# I'Ve Gone A Bit Roamer Crazy



## Robbiec

So, I joined here a few weeks ago looking for a bit of advice on a Roamer Pall Mall which actually had a rebranded ETA movement in it. Things have escalated a bit since then :thumbup:

I now have the following or will do once the post man gets his act together:

Roamer Popular (MST352), my wife stole this off of me and will not relinquish it...

Roamer Pall Mall (MST414)

Roamer Rotodate 44 (MST437 - believe this is reasonably rare)

Roamer Rotopower 44 (could be an MST436 or 470, will find out next week when it arrives)

Roamer Mustang Roto44Date (MST471)

Roamer Stingray Roto44Date (again either a 437 or 471)

I will stop buying now and concentrate on sorting this little lot out with a bit of servicing and refubishment.

Pics to follow as they arrive


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## Dr_Niss

So that's where they have been going.

I have a thing about Roamers too but am not an expert.

Looking forward to seeing the pics


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## martinzx

You have been busy  & certainly have the bug

can't wait to see the pictures

Cheers Martin :thumbsup:


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## Robbiec

So the Rotopower 44 arrived, caliber MST470 44J, rotor is loose, winding staff is loose and it is dead on arrival. Face is perfect and case is in good condition with exception of a scratch on one side.

The Mustang is running perfectly, and keeping excellent time, I have not been able to figure out how to get into this but I have a feeling its a MST471 44J based on the age. I can get so far into it, pop off winding crown, press on the glass and the whole unit parts from the case. The glass then can be popped off. The face and movement should then come apart from the case back easily enough but this one seems jammed. The face has a few marks on this but I am liking the whole 70s look this has. Pictures as promised later once I get home.


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## Robbiec

Ok some picture as promised 

I'll concentrate on the standard Roto 44s first.

Rotopower 44, Stainless Steel:



















Rotodate 44, Stainless Steel:



















As you can see both have led tough lives but seem to be original down to the straps which bear the same name. I assume these were low to middle end automatics when they were first sold.

The Rotodate just needs a good service as it runs for 12 hours or more losing roughly 5 minutes in the hour. But the date function works correctly. The Rotopower on the other hand is a non functional example.

To access the movement is simplicity in itself. I use the following steps:

Pull out winding crown, then give a tug until it comes off (no tools necessary)

Pop open case back with sharp knife or case opener

The movement will come off with case back

Remove bezel around face

Turn face down and movement will drop out

Pop glass through case back

Watch disassembled for service

Some photos of disassembly:

Pop off crown and open case back










Remove Bezel


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## Robbiec

Push glass through on case and you have a disassembled Roamer RotoPower 44 










MST470 44 Jewel Movement










MST437 44 Jewel Date Movement










Faces uncovered


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## Robbiec

Observations:

1: The Rotodate seems to be a higher specced model face wise and certainly movement wise. It just seems that bit more refined, the movement is machined more finely for one thing, at the time it was their flagship model and no expense seems to have been spared on the movement, compared to say an Omega 600 series available at the same time and probably for a higher cost its like comparing a BMW to a Fiat. There seems to have been a cost saving effort put into the design between the 43* series and the 47* series.

2: Where they did make savings is the case, glass and back, talk about simplicity. The case is effectively a steel ring with some lugs, the glass is plastic or mineral based and the case back looks to be machined inner press fitted into a plated shell.

3: All the backs have a hand engraved serial number, I have to get a macro to show examples but i'm on the lookout for one now


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## andyclient

After reading this thread i just had to dig out my Roamer and have a look , as i didn't realise they made a watch with so many jewels.

As nothing was mentioned on the front of mine (roamer rotodat)i had to open it up and have a look inside , a little disappointed at only 23 jewels but never mind . Believe it is a cal 441 going by the numbers on the movement.

cheers

Andy


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## Robbiec

Some info on the MST441 is available @ Trim's Roamer Site. Go to the Technical data section | Movement Data | Automatic Calibres.


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## andyclient

Robbiec said:


> Some info on the MST441 is available @ Trim's Roamer Site. Go to the Technical data section | Movement Data | Automatic Calibres.


