# The Elgin 725



## watchnutz (Jan 18, 2008)

In March of 1952, five years before the introduction of the Hamilton electric watch, the Elgin National Watch Co. introduced the "the electronic wristwatch of tomorrow", in Chicago. At that time no prediction was made on when it would be marketed. Development took longer than expected and costs became prohibitive to the then struggling company leading to a ten year delay before test marketing the watch. By that time Hamilton had released the 500 and Bulova, the Accutron. Early on, Elgin exchanged information with LIP of France, who was also doing research on electronic watches, but each continued it's own research and each introduced it's own watch in 1952.

In 1962 Elgin released the Lord Elgin into a test market in the Chicago area. It had the 725 movement with 15 jewels, 6 adjustments and was the small 8/0 size It had a beat of 18,000 and what was called a Parechoc shock system. It also had a hacking feature allowing use of a seconds hand. It also had a stationary or fixed coil. It was called an electronic since it had a diode across the coil for spark suppression. There also was a preproduction movement designated 722 that was even smaller. Some of the early movements had two cells while the latter ones had only one.

The Lord Elgin 725 was made in two styles of one piece cases made by the Star Watch Case Co.. They were backset cases and one was a 29mm 10k yellow gold filled and the other a larger stainless steel. There were dial variations and a total of six models altogether. The original ones did not have a battery hatch but later ones did. The 725 was released in very limited quantities in a test market in the Chicago area. Many of the watches turned out to be defective and not well suited for strenuous activity. Elgin issued credits for self winding watches for return on defective watches and abandoned the project by destroying the remaining movements at the factory. As a result very few of the 725 watches survived.

It is my SWAG (scientic wild azzed guess) that fewer then one hundred survive today. I know of one other member that has one and once in a while one will show up on Ebay. Mine came from a very well known collector who lived in the Chicago area. (no surprise there) He had at least five in his possesion and sold mine and another with no reserve on Ebay. Seeing he had offered more than one I got in touch with him to see if he might have any more so Hawk might get one. I found out then he had the others but, with our interest, the price went to twice what I payed. He then put them on Ebay at the high BIN and they did not sell. He passed away soon after and his vast horological possessions were sold by a prominent auction house.

I hope this will be of interest to my fellow electic watch enthusiasts.


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

watchnutz said:


> so Hawk might get one


Hawk still doesn't have one. 

Nice write up Bill.  Some seem to take one battery while others take two...do you know what that's all about? :huh:


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## martinus_scriblerus (Sep 29, 2008)

Thanks for the write up. I presume the Chicago collector was Rick Chandler. I bought a number of items at his sale, but I do not recall seeing any Elgin electric watches, and I also recall sharing the list with Paul.

Any further ideas about what may have happened?


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

martinus_scriblerus said:


> I presume the Chicago collector was Rick Chandler. ... but I do not recall seeing any Elgin electric watches


It was ... and there were a couple in the auction.


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## watchnutz (Jan 18, 2008)

Paul, I really haven't been able to find much on the two cell vs one story. Fried says only that earlier models employed the two in parallel and that would have to be the cases that did not have the battery hatch. He shows the arrangement on page 150 of the blue cover repair manual. I would also assume the 722 had that arrangement but I have no documents on that version. The fact they are in parallel would suggest that it was for longer life with the power drain, no? Also interesting is that in his drawings it appears as though the polarity reversed between the two versions!

Yes, Dave, as Paul said it was Rick (tic-toc). I guess he was ailing when I had my phone conversations with him since he couldn't seem to lay his hands on things right at that moment. He also sent me a watch on consignment to see if I wanted it. When I kept it and paid him he said he didn't know what I was talking about since he didn't sell watches on consignment. I gave him the details and then he remembered.


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## martinus_scriblerus (Sep 29, 2008)

Paul:

We really screwed up.

This page:

Elgin Electronic - Tom Harris Auctions

Sold for $175.00 plus buyers premium (call it 200 bucks).


