# Seiko, What's The Hype?



## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

Hi all and great forum, I am not in any way trying to put down any brand in any way, only trying to understand the totally positive response to seiko watches.

I have recently been looking into getting a couple of seiko diving watches. Why a couple? Well after trawling the net and endless forums I have discovered the mods available through people such as yobokies etc.

I currwntly have a tag heur aquaracer 500m professional with helium escape valve and I love it. I also use a apeks 1000m for everyday use. After a little research and discovering the seiko tuna and baby tuna style watches, I have my heart set on a couple of different colours of ltd edn tuna 200m autos and a kinetic 200m diver. They look fantastic and the kinetic with a quick glance could be mistaken as a Rolex. However this is not my reason for wanting one. I want a tuna because I am a diver (instructor) however this is no longer my day job. I just really like the look and feel. Now because of all I have read I must have a j model because that is apparently what everyone wants. But why? Are these watches really as good as the likes of tag etc. I have been told that you won't find a more accurate watch brand. This may be a biased comment as it was from a seiko dealer. Can anyone help shed some light on why these watches are so coveted and popular?

I understand that they are in the mid range bracket so maybe that's the reason but are they mid range watches or are they top quality pieces like Rolex, tag and omega but with a more modest price tag?

Like I said I am not doubting the makes quality only trying to understand the logic behind wanting to collect seiko watches (which for a reason not known to me I now want to do)

I look forward to reading your responses.

Thanks

Jon


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## Trigger (Sep 16, 2011)

Fair question deserves fair answer. And here it is...


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

jnt1983 said:


> Like I said I am not doubting the makes quality only trying to understand the logic behind wanting to collect seiko watches (which for a reason not known to me I now want to do)


Logic really doesn`t figure in collecting anything...

http://en.wikipedia....y_of_collecting


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## Time Bomb (Dec 28, 2013)

I was in a similar frame of mind to yourself not so long ago. I got myself a Seiko 5 and have never looked back. For less than 50 quid I've got a watch that's been more accurate and a pleasure to use and wear than any other.

I think Seiko's are so popular because they have the performance to back up the reputation. Secondly and more interestingly to me is they cover every base. They have models to suit every taste and prices that range from sub 50 for basic 5 models all the way up to many 1000's for their more premium models. So everyone can afford one.


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## Muddy D (Nov 16, 2013)

I would not ever describe my as a Seiko collector and have watches I prefer, though my first half decent watch was a Seiko Bellmatic dating from 1970. I'm lucky enough to own some more expensive watches though the one which has given me the least problems over the years is the Seiko. It looks good and I know I can rely on it. I also enjoy wearing it safe in the knowledge, if I ever lost it, it wouldn't break the bank to replace it. Overall, I'm really impressed with the brand.


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

First point, Seiko aren't just mid-range watches, they range from the low end affordable watches to excellent high end offerings like the Grand Seikos at several thousand pounds .... The Apeks you mention has a Seiko movement, why? Because overall Seiko produce excellent reliable movements, both quartz and mechanical at both ends of the spectrum.

There is probably no other manufacturer of watches who produce that range and quality and in such quantity. Anyone here I'm sure who owns one, whether an inexpensive diver or stunning dress watch like a Grand Seiko will tell you the same...


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

Seiko make a wide range of watches that are accurate, solid build quality and with a good choice of designs. As a company their aim is to create the most accurate watches that they can.

I have a baby tuna limited edition - great looking watch with reasonable accuracy (automatic movement). I have a couple of kinetic divers and they feel absolutely bullet proof and accuracy is excellent. These have the advantage of a power reserve of up to six months so you do not have to re-set them is not worn for a few days.

With these costing in the Â£200 to Â£300 price range they are great everyday watches that really do everything needed of a watch.When you move up from this sort of price then you are buying more than just a watch.

I have a Grand Seiko ltd edition quartz that has a claimed accuracy of 5 seconds per year and because the battery can be changed without exposing the movement to air/dust, Seiko claim that it will only need servicing after 50 years. Fantastic technology but many prefer a traditional mechanical movement as being `purer'. My other Seiko is a ltd edition Astron Solar GPS which is another great piece of technology as it will reset to local time in any of 39 time zones around the world and corrects itself via satellite signals every day (if required). Are either of these really worth 10 kinetic divers? As items to tell the time then no but each has its own special `something' that makes wearing them such a pleasure.

