# Fixed Bars



## Nalu

While surfing this evening (the drama began around 2230), I was started into action by 3 nearby explosions. I threw my trousers, vest and helmet on andset off to the nearest bunker. I crammed myself in there with the squaddies and waited. After a few minutes, I realized something was not right: my watch was missing









There was a black NATO fixed to my wrist, but no Tissot Seastar 1000! Both springbars must have failed, and I could only hope that it had happened in my quarters when I was throwing on my vest







To make it endless: we got accountability, confirmed that we had no casualties on the way in to us, stood down and I went back to my room - and found the Tissot lying on the rug







No springbars, but I'm sure I'll find them tomorrow.

So as I sit here listening to the outgoing illum rounds, I'm contemplating how to get my watches all converted to fixed bars - or at least find some stouter springbars for my field watches. It's either that or go back to wearing cheapos in the field







All ideas/resources are welcome!


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## Stan

If all you did was to get dressed in a hurry then I doubt the spring bars were the right size or maybe of poor quality.

I don't think spring bars should fail that easily Colin.


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## namaste

Not many of us that run for a shelter every other day, I can't say I've ever had the problem... but I agree with Stan, something must have been going on there, especially if you didn't knock your wrist against something... Maybe we could send Stan to investigate?


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## Stan

namaste said:


> Not many of us that run for a shelter every other day, I can't say I've ever had the problem... but I agree with Stan, something must have been going on there, especially if you didn't knock your wrist against something... Maybe we could send Stan to investigate?
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I'll pack some spring bars and the Bergeon Pieter.


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## Nalu

Just the spring bars and some kevlar, then Stan - I've got one of Roy's key fob springbar tools here









The vest is heavy - probably about 15 kilos - and it tends to catch or drag on everything due to the Cordura cover. I've ranted about crown guards before because of the difficulties in donning heavy equipment, be it a tank or a ruck. Now I've got something new to







about









I believe they were factory springbars since the watch arrived 'used' with the tags and stickers still in place. I'll find out more tomorrow, have to sign off as we've gone on light discipline.


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## namaste

Don't forget your bowler hat Stanley!
















It's Flying Deuces all over again!


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## Nalu

Very OT, but potentially interesting. If mods need to move, then that's OK by me. I'll mention something about watches at the end









The drama continues. After sleeping fitfully last night in my uniform (required when on high alert), I was awakened this AM with a knock and my OR nurse shouting "we've got a patient".

It was one of the bad guys from last night. Apparently, and this is common, they were launching the rocket from a slight rise in the ground since they don't have tubes or a launcher. They just place the rocket on the ground, put a couple of rocks on either side to keep it from rolling around and connect the wires to the battery and away she goes.

Well these, ummm, rocket scientists placed the rockets on the ground and the battery about 25m away (just as it's diagrammed in the bad guy manual). They wired the battery and when my man went to wire the rocket he got the surprise of his life! His mates legged it and he crawled to a village whose elder turned him over - at 0830! The guy was laying out in the desert with 35% burns for 10 hours.

Bob's yer uncle, he's resuscitated and lying in my ICU, wounds dressed and on morphine. We'll send him downtown tomorrow or the next day, just hope his mates don't find out he's still alive and singing like a bird









So two lessons learned last night: field watches should have fixed bars (or extra stout springbars), and _always_ wire the rocket _before_ you wire the battery









Found one of the spring bars so far. Looks about average diameter, but it now has a a gentle curve to it. It seems to be the correct length, but I'll ensure that the replacements are. At least the watch is safe - happy ending after all


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## Roy

I have some very strong 2mm thick spring bars Colin 18,20 & 22mm let me know what you need and I'll send you some FOC next time.


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## mach 0.0013137

Colin I thought we told you to be careful









Glad the only thing that was damaged was your spring bars oh and of course the poor misguided bad guy









BTW If Stan has got *Oddjob`s* old bowler you`ll be ok when he delivers your new spring bars


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## jasonm

I doubt if this is an option for your nicer pieces Colin, but just a thought, can lugs be drilled to accept threaded tubes and screws?


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## Nalu

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Colin I thought we told you to be careful


Mac, I thought you lads meant the watches







There was no real danger (of course we didn't know that at the time). The rockets used have a range of 6-7Km. The tits set them up ~2Km from us, making it impossible for the rockets to have struck our compound.

Roy, that's a fantastic offer which I cannot refuse, thank you. I'll get the size to you. I could definitely use a set for the 69.















