# UK Forces Issue Watches



## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Do any of you know where I can see a listing of watches issued to UK armed forces?

I also have a query re a particular watch: CWC.

Are the currently available *automatic* Divers watches issue or not? Seem to be some conflicting views. As far as I can tell only a few of these watches made back in the 80s could be properly described as issue. Ones currently made would be properly termed replicas of issue watches. I could be wrong.

Another query: Is there anything to stop a maker (and I am not referring to CWC here) simply stamping watch backs with a Broadarrow and appropriate numbers?

Advice appreciated as always.

Cheers, Simon


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## Foggy (Feb 25, 2003)

I'll have a go at the list, Simon

1) CWC quartz are the most common & still current issue. Precista made a similar watch.

2) Pulsar also made a recent quartz, but reliability was poor.

3) The Seiko RAF chrono's.

4) Diver's watches - CWC RN & SBS versions.

5) Mechanical chrono's - still some CWC's, Hamilton's, Precista's & Lemania's held in stores, but limited numbers.

6) A handful of Rolex Sub's still held in stores.

7) Maybe still some CWC & Hamilton hand wound watches ??

That's probably the bulk of the list, although I'm bound to have missed something really obvious or important









Re the auto CWC - no, it is not current issue. There was indeed an issued auto CWC diver in the 1980's, although I believe numbers were very small - maybe 300 ?? I've never seen one in person, but have seen a pic.

No, there's nothing to stop a maker putting the marks on a watch as far as I am aware. Just means extra caution is required if one is looking for genuine issue watches.

Cheers

Foggy


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Thanks Foggy for taking the time to do that. You should get some of your knowledge on a web page to save having to explain all these things to every nebie that comes along.

Your post leads me to another question: why does the currently available CWC RN diver come with issue numbers on it?


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## Foggy (Feb 25, 2003)

Hi Simon

I wouldn't mind having a web page but my computer knowledge is just about sufficient to allow me to use the web, and that's about it. I wouldn't have a clue about setting up my own web page









Re the CWC and issue numbers ?? Well, they have the stock numbers, which I guess anyone is entitled to put on the back of their watch. What they don't have are the actual issue number and year - that's the crucial difference for me. Here's an example of an issued SBS divers watch and its case back markings.










Cheers

Foggy


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Thanks again Foggy

Does any one know why the auto CWC diver was replaced so quickly by the quartz? ie were there any problems with the auto?

Cheers

Si


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## Foggy (Feb 25, 2003)

Hi Simon

I imagine 300 of the auto CWC watches was enough for the specialist jobs in which they were used. Probably the biggest factor why the quartz came in was price. One thing for definite though, is that it is very hard to find out any info on the early auto CWC divers. I'd love to find one for my collection, but I don't rate my chances









Cheers

Foggy


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Hi Foggy

As you have probably detected I am thinking of getting one of these.... a currently produced one that is, as an everyday watch, so I was just finding out a bit more about them. The CWC site is not one of the most informative.

Assuming that they are making them to the same standards as when they were actually an issue watch they should be a solid job.

Si


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## DavidH (Feb 24, 2003)

Just on that subject,

Is there any real difference between that cwc RN Diver and the Broadarrow as seen on RLT's website?

Are they out of the same mould only badged different?

David


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

I cannot compare them, hopefully someone can, as far as case etc is concerned but the Broadarrow does not come in an auto version yet.


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## DavidH (Feb 24, 2003)

Yet


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

I can compare the quartz ones :

CWC - Mineral glass , two year battery.

Broadarrow - Sapphire Crystal, 10 Year battery.

The CWC cost at least Â£100 more.

Thats the differences.


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## Foggy (Feb 25, 2003)

If I were looking to buy a good quality quartz divers watch, I would definitely buy the Broadarrow over the CWC - much better value for money.

However, as I collect military issued watches, the CWC is the one for me, but that's only because I want issued watches.

Cheers

Foggy


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Cheers for the continuing info. It is only the auto I am interested in. I did ask Roy about the timescale for this but I can't remember his reply; I think Eddie Platts is busy enough with the Dreadnought at present!


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## edge (Mar 8, 2003)

In the best tradition of movie classics "Im Back"

Forget CWC, been their, done that, and most of the rest

For value for money, toughness, relibility, accuracy and good looks you just have to try the O&W m series.

