# Blancpain rolls watch



## Markkyle365 (Jan 26, 2020)

I'm new to the watch repair scene and was wondering if anyone could give me some more information on this vintage Rolls watch I've just bought, I can't find this model online anywhere, it has the letters RR on it.


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

JB (Blancpain) did produce a limited number of '*ROLLS*' timepieces with black dials, with this font, in the 1960's.

My understanding is none were produced with RR on the dial.

A picture of the above movement would enable me to give you a definitive answer.

Hope this helps.

:thumbsup:


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## Markkyle365 (Jan 26, 2020)

Here is the movement, maybe the RR was for someone specific with those initials


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

I don't believe this to be a timepiece produced by Blancpain.

Firstly, they did not produce that type of '*ROLLS'* font on your dial.

Secondly, their 60's movements would have been their own RAYVILLE SA movements. Rayville being the phonetic anagram of Villeret, the town where the company was established/based.

Hope this helps.

:thumbsup:


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## Markkyle365 (Jan 26, 2020)

I'm confused, one minute you said they did produce a black dial with this font and the next you are saying they didn't?


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

Karrusel said:


> JB (Blancpain) did produce a limited number of '*ROLLS*' timepieces with black dials, with *this* font, in the 1960's.
> 
> My understanding is none were produced with RR on the dial.
> 
> ...


 Does this clarify my point any further ?


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

It may also be of note that the brand name, "Rolls", was also registered by Ebel at the end of 1927.


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

> It may also be of note that the brand name, "Rolls", was also registered by Ebel at the end of 1927.


 Along with Corum Watch in 1987.

:thumbsup:


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Yes indeed, Alan. I didn't mention Corum because they didn't use the Rolls name until well after Mark's watch was produced. :biggrin:


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

> Yes indeed, Alan. I didn't mention Corum because they didn't use the Rolls name until well after Mark's watch was produced. :biggrin:


 Thanks Honour :thumbsup:

Also, there are also some poorly copied 'vintage' pieces emanating from the Far East now.

The OP probably doesn't want to hear my negativity on the attribution of his particular item, sorry, but I'm genuinely trying to be helpful!

He can always send it to Blancpain, if he doesn't agree ?


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

> It may also be of note that the brand name, "Rolls", was also registered by Ebel at the end of 1927.





Karrusel said:


> Along with Corum Watch in 1987.
> 
> :thumbsup:


 Looks like it was all the same trademark. And Corum took it over in 1977. Always block capitals though, never script.

N° 66141. 24 décembre 1927 Fabriqué Ebel, Blum et Cie., fabrication, La Chaux-de-Fonds (Suisse). Montres, parties de montres et étuis. ROLLS
N° 66141. Fabrique Ebel, Blum et Cie, La Chaux-de-Fonds. Transmission à Blancpain, Villeret (Suisse). Enregistré le 21 novembre 1930, 17 heures.
N° 66141. Blancpain, Villeret (Suisse). Transmission à Fabrique d'horlogerie Rayville S.A., Viileret (Suisse). Enregistré le 31 octobre 1946.
N° 123629. Date de dépôt: 7 février 1948, Fabrique d'horlogerie Rayville S. A. (Rayville Watch Manufacturing Co. Limited), Villeret (Berne, Suisse). Marque de fabrique. Renouvelle-
ment de la marque N° 66141. Le délai de protection résultant du renouvellement court depuis le 24 décembre 1947. Montres, parties de montres et étuis. ROLLS
N° 226762. Date de dépôt: 21 août 1967, Manufacture d'horlogerie Rayville S.A. Montres Blancpain,. Villeret. (Berne). - Fabrication. - Renouvellement avec extension de l'indication
des produits de la marque N» 123629. Raison modifiée. Le délai de protection résultant du renouvellement court depuis le 21 août 1967. Montres, mouvements de montres, cadrans de montres, parties de montres et tous autres produits horlogers. (Cl. int. 14) ROLLS
N° 226762 (ROLLS) Manufacture d'horlogerie Rayville S.A. Montres Blancpain, Villeret (Berne). - Transmission à «Corum», Ries, Bannwart et Cie, 37 bis, rue de la Combe-Grieurin, La Chaux-de-Fonds (Neuchâtel). - Enregistre le 22 novembre 1977.
N° 356849. Date de dépôt 19 Août 1987: Corum, Ries, Bannwart et Cie, succ. Jean-René Bannwart 1er Août, 2300 La Chaux-de-Fonds. - Fabrication et commerce: Transmission et renouvellement de la marque no 226762 de «Corum», Ries, Bannwart et Cie, La Chaux-de-Fonds. Le délai de protection résultant du renouvellement court depuis le 19 août 1987. Montres, mouvements de montres, cadrans de montres, tous autres produits horlogers. (Cl. int. 14) ROLLS


