# Delving Into Davosa



## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

This has been a nightmare of a topic as I changed my opinions on Davosa a number of times during the research and writing of drafts on Word. It all started with an advertisement for the new Davosa Argonautic Dual Time automatic diver watch and I will be speaking more about that watch later in the topic, but let's start where we should - at the beginning, but not at the very beginning because even I found the early history lesson of Davosa given on the company website a bit pointless. And please don't fret, there are a few pics to look at later.

The history we really need to know starts just after the Second World War - through which traumatic period Swiss watchmaker Paul Hasler continued to make watches, the family having started in this line of business back in the 1860's. In 1946 Paul Hasler (who died in 1977) was joined by his brother David hasler, to form "Hasler Freres". With the firm continuing to prosper, a third generation of Hasler brothers joined the business as joint partners in 1961, some years after David Hasler had passed away. Then, in 1964, Kurt Wittwer also joined the firm to become an important figure, supervising the creative, marketing, and commercial sides of the business as the company began to specialise in more complex mechanical pieces.

Hasler & Co SA as a company title did not become a legal entity until 1974 - a year which marks a high-point in the Swiss watch industry, just before the oil crisis and the rapid advance of quartz watches was to create a crisis period, during which the company continued but now included quartz watches in its product range.

And so, things continued in this vein until, in 1993, Hasler & Co SA started a collaboration with the German watch distributor Bohle GmbH, a firm that had been active in the German market since the 1960s. This collaboration took advantage of a resurgence in popularity of quality mechanical watches, especially in Germany, and led to the inaugeration of the DAVOSA brand name and a limited number of quality mechanical Swiss-made timepieces.

The collaboration between Hasler & Co. SA and Bohle GmbH flourished and more DAVOSA brand watches were produced. In 2000 Corinne Bohle took over the task of strategic brand development, and both marketing and distribution are now managed from Gerrmany - giving an impression, which I am still not clear about, that the company became German rather than Swiss. Anyway, back to the history, and 2002, when after new sources of specialized components had been found to "optimise" quality and the honing of new designs, the Davosa Panamerica series of watches was produced. Since then the company has continued with its watchmaking activities, but not in the idiosyncratic Swiss manner in which it had done prior to the links with Germany.

Indeed, it is true to say that recent watches produced by the company, which now trades as Schweiz, Hasler & Co SA Fabrique d'Horlogerie (based at Tramelan, Switzerland) have, according to certain watch reviews, been made - or even just assembled - using internationally sourced components, and the company is now thought of as being German rather than Swiss. For me, discovering this was a real disappointment because when I saw the advertisment for the Davos Argonautic which started my interest in this brand, I had really hoped that this was going to be a genuinely independent Swiss watch brand, without much resorting to outsourced components. And yes, I'm afraid that Swatch Group got to Davosa before me, with the mechanical movements used in Davosa watches coming from ETA, part of the Swatch Group empire. Please note that I am not going to get into an argument here about the Swatch Group - that will have to be the subject of another topic - and I also realise that there is considerable respect shown by collectors to certain ETA movements, and I am no technical boffin able to criticise ETA automatic movements from my own experience and knowledge. I suppose that I would just have liked the Davosa brand to use its own movements, but given the prices of their watches, this was pie in the sky.

In looking at the more recent watches produced by Davosa, I have some perspective on improvements or otherwise in their products from the period 2005 to the present. I have examined two reviews from 2005 - of the Davosa Pares Chronograph and the Davosa Outback Automatic - both written by a certain John, the Administrator of "The Wrist Watch Review", and I have also read and digested reviews of recent Davosa watches. These latest reviews are from 2013/2014 and are of the Davosa Vigo Dual-time Automatic and the Argonautic automatic as well as its more complex Dual Time version - the watch that started my interest in Davosa as a brand.

