# Cheap Chinese successes?



## JayDeep

*Anybody else love gambling their hard earned money on cheap Chinese junk, hoping to find a gem? Have you found anything that was?*

*I guess I keep doing it because I have found some gems, from the better known Parnis and Alpha, to the lesser known Alba and Pagani Design*. Lately I've been trying super cheap stuff from AliExpress as well. I bought a couple Parnis sterile dial, they were fine. Another couple Pagani Design, both were awesome performers.

I also made a mistake of buying a few that I thought were sterile dial from an unknown brand, only to have them show up and be fakes. So I've learned to stay away from anything sterile unless it's Parnis. I'm not good enough to identify Photoshoped stuff I guess.

Recently I ordered, sight unseen of course, a couple of off brand name pieces that I'm awaiting and very hopeful for. With the access to YouTube and reviews, it seems easy enough to avoid scams and fakes (learned this lesson the hard way).

Funny thing is, in retrospect, I've not kept a single one of these watches. In the end I've given them all away, or bashed with a sledgehammer (the counterfeits). I guess that should be my indicator to stop huh? Lol


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## mrzee

Although I don't think of it as junk; it was rather cheap. The beautiful Shanghai Diamond



keeps excellent time and looks gorgeous.


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## jsud2002

I bought this just after New Year from Ali Express mainly because I liked the blue dial and bezel insert , I was not expecting too much for £14 (Inc Delivery) I kind of like it , very light in weight but a perfect grab and go watch










@JayDeep you mention you have bought a couple of Parnis I will admit it is a brand I have thought about buying myself only because I read mixed reviews , some say good for the price and some say rubbish .


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## Davey P

jsud2002 said:


> I bought this just after New Year from Ali Express mainly because I liked the blue dial and bezel insert , I was not expecting too much for *£14 (Inc Delivery)* I kind of like it ,


 :swoon: Bargain! (where can I find this "Ali Express" you speak of...........? )


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## jsud2002

Davey P said:


> :swoon: Bargain! (where can I find this "Ali Express" you speak of...........? )


 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SINOBI-Watch-Men-Wrist-Watches-Luminous-Pointer-Stainless-Steel-Watchband-Luxury-Brand-Male-Sports-Geneva-Quartz/32851343156.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.38fd4c4dORjltZ

:thumbsup:


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## JayDeep

@jsud2002

Yeah, that one looks pretty decent indeed!

My findings with Parnis are simple, if it's quartz you're fine, if it's automatic keep it simple (no complications, they tend to have higher propensity for being problematic), if it's manual mechanical keep it simple (Asian 6497/6498) and get it!! Lol

Hope that helps. I've owned at least 20 Parnis in my years of collecting. Only 1 stopped keeping time, it was a manual mechanical GMT with day night indicator. Suddenly it just started losing 15 minutes every half hour. It was crazy. So I decided to drop test the crystal. It was indeed Sapphire as they claimed. Lol

One automatic GMT I had took a little tap on the glass after setting the time to get it going. Another automatic GMT had a bothersome stutter in the seconds hand.



mrzee said:


> Although I don't think of it as junk; it was rather cheap. The beautiful Shanghai Diamond
> 
> 
> 
> keeps excellent time and looks gorgeous.


 No Shanghai is known for being a very good quality middle of the road Chinese brand. Much like Fiyta and The Beijing Watch Factory.


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## Davey P

jsud2002 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SINOBI-Watch-Men-Wrist-Watches-Luminous-Pointer-Stainless-Steel-Watchband-Luxury-Brand-Male-Sports-Geneva-Quartz/32851343156.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.38fd4c4dORjltZ


 Ha ha, brilliant, thanks mate - That one is bookmarked for future reference! :yahoo:


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## jsud2002

@JayDeep cheers for the info :thumbsup:

This is the one I came very close to buying at one point but just could not decide if I really like it or was it just a " like it at the time " ... looking back at it now I still like it


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## Graham60

I have a few Automatics from Ali Express, and have been really surprised at the quality of the watches given their price. Of the ones I have purchased Parnis, Starking and Carnival have been great, excellent value for money with Pagini's homage to the Seiko Presage not far behind.


