# Are There Any Other Similar Japanese Watches With A Smooth Second Hand



## 7ygixop (Mar 28, 2010)

Being an absolute beginner when it comes to mechanical watches, I thought that there were just two types. Mechanical watches you have to wind yourself and automatic mechanical watches. I've just found out about the Seiko Spring Drive watches









With other mechanical watches that I have seen, the second hand starts and stops when moving around the face of the watch. With the Seiko Spring Drive watches, the second hand flows around the face of the watch in a fluid motion without stopping. To be honest I am not too sure about what other features the spring drivers offer but they normally have a nice power dial to let you know when you need to wind the watch again.

:duh: Are there any other Japanese companies that have a similar smooth flowing second hand like the Seiko Spring Drives? Also is there something the other mechanical watches have or can do that the Spring Drives cannot?

Here is a video of a Seiko Spring Drive watch compared with a Rolex. I love how smooth the movement is. :aikido:

This video shows the insides of the watch.

This is an commercial for the Grand Seiko Spring Drive Drivers watch.


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## Walnuts (Apr 20, 2010)

Plenty of seiko's have what's called a sweeping second hand if that's what you really want you could get a plain seiko 5 for about Â£50 with this feature.


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## louiswu (May 16, 2009)

The spring drive uses a totally different internal mechanism than other watches allowing a totally smooth action of the second hand, and a 72hr power reserve, and a whopping great price tag. some of them look very nice too.

techie mumbo-jumbo here

WatchReport linkie

With it only being out since 2005 i expect it still has various patents protecting it from replication by other manufacturers?


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## 7ygixop (Mar 28, 2010)

Walnuts said:


> Plenty of seiko's have what's called a sweeping second hand if that's what you really want you could get a plain seiko 5 for about Â£50 with this feature.


I didn't know that. I actually live in Japan and they don't have any Seiko 5 watches here so I have never actually seen the Seiko 5 movement before, just pictures. I recently visited the Seiko shop where they mostly sold the high priced watches. The staff were very helpful and I learnt so much about mechanical watches. Then even offered me some mugi-cha Japanese tea while I looks at some of the watches. :notworthy:

There are plenty of mechanical, spring drive and solar powered watches but nothing similar to Seiko 5 watches here in Japan. It seems crazy that they are made in Japan and then sold exclusively abroad for such cheap prices. On paper the Seiko 5 watches look pretty good, but I can't understand why they are just Â£50, there has to be something missing with them.

I have two questions for you if you don't mind;

If you compare a Seiko 5 with a normal mechanical Seiko watch is anything different?

Is there a special name for the sweeping second hand so if I did decided to purchase a watch on the internet I would know which watches have it and which don't?


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## normdiaz (May 5, 2004)

Bulova is supposed to have a new quartz model coming out that claims a smooth-moving second hand.


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## Clum (Feb 14, 2009)

7ygixop said:


> Walnuts said:
> 
> 
> > Plenty of seiko's have what's called a sweeping second hand if that's what you really want you could get a plain seiko 5 for about Â£50 with this feature.
> ...


Sorry to disappoint, but Walnuts is wrong in thinking they're the same thing. Seiko 5's are just normal mechanical watches and don't have anywhere near as smooth a sweep as the Seiko Spring Drive you're searching for. They will mostly be running at 21,600bph (less than the 28,800 that the Rolex in the video you linked to runs at) and so will stutter even more.

The only alternative I can think of that gives as smooth a sweep are tuning fork watches (hummers), which are electric. If you want a Japanese make I think Citizen made a tuning fork watch at some point. But if you're open to any make, look at Bulova Accutrons, Omega f300s, Tissot Tissonics, or Titus'.

Accutron vs. Quartz on Youtube


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

I have a couple Seikos with 21,600 bph movements, and ... I really don't mind the "stuttering."

OP, the concept behind Seiko 5's is, if I've heard correctly, is 5 hallmarks of a good watch: automatic movement, shock resistance, water resistance, day display, date display. I believe some only have 4 of those hallmarks, missing the day display.

