# Pacermatic Conversions



## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Is a conversion the same as a fake? :huh: In the examples below, could well be :fear: ...

I guess most people on the Forum know I service electric and electronic watches and I usually try to have a turn around time of 2-3 weeks but this job took....18 months...not due to me I might add. And Fred The Customer (name changed to protect The Faker :lol has given me permission to publish my photos of his fakes watches.

The Hamilton Pacer is a well known electric; tens of thousands were made in the 1960s and it was extremely popular. But they also produced an automatic version known as the Pacermatic. This is a much rarer watch and houses their Cal. 667 movement, which is equally rare.

Fred wanted me to build two Pacermatics from two Pacers...and he provided all the parts with the exception of the movement rings and hands.

It took 18 months due to the dial refinishers. They needed to take two Pacer dials, move the dial feet to a position suitable for a Cal. 667 and then repaint the dials in the style of Pacermatics. I think they normally wait until they have a few to do...so in the case of Pacermatics, we could have been waiting for years...so maybe 18 months isn't too bad.

Next the movements. Fred sent across (he's from US) several donor Cal. 667 movements as well as a couple of Cal. 661 ones. All was going great until I realized that, with the exception of one, all had broken second hand posts . Fred sent more 661/667 movements, again, all with broken posts --- this is clearly a weak spot on this movement.

But I did manage to work out that the second hand wheel in a 661 is the same as a 667...which was good news since there were several 661 movements on ebay and some still had their second hand in place which meant the posts were ok.  One was bought and we then had 2 x Cal. 667 up and running.

And so to the pictures. There are two ways to tell these did not leave the Hamilton factory as Pacermatics. 1) examination of the back of the dial will reveal marks where the dial feet used to be for a 505 electric movement and 2) the case numbers correspond to ranges used by electric watches. Plus, I'm not sure they ever did a copper faced Pacermatic --- Fred chose the dial colours.

So conversions or fakes? I don't really care...I just carried out what Fred asked for...but I think the end result is great and I'd love to own one of these in my collection but sadly I could not persuade him to part with one .


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## stefano34 (Sep 27, 2009)

love the black dialled one it's a beaut.


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## Vaurien (Jul 19, 2010)

A pink Pace! :man_in_love:

I need one :wub:


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## bsa (Dec 23, 2010)

I wonder if you have to take intention into consideration when labeling something a fake. This man is obviously not going to sell for profit, has also invested a lot of money to have something he likes. These are often called specials or customs in the bike world not fakes.


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

Really Excellent Job, I would say conversion or Evolution is better 

That pink dial is something else.... real top drawer quality, along with the black one. It's good to see all these special skills still exist today in this modern "through away" culture


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## FuriousPig (Jun 17, 2009)

I agree with bsa, it's all about intention & clearly this has not been done with the intent to deceive.

The purist in me laments the loss of 2 pacers. However, realistically, this is only a step up from replacing a 500 movement with a 505 or even assembling a whole watch out of various salvaged parts.

As a result you have produced two rather beautiful looking watches & I think anyone would be pleased to own one (unlucky on the acquisition but I'm sure you will have the bits to make your own).

Congratulations on the completion of your saga but I think everyone would agree it was well worth the time & effort.

On a side note can you recommend a good dial refinisher? I have a couple of watches that I bought with poorly done dials & need a much better job doing.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Love the copper dial Paul, a beauty :man_in_love:

Validity? They are as valid as any re-build can be, all original parts re-furbished and cased up, tested and timed by an Hamilton expert - what more could you want? The other option is you have four scrapped watches, or two working re-builds. :yes:

Been thinking about all those nice SMITHS jewelled meovemnets (and other makes) showing up cheap on the bay as the Gold cases are scrapped for the gold content - wouldn't they be a nice upgrade for older same size SMITHS swtandard cases? Same thing really


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## martinus_scriblerus (Sep 29, 2008)

Let's call it a Custom.

I have done this myself, with a Wittnauer Futurama. All Futuramas had gold electroplated cases. I had one done up with a "silver case" (I had it Rhodium plated) and a customer black and silver dial.

The salmon coloured dial is certainly a "custom" as Hamilton never made this dial colour. The black one is more of a problem because they WERE made by Hamilton, but it is easily identified as not having originally been sold as an automatic because the case serial number will not be in the right range.

So, all o.k. by me. Incidentally, there were over 66,000 Pacers made, easily the most of any Hamilton Electric according to Rene Rondeau's "The Watch of the Future" (a copy of which you can buy here:)

I don't see the loss of a couple of these to be a great sacrifice.


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## AlexC1981 (Jul 26, 2009)

I'd like to try on the copper one. It's really nice.

I would prefer the convenience of an automatic rather than battery powered, but it does seem like Fred has gone to a lot of trouble to produce something, not much different from the standard piece. Apart from that lovely copper dial, of course.


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## Cameron (Mar 2, 2011)

Wow that black one is a real show stopper. Would look great on the wrist at an elegant party, at a date or a dinner somewhere.

But to the point in question. Are they "fakes"? Short answer "yes" long answer "Not really - its a conversion" or a true tribute watch.

Whatever you end up classifying it as - the workmanship looks brilliant. I am sure that he was very happy with it.


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## Sisyphus (Jun 3, 2009)

I'm with M.S. on this issue. And these two watches are beauties.

A question: given the rarity of the grade 667 movement, would a 661 movement work for a "custom" Pacermatic?

Just curious, as I happen to have a Pacer case and a spare 661 movement!


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Sisyphus said:


> A question: given the rarity of the grade 667 movement, would a 661 movement work for a "custom" Pacermatic?


I'm sure a 661 would work. I no longer have a 661 and 667 in front of me, so I can't compare dial feet positions but I bet they were the same as each other. And as I found, the main wheels were interchangeable.


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

They cant be fake as PG would have deleted the thread by now........ :bag: :lol:

Great work Hawkey :thumbsup:


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## hamiltonelectric (Feb 27, 2010)

The only real difference between the 661 and 667 is the weight and contour of the auto rotor. All regular movement parts interchange.


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