# Looking for a SARB065 cocktail time



## Robti (May 19, 2017)

Hi I am looking for the above and at the moment I can only find it on the bay at a couple of sellers supposedly based in Ireland, so just wondering if anyone could help either with these sellers or somewhere else

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEIKO-SARB065-Cocktail-Time-Mechanical-Automatic-Dress-Mens-Watch-UK-TAX-FREE-/282198802905?hash=item41b45c01d9:g:wo4AAOSwNRdX7Kox

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New-Seiko-SARB065-Automatic-Cocktail-Time-Gents-Watch-UK-TAX-FREE-FBA-/181617383280?hash=item2a493d5770:g:SW0AAOSwBahVOa~9

Thanks


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## Alan C (Apr 7, 2017)

Robti said:


> Hi I am looking for the above and at the moment I can only find it on the bay at a couple of sellers supposedly based in Ireland, so just wondering if anyone could help either with these sellers or somewhere else
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEIKO-SARB065-Cocktail-Time-Mechanical-Automatic-Dress-Mens-Watch-UK-TAX-FREE-/282198802905?hash=item41b45c01d9:g:wo4AAOSwNRdX7Kox
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New-Seiko-SARB065-Automatic-Cocktail-Time-Gents-Watch-UK-TAX-FREE-FBA-/181617383280?hash=item2a493d5770:g:SW0AAOSwBahVOa~9
> Thanks


I was looking at those last week and the Irish ones were on then. I was put off by the seller havinf a lot of bad feedback for watches not turning up. 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

Alan C said:


> I was looking at those last week and the Irish ones were on then. I was put off by the seller havinf a lot of bad feedback for watches not turning up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 My SARB065 from citiwide-online_uk arrived after about 10 days. In any case you are covered by PayPal if it doesn't arrive. I guess that they supply from China and trans ship from Ireland to the UK.



JonnyOldBoy said:


> most buyers would not be able to tell a fake of that watch.... I suspect the Hong kong seller is selling fakes to unwitting buyers....


 No way are these fake, never seen a fake Seiko, let alone a fake Seiko movement.

What's your expertise in fake watches that makes you doubt this ebay seller any way??


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## weaselid (Mar 24, 2012)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> most buyers would not be able to tell a fake of that watch.... I suspect the Hong kong seller is selling fakes to unwitting buyers....


 They are grey market sellers who bypass customs charges. My sarb033 arrived in a week. The only drawback is that the guarantee is Japan only. If there was a problem, you'd have to send it back to Japan. Apart from that the buying experience was smooth and hassle free. Plus £240 for a JDM Seiko with a 6r15 movement is excellent (sarb033)


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

I assumed that they are JDM hence tbe Japanese warranty. Movement is pretty bulletproof (they are all variants of the 7s26)


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## Ging (Feb 25, 2017)

I had a sumo of them took 8 days to be delivered plu no import tax


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Are you for real !? ..... a Hong Kong Supplier gets 100s of watches that they are selling at discount , rather than sold out outlets who would sell for more.... and you have never seen a fake seiko !?!? Have you ever left the UK !?!?
> 
> I have seen a fake of this watch ... from China ... The numbers "sold" on that eBay site suggest that they are not legit. These watches simply do not get shipped in those numbers..... astonished no one smells a rat when they see that on eBay... It like the Acmemade laptop bags from taiwan.... still.... good old inter web...


 So you are suggesting Creation and Sky Watches for example are not are not legit? They also have a huge turnover of Seiko, Citizen, Orient etc watches and have been around for years they may have their faults but fake watches? Any proof of this please?

Most dealers also have an ebay site they sell on, shoppinginjapan, chronext are a few that spring to mind why would the number of sold items on any given site suggest they are not legit? There have been several threads on other forums about the Irish site and I have not seen a single comment on them being fake.


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Are you for real !? ..... a Hong Kong Supplier gets 100s of watches that they are selling at discount , rather than sold out outlets who would sell for more.... and you have never seen a fake seiko !?!? Have you ever left the UK !?!?
> 
> I have seen a fake of this watch ... from China ... The numbers "sold" on that eBay site suggest that they are not legit. These watches simply do not get shipped in those numbers..... astonished no one smells a rat when they see that on eBay... It like the Acmemade laptop bags from taiwan.... still.... good old inter web...


 You have made a statement "I suspect the Hong kong seller is selling fakes to unwitting buyers"".... Again I ask you wheres your proof??

