# The "death" of Norton ?



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Not really too surprised to read this,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51303905

I personally think they got their whole business model wrong, and I feel truly sorry for all employees, and any customers who are left out of pocket. Royal Enfield, often wrongly criticised over quality, have seen sales in the UK increase by 122% in 2019, by following the retro theme, and giving customers a real world bike at a real world price. Bought the famous Harris Performance company, and employed Pierre Terblanche, the man behind the iconic Ducati 916, in their design team. Sad.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I suspect somebody will buy it, but I agree, they should have stuck with the retro theme


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JoT said:


> I suspect somebody will buy it, but I agree, they should have stuck with the retro theme


 I think a "Brand hijacker" will. The current owner, despite the hype from the British motorcycle press, just didn't seem to get it right from day one. I really hope the ownership stays in Britian, where it belongs.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

JoT said:


> they should have stuck with the retro theme


 Or just cut their cloth accordingly and payed their tax bill


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## deano1956 (Jan 27, 2016)

" but was rescued by entrepreneur and property developer Stuart Garner " does not sound like a man with a good back ground in the industry to give it direction ? but I suppose he kept it going till now , sound like the tax man sunk it rather than sales ? ( don't know as not a bike man :biggrin: )

deano

just had a thought what did Branson know about trains & planes so may be being just a entrepreneur is enough


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Id rather have a yamaha than something dodgy


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

deano1956 said:


> " but was rescued by entrepreneur and property developer Stuart Garner " does not sound like a man with a good back ground in the industry to give it direction ? but I suppose he kept it going till now , sound like the tax man sunk it rather than sales ? ( don't know as not a bike man :biggrin: )
> 
> deano
> 
> just had a thought what did Branson know about trains & planes so may be being just a entrepreneur is enough


 John Bloor who successfully resurrected Triumph came from a similar background. I think over optimism/hype, and lack of sales sunk it more than a tax demand. £300k wouldn't be too much of a burden to a thriving business. I wonder what his salary was ?



Nigelp said:


> Id rather have a yamaha than something dodgy


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> I think a "Brand hijacker" will. The current owner, despite the hype from the British motorcycle press, just didn't seem to get it right from day one. I really hope the ownership stays in Britian, where it belongs.


 The old Norton Commandos have always been my favourite bikes but the new Norton did nothing for me.

A few years ago I saw another Norton from a different company that looked really retro looking, clip ons, rear sets, big twin engine the whole shebang.

I agree about your comments re John Bloor and Triumph, his early bikes were nothing special but enabled him to get his firm established in the industry and the Speed Triple is definitely a modern classic.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Here's what I and many others suspected.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/30/taken-for-a-ride-how-norton-motorcycles-collapsed-amid-acrimony-and-scandal



Turpinr said:


> the Speed Triple is definitely a modern classic.


 I liked the first ones,










Bomb proof, but no Ducati. :laughing2dw:


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> Here's what I and many others suspected.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/30/taken-for-a-ride-how-norton-motorcycles-collapsed-amid-acrimony-and-scandal
> 
> ...


 I got a T595 but probably should have got the T509.

I loved the 748 and 916's, exquisite looking bikes but they needed servicing every week. :laugh:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Turpinr said:


> loved the 748 and 916's,


 It would have to be this !


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> It would have to be this !


 Handsome that isn't it??

I made a stand at work for the T595 and an NC30 that had single swinging arms.



WRENCH said:


> John Bloor who successfully resurrected Triumph came from a similar background. I think over optimism/hype, and lack of sales sunk it more than a tax demand. £300k wouldn't be too much of a burden to a thriving business. I wonder what his salary was ?


 Nothing a bit of tetty wouldn't fix :thumbsup:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Turpinr said:


> Nothing a D8 wouldn't fix :thumbsup:


 Fixed that for you.


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> Fixed that for you.


 A lot more aerodynamic after :laugh:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

WRENCH said:


> Here's what I and many others suspected.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/30/taken-for-a-ride-how-norton-motorcycles-collapsed-amid-acrimony-and-scandal
> 
> ...


 Not so sure about bomb proof, didn't those early ones have issues with cracks in the headstock.


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

BondandBigM said:


> Not so sure about bomb proof, didn't those early ones have issues with cracks in the headstock.


 How early were they ??


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> Not so sure about bomb proof, didn't those early ones have issues with cracks in the headstock.


