# What Do You Make Of This One?



## dapper (Jun 18, 2004)

Is it a Slava? It's not signed like any Slava I've seen before.

Maybe it's a 'Chinese' Russian?

40mm case & nice hands.....










.....display back with No. G05056 - looks like a screw-off but I can't budge it......










.....inscription on the movement looks Chinese.....










.....and a signed strap:










What do you reckon?


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

I've seen these around on the bay (dotcom bay more) and I reckoned they're Chinese made. My thoughts were that they were maybe a copy, maybe a rip-off, but Slava is as cheap as chips anyway, so why? The only other answer is maybe they're making them for Slava and these are "over-makes" that are being released onto the market via HK.









If the signature is to be believed, it does say "Russia" in Cyrillic at the 6 marker, and the 17 Kahmne is 17 jewels. Dunno about the "Sozvezache" or "Sozvezatse" though - that's roughly what it seems to come out into English as below the Slava! The Slava is right in Cyrillic script, I have this on a Slava Travel Clock. (comes out as Craba roughly )









Need someone who can read Cyrillic and translate to tell us I suppose. (Miss Moneypenny, contact Commander Bond please!







)


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## Soviet1 (Feb 5, 2008)

Its a fake, not a very good one at that.



> My thoughts were that they were maybe a copy, maybe a rip-off, but Slava is as cheap as chips anyway, so why?


Soviet watches are extremely popular as collectable items(especially in the west), given the popularityits only natural cheap fakes would spring up in areas where there is a market for such items.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Soviet1 said:


> Its a fake, not a very good one at that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now you see, that it's a fake or rip-off doesn't *REALLY* bother me too much, it ends up firmly in the "affordables and everyday" marketplace from the prices I've seen. I'd be interested in knowing from Dapper what you actually think of it as a watch in itself - and if you decide you don't want it, I'd take it for the collection maybe?









Been thinking about sending for one to see what it's like, so maybe your impressions would be interesting.


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## dapper (Jun 18, 2004)

Thanks for your thoughts chaps









It's an interesting curiosity this one.

Certainly a Chinese effort but, as far as I can tell, it's not a copy of a particular Slava model

& the usual signature hasn't been used. Seems like it's an 'original design' fake 

Can you imagine a bloke in the pub noticing it and saying 'Hey, is that a _real_ Slava?'









It's quite a good-looking watch though the long strap's weird & I can't see how to change it. T-bar lugs usually have screw fittings but these bars looks fixed.










Anyway, I like it ok but I'm not too attached to it - Mel, PM me if you'd like it


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

PM sent, should be with you soon.


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## Soviet1 (Feb 5, 2008)

> Now you see, that it's a fake or rip-off doesn't REALLY bother me too much, it ends up firmly in the "affordables and everyday" marketplace from the prices I've seen.


I hate rip-off fake watches, usually for good reason. Designs almost always have a cheap movement, the case quality finish is rather low and the overall poor quality usually puts people off the Slava watch, its quite a shame as Slava watches are really great pieces.

It may also be worth noting that Chinese products(especially knockoffs) are often dangerous to your health, I remember reading an expose on Chinese knockoff icewines, including some that were just dirty water, flavouring and sugar, made quite a few people sick.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm not convinced that it's a fake at all. Maybe Slava has simply followed the practice of numerous Western companies and moved their manufacturing base (or at least part of it perhaps) to China? Are we sure that Slava is even still in existence as a Russian-owned company?


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## dapper (Jun 18, 2004)

rhaythorne said:


> I'm not convinced that it's a fake at all. Maybe Slava has simply followed the practice of numerous Western companies and moved their manufacturing base (or at least part of it perhaps) to China? Are we sure that Slava is even still in existence as a Russian-owned company?


I agree with you & doubt that it's a fake. It's probably Chinese made - the movement certainly seems to be. It's not unknown for Russians to have Chinese movements, Orions have had them for some time


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## Soviet1 (Feb 5, 2008)

I am 100% certain its a fake, whatsmore a 10 min search on google gave me verification of said fake.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=26802


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## blackandgolduk (Apr 25, 2005)

From Slava, via Watchuseek forum, circa Sept '06...

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Re. Irina, images of watches you sent me...

