# Broadband Stalemate



## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

My speed is slower than dial-up of a decade ago. First my ISP blamed it on WorldCup/Wimbledon streaming and I do know there were BT issues at that time but now it's grinding to a halt. I've changed the lead from the BT socket to filter, changed the filter and 2 leads to PC, yesterday I installed a new router, no change. 

The ISP blame it on BT, BT say the line is 100%. and they'll charge me Â£150 if they come out and it is found to be 100%.

Any ideas before I tell the both where to go and change to a cable provider?


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## Retronaut (Jun 14, 2010)

MarkF said:


> My speed is slower than dial-up of a decade ago. First my ISP blamed it on WorldCup/Wimbledon streaming and I do know there were BT issues at that time but now it's grinding to a halt. I've changed the lead from the BT socket to filter, changed the filter and 2 leads to PC, yesterday I installed a new router, no change.
> 
> The ISP blame it on BT, BT say the line is 100%. and they'll charge me Â£150 if they come out and it is found to be 100%.
> 
> Any ideas before I tell the both where to go and change to a cable provider?


So many variables can contribute here - if you have the cable option then take it.

Cable tends to offer much higher max speeds so even if underperformimg will likely spank your current broadband speeds. My experience of BT + ISP is same as yours - they always point the finger at each other. Remember if you move to cable you will have a single provider to call if it breaks!! :thumbsup:

:cheers:


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Retronaut said:


> So many variables can contribute here - if you have the cable option then take it.
> 
> Cable tends to offer much higher max speeds so even if underperformimg will likely spank your current broadband speeds. My experience of BT + ISP is same as yours - they always point the finger at each other. Remember if you move to cable you will have a single provider to call if it breaks!! :thumbsup:
> 
> :cheers:


You are probably right, however, I loathe dealing with large corporations, at least with a small ISP I have the comfort of being able to shout at the same person. I don't want to move but it looks like I'll have to.


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

The only thing you haven't changed at your end is the master socket - which can degrade your speeds dramatically.

Have you tried plugging your (new) router directly into this socket (no other extensions)?

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm

People have reported success when plugging in directly, or by using a filtered socket.

Have you done a BT speedtest on your line? This should tell you what your phone line is capable of.

http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=25795&s_cid=con_FURL_broadband/faster

Have you tried just reporting a fault on your BT line - just tell the operator there's been a recent increase on the noise on the line, crackles etc. When they tell you there's no problem, just tell them to escalate the report.

Technically, you will get a far better speed if you're in a cabled area - but be warned, cable company's customer service is notorious... you think BT is bad!

Have you considered getting an alternative supplier if your exchange is unbundled, ie BT competitors have installed their own equipment in the exchange.

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search

Look for the LLU operators.

You might just find that your exchange is just reaching capacity.

My node is Milton Keynes and it is currently showing as at 93% capacity, in the red, thus my ISP will have implemented a flow control, reducing line speeds.


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## Retronaut (Jun 14, 2010)

MarkF said:


> Retronaut said:
> 
> 
> > So many variables can contribute here - if you have the cable option then take it.
> ...


Problem with small ISPs is that they are all sub letting Broadband from BT wholesale!! btw - getting BT broadband is no better, due to Ofcom rules they are separate from the wholesale division too!! Whichever way you look at it anything with a BT line will be a two tier job.

Good luck whichever way you go!


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Go cable...... :thumbsup:


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Thank you for all the replies, most helpful.



jasonm said:


> Go cable...... :thumbsup:


:schmoll: Nope, I can't do it, the speed appeals but just the thought of having to deal with Sky/Orange/Virgin upsets my yin yang levels. I've asked a BT engineer out.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

MarkF said:


> I've asked a BT engineer out.


A small intimate resturant, soft music, candelight...

Seriously I'm on NTL (virgin) and it's spot on, the 710 works from home all via BB and it doesn't miss a beat. Just pray it never goes wrong and you don't have to ring them and you'll be fine!


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

Yeah...cable is the way to go....and no stupid dish on the side of your house!


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## Agent orange (Feb 11, 2006)

20 mb/s cable with blueyonder (previously Telewest) for me and here's my speed test results.



Can't beat cable imho, had it for years now with only a couple of minor and easily solved issues.

Put aside your prejudices and go for it.

