# Heads Up On Yet Another 7A38 Franken



## SEIKO7A38

At the risk of becoming boringly repetitive .... :yawn:

I thought it might be a good idea to keep these together (in future) under one '7A38 Franken' thread. ardon:

Besides, it might save a few folks having to keep sending me PM's.









To quote Shawn ('MrTeaTime') from last year:



> That's a wrong 'un that, Dude .... I can tell from here. :tongue2:


Listed overnight on eBay in the USA (with worldwide shipping offered) was this attractive looking variant:

*VINTAGE 1987 SEIKO (PVD) ANALOGUE QTZ 7A38-7280 CHRONO*



















Which isn't quite what it seems. :huh:

For one, thing, it's not 'PVD' .... but Seiko's Black Chrome Plating.


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> *VINTAGE 1987 SEIKO (PVD) ANALOGUE QTZ 7A38-7280 CHRONO*
> 
> Which isn't quite what it seems. :huh:


Because it probably started life as a black chrome plated 7A38*-7290*, which looks like this:










At some point, the standard white on black tachymeter dial ring has been changed for a silver one ....

.... which could have come out of any number of 7A38's, and it's black plated crown changed for a gold one. 

The saddest thing about this particular watch, because just about everything else:

bezel, watch-case, pusher buttons; bracelet, SQ clasp, 727L dial face; hands, etc ....

are all correct, is that it's lost it's original 7A38-7290 (or possibly 7A38-7295) case-back ....

.... to have it replaced with one from a (more common) Gold-tone creamy-white-faced 7A38-7280.

In case you're wondering what a Gold-tone 7A38-7280 looks like, a couple of correct recent examples from eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320509223154 and http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300409176353


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Because it probably started life as a black chrome plated 7A38*-7290* ....
> 
> At some point, the standard white on black tachymeter dial ring has been changed for a silver one ....
> 
> .... and it's black plated crown changed for a gold one.


To return this watch to it's original 'correct' 7A38-7290 configuration would be a relatively simple exercise. 

You'll need a p/n 84320843 Black Tachy dial ring (as used in the stainless 7A38-7270 and black 7A38-7290)

- or possibly get away with using p/n 84311023 (from the stainless 7A38-7020; 7A38-7029 and 7A38-7260) 

and a Seiko p/n *45M80EH1* black chrome plated crown (stocked by Cousins UK under their p/n *S15068*). 

Oh. And the correct 7A38-7290 case back:










.... which are pretty much 'unobtanium'. 

If you're a purist, it might be just as easy to change that '8' to a '9', as the rest of the stampings are *very* similar. :wink2:


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## Paul66

Well worth wile IMO keeping the 7A38 Franken thread going Paul







I looked at this watch too and noticed the crown and tachy ring didnt look quite right and had my suspicions, but wasnt quite sure! Now I now, cheers. Seems like too much hassle to restore it to its former glory! For me its a definate


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## SEIKO7A38

Paul66 said:


> Seems like too much hassle to restore it to its former glory! For me its a definate


Well worth the effort, IMHO, Paul - even if it means having the case-back re-stamped - especially if it comes cheaply.









This is a correct 7A38-7290:










.... with some plating wear on the bracelet, which I sold last October for Â£156. 

That 7A38-7280/-7290 'Franken' already has a first bid @ $50. It'll be interesting to see what it goes for in 4 day's time.


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## Paul66

.... with some plating wear on the bracelet, which I sold last October for Â£156.









That 7A38-7280/-7290 'Franken' already has a first bid @ $50. It'll be interesting to see what it goes for in 4 day's time.


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## SEIKO7A38

Paul66 said:


> .... it also appears to have less plating wear. Especially on the band.


They were about the same on the underside of the bracelet and clasp. Check the third of the eBay seller's photos.


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## Guest

I love these threads as I haven't got a clue when it comes to Seikos and it's really interesting reading, keep up the good work! :thumbsup:


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## SEIKO7A38

avidfan said:


> .... keep up the good work! :thumbsup:


Thanks. 



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> The saddest thing about this particular watch, because just about everything else:
> 
> bezel, watch-case, pusher buttons; bracelet, SQ clasp, *72**7**L* dial face; hands, etc ....
> 
> are all correct, is that it's lost it's original 7A38-7290 (or possibly *7A38-7295*) case-back ....


Just realized I did a little typo, back there :blush: - should read *722L* dial face.

I was just studying some photos of a 7A38-7295 (the only one I've ever seen, anywhere - on eBay in the Philippines) ....

.... and just figured out for myself (from the lack of 'Japan' at the bottom of the dial face) ....

.... and some almost illegible extra stamping in the middle of the (re-polished) case-back .... :umnik2:

That the 7A38-7295 was actually a Malaysian-built version of the 7A38-7290. So I'm still learning too.


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## jss

Please keep these warnings coming SEIKO7A38Fan. Iâ€™m looking for one of these and it really helps when you point out the dodgy ones. Thanks.

Is there a site for 7a38's that shows the different versions?


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## SEIKO7A38

jss said:


> Is there a site for 7a38's that shows the different versions?


No, not yet, anyway.









Probably the nearest (online, and on RLT) you'll find is Post #82, that I made in the '7A38 Vulcan' thread, last year:

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=42608&st=75

But, if you've got MS Excel on your PC, and want to see 'the definitive 7A38 list' ....

.... (with identifying details, but no photos, as yet) .... PM me your eMail address.

If not, click on this link to Seiko Oceania's (Australia) database: http://service.seiko.com.au/pls/seiko/f?p=104:20:4461192873310266 ....

.... and key 7A38 into the [Calibre] field and hit the 'Search' button. That'll give you about 95% of the variants.


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## Paul66

They were about the same on the underside of the bracelet and clasp. Check the third of the eBay seller's photos.

The more I look at the sellers photo's the better it looks! I better not look any more, it may end up costing me!!!


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## watchking1

> Besides, it might save a few folks having to keep sending me PM's.


Thanks Boss!!


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> That 7A38-7280/-7290 'Franken' already has a first bid @ $50. It'll be interesting to see what it goes for in 4 day's time.


Well, I guess we'll never know now. 

In case you missed it, this *was* the eBay listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120554523740

If you scroll to the bottom of the description, you can see that the eBay seller amended it during the night:



> On Apr-09-10 at 14:37:03 PDT, seller added the following information:
> 
> Old Title: *VINTAGE 1987 SEIKO (PVD) ANALOGUE 7A38-7280 CHRONO WATCH*
> 
> New Title: *VINTAGE 1987 SEIKO BLACK CHROME PLATING ANALOGUE 7A38-7280 CHRONO WAT*CH
> 
> Correction:
> 
> * This watch Tachymeter dial ring has been changed from black to white.
> 
> * The back case changed from 7A38-7290 to 7A38-7280
> 
> * This watch is Seikoâ€™s black chrome plating not PVD
> 
> * Black plated crown changed to gold crown


Pretty much in line with what I'd written in my first couple of posts. :smartass:

I suspect someone may have drawn his attention to this thread, which he acted on accordingly, and ....

.... then, sometime after that, a 'person unknown' made him an offer to end the auction early (off eBay). :lookaround:


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## Paul66

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> That 7A38-7280/-7290 'Franken' already has a first bid @ $50. It'll be interesting to see what it goes for in 4 day's time.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I guess we'll never know now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In case you missed it, this *was* the eBay listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=120554523740
> 
> If you scroll to the bottom of the description, you can see that the eBay seller amended it during the night:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr-09-10 at 14:37:03 PDT, seller added the following information:
> 
> Old Title: *VINTAGE 1987 SEIKO (PVD) ANALOGUE 7A38-7280 CHRONO WATCH*
> 
> New Title: *VINTAGE 1987 SEIKO BLACK CHROME PLATING ANALOGUE 7A38-7280 CHRONO WAT*CH
> 
> Correction:
> 
> * This watch Tachymeter dial ring has been changed from black to white.
> 
> * The back case changed from 7A38-7290 to 7A38-7280
> 
> * This watch is Seikoâ€™s black chrome plating not PVD
> 
> * Black plated crown changed to gold crown
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pretty much in line with what I'd written in my first couple of posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect someone may have drawn his attention to this thread, which he acted on accordingly, and ....
> 
> .... then, sometime after that, a 'person unknown' made him an offer to end the auction early (off eBay).
Click to expand...

Relisted here http://cgi.ebay.ph/V...=item1c11a1ce31


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## jasonm

I that is a great testiment to the seller that he relisted with the ammended information...


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## Paul66

jasonm said:


> I that is a great testiment to the seller that he relisted with the ammended information...


Yes. I think he can thank Seiko for the info.....must read the forum or know someone who does!


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## LuvWatch

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> At the risk of becoming boringly repetitive .... :yawn:
> 
> I thought it might be a good idea to keep these together (in future) under one '7A38 Franken' thread. ardon:


Good idea Paul, perhaps a sticky at the top of the Japanese page :bag:

Regards

Derek


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> In case you missed it, this *was* the eBay listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120554523740
> 
> If you scroll to the bottom of the description, you can see that the eBay seller amended it during the night ....
> 
> I suspect someone may have drawn his attention to this thread, which he acted on accordingly, and ....
> 
> .... then, sometime after that, a 'person unknown' made him an offer to end the auction early (off eBay). :lookaround:





Paul66 said:


> Relisted here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120554901041





jasonm said:


> That is a great testament to the seller that he relisted with the amended information...


Sincere apologies to the eBay seller, for my earlier incorrect assumption .... and posting without checking first. :blush:

My faith in human nature is temporarily restored. :angel_not:


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> .... and posting without checking first. :blush:


I also need to correct something else which I wrote earlier (in haste). 

I definitely already knew that the 7A38-7295 was an 'offshore-produced' version of the 7A38-7290 ....

For the simple fact that 'Japan' was missing from the printing at the bottom of the dial face, and also the case-back.

I'd studied the two low res .bmp images (of a case-back) which I had on file, zooming in, and convinced myself ....

That the well worn stamping in the middle of the case-back read 'MALAYSIA'.

But all I could really make out clearly were the first two letters 'MA'.

So today, I did some more research, specifically on the 7A38-7295.

There isn't very much comes up in the way of Google search results.

However, I found this thread (in Portuguese) on a Brazilian watch forum: http://forum.tempusvivendi.com.br/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=935

The OP (another Paul) included these photos of his pristine example.

(he had replaced the original black-coated bracelet with a leather strap):



















A Google / Babelfish (rough-ish) translation of part of his post reads:



> The one I bought has two references: 7A38 722S R on the display
> 
> (meaning dial face â€" compared to JAPAN 7A38 722L on a 7A38-7290)
> 
> and 7A38-7295 in the background beyond the radius of the stamp *ZFM*.


And there's the answer '*ZFM*'. :dontgetit:

With more googling, I'm now better able to decipher that case-back engraving.

I reckon that it actually reads (or once read): Product *Z*.*F*. *M*ANAUS Ind.

Meaning that the 7A38-7295 was not made in Malaysia (nor Manila) .... but in Seiko's plant in Brazil !!

Sorry for the off-topic ramble. fftopic2:

So, I can conclude, our eBay Franken '7A38-7280' definitely began life as a 7A38-7290 â€" not a 7A38-7295 ! :wink2:


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> I thought it might be a good idea to keep these together (in future) under one '7A38 Franken' thread. ardon:


I don't think there's really much need to comment on, or question JosÃ© Sotto's ('watchcooking') latest eBay listing:



> *RARE VINTAGE SEIKO QUARTZ SPEEDMASTER? CHRONO 7A38*












It obviously once was a 7A38-7070 'Diver', that he has breathed new life into. 

Like the man says: 'Replacement Bracelet - Incorrect Case-Back' (off a 7A38-7190).

Honestly described as always :thumbsup: .... though he didn't mention the bezel insert in his description, did he ? :lookaround:

Another thing, the 7A38-7070 didn't have a SpeedMaster bracelet clasp - probably thinking about the 7A38-6040. :wink2:


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Honestly described as always :thumbsup: .... though he didn't mention the bezel insert in his description, did he ? :lookaround:


Yes, of course he did:



> *BEZEL:** Bezel insert a replacement, customized**.*


How did I manage to miss that ?


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> I don't think there's really much need to comment on, or question JosÃ© Sotto's ('watchcooking') latest eBay listing:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *RARE VINTAGE SEIKO QUARTZ **SPEEDMASTER?** CHRONO 7A38*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It obviously once was a 7A38-7070 'Diver', that he has breathed new life into.
> 
> .... the 7A38-7070 didn't have a SpeedMaster bracelet clasp - probably thinking about the 7A38-6040.
Click to expand...

JosÃ© has since removed the word 'SpeedMaster?' from his eBay listing's title and description. :thumbsup:


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## Paul66

I say keep em coming Paul.... I find the Franken thread gripping! Its like a *WHO DUNNIT *and *WHO'S DONE WHAT*! Plus its an education in *WATCH UN-COOKING*....


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## Service Engineer

I now realise that a lot of these Seiko chronograph watches that are offered on Ebay and possibly other sites as well are not 'As they left the Seiko factory'. A lot of them have been modified but what I can't quite understand is the amount of scorn that's directed at these modified watches by some members of the forum. The same forum that has members heaping praise on some Seiko that's just been highly modified by a fellow forum member. Hasn't he/she just produced a similar Fraken watch ?

There was one modified watch featured recently that had been highly modified and there were members queueing up so say what a great job and how marvellous it looked. The modifications had been carried out with a high degree of skill but as far as the colour scheme was concerned it actually looked as if someone had been sick inside the case. It was hideous. I appreciate that ones mans idea of perfection isn't everyones but come on guys if it isn't nice to see then lets say so. We're quick enough to slate these Franken Seikos on Ebay.

I appreciate the people on Ebay are often attempting to pass off their watches as 'Genuine, Rare, Authentic, etc etc" which is naughty. A case of buyer beware I believe.

The point of this ramble is simply this. If you like the look of what's being offered on Ebay and you're prepared to pay the money then why not go for it ? So it's not as it left Seiko, so what. I recently bid on one of these fraken seikos and was outbid in the last few seconds by less than $3.0. If anyone has a working Seiko of the type featured in this posting I'd be very interested in buying it. Even if the chapter ring is dark grey and not black and the difference can only be seen under strong light with the watch held at a certain angle ! :thumbsup:


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## jaslfc5

Service Engineer said:


> I now realise that a lot of these Seiko chronograph watches that are offered on Ebay and possibly other sites as well are not 'As they left the Seiko factory'. A lot of them have been modified but what I can't quite understand is the amount of scorn that's directed at these modified watches by some members of the forum. The same forum that has members heaping praise on some Seiko that's just been highly modified by a fellow forum member. Hasn't he/she just produced a similar Fraken watch ?
> 
> There was one modified watch featured recently that had been highly modified and there were members queueing up so say what a great job and how marvellous it looked. The modifications had been carried out with a high degree of skill but as far as the colour scheme was concerned it actually looked as if someone had been sick inside the case. It was hideous. I appreciate that ones mans idea of perfection isn't everyones but come on guys if it isn't nice to see then lets say so. We're quick enough to slate these Franken Seikos on Ebay.
> 
> I appreciate the people on Ebay are often attempting to pass off their watches as 'Genuine, Rare, Authentic, etc etc" which is naughty. A case of buyer beware I believe.
> 
> The point of this ramble is simply this. If you like the look of what's being offered on Ebay and you're prepared to pay the money then why not go for it ? So it's not as it left Seiko, so what. I recently bid on one of these fraken seikos and was outbid in the last few seconds by less than $3.0. If anyone has a working Seiko of the type featured in this posting I'd be very interested in buying it. Even if the chapter ring is dark grey and not black and the difference can only be seen under strong light with the watch held at a certain angle ! :thumbsup:


i agree i think you need to buy a few wrong uns in youre life to learn a lesson.


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## Paul66

I appreciate the people on Ebay are often attempting to pass off their watches as 'Genuine, Rare, Authentic, etc etc" which is naughty. A case of buyer beware I believe.

You make some good points and some Modded watches look great *BUT SOME* sellers are not listing their watches as modded which may mean that some less knowledgeable buyers(like myself) may end up with the dreaded *FRANKEN*







when really what they wanted was an original....which is naughty!!! A case of "buyer better educated in 7A38s" I believe is much better


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## DaveS




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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Listed overnight on eBay in the USA (with worldwide shipping offered) was this attractive looking variant:
> 
> *VINTAGE 1987 SEIKO ANALOGUE 7A38-7280 CHRONO WATCH*





Paul66 said:


> Relisted here http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120554901041


Auction listing finished last night; bidding closing at a healthy *$224.72* :shocking:

Compared to the rather lower $131.50 and $134.77 I paid for two unadulterated 7A38-7290's on eBay last year. 

I think I'm going to have to start building a few 7A38 Frankens myself ! :naughty:


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## Paul66

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to have to start building a few 7A38 Frankens myself !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could work out very profitable going by this result
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'll pass on the expensive Frankens myself !!!
Click to expand...


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> I don't think there's *really much need to comment on*, or question JosÃ© Sotto's ('watchcooking') latest eBay listing:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *RARE VINTAGE SEIKO QUARTZ CHRONO 7A38*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It obviously once was a 7A38-7070 'Diver', that he has breathed new life into.
Click to expand...

Other than Holy Cr*p !!! :shocking:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370362587185 .... 'cos it just went for *$420* - Approximately *Â£272.62* !!!! :jawdrop:


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## Paul66

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=370362587185 .... 'cos it just went for *$420* - Approximately *Â£272.62* !!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is it with these Frankens!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats just Baanaanasssssssssssss
> 
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> By the way, good job with the Orient
Click to expand...


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## SEIKO7A38

Must have been a bad link. :huh:

Try this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370362587185


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## SEIKO7A38

And yet another 7A38 'Franken' was listed on eBay in UK, yesterday evening:

*GOOD MENS SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH QUARTZ DRESS WRISTWATCH*










(There's no mention of '7A38' anywhere in the seller's description, either).

It's an attractive looking watch (apart from the odd nick or ten)  .... But it's another Wrong 'Un.


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## SEIKO7A38

Effectively, it's a 'common or garden' Taupe grey / black subdial stainless 7A38-7020/-7029:










.... which has been fitted with the 700L dial face and hands from a stainless 7A38-7000:










.... and then fitted with a grotty incorrect Seiko bracelet of indeterminate parentage:










.... and it's already got 4 different bidders bidding on it in the first 24 hours of listing !


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## watchking1

This one by Watchcooking seems decent enough but wrong bracelet:

Link


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## Paul66

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> And yet another 7A38 'Franken' was listed on eBay in UK, yesterday evening:
> 
> *GOOD MENS SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH QUARTZ DRESS WRISTWATCH*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (There's no mention of '7A38' anywhere in the seller's description, either).
> 
> It's an attractive looking watch (apart from the odd nick or ten)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .... But it's another Wrong 'Un.


But another original* "ONE OFF" *so should go for a hansome sum!


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## SEIKO7A38

Paul66 said:


> But another original* "ONE OFF" *so should go for a handsome sum!


That one didn't get *too** silly*, fortunately, so hopefully people are following this thead. 

10 bids, 9 different bidders ending at *Â£63.55* - winning bidder sniped it with two seconds to go. 

Here's the eBay listing for anybody who hadn't spotted it: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230468968463


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## SEIKO7A38

Geez, these things are turning up so often, it's becoming a full time occupation spotting them ! 

A *VERY SUBTLE* 7A38 'Franken' was listed (10 day listing) on eBay in Italy earlier this afternoon.



