# Formula 1 (the Infamous F1 Thread)



## pg tips

Boring start to another boring season?

Discuss....


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## Mrcrowley

Usually is boring, but it was first one in ages i've watched all the way through


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## jasonm

Ok Pg .......If by boring you mean a Ferrari domination then maybe....BUT what seems to be overlooked is that they happen to be doing their job better than anyone else at the moment... everyone says how do we slow down Ferrari to make the show better, I say the others need to catch up! F1 goes around in cycles...late 80s it was Mclaren for a few years then Williams early 90s then williams then Mclaren ( Benetton got a couple too ) when Mansell and Hill won in 'their' seasons nobody complained, The fact is Ferrari have the whole package esp the awsome driver in Schumacher, hes not popular but he is fantastic at his sport, I have a little inside track as my best mate is a NO 1 mech at Minardi and he says Shuie is very well liked and respected by his team with no 'diva' tantrums unlike is Brother who the Williams boys say is a jerk.. When Michael won his 1st championship with Ferrari he bought EVERYONE in the team and factory right down to the cleaners a Tag F1 watch as a thank you...

As for the racing it is the restrictions that spoil the sport, tyres with gooves , engine limits, bargeboard sizes, etc etc, IMO the golden age was mid too late eighties with turbos huge sticky ' 1 lap ' qualifiying tyres massive wings . I thought the whole essence of F1 is technical innovation, that has been lost to some extent, I say build the fastest car you can and race it!!









( can you tell F1 is my thing?

Look forward to your views

Jason M


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## Sweet dial

I use to love F1 but now - like many find it boring - but then again our 4 year old has discovered it and seems to love it











> he bought EVERYONE in the team and factory right down to the cleaners a Tag F1 watch as a thank you...


Is he not advertising for them- got a price on them if not free


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## jasonm

> Is he not advertising for them- got a price on them if not free


I think hes an Omega man, I may have got the brand wrong but I doubt he got over 300 high end watches free......It didnt make the papers so it wasnt a publicity stunt, aparently hes a genuine nice guy..

Jason M


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## Sweet dial

I am sure he is a nice guy though trying to run others off the track isn't that nice









Now he has zillions in the bank so I am not really sure this was such a sacrifice and you MUST get a discount for those quantities.... but it is the gesture that counts


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## pg tips

Thought you might bite first Jason. I used to be a huge fan of F1 even went to Silverstone but I'm just so bored with it now. It's not the ferrari domination. I think Michael is possibly the best there has ever been, even better than mansell









It just doesn't grip me as it did. All seems to be won by the mechanics now. Is it a drivers championship? It could be argued if you put any of the top 12 drivers in Michaels car they would get the same results.

It's just one big blast off at the start then procession laps interspersed with pit stops.

You don't see the racing or overtaking like you used to. You end up praying for a mechanical fault for excitement. A friend of mine is a big DC fan, her dad likes Jordan (the team not the plastic enhanced woman). He counted how many times DC actually overtook someone last season in racing conditions ie not lapping a backmarker. I think it was something like 10 times in the whole season, all the other gains and losses were made in the pits.

Maybee I have a rose tinted view of the late 70's early 80's seasons, to be honest 20 years has passed and my memory is buggered!

btw on Michaels salary he could have bought them all a ferrari each!


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## jasonm

> I am sure he is a nice guy though trying to run others off the track isn't that nice


Ah yes that must be the infamous Hill at Adelaide '95 episode.....maybe it was an error in judgement but last race / championship at stake, I dunno...its easy to judge from the armchair but I bet its different in the car, Senna has been praised as one of the greats ( rightly so IMO ) but he was a tough racer, holding off Mansell in Monaco 94, he also admitted taking off Prost at Suzuka 1990 deliberatly...F1 is and should be a tough sport...


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## jasonm

> It's just one big blast off at the start then procession laps interspersed with pit stops.


Your right, it isnt like it was, its almost a tyre championship now







worst thing they did was stop slicks, Rubens wasnt competative on Sunday cos he chose his tyre compound on Friday that he had to race with on Sunday!! wheres the sport in that???

I do think its lost its way big time but im still compelled to watch it....

Oh well at least weve a couple of new tracks this season!

Jason M

P.S Fantastic to see Jenson on the podium,


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## FrankC

I'd BAN All Sport Off TV

They are just a load of over payed especially the footballers

Grumpy old man !


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## Roger

I have been a F1 fan for many more years than I care to remember. I was, and still am, a great fan of Jackie Stewart. I loved the turbo days............

These day, I really dont care too much who wins as long as it isnt Ferrari, a team I have despised for years for many reasons which I had not better go into. Anyone who remembers the 80s will well remember the antics and shenanegans of this team. Rubens is a good driver who deserves respect, schumacher senior is not as good as some people would have us believe, yes I know he has world championships, but he is very vulnerable under pressure and does not seem to relish head-to-head racing. When he transgresses, he seems to get lenient treatment, probably due to the " hero worship" of a certain organisation leader of small stature and great wealth ( ask tony blair!).

The season will improve especially when they get back to sane qualifying.


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## jasonm

Unless its the image of Ferrari as a company you have issues with, the race team is almost certainly nothing like and cant be compaired to the race team of 15 years ago, I doubt if there is anyone left from those days.

I dissagree about Michael he is simply the best driver out there..









Jason M


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## Roger

> I dissagree about Michael he is simply the best driver out there


He is certainly the luckiest


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## jasonm

> He is certainly the luckiest


The more he drives the luckier he gets









after almost 200 races hes won 74 of them.......


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## Griff

Roger said:


> I have been a F1 fan for many more years than I care to remember. I was, and still am, a great fan of Jackie Stewart. I loved the turbo days............
> 
> These day, I really dont care too much who wins as long as it isnt Ferrari, a team I have despised for years for many reasons which I had not better go into. Anyone who remembers the 80s will well remember the antics and shenanegans of this team. Rubens is a good driver who deserves respect, schumacher senior is not as good as some people would have us believe, yes I know he has world championships, but he is very vulnerable under pressure and does not seem to relish head-to-head racing. When he transgresses, he seems to get lenient treatment, probably due to the " hero worship" of a certain organisation leader of small stature and great wealth ( ask tony blair!).
> 
> The season will improve especially when they get back to sane qualifying.


Agree 100%.

Liked Mansell a lot. Won F1, went to the States, and won the Indy 1st time out...........freaking awesome. Hunt was great too.......never forget the championship was down to the last race in the wet in Japan. He gambled boldly with his tyres and romped it...............bloody superb!!!

Can't stand Schumacher..........


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## MarkF

God it's boring......zzzzzzzzzzzzzz









Jason is obviously a knowledgable fan but the sport needs more floaters like me, who watch most sport but have decided to give F1 a miss and do something more interesting like removing woodchip







I'd like to know the TV viewing figures for over the past ten years!

All the things new rules and regulations that Jason mentions boil down to one thing, less human risk. It is a motor race is it not? Then removal of risk removes all appeal for me. At the moment the wheel changes are more interesting than the race.


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## namaste

I have only been to a F1 GP once, in the arly 80's. The sport has changed so much over the past 10 years, it's only down to money, sponsors, and more money. I stopped watching when they decided it was OK for people to crash into their opponents to win the championship.

Gone are the days of the Tyrell P34 or Lotus 86 and 88... I'd rather watch replays of GP's from the 60's and 70's and even 80's than today's sponsor circus fuelled by media exposure...


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## chrisb

I say "Bring Back Jacky Ickx" the original "rainmaster"


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## namaste

Anytime Chris!


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## jasonm

> I'd rather watch replays of GP's from the 60's and 70's and even 80's [/quote
> 
> I holehartedly agree with you, To me that was the 'golden age' too propper wheel to wheel stuff, there was pleanty of banging into each other then its just the cars could take it better, but I bet that in the 60's 70's 80's there were people saying 'its not like it was in the 30's 40's 50's..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , the fact is you can say the same for a lot of things, music for example, we all prefer to remember things as they were at certain times in our lives, Its almost unfair to compare the eras as they are so completly different..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jason M


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## namaste

Couldn't agree more with you on the "good ol' times" thing, Jason! It's just that I used to enjoy it at the time, now it just gets on my nerves... Money/the commercial aspect of sport has had the same effect on many other sports. Sportsmen/women earn salaries pushed up by income generated by the media, which increases the stakes and incites people to invest more money into it. In the end it's only about lots of people wanting to make money out of anything that sells.

Boat race coming up this week-end, now that's real sport: no professionals, although maybe now that Sky has won the rights to show the race the students will want their share!


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## jasonm

> students will want their share!


Pot Noodles all round!!!!


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## chrisb

Even the Boats are crewed by "professional" Students, imported purely for their rowing prowess


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## jasonm

> say "Bring Back Jacky Ickx" the original "rainmaster


Have you seen the Jacky Ickx bullheads Roys got.....









Jason M


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## namaste

YOu've got a point there Chris. It's a bit like College Football in the States. As long as it's not for the money (not sure that's the case in the US), I can live with the fact that the rowers come from all over the world, it's a bit of folklore. And it does a lot for the quality of the race, otherwise University rowing is not always up there with the top...


