# Air Rifle Licence Scotland!



## Raptor (May 1, 2010)

Just heard today that if you live in Scotland and have a air rifle you will need a licence for it from 1st Jan 2017, pretty much a firearms licence.

I don't currently own a air rifle myself but this sounds a tad on the nanny state side.


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## Guest (May 25, 2016)

Raptor said:


> Just heard today that if you live in Scotland and have a air rifle you will need a licence for it from 1st Jan 2017, pretty much a firearms licence.
> 
> I don't currently own a air rifle myself but this sounds a tad on the nanny state side.


 i just made a similar post, thats a coincidence..........you spying on me ? :angry:


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## Raptor (May 1, 2010)

Bruce said:


> i just made a similar post, thats a coincidence..........you spying on me ? :angry:


 No, honest

ps, if a mod wants to combine the posts it's fine by me, stick mine into Bruce's , and just realised your a mod Bruce so feel free


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## Guest (May 25, 2016)

Raptor said:


> No, honest
> 
> ps, if a mod wants to combine the posts it's fine by me, stick mine into Bruce's


 i am a mod :watch: ................ :laugh:

http://xflive.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?/topic/102701-air-rifle-and-air-pistols/&do=embed&embedComment=1059347&embedDo=findComment#comment-1059347


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## Raptor (May 1, 2010)

Bruce said:


> i am a mod :watch: ................ :laugh:


 See above edit.

How come I can't use those smiley things, whenever I add them it tells me I can't post with them in the message body?


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## Guest (May 25, 2016)

Raptor said:


> How come I can't use those smiley things, whenever I add them it tells me I can't post with them in the message body?


 its because you dont own an air rifle :yes:

seriously no idea, you using a windows PC?


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## Raptor (May 1, 2010)

Bruce said:


> its because you dont own an air rifle :yes:
> 
> seriously no idea, you using a windows PC?


 Lol, no iPad , it has loads of them on the keyboard now after a update, just can't use them here

i had a air rifle when I was a kid, dad bought it for me for Xmas when I was 10, it was a ASI Sniper .22 with a 4x20 scope.


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## Guest (May 25, 2016)

Raptor said:


> Lol, no iPad , it has loads of them on the keyboard now after a update, just can't use them here
> 
> i had a air rifle when I was a kid, dad bought it for me for Xmas when I was 10, it was a ASI Sniper .22 with a 4x20 scope.


 i bought these for my daughter, she wanted to try target shooting

a kid was shot in the head and died in 2012 i think and that started the gun carry on, what they dont realise though is the nutters that would shoot a kid dont care about licenses and will keep their guns under the bed so it will make no difference at all IMO


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## Raptor (May 1, 2010)

Bruce said:


> i bought these for my daughter, she wanted to try target shooting
> 
> a kid was shot in the head and died in 2012 i think and that started the gun carry on, what they dont realise though is the nutters that would shoot a kid dont care about licenses and will keep their guns under the bed so it will make no difference at all IMO


 Totally agree, it's ridiculous really and all it does is punish honest sensible people.


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## Guest (May 25, 2016)

Raptor said:


> Totally agree, it's ridiculous really and all it does is punish honest sensible people.


 its like we are guilty before we have done anything, horrible feeling, i guess it will be bows and arrows next............got some of them too :sadwalk:


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## robredz (May 18, 2016)

Raptor said:


> Lol, no iPad , it has loads of them on the keyboard now after a update, just can't use them here
> 
> i had a air rifle when I was a kid, dad bought it for me for Xmas when I was 10, it was a ASI Sniper .22 with a 4x20 scope.
> 
> had one of those myself, as a child, have a Chinese B3 underlever now, great for rabbiting and rats.





Bruce said:


> its like we are guilty before we have done anything, horrible feeling, i guess it will be bows and arrows next............got some of them too :sadwalk:


 Have a pistol crossbow, the metal one and a Barnett Wildcat, again both good for rabbiting and vermin control living in a rural area.


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## Guest (May 25, 2016)

robredz said:


> Have a pistol crossbow, the metal one and a Barnett Wildcat, again both good for rabbiting and vermin control living in a rural area.


 i doubt this will ever happen in england


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## robredz (May 18, 2016)

The Scottish Government are a hectoring nanny state, I would hate to live in Fishy Sturgeons Jockistan.


