# Converted Pocket Watches



## jnash (Dec 6, 2010)

really liked some of the converted WW2 watches that some guys in the ukraine have done (originaldeal2009)

however reading up about these on various forums am i to believe that

A) Ukraine is full of fake movements

B) Pocketwatches cant really deal with the shocks what it will receive when on your wrist.

C) nothing rare about them at all

Seems a shame as they look wonderful, i was going to try and win one, but if the movement is a replica then it really spoils it for me.

what do you guys think, any experiances you care to share.

Wow.. my first real post 

Thank you in advance

Jonathan


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## Julian Latham (Jul 25, 2005)

One thing they are not is WWII.

Most use Molnija 3602 movements, a movement that was first manufactured in late 1947. I would say that most I have seen on ebay use movements no earlier than mid 70's and more likely 80's. The watch factory closed in 2007.

Some, mostly those from Juri Levenberg, have 3603 movements with shock protection.

Always struck me as odd that these redials claim a German military connection - guess it must sell better in western Europe !!??


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## jnash (Dec 6, 2010)

Julian Latham said:


> One thing they are not is WWII.
> 
> Most use Molnija 3602 movements, a movement that was first manufactured in late 1947. I would say that most I have seen on ebay use movements no earlier than mid 70's and more likely 80's. The watch factory closed in 2007.
> 
> ...


thanks, i decided not to proceed with these for the mean time. i think my sudden obsession on old watches has something to do with my girlfriend getting me a watch box... looking for the fillers!


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## Julian Latham (Jul 25, 2005)

jnash.

I have the opposite problem - too many for the available accommodation ! - so may be able to help you solve yours.

e-mail me julian dot latham at ntlworld dot com

Julian (L)


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## tissotman (Nov 28, 2010)

same thing as the smiths custom dials everyone is at it by the look of it


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## PedroG (Dec 15, 2010)

On this topic and being a newbie on this matters I really what to know your thoughts on this molnija clock in special that is now on sell on ebay by 2/3 users (2 from Ukraine...).

1)



















2)



















This one has this caption:



> If you have been collecting Soviet watches for a while I think youâ€™re going to appreciate the following collectible timepiece, which was made by the Chelyabinsk Watch Factory together with the Second Moscow Watch Factory in 1951. This timepiece and similar watches were produced for the Air Forces of the Soviet Army.
> 
> This admirable timepiece features a restored black dial with 60 minute outer and inner track borders, Arabic numerals, outer line of 60 minute yellow numbering, two inner line of 1-12 hour yellow numbering and 13-24 hour red numbering, original hands and a sub-second's dial. Instead of the 60 there is portrayal of the Air Force symbol in the form of the wings with red five-pointed star.
> 
> ...


They have some marks of molnija engines but I don't find anything on them anywhere else.

Are they original? And even if they aren't, is this a bad deal since I like them? (meaning:does anyone knows if they suck?)

Thanks


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## Julian Latham (Jul 25, 2005)

The Molnija 3602 is a robust and reliable movement. Both the above are 15 jewel and nicely finished - later ones dispensed with the striping. It is almost certain that neither started life as an oversize wrist watch - they will have been modified in the Ukraine quite recently.

If you like the style and the price is right go ahead with the purchase, enjoy the watch for what it is. It will keep fair time but may not take kindly to robust use - the movement was designed to be relatively stable in a pocket - not whirling around on a wrist :jump: . There is a 3603 movement with additional shock protection but they are not that common and usually found in wrist watches from Germany (Juri Levenberg). Just don't believe all the sales pitch  .

I've got a fair few pocket watches with this movement and am a real fan.


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## PedroG (Dec 15, 2010)

Julian Latham said:


> The Molnija 3602 is a robust and reliable movement. Both the above are 15 jewel and nicely finished - later ones dispensed with the striping. It is almost certain that neither started life as an oversize wrist watch - they will have been modified in the Ukraine quite recently.
> 
> If you like the style and the price is right go ahead with the purchase, enjoy the watch for what it is. It will keep fair time but may not take kindly to robust use - the movement was designed to be relatively stable in a pocket - not whirling around on a wrist :jump: . There is a 3603 movement with additional shock protection but they are not that common and usually found in wrist watches from Germany (Juri Levenberg). Just don't believe all the sales pitch  .
> 
> I've got a fair few pocket watches with this movement and am a real fan.


