# My First Eco Drive



## USMike (Mar 16, 2003)

Someone posted this watch which was being sold on eprey by a Singapore dealer. I looked at it, liked it and bid Â£86.00. I was eventually outbid and it sold for Â£103.00. I emailed the seller asking if they had any more. They replied saying they had one left and asked if I wanted it for my Â£86. bid plus Â£9.00 shipping. They said to send Â£94.00 via paypal if I wanted to buy it, so here it is in Nashua, NH, USA.










Description was:



> CITIZEN MODEL AT0040-51L
> 
> CHRONOGRAPHÂ (60 minute dial at 10:00)
> 
> ...


Snooping further, I saw the watch on a Japan dealer's site stating it had a suggested price of US$ 305.00 Nice watch, not as substantial as a Seiko but very nice for the price. Guess I'll give my RLT4 a rest off the wrist for a few days so I can wear this and the Poljot I stole from Roy on Watch Bay. Darned if they didn't both arrive in the same mail delivery.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Hi Mike, it was me that posted the first picture and despite Mark F's reservations I still think it's a fantastic looking watch.

I haven't the balls to buy from singapore, good old british reserve telling me it will either go wrong and I'll lose my money or I'll get clobbered for tax when it comes in.

I take it the bracelet is integral and it can't be changed for a strap?


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## sssammm (Oct 7, 2003)

i did exactly the same, i got mailed too,

my watch arrived yesterday and the chrono does not work!!!!

dead as a dodo

not worth the aggro

sam

ps. no replies to my mail either, ......we shall see what occurs


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## Mrcrowley (Apr 23, 2003)

Mike

I saw that & was quite impressed. Unfortunately I was put off when I saw the location


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## USMike (Mar 16, 2003)

sssammm said:


> i did exactly the same, i got mailed too,
> 
> my watch arrived yesterday and the chrono does not work!!!!
> 
> ...


Sam,

The Citizen's chrono was also dead when it arrived. Several hours in the light solved the problem and it is now perking along, just like a quartz. Damn I hate the jerky second hand.

PG,

The bracelet does appear to be integral but I can't be sure. There is a pin hole where the lugs would be and another pin hole in the first link. You can pass a sheet of paper between the watch and the bracelet. All of the links are pinned. It fits nicely so I'm not inclined to fool with trying to fit a strap. I'll take a chance sending money to Singapore but won't mess around with the bracelet. Besides, I've been wearing my Auction Bay Poljot since it arrived.

I also was concerned about buying from Singapore but I guess I got lucky. The seller has great feedback ratings and many positive comments from buyers. They very promptly answered my email so I felt comfortable sending the money. The exchange rate for Â£ to US$ stinks but overall it was a positive experience.


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## sssammm (Oct 7, 2003)

hi mike,

mine was working fine telling the time, second hand etc, surely if i had the time going for 24 hours the chrono should work,

by the way , if you look its a 2 second hand, jumps every other second

wierd!!!

sam


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## Nalu (Nov 28, 2003)

Usually a 2 second jump means an incompletely charged watch.

Give it a full day in the sun. Or 4 overcast days if you're in the UK









I bought a diver on eBay from a Singapore seller (watches59), keeping my fingers crossed....


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## sssammm (Oct 7, 2003)

oooops!!! sent it back


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

Sam,

Nalu is correct, it means the cell is low on charge. They are designed that the chrono will not work when the charge is low as priority is given to timekeeping until you charge the watch. I've found a full day in the sun charges them nearly completely. I doubt that your watch was faulty......


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Eco Drive battery info. etc.

*
What Is Eco-Drive? *Citizen Eco-Drive watches use the simplest, yet most technically advanced power generating and storage system in the Watch Manufacturing Industry. A Solar Cell and a rechargeable battery are the power provider for these Quartz Watches. Eco-Drive's ability to use light from any source to generate electrical power means that the supply is limitless and free. The absence of any added complex power generating machinery that would require additional upkeep is another big advantage.