That spring drive is something to behold, but frankly for < US$500, you can get a nice watch with a 28,000 bph movement.

Seiko makes so many attractive watches in all kinds of styles, it's hard to imagine picking one. Recently, I caught some "Honda F1 Racing" watches, and though I've got my fill of battery powered watches, those look NICE.

As someone on another forum wrote (came across it researching Chenevard watches), "take your time, they will still be making them when you're ready to buy, and you'll enjoy your purchase more having done some reading and hunting." Or words to that effect.


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## 7ygixop (Mar 28, 2010)

David Spalding said:


> I have a couple Seikos with 21,600 bph movements, and ... I really don't mind the "stuttering."
> 
> OP, the concept behind Seiko 5's is, if I've heard correctly, is 5 hallmarks of a good watch: automatic movement, shock resistance, water resistance, day display, date display. I believe some only have 4 of those hallmarks, missing the day display.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for all the advice. I defiantly want to stick with a watch made in Japan, so I think I will be looking at Seiko, Citizen and Orient.

Most of the watch magazine I have look at, at least in Japan don't say how many bph the watches are. So the only way of finding out is by literately looking at the movement myself.

I do like a few of the Seiko Brightz but not keen on Radio Wave Controlled watches.

Just to make clear, would have be looking for a watch with over 28,000 bhp if I wanted it to be smooth sweeping?

Thank again


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## clockworks (Apr 11, 2010)

Are there any Japanese hi-beat watch movements? The only hi-beat that I own is a Zenith el Primero, which runs at 36,000 bph - pretty smooth.

The other option is to choose a watch with a small seconds hand. Even a 21,600 looks smooth on a seconds sub-dial.


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## gchampi2 (Apr 28, 2010)

clockworks said:


> Are there any Japanese hi-beat watch movements? The only hi-beat that I own is a Zenith el Primero, which runs at 36,000 bph - pretty smooth.
> 
> The other option is to choose a watch with a small seconds hand. Even a 21,600 looks smooth on a seconds sub-dial.


Ummm... Maybe. I know that there were japanese hi-beat movements, used in the Grand Seiko line during the 70's and 80's. If there is a current manufacturer of hi-beats? I have no clue. As far as I am aware (and I may well be wrong in this) the Grand Seiko line is the only line of watches that Seiko produced with Hi-beat movements, and they reverted back to "slower" movements at some point in the late 80's-early 90's. Other japanese manufacturers may well have made or currently make hi-beat watches, but I, as a complete non-expert on such things, am not aware of them.

... G


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## mrteatime (Oct 25, 2006)

the springdrive is an amazing piece of kit....although its not strictly an auto movt is it?????

by adding an electrical element to a mecahanical watchis cheating really 

springdrive movt


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## LuvWatch (May 14, 2004)

Ohhh, they still make hi-beat movements

Check out this video from Baselworld 2010 :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

Watch Porn

Derek


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## gchampi2 (Apr 28, 2010)

Dang! I sit corrected (would stand, but then I wouldn't be able to type). I just wish that Seiko would sell the GS range outside of Japan on a regular basis...

... G


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## ollyhock (Feb 9, 2009)

7ygixop said:


> Being an absolute beginner when it comes to mechanical watches, I thought that there were just two types. Mechanical watches you have to wind yourself and automatic mechanical watches. I've just found out about the Seiko Spring Drive watches
> 
> 
> 
> ...


im pretty impressed by both watches, im certainly not a rolex fan per-se but i like that one and the spring drive gmt looks the bussiness as well


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## 7ygixop (Mar 28, 2010)

ollyhock said:


> im pretty impressed by both watches, im certainly not a rolex fan per-se but i like that one and the spring drive gmt looks the bussiness as well


Yes, I'm pretty keen on that watch but it's a little bit out of my price range. Maybe if I won the lottery <_<

For those cleaver people out there, I have a bit of a side question. I recently found out about Kinetic automatic Mechanical watches. Could somebody explain what this is? I was under the impressions that normal automatic mechanical watches can be wound when the Bessel plate (not sure if this name is correct) at the back of the watch spins. I was told in a shop that old people might not be as active as younger people and would probably need to wind the watch manually as they wouldn't cause enough movement to keep the watch going. So, what is with the Kinetic watches? Are they the same as normal automatic mechanical watches but need less motion to keep the watches movement going?

