# United Goal



## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

I see Sir Alex has found video evidence that the ball in the controversial Tottenham "goal" did *NOT* cross the line!


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Good picture PG!

Yet another "home" decision for United


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2005)

Hilarious.









My eldest son is a Spurs supporter so it didn't go down too well with him.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

There was no doubt in Shawn Wright Phillips's goal against Arsenal!!


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

A good night for Chelsea I think ... not only did they beat the 'Boro









Arsenal and Man. United drawing has perhaps given them the title.


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## LuvWatch (May 14, 2004)

Superb save in my opinion - up the reds!









Derek


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

LuvWatch said:


> Superb save in my opinion - up the reds!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Whats the odds on Alex buying a new keeper?


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

That club can use tons of







to buy them in or out of anything; and that's the point..............the game's too full of it.........and after that decision it's also becoming more full of crap!!!


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

So are you saying Griff that if Man City was a good business and made lots of money all over the world, bought and sold good players etc that you would stop supporting them ?


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

What we need is a good socialist league: where everybody gets paid the same, everybody has the same number of players, every ground has the same number of seats and if a club got too successful then measures would be taken to bring it in line with the poorer preformers. That way everything would be equitable


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Roy said:


> So are you saying Griff that if Man City was a good business and made lots of money all over the world, bought and sold good players etc that you would stop supporting them ?


 I'm saying what I think, and I think some clubs have too much money and can pay such massively inflated prices for players that it causes too much of an imbalance for smaller less well off clubs. I want clubs like Blackpool and Bury and Oldham to survive, so that British players can make the big time, and not just players from big clubs abroad. I don't believe ANYONE is worth Â£75,000 + per game, but it is that kind of barmy money that is giving the smaller and poorer clubs no chance in hell.

Man City's financial deficit is besides the point, and one that doesn't cut any ice with me, but the way it is going there will be a new Super Duper Premier league with just 4 clubs in it who'll have to play each other till they all disappear up their own orifices.

The disallowed goal doesn't serve the interests of the game!


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

So what's your solution Griff?

Re-distribution of wealth perhaps?

I would rather not go back to the days of muddy pitches, piss stinking terraces and warm Oxo.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Griff said:


> The disallowed goal doesn't serve the interests of the game!


Neither does the blatent penalty that should have been given to United but the Ref thought it was outside the box.









I wish I could earn Â£75,000 a week. Good luck to 'em, in my opinion.

Success brings money and but money does not always bring success, look at Leeds.









The only clubs complaining are the ones with neither.

I do not agree with some rich people buying success as Chelsea's case but

Man United's marketing and strategy have brought the money in and keep it rolling in.

They should be admired for this.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

FOOTBALL USED to be called "the people's game". Not any more. The professional game now mirrors Blair's Britain, with a growing gap between the handful of rich clubs at the top of the Premiership and the also-rans in the Nationwide leagues. Clubs used to be owned by local businessmen with big cheque books and even bigger egos. But now the top clubs are listed on the stock exchange and are controlled by the City of London institutions.

The game has changed out of all recognition in the past ten years, since Rupert Murdoch's Sky television channel organised a coup with the Football Association that led to the breakaway of the top clubs and the creation of the Premiership. The handful of the richest clubs - Manchester United and Arsenal in particular - have annual turnovers running into millions.

Manchester United can afford to pay its players vast salaries as a result of the enormous income the club earns from sales of merchandise, TV rights and, of course, the 60,000 fans who pack Old Trafford for home games.

The one thing that hasn't changed is that football is still followed by mainly working class supporters and played by men from working class backgrounds. But there's now a yawning gap between fans and players. Peter Reid, the manager brought in to save Leeds United from relegation, had to remind his under-performing stars that they were all millionaires who owed their wealth to the fans and needed to make more effort on the pitch.

Meanwhile, the fans dig deep from our modest incomes to pay inflated ticket prices. But even the high price of tickets may not help some clubs survive.

West Ham has been relegated from the Premiership. In a desperate attempt to keep in touch with the top clubs, the Hammers paid absurdly inflated salaries to attract and keep players such as Paolo Di Canio.

