# Who Are The Real Watchmakers?



## Padraig (Jan 16, 2005)

Are there any real watchmakers left? Watchmakers that make cases, movements, dial etc. in house, Seiko perhaps?

Excuse my Naivety, but when I think about it, most 'brands' seem to use ETA or modified ETA movements, Asian produced cases and dials and can hardly be called Watchmakers.

I know some of the small indy makers, F.P Journe etc may make a watch from scratch, but what of the rest?


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## Nalu (Nov 28, 2003)

Chopard do it all in house for at least some of their models. Neil, among others, will know something about this.


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## namaste (May 8, 2003)

I think there are about 5 who make their own movements. JLC do most/all? of their movements in house. Chopard make the movement for their L.U.C. model ( These two I'm sure, i had one of their staff/ex-staff on the phone last night and asked!). R**** make their movements but fork ETA's in Tudors ?!?! (Guessing here), Blancpain and Piaget make their own, and another one...

Patek I think????

Just trying to get the ball rolling here...


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## Roger (May 17, 2003)

Zenith, I think


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## namaste (May 8, 2003)

Certainly the el primero, which R**** used in the Daytona at one point, which means R**** didn't /doesn't make all its movements...


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

How about the Russians?

Or do I have to say R*******


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

I'm pretty sure that Seiko, Citizen (Citizens have Miyota movements & Miyota are owned by Citizen) and Orient watches all use/manufacture their own movements & cases etc. Not sure about the Swiss companies but I'd have thought that Rolex were one of them - what about Audemars Piguet?

Also would have thought that the Russian companies (Poljot, Vostok, Raketa etc) made and used their own movements, cases etc


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## Nalu (Nov 28, 2003)

Vacheron Constantin make at least some of their own movements also. There was a post somewhere recently about their new "most complicated watch in the world" GC.


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

By my definition of "real watchmakers", none of the above names fit the description.

All churn out watches in theor thousands each year, and most buy in dials, hands, cases, and movment parts willy-nilly.

Even Vacheron Constantin makes 12,000 watches a year (and as far as I can see from Ebay and internet dealers a lot of them are flogged off on the grey market).

Seiko is probably the nearest thing to mass producer that supplies all its own needs.

"Real watchmaking" in my view anyway is done by individuals making, on their own, a few entirely hand crafted pieces a year.

Si


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## namaste (May 8, 2003)

Ok, got it now. You're thinking about nutcases like this German guy who makes watches, I think 2 different movements, from the ground, every little wheel and tooth cut out on the premises...

If I can find his name and the website I'll post it (if allowed?).


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Dirk Dornbluth?


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Yup, those nutcases!

I'm not too sure, but I think even Dirk Dornbleuth starts off with a Unitas base, for some of his watches at least.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Just had a quick look at his website. He seems to imply that most of the parts for most of his movements are made on site. Therefore I assume that a few standardised parts are used and some movements are bought in.


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Here's a link to a (non-commercial) TimeZone article about D Dornbleuth.

Redefining the Art of German Watchmaking



> Q: Speaking of the Unitas caliber. To my knowledge, literally everything in your watch is handcrafted by you but for the wheel train of the 6497?
> 
> A: Well, the balance wheel and components like the Incabloc shock protection are not ours. The case and the dial are done by others as well and so is the engraving. We are particularly glad about our cooperation with Cador in Loerrach for our dials.


Not doubting for a moment his incredible skill, just pointing out how rare it is that some single individual makes *everything*.

Si


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Indeed. The more I think about it the more I doubt that there's anyone who manages to keep 100% of all the parts and processes in-house. Especially if you consider things like jewels, screws, springs, crystals...


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## namaste (May 8, 2003)

Thanks for Dirk's link, it's on my other computer.

Isn't there someone making clocks entirely out of wood? He might be the odd one out!


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## adrian (May 23, 2004)

Maybe Girard Perregaux, JLC and Rolex as 'mass producers'.

I think Van der Klaauw, Calabrese, Phillips are making their own movement/cases. Also Jorg Schauer makes his own cases but he is using ETA.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

I consider myself a watch maker.










There are none that make everthing themselves, it is just not possible.


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

''Blessed are the watchmakers''

'' Thats nice, Im glad they get something cos they have a hellova time...''