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## iloper

Ferrari by less than 30s and With Barrichello in 4Âº i think F1 is back to the competitive days.big disapointment with Jaguar,don't think Klein is a Good driver and Webber Awfull.Renault isn't a contestant for the title.Maclaren is improving and My favourite Sauber in top-10

isn't this competitive?is this Borind?!!!


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## jasonm

> Webber Awfull


Sorry to disagree (again! ) but I recon hes a great driver, hes very commited and has done wonders for the team and gets the most out of a mediocre car...I was lucky enough to spend some time with him when he was at Minardi and he is a very nice bloke too! I wil have to try to take photos of my F1 bits and bobs...Ive got a nose cone from a 022 Tyrell ( battered and broken from a crash! ) signed visor from Verstappen and Wilson at Silverstone 2003 (Wilsons last G.P. at Minardi) Sprk plug , Piston from Cosworth v10, Fantastic red B.A.R Magnesium alloy wheel (light as a feather!) small carbon fiber 'winglet' from B.A.R.

What with F1 and watches the 710 thinks im a bit sad.....Bollox I say
















Jason M


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## iloper

i didn't meant Webber is an awfull driver.i like him very much...

i even think he is the next big thing.it's just very disapointing to see a driver that you like in the front and then in 14Âº place....

and the R5 is much better than the R4. they have a great car in potential.i

just think Klein is not the best driver to develop it.just wanted Monteiro,Lamy,Couto or Barbosa in there.can you do something about that....


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## jasonm

Sorry to have missunderstood

























> can you do something about that....Â





















> Klein is not the best driver to develop


Kleins money might develop it !!

I wish!!! To be honest I think Minardi is seriously in trouble soon...Stoddart is living race to race, and I doubt if he will last much longer ...hope Im wrong....

Jason M


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## iloper

and with Baumgartner and Bruni.........









i don't think he will go far...

he has Monteiro as 2Âº test driver when he is the only good driver they have....


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## jasonm

Money talks im afraid....









Jason M


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## iloper

like Klein in an Big team.Red Bull Pays

when did it get out of hand?

Bernie wants to get more teams to the F1.

For what?to have the rich people in the F1 thonking that they are drivers.

Baumgartner will never be a driver.Schumacher almost ruined his victory in Australia when he gave him a lap...he didn't gave Schumacher a good space

to do it...


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## rhaythorne

I love F1 and personally will never tire of seeing Ferrari formation finishes









You may have seen in another thread that I'm off to Bahrain next week for the Grand Prix there. I'm not a superstitious person, but I can't help remembering that the last time I went to a Grand Prix (Silverstone '99) was when Schumacher broke his leg. Can lightning strike in the same place twice? Hope not


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## iloper

i hope not.....


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## jasonm

> I love F1 and personally will never tire of seeing Ferrari formation finishes
> 
> You may have seen in another thread that I'm off to Bahrain next week for the Grand Prix there. I'm not a superstitious person, but I can't help remembering that the last time I went to a Grand Prix (Silverstone '99) was when Schumacher broke his leg. Can lightning strike in the same place twice? Hope not


MY MAN









I was also there in '99....He will be fine!!!! You lucky sod....New circuits are always interesting...its gonna be scorchio hot...









Hope you have a great time....hope its not a michelin circuit....

Jason M

PS tell us all about it on your return


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## iloper

good idea


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## JoT

I admire the engineering and technology but find modern F1 a dreary sporting spectacle. The only interesting part is the start


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## iloper

not if you like a certain team


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## rhaythorne

Hello chaps, just got in from Bahrain this morning.

What a fantastic race! From our grandstand (The Oasis Complex) you could see an unbroken view of the cars for almost a full 40 seconds per lap. I don't know of any other circuit where you get to see the cars for that long. Lots of overtaking, especially from the hard-charging Alonso, and a great result: A Ferrari one-two of course and great to see Button get his second consecutive podium finish









Of course, it was bloody hot out there in the desert, but the unexpected rain and slight sandstorms on race day were a welcome relief.

A few selected pics of things you may not have seen on the TV to give you an idea of the view:

The circuit has two pit lanes. Our grandstand overlooked the secondary pit lane where the Thoroughbred Grand Prix cars were being prepared:










The F1 Drivers Parade (Da Matta, Alonso, Trulli, Panis). I wont bore you with all the others! The car is from one of the Al Khalifa Shaikh's private collection.










Pit babes







Well, p'raps not, but a rather splendid marching band nonetheless:










And, best of all, where I love to see McLaren finish the race...










... on the back of a truck









There's a short video (mpeg) HERE of the opening lap showing the section of track directly in front of our seats to give you a feel of how close you are to the action at this circuit. It's 11.3MB though so you may not want to click on this if you're using a modem.

From a watch point-of-view, the most interesting one I saw was by Van der Bauwede. Called the Chronorace, it's a limited edition of 300 pieces commemorating the first Bahrain Grand Prix. I saw a couple of them in one of Manama's (Bahrain's capital) more expensive outlets and the price was truly astronomical.









Anyway, off to bed for some well-earned shut eye now.


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## jasonm

Well done Rhaythorne u lucky bugger!! My Minardi mate got back Monday night...said it was a great circuit and facilities..Im just about to look at your vid...nice photos BTW!!!!
















Jason


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## rhaythorne

Cheers Jason. I didn't see any of the Minardi guys but I was staying in the same hotel as a lot of the Ferrari and Renault team. They were all gone by Monday! A few FIA people were there too.

May well see you at Silverstone. Look out for me, I'll be the one wearing red


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## JoT

I have never been to a F1 Grand Prix .. lost interest after Lotus JPS went .... wasn't that the coolest livery ever?

I would like to go ... but the traffic and hassle at Silverstone has always put me off ..... what would be the best one to go to to avoid crowds ....


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## rhaythorne

In your case John I'd suggest taking a look at the Thoroughbred Grand Prix championship.

I've seen them a few times now and they're always excellent fun. The cars are all the ones you know and love from yesteryear (including two or three JPS Lotus variants and that crazy looking 6-wheeled Tyrrell) but now powered by moderm Cosworth engines. I saw Race 1 in Bahrain last week which was a pleasant surprise as I didn't know they were there. They're racing at Donnington in the UK this year May 2nd.-3rd.

To avoid crowds at a modern F1 race I'd say the best circuits would be Bahrain, Malaysia or maybe Shanghai as they're new and so all the surrounding infrastructure is bang up to date. For Bahrain I obtained a special "F1 Visa" (which is free of charge and better than a normal Visa). We got a free upgrade to our hotel and a fast-track through immigration at the airport. Departure tax was also waived. They've built huge highways that take you from the city centre straight to the circuit. You can be in and out in 20 or 30 minutes!


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## ericp

I went to Malaysia last year and had a similar experience, the whole time from touch down to departure ran like a dream. A remarkable place. I was gobsmacked to discover a Man Utd. Shop in the middle of down town KL...Bizzare !!!

The temperature and humidity were extreme, but tolerable.

I make no secret of the fact that I am a Ferrari fan, even so I would have to deny that the start of the season has been boring....

We have seen lots of overtaking in the mid field (Mclaren and Jaguar had a fantastic battle recently), we have seen the resurgence of a couple of teams, and we have seen some first class driving from MS.

I speak from experience when I say that MS is a top chap, I took a couple of children (not mine) to an F1 Test at Silverstone in my 365 a couple of years ago. It was a charity arranged visit for sick children, there were no cameras and no television , however his warmth and affection for the children was entirley genuine. When we left they were laden down with goodies, and I had even more admiration for a truly remarkable man.

As far as the watches go I am missing one Schumacher Omega model from my collection, so if anyone has a Schumacher Speedmaster (the one with the Red band running round the dial) that they want to sell, let me know.

Cheers


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## rhaythorne

Cheers ericp. Nice to hear some good words about MS







I quite fancy doing the Malaysian GP next year; we'll see.

I've been contemplating getting a Schumacher "Red" Speedmaster (the red dialed, red strapped one) for a few years but never quite got around to buying one. I'm always on the lookout though, so if I should see the one you want (the 2000 edition?) I'll let you know.


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## ericp

The red dial issue comes up on ebay quite often...

its rare that they appear with the Tyre box and papers, but worth keeping your eyes open.

The box is fantastic.

They have not done one like it since, shame really...


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## Garry

I'm always glued to F1, the recent rule changes have improved things a bit.

I normally follow Montoya, I just like his style - very glad to see Button is doing ok though.


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## iloper

Ferrari Rule.

about Mclaren,i don't like them much,but the way they are finishing races is really

bad for the F1.

just hope BAR evolves their car.

Did you like the Moet in the podium?!









you are a lucky man...









GP now has nice watches with Ferrari Brand on it.

does someone has one?


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## rhaythorne

McLaren seemed like a fun team in the 80's/90's (i.e. when they were winning all the time) but since their downturn in fortunes Ron Dennis seems to have turned into a right grumpy old git! I think he should stop complaining and get on with it.

It's great that BAR and Renault are now doing so well. There are now 4 or 5 "big" teams rather than the usual 2 or 3 we've had for the last couple of decades.