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## Guest (May 25, 2016)

robredz said:


> The Scottish Government are a hectoring nanny state, I would hate to live in Fishy Sturgeons Jockistan.


 i have to say i am an SNP supporter, but i dont agree with all the policies and ideas :thumbdown:


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## robredz (May 18, 2016)

Bruce said:


> i have to say i am an SNP supporter, but i dont agree with all the policies and ideas :thumbdown:


 Perhaps it's time for the grassroots supporters to dethrone the "More Equal Animals" and change tack.


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## Guest (May 25, 2016)

robredz said:


> Perhaps it's time for the grassroots supporters to dethrone the "More Equal Animals" and change tack.


 personally i think all minds are pretty much made up on what's about to happen...i couldnt call it though


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## xellos99 (Dec 17, 2015)

The shooting laws are strict anyway. You have to really watch what your doing these days, so much so that all the enjoyment has been sapped out of shooting. I gave it up because it is not worth it, a legal limit air rifle is dangerous yes but its not even on the same ball park as a crossbow or shotgun


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## robredz (May 18, 2016)

xellos99 said:


> The shooting laws are strict anyway. You have to really watch what your doing these days, so much so that all the enjoyment has been sapped out of shooting. I gave it up because it is not worth it, a legal limit air rifle is dangerous yes but its not even on the same ball park as a crossbow or shotgun


 You have to be responsible, and if you are working with a Famer, and shooting on his land with permissions, make sure no shots go outside his boundaries.


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## Guest (May 25, 2016)

xellos99 said:


> The shooting laws are strict anyway. You have to really watch what your doing these days, so much so that all the enjoyment has been sapped out of shooting. I gave it up because it is not worth it, a legal limit air rifle is dangerous yes but its not even on the same ball park as a crossbow or shotgun


 a pool cue is just as dangerous, even a biro can be a deadly weapon if used right


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## robredz (May 18, 2016)

Bruce said:


> a pool cue is just as dangerous, even a biro can be a deadly weapon if used right


 Also using that logic Scottish Government could ban pens, pencils, and tablet stylii as they are dangerous, where does this Common Purpose muppetry end?


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Bruce said:


> a pool cue is just as dangerous, even a biro can be a deadly weapon if used right


 Many British soldiers are trained in improvised weapon usage, as I'm sure many terrorists are. :wink:


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## xellos99 (Dec 17, 2015)

Bruce said:


> a pool cue is just as dangerous, even a biro can be a deadly weapon if used right





Stan said:


> Many British soldier are trained in improvised weapon usage, as I'm sure many terrorists are. :wink:


 I can walk in a shop in the morning and pick up a gas can powered nail gun and cordless circular saw. Certainly can be deadly weapons but nobody would bat an eye lid because firearm is not in the product description. Its all about the firearm classification, no matter how weak a gun it is still a gun in the eyes of the law and i can only see the laws becoming more strict in the future.


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## Jdp (Mar 5, 2016)

I'm glad we don't have to deal with such nonsense yet. It's coming though.

For now, we can still have fun. Here's my boy when he was about 15 years old.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

xellos99 said:


> I can walk in a shop in the morning and pick up a gas can powered nail gun and cordless circular saw. Certainly can be deadly weapons but nobody would bat an eye lid because firearm is not in the product description. Its all about the firearm classification, no matter how weak a gun it is still a gun in the eyes of the law and i can only see the laws becoming more strict in the future.


 I suspect that weapons that can do harm at "long range" will become more controlled.


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

I can see I`m going to be way out of step with everyone else here but I support the the Scottish government`s plan to introduce licences for air guns. Personally I don` think they are going far enough, imo all private gun ownership should be banned.


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## Guest (May 26, 2016)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> I can see I`m going to be way out of step with everyone else here but I support the the Scottish government`s plan to introduce licences for air guns. Personally I don` think they are going far enough, imo all private gun ownership should be banned.


 i actually agree with you, although i its a shame we cant be trusted with a low powered air guns for target shooting

farmers pretty much have the right to have shotguns obviously with conditions, but i hate the thought of Fox's getting shot because they are

inconvenient.........they were here first after all and i hate this Grouse shooting thing :thumbdown:

the main issue i have with the new licensing laws is it wont take the guns out of the hands of criminals and idiots which is what they should really be trying to do.

its a knee **** political reaction to a tragedy/murder that was committed in 2012 by a brainless thug

i could hide my rifle etc in the loft or even under my bed and nobody would be any the wiser and where i live i could use it in my garden without being seen which is exactly what a lot are going to do, i wont , i couldn't be bothered...........


