# Postie Came To-Day - In A Van



## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

with a :cheers: ebay purchase  - as you do :yes:










Mrs Mel is not all that impressed, but we'll see if we can weather the storm:-

above is the sales piccie which comes out small, I'll try for a better one than above.

It's a SEIKO 30 day mechanical chiming clock  complete for spares and repair - however it seems to be ticking away OK and keeping some sort of time already. Seller said the day/date isn't working well, and the chimes are flutched - it chimes till the spring runs down once it starts. So far I've only wound up the mainspring to see if it goes at all, I'll leave the chimes till Mrs Mel is away on a shops trip, otherwise she'll







:yes:

Edit add - it's 18 inches tall by about 11 inches wide - so even Toshi would be struggling for a strap - oh and it cost me Â£3.99 :lol:


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## scottswatches (Sep 22, 2009)

how far away is it? the photo is tiny, but what do you expect for Â£3.99!


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

I've got one Mel, two big springs to wind one for the clock and one for the chimes, Mrs Tips hates it, haven't had it running in years


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## Micky (Apr 2, 2009)

Bargain! Clocks and pocket watches seem to be loosing value rapidly atm. Perhaps it's the time of year because i've seen some real bargains on e-bay over the last few weeks. I got a Rolex pocket watch spares/repairs for Â£40.00 yesterday on the bay. That will be my next project. I think every house should have a mechanical clock. She looks a bit industrial from a distance Mel, like a clocking in clock or works/factory clock.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

pic of mine


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

It would be interesting to see the movement, Mel....mebbe there would be some clue as to why the chime is running away?.......... :dntknw:


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Gonna' try for some piccies tomorrow - it's more or less the same as Paul's (pgtips) except mine doesn't have the two red dot "fully wound" indicators.









It *does* have instead a day date function which I've just discovered has changed sometime between 5.30 p.m. tonight, when we left to give two hours worth of lessons, and around 9.00 p.m. when we returned. It's now showing 10.06 p.m. 24 Wed! 

So first task is to get some piccies and have a wee look at how the date change is supposed to work. It could be as simple as someone has taken off the hands and just stuck them back on again without regard to lining them up - they are held on by a knurled threaded ****. :to_become_senile:

Somebody asked if it was "industrial" - but I think not, maybe an office thing with the day date, but nice patterned front glass - could be used in a kitchen, office or home I would think. :yes:

More will follow, but don't expect the job to be doen as fast as Rodger's clock resto job, I need to take a bittie of time with this to get it going right. 

EDIT:- forgot you can't say kn0b


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

mel said:


> More will follow, but don't expect the job to be doen as fast as Rodger's clock resto job, I need to take a bittie of time with this to get it going right.
> 
> EDIT:- forgot you can't say kn0b...... :lol: Rog


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## clockworks (Apr 11, 2010)

I've got one of those Seiko Day/date clocks in my loft, awaiting restoration. Mine has a "lovely" melamine-finished case.

The runaway strike is probably caused by the rack falling too far (bent/broken rack tail), so that the gathering pallet doesn't engage the rack teeth. Another reason could be that the gathering pallet doesn't pick up the rack tooth properly.

Remove the hands and dial, and post some pics.


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## sam. (Mar 24, 2010)

Congrats Mel(great price),that should be an interesting and fun project for you to tinker with.(When Mrs Mel has gone out of course.) k:


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

clockworks said:


> I've got one of those Seiko Day/date clocks in my loft, awaiting restoration. Mine has a "lovely" melamine-finished case.
> 
> The runaway strike is probably caused by the rack falling too far (bent/broken rack tail), so that the gathering pallet doesn't engage the rack teeth. Another reason could be that the gathering pallet doesn't pick up the rack tooth properly.
> 
> Remove the hands and dial, and post some pics.


Oh come on Clockworks! what's a rack tail - and a gathering pallet :lol: any more of that kind of talk, and I'll post about a double reverse spin and a whisk and chasse :rofl2:

Yes, on the melamine finish case :yes: Piccies and dial off will have to wait, I found all the Philips drivers I have are a tad too big, and the screw heads are completely unmarked or chewed, so I'm off to get a driver that will do the job and not mark the screws before I bludger anything. 

Visual inspect makes me think the day date mech needs to be exposed and /or removed before tackling the dial to see the movement. I'm also waiting to see when the date change takes place to see how far out the hands are from the change time as well. :to_become_senile:

More tomorrow.


