# Parnis



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

For those who want the look without the Price Tag ..these may be of some interest...but I would recommend if you see something that takes your fancy shop around on the well known Auction sites as they can be found much cheaper than buying direct... :thumbsup:

https://parnis.org/collections?utm_source=PARNIS+WATCH+CO.&utm_campaign=8752ac73d9-SHIPPING+UPDATE+(CNY)_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_dba812780f-8752ac73d9-65979803&goal=0_dba812780f-8752ac73d9-65979803&mc_cid=8752ac73d9&mc_eid=e52c41706c


----------



## Lampoc (Oct 31, 2010)

A company with absolutely no shame whatsoever! I've little doubt that the same factories produce those models with "different" brand names on the dial too.


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

Lampoc said:


> A company with absolutely no shame whatsoever! I've little doubt that the same factories produce those models with "different" brand names on the dial too.


 "Imitation is the sincerest form of Flattery that Mediocrity can pay to greatness"

I find their Honesty refreshing rather than going down the "Homage" route that so many find comfort in...


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

they must be alright @mach 0.0013137 has a few. And he knows what he is doing i think? :tumbleweed:

or were doomed!

[IMG alt="Image result for doomed scottish dads army" data-ratio="100.00"]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8d/7a/10/8d7a10e53c3b1c47758cb817b71a9ffc.jpg[/IMG]

At least they aint German.


----------



## Lampoc (Oct 31, 2010)

Speedy112 said:


> "Imitation is the sincerest form of Flattery that Mediocrity can pay to greatness"
> 
> I find their Honesty refreshing rather than going down the "Homage" route that so many find comfort in...


 Refreshing honesty? I'm not sure if you're joking or not...


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Lampoc said:


> Refreshing honesty? I'm not sure if you're joking or not...


 he must be...unless hes on about the fact they've put penis on the dial and someones not put rolex or omega on...which without too much stretch of the imagination may go on allegedly with their creations? Possibly. In which case stamping the as saint sinners or parnis is maybe honest? Never the less they are maybe a creation to allow then copying with impunity.


----------



## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

Speedy112 said:


> For those who want the look without the Price Tag ..these may be of some interest...but I would recommend if you see something that takes your fancy shop around on the well known Auction sites as they can be found much cheaper than buying direct... :thumbsup:
> 
> https://parnis.org/collections?utm_source=PARNIS+WATCH+CO.&utm_campaign=8752ac73d9-SHIPPING+UPDATE+(CNY)_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_dba812780f-8752ac73d9-65979803&goal=0_dba812780f-8752ac73d9-65979803&mc_cid=8752ac73d9&mc_eid=e52c41706c


 I actually recommend that you do not shop around for other "gray market" dealers of Parnis. They use Parnis parts but are not built by Parnis and they lack the quality. I know, I've done it many times. Unless it's quartz, stay away from other dealers of Parnis. I recommend going straight to the source. They are, at least, of reasonable quality for what you pay, which is only about $10-20 more than elsewhere.


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

JayDeep said:


> "gray market"


 for a minute then i thought you were on about...

i had an awful vision of you getting all this lot on here, to shop for parnis on the gay market. It must be you going on about that rainbow strap last night.

Phew...dont do that jay

:tumbleweed: :swoon:

it will come up baron


----------



## Jet Jetski (Feb 10, 2019)

I think milsub homages are not too bad, because that was an MOD spec, but it seems weird to want a 'pretend' watch. However, I inadvertently bought a homage to an Omega AT model that few people (including me) had seen before, because I just thought it looked Japanese (others didn't); but I am sure that the 'fang' indices are inspired by one Seiko range (monsters), and the embossed stripes on the white dial by another Seiko range ('Karesansui'), so who can lay claim? And was no Rolex ever inspired by the design of another watch, and have none developed technology from another pioneer? It's murky really. But these Parnis are mostly just blatant rip-offs. IMHO It's better to find something more 'original' you like, or at least something with a twist.


----------



## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

Speedy112 said:


> "Imitation is the sincerest form of Flattery that Mediocrity can pay to greatness"
> 
> I find their Honesty refreshing rather than going down the "Homage" route that so many find comfort in...


 I guess it depends on where you draw the lines between homage, legit and fake. I find Parnis to be homage watches, completely. And I have no problems with owning said homages, at all. I do have a problem with owning fakes. Not because they do anything to take money out of the pockets of the originators, because they don't, that's fact. Nobody who buys a fake can at all or would even try to afford the real deal, that's just silly to think otherwise. No, I have a problem with it because they are pretenders that do often attempt, or are at least used to attempt to dupe unsuspecting buyers into thinking they paid for the real thing. Again, this where it's important to define the lines you draw. I don't consider homages pretending. I consider Parnis, Alpha and the like to be homages. Yes they directly copy the designs of other manufacturers, but come on, so do many highly respected companies, including, mostly, a bunch of micro brands and startups. Everyone takes their design cues from someone or something else. Very few innovate. Those that do deserve their respects. Still, not everyone can afford the cost associated with this. Some that can are too smart to on such a vastly depreciating asset.

Anyway, haters are going to hate and those that do are the ones who buy high end things as signs of their superiority. They do it as status symbols. They play games with themselves and attempt to fool you into thinking that they have some sort of moral high ground, but really, they're just worthless virtue signaling cephalopods, craving and desperate for attention.

End of story, don't ever support the fake industry. Do support the homage and legitimate industry.


----------



## Jet Jetski (Feb 10, 2019)

Nigelp said:


> it will come up


----------



## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

As you may have gathered I rather like Parnis watches & have found some of them to be excellent. They are obviously not to everyone`s taste & some people take real exception to them but to me it`s just...

[IMG alt="Image result for water off a duck's back" data-ratio="80.00"]https://live.staticflickr.com/2803/4020066317_47f68c8f44_z.jpg[/IMG]​
:tongue:​


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Nigelp said:


> i had an awful vision of you getting all this lot on here, to shop for parnis on the gay market. It must be you going on about that rainbow strap last night.
> 
> Phew...dont do that jay
> 
> ...


 Miss out the r and what the spell check does to Parnis, be careful before you hit search. You never know what may pop up. Wait a minute you rascal, GREY market. :nono:

@JayDeep Gray is a surname. Naughty.


----------



## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

WRENCH said:


> Miss out the r and what the spell check does to Parnis, be careful before you hit search. You never know what may pop up. Wait a minute you rascal, GREY market. :nono:
> 
> @JayDeep Gray is a surname. Naughty.


 *Grey* and *gray* are both accepted in the English language. They refer to a color of a neutral tone between black and white, and can also be used metaphorically to convey gloom and dullness. However, *gray* is the more popular spelling in the US, while *grey*reigns supreme in the UK.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JayDeep said:


> *Grey* and *gray* are both accepted in the English language. They refer to a color of a neutral tone between black and white, and can also be used metaphorically to convey gloom and dullness. However, *gray* is the more popular spelling in the US, while *grey*reigns supreme in the UK.


 I'll bare that in mind.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Lampoc said:


> Refreshing honesty? I'm not sure if you're joking or not...


 The Chinese Government/Nation/Companies/Peoples have no real grasp of intellectual property rights so I guess we could all right a book about this and it would be very very long. The only thing honest about the Chinese watch industry is that they honestly don't give a monkeys about the international norms of commerce and ownership.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> The﻿ only thing honest about the Chinese watch industry is that they honestly don't give a monkeys﻿ about the international norms of commerce﻿ and ownership.﻿


 Payback.


----------



## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

No interest in owning one of these I would rather own a cheap original brand than a cheap copy of an expensive watch, and that's all they are, copies and one step away from a fake


----------



## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

JoT said:


> No interest in owning one of these I would rather own a cheap original brand than a cheap copy of an expensive watch, and that's all they are, copies and one step away from a fake


 I respect your views John & others who are of the same opinion, however it won`t make me suddenly want to dispose of my Parnis & Alphas etc., each to their own as they say :thumbsup:


----------



## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)




----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Interesting. Parnis always seems to be a "light the touch paper" topic. There are plenty of other "lookie likeies" out there, why does this particular brand draw so much flak ? And no, I don't want one in the same way I don't want an Explorer "tribute", but I've got a Steihart diver, so that makes me a raging hypocrite.


----------



## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

I`m rather impressed with these,imo their build quality is excellent & they have Japanese (Miyota) movements....


















​
:biggrin:​
​


----------



## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

Parnis have done some original designs before too. Still do. So it's not like you can say that everything they do is a direct copy. I think many of us tend to be too harsh and judgemental, too quickly, when we even see or hear the name Parnis. But, as always, to each their own. You spend your money on what makes you happy and I'll do the same.


----------



## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> I`m rather impressed with these, imo build quality is excellent & they have Japanese (Miyota) movements....
> 
> View attachment 16610
> 
> ...


 Now THAT ^ looks excellent, and as far as I can tell, it's not an homage or copy of anything else out there (Davey P sits down and waits for someone to step in and post a pic of something that looks exactly like it, but for 10 times the price...  :laughing2dw: )

Nothing wrong with Parnis IMHO. As long as they don't use the original branding and logos, they can't be classed as fakes, and they're not fooling anyone anyway, so who cares? Life's too short to get bent out of shape over these things, move along, nothing to see here... :thumbsup:


----------



## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Just looked up Parnis on the urban dictionary :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Sorry Mach


----------



## ry ry (Nov 25, 2018)

All homage watches should have parody names.

Port-u-geezer, Suboptimal Mariner, that sort of thing.


----------



## anomander (May 5, 2009)

Had one of these - good watch.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

ry ry said:


> All homage watches should have parody names.
> 
> Port-u-geezer, Suboptimal Mariner, that sort of thing.


 Exploiter, Dayawaytona, Snail Master, Substandard Mariner. :laughing2dw:


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

Lampoc said:


> Refreshing honesty? I'm not sure if you're joking or not...


One mans Steinhart is another mans Parnis.. why would you think I'm Joking ..Parnis put themselves out there saying we copy all the great pieces.. whilst many other brands hide behind the Homage route.. if people think there is a moral high ground to these pieces then it is built on sand and they are only deluding themselves..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Roy said:


> Just looked up Parnis on the urban dictionary :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> Sorry Mach


 Good model name. Parnis "Flaccid".


----------



## Lampoc (Oct 31, 2010)

Speedy112 said:


> One mans Steinhart is another mans Parnis.. why would you think I'm Joking ..Parnis put themselves out there saying we copy all the great pieces.. whilst many other brands hide behind the Homage route.. if people think there is a moral high ground to these pieces then it is built on sand and they are only deluding themselves..


 I can't say I have a high opinion of Steinhart either but at least there are differences. At least Steinhart are making watches that are "homages" (NOT exact copies) of great watches that are no longer in production by the original manufacturer. At least they put their own spin on some of the designs. All Parnis do is occasionally change the settings on the dial printing machine when they've already made their quota of fakes for the day.

