# Uk Knife Law For Carrying Pen Knifes In Car Etc?



## Retronaut (Jun 14, 2010)

Seeing a Leatherman for sale on the boards reminded me that I would quite like to pick up a decent muti tool to keep either in the glovebox of the car or mounted on the seat frame next to my MagLite.

I've generally got a boot full of tools anyway but they look handy regardless.

Do I need to watch I don't fall foul of UK weapon / knife law and open to being accused by the Police of keeping a weapon to hand etc?

I'm sure there are plenty of real world regs I can Google but be interested in hearing from you guys as doubtless someone will know! 

Many thanks,

Rich.


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## stew1982 (Aug 24, 2012)

I'd be interested in this aswell, as I do carry my leatherman occassionally.


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## shadowninja (Apr 14, 2009)

Vaguely relevant, I was advised by one of my students to not leave my swords in my car unless I was travelling to or from a class. 

I do keep a leatherman-style knife in my car as it's a useful tool should you need to fix something minor.


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## tixntox (Jul 17, 2009)

UK knife laws link

Mike


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## Retronaut (Jun 14, 2010)

tixntox said:


> UK knife laws link
> 
> Mike


Thanks Mike

"Lock knives (knives with blades that can be locked when unfolded) are not folding knives, and are illegal to carry in public."

Does that mean Swiss Army knives that need you to press the mechanism to close them are illegal to carry then?


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## zed4130 (Jun 25, 2009)

Law states blade under 3inches and non locking,i carry a leatherman kick in my pocket with the blade changed for a leatherman file and I added scissors, i carry a spyderco ukpk, it's a non locking knife with a blade under 3 inches,i carry a leatherman surge or wave in a maxpedition organizer in my backpack, i also carry a swisschamp some days as a lovely pocket knife and covers most tasks,i've tried pretty much most multitools should so happy too help


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## zed4130 (Jun 25, 2009)

Some of my Leatherman's, i've got a original wave as well,



Spyderco ukpk


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## Retronaut (Jun 14, 2010)

Good stuff Zed - I need to study your post some more and look a few of them up! Thanks


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## zed4130 (Jun 25, 2009)

No problem mate,please ask if you need any help,I do strongly recommend the Victorinox swisschamp if you just want one handy pocket knife and add a dangler,I'll find a pic of mine,I pocket carry it with a home made dangler attached to my pocket,the sog pocket. Power pliers is another nice multitool and you can change the tools and buy other tools from Heinna Haynes .


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## zed4130 (Jun 25, 2009)

here you go the swisschamp is the top one and the lower one is my tinker,both great pocket knives


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## shadowninja (Apr 14, 2009)

If I carry a stick, a small penknife and a sellotape dispenser in the car, would I get in trouble? Could make a short spear in under a minute. :lol:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Up there I thought baseball bats would have been the more likely weapon of choice since they started sending people to Barlinnie if they got caught with swords.

:lol: :lol:


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## JTW (Jun 14, 2007)

BondandBigM said:


> Up there I thought baseball bats would have been the more likely weapon of choice since they started sending people to Barlinnie if they got caught with swords.
> 
> :lol: :lol:


Those American cultural influences again, I can remember when it would have been pickaxe handles.


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## Dr_Niss (Jan 4, 2011)

If you have a baseball bat or pickaxe handle in the car (or under the bed) that could be considered as a weapon but not a large maglite torch which is there in case of a breakdown in the dark (or a power cut).


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## bry1975 (Feb 6, 2004)

Those Mag's can certainly be USEFUL :starwars: etc.


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## johnbaz (Jan 30, 2005)

I recall a case on a shooting forum where a bloke had an air pistol in the glove box, it wasn't in a case or anything, the police searched his car and found the pistol, he ended up having a holiday at her maj's convenience!!

The car was deemed ' a public place' so as other people had access he was carrying an uncovered firearm in a public place 

As to carrying a knife in the car, i'm afraid I don't know but over on British Blades they say that even to carry a legal knife (blade under 3", non locking or switchblade etc) a valid reason to carry one was needed, ie for your work etc otherwise a jail sentence could me meted out 

John..


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## zed4130 (Jun 25, 2009)

It's down too the bobby on the beats interpretation of the UK knife laws,i carry a multitool when mountain biking as has come in handy so for me a good reason to carry it but might not be there's,this is the reason I mainly carry my modded leatherman kick, you could look for a knifless fuse but pretty hard too find these days, I also carry a leatherman s4 on my keys as has a very small non locking blade,


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## pugster (Nov 22, 2004)

bry1975 said:


> Those Mag's can certainly be USEFUL :starwars: etc.


yup....


