBay (eBay's auction history only lasts for 90 days after auction end) ....
> 
> .... and ignoring all the various debates about 'the Vulcan myth' ....
> 
> I thought a nice way to finish off the last page of this thread would be to share with you -
> 
> Thian's super montage of Vulcan X558 with a Seiko 7A38-701B (Dave Swan's pristine example):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Original Vulcan X558 photo courtesey of, and copyright Neil Bury.)


Sorry to be a pedant, but as the 'old lady' may have flown her last display and as a member of VTST, I think you should apologise for getting her 'name' wrong - XH558. :smartass:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

tall_tim said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thian's super montage of Vulcan *X558* ....
> 
> (Original Vulcan *X558* photo courtesey of .....)
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should apologise for getting her 'name' wrong - XH558. :smartass:
Click to expand...

Not only getting her 'name' wrong, but doing so *twice*, Tim.







So, to *XH558* - my humblest apologies.









Written like a true pedant, Sir ! :thumbsup:


----------



## tall_tim

:thumbup:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

I note with some amusement that the subject of the Vulcan myth was raised again recently on TZ-UK. 

The instigator of this renewed interest being one 'CharlieChuckles' - a.k.a. 'Charlotte' ....

who, coincidentally, just happens to be an employee of Anchor Supplies in Ripley ....

who, in turn, naturally have absolutely no vested interest*** in perpetuating the myth. :lookaround:

Couple of quotes:



> I am a proud owner of a Seiko Vulcan Bombers Yellow face complete with original issue box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will post the Vulcan box at a later date as I have to retrieve it from my loft ....


An appearance by said waxed cardboard box, complete with NSN, was promised a year ago on MWR, IIRC. :bull*******:

***See posts # 49 and 50 (on Page 4) of this thread.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> I haven't seen another 7A38-701B on eBay since - but there's always the slight chance I may have missed one.





watchking1 said:


> Sadly still looking for a "Vulcan". I haven't seen one ever for sale...


Look again, Skip. :umnik2:


----------



## watchking1

Got it....On it....But won't sell a damn Yankee :crybaby: :crybaby:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

That most recent eBay auction for a 7A38 'Vulcan' just ended: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170570679040



> *Seiko Chronograph RAF Yellow Face Vulcan Aircrew*
> 
> 7A38-701B












Sold for a very respectable *Â£515* , bearing in mind that it was the watch head only, without bracelet.

Must admit, I had a little chuckle to myself about the Q&A at the bottom of the listing:



> Q: Hi could you tell me where you got the watch and more importantly is it working. Thanks Phil
> 
> A: Hi I purchased it in the early nineties *from a local government surplus store* and it is working fine. regards


Makes you wonder if the seller will be chucking in that all important waxed cardboard box in that price.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> So it looks like the 'Vulcan' myth has been well and truly exploded. :dontgetit:


Well, if it wasn't before, it's been totally busted now ! :thumbsdown:

Although I don't think that was quite the OP's intention. 

Recent thread on the other side: http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=147621










Note also the SAA005J *RETAIL* sales tag in 'charliechuckles' photo links in her post on page 3.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Well, if it wasn't before, it's been totally busted now ! :thumbsdown:


There's more reaction on the MWR forum, here: http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=129675

And whereas I wouldn't have even dared even murmur this out loud, myself









.... respected military watch expert James Dowling doesn't mince his words:



> *There is nothing shown that links the box & the watch.*


Those were exactly my own thoughts, as soon as I saw the photos. :thumbsup:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if it wasn't before, it's been totally busted now ! :thumbsdown:
> 
> 
> 
> There's more reaction on the MWR forum, here: http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=129675
> 
> And whereas I wouldn't have even dared even murmur this out loud, myself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .... respected watch expert / author James Dowling doesn't mince his words:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *There is nothing shown that links the box & the watch.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Those were exactly my own thoughts, as soon as I saw the photos. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...


----------



## SEIKO7A38

watchking1 said:


> Sadly still looking for a "Vulcan". I haven't seen one ever for sale...


Well I wonder who got this one then ?  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=160599852457&si=SH3ZuYhAM7aZ8DeNTgQukupLQ5w%253D&viewitem=&sspage

Listed last night on eBay in the States:



> *Seiko Chronograph Quartz TachyMeter*





















> Beautiful and hard to find Seiko Chronograph Tachymeter sport watch. Like new condition, worn only a few times.


Opening bid price was a mere $20, and by early this morning it had been bid up to the seller's low $150 reserve price.

Looks like, from the Q&A's at the bottom of the listing that he was getting a few offers:



> *Q:* Hi. Would you be interested in a buy-it-now of $400 on the Seiko ?
> 
> Its identical to the one I've been wearing for years but recently got ruined in an accident, and it had
> 
> been a really trusted watch up till that point. I'd really appreciate it if you can help me out. Regards,
> 
> *A:* i am considering your offer





> *Q:* Hello, Would you consider a buy it now price for your Seiko watch? Thanks
> 
> *A:* this must be a better watch than i thought i have three offers to buy it now


Seller obviously didn't realize what he had on his hands - until the 'Buy-it-Now' offers started coming in. 

