# I'M New To This, But Love Some Advice On Omega Speedmaster Pro



## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

Hi all, I wonder if anyone can help. I'm new to watch collecting, not exactly rich, but finally decided on the watch I want - a used omega speedmaster professional (moon watch). Probably looking for a manual one. I'll prob buy a leather strap, but stainless steel one will be good to start.

My difficulty is a) how do I avoid buying a fake - I've looked on eBay and I just don't trust some of the watches there, plus i'm cynical B) what would be a fair price in people's opinion (my only other watches were Â£100, so I don't want to get this wrong, as I'd like to start collecting, and have a few nice watches)

Any thoughts on this one:

Thanks

Dave


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## Pob (May 28, 2010)

Good choice, dlallen. 

If I wanted to avoid buying a fake though, I would start by avoiding e-bay!

I've bought from here before,

....and here,

....but use a respected seller, or check the forum sales threads. Good luck!


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

dlallen1968 said:


> Hi all, I wonder if anyone can help. I'm new to watch collecting, not exactly rich, but finally decided on the watch I want - a used omega speedmaster professional (moon watch). Probably looking for a manual one. I'll prob buy a leather strap, but stainless steel one will be good to start.
> 
> My difficulty is a) how do I avoid buying a fake - I've looked on eBay and I just don't trust some of the watches there, plus i'm cynical B) what would be a fair price in people's opinion (my only other watches were Â£100, so I don't want to get this wrong, as I'd like to start collecting, and have a few nice watches)
> 
> ...


Well, the 'Moon watch' Speedy Pro only comes in manual wind so thats good... They have remained virtually unchanged for the last 40 years so there are lots of examples out there with prices from around Â£1100 up to list price...... It depends on your budget , just over a grand will get you one that is well used with no box or papers or bracelet ( probably ) all the way upto list for a brand new one. A recent ( last 5 years ) one with all the bits will start at Â£1500ish I would say, not much point in spending more than 2k second hand in my opinion .....

As with all these things the advice is 'buy the seller' research the shop / site first and foremost ....... The keenest prises will usually be on the forums but of course you get no warranty but if its a well known member it is not going to be a fake.

Good luck... Great watch


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

Pob said:


> Good choice, dlallen.
> 
> If I wanted to avoid buying a fake though, I would start by avoiding e-bay!
> 
> ...


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

Hi pob - thanks but the links were deleted. Got a name for the sites instead so I can add to my list? Ty


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2011)

As above, I would avoid ebay full stop if you are new to buying watches 2nd hand. You are probably better off contributing here and getting over 50 posts and buying from someone here who you can trust.


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

That sounds like a good idea - thanks Robert - I've seen one online but in a London shop for Â£1,800 which sounds like a good deal (with standard strap). I'll want to get a racing leather perforated strap.

I just love the look of the watch and the heritage is amazing. Only other watches I like the look of do much are Rolex sea dweller (but just can't see myself wearing a rolex) and a tag Carrera (but not really classic just trendy)

Hope I get 50 posts...

Suppose I'd just like to know what a fair value is for a speedy from a shop, second hand

Ty all


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## Defender (Jan 27, 2009)

dlallen1968 said:


> Hi all, I wonder if anyone can help. I'm new to watch collecting, not exactly rich, but finally decided on the watch I want - a used omega speedmaster professional (moon watch). Probably looking for a manual one. I'll prob buy a leather strap, but stainless steel one will be good to start.
> 
> My difficulty is a) how do I avoid buying a fake - I've looked on eBay and I just don't trust some of the watches there, plus i'm cynical B) what would be a fair price in people's opinion (my only other watches were Â£100, so I don't want to get this wrong, as I'd like to start collecting, and have a few nice watches)
> 
> ...


Hi there, welcome to the forum and the world of watch collecting.

You can't really get a better start than a Speedmaster, yes I'm biased as I have 3, but none of them are true 'Moon' watches, I would post a picture, but I'm at work and the I.T. police won't let me!

