# New Arrival From The Bottom Feeders Market



## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

Just arrived. Tissot PR516 ladies watch that needs to be brought back to life. I am guessing 1970s?

Unlike my cheap junk movements, I do care if I mess this one up. The poor Oris that had one of its balance end jewels go AWOL yesterday is now consigned to the basket case box. I have dusted every horizontal surface in the conservatory and swept every inch of the floor with dustpan and brush. Nothing. I usually find things like dropped screws after going round with the dustpan, but this is the second jewel I lost and never found a single one again.

I think the fairies carry them away in the night.

I have a few more movements to practice on before I start on the PR516, then intend to do it "right" including spending some money on its restoration.

At least it has proper captive incabloc springs, not those horrible KIF Trior springs!

When I get around to doing it, I will be taking lots of pics to jog my memory and I do like to try put back as much as I take from a forum, so would a dedicated thread of the restoration with lots of pics be of interest to everyone? My threads are warts and all, not ego filled I am the master if the universe type affairs. I am neither knowledgeable, nor skilled at watchmaking and repairing and never pretend to be. No doubt there will be much chortling as I dig myself ever deeper into the hole.

My other passion is restoring classic jap bikes and such threads have always been extremely popular on other forums. So dedicated thread? Let me know what you think.

New arrival. Tissot PR516 ladies. For some reason, I always seem to have more success with Tissot.

 

All the pivots in the movement feel sticky, almost as if it has been dipped in a glass of coke and rinsed off. The automatic mech is too stiff to turn and the balance wheel hairspring is not strong enough to oscillate it. Overall, everything is absolutely filthy inside, but no rust from what I can see.

 

On another forum, the thread about the roller coaster of emotions restoration of this resident of my watchmaking "facility" ran to well over fifty pages. Let me know if you are interested in a similar one about the Tissot. I am guessing that Tissot is not going to be as straightforward as I would like.


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## Duncan U. (May 16, 2021)

I am interested in a thread on it, shame you couldl't find that jewel.


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

There's usually quite a bit of interest in restoration threads, though it may be less for a ladies watch.


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

Its OK. One person has expressed an interest so thats enough for me. Its just a case of captioning a lot of pics I will have already taken.

So spoiler alert, my imposed five day covid exclusion from polite society is over and I return to work tomorrow for two days, then I am back on holiday again. I spent an hour this afternoon, stripping it to find what the problem is, so I already have a shed load of pics.

Are we all sitting comfortably? Then I shall begin.

Pinned the movement down to a Tissot 844 (ETA 2551) which dates the watch between 1967 and 1972. I removed the case and stripped it down and have found the problem. Yes it is going to involve buying parts.

The main vexation after getting rusty dial feet screws out is getting the crystal out. It is solid in there. I cant see a tensioner ring or anything holding it in. Some advice welcome on this.

Pics.

Where it is all taking place.. Dust pot is full of the stripped Tissot.

 

And at my back. Sorry cannot resist a pic of one of my babies. 1979 Yamaha DT175mx.

 

Back on theme.. Out of case and hands removed. Dial looks excellent for a 50 odd year old.

 

I said there was no apparent rust. Looks like I will need to source a replacement calendar wheel as it is rust stained and badly scratched.


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

It appears that parts for this movement are readily available which is a pleasant surprise. Very different from my usual collection of the waifs and strays of watch movements.

I have ordered a new old stock date ring and a new replacement for the failed part. Everything else is subject to inspection.

Oh and it is a Tissot 744, not an 844 that I said it was in the post above. Senior moment.


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## Simon J (Jun 30, 2021)

You've made a lovely job of the DT, first proper Bike I ever rode aged 12, same colour too.

Good luck with the Watch. May I suggest you raise the table or get an office chair to sit lower


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

Thanks Simon.

So we have the date ring and mechanism removed and started to remove the keyless works. The cannon pinion was loose on the shaft and did not require to be pulled off hard with tweezers. If I turned the movement upside down, it would have dropped out under its own weight.

