# 7A28 Seiko Gen 1 Raf



## davie0146

Hi all,

First post in a while!

I received a trashed gen 1 7a28 RAF issue. The watch has suffered water ingress and movement is gone, dial is ok, chapter ring is knackered it's not round anymore but square!!

Hand seem ok. I know I could get another 7a28 movement from fleabay to replace, but does a 7a38 fit? And where could I get a chapter ring to fit, or what model has an identical ring?

Thanks davie


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## bry1975

Hi Davie,

Do you have chapter ring diameter as might have one here in okish condition.

I'm sure the 7A38 movement will fit.

Bry



davie0146 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> First post in a while!
> 
> I received a trashed gen 1 7a28 RAF issue. The watch has suffered water ingress and movement is gone, dial is ok, chapter ring is knackered it's not round anymore but square!!
> 
> Hand seem ok. I know I could get another 7a28 movement from fleabay to replace, but does a 7a38 fit? And where could I get a chapter ring to fit, or what model has an identical ring?
> 
> Thanks davie


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## SEIKO7A38

bry1975 said:


> I'm sure the 7A38 movement will fit.


It will if you strip off the Day / Date complication, which adds almost 1.0mm to the thickness. :hammer:

Buy why sacrifice a 7A38 movement ? :butcher:

There are plenty of cheap 7A28's to be found as the gold-tone 7A38-7029.

See this thread in the O&W / Military section: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=55348


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## bry1975

The SEIKO 7A EXPERT HAS ARRIVED. :thumbup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## packrat

bry1975 said:


> The SEIKO 7A EXPERT HAS ARRIVED. :thumbup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


This is one case where calling him Mr. Knowitall is NOT a putdown or insult at all!


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## SEIKO7A38

Only 'cos I've recently been looking into the practical side of shoe-horning a 7A38 movement into a 7A28 case. :hammer:

But certainly not 'Mr Know-it-All' :smartass: .... I'm still learning more about these wonderful watches every day. :grin:


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## davie0146

Hi Bry

Unfortunately the chapter ring is well gone, it's now square!! But looks to be around the 31mm to 31.5mm. If you have one that would be excellent.

7a38Fan

The reason I was thinking 7a38 is that I seemed to find more of them on fleabay.

I have one of the 7029's but the movement was gone on that one as well. ;-(

Will keep looking for another!!

Anybody want the gold bits from the 7029?

D


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## DaveS

davie0146 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> First post in a while!
> 
> I received a trashed gen 1 7a28 RAF issue. The watch has suffered water ingress and movement is gone, dial is ok, chapter ring is knackered it's not round anymore but square!!
> 
> Hand seem ok. I know I could get another 7a28 movement from fleabay to replace, but does a 7a38 fit? And where could I get a chapter ring to fit, or what model has an identical ring?
> 
> Thanks davie





davie0146 said:


> Hi Bry
> 
> Unfortunately the chapter ring is well gone, it's now square!! But looks to be around the 31mm to 31.5mm. If you have one that would be excellent.
> 
> 7a38Fan
> 
> The reason I was thinking 7a38 is that I seemed to find more of them on fleabay.
> 
> I have one of the 7029's but the movement was gone on that one as well. ;-(
> 
> Will keep looking for another!!
> 
> Anybody want the gold bits from the 7029?
> 
> D


Hi Davie

I'm afraid you will have problems with this. The chapter ring for the 7A28-7120 is smaller in diameter than most (almost all) of the 7Axx models by about 1mm. It is designed to sit on the dial whereas in most of the 7Axx's the chapter ring sits in the case underneath the crystal. You may be able to "turn down" a chapter ring to fit in which case the nearest match may be the 7A28-703B which has a 0 - 60 seconds chapter ring whereas most of the other 7Axx's have a tachymeter chapter ring.

Sounds to me like your original chapter ring has been over heated to get it to warp like that. Strangely, I have a 7A28-703B chapter ring which has suffered the same fate. I wonder if it would be possible to heat it up with a hair dryer and coax it back into shape? I may have a go with this one and see if it works.

I'll send you a PM re the 7029.

