# Windows 10: To update or to not update? And why?



## Kutusov

Don't think there's a thread about this and I'm too lazy to go through all the tech forums and newsletters... anyone has a solid idea about this, besides the obvious "*wait for the first update as the first release will be a major clusterf*** as everything Microsoft*"?


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## bowie

> Don't think there's a thread about this and I'm too lazy to go through all the tech forums and newsletters... anyone has a solid idea about this, besides the obvious "*wait for the first update as the first release will be a major clusterf*** as everything Microsoft*"?


I would also like to know please.


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## William_Wilson

I really don't like the direction MS is heading with this, BUT... I have enough space on my second SSD to save an image file of my Win7 install, so I'll give it a go. I have copied my important storage directories to a USB terrorbyte drive as an extra precaution. What I am waiting for now is Microsoft to actually let me install it. They have killed all of the links to their site where you can check the status of your reservation. So... if I actually get it sometime soon, I'll leave my scathing unbiased review.

Oh, one thing I have read is that the install craps out in the middle on low powered systems.

Later,
William


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## Kutusov

Low powered? Are you talking about laptops?


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## trackrat

I would take a look at the Microsoft privacy policy due on August 1st before you install Windows 10.


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## Kutusov

trackrat said:


> I would take a look at the Microsoft privacy policy due on August 1st before you install Windows 10.


Why? What's in it? I'm trying not to stop being lazy... artytime: Besides, I always press "Accept" without reading a bloody thing, as most people do...


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## William_Wilson

Kutusov said:


> Low powered? Are you talking about laptops?


Memory and storage space, the initial download needs/needed a fair bit of room to work.

Later,
William


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## Kutusov

William_Wilson said:


> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> Low powered? Are you talking about laptops?
> 
> 
> 
> Memory and storage space, the initial download needs/needed a fair bit of room to work.
> 
> Later,
> William
Click to expand...

Oh, bollocks... I do have storage space but not memory, just a vague idea...


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## trackrat

Kutusov said:


> trackrat said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would take a look at the Microsoft privacy policy due on August 1st before you install Windows 10.
> 
> 
> 
> Why? What's in it? I'm trying not to stop being lazy... artytime: Besides, I always press "Accept" without reading a bloody thing, as most people do...
> 
> This is just part of it, it is 45 pages long.
> 
> "We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to", for example, "protect their customers" or "enforce the terms governing
> the use of the services".
Click to expand...


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## bowie

i can upgrade now coz i sighed up a while back don't know weather to or not :blind: :wacko: only using a laptop


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## tom

Playing with it on a dell laptop. So far so good but the auto update policy means that it will not be possible to restrict updates to keep old systems going.

in the long run Linux will be a better bet for long term support.

tom


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## Who. Me?

I upgraded last night. It's OK. Cortana doesn't work yet though. Just says not available in my selected region.


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## William_Wilson

trackrat said:


> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trackrat said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would take a look at the Microsoft privacy policy due on August 1st before you install Windows 10.
> 
> 
> 
> Why? What's in it? I'm trying not to stop being lazy... artytime: Besides, I always press "Accept" without reading a bloody thing, as most people do...
> 
> This is just part of it, it is 45 pages long.
> 
> "We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to", for example, "protect their customers" or "enforce the terms governing
> the use of the services".
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I don't care for much of what MS does, but there are a few things to consider. Windows 10 in an effort to be a cross platform OS, and is pushing for a great deal of cloud storage and management and off system operations. Any storage, hosting or email provider will turn your private material over to law enforcement without notice. Nothing transmitted via an internet connection is particularly secure. Google turns flagged search criteria IPs over to law enforcement.

Not a big deal. Something to be more concerned about is Smartphone app EULAs that give permission to the app providers to remotely turn on you phone's mic and camera!

Later,
William



bowie said:


> i can upgrade now coz i sighed up a while back don't know weather to or not :blind: :wacko: only using a laptop


I signed up a while ago as well, but nothing yet. Also, the little Win 10 reserved icon on the taskbar has disappeared from my machine.

ater,
William


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## handlehall

The windows 10 icon never appeared on my task bar - 8.1 installed & auto upgrades turned on.


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## Kutusov

William_Wilson said:


> Not a big deal. Something to be more concerned about is Smartphone app EULAs that give permission to the app providers to remotely turn on you phone's mic and camera!


Yeah, I've noticed that!! I really try to avoid them as I don't know if they really use that feature but it sounds very creepy!

Since you've mentioned smartphones, why are we restricted to Windows or Linux as OS? I mean, I wish I could have something light and effective as Android on my PC. There's nothing that I do on my PC that I can't do on my mobile, except that it's much faster and easier on the damn mobile...



handlehall said:


> The windows 10 icon never appeared on my task bar - 8.1 installed & auto upgrades turned on.


I'll give you mine. I confess I never looked into how you remove it but it sure ticks me off...


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## mattbeef

I had no phone calls at work so people must be super busy or its gone well for most so fingers crossed


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## RTM Boy

Upgraded from 8.1 to 10 on a laptop - went fine - took a while to download and install mind you. It asked about various what you might call interactive connection apps almost all of which I've turned off because of all the info they would auto install and feed back, which anyone can do in 10. Not that I'm as obsessed with privacy as some - I've nothing to hide and tbh if anyone out there is so interested in my boring little life amongst the millions of Windows 10 users, good luck to them - more a case of not clogging up bandwidth and such.

Seems to be a def improvement over 8.1 (not difficult), far more intuitive and straightforward and quicker too. I'll have more of a play over the w/e.


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## DJH584

M$ have tried to update my machine three times today and failed. So I found this on the web http://venturebeat.com/2015/07/29/how-to-download-and-install-windows-10-without-using-windows-update/ and done the necessary tool download. When I get time I'll give it a go.

David


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## Silver Hawk

Laptop and Desktop upgraded no problem at all...and much better than 8.1.


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## Kutusov

Well, like RTM said, doesn't take much to be better than the 8.1. I'm still on 7 and, even worst, I still prefer Windows XP to any other (well, win98SE was also very good) :biggrin:


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## Rotundus

Silver Hawk said:


> Laptop and Desktop upgraded no problem at all...and much better than 8.1.


same feedback from mate who has just done laptops for his children - both slighly older and not high end (the laptops not the children) without issue.

again seems better than 8.1 {more pc'ish} but then that wouldn't be hard now would it ...

we'll give it a few weeks before doing the work laptops so the early birds can have all the issues ...



Kutusov said:


> Well, like RTM said, doesn't take much to be better than the 8.1. I'm still on 7 and, even worst, I still prefer Windows XP to any other (well, win98SE was also very good) :biggrin:


bring back windows 95 i say - the only truly stable platform i have worked on since my unix days ...

now if i could just get them to do something about OS2 i'd be laughing (its a work thing - unfortunatly there is a fair bit of kit out there still running this sack of crap and i have to help maintain it... :-(

mergetastic !


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## William_Wilson

DJH584 said:


> M$ have tried to update my machine three times today and failed. So I found this on the web http://venturebeat.com/2015/07/29/how-to-download-and-install-windows-10-without-using-windows-update/ and done the necessary tool download. When I get time I'll give it a go.
> 
> David


The media creation thing started running then reported "Something happened" after a few seconds, and that's as far as I got.

Later,
William


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## Kutusov

William_Wilson said:


> The media creation thing started running then reported "Something happened" after a few seconds, and that's as far as I got.
> 
> Later,
> William


Ah, so it really is a genuine Microsoft product then!...


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## William_Wilson

Kutusov said:


> William_Wilson said:
> 
> 
> 
> The media creation thing started running then reported "Something happened" after a few seconds, and that's as far as I got.
> 
> Later,
> William
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so it really is a genuine Microsoft product then!...
Click to expand...

No, if this was a real MS product, I'd have a disk(s) that I could f%%k around with and force it to do what I wanted, then tell me who its daddy is! :biggrin:

Later,
William


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## Kutusov

Don't know, from what I hear Microsoft is trying to go the way Apple OS and Android went (this windows 10 thing is also for mobiles and tablets, isn't it?) but I fear they'll do it absolutely wrong as usual - like the Zune response to the IPod, if anyone even knows what I'm talking about...

From what I've heard so far, I'm very much inclined not to upgrade (or downgrade or sidegrade or whatever side it might be). And truth be told, for my sort of use any windows is fine.


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## Stan

DJH584 said:


> M$ have tried to update my machine three times today and failed. So I found this on the web http://venturebeat.com/2015/07/29/how-to-download-and-install-windows-10-without-using-windows-update/ and done the necessary tool download. When I get time I'll give it a go.
> 
> David


I think the servers have been overwhelmed both for Windows update and activation, things may calm down somewhat by the weekend. 

Download an .iso image or USB image here:-

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10


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## Kutusov

Stan said:


> DJH584 said:
> 
> 
> 
> M$ have tried to update my machine three times today and failed. So I found this on the web http://venturebeat.com/2015/07/29/how-to-download-and-install-windows-10-without-using-windows-update/ and done the necessary tool download. When I get time I'll give it a go.
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> I think the servers have been overwhelmed both for Windows update and activation, things may calm down somewhat by the weekend.
> 
> Download an .iso image or USB image here:-
> 
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
Click to expand...

How does one boot up from an ISO like that? I recently downloaded Win7 because my original copy is in Swedish - and even after patching up with English some menus and warnings still come up in Swedish - but I couldn't figure out how to make a clean install. I burned the original file, used several programs like PowerISO to creat a boot DVD and everything failed. Bios is set up to boot from DVD and other disks work but not that one.


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## Stan

Kutusov said:


> Stan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DJH584 said:
> 
> 
> 
> M$ have tried to update my machine three times today and failed. So I found this on the web http://venturebeat.com/2015/07/29/how-to-download-and-install-windows-10-without-using-windows-update/ and done the necessary tool download. When I get time I'll give it a go.
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> I think the servers have been overwhelmed both for Windows update and activation, things may calm down somewhat by the weekend.
> 
> Download an .iso image or USB image here:-
> 
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does one boot up from an ISO like that?
Click to expand...

You have to upgrade from it, once you have upgraded, your Windows 10 key will be registered with the MS activation servers and you can the do a clean install from the .iso at any time in the future, if you need to. Windows registration is a lot different than it used to be. 

You must upgrade first, the iso I posted is a shortcut to waiting for the overloaded Windows update servers (at the moment).


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## Kutusov

Thanks Stan, that explains it! I'm not old enough to be saying things like this but I'm pretty fed up with these kids always changing the way things are done :aggressive: artytime:


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## William_Wilson

Kutusov said:


> Don't know, from what I hear Microsoft is trying to go the way Apple OS and Android went (this windows 10 thing is also for mobiles and tablets, isn't it?) but I fear they'll do it absolutely wrong as usual - like the Zune response to the IPod, if anyone even knows what I'm talking about...
> 
> From what I've heard so far, I'm very much inclined not to upgrade (or downgrade or sidegrade or whatever side it might be). And truth be told, for my sort of use any windows is fine.


Yes it is going to be a cross platform product. It will continuously update itself, as there is no way to disable this. So the possibility of frequent instabilities in the software and bandwidth hogging at the worst possible moment is quite real. To keep it thin and trim for lesser devices MS will be discontinuing things like Media Center and other things that used to be part and parcel to Windows. They will be eliminating many browser add-ons. Some options will be available for free download and others will come at a price, while some things will be left to 3rd party providers. They are pushing for people to use "cloud" storage for files and use online email accounts. Sounds like a perfect system for people that never really do anything with their device. Otherwise, it sounds like a disaster.

Oh, oh, oh the little Win10 icon popped up in the tray while I was typing, here goes. :laugh:

Later,
William


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## Kutusov

No choice not to update?? Right... I dont need to know more. If I have no control over it, I don't want it. And I know that google and 1000 others blabla. I'll rephrase it then... ilusion of control. Love my ilusions or delusions! :tongue:


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## William_Wilson

William_Wilson said:


> Oh, oh, oh the little Win10 icon popped up in the tray while I was typing, here goes. :laugh:
> 
> Later,
> William


Well, it turns out my system is almost ready for updating! They'll let me know in a few days or *WEEKS* when it is my turn. What a giant load of BS. :angry:

Later,
William


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## Kutusov

MSBS :biggrin:


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## William_Wilson

:laugh:

Later,
William


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## Who. Me?

Has anyone else who's installed it in the UK managed to get Cortana working (without setting the Region to US)? If so, can you share the process?

I like the return of the start menu, but I've a touch screen laptop and the trade off is that all the buttons are now a bit too small to use easily on that start menu.

Also, why the f&&k has it installed 'Candy Crush'? I'm not twelve (but in the course of writing that, I've found that there isn't an 'irritated/angry' emoticon on TWF that doesn't make it look like a twelve year old wrote it :biggrin: )


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## scottswatches

Candy Crush is great!

Haven't upgraded yet, not sure if i will. Might wait three weeks until 10.1 appears...


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## Haggis

trackrat said:


> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trackrat said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would take a look at the Microsoft privacy policy due on August 1st before you install Windows 10.
> 
> 
> 
> Why? What's in it? I'm trying not to stop being lazy... artytime: Besides, I always press "Accept" without reading a bloody thing, as most people do...
> 
> This is just part of it, it is 45 pages long.
> 
> "We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to", for example, "protect their customers" or "enforce the terms governing
> the use of the services".
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I think they are looking for dealers, Roy must have asked them.


