# More Bike Madness



## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

I can't watch this again.







This kid has balls of steel, he must be 21 years old max, he thinks he is indestructible. I wonder if he is still alive?









http://www.wkyc.com/video/player.aspx?aid=...6&sid=34467&bw=


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

This is why I think ABS is such a good idea.

No matter how experienced you are, you're going to get it wrong eventually and panic brake.

I'm on my 2nd ABS equipped bike and I would never have one without it now.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

This guy didn't have ABS


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Interesting... I cant see the video but get its drift... my immediate thoughts on ABS for bikes was 'no!' but then I rememeber thinking that about ABS in cars when it first came out. I used to hate the fact that it would cut in slowing down for traffic lights on wet roads or braking on bumpy roads and seemed to lengthen the stopping distance as the slow brain passed info about the brakes. But the systems got better and now I wouldnt be without it. I expect it will be the same for bikes, although I draw the line at linked brakes atm, because that feels different and means changing my riding style... with abs in cars I havent changed my style at all, in fact its helped me maintain the same 'brake as hard as you can' ethos I developed when I did my first trackday!


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Jon

My BMW bike has what they call integral brakes.

In other words the brakes are linked with servo assistance as well as ABS.

I'm with you on the linked aspect.

Great if you have to haul up fast from motorway speeds but a pain to operate smoothly at town speeds.

It's all very clever though and I would challenge anyone short of a racer to out brake me from 100mph on wet slippery roads.

Actually I did try it with a friend of mine who rides a Hayabusa and is a very skilled rider and he was gobsmacked that AI was able to stop about about three car lengths before him in the wet, on a bike weighing significantly more.

The days of ABS increasing stopping distances are long gone and you really have to experience it to believe it.


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Yes I know the system youre talking about Andy. I tried it on a 1200GS. Its stunning and coupled with BMWs ABS its very clever indeed and I wouldnt put any money on beating one to a stop, but the payoff is the strange feeling you get when braking with the linked effect. Im sure they will improve but I would occasionally forget and then get that sudden stiffening of the body when fear of an unknown problem arises when biking, until I worked out what it was... too many years of constantly monitoring old tuned 2 stroke bikes I guess! Roll on the future when all bikes have good brakes!


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Yeah the problem I find with BMW's integral system is slow speed controlled braking.

It just feels over braked at town speeds and sometimes when your slow riding and just want to apply a little more pressure, say, to negotiate a gap in the traffic that tiny little bit more pressure causes the brakes to bite like a knife into plasticine and you can lose balance in these situations.

The brakes aren't progressive.

They're either gently, or full on.

There's nothing in between.

I've had the bike two years and covered 18,000 miles now and I still haven't got to grips with it.

Having said that I can't think of a bike I'd rather be on if I had to anchor on hard from high speed in the wet.

Griff.

Very good pic


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Andy, I read what you wrote with interest and whilst I can see you love the beemer, I also detect you still havent got to grips with it in a long time of real riding. I may be paraphrasing of course. What concerns me is that in two years you still havent unlearned what you already knew about braking on a bike... Which is cool, but probably means Im gonna struggle the same and it just puts me off taking the plunge and spending that much cash as I only ever buy bikes new these days... If there is one aspect of a motor vehicle I always like to trust its the brakes. Its strange that bmw havent sorted that glitch really since its an integral part of everyday riding. Is it worth getting them checked over as I worry about the unbalanced bit on your bike...







I guess also that FWIW its not that wet here so the pay off for me is a high price... I just wish they would move this technology on as Im sure it will be great in years to come, along with 2WD!

Over here cars have their indicators on the wrong side... like we used to in the UK in the 70s - ie the indicators are on the RHS of the column. Ive been here 6 months and driven 10k kms and im ok with not flicking the wipers on instead of indicating 99.99999% of the time now, but when it all gets a bit hairy changing 5 lanes at once in 100m to find an exit or accidentally head back over the bridge and pay a toll again in the city I do occasionally revert to where my mind knows indicators live after many years of driving... my worry is that with the GS I looked at that Id like the bike to feel and handle like I expect in a hairy situation and not give me an extra thing to think about.... talking of indictaors those on the bmw were just plain silly, unless a person has only ever ridden a bmw of course! Sigh, I can see really that Ive held off with buying the thing as I just cant bring myself to take the plunge! I can also see me preordering the KTM 950SM for when it arrives here and having one of the first off the boat so I can have a conventional quality bike and just stuff my mates 1150GS' paniers with my gear!


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## foztex (Nov 6, 2005)

Andy

On my GS (R1100, pre-release before they came out in the UK







, and still love it). I can disable the ABS. Can you still do that? Then Jon could run with it off on the '0ccasional' sunny day they have Auz and leave it on for long hauls and bad weather.

Not an ideal solution I know (the flashing ABS light is a wee bit annoying) but an idea all the same. I adore my GS for everything, dead comfy long distance and around town your eye-level is about 2 inches above that of a range rover driver, so you can truly see and be seen.

Andy


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

foztex said:


> Andy
> 
> On my GS (R1100, pre-release before they came out in the UK
> 
> ...


Hi Andy, Im pretty sure the 1200 comes with a switchable ABS (ABS is standard on Aus models). I need to have another ride back to back with the katoom in June (







) when it gets hereI guess. I love the look of it, its quality and its ride... Its just got some annoying details, sigh... I am tempted tho and its still on my shortlist if I can only just live with the details...


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

I think I heard that BMW had a lot of complaints about the fully integrated system and on their more recent models it's "partially integrated" meaning when you operate the front brake the rear is linked but the rear brake can be operated independantly.

Andy.

The ABS is not the problem.

It's the linked braking system that is the problem in my opinion.

I believe it upsets the balance in some situations.

For example say if you had to scrub off some speed quickly mid corner.

Of course you'd only use the rear brake as tugging the front can do one of two things.

Either the bike stands up and goes straight on (into a hedge), or, the front tucks in.

On my bike I have no choice.

If I'm leaning over scraping the pegs and suddenly need to slow up quick, my bikes going to apply front in equal measure to rear and I think it's dangerous.

Honda are also keen on this system and use it extensively on several models.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

But will that ABS prevent this:-


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## foztex (Nov 6, 2005)

Andy said:


> I think I heard that BMW had a lot of complaints about the fully integrated system and on their more recent models it's "partially integrated" meaning when you operate the front brake the rear is linked but the rear brake can be operated independantly.
> 
> Andy.
> 
> ...


Andy

Sounds like what an ideal mod would be is a mercury switch that disables the link system if the bike is leaning over.

Great picture Griff, I wonder how far it was home, standing up all the way, nasty









Foz (well all the Andy's were getting confusing







)


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Griff said:


> But will that ABS prevent this:-


Without actually knowing the circumstances it's diffucult to say but BMW carried out a survey into accidents recently and whilst I can't remember the exact figures, they concluded that a startling amount of accidents, injuries and deaths would definately have been avoided with ABS.


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Ouch indeed... thats one of the downsides of off road gear in a road crash...









Andy, ISTR Honda have linked brakes on the VFR800 and the Pan, and im sure on the GoldWing too...


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