# Poor Man's Sub



## ussher (Sep 20, 2007)

Iâ€™m not a big fan of Rolex but I do love the look of a Sub on a Nato â€" the classic â€˜toolâ€™ watch simplicity of the Sub and the`blingâ€™ factor of a Rolex nicely toned down with the practicality of a Nato.

Anyway, Iâ€™m after a similar style watch to stick on a Nato that I wonâ€™t mind picking up a few knocks here and there. Budget wise Iâ€™m looking at sub Â£200 (don't mind used), but I do want something of reasonable quality.

There must be plenty of Submariner clones out there, but they must vary enormously in terms of quality. One brand thatâ€™s caught my eye is Grovana automatic diver watches (sold out at RLT), which appears to be very good quality (Iâ€™m a bit surprised at how they have so blatantly copied the Sub design though, considering they arenâ€™t cheap Chinese knock-offs).

Any experience of Grovana or suggestions of other brands?

Thanks


----------



## chris l (Aug 5, 2005)

(Deep breath)....

Alpha?


----------



## Andy Tims (Apr 13, 2008)

O&W


----------



## ussher (Sep 20, 2007)

I can't believe that an Alpha will last more than a few months or keep good time..? Anyone know to the contrary?


----------



## ussher (Sep 20, 2007)

Ollech and Wajs - good call, they do look good on a Nato. I have heard of some quality issues with these though (although perhaps realistic for the money?)


----------



## PaulBoy (Dec 2, 2007)

Apha - You'd be suprised then as they are built like a tank and imho only weakness is the bracelet & you'd not be using it!

O&W - Much as I like the one Andy posted (the pic is of one I used to own) I don't think that model is too Rolex looking

Grovana - I've had one of these too & build quality is excellent - They're nice and big too, bigger than a normal Rolex - If I wanted a Rolex-A-Like this'd be my choice :thumbsup:

Paul


----------



## ussher (Sep 20, 2007)

PaulBoy said:


> Apha - You'd be suprised then as they are built like a tank and imho only weakness is the bracelet & you'd not be using it!
> 
> O&W - Much as I like the one Andy posted (the pic is of one I used to own) I don't think that model is too Rolex looking
> 
> ...


Thanks paul that's interesting, and useful to hear from someone who has experience of both brands.


----------



## sangman2000 (Mar 30, 2008)

ussher said:


> I can't believe that an Alpha will last more than a few months or keep good time..? Anyone know to the contrary?


i have a alpha daytona it has been working ok for 9 mths and still ok


----------



## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Another possibility is the Orient 2ER00002B, they are available on ebay BIN for around about Â£120, also check out Orient watches UK.


----------



## JohnFraininthe93rd (Jul 4, 2006)

I've had a Marcello 3 Nettuno and a Robert Posseidon.

The Robert seems to be a poor mans Grovana (they are around 1/2 the price) but looks identical. For the money (Â£100 ish 2nd hand) I've not had a more solid feeling watch.

The Marcello C is a bit more expensive but also feels a bit more special. It also isn't an exact Sub copy which is a good thing in my book.

Beware though that for me neither satisfied my Sub urge in the long run and I ended up getting the real thing.

I've got an Alpha GMT Master hommage aas well but the bezel broke after a couple of weeks and now condensation gets in under the glass so I can't recommend the Brand.


----------



## JohnFraininthe93rd (Jul 4, 2006)

I've had a Marcello 3 Nettuno and a Robert Posseidon.

The Robert seems to be a poor mans Grovana (they are around 1/2 the price) but looks identical. For the money (Â£100 ish 2nd hand) I've not had a more solid feeling watch.

The Marcello C is a bit more expensive but also feels a bit more special. It also isn't an exact Sub copy which is a good thing in my book.

Beware though that for me neither satisfied my Sub urge in the long run and I ended up getting the real thing.

I've got an Alpha GMT Master hommage aas well but the bezel broke after a couple of weeks and now condensation gets in under the glass so I can't recommend the Brand.


----------



## Ventura (Nov 27, 2006)

Marcello-C Nettuno definately for quality !!!


----------



## Mutley (Apr 17, 2007)

ussher said:


> Ollech and Wajs - good call, they do look good on a Nato.


What he said :tongue2:


----------



## mattbeef (Jul 17, 2008)

Id go with the O&W as the one that Andy posted now belongs to me 

Got it on a Toshi and yes the bezel slightly rattles but its so comfortable and keeps great time. What more do you really want?