It spent a fortune rebuilding and extending its East London ground. The club has accumulated debts of Â£45 million. It will lose an estimated Â£15 million as a result of relegation. It can only stem the losses by selling its best players, which is a recipe for decline and floundering around in the lower reaches of the First Division. The smart new ground at Upton Park holds 36,000, but how many will turn up on a wet Friday night when the opposition is Ipswich or Norwich, rather than the great London rivals from Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham?

In common with several other once successful clubs, West Ham could easily slip into administration, which means it will be run by its banks instead of the shareholders. If the debts become unmanageable, the banks could pull the plug and the club would be declared bankrupt.

West Ham e.g. has been relegated several times. Before the Premiership, relegation was sad but not terminal. Gates remained high because the club kept its squad together and continued to play attractive football against other good teams.

But now greed dominates. Murdoch's aim was simple - to create a footballing elite whose matches would be watched by millions on television. With the collapse of ITV Digital, which offered television exposure and income for Nationwide clubs, the gap between rich and poor gets ever bigger. People's game? Phooey. It's Rupert Murdoch's rich man's game.

But mugs will go on stumping up for tickets to support the clubs we love and hope against hope that they will survive and perhaps even win a trophy.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

I do not really want to see Man Utd play clubs like Tottenham and Man City who blatently go out two draw games against Man Utd. They may as well play a 5-5-0 formation, oh they did.









No wonder they can't get success if they can't be bothered to try to win games.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Griff you have made it clear that you don't like the way football has evolved ... but what is your solution???


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

I'm not 100% sure about that, but maybe the coup between the FA and Sky should be re-examined. Maybe football should go back to normal TV or digital with Government support. Maybe there should be a ceiling and freezing on club tickets, and a max set for transfers.............I don't know..............but I would like to see football become more reasonably available to ordinary viewers. A lot of the rot came in with Murdock's Sky, and I hate the way it has gone, as described in my earlier post. I would also like to see the FA more involved with training kids in football from schools upwards, and a fairer way of funding smaller local clubs. I refuse to belive it can't be made better and less driven by financial greed.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Griff said:


> I refuse to belive it can't be made better and less driven by financial greed.


 I agree Griff but the vital word in that sentence is MADE. Somebody will have to MAKE it happen by force and legislation of somekind and i don't think that will ever happen.


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2005)

JoT said:


> I would rather not go back to the days of muddy pitches, piss stinking terraces and warm Oxo.


..........aahh heaven.









Back in those days everybody could afford to go to the game, it was a reasonably priced entertainment that locals would look forward to all week.

They would go and support their local team. Walk there or catch the bus.

Footballers were kept on a maximum wage limit so they weren't that much better off than the supporters.

I don't like what has happened to football nowadays with so-so millionaire players and cheap imports coming in from abroad to the detriment of young home grown players.

Now a large core of supporters at matches are corporate clients in their boxes "The prawn sandwich" brigade as Roy Keane put it. Even he missed the grass roots supporters at the games.

My family have a box at Crystal Palace, I've been quite a few times but the atmosphere is frigid, it's not the same.

I have no solutions, I don't know what could be done, the maximum wage could not be brought back.

Sign of the times maybe?


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## Jules (Aug 2, 2004)

You know something Neil ... I enjoyed warm Oxo too!!























It's funny to think that football became popular when the mass workforce was allowed to have Saturday afternoons off and football expanded to fill the void.

My wife's grandfather was a bricklayer in the week and a league professional footballer on Saturdays ... back in the 30's. Lace-up tops, "shorts" to the knee and only a few shillings per game - but better than that apparently, he had his boots paid for!


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I also look back on how football was with a degree of sentimentality; in the same way I look back on coal fires, steam trains, tie-dye shirts and Austin A40's.

But I am sure I don't want to go back to them!

Football is a world game, you can't blame the clubs. It is controlled by FIFA and UEFA; the game in this country cannot formulate its own rules, they have to be approved by both these bodies. It is also bound by EU employement regulations.

