# Rolex service intervals



## pinco000 (Nov 15, 2012)

Hi guys, hope you all had a good New Year !

I have one question. I will own my Rolex Sub for 5 years early december 2017.

With this in mind I remember the gentlemen who sold me my watch, said that I should bring them in 5 years for servicing.

So gave them a call to gather more info, whether it would wise to bring a month earlier maybe so my service is ot delayed by Xmas.

To my suprise I was asked if there any problem with them, if they are too much ahead or too behind the actual time and if not, than I can wait longer for the first service. He suggested between 5-8 years.

What is your opinion guys? How often do you service your watch? Thanks

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## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

I only service if noticing issues. But I don't go in water with my watches. The only reason I could see having any kind of regular maintenance is got water seal assurance.

Up to you, but I'd say don't worry about any necessary maintaining just wear and enjoy. Most watches can be solid without any maintenance at all. Maybe a good cleaning would be smart though.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Seen huge debates on this very subject. Somewhere on the net is the auction price of a vintage Daytona sold after 20 odd years ownership for a record price with all original papers including original retailers bag. The watch had never seen a service. It's up to the owner. If, for your own piece of mind you'd be happier having it serviced, the decision is yours.


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## irons (Nov 16, 2016)

Difficult one. Some people say every 5 or so years. Better to get it serviced than have something serious go wrong with it. Similar to a car.

Some say better not to muck about with mechanical watches unless you have to. Wait till it shows some kind of fault.

I go with the latter. Some stories you hear of watches coming back from servicing and not running as good as before the service. There's a lot of intricate parts for someone to start taking to bits if it's not needed.


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## chris_s (Sep 13, 2009)

Horses for courses I guess. Most people recognise the importance of car servicing - oil gets old and contaminated, parts wear and may either fail or cause damage elsewhere, ultimately resulting in a breakdown on the side of the road. Now I agree a watch isn't likely to leave you unable to get home, but the other principles surely apply. Just had my automatic serviced, and there was a worn 'hack stop', which whilst not serious could have caused issues left unchecked. It's also keeping much better time now too. You pays your money......


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2017)

Even with modern synthetic lubricants, by the 5 year mark the oils have dried up and no longer provide lubrication, the consistancy of the oil is sticky tar. It's physics 101, no lubricant + rotating parts = wear.

Unfortunately timekeeping is not a good indicator of movement condition, and a modern watch will happily tick away with no apparent issues all the while the the pivots and bearings are wearing out. By the time you the owner notice a timekeeping issue, damage is done, damage that almost certainly requires new parts.

As has been mentioned, lots of heated arguments on this over the years, most people are on one side or the other and many people think that watchmakers such as myself have created this whole servicing 'myth' to make money from unsuspecting watch owners. There are many factors that have to be considered in this discussion, value of the watch, parts availability, cost of parts, cost of service, etc...

When discussing high value watches, it is almost always less expensive to clean and lubricate than to have to replace parts, that is if you can even source the parts needed now that the Swiss Parts Embargo is in full swing. Having serviced thousands of movements I have seen first hand the damage lack of regular servicing causes, but 95% of the watches that arrive at my shop are here due to one problem or another, the other 5% are here because the owners believe in regular service as a way to maintain their investment.

A competent watchmaker is quite capable of disassembling and re-assembling a movement and returning it to it's original specifications. Yes there are lots of intricate parts, but that doesn't mean that they are not designed to be disassembled and re-assembled so that it works properly. There are a lot of so called professional watchmakers who do botched work, so the owner has to choose carefully.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

I have always been of the opinion that the recommendation "Once every 5 years" was made on the safe side. I recommend a service if time keeping is effected or the operation of the crown is not smooth, or some other obvious issue. My watches see particular regular services because I have a friendly watchmaker but I think if I had to pay full retail prices I would be trying to extend the periods further than 5 years.

@Horlogerie Is it fair to say that if a watch see's heavy usage that it is deserving of more attention than a watch that is worn perhaps twice per month? Could you also comment about whether the oils will dry up quicker in a non-sealed case than in a waterproofed type one?


