# Chinese Type-1'S ?



## Worzel (Jan 12, 2010)

:help: My experience of Chinese watches in NIL, but in my never ending quest to research Hampden watches I need to follow a thread that involves Chinese watch manufacture.

It is well documented that Dueber-Hampden equipment was shipped from the US to Moscow in 1930 and that Type-1 Soviet movements were in effect reproductions of 15 Jewel Hampden ones. After the end of the war the manufacture of Type-1's declined. Mark Gordon has a Slatoustowsky made watch dated second quarter 1958 and I have not personally seen one later than this.

The destination, or disposal, of the original watch making equipment from Canton is impossible to determine. Henry B. Fried, an eminent watchmaker and horology lecturer reported seeing Dueber-Hampden machinery being used in China in 1986.

The implications of Type-1 type movements being made in China opens up a completely new can-of -worms for me.

So my question is... Has anyone seen this style of movement in old Chinese (or other Asian) watches?










Thanks in advance.

:hi:


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## Chascomm (Sep 9, 2005)

I've never seen a Chinese watch containing a Hampden-style movement, and I've been looking at Chinese watches for a while now.

Prior to 1955, watches assembled in China (mostly Shanghai) used imported movements, generally of good quality. I've never actually seen a pocket watch from that time but I'm sure they exist.

Wristwatches were initially around 32-34mm diameter growing slightly bigger into the 1970s. The only 'oversize' vintage Chinese wristwatch was the Meihualu from Jilin, featuring a pocket watch movement of roughly Molnija size shoehorned into a ~40mm case. I think we can rule out a Chinese Type-1 wristwatch.

As for entirely Chinese made pocket watches, The first one was a clone of the Anglo-Celtic PY sweep-second (e.g. Smiths Empire and Ingersoll) made by the ZuanShi (Diamond) clock factory. Production was later distributed to two or three other sites. Production ended in the late 1970s. One of these factories in Jinan later put out another no-jewel pin-lever type of a more modern layout. It's pretty rare. The only other dedicated pocket-watch movement developed in China was the Jilin HJ1A (as mentioned above). This was produced in reasonably large numbers in the 1970s and 80s. Essentially it is an oversized version of the Tongji (Standard) wristwatch movement.

Other pocket watches were made with wristwatch movements, usually slightly bigger ones like the ZuanShi SM1A and Nanjing SN2. Of course, later from the 1990s on, there were all those Tongji-powered cheapies for the export market. In the 21st century, there have been developed two clones of the venerable Unitas design, from Hangzhou and Tianjin.

The only other possible use for the big 41mm Hampden movement might be small clocks. I have never seen anything like that, but then I'm not really into clocks. The standard Chinese alarm clock pattern was established in 1958, and it is nothing like a watch movement. Nor was the minature version. Both are still made somewhere in China. With those in production there woud not really be any need for a 41mm movement with subsidiary seconds. The Chinese have always preferred sweep seconds even going back to the mid-19th century.

I think perhaps we're approaching this question from the wrong angle. Henry Fried reported seeing Hampden equipment being used in China. It is possible that Hampden machine tools were imported (maybe even from the USSR) and reconfigured for purposes other than turning out Type-1 movements.

Regarding the date stamp on Type-1 movements: Around the late 1950s, date stamping of movements ceased except for some military-issue equipment (e.g. some Poljot 31659s). Also that was around the time that production started on the Type-1-powered Zlatoust 191ChS dive watch so there must have been some Type-1s produced after that.

As regards where the tooling went, we need to remember that Type-1 manufacture was distributed to several sites. Only one of them would have possessed the original Hampden equipment. The rest were made on duplicate tools. If the 1st State Watch Factory was evacuated to Chelyabinsk during the war, then logically the Type-1 movements made in Zlatoust must have been made on duplicate tools. However if Type-1s ceased being made everywhere except Zlatoust in the late 1950s, then there is a very good chance that the original Hampden tools could have been sent to China. There was a lot of Soviet equipment going to China in the 1950s prior to the breakdown in Sino-Soviet relations around 1960.

So that's my thought, that the original Hampden equipement was shipped to China from the USSR in the late 1950s, but that it was reconfigured to produce other patterns of watches or clocks, or some other kind of precision mechanisms.


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## Worzel (Jan 12, 2010)

Chascomm said:


> I've never seen a Chinese watch containing a Hampden-style movement, and I've been looking at Chinese watches for a while now...
> 
> ... So that's my thought, that the original Hampden equipement was shipped to China from the USSR in the late 1950s, but that it was reconfigured to produce other patterns of watches or clocks, or some other kind of precision mechanisms.


Many thanks for you answer.

Your first observation confirms my suspicions, I have trawled for information on the NET and not come across a snippet.

I think your final thought has much credence.

I had wondered if there was perhaps a Chinese national on the forum, or someone who could have read such information on a Chinese only URL.

:hi:


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