# Junghans High Tech - Yet Another Non-Seiko 7A38



## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

As you may know, I try to 'limit' my watch obsession to collecting Seiko 7A38's and their various derivatives. However, with the many other manufacturers who used this 15J quartz calibre, it still gives me plenty of scope. It doesn't stop me appreciating, and lusting after other watches though - particularly nice chronograph designs.

Last year sometime, idly mulling over whether I could justify buying myself a 'Max Bill' Chronoscope re-issue ....

I was scrolling through the literally hundreds of images returned by a google search on 'Junghans chronograph', when I came across a small thumbnail photo. Clicking on it produced a larger image of what was obviously a 7A38:








The image was from an auction of Antiques, Art, Western Memorabilia and Firearms held in Arizona on 6th May, 2007 (by Reata Pass Auctions - Lot #396)

http://www.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?co=23589&weiid=1001973&lang=En

Description: Junghans High Tech Chronograph gentleman's wristwatch with tach, stopwatch, and other features.

Estimate: $350.00 - $650.00. In fact, the auctioneers were wide of the mark. On the day, Price Realized: $100.00

I made a mental note to keep an eye open for one, and added another eBay saved favourite search (or two).

Nothing came up for ages. :sadwalk: Then, earlier this month, two were listed on eBay, one day after another !


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Needless to say, although I'd known of their existence for some time, and was keen to share 'my latest 7A38 discovery' ㊙

I decided to hold off writing up this particular topic until I'd managed to secure an example for my own 7A38 collection. :naughty:

The first to come up on eBay, earlier this month, in Turkey (still in fact, a live Buy-it-Now listing) was this one:

*Vintage JUNGHANS HIGH TECH 15 jewels men's Wrist Watch*















































There isn't much in the way of a description other than the seller's somewhat optimistic condition ratings.  His idea of 90% - 95% and mine are poles apart. There's also a couple of pretty diabolical spelling mistakes.  He also seems to be under the misapprehension that his example (on an incorrect replacement bracelet) is worth *$300*. 

However, his selection of photos (complete with crisp crumbs) tells you almost everything you need to know about it.

The Junghans model number was 24/4610 - unusually the case-back is only a press-fit, rather than a normal threaded one.

The movement back-plate, again unusually compared to other 'non-Seiko' 7A38's, is not signed with any maker's name.

It's evidently the same blank 'generic' which I mentioned in the Cartier Ferrari Formula thread:



SEIKO7A38 said:


> You'll notice that both 'Ferrari', the prancing horse logo and 'CAL. 531' are *printed on* (ink) ....
> 
> in exactly the same place as 'SHIMAUCHI.Ltd' and 'V906' are printed on the Yema's backplate.
> 
> ...


Yet on this Junghans' version, *V906A* (the alternative Cal. #) is printed on the (otherwise blank) battery +ve terminal plate.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

A couple of asides ....

The results of more googling â€" not entirely unconnected with my passing interest in the Max Bill Chronoscope. :read:

Junghans Uhren GmbH, Germany's largest watchmaker was founded in 1861, and started making wristwatches in 1927.

This Wiki page gives more details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junghans

Junghans website (English version): http://www.junghans.de/imprint.html

In the early 1900's Junghans claimed theirs to be the biggest watch factory in the world:










From the (old) News section of their current website: http://www.junghans.de/news-detail-en/items/the-success-story-of-the-watch-with-the-star.html



> By 1903, Junghans employed 3,000 workers and sold three million watches per year, being the largest watch factory in the world at that time.












Junghans is a former subsidiary of EganaGoldpheil Holdings of Hong Kong, who went into administration in February, 2009.

See thread from last year on WUS: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/max-bill-watch-junghans-owned-seiko-380755.html Note post # 5 - definitely *now* German owned !

Back in the 1990's and early 2000's Junghans entered into 'master joint development agreements' with Seiko Epson Corp.

For example these press releases from 2003 and 2005:

http://cn.todayir.com/cms2/html/client/egana/attachment/20030905_Junghans-Seiko_20Epson_20Agreement_Press_Eng.pdf

http://cn.todayir.com/cms2/html/client/egana/download/news/2005/20050725_E.pdf

These agreements covered the joint development of Junghans 'Mega' range of radio-controlled and solar-powered watches.