Wonder who finally persuaded him to end the auction early, and what they paid him for it in the end. :lookaround:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Seller obviously didn't realize what he had on his hands - until the 'Buy-it-Now' offers started coming in.
> 
> Wonder who finally persuaded him to end the auction early, and what they paid him for it in the end. :lookaround:


Purely out of interest, you understand :naughty:, I'd messaged the eBay seller asking how much he'd sold it for (off eBay). :huh:

He just replied to my message:



> i sold it for 2250


I call :bull*******:


----------



## watchking1

Some ****** has the nerve to attempt to buy outside of ebay and circumvent the saftey of buyer's protection.

Who would do such a thing?


----------



## americankiwi

Hi guys,

i know its a old thread , while searching for info on my watch

i found this forum

first off, i dont believe the RAF story either, but,

i bought my 7A38-701B new in 1986, this was when i lived in New Zealand (i now live in the USA)

i was walking down the street, window shopping just wasting time

i walked past a small jewelry store window, and it was love at first sight!

the store was in New Brighton beach, Christchurch, South Island ,

again this was about mid 1986

i walked in ..asked for the price...they said nz$150.00

it was the only one like it that they had on display

..i asked about the watch..they said..this is the only one we have had like this

with a yellow colored face,...so i bought it..

now...they said..this is a strange Seiko watch..it comes in a plan unmarked box!...with no instructions!

the store had had it a couple years by the time i bought it ( i dated the SN# 393929 to about 1984?)..i thought it was strange even back then

so i did ask again...are you sure this watch is new?...they said yes.

they said..if you come back in a week...we will try to order a instruction booklet for it, but they couldnt get one!

i wanted to post a couple pic's but cant work out how to,..if someone can help me with that, i can email them the watch pic's

this has been a very interesting thread!!....now this watch i have has been through hell and back!!...i still have it...its on its 5th or 6th strap , strap on it now is the right style but has a pulsar latch...its been unused/not worn now for about 10yrs...the first battery lasted over 5 yrs!...up untill i stopped wearing it..i was always asked...where did you get that watch!?...or...man thats a cool looking watch...and they cant/didnt believe it when i tell them how old it is....even today...it still stands up great to todays watch designs.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Hi, and :welcome: to :rltb: the home of all things 7A38. 



americankiwi said:


> i wanted to post a couple pic's but cant work out how to,..if someone can help me with that ....


There's a 10-page thread on this very subject pinned at the top of the 'General Discussion' section:

How To Upload Picture To The Forum You might want to have a practice run over there first. Many do.



americankiwi said:


> i bought my 7A38-701B new in 1986, this was when i lived in New Zealand (i now live in the USA)


BTW - This isn't the first 7A38-701B I've heard of turning up in New Zealand.

There's a Kiwi who posts on WatchTalk as 'Muttley', who uploaded a few photos of his, here: Another happy pair.


----------



## americankiwi

OK..i think i got this right

My link


----------



## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> OK..i think i got this right
> 
> My link


Almost. :lookaround:

But either because of the way you sent up your Flickr account security + the photos as Â© All Rights Reserved,

- it means you (or someone else) can't directly link your images into the thread (if that had been your intention).

So I've cheated; down-loaded them, and re-hosted them in my Photobucket account. :naughty:



















But just to show you that it can be done, with slightly different account settings on Flickr ....

Here's one of my first 7A38-701B (sold in December 2009) hosted from my own Flickr account:










That photo is also Â© All Rights Reserved .....

but unlike your two photos, allows anyone to 'Grab the HTML/BBCode', which is how you embed a Flickr image in a post.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38 said:


> But just to show you that it can be done, with slightly different account settings on Flickr ....
> 
> Here's one of my first 7A38-701B (sold in December 2009) hosted from my own Flickr account:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That photo is also Â© All Rights Reserved .....
> 
> but unlike your two photos, allows anyone to 'Grab the HTML/BBCode', which is how you embed a Flickr image in a post.












Here's the difference - your above photo didn't give me the option to 'Grab the HTML/BBCode' - just the Link. :thumbsdown:



















I don't actually copy (and paste) all of Flickr's (superfluous) coding - just the part between the







brackets. :smartass:


----------



## americankiwi

Thanks for doing that...

SEIKO7A38,can i ask a question?....how many 7A38's do you have in your collection?!

and i guess you noticed that my watch is'nt running any more ( both pic's at same time)

last time i wore it, it go wet and stopped...i threw a new bettery in it, but its still dead

when i put the battery in the hands do a full sweep and stop, but nothing else works....

i've since removed the battery and left it as is...i did leave the back off it a while to air it out (the time it got wet)


----------



## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> Thanks for doing that...
> 
> SEIKO7A38,can i ask a question?....how many 7A38's do you have in your collection?!


If you include all makes of 7A38: Seiko, Yema (N8), Orient (J39), Jaz, Cartier Ferrari Formula, etc. .... upwards of 130. :blush:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> last time i wore it, it go wet and stopped...i threw a new bettery in it, but its still dead
> 
> when i put the battery in the hands do a full sweep and stop, but nothing else works....


I presume that is without you holding in the 4 o'clock pusher in (the in-built chrono' self test).

Chances are if water got inside, the circuit board is shorted out, and even worse, there may be mechanical damage. 

With the 7A38-701B 'Vulcan' being as collectible as it is, definately worth having a new (or used) movement fitted.

Even if it meant buying another 'beater' 7A38 just to use as a movement donor.

If you have a competent friendly local watchmaker who could swap the top end over for you, probably .....

the cheapest source of a replacement movement would be a 7A3*4*-7019. They come up quite often on eBay in the States.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> First off, i dont believe the RAF story either ....