The 2005 reviews are necessarily contrasting in some ways since the two watches reviewed are very different. The Pares chrono reviewed is a large stainless steel-cased piece, essentially a pretty standard-looking chronograph multi-dial watch, and the model is still available with little change. In the model reviewed, the movement was an ETA-made Valjoux 7750, which the reviewer considered to be classy and in tests it lost about 10 seconds a day and held a 20 hour power reserve after a few days of heavy wearing. As for the Davosa Outback, also reviewed by John in 2005, this was a very large and heavy diver watch and John did not consider it to be world class, nor did he rate the movement particularly highly - a 2824-2 ETA with Glucydur balance and Incabloc shock absorber. He noted the odd feature of roughly knurled knob at the 9 o'clock position which turned out to be a bezel lock, but wasn't as impressed by the watch as he could have been, saying that it is "no beater. It is large, it is cluncky, and it is heavy. The crowns are carefully protected by two sloped case lugs and the unsigned band is attractive in an Indiana Jones sort of way. The scoring given by John on the watches for different aspects of each watch were either 3 or 4 out of 5.

Leaving aside a slight problem with the application of the lume on the reviewed Outback, the most worrying aspect of the two reviews from 2005 is the doubts expressed about the water resistance of both watches, especially the Pares chronograph. How could John call the Pares a "mid-priced chrono workhorse" and then suggest that the "estimated" 5 atm water resistance might be a bit much - "We could see washing dishes in the Pares but a dunk may do it in." And then there is the claimed 100 metres water resistance of the Outback diver, which again had a little bit of doubt associated with it in the review. This niggling doubt about the water resistant properties of Davosa watches immediately pushes us forward in time to their latest dive watch, the Argonautic.

In examining the new Argonautic, I did not want to lose sight of other recent Davosa watches and so I managed to procure a 2013 review of another, rather different Davosa model, the Vigo, which is a combination of dress watch and military/pilot style timepiece, with a thin bezel, slightly domed sapphire glass, ETA 2893 automatic GMT movement and display case back. This is a very nice looking watch and, ironically, like the Argonautic, it is available, as in the review, as a Dual Time model which essentially means that you have a fourth hand emanating from the centre of the dial that can be used to track a second time zone. The review of the Vigo describes the watch in such detail that photos seem barely necessary, but then, suddenly and worryingly, that old question of water resistance and basic strength are raised again, with the reviewer admitting that the watch is "not rugged, so I would avoid water or anything too active". OK, so the watch is basically given a good review but like all the Davosa reviews, the praise is given in view of the price of the watches, and here there is a problem because I believe that although the Davosa watches might seem to be good value, in the long run and with any hard use, that value could be a worthless attribute.

The Davosa Vigo Dual Time automatic (picture from isozaki-tokei.com):










So finally, let us look at the Argonautic. I personally prefer the dial of the Davosa Argonoautic Dual Time to that of its less complicated sibling, because if truth be told, I find that the plainer dial of the simpler watch is just a bit boring and over-dominated by the very large markers. The extra hand of the Dual Time model lends a little bit of additional interest to the watch. Also, interestingly, the Car Magazine advertisement of the Argonautic Dual Time shows the watch with a striped fabric strap rather than the more usual stainless steel bracelet, and it has to be said that the stainless steel strap of the watch has come in for some criticism as being of comparatively poor quality. The reviewer on Watch Freeks mentions a few issues with the steel bracelet, not least being the fact that it is a faux rather than a true five link bracelet, and the links are attached using friction pins as opposed to screws, without the use of half-links for better precision of fit.

The Davosa Argonautic Dual Time (picture from ocarat.com):










The Argonautic in both versions has a ceramic bezel with good unidirectional rotation, but there is no lume at all on the bezel, not even a lumed pip, which could be a nuisance in real use. In fact, the lume generally has come in for a bit of stick since Davosa have opted for C1 Superluminova instead of the whiter and brighter BGW9 compound which even in daylight would have added to the contrast between markers and dial by eliminating the green tinge. The stainless steel case of the watch measures 42 mm across and nearly 51 mm from lug to lug. There is a manual helium escape valve at the ten-o'clock position and the crown at the three-oclock position is a screw-down example with sloping case lug protectors. Power for the Argonautic Dual Time comes from an ETA 2893 (unlike the movement of its less complex brother which is an ETA 2824-2). The dial is matt black and is beneath an anti-reflective sapphire glass. The case back of the watch is a non-display back of fairly standard stainless steel screw-down form. Claimed water resistance is 300 metres or 33 atmospheres, but what I find amusing is that in the Car Magazine advertisement, it is not the depth in water that is the main boast - instead it is that the watch apparently made a safe journey up to over 35,000 metres and back. Anyway, back to the more mundane features of the watch, I can say that the various knobs and bezel of the watch are smooth in operation, with no play.

