# Can Anyone Identify These Movements?



## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Top right is a Thiel Surprise (version E) & bottom right is a Thiel Viktoria both circa 1930. I don`t know if the other two were also made by Thiel, they don`t match any in the Watch Wiki`s Thiel section. The top watch is marked `German Made` on the dial,the other `Foreign Made` but although there are slight differences in the movements I`d think it safe to say they were made by the same firm, so do they look familiar to anyone? :huh:


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

I should add that both movements date from around the late 1920s/mid 1930s :wink2:


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> although there are slight differences in the movements I`d think it safe to say they were made by the same firm


What a dumb thing to say, what was I thinking when I wrote that? h34r:


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## BroDave (Sep 27, 2010)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> > although there are slight differences in the movements I`d think it safe to say they were made by the same firm
> ...


I have a "Services" Army - Foreign which looks like top right.

Any idea how to get the movement out?


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

BroDave said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> > mach 0.0013137 said:
> ...


I`m sorry but don`t know how to get the movement out (I leave such things up to those with more mechanical skills then myself) however I can tell you that the movement is a Thiel Regular rather then a Surprise. BTW any chance of a photo of the dial? :wink2:


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Here`s another one I`m trying to identify (the one at the top) it has the numbers 46/0b, the other two are marked UMK 83 & UMF 83.










To my eyes 46/0b has some similarities to the two I mentioned in my first post (shown on the left in the photo below), possibly a later version?



mach 0.0013137 said:


>


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## Mikrolisk (Jan 23, 2008)

The UMK is the german "VEB Uhren und Maschinen Kombinat Ruhla", a fusion of several companies, incuding the UMF (VEB Uhren und Maschinenfabrik Ruhla). Thus UMK = UMF.

Andreas


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Here`s another one I`m trying to identify (the one at the top) it has the numbers 46/0b.


Thanks to Hartmut Richter on WUS it has now been identified as a Kienzle 46/0b, he went on to say that they probably made the whole watch, I have come across one version of a Services Daventry from the 1950s which I suspected might have been made by Kienzle so it`s good to get confirmation of another company that supplied Services :thumbsup:



Mikrolisk said:


> The UMK is the german "VEB Uhren und Maschinen Kombinat Ruhla", a fusion of several companies, incuding the UMF (VEB Uhren und Maschinenfabrik Ruhla). Thus UMK = UMF.
> 
> Andreas


Thanks Andreas, I hadn`t heard of UMK but I did know that UMF was the post war Communist reincarnation of Thiel Brothers & that they`d supplied Services with watches from the late 1920s right up to the 1970s :wink2:


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## BroDave (Sep 27, 2010)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> I`m sorry but don`t know how to get the movement out (I leave such things up to those with more mechanical skills then myself) however I can tell you that the movement is a Thiel Regular rather then a Surprise. BTW any chance of a photo of the dial? :wink2:


Here is is...


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## bentleyT1 (Dec 12, 2010)

just pop the front surround with glass of ( stanley blade etc ) movement then comes out from the front quite straight forward.


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## BroDave (Sep 27, 2010)

bentleyT1 said:


> just pop the front surround with glass of ( stanley blade etc ) movement then comes out from the front quite straight forward.


Ta, success. It's knowing how much force is needed with these things that causes moments of tension.


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

This is a perfect example of how difficult it can be researching Services watches



BroDave said:


>


So although my `Army` looks very much like yours it may not have been supplied to "Services" by the same company ie Thiel Brothers.

So I know my two chrome pair on the right below (lumed `Army` & `Ensign`) were made by Thiel Brothers, I just wonder if they also made the Nickel pair on the left & if not who did? In my circa 1936 "Services" catologue although most models are marked on their dials as being `Foreign Made` mention is made in the text of some having Swiss movements, my presumption is that the others were German made so it is possible that my `Army` & `Scout` may have been sourced from another German company then Thiel.




























BTW note how the backs of each pair match however the nickel cases (left) are slightly smaller then the chrome ones.

Frank Liquorish didn`t make things easy for me when it comes to researching his company


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## BroDave (Sep 27, 2010)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> This is a perfect example of how difficult it can be researching Services watches
> 
> Frank Liquorish didn`t make things easy for me when it comes to researching his company


As a bit of a newbie, what is the dial made of? I want to give it a sympathetic clean but don't want to damage it.


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