# My New Addition - Vostok Amphibia!!



## Mr Bee

After trading with a member on here (HHHH) I got my first Russian today, a vintage Vostok Amphibia.

Its the blue faced version, with diver, and all cryllic lettering. Howard tells me its from the 60's so its in quite good order for its age, with obviously inevitable light cosmetic marks, but that really doesn't me, and it adds to the character of it being an old vintage one. I'm loving this watch at the moment, really like it. I think I'll be wearing this for the next week or so :tongue2:

Here's some pics:














































Looking inside, its the standard amphibia 2416B automatic movement with 21 jewels, and is stamped "SU" for Soviet Union...... so definately pre-1991 does that mean?

The serial number (I think thats what it is) on the case back is 115118, but I cant find any reference to this on the net, it seems to imply there should be a zero in the first or second position. Does anyone have any info on what this refers to?

I'd just like any sort of general info anyone could tell me about this watch, is there any way I can find out the actual date, or year it was made? is the blue face or black face diver rarer than the other? Was this actually issued to military personnel, or was it just a military style sold to the public?

As it has a diver on it, does that mean this (or at least the real military issue if this is not one) was used by the Navy, as opposed to the Army?

Also I cant decide wether to keep the Di Modell black double ridged leather strap it came on, or swap that to another watch - but what would be fitting to replace onto my Vostok??..... and on a budget of ~Â£10 at the most!!!

Finally...... any comments or suggestions are welcomed


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## BuckyBleichert

According to Levenberg (p.42) this watch was probably made in the 1980s. Although the one in Levenberg has a slightly different face (it says automatic over the 21 jewels).


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## chris l

That's 31 jewels; part of what makes them such a good deal!


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## BuckyBleichert

chris l said:


> That's 31 jewels; part of what makes them such a good deal!


Hi

If it's actually 31 why does it only say 21?

Cheers.


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## chris l

I can't see the pictures from work, but the 2416B movement is a 31 jewel movement; if the dial says 21 jewels then the dial is in error, either wrongly marked or from a 21 jewel watch?

Knowing Russian factories, either is possible...


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## SharkBike

Mr Bee said:


> Also I cant decide wether to keep the Di Modell black double ridged leather strap it came on, or swap that to another watch - but what would be fitting to replace onto my Vostok??..... and on a budget of ~Â£10 at the most!!!


Congrats! :thumbsup:

Recently replaced the bracelet on mine with one of Roy's RAF navy Natos...










...and at Â£8 it would fit within your budget. :yes:


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## BuckyBleichert

chris l said:


> I can't see the pictures from work, but the 2416B movement is a 31 jewel movement; if the dial says 21 jewels then the dial is in error, either wrongly marked or from a 21 jewel watch?
> 
> Knowing Russian factories, either is possible...


Ah. Now I see. I have also had another look at the Levenberg and there are a couple of differences I hadn't noticed:

There are 3 watches in the book very similar to this one (nos. 245,246 and 247) and all made 1980s (245 up to 1991). All say 21 jewels and two have the blue dial. But Levenberg says these are with the 2416 not the 2416B which he says is a 21 jewel movement.

Besides all his watches having the word automatic on them, the hands are slightly different (not hollow as in this example) and there are no numbers on the bezels like this one.

Could this be a Frankenwatch?


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## Mr Bee

Sharkbite - That RAF NATO does look quite good, is it as comfortable as a supple leather strap? When people say (cos I've seen it a few times now) they got it from Roy, is that the RLT shop linked to from the top of the forum?

Your Amphibia looks like a more modern version than mine, can I ask what size the case is, 'cos it looks bigger on your photo than mine somehow. i think mine is just about 38-39mm not including crown.

Bucky - Do you mean Levenberg (I assume a known reference book??) says the 2416 or the 2416B is a 31 jewel? I noticed the bezel on mine seems to be different from others I've seen, but it clips on and off really easily, so is not neccessarily an integral part of the watch, and I suppose could have been lost and replaced in the past - especially if it is from the 60's or 70's, which is a fair age.


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## SharkBike

Mr Bee said:


> Sharkbite - That RAF NATO does look quite good, is it as comfortable as a supple leather strap? When people say (cos I've seen it a few times now) they got it from Roy, is that the RLT shop linked to from the top of the forum?
> 
> Your Amphibia looks like a more modern version than mine, can I ask what size the case is, 'cos it looks bigger on your photo than mine somehow. i think mine is just about 38-39mm not including crown.


Yes, very very comfy...I really like 'em.

Yes, Roy Taylor is RLT...he also hosts this forum. Here's a direct link to his NATO straps...

http://www.rltwatches.co.uk/acatalog/Military1.html

I believe my watch is the same size as yours...it's just that I have really stupid skinny wrists.