So there you have it, a bit of history and a few watches for you to consider from a company I had not heard of until I saw that advert in Car Magazine, and I am not even a great fan of diver watches. So what are my conclusions on the current crop of Davosa watches, including the Argonautic Dual Time automatic.

Firstly, everyone seems to agree that Davosa watches are very good value for money. The Argonautic Dual Time is currently on Amazon priced at Â£822.21, and Davosa chronograph watches go up to about Â£1,500. The quartz Davosa watches are obviously considerably cheaper than their automatic counterparts and Davosa produce quite a range of quartz watches. Davosa seem to major on men's watches and Amazon has no women's Davosa watches on offer. If I have to be honest, and I have been in the title of my topic, I do feel that "dreary" is the term I would use for Davosa watches in general, and even more so in the case of their diver and diver-style watches. They are just uninspiring, or is it the case that I have been blown away by the some absolutely amazing Seiko diver watches that have been posted on the Watch Forum?

The reviews all point to Davosa watches being of pretty good quality but not up there with the best, and to me, this is a worry, even if they are cheaper than the upper echelon of watches. The point is that if you are spending Â£800 odd pounds for an Argonautic Dual Time diver then that is still a considerable amount of money, and if you are buying a dive watch for actual use diving in the water, just how well will that claimed 300 metres water resistance stand up to genuine punishment? If I had to rely on a diver's watch then a Davosa just wouldn't be my choice. Instead I would choose another brand for genuine diving or rugged use, even if that meant spending more. And the odd thing is, I have a feeling that I could probably buy something more rugged and waterproof, and better looking, for less, or at least not much more. If I wanted something from Davosa as an example of the brand, then I would go for a more classic and simple model and I wouldn't be ashamed if that was powered by a quartz movement.

I have noticed in researching this topic that there doesn't seem to have been the sort of improvement that one would hope for in a company's products between 2005 and 2014, and if a company has a long Swiss heritage stretching back to the 19th century and still proudly emblazons its watches with the term "Swiss Made" on its face - with the word "SWISS" actually placed twice on the Argonautic Dual Time dial - then I expect something a bit special, and no Davosa watch I have yet seen is special enough to really get me going.

Looking at many images of Davosa watches, I have chosen my personal favourite, making a change from the pilot and diver styles so far pictured but more my kind of thing - I'd have to remember not to dunk it in the dishwater though:

The Davosa Classic mecanique - from WA Today, Ten Best watches under $1000, 3 march 2013:


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

A GMT watch with a stock ETA movement is good value at Â£822 .... really? Believe me, not "everyone" would agree with that....


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Steinhart GMTs range from around â‚¬420-490 (Â£340-396). They use a base calibre ETA Unitas 6497-1 movement...modified in house I believe. I can't put up a link, but google Steinhart watches and go direct to their site for more info....


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

> I'm afraid that Swatch Group got to Davosa before me, with the mechanical movements used in Davosa watches coming from ETA, part of the Swatch Group empire. Please note that I am not going to get into an argument here about the Swatch Group - that will have to be the subject of another topic - and I also realise that there is considerable respect shown by collectors to certain ETA movements, and I am no technical boffin able to criticise ETA automatic movements from my own experience and knowledge. I suppose that I would just have liked the Davosa brand to use its own movements, but given the prices of their watches, this was pie in the sky


I still don't think you quite realise what happened to the watch industry over the period that cheap quartz watches almost destroyed the whole mechanical watch industry. Hundreds of good watch companies went to the wall, hundreds of them. ... Later on when the demand for mechanical watches went through a resurgence, many of those watch company names were bought up by various people who then started marketing watches again. Most of these weren't watchmakers, just marketing people who had absolutely no ability to produce a watch movement and had to buy them in from various sources, Japan, China and of course Swatch who own ETA.

Swatch didn't "get " to Davosa, Davosa bought ETA movements from Swatch as they were one of the very few established Swiss Ã©bauche manufacturers still on the market and Davosa were unable to make their own. Swatch policy regarding supplying other companies is currently under review, it's interesting to see that very few of the modern companies are actually starting to produce their own in response and the watch industry may soon be going through another hiatus !

Whether you like it or not, the history of watches and those who make them is about the movements inside them, not just the superficiality of their appearance or marketing hype, which really tell you nothing..