As others have said, you'll be safer buying from the forum, or a retail trader, my first Speedmaster came from Austin Kaye, of The Strand, in London.

I've bought from ebay, but you really need know what you are looking at and the buyers history is also important.

Take your time, there are plenty around and the right one will come along in time.

Try not to get side tacked, that's when it can get out of control!!

ATB,

Defender :astro:.


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

Thanks defender, much appreciated. I'm not in any hurry, price and authenticity are important, so I'll just surf until the right one comes up - might be tempted by the bay as long as they have receipt of purchase I guess. Am I correct in saying that papers & box etc don't mean a great deal these days as people can just buy boxes and pair with a watch?

I'm thinking Â£1200 to Â£1500 might be about right, as new ones are only just over Â£2000 I think which is always an option.

Interested to see yours when IT police not around, as I've been studying them a little recently

Dave


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

New ones are Â£2800 .....

Boxes you can buy, papers you cant.....


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

Ahh thanks Jason, very helpful. Â£2800 is a bit steep I suppose, so I shall continue to search. Found a decent looking one on the web from a shop in London - official watches I think it was. They were selling it for Â£1800.

When you say papers, do you mean the little card with serial number on it? ie should that serial number match a number on the watch somewhere? (and apologies for my total ignorance - I'll get there)

Happy Xmas as well


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

Trying to upload photo of the one in the shop in London Â£1895 plus the site says make an offer - seems a bit steep, so might hold out for bay between Â£1,200 and Â£1,500

Especially as I'll need racing leather strap and buckle thingy


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

This one went for Â£1270 on eBay which sounds a great price - it even had papers and goldsmiths receipt - just wish I'd got on this forum before so i could have been less ignorant and bid for it


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## MerlinShepherd (Sep 18, 2011)

If you're looking vintage, then a MARK II might be cheaper than a Moon. They made more I believe and are every bit as good!

Here's mine.... it's a new acquisition and I've never been happier with a watch in my life.


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

And finally here's one in a shop in Sheffield for Â£1800, which seems to be the going rate unless I get lucky on eBay. This one looks in pretty good nick.

Anyway best get set for lunch. Good day all.


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

Hi merlin, lovely looking watch. I'm just not so sure I'm so keen on the steel casing around the face (probably a technical term for it). It's just a little more vintage shall I say than i'm looking for. I was after something quite contemporary - I love the new tag carreras to look at (I'm at in between young to mid age ha) but the more I've read I've found that tags and RWs which I did like are a little chavvy, but an omega looks sheer class plus with the moon watch on a leather strap it looks similar to carrera but timeless and with heritage - that's my justification for spending Â£2k on a watch anyway ha


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

Look how similar a carrera is










Almost looks like tag carrera copied omega to my untrained eye


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## Gottohavearolex (Dec 14, 2011)

Yeah very similar except different movements and the tag is automatic where as the speed master is manual wind there's lots of watches similar I do love the speed master and have an original moon watch , missing a pusher though


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

I just found this one on bay for Â£1250 - that's a buy it now price, and are open to offers.

Quick question, does the international warranty stand for anything as far as proof of authenticity?


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

Gotto - what's the difference between this one:










ie 'reduced' and the others. I see the ad calls itself a moonwatch, it does have hesalite crystal which I like as a talking point but no rear engraving saying moon watch which I like

I must admit I do like the colour of the hands though - are these traditionally cheaper than 'non reduced model' ?


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## Defender (Jan 27, 2009)

dlallen1968 said:


> Thanks defender, much appreciated. I'm not in any hurry, price and authenticity are important, so I'll just surf until the right one comes up - might be tempted by the bay as long as they have receipt of purchase I guess. Am I correct in saying that papers & box etc don't mean a great deal these days as people can just buy boxes and pair with a watch?
> 
> I'm thinking Â£1200 to Â£1500 might be about right, as new ones are only just over Â£2000 I think which is always an option.
> 
> ...


