# Patek Philippe - What is the fuss?



## Steve66 (Sep 30, 2010)

Hi,

Can anybody explain why PP is held in such high esteem?

I appreciate that they are in private hands and make their own movements (I guess this includes their quartz pieces!!) but none of them really strike me as stunning when compared to the likes of Breguet and A.Lange & Sohne who aren't even considered 'Trinity' watches and make watches of outstanding beauty?

I cannot believe that PP movements are any superior to Breguet, ALS, Vacheron or JLC and visually they are nothing that special including the complications and grand complications.

What am I missing, is there a bigger picture?

(I also cannot see the appeal of Picasso or Mark Rothko compared to the likes of Caravaggio, Rembrandt and even Banksy)

Perhaps it is time to revise the Trinity (Breguet, ALS and keep Vacheron)?


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## gimli (Mar 24, 2016)

It most likely comes down to *MARKETING*.

Are they high quality ? Yes

Do they make their own movements ? Yes

Do they have a longstanding tradition and experience in the world of horology ? Yes

Are they built and sold in small numbers so as to keep exclusivity of the brand ? Yes

Are they enormously expensive which makes them all the more desirable, exclusive and "special" ? Yes

Are some of the designs so kitschy and ostentatious that only (brainless) russian and arab rich folk will buy ? Da

Did I forget anything ?


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

Quality, history and marketing, and small numbers guaranteeing exclusivity

unlike Breguet they have consistent history too, and have not been resurrected for the brand name

it amazes me that a lot about f their watches do not have a display back. All the hours spent finishing the movement and you can't even see it!


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

Steve66 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can anybody explain why PP is held in such high esteem?
> 
> ...


 Very interesting question Steve and one I support.

In short, probably down to marketing, Rolex are undoubtedly the master's at this?

As we all know, during the 70's the 'skills' of traditional watch making was virtually killed off due the quartz arrival.

It was down to such passionate respecters of traditional watchmaking, the likes of Jean-Claude Biver and the late, great Mr Nicholas Hayek, we can all be eternally grateful for the survival of this wonderful craft!

Not only saving the industry, along with the resurrection of historic brands, we can all enjoy the amazing development's and complications that 'competition' provides us with.

Furthermore, the likes of Breguet, Lange & Sohne and Blancpain deserve to be considered the epitome of the art imho!

I can testify that Blancpain/Piquet are forever pushing the boundaries of traditional watch making...watch this space!

Thanks again Steve for raising the question. :thumbsup:

Alan


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

Karrusel said:


> I cannot believe that PP movements are any superior to Breguet, ALS, Vacheron or JLC and visually they are nothing that special including the complications and grand complications.
> 
> What am I missing, is there a bigger picture?


 Probably comes down a lot to marketing. They coined the slogan that went something like "you never own a Patek, you are just looking after it for the next generation".

Gives the impression of a quality item that should be treasured just like a work of art.There may be other brands that are equal but Patek got in first.

In the USA, Budweiser boosted their market share considerably when they made a big thing about how they produced their beer using only the purest water, the finest ingredients etc. What they described was how all their competitors made their beers as well but they got in first and left everyone else trying to play catch-up.


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## relaxer7 (Feb 18, 2016)

Rich people like exclusive stuff. So exclusive that they hope other rich people don't have the same stuff.

PP = Small numbers = £££££ = I'm rich and have something other people don't


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## Steve66 (Sep 30, 2010)

Karrusel said:


> Very interesting question Steve and one I support.
> 
> In short, probably down to marketing, Rolex are undoubtedly the master's at this?
> 
> ...


 Ah Yes, Blancpain. Another fantastic brand with the famous fifty fathoms and supplied to numerous countries' military navy divers, would be my preference over any Rolex.
Yes, Rolex did supply the Royal navy with the 5513 but was quite basic ?


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

Steve66 said:


> Ah Yes, Blancpain. Another fantastic brand with the famous fifty fathoms and supplied to numerous countries' military navy divers, would be my preference over any Rolex.
> Yes, Rolex did supply the Royal navy with the 5513 but was quite basic ?


