# Curious Watch Problem - Lemania One



## Abbadon (Aug 30, 2011)

Good Morning,

I inherited a Lemania One military Chronograph when my father passed away, and have recently had it serviced, as it had been stopping frequently.

It runs well now, but only when not worn. When I wear it, it stops intermittently, and also seems to gain many minutes in a day if worn.

Its been back to be inspected by the same guy twice, re-adjusted, and on the bench it runs perfectly and keeps good time for the age and type of watch.

Can anyone shed any light on what might be the problem with the watch to cause this behavior?

I need some help pointing this chap in the right direction, as it feels like im taking up a lot of his time for no additional gains for him...

kind regards,

Andy


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Does it run while sitting face up? If so, see if it runs while sitting face down.

Later,

William


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## Mutley (Apr 17, 2007)

Abbadon said:


> Its been back to be inspected by the same guy twice, re-adjusted, and on the bench it runs perfectly and keeps good time for the age and type of watch.
> 
> I need some help pointing this chap in the right direction, as it feels like im taking up a lot of his time for no additional gains for him...


Welcom to the forum. :welcome:

No idea what the problem is but I would be inclined to find another watch repairer.

BTW get some pics of it posted


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## Roamer Man (May 25, 2011)

I know just one person who just can't wear any watch without it stopping. His body simply has to much 'magnetism', even for modern watches (incl.quartz). It used to be a common problem when I was a boy, which is why makers made a point of marking the dials/backs with the words 'antimagnetic'. Today we take it for granted, so no one bothers to mention it, but the problem still persists for a small minority of people.


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## Lampoc (Oct 31, 2010)

Roamer Man said:


> I know just one person who just can't wear any watch without it stopping. His body simply has to much 'magnetism', even for modern watches (incl.quartz). It used to be a common problem when I was a boy, which is why makers made a point of marking the dials/backs with the words 'antimagnetic'. Today we take it for granted, so no one bothers to mention it, but the problem still persists for a small minority of people.


You serious? I'm pretty sure that's a big myth. Antimagnetic watches are for anyone who works with magnetic fields (electronic engineers etc)... not 'magnetic' people.


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## Roamer Man (May 25, 2011)

Lampoc said:


> Roamer Man said:
> 
> 
> > I know just one person who just can't wear any watch without it stopping. His body simply has to much 'magnetism', even for modern watches (incl.quartz). It used to be a common problem when I was a boy, which is why makers made a point of marking the dials/backs with the words 'antimagnetic'. Today we take it for granted, so no one bothers to mention it, but the problem still persists for a small minority of people.
> ...


I'm deadly serious! It's simply not been a selling point since the mid-60s, but here's proof of what I say..an everyday watch dial from early 1960s to signify that the balance was made from the 'novel' non-ferrous (i.e.non-magnetic) metal.










Also 'shockproof' the same..










Since the mid-1960s all watches have been made using the 'Incabloc' type of jewelled balance staffs. My first Timex 'Mickey Mouse' watch was neither antimagnetic nor shockproof, let alone waterproof, and my brother couldn't wear one without it stopping within minutes of putting it on.

For people who have to work in very strong magnetic fields, watches are available where the manufacturers have to go a step further and enclose the movement in a special 'Faraday Cage'.


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Roamer Man said:


> Lampoc said:
> 
> 
> > Roamer Man said:
> ...


Lampoc's question/statement still applies. "Antimagnetic" watches were for people who worked around magnetic fields and electricity. Electric motors, radio equipment, certain types of machinery controls and so forth. I think the idea certain people couldn't wear a watch because they had some sort of "aura" was perpetuated by people that did silly things with their watches. I know of one person who would take their watch off at night and sit it beside a magnetic flashlight on their bedside table.  They refused to believe it was the flashlight and insisted it was something special about them.

Later,

William


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## Lampoc (Oct 31, 2010)

Cheers William! Yes, I was talking about the myth of 'magnetic' people, not the watches...


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## Roamer Man (May 25, 2011)

Lampoc said:


> Cheers William! Yes, I was talking about the myth of 'magnetic' people, not the watches...


OK, so why would you need an antimagnetic DRESS watch just to wear to the ballroom or restaurant?

