# Military Pocket Watches



## Galea

Anyone here collects military pocket watches?

Here are some pics of my GSTP's:










Buren, Damas, Cyma, Doxa, Elgin, Grana.










Helvetia, Leonidas, Marvin, Moeris, Jaeger Le Coultre, Omega.










3 Walthams, Recta, 2 Unnamed

Regards,

Joseph


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## rhaythorne

Superb. I've been meaning to get some GSTP pocket watches for ages but never seem to get around to it. The only similar thing I've got so far is this modern CWC


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## James

Good selection of a collection


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## pg tips

that jlc just oozes quality, lovely


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## rhaythorne

Well, I finally got around to buying some of these. Some of you may recognise them from another online dealer's stock. I decided to bag the lot in one go... hey presto, instant GSTP collection!









*CYMA*










*Helvetia*










*Unbranded #1*










*Unbranded #2*










*Unbranded #3*










I plan to get at least seven more as they came in a nice box with space for a dozen pocket watches


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## Mikrolisk

Cool! A really nice collection! But I am still missing Hamilton watches.

Andreas 'without any military watch'


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## rhaythorne

Three more WW2 era, military pocket watches landed today









First up, a no-make 6E/50 RAF observer's/navigator's watch. Basically the same as the army issue G.S.T.P's above except for being non-luminous:










Next, an American-made Elgin, 7-jewel, Grade 291, circa 1941, exported to England and issued to the British army as a GS MkII general service timepiece. This one appears to have an original (or very old, at least) lanyard and its original crystal which displays some scary Radium burns from the luminous dial:










And lastly, a Zenith HS3. These were first issued to the Royal Navy Hydrographic Service around 1942 and, after the end of the Second World War, were returned to the admiralty at Herstmonceaux Castle where the original dials were replaced with ones like the example below. On this dial, basic time-telling functions were relegated to the small centre scale, with seconds/minutes being read from the middle scale, emphasised in red. The outer scale shows 10th's/100ths. of a minute. The casebacks had the orignal HS3 markings struck out and replaced by NATO stock numbers. The issue number corresponds to the last four digits of the movement serial number. I think you have to handle one of these watches to really appreciate what a serious peice of kit it is!


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## Griff

Excellent to see such quality pocket watches.....superb!!


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## rhaythorne

Glad to see I'm not alone in appreciating them. And for those that are interested in what makes 'em tick...

*Part 1 - G.S.T.P's:*

*CYMA*










*Helvetia (General Watch Co.)*










*Unbranded #1*










*Unbranded #2*










*Unbranded #3*


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## rhaythorne

*Part 2 - 6E/50, GS MkII and HS3:*

*6E/50 RAF Observer's/Navigator's watch*










*Elgin GS MkII (i)*










*Elgin GS MkII (ii)*










*Zenith HS3*


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## rhaythorne

-2.14 seconds per day, tested over 6 days in 6 positions


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## lebaron

rhaythorne said:


> Superb. I've been meaning to get some GSTP pocket watches for ages but never seem to get around to it. The only similar thing I've got so far is this modern CWC


I see your cwc is no longer avaialble, what movt. does it use? (V. nice btw)


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## river rat

Here are some of mine I am getting more into to collecting military watches these day's










Helvetia GS/TP










Hamilton 2794B comparing watch










Elgin GCT Navigation watch










Hamiton model 23


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## ValvesRule

>


Interesting regulator arrangement. Never seen that before. Has it a name?


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## rhaythorne

@lebaron - the CWC pocket watches crop up on eBay occasionally, especially the older ones without the oval around the logo. I've never been able to get the back off to confirm which movement is used (I tried again just now with no success, it's on too tight to budge) but I'd be very surprised if it was anything other than a Unitas 6497 or 6498.

@river rat - very nice, especially the Hamilton chrono and the Elgin GCT. I might have to see about getting one of those. Is GCT "Greenwich Civil Time" or "General something Timer" perhaps? :huh:

@ValvesRule - I've wondered that myself. A type of swan neck regulator with micrometer adjustment perhaps? Not being a watchmaker, I don't know for sure.


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## river rat

Your right about the GCT Greenwich Civil Time Elgin used the BW Raymond movement for there's you see less of these then you had the 4992B made by Hamilton another GCT watch.


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## willranoe

I've got a feeling my pocket watches are military related. I'd love to know something about them if anyone can help. I've no idea about the age of the Helvetia but I can see the numbers: 56, 14k (i found to be 14 carat), 0.585 and 3716285. Is it possible to work out a date from that I wonder.

