# Worth the Risk?



## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Seiko dive fans, reckon these are worth the risk? Interesting history!

2 for 1 ?


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

PG,

Could be total bull****.









How much to get 'em fixed?

Do you really want them?

My advice:-

Stuff ebay and all it's friends in China and the horse it rode in on. And f*** all ebay sellers, as ebay rightly says.









No disrespect to the few honest ones.

Buy your watches from Roy, and stop pissing about. In my very humble opinion. 

Your loyal mate,

Stan.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Inclined to agree with Stan.

These older watches often need significant work. The 150M Divers I got off Roy was almost a totally new watch being largely rebuilt. This is now an excellent watch thanks to Roy, but do you honestly think you will get one as good off Ebay in the way shown. I think not.

If you like these get one from here like I did!!!


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

> Buy your watches from Roy, and stop pissing about. In my very humble opinion





> This is now an excellent watch thanks to Roy, but do you honestly think you will get one as good off Ebay in the way shown. I think not.
> 
> If you like these get one from here like I did!!!


Too late all sold now.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Interesting reply Stan  Anything to do with the Vertex?

Just pondering these go for about Â£100 in good working condition, upto Â£150 if A1.

If you get both of these for say Â£50, and find they don't take much to get them going then they could be a bargain.

However I've stopped myself buying non runners just on the off chance because it seems that no matter how many times people put "I know nothing about watches, they may only need a service" I always get the impression they know exactly that the piece of crap they are selling is shagged but are hoping that some mug will think they are getting a bargain!

Mind you irrelevant now as he's ended the sale early. Had this happen a lot lately, usually on N/R items that have not reached anywhere near what the seller was obviously hoping for.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

> Interesting reply Stan Anything to do with the Vertex?





















> Mind you irrelevant now as he's ended the sale early.


This should not be allowed, thats what reserve prices are for.

Glad I gave up on Ebay years ago.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

PG,

Yes, it has everything to do with Vertex and one or two other things. Had the seller not been honest I would have lost money I could not afford to.

It has a lot to do with the moon watch book also.

But, it has a lot more to do with not wanting to see good people get ripped off. Let the buyer beware is all well and good, but remember buyers deserve to be properly treated, as you did when you sold on eBay a few weeks ago. Not all people are as honourable as you, Paul.

Buying from Roy is safe, a watch is serviced and guaranteed and the support second to none. Roy was very sympathetic when I told him about the Vertex but he could do little to help. He would never sell a watch in that condition without truthfully describing it.

You asked if it was â€œworth the riskâ€, Iâ€™ve learned that it is not. But, we are all big lads and can decide for ourselves.

Thatâ€™s just my opinion, old mate.

I hope your deals on ebay are all good ones.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

At the end of the day you get what you pay for.

A watch service can cost anything from Â£50 up to Â£150.

I get phone calls every day from people asking how much to service their Ebay bargains. I tell them that I don't do it anymore but it would probably cost them X amount of pounds. Their reply " Bloody 'el I only paid Â£20 for the watch from Ebay".

I say "Yes well thats why it was only Â£20",


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Ebay is little more than a Sunday boot sale.

You have to sift through a lot of old tat before you find any genuine bargains, by which time you wonder if it was all worth it.


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## JayGee (Feb 26, 2003)

Roy said:


> A watch service can cost anything from Â£50 up to Â£150.
> 
> I get phone calls every day from people asking how much to service their Ebay bargains. I tell them that I don't do it anymore but it would probably cost them X amount of pounds. Their reply " Bloody 'el I only paid Â£20 for the watch from Ebay".


Well quite, but as long as you bear that in mind when bidding and don't spend more than you can afford to shrug your shoulders and walk away from it's not a big deal, can be good fun, and (particularly with the vintage stuff) will turn up the odd gem that you'd just never get any other way...

