# Restoring My Omega Watch



## Paper Lawyer

Hi everyone

Well, I never rush into buying things and I never got around to buying the Speedie I mentioned on a thread some months ago. I will frequently look at the watches on ebay and last week I got carried away and bought this watch thinking that it looked original:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/STUNNING-RARE-MILITA...1QQcmdZViewItem

I've emailed Swiss Time Services to obtain a ball park restoration figure (accepting that only when they receive the watch can they give a proper estimate) and I've been told Â£300 plus VAT.

The problem is, I'm not 100% sure I want to spend the money on the watch. It looked potentially great in the photos but it is only now that I realise how small it is. I've got slender wrists but this watch makes my modern Seiko kinetic look huge! I'm worried that I will spend the money on the watch to get it restored and I still won't be over the moon about it.

I didn't buy the watch with the intention of turning a profit but equally I'm not minded to spend a substantial amount of money which cannot be recovered by selling the restored watch, if I don't like it.

I have no idea of its likely value following a quality restoration job - does anyone have an idea? I may of course be completely overwhelmed by its restored appearance, but I'm a lawyer so I'm looking at the worse case scenario!









Thanks

Craig


----------



## Paper Lawyer

I thought that was the case-the serial number suggests 1940 according to the omega website. Not concerned that it is not a military watch


----------



## Steve R

hmm... link doesn't work...


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Hmmmm, it no longer does. It is item 280174028819 on ebay


----------



## Steve R

There she is!









Well I'll start by declaring I've no useful experience or expertise in such restorations, therefore you should disregard everything I'm about to say!







However...

It does look a little bit sorry for itself doesn't it... but it definitely has a certain charm. I'm sure if it was restored it would be a li'l stunner, but it certainly won't grow bigger so you have a point there! Why not stick it on a cheapie strap and wear it for a few days and see how you gel?

Following an Â£85 service which is undoubtedly more than its monetary (though not sentimental) value, I've recently put back into service a similarly sized and similarly... let's say experienced(!), Helvetia watch that belonged to my late grandfather.

At first I thought it was shockingly small but I must admit I've become very attached to it, to the point that going back to my chunky modern Tag in the interests of conserving the old timer has been a bit of a drag! You may find it grows on you as a wearing experience, and that might help you decide how to proceed. You say you're not tree-trunk-like in the wrist department and I'm certainly made of string - the ability to wear smaller vintage watches is an area where we have a distinct advantage over all the chunky buggers!

By the way, again with the caveat that I don't know what I'm talking about, Omega in Bienne have restored watches for other forumers quite brilliantly, and for pretty similar money to the Â£300 you quote I believe. I've no idea whether it's a good plan or not, but it wouldn't hurt to drop them a line and see if they would take the job on and give you some idea of likely cost. I think there would be something particularly pleasing about sending it home for some TLC, and from what I've seen they're miracle workers!

Anyway that's my five bobs' worth - don't give up on the poor li'l sausage, there's potential in there I'm sure!









S.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Thanks for the reply Steve. The watch seems in not so bad nick in the flesh. The crystal seems to have avoided any scratches of substance and it is the tarnished dial/hands and scratches on the case which need the real attention. Not used to this manual winding either









Maybe I should hunt down a cheap strap this week and give it a go. I love the idea of getting it returned to its former glory but I'd like to know a bit more about the watch (more than my guess work on the Omega website, anyway). The number stamped on the back is different from that on the movement - I assume the case back is from another, similar, watch? Is that such a big deal? I really wanted to avoid a Frankenstein's watch, hence the decision to go for one in need of some TLC


----------



## strange_too

Firstly as the movement dates from the forties it means it falls into a different restoration category with Omega. A service on this movement is 660 CHF, as it's Cat A of the Very Old Movements Section.

Restoration of the dial, hands etc will cost you more, about the same again.

Personally I won't got to STS, I'd go to Bienne much better at what they do.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

So realistically that is about Â£600 from Bienne?







I really have to like it for that because it is approaching secondhand Speedie territory! Is it realistic to expect to recover the restoration cost on resale if I don't get on with the restored watch?


----------



## strange_too

Paper Lawyer said:


> So realistically that is about Â£600 from Bienne?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really have to like it for that because it is approaching secondhand Speedie territory! Is it realistic to expect to recover the restoration cost on resale if I don't get on with the restored watch?


Well it's an estimation. I don't know what the dial and hands etc cost or if they are available from Omega, as it's an unknown watch to me.

The movement costs are the only known thing here, just by looking 2007 Price List. The only way you will really know is by getting an estimate by Omega or STS.

Possibly, but something like this is always likely to cost you more than you could ever sell it for.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

OK, I will ponder some more over the weekend and see how I get on with the watch. I'll also keep an eye out on ebay for bigger vintage watches


----------



## kay

Steve R said:


> hmm... link doesn't work...


Link cannot work.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

I've finally set up a photobucket account as I can't create direct links to my Honda S2000 website photo albums. Here are a few shots (so you don't need to hunt on ebay).





































I'm waiting for STS to come back to me with a restoration estimate - the watch was sent on Monday morning to them.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

final couple of photos


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Oh lord, moved photos into a sub album and links went dead. For the final time!


----------



## Toshi

HI Craig

Just wanted to echo what Strange too suggested. If you _are_ thinking about restoring the Omega I would strongly suggest sending it to Omega at Bienne. They'll send you a quote for the work to bring it up to pristine condition, and if it's too much you can just request they send the watch back.

I've seen some stunning restorations they've done in the past, and have been so impressed I have a Speedmaster MkII there at the moment (They quoted me Â£275 which included full service, case restoration, new dial and hands, and a new bracelet). I realise this is a lot older and so it may well fall into a different category (and higher cost), and a lot depends if they have parts for it, but sending it there would at least let you know what it would cost so you can decide what to do with it.