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

Thinking of alternative weapons, remember at school taking the ink tube and writing tip out of a see through biro and having a pocket full of rice.

RIce wars across the classroom and all that could be heard was a slight puff of air as tube rice pellet whizzed away. Brilliant.


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

Bruce said:


> I actually agree with you, although i its a shame we cant be trusted with a low powered air guns for target shooting


 Are you still allowed to own airsoft guns? These are low (ish) powered that fire small round pellets. The main use is for airsoft games which are a bit like paintball but without the mess.

Anyone over the age of 18 can buy one so long as it is painted in a bright colour. You can buy ones that look realistic but you need proof that you are a member of a re-enactment group or are a member of an airsoft site and play on a regular basis. They brought in the law about coloured guns because these fell outside of the existing `firearms' and `airgun' regulations (they are considered toys) and they were worried that being able to buy realistic looking guns would mean they would be used in crimes.

They are fine for a bit of target shooting.


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## Guest (May 26, 2016)

richy176 said:


> Are you still allowed to own airsoft guns? These are low (ish) powered that fire small round pellets. The main use is for airsoft games which are a bit like paintball but without the mess.
> 
> Anyone over the age of 18 can buy one so long as it is painted in a bright colour. You can buy ones that look realistic but you need proof that you are a member of a re-enactment group or are a member of an airsoft site and play on a regular basis. They brought in the law about coloured guns because these fell outside of the existing `firearms' and `airgun' regulations (they are considered toys) and they were worried that being able to buy realistic looking guns would mean they would be used in crimes.
> 
> They are fine for a bit of target shooting.


 i really dont know, its all a bit vague, i phoned Strathclyde Police last week about it all as i dont want caught out and the licensing officer was very vague about a lot of things, for instance: i said to him.. if the license required is the same rules as a fire arms certificate [ which i used to have ] does that mean someone with an airgun license can now have a full power one IE 50 or 60 FT/LB's ? and after a short pause he said: I think so :swoon:


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## Guest (May 26, 2016)

this may be of interest

*
Airgun licensing in Scotland - frequently asked questions
*










*1. How easy is it going to be to get an airgun licence?*
The simple answer is that it is going to be as easy or as difficult as it is just now to get a firearm certificate. The standards expected for an air weapon certificate will be similar to those for a firearm certificate although we have been told that the process will be "light touch".

It may in fact be easier to get a shotgun certificate than an air weapon certificate. If you have ever thought about getting either a firearm or shotgun certificate now is the time to apply, or seek more information from BASC Scotland.

*2. I have an air rifle - do I need to get a certificate now?*
No, the requirement to have the certificate doesn't come into effect until 31st December 2016, but from July 1st 2016, you will be able to apply to the police for one. If you have applied for an air weapon certificate before the 31st December 2016 you will be able to continue to hold your air weapon even if the certificate has not yet been issued. Click on the following link to find official information on the licensing scheme, application forms and updates - http://airweapon.scot/

*3. How much will an airgun certificate cost and how long will it last for?*
We still do not know how much it will cost but the Scottish Government is aware that if it is much more expensive than a firearm certificate or shotgun certificate (£88.00 and £79.50) airgun shooters will go for a firearm or shotgun certificate instead. We have been told that the cost will be less than that of a firearms or shotgun certificate. The air weapon +certificate will last for five years, unless you are between 14 and 18 when you apply, in which case it will last until you become 18.

*4. What information will I need to give to get an airgun certificate?*
The information you will need to supply will be almost identical to that supplied when completing an application for a firearm certificate. This will be personal information, such as date and place of birth. There will also be a need to provide "good reason" for possession of airguns and this would include target shooting, pest control or collecting. You will also be required to allow the police access to your GP.

*5. Will the police visit me and will I need to show them my airguns?*
The intention would be for the police to "visit an applicant's home or other places where the weapons may be used or stored". However, Scottish Government believes that such checks should only be required in a small number of cases.

*6. I live in Scotland and already have a shotgun certificate/firearm certificate. Do I need to apply for another certificate for my air rifle?*
Yes. However, those with an existing certificate would not need to apply for an airgun certificate until their existing certificate/s expires. When renewing your existing shotgun or firearm certificate you would then be expected to apply for an airgun certificate.
BASC tried to amend the Bill to exempt existing certificate holders but this was not accepted.

