# Omega Quandry



## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Jon, you may remember; Keith, it was before your time....but I'm sure you two will have the answer. :notworthy:

I bought the Megasonic below 3-4 years ago...and I think we quickly established that the hands, err, were not quite correct. :cry2: I think someone at the time thought they were from a Citizen.

I'm not sure what happened to the movement; I have it somewhere, probably in another squared case Megasonic, but I'm now left with the case, Megasonic dial, crystal and bracelet all in good condition.

Can you tell which movement a particular Omega case originally had? The case back numbers on this are 198.0008 and it does say "Movement licensed Bulova and Pat. ESA" so it obviously had a hummer of some kind but would that indicate an F300 or could it still be a Megasonic? With ESA mentioned, it sounds more like an F300 but what do you think?

What should I do with it? Suggestions please...I like this case shape and its the only one I have like this; I'd like to wear it...but I do want the right movement, dial and hand combination. If you think it should stay as a Megasonic, that is fine as well; I have the dial (as in photo) and the movement....just need some ideas on what hands it would have had.

Only other numbers I can find are on the Omega bracelet: 1198/195.

Thanks

Paul


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

Hi

This is from the Omega Vintage site. As usual, the search doesn't find what you want, but going through the 'Tuning Fork:Seamaster' search, I found this...



> Seamaster
> 
> Gents' metal bracelet
> 
> ...


The case back, at least, was an F300, but that doesn't mean the back is right, or that the Omega site is right. I'm not sure they know much of what they made in the '70s. I always have trouble finding mine.


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## PhilM (Nov 5, 2004)

Paul you know what to do 

Edit: Nice case and dial and good size


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

I think the case back is off an f300 cone, but the bracelet is different to mine (my f300 cone is a 1187/188, like the quote below).

Also, your case has a 'step' in it, my f300 doesn't, but my case has been polished, so they might have polished the step out.

Could be a 'bitsa', could be unusual.


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## KEITHT (Dec 2, 2007)

Its definately a f300 case Paul. As i think Andy mentioned, its the so called Seamaster Cone....nice Franken though.

Pretty certain its for a Cal 1250...the Cal 1260 cases are deeper and have a shallower crystal ring..

Regards Keith


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Who. Me? said:


> I think the case back is off an f300 cone, but the bracelet is different to mine (my f300 cone is a 1187/188, like the quote below).
> 
> Also, your case has a 'step' in it, my f300 doesn't, but my case has been polished, so they might have polished the step out.
> 
> Could be a 'bitsa', could be unusual.


Thanks!

The "step" on mine...are you referring to the polished area at the base of the bezel?

I think you're right about the case back being from an F300...why would it mention ESA if it came from a Megasonic?


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

KEITHT said:


> Its definately a f300 case Paul. As i think Andy mentioned, its the so called Seamaster Cone....nice Franken though.
> 
> Pretty certain its for a Cal 1250...the Cal 1260 cases are deeper and have a shallower crystal ring..
> 
> Regards Keith


Damn...I wanted it to be a Megasonic. 

Seems I have a lot more work to do....need to find the correct dial and hands.  Anyone got some?


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

Silver Hawk said:


> The "step" on mine...are you referring to the polished area at the base of the bezel?


Yes, mine slopes right down to the bracelet ring, but it's been heavily polished. (I looked mine up a few weeks ago, which is why I knew where to look).

Still, if you really don't like it, as it is and just want shot of the case...  :lol:


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Who. Me? said:


> Silver Hawk said:
> 
> 
> > The "step" on mine...are you referring to the polished area at the base of the bezel?
> ...


'Fraid not...it's the case I like....and that dial...but they don't live together.  And I'm not a fan of frankens.

So can someone show me:

1) What's the correct dial and hands for this case?

2) What's the correct case for that dial?


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## KEITHT (Dec 2, 2007)

Hi Paul.

The case is correct with the step, most of these have been heavily polished as they are prone to taking knocks.

