# Help!



## minkle (Mar 17, 2008)

I normally dont like these threads.. but i could do with some help for a friend of a friend.

Looking at these very crap pictures (not mine and its not in my possession to take better ones).. what can you tell me? What are the marks/stamps?

I had 11 attachments in the email but only 6 are a format i can use!!

Hopefully it should take no more than two mins of your time!


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## tixntox (Jul 17, 2009)

For silver hallmarks info:-

Hallmarked silver

Mike


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## tixntox (Jul 17, 2009)

Also makers marks

Mike


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## beach bum (Aug 9, 2010)

The three sheaves of wheat is the hallmark for Chester if that helps.

regards

beach bum


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

The lion is for sterling silver, the three wheat sheaves are (as mentioned above) for Chester, the leopards head, and in this case it is in a shield shaped cartouche, and the upper case P dates it to 1811-1812. When reading hallmarks, the shape of the cartouche is important...for instance, there is another upper case P for the date1833-1834, but the leopards head is in a squarer cartouche. I would therefore say that your marks are the earlier ones. RB is the makers mark, but I have no info on that.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

The RB maker's mark MAY be *ONLY* for the case, and may not reflect the maker of the watch and movement.

2c worth!


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## Shiner (Mar 2, 2011)

I think the date letter 'P' is for 1833/4 because the leopards head appears to be uncrowned. Prior to 1823 the leopards head wore a crown. There was a Robert Summersgill trading as a watch and clockmaker in Oxford Street, Preston in the 1830s. The surname is very unusual and as far as I can tell, going by the 1841 and 1851 cencus there was only one Robert Summersgill born in Lancashire and that was at Linton Mill, Preston in 1797. His name has disappeared by the 1861 cencus. I have seen a long case clock by Robert Summersgill that dated to c. 1835.

The birth date of 1797 would tie in nicely with the case date of 1833 making Robert 36 years old at the time.

I can't find a case maker's mark of R.B listed in the Chester lists of hall marks. There are three case makers marks listed in the Birmingham Assay Marks but they cover a period of 1878 to 1895, so are well outside the time period.

Sorry, but that's about all I can come up with.

I'm sure there are others who can produce more positive information.


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## Thomasr (Oct 11, 2011)

Hello again

the watch movement was made using diamond stones rather than rubies this make it a nice quality watch. A nice thing!!


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

Just to clarify the above comment the stones are corundum which is a clear sapphire, the red ones are just sapphires with chromium, there are other colours........

This type of watch is called a "Liverpool Window" Pocket watch due to the large jewels which you can look through and also the fact that the vast majority were made in Liverpool, and Preston being quite close to Liverpool supports this..............

Usually the winding arbour would also be jewelled and secured by 3 screws holding down the jewel by means of a chaton

Diamonds are reserved for the top of the balance c*ck where their hardness is used for the top of the balance pivot so it can't be worn away

You can also get Liverpool Window watches with red & blue stones......... and quite nice they look too


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## Shiner (Mar 2, 2011)

I've just had a root through some of my parts boxes and found this example with the jewelled winding arbour.


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## minkle (Mar 17, 2008)

Chaps.... thank you all so much!

This is well out of my area of knowledge.. if i have one at all!

I am presuming it has been passed on from a relative, possibly an ex-pat living in the states.

Thanks again 

:rltb:


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

No problemo, just to add it would of course be a fusee watch, so chain drive which smoothes out the power of the mainspring, here is a pic of the red stone version incase anyone is interested, they don't make them like they used to in the old days..........


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