Nice link thanks for that

cheers

Andy


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## trim

Robbiec said:


> Observations:
> 
> 1: The Rotodate seems to be a higher specced model face wise and certainly movement wise. It just seems that bit more refined, the movement is machined more finely for one thing, at the time it was their flagship model and no expense seems to have been spared on the movement, compared to say an Omega 600 series available at the same time and probably for a higher cost its like comparing a BMW to a Fiat. There seems to have been a cost saving effort put into the design between the 43* series and the 47* series.
> 
> 2: Where they did make savings is the case, glass and back, talk about simplicity. The case is effectively a steel ring with some lugs, the glass is plastic or mineral based and the case back looks to be machined inner press fitted into a plated shell.
> 
> 3: All the backs have a hand engraved serial number, I have to get a macro to show examples but i'm on the lookout for one now


1. Indeed no expense spared, the 44 jewel models were not cheap watches. The movement is actually a work of art. The only real saving on the 471 seems to be in the machining to the front, although on the 28 jewel models the difference is more significant. Some 470 and 471 used the heavier earlier rotor as well.

2. Actually the patent waterproof cases were complex and expensive, especially when compared to a normal screw back case. A lot more machining and precision was needed and the seal from the crystal is ingenious. To make the case they needed around 4 forming operations just on the inner case. They eventually dropped the cases in the 1970s due to cost - they also only appeared on the higher end models, like the Anfibio/Stingrays etc. The popular was a cheaper model with a standard case and same movements. Also, the stainless they used was particularly high grade and suitable for heavy salt water exposure. The gold plated versions were usually a medium 20 microns, but premier models had more. Don't underrate these cases they are fine and a distinctive feature.

3. If you are talking about the number inside the case, it is a case number and not unique. The outside bears the case patent numbers until 1966, and after that the model numbers (incl Calibre) and patent numbers.

I am envious of your 437, I have yet to find one.


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## Robbiec

trim said:


> Robbiec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Observations:
> 
> 1: The Rotodate seems to be a higher specced model face wise and certainly movement wise. It just seems that bit more refined, the movement is machined more finely for one thing, at the time it was their flagship model and no expense seems to have been spared on the movement, compared to say an Omega 600 series available at the same time and probably for a higher cost its like comparing a BMW to a Fiat. There seems to have been a cost saving effort put into the design between the 43* series and the 47* series.
> 
> 2: Where they did make savings is the case, glass and back, talk about simplicity. The case is effectively a steel ring with some lugs, the glass is plastic or mineral based and the case back looks to be machined inner press fitted into a plated shell.
> 
> 3: All the backs have a hand engraved serial number, I have to get a macro to show examples but i'm on the lookout for one now
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Indeed no expense spared, the 44 jewel models were not cheap watches. The movement is actually a work of art. The only real saving on the 471 seems to be in the machining to the front, although on the 28 jewel models the difference is more significant. Some 470 and 471 used the heavier earlier rotor as well.
> 
> 2. Actually the patent waterproof cases were complex and expensive, especially when compared to a normal screw back case. A lot more machining and precision was needed and the seal from the crystal is ingenious. To make the case they needed around 4 forming operations just on the inner case. They eventually dropped the cases in the 1970s due to cost - they also only appeared on the higher end models, like the Anfibio/Stingrays etc. The popular was a cheaper model with a standard case and same movements. Also, the stainless they used was particularly high grade and suitable for heavy salt water exposure. The gold plated versions were usually a medium 20 microns, but premier models had more. Don't underrate these cases they are fine and a distinctive feature.
> 
> 3. If you are talking about the number inside the case, it is a case number and not unique. The outside bears the case patent numbers until 1966, and after that the model numbers (incl Calibre) and patent numbers.
> 
> I am envious of your 437, I have yet to find one.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Trim.

1: The 437 has a shine on it the 47x do not have. Its almost like every piece has had an extra careful polish.

2: Looking over the case backs and I now see what you mean. I still think that the top of the cases were simplified for production / cost savings.

3: I can see the non unique case / model no, ie 170 471. There is also on all the Roto 44s I have an hand engraved no, alpha numeric, 15 - 20 charactors long.

