# Thoughts about what movement this is - Derrick watch?



## Eaglegale (Jan 31, 2020)

It's in a 1940's (probably) Derrick watch. Not running sadly - just winds and winds and winds and winds.



















It's quite small...


----------



## Balaton1109 (Jul 5, 2015)

FHF 70, and probably the 10.5''' version methinks. Sounds like the mainspring is a gonner which is no big deal for a competent watchmaker (not a heel bar/key cutting kiosk)

The spring's dimensions as given by Ranfft are 1.70 x 9.5 x 0.10 x 315mm.

Regards.


----------



## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

The watch brand name, Derrick, has three mentions in Mikrolisk, one of which is a dated registration for 11 February 1947 by Eigeldinger & Co SA, at La Chaux-de-Fonds in Switzerland. Antiques Atlas shows a Derrick square-cased wristwatch dating to the 1940s and attributes it to the Biel-based Arthur Schwar of the Mical Watch Company, also linked with the Derrick brand name on Mikrolisk.


----------



## Eaglegale (Jan 31, 2020)

Balaton1109 said:


> FHF 70, and probably the 10.5''' version methinks. Sounds like the mainspring is a gonner which is no big deal for a competent watchmaker (not a heel bar/key cutting kiosk)
> 
> The spring's dimensions as given by Ranfft are 1.70 x 9.5 x 0.10 x 315mm.
> 
> Regards.


 Thank you!


----------



## Eaglegale (Jan 31, 2020)

Always said:


> The watch brand name, Derrick, has three mentions in Mikrolisk, one of which is a dated registration for 11 February 1947 by Eigeldinger & Co SA, at La Chaux-de-Fonds in Switzerland. Antiques Atlas shows a Derrick square-cased wristwatch dating to the 1940s and attributes it to the Biel-based Arthur Schwar of the Mical Watch Company, also linked with the Derrick brand name on Mikrolisk.


 Thank you also!


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

@Always"watching"@Eaglegale A small addition that ties the above observations together - in November 1957, Eigeldinger & Co sold a whole bucket of trademarks to Mical Watch Co, including "Derrick". Mical was owned by Arthur Schwar in partnership with several others, including Fritz Rico Baumgartner, who may or may not have been connected to the movement Baumgartners. "Derrick" expired in Sept 1967. I wonder if we've found one or two of the suppliers to Louis Braham.

The typface of the Eigeldinger "Derrick" wordmark matches the one on that watch.


----------



## Eaglegale (Jan 31, 2020)

spinynorman said:


> @Always"watching"@Eaglegale A small addition that ties the above observations together - in November 1957, Eigeldinger & Co sold a whole bucket of trademarks to Mical Watch Co, including "Derrick". Mical was owned by Arthur Schwar in partnership with several others, including Fritz Rico Baumgartner, who may or may not have been connected to the movement Baumgartners. "Derrick" expired in Sept 1967. I wonder if we've found one or two of the suppliers to Louis Braham.
> 
> The typface of the Eigeldinger "Derrick" wordmark matches the one on that watch.


 Interesting, thank you! Trademarks are a minefield of complexity and interweaving for sure.

Weren't the Braham watches sold as "Derrick B" rather than "Derrick"? I wonder if they had to use "Derrick B" as "Derrick" was already in use? I can see a scenario where even though Braham used "Derrick B" that the "Derrick" trademark holder said it was too close to their trademark for comfort and hence Braham changed it to "Kered"? I guess we'll never know! The "Derrick" watches and the "Derrick B" watches have style/look similarities which makes me think they were contemporaries, and they look a bit earlier than the Kereds I have seen. There's the complication that most of the "Derrick B" watches seem to have Swiss movements, whilst most Kereds seem to have non-Swiss movements.

...and then there's the DERRICK "B" watch on Worthpoint, where the B is in quotes!


