# Problems Regulating Clock



## Castman (May 2, 2012)

I have a 1954 "Time Savings Clock" made by Metamic. I don't know much about clocks (just starting to learn) but, it is one of those issued by insurance company that requires the owner to feed it with florin's to keep it going. A simple clock mechanism.

The problem is that I have been trying to regulate it and getting very frustrated because I get it to it keeps perfect time for 24 - 36 hours, then it will suddenly gain or lose 5 - 8 minutes in the same time period.

I go through the same ritual every night before going to bed I wind it up and set the time against a digital clock that has its time set from the radio waves - so I know that is a constant. And, as stated in 24 hours it will either be spot on, or a few minutes fast or slow.

Any ideas? I know it's not an expensive clock and it's value is more to do with its novelty, but nevertheless it's a clock we like, and would like to keep using.


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## Tony1951 (Dec 23, 2011)

Is it wanting more florins?

How often are they required and does it stop if they are not provided?


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## Castman (May 2, 2012)

Actually I think the "savings"mechanism may have been disabled because it doesn't actually stop if you don't feed it


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## Tony1951 (Dec 23, 2011)

I can't think of any reason why once regulated and then wound at a regular time it wouldn't perform in a predictable way. I have an eight day clock that runs at slightly different rates at different states of wind, but that doesn't apply here.

Does it always get wound to the same state of wind each day? If it was subjected to different winding tensions it might run differently. They shouldn't but some do. Also, I've just been working on a watch that was 'knocking'. This happens when the excessive amplitude caused by too much mainspring tension causes the balance to swing right around and wack the outside of the pallet fork as the balance does more than 360 degrees. It then bounces back much faster than it normally would more or less like a tennis ball bouncing off a wall. This can add quite a few minutes a day.

Sorry this is all waffling in the dark, but it might lead you somewhere. On the other hand, it might well not.


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## tixntox (Jul 17, 2009)

Did you service it before trying to regulate it?

Mike


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## Castman (May 2, 2012)

Ok first off, it hasn't been serviced as such, it has been oiled and all "looks" clean.

Winding: it's a 30hr movement and a full wind is 7 turns. I give it 6 turns every night before bed. It is on a level base (in all directions). I could understand that wear could cause it to slow as it comes to the end of its wind cycle but not speed up, which it does now and again. Defies logic to me


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## Tony1951 (Dec 23, 2011)

It sounds like something may be wrong with the escapement if it erratically runs at a faster rate than normal.

I think I would be looking carefully at the way the balance is working if it has one. You mention that it has been oiled.

Did this problem only start after the oiling?

Does it have a balance wheel , and if it has, is it oily?

When oil gets on a balance hair-spring, the coils may stick together now and then and this will make the balance oscillate faster while the coils are together.

If this is the trouble, you will have to very carefully clean the spring, but beware - they are extremely fragile. Carefully applied lighter fluid will help wash away the oil.

If the clock has a pendulum, I would look at the way the pallets are adjusted in case it is possible for the odd tooth to escape because the pallets are not set deep enough.


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## Castman (May 2, 2012)

The clock sat in a box for 30 years, so when it was taken out a colleague of mine had some watch makers oil and applicator, so offered to oil

Moving parts before we wound it up. Very small "dots" of oil were applied to certain parts (I am not very knowledgable on clock parts) but I do recall him saying that we don't want to get oil on the small delicate spring - which I assume is the one you refer to.

There is no pendulum

Since starting this thread my friend suggested it might all be a bit stiff and grumpy and that I should just run the clock moving the regulator from one extreme to the other bit-by-bit over several days to stretch its legs, do to speak, then try regulating it - does that sound feasible?


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## Tony1951 (Dec 23, 2011)

Castman said:


> The clock sat in a box for 30 years, so when it was taken out a colleague of mine had some watch makers oil and applicator, so offered to oil
> 
> Moving parts before we wound it up. Very small "dots" of oil were applied to certain parts (I am not very knowledgable on clock parts) but I do recall him saying that we don't want to get oil on the small delicate spring - which I assume is the one you refer to.
> 
> ...


'Stiff and grumpy'..... Well, I don't think messing with the regulator would make any difference. You'd just make it more difficult to make it run to time again. I wouldn't move that lever except as a part of a carefully documented attempt to bring it right on time.

If it was mine, I'd be very carefully observing the balance spring. My bet is that it is sticky, either from newly applied oil, or from oil put on before it went in the box you mention. Watch how it operates. If ANY two coils touch each other or are sticking together, that will be the problem. The length of the hairspring on the balance wheel is what times the intervals between ticks. dirty hairsprings stick together - so do magnetised ones. When they stick together the clock will run fast.