 Quite right Steve, the FF in my opinion was the first true dive watch, there is anecdotal evidence to suggest that it did in fact precede the Rolex sub', but Rolex are the 'first' to develop everything, including the wheel? :bash:

Thankfully, Dr Marc Hayek is continuing the passion & vision his grandfather had, along with strengthening the patrimony of the brand.

Alan


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

I think they are like Rolls-Royces they are what we all really want be we won't admit it because we are jealous or something like that :huh:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

relaxer7 said:


> Rich people like exclusive stuff. So exclusive that they hope other rich people don't have the same stuff.
> 
> PP = Small numbers = £££££ = I'm rich and have something other people don't


 They sell PP's in a shop over the road from the Hard Rock Cafe in Tenerife

:laugh: :laugh:

To be fair they are nice, some of the boxes they are in looked like they cost more than my LV

:biggrin:


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

You never actually own one apparently your son nicks it off you when he grows up

This looks very much like a Grand Seiko, so who copied who then


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## Robden (Apr 2, 2016)

So does this have the GS look.


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Nigelp said:


> I think they are like Rolls-Royces they are what we all really want be we won't admit it because we are jealous or something like that :huh:


 Not all of us, I don`t give a flying feck about such items, if people want to buy them that`s their choice, but I`ll give them a miss







:biggrin:


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## SBryantgb (Jul 2, 2015)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Not all of us, I don`t give a flying feck about such items, if people want to buy them that`s their choice, but I`ll give them a miss
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 You seem a little hesitant..... are you really sure you feel this way?


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

SBryantgb said:


> You seem a little hesitant..... are you really sure you feel this way?


 Well, now that you mention it...

YES!!! :biggrin:


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

I think they're top notch watches, whether they're value for money or deserve their 'ranking' isn't probably a worry for the people that buy them. I'd happily own a Nautilus!

When there is talk of the 'holy trinity', I l look at what AP produce and wonder why they are there?


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## xellos99 (Dec 17, 2015)

I don't research or even think about such watches.

However I suspect ( but don't know for sure ) that their movements are amongst the best available to own.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

If Lange or Breguet were swiss they probably would be in the trinity...maybe it would be a quintet but let that not take away from PP.

Patek is regarded as the top of the tree though for good reason. Its not just advertising, they literally cut no corners in their watch production and maybe they aren't too fancy to look at from the outside but inside they are meticulous in their attention to detail.

Some of their inovation and history clearly colours the reputation they hold today...personally I would disregard their quartz offerings (AP and Rolex both have produced quartz watches but I cant hold that against them)

Have a look how many horological prizes they have won...I am not sure of the number without googling but the top watchmakers and watch experts regularly award Patek and one imagines they must know a thing or two.


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Having tried on a few PP it really comes down to taste, some I found utterly underwhelming others quite remarkable.

In regards to the OP question, PP are not some zombie brand like Lange though the quality is there the tradition perhaps not so. An Aquanaut is not much more than the royal oak and many VC watches are around the same price as a PP. The VC traditional in platinum is around 20k so there is nothing extraordinary about PP prices. People will likewise pay 35K for a platinum president which to me is bonkers but each to their own.

I don't think the price is any more remarkable than any other watch out there it just depends on how much you are willing to spend.


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

There is a theory that too much emphasis is placed in some circles on the idea that a great watch must of necessity be one that has been made by an independent company, with a movement also made by that same firm. History tells us that this conservative view doesn't hold true today and has probably never held true since the advent of the watch as a popular and useful accessory. Point made I still love some of the wonderful watches made by the remaining independent luxury watchmakers.


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## MWaheed (Oct 12, 2016)

PP spend on average about 40% of their Budget on marketing (Airport ads, tv ads, PACKAGING takes a lot out of it and their points of sales always have a contract clause that they don't have both VC or Breguet. This way all over the world they are displayed to the highest of grade. Above all they actually make amazing watches considering their ethics and philosophy. Ive been lucky enough to try one on and they feel miles ahead of most watches for reasons you cant name.

I prefer PP using their marketing to seem more attractive to the customer rather than Rolex who advertise to chavs and celebs. Mostt people who own a rolex don't know anything about the inside of their watches. Much like the kids who own Ferraris and know the top speed their Ferrari as they can read an owners manual. Hublot are now going on that path by paying every footballer to wear their watches.

