# Electric Clock Rewinds.



## Dr pepper (Jul 1, 2011)

I have a few mains electric synchronous clocks, and being 50+ years old I dont leave them plugged in long for safety reasons.

Being eletrically biased I tried an experiment on a naff looking ferranti just to see if I could get the clock to run off 12vac.

A couple of attempts later and it works well.

I was just wondering about the impact on the desireability and value of an older more valuable piece, the mods can easily be undone and the original parts kept with the clock, I realise that fitting a quartz movement would have a similar effect on value as smacking the clock with a lumphammer, but this way the piece is safe to run and keeps most of its originality.

I also have plans to synchronize the ac to the msf radio time signal, if I decide to convert my other clocks too.


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## sam. (Mar 24, 2010)

Hi Doc,as long as the work can be undone,with no damage to the clock,you could try a vintage elecromagnetic/electronic movement,and still have a sweep second hand,not the same fluid sweep as an electric clock of course,but the same as a mechanical one.

I've picked a few of these up at car bootsales,here's a couple of picks.

Sam. :cheers:

Note wrong batteries,changed since.

This one is in a Junghans electronic wall clock.




























And another in a Metamic carrige clock,on the left.


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## Dr pepper (Jul 1, 2011)

Theanks for the photo's and not a bad idea, and that way as you said you get the same motion on the second hand as a mechanical movement, though to be honest I really want to keep the original movement as close as possible.

A vintage movement is a good idea though, it wouldnt look so obvious as a brand new movement.

That said you can get smooth sweep movements now, I was given a replica smiths wall clock a while back, it has one from a distance you cant tell.

P.S. how did you get the clear case so clean, all the ones I've come accross have been yellowed.


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## sam. (Mar 24, 2010)

I would have thought that would be a very draining on the battery to have a quartz sweep hand?

It wasn't me,the junghans clock movement was very clean,unlike the Kienzle movement in the Metamic..battery acid dirt and stained,it took me seven hours to clean that clock,i remember it well,and so do my fingers. :sweatdrop:


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## Dr pepper (Jul 1, 2011)

I thought it'd kill the battery too, been in a few weeks so far, its a new clock.

The clock is a 'jones', probably to rhyme with smiths, and also on the face it says 'electric', obviously a chinese copy of the smiths wallclock, its not that good as it runs fast.

You can get silent smooth sweep movements off ebay, I think they are built to be silent rather than copy a synchro clock.

I spose with a good pair of hands or the originals you could make something like a mains driven clock battery powered and still look right with a smooth sweep, but its not my kind of thing, I also collect vintage radio's, I wouldnt want to bolt a tranny into one of my old sets.


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## sam. (Mar 24, 2010)

Dr pepper said:


> I thought it'd kill the battery too, been in a few weeks so far, its a new clock.
> 
> The clock is a 'jones', probably to rhyme with smiths, and also on the face it says 'electric', obviously a chinese copy of the smiths wallclock, its not that good as it runs fast.
> 
> ...


Talking about old electronics,i just gave a double guitar amplifier to my youngest brother,an old impact from the 50's,the valves take about thirty seconds to warm up once you've flicked the switch,its amazing its lasted so long with all that glass inside,i gave him the matching column speakers to go with it too,great sound,that you just can't reproduce with a transistor amp,and new equipment.


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

Interesting stuff here..........Running on a mains adapter down to 12vac you should not need to syncronise with the Rugby MSF signal as it is the 50 cycles a second which keep the clock accurate, you may notice a time differnce by a few seconds, but this catches up overnight, due to the Power Stations when running high demand will operate down to 46 cycles a second as they can maintain output better, and then at night they ramp up the frequency to 54 - 55 cycles so all the "timed" equipment that uses the cycles frequency remains accurate.

In older Power staions you will see a massive analogue clock showing the frequency output in the control room.

Good point about keeping the movements genuine. I was going to buy a delicious early massive Slave clock which was very deco in design but they had swopped the slave movement for a large quartz one AND had changed the hands to simply spade ones. I told the chap i would have bought it but he had trashed it by converting it......... Stupid Boy.....


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## Dr pepper (Jul 1, 2011)

Valve amps can sound good, depending on what type it is they do need a little maintenance, biasing is very important on ones with a bias control.

Some tubes can take 2 minutes to warm up.

I have used a power analyser here at work as part of a power saving project recently, our mains varies voltage wise, but frequency seems very accurate, 49.2 I seem to remember was the biggest deviation.

We are supplied via Heysham power station which is a modern plant, so they probably have decent control gear.

I was thinking of builing a power supply I could plug 3 or 4 clocks into that is synced to the MSF signal, not so much because mains is inaccurate, just so that they will be second accurate all day, maybe its a retentive thing.

And yes ripping old movements out of vintage clocks is not a good idea, unless you keep all the original movement and dont mod the housing the impact on value and desireablility to a collector would have a similar effect as driving over them with a tractor.


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

Hi Dr. Pepper, yes very interesting on the clock syncronising. I think someone did something similar on a Master clock which had a waiting train and the MSF signal triggered it once an hour to correct it. It's in an old "Clocks" publication, can dig it out for you if your interested......

Good to see your project on electrical testing, electricity has always fascinated me. Standing in a Turbine hall right next to 2000 MW being generated at full power with everything shaking, including the floor, is very awe inspiring, and deafening even with ear defenders. It might be interesting if you measured the mains frequency at about 7.20pm on a Monday or Wednesday at the end of Coronation Street and then see what happens when it ends and 10 million people go out to put the kettle on........you should get a good variation then.

