# Electric Cars



## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

There are a couple of charging points at the train station mostly occupied by a dull as ditchwater Datsun

But I saw this on Saturday, a bit of Maserati look to it but never the less a smart bit of kit



















Surely the way forward, build a few more nuclear power station to get some clean leccy and some more of these on the road.


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## xellos99 (Dec 17, 2015)

BondandBigM said:


> Surely the way forward, build a few more nuclear power station to get some clean leccy and some more of these on the road.


 They could if they wanted to but deliberately don't.

When they first started making nuclear power there are videos of top government guys saying " we can now make electricity so cheaply, we are going to give it away for free"

So if they could have give it away back then, what is different now ? Surely nuclear plant are more efficient now


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## Krispy (Nov 7, 2010)

BondandBigM said:


> There are a couple of charging points at the train station mostly occupied by a dull as ditchwater Datsun
> 
> But I saw this on Saturday, a bit of Maserati look to it but never the less a smart bit of kit
> 
> ...


 Nice knees, do you veet?? 

Or, seeing's as we live on a lump of coal, dig the stuff up and burn it!!


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Krispy said:


> *Nice knees*, do you veet??
> 
> Or, seeing's as we live on a lump of coal, dig the stuff up and burn it!!


 Beat me to it !


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

For those of you that are car reliant and I've been there, live half my life stuck on the M1 maybe the work/life balance needs a look at as well

But hey we all need that big shack with a hot tub on the decking and £100 quid restaurant bills

:biggrin:

And by the way I don't Veet but who knows what Big M does to me after I have a few V&RB's and pass out

:laugh: :laugh:


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## Krispy (Nov 7, 2010)

BondandBigM said:


> And by the way I don't Veet but who knows what Big M does to me after I have a few V&RB's and pass out


 I hate to be the one to tell you this, but I think she's been at your bonce with it.

(JOKING!!!)

artytime:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Krispy said:


> I hate to be the one to tell you this, but I think she's been at your bonce with it.
> 
> (JOKING!!!)
> 
> artytime:


 :laugh: :laugh:

I struggled unsuccessfully with the comb over for years with Big M continually taking the p!ss then eventually gave up and bought a pair of clippers.

Now she says I just look like an out of date football thug that would be better off in a mobility scooter.

:biggrin:


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

Walked past one of those on the high street today. What happens if the battery is flat? The door handles are electronic are they not? They're just metal plates.


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## martinzx (Aug 29, 2010)

xellos99 said:


> They could if they wanted to but deliberately don't.
> 
> When they first started making nuclear power there are videos of top government guys saying " we can now make electricity so cheaply, we are going to give it away for free"


 I remember them saying that about North Sea Gas


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## BlueKnight (Oct 29, 2009)

BondandBigM said:


> :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> I struggled unsuccessfully with the comb over for years with Big M continually taking the p!ss then eventually gave up and bought a pair of clippers.
> 
> ...


 I feel for you.....When I'm done with it, I'll ship it to you free of charge, Or you can give it to Mach for his arms. And how did we go from electric cars to our folicular challenge?


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

hughlle said:


> Walked past one of those on the high street today. What happens if the battery is flat? The door handles are electronic are they not? They're just metal plates.


 There will most likely be some way to get into it, even my old Merc has a small flap that allows access to one door with a conventional key if the battery goes flat.



BlueKnight said:


> And how did we go from electric cars to our folicular challenge?


 Even though some here winge it's par for the course, a bit like my local, nobody talks about the beer for long

:laugh: :laugh:

I'll keep my eye out for the postman.

:biggrin:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)




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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Seems to be a bit of a thing Stateside recently. I caught an episode of Wheeler Dealers the other night and they updated an old Maserati to a modern electric drive train.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> Seems to be a bit of a thing Stateside recently.


 Try doing anything like that here, and then get it insured.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Maybe easier than you think all be it not cheap. A few people in the UK doing electric conversion.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/electrified-aston-martin-db6-driving-future-proof-classic

I could live with something along these lines, it's only a 20 mile round trip to work and a few miles at the weekend for some shopping, if we go out of town we just use the local trains which are cheap and reasonably frequent. The station is only five minutes walk away

https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> all be it not cheap.


 Certainly not. Motors alone, £3k plus. :huh:


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

BondandBigM said:


> Seems to be a bit of a thing Stateside recently. I caught an episode of Wheeler Dealers the other night and they updated an old Maserati to a modern electric drive train.


 I saw that episode a year or so ago. The thing that puts me off electric cars is the limited range...I couldn't drive from here to Scotland without re charging and it's not like pulling into a garage, filling up in a couple of minutes and away again...It would be an overnight stop somewhere. Until they can significantly increase the range, I don't see the point of them...especially things like the BMW i8, Lotus Evija et al....


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Roger the Dodger said:


> I saw that episode a year or so ago. The thing that puts me off electric cars is the limited range...I couldn't drive from here to Scotland without re charging and it's not like pulling into a garage, filling up in a couple of minutes and away again...It would be an overnight stop somewhere. Until they can significantly increase the range, I don't see the point of them...especially things like the BMW i8, Lotus Evija et al....