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## Rotundus

William_Wilson said:


> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> William_Wilson said:
> 
> 
> 
> The media creation thing started running then reported "Something happened" after a few seconds, and that's as far as I got.
> 
> Later,
> William
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, so it really is a genuine Microsoft product then!...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, if this was a real MS product, I'd have a disk(s) that I could f%%k around with and force it to do what I wanted, then tell me who its daddy is! :biggrin:
> 
> Later,
> William
Click to expand...

no, perhaps you are thinking of linux (without the disks) :biggrin:

&&&&&&&&&&

this auto merge is great :thumbsup:

this forum is about as power user as i get these days on a non work computator ... windows 7 is fine for now :blind:


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## mel

Mystic Mel predicts this is just another step in Micro$haft'$ drive towards world domination and Government - - :whistling:

President Gates will rule :bash:


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## martinzx

Upgraded yesterday so far very good....ref privacy you can opt out... also STAN you cannot burn via ISO, without out first updating Win 7, 8.1 etc, then you can do a fresh install, but you 1st have to upgrade, if you want it for free . Hope that makes sense 

Here is how to download Win 10 instantly via the Media Creation Tool

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

Cheers Martin


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## Stan

martinzx said:


> Upgraded yesterday so far very good....ref privacy you can opt out... also STAN you cannot burn via ISO, without out first updating Win 7, 8.1 etc, then you can do a fresh install, but you 1st have to upgrade, if you want it for free . Hope that makes sense
> 
> Here is how to download Win 10 instantly via the Media Creation Tool
> 
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
> 
> Cheers Martin


Hi Martin, I upgraded from the ISO to save waiting for Windows update. The ISO will come in useful should I have a drive failure.


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## Always"watching"

This is a difficult one for me as I tend to a bit conservative when it comes to changing something I already like and get on with. I realise that there may be advantages to upgrading to Windows 10 but I have decided not to for the following reasons:

1) I have got used to Windows 7 and I really like it;

2) I do not have any secondary devices like tablets and smart phones that I would be using in conjunction with my PC and my laptop, so one of the main reasons for switching to Windows 10 is a bit redundant;

3) I have a feeling that my computers - well, Kristina's PC and my laptop - don't really have enough memory/work space to sensibly download Windows 10;

4) I have been advised that it might be better to wait until Windows 10 has been debugged etc. before upgrading to it, and it would seem sensible to purchase my next computer with a decent version of Windows 10 already installed.

So there is my position and I think I am sticking to it, for the time being anyway.


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## Bob66

I've stuck with Windows XP on my PC and laptop as i've become very familiar with it but felt i might have to move on to a newer version of Windows.

I was given another Laptop and stumbled across Zorin 9 whilst online and thought i'd try it.

It's basically Ubuntu but as it includes Wine you can run some of your Windows programmes on it and has the look of Windows XP or 7,it's your choice.

I'm really enjoying it.


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## BondandBigM

I've only ever had a couple of lap tops and two desk tops, just used whatever was on them until they stop working. So by the time this one packs up it will probably be Windows 15 or something.

:laugh: :laugh:

So long as I can get a bit of tinternet and something to do a bit of music with I'm not all that bothered. But one minor question out of interest, is this latest version any good with a touch screen as my current desktop all in one thing has one. ??


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## William_Wilson

BondandBigM said:


> So long as I can get a bit of tinternet and something to do a bit of music with I'm not all that bothered. But one minor question out of interest, is this latest version any good with a touch screen as my current desktop all in one thing has one. ??


It should be, it is supposed to be for desktops, laptops, tablets and phones. The touch screen stuff will be a variation of the Win 8 system.

Later,
William


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## Who. Me?

> So long as I can get a bit of tinternet and something to do a bit of music with I'm not all that bothered. But one minor question out of interest, is this latest version any good with a touch screen as my current desktop all in one thing has one. ??


The buttons to access settings etc are smaller, so they're a bit fiddly to use by touch now, but still better than having to switch to the start screen to open an application


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## BondandBigM

Who. Me? said:


> So long as I can get a bit of tinternet and something to do a bit of music with I'm not all that bothered. But one minor question out of interest, is this latest version any good with a touch screen as my current desktop all in one thing has one. ??
> 
> 
> 
> The buttons to access settings etc are smaller, so they're a bit fiddly to use by touch now, but still better than having to switch to the start screen to open an application
Click to expand...

It's a fairly big screen probably about 20" so the touch set up isn't too bad compared to a phone or small tablet. The only problem is in the summer I get flies landing on the screen which causes all sorts of havoc changing pages, task bar positions and various other problems which took a bit of figuring out to reset to normal. Actually not the best thing I've had.

:laugh: :laugh:


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## William_Wilson

BondandBigM said:


> Who. Me? said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> So long as I can get a bit of tinternet and something to do a bit of music with I'm not all that bothered. But one minor question out of interest, is this latest version any good with a touch screen as my current desktop all in one thing has one. ??
> 
> 
> 
> The buttons to access settings etc are smaller, so they're a bit fiddly to use by touch now, but still better than having to switch to the start screen to open an application
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a fairly big screen probably about 20" so the touch set up isn't too bad compared to a phone or small tablet. The only problem is in the summer I get flies landing on the screen which causes all sorts of havoc changing pages, task bar positions and various other problems which took a bit of figuring out to reset to normal. Actually not the best thing I've had.
> 
> :laugh: :laugh:
Click to expand...

That is the funniest thing I've read in a while. :laugh:

Later,
William


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## trackrat

Mine is staying with Windows 7, as I dual boot with Linux.

If I upgrade it will make Linux unbootable and I cannot be bothered altering the boot strap to get the dual boot working again.


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## Who. Me?

> The only problem is in the summer I get flies landing on the screen which causes all sorts of havoc changing pages, task bar positions and various other problems which took a bit of figuring out to reset to normal. Actually not the best thing I've had.
> 
> :laugh: :laugh:


My wife keeps doing stuff like that. She points and my screen and manages to launch half a dozen apps.


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## BondandBigM

William_Wilson said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who. Me? said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> So long as I can get a bit of tinternet and something to do a bit of music with I'm not all that bothered. But one minor question out of interest, is this latest version any good with a touch screen as my current desktop all in one thing has one. ??
> 
> 
> 
> The buttons to access settings etc are smaller, so they're a bit fiddly to use by touch now, but still better than having to switch to the start screen to open an application
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a fairly big screen probably about 20" so the touch set up isn't too bad compared to a phone or small tablet. The only problem is in the summer I get flies landing on the screen which causes all sorts of havoc changing pages, task bar positions and various other problems which took a bit of figuring out to reset to normal. Actually not the best thing I've had.
> 
> :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the funniest thing I've read in a while. :laugh:
> 
> Later,
> William
Click to expand...

The thing was when I bought I didn't know it had a touch screen as it came with a keyboard and mouse, I would go to the kitchen for a V&RB come back and the screen would be full of gobbledygook. I though it was broken until I happened to see a house fly land on it.

:biggrin:


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## William_Wilson

BondandBigM said:


> William_Wilson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who. Me? said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> So long as I can get a bit of tinternet and something to do a bit of music with I'm not all that bothered. But one minor question out of interest, is this latest version any good with a touch screen as my current desktop all in one thing has one. ??
> 
> 
> 
> The buttons to access settings etc are smaller, so they're a bit fiddly to use by touch now, but still better than having to switch to the start screen to open an application
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a fairly big screen probably about 20" so the touch set up isn't too bad compared to a phone or small tablet. The only problem is in the summer I get flies landing on the screen which causes all sorts of havoc changing pages, task bar positions and various other problems which took a bit of figuring out to reset to normal. Actually not the best thing I've had.
> 
> :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the funniest thing I've read in a while. :laugh:
> 
> Later,
> William
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The thing was when I bought I didn't know it had a touch screen as it came with a keyboard and mouse, I would go to the kitchen for a V&RB come back and the screen would be full of gobbledygook. I though it was broken until I happened to see a house fly land on it.
> 
> :biggrin:
Click to expand...

Fantastic! :laugh:

Later,
William


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## Kutusov

Whaaat?? Are PC touch screens all that sensitive??

Well, I hadn't though about the multiple platform thing as a reason to upgrade. I don't run anything windows other than the PC and I won't anything but Android on phones and tables for a very long time. Google would really have to screw up big time for me to even remotely consider Apple's stuff or Windows.

I'm strating to get more and more curious about Ubuntu. Windows 7 is fine in my prehistoric PC but Chrome, Firefox and their damn flash plugins are killing me. They hate each other and give me long freezes for no good reasons. Also, windows keeps running tons of stuff in the background for no good reason, IMO. As I refuse to upgarde my PC because 1)I hate it and I want it to suffer and die 2)I'm cheap 3)Don't care to learn what is what nowadays, some lighter OS might be nice.


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## William_Wilson

Android is a pure concentrated form of semisolid evil! Not unlike what squirts out of a baby's bottom.

Just sayin'. :biggrin:

Later,
William


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## Kutusov

You're probably right Will but I love it! :wacko: (that was hard to write, with your baby squirt analogy...) Everything works great, stuff doesn't clash with each other and is very well integrated.


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## BondandBigM

Kutusov said:


> Whaaat?? Are PC touch screens all that sensitive??


I don't know about other brands but mine is, it's a Lenovo, I tried the old tea towel flick for swatting them but missing and hitting the screen just caused even more havoc !!!

I've seen widows pop up full of codes that I didn't even know existed, I'm surprised it's still working

:laugh: :laugh:


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## Kutusov

BondandBigM said:


> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whaaat?? Are PC touch screens all that sensitive??
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about other brands but mine is, it's a Lenovo, I tried the old tea towel flick for swatting them but missing and hitting the screen just caused even more havoc !!!
> 
> I've seen widows pop up full of codes that I didn't even know existed, I'm surprised it's still working
> 
> :laugh: :laugh:
Click to expand...

You need to go back to the good old days of CRTs when we would put a second glass in front of the screen, supposedly to act as radiation filter :biggrin:


----------



## William_Wilson

Last night I turned on auto update, and my system eventually started downloading the first part of the Win10 update. Every time I ran system update it would attempt to install but fail. This morning I found the registry DWORD entry I had to add to force the update to run. After doing this it then spent several hours download again. When it came time to install, it was fairly quick, in that I have a relatively fast processor, 16gb of ram and an SSD.

After firing it up it was as bad as the Win95 days. The MS driver for NVidia is rubbish, not surprising considering how rare NVidia cards are. :whistling: My software seems to be working, after I figure out where they are. :laugh:

Now to figure out how to select the sound system I really want to use.

Later,
William


----------



## Kutusov

Microsoft is sooooo bad.... I mean, they can't even work with Nvidia to have drivers ready? It's not like it's something that can wait. I was just checking their site and nope, no win10 driver available, at least for my card.


----------



## William_Wilson

NVidia got a driver ready jiffy quick, I ran it and at the end it said the MS driver was newer and didn't complete. I did a restart and it did work. The problem became that the NVidia HDMI audio driver didn't make Win10 happy. I had to remove the HDMI audio device from the audio hardware list and then do a search for new hardware in the device manager. The device showed up under a new name and I could set it as default. I run my NVidia card to a Onkyo home theatre receiver. I also run the Intel motherboard onboard Realtek sound optically to my Creative sound card, which is optically connected to the receiver as well.

Unless I find something 10 is really good at pretty quickly, I can't see how any average user would benefit from the change.

Later,
William


----------



## Kutusov

William_Wilson said:


> Unless I find something 10 is really good at pretty quickly, I can't see how any average user would benefit from the change.
> 
> Later,
> William


Right! That's the thing I wanted to know! :thumbsup:


----------



## Stan

Quote said:


> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> William_Wilson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless I find something 10 is really good at pretty quickly, I can't see how any average user would benefit from the change.
> 
> Later,
> William
> 
> 
> 
> Right! That's the thing I wanted to know! :thumbsup:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In my opinion this release of Windows 10 is a beta, MS is using people to test the thing and has implemented automatic logging and reporting back to home.
> 
> I installed Win 10 on two machines, one works well enough, to date.
> 
> The second (a Thinkpad x200) installed okay but crashed after I clicked and installed the "Lenovo Companion" app/ programme. On reboot it took twice as long to boot. Subsequent reboots showed the same problem. Check disk found no issues but the system was trying to validate at the BIOS screen for 30 seconds, despite all efforts to sort the problem out.
> 
> I went back to my latest (an hour before I installed Win 10) disk image of Win 7, and the Thinkpad is back to normal.
> 
> A programme/ app should not break an operating system, the OS should be robust enough to cope with a broken "app" from a trusted partner! FFS!
> 
> I'll reinstall the disk image I have to the Acer machine I originally installed on it tomorrow, I'm not going to be an MS test subject for now, despite it being "Windows 10 is free!".
> 
> Let's see if Windows 10 is better in May 2016.
Click to expand...