The Pall Mall MST 414 has been joined by 2 other 414s. These will be my training movements  I have slowly collected my starter kit over the last few months and have joined a couple of online courses so the original 414 has been sacrificed to help me learn. It was case less anyway with an over sized dial so was never going to be a fixer.

I am also expecting a Stingray RotoPower 44 and RotoDate 44, both from the bay at reasonable prices. The Mustang Roto44Date is my daily watch now and the time keeping is excellent. It needs a new dial tbh as parts have flaked off but I am liking its 70's look and feel while knowing that I am actually wearing a masterpiece of engineering on my wrist.


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## trim

Robbiec said:


> trim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robbiec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Observations:
> 
> 1: The Rotodate seems to be a higher specced model face wise and certainly movement wise. It just seems that bit more refined, the movement is machined more finely for one thing, at the time it was their flagship model and no expense seems to have been spared on the movement, compared to say an Omega 600 series available at the same time and probably for a higher cost its like comparing a BMW to a Fiat. There seems to have been a cost saving effort put into the design between the 43* series and the 47* series.
> 
> 2: Where they did make savings is the case, glass and back, talk about simplicity. The case is effectively a steel ring with some lugs, the glass is plastic or mineral based and the case back looks to be machined inner press fitted into a plated shell.
> 
> 3: All the backs have a hand engraved serial number, I have to get a macro to show examples but i'm on the lookout for one now
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Indeed no expense spared, the 44 jewel models were not cheap watches. The movement is actually a work of art. The only real saving on the 471 seems to be in the machining to the front, although on the 28 jewel models the difference is more significant. Some 470 and 471 used the heavier earlier rotor as well.
> 
> 2. Actually the patent waterproof cases were complex and expensive, especially when compared to a normal screw back case. A lot more machining and precision was needed and the seal from the crystal is ingenious. To make the case they needed around 4 forming operations just on the inner case. They eventually dropped the cases in the 1970s due to cost - they also only appeared on the higher end models, like the Anfibio/Stingrays etc. The popular was a cheaper model with a standard case and same movements. Also, the stainless they used was particularly high grade and suitable for heavy salt water exposure. The gold plated versions were usually a medium 20 microns, but premier models had more. Don't underrate these cases they are fine and a distinctive feature.
> 
> 3. If you are talking about the number inside the case, it is a case number and not unique. The outside bears the case patent numbers until 1966, and after that the model numbers (incl Calibre) and patent numbers.
> 
> I am envious of your 437, I have yet to find one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the info Trim.
> 
> 1: The 437 has a shine on it the 47x do not have. Its almost like every piece has had an extra careful polish.
> 
> 2: Looking over the case backs and I now see what you mean. I still think that the top of the cases were simplified for production / cost savings.
> 
> 3: I can see the non unique case / model no, ie 170 471. There is also on all the Roto 44s I have an hand engraved no, alpha numeric, 15 - 20 charactors long.
> 
> The Pall Mall MST 414 has been joined by 2 other 414s. These will be my training movements  I have slowly collected my starter kit over the last few months and have joined a couple of online courses so the original 414 has been sacrificed to help me learn. It was case less anyway with an over sized dial so was never going to be a fixer.
> 
> I am also expecting a Stingray RotoPower 44 and RotoDate 44, both from the bay at reasonable prices. The Mustang Roto44Date is my daily watch now and the time keeping is excellent. It needs a new dial tbh as parts have flaked off but I am liking its 70's look and feel while knowing that I am actually wearing a masterpiece of engineering on my wrist.
Click to expand...

Hi Robbie,

They were actually pretty proud of their case - in 1955 when they first introduced the Roamer patented version (previously they had licensed the E. Morf case from 1945) they ran a big advertising series on how tough these watches were. Things like 'run over by a tank', submerged in a submarine, put through the washing machine, etc. Over time the inner movement mount was simplified a little, but in general I don't see a massive difference between the earlier and later ones.

I agree in general about the polish, although there does even seem to be a difference even between early and later 470/1. No doubt though that the 436/7 was king.

