# The Pilot Brand



## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

If you ever went chasing after a Poljot Aviator I, you've probably seen a line of watches branded as "Pilot", the Berkut being the most commonly seen flieger chrono.










The logo and the translation of the original Cyrillic name might mislead some people to believe that this is a Poljot or an Aviator. In Russian Poljot is ÐŸÐ¾Ð»Ñ'Ñ‚, which translate to flight. The Volmax Aviator is also easy to get lost in translation (Ð°Ð²Ð¸Ð°Ñ‚Ð¾Ñ€) mainly (IMHO) because of the lingo of the US army. Air Force has pilots but if you call that to a fly boy from the navy (the guys on aircraft carriers) you'll get punched in the face. They are not pilots but aviators, the difference being that they figure they are elite flyers as no Airforce pilot would be able to land a jet on a tinny moving deck of an aircraft carrier. So the confusion starts right here with the name.

Lampoc pointed out that the Pilot watches were a brand owned by Juri Levemberg over at Germany and I had a tough time believing that so I went after information on this, as to what exactly is the Pilot brand. I've contacted several people who know a lot more than I do and I got a lot of information but also different versions to the story. Mostly, different pieces of the puzzle. So what I'm about to wright is in no way an official, definitive take on this but my impression on how the pieces of the puzzle might fit. I've asked permission to quote some of the sources, others I didn't so I won't do it.

Anyway, the story begins around 2006 with a brand called Pilot Time being made in Moscow in Marksistskaya street, home of the Poljot factory. At the time, several brands were working under the same roof, probably using the same machines and watchmakers. They seem to be different ventures by different groups of people but probably a lot was shared. No definite answer to this. Michele at WUS gives us this list of companies sharing the same Poljot roof (note that this was written in 2006):

"-POLJOT (still existing, but with a much smaller production - many tools and machines have been bought by the other companies)

-VOLMAX (Sturmanskie, Buran, Aviator, Patriot)

-POLJOT TRADE ("Pilot" and "Russian Time" watches)

-MOSCOW CLASSIC (see watch list above)

-DENISSOV (Barracuda, Nautilus, Vodolaz -not the same watch produced by Moscow Classic)

-POLJOT KRONOS (Selena, Elegance, Romanoff)

-POLJOT ELITE (President watches made in gold cases)"

So Pilot Time was a brand from Poljot Trade, now called TD-Poljot. Juri's Pilot watches didn't exist yet and note the difference between Pilot Time and Pilot. Also, every brand above is 100% Russian but Poljot Trade was an exception: some used Miyota and Chinese movements.

Now, JL is a Russian who moved to Germany and started to sell watches through the internet and other dealers. There was no distribution policy from the Russian brands, so business boomed. At a certain point, those Russian brands realized they needed such a distribution policy and someone that could work both internet sellers, retail shops and properly represent their brands in watch fairs. This distribution was given to different companies and non to JL.

So suddenly JL had lost the edge of his business and no longer was the main man, and worst, he was refused by every Russian manufacturer as an exclusive representation on Germany. Other brands refused to provide him with any of their watches altogether. So around 2006 or a little bit earlier, his ebay store started to sell "Russian" watches with no indication of their manufacturer. He kept some of his channels so these watches are not exclusive of his store. But still, the Russian watchmaking industry of the time wasn't in such a bad shape that they wouldn't identify their watches with their logos or names on the dial and/or caseback. You could always trace them to the source in Russia and, most of the times, to the Poljot factory in Moscow. This is all public information by Irina Maier.

What this doesn't mean is that Molnija and Poljot movements weren't stockpiled by some of those many splinter cells and JL is notorious by having a lot of watches with the Molnija 3603, a not very easy to get movement nowadays. Does this means we was putting watches together based on parts and designs of his own? I have no definite answer to this but my guess is Yes. Everything points out to that.

This next link is also my guess but also around 2006 confusion sets in as to what these new watches are and there's lots of discussions on watch forums and a lot of talk about these "Russian" (?) watches showing up at JL ebay shop and at his regular distribution channels. Probably because of that he did create the Pilot brand. Apparently also a brand called Strela but I don't know what this is or what Strela models we are taking about. The 2004 reissued Strela is made by Volmax and the new ones are branded as Sturmanskie but the name of the model is still on the dial as Strela. So my guess is that the Strela brand is all those non-Volmax reissued Strelas with Cyrilic dials and what not and not branded as Poljot, Volmax or Moscow Classic (they have a very similar Strela model but they call it P-7 "cemepka" as in the R7 ICBM rocket).

