# My Great Grandfather's Watch



## johnfd (Jun 2, 2014)

Hello everyone. I've joined the forum to find out what I can about a pocket watch that's been passed on to me. I know very little about the subject other than what I've been able to find on the net. I think it's just an ordinary person's watch. I'm not looking to sell so I'm not interested in value. My grandfather, who died in the 70s used to refer to it as a "turnip" and suggested it was given to him by his father. Both of them were carpenters/wheelrights and often took items in exchange for work done.

The watch is silver and is in a second silver outer case. It's key wound and has a fusee and verge escapement (if those are the correct terms). The watch without the outer case is about 47mm across and about 21mm thick. The glass is about 24mm diameter. The hallmarks in both of these are the same and suggest to me that they were made in 1813 (or possibly 1793?). The London mark has a crown which I understand was removed in 1821.

The movement is marked "Jo Hallam, Nottingham" and "No 5443". I don't know if he (Joseph?) was a maker or seller. I can't find anything about him although there are other Hallams in Nottingham said to be watchmakers and there is still a Hallam's jewellers in that town.

I'll see if I can get some pictures up.

Here's the watch in its outer case.



and the hallmarks inside



This is it out of the outer case







and here are the hallmarks inside the actual watch casing



More to come in next post


----------



## johnfd (Jun 2, 2014)

And now for the movement.





The face appears to be enameled



The glass has been replaced with a piece of plastic (probably by my grandfather) which has yellowed. Should the original glass be domed? I have not dared wind the watch more than the slightest amount but can confirm that the watch runs and appears to keep time close enough. The watch is dirty inside and out. Can you recommend someone to give it a clean and possibly replace the glass. I realise this could cost a bit.

I know this has been a long couple of posts but hope it's interesting. I'm fascinated by all things mechanical!


----------



## Timez Own (Oct 19, 2013)

I'm no expert on watches so I'm sorry not to be able to help you in your quest, but that is a magnificent item to be the third generation owner of. You must be very proud of it


----------



## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

I will never forget sitting on my Great Grandfather's knee to examine his pocket watch. I can only have been about six but I remember it was a solid gold half-hunter in lovely condition and working well. The sad thing is that I have no idea where that watch went to. I think it must have passed down another family line other than my grandmother and my mother. Sad.

Your piece looks to be most interesting. It is so utterly simple in terms of its external appearance and the dial, and yet the movement has a verge escapement and rather nice engraved decoration. I could curse that I didn't buy a second-hand directory of watchmakers up to the year 1825 that I saw in a local second-hand bookshop, thinking that I would never need it. It would most certainly have included the watchmaker whose name is engraved on your great grandfather's watch movement. The book was quite an old edition and published by NRG press.


----------



## Peacefrog (Nov 15, 2013)

If you let the forum know where you live then you may get a recommendation with regards where to take the watch for a bit of TLC. You can't beat a bit of local knowledge.

By the way; like the watch.


----------



## johnfd (Jun 2, 2014)

I've updated my profile now. I'm in West Wales.

Thanks for the comments so far.


----------



## Will Fly (Apr 10, 2012)

As far as I can tell from the hallmark, the casing looks to have been assayed in London in 1813. My book gives an alternative date shield for that period which fits your "S". I don't have a maker's mark for "WJ" in my silver hallmarks book, but that's not unusual as it's not comprehensive. The net gives several WJs, but - to my mind - there's a London maker called William Jackson who was registered in 1809 and 1814 (fits your hallmark) and working as a case maker in King Street, Clerkenwell.

The "turnip" was so called because of the case shape which was needed to accommodate the fusÃ©e movement. I can't really tell from the pic (my old eyes), but is the chain missing, or am I not looking properly?


----------



## johnfd (Jun 2, 2014)

Thanks for the reply. The chain is there, wound round the drum as the watch was not wound up. This might be clearer



I took a chance and wound it a little. A very satisfying "tick" and seemed to keep good time.

Do you know if the glass should be flat like the bit of plastic there at the moment or domed? At 200 years old I thought it would be worth getting it done.


