# Wood Burners...



## blackandgolduk (Apr 25, 2005)

Chaps, an appeal to your collective wisdom.

We bought a Victorian mid terrace (C1890 ish) in East London as a renovation project. So far, so good and we've been thinking about opening up some of the fires, notably downstairs in the front and back rooms. The main lounge fireplace is open (no fireplace furniture, although I've just re-done the hearth) and we've had it swept. We're planning on getting a cast iron stove, so I've been looking around at flue liners as I don't think our chimney is up to the job in its current state - has anyone else had this done or done it themselves? Cheapest we've been quoted is a grand, which seems steep seeing as the materials are available for less than Â£200.

If anyone's DIY'd this (in line with building regs) or had any other good experiences I'd be grateful to hear from you.

Cheers,

James


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## AbingtonLad (Sep 8, 2008)

Hi James,

We went through the process of lining our chimney last year. And it certainly wasn't cheap - I'd have been pleased to escape with the job done for Â£1k!

You're right about the cost of materials, but the problem is that under building regulations the installation must either be carried out OR signed off as competent, by a HETAS approved engineer. So you can do it yourself, but be prepared for molehills being made into mountains when it comes to the paperwork ('Blimey, you've had the cowboys in here... etc.'). So it's wise not to go there unless you really are confident of your skills and certain you know what actually needs to be done.

Here's a useful link to the regulations: Stoves & Flues

You might notice that you're even supposed to have a carbon monoxide detector installed with any new stove, as of two months ago!!

Of course lots of people go down the route of doing the work and keeping quiet about it, which is fine as long as Mr Surveyor doesn't ask to see your HETAS certificate when you decide to sell the house! (The certificate has to be attached securely to a wall somewhere near the chimney, so you can't claim to have lost it in a drawer. Or that the dog ate it.)

Hope that helps.

Kevin

P.S. The guy who did our chimney wears a Breitling and has a villa in Spain. Need I say more.


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## AbingtonLad (Sep 8, 2008)

Oh one other thing - try to stick to traditional fire cement for closing joints, i.e. between the stove flue inlet and the flue and the backplate (around the fire rope).

Our guy used some funky new sticky black gunk and it failed after 12 months, resulting in a minor fire around the plate-flue junction. They removed the gunk and replaced it with the material that has been the industry standard for over 200 years... fire cement! (Not like its expensive - Â£3 for a large tub).

On the positive side, the work wasn't especially difficult, provided you have a bit of a head for heights. That's particularly true if you need to fit a new chimney - carrying it on one shoulder while you scale a ladder is not something I fancied doing! Funnily enough we did have a quote for under Â£1k thinking about it, but there was a footnote saying that scaffolding, at Â£300 a day, would be added as required... with a minimum hire period of 3 days!! :blink:

So, you will not be surprised to learn, it's the regulations that are the real challenge, not the work itself.

If there's anything else you'd like to know just mail me.

K


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

James,

I've installed two wood burners in our house --- the last one only 2 weeks ago.

The first one is of probably no interest to you, since it uses an external twin walled STC chimney...but the installation was very successful and now features on a supplier's web site ---> http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/stove-installations.html

The first one is us : Westfire 18 and Selkirk STC twin wall flue system. Which brings me to my first recommendation...and that is to get advice from Caspian at Stovesonline. Having used this company twice in the last 2 years and each time submitting plans to Caspian, I have no hesitation in highly recommending this company.

The second burner installed 2 weeks ago I did 95% of the work but due to height of the chimney, got a friendly builder to go up the ladder and drop the liner down the chimney --- this took about 30 mins and he hasn't bothered charging me yet. I went for a 5 inch liner and I'm glad I did due to some quite tight bends in the chimney; the stove has a 5 inch output and Caspian also believes 5 inch is better despite HETAS installers sometimes refusing to touch 5 inch. Since the object is to keep the liner as hot as possible, it would seem daft to go from a 5 inch outlet on stove to 6 inch liner....

I decided not to bother with insulating the liner. Rockwool sleeves would not have gone down and a friend of mine didn't have much luck with the thinner chimwrap on his install; in the end, he used beads. Since I decided to use a quick-and-easy pot hanger for the liner, it was not possible to pour beads down the chimney between liner and pot. A pot hanger saves *hours* of work and means you do not need to get involved with cementing etc at the chimney pot end.

Getting advice from stovesonline w.r.t. the register plate, how it fits, how the adaptors fit into the register plate etc etc was invaluable. So I could have saved about Â£100 if I'd bought the 8 meter liner on eBay, but could I be sure of stainless steel grade? would adaptors fit? and the register plate?

My complete costs for the burner install below (including the burner : Bohemia 60) came in at exactly Â£1000 --- all from stovesonline. Which I'm pleased with and which was considerably cheaper that the Â£2500 for my first one with the very expensive external twin walled system and much posher Westfire.

Let me know if you need any advice.


