# Helicopters



## ericp (Feb 23, 2003)

Flying in a small helicopter (an R22 for example) just does not feel as safe as flying in a small aircraft.

I am acutely aware of how fragile the helicopter, and its associated systems are.

The legal requirements for overhauls and examinations are much more frequent, and stringent on rotary winged aircraft than fixed wing..This is because the helicopter is so much more complex as a piece of machinery.

I am sure I am much more likely to have an accident riding my Harley than flying a heli, however thats not how it feels.....

The Black Hawk helicopter as used the U.S. military is a different kettle of fish. It is very well built and designed to have massive "survivability" in the event of a "heavy arrival" During testing of the Black Hawk one crashed very heavily...Engineers replaced the rotor blades and they flew it away.....

Alas Black Hawks Helis are not available at my local flying club, and I am not sure if the U.S Marines would welcome me into their ranks, I don't even know if they do pink D.P.M flying suits ?

Eric.


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

Doubt it.

If I won the lottery though....

and money did talk....

After the watch buying spree, an Apache helicopter would be on my list. How I got in it - i would have to think about. From what i've seen though, they are awsome. Missiles they carry go 2000mph allegedly.


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Is the high incidence of accidents due to mechanical fault or human error?

Or do I just think the accident rate is high because a relatively high proportion of the occupants is well known?


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## ericp (Feb 23, 2003)

I believe in many cases pilot error is the root cause.

When I was training I watched a couple of CAA safety videos.

Some of the film was actual video footage of fatal accidents. One of which was a very nasty helicopter crash filmed from the ground by the pilots wife...

The conclusion of one of the films was quite scary.....

Private pilots in light aircraft show off and take risks...Many accidents involving private pilots happen near or in sight of friends / relatives.

Not nice...

Eric


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## Softiesteve (Feb 23, 2003)

hello,

Is it a factor that helicopters are asked to do more hazardous things like search and rescue sorties that fixed wing aircraft cannot do.

I saw a nasty film on the TV news of a helicopter placing some machinery on the roof of a tall building when it all went wrong









I think they are amazing machines.

Steve


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## phlogistician (Jul 22, 2003)

Mrcrowley said:


> If I won the lottery though....
> 
> and money did talk....


 We ordered a Dell computer for my girlfriends business the other night, and got the 'Will this computer be used in the manufacture of WMD' question.

If Dell are that paranoid, you're really going to have to sweet talk Sikorsky or Boeing into selling you a Black Hawk/Apache!


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

Like you're really going to reply'Yep, the pc will be used as a guidance system for the stash of SAMs I have in my back kitchen'....

Unbelieveable.

I bought a Dell a few months ago. Stupid questions like that is another insult to customers like ourselves - along with the crap software I got with it. You get this & that it said. What it didn't say is it's all trial stuff bar the OS, that expired after 30 days.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

I done a lot of work for 3 / 4 years for the main agent in the UK of a certain well known make of helicopter. I used to repair the air conditioning systems on them.

I won't name the agent or the helicopter make, but even the chief engineer was not keen in going up in them.

They are far more fragile then fixed wing and as Eric knows, most fixed wing, even with total engine failure, have a chance of gliding to a land, albeit a dodgy and heavy one.

Helicopters do not like harsh or abrupt inputs and are inherently unstable, they can spiral out of control simply from an abrupt control input.

As mentioned, a percentage of crashes are due to them often being placed in difficult rescue situations which a fixed wing is simply not capable of, but on the whole, crashes seem to be 50 / 50 pilot, machine. I believe that fixed wing it's more like pilot 90%, machine 10%.

G.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

I've heard it said that the tail rotors are very often the cause of crashes. Once they go dicky, so does the flight!!!


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

Correct Griff,

The tail rotor is normally driven from a transfer box from the main gearbox. If the tail rotor fails, kiss goodbye to your ar**.!!

G.


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## ericp (Feb 23, 2003)

I have a couple of RC helicopters.....

Cracking fun.....

But loose concentration for .001 of a second and you are looking at a repair bill







)

Eric


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

Hi Eric,

I've thought about one of these for a while. Are they expensive......?

G.


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## ericp (Feb 23, 2003)

Its as expensive as you want it to be.....

Maybe if its your first model then the costs are a little higher as you need get the basic gear......

You can spend thousands on one model if you wish !!!

Eric


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

There's a shop about 8 miles from me that do these. Maybe I'll finally go in there and have a look at the models. Have to try not to crash too much though......

How many crashes did you have when learning Eric??

G.