Another thing with PP is they are 100% Swiss, including the leather, and use age olded techniques such as blue screws and placing methods which don't make any difference to the watches ability but they do it out of respect to the craft. Once you go into the high end watch grades, its these small things which set it apart as purely on movement there's a top 7 which all operate at the same standard pretty much. (PP, Vacheron, Breguet, GP, A.Lange, AP, J LeCoultre, )


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

Hi MWaheed

Interesting post, your top 7, are you speaking from personal experience, that is, visits to their workshops or just handling the timepieces in a boutique?

Alan


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## Steve66 (Sep 30, 2010)

Caller. said:


> I think they're top notch watches, whether they're value for money or deserve their 'ranking' isn't probably a worry for the people that buy them. I'd happily own a Nautilus!
> 
> When there is talk of the 'holy trinity', I l look at what AP produce and wonder why they are there?


 I couldn't agree more about AP, I didn't even mention AP in my original post as part of the 'trinity' as I think they are, dare I say ...ugly?


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## MWaheed (Oct 12, 2016)

Hi Karrusel

It's abit of both, Ive been to Le Loch and La Chaux where a lot of the top brands operate and you can really see the difference between brands and craftsmen. Generally in those area's the watch makers respect those few brands for the reasons I mentioned. I think there are a lot of great brands out there from mid priced to the top end but its what sets them apart is so small that all those small aspects make a complete brand.

The history has a small part to play as most brands have been through so many stages in their time line but I always believe that its more their ethos to how they produce now consistently. Any brand can make 1 amazing watch but its more difficult to be on top in all aspects which most of us forget. In Interlaken in Switzerland where the most top brand watches are sold in the world in terms of quantity its mainly those brands which have a complete presentation from start to finish. You can have other amazing watch brands there but those 7 and of course a few more have a story from the watch, its production, its research to design the watch and once you say yes.... you have the presentation and packaging with the after sales which make you realise what sets these companies apart. For me its like when you go out to eat, its the overall package rather than just the food ( Or we all may dine in Mcdonalds most the time....)


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## Jeremy Fisher (Jan 28, 2012)

xellos99 said:


> I don't research or even think about such watches.
> 
> However I suspect ( but don't know for sure ) that their movements are amongst the best available to own.


 That one is actually a Lemania ebauche they modified. A lot of their price is due to the brand value (Patek, Vacheron & AP have all outsourced movements - usually for Chronographs and complications: AP at one point used ebuache movements in the majority of their watches - the former two only recently went 100% in house and I think AP still outsources some). The rest is standard of the finishing. All three of the "Holy Trinity" go for Geneva seal standard, which calls for an insane level of attention to detail.



Daveyboyz said:


> If Lange or Breguet were swiss they probably would be in the trinity...


 Breguet is Swiss.


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

richy176 said:


> In the USA, Budweiser boosted their market share considerably when they made a big thing about how they produced their beer using only the purest water, the finest ingredients etc. What they described was how all their competitors made their beers as well but they got in first and left everyone else trying to play catch-up.


 I think you'll find this classic advert did more for Budweiser sales than any amount of descriptions about the ingredients:






Sorry, I haven't got anything sensible to add to this thread, I know sweet FA about PP other than the fact that most of their products cost more than my car, and some are probably a lot more than my house... :laugh:


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Not all of us, I don`t give a flying feck about such items, if people want to buy them that`s their choice, but I`ll give them a miss
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 It was tongue in cheek I wouldn't be seen dead in a roller


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Breguet is French.



Jeremy Fisher said:


> Breguet is Swiss.


 Breguet was founded in Paris. That makes it French I think.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Daveyboyz said:


> Breguet is French.
> 
> Breguet was founded in Paris. That makes it French I think.


 :biggrin:

Agreed, but learn to make allowances therefore you won't take for granted your knowledge, or get annoyed.


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## Jeremy Fisher (Jan 28, 2012)

Daveyboyz said:


> Breguet is French.
> 
> Breguet was founded in Paris. That makes it French I think.