The white faced clock seems to be from circa 1905, neal's st. brighton, 449028 D case, 44137, 7 jewels.

I suppose what I need is a valuation. Can anyone help? Otherwise any information would be greatly appreciated. Also, please let me know if you would be interested in them.

Thanks in advance. Will Ranoe


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## Shangas

Can someone explain to me why military pocket watches continued to exist after WWI? I always thought that it was the relative inconvenience of a pocket watch that caused it to be phased OUT of the military instead. Why were they continued to be made for the army/navy/air-force, if wristwatches were available?


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## river rat

Shangas said:


> Can someone explain to me why military pocket watches continued to exist after WWI? I always thought that it was the relative inconvenience of a pocket watch that caused it to be phased OUT of the military instead. Why were they continued to be made for the army/navy/air-force, if wristwatches were available?


Pocket watches were used by the military by various branches that needed precision timing for artillery,airborne,transportation operations.And also better one's for the Airforce and Navy for navigation.And they varied in constuction in size apperance and parts for the American military Elgin,Hamilton,Waltham were the main brands remember pocket watches were still being made and sold up to the 1950's by these companies the military took any thing they could buy to get the job done and these watches did the job.Some had as little as 7 jewel to as many as 22 jewels.And they did keep better time than the wrist watch of the day.A plus for Navigtion no GPS in WW2.


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## Shangas

Oh I see...thanks R/Rat!


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## seemore

I have an old Zenith wrist watch with the same regulater, the wathmaker said it was a goose neck regulater because of the shape i suppose probably not the technical name though.


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## Shangas

There is a specific name for it, micro-something-or-other regulator...I forget the full term.


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## Dunwerkin

rhaythorne

Just found this old topic with the GSTP watches. Yours is a nice collection, probably a lot bigger by now perhaps?

I have a watch which appears to be identical to your Unbranded #1

There are not many clues as to the manufacturer, but I notice that the movement back plate has a tiny "star" on it rather like the Zenith star logo.

Do you think there is any mileage in that idea? I know they made GSTP's of a different pattern signed Zenith.

Hope you pick this up.


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## rhaythorne

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Hmm, interesting idea. Â I guess it's possible although neither of my Zenith branded pocket watches have the star on the movement and the Zenith logo is usually a shield containing a star above a "Z", I think.Â Â But I suppose they might have produced a relatively anonymous movement with a single star on it.

Perhaps the best way to find out is to ask someone with a better knowledge of pocket watch movements if they recognise who made this:










Or, if yours is different in some way, post a pic of that and we'll take a look


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## Dunwerkin

Hi - Apologies for delay in replying, I haven't been near a PC

Mine is identical, I can't find a single feature on the movement or the face that is different to yours. I can't get a decent photo unfortunately but it will look just the same.

I have asked Zenith if they produced watches with just a star on the movement at all. That was a week ago and they haven't said no yet, all I have had is an "out of office" reply for last weekend. When I hear from them I will let you know.

I have seen older Zenith wrist watches with just a star above the Zenith. It was seeing that that gave me the thought in the first place.

Thanks for your help

â€œReal knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance" - *Confucius*


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## rodneylynn1977

Are any of these worth anything? I have a watch like the one in the unbranded #3 6E/50 and another number that is B5774

Just curious I know nothing about them. It was my grandfathers and I didn't even know it worked until I wound it up last night and it is keeping great time.



rhaythorne said:


> Well, I finally got around to buying some of these. Some of you may recognise them from another online dealer's stock. I decided to bag the lot in one go... hey presto, instant GSTP collection!
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> *Unbranded #1*
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> I plan to get at least seven more as they came in a nice box with space for a dozen pocket watches


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## rodneylynn1977




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## JackPriest

I have a pocket watch that is Identical to the unbranded number 1 but il roughy condition I think the wear shows it's age and I like it. I was wondering if anyone could give me an estimated value on it please ?