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## pinco000 (Nov 15, 2012)

Horlogerie said:


> Even with modern synthetic lubricants, by the 5 year mark the oils have dried up and no longer provide lubrication, the consistancy of the oil is sticky tar. It's physics 101, no lubricant + rotating parts = wear.
> Unfortunately timekeeping is not a good indicator of movement condition, and a modern watch will happily tick away with no apparent issues all the while the the pivots and bearings are wearing out. By the time you the owner notice a timekeeping issue, damage is done, damage that almost certainly requires new parts.
> As has been mentioned, lots of heated arguments on this over the years, most people are on one side or the other and many people think that watchmakers such as myself have created this whole servicing 'myth' to make money from unsuspecting watch owners. There are many factors that have to be considered in this discussion, value of the watch, parts availability, cost of parts, cost of service, etc...
> When discussing high value watches, it is almost always less expensive to clean and lubricate than to have to replace parts, that is if you can even source the parts needed now that the Swiss Parts Embargo is in full swing. Having serviced thousands of movements I have seen first hand the damage lack of regular servicing causes, but 95% of the watches that arrive at my shop are here due to one problem or another, the other 5% are here because the owners believe in regular service as a way to maintain their investment.
> A competent watchmaker is quite capable of disassembling and re-assembling a movement and returning it to it's original specifications. Yes there are lots of intricate parts, but that doesn't mean that they are not designed to be disassembled and re-assembled so that it works properly. There are a lot of so called professional watchmakers who do botched work, so the owner has to choose carefully.


if I decide to get the service done, than it will Watches of Switzerland where I bought them from & my hopes are that they will send the watch to Rolex in Switzerland to get them disassembled, lubricated, change the seals and then ship them back to me..

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pinco000 said:


> if I decide to get the service done, than it will Watches of Switzerland where I bought them from & my hopes are that they will send the watch to Rolex in Switzerland to get them disassembled, lubricated, change the seals and then ship them back to me..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


and obviously get them polished to perfection..

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## ong (Jul 31, 2008)

My Rolex sub wasn't serviced for the first 15 years of its life. When acquired it was gaining 15 seconds a day so I had it Rolex serviced and now expect another 10 years or so before needing another.

Shorter intervals would appear unnecessary unless a problem arises.

I'm also a bit surprised that modern lubricants still gum up watch movements as thought this was in the past with unsealed cases and mineral oils


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

@Horlogerie Respectfully I would be interested in your comments on the following.

My old friend, and watch repair man par excellence, retired and made it quite clear that after nearly 60 years of experience, he never wanted to see the inside of a watch again.  Which I can sympathize with. I then went through a selection of "watch destroyers" until I finally found one, highly recommend. Now my vintage stuff gets wound up once a month, and gets worn once in a blue moon, but my daily stuff gets serviced regularly. I still visit my old pal and when discussing what I was being charged, he snorted, "the jobs not being done properly at that price. Partial strip and dip boy's, used to be the scourge of my life". Now what I'm coming to is the fact he may be correct. I used to repair / service my pals garden machinery in exchange for my watches getting a service, so I was never aware of his charges, and even though I never had a problem with any, he'd say " four years since I saw that (whatever) best bring it in. Since he has stopped looking after my watches, I have become increasingly aware that the necessity to have them serviced at two to three year intervals has become worryingly apparent.


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## deano1956 (Jan 27, 2016)

well for me I am not a expert in watches, so I am will accept and follow the manufacturer guidelines/advice on servicing for the more valuable watches I have, that may make me a sucker but it would not be the first time  , I take it as a given for the running costs and of ownership of the watch much like a expensive car, and I am happy to also follow the more expertise of people like rob and his advice and have them regularly serviced , my only worry is even when returning to the manufacturers or their nominated service centre it get done right and comes back as or better than I sent it away for what ever reason.

deano


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## Padders (Oct 21, 2008)

My Rolex was showing signs of degradation on performance on my timing machine at 7years old so the estimate in the original post is probably correct. The very latest Rolex models now claim that the service interval has been pushed out to 10years but it remains to be seen if that can be relied on.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

@pinco000 there are pro's and con's of the watch going back to Rolex... personally I wouldn't ever use them.

Firstly because of their history destroying the value of watches by changing the hands...and there is no option to stop them in such practice. An independant at least you could request no parts to be changed.

The pollishing of watches is also a highly debated topic, Rolex people are probably amongst the fussiest with regards to having cases in original unpolished condition.

Value for money I just think the main dealers are onto a coup with the prices charged. A good independant (certified by Rolex) will do a good job for far less money...someone like Russell Talerman in London or the numerous other recommended firms around the country. He can also pollish exceptionally well if you chose to go that route.

As long as the watch is maintained I don't think it matters who does it. Though if you have a relationship with Watches of Switzerland I am sure they will be fine...as your watch becomes vintage I would avoid though in order to preserve its integrity.


