# Uk Customs & Excise And V A T



## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Having recently made my single biggest purchase (thanks to all those of you who advised me on sniping software







) from a well known Internet auction site, I've just been doing a little research into UK Customs & Excise / VAT rates on Internet purchases. I thought the following two documents may be of interest:

Common Internet Goods

To cut a long story short, watches attract a 4.5% duty rate + the standard rate of VAT.

Notice 143 - A Guide for International Post Users

This is basically the small print!

The pertinent web page on the HM Customs & Excise web page is HERE


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

It's a real hit and miss process Rich

In my experience couriers (DHL etc) always seem to charge, Parcelforce usually, but not always charge, and the normal post sometimes charges









good luck









Can't wait to see a pic of the purchase


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

> Can't wait to see a pic of the purchase


I've been told it's on its way


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2005)

Echo what John said re the customs charges.

Looking forward to seeing what you bought.


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

My IWC was shipped as a used precision instrument. I payed Â£29.

I could just have been lucky. Maybe they open some of them?


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## AlexR (May 11, 2003)

That is not very honest Paul


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

AlexR said:


> That is not very honest Paul
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What?


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## AlexR (May 11, 2003)

Not having the parcel marked correctly and declaring a false value.I hope no one in customs is reading this thread


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

I think we would have known about it by now if so.


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## AlexR (May 11, 2003)

They might be watching you for the future














They do you know


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

> I payed Â£29.


What would be your position regarding the payout if it had gone missing, how undervalued was it?

When my Zilla was in Stanstead with Fedex, they phoned me up and asked me how much I had paid for it to check if the declaration was correct....Which it was..

(No, it wasnt Alyson checking up on me







)


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Having now read much of the small print, I can tell you that yes, they do indeed open some of the packages. I was also a little alarmed to find out that the seller can write pretty much whatever he likes on the customs declaration forms but you, as the importer, are the one that will be held responsible for any apparrent wrong-doing









Not that the thought had even crossed my mind of course - the C&E do a fabulous job and they're all wonderful, lovely people


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

This has suddenly turned into the goody goody forum................


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Mrcrowley said:


> This has suddenly turned into the goody goody forum................
> 
> 
> 
> ...


...Only when there's anybody watching


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## AlexR (May 11, 2003)

Goody goody?

Paul,I was only stating my opinions.Not paying the correct amount of duties on an import is unlawful,I would never do it.

What you do is up to you.


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

AlexR said:


> Goody goody?
> 
> Paul,I was only stating my opinions.Not paying the correct amount of duties on an import is unlawful,I would never do it.
> 
> ...


Ok, whatever.

You never done anything untoward then?


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## AlexR (May 11, 2003)

I always pay my taxes,and have never imported a watch without stating the correct value,in fact I never buy from abroad now.I would rather support UK dealers.

All IMO only Paul,not having a go at you


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

AlexR said:


> I always pay my taxes,and have never imported a watch without stating the correct value,in fact I never buy from abroad now.I would rather support UK dealers.
> 
> All IMO only Paul,not having a go at you
> 
> ...


Fair do.

Actually, the guy told me that's how he shipped them. Silly me didn't ask if it was insured separately. Would have served me right if it had gone AWOL.


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

AlexR said:


> I always pay my taxes,and have never imported a watch without stating the correct value,in fact I never buy from abroad now.I would rather support UK dealers.
> 
> All IMO only Paul,not having a go at you
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2005)

JoT said:


> AlexR said:
> 
> 
> > I always pay my taxes,and have never imported a watch without stating the correct value,in fact I never buy from abroad now.I would rather support UK dealers.
> ...


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

Actually Alex you have a very good point there.

I would, on the whole, rather give my money to UK dealers. I just think it unfair we seem to pay so much more than other countries. If Roy had had a second hand one I would have bought it from him!

Plus lot less risk & hassle just ordering from somebody here. After the fiasco with the Bill Yao I said I wouldn't buy from abroad again. However I felt the opportunity was to good to pass. I doubt I would dare spend so much now that would see the need to shop abroad. It's nice when your wife isn't in strangulation mode


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Parcelfarce have just nailed me for Â£215.10 on a parcel of $1229 (including postage).

