# Grandmother Left Me A Watch



## Mini E (Jul 17, 2011)

Hey guys,

I'm a complete randomer who knows nothing about watches... My nan sadly passed away last year and among the thing she left me was a watch. I'm just really interested to find out as much about it as I can... Unfortunately I can't open the back of it - it's really stiff and I'm terrified of breaking it trying to open it up.

It has the imprint "Waltham 14k US Assay" inside it... And it's a Waltham watch. I'm just wondering if you guys know anything about this as your website came up on google!! Any information about it at all would be so hugely appreciated. It's got massive sentimental value to me for obvious reasons but she never actually told me anything about the watch itself.

Took a few pictures in case they help:




























Thanks guys!

EDIT: Oh and even though the hands aren't moving as obviously the battery is dead... the mechanism is still in working order. Can hear it ticking after twisting the top part of the watch. (As you can see, I literally know nothing)


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## EddyW (Feb 13, 2010)

Hello.

Sorry I am no expert but even from what you have said I can tell you that there is

definitely NO BATTERY to be associated with that watch.

It is mechanical, If you turn the crown that winds a spring and in turn powers the watch,

Turn until you feel resistance and if the second hand will not move give it a GENTLE shake (twist your wrist)

and if the movement in the watch is OK that should do the trick.

To set the time press down on the crown(winder) and turn, The hands should move so you can set it.

I hope the explanation is clear enough.

Good luck.


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## Mini E (Jul 17, 2011)

EddyW said:


> Hello.
> 
> Sorry I am no expert but even from what you have said I can tell you that there is
> 
> ...


I have no idea why I said battery! of course it doesn't have one. I'm not as interested in getting it working to tell the time as I am actually finding information about the watch to be honest! Thankyou for your reply!


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## EddyW (Feb 13, 2010)

Mini E said:


> EddyW said:
> 
> 
> > Hello.
> ...


Hi.

Try http://www.waltham.ch/index.php?main=Waltham_Memorial&sec=glossary


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## a6cjn (Oct 29, 2009)

Welcome to the forum Mini E, it's a nice friendly place

You have a lovely watch and have taken some superb pics and the stamp would suggest that it has a solid 14ct gold case which means it has monetary value

As to more information you need to identify the serial number on the movement and enter it here

You should be able to open the back of the case with a finger nail and that will probably reveal a dust cover which is usually very bright and shiny and also stamped

If you look very carefully, use a glass or loupe, around the edge you will see where the edge of a thin bladed knife is to be inserted to flip the cover open to reveal the movement and serial number

Hope that helps and if you manage to expose the movement, please post some nmore pics

Chris


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

All good advice so far, but just a note - remember gold is a relatively soft metal, if you can't find the spot where the case blade should go into to open the back, instead, try to find a "real" watchmaker to open it for you :yes:

You need a smaller independent watch guy, *not* the guy who changes batteries and fixes shoes in the local shopping Mall, any good watchie will open a case for you and write down the serial number for you to research the age of the watch, if there is a charge it would be nominal, and worth paying to avoid damaging the watch, it's a nice one! :yes:

:weed: ldman:


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Hi, Mini E and :welcome: Your lovely piece is a full Hunter cased watch. As you have found, you push down on the crown to flip the front open...when you close it, press the crown again, don't snap it shut as this wears the latching slot in the cover. To set the hands, gently pull the crown out till it clicks, then adjust to the correct time, and push the crown back in. If you hold the watch with the front cover facing to the right, you may see a slight depression, or even a lip on the back cover just under the crown stem. You should be able to put your thumbnail (or a blunt blade) in this slot and open the back. There should be a similar slot on the inner dust cover (curvette) as well. Once open, look for a serial number stamped on the edge of the movement, and refer to Chris's thread above for the link to date it. Here's a pic of my Waltham showing the serial number on the right.










BTW...if you look at the serial number in my pic, you will see some scratching on the case above it...this is where the finger slot is and those scratches are from 103 years of being opened! This particular Waltham dates to 1908.

Hope this helps...


