# Help With Timex Quartz (Balance Wheel Type)



## rdwiow

Calling all Timex gurus...does anyone have any technical info on how to set up these early quartz watches.

I have been given one, but the balance keeps over banking and hence gaining like mad. There appears two adjustments available, a variable resistor on the PCB substrate and what would be the hairspring regulator in a conventional watch. I have resisted the urge to adjust these until talking to you guys;-)

Any light shed on this would be great

Cheers

Rob


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## Silver Hawk

Snap  .

Got one here doing exactly the same thing Rob...and this is after a full service and with a replacement (not new) circuit board. I'm assuming it is a problem with my board (which does not look like the one in the image below) and I'm now looking for another one.

Cal. 63? Like below?


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## mel

Try "Service Bulletins" on the Timex Forum "Manuals and Catalogs" pages. The bulletins for regulating are in 103A and 106 for the #62 and #63 movements respectively. There's also some (not much  ) insight into the relationship between the amplitude and the resistance adjust :yes:

My only (personal) thought is that if the variable resistor has been sat in that same position for many years since new, and it's of an open printed track type from the looks of it, you could have a problem with the resistance values at that point in the track, possibly even open circuit. I've not enough knowledge to know if that would produce the results you guys are getting, or if it's an extremely high resistance producing those results.

In the past (big sized radio stuff) I've had success in "moving" the value of the variable resistor by tacking a suitable fixed resistor across in parallel thus meaning the wiper ends up in a different position on the track to produce the required actual value. I think this would not be practical in the Timex units :sadwalk:

Also interesting, the advice to (Don't try this at home) avoid a high intensity light whilst adjusting, is there a light sensitive diode or similar SSD in there somewhere?

EDIT:_ additional thought, if you could get the wiper arm off, and clean the contacts of any gunge from the trak(s), that might help, but it would be very tricky at that size, I've just looked at one under the loupe 

:weed: ldman:


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## rdwiow

Thanks for your thoughts gents.

I will have a look on the Timex forum and see if it helps me out.

Many thanks again

Rob


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## mel

Actually, more though, when we messed about moving value, sometimes we used to tack a resistor in parallel, sometimes in series depending on if the pot was log or lin, ISTR it was series on a lin and parallel on a log - - but - - it was all a long time ago now ldman:

Another trick we used was to move the wiper and create a new bit of track with a pencil over where the wiper had sat - - Oh! the joyous fun we had in the Radio Rooms keeping stuff going on a shoestring and a packet of crisps for lunch and four feet of snow outside on the top of a hill with the Landy sitting in the lee with the engine running for a heat and a quick getaway :lol:








:weed:


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## rdwiow

Silver Hawk said:


> Snap  .
> 
> Got one here doing exactly the same thing Rob...and this is after a full service and with a replacement (not new) circuit board. I'm assuming it is a problem with my board (which does not look like the one in the image below) and I'm now looking for another one.
> 
> Cal. 63? Like below?


Yes Paul

Mine is the same model.

I have just swapped the ceramic PCB with a later type PCB, and it is doing exactly the same?

Strange one

Cheers

Rob


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## mel

Paul - the consensus of opinion is that a #64 is simply a #63 with perhaps  different component values on the PCB. At the moment, no one has a movement specific bulletin or manual for a #64, TG has posted a #64 movement picture on the Timex forum looking pretty much exactly the same as yours, but I notice the regulator and var res adjust are way out compared with the picture you posted - of course that movement (TG's post) may or may not be working, he sourced it "who knows where" some time ago.


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## rdwiow

Hi Mel

The adjuster and v res on mine are way different to Pauls also.

Cheers

Rob


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## mel

On the Ticka forum, there's a belief that these will run without the PCB in position at all, but this may be an urban legend (like myself :lol: ), and a further belief is that's how you get the amplitude right. Mind you, it's all hearsay, and no one actually admits to having done this.