Yes its still on Roy, no problems "takes a kicking but just keeps on ticking"

best wishes

Edge


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Glad to hear it.


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Well to celebrate this move to Roy's new forum section (thanks Roy, good idea), I'll bring this back to the original subject: where to learn about military watch history especially related to the UK on the net.

Various permutations of Google searches don't really produce the kind of detailed info you might get if you were to look at, for instance, the history of cameras or computers.

This link is informative but mainly related to US issue watches:

Hyunsuk

This link is really informative but not military, very interesting if you like Omega or Heuer:

Chuck Maddox

This is the kind of thing I am looking for but more UK orientated.

In the meantime we are fortunate to have experts like Foggy reading queries on the site regularly!


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## Foggy (Feb 25, 2003)

Hi Simon

Chuck's site is VERY good - he really is an expert in his chosen field, and also happens to be very handy with HTML programming. I am neither I'm afraid









However, I do have a keen interest in mil watches, so will certainly chip in whenever I think I know an answer to a question.

Cheers

Foggy


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## Foggy (Feb 25, 2003)

Sorry, forgot to mention, Hyunsuk takes some of the best photo's of military watches that I have ever seen. He is also a leading light in the field of franken-watches - simply stunning.

Cheers

Foggy


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Hi Foggy, how are you?

Do frankenwatches have any validity for a collector? Do they not just make the business of sorting out the original from the fakes more difficult?

Do you mean he is an expert in detecting frankened watches or in making them?

Looking around his site he certainly has a great range of enthusiasms!!

I love finding people like this on the net.

Si


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## Foggy (Feb 25, 2003)

Hi Simon

To clarify, Hyunsuk is a master at creating hybrid watches. For example, taking a Seiko diver and customising it. He has inspired many people, including myself, to have a go at such projects. His projects are/were unique, and are collectible in their own right. They are not passed off as trying to be anything other than a customised watch, so I have absolutely no problem with that at all. Some of the watches he has created are simply stunning.

What is a problem for collectors of military watches are fakes. Yes, these do make sorting out the wheat from the chaff difficult. Luckily for me, most of the fakes are the higher end stuff which I can't afford anyway - eg fake mil-Subs, RN Seamaster 300's etc. There are also some creative engravers out there who will take a civilian watch, add some engravings on the back, and hey presto try and sell it as military. I have seen ATP's like this, and they're amongst the cheapest vintage British mil-watch that can be bought. There are plenty of redialled Omega's too - take a cheapish civilian Omega Geneve for example, redial it black and add a broadarrow, and then all of a sudden it is being passed off as a rare military piece. Add to that plenty of fake Omega WWW's out there, with probably the only genuine Omega part being the movement. ie fake case, dial and hands. Some of them are frighteningly good, but there is normally a tell tale sign if you look close enough. That's just the tip of the iceberg - The list is endless, so yes it is a bit of a minefield.

As with any field of collecting, knowledge is the key. Plus it's good fun too









Cheers

Foggy


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## doogie (Jun 4, 2006)

Does anyone know a good site with pics of various issue watches? Looked at Broadarrow but can't find much else. Also does anyone know much about MKII watches? They look like Ollech and Wajs models but I must say I like one or two of them.



Foggy said:


> Hi Simon
> 
> To clarify, Hyunsuk is a master at creating hybrid watches. For example, taking a Seiko diver and customising it. He has inspired many people, including myself, to have a go at such projects. His projects are/were unique, and are collectible in their own right. They are not passed off as trying to be anything other than a customised watch, so I have absolutely no problem with that at all. Some of the watches he has created are simply stunning.
> 
> ...


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## Belsaye (May 25, 2006)

Foggy said:


> Hi Simon
> 
> I wouldn't mind having a web page but my computer knowledge is just about sufficient to allow me to use the web, and that's about it. I wouldn't have a clue about setting up my own web page
> 
> ...


Hi Foggy

Re your own webpage, I use serif for my web page, took me two hours to produce my own, if I can any one can, you can even get a free version of webplus 6, their earlier software from http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/software/...lus/default.asp

I use the webplus 9 which does cost, but gives you a discount on a web hosting site.

BTW thanks for all the information that you have provided regarding issue divers watches I have found it invaluable. As for the CWC quartz diver's I have one, I swear by it , not at it.

Regards

Belsaye


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