# I Need A New Camera



## mach 0.0013137

It`s getting time I updated my old Canon G3 it`s getting rather cranky, the view screen doesn`t work when flipped out also the photos are noticebly not as good as they used to be 

I don`t want to spend a lot no more then around Â£350, I`ve read loads of reviews but they naturally often seem to contradict each other 

Working on the basis that compacts usually have smaller photo sensors then SLRs which as far as I can gather means that where both have the same pixel count results from the SLRs are likely to be better, my present front runner is the Olympus E420.

When I used to use film as a general rule a good prime lens beat a zoom so being as picture quality is a main concern I`m considering getting the camera with the f2.8/25mm Pancake lens, although I have read one review which stated that it wasn`t as good as the 14-42mm zoom. I have a Canon A590 which is used for general snapshots & the main use I intend for the new camera is for `still life` ie taking photos of watches etc., so having a fixed lens wouldn`t be a problem.

So does anyone have experience of the E420 & either lens or could suggest another alternative?


----------



## Sparky

Whilst I have no experience of the E420, I own a Nikon D60 which IMHO is a fantastic camera and can be had for Â£350 with a standard 18-55 kit lens which is pretty good and is the lens that I use on all of my watch photos inc this one which I think is one of my best pics yet










Let us know what you decide

Mark


----------



## mach 0.0013137

Thanks Mark, I`ll give it some consideration, any other suggestions guys?

BTW one feature I do like on digital cameras is live view however I notice this isn`t available on all bottom end SLRs though


----------



## Tom Radford

You wont go far wrong with a lower end Nikon. The thing with Olympus is, they dont have the range of lenses say Nikon or Canon do, and thier interfaces are nowjere near as easy to use as Nikon.

A nikon D60 paired with a 50mm f/1.8 lens would be around your budget, and then you have a massive world of lenses to expand into should you want to. The 50mm f/1.8 is a cracker of a lens, and at around Â£100 is possibly the best Â£100 you could spend.

Live view on SLR's is overated in my opinion, the autofocus is really slow and when you have a lovely clear viewfinder there, it seems silly to me.


----------



## mach 0.0013137

Thanks for the suggestion Tom but doing a quick search seems to show it`s somewhat above the price I`m looking to spend. Part of my reluctance to spend more is due to the fact that digital cameras seem to be basically disposable, not really made to last or financially worth repairing if (when) they develop faults a few years down the line.

I`m not actually bothered about using other lenses & would be quite happy just having something around similar in focal lengh to the Olympus 25mm which I gather is equvilant to a 50mm standard on 35mm film cameras.


----------



## PaulBoy

Nikon or Canon DSLR seems the obvious choice to me & there's a huge used market out there to find something in your budget - I know the Canon 450D has 'Live View' & might be in budget if you find a used one around? - A quick look at Talkphotography Forum For Sale shows the body sells used for around Â£270 & a 50mm prime can be had for around Â£75 new (a bit less used)

HTH

Paul


----------



## Tom Radford

I was talking used for the camera, they can be picked up for around Â£250 if you shop around on ebay.

However if you arent really interested in upgrading lenses etc, then the Oly will probably be fine.


----------



## mach 0.0013137

I know a camera repairer from the days when I used to collect them & he`s not convinced of the long term reliability of digital cameras or the cost viabilty of making more then minor repairs to them so I`m disinclined to go down the second hand route for my next purchase.


----------



## Tom Radford

I've had a nikon D200 for over 4 years with not even a hint of a problem.

Being a member of a very large international photo forum, I have not heard of many cases of Nikon or any other major brand cameras failing, only the odd one or two, which is always sorted in warranty.

I dont think there are any more reliabilty issues with digital cameras than there are of 35mm ones.

I agree however that the cost of repair usually far outways the cost of replacement when something does go horribly wrong, but that is the same for most electronics.


----------



## Stuart Davies

I have a Canon 300D (DSLR) 28-55mm.

Does pretty much everything I want it to. Paid Â£600 when it was brand new but I believe you can pick up a 300 / 350 / 400D for peanuts second hand...


----------



## Carl

Throwing a curve ball here but for dSLRs have a look at Pentax / Samsung, highly underestimated IMHO. The Pentax K10d / Samsung GX10 can be had for silly money and since you're going mostly for still life you could pick up some quality vintage Pentax glass for next to nowt (the Pentax K mount hasn't changed in years, unlike other big name brands). Bear in mind that these would be manual focus, but for example the k-mount 50mm M series f1.7 lens can be had for around Â£20, the 28mm for a little bit more. Some sample pics:

50mm f1.7 manual focus










Samsung kit lens + Raynox DCR250 adaptor:










Carl


----------



## mach 0.0013137

Thanks guys, you`ve definitely given me food for thought :wink2:


----------



## futuristfan

Hi

Have just purchased a Canon 450D after using 35mm for a long time have found this a very easy but competent Digital slr.