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## Padders (Oct 21, 2008)

All good points above but a recent model like the OPs using Super Luminova or whatever Rolex calls it wont see any meaningful change in the lume colour so new hands etc wouldn't be the issue it would be with a tritium model. I would have no problem sending a recent Rolex to RSC if it needed a refurb in addition to a service. No problem other than the cost of course. I sent my EXP II to Duncan Hewitt and he serviced it and changed the seals for about £170 all in. Rather cheaper than the circa £430 Rolex charge. It's running fine now.


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## pinco000 (Nov 15, 2012)

my thoughts are that if I return my watch to Watches of Switzerland, they will send them to Rolex to get them sorted rather than someone else. Im not sure I would be happy with anyone else opening them, changing parts if needed etc.
With regards to the decision whether wait longer or not, I guess I should figure out how much time they are gaining per month ( they are gaining time ) and decide upon that fact whether it is enough to justify service.

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## Guest (Jan 9, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> @Horlogerie Respectfully I would be interested in your comments on the following.
> 
> "the jobs not being done properly at that price. Partial strip and dip boy's, used to be the scourge of my life".


 I see a lot of botched work, that being work being done by unqualified individuals, typically the price dictates the quality of the work, most of the time, there are exceptions.

I also see a lot of 'swish-n-dip' where the complete movement is run through the washing machine and the final rinse contains some lubricant. Mostly I see this on high end watches.



Daveyboyz said:


> Is it fair to say that if a watch see's heavy usage that it is deserving of more attention than a watch that is worn perhaps twice per month? Could you also comment about whether the oils will dry up quicker in a non-sealed case than in a waterproofed type one?





ong said:


> I'm also a bit surprised that modern lubricants still gum up watch movements as thought this was in the past with unsealed cases and mineral oils


 Heavy use or daily use will naturally cause more wear than intermittent or once in a while use.

Regarding sealed vs non-sealed cases, I have not noticed any difference in the drying of the oils between either type, the big difference is that there will be more contaminants in the non-sealed case - dust - which is very abrasive and is attracted by the oil, forming a nice grinding paste as the oils dry out.

As for the cost of servicing, for most of us (excluding those that have gone bald) the cost of servicing every 5 years is less than you spend on haircuts over that same 5 year period. I would think a watch is at least as valuable as your hair.

I always send my customers pictures of their watches in pieces to prove that I am not performing a swish-n-dip...





*Doesn't a sealed case mean that no contaminants can get in? Well no, it doesn't...*

Here is a Rolex Submariner, which I think we can all agree is a good water proof sealed watch. Last service 5 years ago. If you think that a sealed watch doesn't get contaminated, my hands on experience indicates otherwise.





Everyone uses the timekeeping as a way of determining if the movement needs service. There is a lot more to the movement than just the timekeeping. There are many parts that can wear out without the owner being aware, including the train and balance staff pivots. Here is an example, in this case this is the main automatic winder to mainspring gear, check out the worn out pivot.



I made a new pivot, here is what it should look like.



In the end no one can decide or tell anyone else what to do with their watches as far as serving is concerned. What I see when I remove the caseback is not what most customers expect the condition of their movement to be in.


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## ong (Jul 31, 2008)

Thanks for this and appreciate the advice and examples. As you say much depends on individual preference with regard to service intervals and that Sub looks not to have. been so well sealed as the owner expected . Salutary tale for us all I guess.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Every 10,000 miles or every 12 months, which ever comes sooner.


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## Pip (Jul 19, 2016)

I wouldn't send anything to Rolex that I cared about unless it was still under warranty. There are much better people about imho, Rolex are by necessity a semi production line.

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## Padders (Oct 21, 2008)

Pip said:


> I wouldn't send anything to Rolex that I cared about unless it was still under warranty. There are much better people about imho, Rolex are by necessity a semi production line.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Yes but who else would you trust to refurbish a Rolex case? There are alternatives in the case of Omegas such as STS but not really for Rolex, though Rocco probably does a good job from what I hear.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Like I say I would trust a guy like Russell Tallerman to refurb a case, my preference would be to leave alone though unless badly damaged.

Rolex used to approve and issue tools to independants but have since realised they can stitch up the game by not supplying parts and refusing part jobs telling you that you need a full service (including many things you never wanted)

People are scared an independant will Frankenstien their watch, it could happen...beware of cowboys...but those reputable firms have no interest in that and are probably more invested in taking care of you and respecting your preferences than a factory return.