The hands will be the standard style black/white stick hands that most SM f300 have....with most likely a red seconds....there were several dial styles, the most common being the sliver, with also blue and matt black varients...i would avoid these as most have bubbled due to age....

Impressed that a Megasonic fits though, it proves what i was hoping ...as i am planning to build a D-shaped Megasonic Franken...

I am off to work shortly, but should be able to send off some pics to you tomorrow....although i am certain several members have examples of this model...

keith


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## KEITHT (Dec 2, 2007)

PS. The dial could have come from numerous Megasonic models, its a pretty common style...also the crystal is too tall, so i suspect its from the Day/date case, or possible even the SM120 f300....which are about 3mm thick!

Regards Keith


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

KEITHT said:


> Impressed that a Megasonic fits though, it proves what i was hoping ...as i am planning to build a D-shaped Megasonic Franken...


Thanks Keith.....I'd like to stick with a silver coloured dial i.e. keep it as close to this Megasonic dial as possible, so any pictures of same case with a silver F300 dial would be much appreciated.

Next question though....what sort of case would my Megasonic dial have come from?

BTW: as you can see, I have the perfect set of hands for a franken.


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

KEITHT said:


> PS. The dial could have come from numerous Megasonic models, its a pretty common style...also the crystal is too tall, so i suspect its from the Day/date case, or possible even the SM120 f300....which are about 3mm thick!
> 
> Regards Keith


Crystal should be flush with case, right?


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## KEITHT (Dec 2, 2007)

Silver Hawk said:


> KEITHT said:
> 
> 
> > PS. The dial could have come from numerous Megasonic models, its a pretty common style...also the crystal is too tall, so i suspect its from the Day/date case, or possible even the SM120 f300....which are about 3mm thick!
> ...


Yep, and the seal!!! :blink:

Will try and find some pics.....i have only found a black dialed cal1260 in my photo's......there are lots to chose from, and a quick search of the net shpould produce results.....the crystals are still available new approx Â£12-16, but not sure about the seals..

I am almost certain that as with the f300 round dials that all the round Megasonic dials are also the same diameter, so any MS Geneve case would work...just make sure it is for the same Cal .

Keith


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## Agent orange (Feb 11, 2006)

Hi Paul, Just did a quick google search and found the following:

http://www.old-omegas.com/pics/ads/st72-2.jpg

The watch being picked up

http://www.vintagewatch.ca/subPages/page1270.htm

This one's been polished to death though

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...s%3Den%26sa%3DN

As has this

Hope this helps a little and I'll have a rummage through my Omega books and see if I can find anything.

Cheers,

Gary

P.S. Mods, some of the above links are to sales sites please delete if deemed inappropriate


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Im still reeling from the 3-4 years ago bit..


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

I just took a more in-depth look at the case.

It appears that the crystal seal is sitting on a bevelled ring which is separate from the case. This ring appears to have a slight brass colour....it could be s/steel, not sure. Is this ring correct? It looks quite thick and I'm wondering if this is what is stopping the crystal going any deeper into the case.

I've also notice that the inner threaded ring that holds the bevelled case / crystal assembly to the main case body is split across one side. :cry2: Is that common with this case design? I'd like to repair that...silver solder maybe?


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## Agent orange (Feb 11, 2006)

None of these are exactly the same serial number as yours Paul but they're not that far off, so I can't see yours being radically different.










Hope you can read this OK from my scan, if not just yell and I'll email it over.

Cheers,

Gary


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Agent orange said:


> Hi Paul, Just did a quick google search and found the following:
> 
> http://www.old-omegas.com/pics/ads/st72-2.jpg
> 
> ...


Thanks Gary. I have to say that the polished one is the worst piece of watch butchery I've seen for a long time.









Now I'm even more confused...that first one, with the watch being picked up, that's what I want to go for...it has date only. The polished one has day and date...so what movement is that? :huh:



jasonm said:


> Im still reeling from the 3-4 years ago bit..