*What Is A Solar Cell?* The Eco-Drive watch uses a microns thin disc of amorphus Silicon under the dial to convert light energy into electrical energy through the photovoltaic process. The electrical energy is then stored in a rechargeable battery. The charging is done in a more efficient manner than was ever before thought possible. Because of this newly developed technology, it is now practical to use a wide variety of attractive dials.

What Kind Of Battery Is Used In Eco-Drive? The Lithium Ion battery. It is of such quality that the normal charge/discharge cycle affects it to such a small degree that it doesn't need to be replaced like an ordinary silver oxide battery. With normal care and exposure to light, the owner can be assured of a lifetime of reliable and trouble free time-keeping. As an added benefit to the environment, it contains none of the caustic chemicals used in ordinary batteries.

My Instruction Book Refers To A Secondary Battery; are There Two Batteries In My Watch? No, there is only one battery in your Eco-Drive watch and it is a rechargeable one, (referred to in paragraph above). Technically, a rechargeable battery is often called a secondary battery. Unlike Eco-Drive watches, most quartz watches use a silver oxide battery technically referred to as a primary battery which is used until it is depleted and then it's discarded.

*How Long Will My Battery Last? The battery will last for a lifetime of use. The factory engineers project that even after twenty years, the battery will still have eighty percent of its ability to be recharged.*

What Does It Mean When The Second Hand On My Watch Jumps 2 Seconds At A Time? It means that the reserve power is getting low and that the battery needs to be recharged. See Low Charge Warning Mode following

How Can I Tell If The Watch Is Not Getting Enough Light? In normal use, the watch displays the time and the sweep-second hand moves in one second intervals. A very important feature of Eco-Drive is the Low Charge Warning Mode which as a result of low battery voltage, causes the second hand to jump two seconds at a time (while still keeping correct time). When this signal is seen, the watch should be exposed to bright light following the recharging guidelines shown in its instruction manual. There are two exceptions to this signal: the Eco-Drive two hand models and the Chronograph models.

Two Hand Models

In The Two Hand models, the minute hand which normally moves at 1/3 minute intervals, begins moving once every full minute to indicate that it is in a Low Charge State.

Chronograph Models

In the Chronograph Models, the second hand moves to the 'Charge' position on the dial and remains there until it is sufficiently recharged or stops.

The Low Charge Warnings appear if the watch has not received sufficient light to maintain its power reserve and is a reminder that the watch should be exposed to bright light until it is charged up again. After it is sufficiently charged, the second hand will go back to the normal one second jump by itself, this includes the Chronograph models. The Two Hand models will resume normal operation.

What Does It Mean When My Second Hand Jumps Alternately In One And Two Second Steps? It means that your watch has stopped and it needs to be charged up and set to the correct time. See Time Reset Advisory following.

My Watch Is Running But Appears To Have Lost Time. A second important feature, Time Reset Advisory, warns that the watch has stopped completely and then been exposed to enough light to start running again. The time shown would likely be incorrect and need to be reset after recharging the watch sufficiently. To indicate this warning, the sweep second hand movement alternates between two, one second jumps and a two second jump (hitch movement) with the following two exceptions: the Eco-Drive two hand models and the Eco-Drive Chronograph.

Two Hand Models

Time Reset Mode in the two hand models is indicated when the minute hand moves distinctly and quickly in three 1/3 minute increments at the end of each full minute.

Chronograph Models

In the Chronograph models, the second hand moves to the 'Set' indication on the dial.

How Do I Get It To Return To Normal Operation?

After the watch has stopped and been restarted by exposure to bright light, it will remain in the Time Reset Warning (hitch movement) mode until one or the other of two things happen:

First, if the watch is set to the correct time after partial recharging, the hitch movement will change to a two step movement indicating that more charging is needed. While charging is continued, the watch will keep correct time and after sufficient charging, will go back to the regular one second step by itself.

Second, if the watch is not set until after it is charged up to a sufficient level where the circuit signals the watch to start the one second step again, it will stay in the Time Reset Advisory (hitch) mode. However, after it has reached the above charge level, and the time on the watch is set, it will go back to the normal one second step movement.

