# Work and Commercial Vehicles of the Past



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Here's another example. Going back 20+ years, I used supply and operate these things for roof surveys etc. Weighed over 2 1/2 tons and a Land Rover was required for shifting it.










Now you do it with this, out of the boot of a car.


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

WRENCH said:


> Here's another example. Going back 20+ years, I used supply and operate these things for roof surveys etc. Weighed over 2 1/2 tons and a Land Rover was required for shifting it.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you do it with this, out of the boot of a car.


 you need something like that to lift the masts out of those sail boats. vin


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

I have been trying to get in touch with some old workmates to see if anyone has kept any pictures of these, and figures crossed, one reckons there are some in boxes in his loft. Anyway , a bit bigger than some work tools of yesteryear, but a work tool non the less.

AEC Matador (Associated Equipment Company)

In original military trim. From Wikipedia.



















I don't remember ever being in one with a cab heater, they had no sound proofing, with the engine almost in beside you,










and straight from the military they had no indicators. Right turns was a hand signal out of the drivers window, and left turns were indicated by means of a lever operated by the driver, which produced a semaphore "flag" like a small railway signal, to pop out from the left hand side of the cab rear. These vehicles were extremely durable, versatile and because the axles were as close to the front and back extremities of the chassis and had good suspension articulation, gave them exceptional off road capabilities, which is where I came to use them, as forestry tractors. From Pinterest.










Due to a loophole/grey area in the law, these vehicles could be registered and used for agricultural purpose, which meant no MOT tests, and running on Gas Oil (red diesel). On the road MPG was around 10, and a hard days work dragging heavy timber in difficult terrain would easily halve that. The cabs were wood (ash) framed, clad with sheet steel, which offered very little in the way of safety protection in the dangerous environment of timber extraction, and the noise was unbearable. The under floor mounted winch had a pull of 7 tons, but this could be multiplied with the use of pullies. The winch could also be used, and I have done so, to pull the truck up, or let it down, some otherwise impossible slopes. These vehicles at one time could be bought for little or nothing, but they are now sought after by collectors. What is surprising, I know of two which are/were still used for specialist forestry work well into the 21st century, quite an accomplishment for an 80 year old vehicle.

By the early 1980's I'd moved on to purpose built equipment.










I've seen this particular machine (not in my hands) laid on its side a few times by dangerous idiots, that had it been one of the old Matadors, fatalities would almost surely have been their sad endings.

The old Matadors would take a severe pounding, and although the owners manual had a rigorous maintenance schedule, they very rarely got touched until something failed.

It wasn't long after the last photo was taken that I changed from operating the machinery, to buying, selling, and repairing it for a living.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

WRENCH said:


> I have been trying to get in touch with some old workmates to see if anyone has kept any pictures of these, and fingers croseed...


 Really interesting addition to the thread, @WRENCH. Thanks for posting. :thumbsup:


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## eezy (Apr 13, 2018)

WRENCH said:


> AEC Matador (Associated Equipment Company)
> 
> In original military trim. From Wikipedia.


 Always wanted to have a drive in a Matador but it never happened. Surprised the pedals are in the correct order because other vehicles of that type and era I've driven had the accelerator in the middle although they may have been of U.S./Canadian origin.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

eezy said:


> Always wanted to have a drive in a Matador but it never happened. Surprised the pedals are in the correct order because other vehicles of that type and era I've driven had the accelerator in the middle although they may have been of U.S./Canadian origin.


 Only thing I found required a bit of forethought that came with experience, was picking the correct gear, and staying in it when working in steep conditions. Quick changes were possible, but not always. I'd love to drive another that was properly set up/restored, but not for any long distance. There's someone local got a Militant that's looks all set up. I should go and have a look next time I see someone about.










A lot of them got cut and shortened, and an axle removed and made into forestry tractors.


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## Hotbulb (Jan 1, 2020)

Love the Matadors , Very nearly bought one of these at a auction many years ago … just couldn't face driving it 150 miles home at 30 something mph


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Hotbulb said:


> Love the Matadors , Very nearly bought one of these at a auction many years ago … just couldn't face driving it 150 miles home at 30 something mph


 a fellow dealer friend bought one of those (Explorer) with the Meadows petrol engine in it. 3mpg on a good day, 3gpm off road on a work day. :huh:

You could just about put your hand in the carburettor venturi.


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## Hotbulb (Jan 1, 2020)

WRENCH said:


> a fellow dealer friend bought one of those (Explorer) with the Meadows petrol engine in it. 3mpg on a good day, 3gpm off road on a work day. :huh:
> 
> You could just about put your hand in the carburettor venturi.


 Yes think they went into gallons per mile off road ,Built at a time when fuel wasn't an issue being was it for the MOD , That's why most have been converted to Gardiner diesels , seen a few LPG conversions as well , now off push came to shove this would be the outfit for me










Diamond T complete with Sherman tank with its original radial engine running on Avro fuel , fell in love with then again at a couple of recent military shows I've been to


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Hotbulb said:


> That's why most have been converted to Gardiner diesels ,


 Most had Gardiners. Heres some men in proper high trousers showing you how things are done properly.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Hotbulb said:


> Yes think they went into gallons per mile off road ,Built at a time when fuel wasn't an issue being was it for the MOD , That's why most have been converted to Gardiner diesels , seen a few LPG conversions as well , now off push came to shove this would be the outfit for me
> 
> 
> 
> Diamond T complete with Sherman tank with its original radial engine running on Avro fuel , fell in love with then again at a couple of recent military shows I've been to


 I'm assuming that's the same one there's quite a few clips on YouTube about ?

My good friend who sadly passed away recently had some interesting stuff including a 6 x 6 Mack M123 like this,










A Commer Q4 like this,










and by a stroke of luck I found this picture of the civilian version, the Commer Superpoise, which was apparently the oldest lorry still in commercial use in Scotland,










6 cylinder petrol, 6mpg, and it went like the wind. I've shifted it about and the cab is as wide inside as a small car. The owners dog would bite you every time you touched the gear shift. :laughing2dw:


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## johnbaz (Jan 30, 2005)

Here's a friend of mine (Big Col), He used to reduce these things in size with a hi lo Oxy/propane cutter, He told me that every so often there would be a 'BANG' when a dropped bullet that ended up in an out of the way place went off due to the heat from the cutter! :wacko:




























This 1939 Austin 3 tonne used to live around the corner from me, Not seen it in ages so I presume it's gone elsewhere now..




























John :thumbsup:


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Dear @johnbaz, fascinating posts by you and others on these amazing trucks. Looking at that picture of the rather nice Austin 1939 3 tonne, it reminds me that the parking situation round here rather precludes Kristina and myself from acquiring such a vehicle. We'll have to stick with our little Suzuki Splash, I'm afraid. :biggrin:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Mounted on the back of the tractor,










Was one of these,

An Igland double drum winch,










The two outer levers operate the winch drum brakes, and the two inner ones operate the winch clutches. The winch is driven by chain off the tractor power take off drive shaft.

Plenty of opportunities for losing fingers. :laughing2dw:

One of the winch ropes would have been fed over the home made "Silky" (crane) for lifting and towing big logs. It was really badly designed because it would lift the back wheels of the tractor off the ground. The axle on the crane should have been set further back.



















The cab on that tractor was the same as this,










One door on the left, no rear window, and an open floor. No heater either. I used to go up to where @mach 0.0013137 comes from in the winter with loads of fire wood through snow drifts, and it was freezing.


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

WRENCH said:


> One door on the left, no rear window, and an open floor. No heater either.


 Luxury my boy!

I remember, with the old man, sitting on the wheel guard (Fordson Power Major), no cab, pulling a trailer full of mangels & him leaning over the steering wheel to light his cigarette on the sparks from the exhaust.