I make that 35% !!









They have broken it down as:

Import Duty Â£79.30

VAT Â£122.30

Clearance Fee Â£13.50

How did they get to that? First time I have ever been hit with import duty, has something changed??

I am going to challenge this with HM Revenue and Customs, I will keep you posted.


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Fek!

Thats crazy.....









Good luck John ....


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## 11oss (Jun 15, 2007)

Dont forget they tax you on the shipping fees as well.

Value of goods + cost of shipping







Now how can that be fair? Also these watches that most of us buy abroad were usualy made in europe anyway. They have been taxed and taxed and taxed.

I don't understand how we should be taxed on a second hand watch in the first place. Surely we should be rewarded for being green









I always try to support local traders whenever possible. However not having millions in the bank buying second hand from abroad does not hurt local suppliers as I could not afford to buy new here anyway in most cases. So its either buy second hand or nothing.


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## PhilM (Nov 5, 2004)

B******s, I've got something due in the next month which I don't want to pay anymore on







I just hope the've made a mistake


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## mrteatime (Oct 25, 2006)

neil said:


> Echo what John said re the customs charges.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing what you bought.


is that your english bull terrier?????


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2007)

Come on gents shake hands -LIFES TOO SHORT


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## mart broad (May 24, 2005)

JoT said:


> Parcelfarce have just nailed me for Â£215.10 on a parcel of $1229 (including postage).
> 
> I make that 35% !!
> 
> ...


John

Thats sounds like bad arithmetic,reckon it should be about Â£134.00 on Â£630.00 give or take,got to challenge that figure.

My view on buying outside the EU is always factor in 20% to the purchase price as a ball park addition,if the watch is still ahead of UK pricing you have a result,its that simple.

As to only dealing within the UK,i agree support local but thats not always possible if the watch you want has no UK-AD or is not available here in the UK Doxa,Kobold & Bathy's spring to mind.

Good luck John

Martin


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## Barryboy (Mar 21, 2006)

Perhaps as a professional in the freight industry I can tell you how it works, and also more to the point, how it should work:

Firstly you should accept that Customs are simply there to carry out the bidding of our Lords and Masters, the politicians. If you have a problem with the rates of VAT or import duty don't bitch at the Customs people - they have no more control over that than the lady in the Post office who collects your TV licence money. They are simply people doing a job, just like all of us.

Now when you buy a watch from abroad you import it - that's the legal interpretation. Now it doesn't matter if you've bought this for your own private use or if you've bought it to sell on as part of a business - there is no scope for difference here unless you are bringing it in from abroad in person - that way the first Â£140 worth of value is classed as a personal allowance and is duty free. If you acquire it from a foreign seller and it is brought into the country by a third party such as a freight company or a courier or even the mail, then it's considered that you are making a business transaction, simply cutting out the 'middle man' or UK authorised retailer. It is classed as imported and it becomes liable to import duty (not excise duty, that's an entirely separate tax) plus VAT. The value that Customs uses as a base line to determine the taxes is the value that you paid for the watch plus the cost of getting it delivered to you - in other word what it cost to get you to get hold of it.

The amount of import duty is a straightfoward ad valorem calculation, i.e. a percentage of the value. VAT is charged at standard rate (17.5%) of the value plus the duty you paid - yes, you actually pay VAT on your duty as well as the price of the goods. Seems unfair, doesn't it?

Now the value that's used as the basis for this calculation is the value that the Shipper writes upon the packet and this is where things start to get a little problematic. Customs can, and do, open a percentage of parcels that come through the system, look at the contents and decide if the value declared is fair. Now if you have a Seiko which has been declared at $100 you are far more likely to get this accepted than a Rolex which has been declared with a similar value. In that case Customs will apply a value which they consider more realistic, and quite frankly they are usually very accurate with their valuations. Similarly they apply such market values to items described as 'gifts' as this is a ploy well known to them.

