# It’s not about what you don’t pay........



## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

Paddling around in the shallows is an odd game, even wading in a bit deeper. Imho it's incredible the difference in quality that the same money can buy.

A discontinued Victorinox cheaper than an Ingersoll, Tissot cheaper than an Ingersoll........etc

An example

Sheer beauty....,



Sheer tat



Same price,

One of these three times as much as the other...



Definately not as simple as the more you pay the more you get 

Any examples of similar priced watches of wildly different quality ?

Anyone playing.

Cheers


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## Daveyboyz (Mar 9, 2016)

For me the obvious one is when someone wants to spend four figures on a brand new watch as opposed to an unworn condition pre-owned watch. It is an absolute no brainer to go for the latter as you will get so much more for your money and I can't see a drawback.


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## gimli (Mar 24, 2016)

Daveyboyz said:


> For me the obvious one is when someone wants to spend four figures on a brand new watch as opposed to an unworn condition pre-owned watch. It is an absolute no brainer to go for the latter as you will get so much more for your money and I can't see a drawback.


 Don't bother... They'll never learn. More pre-owned modern/vintage goodies for us! :tongue:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Is the heritage worth the extra ? :laughing2dw:


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

My best example is an Orient Maco with an MRP of £320 against my Parnis 200m diver costing £82. Don't get me wrong, the Orient is very nice, but really isn't a touch on the Parnis. The Orient has a mineral crystal glass, whist the Parnis a sapphire, the Orient has an inaccurate in house movement, whilst the Parnis has an accurate Miyota, the Orient has a painted bezel with a 60 click turn, the Parnis has a ceramic bezel with a 120 click turn. As well as that the strap on the Parnis is considerably better, and doesn't make a noise like the Orient.


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## Filterlab (Nov 13, 2008)

I'd have to say Seiko vs almost anything at the same price. They must surely lead the way in quality for money terms.

I grabbed an SNXS for £50 brand new, wore it a few times, marvelled at its obscenely high quality finish, and when I was done for it I sold it for £50. Great piece!


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## Steve D UK (Sep 28, 2016)

WRENCH said:


>


 Nice watch but give that bracelet a clean - it's well grubby.


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

Steve D UK said:


> Nice watch but give that bracelet a clean - it's well grubby.


 Get cleaning Wrench :thumbsup:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Steve D UK said:


> Nice watch but give that bracelet a clean - it's well grubby.


 Probably just wiped my nose on it prior to the photo.


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## Filterlab (Nov 13, 2008)

Daveyboyz said:


> For me the obvious one is when someone wants to spend four figures on a brand new watch as opposed to an unworn condition pre-owned watch. It is an absolute no brainer to go for the latter as you will get so much more for your money and I can't see a drawback.


 Indeed a good use of the money. The only thing I will say is that if one buys a brand new piece, it's history is guaranteed in as much as it's unlikely to have opened and messed about with.

I'm happy buying used, but it's nice to buy special pieces new.


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## Steve D UK (Sep 28, 2016)

I bought my Speedmaster '57 complete with box and papers when it was almost three months old. Still had over three years nine months guarantee. It had never been worn and all the stickers were still on the watch and bracelet. Saved myself exactly £1,250


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

The Minute said:


> My best example is an Orient Maco with an MRP of £320 against my Parnis 200m diver costing £82. Don't get me wrong, the Orient is very nice, but really isn't a touch on the Parnis. The Orient has a mineral crystal glass, whist the Parnis a sapphire, the Orient has an inaccurate in house movement, whilst the Parnis has an accurate Miyota, the Orient has a painted bezel with a 60 click turn, the Parnis has a ceramic bezel with a 120 click turn. As well as that the strap on the Parnis is considerably better, and doesn't make a noise like the Orient.


 Orient don't use inaccurate movements I currently have five of them two seconds a day is well within cosc standards.


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> I am not really understanding why anyone would claim a sub £100 Parnis is better than an Orient. Because the claim is patently absurd. The strap on the Parnis does not tightly fit the lug gap. I have never seen an Orient with that accommodation. I am not dissing Parnis..... Because if I won one in those arcade crane machines... i would not be crushed.... but they aint no Orient.