EDIT: Can't PM you as you don't have enough posts.

Is your 7029 movement beyond repair? Whay condition is it? If the circuit board is OK it may be repairable. I could take a look at it for you if you wish?

Good luck and kind regards

Dave


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## SEIKO7A38

DaveS said:


> Davie
> 
> I'm afraid you will have problems with this. The chapter ring for the 7A28-7120 is smaller in diameter than most (almost all) of the 7Axx models by about 1mm. It is designed to sit on the dial whereas in most of the 7Axx's the chapter ring sits in the case underneath the crystal. You may be able to "turn down" a chapter ring to fit in which case the nearest match may be the 7A28-703B which has a 0 - 60 seconds chapter ring whereas most of the other 7Axx's have a tachymeter chapter ring.


The 7A38-7010 and 7A38-701A use a white on black 0-60 second dial ring - and the same size 30mm Ã˜ crystal.

It's closer in (visible) appearance to the 7A28-7120's dial ring than the 7A28-703B which Dave S. suggested.

I'm not saying that it would be a direct fit, and might still need some modification .... *if* you can find one.

Doh ! :duh: Just did a look up on that dial ring p/n 84310763 - 7A28-7120 and 7A38-7010 use same part !!


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> There are plenty of cheap 7A28's to be found as the gold-tone 7A*38*28-7029.










Just realized I've gone and done my favourite typo again ! :taz: Better stick to the 7A38's. :grin:


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## DaveS

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> DaveS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Davie
> 
> I'm afraid you will have problems with this. The chapter ring for the 7A28-7120 is smaller in diameter than most (almost all) of the 7Axx models by about 1mm. It is designed to sit on the dial whereas in most of the 7Axx's the chapter ring sits in the case underneath the crystal. You may be able to "turn down" a chapter ring to fit in which case the nearest match may be the 7A28-703B which has a 0 - 60 seconds chapter ring whereas most of the other 7Axx's have a tachymeter chapter ring.
> 
> 
> 
> The 7A38-7010 and 7A38-701A use a white on black 0-60 second dial ring - and the same size 30mm Ã˜ crystal.
> 
> It's closer in (visible) appearance to the 7A28-7120's dial ring than the 7A28-703B which Dave S. suggested.
> 
> I'm not saying that it would be a direct fit, and might still need some modification .... *if* you can find one.
> 
> Doh ! :duh: Just did a look up on that dial ring p/n 84310763 - 7A28-7120 and 7A38-7010 use same part !!
Click to expand...

Yes, and also probably the 7A38-701A but realistically, what's the chance of finding a scrap 7A38-7010 or 7A38-701A?????


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## SEIKO7A38

DaveS said:


> Yes, and also probably the 7A38-701A but realistically, what's the chance of finding a scrap 7A38-7010 or 7A38-701A?????


I did write:



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> .... *if* you can find one.


But they *can* be found. Here's a few I've seen on eBay over the last 12 months or so:


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## davie0146

Hi All,

thanks for the infor and the heads up on the bits and bobs.

DaveS

thanks for the offer, your more than welcome to have a look at it, i know the minute hand works but the other ae dead, the watch has been stripped of its hands etc etc.

D


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## DaveS

davie0146 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> thanks for the infor and the heads up on the bits and bobs.
> 
> DaveS
> 
> thanks for the offer, your more than welcome to have a look at it, i know the minute hand works but the other ae dead, the watch has been stripped of its hands etc etc.
> 
> D


As I can't PM or email you, if you'd like to let me have your email I'll contact you off-line

Cheers

Dave


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## davie0146

Is your are on tz-uk, is your username the same as here?

I can Pm you through there with my email addy?

Ta d


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## DaveS

davie0146 said:


> Is your are on tz-uk, is your username the same as here?
> 
> I can Pm you through there with my email addy?
> 
> Ta d


 Yep, that's me or the same user name on SCWF (apparently also alias "the jerkk" :derisive: )


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## davie0146

Hi All,

i was beginning to think that the gen1 would would linger in the bottom of the drawer and never turn a hand again. But after exchanging several emails with our own DaveS and sourcings some bits and bobs and going for a small holiday the gen1 lives again after being sent to dave for repair and tweaking!!

to say i am happy is a bit of an undertatement.

so thanks to all who chipped in to this post with hints, tips and advice and a special thanks to dave :notworthy: for his work and for putting up with my sometimes bone questions..

cheers to one and all... :thumbsup:

and before you ask i will try to get pics up next week when i get time.