If you like them, great. I'd rather chew my own arm off than wear one on my wrist!


----------



## stanley (Nov 20, 2019)

does anybody know what number battery you use for a parnis pa6009 watch.


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Speedy112 said:


> One mans Steinhart is another mans Parnis.. why would you think I'm Joking ..Parnis put themselves out there saying we copy all the great pieces.. whilst many other brands hide behind the Homage route.. if people think there is a moral high ground to these pieces then it is built on sand and they are only deluding themselves..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 :yes: yep a copy is a copy however much it costs unless its a rolex.


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

Nigelp said:


> :yes: yep a copy is a copy however much it costs unless its a rolex.


 Don't get them all going again..you are a very Naughty Boy...


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

I love Parnis threads, as there is no watch brand that gets so many people hot under the collar. Including Parnis sub brands, I own about 10. Yes, it's true that Parnis are a mushroom brand, and the products are made in varying factories. The secret is to find a good supplier. I use "mywatchcode" and have done for a few years. They get the product to my door within a week, and I have never paid any duty. I have had two problems. A bracelet with tight screws, which meant I ended up damaging it. They sent me a replacement FOC within a week. Another watch stopped working, so they took it back and replaced the movement. They also paid my return postage. I have a policy of only buying Parnis watches with Japanese movements now, and haven't had a problem since. 316L cases, sapphire windows, excellent straps, and Japanese movements for fantastic prices. Of course, there are those who will put them under a microscope and find issues, but let's be real shall we?

Whether people like or don't like homage watches is a different matter all together. I love some of the luxury brand designs, but can't afford them, and I won't buy a fake. For this reason I see know problem in wearing a homage. I once worked for a large clothing retailer. The buyers quite often took in expensive lines from other retailers and requested our manufacturers produce the same item at a lesser price. This is how the world works, and there is a good chance something you are wearing at the moment had been copied from someone else. The moment some famous woman gets married, there are dozens of wedding dress makers copying the dress, it's life, and watches are no different.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> Of course, there are those who will put them under a microscope and find issues, but let's be real shall we?


 It does not take a microscope to see that a $100 watch is ........ a $100 watch.

In much the same way that a £500 Tissot on close inspection ...... looks like a £500 watch.

In the watch world, you usually get what you pay for sub £3K if you stay away from certain Micro Brands and Parnis "in house" range are offering about bang on value for what they are so long as you don't pay stupid money for them etc etc.

Of the "issues" found in cheap watches, most are "faults allowed for" I would imagine given the product spec ..... but occasionally there is the odd ridiculous QC faux-pas . But this also applies to seiko, citizen and a few other mass producers at the lower end.

I guess its all about acceptance of what the reality is.

A hackney tart is not in the same league as a Mayfair hooker , and neither pretend they are the other.


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Speedy112 said:


> Don't get them all going again..you are a very Naughty Boy...


 it was only to Solicit a response I was just laboring under a misapprehension and it was the only way it could be resolved has it been? Possibly...ive had a few parnis and found them to be reasonable quality.



JonnyOldBoy said:


> A hackney tart is not in the same league as a Mayfair hooker , and neither pretend they are the other.


 Jonny has anyone mentioned that the sterile dial parnis fuel the fake market? I didn't want too. So i won't.


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> It does not take a microscope to see that a $100 watch is ........ a $100 watch.
> 
> In much the same way that a £500 Tissot on close inspection ...... looks like a £500 watch.
> 
> ...


 In short you are saying "you get what you pay for". As a retired retailer of some years, I can confirm there is no other saying more inaccurate than that one.


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

anomander said:


> Had one of these - good watch.


 ive had this and can confirm they are nicely made with a noisy rotor. In the case of mine. A nice watch for the 85 quid i paid. That was circa 2014 and its still running, though i don't own it now.



Mrs Wiggles said:


> In short you are saying "you get what you pay for". As a retired retailer of some years, I can confirm there is no other saying more inaccurate than that one.


 i once paid 50 grand for a jag that kept breaking down. But i know generally you do. I once paid 3 grand for a 20 year old porsche that was perfect tatty but totally reliable.


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

Nigelp said:


> ive had this and can confirm they are nicely made with a noisy rotor. In the case of mine. A nice watch for the 85 quid i paid. That was circa 2014 and its still running, though i don't own it now.
> 
> i once paid 50 grand for a jag that kept breaking down. But i know generally you do. I once paid 3 grand for a 20 year old porsche that was perfect tatty but totally reliable.


 Most Parnis watches have a noisy rota, it's because they largely use Seagull or Miyota movements, both of which are a bit loud. Strangely enough I never notice it when they are being worn. I have one with an NH35 movement, and that's pretty silent. True about the car scenario. Most unreliable car I ever owned was an E Class Merc, yet every Kia I ever owned never had a problem.


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> Most Parnis watches have a noisy rota, it's because they largely use Seagull or Miyota movements, both of which are a bit loud. Strangely enough I never notice it when they are being worn. I have one with an NH35 movement, and that's pretty silent. True about the car scenario. Most unreliable car I ever owned was an E Class Merc, yet every Kia I ever owned never had a problem.


 merc electrics are terrible in my experience most reliable car i had was a 500 quid honda,

I had 2 parnis miyota autos a sub a like and a blnr alike they were fine so im sure you are right, yeh on the wrist it was ok. I gave it to my next door neighbour he still wears the Portuguese hom.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> In short you are saying "you get what you pay for". As a retired retailer of some years, I can confirm there is no other saying more inaccurate than that one.


 "In short" completely removes the context of my statement.

I said "you usually get what you pay for sub £3k" and that is entirely accurate. In most cases the quality of the piece has a strong positive correlation with the price. The vast majority of watches are retailed at approximately 600% of core manufacturing costs (and that is pretty much standard across many retail products) .... 1/6 product cost , 1/6 overheads/collaterals , 1/6 profit , 1/2 Retail markup.

This is an approximation but its fairly standard.

The reason the picture gets more foggy with higher end luxury watches is because they sit around often for years before being sold and hence are binding in stock costs that has its own accounted cost associated with it.

But back to the junior pond , a $100 Chinese watch costs about $15 to make before other costs are factored in etc etc so no real difference to any other.


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> "In short" completely removes the context of my statement.
> 
> I said "you usually get what you pay for sub £3k" and that is entirely accurate. In most cases the quality of the piece has a strong positive correlation with the price. The vast majority of watches are retailed at approximately 600% of core manufacturing costs (and that is pretty much standard across many retail products) .... 1/6 product cost , 1/6 overheads/collaterals , 1/6 profit , 1/2 Retail markup.
> 
> ...


 Selling directly to the public, and paying the employees a bowl of rice a week keeps prices down. Compare a £100 Parnis watch with a £100 watch from Argos, and I'm sorry Johny, Parnis win hands down


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> Compare a £100 Parnis watch with a £100 watch from Argos, and I'm sorry Johny, Parnis win hands down


 What trickery is this you speak of ?


----------



## Yanto (Sep 27, 2018)

JoT said:


> No interest in owning one of these I would rather own a cheap original brand than a cheap copy of an expensive watch, and that's all they are, copies and one step away from a fake


 This.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> Selling directly to the public, and paying the employees a bowl of rice a week keeps prices down. Compare a £100 Parnis watch with a £100 watch from Argos, and I'm sorry Johny, Parnis win hands down


 Both cost the same to make, both are pretty much the same quality ( assuming the Parnis is not made of steel with a counterfeit specification certificate ) and the only real difference is that Parnis made most of the profit on the watch they made , whereas the Argos Brands made considerably less.

Your perception of higher quality with the Parnis is because you want to perceive that. Which is fair enough. But it does not change the reality that they are essentially watches that cost a few dollars to manufacture and everyone I have ever seen in the flesh pretty much looks it.


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

I don't get the cost argument. Any watch for the mass market is going to be designed down to a cost at which the manufacturer and retailers involved can make a profit. That applies whether or not it's a homage.

So, I won't be strolling into the pub flashing my Casio Edifice, because it's not that kind of watch, despite being perfectly well made, as far as I can tell.

If a watch is thrown together from shoddy materials, I expect it will show that up sooner or later by falling to bits.


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

Yanto said:


> This.


 One step is enough



JonnyOldBoy said:


> Both cost the same to make, both are pretty much the same quality ( assuming the Parnis is not made of steel with a counterfeit specification certificate ) and the only real difference is that Parnis made most of the profit on the watch they made , whereas the Argos Brands made considerably less.
> 
> Your perception of higher quality with the Parnis is because you want to perceive that. Which is fair enough. But it does not change the reality that they are essentially watches that cost a few dollars to manufacture and everyone I have ever seen in the flesh pretty much looks it.


 Your so wrong. For under £100 I can buy a Parnis with sapphire crystal (and yes, it is genuine sapphire), a Japanese automatic movement, a well crafted 316L stainless case, and a quality strap/bracelet. In the case of a dive watch, throw in a 120 click bezel with a ceramic insert. If any of the high street brands made watches with this type of spec, believe me, I would buy them, but they simply don't. No doubt you can give me detail regarding the specification not being as good as a luxury watch, ie inferior sapphire, and inferior stainless, but I know that, and expect it. Finally, the profit margin on a % basis for a Parnis is considerably lower than that of any luxury brand watch. It's a simple business principal, sell loads at a smaller margin, or fewer at a higher one. Remember, there is no retailers mark up, so that automatically makes the item at least half the price. Nothing wrong with either, but I believe Parnis punch well above their weight.

I always jump to Parnis's defence because I own, and have owned many of them, and have largely enjoyed the experience. I should also mention that even with their sub brands, I own an awful lot more watches that are not Parnis, and are not Chinese. I take every watch on it's merits, and I don't care what is on the dial, and I certainly don't care where they are made.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Just don't get the Parnis thingy.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> Your so wrong. For under £100 I can buy a Parnis with sapphire crystal (and yes, it is genuine sapphire),


 Any yes its a genuine reject sapphire hence why it's in a watch that cost $10 to manufacture.

If Seiko's production QC stats are industry standard then 80% of all Sapphires in the Lower Asian markets are rejects.

However, given that the QC of some other watch manufacturers is probably higher, I would say its likely to be around 90%.

Accelerated synthetic process Sapphire is extremely difficult to produce without aspherical aberrations and density irregularities.

Have you any idea regarding the science behind this !?



WRENCH said:


> Just don't get the Parnis thingy.


 I see why they sell in the same way I see why QVC sell stuff. It all about perceived value.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> I see why they sell in the same way I see why QVC sell stuff. It all about perceived value.


 Apologies, I was being obtuse. I am fully aware that many of our esteemed members have Parnis in there collection, and I have no problem with that. There is a multitude of sub £100 mechanical watches out there that are good, but sell quietly.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> Apologies, I was being obtuse. I am fully aware that many of our esteemed members have Parnis in there collection, and I have no problem with that. There is a multitude of sub £100 mechanical watches out there that are good, but sell quietly.


