# Old Jags and other British stuff...



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

What is it about old Jags, I've tried mercs and to be honest found them a bit boring after a bit, I love BMW's because they are fast and fun and there are loads of parts cheap. So they are easy to run and modify.

But what is it about old British stuff. You know the likes of Triumph with the old 2500 PI, the old Jensens, The old Jags from mk2, to mk10 and 420g. The Jag XJ from the 70's and 80's.

I love the series 2 xj in brown...go on admit it so do you! Series 1


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## jsud2002 (Nov 7, 2015)

I like the Jaguar that John Thaw drove when he was Morse , I have no idea which model it is but I do know I like it


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

jsud2002 said:


> I like the Jaguar that John Thaw drove when he was Morse , I have no idea which model it is but I do know I like it


Its a mk2 supposedly. Didnt it start life as a daimler though. Apparantly he hated driving it. Too heavy. I think it was the little 240 engine. The big ones were the cops and robbers choices. In the 60s. When they got the kray twins. They shut the m1 and took them to prison in an old stype each. At 130mph. To make sure they werent sprung. On the way.

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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Cop this.






Sooner have this though.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

not sure about the callum mk2, not been sure about any of his designs. Though his xk was better than the early one and the 2010 xj is growing on me. In fact the 2010 xj would be a good barge in the next few years when its gets down to say 4 grand or less. Amazing these are nearly 10 years old now. This one is 9 grand with 150k on the clock and i could be tempted with one of these when they drop a bit more. Prices have held up well. Probably because its still a current model.










Just looking whats out there and my favourite Jag of all time has still got to be the series 3 xj, in fact i think they are probably one of the nicest shapes ever.

I also like the supercharged x300 xjr


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

A few old jags that would be fun

95 x300 xjr for 6 grand with 90k










i love this for £3,800


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

Not one of the better Jags but still great to drive.

I still think the E type is the best looking car ever and the Mk2 isn't far behind


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

The xf is coming down fast in diesel form to affordable levels, they will probably be a bit of fun too. Had an S Type 3 litre v6 on a v reg, only paid 2 grand for it in 2010 and it didn't give a minutes bother. Totally reliable and fast. Looked good in dark green. Sold it with 200k on the clock. In fact the last of the line of these in the 2.7 twin turbo diesel are a bargain and good looking. The s type r would be fab.










the last of the line x350 in diesel are looking good too.

this s type diesel sport with the kit on it looks great for less than 2 grand and only 113k on the clock.


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## Andyj56 (Dec 12, 2015)

Nigelp said:


> What is it about old Jags, I've tried mercs and to be honest found them a bit boring after a bit, I love BMW's because they are fast and fun and there are loads of parts cheap. So they are easy to run and modify.
> But what is it about old British stuff. You know the likes of Triumph with the old 2500 PI, the old Jensens, The old Jags from mk2, to mk10 and 420g. The Jag XJ from the 70's and 80's.
> I love the series 2 xj in brown...go on admit it so do you! Series 1


Can't say I've ever found Mercedes Benz cars to be boring, best cars I've ever owned, I've had 3 Jags, everyone was a money pit really, not doing that again lol
SL 320 Edition and CL55 AMG, both wonderful cars.






























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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Andyj56 said:


> Can't say I've ever found Mercedes Benz cars to be boring, best cars I've ever owned, I've had 3 Jags, everyone was a money pit really, not doing that again lol
> SL 320 Edition and CL55 AMG, both wonderful cars.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


 Yeh they're ok what i probably should have said is i got bored of mine rather than them being boring, I probably had too many all at once. But yes good reliable cars. Never had any real problems with any of the 3 CL500's or the two S500 saloons. Yeh your right about jags.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

I'd quiet like one of these, probably what i'd go for if i need to change at some point. Not necessarily this one but probably an e90 335 d twin turbo diesel. I don't think i would buy anything else for myself other than a BMW 3. I want to keep my e46 as long as it lasts. Best car i've ever had.









https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2007-BMW-335D-M-SPORT-AUTOMATIC-3-0-TURBO-DIESEL-24V-285-BHP-12-MTHS-MOT-6-MTHS/292926580334?hash=item4433c8e66e:g:UgkAAOSwze9bXytd:rk:2f:1

The best most reliable Jag I had was probably my 1990 XJS 3.6. And along with my 928 Porsches it sticks in my memory as a favourite. Bought it in 1996. With 80k on the clock from wynne thomas the Jag specialist in essex. It was satin beige and being a 1990 had the sports suspension etc, it really did drive well. Like this but with the 3.6. Loved it.


