# Seiko Skx007 Vs. O&w M-4?



## Max Ernst (Jul 13, 2006)

Good morning. I am considering the purchase of an inexpensive desk-diver and am wondering if anyone familiar with these two watches has an opinion as to their relative merits (opinions on the M-6 GMT and/or WCT "precision" divers also welcome).

One advantage I can think of w/r/t to the O&W watches is that they can be had with a sapphire crystal, whereas the Seiko only comes with hardened mineral; on the other hand, the Seiko is available with the solid-link "super oyster" bracelet, which appears to be of higher quality than the standard O&W bracelet. Also, while I suspect that the O&W's ETA 2824-2 movement is better than the Seiko's 7S26, I'm not sure how much better. Finally, I like the red 24-hr readings on the dial of the O&Ws, but understand that the lume on the Seiko is much better.

I guess I should expect that there would be a lot of trade-offs either way, given the relative affordability of all of these watches -- and unfortunately, I can't spend very much more than about $300 USD (Â£160, I think).

By the way, I'm new around here (I've been lurking about on this and the O&W forum for a while), and want to congratulate you (and Roy) on maintaining such an excellent resource.

Cheers,

MLE


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## ETCHY (Aug 3, 2004)

Hi Max & welcome to the Forum

I've owned an M5 (just has a different bezel) & i'm wearing my 007 now (I got both from Roy, whom I can recommend).

Of the two I prefer the 007, it's a bigger chunkier watch (which I like) & I've always thought it looks fantastic, especially on a 'bond' NATO strap.

The O&W however was more accurate & if it's important to you it can 'hack'.

The fit & finish of both was similar, the Seiko has a wonderful finely notched bezel, the O&W had a lovely positive screw down crown.

They're both fine watches but for me the 007 has the edge mainly 'cos i prefer it's looks.

I hope that helps

Good luck

Dave


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Welcome to the forum Max









Like you say, both watches have their relative merits, both watches have rock solid reputations, I guess it will come down to whatever you like the look of best


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## Running_man (Dec 2, 2005)

Hello Max,

I can't comment on the 007 but I do have a SKX779 (AKA Black Monster) which has the same movement as the 007. I also have the O&W M4 with sapphire crystal.

I have to say that the O&W wins it for me. The fact that I can handwind it and the seconds can hack is a must and I can't do this on the Seiko. The Seiko's accuracy is very poor compared to the O&W - I had to regulate mine to get it down to +5 seconds per day from +20. Despite this, for the money, the Seiko's are still very good value and I wouldn't be without mine.

As Jason said, it's all down to what you like the look of the most.

Andrew.


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## MIKE (Feb 23, 2003)

Both excelent watches for the money









For me, I like the smaller size of the O&W. making it that bit more comfortable to wear.

With an O&W you also have a Swiss watch thats not so common with the general public. Plenty of people (non collectors) have Seiko's.

As the rest have said you pay your money and take your choice. You will not go wrong with either.

If I had to sell the collection







the Seiko's would go before the O&W's









Mike


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## grayman (May 25, 2006)

All the comments on this thread have been right on target. In many ways the choice between an O&W and a Seiko is a matter of personal taste and need. To add my 2 cents, a priority for me is excellent accuracy. Good lume for night use is also a must. I currently own 2 O&Ws: A stock WCT model with sabre hands and a Milspec dial from WCT. It does does not have the date cyclops and is date-less. The other is a MkII from Bill Yao that is customised with a MoD no-date dial and MoD Sword hands. Both watches have rugged construction, sturdy bezels, and fine accuracy (i.e., about 5 sec. +/day). The lume on the WCT is good, that on the YAO is great. Both watches "hack" for precise adjustment. I've had excellent service from the bracelet on the YAO-- comfortable and strong. The WCT is on a 2 piece Zulu strap, which is also rugged and comfortable. All in all, both are excellent choices.

Although I really like the design of the Seiko 007s, I've resisted getting one because these models, using the 7S56 movement, are much less accurate, can not be hand-wound, and do not "hack." However, if Seiko made the 007 with a hand-wound movement that hacked (like an ETA 2801-2), I'd jump on it.

What you need determines what you buy. Hope this is of help.

Grayman


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## Max Ernst (Jul 13, 2006)

Many thanks to all that responded -- this has been tremendously useful. To some extent, I think what's holding me back on the O&W is the Merc hands, which for some reason I've never liked, but the accuracy and hacking movement are definite plusses, as is the available sapphire xtal. Guess I'll just have to save for both!