It would seem from Junghans' use of Seiko 7A38 movements in their 'High Tech Chrono', there was also earlier collaboration.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Now, where was I ? :umnik2:



> .... Then, earlier this month, two were listed on eBay, one day after another !


Ah Yes. The first one (over-priced and on an incorrect replacement bracelet) was listed (for 30 days) on 7th October.

The next one was listed as a conventional 10-day auction on 8th October with an opening bid price of 4.99 Euros. 

Talk about 'London Bus syndrome'. Typical.  But I knew which one I was planning to catch, straight away. :naughty:

I already had them both on my eBay watching page, when a few days later, Kurt (a German 7Axx collector) ....

kindly emailed me a link to the second one - on eBay Germany, where one would naturally expect to find these.

By then, I think the price was already up to nearly 50 Euros. There was obviously interest from German collectors.

Undaunted, I avoided getting involved in any bidding wars - just went in and nailed it right at the end - for 94 Euros.

See: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260868828...NX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_2564wt_934

*WunderschÃ¶ner Junghans High-Tech-Chronograph+Day+Date,TOP-RAR







*













> *Hier biete ich Ihnen eine selten getragenen Junghans
> High-Tech-Chronograph,Day&Date,Tachymeter,GehÃ¤use gold/silber, Armbanduhr, an:
> Herren Armbanduhr Junghans Chrono, Day&Date,Tachymeter, RaritÃ¤t , siehe Fotos
> 
> ...


Bit of an O.T.T. description (when translated from the original German), and perhaps I paid over the top for it. 

To be continued .... HAGWE !


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Another slightly fftopic: ramble in this thread - but not completely unrelated. :wink2:

I've found, when I've done any amount of digging into another watch manufacturer's relationship with Seiko,

if that company, be it Yema, Orient or whoever, produced a 7A38 (however signed), a 7T32 usually followed.

It took me a while to find photos of one, but here's an all Titanium Junghans 7T32:



















Item # 250920290778, on eBay Germany - 2 bids placed, currently at only 2.00 Euros, with 2 days to go.

Gotta be one for any 7T32 collectors out there.

Note that 'Made in Germany' is conspicuous by it's absence (from the bottom of the dial), as with the 7A38.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

SEIKO7A38 said:


> It took me a while to find photos of one, but here's an all-Titanium Junghans 7T32:


Obviously wasn't googling hard enough - here's Junghans' all-Stainless 'World Timer' version:

See: http://www.keysauctions.co.uk/enlarge.php?lid=474254










.... and a nice big, but low resolution photo of the same Ti 7T32 model 41/2210 currently on eBay:










.... and another variant, in the same design case, the all-Stainless blue-faced 41-4192:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

I hadn't forgotten about this thread, honestly. :angel_not:

In the process of dropping almost to the bottom of page 4 of this forum section over the last month or so,

it's received some 400-odd views, so I guess a few readers were anticipating an update, sooner or later. :lookaround:

As you may have gathered from my slightly fftopic: posts 5 and 6, I was already stalling at that point. 



SEIKO7A38 said:


> .... and perhaps I paid over the top for it.


Yup, you guessed it. 

I'd gone and done my usual trick, and rushed in and bought almost the first one I'd seen on eBay

- and whereas it didn't exactly turn out to be a duff / wrong 'un, it wasn't exactly 100% right either. 

In hindsight, most of what was 'wrong' with it was clearly visible in the two eBay seller's photos:


















Having worked in the rapidly-changing world of computer spares support, I'm open to the concepts of parts supercession; engineering change orders, manufacturing deviations, etc.. It can sometimes happen in watch mass production too.

I'd already noticed that there appeared to have been two slightly different versions of the Junghans High Tech dial - one of them had tiny lume pips between the batons and the minute marks and the other (as per photo in post #1) didn't.

Different sweep second hands on the first two examples (and mine), as well. Mine had a different (flat-topped) crown too.