I would certainly rate some of the Seikos alongside some Tags and Omegas. Rolex is another matter as very few watches have that recognition factor - It is probably the best known brand in the world.

Why collect Seiko watches? Even the lower price range models will give you years of good service . You could buy one or two new ones for the cost of a service for something like an Omega or Rolex so you could own several watches rather than stick with one or two.


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## Big Bad Boris (Dec 3, 2010)

in 3 words............ Bang for Buck


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## Jeremy Fisher (Jan 28, 2012)

Tag Heuer bought the rights to manufacture a Seiko movement for their Carerra 1887 watch. Nuff said.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I remember my merchant sailor uncle giving me a Seiko 6139 chronograph which he had bought in Japan ... I was 15 and thought the watch looked like it was from another planet or future time!

They made and continue to make an astonishing array of watches to suit every taste and budget, they have been innovative ... here are some of the first's from Seiko - quartz watch, titanium cased diver's watch, analogue quartz chronograph, multi-function digital watch, kinetic, spring-drive, ultrasonic micro motor perpetual calendar, E-Ink, GPS Solar etc etc

And they made the orange Monster just to wind Mac up


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

JoT said:


> And they made the orange Monster just to wind Mac up


I knew it, the fiendish buggers!! :disgust:


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## Mutley (Apr 17, 2007)

No hype - just an excellent range of watches

(including the Orange Monster :yes: )


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## RTM Boy (Jun 1, 2011)

Hello Jon and welcome.

Collecting anything is to some extent always a matter of personal taste. William Morris famously said "Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful or believe to be beautiful" and because of its enormous range most people will find a Seiko that does both. You know what you're getting with a Seiko. The same cannot always be said of some high end makers. Also, Seikos don't have the brand 'baggage' you can get with TAGs, Omegas and Rolexes - no-one is going to judge you for wearing one, other than for recognising good quality.

Personally, having had to slim down my collection I have just one Seiko left, but if funds allowed I would not hesitate in adding more Seikos.


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## apm101 (Jun 4, 2011)

What they said. Great watches, excellent value at all price points.

ESPECIALLY the Orange Monster.  :tongue2:  :tongue2:


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## Mutley (Apr 17, 2007)

apm101 said:


> ESPECIALLY the Orange Monster.  :tongue2:  :tongue2:


Careful, you don't want to incur the wraith of Wee Jimmy Krankie









BTW Gratuitous monster pic


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## trackrat (Jan 23, 2012)

And if you cannot afford an Orange Monster, how about a Mini Monster.


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

Wow, great responses! I tried a kinetic diver on earlier and I have to admit it has a quality robust feel about it, it also looks great. I have decided on buying it tomorrow to give my tag a rest as an everyday watch. I hate scratching the strap.

I like the idea of not having to pay the tag service fee so regularly every 4 years at a guess, mine is at 3 and a half and still going.

20 year effective time before battery replacement. The diver does look bomb proof! So after that it's a stainless baby tuna with red accents and a blue baby with rubber strap follow that with a sports5 diver then a 007 and I will have a rest.

Think I have answered my own question. All of the positive feedback has confirmed what I suspected so thanks guys.


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## Foxdog (Apr 13, 2011)

I only have one Seiko its a Sea Urchin, get one if you can - fantastic watch for the money, here's mine










:fox:


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

And did I say they can take years of abuse?


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## Faze (Mar 1, 2013)

I seem to have a draw full of the pesky blighters :thumbup:


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

Faze said:


> I seem to have a draw full of the pesky blighters :thumbup:


Wow that's a collection to be proud of. I will get there one day but at the moment will look forward to buying my first.


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## cactus (Feb 10, 2011)

jnt1983 said:


> Faze said:
> 
> 
> > I seem to have a draw full of the pesky blighters :thumbup:
> ...


