# H Samuels pocket watches.



## hartley353 (Nov 8, 2013)

Recent acquisition was a H Samuels hunter movement. The movement is engraved Swiss made, and H Samuels Manchester. The movement is rather special with gold set jewelling and a snail cam micrometer balance adjustment. Having looked at many movements I am unable to put a maker to it. Did this Jeweller make special watches to order, any one know. The dial is in great condition with Roman numerals, and just bears the H Samuels Manchester legend. After a light clean and lube I have housed it in a spare Dennison GF case.


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## vinn (Jun 14, 2015)

what is a G F case?


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## hartley353 (Nov 8, 2013)

Gold filled case. A sheet of brass between two sheets of gold.


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## hartley353 (Nov 8, 2013)

http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t658/hartley353/DSC_0003.JPG-1_zpsdug7tbuh.jpg]


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Well, H Samuel is/was of course, the precursor of the current "H Samuel Ratner" group of High Street shops, however the H Samuel Manchester might mean this watch came from an earlier (better?) period when watches were put together for individual shops. :yes:

It was common for retailers to do this, just as you have, to use a movement in a case, both bought in from different sources with a personalised dial signature to suit.

You've done a good job there, looks the part indeed :notworthy: A great deal of research would be needed to narrow things down I would think, and I would doubt if the current H Samuel shop in Manchester would be able to help, but might be worth a try, one of the independent watchies here in Edinburgh has records back to 1887 or thereabouts?


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## Romantic Ape (Oct 30, 2015)

hartley353 said:


> http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t658/hartley353/DSC_0003.JPG-1_zpsdug7tbuh.jpg]


 She's a beauty. Congrats, man.


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## andyclient (Aug 1, 2009)

Very nice , i haven't seen a regulator like that before , i've got an open faced silver cased Samuel but the regulator is nothing like that


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## eri231 (Jun 28, 2015)

the movement was built by Tavannes / Cyma.
while the regulator was patented in 1872 by Francois Wilmot , some people call it Nautilus. but I do not know why.

Harriet Samuel store on the left side of the Buchanan street from St. Enoch Square Glasgow










regards enrico


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## hartley353 (Nov 8, 2013)

mel said:


> Well, H Samuel is/was of course, the precursor of the current "H Samuel Ratner" group of High Street shops, however the H Samuel Manchester might mean this watch came from an earlier (better?) period when watches were put together for individual shops. :yes:
> 
> It was common for retailers to do this, just as you have, to use a movement in a case, both bought in from different sources with a personalised dial signature to suit.
> 
> You've done a good job there, looks the part indeed :notworthy: A great deal of research would be needed to narrow things down I would think, and I would doubt if the current H Samuel shop in Manchester would be able to help, but might be worth a try, one of the independent watchies here in Edinburgh has records back to 1887 or thereabouts?


 Thanks Mel. I have a few watches from this Jeweller, and picked up another up market movement from them in the last few days, with micrometer adj on the balance, so will soon have a pair. Latest needed a bit of fettling but now running strong. Only problem I am running out of cases.



eri231 said:


> the movement was built by Tavannes / Cyma.
> while the regulator was patented in 1872 by Francois Wilmot , some people call it Nautilus. but I do not know why.
> 
> Harriet Samuel store on the left side of the Buchanan street from St. Enoch Square Glasgow
> ...


 Nautilus being a Sea Snail is fitting for a snail cam adjuster. Thank you for the identification, my best guess had been Thommen, but I hadn't been able to match it to one of theirs. I now have a second Movement similar to this. but only marked Samuels on the Barrel winding gear, and with a simpler micrometer adj balance.


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

The jewellery firm of H. Samuel has a long heritage and commenced as a manufacturer of clocks and silversmiths, but at that time the company did not trade as H. Samuel. The appearance of that latter company title commenced in 1862, when Harriet Samuel took over the business from her father-in-law and moved the firm to Manchester from Liverpool. It would seem that your rather beautiful pocket watch will probably date to a period between the arrival of H. Samuel in Manchester in 1862, and the move to larger premises in Birmingham, in 1912. It is interesting to note that Harriet Samuel was instrumental in expanding the retail side of the business, and this included a mail order side.

I reckon that watches were probably made in the earlier years of the Samuel concern, at least when Moses and Lewis Samuel were in business together in Liverpool, from 1821 until 1862, and it may be that the firm continued to make watches for a while after that change in ownership. However, it is also very likely that under Harriet Samuel, the company concentrated increasingly on selling the products of others, and no doubt they imported watches/movements from other countries such as Switzerland.


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## hartley353 (Nov 8, 2013)

The original Manchester shop opened by Harriet Samuels was mail order from my research, Her first retail shop was in Preston Lancs. From taking over her fathers Liverpool business she did well, the business launching on the stock Market after the 2nd WW., and now on many high streets.


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## hartley353 (Nov 8, 2013)

> The jewellery firm of H. Samuel has a long heritage and commenced as a manufacturer of clocks and silversmiths, but at that time the company did not trade as H. Samuel. The appearance of that latter company title commenced in 1862, when Harriet Samuel took over the business from her father-in-law and moved the firm to Manchester from Liverpool. It would seem that your rather beautiful pocket watch will probably date to a period between the arrival of H. Samuel in Manchester in 1862, and the move to larger premises in Birmingham, in 1912. It is interesting to note that Harriet Samuel was instrumental in expanding the retail side of the business, and this included a mail order side.
> 
> I reckon that watches were probably made in the earlier years of the Samuel concern, at least when Moses and Lewis Samuel were in business together in Liverpool, from 1821 until 1862, and it may be that the firm continued to make watches for a while after that change in ownership. However, it is also very likely that under Harriet Samuel, the company concentrated increasingly on selling the products of others, and no doubt they imported watches/movements from other countries such as Switzerland.


 Wow I should have waited just posted most of what you have said. Yes I have a couple of their watches made at Buren, stating that on the dial. This was just after the English watch making business had its legs smacked for saying English made, after setting up the foreign business to avoid regulations.


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## Always"watching" (Sep 21, 2013)

Just glad to be of service.


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

Being anal but the Nautilus isn't a sea snail at all. It's a free swimming mollusc/cephalopod - think of a squid with an external shell. The shell is similar in shape to the regulator on your pocket watch (which is lovely by the way) hence, I suspect, the name.

A Nautilus


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## pauluspaolo (Feb 24, 2003)

The pocket watch in question showing the Nautilus shaped regulator by the balance wheel


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## hartley353 (Nov 8, 2013)

pauluspaolo said:


> Being anal but the Nautilus isn't a sea snail at all. It's a free swimming mollusc/cephalopod - think of a squid with an external shell. The shell is similar in shape to the regulator on your pocket watch (which is lovely by the way) hence, I suspect, the name.
> 
> A Nautilus


 Thank you for the correction. Maybe Dr Dolittle and his transport fogged my thinking.


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