# New Arrival (Finally!) - Alpha Daytona



## Kutusov

Took this one almost 2 months to get here. Alpha took a long time to ship me this one and then it was stuck 2 weeks on customs to whatever... was then released with no taxes to pay :tongue2:

Not much to say about this one... ST19 movement, which might not be as good as a 3133 but, being a column wheel chrono, it's a lot more smooth to operate. The original bracelet is absolute rubbish and whent strait into a leather strap. Love the silver dial and the look and distortion of the domed acrylic crystal, very retro look and gives it a very serious look of being a much more expensive watch.

Rushed pictures...


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## Kutusov

:russian: :russian:


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## Vaurien

Interesting! :king:

Alpha watches are listening at west people liking, I think :yes:


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## William_Wilson

So , is it totally awesome or what? 

Later,

William


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## martinzx

Hey Renato,

That took some time to arrive, good news ref import tax 

Is it a glass or ss backcase?

The ST19 is a great movement & pushers are very light

Enjoy!

Cheers Martin


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## Dazzer

Nice watch, worth the wait.

Happy wearing !


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## miroman

Kutusov said:


> ... ST19 movement, which might not be as good as a 3133 but...


I'm curious what make You think so?

No doubt, 3133 is a very good movement, but what I've red about ST19 with all it's complications, is that it's "watchmaker's nightmare", because it doesn't break, You can't make money from repairing . I have three watches with ST19 (one ST1906 and two ST1908), I use to wear two of them constantly (of course not both at the same time  ) for about 8 months, and i really had no problems with none of them.

Accidental problems are reported mainly with the watches, i.e. pushers, crowns, case, etc. But the movement is absolutely robust.

And about the watch - this Alpha looks stunning, especially with this strap. Congratulations, I'm sure You'll be very satisfied with it.

Regards, Miro.


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## stdenev

Really nice watch. Looks very good on this strap.

Congratulations and Happy wearing !


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## Kutusov

Vaurien said:


> Interesting! :king:
> 
> Alpha watches are listening at west people liking, I think :yes:


I think they always did, almost all, if not all their watches are a very close copy of some western watch. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that half the watches that make leave the factory unbranded just to be stamped with a fake logo somewhere else.

When I joined the forum there was a thread about "affordable" Rolex Submariners-alikes and it was the first time I've heard of Aplha. The conclusion was that closest Rolex clone was the Alpha. They are borderline homages!



William_Wilson said:


> So , is it totally awesome or what?
> 
> Later,
> 
> William


Totally, dude!! It's like... man!! Totally gansta!! :new_russian: 








martinzx said:


> Hey Renato,
> 
> That took some time to arrive, good news ref import tax
> 
> Is it a glass or ss backcase?
> 
> The ST19 is a great movement & pushers are very light
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> Cheers Martin


Cheers Martin! It's the steel back. The glass back was just 10 bucks more but I really don't like display casebacks all that much. It's a complitly sterile caseback, what makes me suspect what I said to Anna... you just need to stamp a crown on it and all the other stuff :huh:



miroman said:


> I'm curious what make You think so?
> 
> No doubt, 3133 is a very good movement, but what I've red about ST19 with all it's complications, is that it's "watchmaker's nightmare", because it doesn't break, You can't make money from repairing . I have three watches with ST19 (one ST1906 and two ST1908), I use to wear two of them constantly (of course not both at the same time  ) for about 8 months, and i really had no problems with none of them.
> 
> Accidental problems are reported mainly with the watches, i.e. pushers, crowns, case, etc. But the movement is absolutely robust.


I know the ST19 is a great movement, it would make a very good replacement for the now gone 3133. But the Russian movement is better made, has a higher bit-rate, it's more heavily jeweled, etc. The ST19 is basically a Venus 175, which is very good, but the 3133 is an upgraded and improved Valjoux 7734.

Here's a couple of very good links to what I mean:

ST19: http://www.tz-uk.com...hp?f=25&t=64530

Poljot 3133: http://www.tz-uk.com...hp?f=25&t=64167

Don't get me wrong, I think both are excellent movements, I just regard the 3133 as the better one.

As to the other members, thanks guys!!


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## Chascomm

I don't doubt your assessment regarding the durability of the 3133 as it was built to be tough. It was after all purpose-built for military aerospace use.

But regarding beat-rate, both movements are 21,600bph. One of the changes made in converting the vintage ST3 to the modern ST19 was to increase the beat rate; much like what Poljot did to the 7730 to make the 3133, only Sea-Gull achieved it with less reduction to the balance wheel diameter. Both should deliver excellent time-keeping.

I'd say the 3133 is the choice when you want a mechanical chronograph but intend subjecting it to a severe flogging, but the ST19 is the one you choose for the refinement of the chronograph action. I can honestly say I've never tried a 3133 (or 7750 for that matter) with a better pusher action than the ST19.


