# Where Does This Junk Originate?



## Roger (May 17, 2003)

Whilst looking for something else!......I found these two "movements".....bowel movements might have been a better description!

Two Elysee watches that I was once stupid enough to buy....both failed in the same fashion...the date wheels constantly jammed ( both of them).

On examination, they both appeared to have been made from recycled fast-food trays.

Where does this crap originate??

Roger


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

I think the movements shown are chinese, I`ve got a couple of Elysee`s with ETA & Miyota movements









The company seemed to scource the movements from all over


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## Roger (May 17, 2003)

No indication of origin on these...(aren,t they modest!!! )

Anyway,those two movements are free to any regular forumer who sends me a stamped/addressed jiffy bag (UK only)

I should add that they both run, but have no dial ir hands...the date wheels disintegrated.

Roger


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## Mark_B (May 2, 2005)

Hi Roger,

Yeah, g'won then I'll have em. - Will be usefull to 'practice' on if nothing else.

cheers,

Mark


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## obsidian (Sep 3, 2005)

Elysee is one of those "Germasian" brands, like Trias, Aeromatic, Tauchmeister, etc. The type of watches that make the guys on the German watch forums start foaming at the mouth and barking like Chihuahuas! The only thing German about these brands is their company marketing address; they are usually 100% Chinese made-- except for a few high end models of Elysee and Trias with Swiss movements (again, not German!)

Now, there's nothing wrong with Chinese watches-- hell, some of my Chinese movements keep better time than some of my Swiss movements-- you just need to go into the deal with eyes open and know what is Chinese and what is German, and pay accordingly.


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

obsidian said:


> Elysee is one of those "Germasian" brands, like Trias, Aeromatic, Tauchmeister, etc. The type of watches that make the guys on the German watch forums start foaming at the mouth and barking like Chihuahuas! The only thing German about these brands is their company marketing address; they are usually 100% Chinese made-- except for a few high end models of Elysee and Trias with Swiss movements (again, not German!)
> 
> Now, there's nothing wrong with Chinese watches-- hell, some of my Chinese movements keep better time than some of my Swiss movements-- you just need to go into the deal with eyes open and know what is Chinese and what is German, and pay accordingly.
> 
> ...


I agree the German connection is tenous, I`ve seen this watch watch with `Woodford` on the dial and they are an old English clockmaker









They sell it for Â£240, I got mine from Roy at Â£75









*Elysee `Open Heart`, ETA 2824-2, 25 Jewels.*










I`ve also seen almost identical models to this with the same movement (although most have had `Miyota` on the rotor where this has `Elysee`) but with different names on the dials.

*Elysee 44mm, 21 Jewel Miyota 8200 Series*










I`ve also just got it in black ( now on the same type strap as the white one)...










Photo by rsykes2000

Personally I`m very impressed with the quality of these watches even when compared to my more expensive makes


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

I have two Trias watches with Unitas 6497 movements

Cases are Ok, movements are OK, exhibition backs OK Good value for money.

I think it is only when we have been conned that we have a winge, that is only human. If I like a watch and want to buy it, I find out everything I can about the brand and then go into the deal with my eyes open.



















I'm happy with both of my Trias watches.


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## Roger (May 17, 2003)

> I think it is only when we have been conned that we have a winge


I dont think that there is any question of being conned...both were second hand and both were very cheap.

I was just curious to know who was producing such crap movements for Elysse and probably other makes too.

I am quite fortunate, in that quite a number of watches come-and-go here......there are lots of good ones and a few rubbish movements like these.

I would hate for a newbie to buy one of these, thinking it was a quality make.

Initial dissapointments last a long time


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

Roger said:


> > I think it is only when we have been conned that we have a winge
> 
> 
> I dont think that there is any question of being conned...both were second hand and both were very cheap.
> ...


I agree with you.

My point was if you see a Â£1000 watch for Â£100 you must ask questions. If you see a watch with an RRP of Â£650 going for Â£20 as a well known brand does, you ask questions, and more and more first time buyers are coming to forums to find out, before they buy and posts like yours do help to inform them.