D


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## 7A28lvr

Speaking of the Seiko Gen 1 RAF, did anybody happen to see eBay UK completed item #280702257850. I thought it was interesting to see a Seiko 7A48 Moonphase with an actual Gen 1 RAF caseback attached.


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## 7A28lvr

Speaking of the Seiko Gen 1 RAF, did anybody happen to see eBay UK completed item #280702257850. I thought it was interesting to see a Seiko 7A48 Moonphase with an actual Gen 1 RAF caseback attached.


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## SEIKO7A38

7A28lvr said:


> Speaking of the Seiko Gen 1 RAF, did anybody happen to see eBay UK completed item #280702257850.
> 
> I thought it was interesting to see a Seiko 7A48 Moonphase with an actual Gen 1 RAF caseback attached.


Yes, I did, for one. See: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280702257850&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_950 The eBay seller originally had her auction listing titled as:



> SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH 7A*3*8 WITH MILITARY CASE BACK





















.... so it came up in my eBay saved favourite search notifications.

I messaged the seller, informing her that it was actually a 7A48-5000.

She corrected the title and description. I added it to my eBay watching page - just out of interest.

Thought it might have gone for more than the nearly 80 Quid it sold for.

Obviously no-one was looking for a 7A28-7120 caseback at the time.


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## SEIKO7A38

7A28lvr said:


> Speaking of the Seiko Gen 1 RAF, did anybody happen to see .... with an actual Gen 1 RAF caseback attached.


Bruce.

By the way, such 'pseudo-Militarized' civilian Seiko 7Axx's are not that uncommon.

As witnessed from the 'Frankens' that appear on eBay, it would appear most 7Axx case-backs are interchangable. :hammer:

Military watch expert (and author of 'British Military Watches') Konrad Knirim, turned this up in flea market in October 2009:










Basically it's a bog-stock civvy 7A38-7000 fitted with a case-back off a 7A28-7120. Dave S. put him right on that score.

I'm waiting for the day when someone tries fitting one of these MOD issued case-backs to a 7A38-701B 'RAF Vulcan'.


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## 7A28lvr

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> 7A28lvr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of the Seiko Gen 1 RAF, did anybody happen to see .... with an actual Gen 1 RAF caseback attached.
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce.
> 
> By the way, such 'pseudo-Militarized' civilian Seiko 7Axx's are not that uncommon.
> 
> As witnessed from the 'Frankens' that appear on eBay, it would appear most 7Axx case-backs are interchangable. :hammer:
> 
> Military watch expert (and author of 'British Military Watches') Konrad Knirim, turned this up in flea market in October 2009:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically it's a bog-stock civvy 7A38-7000 fitted with a case-back off a 7A28-7120. Dave S. put him right on that score.
> 
> I'm waiting for the day when someone tries fitting one of these MOD issued case-backs to a 7A38-701B 'RAF Vulcan'.
Click to expand...

Am I correct in saying that the 7A28-7120 RAF Gen 1 was MOD issued only?


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## SEIKO7A38

7A28lvr said:


> Am I correct in saying that the 7A28-7120 RAF Gen 1 was MOD issued only?


Yes I believe that was the case. :comando:

But the 7T27-7A20 RAF Gen 2 was also offered for sale to the general public.


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## SEIKO7A38

There's a few Seiko 7A28 RAF Gen. 1 threads already, so rather than start yet another one ....

I thought I'd add this little snippet onto this most recent one, especially as it doesn't mention crystals.

On nearly every photo you'll see of a 7A28-7120 Gen. 1', the original crystal (if still fitted) is scratched.