----------



## William_Wilson

Stan said:


> Quote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> William_Wilson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless I find something 10 is really good at pretty quickly, I can't see how any average user would benefit from the change.
> 
> Later,
> William
> 
> 
> 
> Right! That's the thing I wanted to know! :thumbsup:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In my opinion this release of Windows 10 is a beta, MS is using people to test the thing and has implemented automatic logging and reporting back to home.
> 
> I installed Win 10 on two machines, one works well enough, to date.
> 
> The second (a Thinkpad x200) installed okay but crashed after I clicked and installed the "Lenovo Companion" app/ programme. On reboot it took twice as long to boot. Subsequent reboots showed the same problem. Check disk found no issues but the system was trying to validate at the BIOS screen for 30 seconds, despite all efforts to sort the problem out.
> 
> I went back to my latest (an hour before I installed Win 10) disk image of Win 7, and the Thinkpad is back to normal.
> 
> A programme/ app should not break an operating system, the OS should be robust enough to cope with a broken "app" from a trusted partner! FFS!
> 
> I'll reinstall the disk image I have to the Acer machine I originally installed on it tomorrow, I'm not going to be an MS test subject for now, despite it being "Windows 10 is free!".
> 
> Let's see if Windows 10 is better in May 2016.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I give up with this forum software, it's more bugger than Windows 10!
Click to expand...

 Yes Stan, the forum editor is a big steaming pile. Navigating the quotes and editing takes loads of patience. Deleting one quote from the nest can be a near Herculean task. The editor will randomly choose not to display an image when the URL is typed in and instead link it, which angers me to no end.

Later,
William


----------



## Kutusov

:biggrin: I don't know what you did there but I couldn't even quote your edited line! I'm yet to figure out how this quote business works, all I know is that I'm not alone as we get huuuuuge quoted discussion trees on the forum :biggrin:

Well, all of this Win10 business, and the sudden choking up of my Win7 that was running so well, made me download LXLE which is supposedly a very light distribution of some sort of Linux/Ubuntu or some other build. All I need now is the patience to install and try it. From what I've read there's problems with a dual boot installation with win7 64bits so, if I don't like it, I would have to reinstall everything back. I'm theoretically on my holiday, so I should be looking for something to be PO about...


----------



## William_Wilson

I just realised you can collapse the quotes by clicking the little pointy things on the left. :laugh:

Later,
William


----------



## Kutusov

William_Wilson said:


> I just realised you can collapse the quotes by clicking the little pointy things on the left. :laugh:
> 
> Later,
> William


Sometimes you can, sometimes it just adds a line... :wacko:


----------



## Stan

Quote said:


> I wanted to reply but was forced to quote, to what, I have no idea. :argue:


----------



## William_Wilson

Returning to Windows 10, I now need to determine how to get "Select All", "Move To Folder" and other such commands back in the Windows Explorer. Windows does not seem to understand that I have no interest in shipping my photos off to Microsoft's online water vapour storage. :whistling:

Later,
William



Stan said:


> Quote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to reply but was forced to quote, to what, I have no idea. :argue:
Click to expand...

The "fun" never stops. :laugh:

Later,
William


----------



## Stan

I'm taking a sabbatical, until this mess is sorted. :wink:

This post looks like it may not be a quote? But I dunner trust my eyes! :laugh: :laugh:


----------



## William_Wilson

William_Wilson said:


> Returning to Windows 10, I now need to determine how to get "Select All", "Move To Folder" and other such commands back in the Windows Explorer. Windows does not seem to understand that I have no interest in shipping my photos off to Microsoft's online water vapour storage. :whistling:
> 
> Later,
> William
> 
> 
> 
> Stan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to reply but was forced to quote, to what, I have no idea. :argue:
> 
> 
> 
> The "fun" never stops. :laugh:
> 
> Later,
> William
Click to expand...

There, I edited out the phantom quote. Let us see if it stays that way. :wink:

Later,
William


----------



## Stan

William_Wilson said:


> William_Wilson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Returning to Windows 10, I now need to determine how to get "Select All", "Move To Folder" and other such commands back in the Windows Explorer. Windows does not seem to understand that I have no interest in shipping my photos off to Microsoft's online water vapour storage. :whistling:
> 
> Later,
> William
> 
> 
> 
> Stan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to reply but was forced to quote, to what, I have no idea. :argue:
> 
> 
> 
> The "fun" never stops. :laugh:
> 
> Later,
> William
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There, I edited out the phantom quote. Let us see if it stays that way. :wink:
> 
> Later,
> William
Click to expand...

It may have worked, I wish I had your patience Will. :biggrin:


----------



## William_Wilson

:laugh:

Later,
William


----------



## Stan

I suppose we should try to get back to commenting on Windows 10 AKA Windows Shopper? :biggrin:

I'll do me best, in 9 months or so. :wink:


----------



## William_Wilson

What I'm seeing so far is that they have hidden or removed much of what people who know what they are doing would use. It seems to have been replaced with social media and time waster crap apps that appeal to the self obsessed.
An example of reduced usefulness, the built-in picture viewer doesn't actually tell you the name of the file you are looking at, and right clicking on it doesn't allow you to see the properties. 

Later,
William


----------



## Kutusov

I googled your drag and drop problem when you posted and got tins of hits on stuff like that. I guess it's like cars, we used to see the engine and be able to fiddle around there, now they are all covered and they assume you don't need to know anything... or mess with anything, probably the real reason.


----------



## artistmike

Last year I had a nice new PC made by PCSpecialist and managed to get it loaded with Windows 7, rather than Windows 8, and it runs extremely well and has been brilliantly stable, so at the moment I have absolutely no plans to do the upgrade to Windows 10. Certainly not at least till more work has been done as a result of the experiences of the first to take it up and probably not even then as there's nothing in the spec of Windows 10 that convinces me that I need it. ... Bring back Windows 98SE I say.. :biggrin:


----------



## JTW

artistmike said:


> Last year I had a nice new PC made by PCSpecialist and managed to get it loaded with Windows 7, rather than Windows 8, and it runs extremely well and has been brilliantly stable, so at the moment I have absolutely no plans to do the upgrade to Windows 10. Certainly not at least till more work has been done as a result of the experiences of the first to take it up and probably not even then as there's nothing in the spec of Windows 10 that convinces me that I need it. ... Bring back Windows 98SE I say.. :biggrin:


No not Windows - DOS, 2.11 anyone. On a serious note, I've upgraded from 7 to 10 and found it to be really easy other than having to reinstall Kaspersky antivirus. early days I know but the easiest move I've experienced.

The most annoying part is the fact that it associates file types with Microsoft stuff bur correcting that is 10 minutes work.


----------



## trackrat

I upgraded the wife's laptop yesterday and after spending an hour getting rid of the Microsoft crap she did not want, she decided to play a DVD film.

Oh no such luck, only by purchasing an app from the Microsoft store.

As I mainly use Linux I went straight to VLC and installed that and viola she could play her old films.

If you right click the Windows button you will find Control panel, Task manager, Device manager, CMD etc.


----------



## Silver Hawk

I always do what Jon Honeyball says...and he says upgrade. :thumbsup:


----------



## Kutusov

artistmike said:


> ... Bring back Windows 98SE I say.. :biggrin:


Oh yes!! :thumbsup:


----------



## mach 0.0013137

My (fairly) tame techie nerd is looking into W10 for Caroline & I so we`re waiting to see what he says :biggrin:


----------



## Kutusov

mach 0.0013137 said:


> My (fairly) tame techie nerd is looking into W10 for Caroline & I so we`re waiting to see what he says :biggrin:


Have a feeling I know what he'll say about it...


----------



## mach 0.0013137

Maybe not, his reply to my email included this comment - "I've been looking at windows 10, give me a few more days, but it looks worthwhile from what I've seen so far."

He`s never let me down so far, so if he say it`s ok I`ll trust him :biggrin:


----------



## William_Wilson

What joy!!! Last night I discovered that the Edge browser couldn't play embedded videos. I switched back to IE and they wouldn't work with it either. IE was kind enough to kick out an error indicating that the LAME MP3 codec was acting up. I began trying uninstall codec packs and the software they served. Not only did I fail to rectify the problem, I managed to critically wound Windows. This lead to a reinstall of Windows 10 and the scrubbing of the Windows 7 software. I've had the ecstasy of reinstalling sundry large and time consuming programs. I've been creating restore points all day and evening, just in case one of my older programs buggers everything up. The next problem was getting DVDs to work. Anyway, if you don't want to spend money on something that was free in Win 7, then try Daum Potplayer. It is quite flexible, especially with the audio output options.

Now I have to wait for Microsoft to make some new camera codecs so that all of the graphics programs can handle Sony RAW images. It took them years to do it for Windows 7. 

Later,
William


----------



## BondandBigM

Can I assume that if you buy a new machine preloaded with W10 you won't have any of these issues ??


----------



## BondandBigM

:biggrin:


----------



## Kutusov

William_Wilson said:


> What joy!!! Last night I discovered that the Edge browser couldn't play embedded videos. I switched back to IE and they wouldn't work with it either. IE was kind enough to kick out an error indicating that the LAME MP3 codec was acting up. I began trying uninstall codec packs and the software they served. Not only did I fail to rectify the problem, I managed to critically wound Windows. This lead to a reinstall of Windows 10 and the scrubbing of the Windows 7 software. I've had the ecstasy of reinstalling sundry large and time consuming programs. I've been creating restore points all day and evening, just in case one of my older programs buggers everything up. The next problem was getting DVDs to work. Anyway, if you don't want to spend money on something that was free in Win 7, then try Daum Potplayer. It is quite flexible, especially with the audio output options.
> 
> Now I have to wait for Microsoft to make some new camera codecs so that all of the graphics programs can handle Sony RAW images. It took them years to do it for Windows 7.
> 
> Later,
> William


Oh, just go back to win7 and let it go... BTW, I use Mediamonkey for music and have been using KMPlayer for video. Those two have have tons and tons of options and I haven't yet came across a file they couldn't play. Can't you use those instead of the Win rubbish media players?


----------



## William_Wilson

I always try to keep my Windows as Microsoft as possible, it tends to be more stable that way. There seems to be a fair bit of Windows 7 functionality but there is no direct link to it. You need to use the search option to find some of the programs. Corupta isn't available jn Canada yet, so it's type, type, type.

Later,
William


----------



## William_Wilson

Yee hah mofos... You can now paste a YouTube video into a forum message and press play while remaining in the editor without it crashing. WinX is good for something after all. :biggrin:

Later,
William


----------



## Kutusov

I'm not sure why I started to use Mediamonkey, I think it was because WMP wouldn't play or sync MP3 and IPod at some point. And I end up with some downloaded video formats that WMP won't play...

BTW, having external hard drive problems again, or apparently I am... it shows up in explorer, I can open it, play stuff from it, copy and paste but Windows refuses to accept that when trying to back it up. Keeps telling me the HD is faulty and chkdsk /F will hang on the 3rt step (usn journal or some cr*p like that). I was trying to back it up before attempting to install LXLE.


----------



## William_Wilson

Defrag it first, that might find a problem.

Later,
William


----------



## Kutusov

Right... defraging now


----------



## Thomasr

meanwhile on El Capitan..


----------



## Kutusov

Thomasr said:


> meanwhile on El Capitan..


That's an IOS, isn't it? Tut-tut... no man worthy of that name runs such a thing... too smooth, no problems to fix artytime:


----------



## JTW

Kutusov said:


> Thomasr said:
> 
> 
> 
> meanwhile on El Capitan..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's an IOS, isn't it? Tut-tut... no man worthy of that name runs such a thing... too smooth, no problems to fix artytime:
Click to expand...

Real men run Linux


----------



## rhaythorne

I've upgraded five machines so far. Here's what I've found.


8 year-old Dell Latitude D630 laptop - Clean install of Windows 10 Tech Preview. Works perfectly.

5 year-old Dell Latitude E5500 laptop - Upgraded from Windows 8.1 Pro 32-bit. This was a triple-boot machine running Linux, Windows 8.1 and Windows XP. Works perfectly and Linux and XP were left untouched as they should be.

Microsoft Surface Pro 3 - Upgraded from windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit. Works perfectly, but this is to be expected given that it's a Microsoft device so has probably been subject to the most exhaustive testing. If they'd got this one wrong it would have been a PR disaster.

Dell Inspiron 5000 Series All-in-One touchscreen desktop - Upgraded fom Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit. Works extremely well. But, I've had just one blue screen of death relating to the video driver. I can't remember the last time I had a BSOD so would guess this is down to the recent upgrade, but maybe it was just a coincidence. Not a major problem anyway.

Dell Venue 8 Pro tablet - Upgraded from Windows 8.1 32-bit. This was a disaster and rendered the machine unusable. The upgrade process itself worked perfectly, but the result looked like an explosion in a paint and tile factory. I think "Continuum", as they call it, which is supposed to make Windows 10 adapt to the type of device it's running on (desktop, tablet or whatever), got very confused and I ended up with bits of Desktop and bits of Start screen plastered all over the place. The virtual keyboard wouldn't work and my bluetooth mouse and keyboard wouldn't connect. So I've done a factory reset on this device and will have another go later. Maybe I was just unlucky as other people have upgraded this device successfully.

