# novice needs advice



## van den (Apr 20, 2020)

Hi,I recently asked the question when to lubricate a cannon pinnion.The reason I asked this is Ihave a swiss pocketwatch,which i was informed dates around 1918.When i got it ,it ran very erratic ,but i could set the hands.I stripped and cleaned and oiled.The hands didnt move at all after.I noticed the centre wheel pin was loose in the wheel,on inspection i noticed its tapered,and the cannon pinnion is a thick walled type,.When you try to set hands only the hour wheel moves.when wound the watch now runs for 28hours and gains about 8 mins.big improvement,Am i right in thinking that the cannon pinnion grips the center tapered pin and should turn it within the center wheel when setting hands.As the watch is very old i dont want to keep stripping and reassembling without knowing what i,m doing.One thing i didnt mention was I have tried to increase the thickness of the tapered pin by swedging,on the staking set.also i have tightened the cannon pinnion slightly.Hope someone can throw some light on this,thanks


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## nevenbekriev (Apr 21, 2019)

Hi,

It is better to show pictures when asking. Now I am not sure what type is the watch - key wound or keyless…

No mater, if all parts are original to the watch, then You need to put the movement on the staking set with the head of the pin down on anvil with no hole and put a punch with flat head with a hole on the canon pinion, then hummer the punch so cannon pinion goes down on the pin.

This is a common mistake - people think that the friction should be between pin and hole in the center wheel. So they bend the pin or try to make it wider somehow… No, actually the friction is where the head of pin touches the end of the upper center wheel pivot and where the cannon pinion touches end of downside centerwheel pivot. The right amount of friction is achieved by correcting the position of cannon pinion on the pin. When moving the pinion towards the head of the pin, a moment will come when there is no axial free play of the pin in the hole of the center wheel any more. That's when friction will appear. And amount of friction can be regulated by hummering the pin towards the head or towards the top of the pin.

Also, the points of friction must be oiled, othervice tampering may ocur

But, if the pin or cannon pinion are not original to the watch, and they are not correctly selected when replaced, then no correct adjustment of friction will be possible.

So, please try to adjust and show here the result…


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## van den (Apr 20, 2020)

thanks , i will try and let you know


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## van den (Apr 20, 2020)

Sorry, should have said its keyless, and as far as i know looks original.As for pics I am going to have to look into how you upload pics,Iam new to this.Ref to tapping cannon pinnion down it is as far as it will go, i have already tried to adjust cannon pinnion,but had to take off and using a broach slightly adjust,as when trying to set hands was very stiff.crown now moves ok .with ref to top of pin and wheel do i need to take out pin and re adjust what i have done in reguards to making pin wider to grip on wheel.Thanks.


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## nevenbekriev (Apr 21, 2019)

Hi,

OK, I still am not sure what exactly You did, may be due to my bad English…

I will try to explain it another way.

The cannon pinion must stay still on the pin. When moving hands, it must turn together with the pin. So the pinion is tapered very hard on the pin, and it is not easy to take it out when disassembling, and, it is hard to put it back on place when assembling.

If You enlarged the hole of the cannon pinion, so it can turn on the pin and the pin stays still, this is wrong. As the hand stays on the pin, but not on the cannon pinion, the hand will not move when setting the time…

If I misunderstand, and the pin moves with the pinion when setting time, the friction is enough and not too much, then everything is OK and no need to worry about…


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## van den (Apr 20, 2020)

Ok thanks ,With what youve explained here i think the problem lies with the tension between pin and the wheel.as i have made pin slightly larger to grip wheel.thinking that it should not move within wheel.I guess i just have to work out correct resistance between pin and wheel when all assembled.thanks for help.will let you know outcome


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## van den (Apr 20, 2020)

Hi, getting closer to solving issue.have had it working ok, but after awhile cannon pinnion has lifted on center pin.bit more adjustment needed.


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## van den (Apr 20, 2020)

After a little more tweaking,have got it working.Thanks again for help. :thumbsup:


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## nevenbekriev (Apr 21, 2019)

:thumbsup:


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