 If you live in town and only toot around they would do a job and as I said we use the trains a fair bit, nowhere near as bad as they are made out to be it you are travelling off peak and book a bit in advance.

We went to London a bit back, five minutes walk from my flat to catch it, booked seats, comfortable, on time and we were in Kings Cross in about three hours, £90 return for the pair of us. I couldn't have done it for that in the Old Beemer.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> Kings Cross in about three hours, £90 return for the pair of us.


 Last time I looked, in England you can't use the "express" busses on a bus pass, however, I can travel from Berwick upon Tweed to Thurso in, er, possibly 9 hours and 20 minutes. :laugh:

Nice scenery though.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Whenever these are mentioned, I think "Betamax". Anyway, perhaps a solution to cable charging, but it doesn't look cheap.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-nottinghamshire-51140689


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## KAS118 (Mar 2, 2014)

I used to think that - and I use to think hybrids made more sense or that hydrogen fuel cells would become more popular and ultimately prevail.

However, I then watched this video and it got me thinking. I rarely have to drive more than 250 miles and I could just charge up over night and never have to have the faff of going to a petrol station.

Without a internal combustion engine, the cooling that it needs and a large fuel tank that can't be as conveniently positioned an electric vehicle can be much better 'packaged'.

I still have a petrol engine car at the moment - but I'm coming to the conclusion that for me at least - electric makes more

http://






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Ocean_Jr (Feb 1, 2020)

That's interesting, I thought wireless (inductive) charging was either too slow or a hazard - so apparently science has made a step forward.

Not sure where I read that but the charging power required to actually charge a car overnight would apparently endanger small animals / toddlers etc. if they get between the charger and the car.

Then again, that might be a welcome protection against martens / ferrets nibbling on the car's brake pipe. :biggrin:


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

I agree with your first sentiment, Steve @WRENCH, and your Betamax comparison strikes a chord with my own feelings about electric cars. For me, there appear to be two almost insurmountable long-term drawbacks to electric cars. Firstly, there is the problem of just how many accessible charging points are going to be available when motorists start buying electric cars in large numbers, and secondly, there is the problem of how we are going to safely dispose of all the used lithium batteries.


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

I borrowed a BMW i3 for the day recently. It is seriously quick - quicker 0-30 than a M4 - and range would rarely be an issue. But rarely isn't never, and as yet the infrastructure isn't in place. Plus a new one is £38k, whereas half that would get me a decent petrol car.

Petrol for another few years here


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

scottswatches said:


> Petrol for another few years here


 Here's a Hi-tech alternative.


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## KAS118 (Mar 2, 2014)

I wonder if this will start the major switch over to Electric https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/new-tax-rules-herald-ev-sales-boom


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

KAS118 said:


> I wonder if this will start the major switch over to Electric https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/new-tax-rules-herald-ev-sales-boom


 I think it will for low mileage users. There are a few "e-vans" appearing in my area, but what will happen is that car ownership will become almost impossible for anyone on a low income given the cost of owning these things, although predictions are that prices will become more realistic as production increases. I've spoken to a few people that "own"/drive e-cars, and so far, they're all leased, with the payment costs being linked to annual mileage.


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

WRENCH said:


> Here's a Hi-tech alternative.


 Do you have a link to his obituary too? House switches, hillbilly wiring and jam jars. :hmmm9uh:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

scottswatches said:


> hillbilly wiring and jam jars.


 Just think though, that has been made out of junk. If it works, just think what some big manufacturing corporation could do with it.


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## KAS118 (Mar 2, 2014)

WRENCH said:


> I think it will for low mileage users. There are a few "e-vans" appearing in my area, but what will happen is that car ownership will become almost impossible for anyone on a low income given the cost of owning these things, although predictions are that prices will become more realistic as production increases. I've spoken to a few people that "own"/drive e-cars, and so far, they're all leased, with the payment costs being linked to annual mileage.


 Yeah, I'm working in Sweden at the moment - and there the 'purchase' of a vehicle appears to be quite unusual - it seems most people lease (and I believe in the UK Volvo were going to be introducing this).

This https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/108960/uk-petrol-and-diesel-2035-car-ban-will-include-hybrids-plug-in-hybrids-and-vans might also give a helping hand to the switchover to Electric Vehicles. However, government police does have a habit of changing


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## deano1956 (Jan 27, 2016)

we do not have the infrastructure or the generated electrical capacity or home electrical capacity/ facilities for every one to have a electric car and will not have for some time , so range is only ok/good if you can charge the car .

deano


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

2035 is coming! 15 years away.......will have stopped driving by then I think..... :taz:


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

deano1956 said:


> we do not have the infrastructure or the generated electrical capacity or home electrical capacity/ facilities for every one to have a electric car and will not have for some time , so range is only ok/good if you can charge the car .
> 
> deano


 We haven't even got the infrastructure for trains in the North of England


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## wrenny1969 (Jun 24, 2008)

I'm sure there weren't many petrol stations around when the first cars were introduced. Gradual transition to electric vehicles will drive innovation and change. Batteries, motors etc will improve in efficiency and I suppose one good thing is that much of the demand for charging will come from overnight demand?

I'm pretty excited about autonomous vehicles with no steering wheel and a drinks cabinet.


