# Garage Bill, Opinions Welcomed!



## scottishcammy (Jul 11, 2003)

Chaps,

put my 2001 Zafira 2L Dti in for it's MOT today. Up until now it's mainly consisted of the odd bulb, nothing more than a few quid. Here's the bad news, it needs:

New front bulbs

New handbrake

new brake pipes, front & rear (corroded)

Near side track rod end (worn)

Rear brake discs (pitted & scored) & new pads

7 hours labour =

Â£527 

Does that sound about right to those in the know (of which I'm not one  )?


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## thunderbolt (May 19, 2007)

I'm assuming it's a main dealer, if so Â£75.00 ph labour is about right. Try a one man band outfit if you can and you'll probably halve that.


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## scottishcammy (Jul 11, 2003)

thunderbolt said:


> I'm assuming it's a main dealer, if so Â£75.00 ph labour is about right. Try a one man band outfit if you can and you'll probably halve that.


Sorry, I've maybe not explained it fully, the Â£527 is the total amount, including labour.


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## Alas (Jun 18, 2006)

Can't help you out regarding your bill but how about this for a garage story.

We are restricted with what garages we use here that are local so in the past we have tended to put our cars into the local Honda or Toyota dealers. They are pricey but saved a trip to Glasgow and the associated wandering about.

Wifes car (Saab) started to have problems starting where it would turnover, start and then stop. After a few goes it would start and then keep going. It was getting worse so as the Honda dealer is across the road from her work she booked it in there. Also asked for an oil change as it's a diesel and likes to get it changed every 6k. She was told any day so she picked the Wednesday. Car sat in the street all day and was never moved. She went round to the garage at closing and was told ' Sorry we didn't have time'

So next day booked in again and they promised to phone her by lunchtime.







She phoned the in the afternoon and got the MD who we know and he said he would sort it. Goes back at 5 to be told 'We put it on the diagnostics and it showed a leak but as its a Saab our diagnostic was wrong as there is no leak :huh: ' She asked was anything done such as the oil change and was told no.

Next day after phoning a Saab garage(private) in Glasgow she took it up, waited the 2 hours they said to do the job, (had it washed and hoovered by them gratis as usual) and drove home happy with the car fixed.

Week ago a bill arrives at the house from the Honda garage for the oil change, diagnostics and fixing the leak plus about 4 hrs labour. Car had sat in the street for 14 of the 16 hours they had it. She went in to see them (slightly angry) and after speaking first to the receptionist, then the mechanic, then the service manager and finally the MD was told it would be sorted. Couple of days later another bill arrives for the same amount  Thus time I phoned them. Was told it would def be sorted and the bill cancelled this time.

.....

.....

.....

.....

2 days ago I got a statement telling me I still owed them the money. I haven't phoned yet :lol:


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## thunderbolt (May 19, 2007)

scottishcammy said:


> thunderbolt said:
> 
> 
> > I'm assuming it's a main dealer, if so Â£75.00 ph labour is about right. Try a one man band outfit if you can and you'll probably halve that.
> ...


That's a bit more like it. Still sounds a wee bit steep though. Try a few small places as I'm sure you could save yourself a couple of hundred quid on that price.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

H'mmm.............seems a bit too much wrong all at the same time to me. :dontgetit:


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2009)

They are easy enough jobs to do, get yourself a haynes manual and have a go yourself.

Bulbs - straightforward replacement, nothing difficult in that.

Handbrake - presumably a worn ratchet (in future push the button in when you apply the handbrake  ), again a basic spanner job, source a replacement from the local scrappie.

Brake pipes - probably minor surface corrossion, a wire brush should sort that out. It'll be checked when you re MOT it.

Track rod end - buy a ball joint separator, and it then becomes another basic spanner job, then take it to a local tyre place to have the geometry checked and adjusted.

Rear Discs and pads - another straightforward job, you don't even have to disconnect the hydraulics so no problems with bleeding.

Then spend the Â£350 or so that you've saved on a new watch.............................. or think feck it, and follow Thunderbolts very sound advice.


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

To be honest Â£527 including the parts & labour doesn't sound too bad to me ............ especially if this is at a main dealer!

