# Miyota vs Seagull



## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

I have been thinking of buying another Parnis ( stop rolling your eyes :bash: ) just because I like the look of them and the two I have have been luckily issue free.

I do notice a premium on Miyota auto movements versus others, including SeaGull.

Are Miyota really worth a forty quid premium over SeaGull?

Opinions.........I thank you :thumbsup:

Cheers

.


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## JDMdenon (May 11, 2017)

I've never heard if Seagull movements! I know of Miyota, I think its owned by Citizen and alot of their movements can be found in the Boreallis line of watches from Portugal!


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

SeaGull are " can be good" Chinese movements. :yes:


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## JDMdenon (May 11, 2017)

RWP said:


> SeaGull are " can be good" Chinese movements. :yes:


 I'd go with Miyota!


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## RWP (Nov 8, 2015)

JDMdenon said:


> I'd go with Miyota!


 Youve only got to say " Chinese." SeaGull do have a long heritage.


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

Seagull do make good movements if assembled and lubricated correctly.

But out of the two it would have to be Miyota no contest for me very well made movements and as far as I am aware no QC problems.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Seagull ST2551 movements are used by Gerlach and are listed as "grade A" in their applications.

I have read comparisons comparing the ST2551, the Miyota 9015, and the ETA 2824-2 in the same group. I don't know how old this is, so the prices may be out of date.

"

*These are the three most popular Automatic movements used in the watch industry today:*

1. The Chinese Seagull 2551 movement (costs $17)

2. The Japanese Miyota 9015 movement (costs $55)

3. The Swiss ETA 2824-2 (costs upwards of $146)

The automatic Chinese movement for $17 isn't necessarily less accurate, but its cost-friendliness has to come from somewhere: the pallet fork, escape wheel and bearings are often low quality which negatively affects durability and longevity. Another drawback of the Chinese movement is its bulkiness; let's just say it's hard to make it look elegant on the wrist...

The Miyota movement performs at the same accuracy as entry level Swiss movements. It's proven itself over years and is easy to service. The Miyota is considered the workhorse in the industry and is significantly slimmer than the Chinese movement.

The main difference between the Miyota 9015 and ETA 2824 is the "dual winding rotor" which makes for a practically inaudible watch. It also has less positional variance which means as you move, the time will be kept more accurately. Everything Swiss Made also comes with intangible value as the Swiss are historically great watchmakers and the driving force behind many of the most significant timekeeping inventions of our time."

As to the accuracy of the above information I can't comment, what I will say, through experience, is that Chinese manufacturers are capable of producing high quality mechanical components in a number of fields, but where they always seem to fall down is in after sales marketing and product backup. Here today and gone tomorrow importers, and a lack of understanding in that when something breaks today, tomorrow is late enough for a replacement. I have every faith in the Quality of the movements used by Gerlach, but why bother servicing one if a replacement is so cheap ?


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## JimboJames1972 (Jun 3, 2016)

I have a Seagul movement in my 1963:



Apparently this is a reissue of a Valjoux (?) movement that they bought the rights and tooling to. In other words, it is pretty much a Valjoux. I think.

Anyway, it looks beautiful. It is also pretty accurate (better than 5sec a day last time I checked) and site in one of my favourite, keeper watches.

J


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## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

Only experience I've had with seagull was in Parnis and they were absolute ish!!!! Garbage. Junk.

However the only miyota Parnis I've got had this far been flawless. I've always trusted miyota. It's always proven me valuable.

So I don't trust anything Chinese.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk



WRENCH said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong.
> Seagull ST2551 movements are used by Gerlach and are listed as "grade A" in their applications.
> I have read comparisons comparing the ST2551, the Miyota 9015, and the ETA 2824-2 in the same group. I don't know how old this is, so the prices may be out of date.
> 
> ...


You get what you pay for. End of story.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk


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## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

JimboJames1972 said:


> I have a Seagul movement in my 1963:
> Apparently this is a reissue of a Valjoux (?) movement that they bought the rights and tooling to. In other words, it is pretty much a Valjoux. I think.
> Anyway, it looks beautiful. It is also pretty accurate (better than 5sec a day last time I checked) and site in one of my favourite, keeper watches.
> J


That is gorgeous.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JimboJames1972 said:


> I have a Seagul movement in my 1963:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 ST 5 doesn't look too bad either.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

JayDeep said:


> Only experience I've had with seagull was in Parnis and they were absolute ish!!!! Garbage. Junk.
> 
> However the only miyota Parnis I've got had this far been flawless. I've always trusted miyota. It's always proven me valuable.
> 
> ...