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

if the UK is lucky, Boris will stop this non sence. Trump dosen't like it either. vin


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)




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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

vinn said:


> if the UK is lucky, Boris will stop this non sence. Trump dosen't like it either. vin


 Afraid not, the government says, and [email protected] is the government.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-40726868?__twitter_impression=true


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## deano1956 (Jan 27, 2016)

wrenny1969 said:


> I'm sure there weren't many petrol stations around when the first cars were introduced


 true, but it was only the privileged and rich who had cars then , common people ran horse and carts , trolly bus or walked, which is what some would like to see return, until there is a model T electric car for the masses then I see car ownership declining, also don't see electric becoming cheaper to purchase as demand rises un like oil / petroleum did either. I may be biased as a old petrol head :laugh:

deano


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

deano1956 said:


> true, but it was only the privileged and rich who had cars then , common people ran horse and carts , trolly bus or walked, which is what some would like to see return, until there is a model T electric car for the masses then I see car ownership declining, also don't see electric becoming cheaper to purchase as demand rises un like oil / petroleum did either. I may be biased as a old petrol head :laugh:
> 
> deano


 the Gov. can adjust the price of electricy to replace the loss of gasoline plus, the cost of hireing more to "run the program". good luck vin


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

wrenny1969 said:


> I'm sure there weren't many petrol stations around when the first cars were introduced. Gradual transition to electric vehicles will drive innovation and change. Batteries, motors etc will improve in efficiency and I suppose one good thing is that much of the demand for charging will come from overnight demand?
> 
> I'm pretty excited about autonomous vehicles with no steering wheel and a drinks cabinet.


 Their introduction is putting or will put the Europeans especially the Germans under massive pressure, hence their shedding many Jobs at Mercedes and Audi...Whilst BMW pair up with Jag...to go electric...via the French. Just what we need now we are in competition with them. The Japanese are likely to be much quicker at Electric and the Americans...and better. Maybe the down fall of the German car industry hence our move to banning the purchase of new petrol and diesel cars 5 years earlier.

Adding increased pressure on the current position of Germany.


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## wrenny1969 (Jun 24, 2008)

Nigelp said:


> Their introduction is putting or will put the Europeans especially the Germans under massive pressure, hence their shedding many Jobs at Mercedes and Audi...Whilst BMW pair up with Jag...to go electric...via the French. Just what we need now we are in competition with them. The Japanese are likely to be much quicker at Electric and the Americans...and better. Maybe the down fall of the German car industry hence our move to banning the purchase of new petrol and diesel cars 5 years earlier.
> 
> Adding increased pressure on the current position of Germany.


 A game of high stakes :thumbsup:


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

America may be the only country that stays with gas and diesel ( except the state of California, but who cares about them). what about all those expensive cars in UK that become illegal? ? vin


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

vinn said:


> what about all those expensive cars in UK that become illegal? ?


 Richard Rawlings,










has just about completed a trade agreement with Mike Brewer (Arthur Daley department of technical innovation),










so expect to see some bargains stateside in the next year or so. Keep a look out for low mileage Austin Montegos or Triumph Acclaims.


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

vinn said:


> America may be the only country that stays with gas and diesel ( except the state of California, but who cares about them). what about all those expensive cars in UK that become illegal? ? vin


 They will not become illegal Vin - the proposal is that sales of NEW cars running petrol or diesel will be banned in 15 years time.


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

richy176 said:


> They will not become illegal Vin - the proposal is that sales of NEW cars running petrol or diesel will be banned in 15 years time.





richy176 said:


> They will not become illegal Vin - the proposal is that sales of NEW cars running petrol or diesel will be banned in 15 years time.


 what about the old and classic cars? vin


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

vinn said:


> what about the old and classic cars? vin


 You will not be able to buy a NEW automobile after 2035 with an internal combustion engine. You will still be able to use, run, buy and sell old/classic vehicles. For those of us who are still here in 2035.


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## deano1956 (Jan 27, 2016)

I want to know were all this electricity is coming from? to run all this, and together with the banning of gas boilers/heating in new build homes from 2025? were is this extra electric coming from?

deano


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

deano1956 said:


> were is this extra electric coming from?


 I don't know, but my home has the latest spec insulation, and the heating is off from March till November, and even in the coldest days this winter the heating is on for one hour a day, 1/2 hour in the morning and another 1/2 in the evening. So in theory, the power consumption in new builds is greatly reduced, unless you fill them with gadgets. I agree with the poor thinking 're infrastructure for electric cars. If public transport was even acceptable, more would use it. All new rural housing where I live have solar panels as part of spec, and the local park and ride is undergoing a huge expansion of charging facilities.


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## wrenny1969 (Jun 24, 2008)

deano1956 said:


> I want to know were all this electricity is coming from? to run all this, and together with the banning of gas boilers/heating in new build homes from 2025? were is this extra electric coming from?
> 
> deano


 The planning doesn't seem very joined up does it, and those with the pen are an odd bunch of; children, celebrities & harbingers of doom where everything needs to be done yesterday. Like others I want a cleaner world and setting targets can help but this new technology isn't cheap and in many cases doesn't yet exist in a mature enough form. The targets need to be achievable and properly costed just like anything else we are asked to sign up-to. Jury is out at the moment.