A few months ago I took my girlfriends Merc C180 into the main dealer for its A service (which I think costs about Â£350) & they rang to say that it needed new spark plugs (Â£120 + VAT), a brake fluid change (Â£150 + VAT), a new air cleaner (Â£100 + VAT) & a couple of the tyres were borderline (God only knows how much they'd have cost if we'd got them through Mercedes). So the expected bill of Â£350 would have come to rather more (well over Â£700) if I'd had the work done by them!! When I went to pick the car up the very pleasant young lady I dealt with said that they'd only charged us Â£80/hour instead of the standard Â£100/hour :blink: ......... jolly nice of them if you ask me! By comparison the garage I take my cars to charges Â£35/hour while the father & son team who are going to fit the new sills to my SS1 only charge Â£12/hour :huh: !!

I bought a set of new spark plugs for the Merc for about Â£20 & fitted them myself, we got two new tyres for Â£80 each fitted & balanced. I still haven't changed the air filter yet (& the car hasn't died yet), while I'll get my the Â£35/hour garage mentioned above to change the brake fluid later this year.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Was it a main dealer Cammy? Why should I pay for the showroom, soft music and fit receptionist, Â£75ph for a wrenchmonkey? No chance, for a heart surgeon maybe! The sooner this scam ends the better.

Bulbs, one of my headlight bulbs went last week, I couldn't see how the headlight came out and it was impossible to fit one in situ. The garage wanted Â£80 to change the bulb, they said it as not possible to DIY fit. Went home & logged on to an owners website, bought a T30 screwdriver Â£4.95, Bulb Â£2.95, ten minutes later, job done. 

Brakes. when I picked up my new car, the brakes felt weird, bit juddery, so off to the garage it went. The guy said it needed new discs and pads all round as the discs had developed "high spots" This was a new one on me so I asked what "high spots" were, he then waffled at length describing how bubbles of high "material" had "developed" and were now proud of the disc surface thus not allowing proper pad contact. Deciding the bloke was a 100% fruitcake I took it to another garage where they told me that the reason for the weirdness was the need to bed in the brand new discs and pads!!  Straight back to garage number 1..............


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## scottishcammy (Jul 11, 2003)

It's not a main dealer. I've used them before and they're always been very good. I have absolutley no mechanical skilss at all, I appreciate what you're saying, and I'd give it a go if I was single, but my conscience wouldn't allow me with 3 kids and the Mrs.


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## thunderbolt (May 19, 2007)

I've spoken to my brother who works in a motor factors and he asked a few spanner monkeys how much for they would charge for the work, full price, not mates rates and the prices given were pretty much near your price cammy, give or take 50 quid or so. I stopped doing my own repairs years ago after a mate of mine had a crash after doing his own repairs, car was well bent, no one else involved or hurt. He was pootling down a country lane when his wheel fell off and he hit a stone wall. He forgot to tighten the wheel nuts.


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## Robert (Jul 26, 2006)

We paid Â£163.82 for the first service on the 710's car today. Seems like not a bad price but its only covered 1,117 miles in its first year. 

Included in the consumables was a screw at Â£1.14 plus VAT 

Cammy, I would do the bulbs myself and let them do the rest


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## jwg663 (Feb 26, 2004)

Don't think Â£527 is too bad. Steering & brakes need to be fixed properly

for your peace of mind.

.

I've got a Jag Xtype Classic (2 wheel drive). I had a puncture last

Monday 05/01/09. Couldn't get the wheel off so had to call Green Flag.

Spacesaver spare was put on & I drove home.

.

Phone up my local tyre guy for a quote for a tyre & was very reasonable,

so bought 2 for the front. Put the car in on Wednesday 07/01/09.

I got it back this afternoon! He took the spare wheel off & found the

coil spring had broken & penetrated the wall of the tyre. It's taken him 8 days

to source & fit a new spring!!!

.

Take it easy...

.

Jim...


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## Filterlab (Nov 13, 2008)

Seems about right for a main dealer.


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## Barryboy (Mar 21, 2006)

I have family in the motor trade. The price you got is fair - not cheap and not excessive.

Rob


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## Barryboy (Mar 21, 2006)

On second thoughts this calls for a fuller response...

I have family in the motor trade. The price you got is fair - not cheap and not excessive. Motoring costs money no matter what you drive and although that seems like a lot of money you have been unlucky in having to have all this work done at the same time.

Here's a true story about main dealers.....

A main dealer for a relatively prestigious make in a city not too far from here will relieve you of Â£100 an hour (yes, Â£100) for working on your pride and joy. In the workshop, however, out of sight of the paying public there are two experienced, certificated technicians (they're not called mechanics any more) supervising six semi-killed workers. These trainees (or 'spanner-********' as they are called in the trade) are the people who are really doing the work for your hundred quid an hour. Their wage, incidentally is about eight quid an hour and as the Americans say, you do the math.....