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## JayDeep

jsud2002 said:


> @JayDeep cheers for the info :thumbsup:
> 
> This is the one I came very close to buying at one point but just could not decide if I really like it or was it just a " like it at the time " ... looking back at it now I still like it


 I've almost pulled the trigger on that one a hundred times!

Oh, that reminds me, the other rule with Parnis, if it uses a Miyota automatic, don't even think twice.... GET IT!!!!!

Their biggest trouble is with Chinese movements that don't come already lubed (or so I've been told). Then Parnis just slaps it in a watch without applying any lubricant themselves. But I've heard Miyota comes ready to install. I've had 3 Parnis with automatic Miyota and all were flawless. In fact, the only Parnis I still have left is a Miyota automatic.


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## Perlative Cernometer

JayDeep said:


> Their biggest trouble is with Chinese movements that don't come already lubed (or so I've been told). Then Parnis just slaps it in a watch without applying any lubricant themselves. But I've heard Miyota comes ready to install. I've had 3 Parnis with automatic Miyota and all were flawless. In fact, the only Parnis I still have left is a Miyota automatic.


 The word on the street (well, internet) seems to be Parnis knock out their watches to 3rd party sellers unlubed but the ones on their own website are prepped by themselves so buying from anything other than their site is a bit of a gamble and ditto used ones as you don't know where they came from. How much truth and/or wild speculation or generalisation there is in that I have no idea, but sometimes that's what makes buying Chinese interesting - you seem to sometimes have several companies knocking out the same watches to completely different standards.


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## suzublu

TBH, Parnis do have some nice watches https://parnis.org/collections


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## JonnyOldBoy

Perlative Cernometer said:


> The word on the street (well, internet) seems to be Parnis knock out their watches to 3rd party sellers unlubed but the ones on their own website are prepped by themselves so buying from anything other than their site is a bit of a gamble


 The situation is as follows... Parnis is a giant watch parts factory... they wholesale parts, movements, kits and bracelets to the highest bidder in a system only the Chinese would understand. However, they also produce their own "superior" products from their own wholesale stuff on their own website that are indeed a different league due to exclusive crystals and assembly etc etc ... So yes buy from their website. Otherwise you may end up with something that is less than satisfactory..


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## Speedy112

I bought this Parnis...Daytona clone for £63 delivered just before Christmas... it has a Seiko movement and keeps great time and very comfortable on the wrist with a decent Bracelet that is as good if not better than my Vintage Rolex pieces..its also great for confusing the hell out of people who Know I wear pieces of value and they don't like to ask if it is the real thing.


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## WRENCH

@Speedy112 what Seiko movement is in it please ?


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## Speedy112

WRENCH said:


> @Speedy112 what Seiko movement is in it please ?


 you may find this useful


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## suzublu

I have a watch with a naughty manufacturer name on the face, but, it's been very accurate & reliable for the past 3-4 years I've owned it.

The movement is http://calibercorner.com/seiko-caliber-vk64a/


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## JayDeep

JonnyOldBoy said:


> The situation is as follows... Parnis is a giant watch parts factory... they wholesale parts, movements, kits and bracelets to the highest bidder in a system only the Chinese would understand. However, they also produce their own "superior" products from their own wholesale stuff on their own website that are indeed a different league due to exclusive crystals and assembly etc etc ... So yes buy from their website. Otherwise you may end up with something that is less than satisfactory..


 That sounds to be the most likely case. This may very well have been what I read a while back, I just couldn't remember the details.

Although, the ones I had trouble with I bought directly from their website. I've only just very recently begun to use this AliExpress thing, and with those I've only had one failure, the manual GMT I mentioned earlier.

So my track record in fact would tell a different tale. Either way I don't mind taking the Gablme regardless


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## JonnyOldBoy

JayDeep said:


> That sounds to be the most likely case. This may very well have been what I read a while back, I just couldn't remember the details.
> 
> Although, the ones I had trouble with I bought directly from their website.


