# Watch Running Fast



## gregor (Nov 5, 2003)

From one day to the other my watch, a poljot shturmanski, is gaining about 5 minutes every hour.

also the stopwatch runs about 5 secs fast...

I cant think of a reason..I didnt drop it, nor did I drop myself with the watch on me...

maybe it knows I am looking for a knew watch????

I think I have no other option then to bring it to a watch maker....

any ideas what may have caused this sudden change of speed?

Was I too close to the BBQ yesterday?








gregor


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Magnetism for sure.


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## gregor (Nov 5, 2003)

eh..

what does that mean?









Gregor

and how to get rid of it?


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

It means that some part of the watch is magnetised and is affecting the balance making it swing faster.


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## gregor (Nov 5, 2003)

Thanks Roy for the quick reply!

how serious is it?

is it terminal? or can it be fixed?

gregor


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

It just needs demagnetising.


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## gregor (Nov 5, 2003)

Roy...

you are talking to a very not technical person....









the way you say:



> It just needs demagnetising.


 makes it sound simple.









how do I get it demagnetised?

(or am I now asking too much professional knowledge for free







)

thanks,

Gregor


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

If you take it to a watch repairer then they will be able to sort it out.


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## gregor (Nov 5, 2003)

Thanks Roy!









Just googled a bit on the topic and learned something!

okay,

let's see a watchdoctor!

Gregor


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Maplins do a demagnetiser. It essentially puts the object is a strong alternating field to remove magnetisation. The hairspring itself may be magnetised depending on the material it is made of. The best watches are made from non magnetic materials. I had a magnetised Poljot once, and the time keeping was all over the place, and it was impossible to regulate it. Very frustrating situation.

Any decent electronics lab should be able to demagnetise the watch for you, but I would be unhappy with any watch once it had been magnetised, as it could happen again. Just my opinion....you understand!!


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Talking of demagnetising, I have an old tape-head demagnetiser (for degmagnetising hi-fi cassette tape deck heads) Would that work on magnetised watches?


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

rhaythorne said:


> Talking of demagnetising, I have an old tape-head demagnetiser (for degmagnetising hi-fi cassette tape deck heads) Would that work on magnetised watches?


 It might do,

Usually the balance is removed and cleaned also, well it is if I'm doing it.


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## AlexR (May 11, 2003)

Roy removes the balance,because when magnetized all sorts of crap sticks to the balance(Roy's words







)

He worked on an Elgin of mine that had become magnetized,twice


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

OK OK ... seeing as I had magnetic spring bars on my Shturmanskie (don't ask!!) what makes a perfectly healthy watch suddenly become magnetic?


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

I wish I knew.

I am thinking that it could be mobile phones because it is happening more and more.

I am going to test this theory as soon as I get time.

Unless someone knows differently ?


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Roy said:


> I am thinking that it could be mobile phones because it is happening more and more.


 That would be quite scary if true


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Yep,

Try putting a mobile phone near a compass and you will see why I think this.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

But would a watch spend enough time "near" a mobile phone in order for such an effect to occur? If so, the majority of watches magnetised by mobile phones would be owned by left-handed people (like me) as watches are generally worn on the left wrist and a left-hander will generally use a mobile in their left hand.

If some form of modern technology is to blame I'd bet on the CRT computer monitor. Generally these are sited only a few inches away from the keyboard on which the person is typing and thus only a few inches away from the person's watch (for at least 8 hours per day and probably more). Try putting a compass near a CRT monitor (or a TV)


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

I do not have the answers, I wish I did.

I did once think it was monitors but was assured this was not the case by our scientist members.

It is happening a lot more than it used to.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

There is a small but strong permanent magnet for the internal speaker of a mobile phone. The opreation of the phone would not affect a watch. You would have to leave a watch lying on a phone for some time for the watch to be subjected to a field strong enough to magnetise it, and in any case, a good quality Swiss watch made to be anti magnetic is highly unlikely to be magnetised. I'm not so confident however, with the anti magnetic properties of some of the cheaper watch movements.

I would accept that a mobile phone should not be kept close up to a mobile phone such as in a pocket. I'd be very surprised that left handed use of a phone with a watch on the left wrist would be a problem, but if in doubt, keep them apart more.

A compass needle is subjected to the magnetism of the Earth, so the movemnent of such a needle is not proof that a field will be strong enough to affect a watch


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## gregor (Nov 5, 2003)

hm...

In my case it's probably not the phone.

I wear my watch left and phone with my right hand.

also I cant think of only one thing that could have magnetised my watch:

Yesterday morning I was at a friends place, she has a large "metal kitchen table" that functions as a table and a sink at the same time.