Yeah I agree, great collection. I haven't got a Seiko diver myself but really should and have it modded. :thumbup:


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## gregory (Feb 13, 2009)

I've just snared this on the bay....



















'Nuff said. :yes:


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## Timez Own (Oct 19, 2013)

jnt1983 said:


> Faze said:
> 
> 
> > I seem to have a draw full of the pesky blighters :thumbup:
> ...


Just be careful if you buy more than one to keep them away from each other you could have a problem on your hands until mixi catches up with the offspring


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## Beeks (Sep 28, 2013)

I too don't understand the fascination with Seiko, the lower end Seikos are nice enough..I owned one of those baby monsters, the white version for a little while but it lost quite a lot of time over a day, as for the higher end..you can get much nicer watches for the price of a tuna..personally I would be very uncomfortable spending big money on one


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## ong (Jul 31, 2008)

Tend to agree with Beeks. I've had a few Seiko 5's and they varied from the ultra reliable to the never to be relied on. I missed a uni exam because of one, but have fond memories of another over 15 years of no maintenance use. Currently the dog is in retirement after tlc from Roy and I now have a new Seiko 5 with the 'C' movement. Nice watch but personally can't get used to:

Crown at '4' ( why did Seiko change this )

Non hacking movement ( although you can bump the second hand back a bit as needed)

Non solid bracelet links ( again why when quality bracelets are readily available).

Time keeping - 20 secs a day means regular resetting over a week.

Only my opinion and admittedly biased as I've never owned one of the ' higher end' Seiko's.

Seasons greetings from rainy windy Essex.


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## K300 (Apr 2, 2010)

> in 3 words............ Bang for Buck


this is the shortest explanation that sums it up.

The quality and robustness of some Seikos puts higher priced brands to shame.

Looking at the Monsters(I have a Black and an Orange), the bezel is higher than the crystal so protects it, the bezel is protected by parts of the case, it has larger than normal spring bars, the links are very well engineered and the clasp has a divers extension, the crown is at 4 O'clock, lume is excellent and is comparable with anything else on the market(as on most Seikos) and the hands are very legible.

You can get a very good one for Â£100. It's a very good value for money divers watch.


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Mutley said:


> apm101 said:
> 
> 
> > ESPECIALLY the Orange Monster.  :tongue2:  :tongue2:
> ...


It`s the season to spread peace & understanding to all even those poor deluded individuals who like Zooms


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

I have to say besides the kinetic diver I just bought and my tag aquaracer 500m pro that all of my watches have the crown at 4. I am a diver and find this necessary in order to avoid crown burn on the back of my hand. I wear my watches quite low and nothing worse than a day where the crown has been stuck in the back of your hand!

My apeks 1000m has a seiko movement so I set it exactly with an online clock 3 days ago and upto now it is still bang on perfect! This is great as it's not an expensive watch!

In fact the accuracy of this is what has swayed me towards seiko as a brand!


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## Mutley (Apr 17, 2007)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Mutley said:
> 
> 
> > apm101 said:
> ...


 :taz: Bugger, I thought I'd got away with that one :lol:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

jnt1983 said:


> I have to say besides the kinetic diver I just bought and my tag aquaracer 500m pro that all of my watches have the crown at 4. I am a diver and find this necessary in order to avoid crown burn on the back of my hand. I wear my watches quite low and nothing worse than a day where the crown has been stuck in the back of your hand


Don't Seiko do any with the crown on the left ??

Unfortunately my view on Seiko was probably sullied by a Monster which I bought off the back of the hype of the day, imho it was rubbish, amongst other issues, poor finish and poor timekeeping, the bracelet just felt cheap ect. At that end of their range loads of other better watches available.

To be fair though I still see the occasional one that I like the look of so maybe one day I'll give them another try.


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## Trigger (Sep 16, 2011)

I think Seiko is a name that perhaps doesn't enthuse people enough to fully appreciate what they make. I always used to pine about getting a Tuna but later went off the idea when I went off in other directions. I didn't really see what the fuss was with the thing that lots of people were calling a 'Spork'. It was a Tuna or else. I had already had an orange Monster and had loved it's heft and quality.