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

deano1956 said:


> I want to know were all this electricity is coming from? to run all this, and together with the banning of gas boilers/heating in new build homes from 2025? were is this extra electric coming from?
> 
> deano


 Solar panels are becoming more affordable and battery technology is improving so it should not be long before houses could become self-sufficient for electricity and also charge up a car. A few years ago the social housing in our village had their oil boilers replaced with heat pumps and they apparently work very well. Add in the latest insulation and energy use would fall substantially - just surprising that all this is not compulsory on new builds as it would not add a lot to the cost of a new home.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

richy176 said:


> just surprising that all this is not compulsory on new builds as it would not add a lot to the cost of a new home.


 In some areas it is. Local to where I am, a recent new development has car charging points in each home, although it would appear initially to be a trial it's a move in the "right" direction. What goes in the face of all this is the local bus services, especially in rural areas, has been drastically cut, making commuters and shoppers even more dependent on cars.

Hear pumps have improved a lot, and are much easier to install than the earlier ones.


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## chulyquang (Feb 4, 2020)

Tesla is a hot company now


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

deano1956 said:


> I want to know were all this electricity is coming from? to run all this, and together with the banning of gas boilers/heating in new build homes from 2025? were is this extra electric coming from?
> 
> deano


 nuclear power. vin


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)




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## wrenny1969 (Jun 24, 2008)

vinn said:


> nuclear power. vin


 https://www.rolls-royce.com/products-and-services/nuclear/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

wrenny1969 said:


> https://www.rolls-royce.com/products-and-services/nuclear/small-modular-reactors.aspx#/


 i don't know anything about the UK's reactors. i know about the one in Finnland and several Russ disasters. the US history of reactors is well published. i like the idea of a small one in my pickup truck. vin


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)




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## deano1956 (Jan 27, 2016)

vinn said:


> i don't know anything about the UK's reactors. i know about the one in Finnland and several Russ disasters. the US history of reactors is well published. i like the idea of a small one in my pickup truck. vin


 did not work out well in another car vin :laugh:

deano

[IMG alt="Image result for flux capacitor" data-ratio="56.00"]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcS0Z2dQm60q1RAxRJYdKW49DlH1zwb8slWWD2NWvSjkSruzl09S[/IMG]

[IMG alt="Image result for flux capacitor" data-ratio="108.84"]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTTlXS9aZdkpK0inHgoghR0Mnay7evkRUBKGAdbnSRWanYfBSZA[/IMG]


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## KAS118 (Mar 2, 2014)

Kia says that 1/3rd of their cars sold in the UK will be electric in 2020 https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/kia-uk-boss-third-2020-sales-will-be-electrified-vehicles

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Seems that milk floats are making a bit of a come back.

https://electricmilkfloats.co.uk/

No road tax, mot or congestion charges and you could make a few bob on the side.

As I've said previously I could easily use an electric car, work is a 20 mile round trip and if thay could get a couple of hundred miles in one go that would be more than enough. Last summer I saw a German registered Tesla on the A66 and it wasn't hanging about. All it will take is a bit of a rethinking of your travel plans.


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

vinn said:


> the Gov. can adjust the price of electricy to replace the loss of gasoline plus, the cost of hireing more to "run the program". good luck vin


 15 year plan to elininate deisel and petrol is now down to 12 years. where will it end ?


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

vinn said:


> 15 year plan to elininate deisel and petrol is now down to 12 years. where will it end ?


 They are not being eliminated, as I've already pointed out, you will still be able to run existing vehicles, you just won't be able to buy a new petrol or diesel engined car.



BondandBigM said:


> All it will take is a bit of a rethinking of your travel plans.


 The council and BT "workies" were a bit cold yesterday working at my road end, so they stayed in their vans all day with the motors running to keep themselves warm. Wonder how their battery vans will last with that caper ?


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## julian2002 (Jun 15, 2018)

Once you drive an electric car within it's capabilities (range / charging) you never want to go back to an ICE car. If I could afford a Tesla Model 3 I'd have one tomorrow as for me it'd be perfect, I work at home so commuting is not an issue, any journeys I do are either local or under 200 miles round trip and anything longer is always family based so we'd take my wifes car or just use the supercharger network which is very well integrated into Teslas sat nav / apps etc. by all accounts. Other manufacturers really need to catch up and the wild west that is the non supercharger charging network needs to consolidate and agree payment and socket standards before anything other than Tesla really makes any sense at all.

The leaf we had a few years back sadly had to go as our requirements changed. As the TM3 wasn't then available we plumped for the next best thing and got a hybrid, this was 10 years old when I bought it and is still going strong 3 years later, no sign of battery degradation beyond the single lost bar before i bought it, so I'm not really that concerned about battery life in other vehicles.


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## BobJ (Jul 2, 2017)

I can imagine overnight charging will be a breeze if you have a drive and or a garage. What about the on road parkers who maybe can't park in the same place each evening? Charge cables trailing across pavements/hedges/fences? Criminals nicking your juice during the night to charge their vehicles?

