# Military Watches



## m58dh (Aug 22, 2004)

Hi everybody, I joined the site a few months ago but haven't had a chance to post. Now that I've got the time I thought I shared something that's puzzling me!

A few weeks ago I got to thinking about military watches. What makes them so popular with members of the various watch websites? I know that there is a segment of the watch community who loath "military like" watches, thinking of them as rip-off's, non-authentic etc. What got me to thinking about this is that I'm a veteran of the USMC and the California National guard. In my six years of service (1977-1982) I was never issued a military watch!

When I went to the Marines (bootcamp) my Futura 17j manual wind was used as our firewatch timekeeper. Nobody around me including the drill instructors had issued watches! Next I was off to Com Ctr school, then to Okinawa Japan, still I met no one who'd been issued a watch. While in Japan I purchased a Seiko, it served me for the next 13 months. At one point I tried to trade the Seiko in for a Bulova (wrong move I was practically ejected from the jewelry store as the owner shouted "Bulova no keep time!!!").

Through out the remainder of my military career...no issue watch. You'd think that a watch would be important in my MOS, I was a Communication Center Man, we really needed to keep accurate time as many of our top secret and emergency messages had a strict turnaround time.

A few years ago I participated in a military service on Veterans day. The coordinator was a Lt. Colonel of the National Guard who'd been to Iraq in the first gulf war. we had a helicopter flyover scheduled and she needed a "hacking" watch. Needless to say, she had to borrow my vintage Wittnauer because she didn't have one!

Recently I started questioning my other former military friends & family on whether they'd recieved a watch, their military experience ranged from the 50's through the current year (my nephew who'd just made it back from Iraq). There was Army Airborn, Navy, USMC, Airforce and everything in between, thus far I haven't found one person who was EVER ISSUED A MILITARY WATCH! One of my friends upon hearing this said "the Army owes him a watch!"

In my family 5 of 8 kids are former military as was my dad (a Korean war vet)none of us ever saw a "military watch! Am I delusional? Has anybody ever been issued a military watch? If so it would be interesting to hear about it, and your experiences with it. Over the next few weeks I'll continue my search until I finally meet someone who's recieved one!


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## vic.wootton (Mar 28, 2004)

Welcome, that's an interesting observation, I would have thought that the USA would have wanted their forces to have the best watches available, all of the other kit sure is. I believe that standard practice in the brit forces, in WW2, was only to issue watches to officers also if exact timing was needed a cheap stopwatch was issued to save the cost of a expensive chronograph.

Stick around I'm sure some of your fellow countrymen will drop in and post some pictures of their issued watches









Vic


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Welcome to the forum m58dh

I don't think they were issued very often in the British services either, here stories all the time about them never being seen by servicemen.

I did meet one guy once who's dad had one but that would have been in the early 60's.

I think Eddie on TZUK was issued one when he was in the mob.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

I suspect that US and UK forces have similar policies when issuing timepeices.

The G10, much beloved by many here is a MoD procured watch that is/ was issued to personnel going on a "job". They didn't get one permanently, just for ops.

So too, I guess for RN issue divers watches. You get one when you need one for an op, unless you dive every day.









RAF aircrew may get a watch and won't have to hand it back to stores when they are flying, little point, they'd be at the QM stores every day.

Most UK personnel will be using their own watches these days, G-Shocks from what I've seen.

Welcome to the forum m58dh.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Here's what my lad was wearing in Iraq in 2003 .... luninous face and nylon/velcro strap. Nobody in his unit wore a G10.


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## m58dh (Aug 22, 2004)

Very interesting observations thus far. I guess that maybe soldiers think much like the way watch collectors do, soldiers probably wear the watch they have the most confidence in. It's possible that the issue watch (if issued) would have been tossed in the drawer in favor of their confidence watch anyway. Since we weren't issued one, those of us who knew the importance of a good wristwatch utilized our own.

The watch that we used for firewatch (guard duty) was one that my mother bought me as a gift before I left for bootcamp. It was nice, but clearly not up to military service because by the end of my three month training, it had been dropped, stepped on, slung around, etc. At the conclusion of training it looked like it had been through a war!

Still it puzzles me that we weren't issued one along with all of our other equipment. In the military, time is important. I'm sure you'd all agree that insuring that assignments are done in a timely manner is crucial. This brings up another memory, I recall that alot of men didn't even wear a watch at all!


