# Breitling Navitimer Premier



## itsallaboutmark (Sep 13, 2008)

Hi chaps,

My first post on this forum so go easy on me, I have fallen in love with on of the forum members watch which I researched to find it is a Breitling Navitimer Premier.

Now the million dollar question, if possible, where can I find one of these and how much should I expect to pay?

To avoid confusion, and in case I got the name wrong, the watch in question is owned by Livius de Balzac:


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

I know how you feel....I covet that watch too....a real beauty....apparently out of production for a few years now.....maybe a scan of the usual auction sites and you might get lucky.........eventually!


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## itsallaboutmark (Sep 13, 2008)

Boxbrownie said:


> I know how you feel....I covet that watch too....a real beauty....apparently out of production for a few years now.....maybe a scan of the usual auction sites and you might get lucky.........eventually!


Apparently so, as far as I understand they were last produced in 1999. I'm in love.

I am keen to understand the exact model of the watch pictured above, was it a 1999 version? I'm pretty sure its not the Grand Premier made in 1999? I haven't been able to find one with such exact colouring on the dial so is this a replacement dial?

Also the strap, is it aftermarket or was it standard with the watch?

SOrry for so many questions but any help is much appreciated!


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## Livius de Balzac (Oct 6, 2006)

Hello!

The Breitling Premier is a real beauty!

Breitling made the Premier from 1997 to 1999 and it was inspired by the orginal Breitling Premier made in the late 30's. The case was made in steel or rosÃ© gold, with black or silver dial, with or without date, and with a strap or a Navitimer bracelet. 1997/98 model without date, 1999 model with date.

The Premier use the Breitling B40 or B42 movement (B42 with date) and are based on the Kelek calibre 10000 (an ETA 2892 ebauche with a Kelek developed chronograph module), but with 3 hours/10 minuttes chronograph registers.

It's not going to be easy to find a Premier today, it was made as a "Series Speciale" and Breitling only made about 5000.

I bought mine from a Breitling dealer in 2000 and have never seen another one. You have to search on the net and at used watch dealers, maybe you find one. I think you have to pay Â£1500 to Â£2000 for a nice one in steel. (a full service cost about Â£500)

The dial on mine are the orginal. The colour is a warm silver, something between silver grey and champagne with rosÃ© gold hands and soft yellow numerals, turning green under strong lighting or in the dark.

The Premier was a part of the Navitimer line and was called Breitling Premier, but on the back of the watch it says Breitling Navitimer Premier. Breitling also made the Grand Premier in 1999. Bigger case, big roman numerals and a Valjoux 7750 movement.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I love that watch.

Bad news for itsallaboutmark is that I have only seen one come up for sale in the last 5 years, and yes I missed it!


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## michaelh (Oct 1, 2007)

I also have noticed this watch recently. A real nice looking piece. Good luck in finding one.


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## Stanford (Feb 10, 2007)

JoT said:


> I love that watch.
> 
> Bad news for itsallaboutmark is that I have only seen one come up for sale in the last 5 years, and yes I missed it!


I've seen a black dialled one for sale, perhaps not quite as nice but still a great looker ...


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## hikingcamping (Apr 27, 2008)

That is the best looking :wub: Breitling and I have been searching for one for the past few months but to no avail....


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## itsallaboutmark (Sep 13, 2008)

Thank you deBalzac and everyone else for your replys that clarifies a few of my questions.

Typical that the one watch I really like is a rare watch that they only made 5000 of!

Okay now I have found a few, I think some may be fake can anyone clarify:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...rksid=p3907.m29

For the bottom two, if they are authentic how hard would it be to change the strap for a Navitimer bracelet and how much would it cost?

I'm hoping all these watches wont all of a sudden vanish after me posting........


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## Livius de Balzac (Oct 6, 2006)

Hello!

All three watches look genuine, but only the one with black dial has box and papers.

A new 20 mm Navitimer bracelet cost about Â£1000 from Breitling.


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## itsallaboutmark (Sep 13, 2008)

Thanks Livius,

I understand I am ble to post ebay links here (sorry for posting vendors links previously).

Can anyone give me their opinion on this watch:

From what I can tell the seller is genuine?

Is it worth the price?

I plan to chnage the strap to the Navitimer bracelet.

Thanks chaps!


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## Robert (Jul 26, 2006)

Any idea if Breitling could replace the dial? Wonder what caused the discoloration


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## Toshi (Aug 31, 2007)

One more thing to consider. If you are buying from a source outside the EU (and I'm assuming you are in the UK?) there is a possibility you will have to pay VAT on the watch when it comes through customs. Certainly that would be the case with the last one (the silver dial) as it's being shipped with UPS. You may have thought about this already, but if not it can be a shock when you get the call / letter from the carrier. 