Comes with the territory, I suppose, having once been a military issued watch. :comando:

Naturally, being 'military', the scratches are evidence of combat - as opposed to falling over outside the mess. :drinks:

So military watch collectors are sometimes reluctant to replace them - for fear of losing some of their 'patina'. :fear:

There is another good reason - the original Seiko crystal p/n 300WF0GN00 is obsolete and no longer available. 

As Brandon wrote in a recent thread over on SCWF: RAF Gen 1 Wabi



> This week I finally (thanks to a fellow forum member) got my hands on one of my grail watches:
> 
> a first year Seiko 7A28-7120 RAF Gen 1 chronograph (s/n 0317/84).
> 
> One of the traits that kept the price on this one relatively low, comparable to what
> 
> others are going for these days, are the significant number of scratches on the crystal.
> 
> The seller was very honest about them and had good pictures, so I knew what I was buying.
> 
> I'm now trying to decide if I want to keep this potentially original crystal with all its war wounds,
> 
> or replace it with a shiny, new, boring, storyless crystal (assuming I can find one).


And DaveS replied:



> The genuine Seiko crystal replacements (300WF0GN00) are "discontinued" but a generic 30mm x 1.5mm mineral crystal will fit.


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## SEIKO7A38

Therein lies a small problem: most 'generic' replacement crystals are not only 'boring and storyless', but also slightly wrong.

The majority of them, e.g. Cousins p/n F150CMH300 or Sternkreuz MSM300 are 30.0mm x 1.5mm thick with plain flat edges

.... whereas the 'correct' original Seiko crystal p/n 300WF0GN00 had a small, but very visible 45Â° polished beveled top edge.

Indeed if you look at most photos of 7A28 Gen.1's which have had their crystal replaced by a 'generic', it's notably absent.

How do I know this ? :huh: Especially as I don't do 7A28's - and especially not military watches. :schmoll: Simple. :smartass:

The 7A38-7010; -701A and the 7A38-701B 'Vulcan' also used the same p/n 300WF0GN00 crystal as the 7A28-7120.

With the way that the crystal is well recessed below the Tachymeter bezel on the 7A38-701x's,

and the edge of the minute ring is effectively in the shade, the beveled edge reflects more light.

So when I needed to replace crystals on one of my 7A38-7010's and my 7A38-701B 'Vulcan' recently ....

I wanted to find a substitute crystal that looked as close to the original Seiko as possible - and think I found one. 

This may not be news to some owners of 7A28-7120's, but I reckon Sternkreuz p/n XMF 300.860 is perfect. :thumbsup:

It's supposed to be a replacement for Seiko crystal p/n 300W08GN00 - wherever that was originally used. 










Cousins UK had them in stock under their p/n S15534 - now changed to XMF300860 (same as Sternkreuz's part number).

At Â£3.95 + VAT each, they're more than double the price of a cheap 'generic' 30mm - but I reckon worth the extra cost. :wink2:

Just promise me one thing. :dontgetit:

With 11,000+ of these 7A28-7120 RAF Gen.1's issued (common as muck, really ) - you won't all rush at once ! :secret:


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38 said:


> As Brandon wrote in a recent thread over on SCWF: RAF Gen 1 Wabi .... and DaveS replied:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The genuine Seiko crystal replacements (300WF0GN00) are "discontinued" but a generic 30mm x 1.5mm mineral crystal will fit.
Click to expand...

Incidentally, what 'the other John' wrote lower down in that same thread:



> The genuine Seiko replacement crystal is still available form Cousins if you have an account.
> 
> They list 2 crystals at different prices but they are in fact the same item so buy the cheaper one.
> 
> Just do a search on their site with the case number.
> 
> I bought 2 last week, because as John says 'You can never have enough spares'.
> 
> OtherJohnUK


.... is complete and utter tosh. :bull*******:

There is only one result returned for a crystal in a case parts search of 7A28-7120 on Cousins: Seiko p/n 300WF0GN00.



















Well, not officially they haven't.


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## bpc

It's good to know that there's a better replacement cyrstal out there that's closer to the original than the cheap glass ones that most of us (myself included) have used.

