# Importers Marks



## jeffstunes

Hi all. Mr Newbie here.

I've recently acquired 2 pocket watches and 3 chains. A friend of mine had an uncle who died, and he left him all sorts of stuff. Well I've been charged with doing some research on a number of things and yes, to eventually sell them for him.

It has led me into discovering some excellent resources online. This place included. I now know things about hallmarking that I didn't even know I wanted to know, but it was necessary to know a bit more about the objects in my possession.

I read another post before this and guided another poster to a silver hallmark identification site. Hopefully it will help them as much as it has me.

So before I ask what I want to ask, i just want to share something with you that I'm sure all watch lovers can remember. I'm not a collector of watches and in order to examine these watches for hallmarks etc I had to open them up and I don't know about the rest of you but it took my breath away to see a pocket watch movement close up for the first time. It was beautiful. Lol.

O.K. My two pocket watches are quite similar looking. I've managed to identify the first one. It's a silver J. W. Benson watch produced in 1935 for the silver Jubilee of King George V and Queen Mary. It comes in a presentation box with a Silver Medallion. The watch is in fantastic condition and perfect working order. It's this one that took my breath away when opening. So shiny and beautiful. It looks like new 

I've looked around for mention anywhere of these sets but I cant find anything. May that suggest that they are rare?

The second watch has an identical dial to the Jubilee one. The silver is quite tarnished but again it is in great working order. Nothing a bit of silver polish or toothpaste can't sort out.

I'm having a slight issue with the hallmarks. It has 4.

One is the Omega mark which I know is the import mark for London.

The second is .925 which I know is the silver grade.

The third is the letter B which I'm guessing is the date mark for 1936-1937.

It's the fourth one that get's me. I know it's the importers mark, but I haven't managed to find the company name. Even on a site that has importers marks.

The mark is 'LS' in a box with a spike in the top middle of the box. Has anyone here come across that importers mark and more importantly, do you know who it is


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## Roger the Dodger

Jeff,...we would need to see some photos before we can really think of helping you...whilst you have described things quite eloquently, a picture speaks a thousand words...... What I can say is that J.W.Benson pocket watches are usually highly prized collectors items. I'm sure someone far more knowledgable than me will be along shortly...so get those pics up! :thumbsup:


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## a6cjn

Welcome to the Forum Jeff, it;s a nice friendly place.

Your Benson watch sounds very exciting and we would love to see some pictures.

Benson watches are highly valued and collected and yours would be even more so if the condition is as you describe.

Empty Benson watch boxes fetch silly money as well so together with the medallion you have a valuable set.

My advice would be to get a general valuation at a high St jewellers asap so that you can get it adequately insured.

That will then give you time to do some more research and get a more acurate valuation for selling.

I have gone through my books and have done a quick online search without any success which suggests to me that it is a rare set.

Look forward to seeing some pics

Chris


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## jeffstunes

I'll be very pleased to put some pics up. All I can say is thank heavens for macro focus 

First up the Jubilee watch.

This is a bit like pass the parcel. Waiting to get at the sweeties inside 

First of all there was the box.










Then inside that box was another box!










Then inside that box was another altogether more attractive box with a silver coin.










Here's a closer look at the front of the watch.










Here are the hallmarks of the inside of the case.










You can see the marks for J. W. Benson, 1935. Also the duty mark for the Jubilee.

Here's the glorious guts!










That's the first watch.


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## jeffstunes

Npw for the second of the two watches that has me a little baffled. I have a pretty good idea that it was purchased at Bensons of Ludgate Hill because they were both owned by the same person and the store was local to him.

Anyway here are some pics.

This is the front.










and here's the back.










Inside the case.










The hallmarks.










As you can see it has the London import mark and the .925 grade. I think the year for the B is 1936-1937. The other mark is the importers mark and I can't find any importers with that mark LS. The closest I've come is L. Spiers, but their mark has a dot between the L and the S. Also L. Spiers was Birmingham.

Has anyone come across this importer?

Finally the internal organs.










Thanks for any help in advance


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## a6cjn

:jawdrop:

I promised myself (and SWMBO) that I wouldn't start collecting again but that Benson set is just... awsome, superb etc..