Although I purchased new as a present to myself Â£450 have seen some really well priced used on ebay.

Dean


----------



## Agent orange

Mach I use an old(ish) Nikon D50 and can highly recommend it. I've often thought of upgrading but at the end of the day it does everything I need it to do and probably more and hell, I've got watches to buy







. The advantage of both Nikon and Canon (to a lesser extent) is the sheer abundance of lenses, new and old, that are still compatible even with a modern DSLR.

I've no idea about second hand values but I'd imagine they'd be easily affordable within your range and with a good lens or two as well.

A few of my attempts at pics.





































HTH and good luck in your search.

Cheers,

Gary


----------



## Padders

Olympus make fantastic lenses and always have. Their Zuiko branded stuff is routinely better than either Canon or Nikon in the consumer market at least but, and it is a big but, the sensors used on all Olympus DSLRs are considerably smaller than the APS-C type used on competing models and as such cram the same number of photosites in tighter leading to poorer high iso performance. An Olympus DSLR is never a bad choice but if you ever need to take a photo at iso 1600 or worse still 3200 then you will wish you went Canon or Nikon (but not the d60/3000 which are not good at high ISO)


----------



## squareleg

A lot of good suggestions there.

Mac - before you make any final decisions, have a look at the Panasonic 'Lumix' range. If, like me, you're a bit of a 'point-and-shoot' kind of guy, these cameras are really forgiving. It's worth remembering, also, that a great deal can be achieved nowadays in post-production; so a really first class lens is less important than it used to be - unless you're a professional, obviously. I bought mine (a DMC-FZ5) s/hand on the forum a while ago for less than Â£100 and it's really all I need from a camera. It has a Leica lens, 12X optical zoom and excellent macro mode. I kind of lust after its bigger brothers but, for now, it's as much of a camera as my limited skills - and patience! - require.

Good luck!


----------



## mach 0.0013137

Thanks for the suggestions guys more food for thought, I`m sure things used to be easier before digital


----------



## chris l

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions guys more food for thought, I`m sure things used to be easier before digital


Easier? then why are all my copies of Wallace Heaton's Blue Book so heavily thumbed....? And Photo Technique? And the BJP?

Consider the Sony Alpha 200? Amazon list it at Â£349 and you can buy new proper Zeiss lenses, and use all the lovely old Rokkors from the days when Halogenic compounds of silver ruled, the white powder in the cupboard was, probably, Sodium Thiosulphate.

Or borax. Officer.

The Alpha has lots of pixelie things, which I gather is important, and makes nice pictures.

Or buy a film scanner. I did. It's great fun.

(D-76 rules)


----------



## Guest

I'd have to say Fujifilm S9600...I use one daily for eBay listings and it's never let me down - it has the live view, pull out and flip up/down screen, auto mode and all the fancy modes too. I've been using it and its ancestors for 5 years now...I think it's only Â£200 or below to buy. I do have other lenses for it but I find the standard barrel the best...


----------



## mach 0.0013137

Thanks again for the suggestions, after further investigation I`m leaning towards the Nikon D5000 with 18-55mm. At around Â£530 it`s somewhat over my original budget but does appear to suit my requirements.


----------



## The Watchmaster

Panasonic G1 all the way if you can spend a lil more

if not the olympus will have to suffice :to_become_senile:


----------



## Tom Radford

Its a great little camera. You wont go wrong with a Nikon!



mach 0.0013137 said:


> Thanks again for the suggestions, after further investigation I`m leaning towards the Nikon D5000 with 18-55mm. At around Â£530 it`s somewhat over my original budget but does appear to suit my requirements.


----------



## enbee23

Interesting thread with some good ideas. I'm looking at buying an inexpensive DSLR at the moment too... My first thought was towards Nikon but I have a pile of good PK-A glass from back in the day that could come in quite handy on one of those Pentax/Samsung thingies. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


----------



## Guest

Any blow ups and the bigger sensor size is needed for decent quality so go for an SLR. Any decent Canon or Nikon will do the job. Older secondhand versions are cheap such as Canon EOS10/20D can still produce great results with some good post production.


----------



## kornafluckees

Any recent Olympus with live view would be a good choice and don't worry too much about lenses. All Olympus DSLR cameras have the Four Thirds format sensor and the universal Four Thirds format lens mount. Thus any Panasonic or Leica 4/3 lenses will also fit ... and there are adaptors available to use Nikon, Olympus OM, Leica R and Contax SLR and DSLR lenses - but without autofocus and auto metering. The Panasonic G1 could also be a good choice - it is a Micro Four Thirds format and is adaptable for use with all the aforementioned lenses plus Canon FD, Minolta MD and Leica M lenses. The G1 has been shown to out resolve the Nikon D3 but many Nikon users utter disbelief at the fact - even when the facts and proof have been presented to them.