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## Pip (Jul 19, 2016)

Padders said:


> Yes but who else would you trust to refurbish a Rolex case? There are alternatives in the case of Omegas such as STS but not really for Rolex, though Rocco probably does a good job from what I hear.


 Honestly? I don't know yet, but I know what I would do: I'd hit the forums and ask. I trust the opinions of lots of the people on here and a couple of other places (although steer clear of the lunatics on some of them!).


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

No, I can't really comment on Rollie servicing, but the other big maker of watches that end in "ex" I can. 

Swish Dunk is basically the recommended method in the TIMEX service manuals to service their watches, but bear in mind that these were designed to last only maybe 10 years and either have one service or get stuffed in the bin and get yourself a new one :yes:

I often pick up a forty plus year old Timex from the bay or car boot that will take a 15 minute swish dunk service and start up again without any further work required - - but really, after all these years, it's not enough, and a thorough strip down, clean, check and re-assemble will see them run so much better even. Ssoooooo - based on that, I reckon it's safe to say that a proper strip, check, clean and re-assemble of *ANY *watch can only be a good thing, however, given the skill required to do this (and I've tried) it's many times not financially viable against the total value of the timepiece, and skilled horologists able to do this kind of work are becoming almost extinct! They simply cannot charge the "correct" rate for the job, folks can't or won't pay it! :bash:

That's where us hobbyists score, we can take the time and learn the skills for a lot of the tasks, perhaps to some extent! I nowadays know when I can't go any further, I've a pile I euphemistically refer to as the "spares" box = the failures :huh:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Interesting stuff.

With regards to Rolex have any of you actually been in a Rolex service centre. I was in the one in Singapore for a mooch and they had a viewing gallery. Clinical would be an understatement. A production line would imply that one did a bit and passed it down the line but as far as I could see the techs were only working on one watch at a time on their own. They obviously have access to all the right tools and parts which an indie might not have.

A mate of mine had an old battered Sub that he bought in early 80's, 20 odd years and it had never missed a beat, which he had serviced at an RSC and it came back like a new watch. Even on close inspection you would of had no idea what sort of state it was in before the service. About £500 for another 20 years didn't seem like a bad deal to me.

It's also a bit of an urban myth about the all or nothing service, I was told I'd get a quote detailing the work they recommend and they would do only part of if that was what I wanted. Unless the girl in the AD wasn't being truthful, that seemed unlikely but I suppose you never know.

There are a lot of people out there purport to be experts but in my experience over the years with various things is that there's a lot of billy bullsh!tters as well so mine in time will go back to Rolex.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> Interesting stuff.
> 
> With regards to Rolex have any of you actually been in a Rolex service centre. I was in the one in Singapore for a mooch and they had a viewing gallery. Clinical would be an understatement. A production line would imply that one did a bit and passed it down the line but as far as I could see the techs were only working on one watch at a time on their own. They obviously have access to all the right tools and parts which an indie might not have.
> 
> ...


 Glad you posted that Bond. Something that I am in total agreement with. :thumbsup:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Igerswis said:


> Had an SD sent to Rolex for regulation under warranty had had no issues.
> 
> Brother's Sub was sent recently to Rolex for a full service and bezel replacement and case refurb and it came back brand new.
> 
> Plenty of independants that are just as good, but there's plenty who are ten times worse. At least with Rolex you know they're not going to disappear overnight should anything happen.


 When my explorer required a service and refurb, I contacted a highly recommend independent. Had to go through a booking in progress, and told there was a waiting list and I would be contacted, even gave me a reference number. The guy must have quite a workload, seven years and I'm still waiting. The watch has a new owner now, and I've got another one that goes "home" for servicing.


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## Padders (Oct 21, 2008)

Btw the SD is a special case and if you want it pressure tested at anything near its depth rating it will need to go to RSC. Oh and it is my understanding that Rolex won't supply parts for the SD to anyone any more including authorised independents like Genesis, supposedly to ensure the pressure testing is done properly by them in house.


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## Padders (Oct 21, 2008)

Igerswis said:


> Sorry it was the SD4000 not the DSSD. You are right about the pressure testing on the DSSD however


 It is the same for the SD4000 too last time I asked: RSC only.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Igerswis said:


> At least with Rolex you know they're not going to disappear overnight should anything happen.


 This is very true. It's all about assessing the risk. Small operators go out of business for various reasons. I've lost one watch as a result of a bereavement, and then there was this guy, who fortunately gave off an odor the only time I paid a visit.

A Dundee watch repairer has been jailed for embezzling and pawning more than 130,000 worth of customers' watches, jewellery and cash.