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## DaveOS (May 9, 2010)

A lot of cabbies carry mag lites with them.

As for the knives, a mate of mine did jury service and sat on a case where a guy had been nicked while having his lunch in his car. He had used a Swiss Army Knife to cut into an carton and a policeman had seen it on the seat when walking past.

He got done for it I believe.


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## zed4130 (Jun 25, 2009)

I think in public you should sensible, i've carried a pocket knife or multitool since around 1982 with no issues as use it as a handy tool and don't whip the blade out in public view.


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## chris.ph (Dec 29, 2011)

i always carry my leatherman 300 on my belt in work and nobody including coppers has said anything....i am working on the refurbishment of the SCFC club shop at the moment and i was out in the car park of liberty stadium sharpening my estwing hatchet when an officer support unit went past, the copper driving just shook his head and carried on past me :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Retronaut (Jun 14, 2010)

Yep Maglites are right handy


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## Littlelegs (Dec 4, 2011)

There is a specific offence of carrying or possessing a bladed or pointed article in a public place. This can be used to arrest irrelevant of the blade size! Obviously the circumstances surrounding the possession would dictate whether you had a court appearance. Personally I take a leatherman or Swiss Army knife whilst camping and biking. Just gotta be sensible about what you do with it or where you use it...)


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## shadowninja (Apr 14, 2009)

Well, I now carry a tennis racket or two in the car. Harmless except I've trained in Escrima so I'm happy. And my topspin is getting good. 

And praise the Lord for this knife law. No stabbings at all in London these days. :wallbash: (IIRC there have been 4 deaths last week, mainly WIS on black gang stabbings.)


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## blackandgolduk (Apr 25, 2005)

Just to clarify a couple of points. It's legal to carry a non-locking folding pocket knife with a blade not exceeding 3"/7.62cm in length - items falling into this category are excluded from the category of 'bladed or pointed articles' for the purposes of the act and you would not ordinarily be asked to account for your possession of such articles. However, you could get nicked for possession of an offensive weapon or going equipped to steal/criminal damage etc. depending on the circumstances in which you were found to be in possession. I very much doubt that these circumstances apply to anyone here. Anything that differs from this description requires some form of justification - I have a Leatherman in the glove box because it's a useful tool, in a place that's easy to access and I could reasonably be expected to use all of the functions if I needed to fix my car. The same would apply whilst riding my bike. Multi tools are pretty safe to carry, as although they have a blade, it is not primarily a knife - it has many functions. The key thing to apply is common sense - I carry a Swiss Army knife in my pocket pretty much all of the time, but if I'm off to the pub or a club then I leave it in the kitchen drawer. Regarding the issue of MagLites, yes they're heavy and primarily a torch, but if you clump someone round the head with one, then it *could* become an offensive weapon - just something to keep in mind... Hope this all helps.


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## pugster (Nov 22, 2004)

unless you are ray mears i see no reason for anyone to carry a knife in public , you can cut someones throat with a 3" non locking blade as easy as any other knife , as john says above i 'think' you still need a valid reason if stopped with one.


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## blackandgolduk (Apr 25, 2005)

pugster said:


> unless you are ray mears i see no reason for anyone to carry a knife in public , you can cut someones throat with a 3" non locking blade as easy as any other knife , as john says above i 'think' you still need a valid reason if stopped with one.


 You *can* inflict injury with a 3" blade (offensive weapon), but assuming you're not up to mischief, then it doesn't qualify as a 'pointed or bladed article' as long as it folds and is non-locking. This makes it what is referred to as 'UK legal' i.e. no reasonable excuse or lawful reason for carrying it is required. Speaking as a copper, I need grounds to stop and search you anyway, so if I find myself in this situation then I'd probably be looking at other offences anyway. I could not, and would not, arrest someone for carrying a Swiss Army knife, for example, without any other aggravating factors. EDIT - I should add that the laws regarding knives and guns in the UK are pretty vague and sometimes confusing. For example, you can't walk around with an airgun out of it's case in a public place, but a broken unloaded shotgun in the middle of a railway station *technically* would be fine. A small knife and a shotgun are viewed, by the law at least, as reasonable possessions of a British citizen and are protected as such.