There are no bad buy DSLR cameras these days and most offer good value for money. Buying used can save Â£Â£ - for internet use ie posting pix on forums even a 5 megapixel DSLR will do a good job. I have a pro spec Olympus E1 which although only 5 megapixels produces excellent pictures and only cost me Â£150 secondhand. And I can use Leica and Contax lenses with it. Because it is a pro spec camera it is good for 200,000 actuations.

If you plan to take photos of watches for posting on forums then might be worth considering buying a decent tripod and even a focusing rail as well as a camera.

Cheers

dunk


----------



## mach 0.0013137

Thanks for the continued input guys unfortunately I still haven`t got the camera,since retiring things have been financially a bit chaotic ie paying off the mortgage etc. There was also a missunderstanding on my part regarding my final wage packet & buying the Heuer Super Pro didn`t help either but it had to be done 

Anyway things are begining to settle down now so hopefully I`ll soon have a better idea of how much money I can spend but there`s some other stuff I need to get as well including a new record deck & laptop so it could take a little time to sort out


----------



## outstretchedhands

I had the E420 but I eventually went back to Nikon. Main reason was noise entering the images, something I now no longer get.


----------



## Parabola

As soon as some buys my Omega, I'm getting a new camera, I have a similar budget and I'm currently torn between a Panasonic LX-3 and Canon G10

http://www.whatdigitalcamera.com/equipment/advice/322283/canon-powershot-g10-vs-panasonic-lumix-lx3-head-to-head-review.html


----------



## mach 0.0013137

Well I bought the Nikon D5000 +18-55VR on Friday, it`s a feck of a lot more complex then my old Canon G3, so far I managed to take some totally crap shots :taz:

I`ll obviously have to throughly familiarise myself with the manual and the `Nikon D5000 For Dummies` book I managed to pick up & do a lot of practice shots before I put the G3 out to pasture 

I`ll freely admit digital is conveniant but boy I do miss the simplicity of my old Leicas


----------



## Tom Radford

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Well I bought the Nikon D5000 +18-55VR on Friday, it`s a feck of a lot more complex then my old Canon G3, so far I managed to take some totally crap shots :taz:
> 
> I`ll obviously have to throughly familiarise myself with the manual and the `Nikon D5000 For Dummies` book I managed to pick up & do a lot of practice shots before I put the G3 out to pasture
> 
> I`ll freely admit digital is conveniant but boy I do miss the simplicity of my old Leicas


Congrats, great little camera. It may seem daunting at first, but give it time and you will get the hang of it.

Start off using the auto and scene modes, and when you take a good picture, note down the setting the camera used, i.e, what ISO, aperture and exposure. Once you get to grips with how the camera gets the shots, you can switch to manual mode and start experimenting with different exposures. Also take care with the focusing. DSLR's focusing is much more presise than others, to even being off focus a tiny bit can ruin an image. Stick with Autofocus for now, I tend to use single point, but for starters you might be better off with one of the other modes (not sure what they are on the D5000). And keep the metering in matrix mode for now, to let the camera decide the best all round exposure settings.

The great thing about digital is you can take as many crap shots as you like, it doesnt cost you anything!


----------



## mach 0.0013137

I will get used to it, I`ve been taking photos for over 40 years & have owned in the region over 200 cameras. It`s just sometimes I do miss the simplicity of focusing with a rangefinder or split-image (& yes I know they`re the same but you get my drift  ) & using a meter needle or `Green For Go` LED


----------



## Tom Radford

mach 0.0013137 said:


> I will get used to it, I`ve been taking photos for over 40 years & have owned in the region over 200 cameras. It`s just sometimes I do miss the simplicity of focusing with a rangefinder or split-image (& yes I know they`re the same but you get my drift  ) & using a meter needle or `Green For Go` LED


Welcome to the 21st Century!







:grin:


----------



## mach 0.0013137

Tom Radford said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will get used to it, I`ve been taking photos for over 40 years & have owned in the region over 200 cameras. It`s just sometimes I do miss the simplicity of focusing with a rangefinder or split-image (& yes I know they`re the same but you get my drift  ) & using a meter needle or `Green For Go` LED
> 
> 
> 
> Welcome to the 21st Century!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :grin:
Click to expand...

I won`t be supprised to find somewhere in the D5000`s menu there`s a section on how to navigate a manned mission to Mars :astro: :lol:

BTW, I bet it won`t last as long as this old girl which is still capable of taking photos









*
*

*
Leica II (modified Standard) circa 1929 *










B)


----------



## mach 0.0013137

:book:  :wallbash: :taz: :crybaby:


----------



## chris l

"I bet it won`t last as long as this old girl which is still capable of taking photos







"










Until very recently I was using a 111 with a contemporary 35/2.5 Skopar. Amazing results!