Kevin Mitchell, who has two previous convictions for embezzlement and theft, was given 34 months by Sheriff Ian Anderson at Dundee Sheriff Court after he admitted 32 charges involving dozens of high-value designer items.


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## Montybaber (Nov 5, 2015)

I have only ever heard good things about RSC, on the subject of servicing I dont really understand spending thousands on a watch and scrimping on maintenance

These are luxury items and a few hundred £ every 5 years should be a no brainer


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Its a balancing act Monty.

Its like a main car dealer...they are more expensive and won't necessarily do a better job. Now chances are they will do a good job, and they are pretty safe but a independent will either do a better job for less money or he will do a worse job it all depends on which independent you use. So if you have a good independent that is trustworthy there really isn't much risk, but if you don't know one then there is a small risk attached.

Like I said above, the thing that is lacking with Rolex is that there is no bespoke service. You give them the watch and they do what they want with it, which in the case of older watches can be a disaster when a watch comes back with an old dial and new hands that no longer match because they have different lume on them.

There is no right or wrong answer here, it is personal preference.


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2017)

Daveyboyz said:


> There is no right or wrong answer here, it is personal preference.


 Exactly.


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## pinco000 (Nov 15, 2012)

little update guys. I just went into a rolex store in selfridges London asked about the servicing. 
They advised me to take my rolex to head office in London where they will accept them and I will save two weeks time while servicing the watch.
My watch then will be sent to Kent where Rolex have a base where they will dismantle the watch, service it, then they will test them for waterproofing for few days and finish the service with polishing to bring them to prostine condition with all the plastic around the watch like when I bought my watch. This will cost around £400-500

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## Padders (Oct 21, 2008)

One thing to bear in mind is that Rolex have been putting pressure on independant authorised repairers (ie those with parts accounts) for a number of years to charge exactly the same as RSC for like for like repairs, thus removing the advantage of a keener price. Genesis, Bill Rice, Webwatchmaker etc etc now seem to charge pretty much the same as RSC. There are of course still advantages in using an independent and there are obviously non-authorised repairers who do a great job who are much cheaper but the way the wind is blowing, there may not be accessibility to genuine parts for the cheaper guys for ever. A similar situation to that which has already occurred with Omega seems to be happening here.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Can I just point out that (have never dealt with him tho') Horologie tells us he is a "MBHI" - - that would be a pretty good recommend for me, MBHI, FBHI etc! indicates the same sort of thing as Mrs Mel and Me'sen being Assoc.UKA and Members NDTA - - we've been examined and qualified to teach Dance as Professionals through a pretty rigorous procedure and accepted as "up to or above standard" and includes various ancillary things you wouldn't think pertained to dancing, suitability of premises, risk assessments of clients etc., and so on!

So if you use an independent to service any make of watch, that sort of qualification is the minimum you should be looking for - - a plus of personal recommends is even better!


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## ong (Jul 31, 2008)

pinco000 said:


> little update guys. I just went into a rolex store in selfridges London asked about the servicing.
> They advised me to take my rolex to head office in London where they will accept them and I will save two weeks time while servicing the watch.
> My watch then will be sent to Kent where Rolex have a base where they will dismantle the watch, service it, then they will test them for waterproofing for few days and finish the service with polishing to bring them to prostine condition with all the plastic around the watch like when I bought my watch. This will cost around £400-500
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I did just this through Mappin and Webb with my Sub last year. The movement service plus basic case polish was the figure you've been quoted and I was given additional options such as new bezel, crystal,bracelet etc. I had the bezel and crystal replaced and the result is pretty much as new although the case has been a bit over polished in my opinion. They also refreshed the Luminova which was a plus. Here's the finished article. Well worth it in my view.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

I'm sure, without mentioning the name, some of you will remember a certain "watch repairer" who appeared like a rash on various forums , famed for spectacular botch jobs and non existent customer service. At the time, if you did a search for a uk based watch repair service, it was always one of the first to appear. I've just Googled " watch repair uk " (as a search title, not a business), still there, second page. If you enter the company name on Google the fourth and fifth searches are from Watch forums CLEARLY indicating the level of appalling service received. The sixth search is HotUKdeals, where someone is asking about the same company and getting positive feedback. :sign_wtf: It's like a Hammer Horror film. "Don't go near the haunted castle" and that's just what they do.

Needless to say, the enquiry being made on the review site, is regarding not wanting to pay manufacturers service charges.


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2017)

Was this the individual who was referred to as "The Butcher of..."?