:biggrin:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Karrusel said:


> Luxury my boy!
> 
> I remember, with the old man, sitting on the wheel guard (Fordson Power Major), no cab, pulling a trailer full of mangels & him leaning over the steering wheel to light his cigarette on the sparks from the exhaust.
> 
> :biggrin:


 Never have your thumbs on the inside of a Power Major steering wheel, if you want to keep them. I remember we used to knock them into neutral on steep downhills and shove your boot on the steering arm link where it came out of the steering box to act as a steering damper to keep the wheel steady. That old thing that I had, used to have a flame like a rocket coming out of the exhaust at night when it was working hard. If you couldn't light a fag off the exhaust, shorting the dipstick across the battery terminals until it glowed red hot did the same. :thumbsup:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Here's another couple of interesting work tools. Most folk will think of JCB Fastracs when you mention fast road tractors, but these two, primarily used for forestry applications date back to the 1930's.

The Latil, is probably the more versatile with its 4 wheel steering,










The Unipower was more common in the UK, and there are still some working.










The Unipower would manage 30+ mph on the road, and considering that the speed limit for heavy vehicles at the time was 30mph, they were way ahead of their time. The badge on the front grille would indicate a Perkins Diesel engine is fitted, probably a P6, 6 cylinder. Post WW2 models used Gardner Diesels.

Here's a short article about a working one.

https://www.farmcollector.com/tractors/unipower-forester-timber-tractor/


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

johnbaz said:


> The seat was like a tractor seat with no cushioning at all, Just pressed steel!


 Part of British industry standard, absolutely no thought of any comfort for those who operated stuff.

Imagine sitting on this all day.(pics from Pinterest)










and no, the padding isn't missing, that's it.

Apparently the cabs were removed from these Minneapolis Moline tractors because they weren't "manly".


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

I remember fixing one of these.

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/A1_I-lj4CVc?feature=oembed


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

WRENCH said:


> I remember fixing one of these.
> 
> https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/A1_I-lj4CVc?feature=oembed


 I used compressed air versions of this extensively in Africa, they are still used all over the world where mines use a tracked (rail) system of haulage


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JoT said:


> I used compressed air versions of this extensively in Africa, they are still used all over the world where mines use a tracked (rail) system of haulage


 Coincidentally, at this very moment I am sitting with my pal who is/was one of the Hydro "Tunnel Tigers" talking about these very machines, and how they would probably fail every part of current health and safety guidelines.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Here's a bit on one of the Hydro Tunnels close to me, and a bit about a watch.

https://www.sserenewables.com/news-and-views/2020/10/a-world-tunnelling-record-65-years-on/


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## eezy (Apr 13, 2018)

Had the dubious pleasure of driving this on a few occasions. Ex BMMO double decker, not enough power to pull your hat off. Once had to do a 140 mile round trip to tow a coach back, flat out at 35MPH. We used to get £1 danger money for going on the motorway to a breakdown.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

eezy said:


> Had the dubious pleasure of driving this on a few occasions. Ex BMMO double decker, not enough power to pull your hat off. Once had to do a 140 mile round trip to tow a coach back, flat out at 35MPH. We used to get £1 danger money for going on the motorway to a breakdown.


 My brother in law worked for the firm that operated these things,










They were built on a Commer bus chassis, and the noise they made was frightening. There was absolutely no comfort in the cab, and the drivers mate faced backwards. They were horrible things, and I can't imagine how bad it must have been to drive one to Coventry and back to North of Perth regularly. From memory you only required a second man if the trailer carried more than two cars, and only a Hillman Imp would fit along side the half cab. Rootes Group cars only.


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## Hotbulb (Jan 1, 2020)

WRENCH said:


> Part of British industry standard, absolutely no thought of any comfort for those who operated stuff.
> 
> Imagine sitting on this all day.(pics from Pinterest)
> 
> ...


 I'm a bit of a vintage tractor fan having grown up on a farm it was the first thing I drove on hay carting learning clutch control and not shooting my brother off the back of the trailer if I'd dropped the clutch a bit quick which was on a little grey Fergie , later on in life when the farm had gone I bought 5 vintage tractors including two Fergies , a couple of Fordsons and a Allis charmers , I used to go to a lot of steam type shows and go ploughing , many hours spent in a tin seat , back in late sixties my father used to strap me into the inside of the mud guard next to him when I was a toddler … again many hours spent on a tractor just me dad spending time together


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## Alpha550t (Mar 31, 2020)

Hotbulb said:


> I'm a bit of a vintage tractor fan having grown up on a farm it was the first thing I drove on hay carting learning clutch control and not shooting my brother off the back of the trailer if I'd dropped the clutch a bit quick which was on a little grey Fergie , later on in life when the farm had gone I bought 5 vintage tractors including two Fergies , a couple of Fordsons and a Allis charmers , I used to go to a lot of steam type shows and go ploughing , many hours spent in a tin seat , back in late sixties my father used to strap me into the inside of the mud guard next to him when I was a toddler … again many hours spent on a tractor just me dad spending time together


 I learnt to drive on a Fordson, a Super Major I think. About 12 at the time, happy days.


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## eezy (Apr 13, 2018)

WRENCH said:


> My brother in law worked for the firm that operated these things,
> 
> 
> 
> They were built on a Commer bus chassis, and the noise they made was frightening. There was absolutely no comfort in the cab, and the drivers mate faced backwards. They were horrible things, and I can't imagine how bad it must have been to drive one to Coventry and back to North of Perth regularly. From memory you only required a second man if the trailer carried more than two cars, and only a Hillman Imp would fit along side the half cab. Rootes Group cars only.


 I guess that would be a supercharged Boxer engine? They sure were noisy!


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

Hotbulb said:


> I'm a bit of a vintage tractor fan, many hours spent in a tin seat , back in late sixties my father used to strap me into the inside of the mud guard next to him when I was a toddler … again many hours spent on a tractor just me dad spending time together


 Me too!

Although at the time, my grandfather (still working) insisted on some additional comfort features…

Including an old seed potato sack stuffed with barley straw, placed on the saddle seat…luxury! :biggrin:

Halcyon days.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

eezy said:


> I guess that would be a supercharged Boxer engine? They sure were noisy!


 TS 3 I think.


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## eezy (Apr 13, 2018)

WRENCH said:


> TS 3 I think.


 That's the one. Always called a Boxer engine in my day but not strictly so. A supercharged, 2 stroke flat 3 cylinder engine but with 6 pistons (2 pistons per cylinder pushing against each other). Only 3.25L but equivalent in power to much bigger engines.

Whoever designed it must have been on something at the time....


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

eezy said:


> O
> 
> Whoever designed it must have been on something at the time....


 There was a haulage contractor down the road from me operated a fleet of these things. The ornaments in my house literary tattled when they passed in the early hours of the morning.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

I have my parents to thank for my "work ethic" but not in the way they intended. They wouldn't let me wear jeans, so I figured I'd have to buy my own, so at the age of nine or ten I went looking for a job, and got one delivering paraffin door to door out of a truck similar to this one,










It had a thing like a giant glass optic which measured out exactly one gallon, lever up to fill the optic, lever down to empty it into the can. I used to work weekends, and school holidays. The driver was really decent, and he would let me keep all the tips. We delivered paraffin along the Moray Firth area of Scotland where many houses still relied on paraffin heaters, lamps and ovens.


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## eezy (Apr 13, 2018)

WRENCH said:


> We delivered paraffin along the Moray Firth area of Scotland where many houses still relied on paraffin heaters, lamps and ovens.


 What would that be - about 2bob a gallon?


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

eezy said:


> What would that be - about 2bob a gallon?


 Something seems to remind me of an outcry because of a price increase from 2/- to 2s/3d.

See how many of the "junior" members figure out that one. :wheelchair:

:laughing2dw:


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## Alpha550t (Mar 31, 2020)

WRENCH said:


> Something seems to remind me of an outcry because of a price increase from 2/- to 2s/3d.
> 
> See how many of the "junior" members figure out that one. :wheelchair:
> 
> :laughing2dw:


 I'm sure I've got a few threepenny bits somewhere!