Sorry Jason...its 2 years...I just check my old emails.

Keith, thanks for email!

All...I've just had a sinking feeling...  ... didn't I buy a whole load of old F300 parts incl. dials from Roy about 4 years (Jason, it really was about 4yrs ago I think)??? I think I better go see and then come back for more advice.


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

Silver Hawk said:


> I just took a more in-depth look at the case.
> 
> It appears that the crystal seal is sitting on a bevelled ring which is separate from the case. This ring appears to have a slight brass colour....it could be s/steel, not sure. Is this ring correct? It looks quite thick and I'm wondering if this is what is stopping the crystal going any deeper into the case.
> 
> I've also notice that the inner threaded ring that holds the bevelled case / crystal assembly to the main case body is split across one side. :cry2: Is that common with this case design? I'd like to repair that...silver solder maybe?


Picture of mine.










The ring is thick and does leave the crystal proud, so they often get chipped. I replaced mine, but pressed it too far home, I think, so it sits nearer flush now.

As far as the back goes, I can't see a split in my bracelet ring, or the retaining ring though. Can you get a pic of yours?


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

Agent orange said:


> None of these are exactly the same serial number as yours Paul but they're not that far off, so I can't see yours being radically different.
> 
> Hope you can read this OK from my scan, if not just yell and I'll email it over.
> 
> ...


Thanks Gary! Mine looks like the one that says "SEX 8" :lol: in the day date windows....bottom row second from left.


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

Mine doesn't say SEX, but have a sexier shot of it (groan) instead...


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## Agent orange (Feb 11, 2006)

Silver Hawk said:


> Now I'm even more confused...that first one, with the watch being picked up, that's what I want to go for...it has date only. The polished one has day and date...so what movement is that? :huh:


The date only models are a cal.1250 (esa 9162) and the day/date one's are cal.1260 (esa 9164).

Cheers,

Gary


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

After a rummage around, I found the F300 parts that came from Roy...but sadly, I don't think any are going to help me fill this case with the dial, hands and movement that I want. Some quick and dirty shots:

First, my case now dis-assembled with a blue oiler stuck between the broken part of the retaining threaded ring :cry2: . Also a couple of F300 Omega dials but not the ones I want. Those gold dials are all for "Allegro" watches --- most of the F300 parts came from these Allegro watches...I have the cases also.

The dial & movement in the pot is the Megasonic one from this case.










Bunch of ESA 9162/4 parts...they're not going to help.










More pots of grobbly bits....










The only hands I have....can someone confirm if the non gold ones are Omega? Again, I think the gold ones came from the Allegros.










That it...so what shall I do? Just leave it as a Megasonic Franken?


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## Who. Me? (Jan 12, 2007)

Silver Hawk said:


> The only hands I have....can someone confirm if the non gold ones are Omega? Again, I think the gold ones came from the Allegros.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those black hands in the middle look like the right ones, if they fit. You need a red second hand as well though.

I'm certain I've seen the dials come up on ebay from time to time. Can't remember the name of the Australian seller watchadoo? watchco? Doubt they're cheap though. And even 'parts' cones are going for >Â£100, complete (I know, I've been looking to see if I can get a better case). I may just treat mine to STS, but I fear the polishing is too severe.

I kind of like the idea of a megasonic cone, but not with Geneve lettering on the dial. That just doesn't look right to me.


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## KEITHT (Dec 2, 2007)

Top left silver hands are from the silver Omega dial, the black tipped ones middle left are from the striped dial, the 2 short tailed seconds are also Omega, Cal 1250 hour and minute hands are not interchangable with cal 1260 in most cases (???).

The other hands are typical of Zenith ( ie Allegro ) Eterna, Longines etc.....

f300 hands may fit on the megasonics...but i can't remember, will try and check....