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## BuckyBleichert

Mr Bee said:


> Sharkbite - That RAF NATO does look quite good, is it as comfortable as a supple leather strap? When people say (cos I've seen it a few times now) they got it from Roy, is that the RLT shop linked to from the top of the forum?
> 
> Your Amphibia looks like a more modern version than mine, can I ask what size the case is, 'cos it looks bigger on your photo than mine somehow. i think mine is just about 38-39mm not including crown.
> 
> Bucky - Do you mean Levenberg (I assume a known reference book??) says the 2416 or the 2416B is a 31 jewel? I noticed the bezel on mine seems to be different from others I've seen, but it clips on and off really easily, so is not neccessarily an integral part of the watch, and I suppose could have been lost and replaced in the past - especially if it is from the 60's or 70's, which is a fair age.


Levenberg is the author of a book on Russian wristwatches imaginatively titled 'Russian wristwatches'  . The watches in the book that look like yours with the diver symbol (although none is exactly the same) all have the 2416 (not the 2416b) which is listed as 21 jewels and are Soviet era watches. All these watches say 21 jewels and automatic on the face. There are 2 blue versions and one black. All are 3AKA3 MO CCCP on the bottom.

I had a dig around on the net this afternoon (I am researching Soviet watches because I am starting to collect them myself) and it appears that - although I couldn't find 100% definitive statements - the 2416b is 31 jewels and was produced later (post-Soviet era) and is actually less reliable than the older 21 jewel version. I also noticed that there is often confusion on the web about the 2416 and 2416b where they are often confused with each other or assumed to be the same movement which is not the case. The 2416b is used in many current Vostok automatics.

If this is true, and I'm not 100% sure, then your watch cannot be a 1960s model. It might be a Soviet era face and/or case with a replaced post-Soviet movement inside. The bezel might also not be original - it is certainly different to the ones in Levenberg.


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## chris l

BuckyBleichert said:


> chris l said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't see the pictures from work, but the 2416B movement is a 31 jewel movement; if the dial says 21 jewels then the dial is in error, either wrongly marked or from a 21 jewel watch?
> 
> Knowing Russian factories, either is possible...
> 
> 
> 
> Ah. Now I see. I have also had another look at the Levenberg and there are a couple of differences I hadn't noticed:
> 
> There are 3 watches in the book very similar to this one (nos. 245,246 and 247) and all made 1980s (245 up to 1991). All say 21 jewels and two have the blue dial. But Levenberg says these are with the 2416 not the 2416B which he says is a 21 jewel movement.
> 
> Besides all his watches having the word automatic on them, the hands are slightly different (not hollow as in this example) and there are no numbers on the bezels like this one.
> 
> Could this be a Frankenwatch?
Click to expand...

The _current _2416 and 2416b are both 31 jewel movements... I believe there was an earlier 2416b that had 21?

wiki


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## BuckyBleichert

chris l said:


> BuckyBleichert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chris l said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't see the pictures from work, but the 2416B movement is a 31 jewel movement; if the dial says 21 jewels then the dial is in error, either wrongly marked or from a 21 jewel watch?
> 
> Knowing Russian factories, either is possible...
> 
> 
> 
> Ah. Now I see. I have also had another look at the Levenberg and there are a couple of differences I hadn't noticed:
> 
> There are 3 watches in the book very similar to this one (nos. 245,246 and 247) and all made 1980s (245 up to 1991). All say 21 jewels and two have the blue dial. But Levenberg says these are with the 2416 not the 2416B which he says is a 21 jewel movement.
> 
> Besides all his watches having the word automatic on them, the hands are slightly different (not hollow as in this example) and there are no numbers on the bezels like this one.
> 
> Could this be a Frankenwatch?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The _current _2416 and 2416b are both 31 jewel movements... I believe there was an earlier 2416b that had 21?
> 
> wiki
Click to expand...

If that is the case then this might be OK then. (And would explain why I thought people were confusing the 2416 with the 2416b online - the reality is that it is in fact confusing  )


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## BuckyBleichert

Just to throw more fuel on the fire there is not a single watch on the Vostok official site that uses a 2416 movement. There are several that sport the 2416B.

Is there then a current 2416 movement?


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## chris l

> I had a dig around on the net this afternoon (I am researching Soviet watches because I am starting to collect them myself) and it appears that - although I couldn't find 100% definitive statements - the 2416b is 31 jewels and was produced later (post-Soviet era) and is actually less reliable than the older 21 jewel version. I also noticed that there is often confusion on the web about the 2416 and 2416b where they are often confused with each other or assumed to be the same movement which is not the case. The 2416b is used in many current Vostok automatics.
> 
> If this is true, and I'm not 100% sure, then your watch cannot be a 1960s model. It might be a Soviet era face and/or case with a replaced post-Soviet movement inside. The bezel might also not be original - it is certainly different to the ones in Levenberg.


