# "tool" Watches



## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

Why is it that no one actually seems to wear so called "tool" watches, for their intended purpose?

In an earlier post, I jokingly commented along the lines that Pilots don't wear Pilots watches, Divers don't wear Diver's watches, etc. When I was leading in the Scottish mountains all last week, not one of the trained leaders was wearing a Protrek or Suunto (et al).

Most Mountain Leaders won't wear them because of most of the following:

1. The functions are a waste of money (IMO) and no substitute for essential skills.

I already have a compass and a backup compass if that fails. I don't need another, less functional one on my wrist. I don't need a altimeter. If I am halfway up a 3000ft mountain then I must be at about 1500ft, when I am at the top, I know I am at the top, because I can't go any higher. I have a map that tells me what height I am at all the time. And besides, when I am navigating - the height I am currently at, is that last thing I would need to know, if at all.

I don't need a thermometer to tell me if it is cold or hot - I know if it is cold or hot. Exactly how cold or hot it is, is of no use whatsoever to me.

I don't a barometer to tell me what the weather might do. Any Mountain Leader who does not have more than a fair idea of what the weather is going to do BEFORE he sets out, should not be on the hills.

2. The damm things are just too big.

No-one in their right mind would wear something the size of a small tuna can and costing upwards of 150 notes on their wrist if they were about to go scrambling up and down some very unforgiving and sharp rocks. They would wear something cheap and that they would not give a toss about getting bashed or broke.

3. They need batteries.

Anyone going into the mountains generally gives anything that they need to rely upon and that needs batteries, a fairly wide berth. Despite what is published, this includes all-singing all-dancing watches and GPS. I have yet to meet a ML that actually takes a GPS into the mountains and actually uses it to navigate with.

WHAT WE DO WEAR.

In the main, we do need to know the time. It is particularly useful to see how much daylight we have left. It is also useful if we are judging distance walked by timing. ANYTHING that fulfills this basic function is just fine. A stopwatch function can be handy too, when judging distances walked. Anything else is superflous.

Most MLs wear cheap Casios or Timex with plastic or fabric straps. Metal bracelets can be more dangerous if you slip and they catch on someting, leather straps tend to fall apart if continually wet. I normally wear a G-Shock, which has a stopwatch function, a timer function and an alarm (for when camping), I also hope that being a G-Shock, it can take a bashing. Its cheap and I don't give a monkey's whatsit if it gets trashed.

*SO OVER TO YOU ALL.*

Pilots: Why don't you wear "Pilot's" watches? What do you wear and why?

Divers: Why don't you wear "Diver's" watches? What do you wear and why?

Any other categories? I'm very interested to know.


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Well I` m a nurse and I`d _Never_ wear a Nurses Fob Watch
















A watch with an easy to see second hand is useful so no small sub dials ( the Glycine Incursore is ok as its very legible) and a chronograph or rotating bezel is useful for `Observations`


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2005)

ESL said:


> Why is it that no one actually seems to wear so called "tool" watches, for their intended purpose?
> 
> In an earlier post, I jokingly commented along the lines that Pilots don't wear Pilots watches, Divers don't wear Diver's watches, etc. When I was leading in the Scottish mountains all last week, not one of the trained leaders was wearing a Protrek or Suunto (et al).
> 
> ...


George, most tool watches are probably superfluous nowadays they are just toys.

In the old days a pilot would use a Navitimer to work out stuff via its slide rule or use his hacking MK 11 to check out way points, today its all computers.

Same with dive watches IMO. All divers I have met use dive computers, of course many use a dive watch as a back up.

I like to think that tool watches like the Sub, Navitimer, GMT etc hark back to a time where not everything was run by computers.

They are possibly an anachronsim but a nice one.


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## Roger (May 17, 2003)

> When I was leading in the Scottish mountains all last week


Any signs of the Yeti?


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## Nalu (Nov 28, 2003)

neil said:


> In the old days a pilot would use a Navitimer to work out stuff via its slide rule or use his hacking MK 11 to check out way points, today its all computers.
> 
> Same with dive watches IMO. All divers I have met use dive computers, of course many use a dive watch as a back up.
> 
> ...