I'd cheerfully swap a kidney for that :yes:

I haven't seen one presented in that way and it may have been a one off.

Outer Benson card boxes are rare but sometimes you can find the original buyer's receipt in them and it looks as if they modded one of their traditional cases for the presentation of both coin and watch.

It's a lovely set

I have a Benson, it's a half hunter and one of my favourites










Chris


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## jeffstunes

a6cjn said:


> :jawdrop:
> 
> I promised myself (and SWMBO) that I wouldn't start collecting again but that Benson set is just... awsome, superb etc..
> 
> I'd cheerfully swap a kidney for that :yes:
> 
> I haven't seen one presented in that way and it may have been a one off.
> 
> Outer Benson card boxes are rare but sometimes you can find the original buyer's receipt in them and it looks as if they modded one of their traditional cases for the presentation of both coin and watch.
> 
> It's a lovely set
> 
> I have a Benson, it's a half hunter and one of my favourites
> 
> Chris


Thanks for the welcome Chris. I have to say that your watch looks pretty special too. I'm not surprised it's one of your favourites.

I'm not sure they would go to all that trouble for a one-off. However it may have been a very limited run. Like you, I have had a good look around, and if it's on the net I can normally find it. I.T. is one of my strong points. I've not only looked on the web but also on Newsgroups.

Maybe I'll have more luck about the Jubilee watch with a comprehensive history of J. W. Benson. I'm sure that would mention limited runs. The serial is clearly visible so if records exist, it should be recorded somehow, as it was produced after their factory was bombed.

I'm still on the lookout for the importer L.S. As there is a London import mark, I'm going to assume it's a London importer so that narrows it down a bit. Now I have to find the company with that symbol that was in operation in 1936 

Unless someone else comes up with the answer


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## a6cjn

Well, I've spent a pleasant afternoon rooting around t'internet but I still haven't any reference to your commemorative watch. However, I did come across these which I found of interest.

I was surprised at the 1885 prices





































And here'sa good link for reference books

Chris


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## JWL940

Jeff - that Benson is just stunning, thanks for sharing it.

Chris - Interesting research, what do those prices translate to in today's money? More than I couls afford I guess.

John


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## Mikrolisk

The Benson-watch contains a (swiss) Tavannes Watch Co. - movement, Benson seems to import many of those movements. Here is the original:










Andreas


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## jeffstunes

a6cjn said:


> Well, I've spent a pleasant afternoon rooting around t'internet but I still haven't any reference to your commemorative watch. However, I did come across these which I found of interest.
> 
> I was surprised at the 1885 prices
> 
> And here'sa good link for reference books
> 
> Chris


Those were astonishing prices at that time. I noticed they were gold. In the other list the cheapest one translates into at least Â£200 in today's money, taking inflation into account.


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## jeffstunes

JWL940 said:


> Jeff - that Benson is just stunning, thanks for sharing it.
> 
> Chris - Interesting research, what do those prices translate to in today's money? More than I couls afford I guess.
> 
> John


Thanks. I'm amazed at the condition. The guy that bought it was a grandfather of a friend of mine. I'm guessing he probably bought the second watch to use every day and kept that one back for special occasions 

I did a quick search myself for Inflation calculator on the net. It only goes back to 1900 but I put in Â£2 1s 6d, and it came back with nearly Â£200 in today's money


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## jeffstunes

Mikrolisk said:


> The Benson-watch contains a (swiss) Tavannes Watch Co. - movement, Benson seems to import many of those movements. Here is the original:
> 
> Andreas


I'm assuming other companies imported Swiss movements. The value given to Benson timepieces has got to be down to the Royal associations and possibly other factors.


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## jeffstunes

For anyone that's interested. I've been doing a bit more research online about J. W. Benson and the jubilee.

I started to get excited when up came a result in the search engine with short text showing the words J. W. Benson silver pocket watch, and commemorative and silver jubilee. :clap:

However, my hopes were soon dashed when I read the auction catalogue, only to find that the watch was indeed silver, but it was not a commemorative issue. There were however 6 commemorative silver spoons produced by J. W. Benson. :cry2:

Not exactly a watch eh?