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## AbingtonLad (Sep 8, 2008)

Blimey, that is a very nice job Paul!

I guessed someone who knew what they were doing would be along any minute!


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

AbingtonLad said:


> Blimey, that is a very nice job Paul!
> 
> I guessed someone who knew what they were doing would be along any minute!


Thanks Kevin. I think it's all in the planning....we tend to spend months trying to decide "what stove will fit in what space" and "what if we take out another layer of bricks" and "do we need a lintel (yes)?" etc etc and it usually takes a lot more time than the actual work.

In this case, you can see I had to take the existing marble off the wall (to get it cut and reduced Â£Â£Â£)...only to find an old socket and conduit lurking behind. I love a good challenge. :lol:


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## tall_tim (Jul 29, 2009)

We have a couple of wood burners both made by stovax. We bought them online about 3 years ago after deciding on the model we wanted ina local shop. Doing it this way we got them Â£60 each cheaper, but had to wait about 3 weeks.

I also used the black gunk (made by stovax) and indeed it was carp.

We were lucky in that both chimneys were sound, so I just used a blanking plate on the chimney breast with a hole cut through for the short length of flue off th eback of the stove.


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## Big Bad Boris (Dec 3, 2010)

loads of great advice so far, but no one has mentioned back boilers

Hopefully you'll already have some form of central heating already installed in the house, if so, some re-routing of the pipe work should enable you to connect it up to your new woodburner (with a back boiler), and you'll then heat the entire house and get hot water as well.

I'd also opt for a multifuel burner, as coal may be easier to source than wood in east London.

http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/stove_help_and_advice.html


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## tixntox (Jul 17, 2009)

When we originally moved to rural Norfolk we went for the "old look" and fitted a stove. The 710 did nothing but complain about the "mess" each time we had to feed or clean it ( usually my job anyway! ). She also complained about the background smell of burned wood! It wasn't long before it was removed and an electric jobby :thumbsdown: put in (useless but pretty and clean!). After the kids moved on we moved to a bungalow







(no draught to draw a fire) and now have gas. :sweatdrop: Hey Ho!

Mike


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## dombox40 (Oct 20, 2008)

Big Bad Boris said:


> loads of great advice so far, but no one has mentioned back boilers
> 
> Hopefully you'll already have some form of central heating already installed in the house, if so, some re-routing of the pipe work should enable you to connect it up to your new woodburner (with a back boiler), and you'll then heat the entire house and get hot water as well.
> 
> ...


Just my couple of pence worth and I may be wrong but I heard somewhere that fitting a fire with a backboiler is not allowed any more perhaps someone could throw some light on this. I know our next door neighbours tried to have a new gas fire fitted with a back boiler to replace their old one and was told it,s not allowed any more.


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## stefano34 (Sep 27, 2009)

We had a combi boiler put in about 10 years ago and that including taking out the old gas fire and back boiler altering the pipework and making good was around Â£1200.

I put in a pot bellied multifuel stove that I bought 'cheap' (Â£200), I worked in engineering at the time so made up my own stainless steel flue pipe and inspection/sweeping hatch (this lives behind the mirror on the chimney breast) I did it myself as I was capable and had access to the right tools and equipment...I had a few quotes and they all came in at around Â£6-700 just to fit the fire in! as you say its all labour, it took me about 12 hours including making the flue and hatch oh not to forget the stainless steel baffle plate I fitted between the flue pipe and chimney opening to stop any falling soot debris from coming back into the room...then when you put in the hatch you seal up the back of it with fire cement all the way around its periphery , you do this through the hatch opening using a candle for light and a mirror in reverse to see that youve filled it all the way along the side nearest to you as you generally cant see this due to the angle...unless you are really handy a grand seems cheapish if it includes fixing in the fire/hearth etc so its ready to run IMHO, also I had to gring off 1/4" off the back leg of the stove as it didn't sit level and lay the hearth tiles.

Just a note use seasoned wood and get reading up on the official side of things as a mate of mine had a multifuel stove put in earlier this year and got grassed up for "burning rubbish and stuff on it, and were in a smokless area" (a jealous neighbour) he got official letters threatening court action , fines around a Â£1000 etc etc , so he rang the council/EH and explained his wood was seasoned and stored within guidance and that he only burnt smokeless fuel...just be aware oh and its not a cheap cheap option.


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## dombox40 (Oct 20, 2008)

I,ve just checked with a friend who recently had a wood burner fitted and wanted a backboiler fitted as part of the installation and was told it,s against regulations to do so, hope this helps.


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

Hi Paul, can you post some more info on the detail of work you did and why?

Amy wants a wood burner, but even using my bro-in law for some of the work (he's an architectural stonemason, so I can get the hearth etc at cost), we estimated circa Â£3K, which is just daft.

We've been given a Victorian basket-grate for free (handy having a relative in the trade) and thought we might use that instead, to save costs (and it would also allow us to burn coal) but just getting a quote to survey the existing chimney is becoming a pain in the a**e.