I don't buy that football is driven by financial greed; there are few clubs in the world that make money. The players are a rare commodity ... supply and demand dictates their price.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

We had an A40 when we were kids, drivers door wouldn't open so everybody had to pile in from the passenger door! Hand brake never worked either and my mum is crap at hill starts, good job there ain't any hills round here









Haven't been to a game in 10 years so can't comment. But even the POSH have managed a new stand so all 4 have roofs now


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

JoT said:


> I don't buy that football is driven by financial greed; there are few clubs in the world that make money. The players are a rare commodity ... supply and demand dictates their price.


 So Murdoch is in it for the love of the game is he!


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Griff said:


> JoT said:
> 
> 
> > I don't buy that football is driven by financial greed; there are few clubs in the world that make money. The players are a rare commodity ... supply and demand dictates their price.
> ...


 Murdoch isn't football Griff ... he is a broadcaster. You said that the clubs were driven by greed


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

The greed is in the players demands for hyper inflated wages. It is these excessive demands for hideously high wages that is ruining the game.

Remember Patrick Kluivert denying accusations he signed for Newcastle for the money, insisting: "I'm no mercenary."

Kluivert told the Sunday Sun newspaper: "The accusations that I'm driven by money are nonsense. Who believes that................not me!!

I blame wealthy clubs like Man U for paying these wages. It means smaller local clubs cant afford to keep or pay for top players. This greed is ruining the game.

Money may not be the root of all evil, but its ability to taint is becoming acutely apparent. Soccer's rapid commercialization is producing a playing field that is not so even at the level that counts â€" the clubs that grow the talent and produce the stars to dazzle the crowds. The rich get richer because they can afford the high-priced players that attract the fans and investors; many of the rest dig deeper into debt as they seek to emulate that strategy, gambling that hired guns will lift them into the top bracket. Meanwhile, traditional fans find themselves shut out by exorbitant ticket price increases and costly pay-per-view TV charges

When the Premiership began, the 22 clubs who formed it, and the Football Association (FA), who until then represented all clubs, league and non-league, took the decision to break with over a hundred years of tradition, where money was shared out amongst all member clubs, and found its way down to non league and grassroots football.

From then on, the top clubs would take the lionâ€™s share of the money available, and, as far as they were concerned, the rest could â€˜go to the wall`.

Real supporters of all clubs do care about the plight of other clubs. The death of one club could trigger a domino effect throughout football. Do we want to be left with just the Premiership? There is no loyalty by either club or player. The Stock Exchange decides who manages teams, as was the case with Kevin Keegan, who was told to resign from Newcastle Utd. in 1997.

Sponsors, who already deface our clubâ€™s shirts, also put pressure on teams. Brazil were allegedly forced through a gruelling tour before the 1998 World Cup by their sponsors, Nike. It is even rumoured that they insisted that Ronaldo played in the final, despite his injury.

Sky TV, and the other digital companies also have the power to change the time and date of fixtures. That is why we have games on Monday/ Thursday/Friday nights and Sunday evenings. Most fans would like football to be on a Saturday afternoon and either Tuesday or Wednesday evenings.

Some of the top clubs resemble a travelling circus, just a collection of highly paid mercenaries, who take their huge wages and move on to another Euro Super Club Corporation the following season.

Directors and companies buy into football for a quick profit. Betting syndicates `fixâ€™ matches, thousands of tickets are sold as part of corporate hospitality deals to the rich and businessmen. The real fans are the losers. How many thousands of working class fans of Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester United, Liverpool, Leeds United, etc, have been cut off from the game in the last ten years, priced out of the game they love, unable to take their kids, the next generation?

If you want to take yourself and three children to the cinema in Central London it will cost you Â£30. If you want to go to a Premier league match, it would cost at least Â£100.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Don't you just love capitalism









Griff in the days that you so fondly remember the players were paid a pitance, had nothing for there future after football and many were left crippled by years of poor medical care and being forced to play with injuries. At the same time the club owners creamed off the considerable profits. Now it seem to me the club owners keep pumping money into the clubs .... my team, Middlesbrough are a Premier leauge team because the Chairman has put Â£35 million of his own money into the club and the players ... the working class heroes







... are finally getting paid well.

So what's the problem now? I will tell you what it is ... the superstars of today are not deemed to be "working class" in some quarters and are therefore subject to the type of attack you have just made on them. They are not greedy, they are gifted individuals with a rare skill and they get paid what they are deemed to be worth.