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Horlogerie said:


> Was this the individual who was referred to as "The Butcher of..."?


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## chas g (Nov 20, 2016)

Horlogerie - excellent post with pictures of watch parts.

I can just imagine a big sneeze and having to search the floor


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

So you've got a five/ten maybe if it's a bit vintage twenty plus grand watch and you want to save £100/150.



:laugh: :laugh:


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

I prefer the example you have a twenty grand watch, you want to protect it from several grand depreciation when Rolex ignore you and make it non-original by sticking Luminova hands on it ^^

Or is this another example of only hearing what you want to hear?


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Hmm, I've just spoken to a very helpful lady at Rolex St James Square regarding getting my watch serviced. If I want a movement only service by request, which is what I want, then I shall get a movement only service. The refurbishment is a "complimentary" service, and if I want the old hands left then they get left. Phone them yourself. Price is still the same, polish or not, which I'm quite happy with. Fact.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Glad to hear that Wrench, because there's a heap of horror stories concerning this issue. Maybe it comes down more to people not knowing to specifying these things, or maybe some branches are more accommodating than others.

I still stick to my opinion that if you have a relationship with a watchmaker who you trust then there is no need to use a main dealer (of any brand) but either way doesn't make you wrong.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Daveyboyz said:


> I prefer the example you have a twenty grand watch, you want to protect it from several grand depreciation when Rolex ignore you and make it non-original by sticking Luminova hands on it ^^
> 
> Or is this another example of only hearing what you want to hear?


 As you might have read several other posters in this thread you do get the options to have it done the way you want it done.

Just as an example I've contemplated getting my LV serviced and obviously I'd like to keep the original bezel insert. Not a problem accoring to the nice lady.

Despite several posts pretty much saying the same thing I'm at a bit of a loss as to which bit of it your not getting.

But hey ho maybe it's just me.

:biggrin:


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> Despite several posts pretty much saying the same thing I'm at a bit of a loss as to which bit of it your not getting..


 Yes, the several (one) post made since my comment saying that you get this option from one store must really stagger you that a) I didn't have a chrystal ball and b) it explains why you ignored the issue and decided to instead concentrate on saving £100 when clearly that was not the entire argument.

Or do you think stories like mismatched lume or unnecessary changing of parts have all been propogated by me under some different nom de plume? Personally I believe these problems have occurred and I have never had any issues with the independants I use.

Again you fail to miss the point at every opertunity and want to make sweeping statements rather than employ a little bit of thought and realise the world is not black and white. You try to paint a picture that I fail to understand something even after I quite clearly spelt out that its personal preference and there is no right and wrong.

Hey ho it must be you.


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## Pip (Jul 19, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> As you might have read several other posters in this thread you do get the options to have it done the way you want it done.
> 
> Just as an example I've contemplated getting my LV serviced and obviously I'd like to keep the original bezel insert. Not a problem accoring to the nice lady.
> 
> ...


 Fair cop in my case - to be honest, yes, I'm thinking of horror stories I've read on watch forums and not anything I have heard of first hand from someone I know, which is lazy thinking and drives me round the bend when other people do it so I should know better that to walk into the typical internet [email protected]@x of believing the first version of a story you read. I 'only' have a basic level Rolex worth about £3k or so and it's brand new, so replacing any parts is no issue anyway. If I had a vintage £20k Rolex I would be best served going and talking to Rolex and confirming in writing whatever we agree if I was concerned.

I'll get me coat...


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Pip said:


> Fair cop in my case - to be honest, yes, I'm thinking of horror stories I've read on watch forums and not anything I have heard of first hand from someone I know, which is lazy thinking and drives me round the bend when other people do it so I should know better that to walk into the typical internet [email protected]@x of believing the first version of a story you read. I 'only' have a basic level Rolex worth about £3k or so and it's brand new, so replacing any parts is no issue anyway. If I had a vintage £20k Rolex I would be best served going and talking to Rolex and confirming in writing whatever we agree if I was concerned.
> 
> I'll get me coat...


 I've always found Rolex very professional and helpful, and completely on the ball, as my short telephone conversation with their service center proved today.


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

Well having dealt with the two directors at Rolex UK Headquarters at London, they are of the firm opinion that they sell "New" watches and once they are one day old they become second hand and have nothing what so ever to do with them, "We dont concern ourselves with second hand watches, we just get an authorised service centre to service them"

This i found out in my battle over a second hand Rolex i had purchased for a considerable amount of money, which then turned out to be fake, Rolex UK would not help one bit, it ended up with even the reception women on the desk were both shocked and bewildered that i could not even get a letter from them stating that the watch in question was a fake.