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Eaglegale said:


> Interesting, thank you! Trademarks are a minefield of complexity and interweaving for sure.
> 
> Weren't the Braham watches sold as "Derrick B" rather than "Derrick"? I wonder if they had to use "Derrick B" as "Derrick" was already in use? I can see a scenario where even though Braham used "Derrick B" that the "Derrick" trademark holder said it was too close to their trademark for comfort and hence Braham changed it to "Kered"? I guess we'll never know! The "Derrick" watches and the "Derrick B" watches have style/look similarities which makes me think they were contemporaries, and they look a bit earlier than the Kereds I have seen. There's the complication that most of the "Derrick B" watches seem to have Swiss movements, whilst most Kereds seem to have non-Swiss movements.
> 
> ...and then there's the DERRICK "B" watch on Worthpoint, where the B is in quotes!


 I have copies of several Braham adverts where the brand used is "Derrick", but it's in a diamond shape, not the version on the watch you posted here, which Eigeldinger owned.

It's possible the Braham "Derrick" was also registered in Switzerland, but the ocr driving the pdf search might not find it. Eigeldinger had a lot of trademarks, which makes me think they were contract manufacturers for importers in other countries.


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Eaglegale said:


> Interesting, thank you! Trademarks are a minefield of complexity and interweaving for sure.
> 
> Weren't the Braham watches sold as "Derrick B" rather than "Derrick"? I wonder if they had to use "Derrick B" as "Derrick" was already in use? I can see a scenario where even though Braham used "Derrick B" that the "Derrick" trademark holder said it was too close to their trademark for comfort and hence Braham changed it to "Kered"? I guess we'll never know! The "Derrick" watches and the "Derrick B" watches have style/look similarities which makes me think they were contemporaries, and they look a bit earlier than the Kereds I have seen. There's the complication that most of the "Derrick B" watches seem to have Swiss movements, whilst most Kereds seem to have non-Swiss movements.
> 
> ...and then there's the DERRICK "B" watch on Worthpoint, where the B is in quotes!


 More thoughts. There's a 1953 Derrick watch from The Vintage Wrist Watch Company on sellingantiques.co.uk. Same movement as yours I think, but it's stamped with a snail logo. These commonly get attributed to Arthur Schnegg, but his business went bust in 1909, and anyway, his snail didn't look like that. The "Derrick" logo is the one Braham advertised. Caseback is stamped "Stolkace BRITISH MADE G.A.S.", which was a Birmingam case maker, George Arnold Stoll. So, at least a date, but I'd love to know who owned that snail.

https://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/755200/gents-9ct-gold-derrick-wrist-watch-1953/#


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Oh, I've found the other snail on Mikrolisk, unconfirmed, but attributed to "Emil Schnegg Dufour Watch". That business stopped trading in March 1919, so I don't know what their snail would be doing on a 1950s watch. Alternatively "Emile Schnegg", who may just be a spelling mistake. He became President of Dufour Watch and was described as an accountant. Later E. Schneggs were in the metal business, as far as I can see. Pffft!!! http://www.mikrolisk.de/show.php?site=280&suchwort=Schnegg&searchWhere=all#sucheMarker


----------



## Barry Clarke (9 mo ago)

Derrick "B" was indeed my mother's brother, Uncle Derrick Braham, who was the son of Phyllis and Louis Braham. Phyllis's maiden name was Newmark and she worked first at the Newmark watch business that was started by her father, Louis Newmark, which is where she met her husband. Louis Braham Ltd. became the sole distributor of the Newmark watch brand. Derrick, indeed too - with the alternative spelling of Derrick backwards forming the Kered watch brand, - was a brilliant but reluctant director of the business, and he left around 1960 to go into farming. However, the rest of the family, including my father, Denis Clarke, remained in the business, and it was my father who was responsible in the 1950s and 1960s for the UK distribution of Avia and Cyma through the associated family companies. Another small watch brand was Elbee, which stood for the initials LB, Louis Braham!


----------



## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

Kered watches are a bit of a forum regular feature, so the mors info you have @Barry Clarke the better. Especially the Seiko versions


----------