----------



## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

potz said:


> mattbeef said:
> 
> 
> > Id go with the O&W as the one that Andy posted now belongs to me
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## mrteatime (Oct 25, 2006)

potz said:


> mattbeef said:
> 
> 
> > Id go with the O&W as the one that Andy posted now belongs to me
> ...


not keen on those alpha clones


----------



## mrteatime (Oct 25, 2006)

potz said:


> mrteatime said:
> 
> 
> > potz said:
> ...


----------



## ussher (Sep 20, 2007)

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, a few new names to explore there.

I do like the Ollechs though â€" a colleague wears an M5 which keeps better time than my chronometer and looks the business on a Nato. Itâ€™s a shame RLT doesnâ€™t hold much stock - perhaps Iâ€™ll keep my eyes peeled on the Sales Corner.

Oh yes, that photo.... absolutely magnificent â€" never seen a `Bond' style Nato quite like it


----------



## Steve's Dad (Dec 19, 2007)

I agree about the Orient being a good sub-alike. This blue one is nice for Â£118 delivered and I have considered getting one myself, but I am no fan of cyclops crystals or mercedes (or is it cathedral?) hands. Of course I reserve the right to change my mind. :blink:










I don't want to start an Alpha-war but I have three and no problems at all, apart from loose pins in one of the the bracelets which is easily cured with a dab of Loctite (apparently). They do sub-alikes but I prefer the Omega-alikes, here's one of mine on a nato:










By the way, the Alpha site has been down for the last couple of days.

Cheers,

Ian


----------



## Mutley (Apr 17, 2007)

mrteatime said:


> potz said:
> 
> 
> > mattbeef said:
> ...


You might like this one Shawn :wink2:


----------



## PhilM (Nov 5, 2004)

Has to be the O&W for me as it's still swiss, also not that well known outside the WIS community


----------



## chris l (Aug 5, 2005)

ussher said:


> I can't believe that an Alpha will last more than a few months or keep good time..? Anyone know to the contrary?


The one shown is three years old and keeps time within 30 seconds a day. Mostly better.

It has been badly treated and used as a beater; it has raised my opinion of Alphas to the point to which I have bought a good few more!

They really are a good watch.

In my experience...


----------



## mattbeef (Jul 17, 2008)

potz said:


> mattbeef said:
> 
> 
> > Id go with the O&W as the one that Andy posted now belongs to me
> ...


If you can get me one for Â£220 ill take 3 

Drop me a PM what you have them :tongue2:


----------



## Paul (Mar 2, 2003)

potz said:


> :tongue2:


Edited - thought better of it

Paul D


----------



## Rotundus (May 7, 2012)

invicta










moved mine on because it is so much of a sub clone, cracking watch otherwise.

just prefer other things now as my experience of what is out there grows.


----------



## ussher (Sep 20, 2007)

Thanks again to all those whoâ€™ve offered suggestions. Looking at all these Sub-alikes itâ€™s clear that the original has some `magicâ€™ about it that is lost on the others. I guess this is testament as to why the original is regarded as such a classic.

Maybe Iâ€™ll give the cheapie Alpha a whirl to see how I feel about wearing a `cloneâ€™ on my wrist, and spend a bit more on something with a bit of personality/heritage.


----------



## ussher (Sep 20, 2007)

And with a few more posts *cough cough* Iâ€™ll be able to join the fun in the sales room....


----------



## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

Rolex on towelling?


----------



## Service Engineer (Dec 28, 2007)

ussher said:


> I can't believe that an Alpha will last more than a few months or keep good time..? Anyone know to the contrary?


I've had an Alpha 'Speedy' for several months now and it's working just fine. Keeps excellent time and the 'day' and 'date' change as they should.

The bracelet had a pin start to show out the end but a drop of 'Loctite' on it and it hasn't been seen since. Hardly a major problem.

For what they cost - they're good value in my opinion.


----------



## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Mrcrowley said:


> Rolex on towelling?


I've heard of looking after your watches, but wrapping them in warm terry towelling - that's just mollycoddling them Mr.C - does it have a hot water bottle for night-time as well ? :lol:


----------



## dapper (Jun 18, 2004)

This sterile version is pretty good quality:










There are both Asian and Swiss-powered ones around on ebay


----------



## mattbeef (Jul 17, 2008)

potz said:


> mattbeef said:
> 
> 
> > potz said:
> ...


