# Newly arrived Seiko SNE107 vs Citizen Excalibur and Prime



## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Haven't been posting much but got my Seiko SNE107 today and thought I'd share some pictures, comments and side by side with a couple of Citizen Ecodrive divers. This particluar Seiko does have a very unusual starfish bezel but IMO looks better on the steel bracelet version and it's actually sort of nice once you get over first impressions. Murphy, the guy that makes bezel mods for the Amphibias is working on a mod for this one as well and that's why I bought it. It's not ready yet, though, he's only offering prototypes to CONUS people that are willing to send him the watch. Apparently there's a little variation on the tolerances on these watches and he wants to know what they are, so he can make a fit all bezel.

I'm not going into the specs of the Seiko... let's just say it's about a 42mm case, quite comfortable, it solar and it's a 20ATM diver. What do I think of it... well, the bezel is strange looking abut somehow reminds me of a reversed TAG Super Professional 1000. It's 120 clicks but feels cheap and rattly when turning, doesn't feel solid and it actually feels more like a 60 click bezel, hard to find the "middle" clicks.

Bracelet is a true nightmare... unidirectional pins and middle collars, those higher polished little links that run vertically are separate from the main links (try to fit those two plus the collar plus trying to see what end of the pin goes in first...). The clasp has a diver extension that swivels but poorly and makes the whole clasp very long and awkward on the wrist. I think it's also a major contributor to the rattly sound and feeling of the bracelet. Oh, solid links but hollow endlinks. I have to say it feels cheaper and worst than the one I have on Seiko 5 SNZH.

The clasp with the extensions is easily replaceable, so first thing I'm going to do after posting this is to order a regular, non-branded clasp like the one on the photo below... they are cheap and look and feel much better built than the original Seiko ones. They cost peanuts, too.



The bezel always looks different on pictures because of the way a camera goes for light. The starfish shape is not as dramatic in real life. The dial is a beautiful black/grey sunburst thing and one doesn't see the solar cells beneath it. Several pictures of it on the wrist to try to show the nuances...







All the damn parts of the bracelet and the way it the clasp handles my wrist (ok, I'm very thin ATM but it's still around 7 inches, maybe a little bit less)





And side to side with the Prime and Excalibur





The Seiko is light and comfortable, at least the head sits very well. It will be much better once I sort out that rubbish original clasp. But, I'm sorry to say Seiko-fanboys, it doesn't hold a candle to the Citizens. The Excalibur is clearly the best, feels like something many holes above the Seiko and even the Prime. Heavy, SEL, fantastic bracelet, applied markers. The Prime now also comes on a bracelet with SEL, so it might feel closer to the Excalibur but it's more of a tool watch, looks bigger and bolder. The Seiko is a clear last for me. I paid retail but grey market and miraculously no duties or taxes (can't remember the last time that happened!!). It's nice for the money I paid but I would be ticked off if I had paid the prices it goes for in Europe.

That's all folks , no more reviews from me for the next couple of years artytime:


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## Gpts (May 24, 2015)

Thanks for the write up its a good looking watch. I'm a bit gutted to hear about the bracelet - I should have the same watch arriving tomorrow.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Thanks for the info, must say the Seiko looks nice in the pics. I've had the 'scaliber and its a fine watch though the dial on mine looked a little cheap and the finish on the bezel insert was poor like it had been done on one of those old dot matrix printers. :biggrin:




__
https://flic.kr/p/qdBNzJ


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Gpts said:


> Thanks for the write up its a good looking watch. I'm a bit gutted to hear about the bracelet - I should have the same watch arriving tomorrow.


Well, maybe it will work out for you... It's not Soviet era Vostok bad but not nearly as nice as you would expect from something like this. Get ready for a serious PITA to size it, do it before having coffee...



Nigelp said:


> Thanks for the info, must say the Seiko looks nice in the pics. I've had the 'scaliber and its a fine watch though the dial on mine looked a little cheap and the finish on the bezel insert was poor like it had been done on one of those old dot matrix printers. :biggrin:


That's strange... both are very well done on mine, although my insert already has a nasty scratch on it.

Oh, forgot to mention a couple of things...

- Rattly bezel also, it has the usual space between the case and the bezel but bounces quite easily.

- Mine has the usual problem of date and day not aligning properly on the window. Sate is sort of OK but the day is too high on the window.

Mind you this is a grey market one and was the cheapest I could find. Could have something to do with that. Bezel was something that was going to be replaced ASAP (it was Murphy's mod that made me go for it), clasp is on it's way. Should be fine after that but, comparing this to a modern Seiko 5, the 5ever is probably on average a better watch.


