# Seagull 1963 Air Force Reissue.



## William_Wilson

I'm not really sure why I bought one of these. :lol: Any way, it looks pretty good. Not sure about the timekeeping yet.














































Later,

William


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## Kutusov

It's a beautiful watch, congrats Will!

Timekeeping should be pretty good and the chrono operation on those is smooth as silk :thumbup:


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## packrat

Agree whole-heartedly with Renato.

He helped me find one of these a couple of months ago. It is a fantastic watch, sits very well on the wrist and I have found it to be an accurate timekeeper. Definitely a keeper!!


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## miroman

> I'm not really sure why I bought one of these.


How can You say that . It's a legendary watch, a 'must have' for every collector.

I also purchased one (with spaphire), no matter I have two others with the same movement.


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## Dazzer

I have to admit to not knowing anything about this watch, unlike the other on this thread.

But I think it's also a very nice looking watch Will, it works so well with the strap.

Wear in good health.

Daz.


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## zoki

i like it very much

after seeing those factory pics here on forum i decided to give more research into chinese mechanical watches


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## AlbertaTime

Big congratulations! The '63 is a classic, now. Mine is from Ivo at WatchUnique and it's been a really nice performer. These watches have an interesting history and the look and feel of a classic vintage European chrono with a dash of Asian spice ;-)

Mine:


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## AlbertaTime

zoki said:


> after seeing those factory pics here on forum i decided to give more research into chinese mechanical watches


If you want to see a number of (especially vintage) Chinese watches, you might check here (my Chinese watch website) or go direct to my collection photos. It's a place to start, anyways.


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## Draygo

Good call, William. A classic. I hope you enjoy it.

Here's mine


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## mach 0.0013137

Well done William, IMO they are superb watches I absolutely love mine :wub:

*Seagull `1963 Chinese Airforce`19 Zuan*










Shown here with a Model 0437 & another Chinese bird 










One strange thing; I notice my pair both have `19 Zuan` on the dial instead of `21 Zuan`, I`ve seen loads like mine so has the movement been upgraded? :huh:


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## vek

as a newbie to this brand i think it looks very retro.whats the build quality like ?


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## Draygo

mach 0.0013137 said:


> One strange thing; I notice my pair both have `19 Zuan` on the dial instead of `21 Zuan`, I`ve seen loads like mine so has the movement been upgraded? :huh:


Mach, I think it was just an attempt to replicate the dial of the original, which was 19 jewels. So the dial markings didn't match the movement. They obviously saw the error of their ways, as later production (like mine) changed to 23. There are other small differences, btw. I notice that your sub-dial hands are the more logical way round - the fine hand paired with the more detailed sub-dial markings. And your star is not filled-in red. Either model is great, though.

There are quite a few 'variants' of the 1963 reissue, aside from the 0437 you (and I) also have. There's a thread here that details them.


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## mach 0.0013137

Draygo said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> One strange thing; I notice my pair both have `19 Zuan` on the dial instead of `21 Zuan`, I`ve seen loads like mine so has the movement been upgraded? :huh:
> 
> 
> 
> Mach, I think it was just an attempt to replicate the dial of the original, which was 19 jewels. So the dial markings didn't match the movement. They obviously saw the error of their ways, as later production (like mine) changed to 23. There are other small differences, btw. I notice that your sub-dial hands are the more logical way round - the fine hand paired with the more detailed sub-dial markings. And your star is not filled-in red. Either model is great, though.
> 
> There are quite a few 'variants' of the 1963 reissue, aside from the 0437 you (and I) also have. There's a thread here that details them.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up & for the very interesting link :thumbsup:

As you say they are great watches as is the 0437 B)


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## MerlinShepherd

Anyone got a spare?


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## Mirokujames

Oh I like that very much


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## tixntox

It seems that the Chinese are the new Japanese. See it, make it as good or better and cheaper!


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## martinzx

Congrats William

Always like the '63' still on my wish list .............................. 