*7. I use my air rifle to control the rabbits in my garden. Will that be OK in the future?*
Pest control will be recognised as a "good reason" for having an airgun certificate. However, the Scottish Government have expressed concern about "plinking" in gardens or other urban or highly populated settings. It could well be that pest control in a large garden is acceptable but not plinking in a small garden.

*8. I am a member of an airgun club. Will that be OK in the future?*
Membership of an "approved" airgun club would be seen as good reason. Your club would have to apply for formal approval from the Chief Constable to become an "approved air weapon club". The details of this process have still to be published.

*9. I collect old British air rifles and pistols as a hobby, but rarely shoot them. Will I need to get a certificate?*
Yes, you will need to apply for a certificate to allow you to possess these air weapons. The licence might be conditioned to allow possession only, and if this should be the case you would not be able to fire them.

*10. I only use my air rifle for the occasional bit of plinking in my small garden. Will I need a certificate and will I get a certificate?*
Yes, you will need a certificate but you may not get one.

BASC realises that the majority of people who have airguns in Scotland probably have them for "plinking", and that this is carried out safely. However, the Policy Memorandum states "The Scottish Government accepts that this (plinking) has been a common pastime for many, and is seen as an "entry level" for many young shooters who go on to take up the sport on a more regular, organised basis. However, the Scottish Government has a wider responsibility to the community to reduce alarm and protect public safety. Against this background, Ministers do not believe that target shooting in such an environment (gardens or other urban of highly populated settings) should generally be acceptable unless the applicant can satisfy the Chief Constable as to the safety and other arrangements in place to ensure that shooting can be carried out without risk to the public."

It is clear that it may be difficult to use plinking as your good reason to get a certificate. However, this is just guidance and is not referred to in the Act itself.

*11. My daughter is only 12 but really enjoys shooting at targets in the garden with me. If I get a certificate can we continue to do this?*
If you get an airgun certificate that allows you to shoot targets in your garden you will be able to continue supervising your daughter while she shoots.

*12. What would happen if I had an air rifle or pistol but did not have an airgun certificate when the law comes into force on the 1st January 2017?*
If you were found to be in possession of an air rifle or air pistol without a certificate then you could face imprisonment for up to two years, or a fine, or both.

*13. Do I need to get a certificate for each of my air rifles - I have 3?*
The intention is that one certificate will cover any number of air rifles and air pistols.

*14. I am 16 and shoot rabbits on the farm with my dad's air rifle. Do I need to get a certificate or would I be covered by my dad's air weapon certificate?*
You would be covered by your father's air weapon certificate but only if he accompanied and supervised you at all times. If you wished to continue shooting on your own you would need to have your own certificate. BASC successfully amended the Bill to ensure that all of those between 14 and 18 could continue to shoot live quarry.

*15. I live in England but come up to Scotland to shoot the rabbits on my uncle's farm with my shotgun, .22 rimfire rifle and my air rifle. Can I still come to Scotland and bring my guns with me?*
When the legislation is in place (1st January 2017) you will still be able to come to Scotland with your shotgun, your .22 rimfire rifle and your air rifle up to the date when your shotgun certificate or firearm certificate is renewed. After this date you will need to apply for a visitors permit for your air rifle, but not for your shot gun or .22 rimfire rifle.

*16. I live in Scotland, and I was planning to buy an air rifle at the Scottish Game Fair in July 2016. Should I wait until I have an air weapon certificate?*
No, we would advise you to go ahead and buy the air rifle, as long as you are reasonably confident that you will qualify for a certificate in the future. If you are sure of this you could also consider applying for a firearm certificate just now. This would then allow you buy (for example) a .22 rim fire rifle and would give you authority to hold your air rifle until the firearm certificate lapsed in five years' time. Advice on applying for a firearm or shotgun certificate is available from BASC.

*17. Since I will need to get a certificate for my air rifle before the 1st January 2017 should I "move up" and apply for a firearm certificate just now?*
This would be sensible. If you have good reason to have a Section 1 firearm, such as a .22 rim fire rifle, you could apply for a firearm certificate. Your air rifle would also be covered by your firearm certificate up until the date of its renewal.

*18. What has BASC done to try to prevent this?*
BASC has lobbied against the introduction of this legislation for the past decade. We presented evidence against the devolution of firearms legislation to the Scotland Bill Committee in 2011 and have continued to highlight the fact that education and enforcement of the existing legislation has led to a 75% reduction in air weapon offences in the past six years. We have also presented evidence to the Public Petitions Committee. As a member of the Scottish Firearms Consultative Panel we also advised Scottish Government on many problems that this proposed legislation would create. We have used both television and radio to highlight these problems. Most recently we presented written and oral evidence to the Local Government and Regeneration Committee and worked with a member of that Committee to make important amendments.

