# Ebay Hype?



## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Just noticed this *`Vintage British Air Ministry military spy watch 1940`* on ebay










sellers description....



> The case is finished in polished nickle with a stainless steel bezel and back.Made by Dennison.In good clean condition with all its military markings.It has the military arrow and 14A/1102 , 5024/42.These ordanace marks mean...Air Ministry..Recon / Ground ops..Duty 1940.These were the guys that dropped in behind enemy lines to gather information,most were captured by the Gestapo,this person obviously made it back alive.


Somehow I doubt these guys would be `dropped in behind enemy lines` with a watch identifying them as a spy


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

This is more convincing than that....









http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...=ADME:B:EF:UK:1


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

jasonm said:


> This is more convincing than that....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*WTF!!!*


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## psychlist (Feb 28, 2005)

jasonm said:


> This is more convincing than that....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've just spent a hilarious 5 minutes reading the questions from potential buyers and the sellers' replies


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## Russ (Feb 7, 2006)

So the guys had to walk about in occupied europe with a standard military issue 'spy' watch? Err, do you think after pulling a few of them in this might have been a bit of a give away?

Did they also have flashing signs on their heads saying 'I Am A Spy" ?......


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## dapper (Jun 18, 2004)

Russ said:


> Did they also have flashing signs on their heads saying 'I Am A Spy" ?......


No, they had signs that said 'I am *not* a spy'


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

dapper said:


> Russ said:
> 
> 
> > Did they also have flashing signs on their heads saying 'I Am A Spy" ?......
> ...


That would have worked


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Hmmm

Not so sure I'm with you guys on this.

As I understand it spy's would wear items such as dog tags identifying them as British military personnel because apparently there's something in the Geneva convention that prevents them being shot on capture if this is the case.

Not 100% sure but read it somewhere.

Worthy of further investigation anyway.


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## petetherig (Nov 11, 2005)

I've just had a look in Weslowski's book and 14A is:"Air Ministry issue code found on wristwatch used for reconnaissance/ground operations duty, c. 1940" Although his example is :

AM

14A/1102

21887

with no date mark.

There's an example in his book of an unbranded "economy" watch with the above markings.

Maybe they were given to pilots in reconaissance aircraft, or their spotters if they had them.

Pete


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## Russ (Feb 7, 2006)

Andy said:


> Hmmm
> 
> Not so sure I'm with you guys on this.
> 
> ...


I think I remember reading that captured soldiers had to be in uniform to be protected under the convention.


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## Nalu (Nov 28, 2003)

Russ said:


> Andy said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmm
> ...


Russ, is correct. The Geneva Conventions not only define the rights of a captured combatant, but also what constitutes a combatant. This includes a uniform, idenifying insignia, command structure, etc. Not to turn this into a topic for P and WA, but these definitions lie at the root of the Gitmo detainee controversy.


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Not wishing to be petty minded Nalu but that should read as Russ AND ANDY were correct, as it was me who broached this issue


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Andy said:


> Not wishing to be petty minded Nalu but that should read as Russ AND ANDY were correct, as it was me who broached this issue


I don't suppose it occured to you that you might not be correct









I stand to be corrected but I have never heard or read of spies wearing dog tags or miltary watches from their home country! ... to me it would seem to defeat the object of being a spy


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Im sure spies would not wear any such items,

If allied personell were picked up it was the absence of such items that marked them out as spies, and not then subject to the convention

if you could produce dog tags etc then it would prove you were not a spy and therefore treated accordingly...


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## scottishcammy (Jul 11, 2003)

I have it on good authority (  ) it totally depends on the mission at hand. Some missions may require you masquerade as a allied soldier, others would expressly require that you had no identification! There are no hard and fast rules. After all, doing that kind of job requires a fulid, lateral approach, without set boundaries. However, I also have it on good authority (  ) that spies (depending whether you mean military, i.e. SAS on op's or MI6 on specific 'blending in duties) tend to avoid anything that would identify them for who they are!


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

> tend to avoid anything that would identify them for who they are!


including eating local food prior to an op as its possible to analyze poop for Big Mac content !!


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Here you go Bond ..... false papers, miniature camera, poison gas pen, Omega SMP







.... and don't forget your Royal Navy ID card











jasonm said:


> > tend to avoid anything that would identify them for who they are!
> 
> 
> including eating local food prior to an op as its possible to analyze poop for Big Mac content !!


Now there's a branch of counter-espionage I wouldn't like to join


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## Nalu (Nov 28, 2003)

Andy said:


> Not wishing to be petty minded Nalu but that should read as Russ AND ANDY were correct, as it was me who broached this issue


I took Russ' point as being differing from yours by mentioning the uniform.

It's been a year since I've read the GC, but I don't recall ID tags as being mentioned specifically. ID tags, as the US military wear them, do _not_ identify you as a member of the military. They only list your name, blood type, social security numeber and religious preference. IOW, they are to ID a dead body and not a captured soldier. OTOH, we do carry ID cards in our wallets which have all the pertinent info including our GC Category.

Having said that, it occurs to me that I've been on missions where I did not wear a uniform and did not carry my military ID














Prolly not the best of ideas, but then again I've done many retrospectively foolish things!









So: sorry Andy, I was only agreeing with Russ


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