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## harleymanstan (May 29, 2009)

I bought one of these recently on ebay. It was in a watch lot with a Hamilton Electric Taurus. Unfortunately, I can't get it to run. It is missing the crown off of the back. Otherwise it is complete. Does anyone know where I might find a crown for this watch? I'm told that it has a hole in the middle, and is held in by a screw. Any suggestions?

I'll post pictures of it soon. What did the guy that had them sell them for?

Thanks,

harleymanstan


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

harleymanstan said:


> Does anyone know where I might find a crown for this watch? I'm told that it has a hole in the middle, and is held in by a screw. Any suggestions?


Yes...buy a back set Timex electric and use the crown from that...they must be quite similiar.


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## watchnutz (Jan 18, 2008)

harleymanstan said:


> I bought one of these recently on ebay. It was in a watch lot with a Hamilton Electric Taurus. Unfortunately, I can't get it to run. It is missing the crown off of the back. Otherwise it is complete. Does anyone know where I might find a crown for this watch? I'm told that it has a hole in the middle, and is held in by a screw. Any suggestions?
> 
> I'll post pictures of it soon. What did the guy that had them sell them for?
> 
> ...


It does have a set wheel with a screw in the center. As Paul said a Timex might work but if you have the gold case 725 it would not match. The gold Timex wheel did not have the screw in the center.

I paid around $250 (don't remember exact) on a no reserve auction from him. He later had a BIN over $500 and they did not sell. The thing with these is that, unless you are into horological history, it does not have great value. Particularly because of it's small size and absence of parts availability.


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

watchnutz said:


> ... it does not have great value...


Bill is right...it's worthless but I'm willing to give you $25 for yours :lol:.


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## harleymanstan (May 29, 2009)

I think I'll hold on to it for now. :wink2:

harleymanstan


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## Larry from Calgary (Jun 5, 2006)

Silver Hawk said:


> Nice write up Bill.  Some seem to take one battery while others take two...do you know what that's all about? :huh:


The first Elgin Electronic displayed to the press in 1952 was an open-through-the-front type that was designed to operate with an Elgin engineered battery. Unfortunately these had a tendency to leak and were not reliable. Elgin, unlike Hamilton was involved in all phases of cutting edge technology, miniature battery design included. It was always intended that a buyer would return the watch to an authorized Elgin dealer to have the battery changed. By the time Elgin released their Electronic 725 to market in 1962, Mallory had a proven track record with their designed and manufactured "button battery" which had proven itself in the early Hamilton 500 series electrics.

In early 1962 Elgin quickly modified their case design by adding a rear battery hatch to house a single Mallory battery. I'll post a picture of both cases. Elgin released a 2nd generation 725 with a slightly larger SS case with a purposely designed rear battery hatch.

Elgin 725 1952 original release



















Cont'd


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## Larry from Calgary (Jun 5, 2006)

Larry from Calgary said:


> Con't


More pictures

Elgin 725 1962 single battery modified case release










Elgin 725 1963 release SS case





































Larry


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Thanks Larry...so as a rule of thumb, is it:

No battery hatch = 2 batteries

Battery hatch = 1 battery

:huh:

If those are all yours, very nice and rare collection... :cool2:


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## watchnutz (Jan 18, 2008)

Larry! Good to see you stranger. Are you back home yet?

Thanks for adding that. I had figured out the battery hatch was the change but not the reason. I didn't know you had added the second one but knew you were on the hunt. You were who I was referring to as "another member" in the original post.

Cheers


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## Larry from Calgary (Jun 5, 2006)

watchnutz said:


> Larry! Good to see you stranger. Are you back home yet?
> 
> Thanks for adding that. I had figured out the battery hatch was the change but not the reason. I didn't know you had added the second one but knew you were on the hunt. You were who I was referring to as "another member" in the original post.
> 
> Cheers


Yup, I'm back from my field assignment and on to one year of wife making her "honey-do" list. Not sure which is worse. At least I can come home to some home cooking.