The ones I feel sorry for are the new buyers, collectors or otherwise, but didn't we all make mistakes when we started and we most probably learnt a valuable lesson from those mistakes.

My point about the winging, wasn't directed at you, but generally. I have had a winge in the past but, for every time i've had a winge about something, 10 things have gone right.


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## Roger (May 17, 2003)

> I have had a winge in the past but, for every time i've had a winge about something, 10 things have gone right.


Yes quite.....

Having a winge doesn't often put things right, but it can make you feel better about it


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## Regal325 (Aug 5, 2005)

I was unlucky (stupid?) enough to buy an Elysee...the one with 4 sub-dials as per that expensive Ferrari thing.....what a load of poo it was too....one of the sub-dial hands fell off, and the two seperate date-wheels jammed-up just as stated in the thread.

What a let down it was....wont buy another Elysee for sure


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Roger said:


> > I think it is only when we have been conned that we have a winge
> 
> 
> I dont think that there is any question of being conned...both were second hand and both were very cheap.
> ...


The trouble is using crap movements such as these gives a company a bad name which is why I posted details of my Elysee models to show that they can make, or maybe market would be more appropriate, decent watches and as Roy has shown so can Trias.


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

> ←
> ​


Roger

I think the problem stems from the fact that when selling watches from any country, they should state what movement is in the watch. Elysee do watches with chinese movement, Miyota which you can find out about and have even done a model with a Unitas movement. Some give obscure movement numbers and I take it they are of Far East/Chinese origin.


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

Regal325 said:


> I was unlucky (stupid?) enough to buy an Elysee...the one with 4 sub-dials as per that expensive Ferrari thing.....what a load of poo it was too....one of the sub-dial hands fell off, and the two seperate date-wheels jammed-up just as stated in the thread.
> 
> What a let down it was....wont buy another Elysee for sure
> 
> ...


Unlucky maybe, stupid maybe but maybe the thing to do is complain to the company in question but often we don't. We accept that we paid little money for the watch and write it off, when maybe what we should do is complain. If companies get enough complaints they may start to listen, no complaints and the companies think they are getting it right.


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

USEDMODEL said:


> Regal325 said:
> 
> 
> > I was unlucky (stupid?) enough to buy an Elysee...the one with 4 sub-dials as per that expensive Ferrari thing.....what a load of poo it was too....one of the sub-dial hands fell off, and the two seperate date-wheels jammed-up just as stated in the thread.
> ...


And has been shown not all Elysee watches are bad, the problem as already indicated is that they are most likely just a marketing company who buy in watches made by other people who put the `Elysee` logo on for them, this practice has been and still is done by many companies


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

I used to see them flying out of Ebay at Â£50-70 a time and thought that was Â£50-70 too much.







The company ethic IMO resembles another well know purveypr of tat, million smart tat.









I steer well clear of any company that authorises sales drivel like this







:-

"The 2004 ELYSEE Watch collection. ELYSEE, the watch brand from DÃ¼sseldorf/Germany Pforzheim is a small region located in Germanyâ€™ s Black Forest. For centuries, Pforzheim is recognized throughout the world for the finest craftsmanship in precision timepieces. Although, ELYSEE in 1960 was born from this great region of German watch craftsmanship it demanded a new home to show the world the quality and beauty of the ELYSEE timepieces. ELYSEE choosed DÃ¼sseldorf, Germany, known as â€œThe Fashion Cityâ€œ for itâ€™s new home. Here, the highly competitive fashion world that demands elegance and fine product quality exposes ELYSEE as one of the great timepieces among the others. ELYSEE combines German attention to craftsmanship and technology along with its artistic presentation of strength and beauty. So real is the ELYSEE timepiece, it becomes â€œLivingâ€œ. You note through itâ€™s transparent case back an active â€œmoving heartâ€œ. The ELYSEE collection 2004 brings variations of purpose in a timepiece to demand its beholder. From multifunction watches, elegant chronographs to dual timepieces for the global traveller. Your ELYSEE timepiece is safely contained in an elegant casing that you will find attractive for display, and useful for other purposes like spectacles etc.