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## Andyj56 (Dec 12, 2015)

I've never been able to like an xjs, just never liked the styling, just sometimes I see a Celebration xjs in a good colour and like it, always preferred the xj coupe, that looked great!


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

To be honest they were not built well i was lucky but it did drive well. I swapped it for a w124 coupe! :biggrin:










The w124 was probably the best built of any of the mercs i've had, up there with the 126. Better than the CL's and better than the w220 and 221 s class. I expect the r129 SL is the same. In fact there is a nice 129 on the trader.










https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201812123208228?postcode=ll284su&radius=1500&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&make=MERCEDES-BENZ&sort=price-asc&model=SL CLASS&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1

some nice c350 diesels which would make a good fast daily driver too!










like that with full amg kit and the 7 speed.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201901184057980?advertising-location=at_cars&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&fuel-type=Diesel&radius=1500&make=MERCEDES-BENZ&model=C CLASS&sort=price-asc&postcode=ll284su&minimum-badge-engine-size=3.0&page=1

only 3 grand or so.


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## Andyj56 (Dec 12, 2015)

I still have my 124, just a 2.3 injection, but 136bhp so quick enough, incredible build quality from the time when Daimler Benz said 'the best or nothing' 123k miles on it now. Just keeps going with no problems. it's related to the SL which is based on a shortened 124 floorpan.









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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Andyj56 said:


> I still have my 124, just a 2.3 injection, but 136bhp so quick enough, incredible build quality from the time when Daimler Benz said 'the best or nothing' 123k miles on it now. Just keeps going with no problems. it's related to the SL which is based on a shortened 124 floorpan.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


 yeh i know you still have it, its been parked on your drive all week! :biggrin:

but yes i'm prefering the older stuff before electronics went silly!

190 is a good option too.

and there is a lovely cheap 126 on the trader...


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## Andyj56 (Dec 12, 2015)

Back in it's garage now!


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

What's not to like about an old Jag.

The Germans made some decent Coupes but "Cream" always comes to the top.

:biggrin:




























And I'd venture to say sharper looking than an E-Type.

What was it they said

Pace with Grace ??

And before anybody says they were rusty buckets so we're most other motors of that era including most of Hitlers boys offerings. Try finding a 70's Porker that hasn't had just about every panel replaced.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201901163994887?advertising-location=at_cars&sort=price-asc&make=MERCEDES-BENZ&postcode=ll284su&radius=1500&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&year-to=1995&year-from=1990&page=2



BondandBigM said:


> What's not to like about an old Jag.
> 
> The Germans made some decent Coupes but "Cream" always comes to the top.
> 
> ...


 the xjc was a gem. :yes:

I think that is what i had in mind its that styling that jag had with the series 1 to series 3 and the ride power and handling if you could afford to keep one properly or buy one new at the time. Could anything touch a series 1 v12 xj in 1969 or indeed a series 3 daimler double six in 1992? They were gorgeous!










and the interior!










probably why the mint looking s class is 3 grand and the daimler double six series 3 isn't!


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

And










Looks like a Rover out front.

:biggrin:










My cousin had a few of these. Back in the day they were a serious bit of kit.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

BondandBigM said:


> And
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 your on my wave length mate SDI vitesse we should have fooked the germans! Oh hang on we did. What went wrong.

my dad had one in what '84 on a b reg, i filled the rear arches on it after school in the evenings.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

I wish I had kept the one I had, mine was pretty much identical to this one but it was on genuine Minilites instead of the RS four spokes.

The Pinto had been worked over and on a rolling road had a tad under 180hp at the wheels, not to shabby back in the day.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

My pride and joy in 1975...Triumph TR6...wish I still had it. 2.5PI straight 6, overdrive on second, third and forth...went like s**t off a shovel, especially when you knocked it out of overdrive. Did about 10mpg...I went to Bognor Regis in it once, about 90 miles, and it used a whole 10 gallon tankfull to get there. Sold it for £800 because I coudn't afford a new set of tyres to pass the MOT.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

BondandBigM said:


> I wish I had kept the one I had, mine was pretty much identical to this one but it was on genuine Minilites instead of the RS four spokes.
> The Pinto had been worked over and on a rolling road had a tad under 180hp at the wheels, not to shabby back in the day.


Bet you miss that. As with the rs easily fixed with your own socket set. Them were the days eh.

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BondandBigM said:


> What's not to like about an old Jag.
> The Germans made some decent Coupes but "Cream" always comes to the top.
> 
> 
> ...