Neither do I. :secret: But the 'Vulcan myth' is a wonderful association, which I doubt will ever go away completely. :no:



americankiwi said:


> I know its a old thread ....


Your bumping it reminded me of this post from the bottom of page 6, two years ago and more:



SEIKO7A38 said:


> .... and ignoring all the various debates about 'the Vulcan myth' ....
> 
> I thought a nice way to finish off the last page of this thread would be to share with you -
> 
> Thian's super montage of Vulcan XH558 with a Seiko 7A38-701B (Dave Swan's pristine example):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Original Vulcan XH558 photo courtesey of, and copyright Neil Bury.)


.... which, in turn, prompted me to try and take a couple of similar compositions using my own 7A38-701B 'RAF Vulcan':



















Mythed again. :grin: Original background images, 'borrowed' once again courtesy of and Â© Neil Bury (Lev_67 on Flickr). :naughty:

Incidentally, if you search Flickr on Vulcan XH558, there are nearly 15,000 images on there. :shocking:

I must make an effort to go and see the old warbird, the next time she's at Fairford or Kemble.


----------



## hermann

SEIKO7A38 said:


> If you have a competent friendly local watchmaker who could swap the top end over for you, probably .....
> 
> the cheapest source of a replacement movement would be a 7A3*4*-7019. They come up quite often on eBay in the States.


Do I understand you right, Paul? A 7A34 movement can be taken as a replacement for a 7A38? What about the position of day/date? And are the other dimensions (thickness of the movement) the same?


----------



## SEIKO7A38

hermann said:


> SEIKO7A38 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a competent friendly local watchmaker who could swap the top end over for you, probably .....
> 
> the cheapest source of a replacement movement would be a 7A3*4*-7019. They come up quite often on eBay in the States.
> 
> 
> 
> Do I understand you right, Paul? A 7A34 movement can be taken as a replacement for a 7A38?
> 
> What about the position of day/date? And are the other dimensions (thickness of the movement) the same?
Click to expand...

That's what I mean by 'swap the top end over', Achim. :hammer:

You'd need to swap the (12 o'clock) day wheel of the 7A34 over for the full day / date complication of the 7A38.

Not something I've tried personally - yet.  But if you compare the parts lists, everything else is identical. :wink2:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

hermann said:


> And are the other dimensions (thickness of the movement) the same?


Exactly. :grin:

The main variable (in thickness) would be the Day / Date spacer ring / guard. This is one off a scrap 7A38(A) movement:










The Seiko part number is 0105726. You do a 'where used' reverse look up on Seiko's database and ....










Trust me. :wink2:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38 said:


> That's what I mean by 'swap the top end over', Achim. :hammer:
> 
> You'd need to swap the (12 o'clock) day wheel of the 7A34 over for the full day / date complication of the 7A38.
> 
> Not something I've tried personally - yet.  But if you compare the parts lists, everything else is identical. :wink2:


I will admit that last night, after I'd written that I had a brief moment of uncertainty. 

So I ran a 'where used' (reverse look-up) on two more parts:

The main (movement) plate p/n 0101728 and the dial sheet / lower plate p/n 0105726 ....

Both came up in the parts lists of the 7A34(A) and 7A38(A) movements, as expected. :sweatdrop:

So I stand by my guns - it's 'just' a matter of changing over the top ends of the two movements. :hammer:

There is one small rider that I need to add to that, however ....

If you're going to do the job properly, you need to swap one component from the back side - the battery +ve terminal plate.

:dontgetit: Swap the 7A34A plate (p/n 4271719) for the 7A38A plate (p/n 4271731), because that's where 7A3*x*A is stamped. :grin:

Probably the only reason I haven't actually tried it yet myself, is that I haven't had the need to.

I've got a few gash 7A38 movements, so I've had no need to buy a 7A34 to break up for parts (yet).

I could have gone that route, a while back, but took the easy (empty sample case) route instead.

See this thread: 7A38 Into 7A34 Will Go ....


----------



## new2the7A38

"So I ran a 'where used' (reverse look-up)"

Thanks for the tip!


----------



## SEIKO7A38

new2the7A38 said:


> "So I ran a 'where used' (reverse look-up)"
> 
> Thanks for the tip!


John. If you try it, make sure you *only have the part number* in the bottom right hand search box, as in my example:










If you fail to clear the Calibre and Case No boxes first, you'll either get a spurious result or an SQL error.


----------



## americankiwi

Thanks for all the info SEIKO7A38

i started looking on ebay for a parts unit...man, some people are dreamers when it comes to asking prices! lol

i did pick up a movement for $38.00 (unsure if works..but at that price i can take a risk)

i laughed when i saw this # 160666458113 at $299.00

all rusted up, frozen movement...beat to hell..$29.90 should of been more like it..lol


----------



## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> Thanks for all the info SEIKO7A38


My pleasure. :hi:



americankiwi said:


> I started looking on ebay for a parts unit...man, some people are dreamers when it comes to asking prices! lol
> 
> I did pick up a movement for $38.00 (unsure if works..but at that price i can take a risk)


Ah so you were the winning bidder on this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230688167297#ht_500wt_950

I was one of the early bidders - I hope it works for you, and hasn't been too messed with. :wink2:

If you haven't already downloaded a copy, and need to swap parts, this will come in handy: 7A38A.pdf


----------



## americankiwi

SEIKO7A38 you da man!! re: your PDF

Thanks so much

...i will try to disassemble the unit when it arrives

i have had the back plate off my watch...so i feel OK about working on it so far

(i checked to see if rust had built up under it)...it was clean...like you say

it must have had a short in the C-board...

the only thing scaring me is removing the hands etc..damn those are small!..lol


----------



## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> SEIKO7A38 you da man!! re: your PDF
> 
> Thanks so much
> 
> ...i will try to disassemble the unit when it arrives
> 
> i have had the back plate off my watch...so i feel OK about working on it so far
> 
> (i checked to see if rust had built up under it)...it was clean...like you say
> 
> it must have had a short in the C-board...
> 
> the only thing scaring me is removing the hands etc..damn those are small!..lol


Practice on the ones on your incoming 7A38-7280 movement - they are expendable - and partly b*ggerd already.