Good luck









Rich


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Thanks Rich, I guess I'll see what STS say re value of the watch post-restoration. If they sound in any way unconfident in any aspect of the restoration (e.g. want to replace, rather than restore, parts) then I can send the watch over to Bienne and see what they say


----------



## JonW

Its your choice but imho Bienne is where its at.... End of.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Jon, don't get me wrong, if Bienne is going to do a much better job then I'll get the watch back from STS. STS seemed to have done a very good job for a few people (from a read of some search results) and I thought the quality of work would be essentially the same. If that's not necessarily the case then I welcome the info as it means I will get the watch back from STS and send to Bienne. The only reason I didn't send it straight to Bienne is that I gained the impression (perhaps wrongly) that STS were cheaper (for a similar level of work) and the uncertainty I have regarding the value of the restored watch (I still don't know whether it would be Â£200 or Â£800??) pushed me towards STS. Your advice is much appreciated


----------



## JonW

Its just that I have heard some bad things about STS, but nothing bad about Bienne. Most people struggle to get their watch sent back to Bienne as the local Omega reps always try to do it inside the country they (and you) are in, with mixed results. from what I can tell the price will be the same but STS dont have all the machines or acess to all the parts that Bienne do and sometimes have made some poor decisions with peoples pride and joy. Quite why when there is the possibility to send it back to where it was made, anyone would choose a local repair station is beyond me - For servicing something normal (say a late 1990s speedy) then yes use STS, for a restoration of something rare then Bienne. I would treat this like it was a Ploprof or something of that ilk... ie. its a pretty normal movement but its the details you want to be right... ie, it goes to Bienne.

See what STS say, but I dont bother with any local Approved Omega house now, I just send it to the factory. Just my 2c and I do know people have been happy with the results of their watches that STS have done etc.


----------



## Toshi

JonW said:


> Its just that I have heard some bad things about STS, but nothing bad about Bienne.


There was a post of the Swiss watch forum a couple of weeks ago about a forum member who had some issues with STS if I remember correctly.

Rich


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Was it this thread?

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?s...+time++services

From a brief scan, I can't ascertain if STS were actually identified as the culprits?


----------



## Toshi

Paper Lawyer said:


> Was it this thread?
> 
> http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?s...+time++services
> 
> From a brief scan, I can't ascertain if STS were actually identified as the culprits?


That's the one.

I have also heard good things about STS, but one or two problems where watches were returned in conditions that were just plain wrong IMO. By all means ask STS for a quote to restore the watch, but then send it to Bienne also. I'm certain the costs will be about the same, and I've not heard a bad word about Bienne's restorations yet.

My Speedmaster MkII has just arrived home from Bienne this morning (







) so I will be posting before and after pics later. I realise it's a different project to yours entirely, but I couldn't be happier with the results. Not only that, but they kept me informed the whole time about the restoration.

Rich


----------



## Paper Lawyer

That sounds positive - I'd love a Speedie. Which really brings me back to the only unanswered question - what would a restored manual winding Omega ever sell for? I know it is hard to assess (unlike, say, a Speedie) but I see them going cheap on ebay (undoubtedly many are fakes or badly restored) whereas STS's own pre-owned watches webpage would suggest that there is no such thing as a cheap Omega.


----------



## Agent orange

Hi Craig,

Just to share a few of my experiences from when I had my MKII Speedmaster restored.

1. STS quoted exactly the same price as Bienne, to the penny. So sending to Bienne will not be any more expensive.

2. STS are the official UK Omega restorers, however they do not have the correct tooling for some Omega cases. The official policy is that anything they're not equipped to do is sent to Bienne anyway. The majority of the bad reports I've read concern case refinishing where it's evident they didn't follow company policy.

3. I think, from what I've read and seen, that they subcontract work in busy periods, with very varying results.

Don't get me wrong I have no beef with STS as I've never used them. I'm just relaying info that people, very kindly, gave to me when I undertook my MKII restoration project. My view is why take the risk, when for the same price you can have it done professionally, at source, with people that are fully equipped and skilled.

Hope this helps a little and if you need any more info about my dealings and experiences with Bienne just get in touch. Good luck.

Cheers,

Gary

P.S. Sorry I can't help you with the value of your Omega.


----------



## Barryboy

Might I make a suggestion? It seems obvious to me that you don't want the watch as it is, and that putting it back to top-flight condition will not be a financial success (renovated watches, like restored cars, never seem to be worth anything like the total investment in them) so why not just put it back on the 'Bay and move it on, stressing it's fine original condition, of course!!

If you lose any money on the deal it won't be anything like the beating you'd take if you paid for a full restoration and then sold it, and if you break even, well that's great. This doesn't seem to be a 'grail' piece to you so you won't lose too much sleep if you decide not to keep it.

Up to you of course, but in your circumstances I would be tempted to bail out.

Rob


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Rob, it is something I am considering. I do like the design of the watch but I'm not willing to waste money on it - there are too many nice watches out there which don't represent such a wasted cost. I'll see if STS come back with any interesting details regarding the watch which may make it more valuable than the Â£90.88 I spent on it


----------



## Paper Lawyer

FInally received my quote from STS, almost three weeks since they received my watch. Bearing in mind the specific question I raised in my covering letter, I am disapointed I simply received a quote via email stating the following:

GTS SS OMEGA - SERVICE 272.34 47.66

DIAL RESTORE 93.75 16.41

BROWN CALF STRAP 20.88 3.65

Carriage Â£5

Total approx Â£460 inc VAT.

Absolutely no info about the watch itself or whether the hands would be restored or replaced. Perhaps the hard copy in the post to me will contain further details, but I doubt it.

Not impressed


----------



## Toshi

Best thing to do would be call them and talk it through with them now they've seen the watch and you have the quote.

When Bienne sent me the first quote for my speedmaster it was similarly vague, but when I called they talked me through everything they thought should be done, and gave me alternatives when I said I didn't want a new case.

It's best that you are both clear what you expect before they start if they are going to do the work for you.

Good luck, and keep us posted









Rich


----------



## Robert

Paper Lawyer said:


> GTS SS OMEGA - SERVICE 272.34 47.66
> 
> DIAL RESTORE 93.75 16.41
> 
> BROWN CALF STRAP 20.88 3.65
> 
> Carriage Â£5
> 
> Total approx Â£460 inc VAT.


