# Vintage Pioneer Watch



## Jakku (Dec 16, 2017)

Hi all!

Got this piece recently and want to get to know it a bit better. I've read from a couple sources online that the brand Pioneer was made by Rolex for the Canadian market - is there any truth to this? I assume this is just companies cashing in on the "Rolex style" branded movement and unbranded dial/case back and the loose relation to the Pioneer Rolex model to get more money out of people?

Any further info on time period or such would be great!

Case measures 31mm inc. crown, 15mm strap with and 36mm lug to lug.


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

A number of watchmakers used Pioneer as a brand. Rolex used it as a sub-brand of Oyster watches sold in Canada, but the example you can see here doesn't look much like your watch, outside or inside.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vintagerolexforum/fs-oyster-pioneer-circa-1940-500-euro-t45350.html

This is a Pioneer with the same movement, but doesn't tell us who made the watch.

https://www.loveantiques.com/vintage-watches/mens-watches/1950s-mid-size-pioneer-wrist-watch-65948

Pioneer was registered as a trademark in Switzerland by Gunzinger Frères, Manufacture d'Horlogerie Technos in 1938 and was still current in 1978. It could be one of theirs, but it's hard to tell.


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

this is why i don't like vintage rolex. the number of dealer who tell you its a "sub group" of rolex are VAST ! was that the original watch scam? it's common now. vin


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

vinn said:


> this is why i don't like vintage rolex. the number of dealer who tell you its a "sub group" of rolex are VAST ! was that the original watch scam? it's common now. vin


 I wasn't thinking very critically last night, shouldn't start looking things up at 2 in the morning. Was The Oyster Watch Co anything to do with Rolex really?

I like the loveantiques advert, fhf 70 as used by Breitling.


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

spinynorman said:


> I wasn't thinking very critically last night, shouldn't start looking things up at 2 in the morning. Was The Oyster Watch Co anything to do with Rolex really?
> 
> I like the loveantiques advert, fhf 70 as used by Breitling.


 keep up the good search in case you have to burn the books to keep warm. vin


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## Jakku (Dec 16, 2017)

Sorry for the lack of response - busy Christmas and then I just forgot.

Ended up selling it on for a small profit - I've since been making a bit of a habit of buying and selling!


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## flavien (Jun 2, 2020)

hello everyone, i just bought a pioneer watch from the 30s, from england. she is a pioneer sportsmans. my watchmaker really loved it because it has pretty cool features for the time. The case is silver, it has a double font, it has a shock resist system and it really liked the caliber. Not knowing this brand and not finding much on the net, I wanted to know if anyone of you can teach me more.


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

Hi

The movement (Swiss) was cased by A L Dennison in Birmingham during 1939. This was common practice at the time to avoid punitive import charges on precious metals.

The Pioneer branding was attributed to several manufacturers/retailers, in the USA & Switzerland.

I hazard a guess that your timepiece, movement dial & hands, has it's origin in Switzerland ?

Well worth a brush & scrub up, IMO.

Hope this helps.

:thumbsup:


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## Balaton1109 (Jul 5, 2015)

............well the movement is reminiscent of an AS, perhaps something like an AS 603 from the mid-'30s but with a slightly different shape of bridge. Would need to see an image of the keyless works to confirm, but meanwhile see attached image of the 603 for comparison purposes.

Regards.


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## Jet Jetski (Feb 10, 2019)

vinn said:


> this is why i don't like vintage rolex. the number of dealer who tell you its a "sub group" of rolex are VAST ! was that the original watch scam? it's common now. vin





spinynorman said:


> I wasn't thinking very critically last night, shouldn't start looking things up at 2 in the morning. Was The Oyster Watch Co anything to do with Rolex really?
> 
> I like the loveantiques advert, fhf 70 as used by Breitling.


 a good article about the fore-runners to Tudor (Tudor was originally mainly for the Australian market I believe) here:

https://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/blogrolexbrands.php


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## flavien (Jun 2, 2020)

thank you karrusel for it's additional information, to tell the truth i don't know if the military bracelet is original. the steel of the buckle seems to be in a fairly old and basic metal and if it is indeed a SPORT watch, it is possible that it is original. One that is very comfortable to wear and prevents perspiration in addition to being very robust and water resistant ...

I cleaned it a little but, I realized that the dial being painted, some figures are a little brightened, slightly. So I decided not to insist too much and leave the remaining patina.

balaton 1109, indeed the movement looks like the one you found. But with its shock shock resistant system. What makes this one interesting especially that it was the very beginning of the incabloc type systems.

And the double font, indicates that it should surely be a watch rather than high-end for the time, added to the shock resist. it is really not common in 1930.

Jet jetski, I'm going to go see what you have put together most ready, I took a look and the movement looks like that of the marconi indeed.

Do you really think that this caliber was used for Rolex watches from the 1930s?

thank you for all your research ^^


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