# Shangas Arrives With New Pocket Watches! (And One New Chain)



## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

What ho, chaps!

It's been about a month now, since I got back from Europe. While I was there, I purchased a pair of very handsome gold-filled pocket-watches. And after returning home, I purchased a gold-filled watch-chain. I present them for your approval.

I purchased the two watches for two hundred quid (total) at a flea-market in London, south of the River Thames.



















Apart from the bows, which show unavoidable wearing due to years of chain-scrape, the watches appear to be in near-mint condition.










They are a WALTHAM RIVERSIDE (16s, 17j, crown set, crown wind) on the RIGHT and an IWC Schaffhausen (16s, 15j, crown-wind, pin-set) on the LEFT. From 1900 and 1896, respectively.










And that's the chain.

I'm currently accumulating the funds to have the watches serviced. I will likely only be able to service ONE of the watches anytime soon, and I wanted to know...in your opinions...

...which one should I send off first?


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## stiff muckler (Aug 27, 2010)

Shangas said:


> I will likely only be able to service ONE of the watches anytime soon, and I wanted to know...in your opinions...
> 
> ...which one should I send off first?


Did Shangas spend da rest of da loot on da vintage hats?

stiff muckler ist im Haus! ("iiH!")

("Dat Shangas is a pretty snappy dresser, ja?")


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

Hahaha!! Nein, mein herr.

I already have two hats. (Okay, four. Two cheap ones, two felt ones. All four = Trilbies). I don't need more! (Okay, maybe just a few more...).

I spent the rest of my souvenier money on a rather large, precious antique purchase. And yes, I am a rather snappy dresser.










My choice of clothes for Chinese New Year celebrations (Yes, the photo is terrible, I apologise).


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## The Monk (Dec 23, 2010)

GORGEOUS watches! That IWC would go in first if it were me, if only on seniority.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Hey, Shangas.....long time no hear!...I thought you'd left us! Fabulous watches BTW...I'd get the Waltham serviced first...it looks the nicest (but that's only because I've got one too!)

Congrats on the watch chain too...I know you were distraught before Christmas, when you broke your current one....didn't you make that into a double Albert? What's the fob, BTW...looks interesting.....looking sharp, as always......Rog.


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

Hi Rodger!

Yes I'm back to irritate you all into insanity once more.

Yes I did break the old watch-chain. Stupid thing got snagged on something. When I rejiggered it, I turned it into a Double Albert instead (Since actual Double Alberts cost an arm and a leg and your left ear, right eye and three fingers). That chain is still a Double Albert and I still wear it. I bought this chain at the flea-market a few weeks ago.

The fob on the end of the chain is a sealing-stamp. Those things that you used to press into hot sealing-wax after folding up letters and envelopes. I suspect the chain's at least 100 years old. And the fob is unmarked. Completely smooth on the base. Unused. Never engraved. The chain is gold-filled, but I suspect that the fob itself is solid gold.

Current Score is 1:1. Let's see who else chimes in. I honestly cannot make up my mind which one to service. And I know I can only afford to get one serviced. The other one will have to wait several months before I have the funds to service it again. It's Chinese New Year at the moment, so my New Year money has given me a boost. But still...

So, only one watch will get serviced in the foreseeable future. Just need to decide which one.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Wooooh! That's a hard one, which to get serviced first 

SG, how about you send off the one that has the LEAST chain wear/scrape to the bow - - just because you can wear it when it comes back and not worry at all about wear and tear/scrape on the bow so much. Both are lovely watches - with the vest and trousers all you need now is a lovely dance partner for Ballroom Dancing :lol:


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## a6cjn (Oct 29, 2009)

Hi Shangas, didn't realise you were coming to the UK

Nice pair of watches you've picked up there

I think I'd get some prices from your watchman, both cost of service and retail value, before choosing which one.

I think the fob may be made from Pinchbeck, an alloy of copper and zinc, which was used as a gold substitute for making fobs

There is a simple chemical test which your man should be able to do for you and if it turns out to be solid gold, that should cover your service costs

Chris


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

I'm not selling them, Chris, and I'm also not interested in the value (which will probably something between Zip and Nada, if I know much about watches). I know how much he charges for servicing, so I'm just trying to figure out which one will go first.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Interesting to see that the movements have been built the opposite way round to each other. Personally, I still think the Waltham has the edge, with its screwed gold jewel cups, star micro regulator and what looks like a gold centre wheel, along with the beautiful damasceening on the plates...and with 17 jewels, what is referred to as 'fully' jewelled. The IWC is also beautiful, also with screwed jewel cups, but at 15 jewels (the centre wheel won't be jewelled), and simple regulator lever, probably not quite as good a movement as the Waltham.