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Alpha550t said:


> I'm sure I've got a few threepenny bits somewhere!


 I've got some of the silver ones.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Nostalgia is a wonderful thing. It makes you forget about all the bad things, and only selectively remember working on machines on sunny days, and forget about getting your backside frozen off operating things with no cabs in the middle of winter with clothing that barely kept you warm and dry, and things that rattled and vibrated that bad, you still thought you were shaking when you went to bed. One thing that I genuinely remember with fondness was a Ford D Series truck, like this,










It would average around 18mpg, never gave any problems, and was pleasant to drive.


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## Hotbulb (Jan 1, 2020)

WRENCH said:


> TS 3 I think.


 They had a habit of self destructing , being a two stroke if the bores were a bit worn they would by pass the fuel system and scavenge oil from the sump and run away, with no way of shutting them down the operator just had to sit back and wait for it to go bang


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Hotbulb said:


> They had a habit of self destructing , being a two stroke if the bores were a bit worn they would by pass the fuel system and scavenge oil from the sump and run away, with no way of shutting them down the operator just had to sit back and wait for it to go bang


 Donkey jacket down the air intake worked as an impromptu chalwyn valve. :laughing2dw:

https://www.chalwyn.com/

I had one on that D Series truck, and others, otherwise you didn't get into petrochemical plants.

That Ford truck had a straight 6 diesel in it. Normally aspirated with a Sims pump,










The lever top right was the "strangler" (remember them?) and the button in the middle of the strangler clamp was the cold start/excess fuel button. To operate that you had to crawl in between the front wheel and cab drivers side and push it in. Happy days.


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## eezy (Apr 13, 2018)

WRENCH said:


> The lever top right was the "strangler" (remember them?) and the button in the middle of the strangler clamp was the cold start/excess fuel button.


 Remember the cold start button. Think you had to open the throttle first to engage it or is my memory playing tricks again....


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

eezy said:


> Remember the cold start button. Think you had to open the throttle first to engage it or is my memory playing tricks again....


 Some did. Not on the one above. Some David Brown diesels had a T bar screw for the cold start that didn't re-set, and they also had a "strangler" that worked opposite from everything else, i.e. in for off.


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## johnbaz (Jan 30, 2005)

Was travelling home through Nottingham when I heard the unmistakeable drone of multiple Merlin engines!

Unfortunately I didn't have a camera with me that zoomed very much :sadwalk:










My brother took a few pics af ships when he was travelling to Lerwick to do some demolition/reduction of old rig parts.



















The old Loco's that were scrapped in the 80's! My cousin mick was on the footplate of the Sentinel in the second pic, They were Rolls Royce powered :thumbsup: 
A rail crane is following the loco in the first pics.



















This is a Kamag that replaced the railroads, They're still in use today but are similar to Triggers brush that he had for all the years!, these have had numerous overhauls/New engines and hydraulics etc, I recall one day when a 90 tonne ladle was being brought over and something went bang!!, Couldn't see the Kamag for thick black smoke!, They somehow got it in to the foundry though and we made the live steel safe!!










Two cats pushing the heat treatment bogey in with a casting oaround 300t hundred tonnes on it, The axles were designed for a fair bit less and many bearings shattered under the weight!, It sounded 'orrible but they went in! :yes:










A Cat dumptruck that used to take the scrap from the foundry over to the melting shop, The SWL was 25tonnes, It looked like it would carry loads more (And often did!).. That's John the driver, A lovely fella that unfortunately passed away from Lung Cancer 










Another dumptruck, Can't remember what make though!










Wouldn't wanna pump all those tyres up with a footpump!!









They sometimes need a push as well as a pull!










The bigger loads were escorted by the police and always aimed to set off around midnight as there was less traffic to hold up then!


















They sometimes struggle to get in to the foundry as they're massively long!!










I think this was Geoff Capes Discus being delivered, It's all stainless steel..










An old EV being scrapped, It's a stand on bogey with levers for steering and throttle and a dead mans pedal!, It's many many years old and had a half ton of lead acid batteries onder the platform!, It was like a racing car when the batteries were replaced! :biggrin:










John..


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

johnbaz said:


> Another dumptruck, Can't remember what make though!


 @johnbaz Looks like a Volvo A25C

Good machines, I have driven the slightly bigger A30C it could get through just about anything


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

I used to buy, sell and hire these things.

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/7ZtDZGiIpG0?feature=oembed

Once the engine is running that blade turns, and it's fearsome. I used to go out and operate them on some hires, because an inexperienced operator could wreck a blade in minutes. Each tip is bonded industrial diamond, and the supplier I used would give a bond to suit the job. The drive is controlled by an infinitely adjustable hydraulic variator, and if you notice when the guy has stopped cutting, he backs the machine slowly when lifting the blade out of the cut. This is done as a safety precaution as if the blade is lifted going forward, it has been known to "bite" and propel the whole thing at frightening speed using the blade as the drive.

It was filthy work. Some contractors used saws with American made V4 side valve petrol Wisconsin engines. I always opted for Hatz, or Deutz diesels, as they used around 25% of the fuel.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

WRENCH said:


> I used to buy, sell and hire these things.
> 
> https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/7ZtDZGiIpG0?feature=oembed
> 
> ...


 That's got to be a tool :laughing2dw: :naughty:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

At one place I worked we had one of these old sideload forklift. A right clapped out old knacker, no glass in the windows and no heater. I pitied the the lad who had to spend a full shift out in the yard in winter.


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## eezy (Apr 13, 2018)

BondandBigM said:


> At one place I worked we had one of these old sideload forklift. A right clapped out old knacker, no glass in the windows and no heater. I pitied the the lad who had to spend a full shift out in the yard in winter.


 We had one with fork extensions. Used it for lifting tipper bodies on and off.


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## Hotbulb (Jan 1, 2020)

WRENCH said:


> Donkey jacket down the air intake worked as an impromptu chalwyn valve. :laughing2dw:
> 
> https://www.chalwyn.com/
> 
> ...


 Always brings me back to my childhood when I hear the driveshaft clatter from a Simms pump when my dad used to take me out in the fields On a Fordson Major


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

Hotbulb said:


> Always brings me back to my childhood when I hear the driveshaft clatter from a Simms pump when my dad used to take me out in the fields On a Fordson Major


 That takes me back, grandfather/father always made sure there was a spare fibre pump coupling disc in the tool box.

On a couple of occasions they failed when I was in control. 

Happy days!


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Majors were straightforward to look after, and maintain. The backend/transmission was hugely over engineered, simple and strong.


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## Roxyben (May 19, 2020)

johnbaz said:


> Was travelling home through Nottingham when I heard the unmistakeable drone of multiple Merlin engines!
> 
> Unfortunately I didn't have a camera with me that zoomed very much :sadwalk:
> 
> ...


 Awesome post @johnbaz


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

This is the first Volvo F86 sold in the UK,



















Sold by Ailsa Trucks, Scotland, in 1967.

https://www.globalcoldchainnews.com/volvo-celebrates-fifty-years-in-the-uk/

It was a massive change in the transport industry. My old neighbour jacked his job driving a Foden, to drive one for less money, because the Volvo was so much better. The "iconic" F88 came after,










Some of my pals had these and used them on the Middle East runs, UK to Saudi Arabia and UK to Tehran. These trucks were so much better than anything made in the UK it's no wonder our home industry disappeared.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Here's some nice old British pickup trucks.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Spotted this one on eBay. £42.500.00










https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154185324520


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## johnbaz (Jan 30, 2005)

'Rubber Duck- Lo0oks like we got us a convoy'!!










The 300t crane travelling with a black casting pulled freshly from the pit and ready for cleaning off with the pecker!, This crane replaced our old 150t crane as it wasn't up to the task as the castings became bigger and heavier!, This crane was in a field in Germany when our maintenance gaffers went to view it, The anchor is huge, The crane is 500t rated but out tracks and stancheons were rated at less than that!, They had to be reinforced before the crane could be commissioned!