If you use that 'spares or repair' movement (as opposed to using parts from it to repair your own movement) ....

You do realize that you really ought to swap over the day / date wheels as well ? The 'Vulcan's are black.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> the only thing scaring me is removing the hands etc..damn those are small!..lol


There are various tools available for pulling the three main hands (either singly or all at once).

Read this PMWF tutorial and make your own choice: HOW TO remove and replace hands and dial

For chrono' sub-dial hands (and for popping off chrono' sweep second hands, with hour and minute in situ) ....

I personally use a pair of Horotec 1.2mm watch hand levers. They're quite expensive, but I can justify their use.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Another tip for owners of 7A38-701B 'Vulcans' (or for that matter 7A38-7010's or 7A38-701A's) ....

If you're looking for a replacement crystal (original Seiko p/n 300WF0GN00 is obsolete and NLA), read *THIS* :read:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

jasonm said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've just noticed this thread has now had *17,000+* views !! :shocking:  :jawdrop:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but how many were you?
Click to expand...

Make that *25,000+* :grin:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38 said:


> Well I wonder who got this one then ?  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=160599852457&si=SH3ZuYhAM7aZ8DeNTgQukupLQ5w%253D&viewitem=&sspage
> 
> Listed last night on eBay in the States:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Seiko Chronograph Quartz TachyMeter*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beautiful and hard to find Seiko Chronograph Tachymeter sport watch. Like new condition, worn only a few times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wonder who finally persuaded him to end the auction early, and what they paid him for it in the end. :lookaround:
Click to expand...

Seems like that one may very likely be re-appearing on a well-known online auction site anytime soon.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

In the meantime, in case anybody was wondering what I was rambling on about in that 7A28 RAF Gen 1 thread:



SEIKO7A38 said:


> .... whereas the 'correct' original Seiko crystal p/n 300WF0GN00 had a small, but very visible 45Â° polished beveled top edge.
> 
> The 7A38-7010; -701A and the 7A38-701B 'Vulcan' also used the same p/n 300WF0GN00 crystal ....
> 
> With the way that the crystal is well recessed below the Tachymeter bezel on the 7A38-701x's,
> 
> and the edge of the minute ring is effectively in the shade, the beveled edge reflects more light.
> 
> So when I needed to replace crystals on one of my 7A38-7010's and my 7A38-701B 'Vulcan' recently ....


Here's a couple of photos I took last month of my 7A38-701B, showing that 45Â° polished beveled edge of the original crystal:


----------



## alcot33uk

Guys,

This has evoked a lot of emotions in me in that my dad gave me one of these many years ago and I knackered it on purpose to enable me getting a Casio.....

I was about 13... makes you think!


----------



## jude

upside is the price wasnt mythical .. And youre happy with it ..


----------



## SEIKO7A38

jude said:


> upside is the price wasnt mythical .. And youre happy with it ..


Yes, IIRC, I paid 280 Euros for my second one, in November 2009 - but it's in rather better condition than the first 'cheapie'. 

Having said that, there wasn't too much in the way of stiff bidding competition, as it wasn't particularly well described ....

Unlike the next one, possibly.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38 said:


> SEIKO7A38 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I wonder who got this one then ?  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=160599852457&si=SH3ZuYhAM7aZ8DeNTgQukupLQ5w%253D&viewitem=&sspage
> 
> Listed last night on eBay in the States:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Seiko Chronograph Quartz TachyMeter*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beautiful and hard to find Seiko Chronograph Tachymeter sport watch. Like new condition, worn only a few times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wonder who finally persuaded him to end the auction early, and what they paid him for it in the end. :lookaround:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seems like that one may very likely be re-appearing on a well-known online auction site anytime soon.
Click to expand...

A little later than I'd anticipated, but listed nonetheless on eBay yesterday evening around 10:00pm:

*Seiko Vulcan vintage 7A28-701B quartz chronograph SAA005J*












> *Seiko Vulcan vintage 7A28-701B quartz chronograph SAA005J*
> 
> Up for auction is a stunning Seiko 7A38-701B chronograph, sometimes called the 'Vulcan' because of urban legends associating this yellow faced watch with the RAF Vulcan flight crews (and subject to much internet debate!).
> 
> It has been worn, but is in very good condition bearing in mind its nearly 30 yrs old. All functions are working perfectly and its keeping time to approximately 1 second a day.
> 
> To the naked eye it looks to be in very nice cosmetic condition. Under a bright light with a magnifying glass you will find various tiny marks and nicks. The Hardlex glass is in superb shape with no big scratches of scuffs, and only a few microscopic marks. The black bezel is also very good with only a few minor scratches and indentations. The tachymeter numerals are all nice and crisp.
> 
> The case and strap are very good all over with just the odd sign of wear.
> 
> The clasp has few marks on it, that you can just make out in the photos.
> 
> The quartz movement is very clean and original.
> 
> The strap is very large and will fit on a wrist up to about an 8.25 inch.
> 
> The watch weighs approx 95g.