 Its been made in Switzerland since Swatch revived the brand (using Lemania, which it also owns, as its "in house" manufacturer)


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

If it's of any interest, Abraham Louis-Brequet was born in Neuchatel, Switzerland.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Yeah, I hear you but its like calling Rolls Royce German... Sure they own it but it is as English as Tea and Scones. The pedigree being that of a watchmaker apprenticed in Versailles who established a business servicing the court of King Louis I make it French. I am sorry if my comment came across as curt, I revised the original comment "Breguet is French" to include that they established in France, and didn't delete the first statement so it sounded brash even though it wasn't meant as such.

I also don't make Lennox Lewis English... he might hold a British passport but when you speak with a funny accent and represent Canada in the Olympics you aren't an Englishman in my book. Some people find this upsetting, but it is only a cultural thing, other cultures don't all make you native for merely being born somewhere and I have to agree. For an example if you are born to foreign parents who don't speak the language and know none of the English customs and then schooled in a school to which only a small fraction of the pupils are English... you might officially be British but how English are you? You have none of the cultural identities of an English person, most of the customs and traditions would be alien to you and quite possibly there would be no sense of belonging. This is why in my opinion London is now a foreign country, all the cockney traditions have been eradicated by a population replacement which would have integrated if it had occurred at a slower rate but because of the speed none of them picked up simply English ways of doing things, like thanking someone who held a door open for you or waved you across the road and saying hello when you walk into a shop...but I digress,...

I don't quite understand the relevance of a Swiss connection to being a good watchmaker, but I don't think there is any coincidence in the Swiss brands being placed above all others... some say that the Japanese for all their ruthless efficiency lack the flair, and the Germans as mechanically sound as they are don't have the art. Personally I think if any two brands disproved it then Breguet and Lange prove the point, they deserve to be noted to similar extent. I am sure you can be a fine watchmaker and perform your art from any place in the world but for some reason the Swiss just seem to be dab hands at it and if you aren't in that club maybe you won't get equal respect.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Suprised that no one has compared PP to George Daniels....Considered by some to have been one of the finest watchmakers ever. (According to Wikipedia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Daniels_(watchmaker)


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

I often wonder why if a brand is expensive it produces such aggressive reactions to it? Citizen have some of the most cringe worthy ads especially around their eco drive. Seiko had plenty of awful ads especially their 70s and 80s ads both also produce watches that cost tens of thousands of pounds while also churning out masses of gaudy tat. Tissot have been a disaster for decades until they started doing a few modifications to their ETA movements. Patek in many ways are similar to Rolex in that they have had a standard line they have not deviated much from for decades and have been highly respected for doing just that. They produce high quality watches and have years of experience doing so. They have not been bought out or "revived" and their watches are no more expensive than Lange, VC, AP, many Breguet etc and their flagship watches hold their value very well. Why should they not be respected? They hold their value better than a Lange or a Cellini or a car for that matter.


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

Roger the Dodger said:


> Suprised that no one has compared PP to George Daniels....Considered by some to have been one of the finest watchmakers ever. (According to Wikipedia)
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Daniels_(watchmaker)


 Roger you have my attention Sir

George Daniels arguably the greatest watchmaker of the 20th century!

Probably the only man to have made a complete watch by hand, encompassing about 32 individual skills.

Roger W Smith, his only apprentice, has achieved the same feat and many suggest will surpass the achievements of his master.

I recommend to all the DVD 'Watchmakers Apprentice', chronicling George Daniels life and the ascendancy of Roger Smith, along with George's tomes.

Both George & Roger are held in the highest regard in the Jura Mountains!

It was remiss of me not include these gentleman in previous posts, thanks again Roger.

Alan


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

i have two patek P's. one is the plain military and the other is an "early electric" that runs fine. ill post um in the gallery when their found. vinn


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

Davey P said:


> I think you'll find this classic advert did more for Budweiser sales than any amount of descriptions about the ingredients:


 You may be right but my example came from a case study at Harvard Business School for MBA students.


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

Daveyboyz said:


> Sure they own it but it is as English as Tea


 We may drink lots of tea but it comes mainly from China and India and China in particular treats tea with far more grace and custom than we do.



Daveyboyz said:


> I also don't make Lennox Lewis English..


 Agreed - often wonder why we make so much fuss of Lewis Hamilton who claims cultural links to Jamaica and chooses to live in Switzerland and Monaco for tax reasons - should he be up for `sports personality of the year?"