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## Padraig (Jan 16, 2005)

Roy said:


> I consider myself a watch maker.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How much do you make? do you buy the movements in, as well as the cases, dial, etc and put them together?

No offence Roy and kudos to you for your efforts, but how can you claim to be a watchmaker?


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

> but how can you claim to be a watchmaker?


Because the components in themselves arnt watches, we call Ford, GM etc car

manufacturers but they dont make all the components...









An artist buys in canvas and paint......









Roy makes his own dials.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Padraig said:


> No offence Roy and kudos to you for your efforts, but how can you claim to be a watchmaker?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly as Jason states, I make watches out of components.

Which is more than many watch manufacturers do. They just order complete watches and have their name put on the dials.


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## Padraig (Jan 16, 2005)

Roy said:


> Padraig said:
> 
> 
> > No offence Roy and kudos to you for your efforts, but how can you claim to be a watchmaker?
> ...


Excellent, it's always refreshing to hear of a true artisan, I look forward to buying my first RLT made watch, as soon as you remove England from the dial!!!!


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Ok, just for you I'll put "Made South of Scotland"


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)




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## Padraig (Jan 16, 2005)

cheeky bugger


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Padraig, How about you pay for Roy and Mrs Roy to stay in a nice hotel in Scotland for a long weekend, he can bring his kit and make a RLT watch whilst he is there, then of course it would be 'Made in Scotland'










BTW allways be wary of Scots with different coloured eyes....


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## Paul (Mar 2, 2003)

Hi all,

Interesting article in todays _Independent_ about Frank Muller and his watches. He states that all are made inhouse.

Still wouldn't pay Â£36000 for one like Dwight Yorke.

Paul D


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Paul said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Interesting article in todays _Independent_ about Frank Muller and his watches. He states that all are made inhouse.
> 
> ...


I would not pay Â£10 for anything that looked like Dwight Yorke.









Sorry.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

namaste said:


> Thanks for Dirk's link, it's on my other computer.
> 
> Isn't there someone making clocks entirely out of wood? He might be the odd one out!
> 
> ...


Does anybody know if you can still buy those build it yourself wooden pendulum clock kits?



jasonm said:


> ''Blessed are the watchmakers''
> 
> '' Thats nice, Im glad they get something cos they have a hellova time...''
> 
> ...


Jase did you go to the same school as me?









btw I don't think he meant specifically watch makers but all makers of horological products?











Paul said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Interesting article in todays _Independent_ about Frank Muller and his watches. He states that all are made inhouse.
> 
> ...


Which house exactly? Those Muller things are







In my not humble at all oppinion!

Anyway I thought Roy's were all "in shed"


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

pg tips said:


> Anyway I thought Roy's were all "in shed"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't have a "shed".


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## AlexR (May 11, 2003)

I thought the shed comment a little off Paul
















Roy leave Bridlington,It will never happen,if he leaves the magic is lost and he turns back into a pumpkin


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

I can't even leave the house never mind Bridlington.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

They only have sheds on tuther side.


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

We have sheds on this side as well...this is a nice dry, warm shed...where broken watches are brought back to life...


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

I remember that now Paul, a shed within a garage isn't it?


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Stan said:


> I remember that now Paul, a shed within a garage isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It sure is....and still the neighbours don't understand









I'm the "stange man who lives at Number 1"
















And look at all those empty boxes brought by the postman...if I hadn't of bought those watches and clocks....I'd be rich(er).


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## abraxas (Oct 21, 2003)

Paul said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Interesting article in todays _Independent_ about Frank Muller and his watches. He states that all are made inhouse.
> 
> ...


Time is money (or why the world is queueing up to buy a Â£36,000 watch)

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=612485

john


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## Roger (May 17, 2003)

> BTW allways be wary of Scots with different coloured eyes


Jase,

Surely you dont mean Groundskeeper Willie ??


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

Roy said:


> I consider myself a watch maker.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


IWC claim to. Which bits can't they do. Balance spring? Most have Breguet if i'm right?


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

> Surely you dont mean Groundskeeper Willie


No, look at Paddys profile


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## AlexR (May 11, 2003)

IWC dont make their own movements except for the one,in the Big Pilot.They use stock ETA movements and change a few bits and then finish them to a high standard.Even the Grand Complication is not an in house movement.Not that it matters at all IMO


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