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## Kutusov

Oh, your right! I thought it was a non-modified Venus 175, so 18000 bph!

The pushers are a lot smother than on the 3133, the column wheel architecture makes all the difference there. The 3133 is much rougher and the feel is that everything snaps. I still like it better though, probably something emotional rather than rational... :russian:

Like I said, I think it would be a great candidate to replace the 3133 anyway, if no one else picks its production up. It's a very good movement and much more affordable than the Valjoux that Volmax seems to be favoring at the moment. Maybe they are trying to be bought by the Swiss as they seem to think that increasingly expensive watches is the way to go. I'm not seeing them returning to a more Poljot-like philosophy. But I guess it's a good bet that some smaller Russian brand is going to adopt the Chinese movement sooner or later (2 years tops).

Well, still wearing the Alpha and loving it. The way it reflects the light on the domed crystal, silver dial and subdials is a pretty amazing thing to look at. At these prices, there really is no better option for a 3 eyed Panda chrono that doesn't brake the bank. Well happy! :thumbup:

BTW, doesn't the ST-19 also has an Airforce pedigree? I though the Venus 175 tools and machines were bought by the Chinese to produce an Airforce chronograph, the Seagull 1963...


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## Chascomm

Kutusov said:


> BTW, doesn't the ST-19 also has an Airforce pedigree? I though the Venus 175 tools and machines were bought by the Chinese to produce an Airforce chronograph, the Seagull 1963...


Oh it's got pedigree alright. That's why I laugh whenever some Germasian/Swinese company try to sell a watch with the ST19 movement with some bogus heritage when the true story is actually more impressive.

But the difference is that for Project 304, the Chinese essentially took the stock Venus 175 and apart from a couple of extra jewels, don't seem to have adapted the design much to produce the ST3 for the Chinese airforce. (There was a single-button model that was prototyped but never entered production) When Sea-Gull resurrected the design as the ST19 they modified the escapement and added another couple of jewels, and probably re-engineered a few bits to better suit modern manufacturing practices. More modification was done to make the modern comercial version than for the older military version.

I guess you could compare the Venus 175 to Tianjin ST3 conversion to the adaptation of the Venus 150 design to the Strela 3017.

By contrast, when Poljot picked up the Valjoux 7730, they modified the escapement, added several jewels, beefed-up some plates and designed their own calendar mechanism, and all of that was done specifically towards its use as official military equipment.


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## miroman

Kutusov said:


> I know the ST19 is a great movement, it would make a very good replacement for the now gone 3133. But the Russian movement is better made, has a higher bit-rate, it's more heavily jeweled, etc. The ST19 is basically a Venus 175, which is very good, but the 3133 is an upgraded and improved Valjoux 7734.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I think both are excellent movements, I just regard the 3133 as the better one.
> 
> As to the other members, thanks guys!!


It's OK, let's not make this thread 'which is better' . They are different architecture. I like the look of the movement more of ST19 than of 3133, but "ÐÐ° Ð²ÐºÑƒÑ Ð¸ Ð½Ð° Ñ†Ð²ÐµÑ‚ Ñ‚Ð¾Ð²Ð°Ñ€Ð¸Ñ‰Ð° Ð½ÐµÑ‚" ("there are no friends in taste and color"). Both are excellent movements.

Even more, in modern watches the main attention is paid to the look, details and finish; and much less to the movement. Watches became more a jewlery but not a time-keeping device.

Of course, it's better if withing a good-looking watch the heart beating is such good.

I think this Alpha is just that - excellent look and excellent movement.

Regards, Miro.


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## William_Wilson

This sucks!

As soon as I saw the thread, I went to the Alpha site and saw how cheap they were. That started me seriously thinking about getting one. I did some searching and that led me to the Sea-Gull 1963 reissue.

The 1963 reissue isn't cheap at all. This blows! :lol:

Later,

William


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## mach 0.0013137

William_Wilson said:


> This sucks!
> 
> As soon as I saw the thread, I went to the Alpha site and saw how cheap they were. That started me seriously thinking about getting one. I did some searching and that led me to the Sea-Gull 1963 reissue.
> 
> The 1963 reissue isn't cheap at all. This blows! :lol:
> 
> Later,
> 
> William


But they`re worth it B)

BTW, have you done a search on ebay William? There`s a couple of `63s in America, one possibly owned by a relative of yours :wink2:


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## mach 0.0013137

Kutusov said:


> Took this one almost 2 months to get here. Alpha took a long time to ship me this one and then it was stuck 2 weeks on customs to whatever... was then released with no taxes to pay :tongue2:
> 
> Not much to say about this one... ST19 movement, which might not be as good as a 3133 but, being a column wheel chrono, it's a lot more smooth to operate. The original bracelet is absolute rubbish and whent strait into a leather strap. Love the silver dial and the look and distortion of the domed acrylic crystal, very retro look and gives it a very serious look of being a much more expensive watch.
> 
> Rushed pictures...