Going back to your rusty comments. That covers about every c and e class between 1995 and 2003 doesnt it? Merc certainly perfected rust on those. But yeh porsche 911 930. The targas and convertibles were prone and the coups really. Going back to the 70s everything rotted. German, jap and brit...oh and the lancia beta.

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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

When it comes to sheer build quality the 2006 volvo s80 we had last year was better than any merc bm or jag weve had. Totally solid.

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The 2012 e class next door is showing signs of rust on a wheel arch already.























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## Bonzodog (Aug 29, 2018)

Nigelp said:


> When it comes to sheer build quality the 2006 volvo s80 we had last year was better than any merc bm or jag weve had. Totally solid.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk
> 
> ...


 Shame about the rust,I don't think the Mercs are as good as they used to be.Mind you same can be said for many things .


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## stdape (Mar 9, 2018)

British car and motorcycle manufacturing was brilliant. Quality rather than a lot of the cheap imported types. Maybe when we leave EU, we can get some back. Being more into Motorcycles, would love to own British Classics. But with lack of money a pipe dream. Quality over speed anyday


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Bonzodog said:


> Shame about the rust,I don't think the Mercs are as good as they used to be.Mind you same can be said for many things .


In my experience they are as good as but not better than anything else. As their marketing trys to make out. For example the s class saloon is no better no worse than an equivelant costing car from a competitor. Whether they be German for example BMW 7, Audi with the A8 or indeed Japanese with the Lexus LS. Jag are another matter and can be bother in my experience. But generally speeking all the top stuff these days german and jap is good. If expensive when it does go wrong.

Same for the lower models c e class etc as good no better than bm 3 or 5. Or the lexus IS or the VW and Audi range. As bond would say its all smoke and mirrors. As good no better. Id wager most fords are just as good in a lot of ways. If not as luxurious or prestigious.

It just comes down to which you prefer.

And they are all cheap used for a good un. So you can have anything you want.

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stdape said:


> British car and motorcycle manufacturing was brilliant. Quality rather than a lot of the cheap imported types. Maybe when we leave EU, we can get some back. Being more into Motorcycles, would love to own British Classics. But with lack of money a pipe dream. Quality over speed anyday


Very true

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Going back to the older stuff. The w124 and 190 range of the 80s were more rust resistant than the bmw 5 and 3 no doubt. And the japd didnt enter the fray until 89 with the ls400. When they did. CAR magazine interviewed. A senior engineer at MB. Who said they had a lexus in for review at MB in Germany. At the time they were still making the w126. And they realised immediately the lexus was far better iin every way. The response of the Chief Exec was reported as saying "get the s class and meet me at the drawing board". Bmws response was similar. Their chief engineer said referring to the lexus. "This is how we should be building cars".

Then mb lost the plot joined with chrysler and made some of the worst cars on the road in the mid 90s. And jaguar? Plodded on with a warmed over xj40.

Maybe the Lexus is still the best?

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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Its become a grudge match between the Germans, Brits and Japs this thread...bound to happen. Pitting Jag and Merc is like waving a red flag at the bull in the rival enthusiasts. They are two natural adversaries. I should have put Merc v Jag. Its more emotive than Seiko v Rolex.

Just found this on the trader for less than 3 grand even the mot history checks out as very good!

£2,990 SL300 and its the early straight 6 too.










https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201811142432744?advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&postcode=ll284su&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&year-to=1995&year-from=1920&sort=sponsored&page=1&modal=photos

Back to the purpose of the thread though, which was really to focus on the British stuff, hows about this...

Of the two this lovely 4 litre Jag Sov for £2,500 would be me.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201812012911879?advertising-location=at_cars&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&radius=1500&sort=sponsored&postcode=ll284su&year-to=1995&year-from=1920&page=1&modal=photos










Typical though looking at the mot history it looks like the old jag might need a bit of welding underneath. No doubt the Merc is by far the better car not as pretty or striking but much better quality.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

What about TVR, terrible reputation but is it warrented.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> What about TVR, terrible reputation but is it warrented.


 My mate owned three, and the answer, in his case, yes. Started off with a MK1 Grantura and went downhill. Look good though. I see one going past every now and then with a set of reverse cone megaphones on it, sounds good.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

TVR's always look and sound fab, no experience of them, but when i lived in Burnley a fella next door owned an Engineering company called Marland Engineering. He had a few fancy cars in the early 90's to late 90's. Starting with a BMW 535i sport, then a Lexus, then oddly a green TVR. Always was loud and it always seemed to work.