Here is an nice dress watch which is in the Brightz range;


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## MarkDavey (Jan 9, 2009)

LuvWatch said:


> Ohhh, they still make hi-beat movements
> 
> Check out this video from Baselworld 2010 :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
> 
> ...


Interesting video Derek - Thanks for sharing that one :thumbsup:


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## Clum (Feb 14, 2009)

7ygixop said:


> ollyhock said:
> 
> 
> > im pretty impressed by both watches, im certainly not a rolex fan per-se but i like that one and the spring drive gmt looks the bussiness as well
> ...


Here


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## clockworks (Apr 11, 2010)

Clum said:


> Here


Excellent!


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## normdiaz (May 5, 2004)

"So, what is with the Kinetic watches? Are they the same as normal automatic mechanical watches but need less motion to keep the watches movement going?"

In my understanding, a automatic has a rotor that will move to keep a mainspring wound which powers a mechanical movement. Whereas a kinetic has a rotor that moves to create electrical energy and keep a battery/capacitor charged which powers a quartz movement. So you might say the kinetic combines the features of automatic and quartz.

My own preference in quartz is a solar model that keeps the battery charged from ambient light. It's always ready-to-go with just daily exposure to a light source. The kinetic will be equally ready-to-go unless not worn beyond its power-reserve capacity or not charged periodicaly on a external charger. JMHO, but the light-powered seems more convenient.


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## 7ygixop (Mar 28, 2010)

Thanks for explaining that difference with the Kinetic watches. I like to see the insides of a watch, so I think automatic and spring drive mechanical watches are still my favourite.

I actually had an opportunity to try a similar model to the above picture on my wrist and was surprised how light it was. Compared to the spring drive watches the kinetic ones seem to be very light weight.


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## jezz59 (Nov 1, 2009)

7ygixop said:


> ollyhock said:
> 
> 
> > im pretty impressed by both watches, im certainly not a rolex fan per-se but i like that one and the spring drive gmt looks the bussiness as well
> ...


A Seiko Kinetic watch derives its power from the natural wrist motion of its wearer by causing the rotor to well,rotate, this power is stored in a battery, its different from an ordinary battery for an ordinary quartz watch because it is rechargeable, the power storage of this battery enables these watches to hold massive standby time whilst the watch is motionless, Citizen Eco drive and Casio tough solar also use a rechargable battery for their standby time. In the case of a purely mechanical automatic watch, again the revolutions of the rotor wind up the spring. Some automatic movements Can be hand wound as well, for Example,ETA,VALJOUX,MIYOTA & VOSTOK movt`s can be hand wound.The movt`s found in Seiko 5s and Orients cannot be hand wound.As for an old gentleman not being able to wear an automatic? speaking from experience by ownership, I seriously doubt that an old person would have any trouble with Vostok,Seiko 5 or orient movt`s as they start moving soon as you pick them up, they would have to be totally inanimate. I know there is aspecial name for rechargable battery, capaciter or something, but any way thats basically (very) how they work


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## TikTok (Mar 26, 2006)

What about the Seiko Spirit (SCV 003)

It's Japanese made,sweeping hand,quality and finish and 100% mechanical


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## 7ygixop (Mar 28, 2010)

TikTok said:


> What about the Seiko Spirit (SCV 003)
> 
> It's Japanese made,sweeping hand,quality and finish and 100% mechanical


wow, very nice. I'll have to check this watch out :good: Thank you


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## Thus Spoke Zarathustra (Apr 16, 2010)

where can you get these Grand Seiko's in the uk?

36,000, so Zenith is not the only one to make 10 beats a second


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