# Renard Watches: A Bit Foxed



## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

The family name of "Renard" sounds like it ought to be from a classic Swiss watch company with heritage, but it seems that the three watch brands bearing the Renard name are all modern creations, with all of them revealing little about their respective manufacturers, and being somewhat puzzling.

Firstly, we have a very new watch company entitled "Renard Watches" and we are told on their website that the name "Renard", when translated into English, means "fox", and furthermore we are informed that the fox "is a graceful, wild and alluring creature, which the Celts believed to be a guide and is seen as a sign for longevity in Japan. Therefore, this animal perfectly embodies the spirit of our collection of watches." As if to emphasise the "foxy" relationship, the watches are not only branded on the dial with the company name, but also have a stylised fox head above the lettering. At the bottom of the dial of Renard watches is the legend, "DEPUIS MMXIV".

Three Renard wristwatches from the Elite Collection, 2015. All quartz with 35.5mm cases (pic from understandmag.com):









Unfortunately, the above information is just about all you will get from Renard Watches about their company story. What is perhaps slightly odd is that the company stockists listed are all in Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Canada and Japan - none in France or Switzerland, or the UK. In connection with the actual watches, Renard is a bit more forthcoming, yet when I read this bit of info, I feel that I have heard it all before, and keep hearing the same sort of message from a number of rather new watch companies branding and selling the same sort of classically styled, simple, heritage-look watches taking inspiration from the 1960s and 1970s. The Renard watches are all quartz-powered and simple three-hand examples, with materials such as stainless steel, leather and mineral glass being used. Water resistance is 3 atm for the watches. I would say that the watches are quite pleasant dress-type pieces but not inspiring and with a limited range. Perhaps, in the future, Renard Watches will up the ante and produce some more interesting and varied watches.

So, one down and two to go. The second emanation of the Renard name in terms of watches came and went without making any real waves in the watch world. This was the brand name, Louis Renard, which was filed as a trademark for watches by the Pan American Diamond Corporation on 27 March 1985. This brand name did indeed appear on a number of watches, and a number of gold and diamond Louis Renard watches appear on various sales websites. Louis Renard watches used Swiss ETA quartz movements, and the legend "SWISS MADE" also appears on some of the dials. Nevertheless, I am not sure if all Louis Renard watches were Swiss made, and no indication is given as to the jewellery manufacturer who put these watches together. Louis Renard as a watch brand seems to have died out quite quickly, as the Louis Renard trademark had become defunct sometime before 2006, and I have no more information about the company and the quality or origins of its watches to hand.

Louis Renard 14 carat gold and diamond watch, priced on Etsy for £677 pre-owned - has a Swiss ETA quartz movement (pic from etsy.com):










Louis Renard gold and diamond watch, marked "SWISS MADE" (pic from pinterest.com):










The third Renard watch connection is perhaps a bit more interesting than the other two even if the watches from this third Renard brand are somewhat insalubrious. Oh well, you all know my habit of picking up odd and dubious watches, and finding out all I can about them. In the case of this Renard, Eugene Renard, the brand seems to have come and gone rather quickly, in some ways like the Louis Renard watch brand. I myself came across Eugene Renard watches almost by chance. When my watch dealing friend Stuart died recently, his son suggested that I might like to choose a watch from Stuart's remaining stock on his stall in an Eastbourne antiques/collectibles market. When I was able to get into the town and look at what remained of Stuart's stock, I discovered that there was nothing of consequence left, but I did spot a stainless steel chronograph watch with a Swiss quartz movement and so decided to take that watch as my memento. In fact, I had never bought a chrono from Stuart, so I thought it was a fitting watch to choose. The watch was, in fact, a Eugene Renard chronograph, with a black and silver dial and Swiss movement. It is actually quite a well-made and substantial watch - all stainless steel and with a mineral glass crystal. It has a proper chrono movement and date window, with the only odd feature being duplication of the date in the bottom subdial. Stuart had priced it at £75.

