# Seiko 7A38-7280 Looking Sorry For Itself.



## Jellyjack (Nov 21, 2010)

Hi folks I am another newbie.

Saw your forum and thought I would pick your brains if I may?

I own my Seiko 7A38-7380 since it was new several years ok. I love it to bits and it has served me well. It just feels right and I miss it if I wear anything else so I wear it every day. Recently I noticed the face is discolouring. Not been in water and I have an office job so not subjected to any chemicals.

How do I get it back to its original condition? Would Iso-Propyl Alcohol on a cotton bud be appropriate or would I remove the lacquer? Is it simple to remove it from the case to do this? Should I do this or should I send it to a professional to get it sorted and would it cost much?

Any assistance/advice or contacts would be greatly appreciated as although it is old I can't live without it.

Many thanks,

Mark

P.S. And it keeps perfect time and otherwise works perfectly although never serviced. S/No. 912972


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

Paul....? (Here he comes now. Just a moment. He's parking. Grabbing his briefcase and brolly. Coming the door, and greeting the receptionist....)

The man knows more about 7A38s than most of us will forget. Search on the forums for "7A38" and you'll probably find a thread talking about his restorations, keep you busy while he fixes his coffee.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

David Spalding said:


> Paul....? (Here he comes now. Just a moment. He's parking. Grabbing his briefcase and brolly. Coming the door, and greeting the receptionist....)
> 
> The man knows more about 7A38s than most of us will forget. Search on the forums for "7A38" and you'll probably find a thread talking about his restorations, keep you busy while he fixes his coffee.


A guy's got to sleep sometime, David. :sleep1:

I've been up half the night watching a sickly Yema Spationaute III fail to do it's stuff (again). :yawn:

Let me grab a cup of coffee or two, and I'll be right with you.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Jellyjack said:


> I own my Seiko 7A38-*7**3**80* since it was new several years ok. I love it to bits and it has served me well. It just feels right and I miss it if I wear anything else so I wear it every day. Recently I noticed the face is discolouring. Not been in water and I have an office job so not subjected to any chemicals.


In the meantime, Mark ....

You may want to read this thread in the same section: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=56948 (especially Post # 8).

Your watch is actually a 7A38-*7**2**80* (no such thing as as a -7380 .... highest they went up to is the -7295).

Discolouration of the sub-dials on these seems to be a relatively common problem - for whatever the reason. :lookaround:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Jellyjack said:


> Recently I noticed the face is discolouring. Not been in water and I have an office job so not subjected to any chemicals.
> 
> How do I get it back to its original condition?


O.K., Mark. So hopefully you've read that other thread. :read:

You say you love this watch to bits. :wub:

But tell me - honestly - have you ever fallen out of love with it ? 

Meaning, have you at any time left it neglected, and unworn, in a drawer for years on end ? :huh:

Because in my experience with 7A38's, the biggest culprit for causing a dial face to deteriorate ....

.... is battery acid fumes (or worst case the acid itself) leaking from an old flat run-down battery. :cray:

The other thing I have encountered (to my dismay) that softens or loosens dial face paint is ....

previous 'watch-botchers' having a go at a 7A38, and dunking the entire movement (with dial still in situ) in Horolode !

Cleans up the movement wonderfully, apparently, but being a solvent, also attacks the dial face paint; never dries again. 



Jellyjack said:


> How do I get it back to its original condition?


I doubt that you will. Personally, all I would attempt to try cleaning it with is a cotton bud dampened in mildly soapy water.

Certainly not worth considering any professional dial restoration - would cost more than finding another complete watch !

As you can see from that other thread, these watches, and this particular white-faced 7A38-7280/9 are relatively common.

I'd suggest keeping an eye open on eBay for a non-runner with a decent dial face; buy it, and swap the dials over.

The Stainless 7A38-7190 uses the same silvery-white 710L dial face as the 7A38-7280/9.


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

You could always describe it as "Patina" - Might actually increase the value of the watch...? 

Sorry, that's not helping, is it


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Davey P said:


> You could always describe it as "Patina" - Might actually increase the value of the watch...?


I remember seeing that, or something very much along those lines, in an eBay description of such a 7A38-7280. 

Probably one of those in that other '7A38-7280' thread I linked above, in post # 4. :read:

Mark - by the way, I'll ask a friendly mod to amend your thread title.


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

Rather hard to tell from the pic, but it appears to be something "on" the dial, rather than deformation of the paint underneath, eh? The black markers seem to be intact, no blurring or running. So perhaps Paul's suggestion might well fix this. (If you're not familiar with dismantling one, get help. Those pushers can be a PITA I suspect. I wouldn't trust myself with something soaked in liquid near that date window.)

