# Anybody know S&S?



## vstromer650 (Mar 3, 2018)

Hi all, my son brought this travel clock around yesterday boasting that I would not be able to find any information about it. After not finding anything on the net, I thought you people will are my best bet. So please any info on the company and a rough date would be brilliant and it will prove to my son that I am in with the right crowd. Sorry not the best picture, Its an S&S 2 jewel swiss key wound movement, tics along quite happily, its just that the hands don't go with it they seem lose. Thanks for any info!


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## nevenbekriev (Apr 21, 2019)

You have forgot to attach a foto of the movement…


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

What an interesting conundrum, @vstromer650. My first conclusion was that your clock was actually part of a larger instrument designed for the workplace, recording clocking-on and clocking-off times, and these instruments were/are generally termed, "time recorders." However, I then discovered a Swiss-made pocket watch that bears the name, ' "S. & S. TIME RECORDER" ' on the dial, along with "EUREKA LEVER" and "SWISS MADE." This watch, with a separate seconds register at 6 o'clock and crown-wind, would seem to date from the early 20th century and, unusually, it has a button or slider in the four o'clock position on the side of the case, the purpose of which I am not sure. (pics from i.ebayimg.com):




























In order to progress with your enquiry, some additional pictures would be helpful, especially of the movement, and could you also tell us what is printed on your clock dial immediately beneath the title, "TIME RECORDER."


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## vstromer650 (Mar 3, 2018)

Sorry! here are some more pics























Thank you both for your interest! Not really sure what non magnetic means, it looks like there are steel components in there.


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## stdape (Mar 9, 2018)

Seen a few on e-bay, are you sure it is not 7 jewel?


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## vstromer650 (Mar 3, 2018)

stdape said:


> Seen a few on e-bay, are you sure it is not 7 jewel?


 Quite possibly 7 jewels, my eyes aren't what they used to be!



> What an interesting conundrum, @vstromer650. My first conclusion was that your clock was actually part of a larger instrument designed for the workplace, recording clocking-on and clocking-off times, and these instruments were/are generally termed, "time recorders." However, I then discovered a Swiss-made pocket watch that bears the name, ' "S. & S. TIME RECORDER" ' on the dial, along with "EUREKA LEVER" and "SWISS MADE." This watch, with a separate seconds register at 6 o'clock and crown-wind, would seem to date from the early 20th century and, unusually, it has a button or slider in the four o'clock position on the side of the case, the purpose of which I am not sure. (pics from i.ebayimg.com):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 It reads non magnetic, whatever that means, I too saw this on ebay but have not found any more info!


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## stdape (Mar 9, 2018)

It is possible their might be a cal or some info under the Dial. Some people can tell what movement it is, by looking at the setting lever under the dial. Knowing what the Movement is might help date it. But obviously do not try if your not use to doing that.

see what you mean information is lacking on Google!! So annoying as i have a few pocket watches hard to find information on. Its a nice movement, tried looking in the books i have (not many), but no luck. Will keep trying, but hopefully someone will shed light on this. Just to narrow it down how wide is the movement? In MM


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## vstromer650 (Mar 3, 2018)

Thanks stdape, the movement measures 41.5mm and is definitely 7 jewels. Yes after removing the 3 screws on the front that surround the glass, the metal and glass and the face all moved at the same time telling me that all that was holding it all together was the hands (annoying) so I have just put it back together. Another strange thing I have noticed is the red line on the face at the 59 marker, not a clue what that's about. The brown leather covered wooden 3 fold box that the clock/watch is mounted in looks original and there are no makers marks on it, don't know if any of this helps our quest for answers!


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## vstromer650 (Mar 3, 2018)

Not really sure what to do with this now, do I put some money into it and get it restored and serviced, though I think it would have been better as a pocket watch rather than a travel clock, I also think there will be a lot of unanswered questions about the manufacturer and a possible date for it. Any thoughts please! Thanks.