Money hasnt ruined the game IMO, it has changed the game for the better. The only thing I have a problem with in the modern game is the influx of foreign players. It is bad for our national teams, I would like to see an overseas player limit in the Premier leauge and no overseas players in the lower divisions. Trouble is EU employement law forbids this, so you would only be able to block players from Africa, South America and so on .... then you are in danger of being branded racist!

By the way the FA pumps more money into the game than it ever has done, right down to grass roots level.

As for much of your other comments; I really hope that you have C&P from another website ..... it's claptrap IMHO


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

No.............I don't love Capitalism...............what the hell then................let that Yank get Man U or maybe Murdoch. The latter went for it recently. That seems to be a logical outcome of your thinking. Ask the fans about that!!!


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

JoT said:


> Now it seem to me the club owners keep pumping money into the clubs .... my team, Middlesbrough are a Premier leauge team because the Chairman has put Â£35 million of his own money into the club and the players ... the working class heroes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think that Boro's case is an anomoly John, you are in the fortunate position of having an philanthropic owner who appears to be a long term genuine supporter, you are lucky. For as long his haulage business is in rude health anyway.........

As for McClaren he has got more front than O'Dreary, he wants his arse kicking for not being in the top four minimum! You won't be in that top 4 of course because the vast sums in wages paid to Viduka, Hassailbank, Parlour etc are unltimately squandered as they don't really want to be there and are all on a downward career slope.

TV figures are down, the bubble has burst, there is only so many times you can flog Man U V Widsew Lodz in the Champions league on a Wed night or Norwich V Charlton as a "must see" game. Everton are enjoying their best season for yonks and yet their % gate fall is among the worst. Frankly I and most other non-premiership supporter are overdosed, I could not give a monkey's fart who wins the Prem, as if it is important OR of more than a passing interest to us









Money, it is too expensive to enter a Prem ground, need proof, look for families, not a lot of them, it is NOT value for money, a whole generation of kids will not have the habit of going to live football and that is terrible. What price the TV rights in 5 years time? What about the players contracts then? European football is not the holy grail for SKY, they want a true global game, without US interest TV rights won't hold up, you might laugh but I expect to see a hybrid of League and Union Rugby promoted by Sky in the not too distant future if that takes off then footie will be in big trouble.,

The vast majority of Prem players are NOT worth their wages, they are not stars, they do not draw a crowd, who go's to see Gary Neville, Danny Murphy, Gary Mills, I could go on and yet I bet none are on less than Â£30k a week, you cannot justify it. For Rooney, Ronanldo, Reyes, Henry, pay them whatever because they ARE worth it, they have exceptional talent. The TV money has been squandered, we could have had all weather facilities in every neighborhood sponsored by the local clubs but the moneys gone, it's no longer in the game, a golden opportunity missed.

In the past decade I've seen my tean go from where they are now to the Prem and back again, it's wasn't worth the effort. It's a booby prize, there is no point in a small town club accepting entry into the Prem it'll only end in tears, a depressing season of heavy defeats, contract squabbles and vast debts and take the carrot away and a big part of footballs attraction has gone.

Griff, football clubs won't go to the wall, no company or individual is going to want to be seen responsible for the demise of a community's football club. It won't happen, it is always threatened but just like Bradford, they will enter administration and make their debts vanish, in our case 36 million, it's easy, everybody does it


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Griff said:


> No.............I don't love Capitalism...............what the hell then................let that Yank get Man U or maybe Murdoch. The latter went for it recently. That seems to be a logical outcome of your thinking. Ask the fans about that!!!


 Don't worry Griff ... City is safe ...


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

JoT said:


> Griff you have made it clear that you don't like the way football has evolved ... but what is your solution???


 Here is a solution..............not the claptrap adjective that you like to use, but what I believe to be a proper answer. I wont accept that there isn't an alternative to the utter ***** we have in football today. There is always another way:

How Football Should be Run

We, the fans, can force change. The work of the Campaign against ID Cards, which organised thousands of fans against Thatcherâ€™s proposed ID card scheme, with demonstrations at matches, meetings of fans at different clubs and a lobby of Parliament, helped force her Tory government to abandon the scheme. Tragically, it took the deaths of 96 Liverpool fans to finally force Thatcher to back down.

