# 4x4's



## raketakat (Sep 24, 2003)

I saw a news report that the gov. is thinking about increasing the road tax on these vehicles.

I'm all for it. They are fuel guzzling, destructive, dangerous ( to other vehicles and pedestrians ), obscenities frequently driven by nervous or macho types.

I just feel sorry for people who REALLY need to use them.

Right - I'm off to Bolivia







.


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## Paul (Mar 2, 2003)

Hi all,

Usually keep out of anything goes, can get too personal, however. All vehicles for non-business use should be taxed to a formula that takes in volume, footprint, engine size and emissions

Thanks

Paul D


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Land Rover canvas top lightweights are great fun, and incredible off roaders.

I'm inclined however, to agree with the above!

There are far too many "Top Hat and Tails Off Roaders", where rather rich trendy types drive often huge American/Japanese type off roaders with man killing bull bars on the front, that NEVER get off road, hence the terminology. I f'king hate these type of drivers...............sorry!!!

Great for the outback, middle east, parts of the States, India, Africa, etc etc., but over here, just a stinking example of posing with attitude.

Stick more tax on this lot, and knock some more tax off smaller cars


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

A lot of the 4x4 vehicles round here have blacked-out windows, huge shiny "drug dealer" alloy wheels and lowered suspension. They have to slow right down and gingerly crawl over all the speed bumps so as not to end up grounding







I say crush 'em all, preferably with the occupants still inside









I've got nothing against proper 4x4's that are used to do a genuine job or for recreational off-road use. I was thinking about getting an old Land Rover Defender for that very reason, or maybe even a Lada Niva









I'm not sure it's right to increase the road tax on any of these vehicles though. It's already expensive enough and none of it ever seems to get re-invested in the roads anyway.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Those Lada Nivas, and especially the Cossacks, are damn good vehicles, with the last 1600 engine proving to be as tough as they come. Think it was Nottingham police that were highly impressed with them, and were very near to buying a fleet of them!?


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## Roger (May 17, 2003)

The tax on 4 wheeled vehicles, as is, should be for 2 driven wheels, if the vehicle has 4 driven ( or the ability to be driven) then the tax should be doubled.

Unless there is a proven need forall wheel drive, these things must be one of the most pointless forms af transport.

Should this also apply to Subaru estates (4 wheel drive) as well as SUV's?

Roger


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Roger said:



> The tax on 4 wheeled vehicles, as is, should be for 2 driven wheels, if the vehicle has 4 driven ( or the ability to be driven) then the tax should be doubled.


Bicylces have a single driven wheel so they should pay around Â£80 then







(what do motorcyclists pay, out of interest??)

"All-wheel" drive has proven safety benefits, particularly in wet/snowy conditions. I don't think you can justifiably apply different levels of road tax based upon how many driven wheels your vehicle happens to have.

The Subaru Justy (a small hatchback) had 4-wheel drive I think. Can't see owners of that being terribly impressed with the double road tax idea!

4x4's aren't pointless forms of transport, it's just unfortunate that they're now often employed for the wrong reasons, like the "scool run" for instance.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

scrap road tax altogether and put in a system that taxes you on the miles you drive (ie on the fuel costs) and also taxes you for different types of vehicles, (this could be added into an insurance premium).

So for eg a road tax levy on fuel say 10p per gallon. A car dioing 30 miles to the gallon would pay Â£30 for 9,000 miles. More miles or less mpg more money etc.

Then add a progressive scale based on weight, size, emmisions, age etc and add this into you insurance tax that you already pay.

Pay through the nose for big heavy gas drinkers IMO of course.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

rhaythorne said:


> The Subaru Justy (a small hatchback) had 4-wheel drive I think.


 Probably the worst idea Subaru ever had! Adds to the cost of the car more weight, less mpg higher repair bills and the car is terrible. Please don't anybody say they've got one!


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## DavidH (Feb 24, 2003)

I had a 4x4 for a couple of years and thought it was a great thing. I used it as a car and it put no more strain on the roads or enviroment or anything than a Volvo ,troopcarrier or any big car.

Is it not a free country? Should folk not be allowed to spend what's left on what they like?

On the tax thing, I think I, and anyone in employment pay quite enough thank you.

Maybe, then, tax should be loaded on all excesses /luxury goods.

It would be a funny old world if everyone was the same, Live and let live.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Live and let live ....









I have had two 4x4's in my time a Toyota Hi-Lux Pick-Up and a Toyota Landcruiser Pick-Up. Two of the best vehicles I have ever driven; in fairness I need them as I was in Africa at the time ..... it is absurd when you see 4x4's (Chelsea tractors







) driving around London.