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## Littlelegs (Dec 4, 2011)

I agree with blackandgolduk's legal definitions as given. However, In practical terms if stopped on the street in possession of a multitool or pocket knife regardless of length you "could" be arrested. Obviously depending on the attendant circumstances. This is not to say you'll be charged with anything but could be detained and put in a cell until interviewed and have to provide a reasonable explanation for why you have the item. The vagueness of knife and firearms legislation does lend itself to confusion but adopt a common sense approach & you should be fine. As has been said above don't go out pubbing or clubbing with it, but you should be fine to take it biking/hiking etc Unless you're being a complete idiot most cops would adopt a common sense approach.


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## Jeremy Fisher (Jan 28, 2012)

Without going into the details, various legislation - primarily the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 and European Convention on Human Rights - ensures that the police cannot arrest or detain you without unless they have sufficient grounds to do so.

Carrying a legal knife is just that: legal. You aren't committing a crime, unless the officer in question has good grounds to detain you, any limitation on your freedom of movement is illegal. The definition of sufficient grounds is not found in legislation, but case law and police internal procedural rules indicate that the bar is set high.

Good reason would be, for example, if the officer in question is informed of a knife crime in the area and finds you with a similar knife on you, or if you try to hide the blade from the officer. Simply disliking you or thinking that you are "dodgey" is not sufficient.


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## Littlelegs (Dec 4, 2011)

I am pretty competent in the vagaries of PACE and the basics of ECHR, Which is exactly why I said "could be arrested" and "depending on the circumstances".

Eg if someone reported seeing you brandishing a knife you may be detained/arrested regardless of the blade length/type of knife.

Without becoming too complicated, as this is going beyond the original query, but there are not just weapon specific offences to consider. There are also the complexities of public order offences and the reporting persons perceptions/fears. Knife crime is a political hot potato at the moment and ALL forces are pushing for positive action. Officers do not just have to justify their actions at the present time but also any inaction. So I guess what I'm saying is sometimes its easier to detain or arrest and then release without charge rather than take the chance of doing nothing or taking what would seem to the layman a common sense approach, and suffering the wrath of the management.

As you say sufficient grounds is not particularly defined and is subject to perceptual distortion ie what one individual (police officer or civilian-works either way) sees is not necessarily what another sees or perceives. This is a natural phenomenon and well proven. As such sufficient grounds would be particular to the circumstance and or persons present.

I agree that to carry a so called legal knife is just that a legal act. However, this MAY not stop you being arrested or detained and made to account for why you have it in your possession at the relevant time/location. That was my original point.

A similar point would be that it is not illegal to possess a replica firearm or indeed carry one around in public. However, the likelihood of you being approached by armed officers and challenged at gun point whilst its removed from you if reported by a member of the public is huge. You make a bad decision then, when approached, and the consequences can be life changing, or ending! Extreme I know, but relevant.

So carry a pen knife or multi tool if you need, or want to, but be prepared to maybe justify your need or actions should you be questioned about it. Most cops adopt a reasonable approach to it unless your actions dictate otherwise.


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## pugster (Nov 22, 2004)

blackandgolduk said:


> pugster said:
> 
> 
> > unless you are ray mears i see no reason for anyone to carry a knife in public , you can cut someones throat with a 3" non locking blade as easy as any other knife , as john says above i 'think' you still need a valid reason if stopped with one.
> ...


i thought 'stop and search' rules had been changed due to terrorism laws ? ive been told the police have the power due to the changes to pretty much stop and search anyone and dont need a valid reason to do so but simply suspicion ? (this was told to me by a police officer)

*

Under what circumstances can I be stopped and searched?

You can always ask the police on what grounds they are stopping you. There are several possible answers:


She has definite grounds for suspicion. This will usually be under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 - but other laws such as the 1971 Misuse of Drugs Act, can also be used. The point is she must have a definite suspicion that you are carrying stolen or prohibited articles. If the stop is under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act they must tell you what they suspect you of.

An order under Section 60 of the Criminal Justice Act is in place in the area. This is more likely to apply on demonstrations or football matches where the police believe in advance that weapons may be used. *The police officer doesn't need any reason to suspect you in particular.*

He suspects you of being involved in 'terrorism'. Section 43 of the Terrorism Act.

An order under Section 47A of the Terrorism Act is in place in the area. *He doesn't need to have any reason to suspect you in particular.*


according to most of the kids round here 'wearing a hoodie' also comes under the above for stop and search  , the police around here bend the rules to please themselves, which is my experience of them anywhere to be honest.