*19. I am not a member of BASC. Would it help me if I joined as an airgun member?*
There are many benefits to airgunners through BASC membership, including public liability insurance. In addition, you would be putting your voice behind the country's largest and most effective shooting organisation.

*20. My father has an old air rifle in his attic. He never uses it but does not want to get rid of it. Does he need a certificate and will he get one?*
He would need a certificate; otherwise he would be committing an offence. Whether he would be able to pass the good reason test for being granted a certificate is another matter.

*21. I have a few convictions for breach of the peace and one for drink driving. I have never been to prison but am worried that I may not get a certificate if I applied.*
The Chief Constable would only grant an air weapons certificate if he was satisfied that a person could possess an air weapon "without danger to the public safety or to the peace". Each application would be taken on its individual merits but previous convictions could lead to the application being refused. If an air weapon certificate application is refused the applicant would not have the fee returned.

*22. My shotgun certificate was revoked 5 years ago and since then I have really got into air rifle shooting. Will the revocation affect an application for an air gun certificate?*
Again, a previous revocation might affect an application for an air weapon certificate. After five years this may not be critical, especially if you have not come to the attention of the police in that period.

*23. Is it not a bit daft that in the coming years you may not be able to buy an air rifle in Scotland without showing your certificate, but could go to Carlisle or Newcastle and buy one there?*
That is one of the problems with this proposed legislation - it will have very little impact on air weapon availability in Scotland. Only the law-abiding and responsible shooters will be affected.

*24. What is an approved air weapons club - I do not know of any in my area?*
Currently, there are no approved air weapon clubs in Scotland. Existing clubs and new clubs will have to apply for approval when the criteria are established.

*25. If I have to sell or dispose of my airguns, will there be any compensation for my losses?*
Sadly, there are no provisions for compensation in the Act. If you must dispose of your guns, sale to a legitimate club, Registered Firearms Dealer or certificate holder would be the best way. Police Scotland will also be running a campaign to allow people to hand in any unwanted air weapons before licensing takes effect - 1st January 2017.


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

What a crock of :bullshitter:


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## Guest (May 26, 2016)

hughlle said:


> What a crock of :bullshitter:


 i like the bit where you could be turned down but you lose the fee :laugh:


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

hughlle said:


> What a crock of :bullshitter:


 I can understand what they are trying to achieve but it also illustrates how difficult it is to introduce a law which will achieve the aims.

Maybe we need a law for political parties whereby they have to produce a detailed manifesto setting out what they will do if elected - tax rates, spending etc etc. Then, if they want to do something different they have to hold a referendum to have the manifesto changes approved. We could call this new system `New Democracy'


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## Guest (May 26, 2016)

richy176 said:


> I can understand what they are trying to achieve but it also illustrates how difficult it is to introduce a law which will achieve the aims.
> 
> Maybe we need a law for political parties whereby they have to produce a detailed manifesto setting out what they will do if elected - tax rates, spending etc etc. Then, if they want to do something different they have to hold a referendum to have the manifesto changes approved. We could call this new system `New Democracy'


 good idea, but you would need democracy to achieve it :biggrin:


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## Nobbythesheep (Apr 23, 2016)

The utter stupidity of governments generally never fails to amaze me.

I have two air rifles, both used for vermin control (rabbits). We eat the rabbits. Watching to see how Scotland progresses over salmon-farming myself. I imagine they'll make a pigs-ear of it, and allow the salmon-ranchers free rein to carry on polluting the coastlines.

God forbid Wales introduces such a stupid law, but it wouldn't surprise me.

The argument for banning all guns is stupid too. Guns will never be banned completely - the law-abiding will hand theirs in, the crims won't. :angry:


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## Guest (May 26, 2016)

"the law-abiding will hand theirs in, the crims won't"

my point exactly :yes:

the scottish government did a public consultation on this matter, 87% said they didnt think it was a good idea, but they go ahead anyway ! what was the point in the consultation if they are not going to listen? i am guessing they expected a better response


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Nobbythesheep said:


> The utter stupidity of governments generally never fails to amaze me.
> 
> I have two air rifles, both used for vermin control (rabbits). We eat the rabbits. Watching to see how Scotland progresses over salmon-farming myself. I imagine they'll make a pigs-ear of it, and allow the salmon-ranchers free rein to carry on polluting the coastlines.
> 
> ...