 I love the obtuseness of the Scots.... I was at Dumfries House on Sunday evening for a private charity function with Wifey and one of the minions declared his love of the carriage clocks at the residence .... whilst claiming he had to train as a carriage driver first .... [ I stupidly asked ; "really?" ]


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Any yes its a genuine reject sapphire hence why it's in a watch that cost $10 to manufacture.
> 
> If Seiko's production QC stats are industry standard then 80% of all Sapphires in the Lower Asian markets are rejects.
> 
> ...


 Honestly Jonny, I haven't read so much bo110cks in my life. Reject sapphire, so the reject sapphire you refer to can not be seen through in order to read the time (aspherical aberrations, what?). All the reject sapphire comes from Japan who produce about 10% as many watches as China. Yes, if carefully examined through a microscope the sapphire crystal in a Parnis will be inferior to a watch costing 100 times as much, but who examines watches through a microscope unless they are really really sad? Without very careful examination, the window in my nice shiny Parnis Daytona looks just as good as a Rolex.

I accept your expertise in regards to detail, but you don't appear to take into consideration value for money. People who buy Parnis watches (such as me) are not comparing them with watches that cost £20k, and we take pleasure from the fact they look similar to very expensive timepieces that in reality do the same job. Asking anyone not to buy a high spec'd Parnis in order they by a cheap looking Sekonda for the same price is a little naive.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> Honestly Jonny, I haven't read so much bo110cks in my life. Reject sapphire


 You have not the first clue about how that crystal is synthesised have you ?


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> You have not the first clue about how that crystal is synthesised have you ?


 No, but I don't really care. Its sapphire, it doesn't scratch, and I can see through it to tell the time.

On another note, you tell me that Parnis watches only cost a few dollars to produce. With exception to one of mine, they either have auto Miyota or NH35 movements, or a Seiko mecca quartz. Please explain how they can therefore produce such watches ar $2 when the movements clearly cost more than that. A watch is like any other product, a sum of its parts.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> No, but I don't really care.


 You should care.



Mrs Wiggles said:


> Please explain how they can therefore produce such watches ar $2 when the movements clearly cost more than that.


 Movements are QC graded at several stages. This produces varying movements of the same manufacturing spec at different price points. Usually the grading can be spotted with a coloured dot , purple, red, blue etc etc occasionally they clip the movement.

What you are missing here is that QC passed 1st grade movements used in established brands are more expensive BECAUSE a success rate % of QC has already been factored in. So to a certain extent, the established brands sort of subsidise the rejected movements that get wholesaled out and sell them at cost or lower

Assuming of course that they are QC graded genuine movements and not clones. Clones are dirt cheap.

The watch cases are usually made from general market recycled slab steel from the over-stock markets. This is because foundry capacity for virgin steel in that part of the world is currently heavily restricted for various reasons. This steel is cheap beyond reasoning because its essentially "take what you can get" purchasing from a J.I.T. type commodities market , not a futures market ( as with Virgin Steel ).

Hence mass volume manufacturing of parts-bin type watch designs can be achieved at incredibly low prices. But it is what it is.

If you over assume on the quality with these , you may find out months up the line that your watch was "All fur coat, and no knickers" as they say in some circles....


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> You should care.
> 
> Movements are QC graded at several stages. This produces varying movements of the same manufacturing spec at different price points. Usually the grading can be spotted with a coloured dot , purple, red, blue etc etc occasionally they clip the movement.
> 
> ...


 But I don't see why any of this matters. All my Miyota and NH35 movements are reliable and accurate. In fact the only inaccurate mechanical watch I have is a Seiko SKX, which sort of dispels what you are saying. The cases on my Parnis watches look fantastic and are well finished. Of course, it's possible the stainless steel isn't as good as some other watches, but it looks good and it doesn't rust, so I am not sure what more I can ask for. Jonny, I can't help feeling you are a little to obsessed with the detail, and this in turn is preventing you from enjoying watches for what they are. Ultimately a watch needs to look good and be reliable, nothing else really matters much !


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> But I don't see why any of this matters.


 Because it reinforces actual value as opposed to perceived value.

You can happily buy your watches and assume/expect whatever you like whilst ignoring the material facts of production etc etc.

Personally I am not in that watch buying subset. Be it a £100 watch or a £3000 watch.

The only reason I am in this discussion is because you think those watches are "fantastic value" compared to other mainstream brands, and I don't. I think they are about right value wise for a disposal watch and certainly given the production parameters against the final price paid, possible poor value in some instances.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> I think they are about right value wise for a disposal watch and certainly given the production parameters against the final price paid, possible poor value in some instances.


 Exactly. I like my cheap and cheerful Shanghai watches, because that's exactly what they are. I buy them knowing full well that when they stop working, then it's of to the landfill.

£30 auto, accurate, debatable quality.










and not trying to be something else.


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Because it reinforces actual value as opposed to perceived value.
> 
> You can happily buy your watches and assume/expect whatever you like whilst ignoring the material facts of production etc etc.
> 
> ...


 I have asked you to do this for me once before, but you failed to do so. Find me a new watch that has a sapphire crystal, 316L stainless case, well made strap/bracelet and a Japanese automatic movement for less than £100, that isn't a Parnis or Parnis sub brand.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> Exactly. I like my cheap and cheerful Shanghai watches, because that's exactly what they are. I buy them knowing full well that when they stop working, then it's of to the landfill.
> 
> £30 auto, accurate, debatable quality.
> 
> and not trying to be something else.


 And to be honest, I think this can be the more "interesting" end of the watch collecting spectrum. And the lower price points, there is more variance and frankly more to debate and discuss.

I enjoy seeing most watches on here and learning about their breeding/quality/value etc etc



Mrs Wiggles said:


> Find me a new watch that has a sapphire crystal, 316L stainless case, well made strap/bracelet and a Japanese automatic movement for less than £100, that isn't a Parnis or Parnis sub brand.


 You just keep ignoring the sliding scale of quality that exists in the real world.

You keep banging on about 316L like it's some sort of quality statement. It is not.

316L is just a formula. And the ingredients for that formula can be superb-to-sh1te on a sliding scale.

A lot of non-Japanese 316L from the asian markets is low grade "dirty steel" , often recycled , often made from sheet deliveries with forged spec certifications and in some instances , lacks ANY Molybdenum at all !?

Many Asian watch cases are Machined, not cast , so one obvious deduction there is that that's an awful lot of gash steel that ends up guess where ? Yep re-melted and formed to be recycled yet again ..... and again .... and again .....


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> I have asked you to do this for me once before, but you failed to do so. Find me a new watch that has a sapphire crystal, 316L stainless case, well made strap/bracelet and a Japanese automatic movement for less than £100, that isn't a Parnis or Parnis sub brand.


 At the time you asked this before I posted a link to an Invicta that answered your question. I honestly cannot be bothered, but if you go and have a rake through the myriad of Corguet "homage" offerings you'll find some as well. Alpha also have offerings in the sub £100 price range with Miyota guts in them.


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> And to be honest, I think this can be the more "interesting" end of the watch collecting spectrum. And the lower price points, there is more variance and frankly more to debate and discuss.
> 
> I enjoy seeing most watches on here and learning about their breeding/quality/value etc etc
> 
> ...


 But if it looks nice and doesn't rust, like none of mine ever have, why exactly does it matter ?

PS, recycling is good for the planet


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> But if it looks nice and doesn't rust, like none of mine ever have, why exactly does it matter ?
> 
> PS, recycling is good for the planet


 It may look nice and won't rust in the short term. But that's not the whole story with metal alloys. There is a degree of integrity to the steel in many aspects, again on a sliding scale.

And recycling steel is that way is NOT good for the planet in any way, shape or form if it's done as a consequence of machining rather than casting. It's a massively inefficient way to produce watches but is done that way because as I mentioned before , they can not get their hands on virgin alloys sheets and also have not usually got the machinery required to cast the cases. The gross inefficiencies are compensated by the off peak cheap power offered by China's dirty power stations ( terrible for the planet ). However, they seem to realise that they are poisoning their populations and have started to take steps to address pollution ( steel output is one thing that has been hit already as I mentioned before ) but steel recycling will also possibly follow as a squeezed industry. The jungle drums I am hearing from my buddies in the square mile is that certain areas of the Asian manufacturing economy are about to change hugely due to various restrictions and fresh regulation. How that will effect mass produced watches I have no idea .... but I would assume there may be some consequences somewhere down the line , possibly ( ironically ) leading to higher quality ( and prices ) in the pond you fish in.


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

i find that seiko must have used superb stainless in the 70s as even an abused case is never pitted even on the back dinged and scratched yes, but theres never any corrosion in the case, which is not something i can say for some of the 60s swiss watches ive had, which have been pitted especially an FL, and a few much lesser known brands that died in the quartz revolution...maybe its the colder European climate? As most of my vintage seikos have been Japan domestic.


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

WRENCH said:


> At the time you asked this before I posted a link to an Invicta that answered your question. I honestly cannot be bothered, but if you go and have a rake through the myriad of Corguet "homage" offerings you'll find some as well. Alpha also have offerings in the sub £100 price range with Miyota guts in them.


 Wouldn't all the same criticisms being leveled at Parnis also apply to Invicta, Alpha etc?


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

spinynorman said:


> Wouldn't all the same criticisms being leveled at Parnis also apply to Invicta, Alpha etc?


 Yes. :yes:


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

spinynorman said:


> Wouldn't all the same criticisms being leveled at Parnis also apply to Invicta, Alpha etc?


 ive never had invicta ive had alpha and parnis and found parnis to be better, i don't really know why they get such a hard time when we quiet happily accept copying by rotary etc. Maybe its just Parnis get too close?

[IMG alt="Image result for rotary homage" data-ratio="148.15"]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e1/8b/a2/e18ba26196f569526fc942def1c4c07c.jpg[/IMG]


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Nigelp said:


> i find that seiko must have used superb stainless in the 70s as even an abused case is never pitted even on the back dinged and scratched yes, but theres never any corrosion in the case, which is not something i can say for some of the 60s swiss watches ive had, which have been pitted especially an FL, and a few much lesser known brands that died in the quartz revolution...maybe its the colder European climate? As most of my vintage seikos have been Japan domestic.


 Japanese steel has always had a reputation for supreme quality in comparison to others historically.... I am sure that these days the playing field in the G7 Markets is pretty level but certainly historically I would not be surprised to see Antique Japanese pieces fair well.


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

[IMG alt="Image result for timex homage" data-ratio="103.36"]https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/292991012473_/Timex-Submariner-Homage-Indiglo-Diver-Watch-Monnin-style.jpg[/IMG]


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

spinynorman said:


> Wouldn't all the same criticisms being leveled at Parnis also apply to Invicta, Alpha etc?


 Invicta have to adhere to regulations that Parnis/Alpha etc etc do not. All their materials used would be properly audited.