ZenArcade said:


> I often wonder why if a brand is expensive it produces such aggressive reactions to it?


 Probably a kind of reverse snobbery from people who can not afford them. If you go back about 50 years then watches from Rolex and PP stood out much more in terms of accuracy and quality. With advances in technology accuracy is now more easily achieved and especially since the introduction of quartz movements and at prices that allow you to wear a watch every day for 10 years or so and then replace it for less than the cost of a service on a Rolex/PP etc. This then allows people to ask how you can justify spending all that money on a watch when others are queuing at food banks or starving in Africa.


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## rafy1 (Oct 11, 2016)

Top Quality, Top beautiful, Top Class!!!


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

richy176 said:


> You may be right but my example came from a case study at Harvard Business School for MBA students.


 My research was based on the fact that for at least a year after that advert was first aired, I always answered my mate's incoming phone calls with "Wassup!!!" :laugh:


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

We know all about the history of tea, but I said "tea and scones" Do they have scones with their tea in China or India? If you are going to quote me best that you don't chop the sentence in half to change the meaning...having said that drinking tea has become an English past-time, and did you know that every piece of army equipment is fitted with apparatus to boil water? This means no matter how bad things get our boys can always have a brew such is the importance of a cup of Rosey Lea.

Regarding Lewis Hamilton he should not be up for sports personality of the year on account of him having an awful personality. When something goes wrong for Button (as it invariably does) he gives a smile, and explanation and a "There's always next week" but Lewis cries his eye's out as if he is entitled to win every race... combine this with some of the moronic comments he has mad like when asked about Schumachers accident he said "Everything happens for a reason" and I just think the guys a nob.

Let me point out though that Rolex has been mentioned in this thread several times as an example similar to Patek. They are a strong brand but are not in the same class if you are talking horology. Rolex doesn't get prizes because they never enter anything, they make robust but simple watches, they tend to adopt other peoples idea's rather than invent their own (they usually improve and develop such idea's to be fair) Rolex has its virtues in value retention, brand recognisability, longevity and durability and I totally agree that earlier in the century there was more to differentiate the higher quality watches from the run of the mill ones but Rolex is no Patek and clearly doesn't aspire to be.


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## RTM Boy (Jun 1, 2011)

PP has consistency - it's not been revived or swallowed by a globalised luxury brand group, produces circa 50,000 watches pa. Its ads sell a lifestyle of sorts, but PP is tasteful and doesn't feel the need to plaster its name over every billboard at, for example, a Grand Prix; Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex-Rolex. And somehow I think Lewis Hamilton doesn't own one - unless PP has started to make ear studs. Oh yes, no brand extensions either. Also PP doesn't suffer from some of the widely-held images much of the general public has of the type of person who typically wears a Rolex or a TAG - real or fake - (yes, yes, I know...). But perhaps critically PP is so respected by the jewellery trade as 'the best' in watches.


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## Steve66 (Sep 30, 2010)

scottswatches said:


> Quality, history and marketing, and small numbers guaranteeing exclusivity
> 
> unlike Breguet they have consistent history too, and have not been resurrected for the brand name
> 
> it amazes me that a lot about f their watches do not have a display back. All the hours spent finishing the movement and you can't even see it!


 Are you saying that Breguet had stopped production until Swatch came along? I was under the impression that Breguet has always been in production albeit in very small numbers in France until Swatch (God bless them) pumped in the funds to propel them back to the top and yes transfer the brand to Switzerland. Breguet is and will always be French as this is where they made their name.



scottswatches said:


> Quality, history and marketing, and small numbers guaranteeing exclusivity
> 
> unlike Breguet they have consistent history too, and have not been resurrected for the brand name
> 
> it amazes me that a lot about f their watches do not have a display back. All the hours spent finishing the movement and you can't even see it!


 Are you saying that Breguet had stopped production until Swatch came along? I was under the impression that Breguet has always been in production albeit in very small numbers in France until Swatch (God bless them) pumped in the funds to propel them back to the top and yes transfer the brand to Switzerland. Breguet is and will always be French as this is where they made their name.



scottswatches said:


> Quality, history and marketing, and small numbers guaranteeing exclusivity
> 
> unlike Breguet they have consistent history too, and have not been resurrected for the brand name
> 
> it amazes me that a lot about f their watches do not have a display back. All the hours spent finishing the movement and you can't even see it!