Thats a lot to spend with such a brief description.

As Rich says, definitely worth a chat with them


----------



## Paper Lawyer

I've been trying to find out more about the watch using the code quoted: 272.34 47.66

But I'm drawing a blank on the Omega website. Do I need to use part of the number, drop the decimal points or something else?


----------



## strange_too

It's not a part number, it's the price and the VAT to be added.

GTS SS OMEGA - SERVICE Â£272.34 + Â£47.66 VAT

DIAL RESTORE Â£93.75 + Â£16.41 VAT

BROWN CALF STRAP Â£20.88 + Â£3.65 VAT


----------



## Paper Lawyer

You can tell I was tired last night - when I originally posted the details up I nearly labelled the VAT etc - how do I then forget what the figures are


----------



## Silver Hawk

strange_too said:


> It's not a part number, it's the price and the VAT to be added.


----------



## PhilM

Go on treat yourself, get it sent to Bienne... it will be worth it for sure


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Should I ask for it to be returned to me, and then send to Bienne, or ask for it to be sent direct? I don't want to cause offence but it will be quicker to ask for it to be sent direct.

I'm at my office desk, chasing a bonus (target will be hit on Christmas Eve) so perhaps I should treat myself









The dial restoration looked pricey but I guess that at least means it will be the original dial? I know, I know, I should just phone and ask!


----------



## Toshi

Paper Lawyer said:


> Should I ask for it to be returned to me, and then send to Bienne, or ask for it to be sent direct? I don't want to cause offence but it will be quicker to ask for it to be sent direct.
> 
> I'm at my office desk, chasing a bonus (target will be hit on Christmas Eve) so perhaps I should treat myself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The dial restoration looked pricey but I guess that at least means it will be the original dial? I know, I know, I should just phone and ask!


If you've decided not to ask STS to carry out the work I would ask for it to be returned to you, and then send it to Bienne yourself. Yes, it will take a couple of days more, but it might be a bit cheeky asking STS to forward it for you (and heaven forbid the watch was to go missing....)

I'd email Bienne first to let them know the watch is on it's way - they'll tell you what you need to do (customs paperwork etc)

Rich


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Well, I've received the estimate in the post and the covering letter is much more helpful


















In respect of the comments re the dial, what is a "refresh" in Bienne-speak? Does that mean replacement? I'd rather have the original dial, subject to Bienne begin able to restore it near enough to its original condition.

Will Bienne do a better job of case restoration? It has been previously mentioned that Bienne have the proper case back machinery.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

I received my watch back from STS earlier this week and received an email from Bienne this morning. Interestingly, Bienne suggest that the watch should be sent to Swatch UK for onward shipment to Bienne. Has anyone else followed this proposed route?

_"Dear Mr. Armstrong,_

We thank you for your email and would like to apologize for the delay in responding to your message.

We are pleased to learn that you acquired an OMEGA watch recently which you would like to have restored in our workshop in Bienne.

We shall gladly take care of your timepiece. A direct shipment to Switzerland should be made by registered and insured mail, together with a Customs exemption certificate, in order to avoid difficulties upon return to your country. Please make sure that your parcel is clearly marked â€œwatch for repair/customs clearance by receiver in Bienneâ€.

Our address:

OMEGA SA, Customer Service

Rue StÃ¤mpfli 96, CH 2500 Bienne 4

Switzerland

In order to simplify the handling of the watch and to avoid you the shipping and customs procedures, we can also recommend you to send in the watch by registered and insured mail to our UK affiliate

The Swatch Group (UK) Ltd.

112 Southampton Rd.

Eastleigh

Hampshire SO50 5P8, U.K.

Tel: 0044 845 272 3100

Fax: 0044 23 8064 6900

E-Mail: [email protected]

Upon receipt, your OMEGA will be carefully examined and, prior to starting any repair work, a detailed estimate will be submitted to you for approval.

However please understand that without having had the opportunity of examining your watch we cannot comment on its repair. In this connection we should like to mention that OMEGA ensures the availability of spare parts during about 20 years starting from the last sale of a watch type ex factory. But even after this period, most of the OMEGA watches can be repaired or restored according to their individual condition, thus allowing the loyal OMEGA customers worldwide to wear their OMEGA timepieces for many more years.

Thanking you for the confidence you have placed in our brand, we look forward to receiving your shipment at either OMEGA HQ Bienne or The Swatch Group (UK) and can assure you that your timepiece will be given careful attention."

Craig


----------



## Toshi

No, I sent mine directly to Bienne.

Didn't have this option when I sent in my Speedie (I don't think).

Glad you got a reply though

Rich


----------



## strange_too

By the looks of it your reply was routed outside of Bienne back to Swatch UK, that's why you got the Swatch UK reply.

Craig doesn't feel a very Swiss name to me.........


----------



## Paper Lawyer

It isn't, it is my own 

The end of the email (which I had left off):

_Best regards,_

Christine Loraux

INTERNATIONAL CUSTOMER CARE

Ω OMEGA SA

RUE STAEMPFLI 96

2500 BIENNE 4

SWITZERLAND

[email protected]

www.omegawatches.com


----------



## Paper Lawyer

A little update - I sent my watch to Bienne in early January and I'm still awaiting the cost estimate. I've chased for a response and I was told today that:

"We had to send out the dial to our specialist for an estimate to get it refurbished."

So Bienne don't appear to do everything in-house!

Bienne hope to give me the estimate next week.


----------



## chris l

I did the same soul searching and research as yourself whilst watching your watch on the 'bay. I really liked the watch, but how much is reasonable, and how much would I be writing off in the cause of restoration?

My head hurt so much that I opted out: you have my deepest sympathy. 

Almost all Swiss watches dated from the war years must have _some _military association, surely, as imports were strictly controlled and directed to the services and to other essential workers. I found this little Titus a while ago, which has been imperfectly restored, with an engraving dated October 3rd, '44. I found this evocative, as it was the day the last para's evacuated from Arnhem.





I'm going to have it gently improved; hands and a service, and just enjoy it!

Good luck to you whatever you decide.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Deep intake of breathe....



















