# Can Quartz Be Adjusted For Accuracy



## Griff

Can they be adjusted regarding advancing or retarding, and if so, does anyone know how, and have any pics. or diagrams to show such as an adjusting screw?

My watches are fine...........but I've often wondered this.

Do some have this adjustment and others not?

Is it the more expensive quartz movements that may have this, or certain makes!?









What is the expected gain or loss per month on a good quality quartz movement?


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## Roy

Older quartz movements used to have a trimmer but generaly modern ones do not.


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## Roger

As Roy, correctly said...some have trimmers some dont.

IF yours has a trimmer ( more correctly a variable capacitor) all you need to do is connect the probe of a frequency counter to one side of the crystal, and the probe ground to the case and adjust the trimmer till the counter reads 32768 Hz using at least a 10 second gate setting on the counter.

PS some Seikos have a much higher frequency of operation (some perp calendars etc) Seiko nearly always list it in the specs.

Hope this helps

Roger


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## Griff

Roger said:


> As Roy, correctly said...some have trimmers some dont.
> 
> IF yours has a trimmer ( more correctly a variable capacitor) all you need to do is connect the probe of a frequency counter to one side of the crystal, and the probe ground to the case and adjust the trimmer till the counter reads 32768 Hz using at least a 10 second gate setting on the counter.
> 
> PS some Seikos have a much higher frequency of operation (some perp calendars etc) Seiko nearly always list it in the specs.
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> Roger
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> ←
> ​










....Well.......that's straightforward then!!!









But thanks for the interesting reply


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## Roger

> Well.......that's straightforward then!!!


No...its easy, really, Griff....you COULD try "!hit&miss" but you could be at it for weeks, at least until you hit the "sweet spot"

Roger


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## ollyming

Griff said:


> What is the expected gain or loss per month on a good quality quartz movement?
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No idea if it can be adjusted but my Brietling Chrono Avenger M1 claims +/- 15 seconds per year accuracy.

Cheers, Olly


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## jasonm

Your lucky Olly, all Breitlings are certified cronometers so they should be good


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## ollyming

jasonm said:


> Your lucky Olly, all Breitlings are certified cronometers so they should be good
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What is the chronometer standard for quartz watches? I assume it's different than for mechanical?

Olly


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## Roger

> What is the chronometer standard for quartz watches


The handbook for my Breitling Aerospace quotes:_

Tested for 11 days and nights , 5 positions.

3 temperature 8C, 23C & 38C

Daily variation rate of +/-0.07seconds corresponding to an annual rate +/- 25 secs.

Breitlang rate this one at+/- 15secs/annum

Cheers

Roger


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## JoT

The new Bretiling COSC quartz movements are thermally compensated ... presumbably they have some sort of microchip control ... doesn anyone know how they work?


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## Roger

> presumbably they have some sort of microchip control ... doesn anyone know how they work?


Best guess (based on similar requirements in commercial circuit) would be either the local oscillator would incorperate thermistor (device whose resisitance changes with temp) control. Or possibly the chips on-board capacitors would use both positve AND negative temperature co-efficient devices ( negative temp co-eff divices decrease in value with temp change and positve devices increase with temp change.

Careful choice of a combination of the two balance-out and so negate temp variations.

As I say, just a "best guess"

Roger


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## ErikS

Most GPS recievers are thermally compinsated. I will say that mine will vary quite a bit each day (GPS). You can tell by the amount of time change when the unit aligns. I would say that the clock in them is not very good but the fact that each use they are updated makes the clock no big deal until it is used. Then to work the unit has to be synced with the system which is done automatically.


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## Synchrohow

ErikS said:


> Most GPS recievers are thermally compinsated. I will say that mine will vary quite a bit each day (GPS). You can tell by the amount of time change when the unit aligns. I would say that the clock in them is not very good but the fact that each use they are updated makes the clock no big deal until it is used. Then to work the unit has to be synced with the system which is done automatically.


 Hello all,

My first post. I am not much of a collector but a son of the inventor of the Solar Powered watch,the late Roger W.Riehl.SYNCHRONAR 2100 has some amazing features and functions but noteworthy for this topic it incorporates an adjustment scheme that allows the wearer to advance or retard the accuracy via a built in digital frequency synthesizer or programmable microcircuit synthesizer.This is a very simple digital adjustment made by advancing or retarding the speed # on the watch.Each LED digital increment represents 8 seconds a year.Thus the owner can attain accuracy to + - 4 seconds a year.If you live in Alaska or never wear the watch your speed # would need to be set higher than that of a hot climate or one being worn most of the time.