 Are you saying that Breguet had stopped production until Swatch came along? I was under the impression that Breguet has always been in production albeit in very small numbers in France until Swatch (God bless them) pumped in the funds to propel them back to the top and yes transfer the brand to Switzerland. Breguet is and will always be French as this is where they made their name.


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## Jeremy Fisher (Jan 28, 2012)

Steve66 said:


> Are you saying that Breguet had stopped production until Swatch came along? I was under the impression that Breguet has always been in production albeit in very small numbers in France until Swatch (God bless them) pumped in the funds to propel them back to the top and yes transfer the brand to Switzerland. Breguet is and will always be French as this is where they made their name.


 Breguet went into freefall in the 70s. The family sold the company and was owned by various different holding companies and I think one of them moved Breguet to Switzerland in the 70s, not Swatch.

In the 80s, the stopped producing altogether (but still sold watches they had in stock) as the company (then brand) was passed through many different hands. By the time Swatch purchased it, they got little but the name.

Swatch's Breguet was revived in the late 90s and did not include a transfer the knowhow or machinery and hence used Lemania to manufacture new movements.

I can respect why you would consider them to be French in spirit (It was the brand Victor Hugo would often include in his famously French novels) but to me, as with Hamilton's former US heritage, it is now a solidly Swiss brand. It is owned by Swatch, produced in Switerland using Swiss expertise and Swiss designs by what used to be Lemania, a Swiss movement maker.


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## Steve66 (Sep 30, 2010)

Jeremy Fisher said:


> Breguet went into freefall in the 70s. The family sold the company and was owned by various different holding companies and I think one of them moved Breguet to Switzerland in the 70s, not Swatch.
> 
> In the 80s, the stopped producing altogether (but still sold watches they had in stock) as the company (then brand) was passed through many different hands. By the time Swatch purchased it, they got little but the name.
> 
> ...


 Thank you for the information


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## Steve66 (Sep 30, 2010)

I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone for all their personal and constructive comments, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading them and in particular the common courtesy shown by all, it reminds of a very poignant statement I once read:-

'A Jew, a Christian and an Arab walked into a bar………and discussed watches'

I believe it is now time to drop the 'Trinity' school of thought as nowadays new contenders have entered the arena.

All the top tier brands are absolutely outstanding and each can create visions of mechanical wizardry and beauty.

At the end of the day only personal choice can determine your favourite brand/watch design!

For me personally...ALS

Once again thank you to all


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## AVO (Nov 18, 2012)

I don't especially WANT to buy a Calatrava - but I would like to be ABLE to buy one should I so wish. In the same way that I would like to be able to watch the sunset from my villa overlooking the Med, or to be able to walk onto a long haul flight and turn left.

Still, I suppose that being able to wear a nice Cartier, board an aeroplane a few times a year and jump into the Med occasionally makes me significantly better off than most of the world's population.

Now a Vacheron...that's another story!


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Their catalogue makes pretty good reading and browsing. This one came from Berry's in Windsor and I was told that they normally don't leave the shop...you have to look at it there. My friend went to try on a few Pateks there and was allowed to take this one home as he was really intent on buying one (he hasn't done so yet!) and he gave it to me. There is an accompanying price list, but as the old cliché goes....'if you need to look, you can't afford it'.....and some of the prices are eyewatering!


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Roger the Dodger said:


> Their catalogue makes pretty good reading and browsing. This one came from Berry's in Windsor and I was told that they normally don't leave the shop...you have to look at it there. My friend went to try on a few Pateks there and was allowed to take this one home as he was really intent on buying one (he hasn't done so yet!) and he gave it to me. There is an accompanying price list, but as the old cliché goes....'if you need to look, you can't afford it'.....and some of the prices are eyewatering!


 That is because they are not for us enthusiasts, but rather the very wealthy. I very much doubt we can count many millionaires among us? Surely they are the real Market :biggrin:

Basically us lot are ordinary. But enthusiastic about it.