 I put the word "superior" in quotes. The fact remains.. due to their chosen business model.... quality control largely does not exist ( as per the rest of China ) and it remains as a reassurance that buying from Parnis "direct" means you are far less likely to get a substandard watch compared to a 2nd/3rd/4th down the line franchised style assembler of their stuff. I do not mean this in a condescending or sarcastic way , but buying Parnis is dabbling in the "fun" end of watches... and as mentioned there is a curious mix of quality... for example sometimes very well made bracelets etc etc.....


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## Stan

Is this thread just about watches, or other items?


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## JayDeep

Stan said:


> Is this thread just about watches, or other items?


 Watches


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## al_kaholik

I won't bring out the Starking again, but I'm very positive about the one that I have.

On a side note @Stan I've bought a very specific car air-conditioning/heating unit from Aliexpress and been nothing but impressed with it too. Generally, pick carefully and you will be fine


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## Perlative Cernometer

suzublu said:


> TBH, Parnis do have some nice watches https://parnis.org/collections


 Yup, Rolex, Omega, IWC, Tudor.......


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## Bonzodog

I admit I've looked at the Parnis site offerings,and while they look ok I keep getting an image in my head of standing over the porcelain fixture flushing £20.00 notes.Cant bring myself to buy one.


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## Davey P

Bonzodog said:


> I keep getting an image in my head of standing over the porcelain fixture flushing £20.00 notes .Cant bring myself to buy one.


 On the plus side, with a Parnis you wouldn't be flushing very many notes down to toilet, so it wouldn't be a complete disaster.... :tongue:

I must admit, the video review of the Parnis Daytona that @Speedy112 posted has got me thinking...  I don't know anything about the Rolex version, and I have no desire to own one of those (even if I could afford it - and I can't :laughing2dw: ), but the Parnis is just a great looking watch in it's own right. Looks well made too, if the video is anything to go by :thumbsup:


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## Roy

I'm really drawn to these two new models but would probably alter the crowns.

[IMG alt="CALIFORNIA 35 - PARNIS WATCH PARNIS OFFICIAL STORE BUY PARNIS WATCHES" data-ratio="100.00"]https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1764/4621/products/Watermarked87_2017-07-11-1615_2048x2048.JPG?v=1528842527[/IMG]

[IMG alt="CALIFORNIA 39 - PARNIS WATCH PARNIS OFFICIAL STORE BUY PARNIS WATCHES" data-ratio="100.00"]https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1764/4621/products/Watermarked85_2017-07-11-1615_2048x2048.JPG?v=1528842530[/IMG]


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## Graham60

Roy said:


> I'm really drawn to these two new models but would probably alter the crowns.


 I really like the 2nd one, think the green dial goes well with black case, but like you not at all keen on that style of crown.


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## Speedy112

Davey P said:


> On the plus side, with a Parnis you wouldn't be flushing very many notes down to toilet, so it wouldn't be a complete disaster.... :tongue:
> 
> I must admit, the video review of the Parnis Daytona that @Speedy112 posted has got me thinking...  I don't know anything about the Rolex version, and I have no desire to own one of those (even if I could afford it - and I can't :laughing2dw: ), but the Parnis is just a great looking watch in it's own right. Looks well made too, if the video is anything to go by :thumbsup:


 I really can assure anyone thinking about buying one they are a great looking piece very well made and with respected Miyota and Seiko movements... so I really don't understand the toilet flushing comment..one of my pals has the Ceramic Daytona he paid £18500 on the grey market last year and sees it as an investment piece of which I disagree and of course the Parnis is no comparison in anyway whatsoever.... but we are talking £63 delivered..i have worn his piece and vice versa and to be honest if the look is all you care about you cant go wrong.


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## JonnyOldBoy

Speedy112 said:


> if the look is all you care about you cant go wrong.


 Many don't like the clone-looks so for those , you can indeed go wrong as you say.

For me they are what they are , cheap Chinese watches that offer value just about spot on for the price. They are made as well as can be expected and many are not lasting the test of time ... yet many are ... so its a soupy picture with them.

They are not for me and of the two I have seen to be able to inspect... one was actually very impressive... the other was poor ( signs of case crack, crystal not as described , misalignments on dial )....

