# Basic Lathe Setup



## jnash

I would love to have a ago at making a balance staff.

THere are so many lathes out there, im not sure where to start

it needs to be small, if possible have a motor attached ?

i used to have a emco unimat, is that considered too big?

i would like to get it second hand as im not sure if im able to achieve this so dont want to waste a lot of money on it if im horribly useless at it?

problem is i dont know anyone that has one to play with?

any ideas?

Thanks

Jonathan


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## horz

To quote Daniels in his book 'Watchmaking' after buying a Schuablin lathe second hand:



> First, it is false economy to buy used lathes. They are usually sold because they are worn out. Secondly, worn machines can do good work but only if the operator learns to master their idiosyncrasies


I can't give any advice on used lathes as, like yourself, I've never played about with any that are on a watchmaking scale. But this guy decided to build his own tourbillon watch from scratch, and gives a pretty good run through of his decisions in purchasing a lathe: http://watchmaking.w...wells-90cw.html

Also, Steffen Pahlow gives a very interesting run through of replacing a balance staff here:


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## jnash

Lol George Daniels boom Is the reason I want one - just don't want to waste money on something I may not be bothered/can master !

Thanks

Jonathan.


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## BondandBigM

Myford make some nice small lathes with any number of attachments available for them. I wouldn't be put off by a second hand one as there are plenty around that have only had very light use. Quality tooling is also a must, there is a load of stuff both tools and lathes made in the Far East but for the best part most are rubbish, I've had a couple and they don't last five minutes.


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## tixntox

Watchmaking lathes have to be unbelievably accurate for obvious reasons. I bought a Lorch Schmidt 6mm and wished that I had bought an 8mm as bits were virtually unobtanium. Bearing this in mind, I split the lathe I had into component parts and sold it off in pieces. It made four times what I paid for it and bought me a nice watch. After "playing" with it for a while, I realised that my eyes were not up to the job and that my engineering would stay on larger scales. I considered a lathe for watch cases but was put off by the specialist kit needed to machine stainless.

Mike


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## BondandBigM

tixntox said:


> I considered a lathe for watch cases but was put off by the specialist kit needed to machine stainless.
> 
> Mike


We machine high chrome duplex s/s all the time, much tougher than regular 316, tool holders are the same as for any other material and you just have to get the right grades of inserts but not hugely expensive. About a fiver or so each and if it was something like a watchcase you could probably machine a few off one corner of an indexable insert. And there are plenty of people selling mineture tooling that would be suitable for not a lot.










It's not the black art that some of the manufacturers promotional videos would have you believe.


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## tixntox

Aw Shucks! Looks like you're going to get me at it again! :wallbash: The 710 will not be happy. The shed will be out of bounds to her again! :yes:

Mike


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## BondandBigM

All you need is something along these lines










Some gobbledygook in the mainframe










And some appropriate tooling, this stuff is just to give you an idea of how small you can get, we don't use it for watch cases.










Before you know it making watch cases will be like shelling peas. And although I can sort the Daewoo out I have absolutely no idea why my phone has suddenly started taking pictures upside down !!

:lol: :lol:


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## Silver Hawk

tixntox said:


> I considered a lathe for watch cases but was put off by the specialist kit needed to machine stainless.
> 
> Mike


Mike, turning stainless is easy with modern tipped tools. I've been making stainless parts for my vintage bikes for years (large lathe in garage) and have also turned down stainless steel Accutron cases on my small Record ML-210 lathe:


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## Service Engineer

Reading all these accounts of highly precision lathe useage, would anyone be interested in skimming down a couple of bezel inserts ?

It's impossible to obtain bezel inserts for Seiko 7A38-7070 bezels but I'm told that Seiko SKX007/009 bezel inserts can be 'skimmed' on their OD to fit.

All expenses obviously would be reimbursed. Could anyone do this for me ? The inserts along with the bezel would be supplied all I need is a couple of inserts skimmed to fit.

Hopefully someone 'out there' can help ? 

Regards to all.


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## jnash

tixntox said:


> Watchmaking lathes have to be unbelievably accurate for obvious reasons. I bought a Lorch Schmidt 6mm and wished that I had bought an 8mm as bits were virtually unobtanium. Bearing this in mind, I split the lathe I had into component parts and sold it off in pieces. It made four times what I paid for it and bought me a nice watch. After "playing" with it for a while, I realised that my eyes were not up to the job and that my engineering would stay on larger scales. I considered a lathe for watch cases but was put off by the specialist kit needed to machine stainless.
> 
> Mike


The problem is that im not sure whats good , not good - looking to have a go at turning blance staffs and stems maybe...

would like something that has a inbuilt motor and something that doesnt take up much space?

any ideas will be welcome that will be great.

Jonathan


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## Service Engineer

It appears there's more to reducing the OD of a slim aluminium disc than I imagined. Strange, as I was told by a local engineer that with a small enough lathe set up it would take just a few moments. Sadly, the only lathe he has access to he uses for skimming out brake drums. A bit too big for reducing bezel inserts !


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## harryblakes7

Hmmmmmm............. very interesting..... I have a Sherwood lathe with approx 4" chuck but too big for balance staffs.........

Incidentally the staff shown in the video on the Lange & Sohne seems very simplistic with just one taper, usually they have a set in the middle which the balance goes onto, then roller and then runs parallel then pivots on the end, approx time to turn a staff is 4 hours total concentration i was once told or read in Donald De Carle's book............ It is a very intricate and highly demanding skill, it's like saying you liked doing that first aid course last week and this week you want to have a go at brain surgery!!


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## DavidH

I got the time today to take some pictures of my Lorch Schmidt lathe. More detailed pictures may be found here http://www.lathes.co...midt/page2.html

First off let me make it clear that I am not a watchmaker or even have any idea what i am doing. this is just another passing interest that only has to be better than watching TV on winter nights. this was last winters project and I havn't progresses furthur than these few test pieces. My goal it to repair the staff in the table movement and then i can claim to be an expert. 

My lathe is an ebay special and runs true but the 8mm collets are missing. these cost a fortune so I have devised two alternative methods of work holding.

1. drive dog and centers

2. wax chuck or in my case the loctite chuck.

Some pics










The heardened steel prepared with centered ends and installed to a drive dog.










Driving center and draw bolt. These are home made parts.










The Loctite chuck. Again homemade. So the steel blank is glued in with loctite and the staff would be cut without a tail center.










Some 3mm HSS cutting tools.










The patient. Spot the broken staff.

...will post and add more....


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## DavidH

After numerous attempts we have something that looks like a staff but not like the one I need.










Now on to the lathe










I am using a bigger lathe as a driver for the Lorch collet lathe. This is because I am a bit pushed for space in the workshop. So this negates the need for a bench and drive motor set up. Everything can go away into a shoebox when finished with.










Drive pulley










And the collet lathe mounted ready for work.










Action shots










..and between centers.


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## DavidH

If you are going to make small parts then you will need to measure them. This device is made from a standard dial indicator. Pictures will do the talking.



















So get yourself on to ebay and buy some junk and get it going  .


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