# Watches From India



## Robert (Jul 26, 2006)

I've noticed recently that there are a lot of vintage watches coming from India.

I bought one, really for curiousity, for Â£23 to see what its like. An extract from the auction is

Crystal : New Acrylic

Dial : Refinished in WHITE Colour

Crown : Replaced

Condition : Excellent (READY TO WEAR) (See pictures of actual watch)

Original case and Original Movement - Authentic Vintage Watch,

There are also some with, ermm, extreme coloured dials - sort of turqoise or pink - which they say are refinished dials but I don't know if they are refinished in the original colours.

Anyone any experience of these sellers/watches? Will I be disappointed for Â£23?


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## pugster (Nov 22, 2004)

ive seen loads of these over the last few years ,some of the colours they choose are a downright joke (and on good brands







) ,for Â£23 i'd say you cant go wrong tho







,at least its not bright pink


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## Sparky (Nov 2, 2005)

I bought one of these over a year ago and I have to say that I am very impressed. The quality of the refinishing is really good, and yes before anyone asks I do like the colour. The watch runs really well and for the price I paid Â£15 it was a bargain!

Hope yours is as nice as mine!










Cheers

Mark


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## Ventura (Nov 27, 2006)

India has a huge market for jewellery and watches. many of the Swiss brands actively market there. Especially Tag and Omega. Many of the places that you buy from Ebay have people trained in Swiss watchmaking stuff. Also remember Titan is one of the largest watch making companies in the world.


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## James (Jul 17, 2006)

A buddy of mine is from Dubai, he trips there regularly brings pieces back and ebays them under two different sellers. It seems to be a good source for him as pieces come cheap


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## chris l (Aug 5, 2005)

You may be lucky - I wasn't.

I bought a Fabre Leuba Sea King, 'refinished' & 'polished'...

The dial appeared to have been painted with Humbrol and a 2 inch brush, the case had been 'polished' so enthusiastically that it had a _hole _in the side. Oh, yes, and the movement was filthy dirty, and stopped after a week.

3 emails. No reply. Don't bother. There are better deals elsewhere.


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## Robert (Jul 26, 2006)

Sparky said:


> and yes before anyone asks I do like the colour. The watch runs really well and for the price I paid Â£15 it was a bargain!
> 
> Hope yours is as nice as mine!


Oops, hope I didn't offend you when I mentioned the turqoise ones. Again, no offence but I hope mine's nicer
















What a bargain though at Â£15.



Ventura said:


> Many of the places that you buy from Ebay have people trained in Swiss watchmaking stuff.


I'd heard that and was hoping it was true. But Chris's experience suggests you pays your money, you takes your chances



chris l said:


> The dial appeared to have been painted with Humbrol and a 2 inch brush


That was what I feared.

Just need to wait and see what I get. How long did you guys have to wait for delivery?


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## Sparky (Nov 2, 2005)

If I remember correctly it was about 2 weeks

Cheers

Mark


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## strange_too (Feb 19, 2007)

I've seen a few Omega's, but the refinished dials have always put me off. I don't want to have to redial something I've just bought, unless it was a project watch.


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## Chascomm (Sep 9, 2005)

Robert said:


> I've noticed recently that there are a lot of vintage watches coming from India.
> 
> I bought one, really for curiousity, for Â£23 to see what its like. An extract from the auction is
> 
> ...


How do you tell the difference between a vintage HMT and a new HMT? That one looks like a recent model. Since they haven't changed mechanically for several decades, there would not be much point in 'refinishing' the dial when you can get a near new watch that looks the same. Of course if you want it with a dial that says 'Patek Phillipe', that's a different matter.

I wonder if these watches appearing on ebay is a side-effect of Titan's trade-in scheme? Titan offered to accept watches of any brand _in any condition_ as a part trade-in on a new Titan quartz. Since most Indians wear HMT mechanicals (which last forever but look 'old fashioned'), this was clearly a scam aimed at taking HMT off the streets, and indirectly running all the millions of watch repairers out of business, thus making it hard for the remaining HMT owners who didn't trade in. Maybe somebody in Titan has been lifting some of the trade-ins on the way to the scrap yard.


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## Robert (Jul 26, 2006)

Chascomm said:


> How do you tell the difference between a vintage HMT and a new HMT? That one looks like a recent model.


Well its arrived and it doesn't look very old to me. The sides have a brushed finish and the top is polished. Would a military watch have two different finishes?

The dial and hands also look good.










The numbering on the back doesn't look perfect but I don't know if it should - any thoughts? Are these numbers correct?


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## pugster (Nov 22, 2004)

not for the faint hearted fleabay no 160095594199


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Fek!!









Why Purple?? :wanker:

By the way Robert, your HMT looks great


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

*"Excellent condition movement" ?*


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

I have a couple of HMT watches, both bought from UK based ebay sellers.

*HMT Jawan W10, 17 Jewels, made in India by Hindustan Machine Tools Ltd c1960`s/70`s (?)*










*HMT Kohinoor, 17 Jewels, made in India by Hindustan Machine Tools Ltd. c.1960s/70s ?*










The HMT 17 jewel movement is made under licence from Citizen...

*Citizen 1800 series & HMT 17 Jewel manual wind movements, c1960`s/70`s*










Regarding the back my `W10` has the following engraved on it...

a broadarrow (narrower & finer then on the one shown above)

*W10/6645-000035*

GC- 15569

0214033

I`ve seen a number of another version like this (from UK & USA based sellers)










and this type without the_ `Jawan`_ name but with a broadarrow on the dial instead, they always seem extremely clean









The only white dial versions like the one above I`ve seen always seem to come from sellers based in India

BTW HMT International still list a watch similar in design to the W10 called the Pilot...