To those who do not have the inside track on the motor trade I give this serious advice: Find yourself a reputable, established, independent garage and stick with them. Avoid the cheapest 'hole in the wall' operators like the plague and don't make the main dealers rich.

Rob


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

7 hours labour @ what rate? the math is easy on that bit, ask them what their rate is.

Even @Â£35 ph your talking Â£245.

I wouldn't expect much change out of Â£250 for the parts listed assuming they are buying either genuine or as good as pattern parts. remember your paying full retail.

motoring is expensive!


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

pg tips said:


> 7 hours labour @ what rate? the math is easy on that bit, ask them what their rate is.
> 
> Even @Â£35 ph your talking Â£245.
> 
> ...


So.....are we saying that the following is a full days work? How long would it take you to do PG under threat of a good lashing?

New front bulbs

New handbrake

new brake pipes, front & rear (corroded)

Near side track rod end (worn)

Rear brake discs (pitted & scored) & new pads.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2009)

MarkF said:


> pg tips said:
> 
> 
> > 7 hours labour @ what rate? the math is easy on that bit, ask them what their rate is.
> ...


Garages work on "book time" as recommended by the manufacturers, it does of course have a generous margin in the garages favour.

The book time for the above jobs in likely to be 7 hours, but providing no major problems are encountered, in reality the job should probably be finished in 4 to 5 hours.

I used to work for a main stealer "outfit" in Chelsea, I wasn't on the tools, but I wouldn't trust the buggers to change a spark plug !.

As Robert so rightly says, find a good honest independant, and stick to them like sh%t on a blanket.


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## purplepantman (Jan 4, 2009)

What great advice all round!

I hate main dealers. I recently learned something interesting about them....

The 710 recently bought a used 06 Primera, which is still under manufacturers warrenty till June. It's due a service. I always thought you had to go through the main dealer (Nissan) for servicing - to keep the warrenty valid. By a chance conversation with a workmate, I discovered this is not so. You can get your local tried and trusted garage to do it as long as they use genuine parts and service the car to the manufacturers recommendations. The Office of Fair Trading changed the law on this in 2004 but how many peoply are aware of this? The handbook for the Primera states you must have the car serviced by a Nissan dealership but apparently this is tripe according to the OFT website!

Anyone know any more about this?

PS. The original question about the bill. Price sounds a little high to me but not mega!


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## scottishcammy (Jul 11, 2003)

Thanks very much for all the advice guys 

The mechanic who does the MOT's told me the hardest bit (or perhaps the most time consuming) is the brake pipes because they have to go behind the engine (I think that's what he said), and into the bulkhead.

His brothers are both cops in Edinburgh and the guy who does the MOT also did all the work on my motorcycle on the side for peanuts. I trust them as much as I could.

They're a small independent garage. Funnily enough the owner has a superb reputation for working on Subarus (and I'dmuch rather one of them than my Zafira!)


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

I went through this years ago, dealing with a Volvo main dealer. I had a problem and the service manager said he would get one of his "fitters" to have a look at the car.

I questioned why I was paying for a mechanic/ Technician and only getting the attention of a grease monkey. Then the excuses started. 

If you have a car under warranty take it to a main dealer or an authorised dealer who can maintain the warranty requirements of the manufacturer.

If not, find a good, third party garage that runs an MoT station and has a reputation to uphold.

When my battery (on the car) went flat due to it being used infrequently, I called out the RAC who told me I needed a new battery. I 'phoned my usual garage to fit a new one and the "main man" Phil asked me to drop the car round so they could test it, it transpires that the battery was good and needed nothing more than a serious charging. Which they did free of charge. 

When I picked the car up, Phil told me to call him if the car refused to start rather than calling the RAC (not that he had a bad word to say about them), he would send one of the lads out to sort it out or bring it in for no charge other than parts and labour if any were needed.

Phil used to work at King Ford as service manager and charges Ford service prices, though he won't do what many main dealers do. Charge for anything that doesn't need doing or parts that don't need replacing. He'll go the extra mile for loyal customers to keep them too, that generates a steady income from people who need their cars serviced in the knowledge that they won't be ripped off for jobs that don't really need doing.

That's a good business model in my opinion, a regular income is worth its weight in gold, ask Sky TV, Tiscali et al.

Phil just happens to provided a much better service and "thinks customer". 