The facile answer to George's question is that recreational pilots and divers are increasingly untrained on slide rules and dive tables. Why wear a watch when you don't know what to do with it? It's a significant safety issue in what is supposed to be a leisure time activity.

The best pilots and divers I know (and the ones I prefer to work with) are just as facile with a map, slide rule and stubby pencil as with a configurable glass cockpit; just as likely to use a watch and a table as a dive computer. I've a mate who swaps gasses and does the calculations on the fly







. They are professionals, and not just because it says so on their watch









As far as the Suunto 'wrist-top computers' go, I'll agree with ESL - for mountain guides. But what about the trooper who parachutes or swims to work? The one who rides in a helicopter that _sometimes_ leaves him in a spot other than what was planned (see my 2nd paragraph







). He'd best know how to use a map, compass and terrain association, but he'll do well to have a Vector with him as a quick reference (ever try to read a map while running cross country with a ruck on your back?). Batteries are a hassle, but easier to come by all the time. Besides, I always have a manual wind as a backup to my backup


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## bry1975 (Feb 6, 2004)

Wha lol Diver's watches were never ment for the Sea
















They were ment for the Bedroom





















, well that's what I always thought, lol you'd never take a Rolex into the sea, but the bedroom yes lol.


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## marius (Mar 11, 2005)

ESL said:


> Why is it that no one actually seems to wear so called "tool" watches, for their intended purpose?
> 
> In an earlier post, I jokingly commented along the lines that Pilots don't wear Pilots watches, Divers don't wear Diver's watches, etc. When I was leading in the Scottish mountains all last week, not one of the trained leaders was wearing a Protrek or Suunto (et al).
> 
> ...


George. Morning. I am not a diver, pilot, or a nurse, but I do like some of the stuff that I perceive as "tools of the trade" for these professions. It may have something to do with quietly wanting to be a diver or a pilot. I remember that there was a time (and it might still be going on) that a specific style of dark glasses was extremely popular, because once you put those on your face, every girl in the world just HAD to know that you MUST be a fighter pilot. It matters not that actual fighter pilots never whore them, the issue was that everyone THOUGHT that fighter pilots wore them. So, I guess it starts off with an immage issue, or 'perceived' immage issue, and then, you get hooked. I dont care anymore if anyone thinks I am a mountain climber or hot air balloon pilot or not. (maybe a little) I just like gadgets. I would buy a petrol driven wristwatch for the gadget value, as long as I can afford to put petrol in it every once in while...


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

marius said:


> I just like gadgets. I would buy a petrol driven wristwatch for the gadget value, as long as I can afford to put petrol in it every once in while...
> 
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Sorry this is







however in view of the above statement you might like this....

http://www.rltwatches.co.uk/forums/index.p...=weirdest+watch


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Interesting post George









IMO these tools watches pander to the vanity of the male species







We like to think we are something we are not and there is no easier way to play act than to have a few gadgets









I have often thought about buying a whizz bang Casio and at those moments I can actually imagine myself using, nay, needing an Altimeter/Thermometer/ Compass









I was in the Dales at the weekend and every man in his family tin box seemed to have a dash mounted GPS system. They all, of course, needed this gadget to find their way from Leeds/Bradford to Malham it is after all just over 20 miles.









I am about to embark on a 3000 mile trip on my trusty Â£600 GT550 and I know that when I get to the ferry there will be all manner of squillion pound Paris/Dakar look-a-likes all doing a day trip to France and believing they are adventurers, how I laugh


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## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

MarkF said:


> Interesting post George
> 
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In many respects, I think I would have to agree Mark. For me, the easiest way to spot a wannabe Mountain Leader on a hill, is to look at his watch, or see if he is peering at a GPS to see where he thinks he is







.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against all this gadgetry and/or functionality - I just believe that it doesn't actually get used by it's manufacturers target buyers. For example, a pure GPS unit (i.e. not something with maps etc.) is of little or no use to your average land based person, other than telling you where you are.

And even if you get one with maps - it still aint gonna show how to get of a mountain safely!


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## pcn1 (Jul 10, 2004)

I bought my first auto watch last year (Seiko 200m pepsi on rubber) for two reasons:

1) To see if I could live with a auto after having cheap non-discript quartz all my life. At Â£100 I think they are great value.