Haven't seen the GP watches. But I have been speaking to a jeweller in Bahrain about those Van Der Bauwede Ltd. edition, commemorative chronographs. The price has now fallen, although they're still outrageously expensive for what is basically an ETA quartz. Think I'm gonna have to get one though. No doubt those thieving b******s in Customs will want their cut though


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## iloper

i don't understand...

why a quartz?

IMO the GP Ferrari Edition watches look great and are expensive but they have

limited editions too..

it's your choice...










PS:I love Jaguar too


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## rhaythorne

Strangely enough, last Thursday's Daily Telegraph newspaper contained a special supplement about watches (worth getting hold of for anyone who missed it) and there was a large colour advertisement for the GP F2003-GA watch. A very splendid looking timepiece but costs _waayyy_ more than I could ever contemplate spending on a watch







The cheapest version is over Â£6300 according to one source I looked at!

I would guess that Van Der Bauwede (VDB) chose a quartz for their limited edition watch in order to keep the price down (ha! well, relatively speaking) so that they can sell them more quickly. Remember, these watches are commemorative of a single sporting event so probably have a less broad appeal than the GP watches which are associated with a famous car manufacturer and a particular racing car that took Schumacher to his sixth and record-breaking World Championship. Thus GP might still have a market for that watch for a number of years, whereas the VDB's might only be in demand for a few short months, if that. Only two weeks after the event and the jeweller in Bahrain is already knocking the price down without even asking.

Although I prefer mechanical watches, I've no objection to quartz and the standard mechanical (Valjoux 7750) version of the watch on which the VDB is based is more than twice the price! So quartz it is









Did you see the prototype Jaguar Racing watch that Eddie featured on his forum? I think I was the only one who quite liked it!


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## rhaythorne

Well, this arrived from Bahrain this morning: VDB Chronorace 1 No. 183/300










One of my usual crappy close-up photos but you get the idea. Very OTT but for a watch-loving F1 fan I just couldn't resist it









Fabulous box too. Probably materially worth more than the watch


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## iloper

rhaythorne said:


> Well, this arrived from Bahrain this morning: VDB Chronorace 1 No. 183/300
> 
> One of my usual crappy close-up photos but you get the idea. Very OTT but for a watch-loving F1 fan I just couldn't resist it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fabulous box too. Probably materially worth more than the watch












it's quite nice...

when you said that the quartz watch was expensive i thought GP prices...

can't you get a closer pic?


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## rhaythorne

Here you go, best I can do in the failing light:



















Unfortunately I caught the hands at the worst possible moment! There are seven hands. Hours and minutes obviously. The top left subdial is chronograph hours, top right subdial is chronograph 1/10ths. of a second, bottom subdial is seconds. There's a red sweep second hand for chronograph seconds, and behind that there's a white sweep hand for chronograph minutes.

It has a 27-jewel ETA 251.262 quartz movement which has a few clever features for various time-setting and chronograph functions (well, compared to my other quartz watches anyway). Much easier to do with a quartz than a mechanical of course


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## AlexR

I like that very much


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## iloper

good buy!

Schumi wins again!

BAR is doing well...


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## iloper




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## rhaythorne

Yes, I quite enjoyed the race. Especially as I had a bet on Alonso to finish ahead of Barrichello


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## jasonm

My mate richie was one of the 2 Minardi bods having the 'interview' with Louise Goodman ( he was the one on the left) 2 hr interview edited down to 20 secs....probably cause Jensons Pole (







) discussions ate into time available









Jason


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## iloper

rhaythorne said:


> Yes, I quite enjoyed the race. Especially as I had a bet on Alonso to finish ahead of Barrichello


 why?!


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## rhaythorne

Just a bit of fun with a mate of mine.

We have a bet on every race, Â£5 each time - one driver to finish ahead of another. You can pick whatever driver you like, but only _once_ per season:

Australia - Button vs. Webber

Malaysia - Webber vs. Button

Bahrain - Sato vs. M. Schumacher

San Marino - Barrichello vs. Alonso

I'm 3 up so far this season


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## iloper

rhaythorne said:


> Just a bit of fun with a mate of mine.
> 
> We have a bet on every race, Â£5 each time - one driver to finish ahead of another. You can pick whatever driver you like, but only _once_ per season:
> 
> Australia - Button vs. Webber
> 
> Malaysia - Webber vs. Button
> 
> Bahrain - Sato vs. M. Schumacher
> 
> San Marino - Barrichello vs. Alonso
> 
> I'm 3 up so far this season


 not bad!


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## pg tips

I'd just bet on anyone to beat Coulthard!


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## iloper

pg tips said:


> I'd just bet on anyone to beat Coulthard!








































best f1 joke so far...


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## rhaythorne

From Daily Telegraph Motoring, May 1, 2004:



> TAG UNVEILS V4 TIMEPIECE...
> 
> Official F1 timer TAG Heuer last week unveiled what is possibly the most radical innovation in mechanical horology since the invention of the chronograph in 1822 - a belt-driven movement inspired by the layout of a V4 car engine...
> 
> ...TAG has taken the fundemental dymamics of a car engine - transmission, friction, torque and power - and minituarised it into a movement that substitutes the drivetrain of a normal watch mechanism with a relay of 13 notched rubber drivebelts...
> 
> ...The four barrels the provide the energy to drive the watch resemble automative cooling fans. One is mounted at each corner of the case to create the 15-degree Vee, in the middle of which is an oscillating weight that moves in a track - much as a piston moves in a cylinder- to operate the self-winding movement.


More info from TAG HERE

Lovely video HERE that might take a while to download for modem users.

Had to check the date to make sure it wasn't _April_ 1st.









Think I'll be giving this one a miss though


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## jasonm

Im sure that Tag have pulled out of F1 for timing purposes







it was on f1-itv a little while ago....My F1 mate Rich said they recently had to cover up or remove Tag stickers etc from monitors ....









Jason


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## iloper

hey jason.what do you think of Villeneuve back to Williams?!


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## rhaythorne

I'm amazed that Roy hasn't sold all his stock of these. I know Jacky Ickx was hardly the world's greatest F1 driver, but still!

However, I've just discovered something that ought to make any petrol-heads out there much more interested.

Jacky Ickx holds the World Record for the most ever number of Le Mans 24 Hour wins: Six times - 1969, 1975-77 and 1981-82. And he became World Sports Car Champion in 1982 for good measure


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## jasonm

Raythorne, I know what u mean about the Ickx Bullheads, if there was a stainless / black dial combo i would have one by now.....This afternoons race looks like it should be good....Lets hope Jenson gets his first win









Jason


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## JoT

Monaco is the only one I usually bother watching ... all the others are a bit of a procession IMO


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## rhaythorne

A pretty much perfect podium for me: A Renault, Jenson Button and a Ferrari.

Am I right in thinking that's Renault's first _ever_ win as a team (as opposed to being an engine supplier)?

Button gets his best ever finish









And a Ferrari is on the podium too









Williams - obviously had a bad day at the office.

McLaren - excuses, excuses, _always_ excuses!

I missed the incident with Montoya and Schumacher. I was in the kitchen popping the cap off an Old Speckled Hen. Which is a reference to what I was drinking and not another "farming" joke


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## jasonm

I think Alonso got one last year....Hungary I think

What a race today!!!!

jason


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## gravedodger

yup ... a terrific race, Monaco is one of the very few races I watch from start to finish.

rumours that Sydney, Australia and London both want to host F1 racing .... now that would be a great shot in the arm for F1 ... 3 proper street races per year ... oh mama


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## jasonm

Street races are cery cool, I remember watching TVR racing in the streets of Birmingham way back when, super stuff....









Jason


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## JoT

Do you remember the Formula 3000 race in Birmingham city centre? Sometime in tyhe 1980's I think .... I thought it was great and I am not a huge racing car fan ... maybe all F1 should be on street circuits and leave the tracks to Indy/Cart.


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## gravedodger

ah yes ... street racing ... we have the NorthWest 200 over here and other street racing for the 2 wheeled F1







... very exciting stuff









NorthWest 200 is a bit like the Isle of Man TT but proper head-to-head street racing


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## rhaythorne

> Am I right in thinking that's Renault's first ever win as a team (as opposed to being an engine supplier)?


I'm talking rubbish of course







You're right Jason.

In fact, their first ever win as a team was July 1979, appropriately enough at the French GP:

1st. Jean-Pierre Jabouille (Renault RS-10)

2nd. Gilles Vileneuve (Ferrari 312T4)

3rd. Rene Arnoux (Renault RS-10)

Terrific race today, but I can't see London hosting an F1 race







Ken would probably make them all pay the Congestion Charge. Then they'd all get clamped on the grid! Probably have to pay Â£150 to get their cars back out of Parc Ferme aka "the pound" too!

I'd not heard of the North West 200; looks fun though. I see Duke Video do a DVD of the 2003 race. Might have to take a look at that


----------



## iloper

Great race!!

Stupid Alonso and Schumacher accidents...

i liked when Ralph was passing by after the crash and Alonso wanted to show him more than just a closed hand...

Button will get there and i think the gem in the Jaguars nose made the throttle command to go wrong in the 2 cars...









Williams and Mclaren are in trouble.

