# Chrono24 Wonder Invest SP



## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

As promised a copy of my complaint concerning the seller Wonder Invest SP for Poland who I feel was completely unhelpful and also misrepresented the watch he sold me in non-functioning correctly condition.

Dear Chrono24,

I am writing this letter to yourselves and will be publishing it online as way of complaint about the seller Wonder Invest SP. z o.o.

The watch was sold as "mint condition" which even if a subjective appraisal is quite clearly not the case due to the marks and dents on the case/bezel and the old strap with its sweat marks and stitching that has started to come loose.

The watch was also sold as a 39mm, which is clearly not accurate since it is the 37mm produced some years before the release of the 39mm.

The seller tried to get the sale to happen outside your platform, but due to the bad feedback and reports of watches going missing which have been posted online I thought it safer and correct to use the trusted checkout feature giving chrono24 their cut and thinking this would afford me protection against such issues, or at least assistance if there was trouble.

The seller managed to send the watch with no house number on it so it was delayed, then with no pusher so it couldn't be set and then finally that was posted on to me.

The watch failed to run throughout the night and the seller would not discuss any option of where to send it for service (he would not disclose who his watch maker was or be flexible in any regard) he claimed the watch had been checked over, but any watchmaker could see that the watch was dry of lubrication and the rotor not freely rotating to charge the watch. He wished his own watchmaker to solve the problem (no doubt not with the thorough attention a watch like this deserves) and refused to do anything about the old strap which was not declared in the description.

JLC looked at the watch and estimated a repair cost of £1850 to get it back into A1 condition (£750 for a service, 4 new seals at £200 each and a new strap at £300)

I opted for a service with a very reputable watchmaker at Bond Street at a cost of £520 + V.A.T. (which doesn't include a new strap, won't guarantee the integrity of the seals)

The seller offered no apology and not even a token gesture of anything towards these incurred costs. I wonder in fact what Chrono24 does for their money when they are happy for their vendors to operate in such a slapdash way and seem completely neutral about such goings on. In short this seller should not be a trusted seller, and I believe should make some contribution to the service if only what it would have cost to post the watch back and forth to him (and thus he is saving the cost of the service and the cost of the new strap that I feel I should be entitled to)

I am keeping the watch since it took me quite some time to locate this particular model, but unless some sort of action is taken on the matter my next purchase is unlikely to occur through your platform.

Many thanks

David


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## wrenny1969 (Jun 24, 2008)

Isn't this a private matter?


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Not really, I feel dutybound to help protect other buyers who may be trying to work out if the seller is bona fide.. it is only through doing a search myself and seeing a thread on the Rolex forums that I avoided doing business directly with this seller and used the chrono24 protection. In truth if I had an option to buy from another seller I would have. That is the good thing about the internet, a search can turn up if a seller is unscrupulous.


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## Noob101 (Mar 24, 2017)

@Daveyboyz I am sorry about your experience, I think all of us watch fanatics have had various problems (some bad, some very bad) with poor sellers or poor repairs, etc (I have shared some of my own drama on this forum as it is a great outlet for that sort of thing).

I do like the fact you bothered to contact chrono24 because I think all too often we just give up and surrender to the idea of being wronged but don't do anything about it. Even if this is a token gesture on your part and you don't get any financial compensation I want you to know that at the very least you have helped me a bit because later this year I will be making a long awaited high value watch purchase and was actually targeting chrono24 as a possible source of the watch I want. I will not be a lot more careful than I otherwise would have been.

I know you absolutely loved the watch; would it not have been an option to return it for a refund and hope you can hunt down another one?


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Not really, if it was a more common model or less reasonably priced I would have. What looked like it was a fantastic deal turns out to be just a fair deal.

In fairness to Chrono24 don't hold this against them too much, they have many many good vendors on there and they offer some protection (I could have returned the watch) but the saying "buy the seller" is a good one. I saw the reviews of this seller weren't great and I still took a chance because it was the model I was after I have some contacts here and good advice... we cannot win everytime in such matters.


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## Noob101 (Mar 24, 2017)

By the way I forgot to add that I am Polish and sometimes visit Polish watch forums (much like this one) just to see any news on Polish made watches and other such things, although I only visit Poland maybe once a year so not there often to buy anything. There is actually a bit of feedback about the company you bought from on some forum threads and it doesn't look all that positive, so you're not the only one who has had a questionable experience.

I gather it is a company run in Warsaw by a Ukranian, which in Poland is considered a little fishy because A LOT of stuff in Poland coming from over the border from Ukraine is not exactly done "legit". Ukraine is to Poland basically sort of like Mexico is to the USA, i.e. mostly normal no problem neighbours but also a lot of fishy mafia related stuff going on, lots of smuggling, etc.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Maybe that explains how it was done so competitively... the name on the paperwork for the watch was in Cyrillic alphabet.


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## Noob101 (Mar 24, 2017)

Yes it probably came from the Ukraine so they were able to save themselves on import duty into the EU. That happens fairly regularly I should imagine.

I suppose this is probably true along every border that the EU has nowadays, like with Turkey or non-EU Balkan countries.


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

wrenny1969 said:


> Isn't this a private matter?


 I would agree with @Daveyboyz that other forum members should be warned although maybe the thread should be in `free talk'.



Daveyboyz said:


> it is only through doing a search myself and seeing a thread on the Rolex forums that I avoided doing business directly with this seller and used the chrono24 protection.


 Not your best post because it seems to suggest that you knew the seller was a bit dodgy and might have been better to avoid the transaction rather than involve chrono24.


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

I wasn't aware of the problems you seem to have had prior to purchasing the watch which I think would have raised more than enough red flags for me to back away. I wasn't however aware that chrono24 charged the buyer for using their checkout method that seems a bit harsh should that not be the seller as its him using the platform?

That being said, as someone else pointed out it appears you were aware of the sellers poor feedback and the fact they sent the item minus the tool for changing the date/moonphase, didnt put the address should have been enough. Added to that the watch arriving with the case in the condition you describe, an old strap that you say was falling apart and a movement that was not working. I think your only option here is to send it back for a refund.

I can completely understand your anger but I am not sure the letter is written in a positive way for you here. The way it is worded it suggests you are trying to get something back from chron24 or the seller where in reality all they could possibly suggest is return for a refund (are you not protected by chrono24 in this respect anyway?)

Interesting though I was just looking at chrono24uk at a Rolex cellini which was described as "mint" a few of the close up photos of the watch however showed up numerous scratches on the case back (granted sometimes a photo can make things look harsher than they are) they looked quite significant. I have also noticed several watches in the past before described as "mint" where the strap looks like someone had done a regular 10k jog while wearing it (That being something that's never really bothered me much as when I buy a watch unless its new the strap is the first thing in the bin)



Noob101 said:


> By the way I forgot to add that I am Polish and sometimes visit Polish watch forums (much like this one) just to see any news on Polish made watches and other such things, although I only visit Poland maybe once a year so not there often to buy anything. There is actually a bit of feedback about the company you bought from on some forum threads and it doesn't look all that positive, so you're not the only one who has had a questionable experience.
> 
> I gather it is a company run in Warsaw by a Ukranian, which in Poland is considered a little fishy because A LOT of stuff in Poland coming from over the border from Ukraine is not exactly done "legit". Ukraine is to Poland basically sort of like Mexico is to the USA, i.e. mostly normal no problem neighbours but also a lot of fishy mafia related stuff going on, lots of smuggling, etc.