That works out to be about Â£575.....really in a quandry now is I have no idea whatsoever as to the likely value of the restored watch. I'm also not happy that the repair time estimate is 37 weeks and the dial will be "exchanged".


----------



## Toshi

Hi Craig

I don't think they are replacing the dial. The quote states CHF475 to refurbish the dial, so it looks like they will restore the existing dial. If they had a NOS dial and were simply fitting that it would not be that expensive, but I doubt they have one for your watch. This might also account for some of the 37 weeks.

As for the length of time it takes I know they are very busy. Personally I would be more concerned if they said it would take only 4 weeks judging by the amount of work the watch needs. Some might say it is reassuring that they will take their time and do the job properly? It seems like a long time, but rest assured if you go ahead you will be stunned by the watch when it comes back.









I think in Bienne are the victim of their success. Their work that I have seen has always been exceptional, and I think many people have realised that too and have done what you are doing.

As for the value of the watch after the work - IMO this shouldn't be seen as an investment, but if you really want to have this done it was never going to be cheap because of the condition of the watch. If you go ahead I have no doubt you will be pleased with the results, but if you are expecting the watch to be woth more than the cost of the restoration I personally think you might be disapointed.

Rich


----------



## JoT

Hmmm ... difficult decision

Seems to be a bit contradictory, they indicate a dial exchange will be necessary then quite you for a refurbishment. The 37 weeks is quite a long time perhaps they are refurbishing the dial rather than exchanging it, I would be very surprised of they had one in stock!


----------



## allaction

It would be easier to justify if the watch had sentimental or emotional value to you, but as you purchased as is and are obviously having doubts I'd get it back and whack it on ebay. If it's never going to be worth what you have in it you may always begrudge spending the money on it. If its just a bit of fun and you intend to keep it for ever then it's a different matter, but I'd get shot.


----------



## Marky

I get the feeling you no longer really want the poor little thing?

If this is the case then I suggest you don't spend the money on the refurb as has been said in another post you will not get the money back in increased value and later on and you may well loose more if/when you decide to flip it........

Good luck with the decision.............


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Hi guys, that's all good food for thought.

Whilst it does not have sentimental value, I am fond of it, hence I really don't want the dial replaced.

If I get the work done then the watch will have cost me almost Â£700 in total (including purchase price). I would not be concerned if its market value were, say, Â£500. But I would be concerned if its value was just Â£200.

Looking on the chrono24 website at Omega watches circa 1940, there appears to be quite a range of value and it is too difficult for a noobie WIS to make a sensible judgment of value.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

By way of example, this Omega is on offer for Â£330. It is a 1939 manual winder, although the condition is not Bienne-grade.










quick comparison shot:


----------



## JonW

37 weeks is normal these days... Bienne are overrun with work... everything they have of mine is in this ball park.









JoT the wording is because they use 'phrases' on the condition report, its not really a mismatch between whats being said, its just translation issues... plus the guy who does the condition report isnt the same guy who quotes for repair etc. One is saying it needs a new dial, the other is saying 'we dont have a dial for you, but can refinish your old one'. if that makes sense...

My view... if you love and will keep this watch its a bargain... if you just wanted to have a nice old omega then its not gonna work for you. Why not ebay it for what you paid and then use the cash you would spend on this one plus the sale cash and get another better one?


----------



## Paper Lawyer

After six weeks of waiting, Omega have responded to my clarification questions. The dial will be refurbished (as opposed to being replaced), identical or original hands will be fitted, and the extract from records will be the online database entry printed on Omega paper (is that worth Â£25?!).

With regards the strap, the only strap Omega can provide is this croc strap for Â£50:










I'm in two minds as the watch may look better on a black strap once refurbed (black and gold dial). Is the strap a good deal at that price or should I simply hold off and buy an RLT strap once the watch has been refurbished?

What do you think?


----------



## jasonm

It depends if you want the cachet of a original Omega strap, personaly I would spend Â£50 on a couple of quality straps from elsewhere....


----------



## JonW

I always have the extract...but wouldnt get teh strap... just my 2c


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Well, I authorised the restoration last week (nearly Â£600 on my credit card) and, based on the helpful input from you guys, I've gone for the extract from records but not the strap. If the lead time is correct, I should receive the watch in early 2009!


----------



## johndozier

I think you will be pleased with your decision. Compare the cost to the price of a new and more poorly made Omega. I like the sub dial, a feature rarely found today. I have recently acquired a Wyler-Vetta in 18k with a sub dial, and plan to restore it as you have done. Alas, the factory is no more so the work will be done by outside sources. I hope it comes out as well as I know yours will. Kindest regards. Dr. Dozier sends


----------



## JoT

johndozier said:


> ...... Compare the cost to the price of a new and more poorly made Omega.


I have vintage Omegas and modern Omegas and the modern ones are a much better quality so I am interested to know why you think modern Omegas are "more poorly made"


----------



## chris l

Paper Lawyer said:


> After six weeks of waiting, Omega have responded to my clarification questions. The dial will be refurbished (as opposed to being replaced), identical or original hands will be fitted, and the extract from records will be the online database entry printed on Omega paper (is that worth Â£25?!).
> 
> With regards the strap, the only strap Omega can provide is this croc strap for Â£50:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in two minds as the watch may look better on a black strap once refurbed (black and gold dial). Is the strap a good deal at that price or should I simply hold off and buy an RLT strap once the watch has been refurbished?
> 
> What do you think?


This is on a new aftermarket 'Omega' strap, which I really like. It has an 'Omega' buckle and markings, and cost about Â£25.










I realise that may be sacrilege on such an impeccably restored watch as yours, but it's worth a thought.