I'm no expert in this, mind.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

David Spalding said:


> Rather hard to tell from the pic, but it appears to be something "on" the dial, rather than deformation of the paint underneath, eh? The black markers seem to be intact, no blurring or running. So perhaps Paul's suggestion might well fix this.


Fingers crossed for Mark, but somehow I doubt it. 



David Spalding said:


> (If you're not familiar with dismantling one, get help.


There's plenty of advice (and other useful links) in that other (Scott's) 7A38-7280 thread I linked earlier. :hammer:



David Spalding said:


> Those pushers can be a PITA I suspect.


For a 'first timer maybe'. But I've had plenty of practice now - done literally DOZENS of sets. It gets easier.









Average around 20 minutes (per set) to remove; strip; clean; reassemble with new O-ring seals; grease and replace.



David Spalding said:


> I wouldn't trust myself with something *soaked* in liquid near that date window.)


That's the very reason why I wrote 'dampened', David:



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Personally, all I would attempt to try cleaning it with is a cotton bud *dampened* in mildly soapy water.


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## Jellyjack (Nov 21, 2010)

Well gentlemen I am overwhelmed by the knowledge and free advice I have received.

Thank-you one and all, especially Paul and David - very kind.

To answer some of the questions I have had the watch probably the best part of 20 years. As I said I love it and I don't feel dressed without it!

I wear it day in day out and don't take it off to go to bed as I can find out the time if I wake up and also I heard somewhere that repeated altering the temperature of the watch from body heat to ambient wasn't go good for it - better to remain at a stable temperature with small variance. I do take it off to have a shower though!!!

Battery replaced as soon as it goes flat every second or third year I guess. Never been mothballed by me with flat battery.

Yes Paul you are absolutely right it is a 7A38-7280 as you can understand I am virtually blind so can't read easily the model on the back of the watch. Thanks if the moderator can correct my stupid typo. -Thanks

I must admit after reading some of these other threads I am a bit concerned about taking the watch out of the case to even attempt to clean the face with warm soapy water as I see the pushers have springs behind them. I confess I hadn't thought of replacing the face with another one - I may look on "Flea bay".

But the bottom line looks like I need to find someone who lives close to me that is prepared to take the movement out of the case and attempt to clean the face with warm soapy water or just live with it. - Anyone live near ST. Albans U.K.?

Thank you again for your sound advice.

Mark


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Jellyjack said:


> I must admit after reading some of these other threads I am a bit concerned about taking the watch out of the case to even attempt to clean the face with warm soapy water as I see the pushers have springs behind them.


Mark.

Under normal (resting) circumstances, the ends of pushers barely make contact with the actuators in the movement.

It is a relatively simple job to remove (and replace) the dial face and movement in a 7A38-7280.

Pull out the crown to the second click, and align the 3 main hands (to lessen the chance of bending one).

Remove the case-back (as you would do to change a battery) and pop the battery out.

With the crown stem still pulled out to the second click ....

Look for that little hole that is marked 'Push' with an arrow - the crown stem release lever.

And press down on it with a pin, which will enable you to withdraw the crown stem.

You can then turn the watch over, and carefully tap the crystal - and the movement and dial will 'plop' out.


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## Jellyjack (Nov 21, 2010)

Paul,

Thank-you once again for this invaluable advice. I will attempt to do exactly what you say and let you know how I get on. I may even post a photo if I can work out how to do it again.

What is the best way to unscrew the back of the watch? What tool is best to ensure I don't burr or scratch it up that I may have. Although I am an Engineer by trade I only have a fair selection of general tools but obviously no specialist tools? Long nose pliers with thin tips? Circlip pliers?

I will think on. Again many many thanks for your help.

Mark


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Jellyjack said:


> What is the best way to unscrew the back of the watch? What tool is best to ensure I don't burr or scratch it up that I may have.


Most people seem to use a Jaxa (copy) style screw watch-caseback removal tool.

Check this link: http://www.google.co.uk/products?hl=en&expIds=17259,18168,27690,27817&xhr=t&q=jaxa+watch+case+opener&cp=5&safe=off&wrapid=tljp1290634889984010&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=bobtTKf7CsXxsgb5_rGiDw&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQzAMwAA

You can sometimes pick up the Indian-made 'Anchor' brand ones on eBay for under a Fiver.









You need to make sure that it is properly adjusted and located properly in the lug recesses.

It is still possible to mark up the case-back with one of these tools, if it slips out.

I never have done so myself, yet. If I encounter any that are particularly tight (or stuck) ....

I give the case-back a squirt of RS Aerosol Freezer spray. Case-back contracts. Threads undo easier.

Nowadays, I tend to use one of those 'Sticky Ball' you can hardly call it case-back tool to replace them ....