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## Littlelegs (Dec 4, 2011)

Section 1 PACE and misuse of drugs Act grounds have not really changed at all to be honest in a long time.The ones you quote are probably the most used powers along with schedule 7 ports stops. All have differing levels for grounds/suspicion but again these will be relative to the circumstances. Terrorism is a bit of a special case really and again very political at the moment.

Essentially what you have listed is correct.

The point I was trying to make was that it being legal possession does not mean you may not get stopped searched or arrested. You may have a defence to possession but this may only come out on interview. An arrest doesn't necessarily mean a charge or court appearance either.


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## blackandgolduk (Apr 25, 2005)

pugster said:


> blackandgolduk said:
> 
> 
> > pugster said:
> ...


To answer your points in bold: A section 60 is only applicable where a decision has been made to enforce *random* stop and search powers, for example within a specified area at a Millwall v West Ham game. It allows officers to stop and search on the basis that there's likely to be some heavy tools hidden amongst some of those up for a scrap. It's a time limited and very specific power aimed at stopping trouble before it starts. It's fairly heavy handed by UK standards, but not widely used outside of areas where there's likely to be a flashpoint and cannot be used as an *everyday* power of search. A section 47A search can only be used in a force area where a Chief Constable has applied to the Home Secretary for the availability of the power, and the HS has to grant authorisation every 28 days. I believe the only area this was granted as a power was the City of London, but I stand to be corrected. The most common powers that I use to stop and search are Section 1 PACE and Section 23 Misuse of Drugs Act and I always have grounds for the search - I have no desire to spin someone on the street for the sake of handing in a Stop-Search form, I can always find better work than that.


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## wilhenri (Aug 26, 2013)

I have a collection of SAKs Wenger and Victorinox inncluding a Wenger Giant now you could carry that but at about kilo its better for clubbing someone than cutting..If anyone else has one I would be interested to know how many time you have taken a chunk out of yourself just handling it. This is a file photo but will put a pic of the collection as and when I get the safe open.


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## Kevinlesser (Aug 17, 2013)

The world we live in


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## Retronaut (Jun 14, 2010)

Just to come back to this thread - I picked up a Gerber Suspension tool for a very reasonable Â£23.

It has all locking tools incuding blades.

I've mounted it on the tailgate of my Jeep where I can get handy access without leaving the vaguaries of potentially being deemed to have a 'weapon' to hand in the cabin.

So far it's been useful as expected for quick opening / cutting tasks to save pulling the tooboxes out.

:cheers:

Rich.


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## Shiner (Mar 2, 2011)

This is the offensive weapon I was issued with, but I don't keep it in the car.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Shiner said:


> This is the offensive weapon I was issued with, but I don't keep it in the car.


'They didn't like it up 'em, Cap'n Mainwaring'....... :lol: ...Seriously, though, that's a nice display, Shiner...I particularly like the ships clock...I see there are two winding holes, one for the going train, and is the other for a chiming train?


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## Shiner (Mar 2, 2011)

Rog, Yes, it's a ships clock that strikes the eight bells of a '4 hour watch'. The striking of a ships clock is taken from the six 4 hour watches that makes up a day on board ship. So a 24 hour day is divided up in to 6 equal watches, each divided into 8 half hour slots, so the clock strikes every half hour. At 4 o'clock, 8 o'clock and 12 o'clock eight bells sound. This indicates the beginning of a new watch. Then at half past these hours one bell sounds, the next full hour, two bells and so on until eight bells sound to start a new watch.


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## bdc (Jan 15, 2008)

Trying to boil down the key points in response to the original post, as a magistrate my take on it has always been as follows.

"Legal" knife; OK to be carried and normally no reason need be given for doing so BUT if involved in an incident of violence or threats of violence then just carrying the knife, even if not taken out of your pocket etc, is an offence with a possible prison sentence. As you might get caught up in a row in a pub/club/soccer match/etc care is needed. An individual went to a school to remonstrate with a teacher about their child being given detention, the police were called as the teacher felt threatened, a small (about 4cm) knife was found on the parent and they were charged with carrying a bladed weapon: however they were not sentenced to custody.

Similarly threatening some-one with a knife in your possession, even if not opened, will be an offence.

Also, things such as 'parcel opening knives (those little sliding blade type things that can be the size of a coin) are not 'legal'.

Non-"Legal" knives such as kitchen knives, Stanley knives etc; you must have a good reason for carrying them if challenged although that is normally unlikely if they are being carried sensibly.

As always common sense will usually prevail but I would always advise a little thought about why you have a knife with you and where you might be going.


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