# Help With A Thomas Russell And Son Pocket Watch I'Ve Inherited



## ensignabbi

Hello,

I've been left this lovely watch and I'd just like some back ground on it.

I think its gold, its all hallmarked, even every link in the chain. It opens sideways and the back has on outer cover and an inner cover to get to the workings which are very pretty.

I'm not sure if its age, or they were ment to be like that but the hands have a metallic blue tint to them. The biggest visible cog in the back has a clouds/weather type picture engraved on it.

I've put some pictures on public view on Fliker since I dont know how to put them on this post.

You can see the pictures of the watch here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ensignabbi/sets/72157626551775404/

I'm really just curious about it, is it common? when was it made? materials? what type of gentleman owned one? whats the picture of the weather on the big cog about? how much was it to buy when it was made and do i need to alter my home inurance now? Anything really.

Thanks in advance for your help.


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## a6cjn

That's a nice set up. Thos Russell produced good quality watches which are popular with collectors.

It has a Swiss movement and is called a Hunter watch as the front flips open to reveal the dial - which seems to be in good condition without any hairline cracks. From your pics, it seems that the crystal (glass) is missing.

For further information, we really need to see more pics, particularly the markings on the inside of the dust cover. If it is hallmarked then you will be able to date it, if it says someting like 'guaranteed for 20 years' then it is a filled case.

Is it plain on the front and back or does it have any engravings or a monogram?

As to monetary value, if it is hallmarked then it is a solid gold case and depending on the grade, 9ct, 14ct or 18 ct then it will be worth a substantial sum

The Albert Chain is hall marked and like the case, depending on the grade will be worth lots

If you are wanting to sell these, I would suggest selling them separately, you can weigh the chain and work out the gold value yourself. If the watch has a solid case, ask a friendly jeweller to drop the movement and weigh the case for you

The gold prices will give you an idea of what to expect in a sale.

However, IMHO, watches and chains like these deserve to be put into top condition and worn

Chris


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## ensignabbi

Thanks Chris,

Im guessing the original crystal is missing however the watch has a plastic replacement.

On the inside of the dust case opposite the face is engraved, 'TR&S', '8226' (serial number?) and '9.375'

There are two covers to the back, on the outter on is engraved the same as above but also '9' an 'L' (Liverpool?) in script and a tiny shield/crest with three dots/heads? in it. The inner back cover shows the same marks 'TR&S', '8226' and '9.375' and a '0'

Sorry, tried to get a picture but its so shiny, I can only get a picture of the refelection of my camera 

Its a plain case but in lovely condition and the watch still works lovely.

I'd much rather see it go to a loving home than torn up for scrap gold.

Cheers.


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## ensignabbi

Done some more research... the tiny shield/crest with three dots/heads in it is the Chester 3 Sheaves of Corn for the Assay office I think.


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## a6cjn

The 9.375 stamp is good news - 9ct gold, there may be an import mark as well

Sadly, a significant number of pocket watches are being scrapped because of the gold price and Albert chains are being converted into necklaces and bracelets (or scrapped)

However, it is important to know the gold content and value as that will help you establish a price for selling.

Unfortunately loving homes ain't always got the money 

For an approximate price guide have a look at the 'completed listings' on Flea Bay

Chris 

P.S. I've got a very loving home


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## ensignabbi

Where do I find these completed listings?

A quick value of the weight of the chain has put it at around Â£250. I'm going take the watch to a jewellers in the morning to try find the weight of the case.

Fingers crossed we can find a buyer who wants to keep it in one piece, unforunatly its not my decision and whilst I would prefer to keep it intact, my Dad, who it belongs to is probably more interested in getting the maximum return for it.

I suppose with the price of gold, watch collectors must be finding it difficult to protect nice pieces from being scrapped.

Is there scope to sell the workings of the watch if the case goes to be scrapped?


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## Roger the Dodger

Hi, Ensignabbi (and welcome to the forum!). The weather picture you refer to on the barrel sprocket is actually a winged waterwheel, which, along with the Latin inscription Tempus Fugit (Time flies) on the intermediate cog were the trademark of Thos. Russel. They were usually found on the dial, as well as the movement, as here on my brothers example.










The blued finish to the hands is achieved by heat treating the plain steel hands until they change colour to that beautiful finish.


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## a6cjn

Completed Listings - go to my Ebay, enter the topic/title and press 'Advanced Search' and then scroll down and tick the 'completed listings' box - a useful guide to see recent prices.

I'm surprised the chain is not heavier, today's 9ct scrap price is Â£10.60 per gram - I would have thought it would be heavier than 24 grams

I dunno about the market for movements, but if the watch is working, there's no need to scrap it. That option normally arises when the watch isn't working and would be costly to repair

Chris


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## Roger the Dodger

Hi Ensignabbi....did a bit of Googling, but couldn't find very much about date lists for your watch....however, I did come across  this page  on the NAWCC (National association of watch and clock collectors) forum in which they were discussing this very subject, plus some interesting facts about Thos Russell watches in general. I'm sure with a bit more digging around on there, you may find some of the answers to your questions.


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## ensignabbi

Thanks very much Chris and Roger.

I've also done some research and if the date mark for gold is the same as for silver at chester assay office (it is for the Birmingham office) then the script letter L I decribed means it was Hallmarked in 1911.

The NAWCC forum thread is very enlightening. I've managed to find out a bit about the company but the serial numbers dont seem to be very structured and I'm having trouble identifying what the serial on mine is.


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