A classic watch

Cheers Martin


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## JTW

Just jumping on the bandwagon, great watches.


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## AlexC1981

Oh well, since everyone else has posted theirs


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## Kutusov

Is the original strap olive green or brown? I actually like the brown one but I would change it to one of Roy's 2p nylon straps


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## William_Wilson

Thanks guys.

I'm having a hell of a time getting a worthwhile picture of this thing. :lol: I certainly do like the uncluttered mostly dial appearance of the watch. It's lightweight but sturdy enough for it's purpose. I'm not too fond of the NATO like strap, whatever colour it is, but I'm sure it is of a better quality then any Asian leather one would be.

Anyway, another less than stellar attempt at a photo. :lol:










Later,

William


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## Kutusov




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## William_Wilson

Well, fancy that. It still doesn't explain why the dial of the watch says "ZUAN" on it. 

Later,

William


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## Kutusov




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## William_Wilson

:lol: :lol:

Later,

William


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## MerlinShepherd

William_Wilson said:


> Well, fancy that. It still doesn't explain why the dial of the watch says "ZUAN" on it.


Because they can't spell ç å¯¶


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## Draygo

Kutusov said:


> Is the original strap olive green or brown? I actually like the brown one but I would change it to one of Roy's 2p nylon straps


Neither







The one it comes on is a kind of gold. Looks good on olive green and also brown though - I was inspired by Alex to try a brown one. I've also had it on a blue nato and that worked for me, too as it picked up the blue-ing on the hands nicely. Mach's strap is the best I've seen - but I seem to remember he told me they're not made any more. Typical!


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## MerlinShepherd

William_Wilson said:


> . :I'm not too fond of the NATO like strap, whatever colour it is, but I'm sure it is of a better quality then any Asian leather one would be.


It's weird because when I was in China, both times, Urumqi (west), Shanghai and Beijing, I found really high quality leather goods and clothing. I wonder why they skimp on watch straps.


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## William_Wilson

MerlinShepherd said:


> William_Wilson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, fancy that. It still doesn't explain why the dial of the watch says "ZUAN" on it.
> 
> 
> 
> Because they can't spell ç å¯¶
Click to expand...

Not quite.  I'm not sure what the term the Cihnese use on watches means, but that doesn't seem to be isn't it. Maybe AlbertaTime can throw some light on the subject.



MerlinShepherd said:


> William_Wilson said:
> 
> 
> 
> . :I'm not too fond of the NATO like strap, whatever colour it is, but I'm sure it is of a better quality then any Asian leather one would be.
> 
> 
> 
> It's weird because when I was in China, both times, Urumqi (west), Shanghai and Beijing, I found really high quality leather goods and clothing. I wonder why they skimp on watch straps.
Click to expand...

I don't know, but the straps I've seen have been third rate at best.  I imagine the leather goods you saw were produced using old fashioned techniques that are no longer used in the West, because of the chemicals involved.

Later,

William


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## miroman

MerlinShepherd said:


> William_Wilson said:
> 
> 
> 
> . :I'm not too fond of the NATO like strap, whatever colour it is, but I'm sure it is of a better quality then any Asian leather one would be.
> 
> 
> 
> It's weird because when I was in China, both times, Urumqi (west), Shanghai and Beijing, I found really high quality leather goods and clothing. I wonder why they skimp on watch straps.
Click to expand...

This watch is 'born' with this strap, it's not a coincidence that most of them are with this green NATO strap. The look of the watch is so charismatic, that I don't believe it will look better with any other strap or bracelet.

Regards, Miro.


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## William_Wilson

miroman said:


> MerlinShepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> William_Wilson said:
> 
> 
> 
> . :I'm not too fond of the NATO like strap, whatever colour it is, but I'm sure it is of a better quality then any Asian leather one would be.
> 
> 
> 
> It's weird because when I was in China, both times, Urumqi (west), Shanghai and Beijing, I found really high quality leather goods and clothing. I wonder why they skimp on watch straps.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This watch is 'born' with this strap, it's not a coincidence that most of them are with this green NATO strap. The look of the watch is so charismatic, that I don't believe it will look better with any other strap or bracelet.
> 
> Regards, Miro.
Click to expand...

