# British And Irish Lions



## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

A thread for the two Union fans









Here's my post 6 Nations pick for the Lions starting 15

1 - Gethin Jenkins (Wales)

2 - Shane Byrne (Ireland)

3 - Julian White (England)

4 - Danny Grewcock (England)

5 - Mal O'Kelly (Ireland)

6 - Jason White (Scotland) (politically there will have to be one Scot in the pack)

7 - Martyn Williams (Wales)

8 - Lawrence Dallaglio (Wasps) - this is a sure bet IMO

9 - Dwayne Peel (Wales)

10 - Jonny Wilkinson (England) - if fit

11 - Jason Robinson (England)

12 - Gordon D'Arcy - (Ireland) ahead of Gavin Henson I cant help but think that "silver boots" will see his arse in NZ

13 - Tom Shanklin (Wales) - Put him ahead of Brian O'Driscoll based on 6 Nations form; I think BOD will probably get the nod though, after all what does an ex- Tight Head know about the backs









14 - Josh Lewsey (England)

15 - Chris Patterson (Scotland) Another political selection









The Lions are going to miss Jonno though


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## Nalu (Nov 28, 2003)

Present!









Have to trust your judgement as I've seen no matches this year.







, but too England-heavy IMO.



JoT said:


> 6 - Jason White (Scotland) (politically there will have to be one Scot in the pack)
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JoT said:


> The Lions are going to miss Jonno though
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Against Chris Jack? The Lions could use 3 locks









And if Wilko cannot make it? Stephen Jones? Ronan O'Gara?

Is Ben Cohen not going to be fit in time? He is the most impressive large winger I've seen since Jonah. Caleb Ralph and Shane Horgan have nothing to offer in comparison.

I've read good things about Adam Jones at tight.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

I just hope the English get their kicking sorted out. The match against France was very painful to watch. Wilkinson is badly needed!


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Julian White. White is the best scrummager in the British Isles in my opinion. Adam Jones played quite well in the 6 Nations, but my worry about him is that he is not an 80 minute player, he seems to run out of gas.

Julian White may not be fit for the Lions he has a "stinger" injury affecting his neck/shoulder, he is still being evaluated, fingers crossed.

I couldn't pick between O'Gara and Jones; based on 6 Nations form Jones would get my vote but taking a longer view then O'Gara. A tough choice I think.

Ben Cohen broke his cheekbone in the Tsunami match .... I am not sure how he is getting on ... I agree with your views, but still think that Woodward will go for Robinson and Lewsey (I would like to see Lewsey at full-back instead of Patterson).

Here's a wild card - Will Greenwood ... played 80 minutes for 'Quins 2nd team ... his first full game since being injured.

Ben Cohen should be over his broken cheekbone in time, but he hasnt played that well this year, I still think he will be on the tour but will start on the bench.

Griff your comments on the kicker are spot on - if England had kicked their goals in teh 6 Nations then they would have beaten both France and Wales and might have beaten Ireland. Everybody would have been lauding Andy Robinson ... in a way it has done England a favour not having Wilkinson ... it has identified serious shortcomings in other areas that could have otehrwise been masked.


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## Nalu (Nov 28, 2003)

Shortcomings not news if you listen to the antipodean wags!









O'Gara for Lions experience.

I just saw today that Greenwood is back, same comment as above. The real question is: what color will his hair be?


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

why doesn't woodward just send the Welsh squad!


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## Nalu (Nov 28, 2003)

pg tips said:


> why doesn't woodward just send the Welsh squad!
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Sir Clive has a very difficult selection facing him. With England being the reigning World Champs but off form and injured, Wales winning 6N but untested, and Ireland showing flashes of brilliance, I do not envy him. No matter what he does, he will be scattered, smothered and covered if the Lions fail.


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## julian (Jun 3, 2003)

Nalu said:


> pg tips said:
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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

julian said:


> NO player who is not currently fully match fit and has not played test rugby this season should be considered.
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With a tour party of 44 places I think there is enough room for England's Jonny Wilkinson and Richard Hill.