> *Orologio Vintage Cronografo SEIKO*












At first glance, it *appears* to be a 7A38-727A (SAA132J) - in an obviously much later Seiko presentation box.

It's got the correct two-tone case and B1615C bracelet for a 7A38-727A, as such, and a silvery grey dial face  ....

But if you look closely at the second photo:










It's the *wrong* silver-grey dial face for this particular model of 7A38 !!

It's been fitted with the (minimally) lumed *710L* (XN18) dial face (and hands) ....

.... which would normally be found in more common two-tone 7A38-7190 (SAA054J) or 7A38-7280 (SAA120J).

The correct dial face for this 7A38-727A is a similar silvery-grey colour, with much shorter gold-plated batons ....

.... and no lume, and very slim gold/black non-lume hands. The correct dial number should be *7230* (XN14).

So, a *very* subtle 'mod', indeed - but a 'Wrong Un', nevertheless.









Seller's enthusiastic description (in Italian) as follows:



> Vendo fantastico orologio Cronografo SEIKO, anni 80-90, in buone condizioni, per la sua etÃ . Soprattutto il movimento, SEIKO 7A38A, movimento usato anche in orologi famosi come il Ferrari di quegli anni, quindi Ã¨ possibile usare questo movimento anche come eventuale pezzo di ricambio.
> 
> Cintirino acciaio Seiko satinato, ha perso la lucentezza del dorato con gli anni.
> 
> Il vetro nn presenta graffi,solo con una lente Ã¨ possibile notare un impercettibile micro graffio alle ore 10, non visibile senza lente di ingrandimento.
> 
> Fornisco anche di astuccio SEIKO. Per eventuali domande contattatemi.


.... includes a reference to the 7A38A movement being used in the Cartier Ferrari Formula chronographs.

Fortunately, the seller probably won't have much luck moving this on, with his opening bid price of *99 Euros*.


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> At first glance, it *appears* to be a 7A38-727A (SAA132J) - in an obviously much later Seiko presentation box.
> 
> It's got the correct two-tone case and B1615C bracelet for a 7A38-727A, as such, and a silvery grey dial face  ....
> 
> It's the *wrong* silver-grey dial face for this particular model of 7A38 !!
> 
> It's been fitted with the (minimally) lumed *710L* (XN18) dial face (and hands) ....
> 
> .... which would normally be found in more common two-tone 7A38-7190 (SAA054J) ....


When I wrote the previous post, so 'matter of factly', a week ago, there was another possibility I didn't consider. 

That was that the watch was possibly actually a two-tone silver-grey faced 7A38-7190 ....

but fitted with the (wrong) two-tone B1615C bracelet off a 7A38-727A (or a -7270).

Didn't have time then, but later sent the seller a message through eBay, asking the case-back number.

He replied with simply '7A39-7190'.

Later I checked on the listing, and he'd added *Modello 7A38-7190* into the middle of it ....

.... and at the bottom: *P.S. Spedisco solo in ITALIA* (shipping only within Italy).

I was looking at the photos again today, and although it was the bracelet that initially fooled me :blush: ....

.... into thinking that it was a 7A38-727A (because it looked very similar to a B1615C) - it actually isn't.

It is a similar-looking Seiko bracelet, but is narrower where it joins the watch case, and has a different fixing tube.










So it's still a 'Wrong Un', of sorts, anyway. :thumbsdown: And check out the sweep second hand finger tension spring. :thumbsdown:

Needless to say, no bidders, so far, with the rather optimistic 99 Euro start price.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> At first glance, it *appears* to be a 7A38-727A (SAA132J) - in an obviously much later Seiko presentation box.
> 
> It's got the correct two-tone case and B1615C bracelet for a 7A38-727A, as such, and a silvery grey dial face  ....


In case anybody was wondering (or cared) how I *nearly* got my wires crossed, here's how they should look:










Left: 7A38-7190 (SAA054J): 710L (mimimal lume) dial face with correct p/n B1412C bracelet.

Right: 7A38-727A (SAA132J): 7230 (Non-Lume, short baton) dial-face on p/n B1615C bracelet.

Hope that clears up my earlier confusion.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> *Orologio Vintage Cronografo SEIKO*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fortunately, the seller probably won't have much luck moving this on, with his opening bid price of *99 Euros*.
Click to expand...

As I'd expected .... there weren't any takers. :thumbsdown:

Seller has now re-listed the item with a rather more tempting (and realistic) opening bid price of *69* Euros.


----------



## Chromejob

Bravo for spotting these....

Watchcooking's bezels ... (gag) ... look like NOS or old stock of bezels like those on my H558 ... and look disGUSTing such an elegant model.

There orta be a lawr....


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Not so much a blatant 'Franken', but still a 'wrong 'un', nevertheless .... :lookaround:

Listed on eBay in the UK late yesterday evening:

*VINTAGE SEIKO 7A38-7000 CHRONOGRAPH QUARTZ*










The seller's description doesn't ring 100% true:



> FOR SALE IS THIS REALLY BEAUTIFUL AND *ALL ORIGINAL* VINTAGE SEIKO 7A38 CHRONOGRAPH DAY DATE ....


Because it *isn't* all original. :dontgetit:

It's fitted with the wrong Tachy dial ring from a gold-tone 7A38-7000. :thumbsdown:

It should be black with white lettering, not gold with black lettering (as fitted) ....

.... although the original Seiko catalogue illustrations aren't particularly clear:










This particular 7A38-7000 was 'cooked up' by JosÃ© Sotto ('watchcooking') in the Philippines, in August last year:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> This particular 7A38-7000 was 'cooked up' by JosÃ© Sotto ('watchcooking') in the Philippines, in August last year ....


And it's been 'doing the rounds' (in the USA) ever since  ....

Re-listed by eBay dealer 'Total Time' in August, only a week or so after he'd bought it:



















Re-advertised again on eBay by whoever bought it from 'Total Time' in September 2009:



















.... and so on, until it re-appeared on the SCWF Trading Post last month:










Current eBay seller appears to be using a cropped version of the SCWF vendor's photo. :naughty:


----------



## Johnny_E

Thanks goodness for this place - I have had that on my ebay watch list! Well spotted and thanks for posting this up. :thumbsup:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

It's actually *not that* bad (other than the incorrect gold Tachy dial ring), which sticks out like a sore thumb.

.... at least it's on the correct B1170 bracelet. :thumbsup:

There have been a couple (and there still is one) on eBay on incorrect replacement bracelets recently ....

.... which I will admit I hadn't bothered to flag up. :blush:

See: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320544487652

and: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320540279702

and: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110530114445

All this watch really needs to 'put it right' is the radial-lettered white on black Tachy dial ring. 

I wonder if I should consider breaking up my 'spares beater' 7A38-7000: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280475823135 :lookaround:


----------



## Chromejob

:rofl: (at sellers) from your exquisitely precise tracking of these.... Go on, brother, go on....


----------



## SEIKO7A38

David Spalding said:


> :rofl: (at sellers) from your exquisitely precise tracking of these.... Go on, brother, go on....


Cheers, David. :hi: I do my best to 'keep 'em honest'. B)



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> .... and so on, until it re-appeared on the *SCWF Trading Post* last month ....
> 
> *Current eBay seller* appears to be using a cropped version of the *SCWF* vendor's photo. :naughty:


In fact, I know the identity of the current UK eBay seller.









He's a prominent member, frequent poster and a *moderator* on *SCWF*. :shocking:

So he really ought to know better than misrepresent a watch he's selling on eBay.









Don't get me wrong .... I've got nothing against 'Frankens', when 'needs must' ....

But it really p*sses me off when sufficiently knowledgeable folk mis-represent such watches. :angry:



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> The seller's description doesn't *ring* 100% true:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FOR SALE IS THIS REALLY BEAUTIFUL AND *ALL ORIGINAL* VINTAGE SEIKO 7A38 CHRONOGRAPH ....
Click to expand...

Surprised nobody picked up on my intentional little pun.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Don't get me wrong .... I've got nothing against 'Frankens', when 'needs must' ....


.... or for that matter for one's own personal consumption and enjoyment.









In fact, after lunch, I decided to build one *for myself* :angel_not: - just for the sheer hell of it. :bag:

Remember that combination of a stainless steel 7A38-7020/-7029 with a 7A38-7000's 700L dial and hands ?

See post #36 on the previous page: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=53526&view=findpost&p=552631

.... and what I wrote in my post #49:



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> .... I should consider breaking up my 'spares beater' 7A38-7000: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280475823135 :lookaround:


Well it just so happened that I had an empty stainless 7A38-7029 case and bracelet lying around:










.... which I'd picked up on eBay back last April, and never got round to doing anything with. :blush:

I'd only just finished re-fettling the case, last weekend - incorrect odd gold-plated pusher replaced, naturally ....

.... I am currently wearing an absolutely stunning-looking 7A38 'Franken' as I type this. :wub:


----------



## LuvWatch

Good spot Paul, I saw that and was a little suspicious - I don't recall seeing an original 7A38 with contrasting dial and chapter ring.

As you say, someone who moderates on a Seiko forum should know better then express something as *all original* though he could not know !!

I am sure there are some good original 7A38's on eBay :angel_not:

Speak soon

Derek


----------



## Paul66

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> The seller's description doesn't *ring* 100% true:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FOR SALE IS THIS REALLY BEAUTIFUL AND *ALL ORIGINAL* VINTAGE SEIKO 7A38 CHRONOGRAPH ....
Click to expand...

Keep em comin Paul







I spotted this one aswell, with a little help and cross referencing from a very handy and expertly compiled excel data sheet I have.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Paul66 said:


> .... with a little help and cross referencing from a very handy and expertly compiled excel data sheet I have.


Well, I'm flattered, Paul :blush:, but I don't see how the spreadsheet could have helped. :dontgetit:

Yes, I've got dial face numbers and colours on there, but not the Tachy dial rings. 

Here's the relevant section:










But good to know that you're looking at it now, and finding it of some use, all the same. :thumbsup:


----------



## Paul66

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Paul66 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .... with a little help and cross referencing from a very handy and expertly compiled excel data sheet I have.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I'm flattered, Paul , but I don't see how the spreadsheet could have helped.
> 
> Yes, I've got dial face numbers and colours on there, but not the Tachy dial rings.
> 
> Here's the relevant section:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But good to know that you're looking at it now, and finding it of some use, all the same.
Click to expand...

Point taken







I think I looked at the excel and assumed as you hadn't mentioned Tachy colour that it was the same colour as the dial, very helpful omittance Paul


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Paul66 said:


> .... and assumed as you hadn't mentioned Tachy colour that it was the same colour as the dial ....


On *most* 7A38's, the Tachy dial ring is a *similar* colour to the main dial face colour ....

but what Derek wrote in post #53 isn't strictly true in all cases:



LuvWatch said:


> .... I don't recall seeing an original 7A38 with contrasting dial and chapter ring.


Think about the black Tachy dial ring with white lettering, against the Taupe-Grey dial on a 7A38-7029 for example.


----------



## watchking1

I just LOVE buying my watches from iceberg_slim791 :bull*******: :thumbsdown:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> In fact, I know the identity of the current UK eBay seller.


.... and I did eMail him, to inform him, as soon as I spotted his listing on eBay.

He's only just responded to my eMail, and added this footnote to his eBay listing:



> *Please note I have been informed by a expert on the 7A38s the inner gold tacho bezel is not original to this watch and must have been replaced at some time or another, my apologies there was no intention to mislead and thank you Paul if your information is correct which I am sure is knowing your reputation with all things 7A28/38.*


Shame about the choice of font colour :rofl2: .... but otherwise Well Done, that man ! :thumbsup:


----------



## watchking1

John, the seller, is a square bloke.

And just because he is a Seiko Watch Forum moderator doesn't necessarily make him the omniscient Seiko master.

 All that being said, all sellers need to be accurate as possible in describing the watches they are selling


----------



## SEIKO7A38

watchking1 said:


> John, the seller, is a square bloke.


Agreed. :thumbsup:



watchking1 said:


> And just because he is a Seiko Watch Forum moderator doesn't necessarily make him the omniscient Seiko master.


Perhaps he should stick to his *beloved* Bell-Matics. :lookaround:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

I've just noticed something odd going on - I think. 

When I started this sub-section of this thread (about John's 'wrong 'un' 7A38-7000) ....

The first post (or mention of this watch) was post #46, at the top of this page (4). :book:

Now it's post #44 near the bottom of page 3. Which means two posts have been deleted. :dontgetit:

I've checked pages 1 and 2, and they are exactly as were - as is the topmost post on page 3.

So for some unknown reason, someone presumably a moderator, has deleted two posts from page 3. 

What is going on ? :dntknw:

Edit: Skip - did you ask for one of two of your posts to be deleted ?


----------



## Paul66

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> I've just noticed something odd going on - I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I started this sub-section of this thread (about John's 'wrong 'un' 7A38-7000) ....
> 
> The first post (or mention of this watch) was post #46, at the top of this page (4).
> 
> Now it's post #44 near the bottom of page 3. Which means two posts have been deleted.
> 
> I've checked pages 1 and 2, and they are exactly as were - as is the topmost post on page 3.
> 
> So for some unknown reason, someone presumably a moderator, has deleted two posts from page 3.
> 
> What is going on ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Skip - did you ask for one of two of your posts to be deleted ?


Could be me







I messed up atleast one and deleted it!


----------



## jss

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Yes, I've got dial face numbers and colours on there, but not the Tachy dial rings.


Go on. add the info for the Tachy rings - you know you want to. :naughty:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

jss said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I've got dial face numbers and colours on there, but not the Tachy dial rings.
> 
> 
> 
> Go on. add the info for the Tachy rings - you know you want to. :naughty:
Click to expand...

Then, the next thing it'll be the sub-dial colours. Yeh, right. 

No, there's quite enough written detail on the sheet, IMHO, in it's current format. :tongue_ss:

What it really needs, and what I'd already planned to do with it, eventually :smartass: ....

.... is to embed a clickable thumbnail photo of every model, to the right of the comments column.


----------



## jss

Only joking mate, your spreadsheet has been a great help to me in deciding which 7A38 I want.

Please go ahead with the photo idea though, itâ€™ll make it even better.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

jss said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I've got dial face numbers and colours on there, but not the Tachy dial rings.
> 
> 
> 
> Go on. add the info for the Tachy rings - you know you want to. :naughty:
Click to expand...

Well perhaps I should have done .... :dontgetit:

An interesting new listing in the States popped up in my eBay searches overnight:



> *3 Seiko Chrongraph watches 7A38 and 7A48 Moonphase*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Buy It Now - US $195.00* (approximately Â£126.00)
> 
> *Who said you could never have too many watches, besides my wife...........*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> I'm thinning out some of the watches I'll never wear or use and at the moment I'm going through some of my Seiko collection. The three you see here are chronographs from the 1980s and are ones that I acquired for parts and extra movements and I have decided it's time to let them live somewhere else rather than hang on to them in hopes that someday I might need a part from one of them......*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> #1...7A48--White faced moonphase chronograph w/out the band. Everything seems to work as it should except the minute register (small dial @ 9 o'clock) does not advance. I needed it for the band, hence-----no band*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> #2...7A38 Gold faced chronograph. Everything functions as it should. Band and crystal show signs of wear...no where close to mint but a good wearable watch. Band fits a wrist about 7.5 inches w/no extra links.*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> #3...7A38 White faced chronograph. Everything functions as it should. Band and crystal show signs of wear...no where close to mint but a good wearable watch. Reset button (4 o'clock) action a little on the stiff side. Band fits a wrist over 7.5 inches w/no extra links.*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> I have done the best I can to describe the watches ....*


Oh really ?  I think I can do a little better. :naughty:










The all over gold-tone 7A38-728x on the left had me a little confused at first. :umnik2:

Initially, I thought I was looking at an example of the rare-ish 7A38-728A with the 710L dial face.

See right hand watch in this group shot from my own collection:










But if you look closely at the seller's photos, and this one in particular:










.... You'll see that the dial has 'Sports 100' printed on it.

It's actually the gold 703L dial out of a 7A38-702A or -702H. <_<


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> .... You'll see that the dial has 'Sports 100' printed on it.
> 
> It's actually the gold 703L dial out of a 7A38-702A or -702H. <_<


One like this:










So, what the seller, or previous owner has done, is to swap the dial face / movements about between the two watches.

The gold tone watch was originally a cream-faced 7A38-7280, like the one on the *left* of my group shot:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> So, what the seller, or previous owner has done, is to swap the dial face / movements about ....


Obviously, they've also had to pop the bezels off, and swap the Tachymeter dial rings to match. :hammer:

In fact, looking again closer, the Tachy scale ring on the cream-faced 7A38-702x is mis-aligned. :thumbsdown:

Easily enough remedied - and I really can't think why the seller didn't do it himself first. 

But then the last photo in the seller's eBay listing sums it up for me.


----------



## Chromejob

Hate to see a 7A48 in such a sorry state.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

> Hate to see a 7A48 in such a sorry state.


Well, at least what's there (sans bracelet) appears to be 'correct' (to my untrained eye), David. :lookaround:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Next up - also listed on eBay yesterday, a 'classic' Franken ....

From the workbench of 'Badingski', a.k.a. Ramoncito *Bangit* - somewhat aptly named :hammer:

.... who, in my limited experience, is one of the less than scruplous Filipino 'watch cookers'.



> *SEIKO 7A28 DAYDATE CHRONOGRAPH 2TONE QUARTZ MENSWATCH*


Note *7A28 - Day/Date* - there's no such thing - it's obviously a 7A*38*. 










.... as you can see from another of the seller's photos, movement is stamped 7A38(A):










.... but the watch has been fitted with an incorrect case-back off a 7A28-7040:










This watch once was a two-tone Gunmetal and gold *7A38-725A* ....

Which despite the seller's various :bull*******: claims of originality ....

Has lost it's original bracelet (though not uncommon with this model) ....

The watch case has been stripped of it's Gunmetal coating - though traces are left around the pushers.

Fitted with a wrong replacement crown, and incorrect sweep second hand (should be gold, not white), etc. etc..

Indeed, unless you win it for the opening bid price of $9.99 - one to avoid like the plague ! :thumbsdown:


----------



## Chromejob

I saw a 7T32 last night which must be a Franken, it has the same bezel as my Blingy, but the lower case and lugs are "worn" clean of their plating, resulting on a two-tone look. Blech.

When I click results and see certain countries for the seller, I just CTRL-W right away. I don't even look further.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

David Spalding said:


> I saw a 7T32 last night which must be a Franken, it has the same bezel as my Blingy, but the lower case and lugs are "worn" clean of their plating, resulting on a two-tone look. Blech.


Not necessarily a 'Franken', David.









That 7T32-6M10 you are referring to is also on offer by the same Filipino eBay seller 'Badingski' ....

But, there *are 3* genuine versions of the 7T32-6M10 - Your 'Blingy' plus two others:
























The 7T32 Ramoncito is offering actually looks like the real deal to me. 

Edit: Maybe the gold plating is worn / polished off the pushers on his. :shutup:



David Spalding said:


> When I click results and see certain countries for the seller, I just CTRL-W right away. I don't even look further.


Don't dismiss The Philippines as a source. It's a goldmine for second-hand Seikos ....

Some Filipino eBay sellers are more informed / honest in their descriptions than others ....

You've just got to be a bit careful what you're buying - and, as importantly - who from.