 Believe me, I know watches, and ignore what is written on the dial. The spec, the feel, and the accuracy of the Parnis knocks spots off of the Orient. Don't get me wrong, the Orient looks great, especially with the orange dial, but technically it's inferior. I wish you could see the two side by side


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## artistmike (May 13, 2006)

The Minute said:


> Believe me, I know watches, ... the Orient looks great, especially with the orange dial, but technically it's inferior. I wish you could see the two side by side


 To claim that an Orient is technically inferior to a Parnis is, as @JonnyOldBoy has said, "patently absurd". Could you please justify why you feel the movement in an Orient is "inferior"


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

Cognitive biases springs to mind.

And do you really know watches? You were unable to tell that your speedmaster was a very poor fake..


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## Padders (Oct 21, 2008)

The Minute said:


> My best example is an Orient Maco with an MRP of £320 against my Parnis 200m diver costing £82. Don't get me wrong, the Orient is very nice, but really isn't a touch on the Parnis. The Orient has a mineral crystal glass, whist the Parnis a sapphire, the Orient has an inaccurate in house movement, whilst the Parnis has an accurate Miyota, the Orient has a painted bezel with a 60 click turn, the Parnis has a ceramic bezel with a 120 click turn. As well as that the strap on the Parnis is considerably better, and doesn't make a noise like the Orient.


 Are you sure the Parnis has a Miyota movement, have you checked? I was under the impression that they used Seagull movements. Miyota are Japanese are they not? Parnis are made in China so it would surprise me if they were bringing them in.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Padders said:


> Are you sure the Parnis has a Miyota movement, have you checked? I was under the impression that they used Seagull movements. Miyota are Japanese are they not? Parnis are made in China so it would surprise me if they were bringing them in.


 Plenty being advertised as such, but without actually having one for inspection, who knows. Plenty of evidence throughout various "fora" for anyone bothered to look.










Not a "brand" that I'm particularly interested in, but a little homework does no harm.


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

Padders said:


> Are you sure the Parnis has a Miyota movement, have you checked? I was under the impression that they used Seagull movements. Miyota are Japanese are they not? Parnis are made in China so it would surprise me if they were bringing them in.


 A few do indeed sport Miyota movements, more are Chinese movements :thumbsup:


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## Padders (Oct 21, 2008)

Fair enough then. I would expect a Mioyota powered one to be an order of magnitude better than the Seagull ones, my opinion of which is rather less charitable than the @The Minute. I won't bore you with too much detail but of the 7 different Seagull Parnis models I owned, 4 failed catastrophically within a 2 year period. After a quick search, it seems Miyota may have manufacturing capacity in China also which would make sense from a supply chain POV. It remains to be seen whether Chinese built Miyotas compare to Japanese of course. Parnis are worth a look but don't be surprised if it ends in tears.


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

Padders said:


> Fair enough then. I would expect a Mioyota powered one to be an order of magnitude better than the Seagull ones, my opinion of which is rather less charitable than the @The Minute. I won't bore you with too much detail but of the 7 different Seagull Parnis models I owned, 4 failed catastrophically within a 2 year period. After a quick search, it seems Miyota may have manufacturing capacity in China also which would make sense from a supply chain POV. It remains to be seen whether Chinese built Miyotas compare to Japanese of course. Parnis are worth a look but don't be surprised if it ends in tears.


 They seem to be trying harder......the GMT is a risk worth taking :thumbsup:


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## Padders (Oct 21, 2008)

RWP said:


> They seem to be trying harder......the GMT is a risk worth taking :thumbsup:


 Not the one I had lol.


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

artistmike said:


> To claim that an Orient is technically inferior to a Parnis is, as @JonnyOldBoy has said, "patently absurd". Could you please justify why you feel the movement in an Orient is "inferior"


 When I got the watch it ran 30 seconds fast a day. After several attempts I got it down to 10 seconds, however, when I play golf it can gain a minute in 4 hours. The Miyota movement in my Parnis diver gives me no problems at all, although not as accurate as my Seagull movement watches.

I can only presume that those of you who don't rate Parnis watches may have owned them in years gone by. I am always astonished at how well finished they are when they arrive. My Parnis 200m diver genuinely is that far off of my CW C60-600 Trident. Like I said, a lovely sapphire crystal, 120 click ceramic bezel which turns like a top class watch, a comfortable and heavy strap, plus the Miyota movement. Some of the Parnis watches I have bought don't have great straps, although some have very good one's. I think a lot of Wiz's are anti any Chinese watches simply because they are Chinese. I remember when people had a similar attitude about Japanese cars, and now look :biggrin:


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

The Minute said:


> Believe me, I know watches, and ignore what is written on the dial. The spec, the feel, and the accuracy of the Parnis knocks spots off of the Orient. Don't get me wrong, the Orient looks great, especially with the orange dial, but technically it's inferior. I wish you could see the two side by side


 We'll that's your opinion but plenty will not agree with that.

