# is a small watch necessarily for a Lady?



## novicetimekeeper (Jul 23, 2015)

I have a collection of clocks but have run out of space so I've more recently been interested in pocket watches.

My first was from my uncle, a 9ct gold one with Garrard on the dial and moon hands (I suppose given it is a watch we should call them breuget)

Then a paircase by the Johnson brothers who worked in Walton on Thames where I grew up, a hunter by Sam Pegler from Blandford ten miles up the road. I have another three for various reasons. (I'm sure more will follow)

I'm still learning about watches, I'm still learning about clocks too, but one thing interests me. I often hear people say these small watches are ladies' watches but are they? I'm sure my paircase isn't and all the others are similar in diameter including my Uncles gold watch which is only slightly bigger. Most of my watches are mid 19th century apart from the pair case and all silver apart from my Uncle's.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

An average size for a Gent's Pocket Watch is about 2 inches or 50 mm diameter, anything much smaller tends to get classified as a Ladies watch, more suitable for slipping into "one's Handbag" - - whether or not this is a fact , well :whistling:

HTH a wee bit


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## novicetimekeeper (Jul 23, 2015)

That's what I thought, that perhaps it is a modern interpretation based on more recent fashion. I have an 18th century paircase that is just as small as some of my later watches which I'm sure was never intended for anybody but a man. My 19th century watches are all a similar size though a later pair case from the mid 19th century is a relative giant in my collection.


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

I own and wear a number of small watches which were made for men but are a size now usually considered more suitable for women, here`s a few examples,,,

*Services HENDON, `FOREIGN MADE` (by Oris Switzerland) cal. 200g 4 Jewels, circa 1937.*



As shown top right in this contemporary Services catalogue...



*Services INDIAN `FOREIGN` (Swiss Made) 15 jewel movement, circa 1937*



Again as show top left in the contemporary catologue..



A couple more, both around 30mm wide excluding crown...

*"Services" SPORTS, `Lumed dial` `GERMAN MADE` circa late 1920s & `Plain dial` `FOREIGN` circa mid 1930s. ( both made by Thiel Bros., Thuringia, Germany).*



Generally I don`t care what size a watch is, if it was designed to be a mans watch & I like it I`ll wear it :biggrin:


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## novicetimekeeper (Jul 23, 2015)

I was thinking pocket watches but that's a fair point too, again a fashion thing. I used to wear a datejust and I purchased a second smaller datejust from my Uncle's estate. That one was a bit small for me but always looked good on his wrist. In the end I had to give in to my eyesight and go for a sub as I could no longer tell the time without either putting my reading glasses on or squinting at the watch for a long time to see which hand was which. It has taken a while for me to get used to wearing half a house brick on my wrist and fortunately current fashion trends make it look like an average sized watch. The good news is I can tell the time at a glance again.

Love the hands on the last one btw, always been my favourite hand style. Have them on my kitchen wall clock and a carriage clock in the sitting room


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## normdiaz (May 5, 2004)

In the area of ladies' watches, the trend, at least in our area, seems to be toward the larger sizes that could easily be worn by a man with less than oversized wrists (or so I've observed). I recently sat in at a church meeting where I happened to be the only male among 5 ladies. Not one was wearing what would normally be considered a ladies' watch.


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

Christopher Ward recently scrapped their dedicated ladies watches and now produce a range of straps for 38mm watches.

My better half uses a timex expedition or Longines hydroconquest (39mm) as her daily wear.


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> I own and wear a number of small watches which were made for men but are a size now usually considered more suitable for women, here`s a few examples,,,
> 
> *Services HENDON, `FOREIGN MADE` (by Oris Switzerland) cal. 200g 4 Jewels, circa 1937.*
> 
> ...


That pretty much sums it up. :thumbsup:


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## novicetimekeeper (Jul 23, 2015)

My question is really about the 19th century or earlier, as I see many watches from this period described as Lady's fob watch and I think that isn't generally the case. My understanding is that ladies sometimes wore them on long leather straps, and also housekeepers would wear them on chatelaines but I don't know when this took place. Staff would have had wall clocks in the servants area in the late 18th and early 19th century, I don't know when watches were kept on chatelaines.


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Sorry about the missunderstanding, I`m not at my best at the moment.