Its an interesting hybrid, and certainly unique.....the case and bracelet look very good, maybe get a donor for the dial etc...alternatively, if you have enough parts for a working Cal 1250, put the silver f300 dial in with the matching hands....

Keith


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Wow, time flies... I remember that MS with Citizen hands... scary... LOL

Looks like youre getting sorted tho Paul. Id use the hands and silver 1260 dial you have there Paul, and you must surely be able to make a 1260 from all those parts...


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## KEITHT (Dec 2, 2007)

JonW said:


> Looks like youre getting sorted tho Paul. Id use the hands and silver 1260 dial you have there Paul, and you must surely be able to make a 1260 from all those parts...


Nice idea, but unfortunately the cal 1260 won't fit in your case, you would need a 198.0018....sorry!!!


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

KEITHT said:


> Its an interesting hybrid, and certainly unique.....the case and bracelet look very good, maybe get a donor for the dial etc...alternatively, if you have enough parts for a working Cal 1250, put the silver f300 dial in with the matching hands....
> 
> Keith


Thanks Keith...I agree about the condition of the case...especially having seen some of the over polished ones...this one is in very nice condition and is the main reason I want to put something in it.

Not sure about the bracelet...I mean it looks and fits correctly...seems to have all the correct markings...but feels strangely light and flimsy. Copy maybe?

I don't have enough parts for a working Cal 1250...I'm either going to have to fork out some money or break up a Titus / Tissot h34r: or get one of those NOS ESA 9162 movements that appear on ebay from time-to-time.

And my silver F300 dial...it might be good enough...I know it looks OK in the photo, but I seem to remember close up it didn't look too good.

Decision, decisions.


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## KEITHT (Dec 2, 2007)

Silver Hawk said:


> KEITHT said:
> 
> 
> > Its an interesting hybrid, and certainly unique.....the case and bracelet look very good, maybe get a donor for the dial etc...alternatively, if you have enough parts for a working Cal 1250, put the silver f300 dial in with the matching hands....
> ...


Bracelet is most likely genuine, they weren't the best on these models.....let me know what parts you might need...i am sure i can help!... in the meantime i will keep an eye out for a suitable SM donor.....cheap of course.

Keith


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## dickstar1977 (Feb 4, 2008)

Hi all

Just got my 2 o'clock crown back from an STS love fest (yesterday)! Will post some pictures later! looks the nuts! It is on a black dial with the optional JB champion bracelet and perforated period leather racing strap! Such a nice little watch!

Sadly like my other MINT F300 square case and Megasonic it is going in the sales section this weekend!

I have a few grails in the pipeline and something needs to go (otherwise my soon to be wife will!!!! lol)

Tom


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

KEITHT said:


> Bracelet is most likely genuine, they weren't the best on these models.....let me know what parts you might need...i am sure i can help!... in the meantime i will keep an eye out for a suitable SM donor.....cheap of course.
> 
> Keith


email sent!


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

OK guys...looking for more advice / info / explanations  :sadwalk:

After my Foggy trade, I thought I had the perfect answer....put the newly acquired F300 Seamaster movement in my near mint case. So went to the trouble of restoring and servicing it only to find it wont fit....not even close. The stem holes don't line up and nor do the movement clamps and case groove. 

Looked at the inside of the case in a little more detail and it has a couple of cutaways that only match up with the Megasonic movement clamps. And the Megasonic is thinner than the ESA 9162 so the stems holes line up ok with a Megasonic. So this case is definitely for a Megasonic and wont take an F300...

So does that mean I just have a dial / caseback mis-match? The dial says Geneve and the caseback says Seamaster...so maybe when those Citizen hands were fitted, they changed the dial at the same time.....what do you think?

Anyone got a good Seamaster Megasonic dial?


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## jasonm (Nov 22, 2003)

Your not giving up on this one then 

Good for you...

