# Christopher Ward re-branding.



## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

This is being absolutely slaughtered on the CW forum, which is overheating!

What do you guy's think?

They've also dropped the London bit and now want to be known as an 'anglo-swiss' brand, which they actually are of course.

This is their new C65. I like the hands, not sure about the new logo and it's position.


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## carlgulliver (Apr 6, 2008)

Stunning looking watch and I think the logo position makes it unique


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## ABaird3 (Apr 23, 2016)

The logo position makes it a little different. I suppose it's hard for designers to find different things to do, only so big a canvas to work on.

I noticed just now CW have a new site design too, harder to navigate. :|


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

No idea what the fuss is about, but I don't own a CW. Looks just great to me. It's not as though they have changed their name. :thumbsup:


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

carlgulliver said:


> Stunning looking watch and I think the logo position makes it unique


 Yeah, the watch isn't for me, but I'm pleased they've moved away from the wavy line and I do like the new hands.

I can't make my mind up about the logo. I like the crisp feel of it, but the location bothers me a bit. Not so much on this watch, but on other watches in their line-up, the more classically styled watches which I can see this clashing with and on a 6/9/12 chrono. I think the logo will be out of kilter when moved to the RHS of the watch.


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## Watchdude49 (Jan 6, 2014)

I think the position of the logo looks slightly off and the modern font doesn't work too well with the style of the watch.


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

That's either a very big case or a very small movement, either way it looks unbalanced and I agree the font doesn't suit the watch either, which has a bit of a look of a seventies Seiko... other than that it looks very average.. :biggrin:


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## Trigger (Sep 16, 2011)

The typeface is too stern, bleak. A bit po-faced. Nice watch.


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

Handy if it happens to be your own name!


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## The Canon Man (Apr 9, 2010)

Branding at 9:00 O Clock.

Just like err... Diesel!

I'm sure that was the intention, to make a Homage to a fashion brand.


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## graham1981 (Jan 1, 2016)

I've got to say I don't like this at all - the hour and minutes hands going from thin at the base to fat for the main part make them look top heavy, the logo just doesn't look right in that position I think for me partly because both words are left aligned making the W of Ward look slightly out of line compared to the C of Christopher, it would have been better if they had been centralised in relation to each other i.e Ward was underneath Christopher but in the centre of the word. I like the main case of the watch I also like the date window and the hour markers. All in all though this isn't a watch I would buy.


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## Watchdude49 (Jan 6, 2014)

bridgeman said:


> Handy if it happens to be your own name!


 This might be the target group.


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## jizzle (Jul 11, 2010)

I really like it!


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## Qtronic (Jan 8, 2016)

Its the Full Name "Christopher Ward" on the dial thats the issue.

I have a Trident and it is a lovley watch. Everyone from watch lovers to non love the watch, but they always I mean always comment it would be better without the massive "Chr.WARD" then "London" under at the top of the dial!

I do get them, and I dont. I Listen!

Slipping the full name "Christopher Ward" on the dial, "my own view" ... wont work!

Q.


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## Tangent (Feb 28, 2013)

Isn't this the second change recently? It smacks of desperation, of trying to please everyone rather than celebrating what makes them different and proudly standing by that: find your niche and own that.


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## mcb2007 (Dec 12, 2013)

Not a bad looking watch but the logo looks odd at the 9 , odd enough for me not to consider it as a purchase . They should have reverted back to the original logo no need to keep chopping and changing , is this the third logo change ?


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

I like the watch, the logo & it`s position :thumbsup:


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## AVO (Nov 18, 2012)

I'm among the slaughterers, though not saying much. I am not impressed by the new logo.


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## dobra (Aug 20, 2009)

Remember the first CW logo, which they had to change because a German watch already had a similar one (Ideal World TV channel). The last one did nothing for me, and this one looks as though someone in the Art Department found a gap for it.

Mike


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## ETCHY (Aug 3, 2004)

It looks like it's owned by a bloke called Christopher Ward, not that it's the make of the watch.


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## gimli (Mar 24, 2016)

I don't know anything about CW. I think the watch looks beautiful but that's not a logo, it's just the company's name written on the dial. They need to get a real logo as well and perhaps combine it like Omega and Rolex do. Decrease the size of the font, add a real logo, make profit.


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## AVO (Nov 18, 2012)

I liked the original CW logo, despite its resemblance to their Germasian shopping channel brand. I have three of those.

I _LOVED _the CHR. WARD logo...deliciously idiosyncratic. I have three of those also.

i do not think that I shall have three of the "Christopher Robin and Pooh visit the Early Learning Centre" logos.


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

gimli said:


> ... but that's not a logo, it's just the company's name written on the dial. They need to get a real logo as well and perhaps combine it like Omega and Rolex do. Decrease the size of the font, add a real logo, make profit.