The open-thru-the-front design was a selling feature of the 725 Electronic to Elgin's distribution and repair centres, guaranteeing them yearly income. Elgin saw it as a trade-off since the Electronic would take less time to repair.

Larry


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## Larry from Calgary (Jun 5, 2006)

Silver Hawk said:


> Thanks Larry...so as a rule of thumb, is it:
> 
> No battery hatch = 2 batteries
> 
> ...


"No battery hatch = 2 batteries

Battery hatch = 1 battery"

Here are a couple of photo's clearly showing the foot-print of two batteries, supporting that theory. I'm sure that the addition of the battery hatch was to meet perceived competitive selling features. In 1962 Elgin was trying hard to catch up with their product offering.




























All three of these are mine. Thanks for the compliment Paul.

:thumbsup:


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

:thumbup: Finally...*FINALLY*...I can join this most exclusive of clubs...as I won one --- thanks Larry & Bill, for the heads up and staying away :thumbsup:.

No more...










...on my web site for this movement. Pictures from the seller:


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Well done Paul! Look forward to seeing pics on the site! :yes: (Guessed you might have acquired one when the thread was resurrected after so long! :toot: )


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## Larry from Calgary (Jun 5, 2006)

Congratulations. It's about time. :thumbsup:

I pretty sure this piece is the last of Chandlers' collection to be sold.

In an earlier post I think it was Bill that said he thought there may be a hundred or less of these watches known to exist.

Well done Paul.


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## watchnutz (Jan 18, 2008)

:clapping: Glad you got it my friend. As much as I would have liked to add the larger, *NON GOLD*, one to the collection I wanted more to see you finally get one.

And to think I also recently paid for it !! :derisive:

I think Larry could be right. I know Rick had one of these models left and it was one he offered to sell you for $500. He certainly must have had more of them than anyone else.

I guess this removes the ban from posting 725s, eh?


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## harleymanstan (May 29, 2009)

Congratulations, Paul. Welcome to the "Club." :cheers:

Here's mine again.

harleymanstan


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

watchnutz said:


> I guess this removes the ban from posting 725s, eh?


 :lol: I'd forgotten about that! Yes, ban lifted. :rofl:


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## dombox40 (Oct 20, 2008)

Well done Paul a triumph of patience looking forward to the pics. :thumbsup:


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Forgot to mention...seller added this to his description towards the end of his auction...clearly we are the experts on all things Elgin 725.









"THIS LORD ELGIN ELECTRONIC WATCH AND THE ONE I SOLD 2 WEEKS AGO ARE FROM THE RICK CHANDLER ESTATE MENTIONED IN THIS ARTICLE IN THE "WATCH FORUM" LINK http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=48244"


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## ixor2 (Mar 13, 2010)

Silver Hawk said:


> Forgot to mention...seller added this to his description towards the end of his auction...clearly we are the experts on all things Elgin 725.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi All 725 enthusiasts. When I was younger and very enthusiastic about all electric watches I acquired a number of these (stainless steel cases) all "needing a little attention". I have a feeling that they came from Canada.

Anyway the point of my posting is that these have lain fallow ever since which is a bit of a shame as they really only need the skilled kind hand. I am reluctant to place them on Ebay so I am seeking advice as to whether I should advertise them on the Watch Forum.

Regards

Jim


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

ixor2 said:


> Silver Hawk said:
> 
> 
> > Forgot to mention...seller added this to his description towards the end of his auction...clearly we are the experts on all things Elgin 725.
> ...


I'd certainly be very interested in these....you can email at [email protected]


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## Larry from Calgary (Jun 5, 2006)

ixor2 said:


> Silver Hawk said:
> 
> 
> > Forgot to mention...seller added this to his description towards the end of his auction...clearly we are the experts on all things Elgin 725.
> ...


 

I'd also be interested in these. Any chance of you posting some pictures? If you prefer you can also contact me via email through any of the moderators.

:hi:


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