# Information About This Watch, Please.



## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

This morning I bought an open-faced gold pocket-watch from a jewellery-dealer. Mr. Dealer told me that he bought the watch from a watchmaker who fixed it for him recently and he wanted to sell it.

It was marked as $340. I pinched it for $200. The man I bought it from tells me it's a 17-Jewel open-faced Waltham. I would like to know as much as I can about it, specifically the year of manufacture.










The watch has the following markings:

*Face:*

- Blue hands.

- Roman numerals.

- Minute subdial @ 6:00.

*Underneath 12, it reads:*

MADE IN USA FOR *something* (starting with T and ending in S) & KERMODE 115 ELIZABETH St. MELBOURNE.

*Open the back and on the first dust-cover, it reads:*

TWO PLATE

5 YEAR

A.B (This last line inside a sideways diamond-shape).

*Open the last dust-cover, revealing the movement, and it reads:*

9225729.

Am. Watch. Co.

Waltham.

Mass

BOND St.

*On the reverse-side of the dust-cover, revealing the movement, it reads:*

ENGLISH MADE

THIS CASE

GUARANTEED TO WEAR

-5 YEARS-

MADE OF TWO PIECES OF GOLD

614

1

The watch has been cleaned, serviced and runs perfectly. Keeps time down to the minute


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

Never mind! I found out what I need about it.

Seven-jewel open-faced Waltham pocket-watch. Gold-filled case made in England, movement and watch made in America, sold to a jewellery-shop located on 115 Elizabeth Street, Melbourne, Australia. Date of manufacture (as close as the expert I asked could fix it) to be 1899. Such a gem 

By the way,

Can someone please explain these differences to me?

Solid gold.

Rolled gold.

Gold-filled.

Gold-plated.

Solid gold is, of course, not real solid gold. It would be gold mixed with something else (12, 14, 18 - or higher) carats of gold with some other metal.

Gold-plated is gold thinly plated over the top of some other base-metal to give the appearance of gold.

What are the definitions for rolled gold and gold-filled? I thought I knew the difference, but I'm not so sure now.


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## adrian (May 23, 2004)

Purity

24 Kt. - 100% Gold

18 Kt. - 75% Gold

14 Kt. - 58.3% Gold

10 Kt. - 41.7%

Color / Alloy added

Yellow Gold - 50% silver and 50% copper

White Gold - Nickel, zinc, copper, tin and manganese

Pink (rose) Gold - 90% copper and 10% silver

Green Gold - High proportion of silver or cadmium

Blue Gold - Some iron

Grey Gold - 15-20% iron

*Gold filled* - made of a thin outer layer of gold atop a base metal. For example, jewelry marked 1/20 G.F. 12 Kt. is at least 1/20th gold and is layered with 12 karat gold. To be classified as gold-filled, a piece must be at least 1/20 gold by weight. Gold-filled items are 50 to 100,000 times thicker than regular gold plating, and 17 to 25,000 times thicker than heavy gold electroplate.

*Rolled gold* is a very thin sheet of gold that is laminated to a lesser metal (usually brass). The two layers of metal are heated under pressure to fuse them together. The sheet is them rolled into a very thin sheet and then used to make jewelry or other objects. Jewelry made from rolled gold wear well over time.

*Gold-plated* metal has a very thin layer of gold on the surface, usually applied by the process of electroplating.

Very nice watch, btw. Maybe you can get a better picture of dial and movement.


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## Mikrolisk (Jan 23, 2008)

Yeah, an old Waltham!

The movement is a model 1895 "Bond Street", unadjusted, 7 jewels, overcoil ("breguet") hairspring, open face in 14-size.

The serial number 9225729 dates it to 1900.

Andreas


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

Thanks Adrian & Andreas,

How much research would it require to find out what kind of movement it has? By that I mean, is there any way of finding out how long it should run for? The dealer I bought the watch from told me that it had been serviced within the last two years (so it should be good to go for a while yet), and he told me that the winding-mechanism had a ratchet-system which prevented the watch from being overwound.

Was this specific Waltham model fitted with such an overwind-protection system/mechanism? How would I find out? How long should this watch run on a full wind?


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

In accordance with Adrian's wishes...

Face & Back:










The chain is one that I bought separately. Brass T-bar chain for $20. I think it goes well with the watch even if it's not made of the same metal. I picked it firstly because I wanted a T-bar chain and secondly because I wanted something nice and chunky that didn't look like it would snap if the watch fell out of a pocket. Also, the chain is easy to clip on and unclip from around the watch.