 Different models, early 595 and 955's with the alloy frames.



















and as a result of the quick response and no nonsense recall, it did Triumph more good than bad.


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

CONGRATULATIONS; at 23.00 GST, tonight you all will be free AGAIN. i don't know what that is in PST, but good luck.! vin


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

This was my T595









Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

WRENCH said:


> Different models, early 595 and 955's with the alloy frames.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Yep that's the ones.

In a previous life where I worked we had a very broken alloy Norton frame in for a third party independent assessment.

The bloke swore blind it fractured before he hit the wall and not as some were suggesting after he hit it.

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> Yep that's the ones.


 The one on my earlier pic has a totally different frame.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

WRENCH said:


> The one on my earlier pic has a totally different frame.


 Yep in hindsight as soon as I saw your reply I realised it wasn't the same model


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## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

As we are No longer permitted to report of what is going on in the Watch World with regards fraud with threads being removed or closed....

Some may find the latest shenanigans and the sad demise of Norton Motorcycles going into receivership..


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Sad that one of the world's most iconic motorcycle names has to end like this, and there are plenty who will say "I told you so".















and still some specials getting built,


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## wrenny1969 (Jun 24, 2008)

I told you so.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Speedy112 said:


> As we are No longer permitted to report of what is going on in the Watch World with regards fraud with threads being removed or closed....


 I read through the full fifty odd pages on this on the Rolex forum.

They were banning anybody who was "victim shaming" but let's be honest anybody who bank transfers 30k or more of any countries dollars to a random bloke that just happened to look the part on the tinternet needs their head examined.

It was a classic case of if it looks to good..........

A fool and his money and all that

It's a shame it got shut down here as there was a bit more to the story than a hooky Daytona


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> It's a shame it got shut down here as there was a bit more to the story than a hooky Daytona


 You can still buy a real one, for less money, better spares backup, and you can fix it yourself.


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## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

This story i believe will end up in the courts I just feel sorry for those who have seemingly been tricked out of their Pensions..










My 1972 Commando 750.. the bike was exported to California early in its life then a pal of mine brought back a shipping container in the late 80s full of cars bikes parts etc and this was amongst them.
Doesn't get ridden much these days which is a shame but finding it hard to part with any of my Toys..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

Speedy112 said:


> This story i believe will end up in the courts I just feel sorry for those who have seemingly been tricked out of their Pensions..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 How many times did the Norton Commando win Motorcycle News bike of the year???

I still think they're a stunning looking bike :thumbsup:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Turpinr said:


> I still think they're a stunning looking bike :thumbsup:


 My mate has a P11 (or Norton Ranger), it's quite pretty.




























this is quite nice too, N15CS.


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## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

Turpinr said:


> How many times did the Norton Commando win Motorcycle News bike of the year???
> 
> I still think they're a stunning looking bike :thumbsup:


 Cant remember how many times it won awards but the late 60s into the early 70s it was a step up with its isolastic engine mounts and smoothness compared to what had been available before..then I guess the Jap bikes started to arrive I remember standing in a Kawasaki showroom wanting the new Z1 and trying to find a way to buying one unfortunately it never happened.


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> My mate has a P11 (or Norton Ranger), it's quite pretty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Your mate looks like Clint Eastwood :laugh:

The Manx Norton is another lovely bike.



Speedy112 said:


> Cant remember how many times it won awards but the late 60s into the early 70s it was a step up with its isolastic engine mounts and smoothness compared to what had been available before..then I guess the Jap bikes started to arrive I remember standing in a Kawasaki showroom wanting the new Z1 and trying to find a way to buying one unfortunately it never happened.


 In 74-77 bikes were my main interest apart from girls but I can't remember seeing that mythical beast, the Z1. :hmmm9uh: I see more of them nowadays.

I was up at Rivvy barn a couple of years ago talking to a bloke with a H1 500.The forks on his bike were the same dia. as my mountain bike's :laugh: no wonder they didn't handle.

I was at Rivvy barn when I saw a Triumph Hurricane for the first and only time but it was stunning :jawdrop1:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

@Turpinr get saving. :laughing2dw:






Commando looks good.

https://www.malarkeyengineering.co.uk/norton-commando


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> @Turpinr get saving. :laughing2dw:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Cheers I enjoyed that.That was a proper fettlers workshop :thumbsup:

The green Triumph was the same colour as the first Tridents and Rocket 3's


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## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

Turpinr said:


> Your mate looks like Clint Eastwood :laugh:
> 
> The Manx Norton is another lovely bike.
> 
> ...