Is this correct for this movement. First one I ever came across so loose..

 

Movement turned over and we remove the automatic module. I will probably strip and clean this seperately. This weekend, bearing in mind the pivots were not turning freely. As the cost of the watches and movements have risen in line with my knowledge, it is time to invest in some brass tweezers. Does not matter with a £2.99 movement plus postage, but this Tissot is not going to be cheap to put right. As with all restorations, I will never see a return on my money. It is for personal satisfaction, not material gain.

 

Movement looks cleaner than expected under the auto works. First job is out with the balance. I am terrified of the balance, they seem to have a life of their own and have regularly been known to leap out of my tweezers. Several committed a suicide dive and came out of it with twisted and tangled hairsprings. I have several old movements in my basket case box because of this.

 

I have been "repairing" watches since May now and have seen my skills steadily improve. However, as one nemesis is defeated, another is in the wings waiting its turn to give me grief.

First it was flying clicks, click screws and springs. Then it was flying setting lever yoke springs and dropped balances. Now it is flying KIF Trior springs and dropped balance jewels as I start to dismantle and clean things properly, rather than be content to just get the watches running.

The main reason for this change is the arrival of a timegrapher, so amplitude and beat error suddenly became "a thing", necessitating properly cleaned and oiled movements.

Of course, the movements I pull from the mud at the bottom of the bay of fleas rarely respond to a proper clean and oil, they are well past their best and have probably been rejected by more experienced watchmakers because of this.

Final pic for today. The one thing that made me defeat the dropped balance nemesis. A home made balance tack. As soon as the balance is removed it is placed directly onto the tack, and not "messed with" until the movement is stripped, whereupon it is immediately placed and screwed back onto the baseplate for cleaning and storage. I cannot believe how this simple device has prevented such mayhem.

Balance waiting patiently to be refitted to the bare baseplate.


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## Duncan U. (May 16, 2021)

That stand for the balance is a great idea :thumbsup:

I stripped down my HMT this afternoon and no lost pieces or broken screws so far!


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

So we come to removing the train of wheels. Nothing jumps out at me, but of course everything needs to be cleaned and inspected.

Another nemesis of mine, refitting the train bridge.

On youtube they make it look easy, a deft flick into place, a quick adjustment and everything lines up. My attempts are somewhat longer and more red faced..

 

Train of wheels removed, escape wheel, pallet fork bridge and pallet fork next. Then we move onto the barrel bridge and barrel.

 

Barrel was pulled and cover removed. It was noted that the mainspring was disengaged from the barrel arbour. The end of the spring looked ok, but something didnt look quite right on the arbour. I peered at it through my 20x loupe but still could not quite see what was going on, so over to the microscope..

The tang that engages with the mainspring has worn away. The smoking gun as to why the watch won't even start up. It has no power at all.

Barrel arbour with worn tang. It looks well battered. Not a great pic but you can just make it out.

 

So there we have it all in bits. I have found a brand new complete barrel assembly for a tenner which is great. What is not so great is it will take a few weeks to arrive.

The new date wheel has just arrived. I will probably get around to cleaning and inspecting some parts the weekend.


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

Continued apace.

Had a look at the automatic module and it seems pretty clear that it is meant to be replaced as a unit and not serviced. I gave a gentle rub with a piece of pegwood to get the stain off, dropped it in a jar of brake cleaner and stuck it on my ultrasonic cleaner for five minutes.

Let the solvent evaporate and inspected the action. Lovely and free now, so just gave the pivots I could get to the tiniest drop of 9010. When I mean tiny, I could not actually see it go in under my 20x loupe and am relying on faith that some was drawn in. If any excess may have been present, it was dabbed off with ridico immediately as a just in case measure. Oil finding its way onto those fine gear teeth would be a very bad thing.

Had a look at the case and pondered what do. Crystal is dull and scratched and case has a lot of fine scratches.

I know you vintage watch collectors out there do not like cases that have been buffed up on a polishing mop and like patina left on the watch.