----------



## johndozier

I suppose it has to do with the amount of hand labor involved. I do not deny that CNC machining can produce tighter tolerances. i am not certain that "tighter tolerances" equates with higher qaulity. I submit the Rolls Silver Ghost vis a vis a contemporary Rolls as an example. I would be interested in your views on the topic, maybe a new thread entirely. Kindest regards, Dr. Dozier sends


----------



## JonW

JoT, I find the modern Omegas dont have the finishing the older (70s) models do. The modern ones are most likley done on a machine production line wheras the older ones seem to have been completed by hand. The cases on the moden ones never feel as sharp as the 70s models. I also feel the modern watches tend to lack 'soul' but what do I know about it  Ive tried to buy moden Omegas from ADs and Ive owned a modern Speedy as well as an SMP. The SMP is a keeper as its a hark back to the early quartz, but the modern speedy wasnt a patch on the original to me. I love my old model which is well worn. All my 2c worth and more about feeling than substance. What I can say is that modern sealing is better and will last longer, sapphire is way better than the mineral most Omegas had in the 70s too. The movement is up for debate. I believe Omegas in house movts from the 60s-70s were superb and thats backed up by those that are running fine today. I hope we can say the same of the Coaxial in 30-40 years. IMHO the watches are as different as the company and the times were compared to today. Compared to Rolex thats an issue, but compared to most other brands its more than acceptable. you pays yer money and takes yer choice I guess 

As for straps, check cousins and see their Omega range of straps, you can get a nice original Omega calf for minimal money on there and and original buckle as well. It never ceases to amaze me how much people pay off ebay for items they could order from Cousins... sigh...


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Wow! Cousins have the Omega brown calf strap and stainless steel buckle for Â£17.50! Thanks for the recommendation 

http://www.cousinsuk.com/catalog/4/0/1944/3153.aspx


----------



## JonW

I expect the Omega one is a real croc version and the one on Cousins is calf with a pattern - both valid but different materials etc. Usually Omega Bienne is the cheapest way to get any kind of Omega strap or bracelet (much cheaper than ebay etc) and Omega Leather straps do range from Â£10 to hundreds. In this case you get the same look much cheaper and from the same manufacturer, you cant say fairer than that.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Right, this is probably going to have you all in stitches but I'll going to pull the restoration work if the information is correct.

I've just received in the post the extract from records provided by Omega. Here's the info. See if you can guess why I'm a little miffed....

*Description of the watch*

*Type:* Omega - Art Deco - Ladies' leather strap

*Calibre:* R 17.8, manual winding

*Metal:* Stainless Steel

*Bracelet:* Leather strap

*Characteristics*

*Movement no:* 9,163,266

*Case reference:* 557

*Watch reference:* CK 2143

*Dial:* Black with luminous hands and hour markers (radium)

*Production Date:* November 13th, 1940

*Remarks:* Delivery country not available

Now there are 10 watches with a R17,8 caliber listed on the Omega website. Is the categorisation of my watch based on Omega's records or some guess work on their part?

In particular, does the watch look like it had illuminous hands??










Ladies' watch!?!


----------



## Paper Lawyer

For example, is it clearly not the CK 2144?

Gents' leather strap

Reference CK 2144

International collection 1941

Movement

* Type: Manual winding (mechanical)

* Caliber number: R 17,8

* Created in 1940

15 jewels

Functions

Subsecond

Case

Stainless steel

Case back

* Press-in

* Full metal

Dial

Not available

Crystal

Hesalite

Bracelet

Leather

Water resistance

No


----------



## mjolnir

Doesn't look like a ladies watch to me. They refer to it as a gent's Omega Watch in your previous correspondence with them as well.

How big is it? Bearing in mind that watches have generally grown over the years... 34-34mm? Would be about right for a gents watch of the period wouldn't it?

Not sure about the lumed hands though.

I like the look of this watch and I was looking forward to seeing pictures of it when it was finished but it's your money and you need to be certain.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

I've looked through my correspondence and STS refer to the watch in their quote as "GTS SS OMEGA - SERVICE"

I assume that is shorthand for Gents Stainless Steel, but perhaps I'm wrong?

Bienne never refer to it as a gents watch, merely my "Omega watch".

It was described on the ebay ad as about 30mm case and it certainly looked about that. Looking at the Omega records, both the gents and ladies watches came in that size.

I think I'm going to have to query it with Bienne and see what they say.


----------



## JonW

The info they provided is from the movement number. What its saying is that the movt didnt start off in this watch case from what the exerpt from the records says.... Thats not unheard of after all this time. Either the movt died and was replaced by a spare one by a watchmaker that was the same but 'better', or a watchmaker could have been servicing more than one movt at a time and swapped them inadvertanty. That or the plate with the movement number is the bit that got swapped, or some watchmakers also have been known to keep a stock of serviced movts ready and then just swap them, the one needing servicing will then go into stock and be serviced on a slow day ready for the next one etc...


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Jon, you can tell you are far more knowledgable than me - I'd never have worked that out! So I've been given a certificate which reflects the original case of the movement in question? That's very useful info from you but, to my mind, very unhelpful on Omega's part. I'd much rather the certificate correctly identified the case (and the hands!) and stated that the movement is the correct movement but Omega's records show that it has been taken from a different watch of the same age.

I'm going to see if Omega can issue a certificate along the lines above, if they agree that is an accurate reflection of the watch.

I'm now in fear that the restoration subcontractor is going to try and lume the hands, despite the fact it doesn't appear that they were originally lumed (well, not to my newbies eyes).


----------



## JonW

Yes youve been given the info that goes with that movt number.... ie. the info says what case type in which it was originally fitted.

Its all Omega do when you ask for the certificate as their cases didnt have numbers on them until the 1990s. So the only dating and info they can go on is the movt number. The can probably provide you with the info you need, but its not what the certificate is designed for - all the data hinges off the data recorded against the movt number. Of course, for most people the cert tells them that the movt they have was fitted in the case they expected etc so its no worry. Ive heard of many people tho that dont find out what they expect, last week it was a guy with a Ploprof here locally. So, as i said, it happens...

I am sure that the restoration should be as per the case/dial/watchtype they have in the hand, not what any cert says. They will pull info on the watch type from old catalogues and old files, not the movt number info. I wouldnt worry, but a few emails asking the right questions and saying what you want is always the right way forward, Omega are not Rolex and will not insist on anything afaik. I expect they may well refund the cert info as well, but I would ask them gently, they can be quite accomodating when they offer etc. Cant promise that they will as they have done the leg work and sent you what they could, but they might. see how you go.