 Like most things, if you take the time to do the research your are probably correct. I see it was your birthday recently, I have some Chinese watches that are older than you, and work perfectly well, that cost at the time including delivery to the UK $14. Of course, even at that price, purchase was not a rash decision, I took notice of the opinions of many experienced collectors first, which paid off.


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## JayDeep (Dec 31, 2016)

WRENCH said:


> Like most things, if you take the time to do the research your are probably correct. I see it was your birthday recently, I have some Chinese watches that are older than you, and work perfectly well, that cost at the time including delivery to the UK $14. Of course, even at that price, purchase was not a rash decision, I took notice of the opinions of many experienced collectors first, which paid off.


Chinese automatics? Or quartz? Huge difference.

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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

I couldn't comment, I, like most others would be most interested to learn from your long term ownership experience, and sources of research information.

Here is a non biased comparison by someone with experience.

http://watchguy.co.uk/comparison-sea-gull-calibre-4057-and-glycine-calibre-fhf-96-4/


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## ong (Jul 31, 2008)

I've had watches with both movements. One was a Parnis GMT copy and the other an Armida. Appreciated there were differences in manufacturing skill and market level intent but the Miyota ran rings round the Seagull movement in bpm 28800 vs 21600, accuracy - 2 secs a day vs - 15 secs. Nice smooth hand wind vs no hand wind. I could go on but I was impressed with the Miyota movement in the Armida.


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

WRENCH said:


> ST 5 doesn't look too bad either.


 The ST5 is an excellent movement even the mainspring barrel is jewelled.


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

PC-Magician said:


> The ST5 is an excellent movement even the mainspring barrel is jewelled.


 Agree completely. I bought two NOS ones years ago and they have both been excellent, the watchmaker I used at the time used to chase me if I took anything Russian to him, but after showing him the movements, he agreed to service them "out of interest" and was complimentary about them.


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## futuristfan (Sep 13, 2009)

Claro Watch SA owned by watch making US giant Fossil love SeaGull so much they have made it Swiss. The Claro-Semag calibre CL-888 is used in hundreds of thousands of "Swiss Made" watches.

The CL-888, is essentially a Chinese Seagull ST16 with just enough modification to make the "swiss-made" claim. While Rotary brands it as it's own Calibre R.1002.21, it's one on the "Swiss\Chinese" movements used in many watches in this segment, like Swiss Legend, Modern Zodiac's and other like I believe Stührling. Technically it's passes "swiss-made" designation but....

Below blurb taken from Claro website.

*CLARO Watch SA has been operating in Hong Kong and Greater China for over half a century and it has developed a solid network of relationships within the region. In consideration of this, CLARO made a strategic decision to re-engineer an existing calibre that was readily available from the market. After carefully evaluating a number of options, CLARO selected a traditional, long-established calibre from the Far East that was originally developed by a Swiss group.*

*Starting with raw parts, CLARO Watch SA completely re-works, cleans, measures, sets and tests each part before adding our 100% Swiss-made content. The full assembly is completed, tested and calibrated in CLARO's wholly-owned factory in Bellinzona, Switzerland. We control each phase of the process, ensuring the delivery of a higher quality product.*

*Our CL-888 is currently being used by twenty different Swiss and international brands. In 2008, over 100,000 pieces were produced and sold. The movement is 100% Swiss made under the terms of Swiss Federal Law."*

So import the ebauches to Switzerland, Assemble add a screw and Swiss made mainspring et voilà.

I do believe some watch brands do this with Miyota movements also but further research would need to be done.


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

I seem to remember a watchmaker telling me that the Cl-888 was not terribly good.


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## futuristfan (Sep 13, 2009)

PC-Magician said:


> I seem to remember a watchmaker telling me that the Cl-888 was not terribly good.


 The ST16 that it is shall we say based on is an entry level workhorse which the consensus seems to be that it follows the layout of a Miyota Automatic? The plot thickens :biggrin:


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## WRENCH (Jun 20, 2016)

futuristfan said:


> "Swiss\Chinese"


 These should be branded "Swinese" . Oink! :yes:


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## fredwastell (Mar 15, 2017)

As most people on the forum only wear a watch about one day a month, is longevity and accuracy less important. I know the purists would argue with this point of view but if it were accuracy I wanted I would buy a quartz.


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## PC-Magician (Apr 29, 2013)

I can only speak for myself and yes longevity and accuracy is important.

The Rotary I am currently using is keeping spot on time and I mean spot on, its running a Selita auto movement and I have worn it for the past seven days.


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## Wookie_66 (Sep 30, 2013)

The minotaur I had the self winding mechanism was very noisy


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## The Minute (Dec 24, 2017)

I have several watches with Mingzhu and Seagull movements. The movements are excellent, albeit the autos are a little noisy.


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