For loads bigger there's a beam that was custom made to join this crane and the 200t crane together, This was deemed ok as it spread the load on the track/stancheons more..










This machine has saved vibration whitefinger for many people not having to spend endless hours on the wind hammers!, I have carpol tunnel syndrome in both hands from using a large CP for endless hours but luckily no Whitefinger!










I feel pretty certain that the hydraulic ram on this was customised to go round corners!  :teethsmile:










Another tight fit!









Some Scaled down steam models, I presume they were based upon actual full sized transports..




























John :thumbsup:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

@johnbaz

Out of curiosity was River Don Castings part of Sheffield Forgemasters. I remember back in the day we were doing a lot of work for RDC at the same time as well as work for Forgemasters.


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## johnbaz (Jan 30, 2005)

BondandBigM said:


> @johnbaz
> 
> Out of curiosity was River Don Castings part of Sheffield Forgemasters. I remember back in the day we were doing a lot of work for RDC at the same time as well as work for Forgemasters.


 At one time the company was split in to seven separarate co's, I think it was to weaken the union/Workforce but they eventually put it back to one company, RDC is part of Forgemasters, The drop forge across the River Don was sold off many years ago so that is nothing to do with S.F. now.

John


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Speaking of Sheffield, in the days when I went around there I used to see these things way past their sell by date.










Apparently the last one was still on the go in the early 2000's. I certainly remember them in the late 1990's, after being held up by one broken down at roadworks.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Eating hot food when working in remote locations was a breeze. My work truck was always equipped with a generator, and 110v power inverter. So a welding rod quiver (heater) was an excellent slow heater for pies and sausage rolls. :laughing2dw:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

I found this the other night. In the early.1960's me and my pal used to go away with his dad in one of these delivering sand and gravel. The noise was deafening, no padding or insulation whatsoever inside the cab, and around 45mph, which was fine for the conditions of the time.

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/lAndT9faPxA?feature=oembed

but pretty horrible, and a pig to get in and out of if you were small. That ring around the front wheel nuts acted as a step to use for getting in and out.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

In the hot summer of 1976 I was shifting side booms like this,

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/eyRCIh_GKt0?feature=oembed

Sideways on, engine running, jib down so it wouldn't catch on railway bridges on the way to the next part of the spread. All this stuff came from the states along with the trucks to move them.

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/43te0JXoKpg?feature=oembed

Some with 24 speed 2 lever gear shifts that were horrible. Every country and western fan for miles around wanted their picture taken next to the trucks. They were horrible things to drive, with the turning circle of an oil tanker, air starter, and 12 volt electrics, when all British/European trucks were 24 volt, so if you were doing a trailer swap with a British/Euro truck and vice versa, it meant you had to change all the bulbs on the trailer. That hands through the steering wheel is showing off, you could get it done with one hand once you got the measure of them. Notice that the guy in the clip doesn't use the clutch pedal after the initial take off. This was standard practice for a smooth shift once you knew what you were doing.

One thing that is a bit sad is that pre mobile phone days, no one bothered about taking pictures, so very few exist, even throughout the web. My brother in law reckons he has a biscuit tin full of old photos from the time in his loft, so fingers crossed. I worked out of an old railway yard that had originally been a coal depot for steam trains, and in that summer of 1976, the dust was horrendous. First thing we used to do in the morning was to use insulating tape around the bottom of the boiler suit legs to stop the coal dust finding it way upwards into your "vital organs" and crevices, and I never remember any kind of toilet facilities, and health and safety hadn't been invented. Although I do remember being told to get a hard hat on when we were loading 40ft lengths of 36 inch steel pipes. What good a plastic hat would have done if that fell on you I have yet to experience.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

AEC Mercury Merryweather Pump Ladder; 1000 gallons per minute main pump, classified as a pump ladder because it only carried 200 gallons of water (and not 400 gallons typical of a water tender ladder), the reason being some tank space was taken up by an integrated 300lb dry powder unit, the ladder classification indicates it carries a 45 foot ladder. I rode to my first ever fire on this machine when I was a wholetime fireman in Grangetown 45 or so years ago.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Speaking of fire pumps, I always bought these when they came up at auctions etc.










Coventry Climax fire pumps. I quite often got them for repair, usually because farmers bought them to use for purposes they weren't really suitable for, and they were awkward to start if not maintained properly as they were mostly hand start, recoil or hand crank; but there was another market for them which remains today, and the power units are more sought after than ever.

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/a-contemporary-take-on-a-classic-the-sohc-coventry-climax-engine/

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/YI8G0a2eWKo?feature=oembed


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

@WRENCH we used to carry a portable pump on every pumping appliance (pumps and water tenders) mostly Coventry Climax / Godiva usually described as "light portable pump" - they may have been portable but they weren't light! Some urban and smaller appliances carried a Hathaway light pump which could easily be managed by two men.

The Coventry Climax pumps were reliable enough, we had some diesel versions as well as many chemical works on Teesside didn't allow petrol engines. The diesel versions were heavier and a nightmare to start in cold weather!

This picture I took from 1979 shows a petrol version in its stowed position, they were on a sliding frame so weren't too difficult to remove


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## eezy (Apr 13, 2018)

WRENCH said:


> Coventry Climax fire pumps


 Not exactly a cornerstone of reliability, especially as the power plant of the Hillman Imp.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JoT said:


> The diesel versions were heavier and a nightmare to start in cold weather!


 A lot of the problems relating to that was that for winter running they required thinner oil viscosity, something that was almost always forgotten about/overlooked.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

The second Grangetown fire appliance I rode on 45 years ago was this Dennis F108 1000 gpm Water Tender, it was a diesel version with (I think) a 8.4l Perkins V8 engine. It carried 400 gallons of water, 35ft ladder and also had high pressure hose reels which could knock down most fires. Note the white front and Francis rolling siren, both were characteristic of Cleveland Fire Brigade, the white front to make the appliance more visible at night in smoggy conditions and the rolling siren because the Chief at the time believed it was distinctive and people would know the brigade was on its way. Cleveland still has the white fronts even though Teesside is no longer smoggy, the sirens were phased out in the early 80's for two-tone horns which give road users a better sense where the noise was coming from.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

The third machine we had a Grangetown 45 years ago was an AEC Mercury HCB-Angus Foam Tender which carried 1000 gallons of foam concentrate and foam making equipment. I was riding the tender when it was called out to an oil storage tank fire at British Steel Redcar where is was used in anger. At this time it hadn't yet acquired the white front but would soon do so, note the rolling siren.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

In the 1960's there was always a school trip to the King Street fire station in Aberdeen.










The building is now student flats.

These two which have been restored were there along with an older Denis.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-45892518.amp


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JoT said:


> @WRENCH there is some great work done by preservationists, really is a labour of love


 I had one of these for a brief period, minus the trailed pump. I thought about using it as a camper, but slow speed, dreadful fuel economy, and not the nicest thing to drive changed my mind. I sold it to a film prop company. The rear "door" was a bit of heavy tarpaulin curtain.

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/8sQxsLOiMCA?feature=oembed


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

Served my apprenticeship on these:

 

Worked on everything else from trucks, buses, motorcycles. These days I overhaul driveline units - engines, transmissions and axles from stuff like this:


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

@Tinkicker replacing some of the pins on the crane would be interesting!


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

Just drawing the steering pins out of the axles is "interesting". 20mm diameter, high tensile drawing bolts snap like carrots and hit the roof 20ft above with a bang. The 30kg in weight hydraulic drawing ram flies about 4ft in the air.

Meanwhile you are brandishing the gas axe at full arms stretch to warm up the pin yokes, while getting ready to run away.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Here's another treat from the past, the 4 in line low loader.










