# Joe Calzaghe



## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

What an awesome fighter!!!!

Joe wins last night to beat the Danish Kessler and take the WBA and WBC world championship belts!!!









He has to be our best British fighter to date....and Welsh too!!!









He has never lost a fight........and now 44 fights!!!

His success seems to be rather understated in Britain, but when you see some of his fights and look at the record he is awesome!!

He now has the 3 world championship belts and is totally undisputed.

An awesome awesome fighter.

The yanks must wonder who could even come near him.

He now looks set to move to light heavyweight


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I agree Griff; a superb boxer.

I listened to the crap commentary on BBC Radio Five Dead early this morning, you would have sworn Calzaghe was getting beaten









You didn't mention that he holds four titles now; WBA, WBC, WBO and IBF



> He has to be our best British fighter to date....and Welsh too!!!


I thought you were English Griff


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## Alas (Jun 18, 2006)

Griff said:


> He has to be our best British fighter to date He has never lost a fight........and now 44 fights!!!
> 
> He now looks set to move to light heavyweight


Bit of a sweeping statement. It's not just the fighter itself its who he has to beat in his division. So far Calzaghe has fought 2 - 3 world class opponents and beat them well. Other fighters fought at a time when better opponents existed in their class or moved weight divisions.

Some names for you.

Ricky Hatton

Randy Turpin

John Conteh

Freddie Mills

Nigel Benn

Ken Buchanan

Barry Mcguigan(fought for both NI and Eire)

Benny Lynch

etc

I won't add Lennox Lewis to the list as he fought the best when they were on the way out and had studiously avoided them until then. Makes him clever but not a contender for the best.

As I said above I think the most important thing in rating a fighter has to be the quality of his contemporaries. In this case Calzaghe suffers as the class of opponent available to him is lacking at the moment, apart from the last 3. I would worry for him if he moves division - Roy Jones Jr is back fighting as well as Felix Trinidad. Still they may be past it.









Alasdair


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## Ricster (Jul 16, 2005)

I stayed up to watch it on Setanta and I'm glad I did. Like you said Griff awesome. He got stung by a few good shots from Kessler but stood firm and showed all his boxing skills to win it.

Great stuff.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Alas said:


> Griff said:
> 
> 
> > He has to be our best British fighter to date He has never lost a fight........and now 44 fights!!!
> ...


*Bit of a sweeping statement you say!!!!!!*

















*You must be bloody joking!!!*

He's by far the best British boxer to date........ by a long long way.

Utterly awesome!!!!

He has it all........6 feet, 12 stone of solid muscle...........speed, aggression, light on his feet, power, hard as masonry nails, determination, clever, tactical, intelligent. An ultimate fighter. The very best of them all.

If he goes up to the next weight it'll be them that better watch out!!!!!!!

As I say, a totally understated and under celebrated British fighter that has to be the best we ever had.

He's 35 now, so savour the rest that is left of the best we have ever had!!!!!!


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## Alas (Jun 18, 2006)

Griff said:


> Alas said:
> 
> 
> > Griff said:
> ...


Frank Bruno was over 6ft plus 17st of solid muscle. Enough said


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2007)

Quality


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Alas said:


> Griff said:
> 
> 
> > Alas said:
> ...


His best work was in pantomime............nuff said!!!

Much of the muscle material was IMO between his ears!!!!
















I actually think Calzaghe would have beat the "pantomime" out of dear old Franky poos!!!
















He'd have been only fit to play Punch afterwards...............as in drunk!!


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## Alas (Jun 18, 2006)

Griff said:


> I actually think Calzaghe would have beat the "pantomime" out of dear old Franky poos!!!


Nope - a 17st heavyweight will destroy a much more skilful but lighter opponent. They don't have the punching power to trouble a heavyweight and the big lad only needs to get 1 shot in. I've been in with guys that outweigh me by a couple of stone and it is impossible. All they have to do is bully you/lean on you and you're soon knackered. Big Frank for all his failings would have put him out the ring with one shot.

Once you're in there you can't run away.
















Alasdair


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Frank is a nice man but a *hopeless* fighter IMO.

He trained as a boxer, and was *fair*.

Henry Cooper was *13.5 stone* when he put Ali on his arse.

I must say however, that Ali was by far the best heavyweight boxer there has ever been, and he dealt with fighters a fair bit heavier than he was himself when he was in his prime.

Calzaghe is lean, mean, and a natural fighter.

I like Ricky Hatton, and he is a Manchester lad. I fear however he will taste defeat at his next fight.

It really pisses me off how Joe Calzaghe has been so *understated* and *under reported *in the British media. Probably because he is Welsh.