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Dear artistmike

This is a very difficult issue and one which I really want to discuss in detail in a future topic - perhaps one concerning the Swatch Group as its major focus. I have to say the following points in a formal manner but without rancour to you personally  so that I don't lose what I really want to say in opposition to certain things you say in your interesting post.

The first thing you must understand is that I do quite understand the hiatus caused to the mechanical watch industry when the wave of cheap quartz watches almost drowned out mechanical watches altogether, and if you read my Davosa article carefully, you will see a reference to these problems which beset the industry after about 1974. When I said in my topic that,"I'm afraid that Swatch Group got to Davosa before me", this was meant to be a slight jest on the fact that ETA watch movements are now very predominant in mechanical watches from all sorts of brands, and if you read my topic carefully, you will see that I ensure that I do not disrespect ETA mechanical movements, and I admit that I am not technically qualified to criticise modern automatic watch movements.

So far so good - I am just a bit annoyed with you for being a bit patronising about my knowledge of the modern watch industry. However, my annoyance turns to real irritation when you basically condemn collectors to only consider the movements inside their watches and ignore the "superficiality of their appearance and marketing hype, which really tell you nothing." I'm sorry artistmike, but I have never heard such nonsense in my life when it comes to collecting, and not just watches. This sort of attitude you put forward is pure snobbery and I do not believe for a moment that most watch collectors do not take the appearance of their watches into account when choosing them. The marketing hype you mention is just as prevalent in the prestige watches of high quality as it is in the cheaper watches that I might buy - in fact, there is more marketing hype revealed in some of the car-related Swiss-made mechanical chronographs than there is in a humble Sekonda wrist watch.

What is actually quite hurtful is that a number of my topics, which I have spent a great deal of time and energy on, for the benefit of fellow members, concern companies that are fashion-led rather than watch-movement-led, and for heavens sake, why can't we have a bit of fun and fashion in our lives. Yes, there is a lot of marketing hype in the fashion world, and I am the first to spot a load of hype when I see it. But some of the watches produced by fashion-led companies are actually pretty good and look very nice indeed on the wrist, and the hype doesn't always spread down to the watches. If I was to give a name of a company where quartz watches have gone hand-in-hand with genuinely good design, then I would say "Storm".

I think my final complaint about your post is this constant criticism of quartz watches, when people on lower incomes cannot afford to buy mechanical examples. There is nothing wrong with quartz movements per se, and if we held back electronic progress then some of the greatest advances in science and technology would never have occurred, and that includes medicine and the saving of lives. I know that it was a tragedy for the mechanical watch industry when quartz watches started to dominate the market, and I feel that tragedy viscerally when I collect watches, but let's have a bit of perspective here. The quartz revolution enabled watches of all colours and types to be made cheaply for the general public to enjoy - and don't forget that Swatch was in the forefront of that quartz revolution. And now, many of these watches are collectible, and there is no reason why someone like myself should be pilloried for collecting and enjoying the populist and fashion-led watches produced since quartz watches came on the market. No! No! No! I am not going to be made to feel ashamed of that I like mechanical watches and I like quartz watches, and I study them both - neither have escaped the problems associated with the general loss of the paradise of independent watchmaking firms designing, making and marketing their own idiosyncratic pieces, using their own movements, and components most of which they have manufactured themselves. How many people can afford the ultimate luxury of acquiring such watches?

Sorry if I sound a bit forceful dear artistmike, but this is something I feel very strongly about, having collected, researched and written about various different things all through my life from my teenage years - many of which would have been used by the less wealthy sections of society.


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

I'll just make one point in response to that little lot.. 



> I think my final complaint about your post is this constant criticism of quartz watches, etc etc etc.


This sentence of yours really goes to show that you don't actually ever read my posts nor bother to look at any watches that I post.. Just to put that little matter right I'm posting just four of mine below, all quartz.... and I have many others that I have posted on the forum.... You must learn to read other's posts as well as expecting them to read yours.  Oh and one other thing, you need to differentiate between companies that make watches and companies that buy them in from OEM manufacturers and then have their brand stamped on them.... This practice doesn't make them watch manufacturers by any stretch of the imagination... 





































Oh, and I also have a collection of G-Shocks..... Quartz, as you may know...