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## IBM (Sep 25, 2018)

My 2 cents....As someone who has recently bought a Patek aquanaut on a bracelet, I can personally say that I have never been so impressed by a watch. Looks 'nice' in pictures, but in the flesh it's on a different level. Certainly on a different level to all my other watches (including Rolex, Tag, Omega,JLC, Cartier), and others I have owned (breguet and AP).

What makes it special? The finishing is ridiculous. Bracelet is a work of art. Dial has to be seen to be fully appreciated. Solid gold rotor. Obviously the man hours on the movement pushes the price up a lot, To me there is just something very special about the watch....and most importantly it puts a smile on my face everytime I wear it.

I have never owned or tried on a Lange, so couldn't honestly compare, but only heard great things about their watches


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

IBM said:


> but﻿﻿ in the fles﻿h it'﻿s on a ﻿differ﻿en﻿t lev﻿el. ﻿


 Let's see a wrist shot then.


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## IBM (Sep 25, 2018)

Will do. Have tried by my Dropbox link doesn't seem to work. Can you upload videos too?


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

IBM said:


> Will do. Have tried by my Dropbox link doesn't seem to work. Can you upload videos too?


 if you upload videos to a service like YouTube or Flickr you should be able to share them


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## IBM (Sep 25, 2018)

Ah cool. Ok thanks


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## yokel (Jul 30, 2017)

Does anyone else think that "you never actually own a PP" is simply a shallow attempt to inveigle those who can't really afford a PP (and with weak minds) into buying?


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

yokel said:


> Does anyone else think that "you never actually own a PP" is simply a shallow attempt to inveigle those who can't really afford a PP (and with weak minds) into buying?


 As I said somewhere else, that's the most rubbish line ever! If I've just paid 100K for a Patek, it's mine...I'm not renting the damn thing....end of. :aggressive:


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## IBM (Sep 25, 2018)

I think it's one of, if not THE, most pompous, pretentious and cringeworthy slogans I have ever heard.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/21zyu7uio55wh37/Photo 25-09-2018%2C 21 29 37.png?dl=0

does that work?


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Very nice, do you get the rubber as well as the bracelet because as nice as the bracelet is I quite like the aquanaut on rubber.


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## r-macus (Jun 7, 2018)

While there is no doubt PP are masters, like top of the game total legendary. One has to take into account that there is always somebody else than can match or do it better, no matter the discipline be it sport, cooking, etc. etc. So when you start to shout out names like ALS, Jager, VC, Roger smith , Breguet , and on and on. All on par, maybe better, you need an edge. That's why marketing, product endorsement , exclusivity and loyalty all help to play a roll to keep ahead/afloat . Anyway you all know this.


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## IBM (Sep 25, 2018)

Daveyboyz said:


> Very nice, do you get the rubber as well as the bracelet because as nice as the bracelet is I quite like the aquanaut on rubber.


 No just bought it on the bracket, with the thought of possibly buying a rubber strap at a later date. But as of right now I love the bracket so much I don't see myself changing anytime soon. Though if one came up at the right price I would probably buy it, just to have the option. At the time of purchase I really wanted a high end steel sports watch, don't like the Royal Oak, refuse to spend 40k on a nautilus, and the VC overseas I am waiting for the new ones to come to the pre owned market before pulling the trigger. In fact the nicest steel watch I have tried on is the Piaget Polo S with blue dial. For £6kish it's an incredible watch. Though for some reason it is widely disliked.


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

In answer to the original question can we please not talk about this too much? I for one am quite happy with the fact that I can pick up a Blancpain or Breguet for almost half the price of a Patek.



JonnyOldBoy said:


> PP are no doubt fabulous watches. But the salient point is "Are they worth the money ?" .... From what I have seen .... nope , there is better for the same money almost every time in my opinion.


 Breguet Classique - Patek Calatrava

GP Laureato - Patek Nautilus

Blancpain 50 Fathoms - Patek Aquanaut

Lange - Patek

The list is endless (Still love Patek though!)