----------



## Chromejob

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> The 7T32 Ramoncito is offering actually looks like the real deal to me.
> 
> Edit: Maybe the gold plating is worn / polished off the pushers on his. :shutup:


Bingo. His pics of the bracelet had me wondering what I as looking at. Interesting combo. Not one I'd pick (those gold pushers on a SS case look dorky), but ... interesting as always. There seems to be no end to variations of design, style, and tastes that Seiko has catered to, eh?


----------



## SEIKO7A38

jss said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I've got dial face numbers and colours on there, but not the Tachy dial rings.
> 
> 
> 
> Go on. add the info for the Tachy rings - you know you want to. :naughty:
Click to expand...

And what appears to be yet another very subtle 'Franken' (if you can call it that) in a similar vein ....

This popped up on eBay in the States, yesterday ....



> *Top of the line Seiko chronograph watch from 1987*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seiko quartz chronograph watch from 1980s in very good condition. Watch has minor scratches on the backing and the band shows some wear. Back says 7A38-7280 and 7N4917, *Purchased new in 1987*. Gold colored watch with black hands and white dial with black accents ....


But there's something that doesn't *ring* quite true. 

In both of the seller's photos, the watch appears to be fitted with a gold coloured Tachy dial ring.

The creamy white faced 7A38-7280 should have a similar coloured Tachy dial ring.

I'd suspect this watch has either had a gold one fitted, at some point in it's life -

Or is possibly a combination of a gold-tone 7A38-7280 and and gold-tone 7A38-7289.

See my collection photo in posts # 65 and 66 (left and centre watches), and you'll see what I'm getting at.

The seller's somewhat ambitious opening bid price of *$149.99* should deter most savvy potential buyers. :thumbsdown:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

The next one falls into the category of 'non-standard variation', rather than 'Franken', per sÃ©.

I wasnâ€™t sure whether to even bother mentioning it  ....

But I didnâ€™t want fellow 7Axx spotters to think I was slacking, or that Iâ€™d had missed it.









Again, listed yesterday on eBay in the States:



> *SEIKO 7A38-726A WATCH ORIGINAL BAND VINTAGE RARE CHRONO*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent Seiko 7A38-726A watch *with an original Seiko band*.
> 
> Works great. Day and date, chronograph. See pictures for condition of crystal, case and bracelet.


The Seiko band part number being G1285C (actually stamped G1285.E â€" but trust me on this :smartass: )










And thereâ€™s the â€˜Gotcherâ€™ â€" the band may be 'original', but not original to this particular 7A38 variant.

It suits the watch - for obvious reasons, though. So call me a pedant if you like. :tongue2:

If you take the list of 7A38 case number / model codes on Seikoâ€™s database as 'gospel' :hypocrite: ....

There was only one 7A38-726A variant - a two-tone white faced version under sku # SAA102J

.... and it only came fitted with a calf leather strap â€" never offered on a bracelet.

This is Peter Bâ€™s 7A38-726A â€" the only example Iâ€™ve seen still fitted with the original Seiko strap:










Strangely enough the p/n G1285C two-tone stainless bracelet was only ever used on one model â€" the silvery grey-faced 7A38-7240 (a.k.a. SAA108J),

.... which shares a common watch case with the 7A38-726A (and the rest of the 7A38-726x sub-genre).

Hereâ€™s a 7A38-7240 â€" a well-worn, but original example that was listed on eBay in UK in July:










Iâ€™ve traded a couple of emails with the seller about this watch, and he says thatâ€™s how it came to him, from the original owner.

Iâ€™d be inclined to believe him. :thumbsup:

What I suspect happened was that when the original purchaser of this watch was looking at the available Seiko catalogue variations, he didnâ€™t see exactly what he wanted â€"

a white-faced stainless two-tone 7A38-726x on a bracelet. No such option existed. So he went into his friendly local Seiko dealer and said gimme that white dial on this bracelet ....


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Again, not a 'Franken' as such, but not exactly as it left Seiko's factory, either. :thumbsdown:

Thought this one might just be worth mentioning for the benefit of any less wary 7A38 collectors.









Newly listed on eBay (in Korea), less than an hour ago:



> *SCARCE SEIKO QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH D/Date 1/10 7A38-728A*












Includes these two photos amongst the 10 or so others embedded in the description:



















Description text is a little misleading (in what it doesn't actually say), and includes:



> Nice SS Case & Bracelet cleaned professionally
> 
> Comes with Original SEIKO SS Bracelet (brushed & polished) ....


What the seller 'eagertowatch' *doesn't* say in his description, is that he must have gone to a helluva lot of trouble :sweatdrop:

with the bracelet - stripping off the (presumably worn) gold plating from the centre links, before he polished them. :butcher:

Because the (p/n B1627C) bracelet on a 7A38-728A should look like this -

a mintish-looking example listed on Yahoo Japan at the end of last year:



















Caveat Emptor, as the saying goes. :cray:


----------



## watchking1

Not exactly original but I kinda like it in a Breitling shiny way


----------



## martinzx

Hi Gents,

I would just like to thank you guys for taking the time & posting a post like this with all the piccies, that help us make the right choice & not get caught out by these people who are only interested in making money,

Many thanksÂ

Martin


----------



## Chromejob

Little odd how the gold on the head just ends there ... I'm sure many wouldn't notice.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

As posted in another thread in this section:



watchking1 said:


> And another Franken?
> 
> My link
> 
> I could have swore a 7a38-7180 is black plated?





SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> And you're right, Skip. :thumbsup:
> 
> The seller, Mike Mounce also has that 7A38 listed on the Seiko & Citizen Trading Post.
> 
> Slightly lower price on there, too. :lookaround: I already sent him an email about it, yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Effectively, it's a 7A38-*7010*, fitted with an incorrect case-back off a 7A38-7180.
> 
> Also, although it appears similar, the bracelet isn't the correct one for a 7A38-7010, either.
> 
> Can we please try and keep such questions together, in the '7A38 Franken thread', instead of going fftopic2:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

O.K., Be careful of the next one :sly: - it's sure to catch out a few unwary buyers. :black eye:

It certainly had me scratching my head for a few minutes. :umnik:

*RARE SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH 7A38 SPEEDMASTER*










At first glance, it *looks like* a 7A38-7070, but look again at the sub-dial and sweep second hand colours ....










The second photo gives more of a clue - and I did actually message the seller to confirm this.

*It's actually a 7A38-7080 which is normally all-over PVD coated in Black Chrome.*

If you look at the side view of the bezel, you can see traces of the original coating - most of which has been painstakingly stripped off. :butcher:

The sub-dial colours (black on black) and (originally orangey-red) sweep second hand are other giveaways to it's 7A38-7080 origins.










But that 'SpeedMaster' signed clasp ? 

Well although the bracelet looks like that found on a 7A38-7070 (p/n B1241) or a 7A28-7040/9 (p/n B1075) ....

It's actually a very similar appearing bracelet (p/n GA55) off a 7A28-7050 - one of the Guigiaro models. :smartass:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> At first glance, it *looks like* a 7A38-7070, but look again at the sub-dial and sweep second hand colours ....


Funny thing is, that later this afternoon, the same seller listed what appears to be a 'pukka' 7A38-7070.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> The seller, Mike Mounce also has that 7A38 listed on the Seiko & Citizen Trading Post.
> 
> *Slightly lower price on there, too.* :lookaround: I already sent him an email about it, yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Effectively, it's a 7A38-*7010*, fitted with an incorrect case-back off a 7A38-7180.
> 
> Also, although it appears similar, the bracelet isn't the correct one for a 7A38-7010, either.


Noticed the seller has now dropped Buy-it-Now price from $175 to $120, in the hope of tempting a buyer. :lookaround:

He's also added this rider to his listing description:



> *Interested parties responsibility to ask all questions before bidding.*


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Next up - also listed on eBay yesterday, a 'classic' Franken ....
> 
> From the workbench of 'Badingski', a.k.a. Ramoncito *Bangit* - somewhat aptly named :hammer:
> 
> .... who, in my limited experience, is one of the less than scruplous Filipino 'watch cookers'.


Another absolute classic 7A38 'Franken' from the bench of 'Badingski' was listed on eBay overnight:



> *SEIKO 7A38 DAYDATE CHRONOGRAPH ALLSTEEL QUARTZ MENWATCH*


This one has got to be the combination of at least 3 watches. :hammer:










The watch-case was presumably once a 7A38-*702A* or 7A38-*702H* two-tone, with a gold face ....

The 'giveaway' being the gold-painted Tachymeter dial ring spacer - but I may be wrong about that. 

As is often the case, when used to build a 'Franken', it's been polished to within an inch of it's life ....

So just about all traces of the gold plating on the bezel and buttons has been obliterated. :butcher:










The (601L) dial face and hands are from the comparitively rare 7A38-*6010* black chrome plated diver ....

The '12' printed above the Seiko logo clearly identifies it as such. :smartass:










The bracelet is off another Seiko of the same period, but certainly not any 7A38 that I recognise. :umnik:










The case-back is off a 7A38-*7010* - as discussed a couple of posts earlier. 

Oh, and the movement looks like it's suffered from moisture ingress or battery leakage in the past, too. :thumbsdown:

So, all in all, definately one to avoid. :no2: ....

.... unless you're particularly looking for that rare 7A38-6010 601L dial face - about the only saving grace. :schmoll:

Just read some of the cr*p that Ramoncito churns out with every one of his listings:



> Each item I list is described to the best of my ability .... *Buy With Confidence*


Most of which is probably true  .... It's what he *doesn't* tell you that matters. :shutup:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> The bracelet is off another Seiko of the same period, but certainly not any 7A38 that I recognise. :umnik:


Just managed to make out the part number from that last photo - it's a Z1357(S) ....

As was used on quite a few 6309-xxxx and 7009-xxxx Seiko '5' models, such as this:


----------



## watchking1

> From the workbench of 'Badingski', a.k.a. Ramoncito Bangit - somewhat aptly named
> 
> .... who, in my limited experience, is one of the less than scruplous Filipino 'watch cookers'


A few, I say FEW, of the Filipino Seiko sellers are quite talented watch maker/ restorers. I currently have a 6309-7049 being modded into a ScubaPro 450 By Loys Watches. Weng, at Loys Watches, does excellent work. He's able to restore the cases, in particular, to Seiko specs.

And the turnaround time is way less than the ~ 6 months quoted here in the states and at half the cost. :clapping:

Now if he just carried some of the 7A38s we have been looking for !!


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> O.K., Be careful of the next one :sly: - it's sure to catch out a few unwary buyers. :black eye:
> 
> *RARE SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH 7A38 SPEEDMASTER*
> 
> At first glance, it *looks like* a 7A38-7070, but look again at the sub-dial and sweep second hand colours ....
> 
> *It's actually a 7A38-7080 which is normally all-over PVD coated in Black Chrome* ....





SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Funny thing is, that later this afternoon, the same seller listed what appears to be a 'pukka' 7A38-7070.


Both those eBay auctions ended earlier this afternoon ....

The 'Franken' 7A38-7080 (PVD stripped, fitted wrong bracelet) made â‚¬182.00 Euros: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320598696013

In comparison, the pukka 7A38-7070 from the same seller only made â‚¬122.00 Euros: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320598750843

Oh, well .... I tried. :wallbash:


----------



## Paul66

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> O.K., Be careful of the next one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - it's sure to catch out a few unwary buyers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *RARE SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH 7A38 SPEEDMASTER*
> 
> At first glance, it *looks like* a 7A38-7070, but look again at the sub-dial and sweep second hand colours ....
> 
> *It's actually a 7A38-7080 which is normally all-over PVD coated in Black Chrome* ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny thing is, that later this afternoon, the same seller listed what appears to be a 'pukka' 7A38-7070.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Both those eBay auctions ended earlier this afternoon ....
> 
> The 'Franken' 7A38-7080 (PVD stripped, fitted wrong bracelet) made â‚¬182.00 Euros: http://cgi.ebay.co.u...em=320598696013
> 
> In comparison, the pukka 7A38-7070 from the same seller only made â‚¬122.00 Euros: http://cgi.ebay.co.u...em=320598750843
> 
> Oh, well .... I tried.
Click to expand...


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Paul66 said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In comparison, the pukka 7A38-7070 from the same seller only made â‚¬122.00 Euros: http://cgi.ebay.co.u...em=320598750843
> 
> Oh, well .... I tried.
Click to expand...

Careful, Paul .... You've actually paid more than 50 Quid for one, for a change. :shocking: Nice snipe BTW. :thumbsup:


----------



## Paul66

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Careful, Paul .... You've actually paid more than 50 Quid for one, for a change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice spipe BTW.


Damn shill bidders!!! LOL!! I did say not that long ago that this is my fave 7A38 Paul and with abit of TLC it should come up OK. Bit more than I normally pay for sure but saves me having to keep looking for one.







Hopefully it's in good shape as it was described as in SUPERB condition!







Quite a bit of an exaggeration IMHO.


----------



## scottswatches

thanks guys - your passion for these is really outstanding (bordering on disturbing!) :notworthy:

Has anyone seen the two Paul's in the same room at the same time? Beginning to wonder if they are the same person....


----------



## SEIKO7A38

scottswatches said:


> thanks guys - your passion for these is really outstanding (bordering on disturbing!) :notworthy:


You ain't seen nuthin' yet. :man_in_love:



scottswatches said:


> Has anyone seen the two Paul's in the same room at the same time?
> 
> Beginning to wonder if they are the same person....


The name may be the same (and oddly, our surnames are uncannily similar too) ....

But in other respects, I have a feeling we're as different as chalk and cheese. :dntknw:


----------



## Paul66

scottswatches said:


> thanks guys - your passion for these is really outstanding (bordering on disturbing!)


Thanks Scott but the *other *Paul has to take full credit for this thread and the many other excellent 7A38 threads he has put up!











scottswatches said:


> Has anyone seen the two Paul's in the same room at the same time? Beginning to wonder if they are the same person....


Only once, here's the photo to prove it.







SEIKO7A38Fan is the one on the right


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Another absolute classic 7A38 'Franken' from the bench of 'Badingski' was listed on eBay overnight:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *SEIKO 7A38 DAYDATE CHRONOGRAPH ALLSTEEL QUARTZ MENWATCH*
> 
> 
> 
> This one has got to be the combination of at least 3 watches. :hammer:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, all in all, definately one to avoid. :no2: ....
> 
> .... unless you're particularly looking for that rare 7A38-6010 601L dial face - about the only saving grace. :schmoll:
Click to expand...

Auction ended earlier today - sold for $49 to a newbie Zero-feedback bidder. 

See: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=120630513780


----------



## watchking1




----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> An interesting new listing in the States popped up in my eBay searches overnight:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *3 Seiko Chrongraph watches 7A38 and 7A48 Moonphase*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Buy It Now - US $195.00* (approximately Â£126.00)
> 
> *Who said you could never have too many watches, besides my wife...........*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> I'm thinning out some of the watches I'll never wear or use and at the moment I'm going through some of my Seiko collection. The three you see here are chronographs from the 1980s and are ones that I acquired for parts and extra movements and I have decided it's time to let them live somewhere else rather than hang on to them in hopes that someday I might need a part from one of them......*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> #1...7A48--White faced moonphase chronograph w/out the band. Everything seems to work as it should except the minute register (small dial @ 9 o'clock) does not advance. I needed it for the band, hence-----no band*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> #2...7A38 Gold faced chronograph. Everything functions as it should. Band and crystal show signs of wear...no where close to mint but a good wearable watch. Band fits a wrist about 7.5 inches w/no extra links.*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> #3...7A38 White faced chronograph. Everything functions as it should. Band and crystal show signs of wear...no where close to mint but a good wearable watch. Reset button (4 o'clock) action a little on the stiff side. Band fits a wrist over 7.5 inches w/no extra links.*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> I have done the best I can to describe the watches ....*
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really ?  I think I can do a little better. :naughty:
Click to expand...

Belated footnote to that one.









Needless to say, that listing didn't sell - nor when the seller subsequenty re-listed it. :thumbsdown:

He seems to have got the message, though, because he obviously got his tools out :hammer:

and swapped the movements / dial faces / Tachymeter rings back between the two 7A38's ....

returning them to their correct original configurations; then re-listed them on eBay, seperately:

See: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160492095481

and: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160492095671

(Both listings ended yesterday).

Didn't do him a lot of good, though, because both (correct but tatty) 7A38's sold for only $36 apiece.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another absolute classic 7A38 'Franken' from the bench of 'Badingski' was listed on eBay overnight:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *SEIKO 7A38 DAYDATE CHRONOGRAPH ALLSTEEL QUARTZ MENWATCH*
> 
> 
> 
> This one has got to be the combination of at least 3 watches. :hammer:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, all in all, definately one to avoid. :no2: ....
> 
> .... unless you're particularly looking for that rare 7A38-6010 601L dial face - about the only saving grace. :schmoll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Auction ended earlier today - sold for $49 to a newbie Zero-feedback bidder.
> 
> See: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=120630513780
Click to expand...

And as Skip correctly hinted ....



watchking1 said:


>


It's back on eBay, as of this morning. Item # 120639930667 :thumbsdown:


----------



## dazaa

Didn't realise frankens would be a problem with seiko's, having bought lots of rado's which turned out to be pieces of rubbish(litterally) thrown togeather I know how horrible it feels to recieve somthing which isn't what it should be, so a massive thanks to 7A34fan for providing us with such informative posts :clap:

Feel like buying a seiko chronograph now LOL


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> scottswatches said:
> 
> 
> 
> thanks guys - your passion for these is really outstanding (bordering on disturbing!) :notworthy:
> 
> 
> 
> You ain't seen nuthin' yet. :man_in_love:
Click to expand...

I've been gradually building up a database of all the variations of Cartier Ferrari Formula 7A38's. There were a *LOT*. :sweatdrop:

This one popped up on eBay last week. It's certainly different. Very tempting - but, in my book, it ain't quite right. :thumbsdown:










I may be wrong, but looking at the slightly rounded off corners of the watch case ....

I'd suspect that it started life *black coated all over*, like this nice pristine example:










.... and that some watch-botcher has polished off all the remaining worn black coating. :butcher:

No bids though, and the auction still has two days to run, so maybe someone will pick up a 'bargain'. 

Edit: Seller would appear to be an online pawn shop. No box or papers offered either. Caveat Emptor !! :disgust:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> .... and that some watch-botcher has polished off all the remaining worn black coating. :butcher:


The sort of thing we're used to seeing on the more mundane Seiko 7A38's ....

This one's not so bad, but still worthy of a quick mention:



> *SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH 7A38-702H - ORIGINAL CONDITION*














> .... The case and bracelet have been ultrasonically cleaned, but not polished.
> 
> Collectors normally want their watches original so I left this one as found ....


Only it isn't original. :dontgetit:

As often is the case with two-tone 7A38-702x's, the (worn) bezel's gold plating has all been polished off.

Leaving those little gold 'dummy rivets'. The bezel should, of course, be completely gold plated all over.

Nicely done on this particular example - but definately *not* original.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

If anybody happens to fancy a 7A38 'Diver', I'd be a bit wary of this one, listed yesterday, on eBay in the States. h34r:

*Seiko Sports 100 Blk Chronograph Steel Men's Watch &Ban*

At first glance, it looks like an *almost* passable *7A38-705A* - quite a rare model:










But, it's been fitted with a silvery-coloured (non-Tachymeter scale) dial ring, of spurious origin ....

Aftermarket 'Sword' hour and minute hands, and it looks like the small lume batons may have been painted yellow. 

