# New find Berenard



## Barakus (Oct 26, 2020)

Hello, new user here... just looking to see if anyone has any incite on this new watch find... A "Berenard 21 Prix" Sport wind watch. works great, but cant really find this exact model anywhere.

Pics Link



http://imgur.com/Z5Gf7pI


Thanks in advance!


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Barakus said:


> Hello, new user here... just looking to see if anyone has any incite on this new watch find... A "Berenard 21 Prix" Sport wind watch. works great, but cant really find this exact model anywhere.
> 
> Pics Link
> 
> ...


 Berenard as a watch brand is completely absent from any sources I normally use and only turns up on watches for sale used online, or occasionally on watch forums. At a guess, your watch has a movement by R. Lapanouse SA, a Swiss company that made simple pin-pallet movements and watches branded Lapanouse, Rego and Cimier.

The watch you have is commonly called a Lapanouse Chronograph and any number of makers produced them, under all sorts of names. You can get an idea in this blog, scroll past the pocket watches and history of Cimier. http://www.mcbroom.biz/forum/read.php?5,2931

Did you notice at the bottom of the dial on yours it says "Swss Model"? Whoever made Berenard watches, I have a feeling they weren't Swiss.


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Thanks for that interesting research, @spinynorman, once again beyond the call of duty. 

I have tried a left-field look at the situation which sometimes works and that is to play around with the brand name itself to see what emerges. The name "Berenard" is so close to the name "Bernard" that I wonder if the owner of the Berenard brand merely added the second 'e' to his given name or surname, "Bernard". Interestingly, there is no rendering of "Bernard" as "Berenard" in European languages and Google remains stubbornly opposed to the idea of anyone being called, "Berenard". Adding the 'e' to Bernard to get Berenard does add a touch of Continental magic to the name Bernard. :biggrin:


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Always said:


> Thanks for that interesting research, @spinynorman, once again beyond the call of duty.
> 
> I have tried a left-field look at the situation which sometimes works and that is to play around with the brand name itself to see what emerges. The name "Berenard" is so close to the name "Bernard" that I wonder if the owner of the Berenard brand merely added the second 'e' to his given name or surname, "Bernard". Interestingly, there is no rendering of "Bernard" as "Berenard" in European languages and Google remains stubbornly opposed to the idea of anyone being called, "Berenard". Adding the 'e' to Bernard to get Berenard does add a touch of Continental magic to the name Bernard. :biggrin:


 According to nordicnames.de, Berenard was an old high German variant of Berenhard or Berinhart. Which are related to Bernard.

With the "Swiss Model", usually correctly spelt at least, the frequent substitution of "medals" for "jewels" and the misleading use of "CT18375" on casebacks, I was looking for origins outside of Europe for Berenard watches.


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

I agree with you, Norman @spinynorman, that we should be looking outside Europe for Berenard watches, even if the name "Berenard" is an antique high German variant. I also feel that the use of the term "Swiss Model" is a clue, and it led me to wonder if we might be looking at a North American origin for the watches. However, substituting the term "medals" for "jewels" is a feature that I would not associate with an English-speaking nation. The watch shown here by Barakus uses French-language terms and I have toyed with the notion that these Berenard watches might have originated in French-speaking Canada or some other non-European French-speaking country or area of the world. How about Louis J. Bernard as a contender for the Berenard watches; Mikrolisk lists him for "small watches", based in New Orleans, Louisiana, with the "Bernard" brand name registered by him in 1958. :biggrin:


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Always said:


> I agree with you, Norman @spinynorman, that we should be looking outside Europe for Berenard watches, even if the name "Berenard" is an antique high German variant. I also feel that the use of the term "Swiss Model" is a clue, and it led me to wonder if we might be looking at a North American origin for the watches. However, substituting the term "medals" for "jewels" is a feature that I would not associate with an English-speaking nation. The watch shown here by Barakus uses French-language terms and I have toyed with the notion that these Berenard watches might have originated in French-speaking Canada or some other non-European French-speaking country or area of the world. How about Louis J. Bernard as a contender for the Berenard watches; Mikrolisk lists him for "small watches", based in New Orleans, Louisiana, with the "Bernard" brand name registered by him in 1958. :biggrin:


 Interesting train of thought there, Honour. In "Internal Revenue Acts of the United States, 1909-1950 ..., Volume 32", (ref Google Books) Louis J. Bernard appears as the President of the Louisianna Retail Jewellers' Association. The "Index of Trademarks Issued from the United States Patent and Trademark Office" has Bernard. Louis J.. d.b.a. Bernard & Grunnlng. New Orleans, La. , which turns out to be a jewellery store which traded from the 1930s to the 1970s. http://nutrias.org/monthly/dec2000/grunning.htm.

I can't find any association between that shop and "Bernenard", however.


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## Balaton1109 (Jul 5, 2015)

Sorry I can't help with where, or by whom, this brand was made.

However, at least the "faux chrono" movement in the OP's watch is Swiss-made, namely a 0j Baumgartner 677/680.

Regards.


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Balaton1109 said:


> Sorry I can't help with where, or by whom, this brand was made.
> 
> However, at least the "faux chrono" movement in the OP's watch is Swiss-made, namely a 0j Baumgartner 677/680.
> 
> Regards.


 That's embarrassing, I actually didn't notice there was more than one photo.  Same basis as the Lapanouse/Rego though? The Ranfft descriptions aren't that different.


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## Balaton1109 (Jul 5, 2015)

spinynorman said:


> That's embarrassing, I actually didn't notice there was more than one photo.  Same basis as the Lapanouse/Rego though? The Ranfft descriptions aren't that different.


 Don't be embarrassed - you'd have ID'd the movement if you'd seen it.

From memory, there were a few producers of similar movements, including Phenix, UMF, Lapanouse/Rego and ORA.

Regards.


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## Balaton1109 (Jul 5, 2015)

Always said:


> I agree with you, Norman @spinynorman, that we should be looking outside Europe for Berenard watches, even if the name "Berenard" is an antique high German variant. I also feel that the use of the term "Swiss Model" is a clue, and it led me to wonder if we might be looking at a North American origin for the watches. However, substituting the term "medals" for "jewels" is a feature that I would not associate with an English-speaking nation. The watch shown here by Barakus uses French-language terms and I have toyed with the notion that these Berenard watches might have originated in French-speaking Canada or some other non-European French-speaking country or area of the world. How about Louis J. Bernard as a contender for the Berenard watches; Mikrolisk lists him for "small watches", based in New Orleans, Louisiana, with the "Bernard" brand name registered by him in 1958. :biggrin:


 Whilst I'm afraid it doesn't really advance the cause very much, I thought the contributors may be interested to see this Berenard Sport which I came across the other day whilst browsing in a German forum.

The poster declared it to have a _Lapanousewerke_ and whilst not providing an image thereof, it probably has something similar to the Baumgartner in the OP's watch. Nor did he give any information on the origins of the brand although this one seems to state (indistinctly) "Swiss" on the dial.

Regards.


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