None of my 436/470/471 watches have anything resembling a serial number. I find this perplexing, could you email me some photos please.

Good to see you're building a nice collection. I also love wearing my Mustangs, probably being that little bit chunkier in today's world. I look forward to seeing what you get next.


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## Robbiec

Hey,

Ok so first up is the Rotodate 44 (MST 437)










Rotopower 44 (MST 470)










Stingray Roto44Date (MST 471)










I used a 50mm Macro with a 3 piece extension to help magnify. Sorry about the lighting, have a to a proper light box for this kind of work. But the extra alphanumeric codes are clear. It looks like they took their time with the original Rotodate though


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## trim

Those are watchmaker's service marks. Unfortunately they are rarely useful for dating as they were watchmaker specific.

Always nice to see, as it means the watch has been well cared for. I suspect watchmaker who used to service the 148437 was a particularly good watchmaker.


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## Robbiec

A couple of the recently arrived Stingray 44. The caliber is the MST470, with 20 micron gold plated case. All I've done to it is replace the strap and gave it a quick wipe down. Time keeping is excellent, maybe loosing a minute every couple of days. New crystal and crown on the way to finish it off.


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## Roamer Man

So, how many is that you've found now, and in record time? I'd love to know where you found so many...


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## Robbiec

So far in the last 2 months 

1 * MST 437 Rotodate

2 * MST 470 (Rotodate 44 (this one is kaput, needs a complete rebuild) & Stingray 44)

4 * MST 471 (2 * Mustang 44s 1 silver faced, missing the top baton, dial is scratched badly and i'm waiting on a black faced one to arrive from France any day now, 1 * Rotodate 44, 1 * Stingray 44)










So left to right:

Roamer Pall Mall with MST448, solid 18K gold casing - running ok but needs a profesional restoration - this started my Roamer fixation 

Roamer Rotodate 44 with MST 437, replaced strap, crown and crystal - going away for a service this month

Roamer Mustang Roto44Date with MST471 - replaced strap with a Birkenstock jobbie, top baton has fallen off, dial scratched - running beautifully - this one is everybodies favourite when I wear it, I have a new dial for this that exactly the same with one exception - its marked Stingray instead of Mustang 

Roamer Stingray Roto44Date with MST471 - replaced strap, crown and crystal - this is the prettiest of the lot IMO - Running ok - looses a couple of minutes a day - service due

Roamer Stingray 44 with MST470 - replaced strap only so far - needs a new crystal and crown - this one is interesting, not as pretty as the previous Stingray, more serious, more expensive looking

Roamer Rotodate 44 with MST471 - needs strap and service, dial needs dusting, hands are squared off examples - date changes at 3am or so - needs a service and a new strap!

For the 44s, Germany is the best hunting ground for sure. There have been at least 2 show up on Ebay UK in the last month though, my personal favourite hunting ground in France / Belgium , cheapest so far is â‚¬30, most expensive was the Stingray 44 @ â‚¬48, average spend per 44 is around â‚¬35, it helps that most do not know what they are selling though. I still have to find the elusive to me at least RotoPower 44 with a MST436.


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## Roamer Man

Robbiec said:


> For the 44s, Germany is the best hunting ground for sure. There have been at least 2 show up on Ebay UK in the last month though..


Yes, and I think I know who bought them - me! Actually I found three on eBay UK, all with the MST 471 movement and all apparently running nicely, but each with it's 'minor' issues. I really thought I was onto a good thing - until I handed them to my repairer for him to have a look at because the winding/setting action didn't feel quite right on two, and one had an obvious cannon pinion issue.

The upshot is the Brevete stainless-cased Rotopower44 is irrepairable because spares are simply not available at all. The Rotodate44 Stingray may be repairable, if the ever-diminishing stocks of spares have not been mislabelled at the warehouse. Yes, this does actually happen.

Today I've just given him the third, the Rotodate44 Mustang with the cannon pinion problem (and I hope that's all that's wrong with it), so I await with considerable trepidation. He also handed me back my old Rockshell MK V because of the same problem - NO spares available.