Cheers,

Gary


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

MarkF said:


> Thank you for all the replies, most helpful.
> 
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It's the only way to go even if it does upset your yin yang :lol: :lol:


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

The ying you get from cable is more than enough to compensate for the loss of ying on set up.......


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## Goodison (Sep 30, 2009)

MarkF said:


> My speed is slower than dial-up of a decade ago. First my ISP blamed it on WorldCup/Wimbledon streaming and I do know there were BT issues at that time but now it's grinding to a halt. I've changed the lead from the BT socket to filter, changed the filter and 2 leads to PC, yesterday I installed a new router, no change.
> 
> The ISP blame it on BT, BT say the line is 100%. and they'll charge me Â£150 if they come out and it is found to be 100%.
> 
> Any ideas before I tell the both where to go and change to a cable provider?


If you have what they call an nte5 as a main socket carefully remove the bottem faceplate, i say carefully because your extention's should be connected to this part of your socket.Removing this faceplate split's your extention's from the BT network,(everybody should do this before reporting a fault to BT).

You should see a port to which the face plate plugged into, plug your equipment into this port and give it a try.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Ok, this is where I am today. 

My problems started during the WC, I was told that many people (with BT) experienced slow speeds due to streaming, I accepted this but the speed got *progressively* worse, day by day, till it is now unuseable.

Bt checked my line and I have 8GB from a BT line. The ISP have remote access to my router and say it functiong 100% as it should be. My speed is so slow that I can only access the net when demand is low, prior to 8am, I have to load Gmail via HTML and cannot load any pages after lunch...............it's that slow. So slow, that I can't even do a BT speedtest.

1. Changed my extension lead from BT socket, twice an used test socket as well.

2. Changed ethernet lead, phone lead, and filter.

3. Changed router for a new one.

No difference.

4. Brought in my work laptop, plugged into router and same problem, minimal speed.

5. Used neighbours laptop, changed router, same problem.

Both BT and the ISP can offer no more help and I am going to have to do something I don't want to do, go cable. Anybody with a bright idea?


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Should have said, my PC has AVG, and Spyware running (Ccleaner used too) it's as clean as a whistle and every application is fast, the only issue is browsing speed, or rather, lack of.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2010)

The problem is your ISP having a major fault, but either lying about it or being unaware of it.

If the symptoms you described were arising due to water ingress or some other line fault, then BT would have discovered this (easily).

Your ISP is your problem. ...Oh, and you should have asked them if they would cover the cost of the BT engineer if it turns out that your line was not at fault. ...Why the hell should you have to pay for the privilege of chasing round in circles? Answer: There is no good reason why you should.


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## Goodison (Sep 30, 2009)

MarkF said:


> Ok, this is where I am today.
> 
> My problems started during the WC, I was told that many people (with BT) experienced slow speeds due to streaming, I accepted this but the speed got *progressively* worse, day by day, till it is now unuseable.
> 
> ...


Mark you need a BT Broadband Engineer. I maybe wrong but i would imagine he will check what GB is leaving the exchange most likely on the frame , If it's a fault at this point he should bill your ISP .If the correct GB is leaving the Exchange he will come to your home and check the GB at your main socket, if he is not getting the correct GB at this point you may have an HR line(the BT test does not see an HR line but you may get a slight noise) and it is down to BT to rectify it.

Check your main socket as i have told you in my earlier post, and make sure you have not damaged any cable that feed's your main socket.


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## sparrow (Feb 7, 2009)

MarkF said:


> Should have said, my PC has AVG, and Spyware running (Ccleaner used too) it's as clean as a whistle and every application is fast, the only issue is browsing speed, or rather, lack of.


have you tried using a different browser?

Have you cleaned all your cookies when you did ccleaner?

have you flushed the DNS?

what operating system are you on?

what router brand do you have and does it have the latest firmware installed?

What else at home uses the internet and how does that connect to the router (if you're in a fairly urban area sometimes loads of WIFI can bugger up connection - ignore this if you're cabled!)

the excuse that streaming is causing the speed to slow down is ******** - like telling someone they might not have running water when everyone gets home from work and runs a bath...


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

sparrow441 said:


> MarkF said:
> 
> 
> > Should have said, my PC has AVG, and Spyware running (Ccleaner used too) it's as clean as a whistle and every application is fast, the only issue is browsing speed, or rather, lack of.
> ...


If you read Mark's earlier posts, you will see he has tried a variety of hardware & software.

I'd agree - try connecting to your router via cable rather than wifi.