 Useful to know, I have seen quite a few watches advertised in Poland well priced perhaps this explains why.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

I have explained that I would indeed have backed away if it had not been for the fact that I have been looking for this model for some time and this is only the second example I have seen in over a year.

The poor feedback was mainly in the category of communication and delivery, when it came to the actual watches the seller is getting a 4.5 out of 5 rating.

Chrono24 takes a commission if you buy through their platform, which seems only right and is not a huge amount like an auction house but a small percentage (1.5% if memory serves) for this they hold your payment until the sale has been completed before paying the vendor. This I thought offered adequate protection against non-delivery of the watch, and it did offer my protection in the form of being able to return the watch.

Return for refund is not all they could suggest and obviously I don't want to wait another six months or a year to find this same model again and pay £1000 more for it, the reason I bought the watch was because I wanted the watch. Morally speaking I feel that they should have taken seriously that the watch was misdescribed, they instead said "mint condition is a subjective description" and ignored that the watch was a different size... they could have investigated where he would send the watch and that the work would be done in full or with-hold the cost of a new strap from the payment (because he had not been paid) any number of solutions could have been offered.

Regardless when all is said and done I managed to get the watch that I wanted to get, not without a little hassle but long term I am sure that will be forgotten. This situation may offer some lessons for others and has put the platform to the test... it appears you are pretty safe buying from them but that their "trusted seller" status is not rigorously defined.


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## wrenny1969 (Jun 24, 2008)

Daveyboyz said:


> Not really, I feel dutybound to help protect other buyers who may be trying to work out if the seller is bona fide.. it is only through doing a search myself and seeing a thread on the Rolex forums that I avoided doing business directly with this seller and used the chrono24 protection. In truth if I had an option to buy from another seller I would have. That is the good thing about the internet, a search can turn up if a seller is unscrupulous.


 Morning, it is of interest and balanced if you post unredacted responses from Chrono24. The right to reply might apply here if Chrono24 feel your post unfair on them and on a public platform. Might have been better to have posted the outcome? I'm only really looking at this from the perspective of the forum.


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## greasemonk (Oct 4, 2012)

i believe the op was right to chronicle his negative experience here where an internet search would find it so others can read it and make judgement if they are thinking of making a purchase from the same seller through Chrono24.i recently started a thread regarding a very positive experience with a small prestige watchmaker.two days after starting the thread i received an email from the person i had dealt with at the company.it was to thank me for the positive feedback which their head of sales had seen on this forum and congratulated his staff on their good work..


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

wrenny1969 said:


> Morning, it is of interest and balanced if you post unredacted responses from Chrono24. The right to reply might apply here if Chrono24 feel your post unfair on them and on a public platform. Might have been better to have posted the outcome? I'm only really looking at this from the perspective of the forum.


 If you note in following posts I have also defended chrono24 and will let you know how they respond if anything further occurs. It is also a free world if anyone from chrono24 wishes to comment they may.


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## Noob101 (Mar 24, 2017)

ZenArcade said:


> Useful to know, I have seen quite a few watches advertised in Poland well priced perhaps this explains why.


 I just thought I would mention my comments in this thread did not mean to suggest that I think watches from Poland are more likely to be fake or that sellers from Poland are scammers. The price differential is often down to being able to smuggle in watches by skipping import taxes I believe (although of course we can't rule out forgery). Keep in mind anyone from Poland can just DRIVE without any border control into any other Schengen state or EU state really, so once you get it over the border into Poland it is so very easy to bring it anywhere within the EU. So although I think sellers in Poland might be particularly effected it doesn't mean this is not true of sellers from any country.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

It seems to me that no accusation of this is being made but that it is being suggested as a mere possiblity.

I am sure paying the correct taxation and import duty is high on most peoples priority list.


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## relaxer7 (Feb 18, 2016)

Bonus points for the use of 'slapdash'!

I think you've done the right thing mate - you've still got a decent bargain and now you'll have it in A1 condition. Just a pity about the pain in the @rse you've had getting there but hey ho, the joys of pre-owned watches eh?!


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

Daveyboyz said:


> they instead said "mint condition is a subjective description"


 :rofl: :bullshitter:

Tell that to any coin or stamp dealer and see if they share my reaction. "Mint condition" has a very discrete and significant definition in those realms.

BTW, I must've missed the point that the seller tried to complete the sale OFF their site? Did you find the sale listing ON their site? For some mediated sale sites, that's grounds for an account being terminated. Years ago, eBay discouraged people from entertaining these requests and you could report them IIRC. You might want to send copies of the seller's correspondence in this regards, if it does violate Chrono24's TOS.

Suggestion: remove the sentence "I wonder in fact..." as that only seems to be insulting Chrono24. Your letter is asking them to take some action (take away the seller's status, or something), don't spit in their eye at the same time.



wrenny1969 said:


> Isn't this a private matter?


 I think it has interest to the forum, and the public, since it dwells on how responsive Chrono24 will be to the complaint against the certification of the seller as "trusted."


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## Seikotherapy (Nov 29, 2016)

Is this even the model you have been holding out for though? In your complaint you mention it's the wrong size.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Seikotherapy said:


> Is this even the model you have been holding out for though? In your complaint you mention it's the wrong size.


 I had tried on both the 37mm and the more modern 39mm and was happy with either side, I knew though that this was the 37mm watch and asked the seller to confirm it and he said it was 39mm... at this point I knew he was wrong but it wasn't an issue. I simply find it unbelievable though that a seller when asked to double check cannot get such a simple thing correct.

@Chromejob When I was negotiating with the seller I asked how to proceed and they sent me an invoice for a bank transfer. I thought long and hard about it before deciding that it should be done through chrono24 to protect me. My sentence "I wonder what..." yes may be a little insulting but it is kind of like setting a challenge as if to say lets see what you are going to do... your point is taken though. I have yet to have an acknowledgement to the email BTW, and even if they disagree with what I have said I would expect to hear some response. I also agree mint condition is not subjective, it means as far as I can tell a condition with no noticeable imperfections.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Small follow up...

Chrono24 thinks all is well concerning my transaction because the dealer offered a refund and for return of watch to Poland (though he refused to replace the worn strap, send the watch to JLC for service or even name a repairer/reassure that a full service be done. I think he was looking just to do a part job of getting the watch functioning rather than a proper service) anyway this is enough to satisfy Chrono24 guidelines so no assistance was coming.

My review was acurrate and factually correct yet was declined. So I rewrote with a little less detail and though not declined it is not visible on the dealers feedback. We will wait and see if it appears.


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

Daveyboyz said:


> Small follow up...
> 
> Chrono24 thinks all is well concerning my transaction because the dealer offered a refund and for return of watch to Poland (though he refused to replace the worn strap, send the watch to JLC for service or even name a repairer/reassure that a full service be done. I think he was looking just to do a part job of getting the watch functioning rather than a proper service) anyway this is enough to satisfy Chrono24 guidelines so no assistance was coming.
> 
> My review was acurrate and factually correct yet was declined. So I rewrote with a little less detail and though not declined it is not visible on the dealers feedback. We will wait and see if it appears.


 I would agree with Chrono24's view. If the seller offered a refund then as far as they are concerned there is nothing really wrong as there is no need for him to agree to pay for repairs/replacements that you requested.

If the seller had only offered to have his guy do a service then that would be different.

The seller still sounds very dodgy and does not deserve to be listed as a `trusted seller' though.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

In my view they could have done more...