I don't think it's going to happen until cars can be fully charged in a couple of minutes at the current filling stations. Battery technology has got a way to go yet.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

julian2002 said:


> Once you drive an electric car within it's capabilities


 How does running in the winter with the heater full on affect the battery life/range ?


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> How does running in the winter with the heater full on affect the battery life/range ?


 Good question :thumbsup: and how are all the ancillaries affected when the battery's running out of juice ?


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## julian2002 (Jun 15, 2018)

winter running saw about a 10% drop in range from just over 100 miles to just over 90 miles (we had the cheapest leaf). Heater and other ancillaries made very little difference maybe 2 or 3%. so say a variance of 15% to be on the safe side. I'd expect that to be much better on modern longer range cars with better battery heat management.

To add: I think the lowest charge %age we ever got to was 2%, that gave us a warning but didn't effect any actual change in functionality.


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

WRENCH said:


> How does running in the winter with the heater full on affect the battery life/range ?


 With a petrol/diesel car the engine heats water which provides the heat in the car and you have a fan belt that drives the alternator to charge the battery that runs the heater fan. In an electric car you don't have this and therefore need an electric heater that takes power from the same battery that powers the car.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

richy176 said:


> With a petrol/diesel car the engine heats water which provides the heat in the car and you have a fan belt that drives the alternator to charge the battery that runs the heater fan. In an electric car you don't have this and therefore need an electric heater that takes power from the same battery that powers the car.


 Yes, I am aware of that, but I wondered how much of a difference it made to the battery reserve for propelling the vehicle. In my wife's last car, running in winter with all auxiliaries running it would knock off 6mpg , which equated to a reduction of around 50 miles per tank full.


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## wrenny1969 (Jun 24, 2008)

I had a look for how big a wind generator might be for the sole purpose of charging an electric car overnight , assuming there is sufficient wind/ the car needed charging. The article I read recommended a 3.2m wind turbine which seems a little large. There were some assumptions regarding 12 or 15k miles which for many is way over the top. I think we do about 300-350 miles a month now in a petrol car. A 1.6 metre turbine if it ran silently and topped up might suffice, for 4-5k miles a year?, though I think the turbines themselves come in at many thousands of £'s.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

wrenny1969 said:


> I had a look for how big a wind generator might be for the sole purpose of charging an electric car overnight , assuming there is sufficient wind/ the car needed charging. The article I read recommended a 3.2m wind turbine which seems a little large. There were some assumptions regarding 12 or 15k miles which for many is way over the top. I think we do about 300-350 miles a month now in a petrol car. A 1.6 metre turbine if it ran silently and topped up might suffice, for 4-5k miles a year?, though I think the turbines themselves come in at many thousands of £'s.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)




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## KAS118 (Mar 2, 2014)

WRENCH said:


>


 Very interesting - thanks for sharing :thumbsup:


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

WRENCH said:


> Yes, I am aware of that, but I wondered how much of a difference it made to the battery reserve for propelling the vehicle. In my wife's last car, running in winter with all auxiliaries running it would knock off 6mpg , which equated to a reduction of around 50 miles per tank full.


 No idea if this article is really accurate but it suggests winter driving will have a big impact - could be a 41% reduction in range.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/aaa-confirms-what-tesla-bmw-nissan-ev-owners-suspected-of-cold-weather.html


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

BobJ said:


> I can imagine overnight charging will be a breeze if you have a drive and or a garage. What about the on road parkers who maybe can't park in the same place each evening? Charge cables trailing across pavements/hedges/fences? Criminals nicking your juice during the night to charge their vehicles?
> 
> I don't think it's going to happen until cars can be fully charged in a couple of minutes at the current filling stations. Battery technology has got a way to go yet.


 The infrastructure is pretty much already there.

In my small court alone which is nearly all flats there are about a dozen car owners and just looking out my front window there are five street lights. Wire in a few charging points from them and the jobs done. Easily enough for everyone to have an over night charge up.

As said it could be done it's just a matter of a bit of a lifestyle adjustment.


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

BondandBigM said:


> The infrastructure is pretty much already there.
> 
> In my small court alone which is nearly all flats there are about a dozen car owners and just looking out my front window there are five street lights. Wire in a few charging points from them and the jobs done. Easily enough for everyone to have an over night charge up.
> 
> As said it could be done it's just a matter of a bit of a lifestyle adjustment.


 It would also help if all new houses had to have solar panels and batteries, especially on larger developments as the cost per house would be far lower with bulk buying.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

i would not want to charge one stood in a puddle.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> The infrastructure is pretty much already there.
> 
> In my small court alone which is nearly all flats there are about a dozen car owners and just looking out my front window there are five street lights. Wire in a few charging points from them and the jobs done. Easily enough for everyone to have an over night charge up.
> 
> As said it could be done it's just a matter of a bit of a lifestyle adjustment.


 https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/charging-electric-car-at-home

If public transport was brought to acceptable standard things will improve, and the change of lifestyle will be easier. Wonder how many charging points there'll be on the Boris bridge to Ireland ? :laughing2dw:


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## wrenny1969 (Jun 24, 2008)

Public transport is like public toilets - full of $hit.