Eugene Renard stainless steel sports chronograph identical to my own (pic from Gumtree.com):










It would seem that this watch model is still around, as I have encountered it for sale on ebay and one or two other sites, usually (like mine) in brand new condition but also pre-owned. Other Eugene Renard watches also turn up on the web for sale, but as to the question of who made watches of this brand, this is a foxing mystery. What I can tell you is the there was a Eugene Renard website (the location of which was Germany) and also a catalogue, and as catalogued the watches were not cheap. The only link to a possible manufacturer comes through a firm titled, "P.T.S. Enterprises", or more fully, "P.T.S. Enterprises Limited, a private limited company incorporated in early 2009 and finally wound up in 2013, having been inactive since about the end of 2011 with liabilities owing. Unfortunately, P.T.S. Enterprises is a bit of a mystery firm, and needs to be distinguished from other companies of the same name. The company we are concerned with had an address in East London - an address which was shared by a number of (unrelated) firms - and it would seem that P.T.S. Enterprises Ltd. was a very small concern - certainly not a major watch producer/manufacturer. Nevertheless, it is directly connected to the later period of Eugene Renard watch production and marketing, but where the watches were actually made and by whom is something of a mystery. In fact, Eugene Renard watches go back a bit further in time than P.T.S. Enterprises and we have a fascinating source providing some enlightenment on Eugene Renard watches prior to 2009.

In 2007, on the Poker Network forum noticeboard, an Australian jeweller posted a rant about Eugene Renard watches. I quote (verbatim, without corrections), ..."these watches are made by a bogus manufacturer and certainly are not valued @$2500 they would be lucky to be worth $100. These watches have been known as fraudulent in the uk for many years and are not swiss made they are made in china yes they look expensive but a cheap pieces of ****." After having a laugh that a couple of Eugene watches were being offered as prizes in a poker tournament, the unnamed author goes on the say, "I am from the uk and this skam had been happening for years over there as this is where the skam originated. They even set up a website which has not been updated since 2004 and the watches have remained the same for 4 years.link below now does this site look like a world wide company who sells watches at $2500??"

The irate English jeweller and poker player is followed directly on the noticeboard by another warning about the bogus marketing of Eugene Renard watches - this time in more measured tones. In this case, the scam occurred in England, where a well-heeled "gentleman" was offering Eugene Renard watches, using a clever speel and a catalogue to back up his claims about the watches. One student was fooled into buying a Eugene Renard watch for £160 which the seller claimed was worth £900, and superficially, the watch looked a good bet as it came in a nice black lacquered box complete with guarantee and mini-tool kit. On checking the "facts" given by the seller, it was clear that he had been scamming the students.

Rather convincing "luxury" Eugene Renard watch packaging (pic from swapz.co.uk):










So, what about my own Eugene Renard watch. Well, the truth is that when you remove all the scamming and ludicrously high values attributed by unscrupulous salespeople, the Eugene Renard chronograph I got from my dear friend Stuart isn't actually a bad watch. My view is backed up by Andre28, a respondent on the Poker Network forum, who said (and I quote exactly), "yep, i agree, they are obviously not worth what they are advertised for, but everyone should know this, as why would anyone be selling them new for such a tiny fraction of the price?you can't actually buy them anywhere for that RRP anyway. That said, the stainless steel silver one does look good, is quite heavy, has a working chronograph and is probably of better quality than imitation tags etc that you would pay $200 or so for on the internet. I wouldn't pay anywhere near $400 for them, but for $100 i would probably buy one and where it until it breaks." Just as well I was given my Eugene Renard chronograph for free then.

Blue-faced Eugene Renard quartz wristwatch (pic from ebay.com):










I hope you have found this topic as interesting as I have in researching anwriting it. It doesn't look as though I shall be buying ANY watch branded with the family name of Renard, though if a member does know of any other "Renard" watchmakers or companies whose name appears on watches and clocks then I would love to hear about them.


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## Foxdog (Apr 13, 2011)

Nice work but personally, I wouldn't like a 'foxy' watch that wasn't spell Reynard, it just doesn' t look right without the 'y'.