Firstly you would expect chrono24 to have some clout in such situations... if the watch had to go back and forth for repair in Poland this would cost the seller £80 before their watchmaker even touches the watch, I don't think it was unfair of me to ask for this as a contribution to the service I sent them a photo of the reciept for. They could have asked the seller for this, they could have also taken away the trusted seller status, not just in view of my experience but in others who have been similarly treated with rather lackluster service.

In fact Chrono24 could have taken a view that the transaction was unsatisfactory and refund me their commission if they really cared.


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

They may need multiple Davey's to give this seller bad marks before taking away trusted seller status. Think of it from their perspective, if a seller has a lot of successful transactions, then one really bunged up bad deal, do they flush the seller, or wait to see if it's a trend?

If you keep your review to facts ONLY, not judgemental, not hypothesizing, then it should be published. Keep it brief.

There's a guy on WUS who was unhappy with a Hirsch butterfly deployant. Got WatchObession to take it back and send him another. It operated the same way. This guy has posted half a dozen topics about it, unhappy with the clasp, unhappy with WatchObsession, asking openly if Gary sells "Chinese clones," warning others that they could get his "defective" clasp because it was supposedly working as intended, blah blah blah. His threads keep getting locked, he clearly has a vendetta. He's probably a couple of bad posts away from being banned there. I imagine all broker/mediators have to consider that a bad review is coming from someone like that, and wait to see if more bad reviews come in to corroborate each other about the seller. If I was a seller, I'd want that consideration (not that I'd call a chewed up watch with sweaty old band "mint").

Oh, I just remembered. They really should consider the listing of a "mint" watch deceptive if they received your pics of the actual item. But if the seller claimed "please review all pics carefully" as so many clever Fleabayers do, and you still bought it, they might be discounting that. To their detriment IMHO.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

I agree...but I am not the only one that has had issues.

For your reference my review was as follows... "

You would not recommend this dealer

*Your comment*:

Item was late because seller did not write full address. 
Item did not match the description (wrong size, poor condition, not functioning) 
Seller offered no flexibility, no offer to change the old damaged strap and showed no good will. 
I did not demand the watch be returned to the manufacturer to be serviced but some reasurance that the work would be done by a reputable watchmaker was too much to ask. Both the seller and chrono24 have lost a customer."


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

I can't see how Chrono24 have any liability at all. They are just a sales platform and have never seen the watch first hand. As always descriptions are subjective, one man's mint is another's not really mint.

As for the seller by offering a refund he has done everything he needs to do, that you refused said refund is hardly Chrono24's problem. If you were that unhappy you should just have returned it.

I can't really see where you can go with this now. The other minor problem is resale, given it's a reasonably rare watch if you try and punt it any time soon any prospective buyer will most likely do their due diligence and this thread will almost certainly pop up in any search engine.

Personally I'd have dealt with it behind closed doors rather than splash it all over the tinternet.

Makes an EasyJet flight to view, all be it a bit time consuming, look like a cheap option


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Daveyboyz said:


> In my view they could have done more...
> 
> Firstly you would expect chrono24 to have some clout in such situations... if the watch had to go back and forth for repair in Poland this would cost the seller £80 before their watchmaker even touches the watch, I don't think it was unfair of me to ask for this as a contribution to the service I sent them a photo of the reciept for. They could have asked the seller for this, they could have also taken away the trusted seller status, not just in view of my experience but in others who have been similarly treated with rather lackluster service.
> 
> In fact Chrono24 could have taken a view that the transaction was unsatisfactory and refund me their commission if they really cared.


 I have to be honest I am not sure what more you want chrono24 to do, the seller has offered a refund on return or to have it serviced in Poland. That you rejected the offer and decided to have it serviced yourself is your decision. I get it you dont want to wait for another model to turn up and the price to potentially increase but that is not really chrono24's problem. Likewise, I understand you don't want to pay JLC eye watering service costs but again, such is life buying a luxury watch. I am not sure if you bought a watch from a shop and found out it was faulty they would accept you having it serviced yourself and then asking them to pay half the service cost.

Regarding the strap, how many times I have seen forum sales with the words "Strap is a bit worn but plenty of life still in it" and think to myself "Seriously, who the hell wants some knackered old strap that looks like someone just run the London marathon while wearing?" But then there is the whole "The full set" Thing even though there are aftermarket straps for half the price and haven't been worn by someone in who knows what conditions.

So looking at it from Chrono24's position, seller has sold a watch he describes as "mint" a term that is completely subjective anyway (The only one that seems to have any value would be unworn) I have seen plenty on chrono24 that look anything but mint. Watch has arrived and is not as described (The mint bit is subjective but the fact its not functioning is another matter) The seller has been contacted and has offered a refund or to have it serviced by his watch repairer in Poland. Buyer has rejected both and wants to have it serviced himself (Not by JLC but by his watch repairer because its cheaper) and expects the seller to at the very least pay something towards it. Just as you don't trust the Polish guys watch guy why should he trust yours? From the point of chrono24 they have fulfilled their obligation the only way I could see them stepping in would be if the seller refused a refund or to rectify the problem pretty much like ebay or paypal.

As for the trusted seller bit, again the seller has fulfilled his side of the obligation so even if the buyer is not happy with what he has received from their point of view why would it be sufficient to remove him as a trusted seller.

I understand your frustration in all this but I also see things from both sides.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

You seem to be missing the point in much the same way as the seller and chrono24 did.

The seller did not say "I will give the watch a full service" when asked he would not tell me who he would send the watch to either. He told me he would "fix the problem" (and do nothing about the strap) this to me says 2 things...

Firstly it tells me he would not have the watch fully serviced and is not willing to stand behind his watch repairer. If I was the trader in the same spot I would happily tell the customer "I will send the watch to Russell Talerman for a full service"

Secondly you understand that if I sent it back to Poland it would cost £40 in each direction, why would the seller prefer to pay this money to the postal company than me and in addition save the cost of the watch repair? From the sellers perspective this is a win not a loss so it is terribly suspicious like he doesn't want another watchmaker to see what is inside.

Thirdly he can google my named watchmaker who has excellent reviews online, yet he won't even name his (and since he told me the watch had been fully checked over by his watchmaker. Given he managed to miss that the rotor was not rotating properly because it hasn't had a spot of oil on it since the day it was made so do you expect this unnamed watchmaker to do a thorough job?)

If a seller is mis-describing items, saying they are mint and a certain size and they turn out to be a different size, with frayed stitching and not mint this is not a trusted seller if they refuse to do anything about it other than offer a refund (not that it is the point but you do realise that the Euro went through the floor the week after I bought the watch and I would have taken a severe battering on a refund) If it said "Strap has seen some usage" that would be a different matter.

I will remind you that this wasn't some mickey mouse £300 purchase, this was £6500. Spending such money you expect a modicum of service. I have been on the other end of such situations as a seller and I have put my hand in my pocket to see the customer was satisfied. Are you telling me that this seller has left zero meat on the bone to even offer something towards the rectification of the problems? Are you telling me that Chrono24 don't do enough business that they can take a view once in a while?


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

Out of curiosity, is there a guide on C24 that helps define condition i.e. x, y & z mean mint, x & y means very good and so on?

That would help C24 in any dispute such as this, by ensuring a standard that had to be adhered to.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Not that I know of. I will note that it says about trusted sellers



they state the conditions of their goods truthfully and point out possibly existing defects or damages in writing and through images


and that they claim that "mint condition" is subjective kind of sums this up. I would claim "mint condition" is not subjective in the least... it means "free from defects" as far as I am concerned. If not free of defects then I believe they should be noted and a strap that is coming apart and nibbles out of the bezel should be noted since there is nothing subjective about these faults being apparent.


