# Question On Regulating A Seiko 5



## Guest (Jul 14, 2010)

OK, so, inspired by so AlexC1981's pics of his gorgeous Seiko 5, I bought an identical model from an ebay seller in Singapore.










I knew that I was taking a bit of a gamble, but the seller has piles of positive feedback, and so I was encouraged. Anyway, the watch arrived this morning, and cosmetically at least it seems to be in perfect unused condition. 

As for time-keeping though...

I gave it a few shakes to get it started, then set the time and date, then carried on swinging it to wind the auto mechanism. Thing is, after only about ten minutes I noticed that it had gained approximately three seconds! 

Anyway, I know that when watches need winding they can sometimes run fast, so rather than jump to conclusions, I am going to keep swinging it back and forth to wind it for a while before checking the accuracy again.

Now, I can see an adjustment point through the back of the case, but how much scope for regulation do they actually provide on these watches? If it's still running fast after I've properly wound it up, is it worth me opening the back and trying to alter that regulator? Also, I'm not entirely sure how it turns, ...will I need a special tool other than a jeweller's screwdriver? (I have a case back opener btw, so that's no problem - I'm just unsure about how to adjust the regulator)

Thanks in advance for any help/advice!


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2010)

Yup. It's gaining about 5 seconds every 10 mins (about 6 minutes a day).

I expect that this is beyond the amount by which it can be sped up or slowed down simply by adjusting the regulator ...but I don't know that for sure, so any expert comment here will be most welcome.


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## wookie (Apr 27, 2009)

Hi,

3 seconds in 10 minutes would add up to about 7 minutes out in 24 hours, this is far beyond regulation, I suspect the balance spring is touching itself or has snagged up. sometimes letting it wind right down and then giving it a gentle tap side on with the palm of your hand can sort it. it may also be out of beat which would require a timing machine. If you have a loupe I would check the spring first.

good luck

wookie

oops you posted while I was writing, 5 seconds fast per 10 minutes is a bit worse but it still may be fixable if it's a snag up.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2010)

wookie said:


> Hi,
> 
> 3 seconds in 10 minutes would add up to about 7 minutes out in 24 hours, this is far beyond regulation, I suspect the balance spring is touching itself or has snagged up. sometimes letting it wind right down and then giving it a gentle tap side on with the palm of your hand can sort it. it may also be out of beat which would require a timing machine. If you have a loupe I would check the spring first.
> 
> ...


Thanks dude. I don't have a loupe (I'm a bit "out the loupe", ha!) but I've paid careful attention to what you said, and just now I unscrewed the back and put the regulator right back as slow as it will go to see if I can even improve things a bit.

If it's still running fast in a few minutes, I'll leave it to run down then try that gentle tap method. Cheers! :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2010)

OK, so I adjusted it, then left it 2 seconds slower than my waveceptor, with a view to seeing how long it would take to "catch up".

Ten mins later, it's nearly four seconds behind. ...So now it's running slow! 

I don't dispute what you said at the adjuster not normally giving such scope for regulation, but my model seems to have a rather serious amount of adjustment to play with! 

(maybe that's a symptom of a fault though ...really don't know)


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## wookie (Apr 27, 2009)

Hi

well good luck fella, I've had plenty like that in the past, just one of the hazards with auto collecting. from what I've read the 7xxx series are very prone to snagging especialy when they have been through the postal system.

shame you can't rent timing machines or even club together and get one for forum members to use, that's very wishful thinking though.

wookie


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## wookie (Apr 27, 2009)

Om_nom_nom_Watches! said:


> OK, so I adjusted it, then left it 2 seconds slower than my waveceptor, with a view to seeing how long it would take to "catch up".
> 
> Ten mins later, it's nearly four seconds behind. ...So now it's running slow!
> 
> ...


that sounds like beat error to me, have you tried it in different postions to see if the amount it's out changes I think it's called positional variance


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2010)

wookie said:


> positional variance


Just adjusted the regulator another couple of times. Now going to leave the watch in the same position for ten minutes and note the gain/loss, then I'll try it in a different position and do the same test.

Again, thanks for your input!


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2010)

OK, well, as far as I can ascertain, the watch runs fast when I shake it to wind it, and, if I turn back the regulator to compensate for this, it runs slow when it's not moving.

Going to keep testing to be sure though.

How accurate should this sort of movement be? ...I had guessed that it would keep to within +/- 3 seconds per day, or thereabouts. Is that normally a realistic target?


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## wookie (Apr 27, 2009)

Hi

I think somewhere between -15 and +20 is fine per 24 hours, if you can get it somewhere close to those numbers in the five or six positions you should be good to go.

wookie


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## clockworks (Apr 11, 2010)

The 7sx6 movements are rated at -25/+35 seconds per day, according to the tech PDF. +/- 3 secs is better than chronometer spec. You'll have to pay a lot more to be guaranteed this kind of performance from a mechanical watch.

As wookie said, the balance spring on these movements is prone to hooking up around the regulator assembly, but I'd expect it to gain 30 minutes plus a day. I've seen 2 with this kind of problem.

A lot of watches can only be adjusted by a couple of minutes a day, but the Seikos that I've worked on have a lot more range. Having said that, the pointer on the regulator should be somewhere close to the centre of the +/- scale. If it isn't, either it needs a service, or it's out of beat. It's easy to change the beat on these movements, but very difficult to get it right without the right equipment, or a very good ear/eye.