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## ericp (Feb 23, 2003)

None !!!

I practiced for ages on an RC Simulator ( helis and aeros) you plug your transmitter into your pc, setup the exact characteristics of your model and away you go....

Saved me a fortune !!!!

Eric


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

........Blimey, that was a quick reply!!

I use the FS2002 quite regularly and fly around, land, take off in the Jet Ranger no problem...........will this be an advantage Eric?

Ta.

G.


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## ericp (Feb 23, 2003)

Yes and no....

Yes because you will no doubt understand some of the principles of heli flying....

No becuase the models are very very sensitive....Even the "trainer" models, are very agile.....

Its possible to hover them upside down by virtue of the range of pitch available.

The throttle and collective pitch controls on the models are linked, however on a decent radio set you can set the throttle to be "open" with the blades set at a negative pitch.....Takes a bit of doing but its quite impressive.....

Additionally the "rudder" control is very tricky, even with a top rate gyro damping out the uncommanded yaw, you will still struggle initially.

The new version of microsofts flight sim is great, (flight sim 9 a century of flight) This version comes closest to recreating VFR flights out of all the PC sims I have seen, very nice.

Eric

Eric


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

Thanks Eric,

Very interesting.....upside down!!, amazing.

A friend of mine who sadly moved to New Zealand was a 737 pilot. He played around on FS2000 and said that the aircraft was harder to land than a real one.

He said to me one night that if you could land a 737 on FS2000, you could almost certainly land a real one. He was quite impressed with the programme.......what do you think of the FS series......?

G.


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

What is the maximum distance you can fly the RC helos away from the transmitter? I've never seen an RC helo but I see the fixed wing ones in Richmond Park as I wheeze around on my bike. Interesting launch technique: glider style launching rope.


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Fascinating post diversion by the way Eric. I have been considering starting my PPL, I was thinking of White Waltham, do you know it?

Simon


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## Andy Mac (Jun 11, 2003)

I agree the new Flight Sim 2004 is fantastic. Cloud formations are particularly real looking.

Interestingly in the Flight Sim 2004 learning centre the opening paragraph says that if learning to fly a plane was compared to riding a bicycle then flying a helicopter would be like riding a unicycle --- while juggling!

The next paragraph states that they are inherently unstable, and an average student needs 10 - 15 hours just to manage the basics.

That explains why I alway crash after about 3 mins.

Andy Mac


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## ericp (Feb 23, 2003)

Hello,

Si....

I know of White Waltham, but have never visited it...

I must also confess to being confused by your post about launching helis glider style....? This is a first on me !

When I was learning fixed wing, I went solo after 9 hours, its a fantastic moment....You land, the instructor hops out, and sends you off round the circuit again...Awesome experience. The first thing that struck me was how much more rapidly the aircraft climbs one up...

FS2004 is very good....I have been playing with it since Friday, very nice weather and turbulence effects, the aircraft handling is also a little more realistic.

Eric


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Hi Eric, it is the fixed wing RC aircraft I saw being launched this way, I haven't seen a model helicopter being used there yet.

Simon


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## ericp (Feb 23, 2003)

Si,

Sorry....

I misread.

Eric


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

I'd like a R/C helicopter, but there's nowhere safe around here to fly it. Maybe when I move house....

So what is the best flight sim program? I think I could make do with that for now.


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## Andy Mac (Jun 11, 2003)

Microsoft have just released Flight Sim 2004.

It is without doubt the best available, you can fly load of planes from practically anywhere in the world.

Check it out here:

MS Flight Sim 2004

Andy Mac


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## ericp (Feb 23, 2003)

I would go along with that.....

You need a decent machine though !!!

Eric


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

An Andy Mac you mean, or something similar


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

AndyMac, Eric,

Just bought FS2004, but when installed runs like a slug.

I've got a 1.3GB, 128 ram on Windows ME. I would have thought this should run it ok, FS2002 runs very fast on this.......any thoughts?.

I've taken it off at the moment and put 2002 back on.

Thanks

G.


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## ericp (Feb 23, 2003)

Hello,

Defrag the disk before you install it.

Get the latest drivers for your Graphics and Sound Card.

It may sound daft but the sound card can have a dramatic impact on frame rate if its not set up with latest drivers etc.

Try that, give it a whirl and let us know how you get on.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

Thanks Eric,

Graphics card is very new with 128mb, will defag tonight and re-install.

Thanks again.

G.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

Thanks Eric,

Graphics card is very new with 128mb, will defag tonight and re-install.

Thanks again.

G.


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