 I agree totally, they seem to be getting some very bad marketing advice from someone, that's for sure..... These constant branding changes just demonstrate a lack of confidence and ability ....


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## relaxer7 (Feb 18, 2016)

Looks OK to me


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## gimli (Mar 24, 2016)

artistmike said:


> I agree totally, they seem to be getting some very bad marketing advice from someone, that's for sure..... These constant branding changes just demonstrate a lack of confidence and ability ....


 True, however, this is way beyond lack of confidence. It's sad to know that someone out there gets paid a lot of money for having suggested this "logo" of theirs...


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## Will Fly (Apr 10, 2012)

Coincidentally, I've just received an issue of "Loupe. The Magazine of Christopher Ward", in which there's an article on the re-branding of the Trident. (All the other watches in the pages, by the way, have the conventional Chr. Ward lettering on the dial, either at 12 o'clock or 6 o'clock).

The rebrand is covered in an article entitled "The New Deal". The process appears to have been that, under the merger with the Swiss watch movement makers Synergies Horlogères of Biel in 2014, they felt that the new entity - an English watchmaking firm entirely responsible for case, dial, movement, hands - in short, the whole watch - a new look to complement that entity was desirable. The design firm used in the process of doing the watch and website rebrand is a West Country firm called "Hello", whose creative director is called Jamie Gallagher. Quote: "We definitely wanted something simple, without the fuss and embellishment of the old logo. The brand is straight-up and real - it's about engineering over artifice. The new trademark does away with the faux luxury elements of the last one but, in a quiet way, it's more bold and direct too."

So there you have it from the horse's mouth. The new look seems OK to me. I have one CW watch - the C1000 - and I don't aim to buy another as I'm quite happy with what I've got. So back to you folks.

Will


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

Well 24 hours on and not much has changed. There are some serious CW collectors over there, many with watches in the double figures, saying never again. There's a general view the brand is re-positioning, even dumbing down, clearly not the reaction CW were hoping for. it will be interesting to see how it pans out. As for me, having thought about it, I think the new logo is disposable. It's a change dictated by current trends that will soon look dated, rather than something that will become a classic and be recognised as synonymous with the brand. Which means they'll be going through this all again at some stage in the not too distant future.


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

So what happens when they have a watch where they want the "logo" top dead centre of the watch, do they then move the word 'Ward' under the centre of the 'Christopher' for symmetry or do they keep it where it is and look ridiculous.

The point is that this is not really a logo, just their name printed in yet another font, as it just wouldn't work anywhere on the dial. For instance ......


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

Will Fly said:


> "We definitely wanted something simple, without the fuss and embellishment of the old logo. The brand is straight-up and real - it's about engineering over artifice. The new trademark does away with the faux luxury elements of the last one but, in a quiet way, it's more bold and direct too."


 When you read stuff like this, which is just inane drivel, you have to marvel at their artistry in explaining how they come up with something as thought provoking as, 'Christopher Ward' in a basic font, for a watch brand called, 'Christopher Ward'!.



artistmike said:


> So what happens when they have a watch where they want the "logo" top dead centre of the watch, do they then move the word 'Ward' under the centre of the 'Christopher' for symmetry or do they keep it where it is and look ridiculous.


 I think the idea is that it remains at 9o/c. Not sure what happens with chronos? But I'm guessing that the new logo will only appear on new ranges, which certainly limits their options.


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

Caller said:


> I think the idea is that it remains at 9o/c. Not sure what happens with chronos? But I'm guessing that the new logo will only appear on new ranges, which certainly limits their options.


 In which case, as we say, it's a pretty ridiculous idea of a "logo" and extremely poorly designed ...


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## Will Fly (Apr 10, 2012)

Technically, I suppose, it's a trademark rather than a logo (which is a graphic mark or emblem), but the effect is the same. I prefer the "Chr. Ward" trademark at 3 o'clock on my C1000 to the new offering.


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

They're having a tough time. Someone on the cw forum provided links to Instagram, twitter and facebook comments. There's no let-up, although some of those will also be forum members. On twitter, someone from the company responded to the initial negative comments, but then gave up.


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## AVO (Nov 18, 2012)

Caller said:


> They're having a tough time.


 Of their own making.


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

AVO said:


> Of their own making.


 True. I'm sure intentions were good......

I'm wondering if they will respond?


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## rhino2k (Oct 17, 2014)

I really do not like it, Reminds me of those nasty Daniel Wellington watches!

Had they stuck to the original CHR.Ward logo and made it a bit more inconspicuous it would have been better IMO.