Your mains supply probably comes from the "National Grid"........ unless you have a direct supply from the Power Station for "experiments" of a confidential nature....... cough cough.... they would then be able to give a good "clean" 3 phase supply and good frequency very close to 50 hz. Do you use an Oscillascope to see the AC waveform? I know some in Hi-Fi circles use a power regenerator to get better sound as the voltage can be quite messy and noisy in some homes, or DC on the line causing amplifier hum apparently.......

I did use some valve amps but gone back to solid state, although i do love the sound of vinyl and prefer records to CD, are you into Hi-fi as well? Hope the clock idea's work out for you


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## Dr pepper (Jul 1, 2011)

harryblakes7 said:


> Hi Dr. Pepper, yes very interesting on the clock syncronising. I think someone did something similar on a Master clock which had a waiting train and the MSF signal triggered it once an hour to correct it. It's in an old "Clocks" publication, can dig it out for you if your interested......
> 
> Good to see your project on electrical testing, electricity has always fascinated me. Standing in a Turbine hall right next to 2000 MW being generated at full power with everything shaking, including the floor, is very awe inspiring, and deafening even with ear defenders. It might be interesting if you measured the mains frequency at about 7.20pm on a Monday or Wednesday at the end of Coronation Street and then see what happens when it ends and 10 million people go out to put the kettle on........you should get a good variation then.
> 
> ...


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## Dr pepper (Jul 1, 2011)

Yes the circuit is comming along, its very simple.

I'm not into hi-fi, I find a lot of the subject involves what I would call old wives tales.

I do have a collection of vintage radios, the sound or problems of an amplifier depends on the design, regardless of the technology, older sets need maintenance to keep them sounding well.

(P.S. I wasnt aware I'd posted the above quote)


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## synchro (Sep 22, 2006)

If you really want to know

Grid Frequency


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## Dr pepper (Jul 1, 2011)

35 gigawatt demand.

That'd be a big 3 pin plug.


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

Crumbs, what you running, the Starship Enterprise?? Or perhaps the Hadron Collider?? 

Am surprised one power station can supply you, it must still pull off the grid. Even Drax power station is only 3960MW

35 Gigawatts is a lot.......... scary







Perhaps it is a 5 Pin plug? 

Hope the clock project works out for you.....


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

Just looked on the National grid and the current ( excuse the pun ) consumption for the UK is 27 gigawatts ( 27360MW ) and some of that is being pulled off France. You sure you got the decimal point in the right place and not 3.5 Gigawatts??

If your right, well, i don't wanna know..........


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

The Grid RTFD chart is usually an excellent indicator of what's actually happening at the "sharp end" as far as Mains Frequency is concerned, certainly that's what we consulted in "the trade" apart from the Frequency indicators in the substations and control rooms. :yes:

And take it from me and Harry, you learn a healthy respect for 'trickery when you work at distribution levels, yes indeedy :fear: Watching an arc jump six feet or more is slightly underpant stretching if you're a bit close and it's pissing down drizzle :thumbsdown:

:weed: ldman:


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

Yep, i've been there, in the rain, at the back of a power station under the "output" section with everything crackling, standing on a lorry, thinking, i'm gonna die, i'm gonna die........ have seen something similar to this below, needless to say a new pair of underpants were required........


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

Anyway, to get back on topic here is a nice electric clock i would not mind buying, very clever with electronics....


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

harryblakes7 said:


> Yep, i've been there, in the rain, at the back of a power station under the "output" section with everything crackling, standing on a lorry, thinking, i'm gonna die, i'm gonna die........ have seen something similar to this below, needless to say a new pair of underpants were required........


That's a "crackler" that is Harry, hairs on the arms standing upright I bet!  Guys, I tend to go on a bit about folks poking electrickery when they don't know what they are doing, but when you've seen a few of these, and folks who got caught up in 'em, it's not a game! :to_become_senile:

Same thing applies further down the Volts and Amps scales, don't mess with what you don't know about









Harry will be like myself, he'll risk assess *every* situation involving electricity, even down to low voltage DC batteries, if you're certificated as an "Authorised Person" you learn to approach it all with some considerable degree of care! - if you can't do that, you may not last long! :angel:


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## Dr pepper (Jul 1, 2011)

mel said:


> harryblakes7 said:
> 
> 
> > Yep, i've been there, in the rain, at the back of a power station under the "output" section with everything crackling, standing on a lorry, thinking, i'm gonna die, i'm gonna die........ have seen something similar to this below, needless to say a new pair of underpants were required........
> ...


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## Dr pepper (Jul 1, 2011)

35 gigs was on the frequency page linked to further up, as the demand for the UK.

I understand the situations you were talking about, I have a high voltage certificate.

I think we are deviating somewhat from clocks.

If I cant touch what I dont know about I'd better not mess with these ticky things then.


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## harryblakes7 (Oct 1, 2010)

Ah, clocks are fun!! go on, have a play and a tinker, it's a great stress calmer and very relaxing! and no chance of an arc flash!! :thumbup:

There is quite a bit of leg pulling and banter on this forum, don't be put off by us whinging, apologies if it came over wrong, we don't get out much.... :yes:


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## Benicole (Jul 30, 2011)

Do you know where I can get hold of a movement, like the one pictured, for a Junghans starburst clock?


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## Benicole (Jul 30, 2011)

Does anyone know where I can get hold of an electronic clock movement like the Junghans one pictured above?


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## Dr pepper (Jul 1, 2011)

That allright Harry, maybe I was being miserable.

Benicole I think the chap who posted the photos was saying that the movement came from a boot sale or similar, theres a smiths sectronic movement clock on ebay right now but thats probably no use.

Try the for sale wanted section.


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