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Invicta have to adhere to regulations that Parnis/Alpha etc etc do not. All their materials used would be properly audited.


 i suppose that would apply to rotary etc too then. It seems that parnis and alpha are regarded by many as too closely connected with the fake industry. Which would make sense as they are the only ones who do more or less exact copies with sterile dials which are reasonable quality arent they? Do you remember the big Marine Militaire bust up?

[IMG alt="Image result for parnis marina militare" data-ratio="100.00"]https://media.karousell.com/media/photos/products/2017/03/26/brand_new_marina_militare_44mm_watch_no_box_and_papers_1490529646_3e2cb5a6.jpg[/IMG]

a bit close for comfort that isnt it.

[IMG alt="Image result for panerai militare" data-ratio="114.16"]https://buysellawatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Snip20190705_51.png[/IMG]


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Nigelp said:


> i suppose that would apply to rotary etc too then. It seems that parnis and alpha are regarded by many as too closely connected with the fake industry.


 Although that is true I guess .. with me I have nothing against the Asian brands on that score. Basically because Global IP rights are completely ignored and the governments have actively encouraged Piracy and it is what it is. I would never buy a fake , and I don't like homages anyway so they would never be on my radar. For me, if they were not almost-fakes and look-a-likes and were unique and to my style, I would still avoid knowing what I have gleaned over the years from people-in-the-know about production materials. I just see it as "taking a punt" quality wise, which is something I personally do not do. Each to their own through ...



Nigelp said:


> [IMG alt="Image result for parnis marina militare" data-ratio="100.00"]https://media.karousell.com/media/photos/products/2017/03/26/brand_new_marina_militare_44mm_watch_no_box_and_papers_1490529646_3e2cb5a6.jpg[/IMG]
> 
> a bit close for comfort that isnt it.


 Also that particular model is notorious for some having a poor quality Seagull Clone movement. The crown stem has been known to snap clean away.... A new "seagull" movement is about the price of a replacement watch.... Hmmmmmmmm.....


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Nigelp said:


> i suppose that would apply to rotary etc too then.


 And Zeno, Steinhart, "Sm!ths" etc etc.

I'll get my helmet.

What's the difference between a borderline "Chinese" homage, and a European one ?


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Although that is true I guess .. with me I have nothing against the Asian brands on that score. Basically because Global IP rights are completely ignored and the governments have actively encouraged Piracy and it is what it is. I would never buy a fake , and I don't like homages anyway so they would never be on my radar. For me, if they were not almost-fakes and look-a-likes and were unique and to my style, I would still avoid knowing what I have gleaned over the years from people-in-the-know about production materials. I just see it as "taking a punt" quality wise, which is something I personally do not do. Each to their own through ...


 ive had a few homages over the years, Alpha PO, Parnis Portuguese and a Parnis LV and blnr. I had an Alpha pn daytona too. I even bought one of the MM's off an ebay seller. The only one that was slightly interesting was the pn daytona with the manual wind chronograph and acrylic crystal...i mean when am i likely to buy a real pn daytona of the 6241, like never lol...nevertheless like you im not keen on look a likes and prefer vintage watches anyway. So i soon got bored of them and wouldnt buy one again. I mean they are not even that cheap. The pn daytona homage off alpha was 150 quid and you can get some superb vintage watches for that...even omega and longines not to mention zenith and seiko. No i think it depends what people are into.








WRENCH said:


> And Zeno, Steinhart, "Sm!ths" etc etc.
> 
> I'll get my helmet.
> 
> What's the difference between a borderline "Chinese" homage, and a European one ?


 none i dont think a copies a copy isnt it?


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Nigelp said:


> none i dont think a copies a copy isnt it?


 Reaction, is the main difference.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Nigelp said:


> none i dont think a copies a copy isnt it?


 Does that Alpha come with a Certificate for its Chronometer status ?


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Does that Alpha come with a Certificate for its Chronometer status ?


 no i dont think so mate :biggrin:


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Does that Alpha come with a Certificate for its Chronometer status ?


 No, but that ad has me relaxed and fantasizing about Sophia Loren. :laughing2dw:


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

WRENCH said:


> What's the difference between a borderline "Chinese" homage, and a European one ?


 I had a Steinhart Model One which was well made, but weighed a ton. A lead brick strapped to my wrist would be more comfortable. Also the most expensive watch I've bought, by a long way. At least I didn't lose when I flipped it.

Had an Alpha Seamonster which had a loose bezel I couldn't find any way of fixing, apart from jamming it completely. Same problem on an Invicta.

Mind you, I've seen too many stories of loose/broken crowns on recent Orients to risk one of those either.


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

spinynorman said:


> I had a Steinhart Model One which was well made, but weighed a ton. A lead brick strapped to my wrist would be more comfortable. Also the most expensive watch I've bought, by a long way. At least I didn't lose when I flipped it.
> 
> Had an Alpha Seamonster which had a loose bezel I couldn't find any way of fixing, apart from jamming it completely. Same problem on an Invicta.
> 
> Mind you, I've seen too many stories of loose/broken crowns on recent Orients to risk one of those either.


 my alpha po end links only fitted with the original pins which were as straight as a dogs hind leg.

if they were new pins there was no chance.


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

WRENCH said:


> And Zeno, Steinhart, "Sm!ths" etc etc.
> 
> I'll get my helmet.
> 
> What's the difference between a borderline "Chinese" homage, and a European one ?


 About 5 Times the cost last time I looked....


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Speedy112 said:


> About 5 Times the cost last time I looked....


 Yes, and,

Chinese homage with a Miyota, naughty.

"British" homage with a Miyota, lovely .

OK I'm a hypocrite, I've got a couple of Steinhart homage watches, and according to that watch waffler on YouTube, they allegedly have "Chinese" bezels . I shall immediately adjourn to my "Smith's" shop and smash them up on the large anvil .


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

I didn't realise How a £60 throw away watch could cause such passion with people being so judgemental of others taste's ..Cant we just accept that we all love our watches for a variety of different reasons and sometimes if it tells the time looks Ok and lasts a few years its done its job...We are all fully aware of the paths to follow if we want something a little more reliable..but then again that's another arena of one-upmanship for some..


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Speedy112 said:


> I didn't realise How a £60 throw away watch could cause such passion with people being so judgemental of others taste's ..Cant we just accept that we all love our watches for a variety of different reasons and sometimes if it tells the time looks Ok and lasts a few years its done its job...We are all fully aware of the paths to follow if we want something a little more reliable..but then again that's another arena of one-upmanship for some..


 In all honesty, I prefer having a rummage in the TKmaxx bargains for £15 Timex. Only problem is I don't need 15. Oh, and then there's those Casio retro's as well. Guess what my mates are getting from Santa this year. :laughing2dw:


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Speedy112 said:


> I didn't realise How a £60 throw away watch could cause such passion with people being so judgemental of others taste's ..Cant we just accept that we all love our watches for a variety of different reasons and sometimes if it tells the time looks Ok and lasts a few years its done its job...We are all fully aware of the paths to follow if we want something a little more reliable..but then again that's another arena of one-upmanship for some..


 i can accept it i could not care less whatever anyone else likes or wants its fine by me. Probably like all these above they will have their say but at the end of the day they probably aren't that bothered. I say just buy a rolex or seiko and bugger the rest.


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

Something a little less contentious than the P word.... Don't Forget people that the Watchfinder sale ends in just three days time with massive reductions on the current "Hot pieces"..grab yourself a Ceramic Daytona for just £23500 reduced from £250000 current RRP £9500... along with many others that you may find yourself unable to resist...Be quick or you will surely miss out... :wheelchair: :yahoo:


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

Speedy112 said:


> Something a little less contentious than the P word.... Don't Forget people that the Watchfinder sale ends in just three days time with massive reductions on the current "Hot pieces"..grab yourself a Ceramic Daytona for just £23500 reduced from £250000 current RRP £9500... along with many others that you may find yourself unable to resist...Be quick or you will surely miss out... :wheelchair: :yahoo:


 im saving up for bonds LV

ive got 1800 quid.


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Speedy112 said:


> .grab yourself a Ceramic Daytona


 You mean like this? :scared:


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Speedy112 said:


> Be quick or you will surely miss out... :wheelchair: :yahoo:


 Remember to go to Specsavers first. :laughing2dw:


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> It may look nice and won't rust in the short term. But that's not the whole story with metal alloys. There is a degree of integrity to the steel in many aspects, again on a sliding scale.
> 
> And recycling steel is that way is NOT good for the planet in any way, shape or form if it's done as a consequence of machining rather than casting. It's a massively inefficient way to produce watches but is done that way because as I mentioned before , they can not get their hands on virgin alloys sheets and also have not usually got the machinery required to cast the cases. The gross inefficiencies are compensated by the off peak cheap power offered by China's dirty power stations ( terrible for the planet ). However, they seem to realise that they are poisoning their populations and have started to take steps to address pollution ( steel output is one thing that has been hit already as I mentioned before ) but steel recycling will also possibly follow as a squeezed industry. The jungle drums I am hearing from my buddies in the square mile is that certain areas of the Asian manufacturing economy are about to change hugely due to various restrictions and fresh regulation. How that will effect mass produced watches I have no idea .... but I would assume there may be some consequences somewhere down the line , possibly ( ironically ) leading to higher quality ( and prices ) in the pond you fish in.


 If that's the case I better buy some more before they run out :biggrin:

Point of interest. China produced more steel last year than the UK has in it's entire history


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> If that's the case I better buy some more before they run out :biggrin:
> 
> Point of interest. China produced more steel last year than the UK has in it's entire history


 Most Asian steel is remedial grade construction steel.

If you want to know how bad Asian steel can get , speak to any marine engineer who has occasion to repair blown turbine lagging shrouds on ships built in the far east. They have to test each failed panel for repair because they never trust the spec and obviously have to get the repair welds absolutely spot on with regards the welding consumables. In the old days when steel for ships was from the West, no such issues , but now almost no repairs are done to sheet steel failures without analysis first. That tells its own story. Also the Carbon content is sometimes so far off spec that a repair is not possible and entire sections of lagging shrouding have to be replaced with new locally sourced materials. In other words the steel is deemed so poor as to be not fit for welding at all.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> In other words the steel is deemed so poor as to be not fit for welding at all.


 And it rusts quicker than a Lancia.


----------



## stanley (Nov 20, 2019)

stanley said:


> does anybody know what number battery you use for a parnis pa6009 watch.





stanley said:


> does anybody know what number battery you use for a parnis pa6009 watch.


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

WRENCH said:


> And Zeno, Steinhart, "Sm!ths" etc etc.
> 
> I'll get my helmet.
> 
> What's the difference between a borderline "Chinese" homage, and a European one ?


 Usually better build quality, better movement, better case, dial, bracelet.