Examples: That square Longines I posted a picture of recently cost me ~Â£45, turned out to be a non-runner, but after adding on the Â£45 it cost to get serviced I have an extremely attractive, quality, unique (well I've never seen another) watch from a blue-chip maker for less than 100 quid. I've got a '64 (M4) gold-filled 23J Bulova automatic (very pretty apart from some light damage to the lugs where some ignorant bugger's had a metal bracelet on it but runs fast) which again I paid ~Â£40 - again adding in the ~Â£65 I've been quoted for a service I'm perfectly happy with that. I've just "won" another Bulova 23J auto and I think that if I need to have that one serviced I'll have paid a bit over the odds for that, but it's one of the "Mystery Dial" ones (Roy had one a while back and I'm still kicking myself for not snapping it up...) - how many of those do you see, and if I hadn't snapped it up how long would I have waited for one to turn up with a reputable dealer?

Not so much a case of buyer beware as buyer be aware, don't spend more than you can afford to lose, and be prepared for the odd disapointment. I still find Ebay good fun, I've had some good stuff from there (the Accutron 219 for ~Â£50 for instance), and, at my price point it's damned good fun waiting for the parcels and then ripping them open to see what I've got...


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## Fred (Feb 23, 2003)

JayGee, i think your right, i have had many good bargains/deals off ebay and will continue to use it. one or two condem it now but did not before when they where buying and selling on ebay, in the end it's down to the bidder and what he ask's the seller along with what's been printed in the sale, mind one or two on here might be right and the other two or three million on ebay could be wrong.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Fred,

I don't think there's a right or wrong here, just a matter of personal choice.

Opinions are simply that, nothing more.

Living in this wonderful country we have the right to choose how to spend our money, that's what is important. IMVHO.


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

I bought this for Â£26 the other day, not here yet but it (allegedly







) works and the date change is fine. The bent second hand indicates it might still be alive.

Any one any idea if this movement or, more to the point, the date wheel, would fit a Tissot Tissonic?

I reckon for this kind of money the risk is worth taking. I am sure if I want to put this one on the bay I'd get my money back more or less with the help of a more informative ad / better pics.

Hummer


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Si, if its the same movement then it will fit but there is no guarantee that it is any better than yours until it arrives.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Fred wrote :



> one or two condem it now but did not before when they where buying and selling on ebay












I was young and foolish,


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Fred said:


> mind one or two on here might be right and the other two or three million on ebay could be wrong.


 I wonder how many millions don't use ebay


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## Fred (Feb 23, 2003)

Si, i had a look at that watch myself, glad you got it and hope it's o.k.

Stan, the post was nothing to do with having the right to spend your money how you like, i would be the first person to agree with that. it was really about condeming some thing out of hand just because some people can't get it right, just because Andy got stung once or twice he condems ebay as a car boot sale, instead of asking himself if he should be playing on there in the first place,  , cheers fred.


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Car boot sales round here used to be quite good.

Me and the Mrs. used to go to Greenwich market every Sunday without fail.

However over a period of time it has de generated.

It is now a tacky 1/2 price sale market where traders, rather than enthusiasts, flog off new gear they have bought on the cheap.

You used to find nice old watches, but now tyou more likely to get Â£5.00 cheapies, (two for Â£8.00)

Thats my point about ebay. The same thing has happened.

In essence it's a good thing but I think it's been taken over by dodgy traders, such as the one's selling readily available Moonwatch books as "rare items" at 300% profit. Like your old mate was doing Fred


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## Fred (Feb 23, 2003)

Like i said before, if you dont know what your doing dont play on there, [it was YOU that bought the book, and then thanked him for it] not me,














.

my Â£60 still in my pocket














. b.f.n. fred.


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Fred said:


> Like i said before, if you dont know what your doing dont play on there, [it was YOU that bought the book, and then thanked him for it] not me,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Judging by that reaction it's very clear to me that you are on the side of the dodgy ebay sellers. Perhaps you are one of them.

The way you promote ebay on this forum makes me wonder.

Any way I'll stop "playing" on ebay the day you stop pretending to be a biker


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

I got the Invicta because I could with a new date wheel for a Tissonic - if the Invicta movement is (as the seller says) the same as that in his Zenith then it should fit - that's my theory anyway.