Or even do something with the initials CW, Because this is really not very inspiring :laugh:


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## Qtronic (Jan 8, 2016)

Will Fly said:


> Coincidentally, I've just received an issue of "Loupe. The Magazine of Christopher Ward", in which there's an article on the re-branding of the Trident. (All the other watches in the pages, by the way, have the conventional Chr. Ward lettering on the dial, either at 12 o'clock or 6 o'clock).
> 
> The rebrand is covered in an article entitled "The New Deal". The process appears to have been that, under the merger with the Swiss watch movement makers Synergies Horlogères of Biel in 2014, they felt that the new entity - an English watchmaking firm entirely responsible for case, dial, movement, hands - in short, the whole watch - a new look to complement that entity was desirable. The design firm used in the process of doing the watch and website rebrand is a West Country firm called "Hello", whose creative director is called Jamie Gallagher. Quote: "We definitely wanted something simple, without the fuss and embellishment of the old logo. The brand is straight-up and real - it's about engineering over artifice. The new trademark does away with the faux luxury elements of the last one but, in a quiet way, it's more bold and direct too."
> 
> ...


  You must own a CW to get sent that magazine ...

Q.



Caller said:


> They're having a tough time. Someone on the cw forum provided links to Instagram, twitter and facebook comments. There's no let-up, although some of those will also be forum members. On twitter, someone from the company responded to the initial negative comments, but then gave up.


 What was the negative points about? The new logo? I dont use social media, so I cant check.

I think one has to remember the company is a new watch company that took of Very, Very quickly for a watch company, and it takes years to establish heritage, I am sure Rolex, Breitling and alike had some rough times too on the onset.

They will find their way, hopefully as they are remarkable quality items for the price.

Q.


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## Krispy (Nov 7, 2010)

The new font reminded me of something I couldn't quite put my finger on until I saw this...










Never been much of a fan but I would have considered buying this


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## reggie747 (Sep 10, 2013)

I think they've made a huge blooper with what I've seen.

Theres talk of them using some company to help change the image ? I'm guessing they wanna stick needles into theirs and the companies eyes so they can no longer read all the $h1t that's been written in the last 48hrs about it.

I think they've lost any kind of direction with this and dropped the ball and I wonder how they'll repair the damage that appears to have been done without the Mother of all U turns (which ain't gonna happen) cos they'll look like even bigger tosspots then.


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## ABaird3 (Apr 23, 2016)

Design critiques aside. I see this reaction on the tech forums I look at too. Whenever something new comes out a large crowd comes out and berates it.

People don't like change. And a lot of people very fervently don't like change.

Personally I'm relaxed about change, it happens, move on.


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## relaxer7 (Feb 18, 2016)

People need to chill about this :tongue: . At 12 years old it's hardly an established brand is it? :boxing: :boxing: :boxing:


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

All the points above are valid. It will be interesting to see what happens. That Waitrose watch is doing the rounds and is hardly the mocking response that they would have wanted. As far as I can tell, it first appeared on their facebook page.


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## Badcrumble (Nov 2, 2007)

I had considered buying another Chr Ward, I didn't mind the old 'new' logo but preferred the original on my mk1 Trident.

I love the 'fussiness' of my watch, some great details which are well executed. The watch in the first post looks...dull (to me).


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## Timez Own (Oct 19, 2013)

Krispy said:


> The new font reminded me of something I couldn't quite put my finger on until I saw this...
> 
> 
> 
> Never been much of a fan but I would have considered buying this


 That is a real eye opener. What a difference with such a small change! The first watch looks like something a child might get free with a comic! The second looks classy IMHO and something I would be very happy to wear.


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## gimli (Mar 24, 2016)

Am I the only one that believes that the watch would have simply looked better if they had, at least, put the "logo" in the usual place bellow 12 o'clock ?


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## badgersdad (May 16, 2014)

AVO said:


> I _LOVED _the CHR. WARD logo...deliciously idiosyncratic. I have three of those also.


 Exactly that. The new one looks like a cheap kick-starter. I could design that in Microsoft paint. Which is not a complement.


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## Badcrumble (Nov 2, 2007)

Timez Own said:


> That is a real eye opener. What a difference with such a small change! The first watch looks like something a child might get free with a comic! The second looks classy IMHO and something I would be very happy to wear.


 Totally agree.


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## mitadoc (Sep 25, 2010)

Cheap and non appealing. Sorry.


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

good luck with adding chrono dials to that branding

The fonts are even consistent on the dial


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## Qtronic (Jan 8, 2016)

Any word on the "street" Gossip on the low down here on the Christopher Ward forums/social media etc? I dont check, but would be interesting to know what the fans and Ward generals are up too on this "war"? ;-)

Q.


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## bf76 (May 11, 2016)

Former customer here. One word: awful.


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

The chap who runs the 'watch it all about' blog and affordable watch review website sent this tweet earlier. He's a CW forum member.

https://twitter.com/WatchItAllAbout?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

With the help of the forum, they're getting the website sorted, a lot of puke inducing drivel has been removed and links are actually beginning to work, but still massive concerns about the future direction of the company.

It's also possible an actual logo is emerging, as opposed the basic text.