Thats just crazy talk though. Fakes are never the answer IMO

Bit like those MR2 body kits that made it look like a Ferrari 355. Still not the same thing and your only ever kidding youself


----------



## birdie (Dec 22, 2008)

i thought about going for a sub-a-like for a daily beater but i found most have the cyclops eye date and i m just not a fan. at least this has shown me there are a few about with out this .


----------



## Agent orange (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm surprised no one's mention the Marcello C Nettuno yet




























Superb build quality, solid ETA 2824 movement and a bracelet that embarrasses anything from Rolex (I know this is irrelevant to you but it's a great bracelet all the same). They crop up on SC from time to time, one sold a few days ago for Â£160. It's certainly in a league above anything else that's been mentioned so far, imho anyway.

Cheers,

Gary


----------



## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

Agent orange said:


> and a bracelet that embarrasses anything from Rolex


Another urban myth that Rolex bracelets are not good. I had a 1978 GMT and when I sold it a couple of years ago the bracelet was still spot on. The latest evolution is even better and in some ways it give you an idea of where some of the cost of a Rolex comes from.


----------



## JohnFraininthe93rd (Jul 4, 2006)

Agent orange said:


> I'm surprised no one's mention the Marcello C Nettuno yet
> 
> Superb build quality, solid ETA 2824 movement and a bracelet that embarrasses anything from Rolex (I know this is irrelevant to you but it's a great bracelet all the same). They crop up on SC from time to time, one sold a few days ago for Â£160. It's certainly in a league above anything else that's been mentioned so far, imho anyway.
> 
> ...


I did! 

Agree with everything you said. The Rolex Sub is the original and the one with the "magic" but I have to admit that Marcello C does embarress Rolex in that it shows what can be achieved at a fraction of the price. If the Sub isn't a watch that you have to own then the Nettuno is all the watch you need.


----------



## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

mel said:


> Mrcrowley said:
> 
> 
> > Rolex on towelling?
> ...


No just comfy pillow on winder 

Its to protect bracelet. I have a robotic like armrest to take arm weight, which its been catching on.


----------



## BondandBigM (Apr 4, 2007)

potz said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> > Agent orange said:
> ...


Unfortunately not, can't even remember where I found it. I seem to think I might also have seen one for the new Deep Sea clasp as well but I can't find it so maybe in my Smirnoff fuelled imagination :lol:

B.


----------



## minkle (Mar 17, 2008)

BondandBigM said:


> potz said:
> 
> 
> > BondandBigM said:
> ...


I know where it may have come from.. but no legend with it.. will send a PM shortly..


----------



## Agent orange (Feb 11, 2006)

JohnFraininthe93rd said:


> I did!
> 
> Agree with everything you said. The Rolex Sub is the original and the one with the "magic" but I have to admit that Marcello C does embarress Rolex in that it shows what can be achieved at a fraction of the price. If the Sub isn't a watch that you have to own then the Nettuno is all the watch you need.


Sorry John and Ventura, speed reading again you'd think I'd know better by now.

As for the bracelet issue, I know there's nothing fundamentally wrong with a Rolex bracelet or clasp. It's just that other manufacturers produce ones that feel more substantially and solid, usually at a fraction of the price.

Cheers,

Gary


----------



## DMP (Jun 6, 2008)

Other Sub "homages" that may be worth considering, quality and value wise, are the Steinhart/Debaufre Ocean series. The Oceans are actually made by Grovana (basically Grovana Coral Reefs) and are, as you would expect, very well made with excellent bracelets and come in 39 & 42mm versions.


----------



## birdie (Dec 22, 2008)

another version available is a Seiko 5. lots of options with bezel and dial covers.


----------



## ussher (Sep 20, 2007)




----------



## Andy Tims (Apr 13, 2008)

Biase declared - I have one Rolex & have had several Porsche's My current 911 is 10 years old & I've had it 3 years - could never justify buying new, even I could afford to.



potz said:


> Porsches are flash in an ostentatious way.


Hardly - Ferrari & Lamborghini are flash. Porsches are pretty understated by comparison.



potz said:


> The 911 is a thoroughbred high performance sports car, but thoroughbred high performance sports cars don't cost Â£70k


It is & to buy one new you do need to spend a good few quid.