I do appreciate their curiosity and collecting value for watch enthusiasts.


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## WRENCH

JonnyOldBoy said:


> They﻿﻿ are made as well as can be expected and ﻿many are not lasting the test of time ... yet many ﻿﻿are ... so its a soupy picture with them.﻿


 This is the problem. I've spent a bit of time reading on some of the more expensive Chinese offerings, and the inconsistent QC crops up consistently. Now this can happen with Switzerland's finest, as I have experienced, but it is usually fairly simple to remedy. I've had a couple of cheap Chinese watches go wrong, and the supplier has either replaced or refunded. I do not, however think the same would apply to anything expensive . Which then can involve months of Chinese custom hassles (it happens) although I'm told its getting better.


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## Delta

This is my sterile dial Parnis. Seems to be fine, not a fan of the cyclops though.


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## Tazmo61

Having owned a couple of Parnis watches in the past , I know they are decent watches for the money . One of these two would be my choice if purchasing another , great looking watches imo .


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## JonnyOldBoy

WRENCH said:


> This is the problem. I've spent a bit of time reading on some of the more expensive Chinese offerings, and the inconsistent QC crops up consistently. Now this can happen with Switzerland's finest, as I have experienced, but it is usually fairly simple to remedy. I've had a couple of cheap Chinese watches go wrong, and the supplier has either replaced or refunded. I do not, however think the same would apply to anything expensive . Which then can involve months of Chinese custom hassles (it happens) although I'm told its getting better.


 Makes perfect sense.... The problem with Chinese anything made from metal is that the infrastructure to manufacture and supply consistent materials to a western standard specification does not exist when it comes to these sorts of things.


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## WRENCH

I think one of the problems associated with collecting watches is something you've owned for ten years without a problem, probably equates to three weeks wear by a normal person. So I dare say, like mine, there will be many excellent and reliable Chinese watches out there. :yes:

I bought this six years ago. Gave it to a friend, worn regularly, still running strong and accurately. Sub £10 delivered.










Never figured out the two second hands thing?


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## Caller.

JayDeep said:


> *to the lesser known Alba *


 Alba is Japanese and wholly owned by Seiko. It is their cheapest brand.

I love the way Parnis plaster their name over their official pics of the fakes they make, so they can't be used elsewhere.

Parnis own this 'brand' as well.

https://www.marinamilitare.net/


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## JonnyOldBoy

Caller. said:


> Alba is Japanese and wholly owned by Seiko. It is their cheapest brand.
> 
> I love the way Parnis plaster their name over their official pics of the fakes they make, so they can't be used elsewhere.
> 
> Parnis own this 'brand' as well.
> 
> https://www.marinamilitare.net/


 Chinese stainless steel 99% of the time is manufactured using Nickel-pig-iron, not refined pure nickel.

So am I correct in thinking those watches are probably not made using 316L steel as claimed !?

[ NPI was actually invented in China when they needed vast amounts of steel to fuel their economy but did not have access to Nickel Markets with sufficient clout ].


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## JayDeep

Caller. said:


> Alba is Japanese and wholly owned by Seiko. It is their cheapest brand.
> 
> I love the way Parnis plaster their name over their official pics of the fakes they make, so they can't be used elsewhere.
> 
> Parnis own this 'brand' as well.
> 
> https://www.marinamilitare.net/


 That's right I forgot that... It's been a long long long time since I've looked at an Alba. Back when their Manta Ray was super popular.



Tazmo61 said:


> Having owned a couple of Parnis watches in the past , I know they are decent watches for the money . One of these two would be my choice if purchasing another , great looking watches imo .


 The second one for sure!!!! Are they quartz though? And look at that date at 430, very awkward angle.



WRENCH said:


> I think one of the problems associated with collecting watches is something you've owned for ten years without a problem, probably equates to three weeks wear by a normal person. So I dare say, like mine, there will be many excellent and reliable Chinese watches out there. :yes:
> 
> I bought this six years ago. Gave it to a friend, worn regularly, still running strong and accurately. Sub £10 delivered.
> 
> 
> 
> Never figured out the two second hands thing?