That being said many "European" homage watches seem to have some at least of their origins in China so it's not so much where it's made but rather it's overall quality


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

ZenArcade said:


> Usually better build quality, better movement, better case, dial, bracelet.
> 
> That being said many "European" homage watches seem to have some at least of their origins in China so it's not so much where it's made but rather it's overall quality


 I don't disagree with any of the above, but is their a little bit of hypocrisy perhaps ? Which is perhaps diluted with retail price.


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

WRENCH said:


> I don't disagree with any of the above, but is their a little bit of hypocrisy perhaps ? Which is perhaps diluted with retail price.


 I quite agree, people will praise one brand and hate another though I do suspect if the build quality was better there would be less criticism. Take Seagull for instance, the chronograph is well thought of in the WIS crowd in spite of it likewise being a bit of a throwaway movement.

There is also the problem of brands like Alpha and Parnis doing such blatant copies. I don't mind the odd homage or tribute to a long sold out watch or even just putting their own twist on something it's the blatant copying of other brands I think puts people off.


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

WRENCH said:


> And it rusts quicker than a Lancia.


 Blimey. You mean, before it comes out of the factory? :scared:


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

ZenArcade said:


> I quite agree, people will praise one brand and hate another though I do suspect if the build quality was better there would be less criticism. Take Seagull for instance, the chronograph is well thought of in the WIS crowd in spite of it likewise being a bit of a throwaway movement.
> 
> There is also the problem of brands like Alpha and Parnis doing such blatant copies. I don't mind the odd homage or tribute to a long sold out watch or even just putting their own twist on something it's the blatant copying of other brands I think puts people off.


 https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/diver-watch.html?p=2

Parnis do offer something away from the Blatant copies/Homages as do Steinhart with the Ocean2 amongst several others

As for "Usually better build quality, better movement, better case, dial, bracelet." surely that is a given as they are approx 5 times the cost of the cheaper brands.. but for me A copy is a copy at whatever price point.

What I strangely admire with Parnis is their honesty..unlike the recent review from Gnomon who were waxing lyrically about the Steinhart Ocean1 as if they have built a completely new design when in fact it is a exact copy of the Rolex yacht master but glad to see the nonsense has since been removed from their website probably after a call from the Heavies


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Speedy112 said:


> https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/diver-watch.html?p=2
> 
> Parnis do offer something away from the Blatant copies/Homages as do Steinhart with the Ocean2 amongst several others
> 
> ...


 It doesn't matter much to me either way I was simply responding to the question why not the same criticism of Steinhart and the like that Parnis get. My guess would be all of the above.


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

ZenArcade said:


> Usually better build quality, better movement, better case, dial, bracelet.
> 
> That being said many "European" homage watches seem to have some at least of their origins in China so it's not so much where it's made but rather it's overall quality


 Any item's quality has nothing to do with the country of origin. There will be many people that disagree with that statement, and many of them will be holding an a Chinese made iphone when they do it



Nigelp said:


> i can accept it i could not care less whatever anyone else likes or wants its fine by me. Probably like all these above they will have their say but at the end of the day they probably aren't that bothered. I say just buy a rolex or seiko and bugger the rest.


 Can't afford a Rolex, and my three Seikos are all over priced, so I disagree



WRENCH said:


> And it rusts quicker than a Lancia.


 I have owned many Parnis watches, and still own ten to this day. I can honestly say none of them have ever shown any signs of rust. Don't believe everything you read.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> Any item's quality has nothing to do with the country of origin. There will be many people that disagree with that statement, and many of them will be holding an a Chinese made iphone when they do it
> 
> Can't afford a Rolex, and my three Seikos are all over priced, so I disagree
> 
> I have owned many Parnis watches, and still own ten to this day. I can honestly say none of them have ever showed any signs of rust. Don't believe everything you read.


 "We" were talking about steel in general.


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> Any item's quality has nothing to do with the country of origin.


 I didnt say it did,Fiyta is a Chinese brand I dont see any comparison between them and Parnis. The issue is more regarding the quality control of a brand like Steinhart (and I only use that as an example not specific to that brand) Will be perceived to be a lot higher than say Parnis. That may not be the case and they may well be equal but if Parnis are perceived as a mushroom brand that produce all kinds of watches, sail a bit close to the wind on copyright and its place your bets on what you get and good luck chasing a refund you simply cant compare the two. Likewise the movements being used. One brand uses mid to top range ETA the other uses clone ETA and Seagull. One is a tried and trusted movement and will give you years of use, easily accessible parts and people who can service them the other is a throwaway movement of questionable quality.

The dials, cases, bracelets etc of any number of micro brands and even a few high end brands may have parts made in China thats not really relevant if those same parts are then checked, assembled and put to the same level of quality control as any say Swiss or German made part.

As I have previously said, it matters not to me, I am no fan of homage watches of any brand really and I have heard the argument 1000 times even the "I can keep my sub at home and wear my Steinhart" Doesnt make much sense to me, why not just spend £400 on a different kind of watch to vary your collection?


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

I'll tell you what. Parnis advertising slogan.

Forget about quality, If you want an argument buy a Parnis.

:laughing2dw:

This reminds me of the look on kids faces when their granny tells them the trainers they've bought them for their birthday out of Primark are the same as Adidas.

Apologies Parnis owners, I do have some totally appalling watches. :sorry:


----------



## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

WRENCH said:


> This reminds me of the look on kids faces when their granny tells them the trainers they've bought them for their birthday out of Primark are the same as Adidas.


 :laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:

The best comment in the whole thread

:biggrin:


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

BondandBigM said:


> :laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:
> 
> The best comment in the whole thread
> 
> :biggrin:


 




are you getting enough?


----------



## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Nigelp said:


> are you getting enough?


 :laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

WRENCH said:


> I'll tell you what. Parnis advertising slogan.
> 
> Forget about quality, If you want an argument buy a Parnis.
> 
> ...


 Brilliant... :laughing2dw:


----------



## Bonzodog (Aug 29, 2018)

Had chance to handle a Parnis yesterday,a mate of mine wanted a beater.His high end watches rarely leave his safe.I don't have a dog in this fight these are just observations.The model in question was a speed master copy,looked ok from a distance ,edges of lugs and bracelet were sharp,felt cheap in the hand.Hes pleased with it for sub £100.00 ,I think for the money a better beater could be found,but what do I know.


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Bonzodog said:


> Had chance to handle a Parnis yesterday,a mate of mine wanted a beater.His high end watches rarely leave his safe.I don't have a dog in this fight these are just observations.The model in question was a speed master copy,looked ok from a distance ,edges of lugs and bracelet were sharp,felt cheap in the hand.Hes pleased with it for sub £100.00 ,I think for the money a better beater could be found,but what do I know.


 Maybe there's a market for Parnis bracelets engraved "My Omega is in the safe".


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

spinynorman said:


> Maybe there's a market for Parnis bracelets engraved "My Omega is in the safe".


 I'll get my nomos out, my parnis has had enough action this week. O ME G Awww'd I think it might be safer to stick to rolex or seiko. You can get away with such statements as 'im fidling with my rolex crown'

my other watch is a rolex :laugh:



BondandBigM said:


> :laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:


 my parnis got me in trouble today, so im sticking out with my nomos


----------



## Allthingsmustpass (Nov 21, 2017)

"Won" one the other night on the bay. New automatic blue sterile dial subalike on a seat belt nato, which bizarrely has an omega symbol on the buckle. £5.09 plus £15 postage. Assuming the movement is either seagull, myota, or hopefully Seiko, plus a useful nato, I can scrap the case and still be happy with the deal.


----------



## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Homage watches (or whatever you prefer to call them) - Round & round & round we go. where we`re going nobody knows​
​
​





​
​
​


----------



## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Bonzodog said:


> Had chance to handle a Parnis yesterday,a mate of mine wanted a beater.


 Dirty boy! :laughing2dw:


----------



## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Roger the Dodger said:


> Dirty boy! :laughing2dw:


 [IMG alt="Image result for steptoe senior" data-ratio="78.53"]https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1347645052/steptoe.jpg[/IMG]


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Roger the Dodger said:


> Dirty boy! :laughing2dw:


 Got to watch that spellchecker when entering "Parnis" . Missus.

:laughing2dw:


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

ZenArcade said:


> I didnt say it did,Fiyta is a Chinese brand I dont see any comparison between them and Parnis. The issue is more regarding the quality control of a brand like Steinhart (and I only use that as an example not specific to that brand) Will be perceived to be a lot higher than say Parnis. That may not be the case and they may well be equal but if Parnis are perceived as a mushroom brand that produce all kinds of watches, sail a bit close to the wind on copyright and its place your bets on what you get and good luck chasing a refund you simply cant compare the two. Likewise the movements being used. One brand uses mid to top range ETA the other uses clone ETA and Seagull. One is a tried and trusted movement and will give you years of use, easily accessible parts and people who can service them the other is a throwaway movement of questionable quality.
> 
> The dials, cases, bracelets etc of any number of micro brands and even a few high end brands may have parts made in China thats not really relevant if those same parts are then checked, assembled and put to the same level of quality control as any say Swiss or German made part.
> 
> As I have previously said, it matters not to me, I am no fan of homage watches of any brand really and I have heard the argument 1000 times even the "I can keep my sub at home and wear my Steinhart" Doesnt make much sense to me, why not just spend £400 on a different kind of watch to vary your collection?


 You are presuming all my watches are Chinese homages, and they are not. I own a Chris Ward, several Tissot's, three Rotary Les Originals, Seikos, Victorinoxs, and Orients, etc etc. I have also owned endless other brands, including an Omega and a Tag. My views and opinions come from ownership experience, as well as a reasonable knowledge. I am not influenced by brand name or country of origin. I don't pretend Parnis watches are the finest watches on the market, and I laugh when even typing that. What I uphold is they offer incredible value. Because Parnis are a mushroom brand, choosing the right supplier is essential. Regarding your comments about watch movements. All but two of my Chinese watches have Japanese movements, yet they are still sold at very reasonable prices. I appreciate you may not be a fan of homage watches, but the vast majority of consumables are copied from other products, it's just how life works


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

Maybe if the Spellchecker is Dangerous territory for the Parnis..then maybe we should consider the Pagani brand a safer option....Seiko Movement and bang for buck for those who enjoy the Look without the price Tag..Tin hat at the ready :robot:


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> What I uphold is they offer incredible value.


 :laugh:

If you genuinely think that then I guess this explains why Airport Airside shops sell so many Toblerones ....


