# Watch Confusion - Please Help



## jhclare (Aug 31, 2012)

Hi all,

My first post proper to this forum!

I've worn a watch for as long as I can remember. However, it is only in the last couple of years that I've discovered the delights of mechanical watches!

In my 20s and early 30s I wore fashion watches such as Diesel and Storm. I liked the quirkiness of the designs but found the size/thickness too much.

My first automatic was a Seiko 5 dress watch, then the black pilot style. I liked them both, but didn't love them, finding them a bit too small.

While watching an episode of Heroes, I noticed that the villain Sylar had a nice looking watch and I decided to find out what it was. Turns out it was a customised Hamilton Khaki Field mechanical, 38mm. It took a while to track one down, but Jomashop had them (although with the beige strap).

I also liked the look of the Hamilton Khaki field automatic 38mm H70455863, so bought one. This one has painted white hands, which I find far easier to read than the ones with the shiny reflective hands/red tipped second hand.

Here are some pics:

https://dl.dropbox.c...hanical%201.JPG

https://dl.dropbox.c...hanical%202.JPG

https://dl.dropbox.c...%20Auto%201.JPG

https://dl.dropbox.c...%20Auto%202.JPG

Right. Here are some random thoughts.

1) I do like the Khakis, but fear they are too small for me. It's been bugging me for weeks. Now, my wrist is fairly small in comparison to the rest of my arm/general build (6.75 inches) Should I be looking at 40mm or 42mm? I don't like oversize watches. One thing that annoys me with the Khakis is that on the bigger sizes the date window floats too near the centre and looks unbalanced. And, I'm not even sure they need a date window, actual military watches don't!

Saying that, are the original field watches that the kahkis are based on 38mm or smaller?

I replaced both straps with military style from http://www.watchworx.co.uk.

The mechanical looks more stealthy being very black and matt. The Auto has a dark brown face and the overall look is very "Indiana Jones".

Trouble is, I don't know if either watch is "me".

2) I don't like Divers, Chronos or anything loud and/or bling or obvious status symbol watches. I'm not a "look at me! type of person. I like simple faces, interesting, classic hands, and preferably no date window. If the watch has to have a date window, I want it to match the watch face colour, be at six 'clock, and not cut off any numbers! I don't need to know the day.

3) I think I need some kind of do-it-all dress watch such as the Hamilton Jazzmaster or similar. I don't like the Tissot Visodate as it has a day/date, but do like that style.

I want a watch that can be worn with both dress attire and smart/casual, yet not be so dressy to look silly with casual clothes. I like the Hamilton Jazzmaster range as they are classic yet they look a bit quirky/different.

I've looked at Laco Marine and Stowa Marines and again, beautiful watches, but not sure they're "me".

I've looked at the German pilot style watches but again, not sure they are me and I'm not sure I like the bombing associations.

I like the idea of vintage watches - I certainly like the style but again feel they would be too small for me.

I suppose I've decided to be a one-watch guy! Famous last words...

4) About me: I'm in my late 30s, I'm a freelance photographer (although you wouldn't think so from my pics). I don't have to dress up for work very often. I'm quite into "retro" stuff. Mad Men, fixed gear steel bikes, Ray Ban Wayfarers, traditional wet shaving, single malts. I listen to BBC 6 music and was a big John Peel fan.

So people, if I sell both of my Khakis, I'll have around Â£450 to spend - what do you recommend? Or do you think I should keep the khakis?

Many thanks,

John


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## jhclare (Aug 31, 2012)

I should mention also - I can't decide between white/light or black face. I plan on buying a couple of after-market straps, maybe black, dark brown, and tan. Is a black face more limiting?

I like that on the Hamilton Auto the seconds and minute hands reach all the way to the markers, in comparison the mechanical's hands look too short!

This stuff I never used to notice, but really do now! 

John


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## rovert (Aug 2, 2012)

Hi John,

Age wise I'm at the other end of the spectrum however I do like clean face understated mechanical watches . I also am limited to max 40mm diameter.

Suggest you have a look at our sponsors watches & also Speedbird III . My favourite in my small collection is an IWC Mark XV & the Speedbird is very similar to it but at an affordable price. I intend to get one when I can afford another watch & have a black leather band with deployment buckle on it as an alternative.