The ebay seller in question has over 60k transactions and no negative feedback about fake watches, obviously a lot of unwitting buyers like

I would suggest you post some evidence that this watch is fake before you make unhelpful comments suggesting that we are all dumb idiots now owning fake Seiko's ??



ZenArcade said:


> So you are suggesting Creation and Sky Watches for example are not are not legit? They also have a huge turnover of Seiko, Citizen, Orient etc watches and have been around for years they may have their faults but fake watches? Any proof of this please?
> 
> Most dealers also have an ebay site they sell on, shoppinginjapan, chronext are a few that spring to mind why would the number of sold items on any given site suggest they are not legit? There have been several threads on other forums about the Irish site and I have not seen a single comment on them being fake.


 Well said Sir


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> take a punt then folks..... good luck. But anyone that "has never seen a fake Seiko" presumably would not know one, so will be happy in any event... "where's my proof" !? what a vacuous and lateral comment... I said "suggest" not "are". You need to read posts properly. Also Creation watches last time I looked were in Singapore , not China. :clap:
> 
> Also , I am a 6000+ Ebay powerseller...and I know an awful lot about counterfeits on that site... its fairly easy to spot "dubious" sellers... its whether you want to take the risk or not. There is a Japanese power seller selling fake watches by the 1000s , he describes them as genuine.... if you trawl through his feedback , only about 1-in-300 buyers give negative and complain they are fake.... so 299 either do not know or do not care.... eBay is awash with fake goods....


 So are you or are you not saying that Citywide-online_uk are a dubious seller peddling fake Sarb065's???


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> where did I say that ?


 Man posts comment about a watch he purchased from a dealer and goes on to say no way is it fake, you reply with "Are you for real"

And you ask us to read the thread properly?

All we are asking for is evidence.


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> where did I say that ?


 You said this actually... "I suspect the Hong kong seller is selling fakes to unwitting buyers...."

The OP simply wanted to know if the two ebay sellers are OK - you say you suspect the Hong Kong seller is selling fakes - based on what evidence?? Sounds a bit libelous to me?


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> The current model of the Cocktail time , looks nothing like the ones for sale on those eBay listings ( scripting wise on the dial ) .... so another "flag" of caution for the OP would be exactly where are these sellers getting their stock from since production ceased a long time ago.... another question worth asking the Chinese seller before taking the plunge....


 That's because the current/new model is a SRPB43 and the older cocktail time is a SARB065???


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> so do you think the police are libellous every time they suspect something ? It only sounds libellous to you because you do not understand what Libel is ..... if you check one of those sellers , they have feedback from two buyers claiming bumpers were fake.... I think you will find even direct claims on eBay feedback are not libellous because of the nature of the feedback system. Anyway... if the OP wants to have piece of mind, all they have to do is ask for an actual photo of the watch they are buying and the serial number , and a quick call to Seiko will confirm its genuine.... and maybe they could also explain how comes the watches are for sale in Hong Kong for export in the first place while they are at it.


 He could also ask why are Seiko watches for sale from Singapore, Germany or anywhere else. He could probably ask Seiko why they make their watches in China too while he is at it I am sure Seiko would be delighted to be cross examined.

If you check Creation feedback you will find plenty of people ranting about poor stock they have received and no doubt worse. Quick search on any watch forum will bring up plenty of positive and negative reviews. The point we are all making here and keep asking is can you PLEASE provide us with proof that this seller is selling fake watches, just because they are based in Hong Kong and selling Seiko watches is proof enough is frankly ridiculous to say they least or "Why would they not sell them for more money" Erm because if they buy up a ton of stock and sell it cheap they make more money perhaps? Pretty much what Creation, Sky and a number of other grey market dealers do, oh and by the way, are you saying Creation are an authorized dealer for JDM Seiko watches? Evidence of this please.

Oh and the police need reasonable suspicion, key word here being reasonable NOT "They are Chinese and sell from Ireland so they must be dodgy"


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> so do you think the police are libellous every time they suspect something ? It only sounds libellous to you because you do not understand what Libel is ..... if you check one of those sellers , they have feedback from two buyers claiming bumpers were fake.... I think you will find even direct claims on eBay feedback are not libellous because of the nature of the feedback system. Anyway... if the OP wants to have piece of mind, all they have to do is ask for an actual photo of the watch they are buying and the serial number , and a quick call to Seiko will confirm its genuine.... and maybe they could also explain how comes the watches are for sale in Hong Kong for export in the first place while they are at it.


 So you still haven't' explained or defended your comment "I suspect the Hong kong seller is selling fakes to unwitting buyers...."


