# Old Russian Or Not?



## levon2807 (Mar 17, 2010)

I picked this up at the car boot today for Â£8 and immediately looked it up to find a lot of Chinese offerings...but not exactly like the one I have.

I can't get the back off easily and don't want to force it so can anyone tell me if this is a new/replica or an old Russian piece just from the front and back?


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Hi, looks like a Vostok to me... It's an Amphibia case anyways... is it automatic or wind up? I'm guessing the last...

Don't know about the dial and hands, seems like it has been painted or restored somewhere along the line. There's one thing that might support what I'm saying: on the dial you can see that it says CCCP but the flag is a post-Soviet Union Russian flag.

It's probably a franken Vostok but for Â£8 sounds like a very good deal to me, especially if you like the dial. Watch case seems to be in very good condition, they aren't usually that good over at the bay except if you buy a brand new one.

Nice catch!!


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## levon2807 (Mar 17, 2010)

Kutusov said:


> Hi, looks like a Vostok to me... It's an Amphibia case anyways... is it automatic or wind up? I'm guessing the last...
> 
> Don't know about the dial and hands, seems like it has been painted or restored somewhere along the line. There's one thing that might support what I'm saying: on the dial you can see that it says CCCP but the flag is a post-Soviet Union Russian flag.
> 
> ...


Cheers mate,

Its actually a wind up with a screw down crown. I've seen the Russian flag dial on Chinese imports before but they usually have a "b" initial to the bottom right

I'm guessing it's a diving watch?

I got a flimsy bracelet with it which has "hep" and then a symbol on the clasp as well as "3nm" on the inside


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

How dare you suggest my friend "Olga" is an old Russian, she's - - Oh, Ooops I see! 

It's a Boctok/Vostok with one of the myriad of dials Vostok's come fitted with. When you unscrew the crown, does it go all floppy? Floppy crown syndrome is an instant giveaway to a Vostok movement inside the Amphibia style case. :yes:

The CCCP and Russia signatures on the dial would be a transitional sort of piece, during the Glasnost period of the 80's. Most of the Russian makers "celebrated" with variations on the Glasnost theme, but hedged their bets a bit by nodding in both directions, the USSR and modern"open Russia" as this dial is trying to do. :thumbsup:

I'd say it was an original late 80's piece, the back has a "retaining ring" (with the slots) which unscrews to let you lift off the back plate. These can get crossthreaded if they've been taken off to replace seals and bodger-eed :yes: The fine pins on almost any back removal tool will budge them usually, the rubber ball won't look at them, 'cos it's NOT the back that unscrews, it's the retainer ring round the outside rim that does! If the watch is filthy, I always scrape the inner and outer gap round the ring with a fine driver, or a pin and some lighter fluid FIRST, it's amazing/disgusting the amount of carp you can get in there! :bad:


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## levon2807 (Mar 17, 2010)

mel said:


> How dare you suggest my friend "Olga" is an old Russian, she's - - Oh, Ooops I see!
> 
> It's a Boctok/Vostok with one of the myriad of dials Vostok's come fitted with. When you unscrew the crown, does it go all floppy? Floppy crown syndrome is an instant giveaway to a Vostok movement inside the Amphibia style case. :yes:
> 
> ...


You are a delightfully knowledgable chap Mel 

It is floppy, yes...the crown I mean! And it needs pulled out slightly to wind then more to set the hands

I'm looking to get a new strap for it today so I'll get the jeweller to open it up while I'm there...I'm guessing it'll be a pretty simple 17 jewel movement?


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

ISTR it will be a 2414 movement if it's hand wind, but a 2416(B) if it's auto, but it's a whiley since I've had the back off one of these. :yes:

You could try "ussr time" - Mark Gordon's website - via a Google and plough through the 13 or 14 more pages of Bostok dialled pieces listed there, and that'll maybe give you more info on this one. You'll also find the 3nm symbol listed there and on "ussr watches" again a Google should get you there, two informative reference sites for you! :yes:


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Well, I've been searching for that dial. Like Mel said, there are so many you are always finding a new one or a variation on a known dial. I found the same dial on a square Vostok (numerals an hour marks are different but the base theme is the same):










So that dial exists and Mel also explained why the discrepancy between the Russian flag and the CCCP on the dial.