Obviously you've never ever come across 'static electricity' from people? You've never taken off a jumper and heard the crackling sound of electricity? FYI it doesn't take much of a current to produce a magnetic field sufficient to magnetise a vulnerable watch. Why else do watchmakers have to de-gausse their screw drivers periodically? How do they get magnetised in the first place?

Static is everywhere and some people produce more of it than most, that's a fact. End of..


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Roamer Man said:


> Lampoc said:
> 
> 
> > Cheers William! Yes, I was talking about the myth of 'magnetic' people, not the watches...
> ...


People used to wear what we call a "dress watch" everywhere. Giant diver's watches were not the norm back then.



Roamer Man said:


> FYI it doesn't take much of a current to produce a magnetic field sufficient to magnetise a vulnerable watch. Why else do watchmakers have to de-gausse their screw drivers periodically? How do they get magnetised in the first place?


Repeated contact with metal objects goes a long way toward magentising a watchmaker's tools.

I'm not denying the cumulative effect of long term static discharges, but people forget the obvious. In the old days there were numerous unshielded magnetic fields. Electric motors, TVs, radios, speakers, light bulbs, toasters and on and on. Many people had no idea when they were exposing their watches to magnetic fields.

Later,

William


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## Worzel (Jan 12, 2010)

Don't know enough to say why some people kill watches, but my wife does. She wears them and they stop, I take a look and they start again. We have tried various mechanical watches without luck. Her Accutron is immune for some reason, as is her Seiko.


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## Abbadon (Aug 30, 2011)

William_Wilson said:


> Does it run while sitting face up? If so, see if it runs while sitting face down.
> 
> Later,
> 
> William


William,

I have just re-set it and set it running, around 1 hour ago, its still running in my drawer, face up, but has gained 5 minutes! Its almost as if after wearing for a few days, something re-sets and it accelerates, and that aspect of the problem remains on or off wrist.

Im sure if I wear it, it will stop again. I will let it run til tomorrow and see if it runs down the whole way, and then repeat with it face down.



Mutley said:


> Abbadon said:
> 
> 
> > Its been back to be inspected by the same guy twice, re-adjusted, and on the bench it runs perfectly and keeps good time for the age and type of watch.
> ...


Ill get some on to flickr or similar


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## Abbadon (Aug 30, 2011)

Images:



Lemania_face by Abbadon2001, on Flickr



Lemania_side by Abbadon2001, on Flickr



Lemania_back by Abbadon2001, on Flickr

hope you can get to those ok on flickr.

Also a video of the movement also via iphone - this was taken when I first had it back from servicing.






They were only taken with my iphone so not to an amazing standard!


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

That is a fine looking watch, and certainly worth the effort to make it work correctly, for a variety of reasons. 

Perhaps a tiny piece of foreign matter occasionally lodges on the balance spring and interferes with the time keeping. If that is the case your watchmaker may not be trying as hard as he should.

Later,

William


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## Roamer Man (May 25, 2011)

Worzel said:


> Don't know enough to say why some people kill watches, but my wife does. She wears them and they stop, I take a look and they start again. We have tried various mechanical watches without luck. Her Accutron is immune for some reason, as is her Seiko.


Thank you Worzel! Of course Accutrons and Seiko quartz's would be far less vulnerable to magnetism/static electricity - they don't have hairsprings and balances! William (et al.) should Google for details on 'Glycadur' and 'Etachron'.

Perhaps we can then all just move on..?


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## Roamer Man (May 25, 2011)

Roamer Man said:


> Worzel said:
> 
> 
> > Don't know enough to say why some people kill watches, but my wife does. She wears them and they stop, I take a look and they start again. We have tried various mechanical watches without luck. Her Accutron is immune for some reason, as is her Seiko.
> ...


Sorry, I meant Glycadur, Nivaflex, Nivarox and Anachron.


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

I agree that materials are used in watches that are less susceptible to magnetism. That does not seem to have a great impact on either of our view points, and does little prove or disprove anything.

Later,

William


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## Roamer Man (May 25, 2011)

William_Wilson said:


> I agree that materials are used in watches that are less susceptible to magnetism. That does not seem to have a great impact on either of our view points, and does little prove or disprove anything.
> 
> Later,
> 
> William


So would you at least concede that with two people occupying the same electro-magnetically ambient environment (e.g. Worzel and his wife), one stops a watch whereas the other doesn't? Doesn't this strongly suggest there is something 'different' with one of them?