140F (that's 60C for you islanders) here today! It truly felt as if I was standing too close to a fire - except that moving did nothing to relieve the vague discomfort. Reportedly it will reach 150 later in the summer. What's the temp rating on the RLT69 Roy?









My thoughts exactly, Jason. Will have to do some experimenting (and I have the _manini_ to do it on at home) on drilling the lugs. Anyone with a source for threaded tubes and screws?


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## JoT

I have come to the conclusion that spring bars and NATO/Beefy/Rhino's don't mix .... I am forever popping spring bars ... I have tried thick bars and shoulderless bars ... didn't make much difference .... and nobody was lobbing rockets at me









When I wear a watch on a NATO etc and unless it has fixed bars ... I wear it loose .. it seems to help.

Wrist movement, especially sudden firm wrist movement, or of you catch the watch head on something .... puts a lot of downward pressure on the springbars .... POP









I find the most secure fixings are a good bracelet with fitted endpieces; it seems to protect the springbars, and those horrible velcro straps :yuk:


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## Duarte

JoT said:


> I have come to the conclusion that spring bars and NATO/Beefy/Rhino's don't mix .... I am forever popping spring bars ... I have tried thick bars and shoulderless bars ... didn't make much difference .... and nobody was lobbing rockets at me
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Two options:

FAT Seiko spring bars, they are 2mm thick for the 20mm variety, and 2.5mm for the 22mm

The other, better option (thanks to Zaf on the MWR):

Get a similar diameter stainless steel nail to the current spring bars. If it's slightly too big, you can spin it on a hand held dremel tool while applying a file to it to machine it down to the correct diameter. Cut the nail down to a near fit, about 0.5mm to 0.75mm larger on each side, and bend it 35-45 degrees, put it in and bend it back. Use needle nose pliers that have rubber inserts while doing this. Instant fixed bars. They won't pop out









Afghanistan?! May a suggest a new travel agent?


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## Nalu

JoT said:


> I have come to the conclusion that spring bars and NATO/Beefy/Rhino's don't mix .... I am forever popping spring bars ... I have tried thick bars and shoulderless bars ... didn't make much difference .... and nobody was lobbing rockets at me
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Jon,

I have two concerns about bracelets.

1. I believe with a good metal bracelet (and I can't stand the light ones like on the SM300), you are starting to approach the ultimate yield strength of some of the tissues it is wrapped around - not a good thing if it catches on something (as in jumping out of a truck/off a tank). I've seen it happen with rings and it's ugly. And very difficult to repair.

2. It's 140F!

Stouter spring bars sound like a nice compromise. I don't own a watch I would trade even part of my hand for (especially seeing as it's the hands what get me the watches).

Duarte - naah, have had the same one for the last 25 years and he's done all right so far. Even when he calls it poorly, he always makes sure I have some good mates to travel with.


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## JoT

Nalu said:


> JoT said:
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> When I wear a watch on a NATO etc and unless it has fixed bars ... I wear it loose .. it seems to help.
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> Stouter spring bars sound like a nice compromise. I don't own a watch I would trade even part of my hand for (especially seeing as it's the hands what get me the watches).
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Click to expand...

I agree with you here Colin, bracelets aren't always appropriate from a personal safety point of view; I still wear a NATO (or no watch at all) in some circumstances (usually underground) my hands aren't as important as yours .... but it would be real inconvenient to lose one


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## pg tips

I've never had a good spring bar pop. I've had some cheap ones split down the seam though.

I can't see how a thicker bar would help. firstly the hole in the lug is still the same so no extra security there, secondly with a nato the thicker bar means less of a gap between case and bar so more pressure on the bar.

I can see thicker bars won't bend as easily but they'll still pull the pin out of the hole under pressure. The best solution is removeable bars like the rlt4 IMO.










I wear my work watches on Roy's bargain Heavy duty nylon strap and haven't ever popped one.

I agree with the bracelet concerns though. not good for arms in rough situations. I can't wear one just incase I get 400 amps from a battery earthing through it! As for rings, I had a mate who lost a finger whilst jumping out of a trailer so I don't wear them for work either.


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## jasonm

> As for rings, I had a mate who lost a finger whilst jumping out of a trailer












Perhaps I shouldnt have got a Titainium and Gold wedding ring









Ill remember to tell the Firemen to use the 'Jaws of Life' rather than a hacksaw


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## pg tips

jasonm said:


> As for rings, I had a mate who lost a finger whilst jumping out of a trailer
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Click to expand...