But the 'Gotcher' is in the seller's own description:



> *Seiko Stainless Steel 350XXX 7A0XX-71XX marked on the back case*


Understandable that the seller might wish to with-hold the full serial number ....

But ask yourself - why is he not disclosing the full Cal. / Case Model Number ?? :huh:

A serial number beginning 35 indicates a date of manufacture of May 1983 .... A few months too early for a 7A38. 

Going by case-back serial numbers witnessed to date, 7A38 production didn't actually begin till around August 1983. :smartass:

So I suspect, that apart from it's other 'cosmetic modifications', this watch has a wrong *7A28-71xx* caseback fitted. :hammer:










In case you don't know what a 'pukka' 7A38-705A should look like, there's one currently on Yahoo Japan.

See: http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e104074872



















That one looks pretty nigh on mint, and thus is reassuringly expensive - opening bid price is Â¥45,000 Yen (approx Â£340).


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> If anybody happens to fancy a 7A38 'Diver', I'd be a bit wary of this one, listed yesterday, on eBay in the States. h34r:
> 
> *Seiko Sports 100 Blk Chronograph Steel Men's Watch &Ban*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Seiko Stainless Steel 350XXX 7A0XX-71XX marked on the back case*
> 
> 
> 
> Understandable that the seller might wish to with-hold the full serial number ....
> 
> But ask yourself - why is he not disclosing the full Cal. / Case Model Number ?? :huh:
Click to expand...

O.K., so I emailed the eBay seller - but only once. Check the Q&A's. :read: He replied three times. 'Thanks'.


----------



## Paul66

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> O.K., so I emailed the eBay seller - but only once. Check the Q&A's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He replied three times. 'Thanks'.


Perfectly legit question, shame the seller could only come up with such a useless reply! Three times!


----------



## Chromejob

Paul66 said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> O.K., so I emailed the eBay seller - but only once. Check the Q&A's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He replied three times. 'Thanks'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perfectly legit question, shame the seller could only come up with such a useless reply! Three times!
Click to expand...

Be grateful for small blessings. I sent a "question" to someone selling a used Steinhart Ocean 1 Green, perhaps missing some links, for $399. I said, "FYI a brand new Ocean 1 Green from Steinhart is only $354 before shipping," to which the Fleabay Brutus replied, "so what's your point???" :duh:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

David Spalding said:


> .... to which the Fleabay Brutus replied, "so what's your point???" :duh:


Yeh - makes you wonder why we bother, sometimes, eh David ?


----------



## SEIKO7A38

This isn't a 'Heads Up' as such - more of a slightly belated post-script. :read:

This US eBay listing for an unusual 7A38 'Franken' ended last night: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230531858955



> *SEIKO 7A38-6109 ORIGINAL RARE CHRONO MINTY DAY DATE*












As 'Frankens' often seem to, whether I flag them up or not, it made a healthy final selling price - *$132.50*.

Apart from time, there were a couple of reasons I hadn't flagged it up while the listing was still current ....

The main reason being that I'd already posted about this particular watch in another 'Franken' thread.









Here, back in August: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=57525&view=findpost&p=584344 (post # 12)



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> In December 2008, I right-clicked and saved this photo - though I can't for the life of me remember where:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had no idea what it was at the time, and for some while after, the photo remained on file captioned as 'Unknown 7A38'. :duh:
> 
> Interestingly, if you check the original photo properties, it was taken on 23/06/2003.
> 
> I later figured out for myself that it was actually a 'Franken' (probably the first I ever encountered) ....
> 
> Being made up of: the 609L dial face and hands (minus lume) from a 7A38-6109 gold-plated 'blingy diver' ....
> 
> .... fitted in a 7A38-7060 stainless case (presumably once the white-faced version), on a non-original bracelet.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

As far as I was concerned though, something else of interest did come to light, out of this auction listing. :dontgetit:

You'll notice, if you checked the listing, that the seller included 5 various photos of the case-back.









While not all so legible, a couple of them clearly showed that it was fitted with a 7A38-6109 caseback ....










.... and that the serial number of the original 'donor' 7A38-6109 was *700009*.

Which got me thinking :umnik2: , and I must admit that it didn't click straight away. :blush:

Check out this archived photo album from SCWF: http://uaf13892.ddns.uark.edu/jgauch/photos/watches/chrono_quartz/7A38-6109/index.html

It's the original 7A38-6109 'Blingy Diver' - serial # *700009*:










These photos were taken by Hung Pham ('Time2Fly' on SCWF). He passed the watch on to an un-named collector in Florida.

Who, one assumes, must have created the 'Franken' from the original tired 7A38-6109 :hammer: - before selling it on again.


----------



## Paul66

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> This US eBay listing for an unusual 7A38 'Franken' ended last night: http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=230531858955
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *SEIKO 7A38-6109 ORIGINAL RARE CHRONO MINTY DAY DATE*
> 
> 
> 
> As 'Frankens' often seem to, whether I flag them up or not, it made a healthy final selling price - *$132.50*.
Click to expand...

Seems like a reasonable selling price to me. The watch has got to be worth $32.50(parts) and the rest of the selling price covers the *LABOUR *costs! Must have taken quite a while to sand down those rusty hands alone, shame they couldn't have done it without so much collateral damage to the dial! Never mind a small tin of white paint couldn't have cost much!


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Paul66 said:


> .... shame they couldn't have done it without so much collateral damage to the dial!


Did I miss something, Paul ?


----------



## jasonm

Damage in the right subdial?


----------



## Paul66

jasonm said:


> Damage in the right subdial?


And left, 12ish!


----------



## new2the7A38

<shaking head> You guys are amazing. What a group of "detectives"! Accessing information from 2003?? LOL...I'm afraid to buy a

Seiko from EBay without checking the forum first. IMHO...great job.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> If anybody happens to fancy a 7A38 'Diver', I'd be a bit wary of this one, listed yesterday, on eBay in the States. h34r:
> 
> *Seiko Sports 100 Blk Chronograph Steel Men's Watch &Ban*
> 
> At first glance, it looks like an *almost* passable *7A38-705A* - quite a rare model:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, it's been fitted with a silvery-coloured (non-Tachymeter scale) dial ring, of spurious origin ....
> 
> Aftermarket 'Sword' hour and minute hands, and it looks like the small lume batons may have been painted yellow.
> 
> But the 'Gotcher' is in the seller's own description:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Seiko Stainless Steel 350XXX 7A0XX-71XX marked on the back case*
> 
> 
> 
> Understandable that the seller might wish to with-hold the full serial number ....
> 
> But ask yourself - why is he not disclosing the full Cal. / Case Model Number ?? :huh:
> 
> A serial number beginning 35 indicates a date of manufacture of May 1983 .... A few months too early for a 7A38.
> 
> Going by case-back serial numbers witnessed to date, 7A38 production didn't actually begin till around August 1983. :smartass:
> 
> So I suspect, that apart from it's other 'cosmetic modifications', this watch has a wrong *7A28-71xx* caseback fitted. :hammer:
Click to expand...

No bids last time around - Quel Surprise  - and the seller has re-listed it earlier this evening. :thumbsdown:

However, it would appear that part of the description has since been slightly amended:



> *Aged on the bezel, minor scratch on the back case and on the band, **not the correct back case on this watch**.*


So, something achieved.


----------



## Chromejob

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Here, back in August: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=57525&view=findpost&p=584344 (post # 12)


FYI, you can always just link directly to the specific post by copying the link under "#12." Slightly better than "look for comment number...." :cheers:



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> ... No bids last time around - Quel Surprise  - and the seller has re-listed it earlier this evening. :thumbsdown:
> 
> However, it would appear that part of the description has since been slightly amended:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Aged on the bezel, minor scratch on the back case and on the band, **not the correct back case on this watch**.*
> 
> 
> 
> So, something achieved.
Click to expand...

Made me raise my eyebrows at the seller's other listings. Some "high end" vintage watches, also missing critical data.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

David Spalding said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here, back in August: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=57525&view=findpost&p=584344 (post # 12)
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, you can always just link directly to the specific post by copying the link under "#12." Slightly better than "look for comment number...." :cheers:
Click to expand...

Yes, I know, David.







In fact, that was my bad. :blush:

I did, of course mean to write 'post # *7*' (which I made on the *12*th August).









If you click on my link, it does actually take you where I had intended it to. :smartass:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

An interesting 7Axx Franken popped up on eBay in Italy, overnight ....

Not strictly a 7A38 Franken, but I thought still worthy of flagging up:



> *SEIKO SPORT 100 CHRONOGRAPH FASI LUNARI CAL.7A48 NOS*
> 
> *New without tags*























> *OROLOGIO SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH SPORT 100 CON GIORNO E FASI LUNARI DEL 1980, IN ACCIAIO LAMINATO ORO, IN ECCEZIONALI CONDIZIONI DI CONSERVAZIONE IN QUANTO MAI INDOSSATO (FONDO DI MAGAZZINO), ORIGINALE IN TUTTE LE SUE PARTI PERFETTAMENTE FUNZIONANTE.*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> IL QUADRANTE DI COLORE AVORIO.*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> IL CRONOGRAFO INVECE HA LA FUNZIONE SPECIALE AL DECIMO DI SECONDO.*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> LE DIMENSIONI DELLA CASSA SONO : mm 37 X mm.41.*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> IL PAGAMENTO IN CASO DI AGGIUDICAZIONE DOVRA' PERVENIRE ATTRAVERSO BONIFICO BANCARIO. (NO PAY-PAL).*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> E' POSSIBILE LA CONSEGNA E PAGAMENTO A MANO PURCHE' IN ZONA.*


But although all it's parts may be original - *they're not all original to a Seiko 7A48-5000*.









The case and bracelet are from either a gold-tone *7A38*-7280 (cream face) or *7A38*-7289 (gold face) ....

Like these (left and centre):










A gold-tone 7A48-5000 should actually look like this:










.... as posted by the other Paul, in this thread: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=54769

So it would appear that the cream-coloured 7A48 dial is actually from a two-tone 7A48-5000 (as on the right of Paul's 2nd photo):










Caveat Emptor 7Axx collectors ! :thumbsdown:


----------



## Paul66

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> An interesting 7Axx Franken popped up on eBay in Italy, overnight ....
> 
> Not strictly a 7A38 Franken, but I thought still worthy of flagging up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *SEIKO SPORT 100 CHRONOGRAPH FASI LUNARI CAL.7A48 NOS*
> 
> *New without tags*
Click to expand...

Good spot Paul







Shame this is a Franken as it's quite a good looking beast. Does make you wonder what happened to the donors as the parts used to "knock this one up" are in really good shape!


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Paul66 said:


> Does make you wonder what happened to the donors as the parts used to "knock this one up" are in really good shape!


Indeed, Paul. :disgust:

I'd suspect that the original gold-tone 7A38-7280/-7289/-728A may have suffered battery leakage during storage.

The case and bracelet look un-marked.

This 'Franken' might be worth buying for someone who's already got a 7A38-728x beater with a good dial / movement. :lookaround:


----------



## Chromejob

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Paul66 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does make you wonder what happened to the donors as the parts used to "knock this one up" are in really good shape!
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, Paul. :disgust:
> 
> I'd suspect that the original gold-tone 7A38-7280/-7289/-728A may have suffered battery leakage during storage.
> 
> The case and bracelet look un-marked.
> 
> This 'Franken' might be worth buying for someone who's already got a 7A38-728x beater with a good dial / movement. :lookaround:
Click to expand...

Well, if someone does that, send me the movement ... I loves these watches (only have one, what a sorry "collector" I am).

I mentioned privately that I think it actually makes a nice lovely watch, despite its provenance.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

They say that 'to err is human'. :blush:

So never let it be said that I'm not afraid to hold my hand up, when I get it wrong, occasionally.









In hindsight â€" this may well have been a bad call on my part:



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> I've been gradually building up a database of all the variations of Cartier Ferrari Formula 7A38's. There were a *LOT*. :sweatdrop:
> 
> This one popped up on eBay last week. It's certainly different. Very tempting - but, in my book, it ain't quite right. :thumbsdown:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I may be wrong, but looking at the slightly rounded off corners of the watch case ....
> 
> I'd suspect that it started life *black coated all over*, like this nice pristine example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .... and that some watch-botcher has polished off all the remaining worn black coating. :butcher:
> 
> No bids though, and the auction still has two days to run, so maybe someone will pick up a 'bargain'.


At the time I posted, that was the first example of this particular variation of Cartier Ferrari case finishes, I'd come across.

Still strikes me as an odd combination â€" stainless watch case; gold plated crown and pushers and a black chrome bezel.

But I suspect now that it was probably genuine â€" and just polished up slightly from being worn.

More recently, I've had another similar example on my eBay watching page: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=11063190307

The auction has just ended after 9 bids placed at - *â‚¬500* Euros. Same watch head, but on a (totally) stainless bracelet:










Seems the (one-time available) permutations of these things must be almost infinite. 

So, until I know better, I'll stick *strictly* to spouting off about Seiko 7A38â€™s (and Frankens of them) in the future. :smartass:

Footnote: That mis-called (non)'Franken' only had one bid, and sold for the opening bid price of only *$250*.

So somebody out there *did* get themselves something of a bargain, in terms of a Cartier Ferrari Formula. :taz:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> If anybody happens to fancy a 7A38 'Diver', I'd be a bit wary of this one, listed yesterday, on eBay in the States. h34r:
> 
> *Seiko Sports 100 Blk Chronograph Steel Men's Watch &Ban*
> 
> At first glance, it looks like an *almost* passable *7A38-705A* - quite a rare model:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, it's been fitted with a silvery-coloured (non-Tachymeter scale) dial ring, of spurious origin ....
> 
> Aftermarket 'Sword' hour and minute hands, and it looks like the small lume batons may have been painted yellow.
> 
> But the 'Gotcher' is in the seller's own description:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Seiko Stainless Steel 350XXX 7A0XX-71XX marked on the back case*
> 
> 
> 
> Understandable that the seller might wish to with-hold the full serial number ....
> 
> But ask yourself - why is he not disclosing the full Cal. / Case Model Number ??
> 
> A serial number beginning 35 indicates a date of manufacture of May 1983 .... A few months too early for a 7A38.
> 
> Going by case-back serial numbers witnessed to date, 7A38 production didn't actually begin till around August 1983.
> 
> So I suspect, that apart from it's other 'cosmetic modifications', this watch has a wrong *7A28-7xxx* caseback fitted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No bids last time around - Quel Surprise  - and the seller has re-listed it earlier this evening. :thumbsdown:
Click to expand...

Time for an update, and a quick footnote to this one. ardon:

The (original) seller re-listed it on eBay yet again, and it eventually sold on 1st January for $109.00.

See: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330513698360&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_2370wt_934

It's just re-appeared on Yahoo Japan Auctions. :aikido:

See: http://page11.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/n90811451



> *ã‚»ã‚¤ã‚³ãƒ¼7A38ã‚¯ãƒ­ãƒŽã‚°ãƒ©ãƒ•ï¼ˆæ¤œã‚¹ãƒ"ãƒ¼ãƒ‰ãƒžã‚¹ã‚¿ãƒ¼7A28ã‚¸ã‚¦ã‚¸ã‚¢ãƒ¼ãƒ­*












Looks slightly better in this set of photos, but is still very much the same 'Franken'. :hammer:

The seller 'yamanoteeede2006' appears to fancy himself as something of a wheeler-dealer ....

I've seen him buy 'iffy' 7A38's before, only to resell them on Yahoo Japan, on a number of occasions.









At least he included a clear shot of the case-back in his Yahoo Japan listing:










As you can see, the case-back now fitted came from a *7A28*-7039, but someone has attempted to erase the '2'. :butcher:

Edit: Checking that serial number - 2D1462 (December 1982) - and the lack of wave logo, the case-back has been changed yet again.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

At the risk of repeating myself  - believe me, some of this stuff gets just as boring for me :yawn: ....

Very much of the same ilk as the previous one, which I flagged up at the top of page 6 of this thread ....

See: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=53526&st=75



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Again, not a 'Franken' as such, but not exactly as it left Seiko's factory, either. :thumbsdown:
> 
> Thought this one might just be worth mentioning for the benefit of any less wary 7A38 collectors.


Listed overnight, on eBay in the Philippines by the reknowned Seiko Franken builder 'badingski':



> *SEIKO 7A38 DAYDATE CHRONOGRAPH 2TONE QUARTZ MENSWATCH*












From seller's listing description:



> *BRACELET:* ORIGINAL SEIKO STAINLESS STEEL BAND. FITS 6.4 WRIST,


The bracelet on this two-tone watch should also be two-tone, as per the previous example I flagged at the top of page 6.

It's obviously fitted with the correct p/n B1627.E bracelet ....

But either a two-tone bracelet that has had the remaining traces of (presumably badly worn) gold plating polished off :butcher:

.... or possibly the stainless version of the same bracelet taken off another 7A38-728x.

Either way, it should look like this:










(More photos, courtesey of Hung Pham 'Time2Fly' on SCWF, here: http://members.cox.net/watches-2/7A38_7280.html )

Looking more closely at the seller's other photos, I wouldn't be surprised if the bezel and pushers had been re-plated.


----------



## Paul66

Looks like the hour hand may have had a "drop or two" of paint aswell. There's hardly any loom left on the thing!


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Paul66 said:


> Looks like the hour hand may have had a "drop or two" of paint aswell. There's hardly any loom left on the thing!


Er, maybe not, Paul.  Go check the seller's other listing photos. :kewlpics:

I think you'll find it's actually the tail of the sweep second hand, obscuring the hour hand in that particular photo.









Gotta give the guy some credit. :lookaround: I mean, he *is* getting better. :notworthy: :rofl2:

This is another well-botched two-tone 7A38-7280 he listed on eBay in March 2010 (before I started this thread):










Apart from being polished all over (but still looking dirty) - note the 'subtly recessed' replacement crown. :hammer:


----------



## Paul66

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Paul66 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like the hour hand may have had a "drop or two" of paint aswell. There's hardly any loom left on the thing!
> 
> 
> 
> Er, maybe not, Paul.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go check the seller's other listing photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you'll find it's actually the tail of the sweep second hand, obscuring the hour hand in that particular photo.
Click to expand...

Doh!!!! I know! "I should have gone to Specsavers"


----------



## SEIKO7A38

B) :smoke: :umnik2: :nerd:  :cool2: :rockon: :grin:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

I know how some of you guys especially seem to like the 'Divers' variants of the 7A38's. :man_in_love:

Even if they appear to be *a bit* wabi'd. 

So be *very careful* to avoid this one, :schmoll: listed overnight on eBay in the States. :thumbsdown:

*Vintage Seiko Quartz Chronograph with day date*






























> Here is a nice Seiko Chronograph from the 80's. It is sold as is since the chronograph function doesn't work properly. The watch keeps excellent time and the day/date function work as they should, but the chronograph function is not reliable. One day when I was working in the yard I looked down and saw that the chronograph function had already started. Until this day I can't get it to work right. It will set back to zero by pulling the crown out to the first click, but will start up again at any given time. I have enjoyed this watch and hope someone can fix it. Sold as is no return. Movement measures Movement measures 41 mm across excluding crowns. Please see my other auctions.


In case it looks vaguely familiar  - *it should*.

It was discussed in a couple of threads, back in March 2010 ....

Before I started consolidating all the discussions of 7A38 Frankens into this single mega-thread in April 2010.