But a white on *BLACK* (German / English) day wheel used with a silver date wheel ??  Erm, I don't think so. 🇳🇴

I'm pretty sure this watch had been messed about with. :disgust: Note also the sweep second hand well off its marks. 👎

Which was a pity really, because the watch case and bracelet were in really quite nice, obviously well-cared for condition - apart from a few small nicks and light wear on the gold plated bezel ornament ring. Oh yes - and then there was the bracelet.

I'd looked hard at the seller's second photo, and before it arrived had convinced myself it was going to fit me. But it didn't. 

A number of removable adjustment links were missing (leaving only 2 - just visible, either side of the deployant clasp links).

It was sized for a small 7" wrist â€" so I needed at least one, and probably two more adjustment links to be able to wear it.

The prospect of swapping the day wheel for a matching silvery-white one didn't bother me.

But what was bugging the hell out of me (most) was the shortage of bracelet adjustment links.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

Funnily enough, earlier this week, there was a thread on this subject started on SCWF: Finding spare vintage bracelet links

It's worth reading, if only to see the lengths some people, including the OP, will go to to get hold of extra bracelet links. :read:

My first thought had been to try and contact Junghans in Germany to enquire if they still had any spares in stock. But their website made it pretty clear that they discouraged direct contact with end customers, and hobbyists like me. :schmoll: I toyed with the idea of a putting a WTB on uhrforum.de, but was put off by the thought of the sniggering which might ensue.

Later, I googled 'Junghans spares', and found they had an authorised UK repair agent - Jon Vincent in Hamilton, Lanarkshire. After several attempts (their phone lines are almost continually engaged), I finally managed to get though to someone. Indeed, I eventually got to talk directly with their dedicated Junghans repair technician, a friendly chap named Kenny.

At first things sounded hopeful. He told me that JV had purchased a load of obsolete Junghans spares from the factory. I described the watch to him, and later emailed him the couple of photos of the bracelet / links below:















The links are 19mm wide by 6.5mm deep, and removable ones are held together by the usual 1.0mm _Ø_ split pins. Kenny wrote back that he recognised them, and that he might be able to help me out with a couple of spare links. However, despite the initially encouraging noises, nothing was subsequently forthcoming.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

SEIKO7A38 said:


> Ah Yes. The first one (over-priced and on an incorrect replacement bracelet) was listed (for 30 days) on 7th October.
> 
> The next one was listed as a conventional 10-day auction on 8th October with an opening bid price of 4.99 Euros.
> 
> Talk about 'London Bus syndrome'. Typical.  But I knew which one I was planning to catch, straight away. :naughty:


In the meantime, my saved eBay searches turned up yet another one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260885546...WNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_597wt_934



> *JUNGHANS High-Tech Chronograph, Quartz*




























> *Selten!
> 
> Junghans High-Tech Chronograph Quartz*
> 
> ...


The part of the seller's description text in blue didn't set any false expectations .... but from his photos, it had the 'lume pip' version of the dial; the correct original sweep second hand, and most importantly, as far as I was concerned, the bracelet included *4* removable adjustment links.

My original plan being that when it arrived, to make one good (wearable) one out of the two watches. 🔨

I won the auction (for considerably less than I paid for the previous Junghans High Tech) on 12th November.

I'd also won two other auctions on eBay Germany that weekend, and paid for all three by mailing cash Euros.

The other two items had arrived on Friday 25th November. So I was getting a bit impatient for this one to turn up.

I checked Post Office Tracking on Monday 28th, and it showed that the seller had received my letter on the 22nd.

So when it still hadn't arrived, I sent him a 'chaser', via eBay. He replied the following day, writing something like:

'The watch is on the way! Kind Regards and Merry Christmas!'

I'm thinking to myself. Bah Humbug. Where's my watch ?! :disgust:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

The package duly arrived on Wednesday around midday; a strong foam-lined cardboard box covered in lots of tape.

I couldn't make out the date of posting from the postmark, but at first was just pleasantly relieved it had arrived. :sweatdrop:

I gingerly opened it, to find a handwritten note on the top, which said:



> Dear Paul
> 
> I send you the watch and because its Christmas a little surprise !
> 
> ...