 With all due respect you could apply the same logic to any criminal activity eg stealing & murder can never be stopped so why bother legislating against them :wacko:


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

Bruce said:


> the scottish government did a public consultation on this matter, 87% said they didnt think it was a good idea, but they go ahead anyway ! what was the point in the consultation if they are not going to listen? i am guessing they expected a better response


 That is an easy one to answer Bruce. When they got the results of the consultation they realised that the people of Scotland had failed to understand the question. They also knew that if they asked again they would get a different answer and so there was no point in doing so - they just knew what you really wanted.

I blame this arrogant attitude of politicians on the Irish. They had a referendum to agree the Nice Treaty and another one to agree the Lisbon Treaty. Both rejected the treaties but when they had a second referendum for each one, the public did agree


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## Guest (May 26, 2016)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> With all due respect you could apply the same logic to any criminal activity eg stealing & murder can never be stopped so why bother legislating against them :wacko:


 the law already exists,it is illegal to use a fire arm in a public place, it is illegal to shoot a person, it is illegal to use one to damage personal or public property.....the laws are very clear so why do we need more legislation when the ones that dont follow the law still wont ?

you cant actually legislate against stealing and murder, to do that you would need to make it illegal for people to be an a position to carry out the crimes, all you can do is punish if and when crimes are committed, i have not committed a crime with my gun, why should i have to pay for a license when i already follow the existing laws? laws that will continue to be valid :yes:


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

I have never held a firearms licence but it seems to try and control who has a firearm and how/where it is kept. If you decide not to renew a firearms licence, do you have to prove to the police that you have disposed of your guns to someone who does have a licence?

That would only work if there is some sort of database that keeps a record of every gun bought against each licence otherwise it is a bit daft.

Thinking about it though, are the laws on driving any better? If you buy a car, no one asks to see your driving licence or checks that you have insurance (unless you take a finance deal). Same if you buy a caravan - no one checks if your licence covers you to tow one. When I insure a vehicle they ask how long I have held a licence but do not ask for a copy of it (can they check?). I know that for road tax they can check that the vehicle is insured and has a valid MOT if required but don't think they check for a driving licence.

Some laws may just be there to make to stop and think. You no longer need a licence to keep a dog but you do need one to keep a wife - just to make you stop and think if that is the right thing to do :laugh: :laugh:


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## Biker (Mar 9, 2013)

Scottish Nazi Party - Ineptitude in action!


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Biker said:


> Scottish Nazi Party - Ineptitude in action!


 A rather ott description, afaik the SNP have no plans to open concentration camps or start mass extermination of particular groups of people.


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## Nobbythesheep (Apr 23, 2016)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> With all due respect you could apply the same logic to any criminal activity eg stealing & murder can never be stopped so why bother legislating against them :wacko:


 The point I was making is that some people regard guns = crime/injury. They don't, any more than kitchen knives = crime/injury. Guns are an easy target for the self-righteous 'lets ban all the guns' lobby. Politicians know an easy populist move when they see it!

Ban murder by all means, stealing too - wait - they're already banned artytime: .

The thing is the laws are already in place, for gun crime and murder and stealing. The problem is inefficient policing, and lenient sentencing when transgressors are caught.

Take a look at the air gun crime in the UK. It's either kids messing around with guns which should be under lock and key, or it's some geezer bevvied up taling pot-shots from a window (as in the 2012 case I believe). Neither will be stopped or affected by licensing.


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## Guest (May 26, 2016)

Nobbythesheep said:


> The point I was making is that some people regard guns = crime/injury. They don't, any more than kitchen knives = crime/injury. Guns are an easy target for the self-righteous 'lets ban all the guns' lobby. Politicians know an easy populist move when they see it!
> 
> Ban murder by all means, stealing too - wait - they're already banned artytime: .
> 
> ...


 quite right :yes:


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## xellos99 (Dec 17, 2015)

richy176 said:


> I have never held a firearms licence but it seems to try and control who has a firearm and how/where it is kept. If you decide not to renew a firearms licence, do you have to prove to the police that you have disposed of your guns to someone who does have a licence?
> 
> That would only work if there is some sort of database that keeps a record of every gun bought against each licence otherwise it is a bit daft.
> 
> ...