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## reggie747 (Sep 10, 2013)

Caller said:


> The chap who runs the 'watch it all about' blog and affordable watch review website sent this tweet earlier. He's a CW forum member.
> 
> https://twitter.com/WatchItAllAbout?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
> 
> ...


 I sincerely hope so because what's gone on and what's been discussed since the "revelation" last Friday, I can't help but laugh my socks off at such woefully amateur behaviour.

I'll never take CW seriously EVER again. I'm thinking they've pretty much lost the plot (and some direction too) sadly...


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## Qtronic (Jan 8, 2016)

Thanks for the update, this will be an interesting telephone interview with Mike France, post the link please if you find it!

Cheers, Q.


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## RTM Boy (Jun 1, 2011)

Ooooh, er. What a palava. Although I can't say I'm bothered either way and can see what they are trying to do, I have two observations; as many a business has found to its cost, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and secondly if you are just going to use the company name as the 'logo' at least use a distinctive font that you can 'own'. Clean and modern thought it may be, the san serif they have chosen simply isn't distinctive enough to stand out symbolically for CW.

Did CW do any proper market research with existing and potential customers before or during the rebranding? Given the response, my guess is no. My guess is that "that would have cost money we don't want to spend" - something I hear all too often. Good market research is sneered at because most people (who don't understand how to do it properly) think it's not creative and is a waste of time because they already have an idea in their heads. Why pay a professional to test your ideas when you've made your mind up already?


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## Qtronic (Jan 8, 2016)

They could have choose:

*WardC*

or better

*WC*

They really need to get a logo/name sorted, 3 changes now since 2008..... They will sort it, their watches are good, very good!

Q.

CHRISTOPHER WARD

*TOPHER *

*CHRIST *

*HERWARD *

*TOPWARD *

*STWARD *

*CHRD*

*RISHERWARD *

So many letters to choose from, there should have been a Countdown episode/comp on the best name on their forums 

Q.


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## Qtronic (Jan 8, 2016)

Interview with Mike France @ Christopher Ward:

Interview on branding

Q.


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## James45 (Mar 10, 2016)

The new logo looks more modern for me. I prefer the old one. I'm a big fan of their CW C9


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## Krispy (Nov 7, 2010)

Are these the first new designs to use the new logo?

C9 DB4 '1 VEV' - £4k with a bit of an Aston Martin DB4 GT in it, limited to 19.










C9 D-Type - £3k with a bit of a Jag D Type which "is from one of the 18 racing models (*most probably *the one driven by Mike Hawthorn at Le Mans in 1955)"










They don't do anything for me - I'm reminded of G Gerlach when I look at them.

I quite like these though...but it looks like they've stopped the C5 Square?


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

So does having part of a fancy car in the watch offer added value to you? Seems a lame way of hitting an absurd price point. Are they no longer going for quality improvement and just focusing on gimmicks? Like buying a Seiko 5 for a grand because there is a diamond in the bezel. It's still a Seiko 5. Colour me unimpressed!


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Im afraid CW watches really don't do anything for me, no real innovation or outstanding design to hold my interest, its a shame as I admire them for trying to make it in a very crowded market, they look 'ok' but thats not really enough, lll always find something else to spend my money on. Those £4-5k ones above are taking the piss.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Krispy said:


> Are these the first new designs to use the new logo?
> 
> C9 DB4 '1 VEV' - £4k with a bit of an Aston Martin DB4 GT in it, limited to 19.
> 
> ...


 "Theme" watches for adults remind me of these.



















Sorry.


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

'Christopher Ward, complete with scrapyard junk' Yes, that has a ring to it... :teethsmile:


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## Jeremy Fisher (Jan 28, 2012)

hughlle said:


> So does having part of a fancy car in the watch offer added value to you? Seems a lame way of hitting an absurd price point. Are they no longer going for quality improvement and just focusing on gimmicks? Like buying a Seiko 5 for a grand because there is a diamond in the bezel. It's still a Seiko 5. Colour me unimpressed!


 The C9 range uses their fairly impressive in house movement, so the price isn't all novelty value. CW merged a few years ago with a Swiss movement manufacturer, and since then have been trying to break into the high end watch market with their C9 range.

The SH21 is very nice, if a bit spartan on the finishing.










Christopher Ward's movement arm also makes a handwinding version of the movement for Meistersinger which is much better decorated in my opinion.


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## Padders (Oct 21, 2008)

CW are a bit of a joke I am afraid. That bit about putting a slither of paint from a 1950s sports car in and charging and extra £3K is laughable and rather reminds me of the pens you used to be able to buy from the back of the Sunday paper magazines made from the oak of HMS victory, in amongst the Franklin mint plates. That said I find most of Bremont's output similarly contemptible and they do OK. I always think of CW as poor mans Bremont snd the latter as the CW for the nouveau riche. Neither will be troubling my watch box.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

I quite like this, but as in common with anything else on their site that I like, it's out of stock.