Few years ago (as far as I know around 5-7 years ago) Slava management (not the present one - previous director) gave permission for usage of Slava brand to some company. (some people say that the Director was one of the shareholders of this daughter copmany). In order to identify watches produced by "big" Slava and daughter company and in order to promote new watches it was agreed to introduce new brand "Slava Sozvezdie". That was the time when borders were just opened and people started to bring staff from China. Some models were produced with Slava movements, but some models with Chinese ones.

At present formally nobody has any official permission for production of watches under brand name "Slava". But if people had developed connections, constant demand, for sure they will not stop their business. If you pay attention, logo "Slava" is not written as our original brand. But we must admit that the design is rather good. Even though the movements can be terrible. At our Luzhniki market the whole-sale price for that watches is US$ 6-7 (six-seven!!!!) and the minimum order quantity is 10 (ten!!) pieces!! Moreover, these watches are sold by Chinese!! So, I think you can make all conclusions by yourself...

We thought about court trial against them. And we are gathering now documents for that. But can anybody win Chinese???

>>>>>>>


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## dapper (Jun 18, 2004)

I've got a lot of respect for Irina, she's an experienced watch dealer.

She's also cast doubts about Juri Levenbergs offerings


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## blackandgolduk (Apr 25, 2005)

dapper said:


> I've got a lot of respect for Irina, she's an experienced watch dealer.
> 
> She's also cast doubts about Juri Levenbergs offerings


Ooooh, pray tell?!


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Yes, I'd read that, but it falls well short of "verification" for me.

If the watch in question was made during the time when Slava had this supposed arrangement with the Chinese company, then it's not a fake in my book. If it was made shortly after the arrangement was revoked then I'm not entirely sure I'd brand it as an outright fake even then if it was identical to one that would have been made during the time when the arrangmement was still in place.

Trying to figure out the machinations of the Russian watch industry is difficult at the best of times. And now that there is some evidence that certain marques had some sort of arrangement with Chinese manufacturing facilities (for a while at least) it becomes even more tricky to unravel.

I doubt we will ever really know the full story and in this case relying solely on Internet search results doesn't cut it for me. I remain to be convinced, but don't try too hard, I'm not in the market for one anyway


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## dapper (Jun 18, 2004)

blackandgolduk said:


> dapper said:
> 
> 
> > I've got a lot of respect for Irina, she's an experienced watch dealer.
> ...


From an article written by Irina:

2. Juri Levenberg. A lot has been written about this watch dealer in the WUSF. J. Levenberg is a Russian who moved to Germany quite a few years ago and started to sell Russian watches through Internet. As there was no distribution policy at that time the business bloomed. Juri Levenberg sold watches to other internet dealers for Russian watches like Ruwatch, Poljot24, etc. Some years ago the Russian watch manufacturers came to the conclusion that working on the world market is not possible without reasonable distribution strategy and so, the rights to sell some official Russian watch brands were given to companies that were able to work not only with Internet shops but what is more important, with normal retail shops, to represent the watch brands on the decent level at watch trade fairs, etc. Levenberg company never got the right from any Russian watch manufacturer for any exclusive representation at the German market, moreover, some of the Russian watch manufacturers refuse to deliver any watches to this company. Thus it led to the situation that has been known for a certain time: Levenberg company suddenly offers watches in E-bay that are supposed to be Russian but give no indication to their manufacturer, additionaly they are sold by his company to some of their Internet dealers. A warning signal for all people who like Russian watches: is it a real Russian watch if there is no official Russian watch manufacturer behind it or is it an UFO? What are the reasons that make such "watch producers" hide the origin of their watches?'.

Cheers


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Well, I'm sitting here typeing away with the dreaded CJIABA on my wrist, thanks to Alan, it arrived here in misty Edinburgh this morning. Design is always subjective, I quite like this actually, and as a "desk divery" sort of thing it's ok by me. It's not a dress watch, and it's not a diver. Is it a fake? I'd guess it's more a licensed product as described above, I would think they've had or got some sort of agreement to make them, otherwise why not just copy a well known Slava design?









I see they've been known to cost around a euro from ebay.cn At that price what can you say, Does it matter? It's spot on at present from this a.m. setting it, and looks ok, Mrs Mel thinks it "looks nice" can't (daren't) argue with that! The black version on the website referenced looks even a bit better IMHO, but I'll be keeping this, I need a white dial beater chunk like this.