However, I like bling..... An easy decision to make as how to proceed, the first step of my decision tree being that I do not possess a buffing wheel. So I will be disingenuous and say that I left the patina on as a deliberate decision.

Next was the crystal. It is obviously the original, probably irreplaceable like for like, is made of sapphire crystal and would probably break if I used my press to remove it. So out with the polish and elbow grease.

So we look to the case. This watch has obviously been much loved and very well cared for. There are several servicing watchmakers marks etched into the case back, one dated 1973. Same guy serviced it at least twice as his initials appear twice.

Well loved watch.

 

 

Case fresh from the ultrasonic cleaner. Sapphire crystal scratched and dulled.

 

All taped up ready for an hours worth of elbow grease.

 

Automatic module and case. Crystal polished, some deep scratches are left in, but are not clearly visible now. The glass looks vibrant again. Case just brightened for a minute with duraglit just to remove some old surface staining. All the original patina is still present.


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

I have a 1955 Bentima Star (AS1525) to look at next, so made an effort to clear my bench, clean and inspect the remaining Tissot parts.

No other damage was evident so put the parts away in a compartmentalised box. Last thing I did before putting it all away was to remove, clean and oil the balance jewels. This is my number one nemesis with flying springs, lost cap jewels and general mayhem.

I wanted it out of the way now, so when I assemble it, all I have to do is remove it to fit the pallet fork and refit it. Thankfully it went without incident and even my oil on the cap stones was central. I am now a fan of incabloc springs. Kif trior springs can go kiss my %#####. Blowing on the balance made it oscillate for an impressive amount of time, compared to my usual rescued from the mud at the bottom of the ebay watch section horological nightmares.

The new calendar ring has arrived, so I am just waiting for the new mainspring barrel assembly to arrive from Slovenia and I can reassemble it.


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

Two steps forward and one back. The joys of cheap non running vintage watches...

The new mainspring barrel assembly arrived and I proceded to start assembling the movement. I assembled the barrel bridge and the train bridge. What an escapade that was. Took me about 30 very careful minutes with loupe, inspecting the jewel holes for correct pivot location and peering under the bridge to see what was out of whack.

Finally got power from the barrel to the escape wheel and very gingerly tightened the fixing screw. Phew, everything still running free, so a dab of 9010 on the escape wheel jewels and a dab of D5 on everything else.

So we come to my latest nemesis. I have never had a problem with fitting pallet forks before, but some may recall I got careless and broke one on a cheap as chips non working 13mm Oris ladies watch movement I was going to repair last week.

So time to fit the pallet fork and pallet cock. Teased the lower pivot into place and got it levelled up. Placed the pallet cock straight onto the pins first time, which was a surprise. Shuffled the fork about a bit while applying a small amount of pressure with my tweezers. Satisfied everything was free and levelled, I tightened the screw a quarter turn at a time, checking the fork was not binding each time. No way was I going to break another pallet fork. Probably ten minutes later, with lots of checking, the screw was fully tightened.

Last free movement check before putting some power into the spring. Nice free movement side to side, too free in fact and too wobbly. Undid the screw and removed the fork to see what was awry. Damn and blastit. The upper pivot pin was broken off! No way...... I looked for it everywhere, in the jewel, in the movement, on my mat nothing.

Then it dawned. The mainspring was off the barrel arbour and the arbour was mangled by the spring, so I thought i'd found the smoking gun. Just cleaned the other parts and gave them little more than a cursory inspection, so I must have missed the broken pivot. It really is no thicker than a hair.

A broken pallet fork can cause mayhem to the mainspring and barrel assembly as the power is suddenly released in an uncontrolled manner, mainsprings have been known to break in situations like this. So I think we have the true smoking gun and I missed it.

Looking back at the strip down pics before I removed the pallet assembly, it does look like the fork is tilted forwards slightly indicating a broken upper pivot.

At least there is no damage to any of the jewels.