The programmes we see on TV where "ticket inspectors" stake out buses and trains catching people who haven't paid their fares, though I admit this might just be a London thing. Then if you include the odd persons assaulted, like those lesbian ladies, or killed, as recently happened with the guy from Surrey taking his son to a football match.

No, public transport if for the; brave, stupid and those without a choice - I'll stick with my car thank you very much.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

wrenny1969 said:


> Public transport is like public toilets - full of $hit.


 ive never been on a bus, in fact when i was at uni in leeds in 1992, one of the comments in the student magazine was a list of things you never see and at number 2 was 'nigel pate on a bus' I went from otley to uni via my 635 csi BMW. I guess ive never been in the real world.

[IMG alt="Image result for nigelp bmw 635" data-ratio="75.00"]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/660/32481972785_04389c8525_k.jpg[/IMG]


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## julian2002 (Jun 15, 2018)

Never experienced the embarrassment of 'bus lob-on', having to make your way past the pension brigade with a trouser tent caused by the motion of the bus? Lucky man. :rofl:

I loathe buses, the smell, the noise, the other people. Only when I have zero choice will I board the devils charabanc.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Here's some info on grants available for e-vehicles.

https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-car-van-grants


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I can see the attraction of an electric car for regular short commutes especially if you have a garage or drive where you can park your car to charge overnight (I have neither!)

However using an electric car on a long run still has severe limitations, even using a supercharger (if you can find one) you are looking at 40 minutes for a Nissan Leaf (to around 80% charge) and about 75 minutes for a Jaguar i-Pace.

Living in London I mainly use public transport but when I do use my car it is typically for longer trips London - Somerset - London for example, I could do it with a Leaf or an i-Pace but would need to charge once for the return journey.

London to Teesside I would have to charge once or twice each way with the Leaf and I would be right on the limit with the i-Pace so would probably need a charge each way for this as well.

I sometimes do London-Somerset-Teesside-London and would need 2 or three charges each way and unless I am driving a Tesla there are no fast superchargers, some charging stations which run at a much lower kwh only allow you 45 minutes charge and say *"How far this gets you will depend on the range of your vehicle and the charging speed of your vehicle". *Sounds like it is a bit like putting £5 of petrol in the tank!

Great :laughing2dw:

Then there are holidays - rural charging points anyone?!!

So unless there is a massive increase in the number of superchargers for general use (not Tesla only chargers), with the current (excuse the pun) battery technology, then using electric cars for long distance travel is a non-starter or very difficult at best.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

wrenny1969 said:


> Public transport is like public toilets - full of $hit.
> 
> The programmes we see on TV where "ticket inspectors" stake out buses and trains catching people who haven't paid their fares, though I admit this might just be a London thing. Then if you include the odd persons assaulted, like those lesbian ladies, or killed, as recently happened with the guy from Surrey taking his son to a football match.
> 
> No, public transport if for the; brave, stupid and those without a choice - I'll stick with my car thank you very much.


 :laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:

You need to toughen up a bit

:biggrin:

I frequently use the local buses and trains, they are clean and in the case of the buses mostly new. They are reasonably priced and usually on time so even just to go into Middlesbrough by the time you add in parking cheaper and less hassle than taking the car. The train station is ten minutes walk from my flat and buses go from the top of the road.

I've never been mugged, assaulted or felt threatened even on the late buses, and for work I get on and off where one of those benefit street programs was filmed. Sure every now and again an inspector jumps on and checks ticket but that's no big deal. Most of the trains especially at the weekend have security on them.

I could easily live without a car and maybe just hire one now and then if I needed to.


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

BondandBigM said:


> :laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:
> 
> You need to toughen up a bit
> 
> ...


 My missus jacked in her job in Manchester partly because the trains were full every day and frequently late.

I only use the train a few times a year but they're always late.

Buses are ok though.


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## wrenny1969 (Jun 24, 2008)

BondandBigM said:


> :laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:
> 
> You need to toughen up a bit
> 
> :biggrin:


 Too many incidents like this in my opinion.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8124907/surrey-train-stabbing-man-killed-picture-suspect/

You can obviously do what you like cos you are a tough guy :teethsmile:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JoT said:


> Then there are holidays - rural charging points anyone?!!


 https://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/electric-boost-to-north-coast-500-s-green-credentials-1-4741890

there is a large expansion of charging points in rural areas in my locality.



Turpinr said:


> Buses are ok though.


 Buses are fine, I regularly use them to assist people (including a member of my own family) who have lost limbs, and require support to get about there daily life. Nothing like the pictures painted by the red tops and the "circle ****". I seem to remember some headline news a few years ago where a notorious criminal stabbed another road user to death in a road rage incident, I think he was possibly at the wheel of a BMW, or was it Range Rover ? Quite a lot of disabled people ( blind, army vets etc) depend on buses to get around, and it is shameful to discriminate against bus users, but I suppose they're an easy target for those who like to rattle the keyboard from the anonymity of their own safe surroundings.