In order to load anything that couldn't be side loaded the rear axles had to be removed. Most of these things ended up being "farmers specials", meaning they got zero maintenance and nothing worked the way it should. There is no suspension on the rear either. I remember seeing the results of one being towed by a tractor with the trailer brakes having been long inoperative. On a downhill with probably around 15 tones + on the trailer, the tractor couldn't hold it back, and it ran away untill the engine literally exploded by over revving. What is amusing is that the tractor was only a few months old, and the owner claimed warranty, not mentioning the cause, and got repaired.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

JoT said:


> @Tinkicker replacing some of the pins on the crane would be interesting!


 Plant fitters....bigger hammer......hit it harder










As a proper engineer I prefer the more subtle touch

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Tinkicker said:


> Served my apprenticeship on these:


 Both ERF and Foden had brand loyalty around me. It's a shame they've gone.


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

This pic was taken of me last year. It was to go into an apprentices college portfolio. He had to take another... :biggrin:

Unfortunately a complete "herbert" of a manager hove into view just as the shutter clicked. Pic ruined. The look on my face says "if you come over here spouting more of your idiotic BS, I'm in the mood to tear you a new one". Manager usually sees the face, turns 180 degrees and scoots.

As for the face, normally a bit less severe, but still with a lived in look. Bit like Bagpuss. It's a face that makes me think "what the hell happened to you" every morning as it stares back at me during my morning shave. Overall shape now looks like I took it off and carelessly put it back on upside down. Then again I think my body is upside down too compared to 30 years ago.

Getting old is not for sissies. 

Anyways, I digress.. CAT C18 out of a Heathrow Jumbo Jet tug.


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## BobJ (Jul 2, 2017)

BondandBigM said:


> Plant fitters....bigger hammer......hit it harder
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

Has to be said. But of a difference between the gear wheels and pinions encountered during my day job and those of my hobby...


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## Roxyben (May 19, 2020)

WRENCH said:


> Both ERF and Foden had brand loyalty around me. It's a shame they've gone.


 When I first started driving I got taught how to rope and sheet a trailer. Always appreciate a well sheeted trailer although its something you don't see that much of nowadays. The guy who showed me though was not far off retirement and it was like he was showing me some lost art! He took enormous pride in doing a really great job of it and making sure that his skillset was passed down to me. No fun sheeting a full trailer in the rain though!


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

The bits in the previous pic I posted was from one of these under bridge wagons.










You wouldn't get me on one if you paid me especially after I fixed it.

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

BondandBigM said:


> The bits in the previous pic I posted was from one of these under bridge wagons.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I used something similar to dangle a survey team over a disused shaft, they weren't impressed


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

For all you fans of The Dandy and the Beano,

This is what hauled D.C. Thomson's stuff around.










Always ERF, and always in that drab grey, and never sign written. Powered by a Gardiner 120, these ponderous things trudged their way the length of the country. Meticulously maintained, never a with permanent allocated driver, and void of any form of in cab entertainment.


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

The venerable Gardner. Hugely high quality long strokes that would run forever. Until the emissions regs killed it off and the company had no resources to develop another engine design from scratch, nor we're they able to enter into a partnership with another manufacturer.

The world moved on and Gardner didn't. Still no finer engine for bus duty cycles though. Modern engines don't survive long in bus use. Over complex and too high power density. It is ridiculous. Some buses I worked on had you dropping the engine out to set the valve clearances. No room to get the valve cover off.

Gardner still survives as a parts supplier for all makes. Gardner Parts they call themselves.

As an apprentice, the figure usually had the "organ pipe" Gardner 6LXB and the bigger stuff had the 8LXCT.

6am on a frosty Monday morning and it was the apprentice TKs job to go round the yard with the battery trolley, getting the old dears running so they had a bit of heat in them before the drivers turned up.

Two things spring to mind still from over 40 years ago.

1. Sat in the cab with heart in mouth waiting for the oil pressure gauge to move. It could take a minute or more. A few times it waited till I was about to pull the stop.

2. Thirty odd cold soaked Gardner's idling away in a yard on a cold Monday morning. The smoke was so thick you could just about cut a chunk out of it with a knife.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Tinkicker said:


> Thirty odd cold soaked Gardner's idling away in a yard on a cold Monday morning. The smoke was so thick you could just about cut a chunk out of it with a knife.


 One was enough. I remember working out of a raised portacabin which had an old ERF/Gardener parked tight alongside. The driver would start it and leave it to warm up in the winter with the front offside exhaust blowing everything under the cabin floor which which filtered up and choked every one with the blue reek.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Another of my fire engines

When I left Grangetown as a wholetime fireman and transferred to Guisborough as a retained fireman the appliance they had at the time was an old HCB bodied Bedford (possibly a D4 chassis) water tender. It was ex-North Riding of Yorkshire Fire Brigade appliance which was transferred in 1974, along with Guisborough fire station, to the newly formed Cleveland County F.B. The machine dates from the late 1950's, possibly 1957 and was on the run until 1979. After a few years as a reserve appliance it is pictured here awaiting disposal.

It used to cough and splutter for the first few miles until it got warmed up and then amble along at a steady 40 to 45 miles an hour, it always got us there mind you!


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## eezy (Apr 13, 2018)

JoT said:


> Another of my fire engines
> 
> When I left Grangetown as a wholetime fireman and transferred to Guisborough as a retained fireman the appliance they had at the time was an old HCB bodied Bedford (possibly a D4 chassis) water tender. It was ex-North Riding of Yorkshire Fire Brigade appliance which was transferred in 1974, along with Guisborough fire station, to the newly formed Cleveland County F.B. The machine dates from the late 1950's, possibly 1957 and was on the run until 1979. After a few years as a reserve appliance it is pictured here awaiting disposal.
> 
> ...


 Some of those later - mid 60's - HCB Angus' were powered by the Jaguar XK engine.


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## johnbaz (Jan 30, 2005)

Here's a few that a friend sent me through email, He's not with us any more unfortunately (Rip Don)..

Queenie doing her bit!










The rest are American I think!





































John :thumbsup:


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Another fire engine - When I was a wholetime fireman and being the sprog I was often sent to other stations if they were short crewed. I had several shifts at the marine station at the foot of the Transporter Bridge "over the border" in Middlesbrough, the fireboat was docked here but they also had an old HCB bodied Bedford (probably on a J series chassis) Pump Escape which had been converted to a Pump carrying a 35 foot ladder rather than a 60 foot wheeled escape. The Marine station was closed down a number of years ago.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Some more fire engine stuff,

http://totnesfirestation.weebly.com/totnes-appliances---yesterday.html

This one,










Is apparently built on a Bedford J5 chassis.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

@WRENCH what's interesting about the late 50's to early 70's is that appliances were all coach built often to a brigades preference so there are lots of variations, more interesting than today with Scania dominating


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JoT said:


> @WRENCH what's interesting about the late 50's to early 70's is that appliances were all coach built often to a brigades preference so there are lots of variations, more interesting than today with Scania dominating


 There was a local coach builder still building appliances well into the 1980's for specialist work. They used to build truck bodies for me at the time. They also built huge showman's trailers as well.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Here's Steph driving a Green Goddess.

I've driven one, and it wasn't very nice.

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/LsnorOw9aT8?feature=oembed


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

WRENCH said:


> Here's Steph driving a Green Goddess.
> 
> I've driven one, and it wasn't very nice.


 They were not designed for rapid intervention but for slow moving convoys as practiced by the Auxillary Fire Service which was a central government funded volunteer civil defence organisation. The convoys would consist of Green Goddess pumps, hose carriers, pipe carriers, portable dam carriers, recovery truck, their job was primarily to pump large volumes of water. The were disbanded by Harold Wilson in 1968 at the same time as the Civil Defence Corps, I have always felt that disbanding the AFS and CDC was a mistake and we should have kept some volunteer capability as back-up.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

A lot of the decommissioned Bedford RL's, which the Green Goddess was based on, were turned into timber tractors, recovery trucks and lime spreaders.










I drove two home from auctions for fellow dealers, one was broken up for spares, and the other was made into a commercial fencing contractors truck for off road work. The first thing that was done on these conversions was to get the petrol power unit, replaced with a diesel. In reality, off road, the fuel consumption was less than half the 6mpg they did on the road, and as I found out to my cost, 6 was over optimistic if you had the thing flat out. Also, with the then current regulations, they could be run under the same taxation class as a farm tractor, and on Gas Oil (red diesel).