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## Guest (May 27, 2014)

Without really getting involved in any controversy here I think the point Mike is trying to make is for many watch collectors the look of a watch is only part of the appeal. What matters is what has gone into the watch, the time and effort to actually build the watch and create something unique. This is not something that requires a great deal of money as there are many collectors here who have collected a variety of watches on a budget and you only need look at vintage watches, Chinese and Russian watches to see you don't need to break the bank to get a watch that is at least something a little different from the norm, has an in house movement and is from an independent watch maker.

Many of us also have a high regard for quartz and certainly appreciate some of the high end quartz watches and also the likes of G Shock and other robust watches, Citizen eco drive, Seiko quartz, CWC, Pulsar G10 the list is endless.

But just to give an idea of some mechanical watches that come in at under Â£50 (Depending on the watch you want) Vostok, Zarya, Slavya, Raketa. A Seiko 5 can be found for Â£50 - Â£60 you can get a Seagull for under Â£100. You can get vintage Roamer watches for Â£50 or Â£60 or a HMT for Â£15 There are tons of vintage Seiko's, Citizen and many old Swiss watches for Â£50 - Â£100 Just because its not mass produced fashion brand doesn't mean its going to cost several thousand pounds.


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## AVO (Nov 18, 2012)

Some interesting points raised in all of the above, but I'd just like to add a couple of things...

1. Quartz "revolution/crisis"?

AW is right in asserting that the advent of quartz brought more and different watch types within reach of the less exalted budget, but this didn't happen immediately. Manufacturers emblazoned the word "Quartz" on their dials as a badge of pride and modernity (don't do it now, do they?) and initially prices were quite high. I well remember being allowed to blow my first ever summer-job wage packet on a watch that looked a bit like this...










I had a perfectly good mechanical watch, but that was "old-tech" to quote Philip Reeve, and suddenly no-one wanted the silly old tickers like Grandad wore! I gave it to a cousin who either had more sense or less money than I. From checking my watch daily by the radio pips and being happy if it was within a half-minute, I went to annoying my parents by ringing TIM several times a day to ascertain that my new marvel was still on the right second! (I have since come full circle on that one :lol: ) And so for 30 years I regarded quartz as the norm. I bought a heavily discounted Omega (quartz, still have it) but I honestly never gave a thought to "old-tech" until I fell in love with a vintage Omega in 2008. Which brings me to the other point...

2. Collecting on a budget: to my mind there are no rights or wrongs here - you collect to your tastes and budget, and not to satisfy someone else's notion of what is "pure" or correct. In my six years of collecting I have discovered that I am not drawn to black dials, dive watches, fliegers and automatics generally. I am pretty indifferent to quartz, though I have acquired a couple recently because I liked them and mechanical versions were not available. Actually I prefer quartz to automatic.

My collection proper, "the vintage stuff" has focused mainly on pre-1970 hand-wound "dress" watches. I was quite indiscriminate at first and did the flea-markets and charity shops on a regular basis. I began to discover that by buying less frequently and from specialist sellers (at higher prices, true) I was focusing my tastes and acquiring watches that gave greater satisfaction and became "keepers". My budget isn't radically different, I just spend it in a different way and that (for me) is right. A number of my friends are now selling off the "mid-range" stuff like mine in favour of acquiring a very small number of high-quality "grails". At the moment that is as appealing to me as my early approach, so I'm happy where I am.

I endorse Robert75's very valid point that some delightful and excellent "old-tech" watches can be had quite cheaply if you steer clear of the famous names that command a premium.

Oh, and back to quartz...that "expensive" Nepro was knackered after about 3 years. Ironic, isn't it, that last year I acquired this piece that had been sold by that same local jeweller 10 years before I bought the quartz watch there?










Apologies for going a bit off-topic, but I thought the points worth making. And please note that in stating what I DON'T like, I am not criticising the tastes of those who do. It's a personal journey.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Right.....a bit of levity is required here.....everyone involved in this thread....don't take offence, but in the words of the great Dave Lamb on 'Come Dine With me'..........

*.......TAXI!........*


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## Will Fly (Apr 10, 2012)

From AVO: "some delightful and excellent "old-tech" watches can be had quite cheaply if you steer clear of the famous names that command a premium."