Inside were two rolls of bubble wrap.

The first contained the watch pictured in the auction, grubby, complete with badly scratched crystal, rubbing wear, etc.

The second contained a used, but almost pristine Junghans 24/4610 nearly complete empty watch-case (less one pusher),

with a presumably full length bracelet attached, which had hardly any rubbing wear - including *SIX* adjustment links ! :clap:

So guess what I'll be doing in the run up to Christmas ? :naughty:

Not making one good Junghans 24/4610 out of the two, as I'd originally planned ....

But thanks to Klaus' generosity and festive spirit, I'll be re-building *two* of them. :hammer:

*Vielen Dank und FrÃ¶hliche Weihnachten zu Ihnen auch, Klaus !* :cheers:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

SEIKO7A38 said:


> But a white on *BLACK* (German / English) day wheel used with a silver date wheel ??  Erm, I don't think so. :no:
> 
> I'm pretty sure this watch had been messed about with. :disgust: Note also the sweep second hand well off its marks. :thumbsdown:
> 
> ...


A couple of Q&D photos of my original 'messed about with' Junghans High Tech that I rattled off this morning ....

Now fitted with (the best) 2 adjustment links which I've robbed off the second 'beater', so that it fits me comfortably.

Obviously still more work to do, to remedy its 'black eye', and I'm not 100% sure about the originality of the sweep hand. 





































Note: No mention of 'Made in Germany' (nor Japan) to be seen anywhere (externally) on the watch.

Sorry - no photos of the second 'beater'. It's in lots of pieces at the moment. :hammer:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

SEIKO7A38 said:


> I gingerly opened it, to find a handwritten note on the top, which said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Self explanatory - Klaus's nice little surprise. I didn't get a chance to take a photo earlier in the week:












SEIKO7A38 said:


> .... a used, but almost pristine Junghans 24/4610 nearly complete empty watch-case (less one pusher) ....


Swapping missing pusher(s) around between the watch cases will be relatively easy.

The pusher bodies are a press fit into the case, but the buttons / shafts are screw-in:


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

SEIKO7A38 said:


> I'm open to the concepts of parts supercession; engineering change orders, manufacturing deviations, etc..


Remember what I wrote about 'manufacturing deviations', earlier ?







Well, I honestly hadn't noticed this before. 

It was only yesterday, when I needed to tweak the little lugs on the deployant clasp on my first one that, in comparing them

with the clasp mechanism on the other two bracelets, I noticed this anomoly. Outwardly the bracelets look almost identical.










The top one is the empty watch-case kindly supplied by Klaus as his 'little surprise'.

The lower one is the second 'beater' (note the polished up / rubbing wear on the links).

Vairy interestink - Nichts ?


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

SEIKO7A38 said:


> Sorry - no photos of the second 'beater'. It's in lots of pieces at the moment. :hammer:


The dial / movement (and a couple of other bits) have now been re-built into Klaus's 'little surprise' watch-case and bracelet.

You can probably understand now why I was so pleased to receive it. 










Once I'd wiped off the dried-up residue from the Sellotape, which was temporarily holding the case-back in place ....

I found the original crystal had a couple of very minor marks on it (though they were barely visible to the naked eye).

I'd already popped the badly scratched crystal out of the other 'beater' watch case and measured it, for future reference.

It was 30.4mm Ã˜ x 1.6mm thick, with no beveled edge. So I ordered a Sternkreuz MSM304 as a replacement.

It's almost identical, apart from being 0.1mm thinner, and indistinguishable from the original crystal when fitted.



SEIKO7A38 said:


> The movement back-plate, again unusually compared to other 'non-Seiko' 7A38's, is not signed with any maker's name.
> 
> Yet on this Junghans' version, *V906A* (the alternative Cal. #) is printed on the (otherwise blank) battery +ve terminal plate.





SEIKO7A38 said:


> Note: No mention of 'Made in Germany' (nor Japan) to be seen anywhere (externally) on the watch.