As it turns out, I have the original crystal from my RAF 7A28 sitting here on my desk. I've taken a few quick photos (my apologies, macro photography on a phone camera doesn't always yeald the best results) to demonstrate Paul's point about the 45 degree bevel. You'll notice that the bevel is on what would have been the inside when on the watch, with quite a few scratches and nicks on the opposite face and edge (thus, my replacing it!).





































Thanks as always Paul, for information I didn't even know I needed!


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## SEIKO7A38

bpc said:


> As it turns out, I have the *original* crystal from my RAF 7A28 sitting here on my desk.


But are you 100% sure that's the original Seiko 300WF0GN00 crystal, and not (already) a cheapo replacement, Brandon ?

For what's supposed to be Hardlex, it does seem to be more battered than most - so it may just be an inferior mineral glass.

I'll try to take some photos at the weekend of one of my duff original Seiko 300WF0GN00 crystals that I've removed.

Not only do they have a larger polished 45Â° beveled *top* edge, there is also a small 'lead-in' bevel on the underside.

I've struggled to try and find an image of a 7A28-7120 which shows what I believe to be the correct original crystal fitted ....

That is, one with the 45Â° polished beveled *top* edge on the outside. This is the best I've found so far:










Note also the image on this web page, which appears to show the same: http://home.earthlink.net/~nederick/SeikoChronoRevuVulcF.htm

and the interesting comment beneath:



> The crystal is mineral glass and although Seiko no longer carries the original crystal (p/n 300WF0GN00) they have cited reference p/n 300P04HN03 as a replacement.


Perhaps DaveS would like to step in, as he if anybody, should know what the correct original crystal looks like. :wink2:


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## bpc

You're right, I don't know that it's the original glass. And if it's not original, there's no way to tell who replaced it. I wonder if the MoD would even have used original Seiko glass in their repair shop? My example is from 1984, the first year of issue, so it's likely that it would have been sent in for repair once or twice.


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## bpc

SEIKO7A38 said:


> I've struggled to try and find an image of a 7A28-7120 which shows what I believe to be the correct original crystal fitted ....
> 
> That is, one with the 45Â° polished beveled *top* edge on the outside.


I did a little looking over on the MWR forum and found this picture (from this thread) from forum member bobsy:










You can definitely see the outer bevel on the left side of the photo. I wonder if whoever repaired mine before I got it just put the glass in backwards? Who knows what the maintainers of these watches did to keep them up while they were in service.


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## SEIKO7A38

bpc said:


> I've taken a few quick photos (my apologies, macro photography on a phone camera doesn't
> 
> always yield the best results) to demonstrate Paul's point about the 45 degree bevel.
> 
> You'll notice that the bevel is on what would have been the inside when on the watch,
> 
> with quite a few scratches and nicks on the opposite face and edge (thus, my replacing it!).


Your photos are actually a lot better than the few Q&D's I rattled off this morning, Brandon. :blush:



SEIKO7A38 said:


> I'll try to take some photos at the weekend of one of my duff original Seiko 300WF0GN00 crystals that I've removed.
> 
> Not only do they have a larger polished 45Â° beveled *top* edge, there is also a small 'lead-in' bevel on the underside.


But as promised .... I trust they demonstrate what I was trying to get at. :lookaround:

First, an original Seiko p/n 300WF0GN00, lightly scratched, recently removed from one of my 7A38-7010's:










As you can see, not only has it got a distinctly polished 45Â° top beveled edge ....

But also, the lead-in bevel on the underneath is quite sizeable, much bigger than I'd remembered, and polished to boot !










Here's the Sternkreuz XMF 300.860 which I was (still am) advocating as suitable replacement:










Although it may not appear so, the 45Â° polished top bevel edge is almost exactly the same size.

However, you'll note that there is virtually no 'lead in' bevel on the underside ....

and that the ground finished edge extends the remainder of the depth of the crystal:










That's actually one of the things I like about using Sternkreuz replacement crystals. :dontgetit:

When you're re-using the original Seiko crystal gasket (as I often do, if it's undamaged) ....

The lack of a lead-in bevel on the underside of the crystal gives you a second bite / more purchase on the original gasket.