Mclaren has a new car in 4 weeks,but i think it's the car for the next season

and williams is changing the structure of the team,wich can cause some temporary

instability.

and i don't believe Montoya is going to mclaren after seing the macs results.

he's going to BAR...

IMO of course


----------



## iloper

FERRARI WORLD CHAMPION

Schumacher World Champion.

When will we have competiton in the F1?!?!









Mclaren is improving and Sauber did great in Spa.good 6th for klien...


----------



## JoT

I would rather watch paint drying .... more interesing ... F1 ... yawn


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## jasonm

Now now John...Each to there own....I could comment on the exciting history of South African Mining in the 19th Century as a anathsetic alternative....


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> Now now John...Each to there own....I could comment on the exciting history of South African Mining in the 19th Century as a anathsetic alternative....



















I know F1 is an amazing technical achievement ... but they really must make the races more interesting ... look at the USA Indy Car Series and its rival the Champ Car World Series far better entertainment ... as is World Superbikes, British Superbikes and Moto GP.

I dont think it will get any better until a rival company takes on Bernie Ecclestone's domination.


----------



## iloper

JoT said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now now John...Each to there own....I could comment on the exciting history of South African Mining in the 19th Century as a anathsetic alternative....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know F1 is an amazing technical achievement ... but they really must make the races more interesting ... look at the USA Indy Car Series and its rival the Champ Car World Series far better entertainment ... as is World Superbikes, British Superbikes and Moto GP.
> 
> I dont think it will get any better until a rival company takes on Bernie Ecclestone's domination.
Click to expand...

 it's not Ecclestone.it's the ferrari development that is much better than the other teams.seee mclaren,they now have a good car,but they started the year with a really bad one.its a matter of intelligence.not every car need to be revolutionary.that's why thr new mclaren is similar in the back to the ferrari...they tried to jump ahead and they made a bad car...MotoGP?!?!it's the same thing that the F1.and the american races still have manual shifting...


----------



## cujimmy

jasonm said:


> When Michael won his 1st championship with Ferrari he bought EVERYONE in the team and factory right down to the cleaners a Tag F1 watch as a thank you...


On the, admittedly rare, occasions when he loses everyone gets 2 TAGs


----------



## jasonm

You are quite right about it being not as exciting as it could be.....

As mentioned before it needs

Slicks again

Turbos

Active suspension

Manual gearboxes

Trouble is they would be so fast and cornering speeds so high that we would soon have fatalities...


----------



## pg tips

I feel that they must do away with pit stops, make them drive with a bloody big tank of fuel and only let them come in for body repairs or puntures. Get the tyre companies to develop a lasting compound rather than the max speed for 15 laps and then they are buggered.

No pit stops means the driver will have to overtake on the track not rely on tactics and mechanics to get him in front from the pits.


----------



## jasonm

Yep sounds good Paul.....Like you say tyres probably are the biggest single denominator for 'performance' at the moment so it has just become a tyre war...









What it needs is a single supplier, but that wont happen either


----------



## namaste

Formula one should be a lab for new technology. For years the focus has been on speed. The need today is for safe and fuel efficient cars.

I'd agree with Jason's idea's: make the cars faster so that they become more dangerous, and teams will have to come up with safety innovations.

And give them only half a tank of fuel 9 no pit stops!) so that we can all benefit from the millions invested in this industry!

To be honest I don't care. Make it interesting, anything but what we've been witnessing (or not out of boredom) the past few years...

Now back to my reading: "Fangio, A Pirelli Album"


----------



## jasonm

If the focus on reining in costs and speed in F1 continues, I recon in a couple of years F3000 will be doing the same lap times..







There not that far off now..


----------



## iloper

what's the diff in seconds by lap?


----------



## jasonm

Not sure Iloper....Ive had a quick look round but comparasons are hard as sometimes F3000 dont use the full Grand Prix circuits ( I think??)

Jason


----------



## iloper

jasonm said:


> Not sure Iloper....Ive had a quick look round but comparasons are hard as sometimes F3000 dont use the full Grand Prix circuits ( I think??)
> 
> Jason


 i'm sorry 16 second diff in catalunia...


----------



## jasonm

Is that Shuies time? Assuming the Minardis have been 6-7 seconds slower than him 10secs is too close...When the engine restrictions get worse next year, revs will drop along with lap times, mind you, engineers always seem to find more speed in other areas...


----------



## iloper

i'm thinking about it,and is true.all that money they are spending only gives them 10 seconds advantage...in a race that a lot, but not as much as you could think of.

to stop F1 you'll need to change tyres and put more weight on the.the better idea is gas...


----------



## Nin

Do any of you guys pick up the C4 coverage of world rally championships?

I'm a fan cos I do a bit of bike rallying, so I know just how hard it is, but those guys tackle forest roads in the wet at 120 mph. The driving skill is outstanding, and really superb to watch (IMO).

The C4 coverage is good, but for some reason it's not as good as you get in Europe - presumably Brit media don't believe we're ready for it?

I used to be a big F1 fan, (and smoked JPS for a long time because of my loyalty!) but my interest began to wane when pit stops came in. Still, it must be pretty popular given the traffic jams around Silverstone this summer!

Nin


----------



## jasonm

Me and the lads used to go and watch the RAC rallys in the welsh mountains....Fantastic stuff, theres a photo of me somewhere pressed against a mud bank as a WRC flies passed me with about 6 inches to spare









Also I cracked the sump on my company 406 at the top of a Welsh mountain stage on the last day of the 2000 event







It took about 10 hrs to get relayed home...My boss was not happy....

Then there was the time at the Sweet Lamb stage ( its like a 'bowl' with spectators up each side) we and the spectators on the opposite side had a firework fight









Happy times.........


----------



## Nin

Ah, sweet lamb. I think it was the Hafren rally that started from there. Fond memories of stuffing my suzuki DRZ into the stream - trying to wheelie while holding a can of beer. Not clever. Older, wiser and a bit less flexible now.

Those WRC cars can really shift some dirt though. I rode a forest section before & after a WRC test session, all the corner cambers were totally different after. I certainly wouldn't fancy standing anywhere near them in full flow.

nin


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## jasonm

> standing anywhere near them in full flow


They spit huge rocks at you too!!


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## Nin

They must have pretty good mechanics - and a lot of spares


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## MarkF

Nin said:


> I used to be a big F1 fan, (and smoked JPS for a long time because of my loyalty!) but my interest began to wane when pit stops came in.


I didn't know pitstops hadn't always been in







They are incredibly boring and make a mockery of the race standings, I haven't a clue what's going on only that it is incredibly tedious.

Why can't they have tyres that last the race and enough fuel to get round? Then we would have a RACE! Suerly it's not an insurmountable problem after all I set off from London to Bradford this morning (200 miles) and made it all the way without a pitstop


----------



## Nin

The new rules for F1:

- drivers must smoke at lest 5 tabs in the race;

- drivers must pour themselves 2 cups of coffee from a stainless steel thermos and drink them, whilst driving & eating a cinnamon danish;

- drivers must text one of their mates about last night's footie;

- No more stop start penalties, instead drivers must have a waz into a lemonade bottle and chuck it into the central reservation.

Oh and Kwik fit tyres only.


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## jasonm

> - drivers must smoke at lest 5 tabs in the race;
> 
> - drivers must pour themselves 2 cups of coffee from a stainless steel thermos and drink them, whilst driving & eating a cinnamon danish;
> 
> - drivers must text one of their mates about last night's footie;
> 
> - No more stop start penalties, instead drivers must have a waz into a lemonade bottle and chuck it into the central reservation.
> 
> Oh and Kwik fit tyres only.


Thats me!!!!

Excellent.....


----------



## jasonm

> enough fuel to get round?


They used to do that...Fuel=weight so they try to calculate to the gram how much they should use.....There were loads of times cars used to run out on the last lap!!


----------



## iloper

jasonm said:


> enough fuel to get round?
> 
> 
> 
> They used to do that...Fuel=weight so they try to calculate to the gram how much they should use.....There were loads of times cars used to run out on the last lap!!
Click to expand...

 that's nice...


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## rhaythorne

> enough fuel to get round?


Yes, they _could_ carry enough fuel to get round, but the current regulations stipulate that they have to make at least one pit stop, so the current cars aren't designed that way.

In my view, the best way to make F1 more exciting for the average spectator is to change the circuits to enable greater overtaking opportunities. Most of the current circuits have changed relatively little over the years but the cars are now so good that they can stick to the one and only racing line like glue. Remember the "four wheel drift" of the cars from the 50's and 60's? You don't see that anymore. Changing the circuits (or introducing new ones like Bahrain and Shanghai) that are engineered to allow overtaking at multiple places and on multiple lines is the only way forward I think. That way you get great racing and F1 can still be at the pinnacle of motorsport technology (i.e. the regulations don't need to "hobble" the cars).

It's an expensive solution though


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## jasonm

Mechanical grip i.e Slicks instead of aerodynamic grip is the best way to encorage overtaking imo.


----------



## pg tips

make them all drive plastic pigs, that'll sort the men from the boys!


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## iloper

pg tips said:


> make them all drive plastic pigs, that'll sort the men from the boys!