The amount of charging time, under varying light conditions, to go from a stopped watch to a one second step is shown in each instruction book.

When the watch has received the charging time recommended in its instruction book and the time has been set, the hitch movement and the two step movement will disappear. The sweep second hand on the Three Hand models and on the Chronograph will then return to the one second step and the minute hand on the Two Hand models will return to the normal 1/3 minute stepping operation. Reminder: the recharging time, shown in each instruction book will differ depending on the caliber number.

I Did Not Get An Instruction Book With My Watch (Or It Is Lost), Can I Get Another One?

Click here to be taken to the Instruction Booklet Request Page (UK Customers Only)

What Is The Quick Start Feature?

All Eco-Drive watches are equipped with a Quick Start Feature with the exception of a few models. This means that in the event that the watch has been stored where it had no exposure to light for recharging and had run until the battery was completely discharged, several seconds exposure to bright light would start it running. The instant the watch started running, it would go into the Time Reset Advisory Mode shown by the hitch movement (described previously under the Time Reset Advisory section). The same charging requirements and setting the time would be necessary before the hitch movement would be canceled.

How Long Will My Watch Run After It Is Fully Charged? Your watch is designed to run continuously and will do so if it is regularly exposed to bright light. Your watch uses very little energy and that is easily replenished during normal use. If your watch is put away where no light is available to it while in a fully charged state, depending on the model, it will run for from 45 days to 5 years (Caliber No.E760). Click here to see the Eco-Drive Recharging Guide.

My Watch Doesn't Seem To Be Taking A Charge, What Could Be Wrong?

The predominant reason for failure to charge is that the watch is not getting sufficient light. Influencing this are the short cloudy days and long nights of Winter. It is advisable that the watch be used normally, but exposed to bright light on a regular basis in order to enjoy its carefree use.

How Can I Be Sure That The Watch Is Not Faulty?

Follow the guidelines in the instruction manual that came with your watch and fully recharge and set the correct time on your watch. After that is done, if the watch still does not operate as expected, you may return it to us for free of charge warranty service. For more than ninety-nine percent of the Eco-Drive watches returned to us for service, it is only necessary to fully recharge the watch to resolve the problem.

After My Watch Stopped, I Had The Battery Replaced But It Still Doesn't Run, What Do I Do? A persistent problem coming in to the Repair Department is watches that have been damaged due to someone's attempt to replace the original rechargeable battery by substituting an ordinary silver oxide cell. The damage is apparently done by those who have little or no training in watch repair.

A warning label, placed on the inside caseback of each Eco-Drive model, states, "do not put other than the battery designated" and the part number for the rechargeable battery, 295-XX, appears prominently on the movement cover. This information appears to have been ignored completely.

Additionally, the correct battery has a spotwelded gold colored connecting strap which is necessary to make contact with the circuit of the watch. There is no such connector on a silver oxide substitute so no connection can be made to the circuit, consequently the watch will not run. In some watches, the original battery has been pried out, damaging the circuit and displacing parts.

The present policy for handling any Eco-Drive watch damaged in the above manner is that it will be repaired and returned to the customer at no charge as a courtesy. In addition, it is emphasized that the rechargeable battery in an Eco-Drive watch should only be changed, if ever necessary, by a Technician. In most cases, sufficient recharging was all that would have been needed.

While Charging My Eco-Drive Watch, It Was Damaged By Excessive Heat. How Does This Happen?

Although not a frequently occurring problem, the Repair Department receives Eco-Drive watches which are damaged due to excessive heat during recharging. Warning is given in the instruction books not to subject the watch to conditions where the temperature may exceed 140 degrees Fahrenheit. Examples given are: charging the watch on the dashboard of a car, using an incandescent lamp(regular light bulb) closer than 20" or using a Halogen lamp.

The Policy for handling this kind of accidental damage to Eco-Drive includes dial replacement and any necessary repair done at no charge as a courtesy. Additionally, recommended procedures for safe charging are reiterated.

How Can I Recharge My Watch In A Safe Manner?