Overall, I like Windows 10; not as much as I liked 8.1, but for people running Windows 7 or who don't like 8.x it makes perfect sense to upgrade. It brings a lot of under-the-hood improvements across from Windows 8.x but retains a good deal of familiarity for Windows 7 users. I'm not keen on the apparent lack of control over Windows Updates but we'll see how that works out over the coming months. Edge, the new browser, is great and I especially like "Reading" mode which re-renders web pages without all the banners and side bars etc. leaving a clean page with just the main article present.


----------



## ESL

Real men get proper work done, not spend ages just trying to get an OS that "sort of works, most of the time" which is what Windoze has been since the Vista debacle. Give me MacOS X any day. Interesting that MS skipped 9 and went to 10 instead: a bit of Mac envy, maybe?

I'll grant you, Win 7SP1 is actually very stable and - arguably - people using it already should perhaps wait until all the early adopters of 10 get the bugs worked out in about 6 months time and after, no doubt, multiple forced updates from MS (which of course, you are contractually bound to receive).

I'm sure Win10 will be just fine on a high-ish specced PC and actually purchased pre-installed with it. But as an ex-MS WIN convert and having been through virtually all flavours of DOS, every single version of windows (excluding the frankly appalling v8), UBUNTU, Red Hat, and Puppy Linux's, I eventually went Mac OS X and have never looked back.

Reading mode in the Edge browser is a good thing and about time MS caught up with Webkit browsers. All versions of IOS and Mac OS have had reading mode for yonks and it does make reading text heavy web pages a lot easier.

But the last post, I think, illustrates the point. some PC's will update without any problems, others will need tinkering with, perhaps only coming together properly if tinkered with by someone with a great deal of under-the-hood-knowledge, whilst still others, will have an absolute disaster on their hands and an unusable PC at the end of it.

And the problem is - the average "Joe" won't know which category they are in until they try to upgrade.

I hope they have a robust and up to date back up!


----------



## artistmike

> I'll grant you, Win 7SP1 is actually very stable and - arguably - people using it already should perhaps wait until all the early adopters of 10 get the bugs worked out in about 6 months time and after, no doubt, multiple forced updates from MS (which of course, you are contractually bound to receive).


And that's the way I'll almost certainly go as, to be fair, I have found Windows 7 Pro a very good, stable and easy to work with operating system. I have used Macs professionally and have never liked them them and now am so used to the way that Windows "thinks" that I find it very intuitive to work with.

Waiting a while seems sensible and there is no hurry, with a year to keep an eye on how things go with other's experiences I see no real point in jumping in now. To be fair though most people seem to be going through the process without any pain and the only problems really seem to be driver ones, and that will improve with time as new drivers are produced, so again, the "wait and see" approach seems good to me...


----------



## SlimJim16v

Found this very useful link over on British Blades. Despite doing a custom install and turning off the nosey settings, I was shocked at how much more that still need to be turned off.

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/08/windows_10_privacy_problems_here_s_how_bad_they_are_and_how_to_plug_them.html

The only negative I've noticed with mine, a netbook, is that it's slowed down Firefox. It was so bad that I had to uninstall Adobe Flash, still not great.


----------



## Haggis

Bottom line is can you still get porn?


----------



## rhaythorne

Well, let's face it, nowadays a lot of your personal data, like it or not, is going to be known by and to some extent used by Amazon, Apple, BT, Google, Microsoft, Virgin Media (in alphabetical order) etc. depending on which particular computing ecosystem you use or which particular services you've subscribed to. Not to mention the vast array of Social Media platforms that countless millions have signed-up to and the multitude of advertising/marketing networks that harvest such data. Get over it!

Microsoft's Privacy Policy is neither particularly better nor worse than than those of others. The settings to turn off various privacy-related features in Windows 10 that you might object to are not hidden.

The two things people currently seem particularly concerned about are "Wi-Fi Sense" and "Choose how updates are delivered - PC's on my local network and PC's on the Internet". The first, "Wi-Fi Sense", is in my opinion a neat idea and of no particular security concern at all. If an attacker wants to target you by breaking into your Wi-Fi network, they'll break into it. Having access to your Wi-Fi simply by being one of your known contacts is therefore not much of a problem (most of them wont know and many wont be in range of your Wi-Fi and may not even know where you live anyway) and you can still have features like MAC address filtering enabled which would prevent automatic access. But I'm hoping Microsoft will enrich this feature so that you can select which of your contacts (i.e. good friends and acquaintances only) you choose to permit to have access rather than the current everyone or no one scenario. The second feature concerning how Windows Updates are deployed might be a little bit more of a concern. Windows Updates can now be deployed on a peer-to-peer type basis. There are two settings; one enables updates to be delivered from and to other PC's on the Internet as well as those on your local network. But the default is for peer-to-peer updates to only involve other machines on your local network, not those on the Internet. This is a good thing and, for home users at least, will reduce your bandwidth consumption, not increase it. The basic idea is that if you have, say, three computers on your network, only one will have to download the updates from Microsoft and it can then distribute it to the other two machines. Previously, each computer would have had to download all the updates individually, thereby consuming three times as much bandwidth.

And yes, of course you can still get porn. Bottom line is, nobody really cares if you surf for porn, although you might if you get a targeted advert in your browser when the missus is looking over your shoulder


----------



## Kutusov

Haggis said:


> Bottom line is can you still get porn?


You can but everybody will know what sort of porn you like, So get ready to acknowledge that yes, you do like weird sh*t artytime:


----------



## Haggis

Kutusov said:


> Haggis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bottom line is can you still get porn?
> 
> 
> 
> You can but everybody will know what sort of porn you like, So get ready to acknowledge that yes, you do like weird sh*t artytime:
Click to expand...

I will stick with windows 7, thx for the movies you kindly sent me. Can you send me an English version as the plot looked interesting?

Do all women in your village have such hairy legs?


----------



## BondandBigM

Haggis said:


> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haggis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bottom line is can you still get porn?
> 
> 
> 
> You can but everybody will know what sort of porn you like, So get ready to acknowledge that yes, you do like weird sh*t artytime:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you send me an English version as the plot looked interesting?
Click to expand...

Getting an 'O' Level in French eventually paid off, can watch them without the subtitles on

:laugh: :laugh:


----------



## Kutusov

Haggis said:


> Do all women in your village have such hairy legs?


Oh, I insist on it! "Gitanes for Gillettes Program" I call it :thumbsup:



BondandBigM said:


> Getting an 'O' Level in French eventually paid off, can watch them without the subtitles on
> 
> :laugh: :laugh:


Yeh, but do you know German? You know that the real weird stuff is always German...


----------



## BondandBigM

Kutusov said:


> Haggis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haggis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haggis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do all women in your village have such hairy legs?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I insist on it! "Gitanes for Gillettes Program" I call it :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting an 'O' Level in French eventually paid off, can watch them without the subtitles on
> 
> :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeh, but do you know German? You know that the real weird stuff is always German...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do all women in your village have such hairy legs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I insist on it! "Gitanes for Gillettes Program" I call it :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting an 'O' Level in French eventually paid off, can watch them without the subtitles on
> 
> :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeh, but do you know German? You know that the real weird stuff is always German...
Click to expand...

Alles klar Herr Komissar

:biggrin:

That's about the limit of my German but it's only the French & Italian vintage stuff I'm interested in so not an issue

:laugh: :laugh:


----------



## Kutusov

Oh, I also know "Raus", "Achtung" and "Mein Lieben", they use that a lot in WW2 films :biggrin:


----------



## BondandBigM

Kutusov said:


> Oh, I also know "Raus", "Achtung" and "Mein Lieben", they use that a lot in WW2 films :biggrin:












I remember watching this a lot when we were younger and there were no PC bizzy bodies about

:biggrin:


----------



## Stan

A cumulative update was issued by MS today( :thumbsup: ), at least the Windows "start sound" is back. 

I suspect MS will get Win10 up to speed in about six months, that's when I plan to update my main Windows 7 desktop. Windows 10 seems quite solid, but the "apps" need some work. At least on the two machines I've installed it on, thus far. :wink:


----------



## William_Wilson

BondandBigM said:


> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haggis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haggis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haggis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do all women in your village have such hairy legs?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I insist on it! "Gitanes for Gillettes Program" I call it :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting an 'O' Level in French eventually paid off, can watch them without the subtitles on
> 
> :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeh, but do you know German? You know that the real weird stuff is always German...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do all women in your village have such hairy legs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I insist on it! "Gitanes for Gillettes Program" I call it :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting an 'O' Level in French eventually paid off, can watch them without the subtitles on
> 
> :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeh, but do you know German? You know that the real weird stuff is always German...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Alles klar Herr Komissar
> 
> :biggrin:
> 
> That's about the limit of my German but it's only the French & Italian vintage stuff I'm interested in so not an issue
> 
> :laugh: :laugh:
Click to expand...











:biggrin:

Later,
William


----------



## rhaythorne

Just a quick update following my earlier post about the disastrous upgrade to Windows 10 on my Dell Venue 8 Pro tablet. Not 100% convinced I found what went wrong but it might be worth noting for anyone else trying a similar upgrade.

On my first attempt, I performed the upgrade without the bluetooth keyboard or mouse connected. As I mentioned, Continuum, the feature which is supposed to switch Windows 10 between tablet and desktop modes automatically, appeared to get horribly confused about what sort of device it was running on and it made the tablet completely unusable.

After a factory reset to Windows 8.1 and the chore of re-installing all the Windows 8.1 updates I ran the Windows 10 upgrade again. This time I made sure that the bluetooth mouse and keyboard stayed connected throughout the upgrade process. Hey presto, all's working perfectly


----------



## Kutusov

Well, my forage into Linux was also a bit surreal... boot from DVD and had to go to the door, when I came back I had a Linux desktop. Bit scared that it had installed without the dual boot because I didn't make any step for a HD partition. Everything more or less intuitive until I was wanted to do anything. Apparently couldn't update it. Hard to connect to wifi, hard to install Chrome to know what I was doing. Everything terribly slow. Last drop was when I wasn't able to change the keyboard layout to Portuguese and was getting all the wrong stuff while pressing the keys.

Gave up and restarted the thing, ready for the nasty news that had no dual boot. More surprised to see it going directly to Windows and no trace of Linux on the HD. Took me a while to figure out that Linux can run in virtual machine mode so you can try it out and have a look without installing it. hat's thy it was so slow, it was running from the DVD on top Windows. Also why I couldn't install anything, it was just a virtual image artytime:


----------



## William_Wilson

I had a look at Lexmark's site to see about my CS410dn colour laser and W10. The procedure was to turn the printer on and let the magic happen, and it did! Seems to work as it should. :thumbsup:

Later,
William


----------



## trackrat

Kutusov said:


> Well, my forage into Linux was also a bit surreal... boot from DVD and had to go to the door, when I came back I had a Linux desktop. Bit scared that it had installed without the dual boot because I didn't make any step for a HD partition. Everything more or less intuitive until I was wanted to do anything. Apparently couldn't update it. Hard to connect to wifi, hard to install Chrome to know what I was doing. Everything terribly slow. Last drop was when I wasn't able to change the keyboard layout to Portuguese and was getting all the wrong stuff while pressing the keys.
> 
> Gave up and restarted the thing, ready for the nasty news that had no dual boot. More surprised to see it going directly to Windows and no trace of Linux on the HD. Took me a while to figure out that Linux can run in virtual machine mode so you can try it out and have a look without installing it. hat's thy it was so slow, it was running from the DVD on top Windows. Also why I couldn't install anything, it was just a virtual image artytime:


The Linux DVD/CD live disks do not boot on top of Windows, you have to change the boot order in the BIOS, to make the DVD/CD drive first boot.

The live image will then run from the disk.

What version of Linux did you use, was it 32 or 64bit.


----------



## Kutusov

trackrat said:


> The Linux DVD/CD live disks do not boot on top of Windows, you have to change the boot order in the BIOS, to make the DVD/CD drive first boot.
> 
> The live image will then run from the disk.
> 
> What version of Linux did you use, was it 32 or 64bit.


Yes, DVD is the first boot... I thought it was running through Windows but if it was just the DVD was bad enough. Sloooooooow....

And it's an LXLE 64 bits, so Lubuntu based I think.


----------



## scottswatches

Just installed W10 in 30 minutes. Nothing bad or good to report so far...


----------



## William_Wilson

Well, the cumulative update seems to have buggered the NVidia HDMI sound driver, but a driver reinstall has straightened it out.

Later,
William


----------



## mattbeef

Well i upgraded my work VM and its fine so far, but i did upgrade from 8.1 which i didnt thing was as bad as people made out.

Nice to see a few more mac style features in there that people "wanted" but so far it works for me


----------



## William_Wilson

The thing I am noticing most right now is the lack of options when I right click. Things like pulling up properties or doing searches.

Later,
William


----------



## ESL

Should you install or not... This may be one reason why not!

Forced update fail!


----------



## luckywatch




----------



## Haggis

luckywatch said:


>


FROM A MOLE IN MICROSOFT?


----------



## mel

I bited the bullet and went for it - - so far (just a few hours in - - it seems to be working and faster than 8, and a tad bit better for what I want. It's even running back issues of my HTML editor, link superchecker, Open Office and the likes - - which I'm not sure if it should do -- I suspect because they were already installed and running with a lot of local tweaks to get them there over the last year. :yes:

And let's start a battle about what an App is versus a Program? :bash:


----------



## Big Dave

I just updated my laptop to Windows 10 and guess what?, the only App i use for listening to itunes via my iphone called "Remote" stopped working. Typical. Laptop is now back on 8.1.