Orient use an in house movement which is robust accurate and high quality, take one apart and service it then re assemble you will then have discovered how good they are that's what I did.

What quality Saphire does the Parnis have? Is it full saphire or coated?

Parnis quality control is variable some are excellent but some have no lube or are over lubricated and can be rather dirty.


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

PC-Magician said:


> We'll that's your opinion but plenty will not agree with that.
> 
> Orient use an in house movement which is robust accurate and high quality, take one apart and service it then re assemble you will then have discovered how good they are that's what I did.
> 
> ...


 Full sapphire with AR coating. I have to speak as I find, and even my Parnis watches with mineral crystal are pretty robust, and I don't think I have a scratch on any of them. That said, I do tend to treat my watches like babies :biggrin:

I don't want you to think that I don't rate the orient, in fact I own a few, but if you were to handle these two watches and look at them side by side, I would be surprised if you din't agree with me.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

The Minute said:


> I think a lot of Wiz's are anti any Chinese watches simply because they are Chinese.


 Not here. I have several Shanghai brand, hand winders. They have all been good, reliable and accurate. They are also a £25 watch and nothing else. Its like comparing "apples and oranges" enjoy wearing what you've got, a lot of the time I prefer to wear this out and about with smart attire.


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

The Minute said:


> Full sapphire with AR coating. I have to speak as I find, and even my Parnis watches with mineral crystal are pretty robust, and I don't think I have a scratch on any of them. That said, I do tend to treat my watches like babies :biggrin:
> 
> I don't want you to think that I don't rate the orient, in fact I own a few, but if you were to handle these two watches and look at them side by side, I would be surprised if you din't agree with me.


 Where is the spec derived from?

Always seemed a bit vague to me, aren't they made in various factories.

I have a Parnis moon phase but the movement is dry and needs a service to get a decent life span from it.

That will be attended to in the coming weeks.


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## martinzx (Aug 29, 2010)

Does anyone remember a member on TWF that banged on continuously about low end brands being better that other brands,? He even suggested an op to punch his wife in the face? Does it all sound familiar? He got banned ....

Is it deja vu or has he rejoined under a different name?


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

Padders said:


> Not the one I had lol.





PC-Magician said:


> We'll that's your opinion but plenty will not agree with that.
> 
> Orient use an in house movement which is robust accurate and high quality, take one apart and service it then re assemble you will then have discovered how good they are that's what I did.
> 
> ...


 The sapphire is sapphire not just a coating John


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> I am not anti Chinese watches, although I would never buy a modern one. But Orient watches are better made on pretty much every level. This is simply fact. It does not alter the relative value for money for both brands. If someone can not see the quality difference, then in my view, they are just not looking carefully or hard enough. Its nothing to do with WIS.... etc etc. Just observations.


 The strap on the Orient is lighter than the Parnis, and is noisy. The sapphire on the Parnis is beautiful, whilst the mineral crystal on the Orient is quite dull. The bezel on the Orient is 60 click, turns to easily, and is painted, whilst the Parnis is ceramic, 120 click and feels like a luxury brand when turned. Both have a nice 316L cases and similarly attractive detailed dials. In fact, bearing in mint the price, you would think the label is on the wrong watch


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

RWP said:


> The sapphire is sapphire not just a coating John


 Actually some do have a coating of sapphire and are not full sapphire.


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

martinzx said:


> Does anyone remember a member on TWF that banged on continuously about low end brands being better that other brands,? He even suggested an op to punch his wife in the face? Does it all sound familiar? He got banned ....
> 
> Is it deja vu or has he rejoined under a different name?


 Obviously not me, because I haven't been on here long. It's true I made a joke about punching the wife, but doesn't just about every man when they are in the local pub having a joke and a pint with his mates, unless of course you are one of those men who take the wife with them, in which case you don't know what you are missing out on :biggrin:

Secondly, I hope your not insinuating that I think all less expensive watches are better than more expensive watches, because that would be crazy. Have a look at the title of the thread. I simply reacted to the thread question, and gave an example of a cheaper watch being better value than it's counterpart.


