# Help Needed- Russian Divers Watches



## just watching

Hello

Does anyone know anything about the Russian divers watches made by Zlatoust. they are massive in size with a mesh guard and were apprarently used by the Russian miltary/SAS.

They look great even though they are a massive 6cms wdie and 2cm high. What I really want to know is whether they are any good in terms of build quality and finish . If anyone can enlighten me, I would be very grateful.


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## jasonm

Im afraid I dont know too much about them









I wouldnt wear one down the pub!!


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## Stan

I think Roy had some a while back? A bit on the large side for me.


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## mach 0.0013137

jasonm said:


> Im afraid I dont know too much about them
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Oh I don`t know, if someone attacked you, you could use it to pacify them
















Welcome to the forum JW, there are forum members who own this giant amongst watches but most I think use them as clocks as they are somewhat impractical to wear.

The size is one thing but the weight is approx 275gms


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## just watching

mach 0.0013137 said:


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> Welcome to the forum JW, there are forum members who own this giant amongst watches but most I think use them as clocks as they are somewhat impractical to wear.
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Click to expand...

Thanks everyone. I am looking for a big watch like a Panerai but without having to take out a second mortgage! The Massive divers watch looked quite cool and quirky-though you all seem to be in agreement that it might be just too big. Any suggestions for alternatives would be welcome.


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## Nalu

Welcome, J-W.

What's your price range? Any other clues besides big, quirky, Panerai-ish and diver?

Some suggestions: Anonimo, RXW Marina Militaire (like Panerai), Citizen Eco-zilla, Seiko BM/OM (big dive watches with unique look).

I've got one of those big Russian divers. They are impossible to wear, but look best in the home office since it's the size of a small desk clock.


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## just watching

Nalu said:


> Welcome, J-W.
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> What's your price range? Any other clues besides big, quirky, Panerai-ish and diver?
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> Some suggestions: Anonimo, RXW Marina Militaire (like Panerai), Citizen Eco-zilla, Seiko BM/OM (big dive watches with unique look).
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> I've got one of those big Russian divers. They are impossible to wear, but look best in the home office since it's the size of a small desk clock.
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Thanks- are they really that big? I really like the RXW's but they seem to go for mega money when I can acutally find one. What I wouldn't mind knowing is what these masssive divers are actaally like in terms of quality and build. Are they more Lada or VW? From what everyone seems to tell me, their only redeeming strength is in a self defence situation !!!


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## mach 0.0013137

just watching said:


> Thanks- are they really that big?Â I really like the RXW's but they seem to go for mega money when I can acutally find one.Â What I wouldn't mind knowing is what these masssive divers are actaally like in terms of quality and build.Â Are they more Lada or VW? From what everyone seems to tell me, their only redeeming strength is in a self defence situation !!!
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 I don`t own one but I suspect they are more Lada then VW (mind you I`m weird I liked Lada`s







). To give you some idea of just how big they are here is a wrist shot of my Zeno Euro Canteen Diver which is _ only!_







48mm to base of the crown, 67mm to tip and 18mm deep, this _is_ wearable.......










Also a watch that Colin mentioned, the Citizen Eco-drive 300m AKA `Eco-Zilla`, which is the same size and depth( I mean case size of course







).....










I`ve seen lots of photo`s of the Zlatoust but never a wrist shot, any owners out there willing to oblige?


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## DavidH

Stick to Toyota and you'll not go far wrong


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## pauluspaolo

I've worn the Citizen 300m Eco drive diver as pictured above and despite the size and weight (it's made from stainless steel) it is very comfortable.

However, and despite the fact that I love Japanese watches, if you want a big watch that won't break the bank then have a look at Glycine. I have a Glycine Lagunare 300m diver and I forget I'm wearing it despite the fact that it's 50mm in diameter (including the crown - 46mm without), it's only 11mm thick so it's as slim as a slim thing compared to the other watches in this thread. The quality is superb too - you can't go wrong


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## gregor

I like that Glycine Paul!









Gregor


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## B.Caine

That Glycine looks great, I like big watches and have a Zilla, do the Glycines cost a lot?? many thanks, Brian.


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## pauluspaolo

Glycines aren't particularly cheap but are good value - you get a lot of watch for your money. I think this particular model (the Lagunare 300m) is Â£500ish new on a leather strap, it's more with the bracelet (which is excellent quality). The Lagunare chronographs are well over Â£1000 which makes the diver even better value for money.

Hope this helps


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## abraxas

There's a review of it here ... with wristshot. http://tinyurl.com/6olnl

john


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## mach 0.0013137

The wrist shot ......









What if you tripped and fell putting your hands out to break your fall












































Mind you seems perfectly suitable to wear on the right wrist, once again proving right is _ RIGHT!!!_























NB this statement in NO!! way reflects the writer`s political _leanings_


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## Xantiagib

That review is a good laugh - well written and reflects the attitude you must have

when wearing one...

beware of imitations - many many people have copied the original Zlatoust Diver and are selling them for ridiculous prices to tourists. Most of these are chinese or lesser russian copies. The original one is the only one to get...