----------



## Allthingsmustpass (Nov 21, 2017)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> [IMG alt="Image result for steptoe senior" data-ratio="78.53"]https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1347645052/steptoe.jpg[/IMG]


 This shouldn't be party political, leave JC out of it


----------



## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Allthingsmustpass said:


> or hopefully Seiko,


 You've got more chances of winning the lottery or me owning a real Ferrari than for twenty quid getting a genuine Seiko movement


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

BondandBigM said:


> me owning a real Ferrari


 I'm up for a cheap Ferrari homage if you can recommend one. :laugh:


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

spinynorman said:


> I'm up for a cheap Ferrari homage if you can recommend one. :laugh:


 the mondial used to be the cheap ferrari 'homage' a bit like the cellini is the cheap patek calatrava homage...allegedly :jawdrop1:

problem was the mondial always looked like it should have post office van written down the side. next to a 288 gto..[IMG alt="Image result for ferrari mondial" data-ratio="56.25"]https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/lP60J/s1/ferrari-mondial-8.jpg[/IMG]ne

A bit like the rolex is probably a cheap patek copy for the hard up? Well possibly not but.... :biggrin:


----------



## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

spinynorman said:


> I'm up for a cheap Ferrari homage if you can recommend one. :laugh:


 All you kneed is an old knackered Toyota, a bit of fibreglass and some resin

Job will be a good un

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

try a 400i or 412 and pray the manifolds dont crack or you will be into the price of a rolex LV for one side...



BondandBigM said:


> All you kneed is an old knackered Toyota, a bit of fibreglass and some resin
> 
> Job will be a good un
> 
> :laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:


 or a supra and chest wig


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

spinynorman said:


> I'm up for a cheap Ferrari homage if you can recommend one. :laugh:


 I saw a Ferrari, a Lambo and an Aston Martin parked in a line today in Chelsea ..... parked opposite was an MX5. Of the four cars , the Mazda was the one that looked really cool.... funny really.


----------



## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> I saw a Ferrari, a Lambo and an Aston Martin parked in a line today in Chelsea ..... parked opposite was an MX5. Of the four cars , the Mazda was the one that looked really cool.... funny really.


 :laughing2dw: 

yep you are the best comedian we have! that is well funny.

:thumbs_up:


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Nigelp said:


> :laughing2dw:
> 
> yep you are the best comedian we have! that is well funny.
> 
> :thumbs_up:


 Nope seriously.... Me and my Bruv both agreed .... the MX is the "cool" car ... the others looked vulgar. Especially parked outside of Jaeger , which incidentally furnished me with an exquisite PeaCoat....


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Here's a Mazda Parnis.


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

spinynorman said:


> I'm up for a cheap Ferrari homage if you can recommend one. :laugh:


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

Speedy112 said:


>


 At first I wondered where the tractor was, then I realised it was the car. Maybe it's my headphones.


----------



## Allthingsmustpass (Nov 21, 2017)

BondandBigM said:


> You've got more chances of winning the lottery or me owning a real Ferrari than for twenty quid getting a genuine Seiko movement


 You're probably right, but this particular watch they normally sell for sixty quid upwards, but this one they started at 99p with a finishing time when most UK ebay users are fast asleep, hence me getting it for a fiver plus postage. They dont make their own movements to the best of my knowledge, so it'll probably be one of the three I mentioned and that's fine. I've got a nice Ferrari for sale, £19.99 to the right buyer artytime:


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> You are presuming all my watches are Chinese homages, and they are not.


 Where on earth did I say that?


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Parnis have achieved something of spectacular note worthiness. They have managed to produce $50-$100 watches from die cast Zamak ( or similar ) and plated them in such a way as they look and feel like steel watches. For novelty value alone that is fairly applaudable. Of course the watches won't last longer that their first serious knock but the finish achieved in the first instance is convincing.

I am assuming that Parnis would not be tempted to use that for their "Premium" range seeing as they charge more for them .....


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

Maybe of use to those interested..








this is from the Official Parnis Website ..F.A.Q

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Speedy112 said:


> Maybe of use to those interested..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Who in their right mind would pay $109 for a die-cast metal watch !? There is a missing decimal point there surely.......


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Who in their right mind would pay $109 for a die-cast metal watch !? There is a missing decimal point there surely.......


 Better off with fine wine and Belgian chocolate.










And a big Parnis for the lady's.


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Who in their right mind would pay $109 for a die-cast metal watch !?


 I seem to remember my childhood Dinky/Corgi cars had "die-cast" as one of their selling points.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

spinynorman said:


> I seem to remember my childhood Dinky/Corgi cars had "die-cast" as one of their selling points.


 These were my favourites :


----------



## spinynorman (Apr 2, 2014)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> These were my favourites :


 Brilliant. Those probably cost the equivalent of $109 back then. Better value than a Pranis though. :thumbsup:


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Who in their right mind would pay $109 for a die-cast metal watch !? There is a missing decimal point there surely.......


 Nobody, because it's not true.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Who in their right mind would pay $109 for a die-cast metal watch !? There is a missing decimal point there surely.......


 £55 delivered. :wicked: :crazy5vh:










Owners club, that is. :laughing2dw:


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Parnis have achieved something of spectacular note worthiness. They have managed to produce $50-$100 watches from die cast Zamak ( or similar ) and plated them in such a way as they look and feel like steel watches. For novelty value alone that is fairly applaudable. Of course the watches won't last longer that their first serious knock but the finish achieved in the first instance is convincing.
> 
> I am assuming that Parnis would not be tempted to use that for their "Premium" range seeing as they charge more for them .....


 I don't believe that Jonny. I have had some Parnis watches for a number of years, and other owners on such websites have had theirs for a lot longer. I believe there are certain watch enthusiasts who can't get their heads around a manufacturer producing watches of a high spec for little money, as it kind of goes against everything they have believed in the past.

As previously mentioned I spend most of my working life as a senior retailer. Our buyers would take a £200 brand named garment to one of our factories and request they produce an identical garment with the same spec for a quarter of the price. Of course, the labelling and colours were different. The garment it's self was every bit as good as the branded item, yet people still insisted on spending 4 times as much. This was about perception. Your perception of Parnis is low for two reasons. 1. they are made in China, 2. They are inexpensive, and thus must be rubbish.

Parnis watches are not without faults, as their lume is normally a bit rubbish, some of their clasps are poor, and if the watch has a Chinese movement it may not be lubricated. Other than those factors they offer incredible value for money. The previous post indicating there are two qualities of Parnis is incorrect propaganda. Parnis.org claim to be the genuine manufacturer of Parnis watches, and that isn't true. All Parnis watches are franchised, and whilst it's true the qualities may vary, Parnis.org are no better than some of the other producers. In fact, Parnis.org are well known for their poor customer service, unlike the supplier I use.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> Nobody, because it's not true.


 Its on their website !!



Mrs Wiggles said:


> The previous post indicating there are two qualities of Parnis is incorrect propaganda.


 IT'S ON THEIR WEBSITE !!!


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Its on their website !!
> 
> IT'S ON THEIR WEBSITE !!!


 No, it's on the Parnis.org website. Parnis.org are not Parnis, they are simply one of their manufacturers. If they were actually Parnis they would not be slagging off their own franchised product. Parnis.org are simply one of the franchises who claim to be the only true manufacturers, but this isn't true.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> No, it's on the Parnis.org website. Parnis.org are not Parnis, they are simply one of their manufacturers. If they were actually Parnis they would not be slagging off their own franchised product. Parnis.org are simply one of the franchises who claim to be the only true manufacturers, but this isn't true.


 Bollux

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parnis_Watches


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

This Parnis lark is becoming an Education..Will the Real Parnis please stand up please stand up if there is One.....You mean there are Copies of Copies of Copies all made from different component's and differing materials and those who consume such products are expected to be able to tell the difference from a picture which may or may not be the Genuine copy of the copy or vice versa. :crazy5vh:


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Speedy112 said:


> This Parnis lark is becoming an Education..Will the Real Parnis please stand up please stand up if there is One.....You mean there are Copies of Copies of Copies all made from different component's and differing materials and those who consume such products are expected to be able to tell the difference from a picture which may or may not be the Genuine copy of the copy or vice versa. :crazy5vh:


 Well certainly it seems you can buy a $5 Zinc Alloy Parnis watch for a hundred bucks at the very least which is certainly an education.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> No, it's on the Parnis.org website. Parnis.org are not Parnis, they are simply one of their manufacturers. If they were actually Parnis they would not be slagging off their own franchised product. Parnis.org are simply one of the franchises who claim to be the only true manufacturers, but this isn't true.


 Oh and to confirm you genuinely are confused over all this Parnis stuff... here is YOUR watch you showcased TODAY on the WRUW thread ... here it is ...

https://parnis.org/collections/new-models/products/colt-33


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)




----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Oh and to confirm you genuinely are confused over all this Parnis stuff... here is YOUR watch you showcased TODAY on the WRUW thread ... here it is ...
> 
> https://parnis.org/collections/new-models/products/colt-33


 Glashutte in China is it ?


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Speedy112 said:


> This Parnis lark is becoming an Education..Will the Real Parnis please stand up please stand up if there is One.....You mean there are Copies of Copies of Copies all made from different component's and differing materials and those who consume such products are expected to be able to tell the difference from a picture which may or may not be the Genuine copy of the copy or vice versa. :crazy5vh:


 Precisely the problem with Parnis watches.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

ZenArcade said:


> Precisely the problem with Parnis watches.


 And the "duct-tape-engineering" at times. I saw a video online a year back whereby a watch repairer took one of the Parnis models apart because the fake Tourbillon had come loose. To be fair the guy was generally impressed with the $80 watch as he disassembled it right up until the point where he put the movement back in place and was about the secure the metal collar and he discovered it was not perfectly geometrically regular. He scratched his head and then a scratched the collar and some fine shavings came away. He concluded that the manufacturing process involved getting a load of over-sized collars in a job lot , and getting some poor sod to machine them slightly smaller to fit..... I can't find the video anymore , but there was also a blog picture version so I will see if I can dig that up , most educational.... :laugh:


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> And the "duct-tape-engineering" at times. I saw a video online a year back whereby a watch repairer took one of the Parnis models apart because the fake Tourbillon had come loose. To be fair the guy was generally impressed with the $80 watch as he disassembled it right up until the point where he put the movement back in place and was about the secure the metal collar and he discovered it was not perfectly geometrically regular. He scratched his head and then a scratched the collar and some fine shavings came away. He concluded that the manufacturing process involved getting a load of over-sized collars in a job lot , and getting some poor sod to machine them slightly smaller to fit..... I can't find the video anymore , but there was also a blog picture version so I will see if I can dig that up , most educational.... :laugh:


 I love Parnis threads because they raise more emotions than any other brands. It's quite strange that the vast majority of critics don't actually own one. Type in "Trust Pilot Parnis" and they get a 4.5 out of 5.0. What Jonny and I have in common is that neither of us believe they are the best money can buy, where we differ is that I believe they are possibly the best value for money watch that can be purchased. The stuff about them being made from coated junk metal is of course rubbish, but I am sure there are people that will believe this.

In my world opinions are based on experiences. As I have said before, I look at spec, I look at price, and I read reviews. In general Parnis watches come out very well, albeit they don't escape criticism (like anything). My experience of these watches has been excellent, and the two problems I have experienced have been sorted quickly at no cost to myself.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> I love Parnis threads


 I love them because you tie your self in knots. Your watch is available on Parnis.org, the official website of Parnis as stated in domain registrations, and on that website is clearly states they sell zinc-alloy watches for $100 ( die cast arcade machine quality ) and you said it was "propaganda" ?