Also repeat my suggestion & others to connect your router directly into your master socket - that rules out any of your cabling being at fault.

Have you Googled your ISP - users are usually pretty vocal if a company has major issues they're trying to hide.

Basically, if your ISP is not providing the service you're paying for, and you're confident your equipment nor your line is not at fault, demand your MAC number & move on.


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## mattbeef (Jul 17, 2008)

Who is your provider Mark?

You have done everything that i would say to do first. Only think that i would ask is that when you changed the lead from the filter at the socket to the router was it a new cable? A friend had no end of issues with his BB and it turned out that the cable was shot.

If you have done that then get back on the phone to your ISP and tell them what you have done as you have replicated the fault on multiple machines with different routers.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Thanks again everybody, took me 7 minutes to even log on just now, TBH it's unuseable now, I have to go to work (yikes!) to use the net.

Steve, I've connected direct to the master outlet (no leads), used 3 different leads (one new) and am connected via cable not wireless normally.



mattbeef said:


> Who is your provider Mark?
> 
> You have done everything that i would say to do first. Only think that i would ask is that when you changed the lead from the filter at the socket to the router was it a new cable? A friend had no end of issues with his BB and it turned out that the cable was shot.
> 
> If you have done that then get back on the phone to your ISP and tell them what you have done as you have replicated the fault on multiple machines with different routers.


Fast.co.uk  had new router tried also, so yes, I switched cables, no difference. My ISP now says "We are waiting for BT to do the physical hardware change at the exchange". I don't have any idea what that means and TBH I am beginning to get sick of the whole thing.


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## Goodison (Sep 30, 2009)

Mark I don't work for BT anymore but i still work on their underground network,next time i have to go in an exchange i will make some enquiries for you. Mind you i hope your problem is sorted by then.


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/forumdisplay.php?f=554

Publicise your woes ???


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## Goodison (Sep 30, 2009)

Mark is your ISP buying wholesale broadband from BT?.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Goodison said:


> Mark is your ISP buying wholesale broadband from BT?.


Yes.

I have 90% speed back now, have had for 48 hours, ISP says it was BT's fault. Dont' care really, just glad I don't now have to deal with Sky/Virgin/Orange etc


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2010)

MarkF said:


> ISP says it was BT's fault.


Lol.

Buck = passed.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

For future a good standby is your E71. With mine I have an unlimited internet package and can connect my laptop through it, it's pretty quick as well.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

BondandBigM said:


> For future a good standby is your E71. With mine I have an unlimited internet package and can connect my laptop through it, it's pretty quick as well.


I'd still need a signal though at home, especially now the pub has locked theirs, can imagine some brewery area manager looking into why so much bandwith went on Chubbyland . What package are you one? I pay Â£5 a month for mobile roaming with T-Mobile but it's pretty poor and the deal is not every month.

Omnomynom, it was BT.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

MarkF said:


> BondandBigM said:
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> > For future a good standby is your E71. With mine I have an unlimited internet package and can connect my laptop through it, it's pretty quick as well.
> ...


Ours are with 3 about Â£40 quid for both both but both have load of minutes and unlimited internet. When I can't get on next doors wi-fi I just connect my laptop to 3 through the Nokia, works fine and the 3G fast enough.

Next door has Talk Talk which is through their BT phone line, again more than quick enough for me when I can get on it :lol:


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

The maximum penalty for stealing a broadband connection is six months in the pokey and/ or a Â£5000 fine. :jawdrop:


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Stan said:


> The maximum penalty for stealing a broadband connection is six months in the pokey and/ or a Â£5000 fine. :jawdrop:


Really? You can get fined Â£260 for dropping a cigarette butt, Â£1000 for your dog fouling, Â£2500 for dropping your Kit-Kat wrapper, and Â£5000 if you leave your dustbin out for collection too long.

Still, FYI, the signal was for "public" use. So, move along and find an easier target to hassle.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

MarkF said:


> Stan said:
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> > The maximum penalty for stealing a broadband connection is six months in the pokey and/ or a Â£5000 fine. :jawdrop:
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I wasn't talking to you so butt out.:wink1:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Stan said:


> MarkF said:
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I know :rofl:

I didn't "steal it"

It's an unsecured free to air Wi-Fi feed, I just search for a connection and up they pop. It is entirely up to the person to secure their own wi-fi. It wouldn't even get as far as a court never mind a fine or any time in the pokie. In any case there is absolutely no way they, whoever *they* are, would ever know which laptop it went to.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

BondandBigM said:


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They would though Mr B, every router keeps a log of devices and the IP addresses that have connected to it.