Good luck with your search.I'm sure you'll get some informed advice & suggestions from other menbers.

Cheers,

Rovert.


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## jhclare (Aug 31, 2012)

Hi Rovert,

Thanks for the suggestion.

I like the general look of the watch you mentioned, very nice. However a couple of things are deal-breakers for me: The blocky hour hand, and the date window. Also, at 39mm I fear it may still be too small for me.

Keep the suggestions coming! 

John


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## itsguy (Nov 16, 2009)

Photographers and watches, that always goes together. You've clearly done your research, though it's a tricky brief. The best do-it-all watch probably deserves it's own thread. There are plenty of candidates, but most will bust the budget. You're likely looking for used, but recent to keep the size up, yet with a classic feel. Probably a bracelet watch that can double as smart with a suit or casually smart / sporty without, and will allow a dip in the sea or even a snorkel, without straying into diving territory. Vintage Rolex Oysters are the template for that kind of flexibility, and don't have the 'showy' feel of modern ones, but for obviously reasons this won't fit the brief.

My nearest, and a favorite do-it-all watch, is an older model Omega seamster 150m quartz - sorry about the dodgy picture, which is not particularly flattering, it's much better in the metal. This kind of watch works anywhere and with anything, and is 39mm but wears more like 42mm as there's a lot of dial. Still over budget, and with a (subtle) date at 3pm, but perhaps moving in the right direction?

Perhaps try a Frederique Constant Clear Vision automatic? That might be closer to the budget if you could find one used.


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## Jeremy Fisher (Jan 28, 2012)

For me, 34-38mm is the ideal range for smarter/dressy watches. This trend for large watches is a very new thing, if your wrist is under 7 inches, it would defiantly be the classier decision to stick to the smaller Khakis. Dress watches should be small/thin enough to slip under your shirt cuff.

If on the other-hand, you want something sporty/more casual/more "trendy" look, then 40mm or 42mm is not too big for you. Watches are getting bigger and bigger, Hamilton for example has stopped making 38mm Khakis and have made their 42mm model the standard. 40mm + has basically become the norm for most watch brands.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it all falls down to what you want, something more understated and classically sized or something modern and sporty.

If I were you, I would keep one the khakis as a versatile everyday watch and buy a vintage gold watch as a dress watch for formal occasions.


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## jhclare (Aug 31, 2012)

Thanks guys for your replies.

The Omega looks very nice, but I don't like the minute hand (I tell you, I've become very picky!)

Something I forgot to mention - I really don't like bracelets.

Ok, this is looking more like it.... anyone here have one?

http://hamiltonwatch.com/gents/american-classic/timeless-classic/valiant-auto/H39515753

John


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## jhclare (Aug 31, 2012)

Another variant on the Valiant:

http://hamiltonwatch.com/en/gents/american-classic/jazzmaster/valiant/H39515754

I'm undecided on whether or not I like Roman numerals....


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## shadowninja (Apr 14, 2009)

Could buy some sub-Â£100 watches to help decide what you prefer. Look towards Seiko or anything from Argos! You can flip them and get something better once you've decided... because we only need one watch. :lol:


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2012)

What about a Tissot le Locle? No date (As far as I can remember) And a reasonable price. A cheaper option could be a Seagull dress watch. Simple and costs half what a Tissot does. Laco are mostly using Citizen movements for their cheaper ones (If that bothers you) The ETA ones are a lot more expensive.

The other option is a Longines Conquest watch. Cant really beat a Longines.


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## jhclare (Aug 31, 2012)

Thanks again everyone for your suggestions.

I have pulled the trigger on the Silver dialled Hamilton Valiant. Ticks nearly every box for me:

- Clean dial

- Long hands

- Excellent dial contrast

- Sweet spot size wise

- Classic yet modern and a little bit quirky

Can't wait to receive it!

I was sent the black dialled version by mistake and promptly returned it.... the date window being white stood out like a beacon and the numerals and hands were shiny reflective and very hard to read, unless they are angled so they reflect a light source or an area of white (sorry, the photographer in me coming out).

This raises another pet hate of mine - shiny hands with black dial - almost impossible to read!

I shall post pics when I receive the Silver one.

Have a great weekend everyone.

John


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## jhclare (Aug 31, 2012)

Hi all,

Since I started this thread I've been on a long and confusing quest to find the perfect watch.

