# Made In Usa?



## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

I recently won these two on ebay...










As far as I can tell use of the block capital `SERVICES` logo appeared around the late 1950s early 60s, Steve Burrage started with the company in the mid-60s & told me that he doesn`t remember Aviation still being in production at that time so I presume this one to have been made around the same time.

You can see that the Aviation has `British Made` on the dial & the Services has `Made in GT. Britain` which indicates they were made by the Anglo-Celtic Watch Co.Ltd., Gurnos Works, Ystradgynlais, Wales. However although both the movements appear near identical the Services has `Made in Gt.Britain`whereas the Aviation has `Made in U.S.A.` it looks genuine.










So does anyone know if these movements were actually made in America? :huh:


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## Mikrolisk (Jan 23, 2008)

Maybe(!!!) the (english) company has had another production building in America?

But dunno.

Andreas


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## Chascomm (Sep 9, 2005)

News to me. I thought they stopped making those in America long before the 1950s. I'm really surprised that they looks so similar given the decades in which this design would have been made on both sides of the Atlantic. Scarcely any signs of mutation at all.

To thosethat haven't read the story already:

The design goes back to about 1900 with the first full-plate movement for the Ingersoll Yankee. The British Ingersoll subsidiary was set up in 1906 assembling watches with this movement, and by 1912 was making complete watches. This continued through the 1920s.

Meanwhile the American Ingersoll company had been bought out by Waterbury. Eventually it became Timex. I had mistakenly thought US production of this watch ceased before the war. Obviously from your evidence I was wrong.

After WWII, Ingersoll (the British company) and Smiths set up the Anglo-Celtic works and started making this movement again. ZuanShi (in Shanghai) copied the centre-seconds version in 1958, and production spread to a couple of other Chinese factories in the 1960s and 70s. In Wales meanwhile they stayed in production until 1980.

OK, here's a theory. Anglo-Celtic was supposed to have started production in 1947, but there were delays of several months. If they had already taken orders from Services, they would have had to fill the orders with bought-in parts. The cases were no problem as I think they came from the Enfield works next door. The problem with my theory is that the logo is not the right one for 1947.


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

An interesting theory, as far as I can tell in the late 1940s/early 50s Services were selling Pocket watches sourced from Switzerland until I presume import restrictions made them switch to Wales.

The company later got them from East Germany & (may be) finally from Russia although of course it is also possible that they delt with different companies at the same time.

As mentioned the style of logo used on the Services as far as I can tell dates it earliest to the late 50s (although the 24 hour dial had been used by the company since the early days late 20s/early 30s), admittedly I can`t be certain when the Aviation was made.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Well, that's a very suitable use for mixed numerals on a dial - Roman for the l to Xll and then 13 to 24 for the 24 hours bit. Not seen (or maybe noticed) that before.









What a wealth of expertise there is on :rltb: :yes:


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