Very nice* B)

*well apart from the leather strap obviously :yucky: :lol:


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## William_Wilson

mach 0.0013137 said:


> ]
> 
> But they`re worth it B)
> 
> BTW, have you done a search on ebay William? There`s a couple of `63s in America, one possibly owned by a relative of yours :wink2:


Yes, I've seen that one. :lol:

Later,

William


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## bowie

great looking watch and nice pictures.

bowie


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## Kutusov

miroman said:


> It's OK, let's not make this thread 'which is better' . They are different architecture. I like the look of the movement more of ST19 than of 3133, but "ÐÐ° Ð²ÐºÑƒÑ Ð¸ Ð½Ð° Ñ†Ð²ÐµÑ‚ Ñ‚Ð¾Ð²Ð°Ñ€Ð¸Ñ‰Ð° Ð½ÐµÑ‚" ("there are no friends in taste and color"). Both are excellent movements.
> 
> Even more, in modern watches the main attention is paid to the look, details and finish; and much less to the movement. Watches became more a jewlery but not a time-keeping device.


Thanks for that, for a minute there I was thinking "Wait... it's almost like I'm saying my watch is rubbish... shouldn't this be the other way around?" It usually is in watch forums  . I have another one under my sights, they have a lovely tank chrono with a tuning fork quartz movement cheap as chips! I never owned an electric, so I might pull the trigger on this one.

Question below (on the reply to Will) that you might know the answer

[quote name

='William_Wilson' timestamp='1329228567' post='733106']

This sucks!

As soon as I saw the thread, I went to the Alpha site and saw how cheap they were. That started me seriously thinking about getting one. I did some searching and that led me to the Sea-Gull 1963 reissue.

The 1963 reissue isn't cheap at all. This blows! :lol:


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## AlexC1981

That's one very handsome watch. I'm tempted!


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## mach 0.0013137

Kutusov said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very nice* B)
> 
> *well apart from the leather strap obviously :yucky: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Nha, the strap is the best part... oh, I love the smell of dead cowhides in morning...
Click to expand...

Renato, you`re a very sick man







:lol:


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## William_Wilson

Kutusov said:


> Those are much more expensive... there was a guy selling them over at the Netherlands for â‚¬200 but they're sold out now....
> 
> BTW, is the movement in those the same used by Alpha? What I mean is, are both built by the same guys? I'm asking this because we know there are a lot of clones of clones of clones of good movements that turn out not to be so good because the way they are built. When Parnis say it's an Asian Seagull something, it means it's not a Seagull at all, or it's made by leftovers from the Seagull factory... that may be a very good reason why the 1963 is so expensive.


When I looked up the Alphas I did a search for the chrono movements, and found this list:

*ST19* â€" Hand-winding chronograph developed from Venus 175. Seven different variants being produced:


ST1901: 2 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3

ST1902: 3 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, 12 h register at 6 that mirrors the time-keeping hour hand

ST1903: 3 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, 24 h register at 6 that is not affiliated with the chronograph function

ST1904: unused model number, possibly being reserved for an automatic winding or true 3 register chronograph version

ST1905: 2 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, decentral power reserve at 4:30

ST1906: 2 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, decentral power reserve at 6

ST1907: 2 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, central power reserve indicator

ST1908: 4 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, date at 12, real moon phase at

ST1940: 2 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, automatic


Perhaps some of the differences in price has to do with how well they pay the children who put them together. I'll let you know if there's a difference when my stupid Sea-Gull arrives from the Netherlands. 

BTW with the difference in currency right now, it wasn't that much more then the Alpha. Now I wait, hoping it shows up.

Oh, hold on to that Alphtona bracelet, I may need it for the Sea-Gull. :lol:

Later,

William


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## Kutusov

William_Wilson said:


> Oh, hold on to that Alphtona bracelet, I may need it for the Sea-Gull. :lol:
> 
> Later,
> 
> William


If you need it, just ask! It's yours, free of charge! :yes:


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## William_Wilson

Kutusov said:


> William_Wilson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, hold on to that Alphtona bracelet, I may need it for the Sea-Gull. :lol:
> 
> Later,
> 
> William
> 
> 
> 
> If you need it, just ask! It's yours, free of charge! :yes:
Click to expand...

Thanks. I was thinking about it and realised it's likely a 20mm bracelet. The Sea-Gull is 18mm. I should have thought of that before. :lol:

Later,

William


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## Kutusov

Yeap, it's a 20mm and it's rubbish...