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## Castman (May 2, 2012)

I thought you might like the quoted "stiff and grumpy" comment which is why I used his words! His experience of clocks isn't wonderful, he just manages his inherited two longcase clocks and a very old outdoor clock over the gateway into a stable block (he's got a posh house too!).

I think I will opt for your advice and watch the spring (sounds slightly more fun than watching paint dry!). Incidently, I noticed that it has kept almost perfect time for 33hrs now, it being approx 30 seconds slow....who know's, maybe it was a bit stiff and grumpy  we'll see!


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## Tony1951 (Dec 23, 2011)

LOL - maybe it has got over its stiff and grumpy hissy fit and will be a good clock from now on. Who knows. Actually, I find watching a main spring for an hour or two quite theraputic...... This is where interest in these things takes you. Beware!!

:lol:


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## Castman (May 2, 2012)

Thanks Tony1951 I'm glad I added a spark of humour into your life!

I have to say I love clocks, and am about to start collecting a few. I'm not especially interested in gloriously expensive ones, just ones that take my fancy and fit my lowly budget, so I want to learn about them (why I joined this forum) and get to appreciate them more, look after them and maybe a little restoration as my learning increases so if anyone has any recommendations on books etc that may help guide me, I'd be very appreciative


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Welcome to the forum Castman! :yes:

I remember these "Savings Clocks" vaguely - the idea being you had to feed them, and the "surance mannie" came and emptied them - - taking the premiums for simple endowments policies. He then handed back any surplus to be used as the householder saw fit - often the two bob bits were stacked behind the clock ready to be fed back in to keep it going .

A florin was two shillings, 24 old pennies (not pence) and there were ten florins to the pound (20 shillings, 240 pennies)

"He's worth a bob or two"

so the florin - two shillings - was a two bob bit, and half a crown was 2 shillings and sixpence. If I had one of the clocks, I'd try to get the savings mechanism working and pick up some two bob coins to feed it, I think that would be FUN!

I also think they were used by some retailers in the same way, folks could save and pay for household items "on tick" using the clock savings.


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## Tony1951 (Dec 23, 2011)

Castman said:


> Thanks Tony1951 I'm glad I added a spark of humour into your life!
> 
> I have to say I love clocks, and am about to start collecting a few. I'm not especially interested in gloriously expensive ones, just ones that take my fancy and fit my lowly budget, so I want to learn about them (why I joined this forum) and get to appreciate them more, look after them and maybe a little restoration as my learning increases so if anyone has any recommendations on books etc that may help guide me, I'd be very appreciative


I just got into this horology game after my old man died in January 2011. I inherited an old Bentimer Mantle Clock that had never worked since about 1962 and his old Omega gold Bumper Automatic. At first I did nothing with these as neither was working and there was a lot to do clearing out the house and so on. Then I set about the clock and found it was only out of beat (easy to sort out) and I gave it a clean and service. Then I bought another old clock in a junk shop and that is a real beauty. I love its chime. That didn't work either for the exact same reason as the other one. I suppose most people these days, including me at the time I got the first clock, have no idea what having a pendulum clock in beat involves and unless they are right, they just won't run. So easy to sort out too, but I suppose it may lead to bargains like the one I got at the junk shop.

How about this for Â£15?










That's what I paid for it. It was on offer for thirty and when I said it was too expensive, the woman said, give me fifteen and its yours. I didn't argue...


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## Castman (May 2, 2012)

Mel: yes a trip down memory lane there in your thread. My favourite old coin has to be the thruppenny bit - 3d I have a few good old heavy solid brass coins!

Tony: that was a great buy, I'd give you Â£16 for it any day of the week


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## Tony1951 (Dec 23, 2011)

Castman said:


> Mel: yes a trip down memory lane there in your thread. My favourite old coin has to be the thruppenny bit - 3d I have a few good old heavy solid brass coins!
> 
> Tony: that was a great buy, I'd give you Â£16 for it any day of the week


Ha ha ha ha.........

Like your style, but I'll have to think about that offer for a century or two.

:lol:


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## Castman (May 2, 2012)

Tony1951 said:


> Ha ha ha ha.........
> 
> Like your style, but I'll have to think about that offer for a century or two.
> 
> :lol:


Well, you have plenty of time to think about it (pun intended) I will up my offer by stating I'll pay postage! (that should swing it!). that's not bad but there's one on Ebay at Â£20 right now


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