----------



## pg tips

Sorry Iloper not sure if that translates!









A plastic pig is a british slang name for a Reliant Robin, a 3 wheeled fiberglass bodied nightmare from our past. Stan had one! You could drive them on a motorcycle licence so cheapness was a big factor in owning one!

Usually find them on ebay now days









http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...2489083122&rd=1


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## iloper

God...i get it now...









thanks


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## jasonm

Jacques Villeneuve is back!! Driving for Renault in the last 3 races then Sauber for nex year....


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## rhaythorne

Good news. He's a character!

Should do well assuming he doesn't fall out with his new masters









I presume Trulli wont be racing again this year then until he starts with Toyota next season???


----------



## pg tips

Is Button going to Williams then?


----------



## jasonm

The contracts commision meets in October I think to discuss the Button move....


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## JoT

Jaguar are pulling out of F1 as well and Cosworth are no longer going to subsidize engines to other F1 teams ....


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## iloper

Stupid americans...


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## rhaythorne

That's spooky, I ordered this a few minutes ago:










Comes out Monday









Sorry, very off-topic


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## iloper

rhaythorne said:


> That's spooky, I ordered this a few minutes ago:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comes out Monday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, very off-topic


 don't think it's off topic...


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## pg tips

Looks like the British GP has got the axe!









LOOK HERE


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## jasonm

Yep...Sad day indeed.......I can see GP's being forced out of Europe altogether due to tobacco advertising bans....Its funny how foreign Governments i.e Bahrain, China etc will sponser GP's cos of the local ecconomy boost but Labour wont give 3 Million to help keep British GP going yet pisses more than that on other crap...


----------



## raketakat

Isn't there a new competition starting where national teams of drivers compete in a standardised car







? Sounds more interesting than F1 IMVVHO







.


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## jasonm

Yeah its called F3000!









No I know what you mean but cant remember what its gonna be called









BTW I reckon Silverstone will get a reprive....Its Bernie playing hardball but I reckon somthing will happen...


----------



## MarkF

jasonm said:


> Yep...Sad day indeed.......I can see GP's being forced out of Europe altogether due to tobacco advertising bans....Its funny how foreign Governments i.e Bahrain, China etc will sponser GP's cos of the local ecconomy boost but Labour wont give 3 Million to help keep British GP going yet pisses more than that on other crap...










Yikes







Why the hell should the government give 3 million (from our taxes) to help a global multi squillion pound business







Bernie could give it out of a months salary!

What is the British GP now anyway? Just another corporate day out, a chance to talk yah yah and get pissed (on expenses) with the other company tosspots while the true race fan is fleeced with poor parking, poor vantage and shitty refreshments not to mention not so clean toilet facilities









Good riddance


----------



## rhaythorne

Agreed Jason.

BTW, the other racing series is called A1 Grand Prix. The brainchild of a Dubai Sheikh.


----------



## MarkF

rhaythorne said:


> Agreed Jason.
> 
> BTW, the other racing series is called A1 Grand Prix. The brainchild of a Dubai Sheikh.


 Never heard of it Rich but I just looked up some info and I quote

"The series will take place in the fall and winter when F1 is idle, probably with 25-30 teams running the same engines, chassis and tires. Each team will represent a country, with the driver required to be of the same nationality."

Sounds like there might be some "racing"







Maybe F1 will be permanently idle


----------



## rhaythorne

> Sounds like there might be some "racing"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe F1 will be permanently idle


Bloomin' cheek









I agree with what you said about the British GP though. I've only been once and although I enjoyed the event itself the facitlities and transport arrangements were utterly crap. I won the tickets at a charity quiz night in the pub. If I'd paid the extortionate face value for them I'd have been mortified.

Bahrain this year was fantastic from beginning to end. Might try Monza next year


----------



## Roger

I,ve been a Motor Racing fan for 3 decades now, but I must admit that I am rapidly becoming disillusioned with the whole F1 thing....

I cut my motor sport teeth on Rallying most particularly Road Rallying. I was very active a club level as a co-driver and eventually got my national licence and ended up being a stage commander for one stage in the 1984 and 1985 RAC Rally.

This is where the disillusionment started to set in.

Around that time the RAC MotorSport division decided, in their wisdom, that rallying was too dangerous....so now the restricions started...no more night stages...no more supercars, limits on the lighting carried by cars. We ended up much less exciting events competed by more-or-less shopping cars....no more 6R4, no more Lancia Stratos, no more TR8s......etc etc..

F1 seems to be going the same way....restrictions....tame the cars...tame the speeds and so on.

IMHO...F1 should be the absolute cutting edge with teams free to use whatever devices and software they can devise......Oh but its too dangerous...they cars are too fast........well so they should be...F1 cars should have performance way in excess of the drivers abilities.......otherwise we will end up with a glorified Renault 5 challenge cup...........

The new circuits may well have everything in terms of facilities, but dont they perhaps lack charisma.....my in-laws live just a few miles from the Spa circuit where I have spectated many times and which, for me is one of the finest circuits ever.....will Shanghai and Dubai ever attain that???

The soul and spirit of F1 is being erroded........perhaps we will soon see Gatsos scattered around the circuits? or maybe noise restriction?

First step to recovery? remove pit- to- car radio comms....let the drivers call the shots..lets see less pit lane tactics and more racing on the track.......

I love motor sport, I dont want it castrated......thank God for British and World superbikes, at least there we have some proper dicing...

Rant over....

Roger


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## Griff

I don't know about all of that, but the main point is the finishing of Silverstone.................what a bloody pathetic outcome for British racing, compared to other countries. I don't care how much the costs are, but the money should have been put in to make sure Silvertsone continued, AND became one of the best..........................bloody pathetic outcome!!!!!!


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## jasonm

> Why the hell should the government give 3 million (from our taxes) to help a global multi squillion pound business Bernie could give it out of a months salary!


Cos it brings so much more into the local ecconomy.....

Roger....1000% agree with you F1 should be about cutting edge technology....We will see no more innovation soon....

Oh yes....Audi Quattro SWB with 1400 BHP in the forests....Legend


----------



## Griff

jasonm said:


> Why the hell should the government give 3 million (from our taxes) to help a global multi squillion pound businessÂ Bernie could give it out of a months salary!
Click to expand...

 It will be bloody pathetic for the Government not to make sure the money is put in to save British racing. Other countries are making their circuits world class. I don't give a **** how much it costs...........the bloody money must be put in.

If it is the case that Ecclestone is asking too much money then he should be f***ing well stuffed!! In any case, the Government should step in and sort this bleeding pathetic shambles out!!!!!


----------



## pg tips

living just down the road I remember what it was like in the old days.

They've spent millions on the infrastructure etc and now there's no GP to put there.

Blair needs to kick Bernie where it hurts! But that won't happen 'cos the LP want Ecclestones donations!


----------



## rhaythorne

Roger said:



> The new circuits may well have everything in terms of facilities, but dont they perhaps lack charisma.....my in-laws live just a few miles from the Spa circuit where I have spectated many times and which, for me is one of the finest circuits ever.....will Shanghai and Dubai ever attain that???


I agree that the "old" circuits evoke fond memories of Grand Prix racing in its heyday and I would, of course, prefer to see a British GP on the calendar for next year, but frankly Silverstone had all the charisma of a landfill site when I was there (1999 I think) although perhaps it's vastly improved now. Brands Hatch, whilst being a great track, is not a lot better in that respect.

The modern circuits may not have the heritage of the traditional ones, but unfortunately heritage doesn't make for good motor racing nor a necessarily enjoyable experience for the fans.

The friend I went to Bahrain with this year also went to Spa (lucky sod!) and he enjoyed that tremendously.

My fondest motor racing memories are of the circuit at Crystal Palace but somehow I don't think F1 will ever go there


----------



## pg tips

I remember going to SS in the 70's wasn't a GP but was a race day, can't remember much about it except the toilets, or rather corugated steel shed with no roof !

The place is unrecognisable now, was by there a few months ago whilst working and didn't realise I'd gone past it til I got to the other end of the bypass, on the way back made sure I went through the village and had a "nose".


----------



## Griff

If we really want Button to become the next World Champion, then money must be put in place to make sure British F1 is amongst the best, and that means this f***ing Silverstone shambles gets f***ing well sorted out, and Ecclestone on the way if that proves necessary. It's time this country pulled it's bleeding socks up, pulled its finger out, and sort all the shiteheads out along the way that aren't fully working together for this aim!!!!!!


----------



## Griff

How I would deal with Mr. Ecclestone's intransigence...........


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## jasonm

> 1999 I think)


I was there then.....The year Shumi broke his leg?...I was watching it in Paul Stoddarts motorhome (before he bought Minardi)


----------



## JoT

Good ... F1 is crap ... let's kick Ecclestone into touch and get a real racing series organised.


----------



## rhaythorne

> I was there then.....The year Shumi broke his leg?...I was watching it in Paul Stoddarts motorhome (before he bought Minardi)


Yep, that was the year. Shame about Schumi, but had a good laugh when Hakkinen's wheel fell off









I was getting massive sunburn in the grandstand (with no cover) at the beginning of the Start/Finish straight just by Woodcote! I had to have the day off on Monday because I was so badly burned I couldn't put my trousers on


----------



## Roger

> but frankly Silverstone had all the charisma of a landfill site when I was there (1999 I think) although perhaps it's vastly improved now.