2) So I could have a proper diving watch to do my PADI course with. I also wear it for work and lesuire.

Initally I was surprised that it ran +2mins every week







, but after a while I kind of "relaxed" about the pin point accuracy thing and just enjoyed the watch. (The watch seems to have relaxed as well and runs more accurate







, but I dont really keep a day to day track of it)

This gave me the confidence to buy the Seamaster auto as a "Best" watch. However I have decided that the seamaster will be no pampered trinklet all its life and I intend to swim and dive with it when the conditions are OK, but not to rough as it is bloody expensive. The Seiko can handle the more physical knocking around like surfing, diving, making sand castles etc....









So I will at least try to use the watches for there intended purpose, but If I never did anything more than take a bath I think I would still wear my seamaster as It is such a great looking watch. Most things I do in life as a family man are "sensible", so its nice to do something crazy in your life if it makes you happy


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Is a Rolex a tool watch to a Managing Director?


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## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

jasonm said:


> Is a Rolex a tool watch to a Managing Director?
> 
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> 
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Maybe a "Tool" wearing a watch..


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

When I'm in the mountains I _always_ take either my Avocet Vertech Alpine or Suunto X-Lander.

The altimeter can be useful as a navigational aid in white out conditions. As a basic example, if you're descending and you know that there's a crag or some other dangerous obstacle at 800m you can check on your altimeter whether you're above or below it.

When ascending I sometimes use the altimeter for "encouragement". There's nothing more frustrating than cresting a false ridge that you thought was the top







At least looking at the altimeter you can see you only have another 100m...75m...50m...etc.









The barometer functions are interesting but not of any real, practical use.

The compass on the Suunto is a complete waste of time. I've never bothered with GPS except for other, totally unrelated, uses.

By the way, the only other battery-operated item I take is a head torch. If you're trying to dig a snow hole in the dark (or need to "go" in the night) this comes in very handy indeed


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## Another_Dom (Apr 5, 2005)

Hello all,

Just joined the forum but have been 'lurking' for a while. I agree with George's observation - I am waiting on a Fortis Cosmonaut at the moment and I'm certainly unlikely to be doing that!

However, Rich is absolutely right about the uses of an altimeter when navigating in certain areas and conditions. Lesser travelled areas of the world are often not as well mapped as here, however there will often be air charts available which give accurate ground heights. Also, as George will no doubt agree it can be very difficult to maintain elevation whilst trying to contour. That said, I don't own a Vector etc and don't know how accurate they are. Obviously they will need calibrating with known heights as the weather changes etc. Easy enough in the UK with plenty of spot heights and trig points, but elsewhere?

So - anyone on here really using their circular slide rules or tachymetres? Breitling seem particularly bad for 'filling face space'.

Cheers,

Dom.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Welcome to the forum Dom. I've carried out a group test of the Suunto, Avocet and an early G-Shock with altimeter. They seem very accurate (to within a few metres along as you calibrate them regularly) but I've found that their readings can differ by 10m or so at any one time whilst your on the move, seemingly because each watch reacts to changes in pressure at a slightly different rate.

Tachymetre bezels? Nope, never had use for one


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## Roger (May 17, 2003)

> Is a Rolex a tool watch to a Managing Director?


Not if he has good taste.


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Welcome to the forum Dom...

As for the Rolex thing, Ive really come around from being not fussed about them and believing the cliches to really admiring them and wanting one









Look beyond the 'image' and Ive come to respect them a lot.


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## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

Well, I've never been on a mountain in a position where an altimeter would have helped.

Yeah, contouring can be problematical, but with enough practice, even contouring is straightforward enough. As for GPS, a GPS can be downright dangerous on the hills if you don't appreciate what its actually useful for, what it can tell you and especially what it can't tell you.

That's just me - other people might use electronics for this sort of stuff, but no ML I have ever met does. There is no substitute for experience in the basic skills of using a map and compass.

Of course you can USE electronics on the hills, people are free to use whatever they want for whatever reason they want. But you don't NEED electronics on the hills.


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Here is a tool watch that I can relate to


















Cheers

Paul


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## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

OK, I give in... That one I could use.