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

To the OP

Ignore JonnyOldBoy. Unlike him I'll try and be constructive and post photo's of my SARB065 and let more enlightened members if the forum give their views on whether it is genuine or not?


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Sorry but this is starting to become a common theme around here, people posting utter rubbish and then when being questioned reply "Well it's just my opinion" saying something is fake and then refusing to back it up with evidence is frankly, utterly worthless.

Yes, it's a watch forum not a pub beer garden and for precisely that reason we would expect someone who claims something to be fake to provide evidence of it being so.

If you were to say "You can tell a fake from a real Seiko movement by..." and give us some details and photos nobody would have a problem. If you said "This dealer can't be trusted because of these reasons..." (Not "Because they are Chinese") again, I would hold that opinion in some regard as it stands, all I see is a load of mud slinging without a shred of proof.


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> My final points on this for the OP.... if you want to see how eBay requires caution , just one example will be if you search Acme Made MacBook Air and look for a seller who sells them cheap, is a UK seller and shows their country of origin ( presumably he is unaware of this ) in one of his photos.... the country being one that does not make the genuine ones. His feedback is almost perfect. So indeed be very wary of eBay if the price and stock situation is surprising good , but I would be even more cautious on acting on the advice of anyone who ever tells you to ignore other peoples opinions. Especially on a forum like this. I bid you fair well on this topic and wish you good luck in your search for a 1st generation SARB065
> 
> I would be suspicious of wordsmithers who jump to the defence of Chinese sellers with a .co.uk addy..... without any evidence ... works both ways. If there is evidence to illustrate my suggestions and cautions are unfounded then where is it ? If the OP was questioning a AD , or mainstream site then that would appear here in seconds,,,, weirdly though , people who appear to know nothing about the site are jumping to its defence just because someone stated the obvious.... I never said "were" "is" , I said "suggests" . There is a world of difference and the lack of reasoned discussion I from the outside would appear to be dubious inself.....


 That's just the point though isn't it? I am not "Jumping to the defence" of anyone I am asking for proof of your claims nothing more. If what you say is true then I won't buy from them and you are doing us all a favour but as it stands you are just slinging mud about then saying "Not me Guv" when being pulled up.

You go on about people who don't know about the site well for God's sake if you know something about it tell us then, how hard can it be?

People here have actually bought from them and you come along questioning if they know the difference between a fake or real Seiko, great if you do then share the information with us.

In spite of you going all around the world with this all I am asking is what proof do you have to support what you say/imply/suggest?


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

Like i said he won"t back his claims up, because hes talking a load of waffly rubbish with simply no facts to back up his claim that these two Hong Kong based ebay selkers are selling fake SARB065's?

I've posted my watch photo's showing clearly a genuine Seiko i bought from one of those ebay sellers, but I'll also post a photo of the movement from a review of the SARB065 see below . I bet that they are the same though.










And mine again


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## weaselid (Mar 24, 2012)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Are you for real !? ..... a Hong Kong Supplier gets 100s of watches that they are selling at discount , rather than sold out outlets who would sell for more.... and you have never seen a fake seiko !?!? Have you ever left the UK !?!?
> 
> I have seen a fake of this watch ... from China ... The numbers "sold" on that eBay site suggest that they are not legit. These watches simply do not get shipped in those numbers..... astonished no one smells a rat when they see that on eBay... It like the Acmemade laptop bags from taiwan.... still.... good old inter web...


 I can categorically say that the sarb033 I bought from them was 100% legit. I know the 6r15 movement well. Also the black dial (which looks chocolate in the sun) for the 033 and the blue sunburst effect for the 065 would cost thousands to fake. The box, papers, cushion, dial, caseback, hands, bracelet, movement are all perect. Difficult to argue against that.


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## weaselid (Mar 24, 2012)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> OP , here is the trust pilot for the watch from "Ireland" seller.... its an Ebay listing violation for starters if that Item is not actually sent from Ireland ( which it clearly is not )... SO for starters avoid any online seller who is not telling the truth about where the item actually is being sent from .... if indeed as it seems the item is from Hong Kong...
> 
> anyway , here is the main reason to avoid like the plague.....
> 
> https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.citiwide-online.com


 Yes, I'd read about their poor customer service. However I bought knowing I was protected by PayPal and EBay.

Nothing much in the reviews about fakes. That is the spurious point we are contesting.


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

weaselid said:


> Yes, I'd read about their poor customer service. However I bought knowing I was protected by PayPal and EBay.
> 
> Nothing much in the reviews about fakes. That is the spurious point we are contesting.