----------



## Race2theredline

Interesting reading, may be in the same position myself soon.

R2TR


----------



## JonW

Ok ive had a few 'Indignant of Ipswich' PMs about this as I was one who said he should get the cert... I just want to make it clear about how these processes work at Omega as far as i can tell...

Firstly the restoration estimate process:

- you send in a watch

- its received at the good inwards section and unwrapped

- it gets a number thats realates to you and the job

- it goes to the watchmaker section

- they dismantle and say whats wrong and key that info and a pic into system

- admin person emails you quote using software tool that takes info from watchmaker and finds parts/prices etc Can be added to by the admin person as well with extra options etc

- you approve the estimate

- money is taken

- your watch joins the queue (it would be a long queue so imagine lots of little boxes of all the bits needed to repair/restore it gradulaly advancing towards a desk of a watcmaker - lots of small feet etc  )

- watchmaker starts work with parts in box

- test watch etc

- passes to good outwards who wrap watch

- watch comes home

The way I think the certifcate process works is:

- you ask for cert

- admin person sets flag on software record of your watch to say cert is required

- another admin person gets this movt number in their to-do list

- they find info and key in (unless its already in there)

- cert is computer produced and sent out thru mailing house or mailing dept

So I dont think any one person is to blame when certs dont come back as expected, as im not sure the admin who deals with you ever sees your actual watch (just the pic) and they probably never see the cert. Even if they did they would need to be an expert on the range from history to know something wasnt right. The admin person wasnt to know that the watch listed here wasnt a ladies watch as the pic they had was just a ref pic.

HTH..... its always worth emailing with any questions and problems etc. Omega are very helpful most of the time


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Thanks Jon, that's helpful. I'm going to email Omega in a few minutes. I'd be happiest with a certificate which referred to the case but, if that's not possible because the software tool simply works from the serial number, then I'll settle for a refund.  I'll still get the work done IF the watch is a gents watch (which is the feeling I'm getting from you guys and from STS).


----------



## JonW

Craig, no worries. They may not refund you... they did the work to get the info after all. Im just saying that if you explain it they might. The size of the watch is an indication to the size but the case model number (from the inside back of the case) is the one you need to work out what it is... find that and do a google and an Omega traditions (the website) search.

Oh and forumers from Ipswich, I wasnt saying you (spefically) had PM'd/emailed... I was using the term as a jokey way of alluding to the fact that people who had some issue had PMd.... ever wish you hadnt started LOL Please no more PMs about this thread....


----------



## Paper Lawyer

557?










or 9990024










?


----------



## JonW

The short answer is what my girlfriend says when I ask stuff she doesnt understand... ie. 'Yes'....  Ok, longer answer..... I dont normally work with watches of this age so its a bit out of my league. Im used to inner caseback numbers like 176.0004..... So, I expect its 557 and that it needs a prefix to make something like the CK291 type number but I dont know what to add to it to make it work. Does anyone else know?

Omega Traditions is: http://www.omegawatches.com/cu_vintage/ (there shouldnt be any conflict of interest in that link Mods, but if there is... etc)


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Thanks Jon, I'm familiar with the Omega Traditions website - I was scanning through the R17,8 watches last night, trying to establish a perfect fit between my watch and the descriptions (it doesn't help that there aren't any photos for many of the 1940s watches).


----------



## JonW

Craig, ahh ok...  Im starting to think the original movt number may have been the number on the back of the back... which is interesting. Looking back through the posts, if the ladies and mens watches were both the same size, then its not going to be easy to tell a case swap, but also im wondering if it even matters....


----------



## Paper Lawyer

http://home.xnet.com/~cmaddox/omega_serial_numbers.html

1939 9,000,000

1944 10,000,000

Using the case number, that dates the watch about late 1943/early 1944?


----------



## Paper Lawyer

JonW said:


> but also im wondering if it even matters....


Jon, it doesn't matter as long as (a) the certificate issue is resolved (refund if Omega can't definitively clarify the watch details); and (B) the watch is a gents watch. Would the strap width be indicative or, on such a small watch, inconclusive?


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Third para of STS's letter suggests that the case serial number won't match up necessarily with the movement number?


----------



## JoT

I have just had a look in the Omega bible "A Journey Through Time"

The R.17.8 was produced between 1940 and 1961 and was mainly used in ladies watches but not exclsuively so.

It was also used in rectangular "ultra-flat" watches some of which may be gents watches.

I couldn't find a watch matching yours exactly but there are a several similar described either as ladies watches or 30mm wrist watches (NOT calibre 30mm in case anyone asks!) the 30mm watches have no gents/ladies designation so could be deemed to be the mid-sized of its day perhaps?

As a generalisation most round gents watches of that period seem contain the 28mm or 30mm calibres so would be slightly larger than 30mm; i.e. around 32/33mm.

I don't know if that's of any help.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Hmmm, so the case may not have originally contained a R17,8 movement?  And I thought I'd found the holy grail of ebay - an original vintage watch! If that truly is the case, I'm going to cut my losses and try and cancel the restoration work.

I guess knowing the precise dimensions of the case will be indicative as to whether the R17,8 or the larger 30mm movement was originally contained in the case?


----------



## JoT

Paper Lawyer said:


> Hmmm, so the case may not have originally contained a R17,8 movement?  And I thought I'd found the holy grail of ebay - an original vintage watch! If that truly is the case, I'm going to cut my losses and try and cancel the restoration work.
> 
> I guess knowing the precise dimensions of the case will be indicative as to whether the R17,8 or the larger 30mm movement was originally contained in the case?


I don't think that is valid; like I said there were a number of watches in the book that looked very similar to yours which contained the R17.8

I think it is more likely that the original R17.8 has been replaced with a later R17.8 perhaps this is what STS are refering to?