So I wasn't interested in the watch itself, but you never know it might be OK.


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## Fred (Feb 23, 2003)

I am on the side of personel choice, freedom to pick and choose as and when, your post show you for what you are, a silly little person.


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Fred said:


> I am on the side of personel choice, freedom to pick and choose as and when, your post show you for what you are, a silly little person.


 AH.........









Hand on heart....

Shot sdown in flames..

What can I say.

After all your moralising lectures on spitting the dummy your doing it as well.

Personal insults from Mr. Fred. I'm really hurt


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Not again lads, please.


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Don't worry PG.

I just expressed my opinion that ebay is an online boot sale. I'm entitled to my opinion and thats it.

I really don't take this person seriously enough to be offended by him anyway.


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## Fred (Feb 23, 2003)

YAWN, YAWN,

P.S thanks for the off post messages chaps,














.


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Fred said:


> P.S thanks for the off post messages chaps,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I think you mean

OFF FORUM






























Fred contact me off forum OK.

If you have any guts which I doubt we'll do this face to face OK.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Ebay? I love it, never had so much fun









I buy maybe 5 watches a month, I am talking Â£10/Â£30 watches here, nothing expensive. On recieving them I probably intend to keep 1 out of every 25, I

bang the rest back on the bay or swap with friends. Great fun, I get to handle loads of oddballs and bet over the past 2 years I am no more than Â£100 down on ALL the trades, cheap hobby or what?


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

I suppose it depends on your personal experiences.

My favourite watches are vintage Seiko Chrono's.

I prefer to buy watches from Roy because I have found that his prices are only a little above the ebay average for these and sometimes lower









I get a watch that has been thoroughly inspected and tested before it goes in the post and I know that I have the back up of an experienced technician should I have any problems.

I can see the appeal of ebay to those who enjoy the thrill of the chase and have the time and patience to sift through all the rubbish to find something half decent, and at the prices MarkF is buying at there is no real risk.

I have done it myself.

I have even sold a motorbike on ebay.

It can be fun and productive but I now buy my watches soley from Roy because it's a safe option that doesn't cost much more, if anything at all.

I know that one person in particular finds that laughable but the fact is that if I go through my watch collection, which is a fair amount, the real bargain gems I have are all from RLT.

Thats not sucking up. Simply FACT.


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

I agree that buying from Ebay is much riskier than buying from Roy, of course. It has been said before, but worth repeating: it is probably unwise to spend any money on Ebay unless you can afford to lose it.

Good Seiko chronos are rare on Ebay - and as you say Roy's prices are often not much higher. But a lot of people like them. Good examples of some less desirable watches can still sometimes be seen at decent prices.

I like Ebay, its been interesting selling the half dozen or so that I have sold. It gets your item seen by vast numbers of people (if you add a counter to your page you can see this).

I love browsing to see what is around out there - I have seen many nice watches that I would never have known existed even though I regularly visit quite a few well known watch sites.

Just go to "Going going gone", watch section and you can see that 99% of the watches are cheap tat, crap fakes, non-runners or as rough as a badger's arse. But it is very rare that you don't see something really nice within the first few pages.

There are some great watches on there, but it is rare to get them at a bargain price. I see it as somewhere to see an example of practically anything you could want.

Apart from one, I have recovered my outlay (or better, slightly) on those I have sold. I am not seeking vast profits, just to get my money or some of it back on those watches that I just never wear or have gone off.


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Andy, you are partly right, maybe 18 months ago Ebay had a watch section of which 90% interested me. This was due to all the rubbish (car boot stuff if you like) being on the now defunct Yahoo (no charge) auctions. With the demise of Yahoo auctions all the junk, scammers and idiots simply transferred to Ebay, I agree, now 75% of the listed watch items are trash.

Still....I like and enjoy handling the goods and at those prices it is good fun.