*In his current weight there is no one in the world that is in his league, and it should be celebrated a lot more than it has been!!!!*


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## Alas (Jun 18, 2006)

Griff said:


> *In his current weight there is no one in the world that is in his league, and it should be celebrated a lot more than it has been!!!!*


I agree with you about that - at this moment in time though as although Roy Jones Jr has come back again he is maybe too old now. If you go back a few years the middleweights who would all have fought at super middle were

Marvellous Marvin Hagler

Thomas 'The Hit Man' Hearns

John 'The Beast' Mugabi

Sugar Ray Leonard

Roberto 'Hands of Stone' Duran

Having watched all of these guys at their peaks I think that was the top fighters and the top division for the last 30 years. Not many would have survived fighting these guys - even Calzaghe I'm afraid although Roy 'Boom Boom' Jones Jr would have been ok.

Calzaghe has done brilliantly with what has been put in front of him and you can't ask for more. Hatton has realised to gain the acceptance of the fight game you have to do it all in the States. Unfair but true.

Alasdair

Oh and just one thing about Frank being hopeless - great puncher but too slow. But he had the balls to go in with Tyson at his peak. He has my total respect for that alone.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

It's an awkard job trying to fathom out which of the current rated champions would have hacked it 20+ years ago. A world title belt of some sort is too easily achievable by either average or well managed fighters and I am not convinced that either Calzaghes's or Hattons career records stand up to close scrutiny.







The hype is ridiculous and all too easily believed by sports fans as opposed to boxing fans. If Hatton beats Mayweather then I'll be convinced but Calzaghe might have left it too late to "play away" and convince the yanks, which is what I am afraid is needed, as Alasdair pointed out.

I used to box in the gym, badly, I love the sport but fell out of love with it in the 90's, the myriad of word titles becoming availabe, Riddick Bowe dropping his belt in a trash can, watching Matthew Hilton getting smacked aroung the ring for 12 rounds at Bally's casio in his comeback fight and then getting a unanimous points decison.







Then followed the joke of Naseem Ahmed.









I have watched Junior Witter be completely mismanaged and yet through sheer talent end up as a World Champion and by an incredibly difficult path, he's the WBC champion,* the* belt to have. How many Brits even know who he is or what weight he fights at? Hatton spent the best part of 3 years avoiding him (and no wonder), I don't think Benn or Eubank would have, any "fighter" would want that WBC belt before any other.

If you don't know who "the man" is, it's pointless IMO.

Rant over.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Hatton is frightened of absolutely no one, but I think he will lose the next fight.

Sorry.............you just have no idea how good Calzaghe is.

Kessler was a very tough cookie!!


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Griff said:


> Hatton is frightened of absolutely no one, but I think he will lose the next fight.
> 
> Sorry.............you just have no idea how good Calzaghe is.
> 
> Kessler was a very tough cookie!!


Are you saying Hatton does not want the WBC belt? That would be a very strange thing. Like I said, Eubank or Benn, even if they had to risk everything, would have snatched at the opportunity. That is why, like them or not, they have respect, there are no if's or maybe's with those guys. Hatton said, (when he was running away) that if Witter won a world title then he'd fight him. Hatton had the bauble, Witter won the the WBC belt and no fight has happened, despite Witter offering "winner takes all". I don't blame Hatton, he has more money to be made albeit at the loss of respect. Anyway what do you know about boxing anyway?







Personally I think a switch hitter like Witter reminds Hatton of Jon Thaxton who beat Hatton but lost on points


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

MarkF said:


> Griff said:
> 
> 
> > Hatton is frightened of absolutely no one, but I think he will lose the next fight.
> ...





> Are you saying Hatton does not want the WBC belt










No!!!.................when did I say that!!!!











> Anyway what do you know about boxing anyway?


I know a good fighter when I see one.....and I know a good boxer when I see one!!!!









I think Hatton will lose the next fight........but hope I am wrong. That means I think he will get beat Mark!!!!!!

I dont think you have a true measure of just how good Calzaghe is!!


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Boxers can only fight who is put in front of them and every generation is different.

Was Clay/Ali better than Marciano? Was Sugar Ray Robinson better than Sugar Ray Leonard?

I personally believe that Lennox Lewis would have been competetive with the greats of the 1970's and beaten most of not all of them. Calzaghe probably would not have beaten the middleweights / light heavyweights of the 1980's (super-middleweight is a relatively recent weight) i.e. Hagler, Leonard and Spinks.

We will never know, just like we will never know if Clay could have beaten Marciano.


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## Alas (Jun 18, 2006)

I love these type of discussions as no-one is wrong.