I've just done a quick internet search and found a black dialed Premier with arabic numerals for just under Â£1200 - in Germany, so no VAT.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Are you sure VAT payable on second hand goods ???? I used to ship a lot of stuff, mainly used machine tooling into the UK from our other non EU places at work and don't remember paying VAT as it was used. It was all above board as our accounts wouldn't have it any other way, the stuff would just be delivered on site by whatever courier they used.

B. ,


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## Mutley (Apr 17, 2007)

Toshi is right, VAT & import duty is due on second hand goods imported from outside the EU :cry2:


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## Robert (Jul 26, 2006)

BondandBigM said:


> Are you sure VAT payable on second hand goods ????


Absolutely


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## Toshi (Aug 31, 2007)

BondandBigM said:


> Are you sure VAT payable on second hand goods ???? I used to ship a lot of stuff, mainly used machine tooling into the UK from our other non EU places at work and don't remember paying VAT as it was used. It was all above board as our accounts wouldn't have it any other way, the stuff would just be delivered on site by whatever courier they used.
> 
> B. ,


Unfortunately I am sure  . If it's coming into the EU there will be VAT & duty payable, and if the seller is using one of the big couriers (UPS, Fedex etc) I guarentee they will charge you (they have teams who are employed simply to calculate the charges due on imports from outside the EU). There is a chance it would slip through, but it's always best to calculate the cost with this incluyded - that way if it does slip through it's a bonus


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## Mutley (Apr 17, 2007)

HMRC guidance for internet buying

Note HMRC don't make any distinction between new & second hand, to them it's just "goods"


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Mmmmmmm interesting,

Then maybe our accounts weren't as straight up as I thought as I never had anybody ask for money on delivery and we used all the bigger names, DHL, UPS and so on.

B.


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## Rotundus (May 7, 2012)

i have only got time to speed read and go but 2 things come to mind.

1 if the vat and duty are so bad then have a weekend break and go get the watch in person.

2 the premier is the first breitling i have seen that doesn't make me want to up chuck - yeah each to his own blah blah - but this one actually looks ok.

are there anymore out there like this? (cant believe i am asking this!)

I am so not a chrono person - the cheapie i have will remain unflipped as 'tis a birthday pressie from the 710.

live long and prosper!

des


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## Toshi (Aug 31, 2007)

potz said:


> Toshi said:
> 
> 
> > One more thing to consider. If you are buying from a source outside the EU (and I'm assuming you are in the UK?) there is a possibility you will have to pay VAT on the watch when it comes through customs. Certainly that would be the case with the last one (the silver dial) as it's being shipped with UPS. You may have thought about this already, but if not it can be a shock when you get the call / letter from the carrier.
> ...


That's the one Chris


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## itsallaboutmark (Sep 13, 2008)

Thank you all for your help!

Toshi & Potz, is there any chance you could send me the links to the two watches you are talking about to itsallaboutmarkAThotmailDOTcom

Sorry my google skills must have run away from me as I cant find them.

Thanks again for all teh offers of help


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## Toshi (Aug 31, 2007)

itsallaboutmark said:


> Thank you all for your help!
> 
> Toshi & Potz, is there any chance you could send me the links to the two watches you are talking about to itsallaboutmarkAThotmailDOTcom
> 
> ...


email sent


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## Stuart Davies (Jan 13, 2008)

Without doubt one of the most beautiful modern Chrono's made and in my all time top 10. The only Breiltling that floats my boat - no where near as beautiful in black sorry.


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## itsallaboutmark (Sep 13, 2008)

Thank you both Chris & Rich for your emails.

I'm now unsure which face to go for, I really like deBalzac's watch in white with the bracelet (see pictures on first page).

Has anyone seen a picture of the black dial with a bracelet?


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## itsallaboutmark (Sep 13, 2008)

Stuart Davies said:


> Without doubt one of the most beautiful modern Chrono's made and in my all time top 10. The only Breiltling that floats my boat - no where near as beautiful in black sorry.


I think I agree with you Stuart the silver dial seems to add a certain something to the watch, however the white is Â£1000 more expensive, typical!


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## Agent orange (Feb 11, 2006)

Just to agree with a lot that's already been said. In general post 80's Breitlings do absolutely nothing for me but this example, well that's a totally different story :wub:.

Cheers,

Gary


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## Livius de Balzac (Oct 6, 2006)

Premier with black dial:










(picture "stolen" from the net)

The Premier is a small watch by modern standards, only 37 mm, but it looks and feel bigger with a silver dial. I think the version with date look a bit unbalanced, and I prefer the silver dial.