Thanks for the advice, I will give it good care If I get my hands in one.


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

Just wanted to add my 2p worth.........."Good" pocket watches can withstand a lot of abuse, a chap called Charles Fasoldt got upset about people besmirching his pocket watch he made with a co-axial escapement in the 1850's so he strapped it to the connecting rod of a steam train, after the long journey it was still going and keeping good time within a couple of mins, considering the inertia subjected to the watch this was no mean feat.

As long as a pocket watch has sufficient suspension on the balance staff to protect it if it is dropped then it should be just as good as a wrist watch, infact larger wheels with a higher gear train count on the pinions means smoother and better power transmission 

Hope i haven't started a fight ))


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## Julian Latham (Jul 25, 2005)

harryblakes7 said:


> Just wanted to add my 2p worth .......... Hope i haven't started a fight ))


Your 2p worth, which is supported by your technical knowledge, is of far greater value than my halfpenny worth of a bit of enthusiasm with a sprinkling of questionable impressions picked up when trawling the net.

Sorry, no fight, just appreciation for the information.


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

Ah well were all friends here :cheers:

I guess if you put your mind to it you can make the best clock, pocket watch or wristwatch..... Something i found out recently was that the RAF used an IWC wristwatch with the caliber 89 movement built into a Lightning Aircraft Radar recorder, a camera took pictures of the planes radar at different times and at the top you could see the exact time displayed by the watch movement. They used the IWC movement as it could withstand the massive "G" forces exerted.......And of course you can buy a nice vintage IWC with the same movement in  Just in case your sat in a jet fighter..... :yes:

I do like the Russian Poljot chronograph's, i keep looking out for a nice one


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## PedroG (Dec 15, 2010)

Bought the first, because the second one was sold for 140$ (to expensive for me). Moments after a friend of mine shows me a watch with the same "face" but a different engine :huh:, but these are in most case resembled watches (right?) so I wasn't surprised.

Now it's him who was doubts about the authenticity of the watch in cause and I cant blame him. Tagged as a Shturmanskie watch it was no age information whatsoever and no fabrication marks.



















Is this a recent watch, a vintage, a fake? Thanks for your help.


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## Julian Latham (Jul 25, 2005)

harryblakes7 said:


> Ah well were all friends here :cheers:
> 
> I guess if you put your mind to it you can make the best clock, pocket watch or wristwatch..... Something i found out recently was that the RAF used an IWC wristwatch with the caliber 89 movement built into a Lightning Aircraft Radar recorder, a camera took pictures of the planes radar at different times and at the top you could see the exact time displayed by the watch movement. They used the IWC movement as it could withstand the massive "G" forces exerted.......And of course you can buy a nice vintage IWC with the same movement in  Just in case your sat in a jet fighter..... :yes:
> 
> I do like the Russian Poljot chronograph's, i keep looking out for a nice one


Where I got the notion about pocket watch movements not always being suitable for use in wrist watches has been nattering me - did I just make it up or did I read it somewhere ?

I have absolutely no techie knowledge of watches and really shouldn't repeat things I don't understand - but here's where I got the notion .... pocket watch movements in wrist watches ....

A completely pointless exercise, but I was doing nothing better with my time and it's been too cold to go out ....


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## Beethoven (Dec 9, 2020)

Hi , I would just like to add a comment about originaldeal2009.

I have purchased three watches from them and all have had considerable issues, eg hands falling off and losing 10 minutes per hour! The last one I sent back to him and he claimed the watch had got lost in the post. Less than a week later he has it up for sale!!! I have contacted the Police and Ebay but this seller is horrible and a real fraud. Because it takes over 45 days to return the watch to him it is out of Ebay cover so no comeback from them. I feel that I am only one of many who have suffered due to this seller. Please avoid and don't end up like me.


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