Of the two, this second thread has most of the gory details: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=53256

It took Dave S. and myself a few posts (and a fair bit of head-scratching :umnik2: ) ....

before we finally figured out exactly what we were looking at.

Basically, it's a 7A*2*8-7040/9 case and bezel fitted with a 7A38-706A dial face /movement and case-back. :hammer:

Plus a wrong (source unknown) sweep second hand, and wrong bracelet also of indeterminate origin. 

Here are a couple of the (better) photos from the previous eBay seller's listing in March 2010:



















As you can see, the serial number *6D0799* matches. :smartass:

And now it's got chrono' function problems. :help: .... Run away - be very scared. :fear: :stop:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> .... and wrong bracelet also of *indeterminate origin*.
> 
> Here are a couple of the (better) photos from the previous eBay seller's listing in March 2010:










Just noticed what is stamped on the underside of the bracelet's spring-bar tubes. :bull*******: :rofl2: :rofl:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> I know how some of you guys especially seem to like the 'Divers' variants of the 7A38's. :man_in_love:
> 
> Even if they appear to be *a bit* wabi'd.


So I suppose I ought to mention this one too - also listed on eBay overnight, by one of our favourite Filipino 'watch botchers'.

*SEIKO 7A38 DAYDATE CHRONOGRAPH SS QUARTZ MENSDIVERWATCH*












> D E S C R I P T I O N
> 
> RARE 1980'S SEIKO 7A38-7080 CHRONOGRAPH STAINLESS STEEL MENS DIVERWATCH,QUICKSET DAYDATE ON 3*0*CLOCK,QUARTZ CAL.7A38 MOVEMENT ,ORIGINAL BLACK DIAL WITH 3TACHY IN GOOD CONDITION,ORIGINAL INSERT RING,ORIGINAL OUTER BEZEL ROTATES BOTH DIRECTION WITH CLICK,CHRONO STOP/RESET TO CENTER,ALL FUNCTION ARE WORKING PROPERLY,
> 
> F E A T U R E S
> 
> MODEL NAME : SEIKO *7A38-7080* DAYDATE CHRONOGRAPH *STAINLESS* STEEL MENS DIVERWATCH,
> 
> CASE : Original ,STAINLESS STEEL CASE WITH OUTER BEZEL,*SLIGHTLY POLISHED*,
> 
> BRACELET ; *ORIGINAL SEIKO STAINLESS STEEL* BAND.FITS 6.5 WRIST,WITH EXTENSION CLASP,


As often appears the case, with the aptly-named Ramoncito Bangit's :hammer: eBay auction listings ....

It's not any false claims that he makes for his watches (as such) - it's what he *doesn't* tell you.









The 7A38-7080 should be (and once was) 'pvd' *black chrome plated* all over, like this pristine example: 


By 'lightly polished', he actually means that he spent hours grinding off what was left of it. :butcher:

In fact, you don't have to study his other listing photos too hard, to see evidence of the black chrome still remains:










It'll still probably sell for 'silly money'.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> It'll still probably sell for 'silly money'.


Well not *too* silly, anyway, but it still made *$144.50*.

See: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120678300664



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> *Only* 20 bids - ended about an hour ago at *US $183.50* (Approximately Â£120.07) :wallbash:


In comparison, the 7A*28*-7049/7A*38*-706A 'Franken', whose auction ended 1Â½ hours later, only made *$78.77* this time around.

See: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110642966485

So perhaps a few potential bidders were reading this thread. :read:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Interesting to see how another collector describes a 7A38 'Franken' when they realize what they've bought :duh:

.... and subsequently decide to move it on, without giving away that they'd sussed it. Or maybe they haven't. 

Check this one listed on eBay UK (in Northern Ireland) yesterday evening:



> *Vintage Seiko 7a38-7280 quartz chronograph watch SHARP.*
> 
> *
> *























> From latter part of sellers description ....
> 
> New top quality Jap battery placed around 5 months ago.
> 
> Dial is extremely sharp with original lume bright. *Featuring very rare black tachy inner bezel.*
> 
> *Quite a few all whites about but i've never come across another like this.*
> 
> Original bracelet. Original Crystal is 100% to naked eye, no tool marks on back, case and bracelet never polished/buffed so usual wear marks but very clean.
> 
> Booklet quotes at +/-15sec per month but it easily beats that. Some of these can do 20-30 seconds in 6 months if finely regulated.
> 
> Very sharp, clean, unabused example. Best i've ever owned...
> 
> Have to make room for an expensive new addition so regrettably letting go.
> 
> I do have a reserve on it as i've had a few offers all ready and i know approx value, but on the open market it goes...
> 
> No returns unless for exceptional circumstances, please ask any questions but photos are pretty clear.
> 
> Postage is recorded with tracking to UK. If you prefer something else, let me know. If outside UK, please contact me first for p&p quote.


Note: *Quite a few all whites about but i've never come across another like this.*

I wonder why ? :huh:

The watch is a 'Franken' built using the watch-case: bracelet and Tachy dial ring from a stainless black-faced 7A38-7270,

.... which has been fitted with the silvery-white 710L dial face / movement and case-back from a stainless 7A38-7280. :hammer:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Note: *Quite a few all whites about but i've never come across another like this.*
> 
> I wonder why ? :huh:


In fact, I have seen this particular 'variation' - the exact same 7A38 'Franken' before - not too long ago.

It seems I may have omitted to flag it in this thread, on the previous occasion







....

when it was listed by a 7A38 collector on eBay in the States, in November last year:



> *SEIKO 7A38-**7190** WATCH WHITE RARE CHRONOGRAPH UNIQUE*
> 
> (eBay item # 230532695473)






























As you can see from the previous seller's listing title, which I found in the current seller's feedback ....

They listed it, back in November, as a 7A38-*7190* (which it more closely resembles, in some respects) ....

rather than as a 7A38-7280 which the current seller has done, per the (wrongly fitted) case-back stampings.

Note: the serial number *8N1325* matches in both sets of photos - if not much else in the watch does correctly. 

Caveat Emptor, Gentlemen. :hi:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Interesting to see how another collector describes a 7A38 'Franken' when they realize what they've bought :duh:
> 
> .... and subsequently decide to move it on, without giving away that they'd sussed it. Or maybe they haven't.
> 
> Check this one listed on eBay UK (in Northern Ireland) yesterday evening:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Vintage Seiko 7a38-7280 quartz chronograph watch SHARP.*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From latter part of sellers description ....
> 
> New top quality Jap battery placed around 5 months ago.
> 
> Dial is extremely sharp with original lume bright. *Featuring very rare black tachy inner bezel.*
> 
> *Quite a few all whites about but i've never come across another like this.*
> 
> Original bracelet. Original Crystal is 100% to naked eye, no tool marks on back, case and bracelet never polished/buffed so usual wear marks but very clean.
> 
> Booklet quotes at +/-15sec per month but it easily beats that. Some of these can do 20-30 seconds in 6 months if finely regulated.
> 
> Very sharp, clean, unabused example. Best i've ever owned...
> 
> Have to make room for an expensive new addition so regrettably letting go.
> 
> I do have a reserve on it as i've had a few offers all ready and i know approx value, but on the open market it goes...
> 
> No returns unless for exceptional circumstances, please ask any questions but photos are pretty clear.
> 
> Postage is recorded with tracking to UK. If you prefer something else, let me know. If outside UK, please contact me first for p&p quote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Note: *Quite a few all whites about but i've never come across another like this.*
> 
> I wonder why ? :huh:
> 
> The watch is a 'Franken' built using the watch-case: bracelet and Tachy dial ring from a stainless black-faced 7A38-7270,
> 
> .... which has been fitted with the silvery-white 710L dial face / movement and case-back from a stainless 7A38-7280. :hammer:
Click to expand...

I dunno. Maybe I ought to give up. :groan:

After two bidders had slogged it out last week to over 90 Quid, another bidder goes and snipes it in the last 10 seconds ! 

See: http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p4340.l2565&item=290537237178

Sold for Â£102.00 - just higher than the previous price of $157.00 US, that the current seller paid for it last November. :wallbash:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> At the risk of repeating myself  - believe me, some of this stuff gets just as boring for me :yawn: ....
> 
> Listed overnight, on eBay in the Philippines by the reknowned Seiko Franken builder 'badingski':
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *SEIKO 7A38 DAYDATE CHRONOGRAPH 2TONE QUARTZ MENSWATCH*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From seller's listing description:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRACELET:* ORIGINAL SEIKO STAINLESS STEEL BAND. FITS 6.4 WRIST,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The bracelet on this two-tone watch should also be two-tone, as per the previous example I flagged at the top of page 6.
> 
> It's obviously fitted with the correct p/n B1627.E bracelet ....
> 
> But either a two-tone bracelet that has had the remaining traces of (presumably badly worn) gold plating polished off :butcher:
> 
> .... or possibly the stainless version of the same bracelet taken off another 7A38-728x.
Click to expand...

Whoever (in the US) bought that 7A38-7280 off Filipino watch-botcher 'Badingski' in January has chucked it back in the 'Bay.

.... using 2 of the photos lifted from Badingski's original eBay listing.











> *Seiko 7A38 DayDate Chronograph 2Tone Quartz Mens Watch*





















From a quick comparison check, between the two listings, it looks like he's copied Badingski's description 'verbatim', too.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Here we go again.  Some *rather less than honest* word-play from a Turkish eBay watch-botcher. :hammer:



> *Vintage SEIKO DAY-DATE CHRONOGRAPH DIVER'S UNUSUAL*
> 
> REF: 7A38-7280_ALL PART ARE ORIGINAL_ 1980s JAPAN MADE














> *ALL PART ARE ORIGINAL , VINTAGE SEIKO DAY-DATE CHRONOGRAPH , 1980s JAPAN MADE MENs WRISTWATCH*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> REFERENCE : 7A38-7280 , SIGNED SEIKO QUARTZ MOVEMENT*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> TWO COLORED ALL STAINLESS STEEL CASE , BACK AND LARGE SIZE ORIGINAL BRACELET*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> CASE DIAMETER MEASURES 38mm WITHOUT CROWN*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> ORIGINAL DIAL CONDITION IS AS SEEN , WATCH AND ALL FUNCTIONS ARE WORKING WELL*


Yup - I'll certainly allow the seller the use of the word '*UNUSAL*' to describe his creation ....

.... and what this watch is built up from probably genuinely are 'ALL PART ARE ORIGINAL' ....

However, they're not usually seen together in that ermm 'somewhat unique' configuration. :shocking:

What you're actually looking at comprises:

The watch case, Tachy dial ring and bracelet from a two-tone silver-grey faced 7A38-*7060*,

fitted with the 701L dial, hands (and presumably movement) from a gold-tone 7A38-*7000*,

.... topped off with the case-back from an innocent stainless (white-faced) 7A38-*7280*.

A right hotch-potch in fact. 

Caveat Emptor, fellow 7Axx enthusiasts. :hi:


----------



## Guest

I love this thread, I've learned a few things from reading it and at the same time it's very entertaining!


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the risk of repeating myself  - believe me, some of this stuff gets just as boring for me :yawn: ....
> 
> Listed overnight, on eBay in the Philippines by the reknowned Seiko Franken builder 'badingski':
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *SEIKO 7A38 DAYDATE CHRONOGRAPH 2TONE QUARTZ MENSWATCH*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From seller's listing description:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRACELET:* ORIGINAL SEIKO STAINLESS STEEL BAND. FITS 6.4 WRIST,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The bracelet on this two-tone watch should also be two-tone, as per the previous example I flagged at the top of page 6.
> 
> It's obviously fitted with the correct p/n B1627.E bracelet ....
> 
> But either a two-tone bracelet that has had the remaining traces of (presumably badly worn) gold plating polished off :butcher:
> 
> .... or possibly the stainless version of the same bracelet taken off another 7A38-728x.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whoever (in the US) bought that 7A38-7280 off Filipino watch-botcher 'Badingski' in January has chucked it back in the 'Bay.
> 
> .... using 2 of the photos lifted from Badingski's original eBay listing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Seiko 7A38 DayDate Chronograph 2Tone Quartz Mens Watch*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From a quick comparison check, between the two listings, it looks like he's copied Badingski's description 'verbatim', too.
Click to expand...

If you want a good chuckle :rofl2:, check out this seller's latest version of his listing - item # 260759153263.

Then scroll down past the desciption text to see the other embedded images he's included.


----------



## Faijex

Think I've found the Seiko I want


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Faijex said:


> Think I've found the Seiko I want


I hope for your sake that it isn't one featured in this thread. :lookaround:


----------



## Service Engineer

What will happen if it is then ?

Personally, I'd be more than happy to wear a couple of the 'Frankens' featured here.

I'm always surprised that watches the forum members 'modify' are often hailed as masterpieces but if other people do often far less garish alterations they're branded as 'Frankens'.

Beauty , eye, beholder etc etc.

The only time I think a watch should be branded a 'Franken' is if it's being passed off as genuine to aid a sale. Which a lot of the watches featured here were. But not all of them I think ?

Just my opinion . . .


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Service Engineer said:


> Beauty , eye, beholder etc etc.


Yup. :lookaround: It seems there's no accounting for taste  or apparent lack of common sense, sometimes. :duh:



Service Engineer said:


> The only time I think a watch should be branded a 'Franken' is if it's being passed off as genuine to aid a sale.


Which was indeed the case with the one I flagged at the bottom of the previous page:



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Here we go again.  Some *rather less than honest* word-play from a Turkish eBay watch-botcher. :hammer:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Vintage SEIKO DAY-DATE CHRONOGRAPH DIVER'S UNUSUAL*
> 
> REF: 7A38-7280_ALL PART ARE ORIGINAL_ 1980s JAPAN MADE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ALL PART ARE ORIGINAL , VINTAGE SEIKO DAY-DATE CHRONOGRAPH , 1980s JAPAN MADE MENs WRISTWATCH*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> REFERENCE : 7A38-7280 , SIGNED SEIKO QUARTZ MOVEMENT*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> TWO COLORED ALL STAINLESS STEEL CASE , BACK AND LARGE SIZE ORIGINAL BRACELET*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> CASE DIAMETER MEASURES 38mm WITHOUT CROWN*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> ORIGINAL DIAL CONDITION IS AS SEEN , WATCH AND ALL FUNCTIONS ARE WORKING WELL*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yup - I'll certainly allow the seller the use of the word '*UNUSAL*' to describe his creation ....
> 
> .... and what this watch is built up from probably genuinely are 'ALL PART ARE ORIGINAL' ....
> 
> However, they're not usually seen together in that ermm 'somewhat unique' configuration. :shocking:
> 
> What you're actually looking at comprises:
> 
> The watch case, Tachy dial ring and bracelet from a two-tone silver-grey faced 7A38-*7060*,
> 
> fitted with the 701L dial, hands (and presumably movement) from a gold-tone 7A38-*7000*,
> 
> .... topped off with the case-back from an innocent stainless (white-faced) 7A38-*7280*.
> 
> A right hotch-potch in fact.
> 
> Caveat Emptor, fellow 7Axx enthusiasts. :hi:
Click to expand...

That eBay auction finished about half an hour ago: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320674237114

Somebody who obviously doesn't read this thread paid *$142.51* (approx Â£88.59) for that scruffy 'Franken'. 

Compare that to this correct original (and very lightly worn) 7A38-7060 which I bought in January:










.... for which I paid only 76.00 Euros for (approx Â£66.82), against strong bidding competition.

Nope. :no: Seems there's definitely no accounting for taste. Oh well, I tried. :groan:


----------



## Service Engineer

At the risk of being accused of 'labouring a point' I don't see that it shows a lack of common sense or a lack of taste to like or even want to buy and wear a watch that's been made up from several different models.

Unfortunately I don't have the time to spend scouring the various sales forums nor do I have the money to just buy 100% genuine 'as they left the factory' watches.

As you'll probably remember from my private emails to you I've liked and even bought a couple of these 'frankens' in the past. One was excellent even though the bracelet wasn't the 'correct' one and the second one wasn't that bad apart from the face/dial details being faded/washed out. They weren't expensive and I got a degree of pleasure out of owning and wearing them.

My point here is, we get to it eventually, I don't feel I showed a lack of common sense or a lack of taste by obtaining either of the watches. Without a doubt there's no way you would have even considered buying either of them but to accuse others of lacking common sense or taste because they like them I think is a bit unfair. Even slightly rude maybe ? Just my opinion.

Chris.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Service Engineer said:


> Even slightly rude maybe ? Just my opinion.


Rude ?? :dontgetit: Condescending maybe ?  Probably. :grin: Do I care ? :no:

It may have escaped your notice, Chris ....

But the purpose of this thread is to flag *mis-represented* '7A38 Frankens' on eBay *for the unwary potential buyer*.

Almost exactly two years ago I bought a Franken myself :blush:, from arch-watch-botchers SpeedTimerKollecktion ! :butcher:

Initially I was pleased with it - until I realized what it was, and later became skilled enough to dismantle it myself. :hammer:

Indeed, I've since built a few '7A38 Frankens' myself - purely for enjoyment. See: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=57525

But if I ever sell any of them on eBay (in those configurations), they will be properly and accurately described as such.


----------



## Service Engineer

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Service Engineer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even slightly rude maybe ? Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> Rude ?? :dontgetit: Condescending maybe ?  Probably. :grin: Do I care ? :no:
> 
> It may have escaped your notice, Chris ....
> 
> But the purpose of this thread is to flag *mis-represented* '7A38 Frankens' on eBay *for the unwary potential buyer*.
> 
> Almost exactly two years ago I bought a Franken myself :blush:, from arch-watch-botchers SpeedTimerKollecktion ! :butcher:
> 
> Initially I was pleased with it - until I realized what it was, and later became skilled enough to dismantle it myself. :hammer:
> 
> Indeed, I've since built a few '7A38 Frankens' myself - purely for enjoyment. See: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=57525
> 
> But if I ever sell any of them on eBay (in those configurations), they will be properly and accurately described as such.
Click to expand...

"Do I care" Says it all really.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Service Engineer said:


> At the risk of being accused of 'labouring a point' I don't see that it shows a lack of common sense or a lack of taste to like or even want to buy and wear a watch that's been made up from several different models.


But you appear to be determined to 'labour your point', Chris.











Service Engineer said:


> As you'll probably remember from my private emails to you I've liked and even bought a couple of these 'frankens' in the past. One was excellent even though the bracelet wasn't the 'correct' one and the second one wasn't that bad apart from the face/dial details being faded/washed out. *They weren't expensive and I got a degree of pleasure out of owning and wearing them.*


May I remind you how you previously decribed your 'pleasure of owning and wearing (one of) them' - your own exact words:



Service Engineer said:


> It's good to hear that someone's having some success buying from Ebay. I recently fell for a watch advertised as an "Ultra Rare Seiko 7A28 7040". *I foolishly got it, the second time it was advertised*, for it's 'Buy It Now' price. I'd been after one of these, or a 7A38 for ages and this one appeared to just need a bit of a clean up. Anyway, even if it didn't look as good in the flesh as it appeared in its pictures, it was "Ultra Rare" so flipping it wouldn't be a problem. The watch arrived and I immediately noticed the face details seemed a lot duller than in its pictures. A couple of Forum members were contacted and they both agreed that what had been described as 'patina' was in fact evidence of probable water ingress. I cleaned it up fractionally and put it back on the 'Bay for what I bought it for. Nothing apart from a few watchers (no pun intended). It's now back on again for *substantially less than I paid for it*. Oh, and by the way - it wasn't "Ultra Rare" at all. They're quite common I've since discovered. One lesson learned - the hard way. Glad to hear you had better luck. :wallbash:





Service Engineer said:


> My point here is, we get to it eventually, I don't feel I showed a lack of common sense or a lack of taste by obtaining either of the watches. Without a doubt there's no way you would have even considered buying either of them but to accuse others of lacking common sense or taste because they like them I think is a bit unfair. Even slightly rude maybe ? Just my opinion.