Have you untied the knots yet or are you still a bit confused on this brand you claim to be so knowledgeable about ?

This was brought to you by the emotion-free Jonny-Old-Boy :thumbsup:


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

There's a thread on Parsnips been going on for about 7 years on WUS.

:sign_wtf:


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> I love them because you tie your self in knots. Your watch is available on Parnis.org, the official website of Parnis as stated in domain registrations, and on that website is clearly states they sell zinc-alloy watches for $100 ( die cast arcade machine quality ) and you said it was "propaganda" ?
> 
> Have you untied the knots yet or are you still a bit confused on this brand you claim to be so knowledgeable about ?
> 
> This was brought to you by the emotion-free Jonny-Old-Boy :thumbsup:


 I told you, Parnis.org are not the official website of Parnis.


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> I told you, Parnis.org are not the official website of Parnis.


 So what is?


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> I told you, Parnis.org are not the official website of Parnis.


 so

A. Why is your watch being sold on that website , why did you buy an "unofficial Parnis" ?

B. Lets have the link please to your "official website"

C. Why has Parnis registered ownership and operation of Parnis.org and why is it listed as their official website on every Reference page.

Its all very well "telling me" , but I could tell you that @wrenny1969 runs a carpet smuggling ring out of Casablanca but that does not means it's true ( although thinking about it, he is the sort for that type of shenanigans ) and without evidence you would perhaps doubt my claim.


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> so
> 
> A. Why is your watch being sold on that website , why did you buy an "unofficial Parnis" ?
> 
> ...


 More importantly why on the main page of that website does it say

"Welcome to Parnis official website"


----------



## wrenny1969 (Jun 24, 2008)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> so
> 
> A. Why is your watch being sold on that website , why did you buy an "unofficial Parnis" ?
> 
> ...


 Very special price offered to all members. Imagine budgie smugglers on steroids for when your own Parnis is a let down.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

There's a Discovery program that would be better than looking in Argentinian gardens for Hitler. The search for the source of Parnis. @JonnyOldBoycould get kitted out like Percy Fawcett with a Go-pro.


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

For the time being I am going to let this one go. I once read an article about Parnis that clearly stated Parnis.Org were not the official web site of Parnis, but I can't find it. One thing I can tell you is the product certainly isn't any better than my supplier, and from reports their service is a lot worse. This is wear it gets confusing. We all know Parnis is a mushroom company, and various factories have franchises. Why would Parnis condemn their own franchises, and why would they allow them to make a sub standard product when their name is at stake?

Just to get rid of another silly rumour. There are those people who believe the sapphire crystal Parnis put in their watches is mineral, or sapphire coated mineral. I have tested each and every crystal in all my watches, whether they come from Japan, Switzerland or China, and the reading is exactly the same on my diamond tester.

The most important thing is that I love the look of my Parnis watches, I love the weight, I love the fact the Japanese movements in them are reliable and accurate, and I love the fact I haven't had to spend a fortune getting the designs I like so much. I really don't think anything else matters unless I start getting obsessed with brand names, like some others on here :biggrin:


----------



## Yanto (Sep 27, 2018)

Serious question from someone who has never seen any Parnis models 'In the flesh'. How many different models are of their own design? Or do they just do copies?


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> We all know Parnis is a mushroom company,


 Does that mean they keep you in the dark and feed you manure ?

(Other terms for manure apply)


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> I once read an article about Parnis that clearly stated Parnis.Org were not the official web site of Parnis


 And that's your basis for denial of reality ?


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

Yanto said:


> Serious question from someone who has never seen any Parnis models 'In the flesh'. How many different models are of their own design? Or do they just do copies?


 https://parnis.org/

I am unable to confirm whether this is the best site to obtain the brand...


----------



## Yanto (Sep 27, 2018)

Speedy112 said:


> https://parnis.org/
> 
> I am unable to confirm whether this is the best site to obtain the brand...


 Thanks. That's answered my question


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Yanto said:


> Thanks. That's answered my question


 And what's your conclusion ?

I think the "company" is a bit more than naughty using respected brand names to title ranges in their products.


----------



## Yanto (Sep 27, 2018)

WRENCH said:


> And what's your conclusion ?
> 
> I think the "company" is a bit more than naughty using respected brand names to title ranges in their products.


 I totally agree. Not interested


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> And that's your basis for denial of reality ?


 I sometimes watch ancient aliens on the history channel, I compare Parins watches to one of those programmes. Good fun to watch but who in their right mind would buy into this nonsense? :laugh:


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

ZenArcade said:


> I sometimes watch ancient aliens on the history channel, I compare Parins watches to one of those programmes. Good fun to watch but who in their right mind would buy into this nonsense? :laugh:


 I LOVE the guy with the Hair and the Aircraft Broach .... do you think he buys watches from the mystical East !? :laugh:


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> I LOVE the guy with the Hair and the Aircraft Broach .... do you think he buys watches from the mystical East !? :laugh:


 Is he the bloke who looks like he stuck his finger in an electric socket? :laugh: He must have a few quid in his back pocket to go about the four corners of the earth talking about little green men building pyramids and setting up the US constitution :laugh:

I am looking forward to season 6 "Parnis built by ancient aliens to defeat the Rolex stranglehold on the luxury watch market"


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

ZenArcade said:


> I am looking forward to season 6 "Parnis built by ancient aliens to defeat the Rolex stranglehold on the luxury watch market"


 That's after "Hunting Hitlers Parnis". And "Parnis, the secret of Machu Picchu."


----------



## Jet Jetski (Feb 10, 2019)

I keep looking at the Corgeut railmaster homages. But only looking. I think it's terrible. Still.


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

Jet Jetski said:


> I keep looking at the Corgeut railmaster homages. But only looking. I think it's terrible. Still.


 I post on several watch sites under different user names, but this one has the most watch snobs. Well done, and keep up the good work



JonnyOldBoy said:


> And the "duct-tape-engineering" at times. I saw a video online a year back whereby a watch repairer took one of the Parnis models apart because the fake Tourbillon had come loose. To be fair the guy was generally impressed with the $80 watch as he disassembled it right up until the point where he put the movement back in place and was about the secure the metal collar and he discovered it was not perfectly geometrically regular. He scratched his head and then a scratched the collar and some fine shavings came away. He concluded that the manufacturing process involved getting a load of over-sized collars in a job lot , and getting some poor sod to machine them slightly smaller to fit..... I can't find the video anymore , but there was also a blog picture version so I will see if I can dig that up , most educational.... :laugh:


 I watched a video about Rolex watches. Apparently they are all made out of tin and coated in silver paint. The movements are made in Singapore, and the straps made from recycled plastic. Bollocks of course, but no worse than what you just wrote :biggrin:

Seriously Jonny, I post on many forums, including football and politics. There are so many members that believe they know everything, but in reality are narrow minded and know very little. Congratulations, you rank amongst the best of them. Someone once said, if you can't prove a point with fact, just make it up !!


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> Seriously Jonny, I post on many forums, including football and politics. There are so many members that believe they know everything, but in reality are narrow minded and know very little. Congratulations, you rank amongst the best of them. Someone once said, if you can't prove a point with fact, just make it up !!


 Says the person who bought a watch from Parnis.org without realising it.


----------



## Jet Jetski (Feb 10, 2019)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> the most watch snobs


 at last I, made it! :laughing2dw:



Mrs Wiggles said:


> Seriously Jonny, I post troll on many forums


 sorted lol


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

Jet Jetski said:


> I keep looking at the Corgeut railmaster homages. But only looking. I think it's terrible. Still.


----------



## Jet Jetski (Feb 10, 2019)

watch snob!

[IMG alt="No photo description available." data-ratio="34.59"]https://scontent.flhr4-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73372299_160642661673646_9178455049829875712_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ohc=yIOBrakvQPAAQlQW5ER3Aov8aEM-K7EWO-rrd-y1NXDPC06it449Rsu_g&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr4-2.fna&oh=364c22bb7569fb2a81993b1ef9f8f9fe&oe=5E4B39F7[/IMG]



Speedy112 said:


>


 thanks - I had looked at that, but it's a bit of a homage of a tribute, with the fake patina (I prefer the blue one), and I have been looking ay a vintage diver with a 'real' streaky dial - so it's not really ticking my boxes quite right - a bit like Rado watches - nice but not enough to pull the trigger.


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Says the person who bought a watch from Parnis.org without realising it.


 I have never bought a watch from Parnis.org, mine come from mywatchcode. There service is better the product as good, and the prices better. As you have chosen to believe what Parnis.org write on their website, do you also believe that a luxury watch costs $80 to produce?

Copied and pasted from someone who appears to know what they are talking about, interesting.

Parnis is fine and if one enjoys them, excellent! I bought four in the last 10 years and all have been better than I imagined I could get for under $100 USD.

All used Chinese movements. One handwind that looks like an IWC handwind with a very long adjustment lever. One Unitas copy that is decorated to look like he Unitas movements in most watches including that cheap slimy brand Panerai which was proven to use standard grade ebauches worth about 50 bucks to a caser company in their watches which hide the movement. Another that uses the ST25 and one that uses a DG movement that is basically like the ST16 which bases itself off the Miyota 82 series but combined with Seiko's magic lever auto-winding design, also adds hacking function although a poorly done one.

All were cheap as chips to buy and got them from Manbushijie years ago with the latest purchase being a ceramic bezel submariner knock-off purchased off ebay. All bought brand new.

I disassembled the first three after years of use just to satisfy my curiosity. The handwind watches were SOOOO clean it felt like disassembling my Omega Seamaster. There was not a spec of skin, hair, dust, or fingerprint to my surprise since I've opened or seen Beijing watches and Fiytas with some fingerprints in the movement. This proves the Parnis assembly CAN be excellent although I'm sure this is not the rule like it is for Omega or even Sea-gull.

The ST25 impressed me so thoroughly I've been after a genuine Sea-gull with this movement on a watch I like and isn't 44mm or so. Partly why I disassembled those Parnis (too large to wear comfortably). The ST25 when I let the mainspring unwind using the improper method whizzed for about 5 mins like a powerdrill. Spinning all the gears at a rate that wears out 40 + hours of power reserve in under 5 mins. The movement design is Sea-gull's but it is a FINE as F* machine. lol I've just talked myself into getting another Parnis with a ST25.

On the case and dial, those older Parnis IWC knock-offs have perfect quality fit and finish but the material use is on the lighter end due to thin cases. But I really appreciated those watches for what they are and if they were swiss in casing and assembly origin while using cheaper Chinese movements or rejected Sea-gull movements, then still their prices would be several hundred more. Oh and I tested them in sink depth water and swam with the submariner knock-off version. All were fine with no sign of moisture under dial even when placed under heat source.