Movement. Apologies for the quality, but this was the absolute best that I could do. It was a struggle to get the caseback open, but I did it, and without any kind of damage, either. I feel proud  It's the first time I ever tried to open a watch. It was fun reading all the marks and company engravings inside the case. You can (just) read:

Am. Watch. Co.

Waltham, Mass.

By the way, how is "Waltham" pronounced? I just can't figure it out.


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## adrian (May 23, 2004)

Thanks for posting, I like movement pictures. Should you have the same decorations on a modern watch the price mark will be around 1,500$.


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

The pretty shield-like pattern on the caseback and the pretty twirly patterns are really amazing. I'm glad I bought this watch. I'm scavenging together some money to have the watch serviced. I know a man who works in a large antiques center nearby my house and I've sent him an email to see if he knows a watchmaker who can fix this baby up for me.

Will this watch being a Waltham make it more, or less expensive to repair?


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

Well, I finally found a nice, local watchmaker & Jewller. Been in the same shop for the past 80 years. Presumably a family-owned affair. It's right in the next suburb from me  I can walk right there. I'm gonna drop by tomorrow or Monday to drop off my watch and pray for a reasonable repair-price.


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## adrian (May 23, 2004)

Good luck. :thumbsup:


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

It's the first time I've been to a watchmaker's in nearly 10 years. And the last time wasn't very promising. I hope this is better.


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

Well!

It took three attempts, but I FINALLY found a watchmaker who can repair my Waltham! :lol: I recieved a phone-call this afternoon with a price on repairs, which, I am glad to say, is within my limit. I gave the go-ahead and hopefully my widdle ticker will be back in my hands in a week! Watchmaker said he could fix the damaged parts of the watch and that a timecheck for accuracy was included in the package. So when I get it back, my Waltham should not only run properly, but it should also keep time.

Well it kept time before I sent it in, but it's always nice to be sure.

Rejoice with me!


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## Mikrolisk (Jan 23, 2008)

Cool, if he does good work, keep his name in mind. Good watchmakers, who can do more than changing batteries, are quite rare these days.

Let us know when your watch will return!

Andreas


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## Shangas (Jan 27, 2008)

Hi Andreas,

Yes, I understand well what you mean. These days, traditional occupations are all dying. Tailors, shoemakers, pen-repairers, watchmakers, clockmakers, instrument-repairmen and so-on. They may hold the titles, but they don't have the skills.

These days, a watchmaker just changes batteries. Finding a watchmaker who can actually REPAIR A WATCH, that is, a mechanical, hand-wound or self-winding timepiece, is damned near impossible! And I found that out the hard way.

The first jeweller I sent the watch to was "Brown's Jewellery".

Professional jewellery and watch-repairs. Free quotes and evaluations for purposes of insurance, and so-on. Been going since 1920.

They couldn't fix it.

Next, I sent it to a joint called Royal Tiffany Jewellers. Again: "Professional watch & jewellery repairs".

Nothing. Couldn't fix it.

Did a bit more research to find out exactly WHAT I should be looking for, and found yet another place. Went there. Seller of second-hand modern and vintage timepieces. Professional watchmaker on-hand.

Still nothing. Couldn't fix it.

In the end, I found a TINY LITTLE SHOP in a back-alley and left the watch there. THEY CAN fix it! And the shop really was tiny. If I wasn't looking for it, I would've walked right past it. The floorspace is probably six feet by twelve. It was called the Watch Gallery. I found its website online and gave them a call. I looked through their stuff and they looked very qualified.

Said they had a combined 50 years experience in trading, buying, selling, repairing and evaluating modern and vintage watches and jewellery. So I went off to find them. I dropped the watch there on Friday and now I got the reply that I didn't get from three other watchmakers:

"Yes, we can fix your watch. This is how much it will cost..."

I asked the owner what the price covered. He said it was for the replacement of the broken parts to make the watch wind and run properly, and included a time-check for accuracy. Seemed reasonable, so I said "Yes". Hopefully I'll get that watch back within a week.

As I was saying to a friend about a particular watchmaker: "It's ridiculous. This guy says he's a watchmaker, and yet he can't fix my watch! He says the parts to fix the watch aren't being produced anymore and that he won't be able to get them. What the hell? He's supposed to be a watchMAKER. Part of their job is being able to MAKE watch-components! Regardless of how OLD the timepiece IS!"

A watchmaker who can do THAT, is someone that I would call a watchmaker.


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