Definitely the same 7A*3*8-701B - it still has the same very small mark on the Tachymeter bezel inlay above the '1' of 100.

But could it be that some of the other larger marks, like the one above '55' on the minute ring (in June) have been retouched ? :artist:

And it seems I'm not the only one who gets his 7Axx cal. numbers mixed up occasionally.









Note the title and description first line both read 7A*2*8-701B when first uploaded. :rofl2:

It'll be interesting to see if this (5-day) auction listing goes the full distance ....

Or whether the seller succumbs to any tempting (off-eBay) offers to end the listing early. :naughty:

Either way, it's academic, because one will never be able to ascertain a true picture of the bidding.

As a few others do, this eBay seller employs the under-handed *private listing - hidden bidder ID*'s ploy,

which IMHO smacks of sharp practices, and is often used to hide not only bidder's ID's but shill bidding. :thumbsdown:


----------



## Moustachio

yep, noticed that this morning as it came up in my "7a28, giugiaro etc" automatic listing notification.

Looks really tidy though.


----------



## scottswatches

Damn. I thought because he had mis-listed it i might have stood a chance of getting it cheap!

I'm out


----------



## SEIKO7A38

scottswatches said:


> I'm out


Me too. But still worth watching (ends after the fireworks on Saturday night). Anybody fancy a sweepstake ? :lookaround:


----------



## americankiwi

looking at the serial# it only a few numbers later than mine

941 to my 929

PS..im still waiting on the parts movement to arrive


----------



## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> looking at the serial# it only a few numbers later than mine
> 
> 941 to my 929 ....












Talking about 7A38-701B serial numbers, this one is another 39xxxx, from September 1983, which going on past sightings,

would appear to represent the 'peak production month' in the the comparatively short manufacturing life of this 7A38 model.

I've seen a couple more with 3Oxxxx (October '83) and 3Nxxxx (November '83) serial numbers, the latter including the now

infamous NOS example, complete with SAA005J retail tag and (presumably totally unrelated) HMS Davenport MOD stores

(allegedly) issued waxed cardboard box, belonging to Charlotte 'Charlie Chuckles' of Anchor Supplies, Ripley:










Which bearing in mind that the last Vulcan came out of RAF service in 1984, makes that one a 'bit' late. :thumbsdown:










My own (eBay seller's photo above) has a 38xxxx serial number - from August 1983, which along with DaveS's example,

dates them as not only the earliest 7A38-701B production, but also the earliest manufactured of any 7A38's I've seen.

As we've witnessed in another thread, the 3260 other watches which were produced in August 1983, before mine,

weren't necessarily even 7A38's, let alone 7A38-701B's - and more likely were predominantly various 7A28-xxxx's.

Strangely enough, the other two models in the 7A38-701x range were produced for a couple more years afterwards.

The 'beater' 7A38-701A which I picked up on eBay in September even has a 52xxxx (February 1985) serial number.


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38 said:


> A little later than I'd anticipated, but listed nonetheless on eBay yesterday evening around 10:00pm:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Seiko Vulcan vintage 7A28-701B quartz chronograph SAA005J*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Seiko Vulcan vintage 7A28-701B quartz chronograph SAA005J*
> 
> Up for auction is a stunning Seiko 7A38-701B chronograph, sometimes called the 'Vulcan' because of urban legends associating this yellow faced watch with the RAF Vulcan flight crews (and subject to much internet debate!)....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Definitely the same 7A*3*8-701B - it still has the same very small mark on the Tachymeter bezel inlay above the '1' of 100.
> 
> But could it be that some of the other larger marks, like the one above '55' on the minute ring (in June) have been retouched ? :artist:
> 
> And it seems I'm not the only one who gets his 7Axx cal. numbers mixed up occasionally.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note the title and description first line both read 7A*2*8-701B when first uploaded. :rofl2:
> 
> It'll be interesting to see if this (5-day) auction listing goes the full distance ....
> 
> Or whether the seller succumbs to any tempting (off-eBay) offers to end the listing early. :naughty:
Click to expand...

I notice that the seller finally added a footnote to his eBay listing, yesterday evening (though not bothered to correct the title):



> On 04-Nov-11 at 20:25:22 GMT, seller added the following information:
> 
> Thanks for all the emails pointing out my enormous cockup getting the cal number wrong .. Doh !!
> 
> It should have read * Seiko 7A38 * ... my loss, your gain.
> 
> Also, I'd prefer to just let the auction run rather than accept any of the tempting offers.


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## SEIKO7A38

Didn't seem to make much difference - the listing still received 582 views over the 5-day period.

Sold for a respectable *Â£566.00* after 28 bids, jumping from Â£479.00 in the last few seconds. 

See: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140629632831?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_1230wt_1059

I think I'm going to have to get my 000 paintbrush out and retouch those couple of marks on my bezel. :artist:


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## Sir Alan

had a little 'play' with this for a while on the bay.

Decided at the last minute not to go for it (nearly slapped a max bid in of Â£600) - but I couldn't justify to myself why I really wanted it and I thought I might regret it.