Of course, these vehicles are now collectable, even the non original modified ones.










(Picture from mount liming)


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Another fire engine I had some limited experience of was this turntable ladder which was based at Redcar (after previously being based at Middlesbrough), it is an AEC Merryweather 100ft ladder. In 1980 the ladders were taken off the AEC and fitted to a Dennis Delta. Both machines were superb examples of their type. My experience of them is limited to a training sessions and one night shift at Redcar on the AEC, I also saw the Dennis used on an oil tank fire at Redcar steelworks and on a refinery fire at Seal Sands

AEC Merryweather










Dennis Delta


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## chas g (Nov 20, 2016)

A 100ft up on turn table ladder doesn't bare thinking about. I went up to the top of an atrium on a spider lift platform omce and how you are supposed to be able to work at that height on something that's swaying about when you can't let go of the hand rail is beyond me. Brave indeed :thumbsup:


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## eezy (Apr 13, 2018)

chas g said:


> A 100ft up on turn table ladder doesn't bare thinking about. I went up to the top of an atrium on a spider lift platform omce and how you are supposed to be able to work at that height on something that's swaying about when you can't let go of the hand rail is beyond me. Brave indeed :thumbsup:


 I was called out to repair an engine powered welder. Got to the site, it was a shopping mall with just the skeleton steel work up. I asked the foreman where the welder was and he pointed up - ''5th floor''. I said it can stay there as well! They craned it down for me.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

eezy said:


> I was called out to repair an engine powered welder. Got to the site, it was a shopping mall with just the skeleton steel work up. I asked the foreman where the welder was and he pointed up - ''5th floor''. I said it can stay there as well! They craned it down for me.


 I used to service hired welding gear on the Forth Railway Bridge. The health and safety aspect was understandably extreme. I once went out to look at one that was "down on output" to find the supposedly experienced welder was using the thing with a huge cable length coiled tightly. Straightened them out, and everything was fine. 10 minutes to fix, around 2 hours of holdups for H & S.

Another one was replacing a micro switch on a scissors lift.










Normally a half hour job, only this one was working in factory stripping blue asbestos, so after the induction course, trying to do the job in a suit like those worn on a space mission, and the decontamination after getting the job done, it took a normal days work.


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## johnbaz (Jan 30, 2005)

A couple more heavy luggers!!



















Poor old bucket truck died and needed taking to the garage so it was lifted on to a skip lorry!!










This pic was found onm the interweb, I didn't take it!, It's a large roll housing coming back from the machine shop..









Another one!










And what it takes to make them, Six ladles of either 90 or 100 tonnes go in to each casting, Over half will be removed as scrap, If there wasn't a reserve of molten steel feeding in the casting would be hollw like a shell! There's three standing ladles, Two more hanging from the cranes and a top up that goes in straight after..










Another pic from the WWW










A repro of the Titanic anchor that was made at my works, I never saw it though as I was having a new knee fitted at the time! :blush:










John :thumbsup:


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

chas g said:


> A 100ft up on turn table ladder doesn't bare thinking about. I went up to the top of an atrium on a spider lift platform omce and how you are supposed to be able to work at that height on something that's swaying about when you can't let go of the hand rail is beyond me. Brave indeed :thumbsup:


 The operator would elevate the ladder but not extend it, then a fireman would climb up to the head where there is a small folding platform, he would stand on that and lean with his chest on a curved plate, then hook himself on to an eye on the ladder with a special belt, give the signal and the ladder was then extended. There was an intercom so the guy at the top was in contact with the operator. The ladder could be used as a water tower (most common), for rescues at height (either down the ladder or on a stretcher slung under the ladder), as a crane (nothing heavy though) or as a bridge.


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## chas g (Nov 20, 2016)

JoT said:


> The operator would elevate the ladder but not extend it, then a fireman would like up to the head where there is a small folding platform, he would stand on that and lean with his chest on a curved plate, then hook himself on to an eye on the ladder with a special belt, give the signal and the ladder was then extended. There was an intercom so the guy at the top was in contact with the operator. The ladder could be used as a water tower (most common), for rescues at height (either down the ladder or on a stretcher slung under the ladder), as a crane (nothing heavy though) or as a bridge.


 Nothing would get me up a ladder that high. Good job we have people like you that can do it.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

chas g said:


> Nothing would get me up a ladder that high. Good job we have people like you that can do it.


 So you don't fancy London's new 64 metre ladder then? :laugh:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

This was parked up along the road the other weekend. The box on the roof looked like some sort of pop up tent affair and surprisingly even though it was on German plates it was right hand drive. Looked like a pretty good get of the beaten track thing. I'm not sure exactly what it was. Obviously ex military ??


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> This was parked up along the road the other weekend. The box on the roof looked like some sort of pop up tent affair and surprisingly even though it was on German plates it was right hand drive. Looked like a pretty good get of the beaten track thing. I'm not sure exactly what it was. Obviously ex military ??


 Pinzgauer

Some of the local estates have them, 6x6 also available.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr-Puch_Pinzgauer


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

@BondandBigM

This evening pre teatime amble.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Tinkicker said:


> Worked on everything else from trucks, buses, motorcycles. These days I overhaul driveline units - engines, transmissions and axles from stuff like this:


 I was looking for something yesterday and stumbled on this,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-nottinghamshire-39152820

I worked for them until 1991, they were good to me, and I left because I got a good promotion, but it meant relocation to somewhere I wasn't prepared to live, so I started my own thing. I wasn't involved in the crane division, but it was a sad ending.


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## Tinkicker (6 mo ago)

Wow. Hewden Stuart gone.... Thankfully I don't do stuff for them. My stuff as often as not goes to Baldwin's or a potash mine North of Scarborough.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

This used to belong to an old neighbour. My pal sent me these pictures of its restoration.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Stan said:


> If I'm not mistaken, that is a Scammell? Mot sure what model though. My late father loved Scammell's.


 It's a 1967 Scammell Highwayman. A lot of these were converted to ballast tractors from tractor units which was/is a shame.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Another fire engine from the 1970's and early 80's, Dennis F123 Delta with a Simon Snorkel hydraulic platform. This one was based at Middlesbrough under the call-sign "Sierra 16" I had some training on this and went to several fires where it was used in anger. Maximum reach was 85 feet which was 15ft less than the turntable ladder but it did have the advantage of better maneuverability of the platform. It was the forerunner to modern aerial ladder platforms.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> Probably worth it just for the running gear alone.
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195265360861


 Amazing what pops up in the links below.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115503627485

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/TgpccDG87SY?feature=oembed

The UK importer (Alex Mclarty) was in Crieff and I well remember a fencing contractor using one when they were doing the reinstatement work around Dalwhinnie when the new section of the A9 was being completed in the 1970's.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I was driven around in one of these in northern BC a number of years ago, quite impressive how it coped plus ability to carry loads

Alltrack AT-30HD with hiab


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Another Fire truck.










1968 Crown Firecoach, which was a gift to the town of Blairgowrie in Perthshire after a twinning ceremony with the town of Pleasanton California.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

@WRENCH I do like the old American fire trucks although they regularly lost firemen en route !


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

JoT said:


> @WRENCH I do like the old American fire trucks although they regularly lost firemen en route !


 Just out of interest, I've often wondered if the back end of those American articulated fire trucks is seperately steerable as you often see a guy sat at the back hanging onto a massive steering wheel. I suppose it would help to get round tight corners.


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## animalone (Apr 11, 2017)

Roger the Dodger said:


> Just out of interest, I've often wondered if the back end of those American articulated fire trucks is seperately steerable as you often see a guy sat at the back hanging onto a massive steering wheel. I suppose it would help to get round tight corners.


