# F300hz Movements And Issues



## James (Jul 17, 2006)

Hi,

I am new to watch collecting. These things have sparked my interest the various brands using these movements, I may start to collect these I am not sure. Few questions please.

Are there any inherent issues with these movements?

Of the various parts, coils etc, are there any parts that have a general lifespan?

What are the downfalls of these movements?

Thank you in advance for helping a n00b out


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

I'll have a go...and I'm sure Kieth, Mike / Zessa, Andy / Foztez will also have their pet hates...

And I assume we're talking generic ESA 9162 here rather than only the copper coloured Omega version...

I haven't listed things like Index Wheels because I don't think they are any more problematic that any other movement with an Index Wheel (Accutrons, Longines Ultra-Quartz, Omega Electroquartz)

In *bold* below.



James said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am new to watch collecting. These things have sparked my interest the various brands using these movements, I may start to collect these I am not sure. Few questions please.
> 
> ...


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## KEITHT (Dec 2, 2007)

As Paul states, the plastic date wheels on the ESA9162 movements are invariably damaged.

The ESA 9164's tend to fair slightly better, and in these models its more likely to be the day wheel.

This is due to 2 main reasons, one they are plastic and 2 due to owners changing the date whilst the auto mechanism is engaged.

Normally the tooth/teeth adjucent to the date change wheel, whilst either the 30th or 31st is showing in the window...although not just confined to these in extreme cases.

In truth if you only have one or two teeth gone its not a huge problem as most will still change over manually.

Just don't do it between 9pm and 3am IMO.

Clutches get dry then ultimately damaged, the symptom of this is the second hand creeping or spinning round whilst adjusting the hands...this in itself is not bad, but if left can damaged/destroy!!! the indexing, especially if you move the hands backwards.

I have found that a lot of watches that appear to have fautly coils, are in fact fine and just need the plates cleaning and the indexing adjusting, the *Hum*, can be very faint in movements with badly adjusted indexing.

Common causing failures of coils, and either can go, or both....is clumbsy battery replacement, ie nicking the windings....seen this often , or that the insulator that fits beneath the coil jointing plate is damaged.

The movements are in fact beautifully made, and are in the most part reliable and do not deserve to have the reputation for being troublesome....i think they just fell foul of the influx of cheaper to manufactuer quartz...and later a snobbery amongst collectors for having a battery.

Note, though that many parts are now obselete, and donor watches are the best source now, most of the makers will no longer touch them, and have no spares at all, although i have heard IWC still

.....most/all the spare stock ESA had was purchased by Technos in the early 90's...and of course Titus must have picked up Omega's sometime in the late 70's i would suspect..

Although that still doesn't explain why so many NOS??? Titus are available....be careful with these though...i have seen many with less than satisfactory movements.!!!

One other myth that seems to put people off, is the battery issue.

These watches will run fine on modern cells, they were designed too...1.35v - 1.55v, so a 344, or equiverlant is fine.

Any that won't run on these will have poorly adjusted indexing..

So to summerise....they are great watches, they are very accurate, and if looked after will last as long as any mech.

Buy wisely, and you won't be disapointed!!

Regards Keith


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## Zessa (Apr 9, 2008)

What Keith said!!

Couldn't have said it better.

I do agree with both Keith and Paul in reference to the index wheel. I have found these to be a lot less of a problem than rumour has it.

The calendar date wheels are the main problem and as already stated normally broken by people who change the date between 10pm and 2am thus causing a fowling of auto change.

As Keith once said "they are the Audi Quattro of movements" and I am constantly surprised at how some run well even after nearly forty years of never having anything more than a battery change. Even a good mechanical wouldn't work as well after all that time and no service.

More than any other movement, the hum is what sets them apart...almost gives them a "life". Explaining that mosquitos are not invading followed by handing over the watch so that someone can get a closer listen is always fun :lol:

Regards, Mike


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

You'll not get an objective view from Mike or Keith but that's OK.... :lol:



Zessa said:


> The calendar date wheels are the main problem and as already stated normally broken by people who change the date between 10pm and 2am thus causing a fowling of auto change.