As always with me i was thinking within the what would i be prepared to spend. so if it was a tvr i wouldnt bother the cheapest on the trader is 10 grand!










going back to @BondandBigM last night, have you seen the price of the fast sd1?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-SD1-Vitesse-Twin-Plenum/223323516144?hash=item33ff1e6cf0:g:aD4AAOSwdrdcE4KK:rk:4f:1



















It seems if you are a bit skint you are stuck with the usual offerings from Mercedes, BMW, Jag, Audi etc...


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

forget the crap lets get back to some real cars which we can afford to buy...and run? 8 grand come on makes the S Class Merc and everything else look silly!

@BondandBigM bondy bondy bond this is surely you and m










https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201507305625819?radius=1500&advertising-location=at_cars&make=BENTLEY&sort=price-asc&postcode=ll284su&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&page=1&modal=photos


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Nigelp said:


> forget the crap lets get back to some real cars which we can afford to buy...and run? 8 grand come on makes the S Class Merc and everything else look silly!
> 
> @BondandBigM bondy bondy bond this is surely you and m
> 
> ...


 As I walked back to the train station tonight I passed a small car garage.

Full size fully loaded newish shape Range Rover, looked tidy.

£4995

:huh:

Almost tempting, I only do about 20 miles a day so fuel wouldn't be an issue.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

BondandBigM said:


> As I walked back to the train station tonight I passed a small car garage.
> 
> Full size fully loaded newish shape Range Rover, looked tidy.
> 
> ...


 good price yes i could fancy one break me from the German monotony


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> ﻿ Almost﻿ tem﻿pting, I only do ab﻿out 20 miles a﻿ day so fuel ﻿wouldn't be an issu﻿e. ﻿﻿


 The L322, 2002 to 2006 with the BMW 4.4 litre V8 are OK. Long distance high speed you'll get them down to 11mpg. Don't give much bother if you get a good one and look after it.


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## Andyj56 (Dec 12, 2015)

That interior on the Bentley lets it down, I'm sure the seats are excellent but look more Seventies Corrine.


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## Andyj56 (Dec 12, 2015)

Andyj56 said:


> That interior on the Bentley lets it down, I'm sure the seats are excellent but look more Seventies Corrine.


 Cortina lol auto correct!


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

I've always loved the xjs, I believe it was because my Dad's boss had one when I was a kid.










Not sure about these though. :crazy5vh:


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## Steve D70 (Nov 15, 2018)

I wish they'd make a version of this , it's stunning!


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Steve D70 said:


> I've always loved the xjs, I believe it was because my Dad's boss had one when I was a kid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I remember the chopped off xjs from my days in the jag drivers club. It started life as a blue one that had been rear ended.

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Andyj56 said:


> Cortina lol auto correct!


Ive sat in one years ago they feel a bit crap by modern standards. Like them church wood things. I think the all car dates to about 1980. The cortina is probably a better option. But more expensive now!

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Ive come to the conclusion a merc w221 cdi lwb would probably be best. In swb the 221 was tight in the back. Those big arches intruded a lot. According to dad. Yeh id have another 221. Better than this old British crap. Yep changed my mind. Just woke up with a different aspect on the all thing. Maybe the S Class is the best car in the world afterall. I mean it must be you get to sit behind a star.

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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

These were a bit special, with Ferguson Formula 4 x 4, and anti lock brakes in the mid 60's.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

WRENCH said:


> These were a bit special, with Ferguson Formula 4 x 4, and anti lock brakes in the mid 60's.


 the Jensen Interceptor and its sister the FF are probably my favourite car of all time, but probably one i'll never own given the rust, fuel and value of these now. I nearly bought one in 1995. It was a Carmine Red with cream leather, Mark 111 Interceptor 7.2 on an M reg and was for sale at an old watermill just outside Oulton Park. It looked good on the pics in the old classic mag. When I got there it was full of filler and starting to bubble. The leather was split and there was oil on the outside of the v in the engine bay. It was £7,995. I looked at it and looked back at my old 635CSI and thought niiighhhh won't bother. But I still love the looks and the image.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Nigelp said:


> ﻿ ﻿probably﻿ my ﻿favourite﻿ car﻿ of all ﻿time﻿﻿


 Either of these for me.



