 So let's recap on his argument that the two sellers from the OP are probably selling fake Seiko Sarb065 to unwitting buyers (1) Bad trust pilot reviews (2) Ebay seller based in Hong Kong (3) Ebay seller is selling old Seiko model (4) Ebay seller Trans shipping (5) there are too many Sarb065's on ebay and finally (6) Both ebay sellers are in multiple breaches of ebay selling rules.

I hope you have reported both sellers to ebay???


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

So are Creation an AD for JDM watches or not?

Reason I ask is the watch we are talking about is a JDM and part of your issue is the seller is not an authorized dealer.

By the way, I have a Seiko SARB bought from Japan from an AD and serviced a year or so ago by someone who knows a considerable amount about Seiko watches, will be happy to post up some photos of the movement for comparison with the cocktail time if you can spot a fake (by the way, if mine is fake even Seiko couldn't spot it as it's been checked over by them)


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> LOL.... on the Powerseller forum people used to debate "how do these Chinese drop shippers get away with it" etc etc etc "surely people are not that daft" etc etc etc We shall see , is the OP now cautious about purchasing from a listing-violating seller pretending to be in Ireland with a shocking Trustpilot review.... or..... will he get a bit edgy about that !? LOL..... also "part of my issue is the seller in not an authorised dealer" !?!? which was said ... never..... wordsmithing and word-fabricating are different... There are not many ADs that lie about their location for their internet shop to be fair , but a NAD who tells the truth with suit me fine.... LOL.... [ saying that , did get let down by a NAD with an omega that they "lost" ] ..... I think the time old rule that I sometime forget too is , if you can not afford it , don't buy it..... sure , people take a punt and it comes off.... and good luck to the OP if he "buys from Ireland" :bash:


 For your information, my watch was actually posted from Manchester - so this I found these ebay's rules on drop shipping..

Product sourcing (sometimes called drop shipping) is one way to sell items on eBay. Sellers using a product sourcing service never handle the item-instead it is sent directly from a warehouse to the buyer. The seller collects money from the buyer and pays the product sourcer for the item. This benefits both the buyer and seller. By purchasing in bulk from a product sourcer, the seller gets a discount and can pass those savings to the buyer.



*
Is product sourcing allowed?
*

Selling using a product sourcing service is allowed on eBay as long as the seller can guarantee that the item will be delivered to the buyer within 30 days of the end of the listing. Sellers who choose to sell using this method are responsible for the item and their buyer's satisfaction just like any other eBay seller. If there is a problem, it's the seller's responsibility to work it out with the buyer.

It doesn't specify where the warehouse should be or where the original source of the item was.

I got my watch in 10 days, so this meets ebay's rules???


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Creation and Sky watches are part of a legitimate supply chain and the only thing they do that is "dubious" is sometimes send out genuine watches in generic boxes. But that is for valid reasons. If you ask them for a photo of an actual watch they will oblige..... it would be interesting to see if the eBay seller could do the same.... there you go , prudence ,,, :thumbsup:


 For goodness sake!

Here are your exact words so are Creation and Sky authorized dealers for JDM watches or not? The cocktail time is a JDM watch.


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

ZenArcade said:


> For goodness sake!
> 
> Here are your exact words so are Creation and Sky authorized dealers for JDM watches or not? The cocktail time is a JDM watch.


 I think JonnyOldBoy is having fun winding us up??? He obviously loves to Troll??


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## grahamr (Jun 25, 2007)

Re: citywide-online_uk

just my view here..

was looking for a Blumo last week and came across citywide on the bay.. price seemed good but I looked more at the wording of the ad..

for an extra £10 they "claim" to offer 48 Hour royal mail tracked delivery.

So, I contacted the seller and asked if this was available..

answer came back as:,



Delivery Time: Royal Mail : 7-10 days / PNL : 7-14 days / DPD : 3-5 days / DHL : 3-5 days


After the payment has been fully recieved, please allow 3 working days for processing your order.


So I did some more digging.. address is:

*im *hoi

Rm526,5/F,Corporation Park,

default Shatin

Hong Kong

watch would have been sent from this address, and I WOULD have been liable for any import tax.

rather than claiming this seller sells fakes, it would appear that this seller "probably" sells grey imports, returns, seconds,

and reboxes them, as A1 condition, as, irony would have it the "genuine" JDM Seiko blumo has made in japan or just "Japan" on the dial.

but the picture of the blumo from this seller was marked as Movt Japan.. so this watch was originally destined for the USA market...

warranty, for the best part is not worth squat..

so.. at the price this seller wanted, plus any probable import duty

made me think twice.....