I find it strange that they could not have designed around this issue. :huh:


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Im waiting for someone to go to China to get some date wheels remade....


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## Zessa (Apr 9, 2008)

Silver Hawk said:


> You'll not get an objective view from Mike or Keith but that's OK.... :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :lol: so true Paul!!!

I get the sense that the design was all about the motor unit and that the mechanical part of the design was left as secondary importance. Of course I could be talking complete rubbish :lol: I could be wrong but I'm almost certain the the modern ESA 2824 movement found in so many watches these days has a similar problem? I suppose it's all about the that snappy date change and the mechanics required to get it to "flick" over. As a comparison my Marine Chronometer takes an hour to change date....nice and slow....never hear of those having a similar problem


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

jasonm said:


> Im waiting for someone to go to China to get some date wheels remade....


I keep meaning to go through my other movements and see if there is a close enough match....maybe with a few minor modifications. The ESA Dynotron range used metal date wheels....as did many other movements. Surely there must be one out there that might do...


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## Zessa (Apr 9, 2008)

jasonm said:


> Im waiting for someone to go to China to get some date wheels remade....


This is something that Keith and I have spoken about. Trouble is preliminary investigations indicated that the tooling up was really expensive (north of Â£10K  ) I cannot see the demand being high enough to justify the outlay.


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## KEITHT (Dec 2, 2007)

jasonm said:


> Im waiting for someone to go to China to get some date wheels remade....


Looked into that, problem is the volume needed to make it viable......they won't make a few hundred, and of course there's the expense.

Have also tried badgering ETA....no joy there either....


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Silver Hawk said:


> I keep meaning to go through my other movements and see if there is a close enough match....maybe with a few minor modifications. The ESA Dynotron range used metal date wheels....as did many other movements. Surely there must be one out there that might do...


What a load of rubbish....it was Bulova who used metal date wheels on the Accutron.


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## KEITHT (Dec 2, 2007)

Silver Hawk said:


> Silver Hawk said:
> 
> 
> > I keep meaning to go through my other movements and see if there is a close enough match....maybe with a few minor modifications. The ESA Dynotron range used metal date wheels....as did many other movements. Surely there must be one out there that might do...
> ...


 :lol: Excellent, having opposing views with yourself...

May just sit back and let you discuss this with yourself....


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

KEITHT said:


> May just sit back and let you discuss this with yourself....


Please feel free to join in. :tongue2:


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Come on Paul and Hawkey , no need to be abusive , shake hands and move on


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

jasonm said:


> Come on Paul and Hawkey , no need to be abusive , shake hands and move on


 :schmoll:


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## Zessa (Apr 9, 2008)

jasonm said:


> Come on Paul and Hawkey , no need to be abusive , shake hands and move on


Question is....who's going to win the arguement? :lol:


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## ESL (Jan 27, 2004)

Getting back on topic for a minute Paul and Hawkey, (how many times have I said that before  )

What sort of accuracy can be expected these days from these movements, my understanding is they are pretty good - all things considered. If you get one that is inaccurate, is it easy for ESA experienced chaps (such as our resident experts) to regulate them?

Finally, is the Omega version of the ESA movement that different from a "standard" version?

:huh:


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## Zessa (Apr 9, 2008)

I am regularly able to adjust these movements to within 2 or even 1 second a day without much problem (I've even managed to get some down to seconds per week).

Unadjusted they will still run within chronometer specs (+- 7/8 secs a day). Anything more than that and it probably requires a service (which like mechanicals is good for 4 to 5 years)

The only difference bewteen the omega and other ESA 9162 movements is the metal used in construction. The copper (is it copper or copper nickel?) based movement plates should have better anti magnetic properties so the theory goes.