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

Daveyboyz said:


> If a seller is mis-describing items, saying they are mint and a certain size and they turn out to be a different size, with frayed stitching and not mint this is not a trusted seller if they refuse to do anything about it other than offer a refund


 The seller offered a full refund - that should be enough. The main issue here is that you wanted to keep the watch but have the seller contribute to putting it into `mint' condition. You have admitted that it was far cheaper than any other example of this watch and it was a bargain - even after paying for a full service yourself it still was considered very good value



Daveyboyz said:


> I will remind you that this wasn't some mickey mouse £300 purchase, this was £6500


 You could have got your £6500 back but preferred to keep the watch and spend some money on it - your choice so stop crying about it.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

If you don't want to participate in my "crying about it" I suggest you go do one, nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to read this thread.

Offering a full refund (well a refund that would probably be £500 short because of the fluctuation in the Euro) should not "be enough." I refer you to the answer above "A trusted dealer should describe condition truthfully..." and the fact that it is a difficult model to find at any price means a refund is no good to me and totally irrelevant to the mis-description of the item.

Again I say I am being quite reasonable, many buyers wouldn't suffer the condition, many buyers wouldn't suffer the damaged strap. I only wanted the watch serviced properly and the seller would not assure me that it would be done thoroughly or by a decent repairer. If he had said "I will send it to JLC" I would be fine with it, if he said send it to XYZ watch repairers who will do a full service again I would be fine with it providing reviews did not indicate XYZ was a butcher. "I will make it work" doesn't quite cut it when the watch clearly needs a full service.

Also I do not consider it crying to point out to the watch buying community here that following this bad experience it seems my negative review has not been published on chrono24. As a matter of ethics it would be quite wrong if they are editing by omission the reviews of their sellers and giving trusted seller status out to people who do not meet the criteria. I have written them a mail to point out as such.


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

Daveyboyz said:


> *Your comment*:
> 
> Item was late because seller did not write full address.
> Item did not match the description (wrong size, poor condition, not functioning)
> ...


 Yeah, your last paragraph is more of your rant, not facts. I know you want to vent, but you're shooting your own foot. I would be a bit skeptical of your review. Here's how I might write it.



> Item arrived late due to incomplete addressing. Described as "mint," but had visible marks on case and crown, leather strap had been worn and soiled. Watch had functional issues requiring repair. Attempts to negotiate manufacturer repair and/or price adjustment were refused, returned for full refund. Would not buy from this seller again.


 See what I did there? Short, sweet. Lays lots of blame for deception and uncooperative post-sales service on the seller. Nothing about me, all about him/them.

OH, wait, you're still not returning it?? :mad0218: Okay, I'm getting tired of this. You've already stated that you got this a great savings (even after paying to service), and you were skeptical of the buyer before the purchase due to factual errors in the listing (remember some of us suggesting you fly over and pick up in person so you could eyeball it? do you remember that?). You bought it anyway. You took your chances. I don't get it. You're so butthurt at the seller for this, or Chrono24 for that, but you're keeping it and assuming the responsibility. *Quit your blubbering* and fix/restore the damn watch. You're beginning to sound like a millenial poster child for first world problems. Some people in this world are having trouble feeding themselves or supporting their families, and you're boohooing about your damned £10,000 luxury watch that you got for £6500. And FYI you're not "informing" the watch buying community, you're acting like a spoiled brat in public. Huge difference.

Harsh words, I know. Bond seems to get away with it by adding a couple of these :laughing2dw: :laugh:


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## Thomasr (Oct 11, 2011)

I have a little expertise with Chrono24, I purchased my breguet on there for around 12k from a trusted seller listed in Edinburgh, a month later the box only came from Germany, the filling month the watch cane from Poland. The seller eventually refunded the £60 postage but it was rather worrying when it takes two months for a watch to come from Scotland.


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

@Daveyboyz & @Thomasr have quoted their own personal experiences...thank you, we should all take note!

@Chromejob have you had 'personal' experience of Chrono24 ?

Nice seeing that your maintaining your "Dubious Achievement Awards"


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Chromejob said:


> Yeah, your last paragraph is more of your rant, not facts. I know you want to vent, but you're shooting your own foot. I would be a bit skeptical of your review. Here's how I might write it.
> 
> See what I did there? Short, sweet. Lays lots of blame for deception and uncooperative post-sales service on the seller. Nothing about me, all about him/them.
> 
> ...


 Perhaps you aren't great at comprehension... so for your benefit I will take you through it AGAIN.

I did not demand the watch be returned to the manufacturer to be serviced but some reassurance that the work would be done by a reputable watchmaker was too much to ask. Both the seller and chrono24 have lost a customer.

This most certainly does constitute fact not opinion. I asked who would do the repair, no reputable watchmaker was named nor did they state it would get a full service. Both the seller and chrono24 have lost a customer, this is not opinion it is fact based on the principles of the matter. Maybe you don't know what principles are, they are the thing that I have and you don't. Such as respect for others, and standards.

Keep up, I obviously did not return the watch, I said as such because it would be foolish. Firstly why would I wait to find this model again, 1 year or 2 years or never? Why would I lose the difference in currency exchange and the Euro tanked just after my purchase? I stated quite clearly that I sent the watch for service with my watchmaker, it is not difficult to comprehend, nor is it difficult to work out that I was slightly aggreived that I will have to pay for this in full and no new strap is forthcoming. Am I butthurt? Clearly not, I am quite happy that I got the watch that I wanted and it will turn out to be simple a fair deal rather than one that is favourable to me.

Is it of concern to the watchbuying public, and of concern to anybody that wishes to buy from this dealer and chrono24? I think so and you can **** yourself if you disagree you are the one acting like the spoiled brat, if you don't like the thread simply move on. NOBODY CARES for your personal attacks, maybe in America people can't have a civil conversation when they disagree but people don't come here to have you sneer at them.

The fact that my review has not appeared on chrono24 yet not been declined is strange and like I say it would be most unethical lif they are filtering negative reviews and awarding trusted sellers to ones that are mis-representing their watches.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Johnny I have also bought from other platforms (antiquities related) where the platform has bend over backwards in negotiating good outcomes between the seller and buyer.

If the seller is making serious money from being part of chrono24 (which they are given the numbers of watches they are selling) then chrono24 are fully within their rights to take away trusted seller status and eject the seller from the site (the first I think would be fair the second overly harsh) regardless such pressure should see the seller trying to resolve the situation rather than the shrugging of shoulders "If you don't like it send it back" attitude which is less than helpful to anyone.

Regardless what has happened has happened, I am not bothered and I told chrono24 in our exchange if they weren't going to do anything then that's that but it will reflect badly on them. I am only back in contact with them because of the review not appearing.


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

Daveyboyz said:


> Johnny I have also bought from other platforms (antiquities related) where the platform has bend over backwards in negotiating good outcomes between the seller and buyer.
> 
> If the seller is making serious money from being part of chrono24 (which they are given the numbers of watches they are selling) then chrono24 are fully within their rights to take away trusted seller status and eject the seller from the site (the first I think would be fair the second overly harsh) regardless such pressure should see the seller trying to resolve the situation rather than the shrugging of shoulders "If you don't like it send it back" attitude which is less than helpful to anyone.
> 
> Regardless what has happened has happened, I am not bothered and I told chrono24 in our exchange if they weren't going to do anything then that's that but it will reflect badly on them. I am only back in contact with them because of the review not appearing.