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

The Minute said:


> The strap on the Orient is lighter than the Parnis, and is noisy. The sapphire on the Parnis is beautiful, whilst the mineral crystal on the Orient is quite dull. The bezel on the Orient is 60 click, turns to easily, and is painted, whilst the Parnis is ceramic, 120 click and feels like a luxury brand when turned. Both have a nice 316L cases and similarly attractive detailed dials. In fact, bearing in mint the price, you would think the label is on the wrong watch


 My Mako has a tight turning bezel.


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

PC-Magician said:


> Actually some do have a coating of sapphire and are not full sapphire.


 Some Chinese watches do indeed have sapphire coated crystal, but they are detailed as such. The watch in question is full sapphire.


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

The Minute said:


> Obviously not me, because I haven't been on here long. It's true I made a joke about punching the wife, but doesn't just about every man when they are in the local pub having a joke and a pint with his mates, unless of course you are one of those men who take the wife with them, in which case you don't know what you are missing out on :biggrin:
> 
> Secondly, I hope your not insinuating that I think all less expensive watches are better than more expensive watches, because that would be crazy. Have a look at the title of the thread. I simply reacted to the thread question, and gave an example of a cheaper watch being better value than it's counterpart.


 I assure you not all men make jokes about punching women, far from it. Totally lacking in manners, empathy, and integrity.


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> !? I think you will find the mineral is not "dull" , its just refracting light at different frequencies, giving it a certain appearance. Come on then boy genius.... if the Chinese Sapphire is sooooooo fabulous , why on Earth are Orient not using those for their watches , saving themselves in the grand scheme of things, a LOT of profit margin !?!?
> 
> The reason Seiko and Orient do not use cheap Sapphire is simply because its not good enough for their standards.
> 
> ...


 In China the materials and the labour are considerably cheaper than in Japan or Switzerland. The same reason why China can produce similar quality electrical goods to anyone else but at a fraction of the price. I have little doubt that the sapphire on Rolex for example is superior, but my point is that my Parnis watch has a better window than my Orient and represents better value for money.


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

RWP said:


> I assure you not all men make jokes about punching women, far from it. Totally lacking in manners, empathy, and integrity.


 We probably live in very different worlds, drink in different pubs, and have a very different set of friends. That doesn't mean we can't get on though



JonnyOldBoy said:


> You are missing the point. I don't think you know how Sapphire crystal is manufactured.


 I don't know how baked beans are manufactured, but it doesn't stop me appreciating them


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

The Minute said:


> We probably live in very different worlds, drink in different pubs, and have a very different set of friends. That doesn't mean we can't get on though


 Come on , How is abusing women funny?


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> You are missing the point. I don't think you know how Sapphire crystal is manufactured.
> 
> And so why aren't the Japanese buying their Sapphire glass from china ? any ideas ? Its because it will be substandard at the same price ....


 But I told you, the crystal on my Orient is Mineral, which on a £325 watch I consider a poor show.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

RWP said:


> I assure you not all men make jokes about punching women, far from it. Totally lacking in manners, empathy, and integrity.


 Daja Vu, again.


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

RWP said:


> Come on , How is abusing women funny?


 You appear to be one of the few politically correct people I have ever had to converse with. A joke is a joke, and the basis of the material is irrelevant. If a friend tells me he is going to get home and kick the dog, I may laugh, but at the same time I know he isn't going hurt his pet. If a friend tells me a racist joke, I don't think he is racist. I am guessing that you don't really do jokes !!


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Its because you know very little about watches. The orient watches are produced and marketed to a specific specification for various reasons. You seemed obsessed with the word "sapphire" whilst seemingly know pretty much nothing about the product. Cheap Sapphires made using the basic accelerated process are mainly used for Mobile phones and cheap watches.... and they crack VERY easily. This is because the covalent bonds are forced and the lattice structure is slightly unnatural. You can not cheat nature or science my friend.