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## grahamr (Jun 25, 2007)

odyseus10 said:


> I think JonnyOldBoy is having fun winding us up??? He obviously loves to Troll??


 Actually, Creation and sky are most definitely NOT "authorised" dealers for JDM watches..

as the name would suggest, JDM means JAP domestic Market.. Not worldwide..

Seiko Never authorised the worldwide distribution of any JDM watch.

therefore there are no "authorised" Seiko JDM dealers..

that is why on Creation and Sky's website they "claim" NOT to be able to deliver Seiko Prospex, and the other JDM watches to the EU, states etc.....

But,, they do.....

Authorised as a Seiko dealer.. maybe,, certainly NOT for JDM variants....


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

grahamr said:


> Re: citywide-online_uk
> 
> just my view here..
> 
> ...


 Similar thread a few people have bought from them and the watch has suddenly arrived in Manchester clearance. No mention of having to pay VAT or anything but on the flipside, have read a few reviews of people buying and them coming problem free in a week or so time.


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## grahamr (Jun 25, 2007)

ZenArcade said:


> Similar thread a few people have bought from them and the watch has suddenly arrived in Manchester clearance. No mention of having to pay VAT or anything but on the flipside, have read a few reviews of people buying and them coming problem free in a week or so time.


 Yep..

I just got that feeling..

mind you.. the price of the blumo was outstanding.. but, origins aside,

I just didn't know what my money possibly would be funding..

it was that more than anything that made me hesitate....


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

grahamr said:


> Actually, Creation and sky are most definitely NOT "authorised" dealers for JDM watches..
> 
> as the name would suggest, JDM means JAP domestic Market.. Not worldwide..
> 
> ...


 If you want a JDM then this is the price you have to pay I'm afraid



grahamr said:


> Yep..
> 
> I just got that feeling..
> 
> ...


 I just didn't know what my money possibly would be funding...... I'm not with you on this??


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## grahamr (Jun 25, 2007)

odyseus10 said:


> If you want a JDM then this is the price you have to pay I'm afraid
> 
> I just didn't know what my money possibly would be funding...... I'm not with you on this??


 Agree with you, this is what you have to go through if you want a JDM watch.

"funding" -- well what with all this "ISIS" carp going about lately, with reference to manufacturers claiming

grey imports fund all sorts of nasty things..

just not sure....


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

grahamr said:


> Re: citywide-online_uk
> 
> just my view here..
> 
> ...


 You would only pay taxes IF and only IF the watch was being imported directly from China or Japan. As I pointed out earlier, the ebay auction state an EU source and therefore there will be no VAT to pay.

So where did the seller say the Blumo was located??



grahamr said:


> Agree with you, this is what you have to go through if you want a JDM watch.
> 
> "funding" -- well what with all this "ISIS" carp going about lately, with reference to manufacturers claiming
> 
> ...


 So does this apply for CreationWatches and SkyWatches too then??


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## grahamr (Jun 25, 2007)

odyseus10 said:


> You would only pay taxes IF and only IF the watch was being imported directly from China or Japan. As I pointed out earlier, the ebay auction state an EU source and therefore there will be no VAT to pay.
> 
> So where did the seller say the Blumo was located??


 this one was located at the address stated above,, (china) and would take upwards of 10 days to ship...

I pressed the dealer to say IF he could provide me with RM Tracked 48 Hour delivery..

the answer came back as stated.. delivery was 10 days.. "MOST PROBABLY" from china.


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## grahamr (Jun 25, 2007)

odyseus10 said:


> You would only pay taxes IF and only IF the watch was being imported directly from China or Japan. As I pointed out earlier, the ebay auction state an EU source and therefore there will be no VAT to pay.
> 
> So where did the seller say the Blumo was located??
> 
> So does this apply for CreationWatches and SkyWatches too then??


 In my view? No, as Sky and Creation are very well established,

but, still they ship JDM watches to countries that Seiko has never authorised them to do so..

it's a difficult touchy subject.., as, I have bought watches from both Creation and sky..

never had a problem, except with sky, had a quality issue, but paid a local watch repairman to sort it...


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

grahamr said:


> this one was located at the address stated above,, (china) and would take upwards of 10 days to ship...
> 
> I pressed the dealer to say IF he could provide me with RM Tracked 48 Hour delivery..
> 
> the answer came back as stated.. delivery was 10 days.. "MOST PROBABLY" from china.