----------



## William_Wilson

mel said:


> I bited the bullet and went for it - - so far (just a few hours in - - it seems to be working and faster than 8, and a tad bit better for what I want. It's even running back issues of my HTML editor, link superchecker, Open Office and the likes - - which I'm not sure if it should do -- I suspect because they were already installed and running with a lot of local tweaks to get them there over the last year. :yes:
> 
> And let's start a battle about what an App is versus a Program? :bash:


Apps are for people that are far too important and busy to spell the word "application", or perhaps too stupid to spell it. :wink:

My initial install of 10 was an upgrade of 7. It carried all of the installed programs over and they worked for the most part. I had a problem with audio codecs providing proper Dolby surround and FUBARed the entire OS trying to sort it out. I did a reinstall of 10 without the 7 being upgraded and installed Office 2010, Capture One 8.3 and various other programs and they all work with 10.

Soooo... you will likely be ok installing your older software.

Later,
William


----------



## Kutusov

Windows is trying to imitate IOS so it's going to pusg their own stuff. I remember the days WMP wouldn't let you play MP3 files, later you could buy the codec.

The good thing about PCs and Windows was that you could use whatever you wanted, one way or another. If they are going to be another Apple, it's their death setence, they are late in the game and don't know how to make new stuff that actualy works :biggrin:


----------



## William_Wilson

Kutusov said:


> Windows is trying to imitate IOS so it's going to pusg their own stuff. I remember the days WMP wouldn't let you play MP3 files, later you could buy the codec.
> 
> The good thing about PCs and Windows was that you could use whatever you wanted, one way or another. If they are going to be another Apple, it's their death setence, they are late in the game and don't know how to make new stuff that actualy works :biggrin:


I think over the next two or three years MS will get a loud message from business users running multiple machines that W10 is a big steaming pile of crap and that they need a new OS that has not had the functionality compromised.

Later,
William


----------



## mattbeef

Business users dont care as long as they can lock it down and their software runs on it.

New MS Office will be soon and it will tie in more with Win10 i would imagine. Add on that Exchange 2013 is the latest version with Server 2012 Windows wont be going any where from a business point of view.

Home users as always will vote with their wallet


----------



## William_Wilson

mattbeef said:


> Business users dont care as long as they can lock it down and their software runs on it.
> 
> New MS Office will be soon and it will tie in more with Win10 i would imagine. Add on that Exchange 2013 is the latest version with Server 2012 Windows wont be going any where from a business point of view.
> 
> Home users as always will vote with their wallet


When I was doing installs in law offices there was one prevalent problem. From the most unimportant secretary to the most important lawyer, none of them could take 60 seconds to figure out if the BS email they were looking at was real. Now imagine turning these people loose on machines that are desperate to integrate everything into offsite storage and email. Users who change something and can't remember what they did and then go on a rampage changing everything, combined with MS's new desire to probe everyone's system and there are going to be issues. Every office has a genius that figures out how to circumvent security without realising the impact and Windows 10 is the nosiest thing out there. I'm sure it will be a boon for IT people. :wink:

Later,
William


----------



## mattbeef

It still happens William but dare i say that the secretary is normally more savvy than the MD.

I get the integration part but you can block all of it out in a corporate network with firewalls and group policy. I suppose the good to come out of this is that people may read the T's&C's before clicking agree


----------



## Kutusov

mattbeef said:


> . I suppose the good to come out of this is that people may read the T's&C's before clicking agree


Do you read that stuff?? I've always wondered if there was a single soul on the whole planet that did that!


----------



## William_Wilson

mattbeef said:


> It still happens William but dare i say that the secretary is normally more savvy than the MD.
> 
> I get the integration part but you can block all of it out in a corporate network with firewalls and group policy. I suppose the good to come out of this is that people may read the T's&C's before clicking agree


Where the risk lies is with offices that don't have a full time IT person. I know of offices with over 100 machines that contract out the IT on an as needed basis. It will be a worry for places with truly confidential files.

Later,
William


----------



## mel

William said:- It will be a worry for places with truly confidential files.

Like the posh "Contact a F*ck Buddy Today?" as has just been caught out with a hack and confidential info release of their 32M members ? :yes:


----------



## William_Wilson

mel said:


> William said:- It will be a worry for places with truly confidential files.
> 
> Like the posh "Contact a F*ck Buddy Today?" as has just been caught out with a hack and confidential info release of their 32M members ? :yes:


No, I was thinking of the law offices that will be defending the clients of that website during the mass divorce proceedings that are about to occur. :wink:

Later,
William


----------



## mattbeef

Kutusov said:


> mattbeef said:
> 
> 
> 
> . I suppose the good to come out of this is that people may read the T's&C's before clicking agree
> 
> 
> 
> Do you read that stuff?? I've always wondered if there was a single soul on the whole planet that did that!
Click to expand...

Heck no i dont read it, there is always an army of geek websites that do.

I used to work for Apple and now i work for a MS and Apple partner so i have read their T's and C's which are a lot scarier. Like William mentioned the dangers, i work a company that does IT on a as and when basis amongst other things


----------



## Haggis

Kutusov said:


> mattbeef said:
> 
> 
> 
> . I suppose the good to come out of this is that people may read the T's&C's before clicking agree
> 
> 
> 
> Do you read that stuff?? I've always wondered if there was a single soul on the whole planet that did that!
Click to expand...

Apparently it is quicker on windows 10. Not for me, but I am a sick bas****d


----------



## Kutusov

Well, can't install LXLE on a dual boot thing and my Windows 7 was initially in Swedish and has been throwing error messages in that language to me (apparently changing the language doesn't change it on everything). So as I last resort, I'll give this one a go. If I don't like it, a clean install of a decent Window 7 in English will have to be done.

I've read it doesn't need an ultra powerful PC, so...


----------



## William_Wilson

I lost USB mass storage device operation this morning. Talk about a pain in the crotch. :angry: Normal things wouldn't fix it, I had to use a recovery point. It is still pretty fussy and major updates are as likely to create problems as they are to fix them.

Later,
William


----------



## DJH584

> I lost USB mass storage device operation this morning. Talk about a pain in the crotch. :angry: Normal things wouldn't fix it, I had to use a recovery point. It is still pretty fussy and major updates are as likely to create problems as they are to fix them.
> 
> Later,
> William


I've not tried any USB device of any form on my system. I'll have a look at that in the morning and let you know how I get on.

David


----------



## Kutusov

Had to bring this topic back, those Microsoft people have to be retarded...

So I got a new machine as some of you know - and some of you think it's a bread making machine @KrispyDK. It's a fresh Windows and it was doing it's updates yesterday. Plugged my printer in and I think I saw something popping up about having failed to install Samsung's driver properly. Fine, I have poor wifi connection at the moment anyway. So I downloaded the drive and was going to install it manually. One of those firewall, security thingies popped up saying it was an unknown whatever, if I wanted to go ahead anyway. I was really tiered and clicked on "No", so now every god damn Samsung piece of software is blocked and labeled as untrusted!! I went through the forums, there's no way that I found to remove Samsung from the security blacklist!!

My hat off to Microsoft... they are great at developing unimaginable PITA little things. I would never think of such a thing if I was deliberately trying to come up with something really nasty on an OS.

Oh, and no need to try to figure this one out if you don't have the problem - you probably should because someday you might run into this. Like I said, it's a fresh machine and I don't have anything on it yet. I'm going with a recovery and won't bother with it but talk about major screw up!!


----------



## Krispy

Ok, in my defense....


----------



## Kutusov

See? Mine is a lot smaller and more cute. Also, it only has one button. :biggrin:


----------



## Krispy

It also seems the bread maker is more useful!!


----------



## Kutusov

KrispyDK said:


> It also seems the bread maker is more useful!!


 Don't be silly... have you ever seen a bread maker that let's you browse porn?


----------



## Krispy

I've never asked one for permission!


----------



## Kutusov

artytime:


----------



## mach 0.0013137

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Maybe not, his reply to my email included this comment - "I've been looking at windows 10, give me a few more days, but it looks worthwhile from what I've seen so far."
> 
> He`s never let me down so far, so if he say it`s ok I`ll trust him :biggrin:


 I did update to W10 but soon regreted it as I encountered a number of odd problems including the fact that I could no longer rename files & I couldn`t scroll down them as every time I tried it went straight back to the top. The only thing I could do was connect to the internet but after a few weeks I couldn`t even do that. I`m currently using the old laptop with Windows 7.


----------



## Kutusov

mach 0.0013137 said:


> I did update to W10 but soon regreted it as I encountered a number of odd problems including the fact that I could no longer rename files & I couldn`t scroll down them as every time I tried it went straight back to the top. The only thing I could do was connect to the internet but after a few weeks I couldn`t even do that. I`m currently using the old laptop with Windows 7.


 Sounds something went wrong with the software... when you say you can't rename files, does it mean that when you click the name to change nothing happens or does Windows actively stop you from doing that? I'm asking because the scrolling issue might be tied together with that if it's a mouse problem (either hardware or controller).


----------



## Stan

Windows 10 at the moment is a Release Client, it isn't a Gold RTM. :wink:

We'll see the RMT sometime next year, after we have all done the testing that MS should have done before it was first released.


----------



## KevG

Morning

I've been running W10 Pro since July with no problems to speak of, when I first upgraded W8 I was running dual boot with W7 Home. Only upgraded because I didn't like W8 and mostly used W7.

I left W7 on as dual boot on a separate HD this was never upgraded, and I've now found I rarely use it at all. So I have an old XP box that I use as a spare in my workshop upstairs, rarely gets used except for the odd reference stuff. Decision to update to W7 and add the 500g H/D at the same time, fitted the HD with W7 already loaded and of course it objected to the new set up, MB etc is all 6 yrs old or older and completley different to the box it came from. Anyhow after some messing i decided to just reinstall completely. So I thought may as well go to W10 as I'd had all the notifications for it on 7. Couldn't connect to the net W7 couldn't find the wifi dongle, I had the ISO for w10 so I ran that as upgrade worked fine until I got to the request for the SN wouldn't accept it and rebooted itself, tried again as a custom went in ok but wouldn't activate, this is using the SN from W7 that hadn't been upgraded so was legible for the freebie. Gave up for a while as it was nothing urgent. Went to the MS site and read a bit and realized I needed the 1511 ISO. Downloaded that and ran it on the old box as a custom, wouldn't accept the SN during install but once it was up and running went to settings to activate changed product key to my W7 number and I now have a fully activated W10 Home prmium box in the workshop. Would have been a lot easier if I'd read up first though. W10 home has picked up all the hardware on the old box with no trouble even though stuff like the old Sounblaster card must be 10 years old now.

Kev


----------



## badgersdad

My W10 was very slow, but I've changed the size of the virtual memory partition as suggested in some forums (fora?) and it has made a really significant difference. Recommend it. I still prefer Linux Mint, and if it would work more smoothly with other things I'd have it back in a flash.


----------



## vinn

3 happy months of windows 7 ! just this morning -- the windows 10 ad to join, blocked my access to GOOGLE - with THAT ad to UPGRADE!. only a man like TRUMP could take -down an ars like bill gates and MICROSOFT. merry christmass to ALL (except bill gates)


----------



## martinzx

I personally like win 10, and so do our engineers, it is not perfect. But I do not think it deserves such a bad press .

Cheers Martin 

PS. I also like ebay.

When I worked in Australia, they often called Brits winging poms, maybe they were reading this forum...lol. :thumbsup:


----------



## hughlle

I've been running windows 10 since last christmas and have never looked back


----------



## Kutusov

This is my 3rd win10 experience and it's quite different from the other 2, so I reckon that's why there are opinions that are so different..

The first one was an upgrade from Win7 (which was an upgrade from XP), fully updated and as stable as it could be. It was a machine I built myself, so every board and device was well identified. Windows 10 kept all the settings and improved a little bit the stability of the machine (especially the wifi connection that was always a problem since win7). No issues at all.

The second one was my father's all in one HP that he decided to buy and that came with windows 8. He couldn't work with it and someone from the store upgraded it to win 8.1. I just monitored the upgrade to 10 and seems like everything works fine, at least he hasn't called me with any problem. It has all the HP software though.

Thrid one, also an HP that I bought last week. Came with 8.1 and I decided I wanted windows10 and non of the HP software. I ran into several problems there and still am. Win10 isn't stable and sometimes I get a 20 second hand time or problems shutting it down. I was able to determine is driver related and it's something I need to find out more about. Intel components aren't identified or updated by Intel's tool, it just says it detects Intel based components that have been tweaked by a manufacturer. So I had to install HP's updater again but it now shows my machine as a different one. Windows updater and HP updater don't seem to be playing mice with each other but that's sort of fault. And I know that there are at least 2 drivers that are giving me problems and need updating: graphics board and a printer. Windows always fails to install them, there's always some error. I have a hard time believing HP actually went to the trouble of tweaking hardware specs and performance but they at least made it hard to run a machine without their bloatware.