 Having not seen the two watches together I can only presume your assumptions are based on the label. It is impossible for you to argue the point, as it would be for me challenge you about two of your watches I haven't seen. Believe me, if both names were removed from both watches, and I gave you the two to examine, you would chose the Parnis as a better time piece. However, you are convinced that the Orient has to be better because it is an Orient and Japanese, and the Parnis must be rubbish because it is Chinese. So let's forget about the sapphire if it upsets you. What about the rubbish lose fitting painted 60 click bezel on the orient, compared with the tight fitting 120 click ceramic bezel on the Parnis. Oh, and what about the Orient bracelet that sounds like a cow bell when I move my wrist. Nothing I can say will change your mind, so I strongly suggest we cease the conversation


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

The Minute said:


> You appear to be one of the few politically correct people I have ever had to converse with. A joke is a joke, and the basis of the material is irrelevant. If a friend tells me he is going to get home and kick the dog, I may laugh, but at the same time I know he isn't going hurt his pet. If a friend tells me a racist joke, I don't think he is racist. I am guessing that you don't really do jokes !!


 You haven't a clue. Not hitting women has nothing at all to do with being PC, and everything to do with morality and decent standards of behaviour. I don't do PC you don't do comprehension.


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## hughlle (Aug 23, 2015)

Speaking on behalf of someone else is never a way to win an argument 

And I will revert back to my previous point, I can't easily take your word on quality and attention to detail when you could not even spot that your speedmaster was a very, _very, _ poor fake.


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

The Minute said:


> Having not seen the two watches together I can only presume your assumptions are based on the label. It is impossible for you to argue the point, as it would be for me challenge you about two of your watches I haven't seen. Believe me, if both names were removed from both watches, and I gave you the two to examine, you would chose the Parnis as a better time piece. However, you are convinced that the Orient has to be better because it is an Orient and Japanese, and the Parnis must be rubbish because it is Chinese. Nothing I can say will change your mind, so I strongly suggest we cease the conversation


 Pointless arguing with Mr Mitty.

Some Parnis watches are pretty good for the money and in some cases they may well be better than a cheap Orient.

But I have to say that my two Orient Star watches are vastly superior to any Parnis watch that I have owned but then they cost condsiderably more, so hardly a fair comparison !!


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

RWP said:


> You haven't a clue. Not hitting women has nothing at all to do with being PC, and everything to do with morality and decent standards of behaviour. I don't do PC you don't do comprehension.


 But it's a joke. I suggest you watch some youtube videos of Frank Boyle telling pedo jokes, Jim Davidson telling jokes about black people, and even some of the off screen Jimmy Carr jokes. In the joke world absolutely nothing is sacred. Jokes are not meant to be taken seriously, that's why they are called jokes. If you don't understand jokes, just ignore them and read the bits about watches



odyseus10 said:


> Pointless arguing with Mr Mitty.
> 
> Some Parnis watches are pretty good for the money and in some cases they may well be better than a cheap Orient.
> 
> But I have to say that my two Orient Star watches are vastly superior to any Parnis watch that I have owned but then they cost condsiderably more, so hardly a fair comparison !!


 Like my Orient Maco that cost 4 times as much as my Parnis that is inferior. I should point out though, my Orient solar with a panda face is pretty faultless.

Please don't refer to me as a lair. You have your opinions, and I have mine. I have not resorted to slanderous comments about you, so I would appreciate it if you would reciprocate


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

hughlle said:


> Speaking on behalf of someone else is never a way to win an argument
> 
> And I will revert back to my previous point, I can't easily take your word on quality and attention to detail when you could not even spot that your speedmaster was a very, _very, _ poor fake.


 I told you, I had bought that watch some years ago when my knowledge was almost zero. From that point onward I had always considered it genuine. I suppose you have never been caught out in your life, so I congratulate you


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

The Minute said:


> Like my Orient Maco that cost 4 times as much as my Parnis that is inferior. I should point out though, my Orient solar with a panda face is pretty faultless.
> 
> Please don't refer to me as a lair. You have your opinions, and I have mine. I have not resorted to slanderous comments about you, so I would appreciate it if you would reciprocate


 slanderous comments about you - what the hell are you talking about?? I have said anything about you - the Mr Mitty comment was aimed at our resident troll JOB


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Does anyone have some paint I can watch drying :Snore:

Just to be clear this comment is not directed at any particular individual


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Does anyone have some paint I can watch drying :Snore:
> 
> Just to be clear this comment is not directed at any particular individual


 I am finding the chemistry lesson thrilling and most invigorating


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

The Minute said:


> Some Chinese watches do indeed have sapphire coated crystal, but they are detailed as such. The watch in question is full sapphire.