I realize there are few here that would except this watch as it is a few moving parts type digital,of course most were turned off by LED,s for how they would eat batteries and require pushing a button.But the SYNCHRONAR survived 4 decades without needing to convert to L.C.D. or change it,s physical shape.

Be easy on me guys/gals,I am still sensitive about the loss of my father. Peace


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## DavidH

Hi Synchrohow.

" I realize there are few here that would accept this watch "

You might be surprised









I had a quick look at the Sync 2100. lots of interesting features there., 30 year battery life, Solar, rate adjustment, huge waterproof rating. Certainly thinking outside the box. Things havnt advanced much in the past 25 years.

I like solid state watches. No moving parts, Nothing to wear out. But then not so easily repaired in the unlikely event.

Its a shame there are so few forward thinking quartz watch makers today.


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## Synchrohow

DavidH said:


> Hi Synchrohow.
> 
> " I realize there are few here that would accept this watch "
> 
> You might be surprised
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> 
> I had a quick look at the Sync 2100. lots of interesting features there., 30 year battery life, Solar, rate adjustment, huge waterproof rating. Certainly thinking outside the box. Things havnt advanced much in the past 25 years.
> 
> I like solid state watches. No moving parts, Nothing to wear out. But then not so easily repaired in the unlikely event.
> 
> Its a shame there are so few forward thinking quartz watch makers today.


Hi DavidH,

Yes no one else could match the built in accurracy potential until recent years by using a by chance radio and atomic update signal.I will be the first to admit they did not all go 30 years or more,but the ones that did are in a seperate class by themselves.A few were sold at ebay and one donated to a muesum also still working with it,s original batteries and seal.

Thanks for your quick reply as this topic had been sleeping for some time.Sorry I took so long to find and join the discussion/forum.


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## Paul

Just googled some information links, thats a great watch. Full of innovation and clever design. I doubt many on here will turn their nose up at that. It would be nice to see some wrist shots of the watch with the led's lit.

Paul


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## Synchrohow

Paul said:


> Just googled some information links, thats a great watch. Full of innovation and clever design. I doubt many on here will turn their nose up at that. It would be nice to see some wrist shots of the watch with the led's lit.
> 
> Paul


 My, this forum is simple,even for a novice like me. I admire the quality closeup photos of fine watches seen here.In the current issue of QP magazine there is a closeup full page photo of the Synchronar with the Display lit brightly.The article is entitled "Adventures in Space" featuring great designs from the 50,s to the 80,s.There are various photos here and there on the net.Off hand I can only think of a collector in Japan with nice photos of the display lit. His site is----homepage.mac.com/utdesign/watch. I am still trying to set a site up with the history,photos etc

Howard


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## murph

That's quite an innovative watch synchro. Not that I'm really into no mechanical watches but the very accurate ones like GS quartz and perpetual cal., some Citizens, the Longines VHP etc. do interest me a little.

As others have mentioned older quartz watches sometimes have trimmers to adjust the crystal freq, newer watches like some Seikos often use digital rate adjusting and don't adj the actual crystal freq. afaik and then some cheaper ones use pattern cutting - pulsar psr's 10/20 secs a year iirc, which is a one time adjustment.

I imagine anything under around 1 min a year is considered quite accurate. I'd look for names like Grand Seikos, twin quartz, Megaquartz, quartz chronometer or high frequency crystal rates. I seem to recall a Citizen that was advertised as being accurate to 3 or 5s a year but cost quite a bit. Some of these models were only produced in limited numbers or for a short time. I guess people weren't willing to pay a lot for a more accurate quartz watch.


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## jasonm

Welcome Synchro...









I for one have some limited knowledge of your fathers work and have great respect for what he did in the earliest days of digital watch invention...

I have read numerous posts of yours on digital watch forums and wish you great luck in your ventures to continue your fathers work









You will find that here on RLT we love all watches, there isnt the snobbery that you find on some other forums, thats why we have this Quartz Corner









Im a great fan of digital watches myself.....


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## Roger

> Im a great fan of digital watches myself.....