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

Jeremy Fisher said:


> The C9 range uses their fairly impressive in house movement, so the price isn't all novelty value. CW merged a few years ago with a Swiss movement manufacturer, and since then have been trying to break into the high end watch market with their C9 range.
> 
> The SH21 is very nice, if a bit spartan on the finishing.
> 
> ...


 It uses an ETA movement.


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Krispy said:


> Are these the first new designs to use the new logo?
> 
> C9 DB4 '1 VEV' - £4k with a bit of an Aston Martin DB4 GT in it, limited to 19.
> 
> ...





WRENCH said:


> I quite like this, but as in common with anything else on their site that I like, it's out of stock.


 None of those will be going on my wish list


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## tburkes (Aug 8, 2016)

I should definitely be hired as their graphic designer


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

It's believed the square slimline and others that have gone awol will re-appear with the new logo, it will be interesting to see what that looks like with the 'logo' at 9o/c. When the moonphase first came out, I thought it was great and I still like it to a degree, but the gloss went off when a member posted the Arnold version and sadly it appears CW went back to homage mode for this model when you consider the shape, size and location of the moonphase, although I know it has many fans. I did lose a bit of respect for them over this, but I still love my C60 vintage.


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## Krispy (Nov 7, 2010)

Caller said:


> It's believed the square slimline and others that have gone awol will re-appear with the new logo, it will be interesting to see what that looks like with the 'logo' at 9o/c.


 That's a shame, it's one of the only models of theirs I like. I see the white dialed versions are in the sale at the moment, I guess that means the blue ones were too?


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

Krispy said:


> That's a shame, it's one of the only models of theirs I like. I see the white dialed versions are in the sale at the moment, I guess that means the blue ones were too?


 I honestly don't know. The current sale appears to be ongoing without end and I haven't really bothered looking.


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## nordwulf (Aug 2, 2016)

They should have scrapped the current company name and find a new name with a real logo for the comapny and watches. I have a C60 and C65 with the old logo but don't care to own a Christopher watch. Chossing the name of one of the founders because it sounded the most British lacks imgainiation and passion for a brand. Unless that person is like a famous horological genius.

Rolex, Omega, Oris, Alpina, Eterna, Bremont are all short and strong names that are easy to pronounce abd with unique logos (except for Oris) among a few of the watch brands.


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## reggie747 (Sep 10, 2013)

nordwulf said:


> They should have scrapped the current company name and find a new name with a real logo for the comapny and watches. I have a C60 and C65 with the old logo but don't care to own a Christopher watch. Chossing the name of one of the founders because it sounded the most British lacks imgainiation and passion for a brand. Unless that person is like a famous horological genius.
> 
> Rolex, Omega, Oris, Alpina, Eterna, Bremont are all short and strong names that are easy to pronounce abd with unique logos (except for Oris) among a few of the watch brands.


 You mention owning 2 CW's but would you own Bremont (similar age company, British heritage (faux), but wild pricing) ! Not for me....


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## nordwulf (Aug 2, 2016)

I like Bremont better for theor logo and name. And Ward seems to take inspiration from Bremont and not the other way around. If they were selling at the same prices, I would choose Bremont over Ward.


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## reggie747 (Sep 10, 2013)

nordwulf said:


> I like Bremont better for theor logo and name. And Ward seems to take inspiration from Bremont and not the other way around. If they were selling at the same prices, I would choose Bremont over Ward.


 Even given the knowledge of their "in house" movement debacle ?


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## nordwulf (Aug 2, 2016)

I don't really know much about the Bremont company and their watches. As they are far out of my price, I only commented on their logo, name and watch designs.

By the way... my apologies for previous posts with spelling errors, I can't seem to find the Edit button on this forum..


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

nordwulf said:


> I don't really know much about the Bremont company and their watches. As they are far out of my price, I only commented on their logo, name and watch designs.
> 
> By the way... my apologies for previous posts with spelling errors, I can't seem to find the Edit button on this forum..


 I agree with your comments about Bremont and as for editing, you only get about 15 minutes after posting after which the edit option is removed. It's sadism by the mods so they can have a laugh at the rest of us!


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## Krispy (Nov 7, 2010)

They can't make their mind up on that logo, can they? Looks like a Timex to me.


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

To be fair to CW there is a cheaper variation of nearly every more expensive watch out there (look at the Rotary "Navitimer" for example) The main problem for CW for me is that they don't themselves seem to know what direction they want to go which is different from Bremont who in spite of their many critics, at least know what direction they want their company to go in and intend to take in just that direction. With CW its a bit all over the place, I feel far too much trying to sell to all budgets (From their entry level automatics to their more bespoke movement watches) which works great for Japanese companies like Orient, Seiko and Citizen but when you are a multi million pound company with several decades of pioneering watch making behind you its not a big problem what some may think of you or making the odd eyesore of a watch every now and again. When however, you have a small but dedicated following that now feel alienated, new buyers left with a watch that has now gone through its third logo change and a website that has a sale almost weekly and a rather confusing sales pitch its probably time to take a step back, take a breath and just slow down and concentrate on what you are best at, making affordable entry level watches while putting profit into making higher end watches with some unique movements.