No problem at all Dave, I would hate anybody to be buy/be sold a 'pup', there's more than enough help/information available from the members here for you to call upon, so by joining up and asking you've done the right thing.

You should be able to get a very nice example for Â£1200 - Â£1500, box and papers are nice and for some people essential, but they don't bother me too much, owning the watch is what I like.

The late Chuck Maddox's site, www.chronomaddox.com has loads of info on Speedmasters and is well worth a visit.

I'll post up a picture of my Speedmaster trio and some back ground info on them when I get home from work later this evening, as the I.T. police never sleep!

ATB,

Ivon.


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## Defender (Jan 27, 2009)

Right, back home from work, a nice easy day thankfully!

So here's my Speedmaster trio as promised:-










They are from left to right,

1969 ST145.014 MkII Cal 861 manual movement, a previous owner has polished out the sunburst finish on the upper case, has the original Omega bracelet. Always wanted a MKII, had it for about 5-6 years, runs well and keeps good time.

1976 ST176.0016 (not a 176.0015!) Cal 1045 automatic movement. Day/date with 24hr indicator. Had this one a bit longer than the MKII, about 6-7 years. Fitted with an Omega Shark mesh bracelet. Had a full overhaul and service at STS earlier this year, refinished starburst effect on the case, original dial as new ones aren't available from Omega anymore. New hands, pushers and several other parts. Runs very well and keeps good time, as it should after that little lot!

1965 ST105.003 Cal 321 manual movement, also known as the 'Ed White' who was the NASA astronaut to space walk from the Gemini 4. Had this since one since May 1978, bought from Austin Kaye for Â£85, spent much more than that on it over the years! Currently has a later 'Professional' dial, but I have a new non Professional dial for it.

ATB,

Ivon.


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

dlallen1968 said:


> Gotto - what's the difference between this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is not the Moon watch ....

Its not a bad watch by any means, automatic, smaller cheaper by some margin..... But its not the classic Speedy Pro.....


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## Piemuncher23 (Jun 3, 2012)

I am no expert on this subject, however a speedmaster pro will more than likely be my next watch. As far as chronographs go I don't think theres that much out there better looking than a speedy.

Have a look round the web - there are loads of articles written about this watch, but from what I understand so far there are 3 different movements to look out for - 321 (pre 1968 the origonal) 861 (1689 onwards) ans 1861 (the most modern). I found an artice once somewhere saying that the 1861 had a little plasic part, which personally has no appeal for me and in the photots looks a little less durable, and for that reason and than alone I will be going for an 861 or 321 movement, but as the 321 is a lot more expensive it looks like it'll be the 861.

As with any watch model which has been in production for a long time there are obviously very subtle differences to look out for. I'm no "rare breed" hunter so any one will do me, but i'm sure somone will be in touch very soon to point out some of the less obvious things to look out for.

Also I called into Omega in Bond Street about 5 months ago and asked about servicing costs. I was quoted IRO Â£300 for the full works. Not sure what that includes, but has to be worth bearing in mind if you're in the second hand market. When I last had one of my Rolexs serviced it came back like, no, in fact better than new, so in theory if you buy cheaply and budget in another Â£300 on top for a once over at Omega you'll end up with something just as good as new complete with a nice set of paperwork form Omega.

I hope that helps with your purchase.

Paul.


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

Fantastic looking watches. I especially like the 1965 model. I prefer the shape to the Mark II models. I will buy one of these at some point - Â£85 was a fantastic deal. Well worth showcasing these watches away from the IT police. Many thanks (am actually looking at a Omega deville seamaster 565 cal, 166.020 model at the moment - getting addicted to omegas and I havent even bought one yet!) dave



Defender said:


> Right, back home from work, a nice easy day thankfully!
> 
> So here's my Speedmaster trio as promised:-
> 
> ...