 Could you provide a link to the spec please.

I presume this is on the manufacturers website?.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Does anyone have some paint I can watch drying :Snore:
> 
> Just to be clear this comment is not directed at any particular individual


 It was aimed at me. :yes:

You know I'm always available for a friend in need. :laughing2dw:


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## Filterlab (Nov 13, 2008)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Does anyone have some paint I can watch drying :Snore:
> 
> Just to be clear this comment is not directed at any particular individual


 LOL! For a moment I thought I was reading TZ. :laugh:


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

WRENCH said:


> It was aimed at me. :yes:
> 
> You know I'm always available for a friend in need. :laughing2dw:


 My comment wasn`t aimed at anyone in particular but your reply inspired me to post this...










& I`ll save that video for sometime when I feel particularly stressed :laugh:


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

PC-Magician said:


> Could you provide a link to the spec please.
> 
> I presume this is on the manufacturers website?.


 Give it a rest will you


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

How about if you like Parnis buy one and enjoy........if you don't rate them don't buy one and enjoy.

Its not rocket science :crazy5vh:


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## odyseus10 (Jan 26, 2012)

Well having a search on the Park is site, they do appear to offer Sapphire e.g.

https://parnis.org/products/alpha-g

This Omega looking watch looks quite nice?..


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

The Minute said:


> Give it a rest will you


 :laugh:


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

RWP said:


> How about if you like Parnis buy one and enjoy........if you don't rate them don't buy one and enjoy.
> 
> Its not rocket science :crazy5vh:


 Yep. Got this for 66 quid delivered within a week. Honestly, if you don't like the watch (but you will), throw it away, because the strap alone is worth the money.


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## Filterlab (Nov 13, 2008)

The Minute said:


> ...66 quid... the strap alone is worth the money.


 LOL! I doubt that severely.

Grab yourself an Adirian-made or Pav-made strap for half that price and you'll truly see what a £35 strap is, then you can draw comparison to the cheap, nasty strap you get with a £66 watch. That strap is NOT worth £66, or £6, or 60p to be honest.

£35...


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

The Minute said:


> Yep. Got this for 66 quid delivered within a week. Honestly, if you don't like the watch (but you will), throw it away, because the strap alone is worth the money.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

I know I know I know but as hard as I try and I have tried I even had a couple of PARNIS. And they are great. But i'm shallow and never feel right unless it has a Rolex, Omega, Longines or Zenith badge on it. A bit like with cars I always start to itch unless its an S Class Merc, Jag XJ, BM 7 or Porsche. I grew up in the 80's you see. :swoon:


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## BlueKnight (Oct 29, 2009)

Nigelp said:


> .....unless its an S Class Merc, Jag XJ, *BMW M5* or Porsche. I grew up in the 80's you see. :swoon:


 Corrected that for you. :tongue:


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## Nigelp (Jan 28, 2015)

BlueKnight said:


> Corrected that for you. :tongue:


 Thank you :biggrin:

Or '89 M6


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## Filterlab (Nov 13, 2008)

Oh yes. My mate had one, boy was that aggressive to drive.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Does anyone have some paint I can watch drying :Snore:
> 
> Just to be clear this comment is not directed at any particular individual


 Please can I come Mach, I need some excitement! :to_become_senile:

(and my £12 HERC is so much better than the Parnis it's a copy of homage to )


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

Nigelp said:


> I know I know I know but as hard as I try and I have tried I even had a couple of PARNIS. And they are great. But i'm shallow and never feel right unless it has a Rolex, Omega, Longines or Zenith badge on it. A bit like with cars I always start to itch unless its an S Class Merc, Jag XJ, BM 7 or Porsche. I grew up in the 80's you see. :swoon:


 I owned 6 Kia cars consecutively, and they were great. Well priced and never gave me a problem between them. I then had a mid life crises and was desperate to own a Merc. I bought a 4 year old E Class from a Merc dealer with 32000 on the clock. I had it two years and it spend half of that in the garage being repaired. Lovely to drive, but the most unreliable car I have ever owned.