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> https://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/electric-boost-to-north-coast-500-s-green-credentials-1-4741890
> 
> there is a large expansion of charging points in rural areas in my locality.
> 
> Buses are fine, I regularly use them to assist people (including a member of my own family) who have lost limbs, and require support to get about there daily life. Nothing like the pictures painted by the red tops and the "circle ****". I seem to remember some headline news a few years ago where a notorious criminal stabbed another road user to death in a road rage incident, I think he was possibly at the wheel of a BMW, or was it Range Rover ? Quite a lot of disabled people ( blind, army vets etc) depend on buses to get around, and it is shameful to discriminate against bus users, but I suppose they're an easy target for those who like to rattle the keyboard from the anonymity of their own safe surroundings.


 I suppose they're an easy target for those who like to rattle the keyboard from the anonymity of their own safe surroundings.

Sun and Mail readers perhaps??


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> I could easily live without a car and maybe just hire one now and then if I needed to.


 A long time mate of mine, and confirmed petrol head, has done that very thing. There's a local firm hires out "luxury" cars for £ 50- £60 a day, so he uses them when the need arises.

You can get this from Inverness to glasgow, with host, and hot and cold drinks, and it's comfortable.


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> A long time mate of mine, and confirmed petrol head, has done that very thing. There's a local firm hires out "luxury" cars for £ 50- £60 a day, so he uses them when the need arises.
> 
> You can get this from Inverness to glasgow, with host, and hot and cold drinks, and it's comfortable.
> 
> ...


 Free over 60's bus passes for you lucky lads and lasses too :thumbsup:

Not for us in England though, our free bus passes are as far away as state pension age


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Turpinr said:


> Sun and Mail readers perhaps??


 I would surmise a casual "side swipe" would be more like the correct assumption. :thumbsup:


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

JoT said:


> London to Teesside I would have to charge once or twice each way with the Leaf and I would be right on the limit with the i-Pace so would probably need a charge each way for this as well.


 You could just about do London to Newcastle on a full charge if conditions were perfect - warm day when you do not need heater or air conditioning. However, you would most likely break the journey anyway and many service stations have fast charging points so there should be no problems.

The real challenge will be to have sufficient charging points for the day when we all drive electric.


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/charging-electric-car-at-home
> 
> If public transport was brought to acceptable standard things will improve, and the change of lifestyle will be easier. Wonder how many charging points there'll be on the Boris bridge to Ireland ? :laughing2dw:


 Johnson's making his bridges out of the same material he used to make his buses, cardboard :laugh:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

richy176 said:


> The real challenge will be to have sufficient charging points for the day when we all drive electric.


 Possibly the way to go would be electric vehicles for local transport, and with the correct investment and forward planning/thinking, a decent public transport system (rail) for long journeys. Just imagine if Dr Beeching hasn't had his way, and the railway system had instead of being cut, been invested in and updated, and now all electric. The "Boris bridge" to Nothern Ireland, would possibly make more sense if it were an electrified rail bridge, operating similar to the channel tunnel system.


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## blackandgolduk (Apr 25, 2005)

BondandBigM said:


> The infrastructure is pretty much already there.
> 
> In my small court alone which is nearly all flats there are about a dozen car owners and just looking out my front window there are five street lights. Wire in a few charging points from them and the jobs done. Easily enough for everyone to have an over night charge up.
> 
> As said it could be done it's just a matter of a bit of a lifestyle adjustment.


 They've started doing this in London - makes a lot of sense.

I recently chopped in my old diesel Jag for an Mitsu Outlander PHEV. As our daily usage is about 15-20 miles, with the occasional long-run for holidays and visits etc. it made sense. Big motor with room for the kids and luggage, two electric motors making up 4WD, no road tax... It's parked on the street outside, but I plug it in most nights and rarely visit the petrol station. Pure EV range is up to 25 miles dependent on weather conditions and hills etc.

Even once the range is used up, on a motorway the engine kicks in and charges the batteries pretty quickly so I can switch back to EV mode. I'm a convert - quiet, instant torque, relaxing, practical and so far very reliable.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Until they make electric cars with removeable battery packs, they will never be useful unless you do short trips. If you wanted to drive to Scotland, go to Spain, Portugal, etc in a one trip, a currently available electric car won't do it without planning an overnight stop to recharge, whereas a normal car will do the journey with a couple of five minute stops for petrol/diesel. If they designed a removeable battery pack like a Makita drill, you could pull in, swap out your discharged battery pack, slide a charged one in and be away again in a few minutes. Obviously, there would need to be the equipment available to manhandle the pack, but recharging overnight ( if there's one available, and they're not all occupied) isn't a viable option at the moment. Battery packs would need to be standardised to fit any car.

On another note, this is where Dyson need to take a lesson from the tool manufacturers...why fit your device with a fixed battery pack? Supply it with two battery packs like all the major tool suppliers, so you can be using one while the other charges. Then there's no wasted 'downtime'. Shark have taken heed and supply two packs.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Roger the Dodger said:


> Until they make electric cars with removeable battery packs, they will never be useful unless you do short trips. If you wanted to drive to Scotland, go to Spain, Portugal, etc in a one trip, a currently available electric car won't do it without planning an overnight stop to recharge, whereas a normal car will do the journey with a couple of five minute stops for petrol/diesel. If they designed a removeable battery pack like a Makita drill, you could pull in, swap out your discharged battery pack, slide a charged one in and be away again in a few minutes. Obviously, there would need to be the equipment available to manhandle the pack, but recharging overnight ( if there's one available, and they're not all occupied) isn't a viable option at the moment. Battery packs would need to be standardised to fit any car.
> 
> On another note, this is where Dyson need to take a lesson from the tool manufacturers...why fit your device with a fixed battery pack? Supply it with two battery packs like all the major tool suppliers, so you can be using one while the other charges. Then there's no wasted 'downtime'. Shark have taken heed and supply two packs.