 I believe they are, I've certainly watched more than one move where they show that (I'll try to find a clip on youtube)

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/9uhWDwEVGEA?feature=oembed


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Here's another good idea, if not a costly one.

Multidrive articulated tipper.










You can see the propshaft running from the tractor unit to the rear axle/bogie, which gave 6 wheel drive. I remember seeing one of these being used as a demonstration vehicle for landfill operations, in the early 1990's also with a horizontal ejection system.

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/BZTdO0xHvqU?feature=oembed

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/n-f6ZTaztXw?feature=oembed

Modern Chinese equivalent.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Seen today a 1993 pre-facelift ex Surrey Dennis Rapier (now in a private collection) the best machine Dennis made IMO. Never sold that well as it was quite expensive nevertheless was produced from 1991 to about 2001. Powered by a 6 cylinder Cummins C260-21 turbocharged diesel and an Allison MCDR five-speed automatic box. Suspension was superb as Dennis utilised double-wishbone and coil springs with telescopic dampers and it had a governed top speed of 75 mph.


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## Q.Lotte (Feb 10, 2014)

JoT said:


> Seen today a 1993 pre-facelift ex Surrey Dennis Rapier (now in a private collection) the best machine Dennis made IMO. Never sold that well as it was quite expensive nevertheless was produced from 1991 to about 2001. Powered by a 6 cylinder Cummins C260-21 turbocharged diesel and an Allison MCDR five-speed automatic box. Suspension was superb as Dennis utilised double-wishbone and coil springs with telescopic dampers and it had a governed top speed of 75 mph.
> 
> View attachment 52727


 The father of a friend of mine based in Melbourne has a large farm/ranch in Victoria, Australia. Several years ago he bought a decommissioned Australian fire engine for the ranch, both for transporting water around the property and putting out the occasional fire. He dearly wanted to re-instate the bell/siren to play at being a fireman on his own land but the authorities wouldn't let him - he thought they imagined that he would be using it to clear traffic on the highway. One summer there were a lot of bush fires and the authorities were calling up all the people they knew who had access to fire-fighting equipment to ask if they would volunteer their vehicles/services. My friend's dad apologised profusely, explaining that his vehicle was no longer a proper fire engine without its siren. He soon got his siren*.

 *I would have liked to add that he was never late for dinner again but I am unable to verify this statement.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

A 1965 BSA B40WD ex-AFS (Auxillary Fire Service) messenger motorbike. This one was stolen recently in Suffolk, so if anybody has seen it ... !


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JoT said:


> A 1965 BSA B40WD ex-AFS (Auxillary Fire Service) messenger motorbike. This one was stolen recently in Suffolk, so if anybody has seen it ... !


 I had one, and also a WD (army) B40,










The Civil Defense B40 and the AFS differed from the Army B40. The army bike used a frame similar to the BSA Victor, you can see the difference in the frame loops behind the engine, it had different wheels/brake drums, and a fully enclosed rear drive chain. The headlamp/brackets, mudguards, tank were also different.

The AFS/Civil Defense bikes had more in common with the civilian bikes.










with extra green paint.

They were good bikes if treated respectfully. The AFS one I had sold for good money, and the army one went the way of many, broken up for the frame to be used in twin shock Motocross racing.


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## eezy (Apr 13, 2018)

JoT said:


> In this country you can own a fire engine and if you keep it maintained as a working fire engine it is MoT and tax exempt. Some brigades don't like privately owned engines driving around with their livery and insist on some identifying signage to show that it is not owned by them or for livery to be covered up while on the road, some brigades don't seem to mind (or can't be bothered) and in many instances privately owned appliances have names of defunct brigades. As for the blue lights preserved fire appliances are, by law, not to have them fitted if they are travelling on a public road, although technically illegal a common sense approach is usually applied by the police if the lights are covered (in 2008 an attempt to get the law changed to "common sense" was not successful) likewise with siren use. However I have seen may instances of preserved appliances travelling on public roads with the blue lights uncovered. There are some preservationists who register their vehicles as emergency vehicles and strip off the former livery effectively becoming a private fire brigade and combine preservation with providing fire cover at events, film sets, small airfields etc.
> 
> Interesting what you said about calling up people, in the recent drought related fires there were private fire engine owners who offered the services of their machines to the local authority brigades and some were used as water carriers ferrying water to rural fires.


 I don't know how true it is but I was once told that privately owned fire engines could be requisitioned into service should the need arise.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

It was the local vintage vehicle show today, which I didn't attend because I would have spent money on something stupid. I wasn't quick enough with my camera, but one of each of these passed by.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Here's another one from the past.

Cuthbertson Land Rover.










https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/Y4HtbKiqQes?feature=oembed

Mainly used on wealthy estates in the Scottish Highlands.

There's usually one on display at Lix Toll on the A85 near Killin.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

eezy said:


> I don't know how true it is but I was once told that privately owned fire engines could be requisitioned into service should the need arise.


 There are quite a number of private fire brigades who offer fire services at events, small airfields, film shoots, events etc and industrial brigades who look after high risk installations, there is also the Defence Fire & Rescue Service. Under the Fire and Rescue Services Act a local fire authority can enter into arrangements with "a person who employs fire-fighters" i.e. a private service "for securing the provision by that person of assistance for the purpose of the discharge by the authority of a function conferred on it under section 7, 8 or 9". Sections 7, 8 and 9 are firefighting, road traffic accidents and emergencies respectively.

Some examples of private brigades are DDA Fire Ltd, Warrior Fire & Rescue Service, 1st Defense Fire & Rescue Service, Cini Fire Tech, Event Fire & Rescue Service, Falck Fire Services Ltd and many more. It is these companies who often provide basic fire cover when the local authority brigades go on strike!


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Ex Roneo Vickers 1951 Reliant fire engine.


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## chas g (Nov 20, 2016)

WRENCH said:


> Ex Roneo Vickers 1951 Reliant fire engine.


 We should still have some of those. It made me smile the moment I saw it


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

WRENCH said:


> There's usually one on display at Lix Toll on the A85 near Killin.


 Not anymore.

https://www.landrovermonthly.co.uk/articles/classics/land-rover-forest-rover/

I found this, so it's in Brazil now. I was in one of the mentioned Forest Rovers years ago, and it was like being in a 1950's site dumper with a cab.


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## Hotbulb (Jan 1, 2020)

WRENCH said:


> It was the local vintage vehicle show today, which I didn't attend because I would have spent money on something stupid. I wasn't quick enough with my camera, but one of each of these passed by.
> 
> 
> 
> we had a Austin Gypsy on our farm back in the seventies , great old thing but not many survived as they suffered a lot more with rust as apposed to a landie with its Ali body panels


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## Hotbulb (Jan 1, 2020)

My old series 3 stage 1 V8 , it was ex southern water board and had a hard top originally so i bought another series 3 ex military for £125 just to get the tilt and sticks , from memory it was plated to 7025 kgs gross weight and needed a class 7 mot , I sold it to mate when I bought my v8 series 1 , it's still going strong


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Hotbulb said:


> My old series 3 stage 1 V8 , it was ex southern water board and had a hard top originally so i bought another series 3 ex military for £125 just to get the tilt and sticks , from memory it was plated to 7025 kgs gross weight and needed a class 7 mot , I sold it to mate when I bought my v8 series 1 , it's still going strong


 How about this ?

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/HTN8yrG04IY?feature=oembed



Hotbulb said:


> WRENCH said:
> 
> 
> > It was the local vintage vehicle show today, which I didn't attend because I would have spent money on something stupid. I wasn't quick enough with my camera, but one of each of these passed by.
> ...


 My brother in law had one with an onboard compressor and a PTO driven welding generator on board. The diesel ones were dire, and the petrol ones were better to drive than a land rover of the period, if I remember the body (hardtops) were a mix of steel and fiberglass?


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Here's something else I haven't seen in years.










A tree lopper bus. Usually made out of something past its sell by date.