Unfortunately, as well as abandoning the ID scheme, the government accepted the recommendation in the Taylor Report, post-Hillsborough for all-seater stadiums. Two years earlier, in the FA Cup semi-final between Spurs and Wolves at Hillsborough, a similar tragedy nearly occurred. The authorities had learnt nothing. We saw a glimpse of the solidarity between fans as a result of the Hillsborough tragedy when collections were held at every ground; more than Â£1m was raised for the dead fansâ€™ dependants.

This is the real face of football â€" not the isolated hooligan problem, which is blown out of all proportion, to fill the pages of the Mirror and the Sun and even the `serious` press.

The Premier League and all-seater stadiums have brought much higher prices. Fans, who see football as a social occasion, where they would meet up on the terraces as a group to enjoy the chants and rivalry with the other club`s fans, have suffered. This is as much part of the occasion as the match itself. Supporters have been forced to sit down (although more and more of us are resisting) and unless a block of seats can be reserved together, they get dispersed around the ground.

In many cases, this has helped to kill the atmosphere. Many former regulars have stopped going since the enforced transition to all-seaters, regardless of ticket prices, which have rocketed into the stratosphere. We demand that a certain percentage of each ground in all divisions should be set aside for fans who want to stand. Terracing can be just as safe as seating if the clubs spend the money to make it safe.

Governing body

The game needs to be run by a democratically elected governing body. This should be on the basis of each club balloting their members to elect their representative and the PFA and staff electing one delegate per club. This would create a truly democratic governing body, which would have the interests of football, not the profit motive, at heart.

Democratic control

At the moment, unelected boards run the different clubs. If we are to reclaim the game then a democratic structure is needed. Fans, players, club staff and the local community should all be represented on a club`s board. We understand the Supporters Direct Fans Trustâ€™s demands for seats on the board, and the setting up at Chesterfield of a fans` co-operative. However, these demands do not go far enough.

We would recommend that the fans, who are the game`s biggest sponsors, should, through their official and unofficial supporters` clubs â€" where they represent a significant number â€" initiate a democratic club membership.

This would elect a third of the board. The players and staff should elect the second third of the board, with the final third being elected by the local, elected authority, because the local community should be represented to ensure club facilities are used for their benefit. Most clubs were originally formed by working-class people. We must regain control of our clubs before they are destroyed by the ruthless quest for profit.

Bring back the terraces

Cheap and safe terracing should be brought back to our grounds. In Germany fans were consulted about what sort of stadia they wanted. In England they just went ahead and got rid of the cheap terracing and replaced them with expensive seats.

Scrap the Premier League

The â€˜greed is good leagueâ€™ should be scrapped. Football revenue including the monies from TV should be shared out more evenly between all the teams in the four divisions.

Revenue should also go to non-league clubs and grass roots football.There should be a return to the pre-1981 arrangement where â€˜awayâ€™ teams kept a share of the gate reciepts.

There should be two up two down between the fourth division and the Conference league.

Admission prices

Prices should be limited to a reasonable amount â€" Â£5 to Â£8. Â£13 to Â£40 or more is a rip-off. Prices for children under eleven should be nominal, otherwise a whole generation will be lost to the game. School students between eleven and 18, Senior Citizens, the unemployed and those on benefits should only pay half price for both terracing and seats. The supporters` clubs should be involved in discussions on price rises and away fans should be charged the same as home supporters, with half price for children.

Policing/stewarding

The policing at our grounds also needs to be monitored and controlled by the fans. Many ejections from the ground occur for very trivial things and the police attitude to supporters can be very confrontational both inside and outside the ground.

Stewards, under the control of the supporters` clubs, should be used inside the ground with the visiting clubâ€™s fans being in charge of their own stewarding.

Facilities

Priority has to be given to people with disabilities. The current Green Guide should be implemented. This would guarantee that fans in disabled areas would have a clear view of the pitch, even when people in front are standing. The entire disabled section at the Millenium Stadium missed every single penalty at the 2001 â€˜Worthlessâ€™ Cup final between Liverpool and Birmingham City.

All facilities, including toilets and bars should be accessible to all. All grounds should provide match commentaries for blind and partially sighted people who want to attend.