I still haven't quite found what I'm looking for!









Below are previous watches I've owned, and the reason I no longer have them:



*Seiko 5 pilot* : Lovely little watch for the money, and was my first mechanical. I found the dial too busy, it was slightly too small for me (6.75" wrists) and I disliked the "5" logo


*Seiko 5 SNXS73K* : Great looking dress watch but again, too small at 36mm


*Hamilton Jazzmaster Viewmatic (40mm)*: Too big, too deep. Seemed unsure whether it was dress or casual and didn't really work as either, in my opinion.


*Tissot Visodate*: Love retro stuff, but this failed to move me. Seemed a bit "cold" in spite of retro touches. Case quite deep, and large at 40mm, but face was a nice size. Hands seemed way too short.


*Tissot Le Locle*: Very nice watch for the money. However, it was a bit too "old" for me (I'm 39) and didn't really feel "me". I'm unsure if I like Roman numerals


*Hamilton Valiant: *The dial didn't agree with me after all, the minute track was a bit thick and the day window was too close to the "3"


*Hamilton Khaki Field Mechanical 38mm*: Now this was a great everyday watch, and I loved the hand wind aspect and also the thin case. Not sure why I sold it, maybe I found the dial a bit busy, and maybe it was a bit too casual


*Hamilton Khaki Field Auto 38mm*: Same as above, liked it but a bit too casual for me (I dress smart casual most days). Not sure military watches are "me"


*Orient Bambino (white and black versions)*: Love the domed crystal and retro style, but wore very large at 40mm


*Hamilton Thin-o-matic 38mm:* I liked this one, but something wasn't quite right. The date window clashing with the "3" perhaps? Lovely size though.


*Seiko SARB031*: Smaller version of the Bambino with a nicer movement. Trouble is, this looks too small on me, and is a bit too dressy for every day wear.


*Rodina "Nomos" clone:* A bit "blah". I like Bauhaus and minimalism, but this seems too boring to me, in spite of the blued hands and seconds sub-dial. Case is also very clunky, and it wears very large for 38mm. My first watch with seconds subdial - always wanted one, now not sure I like them.


*Laco Vintage 38mm* : Too dressy, too blingy, unreadable (silver on silver). I do like domed crystal though.


So, some things I've learned:


My perfect size is around 37-39mm depending on the style of watch

I don't want too dressy, or too casual

I don't like divers or chronos, or bracelets. Too common, and I find them cheesy, especially with a suit, but that's another thread (







)

I don't like unnecessary wording on the dial. "Sports", "Automatic" and "Intra-matic" on same dial, etc

I don't like badly positioned day windows or cut off numerals

I don't think white faces are for me (too conservative?)

I don't think pilots are for me (too tool-y) and not sure I like the bomber associations

I find polished silver hands on black face hard to read, white on black much better

I don't want anything cartoonish (Mondaine)

I don't like gold or rose-gold


So.....

Here's a few watches I've looked at that seem right, but just aren't:



*Black Stowa Antea KS* - Way over budget, too long a wait, too small at 35mm


*Max Bill Auto* - Over budget, black Auto has white date wheel which spoils the symmetry, odd lozenge shape, and wears very large for 38mm


*Aristo Aristocrat* - Right price and size, but white dial, and maybe too similar to Seiko SARB 031. Maybe too dressy for everyday.


*Steinhart Marine 38* - Now I like this one a lot, to look at and appreciate, but not sure it's quite "me"


I've recently been quite attracted to the one-handed watches, specifically black dial Botta UNO, but unfortunately the Auto version I like has a date window, the one I like is Quartz!

So, before I waste even more hours scouring the internet, I would love some suggestions from you wonderful people. I'm sure there are lots of brands I have missed.

My budget is around Â£400.

Thanks guys!


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

There's got to be something in here.......


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## apm101 (Jun 4, 2011)

Oris BC3?

RTL 70?


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## Drum2000 (Apr 2, 2010)

Shouldn't be too much of a problem finding something - you've ruled out most things!


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## RTM Boy (Jun 1, 2011)

Ooo, er... I'm almost thinking you should bite the bullet and go on a watchmaking course and build your own!