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## clockworks (Apr 11, 2010)

Should've followed Roger's longcase repair thread more closely, Mel!

The rack tail is the part that drops onto the snail, controlling how far down the rack falls just before it strikes the hours. The gathering pallet is the part that engages with the rack teeth to pull it back up again. For each strike of the bell/gong, the gathering pallet rotates once, and pulls the rack up by one tooth.

Just thought of an even simpler reason for the fault - the rack has flipped right round because the clock has been turned upside down at some time.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Steve, simple stuff first. The day/date change commenced at just before 6.00 p.m. - so I reckon the hour hand is six hours out. A quick unscrew of the centre kn)b reveals that the hands are "keyed", an the hour hand can go back on in two positions 180 degrees apart, and the minutes hand can do likewise 90 degrees apart - four positions. Filed in notebook and noted for re-assembly. Definitely just a case of re-positioning hands to trip the day date change.

Next, found a ceramic driver exactly the correct size for the Philips screws, so a visual means I took out the screws on the day/date section, to find out it's a complete sub-assembly which operates from a single lever on the day wheel, which in turn drives the date wheel which is actually 0 - 9 on an outer wheel, and 1 - 3 on an inner wheel, the inner being driven over by a tag on the outer. All this needs is a clean up and maybe a wee spot (tiny) of oil on the ends of the "bearings" :lol: - where the wheels run on the pillars/shafts. It's all a bit mass-produced stamped out, but performing quite well and appears to be working OK. Filed in notebook and noted for re-assembly (2).

Tomorrow it's Dial and Piccie day, for sure Guys.


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## JWL940 (Jun 11, 2010)

Can't wait for the photos Mel, the clarity of the face on PG Tips' clock is just stunning.

John


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## stevieb (Feb 12, 2010)

Mel, If you take some photos with your notes it helps considerably when it comes to reassembly [i'm not teaching you to suck eggs. just offering freindly advice]

You could also post some, so we can follow your project through to completion[ tell me to, "back off nosey". If i've stepped over a mark].

steve


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## The Canon Man (Apr 9, 2010)

The dis-advantage of not being retired is, although you can probably find Â£3.99 for a slightly broken clock, there is no way you could find the time to play with it long enough to ever fix it.

Enjoy your new toy Mel.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Thanks Guys, as promised, some piccies - but photography is no longer one of my skills - so apologies for quality! :lol:

First off this one:-










that's the dial and hands removed, and you can see the day date mechanism with it's operating lever at the right, this is all operating fine now with a gentle clean and a tiny tad of oil. It's an entirely independent assembly, and if you look at the bottom of the dial you can see the cutout in the rim of the dial to allow the lever to be tripped - there's no actual connection between the movement and the day date mech, just an operating lever on the dial with a gear train that turns onec per 24 hours to flip the date over. The date wheels are "spring assisted" to help them jup over - less strain on the movement I suppose.

Next the movement, still in case :-










The gear train at the bottom right is the 24 hour driver for the day date changeover, and looks like a bolt-on extra to allow SEIKO to offer the clock with and without day date change.

Up at the strike part of the clock, there is a snail I can recognise, and a rack, the rack is made to climb by the tri-wheel "Y" shape which has three pins on it, all OK, and this turns to make the rack climb. Also, there's a small spring keeping downwards pressure on the lever that operates behind the rack. Visually, the problem seems to be that when the rack reaches the end of it's travel, there's another lever behind this yet again (I've placed a *RED ARROW* on this for ID) and this should do something ? I'm not sure what ? to stop the strike via the indents on the snail bit?

Also, there's a pillar at around the one o'clocvk position which at present is serving to provide pressure on the fine spring that is bearing on the rack. .What bothere me is this - this pillar is a heluva size just to provide a resting place for a very fine spring, and it also has a groove for what could be a circlip to hold on some other part that's missing?

Having another poke later today, advice welcomed - BTW, I'm surprised there seems to be no way to switch the chimes off at all. Given how chimes are a Marmite thing - - -


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## clockworks (Apr 11, 2010)

I've not seen a movement like that before. Early Japanese stuff was mostly copies of earlier American clocks, but this is different.

As the rack "climbs", the rack hook (the bit that's pivoted from the right with the spring assistance) should drop down into the teeth, stopping the rack falling back until the next gathering pallet (the pins on the 3 -armed wheel) come around to catch the next tooth.

When the rack reaches the top of it's climb, the rack hook should drop lower (sitting on one of the flats on the 3-armed gathering pallet wheel), and the piece that's folded backwards on the rack hook will jam the pin on the wheel visible though the cutout, stopping the train.