That's four automatics altogether, and only two of these may be repairable. As he explained to me there is a merry-go-round of dealers and boot sales as each 'lucky' buyer discovers they've really just bought lemons, and so they get passed from one mug to another by dishonest dealers.

So far I've spent 'only' Â£77 on the three, and my repairer has quoted me a very reasonable Â£50 for repairing the one which he thinks he may be able to obtain the parts for. So, at best one is a total write-off, at worst all three (unless I find someone to make the parts from scratch, but that sounds horribly expensive?).

I'll be curious to know how you get on finally..


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## Robbiec

I have a feeling that spares are available but just not on ebay or the usual spots. I'm popping over to Switzerland for a course in October and will be hunting high and low for old Roamer guys and hopefully a shop with an alladdins cave of MST spares , I'll pm ya if I find one.

I've been lucky so far though, the RotoPower 44 MST470 is a writeoff and I think the last 471 (the one with the strange hands and tan strap) is exhibiting the rough winding / setting action you describe. The other 471s are all smooth runners but do get cranky if not worn. Put them on and within 30 mins they are happy out and keeping good time. The Mustang is oblivious to being worn or not, it just works away. My wife has taken to wearing it now instead of the Popular , so i'm jumping between the Stingrays.


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## trim

Robbiec said:


> I have a feeling that spares are available but just not on ebay or the usual spots. I'm popping over to Switzerland for a course in October and will be hunting high and low for old Roamer guys and hopefully a shop with an alladdins cave of MST spares , I'll pm ya if I find one.
> 
> I've been lucky so far though, the RotoPower 44 MST470 is a writeoff and I think the last 471 (the one with the strange hands and tan strap) is exhibiting the rough winding / setting action you describe. The other 471s are all smooth runners but do get cranky if not worn. Put them on and within 30 mins they are happy out and keeping good time. The Mustang is oblivious to being worn or not, it just works away. My wife has taken to wearing it now instead of the Popular , so i'm jumping between the Stingrays.


CousinsUK still has many spares.

Personally I am staggered to hear of such problems, none of mine are fragile or temperamental in any way - and I've bought some real old nails. I've had no cannon pinion problems, and the winding issue is common when unserviced over a long time, but easily sorted out during a normal service. I will have to look closely, but I don't see why the cannon pinion can't be nipped up as usual, but will double check the design and technical documents. The only thing that seems hard to source is the inner stem, and I've managed to find those with a little patience.

Perhaps finding a different watchmaker might be the best choice?

Why is the 470 a write off? I am interested in a spare dial. For some reason I can't access profiles or send PMs, but I will be happy to consider any lemons rather than have them scrapped. You can contact me through my site.

My collection is here.


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## Roamer Man

Robbiec said:


> I have a feeling that spares are available but just not on ebay or the usual spots. I'm popping over to Switzerland for a course in October and will be hunting high and low for old Roamer guys and hopefully a shop with an alladdins cave of MST spares..


I don't think you'll find any MST 'Alladin's cave' in Switzerland or anywhere else, sadly. We are not just talking Roamer here either. My watch repairer deals directly with Graham Greeve in London who knows all the 'caves' and makes regular trips to Switzerland to hunt down spares. If he can't get them, then no one can. Omega spares are also non-existent in most pre-ETA cases.

So, save yourself the hassle, people who've been in the industry a long time have have already beaten you to it, probably.

The other thing is that not all 471s are the same. I'm told that short production runs and modifications made along the way mean that parts are not always interchangeable, thereby reducing the scope for canibalisation, particularly if the crown has been moved to the 4 o'clock position and there is a combination of day/dates.

So, the wise thing to do is not to wear vintage runners except occassionally. I don't want to wear mine out! I keep mine in as pristine a condition for as long as possible, for posterity. I usually wear one of the two new watches I have for everyday use, even though I'd prefer to wear a vintage. I dislike these new bling-sized monstrosities e.g. my new Roamer weighs in at a colossal 150gms, and seems like I'm wearing a dinner plate on my wrist. Sure, it's a beautiful watch, keeping unbelievably good time but I hate wearing it!