So, for those that know what they're talking about - was Â£566 an expected end figure?


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## SEIKO7A38

Sir Alan said:


> So, for those that know what they're talking about - was Â£566 an expected end figure?


I'd say about right, compared to the previous one that was *properly* listed on eBay, last December:



SEIKO7A38 said:


> That most recent eBay auction for a 7A38 'Vulcan' just ended: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170570679040
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Seiko Chronograph RAF Yellow Face Vulcan Aircrew*
> 
> 7A38-701B
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sold for a very respectable *Â£515* , bearing in mind that it was the watch head only, without bracelet.
Click to expand...


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## Sir Alan

Thanks. Clearly someone really wanted this and knew what it would take. I wonder if my arbitrary Â£600 would have been enough?

We won't know - and that's why I decided not to find out ;-)


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## hermann

ItÂ´s strange that people are willing to pay such high prices for watches with military background. The same with the 7A28 RAF.

Nice watches, no question about it. But for me not that interresting to pay this amount.


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## americankiwi

SEIKO7A38

do you know the part number for a original strap on the 701b...or know of anyone that has one for sale?

i'd like to have my watch back to original....at the moment it has a pulsar strap...its close!...but made in HK

i got the movement in the mail..it didnt work at first...but after cleaning it up it now works...im taking my time

doing the replacement...the date dial etc is very tricky!...i may have to replace the black "day" wheel...

mine got a small kink in it and it binds up....been looking for a non running black 7A38 movement for replacement "day" wheel... i now know how to remove-

the wheels the right way...lol...that snap ring had me screwed


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## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> Do you know the part number for a original strap on the 701B...or know of anyone that has one for sale?
> 
> I'd like to have my watch back to original....at the moment it has a pulsar strap...its close!...but made in HK


The Seiko p/n for the original bracelet on a 7A38-701B (also used on the 7A38-7010 and -701A) is *Z1118S*.

But I think your chances of finding one are slim to remote. You could try giving COSERV a call, I suppose.

I don't know of anyone with one for sale, and I've only ever seen 2 come up for sale on eBay.

This one in January 2009:










and a broken one in May 2010:



















Personally, if it looks 'close', I'd be inclined to stick with your Pulsar bracelet, and change the clasp for a Seiko SQ one.


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## SEIKO7A38

I forgot to mention that there are other similar appearing Seiko bracelets which you could use, such as p/n B1688S:



SEIKO7A38 said:


> tixntox said:
> 
> 
> 
> That way I get to wear the watch without putting too much WABI on the original bracelet (which is carefully tucked away).
> 
> 
> 
> I do exactly the same thing myself, sometimes Mike. :grin:
> 
> Take these 2 7A38-701B 'Vulcans':
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 'beater' on the right is on a non-original bracelet (but still a Seiko bracelet - a p/n B1688S, IIRC :umnik2: )
> 
> I wore it like that to preserve the original bracelet - to prevent it from getting any more stretched - till I sold it.
> 
> That same 'make-do-and-wear' B1688S bracelet has since done time on one of my Orient J39's ....
> 
> and is currently fitted to my 'beater' 7A38-7010, whose bracelet got robbed of links for another.
Click to expand...


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## americankiwi

here are a couple pic's of the pulsar strap

pic's


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## SEIKO7A38

Like I said :wink2:



SEIKO7A38 said:


> Personally, if it looks 'close', I'd be inclined to stick with your Pulsar bracelet, and change the clasp for a Seiko SQ one.


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## americankiwi

I do have a Seiko clasp somewhere....i have some more old watches laying around...and remember seeing a Seiko SQ


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## americankiwi

SEIKO7A38

i see you chatting about digital watches too

that strap for my 701B that i pulled from a Pulsar, has the H601 movement

there seems to be a little collectibility on these watches too?

the Pulsar is the V011-5100 (avg condiction)

i also have the Seiko H601-5479 in gun metal (very nice condiction)


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## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> SEIKO7A38
> 
> I see you chatting about digital watches too ....


You may have seen me mention them in passing (or by default) ....

But quite honestly I have no real interest in digital watches per se. :schmoll:

If you want to talk about them yourself, by all means please start a new topic.


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## americankiwi

No thanks...lol

just that i was looking for that seiko SQ strap..and came across

my other watches...i thought...before i gut the mint H601

i better just look them up..and your name popped up again...lol

Digital has never taken my interest...im a analog guy

i just came across lots of watches lately as i was working for

St Vincent de Paul...( not anymore)

most are just cheap junkers...but the odd one catches my eye

like these 2 H601's...i looked at the strap and thought...holly hell!!

that will work on my 701B!!

talking about analog...anyone here into Vintage audio?

i had a collection so huge i could of opened a museum


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## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> talking about analog...anyone here into Vintage audio?
> 
> i had a collection so huge i could of opened a museum


fftopic: (again)  See: Non-Watch Interests & Hobbies :wink2:



> A *The* place to discuss non-watch related interests, cars, bikes, sport and hobbies.


:acute:


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## americankiwi

Sorry...my bad :schmoll:


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## SEIKO7A38

Suppose I ought to give eBay item # 180758929938 a mention ....

Particularly as the seller is doing his level best to keep the 'Vulcan' myth alive. 