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## Mini E (Jul 17, 2011)

Hey guys I got in the back! Entered the serial number which is on the mechanism itself on that website (Thankyou!) and :

First:	10942001 Last:	10944000

Model:	1899	Name:

Material:	U	Grade:	Traveler,

Size:	16	Size:	16

Plate:	3/4	Plate:

Jewelling: Jewels:	7

Balance: Bal:	Breguet Spring

Style:	HC

Style:

Htg.

Comment:	51

But there's an inscription on a 2nd case part which has "Warranted 14 US Assay" again with a different serial number which comes up with:

Start:	12/1/1895	End:	10/31/1896

First:	6167001 Last:	6168000

Model:	1888	Name:	Roy

Material:	A	Grade:	Royal, NL

Size:	16	Size:	16

Plate:	/PS	Plate:	NL

Jewelling:	17	Jewels:	17

Balance:	Ex/Breg/Adj	Bal:	Pat. Reg. - Breg. HS

Style:	HC

Style:

Htg

Comment:	nickel Htg

Source:	BR

Date:

12/12/2002

I don't know what most of this means to be honest...! The date is self explanatory but the rest confuses me!

There is an inscription as well that you can't quite make out on the photo:

"Presented to W.T Murray by members of Rawdon Island School and other friends as a token of esteem and in appreciate of valuable services during 8 years. Jan 1905"

This is kinda exciting detective work!? Thanks a lot for all your replies so far!

EDIT: Forgot the images


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## chris l (Aug 5, 2005)

Rawdon Island School is/was in New South Wales.

Try Googling it for more information...


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## a6cjn (Oct 29, 2009)

Thank you for posting the extra pics

The discovery of the inscription is a real bonus, it was once a widely held belief that such inscriptions devalued a piece but now, with the internet,it's possible to become an armchair detective and trace the watch's history. It's certainly worth trying as not only does it add considerable value but it is fascinating to trace the history of a piece.

Your watch would seem a good example, Rawdon Island School is indeed in Australia and the area was originally established as a penal colony (good starting point for research here )

It would seem that they are celebrating their heritage and there is a considerable amount of info' available, the 'Old School' is now a Heritage Centre

Good luck with your sleuthing and please let us know what you find out

Cbris


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

You've done well with your research, that's for sure. The serial number on the watch movement (the inside workings) will date the watch's actual year of manufacture, but it was not unknown for a maker such as Waltham to place the same innards into more than one type of case. :yes:

So the same movement may show up in a Gold Case such as yours, a filled, rolled or plated gold or a plain Jane base metal "silvered in some way" case. You do have the advantage that the inscription dates the watch very definitely, it's unusual for a watch to be engraved AFTER the date of the engraving if for a presentation. Waltham may have ordered in Gold 14K cases in a fairly bulk order prior to 1905, and still be using them after 1905 if they had a few in stock. :lol:

AS Sherlock Holmes would have said - "The Game's Afoot" - you have a watch, a year, a name, a place - go for it, and let us know what you find out! Fun and fascinating all at the same time. BTW, with a service and re-lube from a good watch maker, this will be good for another 100 years, no problem, it looks clean and tidy and hasn't been mucked about with!

:toot: You've another wee clue - if he was at the School for 8 years - it's likely he was a member of staff, teacher or Headmaster, taht may help research the name, google on "headmaster" at the school and date midway , call it 1900!

:weed: ldman:


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## brains (Apr 29, 2011)

oh my, look what I found...W.P though......

*Mr. William P. Murray, Public school teachei at Macksville, was on Friday night tai recipient of a handsomo gold watch from IkÂ« members of tho Rawdon Island School of Arti as a token of esteem and appreciation for oil services during the past eight years.*

The bad spelling is not me. Go look at http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14674069?searchTerm=%22rawdon%20island%20school%22&searchLimits=

YOU HAVE THIS WATCH!!!!!! Now you know his first name too so get searching for more!!!


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## Mini E (Jul 17, 2011)

I forgot to say that Murray was my grandmothers surname before she married, so this may have been my great grandfathers, I'll have to do some research! Thanks for all the help so far. I would never sell it as it's far too sentimental but does anyone know an approximate price on it - if I keep hold of it for another few years I might well get it insured as it's one of the nicest things I now own!

Thanks guys - you're excellent!


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## a6cjn (Oct 29, 2009)

well done brains, that's a good find

I've enlarged the pic of the engraving and it does look like the letter 'P'

Obvious question Mini E, are you in Australia?