...that is if you have a humungous diving suit and wear it on the outside

the original will come with spare gasket and screwdriver.


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## dapper

Just received one of those big divers from Moscow. I don't know if it's original - it has stamped papers, spare gasket & screwdriver(s). 'Made in 1971' according to the seller - a good man who I've bought several watches from.

It's a fantastic looking thing - I new the dimensions when I ordered it, but in real life it is so huge it makes you smile.

Rare for me to have a watch & strap that fits my wrist with a hole to spare.


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## Xantiagib

Congrats! lets see some photos then....

I'd have to wear it around my ankle












dapper said:


> Just received one of those big divers from Moscow. I don't know if it's original - it has stamped papers, spare gasket & screwdriver(s). 'Made in 1971' according to the seller - a good man who I've bought several watches from.
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> It's a fantastic looking thing - I new the dimensions when I ordered it, but in real life it is so huge it makes you smile.
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## dapper

Xantiagib said:


> Congrats! lets see some photos then....
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> One day I'll follow PG's tutorial & learn how to post pictures


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## Smokin' Gun

just watching said:


> Hello
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> Does anyone know anything about the Russian divers watches made by Zlatoust. they are massive in size with a mesh guard and were apprarently used by the Russian miltary/SAS.
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> They look great even though they are a massive 6cms wdie and 2cm high. What I really want to know is whether they are any good in terms of build quality and finish . If anyone can enlighten me, I would be very grateful.


They are great watches. However, they are massive. Here are my two original ones. The movement is actually a copy of the old 1930â€™s Patek Philippe Movement, manual wind with 15 jewels.

They are called Zlatoust Model 191. Maximum Depth Rating 1000M. The real ones did not come with mesh guards, nor did they come with anything on the back, besides the serial numbers. The type one version came with a non-removable leather strap. The second model came with two straps a rubber one short, and a one rubber one long.

Movement and finish are excellent. Each one was hand milled and machined and then hand assembled. As you can see by my photos after 40 and 30 years, they are still in great strap. These two have not been touched since the came from the factory. The one with the leather strap is circa 1965. The last ones were made in 1976.

The number system on then is erratic, only known to Zlatoust. They were sensitive items that had to be returned after the dive.

The watch dial is plain they have nothing but some sort of Soviet version of Super Luminova, as mine still glow brightly.

The watch dimensions are 60MM wide without Canteen Crown, 80MM including Canteen Crown. Height of the watch is 20MM tall and 78MM lug to lug. Inside measurements of lug-to-lug is 25MM, so you would need to find a 25MM strap.

Total weight of the original watch is a whopping 295 grams!

Here is a photo of the watch on my wrist.

It is extremely rare to find the originals. Especially to find the original with the box, and papers as the box stayed inside a different box. Area and the paperwork was attached in a filing system and was only used for accountability purposes. The watches themselves where hung to dry.

The new ones, with the mesh guards, and the artwork on the back are current reproductions, and nowhere near the quality of the originals.

I hope this helps,

John[


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## Chascomm

I'd only dispute the following 2 details (but willing to concede if presented with fresh evidence)



Smokin said:


> The movement is actually a copy of the old 1930â€™s Patek Philippe Movement, manual wind with 15 jewels.


 The movement is in fact the Soviet Type-1, which is a design that they acquired with the purchase of the entire Hampden Watch Company (a US company) in 1930.



> Maximum Depth Rating 1000M.


As far as I know, these watches were designed for rough and prolonged use in relatively shallow waters i.e. where a hard-hat diver was attached via air-hose to a boat.


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## Smokin' Gun

Chascomm said:


> I'd only dispute the following 2 details (but willing to concede if presented with fresh evidence)
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> The movement is actually a copy of the old 1930â€™s Patek Philippe Movement, manual wind with 15 jewels.
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> The movement is in fact the Soviet Type-1, which is a design that they acquired with the purchase of the entire Hampden Watch Company (a US company) in 1930.
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> As far as I know, these watches were designed for rough and prolonged use in relatively shallow waters i.e. where a hard-hat diver was attached via air-hose to a boat.
Click to expand...

What you say is true, the Soviets Purchased the defunct Ansonia Clock Company of Brooklyn, New York in 1929; and the Dueber-Hampden Watch Company of Canton, Ohio in 1930. However, these designs were outdated by WWII.

However, advancements of Soviet movements, designs, and watch-making technology derived from designs that were "appropriated" from the Swiss and Germans after WWII.

In the early 1950â€™s the soviets were licensed to manufacture Swiss movementsâ€¦â€He mentioned in this connection the negotiations he had conducted with Hungary in 1956, a frustrating business. He noted also the present situation in which the Swiss have licensed the Russians to manufacture Swiss watch movements.â€

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/oralhist/bauerg.htm

Since the Soviets were already licensed to make the movements, they also copied the movements, those especially of the mechanical Patek movements.