I used to think it was something very British about knocking down our own companies, I don't really see the level of anger expressed by Germans or French regarding new companies being founded by their compatriots but on viewing watchuseek and some of the criticism of RGM or Shinola watch company perhaps its just an Anglo Saxon thing? That being said, it does annoy me seeing the English brothers at Bremont grinning at me like used car salesmen whenever I open a Bremont ad, the CW team slouching about like a group of lads on a ciggie break didn't help much either. Strange, you don't really see Nomos, Tourby, Muhle, Bruno Sohnle etc shoving their owners on their ad space its far more about the watch. The only comparison I can think if is Stowa but the owner is a watch maker in his own right so in that case its pretty understandable.


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

In fairness, of their latest two offerings with the new logo, this is the better received on the CW forum, albeit not escaping criticism. Mine being the condom hands and the fact it's DLC only. I like the skeleton hands in general, just not the two-tone design. I think the dial is great.

What is interesting is that the logo has changed from the original plans shown on the forum a couple of months back. In that version, the 'Christopher' started where the W of Ward is, meaning it entered the RHS of the dial, which looked really, really, weird, but fitted in with what we were told were their set in stone 'left aligned' plans for the new logo. So already they have already moved away the initial re-branding with the new logo.

But in general, I agree. They clearly haven't had a settled vision of the direction they want to go in. The new model above is a £1500 chronometer and packs a lot in for the price, but it is taking them into other folks territory, especially against pre-owned higher quality established brands.


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

The logo change is probably just to fit in with the chronograph dial, for the spec its not too bad for the price and while granted it does take them into a different league its more pre-owned vintage or entry level Sinn chronograph for example. I think right now their ball park for upper tier should be around the 1k bracket as they can pretty much be sure of selling and when the do make their regular sales it wont be so extreme.

They had the right idea when they introduced their 995 club with the jumping hour and world timer. Then bringing out a sale for the jumping hour at £600 didn't help though as anyone watching that will just hold onto their cash waiting for the others to drop. The moonphase sells reasonably well but their marine watch in spite of it having quite a high spec doesn't seem to move much but that may be because of the competition in that price bracket like Stowa who are cheaper and much more established.


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

*The logo change is probably just to fit in with the chronograph dial*

For some reason the quote button isn't working on Edge, so excuse my cut and paste.

I agree with what you say, the trouble is it's the first thing that everyone said, that left aligned will only really work at 9o/c and then most didn't like either the font used, or the left aligned, including me. But they said that's how it was and previously showed the above watch with both Christopher and Ward starting at the 1 of 12o/c. It just didn't work and they have changed it. It's just a nonsense really that has probably cost them a lot of money paid to the the design agency they used, although there is more that has changed than just the logo - or not as the case may be?


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## Badcrumble (Nov 2, 2007)

Caller said:


> *The logo change is probably just to fit in with the chronograph dial*
> 
> For some reason the quote button isn't working on Edge, so excuse my cut and paste.
> 
> I agree with what you say, the trouble is it's the first thing that everyone said, that left aligned will only really work at 9o/c and then most didn't like either the font used, or the left aligned, including me. But they said that's how it was and previously showed the above watch with both Christopher and Ward starting at the 1 of 12o/c. It just didn't work and they have changed it. It's just a nonsense really that has probably cost them a lot of money paid to the the design agency they used, although there is more that has changed than just the logo - or not as the case may be?


 It does feel like the design agency had a 'great idea for the brand' which included typography but they completely overlooked what the brand name would be used on - watch dials in all their wonderful variations.

And no-one had the courage to stand up and say 'this won't work'.

The company I work for went through a similar process recently but I have to say that the design agency did an excellent job - but then we had a small marketing department to iron out any creases - and the company name isn't used in the same way as on a watch.

I'll stick with my w-in-a-c mk1 Trident. The new logo / font does nothing for me other than detract from the watch dial.

And as for 'we can do a Bremont' putting bits of a car in a watch... Why bother? Or is the standing of a 'poor man's Bremont' higher than before?


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

Groupthink  beginning to seem like that to me. Can't see any other rationalisation for cannibalizing their brand.


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## Padders (Oct 21, 2008)

Just crap. It would have been more honest had they written Aldi on the dial. I can't begin to explain how disappointed the whole C Ward scenario makes me. It is Austin Rover all over again, British but crap and destined to disappoint and ultimately fail.