As to value of the watch, assuming that it is a solid 14K gold case, I would suggest a value of Â£500+ but for insurance purposes, this figure is usually more than doubled

Chris


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## Mini E (Jul 17, 2011)

Wow... definitely worth getting insured.

I'm in the UK but am 25% Aussie... and my Grandmother who passed away lived in Aus for the first 40ish years of her life.. and her parents etc were all Australian from then backwards. I've found out that the man who was presented with the watch is my Great, Great Grandfather. That newspaper article find is fantastic!


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Great story coming together MinniE :yes:

See, this forum is better than a Genealogy one - Oh Yes! :to_become_senile:


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## EddyW (Feb 13, 2010)

Mini E said:


> Wow... definitely worth getting insured.
> 
> I'm in the UK but am 25% Aussie... and my Grandmother who passed away lived in Aus for the first 40ish years of her life.. and her parents etc were all Australian from then backwards. I've found out that the man who was presented with the watch is my Great, Great Grandfather. That newspaper article find is fantastic!


Hi

Sorry about my "push to set input":blush2: I bow to superior knowledge.:notworthy: However this is turning out to be a great story.

Please keep digging out the secrets it is fascinating what turns up from time to time.

You are wise to keep and treasure your heirloom and maybe hand it down to your kids someday.

As for value, Shameful though it is, The main value is in the gold rather than the craftsmanship of the movement (sacrilege) but not to be ignored.

Your best bet is to look on tbay and watch out for something very similar to guesstimate the worth.

I am sure you realize it is worth more to you in its family connections than anyone else is prepared to pay.

Great story so far

Good luck.


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## brains (Apr 29, 2011)

Mini E, your Great Great Grandfather was a public school teacher (as I'm sure you know)and there are a few newspaper articles mentioning his name. There are a few death notices for the death of spouses for the same name too. Did he live in Ballarat at any stage? If you wanted to share his wife's name and any dates of birth I'd luv to hunt around (on google!!!) a bit more for you but that's up to you, I don't want to stick my nose too far into your business!

I reckon you should get a copy somehow of that newspaper article and put a little box or display together, maybe you can just print it out.


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## Mini E (Jul 17, 2011)

If you fancy it, I'd be more than happy to pass on that info - I don't know myself details of him to be honest, I'd have to ask my Mother who's currently away for a few days, then I'll get back to you! Thanks for all the help so far - I'm finding this really interesting.


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## a6cjn (Oct 29, 2009)

I think creating a journal or diplay of the watch and the family history would be the way to go.

That part of Oz, Rawdon Island/Hastings has a fascinating history as it was originally established as a penal colony and the initial info' on the population I found is

1836: 1,300 (convicts 936)

1841: 1,053 (transportation ceased in 1840)

1881: 773

1901: 1,160

1921: 1,563 (Census)

1947: 2,907 (Census)

1968: 7,500 (Sesqui-centenary figure)

1981: 19,572 (Census)

2001: 38,289 (Census - 64,412 Hastings total)

2006: 40,052 (Census - 68,430 Hastings total)

So at the date of the presentation, there was only 1200 or so in the area which should make tracking folk down a bit easier, particularly as the Murray family seemed to be an important one.

The wife is the genealogy expert and she reckons you should be able to establish family history details fairly easily

All this from a pocket watch eh? 

Chris


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

Hi Mini.

Reading this thread has been fascinating to me. Congratulations on the watch and finding out so much about it.

I admit it. The bit about the battery gave me a good chuckle.

It's a decent-quality watch which should keep decent time.

Before you go off on a wild goose-chase (and as I don't think anyone else mentioned this in their posts...If yes, then disregard following), I thought I'd bring your attention to this:

*But there's an inscription on a 2nd case part which has "Warranted 14 US Assay" again with a different serial number*

Case numbers have no relevance to finding out anything about a pocketwatch. Prior to about the 1920s (in some cases, as late as the 1940s), pocketwatches were sold in pieces. You bought the movement. Then you bought the case. Then the watchmaker put the two pieces together to give you a cased watch. Because of this, the case doesn't tell you anything about the watch inside it. It was picked by the buyer and has no relation to the company that made the movement that it houses.


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