It also makes them harder to press fully home - which in my book is a good thing. :hammer:


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## SEIKO7A38

Just to confuse matters further, and take this crystalline nerd-ism :nerd: to the nth degree ....

Here are photos of a couple of the (much) cheaper alternative 'generic' crystals available from Cousins UK.

I didn't actually have a Cousins p/n F150CMH300 30.0mm Ã˜ in my crystal stock, so here's the equivalent 31.0mm Ã˜ version:



















What appears to be a small polished beveled (top) edge in the first photo is actually meant to be the lead-in (bottom) edge.












bpc said:


> You'll notice that the bevel is on what would have been the inside when on the watch ....


Of course, there's nothing to stop you fitting one of these upside-down (as appeared to be the case with yours, Brandon).

Here's the Sternkreuz MSM300 - I've used the 31.0mm Ã˜ (MSM310) version as a replacement in dozens of my 7A38's:



















Again - note the almost total lack of any beveled edge on either side. Tough as old boots, these Sternkreuz crystals ! :hammer:


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## tixntox

SEIKO7A38 said:


> Tough as old boots, these Sternkreuz crystals ! :hammer:


You get what you pay for and that's the truth!

Mike


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## SEIKO7A38

tixntox said:


> You get what you pay for and that's the truth!


Most of the time, Mike.  I'd certainly recommend using Sternkreuz over any other replacement crystal.

But there is another variable we haven't taken into account:



SEIKO7A38 said:


> ....Seiko no longer carries the original crystal (p/n 300WF0GN00) they have cited reference p/n 300P04HN03 as a replacement.
Click to expand...

Has anybody else actually tried using a Seiko p/n 300P04HN03 as a replacement ? :lookaround:

O.K., well first let me tell you this ....

I'm personally not that impressed with what Seiko recommend as alternative replacements for obsolete crystals. :thumbsdown:

Back in April 2009, when I was a comparative '7A38 newbie', and still didn't even know how to change my own crystals :duh:

I bought a gold-plated white-faced 7A38-7260 (my first) with a very badly scratched crystal that had to be replaced.

I didn't then own a crystal press (or many other watch-specific tools), so I went to see my friendly local jeweller.

Told them that I didn't want any old cheap (i.e. Cousins, etc.) 'generic' crystal fitting - I specified GENUINE Seiko.

Of course, what I didn't know at the time, was that the original crystal p/n 310W62JN01 was obsolete and NLA.

Went to pick up the watch, and paid what I (then) thought was a reasonable Â£20 for fitting a new crystal. 

Indeed, to prove that it was a genuine Seiko crystal they'd fitted, the watch-maker gave me the empty Seiko packet.

It was a Seiko p/n 310P02JN02 (as used in a few modern 7T92's). Seiko had supplied it as an alternative to 310W62JN01.

Later on, when I'd had a bit of practice, I decided to pop it out to have a look for myself (and replace it with an MSM310).

It was only 1.34mm thick, compared to 1.52mm thick of the correct original crystal. The diameter was the same.


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38 said:


> tixntox said:
> 
> 
> 
> You get what you pay for and that's the truth!
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the time, Mike.
Click to expand...

To further illustrate my point:

Original Seiko p/n 300WF0GN00 - obsolete and NLA (at any price). 

Cousins current trade prices for the various 'alternative' replacements:

Cousins F150CMH300 - Â£0.52 + VAT

Sternkreuz MSM300 - Â£1.70 + VAT

Sternkreuz XMF300.860 - Â£3.95 + VAT

Seiko p/n 300P04HN03 - Â£11.90 + VAT 

So you can see why many 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 owners may have plumped for 'generic' 30.0mm Ã˜ x 1.5mm crystals.


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## SEIKO7A38

Incidentally, in case you didn't see it, I posted a photo of my 7A38-701B still fitted with the original 300WF0GN00 crystal:










It probably shows that 45Â° polished upper bevel edge of the original Seiko crystal better than any other photo I've taken.