Clubs are always claiming that they want football to be a family game, but the facilities that exist for women at many grounds are completely inadequate.

Decent food, not just soggy hamburgers, should be available at an affordable price. All fans, men and women, should be be involved in deciding what facilities are provided.

Creches should be freely available (mind you, kids should be inside the ground at as early an age as possible).

Campaign

We must organise in the National Federation of Football Supporters, which has over 80,000 members, and through independent supportersâ€™ clubs and fanzines for the policies outlined above. We must Reclaim Our Game!

Football came from the masses and the working class. The only way it can survive is if we fight to reclaim it as a working-class sport, owned, controlled and run by the fans, players and the local community. Fans united will never be defeated!

Revenue

The tens of millions of pounds taken out of the game in tax by the government have to be ploughed back into football. The pools companies should be nationalised, with the millions of pounds generated by them put back into the sport at every level.

Directors are always pleading poverty, yet they are never short of a few bob or the odd Rolls-Royce or two. Football`s financial books must be opened for all fans to see where their money goes.

Anti-racism and fascism

We the fans must demand:

The stopping of distribution of racist and fascist literature at grounds.

Ejection and banning of known fascists and persistent racist chanters from grounds â€" if the clubs do not take action fans must be organised to physically confront racists and fascists. Players, clubs and fanzines should be used to educate fans on the nature of fascism, how it exists to physically destroy the rights and organisations of all workers.

Players should visit schools and youth clubs to issue anti-racist statements and encourage all children, including Black and Asian children, to attend matches.

Hooliganism

We must also combat hooliganism; a bit of a ruck with another set of fans might seem a bit of a laugh, but itâ€™s divisive. Better to organise fans from around the country to fight racism and fascism, linking this with the campaign for a reduction in prices and for democratic control of our clubs.

Pay Television

Sky TV, and all cable, digital and commercial TV should be nationalised under democratic workersâ€™ control and management. Enable facilities and technology to be available for all for a minimal cost. For need, not profit.

The government and football

The Criminal Justice Act could be used against fans demonstrating against â€˜ourâ€™ chairmen, boards or managers.

The fast-track judicial procedure in Belgium has only been used once, to (wrongly) convict an England fan at Euro 2000. It is to be revitalised for the protests at the EU Summit in Brussels in December 2001.

Banning orders, which are used to prevent football fans from travelling abroad could be used in the future against the Left and anti-capitalist protestors.

If big business did not control and run football, how would football be run? A Socialist society would guarantee and protect the existence of all clubs, League and non League. Football clubs are an integral part of working class communities.

Clubs would be community run and non profit making (as 74 already make a loss this would be a step forward). Supporters would not just be involved in turning up to watch . There would be a proper club structure where people would enrol to the club of their choice for a nominal fee . It would be a sports club, with fans, if they wished, playing in Leagues based on ability. People of all ages, men, women, abled bodied and disabled would be enabled to play for their club. Club members through elected committees would also be involved in the day to day running of their clubs.

In a Socialist society players and club staff would receive good wages, but not the over inflated wages they receive now. In the Premiership many players receive millionaire wages. But these players have witnessed vast profits being made by the directors of the game and have tried to secure a share for themselves. Under Socialism players would receive wages tied to the average wage of a skilled worker, with differentials based on the level of League they play in.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Griff said:


> In a Socialist society players and club staff would receive good wages, but not the over inflated wages they receive now. In the Premiership many players receive millionaire wages. But these players have witnessed vast profits being made by the directors of the game and have tried to secure a share for themselves. Under Socialism players would receive wages tied to the average wage of a skilled worker, with differentials based on the level of League they play in.


Then they will just go abroad.

"Socialist society" No thanks.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Beckham can stay there


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

> The policing at our grounds also needs to be monitored and controlled by the fans.



















Anybody seen the film 'The Football Factory' that came out recently......

Griff, I dont know much about football but your sugestions made me chuckle..You cant shut the stable door after the horse has legged it.....Do you have any other ideas that are feasable.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

The idea is to have club stewards supported by the fans working with the police.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I don't know what to say to Griff's comments .... I am speechless


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

15 seconds


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