Until I see a fifty year old digital camera still knocking out quality, I shall continue to believe that there's a huge planned obsolesence thing going on here...

And as for TTL metering; really Mach, where's the Weston? Using a Hurter and Driffield response curve, of course. And aiming for a gamma of .56.


----------



## mach 0.0013137

chris l said:


> "I bet it won`t last as long as this old girl which is still capable of taking photos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until very recently I was using a 111 with a contemporary 35/2.5 Skopar. Amazing results!
> 
> Until I see a fifty year old digital camera still knocking out quality, I shall continue to believe that there's a huge planned obsolesence thing going on here...
> 
> And as for TTL metering; really Mach, where's the Weston? Using a Hurter and Driffield response curve, of course. And aiming for a gamma of .56.


Aint that the truth :yes:

For some reason learning how to use the D5000 makes me think Zephod & Ford had it easy...

*"Every time you try to operate one of these weird black controls, which are labeled in black on a black background, a small black light lights up in black to let you know you've done it!"*

Zaphod Beeblebrox (Hitchhiker's Guide the Galaxy) 

But no matter, no fiendish jumped up calculator is going to get the better of this old hippy :feck: :tongue2:


----------



## BondandBigM

mach 0.0013137 said:


> But no matter, no fiendish jumped up calculator is going to get the better of this old hippy :feck: :tongue2:


:lol: :lol:


----------



## mach 0.0013137

BondandBigM said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But no matter, no fiendish jumped up calculator is going to get the better of this old hippy :feck: :tongue2:
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

I thank you 

I would like to add another quote from `The Guide` that I often feel is appropriate to designers of modern computerised equipment (which these days seems to be anything that requires electricity for power )...

*"A bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes." *









With apologies to any techno freaks who may happen to be members of the forum


----------



## chris l

I have long had a belief that I shouldn't own it if I can't fix it; getting difficult these days.....

God bless General Ludd...


----------



## mach 0.0013137

Well I`ve studied the manual plus the `Dummies Guide` & now have a better idea where things are & how to get them to work, unfortunately it`s not really helped me take better/sharper photos 














































All photos taken using either manual or program mode, spot metering with moveable narrow focus point, camera mounted on a heavy tripod with 2 second delayed shutter release.


----------



## pg tips

Mac they are stunning! How "better" do they need to be???


----------



## SharkBike

Looks good to me, Mach. :thumbsup:

The 710 has started pestering me for a "real camera" with "a big lense" like the one her girlfriend has. 

EDIT: Your photos reminds me I really need to add the PRS516 to my Wish List.


----------



## mach 0.0013137

Thanks guys, I still think I could do better so will keep practicing









& Rich you better hurry up if you want a new PRS516, they`re no longer made


----------



## diddy

mac,the're as good as anything seen on the forum.

:thumbup:


----------



## Guest

What lens and f stop are you using mach?


----------



## mach 0.0013137

diddy said:


> mac,the're as good as anything seen on the forum.
> 
> :thumbup:


Oh I don`t know, there`s lot of really good photographers on this forum







:notworthy:



BathTone said:


> What lens and f stop are you using mach?


I don`t remember, I was more bothered with ensuring the exposure and focusing were correct & the camera was steady :umnik2:


----------



## mach 0.0013137

mach 0.0013137 said:


> diddy said:
> 
> 
> 
> mac,the're as good as anything seen on the forum.
> 
> :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I don`t know, there`s lot of really good photographers on this forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :notworthy:
> 
> 
> 
> BathTone said:
> 
> 
> 
> What lens and f stop are you using mach?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don`t remember, I was more bothered with ensuring the exposure and focusing were correct & the camera was steady :umnik2:
Click to expand...

I forgot to mention I also was pre-occupied making sure that the relevant buttons/controls were pushed/operated correctly while holding up a dark jumper to cut down on unwanted reflections :sweatdrop:


----------



## mach 0.0013137

mach 0.0013137 said:


> I forgot to mention I also was pre-occupied making sure that the relevant buttons/controls were pushed/operated correctly while holding up a dark jumper to cut down on unwanted reflections :sweatdrop:


Mind you I did have some `help`...










Although I`m not sure my assistant quite got the idea 










Maybe we both need a little more practice...

















Just realised you asked about the lens, I thought you said shutter speed, the dangers of speed reading h34r:

The lens is a Nikon f3.5-5.6 18-55mm G VR :wink2:


----------



## minkle

A massive improvement Mac, well done.. :thumbup: they are superb


----------



## Sparky

Nice shots Mac!

Mark


----------