However, I suppose I ought to admit that my (somewhat earlier) 'discovery' that Sternkreuz's XMF 300.860 made a

suitable similar-appearing (if only externally) replacement for Seiko p/n 300WF0GN00 was something of an accident.

Originally, I first bought them to use as replacements in my 7A38-6080's, which used the very similar p/n 300WD6GN00:










I'm pretty sure, nay certain, that this one is already fitted with a Sternkreuz XMF 300.860 replacement crystal. :hammer:


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38 said:


> With 11,000+ of these 7A28-7120 RAF Gen.1's issued (common as muck, really ) ....


Oh well, that's 14 less ! :comando:

*14 Seiko Military Chronograph Watch Cases 7A28-7120*



















Listed yesterday evening on eBay - opening bid price of Â£279 or Â£499 Buy-it-Now. :rofl2:


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## Mil-sub

HiAll.

Was wondering how much these are as there a fine watch, I keep trying to track on down but there always sold when I get there.......! Well if you know where I can get one would love to know thanks. Mark


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## SEIKO7A38

Mil-sub said:


> Well if you know where I can get one would love to know thanks. Mark


Funny you should write that, Mark ....

There's a Seiko Generation 1 Raf Issued Chronograph on the sales forum right at this very moment.

Unfortunately you only need another 48 posts.


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## bpc

Mil-sub said:


> Well if you know where I can get one would love to know thanks. Mark


There's also one for sale over on the SCWF for a not-overly-absurd price.

The seller is actually the same person I bought my Gen 1 from last year.


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38 said:


> Original Seiko p/n 300WF0GN00 - obsolete and NLA (at any price).
> 
> Cousins current trade prices for the various 'alternative' replacements:
> 
> Cousins F150CMH300 - Â£0.52 + VAT
> 
> Sternkreuz MSM300 - Â£1.70 + VAT
> 
> Sternkreuz XMF300.860 - Â£3.95 + VAT
> 
> Seiko p/n 300P04HN03 - Â£11.90 + VAT
> 
> So you can see why many 7A28-7120 RAF Gen. 1 owners may have plumped for 'generic' 30.0mm Ã˜ x 1.5mm crystals.


Or then again, you could buy one from another opportunistic eBay seller ....

who has recently started offering replacement 7A28 RAF Gen. 1 crystals @ Â£13.70 :shocking:










As these are described as 'QUALITY GLASS MADE IN JAPAN' (as opposed to Made in Germany)....

it's probably quite likely that it's the very same crystal you can buy from Cousins UK for Â£0.52 + VAT.

They say there's one born every minute.


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38 said:


> .... Especially as I don't do 7A28's - and especially not military watches. :schmoll:
> 
> With 11,000+ of these 7A28-7120 RAF Gen.1's issued (common as muck, really ) ....


As you may have gathered from my above statements, I am definitely NOT a big fan of military watches. :thumbsdown:

I'm sure Achim won't mind me transposing his post from the '7A38 Vulcan' thread, and quoting it here. :wink2:



hermann said:


> It's strange that people are willing to pay such high prices for watches with military background. The same with the 7A28 RAF.
> 
> Nice watches, no question about it. But for me not that interesting to pay this amount.


In fact, I just don't get this 'military' thing at all. :comando:

I mean, why would anyone in their right mind want to pay Â£450 - Â£500 for a Seiko 7A28-7120 RAF Gen 1 :huh: ....

which 75% of the time appear to be beaten to hell (probably not actually through genuine combat, but neglect)

.... when even the very rarest of civilian version 7A28's and 7A38's will struggle to make anywhere near that ? :dontgetit:

You could probably pick up a very nice (fully working) example of a 'common' 7A28 (or 7A38) for Â£130. Right ? :lookaround:

So will someone please tell me what makes this piece of junk, which has obviously been 'robbed' worth Â£129.99 ?



> *VINTAGE SEIKO MILITARY RAF WATCH 7A28 GENERATION 1 NOT WORKING*
































> MAKER........SEIKO.......RARE RAF PILOTS CHONOGRAPH DATED 1988
> 
> NOTE NEEDS REPAIR....2 BUTTONS MISSING...NO HANDS...RUST ON MOVEMENT
> 
> GLASS CRACKED AND CASE MARKED AT 12 O'CLOCK..BUT WILL POLISH OUT OKAY


Note that the seller conveniently omits to mention that other significant parts

..... such as the chrono' centre second bridge and wheel are also missing. 