I hasten to add that I wasn't accusing you personally (or anyone else in particular) of lacking in common sense, but ....


----------



## Service Engineer

I'd forgotten all about that one ! Yes, you're quite right that one was a total dog. Fortunately the other two weren't anywhere nearly as bad. Reasonable beaters for work.

As I've said to you before if ever you decide to part with one of your 7A38 watches, even if it's a 'made up' one, please bear me in mind.

Kindest regards,

Chris.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

avidfan said:


> I love this thread, I've learned a few things from reading it and at the same time it's very entertaining!


Thanks, but I must admit I am getting just a bit weary of flagging up this same old (mis-represented) type of cr*p. 

Here's yet another that popped up on eBay in the States last night:



> *SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH MENS WATCH 7A38-7289*














> *A MUST-HAVE COLLECTION OF SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH MENS WATCH*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> **ITEM DESCRIPTIONS*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> **Authentic Seiko Chrono Mens Watch, japan made. Original white dial-signed, original hands, mineral crystal, calendar day / date, complete push buttons and all functions , case and back case are stainless steel ref # 882030, Original Seiko SS bracelet, quartz movement. See pictures for best descriptions.*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> Sizes are approximately 36mm including crown x 42mm lug to lug, up to 6.20 inches wrist.*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> WATCH CONDITION*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> **1. Not Polish. Discoloration on dial*
> 
> *
> 2. Watch is cleaned and oiled two weeks ago.*
> 
> *
> 3. Watch keeps time.*


When I saw it, my first reaction was that it was once a two-tone 7A38-7289, which had had

all remaining traces of the gold plating polished off the bezel, buttons and middle bracelet links.

If you're not sure what one of these watches should look like, check out current eBay listing # 230606494957.

That one is also a 7A38-7289, but just to confuse you, the UK eBay seller has incorrectly listed it as a 7A38-7280. :duh:

But it was the US eBay seller's statement (true or otherwise) that it was 'Not Polish(ed)' that slightly confused me. 

There were a few different model numbers (and sales codes) used by Seiko on these two watches:

The Two-tone Roman numeral white-face (7240 dial) can be a 7A38-7289 or a 7A38-728A

and the (all) Stainless silvery white-faced (710L dial) can be a 7A38-7289 or a 7A38-7280.

If you look closely at the photo he's included of the case-back:










It would appear to say: ST.STEEL BASE METAL BEZEL (which is correct for a two-tone 7A38-7289).

The stainless (710L white-dialled) 7A38-7289 would have STAINLESS STEEL stamped in the same place.

Note (how conveniently) the stamping of 'BASE METAL BEZEL' appears to have been almost 'worn away'. 

If it's not been (very well) polished, to remove all traces of the gold plating ....

I'd suggest that this is the watch case and bracelet from a stainless 7A38-7289,

fitted with the (7240) White Roman dial and case-back from a two-tone 7A38-7289.

That way, the seller's statements would read true.









Either way, from the state of that dial, it looks a bit of a dog. One to avoid, definitely. :thumbsdown:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Service Engineer said:


> .... if ever you decide to part with one of your 7A38 watches, even if it's a 'made up' one, please bear me in mind.
> 
> Kindest regards,
> 
> Chris.





SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> If you're not sure what one of these watches should look like, check out current eBay listing # 230606494957.
> 
> That one is also a 7A38-7289, but just to confuse you, the UK eBay seller has incorrectly listed it as a 7A38-7280. :duh:


By the way, Chris ....

In case you happen to be the same 'Chris' asking the question on 'TigerUK's' 7A38-7289 (or 7A38-7280  ) ....

That one appears to be 100% correct - if a little worn out on the gold-plated areas. Plenty better to be found.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> By the way, Chris ....
> 
> In case you happen to be the same 'Chris' asking the question on 'TigerUK's' 7A38-7289 (or 7A38-7280  ) ....
> 
> That one appears to be 100% correct - if a little worn out on the gold-plated areas. Plenty better to be found.










*My bad !* :blush:

If you read TigerUK's reply properly, then you'll know that the 30 minute counter sub-dial hand is (an incorrect) replacement:










They should all look like this:


----------



## Guest

Service Engineer said:


> At the risk of being accused of 'labouring a point' I don't see that it shows a lack of common sense or a lack of taste to like or even want to buy and wear a watch that's been made up from several different models.
> 
> Unfortunately I don't have the time to spend scouring the various sales forums nor do I have the money to just buy 100% genuine 'as they left the factory' watches.
> 
> As you'll probably remember from my private emails to you I've liked and even bought a couple of these 'frankens' in the past. One was excellent even though the bracelet wasn't the 'correct' one and the second one wasn't that bad apart from the face/dial details being faded/washed out. They weren't expensive and I got a degree of pleasure out of owning and wearing them.
> 
> My point here is, we get to it eventually, I don't feel I showed a lack of common sense or a lack of taste by obtaining either of the watches. Without a doubt there's no way you would have even considered buying either of them but to accuse others of lacking common sense or taste because they like them I think is a bit unfair. Even slightly rude maybe ? Just my opinion.
> 
> Chris.


At the end of the day we all wear what we like, I've seen a couple of frankens that I quite like the look of-would I buy one? Yes, if it's a fair price.

The point of this thread though is to try and warn people about them, I would be extremely p***ed off if I bought a franken believing it to be a genuine watch-especially if I paid a premium price because of it's scarcity!


----------



## SEIKO7A38

avidfan said:


> At the end of the day we all wear what we like, I've seen a couple of frankens that I quite like the look of-would I buy one?
> 
> Yes, if it's a fair price.
> 
> The point of this thread though is to try and warn people about them, I would be extremely p***ed off if I bought a franken believing it to be a genuine watch-especially if I paid a premium price because of it's scarcity!


Indeed.









I'm not afraid of admitting that two years ago, when I was still very much a '7A38 Newbie', :blush:

I bought a 7A38 Franken from non other than arch-watch-botchers 'SpeedTimerKollection' :butcher:



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> I've got one of those incoming myself (hopefully sometime this week) from an eBay seller in Spain:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both of our watches rather different to the more common gunmetal grey-coloured faced 7A38-7020's I'm used to seeing ....


I had no idea (back then) that it was a Franken - and was actually quite pleased with it, at the time.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

I've gone and 'turned the page' on myself again. 

Anybody interested in reading about the latest 7A38 Franken to surface in 'the Bay' (rather than my faux pas) ....

Go back to *Post # 147 on the previous page*.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Not exactly a Franken, as such ....

But then not quite as 'original' as the Filipino eBay seller describes it either, so worthy of mentioning ....



> *SEIKO QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH MEN'S WATCH 7A38-7260, NR*


*YOU ARE BIDDING ON A RARE AND COLLECTIBLE SEIKO QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH*

*
DAY/DATE MEN'S WATCH IN STAINLESS STEEL.. GRAY DIAL.. 7A38-7260 *

*
*

*
COMES WITH THE ORIGINAL SEIKO SQ 2-TONE BRACELET, READY TO WEAR! *

*
ACTUAL PHOTOS OF THE WATCH ARE PROVIDED.*












> PRE-OWNED AND RARE SEIKO QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH DAY/DATE MEN'S WATCH 7A38-7260
> 
> STAINLESS STEEL CASE MEASURING APPROXIMATELY 40MMX42MM, WITHOUT CROWN AND FROM LUG TO LUG
> 
> GRAY DIAL
> 
> ORIGINAL HANDS
> 
> ORIGINAL GOLD CROWN (AGED) AND STAINLESS PUSHERS
> 
> QUICKSET DAY/DATE AT 3 O'CLOCK
> 
> ORIGINAL BUFFED CRYSTAL
> 
> PLAIN BEZEL, INNER TACHYMETER BEZEL
> 
> SEIKO 7A38 QUARTZ MOVEMENT, KEEPS CORRECT TIME; CHRONOGRAPH FUNCTIONS CORRECTLY, STARTS/STOPS/RESETS
> 
> STAINLESS STEEL BACK CASE 7A38-7260.. SERIAL NO. 785265 (AUGUST 1888)
> 
> SEIKO 2-TONE BRACELET, FITS A 7 INCH WRIST APPROX.


So where do we start ?  How about *BEZEL MISALIGNMENT FOUL !!!*







This is a fixed bezel, of course. 

The watch-botcher has obviously removed it to polish off the remaining traces of worn original gold plating (outside only).

He's then replaced it 90Â° out of kilter. The bezel on these is elliptical, and should be aligned with shape of the case.

The hands are quite possibly the originals, but if so, they've been polished, removing their black painted areas.

The 7A38-7260 model itself never came on a bracelet; they were all factory fitted with leather straps.

Though other models using the same watch case did, such as the 7A38-7240 / -724A / -7250 and 725A.

Actually if you look at some of the seller's later photos, such as this one:










It's not too hard to figure out which 7A38 model the bracelet originally came off. :butcher:

The lugs are stamped G1285.E, but this is a G1285*D* bracelet off a 7A38-*7250*.

A 7A38-7250 is coated all over in a very light Gunmetal finish, which, in some light almost looks Lilac.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Belated postscript:



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> The hands are quite possibly the originals, but if so, they've been polished, removing their black painted areas.


Here's what the hands on a silver-grey faced 7A38-7260 should look like. Photo also shows the correct bezel positioning:










The light grey Lizard strap is one I have fitted - personal choice. :tongue2:

The original strap would have been plain grey leather, triple-stitched, as shown in this Seiko catalogue illustration:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Not exactly a Franken, as such ....
> 
> But then not quite as 'original' as the Filipino eBay seller describes it either, so worthy of mentioning ....
> 
> The 7A38-7260 model itself never came on a bracelet; they were all factory fitted with leather straps.
> 
> Though other models using the same watch case did, such as the 7A38-7240 / -724A / -7250 and 725A.
> 
> Actually if you look at some of the seller's later photos, such as this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not too hard to figure out which 7A38 model the bracelet originally came off. :butcher:
> 
> The lugs are stamped G1285.E, but this is a G1285*D* bracelet off a 7A38-*7250*.
> 
> A 7A38-7250 is coated all over in a very light Gunmetal finish, which, in some light almost looks Lilac.


Unbelievable. :thumbsdown: Dunno how these Filipino eBay sellers do it , but that travesty of a 7A38 still made *$117.50* after 14 bids. :wallbash:

See: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p4340.l2565&item=110674656851 All I can think is someone must have been looking for a bracelet for a 7A38-7250.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Unbelievable. :thumbsdown: .... All I can think is someone must have been looking for a bracelet for a 7A38-7250.


Now this IS unbelieveable. :groan:

Just over a week after that auction, the same Filipino eBay seller 'apol_of_your_eyes', goes and lists this:



> *SEIKO QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH MEN'S WATCH 7A38-7250, NR*























> *COMES WITH A NEW AFTERMARKET LEATHER BRACELET, READY TO WEAR!*


This must be the 7A38-7250 which (incorrectly) donated it's G1285D bracelet to the previous 7A38-7260. :butcher:

The Filipino watch botcher obviously doesn't realize (or care) how rare the original (correct) 7A38-7250 is ! :cray:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> The Filipino watch botcher obviously doesn't realize (or care) how rare the original (correct) 7A38-7250 is ! :cray:


No *apol*ogies for continuing my rant against this particular Filipino watch-botcher. :taz:

I've checked back through my records, and in 2Â½ years of scouring eBay, I've only ever seen *TWO* 7A38-7250's before.

This one, below, offered by JosÃ© Sotto a.k.a. 'watchcooking' on eBay, back in July 2009:










Complete with original G1285D bracelet, not messed with, but generally looking a little tired. I very nearly bid on it, IIRC. 

And this one, N.O.S. with tags, which I bought in a job lot of 3, off eBay in the States, back in October 2009:










It's pretty hard to capture the true colours of that lilac-hued light gunmetal coating *and* the metallic beige dial







....

But here's what a 7A38-7250 SAA080J should look like:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Here we go again  .... it's Franken Friday.









Actually, this one's not so bad, but worthy of mention in view of the eBay seller's rather ambitious Buy-it-Now asking price.



> *7A38-702A SEIKO QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH MID 80'S RARE*





















(Note: the 7A38-702A case-back stampings appear to have been almost erased in the second photo).



> YOU ARE BIDDING ON A RARE AND COLLECTIBLE SEIKO QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH DAY/DATE MEN'S WATCH. iT KEEPS GOOD TIME, AND IS IN EXCELLENT CONDITION FOR IT'S AGE (MID 1980'S). THIS WAS ONE OF SEIKO'S FIRST 17 JEWEL QUARTZ CHRONOGRAPH MOVEMENTS AND IS A VERY COLLECTABE WATCH. IT HAS BEEN WELL CARED FOR AND IS IN EXCELLENT CONDITION.


Well for starters, the 7A38-702A, and it's identical twin, the 7A38-702H are not rare at all.

They're one of the more commonly seen variants and turn up quite frequently on eBay in the States ....

where this particular one is on offer. Often as not they sell in the $75-$100 range, dependant upon condition.

This seller is asking *$175* as a Buy-it-Now. :shocking: So I hope nobody falls for it, because of the price. :groan:

The seller doesn't actually make any claims for the watch's originality. Which is just as well, really. :dontgetit:

The once gold-plated bezel has had all its plating stripped or polished off, and the integrated bracelet is non-original.

It would have originally looked like this (a mint boxed N.O.S. example offered by Singapore dealer Y-M Koh last year ):










Better comparison perhaps is this one in nice lightly used condition offered on eBay in Italy in December last year:










IIRC, that one sold for 80 Euros. Nearly bought it myself, but couldn't justify another. :naughty:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> This seller is asking *$175* as a Buy-it-Now. :shocking: So I hope nobody falls for it, because of the price. :groan:
> 
> The seller doesn't actually make any claims for the watch's originality. Which is just as well, really. :dontgetit:
> 
> The once gold-plated bezel has had all its plating stripped or polished off, and the integrated bracelet is non-original.


Somebody fell for it ! :wallbash: Sold for $150 sometime over the weekend. :duh:

See: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=290562883346&si=SH3ZuYhAM7aZ8DeNTgQukupLQ5w%253D&viewitem=&sspagenam Oh well, I tried. :sadwalk:


----------



## Moustachio

doesn't seem a huge amount of money for a pretty nice watch to me...

(I wasn't the buyer btw)


----------



## SEIKO7A38

This is by means of a somewhat belated postscript. :dontgetit:

Back in October last year, Skip flagged this 7A38-7010 'Franken' in another thread ....

and I replied to it there, but later copied and pasted my reply in post #83 of this thread.



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> The seller, Mike Mounce also has that 7A38 listed on the Seiko & Citizen Trading Post.
> 
> *Slightly lower price on there, too.* :lookaround: I already sent him an email about it, yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *>>* Effectively, it's a 7A38-*7010*, fitted with an incorrect case-back off a 7A38-*7180*.  *<<*
> 
> Also, although it appears similar, the bracelet isn't the correct one for a 7A38-7010, either.
> 
> 
> 
> Noticed the seller has now dropped Buy-it-Now price from $175 to $120, in the hope of tempting a buyer. :lookaround:
> 
> He's also added this rider to his listing description:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Interested parties responsibility to ask all questions before bidding.*
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

This just shows you that I'm human, occasionally miss things :blush:

and that I'm still learning about more these watches all the time.









The original eBay listing # 320598891817 has long since dropped off 'history'.

The SCWF advert is still there, but the remotely hosted photos have been deleted.

See: http://www.thewatchsite.com/index.php/topic,9653.msg49355.html

I didn't upload the seller's photos at the time, so here's 3 out of the 5 of them:


























Not such a bad looking watch, really - even if it is a 'wrong 'un', especially at the final SCWF asking price of $110.

Now compare it with this - Hung 'Time2Fly' Pham's minty example:










Notice anything ?  How about the colour of the Day / Date windows :shocking:

I recently checked through the 100+ photos of 7A38-7010's that I had on file.

All the others have Black lettering on White background Day and Date wheels.

Only the aforementioned Franken, with the 7A38-7180 case-back had White lettering on Black.

How come ? :dontgetit: Because not only did this watch have the wrong case-back fitted,

but it now appears (to me) extremely likely that it had also received a movement swap. :hammer:

The black chrome coated 7A38-7180 uses White on Black background Day / Date wheels.









Edit: Just noticed that the 7A38-7010 'Franken' also had a mis-matched / mis-placed 30 minute sub-dial hand too. :grin:


----------



## mrteatime

have you any pics with after market bracelets on these?? im not that keen on this style.....


----------



## SEIKO7A38

mrteatime said:


> have you any pics with after market bracelets on these?? im not that keen on this style.....


Hardly any at all, sorry, Shawn. 

Most people who fit substitute bracelets to 7A38-701x's in place of the original Seiko p/n Z1118S,

tend to go for something very similar looking to the original bracelet, such as Seiko p/n B1688S.

One of the first 7A38-7010's I came across, fitted with a 'wrong' bracelet was offered for sale on RLT:




























Not sure exactly which bracelet it is, but with those 'hinges', it looks like it could be a

Seiko p/n B1075S off a 7A28-7040/-7049 or a p/n B1241S off a 7A38-7070 - or suchlike.

With this watch-case, you're very limited as to what will fit, with the restrictive 20mm boxed in lugs.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

mrteatime said:


> have you any pics with after market bracelets on these?? im not that keen on this style.....





SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> With this watch-case, you're very limited as to what will fit, with the restrictive 20mm boxed in lugs.


I've seen a couple of people trying straps on them, but whatever used, they need to have a pretty slim fitting:



















Here's another one. :yucky: Obviously fitted by someone who was totally colour-blind :blind:


----------



## mrteatime

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> mrteatime said:
> 
> 
> 
> have you any pics with after market bracelets on these?? im not that keen on this style.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> With this watch-case, you're very limited as to what will fit, with the restrictive 20mm boxed in lugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've seen a couple of people trying straps on them, but whatever used, they need to have a pretty slim fitting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another one. :yucky: Obviously fitted by someone who was totally colour-blind :blind:
Click to expand...

Now, funnily enough.....that looks cool


----------



## SEIKO7A38

mrteatime said:


> Now, funnily enough.....that looks cool


How did I know you were going to write something like that ? :grin:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> mrteatime said:
> 
> 
> 
> have you any pics with after market bracelets on these?? im not that keen on this style.....
> 
> 
> 
> Hardly any at all, sorry, Shawn.
> 
> Most people who fit substitute bracelets to 7A38-701x's in place of the original Seiko p/n Z1118S,
> 
> tend to go for something very similar looking to the original bracelet, such as Seiko p/n B1688S.
> 
> One of the first 7A38-7010's I came across, fitted with a 'wrong' bracelet was offered for sale on RLT ....
Click to expand...

Funny Shawn should have asked that question, because a 7A38-7010 fitted with a different 'wrong' bracelet just surfaced in the Bay. 