Where's this Lhuzinski market then, I could well see myself buying 10 of these to re-sell on fleaby UK at $60 or thirty quid for ten, that's three quid each, I'm sure a bit of creative copywriting about limited edition Cjiaba SS watches could bump up the price to UK e-bayers









Might even make enough to buy a Timex Electric for the collection


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## Soviet1 (Feb 5, 2008)

> If the watch in question was made during the time when Slava had this supposed arrangement with the Chinese company, then it's not a fake in my book.


for argument sake lets say it was from that period, it still cheapens the Slava brand as a whole(these watches are not anywhere near the excellent quality Russian Slava's). Honestly, I wouldnt touch such a product, even if it was free.



> If it was made shortly after the arrangement was revoked then I'm not entirely sure I'd brand it as an outright fake even then if it was identical to one that would have been made during the time when the arrangmement was still in place.
> 
> Trying to figure out the machinations of the Russian watch industry is difficult at the best of times. And now that there is some evidence that certain marques had some sort of arrangement with Chinese manufacturing facilities (for a while at least) it becomes even more tricky to unravel.
> 
> I doubt we will ever really know the full story and in this case relying solely on Internet search results doesn't cut it for me. I remain to be convinced, but don't try too hard, I'm not in the market for one anyway


I have a few books on Russian watches and I have never seen this model in any of them(nor have I ever seen a real Slava watch manufactured under said name and produced with such poor quality). I will keep looking however, any additional information on this "Slava" I will post here.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Cool, it'd be interesting to find out. I guess there may be some official clarification on the Slava web site(s) but, as they're all in Russian, I can't tell. There's an email address though. Curiosity may yet get the better of me









In the meantime, here's an article from the Hong Kong Trade Development Council (whoever they are







) from a few years back which has some interesting snippets in it. How much of what the article claims actually came to pass is open to question I guess and not all of it is related specifically to Slava, but it's perhaps at least a good illustration of how complex the whole situation is. Even the chap quoted in blackandgolduk's post doesn't seem to be completely sure of dates or exactly who agreed to what with this Chinese "arrangement" and he works for the company, so I doubt we'll ever know for sure.

Old Time Russian Watch Sector Needs Parts


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## Soviet1 (Feb 5, 2008)

I still cannot conclusively prove that the specific watch in question is a fake(at least not to some of you), however, this was extremely interesting and proves that the Chinese are indeed making counterfeit watches(the watch in question being of Chinese origin).



> From the official Slava Website: 05-06-2006
> 
> Attention! The market appeared alarms Chinese Glory. These alarms are counterfeit goods illegally imported into the country. According to the results of an examination revealed that they did not correspond to any of the currently operating in the territory of the Russian Federation or GOST TU for the product. In this regard, the leadership MOAO "Glory"(Second Watch Factory) has extended a formal statement.


http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...oscow%26hl%3Den


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## myller (Dec 18, 2007)

mel said:


> I've seen these around on the bay (dotcom bay more) and I reckoned they're Chinese made. My thoughts were that they were maybe a copy, maybe a rip-off, but Slava is as cheap as chips anyway, so why? The only other answer is maybe they're making them for Slava and these are "over-makes" that are being released onto the market via HK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sozvezdie = Constellation. How cool is that. Especially on Slava watch 

Cheers,

Kalev


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## Chascomm (Sep 9, 2005)

As others have mentioned already, Slava Sozvezdie is _not _Slava. The brand seems to exist mainly to cash in on the greater desirability of Russian watches. They don't have a model range as such so far as I can tell from ebay and forums. More like they pick up whatever movements and cases they can find at the lowest price and add their own dial. Hence this one has the Hangzhou Xihu ladies calibre, but others have Standard movements sourced from several unrelated factories. There are even some autos about.

By contrast, there _are _genuine Chinese-built Slava watches that were on offer at the time that the factory was closed and the business was relocated to the new shop. These are much higher quality than Slava-Sozvezdie.

Currently Slava are assembling watches with genuine Slava movements by using up existing parts stocks. The tooling is in storage awaiting somebody to inject some funds into the business sufficient to restart manufacturing. I think the only way that will happen is through a partnership with a foreign company. Perhaps Roy could pull together a British consortium to start an exclusive brand of double-mainspring watches?


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## mihai999 (Mar 12, 2008)

Hello Mel!!

I have a question for you.What is the price for a very old russian watch name"KUPOBCKUE" totaly construct in gold.

Regards


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