# Oh Sh*t!!



## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

I noticed there was some dust under the crystal of my Citizen Newmaster, so I decided to have a go at removing it, I carefully removed the back using one of Roys case back tools, depressed the button to release the crown/stem and then very carefully removed the movement.

I then removed the dust and gently replaced the movement, depressed the button and pushed the crown/stem in, unfortunately the watch wouldn`t wind up but the hands would turn









I again removed the crown/stem and tried it a few more times, still no joy and now, whereas the winder would push in past the hand adjusting position, it won`t anymore










Off to Birstall for some professional TLC I think


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

I know what the problem is.....









Always pull the crown out to hand-setting position _before_ pressing the button to remove the crown and stem. Did you do that Mac?


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Why wasnt that tip in the new sub forum Paul









Its your fault


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Silver Hawk said:


> I know what the problem is.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don`t remember









Can anything be done to sort it?


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## PhilM (Nov 5, 2004)

Hope you get it sorted soon Mac and without to much of a dent on the wallet


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Now you see if it's been a timex you'd be able to fiddle around inside and get the thing back together!

Mac, you know not to touch what you don't understand!


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

pg tips said:


> Now you see if it's been a timex you'd be able to fiddle around inside and get the thing back together!
> 
> Mac, you know not to touch what you don't understand!


I had no problems on a Vostok, so thought I knew what I was doing
















BTW I`d still like to know if, as seems likely, I didn`t pull out the crown to the hand-setting position before pressing the button, how bad it is & can it be fixed?


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Basically mac some movements you do and some you don't the knack is in the knowledge.

All that happens when you pull the stem to hand set is you move a tiny lever (I think it's proper name is the pull out piece). This allows the stem to come out. .

If you haven't and it's a movement you need to then the lever will be in the way of the stem going in. All that needs to be done is the lever needs to be manually moved to the right position so the stem can go back in.

Some movements this is dead easy as you can see the lever and just move it with a screwdriver (it's usually sprung so you may have to manually move the spring as well), but some movements you may have to start stripping down to get at the lever.

Oh and just hope the castle and crown wheels haven't fallen out of place whilst you've been messing around trying to get it back in!


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

pg tips said:


> Basically mac some movements you do and some you don't the knack is in the knowledge.
> 
> All that happens when you pull the stem to hand set is you move a tiny lever (I think it's proper name is the pull out piece). This allows the stem to come out. .
> 
> ...


Thanks Paul, right it`s off to Birstall to be sorted by someone who knows what he`s doing


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## makky (Jul 14, 2004)

Reminds me of the first time I took a watch apart.

Picked up the minute had with a pair of metal tweezers.

Squeezed too hard. The lume cracked and fell out.

I thought all hands were solid.










Doh.

Oh, and...

The first time I tried to regulate a 2824...

Used a small screwdriver to nudge the lever a little.

No problem easy peasy.

Until the driver slipped off and went straight through the balance wheel.

While it was running !








:crybaby:


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## johnbaz (Jan 30, 2005)

paul

"Oh and just hope the castle and crown wheels haven't fallen out of place whilst you've been messing around trying to get it back in!"

this won't happen usually unless you have the dial off whilst the stem is out









john

mac, you may be able to save the situation by using a small (.30) screwdriver, the cheap ones are the best, using a loupe and small pliers bend the tip of said screwdriver to form a hook (you may need to anneal it over the gas hob, let it become orange then aircool for about half a minute, then bend it), under good light look into the hole for the stem on the movement (using the loupe), on the dial side you may see the very small bolt on the pull piece, using the hook/screwdriver, pull this bolt until you feel/hear a click-job done







, replace the movement,press the button and replace the winder.

i've 'cheated' like this a few times, it saves time removing the hands/dial to reset the pull piece


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

I wish I`d left well alone, but oh no I had to try and have one more little fiddle, now the crown stem won`t even click in, I really am going to leave it to the nice man at Birstall and hope I`ve not done any serious damage


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## pugster (Nov 22, 2004)

nice tip john , ive had to remove the dial/hands a few times when this has happened,will give this a go next time.


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## johnbaz (Jan 30, 2005)

mac

it seems that the crown wheel has moved, don't worry, you havn't done anything terminal, it now probably needs the dial off to reinstall the crownwheel correctly so that the teeth on the face meshes with the teeth on the castle wheel, see pics below.



















hope this puts your mind at ease mac









john.

btw, the small bolt/peg that you would have been looking for is directly under where the line that says pull out piece (from the r/h side) enters that component.

