# Couple Trench Pieces



## James (Jul 17, 2006)

Looking to pick up a couple. Think I found what I like. Don't know much about them other than I have dealt with the seller before and they are 15 jewels.

Will I find ones in any better condition or is this about the norm? Thanks


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## Russ Cook (Feb 12, 2006)

Hello James,

I am sorry to have to say,at the very least,they are redials.Alright if they are cheap and just to be used as a fun watch,but not original.

Regards,

Russ.


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## chris l (Aug 5, 2005)

I've been watching these, too, James, but as wearers because, as has been said, they appear to be redialled at least, and possibly converted pocket watches...

Good looking watches, though...


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## blackandgolduk (Apr 25, 2005)

I've seen a few of these on the 'bay and agree with Russ and Chris that they are re-dials, most likely converted from Molnija pocket watches. So long as it doesn't 'suck-up' all the original Molnijas, then that's not necessarily a terrible thing but just be aware that they're not 100% original. Having said that, the Molnija movement is a good piece and they are pretty good looking watches - likely to be quite big!


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## Xantiagib (Apr 22, 2005)

Even original ones with the type-1 movement in them - there are many redials of...

this is what an original one would be like: type-1 infantry watch


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## AbingtonLad (Sep 8, 2008)

A quick story - and one of those Doh! moments in life :frusty:

Visited a mate at the weekend and he told me that his grandfather served in the navy during WW2. At one stage he was sent to northern Europe to help break German blockades of various ports. Somehow he came out of this not only in one piece (unlike most of his friends) but in possession of a watch, binoculars and flag belonging to a Russian sub captain! 

I don't think he ever revealed how he came by these items, but it's safe to say all three were pretty fabulous. Sadly they were flogged on when the old chap died - much to my mate's disappointment.

Does anyone know what the watch would have looked like? Was there a standard issue for the higher navy ranks during the war? I think matey boy is considering looking for a 'replacement' but I get the feeling that will be far from easy... :no:


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## James (Jul 17, 2006)

Yea not sure. They do look cool but i don't see a serail number on the dial as in the link you gave. Mind you 15 jewel so could be that movement. But could be the Molnija too. They are quite large 48mm so it makes me think perhaps a recased molnija, not sure how large the real ones were.

Hmm there was a pic of the black piece's movement


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## mike.s (Feb 17, 2009)

Unfortunately 99.5% of old "vintage" watches coming out of Russia and Ukraine today are simply fakes. Strong statement, perhaps, but I've been watching this market for the past three years and visited a couple of eBay sellers in person to talk to them and understand what they are doing. Speaking the language helps in that respect 

What is happening and has been happening for the past 10-15 years, really, is pretty disgusting if you ask me. First it was vintage cameras. Find a Zorki or FED, put on fake gold plating, grind down the name, engrave Leica IIIf on it and a Luftwaffe eagle - there you go, you can sell these for $100-$300 to tourists on Arbat in Moscow. The price would purely depend on their gullibility. My first camera was the original Zorki, so it was interesting to me to see this.

Now on to the watches. The world, apparently, is full of watches that are 50+ years old now and do not adhere to any known laws of physics. Ukraine is a supplier of old Soviet 1MChZ stuff in numbers that the old 1MChZ never dreamt of making. They are also, apparently, in possession of every single H.Moser/IWC watch out there. All, mind you, are in absolutely perfect cases and with perfect dials. i have seen stacks of newly printed dials in the "shops" that assemble this "NOS" watches in Ukraine. I've seen the new cases and was offered pretty much any case with any back that I might want.

Russia/Ukraine is not unique to this "craft". South America is full of new-looking Girard-Perregaux and Omegas. At least some of them on eBay state that the dial was 'refinished".

So, sorry to make this semi-rant my introduction to the forum, but I had to get this off my chest. I would like to warn others who might be confused as to what they are buying. I own a couple of older and newer Soviet/Russian watches and am forever on a hunt for my first watch, my Grandfather's Pobeda. Along the years I've learned a few things as well. So, if anyone needs help in interpreting Russian markings or similar things, do not hesitate to let me know.

Mike.S


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Welcome to the forum Mike & an interesting first post always good to have people with useful knowledge on board


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## Xantiagib (Apr 22, 2005)

no sweat mike, tell it like it is! knowledge shared is a problem halved or something like that...


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## James (Jul 17, 2006)

He gave me the pic of the movement and the engravings from the tan dialed piece

Anyone know what these mean?

15 Jewel, I get that one!


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## mike.s (Feb 17, 2009)

James, please take a look at the first photo of this thread: http://forum.watch.ru/showthread.php?t=728...%B7%D0%B8%D0%BC

Looks familiar? This is Молния (Molnia) pocket watch mechanism as far as I can tell. The size is about right. the case and the dial, of course, are new. Hands are new as well. Have nothing to do with Kirovskie.

BTW, Soviets started making their own watches in the 30s, essentially. So these can not be considered trench, if I understand the word trench to identify WW I pieces mostly. But that's semantics, not really important. Here's a trench from my collection, though it's not Russian;


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## mike.s (Feb 17, 2009)

Sorry, here's a trench pic:


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## mike.s (Feb 17, 2009)

BTW, not sure if this has been posted here, but a very good set of pics of Soviet watch logos with explanations and years of manufacture can be found here: http://www.netgrafik.ch/russian_logos.htm

So, the fact that there is a ЗИМ mark should bring up a question.


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## mike.s (Feb 17, 2009)

And one more URL that shows this actual ЗИМ calibre towards the bottom of the page: http://watchesz.free.fr/mfa/lip_au_pays_des_soviets.htm


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## Russ Cook (Feb 12, 2006)

Hello Mike welcome to the forum.James some of my type 1`s including a factory 53,all in good/fair condition,all keeping excellent time.





Regards,

Russ.


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## James (Jul 17, 2006)

Thanks for the pics and links, very good


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## mike.s (Feb 17, 2009)

Russ, those are just beautiful! "Where does he get those wonderful toys?" How large are they in diameter?


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## Russ Cook (Feb 12, 2006)

Hello Mike,Thank You.Size is about 43/44mm not including crown.

Regards,

Russ.


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