Anyway, and from what I remember from early stages of any other windows, 10 is by far more stable and mature upon release. There might be a very good reason for it, if what I've read is true: windows10 is essentially built from XP and that was a fully mature OS. I still miss win98SE though. To me that was the best one yet, even with all the BSoD it always had :laugh:


----------



## William_Wilson

KevG said:


> Morning
> 
> I've been running W10 Pro since July with no problems to speak of, when I first upgraded W8 I was running dual boot with W7 Home. Only upgraded because I didn't like W8 and mostly used W7.
> 
> I left W7 on as dual boot on a separate HD this was never upgraded, and I've now found I rarely use it at all. So I have an old XP box that I use as a spare in my workshop upstairs, rarely gets used except for the odd reference stuff. Decision to update to W7 and add the 500g H/D at the same time, fitted the HD with W7 already loaded and of course it objected to the new set up, MB etc is all 6 yrs old or older and completley different to the box it came from. Anyhow after some messing i decided to just reinstall completely. So I thought may as well go to W10 as I'd had all the notifications for it on 7. Couldn't connect to the net W7 couldn't find the wifi dongle, I had the ISO for w10 so I ran that as upgrade worked fine until I got to the request for the SN wouldn't accept it and rebooted itself, tried again as a custom went in ok but wouldn't activate, this is using the SN from W7 that hadn't been upgraded so was legible for the freebie. Gave up for a while as it was nothing urgent. Went to the MS site and read a bit and realized I needed the 1511 ISO. Downloaded that and ran it on the old box as a custom, wouldn't accept the SN during install but once it was up and running went to settings to activate changed product key to my W7 number and I now have a fully activated W10 Home prmium box in the workshop. Would have been a lot easier if I'd read up first though. W10 home has picked up all the hardware on the old box with no trouble even though stuff like the old Sounblaster card must be 10 years old now.
> 
> Kev


 I've skimmed this, so just to be certain, build 1151 will activate with a Windows 7 Product key? If that is the case, it's about time. Yippee!!!

Later,
William


----------



## KevG

William_Wilson said:


> I've skimmed this, so just to be certain, build 1151 will activate with a Windows 7 Product key? If that is the case, it's about time. Yippee!!!
> 
> Later,
> William


 Hi William

Yep you can now do a clean install from the ISO without upgrading first so long as you've not upgraded that particular S/N before. Don't know why it wouldn't accept the S/N during install, but once it was up and running with the trial number it was a simple job to change product ID to the Win7 number and full activation was done, and as you say about time


----------



## RTM Boy

Just got a cheapo spare laptop with W10. It won't boot up - I get the BSoD saying it won't start correctly and it won't repair, but no specific error message. Being W10 I've little idea what to do (I've no boot discs), let alone what's wrong with it. Got it from a mate and he doesn't know either. Any ideas?

I'm not tech savvy, sadly.


----------



## SBryantgb

Go here

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10

Download the appropriate Win 10 onto another PC to create the bootable USB stick or CD/DVD

Then either do a repair or re install using the licence that came with the laptop.


----------



## KevG

SBryantgb said:


> Go here
> 
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10
> 
> Download the appropriate Win 10 onto another PC to create the bootable USB stick or CD/DVD
> 
> Then either do a repair or re install using the licence that came with the laptop.


 Beat me to it, just what I was going to put when I saw the post

Kev


----------



## SBryantgb

keep in mind MS just released version 11082 to the fast track, so that will be available pretty soon.


----------



## RTM Boy

Thanks, hadn't thought of trying that.


----------



## KevG

SBryantgb said:


> keep in mind MS just released version 11082 to the fast track, so that will be available pretty soon.


 Not had mine yet but I'm not on fast track just insider, would think in the next week. 1151 should be available for a while yet, with the advantage of the updates if the old lappy has the original upgrade only on it.


----------



## Kutusov

Just in case that fails and you need a nuclear option (I keep mine close by). Download a hacked Windows 7. Boot from CD and wipe everything clean with it. Install win7 with the "valid" licence. Upgrade to 10 and you're done.


----------



## xellos99

The biggest upgrade to a shop computer people can do is throw it in the bin and build your own.


----------



## RTM Boy

xellos99 said:


> The biggest upgrade to a shop computer people can do is throw it in the bin and build your own.


 Ha, ha, I'm thinking you're right.

Despite trying to reboot from a flash drive, I ended up spending 4.5 hours with an M/S engineer online trying to sort out my (other) laptop. The version of W10 on it had crashed spectacularly. After it cleaned up took another 5 hours to reinstall with the latest v of W10 and all the lost software and reboot several times. Seems to be working fine now, but what a complete pain. What was it that Sheldon Cooper said about Bill Gates not focussing on the job? :laugh:


----------



## xellos99

RTM Boy said:


> Ha, ha, I'm thinking you're right.
> 
> Despite trying to reboot from a flash drive, I ended up spending 4.5 hours with an M/S engineer online trying to sort out my (other) laptop. The version of W10 on it had crashed spectacularly. After it cleaned up took another 5 hours to reinstall with the latest v of W10 and all the lost software and reboot several times. Seems to be working fine now, but what a complete pain. What was it that Sheldon Cooper said about Bill Gates not focussing on the job? :laugh:


 There is a free alternative to Microsoft called Ubuntu BUT I tried it and couldn't get used to it tho. Some say its better than windows but im not sure


----------



## hughlle

xellos99 said:


> There is a free alternative to Microsoft called Ubuntu BUT I tried it and couldn't get used to it tho. Some say its better than windows but im not sure


 Or simply linux. A flavour for every palate


----------



## mattbeef

RTM Boy said:


> Ha, ha, I'm thinking you're right.
> 
> Despite trying to reboot from a flash drive, I ended up spending 4.5 hours with an M/S engineer online trying to sort out my (other) laptop. The version of W10 on it had crashed spectacularly. After it cleaned up took another 5 hours to reinstall with the latest v of W10 and all the lost software and reboot several times. Seems to be working fine now, but what a complete pain. What was it that Sheldon Cooper said about Bill Gates not focussing on the job? :laugh:


 Surely it would be quicker to wipe your machine and then restore from a backup?


----------



## William_Wilson

mattbeef said:


> Surely it would be quicker to wipe your machine and then restore from a backup?


 That's just precious! :wink:

Later,
William


----------



## RTM Boy

William_Wilson said:


> That's just precious! :wink:
> 
> Later,
> William





mattbeef said:


> Surely it would be quicker to wipe your machine and then restore from a backup?


 Yes, if my backup had not failed also...due a W10 problem...obviously full of bugs... :angry: :wacko: :yes: :laugh:


----------



## Kutusov

RTM Boy said:


> Yes, if my backup had not failed also...due a W10 problem...obviously full of bugs... :angry: :wacko: :yes: :laugh:


 Cheer up!! My brand new machine seems to be holding up after the 4th back to factory settings recovery!! You'll get it working fine in three weeks or so :laugh:

(obviously, I hope you get it sorted much quicker)


----------



## William_Wilson

When I replaced my SSDs recently, I managed to transfer the complete system with the Win10 ISO I made. The newer builds seem to have managed that finally.

Later,
William


----------



## RTM Boy

Kutusov said:


> Cheer up!! My brand new machine seems to be holding up after the 4th back to factory settings recovery!! You'll get it working fine in three weeks or so :laugh:
> 
> (obviously, I hope you get it sorted much quicker)


 There quite a long drop from my 'window' onto the patio below and I'm thinking of conducting an experiment into the energy absorbing properties of a laptop with W10 installed when launched vertically through an open 'window'. My theory is that W10 will cause fewer problems at the end of the experiment. Then I'll start a crowdfunding exercise to fund repeat experiments launching through 'windows' at 'windows' developers and then test if the message is getting through. :laugh:


----------



## DJH584

hughlle said:


> Or simply linux. A flavour for every palate


 Over the years, I have experimented with various types of open source software including Ubuntu, Kbuntu et alia purely because there are times when I get thoroughly ****** off with M$. However, I have always found that you need to be able to go in hands on with some drivers and mount some hardware.
The reason for this is that hardware manufacturers always need to kowtow to M$ with their software and M$'s conditions.
Subsequently open source software takes second place unless some very enterprising person has bought the latest hardware and written the source code for it, tested it and released it to the open source world.

To get back to Win10. Yes I have it installed on my PC as the free upgrade from Win7. I find that it is a tad slower than Win7 and also annoying that I had to have an outlook account - fortunately I have that anyway - but for others this could be an annoyance.

I also received this email the other day:

"Dear user, In a few weeks, we will be making some changes to our email services that might impact your @﻿outlook﻿.com, @﻿hotmail, @﻿live or @msn email account.
These changes will prevent your email from being delivered to the Windows Live Mail 2012 application that you use.
In order to continue using Windows Live Mail 2012 to send and receive email for your account, you need to install the latest update published here.
If you use Windows Live Mail 2012 on Windows 8, Windows 8.1 or Windows 10, we recommend that you switch to the built-in Mail app in Windows to stay connected and get the latest feature updates on Windows 8, Windows 8.1 and Windows 10.
Windows Live Essentials 2009 and 2011 are not supported any more, and you will need to update to Windows 8/8.1 or Windows 10 and use the Mail app, or use www.outlook.com. To learn more about the Mail app, please click here. We also recommend all Windows Live Mail users on Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 to upgrade to Windows 10 and use the built-in Mail application to stay connected and get the latest feature updates. We suggest saving this email so you can refer to it later.
Thank you for your understanding and continued use.
Yours sincerely,
The Outlook team"

So I tried the Outlook app - it's there in the menu - and it is a total waste of space. I want to see ALL of the emails in my Inbox and other folders, NOT the first ten that this app provides. I'll stick with the live mail for as long as I can use it and probably search around for another piece of software that gives the same facilities as live mail does now.

My regards

David


----------



## Kutusov

RTM Boy said:


> There quite a long drop from my 'window' onto the patio below and I'm thinking of conducting an experiment into the energy absorbing properties of a laptop with W10 installed when launched vertically through an open 'window'. My theory is that W10 will cause fewer problems at the end of the experiment. Then I'll start a crowdfunding exercise to fund repeat experiments launching through 'windows' at 'windows' developers and then test if the message is getting through. :laugh:


 ...why haven't I thought of that?...

Well, I already posted this today elsewhere but I conducted a similar experiment on an external HD I was having trouble recovering the data from...



Maybe I can get something from kickstarter as I got a few new ideas about drills and axes...



DJH584 said:


> So I tried the Outlook app - it's there in the menu - and it is a total waste of space. I want to see ALL of the emails in my Inbox and other folders, NOT the first ten that this app provides. I'll stick with the live mail for as long as I can use it and probably search around for another piece of software that gives the same facilities as live mail does now.
> 
> My regards
> 
> David


 I'm probably missing the point but... Thunderbird all the way!! Never touched Outlook but there were a few times I used Outlook Express.. you know, I was young, away from home, drunk and feeling lonely...


----------



## DJH584

Umm Thunderbird. I recall reading about that application some years ago. I'll give that a look and thanks for the tip.

David


----------



## William_Wilson

DJH584 said:


> Umm Thunderbird. I recall reading about that application some years ago. I'll give that a look and thanks for the tip.
> 
> David


 Windows Live Mail is the last thing I recall being available for local email storage and management. As I recall, the downside to Live is it likes to categorise in a similar fashion to Google.

Later,
William


----------



## Kutusov

If you ever used Outlook Express, Thunderbird is just like it (now with better looks and some extra bells and whistles. It's a POP3 email manager, so you get to keep all your emails and order them the way you want them or look for something. I'm so used to this format I can hardly handle emails any other way. I most certainly don't get gmail. I have no clue as to how or why they show you emails like that.


----------



## William_Wilson

I've used various versions of the Office Outlook for many years now. Now that MS is doing its damnedest to get people to use the online Office 365 I don't know if the proper version of office even has Outlook now.

Later,
William


----------



## Krispy

The Outlook Web App is what you get with Office 365. Or Office 363 as it's known in IT departments around the world as it's normally unavailable at least 2 days a year.


----------



## Kutusov

As it seems the usual these days, I have no clue what you guys are talking about. I'm waiting to install Office last but the version I have here is a funny *wink*wink* Office 2016. Is that not the latest one? What's Office 365? Some online, cloudbased POS? 99% of the times I don't need anything from Office other than Word so if it's going to take over anything I'm perfectly happy with free alternatives like OpenOffice.


----------



## Stan

William_Wilson said:


> I've used various versions of the Office Outlook for many years now. Now that MS is doing its damnedest to get people to use the online Office 365 I don't know if the proper version of office even has Outlook now.
> 
> Later,
> William


 I don't like my files stored on a "cloud" rather than my own physical drives. I can do back- ups. 

The wise will take advantage of what MS offers without becoming part of the product.

It may become more difficult to remain an individual in future, however I started out by playing simple "whack a mole " games many years ago.


----------



## Krispy

Kutusov said:


> As it seems the usual these days, I have no clue what you guys are talking about. I'm waiting to install Office last but the version I have here is a funny *wink*wink* Office 2016. Is that not the latest one? What's Office 365? Some online, cloudbased POS? 99% of the times I don't need anything from Office other than Word so if it's going to take over anything I'm perfectly happy with free alternatives like OpenOffice.


