# What Happens To The First Wheel When The Stem Is In Setting Mode?



## Nitrous (Jan 12, 2013)

Hi guys,

I'm trying to understand the relationship between the gear trains for winding, setting and running.

It's difficult for me to describe, using the correct terms but I believe the winding gear train is completely independent, essentially connecting to the running gear train only indirectly via the mainspring, which powers the watch.

The setting position engages the intermediate gear (AKA setting gear?, which is always meshed with the minute/hour wheels) when the stem is pulled out and the clutch is moved from winding to setting position.

In the running position, the energy stored in the mainspring is released through the first wheel to the second wheel (centre wheel) etc. this transfer is "regulated" by the escapement, through motion driven by the balance wheel.

What I'm not clear about (and I've found more than a few great diagrams of the winding or setting gear trains, I have not seen one that shows the relationship between these AND the hour/minute wheels.

Anyone have a simple explanation? Am I way off on my thoughts so far?

Thanks folks

Doug


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## Jewel (Aug 20, 2012)

Hi Doug, In a nutshell, depending on the setup of the movement, the stem of the case in the pushed in position (normal position) keeps the setting gear disengaged and is always engaged onto the winding gear which is meshed onto the mainspring winding gear. When you pull the crown to set the watch, the gear sleeve around the stem disengages from the winding gear and engages onto the setting gear which is meshed onto the cannon pinion. When you turn the crown to set the hands, the winding gear turns the cannon pinion and in turn the hands. The hour wheel does not turn. The cannon pinion simply turns around it as its held there only by friction. Hope this helps.


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## davycrocket (Mar 19, 2013)

Test And an Edit. I seem to have a problem posting to this thread Davycrocket. I replied already a few days ago and the post has gone. Tried again just now and what I had written just dissapeared when I hit 'Post'. Then did a 'Test which arrived ok in the thread .Puzzled . !! Makes me wonder whether I want to join this site. !! Davycrocket

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Note that my New member on the left shows that I have made two posts .

But where did the first one go ?

Davycrocket


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## davycrocket (Mar 19, 2013)

Doug

Trying just one more time.

I could not believe what I read in the Answer to your question . !!!!

An explanation of winding/ handsetting change over and some close up pictures of the two stem settings.

Davycrocket


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Doug, do you really want your contact details on an open forum where anyone, including spammers & criminals, can see them?

If not let me know & I`ll delete them from your post.


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## davycrocket (Mar 19, 2013)

Hi Moderator

by the way I am Davycrocket, and I was addressing my remark to the poster called Doug .

OK, thank you for your comment about security . You can delete both tel no and Email ..

Was that in fact why the first post that I made seemed to have disappeared ?

I am finding the forum very unusable in that I seem to be unable to do ANYTHING untill I have made 50 posts .

I even get a message saying I am not authourized to look at my own profile . .

(When I click on my user name on the left of my posts )

And with his small no of posts, Doug can't contact me through your website .

Rgds

Davycrocket


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

davycrocket said:


> Hi Moderator
> 
> by the way I am Davycrocket, and I was addressing my remark to the poster called Doug .
> 
> ...


My mistake,may I suggest that you add a post detailing the information you wish to pass on to Doug concerning "An explanation of winding/ handsetting change over"



> I am finding the forum very unusable in that I seem to be unable to do ANYTHING untill I have made 50 posts .
> 
> I even get a message saying I am not authourized to look at my own profile . .
> 
> ...


Regarding the difficulties you mention; did you check the Forum Rules as laid down by the owner Roy Taylor when you joined?



> *Forum Terms & Rules*
> 
> Please take a moment to review these rules detailed below. If you agree with them and wish to proceed with the registration, simply click the "Register" button below. To cancel this registration, simply hit the 'back' button on your browser.
> 
> ...


See - http://www.thewatchf...tion=boardrules


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## davycrocket (Mar 19, 2013)

OK

So you want it written on the forum instead of in a private message .