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

I really like that Seiko, and I'm quite surprised you're so critical of it mate. In the photos, it looks much better than either of those Citizens. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it's probably one of the nicest looking Seikos I've seen on here. Personally, I'd stick it on a decent quality rubber strap - Sorted :thumbsup:


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Kutusov said:


> Gpts said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the write up its a good looking watch. I'm a bit gutted to hear about the bracelet - I should have the same watch arriving tomorrow.
> ...


mine was a chinese assembled one with the jap movement but I don't know if that was why :thumbsup:


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## Gpts (May 24, 2015)

I got the orange faced version last week, and the bezel movement on that is ok. Day date is slightly misaligned too, but not enough to annoy me. I'm on the list for the Murphy bezel too, although I think that could be a while away.


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## martinzx (Aug 29, 2010)

Hey Renato,

Any chance of a close-up picture of the day/date of the Seiko?

Cheers Martin


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Davey P said:


> I really like that Seiko, and I'm quite surprised you're so critical of it mate. In the photos, it looks much better than either of those Citizens. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it's probably one of the nicest looking Seikos I've seen on here. Personally, I'd stick it on a decent quality rubber strap - Sorted :thumbsup:


Not discussing the looks Dave, that is subjective and, no matter how much I might praise the Excalibur, I still wish it had different hands... but qualitywise, finish, how it feels when you handle it, both Citizens are way better built.



Nigelp said:


> mine was a chinese assembled one with the jap movement but I don't know if that was why :thumbsup:


Shouldn't matter Nigel, they are all the same the thing. The Japanese version just means it was assembled in a factory in Japan, has a microscopic "Made in Japan" on the dial and you pay a lot more for that.



Gpts said:


> I got the orange faced version last week, and the bezel movement on that is ok. Day date is slightly misaligned too, but not enough to annoy me. I'm on the list for the Murphy bezel too, although I think that could be a while away.


I'm hoping it comes sooner than you think, I was told he just needed a few more as Seiko tolerances range more than his machines that have more accurate numbers. Don't ask me if that makes any sense, I don't know a thing about that stuff!



martinzx said:


> Hey Renato,
> 
> Any chance of a close-up picture of the day/date of the Seiko?
> 
> Cheers Martin


Let me get the camera and macros, Martin...

Oh, and BTW, lume is better on both Citizens but both are remarkably good on that point. The Seiko is still very good.


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

martinzx said:


> Hey Renato,
> 
> Any chance of a close-up picture of the day/date of the Seiko?
> 
> Cheers Martin


Sorry for the crappy pictures, it's hard during night time... and it's funny but isn't as noticeable in these. Maybe they are not so far out of place but the window is deep and the top edge throws a shadow on top of the day letters. These are taken straight on, 90º angle and light coming from a similar position, maybe that's why.





Date wheel is cool, Saturday is blue, Sunday is red.


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## dapper (Jun 18, 2004)

An interesting read :thumbsup:

A shame about the issues - the misaligned day/date would drive me nuts :laugh: Always a bit surprised to hear of faults with Seikos, so used to there not being any.

I think it's a great looking watch &, having now seen your shots, love that distinctive bezel :yes:


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Yes, the bezel is a lot nicer than it looks on most pictures, it's the (gentle) sloping sides and high polish there that makes it look weird. Day/date misalignment seems to be a problem with most of these watches, judging from forum reviews. But the second hand hits all the markers dead on all across the dial.


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Your bracelet looks better than the one on this thing:










The bracelet and clasp are like a collection of razor blades. :laugh:

Later,
William


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

You know me Will! I only buy quality *****!! artytime:


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## PDXWatchCollector (Nov 15, 2013)

I'm a big fan of the bezel that came with the watch ... can't wait to see the aftermarket improvement! :thumbsup:


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## badgersdad (May 16, 2014)

I miss my excalibur. It felt tougher than any watch I've had since. :sadwalk:


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Well, this Excalibur is my second one... bought one new, decided to sell it, regretted it, bought another one new, almost sold it again. The looong clasp with no microadjustment doesn't fit right on my wrist and, being a pretty heavy one, would slide down and have the crown dig into the top of my hand to the point of even taking skin out! I also replaced the clasp on that and now is a perfect fit.


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## martinzx (Aug 29, 2010)

Thanks renato for the close up, I really like the look of the Seiko, I agree the bracelet looks a bit cheap, but the bezel looks really great in the pics & the day/date for me is OK.

But i am also a big fan of the Citizens, I like all 3!!

Cheers Martin


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## Gpts (May 24, 2015)

Quick pic showing day/date on the one I picked up last week.