 I have looked at some reviews on Chrono and there are negative ones - could your one just be too long? They may also be concerned about availability of proof for statements about the seller trying to do the deal outside of Chrono.

Taking away `trusted seller' status may not be justified by Chrono based on the positive v negative feedback for the seller - no reason why they should consider posts on forums though. They may also consider offering a refund to be in line with `trusted seller' status and even his offer to get it working if you returned it.

I have bought via Chrono and had no problems but would be happy with the facility to return a watch for a full refund (exchange rate fluctuations are just a risk - could go either way). I appreciate why you want to keep the watch but do not agree that Chrono should insist that the watch be serviced somewhere approved by you if you have the right to a refund.


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## Davey P (Sep 9, 2010)

Chromejob said:


> *Quit your blubbering* and fix/restore the damn watch. You're beginning to sound like a millenial poster child for first world problems. Some people in this world are having trouble feeding themselves or supporting their families, and you're boohooing about your damned £10,000 luxury watch that you got for £6500. And FYI you're not "informing" the watch buying community, you're acting like a spoiled brat in public. Huge difference.
> 
> Harsh words, I know. Bond seems to get away with it by adding a couple of these :laughing2dw: :laugh:


 This ^ is probably what everyone else is thinking........ :yes:


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

I have indeed resolved just to take the hit on it, and I am not going to resent this watch but given what you say regarding smelling a rat on the seller why would chrono24 give them trusted seller status?

It clearly says in the description of trusted sellers that they must truthfully describe their items or risk a suspension/removal of their trusted seller status. I made the decision to take the cost of servicing on the chin before this thread was created, it really was no longer about seeking anything for myself but about the way chrono24 and this seller are operating. Chrono24 should not hide reviews or be promoting bad sellers as good ones, so I remain interested to see whether they take my pursuit of the matter seriously.



richy176 said:


> I have looked at some reviews on Chrono and there are negative ones - could your one just be too long? They may also be concerned about availability of proof for statements about the seller trying to do the deal outside of Chrono.


 If they are concerned about proof about the seller trying to do the deal outside of their platform they only need to ask me for the WhatsApp log and the emailed invoice. They don't seem concerned with this at all (which is surprising since ebay are all over you like a rash if you suggest going outside of their platform)

This "*Quit your blubbering" *nonsense is likely only what idiots are thinking since there has been no blubbering at all in the discussion of the matter and you are free to not get involved. In fact it is very childish and spiteful behaviour to reflect ones own emotional fragility onto other people. Its a watch not life and death and if I really was upset I would have sent it back. This thread is a discussion (albeit a little on the deep side) about ethics and if you don't have ethics and only care about yourself maybe you perceive that as throwing a tantrum trying to gain personal benefit but for any adult they would see it as "He has got a point in principle whether he likes the watch or not" and some might be interested if Chrono24 are breaking their own stipulations and endorsing bad sellers as trusted.


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

I think all of us here understand that you are seeing this as being very personal but speaking for myself only I can only but read all of what you have written and see both sides here.

You say chrono24 should have done more, they dont have any obligation to do so anymore than ebay or paypal to twist the arms of sellers and force them into concessions imagine being on the other side of this and the sales platform contacting you and saying "Well the seller wants to keep the watch but wants you to pay something towards the costs so throw in a few quid or we will throw you off chrono24" Why would they essentially try and blackmail a seller because a buyer liked a watch, got it for a good price, says its defective but refuses to take up the offer of the buyer to ether get his money back or have it looked at by the seller in Poland? Chrono24 are there to protect buyer and seller if there is some kind of dispute (dont you have 14 days to return?) and that is what they have done to expect them to chip in on your side to force the seller to make some kind of financial offer sounds like you got a cheap watch you want to get a bit cheaper, keep in mind you are not buying from a mate on a forum you are buying from a stranger on the other side of the continent who is under no obligation to do you a favour.

I also look at both sides in relation to getting the watch serviced. You know and trust your guy in England why should he trust him? This is no criticism on the watch repairer at all and I am sure he does great work and has plenty of good reviews but again, look at both sides and unless its a certified JLC service centre why should he accept your offer? Likewise, the fact the Euro has gone down is not his problem or chrono24. I buy from Europe (Though I dont remember it going down so much someone could lose up to £500) and a fluctuating currency is just one of those things you have to take. When I bought my Dornbluth I paid a deposit in Euros then waited for it to be made which took several months, I knew full well that the Euro could go up or down but that was just something I would have to take.

There is the old saying you get what you pay for and as you said, you got this for 1500 pounds less than they are normally for sale. Well the reason for that is now becoming obvious because it would potentially cost another 1500 pounds to put it into the same condition as those 8 - 10k watches. The fact that the watch is £6500 should really make no difference in how the deal is conducted or how the buyer and seller are treated there are watches on there for over 200k it would be wrong of chrono24 to treat customers different based on how much they paid for something.

As someone else said it was suggested at the time of buying (It may have even been me because thats what I would do) Go over to Poland to look for yourself. For the price of a £40 flight on easyjet and a decent hotel you could have had a night in Poland, inspected the watch and negated all these problems. If I am honest I can see why chrono24 would not publish your review as they have done what they are supposed to as have the seller and there are parts of it that just read like a personal attack on both.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Sorry but you are clutching at straws.

I learned my lesson the hard way in court, not £6.5K but a sizable chunk of my hard earned.

I took a company to court over perceived poor service, after lots of backwards and forwards it eventually ended up in front of a Judge.

There was a ton of paperwork but within about 30 seconds of hearing both sides yada yada submissions he pulled an A4 sheet of paper out with their T&C's and asked me to confirm that the signature at the bottom of the page was mine.

Game over in less than a minute.

In his summing up he said that the sellers obligations had be met and whilst I might have or might not have received good service that was an entirely different issue all together.

An expensive lesson.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

The only positive I see in this post is that it highlights the potential risks in buying something unseen. It could have been a lot worse. Perhaps being thankful, albeit with some faults, that you got the watch, and although, in principle, the deal was not as you would have liked it, enjoy what you've got and move on.


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

Thomasr said:


> I have a little expertise with Chrono24, I purchased my breguet on there for around 12k from a trusted seller listed in Edinburgh, a month later the box only came from Germany, the filling month the watch cane from Poland. The seller eventually refunded the £60 postage but it was rather worrying when it takes two months for a watch to come from Scotland.


 And was that a "trusted seller?" Maybe this "trusted" label is a tag any seller can get for two quid, in which case OP is fighting an unwinnable battle.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> actually﻿﻿ serve to﻿ pro﻿mote ﻿Chro﻿no﻿24﻿


 And easy jet. (Other airlines are available)


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

As far as Chrono24 may be concerned, it was a successful sale, regardless of details. They should publish a fact-based review (without statements of what the seller "should've done") based on the sale. Anything more is tilting at windmills.

If the watch had been returned as unacceptable (per the description and terms of the sale), THEN there'd be more reason to question the seller's status, and Chrono24 could be more inclined to listen. They're not in business to host failed sales, correct? But if the sale is done, they've got their cut, end of story.

I don't think anyone's innocent in this transaction. Without even looking at page one, I recall OP claiming that this seemed an unrealistic bargain and acknowledged the risk (hence some of us urged him to complete in person). All of this IMHO is just the dividends of _buyer's remorse _that the watch came with _more problems _than was hoped for. Oh well, the adage "if it seems too good to be true, it is" applies. OP wants to get a little back on the seller and the hosting site, I don't think that's _ethics _at work, but _vendetta_.