So I have a new fork ordered and it is not cheap at £20 plus postage. So with £35 for the watch, £20 for the fork, £15 for the new mainspring barrel and another £15 for the new date ring bringing the total to £85, plus my time and consumables, I would certainly go out of business very quickly if I tried to make a living out repairing vintage watches.

Which is probably why the watch found its way onto ebay as a non runner and not repaired in the first place... Deemed an uneconomic repair.

Onwards and upwards..


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

Smoking gun?

Strip down pic shows the fork is very definitely tilted forward. This failure allowed the power to run down explosively, damaging the mainspring assemblies.

Thank God I didn't break another fork. I would have had to go out onto the verandah with my service pistol and a single bullet...


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Tinkicker said:


> So I have a new fork ordered and it is not cheap at £20 plus postage. So with £35 for the watch, £20 for the fork, £15 for the new mainspring barrel and another £15 for the new date ring bringing the total to £85, plus my time and consumables, I would certainly go out of business very quickly if I tried to make a living out repairing vintage watches.
> 
> Which is probably why the watch found its way onto ebay as a non runner and not repaired in the first place... Deemed an uneconomic repair.


 My recent experience is that £200-£350 is the expected charge for a professional vintage watch repair, especially if you want it done properly in less than 9 months. So you aren't doing too badly, at least on cost. The only recent economic repair I did was a quartz battery change. :biggrin:


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

So more mayhem ensues at TK towers. I learned an important lesson today. Do not attempt to assemble watches after sinking 8 cans of lager the night before. :wacko:

Hands shaking like a pneumatic drill and tiny, barely visible to the naked eye watch parts make for uneasy bedfellows.

Got up this morning, missus is at work so I'm rattling around the house with just two Basset Hounds for company, both giving me the baleful eye from the comfort of the other sofa. Fortified with strong French breakfast coffee it suddenly seemed like a good idea to crack on with the dial side works while waiting for the new pallet fork to arrive.

So fitted keyless works and started on the calendar works. And the mayhem started...

The date jumper on this movement has a reputation for humbling the most experienced watchmakers, never mind a hung over idiot like me. It really is a stupid design, one side bearing against the side of the date ring, the other side having a strong spring pressing it against the wheel and the pivot point, a simple semi circular hook that is also held against a post by the spring.

Many attempts to get this almost invisible part into place without success, hook always twisted itself away from the post and I was getting a bit sniffy about it in addition to panicking about the spring flying into low earth orbit at any moment. I thought I needed to walk away and have a rest.

Of course, the devil whispered in my ear to have just one last attempt... Hook on, jumper lever up against the date ring and holding everything down with a finger, teased the spring into place. Slowly removed finger, looking under it for a disaster about to unfold.

Nothing, setting lever sat there with spring nice as ninepence. I sat back in the chair and gave a big sigh of relief and thinking of making another coffee. Just need to fit the retaining plate to hold them down and it is brew time.

Happily sat there with retaining plate in tweezers and looked down at the movement to see how to orient it....

Both spring and date jumper were missing, vanished into thin air. Checked desk, checked floor, swept floor on hands and knees with dustpan and brush. Nothing.

Had to order a pack of five springs from Spain at a tenner plus a fiver postage. Found a new date jumper in the UK for £3.99.

Of course, after ordering the springs, the original turned up. It had bounced under the movement and hung up underneath the movement holder. Only found it because I removed the movement from the holder to put it back into a dust free container until the new parts arrived. Pulled out the movement and there it was.

You couldn't make it up...

I expect the date jumper will reappear the day the new one arrives.

Keyless works and most of the dial side refitted. New date ring without rust and scratches. I have to stick the movement holder down with Rodico to fit springs ect as everything is too light to stay put if you try to compress a spring. Having everything steady and secure is a big challenge with ladies watches, too small to grip and work on at the same time.

 

Movement with 5p coin at side for scale reference. I am making it very hard for myself learning on such tiny watches, a lot of parts are barely visible without magnification. The recalcitrant spring is at the bottom of the pic.


