# 1690'S Piece



## James (Jul 17, 2006)

Was looking at various pocket watches again. This is really cool and old and in not shabby shape

fleabay item 200501254303

8K


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## Mikrolisk (Jan 23, 2008)

Really amazing, but not from 1690. If it would be from 1690 it should had only an hour hand, but not a minute hand. I would date it about 1720-1780. Aren't there hallmarks in the case?

Regards, Andreas


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## ValvesRule (May 20, 2009)

Made before fasion took over, and ruined what credibility the Verge had.

According to a page of a book of Watchmakers, photographed by the seller, one Thomas Maylard (or Mayland) worked from 1682 to 1698 (I'm guessing this is what a. and CC. mean). However, another worked from 1733.

The photographs of the Inner Case where the Hallmarks should be show that they have mostly worn away.

We are not shown the condition or character of the Hallmarks under the Papers in the Outer case.

* $8K.

Â£5,032.71


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## sam. (Mar 24, 2010)

Incredible time piece! 

Its amazing to think pocket watches have been around for over half a millenia!


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## tixntox (Jul 17, 2009)

Wow! I thought that you had mis-typed 1960!!! That must have been a "bosses" watch! :hypocrite:

Mike


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## tock tick (Aug 4, 2010)

Blimey, I didn't even know watches were made that long ago!!!! Anyone know what the thing that looks like a chess bishop do, in the first picture....It just looks like an ornament. I am new, so be gentle...I'm just trying to learn:to_become_senile:

Cheers


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## sam. (Mar 24, 2010)

tock tick said:


> Blimey, I didn't even know watches were made that long ago!!!! Anyone know what the thing that looks like a chess bishop do, in the first picture....It just looks like an ornament. I am new, so be gentle...I'm just trying to learn:to_become_senile:
> 
> Cheers


 The Duke of Florence had the first watch to ever appear in a painting,around 1540,but i think they go back to approx 1504 ish?


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## tock tick (Aug 4, 2010)

Crickey, over 500 years of watches, thanks for sharing that Sam, I'm astounded that the technology existed then to make such works of art!!! This one looks like its got some sort of chain drive...but I dont really know!!! Still wondering what that chess piece thing is for (like a bishop in blued steel in the first pic). I must say really liking this forum, lots of knowledge and a bit of fun too. :thumbup:


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## ValvesRule (May 20, 2009)

tock tick said:


> Still wondering what that chess piece thing is for (like a bishop in blued steel in the first pic).


Do you mean the blued steel thing sticking up from the Top Plate?

That's the screw for the Release Catch Spring. During the 18th Century this was relocated to the top of the Top Plate, under the dial.



> This one looks like its got some sort of chain drive...but I dont really know!!!


This is called the FusÃ©e. It's a very clever device for keeping the power driving the Watch constant as the spring runs down. Otherwise the Watch would slow down as it ran. They have been used from almost the beginning to the present day (I have seen a modern-day FusÃ©e "Winch" wristwatch), though initially they used Cat-gut instead of a chain.

Its operation is as follows;

When you wind it up (by turning the Winding Square anti-clockwise) you turn the Cone, and pull the Chain off the Mainspring Barrel onto the Cone.

The Mainspring is attached to the Barrel by its outer end, and to a stationary Arbor by its inner.

Inside the Cone are the Motor Ratchets, which allow this to happen without turning the Great Wheel (the Wheel in the foreground of the third photograph).

So you end up with the Chain leaving the Cone at the Top (or bottom, strictly speaking) - the narrow end.

When you let go of the key, the Spring pulls through the Chain onto the small-diameter end of the Cone - thus the power is geared up -, through the Ratchets, onto the Great Wheel and the rest of the Watch.

As the Spring runs down, its torque falls. This would cause the Watch to slow down, except that the Chain is being drawn off parts of the Cone of progressively larger and larger diameter, reducing the gear ratio. This keeps the torque at the Great Wheel (and therefore the speed of the Watch) constant - the tradeoff is that the Spring Barrel revolves faster.

By the time the Watch is completely run down, the gear ratio will be 1:1. The Spring is very weak, and the FusÃ©e is making it very easy for it.

The Spring in a FusÃ©e Watch is never completely relaxed; there is always a little 'Setup' keeping the Chain in tension. Applying Setup Tension is almost identical to winding up a Watch with a Going Barrel - you turn the Arbor, and it is kept from turning back, in the case of this watch, by a tiny worm gear underneath the Barrel - you can just see it out of focus in the first photograph. During the 18th Century, this was gradually replaced by a Ratchet with an unsprung Pawl atop the Front Plate.


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## tock tick (Aug 4, 2010)

Yep you got the right blued steel chess piece thing, not quite sure what a release catch does though 

I THINK I understand that about the Fusee drive (Did Sturmey archer do something similar...joke), but a bit like a bicycle gears if Ive got it right, lower gears at the end of the day, when your tired, like the spring being wound down.

Thanks for the really in depth answer, its much appreciated, as I'm not really well up on watch design or the inner workings, and your explaination, although a little complex, has helped me understand what the chain drive type FUSEE is about.

I'd expect nothing less from a fellow valve fan (Border Patrol with 2x 330B's is my love...but very off topic).

Thanks for taking the time to let me know what the watch innards were about, :hi:

Stu


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## rolexgirl (Jul 17, 2010)

What a beauty.


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## ValvesRule (May 20, 2009)

tock tick said:


> Yep you got the right blued steel chess piece thing, not quite sure what a release catch does though


Although these photographs don't show it, this Watch is in a 'Pair Case', i.e. the Movement is housed in a pair of cases. I believe this is an early form of shock protection, the Inner case being allowed to move slightly inside the Outer.

The Movement is attached to the Inner Case by a hinge (top of fourth photograph), so that it can swing out for regulation, etc. It is held firmly in place by a Catch at the 6 o'clock position, which you must push in at the same time as lifting up the movement.



> I THINK I understand that about the Fusee drive (Did Sturmey archer do something similar...joke), but a bit like a bicycle gears if I've got it right, lower gears at the end of the day, when your tired, like the spring being wound down.


More-or-less correct, except that the change in gears is gradual and continuous, rather than stepping from one gear to another.


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## tock tick (Aug 4, 2010)

AHHHH...Gotcha now, I can see what you mean now about the release catch :thumbsup:

And I understand the Fusee aspect now :shocking:

Thanks ever so much for explaining it in a much simpler form to a very unknowledgeble bloke.

Cheers


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## James (Jul 17, 2006)

Ok, rest of the pics, busy guy you know


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## James (Jul 17, 2006)




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## tock tick (Aug 4, 2010)

WOW :drool: That is such a beautiful thing, even to someone not in the know!!!! Thanks for the added pics James...I can see why people collect these things.....One day, maybe


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Small but interesting point - you should always be careful when opening really old watches (both pocket and wristwatches) as with this one, there can be repair or service information written inside, with dates even, thus helping to date the piece. Sometimes engraved or scratched inside, sometimes on paper or paper labels. :yes:


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## rmcsilva (May 29, 2010)

WOW! Really nice watch!!!

Thanks for posting.


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