Latterly, I bought a quartz Tuna and quickly bought a Spork. I soon realised I didn't want both in the collection... so the Tuna went. Nuff said about the impression made by the Spork. Although with it being an auto it wasn't an even fight.

You just have to try watches of all heritages and reputations and you'll soon realise what you like.


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

Although I really like them, I can't say I would be prepared to spend thousands on a grand seiko diver! When for the money I could get a Cartier or Rolex or some other brand that brings with it the status Symbol even a submarine or another tag.

Could I justify spending anymore than a couple of hundred Â£s on a seiko? NO.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2013)

A thought many have but I am sure you are aware Tags "In house movement" is actually purchased from Seiko. Not sure how impressive that would be walking around with a several grand Tag with a Seiko movement ticking away inside it.

A big reason people like Seiko is the huge variety in design, price and make (high end up to Credor costing many thousands or a 50 quid Seiko 5) Digital, quartz, automatic....... They also actually bother to do something different like the spring drive.


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

I am aware tag bought the patent on a movement. However which tags it's actually in I don't know.! A tag being Swiss made albeit from parts from all over the world I am sure they have put their thoughts into it. Wasn't it a auto movement from seiko? I have a quartz tag!


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2013)

Is it not the 1887 chronograph. I am not aware of Tag buying parts from all over the world but I am interested to know why you would consider them a status symbol.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

robert75 said:


> A thought many have but I am sure you are aware Tags "In house movement" is actually purchased from Seiko.


Much as Seiko owners like the story that their Â£50 watch is just the same as a Tag its not really how it is.

http://www.calibre11.com/calibre-1887-update/


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2014)

BondandBigM said:


> robert75 said:
> 
> 
> > A thought many have but I am sure you are aware Tags "In house movement" is actually purchased from Seiko.
> ...


What Seiko owners consider their Â£50 watch the same as a Tag? I am curious.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

robert75 said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> > robert75 said:
> ...


I'm not to good at getting the search to work but here's one

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=17178&hl=%2Bseiko+%2Btagheuer+%2Bwatches&fromsearch=1

:lol: :lol:


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2014)

BondandBigM said:


> robert75 said:
> 
> 
> > BondandBigM said:
> ...


He broke his Tag watch strap, bought a Seiko 5 while waiting for the insurance to come in and now likes his Seiko so much he wont bother replacing the Tag and just keep the money. Aside from taking the thread completely off topic I am struggling to see the point here?


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2014)

What I do agree with however is your comment about accuracy. I read with interest comment from owners of Seikos who talk of them having "Out the box" Accuracy of +5 seconds a day or even less! I almost thought I was just some poor unfortunate soul who had a Seiko running at +15 to 20 seconds a day (Within the spec of the watch) It was only when I asked about this a few people pointed out they regulated the watch as soon as they got it which to me seemed a bit like cheating. I wouldn't say such and such brand of trousers are a perfect fit after I had took them to a tailors and got them adjusted to a better fit it just makes no sense.

I have personally found an ETA or Sellita running more accurate than a SARB 6R15 movement.

Lesson learned, take forum watch accuracy with a large pinch of salt.


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

I am not saying tag is a status symbol as such! Only that it gets certain recognition of being a quality bit of kit. After seeing the accuracy of my apeks with seiko movement albeit quartz, it has not lost or gained a second in 5 days.

My tag does not use a seiko movement however this is also quartz.

I am not a great fan of autos however I do appreciate the engineering and ingenuity that is automatic watches.

For me accuracy and not having to constantly adjust is more important than anything.

I doubt I could ever look at a seiko and think now that's a watch I have to own, it just doesn't spark my interest like my tag or other such Swiss brands do.

Seikos are a good watch but a great watch? I don't know.


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

As far as tags parts from all over. They have sourced a movement from seiko, which watches its in I don't know but there's a start! Switzerland being the ultra green low carbon garden of Eden that it is must have to source internationaly.

Despite the 1 movement, to say that a seiko is as good as a tag is in my opinion not true.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

They didn't source the movement from Seiko they acquired some intellectual property rights


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

My appologies. My attempt at brief response. I am aware they bought the rights and then redeveloped entirely at home in Switzerland.