I may take to wearing my recently-acquired diminutive 3/4 Brevete manual cheapo. My repairer just finished fixing the winder etc. (luckily he already had a spare MST cover plate in stock). So he gave it the full works and now it's running like a dream.

Good luck with your endeavours..


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## Roamer Man

Roamer Man said:


> Robbiec said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a feeling that spares are available..
> 
> 
> 
> I may take to wearing my recently-acquired diminutive 3/4 Brevete manual cheapo...
Click to expand...

Disregard last message, the postman's just been with my latest acquisition! I just emailed Trim about it, so I may as well just paste it in here for all to see..

I've spent a few hours searching the Cousins site for a random selection of common parts for various MSTs, without much success. It's nice to have the downloads though.

I'm not quite ready to write anything off myself, and if I have to eventually, they will get relegated to my 'movements museum'. I live in hope that will not be neccessary.

I was delighted this morning to receive my latest eBay 'chancer'. Its a plated small hand 401, with a guilloched dial. I've already got a brace of these small hand models (with the 352 and 401), which I bought for purely the movement museum because the cases and dials were totally shot (hence the 99p price tag). The dials are the killer. The cheapest dial restoration I know of works out to between Â£90-Â£120 (Chris Heal's in sussex), but it's no good if the cases are shot too.

This one however, is in beautiful condition, in all respects, complete with 'Genuine Lizard' strap. The decription mentioned heavy wear on the plating, but quite honestly you can only see it with a loupe! The best thing is the dial, it's in unbelievable condition, and so beautiful to gaze upon under the loupe. Mechanically, it's smooth and free winding/setting, with just a little side play in the stem.

I feel well pleased, after my disappointment with the autos, so I shall keep a special look out for any further items from this very honest, and therefore, extremely rare kind of dealer! The amazing thing is with this bloke is that it was so cheap - BIN price Â£28+ p/p! Obviously I snapped it up (and not ask silly questions) because he'd only minutes before listed it, and it was about midnight when most people are tucked up in bed, oh lucky me...

My only gripe is that the hands plating is not perfect, but I think I'll let that one pass!

Picture to follow soon, but you see it's not all pain for Roamer collectors after all..


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## trim

Roamer Man said:


> The other thing is that not all 471s are the same. I'm told that short production runs and modifications made along the way mean that parts are not always interchangeable, thereby reducing the scope for canibalisation, particularly if the crown has been moved to the 4 o'clock position and there is a combination of day/dates.


I still think you need to look at using a different watchmaker.

There was never a 470/1 with day-date. All parts are interchangeable properly as you would expect from any modern movement - the only difference being the rotor bearing between the early 436 and later ones. The crown position did not change the movement at all, the only differences were in the position of the dial feet (on the dial) and the crown and stem.

Whoever told you the above that I quoted is simply wrong. Perhaps the person is confusing some of the day-date eta movements with the real MST movements.

If you go to cousins and type in the search box:

'MST 436' you get 31 parts in stock.

'MST 470' you get 35 parts in stock.

'MST 471' or 'MST 437' you get parts mostly to do with the calendar mechanism - but some other wrong hits as well.

For example, the cannon pinion is in stock for the 470 and 437 (the difference being the length). The cannon pinion for the movement for the 436/470 is the 5225 and for the 437/471 is the 5226.


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## Robbiec

trim said:


> Why is the 470 a write off? I am interested in a spare dial. For some reason I can't access profiles or send PMs, but I will be happy to consider any lemons rather than have them scrapped. You can contact me through my site.
> 
> My collection is here.


Sent you a mail


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## Robbiec

Roamer Man said:


> Roamer Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robbiec said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a feeling that spares are available..
> 
> 
> 
> I may take to wearing my recently-acquired diminutive 3/4 Brevete manual cheapo...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Disregard last message, the postman's just been with my latest acquisition! I just emailed Trim about it, so I may as well just paste it in here for all to see..
> 
> I've spent a few hours searching the Cousins site for a random selection of common parts for various MSTs, without much success. It's nice to have the downloads though.
> 
> I'm not quite ready to write anything off myself, and if I have to eventually, they will get relegated to my 'movements museum'. I live in hope that will not be neccessary.
> 
> I was delighted this morning to receive my latest eBay 'chancer'. Its a plated small hand 401, with a guilloched dial. I've already got a brace of these small hand models (with the 352 and 401), which I bought for purely the movement museum because the cases and dials were totally shot (hence the 99p price tag). The dials are the killer. The cheapest dial restoration I know of works out to between Â£90-Â£120 (Chris Heal's in sussex), but it's no good if the cases are shot too.
> 
> This one however, is in beautiful condition, in all respects, complete with 'Genuine Lizard' strap. The decription mentioned heavy wear on the plating, but quite honestly you can only see it with a loupe! The best thing is the dial, it's in unbelievable condition, and so beautiful to gaze upon under the loupe. Mechanically, it's smooth and free winding/setting, with just a little side play in the stem.
> 
> I feel well pleased, after my disappointment with the autos, so I shall keep a special look out for any further items from this very honest, and therefore, extremely rare kind of dealer! The amazing thing is with this bloke is that it was so cheap - BIN price Â£28+ p/p! Obviously I snapped it up (and not ask silly questions) because he'd only minutes before listed it, and it was about midnight when most people are tucked up in bed, oh lucky me...
> 
> My only gripe is that the hands plating is not perfect, but I think I'll let that one pass!
> 
> Picture to follow soon, but you see it's not all pain for Roamer collectors after all..
Click to expand...

Good one. Always nice to get a stroke of luck. Agree with the obsevation about the non autos though, my popular and 2 414s just work plain and simple.


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## Robbiec

Latest arrival 

Roamer Mustang Roto44Date, MST471 - Circa 1968-72, needs a new crystal and crown. Time keeping near enough perfect according to my pc since 10:15 this morning!


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## Roamer Man

That's an exactly similar one to the gold-plated version I've just handed to my repairer - to look at the cannon problem. I've got my fingers well crossed this time..


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## Robbiec

Ah, I saw that one, for some reason I did not bid on it too hard. There was another going for spares / repair, did you get that as well?


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## Roamer Man

Robbiec said:


> Ah, I saw that one, for some reason I did not bid on it too hard. There was another going for spares / repair, did you get that as well?


Not sure if it's the one you mean, but it was in a job lot of four 'broken' ones. Obviously I was only after after the Rotopower44, which as it turned out was the only broken one of the four! I thought it was too good to be true at the time. So, I think I might have been suckered into to it by a very crafty operator.

This is it


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## Roamer Man

Roamer Man said:


> Robbiec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, I saw that one, for some reason I did not bid on it too hard. There was another going for spares / repair, did you get that as well?
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if it's the one you mean, but it was in a job lot of four 'broken' ones. Obviously I was only after after the Rotopower44..
> 
> This is it
Click to expand...

This one actually has the 436 movement...Sorry, my mistake.


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## Robbiec

Roamer Man said:


> Roamer Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Robbiec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, I saw that one, for some reason I did not bid on it too hard. There was another going for spares / repair, did you get that as well?
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if it's the one you mean, but it was in a job lot of four 'broken' ones. Obviously I was only after after the Rotopower44..
> 
> This is it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This one actually has the 436 movement...Sorry, my mistake.
Click to expand...

Even better, the MST436s are rarer than the seemingly ubiqitous MST470s , I do like the baton style on your model, the hand design looks nicer than my ones as well. Must look harder for one of these


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## Ian3004

Hi guys new to watch collecting and interested in starting collection of Roamer watches as prices within my limited budget .Enjoyed this thread and found it very informative.Would like to find more about Roamer watches and looking for any links to help me" ie" movements service diagrams and the like.Would be greatfull if you guys can help.cheers ian3004


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## Roamer Man

Ian3004 said:


> ..Would like to find more about Roamer watches and looking for any links to help me" ie" movements service diagrams and the like.Would be greatfull if you guys can help.cheers ian3004


The richest source of info is www.roamer-watches.info. Some of the links don't seem to work with my browsers unfortunately, but a mine of info nevertheless. There is a link also to a site for earlier MST makes.


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## Ian3004

Thanks for the info Roamer Man will check it cheers


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