----------



## ussher (Sep 20, 2007)

> K m8, I can see where you're (coming) from. To paraphrase your chain of argument: Porsches are flash in an ostentatious way. The 911 is a thoroughbred high performance sports car, but thoroughbred high performance sports cars don't cost Â£70k (I've left out the question mark as I do actually know what I'm talking about). For comparable quality you'd look elsewhere, but for the "look" you're willing to pay a couple of grand.
> 
> That is just so ill-informed on all fronts, to put it nicely, and so full of sweeping generalisations, it doesn't even warrant a counter argument. Maybe someone else will bother.


Not sure I quite follow your car analogy me 'ole mucker. Anyway, not particularly interested in igniting an argument, just expressing my opinion in response to your comment and 'huh'? smiley.


----------



## Andy Tims (Apr 13, 2008)

I think the analogy relates to real quality costing a few quid initially. You see lots of old Porche's & old Rolex that look pretty well brand new.

That was certainly the point I was trying to make.


----------



## Parabola (Aug 1, 2007)

Ah just get a mortgage and buy a Rolex SD DEEPSEA, you only live once!!


----------



## ussher (Sep 20, 2007)

> Yepp. Nothing like getting the real deal for real money. And in no way is it my personal opinion that Porsches are flash, Rolex are bling and that neither is worth the money so you should get a lookalikee. Quite the opposite. I presently have a vintage and a new Rolex, both definite keepers. There are more on my wishlist as is a 911 (no later than '96 - can't stand those watercooled poncemobiles). I had a '74 Targa for a while and that was oodles of fun. My girlfriend at the time had a '96 C4 ... lent a whole new meaning to the word "quickie".
> 
> Oh yes ... as far as the "analogy" goes ... I was just hoping that if I translate the argument verbatim into the realm of cars it would become blatantly obvious what a load of bollox it is. And that it was evidently made by someone who knows sweet f. a. about watches, their history and their pricing.


 :lol: Don't get yer knickers in a twist. I think Rolex are overpriced. That's my opinion. I could be wrong. I don't mind paying "real money for the real deal", it's just I wear an Omega rather than a Rolex based on that opinion.

Can we kiss and make up now? :bb:


----------



## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Parabola said:


> Ah just get a mortgage and buy a Rolex SD DEEPSEA, you only live once!!


OK it is well known that I`m not willing to pay the amount of money new Rolex (particularly the divers)sell for, but where the SDDS is concerned having seen one in the flesh they`d have to pay me to wear it, sorry but while the sub is a classic, IMO the SDDS is just fugly :yucky:


----------



## gallch (Jan 7, 2007)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Parabola said:
> 
> 
> > Ah just get a mortgage and buy a Rolex SD DEEPSEA, you only live once!!
> ...


Ah well, that just helps me make my Rolex and BMW analogy again which I so enjoy doing, and as an owner of one of each - Rolexes are NOT rare or exclusive per se, they are a mass-market luxury brand, just like BMW. And just like BMW there are more or less expensive models including some VERY expensive ones, and also just like BMW they have some real classics in their back-catalogue and some dreadful ugly models in the current range.

The Porsche analogy just doesn't work for me.

I rest my case, m' lud.


----------



## - Baz - (Jul 13, 2008)

Well, either of these would be my choice...


----------



## ussher (Sep 20, 2007)

- Baz - said:


> Well, either of these would be my choice...


Looking good on that strap. Me like.


----------



## - Baz - (Jul 13, 2008)

ussher said:


> Looking good on that strap. Me like.


Yes, me too. Much prefer the Seiko to any Sub-a-like. Besides which it's not strictly a homage. It borrows certain elements, but retains its own distinctive character.

Review of the Seiko Submariner here:

Seiko SKX031K review

BTW, the SNZF17J-N is slightly more expensive but has the 7236 mvt


----------



## - Baz - (Jul 13, 2008)

...OR, you could get one of these beauties and bung it on a NATO (a bit heavy on a NATO, though). The SKX007. A classic in its own right...


----------



## Parabola (Aug 1, 2007)

potz said:


> Parabola said:
> 
> 
> > Ah just get a mortgage and buy a Rolex SD DEEPSEA, you only live once!!
> ...


I'd probably agree, and if you ever want to trade that SD for an O&W MP Auto in a slightly battered condition, a Seiko Orange monster-lite, or an old Stowa then firstly give me a PM h34r: and secondly get your head seen to :lol:



mach 0.0013137 said:


> Parabola said:
> 
> 
> > Ah just get a mortgage and buy a Rolex SD DEEPSEA, you only live once!!
> ...


I don't know I quite like the SD-DS, but if I was parting with my own money I'd go for the SD, simply because its half the price


----------