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## Sir Alan (Sep 10, 2010)

I like Seikos, and in particular those from the 80's and 90's because watches in various states of (dis)repair are readily available to be either restored to full operation or used as donor watches.

I've had some real fun and success taking dozens of Seiko watches apart, cleaning, replacing broken parts and putting them back together.

I would never have attempted this with an expensive brand.

Thank you Seiko. :thumbup:


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

Sir Alan said:


> I would never have attempted this with an expensive brand.


Some Seikos are seriously expensive, so I presume you only tried it with their less expensive offerings.


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## Sir Alan (Sep 10, 2010)

artistmike said:


> Sir Alan said:
> 
> 
> > I would never have attempted this with an expensive brand.
> ...


 Yep - I think I'll hold off the Grand Seiko and Spring Drive strip downs for now. :shocking:


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

Sir Alan said:


> Yep - I think I'll hold off the Grand Seiko and Spring Drive strip downs for now. :shocking:


 :lol: :lol:


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

jnt1983 said:


> As far as tags parts from all over. They have sourced a movement from seiko, which watches its in I don't know but there's a start! Switzerland being the ultra green low carbon garden of Eden that it is must have to source internationaly.
> 
> Despite the 1 movement, to say that a seiko is as good as a tag is in my opinion not true.


It is very difficult to compare the Tag and Seiko brands.as they both cover quite a wide price range. Certainly I would agree that the Seiko watches (under Â£300) sold in H Samuel are not as good as any Tag I have seen or owned. Having said that, the cheapest Tags in our local outlet centre start at around Â£800 - Â£900 and so you would expect a better quality product.

As you move up to the Antana, Astron or GS models in the Seiko range then you get equal or better watches than some Tags but perhaps not as good as some of the higher priced Tags. Overall, the TAG brand probably has more Kudos simply because they do not make watches in the lower price bands.


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

I totally agree. I jhave a Â£800 aquaracer and a Â£1500 aquaracer both quartz and the more expensive 500m pro is my favourite watch. Even more than my Cartier tank francais which is purely a dress watch.


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Your comparing brands not watches, and the more you pay for a watch does not necessarily mean your getting a better watch , there comes a point where the quality of build and components does not get better with price and you are indeed paying for the brand over the watch, nothing wrong with that though..... A Â£1000 Seiko will be just as good as any Swiss competitor in its sector in my opinion.

The ETA quartz movement in your Tag will be shared by many much less expensive watches, I once replaced a damaged quartz chronograph movement in a 2k Breitling Colt with the identical ETA movement that cost Â£50..... Doesnt make it any less of a watch, they are very good watches indeed...


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

I see what you mean and I am probably not explaining myself properly. Ok so, yes there is the brand comparison. I could spend 2k on a Rolex or omega, but I would not on a seiko. I am not saying it is any less of a watch! I am merely saying you get that exclusivity with a premium brand. Take Aston Martin for instance, they have catered to the wealthy for years, they are bought for reason in part that they are a status symbol. They then release that smart car looking thing with an Aston Martin badge, all of a sudden anyone can own an Aston Martin for 20 grand. There usual customers feel that the status symbol is lost and move to rolls Royce. Now astons have always had engines designed by the likes of ford etc etc. That didn't seem to bother the older type of customer who bought it as a symbol.

Much the same thing with watches. You buy a tag which is by no means compatible as a status symbol with the likes of breitling, however it has developed with seiko patents depending on model. (The engine) seikos maybe very good indeed but I would not recognise any seiko as a premium watch like I would with Rolex. Hence the reason there are so many fake Rolex, tag, omega etc out there.

Now Rolex don't make an affordable watch however I fear if they did the "status" people would stop buying them. This does not make it right, only a sad shadow of what we have become.

I would love a grand seiko however if I had the cash it would go on a Swiss brand. Because the Swiss are known as making fine quality watches.

I dare say the decent japanese are just as good and I don't wish to put any brand down at all! I think seiko are great.

I hope this has not confused things even more. I merely wanted to discover what seems to be an absolute fascination with seiko, citizen etc that escapes me and SOME others I have spoken 2.