I wonder if OP is going to fully enjoy the watch now, it's got so much drama around it. Unless all this strife with the seller and the sales site adds sweetness to the pride of ownership.... :hmmm9uh:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

WRENCH said:


> And easy jet. (Other airlines are available)


 Possibly EasyJet are cheap.

:laugh: :laugh:


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

This is getting tiresome.

No it is not personal at all, it is a business transaction devoid of emotion. Nowhere do I say what the seller "should have done" I said to chrono24 what I suggested they do, I suggested the same to them. Read the review again if you have difficulty comprehending it doesn't contain the word "should" even once. The watch has zero drama surrounding it, unlike this thread were people seem to read in things which are not there.

Chrono24 are there to protect the buyer and the seller, here they did nothing to protect the buyer. They did nothing full stop. I don't expect them to "Black mail the seller into making concessions" I expect them to hold the seller accountable for mis-description after failing to negotiate an acceptable compromise given the seller would not give assurance that the watch would get serviced by any named watchmaker. (How many times do I have to repeat this? Is it difficult to comprehend that the watch needed servicing?)

If I had visited Poland I would be in exactly the same position given that I cannot see into the future. I would have accepted the condition was not as good as advertised, that the size of the watch was not what the seller said it was and that the strap was old... I would have returned with the watch on my wrist and then found days later that it was stopping over night and needed a service and the seller still wouldn't be assuring me that the watch would receive a full service from a qualified watchmaker.

The price of the watch is not the issue, it has nothing to do with anything. If it was £10,000 or £5,000 this transaction still would have been a comedy of errors on the part of the seller, and chrono24 still wouldn't have raised a finger or intervened in any form. The seller said it was against chrono24's regulations for me to get the watch repaired and when I spoke to chrono24 on the phone they said that they have zero problem with this and understood it sounds like an exceptable course of action for me to take care of the service and the seller contribute the amount that he would be out of pocket in postage for sending it back and forth (does this really sound such an unreasonable demand? That I subsidize the repair cost?) It should not be the case that the entire sale needs to be lost over a minor detail especially when the Italy crisis would see that the buyer loses significant money and the seller loses postage costs and chrono24 loses their commission all for absolutely no rational reason.

As I repeatedly state I have been on the other side of the counter, and when a customer comes and screams and shouts often there is no satisfying them, but if they come with valid complaint and offer a reasonable compromise only a very foolish retailer greets them with all the flexibility of a brick wall. There was no talking to this seller, and hence there are other threads like this on the Rolex forum concerning the seller should not have trusted status. (Missing Panerai)

Now the question is where Chrono24 stand on this and whether they publish my feedback. I will be on the phone to them Monday morning


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## Thomasr (Oct 11, 2011)

Chromejob said:


> And was that a "trusted seller?" Maybe this "trusted" label is a tag any seller can get for two quid, in which case OP is fighting an unwinnable battle.


 Yep trusted seller and my watch was one of the cheapest they had listed


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## Cassie-O (Apr 25, 2017)

Daveyboyz said:


> I will remind you that this wasn't some mickey mouse £300 purchase, this was £6500.


 IMHO, it doesn't matter what price it is, if something - not just a watch - isn't sold as in the description, or in the slightest bit if the buyer isn't happy of course you have the right to complain, I certainly would.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

themysterybidder said:


> IMHO, it doesn't matter what price it is, if something - not just a watch - isn't sold as in the description, or in the slightest bit if the buyer isn't happy of course you have the right to complain, I certainly would.


 Not sure what your point is.

He did complain and was rightly as per the T&C's for a seller offered a refund.

Maybe you missed that bit ???


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

themysterybidder said:


> IMHO, it doesn't matter what price it is, if something - not just a watch - isn't sold as in the description, or in the slightest bit if the buyer isn't happy of course you have the right to complain, I certainly would.


 I 100% agree, though the point I make is with a purchase of an item of a significant value you expect a little bit more in terms of service, not a "like it or lump it" attitude.


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## Caller. (Dec 8, 2013)

My only experience with C24 was when I was trying to source my Omega '1957' SE. I sent messages to 2/3 sellers and never received a reply. I subsequently got a message from C24 asking how things went. One option was to tick 'seller never replied' or words to that effect, which I did and I never heard from C24 again. I wasn't over impressed with that.


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## Cassie-O (Apr 25, 2017)

BondandBigM said:


> Not sure what your point is.
> 
> He did complain and was rightly as per the T&C's for a seller offered a refund.
> 
> Maybe you missed that bit ???


 IMO it's a bit odd that the seller won't disclose who they would send the watch to for service. I would be loathe to send back a watch I had waited for so long to obtain one and when you don't know who will be working on it. But possibly if you're not happy a refund is the only option in this case I'm sorry to say.  But @Daveyboyz I can understand why you are so annoyed, I would be too. I truly hope the outcome is a good one, and works for yourself and the seller. :thumbsup:


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Daveyboyz said:


> I expect them to hold the seller accountable for mis-description after failing to negotiate an acceptabl﻿e compromise


 Acceptable for who, you or the seller? He has offered you your money back he has adhered to the T&C of chrono24 has he not (You have 14 days to return the item)



Daveyboyz said:


> I don't expect them to "Black mail the seller into making concessions"


 Seems like thats exactly what you want them to do.



themysterybidder said:


> IMO it's a bit odd that the seller won't disclose who they would send the watch to for service. I would be loathe to send back a watch I had waited for so long to obtain one and when you don't know who will be working on it. But possibly if you're not happy a refund is the only option in this case I'm sorry to say.  But @Daveyboyz I can understand why you are so annoyed, I would be too. I truly hope the outcome is a good one, and works for yourself and the seller. :thumbsup:


 He probably wont disclose because 1. He doesnt really have to and 2. Its probably done by his mate in his garden shed (if at all) There is a reason why a watch with a clean service history will be more expensive than one that doesnt have one.

One thing I always do when I buy any watch 1. Never assume service history unless its clearly documented by the seller assume it needs a service 2. Get service done sooner rather than later you may well be lining yourself up for a hiding in the near future if you dont.

A full service from JLC may cost up to £1500 but for that you will have peace of mind, a watch back up to tip top condition and one that will sell no problem for 8k


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## Cassie-O (Apr 25, 2017)

@ZenArcade Good point.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Salient points

Bought a watch

Arrived not as described

Contacted seller

Resolution reached after discussion by way of a refund from seller.

Hard to believe its got to three pages of ifs, buts and maybes

But such is the unreal world of the tinternet

:laugh: :laugh:


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Its possibly wise not to "never visit C24 again" .... My latest splendid timepiece was bought on the Bay, but the same seller had the same watch listed on C24, and that was where I originally found it. I did some research on the seller, found out he was an eBay seller and went that route by preference.


 I said they have lost a customer, not that I wouldn't use the app to source a watch (and then visit the bricks and mortar store to purchase)



ZenArcade said:


> Acceptable for who, you or the seller? He has offered you your money back he has adhered to the T&C of chrono24 has he not (You have 14 days to return the item)
> 
> Seems like thats exactly what you want them to do.
> 
> ...


 Yes obviously acceptable to me, the buyer, the one that is supposed to be protected by the year guarantee the watch came with. That doesn't mean simply refund it means put it right. Not exchanging the strap and not servicing a watch that needs a full service is hardly guaranteeing the product is it?