 Very intriguing, it's not a chronograph, just has two seconds hands running simultaneously?


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## WRENCH

JayDeep said:


> just﻿ has two seconds hands running simultaneously?﻿


 Yes.


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## JayDeep

WRENCH said:


> Yes.


 Extremely odd, but cool looking piece.


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## Tazmo61

@JayDeep they are both quartz , yes . I would have preferred the second model without the date (agree , it does look awkwardly placed ) but it wouldn't personally put me off purchasing one at the price they go for .


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## sabailand

jsud2002 said:


> I bought this just after New Year from Ali Express mainly because I liked the blue dial and bezel insert , I was not expecting too much for £14 (Inc Delivery) I kind of like it , very light in weight but a perfect grab and go watch


 The face, crown and guards, lugs (to a degree), reminds me very very much of the Oris Aquis date.


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## WRENCH

sabailand said:


> The face, crown and guards, lugs (to a degree), reminds me very very much of the Oris Aquis date.


 Hmm.



















Can't see it myself. :laughing2dw:


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## sabailand

WRENCH said:


> Hmm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't see it myself. :laughing2dw:


 On first glance it did to me, obviously looking at the fine details it dosn`t, we`re talking £1000+ difference here!


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## WRENCH

sabailand said:


> On first glance it did to me, obviously looking at the fine details it dosn`t, we`re talking £1000+ difference here!


 Of course it's a homage. Apologies for being obtuse.


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## Roger

£7 or was it £6 delivered...still going strong...



Roger


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## MrF-UK82

I have had my eye on the green dial version of this recently but a bit hesitant because I have no experience with Parnis at all.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/41mm-Parnis-Sapphire-Crystal-Miyota-Automatic-Mens-Watch-Luminous-Marker-10-ATM/173131404394?hash=item284f6f946a:m:mIKMzhp0N7gN6e-K3cZPhiQ:rk:51f:0


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## ZenArcade

I have owned a few Chinese watches in the past (Seagull chronograph, Beijing, Shanghai) The last two can be had for about £30 - £50 on ebay and are reasonably well made for what they are and costing very little money. The other big bonus is they dont look like just another "homage" watch. I have never tried any of the more expensive Chinese watches some of them are sold here in the UK anyway (Fiyta being the main one that springs to mind, they even have their own "space watch" but I think they use Japanese Miyota movements)

A couple of things to keep in mind though, first is if they break forget about trying to fix them cost of repair will outweigh cost of purchase plus the parts are poorly made. Secondly just because they are cheap doesnt mean they are not copies or fakes. Yes, there are fakes of Chinese watches too.


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## JonnyOldBoy

ZenArcade said:


> Yes, there are fakes of Chinese watches too.


 This is where Parnis buying gets really foggy because they wholesale their parts without control or licence often so "fakes" of chinese watches are often semi-fakes involves Parnis parts etc etc etc ....


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## JayDeep

Roy said:


> I'm really drawn to these two new models but would probably alter the crowns.


 I've also looked at this one dozens of times. Love the gradient gray dial. But two things have held my back. One is the California dial. I hate everything California, but especially those stupid dials. The other is the crown. That crown is just absurd!


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## JonnyOldBoy

JayDeep said:


> I've also looked at this one dozens of times. But two things have held my back. One is the California dial. I hate everything California, but especially those stupid dials. The other is the crown. That crown is just absurd!


 Then may I ask ... why have you looked at this one dozens of times and not just once and then moved on ?


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## JayDeep

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Then may I ask ... why have you looked at this one dozens of times and not just once and then moved on ?


 It's still very attractive. As I said, the gradient dial is gorgeous. I also like the case shape and finish. And price. Lol


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## WRENCH

ZenArcade said:


> Fiyta﻿﻿ being the main one that springs to mind, they even have their own "space watch" but I﻿﻿ think they use Japanese Miyota movements)﻿


 https://www.watchprozine.com/horological-meandering/launch-of-the-fiyta-spacemaster-first-watch-worn-in-spacewalk-by-chinese-taikonaut/2825296/17/


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