The only place 'JAPAN' is to be found, anywhere on the watch, is discreetly stamped on the movement back-plate:










As I wrote previously, the case-back is (surprisingly only) a press-fit into that red hard nylon 'Sanfil' gasket.

Although marked 'WATER RESISTANT' on the case-back, I suspect this watch is less so than other 7A38's.

In contrast, the press-in / screw-together pusher assemblies are fitted with double O-ring seals. However ....

Although the crown appears to be of the waterproof type, it has no O-ring is fitted - another (green) nylon gasket:










Incidentally the threaded part of the crown stem is 0.9mm Ã˜ (Tap 10) the same as the Yema / C.G.H. Shimauchi V906;

The standard Seiko 7A38 stem (p/n 0354728) thread is 0.8mm (Tap 11) by comparison.

Here's a photo of the two of them together. I still havenâ€™t changed the 'black-eyed' day wheel of the first one yet:










Before I take off the dial, I'm trying to find a better (or should I say a 'more correct') sweep second hand first.

The more I look at the one that's currently fitted on it, the more convinced I become that it isn't original to the watch.

If the sweep hand on the second (LH) one looks vaguely familiar â€" imagine a black Seiko 7A38 sweep hand without lume.

Indeed, that is what I was planning to fit on this black-eyed Junghans â€" a black non-lume Seiko 7A38 sweep hand.

Which, incidentally, is *exactly* what appears to be fitted to his example, in the Turkish eBay seller's photos in post # 2.

This particular hand (in black) was only used on one non-lume 7A38 â€" the 7A38-727B, but was also used on other calibers.

I think I'm on the track of a suitable replacement hand, but Cousins Material House haven't been exactly helpful to date. :thumbsdown:

Here's what I have left over after the transplant / rebuild:










I wonder if I could interest that Turkish eBay seller in the bracelet ? :naughty:

Given his $300 asking price for his (unsold) Junghans High Tech (on a non-original bracelet), it's got to be worth $100.


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## SEIKO7A38 (Feb 12, 2009)

SEIKO7A38 said:


> I still havenâ€™t changed the 'black-eyed' day wheel of the first one yet ....


If not much else, I got around to swapping the black-eyed :black eye: day wheel on my original Junghans during the holidays.



SEIKO7A38 said:


> But a white on *BLACK* (German / English) day wheel used with a silver date wheel ??  Erm, I don't think so. :no:
> 
> I'm pretty sure this watch had been messed about with. :disgust: Note also the sweep second hand well off its marks. :thumbsdown:
> 
> ...





SEIKO7A38 said:


> Very obviously 'secondhand' - robbed from another 7A38, and as I had suspected, definitely not original to the watch. :no:


Q&D wrist shot taken at the weekend:



SEIKO7A38 said:


> Wearing what was my first erroniously black-eyed :black eye: Junghans High Tech 24/4610 ....
> 
> Now fitted with correct white English / German day wheel (day wheel / window and second hands now properly aligned):
> 
> ...


Couple more I took today in the appallingly variable light - read gloom, between the showers:



















Note on this alternative version of the dial there is no evidence of the lume pips between the batons and the minute markers.

The *JUNGHANS **HIGH TECH chrono* printing is also a lot bolder on this non-lume version of the dial.

In the photo below, by pure fluke, I finally managed to properly capture the true 'champagne' colour of the dial.


















Couple of after-thoughts / belated postscripts:

Why, given that they were in the process of developing the radio-controlled Mega 1, which was released in 1990,

did Junghans' marketing people call this watch - based on a 'humble' Seiko movement the 'High Tech Chrono' ? :huh:

If the watch had been released in 1983, at the same time as the Seiko 7A38, it might have made some sense. :dontgetit:

In the eBay feedback he left, Klaus, the seller of the second Junghans High Tech, wrote: 'GrÃ¼sse vom Black Forest!'

I obviously hadn't given it much thought before, at the time, but his postal address was: 78713 Schramberg â€" Sulgen.

Sulgen being a residential suburb of Schramberg. I later checked on a google earth map of the surrounding area.

It turns out that Klaus lives only 3 kilometres from the Junghans watch factory in Schramberg. Small world ? :lookaround:


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