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## rodiow (Nov 6, 2004)

Welcome to the forum ,this is very interesting I just assumed when you joined up it was part of your kit?... ere ya go boots trousers watch.. ...see I know nothing about the forces , I have a few old pocket watches with G S T P on {what does this stand for?} a crows foot and a number..can you trace whoose watch it was with this number ?,


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I asked him of he wasnt concerned that it was a bit bright and why he didnt wear his G-Shock.

He didnt wear his G-Shock because it was too bulky, also that the watch he wore wasnt a problem during the day. A night or when on forward observation duties he covered it with a wrist band.

He has a G10 but only wear it socially!


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Maybe the "bosses" think that only NCOs and officers need to be able to tell time.
















The G10 which was/is the general service watch in UK forces is well respect by both service personnel and watch collectors.

http://www.dstan.mod.uk/data/66/004/04000400.pdf


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## MIKE (Feb 23, 2003)

Hi m58dh,

Welcome to the Forum.







Here's a watch that has been issued. This Type 111 SandY was worn by a pilot serving in the USAF flying C130's.

Sadly the watch was DOA as the battery had been left in and had leaked and coroded circuit board







a chance you take with old quartz watches









MIKE..

SELLERS PICTURE


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Mike,

Any chance of getting a new movement for it?

There could be some reference numbers on the engine that says who made it, worth a try.


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

> I have a few old pocket watches with G S T P on {what does this stand for?} a crows foot and a number..can you trace whoose watch it was with this number ?,


GSTP stands for General Service Time Piece (I think) & the crows foot shows that it was a military watch. I think the number indicates which branch of the services it was used in - Army, Navy or Airforce. Foggy is our resident miltary watch expert and he'll be able to answer these questions better than me


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## adrian (May 23, 2004)

My 'military' watch


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## Sargon (Feb 24, 2003)

I too was in the USMC and never heard of an issued watch. For Marines however that is not so surprising. I think most of our gear was unwanted cast offs from other services. The Marines never seemed to get the funding of the other branches. Our shelter halfs and other "782" gear was mostly Korean War left overs I think. I didn't wear a watch when I went to bootcamp, but after I graduated a got a cheap quartz military Timex at the PX. It had a green NATO band and I ended up trading it to another guy for a Sutton watch almost identical except for it having a camo NATO band. I still have it, but at some point it went through the drier and is a little the worse for wear.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

I had a Longines like the one shown when I was in the army.

I sold it for Â£30 many years ago? I bought it for Â£20!!!









A friend mithered me to sell it to him(don't know where he is now!), and in the end I did.

The regret I feel is still very large

The one shown has an asking price today of Â£1000!!!























Watches weren't issued except for some special purposes, but had to be later handed in. You had to buy your own.


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## Jules (Aug 2, 2004)

Maybe both rank (and being a bryl-cream boy!) does hath its privileges. I was an officer in the RAF at the end of the eighties, and as a trainee pilot I was issued with the G10 military watch after officer training and on commencement of basic flying training.

Perhaps the unusual thing about me was that about 18 months after issue my G10 stopped (battery?). I was at RAF Connigsby at the time and I went to the Survival Equipment Section to sort it out. It was in the run-up to the first Gulf War and things were a bit hectic. The Corporal "Squppier" just took one look at my G10 and then gave me a 7A28 Seiko Chronograph - you can see these on Foggy's website

http://www.freewebs.com/foggy69/seikointheukforces.htm

I think - and, like the man in orthopaedic shoes, will stand corrected - these were initially intended for Group 1 (fast jet) navigators to time way-points etc. Though some of the (much) more senior pilots on the Squadrons (29, 5, 229) did have them.

Pre-GW1 was an unusual time, normally the Squippers were quite parsimonious in giving out with flying gear - but around then it was different. Normally if you wanted new flying socks (lovely - 100% looped wool, no seams) you might get one or two pairs at a time if you were lucky. At that time when I asked for another pair I was thrown a bale of them! I obviously shared them out with the lads - but this was certainly a departure from the "I can't give you that - someone might need it" mentality.

On the associated subject of handing kit back, the only things I had to hand back on leaving were a knackered NBC suit and - I kid you not - a Tommy Atkins style soupbowl helmet. I didn't have to hand in my watch or my G10 repirator, but I did have to hand back a helmet that would have been laughed off the battlefield by friend and foe alike. In fairness I think that was because they were on the station inventory and everything else was personally signed to me.