 You would most probably have got stung for Parcel force custom charge and VAT then   - I see they do the Black version (SBDC031) from EU but not the Blue


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## grahamr (Jun 25, 2007)

odyseus10 said:


> You would most probably have got stung for Parcel force custom charge and VAT then   - I see they do the Black version (SBDC031) from EU but not the Blue


 yep.. I saw that too

the SBDC033 was described as "japanses" version


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

grahamr said:


> In my view? No, as Sky and Creation are very well established,
> 
> but, still they ship JDM watches to countries that Seiko has never authorised them to do so..
> 
> ...


 As I said with JDM, forget about the warranty - although someone did mention a UK/EU watchsmith who was happy to service & repair JDM or was I thinking about Orient watches??


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## grahamr (Jun 25, 2007)

odyseus10 said:


> As I said with JDM, forget about the warranty - although someone did mention a UK/EU watchsmith who was happy to service & repair JDM or was I thinking about Orient watches??


 General consensus with the JDM watches is tough it out.. self regulate, or pay a local watchmaker..

or in the case of the MM300, there is a guy in the states who is an expert on them......


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

odyseus10 said:


> As I said with JDM, forget about the warranty - although someone did mention a UK/EU watchsmith who was happy to service & repair JDM or was I thinking about Orient watches??


 I am not sure what you mean you may be referring to two different issues but Seiko UK will stand by any warranty on a JDM watch they looked at my Seiko bought from Japan. Once out of warranty there are folk over on these shores who can service the watch though that would depend on what it is (mostly the lower end stuff). With Grand Seiko for example, for service it would need to be sent back to Japan.


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> [site name and URL removed] are selling replica cocktail time watches for $250 .... these are not going to be junk for that money and the reviews tend to back that up .... so I would stand by my "suggestion" regarding supposedly grey market watches in large batch numbers for a watch that has not actually been manufactured for well over a year.....


Replica watches ... as in counterfeit? Looked at that site, seems to be dealing in "replicas." £25 or £250, a fakeroo is a fakeroo, they're junk at any price IMHO.

You KNOW we frown on such discussions, and this seems uncharacteristic of you. Maybe the mod will check on the IP you're posting from and determine if your account has been hijacked.

We just banned a user for transgressing this policy, I'm surprised anyone is so foolhardy to poke the bear again. UNLESS a troll is hijacking user accounts and having a laugh.


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## Biker (Mar 9, 2013)

I have been watching this thread with some interest, what bothers me is that everyone has pounced on JOB just for trying to advocate a wee bit of caution, which I think it is quite prudential.

As for fake Seiko's yes they do exist I fell foul to one of these vendors on ebay 3 or 4 years back, the only way I found out was because one day I noticed how noisy the rotor was, so fearing the worst I took it into my local watch repair guy and he told me it was a fake, albeit a good one. I was flabbergasted and he explained that the high end Seiko's are now so popular that they are faking them without them being overt fakes like the lucky-lucky man watches, so they can pass them off as authentic grey market items.

I questioned him about the seemingly narrow profit on these for the counterfeiters but he explained that they are scoring in volume on low profit margins, plus they pay np corporate taxes of any kind because they fly under the radar.


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> I don't think you have read the whole thread..... I am trying to point out to the OP that the sites may be selling Counterfeit watches to avoid him doing so... I did not put a URL in that post.... I typed a name of a site with out a URL.... If there is a URL in it , then thats a caching issue with your/my editor not sure which..... If you want to ban me for trying to advise someone caution on eBay who may be about to be ripped off , then thats your prerogative....


 Yes, I've just read the whole thread, out of curiosity. What a mess. You're advising caution, and then when asked for some corroboration of your concerns, you tried to explain, but not to others' satisfaction. The whole argument borders on schoolyard antics IMHO. Handbags at dawn, ladies. We all advise caution with EBay sellers, daily almost, there's no fault with that; discussion of or linking to counterfeits, that's a different matter. I thought I made that clear.

You typed a URL/domain name and the editor converted it to a link. Not my fault, it's the way the forum works. Welcome to Today, forum software does this.

If posting the name/link to a "replica" watch site was your way of justifying your argument, then whoopsie daisy you misfired. I'd ask the mod to edit/delete your post for you.