I eventually got my money back before a court case started using the facts that the name "Rolex" is a registered trade mark, therefore any watch sold bearing that mark, must be the genuine article.

This was a 4 month battle, and i was thoroughly disgusted with Rolex UK's attitude towards their customers. They have no idea about "aftercare service"

Rant over..... 

And yes, we've all heard the stories about hands and dials being replaced and changed for newer ones.........i wonder what happens to the old dials?? Thrown away?? Hmmmm.... i think not..............


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Could be worse Harry, they advised a customer that the watch Paul Thorpe sold him was fake because it didn't have a crown laser etched into the glass. It was a 1970s watch so long before laser etching was introduced. Stories of people going back three times with misaligned bezels which they point blank are declaring good also illustrate that they aren't always perfect.

These big names are treated by some as the word of god, but just like anybody else they are not infallible, and if they are handing watches out to authorised service centres then their must be variation in how good a service is provided from branch to branch. This is why as encouraging as it appears that Wrench spoke to someone and got assurance (I don't want to be the guy saying "told you so" if there is a problem, I would prefer to be proven wrong on this) it doesn't entirely settle the case that there's an awful lot of Rolex floating around with mismatched hands/dials.

IF Rolex didn't mess them up I am wondering who the culprit is?


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## chas g (Nov 20, 2016)

Daveyboyz said:


> Could be worse Harry, they advised a customer that the watch Paul Thorpe sold him was fake because it didn't have a crown laser etched into the glass. It was a 1970s watch so long before laser etching was introduced. Stories of people going back three times with misaligned bezels which they point blank are declaring good also illustrate that they aren't always perfect.


 I have got two rolex watches both of which are 2013 GMT2 and Explorer 2.............................I cant see the crown laser etched into the glass on either of them


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Well I am not really a Rolex guy so shouldn't really comment on which years or models have or have not got this feature but it should appear very small at the 6 oclock of the dial.

Whether a watch is fake or not does not depend on just one feature though...fakes sometimes have this and its concievable to have a real one with a replacement glass or simply produced before its introduction.


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## Padders (Oct 21, 2008)

chas g said:


> I have got two rolex watches both of which are 2013 GMT2 and Explorer 2.............................I cant see the crown laser etched into the glass on either of them


 It really is tiny and you will need a loupe to see it and even then it is faint. It is rather clever, the dots are laser inscribed at different levels within the glass not just on the surface. As above, some genuine watches don't have them and some fakes have reasonable approximations so in fact it isn't much of a security feature really. These crystals were rolled out 2001-2003


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## ong (Jul 31, 2008)

Rolex's vary over the years as most are aware. My 2001 sub predated the engraved rehaut so may be called a fake by the ignorant. Apparently there are a number of ways of spotting genuine ones including the position of the crown symbol on the dial ,crown and bracelet. Matching the serial to the correct features also assists. I'm not an expert but did have this explained at a Rolex event that I was invited to a few years ago.


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## Barry Mclean (Nov 3, 2016)

I have a GMT16700 which I bought two years ago I to was told every five years however some say five to eight years owners I have heard of have waited a lot longer than that. If it goes to Rolex the service price is around six weeks and £650. I live near Newcastle there is watch shop there one of the two owners is Rolex trained and I believe they have a trade account with Rolex this is a difficult thing to obtain. They only use Rolex genuine parts and offer a two year warranty and charge around £350 a service can be completed in three weeks.


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## chas g (Nov 20, 2016)

Padders and Davyboyz...............................had a look which involved standing on the edge of my bath to get really close to the light and using a telephoto lens off my camera.......bingo on both watches the rolex crown on the glass between swiss and made.

thanks to both of you............I need to invest in a loop with a light source regards ChasG


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

The newer ones with the rolexrolex engraved rehaut have the serial at 6 o'clock where as the older ones have it between the lugs.

Probably around 2007 is the change over. My LV papers are dated Nov 2006 and it doesn't have the engraved rehaut but my GMT is only a couple of months newer and has the engraving. Both have the laser etched crown.

LV's are a bit of a minefield as some of the early ones didn't even have LV on the papers but had it on the green tag, some had it on the papers. Hence why some place a bit of extra value on a "full set" with all the bits and bobs.

All that aside back to the topic I'll still use Rolex, my understanding is the service centres are an integral part of Rolex as opposed to being independantly owned and just appoved by Rolex. Obviously I'll stand corrected if this isn't the case.