That's exactly where I'm coming from! I just picked up a very elegant and simple 1960s Bucherer - classic dial and very nice movement, and keeping excellent time. For just Â£26. That can't be bad! And, like AVO, I might well cash it in later, along with some other similar cost ones, for something a bit tasty. Here's a pic of the Bucherer:


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## bridgeman (Dec 9, 2008)

Will Fly said:


> From AVO: "some delightful and excellent "old-tech" watches can be had quite cheaply if you steer clear of the famous names that command a premium."
> 
> That's exactly where I'm coming from! I just picked up a very elegant and simple 1960s Bucherer - classic dial and very nice movement, and keeping excellent time. For just Â£26. That can't be bad! And, like AVO, I might well cash it in later, along with some other similar cost ones, for something a bit tasty. Here's a pic of the Bucherer:


Is the movement in house? I can't place it. That must be a steal!


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## Will Fly (Apr 10, 2012)

I think it's in-house, though I wouldn't swear to it as its unsigned... It's not like any of the others of the 30-odd watches in my collection. It's very slim. The quality of the bridging and the jewelling seems OK to me, but I'd be grateful for other comments...

I've also been looking at the bridge modelling around the click, which looks a little unusual. Whatever... the price suited me!


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## seemore (Oct 25, 2007)

I think the movement in that Bucherer is a Peseux 7010 they went into quite a few quality watches.


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## Will Fly (Apr 10, 2012)

Thanks Seemore - it does indeed look like a Peseux 7010 - which I haven't seen many of, to be honest.

Later...

Just downloaded the Peseux 7010 technical spec. sheets from Cousins - which confirms your diagnosis!


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## luckywatch (Feb 2, 2013)

Â£26. That is a steal. :yes:


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## Jeremy Fisher (Jan 28, 2012)

Will Fly said:


> Thanks Seemore - it does indeed look like a Peseux 7010 - which I haven't seen many of, to be honest.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Just downloaded the Peseux 7010 technical spec. sheets from Cousins - which confirms your diagnosis!


The 7010's near identical brother, the 7001, used to be used in Nomos watches before they developed in house ones (and some say it continues to be the blueprint for Nomos movements). Stowa uses it in some of their manual wind watches and so do Junghans. It certainly seems to be very popular with the Germans...


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

The 7010 I've seen used by Zenith too but that 7001 in the Junghans looks like a pretty little movement, does anyone know what rate it runs at?


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## Jeremy Fisher (Jan 28, 2012)

artistmike said:


> The 7010 I've seen used by Zenith too but that 7001 in the Junghans looks like a pretty little movement, does anyone know what rate it runs at?


21600 bph


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

I see that everyone has gone to sleep with regard to my argument with artistmike over the way we both approach the collecting of and looking at watches. I will just make one more criticism, this time of artismike's second go at me, because the more patronising elements in it are, once again, completely is untrue. I have always made a distinction between companies that MAKE watches and companies that PRODUCE watches as part of their brand image. Indeed, I feel that it is you who have not been reading my posts just as I have failed to spot your posts where quartz watches were featured (for which I do apologise). I believe that this process of buying-in components from different companies has probably gone on since the beginning of watchmaking history and I know the difference between ASSEMBLING a watch, DESIGNING a watch and actually MANUFACTURING a watch. I just will not be patronised like this - it just isn't "cricket." 

I will be absolutely honest here and admit when I said that I am fed up with attacks on quartz watches, I was not really at that point criticising you, dear artistmike. I was just exasperated at the end of my post and I have to say, it is true that watches like quartz Sekondas and Limits would barely get a look in on the Forum if I didn't mention them, and also the cheaper watches that are designed to reflect current fashion, and fashion company watch designs, would also be hardly mentioned, and yet the history of some of these companies is fascinating, even if they don't actually MANUFACTURE their watches in-house. May I just add that Roy at RLT sells a number of quartz Sekondas on the RLT website, so they can't be all bad, which of course they aren't. I suppose I do feel that cheaper new quartz watches are not given their due on the Forum, and yes, I do agree that there are some cheaper and sometimes very nice mechanical examples out there - don't forget, dear artistmike, that I actually wrote a lengthy topic on the history of HMT not long ago!

