# Helvetia



## Boots (Sep 22, 2018)

I recently acquired this Helvetia.

It was in a pretty grubby state (the first picture below is the before picture) but I spent a bit of time and elbow grease on cleaning up the exterior, and it looks quite nice now. The 20 micron plating seems in quite good order, despite some digs around the case. It seems to have very nice lines, especially with the lugs curving down to wrap around the wrist. The second picture tries to show this, the general shape of the case and the plating mark (it was taken part way through the clean up).

The caseback is a pressfit, without any sign of a groove or lip, so I am reluctant to try and remove it - hence no movement picture. The caseback is marked 3135.The crown looks like it was a replacement, as it seems slightly over-large and doesn't fit tight against the case.

Would any of the well informed people reading this be able to guess the age? I realise the lack of movement picture makes this very difficult.

All I can tell from studying it and reading on this forum and elsewhere is that the alternate batons and Arabic numerals at 2, 4, etc. seem to have been used on and off by Helvetia for quite a period. The "Swiss Made" does not have "T" marks, so presumably the lume is Radium, making it pre-1955. My guess is early 50s.

On a different question, the lugs are 17mm, what do people do about this strap size? Go with the limited selection of 17mm straps; use 16mm and put up with a 1mm gap; use 18mm and hope it will squish; or take an 18mm and pare off 0.5mm each side?

Thanks for the help!


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

Nice.

I always go with 17mm straps. I'm a little OCD about it, but it feels right to me


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## Boots (Sep 22, 2018)

A small bit more data.

Ranfft lists a very similar watch here -->

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2usau&1505314800

That one differs in three respects that I can see:

i) The hands are slightly different, with wider lume

ii) The batons have the lum on them, wheras mine has it on the dial next to the baton

iii) The font for the numerals is a bit more "space age-y"

Dr Ranfft gives the age of the one listed on his website as c. 1960. Frustratingly I can't make out from his image if the "T" marks are present or not.


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## Slim2500 (Jul 10, 2016)

I own a Helvetia from 1955 give or take a year either way it also has 17mm i think the strap is a Hirsch as it was the only one i could find in 17mm the movement in the watch is Cal 830


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## martinzx (Aug 29, 2010)

I like that @Boots can you post a picture of the caliber, it will a easier to date.

Cheers Martin :thumbsup:


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## Boots (Sep 22, 2018)

martinzx said:


> I like that @Boots can you post a picture of the caliber, it will a easier to date.
> 
> Cheers Martin :thumbsup:


 Sorry Martin, I'd love to, but so far I have failed to get the caseback off. It is a press fit, without any kind of groove or lip. I have tried, but no joy - it hasn't budged. I used Sellotape to try and protect the case, but I'm still worried about scratching the case.

It's going to need to be serviced, as it it losing quite a bit of time. @Simon2 is this a watch you would service?


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

are you sure it is a snap back? on a very tight seam, I use a "safety razor blade" and a "jewelers hammer" to start the opening. try not to leave any blood in the case. vin


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

@Boots Very nice find, I like it


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Your rather nice Helvetia, dear @Boots will date to the mid or later 1950s and represents a simple hand-wound general timekeeper from the period - simplicity not meaning to be a criticism. I have found that gold plate on many of the simpler watches from the period of your Helvetia has survived far better than one would expect modern gold coatings/plate applied to last on the cheaper watches these days.


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## Boots (Sep 22, 2018)

Dear @Always"watching" thanks for the confirmation of a date. No criticism taken, the word "simple" is not a problem here - I come from an engineering background where, generally, simpler is better.

This watch has sat on my desk for most of the week, and I have to say I am really taken with it.


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## martinzx (Aug 29, 2010)

Boots said:


> Sorry Martin, I'd love to, but so far I have failed to get the caseback off. It is a press fit, without any kind of groove or lip. I have tried, but no joy - it hasn't budged. I used Sellotape to try and protect the case, but I'm still worried about scratching the case.
> 
> It's going to need to be serviced, as it it losing quite a bit of time. @Simon2 is this a watch you would service?


 Have you looked through a loupe, I would guess there is a lip there somewhere, maybe it is covered with grime maybe? I would be bold and give it a go using an appropriate case opining tool of knife edge. Good luck! You can tell from the hands and the letter 'H' it is probably 1950's or possibly early 1960's.

Cheers Martin


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## Boots (Sep 22, 2018)

martinzx said:


> Have you looked through a loup﻿e


 Thanks Martin. I had looked with a loupe, but spurred on by your advice I looked again, and I found the smallest of indentations, almost nothing at all. But I tried the case opening tool there and, hey presto!

















So, all excited, I thought this will be a piece of cake to determine its age... off to Dr Ranfft.

But, Helvetia 831 movement shown there is a Dugena 997 (I assume this is a re-worked version of the Helvetia 831 as this identification is also shown on the movement). But the A/R adjustment is different - mine has this unusual (to my inexperienced eyes) geared drive, but Dr Ranfft's example has a much more traditional lever. I checked all of the Helvetia calibers, and none show this geared A/R adjustment.

Dr Ranfft sadly does not give a date range for this caliber, but gives the Dugena example as 1965.

In conclusion, I think we are one step forward, and half a step back. Anywhere from early to mid 1960s.

By the way, of course, by getting the back off, I have found more grime to clean up! But I shall have to proceed with even more care here.


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## martinzx (Aug 29, 2010)

Boots said:


> Thanks Martin. I had looked with a loupe, but spurred on by your advice I looked again, and I found the smallest of indentations, almost nothing at all. But I tried the case opening tool there and, hey presto!
> 
> So, all excited, I thought this will be a piece of cake to determine its age... off to Dr Ranfft.
> 
> ...


 Great fun! Well done! Well let the research continue!
I would guess late 1950's early 1960's :thumbs_up:

I must admit the gear adjustment is very interesting and may help you date it more accurately... I just love vintage watches, you never know what surprises lay hidden under the surface !!

Good luck


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