# Old Pocket Watch Repair Help



## philjopa (May 18, 2005)

I was given this a while ago by my mum. Its probably about 100 years old and is complete with the original winder. The dial is porcelain and the case hallmarked silver. Its a non-runner.

I've managed to open it all up and the movement looks intact as far as I can see. Its engraved J G Graves SHEFFIELD reversing pinion 763601. The balance wheel moves freely if you give it a gentle push and it starts the second hand going for a few seconds but thats it. It wont wind any further when you use the winding key. The winding key is also used to set the hands.

Anybody got any ideas as to whats most likely wrong with it? According to my mum it was working OK many years ago and it'd be nice to get it running again.


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

philjopa said:


> I was given this a while ago by my mum. Its probably about 100 years old and is complete with the original winder. The dial is porcelain and the case hallmarked silver. Its a non-runner.
> 
> I've managed to open it all up and the movement looks intact as far as I can see. Its engraved J G Graves SHEFFIELD reversing pinion 763601. The balance wheel moves freely if you give it a gentle push and it starts the second hand going for a few seconds but thats it. It wont wind any further when you use the winding key. The winding key is also used to set the hands.
> 
> Anybody got any ideas as to whats most likely wrong with it? According to my mum it was working OK many years ago and it'd be nice to get it running again.


Sounds like it is worth investing in a service if, when the balance rotates, the second hand moves as there doesn't appear to be much wrong.

Shouldn't cost too much but get a quote first and maybe only deal with a watchmaker that specialises in pocket watches.

Maybe someone in the forum knows a reputable watchmaker to service your pocket watch.

Roy


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## Icon (Jul 20, 2006)

philjopa said:


> Anybody got any ideas as to whats most likely wrong with it? According to my mum it was working OK many years ago and it'd be nice to get it running again.


Ah, the classic "It seems to be overwound". My favourite. If the balance oscillates a couple of times and then stops, it's 98% certain that the oil in the various bearings has converted to a varnish/gel/sludge. If it's not run in anyone's memory, then the oils are vegetable or animal based - neat's foot oil, porpoise jaw oil (seriously!) and no doubt unicorn horn oil too. The watch has a pretty low 'energy budget', and it doesn't take much excess friction to stop it - the oxidised oils do a very good job of this. Would-be 'helpers' armed with a feather and some kitchen cooking oil don't help. To start with, a fully wound spring will have the 'oomph' to overcome this friction - the watch will stop only as the spring starts to unwind. Eventually, of course, even a fully wound spring won't get it moving, and you're left with a fully wound watch that won't go. "It's overwound"!

The other 2%; if it *always* runs for the same number of seconds, then stops, it may be that the escape wheel has some damage.

Keywind pocket watches are inherently simple creatures. The absence of the keyless works saves a lot of complication - you're directly winding the spring and setting the time. The seconds subdial runs straight off a long pivot on the wheel following the escape wheel, that just happens to rotate once per minute. The watch will need dismantling, inspecting, re-assembling and lubricating, after which it will likely run very well. The mainspring may have taken a 'set' from being fully wound for so long, but they are surprisingly cheap to replace. Oh, and you'll need a jeweller to make you a new bow.

I started servicing watches after taking an old pocket watch to Michlmayrs in Norwich for an estimate. I was quoted Â£150 and six months. I have absolutely no reason to believe that Â£150 isn't a perfectly reasonable price for the work, and if you just want someone to do it, then I would recommend them highly - they've done other work for me in the past. However this time, in my arrogance and naivety, I thought that given 6 months and Â£150, I might be able to learn enough to do the work myself. Well 6 months has not been far off, but Â£150 went by some time ago... The pleasure of getting old watches to run again is priceless, however.

Regards

John


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## philjopa (May 18, 2005)

Icon said:


> philjopa said:
> 
> 
> > Anybody got any ideas as to whats most likely wrong with it? According to my mum it was working OK many years ago and it'd be nice to get it running again.
> ...


Thats an interesting post John - it almost sounds like I should consider "dismantling" it myself







do you (per chance) carry out your own repairs?


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## Icon (Jul 20, 2006)

philjopa said:


> Thats an interesting post John - it almost sounds like I should consider "dismantling" it myself
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I certainly wouldn't make it your _first_ job; that would be asking for trouble. But if you were at all mechanically inclined, you could start with a cheap, tatty pocket watch of no sentimental value - there are enough of them about! - and see if you can dismantle it without breaking anything, and re-assemble it. If it's a known runner before you start, however poorly, then you have a fair idea that it should run when you've finished. If you 'put the word about' that you're interested in old mechanical watches, a surprising number seem to appear out of drawers. I've picked up several 'cheapies' on the sales forum here - a lovely Smiths boy's watch for Â£7.50, for example. Resist chronographs, perpetual calendars and so on for the time being!

A limited range of tools is required to begin, and there are many good books around - Practical Watch Repairing by De Carle being an example. When you feel you're ready, then have at your pocket watch.

This is the route I took, anyway. I may do the BHI course in '07, and discover that I've been doing it all wrong!

(Yes, I do repair my own.)

Regards

John


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

philjopa said:


> Anybody got any ideas as to whats most likely wrong with it? According to my mum it was working OK many years ago and it'd be nice to get it running again.


Phil,

I doubt that anyone is going to know what is wrong with it without seeing it. I would take it to a local trustworthy watchmaker and ask them. Unfortuanetly it will cost quite a bit I would think to put right.

If you want me to have a look at it for you and let you know what the problem is then I will but as these pocket watches are now approx 100 years they do suffer from a lot of wear and I cannot promise anything other than to have a look.


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## philjopa (May 18, 2005)

As Ron said, thats a generous offer from Roy. I think that John's advice is also sound - leave it to the experts! If its OK Roy, I'll take you up on your offer and let you have a look in the New Year.

Just out of curiousity, if per chance I wanted to have a tinker around with an old watch/pocket watch to see if I could take it all to bits and then re-assemble it, whats the best sort of thing to try this out on? Where'd you start? Is an old pocket watch with a basic movement best? It'd certainly be a bit easier to see than a wristwatch movement!


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Pocket watch would probably be easier or a small alarm clock.


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