I think I've never seen a Vostok with those hands painted in black but I doubt someone went to the trouble of opening the watch and taking the hands out just to paint the borders...

So, again, nice catch for Â£8!!!


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Found another one, this is the version you have but with the silver dial:


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## levon2807 (Mar 17, 2010)

Kutusov said:


> Found another one, this is the version you have but with the silver dial:


Great stuff guys!

I've been doing some digging myself but haven't found anything too solid.

Basically this is an amphibia, right? And that is Vostok's diving watch? It has to be a little older as modern ones are all automatic? Also, I'm guessing this is classed as a special or political one given the subject matter? 

Isnt watch collecting cool? Always another frontier to explore!


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

If that's an Amphibia?... I would also like to know that... I have a similar watch incoming so I tried to figure this out but I've yet to read the history on these watches on the webpages Mel pointed out.

Supposedly you have two classes of these watches: the Amphibia 200m WR with an auto movement; and the Komandirskie with a wind up movement and a 50m WR case.

What you have there is both: a komandirskie movement on an Amphibia case. If you look it up you'll find tons of these over at the bay. What it means (probably) is that someone got a case and a movement and assembled the watch.

I'm not sure about this because I found some references of early Amphibia watches with wind up movements and this case style. Yet I don't find those references conclusive on the fact that they were produced like that.

Does that mean you have a 200m WR watch? Well, I wouldn't risk it... You should have the case gasket in there and the crown is the same as in an Amphibia but still...

AFAIK, these watches were restricted to Soviet Union soldiers and officers but that was before the Wall came down. Nowadays they are not rare watches or hard to find. Also, they continue to be produced in the same style as before: dials with red stars, tanks, paratrooper logos, etc. What seems to have changed is that some dials had the hammer and sickle symbols and they were replaced by the double headed russian eagle (is it?) or the tri-colour russian flag. I've been looking for an Albatross dial with the old Soviet Union Navy flag... can't find it. There is a similar new dial but the flag is the new (and old...) tricolour flag.

So, in a way, you can look at these watches as having a political history, especially the old ones made during the CCCP period.


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## levon2807 (Mar 17, 2010)

I share your puzzlement on this piece...I also saw that Amphibians only came in auto, especially in to the 1980s. I think the only way to be sure will be to have it opened.

I did find a very small reference to a "cartoon style watch with the Russian flag on it" over in the WUS archives...it was in repsonse to what watches a group of cosmonauts were wearing in a photo posted...

So, the facts...1. it's a wind up, 2. it can't be pre-80s due to the flag? 3. it's Amphibian style...

Was hand winding an option on the Amphibians? It may well be that the auto function is just broken?

It is very tight so I'd say water resistance would be good...but 200m?


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm guessing that it's a franken watch like I said. Should be mid-80s like Mel said, the tri-colour flag was regarded as the tzar flag, so the political powers wouldn't find all that amusing to have a state-controlled factory producing watches with such a flag a tzar eagle, that would be regarded as reactionary and we all know how that usually ended... (again, it's just my guess).

There's an easy way to find out if it's an auto or not. When you wind it up, does the spring have an end? I mean, do you reach a point when you can't wind it anymore? If so, it's not an auto.

Regarding the 200m WR, well... as you know, 200m don't mean 200m of water. What it means is 20ATMs and you can have that pressure within a much shallow depth in real-life diving. Only way to know for sure how much that watch stands would be to test it but that's not cheap AFAIK...

BTW, just got myself a Komandirskie with a paratrooper logo  That's what happens when you start researching Vostoks ^_^










I have just the right strap for this one, oh yes I have!


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## levon2807 (Mar 17, 2010)

Wicked looking watch there mate  is it a right one though? Lol just kidding!

Mine is definately a hand wind - there's an end to the wind

Next step is to open it


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