So there you have it. I have PM'd a friendly note to you dear artistmike, and the main point is that our two very different ways of approaching watches and watch collecting can both be accomodated here on the Forum with a sense of cooperation rather than aggravation and argument. I respect your knowledge and I believe that you could respect mine - so what if we both major in different areas of watch collecting. And when we do meet in the middle, things can be great - I remember the fantastic help you gave me when I was faced with buying an Omega deVille. :yes:

So I swallow my pride and offer you my hand in friendship - which is surely what this Forum should be about; oh, and watches of course.


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## Rustynuts (Jan 5, 2016)

I too have had my fair share of quartz watches, and considered the accuracy and convenience to be the modern way to go. I subsequently revived my interest in mechanical watches, and also now have a houseful of ticking clocks. I have just ordered a Davosa Ternos Diver 40mm. to wear when I'm going to places where I don't want to be wearing any of my more valuable watches, and I wanted something of reasonable quality. The Davosa website certainly leads you to believe that, against all the odds, this company is a survivor, what's more still making its own movements, as it nowhere says they ever stopped. I Knew this couldn't be true, so I've ended up here. Since, as we all know, 60% of the components of a watch marketed as Swiss Made, have to be just that, it remains for me to discover which ETA, or for that matter perhaps Sellita, or even the new Ronda, is inside making the hands turn.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Rustynuts said:


> Since﻿,﻿ as we all know, 60% of the components of a watch marketed as Swiss Made, have to be just﻿ that, it remains for me to discover which ETA, or for that matter perhaps Sellita, or even﻿﻿ ﻿﻿﻿﻿the new Ronda, is inside making the hands turn.﻿﻿


 According to "The Wristwatch Review"

"The hacking and hand-winding movement is an automatic DAV2824, which is their version of the tried and true ETA 2824 movement."


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Two points on this .... Swatch policy may be under review but in 2 years time , they will no longer be forced to supply movements to competitors. For luxury watches this will mean more in house movements .... Which is a good thing , since a lot of IWC watches for instance at the price they charge , should really have an in-house , not an ETA-based movement. For quartz lower end quartz ( sub £1000 ) it won't really mean anything because the movements are so cheap anyway and Seiko can just up their game to supply.
> 
> Regards the History bit.... for sub £1000 quartz watches , the vast majority of buyers do not buy for the movement , nor really care about it.


 You're seriously quoting a post from 2014 whilst talking about current policies? ..... :biggrin:

As to " for sub £1000 quartz watches , the vast majority of buyers do not buy for the movement , nor really care about it. " could you quote your source for yet another of your apocryphal statements ... and this time something other some 'friend' or 'AD' that you've apparently chatted to.... :yes:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

After digging about a bit, some say that the main mod to the ETA movement is a rotor change.


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## russelk (Nov 14, 2017)

artistmike said:


> As to " for sub £1000 quartz watches , the vast majority of buyers do not buy for the movement , nor really care about it. " could you quote your source for yet another of your apocryphal statements ... and this time something other some 'friend' or 'AD' that you've apparently chatted to.... :yes:


 I don't know if I'm in the minority or the majority, but personally I don't really care about the movement in a watch. I have no idea what movement is in my Omega or my Breitling, or my cheap Seikos. Is there anything wrong with simply taking pleasure in the "superficiality of their appearance"?


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

russelk said:


> Is there﻿﻿ anything wrong with simply taking pleasure in﻿﻿ the﻿﻿ "superficiality of their appearance"?


 Not really. And I don't subscribe to the "in-house is better" argument either.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> n house﻿﻿ certainly is better than..... nothing. Which is what some manufacturers could have been left wit﻿h pos﻿t 202﻿0﻿


 Sellita.


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

russelk said:


> I don't know if I'm in the minority or the majority, but personally I don't really care about the movement in a watch. I have no idea what movement is in my Omega or my Breitling, or my cheap Seikos. Is there anything wrong with simply taking pleasure in the "superficiality of their appearance"?


 Of course there isn't, but don't be surprised when you're on a watch forum that there are those who delve a little deeper, as some have a real interest in watches, which inevitably means the movement within, which is really what the watch is about ...  ...



JonnyOldBoy said:


> love this picture of you getting your first human contact in quite a while .... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


 I thought not, as usual just hot air and baseless assertions that you have an inability to justify... :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> . Or was﻿ th﻿at Sel﻿etar﻿....﻿ ?


 Alka seltzer.


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