----------



## Will Fly (Apr 10, 2012)

Ah - now I see the chain! As for the glass, my guess is that it would have been domed, but it's difficult to say. If there's plastic in there at the moment then, yes, I'd certainly get that changed for something more fitting.


----------



## johnfd (Jun 2, 2014)

Thanks. I'm going to take the watch into a jewellers in Aberystwyth for an opinion. Unlikely they'll want to take on the work but they hopefully will be able to recommend someone. I've seen various replacement glasses advertised on the net but I'm not confident of being able to do it myself. I'll repair speedometers and small instruments during motorcycle resotrations but this is another matter!


----------



## fobfop59 (May 10, 2014)

As another new member I can only congratulate you on learning how to post pictures! Despite 30+ years in IT I still cannot fathom how to do it, and the article I have read describing the process has not helped either.


----------



## johnfd (Jun 2, 2014)

I'm a bit late getting back but, I did take the watch into a couple of places. The first wasn't interested but in the second the 2 guys working there wanted to look at it.

They confirmed the hallmarks date it to 1813 and said it didn't look too dirty but did need a service. They couldn't do it so phoned the retired jeweller, who they took over the shop from, for advice. He didn't know of anyone still working and, agreed that a service would be expensive as, quite likely, new parts would be required and these would have to be made. So no surprise there. They said replacing the glass wouldn't be a problem and could be done quite cheaply but would then show up the damage to the face. This could then be restored but would ruin the patina. They suggested polishing the plastic with brasso or the like to see if the yellowing could be reduced and then leaving it as it is.

I said that I had been frightened to wind it up more than a click or two in case I damaged it. "Oh don't worry about that" he said and wound it up. It ran for about 30 hours but gained the best part of an hour in that time. I've not tried to adjust it with the lever on the movement as I assume that running this fast is well outside its scope.

So what now? I will give it a clean externally but still would like to get it running properly. I'd then make a wooden stand for it and display it somewhere.

The one thing I didn't ask was what they thought it was worth as that hasn't seemed important before. However, now I need to weigh up the repair cost against value. That's if I can find someone capable of doing the work. Does anyone have a contact?

I know the forum frowns on giving valuations but, if someone could give me an idea of whether the watch is worth spending money on, I would appreciate it. I really don't know if it's worth Â£15 or Â£150!


----------



## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Google on

RyteTime Watch Repairs - - Steve Burrage

Woodland Technical Services - Greg (look at the Watch pages there

Both may be willing to service something like this, but you should contact before sending a watch to them by e-mail to be sure they want to take it on. Both do excellent work as many forum members confirm. :yes:

HTH a tad


----------



## johnfd (Jun 2, 2014)

Thanks Mel, I'll contact Steve Burrage to see what he has to say.

I'd still value an opinion on whether I should be laying out the cash on this particular watch.


----------



## Will Fly (Apr 10, 2012)

If the watch is gaining an hour in 30 hours, then it's almost certainly very dirty. Contrary to what you might think, dirt in a mechanism - for various technical reasons - makes the movement initially go faster.

A clean and service from a decent, skilled watch repairer will cost you in the region of Â£100-1Â£150. For a watch of the age, I personally think it's worth it - but then I love old watches!


----------



## johnfd (Jun 2, 2014)

Thanks Will. When I took it to the shop they made the comment that there were "no servicing marks" and I would think that, if it has ever been cleaned, this would have been at least 75 years ago. I think that the little black dots on the movement are tiny drops of oil mixed with dust. I've seen similar inside old motorcycle speedos.

I was thinking it would probably cost me Â£150 plus any parts and it will need a glass at least. I'm glad you think it worth the outlay. For me it's not just the financial value but also its history in the family. It's now been confirmed that it did belong to my great grandfather, Austin (1870-1955). Also I just like old mechanical things.


----------



## jnash (Dec 6, 2010)

Great Watch, Great Story, i would get it fixed up and past down another few generations if possible... thanks for sharing, love hearing stories of old finds or past down timepieces


----------



## setover (Aug 12, 2014)

It's old but very nice, its movement looks such special, it's that a face?


----------