> *Seiko RAF Vulcan bomber flightcrew issued watch*























> Here it is.
> 
> Rare indeed. *The yellow faced Seiko known to be worn by RAF Vulcan bomber crews.*
> 
> Bezel is somewhat worn. Glass is clear. Keeps excellent time.
> 
> Marking on the back:
> 
> SEIKO
> 
> Water resistant
> 
> 394607
> 
> JAPAN S
> 
> Stainless Steel 7A38-701B (A3)
> 
> RAF flightcrew Seiko watches described in detail here (scroll to the bottom of the page):
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nederick/SeikoChronoRevuVulcF.htm


The seller has cleverly included a link to Ned Frederick's webpage that erroneously corroborates his story.









But in fact, this is just another rather poor, badly worn *civilian* Seiko 7A38-701B on the *wrong bracelet*. :thumbsdown:

There seems to be plenty of international interest from the few Q&A's. Pity about the lack of MOD markings. 



> Extra picture from the rear of the watch uploaded. No further markings on the back other then described.


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## americankiwi

I have placed a bid on the watch....i could use the movement out of it for mine

shame the case is so beat-up....and i thought mine was in bad shape lol


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## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> I have placed a bid on the watch....i could use the movement out of it for mine
> 
> shame the case is so beat-up....and i thought mine was in bad shape lol


In retrospect, you could have left the higher bid amount which you retracted, Hans - because it's nearly there anyway.

It'll probably go for a lot higher yet (despite being the roughest I've personally seen) - still 5Â½ hours till the auction ends.


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## SEIKO7A38

Well, there's the difference for all to see ....

between a well-photographed; *almost* properly described decent example of a 7A38-701B 'Vulcan':



SEIKO7A38 said:


> Didn't seem to make much difference - the listing still received 582 views over the 5-day period.
> 
> Sold for a respectable *Â£566.00* after 28 bids, jumping from Â£479.00 in the last few seconds.
> 
> See: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140629632831?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_1230wt_1059


and a badly mis-represented (as an issued watch) 'beater' 7A38-701B on an incorrect bracelet.

In comparison, this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180758929938?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_950 - which just ended moments ago, received only 333 views

over its 7-day listing period, and only made *Â£266.98* after 25 bids, jumping from a mere Â£135.33 in the last few seconds.

I reckon the seller got his just deserts. :thumbsdown:


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## americankiwi

im only looking for a parts unit/movement...this was too rich for me...lol

yes my dutch name is Hans(Johannes)...lol...when i moved to new zealand back in 1980...i soon changed it to John.


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## americankiwi

Been a while since i last posted

Update...i have my 701B up and running again!

now i also have started a small spare parts collection!

i ended up gutting 2 movements...one i can re-assemble and make a

franken watch from

i also picked up 2 new bracelets in the right style

next is to replace the crystal...its badly scrached up

i had to use the "LINK" as site is telling me i cant insert pictures, one of the new bracelets is'nt in the pictures

My link


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## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> i had to use the "LINK" as site is telling me i cant insert pictures, one of the new bracelets is'nt in the pictures
> 
> My link


No you didn't (have to). You should have inserted the Photobucket image code - like this:


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## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> next is to replace the crystal...its badly scratched up


See the bottom of page 3 of this thread: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=66398&st=30

The original Seiko crystal p/n 300WF0GN00 is unfortunately obsolete and NLA.

You'll need a Sternkreuz p/n XMF 300.860 - a pretty close-appearing substitute.


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## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> I also picked up 2 new bracelets in the right style ....


The one you have fitted looks pretty close to the original Seiko bracelet. :thumbsup: What is it ? :huh:


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## americankiwi

it is a Seiko bracelet, i got them out of florida

the # is B1424-E?


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## SEIKO7A38

So then, a Seiko p/n B1424S. :thumbsup: Fancy me not recognizing that. :bag:

There were some photos posted of 7A38-701B on such a replacement bracelet, in a thread on MWR forum, in July 2009.

See: *First Post, Seiko "Vulcan"* I did reference the thread, back on page 4, but wrongly guessed at the bracelet fitted:



SEIKO7A38 said:


> The original Z1118 bracelets which they were fitted with were notoriously fragile (for such a heavy watch case) and stretched very easily. Hence the slightly incorrect non-standard replacement (I think it's a B1688) Seiko bracelet that 'Robb' has had fitted on his beater 7A38-701B.


It's the one on the left of this photo. The pristine example on the right is fitted with the correct original p/n Z1118S bracelet:












> I had tried at a good Seiko stockists to obtain the correct bracelet for the old one before, but they could not track one down, however when I got the new watch complete with bracelet they had something to work from and managed to get me one.














> As yet I haven't managed to get a clear shot of the watch back, will post if I do


A couple of days later, when he did post them, the B1424.E stamping was clearly visible on that one's bracelet:


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## americankiwi

I asked the seller if he had any more of these B1424-E's..he said he could get me more, but not untill after the new year...i will keep you posted

im going to order 2 more..

looking at the edges of the bracelet..the original is more rounded off..the Pulsar bracelet is a better match...the only thing wrong

would be where the 20mm pin goes through , it doesnt run the full length of the bracelet its part # is "079MK-E"

the other thing too would be the finish of these...the new Seiko i got is more a brushed stainless...where as the original was just a fine matt sand blasted finish,

but it wouldnt be hard to do that to a new one

he also said i would be first on the list if any 7A's came in (he's a used dealer)

i built up a franken watch..it will work untill i find another black face day dial

i didnt know the 7A's came in diff size cases too..the one i got the other day is a lot smaller


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## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> I asked the seller if he had any more of these B1424-E's..he said he could get me more, but not untill after the new year...
> 
> i will keep you posted. im going to order 2 more..