Let me reiterate I am not a hater.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

:lol: :lol:


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

I forgot to add. I am not the sort to buy something for recognition purposes only for the appreciation of what I have personally been conditioned to recognise as a great quality product. From what I have always understood is that Swiss is the epitome of accuracy, quality and style. By no means value for money. But then owning an expensive watch is not on my list of priorities!


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

jnt1983 said:


> I forgot to add. *I am not the sort to buy something for recognition purposes* only for the appreciation of what I have personally been conditioned to recognise as a great quality product. From what I have always understood is that Swiss is the epitome of accuracy, quality and style. By no means value for money. But then owning an expensive watch is not on my list of priorities!


That contradicts what you said earlier in the thread



jnt1983 said:


> Although I really like them, I can't say I would be prepared to spend thousands on a grand seiko diver! When for the money *I could get a Cartier or Rolex or some other brand that brings with it the status Symbol* even a submarine or another tag.
> 
> Could I justify spending anymore than a couple of hundred Â£s on a seiko? NO.


 :astro:

When are going to see your watches?


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2014)

Where did you find a new Rolex for 2k?


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

Like I said I am not explaining well, I would not buy a watch for the symbol. I would by it because it's quality! If it is such as a Rolex or whatever that has a reputation as a symbol that does not mean that is the reason I would by it. It's merely a benefit of buying one of these watches. If I had the money which I don't it would go on a car or a holiday. I have 2 expensive watches and these were both gifts. I would only buy 1 if I had money to spare which is not the same as having money. I fear I have complicated things.


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

robert75 said:


> Where did you find a new Rolex for 2k?


I did not find 1 for 2 grand I was merely plucking a figure out of the air to get my point across which clearly I have failed at


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

jnt1983 said:


> Now Rolex don't make an affordable watch however I fear if they did the "status" people would stop buying them.


You do realise that Rolex are only one of the mid range mass manufactured watches, like Omega, and produce about 800,000 units a year ? What kind of status or exclusivity do you think that gives anyone buying one?


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

jnt1983 said:


> Like I said I am not explaining well, I would not buy a watch for the symbol. I would by it because it's quality! If it is such as a Rolex or whatever that has a reputation as a symbol that does not mean that is the reason I would by it. It's merely a benefit of buying one of these watches. If I had the money which I don't it would go on a car or a holiday. I have 2 expensive watches and these were both gifts. I would only buy 1 if I had money to spare which is not the same as having money. I fear I have complicated things.


So when are you going to show us your two expensive watches?


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

How do I put a photo on I am on an iphone? Will try copy and paste


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

Copy and paste doesn't work. When I press in the box where you type the paste bubble doesn't come up


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Try this: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13637


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

JoT said:


> jnt1983 said:
> 
> 
> > Like I said I am not explaining well, I would not buy a watch for the symbol. I would by it because it's quality! If it is such as a Rolex or whatever that has a reputation as a symbol that does not mean that is the reason I would by it. It's merely a benefit of buying one of these watches. If I had the money which I don't it would go on a car or a holiday. I have 2 expensive watches and these were both gifts. I would only buy 1 if I had money to spare which is not the same as having money. I fear I have complicated things.
> ...


When I figure out how to get a photo on I will do. I don't have a computer only use my phone. By expensive I mean anything I can't justify buying which would be anything over the 800 mark I was given both by my dad 1 when I left the army and 1 for my 27th. I did continue to make the point if I had the money, so unless I win the lottery I would not buy a watch over a couple of hundred. I can't work so only receive a war pension. Only trying to understand. I personally see brands I have mentioned as a status symbol. I am not saying others do


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

As I said previously, what sort of status does a common mid-range watch like a Rolex confer on anyone? Making 800,000 a year does not confer exclusivity or status at all. only a top range watch would do that....


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

artistmike said:


> As I said previously, what sort of status does a common mid-range watch like a Rolex confer on anyone? Making 800,000 a year does not confer exclusivity or status at all. only a top range watch would do that....