Maybe there was something very magnetic?

but that wouldnt explane why here Tag Heur still runs smootly...or are TH demagnetised watches?

Gregorwiththefastwatch


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

You really need to find out if it is definetly magnetised first.

Do you not have a compass to test it with ?


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## gregor (Nov 5, 2003)

I am on my search for a compass right now...

(I hope I still have one)

Gregor


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

interestingly I am a right wrister and use my mobile with my right hand, also when I take my watch off at work it invariably goes in the same pocket as my mobile. My seiko is running fine so I don't think it's phones.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

I don't know what it is but it is happening too much.

Maybe it's just O2 phones ?


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

If you think about it everybody comes into contact with magnetic fields all the time these days, every electrical speaker or motor has a magnet. Just a lot more chance of it happening. I come into contact with alternators and starter motors daily and haven't had a problem.....yet!


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## seiko6139 (Aug 25, 2003)

I would doubt very much that mobile phones are to blame. An RF signal would not magnetise anything but the speakers do have fairly powerful manets and some flip phones contain powerful magnets to actuate the "hall effect" device which "tells" the phone when the flip is open or closed.

Television sets cotnain a very powerful de-gauss coil which demagnetises the shadow mask in the tube.If a television didn't have this the colour purity would be very poor.You can hear this working when you switch the television on,it gives off a loud buzz during the first few milliseconds after switch on.

You could utilise this,it does work,I've tried it! I wouldn't recommend anyone else does unless they are electrically competent.That's why I haven't mentioned the exact location of the de-gauss coil.

Ian


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## AlexR (May 11, 2003)

Sort of subject change









PG I need some help.Are you given training on what to do with vehicle alarms on breakdowns?

Carry on everyone with the magnetism thread


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

I'll probably regret this but yes Alex we are given a broad outline training and have access to some info but we don't go in too deep. If we can't get round it quickly we tow it in. PM I might be able to help. (It's not on the bike is it?







).


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

I had a go at demagnetizing an old watch with a tape head demagnetizer. Before I tried it a needle stuck to the bridge.









It's much better but still runs very fast. Time for another go.


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## gregor (Nov 5, 2003)

No compas found yet, but I am going after one!

I guess the needle is supposed to point at the watch now, since it is magnetised?











> Any decent electronics lab should be able to demagnetise the watch for you, but I would be unhappy with any watch once it had been magnetised, as it could happen again. Just my opinion....you understand!!


Griff, that I didn't understand...apperently most of the mechanical watches can be magnetised by accident....some fear the use of a mobile phone alone can do it...

so the chance that it happens with your watch is always there, also when it hasn't been magnetised before

OR......are the chances of magnetising bigger when it has happened before with a watch???

Gregorwiththefastrunningpoljot


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

seiko6139 said:


> I would doubt very much that mobile phones are to blame. An RF signal would not magnetise anything but the speakers do have fairly powerful manets and some flip phones contain powerful magnets to actuate the "hall effect" device which "tells" the phone when the flip is open or closed.
> 
> Television sets cotnain a very powerful de-gauss coil which demagnetises the shadow mask in the tube.If a television didn't have this the colour purity would be very poor.You can hear this working when you switch the television on,it gives off a loud buzz during the first few milliseconds after switch on.
> 
> ...


 Spot on.........agree 100%


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

gregor said:


> > Any decent electronics lab should be able to demagnetise the watch for you, but I would be unhappy with any watch once it had been magnetised, as it could happen again. Just my opinion....you understand!!Â
> 
> 
> Griff, that I didn't understand...apperently most of the mechanical watches can be magnetised by accident....some fear the use of a mobile phone alone can do it...
> ...


Simple.................if a particular watch is magnetised once, maybe because it does not have the anti magnetic qualities of a good Swiss watch, then it is likely to happen again. Agree with Pg's comments also!!

I'm utterly confident that none of my Swiss watches, or Seiko's, will be magnetised by my mobile phone!!


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Quality of watch has nothing to do with it.

Nearly all watches can be easily magnetised no matter of quality.

Magnetised spring bars can and do make watches gain time.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

They must be super magnetised spring bars then.

I am of the opinion that some watch movements have better quality materials than some cheaper ones, and therefore greater anti magnetic properties through use of better materials in hair springs, balance shafts etc.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

It's the springs in the spring bars that get magnetised.

Some hairsprings have antimagnetic properties but not many and only in very expensive watches.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Roy said:



> Some hairsprings have antimagnetic properties but not many and only in very expensive watches.


 Does this include the SMP?