Did you line the chimney because the original was shot, or because the burner needed the smaller flue?

Our original chimney lining looks to be in good nick (early 1960s with a cement liner, but it doesn't look like it was used for long before conversion to gas).

And what size is that aperture and your burner?

Sorry for all the questions.

Cheers

Andy


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## Big Bad Boris (Dec 3, 2010)

dombox40 said:


> I,ve just checked with a friend who recently had a wood burner fitted and wanted a backboiler fitted as part of the installation and was told it,s against regulations to do so, hope this helps.


I think your friend may have been misled, or perhaps wanted to fit a backboiler to a wood burner that wasn't designed to have a backboiler fitted, there could also have been a problem with his particular installation.

There are many wood/multifuel burners available on the market with an integral back or side boiler, there is no problem fitting a boiler of this type - a quick google will provide many UK manufacturers and suppliers of this type of heater.

Have a look at this page for a bit more info regarding backboilers http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/stoves_with_backboilers.html


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Who. Me? said:


> Hi Paul, can you post some more info on the detail of work you did and why?


Andy,

I'll try...  Does this help? ---> http://www.countrystoves.co.uk/whylinechim.htm

And from stovesonline, this schematic:










If you have a good, sound, standard terracotta chimney pot, you can dispense with all that work at the top of the chimney and use a pot hanger (see below). You fix the pot hanger to the end of the liner before you go up the ladder; you then drop the liner down the chimney and the pot hanger sits on top of the pot and is held in place by a large stainless jubilee clip:


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## minkle (Mar 17, 2008)

Superb work Paul :good:

I'd love to sort my fire out..it burns wood sooo quickly and also sometimes leaks smoke into the bedroom upstairs and dont get me started on the tap, tap of rain drops into the bedroom fire!

If we owned this cottage it'd be done, as it is now the zoo wont pay for any of the work to be done and they're maintenance team is sh!t.


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

Silver Hawk said:


> Who. Me? said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Paul, can you post some more info on the detail of work you did and why?
> ...


Thanks Paul, I was hoping you'd only fitted the liner because your existing lining was shot (and that we wouldn't have to line ours). From the first link, it looks like wood burners definitely need a new liner insert to maintain their efficiency.

And our pot definitely needs replacing. The former owners had the pot removed and a gas flue terminal fitted in its place 

Still, our nice new central heating should keep us warm for now (assuming British Gas actually turn up to fit it this time) :disgust:


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

blackandgolduk said:


> We bought a Victorian mid terrace (C1890 ish) in East London as a renovation project. So far, so good and we've been thinking about opening up some of the fires,


Yikes! I did this a couple of years back, they'd been capped with stone, I found assorted (and pertrified/mummified) dead animals, it was scary.


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## blackandgolduk (Apr 25, 2005)

Thanks for all the info, guys - I knew TWF would come good for me. I've had a good read and there's some helpful stuff there...

We've been in the house a few months now and to be fair we've ripped the guts out of it. The front lounge is almost finished, having done all the work myself (stripping floors, replastering, stripping wood, repairing plaster mouldings etc.) and I'm pretty handy so it's likely I'll go down the DIY-ish route because there's so much else to spend cash on around the house.

Just to clarify a few things - the 'woodburner' will be a multi-fuel as I live in a smoke control area, so I have to be careful what I burn on it. It's also purely a vanity thing - the house has relatively new central heating, I just want the fires because they'd look good and fit in with the house! There's no room for a back boiler model, and everything is going to be kosher - if I DIY it I'll be getting the council to sign off the work. I have a load of stuff that they'll need to sign off after I've put in a few new doors and knocked down a wall or two...

Kevin - thanks for the links, really helpful.

Paul - likewise, thanks for the run-through. Your install is exactly what I planned to do so that's helpful.

Mark - the house was so neglected, so I'm really enjoying a sympathetic renovation. No animals so far...

Cheers chaps, will look into it and get back to you - may even post some pics!

EDIT: typo


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

Trawling up an old thread (and I'd forgotten quite how old).

Thought I'd share photos of ours now its finished...

From this (photo before we bought and moved in - not our furniture!)...










Via this...










...and this...










We've finally got to this...










I'm happy with it, the wife is happy with it and the cats are extremely happy with it :dontgetit:

Bit of a squeeze getting it in, but it actually sits half in half out of the aperture, so the installer was happy we've got enough clearance.

Learned a lot about the house in the process (and particularly about how badly it has been bodged over the years). I reckon we're the first people to actually fix anything in here, rather than just paper over the bodges.


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Very nice Andy!


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

Thanks Paul. It really kicks out some heat.

Still haven't quite got the hang of lighting it though.

Unless we use oven-dried kindling, we have to resort to a fire-lighter block - and that's just cheating.


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## chris.ph (Dec 29, 2011)

tescos are selling a reformed paper log at the moment that works a treat on our wood burner, and they are all a bitch to start lol


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