 I bumped into an old work colleague last week who has a Tesla, and been to London and back. I just checked on the charging times he told me and this confirms what I was told,

"Tesla supercharging stations charge with up to 150 kW of power distributed between two cars with a maximum of 150 kW per car, depending on version. They take about 20 minutes to charge to 50%, 40 minutes to charge to 80%, and 75 minutes to 100% on the original 85 kWh Model S."

apparently the Tesla model mentioned comfortably does around 300 miles on a charge, so based on the one way distance travelled of 475 miles, that's one charge stop.

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/findus/list/superchargers/United Kingdom


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

WRENCH said:


> I bumped into an old work colleague last week who has a Tesla, and been to London and back. I just checked on the charging times he told me and this confirms what I was told,
> 
> "Tesla supercharging stations charge with up to 150 kW of power distributed between two cars with a maximum of 150 kW per car, depending on version. They take about 20 minutes to charge to 50%, 40 minutes to charge to 80%, and 75 minutes to 100% on the original 85 kWh Model S."
> 
> ...


 ...and how many 'superchargers' are available at any one time, can they guarantee there will be one available when you turn up, or do you have to book one to be available if you're on a time limit...? I really don't think this has been thought through properly yet.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Roger the Dodger said:


> ...and how many 'superchargers' are available at any one time, can they guarantee there will be one available when you turn up, or do you have to book one to be available if you're on a time limit...? I really don't think this has been thought through properly yet.


 Apparently the on board computer tells you What is available. I don't think it's been thought out either, and hydrogen is the way to go, and the lesser of the two evils.

On a separate note,

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,under-18s-to-get-free-bus-travel-in-scotland-after-ministers-reach-budget-d_15173.htm

Which in theory could possibly mean you may well educate a new generation to use public transport. It's two years now since I last sat behind the wheel of a car, and I don't miss it. If a decent long range electric bike was available, I'd consider it.






Not really there, yet.


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

Roger the Dodger said:


> If you wanted to drive to Scotland, go to Spain, Portugal, etc in a one trip, a currently available electric car won't do it without planning an overnight stop to recharge, whereas a normal car will do the journey with a couple of five minute stops for petrol/diesel.


 Do you consider it safe to drive that distance with only a couple of five minute stops? We are not all going to be so desperate to get somewhere that we will risk our lives by driving when tired.

IF we all had to switch to electric cars on the same day then I doubt if the infrastructure would cope but that will not happen. It will be quite a few years after 2025 before petrol/diesel cars are just a memory and technology will have advanced to extend range and reduce the pressures on recharging.

Just look at what Tesla are doing - https://www.driving.co.uk/news/tesla-semi-electric-lorry-500-miles-range-autopilot/


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## Ocean_Jr (Feb 1, 2020)

richy176 said:


> o you consider it safe to drive that distance with only a couple of five minute stops? We are not all going to be so desperate to get somewhere that we will risk our lives by driving when tired.


 And also: How often are you realistically going to do the journey? If it's, let's say once a year, might be worth it to weigh the disadvantage of having to make an overnight stop / taking a rental car vs. the advantages the EV might bring you (especially if it's free charging at your workplace, for example).

I know BMW got the feedback from many European i3 owners that the range was sufficient except for the big 1-2 holidays they'd do every year, so they offered a rental deal with the leasing rate to get an SUV for the skiing trip, maybe a station wagon for the summer holiday.


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## KAS118 (Mar 2, 2014)

I see a new dedicated EV Service Station, with 24 Superchargers, will be opening this year in Essex http:// https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/gridserve-open-dedicated-ev-service-station-summer-2020

There's a lot more coming too.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Better get my C5 dusted down.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

WRENCH said:


> hydrogen is the way to go, and the lesser of the two evils.
> 
> If a decent long range electric bike was available, I'd consider it


 Are you sure about the hydrogen thing










On the motorbike this looks interesting.










https://silodrome.com/zero-xp-custom-electric-motorcycle/

Just an asides this is another good blog worth catching up on now and then.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> Are you sure about the hydrogen thing


 The secret is not to tow the Hindenburg behind you. :nono:



BondandBigM said:


> On the motorbike this looks interesting


 This looks unbelievable.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ep-1-a-500-kilometer-per-charge-superbike#/


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## Teg62x (Dec 28, 2016)

WRENCH said:


> This looks unbelievable


 I think the first sentence of the blurb says it all!

"the team have yet to build a working demo!" :sign_question:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Teg62x said:


> "the team have yet to build a working demo!" :sign_question:


 Maybe they've got a few Oris and Favre-Leuba purple dials to finish.

It's also a crowd funding thing as well, which, given some of the highly optimistic claims, I'll wait for a test ride.


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