 In that case, why not use Google Apps, specifically Google Drive and Google Docs. You'll never have a backup / restore / disk failure problem again and it works across all devices very well indeed. I migrated our company to it a few years ago - now our parent company want to move us to Office 365 but have yet to match Googles performance on reliability, value or ease of use / administration.


----------



## William_Wilson

Krispy said:


> The Outlook Web App is what you get with Office 365. Or Office 363 as it's known in IT departments around the world as it's normally unavailable at least 2 days a year.


 It is the "proper" resident Office (2016) I'm wondering about.



Krispy said:


> In that case, why not sue google apps, specifically Google Drive and Google Docs. You'll never have a backup / restore / disk failure problem again and it works across all devices very well indeed. I migrated our company to it a few years ago - now our parent company want to move us to Office 365 but have yet to match Googles performance on reliability, value or ease of use / administration.


 It's like choosing between a bunch of ##### and a bunch of *****. :laugh:

Later,
William


----------



## Kutusov

Krispy said:


> In that case, why not sue google apps, specifically Google Drive and Google Docs.


 Because they have a lot more money for lawyers than me?... :laugh: I think you meant use... well, I don't know what those apps are either and I certainly don't want the google drive stuff. I have it and used it before but I'm getting old and it feels creepy. I want my stuff on my physical computer. The first thing I did on this one was turn Onedrive off.


----------



## Stan

Kutusov said:


> Because they have a lot more money for lawyers than me?... :laugh: I think you meant use... well, I don't know what those apps are either and I certainly don't want the google drive stuff. I have it and used it before but I'm getting old and it feels creepy. I want my stuff on my physical computer. The first thing I did on this one was turn Onedrive off.


 Well said.


----------



## William_Wilson

I'm dead set against online storage for three reasons. First - The thing that couldn't possibly happen somehow happens and everything goes down in flames. Second - The applicable government has full access to your files, as well as the company providing the storage. Third - Hackers!!!

Later,
William


----------



## Stan

William_Wilson said:


> I'm dead set against online storage for three reasons. First - The thing that couldn't possibly happen somehow happens and everything goes down in flames. Second - The applicable government has full access to your files, as well as the company providing the storage. Third - Hackers!!!
> 
> Later,
> William


 You have summarised my feelings on the subject.

"My 'phone has my life on it".

Good luck with that, sucker. :wink:


----------



## Krispy

William_Wilson said:


> It's like choosing between a bunch of ##### and a bunch of *****. :laugh:
> 
> Later,
> William


 :laugh:

At first, I agreed with you entirely. But after destroying a few phones and hardrives in my time, there's something reassuring about knowing your files can never be lost and are available again in an instant.



Kutusov said:


> Because they have a lot more money for lawyers than me?... :laugh: I think you meant use... well, I don't know what those apps are either and I certainly don't want the google drive stuff. I have it and used it before but I'm getting old and it feels creepy. I want my stuff on my physical computer. The first thing I did on this one was turn Onedrive off.


 I did mean use, thank you for correcting my English you old Portu-geezer!

Google Drive is exceptionally easy (but unnecessary) to back up locally if you feel you need to. It's just a different way of thinking / working. Some adapt, some don't.

Isn't an insistence on holding onto outdated ways of working (storing stuff locally) what caused your last few days of kerfuffle with failing hardware?

'Everything fails, all the time'; 'If it's not saved in at least 2 locations it's not saved at all' and all that jazz.



William_Wilson said:


> I'm dead set against online storage for three reasons. First - The thing that couldn't possibly happen somehow happens and everything goes down in flames. Second - The applicable government has full access to your files, as well as the company providing the storage. Third - Hackers!!!
> 
> Later,
> William


 Agree on all fronts and can only go on experience. The only online storage / app platform I would wholeheartedly recommend is Google after around 4 years commercial and personal use with it. It's fully available online and offline (locally) from any device. I conceded long ago that practically anywhere you store your files, the Government (and hackers) has full access to them if they want them. Unless you print them all out and stick them under your mattress. Even then...


----------



## Kutusov

There's one more thing than we can argue about for ages about how I don't have it over anything but it's control. I want to know where, how and what I have and don't have. I want to be able to pull out a list of something I wrote down even if the internet is down. I don't want to go to the computer the next day and find out they've changed the layout and now I don't know where anything is.

Take this forum and the way we have to post pictures. I have them on PB but I was uploading something today and it said it failed because I was over 100 albums. Who told him to put stuff into albums?? I want everything in the same "folder"! Now I'll have to learn how that is set up, how to revert it and hope there is a way to do it in one go and not album by album.

I call this the Apple way and it royally p***es me off. I don't want stuff like you think it's best! I want to use it my way! I might eventually "see the light" and figure out that that is actually better but until then I do want to keep my stuff organized the way I organize things.


----------



## William_Wilson

Krispy said:


> :laugh:
> 
> At first, I agreed with you entirely. But after destroying a few phones and hardrives in my time, there's something reassuring about knowing your files can never be lost and are available again in an instant.
> 
> I did mean use, thank you for correcting my English you old Portu-geezer!
> 
> Google Drive is exceptionally easy (but unnecessary) to back up locally if you feel you need to. It's just a different way of thinking / working. Some adapt, some don't.
> 
> Isn't an insistence on holding onto outdated ways of working (storing stuff locally) what caused your last few days of kerfuffle with failing hardware?
> 
> 'Everything fails, all the time'; 'If it's not saved in at least 2 locations it's not saved at all' and all that jazz.
> 
> Agree on all fronts and can only go on experience. The only online storage / app platform I would wholeheartedly recommend is Google after around 4 years commercial and personal use with it. It's fully available online and offline (locally) from any device. I conceded long ago that practically anywhere you store your files, the Government (and hackers) has full access to them if they want them. Unless you print them all out and stick them under your mattress. Even then...


 I have quite a bit of excess storage (SSDs, HDDs, USB sticks and SD cards). Also I have half of the important stuff already on my own website. Fire is the only real concern.

As for the final word in protecting files from the government... Thermite! :laugh:

Later,
William


----------



## Kutusov

Krispy said:


> Isn't an insistence on holding onto outdated ways of working (storing stuff locally) what caused your last few days of kerfuffle with failing hardware?
> 
> '


 Yep, and it was my fault, I can blame only myself. I knew the HD was failing but I kept postponing and now I pay the price. I swallow that much better than what happen with megashare or whatever it was. I don't about international law or whatever it is... I had backups in there on a paid account of a corporation based in Taiwan. I wake up and everything is gone because of the... FBI?? The guys that are a local, federal police force over at the US or whatever? What about my money?

Will laughed because he knew better than me what megashare also was and I maybe I would laugh now too. But I'm really not in the mood to keep up with these things anymore and learn about everything that comes out every day. Google drive might be great but I need to figure that out first. No clouds for me, young man!!!



Anyway, I still don't know what Office 360 is... is that an online app thingy? And Office 2016 the proper, in your drive, old fashion office?


----------



## Krispy

Kutusov said:


> There's one more thing than we can argue about for ages about how I don't have it over anything but it's control. I want to know where, how and what I have and don't have. I want to be able to pull out a list of something I wrote down even if the internet is down. I don't want to go to the computer the next day and find out they've changed the layout and now I don't know where anything is.
> 
> Take this forum and the way we have to post pictures. I have them on PB but I was uploading something today and it said it failed because I was over 100 albums. Who told him to put stuff into albums?? I want everything in the same "folder"! Now I'll have to learn how that is set up, how to revert it and hope there is a way to do it in one go and not album by album.
> 
> I call this the Apple way and it royally p***es me off. I don't want stuff like you think it's best! I want to use it my way! I might eventually "see the light" and figure out that that is actually better but until then I do want to keep my stuff organized the way I organize things.


 Who's arguing?!



Must admit, the 'tweaks' to user interfaces can become very annoying. The whole offline / online / internet down thing is solved though.



William_Wilson said:


> I have quite a bit of excess storage (SSDs, HDDs, USB sticks and SD cards). Also I have half of the important stuff already on my own website. Fire is the only real concern.
> 
> As for the final word in protecting files from the government... Thermite! :laugh:
> 
> Later,
> William


 My company runs the digital platform for a very large retail property owner. One of their sites refused for years to allow us to host their sites and services (which we built) and insisted on hosting them on premise. Then they had a flood which got into their server room. Digital marketing platform down for over a week. They migrated to us (Amazon's AWS, another exceptional service) within a month of that happening and haven't had an outage since.

I keep reading 'Government', 'Thermite' and 'destroying records' in the same paragraphs. I've spent too long on the internet.


----------



## Kutusov

Oh, and one more rant... it's almost 2AM. Mediamonkey is still copying the musics from my IPod to my computer using the most complicated set up I went through lately. All because you buy a hard drive (that's what an Ipod is) from Apple and then they don't let you download the stuff you have in it into your new PC because it's not the one you originally upload the music from?? Which BTW are mostly physical CDs that I bought and ripped into digital format and never ever bought anything from their store? Well, f*** you Apple and the way you do things. I'll use hacked and braked into software with people like these any day and feel good about it.


----------



## Muddy D

Kutusov said:


> Oh, and one more rant... it's almost 2AM. Mediamonkey is still copying the musics from my IPod to my computer using the most complicated set up I went through lately. All because you buy a hard drive (that's what an Ipod is) from Apple and then they don't let you download the stuff you have in it into your new PC because it's not the one you originally upload the music from?? Which BTW are mostly physical CDs that I bought and ripped into digital format and never ever bought anything from their store? Well, f*** you Apple and the way you do things. I'll use hacked and braked into software with people like these any day and feel good about it.


 My tip is, never trust Apple with YOUR music. I have I tunes though the only music I allow on there is stuff I've bought via I tunes (which isn't much) and nothing else.


----------



## Kutusov

Muddy D said:


> My tip is, never trust Apple with YOUR music. I have I tunes though the only music I allow on there is stuff I've bought via I tunes (which isn't much) and nothing else.


 Oh, I don't. I didn't even knew that after you put music in this POS you can't get it out from another computer (you can with my good ol' friend Mediamonkey but Apple didn't want that and made it hard). The only reason why I bought an Ipod was to have it on the car plugged to the stereo. At that time, it looked like everybody had given up and an Ipod was by far the biggest drive one could get for not much more than a 1/3 of the capacity of (I want to say) a Creative mp3 player.


----------



## William_Wilson

Kutusov said:


> Oh, I don't. I didn't even knew that after you put music in this POS you can't get it out from another computer (you can with my good ol' friend Mediamonkey but Apple didn't want that and made it hard). The only reason why I bought an Ipod was to have it on the car plugged to the stereo. At that time, it looked like everybody had given up and an Ipod was by far the biggest drive one could get for not much more than a 1/3 of the capacity of (I want to say) a Creative mp3 player.


 Have you tried iPorn? It's similar to regular porn but very smug and pretentious.

Later,
William


----------



## Kutusov

William_Wilson said:


> Have you tried iPorn? It's similar to regular porn but very smug and pretentious.
> 
> Later,
> William


 :laugh: And I bet that will only let me *** in a certain way and sign a terms agreement every time I want to use my hand that way artytime:


----------



## KevG

Been on W10 for quite a while now as an insider and 2x upgrades and had no problems. Both my machines are homebuilt and getting on a bit now.Oldest will be 8-9 years old running a P5 dual core at about 3000 has 2 GG Ram and an AGP Video card runs w10 home just fine. Newer box about 5=6 years old quad core AMD 4000 4GG Ram and a PCI video card running W10 pro without a hitch. Both are running a slightly grey Office 2003 with no problems don't trust M$ cloud like others I prefer to keep my data local. I do use One drive for junk stuff, odd bits of info I might want, appliance instructions etc seems to work ok haven't tried the Google jobbie yet. I have noticed that most folks that are having problems seem to be on Laptops,tablets etc rather than PC's. I do question whether it could be the pre loaded programmes causing trouble rather than W10 itself. I don't mean the usual garbage add ons but the main driver, config and such. Personally I've found this upgrade the best since we went from DOS to Win3.1 and then W95 IMHO.

Kev


----------



## Kutusov

Well Kev, i think you are right, it's conflicting manufacturers' software, Intel's hardware (most of us use it) and Microsoft. My own built machine had absolutely no problem running win10 straight from the get go. But it took about 4 back to factory settings recoveries (back to windows 8.1) to get my new one stable and working and it's half my fault.

This new one is an HP and seems to use an odd assortment of laptop hardware to keep it running at low power and low noise but also at good specs. It comes with an HP assistant thingy which is essentially a console for hardware and software updates and some other stuff. It was by pure chance that I notice it was hanging after a recovery and that I noticed both windows updater and HP updater were both running and ended up conflicting with each other.

Took me a while to figure out I can't use this PC as the ones I used to build. The hardware is from Intel but it's somehow tweaked or internally identified with HP's codes, so hardware and drivers updates have to be done using HP's utility. If I launch updates from there, I end up with no problems. If I remove everything HP and just go by the specs in device manager or some diagnosis tool, I end up with problems. I had problems even by manually updating hardware drivers from HP's website like I was advised to do on their forum (not HP personnel).

It feels unnatural to run your machine like this but it's actually easier. I don't know what will happen when HP moves on to newer machines and stops caring about older ones but I think at that point drivers will know about and include these variations (whatever they are, couldn't find out from them).