Perhaps I shouldn't have got a wedding ring {fullstop} (both times)


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## jasonm




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## mach 0.0013137

pg tips said:


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Click to expand...




jasonm said:


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I managed to escape 15 years ago & they`ll never take me alive























Actually I did nearly make the same mistake again 6 years ago









Luckily we both came to our senses









Now the fine lady in question is my lodger, a much more sensible arrangement


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## mach 0.0013137

To get back on topic, well sort of, as Paul mentioned, Roy`s HDN`s are excellent especially for the price he sells them


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## Nalu

pg tips said:


> I've never had a good spring bar pop. I've had some cheap ones split down the seam though.
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pg, I think the failure mode is that the bar flexes and becomes 'too short', despite its springs. A thicker spring bar, especially a shoulderless one, will be stiffer in lateral bending and should fail at a higher load.

Rings are bad news - I've seen too many people regret ever having worn one. I'm speaking purely from a hand surgeon's standpoint of course









Ti is a particularly bad choice because of its strength. I'd recommend soft gold with a gap (i.e. a 7/8ths circle) if you wear a ring around any type of machinery or at manual labour (I've also seen the jumping out of a truck degloving injury - twice) or sport. Better to wear the ring around your neck. Attach it to the yoke p'raps?


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## jasonm

> or at manual labour


Im OK then


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## Nalu

I switched watches today for some work downtown at the local hospital. One of the squaddies needed a radiograph done and we were finally able to transfer the rocket scientist out of my facility. I believe I posted the photos here already. What's the watch?



















BTW, that's a rubber oyster from RLT


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## mach 0.0013137

Would it be this Certina by any chance Colin


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## Nalu

Mac, you're no fun


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## mach 0.0013137

I`ve heard that said before


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## ErikS

I was recently given an ORSA MoD with a Swiss 2428/2 movement. It is rated at 30BAR and has FIXED bars. Other than the fact that the crystal is flat I am sure it would fit your needs. Check Ebay, that is only place I have seen then for sale. BTW I am a USAF SNCO and understand your complaints about heavy body armor though the alternative I know you understand, is not a pretty sight.

First Post and a public thank you to w.a.manning.


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## Roy

Welcome to the forum Erik.


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## Nalu

Erik, Welcome to the Forum and RLT watches - you'll find this to be a good group.

I'd never complain about body armour. I'm actually wearing a Level 2 vest in the photos above, something I always do when outside the compound even when I have the IBAS on (it was off here while inside the hospital - my PSD person watches my back when I'm working). When I'm on patrol, I also wear kevlar sleeves that cover my upper arms.

It's just that I've realized that I need to place a higher priority on spring bars for watches I wear in the field. I'm gaining a new appreciation for fixed bar watches.

I've looked at the Orsas and am still thinking about them, but I have too many similar watches already. I wouldn't say I'm tired of the Ploprof hands, it's just that I'm not sure I need yet another watch with them. Similarly, I'm starting to notice a pattern of niggling problems with 2428s (mainly concerning the way the stem interfaces with the movement) and again I think I've got more than enough 2428 watches for any three people.

Another reason I'm looking forward to the new RLT Diver (does it have a number yet, Roy?)


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## ErikS

Nalu said:


> I've looked at the Orsas and am still thinking about them, but I have too many similar watches already. I wouldn't say I'm tired of the Ploprof hands, it's just that I'm not sure I need yet another watch with them. Similarly, I'm starting to notice a pattern of niggling problems with 2428s (mainly concerning the way the stem interfaces with the movement) and again I think I've got more than enough 2428 watches for any three people.
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I can understand, kinda, I am new to watches and have always worn wally world specials because I have a tendancy to tear them up. We did until I was given this watch. BTW you like the fact that it was given to me with my job in mind from a supporter.

I have never worn the kevlar sleeves but have spent my fair share in the standard vest with plates, (hey I am an F16 mech I have no idea what level it would be) I wear a KPot any time I have a vest on no matter what.

I doubt I will have any problem with my watch but if I do, I have one that can be fixed instead of thrown away.


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## marius

Good afternoon.

Interesting thread this one. Nice pictures. I guess I should not be surprised, a lot have changed over a few years, but I remember when I was in the SA Infantry, anyone wearing any kind of wristwatch, had to have it covered up completely. No reflective watchcrystals allowed, and especially no "phosphorous" on the watch hands. You could even buy a special starp, almost 50mm wide, with a fold-over flap. Velcro was not allowed, because of the distinctive sound it makes, and you can hear that sound quite a distance on a quiet night. Those traps would hold a watch even if you just put it under the flap with no springbars. Not very handy, and not very pretty either, but no-one was supposed to look pretty, and they did protect the watch.