Anway here is a younger thinner JoT and his Hi-Lux .... sigh ..... I miss Africa


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

The defence can dress it up how they want but.....4X4's are a bag of bollox, for fashion victims, poseurs, wanabees, and just plain sad people









I excuse people with a genuine off road hobby and tradesmen. I will not accept any other excuse! I am a tradesman, I have run an industrial electrical and roofing business for may years, I have NEVER had the need to purchase a 4X4, this is for the simple reason I live in the UK and not Sierra Leone or some other god forsaken pothole riddled country









Ever tried to turn left at a junction with a 4X4 waiting to turn right next to you? Chop their heads off that's what I say, selfish sad ****ers


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Not keen then Mark?


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

Been a driver in past -

I don't see a problem with the vehicles. Bullbars are illegal anyway aren't they? So anyone with them should be fined heavily.

As for the 'cars' themselves - i dunno what harm they do.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Errrr......... been to the pub.....but they are a pet hate of mine. The urban dwelling UK tosspots who aspire to owning these things just to park outside pub make me sick







I laugh at them, really I cannot stop smiling when I see them, the joke is well and truly on them









BTW I have worked in Asia, N&S America, Australasia and all over europe and funnily enough I have never driven a 4X4 and whaddayaknow, I have never been stuck ANYWHERE









BTW BTW I have never been to Africa, I have an irrational fear of going there


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

You been to pub Mark?Great - you will be in similar state to me.

I feel alone sometimes when on the p****


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## DavidH (Feb 24, 2003)

> I excuse people with a genuine off road hobby


I suppose that would have been me, It was cheaper for me to run a 4x4 and have it in everyday use than to run a second vehicle for to play with.



> 4X4's are a bag of bollox, for fashion victims, poseurs, wanabees, and just plain sad people


You coud say the same about watches, apparel, cars or whatever else we waste our spare cash on. They are good fun. You should get a blast in one.

What do you want us to do?

Work ,eat and sleep?


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Mrcrowley said:


> You been to pub Mark?Great - you will be in similar state to me.
> 
> I feel alone sometimes when on the p****


What, you mean like a nice warm glow feeling?









I have just spent 2 hours with my Dad to give my mum some respite (he has alzheimers) " Why are we here?" "Who are you" "Why are we here" "Who are you" "Where are my binoculars?"























No chance of me giving up drinking yet


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

Good on yer mate. I just hope sufferes of that ******* illness can still feel the benefit of drinking. They need it more than us.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Mark,

Well done.







I agree with you about 4x4s. But, life is full of soft ***** and always will be.









I wish we all wore blue boiler suits, you think I'm kidding?

Roll on 1984.























At least we wouldn't have any poseurs.














Most of these people wear "designer" watches because they think it's cool. Well eff them.
















F*ckers.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

DavidH said:


> > I excuse people with a genuine off road hobby
> 
> 
> I suppose that would have been me, It was cheaper for me to run a 4x4 and have it in everyday use than to run a second vehicle for to play with.
> ...


First point, consider yourself exonerated







I can understand that, no problem, nor do I denigrate the many Land Rover fanatics.

Second point, live and let live? That is my motto







I don't smoke (never had so much as a puff







), don't eat meat but anti-smokers and animal lib fanatics do my head in but.....................give me a point to owning a Toyamitsuzuz crewcab? They have ***** comfort, ***** fuel economy, ***** roadholding, ***** space they are a shellsuit equivalent for the modern age and I reserve the right to take the piss









The only advantage I can see is that they are there for peole like me to laugh at


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Mrcrowley said:


> Good on yer mate. I just hope sufferes of that ******* illness can still feel the benefit of drinking. They need it more than us.


 Wow! Very perceptive Paul, I have often wondered the same thing but it is so hard to tell


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

MarkF said:


> ........give me a point to owning a Toyamitsuzuz crewcab? They have shite comfort, shite fuel economy, shite roadholding, shite space they are a shellsuit equivalent for the modern age and I reserve the right to take the piss
> 
> 
> 
> ...










I needed one ....honest .... couldnt get across the Shashe River without it


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

JoT said:


> MarkF said:
> 
> 
> > ........give me a point to owning a Toyamitsuzuz crewcab? They have ***** comfort, ***** fuel economy, ***** roadholding, ***** space they are a shellsuit equivalent for the modern age and I reserve the right to take the piss
> ...


Doesn't look owt like a 215 quid Volvo 740 could not traverse with ease









Where is that? I am getting my map out


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

MarkF said:


> I have never been to Africa, I have an irrational fear of going there


 Mark check out this link, it might help the calm the irrational fear

http://www.delende.co.za/index.html


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## Roger (May 17, 2003)

As I said, without a proven need, that are the most pointless, selfish, road-damaging form of transport ever provided. Someone thought that 4WD has safety benefits, well perhaps in a Subaru Imprezza, but as is well known and proved 4X4 SUVs are unsafe at almost any speed,remember all the legal actions in the states?

The prehistoric design of most put pedestrians and most other road users in far more danger in the case of an impact, than would be the case with most other vehicles.

Also they tend to fall over if subjested to sudden directional changes at speeds not much above 20 mph ( see the recent 5th Gear TV program on that very subject)


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