Sitting on the sidelines as I do with Electrics, there's a certain logic in this - - I reason that if the watch *will* run without the PCB, then the balance amplitude can surely be checked and adjusted as for a normal mechanical? NO?/YES? 270deg as quoted, and the PCB is then there to fine regulate the timekeeping even further for accuracy? [i was always a good foremanperson, te3ll the workers what to do and let 'em get on with it, right or wrong]

If any more comes in to me, I will let you know.

The Sequined Avenger

:weed: ldman:


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## rdwiow

Thanks Mel

I will try it with the PCB removed and see if it runs, but i am assuming not? They may just bridge the connections to make it run, it would just be like the Electric version then and regulated via the hairspring.

Cheers

Rob


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## rdwiow

rdwiow said:


> Thanks Mel
> 
> I will try it with the PCB removed and see if it runs, but i am assuming not? They may just bridge the connections to make it run, it would just be like the Electric version then and regulated via the hairspring.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Rob


A follow up....the watch will not run without the PCB in place...as we expected really, but it will run with the PCB connection points joined, but the balance over banks, so it would never be viable or able to be regulated.

Cheers

Rob


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## Silver Hawk

I'm going to try a second PCB in mine today...I'll report back.


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## mel

rdwiow said:


> rdwiow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Mel
> 
> I will try it with the PCB removed and see if it runs, but i am assuming not? They may just bridge the connections to make it run, it would just be like the Electric version then and regulated via the hairspring.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Rob
> 
> 
> 
> A follow up....the watch will not run without the PCB in place...as we expected really, but it will run with the PCB connection points joined, but the balance over banks, so it would never be viable or able to be regulated.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Rob
Click to expand...

Maybe, just maybe, this is pointing to a part of the problem. If the watch is overbanking with the PCB in place, *and also* without, but the PCB connections joined - - then does that indicate a PCB that has a short somewhere's and is equivalent to shorting the two PCB connections? :to_become_senile:

Substitution of a known working PCB from a working donor watch and/or vice versa looks like the only answer - stuff the "duff" PCB into a working donor and see if that then overbanks? :dontgetit:

The PCB is a very early surface mount item, if you had the patience, the right tools and knew what the components were, it's probably just about repairable, but of course not economically viable commercially. (Oh!, and much better eyesight than I have at my age ldman: )


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## rdwiow

mel said:


> rdwiow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdwiow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Mel
> 
> I will try it with the PCB removed and see if it runs, but i am assuming not? They may just bridge the connections to make it run, it would just be like the Electric version then and regulated via the hairspring.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Rob
> 
> 
> 
> A follow up....the watch will not run without the PCB in place...as we expected really, but it will run with the PCB connection points joined, but the balance over banks, so it would never be viable or able to be regulated.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Rob
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe, just maybe, this is pointing to a part of the problem. If the watch is overbanking with the PCB in place, *and also* without, but the PCB connections joined - - then does that indicate a PCB that has a short somewhere's and is equivalent to shorting the two PCB connections? :to_become_senile:
> 
> Substitution of a known working PCB from a working donor watch and/or vice versa looks like the only answer - stuff the "duff" PCB into a working donor and see if that then overbanks? :dontgetit:
> 
> The PCB is a very early surface mount item, if you had the patience, the right tools and knew what the components were, it's probably just about repairable, but of course not economically viable commercially. (Oh!, and much better eyesight than I have at my age ldman: )
Click to expand...

I have tried another PCB, (it is not a known good one though) this does exactly the same thing?

I think i will have to keep a a look out for another maybe.

Cheers

Rob


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## Silver Hawk

Rob, did you sort yours out? :huh:

Finally got mine running correctly. I had initially thought it must be something to do with either the circuit board or the contact system (wire and pin). I checked the contact wire several times for correct alignment and oil contamination but it never made any difference.

It turned out to be the setting of the hairspring regulator; mine was hard over to the slow position. On a quartz controlled balance wheel, this regulator doesn't do much...unless it is way out...like mine was. In the slowest position, the circuit tried to make the balance run faster and faster resulting in over banking...and then it would slow right down again...and then repeat by running faster and faster again. The cycle took about 5 seconds and you could quite clearly hear it speeding up etc.