Enjoy the stint, and watch out for those incoming.


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## Nalu

Thanks Marius, wilco.

The rules have changed a bit, but not as much as you might think. US infantrymen still adhere to the guidance you cite. A particular problem in this environment, as you point out, is reflections. You can walk around unseen, but one reflection (duct goggles on the helmet are a big offender) can mark you from miles away.

For REMFs like myself, I give myself a little leeway since when I'm on a patrol it's in an armoured HMMWV with a .50 cal or Mk19 in the turret. A watch crystal reflection isn't going to be the thing to give my position away







As I've reported on another forum, I wouldn't wear a tritium-vial watch on night patrol - it's bright enough to see from a fair distance away unaided. I'll reverse a well-lumed watch at night (dial on the volar forearm) and keep my sleeves down too. Of course, I could always have one of Roy's "Military Styles with Cover" as you describe using. Now there's a thought for the new diver...


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## pg tips

like this Marius?


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## marius

pg tips said:


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Yip. Much like those. Some variations had a thornbuckle keeping the cover piece down. On most, the whole thing was the same width all the way around. Some guys made their own. Once you got your webbing "worn in", you would normally cut off the excess web belt ends, to tidy up your kit somwehat. So there was always some web-belt to be had.

Most carefree time I can remember. Of course we never saw as much action as the guys these days, enemy hardly ever made a stand, almost always 'ambush and run', so it was mostly short firefights, and then you chase them for days and very seldom catch up.

I had a Citizen auto, went through it with me for two years, and did a number of short three month stints afterwards, never failed me.


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## Duarte

marius said:


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Click to expand...

Hi Marius,

Nice to see an SADFer here! Do you know anything about teh Roamer SADF watches? Who was issued them? When?



















They were also Rhodesian issue:


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## marius

Duarte, nice to meet you too. I dont know about those, but I still have some friends in the special forces. Not many of the old "Recce's" left, but one guy I know is now a colonel in the new "Spes magte". He has been in it from the early 70's, and he might very well know. He specialised eventually in "HALO" operations. Guys who jump from extremely dizzy heights and open shutes when you can almost see the white of their eyes. He might know. I shall ask him.

You spend any time in Angola or Rhodesia?

Marius.


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## Nalu

marius said:


> Of course we never saw as much action as the guys these days, enemy hardly ever made a stand, almost always 'ambush and run', so it was mostly short firefights, and then you chase them for days and very seldom catch up.


Dunno mate, seems as if things haven't changed a bit!


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## Duarte

marius said:


> Duarte, nice to meet you too. I dont know about those, but I still have some friends in the special forces. Not many of the old "Recce's" left, but one guy I know is now a colonel in the new "Spes magte". He has been in it from the early 70's, and he might very well know. He specialised eventually in "HALO" operations. Guys who jump from extremely dizzy heights and open shutes when you can almost see the white of their eyes. He might know. I shall ask him.
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That would be great! These watches have been a mystery to me for a while. Any info would be appreciated.

As for Angola, no, although I am Portuguese, I am too young to have served in the former Provinces. My father left the Army in 1960, one year before the hostlities started. All my uncles served though, in Angola (2), and GuinÃ© (1) and one cousin served in Mozambique (Cabora Bassa region).

Rhodesia was a damn shame, just look at Zim now.. what a shambles of a country









"One man, one vote, ONE time"









Were the covered straps anything like this?



















Cheers!


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## marius

Hi, yes, a few guys had almost exactly that style. Most of those though were with guys who had family or buddies in the police force. The police force was still using a lot of leather, (I guess mostly because they used to do a lot of ceremonial stuff) while the army had already changed over to the cheap and nasty looking canvass webbing. So, most of the ones I saw, were Olive, drab, canvass.

My personal one came out of a piece of 50mm canvass webbelt, an army issue sewing kit, and a Sunday afternoon. Went well with my 88mil rocket canister coffee mug.

I miss those days......


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## marius

By the way, I love that scouts watch. (We were not great buddies with the Selous scouts, Rhodesian vs South African and who is really the better, as it always is with different combat groups, but I can tell you, we all had great respect for what those guys did.)

Really great watch!


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## Duarte

marius said:


> By the way, I love that scouts watch. (We were not great buddies with the Selous scouts, Rhodesian vs South African and who is really the better, as it always is with different combat groups, but I can tell you, we all had great respect for what those guys did.)
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You were both fighting the same enemy, but these rivalries always occur.