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## Another_Dom (Apr 5, 2005)

Thanks all for the welcome.

I am suitably impressed if these watches can hold a decent accuracy. Wasn't that long ago we were reliant on hypsometers to 'guess' altitude.

George, I absolutely agree there is no substitute for knowledge and experience - but you must admit that GPS makes things a lot easier for the sensible user! (I don't own one, but use them for work from time to time). Oh, and I never rely on anything that uses batteries, though the head torch recommendation was spot on.

Just got a lovely Omega pocket watch through from the States. I've never owned one before but quite fancied one. Anyone got any good links for pocket watches - history, dating etc?


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## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

> George, I absolutely agree there is no substitute for knowledge and experience - but you must admit that GPS makes things a lot easier for the sensible user!
> 
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Welcome to the forum.









As an aid in certain circumstances they have their uses, I agree. But they are not the "only" thing for use in any particular circumstance. Try using one in a steep sided valley and you'll find out what I mean. And if anyone ever tries to get off something like the summit of Ben Nevis in a white out by using it to walk on a bearing to the pony track, they had better take a parachute as well!


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## Another_Dom (Apr 5, 2005)

Fair one George,

Not great at ground level when they can only 'see' straight up! Of course taking visual bearings in steep sided valleys is entertaining as well









Back to tool watches - I am sure I've seen a watch advertised somewhere with a hex drive on the case and screwdriver bits on the strap. Anyone else seen this?

A real tool watch.

Dom.


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## abraxas (Oct 21, 2003)

... and now for something different.









I work in a casino and I never owned or used a Cartier Tank. They are popular with casino stuff because they are small (the size of a postage stamp) and square, which means you cannot hide round casino-chips behind them.

john


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

welcome to the forum Dom.

I keep toying with getting a slide rule and re learning how to use it, then I think why bother so I dont.

I do use the 60 minute bezel on my diver when cooking, timing the roasts etc.

I have never used a chrono for timing anything, just play with it to watch the flyback!


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Tool? Honest?

This is a watch, it is a tool (it tells the time) and it seems honest enough.

There are two of them in the picture and they serve me very well.









In my current environment.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

we've got gps in our works van.

I inputted a NGR incorrectly by one letter.

Couldn't understand why it had given me a 9 hour drive time









When I looked at the location it was in the middle of the North sea, and it would appear that the mean average the software works on for sea is 10 MPH.

Not bad for a VW van! I didn't fancy the swim though not with my slava, but if I'd had my "11" then perhaps I would have tried it!


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

abraxas said:


> ... and now for something different.
> 
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> 
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ohhhhh I did not know that John, you are lucky. I would love to work in a casino.


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## abraxas (Oct 21, 2003)

Roy said:


> ..................................................
> 
> ohhhhh I did not know that John, you are lucky. I would love to work in a casino.
> 
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I would love to be a watchmaker.

Casino work is nothing like in the the movies. The reality is halfway between a whorehouse and a psychiatric hospital. We basically stand around looking after people making asses of themselves. I have been very fortunate to be mostly working at the upper end of the market (the top actually) and rich (and powerful) people tend to be nicer but not always.

One thing nice is ... thatâ€™s it is a very watch rich environment and I get the chance to see and handle a lot of good watches. Most gamblers like watches. A foreign gent I know never buys anything below Â£60-Â£70K and has over 125 of them. The weirdest watch Iâ€™ve ever seen was a VC Mercator on a young rich twat (sorry, he was) and the nicest recent an AP Royal Oak 3 axisTourbillon. The Tourbillon element was delightful ... looked like a insect trying to get out. (I canâ€™t see anywhere online so it must have been a special). Most of the large Swiss companies work behind the scenes for â€˜special customersâ€™.

Trust me ... itâ€™s better to be poor. At least while you are poor you think that money will make you happy. The rich have nothing to fall back on.

john


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## Another_Dom (Apr 5, 2005)

abraxas said:


> Trust me ... itâ€™s better to be poor. At least while you are poor you think that money will make you happy. The rich have nothing to fall back on.
> 
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Brilliant.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

abraxas said:


> The reality is halfway between a whorehouse and a psychiatric hospital. We basically stand around looking after people making asses of themselves.
> 
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> 
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