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

I understood the small pocket on the front of denim jeans(possibly other trousers as well) was for safekeeping of a pocket watch.

if my memory serves this was not big enough to accommodate the larger size of pocket watch, there again are these pockets a standard size?


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## novicetimekeeper (Jul 23, 2015)

*mach 0.0013137 I enjoyed looking at your watches, so no worries there.*

*bridgeman I only recently heard that and I agree, only the smallest pocket watches would fit.*

*I would only wear them with a waistcoat I think but even then you would want a slim one not an enormous fat paircase. That was always one of the problems with verge watches that they had to be so thick.*


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## Melville (Jun 17, 2013)

This is definitely a ladies pocket watch.





The purse has an inner pocket that houses the small Swiss top wind watch that can be viewed through an opening in the rear of the purse.

The purse was made by Henry Marshall of the Highbury Leather Works, who is listed in the London and Birmingham Assay Offices as a leather purse and cigar case maker. The silver mounts with Henry Marshall's initials date the purse to 1896. It was retailed by the up market London Company of J.C. Vickery of 181 & 183 Regent Street, London W1.


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## novicetimekeeper (Jul 23, 2015)

Yes that's a ladies watch! I was reading something by David Penney that gave size information about pocket watches, he reckons 35mm and under but usually something about the dial or case too.

My smallest pocket watch has both case and movement signed by J J Stockall of clerkenwell, it is a 35mm watch but I think could still be a mans watch. Quite a masuline design. No dust cover, perhaps it was just too small!


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## novicetimekeeper (Jul 23, 2015)

pics


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## Melville (Jun 17, 2013)

Originally the denim fabric was a type of serge that was made in France, and was named after the town where it was produced - Nimes. It became known as Serge de Nimes. Which, over the years became Serge de Nim.........denim.

Denims were introduced in the 1860s by Levi Strauss, but although the material was very tough the seams proved to be the weak point.

Jacob Davis, a customer of Levi Strauss came up with the idea of strengthening the seams at the weak points with copper rivets and they went into partnership producing jeans.

The word 'Jeans' is derived from the French words 'Bleu de Genes' ( Blue of Genoa) the original blue dye.

Strauss introduced the 5th pocket, located in the right hand front pocket around the start of the 1900s. The pocket was designed to hold a full size pocket watch which at that time could measure up to 60mm.

A classic pair of Levi 501s still have a 5th pocket that houses a large size 18 size American pocket watch.


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## bill love (Mar 14, 2006)

^ Well I didn't know that, but I do now want! :biggrin:

cheers

b


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## novicetimekeeper (Jul 23, 2015)

finally worked out how to load pics.


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## hartley353 (Nov 8, 2013)

With size comes weight, many gentlemen preferred a smaller lighter pocket watch, and manufacturers obliged. It is difficult to call a watch a ladies even if it has flowers painted on it.


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## novicetimekeeper (Jul 23, 2015)

Yes, I agree, it is true about the flowers as well, I think the whole masculine thing is a rather later construct. Fashions and opinions change, diamonds were once considered too masculine for ladies I believe.


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## Melville (Jun 17, 2013)

From the late 19th century all the American Watch Companies certainly made ladies watches. Generally the most interesting aspect of these watches is that they were regarded mainly as pieces of jewellery. There were decorative dials and ornate cases, but they usually housed lower grade movements. These watches are quite common. They are mainly collected for their cases.

Some movements are of a much higher grade and were housed in beautifully engraved solid gold cases. Plus because they were rarely used, the cases are very often in pristine condition.

This watch that I have is a 6 size 'Lady Waltham' Grade with 16 jewels in screwed gold settings and with a micrometric regulator. The hunter case is 14K solid gold.

The other major American Companies such as Elgin, Hamilton and Illinois also made ladies watches.


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## novicetimekeeper (Jul 23, 2015)

That's quite something isn't it? Bit bling for me but looks lovely.

My question was because I see a lot of warches described as lady's watches and I think the vendors are often saying that just because the watch is a small size.

I can see that there was a market for Lady's watches, but I think there was also a market for small men's watches. Either way I buy things I like but I was just wondering about some of the descriptions people use and whether or not they were correct.

I find trying to confirm or disprove vendors descriptions is quite a qwick way to learn!

Nick


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