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## Foggy (Feb 25, 2003)

> GSTP stands for General Service Time Piece (I think) & the crows foot shows that it was a military watch. I think the number indicates which branch of the services it was used in - Army, Navy or Airforce. Foggy is our resident miltary watch expert and he'll be able to answer these questions better than me


Sort of, Paul









GSTP is either as you say, or General Service Temporary Pattern. Either is considered correct. The crows foot indicates government property. The numbers on GSTP's don't indicate which branch they were originally issued in. This comes much later, with NATO stock codes (eg W10, 6B, 0552, 0555 etc). The GSTP's were used by all branches of the military., so the number is just a unique identifier for that given watch. It's not possible to trace who they were issued to (unfortunately)

Cheers

Foggy


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Had a chat with someone yesterday who saw some action in WW2 in Europe. He was never issued with a watch and, as far as he can recall, none of his mates were ever issued with one either. So, perhaps as others have said, it was officers only and/or as and when one was actually required for some specific purpose.


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## Padraig (Jan 16, 2005)

We were issued watches before we went out on patrol and had to hand them back when we returned









No wonder the British Army is in such a state









During the first Gulf war I wore a Seiko automatic that I got from my folks as a present, it served me well, but I lost it one night in Germany, oh that German beer


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## m58dh (Aug 22, 2004)

Great responses guys! I've continue to ask around and still haven't found anyone who recieved one. A couple of you mentioned pilots receiving watches, I never thought about it before but a accurate watch would be essential to them. I'm wondering how many of them chose their own watch (probably a Chronograph) over the one they were issued.

I'm sure the RAF had some great issue watches for their pilots (it seems most great pilots watches were for the RAF) but for the life of me, I'm not sure which model the U.S. pilots would wear.

Something else that was mentioned by one of the members was the G-shock, I too have heard that a lot of military/law inforcement etc. choose this watch. However, does the G-shock have the ability to display military time? The military doesn't use standard time, instead of 1:30PM they'd say the time is 13:30, heck I'm not sure if the military even utilizes the same calander as civilians do. When I was in, we used the julian date calander, can't remember how the date was written out but it was different than the way we tend to write the date in our everyday lives.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

m58dh said:


> Great responses guys! I've continue to ask around and still haven't found anyone who recieved one. A couple of you mentioned pilots receiving watches, I never thought about it before but a accurate watch would be essential to them. I'm wondering how many of them chose their own watch (probably a Chronograph) over the one they were issued.
> 
> I'm sure the RAF had some great issue watches for their pilots (it seems most great pilots watches were for the RAF) but for the life of me, I'm not sure which model the U.S. pilots would wear.
> 
> ...


I don't know what your given name is m58dh and I'd rather be less formal.









Mine is Stan.
















I suspect that a G-Shock could display the time in either format, 12 hour or 24 hour at the push of a few buttons.







Or much less.









Yes, we did use the Julian calender in my mob and we used GMT as a major guideline. The only discrepancy between US and UK forces I saw was the way the DATE was presented.

Without bringing back painful memories for our US cousins, but to site an example, I will state that the UK method of presenting the same date would have been 11/9.

We transpose the day and month.

No big deal that two country's have a minor anomaly when they have so much in common.









I still didn't get a watch issued to me, my boss told me when to go and how high to jump when I was required to. I don't know what he wore on his wrist but I had a no-named LCD quartz on mine.

The time seemed compliant on his and mine at the time.









As far as I remember, we did what was asked. OK









I'm glad that even the cheap watches available now keep our bods on time.









Our squadies are now specialists not just canon fodder, perhaps not so than in my recuring dreams.









Never mind.









I have a watch.


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## Sargon (Feb 24, 2003)

When I was in the Marines we also wrote the date this way. Has nothing to do with the Julian calandar. That is what the Greek Orthodox church uses and why they have holidays two weeks later than the other Christians. In the Marines todays date would be 30/1/05. This is also how it is generally used in Europe I believe, and maybe that is why we did it that way, NATO must be standardized. It certainly is more logical day month year, than the standard month day year. Took me a little while to figure out how to read the date after discharge.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

when I was in we'd use local time when on normal duties but as soon as we entered an exercise (I never saw combat service) we'd revert to Zulu (or GMT) time. I never understood why they did that really, I mean a little 24 hour ex at some remote outpost of an airstrip miles from civilisation needs to change the time for a day and then change back again!