:fox:


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2015)

no doubt chinese, the specs of new watches tell a story, when you get a 3atm rating that says it all for me, unforgivable these days IMO


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## dobra (Aug 20, 2009)

I used to go to school with a boy called Reynard. Guess what - he was called Foxy! His father was French. Like the LOOK of the first three, but pass on the rest. Good research though.

Mike


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Thanks folks - yes, I do remember good old "Reynard the Fox" now I come to think of it. And sorry about associating your moniker with certain dubious watches dear Foxdog, as I do like your forum name. Interesting comment Bruce about the lack of WR on watches being indicative of a Chinese origin and it is something I do look out for myself when it comes to watches that purport to be something more than they are. Mind you, I was surprised the other day to discover that the stainless steel Longines Oposition chronograph watch, which is essentially an early 2000s model and contains a good 27-jewel Longines-modified quartz ETA movement, is rated at only 3 atm WR.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2015)

> Thanks folks - yes, I do remember good old "Reynard the Fox" now I come to think of it. And sorry about associating your moniker with certain dubious watches dear Foxdog, as I do like your forum name. Interesting comment Bruce about the lack of WR on watches being indicative of a Chinese origin and it is something I do look out for myself when it comes to watches that purport to be something more than they are. Mind you, I was surprised the other day to discover that the stainless steel Longines Oposition chronograph watch, which is essentially an early 2000s model and contains a good 27-jewel Longines-modified quartz ETA movement, is rated at only 3 atm WR.


 water resistance is always a bit of a bug bear for me, its not difficult or expensive to produce a watch decent water resistance these days, it just seems like penny pinching with some makers


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Thanks Bruce - I'm a bit like you when it comes to my feelings about water resistance. I have also noticed a marked disparity in some cases bewteen stated WR and the actual WR when wearing the watch. Sometimes a watch will allow ingress of moisture in spite of having a reasonably stated water resistance and, on the other hand, other companies - usually on the more reputable end of the spectrum - produce watches that are surprisingly resistant to water, even though the claimed WR is relatively low. I know about the drawbacks in the system used to measure and rate the WR of watches, and it might be better to have a more "dynamic" and reality-based system of water resistance rating.


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## Dave955i (Apr 5, 2016)

Hello

just like to introduce myself and add a couple of comments regarding the Eugene renard watch.

My name is Dave and I have recently began to read about and collect watches.

Regarding the Eugene renard watch, I have owned the steel chronograph for 18 months and it is very reliable and fairly accurate (approx +/- 8 seconds a month).

From new , they had 5 year warranty with a P O Box number if any service was needed.

I believe the company closed in 2011 ( mine was new in August 2008 ). I had the watch checked by my local jeweller and he stated that the watch was well put together with a gold plated Swiss ISA 8161/202 3 Jewel movement. I also managed to check their old website and it had a retail price of £845.00 ( I paid £120.00 ) .

my watch Collection includes a Grand Seiko 9F Quartz watch which is superbly finished and at the moment is accurate to +/- 4 seconds a year.

Dave


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

A good read Honour ....thanks :thumbsup:


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## dobra (Aug 20, 2009)

Welcome to the Watch Forum Dave, and good news about your watch, both for accuracy and build quality. Join in the fun!

Mike


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## gimli (Mar 24, 2016)

For those not very familiar with recent (5-10 years) developments in the watch industry I'd like to chime in a little.

For a few years now there has been a surge of chinese watch "makers" that create brand names that sound french/swiss or german.

The watches seem like being of high quality (and they are to some extent), look great and perhaps the most interesting factor to decide their sales, have a huge price in comparison to what they're worth.

Someone asked me about this brand that I had never heard of before which had a germanic name and looked pretty interesting. A quick google determined that the watch was indeed being sold for over 400$ on amazon, new, but luckily I also managed to find some forum postings which proved that that brand was actually nothing more than just a bunch of chinese companies trying to sell a watch for what it is not.


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## Max Outlet (Jun 23, 2017)

Well this is what Renard's online terms say about the origin, obviously they instigated their own laws!;

These Terms and Conditions and any separate agreements whereby we provide you Services shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of RENARD, Marknesserweg 1-C, 8302 GN Emmeloord, in the Netherlands.


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