 They know where every gun is. They know how many bullets you have, where you keep them, where you got them, how many sights/silencers you have. You have to justify every thing you have and have it approved. They want to know if you move house immediately, they will question you extensively and if you don't know the firearms act well they will catch you out. If there is a patch of land you want to shot on a firearms officer wants to go there with you and walk around it with the permission of the landowner ( most farmers hate police on there land so good luck with that ) and have detailed maps of the land ( more faf the farmers cant be bothered with ) then some more paperwork and approvals and what calibre you will use there and what you will shoot and if it is an appropriate calibre etc. I could go on all day but you get the picture, any ounce of enjoyment is stripped out of it and they can take back your licence if you put one foot wrong. Yes they have a database, the UK are like that.


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

Bruce said:


> the law already exists,it is illegal to use a fire arm in a public place, it is illegal to shoot a person, it is illegal to use one to damage personal or public property.....the laws are very clear so why do we need more legislation when the ones that dont follow the law still wont ?
> 
> you cant actually legislate against stealing and murder, to do that you would need to make it illegal for people to be an a position to carry out the crimes, all you can do is punish if and when crimes are committed, i have not committed a crime with my gun, why should i have to pay for a license when i already follow the existing laws? laws that will continue to be valid :yes:


 Exactly. We do not need a law banning stanley knives due to how they may murder murder everywhere, because we already have a law prohibiting murder. As you rightly say, how on earth would a new law change anything. It is in a criminals nature to obey the law, hence them being criminals. The current laws don't stop them doing as they feel is needed, how on earth would this change anything regarding criminal enterprise.

I'm sure that legal highs are now a thing of the past as well  No more young deaths expected.


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## Raptor (May 1, 2010)

The really funny thing about this is there is no clear way of applying for the "required" licence. Just been looking on the Police Scotland site and it's as clear as mud what you need to do.


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## Guest (May 28, 2016)

Raptor said:


> The really funny thing about this is there is no clear way of applying for the "required" licence. Just been looking on the Police Scotland site and it's as clear as mud what you need to do.


 it has not been organised yet, i am on their email list, they will let me know when i how to do it, but i cant be bothered :thumbdown:


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## Raptor (May 1, 2010)

Bruce said:


> it has not been organised yet, i am on their email list, they will let me know when i how to do it, but i cant be bothered :thumbdown:


 That's just what I mean, you have six months to get a licence that they can't even tell you how to apply for it nor how much it will cost, surely this should have been sorted before issuing a deadline!

I was toying with the idea of a rifle and maybe joining a target shooting club but probably not now, I shall maybe take up knife collecting until the nannies decide any blade longer than your little fingernail is far too deadly to be allowed to possess.


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## Guest (May 28, 2016)

Raptor said:


> That's just what I mean, you have six months to get a licence that they can't even tell you how to apply for it nor how much it will cost, surely this should have been sorted before issuing a deadline!
> 
> I was toying with the idea of a rifle and maybe joining a target shooting club but probably not now, I shall maybe take up knife collecting until the nannies decide any blade longer than your little fingernail is far too deadly to be allowed to possess.


 as yet you cant join a rifle club in scotland to gain a license as all clubs have to be accredited........at the moment NONE are :swoon:

i live beside a stream and there are rats that raid out compost heap, they dont bother us so we dont bother them, but that would be enough for me to get the license, but its going to cost up to £80...........i really cant be bothered and i wont pay either

i collect and make knifes, i am just waiting to be told we need to use plastic spoons to eat


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Bruce said:


> i collect and make knifes, i am just waiting to be told we need to use plastic spoons to eat


 Think of the environment Bruce! It must be wooden spoons, fashioned from quickly renewable softwood. :yes:

Later,
William


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

i am amazed to hear of this air gun ban. has any other country have this? i don't agree that its a "natural progresion" to ban all wepons. perhaps military training for all would help. you can't blame some people who are afraid of guns, but they depend on people with guns for protection.


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

Bruce said:


> i collect and make knifes, i am just waiting to be told we need to use plastic spoons to eat


 You do if you fly anywhere - plastic cutlery only once you pass through security.


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## Raptor (May 1, 2010)

richy176 said:


> You do if you fly anywhere - plastic cutlery only once you pass through security.


 Not true actually, I used to clean aircraft and Continental Airlines supplied their first class passengers with stainless steel knives and forks, I am sure a lot of airlines still use stainless cutlery in their higher class seats.


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

Raptor said:


> Not true actually, I used to clean aircraft and Continental Airlines supplied their first class passengers with stainless steel knives and forks, I am sure a lot of airlines still use stainless cutlery in their higher class seats.