The discolouration you can see on the dial on some of the photos is probably some "optical" effects caused by the coating on the crystal, the dial on mine is just like new.

You can change from black to silver dial, but it will cost you about Â£100, a new 20 mm Navitimer bracelet cost about Â£1000 and a full service about Â£500.


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## Stuart Davies (Jan 13, 2008)

Livius de Balzac said:


> You can change from black to silver dial, but it will cost you about Â£100


Livius - If you change the dial then you'd most probably want to change the hand-set to the gold ones too - any idea of cost's?

Cheers S


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## Livius de Balzac (Oct 6, 2006)

Stuart Davies said:


> Livius de Balzac said:
> 
> 
> > You can change from black to silver dial, but it will cost you about Â£100
> ...


Forgot about the hands, a new set of hands, about the same as the dial, Â£100.


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## itsallaboutmark (Sep 13, 2008)

Livius,

Does your watch have EMS engraved on the back?

The seller explains that the black face doesn't and that is why the silver face is more expensive.


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

Livius de Balzac said:


> Premier with black dial:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm I think the silver dial is the one ot go for.....the black dial looks too much like this










One of my favorite unassuming chronos!


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## Vincero (Jul 8, 2008)

Nothing wrong with looking like that!!!


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## adrian (May 23, 2004)

I saw one going 2 weeks ago for 2000$ on a reputable US website.


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

Vincero said:


> Nothing wrong with looking like that!!!


No indeed ther isn't....what I meant was that I would "have" to go for the silver faced version as I wouldn't want it clashing with my lovely little Dynamic Chrono.....or at leats thats what I will tell the 710 :lol:


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

Theres a lovely 18kt Premier on epray at the moment.....only Â£5000 :blink: ..it is nice though.......


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## itsallaboutmark (Sep 13, 2008)

Okay chaps, I think I am close to buying this watch, can you tell me your opinions of the belwo pictures. The watch is selling for Â£1,169.90....

Do you think it is authentic?

Do you believe I can polish out the scratches?


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## itsallaboutmark (Sep 13, 2008)

More pictures:


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## Stuart Davies (Jan 13, 2008)

Wow stunning - sounds like a very good price too. Is it through an AD? And will you get any warrenty on it?


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## itsallaboutmark (Sep 13, 2008)

Stuart Davies said:


> Wow stunning - sounds like a very good price too. Is it through an AD? And will you get any warrenty on it?


No it is not through an AD - Authorised Dealer? So I would not get a warranty with it. And it comes with instruction manuel but no box.


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## ANDI (Mar 14, 2006)

My 1998 Breitling Chronologue catalog shows a white faced model like this with buffalo strap price then was Â£1525 . The same watch with black face and steel navitimer bracelet was Â£2065 . The movement is a special miniaturised 38jewel caliber 42. I think this watch you are looking at is a bargain but bear in mind that this movement can only be repaired and sericed by Breitling;they dont supply parts or spares to anyone else. The cost of servicing a Breitling chronograph is very very expensive!


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## Livius de Balzac (Oct 6, 2006)

Hello again!

The watch looks to be genuine!

I think it will need a full service, a scratchy bezel and a dirty hour subdial, scratches on case and bracelet, but most of the scratches will disappear when the watch is polished. A full service at Breitling cost Â£500.

I don't like the date squeezed in between 4 and 5, think the Premier is nicer and more classic without the date.


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## itsallaboutmark (Sep 13, 2008)

Livius de Balzac said:


> Hello again!
> 
> The watch looks to be genuine!
> 
> ...


Hey Livius,

Great knowing to a certain extent its genuine is a good start.

So does a full service include polishing the watch?

I agree with you the date does not compliment the watch, but beggars can't be choosers.


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## Livius de Balzac (Oct 6, 2006)

Yes, a full service includes polishing the case and bracelet. Breitling does a very nice job!

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?s...c=32340&hl=


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## itsallaboutmark (Sep 13, 2008)

Livius de Balzac said:


> Yes, a full service includes polishing the case and bracelet. Breitling does a very nice job!
> 
> http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?s...c=32340&hl=


Looks great Livius,

What is the best way to get it serviced? Do you take it to your local authorised dealer?

How long was the turn around?


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## Livius de Balzac (Oct 6, 2006)

itsallaboutmark said:


> Livius de Balzac said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, a full service includes polishing the case and bracelet. Breitling does a very nice job!
> ...


I took the watch to my Breitling dealer, who sent it to the nearest authorised Breitling service senter. The service took about two months.


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