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## Buuk (Apr 15, 2017)

My latest acquisition (I'm ignoring the fact it's MOT time next week) must be worth a mention. Seiko SAA303J1. It's one of their Presage line, made in Japan, decorated 4R57 movement with power reserve, solid link oyster style bracelet with solid end links, sapphire crystal, exhibition case back, 42mm SS case…All for the princely sum of £197 from H Samuel :thumbsup:




























For roughly the same money I could have had a Daniel Wellington St Mawes Dapper. Slightly smaller at 38mm, considerably thinner at 7mm, powered by a 'Japanese Quartz Movement' (I'm guessing Miyota/NH35 etc), mineral crystal (again assumed as there is no mention of sapphire on the DW site, could even be acrylic??), leather band and that's pretty much it. £199 on the H Samuel site.


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## RTM Boy (Jun 1, 2011)

The Minute said:


> I owned 6 Kia cars consecutively, and they were great. Well priced and never gave me a problem between them. I then had a mid life crises and was desperate to own a Merc. I bought a 4 year old E Class from a Merc dealer with 32000 on the clock. I had it two years and it spend half of that in the garage being repaired. Lovely to drive, but the most unreliable car I have ever owned.


 Ah, the old myth; that German cars are reliable... https://www.whatcar.com/news/reliability-survey/

Mercedes-Benz is ranked in 23rd place. Want a good car? Buy a Japanese or Korean brand...or an Alfa Romeo! :jawdrop1:


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## Filterlab (Nov 13, 2008)

@RTM Boy Second that.

Two worst cars I ever owned (out of 21) were a BMW and an Audi. The two best? Nissan and Mazda.

I'd never have a German car again. The BMW almost bankrupted me it was so terrible, and absurdly expensive on parts.


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

RTM Boy said:


> Ah, the old myth; that German cars are reliable... https://www.whatcar.com/news/reliability-survey/
> 
> Mercedes-Benz is ranked in 23rd place. Want a good car? Buy a Japanese or Korean brand...or an Alfa Romeo! :jawdrop1:


 Could not agree more my Jap car is now 11 years old apart from front pads and an exhaust it has been bullet proof.


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Which Kia cars did you own ? Kia are a vastly improving car maker.....


 2 x Rio, 2 x Picanto, 2 x Ceed.


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Ah,,,, so the newer Kia models. Indeed you entered the frey with Kia just as they improved.... because their older cars.... were..... crap.
> 
> Their old people carrier - come - 4x4 was one of the worst cars ever made , only pipped at the post for the absolute worst by the SSangyong rubbish...
> 
> ...


 No, they are Ford prices now, but lovely cars all the same.


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> German cars are not famed for reliability , thats certainly always been Toyota.... German cars offer something else....
> 
> Of the 4 main brands , None stand out really for anything unless you pick very carefully....
> 
> ...


 Nissan were fine until renault got in on the action.


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

Quick word for Hyundai............reliable, cheap parts, and quite quick if you pick the right engine :thumbsup:


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## Filterlab (Nov 13, 2008)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> Nissan are shockingly unreliable , especially their variable belt drives ...


 I did 149k in mine with no problems. Only thing other than standard serviceables was rear callipers. That's it.


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

RWP said:


> Quick word for Hyundai............reliable, cheap parts, and quite quick if you pick the right engine :thumbsup:


 Yep, I have had two and loved them. Same company as Kia of course


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## Filterlab (Nov 13, 2008)

@JonnyOldBoy Yeah, that's the Renault influence. Mine was a 2005 Almera 136 DCi SXE. Rock hard mechanicals. Here it is on the last day I owned it, everything worked perfectly including the climate, electric sunroof and sat nav. Never gave me a moment's trouble. 










Having said that my wife has a 2013 Note N-Tec+ and it's perfect. Runs brilliantly and not a thing ever goes wrong with it.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

"Kia and Hyundai are both car makers that originated in South Korea, and as a result of Kia's bankruptcy in 2007 Hyundai now owns a part of their company. Many of the comparable models of each car maker share the exact same body structure as a result. However, Kia does still operate independently and has a separate design workshop, marketing, and branding."


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## Filterlab (Nov 13, 2008)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> LOVE the original Almera Advert with the guys pretending they were from the Sweeney... the best car advert ever....


 I haven't seen that, I'll dig it out on YouTube.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

The first Hyundai ever sold was the Hyundai Cortina, a rebadged Ford sold as a Hyundai in South Korea.


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## Buuk (Apr 15, 2017)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> THAT ,,,, is a thing of Beauty....