 The Triumph XR75 Hurricane has gone into orbit with regards Pricing..I remember standing in Elite Motors Tooting when a new batch of Hurricanes arrived must have been probably 10 of them looked so pretty all in a row... I spent a lot of my youth in that showroom if only we could turn back the clock id probably do it all again.. :thumbsup:


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

Speedy112 said:


> The Triumph XR75 Hurricane has gone into orbit with regards Pricing..I remember standing in Elite Motors Tooting when a new batch of Hurricanes arrived must have been probably 10 of them looked so pretty all in a row... I spent a lot of my youth in that showroom if only we could turn back the clock id probably do it all again.. :thumbsup:


 The bloke I was talking to said he equated his Hurricane's value to a years salary, but I can't remember how he came to that conclusion??

I can clearly remember the new Norton 850 and T160 Trident being in T&D's Motorcycles near Leyland Motors where I was doing an apprenticeship.

At 17 I was on £14/week and could barely afford to run my RD200 so the Norton was just a dream


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## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

Turpinr said:


> The bloke I was talking to said he equated his Hurricane's value to a years salary, but I can't remember how he came to that conclusion??
> 
> I can clearly remember the new Norton 850 and T160 Trident being in T&D's Motorcycles near Leyland Motors where I was doing an apprenticeship.
> 
> At 17 I was on £14/week and could barely afford to run my RD200 so the Norton was just a dream


 I have seen Genuine XR75s selling for £30-40k... lots of them come in from America as these were seen as cruising style bikes.. but if you thought the watch world was dodgy then bikes being thrown together and sold as original is just as bad...

The number of supposedly genuine Bonneville's I have seen over the years is scary...but I guess that's the same for any collectable high value item.


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

Speedy112 said:


> I have seen Genuine XR75s selling for £30-40k... lots of them come in from America as these were seen as cruising style bikes.. but if you thought the watch world was dodgy then bikes being thrown together and sold as original is just as bad...
> 
> The number of supposedly genuine Bonneville's I have seen over the years is scary...but I guess that's the same for any collectable high value item.


 What do you spot on these Bonnies ?

When I started back on bikes in '96 I originally wanted a Tiger 90 but the prices had gone daft so I had to settle for a 400/4 but got my money back when I sold it and that's only happened once or twice.


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## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

Turpinr said:


> What do you spot on these Bonnies ?
> 
> When I started back on bikes in '96 I originally wanted a Tiger 90 but the prices had gone daft so I had to settle for a 400/4 but got my money back when I sold it and that's only happened once or twice.


 With the Original Bonnies I guess just about everything being sometimes wrong

When people are asking the premium prices and being advertised as Genuine Original unmolested bikes these in reality are like hens teeth being 50 plus years old.its not all about matching numbers

im defiantly No expert but have a couple of very good mates who have forgotten more than I will ever know about that I rely on

The prices are all over the place for old British bikes as lots of people are now chasing the early Jap classics and paying serious money for bikes they couldn't afford as kids

but that's the same for 70's Fords like Escorts Cortina's etc etc now cars that you couldn't give away 15 years ago are now highly sought after

I used to do some Banger racing back in the 80/90s and would love a field of the cars we sent to the breakers yard after being raced..Jags Mk1 Mk2 some with Wire wheels..Daimlers XJ6s Austin Westminster's Rovers of every variety the big Fords Consuls Zodiacs etc etc etc the list is endless...


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Speedy112 said:


> With the Original Bonnies I guess just about everything being sometimes wrong


 I've owned three, pre unit, 650 unit and I bought a new T140 in 1978. It was by far the worst. The pre unit T120 was the best. It had a slick shift box, and I converted it to single carb, apart from having to wire the rocker covers on, it never really gave me much problems other than fastidious regular servicing, considering I used it 5 days a week all year for a 70 mile commute,I don't think that was too bad. It's rediculous when you think about it these things didn't even have a proper oil filter. The T140 had a gauze thing like a top hat that you could have riddled sand through on the bottom of the frame tube, and if you used the recommended Castrol GTX, it would "sludge up". I don't miss any of them. A friend had a Hurricane he bought from new, he sadly passed away. I don't know what happened to it, I never asked, although I do suspect the "vultures" would have descended as they always do.