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

> And has been shown not all Elysee watches are bad, the problem as already indicated is that they are most likely just a marketing company who buy in watches made by other people who put the `Elysee` logo on for them, this practice has been and still is done by many companies
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 If you want to complain the only address I can find for Elysee watches is:

ELYSEE-Uhren GmbH/DÃ¼sseldorf-Germany

Worth a try!!!!!!!!!!


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

MarkF said:


> I used to see them flying out of Ebay at Â£50-70 a time and thought that was Â£50-70 too much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes Mark .......................... crap speak !!!!!!!!!!


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## Regal325 (Aug 5, 2005)

> I steer well clear of any company that authorises sales drivel like this :-


I wish I had.....but I know better now........I tried complaing to Elysee, and was told that my "beef" was with the seller...who... yes you guessed it..."went out of business"....German retailer it was too.


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

Regal325 said:


> > I steer well clear of any company that authorises sales drivel like this :-
> 
> 
> I wish I had.....but I know better now........I tried complaing to Elysee, and was told that my "beef" was with the seller...who... yes you guessed it..."went out of business"....German retailer it was too.
> ...


Sorry to hear that......... so even complaining did no good.

Surely, if the company that they supply goes bust, they have ultimate responsibility but apparently don't want to exercise it.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

USEDMODEL said:


> Yes Mark .......................... crap speak !!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep







The upside is that most Elysee owners will at least have a functional spectacle case so all is not lost.









Off topic, but I saw a Liverpool FC authorised "watch" in a paper yesterday and the sales bollox was worse than the above. At best, the piece of ugly junk was worth Â£5 and I think they wanted Â£37 a month for a year.







What made me mad was that the spiel suggested you were not a true supporter unless you bought one.







Who at Liverpool FC gives the authority for their supporters to be shafted.


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## Regal325 (Aug 5, 2005)

> Surely, if the company that they supply goes bust, they have ultimate responsibility but apparently don't want to exercise it.


Yes....if it had been in UK, could have contacted Trading Standards etc...but buying "on line" from someone in a different country, 6 or 700 miles away..is a lot of hassle when something goes wrong.


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

Regal325 said:


> > Surely, if the company that they supply goes bust, they have ultimate responsibility but apparently don't want to exercise it.
> 
> 
> Yes....if it had been in UK, could have contacted Trading Standards etc...but buying "on line" from someone in a different country, 6 or 700 miles away..is a lot of hassle when something goes wrong.
> ...


The only thing I can suggest is, if it is a fairly recent purchase, try one of the English companies and try to get them to return it. If it is an old, out of date model, this will not work.

Explain the circumstances ...... I know this sounds like clutching at straws but you never know, you might find a seller with a conscience.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Regal325 said:


> > Surely, if the company that they supply goes bust, they have ultimate responsibility but apparently don't want to exercise it.
> 
> 
> Yes....if it had been in UK, could have contacted Trading Standards etc...but buying "on line" from someone in a different country, 6 or 700 miles away..is a lot of hassle when something goes wrong.
> ...


I would not bother, you are flogging a dead horse, at least you learned a lesson and it wasn't a Â£100's lesson.









Get some satisfaction, take a big hammer and smash it into little pieces.


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## Roger (May 17, 2003)

> Get some satisfaction, take a big hammer and smash it into little pieces.


At least in my case...the movements are going to another forum member to "practice on"......

perhaps he can make a silk purse from a sows ear??

Roger


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

MarkF said:


> Regal325 said:
> 
> 
> > > Surely, if the company that they supply goes bust, they have ultimate responsibility but apparently don't want to exercise it.
> ...


Yes Mark ........... the gentle approach























Does make you feel better though


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

> At least in my case...the movements are going to another forum member to "practice on"......
> 
> perhaps he can make a silk purse from a sows ear??
> 
> Roger


You've done more than donating a couple of movements to another forum member.

You have highlighted a problem and viewers of this thread will be better able to make an informed choice because of it. (Remeber a lot of viewers, are not members and may be first time purchasers)

All too often we show all the nice watches we have but do not admit, openly, to having bought some crap.

Well done Roger ..........


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## Roger (May 17, 2003)

> but do not admit, openly, to having bought some crap.