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Thanks for the info - I've looked at the price of the "bible" 

We'll see what Bienne say


----------



## Paper Lawyer

After more than 3 months of chasing, Omega customer services have come back to me with a response from the Omega musuem - the movement serial number is for a ladies watch but the watch itself could be unisex... They are issuing me a revised certificate free of charge. No idea when the watch will be completed - I'll probably make another post in a further 3 months


----------



## mjolnir

I was actually just wondering, the other day, how your watch was getting on. Glad it's being sorted for you.

I look forward to seeing the final result. Even if it is 3 months down the line


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Email received this afternoon:

"Dear Craig,

We are pleased to inform you that your watch is ready and that we will send it back to you in the beginning of next week by registered postal service.

Convinced that you will continue to wear your beautiful OMEGA timepiece with much pleasure for many more years to come, we remain,

With kind regards,"

Now the fun & games of customs....


----------



## JonW

Cool, cant wait to see it done!


----------



## Steve R

What Jon said!

This seems to have been going on since the dawn of time - I'm very much looking forward to seeing the end result!

S.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

It was my birthday yesterday and I arrived at work this morning to find this waiting for me on my desk....










No photos until I have dug out my decent camera - my blackberry camera isn't going to do it justice (well, I haven't even opened the parcel yet....)


----------



## Agent orange

What great timing, congrats on your birthday and hopefully the perfect pressie! :thumbsup:

I seem to remember my MKII Speedy returning from Bienne a day after my birthday, I wonder if it's an Omega policy.

Cheers,

Gary

P.S. Now get that camera pronto


----------



## Paper Lawyer

It's looking very good....even my girlfriend is (slightly) impressed


----------



## JonW

Wahoo! I love receiving those boxes! 

we need more pix!!!


----------



## Paper Lawyer

I also need to source a black croc strap, preferably Omega. Roy doesn't have one listed unfortunately


----------



## Paper Lawyer

JonW said:


> Wahoo! I love receiving those boxes!
> 
> we need more pix!!!


You only need to wait about 9 hours


----------



## PhilM

Come on more pictures please, otherwise I'm going to have to leave so will miss the unveiling


----------



## feenix

I think a lot of us have been looking forward to seeing this one.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Here's a question for you all - did the original dial have a gold chapter ring or was it simply tarnished? (right terminology? The edge of the dial where the numerals are  )


----------



## mjolnir

Glad it's back. I've been looking forward to seeing how this turned out.

Pics! Quickly!


----------



## feenix

potz said:


> This corporate firewall stuff is driving me barmy. Most threads I'm not allowed to see the pix :taz: and have to wait till I get home.


Don't worry, he's not showing the reveal until he gets home anyway. The only shot so far is the box


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Hmm, I want to order a strap today but I can't make my mind up whether to go for a gold or stainless steel buckle. The gold bucklet picks up the gold hands and dial decoration, whereas the silver picks up the watch case. I appreciate that sight of the watch would help, but any initial thoughts?


----------



## Toshi

Glad it turned up (no customs charges I assume?) and you seem to be happy 

Looking forward to pictures later



Paper Lawyer said:


> Hmm, I want to order a strap today but I can't make my mind up whether to go for a gold or stainless steel buckle. The gold bucklet picks up the gold hands and dial decoration, whereas the silver picks up the watch case. I appreciate that sight of the watch would help, but any initial thoughts?


Personally I would go with the case finish, so stainless - but as you say, difficult to make a choice without seeing the watch :lol:


----------



## Paper Lawyer

I was leaning towards the SS for that reason  I'll order the strap now.

Do I need a proper spring bar tool as well?


----------



## Paper Lawyer

straight or angled fork? Can you tell I have no idea how to use a spring bar tool?


----------



## Marky

Marky said:


> I get the feeling you no longer really want the poor little thing?
> 
> Good luck with the decision.............


Ah glad to see I was wrong yet again . Looking forward to the reveal later


----------



## Boxbrownie

Sod the spring bar tool....show us the piccies! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tease! :skirt:


----------



## Paper Lawyer

I don't know whether I should hold off until the strap is delivered....


----------



## mjolnir

Paper Lawyer said:


> I don't know whether I should hold off until the strap is delivered....


Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :cry2:


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Right, I've raced home on my CBR but:

a) I can't take a decent photo

b ) the light was fading rapidly

c) I have a humble ixus 75, not some funky digital SLR

d) it is raining lightly as you will note....

Just uploading the "best" of the photos to Photobucket....


----------



## Paper Lawyer




----------



## Paper Lawyer

What are your thoughts on the different sub second hand?



















Is that an attempt to return to what should have been the sub second hand or have Omega let me down? I actually prefer the contrast of the black hand on the gold sub second dial.


----------



## mjolnir

I think that's an absolutely beautiful watch.

I know they make you wait for it but they do such a good job. A watch that old restored to new.

Look after it.


----------



## Vincero

Wow what a job!!! if you like the watch, I'd say it's definately worth the money you spent getting it re - done, very nice indeed.

Thanks,

Vincero


----------



## feenix

I think I prefer the style of the original second hand. But its only personal aesthetics, I like the way the whole watch has turned out to be honest. I'm only mentioning the second hand because you asked.


----------



## Twincam

The watch looks great. Second hand looks better now. Love the face.


----------



## skyMAX08

What a thread Wow what a watch this should have been made in to a film :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Toshi

Personally I like it, but the big question is "are you happy with it?" :huh:

It's taken a while (and no doubt a fair budget), and there have been some ups and downs, but now it's back, what are your thoughts?


----------



## Stuart Davies

Looks great - looking forward to a wrist shot sometime - cheers S


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Toshi said:


> Personally I like it, but the big question is "are you happy with it?" :huh:
> 
> It's taken a while (and no doubt a fair budget), and there have been some ups and downs, but now it's back, what are your thoughts?


My immediate thought? "The watch looks great!"

If someone had whispered in my ear when about to bid for it on ebay, almost a year ago; "That will cost you Â£500+ to restore" then I would never have bidded.

Having said that, now I've got it and the spend is long forgotten, I'm really happy with it  You bunch have also encouraged me as I've obtained quotes etc.