Me too,

Quartz can have the upper hand in many ways.

Roger


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## Synchrohow

Thanks guys! I should note that the MKI (1972-74) had a trimmer or Tuning capacitor.The MK II and MK III (1975-80) were settable in increments of 16 seconds a year and therefore could be tuned to +- 8 seconds a year.It was not until the 1981 MK IV that digital increments represented 8 seconds a year ,thus settable to +- 4 seconds a year. All models from day 1 had the smart calendar/perpetual/automatic calendar,a first and only for digitals for over 20 years. SYN(synchronous)CHRO(chronometer)NAR(calendar).There was and is no other watch with the accuracy or the feature of the user to adjust without tools or a jeweler going inside to re-adjust a trimmer.Todays best High end digitals(non atomic) are 20 sec a year.If any of the giants had done better beleive me they would have bragged about it to no end.They certainly would not decide to go backwards on accuracy.A sudden shock or blow can send a QC out of tune.In the Synchronar the user can tune this out with the Digital frequency synthesizer.


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## murph

Synchrohow said:


> If any of the giants had done better beleive me they would have bragged about it to no end.They certainly would not decide to go backwards on accuracy.A sudden shock or blow can send a QC out of tune.In the Synchronar the user can tune this out with the Digital frequency synthesizer.


Why some of the big manufacturers have gone backwards with many of their quartz watches is something that has always puzzled me. For example the 1975? Citizen Mega or Crystron specced to 3s a year mentioned on the thermocompensated thread at the watchuseek forum.

Do you intend to release exact replicas of the old models, Synchro or have you been considering making updated versions using the same basic internal design?


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## Synchrohow

murph said:


> Synchrohow said:
> 
> 
> 
> If any of the giants had done better beleive me they would have bragged about it to no end.They certainly would not decide to go backwards on accuracy.A sudden shock or blow can send a QC out of tune.In the Synchronar the user can tune this out with the Digital frequency synthesizer.
> 
> 
> 
> Why some of the big manufacturers have gone backwards with many of their quartz watches is something that has always puzzled me. For example the 1975? Citizen Mega or Crystron specced to 3s a year mentioned on the thermocompensated thread at the watchuseek forum.
> 
> Do you intend to release exact replicas of the old models, Synchro or have you been considering making updated versions using the same basic internal design?
Click to expand...

 Yes to both Q,s. although I would not call it a replica but more of a continuation of the same.The watch has been hand made in small #,s since 1984. With 2005 being the only exception.From 1972-83 about 50.000 modules were made.My father was 99% done with his latest chip design MK V which was to be a special release in Solid Gold only.Well he got to ill to complete it and we lost him. So I have taken a step back so to speak and can only make the final small run of MK IV Synchronars with my past experience I learned from him. I have labeled these RWR LE (legacy edition)series.That is not to say some R&D could not step in and help complete the MK V so that is still a possibility.

Anyway I did not join here to be a salesman,I am more concerned with him being properly acknowleged for his work and with the help of a small fan base have corrected some info on the net which is still being updated.This watch is so rare and almost unknown by most that many of the Unofficial sites on the net have various specs,history. My site riehlsynchronar.com is still pending construction.


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## DavidH

...... repeating myself here.

http://www.rltwatches.co.uk/forums/index.p...13&hl=gamma

read through Rons post. It is possible to adjust the rate of his Gammamaster by inputing an offset of weekly deviation. Looks like the Synchronar is not the only watch to have this feature.

That said, it is probably the first and one of only two!


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## Synchrohow

DavidH said:


> ...... repeating myself here.
> 
> http://www.rltwatches.co.uk/forums/index.p...13&hl=gamma
> 
> read through Rons post. It is possible to adjust the rate of his Gammamaster by inputing an offset of weekly deviation. Looks like the Synchronar is not the only watch to have this feature.
> 
> That said, it is probably the first and one of only two!


 Interesrting, I am always prepared to be open minded and learn of watches like the Gamma model.Currious though ,did it or does it come pre programmed by the factory or hand crafter? or is it expected of the user to do this computing thereself? Since QC,s (especially the cheap ones) drift in frequency due to age and temp fluxuations,the occasional physical bump etc.One would need to then adjust to a new accuracy setting due to the drift in the QC.