 Nah, it's not white with a green stripe down the flank :biggrin:


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

Buuk said:


> Nah, it's not white with a green stripe down the flank :biggrin:


 Lotus Cortina :thumbsup: . Bet they are worth a bit now.


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

JonnyOldBoy said:


> I have THREE local horror stories with Qashkais ( how-ever-the-hell-you-spell-it ) , all the same. Variable belt system failing within warranty and Nissan trying to pretend there was no problem inherently and the cars were "mis-driven" .. initially a £8k bill to fix.... One of the three took them to court and in the end they capitulated... put me off Nissan for life.... abosulelty shocking aftersales experience... and all three of these geezers drive cars like baby carriages...
> 
> No they are not the same company. They are completely separate. They just "cross-own" a minority of each others shares. They are not the same company.


 Same chassis, same engines, same running gear


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## Perlative Cernometer (Jan 1, 2018)

RWP said:


> They seem to be trying harder......the GMT is a risk worth taking :thumbsup:


 Got one last year. Finish is lovely, ceramic bezel looks and feels top notch, bracelet is nice quality with well fitted solid end links, clasp is..... trying to look like a real one and failing, and it gains 5 minutes a day. Bit of a lottery it seems.


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

Perlative Cernometer said:


> Got one last year. Finish is lovely, ceramic bezel looks and feels top notch, bracelet is nice quality with well fitted solid end links, clasp is..... trying to look like a real one and failing, and it gains 5 minutes a day. Bit of a lottery it seems.


 Mine is running consistently plus 2 seconds a day :thumbsup:


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## Perlative Cernometer (Jan 1, 2018)

Bet you got one of the upmarket models with lube in :thumbsup:


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## rolexgirl (Jul 17, 2010)

The Minute said:


> Obviously not me, because I haven't been on here long. It's true I made a joke about punching the wife, *but doesn't just about every man* when they are in the local pub having a joke and a pint with his mates, unless of course you are one of those men who take the wife with them, in which case you don't know what you are missing out on :biggrin:
> 
> Secondly, I hope your not insinuating that I think all less expensive watches are better than more expensive watches, because that would be crazy. Have a look at the title of the thread. I simply reacted to the thread question, and gave an example of a cheaper watch being better value than it's counterpart.


 No, every man [sic] do not make jokes about punching the wife, even those who go to the pub without their wives, idiot


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

rolexgirl said:


> No, every man [sic] do not make jokes about punching the wife, even those who go to the pub without their wives, idiot


 He's banned so no need to worry


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## richy176 (Aug 7, 2013)

RWP said:


> He's banned so no need to worry


 Well don't tell him the secret of being allowed back :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

richy176 said:


> Well don't tell him the secret of being allowed back :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:


 I think I only know the secret of temporarily being allowed back in Richy


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## yokel (Jul 30, 2017)

I'm not sure that the comparison of cars with watches is totally apposite.

The motor industry (with almost every male in the world interested to some extent) receives a great deal more, and much wider, publicity and critical public appraisal. Therefore I think you do mostly get what you pay for (but, I admit that, as the owner of two modern V8 BMWs I would be inclined to think that). No, they are not perfectly reliable -- one has had a new aircon condenser and a new propshaft (!!) in its first two years -- but they provide really nice places to be whilst sitting in our traffic. I still wouldn't swap for a Honda.

Watches are extremely arcane by comparison, and the surrounding group of commentators is much more compact and interdependent. I think that is why I have so rarely seen a really critical review of an expensive watch. This means that real VFM is less transparent -- especially as the key differences are much more subtle than with cars, the car industry does not apply huge "precious metal surcharges", and the percentage price differentials are so much higher.

Here's an illustration of the difficulty . . . . . . . .

If you prefer this










to this offering (with exactly the same functionality) from the factory next door










it's going to cost you (including the precious metal surcharge -- 100g of gold costs about £3,500) the thick end of £25,000 more (or, well over four times as much).

Yes, the former is more finely worked -- but I chose the latter for obvious reasons.


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## Ullevi (Feb 7, 2017)

PC-Magician said:


> Orient don't use inaccurate movements I currently have five of them two seconds a day is well within cosc standards.


 Quite.

I have 2 Orients and they both have been recently timed at - 2 secs/ day (different movements BTW) by myself over 10 days and combination of being on and off the wrist.

I can't think of anyone paying £320 for a Mako either.


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