While you've got the back off, it might be worth checking that the watch is fully wound. You can wind it manually by turning the screw that holds the click (ratchet) wheel to the spring barrel. IIRC, it takes 8 turns to fully wind. Give it 4 turns, and see what happens.

If the watch is NOS, it may settle down, or it may need a service.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2010)

Thanks.

Well, right now I have one strange watch: I leave it motionless for ten minutes and it loses a second. ...Then I shake it to wind it for three minutes and it gains that second back. :lookaround:

I suppose if If I'm active for just the right amount of time each day then it will keep perfect time. :man_in_love:


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2010)

(The above post was a reply to wookie ...hadn't seen your post clockworks at the time I clicked the button ...just to say an extra thanks for that additional info! )


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## minkle (Mar 17, 2008)

I think you have messed about with it too quickly, you should have left it to see if it settled down.

How was the packaging? A knock in transit could have damaged it.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2010)

minkle said:


> I think you have messed about with it too quickly, you should have left it to see if it settled down.
> 
> How was the packaging? A knock in transit could have damaged it.


All I've done is adjust the regulator though. It was in the dead centre when I first got the watch, so it's going to be perfectly easy for me to put it back as it was when it arrived.

As for the knock in transit theory, I don't dispute that you may be right there, although I don't think I could really make that sort of damage better or worse by adjusting the regulator as I've done. The packaging was very minimal, and so yes it might have been taken too many Gs in transit.

Basically, if I put the regulator near the middle, the watch will run quite accurately when still, and very fast indeed when moved about. Go figure... :dontgetit:


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2010)

Other questions:

What is the power reserve in a fully wound movement of this kind?

Is it normal for Seiko 5 watches to run even a little faster while being wound/swung as compared to being left motionless?

Do new Seiko 5 watches tend often to need a sort of "bedding in" period, or is this exceptional?


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## Openended (Nov 4, 2009)

Hi,

I'm not an expert on problem finding on autos, but I had a Seiko 5 which did exactly the same thing (sped up when being moved, and didn't speed up so much when static). That sounds like something more unusual, rather than the constant +x seconds per day when it just needs regulating. I took it to get it de-magnatised and it didn't do anything. I think there's something properly wrong with it. I returned mine.

Sorry, hope you get it sorted and can enjoy it.

Regards,

Openended.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2010)

Right now it's on a compromise setting so that it's too fast on the move and a bit too slow at rest.

I'll see how I go with that, and just keep checking it against the waveceptor to get a feel for how accurate it is day-to-day.

I bought it mainly because I like the look of it (or at least I will when the strap arrives, lol), so I can tolerate it being fairly inaccurate, but not wildly inaccurate.

I suppose I could always put in a request for a Seiko 5 movement in the wanted section and see what comes up...


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2010)

OK, so...

Left motionless, the watch loses 50 seconds in 12 hours. When picked up and swung quite forcefully, it gains six seconds in one minute of swinging.

My hope is that once the strap arrives and I start wearing it, I'll naturally keep it around some kind of accurate state by not staying still all day, but not being too energetic either. 

If anyone on this forum wants to give me a quote for putting a new (or nicely working used) movement in it, I'll be happy to receive a PM! 

Cheers!


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## clockworks (Apr 11, 2010)

I wonder if you are shaking/swinging it too violently? When I need to wind a Seiko, I hold it dial up, and swirl it like a brandy glass, keeping the watch in a single plane. Swirl it just fast and hard enough so that you can hear the rotor swinging.


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

Om_nom_nom_Watches! said:


> I suppose I could always put in a request for a Seiko 5 movement in the wanted section and see what comes up...





Om_nom_nom_Watches! said:


> If anyone on this forum wants to give me a quote for putting a new (or nicely working used) movement in it, I'll be happy to receive a PM!


I suspect a more cost effective solution would be to send it to Roy (or Steve at Rytetime) to get it sorted, rather than trying to source & fit a replacement movement.


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## ketiljo (Apr 22, 2009)

Shaking the watch like this _will_ affect the amplitude of the balance, making it go faster. When you wear it normally, it won't be affected. So you should wear the watch normally when you do the timing. Probably nothing wrong with it. Check the timing every 24 hour, and be happy if it's within +/-30s or so.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies.

Might end up getting in touch with Roy.

Even being worn on the wrist during a gentle 15 minute stroll to a local restaurant yesterday it gained about ten seconds, so unfortunately the issue is not simply me shaking it too violently or anything like that.

Still, it looks so nice, I might just keep it for dressy occasions and carry my Waveceptor in my pocket to know the time. ardon:


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## Walnuts (Apr 20, 2010)

wookie said:


> Hi
> 
> well good luck fella, I've had plenty like that in the past, just one of the hazards with auto collecting. from what I've read the 7xxx series are very prone to snagging especialy when they have been through the postal system.
> 
> ...


if you have an iphone, there's err.. an app for that


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## wookie (Apr 27, 2009)

Walnuts said:


> wookie said:
> 
> 
> > Hi
> ...


yeh I know, shame it's as crap as all the rest of the app's. why the developer would think a rubbish phone mic is good enough for the job is beyond me. Oh well at least it works well as a phone......... :lol:


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