Although the Synchronar and Gamma both achieve an Electronic means of regulating time,they are based on a different technique.So in one sence they both are an "Only" or "First"

What is the certified accuracy from Gamma manuals or ads? Is there a recomendation to check the time drift say once a yearn to see if one needs to put new input in again.

Sorry for all the Q,s. Thanks for the input.


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## DavidH

How can I improve the accuracy of the*edit Gammamaster* digital watch?

The digital watch is intentionally made to run a little bit fast (about 5 seconds per day). This allows the user to adjust the accuracy of the watch and results in more accurate timekeeping.

You will need to measure and note how many seconds the watch gains per week. Once you have that value, do the following:

1.Identify the Mode and Select Buttons.

2. Press the mode button a few times until the timekeeping mode is selected and the clock symbol is shown.

3.Press select. The daily alarm is now displayed.

4.Immediately push the select button again. The date will now be displayed for a few seconds in DD MM format.

5.Immediately press and hold select for 2 seconds until "SET" appears. You are now in the accuracy adjustment mode. (Only 2 digits are shown.)

6.Enter the number of seconds per week that the watch is fast by pressing the mode button.

7.Press select when done to return to the current time display.

The above is lifted of a Gammamaster website. So how often you reset ,I suppose, depends on how fussy you are! Ageing, temp and physical intervention will still have their effect.

I would expect its final accuracy to be as good as the person who sets it up, the limitations being whole number seconds per week correction( point 6) ageing and temp. Lets not kick it about


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## Synchrohow

DavidH said:


> How can I improve the accuracy of the*edit Gammamaster* digital watch?
> 
> The digital watch is intentionally made to run a little bit fast (about 5 seconds per day). This allows the user to adjust the accuracy of the watch and results in more accurate timekeeping.
> 
> You will need to measure and note how many seconds the watch gains per week. Once you have that value, do the following:
> 
> 1.Identify the Mode and Select Buttons.
> 
> 2. Press the mode button a few times until the timekeeping mode is selected and the clock symbol is shown.
> 
> 3.Press select. The daily alarm is now displayed.
> 
> 4.Immediately push the select button again. The date will now be displayed for a few seconds in DD MM format.
> 
> 5.Immediately press and hold select for 2 seconds until "SET" appears. You are now in the accuracy adjustment mode. (Only 2 digits are shown.)
> 
> 6.Enter the number of seconds per week that the watch is fast by pressing the mode button.
> 
> 7.Press select when done to return to the current time display.
> 
> The above is lifted of a Gammamaster website. So how often you reset ,I suppose, depends on how fussy you are! Ageing, temp and physical intervention will still have their effect.
> 
> I would expect its final accuracy to be as good as the person who sets it up, the limitations being whole number seconds per week correction( point 6) ageing and temp. Lets not kick it about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was mainly talking about the question of-- Can quarts be adjusted for accuracy? No disrespect
> 
> intended about the Gammaster watch.It is only an honnor for the Synchronar to be one of so few where you can change the accuracy digitaly
> 
> On the Synchronar the speed range is 000-799 which is a 17 second per day variable.There is based on that a mathamatical formula one can use at any time of the year and then slide one switch and hold it while sliding one more switch .Then wait for a 6 second delay for the speed # to change , + or - depending on which way you slide the second switch.The watch is also made to run at a faster rate than normal so the synthesizer can slow it down.
> 
> There is also a way to read the crystal rate optically from the L.E.D display and set your frequency # accordingly for each individual watch by the results from a Digital Freq counter.


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## Griff

> The digital watch is intentionally made to run a little bit fast (about 5 seconds per day). This allows the user to adjust the accuracy of the watch and results in more accurate timekeeping.


5 secs per day!!!









Sorry, I'm not buying that


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## Robert

I was wondering about that too. How can the user achieve better timekeeping?

I would expect the manufacturer to be able to achieve better timekepping. If the manufacturer can achieve +5s per day wouldn't it be easier for them to set it to +/- 0s per day.

Is there more to this that I am missing?


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## Griff

Robert said:


> I was wondering about that too. How can the user achieve better timekeeping?
> 
> I would expect the manufacturer to be able to achieve better timekepping. If the manufacturer can achieve +5s per day wouldn't it be easier for them to set it to +/- 0s per day.
> 
> Is there more to this that I am missing?


No!!


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