If you have a preference then that is correct for you. However I tend to listen to people who know. I fought amateur for 9 years plus some years in just club boxing. My father was a club boxer for a long time and knew a lot about the game. I still visit a gym to talk to the guys i used to fight and train with and the opinions of these guys and the club trainers are worth listening to.

When someone talks about a fighter being the best eg Ali/Frazier/Liston or Tyson you have to take the styles into consideration. Someone like Tyson had to be given great respect as he was brutal, 2 handed, fast, driven and incredibly strong. He also had an all encompassing knowledge of champions over the years thanks to Cus D'Amato. Although I think Ali was probably the best heavyweight for all over skill and speed I have no doubt Tyson would have beaten him. Ali was made for a fighter that came in low and hooked low then high. This was shown in the Frazier fights. I don't think Tyson would have been bothered by Ali's mind games either which defeated a lot of opponents.

It's all getting away from Calzaghe but I'm just trying to show that I'm not basing what I say on just opinion. He has done all he can with what he has had to face but to talk of him as awesome or best British ever is fanciful. Look at his record and tell me who apart from Lacey was a top rated fighter and there are very few. Even Reid who was a good fighter was only beaten on a contraversial split decision and was not given a rematch.

Too many belts means they are devalued as it gives the boxers the chance to avoid each other but still be a world champion if there was a danger of losing.

Just my 2 cents........................again.

Alasdair


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Whay you say about Calzaghe *is* opinion

I've watched him many times, and I think I know how good he is.

*IMO *Ali's peak time of speed, brilliant footwork, whipping snap punches and boxing brain would have had Tyson falling through the ropes.

Calzaghe has something else too................incredible toughness and determination. His mental strength and preparedness is part of what is awesome about him, and I just dont think most people have a true grasp of his capability. Utterly awesome!!



> to talk of him as awesome or best British ever is fanciful


Sorry...........I think you are *way off* track with that!


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

JoT said:


> Boxers can only fight who is put in front of them and every generation is different.


Hatton is one of the few boxers who now calls the shots not his advisors. He simply does not want to fight Witter and now he has the cash argument to use. Fine, but hat is not the mark of a great fighter in my book.

Griff, the public has become aware of Calzaghe when he is 35 years of age!


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)




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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Alas said:


> Griff said:
> 
> 
> > *In his current weight there is no one in the world that is in his league, and it should be celebrated a lot more than it has been!!!!*
> ...


The 35-year-old Welshman shook off the Dane's powerful right hands and finished strongly for his 44th victory in a row and 21st defense of the WBO title in 10 years.

"To win the four major title belts, to be the unbeaten champion and 10 years a champion, it's just amazing and I'm so proud," said Calzaghe, who revealed it could be his final fight at 168 pounds before he finishes his career as a light-heavyweight.

"An extra seven pounds at this stage in my career -- 10 years a champion, four major belts -- what else is there to do? Dig all those guys up -- *Roy Jones, Bernard Hopkins, come on let's do it.*

*"I think I've shown them in the States what I'm all about. I'm looking at fighting for another 12 months and I want to fight the big fights, and hopefully this will set this up for the big fight and Hopkins will come out of hiding."*

*Calzaghe's long-term promoter Frank Warren added: "Joe will go to the States. He will fight Mr Hopkins in his home town. He will go to Philadelphia to fight him. He will fight him anywhere to get this on.*

*"Bernard Hopkins is a great fighter and a great athlete. But go back and think of the great fighters -- the Ray Leonards, the Tommy Hearns, the Marvin Haglers. They fought everybody. They didn't duck. If Bernard Hopkins is the warrior he says he is, then make the fight, make that fight with Joe Calzaghe." *


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## Alas (Jun 18, 2006)

Griff said:


> Whay you say about Calzaghe *is* opinion
> 
> I've watched him many times, and I think I know how good he is.
> 
> ...


If you have boxed at least at amateur level you might know what you are talking about. If not then you just have uninformed opinion. I've watched loads of rugby matches but accept I don't have a clue what it takes to be top class in the professional or even amateur game. As usual you only have one viewpoint are only listen to what suits and supports that viewpoint.

Do you know anything about Tyson's boxing brain. One of the best according to one of the most revered trainers in the game.

Ali's snap punches would not have moved the neck of Tyson whose hand speed was measured the same as Ali's.

Brilliant footwork does not count too much when you have an opponent whose two - handedness cuts off avenues of escape.

So throw out some more Awesomes etc but so far you've shown nothing to back it up.

I don't think Calzaghe will be talked about in the years to come as an Awesome champion in the same breath as Leonard, Hagler, Robinson, Marciano, Ali etc.

If you want an Awesome champion look up Julio Cesar Chavez. That is an awesome champion.

Anyway - enough of this verbal sparring against an uninformed opponent. Waste of time trying to have a discussion with a closed mind.