The lever with the red arrow is the part that lifts the rack hook on the hour/half hour to initiate the strike sequence. Behind the plate, on the centre/minute arbor, there will be a cam that lifts this lever. The lever then lifts the rack hook, allowing the train to "run to warning" , where it will be held up, normally by another pin. In this case, it looks like the train warns by the red arrowed lever catching the same pin that the rack hook bears upon. When the arrowed lever drops off the end of the cam, the pin will be freed, allowing the train to run and strike.


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Thanks Steve, yes I've now found the pin you refer to on the wheel in the cutout, and I can see where the rack hook "should" drop down into the flat on the gathering pallet wheel. It is actually doing that, but it looks like it's maybe 0.5mm or less "out", and the pin just catches but not enough to jam the train, the rack hook lifts over the pin and thus doesn't stop the train. More to investigate, maybe wear?, when I get the movement out of the case. :to_become_senile:

Thanks to the wonders of digital photography, and those BIG piccies I've posted, if you take a look at the movement piccie - just below where I had placed the arrow on the lever that starts the strike train and on the bridge at the snail, there's a "mangled" fine spring of some kind, so this is going to have to wait till I get the movement out and see where it's jammed and what it might be - it certainly doesn't look right anyways, wrapped round part of the rack and hanging in midair near the bridge.









I can also now see what you mean about the lever that starts the strike, and how it looks as if it should lift to free off the rack from the pin to allow the strike.

More to follow Guys, the SEIKO saga! :lol:


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## clockworks (Apr 11, 2010)

Might just be a case of bending the tab on the rack hook that sits on the gathering pallet wheel so that the rack hook drops a touch lower, assuming that the gathering pallet wheel stops in the right place. The wheel is a push fit on the end of the arbor, and it's possible that it has slipped slightly.

Does it look like the movement has been worked on previously? It may have been "tweaked" by a previous repairer.

The mangled spring looks like it's there to make sure that the rack falls properly - spin the free end 360 degrees anti-clockwise, and hook it against the edge of the plate.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

mel said:


> More to follow Guys, the SEIKO saga! :lol:


Nice pics, Mel....it's nice to see someone else having a go! Interesting movement...like Steve said, I've not seen one like that in all my books...especially that triple gathering pallet. Keep up the good work...I'm sure you'll get it sorted....looking forward to the next installment!..... :notworthy: :thumbsup:


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## clockworks (Apr 11, 2010)

I've just realised what that post at one o'clock is there for - it's to stop the rack going "over centre" if the clock is turned upside down during shipping.

I think the simplest way to sort out the strike would be to remove the rack so that you can see what's happening with the lifting piece and rack hook relative to the warning pin and gathering pallet. With the rack removed, the train should lock and warn as normal, but only run for one strike each time it's released.


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## Roger the Dodger (Oct 5, 2009)

I'll just put in my (limited) two pence worth. I agree with Steve...the pin is a stop for the rack. In the pic, it's about to strike twelve, and I'm guessing that when the rack is fully gathered up, it will finish up with the pin in that curved recess under the right hand arm of the rack. Also, I don't know if it's just machining marks, but there appears to be some concentric circles on the snail...as though the pin on the rack tail has ridden up on the bevel of the snail and marked it..... :dntknw:


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

It's all come to a halt guys, the tools and spares are in the workshop in the garden, and I can't get near it for two and a half feet of snow. BUDGER!









I'll be back as soon as yhe snow dies abit, honest! :yes:


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Today was a good day - had time to poke tools at the Seiko again! :yes:

BUT! *WOW* the fix was easy, (well it looks like), the wee spring I reckoned was out of place and mangled - see the picture with the red arrow, just below the arrow, I removed the spring and it looks exactly like the one on the pin above ~~ but mangled a bit! :yes:

Anyhow whilst I was thinking about all that, I thought - need to wind the thing again, so off I go, - damnation, wound the wrong bit and it's started chiming again - - but this time it's stopped at twelve. 

Stick the hands back on and try some more chimes and now it all seems to be OK - my thoughts are a watchie has dropped the spring, couldn't find it, and put on another and this mangled one has been kicking around inside the movement, eventually ending up preventing the rack tail dropping by enough of a fraction to fool the chime mech into going onto "let's chine till the spring runs down" mode.

Of course I could be wrong and it's just luck - - "time will tell" h34r: Testing and waiting! :yes:


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