Cheers,

MLE


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## Running_man (Dec 2, 2005)

Max Ernst said:


> Many thanks to all that responded -- this has been tremendously useful. To some extent, I think what's holding me back on the O&W is the Merc hands, which for some reason I've never liked, but the accuracy and hacking movement are definite plusses, as is the available sapphire xtal. Guess I'll just have to save for both!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> MLE


If you don't like the merc hands, you could save up for slightly longer and get the O&W ID3077 which has a completely different style of hands and markers.

Andrew.









Welcome to the forum by the way!


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## jonsedar (Mar 13, 2005)

I had the near exact same dilemma about this time last year: Seiko SKX007 which does look great (love those indicies) Vs O&W M4.......

I was mostly wowed by the fact that the street price of the Seikos was Â£250, whereas I could have em from Roy around Â£150 cheaper! However I tried a few on and just couldnt get on with the polish on the underside, and it looked pretty big on my (somewhat fat challenged) wrists.

Thought I'd have a punt on the O&W and I know I got it right. The quality is great: case, dial, bracelet all feel solid and 'good', the movement is near spot on thanks to Roy's pre-sale regulating and it has that certain cache that you'll never see another one being sported by the average bloke on the street.

I was hesitant about the merc hands and particulary the cyclops, but they grew on me and there's nothing I think doesn't 'fit' about the watch. It is of itself and doesnt need anything added or taken away.

The smaller size makes it more versatile for desk-diving and more subtle wear. I've also pimped it out with a variety of nato and rubber straps to change the look every now and then.

My M4 is a staple, reliable watch to which I know I can always return after trying others and I always wonder why I dont wear it more often!

EDIT: gratuitous pic!










Jon


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

O & W every time, although mine is the M5.

With the M5 you also have a watch which is as good as a Sub., and certainly the Tudor version at the very least!!!





















































The 007 isn't hackable or self winding, the latter being the most irritating of all


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

Why is hand winding so inportant when all it takes is a shake to get the Seiko running? If money's an issue then the 007 wins every time since it's at least Â£50 cheaper than the O & W. I've had a couple of O & W divers & don't like the cyclops, the Mercedes hour hand or the fact that it looks like a bloody R*l*x!!

As for the sapphire/hardlex crystal debate when was the last time you smashed or scratched a Seiko crystal (or any crystal for that matter) & isn't there an arguement that sapphire crystals whilst stronger than mineral crystals are actually more brittle?

Regarding the movements isn't the ETA2824-2 supposed to be more susceptible to wear than the Seiko 7S26, which isn't particularly accurate out of the box but this improves after a couple of months when the movement's had a chance to run in. I suppose it would be nice to have a hacking movement but how often (once set to a particular time source) do you check how far out the watch is? I've never been that bothered about the accuracy of a mechanical watch (though I can see the appeal in regulating a mechanical watch to give near quartz like accuracy) - if you are so concerned about accuracy then you'd be better off getting a quartz watch anyway.

I'd take the Seiko because of it's value for money, excellent reliabilty, in house movement, excellent fit & finish. Also the luminosity of the 007 is legendary & second to none and it doesn't look like anything else (if it does then it's the Seiko that's been copied)


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

I was thinking about an M4 but Paul is pushing me towards the Orange Knight. Not sure about the lugs but it is great value at Â£95.

And the M4 does look awfully like my Invicta 8926.


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

MarkF said:


> I was thinking about an M4 but Paul is pushing me towards the Orange Knight. Not sure about the lugs but it is great value at Â£95.
> 
> And the M4 does look awfully like my Invicta 8926.


I've had a few of the knight series of Seiko's - an automatic black knight on bracelet, a black dialled auto on rubber strap & a black dialled quartz - & all were excellently made watches. The lume was fantastic, timekeeping on all three was good & build quality excellent (a cut above the 007 in my opinion).

I'd have another of the bracelet (which is very nice indeed) versions - quartz or auto - in a heartbeat


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

> Regarding the movements isn't the ETA2824-2 supposed to be more susceptible to wear than the Seiko 7S26


No, I wouldn't think it is.

I think it is a fallacy that high beats wear faster, and I don't believe it can be proved or has been proved.

The finish on the 7S26 is not in the same class as the ETA IMO

The non hack and non manual wind is an irritating omission.

You might not want an auto only if you ever get laid up in hospital, but hope non of us have that happen

Definitely O & W for me.

I have heard that Hardlex crystals can scratch like mad and look a right mess when they do. Sapphire is a welcome option on a M series


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