As far as the original Zlatoust Model 191 are concerned they are rated as deep dive watches, do to the fact of their massive cases, massive movements, canteen crown, and thick glass with double gaskets. The Z-191 is still considered the largest mechanical dive watch to date, since no watch has been tested for more than a 1000M. The 191 has been tested and has gone to the max of 1000 meters in vacuum pressure tests. Therefore, the rating has been applied to the original 191â€™s. Do not try to even dive with the copies/replicas, as they are not guaranteed to be waterproof.

As far as it going down 3000 feet plus and surviving, I do not know, as the others that are rated 1000 Meters that are an 1/8th of the size of the 191. I know they cannot make it, they made be rated, but being rated and actually doing it are two different things.

I hope this clarifies thisâ€¦I am no expert. I Just like the watch as I actually dive with mine!

John


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## Smokin' Gun

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/smkngun27/album?.dir=/96d7re2

Pix!!! Front, back, boxed, real papers, wrist shot. Lum shot...


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## jasonm

Great pix smokey!









Welcome from me to the forum, I haddnt noticed before that these had numbers 12, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 instead of the usual 12, 3,6,9 ....Looks good


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## Smokin' Gun

jasonm said:


> Great pix smokey!
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Hey Jason,

Thanks!

John


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## Ironpants

I don't think that watch was designed for a human hand 









Welcome to the forum









Toby


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## pg tips

Bugger me!









Why not strap a clock to your wrist? It's huge!


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## ebrandwein

Hi folks, this is my first post here. I heard about this discussion over at the WUS Russian Watch forum. If anyone is interested, I did a review of the Zlatoust, including a wrist shot. Link below.

http://edscorner1.blogspot.com/2006_05_01_...r1_archive.html

It is a very interesting watch, just not a very wearable one. It would probably be ok over a wetsuit though.


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## mach 0.0013137

I have wondered why they are not worn on the right wrist









I do put this on sometimes including going to work but wouldn`t dare wear it on the left, I dread to think what would happen if you fell over and the crown dug into the back of the hand and this is smaller then the Zlatoust









*Zeno EA-02, Euro Navy Canteen Diver, 21 Jewel Miyota.*


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## raketakat

ebrandwein said:


> Hi folks, this is my first post here. I heard about this discussion over at the WUS Russian Watch forum. If anyone is interested, I did a review of the Zlatoust, including a wrist shot. Link below.
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> http://edscorner1.blogspot.com/2006_05_01_...r1_archive.html
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> It is a very interesting watch, just not a very wearable one. It would probably be ok over a wetsuit though.


Welcome to RLT Ed







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How rude of us







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## ebrandwein

raketakat said:


> ebrandwein said:
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> Hi folks, this is my first post here. I heard about this discussion over at the WUS Russian Watch forum. If anyone is interested, I did a review of the Zlatoust, including a wrist shot. Link below.
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Click to expand...

Thanks







Looks like a nice place. I usually hang out at PMWF and WUS. Looks like I'll be adding RLT to the rounds


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## Chascomm

Smokin said:


> http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/smkngun27/album?.dir=/96d7re2
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> Pix!!! Front, back, boxed, real papers, wrist shot. Lum shot...


Thanks for the pics









I noticed that the papers claim a pressure resistance of 3kg/sq.cm (for up to an hour? not sure if I read that right). Now maths is not my strong point, so somebody please check my sums, but I make 3kg/sq.cm to be roughly 3Atm or 30m


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## Smokin' Gun

Chascomm said:


> Smokin said:
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> http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/smkngun27/album?.dir=/96d7re2
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> Pix!!! Front, back, boxed, real papers, wrist shot. Lum shot...
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> I noticed that the papers claim a pressure resistance of 3kg/sq.cm (for up to an hour? not sure if I read that right). Now maths is not my strong point, so somebody please check my sums, but I make 3kg/sq.cm to be roughly 3Atm or 30m
Click to expand...

Thanks for the welcome guys! Much appreciated.

They are behemoth watches. However, they are great for cave, wreck, or deep dives.

I think that is the rating for the glass, but I find that hard to believe the crystal on it, at least the exposed portion is 5MM thick, and I do not know how thick the crystal is from there. The case itself from the inside (crystal to end of metal, with bezel off) is about 5MM.

I have been down further than 30 meters and no problems. My oldest movement is made with stainless and maritime brass. I do not know how to take it apartâ€¦I could, but the reassembly would be a tough one as I am not a watchmaker.

My friend did a few years back to service it, he is the one who told me, and it did not have any lubricate other than the 15 jewels.

BTW, I love the Zeno Diver with the Myota Automatic Movement!

John

P.S. I have a 9â€ wrist!


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