You may have missed the atmosphere of the place in the 1960s & 70s...that was something else...safety standards have improved ( there used to be marshalls stood on the edge of the tarmac !!!)

Its really the racing that counts, so maybe there are a few "ripples" in the surface and the facilities may be a bit tired, but one thing is for sure...British marshalls are the best in the world, without question IMHO.

Maybe we SHOULD get rid of the present governing structure and start afresh....

As an aside in the world of SuperBike Racing....just keep your eyes on tyhe Castle Combe circuit....it may well be on the up......

Roger


----------



## TimD

I think it has more to do with tobacco advertising than anything else. If poor track design and a lack of facilities were a problem then they should scrap Monaco too.

Cheers,

Tim.


----------



## rhaythorne

> If poor track design and a lack of facilities were a problem then they should scrap Monaco too.


I was going to mention that too







Modern Grand Prix cars are far too wide for Monaco.


----------



## jasonm

Modern F1 unfortunatly has very little to do with racing......Its all about the money










Its the fans that care about the racing and we dont seem to matter...

Politics and money............


----------



## pg tips

F1 may as well bypass all the driving and do it in virtual reality. The only way to win a GP now is to have a fast pit crew and a fantastic tactician sat in the pit lane. Drivers just steer them round til the next pit stop following the tacticians instructions, any monkey with a bit of training could do that!


----------



## rhaythorne

> any monkey with a bit of training could do that!


Where do I sign-up?


----------



## jasonm

Recent artical.

Bernie Ecclestone has not completely ruled out a scenario in which the British GP could find its way back onto the 2005 calendar â€" but believes it will be necessary for individuals to dig into their own pockets to make it happen.

Speaking to Radio 5 he said: â€œIn the end there was about Â£3million difference. We agreed with the Minister of Sport Richard Caborn who asked me: â€˜Bernie can't you help, do something about it?'. So we split the difference basically, so there was about Â£1.5million difference.

â€œI read that they said the Northampton area was going to lose Â£30million or Â£40million if this race went away. I thought they would just have said to the BRDC, â€˜You're short of Â£1.5million, we'll put that in because we're still Â£28m better off'.

â€œBut nobody's done any of those things, nobody wants to give anything, nobody wants to do anything. They expect us to do everything and we have, we have. We've met people halfway because that's what our sports minister asked us to do, and that's what we did."


----------



## Manatee

I haven't worked out what it is, but there must be something wrong with a sport when basically half the teams can't afford to be in it, it costs fans Â£200 to watch a race, and B. Ecclestone has ended up with Â£2,400,000,000 (allegedly).

John.


----------



## jasonm

If it is still a sport, then we can see whos won and the prize money aint bad is it...


----------



## Griff

Manatee said:


> I haven't worked out what it is, but there must be something wrong with a sport when basically half the teams can't afford to be in it, it costs fans Â£200 to watch a race, and B. Ecclestone has ended up with Â£2,400,000,000 (allegedly).
> 
> John.


 Then for me Ecclestone isn't the biggest asshole in the world, but he's in the top one!!!


----------



## MarkF

Anyone listen to the debate on Five this morning about F1?

They had some driver, Malcolm Bumble or something, bloody hell it was just like F1! It was excrutiatingly boring and went on for what seemed like days


----------



## Roger

I've already had my little rant, but I really feel that onboard radio of any sort. telemetry or voice, should be totally removed............when you have been around radio and data transmission as long as I have, I can tell you from monitoring during a race, that there is far, far more being sent pit-to-car, than just requests for data packets......I aint gonna say who.....just lets say most teams are using radio to change parameters ( I am not saying this is illegal cos I'm not sure). Combine this with the trend to dumbing-down the cars performance, we might as well just hook 'em all up tgo dynos and see who lasts longes/who produces the most power.

The lifeblood is being drained out of F1 racing.

Sorry, yet another rant

Roger


----------



## jasonm

> ( I am not saying this is illegal cos I'm not sure


Used to be legal, but hasnt been for a couple of years....Like you say though , bet it still goes on.....


----------



## jasonm

By the way....Silverstone is on the calender for next year...subject to certain conditions


----------



## jasonm

> F1â€™s Contracts Recognition Board has ruled that Jenson Button must stay at BAR in 2005.
> 
> Button had signed for Williams earlier this year after the Briton's management team found a loophole in his BAR contract that they believed enabled him to jump ship.
> 
> The CRB met in Milan last Saturday to hear the legal arguments from both teams.
> 
> After three days of deliberations the board ruled in favour of Button's current team and said the Briton had no right to sign for rivals Williams.
> 
> Williams have confirmed that they will not challenge the CRB's verdict.
> 
> Team boss Frank Williams said: "Naturally we are disappointed with the CRB's conclusion.
> 
> â€œWe took the view that Jenson was a driver worth challenging for, and based on strong legal advice, we have no regrets about making a bid for his services.
> 
> "The CRB accepted a significant number of the BMW WilliamsF1 Team's arguments, but nevertheless found against us. We do not believe any further legal action in relation to this matter to be in the broader interests of the sport.â€
> 
> Not surprisingly, BAR welcomed the decision.
> 
> A team statement read: â€œBAR has expressed delight at the confirmation today from the Contract Recognition Board that BARâ€™s contract with Jenson Button is the only valid contract for 2005.
> 
> â€œJenson has played a crucial role in B.A.R's success over the past two seasons, particularly this year when B.A.R is hopeful of finishing second in the 2004 constructors' championship.â€


I am shocked!!!! I know he is a proffesional but this must affect his motivation surley!!


----------



## Roger

> I know he is a proffesional but this must affect his motivation surley!!


I would reckon so...............especially if Honda follow their historical trend ( at least in the earlier days if M/Cycle GP ) fo getting very close to the top, then pulling the plug and withdrawing.....mebbe they dont do that these days?

Roger


----------



## jasonm

What a load of bollox











> The FIA have finally revealed the technical regulations they will impose on F1 teams next season.
> 
> The World Motor Sport Council had offered F1 outfits three different packages of reforms â€" but the 10 teams could not agree on any of them by the necessary 8-2 majority.
> 
> That opened the way for the council to decide for itself which of the three packages to impose. They opted for the second set of proposals, which gives equal weight to aerodynamic and engine restrictions.
> 
> Under the new rules, teams will have to make a number of changes to bodywork from next season. Drivers must use just one set of tyres for qualifying and the entire race while engines will have to last for at least two race meetings.
> 
> Then in 2006, engines will be downsized from 3.0 V10s to 2.4 litre V8s â€" although cash-strapped independent teams will be granted special dispensation to run rev-limited 3.0 litre units until the end of 2007.
> 
> The FIA believe the aerodynamic restrictions, which centre on the diffuser and front and rear wings, will reduce downforce by 20 per cent. The tyre regulations are designed to decrease cornering speeds.
> 
> But it is the engine regulations that have provoked the most controversy.
> 
> All the teams were prepared to agree to the aerodynamic and tyre parts of the package but at least three teams oppose the way the sport's governing body has gone about trying to reduce engine power.
> 
> The three manufacturers who have been most critical of the plans are BMW, Mercedes and Honda. Ferrari and Renault are thought to be the two companies most in favour of the changes.
> 
> An FIA spokesman said: "These regulations impose restrictions on engine development comparable to those already applied to Formula 1 chassis.
> 
> "Such restrictions have by no means stifled technical development of the chassis, but they have prevented uncontrollable increases in performance.
> 
> "In a similar way the proposed engine restrictions will significantly slow the rate of increase of engine power output.
> 
> "Current freedoms have resulted in engines approaching 1000bhp compared to the 650bhp promised when engine capacity was reduced from 3.5 litres to 3.0 litres in 1994/5 following the Imola fatalities."


----------



## rhaythorne

Yep,


----------



## Roger

> What a load of bollox


I second that...


----------



## rhaythorne

Was chatting in the pub the other night (as you do







) and we decided that perhaps the best idea for F1 would be to adopt what they used to do in the British Touring Car Championship.

Basically when one particular car wins a race, it's given a weight penalty for the next race to slow it down a bit. If it wins again it gets another weight penalty and so on, until another car wins and a weight penalty is then applied to them. The only real problem I can think of is where to add the weight to an F1 car so as not to ruin the handling.

Mind you, Michael Schumacher would probably be towing around a caravan full of bricks by now


----------



## jasonm

> real problem I can think of is where to add the weight to an F1 car so as not to ruin the handling


Most of the top cars carry lead ballast anyway as they are well below the 600kg weight minimum...The teams can distribute it at lots of places in the chassis from track to track to change handling...

Good idea


----------



## Roger

_Any_ useful ideas should be welcomed..........................

How about:-

A max engine capacity, say 3.5 litre

A max weight for the car only.

Maximum specified external dimensions.

Common fuel

No radio whatsoever

After that, any device gizmo, software etc...turbocharging, supercharging, nitous, ground effect, whatever the team can devise within the above limits.