I would consider Rolex to be a top range watch not mid range. It's all well and good saying its a mid range and made in volume but compare it to how many watches seiko or casio make a year. A lot more people can afford a seiko over a Rolex. If it's not a status symbol why are there so many fakes! Fakes are produced for people who can't afford or can't justify spending the money on the real thing!

Not that I agree with fakes! I can't afford a Rolex therefore to me it's a luxury but I would not buy a fake because it devalues the brand!


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

jnt1983 said:


> I would consider Rolex to be a top range watch not mid range. It's all well and good saying its a mid range and made in volume but compare it to how many watches seiko or casio make a year. A lot more people can afford a seiko over a Rolex. If it's not a status symbol why are there so many fakes! Fakes are produced for people who can't afford or can't justify spending the money on the real thing!
> 
> Not that I agree with fakes! I can't afford a Rolex therefore to me it's a luxury but I would not buy a fake because it devalues the brand!


Rolex really isn't a top range watch. You have to get away from mass produced watches to hand made ones to start justifying that sort of title.... The cost of a top range Seiko is much the same as a Rolex and believe me, there's hardly a watch that isn't faked, ... even the cheapest Seikos and Casios are faked so that is no measure of worth at all....

I'm afraid that because you can't afford a Rolex, doesn't make it a luxury, as with an output of nearly a million a year, there's obviously a huge number of people who can....


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2014)

I know you keep saying it's your view of what's exclusive or a status symbol however you are missing an important point, this is a watch forum.

People here care about watches and spend a great deal of time researching the subject and from a personal point of view I just don't see a quartz Tag I can pick up in any high street or even at a massive discount at an outlet store as anything exclusive or a status symbol. That's in no way to detract from any personal value any watch may have some of my cheapest watches have more personal value than any of my more expensive ones.

If you want to know what people see in Seiko it's the fact you can get anything from Â£50 to Â£40,000 (credor) Should you wish. It's because for the very reasons you give for not understand the attraction of Seiko. It's because the owner can really have something that's "exclusive" and not a 2K high street nice and shiny quartz that someone has been duped into buying by the nice chap in the shop wearing the high end Rolex he is only allowed to wear for a day by the shop owner.

Something exclusive is completely subjective. To some it would be anything over a grand to others more. There is nothing remarkable about the price of a Rolex they stand along side a ton of others in the same price bracket. You need a nice Patek or Lange. Tried one on last week it was only Â£38,000


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## PhilM (Nov 5, 2004)

If you want you can email me your photos, and I will post them for you?

As for Seiko watches, something for everyone, covering all budgets, and offering outstanding quality and high attention to detail - especially with the GS range


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

I see exactly where you are coming from. And yes to me a luxury is anything I can't afford its opinion only. I am aware there are many other brands of more luxury. My mum has a Cartier with a large diamond above the watch face you need a microscope to see the time on it. I merely used Rolex as an example. An example of what I consider to be premium


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2014)

jnt1983 said:


> artistmike said:
> 
> 
> > As I said previously, what sort of status does a common mid-range watch like a Rolex confer on anyone? Making 800,000 a year does not confer exclusivity or status at all. only a top range watch would do that....
> ...


Pretty much every name out there has it's fakes including Seiko. People fake what they think they can sell. Â£50-60 will get you a Fred Perry polo but people still make fakes. A Â£50 polo is hardly out of the reach of the average man.

A Rolex is a luxury to you because you say you can't afford one. You keep saying people can afford a Seiko wrong, people can afford the watches Seiko chooses to make cheaper such as in Malaysia. Grand Seikos are roughly Rolex prices so those who can afford one can afford the other.

By the way, I did mention Credor watches who are also made by Seiko. Their watches cost several thousand pounds more than your average Rolex so based on your world view does that now make Seiko superior to Rolex?


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

robert75 said:


> jnt1983 said:
> 
> 
> > artistmike said:
> ...


I just checked out credor. Very nice. No in my opinion it does not made seiko more superior. I never said Rolex was superior just that it's recognised as an expensive brand is what I meant. I don't want to get into arguments on opinions! Rolex have also made some very very expensive watches. Hundreds of thousands. Seiko may be as good or better but generally are they known to be?