Item # 220783479988



> *VINTAGE SEIKO 7A38-7010 CHRONOGRAPH MEN'S QUARTZ WATCH*












The Filipino eBay seller clearly states that the bracelet is a replacement in his description:



> *BRACELET: Vintage replacement, will fit a 7 inch wrist. Will send a new one for free.*


But it's the hands (and dial indices), which he describes simply as 'Original' that don't look quite right to my eyes. :umnik2:

Possibly re-painted ?  Or an abortive attempt at re-luming ? :thumbsdown:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

I thought I ought to flag this up in the main 7A38 Franken thread ....

As discussed at length already in a parallel thread, with thanks, once again to Bruce ('7A28lvr') for his useful input. :thumbsup:



SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another unusual 'rare' variant of the much-loved 7A38-70xx 'Diver' surfaced on eBay in *Brazil* overnight.
> 
> Check out eBay item # 250822095718 - now re-listed as # 260790987681, if you haven't already seen it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *WATCH SEIKO VINTAGE MILITARY CHRONOGRAPH (7A38) RARITY*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This watch may have the case-back off a ZFM 7A38-7085 .... but IMO (revised) it is a *complete and utter Franken*. :hammer:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That eBay auction for the 7A38-7085 Franken ended about half an hour ago: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=250822095718&si=SH3ZuYhAM7aZ8DeNTgQukupLQ5w%253D&viewitem=&sspagenam
> 
> Thankfully, nobody suffered a rush of blood to the bidding finger. :sweatdrop:
> 
> Hardly surprising, though, with that opening bid price of *$319.90*.
Click to expand...

.... Simply because, overnight the Brazilian eBay seller has re-listed it (for 30 days) as a Buy-it-Now for *$294.99*. 

I also received an email from Paulo (of TempusVivendi.br watch forum), this morning ....

Warning me about this particular ZFM 7A38-7085 ....

and saying in his experience, that this seller is a known purveyor of dodgy franken watches. Caveat Emptor. :thumbsdown:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

How about a 7A*2*8 Franken ? :huh: Plus Ã§a change ....

The reason I'm bothering to flag this one, because it popped up on my radar this morning,

is because the Filipino seller 'time-essence' has incorrectly titled his eBay listing as:

*SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH MENS WATCH 7A38-702A*






























> *A MUST-HAVE COLLECTION OF SEIKO CHRONOGRAPH MENS WATCH 7A28*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> **ITEM DESCRIPTIONS*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> Authentic Seiko Chronograph Mens Watch, japan made. Original dial-signed, original hands, original acrylic glass, original crown, case and backcase are stainless steel with reference number 458840, Seiko SS bracelet, quartz movement. See pictures for best descriptions.*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> Sizes are approximately 37mm including crown x 42mm lug to lug, up to 7.50 inches wrist. *
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> WATCH CONDITION*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> 1. Slightly Polished, crystal is flawless, expect scratches on steel *
> 
> *
> 2. Machine cleaned and oiled two weeks ago.*
> 
> *
> 3. Watch keeps time.*


Well it sure as hell isn't a 7A38-702A , and I think I know enough about 7A28's to call :bull*******:

The case could well be from a stainless 7A28-70*2*A. See: http://members.cox.net/watches-1/7A28_702A.html

But the dial and chapter ring are from a 7A28-70*3*A. See: http://members.cox.net/watches-1/7A28_703A.html

The Jubilee bracelet may have a Seiko SQ clasp, but it could be off anything with a 20mm lug fitting.

Caveat Emptor, fellow 7Axx collectors. :hi:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Ever get that feeling of DÃ©jÃ Vu ? 

This is another case of being wary of what the eBay seller doesn't tell you in his description.









Listed overnight on eBay in the States by seller 'VintageRolex4Less':



> *Vintage Seiko 7A38 Chronograph*























> *Rare case type 1980's Seiko 7A38.*
> 
> *
> The good news is that the time and date run perfectly, the bad news is*
> 
> *
> that the second hand is missing and the 30 minute register does not reset.*
> 
> *
> The case back also has several scratches. Overall fair condition.*


Apart from the missing sweep second hand, and the 30 minute register problem ....

What the seller omits to tell you is that it's a Franken (albeit an attractive looking one).

The all black dial is a 722L dial out of a stainless 7A38-7270 or a black chrome 7A38-7290.

The 7A38-7029 case and B1171S bracelet look in fair condition, so it could quite easily be fixed up (as is) ....

.... or broken up for parts to rectify lesser examples of the two original donor watches. :hammer:

I'm almost tempted to go for it myself. :naughty:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Ever get that feeling of DÃ©jÃ Vu ?


Check out these two photos from an eBay auction listing in December 2009, (before I started this thread):



















Apart from the 722L dial; missing sweep second hand and scratches on the case-back ....

Note the (same) position of the sub-dial hand on the 30 minute register - on 17 minutes. :wink2:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Ever get that feeling of DÃ©jÃ Vu ?
> 
> What the seller omits to tell you is that it's a Franken (albeit an attractive looking one).
> 
> The all black dial is a *722L dial* out of a stainless 7A38-7270 *or a black chrome 7A38-7290*.
> 
> The 7A38-7029 case and B1171S bracelet look in fair condition, so it could quite easily be ...


Yeh. I knew I'd been here before. 

I'd captioned the 2 photos that I saved from the previous eBay listing in December 2009 as something like:

7A38-7029_Stainless+Black(7A38-7290Franken)....

So just to be sure, I messaged the current eBay seller and asked him for the full 7A38-xxxx number off the case-back.

He just replied '7290'.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

It's been a bit quiet on the eBay Seiko 7A38 Franken front for the last month or so. :lookaround:

O.K., so there have been a few odd ones with incorrect bracelets fitted, but nothing worth mentioning.

So how about a Froggy Franken for a change ? B) Vive la Difference, and all that. :artist:



> *MONTRE CHRONOGRAPHE SEIKO 7A38*














> belle seiko mÃ©canique quartz des annÃ©es 70 acheter sur ebay montre rÃ©viser,
> 
> bracelet neuf (grande taille) sauf boucle origine
> 
> verre remplacer, boitier polie,cadran aucun dÃ©faut, porter 2 fois
> 
> trÃ¨s bonne Ã©tat de fonctionnement et de presentation
> 
> paiement par chÃ¨que souhaiter


Oh how I love that French term 'RÃ©visÃ©e' - frequently used to cover 'a multitude of sins'. 

The watch is loosely based on a gold-tone 7A38-7060, whose watch-case has been stripped

of its plating and polished. It still has the original 7A38-7060 gold Tachymeter dial ring fitted.

The bracelet is a generic 'President' type, fitted with the original Seiko SQ gold-tone clasp.

The Arabic number gold dial and hands (and presumably movement) are from a gold-tone 7A38-7289.

Definitely one to avoid - especially at the 70 Euros opening bid price. :thumbsdown:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Ever get that feeling of DÃ©jÃ Vu ?


I thought this particular Franken combination looked vaguely familiar. :umnik2:

This one's been on the block before, too. :disgust: So maybe a case of Non-Plus Ã§a change ....

Here's 5 of the 11 images saved from a previous eBay listing in June 2009 (before this thread started):


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Another rough-ish looking 7A38 cropped up on eBay in the States overnight, looking similar to

the one in post # 167 at the top of this page, and whereas it's not so much a 'Franken', per se,

once again it's a case of what the seller doesn't tell you in his description, that makes this a wrong un. :thumbsdown:



> *Vintage Seiko 7A38 1/10th Analog Chronograph Watch, NR*
































> This auction is for a fairly rare vintage Seiko 1/10th second quartz chronograph, model *7A38-702H*. Considering its age, the watch is in overall good condition and operating properly (all dials and chronograph functions work correctly, all buttons push smoothly, etc). The watch is historically significant because these movements were some of the first all-analog quartz chronographs. The movement is a fully jeweled (15J) unit with all metal gears, designed for a long life. The watch features day and date windows within the right subdial. The right subdial records 1/10th second in the chronograph mode. The bottom subdial is constant seconds, and the left subdial is a 30 minutes register for the stopwatch. The center second hand is for chronograph seconds. The upper left button is a "split" stop for the chronograph. The dial and hands are in excellent condition. The crystal has a few scratches that are mostly noticed when they reflect off a light source. The crown and pushers all work properly. The case has some light scuffs and scratches, nothing too bad. The bezel has a tachmeter scale and is slightly faded. The watch is on an Orient bracelet, but it appears to be from the proper time period of the watch and works well with it. The bracelet will fit up to about a 7.25 inch wrist. Below the 12:00 marker the watch has a chrome "Seiko" marker that didn't show up well in the pictures, but it is there and in excellent condition. The case measures about 40mm in diameter (excluding crown and pushers). The screw-down case back has the Seiko wave logo and is marked "Water Resist St. Steel Base Metal Bezel *7A38-702H* A5" and also has a serial number. I'm sorry, but I don't have the case or instructions to go with it, but setting instructions are readily available online.
> 
> I try to describe items accurately, but please ask any questions you may have prior to bidding.


And there's the 'gotcher'. Not only fairly beaten up looking, if truth be told, and on the wrong (Orient) bracelet ....

This watch is actually a 7A38-*7010*, and once looked like this: http://members.cox.net/watches-1/7A38_7010.html

So it's got the wrong case-back fitted (off a 7A38-702H), too. :hammer:

Might be useful for parts, but certainly not worth the opening bid price of $69.99, IMHO. :thumbsdown:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

> Heads Up On Yet Another 7A38 Franken


Just as well I didn't include 'Seiko' in the title. 



> The latest mis-constructed classic quartz chrono found on *e**B**a**y*


Pity about the subtitle







, because I'm about to go slightly fftopic:

How about a 'Franken' Yema Spationaute III :astro:, on that French 'Bay of Pirates', LeBonCoin.fr ? :artist:

Listed this afternoon: http://www.leboncoin.fr/montres_bijoux/230301542.htm?ca=1_s



> *Ancienne montre YEMA Spationaute 3*
































> Prix : *110 â‚¬* Ville : *42000 Saint-Etienne*
> 
> Montre franÃ§aise de la marque YEMA mod spationaute 3
> 
> Boitier acier diam 38 mm hors couronne .
> 
> Lunette tournante .
> 
> Mouvement quartz qui fonctionne parfaitement .
> 
> Envois par colissimo 7â‚¬ ou recommandÃ© 10â‚¬
> 
> Prix pas nÃ©gociable


There are a few different variations of the Yema Spationaute III, which came in both full-size 43mm Ã˜ and 38mm Ã˜ 'reduced' versions.

The rarer 38mm Ã˜ versions are less frequently seen, either on eBay (France) or LeBonCoin but usually command similar prices.

Which means that this one, priced (cheaply) to sell, will probably get snapped up in no time - particulary as it's on a NATO :comando:

But in my book, it's a wrong 'un







.... and I'll explain why presently.


----------



## mollydog

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Heads Up On Yet Another 7A38 Franken
> 
> 
> 
> Just as well I didn't include 'Seiko' in the title.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The latest mis-constructed classic quartz chrono found on *e**B**a**y*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pity about the subtitle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , because I'm about to go slightly fftopic:
> 
> How about a 'Franken' Yema Spationaute III :astro:, on that French 'Bay of Pirates', LeBonCoin.fr ? :artist:
> 
> Listed this afternoon: http://www.leboncoin...1542.htm?ca=1_s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ancienne montre YEMA Spationaute 3*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prix : *110 â‚¬* Ville : *42000 Saint-Etienne*
> 
> Montre franÃ§aise de la marque YEMA mod spationaute 3
> 
> Boitier acier diam 38 mm hors couronne .
> 
> Lunette tournante .
> 
> Mouvement quartz qui fonctionne parfaitement .
> 
> Envois par colissimo 7â‚¬ ou recommandÃ© 10â‚¬
> 
> Prix pas nÃ©gociable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are a few different variations of the Yema Spationaute III, which came in both full-size 43mm Ã˜ and 38mm Ã˜ 'reduced' versions.
> 
> The rarer 38mm Ã˜ versions are less frequently seen, either on eBay (France) or LeBonCoin but usually command similar prices.
> 
> Which means that this one, priced (cheaply) to sell, will probably get snapped up in no time - particulary as it's on a NATO :comando:
> 
> But in my book, it's a wrong 'un
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .... and I'll explain why presently.
Click to expand...

Paul while were waiting im going to have a wild guess. :thumbup:

I think it has the wrong dial as you rarely find gold

batons/hands etc without a complement of gold on the case.

Worth a few brownie points i think :agree:

Hope you dont mind the needless disruption :band:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

As far as I know (based purely what I've witnessed to date), there are 2 (basic) versions of the 38mm Ã˜ Yema Spationaute III.

Firstly the blue faced version, Yema case model # *N80A66*.

This is all stainless, with stainless pushers and crown, and Dark Blue / White (sometimes with lume) painted bezel detailing,

and uses the same blue dial (without 'Paris' nor 'Quartz' printing), as the later production versions of the 43mm Ã˜ Spationaute III,

but obviously with the larger watch's Tachymeter dial ring omitted. Similarly, it uses the same (polished stainless) main hand set.

Here's a couple of recent photos of my own partially refurbished example:



















Plus a couple more photos of an original un-molested example, here on ForumaMontres - the only other blue 38mm Ã˜ I've ever seen. :shocking:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> As far as I know (based purely what I've witnessed to date), there are 2 (basic) versions of the 38mm Ã˜ Yema Spationaute III.
> 
> Firstly the blue faced version, Yema case model # *N80A66*.


Then there's the white faced version, Yema model case # *N80A696*

I believe the white dial is unique to this model - or at least I've never seen a 43mm Ã˜ Spationaute III with anything but a blue dial.

It uses the same watch case as the blue-faced 38mm, but with gold-plated pushers and crown, and gold painted bezel detailing.

I've seen them fitted with both gold-plated main hands (to match the batons), and black-painted to match the sub-dial hands / indices.

Here's one that was on eBay France (for almost a year) with an asking price of 750 Euros. 










Here's a couple of older photos of my two, which I've previously posted in other threads:



















Incidentally, the case-backs of the blue-faced (N80A66) and white-faced (N80A696) versions are BOTH stamped 'ALL STAINLESS STEEL'.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

mollydog said:


> Paul while were waiting im going to have a wild guess. :thumbup:
> 
> I think it has the wrong dial as you rarely find gold
> 
> batons / *hands* etc without a complement of gold on the case.
> 
> Worth a few brownie points i think :agree:


Close, but no cigar, Robert. :thumbsdown:

If you look properly :blind: at the seller's photos, you'll see that it's only the batons which are gold-plated. :tongue2:

What I believe this watch comprises is:

The watch case / pushers / crown and (dark blue detailed) bezel from the 38mm all-stainless blue-faced version ....

fitted with the dial and case-back (you can just make out the N80A696) from the 'two-tone' white faced version, and

(for reasons best known to the builder) the main (polished stainless) handset from the stainless blue-faced version.

Knowing what prices decent examples of both the original watches can fetch - anything from 200 up to 400 Euros ....

All in all, a wasteful and potentially expensive '7A38 Franken', which belies the seller's low-ish 110 Euros asking price.



mollydog said:


> Hope you dont mind the needless disruption :band:


It would have been nice if you'd let me finish, so my sequence of posts ran concurrently. :sadwalk:

But what really p*sses me off is that you feel the need to always re-quote my whole post in full. 

Please go away, Robert, and try practicing *partial quotes* on somebody else's threads for a change.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> How about a 'Franken' Yema Spationaute III :astro:, on that French 'Bay of Pirates', LeBonCoin.fr ? :artist:
> 
> Listed this afternoon: http://www.leboncoin.fr/montres_bijoux/230301542.htm?ca=1_s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ancienne montre YEMA Spationaute 3*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prix : *110 â‚¬* Ville : *42000 Saint-Etienne*
> 
> Montre franÃ§aise de la marque YEMA mod spationaute 3
> 
> Boitier acier diam 38 mm hors couronne .
> 
> Lunette tournante .
> 
> Mouvement quartz qui fonctionne parfaitement .
> 
> Envois par colissimo 7â‚¬ ou recommandÃ© 10â‚¬
> 
> Prix pas nÃ©gociable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which means that this one, priced (cheaply) to sell, will probably get snapped up in no time ....
Click to expand...

Which indeed it was, earlier today.  Same link: http://www.leboncoin.fr/montres_bijoux/230301542.htm?ca=1_s .... presumably because:



> Le bien a dÃ©jÃ Ã©tÃ© vendu et l'annonceur a supprimÃ© son annonce.
> 
> (The goods are already sold and the advertiser removed their advertisement)


I did send the seller a message, in my best schoolboy French, asking a couple of pertinent questions ....

Needless to say, I never received any reply. :disgust: So I can only presume my assessments were correct. :thumbsdown:


----------



## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Another rough-ish looking 7A38 cropped up on eBay in the States overnight, looking similar to
> 
> the one in post # 167 at the top of this page, and whereas it's not so much a 'Franken', per se,
> 
> once again it's a case of what the seller doesn't tell you in his description, that makes this a wrong un. :thumbsdown:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Vintage Seiko 7A38 1/10th Analog Chronograph Watch, NR*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This auction is for a fairly rare vintage Seiko 1/10th second quartz chronograph, model *7A38-702H*. Considering its age, the watch is in overall good condition and operating properly (all dials and chronograph functions work correctly, all buttons push smoothly, etc). The watch is historically significant because these movements were some of the first all-analog quartz chronographs. The movement is a fully jeweled (15J) unit with all metal gears, designed for a long life. The watch features day and date windows within the right subdial. The right subdial records 1/10th second in the chronograph mode. The bottom subdial is constant seconds, and the left subdial is a 30 minutes register for the stopwatch. The center second hand is for chronograph seconds. The upper left button is a "split" stop for the chronograph. The dial and hands are in excellent condition. The crystal has a few scratches that are mostly noticed when they reflect off a light source. The crown and pushers all work properly. The case has some light scuffs and scratches, nothing too bad. The bezel has a tachmeter scale and is slightly faded. The watch is on an Orient bracelet, but it appears to be from the proper time period of the watch and works well with it. The bracelet will fit up to about a 7.25 inch wrist. Below the 12:00 marker the watch has a chrome "Seiko" marker that didn't show up well in the pictures, but it is there and in excellent condition. The case measures about 40mm in diameter (excluding crown and pushers). The screw-down case back has the Seiko wave logo and is marked "Water Resist St. Steel Base Metal Bezel *7A38-702H* A5" and also has a serial number. I'm sorry, but I don't have the case or instructions to go with it, but setting instructions are readily available online.
> 
> I try to describe items accurately, but please ask any questions you may have prior to bidding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And there's the 'gotcher'. Not only fairly beaten up looking, if truth be told, and on the wrong (Orient) bracelet ....
> 
> This watch is actually a 7A38-*7010*, and once looked like this: http://members.cox.net/watches-1/7A38_7010.html
> 
> So it's got the wrong case-back fitted (off a 7A38-702H), too. :hammer:
> 
> Might be useful for parts, but certainly not worth the opening bid price of $69.99, IMHO. :thumbsdown:
Click to expand...

Note the Q&A's at the bottom of the listing: http://contact.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ShowAllQuestions&ShowASQAlways=1&frm=284&iid=270807222050&ssPageName=PageAskSellerQuestion_VI&redirect=0&requested=bek

Plus the slight amendment(s) which the seller subsequently made to the description:



> ***Update*** I've added a picture that shows the "Seiko" on the dial in case anyone else thinks I'm trying to pass off an Orient as a Seiko (see question associated with the auction). You can also see that the day and date have changed properly since the original pictures when I listed the watch.
> 
> ***Another Update*** I've been told that the watch model is actually 7A38-7010, but that it is fitted with the wrong case-back off a 7A38-702H (see second question posted in the auction). I'm in no way an expert on these watches, so I have no reason to believe that's not the case. Since the watch at some point was fitted with an Orient bracelet it wouldn't surprise me that the case back was switched as well. Please consider this if you're thinking about bidding on the watch.