I could do the same about some cars!!.....NONO...dont start me on that......


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

USEDMODEL said:


> ou've done more than donating a couple of movements to another forum member.
> 
> You have highlighted a problem and viewers of this thread will be better able to make an informed choice because of it. (Remeber a lot of viewers, are not members and may be first time purchasers)
> 
> ...


And lets not forget that Roger had given a non-Elysee owning member opportunity to take the piss.







Well done Roger









Now what about these cars..............


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

> I could do the same about some cars!!.....NONO...dont start me on that......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Two ideas for new threads ............in the last 10 minutes























Favourite pastimes
















Cars, I shouldn't have bought and why.

Over to you Roger


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Did I mention that I`m *very* happy with the three Elysee watches I `ve got, mind you I bought two new from Roy & I wouldn`t be supprised if my latest one originally came from him too


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## Regal325 (Aug 5, 2005)

Its good to see at least one satisfied customer ...



> mind you I bought two new from Roy


I note that he longer seems to offer them


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Regal325 said:


> Its good to see at least one satisfied customer ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I remember correctly he was having trouble getting stock from the company so he stopped having them


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## Mark_B (May 2, 2005)




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## Roger (May 17, 2003)

Mark,

I might still have one of the cases...there big and need a 24mm strap.

If I can find it, I will stick it in the envelope.

Roger


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## Mark_B (May 2, 2005)

That would be great. Thanks Roger.


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## marius (Mar 11, 2005)

Never too old to learn something. I think I have mentioned my grandmother before, she was 89 when she learnt to eat with one tooth. And of course, here, the great benefit of being able to learn from someone else's mistakes rather than your own.

I have looked at those on e-bay too, they look like very nice watches. Only reason I never got one, is the "German precision engineering" thing. I have three different Aeromatic's, one of which which I actually bought two, so four altogether, and not a single one did not require some adjustment to the precision engineering.

The first one is the style with the three little sub-dials, like you described, and it also dropped a small hand within days. I had it re-fitted, and it dropped it again a day later. I am planning to superglue it on as soon as I get really peeved off at something else. The seccond one is one of the large twin auto's. Two seperate movements next to each other in a single 55mm round case. The second hand on this one has not dropped off yet, but it acts like it is loose fitting on its spindle. I found out that it is actually sitting quite nicely on the spindle thank you, but the drive mechanism is supposedly some kind of "friction drive" and it slips just because of the massive inertia of the seconds hand, (it is just about 25mm long) and the fact that the precision engineering went for a ball. The other two have a regular seconds hand as well as two little fly-back hands, one going from 0 - 30 and the other then taking over to 60. It is very nice looking, semi-skeleton, and I like the mechanism of the flyback hands. I got peeved though the minute I fired it up and noticed that the precsion engineers did not bother to sincronise the regular seconds hand with the two fly-back hands. My brother is not into detail and watches at all, but that was the first thing he noticed too, on the one I gave him. It even peeved him off. That at least was a fairly easy fix. So out of three different models, one was "re-workable" to what it should have been in the first place. So much for precision engineering. What happened to precision assembly, and more importantly, quality assurance? If a watch with a single movement has two seconds indicators, I would have guessed sincronisation of the two indicators would be the first thing on the QA checklist. Obviously not put together by a watch person. Oh, I forgot to mention, they are all numbered, "limited edition" models.

One year warranty my but! Shipping charges to Germany is not covered by the warranty, and once you have bought a watch, waited three weeks for delivery, and had it in your hands, who wants to send it back and be without it for another 8 to 12 weeks?

Yes, they all run fine, but who buys a watch just for that?

Maybe someone can learn something from my mistake. (I shall let you know how the superglue worked!)


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## Roger (May 17, 2003)

The date-wheels actually broke on mine...



> (I shall let you know how the superglue worked!)


will probably need more than superglue....try a prayer


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## Mothman (Oct 11, 2005)

Attention Mark B

Trying to PM you with no luck. is your mailbox full?

Cheers

Richard


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## Mark_B (May 2, 2005)

Ooops yes it is !!!!!!










I'll have a clear out!!


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