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Any one can see I was not try to post a URL , in fact the opposite ,,, hence the dot ... and anyone can see I am doing the opposite of promoting fakes but hey ho ,,,,, if you want me banned , get me banned. I would not want to remain if I am honest on a site that hounds out people for trying to stop newbies getting ripped off.... I have been a power seller on eBay for almost 2 decades , I know more about problems with sellers who misrepresent their locations than most but if that rings alarm bells and trying to warn a buying from buying a watch advertised as being in Ireland when its in HK and its being sold in illogical numbers given the production dates/amounts etc etc causes issues here then like I say .... happy to be shown the door.


Oh, stop your boohooing already. It's not your fault the forum detected the site that you mentioned and made a link to it, it happens. Since the time in which you can edit your past has expired, just ask Mach or ScottsWatches to edit your post for you.

I see nothing wrong with you urging caution with a certain type of eBay seller and you seemed to recount your reasons pretty well. The others didn't accept your arguments. THEIR problem, not yours.

But hey ho, you went a wee bit too far by listing a "replica" watch site and suggesting they're not junk for that price. Suspect there was some sarcasm present, but I don't see any smiles or emoticons so I have to speculate.

If you are so upset as to want to take your toys and trot on home, don't wait for us to agree. You are free to log out and take a sabbatical. I've done it a few times when I got my pants in a scrunched up bundle. It happens.

:drinks: on being a power seller on ebay for longer than some of our newer members have been adults. Clearly some members don't care. Not your problem.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Time for some of this. :yes:


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

From the length of your replies … "not upset" … "mildly astonished" … in a pig's eye.


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

Here's how I'd leave it:

Hrm, that eBay seller raises some concerns. But hey ho, order the JDM Seiko from them, if it's legit :drinks: . If it turns up fake, oops: :scared: :russian_roulette: Deal with it. 



JonnyOldBoy said:


> I just type fast... busy guy....
> 
> not too busy tho to help someone not get ripped off from Asia....


 No, sir. Not so busy that you can't post multiple lengthy replies on some watch forum explaining how your suspicions are justified. Repeatedly. You're not busy.

… But you ARE easy to troll. These other users have gotten you good and wound up. Keep that in mind.


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

Biker said:


> I have been watching this thread with some interest, what bothers me is that everyone has pounced on JOB just for trying to advocate a wee bit of caution, which I think it is quite prudential.
> 
> As for fake Seiko's yes they do exist I fell foul to one of these vendors on ebay 3 or 4 years back, the only way I found out was because one day I noticed how noisy the rotor was, so fearing the worst I took it into my local watch repair guy and he told me it was a fake, albeit a good one. I was flabbergasted and he explained that the high end Seiko's are now so popular that they are faking them without them being overt fakes like the lucky-lucky man watches, so they can pass them off as authentic grey market items.
> 
> I questioned him about the seemingly narrow profit on these for the counterfeiters but he explained that they are scoring in volume on low profit margins, plus they pay np corporate taxes of any kind because they fly under the radar.


 The OP wanted to know if the two ebay sellers were OK for getting a SARB065.

Two people have bought SARB065 from one of those sellers without any issue (including me). JOB stated he.. "I suspect the Hong kong seller is selling fakes to unwitting buyers...." WITH NO evidence to back this up.

The only person bringing up the subject of fakes or replica's in the first place was JOB

As to other ebay sellers or sellers on internet sites, is not a topic for this particular thread.

I posted photo's to prove that my SARB065 from citiwide-online_uk is genuine to give some reassurance to the OP.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Both my Sarbs came from Citiwide and are 100% legit :thumbsup:

ps they are both the most accurate watches I've ever had out of the box, +2 seconds a day


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

Roy said:


> Both my Sarbs came from Citiwide and are 100% legit :thumbsup:
> 
> ps they are both the most accurate watches I've ever had out of the box, +2 seconds a day


 You can't argue with that 

Which models did you get Roy??


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

odyseus10 said:


> You can't argue with that
> 
> Which models did you get Roy??


 033 & 035 :thumbsup:


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

Roy said:


> 033 & 035 :thumbsup:


 I thought about the SARB033, then I decided to push the boat out and buy a SARX029 Urushi instead


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> no no , actually I am naughty , I must stop this. Fake Cocktail time watches do have a very authentic looking Seiko copied movement..... and most people would indeed be fooled because from what have been told they are actually pretty well finished. However the straight stamped serial number is the give-away..... on fakes the serial number if closely examined in not stamped in one imprint , but in pairs , or even singularly.... in the watch shown on this thread by odyseus ,,, although purchased from an eBay seller in violation of listing policies , deliberately deceiving buyers and with feedback accusing them of selling fake items ( not watches ) ... it does seem that the watch is indeed genuine... so after a wee bit of consultation with my gay friend who loves all things fake ( and against my advice collects fakes ) ... I would say that that watch is indeed genuine.... so the OP can maybe take the punt after all... and "buy from Ireland" with a bit of reassurance from odyseus.... and can kick my advice into the long grass.....