It just goes to show how cheap and easy it is to produce acceptable to decent quality hands, dial, and cases these days. Movements are the tricky part and assembly condition need to be kept excellent for consistent quality. But if one wishes to produce good quality stuff, Chinese watch factories (even the smaller operations) have the machinery and expertise in these departments. They just need to improve their style but give it a few decades and when younger generations are in charge of creativity, we're going to see more original and tasteful stuff come out. I mean Beijing, Sea-gull, Fiyta, Ebohr, Yelang etc already have some original designs that are not totally disgusting so I guess fewer reasons to buy Parnis.

The biggest issue I have with Parnis is the same issue they have a fair few customers around the world, they produce iconic and well established designs from historied brands. They do this with mechanical movements and do it for CHEAP! You could get several Parnis for the price of an Orient/ Seiko/ Tissot and the designs are nicer while the quality is the same.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> They do this with mechanical movements and do it for CHEAP! You could get several Parnis for the price of an Orient/ Seiko/ Tissot and the designs are nicer while the quality is the same.


 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


----------



## suzublu (Nov 16, 2018)

Just my tuppenth worth if I may, I've only owned one Parnis, a GMT Batman, which I had for a week, changed the strap, still didn't gel with it. On EBay now. Nothing wrong with quality, just too busy for my liking.

On the other hand, I've had 4 Corgeuts, sold 3, kept the best one, and these are good quality for the money.

My favourite of all my Chinese made watches is my Bliger "Seamaster" which is excellent all round (so far) I suppose there are quality differences in all the Chinese brands.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

suzublu said:


> On the other hand, I've had 4 Corgeuts, sold 3, kept the best one, and these are good quality for the money.


 I know we all have different thresholds , but for me sub £100 is a "disposable watch" so as long as its fit for purpose and lasts a year then everything is tickety boo. Corgeuts are easily in the "value for what they are" bracket and the story about them having to stop using the Tudor Rose for their BB copies says it all really , the quality was obviously sufficiently good enough for Tudor to get on their case about that.

Personally, copies are not my croissant-de-jour at any price or quality but I can appreciate the appeal for those who whom it is and the value for the object in hand is not in question I guess.


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

.



Jet Jetski said:


> watch snob!
> 
> thanks - I had looked at that, but it's a bit of a homage of a tribute, with the fake patina (I prefer the blue one), and I have been looking ay a vintage diver with a 'real' streaky dial - so it's not really ticking my boxes quite right - a bit like Rado watches - nice but not enough to pull the trigger.


 Have you looked at the Lord Sanford Skin Diver... I know less than nothing about the brand maybe @Always"Watching" can help but very similar in style..









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Jet Jetski said:


> watch snob!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Have you looked at the Lord Sanford Skin Diver... I know less than nothing about the brand maybe @Always"Watching" can help but very similar in style..









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

suzublu said:


> Just my tuppenth worth if I may, I've only owned one Parnis, a GMT Batman, which I had for a week, changed the strap, still didn't gel with it. On EBay now. Nothing wrong with quality, just too busy for my liking.
> 
> On the other hand, I've had 4 Corgeuts, sold 3, kept the best one, and these are good quality for the money.
> 
> My favourite of all my Chinese made watches is my Bliger "Seamaster" which is excellent all round (so far) I suppose there are quality differences in all the Chinese brands.


 Corguet and Bliger are Parnis


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> Corguet and Bliger are Parnis


 Curiously ... although the finer finishing on the Corguets is usually pi55 poor , they do seem mostly to be properly waterproof as opposed to Parnis Parnis watches which fog up if you even look at a picture of a swimming pool in a holiday brochure.... weird huh !?


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Speedy112 said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Just shows you how a quick look can lead to the wrong assumption.










Now, where's my Mary Whitehouse Space Man.



Mrs Wiggles said:


> I post on several watch sites under different user names, but this one has the most watch snobs.


 Nonsense.


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

This thread is just the gift that keeps on giving.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

ZenArcade said:


> This thread is just the gift that keeps on giving.


 A bit like Star Wars brushed cotton Pyjamas then ..... [ or is that just me ]


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

ZenArcade said:


> This thread is just the gift that keeps on giving.


 I like gifts. Even if it was a Parnis.



JonnyOldBoy said:


> ..... [ or is that just me ]


 Just you.


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

ZenArcade said:


> This thread is just the gift that keeps on giving.


 You have my word that I will never mention the P word again...


----------



## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

WRENCH said:


> I like gifts. Even if it was a Parnis.


 Watch snob


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

ZenArcade said:


> Watch snob


 Thank you.


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Curiously ... although the finer finishing on the Corguets is usually pi55 poor , they do seem mostly to be properly waterproof as opposed to Parnis Parnis watches which fog up if you even look at a picture of a swimming pool in a holiday brochure.... weird huh !?


 I have a Parnis 200m diver. I haven't dived in it, but have swam several times, It's as good as gold


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> I have a Parnis 200m diver.


 I think you mean you have a Parnis watch with "200m" written on the dial .... :laugh:


----------



## Bonzodog (Aug 29, 2018)

Well,love em or hate em ,it's certainly given rise to a lively discussion.


----------



## Speedy112 (Jan 24, 2016)

I like the way the @.org website shows you in the bottom left corner who has just made a purchase where they are from and what piece they have chosen..or is it just fake..


----------



## Bonzodog (Aug 29, 2018)

Speedy112 said:


> I like the way the @.org website shows you in the bottom left corner who has just made a purchase where they are from and what piece they have chosen..or is it just fake..


 That could be the $1000 question


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

Bonzodog said:


> Well,love em or hate em ,it's certainly given rise to a lively discussion.


 Have posted on several sites for a number of years, and it always does. Parnis broke the mould by producing watches with a relatively high specification for a low price, and there are those who just won't accept them. Of course, it's just Parnis, it's Chinese watches in general. Phoibios and Heimdallr make some fantastic watches, but many watch enthusiasts will condemn them without ever actually handling one. It's not surprising that it happens in other industries. People will happily spend a £1000 on an iphone, when Xiaomi make something equally as good with similar spec for 40% of the price. The iphone lovers will tell you the Xiaomi is rubbish, without ever using one. It's the way of the world, and I doubt things will ever change


----------



## Graham60 (Nov 2, 2018)

Speedy112 said:


> I like the way the @.org website shows you in the bottom left corner who has just made a purchase where they are from and what piece they have chosen..or is it just fake..


 I've noticed Thomas Earnshaw website does that as well.


----------



## Bonzodog (Aug 29, 2018)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> Have posted on several sites for a number of years, and it always does. Parnis broke the mould by producing watches with a relatively high specification for a low price, and there are those who just won't accept them. Of course, it's just Parnis, it's Chinese watches in general. Phoibios and Heimdallr make some fantastic watches, but many watch enthusiasts will condemn them without ever actually handling one. It's not surprising that it happens in other industries. People will happily spend a £1000 on an iphone, when Xiaomi make something equally as good with similar spec for 40% of the price. The iphone lovers will tell you the Xiaomi is rubbish, without ever using one. It's the way of the world, and I doubt things will ever change


 Courses for horses ,I think there is room for all tastes and budgets in this hobby.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> but many watch enthusiasts will condemn them without ever actually handling one.


 ..... and some enthusiasts will call them out having handled one with a wonky crystal and who saw the very same watch a month later being put into a bin after the crown stem snapped ..... and who then did some research and came to the obvious conclusions with regards risks.

I am always going to trust my own experiences and research rather than the word of someone with relatively low standards and poor eyesight.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

@JonnyOldBoyI know you like having the last word, but you're banging your head off the wall with this one. Give up, and buy a Parnis.


----------



## JonnyOldBoy (Mar 28, 2017)

WRENCH said:


> @JonnyOldBoyI know you like having the last word, but you're banging your head off the wall with this one. Give up, and buy a Parnis.


 I did actually buy the one my mate chucked in the bin for a quid .... I soooooooooo wish I had kept it, but it got "up cycled". A parent of one of my former students converted it into a paper weight ( true ). So my last word on this will be this : " The last time I saw that lad I can honestly say it was one of the nicest looking paperweights I have ever seen"


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> ..... and some enthusiasts will call them out having handled one with a wonky crystal and who saw the very same watch a month later being put into a bin after the crown stem snapped ..... and who then did some research and came to the obvious conclusions with regards risks.
> 
> I am always going to trust my own experiences and research rather than the word of someone with relatively low standards and poor eyesight.


 Is that another one of those things you have made up Jonny ?


----------



## Allthingsmustpass (Nov 21, 2017)

Well my twenty quid special has arrived. The nato doesn't have the omega logo on the buckle as per the photo, probably a good thing, but is nice enough quality, and seat belt material, worth half my outlay roughly.

The case is solid stainless with an o-ring groove and o-ring behind the case back, and a screw down crown which also has an o-ring. Neither of which means its waterproof of course, but they are there at least. Machining and finish is pretty good for the cost.

The crystal is flat with a cyclops and appears to be sapphire, but this I cant verify.

Lume isn't bad, nicely applied to the indices. Hands and dial nice quality, again allowing for the price.

The bezel is unidirectional without a great action, but I've come across far far worse. The insert is high gloss and etched not printed, not bad at all.

The movement is a generic Chinese Mingzhu, a slight disappointment but again, at the price what the heck. It has handwind and hacking aswell as being automatic.

£20.09! Not bad at all, but I wouldn't have been so happy if I'd paid the sixty and upwards they ask via buy it now. An Amphibia or Seiko 5 would be a far better bet, both in quality and far cooler.


----------



## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Allthingsmustpass said:


> Amphibia


 Yes !


----------



## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

Allthingsmustpass said:


> Well my twenty quid special has arrived. The nato doesn't have the omega logo on the buckle as per the photo, probably a good thing, but is nice enough quality, and seat belt material, worth half my outlay roughly.
> 
> The case is solid stainless with an o-ring groove and o-ring behind the case back, and a screw down crown which also has an o-ring. Neither of which means its waterproof of course, but they are there at least. Machining and finish is pretty good for the cost.
> 
> ...


 But even for 60 quid who else would give a watch with a quality NATO, a sapphire crystal, 316L case, and a hand wind hackable movement?


----------



## Allthingsmustpass (Nov 21, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> But even for 60 quid who else would give a watch with a quality NATO, a sapphire crystal, 316L case, and a hand wind hackable movement?


 Probably no one that's true. But I'd still swap it for an Amphibia or 5, but then I'm a big fan of both of those to start with.


----------



## ubik08 (Nov 4, 2014)

I have no problem with 'homage' watches as long as they are clearly labelled and are made with some quality control.

I have an Invicta Rolex Submariner homage. They are a cult watch in their own right and generally seem well made with a comfortable bracelet and all heavy duty stainless steel. I'm going to move mine on for spares or repair however as I've had it 6 years, the Seiko automatic movement loses time too much these days and it steamed up when I had a shower in it.

Nothing wrong with a stylish watch on a tight budget that's a copy, as long as Q.C. is still there IMO


----------