EDIT- paul, i thought you meant the crown and castle wheels falling out of the movement, i realise now what you meant, i never gave a thought to the fact that they can become un-meshed







, sorry.


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Thanks John


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

johnbaz said:


> paul
> 
> this won't happen usually unless you have the dial off whilst the stem is out










been there done that







I remember the 1st time this happened I was fiddeling for ages wondering what was wrong, then I trod on the crown wheel on the carpet!

good tip about hooking the pull out piece btw


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Recieved a phone call from Birstall this afternoon to inform me that the crown pinion was missing and that although he`d try to find another one it might be very difficult









I vaguely remembered hearing a tiny noise when I was fiddling with the crown on 24th April, it must have dropped out then









Anyway I started looking around the area where I was working at the time, without much hope of finding the thing, it`s only 2mm in diameter and 1mm deep

and I have hoovered the floor since then









Amazingly I found it behind the radiator out pipe which had protected it from the hoover a miracle or what?
















I deceided to use the magnetised bit from my B&D electric screwdriver to pick it up, well Birstall should be able to demag it and I darn`t risk dropping it again









Here`s an indication of it`s size with a 5p for comparison...










I packed it well, still attached to the magnetised bit as I didn`t want risk losing it on the way to Birstall


















Then inside a box in another plastic bag, paranoid or what?

























Steve at Birstall said demaging the pinion wasn`t a problem









He did mention the watch was also missing a dial foot nut but that this wasn`t difficut to replace


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## pugster (Nov 22, 2004)

good to hear this ended well







,thing is did you learn from the experience ?


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Oh Yes!!


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> I vaguely remembered hearing a tiny noise when I was fiddling with the crown on 24th April, it must have dropped out then


Bit ususual for it to fall out when only messing with the crown and stem.









But glad you found it....what did I say about always having a magent in your watch tool chest


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

pg tips said:


> Oh and just hope the castle and crown wheels haven't fallen out of place whilst you've been messing around trying to get it back in!



















Mac I'm glad you found the crown wheel and all will be well no doubt.

guess what though I've gone and done the same on one of mine, got to strip the thing now to try and rebuild it


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## johnbaz (Jan 30, 2005)

mac

there's a clue here as to how it came out, birstalls said that there was a dial foot nut missing, this means that when you had the movement (and stem) out, the dial could have come away from the movement just enough for the crown wheel to slip through the gap









one of those watchmakers benches with the high back & sides would have not allowed the part to go very far-you'll have to get one mac









i'm really glad you've got it sorted mac, it would have been a shame for such a nice watch to have been consigned to the drawer









john


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Silver Hawk said:


> What did I say about always having a magnet in your watch tool chest


An essential watchmakers tool

























pg tips said:


> pg tips said:
> 
> 
> > Oh and just hope the castle and crown wheels haven't fallen out of place whilst you've been messing around trying to get it back in!
> ...


Glad I`m not the only one











johnbaz said:


> mac
> 
> there's a clue here as to how it came out, birstalls said that there was a dial foot nut missing, this means that when you had the movement (and stem) out, the dial could have come away from the movement just enough for the crown wheel to slip through the gap
> 
> ...


Well the dial was somewhat lose when I took out the movement so as you say that explains it, I don`t feel so bad now









You`re right it would have been a real shame, although as the HMT 17 Jewel movement is just a licenced built version of the Citizen`s one I suppose parts from an HMT might fit the Citizen


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> I noticed there was some dust under the crystal of my Citizen Newmaster, so I decided to have a go at removing it, I carefully removed the back using one of Roys case back tools, depressed the button to release the crown/stem and then very carefully removed the movement.
> 
> I then removed the dust and gently replaced the movement, depressed the button and pushed the crown/stem in, unfortunately the watch wouldn`t wind up but the hands would turn
> 
> ...


I've just done exactly the same thing to my Ricoh Ocean Master for exactly the same reason - dust & hairs on the dial/underside of the crystal























What's even worse is that I didn't even manage to remove the stem so the bloody hairs & dust are still there!! The watch is still working & keeping time but the hands/date can't be set & the watch now can't be wound manually. To be honest the watch wasn't keeping particularly good time. It's NOS from the 60's or 70's so it's probably long overdue a service anyway. My only worry is that something's broken within the mechanism & parts will be impossible to find because it's such a rare watch!







!

It's very annoying but I've got no one to blame but myself - in my defense I've removed the crown/stem from many watches before without any problems at all. It'll be the first time I've used the watch repairer at Birstall so I hope it all works out ok.

In a word .................. BOLLOX


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Sorry to hear that Paul, that Ricoh is a nice watch.







I hope it is not a costly repair.


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