 But you can trust those passengers as they can afford decent watches :laugh: :laugh:


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

ah; air travel. it was great, listening to the pilot crank each of those engines over. the sputter and then a cloud of engine would sweep past the second class windows as each engine came to life. some passengers clutching the seat arm rests with a death grip. the jets don't do much for me. vinn


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Not that I have one but if I did I wouldn't have an issue with the licence.

Despite the blurb about criminals the vast majority of the general public are fairly law abiding and to me whether it's driving or guns to be accessed for your to own suitability to be a safe owner shouldn't be an issue.

As an example Big M had 40+ driving lessons, she is useless. Her instructor was pulling his hair out not to mention that he and various unsuspecting members of the general public were nearly killed in the process.

I wouldn't let her push a trolley in ASDA unsupervised never mind drive a car.

Sure it doesn't stop the occasional nutter going postal but most of those have done it with legally held and licensed weapons so maybe it needs even closer scrutiny in the first place.

So for me on balance all be it only air rifles it's not a bad thing.


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

BondandBigM said:


> Not that I have one but if I did I wouldn't have an issue with the licence.
> 
> Despite the blurb about criminals the vast majority of the general public are fairly law abiding and to me whether it's driving or guns to be accessed for your to own suitability to be a safe owner shouldn't be an issue.


 I think the main issue is that you will have to prove that you need a licence. Doing target shooting safely in your garden may not be considered a satisfactory need.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

richy176 said:


> I think the main issue is that you will have to prove that you need a licence. Doing target shooting safely in your garden may not be considered a satisfactory need.


 Correct, why not just pop down to a local club. If there isn't one close by think of the jobs if one opened up


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## johnbaz (Jan 30, 2005)

robredz said:


> Have a pistol crossbow, the metal one and a Barnett Wildcat, again both good for rabbiting and vermin control living in a rural area.


 It's actually illegal to hunt with any stringed weapon in the UK :yes:

John


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## johnbaz (Jan 30, 2005)

xellos99 said:


> *They know where every gun is.* They know how many bullets you have, where you keep them, where you got them, how many sights/silencers you have. You have to justify every thing you have and have it approved. They want to know if you move house immediately, they will question you extensively and if you don't know the firearms act well they will catch you out. If there is a patch of land you want to shot on a firearms officer wants to go there with you and walk around it with the permission of the landowner ( most farmers hate police on there land so good luck with that ) and have detailed maps of the land ( more faf the farmers cant be bothered with ) then some more paperwork and approvals and what calibre you will use there and what you will shoot and if it is an appropriate calibre etc. I could go on all day but you get the picture, any ounce of enjoyment is stripped out of it and they can take back your licence if you put one foot wrong. Yes they have a database, the UK are like that.


 Actually, They don't!!

They had something of a computer crash and had to write to people they knew held guns and ask what they owned, A friend of mine is very pally with a local FAO, He admitted that they lost a lot of data and had to send letters out as they still had the names of the license holders but not what they had on ticket!! :wacko:

John :swoon:


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Bruce said:


> i bought these for my daughter, she wanted to try target shooting
> 
> a kid was shot in the head and died in 2012 i think and that started the gun carry on, what they dont realise though is the nutters that would shoot a kid dont care about licenses and will keep their guns under the bed so *it will make no difference at all IMO*


 Correct Bruce,* CORRECT! :yes: *

*Same difference - - a 14 year old on a trials motor bike on a Main road, swerves to avoid a car being driven innocently and hits a wall, he dies and pillion passenger is seriously ill in Sick Kids Hospital ('cos he's only 14 as well) and we now have the customary " such a nice lad, always cheery and friendly" stuff and flowers and tributes at the spot ! *

*No mention of being on a bike that's unlicensed, he's not licensed, cannot possibly be insured, carrying a passenger and neither with helmets or leathers on - - * :bash:

*WTF are the parents thinking of or even thinking at all?*


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2016)

mel said:


> Correct Bruce,* CORRECT! :yes: *
> 
> *Same difference - - a 14 year old on a trials motor bike on a Main road, swerves to avoid a car being driven innocently and hits a wall, he dies and pillion passenger is seriously ill in Sick Kids Hospital ('cos he's only 14 as well) and we now have the customary " such a nice lad, always cheery and friendly" stuff and flowers and tributes at the spot ! *
> 
> ...


 i hear 14 year olds are getting banned, kids will jump from 13 to 15 :thumbsup:


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