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

Piemuncher22 said:


> I am no expert on this subject, however a speedmaster pro will more than likely be my next watch. As far as chronographs go I don't think theres that much out there better looking than a speedy.
> 
> Have a look round the web - there are loads of articles written about this watch, but from what I understand so far there are 3 different movements to look out for - 321 (pre 1968 the origonal) 861 (1689 onwards) ans 1861 (the most modern). I found an artice once somewhere saying that the 1861 had a little plasic part, which personally has no appeal for me and in the photots looks a little less durable, and for that reason and than alone I will be going for an 861 or 321 movement, but as the 321 is a lot more expensive it looks like it'll be the 861.
> 
> ...


Many thanks Paul. Very interesting. I doubt I will go for the 321 for the same reason, and will likely be an 861 - I prefer the slightly more modern ones anyway. Great advicde thanks. I'll post a pic when I finally buy one. Dave


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

dlallen1968 said:


> Piemuncher22 said:
> 
> 
> > I am no expert on this subject, however a speedmaster pro will more than likely be my next watch. As far as chronographs go I don't think theres that much out there better looking than a speedy.
> ...


Hi Paul,

Yes just been reading up about cal 321 on the omega forum - spectacular but indeed pricey. Heres the link in case you havent see it:

http://omegaforums.net/threads/cal-321-speedmaster-buying.37/


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

dlallen1968 said:


> Fantastic looking watches. I especially like the 1965 model. I prefer the shape to the Mark II models. I will buy one of these at some point - Â£85 was a fantastic deal. Well worth showcasing these watches away from the IT police. Many thanks (am actually looking at a Omega deville seamaster 565 cal, 166.020 model at the moment - getting addicted to omegas and I havent even bought one yet!) dave
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just found out quite how rare a 321 cal is! wow remarkable watch. I wont be able to afford a cal 321 though


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

Defender said:


> Right, back home from work, a nice easy day thankfully!
> 
> So here's my Speedmaster trio as promised:-
> 
> ...


Ivon,

Shouldn't the hands on the cal 321 105.003 be white? (must be my ignorance but was reading all about it)


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

They used to be white, the discolouration to brown / cream comes when the Tritium in the lumed parts of the hands ages.... Its known as 'patina' and looks lovely on the right watch..... A lot of collectors actively look for this colour to the dial plots and hands...


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

jasonm said:


> They used to be white, the discolouration to brown / cream comes when the Tritium in the lumed parts of the hands ages.... Its known as 'patina' and looks lovely on the right watch..... A lot of collectors actively look for this colour to the dial plots and hands...


Thanks Jason - very interesting. I've been on a crash course scouring the web for info - I now not only want a speedmaster but a cal 321 one having read about the history... in for a penny in for a pound. This is an excellent article (learnt a lot)

http://www.chronomaddox.com/pay.html


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

dlallen1968 said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> > They used to be white, the discolouration to brown / cream comes when the Tritium in the lumed parts of the hands ages.... Its known as 'patina' and looks lovely on the right watch..... A lot of collectors actively look for this colour to the dial plots and hands...
> ...


Jason,

I've just found this one:

From what I've read on that chronomaddox this is very rare, isn't it? A 105.012 cal 321, which if I'm correct is just before the actual moonwalk or maybe even the model used. Am getting very interested in watch heritage now.

Dave


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## Defender (Jan 27, 2009)

dlallen1968 said:


> Ivon,
> 
> Shouldn't the hands on the cal 321 105.003 be white? (must be my ignorance but was reading all about it)


Very possibly, they may well have been replaced at some point, at the same time as the dial perhaps, it doesn't bother me really, we been together a long time







!

ATB,

Ivon.


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

Defender said:


> dlallen1968 said:
> 
> 
> > Ivon,
> ...