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

spinynorman said:


> Looks like it was all the same trademark. Always block capitals though,


 But JB did adopt some nuances with their ROLLS wordmark, sometimes it was omitted altogether!

In this example, & others I have, the wordmark is underlined & joined to the prominent S...



















One of my examples with no wordmark (on the dial)...



















The JB quality is clearly apparent (too me).

Any doubt then I suggest you get authentication, certification, & entry into their archives...










Finally, if you send a duffer, shonky, copy, cloned piece, you will probably not get it back! :bash:

:thumbsup:


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## Markkyle365 (Jan 26, 2020)

Thanks everyone for the information, the only thing I can add is I found the number 006 stamped under the balance wheel.


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## Balaton1109 (Jul 5, 2015)

Markkyle365 said:


> Thanks everyone for the information, the only thing I can add is I found the number 006 stamped under the balance wheel.


 I'm a bit late to this party and probably can't contribute to the Blancpain/Rolls debate but perhaps the OP has been misled, as I once was, by reading the number under the balance as "006". Turn that upside down and it would read "900" which was my eureka moment.

Thinking aloud, I wonder if this movement is a variant of the ETA 900 which came with several different bridge configurations but all with the same clicks, gear pivot placings, balance wheel positions, balance cock shapes and positions of the stem release screw, all similar to the movement shown here. An image of the keyless works would confirm it, but it may not be possible for the OP to provide a pic of the movement's dial side. That said, there apparently was a Freyco 006 calibre which sources equate to an ETA 925, but I have no details of either of these movements in my own notes.

I'll leave it to others to comment on whether Blancpain/Rolls were ever known to have used ETA or Freyco movements, or modifications thereof.

Regards.


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

Frederic-Emile Blancpain was a close associate & family friend of Anton Schild. They often collaborated whereby Anton Schild would provide base ebauches.

When AS merged with FHF (Fabrique d'Horlogerie de Fontainmelon) in the late 1920's (?) the two parties became Ebauches SA.

There are some examples using AS & FHF as a base movement.

I'm not aware that any 'ETA' movements were used in 'ROLLS' branded timepieces.

:thumbsup:


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Something that Honour referred to in his topic on the Rolls and Royce brands was a rather nice Landeron chronograph with the wordmark "Roll's", unfortunately obscured by the seller's determination to make a spurious association with Blancpain.










This isn't a one-off, another Roll's watch appears on JackOnTime. Apparently with a French movement (sadly not identified).










Probably doesn't get us anywhere, as the font still isn't a match.


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## Balaton1109 (Jul 5, 2015)

spinynorman said:


> Something that Honour referred to in his topic on the Rolls and Royce brands was a rather nice Landeron chronograph with the wordmark "Roll's", unfortunately obscured by the seller's determination to make a spurious association with Blancpain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 .....as well as having an apostrophe "s" :biggrin:


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Balaton1109 said:


> as well as having an apostrophe "s"


 Grocer's apostrophe. Details...details :biggrin:

I did think the apostrophe might have worn away. Honest.


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