 Even Roy has said he bought two watches from citiwide-online_uk, so just give it rest you are getting very boring now!


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> ah yes , you are the one who had never seen a fake Seiko.... :biggrin:


 You really love to troll dont you? For your information i got the Sarx029 from Saiyajapan...no doubt you will say they sell fakes too??


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Aaaargh!


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

I agree that all these Chinese and Hong Kong sellers should not be able to state on eBay that they are in different countries to where they really are. This is up to Ebay though and I'm sure we have all been caught out thinking they were in the UK, I know I have several times.

At the end of the day if you have any concerns over the item being genuine then don't buy it but if you do then your covered by PayPal and EBay if the seller is selling fakes.

As I have said my Sarbs came from citywide on eBay and they are great I checked the feedback and yes there are some negatives about delivery and supply but nothing about fakes, if there was then they would, I hope, be removed from Ebay.

Can we please drop the hostilities now, thank you :thumbsup:


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> A replica site is selling replica cocktail time watches for $250 .... these are not going to be junk for that money and the reviews tend to back that up .... so I would stand by my "suggestion" regarding supposedly grey market watches in large batch numbers for a watch that has not actually been manufactured for well over a year.....


 I have bought Seiko watches from AD sellers that had sat around before selling, there is a thread on another forum someone bought an Omega in 1976 that was actually made several years earlier.

NOS is pretty common in the watch world some several years or more old. Having stock of a watch only a year out of manufacturing is hardly remarkable.

One dealer you hold in high regard describes watches as "£15 measuring instruments" there is also plenty of negative feedback about them.

You don't appear to really know how the watch world works to be honest.



Roy said:


> I agree that all these Chinese and Hong Kong sellers should not be able to state on eBay that they are in different countries to where they really are. This is up to Ebay though and I'm sure we have all been caught out thinking they were in the UK, I know I have several times.
> 
> At the end of the day if you have any concerns over the item being genuine then don't buy it but if you do then your covered by PayPal and EBay if the seller is selling fakes.
> 
> ...


 Well said Roy, I would imagine before they were pulled by ebay they would have been called out on watch forums a long time ago, there are more than enough customers out there.


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

"I think we should dust off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."


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## Damo516 (Nov 9, 2015)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> By the way , the new version of this watch is the : SARY075 , it about $350 direct from Japan and would presumably incur a bit of import duty etc etc the only real cosmetic difference is the scripting on the lower dial.... It has an improvement to the movement as well.... if you are interested in a source for that , just message me.....


 Can you post a link please? Other members might be interested in this too.


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

Damo516 said:


> Can you post a link please? Other members might be interested in this too.


 The new Cocktail Time watch is better known as the SRPB43 (as I mentioned earlier in this thread).

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/2017-seiko-cocktail-time-srpb41-srpb43-srpb44-srpb46-4164802.html#/topics/4164802

you can pre-order from http://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/2017-seiko-cocktail-time-srpb41-srpb43-srpb44-srpb46-4164802.html#/topics/4164802


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## Biker (Mar 9, 2013)

OT @odyseus10 sent you a PM via the sales forum, did you get it?

....Everyone else, carry on and sorry for the intrusion.......


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## JDMdenon (May 11, 2017)

Seiyajapan or Yorkshire watches for jdm seiko stuff!!!


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## johnkops (Sep 30, 2017)

So i bought this item from the 1st seller (gizmo-outlets) and it arrived alright (Greece, no customs). The watch looks fine, was in a full case with tags and a guarantee slip (not filled in) which you can see in the photo attached.

Now,I tried to check the manufacturing date at watchsleutrh and entering the data http://www.watchsleuth.com/seikodatefinder/?mvmt=6r15&case=01s1&serial=750202 it comes back with May 2017- which doesn't make much sense if discontinuation was announced way before that.

This is my first watch buy, i read a lot saw a lot and this was where my budget would allow me to go. Did I want to buy from ebay? no. Was I afraid I could be cheated? definitely.

But I didn't want to take the risk of having the package stopped at customs and pay an extra 50-100-200 euros, since that would be way over my budget.

Now, I don't know if it is a replica or not. If I've been had or not. I leave it up to you to decide, you probably know a lot more than I do on how to spot a fake. I am just telling my story and attaching a couple of images in case a future buyer will find them helpful.


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