Exposing your watch to ambient light on a daily basis is sufficient to keep it charged up. If your watch displays the Low Charge Warning however, it can be safely charged by exposing it to a fluorescent desk lamp, with the dial(face) up and within about 8 inches or an incandescent lamp(regular light bulb) no closer than 20 inches. Never use a halogen lamp since the heat generated by it can cause damage to your watch. The most efficient and the quickest is in direct bright sunlight(not windowsill) and never on the dashboard of a car.

How Can We Keep The Eco-Drive Watches In Our Display Cases Properly Charged Up? The most important thing is to always make sure that the watches are 'face up' in bright light. The best position in the case for them is in the middle on the top shelf. It is equally important that they not be displayed on the second or third shelf down or in a wall case where there is insufficient light to keep them charged.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

......So, was his watch buggered or not then Griff??????.....


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Respect Griff,

You put a lot of work into that post.


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## sssammm (Oct 7, 2003)

im not sure, but i sent it back, so i expect i will get a working one back, but from the write up, it seems i may not have charged it up

cant do everything right,

cheers

sam

thanks for the write up griff


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2004)

Blimey what a lot of techno jargon, charging watches, capacitors etc.

Whats wrong with a chronograph you just wind up or even an automatic one?

Too primitive?









I know its old fashioned but it works!









BTW Nalu, Watches 59 is OK, you'll have no problems with him.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Neil,

I agree. I don't mind setting a watch each day; I have to set most of my mechanical ones each day. Because I like them to be accurate, I am anal retentive but I love my watches!









No problem for me.  Teletext is a valuable friend.









It's good to see the advances that have taken place in horology since I was just a boy. I had no problems with the humble watches of my youth.

I do have some respect for radio controlled watches and the well accepted quartz generation.

But I would always have the same respect for the "humble" mechanical watch; they have a charm that belies their country of origin or age. 

If a watch is â€œoutâ€ by 30 seconds a day we have the ability to compensate for that as our forebears did. I can still do it.

Though, I have no prejudice against increased accuracy.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Yes, all true, and there is a bit of a revival in the interest in mechanicals, but it must be fairly stated that most of todays younger generation don't give a stuff about watch passion; they want accuracy, and that means mainly quartz, and if it means no maintenance too, as with solar/eco drive or even kinetic, then that is what they want. It's more than opinion too; it's fact. Most women don't understand the watch passion that us fellas have, and they want the accuracy in the way described. There is no doubt that Citizen for example, and Seiko too, are at the sharp end of moving forward with technological advances, and are growing in respect because of it. The long techno jargon I posted earlier is not reflected in a corresponding complication of use, but just the opposite. Nothing could be easier and neater than an Eco Drive quartz, and I can see that very clearly even as a lover of mechanicals.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

This is my first eco-drive, a 200m diver. I love this watch.

One piece case, superb bracelet, large, easy to use screw down crown ( smoothest I have ever used ). Great lume, superb timekeeper and all for Â£120.










Another....


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Garry I have the exact same watch, it was a gift from a lady friend,


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2004)

Griff said:


> Yes, all true, and there is a bit of a revival in the interest in mechanicals, but it must be fairly stated that most of todays younger generation don't give a stuff about watch passion; they want accuracy, and that means mainly quartz, and if it means no maintenance too, as with solar/eco drive or even kinetic, then that is what they want. It's more than opinion too; it's fact. Most women don't understand the watch passion that us fellas have, and they want the accuracy in the way described. There is no doubt that Citizen for example, and Seiko too, are at the sharp end of moving forward with technological advances, and are growing in respect because of it. The long techno jargon I posted earlier is not reflected in a corresponding complication of use, but just the opposite. Nothing could be easier and neater than an Eco Drive quartz, and I can see that very clearly even as a lover of mechanicals.


A "bit" of a revival?

All the top makes are making virtually nothing else than mechanical.

Would a JLC Master Geographic be the same without its complicated movement and instead a bit of circuitry installed and called an eco drive or whatever.