The same eBay seller also has two (robbed / damaged) empty 7A28 RAF Gen. 1 cases on offer for Â£35 and Â£45.


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38 said:


> I mean, why would anyone in their right mind want to pay Â£450 - Â£500 for a Seiko 7A28-7120 RAF Gen 1 :huh: ....


I've just watched a Seiko Gen 1 RAF Military Pilots Watch fitted with incorrect replacement hands sell for *Â£460*. 












> The hands have been replaced at some point in its history.
> 
> On 12-Nov-11 at 20:42:58 GMT, seller added the following information:
> 
> Hands changed at service.


World's gone mad. :comando:


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38 said:


> I've struggled to try and find an image of a 7A28-7120 which shows what I believe to be the correct original crystal fitted ....
> 
> That is, one with the 45Â° polished beveled *top* edge on the outside. This is the best I've found so far:


Just found this rather better one in a 'Military Watches' thread on Pistonheads:


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## Tdz840

Gents

Im new to this forum so firstly a big hi to all and I'm hoping you can help me.

i found this post whilst looking for info on my old watch. Apologies in advance for resurrecting it. However there appear some very knowledgable people here, especially regarding this particular watch. This post is for their benefit in the hope it will benefit me

I was in the RN, secondary role as a diver. As part of this they issued me with a chronograph.

i pushed for a Rolex 'T' ( I'm not sure if that nomenclature is correct) but they gave me this Seiko.

Bloody Seiko I thought, weeks of night dives, trawling thru zero viz in Pompey harbour and they give me a scabby Seiko!

Compound it all I knew it would have stuff all water resistance and the square root of fa luminosity at depth!!

However I was faintly enamoured with it simple elegance and on a green (always smelly) NATO strap could muster the part at mess balls against all the crab fats Breitlings they didn't know how to use.

Now dit over, I need some help.

I bought with my gratuity an Omega PO which I'm very happy with. Apart from a v loose bezel, pins that constantly fail on the strap, but unforgiveably it keeps stopping.

Ex oppos have suggested this is due to my desk job and my complete inactivity preventing said watch from charging.

Not true, every hour I drag my behind down to the T boat.

Anyhow Omega is in for an overhaul, will cost a fortune no doubt so my redoubtable Seiko has been scheduled for a Refit.

I see there may be an issue with the glass, which is a pity as mine has some small impercatible scratches. Will they polish out?

I would like to say that it happened as I fended off an Iraqi bayonet or even happier that I fell over outside of the mess pissed and in front of mess president and wife!

Sadly no, and too be honest I'm unsure when it happened. What I do know it needs replacing. I found one on eBay and a seal for smally potatoes and in my rush bought them. Appears not all crystals(why do they call them crystals??) are the same, the original being Discontinued and others have the wrong bevel/ no bevel.

it also appears the watch has some value, so having spent nearly 20 years in the service with me it now has both sentimental AND financial incentives!

So like the Omega I've decided the Seiko needs an overhaul and I might alternate with the Onega when that's back.

Rather than do what I was going to do and take it down the road to Timsons I've decided to look for a person who knows what they are doing.

Who is the nominated guy you all would recommend to service my watch that was involved in the attack on Stanley, Bog Hammer attacks in the Iran Iraq skirmish, shore patrol in Sarejvo and that bayonet attack in Desert Storm?

I'm probably a watch forum virgin so no PMs yet, if so please email me on [email protected]

Apologies for the War and Peace, it's matelots, we do like to 'dit on'!!

Thanks in advance

Russ

PS Another apology for the strap. The supply officer got fed up with me asking for a new strap and this could go over the woolly pully and didn't smell after two days!


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## Caller.

Wow, interesting tale behind that watch and it certainly looks like it's done some mileage! One of the Seiko fans will be along shortly to help you out. They won't be able to resist!


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