It will be interesting to see what the final selction is when Sir Clive announces the squad at lunchtime.



julian said:


> I read that Julian White is described as a "destroyer of scrums" .This is of course illegal within the law framework of RU .
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Props NEVER do anything illegal in the scrums


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

The Lions Squad

Brian O'Driscoll (Captain), Neil Back, Iain Balshaw, Gordon Bulloch, Shane Byrne, Gareth Cooper, Martin Corry, Chris Cusiter, Lawrence Dallaglio, Matt Dawson, Will Greenwood, Danny Grewcock, John Hayes, Gavin Henson, Denis Hickie, Richard Hill, Charlie Hodgson, Shane Horgan, Gethin Jenkins, Stephen Jones, Ben Kay, Josh Lewsey, Lewis Moody, Geordan Murphy, Donnacha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell, Ronan O'Gara, Malcolm O'Kelly, Michael Owen, Dwayne Peel, Jason Robinson, Graham Rowntree, Tom Shanklin, Andy Sheridan, Ollie Smith, Matt Stevens, Simon Taylor, Gareth Thomas, Steve Thompson, Andy Titterrell, Julian White, Martyn Williams, Shane Williams

No Wilkinson, Tindall or Vickery but Woodward has left the door open for them if they prove themselves fit.


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## Nalu (Nov 28, 2003)

Three Irish wingers!














And they're not exactly utility backs, are they? Are there truly no faster people in all the Isles? I'll back Ireland every time, but this seems a bit optimistic (vice - presumably - Dougie Howlett, Joe Rokocoko, Caleb Ralph and possibly Ma'a Nonu).

Maybe Clive just needs them for the mid-week matches
















I feel bad for Peter Stringer, I like the wee lad









Another casualty: John Kirwan. Is 3 years enough to turn Italy around? I think they should have stuck with him at least through RWC07. Italy are looking at Ian McGeechan - not exactly full of latin flair - as the next coach of the Azzuri.


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## Nalu (Nov 28, 2003)

JoT,

You can get your "In BOD We Trust" t-shirt here: BOD shirt

Don't worry, I won't tell anyone!









BTW, they also have Wilko: Handle With Care shirts


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## julian (Jun 3, 2003)

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Props NEVER do anything illegal in the scrums











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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

As a number 3 myself I am speaking from experience; we never did anything wrong, the referees just misinterpreted what we were doing









The trouble is modern referees have lost the specialist knowledge of the front row because all refreees look for now is angles of engagement and fet and arm positions. They should be looking more at the intent and not continually penalise the team that wants to inflict the legal pain. Modern refs, and Southern Hemisphere refs especially find it easier to give penalise the defending side in the mistaken belief that it is the defending side is the one that MUST be disrupting the scrum. Take it from me that any attacking tight-head worth his salt can get a penalty almost on demand.

I agree to part of what you are saying about Julian White; his neck/stinger injury is very worrying, he had a reasonable 1st game back against Leeds Tykes but then went on to get a another stinger in training later in the week. Something isn't right, but as he is included in the squad I assume the medicos are happy.

I disagree with your assesment that he contributes little else in the game; a fully fit White is not just an awesome scrummager but also a real presence in the loose. You can't go down to NZ with lightweight props history has shown that it all starts up front, you can't attack of the back foot.


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## Nalu (Nov 28, 2003)

JoT said:


> As a number 3 myself I am speaking from experience; we never did anything wrong, the referees just misinterpreted what we were doing
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All refs are ex-back line players (at best, 8man) - how could they understand front row play?









Seriously, this is a concern of mine since I intend to take a referees course. I'll have to take a fellowship from my mates who are front rowers!









Keith Woods did well for years for the Lions, Ireland and the 'Quins with severe neck problems. I think Julian White will come up all right.

The whole front row selection is a strategy in and of itself. NZ have shown a tendency in recent years to go with a more athletic front row with better ball skills (Somerville, McDonnell, Feek, Hayman, Mealamu). So do the Lions go with weight and power, trying to win the scrums and hopefully the breakdowns (for as long as the big guys can run)? Or do they try to match the AB athleticism? Since Graham Henry has yet to pick his side, it remains to be seen which way he'll go.

I've always been impressed by Thompson's ball skills around the ruck, glad to see him in the crowd. He is as underated as Neil Back is overrated, IMHO.

Assuming Tana is the captain again, I cannot wait to see the battle at the midfield. The two best centers in the game captaining their sides - it's already a classic!


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Jason Leonard had a cervical fusion in 1992 and was only out of the game for 3 months









You will never understand the front row Colin







unless it is something really obvious like a headbutt or a punch just share the penalties out evenly. Also never give a penalty for a front row infringment that could decide a match because the odds are 3 to 1 that the attacking side engineered the penalty







not that I ever did such things


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