Given your budget you've discounted the obvious Tissots and Hamiltons and even the Seiko 5s, which as such good value. Are you sure there are none you like - there are sooooo many different ones? Likewise with Steinharts. If you're looking for a new Swiss automatic, there's very little below Â£400. With your criteria, my only thought might be something rarer like an Alfex 9010.306 http://www.alfex.com/en/68/default.aspx?idProduct=497&idV=689


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## jhclare (Aug 31, 2012)

apm101 said:


> Oris BC3?
> 
> RTL 70?


Thanks for suggestions but they're completely off - BC3 is way over budget and quite tool-y, and RTL 70 is a diver and is 44mm!

John


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## jhclare (Aug 31, 2012)

Drum2000 said:


> Shouldn't be too much of a problem finding something - you've ruled out most things!


LOL - I know! I'm getting to really know what I like and dislike. I fear that my ideal watch doesn't actually exist, at least within budget.


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

jhclare said:


> LOL - I know! I'm getting to really know what I like and dislike. I fear that my ideal watch doesn't actually exist, at least within budget.


To be honest, that's why we all end up with so many. It's never possible to find one watch that covers everything, so you'll just have to start collecting ones that suit different occasions, like we do. ...


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## jhclare (Aug 31, 2012)

Ok, so I've done some more digging. Here are a couple more contenders:


Archemede Klassik 39 in black. I fear the polished hands would "disappear" into the black dial.

Orient Star Classic WZ0231EL . Has the retro style I like in a nice size (in between the SARB031 and the Bambino). Apparently the hands are half-matt along their length, so should improve readability against the black dial


I think the Orient could look really nice (and not too dressy) with a tan/cherry leather strap, what you guys think?

John


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## jhclare (Aug 31, 2012)

RTM Boy said:


> Ooo, er... I'm almost thinking you should bite the bullet and go on a watchmaking course and build your own!
> 
> Given your budget you've discounted the obvious Tissots and Hamiltons and even the Seiko 5s, which as such good value. Are you sure there are none you like - there are sooooo many different ones? Likewise with Steinharts. If you're looking for a new Swiss automatic, there's very little below Â£400. With your criteria, my only thought might be something rarer like an Alfex 9010.306 http://www.alfex.com...uct=497&idV=689


Thanks for the suggestions.

This is why I love these forums - I've never even heard of Alfex. Thanks for that! I'll take a closer look.

The Seiko 5s are nice, and great starter watches, but I think I could do better with the budget I have in mind.

I "almost" like a lot of their designs, by they tend to have quite cluttered dials - "Seiko", "5", "Automatic", "21 jewels" and my pet hate - "Sports". Then you have the day and date intruding into the dial too. Arrgrggh, too much! ;-)

John


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## jhclare (Aug 31, 2012)

An update!

I ordered another Khaki Field mechanical for nostalgia reasons, and after seeing it again, decided it was not quite "me" and returned it. Too casual and wears quite small for a 38mm.

After seeing more pics of the Visodate on here and elsewhere, I decided I liked the watch after all, and I purchased another. I have finally got a good one: seems to be +8 a day which is far better than the +20 ones I had!

I almost got one of of the vintage style Orients. I love their domed crystals, but I think they are too dressy for everyday smart/casual wear (particularly the WZ0011DG without the date), and I'm not sure about the appearance of the power reserve complication on the WZ0251EL.

One thing that I've noticed about the Visodate: it wears smaller than its 40mm diameter case would suggest. Because of the unusual case design, it's only 40mm about 3/4 of the way down. At the face end, it looks like a 38mm watch.

I really like the size of this one - wears much smaller than the Bambino, and yet has more presence than the SARB 031 without screaming "look at me". Looks great on my 6.75 inch wrists (and on my broad frame and chunky arms).

Let's see how long this "one watch" will last....

Thanks for all your help people!

John


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## normdiaz (May 5, 2004)

No offense, but with all your different requirements/preferences I would not even "go there" to venture suggestions.


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## it'salivejim (Jan 19, 2013)

artistmike said:


> There's got to be something in here.......


 :lol:


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## it'salivejim (Jan 19, 2013)

Orie



jhclare said:


> An update!
> 
> I ordered another Khaki Field mechanical for nostalgia reasons, and after seeing it again, decided it was not quite "me" and returned it. Too casual and wears quite small for a 38mm.
> 
> ...


You need to post some wrist shots


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