Now all this is done at the point of import and before you even know the package is in the country. Let's say it's a Fedex package through Stanstead: the duty is paid by Fedex to HMC and they then recover it from you at the time of delivery. The same procedure applies for Postal parcels, it's just that you end up paying Parcelfarce instead of Fedex. In addition to the money paid to the Customs you also have to pay charges to the carrier for handling the Customs entry. By the way, JOT, Â£13.50 is a very modest sum indeed for a Customs entry - the going rate is more like Â£35.

The only exception to this is if you are able to prove conclusively to Customs that the goods have at some time been in the EC in a duty paid condition (the phrase is 'in free circulation') and were exported. In that case you could apply for duty free entry quoting Customs Procedure Code 400063 but this only covers import duty - you would still have to pay VAT. But you would need the documentary evidence to prove your case, and that would be unlikely, I suggest.

No, face up to it. If you buy a watch from abroad you have to accept that you are going to probably pay up to about 23% or so in taxes here in the UK. I can only suggest that you negotiate the price of your purchases with that in mind, although I accept that it's not that easy. If you try to avoid duty by underdeclaring the value that is a criminal offence, and Customs have the right to confiscate the item, take you to Court and also recover their costs (very substantial amounts, they are, too....) which means you are a loser all round. Personally, unless I can get something very cheap indeed, I don't like buying from abroad because so much can go wrong.

Rob


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

JoT said:


> I am going to challenge this with HM Revenue and Customs, I will keep you posted.


*Make sure you do* - my experience HM Customs is perfectly reasonable and open to being proved wrong.

Some years ago I had some jewelry made in HKG and posted to me. It was intercepted and HM Customs didn't accept the value on the declaration. They had the piece appraised by their own expert & charged me accordingly.

When I queried it - they were happy to accept a copy of the invoice & proof of payment as indication of price paid. I sent both in and got a cheque by return


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2007)

I would hate to face a bill later having saved up for a grail ,i think i would make sure i was insured and had paid every thing up front.Yet i think it will be a while before that happens


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

I suspect I started this thread (over two years ago now!) when I purchased my 1960's Glycine Airman (with JoT's invaluable assistance to help me differentiate it from the numerous fakes around at the time) from an American eBay seller. As I recall, I think the import duty/VAT etc. cost me nigh on an extra Â£100.

Whilst I don't specifically blame the C&E staff for this outrageous additional cost for a 40-year old, second-hand, Swiss made watch, their "job" is one I could never bring myself to do. It's almost as bad as being a Traffic Warden!


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

I always factor in about 20% charges when I buy from a non EU country. As you can often get savings greater than 20% is is worthwhile, however this time they have excelled themselves at 35%









I need to find out why they charged me Â£70 odd pounds duty as well as VAT


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

Thats what I reckoned recently upon importing from the states, around 20%.....it just about made it worth it....but so far have not heard from FedEx as was fortold in here














you load of pessimists you!







, well not yet anyway









What happens if you are sent a gift....and I mean a real gift from overseas (outside the EU)....I have a friend in Japan and she loves to send me stuff unique from Japan....including watches maybe? 

What is C&E view and REAL gifts?

Best regards David


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## mart broad (May 24, 2005)

Boxbrownie said:


> Thats what I reckoned recently upon importing from the states, around 20%.....it just about made it worth it....but so far have not heard from FedEx as was fortold in here
> 
> 
> 
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I think duties are payable on any value over Â£18.00,i stand to be corrected.

Martin


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Hmmm, so how much "duty" or whatever you want to call it, do you think I might have to pay for the first five series of Dallas on DVD which is winging its way to me from the USA at this very moment for the princely sum of $107?

When I have to pay up at the Post Office counter I will surely throw a fit worthy of the "poison dwarf"


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

rondeco said:


> JoT said:
> 
> 
> > Parcelfarce have just nailed me for Â£215.10 on a parcel of $1229 (including postage).
> ...


Where did you get the 10% import duty rate from? I have only ever been charged VAT in the past.


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## unlcky alf (Nov 19, 2006)

Boxbrownie said:


> Thats what I reckoned recently upon importing from the states, around 20%.....it just about made it worth it....but so far have not heard from FedEx as was fortold in here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Last time FedEx sent me a bill for VAT etc it was 3 months after I received the item, sorry David but you're not out of the woods yet







On the bright side, it was the first time they've collared me.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2007)

looking at that Ron ,ill forget about the grail abroa







d


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

rondeco said:


> I've always been charged Import Duty @ 10% Jon .