I think Keith is the only person on here that may have stuff like that in a spares drawer :huh:


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## KEITHT (Dec 2, 2007)

Silver Hawk said:


> OK guys...looking for more advice / info / explanations  :sadwalk:
> 
> After my Foggy trade, I thought I had the perfect answer....put the newly acquired F300 Seamaster movement in my near mint case. So went to the trouble of restoring and servicing it only to find it wont fit....not even close. The stem holes don't line up and nor do the movement clamps and case groove.
> 
> ...


Its definately a f300 case Paul as the case back suggests, but possibly for a 1260 and not a 1250,

How deep is the case?...although the Megasonics share many of the same case ref's, the ESA and Bulova references are for the f300's. and it certainly isn't a Geneve model IMO.

It may also have had a different crystal ring fitted , as the Cal1260 type ones are deeper than the Cal1250 ones. Also the angled case clamps can fit eitherway up dependant on the model/movement types

Hope this helps.

Keith


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## JonW (Mar 23, 2005)

Paul, Did we ever try seeking out confirmation from the case back number?

I do know that the back are pretty interchangable as they use the same thread but if the case is this perfect a fit for the MS then maybe it truely was a MS... interesting... The movt number doesnt start 00000 does it?


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## foztex (Nov 6, 2005)

I suspect the caseback has been changed. As Jon says, they are interchangeable. I've a 'normal' cased Geneve with a Seamaster back on it.

Andy


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

First of all, thanks for the feedback guys. It's what makes this forum great. :rltb:

Maybe this is a crystal related problem :blink: , because once I've removed that, plus the seal and the loose crystal ring, my F300 Seamaster movement will fit both cases in the normal way using the normal movement clamps  . But now I have new problems  .

Keith, the cases are different heights h34r: ...I hadn't appreciated that at the time. The F300 one is taller at 10.17 mm while this 'Megasonic' case is 9.18 mm ... and, in watch terms, 1 mm does make a difference and size does matter. So since an F300 does fit in both, does that mean the shorter one takes the 1250 and the taller one takes the 1260? The current crystal is a 3 mm one!

So my new problem is to work out what I need on the crystal side. When I assemble and clamp the F300 in the two cases, there are big differences on the dial side. In my first photo; the top half is the F300 in the taller F300 case...there is a clear ledge and the top surface of the ledge is at least 1 mm above the surface of the dial. In the second half, same movement in the shorter 'Megasonic' case...the top surface of the ledge is now at the same level as the dial surface.

The second photo shows the 3mm crystal, a seal and the two crystal rings I have from these two cases --- one is 2.07 mm deep and the other is 1.77 mm deep. I'm pretty sure I could assemble the taller F300 case with no problem, but the shorter case I'm not so sure. Is it just a matter of fitting the standard, and therefore thinner, crystal?

Lastly, a photo showing the slots for the Megasonic movement clamps in the shorter 'Megasonic' case....put there my Omega or a previous watch maker?

Don't give up me guys...all info and suggestions very gratefully received and acknowledged. 

As Mr. Plant once said, "_Been dazed and confused for so long its not true,..._"


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## KEITHT (Dec 2, 2007)

Ok...

Let me try and get this right this time, i mistook the case on my last post as for a Cal 1260, it is not its a Cal 1250, as you say the deeper of the 2 is for the Cal1260.

The crystal is too deep, it should sit flush or almost flush.and i suspect the ring is the wrong one, and has been fitted to make the shallower Megasonic fit.

The clamp grooves IMO are additions to fit longer clamps..there are about 8 different clamp sizes that i have seen in different electronic models.

I think you need to make sure you have the correct ring in first, the crystal being proud will then only be asethtic.

The movement Cal 1250 movement should then line up with the stem tube, the clamps from memory are curved at the tips and about 3mm long, tips can face either way...

Any help?


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## Silver Hawk (Dec 2, 2003)

KEITHT said:


> Any help?


Yes, thanks. Beginning to wish I'd just replaced the hands on this one....


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