I would go with one of Roy's brown 2p nylons, that watch is usually seen on olive green NATOs but I think it doesn't suit it at all.... blue and green... :yucky:

If you want to go with steet, what about this retro looking mesh? 18mm and cheap...


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## miroman

There should be some very big difference in QC, I have no explanation why Seagull m199s is so expencive now (over USD1000), maybe because it was stoped from production?.

Here are my two chronos with ST1906 and ST1908, made by English watch company -> http://www.thewatchf...showtopic=72858

They both work excellent and keep very good time (< 10 sec./day). But in the bootleg You can see RRP of ~ GBP2500  !!!

Maybe You're right about the leftovers...

Regards, Miro.



William_Wilson said:


> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those are much more expensive... there was a guy selling them over at the Netherlands for â‚¬200 but they're sold out now....
> 
> BTW, is the movement in those the same used by Alpha? What I mean is, are both built by the same guys? I'm asking this because we know there are a lot of clones of clones of clones of good movements that turn out not to be so good because the way they are built. When Parnis say it's an Asian Seagull something, it means it's not a Seagull at all, or it's made by leftovers from the Seagull factory... that may be a very good reason why the 1963 is so expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> When I looked up the Alphas I did a search for the chrono movements, and found this list:
> 
> *ST19* â€" Hand-winding chronograph developed from Venus 175. Seven different variants being produced:
> 
> 
> ST1901: 2 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3
> 
> ST1902: 3 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, 12 h register at 6 that mirrors the time-keeping hour hand
> 
> ST1903: 3 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, 24 h register at 6 that is not affiliated with the chronograph function
> 
> ST1904: unused model number, possibly being reserved for an automatic winding or true 3 register chronograph version
> 
> ST1905: 2 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, decentral power reserve at 4:30
> 
> ST1906: 2 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, decentral power reserve at 6
> 
> ST1907: 2 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, central power reserve indicator
> 
> ST1908: 4 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, date at 12, real moon phase at 6
> 
> ST1940: 2 register, small seconds at 9, 30 min counter at 3, automatic
> 
> 
> Perhaps some of the differences in price has to do with how well they pay the children who put them together. I'll let you know if there's a difference when my stupid Sea-Gull arrives from the Netherlands.
> 
> BTW with the difference in currency right now, it wasn't that much more then the Alpha. Now I wait, hoping it shows up.
> 
> Oh, hold on to that Alphtona bracelet, I may need it for the Sea-Gull. :lol:
> 
> Later,
> 
> William
Click to expand...


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## William_Wilson

I'd like to see some closer images of the hands on the Alphtona. I haven't been able to get a good sense of how pointy they are from your pictures, or the photos on Alpha's site. Damn my inferior eyesight. :lol:

Later,

William


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## Kutusov

William_Wilson said:


> I haven't been able to get a good sense of how pointy they are


They aren't. Here's a few shots of that (sorry for lint, fingerprints, etc) :




























Dang it... now that I took this pictures for you, I've noticed the imperfection on the printing of last A on Alpha... Can't be seen with the naked eye and my vision is 20/20 (after Lasik... :sweatdrop: )


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## yddraig

I love this watch, fallen head over for it

:thumbup:


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## AlbertaTime

William_Wilson said:


> Perhaps some of the differences in price has to do with how well they pay the children who put them together.


Here's a few pics I took last October of the "children" putting the watches together at the Sea-Gull factory in Tianjin. (more photos at the link)





































and one of my shots of the factory...


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## Vaurien

Thank you, alberta, for sharing.

It's interesting! :yes:


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## miroman

AlbertaTime said:


> ...and one of my shots of the factory...


You are a lucky man, Ron. Wish I could afford such journey...


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## William_Wilson

AlbertaTime said:


> William_Wilson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps some of the differences in price has to do with how well they pay the children who put them together.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a few pics I took last October of the "children" putting the watches together at the Sea-Gull factory in Tianjin. (more photos at the link)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and one of my shots of the factory...
Click to expand...

You're illustrating my point quite well with those photos. Seagull is a very old and established, by China's standards, compared to those noname outfits that slap together knock-offs for the Western market. 

Later,

William


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## zoki

very nice to see it from inside

thanks


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## AlbertaTime

miroman said:


> You are a lucky man, Ron. Wish I could afford such journey...


I wish I could afford it, too


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## Kutusov

There's another thing that might explain the differences of price between the Alpha and the 1963s. Roland Kemmner has some watches with a Seagull movement but they are mention as Seagull Grade I. I've asked him what is that and it Grade I means the movement is made by Seagull in that factory, by those people. Other grades mean that, at least, the movement is made in some other factory that has been subcontracted to assemble movements.

There are 3 grades that I know of but I don't know what they mean. Anyway, I bet the 1963 is a grade I watch and the Alpha probably isn't...


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