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Great looking Citizens you have there Renato :biggrin:


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Gpts said:


> Quick pic showing day/date on the one I picked up last week.


It's pretty rare to see one of these with aligned day/date. Probably when their machines screw up :biggrin:



martinzx said:


> Thanks renato for the close up, I really like the look of the Seiko, I agree the bracelet looks a bit cheap, but the bezel looks really great in the pics & the day/date for me is OK.
> 
> But i am also a big fan of the Citizens, I like all 3!!
> 
> Cheers Martin


You're very welcome. I know you are not into modern quartz but just in case you decide to get one as an always ready to go beater, the Excalibur is by far what feels and looks the best one but it's a big watch. It has long lugs and the endlinks end even further out. I can't remember if you've owned a Steinhart Ocean (I think you did) and it's a bit similar in size. Lugs and SEL are more curved though and you don't have the high caseback so it sits a lot better on the wrist than an Ocean.

I still think the BN0000-04H is the one to get if you want a terrific everyday watch with no thrills, just a tool watch that is the best bang per buck.



mach 0.0013137 said:


> Great looking Citizens :biggrin:


 artytime: I know Mach, I know.... What did you think of my analogy of a reversed TAG 1000 Professional bezel? You must have loved that part artytime:


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## jmm1 (Aug 18, 2009)

As nice as the Excalibur is, the only down side, well for me anyway is that it's a 23mm lug width iirc and have problems with finding the right size NATO to fit.


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

jmm1 said:


> As nice as the Excalibur is, the only down side, well for me anyway is that it's a 23mm lug width iirc and have problems with finding the right size NATO to fit.


If that was the only problem!... You can get a 23mm thin and very nice looking NATO or Zulu from Strapcode - one of their Miltat ranges - but good luck trying to fit that! The springbars are so close to the case that I had to take them out, squeeze the strap against the case and force the springbars on top of it. In the end I came to the conclusion I always come, I can't wear a NATO, but I would be worried about a springbar jumping out of breaking the head.

I think I used the original springbars which, although not Seiko's fat bars, are midway between regular springbars and Seiko's. So I guess you could fit a 1p nylon better by getting thinner 23mm bars.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Kutusov said:


> martinzx said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Renato,
> ...


Is it me or do the lume plots look like fried eggs :biggrin:


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

It's not you! Flat edges but then a big drop in the middle. Look very cool though! I'm sure it improves the lume too.


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## badgersdad (May 16, 2014)

Kutusov said:


> Well, this Excalibur is my second one... bought one new, decided to sell it, regretted it, bought another one new, almost sold it again. The looong clasp with no microadjustment doesn't fit right on my wrist and, being a pretty heavy one, would slide down and have the crown dig into the top of my hand to the point of even taking skin out! I also replaced the clasp on that and now is a perfect fit.


Exactly that with the clasp. I should have replaced mine. Maybe I'll buy another.

:yes:


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Nigelp said:


> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> > martinzx said:
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If those are hen's eggs, the watch must be huge!

Later,
William


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

William_Wilson said:


> Nigelp said:
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> > Kutusov said:
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ones off centre some one at Seiko set the machine up wrong! Nay Lads.


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## badgersdad (May 16, 2014)

Nigelp said:


> William_Wilson said:
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> 
> > Nigelp said:
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Ooh. Heresy.


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

badgersdad said:


> Nigelp said:
> 
> 
> > William_Wilson said:
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No don't think so Matey defo a Seiko it says so...Heresy are them birds that fly backwards in the desert


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

badgersdad said:


> Exactly that with the clasp. I should have replaced mine. Maybe I'll buy another.
> 
> :yes:


Mine looks like this now.



The original is so absurdly long that I had to put 3 or 4 links back on :wacko:



Nigelp said:


> ones off centre some one at Seiko set the machine up wrong! Nay Lads.


Maybe not, I don't have a proper macro lens, just those lens you screw like a filter onto your 35mm standard lens. It might have sort of fish eye effect.


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

Interesting read & I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the other Citizen - the Prime. Who gives the watches these names & why is it called the Prime? I like the look of this one much more than the Excaliber. Again why? Is it because of the sword hands? If so then why isn't every watch with sword hands named after a sword?


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

pauluspaolo said:


> Interesting read & I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the other Citizen - the Prime. Who gives the watches these names & why is it called the Prime? I like the look of this one much more than the Excaliber. Again why? Is it because of the sword hands? If so then why isn't every watch with sword hands named after a sword?


