# Services Airman - Movement Id And Date Guesstimate



## quietman (Nov 3, 2011)

Hi,

I'm pretty new to buying Vintage watches having about a dozen serviceable ones and half a dozen 'spares or repair' that I'm self-teaching myself with (take apart, put back together, take apart, put back together....). I've recently acquired a Services Airman watch from you know where. I also have two ladies Services watches with easy to ID Bifora 68 and ST69 movements. In fact this Airman is the only movement that I haven't been able to at least basically ID from ranfft or other web resources.

The movement is marked simply with FG on the highly polished steel (or chromed?) bridge. No marking on the dial side of the movement. No apparent markings near the balance or otherwise visible on the movement. The dial is marked 'Made in England'. No markings on any of the case parts or anywhere else in fact.

Another interesting thing about this watch is that it seems to be basically unused. There are some lug scratches from a cack-handed springbar removal (not by me.....), a slight loss of sheen from a few square millimeters of the case beneath the crown and a few really small scrathes on the case bottom. Thats about it. Theres no apparent wear to the case plating and the dial is basically mint apart from half a millimeter square of missing lume from next to the 40 second mark. Second hand is slightly damaged (not by me.....). Hour and Minute hands still have blue/green lume. Springbars look original and basically new. Have they started knocking these off in Shenzhen???

Theres a couple of other strange things with the construction of this watch but I'm really interested in basic details of the movement and an idea of date.

(Can't seem to attach photos - they're uploaded and ready but when I tried 'Insert Image' here it said I wasn't allowed to use such and such image extension?)

Cheers,

MP.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

We have a resident "Services" guru who will come along and help you no doubt later to-day - - well he's nearly as old as me and sleeps a lot now, poor soul :lol:

In the meantime, there is a "pinned" guide to posting pictures on the forum, so have a look there for help and try to get the piccies up. :yes:

The piccie Guide is "pinned" at the head of the very first section of the forum, should answer your problems easily. Also, if you use the preview button you can see if the piccies are there or not before you actually post!


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## quietman (Nov 3, 2011)

I declare myself to be an idiot. But fortunately even idiots can eventually work out how to get the pictures up.....

The first thing I do when I get a watch is take it apart into components - to check condition, damage etc. as I only buy cheap dogs. So the watch is already in pieces so you'll have to use your imagination a little.


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## dombox40 (Oct 20, 2008)

A picture of the dial is what is required as the services logo can date the watch reasonably well, there are three types 1930, 1950s, and 1970s AFAIK.


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## quietman (Nov 3, 2011)

And the dial ......


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## quietman (Nov 3, 2011)

Bit Bigger..... Sorry, I'm using this post to figure out how to post piccies.....


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## quietman (Nov 3, 2011)

OK, I got it. I was linking to the thumbnails and not the pics. Sorry, must be really annoying to read this post.....

Decent sized pics......


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## dombox40 (Oct 20, 2008)

I am not an expert but I would say with that logo on the dial it dates from the 1950s, I,m sure when our resident expert Mach takes a look (when he wakes up) he will be able to give you all the information you need.


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

dombox40 said:


> I am not an expert but I would say with that logo on the dial it dates from the 1950s, I,m sure when our resident expert Mach takes a look (when he wakes up) he will be able to give you all the information you need.


 I`m glad to see you guys take notice 










By the logo style & the fact it has the model name I`d date it to around the mid 1950s. The `Made In England` usually means it was supplied to The Services Watch Co.,Ltd., by Louis Newmark of Croydon. I`m not too familiar with the movement but seem to remember seeing one similar posted on the forum some time back, hopefully someone else may recognise it & provide more information :wink2:

BTW I`ve been busy not sleeping


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## quietman (Nov 3, 2011)

Thanks, Newmark sounds familiar from my Services info trawl. After reading your reply I found this -

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=66511

which shows a different movement but very obviously from the same stable as mine.

One interesting thing about both of these watches seems to be the inclusion of a 'dial chassis plate' to provide clearance for the keyless works from the back of the dial. If you look at the pictures of the Services Winchester in the attached post you will see that the dial mounting holes (on the front of the dial) are at 3 and 9 o'clock. If you look at the picture of the underside of the Winchester's movement you will see that the 'dial' has mounting holes at 6 and 12 o'clock as well.

So of course there is an intermediate plate attached to the dial side of the movement which the dial then attaches to. And no I wouldn't call it part of the movement, rather it seems to be a piece of classic English 'Engineering'......heres a photo of this piece from my Airman watch -


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## Chascomm (Sep 9, 2005)

quietman said:


>


That's a Newmark 2nd gen movement like in the Services Winchester but with the optional sweep-second feature. You get an extra jewel with that, so six jewels in all.

I reckon those photos would be worth adding to the 'Show us your movements' thread over on the main forum.


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## manderson66 (Nov 22, 2011)

Hi

I have joined this forum because I am looking to acquire a Services Airman watch but have been struggling to find one. My late father owned one as a teenager in the 1950's and I still have the original box. I don't know what happened to the watch but would like to replace it if anyone on here can advise where I may find one.

Thanks



quietman said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm pretty new to buying Vintage watches having about a dozen serviceable ones and half a dozen 'spares or repair' that I'm self-teaching myself with (take apart, put back together, take apart, put back together....). I've recently acquired a Services Airman watch from you know where. I also have two ladies Services watches with easy to ID Bifora 68 and ST69 movements. In fact this Airman is the only movement that I haven't been able to at least basically ID from ranfft or other web resources.
> 
> ...


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

manderson66 said:


> Hi
> 
> I have joined this forum because I am looking to acquire a Services Airman watch but have been struggling to find one. My late father owned one as a teenager in the 1950's and I still have the original box. I don't know what happened to the watch but would like to replace it if anyone on here can advise where I may find one.
> 
> Thanks


Hi & welcome to the forum, as with all Services watches the style changed over the years, they were available in both lumed & unlumed dials. Services didn`t actually make watches themselves rather they sourced them from various companies (Swiss, English also possibly French or German) some used unjeweled movements others had jeweled ones. The point is unless you know what your Father`s watch actually looked like it could be difficult to find the exact version he owned. You mention that you have the original box, this can help give an idea of the date,if it is yellow with a drawing of three servicemen then it should date to the early `50s, if plain grey or black then it would be later.

This chart gives you an idea of the style of dial logo you need to look for ...










Up until the late `50s the model name was put below the Services logo.

Anyway in answer to your question the best place to look for a suitable replacement for your Father is ebay.

I hope this is of help :wink2:


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## handlehall (Aug 7, 2009)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Anyway in answer to your question the best place to look for a suitable replacement for your Father is ebay.
> 
> I hope this is of help :wink2:


 :jawdrop:

My old boy expired in 1973 do they do replacements from that far back too?


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

handlehall said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway in answer to your question the best place to look for a suitable replacement for your Father is ebay.
> ...


Doh!  :lol:


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