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

Speedy112 said:


> With the Original Bonnies I guess just about everything being sometimes wrong
> 
> When people are asking the premium prices and being advertised as Genuine Original unmolested bikes these in reality are like hens teeth being 50 plus years old.its not all about matching numbers
> 
> ...


 A mate of mine had a Mk2 in the 70's he paid buttons for and I remember when Etypes had fallen out of favour they were cheap too.


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

if you are into the oldies: forget the silly idea of "matching numbers". vin


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## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

Makes interesting reading..

https://www.superbike.co.uk/article/norton-was-it-a-fraud-from-the-start

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Speedy112 said:


> Makes interesting reading..
> 
> https://www.superbike.co.uk/article/norton-was-it-a-fraud-from-the-start
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I personally know someone who was highly critical of the operation from day one, and got "silenced". The UK motorcycle press, as usual, got in a froth over these ropey things, as per " Hesketh ", and any other cobbled up thing that comes their way. Give Triumph their due though, they have, and continue to make good products.


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> I personally know someone who was highly critical of the operation from day one, and got "silenced". The UK motorcycle press, as usual, got in a froth over these ropey things, as per " Hesketh ", and any other cobbled up thing that comes their way. Give Triumph their due though, they have, and continue to make good products.


 I can't understand why John Bloor has never been knighted ??


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Turpinr said:


> I can't understand why John Bloor has never been knighted ??


 Maybe he isn't a "donor".


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> Maybe he isn't a "donor".


 Like Joe Bamford ?

Branson and Dyson got rewarded easily enough didn't they ?


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Turpinr said:


> Like Joe Bamford ?
> 
> Branson and Dyson got rewarded easily enough didn't they ?


 He's got an OBE.


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> He's got an OBE.


 Not a knighthood though.

Personally a gong off the Monarchy doesn't impress me but if Dyson is suitable, John Bloor should be.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Turpinr said:


> Not a knighthood though.
> 
> Personally a gong off the Monarchy doesn't impress me but if Dyson is suitable, John Bloor should be.


 I thought this would have done it,

"J.S.Bloor donated £400,000 to the Conservative & Unionist Party in the 2017 General Election."


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## Turpinr (Dec 18, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> I thought this would have done it,
> 
> "J.S.Bloor donated £400,000 to the Conservative & Unionist Party in the 2017 General Election."


 I don't want a triumph again :laugh:

I'd already decided I wasn't buying anymore John Smedley polo shirts, made in Britain or not. :fyou:


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## BobJ (Jul 2, 2017)

Not so 'Dead' after all.

https://www.pesmedia.com/norton-motorcycles-tvs-motor-280420/


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

BobJ said:


> Not so 'Dead' after all.
> 
> https://www.pesmedia.com/norton-motorcycles-tvs-motor-280420/


 Interesting that. Indian ownership can be a good thing. UK based Harris Performance Products are owned by Eicher, who in turn own Royal Enfield. Hope it all works out.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Wonder if he'll pay up ?

https://www.visordown.com/news/industry/ex-norton-boss-stuart-garner-ordered-pay-back-£14m


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Not dead yet, a new limited edition 1200cc V4 SS model will be launched with a 1200cc V4 RR in 2021 - "certain assets" (they didn't buy the Donnington Hall HQ or existing factory building) of Norton were sold to TVS Motor Co of India for £16 million. TVS plan to invest tens of millions of pounds and relocate to a new, larger UK factory.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JoT said:


> Not dead yet, a new limited edition 1200cc V4 SS model will be launched with a 1200cc V4 RR in 2021 - "certain assets" (they didn't buy the Donnington Hall HQ or existing factory building) of Norton were sold to TVS Motor Co of India for £16 million. TVS plan to invest tens of millions of pounds and relocate to a new, larger UK factory.


 Yes, I've been watching and wish them every sucess. That's Norton, BSA, and Royal Enfield, all rich in heritage, and now Indian owned, including the famous Czech Jawa.

Both Enfield and Jawa have made a success from "real world" nostalgia motorcycles , and I would imagine Norton could easily do the same.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/local-news/norton-motorcycles-ex-boss-faces-6615812


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