You sold a motorbike? I think you have got to have a screw loose to spend good money (Â£100+ in my book) on an unseen watch on Ebay. But who the hell buys a bike unseen







I am not suggesting you are a scammer







but I've taken a comb and magnifying glass to every bike I've ever bought!!

What was it?

BTW I reckon I need at least Â£5 before springtime to get my beemer before the summer price surge, I'm now up to Â£2.8k, if I fall short it'll be a watch buying frenzy and cheap ride for me







Good for Roy though!


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

MarkF said:


> BTW I reckon I need at least Â£5 before springtime to get my beemer before the summer price surge,


Ooops Â£5? Trashed your pride and joy























I meant,of course, Â£5k, bloody hell, they are not the most popular of bikes but boy

do they hold their value! I don't think they're worth it mind, but comfort myself with the fac that people fork out the same amount for HD Sportsters


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Agree with Mark F

Got about 50 watches all sat in front of me at the mo and am busy going through them to see which ones I'm gonna sell. Poss all but 5 of them!

I now know what I like, what is worth having a go at and what to leave well alone (Only took 8 months).

We're all gonna get bitten once or twice (Stan's Vertex for one, at least he got his money back).

What I will do when I sell is try and be honest, and not rip people off. I also hate excesive P&P charges.

Worst so far was a Â£3.50 P&P that arrived with a 42p stamp on it. The seller said it was to cover for his "time"!

If they have a big P&P charge I always check to see if it's insured or recorded before hand now.


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Mark

I sold an NTV650 as a non runner, for parts or restoration. I was totally honest in my description and had loads of enquiries about it..

I bought it last year to use as a Winter hack but when the MOT came up it needed loads of money spending and a gearbox re-con, which in itself was no problem as I would have done most of the work myself, I just don't have the time.

I just took a pot shot on ebay starting at a hundred quid with no reserve.

It sold for 450 which was only 100 less than what I paid.

It was nice cosmetically and the guy that bought it was a mechanic looking for a Winter project. He was jumping for joy when he saw it. I do agree with you though. Anyone who is going to spend thousands on a decent vehicle probably doesn't look on ebay.

Regarding the BMW Cruiser.

At this time of year you can pick up a decent R-S plate, fully loaded and with ABS and stupidly low mileage for around four and a half grand. I reckon thats very much worth the money.

By the way I rode a friends 883 Sportster recently and quite enjoyed it.

I can forgive it all it's foibles like a vibey engine, uncomfortable riding position, general low tech etc. as thats all part of the HD experience but I could not forgive the terrible front brake. In no way are those fit for todays roads


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## MarkF (Jul 5, 2003)

Andy said:


> Regarding the BMW Cruiser.
> 
> At this time of year you can pick up a decent R-S plate, fully loaded and with ABS and stupidly low mileage for around four and a half grand. I reckon thats very much worth the money.
> 
> By the way I rode a friends 883 Sportster recently and quite enjoyed it.


Ok we've gone way off topic







but the price bothers me because I've just bought an "R" Nissam Primera, top of the range, like new, CD, air con, heated leather seats, etc etc, 70k on the clock and unmarked...........Â£1675 

I too had a ride on a friends Sportster in the summer, didn't like it at all, maybe I would if they were 50% of what they cost used. Anyway, first off I didn't strap up his oh so cool colour coded open face lid, this came off at about 40mph and was well scratched. There was no way he wouldn't notice so I had to tell him, he was distraught, as I was doing so I saw that my boots had melted against his exhaust leaving lovely black rubber streaks down his screamin eagles


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Mark I know bikes are too expensive but I'm taliking relatively.

I had an immaculate H reg MR2 with 75000 miles on the clock, Value ? Â£2500-3000.

That would just about buy yo an average V-MAX from a dealer.

If you start comapring used car V used bike prices you would never bother with a bike anyway.

You have to be relative.

I saw a BMW R1200C in MCN on an S plate, 1500 miles, (so only just run in) luggage, extra's and ABS for Â£4300 ono in MCN.

OK that buys you one hell of a used car but only just gets you a 600 Bandit.


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