Cure was simple; just moved the regulator into the half way position...the quartz circuit could then quite happily regulate minor adjustments within this more normal range.


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## mel

A-herrm! (clears throat), I did point this out November 29th - the difference in the regulator and var res positions on the only photo vaialable from the Timex Forum 

However, glad you've sorted this one Paul, maybe Rob's will get sorted next? Useful info. :yes:


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## Silver Hawk

mel said:


> A-herrm! (clears throat), I did point this out November 29th - the difference in the regulator and var res positions on the only photo vaialable from the Timex Forum


Sorry Mel....I saw all your info about adjusting the pot on the PCD but missed the bit about the regulator...I had better RTFM.

BTW:



mel said:


> On the Ticka forum, there's a belief that these will run without the PCB in position at all


They will run...provided you run a wire between the two supporting posts for the PCB --- I tried it a few days ago in desperation. Then it becomes a Cal. 40.


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## rdwiow

Et Al

I have mine running ok now, it seems to have sorted itself out???

I will continue to monitor its performance.

I thought i had a donor coming from SC, but the 'seller' has gone quiet since i provided my address etc :down:

Cheers gents

Rob


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## Paul H.

I have a '77 q with a 64 mov't. It does not have the adjuster on the right side of the board but instead a wheel that does not seem to move.

Paul


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## Paul H.

Paul H. said:


> I have a '77 q with a 64 mov't. It does not have the adjuster on the right side of the board but instead a wheel that does not seem to move.
> 
> Paul


64 Mov't Pic (not mine but same)


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## Silver Hawk

Paul H. said:


> Paul H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a '77 q with a 64 mov't. It does not have the adjuster on the right side of the board but instead a wheel that does not seem to move.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> 
> 64 Mov't Pic (not mine but same)
Click to expand...

I've got a few with PCBs in that style. The trimmer is probably seized; I wouldn't force it...the Omega Megaquartz has a similar one and that doesn't like to be disturbed :no:.


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## Paul H.

64 Mov't Pic (not mine but same)


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## Paul H.

Well I thought I had it by regulating like a 40 mov't but after a few days it is back running 5+ min fast - that small wheel must so something - back to the drawing board to see if I can get it to move

Cheers Paul


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## mel

Paul (both of you :lol is it a trimpot or a varicap? - that is, is it a variable resistance or a variable capacitor. A varicap *MAY* free off with a wee tiny teeny weeny dab of switch cleaner on a stick, whereas a trimpot will strip the carbon track if you try too much switch cleaner! :yes:

From the piccie it could be either, but it's small to be a varicap, helluva small.


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## Paul H.

mel said:


> Paul (both of you :lol is it a trimpot or a varicap? - that is, is it a variable resistance or a variable capacitor. A varicap *MAY* free off with a wee tiny teeny weeny dab of switch cleaner on a stick, whereas a trimpot will strip the carbon track if you try too much switch cleaner! :yes:
> 
> From the piccie it could be either, but it's small to be a varicap, helluva small.


Sorry Mel - don't know a trim from a vari 

Will wait till I get a bit brave and try your switch cleaner - thanks / Cheers Paul - Canada :thumbsup:


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## rdwiow

mel said:


> Paul (both of you :lol is it a trimpot or a varicap? - that is, is it a variable resistance or a variable capacitor. A varicap *MAY* free off with a wee tiny teeny weeny dab of switch cleaner on a stick, whereas a trimpot will strip the carbon track if you try too much switch cleaner! :yes:
> 
> From the piccie it could be either, but it's small to be a varicap, helluva small.


I'm with you Mel, from the pic it looks to be a varicap.


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## uhrenbastler

Hi,

sorry for digging out this old thread, but I've also got big problems with an old balance quartz watch by Timex (caliber M64)

No matter how I adjust the variable resistor on the PCB and no matter, how I adjust the hairspring regulator, the watch always loses 21 seconds per day. Absolutely stable 

Does anyone have an idea, what I could here?

Thank you very much

Christoph


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