Only just tightening up the last few degrees with the Jaxa copy tool.



Jellyjack said:


> Although I am an Engineer by trade I only have a fair selection of general tools but obviously no specialist tools?
> 
> Long nose pliers with thin tips? Circlip pliers?


Do not even think of going there, Mark







- unless you want to mark up your own case-back. :hammer: :butcher:


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## Jellyjack (Nov 21, 2010)

Paul,

Yet again thank-you for your advice. I feel duly reprimanded for suggesting a pair of pliers to remove the back!!!

I have ordered a Jaxa copy from Ebay - splashed out at Â£7.20!!! I wouldn't want to harm my lovely Seiko. Maynot be everyones cup of tea but I love it.

Hopefully that will mean that I don't scratch up the watch back. I will be careful - honest. So I guess I won't receive it for a couple of days but I will let you all know how I get on with the discoluration. Fingers crossed. Cheers for your patience with another ignorant newbie!!

Mark


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Jellyjack said:


> I will attempt to do exactly what you say and let you know how I get on.


As it says in all the best workshop manuals: 'Replacement is the Reversal of Removal'. :hammer:

But there is one thing I forgot to mention, Mark ....

When you come to put the movement back in, first ensure that the Tachymeter dial ring is correctly aligned.

This plastic dial ring spacer is sandwiched between the watch case and the bezel ....

So it doesn't come out with the dial face / movement assembly as you might have expected.

However, it is free to rotate between the bezel and watch case flanges, and may well do so !

The Tachymeter dial ring spacer has various pips and protusions moulded onto it's underside,

which are designed to match up with (some of) the various cut outs around the dial face plates.

To ensure it is aligned properly, line up '60' on the Tachymeter scale with the middle of the 12 o'clock baton.

If you want to see what I'm referring to, before you take your watch apart, check this other thread:

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=57525 - the relevant photos are included in posts #12 through #15.

The Tachy dial ring spacer is the same as in your watch - in fact it's a 7A38-728x that I'm modding. :butcher:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Ooops ! :blush: Duplicate Post.


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

Hi Jack,

I ended up selling my 7A38, as shown in the other thread after i had well and truly butchered it, at a huge profit. I am still looking for the combination of the right watch at the right price while i have the money in my account!

If your eyesight can't read the model number, best of luck with the screws! As you have had the watch for so long, and the sentimental value probably exceeds the actual value, i would spoil it to a service, clean and see if a professional can do a thoughly good job.

Mine was only a tenner from a car boot, so i didn't mind having a go myself. However, you see from my thread that i wasn't successful and was very happy to take Â£50 spares or repair!

I've just had delivery of a ball type watch opener and i'm really impressed so far - worth Â£2 of the bay anyday and won't ever mark a watchback no matter how aggressive i get!


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## Jellyjack (Nov 21, 2010)

Hi One and All,

Well due to the excellent advise and the confidence supplied by some of you, mainly Paul aka Seiko7A38Fan I finally took my watch apart and found to my horror that there appeared rust or muck around the pushers on the inside of the case -See photos below (apologies taken under artificial light). So I cleaned this up with a cotton bud with some Iso Propyl Alcohol. It appeared to do the trick and not leave ny residue.

I did try to remove the stains on the face with a cotton bud and damp water but this was not really successful. It made no real difference and after removing one small black marker I decided to stop. Generally it is a little better and I have at least tried to improve its looks.

One thing I did noticed was the gasket is deformed or crimped so i guess it needs replacing. I now think that in getting the battery changed by the local jeweller several times over the years they must have crimped it one time. I have never been into the watch myself until tonight. Whether this has let in water or dare I say perspiration I am not sure but maybe that explains the staining of the watch face. I notice the current battery is a Maxell type and been in for a while so maybe I will order a seal from Cousins and replace it. Anyone know the part no?

Also I may put up a wanted ad for a replacement face. I did see a spares watch on Flea Bay this week but it went for Â£41 so I lost out on it.

Finally thank-you all for you help especially the Seiko 7A38MasterFan - your help and perfect notes gave me the confidence I needed and enabled me to put the watch back together and hey it still works!!!

Great forum. Keep it up.

Cheers.










Mark


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## tixntox (Jul 17, 2009)

Wow! It looks well grungy in there! Years of perspiration and a smearing of the much talked about "wrist cheese"! Good luck with the spring (winter) cleaning. :thumbsup:

Mike


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Jellyjack said:


> One thing I did noticed was the gasket is deformed or crimped so i guess it needs replacing. I now think that in getting the battery changed by the local jeweller several times over the years they must have crimped it one time. I have never been into the watch myself until tonight. Whether this has let in water or dare I say perspiration I am not sure but maybe that explains the staining of the watch face. I notice the current battery is a Maxell type and been in for a while so maybe I will order a seal from Cousins and replace it. Anyone know the part no?