Here goes .

Hi Doug

The answer in post 2 to your simple question in post 1 was a load of nonsence . !!

Quote

"disengages from the winding gear and engages onto the setting gear which is meshed onto the cannon pinion. When you turn the crown to set the hands, the winding gear turns the cannon pinion and in turn the hands. The hour wheel does not turn. The cannon pinion simply turns around it as its held there only by friction.."

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In reality, when the crown is pulled out the, a slot on the stem and a small peg on a setting lever cause the sliding pinion to disengage from the Winding Pinion and, depending on the particular watch movement, engage on the minute wheel via one or more setting wheels . The minute wheel is a part of the two stage motion work which divides by 12 for the hour hand . When the Crown is turned, the minute wheel in turning via the setting wheel (s), causes the cannon pinion's friction fit to slip on the centre arbor which projects through the front plate of the watch, and the minute pinion at the centre of, and attached to the minute wheel causes the hour wheel to be turned . The minute hand is attached on the tip of the cannon pinion, and the hour hand is attached to the tip of the pipe on the hour wheel . .

The winding pinion, which is always in mesh with the winding wheels of the watch, has a round hole at its centre and is only ever driven by the ratchet teeth on the Crown end of the sliding pinion . A confusion factor for anyone seaching for diagrams of this area in a watch will find that the ratchet teeth, always invariably incorrectly drawn, make it look as though the winding pinnion drives the sliding pinion ,and not the other way around . . It is the square section of the stem which only ever engages the square section hole in the sliding pinion .

Rgds

Davycrocket


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

May I suggest that a bit of diplomacy would have been a good idea, instead of stating that...



davycrocket said:


> The answer in post 2 to your simple question in post 1 was a load of nonsence . !!


you could have said that the information given was mistaken. Good manners & politeness cost nothing :wink2:


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## Jewel (Aug 20, 2012)

Thanks for the support. I didnt think my explanation was too different anyway, and its not easy to get what you want to get out across in text. With respect Davycrocket, I found your comments quite rude, and hope you change your attitude to what is a great community forum. You should also understand that not everyone is an expert watchmaker, but we do enjoy the hobby with a passion, and these forums are a place for mutual support and comment.


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## davycrocket (Mar 19, 2013)

Hello Jewel

I apologise if I offended you , but I could not believe what I had read in post No 2 in answer to Doug's question .

I then became frustrated in not being able to contact Doug directly to send some close up Photos of the two positions of the sliding pinion ,also known as the 'clutch', with explanations of what was happening . So I over reacted a bit in my offending post .

But you know, politely as I can put it , you should not be offering incorrect information to someone who is looking for clarification of a watch function that's puzzling them.

Even in your post No 10 you still believe that your explanation was not too far off the mark .

But Jewel, I have never seen a watch with a setting wheel, also known as 'intermediate' wheel that engages the Cannon Pinion

directly. And you said " The hour wheel does not turn"

The hour wheel is the wheel that has the hour hand attached to it via a short pipe, so you can not move the hour hand without the hour wheel turning .

Is it posible perhaps that you said "Hour Wheel" , but really meant the Centre Wheel Arbor , which of course goes round in 1 hour .

There are pictures available on the internet showing the names of parts ,and I suggest that you go there to familiarize yourself with the names used . Then you will more easily understand what someone might write about a watch , and more importantly you will not cause confusion by incorectly naming watch parts in anything that you write . .

http://germanwatch.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=techinacl&action=display&thread=2004

Regards

Davycrocket


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## Jewel (Aug 20, 2012)

I appreciate your comments. I do know how watches function, but perhaps didnt explain this bit very well. I did think you overreacted somewhat though, especially as your new to the forum. I hope your up and running now though. I have a feeling your advice and input will become valuable to the groups. Cheers Davy.


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## davycrocket (Mar 19, 2013)

Ok Jewel

Friends then .

Rgds

Davycrocket


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