Or a 504 cabriolet with a V6.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

WRENCH said:


> Either of these for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Yes I've seen both in C&SC over the years, both nice. The pug at the bottom has TRX Michelins...best check out the price mate before you get one if its on metric alloys. Probably other options. I had them on my 635 in 1991. I used to get used ones in coppy nook blackburn for 30 quid a throw, no questions asked. They have always been mega money! Soft compound too.










https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/220-55vr390-michelin-trx.html


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Only pug I'm likely to get,










Or preferably a Mussolini special,


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

WRENCH said:


> Only pug I'm likely to get,
> 
> 
> 
> Or preferably a Mussolini special,


 I grew up with BMX always wanted one of these but mine came from gentleman johns for 65 quid in 1984


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

I was round at my mates workshop earlier, and he was setting up his old lotus for going on the road 1st April. Phew, you forget how smelly these old carb fuelled, non cat engines are.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

check if you've got lead poisoning, rub your nose on a sheet of white paper if you can write your name you are done for like rogers sadly neglected g shock watch.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Nigelp said:


> check if you've got lead poisoning, rub your nose on a sheet of white paper if you can write your name you are done for like rogers sadly neglected g shock watch.


 I should have been dead, or deaf, one or the other or both, years ago.






Hey @Nigelp how about one of these. Did a short wheel base one over 20 years ago. This guy makes it look impressive (maybe it is) but the reality in my case was broken halfshafts and wrecked gearboxes.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

WRENCH said:


> I should have been dead, or deaf, one or the other or both, years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 i know what you mean i still think thinners is the best way to get my hands clean.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

First school I went to, one of these was the "bus".










Humber Super Snipe, and we were all mesmerized by my neighbours diesel Standard.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

This qualifies as old and "other British stuff"

Dennis F12 Pump Escape, ex Middlesex Fire Brigade (1954 to 1964) and Surrey Fire Brigade (1965 to 1972) powered by a straight eight Rolls Royce engine photographed in Reigate last year


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

This looks nice for less than 2 grand, one of the last XJ40's and quiet tidy looking Daimler 4 ltr.



















the boot lid used to rot on these, i had one when i was 22 in 1996 on an f reg, this ones looks good.



















kingfisher blue that a lovely colour, and the interiors still put anything german to shame when it comes to class and luxury, good old jag eh?

XJR X300 auto on a 1995, looks nice at 3 grand


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## tixntox (Jul 17, 2009)

I've been tackling the upper rear arms on my 1999 Rover 75. I noticed a couple of rust spots appearing on the top when I checked it for MOT last year and further investigation revealed that the spots were actually a rash!!!










A trawl of the 75 forums proved to be informative that "OEM" replacements were being made, first in China (Roewe stock - now no longer available) and latterly India. The quality of the Indian parts left a lot to be desired (missing and defective welds, non-aligning pressings etc.), so I managed to find a pristine set of original stock from Portugal. I have applied Dynax S50 cavity wax (internally) and Hammerite, then cavity wax (externally) to the replacements. They will probably outlive me! The old girl is 20 years old in July so well worth the effort. My old bones are aching after all the crawling about and contortions but I'm feeling very happy to have it strong again.










Mike


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

WRENCH said:


> First school I went to, one of these was the "bus".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 [IMG alt="Image result for humber imperial v8" data-ratio="75.50"]https://www.historics.co.uk/media/1410651/1966_humber_imperial_1.jpg?anchor=center&mode=crop&width=1000[/IMG]

When I was about 5 we lived on Swaine Street in Nelson.

[IMG alt="Image result for nelson back streets" data-ratio="60.33"]https://www.thelancasterandmorecambecitizen.co.uk/resources/images/6291417/?type=responsive-gallery-fullscreen[/IMG]

A father and his two sons lived across the back from us and used to park a big black humber imperial i think, with a red leather interior and a glass division between the front and back seats. They were antique dealers and the dad was curator for the British museum in London. Im going back to 1977. They had a

[IMG alt="Image result for big barrel organ and real monkey" data-ratio="93.40"]http://bookpalace.com/acatalog/JacksonMonkeyLL.jpg[/IMG]

with real monkey and used to go to York at weekends busking.

Then in about 1979, one of the brothers shot the other brother killing him.

But i remember the car it was lovely.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

At Big M's daughters earlier and her fence had got blown down in the recent winds.

This old Austin is in the neighbours garden, initially looked a bit rough but on closer inspection it's all there and reasonably solid.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

BondandBigM said:


> At Big M's daughters earlier and her fence had got blown down in the recent winds.
> 
> This old Austin is in the neighbours garden, initially looked a bit rough but on closer inspection it's all there and reasonably solid.


 they've got to be from North Yorkshire.

[IMG alt="Image result for north yorkshire bloke" data-ratio="69.83"]http://www.urban75.org/photos/yorkshire/images/whitby-north-yorkshire-67.jpg[/IMG]

probably had it since new,


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