I have read that both the Recces and Selous Scouts were both the best, depends on who you ask









I certainly can't make up my mind. At least they both used the same watch (and a lot of Rhodie kit was South African). If you discover anything about the Roamers, please let me know.

Cheers!


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## Griff

I've looked closely at many spring bars. The critical thing is the thickness of the ends of the bars that fit into the lug holes, not the actual thickness of the bar.

I've had some with very thin bar lug hole ends, and they almost wobble in the holes of the lugs.

You want some bars with the ends that are of sufficient thickness to be a close fit in the lug holes. You'll need a magnifier to check this.

Failing that, I'd super glue the bar ends into the lug holes, and use ladies nail varnish remover when wanting to get them out.

Maybe Roy could source you some bars with the lug hole ends of sufficient thickness rather than just thicker bars in general.


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## Nalu

Super glue - that is an excellent idea, Griff! I knew we kept you around here for good reason
















I'm still going to go with the thicker bars Roy is supplying. Belt and suspenders


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## mach 0.0013137

Nalu said:


> Super glue - that is an excellent idea, Griff! I knew we kept you around here for good reason
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You could try super gluing the watch to your wrist Colin









Or is that just a bit too silly 
















Oh no I`m working nights again, there goes my higher brain functions


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## Stan

Did someone mention suspenders?









I suppose the American meaning is a little different than the British?

We call them braces, suspenders are a whole lot different over here. I'm trying to find a picture as we speak.























Potential smut, moderator castigated for evil thoughts.


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## mach 0.0013137

Stan said:


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Take it easy Stan or your BPM will explode


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## Stan

Naah, new batteries will sort that out.


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## Nalu

Stan said:


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Yes, I forgot...separated by a common language and all. It's a phrase we often use in orthopaedics, since our business is fixing things. In the classic meaning of the word "fixing" that is, not the Texas: "I'm fixing t'go git sumpin t'eat y'all"









Stan, you can always email me the photo







Just to make sure I understand the proper use of the word suspenders of course


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## jasonm




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## Griff

Why do fixed bars suddenly come back into mind


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## ESL

Nicely back on topic Griff, and not a moment too soon...

One disaster on my recent Lakeland trip, was that on day ONE, my Orange Monster popped off my wrist as I did a "Colin", by swinging my backpack on and it caught on a shoulder strap.























Luckily I spotted it in the dark as the bugger was glowing like a torch









So I'm going to have to get something with fixed watch bars for my hillwalking too as that's two watches now that I have popped spring bars on!!!

*Pretty please... If anyone has a surlpus monster sized springbar for sale, please let me know*


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## mach 0.0013137

Joli is going to give you a slap Jason
















If Aly doesn`t get to you first
















BTW didn`t someone recently say this forum was getting too PC


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## Stan

mach 0.0013137 said:


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Probably someone who is no longer on the forum Mac.


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## Ventura

I got a PRS-14 with shoulderless bars, but wanted to try some straps on it so bent them out. I wanted to put my thick Seiko Spring bars in place, but they slip out, ven though they are the right size. ANy ideas?


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## Nalu

Hmmm, they shouldn't slip out if they are the correct size. If you don't mind fixed bars, you can use a dab of acrylic cement.


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## Ventura

Thanks Buddy. May do that. It's odd how they slip though.


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## Griff

Ventura said:


> I got a PRS-14 with shoulderless bars, but wanted to try some straps on it so bent them out. I wanted to put my thick Seiko Spring bars in place, but they slip out, ven though they are the right size. ANy ideas?


Dare I say get some slightly bigger


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## Ventura

It's not the size, I think there is some sort of difference with the holes in the PRS14 and the spring bar in some way.


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## Griff

I'm sure some spring bars have fatter end pins that fit in bigger holed lugs.

Why not ask the original seller


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## Ventura

Will do Griff thanks. Are you in the watch business?


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## limey

jasonm said:


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Click to expand...

My platinum and gold ring saved my finger when it got between a trailer and a fence. Had to cut the ring off with a ring-cutter, but eventually the finger was fine. Now I have a much cheaper stainless steel ring, although I was looking at titanium or tungsten carbide.


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## ETCHY

Hari/ Ventura

I'll send you a couple in the post if you want ? (I've got some more of the same type that were in it, so they should fit).

Cheers

Dave


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## Ventura

ETCHY said:


> Hari/ Ventura
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Cool Dave. Thanks a lot mate !!


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