Personally, I find the 18mm NATO style strap a bit out of proportion to the 38mm case. There is also the question of whether a watch produced by the PRC should be fitted with a NATO. Perhaps Renato has and opinion of this subject. 

Later,

William


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## Kutusov

Draygo said:


> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the original strap olive green or brown? I actually like the brown one but I would change it to one of Roy's 2p nylon straps
> 
> 
> 
> Neither
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The one it comes on is a kind of gold. Looks good on olive green and also brown though - I was inspired by Alex to try a brown one. I've also had it on a blue nato and that worked for me, too as it picked up the blue-ing on the hands nicely. Mach's strap is the best I've seen - but I seem to remember he told me they're not made any more. Typical!
Click to expand...




mach 0.0013137 said:


> *Seagull `1963 Chinese Airforce`19 Zuan*


Wait just a minute... is that leather Mach? At least the bottom half???


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## Kutusov

William_Wilson said:


> There is also the question of whether a watch produced by the PRC should be fitted with a NATO. Perhaps Renato has and opinion of this subject.


Not as stong as with Russian watches... I have no idea how Chinese pilots wear their watches, I wouldn't be all that surprised to find out they use it on NATO straps. They are copy-cats by nature...

...but personally, and if I ever buy a watch like that, it's going straight to a regular leather strap or a 2p nylon. Like I said, I would try it on one of Roy's 2p brown nylons or something similar. No NATO strap though but in this case is pretty much only because I don't like to wear them and the big lump you end up with on the outside of your wrist. :yucky:


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## AlexC1981

I have a couple of Roy's nylons, but I can't get on with them. My wrists are thin so the strap goes straight down and round rather than out and round, which makes the watch look too big.

As demonstrated by the face-on photo below, you can hardly see any strap. It would be worse with the 1963 because of the long lugs.










Note to self.....must order more straps!


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## Vaurien

Mine is by the watchmaster. He's looking for a new barrel spring, because the spring isn't steel, and has broken.


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## mach 0.0013137

Kutusov said:


> Draygo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the original strap olive green or brown? I actually like the brown one but I would change it to one of Roy's 2p nylon straps
> 
> 
> 
> Neither
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The one it comes on is a kind of gold. Looks good on olive green and also brown though - I was inspired by Alex to try a brown one. I've also had it on a blue nato and that worked for me, too as it picked up the blue-ing on the hands nicely. Mach's strap is the best I've seen - but I seem to remember he told me they're not made any more. Typical!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Seagull `1963 Chinese Airforce`19 Zuan*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wait just a minute... is that leather Mach? At least the bottom half???
Click to expand...

AZIF!!!









It`s completely synthetic :wink2:


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## William_Wilson

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Draygo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the original strap olive green or brown? I actually like the brown one but I would change it to one of Roy's 2p nylon straps
> 
> 
> 
> Neither
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The one it comes on is a kind of gold. Looks good on olive green and also brown though - I was inspired by Alex to try a brown one. I've also had it on a blue nato and that worked for me, too as it picked up the blue-ing on the hands nicely. Mach's strap is the best I've seen - but I seem to remember he told me they're not made any more. Typical!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Seagull `1963 Chinese Airforce`19 Zuan*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wait just a minute... is that leather Mach? At least the bottom half???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AZIF!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It`s completely synthetic :wink2:
Click to expand...

Ok then, exactly what is it? Make, model, blah blah blah... :wink2:

Later,

William


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## William_Wilson

I finally managed some pictures that don't look like complete poo. 




























Later,

William


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## Kutusov

AlexC1981 said:


>


That is one of the old ones, isn't? With the metal keeper? I mean the new ones, they are basically a NATO strap folded over and stitched and have a nylon keeper...