I assume the name eco drive is to show the eco friendliness of citizen by not having replaceable batteries like ordinary quartz watches, but what could be more eco friendly than a mechanical watch?

I personally think that the Japanese just keep bringing out new technology for the sake of it. And of course to sell more watches. Are the watches any better? No. Just more gadgety.

I must sound like a Luddite to you gadget freaks but there it is.

Its not an eco drive or quartz but I like it.

Omega speedmaster 1967 Pre-Moon Cal. 321.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

What do you think of it Roy??. I think they are superb value for the build quality.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

As you say Neil, the TOP makes still concentrate on mechanicals. Griff is right though, most people don't give a stuff and it's also down to what you like. I like both, but prefer mechanicals.

It cannot be denied that there are a lot of superbly made quartz watches as well as mechanicals.


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

I like it Gary, built like a tank.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Garry said:


> This is my first eco-drive, a 200m diver. I love this watch.
> 
> One piece case, superb bracelet, large, easy to use screw down crown ( smoothest I have ever used ). Great lume, superb timekeeper and all for Â£120.
> 
> ...


 Good solid watch Garry.









I think Eco Drives are a great thing, and outside of the flippant reference to "gadget".

I quite like my SMP mechanical too, but will save you any tiresome posting of a picture of it!!!!


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## Gordon (Aug 8, 2003)

Got this one today as a gift from my wife today ....










Really like it, and quite well made ...


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## DavidH (Feb 24, 2003)

.....Â£120?

Have they any more of them?


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Gordon,

That's a very nice looking watch, I do like this particular style.









Got this on now.


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2004)

Garry said:


> As you say Neil, the TOP makes still concentrate on mechanicals. Griff is right though, most people don't give a stuff and it's also down to what you like. I like both, but prefer mechanicals.
> 
> It cannot be denied that there are a lot of superbly made quartz watches as well as mechanicals.


Garry

I agree with you there are plenty of well made quartz watches out there.

And I unlike many collectors have nothing against quartz. They can't be beaten for accuracy right out of the drawer.

My reservation comes with the eco drive system, as far as I can see all it does is save you having a battery replaced every 4 years or so.

I wonder how this type of system will fare in the long term?

If a fault develops with a quartz watch most repairers will just chuck out the movement and fit a new one will this be the same with the eco drive?

The Seiko Kinetic was another quartz no battery idea but then after a while faults were developing with the capacitors which involved fitting new ones at the cost of Â£60 each which somewhat negated the whole idea.

Griff

I'm sorry if you took my "Brain washing" quip the wrong way its just that I remember you panning Miyota movements previously at every opportunity and now you have wholeheartedly embraced Citizen.

I just wondered what caused the change of heart?


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

neil said:


> Garry said:
> 
> 
> > As you say Neil, the TOP makes still concentrate on mechanicals. Griff is right though, most people don't give a stuff and it's also down to what you like. I like both, but prefer mechanicals.
> ...


 The Eco Drive system changed my mind.

The rechargeable cells in these will still have 80% ability to recharge after 20 years. I checked with Citizen. Mine has a Panasonic MT621

I do not dismiss this option as mere gadgetry. I think it is good innovation, and the ideal solution for an accurate and reliable long term zero maintenance time piece, and I have acknowledged this rather then be dismissive.

I've forgotten the Brainwashing quip, and believe in a one day at a time attitude and good humour


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## Sargon (Feb 24, 2003)

I believe the Kinetic problem was with the intital batch. From what I hear the problem has long since been resolved. I've had mine for a while and it's still happily ticking away.


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

Picked up the new Argos catalouge today. 4 new eco drives. The cheapest being Â£50. Still think I'd rather have a nice auto.

Just a thought Roy are the eco drive movements available on their own? What's the possibilities of an Eco drive RLT6 or similar? Would it be feasible?


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

The Eco drive movements can be bought and I may make a watch with one in the future.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

Good stuff Roy.............we look forward to it.

................


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## pg tips (May 16, 2003)

I'm full of good ideas aren't I?


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

You are PG.

But then again, you are in the " Exclusive " Bugger All Club..........


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