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

Well. The date jumper arrived and was duly fitted after a good hour or so of trying and retrying, whilst panicking about the possibility of the new jumper and spring flying into space yet again. Calendar works now back together, working and dial refitted.

Never did find the old jumper.

I have now invested in a good length of magnetic strip that I will use to make a magnetic wand out of to sweep the floor for lost parts.

Pallet fork arrived in the post and fitted but am having a problem getting power into the watch, obviously I have made a mistake somewhere in the keyless works. I have an inkling it is a tiny pinion smaller than a pin head, that unlike most watches, does not sit on a post, far too small for a post, but pivots between holes in the baseplate and spring plate. I think it must be misaligned.

Rather than rolling my sleeves up and diving in, I have taken the decision to walk away from it for a week or two. It really is the most demanding movement I have worked on. Don't think it was really designed to be repaired.

I can't say it is an enjoyable task, just too much engineering crammed into such a small space and too many barely visible parts all wanting to fly into space at any moment. For sure, a lesson in frustration. Just one thing after another gone wrong. It has certainly dented my enthusiasm and confidence.

Someone once mentioned to me that service centres on receiving tiny ladies watches such as this for service and repair would most often throw the movement in the scrap and fit a new one as the most efficient and cost effective way of turning it around. Whether this is true, I have no idea, but I certainly wish I had that option.

I'll be back....


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

Doh! Having trouble getting power in because I have forgotten the click spring! Could have sworn... But there it is in the corner of the container laughing at me.


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Tinkicker said:


> Someone once mentioned to me that service centres on receiving tiny ladies watches such as this for service and repair would most often throw the movement in the scrap and fit a new one as the most efficient and cost effective way of turning it around. Whether this is true, I have no idea, but I certainly wish I had that option.


 I have a watch with an old FHF ESA 961.001 quartz movement in it. I did some research and found it was commonly advertised to the trade as a replacement for handwinding movements like, iirc, the FHF 60.


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

It must have been quite a popular option fitting a new fangled quartz movement into a mechanical watch back in the 70s when mechanicals were seen as not quite "the thing" anymore.

I'm feeling a bit better about it all now. I got myself into a bit of a tizzy and confused myself. In the light of day I revisited the watch to make sense of my laying awake in the dark musings and picturing the movement.

That little pinion I was talking about in the keyless works is of course the setting pinion and nothing to do with winding the watch. It is set just fine.

Still waiting for a few bits and pieces including an intermediate wheel that I decided to change at the last minute. Some teeth on it did not look the same as the others somehow, but they are so small I could not quite make it out why, even at 20x magnification.

Getting into a tiz with this because it is the first one that means something. All my other movements were bought for the express reason of taking them apart and putting them back together again with the expectation that I would screw up and learn something from my mistakes.

I suppose buying a non running watch from the bay also means that someone could have bought it for spares for another watch or watches, and put all the garbage back into mine, before putting it up for sale again. One never knows and would explain the extensive damage I have come across.

The main thing I have learned from this is that my skills are not as developed as I thought they were. It has been a humbling experience.

Still, onwards and upwards. I will finish it, whatever it takes.

I owe it to the unknown lady who obviously treasured this watch in the 1970s. It is part of her life story. She is probably looking over my shoulder, shaking her head sadly and dodging all the flying springs as I work on it.


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

Well, the plot thickens. Fitted the new third wheel and rebuilt the train yet again. I hate that train bridge with a passion. Still, power now to the escape wheel, lovely and free running. Noticeably better with the new third wheel than before.

Fitted pallet fork again and put a modest wind into the watch. Check pallet action. Fine, clicks over nicely.

Time to fit the balance. Duly got balance fitted, lovely and free, gave it a nudge to start the movement and......

It's mislocking on the clockwise rotation. You could not make it up. Balance off, check impulse jewel location. Right in line with the hairspring stud. Refit, ensuring impulse jewel is to the right of the pallet fork and fork set for the jewel to enter the fork. Give it a small nudge to swing the fork across and start up....