I contacted them last year about it and the new price was equivalent to approx Â£10


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## Robert (Jul 26, 2006)

jasonm said:


> By the way Robert, your HMT looks great


It does look good but my (ex-cammy) RLT15 arrived at the same time and it looks better


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## Robert (Jul 26, 2006)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> I contacted them last year about it and the new price was equivalent to approx Â£10


Mach, I didn't realise there was so much choice of indian watches. I really like the 'pilot' especially for Â£10.

My HMT has the same movement as one of yours - the HMT 17J. I wonder if that dates mine to 60's/70's. Although this particular movement may have been used for a while.....


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Robert said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> > I contacted them last year about it and the new price was equivalent to approx Â£10
> ...


AFAIK they still use the same movement









I think their automatic models also use a Miyota movement made under licence









BTW if you do a google for HMT Janata you`ll find a couple of reviews of this model 

Note you have to scrawl down the `Something A little Different` review as it includes other watches


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## ujjwaldey (Mar 3, 2008)

The HMT shown in the first post is almost certainly fake. HMT has never produced watches with arrowhead; and all their watches had the name of the model on the watchface.

The other ones shown are original

Jawan = soldier in the army

Kohinoor = the diamond

Pilot , as in english

All the names had very Indian association ( the days of autarkik nationalism in India) and were in some way things of national pride

I have to say. the watches were pretty reliabe ( had 2 of them when I was a kid) and solid built, if not very finely crafted.

Hoping to look for one the next time I am there


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## Robert (Jul 26, 2006)

ujjwaldey said:


> The HMT shown in the first post is almost certainly fake.


So you're saying my Â£23 has been wasted on a fake









You could've let me down gently


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

I suspected the broadarrow ones were redials but couldn`t be sure, HMT Jawans also occasionally appear on Ebay which look too sharp if you get my drift










BTW, I`ve added these two to my HMT collection since my last post









*HMT `Kohinoor`*










* HMT `Akash`*


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Oops, I forgot about this one









*HMT `Janata` *










The dial is grubby but I don`t mind









Here`s a photo of Chris`s one in somewhat better condition


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## Stuart Davies (Jan 13, 2008)

Go on Mach show 'em your latest acquisition 

Hope you manged to change that hour hand BTW - the end looks as if it was cut with nail-clippers


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Stuart Davies said:


> Go on Mach show 'em your latest acquisition
> 
> Hope you manged to change that hour hand BTW - the end looks as if it was cut with nail-clippers


You really didn`t like it did you Stu?









& no I won`t show the Favre-Leuba here as although it was `altered` in India it wasn`t actually made there 

As for the hour hand, I didn`t notice


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## ujjwaldey (Mar 3, 2008)

Sorry Robert; my apologies.

The Kohinoor, and the Janata with grubby dial are good peices. W Janata = people ; i.e watch for the masses , kind of like volkswagen. It was the cheapest watch then; usually one's first watch)

The other Janata, at least the face, looks a bit dodgy. Notice its written : India Made. That is a bit unusual. HMT wrote Made in India.

The Akash, I am wondering. Seems to colourful for an HMT - may be a much later model.


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> I suspected the broadarrow ones were redials but couldn`t be sure, HMT Jawans also occasionally appear on Ebay which look too sharp if you get my drift
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congrats

Like these Mach .......... bollocks must be ill agreeing with Mach









Did you but them directly from HMT?


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

USEDMODEL said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> > I suspected the broadarrow ones were redials but couldn`t be sure, HMT Jawans also occasionally appear on Ebay which look too sharp if you get my drift
> ...


Finally coming to your senses Roy?









I got both off ebay


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

No, just ill but I will get better !!!

Anyone can have an off day.


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## johnbaz (Jan 30, 2005)

here are my hmt, i have another one somewhere but don't have a clue where


















john


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## w.h.s (Mar 1, 2008)

i like the hmt watches, and have read up on them and been to their website, a connection with citizen scince 50's is correct. I want a pilot but have yet to find an ebay seller for that new. As for the indian ebay seller i dont know why he doesnt sell there current line i think or thought that may were re dialled second hand indian models priced more than the new article. Having spent Â£20 on an old precista gold plated manual wind i quite understand the appeal, however i am holding out for a Â£10 pilot as i sall buy 2 , there are some autos as well but none as classicly styled as the pilot more 70's dressy. I do like your one however even if the phaeon is an artistic after addition.


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## LeeKaye (Jun 3, 2011)

Just found this thread as I was going to ask a question re: the bay and Indian watches.

After doing a lot of looking around I nearly pulled the trigger and bought a couple, but have been very cautious as I was not sure what would turn up. So I won an auction for 18 pounds and that is on it's way to me. I am testing the water without losing too much. I have seen several at 80-100 that I really liked, but that's a gamble too far I think. I will let people know the results if they are interested.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

I've had a couple of "re-dials" from India and the quality does vary somewwhat - hard to say - but all you can do is look for a good photo. As far as HMT are concerned, they are good affordables, albeit a tad old-fashioned, again I have a couple of originals and no probs. I like them TBH, but not the re-dials so much! ldman:

:weed:


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## alg59 (Mar 4, 2011)

i bought a west end watch company auto which kept stopping. they asked me to send it back and it would be looked at. when it was returned to me it kept stopping as before. i must admit i was impressed when they sent me another watch and told me just to keep the first one. all this for 30 quid which i didn't thing was bad. they replied to my e-mails quickly and sent watches quickly. the second watch by the way is still going strong. just your luck i expect!!


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