Interesting... there are 2416 watches on sale currently claiming 31 jewels! Google 2416 movement.

Then.... there are the 2209 'tonneau' Amphibias... I have a drawer full of them, too!


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## HHHH

I bought this watch from a seller in the Ukraine who was advertising it from the late 1960's, not that that proves anything i suppose. I know nothing about the watch other than it arrived in a padded envelope with a Chernobyl post mark....so I'm guessing it should be easy to read the time in the dark even if the lume did fall out of the hands.


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## mach 0.0013137

I`ve got this Soviet era Vostok which has a 21 jewel movement...

*Boctok,`Сделано в СССР`cal. 2416 21 ** КАМНЯ*










I have presumed it to be circa 1980s but would be interested to hear if anyone knows different :wink2:


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## Stan

HHHH said:


> I bought this watch from a seller in the Ukraine who was advertising it from the late 1960's, not that that proves anything i suppose. I know nothing about the watch other than it arrived in a padded envelope with a Chernobyl post mark....so I'm guessing it should be easy to read the time in the dark even if the lume did fall out of the hands.


I suspect it was a Wolf, most of the other inhabitants of Chernobyl may not be able to buy postage stamps due to the height of the post office counters (and the lack of human staff :blink: )? 

It was kind of him/ her to gnaw out the lume on the hands, they could have been tritium based, Heaven forfend.


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## BuckyBleichert

chris l said:


> I had a dig around on the net this afternoon (I am researching Soviet watches because I am starting to collect them myself) and it appears that - although I couldn't find 100% definitive statements - the 2416b is 31 jewels and was produced later (post-Soviet era) and is actually less reliable than the older 21 jewel version. I also noticed that there is often confusion on the web about the 2416 and 2416b where they are often confused with each other or assumed to be the same movement which is not the case. The 2416b is used in many current Vostok automatics.
> 
> If this is true, and I'm not 100% sure, then your watch cannot be a 1960s model. It might be a Soviet era face and/or case with a replaced post-Soviet movement inside. The bezel might also not be original - it is certainly different to the ones in Levenberg.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting... there are 2416 watches on sale currently claiming 31 jewels! Google 2416 movement.
Click to expand...

As I am interested in Russian automatics, this thread led me to google 2416 and 2416b. The most convincing explanations I found implied:

The 2416 was Soviet era and had 21 jewels.

After the collapse of the USSR in the early 1990s for marketing purposes Vostok produced a 31 jewel 2416B.

The 2416B was inferior to the old 2416, but they thought it would sell more watches having 31 jewels.

Most of the current Vostok autos use a 2416B

However, there was no definitive and authentic information that I could find. People often used 2416 and 2416B interchangeably or loosely. Plus Levenberg only ever mentions 2416, never 2416B as far as I can tell.

It might be the case that there was a 21 jewel 2416B in the USSR (which would explain why Mr Bee's watch has SU stamped on the movement for Soviet Union?) In which case the information above is wrong. It might be the case that there was a 2416 with 31 jewels as well. Who knows?

My conclusions from this exercise now are that a) there is no definitive information about this kind of thing on the web, just lots of contradictory information. b ) It would help if there was a definitive website by someone who actually knows and has 1st hand info from the Russian manufacturers - maybe there is a Russian page with better info? c) Until a definitive or reliable source is identified there is not much point in looking too much.

This is a pity because it seems that this kind of information is pretty essential to a serious collector of these watches.


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## Mr Bee

Soooo....... nobody really knows the true definite facts 

I wonder if mine is an ald 60's case and dial marked 21 Jewel, but with a newer 31 jewel 2416B (1980's, as its stamped "SU") actually fitted?

As for lume falling out and into the mechanism - I have noticed it seems to run a little slow, losing around 5 mins a day. Is a clean and re-lube a sure fire guarantee to get an auto watch back up and running accurately? (this is my first ever auto watch, so I don't know much about them...)


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## Mr Bee

I have a question regarding manual winding......

I found somewhere on the web (can't find link now, but I could look for it if anyone's interested) a user manual for Vostoks with the 2416B movement. It says if it runs out of power from not being worn, then you should pull crown out to position 2, and give it ~25 turns to wind it up and give it a good start.

I've not been wearing it over the weekend, and so I went to give it a manual wind to top it up. When I turn the crown to wind, it makes a kind of clicking noise, and you can 'feel' it too....... is this normal, or does this indicate its not actually winding the movement??

Cheers


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