However, the IWC is four years older than the Waltham.........but who knows their service history?.....


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

How does one operate a star regulator? I've only ever seen photographs of them. I've never had to actually USE one (and I prefer to regulate my own watches).


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## Mikrolisk (Jan 23, 2008)

Cool! Congratulations!

The IWC could be the old movement style (H6 instead of H5) of the calibre 52!

Andreas


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Shangas, here's a pic of my Waltham with a star regulator so you can see what I'm trying to explain...










If you look at the star through a loupe, you will see that the central shaft is actually a tiny pinion that engages with a series of teeth on the bottom of the stirrup. When you turn the star (using a piece of pegwood, or a cocktail stick) clockwise, it will move the stirrup and lever over to the left, or Fast position. Obviously, turning the star anticlockwise, moves the lever to the Slow position.

Hope this helps! :thumbsup:


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

If you write off to IWC with the serial no. of the movement they can tell you who they sold it to, it might be someone famous!!! 

With regard to watch timing, especially on pocket watches, the watch and balance have got to be in A1 condition first, otherwise your compunding errors......... also a good watch timer with acoustic pick up is needed, using a quartz wall clock is not the way to go sadly..........


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

A point I forgot to mention about the star micro regulator, is that it is just that.....the star moves the lever in a very precise and controlled way, so that accurate timing is possible. It also holds it in position and stops it moving. It's certainly more effective than the normal method of just pushing the lever over a bit and hoping for the best. Other manufacturers made similar micro adjusters that performed the same function. This Elgin uses a screw that moves on a curved thread to move the lever back and forth. You can see the screw cupping the end of the lever and the curved bar it travels along.


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

Hi fellahs,

Rodger, thanks for the explanation re. the star regulator. I suspected that was how it worked, I just wanted to be sure.

Harry, is it actually possible to say...email...IWC Schaffhausen with the serial numbers to get information? I mostly want to know the *AGE* of the watch. All I know is that it's roughly around 1890-1896, according to hearsay and questionable internet resources. And I will only be tinkering with the regulator once the watch has been serviced, so don't worry. I know my watchmaker regulates it himself, but I'm never satisfied with it, so I tend to do it myself. I get it much more accurate.

Rodger, I have an Elgin from 1918 with the same 'cog' regulator that you have. It is indeed, very very easy to make the watch VERY accurate with that thing. I took the watch on a trip across something like four time zones...and it lost only one minute in two weeks.


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

Well, I have saved up the necessary funds and I'm off to the watchmaker tomorrow to hand in one of my watches for servicing. The problem is, I'm still struggling to decide which one I should service first! I think I'll do the Waltham, simply because I reckon it needs more attention.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Good luck, Shangas....let us know which one makes it, and don't forget the pics when you get it back! :thumbsup:


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## LozR (Jan 12, 2011)

Really nice watches and an informative thread, I'm in London in March for a few days so will have to browse a few flea markets myself!


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

I sent the Waltham off to the watchmaker's. It seemed like it needed the most work.


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## AlanJohn (Mar 17, 2011)

Shangas said:


> Hahaha!! Nein, mein herr.
> 
> I already have two hats. (Okay, four. Two cheap ones, two felt ones. All four = Trilbies). I don't need more! (Okay, maybe just a few more...).
> 
> ...


I heartily approve of your mode of dress Shangas. I have around 10 hats, I haven't counted them lately  All trilbies, fedoras or panamas.


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

Thanks, Alan. It's always been a habit of mine for years (ever since I was a kid) to wear a vest of some kind to keep me warm. I started wearing waistcoats regularly last year. I've got about half a dozen. Two black, one brown, two grey and one blue.

Still have the IWC. Needs to be serviced...


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## AlanJohn (Mar 17, 2011)

Shangas said:


> Thanks, Alan. It's always been a habit of mine for years (ever since I was a kid) to wear a vest of some kind to keep me warm. I started wearing waistcoats regularly last year. I've got about half a dozen. Two black, one brown, two grey and one blue.
> 
> Still have the IWC. Needs to be serviced...


I have two coat hangers full of waistcoats too. And most of them have a chain hanging on them. ULnfortulnatly, none of them are gold. All silver. Just wait untill I win the lottery :smartass:


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

My chains are gold-filled (which costs a fraction of solid) or brass (which costs nothing at all). SOLID GOLD CHAINS cost an absolute bloody fortune. I'd never be able to afford one. The chain you see in that picture is gold-filled.


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