Mark.

There had to be a reason for this degradation of the dial face - either battery (acid fumes) leakage or moisture ingress.

Looks like the latter may have been the cause with your particular watch - especially from the rust around the pushers.

Rather than just cleaning up the area around them, these really need to come out and be cleaned properly ....

Possibly fitted with new pusher seals, and certainly lubricated with silicone grease, if nothing else.

The Seiko p/n for a case-back sealing gasket for a 7A38-7280 is *FH3181B01* - you can get them from Cousins UK.

But before you go ahead and order it, there are a few other bits you might want to order besides.











Jellyjack said:


> Also I may put up a wanted ad for a replacement face.


I *may* be able to help you out with one.

I'm currently in the process of swapping some parts around between a stainless 7A38-7190 and a similar 7A38-7280.

They both use the same silvery-white faced 710L dial.

The dial I'll have left over, as surplus has some very slight staining around the edge of the 3 o'clock subdial ....

So it's certainly not mint - but it's a lot better than yours.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Jellyjack said:


> Generally it is a little better and I have at least tried to improve its looks.


Looking at this photo, Mark (once you've got a replacement dial sorted) ....

You could probably improve the watch's looks by replacing that scratched crystal too.











SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> But before you go ahead and order it, there are a few other bits you might want to order besides.


While you're on Cousin's UK website, think about ordering yourself a Sternkreuz p/n MSM 310 crystal.

It's not the Seiko original part (p/n 310W62JN01), but a rather cheaper substitute that I use myself.

Or if you want an even cheaper replacement, Cousins own crystal p/n F150CMH310.

Now go read this helpful page about replacing crystals: http://www.crescent-pc.com/watchfetish/7aX8/index.htm

Another little tweak I've done myself, with this particular 7A38 (I have 'a couple' of them) ....

Is to replace the original black nylon Seiko crystal gasket with Sternkreuz p/n IG318310H (it's white nylon).

Though I'd only recommend using this with the Sternkreuz MSM310 crystal, because of tolerances involved.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Jellyjack said:


> I did see a spares watch on Flea Bay this week but it went for Â£41 so I lost out on it.


You mean this one, Mark: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230553856330










That watch was a stainless 7A38-7060.

Although it looks a similar colour and style, that has a 708L dial, whereas the 7A38-7280 uses a 710L dial.

It would have fitted - though strictly not 'correct' for your watch. :hammer:


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## Jellyjack (Nov 21, 2010)

Wow, lots more useful information again Paul.

Thank-you. I will take your advise and order the crystal, the seal and the gasket.

Yes that was indeed the 7A38-7060 I saw on FleaBay! and of course I didn't realise that it had a 708 dial rather than the 710 dial I have in my 7A38-7280 watch.

Please let me know if you do have a surplus white 710L dial albiet with slight staining as that would enable my watch to be restored to some kind of decent condition again especially if it has a new crystal and a watertight seal. Obviously I would be made-up and very grateful.

Not sure how I contact you except through this forum - you see still a "newbie" but learning I hope!

Thank-you again for your kind assistance.

Mark


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> In the meantime, Mark ....
> 
> You may want to read this thread in the same section: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=56948 (especially Post # 8).
> 
> ...


And you thought you had a problem with your 7A38-7280's dial, Mark ? :huh:

Check out eBay item # 280603096415 - it's another really bad example of this sub-dial staining. :shocking:










From the seller's listing description:



> *THE COLOUR HAS RAN ON THE DIALS SEE PHOTOS*


Slight understatement !


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## Jellyjack (Nov 21, 2010)

Hi Paul,

Mmmmm So it's not a two tone dial? Yes my dial discolouration is minor in comparison.

I think maybe the advert should read,

*"THE COLOUR HAS RAN, AND RAN AND RAN ON THE DIALS SEE PHOTOS." *maybe. Poor little Seiko 7280!

I take comfort that mine hasn't got to this stage yet!!









Cheers,

Mark


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Jellyjack said:


> Mmmmm So it's not a two tone dial?


Nope. :no: Seiko didn't produce a white 7A38 dial with gold-ish coloured sub-dials - not as far as I can remember. :umnik2:

But there still are one or two I haven't seen in the metal yet.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Seiko didn't produce a white 7A38 dial with gold-ish coloured sub-dials - not as far as I can remember. :umnik2:


Here's a photo from another past eBay auction - from back in February this year.

When I first saw this 7A38-7280, I thought it was a 'Franken', but if you look closely ....

You can see the 710L dial face part number, at the bottom, near 140 on the Tachy' scale:


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