I will continue to look. Also I'm still looking around for the L.S. importers mark


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## jeffstunes

For anybody that's interested.

I went on a little day out to a place called Winchester. I took this watch along with me.

Why? Yo may ask.

On this particular day, the "Antiques Roadshow" was in the cathedral. Not being one to turn down a free valuation, I popped along and stood in the queue for a few hours. It wasn't boring at all. I saw all manner of strange objects.

When I finally got the the Clocks and Watches table I sat down and got this watch out and gave it to the celebrity expert to mull over. I think it was Richard Price.

He opened it up and said it was a shame that the movement was Swiss. I was about to tell him that the factory got bombed in the first world war and they imported movements since then.

He also stated to me that he had never seen it presented in this way before. He told me the condition was superb. I told him that I had seen a similar watch alone go on EBay for about Â£150. He told me that because he had never seen this way of presentation before, and because of the external box and excellent condition. He would give it an auction estimate of Â£450 - Â£500.

Quite pleasing for a lump of silver


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## a6cjn

That must have been an interesting day out Jeff, I've heard stories about folk who've been to a Roadshow and stood about for hours and never got past the intial reception desk viewers

Will you be on the telly? :grin:

Auction values tend to be a bit conservative so I'd still get insured for a couple of thousand.

It's a lovely collector's piece

Chris


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## Andy Gondorf

Hi Folks,

Sorry about a newcomer bringing this thread back from the dead after about a year or so, but I'd love to know if the O.P. ever found any more info about his jubilee commemorative Benson in a box with a coin.

The reason is that my Mum has one almost exactly the same, minus the outside paper sleeve, and I was trying to find any info about it for insurance purposes.

I've only seen two other instances anywhere on Google, one belonging to the O.P. and another one which seems to be for sale on a variety of places ( it's the same one, you can tell by the pictures of the inside of the box with the badly frayed silk? lining).

I see it didn't sell again and has been reposted here

This seems to be very rare to me and I'd greatly appreciate any more help/background if possible.

I've taken some pictures and can gladly post them if that would help.

Andy Gondorf.


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## jeffstunes

Andy Gondorf said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> Sorry about a newcomer bringing this thread back from the dead after about a year or so, but I'd love to know if the O.P. ever found any more info about his jubilee commemorative Benson in a box with a coin.
> 
> The reason is that my Mum has one almost exactly the same, minus the outside paper sleeve, and I was trying to find any info about it for insurance purposes.
> 
> I've only seen two other instances anywhere on Google, one belonging to the O.P. and another one which seems to be for sale on a variety of places ( it's the same one, you can tell by the pictures of the inside of the box with the badly frayed silk? lining).
> 
> I see it didn't sell again and has been reposted here
> 
> This seems to be very rare to me and I'd greatly appreciate any more help/background if possible.
> 
> I've taken some pictures and can gladly post them if that would help.
> 
> Andy Gondorf.


Hi Andy.

I haven't done much research on it. The movement is imported. This is probably due to the fact that Bensons got bombed in the first world war. After that they stopped making their own movements. I looked at the listing you pointed out and thought that was probably the sort of price one would expect from a dealer. I was given an auction estimate of Â£450-500, although I think that was on the conservative side considering that my watch was only ever taken out of it's box a few times. The coin has hardly been handled. So it's probably the finest example of this particular edition.

It is very rare and to date I only know of three. Mine, yours and the one you pointed out. Normally, a silver pocket watch wouldn't fetch that much. Probably quite less than Â£100. However, as this edition is so rare and it is sort of royal memorabilia, it kicks the value way beyond that of any equivalent watch of the time.

If it's of any help, the guy at the Antiques roadshow told me that he had never seen this edition before. I count myself luckier than him knowing there are a few out there.

Condition is everything and if that example you show is at Â£850 then that makes me smile because mine is in much better condition. Virtually unused.

That paper sleeve is actually a very rare postal box and they sell quite well on their own, although I've only ever seen two others.

So yes, what you have is very rare and that's where all the value is. If you are going to cover it for insurance then count the retail value rather than the auction estimate. You could go with the value the EBay seller has placed on it or get a proper quote from one of these online valuers. They are quite reasonably priced.


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