Mislock on the clockwise swing. Remove balance, recheck everything. Continue many times.

Power down the watch, remove the pallet cock and check I have not done something stupid like bent the pivots. Nope. Rebuild again, lube the pallet stones.

Refit the balance carefully. Give it a nudge..

Mislock on the clockwise swing.

Thing is too small and everything cluttered together to see what is happening. Probably a loose impulse jewel or something awry in the balance because the pallet fork is clicking over before it touches the banking guide shoulders (no banking pins on this movement).

It may not even be the correct balance for the movement. The more I see, the more I think someone has used it as a donor watch to bring other movements back to life and decided to put all the unserviceable parts back in and flog it as non running. Just too much randomly damaged parts. One thing after the next, starting with the barrel and mainspring, the train of wheels, the escapement and now the balance. On the other side of the movement, the date ring which had rust marks on it but no rust in the watch.

Then a moron came along and bought it, thinking it would be an easy repair....

The missus has put a stop to spending on watch parts for this month.... A new balance can be had for £14.

Who would have expected all the angst lurking under there?


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

The more I see of this, the more I think I am right to avoid tinkering at this level. I've caused or exposed all kinds of horrors just by removing a stem, so who knows what havoc I would create if I took the rest of it to bits. :biggrin: I do like following your adventures, though. Thank you for posting.


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

It's not always doom and gloom. Cheap movements are for learning on as they have no other use. I have 7 or 8 non runners that have been serviced and ticking away.

Watches, I take a bit more care with. They can be used and loved again.

The Missus commandeered this unremarkable little manual wind Tissot and it is now her daily wearer. Bought as non runner, repaired, cleaned and serviced. Accurate to a couple of seconds a day on the wrist. I have a tenner in it including the new strap. Her new Tissot Le Local automatic now lives in its box permanantly. Could have saved myself a fortune had I known a couple of months earlier.

 

Early 60s Oris Super 17. Came in a batch of non runners. Needed a service and a good clean.

 

Tissot Stylist TV screen style. Guessing late 60s, early 70s. Absolutely gummed up with nicotine and red nylon carpet fibres. Runs a couple of minutes a day fast but otherwise very reliable. Hairspring needs manipulating. Not trying that, no siree bob. Only money spent was a new strap.

 

So it is not all bad.


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## Simon J (Jun 30, 2021)

Tinkicker: Invest 19quid on a digital microscope from Amazon, when wifey lets you spend again


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

Well the plot thickened even further, but it is finally running as of this morning. If you can call it running.

I was so close to giving up on it. I think the old lady that owned it did not want it running again and cursed it. Every step was a nightmare.

The mislocking on further investigation was caused by the "new, old stock" pallet fork for the the Tissot 744 / ETA 2551. Suspiciously, it did not arrive in ETA packaging, but in a small ziplock bag. Fair enough, parts are often packaged at the factory in twos, threes or fives and the seller sells them seperately.

After hours of peering through the loupe and microscope, prodding this, removing and refitting that, I came across the culprit. It was the wrong pallet fork.

I removed the new and compared it with the old. The old one had entrance and exit ramps and the new one did not. Notice the rear of the forks, old one on the the left flares out to guide the impulse jewel in. The new fork "trident" is straight. My fault, I should have compared them earlier.

Genuine ETA 2550 fork in genuine ETA packaging flew in from the Netherlands.

Old fork on left, new but wrongly supplied fork on right.

 

So fork fitted, fitted, balance fitted and attempted to put a wind in the watch again. The balance is working fine now, however it needed more power to run.

A couple of turns and it was obvious the brand new mainspring in the brand new barrel was either broken or slipping. Stripped down the watch to its component parts yet again to investigate. Split the barrel and the mainspring had been fitted wrongly. For some reason the arbour end was bent double on itself and the arbour was catching it and then slipping. It should have wrapped round the arbour so that as the spring came under tension it grips the arbour tighter.