I've heard and read more good than bad about them and as said you do need to specify what you want done and of coarse it is possible that AD's dont convey this to people or people just don't ask. And yes it's entirely possible mistakes have been made.

Either way on balance it won't put me off using them, Ive seen the end results first hand and couldn't fault the results.

@harryblakes7

I'm a bit confused by your comments, did you actually buy the watch from a Rolex AD ??

If not why do you think Rolex should be even remotely interested that you were unfortunate enough to have picked up a fake. What did you expect from them.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> I've heard and read more good than bad about them and as said you do need to specify what you want done and of coarse it is possible that AD's dont convey this to people or people just don't ask. And yes it's entirely possible mistakes have been made.


 This has the highest probability of being fact. A lot of the negativity surrounding this subject comes from ill informed, unintentional, posts made on various forums. Lack of good communication can be a basis for a lot of problems. In my own line of business I always gave customers a QUOTATION as part of policy before carrying out work. What surprised me was the amount of people who didn't ask. Some were literally horrified and declined, but at least I had the sense to offer this service. That's why my yard, unlike some of my competitors, didn't have the "uncollected repairs stack".  I once witnessed a huge argument in a high street AD where a customer was being asked to pay £75 for a battery replacement in a gents quartz Longines dress watch, dropped off the same morning. No price had been quoted, and no price enquiry had been made. So who's to blame ?


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

@harryblakes7, pleased that you eventually was able to resolve your issue :thumbsup: but am also confused why Rolex didn't support your case, if indeed your example was purchased from an authorised distributor ?

From my knowledge & experience it is now the norm for high end Swiss manufacturer's to disassociate themselves with copies/fakes & will not give certification to this fact.

They simply don't want to devalue their products by publicly highlighting this growing problem but are active in other area's in trying to stem this rising tide.

Sadly there is an alarming number of fakes emanating from the East now, including 'vintage' models, which on first appearance look authentic?

For many years I've had a particular fondness for JB and have collected several of their offerings, particularly vintage models.

For purposes of authenticity (& insurance) mine are all returned for evaluation & any work that may be required. As a result I receive the appropriate documents of authenticity & more importantly, peace of mind!

Also, they do sympathetic restoration after exhaustive discussion with myself (usually involving dial & hands) :yes:

They also update their archives & maintain their patrimony.

I am now honoured to be part of their vintage heritage exchange programme.

Harry, had your watch been returned to Switzerland for evaluation I fear it may have been destroyed with no recompense to yourself, as they can under their National law's.

As always, 'Caveat Emptor'


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

What is worrying, is that "fakery" is being done on an industrial scale in the watch industry, as are pharmaceutical products, confectionery etc, etc, and through large scale corruption, are entering the legitimate supply chain. Bottle of counterfeit HP sauce anyone ?


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Igerswis said:


> Some people in this thread are the very reason we have Brexit and Trump.


 Like who? I don't have a clock cheap enough or large enough to fit in Trumps posterior.


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

BondandBigM said:


> The newer ones with the rolexrolex engraved rehaut have the serial at 6 o'clock where as the older ones have it between the lugs.
> 
> Probably around 2007 is the change over. My LV papers are dated Nov 2006 and it doesn't have the engraved rehaut but my GMT is only a couple of months newer and has the engraving. Both have the laser etched crown.
> 
> ...


 Hi, i did not buy it from an AD, i have bought from them in the past, this was from another place, which appeared to be knocking them out and selling them. What i wanted from them was just a letter saying they were not supposed to be involved with fake watches and selling them etc as it is their name which is being tarnished. The place was adament that they could sell them, i should have got the Police involved from the start.

but lesson learned, if i do get a new one ( which is doubtful now ) i will purchase from an AD



Karrusel said:


> @harryblakes7, pleased that you eventually was able to resolve your issue :thumbsup: but am also confused why Rolex didn't support your case, if indeed your example was purchased from an authorised distributor ?
> 
> From my knowledge & experience it is now the norm for high end Swiss manufacturer's to disassociate themselves with copies/fakes & will not give certification to this fact.
> 
> ...


 Yes i agree with all what you say, no it was not from an AD

It just left me feeling very sad about the watch, the Rolex company and everything.

If they had helped me ( what does a letter and a stamp cost? ) I would have been very happy to have bought a new one from an AD. Instead they lost my sale.

Anyway its just a can of worms i dont want to open anymore, just gives me a bad taste. Omega for me every time now.......


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