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

I remember reading a post on TZUK where a speedbird had become mag'd and that has an eta movement so I don't think quality makes a jot of difference. Just a modern unexplained mystery I guess.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

This, from the Oris site:-

Mechanical Watches from A to Z

[ A | B | C | D | E | F | G | H - P | Q - Z ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A

A/h; vibrations of the balance per hour. Two vibrations make the well-known tick-tock sound of the mechanical watch, known as one oscillation.

Alarm; Watch fitted with a ringing mechanism that is automatically released at the required time.

Amplitude (Vibration); Angle of oscillation for the balance.

*Antimagnetic watches; Watches not, or hardly, affected by magnetic fields. For the balance springs of the balance non-magnetic nickel alloys are used.*

Automat, Automatic; Synonym for a watch with automatic winding. The movement of your wrist makes the rotor (oscillating weight) turn, thereby winding the mainspring of the watch movement.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

B

Balance spring; The hairspring and the balance form the oscillating system. *The balance spring of an Ulysse Nardin watch consists of a thin and flat wire made of nivarox*


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Even if the hairspring is not magnetised the balance can still be affected by other parts been magnetised.









Anyway Gregor is your watch magnetised ? I need to know,


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## gregor (Nov 5, 2003)

> Anyway Gregor is your watch magnetised ? I need to know,


Roy I didnt have the time yet to find out...

Hopefully tomorrow I have time to get a compass and/or go to a watch maker...

Meanwhile I walk around with a very cheap plastic mwc watch....









but, for the record, a magnetised watch that is demagnetised again, still has the same quality?

(I cant't think of any reason why it could be less good)

Gregor


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

gregor said:


> but, for the record, a magnetised watch that is demagnetised again, still has the same quality?
> 
> (I cant't think of any reason why it could be less good)


There is no reason why it would be any lesser quality,


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

H'mmmm..........some of this is really interesting..........maybe some people have a magnetic personality!!!


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## gregor (Nov 5, 2003)

Ok...

I did the compass test...but...

since the metal bracelet is on the watch again, (instead of the black leather)...

it is pretty hard to tell:

the compass for sure reacts to the bracelet, but hardly to the watch...

I don't have the tool the get the bracelet off to to a better test....

but..the saga continues:

the watch is running perfectly on time now.......









Gregor


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## AlexR (May 11, 2003)

A magnetic bracelet is not going to help it one little bit


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)




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## gregor (Nov 5, 2003)

> A magnetic bracelet is not going to help it one little bit


I think a compas reacts to anything metal...

or am I wrong?









Gregor

ps.

watch still running very much on time....


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)




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## AlexR (May 11, 2003)

If it just reacted to metal,then it would be of no use for finding out if the watch itself was manetic,due to the watch being made of metal









If the needle is moving toward the bracelet,then I would think it would be the bracelet that is magnetic,and this will affect the watch,I think.

Somebody,please correct me on this,if I am wrong


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## gregor (Nov 5, 2003)

Well..like I said before..I am everything but technical....









so I think you could be right Alex...

I'll have to catch up on this later....now I am off camping









I'll keep you informed!








gregor


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Not all stainless steel is magnetic as I recall .... somthing to do with the amount of chromium and nickel in the alloy ... I dont know if watch cases are made of this though


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Some stainless is magnetic, and the ones that are generally have a higher carbon content.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

AlexR said:


> If it just reacted to metal,then it would be of no use for finding out if the watch itself was manetic,due to the watch being made of metal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 The point is, a compass needle is magnetised(bit like a magnet itself), therefore, if you place a metal object near to it that can be magnetised, such as steel or a higher carbon content stainless, the needle will be attracted to it.

Many expanders with spring clips in them will deviate a compass needle, but that bracelet is highly unlikely to magnetise your anti magnetic watch. If a piece of metal causes a powerful and strong shift of the compass needle with the *same **vigour* as a magnet, then that *would* suggest the item in itself *is *magnetised.


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## gregor (Nov 5, 2003)

Hi!

back from camping!

and the poljot is on the wrist again and it hasnt gaint or lost a minute since yesterday evening...









dont know what is going on, but if it stays like this it's fine with me!









Gregor


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## raketakat (Sep 24, 2003)

Perhaps you've been demagnetised by your camping holiday Gregor







.


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## gregor (Nov 5, 2003)

I dont know...could be indeed..I am less stressed..maybe that's it...

anyway..it's still running perfectly well...

it's a mystery...but it has me checking my watch twice as much as before!

so I have double pleasure of my watch









Gregor


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## gregor (Nov 5, 2003)

the poljot seems to be back on track...

it was running 6 seconds a day fast after the camping trip....(wich was quite good!!!)

then it went a little bit slow,

and now it's back to normal with around 10 to 15 secs in 24hours...









But I make sure the bracelet does not touch the watch when I am not wearing it...









Gregor


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