Are you really so stupid that you cannot understand I didn't want to return the watch, I wanted it as described? He has not adhered to the T&C of chrono24, the part where it says trusted sellers describe the condition of items accurately.

I don't assume a watch has been serviced, I assume it is functioning correctly. Whether he has to divulge his watchmaker or not is not the point, if he cannot communicate with me like a reasonable human being, cannot measure a watch correctly, cannot be honest in describing its condition then why would I be confident that he wouldn't be completely incompetent at putting it right?

A full service for half that price will give me peace of mind also and give a watch in tip top condition (not mentioning the strap)

I think you should stop replying here Zen, because you are clearly very stupid if you think expecting a watch to be what it is described as is "blackmailing for concessions" or that it is unreasonable to expect a watch to work or that it is a concession for me to put my hand into my pocket and subsidize something that is the responsibility of the seller. You keep trotting out the same bull over and over, I couldn't give a flying f what you think. I am not asking your ill informed opinion on this or any other matter. This thread simply documents what is going on, is not asking for your input and I don't have to justify myself to you.


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## ZenArcade (Aug 17, 2016)

Well done Dave, personal insults to someone who actually sympathised with your plight. You do understand you posted your issue on an open forum where anyone is free to comment dont you?

So I am stupid? Well im not the one who went on chrono24 saw a buyer he thought was dodgy, wanted him to pay outside of chrono24 ignored the advice of people on the forum and paid six and a half grand for a watch. Watch arrived with marks on the case that looked like someone had been gnawing on it but still kept it because it was cheap and thought he could flog it in the near future at a tidy profit. Found out a few days later the movement was knackered then went on the internet to tell everyone. Didnt like some of the responses he received so started to throw insults at those he didnt like. Wants chrono24 to intervene on his behalf because well "He says so" in spite of them being under no obligation to do so.

Glad I am not in your mensa group.

But thats fine, have a go at me if it makes you feel better.


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

themysterybidder said:


> IMHO, it doesn't matter what price it is, if something - not just a watch - isn't sold as in the description, or in the slightest bit if the buyer isn't happy of course you have the right to complain, I certainly would.


 Fair point, m'lady.



Daveyboyz said:


> I 100% agree, though the point I make is with a purchase of an item of a significant value you expect a little bit more in terms of service, not a "like it or lump it" attitude.


 But this is an online site, presumably with no brick 'n mortar spot where you can pop in for a respectful chat with a manager about this affair. (Am I wrong?) I place little faith in online sites until I've seen corroboration of their integrity.



Caller. said:


> My only experience with C24 was when I was trying to source my Omega '1957' SE. I sent messages to 2/3 sellers and never received a reply. I subsequently got a message from C24 asking how things went. One option was to tick 'seller never replied' or words to that effect, which I did *and I never heard from C24 again*. I wasn't over impressed with that.


 QED. ^ :yes: (emphasis added)



Daveyboyz said:


> I agree...but I am not the only one that has had issues.
> 
> For your reference my review was as follows... "
> 
> ...


 Yes, I read your review. I guess that someone at Chrono24 has, too, right down to (and here I am quoting), "... Both the seller and chrono24 have lost a customer." :thumbsup: My suggestion was to drop that last paragraph, for me it's the kind of statement that lets someone *de-*prioritize the customer's issue. "You're kicking us to the curb anyway? B'bye, have a better one."

Now I know you're thinking, "But I spent well into four figures on this sale, that should count for something...." Yes, I agree, for an established B&M store with a reputation to maintain; make an appt for a 15 minute visit, drop in, have a chat. Whether it was six hundred or six thousand pounds, I'd want them to treat me like they want to keep me, but I've been routinely and regularly disappointed by online merchants.

You're getting frustrated, I can tell. I'm sorry. I wonder if you presume we're going to rally to your side, back you up. We're not, we're all thinking from different angles, some experienced, some novice, some serious, some pejorative  , some of us as experienced sellers,.... It's a discussion forum, and sometimes others' views will challenge your perspective, maybe change it. I'm on that train for something myself....



Daveyboyz said:


> This is getting tiresome.


 A-ha! :yes: See, we can find something to agree on. Next pint's on me (meaning you'll probably pour it on me). :drinks:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

:laugh: :laugh:


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

I don't expect everyone to rally my side, but the repetition over and over again of points which have already been addressed is irksome at best.

Yes I realise several of you would have returned the watch I get that, no need to keep telling me. Yes I realise that some of you think trusted sellers could put a dog turd for sale described as a Rolex and think that as long as they agree to a refund this is good business practice... great no need to keep telling me that. Yes I realise some of you can read minds and tell me that I think things which I don't know about but leave that to the stage show.

That was the review that was not declined, yet doesn't appear. It should be one or the other regardless of the content, either it is declined like my first attempt or it is not and should be visible.


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

Daveyboyz said:


> ... Yes I realise that some of you think trusted sellers could put a dog turd for sale described as a Rolex and think that as long as they agree to a refund this is good business practice...





JonnyOldBoy said:


> That was a quality comment....


 Funny you should say that. Rambling through old threads, I nearly stepped on... (Spoiler alert: Rolex content)

http://xflive.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?/topic/78660-i-dont-give-a-s/&do=embed


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Chromejob said:


> Funny you should say that. Rambling through old threads, I nearly stepped on... (Spoiler alert: Rolex content)
> 
> http://xflive.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?/topic/78660-i-dont-give-a-s/&do=embed


 Were there not recent posts complaining about the lack of quality posts from the good old days? Looks like like the same old ***t to me, although this is only the second time I've witnessed a "floater" on a watch forum. Tasteful. :laughing2dw:


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

The feedback has been published now and the sellers response is both libelous and containing a few fibs. This is salt in the wound.

Naturally I have been on the phone to Chrono24 who said they will investigate.


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

Daveyboyz said:


> The feedback has been published now and the sellers response is both libelous and containing a few fibs. This is salt in the wound.


 Par for the course in my experience. Sellers try to salvage their reputation even if it means being snotty. I like to think it reflects back on them more than the buyer. If your review was fact-based and non judgemental, then a snotty retort looks that much worse.



Daveyboyz said:


> Naturally I have been on the phone to Chrono24 who said they will investigate.


 But of course.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

It was far more than snotty... after the phone call it seems to have been amended to remove the accusation of blackmailing.

*Dealer's comment:*

False. Not true,abusive hate speech wrote in revenge on complete fail of buyers blackmailing attempts. That kind of histerious individuals must be locked out far away. Not to mention to function in civilised society. If you naive, playing stupid, ignorant and arrogant don't use Chrono24. Trusted Checkout rules are OBLIGATORY for both parts: seller and buyer. If you not read it doesn't mean it wouldn't work with all consequences. - the address was exactly what you put in the system. Make you complains to heaven. - buyer got big discount on whole deal. Continue to agressive demanding new strap. Why? All as in announce real pictures of strap you click, accept buy. Even offer you a 50%! discount on additional strap as separate transaction... - case in mint condition - buyers refused of total cooperation with seller, even chrono24 Checkout team was shocked. In the end this hate "brave" racist abuser from internet just disappeared...

Firstly the address in the system includes my house number (previous delivery sufferred no such problem...seller also took my addres by means of Whatsapp which included my house number... even if the address in the system did not include a house number would a sensible person not check given most roads have more than one house and therefore need a number or house name?)

A big discount on the whole deal = £100 off. Woopee-doo and not relevant to the **** ups anyway.