Lets, for Gawds sake, bring some interest back into F1...its been a bit processional for some years now.

Roger


----------



## jasonm

> After that, any device gizmo, software etc...turbocharging, supercharging, nitous, ground effect, whatever the team can devise within the above limits


YES YES YES YES PLEASE....

What it used to be ....


----------



## rhaythorne

*Brazil-Interlagos:*

The last race of the season; and a good one I thought! But not a happy finale for Jaguar/Ford though


----------



## jasonm

Fingers crossed....

The major car manufacturers involved in Formula 1 have taken another step forward in their plans to set up a rival grand prix series.

They have signed up a major sports marketing firm to make plans for its introduction by 2008.

GPWC Holdings â€" the group formed by the major car manufacturers involved in Formula 1 â€" has hired International Sports and Entertainment AG with a brief to:

â€œStart building immediately the operational and commercial structure for a new open-wheel motor racing series, to begin no later than 2008".

BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault are unhappy with the current commercial set-up in F1, which is governed by the Concorde Agreement. That runs out in 2007.

GPWC chairman Jurgen Hubbert commented: "We have been more than patient with the current management and governance of Formula One, but recent developments have underlined the need for a structure that guarantees a stable and prosperous future of the sport."


----------



## Nin

> "We have been more than patient with the current management


Bernie is going to die a bitter man ...


----------



## rhaythorne

I had a phone call this morning from Bahrain asking me if I'd like tickets for the GT Festival they're hosting in late November. Grandstand tickets for the whole weekend are $27 (less than Â£15)







I'd be tempted to go if I could get the time off, despite the cost of the air fare + accommodation!

Tickets for the 2005 F1 Grand Prix on the other hand are $350 (Â£190)


----------



## jasonm

Did you know that Bernie isnt rich at all......All 'the cash' is in his wifes name


----------



## jasonm

Bernie Ecclestone and the Formula 1 teams look to have struck a deal which will save the British and French Grands Prix.

During a meeting at a hotel near Heathrow airport on Tuesday, attended by Ecclestone and representatives of nine of the 10 F1 teams, agreement was reached that the teams will shoulder their own costs for the two Grands Prix, which should pave the way for the events to go ahead.

â€œWe believe agreement was reached today that removes any obvious obstacle for the British and French GPs to take place,â€ McLaren team principal Ron Dennis told autosport.com.

Ecclestone added: â€œWe havenâ€™t got a contract with Silverstone yet, but I would be shattered and disappointed if we didnâ€™t get a deal.â€

Good.....


----------



## ericp

Interesting that Ferrari were not at that meeting.

I wonder if the concorde agreement has finally crumbled ?


----------



## Mrcrowley

ericp said:


> Interesting that Ferrari were not at that meeting.
> 
> I wonder if the concorde agreement has finally crumbled ?


 As i'm not into F1, I haven't been following this thread









So what's Concorde got to do with it?


----------



## jasonm

> So what's Concorde got to do with it


Its an agreement that all the teams 'sign up to' for a certain length of time I think upto 2006 for this 'term' for the F1 rules......It means that F1 rules that are set out cant be changed by the FIA unless *all* the teams agree to the proposed changes....


----------



## Mrcrowley

jasonm said:


> So what's Concorde got to do with it
> 
> 
> 
> Its an agreement that all the teams 'sign up to' for a certain length of time I think upto 2006 for this 'term' for the F1 rules......It means that F1 rules that are set out cant be changed by the FIA unless *all* the teams agree to the proposed changes....
Click to expand...

 Cheers Jason.

Clear as mud to me. Thought Ferrari were trying to buy off BA









If it werent for size nobody would have a f'kin chance!


----------



## jasonm

Light at end of tunnel?



> A court has ruled the three banks that own a share in F1 can pursue their legal battle with Bernie Ecclestone in London later this month.
> 
> The banks, who own 75 per cent of F1â€™s holding company to Ecclestoneâ€™s 25 per cent, are taking action in a bid to gain a bigger say in the running of the sport.
> 
> Ecclestoneâ€™s companies, Formula One Holdings Ltd (FOH) and Bambino Holdings Ltd, had appealed for the case to be heard under Swiss law rather than British.
> 
> But Lord Justice Carnwath of the appeal court upheld a decision that the case should be heard in the UK.
> 
> He said that waiting for a ruling from a Geneva court would serve "no purpose but to increase delay and expense".
> 
> The right to appeal was refused and so the main case will now be heard in London later this month.
> 
> The judge added that the case would have major implications on the way the sport is run.
> 
> He said: "The overall dispute concerns the control and future of Formula 1 racing.â€
> 
> The banks - Bayerische Landesbank, JP Morgan and Lehman Brothers - control 75 per cent of SLEC, the holding company that owns the commercial rights to F1.
> 
> However, the composition of FOHâ€™s board means that Ecclestone retains full management control of the Formula 1 group of companies â€" despite owning just 25 per cent of SLEC through his family trust, Bambino Holdings.
> 
> If the banks were to win their case, it would weaken Ecclestone's iron grip on the sport. The financial institutions would probably seek to clinch a deal with the GPWC, thus preventing a breakaway championship and protecting their investment.


----------



## Griff

And I'd like to get an iron grip on Ecclestones throat!!


----------



## jasonm

> Energy drinks company Red Bull is close to buying Jaguar, according to reports.
> 
> The deal is expected to be finalised before Monday evening, the deadline for entries for the 2005 F1 season.
> 
> The Financial Times quoted an â€˜insider close to sale negotiationsâ€™ as saying the deal was almost complete.
> 
> The source said: "We've accepted the offer; exchanged contracts -- all we have to do now is hand over the keys.â€
> 
> The sale is believed to be for a nominal fee but the teamâ€™s previous owners Ford had been seeking assurances that Red Bull had the resources to keep the team afloat for three years.
> 
> *US corporate rules dictate that Ford would still be liable to team employees for that period of time after the sale*.
> 
> The news means that there should be 10 teams on the F1 grid next season, and will ensure that no team has to run three cars.


Diddnt know that about US corporate rules









Good news though!!


----------



## rhaythorne

I hope they'll be fully compliant with the new rules on aerodynamics. After all, Red Bull gives you wings


----------



## rhaythorne

Had the entire set of DVD's from 1970 through 1980 delivered last week


















You can get them as a box set in NTSC format including the 1970-1979 seasons with 1980 thrown in for free, or buy them individually in PAL format and get a free DVD Player









The DVD Player they sent me was this:










Not at all bad for a freebie! That's another Christmas present sorted


----------



## jasonm

Excelent Rich...









Do they do 1980-1990?

This was my 'era' as a kid watching wide eyed







The turbo years, where everybody used to run out of petrol on the last lap


----------



## rhaythorne

> Do they do 1980-1990?


I don't think so







Yet!

They used to do the whole lot on VHS and I had a few of them. Unfortunately the quality of the tapes they used was pretty dire so I didn't buy very many and decided to wait for them to come out on DVD.

But it seems that they're transferring them only in dribs and drabs (probably all sorts of legal/commercial wranglings going on I guess). The only ones I know that are available so far are 1970-1980 (when "Brunswick Films were one of the few producers filming Formula One in the days before global TV coverage and official season review videos"), 2003 and 2004. Everything in between is so far missing.


----------



## jasonm

The British Racing Drivers' Club have clinched a deal with Bernie Ecclestone to keep the British GP on the F1 calendar for the next five years.

An official announcement has yet to be made but it is understood that the deal was signed on Thursday morning.

Not surprisingly, sports minister Richard Caborn welcomed the news.

He said: "This is a great day for the future of the motor industry in the UK.

"We have been working with the East Midlands Development Agency and the local authority to develop this industrial cluster at Silverstone.

"This should not only secure the long-term future of the all the teams operating out of the UK but will give the opportunity for others to join.

"This is consistent with the Government's policy of developing world-beating centres of excellence for manufacturing."

The deal, which secures the Silverstone race until 2009, comes just a day before next year's F1 calendar is due to be officially ratified in Monte Carlo.

BRDC president Sir Jackie Stewart refused to reveal exactly what date the race will be given.

He told Sky: "The announcement will be confirmed tomorrow in Monte Carlo."

Britain is one of only two countries - the other being Italy - that has staged a grand prix every year since the foundation of the F1 world championship in 1950.

Phew!


----------



## jasonm

> Sauber have signed a sponsorship deal with Swiss sport watch brand Certina.
> 
> Team boss Peter Sauber said: "Certina and Sauber Petronas â€" these are two brands that ideally fit together.
> 
> â€œGaining a Swiss company as a partner is always something very special for me.â€
> 
> The company will become an official partner of Sauber, and the entire team will be equipped with their watches.
> 
> Sauber are currently on the look-out for new sponsorship, having lost their lucrative Red Bull deal.


Lucky buggers


----------



## rhaythorne

I wonder if there'll be a Certina "F1" or Sauber related model?


----------



## jasonm

I hope you will all be staying up till 4.00 AM Sunday morning like me to watch the first race of the season







Coverage starts at 1.45AM...


----------



## pg tips

Errr in a word...... NO







I will watch the highlights though esp if Ferrari don't win!