If the owner or ISP thought their banwidth limit was over budget it wouldn't take long to find out which device (other than the connection owners) was responsible. Due to the relative short range of domestic WiFi it wouldn't take long to put two and a couple together. If the ISP or connection owner contacted the old bill they would probably investigate.

Just a heads- up to make sure you cover your bottom mate.:wink1:


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## blackandgolduk (Apr 25, 2005)

BondandBigM said:


> Stan said:
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Au contraire Commander, it would be pretty easy as your laptop would leave a unique identifier on the network, which the boffins could decode. You may have a defence re: using the wi-fi network if you had a genuinely held belief that your neighbour would have no objection to you using it. However, depending on what you used it for, you may commit an offence under the Misuse of Telecomunications Act. You're almost certainly commiting the offence of abstracting electricity.

However, if you stick a couple of pints behind the bar of The Blue Lamp for me, we'll say no more about it...


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Stan said:


> BondandBigM said:
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Nope sorry but it would never happen, all bull & sh#t a bit like the tv detector vans.

How on earth would they find the laptop/computer that was *"sharing"* the wi-fi are they going to knock on every door within a hundred yard radius and ask to have a look at your computer. No agency is going to put that amount of effort or cost into it.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

BondandBigM said:


> Stan said:
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It's already happening, take a look at the Digital Economy Act. 

The internet is not the free, random environment it once was, trust me.

Not that you will. 

Just be careful.:wink1:


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Stan said:


> BondandBigM said:
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Doesn't get away from the fact that there is absolutely no way they can trace it to this laptop, is it even mine 

Which part of this are you not getting ?????


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

BondandBigM said:


> Stan said:
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I do think it's me that's not getting it. Never mind, I did try.


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## HappyLad (Oct 28, 2009)

BondandBigM said:


> How on earth would they find the laptop/computer that was *"sharing"* the wi-fi are they going to knock on every door within a hundred yard radius and ask to have a look at your computer. No agency is going to put that amount of effort or cost into it.


MAC address of the wireless adapter in the laptop.

This is unique to the machine its installed in - there is usually a sticker on the bottom of the laptop with the MAC address printed on it.

Consider that the MAC address is recorded with the machine serial number, and the machine serial number is recorded in the sales database of the retailer. Finding out who's machine has accessed the wifi node is a case of finding the right DB and doing the right search - only need to knock on doors to confirm the details.

But......

Like you said, still too much work/cost involved.

Unless you were doing something v.dodgy like nonce porn or suspected terrorist


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

HappyLad said:


> *But......*
> 
> *
> Like you said, still too much work/cost involved*.


Like I said

:lol: :lol:

Any way it was James Bond that bought the laptop


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

HappyLad said:


> BondandBigM said:
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> > How on earth would they find the laptop/computer that was *"sharing"* the wi-fi are they going to knock on every door within a hundred yard radius and ask to have a look at your computer. No agency is going to put that amount of effort or cost into it.
> ...


Or P2P file sharing from 2011. TalkTalk has admmited to random deep packet inspection, although it claims not for any "legalistic" reason. 

There is commercial software that can locate WiFi routers and any network device connected to them that will give a GPS location for each device. I have the freeware version and don't have the GPS facility, but it scares the sh!te out of me, to be honest.


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## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Stan said:


> Or P2P file sharing from 2011. TalkTalk has admmited to random deep packet inspection, although it claims not for any "legalistic" reason.
> 
> There is commercial software that can locate WiFi routers and any network device connected to them that will give a GPS location for each device. I have the freeware version and don't have the GPS facility, but it scares the sh!te out of me, to be honest.


More bull & sh#t



> Police regard it as a serious offence because intruders download without being caught. *But only the legitimate holder of the wi-fi account is likely to be tracked down.*


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

As you wish, Mr Secret Agent. :wink1:

You're obviously well equipped to deal with the digital economy.

Edit: Spelling, as usual.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Stan said:


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Like you were not. Spotted the chance but sliced it.  Who's next anyway?

My speed is now back to normal 24/7.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

MarkF said:


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Like I'd waste words on the likes of you. Go and polish your walnut. :blow:


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