Oh and I think Bremont are a bunch of chancers also. Possibly the same bunch if the lack of style and imagination is any judge.


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Padders said:


> Just crap. It would have been more honest had they written Aldi on the dial. I can't begin to explain how disappointed the whole C Ward scenario makes me. It is Austin Rover all over again, British but crap and destined to disappoint and ultimately fail.
> 
> Oh and I think Bremont are a bunch of chancers also. Possibly the same bunch if the lack of style and imagination is any judge.


 Blimey that's harsh! The quality of CW is there at the price they offer (I have owned several and cant think of any I would regard as poor quality watches. Likewise, while I am not a big fan of Bremont designs and find the while English brothers cheesy grin and dubious stories about crashed planes in French villages cringe worthy I have never heard anything negative in regards to the quality of Bremont watches.

I don't know why English brands are so erratic, perhaps its the market they look at in the UK (Think Rotary and the like) that sell well to the UK public and think that's the way to go. Bremont seem to be keen to occupy the Archie Luxury "Mid tier dog poo" price bracket CW seem to be keen to occupy any niche that will take them. I really do hope CW settle down they had everything going for them, a small loyal fan base, a decent line up of watches that sold well, someone who could make bespoke movements for them and even buying a movement manufacture company so develop their own movements. There was a great deal of talk not so long ago that CW are setting themselves up to be sold off to a Chinese business like so many other small brands have been of late, the more I look at how they are going I cant help but think there may be so truth to that.


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## Gaspode (Mar 17, 2014)

ZenArcade said:


> .....There was a great deal of talk not so long ago that CW are setting themselves up to be sold off to a Chinese business like so many other small brands have been of late, the more I look at how they are going I cant help but think there may be so truth to that....


 I thought they'd already been bought - by Early Learning Centre (and I say that as the owner of 4 CWs (1 original logo and three 2nd gen)). I can't see myself every buying one with that logo (left-justified or whatever) - it just screams cheap and tacky.....


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

I have the 'Vintage' Trident C60 from CW and I think it's a great watch. I wouldn't have paid £599 for it, but paying £374 in a sale with free shipping to Thailand made it a great deal. The quality is very good IMO, especially for the price point. Some members on the forum obsess with comparing it to 'higher' brands but I think that's a waste of time. They should just accept it for what it is.

I think Padders criticism is OTT (sorry) and there are certainly some members there who have exceptional collections, coupled with a lot of knowledge that rivals many on here, that just enjoy the watches for what they are. CW just need to decide what it is they are actually seeking to achieve.That's been complicated by the merger with the Swiss group and part of the re-brand appears to be to accommodate them and move away from a specifically UK targeted brand that has picked up an audience from elsewhere almost by accident.

It's worth remembering that both CW and Bremont are relatively new Brands and there are bound to be errors along the way. Personally, I think we should applaud such British companies not just pour withering scorn on them. Criticise, yes, but it seems to me that some would be satisfied if they failed and I just don't get that.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

I'm a ponderer, I like these,










and I know, like Rolex, omega, Longines etc, if my pondering lasts for two years, the chances are this model will still be available, and it doesn't have bits of old cars and plane's attached. Imo a good classic design will beat gimmicks and re-brands, and last.


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## AVO (Nov 18, 2012)

Badcrumble said:


> And no-one had the courage to stand up and say 'this won't work'.


 The majority of the CW Forum said it loud and clear! But the deed was done.

The trouble is that throughout its existence the company has chopped and changed at an alarming rate. For an 11-year-old watch company it has an incredible number of discontinued models, Mk2/3 variants, entire women's range scrapped, two changes of logo.

I can't help admiring a company like Pinchbeck (though their prices are daft) - at least their basic models and brand image don't change with the wind direction and they manage to preserve some continuity.


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## reggie747 (Sep 10, 2013)

I am inclined to think that CW are just on a continual merry-go-round not knowing when or where to jump off.

I'm pretty damn sure they'll not see any more of my hard earned......(and to think how much I originally yearned for this beauty)


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## mitadoc (Sep 25, 2010)

They are just still struggling to find their identity.

Nothing wrong with this. Too common for new brands.

Cheers


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## Padders (Oct 21, 2008)

reggie747 said:


> I am inclined to think that CW are just on a continual merry-go-round not knowing when or where to jump off.
> 
> I'm pretty damn sure they'll not see any more of my hard earned......(and to think how much I originally yearned for this beauty)


 Now that is nice! I did like the various trident derivatives, a little derivative of the Omega SMP perhaps but this was forgivable at the price.

My earlier comment *was* over the top, as noted by others but I think I was letting my frustration and disappointment spill out into rant. Nevertheless the comparison with the disasters which befell the British car industry isn't all that far fetched. My main point is that the company's lack of joined up coherent planning has meant that they have more than once thrown the baby out with the bath water and given up on decent sellers like the above to instead concentrate on badly labelled overpriced tat which is destined for their website sales section. Straight to video watchmaking if you will.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

I wouldn't be critical of any of their watches, it's just most unusual for me to look at someone's entire catalogue and not see anything I like.


