# "Services" Competitor



## Krispy (Nov 7, 2010)

This "Services" Competitor arrived today and I can't find out anything about it. I was hoping our resident expert might be able to shed some light??

It says 'German Made' on the dial. It is ticking away although stiff to wind. Also, the crown doesn't seem to want to come out to set the hands and I don't want to force it - was wondering whether the little button at 4 o'clock had anything to do with it?

Here she is and thanks in advance for anything you might be able to tell me:


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

I'm sure Mach has posted about this setup before. Yes, I think the button is part of the time setting process. The "German Made" must put it in the earlier part of the 30's. The grumpy one should be along shortly to reveal all. 

Later,

William


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## andyclient (Aug 1, 2009)

I believe you push the pin in with your finger nail to move the hands not pull out the crown ,same as some of the earlier pocket watches


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## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

This "Compy" is certainly an early one, and looks to be pin set as Andyclient suggests. Did you ask Mach's permission before buying this? He usually has "first dibs" on every Services that's for sale . In good enough condition for it's age, usually the case backs are scruffy - sweat corrosion etc! :yes:

Pin set, - push pin in and hold whilst turning the crown with your other (third) hand  - - can be a bit fiddly. Also pays to clean and de-gunge the pin itself if you can, then relube minimally around the pin, they get gunged upswith wrist detritis


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

KrispyDK said:


> This "Services" Competitor arrived today and I can't find out anything about it. I was hoping our resident expert might be able to shed some light??
> 
> It says 'German Made' on the dial. It is ticking away although stiff to wind. Also, the crown doesn't seem to want to come out to set the hands and I don't want to force it - was wondering whether the little button at 4 o'clock had anything to do with it?
> 
> Here she is and thanks in advance for anything you might be able to tell me:


I wondered who`d nabbed that one, well done :thumbup:

Right, firstly the crown is fixed, to adjust the hands check out 2a in these instructions from the inside of an original Services box...










I `ve got this near identical Competitor...

*"Services"** Competitor `Plain Dial`, German Made (by Thiel Brothers Thuringia Germany), circa late 1920s/early 1930s*










Early "Services" were marked with either the country of origin eg `German Made`, `Swiss Made` or simply `Foreign`, the change appears to have happened in the early/mid-1930s, my suspicion is that it might have been due to increasing tension with Nazi Germany & a feeling by Services that having `German Made` on a watch could effect sales. I suspect that the reason they did the same for watches made in Switzerland was that it might have been a bit obvious if only some were marked as being `Foreign`, my circa 1935 Services catalogue appears to back up this theory.

I note that the hands on yours are slightly shorted then mine most `Plain Dial`("Services" speak for unlumed) Competitors & Despatch Riders with a similarly dial I`ve seen which have had hands the same length as mine, I don`t know if someone has cut yours short or they are meant to be like that, I do have a spare set of long ones you can have FOC if you want. I`ve got a similar vintage Despatch Riders & Competitors but they have either plain backs or ones with a different pattern to yours with a shield in the middle however that doesn`t mean yours is wrong it seems to fit properly so may be one I`ve not yet come across,I`ve seen Thiel watch back designs not unlike it as well so who knows. One thing you`ll notice is that the `Davina` movement used in these has an extremely slow tick sounding something like 2 beats per second, 120 per minute 

Anyway IMO they are great old watches, not fantastically accurate but personally I can forgive something that`s around 80 years old & anyway I think they are dead cool B)

If it needs servicing my I recommend Steve Burrage, he`s worked on all mine & is therefore very familier with this movement 

BTW here`s a group of some of my early Thiel `made `Davina` powered "Services"...

*"Services"** `Despatch Rider` & `Competitor` Lumed & Plain 12 & 24 hour dials, made by Thiel Brothers Thuringia Germany circa late 1920s/early 1930s*










please excuse the old crappy photo h34r:


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## Krispy (Nov 7, 2010)

Mach,

Thank you so much for that detailed reply and sorry for taking this one!!

I'm not sure about these hands, maybe they have been chopped at some point, it's really hard to tell. And thank you for the offer of your replacement hands, that is ever so kind. I may well take you up on that and get this one off for a service from Steve as you suggest, I'd love to get this one back to full strength and as clean as possible. I feel an obligation to look after this one because of just how old it is. The dial is somewhat cracked but that also adds a bit of charm IMO.

What I am really surprised about is how big it sits on the wrist for such a small watch, I think the height of the case really helps and makes it one of only a few vintage watches I could maybe get away with actually wearing. The slow tick is also very distinctive and something I've not heard before.

The strap it has arrived on has had it - could you also point me in the direction of where you find your fabric ones from? Bunds just don't look right one me!!

That is a wonderful group shot at the end, I love the Comps you have there and especially the 2 Dispatch Riders on the right, absolutely stunning.

Thanks again for all the info


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

mach 0.0013137 said:


>


I knew you'd posted the directions for this watch type before, I just couldn't remember what thread I had seen it in.









Later,

William


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

KrispyDK said:


> Mach,
> 
> Thank you so much for that detailed reply and sorry for taking this one!!
> 
> ...


You`re welcome & don`t believe Mel, I don`t want every Services watch that comes up for sale (just most of them)

As you say the aging does add charm & they do wear bigger on the wrist, as to the straps I got them from a local market stall a few years ago but have no idea where I can get some more. The only other possibliity I `ve so far come across is this one, the listing states that you can specify a silver buckle rather then the gold one.

A lot of particularly early "Services" were available in 12hr `Plain` & `Lumed`(in addition to the cream dial I have also seen black versions) plus 24 hour `Plain` dials with at least three different case styles up to the early 1930s. So far I`ve got 7 (5 Despatch Riders & 2 Competitors) `Davina` powered "Services" from this period plus one `sterile` Thiel :wink2:


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

KrispyDK said:


> It is ticking away although stiff to wind.


I forgot to mention that every Services I`ve come across using the `Davina` movement or its later modified `higher` beat version have been stiff to wind even after they`ve been serviced, it just seems to be a feature of the movement. It can become a `bit` hard on the finger & thumb when you`ve wound up 10-15 of these watches :bored:


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## Krispy (Nov 7, 2010)

Cheers Mach, that's put my mind at rest about the state of the insides of this. Would love to have a look in there but am too clumsy to take a knife to it to open it. Just about getting the hang of the pin set but boy its fiddly with large hands and short finger nails. It seems rather stiff to set the hands too, is this normal?


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Here`s a photo of the movement, there is a slight difference between the early & later models but I won`t bore you with what it is :yawn:

*Thiel `Divina` movement as used in *

*
**"Services"** Despatch Riders & Competitors circa late 1920s/early 1930s*










BTW there is an even later `silver` coloured version which has a higher beat & what appears to be narrower hand shafts.

The pin set can be fiddly,as to the hands these are fairly crude movements so not as smooth to operate as a modern one but things do improve with a service :wink2:


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