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

Just to add my 2p worth,the Ladies watches used to struggle as the women had handbags and purses with large magnetic clips that could pull nails from floorboards................... And back then there were a lot more "unshielded" electrical items, such as radio's with speakersl, which people used to huddle round and listen to, and other electrical items..........

With regard to the watch, as it is a chrono, i would make sure that the idler wheel is securly away from the centre wheel when not in operation as this could cause a drag on the works, causing low power and small oscillations of the balance which makes the watch gain........ One common problem i keep coming across is the idler wheel for setting the time under the dial which becomes partially seized and causes a power loss, this often overlooked small wheel can cause big problems..

Loveley watch BTW


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Roamer Man said:


> So would you at least concede that with two people occupying the same electro-magnetically ambient environment (e.g. Worzel and his wife), one stops a watch whereas the other doesn't? Doesn't this strongly suggest there is something 'different' with one of them?


Yes, I will agree with that. What I am suggesting is that, in "real life" situations, the things people do, the way they do them and the places they go have an impact of which they are often unaware. The majority of people in the world aren't in a postion that allows them perform strict environmentally controlled repeatable experiments to determine cause and effect relationships.

Later,

William


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## Roamer Man (May 25, 2011)

harryblakes7 said:


> ... And back then there were a lot more "unshielded" electrical items, such as radio's with speakersl, which people used to huddle round and listen to the radio, and other electrical items...


I'm not sure that the shielding on electrical items is any different these days, Harry. 'Shielding' proper refers to the co-axially bound earth wire on TV and audio cabling etc., doesn't it? I'm not aware it's used elsewhere? Certainly not on electric motors and the magnets in any loudspeakers I've seen? CRT TVs probably produce the strongest magnetic fields domestically - at the neck of the tube controlling the electron beam.

I think people are confusing shielding with 'suppressing'. Back in the days of 'huddling around the radio', I remember cars were 'unsuppressed', so that every time a car passed down the street everyone's TV/radio went on the blink!

The cause were the tiny sparks at the brush/commutator, and the distributor contact breaker that were radiating frequencies which were picked up by the TV's antenna. Suppressing was a simple matter of fitting a capacitor into the circuit to 'suppress' the effect.

Nowadays of course, we don't huddle any more..


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Roamer Man said:


> I'm not sure that the shielding on electrical items is any different these days, Harry. 'Shielding' proper refers to the co-axially bound earth wire on TV and audio cabling etc., doesn't it? I'm not aware it's used elsewhere? Certainly not on electric motors and the magnets in any loudspeakers I've seen? CRT TVs probably produce the strongest magnetic fields domestically - at the neck of the tube controlling the electron beam.
> 
> I think people are confusing shielding with 'suppressing'. Back in the days of 'huddling around the radio', I remember cars were 'unsuppressed', so that every time a car passed down the street everyone's TV/radio went on the blink!
> 
> ...


Have a look at this link about magnetic shielding, it provtdes a few examples. Shielding.

Many normal household items are shielded, we just aren't immediately aware of it.

Later,

William


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

My aplogies to Abbadon. As you have likely gathered, these threads can sometimes go rather far afield. These sidetrips can be interesting thought, but we are still interested in your original reason for posting and hope you don't lose interest. 

Later,

William


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## Xantiagib (Apr 22, 2005)

Lampoc said:


> Roamer Man said:
> 
> 
> > I know just one person who just can't wear any watch without it stopping. His body simply has to much 'magnetism', even for modern watches (incl.quartz). It used to be a common problem when I was a boy, which is why makers made a point of marking the dials/backs with the words 'antimagnetic'. Today we take it for granted, so no one bothers to mention it, but the problem still persists for a small minority of people.
> ...


I know two people to which this happens to, don't know if its coincidence or not but they are both into meditation and tai chi and stuff like that.

they'll need a Rolex Milgauss... I suppose


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## Lampoc (Oct 31, 2010)

For a human to be able to damage a watch with their own magnetic field it would have to be much stronger than the earths magnetic field. Bear in mind that the earths magnetic field at the surface is millions of times more powerful than the human brain magnetic field. Also, the average fridge magnet is about 100 times more powerful than the earths magnetic field. If these 'magnetic' people make compasses go haywire when they use them, fair enough. If not, I would say it's down to how they use the watch and it's everyday proximity to magnetic objects.