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## Krispy (Nov 7, 2010)

Why oh why?



















Looks even worse in white, IMO


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

I think the square Slimline is the only watch in the current CW range where the new "logo" actually works quite well. The sans serif font suits the relatively unadorned square case and simple dauphine hands.

I just might pre-order a blue one on brown leather strap.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Despite quite liking the above, I'm not generally a fan of the new "logo" and I've just spotted something funny (to me at least.)

Have you noticed that when you search Google for a particular company, along with the familiar list of search results, you often get a box on the right hand side of the results that contains specific company information including the company logo/emblem?

It's dependent on the country you're searching from, but here are examples of Rolex and Breitling searches on google.co.uk to illustrate:










Notice how, in each case, the company name is displayed top left in a sans serif font and the official logo/emblem is displayed to the right.

Now, let's try a search on "Christopher Ward":










That's going to look especially lame once Google picks up the new "logo" :laugh:

I'm no conspiracy theorist, but do you get the feeling that someone working on the new "logo" may have Googled the brand and thought, "Hey, yeah! That'll do!"?


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Krispy said:


> Why oh why?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 It actually doesn't look too bad, it gives it an even more 70s look. What destroys it is the other text on the dial which make it look like a printing error. You see the logo then see slimline underneath and think "Is that an error? Should it not be in the middle?" The fact that it has "Slimline" On the dial at all is a total disaster anyway.


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## Krispy (Nov 7, 2010)

I think you've got a point there, it would look much better with 'Slimline' opposite the logo...


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

I think the left aligned logo at 9o/c is awful. Period. It's just a gimmick that will look dated in no time and eventually dropped. Just look how many CW forum members have been snapping up the original version in the inevitable sale of the original watch, before the watch came out with the new logo.


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## RTM Boy (Jun 1, 2011)

Faffing about with logos is simply a substitute for having a properly thought-out marketing strategy based on a business strategy built around the company's reason to be.

On the CW website under 'Our Story' they state that CW came into existence to be "no ordinary watch brand" bringing "premium watches to as wide an audience as possible". Call me simples if you like, but the whole point of 'premium watches' is that they hold a premium based on a level of quality and exclusivity. I'm sure Rolex could massively expand its 'audience' as widely as possible by selling £400 watches, but what would that do to its 'premium' status? And what is an ordinary watch brand that CW is not? Seiko? Tissot? So CW is not ordinary, but wants to sell its products to as many people as possible? Mmmm, that makes sense...er...

They talk about the "Refresh and Rebrand", but do not explain why they did it, just some waffle about "reflecting our place in the watchmaking world" and "to point to were we are going". Where's that then, to hell in a handcart? Utterly meanlingless drivel.

This is all classic bad marketing; what in the trade they call an execution in search of a strategy.

I've nothing against their products, but CW needs to be clear about its position in the marketplace and the kind of wearers it wants buying its products, so that it can have a properly thought through business and marketing strategy that it can deliver products designed (and branded) at a price that the market understands consistently.


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## AVO (Nov 18, 2012)

RTM Boy said:


> I've nothing against their products, but CW needs to be clear about its position in the marketplace and the kind of wearers it wants buying its products, so that it can have a properly thought through business and marketing strategy that it can deliver products designed (and branded) at a price that the market understands consistently.


 There is much to agree with in what you say. Although I am a fan of the company and own six of their watches, I have felt for some time that they are probably trying to hard to be all things to all men. I do think they ought to decide which sector of the market they really belong in.


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

AVO said:


> There is much to agree with in what you say. Although I am a fan of the company and own six of their watches, I have felt for some time that they are probably trying to hard to be all things to all men. I do think they ought to decide which sector of the market they really belong in.


 Just deleted my response as that pretty much sums it up, CW need to be clear what direction they want to go. To move from having Christopher Ward on the logo to ChrWard because the other one is too long and not as eye catching enough only to then have Christopher Ward back again but to the left to make it more interesting! I mean what is the point? Why not just go back to the original logo? Then you have the position they want to place the brand its just all over the place, such a pity because its a company with a massive amount of promise.


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## Andern (Oct 28, 2015)

I have had a couple of CW watches in the past and I desperately want to like them more than I do but the fact they are all over the place at the moment coupled with the fact any watch you buy might be in next months clearance window is putting me off the brand. if it's working for them sales wise etc then that's great but for me as a buyer it's a no-no


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## stokey1986 (Sep 11, 2016)

Ive been looking at some of the CW watches and i do like them. Only thing putting me off is seeing that they have fairly substantial sales throughout the year so will wait for one of those opportune moments i think.


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