# Citizen all types



## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Not a Miyota fan(Hi Garry) but keeping an open mind.

Don't really know much about their mechanicals, and still think incabloc is better. Here's my Divers Eco Drive quartz, which does seem reliable:-










Bit out of focus, but got this sussed for next time.


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

Hi Griff

I've yet to have any serious problems with any of my Citizen watches, either mechanical or Eco Drive. I haven't got any normal quartz (battery powered) watches using a Miyota movement (that I know of anyway) so can't comment on these. On the whole though the watches seem to be of good quality. I did have a problem with my vintage Citizen 150m diver, but this was due to me playing squash in it! Easily sorted by myself following advice given to me by Roy. It's now working just as well as before. My oldest Citizen is a mechanical alarm (from 1965 I think) and this works perfectly well, Roy has repaired/serviced it though. I like your Eco Drive diver, do you have any more info on it?

Cheers

Paul


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## Foggy (Feb 25, 2003)

Nice Citizen, Griff. I'm constantly amazed at the quality they can achieve for the price. Must be something to do with being the largest producer, worldwide, in this industry. A couple of years back, I bought an Ecodrive diver for Â£80, BNIB with papers, and it's probably the best Â£80 I've spent on any watch. The build quality is exceptional, and the bracelet is as good as any I've worn.

http://hyperphoto.photoloft.com/view/expor...922&w=600&h=450

Cheers

Foggy


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

Hi Foggy

That's like the Eco Drive I have, except mine has a GMT hand also. It's a quality item that keeps remarkable time. It's the only watch I've kept on its original bracelet. I don't like bracelets normally but this one is of excellent quality.

Cheers

Paul


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

Paul is it that shiny bracelet? As I said before, that's what put me off the Modena.


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

Hi Paul

No the bracelet has a brushed finish. It's a solid link oyster with the chunkiest clasp I've ever had the pleasure of using. As I said it's a quality watch, very subtle and understated.

Paul


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## Sargon (Feb 24, 2003)

Getting back to the first post I know Incabloc is used in most Swiss watches. Seiko uses their own propriatary system named Diashock. Does Citizen/Miota use their own shock protection system?


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Paul,

The model is EP0220-03F

It's retail is Â£159. I got this as a clearance for Â£99.










It's a one piece stainless case, screw in crown, 200M.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

Hi Griff,

Glad to see you're keeping an open mind. I think it's each to thier own on what movements they like. I'm no movement buff and just go by personal experience and can honestly say I've never had a problem with a Citizen / Miyota. In fact, it was a Citizen auto with the Miyota 8215 movement that managed to survive my working conditions longer than any other watch I've owned!. I've owned more Citizen than anything else, but have also owned numerous other brands.

I'll take and post a pic of my eco-drive diver tomorrow, which is one of my favourite watches, possibly the best value watch I own - possibly, because Orient are amazing for the money.

G.


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

Hi Griff

Thanks for the picture. The watch looks good, I'll have to keep an eye out for one, it'll go well with my Eco-Drive.

Cheers

Paul


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

That's the chestnut question Sargon. I hope Roy will come in on this.

I now think the Seiko shock protection system is quite good, and the movements are indeed tough, and reliable, although a bit hit and miss to regulate to any fineness. I've said before I'm delighted with my SKX779, which luckily came out of the box with a gain of just 2 s per day.........amazing! But I'm not convinced the shock protection system is as good with the Miyota, and certainly not as good as incabloc, and certainly not from the point of view of fine regulation adjustment.

Garry and Andy will probably disagree about this, and the arguments are long, old, and tired, to go through it all again, but I'm one of those people who likes looking at movements such as a bumper Omega, or a Geneva waved 2824, or Unitas, or 7750, and think to myself............wow, I'm really impressed with that! I can't get that buzz looking at a Miyota, and if I'm honest, not a Seiko either, although I've warmed to some of the Seiko models, as I think Andy will acknowledge.

Some of the vintage Swiss look really great inside, and I'm hoping to post images of a few of those soon.

Cheers,

Griff.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Citizen/Miyota do use a shock protection system on par with Seiko.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Just got this reply from Eddie. Interesting info:-

Seiko uses it's own shock protection system, which they call "Diashock". Looking at the picture, you can see that it looks very much like the Kif system.

Citizen seem to use "Parashock" shock protection and the design of their mechanical movements owes a lot to the Swiss manufacturer, AS. If you can find one, the Citizen chronometer is worth having.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Right, that's it then......I'm convinced about one model.......who's got a Citizen Chronometer to sell!!


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Griff is right this is old ground but I would like to stick my oar in.

I like Seiko's because of the quality to price ratio, value for money I suppose.

At the mechanical end of the market they are not stunning things to look at internally or externally.

It's a case of "Does exactly what it says on the tin"

Seiko still do make some lovely movements which unfortunatlely are not available here.

On the subject thought you might like to see this

http://www.tctv.ne.jp/members/yutayuta/Seiko60.html


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Grands are impressive.


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Here's the Citizen Chronometer you wanted Griff


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

How much!!!!


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

It's not mine.

Just a pic I had.

Wouldn't cost much. Thats the great thing about collecting vintage Japanese watches. It's a cheap hobby.

(Mostly)


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

That's very cruel Andy, tempting me like that. It reminds me of a prick teasing lady rep I know ( stay calm......just having a bit of josh with you!







)


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Hey..I'm cool.

I may stand to be corrected on this but as far as I'm aware the best Japanese watches, including chronometers, were never imported to these shores.

Interesting fact I found out recently.

For reasons unbeknown (although theories abound), somewhere around the late 60's the COSC banned Japanese movements for submission for chronometer status







Some believe that the Swiss makers conspired to have this done because the Japanese product was becoming to damn good

Hmmm

Anyway the Japanese makers responded by jointly introducing there own standard that was in fact more strict.

My knowledge on this is a bit sketchy and I cannot remember the term/name given to this Japanese standard but the result was, no matter how much some may deny it, some pretty fantastic movements. Esspecially by Seiko in the form of the "Grand"


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Interesting!

Any info. on this Roy?


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## Guest (May 20, 2003)

Andy

I make a rare trip to the Jap forum and find all sorts of slander being iterated!!









How could COSC have barred Japanese watches in the 60's when it wasn't founded until 1973 itself?

Prior to this Observatory tests were carried out in Switzerland for Swiss watches (the reason an observatory is shown in relief on the back of the Omega Constellations)

So what had this to do with the Japs?

Apparently the Japs started their own testing procedure but nobody (even Jap collectors) seems to know much about it and I've never seen a watch with an indication of its test competency.

I'm off now and don't tell anyone I was here









Cheers,

Neil.


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Neil

As I said I'm a bit sketchy on details but am pretty sure the basic facts are right.

I think the Japanese standard that was the backlash of the makers being denied the opportunity of chronometer status, does not appear marked on the watch but came in the form of paperwork with it.

I am looking into it and will come back to the subject when I have more info.

By the way I assume by "Jap" you mean Japanese.


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## Guest (May 20, 2003)

Yes sorry Andy,

Didn't mean to be derogatory, it's just that Jap doesn't take so long to type as Japanese.

Neil.


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## mat (Feb 25, 2003)

Neil,

Who did the certification before COSC? Such as for your lovely pie pan.

I thought the observatory tests where for special watches produced for those competitions, not for sale....

Cheers,

Mat


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

OK Neil

I suppose I know you well enough now to know you don't mean to sound derogitory.

It's just that the word JAP irritates the hell out of me.


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