# A Sucker For Type-1'S



## Worzel (Jan 12, 2010)

Iâ€™m a sucker for Type-1 Russians and this had hung around the bay like bait on a hook until I just had to swallow it.

Before bidding I did some pretty exhaustive research including a study of all Mark Gordonâ€™s Type-1â€™s. I drew a blank everywhere and could not find a reference to this configuration.

The movement is definitely a Type-1, the same as my other 4 Type-1â€™s - this particular one is marked Zlatoust 1955. The dial logo is FMWF and a bit wonky, but I accept the dial has been re-furbished. The hands differ from my 4 other watches but Markâ€™s site has a few with similar hands and I also have a couple of Type-1 â€œTankâ€ clocks with the same hands, also Zlatoust.

The thing I had never seen before was the sub dial at 5 Oâ€™clock showing hours. Fixed at four hours ahead (or 8 hours behind) of whatever you set the main hour hand too and no apparent way to adjust that differential. The watch winds and all three dials work fine.

Anyone seen another? or have any information.

Cheers

Worzel


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## Worzel (Jan 12, 2010)

Just a thought, perhaps if the main hour hand was not there, the whole thing would make more sense







.


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## bsa (Dec 23, 2010)

I find that very interesting if i had seen it i would of had a go.

So you think the centre hour hand should not be there at all?

Mark


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## Worzel (Jan 12, 2010)

bsa said:


> I find that very interesting if i had seen it i would of had a go.
> 
> So you think the centre hour hand should not be there at all?
> 
> Mark


Mark,

Wish I could say. I'm just :wallbash:.

To be honest, it was on the bay twice and from a UK seller. The first time he started it at half the current going rate for a normal Type-1 and it didn't get a single bid - I didn't bid because I thought it might be a wrong'n. But when it came back on at a lower starting price I convinced myself it was worth a punt. When I got it without a fight, I was even more worried.

I am hoping to get some opinions as to its authenticity, so please feel free to chip in.


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

I have no knowledge of this watch but... perhaps the watches came from the factory set to be used in a particular time zone. The subdial showing Moscow and the central hour hand showing local. If this is the case, it would be a simple matter for the factory (or local watchmaker) to reposition one of the hands for a new zone. It would be a bit awkward, but cost effective way to do dual time zones. :dontgetit:

Later,

William


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## Worzel (Jan 12, 2010)

William_Wilson said:


> I have no knowledge of this watch but... perhaps the watches came from the factory set to be used in a particular time zone. The subdial showing Moscow and the central hour hand showing local. If this is the case, it would be a simple matter for the factory (or local watchmaker) to reposition one of the hands for a new zone. It would be a bit awkward, but cost effective way to do dual time zones. :dontgetit:
> 
> Later,
> 
> William


William,

What you say makes sense.

Pity the authenticity of the dial has a question mark against it.

Still researching and still hoping someone will recognize it.

:wallbash:


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## Worzel (Jan 12, 2010)

:blow:

I emailed Mark Gordon for an opinion - here is what he said.

"Hello Alan

This watch is a modern fake. In fact, no regulator movement of any kind was ever produced by any factory in the Soviet Union... Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Mark"

:groan: So now your all free to tell me you though so.

Anyway, I like it - it was only Â£38 so I'm going to take the main hour hand off and accept it for what it is - a genuine Type-1 movement modified to resemble a regulator. I still can't understand why someone would bother to go to so much trouble, to make such a fake, when all the ingredients were there to make a watch currently fetching around Â£100.

Does that mean I have to resign ?:banned:


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## KevG (Dec 15, 2008)

Another thought Worzel somebody has taken a fair bit of time and trouble to put this together. It could be that this is what they personally wanted from it and there was no intention to deceive anybody else. after all there are a lot of modders about now why not in the past decade or so in Russia or wherever. Take off the hour hand, I'd agree it would make more sense and a decent looking watch with a nice movement.

My 2 pennorth

Kev


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## Worzel (Jan 12, 2010)

KevG said:


> Another thought Worzel somebody has taken a fair bit of time and trouble to put this together. It could be that this is what they personally wanted from it and there was no intention to deceive anybody else. after all there are a lot of modders about now why not in the past decade or so in Russia or wherever. Take off the hour hand, I'd agree it would make more sense and a decent looking watch with a nice movement.
> 
> My 2 pennorth
> 
> Kev


A much welcomed 2 pennyworth, thanks Kev


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## stefano34 (Sep 27, 2009)

I love type 1's and would have bid on it but was in France...doh! anyway authentic or not it looks ok to me but yes I think remove the hour hand, failing that set it to another time zone.

I also wonder why these are 'modded' or messed about with as they fetch better money left alone usually!


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## Worzel (Jan 12, 2010)

stefano34 said:


> I love type 1's and would have bid on it but was in France...doh! anyway authentic or not it looks ok to me but yes I think remove the hour hand, failing that set it to another time zone.
> 
> I also wonder why these are 'modded' or messed about with as they fetch better money left alone usually!


Thanks for the positive comments.

I've decided that the watch may well be a straight 'special' - it makes more sense.


I have to respect Mark's view that it's a fake (I accept it is not a regulator), but he is quoted elsewhere as saying that the Soviets had a history of modifying Type-1's as specials.
The time difference of 4 hours 8 hours happens to be the difference between Moscow and Washington DC.
The case is superior to my other four Type-1's, not a sign of rust and very small traces of brassing - it cleaned-up like silver.
The dial is not the usual faked "WWII pilots watch", it's simply modified to display the sub hours.
Like you, I think, why bother to mod up a fake when there was no financial gain.

Anyway here she is cleaned and with a new strap... My Dual-time Type-1


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## bsa (Dec 23, 2010)

I would be very happy indeed to wear that.


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