It's the inconsistency that pisses me off, this is the first watch I have had from the US that has attracted duty as well as VAT.


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## limey (Aug 24, 2006)

11oss said:


> Now how can that be fair? Also these watches that most of us buy abroad were usualy made in europe anyway. They have been taxed and taxed and taxed.
> 
> I don't understand how we should be taxed on a second hand watch in the first place. Surely we should be rewarded for being green


As Rob stated also, you need to prove that the watch was paid for in Europe at some point. My Omega is a Swiss watch, but no taxes were paid on it until I purchased it at the AD in the USA. And now if I want to send it back for TLC I have to take it to US Customs so I don't get hit again when they ship it back to me. My point - just because it was made in Europe doesn't mean any taxes were paid there.



PhilM said:


> B******s, I've got something due in the next month which I don't want to pay anymore on
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Phil, probably not. Good luck.



Barryboy said:


> The only exception to this is if you are able to prove conclusively to Customs that the goods have at some time been in the EC in a duty paid condition (the phrase is 'in free circulation') and were exported. In that case you could apply for duty free entry quoting Customs Procedure Code 400063 but this only covers import duty - you would still have to pay VAT. But you would need the documentary evidence to prove your case, and that would be unlikely, I suggest.





rhaythorne said:


> Hmmm, so how much "duty" or whatever you want to call it, do you think I might have to pay for the first five series of Dallas on DVD which is winging its way to me from the USA at this very moment for the princely sum of $107?


I don't think they will charge you for that, it's obvious you're beyond help







Unless it's "Debbie does..."







:tongue2:









Of course you could always try and have the seller label the package as "horological item for repair", but we run into problems even with legitimate stuff like that at work.


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## Robert (Jul 26, 2006)

Ron

I think its Â£7


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## Boxbrownie (Aug 11, 2005)

unlcky alf said:


> Boxbrownie said:
> 
> 
> > Thats what I reckoned recently upon importing from the states, around 20%.....it just about made it worth it....but so far have not heard from FedEx as was fortold in here
> ...


Oh well I will enjoy it while I can....in the mean time I will screw down the letterbox









Best regards David

ps, I thought duty on watches was only 4.5%...something that even C&E cannot change, its in B&W on thier website?


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## PhilM (Nov 5, 2004)

Thought I would bring this thread back to life instead of starting a new one, as I've a question about import duty







I'm well aware of the issues that we face when importing a watch from outside the EU but wanted to ask how this differs when buying a watch from within the EU.

Say for instance I decided to buy a watch from a seller in Germany, what are the hidden costs from our lovely friends at C&E if the watch has a value of say Â£1500.


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## Toshi (Aug 31, 2007)

PhilM said:


> Thought I would bring this thread back to life instead of starting a new one, as I've a question about import duty
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To be honest Phil, I've never had to pay a penny extra when importing from the EU. I've had recent purchases shipped to me from Germany, Sweden & Italy and never been asked to pay anything. The only time I've been clobbered is purchases from the US.

Rich


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## mrteatime (Oct 25, 2006)

are the rules the same if you but from within the E.U?


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Going slightly off on a tangent, I wonder if you had the contacts, what countries in the EU have the lowest import duties, for example could you import to Greece and then to the UK and be worth it financially?


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## PhilM (Nov 5, 2004)

Toshi said:


> PhilM said:
> 
> 
> > Thought I would bring this thread back to life instead of starting a new one, as I've a question about import duty
> ...


Thanks for the info Rich, I thought I should be okay but wanted to check as that's not a surprise that I want to get


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## LuvWatch (May 14, 2004)

Same here Phil, never paid anything towards the exchequer for EU purchases.

I did purchase a watch from Switzerland (through Ebay) and still didn't get stung.

Though some folks in the EU want to charge enormous amounts for postage







.

BTW..........Whatcha gettin'









Derek


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## PhilM (Nov 5, 2004)

LuvWatch said:


> BTW..........Whatcha gettin'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nothing at the moment Derek, just started looking


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