Ah, the names... well, I guess they want to find them nicknames because it's a bit hard remembering the long number and letter code of each one (like with Seiko and their Sumo, Monster, Shogun... none are official names) . Plus, those codes change from market to market. Both Excalibur and Prime names come from WUS. I wasn't around for the naming of the Excalibur but yes, it has to do with the hands. The Prime... well, it's a silly name that I was against but stuck. It's Prime as in... Optimus Prime from the Transformers and got the name because the marker at 12. People see its logo there:



As to the Prime, it's a great watch but nothing much to say about it. It's a 42mm at the top but the case is a like a cone section, being 44mm at the base. Solar quartz, 200m WR, second hand hits the markers throughout the dial, big wide hands and big markers that makes it very easy to read. Quite a lot of chrome on the applied markers also, which makes it even easier to read if you catch a glare on the mineral crystal. Case and bezel have a nice machined look to them, with well defined and sharp curves and angles. 20mm lugs and there's an option of a bracelet like the one on the Excalibur, with SEL and ratchet clasp. These new bracelets are excellent, very well built and finished, at least as nice as Steinhart quality.

Lume on the Prime must be among the best I've owned, if not the best. Doesn't impress much at first as you might have seen what looks stronger, especially if you compare it with green lume. This is blue and our eyes are more impressed by green shades. It's very quick to charge and very strong though. Also, it lasts a very long time. Never owned a Monster but it can't be much better but this one.

I could do with a no date, especially because of the place they chose to put it. Doesn't look good but makes sense, you sacrifice a smaller marker rather than the big one at 3 for what is a small date window. Makes it potencialy easier to read as you don't have to put the watch parallel to you. And that's basically what this watch is... a pick up and go that has excellent readability, The way I look at it is like the way I used to look at the old Subaru Impreza... odd, not really impressive looks apart from the stuff you might not like. But it's tough, it performs, it's cheaper than a lot of alternatives and that's a huge part of its beauty.


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## badgersdad (May 16, 2014)

pauluspaolo said:


> Interesting read & I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the other Citizen - the Prime. Who gives the watches these names & why is it called the Prime? I like the look of this one much more than the Excaliber. Again why? Is it because of the sword hands? If so then why isn't every watch with sword hands named after a sword?


I read the thread where they chose the name excalibur. It's just a couple of geeks taking turns to make suggestions. It's quite entertaining how into it they get.

No offense to any geeks who might be passing this way. :whistling:


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

badgersdad said:


> pauluspaolo said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting read & I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the other Citizen - the Prime. Who gives the watches these names & why is it called the Prime? I like the look of this one much more than the Excaliber. Again why? Is it because of the sword hands? If so then why isn't every watch with sword hands named after a sword?
> ...


I think I've went though it also, now that you mention it. The name wasn't even all that hard pressed or accepted but dutyfreeisland picked it up. I've learned about the watch only when they sent me an email saying the "Citizen Excalibur" was in stock, etc. The Prime was a much more active discussion, with me begging them not to go for the name of a toy artytime: I must say I tried manly names like Stonefish (the RN naval mine) but they wouldn't have any of it :sadwalk: :biggrin:


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

Ta for the info - am tempted by the Prime (hatefull name!) - I like it a lot


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Well, if it helps, you can call it BN0150-10E which is the European model code. Bracelet version is BN0150-61E and costs about €100 more :wacko: I'm pretty sure you can have it upgraded to sapphire if you get it from taucheruhren in Germany, which also has one of the cheapest prices and it's from where mine came from.


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

And my new clasp finally arrived... so, going back, it went from this very uncomfortable setup...



...to a much more manageable...



I should add another link but feeling very lazy after thinking about all those parts and collars on this bracelet...


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Kutusov said:


> And my new clasp finally arrived... so, going back, it went from this very uncomfortable setup...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks like a clone of a standard non-extendable Seiko clasp.

Later,
William


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## Gpts (May 24, 2015)

New clasp looks much better. Must get one for mine!


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Gpts said:


> New clasp looks much better. Must get one for mine!


Well worth it! BTW, Murphy's bezel mod is also ready and available at his webpage. 40+ US + shipping...



William_Wilson said:


> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> > And my new clasp finally arrived... so, going back, it went from this very uncomfortable setup...
> ...


It's shorter and it looks better made than the standard Seiko. There's a side by side photo on the first post.


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Kutusov said:


> And my new clasp finally arrived... so, going back, it went from this very uncomfortable setup...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is it a bit tight going over your hand?

Later,
William


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

William_Wilson said:


> Kutusov said:
> 
> 
> > Is it a bit tight going over your hand?
> ...


Arrgh, hate this quote system!!! :taz:

Yes, I need another link. It was a "cold" day over here but if it was warmer I would have had to take it out the wrist. It's basically the diver extension section that needs to be compensated for.


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