Thank you to anyone who can help


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## mach 0.0013137

Mel`s not online at the moment but his post below covers the forum`s position on valuations...



mel said:


> No one on the The Watch Forum is a Professional Appraiser or Valuation Expert, and therefore, we cannot offer any kind
> 
> of valuation or appraisal service. All of our members are enthusiastic watch collectors with some experience in restoration and
> 
> collecting, so we can say that from our experience, any watch is simply worth what someone will pay you for it. Condition is
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> paramount - a watch in an "as new" condition, in original condition, and with box and papers, warranty and paperwork,
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> will always be worth more than one that has been languishing at the back of a drawer for many years.
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> You may be able to get a ballpark figure for the value of a watch by scanning the completed listings for your watch, or a very
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> similar one, on any of the major Internet Auction Sites. A valuation for Insurance purposes can normally only be given by a
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> reputable and qualified watchmaker.
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> Posted on behalf of the Forum
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> Mel
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> (as Valuations Request Monitor :lol: )
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> Above is our "official" position, the other replies you have are perfectly valid, as an independent forum we cannot be seen to
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> offer nor are qualified to offer "Professional Services"
> 
> Welcome to :rltb:


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## malpos

Hello, I am following your forum, because I inherited a strange pocket watch, very old and I would like to know a little of its history.

On the bottom is written GS Mk ll up arrow and down a number B 46020, the written gs mk ll is plotted as two lines. Quadrant there are no logos, in only 15 jewels and made â€‹â€‹in Switzerland, if you kindly someone tells me how to put the photos I'll show you.

Thanks


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## malpos

ok I found the system to show the clock ....


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## Thomasr

Here's my current fave in my collection. Had it on the timing machine and it accurate to around 4-5 seconds a day!!! Very Pleased when I found this out


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## Will Fly

Jaeger-Le-Coultre military watches are much sought after - and rightly so. Lovely movements.


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## JWL940

Thomasr

Here's a very Q&D photo of my JLC, notice the very subtle differences in the face. This one is of the accurate twice a day varity rather than 4-5 seconds a day and it's currently in the queue for the watchmakers bench along with the other two in the following photos. It's GSTP number is M 43877. What's the secret for getting rid of the yellowing in the 'crystal?'


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## Thomasr

*JWL940*

mine is stamped gstp f011247. I've had two of the JLC military ones and both have had glass instead of plastic. Mine used to have the same face as that but 90% of the Luminous stuff was detached and rattling around in there so I took the remainder off so it looked better.


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## JWL940

Even so yours has a truncated '6', mine hasn't. Mine has lozengers at 3, 6, 9 & 12 yours doesn't. What a shame the movement serial numbers are not easily accessible, it would be interesting to compare their ages.


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## Thomasr

had a quick look online for a serial lookup, nothing found :-(


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## Thomasr

What do you think you are doing? do not tarnish this forum with your private tugging collection. Find something better to do with your life!!!


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## mel

Ignore Thomas, and use the report button - - greyed out to the left of Multiquote, direct line to Mods.


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## Themonty73

Hi guys,

Wow some lovely watches on display, do love to see the movements in what makes them tick. Keep up the pics gents.


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## JWL940

Unfortunately while they all have movements they don't necessarily tick ;-(


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## yesenoj

I don't have any pocket watches currently, but this thread is making me want to remedy this situation  The movements are stunning.


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## Regox

As usual, please forgive my photography skills. This one I got a while back, and is currently on the "to be fixed" queue that never seems to end.... That said, I especially love it due to it having a protective case from the right era that came with the watch, with economy glass intact.



Spoiler

















Spoiler

















Spoiler

















Spoiler


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## journeyman

Can anyone help please? My wife has just come across a GSTP pocket watch with the broad arrow above gstp, and a number, We have been lead to beleive that this was the persons military pay No. We were not sure if it was her grandads ww1 or fathers ww2.

We took it (and waited for ages) toan auction room, where a guy looked at it said ww2 and handed it back. we know nothing else. It has luminious hands, also 3,6,9,and 12, a small dial at the base of the watch face, (seconds) and thats it. I have seen some pctures that have a makers name on,some others have Swiss Made at the bottom, but this has nothing at all, i have seen on various forums that by taking the back off, it could reveal more, IE how many jewels, brand name,movement markings etc, but am reluctant to try and remove the back.

I have read that some are snap back, some screw, ive tried one suggestion "putting the mariglods on for better grip, but can not turn anything. Am very afraid to try and force back off. It has been in a drawer for the last 30/40 years till it was found, it winds ok keeps perfect time (after all these years), but would just like to know how to find out anything about it.Thanks in advance for any suggestions that may be forthcoming. :thumbup:

PS forgot to say the main face is black, chain is silver, has a letter "B" with a lion lying down stamped on it.


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## John Herbert

Im looking a military pocket watch dated 1982 to mark my dads 39 years of service can anyone help me?


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## Karrusel

1982 pocket watch?... let us know when you find one!

Mechanical, forces issued, pocket watches had become obsolete by the end of the 1940's.

By 1980 British forces were equipped with those quartz powered wristwatches.


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