I want to get it onto a nice black Omega strap (hopefully this week) and get some wear time. It is quite a different watch to my Seamaster but probably more suited to my skinny wrist size


----------



## tomshep

Simply beautiful The second hand matches the subdial and is a subtle touch although I suspect that the second hand is original as they are similar to those of a Longines I have.

What makes it worth every penny is the enjoyment of wearing probably the best example in existence. You are now the custodian, for the watch will last for generations. It will be something you'll be remembered for.

Congratulations.


----------



## Toshi

Paper Lawyer said:


> Toshi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally I like it, but the big question is "are you happy with it?" :huh:
> 
> It's taken a while (and no doubt a fair budget), and there have been some ups and downs, but now it's back, what are your thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> My immediate thought? "The watch looks great!"
Click to expand...

Then I'm really pleased for you 

I know you've found this whole process frustrating, and I was worried that however good the job Omega did you wouldn't be able to see past that frustration, but it seems you've put that behind you and iut means you can enjoy the watch now. :thumbsup:

So what's the next restoration project going to be? :lol:


----------



## mattbeef

It looks stunning mate. Glad your happy with it as i know i would be.

Will say this though, if i see this on the sales corner within the next 12 months ill come and hunt you down!


----------



## Mr Gilbo

It looks absolutely awesome. I'd have happily waited that long for it!


----------



## JonW

Love it! Well done mate. Wear it in good health.


----------



## Larry from Calgary

That sure is a beauty. :tongue2: Not much else to say. :huh: other than........enjoy it.

:rltb:


----------



## Marky

I hope you enjoy the watch for many years, it's a classy looking thing.


----------



## chris l

Bloody gorgeous!

I do like saving watches like this; economically it makes little sense, but what a good feeling....

It's only money.... and you now have a unique Omega.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Thank you all for your kind words.

I've received the black calf strap today but I have some work to do this evening so the strap fitment may have to wait (I'm also a little nervous that I'll scratch the case as I use the spring bar tool for the first time!).


----------



## mjolnir

chris l said:


> It's only money.... and you now have a unique Omega.


That's how i'd look at it. You'd only spend the money anyway (well, I would) but that watch will last you forever.

It is a stunner. I've been coming back to this thread to check out the pics again.

Edit: If you're worried about scratching the case then put some tape around the lugs to protect them and remove it when you're done. I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of it on a strap. Any chance of a wrist shot to give a sense of scale?


----------



## Paper Lawyer

You lot are so demanding and care hot for the terrible photography demonstrated by yours truly. Well, I've fitted the strap 










(apologies for the smudge on the glass)










EDIT: The photos simply don't do the watch justice - I'll try and do some shots in natural light on Saturday before I go on holiday on Sunday.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Paper Lawyer said:


> What are your thoughts on the different sub second hand?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that an attempt to return to what should have been the sub second hand or have Omega let me down? I actually prefer the contrast of the black hand on the gold sub second dial.


I'm going mad - the sub seconds hand is gold as well - it is simply the way the light has caught it in the photos that it looks darker


----------



## feenix

If the sub second hand is gold then I take back what I said before it looks fine. 

How come you can still afford a holiday, after getting this completed?


----------



## mjolnir

Perfect.

You won't see one looking that good on anyone elses wrist either.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

feenix said:


> How come you can still afford a holiday, after getting this completed?


The advantage of paying Bienne before they start the marathon restoration project


----------



## Sparky

Looks lovely! Enjoy wearing it!

Mark


----------



## Fulminata

That is a magical transformation. :good:

I know it was a close call, but your decision to proceed was a good one and has been suitably rewarded. Looks a million dollars on the wrist, and I think the second hand works well. Wish you many happy years of enjoyment.

Love to see some more pics please.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Hmmm, I'm wearing the watch at work today and I've noticed that the buckle pin is a little too short - essentially it can be pushed through the buckle with very little force. If I do up the strap tighetly, the pin passes through the buckle, allowing the strap to undo. Do I need to have a word with the supplier?


----------



## feenix

Paper Lawyer said:


> Hmmm, I'm wearing the watch at work today and I've noticed that the buckle pin is a little too short - essentially it can be pushed through the buckle with very little force. If I do up the strap tighetly, the pin passes through the buckle, allowing the strap to undo. Do I need to have a word with the supplier?


After all the effort you've gone to with this watch? I'd say you should!


----------



## tomshep

And it is quite big enough not to look silly.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

It has been a long time since I last posted on this thread but I bought myself a Nikon D90 shortly before Christmas and I thought I'd try and take a couple of shots of the Omega at my desk and tidy them up on the PC. Plenty to learn re composition and use of light, but at least the images are a little better than the previous photos I took


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Not sure what happened there but I've lost the ability to edit my previous post so here's the second photo:


----------



## msq

Oh! nice shot! Stunning restoration. Can you remind us of who did the restoration? 10 pages of threads makes my head spin


----------



## mjolnir

I love this watch. It's a classic that's had new life breathed into it. Nice to see it on the forum again.

Nice pictures too. I love the way light plays off a domed acrylic crystal.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

msq said:


> Oh! nice shot! Stunning restoration. Can you remind us of who did the restoration? 10 pages of threads makes my head spin


After a quote from STS, the watch went to Bienne for a full restoration


----------



## JoT

What a great result :yes:


----------



## JoT

Paper Lawyer said:


> Not sure what happened there but I've lost the ability to edit my previous post ....


The edit function is only good for 15 minutes after you post


----------



## jasonm

Very nice indeed..Those hands are just lovely....


----------



## Andy the Squirrel

Very nice, worth doing - you couldn't buy that new if you wanted to.


----------



## JonW

I really love the look of this one. It was defo worth it!


----------



## feenix

Good to see a clearer picture that shows that the second hand is gold in colour. A lovely looking watch, and one of the best threads on the forum.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Thanks guys for all your compliments and thank you in particular to those of you who encouraged me to give the watch the benefit of a top drawer restoration courtesy of Bienne. Once I had received the watch back from Bienne, all my doubts disappeared


----------



## woody77

hi this is my one looks like your one to me. my one from 1940s not been restord but just had a full sevice and runs very well and keeps very time love your one two.all the best woody77.


----------