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

Yep, just remembered this kid who could stick spoons on his chest as he was so magnetic!!!

and to answer Roamer man i was thinking of valves inside radio's and transformers etc.........

Nothing wrong with having a huddle or cuddle around a radio  just go to be with the right person 

Any chance of a pic of the lemania movement?


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## Roamer Man (May 25, 2011)

Xantiagib said:


> Lampoc said:
> 
> 
> > Roamer Man said:
> ...


Thanks Xantiagib, I'm gathering support gradually! You hit the nail on the head with the 'Yoga' thing. It's all in the mind over matter which possibly some people do unconciously without knowing it - and stop watches.

And..I just remembered a documentary on TV years ago which is surely a clincher. It was about this Russian circus performer who was a 'Magneto Man' and fakir. Among his array of amazing feats he could generate 1000s of volts within his body - at will. Sceptical scientists actually tested him. They lost. He could also put himself into a trance where his heart rate would drop to near-zero enabling him to submerse himself in a tank of water for an impossibly long time. He did a load of other amazing things too, like pulling a whole locomotive and train with wires actually pierced through his arm muscles!

BTW my best mate is actually an aikidoka - an aikido sensai (teacher). He too can alter his heart rate and blood pressure at will, but I don't think he has any problems with watches!


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

Roamer Man said:


> And..I just remembered a documentary on TV years ago which is surely a clincher. It was about this Russian circus performer who was a 'Magneto Man' and fakir. Among his array of amazing feats he could generate 1000s of volts within his body - at will. Sceptical scientists actually tested him. They lost. He could also put himself into a trance where his heart rate would drop to near-zero enabling him to submerse himself in a tank of water for an impossibly long time. He did a load of other amazing things too, like pulling a whole locomotive and train with wires actually pierced through his arm muscles!


I'd be grateful if you could provide some more details about this, so I can do some further research. It sounds like an episode of "In Search Of..." with Leonard Nimoy.

Later,

William


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## Roamer Man (May 25, 2011)

William_Wilson said:


> Roamer Man said:
> 
> 
> > would drop to near-zero enabAnd..I just remembered a documentary on TV years ago which is surely a clincher. It was about this Russian circus performer who was a 'Magneto Man' and fakir.
> ...


Well, it was just after the collapse of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s, and I'm not too good at remembering names I'm afraid. He may have been Ukrainian and spoke no English. I'm amazed he didn't go on a world tour, he would have become a household name. It was all filmed by British TV film crews and he was there for all to see. He was a 'fakir' but no faker, believe me. Piercing the body and feeling no pain or bleeding is nothing new, Indian fakirs have been doing it for centuries (laying on beds of nails etc).

Anway, we've drifted way off topic already, I think we've exhausted this one and I'm not going to knock myself out with this any more. I'm going to move on now...


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

I see, this sounds akin to the Amazing Kreskin.

Very well then.

Later,

William


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## Abbadon (Aug 30, 2011)

can anyone now recommend a different watch repairer for me that might yield me a result?

I dont really want to have to spend out another Â£200.00 on a second standard service seeing as its already had one, but I dont want it just gathering dust either!

Im in South Wales, but I guess it could be sent insured to someone who is good with Lemania's

Andy


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## Lampoc (Oct 31, 2010)

Hi again,

not used him myself but have only heard good things about Steve Burrage at Rytetime all over the different forums: http://www.rytetimewatchrepairs.co.uk/


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## DaveS (Dec 7, 2009)

Abbadon said:


> can anyone now recommend a different watch repairer for me that might yield me a result?
> 
> I dont really want to have to spend out another Â£200.00 on a second standard service seeing as its already had one, but I dont want it just gathering dust either!
> 
> ...


Hi Andy

You have a very nice Fleet Air Arm Lemania chronograph.

Your watch repairer, despite the magnetism debate, doesn't seem up to the job!

As suggested, I would send it to Steve Burrage. Steve will sort you out and won't cost you the earth.

Cheers

Dave


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