Spring straightened and fitted correctly then had second thoughts, it was bent double and very likely to break prematurely, so a new mainspring was ordered and fitted. Watch rebuilt yet again. God I hate that train bridge with a passion. Takes ages to get everything lined up, but now the watch winds, I have power to the escapement and the pallet fork is working correctly.

Time to fit the balance... Where did I put it? Drat I left it dangling for over a week on my balance tack and the spring had taken on a conical set. I could have screamed. Time to remove the spring from the balance cock and attempt to straighten it up. My bad. The balance tack is good for a few hours, not weeks.

Now I know the movement was a donor with rejected parts refitted, the regulator pin was badly mashed, but I got it undone, tried my best to "realign"" the spring and refitted it. You cannot see the thing with a naked eye side on and its total diameter is about 6mm. I did my best, refitted the balance and the watch started up.

A new balance wheel and spring is £14 but I am done spending on it. I have £100 in a watch probably worth £40 or £50 as fully overhauled.

Cased it all up and stuck it on the timegrapher. At least it is running. I need to let it run for a week or so to let it settle down, the lube to distribute itself properly and the hairspring to shake itself out.

The trouble with timegraphers is you know too much. Before I bought it I was happy with a watch that just kept good time. Beat errors and amplitudes were just words. You can have really poor amplitudes and beat errors with a watch that is accurate on average to less than a minute a day. Excellent timekeeping and very reliable, but not "healthy".

So grand total of this ebay special "non runner".

Mainspring barrel assembly from Slovenia.

Mainspring from the UK.

Third wheel from the Netherlands.

Pallet fork #1 from the UK.

Pallet fork #2 from the Netherlands.

Date ring from the UK

Date jumper and spring from the Netherlands.

Rate is not as displayed, it is all over the place, amplitude sucks, beat error sucks but to my surprise it turns out that the Tissot744 is a relatively high beat movement.

I expect it to settle down a little over the week, then I can do some adjustments. Waste of time trying at the moment.


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

I swear that watch is cursed. It just did not want to run.

After 12 hours it was performing worse and getting more erratic. Rate would jump from -180 to + 400 seconds hour to hour depending on orientation. Orientated crown down (more often the position when worn) it was so erratic that the timegrapher would not pick up the beat error, amplitude or rate at all.

Suspected a combination of the damaged hairspring and worn balance staff pivots, so I gritted my teeth and ordered a new balance.

My word, getting the new hairspring onto the balance cock was a true lesson in fitfull perseverance. Disaster and a knacked hairspring was fractions of a millimeter away, coupled with a lack of means of being able to hold everything steady. I have not got a small watchmakers vice or other means. Sticking it down in Rodico just makes a sticky mess.

Even with 20x magnification, the spring was very difficult to see, the hairspring stud was easy enough to see and drive home, but hooking the hairspring itself over the regulator pin was pretty intense.

Balance fitted and the watch started up before I had the balance cock screw fitted which was a good sign.

Popped it on the timegrapher and was fairly pleased with the result.

Oriented crown down, the rate is fairly consistent and its only been running for an hour, the amplitude is very pleasing, beat error could be a lot better but as long as the watch keeps good time and is reliable I am of a mind to not make any further adjustments and mess things up again. Interestingly, the beat reading has dropped from 25200 to 21600 which is what I expected the first time around. Perhaps an incorrect balance fitted along with everything else?

Any views on this? Because I do not see how the beat should change.

This has been one of those jobs where nothing has gone right. Cursed.

Usually a simple movement will take about three hours to strip, clean, lube and reassemble. I reckon I have in excess of sixty hours in that tiny Tissot. It almost made me seriously consider giving the hobby up.

More pleasing and consistent readings across all orientations and not too bad for a 52 year old watch all things considered. To get it better I would think it needs the balance jewels replacing. I cannot do that as an amateur tinkerer. Very pleased with the healthy amplitude reading. It may settle down a bit after a week of running. I am of a mind to leave centering regulator well alone.