I might have known the zobs would have been given watches though eh Stan


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## m58dh (Aug 22, 2004)

I'm not saying that everyone used the Julian date, only that we did in the USMC communication center's across the globe.

By the way everyone, my name is Michael, I use m58dh because it's my initials and year of birth. I'm getting up in the years so I have to use a moniker that I'd never forget even if I bump my head and lost my memory!


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Welcome Michael, nice to have a name to the username.


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## Nalu (Nov 28, 2003)

Coming up on 25 years in the US Army and I've never been issued a watch. That includes units ranging from Special Operations to Armored Cavalry and everything in between.

I have had mates in SOF and covered units who have been issued watches with the other custom kit they get. Most commonly it's been a Suunto. As pointed out above, G-Shocks and cheap Timex's are very common with the squaddies. If it breaks, you just buy a new one. The PXs here are selling the Timex SandY lookalike by the bucketload.

There is definitely a long history of military watches that either were issued or purpose-designed. I'm still looking for the ultimate military field watch and I believe I'm coming down to modifying a certain well-known diver to get it.
















I brought a fistful of watches with me to Iraq this time. The most coveted watch is my Casio Pathfinder GPS watch - everyone notices it, not the least because it's huge. It has been very useful and I don't go anywhere without it at least stowed in a cargo pocket. My most worn watch is an H3, however I wouldn't call it the ultimate field watch (though I've seen a few around on wristshere) because I think it's _too bright_. I wouldn't wear it out on a patrol, but around a hospital it's pretty damn good.

This topic comes up from time to time and each time I think about getting watches for my unit. It's about time Uncle Sam did get us watches!


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## davec (Dec 25, 2004)

MIKE said:


> Hi m58dh,
> 
> Welcome to the Forum.
> 
> ...


No offense but that might be the ugliest mil watch that I have ever seen. Looks like something you'd find in a Cracker Jack box.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Nalu said:


> Coming up on 25 years in the US Army and I've never been issued a watch. That includes units ranging from Special Operations to Armored Cavalry and everything in between.
> 
> I have had mates in SOF and covered units who have been issued watches with the other custom kit they get. Most commonly it's been a Suunto. As pointed out above, G-Shocks and cheap Timex's are very common with the squaddies. If it breaks, you just buy a new one. The PXs here are selling the Timex SandY lookalike by the bucketload.
> 
> ...


Hard to beat this. Very happy with mine...............O & W M5


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## m58dh (Aug 22, 2004)

Hey Griff,

That is a great watch! In fact I just ordered one yesterday from Howard Marx here in California. I went crazy buying watches the past two weeks. I bought a Russian Poljot "Arctic," A Hamilton Khaki mechanical, a RLT5 from Roy (gotta go pick it up at the post office today!) the M-5 from Howard and a Citizen auto from Reto!

Can't wait for the M-5, is the case stainless or bead blasted? If it's not blasted I plan on having it blasted. I'm also considering a yao dial.

Michael (m58dh)


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## Nalu (Nov 28, 2003)

Yes, I've got an M6 (or is it an M4 - it's the M5 with the 60 min bezel) that I like a lot.

Problem is, we may need a more unisex looking watch since I've got women on the team. I'll bring it up with the team and see what kind of reaction I get.

I mention it here because I'm thinking of asking Roy to print a custom dial for the project (it would be at least 20 watches).


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

what on earth do you mean by a "unisex" watch?


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

pg tips said:


> what on earth do you mean by a "unisex" watch?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One that doesn't just look like it belongs on the wrist of a hairy arsed ground pounder.























A medium sized watch like the G10 would be about right.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

If a military girl can't wear a mans watch she shouldn't have enlisted!


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)




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## Nalu (Nov 28, 2003)

Spot on, Stan.

I've got 5 women on my surgical team and none of them are exactly door-kickers.

PG, if were to rely solely on 'murses', I'd never fill my team. Besides, there are plenty of men who don't like to wear giant watches on smallish wrists. Or giant watches at all.

Another consideration is that a big/tall watch tends to catch on kit (rucks, ballistic vests, etc.), so some guys like low profile milwatches. That's one of the most attractive features of the RLT Diver - it fits as nicely under the cuff as an SMP.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Just finished reading terry pratchett's monstrous regiment. Most of the "men" in the army turn out to be women. good read though.


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