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## Hotbulb (Jan 1, 2020)

WRENCH said:


> How about this ?
> 
> https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/HTN8yrG04IY?feature=oembed
> 
> My brother in law had one with an onboard compressor and a PTO driven welding generator on board. The diesel ones were dire, and the petrol ones were better to drive than a land rover of the period, if I remember the body (hardtops) were a mix of steel and fiberglass?


 Yes believe they were a mix of steel and fibre glass , they used the old BMC 2.2 lump and became part of the British Leyland group so we're built along side Landrover's , good old British Leyland always making use of old moulds and parts , the Land Rover Discovery 1 used the same door handles as fitted to Austin Maxis

My mate has just rebuilt his SWB series 3 onto a galvanised chassis complete with coil spring and disco axles I sold him which is fitted with a TVR 4.6 v8 , i told him off the other day for it being to quiet


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## Hotbulb (Jan 1, 2020)

WRENCH said:


> Here's something else I haven't seen in years.
> 
> 
> 
> A tree lopper bus. Usually made out of something past its sell by date.


 We have a few around these parts and remember seeing the later one as a kid around Brighton


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

In the late 1960's, early 1970's this time of year was good for making some money lifting potatoes. The first clip shows a short progression of methods, starting with a fork, the first machine is land driven (by the wheels through a gearbox, and probably a modified horse drawn machine) to the final harvester. Lifting was hard backbreaking work, but £5 a day was good in those days, and once you were big and strong enough, it went up to £8 for lifting the baskets (skulls) and tipping them into an open trailer. The final machine lifted the potatoes and conveyed them to I tonne boxes loaded on a trailer. The person on the back of the trailer is there to level out the boxes when they are full.

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/gHQBgBBMuiI?feature=oembed

How things have progressed. One of these things in the next clip passed me in town today heading for a field somewhere. Two lanes wide and escort vehicles front and rear.

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/x49Ol0Hqi0Y?feature=oembed

With the old harvester you had to stop to allow the next trailer to get into place, and they were barely able to work in muddy conditions. The latest stuff is track driven, has a hopper that "stores" the potatoes untill the next empty trailer gets into place.


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## Hotbulb (Jan 1, 2020)

Had a couple of grey fergies 20 odd years ago, used to go to vintage working shows and spend the day ploughing or cultivating in my own little world , pulled one out of a small holding and spent a morning getting it running again after being sat for 10 years , it came with a plough , banana loader and rigid tine cultivator all for the Grand sum of £375 , the other I paid £150 for, also used to collect all the Ferguson implements , leant to drive on one at the age of 8 back in 1974 when we were still farming happy days


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## chas g (Nov 20, 2016)

Hotbulb said:


> Had a couple of grey fergies 20 odd years ago, used to go to vintage working shows and spend the day ploughing or cultivating in my own little world , pulled one out of a small holding and spent a morning getting it running again after being sat for 10 years , it came with a plough , banana loader and rigid tine cultivator all for the Grand sum of £375 , the other I paid £150 for, also used to collect all the Ferguson implements , leant to drive on one at the age of 8 back in 1974 when we were still farming happy days


 Quite romantic memories of a bygone age :thumbsup:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Hotbulb said:


> also used to collect all the Ferguson implements


 Did you have this one ?

Genius.

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/6Eel6aWmvwk?feature=oembed


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## Hotbulb (Jan 1, 2020)

WRENCH said:


> Did you have this one ?
> 
> Genius.
> 
> https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/6Eel6aWmvwk?feature=oembed


 Yes but never brave enough to try it as it was made from tube and a bit old and crusty , also had a saw bench which frightened the life out of me …everyone I've met that's owned a open saw bench of some description usually has a few fingers missing, I ended swapping all my fergie stuff plus a stationery engine for a series 1 V8 Landrover like you do


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## johnbaz (Jan 30, 2005)

Back in the late 1970's I worked at a bar/wire turning/Peeling/reeling company called Sanderson Kaysers here in Sheffield, When we used to transport the products through the bays we had a small but very heavy three wheel maching for towing the trailors, We were told it was originally for pulling bombs on airfields during the war, It was similar to this pic I found but had no roof, Was shorter with all the wheels hidden inside the body work, The bodywork was very heavy at around 10 or 11mm thick and must have been formed by drop stamp or a press as it was way too thick to be shaped on an English wheel!!










It looked like the red part without the white roof, A very short wheelbase compared with the pic, The engine was a Ford 1500 non crossflow similar to what was in the mk1 Cortinas, It was mated to a three speed gearbox but the floor had a large piece of channel welded to it with slots so that only second and reverse could be used, It was only tack welded though and was easily broken so all three gears could be used, Trouble is that the factory floors were slippery with Aquicut oil/water spillage and shillensis (stop rust), It could pull wheelies in first gear!, The front wheel that steered had no stop and could be turned through 360°, one lad jumped on, grabbed the wheel and started it without depressing the clutch, It was in gear with a bit of lock on the steering, It shot sideways and the wheel turned breaking his thumb in the process, It was scrapped not long after!!

I've looked online for the real version but never actually managed to find any pics :mad0218:

John


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## Hotbulb (Jan 1, 2020)

johnbaz said:


> Back in the late 1970's I worked at a bar/wire turning/Peeling/reeling company called Sanderson Kaysers here in Sheffield, When we used to transport the products through the bays we had a small but very heavy three wheel maching for towing the trailors, We were told it was originally for pulling bombs on airfields during the war, It was similar to this pic I found but had no roof, Was shorter with all the wheels hidden inside the body work, The bodywork was very heavy at around 10 or 11mm thick and must have been formed by drop stamp or a press as it was way too thick to be shaped on an English wheel!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Post war Scammell Scarab as used on British Railways back in the fifties , this one I think Is fairly local to me

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scammell_Scarab


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Hotbulb said:


> Never owned a Ransomes always fancied one ,


 I picked mine up from a tomato grower, it still looked new, it wouldn't do what it was bought for so it was stored. It didn't need much to re-comission. Also the same place was a mint almost unused,

A Ford ET6.










Which I would have kept long term, once the V8 sidevalve unit was replaced withe a more powerful and economic diesel, but the owner got a very highly inflated idea of it's worth, so I left it.

Shame. :watch:


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## Hotbulb (Jan 1, 2020)

WRENCH said:


> I picked mine up from a tomato grower, it still looked new, it wouldn't do what it was bought for so it was stored. It didn't need much to re-comission. Also the same place was a mint almost unused,
> 
> A Ford ET6.
> 
> ...


 That's a shame Nice old truck probably would of been a English Flathead V8 same as the pilot, I currently own 4 American ones , two running in vehicles and two to be rebuilt for other projects , one of my favourite engines for its distinctive sound alone and one of the most expensive ways of going slow ha ha


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Hotbulb said:


> Nice old truck probably would of been a English Flathead V8 same as the pilot


 Yes it was. My mate's first car when he passed his test was a Pilot "woody". It's long gone. From the same source another pal got a Lincoln Zephyr with a V12 flat head, and promptly scrapped it. :angry:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

bridgeman said:


> where did British industry go wrong?


Had a visit from an old mate that inevitably ended up in "diesel talk" which lead me to remember this quote from the Sunday old timers thread. It can apply to a lot of stuff that didn't move with the times. In 1976 you could buy a new one of these,








Supplied without basics such as sun visors, wind up windows, sound proofing, or any other form of driver comfort. Usually with a Gardiner 180 engine.
Also in 1976 you could buy this, with 375 bhp and go from Forfar to Tehran and back.








Leyland brought out their "long haul" special in 1973, but used the public as their R & D department, and by the time they got things sorted out the writing was well and truly on the wall.
At these old truck show's, the crowd is full of "old guys" saying "they don't make them like that anymore" and I say "thank god".


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Here you go, look at the gap at the top of the driver's door.




This is an earlier Scania 140,




and it has a synchro gearbox, and sound proofing, and a tilt cab. Made from 1972-76.


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## tixntox (Jul 17, 2009)

Here's one that I rebuilt in the eighties:-


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