All that said....for some reason the Omega movements seem to slot together better. Could be just in my head but it's the difference between getting in to a Ford and a Merc with identical specs...the Merc just "feels" better. (Yup....now I really have lost my mind :lol: )


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Zessa said:


> The only difference bewteen the omega and other ESA 9162 movements is the metal used in construction. The copper (is it copper or copper nickel?) based movement plates should have better anti magnetic properties so the theory goes.


Is this right :huh: ? I thought it was just a plating... copper plated (Omega) versus nickel plated (the rest)....sorry, not willing to chop one of plates in half to check. :tongue2:


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## frogspawn (Jun 20, 2008)

I've got 3 f300s - one runs at about a couple of seconds a WEEK (not been adjusted in the last 3 months!! The others all run about 5 seconds a day which to be honest is not worth worrying about.


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## KEITHT (Dec 2, 2007)

Silver Hawk said:


> Zessa said:
> 
> 
> > The only difference bewteen the omega and other ESA 9162 movements is the metal used in construction. The copper (is it copper or copper nickel?) based movement plates should have better anti magnetic properties so the theory goes.
> ...


There are some difference, with coil construction, weight colour, jewel type, but this is down to, IMO, manufacturing changes over the years and not individual makers specs...

There was some talk about IWC handbuilding and tweaking their's..i don;t believe this is true, and you could stick a Titus movement in an IWC and no-one would notice..because its the same..

The only difference i can see between Omega and the others is the finish, and that Omega chose to market the f300's as Chronometer rated, and with the exception of Certina who also did produce a few models with Chronometer on the dial and a serial No on the movement plaque, nobody else did.

TMK though, the movements would have been Chronometer spec out of the box


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## KEITHT (Dec 2, 2007)

Ps.

Plated...not solid..


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## Zessa (Apr 9, 2008)

KEITHT said:


> Ps.
> 
> Plated...not solid..


Cool....

Was never sure about that...never had the spare to chop up and check...


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## feenix (May 27, 2008)

While you're all in such charitable moods, any tips for owners who may fancy having a go at these themselves?


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## KEITHT (Dec 2, 2007)

feenix said:


> While you're all in such charitable moods, any tips for owners who may fancy having a go at these themselves?


Yep...don't unless you are prepared to wreck loads practising...!!!!!...


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## James (Jul 17, 2006)

Thanks guys! Interesting conversation. It was these titus ones that sparked an interest, more the retro styling. Always thought the coils would have been the biggest thing, or electrical never thought about date wheel and mechanics. I guess being "electric" so to speak that may lead to a lack of service till it breaks attitude vs. always knowing a full mech piece you are expected to get it serviced.

Do you think regular servicing then would decrease the chances of the mechanical issues?


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## Zessa (Apr 9, 2008)

KEITHT said:


> feenix said:
> 
> 
> > While you're all in such charitable moods, any tips for owners who may fancy having a go at these themselves?
> ...


Have to agree with Keith on this one. Get it right though and it's very satisfying....



James said:


> Thanks guys! Interesting conversation. It was these titus ones that sparked an interest, more the retro styling. Always thought the coils would have been the biggest thing, or electrical never thought about date wheel and mechanics. I guess being "electric" so to speak that may lead to a lack of service till it breaks attitude vs. always knowing a full mech piece you are expected to get it serviced.
> 
> Do you think regular servicing then would decrease the chances of the mechanical issues?


Almost certain of it....a well serviced ESA 9162/4 runs beautifully and if properly adjusted shouldn't put too much wear on the parts such as the index wheel. I've seen 35 year old index wheels that look as good as a NOS one with little or no wear to the indexing teeth. Keith's right, most of the coil problems seems to be from careless servicing.

Agree that most would see this as a service when it breaks watch. The surprising thing is that the manual for the f300's says nothing about servicing aside from having the battery changed every 12 months.....strange that!

Cheers,

Mike

P.S. one word of warning James...f300's are a slipery slope. :lol:


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## James (Jul 17, 2006)

slippery slope it seems but yet some are just so damn cool, retro like


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