Anyway, Pilot and Strela (whatever those are) are brands owned by Juri Levemberg and are designed by him. Where are they made? I'm not sure, some say they are made in Poland but they are probably assembled in Germany, just like Poljot International. What are they made of? That's the biggest question. My guess is some cases are leftovers from all those companies and are ex-Poljot made. Same thing with Russian calibres. It has been pointed out by some that some of these watches have old 3133s and 3603s, so I guess you can call them NOS movements. The problem I see with this is that they are not sold as such.

On the other hand, and since Maktime grabbed the production of the 31xx calibres, they do sell them to JL. So there are some Pilots with new 31xx Maktime movements in there. It has also been pointed out by some people that some of those watches had Chinese movements and Miyotas, so here we go again with the same mess as Poljot-Trade. There is no consistency to the Pilot brand, at least at first. And we can't tell if a Pilot watch is new or a leftover from the starting times.

So what can we make of this? The picture I'm seeing is that Pilot watches came out of a necessity by JL to keep his business. Ok, but they are not Russian Made. They are half Russian, half German. No problem in that, in fact Poljot International and Alexander Shorokhov does that too and they have beautiful, top quality watches. The difference I see here is that Poljot International clearly states what their watches are, what movements each model has and have "Made in Germany" on the dial. Pilot watches remain partly a mystery because of all the inconsistencies found.

That's all I could find and I think that's all you ever get out of this.

Over and out.


----------



## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Oh, and I do like some of the Pilot watches: the PVD Berkut and the Sokol are beautiful watches :man_in_love:


----------



## Lampoc (Oct 31, 2010)

Thanks Kutusov, that made extremely interesting reading. Excellent post and investigative skill mate! :thumbsup:


----------



## taffyman (Apr 26, 2011)

very interesting reading thank you .

HAYDN


----------



## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Oh man, I posted this on the General section? I meant to do it in the Russian section... can a mode please move it? Sooorryyyy!!! :bag:


----------



## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

A mod... not a mode...  ...hangover day...


----------



## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Kutusov said:


> A mod... not a mode...  ...hangover day...


Cruel Intentions - Bittersweet symphony

I can't change

I can't change

I can't change

But I'm here in my mode

I am here in my mode

And I'm a million different people from one day to the next

I can't change my mode no, no, no, no, no

:lol:

Later,

William


----------



## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

This isn't entirely relevant, but... a Russian friend of mine looked at my ÐœÐ°ÐºÑ‚Ð°Ð¹Ð¼ (Maktime) and said it must be a modern watch. The reason being, the word "ÐœÐ°ÐºÑ‚Ð°Ð¹Ð¼" is a made up nonsense word, the sort of thing Russian companies are doing to try and sell to the western world.

Later,

William


----------



## martinzx (Aug 29, 2010)

Great info 'R'

I have tried this research before & gave up, with a headache

....................allegedly your Honour ...........lol









cheers martin :thumbsup:


----------



## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

William_Wilson said:


> Cruel Intentions - Bittersweet symphony
> 
> I can't change
> 
> ...


  



William_Wilson said:


> This isn't entirely relevant, but... a Russian friend of mine looked at my ÐœÐ°ÐºÑ‚Ð°Ð¹Ð¼ (Maktime) and said it must be a modern watch. The reason being, the word "ÐœÐ°ÐºÑ‚Ð°Ð¹Ð¼" is a made up nonsense word, the sort of thing Russian companies are doing to try and sell to the western world.


Oh, I forgot something which is a bit scary... one of the long established sellers of Russian watches told me Maktime is giving up production of the 31xx calibers. It's not yet clear if someone else is going to buy the production rights, if not, that's it for the Russian industry. Volmax's catalogue for example relies almost exclusively on these movements and ETA movements, the last no longer being sold too.