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## Kutusov

mach 0.0013137 said:


> AZIF!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> It`s completely synthetic :wink2:


Synthetic... phawwww :yucky: Do you know what that stuff does to the environment, man??










:lol: :lol:


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## Kutusov

William_Wilson said:


> I finally managed some pictures that don't look like complete poo.


Errr... says who? 

Kidding, looks fantastic! Your 3rd originally posted photo is also very good, it just has a bit too much of "noise" (dang it, I never remember the proper term... those little pixel aberrations you get with very high ISOs...)


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## dowsing

Great pictures William, you've captured the colours well.

I've always had a soft spot for these and been tempted whenever they come up on the sales corner. I didn't realise there were that many little differences between them though. Apparently there was talk at one time of them bringing out a 40mm instead of 38mm, does anyone know anymore about that here?


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## dowsing

I've also found this, the Seagull D304.










What do people think. Seems a lot more money unfortunately.


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## AlbertaTime

I did put my '63 on another strap, and I really like the result. It's not all that different but I like teh texture better:


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## martinzx

AlbertaTime said:


> I did put my '63 on another strap, and I really like the result. It's not all that different but I like teh texture better:


That strap work well, the texture seems to emphasizes the dial & hand colours, is it denim?

Cheers Martin


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## AlbertaTime

dowsing said:


> I've also found this, the Seagull D304.
> 
> 
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> 
> What do people think. Seems a lot more money unfortunately.


The D304 is more money but there are a few worthwhile considerations:

1) the common version 1963 is a child of Tsinlien Sea-Gull of Hong Kong, not Tianjin Sea-Gull Watch Group.

Although the two companies have a close relationship, the common version 1963 was produced as an independent Tsinlien OEM product that kind of "took off" in the market in a few versions depending on order date, ordering company and so on. Don't get me wrong; there is no evidence that Tianjin Sea-Gull was in any way against the production, but it was just not a Tianjin product; it was a Hong Kong product.

There was even a Tsinlien sourced OEM Spanish version (a few versions actually) sold by Colamer & Sons. Here are photos of the Colamer variants from their website (although not there now), including one version labelled Colamer & Sons (There is a black dialed version as well on the website today. Looking at Colamer's website, it's very apparent that they have a close relationship with Sea-Gull HK, if not Tianjin as well.)



















2) Although a wonderful watch (and I love mine and proudly wear it) it is the usual view of the most authoritative Chinese mainland collectors that the popular western market 1963 version is "incorrect", "not authentic" or similar...and it is also felt by these collectors that it doesn't meet what most collectors expect as far as quality and quality control from Tianjin.

3) The D304, however, has a much better reputatation in mainland China.


For starters, the D304 _is_ a product of Tianjin Sea-Gull, is fully mainland built, and by all reports meets the considered-to-be-higher Tianjin QC standards. Those who own or who have held both attest to this.


Second, the D304 is closer visually in many respects to the original versions of the PLA airforce chronograph. I have heard mention that only protoypes were produced in 1963 and that the more general issue occured in 1965, but I don't know which version below is which.

This photo of one original variant is borrowed from Joel Chan at his wonderful Micmicmor Vintage Watch site










This second photo of another original PLA variant is borrowed from a post by collector "Gigfy" at WUS.


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## AlbertaTime

martinzx said:


> AlbertaTime said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did put my '63 on another strap, and I really like the result. It's not all that different but I like teh texture better:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That strap work well, the texture seems to emphasizes the dial & hand colours, is it denim?
> 
> Cheers Martin
Click to expand...

Thanks! It's more a duck green cotton canvas material but the seller doesn't seem to have any more :-(


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## AlexC1981

Kutusov said:


> That is one of the old ones, isn't? With the metal keeper? I mean the new ones, they are basically a NATO strap folded over and stitched and have a nylon keeper...


Yes, it's got a meal ring. Actually, I'm not sure now if I did get this one from Roy!

I have one of Roy's folded NATO types and it is a lot better.


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