# Early 19Th Century Pocket Watch



## Dave Crew (Dec 20, 2011)

Greetings -

My first post, although I've been watching and reading for some time. We have a watch that has been in the family since purchased in a London pawn shop in 1832. It doesn't work, but it is in stunning condition and is beautifully ornate with a gold case and movement. The crystal is like new and the movement shows no corrosion or decay of any kind.

We are mostly interested in knowing whether this watch is made by a well-known watchmaker and/or whether it has collector status. The movement contains script that says "Ellivnetta" or something like that, with a serial number of 335. As soon as I can figure out how to post photos I will add them to this topic.

Thank you for looking, and I'm hoping that I'm fortunate enough to get some assistance from one of the very knowledgeable collectors in this forum.

Thank you for reading.

Dave


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## Dave Crew (Dec 20, 2011)

This photo thing is hard, but hoping I got it -


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## Will Fly (Apr 10, 2012)

I think this is quite a valuable and rare watch, and it may well be worth spending some money on getting it working. There is certainly at least one of these in the British Museum - purchased from Christie's, I believe - and you might want to contact the Museum for more information.


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## Will Fly (Apr 10, 2012)

A trawl through the British Museum's watch index does indeed produce some info about an "Ellivnetta" watch in their collection - with a suggestion that it's a reverse spelling of a maker called Attenville. Interesting...


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## bowie (Mar 12, 2005)

Will Fly said:


> I think this is quite a valuable and rare watch, and it may well be worth spending some money on getting it working. There is certainly at least one of these in the British Museum - purchased from Christie's, I believe - and you might want to contact the Museum for more information.


A Dell boy moment how much is it worth then will


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## Will Fly (Apr 10, 2012)

I really couldn't say. Gold alone puts the price up, quite apart from the age and the rarity of the maker - and, given the period, the gold may well be something like 20 or 22ct. Do my eyes mistake me, or is that a ring of pearls around the bezel, set in the gold - or has the bezel been fashioned to look like pearls? The lighting isn't clear.

And, as forum rules say quite clearly, we aren't qualified to give valuations...


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## Dave Crew (Dec 20, 2011)

Thank you kindly for your responses. Yes, they are pearls, with three missing on the back but otherwise in excellent condition.

I respect your comment on providing valuations - my questions are really to get some leads to figuring out what this is. You've helped a great deal, as I sent an email to the British Museum this morning and hope to hear back soon.

Cheers,

Dave


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## Dave Crew (Dec 20, 2011)

Will,

Thank you for guiding me to the horolgical department at the British Museum. I was able to reach the curator of their collection, Laura Turner, and below is the reponse she provided. If any of this information leads anyone else to think of resources or ideas on researching this watch, I would be very interested. Thank you again.

We do indeed have a watch by â€˜Ellivnettaâ€™. Having just looked at it I believe it is likely to be by the same maker as your watch, since the movements very similar and the signatures identical.

I have not been able to locate any information on a watchmaker by the name of â€˜Ellivnettaâ€™.

However it was sometimes the case the French or Swiss makers would sign their names backwards on their watches, perhaps to make them less obviously continental and more attractive to the English market. The reverse of â€˜Ellivnettaâ€™ is â€˜Attenvilleâ€™.

I have found two references to a watchmaker by this name:

1. In â€˜Dictionnaire des Horlogers Genevoisâ€™ by O Patrizzi, 1998,

â€˜Attenville, Jacques-Louis-LÃ©onard, (1820-1911). Horloger, puis agriculteur. Adjoint au maire du Grand-Saconnex (Geneve) de 1866-1910â€™.

Watchmaker, then farmer. Deputy Mayor of grand-Saconnex (Geneva) from 1866-1910

2. In â€˜Watchmakers and Clockmakers of the World: Complete 21st Century Editionâ€™, B Loomes, NAG Press, 2006

Attenville, James. London early 19th Century.

It is possible that one of these is our maker, the second being a better match date-wise.

From the style of your watch I would date it to around the late 18th or early 19th century. The museumâ€™s watch has a virgule escapement (â€"invented in 1753), and though it is hard to be certain from only seeing a photograph, it looks like your watch does too. By 1775 there was a fashion, in France and Switzerland in particular, for thinner flatter watches such as this one. The dials generally reached right to the edge of the case, and were white enamel with Arabic numerals for the hours, and often no minute markers. The pendants were long, with flattish oval hoops on a wide hinge. Decorating the rim with pearls was more common in France and Geneva.

Dave


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## Will Fly (Apr 10, 2012)

Hi Dave - I'm glad you were able to find out some more about your lovely watch - hopefully the search for more info will continue!

Kind regards - and fascinating stuff!

Will


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## Dave Crew (Dec 20, 2011)

Greetings,

i am bumping this thread because after numerous emails to possible resources in Europe I have not found anyone able to provide clues about my watch. I'm hoping I can draw attention from a new audience with this posting, three years after first bringing this to you.

As stated in my original post:

We have a watch that has been in the family since purchased in a London pawn shop in 1832. It doesn't work, but it is in stunning condition and is beautifully ornate with a gold case and movement. The crystal is like new and the movement shows no corrosion or decay of any kind.

We are interested in knowing whether this watch is made by a well-known watchmaker, whether it has collector status, and anything else about its history. The movement contains script that says "Ellivnetta", with a serial number of 335. Photos appear above as posted earlier. Again, thank you in advance for sharing any knowledge that might help us understand the origins and details of this watch.

Cheers,

Dave


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

If you Google on "ellivnetta Watches" (currently 5th December 2017) you'll find one for sale from Australia with a serial number of 366, if this helps you at all. Fairly similar to yours.

I've found myself that all you can do is keep re-visiting cold cases every now and then - - :yes:


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

very good show! vin


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## Dave Crew (Dec 20, 2011)

Many thanks, Mel. I've reached out to the seller in hopes they can fill some of the information gap. As you suggest, I'll bump this down the road if I don't get anywhere.

Dave


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## Dave Crew (Dec 20, 2011)

Good morning, all. I am bumping this thread in hopes that someone new is viewing the forum that has knowledge that can help solve our mystery. Can anyone offer any information on this watch, or refer me to someone that could be a resource? Thank you for reading.

Cheers,

Dave


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## stdape (Mar 9, 2018)

In my book i have found a James Attenville early 19th Century London. No more info from there. Might be a Good idea to see if Censuses might help. Will Check and let you know. But please keep in Family its a Heirloom, just wish i had one left by an Ancestor

update: nothing on him in Censuses. Seems a Mystery! Wonder if Horological Institute may know


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Interesting that the British Museum says it's a French/Swiss-style watch, but the dates are a better match with the London-based James Attenville. I wondered if Jacques-Louis-Leonard Attenville was from a watchmaking family, but he's the only one listed in the directory.

http://fr.worldtempus.com/article/industrie-news/economie/dictionnaire-des-horlogers-de-adar-a-azur-15593.html

You could sign up for a genealogical website and see what comes up with Attenville and watch or clock makers. Without a subscription, I can see Jacques Attenville on Ancestry in England Births Deaths & Christenings, so just possible it's same one and he spent some time in England.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/?name=_Attenville&pg=2&name_x=_1


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## stdape (Mar 9, 2018)

There are some Attenvilles on Ancestry, but only one James who died 1715. The name does seem Foreign in Origin, and maybe James was related, or even changed to James from Jacques. As definitely James in Watchmakers & Clockmakers of the World.

I would say definitely collectable, as not a Common Watch. And maybe not many made

actually just checked Jacques is James in English, so think Spinynorman has something, which ties in perfectly.


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