At this point, I don't find it a good nor a bad thing, it is what it is. It's faster and easier to have HP assistant support something in charge - sort of, I still have it set to ask me if it can do what it wants to do just so I know how it works - but feels strange and unnatural to the way we used to manage a PC.

I also think we are back to the times where AMD is more stable out trouble free than Intel. Not sure if it's like in the old days of one core processors where AMD performed better and were more stable, with less mobo chipset problems or just because these big manufacturers tend to use a lot more Intel stuff and so they tweak those more.

Seems to me you better decide what kind of user you are and act accordingly. Someone who has a "regular", up to €1000 major manufacturer's prebuilt PC, in which case you keep it simple and let the software it comes with do its thing. Or a €1000+ gaming rig that might come prebuilt but it's not meant for ease of use but performance and customisability. You'll have (and have to have) a very well identifiable mobo, processor and its version, graphic card from whom and on which version and keep on top of that. Win10 works and has to work on those machines at it's the only windows that runs the latest DirectX 12.


----------



## KevG

Where the fault lies is now the thing I think, is it the manufactures or are M$ no giving the info out in time. I tend to blame both I can see M$ coming out with there own hardware before long same as Apple, and if you don't have it W will not run simple. I'm messing with Linux again on a jury rigged set up (no case yet) single core AMD with 1GG mainly for this reason. I like building my own have done since the early 90's. Also not happy with W10 phone home, at this point it's only giving info on performance so we are led to believe (though the ads seem more pointed) but it won't take any doing to spy totally. I'm not happy with the cloud for sensitive stuff. Bottom line is I hate being told what to do and Linux doesn't appear to do that. As of now I couldn't use it full time. This time round I'm giving it a better shot. Last time it was way to much fiddling building the whole thing up and mounting stuff from raw. Shouldn't worry about M$ Office my venerable 2003 cracked version works fine I only run Outlook, Word and Excel as that's all I need but it's running with no problems.( NB that this is on a full PC not a lappy or such like)

Kev


----------



## William_Wilson

As bad as Microsoft is, there is still the classic problem with Linux of not really having a common purpose. You can take all of the people working on a project collectively and line them up end to end and they still somehow manage to all point in different directions. A programmer can singlehandedly create a great application with user feedback, but when the programmer loses interest, and they always do, the application languishes and becomes outdated.

Later,
William


----------



## KevG

I agree with you William the Lubuntu I have on the old banger feels more like a Beta at the moment, though it did install easily enough which is a blessing after my previous attempt with Linux. It does work and has picked up everything on the old mobo, though it is just the mobo no cards at all. I haven't been on line with it as I've no spare wifi dongles and as there's no case I can't really move it around. I think I'll persevere with it for the reasons I gave earlier and who knows it may just be the way to go a few years down the line. For now though it will be a 3rd line system for me a toy to mess with.

Kev


----------



## Kutusov

Well, this all seems to be the case of a yet young windows version and a version that is quite different from the others (or tries to be). New windows versions were always troublesome, I remember installing XP when it came out and nothing worked after that. I held on to windows 98 for as long as I could and IIRC, there used to be this maxim of waiting a year until moving to whatever the new Windows was.

We can't do that with this new one unless we want to pay for it, the free upgrade is only until the end of this month, isn't it? And with all the problems we have been stating, it is still quite a stable version for what we are used to see coming out of Microsoft. Probably because it's not all that new, I think I've read on several places that win10 is an XP with different looks and features.

Oh, and Office 2016 is working just fine :thumbsup: and it does come with Outlook (I don't use it but I think William was asking about that).

Major storm over Porto right now, so shutting this thing down, big surges on the power line.


----------



## vinn

excuse me for repeating, a H.P. lap top and new issue of win, 7 --- is O.K. -- vinn


----------



## KevG

I'll be staying with W10so long as they don't start upgrading to hardware only available from M$ and the spying stays as it is, definetley the easiest upgrade I've done but it seems mainly on PC not a lappy. I think the free upgrade runs till June but you'll get nagged to death to do it if you aren't running the GWX control panel, which apparently M$ are trying to bypass. Nothing wrong with W7 I think it's got support to 2022 before you need to think about changing.

Kev


----------



## William_Wilson

I'm posting this in this thread because it is an active computer related thread...






:biggrin:

Later,
William


----------



## KevG

brilliant


----------



## vinn

win 7 support will not expire


----------



## KevG

vinn said:


> win 7 support will not expire


 2020 for home M$ will no longer support W7 couple of years after it'll run down for business same as XP


----------



## Kutusov

vinn said:


> win 7 support will not expire


 4 years to go... http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle


----------



## vinn

place your bets ----- vinn


----------



## Kutusov

Something you know and aren't telling us?? :laugh: I'm too late for that now, I finally got Win10 to work but was perfectly happy with win7 - save for the wifi protocol stuff, always had a ton of problems with that. They seem to be also present in this win10 stuff but it's less of a problem. It just disconnects but doesn't even know it did. I know that the first thing I had to do in win7 was dicsonnect a lot of network protocols or it wouldn't even connect but I haven't look all that hard into what the problem might be with this one. I've only seen a reset IP walkthough but that doesn't do anything nor was I expecting it to do.


----------



## artistmike

Kutusov said:


> We can't do that with this new one unless we want to pay for it, the free upgrade is only until the end of this month, isn't it?


 Windows 10 upgrade is available free until 29 July 2016 ...


----------



## Boxbrownie

Must admit I was bit worried about upgrading but having done so on both desktop and laptop they have both been working great, without any drama whatsoever.......are we sure this can be a real MS upgrade? :laugh:


----------



## William_Wilson

Boxbrownie said:


> Must admit I was bit worried about upgrading but having done so on both desktop and laptop they have both been working great, without any drama whatsoever.......are we sure this can be a real MS upgrade? :laugh:


 The current release seems to be far more stable than the original public release. It has been ages since I've had to do a video/sound/USB diver install or restore! :laugh:

Later,
William


----------



## Kutusov

Well, mine is now also stable and all the problems I had were only with this computer and my stubbornness and no experience with the manufacturer's software that has parts stuck in its BIOS or something... you mentioned it before Will, UEFI or something that sounds like that?


----------



## William_Wilson

Kutusov said:


> Well, mine is now also stable and all the problems I had were only with this computer and my stubbornness and no experience with the manufacturer's software that has parts stuck in its BIOS or something... you mentioned it before Will, UEFI or something that sounds like that?


 Unified Extensible Firmware Interface - UEFI, takes the place of old fashioned BIOS. Two practical points about it, it allows some high level mucking about from within Windows and it retains manufacturer Windows product keys which can make upgrades a pain in the testicles.

Later,
William


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## badgersdad

My old laptop really struggled with w10, partly because I think the cpu was on the fritz. When it eventually have up the ghost, I bought a new £400 Toshiba laptop intending to install linux mint, but w10 is working so beautifully that I haven't bothered. I've personalised it quite heavily, getting rid of those stupid tiles and installing some better music management (the wonderful music bee) and I actually think it's a decent os. Controversial I know.


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## Kutusov

William_Wilson said:


> Unified Extensible Firmware Interface - UEFI, takes the place of old fashioned BIOS. Two practical points about it, it allows some high level mucking about from within Windows and it retains manufacturer Windows product keys which can make upgrades a pain in the testicles.
> 
> Later,
> William


 Yeh, that. Have some reading to do about it then. I though it was a strange BIOS layout, with several layers to it and almost BIOS inside BIOS. Took me an awful lot of time just to figure out and set the priority of boot devices.

But what you said points a bit to my impression that one can't do much "by hand" like a few years back, its pretty much a let it do its thing. Bit weird as it goes against my old nature but I think I'm fine with it also... can't really be bothered to be honest. And I still blame Android for it. It just do its thing and it just works.

And I'm now going to open a new thread as I figured out I need decent speakers and have also no clue to what even look for. I'm so outdated it ought to hurt... :alcoholic:



badgersdad said:


> My old laptop really struggled with w10, partly because I think the cpu was on the fritz. When it eventually have up the ghost, I bought a new £400 Toshiba laptop intending to install linux mint, but w10 is working so beautifully that I haven't bothered. I've personalised it quite heavily, getting rid of those stupid tiles and installing some better music management (the wonderful music bee) and I actually think it's a decent os. Controversial I know.


 I got rid of a lot of tiles but haven't figured out how to compact the space left :laugh: I mean, could be a handy quick launch thing but as I left it, there's huge amounts of empty space and I have to scroll up and down which makes it useless.


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## DJH584

Kutusov said:


> I got rid of a lot of tiles but haven't figured out how to compact the space left :laugh: I mean, could be a handy quick launch thing but as I left it, there's huge amounts of empty space and I have to scroll up and down which makes it useless


 You and me likewise. I only have two tiles left - the calendar and the weather forecast. I have not figured out a way to be able to put other icons on there so it can be used as a quick launch fro a program. As you say that would be a great facility.

David

Just tried something. You CAN click and drag a program to the empty space!!!! Just done it with Irfanview. Brilliant!!!!


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## hughlle

DJH584 said:


> You and me likewise. I only have two tiles left - the calendar and the weather forecast. I have not figured out a way to be able to put other icons on there so it can be used as a quick launch fro a program. As you say that would be a great facility.
> 
> David


 I must be misinterpreting your post, because that is the entire point of the start menu with the tiles.

Just right click on any program icon or folder you want and select pin to start. You can the drag around, resize the tiles, create groups, and resize the start menu to your liking.


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## Kutusov

DJH584 said:


> You and me likewise. I only have two tiles left - the calendar and the weather forecast. I have not figured out a way to be able to put other icons on there so it can be used as a quick launch fro a program. As you say that would be a great facility.
> 
> David


 Oh, adding stuff is easy! You right click on the app (gods, I still hate the term) and choose "Pin it to Start". And BTW, I was being lazy... you can arrange the tiles. Just had the brilliancy of thinking about clicking on a tile and trying to drag it... yep, that's how it works... :blind:



hughlle said:


> I must be misinterpreting your post, because that is the entire point of the start menu with the tiles.
> 
> Just right click on any program icon or folder you want and select pin to start. You can the drag around, resize the tiles, create groups, and resize the start menu to your liking.


 Damn it... see why I'm getting lazy? If I had waited two minutes more... :laugh:


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## DJH584

Hughlle

You don't even have to right click. Left click and drag does the job equally as well. This is a feature I was not aware of and I think it is absolutely brilliant.

And we are falling over each other with our replies :laugh: :laugh:


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## William_Wilson

Tiles suck! This is the way:










Later,
William


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## hughlle

My computers are all touch screen, tiles work just great for me thanks.


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## Kutusov

William_Wilson said:


> Tiles suck! This is the way:
> 
> 
> 
> Later,
> William


 That's in Cinemax?... :laugh:


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## DJH584

Rotundus said:


> bring back windows 95 i say - the only truly stable platform i have worked on since my unix days ...


 Nah. NT4 - the best business version of M$ I have ever had the pleasure to use.


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## William_Wilson

Kutusov said:


> That's in Cinemax?... :laugh:


 When I do a screen grab, it combines my 60 inch horizontal monitor and my 20 inch vertical monitor! :biggrin:

Later,
William



hughlle said:


> My computers are all touch screen, tiles work just great for me thanks.


 The desktop icons seem to do that job for me. :wink:

Later,
William


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## hughlle

William_Wilson said:


> When I do a screen grab, it combines my 60 inch horizontal monitor and my 20 inch vertical monitor! :biggrin:
> 
> Later,
> William
> 
> The desktop icons seem to do that job for me. :wink:
> 
> Later,
> William


 No such thing as desktop items in tablet mode alas.


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## William_Wilson

hughlle said:


> No such thing as desktop items in tablet mode alas.


 I don't have a tablet... I'm old fashioned.

*10 REM Metaphor for futility
20 GOTO 10*

Later,
William


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## Kutusov

DJH584 said:


> Nah. NT4 - the best business version of M$ I have ever had the pleasure to use.


 You're both wrong, you know that, don't you? This is the best system ever... just take a look at that code!!


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## William_Wilson

Kutusov said:


> You're both wrong, you know that, don't you? This is the best system ever... just take a look at that code!!


 I think there is a stack sum error.

Later,
William


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## Kutusov

artytime: artytime:


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## dobra

Here is another point of view...

https://blog.ashampoo.com/en/2016-01-15/windows-10-upgrade-free-is-too-expensive?utm_source=ashampoo&utm_medium=automail&utm_content=windows-10-upgrade-free-is-too-expensive&utm_campaign=blog

Mike


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## Kutusov

I don't get the "too expensive" point... because you might have to upgrade hardware if you are running old one? I was running win10 on my former PC which I built maybe 8 years ago with mid to high-end parts and they were all supported... sometimes you might not find a 64 bits driver but anything that runs on XP 32, runs on 10 from my experience.

As it is, and IMO, I think I like 10 better than 7 just because it feels lighter. But then again, win10 hasn't had all the updates and patches and service packs win7 has and that's not a fair comparison.

Mind that I would probably be running XP if they hadn't stopped supporting it. I din't have win7 for long, so I'm also not that attached to it.


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