Demanding new strap why? Because the strap is not mint as described... and a couple of out of focus pictures not showing the damage do not cut it.

No 50% discount on strap was ever offerred.

Case was not in mint condition as the photo's I took clearly show.

Racist? WTF is this comment about given we are both the same race and race did not come into the equation.


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

I'm firmly with you on this one, Davey :thumbsup:

I refuse to concede to charlatans, imposters & am always prepared to go the distance in getting justice!

Folk only p!ss on my boots once...also have a very good memory.

 :yes:


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

Daveyboyz said:


> Demanding new strap why? Because the strap is not mint as described... and a couple of out of focus pictures not showing the damage do not cut it.


 Hope you get some action from Chrono although I would not hold your breath. The transaction certainly acts as a reminder about buying the seller and requesting and receiving good quality photos to support any description. At that price I would also want details of the latest service.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Karrusel said:


> I refuse to concede to charlatans, imposters & am always prepared to go the distance in getting justice!


 Possibly but I can't help thinking you would of had your personal shopper do a bit more in the way of due diligence before the purchase of such an item so as to avoid any of the ongoing issues that our Davy Boy is experiencing.

:laugh: :laugh:


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## Karrusel (Aug 13, 2016)

BondandBigM said:


> Possibly but I can't help thinking you would of had your personal shopper do a bit more in the way of due diligence before the purchase of such an item so as to avoid any of the ongoing issues that our Davy Boy is experiencing.
> 
> :laugh: :laugh:





BondandBigM said:


> Maybe I should have used Google instead of my failing memory.
> 
> :biggrin:


 Remember the dodgy French watchmaker, the one who took his donkey to the boozer ?

Even the most diligent can be duped at times, even Audi driver's with dodgy backs, Sultan! :yes:

:laugh: :laugh:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Karrusel said:


> even Audi driver's with dodgy backs, Sultan! :yes:
> 
> :laugh: :laugh:


 Big M likes it, she also paid so as always I'll just suffer in silence

:biggrin:

And yes I do remember the French bloke that took his nags to the Boozer with him.

:laugh: :laugh:


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Chrono24 have issued an apology and asked the dealer to make a more appropriate response...

They have yet to address some other points I put to them but there is more than one thread of communication so hopefully they will respond to my wueries concerning trusted seller status.


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

Daveyboyz said:


> *Dealer's comment:*
> 
> False. Not true,abusive hate speech wrote in revenge on complete fail of buyers blackmailing attempts. That kind of histerious individuals must be locked out far away. Not to mention to function in civilised society. If you naive, playing stupid, ignorant and arrogant don't use Chrono24. Trusted Checkout rules are OBLIGATORY for both parts: seller and buyer. If you not read it doesn't mean it wouldn't work with all consequences. - the address was exactly what you put in the system. Make you complains to heaven. - buyer got big discount on whole deal. Continue to agressive demanding new strap. Why? All as in announce real pictures of strap you click, accept buy. Even offer you a 50%! discount on additional strap as separate transaction... - case in mint condition - buyers refused of total cooperation with seller, even chrono24 Checkout team was shocked. In the end this hate "brave" racist abuser from internet just disappeared...


 Wow. :jawdrop1: Only things he left out were sexual predation, child porno, slapping around old grandmas for their retirement checks, stealing towels from hotels. Bet the Chrono24 staff had a good :rofl: over that comment. Hopefully you're getting some traction from the staff....

I would hope after that they're giving due consideration to your claim that "trusted seller" status is misplaced here despite any prior transaction feedback.







I still think you failed the "buy the seller" step of an overseas, high price transaction, but you knew you slipping into a hot kettle going in, so.... Strap in, enjoy the ride as best you can.

And I hope you can see the humor in all this.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

Chromejob said:


> I still think you failed the "buy the seller" step of an overseas, high price transaction, but you knew you slipping into a hot kettle going in, so.... Strap in, enjoy the ride as best you can.


 I agree with you and I said the same myself. My view was that if it is terribly bad I can get a refund as guaranteed by Chrono24... the price left enough wriggle room that despite the nightmare of an extremely expensive service the watch still works out par for the course and as I have mentioned many times this watch was rare and hard to find matching the spec I wanted (silver dial, moonphase, exhibition back, English calendar and white gold) if it wasn't exactly what I was after I would have passed and waited for a better seller.

I have insurance claim going in at the moment for someone who hit my car and sped off in a car park (a good Samaritan left their number plate for me) and can't see any humour in dealing with that, but this watch thing I am really emotionally disconnected on but I just feel things weren't handled correctly and I have valid cause for complaint whether I get anything out of it or am just wasting my time (as I probably am)


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> because﻿﻿ I have the sort of personality that given a bit more dosh and spare time could drive me into this﻿ very situation


 I know I have missed out on some good deals by being over cautious. I also know that I have avoided being ripped off by being over cautious. You take your chance, and live with it. :yes:


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

Daveyboyz said:


> ... I have insurance claim going in at the moment for someone who hit my car and sped off in a car park (a good Samaritan left their number plate for me) and can't see any humour in dealing with that, but this watch thing I am really emotionally disconnected on but I just feel things weren't handled correctly and I have valid cause for complaint whether I get anything out of it or am just wasting my time (as I probably am)


 Ew, that sucks, chum. The universe is testing you, surely. Hang in there, stay true to your ideals.


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## Shakeman (Sep 23, 2018)

A quick review on Wonderinvest from my recent experience.

We agreed on a deal for a Lange watch. Instead of shipping the watch to me and dealing with shipment issues + customs issues + trust factor, I decided to travel to Poland and pick up the watch in person. Made flight and hotel reservations while trying incessantly to contact the guy. He kept refusing my calls while reading my messages. Then he responds saying he sold the watch elsewhere.

Also, he wanted to pass on the Chrono24 Trusted Checkout fees of 3% completely on me as buyer whereas Chrono24 clearly spells out that these fees are the responsibility of the seller.

The only thing worst than dealing with trust issues in an international transaction is an unreliable and flaky seller.

Avoid unless you're in Poland and picking up the watch in person. Even then, be cautious.


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

He shouldn't be a trusted seller and it reflects badly on chrono24 that they endorse such a person without any interest in their customers.


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## Chromejob (Jul 28, 2006)

I suspect that this seller did NOT want to meet in person. So any deal to purchase in person will snuff out.

Hope you were able to cancel your reservations. And made a strong feedback case to Chrono24 about this maroon.


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## IBM (Sep 25, 2018)

Interesting thread. 1 thing we can all surely agree on (honestly, it is possible to all agree!) is that this Polish seller is dodgy, and buyer be VERY beware. Thanks for bringing this guy to my attention.

Davey, I am gagging to know which model this watch was.....


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

It was a white gold JLC master triple date moonphase with English calender wheels and silver dial, officer back. (140.3.98)


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## IBM (Sep 25, 2018)

Funnily enough that's the watch which is next on my 'to buy' list!! Was thinking the 39mm but unless you have very small wrists that 37mm looks an ample size.

Excellent choice mate


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

I have a 7 and a quarter inch wrist. I have tried the 39mm too and even next to each other don't look too different. The 39mm I tried had a standard display back rather than an officers style hinged back thus was lighter and slightly slimmer. Its personal preference I think.

I am quite happy with the size with this style of watch it seems perfect.


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## IBM (Sep 25, 2018)

Ok thanks. Good to know, my wrist basically the same size. I am also considering the rose gold model, with dark brown strap.


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