I find it hard to believe that no one is going to pick up the production of the 31xx but it might be a big game changer. If Volmax goes ahead and gets them, they define the policies to whom they sell them too. So things are going to get interesting in the near future.



martinzx said:


> Great info 'R'
> 
> I have tried this research before & gave up, with a headache
> 
> ...


Even dealers and people on the business, with direct contacts to the factories and people on Moscow don't have the whole picture!


----------



## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Well, sad update... just got an email from a reliable source... Maktime is not going to stop production of the 31xx, it has already stopped!! :shocking:


----------



## AlexC1981 (Jul 26, 2009)

Oh no! This is just crazy.


----------



## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Kutusov said:


> Well, sad update... just got an email from a reliable source... Maktime is not going to stop production of the 31xx, it has already stopped!! :shocking:


OK, what's the plan? The 3133 was the backbone of the high end cheap watch business (makes sense if you don't think too much). All I can see them doing is clearing out the factory and turning the space into a strip joint for rich foreigners.

Later,

William


----------



## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

William_Wilson said:


> OK, what's the plan? The 3133 was the backbone of the high end cheap watch business (makes sense if you don't think too much). All I can see them doing is clearing out the factory and turning the space into a strip joint for rich foreigners.


Well, that certainly sounds like fun! Screw the watches, bring forth the ladies, champagne, caviar and foreign dollars!! 

I've emailed them to confirm this news anyway. More to follow...


----------



## Pip-Pip (Sep 28, 2011)

Hi, Don't know a lot about russian watches but this made for some interesting reading. I'm really getting into 24hr watches and there seems to be a lot from Russia and the old eastern bloc countries.


----------



## louiswu (May 16, 2009)

Wouldn't the Seagull ST19 be a viable alternative, if 3133's will be unavailable?

Also, since ETA are closing their doors to all non-Swatch buyers i'd expect alternatives to spring up pretty rapidly.

I believe Sellita are already churning out 2824 clones.

Would it be preferable for Russian brands to use chinese and\or swiss alternatives, rather than not produce watches at all?

I guess it's just the chrono's in doubt, if Volmax are already using swiss movements.


----------



## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Pip-Pip said:


> Hi, Don't know a lot about russian watches but this made for some interesting reading. I'm really getting into 24hr watches and there seems to be a lot from Russia and the old eastern bloc countries.


There are! I'm not sure what's the reason for that, if there is any, but being a country with an immense area that is already Arctic probably helps.



louiswu said:


> Wouldn't the Seagull ST19 be a viable alternative, if 3133's will be unavailable?
> 
> Also, since ETA are closing their doors to all non-Swatch buyers i'd expect alternatives to spring up pretty rapidly.
> 
> ...


Yes, the ST-19 is very close to the 3133 and it's an excellent movement. It is in fact a whole together Swiss movement without any tweaking from the Chinese. Terrific movement if it comes from Sea-Gull, probably crappy if it comes from some other Chinese source that makes all the clones out of parts and leftovers from Sea-Gull.

Volmax uses Swiss movements only for the autos (chronos especially but there has been other models with non chrono Swiss ETAs) but that's pretty much over because those come from ETA also.

Anyway, there are alternatives but not Russian made, they'll have to source movements from other places and that's a real shame considering the quality and history of Russian watchmaking. We still don't know if the production of the 31xx is going to be picked up by someone but I'm told it's not looking great...


----------



## Gixer (Dec 29, 2012)

Hi, bit of a thread resurrection here, and my first post although I've dropped by the forum a few times in the past. I found the OP very useful when researching JL and Pilot watches. JL had a watch listed that I liked the look of and was different to anything else I have so I took the plunge and ordered it last weekend after a bit of research on the internet. I was looking at Strela's after a friend showed me some images of them however after loosing out on one on eBay, I stumbled over JL's shop. The watch is dispatched and I'm waiting it's arrival.


----------



## Car313 (Jun 21, 2021)

Update. STRELA and possibly others are selling remaining stock of 3133 and 31681 movements. But they are more starting to use Seagull ST2903 MOVEMENTS . Their mechanicals run quite similar. Almost a continuation.

Maktine: 3133 tools derived from Valjoux 150.

Seagull ST1903 derived from Venus 185.

Both swiss tooling both run quite similar. 3rd register runs asc24 hour military time dial.


----------