Hi Ivon,

Nope, Jason just answered it 'They used to be white, the discolouration to brown / cream comes when the Tritium in the lumed parts of the hands ages.... Its known as 'patina' and looks lovely on the right watch..... A lot of collectors actively look for this colour to the dial plots and hands...

So looks as if your watch is even better!

Dave


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## Omega Steve 67 (Nov 8, 2011)

Jason,

I've just found this one:

From what I've read on that chronomaddox this is very rare, isn't it? A 105.012 cal 321, which if I'm correct is just before the actual moonwalk or maybe even the model used. Am getting very interested in watch heritage now.

Dave


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

Omega Steve 67 said:


> Jason,
> 
> I've just found this one:
> 
> ...


That seems a very good (low) price for a 321cal. ?.

I've seen these more in the region of Â£5000 !!.

Just be careful.


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

dlallen1968 said:


> Omega Steve 67 said:
> 
> 
> > Jason,
> ...


Thanks Steve - I've spent about 15 hours researching them today, and i would only buy the watch in person at the store. My research has given me a lot of pointers but I must admit to being very nervous as I'm not an experienced watchbuyer and so any tips on how to be 'careful', key points to look for etc much appreciated. Think I'll go see the watch on Friday. TY Dave


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## Omega Steve 67 (Nov 8, 2011)

If you are viewing at a jewellers first thing i'd ask for is to have him pop the back off, so you can check the movement. I'd also ask about box, spare links also the warranty cards. They may be out of date but still nice to have.


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## frogspawn (Jun 20, 2008)

Omega Steve 67 said:


> Jason,
> 
> I've just found this one:
> 
> ...


That seems a very good (low) price for a 321cal. ?.

I've seen these more in the region of Â£5000 !!.

Just be careful.


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

frogspawn said:


> Omega Steve 67 said:
> 
> 
> > Jason,
> ...


Wrong bezel - should be dot over the 90?

David


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## Piemuncher23 (Jun 3, 2012)

If you want to be sure, REALLY sure, and you want a genuine, totally original 321 the try the omega boutique at the North end of Burlington Arcade. I've been in there a few times and they have some exquisite speedmasters. You will pay through the nose for it however!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

Ahh yes, one of many sites I've had a look at - they don't show prices on their website which is scarey! I'll pop in next time I'm in London to study an authentic one... Think I'll just try to gain as much knowledge as poss on them in next few months til I'm confident to take the plunge for a good price - I'm no Michael shumacker (well not his cash). Ta Dave


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## frogspawn (Jun 20, 2008)

Am led to believe parts for the 321 movement are not common - why not go for something like this










1969 transitional, should be around for less than Â£2000.

David


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## dlallen1968 (Dec 1, 2011)

Hi all, many thanks for all your help. I have now spent so long researching, and can spot pretty much any problems.

I'm now very close to buying my first speedmaster. Would one of you mind awfully in checking out this one that I'm about to bid on please. It looks authentic, good condition and just serviced. If it gets the ok I'm going to bid for it and take a drive to see it in person

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150729638335?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_19654wt_1371




























Many thanks in advance

Dave

---

I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=52.646714,-1.200401


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## simons194 (Jan 1, 2012)

dlallen1968 said:


> Hi all, many thanks for all your help. I have now spent so long researching, and can spot pretty much any problems.
> 
> I'm now very close to buying my first speedmaster. Would one of you mind awfully in checking out this one that I'm about to bid on please. It looks authentic, good condition and just serviced. If it gets the ok I'm going to bid for it and take a drive to see it in person
> 
> ...


I wouldnt worry about it being an ebay seller some people have a real issue with it but I think a bad experience spreads fast just go on as you are and exercise common sense and caution , if you can conatc the seller and take a trip to see it if possible you will soon tell if its iffy weight , finish etc.Good luck and let us know if you win it .....

Regards

Simon


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## dadecc2 (Jan 13, 2012)

I am a new member and also getting close to buying my first Speedmaster. I am following this conversation very carefully - there is great information being provided!


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