On the bench below is a little seven jewel Oris non runner. I have got it running but is in need of a clean and service.


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## tbyul (7 mo ago)

Worked also on a Tissot and find it hard. The watch was sent back twice as not working all the time. It came back with same issue without fix. Finally my friend give it to me (still have a nice meal to give back  )

I worked a long time on it and finally found bridge and balance cock were too tight, one of the wheel was also slightly twisted. Took me hours to figure out. Now working like a charm and I learned a lot!


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

Excellent to see that it is back to life - congratualtions.

For those horrible train bridges I use a 40X bifocal microscope with working room under it, which does help enormously. I have also discovered that a good set of tweezers is worth the money. Of course with watch tools one good set of tweezers turns into many good sets, but I got by with brass Horotec ones for a good while.

The other thing to consider is working on pocket watches at first. Everything is larger, easier to see and hold. :yes:


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

Yes. Pocket watches are the well trodden way.  ?

I pick up ladies watches because no one wants to try get them running, so are relatively cheap. I have not got the skills to trust myself to more expensive mans watches. I have placed bids on various non runner Seikos in the past, only to see the bidding climb past £60 or £70 for a non runner! Ridiculous money.

I shy away from pocket watches because I figure that they will have passed through many unskilled hands, they being the acknowledged route for beginners and if I it were not for bad luck, I should have no luck at all. Too risky for me.

Besides, I figure if I hone my skills on tiny ladies movements, in the fullness of time, I will find mens watches so much easier to work on.

Tissot has been running bare bones on the timegrapher in all orientations for a week, then put in the case and been worn on the wrist by the missus for about 12 hours and rested for 12 hours. Accuracy over the 24 hours seems to be around 45 seconds a day.

Being a realist, I know I will not get it any better without spending a fortune at a watchmakers having more worn parts and jewels replaced. It keeps fairly good time and appears to keep ticking reliably. Amplitude settled to around an average of 230 degrees and beat error an uninspiring average of around 4ms with stem down.

Now back in its case with a new strap I had lying around. The stainless strap it came with was not original and the ends were far too big in diameter for the spring bars. It looked plain daft.

So from a gummed up non runner and I strongly suspect built from an array of rejected, unserviceable parts from other movements by some unscrupulous person and sold on as "not running, not tested"; to a living watch again. Calendar ring works but takes its time and seems to finally flip to the next day fully at 01:30. I thought the date jumper was there to flip it over quickly.

So a little lesson in how to buy a watch, spend twice as much money on it than it is worth and nearly go mad as every task had to be done and done again as "new old stock parts were either wrongly supplied or defective, and other parts found to be in poor condition as the work progressed, necessitating the stripping, cleaning, rebuilding and re lubing the movement at least five times.

Very nearly gave up on it. It is now stored away in a ziplock bag, probably never to be seen again.


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

So from teeny tiny Tissot on the Sunday, back to a set of gears of a different scale for my day job on Monday. The individual bearing rollers are bigger than the Tissot movement in its entirety.

Both gear trains suffering from a lack of care and attention, one driven by a 1.5mm mainspring and the other by 1500 hp.


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

Final report. Missus has reluctantly had the watch on wrist for three days now and rested it overnight.

Over the three days, it appears to have gained less than a minute in real wear conditions. It has not stopped during the three days, so the automatic module must be keeping it wound.

I am calling it a sucess.

Now on the lookout for another victim.....


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## Jacksy (10 mo ago)

Great thread. Thankyou.


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## Colin Belfast (Jan 23, 2021)

Congratulations on your skills (and particulary your patience)
I'm interested in your other love of Japanese bikes as my pal has a Kawasaki H2 triple and has recently purchased a Z1300 to play with. 😀


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## Brand New Day (1 mo ago)

This was so much fun to read.


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## P9uma (16 d ago)

What a great thread, I thoroughly enjoyed it, very entertaining. Thank you for taking the time to write it.


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## champ (Feb 17, 2020)

I also enjoyed reading this. .Many thanks for the information.


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