I generated a loyal customer base for the firm I used to work for, sadly they didn't think it was that important (I didn't benefit financially from my efforts) and they may be paying the price for it as I type. h34r:


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

MarkF said:


> So.....are we saying that the following is a full days work? How long would it take you to do PG under threat of a good lashing?


As Catflem says there are "Book" times. An Industry standard agreed timing for each job on each model. This is where a mechanic earns his bonus. If for eg he has 4 services booked in and it's a 3 hour job for each he will get paid 12 hours money even if he gets them all done in 8. Obviously if he's a dawdling twat then he may loose out.

Exceptions are made for seized bolts etc (ask Paulus about them) but on the whole and considering what a twat of a job some brakepipe fitting can be I'd say it was a fair assesment of the time involved.

It can take an hour to change a headlight bulb on some modern cars!


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

Well the job/hours aren't exactly "industry standard rates" but are set in stone by each manufacturer......we have constant battles with our main dealer principals about job/hours....mainly becuase as far as the manufacturer is concerned we want the shortest job/hour rate we can get from the dealer just as much as the customer does.....cheaper for warranty and servicing bills when the usual buying time comparisons come about.....but the dealer of course just wants the dosh and often "accumulates" job/hours when he should in fact be combining them on some jobs, these are the ones we really get the big stick out for 

All said and done though a percentage is for the "front" of the operation but a lot goes to special tools and training (no honest some are trained!) but rest assured its not the manufacturers who want the high labour rates, we would rather they did it for nothing too! :lol:

Coming back to your query though Cammy......sounds pretty reasonable for brake lines front and rear and presumably the handbrake work is at the "dirty" end down, which can get expensive depending upon the system.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

David, Who is your avatar? Every time I see it, that nutty bird who whacked Geoffrey Boycott comes into my mind.


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

MarkF said:


> David, Who is your avatar? Every time I see it, that nutty bird who whacked Geoffrey Boycott comes into my mind.


Oh no, not at all similar.....at least I don't think so :lol:

My "housekeeper" in Japan :tongue2:


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## scottishcammy (Jul 11, 2003)

Car went in today. They just phoned, apparently the rear offside brake caliper had to be replaced as well, they used a re-conditioned one, an extra Â£80 making a total Â£607. Just what I needed.


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

Are you sure that wasn't the "handbrake" fault they found in the first place? A siezed caliper can feel very much like a siezed handbrake cable if they are not careful.......I'd gently ask them if I were you Cammy.


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## scottishcammy (Jul 11, 2003)

Boxbrownie said:


> Are you sure that wasn't the "handbrake" fault they found in the first place? A siezed caliper can feel very much like a siezed handbrake cable if they are not careful.......I'd gently ask them if I were you Cammy.


Apparently the cable was split, and they discovered the caliper was seized and needed replaced. Tell you what though, I really could do with that Â£607! Now the bloody road tax is due!


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## sompting jon (Dec 9, 2008)

We have taken our Mercedes to France to get it serviced at a main dealer, before the Euro dropped off the scale they were charging around 58 euros per hour which equalled about a third of and English main dealers prices, you still get your book stamped with a main Merc dealers stamp and fitted with original parts, which are about the same price all over Europe. My sister and brother in law did it the other week when they went to Lille, They got to go around the shops (big antiques area)in a courtesy car for i think it was 15 Euros for the day.

Most dealers have someone that speaks english and they are more than happy to help.

Good if you live near a port and you get to take the the other half for a days shopping as well, the savings paid for your drink at one time, perhaps not at the moment though.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

As I do my own servicing and get parts at trade prices I tend to lose touch with what garages charge. Had a customer today, knackered sorry  u/s battery. The customer remembers the garage fitted it at it's last service, she went and got the bill, and sure enough it was on there, luckily it has a 3 years warranty so she should get a replacement.

But what made me go  was the total cost of the bill, MOT and service (a biggy with a cambelt change), from what I could make out the battery was the only non service part fitted, Â£745! I'll leave you to guess the make and model of the car!


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## Robert (Jul 26, 2006)

pg tips said:


> I'll leave you to guess the make and model of the car!


BMW?


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

Main stealer wanted Â£600 or there abouts (bound to be more'abouts! :huh: ) for a 60K service on my Lexus....no cambelt change until 100K.....just filters and oils (engine,transfer case, diff) and the usual "visual" inspections....quite a long service, well I say that, I think book time is about 3.5hours so that over half the cost in labour alone!

Needless to say I am taking to my local specialist we have been using for years...dead reliable, small private garage with all the correct gear......drum roll..........Â£270 all in.


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