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

IBM said:


> No just bought it on the bracket, with the thought of possibly buying a rubber strap at a later date. But as of right now I love the bracket so much I don't see myself changing anytime soon. Though if one came up at the right price I would probably buy it, just to have the option. At the time of purchase I really wanted a high end steel sports watch, don't like the Royal Oak, refuse to spend 40k on a nautilus, and the VC overseas I am waiting for the new ones to come to the pre owned market before pulling the trigger. In fact the nicest steel watch I have tried on is the Piaget Polo S with blue dial. For £6kish it's an incredible watch. Though for some reason it is widely disliked.


 I loved the look of the Piaget when I saw it online but seeing it up front I thought it was a little too chunky, a bit too much steel I think the black PVD version looks better or the chronograph which to be honest when you think that can be had for 8k in comparison to other high end brands its a very good option.


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## IBM (Sep 25, 2018)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> PP are no doubt fabulous watches. But the salient point is "Are they worth the money ?" .... From what I have seen .... nope , there is better for the same money almost every time in my opinion.


 I would say yes in general they are worth the money. Most watches are, apart from some Tags and Rolex's. Where you are clearly paying for their advertising costs

Zen, interesting you thought it was too chunky, as Piaget are known for their slimness, but yeah it's quite a hefty watch


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## IBM (Sep 25, 2018)

I do own a few Rolex's, and would say overpriced compared to other watch brands of similar quality/finish/movement.

Prime example, Daytona price (new and preowned) compared to Omega speedmaster. Or Submariner compared to Seamaster. Or Datejust compared to Globemaster. (I can only think of Omega comparisons just now! Haha)

Or is Omega just very well priced?? Hmmm. Anyway that's just my thoughts


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## IBM (Sep 25, 2018)

I basically disagree with everything you just said. But anyway, interesting to know other people's opinions.

I respect your opinion, but just disagree.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

They are literally worth the money... they retain very well if you buy well.

As to what else you could get for less cash your observation is correct, though they will likely cost you more even if the price tag is smaller.


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## longplay (Sep 27, 2017)

For those to lazy to click/browsing


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## Kev7950 (Sep 5, 2017)

scottswatches said:


> Quality, history and marketing, and small numbers guaranteeing exclusivity
> 
> unlike Breguet they have consistent history too, and have not been resurrected for the brand name
> 
> it amazes me that a lot about f their watches do not have a display back. All the hours spent finishing the movement and you can't even see it!


 Couldn't agree more about the display back


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

IBM said:


> I do own a few Rolex's, and would say overpriced compared to other watch brands of similar quality/finish/movement.
> 
> Prime example, Daytona price (new and preowned) compared to Omega speedmaster. Or Submariner compared to Seamaster. Or Datejust compared to Globemaster. (I can only think of Omega comparisons just now! Haha)
> 
> Or is Omega just very well priced?? Hmmm. Anyway that's just my thoughts


 There are many brands out there that have a better value for money than Rolex not just Omega (Breguet, Blancpain, Zenith just to name a few) I think the Globemaster is not much cheaper than a date just (Though they can be found at a discount)


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## IBM (Sep 25, 2018)

ZenArcade said:


> There are many brands out there that have a better value for money than Rolex not just Omega (Breguet, Blancpain, Zenith just to name a few) I think the Globemaster is not much cheaper than a date just (Though they can be found at a discount)


 My point being that the globemaster is on a different level to the datejust for a similar price


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## Horologee (Jan 23, 2021)

_Perhaps the value is more to do with the unmistakable craftsmanship and attention to detail. A basic printed dial takes a minimum of 50 manufacturing operations. Every individual movement component is finished and polished by hand, the teeth of the wheels are polished using wood and it takes the operative 5 years of training to carry out this procedure. A simple Calatrava takes over a year to produce from start to finish. A decorative enamel dial can take up to 200 hours to paint, entirely by hand. I've been to the Patek Philippe manufacture on several occasions and I'm always stunned by the attention to detail, passion and absolute commitment to producing timepieces which carry the Patek Philippe Seal (Patek decided that the Geneva Seal didn't represent their philosophy on manufacturing standards any longer so introduced their own seal). Oh, and they have all the tooling going back to 1839 so if you own a VERY old Patek and it needs repairing, they can do it. Not like the majority of houses today who just say sorry, discontinued model, unable to service. I could spend hours talking about the brand.........._


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