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## Ivo Glenister (Jan 11, 2022)

Hi, this is my first forum post so bare with me. - And I know this thread is three years old but oh well.

I was recently given a more complete version on this object and when trying to find out more about the object stumbled across this thread.
Since then I talked to a very knowledgeable and respected horologist (who I wont name as I haven't asked their permision) who was able to hazard a pretty good guess at the nature of the clock.

My specimen seems to have the original hands and a cast iron case that the whole timepiece rotates around on 2 bearings (figure 1).










(Figure 1)

What I was told was that the clock was probably part of a larger mechanism used in a timed bank vault. There are several features that indercate this on my specimen but i have no way of validating the claim as I have scowered the internat and found nothing on such things anywhere, or anything on the S&S brand being involved in bank safes. So perhaps I'm completly inncorect or, perhaps such details about bank vaults where intentionaly not published (which whilst slightly conspiritorial is not too far out of the realms of possibility).

Indicators of this usecase are:

-The cast iron shrowd the movment sits in. (This at least indicates the movment is of a larger mechanism of som kind)

-The fact the moment rotates inside of this shrowd shows if was designed for an enviroment of rotaion or excess moment, in this case presumably the back of a rotating vault door?

-The hands of the moment. The hands of the moment have a distinctive slit cut into them that lines up each hour. Specifically at 12:00 where there is a slot also cut into the bezzel allowing for a pin to drop in at that time locking the vault.

-On both movments dial also has a red marking at 11:58:30 presumably to note that the vault is close to being locked for a period of time (figure 2).










(Figure 2)

Having said all this, the moment in my one is actually slightly different, whilst it's architecture is very similar to the original in this thread, it's made of steel and the barrel bridge is signifacntly larger, so clearly it's a slightly different model. (Figure 3)










(Figure 3)

Also as previously mentioned S&S did make other types of watch so our two movments may have completly different purposes! Perhaps we'll never Know.

I would note That whilst this moment winds from behind with a key, when i take the dial off (No photos as i dont have my screwdrivers right now so can't take it off for photos) there is a space left in the movment for a manual crown winding mechanism so clearly this moment was used by S&S for more normal watches as well.

Even if this information isn't relevant to this thread i feel what I've written is helpfull documentation as it appears to not exist on the internet anywhere else at the time of writing.


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## SolaVeritate (Mar 21, 2021)

Fascinating stuff


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

All very intriguing. Regarding @Always"watching"'s Eureka Lever pocket watch, "Eureka" was a trademark that Rotherhams acquired in 1926 when they bought the Electa factory in La Chaux-de-Fonds. See https://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/rotherham.php and search "Eureka" for the relevant section.

Mikrolisk has many other references to "Eureka" however. http://www.mikrolisk.de/show.php?site=280&suchwort=Eureka&searchWhere=all#sucheMarker


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

I wasn't sure if the identity of "S&S" is known to @Ivo Glenister or not, but I looked it up in Swiss commercial records and there is a maker's mark "S&S" registered to Saunders, Shepherd & Co Ltd, of London, in June 1948. They are listed as makers of jewellery. According to Graces Guide, the business goes back to 1869 in Fetter Lane and later Bartlett's Passage, London. It became a limited company in 1916 and in 1921 was awarded a patent for a clasp to attach an expanding bracelet to a watch. In 1959 they bought W.H. Wilmott in Birmingham, which made "Gold Expanding Bracelets for Watches. Gold Chains, Alberts, Dress Chains, Necklets, Guards, Bracelets, etc." Saunders, Shepherd & Co doesn't appear to have been well known for watches, but in Nov 1963 the Horological Journal of the BHI said Saunders, Shepherd & Co exhibited at the Watch & Jewellery Trade Fair, showing "The Buckingham Watch, a men's extra large square model" which was "very slim and shaped to the wrist." So it seems they were wholesalers of watches, alongside their other activities. The Shepherd family was active in the BHI, J.F.H Shepherd becoming Chairman in 1897 and W.S. Shepherd being elected to the committee in 1960.


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