If you could order 2 more besides, *for me*, John - I'd appreciate it. :cheers:

Whereas you say, it's not a perfect match for the original p/n Z1118S, it's marginally better than the Seiko p/n B1688S.

Not necessarily for use on my 7A38-701x's, I hasten to add, but a couple of my Orient J39's both need better bracelets.

Their watch cases have a very similar 20mm hooded lug arrangement. Here's one of them on a Seiko p/n G1410S bracelet:



SEIKO7A38 said:


> So I've fitted a Seiko p/n G1410S, for the time being, which goes quite well, with a matching brushed finish Orient clasp:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slightly better photo, posted elsewhere:


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## SEIKO7A38

Duplicate post !


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## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> stainless...where as the original was just a fine matt sand blasted finish,


I thought that, at first, but if you examine them closely, they've got a kind of silver anodised 'sprayed' finish.

Check out this really old thread, from when I was still a relative 7A38 newbie: Correct Finish For A Seiko 7a38-7010 ?  :duh:



americankiwi said:


> but it wouldnt be hard to do that to a new one ....


You might achieve a better result by spraying it with a silver (steel) colored aerosol paint. :think:


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## americankiwi

After writing that last post thought i would look up the watch i just bought...it was a franken watch before i got it too

dial/case is a 7270 , but the case back has a 7010 stamping SN# 395949

also has wrong bracelet...right style but feels wrong


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## americankiwi

SEIKO7A38 said:


> americankiwi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I asked the seller if he had any more of these B1424-E's..he said he could get me more, but not untill after the new year...
> 
> i will keep you posted. im going to order 2 more..
> 
> 
> 
> If you could order 2 more besides, *for me*, John - I'd appreciate it. :cheers:
> 
> Whereas you say, it's not a perfect match for the original p/n Z1118S, it's marginally better than the Seiko p/n B1688S.
> 
> Not necessarily for use on my 7A38-701x's, I hasten to add, but a couple of my Orient J39's both need better bracelets.
> 
> Their watch cases have a very similar 20mm hooded lug arrangement.
Click to expand...

 OK...will do...he charges $15US each...im not trying to make on the deal

would you be able to help me out too?...im still looking for a black "day" dial...i dont want to part out another watch if i can help it...to fix the 7270 i just bought..as i like the look of this piece too...lol...i think i might mod the pulsar bracelet to fit this...as i dont like the bracelet thats on it now...

to be honest..the seiko one on it now feels like a chinese knock off!..it says its stainless...but weighs like a alloy...too light!!


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## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> OK...will do...he charges $15US each...im not trying to make on the deal


$15 each would be fine, John. 



americankiwi said:


> would you be able to help me out too?...im still looking for a black "day" dial...


I have recently bought a Junghans High Tech (effectively another re-cased Seiko 7A38) - or two. 

See this thread: Junghans High Tech â€" Yet Another Non-Seiko 7A38

One of them has a black day wheel (and a white date ring), which is obviously wrong. :thumbsdown:

I'll be swapping it out in the new year, once I've found a white English / German day wheel.

It's then as good as yours. :wink2:


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## americankiwi

I just sent him a email asking to order 4 more B1424-E 's...i could use them somewhere down the line too..lol

he's been fast to respond to my emails so far...sit back and wait now..lol

the day wheel on this watch is no good..or we could of done a swap...damn it..lol

i picked up another Seiko, do you know if its a good watch or junk?

its a V657-8069 chrono

did you see the sample 7A38 on ebay?..# 160700404353


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## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> did you see the sample 7A38 on ebay?..# 160700404353


The 7A38-7029 sample case from '49Ronnie' ? Of course I did, John - I was the opening bidder. :grin:

Can we please try to keep the thread on topic ? :wink2:

So here's one for you. Did you see item # 110792829357 on eBay Germany last week ?



> *Seiko Chronograph Uhr Taucher*












It's a non runner, but could make an interesting little Winter re-build project. :hammer:

What was the original title of this thread ? :huh:

Cheap Seiko 7A38-701B 'RAF Vulcan' On Ebay ....


----------



## americankiwi

Did you get it?...that was a cheap watch


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## americankiwi

SEIKO7A38..now i have a problem...i did the face replacement on the 701B from the working 7270...it ran good for 2 days...now the watch has stopped

what i mean is..the time hands dont move anymore but everything else still works...pull the crown out one click..i can reset the chrono hands

stop watch still works..i can start and stop it...but thats it...no hand movement..the sec's hand is still running..any ideas?


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## SEIKO7A38

americankiwi said:


> SEIKO7A38..now i have a problem....no hand movement..the sec's hand is still running..any ideas?


Slipping cannon pinion ?  See various articles: WUS or HERE and TZ and recently HERE and HERE on :rltb:



Dusty said:


> NickMoodie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Mike. Now to show my ignorance, is the cannon pinion the tiny tube with cogs on one end that slips over the 'central post' ? If so, should this be a firm fit (friction) ?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and Yes, should be enough friction to drive the hands but allow for hand setting.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, on the 7A38 movement, the equivalent 'centre wheel' is in the middle of the train wheel bridge. :fear:










As you can see from this thread: (FAILED) Seiko 7A38 Repairer ? - I don't go there unless absolutely neccessary. :bag:


----------