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

I am wearing a great watch right now it cost Â£90 an apeks 1000m helium safe dive watch it keeps excellent time with a seiko movement I believe. That's real value a cheap watch that keeps great time and it feels nuclear Armageddon proof! So I have answered my own question.


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

I am wearing a great watch right now it cost Â£90 an apeks 1000m helium safe dive watch it keeps excellent time with a seiko movement I believe. That's real value a cheap watch that keeps great time and it feels nuclear Armageddon proof! So I have answered my own question.


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

jnt1983 said:


> Seiko may be as good or better but generally are they known to be?


As Robert says, we all here care about watches, at all price levels too, it's just that we aren't perhaps so seduced by the marketing hype, for which Rolex are well known.. They make terrific mid-range watches, I love my 5513 Sub but I don't pretend it's anything other than just that, a well made mid range watch, like many others and certainly Seiko make watches easily in the same ball-park. ... Stick around and I expect your view will change slowly on what makes a top of the range watch....


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## jnt1983 (Dec 28, 2013)

I am starting to see this. Until earlier I was unaware of the level seiko went up to. Hence the reason I started the thread. Trying to find out what attracted people to them and now I am getting the idea.

Must get some sleep.

Happy new year all


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

Happy New Year ...'And to all, a good night' ...


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## BASHER (Jun 26, 2011)

Given the budget I would prefer to own a Seiko Ananta or Grand Seiko than a Tag.

With the Seiko comes a little exclusivity, and assurance that you're unlikely to meet or see many other people wearing one.

A watch that looks what it is, a quality watch that doesn't scream "look at me".

Just my opinion...

Paul.


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## Jeremy Fisher (Jan 28, 2012)

For the last few decades, Seiko hasn't really targeted the high end of the western watch market. Therefore, they are generally seen by non watch geeks as cheap/cheaper watches.

If however you go to Japan, Korea, Singapore etc, the brand is well established for its luxury watches and carry similar "snob value" to Rolex or Tag.


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## Rotundus (May 7, 2012)

my only worry with the higher end seikos would be long term service and repair.

i seem to remember hearing rumblings that they dont keep parts in stock for much more than ten years.


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

According to Seiko, my Grand Seiko quartz will only need a service after 50 years so if you don't mind waiting a while I will let you know if this is true :lol: :lol: :lol:

It will need batteries before the service but that does not expose the movement to air/dust.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

richy176 said:


> According to Seiko, my Grand Seiko quartz will only need a service after 50 years so if you don't mind waiting a while I will let you know if this is true :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> It will need batteries before the service but that does not expose the movement to air/dust.


Impressive! It is unlikely I will find out though unless I make it past the Queen's telegram!


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## RTM Boy (Jun 1, 2011)

Seiko is such as accessible quality brand - you can pick up a bedside clock for Â£10 or splash out on a Grand Seiko GMT for Â£5k. Despite the hugh price-point range it works for them... Perhaps Seiko epitomises the difference between price and VFM.


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## dapper (Jun 18, 2004)

Â£250,000..........


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## Time Bomb (Dec 28, 2013)

dapper said:


> Â£250,000..........


May have to save a few pay packets for that


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

JoT said:


> richy176 said:
> 
> 
> > According to Seiko, my Grand Seiko quartz will only need a service after 50 years so if you don't mind waiting a while I will let you know if this is true :lol: :lol: :lol:
> ...


Got an even bigger problem with my Astron as Seiko claim an accuracy of 1 second per 100.000 years - looking forward to telegrams from many generations of the Royal Family whilst I test out that claim.


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## Will Fly (Apr 10, 2012)

I'm not a huge fan of quartz watches, or watches with batteries, or Japanese watches. However, I liked the idea of a wristwatch powered by solar energy and recently bought myself a new Seiko Solar for just over Â£100. It keeps great time - I check it once a month for accuracy and reset to the atomic clock - no more than a second's difference - and the dial is very clear and easy to read. It has a comfortable canvas strap and a day and date function - black dial, lumed hands and a sporty/military look to it.

A watch to wear every day and not worry about. I'm very pleased with it.


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