Wonder who that was ?


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## tixntox

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> re-quote my whole post in full.


So that's why my "scrolling" finger is getting RSI !









Mike


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## watchking1

Poor seller never knew what hit him...


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## jair1970

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEIKO-QUARTZ-CHRONOGRAPH-REF-7A38-7190-DA-TESTARE-/170690867906?pt=Orologi_da_Polso&hash=item27bdf7f2c2

Tricky to say if the postage represents good value here.

Beautiful example too. :dontgetit:


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## Neil2094

Just posting some thanks for the updates on this thread. I'm trying to find a decent 7A38 and this thread is proving to be very valuable.


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## tixntox

jair1970 said:


> Tricky to say if the postage represents good value here.


Not 'arf! :shocking:

Mike


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## SEIKO7A38

jair1970 said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEIKO-QUARTZ-CHRONOGRAPH-REF-7A38-7190-DA-TESTARE-/170690867906?pt=Orologi_da_Polso&hash=item27bdf7f2c2
> 
> Tricky to say if the postage represents good value here.
> 
> Beautiful example too. :dontgetit:


Not quite sure why you posted it in this particular thread, James :dontgetit: ....

Because this 7A38-7190 isn't a Franken as such - at least, from what you can see in the seller's poor photo:










What tickled me was the way he'd included 'DA TESTARE' (For Testing) in his eBay listing's title and description.

I wouldn't recommend testing it for water resistance - from the state of the dial, looks like somebody already did. 

Pushers look pretty gummed up / stuck in, too, so testing any chronograph functions might be 'problematic'. :rofl2:


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## jair1970

Not quite sure why you posted it in this particular thread, James :dontgetit: ....

There's a lot of 7A38 threads, alright!

Someone keeps starting them and contributing extensively towards them and you expect me to keep track!

Jeez...


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## SEIKO7A38

Neil2094 said:


> Just posting some thanks for the updates on this thread.


My pleasure, Neil. :hi:



Neil2094 said:


> I'm trying to find a decent 7A38 and this thread is proving to be very valuable.


Just promise me you'll stay well away from eBay item # 220862761397, then. :fear:



> *ALL ORIGINAL SEIKO 7A38-7070 CHRONOGRAPH MEN'S QUARTZ WATCH*














> DIAL Original dial in very good condition
> 
> HANDS Original
> 
> DAYDATE English and Roman wheel
> 
> BEZEL Original, rotates unidirectionally.
> 
> CROWN/PUSH BUTTONS Original
> 
> CRYSTAL Original, polished
> 
> CASE/COVER Original 40mm X 43mm stainless steel case buffed and polished
> 
> *BRACELET Original, will fit a 7.6 inch wrist*
> 
> MOVEMENT 7A38 Quartz Japan made movement
> 
> CONDITION Used, battery placed, functions checked, keeps time.


Apart from the whole thing having been polished to death, in true Filipino watch-botcher fashion :butcher: ....

It's *NOT* on the original bracelet (for this watch) as the eBay seller mis-leadingly states.









It's fitted with an incorrect Seiko p/n B1424S bracelet as can clearly be seen in two of the sellers own photos:



















The correct bracelet for a 7A38-7070 is Seiko p/n B1241S, which has a matt anodised silver finish,

as that watch also would originally have been, with what look like miniature hinges between the links.

Just like these 7A38-7070's (but ignore the one on the right ! )










Edit: Here's a better photo of a 7A38-7070 with the correct B1241S bracelet (middle one from that group photo above):


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> Just promise me you'll stay well away from eBay item # 220862761397, then. :fear:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ALL ORIGINAL SEIKO 7A38-7070 CHRONOGRAPH MEN'S QUARTZ WATCH*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BRACELET Original, will fit a 7.6 inch wrist*
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Anyone now viewing that eBay listing may note it has since been amended to read:



> *VINTAGE SEIKO 7A38-7070 CHRONOGRAPH MEN'S QUARTZ WATCH*





> *BRACELET Original Seiko bracelet but not to this model, will fit a 7.6 inch wrist*


I wonder how that happened ?


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38 said:


> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about a 'Franken' Yema Spationaute III :astro:, on that French 'Bay of Pirates', LeBonCoin.fr ? :artist:
> 
> Listed this afternoon: http://www.leboncoin.fr/montres_bijoux/230301542.htm?ca=1_s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ancienne montre YEMA Spationaute 3*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prix : *110 â‚¬* Ville : *42000 Saint-Etienne*
> 
> Montre franÃ§aise de la marque YEMA mod spationaute 3
> 
> Boitier acier diam 38 mm hors couronne .
> 
> Lunette tournante .
> 
> Mouvement quartz qui fonctionne parfaitement .
> 
> Envois par colissimo 7â‚¬ ou recommandÃ© 10â‚¬
> 
> Prix pas nÃ©gociable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which means that this one, priced (cheaply) to sell, will probably get snapped up in no time ....
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

That same 'Franken' Yema Spationaute III popped up on eBay France a couple of days ago:



> *ancienne montre YEMA spationaute 3 ARAGATZ -chronographe quartz*





































Different colour NATO :yucky: but the same serial number: 2 - 319. Note also the slightly stained movement back-plate. :fear:



> *Rare montre chronographe*
> 
> *
> **Y E M A*
> 
> spationaute 3
> 
> Montre de fabrication FranÃ§aise Ã la fin des annÃ©es 80.
> 
> ConÃ§u pour la mission dans l'espace France /Russie - ARAGATZ-
> 
> Boitier acier en bon Ã©tat , diam 39mm hors couronne . Lunette tournante
> 
> Mouvement quartz signÃ© SHIMAUCHI .ltd
> 
> Montre qui fonctionne parfaitement : dÃ©part chrono ,
> 
> remise a zÃ©ro, chang. date ect .... tout est opÃ©rationnel !!!
> 
> A remarquer que le verre a Ã©tÃ© changÃ© :
> 
> celui-ci est en plexis ,il prÃ©sente des Ã©raflures et il n'est pas d'origine !!
> 
> Vendu avec un bracelet "NATO" neuf .


Bearing in mind this is a 'Franken', there's no mention of the magic word 'RÃ©visÃ©e' in the description, funnily enough. 

I could have fancied it myself (for spare parts). :butcher: Pity someone's nicked the original crystal in the meantime. :disgust:


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## SEIKO7A38

Just in case anybody was browsing eBay Germany, and came across item # 270873108761 :search:

and thought they'd found a rare 7A38. :shocking: You haven't. :no: It's just another badly-built bitza Franken. :thumbsdown:



> *SEIKO Herren Chronograph*





































> *Beschreibung*
> 
> Seiko - Herrenchronograph - Nr. 706566
> 
> Werk: Caliber - Nr. 7230*
> 
> GehÃ¤Ã¼se und Band aus Stahl
> 
> Das Werk wurde revidiert - ist in einem Topzustand
> 
> Leichte Gebrauchsspuren


* (7A38) *723O* (XN14) is the dial number. 

Ergo from that, it's basically a two-tone silver-grey faced 7A38-727A, but fitted with an incorrect replacement crown ....

and what appear to be the wrong pushers (because they stick out a bit too far); a two-tone bracelet of unknown origin,

and also what appears from the seller's last photo to be the case-back off a Gunmetal / Gold two-tone 7A38-6080.

At the 49.00 Euros opening bid price, it might just be worth it - if you're planning to break it up for parts. :hammer:

Photos for reference:

My own two-tone 7A38-727A on the correct Seiko p/n B1615C bracelet is on the right:










Presuming I've read the case-back markings in the seller's last photo correctly :blind: the case-back is likely off one of these:


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## SEIKO7A38

SEIKO7A38 said:


> and also what appears from the seller's last photo to be the case-back off a Gunmetal / Gold two-tone 7A38-6080.
> 
> Presuming I've read the case-back markings in the seller's last photo correctly :blind: the case-back is likely off ....


Thought I was right. :smartass:

Just got my own Gunmetal 7A38-6080 out of the box, and apart from the serial number, the markings are identical. :thumbsup:

Here's one that was going cheap on eBay Germany back in April this year:



















What makes that particular 7A38-6080 case-back fairly unique is the combination of:

'BASE METAL ST. STEEL BACK' and '10 BAR' (to the right of the serial number) .... on a 'non-wave' plain case-back. :nerd:


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## dombox40

Crikey Paul you must be there worst nightmare for anybody selling a 7A38 on the bay still keeps them in line. :shocking:


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## SEIKO7A38

Rats ! :taz: In responding to Ken's post, I've gone and turned the page on myself ! :book:

So here's a copy and paste:



SEIKO7A38 said:


> Just in case anybody was browsing eBay Germany, and came across item # 270873108761 :search:
> 
> and thought they'd found a rare 7A38. :shocking: You haven't. :no: It's just another badly-built bitza Franken. :thumbsdown:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *SEIKO Herren Chronograph*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Beschreibung*
> 
> Seiko - Herrenchronograph - Nr. 706566
> 
> Werk: Caliber - Nr. 7230*
> 
> GehÃ¤Ã¼se und Band aus Stahl
> 
> Das Werk wurde revidiert - ist in einem Topzustand
> 
> Leichte Gebrauchsspuren
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> * (7A38) *723O* (XN14) is the dial number.
> 
> Ergo from that, it's basically a two-tone silver-grey faced 7A38-727A, but fitted with an incorrect replacement crown ....
> 
> and what appear to be the wrong pushers (because they stick out a bit too far); a two-tone bracelet of unknown origin,
> 
> and also what appears from the seller's last photo to be *is* ..... the case-back off a Gunmetal / Gold two-tone 7A38-6080.
> 
> At the 49.00 Euros opening bid price, it might just be worth it - if you're planning to break it up for parts. :hammer:
> 
> Photos for reference:
> 
> My own two-tone 7A38-727A on the correct Seiko p/n B1615C bracelet is on the right:
> 
> Presuming I've read the case-back markings in the seller's last photo correctly :blind: the case-back *is* likely off one of these:
Click to expand...




dombox40 said:


> Crikey Paul you must be their worst nightmare for anybody selling a 7A38 on the bay ....


It doesn't stop them cobbling these things together and trying to sell them to gullible punters. :no:

In fact, to be fair to this last one, given that the seller's title and description both lack the magic '7A38' word,

his eBay listing could hardly be construed as mis-representation - as unfortunately often is sadly the case. :thumbsdown:

Just trying to do my bit, to tell the readers 'how it is' - or, more to the point, how Yours Truly sees it.


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## seikool

Hi all, im new on here and would like to thank all users for info on seiko 7a38/28 movements. I caught the bug a few years ago when i picked up an RAF gen 1 seiko 7a28 from a bucket of watch parts at a bootsale for 20p, LOL! I have been gathering any parts/complete watches since. Anybody see the "Bishop 7a28" sell on ebay germany last week for Â£146, i lost bid by 1 euro and was nervous bidding higher as seller did'nt have paypal, im gutted, was a mint example. So, i have since bought 5 7a cases and a 7a38 7070 and 7a38 7080. I will be uploading images soon, including other watches and spares i have. :lookaround:


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## SEIKO7A38

seikool said:


> Hi all, im new on here and would like to thank all users for info on seiko 7a38/28 movements.


:welcome: to :rltb: - home of all things 7Axx ....

But please start your intro' in a new topic of your own, rather than 'adding a reply' to this thread. :wink2:



seikool said:


> Anybody see the "Bishop 7a28" sell on ebay germany last week for Â£146


A couple of us were certainly watching it.  http://cgi.ebay.de/itm/320807010859



seikool said:


> So, i have since bought 5 7a cases and a 7a38 7070 and 7a38 7080.


You also recently bought a Titanium 7A38-7120 for 45.50 Euros, if I'm not mistaken. :grin:


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## SEIKO7A38

I'm now quite relieved that I didn't go for a win on that Franken 38mm Yema Spationaute III (even to break it up for parts). :sweatdrop:



SEIKO7A38 said:


> SEIKO7A38 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SEIKO7A38Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about a 'Franken' Yema Spationaute III :astro:, on that French 'Bay of Pirates', LeBonCoin.fr ? :artist:
> 
> Listed this afternoon: http://www.leboncoin.fr/montres_bijoux/230301542.htm?ca=1_s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ancienne montre YEMA Spationaute 3*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prix : *110 â‚¬* Ville : *42000 Saint-Etienne*
> 
> Montre franÃ§aise de la marque YEMA mod spationaute 3
> 
> Boitier acier diam 38 mm hors couronne .
> 
> Lunette tournante .
> 
> Mouvement quartz qui fonctionne parfaitement .
> 
> Envois par colissimo 7â‚¬ ou recommandÃ© 10â‚¬
> 
> Prix pas nÃ©gociable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which means that this one, priced (cheaply) to sell, will probably get snapped up in no time ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That same 'Franken' Yema Spationaute III popped up on eBay France a couple of days ago:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ancienne montre YEMA spationaute 3 ARAGATZ -chronographe quartz*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Different colour NATO :yucky: but the same serial number: 2 - 319. Note also the slightly stained movement back-plate. :fear:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Rare montre chronographe*
> 
> *
> **Y E M A*
> 
> spationaute 3
> 
> Montre de fabrication FranÃ§aise Ã la fin des annÃ©es 80.
> 
> ConÃ§u pour la mission dans l'espace France /Russie - ARAGATZ-
> 
> Boitier acier en bon Ã©tat , diam 39mm hors couronne . Lunette tournante
> 
> Mouvement quartz signÃ© SHIMAUCHI .ltd
> 
> Montre qui fonctionne parfaitement : dÃ©part chrono ,
> 
> remise a zÃ©ro, chang. date ect .... tout est opÃ©rationnel !!!
> 
> A remarquer que le verre a Ã©tÃ© changÃ© :
> 
> celui-ci est en plexis ,il prÃ©sente des Ã©raflures et il n'est pas d'origine !!
> 
> Vendu avec un bracelet "NATO" neuf .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bearing in mind this is a 'Franken', there's no mention of the magic word 'RÃ©visÃ©e' in the description, funnily enough.
> 
> I could have fancied it myself (for spare parts). :butcher: Pity someone's nicked the original crystal in the meantime. :disgust:
Click to expand...

Yesterday, the winning bidder (Dominique M) posted a wanted ad on ForumaMontres: http://forumamontres.forumactif.com/t117765-cherche-couronne-vissee-pour-yema-spationaute-iii



> *Cherche Couronne vissÃ©e pour YEMA SPATIONAUTE III*
> 
> bonjour,
> 
> pour une YEMA SPATIONAUTE III en cours de restauration, je recherche une couronne vissÃ©e (ou une info pour en trouver une ...)
> 
> contact par mp ou dominique.moniez2(arobase)wanadoo.fr
> 
> merci


In hindsight, looking again at the second of the photos from the original leboncoin advert ....

It becomes obviously apparent, that apart from the 'Franken' issue, this watch also had a b*ggered screw-down crown. 

Been there once before already. :fear: Need Help With Sourcing A Screw-Down Crown Bon Chance, Dominique.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

I suppose I ought to flag up these couple of recent UK eBay listings ....

If for no other reason than I know a certain other forum member has been looking at them. :wink2:

There's a fairly new (to me, and 7A38's at least) eBay watch dealer who's popped up recently in the UK - Kaos121 ....

apparently an apt choice of user ID. Chaos indeed. 

The first 7A38 he listed was a gunmetal two-tone 7A38-725A, and no real problems with that.

Just that I happened to note he included in his description for that one, the following sentence:



> *I guarantee all watches offered for sale are genuine and authentic (unless stated otherwise).*


The next one which followed a day later was item # 250965487720.



> *Rare Seiko Gents Chronograph,stainless/gold case & bracelet, **7A38-7060** Lot26*












This is clearly *NOT* a 7A38-7060, by any stretch of the imagination, but a two-tone 7A38-*7270*.

See this old thread on WUS, with a few photos of a fairly familiar one: *FS: Seiko 7A38-7270 Chronograph*

His latest offering, yesterday was item # 250966128062:



> *Seiko Gents Chronograph gold plated case, brown leather strap **7A38-7270** Lot31*












Although the basic watch case shape may be the same (as the previous incorrectly identified 7A38-7270) ....

it might not be obvious to everybody, but this (once) was a gold-tone 7A38-*7190* - like this (my own mint example):

Now whether this seller is being deceptive, or is just plain dis-organised and / or dyslexic ....

and has just put new batteries in a few 7A38's, and got their case-backs mixed up, I wouldn't like to hazard a guess. :umnik2:

All I can say, is if you're planning to bid on these two ....

or his presumably next 7A38-7060 (which, if and when it materializes may likely be fitted with a 7A38-7190 case-back) ....

You might want to ask a question (or two) of the seller, first. Caveat Emptor, Gentlemen. :hi:


----------



## zenomega

Thanks for another important heads up Paul :thumbup: I had put these on my watching list on ebay. Its a bl**dy minefield out there init???

Dave


----------



## SEIKO7A38

zenomega said:


> Its a bl**dy minefield out there init???


It can be, Dave - for the un-initiated. :grin: There are 80-odd known *legitimate* permutations of 7A38-xxxx out there.

Then you stumble across the un-documented versions like my recently acquired gold-tone 7A38-706A. 

Which I'm still not ashamed to admit, I first thought was actually a franken when I bought it. :duh:

Hence the (sub)title I intially gave the thread: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=71380



> Sometimes These Things Just Gotta Be Done. A somewhat belated Heads-up on a 7A38 Franken


----------



## Krispy

I should know better than to post a link to a live ebay auction, but in the interest of balance and fairness, the description of this listing is worth reading :yes:

http://www.ebay.co.u...#ht_1501wt_1396



> If you have any reservations about the authenticity of this watch, I suggest you read http://www.thewatchf...ndpost&p=721705 where member seiko7a38 has kindly included a lot of information to help you with your decision of whether to purchase or not. The information has several errors in it, but obviously, he is welcome to his opinion. I just wish he was courteous enough to reply to my email to him, but, well......... Maybe he just wants to put people off so he can get them cheap himself?


----------



## Silver Hawk

KrispyDK said:


> I should know better than to post a link to a live ebay auction, but in the interest of balance and fairness, the description of this listing is worth reading :yes:
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.u...#ht_1501wt_1396
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you have any reservations about the authenticity of this watch, I suggest you read http://www.thewatchf...ndpost&p=721705 where member seiko7a38 has kindly included a lot of information to help you with your decision of whether to purchase or not. The information has several errors in it, but obviously, he is welcome to his opinion. I just wish he was courteous enough to reply to my email to him, but, well......... Maybe he just wants to put people off so he can get them cheap himself?
Click to expand...

Sort of makes me feel sorry for the seller....it's not easy being a seller on eBay with a one-way feedback system.


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Silver Hawk said:


> Sort of makes me feel sorry for the seller....it's not easy being a seller on eBay with a one-way feedback system.


Take pity on the poor maligned eBay seller, trying to make a decent quick profit peddling their misrepresented dross to the unwary masses.

My heart bleeds for them (not). But it looks like someone is still making an effort to keep them honest. Check out eBay item 190723517937.












> *According to eBay members description: "Franken made up from a 7A38-7060 case and bracelet with a 7A38-7010 dial and case-back"*


----------