Alasdair

Oh and I forgot to say - fighting Hopkins would not impress me - the guy is 42.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

I am entitled to my opinion, and I don't care who you've boxed for.

Joe Calzaghe is a much under reported and under rated champion with poor support from the British media.

If he was an American and living there he'd have been all over the news, and they would have savoured and appreciated his awesome talent.

I started this thread in appreciation of a great win over Kessler, who is a real tough cookie.

If you are in the business of toning that down that's a matter for you, but if I choose to celebrate the guy and his success by starting this thread I'll do so with or without your approval.

I have this opinion, which hasn't altered one jot, and I am going to keep it!!!!









I also thought George Best was awesome, Nigel Mansell, Byjorn Borg, Rod Laver, Mohammed Ali, and quite a lot of other sportsmen. I wouldn't give a stuff what Brian London thought of Jim Watt........I would still think Watt was a great boxer whether the former thought so or not.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Have you forgotten your favourite, Lewis Hamilton, already Griff?


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Alas said:


> Oh and I forgot to say - fighting Hopkins would not impress me - the guy is 42.


43 by the time the fight is made! Only 2 years younger than me









You have to look closer than just taking the hype when British boxers are in the news. Would Calzaghe have taken, or wanted, a fight with a 35 year old Bernard Hopkins, the thought is laughable. Yet, now all we hear is "Bring on Hopkins", Hopkins this, Hopkins that, the guy is nearly 43 FFS!

Calzaghe has done very well, he's been exceptionally well managed, he's a bloody good "boxer", I do give him credit. But a great?


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Yes Mark...........a great *world champion*!! 

Maybe you'd be less sarcy about it if you were Welsh









Even the yanks have a lot more praise for him than you and some others seem to have, and that's part of what I have tried to point out!!!

There seems to be a peculiar English persona of always trying to put our sportsmen down. Comments about Lewis Hamilton are a case in point. I'm glad of my Welsh and Irish ancestry


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Griff said:


> Yes Mark...........a great *world champion*!!
> 
> Maybe you'd be less sarcy about it if you were Welsh
> 
> ...










My parents are Irish, it doesn't mean I have to be blind in my support of all things Celtic, what sort of Welshman is called Calzaghe anyway?









I am not putting him down, far from it, but IMO he is not a great and IMO his career record shows, quite clearly, that he is not and it's too late to become one now. Especially if he is spoiling for a fight with a middle aged guy.









2 big fights do not a make a great fighter. Look at the record, very good, but where are the names? Where are the "career defining fights"?

Calzaghe career.

The Lacy fight was a cracking performance but against a guy who was either on valium or had been grossly overrated. Kessler, well, was he injured or not? No sparring before the fight, no press access to his training, rumours of hand problems, very strange and even if they were true he was not going to miss his biggest payday.

I don't see anybody knocking Calazaghe in this thread, just the hype surrounding him at the mo.

Oh, and he's a"homer" too. Again IMO that does not make a great.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Amazing example of how to tone down the guy's success.

Unbelievable!!

You even have to imply Kessler must have been injured to get beat!!

I can only conclude that with muted and underplayed support like this we just dont deserve Joe Calzaghe.

I think I would have to advise him to move to America where he would really be appreciated

Over and out!!!!


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Hey, we leave getting the last word itnto somebody else 









This is my last post on the subject, I am trying to build my new bike up FFS!

The rumours about Kessler were rife for weeks, it seems that he did not even spar for the 2 weeks leading up to the fight.

Here's another way of looking at Calzaghe, what if he'd lost? My opinion of him would still have been the same, very good but not great. But how would the media and in particular the boxing media (and it's their opinion that counts) have regarded Calzaghe then? A boxers first loss makes people look at their records in a completley different way and for proof you need look no further than Jeff lacey, hailed as an unbeaten potential great, left Cardiff a vastly overrated fighter, his career at the top finished.

Now that Lacey fight would then have been Calzaghe's "best" result on a career based primarily on a list of cherry picked oppponents.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

I truly expressed my view, meant it, and still think it.

I'll tell you this though.................I wish I hadn't bothered!!!

I hope Joe moves to America where he'll get the support and treatment he well deserves!!!
















I suspect he likes Wales too much though, and at least there they know his worth!!


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Griff said:


> I truly expressed my view, meant it, and still think it.
> 
> I'll tell you this though.................I wish I hadn't bothered!!!


Why? You might be right. Since when did anybody post anything in here and have 100% agreement?









Anyway Calzaghe is way down my list of priorities, I have Schrader pump for a Presta valve and I've have lost my brake nipples.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Calzaghe truth and the correct opinion


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