# Dating Smiths Watches



## aroma (Dec 11, 2009)

For those of you who are interested in Smiths, I have just added my two-penny worth to the pinned article on dating vintage watches. It is purely based on my observations but could help those struggling to understand the Smiths 'system'.

Have fun


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## AVO (Nov 18, 2012)

Great post - thank you! Now, I'm relatively new to Smiths but totally sold on them and would like to build up a little sub-collection.

As a Man of Many Smiths, you can probably answer this (please):

In terms of the different models, what are the principal differences between them...Deluxe, Astral, Everest, Imperial, Astral National...is there a perceived pecking order in terms of quality? :buba:


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## aroma (Dec 11, 2009)

There really is no easy answer to that question - Smiths model range had several conflicts and overlaps. The 18J Breguet overcoil DeLuxe has to be top of the early models and the 16J variant for J W Benson was better than the standard 15J DeLuxe. Some Astrals used the same movement as the DeLuxe but others were cheapened versions of it.

IMHO, the 19J Imperial was far superior to the standard Deluxe. If you wind up an Imperial and then a Deluxe youâ€™ll notice that the Imperial feels so much smoother and it really is a lovely movement. A 19J Imperial in a heavy gold screwback Dennison case is as good as any contemporary watch from Switzerland. Smiths should have ditched the early 15J and 17J movements when the Imperial arrived but they didnâ€™t and they continued with a sometimes baffling array of models.

Everest models are re-badged Imperials or DeLuxe â€" even the 25J automatic Everest was originally an Imperial (the movement is always engraved with the name Imperial).

Personally my ranking would be:- 25J Automatic Imperial/Everest, 18J Breguet overcoil Deluxe, 19J manual Imperial/Everest, 16J j W Benson, 15J/17J DeLuxe, 15J/17J Astral, National 15/17 Astral.

I'm sure others would disagree though

Cheers


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## AVO (Nov 18, 2012)

Thanks for such a comprehensive reply - I love my 15J Astral but see it's not high on your list. The movement is a bit noisy to wind, but I love the loud tick! I'm definitely hoping to build a little Smiths sub-collection so I will squirrel away that info! :buba:


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## Chascomm (Sep 9, 2005)

Another couple of questions on English Smiths:

What years were the 25 jewel automatics produced?

Roughly how many were made?


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## aroma (Dec 11, 2009)

There's no mention of the 25J Automatics before 1961. Initially they were named Imperial as the 25J automatic movement was basically a 19J manual Imperial with an IWC design auto module bolted on to it. The Imperial name was dropped in 1963 and both the automatics and manuals were re-badged as Everest - the auto was still in production as an Everest in 1968. Smiths ceased making their own movements in 1970. I have seen no information on production numbers but their rarity now suggests that they were never as plentiful as the manual version. A 9kt gold automatic was nearly Â£50 in 1964 and quite a premium over say a 9kt Deluxe which retailed at less than Â£20. The average worker would have earned about Â£9 a week then so a gold auto was a good 6 weeks pay - equivalent to about Â£3K now. It was quite a watch then and further evidence that Smiths didn't produce cheap rubbish from their Cheltenham factory.

Cheers


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## Astrohog (Jul 1, 2013)

Is the stainless steel version of the Smiths automatic more collectable than the gold version, or are they both fairly equal ?

Also, was it ever produced in various types of metal cases, other than stainless or gold.


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## Wrist Management (12 mo ago)

Hi, where can I finned the pinned article to which you refer? Thanks in advance.


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## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Wrist Management said:


> Hi, where can I finned the pinned article to which you refer? Thanks in advance.


 That'll be the "Dating Vintage Watches" article pinned at the start of the Vintage Watches section. :biggrin: The post referred to is predictably in 2013.

http://xflive.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?/topic/50202-dating-vintage-watches/&do=embed&comment=831822&embedComment=831822&embedDo=findComment


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