----------



## jasonm

> esp if Ferrari don't win!


Renault are tipped for the win


----------



## rhaythorne

Perfect









Renault/Ferrari (not necessarily in that order) are my favourite teams. I'll be staying up and will try to blag Monday off work


----------



## pg tips

I'll be watching the Seikos!!!!



> Seiko sponsors Formula 1 team
> 
> Seiko Watch Corporation is pleased to announce the launch of a partnership with the BAR Honda racing team. This agreement was unveiled in Barcelona on January 16 when the new 2005 car was also launched. It has immediate effect.
> 
> Under the terms of this agreement, Seiko will be a Team Partner and will enjoy a wide ranging package of marketing rights, including brand name recognition on the driversâ€™ suits and elsewhere. Seiko will also supply the team with its leading-edge sports watch collection, Sportura. The drivers, Takuma Sato and Jenson Button will wear the very latest Kinetic Chronograph models, designed especially for motor sport.
> 
> The BAR Honda Team is just six years old but has already become one of the leading teams, finishing second to Ferrari at the end of the 2004 season. Jenson Button took third place in the Driverâ€™s Championship and Takuma Sato eighth.
> 
> Seiko joins Honda, Michelin, Rayban and just 4 other companies in this highest tier of sponsorship of the team.
> 
> This agreement covers a 3 year period and represents Seikoâ€™s first international involvement in Formula One racing. Seiko has over 40 years of active involvement in sports timing and sponsorship, including 6 Olympic Games, 9 IAAF World Championships and many hundreds of other international events and sports from swimming to cycling and Paralympic events.












you can just make out the Seiko logo on the board on the left!


----------



## jasonm

> I'll be staying up and will try to blag Monday off work


Im staying up too but ive then got to be in Olympia at 9.00AM Sunday for a 3 day exhibition


----------



## JoT

I couldn't sleep last night so I got up and watched the Ausstralian F1 .... he new rules have taken the only interesting bit out of the race the pit-stop with tyres







.

The qualifying seems to be a lottery and the one set of tyres rule doesnt seem to have made much difference.

In short it was a dreary procession.


----------



## pg tips

expected as much John , won't watch it now!









Only good point M Schumacher Nil points!


----------



## JoT

They are trying to engineer results that do not reflect the best car and the best driver .... I suspect the new rules will not fool people for long.

I found the whole thing very unsatisfactory .... and artificial ... at least last season with Schumacher doing what Shumacher does best .... was "real".

I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think F1 will survive long in this form


----------



## rhaythorne

It wasn't a very exciting race that's for sure









But it was nice to see Fisi get his second victory and actually get to stand on the podium this time!

The possibility of rain causing a topsy-turvy grid has often (depending on the rules of the season) been present so I don't think that's anything particularly new. The one tyre set rule probably wont affect things much as the tyre technology is so advanced now. If this was the early 90's perhaps it would cause some interesting strategies to develop - like one team member racing ahead forcing their competitors to chase hard and use up their tyres whilst the second team member hangs back, preserving their tyres for a late charge. But that might lead to accusations of "team orders" and you're not allowed to do that any more either!

Clearly the "one engine two races" rule is a farce as demonstrated by BAR, who, by deliberately not finishing the race now get a "free" engine change.


----------



## Roger

I humbly suggest bringing back all the gizmos, gadgets, aerodynamics, ground effect designs, slick tyres etc, just like it was when Mansel and co slugged it out, major tubo/engine blowups and all.

IMHO F1 cars shouild have performance wildly in excess of driver ability.

F1 seems to me going the way of " proper " rallying before it became a procession of shopping cars.

Just an opinion (although I do speak with first-hand experience of serious rallying)

Roger


----------



## rhaythorne

Roger said:



> F1 seems to me going the way of " proper " rallying before it became a procession of shopping cars.


Know what you mean. The Lancia Stratos was probably my favourite.

Looking back through my 1970's F1 DVD's it certainly seems as though much of the design flair is now missing. Not becuase the talent isn't there, but because the rules are so strict.


----------



## Roger

> The Lancia Stratos was probably my favourite


Yes one of mine too, lovely fragile beast...

also the 6R4, TR8, and my own favourite, the Delta Integrale ( I did 2 events in a Delta)

Roger


----------



## rhaythorne

Every now and again I get a mad impulse to buy an Integrale! The road versions still pop up for sale now and again. Bit difficult to get them serviced though I expect and LHD would probably just be an irritation. Make a cool track day car though


----------



## Roger

Rich,

Dont buy one unless you have fairly deep pockets!

Roger


----------



## rhaythorne

Roger said:


> Rich,
> 
> Dont buy one unless you have fairly deep pockets!
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
> 
> ←
> ​












I envy you for having driven the real thing!


----------



## Roger

Nice one Rich!



> I envy you for having driven the real thing!


well yes and no....yes I have driven one several times, but always on the road sections between stages....I was co-driver/navigator for several years but still retain my competition licence

You wouldnt believe the number of OS maps that I have thrown-up over!

Roger


----------



## Griff

It these new F1 rules mean Schumacher is no longer going to dominate then I am a very happy bunny!!


----------



## JoT

Griff said:


> It these new F1 rules mean Schumacher is no longer going to dominate then I am a very happy bunny!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ←
> ​


But it's artificial .... F1 run on socialist principles


----------



## rhaythorne

Roger said:


> Nice one Rich!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I envy you for having driven the real thing!
> 
> 
> 
> well yes and no....yes I have driven one several times, but always on the road sections between stages....I was co-driver/navigator for several years but still retain my competition licence
> 
> You wouldnt believe the number of OS maps that I have thrown-up over!
> 
> 
> 
> ←
> ​
Click to expand...

No less impressive Roger. I'm a terrible passenger even under normal road conditions. I'd never be able to stand being bounced around in a rally car at 100mph whilst still trying to read a map and shout clear instructions to the driver. I'd be blubbing into the intercom probably









I might take my 172 Cup down to Brands Hatch in May for the next Renault_sport_ track day. Paddock Hill bend looks fearsome even from the spectators' vantage point. Flying into there at 80-90mph will be, um, interesting







I need some new front boots first. I shredded the last lot at Bedford Autodrome - too much understeer. I can see myself winding up in the gravel trap







Better than the cold, hard barrier I guess! It'll fun following in the tyre tracks of the F1 stars of yesteryear though


----------



## Griff

JoT said:


> Griff said:
> 
> 
> 
> It these new F1 rules mean Schumacher is no longer going to dominate then I am a very happy bunny!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ←
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> But it's artificial .... F1 run on socialist principles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ←
> ​
Click to expand...


----------



## Roger

> I'm a terrible passenger even under normal road conditions


Yes OK Rich...

well its something that some co-drivers, myself included, never get over no matter what medication you take......OS maps make great sick bags!!

Enjoy your track day Rich...sounds like a lot of fun.....

as for driving circuits, my Mum-in-laws family come from Belgium, not far from the Spa circuit, I have driven it on open days in the past...its my favourite F1 circuit of all, absolutely riveting.

My own personal ambition would be to ride Leguna Seca on a Ducati....that Corkscrew looks awsome....

Roger


----------



## rhaythorne

Griff said:


> It these new F1 rules mean Schumacher is no longer going to dominate then I am a very happy bunny!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ←
> ​


then JoT said:



> But it's artificial .... F1 run on socialist principlesÂ


The rules are the same for everyone. I can't see it penalizing or favouring Schumacher at all, or anyone else for that matter.

As far as I'm concerned, the results at Australia were pretty much perfect. Renault and Ferrari in the top three positions







Schumi will just bide his time no doubt


----------



## jasonm

> It these new F1 rules mean Schumacher is no longer going to dominate then I am a very happy bunny


Thats good of you Griff, why not penalise all top sportsmen for being bettter than the rest..

Tiger Woods can play golf with a hockey stick and Kelly Homes can run in flip flops, Pincent can row with a kitchen spatula...


----------



## rhaythorne

I think Man Utd should have to play in Wellingtons.


----------



## pg tips

I thought they did at Palace!


----------



## rhaythorne

Here's something for 1970's F1 fans. Anyone remember having any of these as a kid? I do, and now I'm a big kid I can have all of them









Well, I thought it would make a nice change from watches anyway









Corgi F1


----------



## jasonm

> Well, I thought it would make a nice change from watches anyway


Probably just as expencive









Cool though


----------



## rhaythorne

jasonm said:


> Well, I thought it would make a nice change from watches anyway
> 
> 
> 
> Probably just as expencive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ←
> ​
Click to expand...

Surprisingly cheap actually. Apart from the Surtees TS9 which someone else obviously wanted very badly most of the others were Â£6 each, mint in slightly worn boxes


----------



## pg tips

I had the JPS lotus!


----------



## namaste

I had the Tyrell P34!









I'm going to my parents house in 10 days, I'll have a look if I can find it in the attic!


----------



## rhaythorne

So, it's a Renault hat-trick! No backlash yet then?

Can Ferrari claw their way back to the front? (OK, that's not _really_ a question







)

Toyota seem to have come from nowhere to be real contenders


----------



## jasonm

Yep, it seems to be mixed up nicely now, Del a Rosa had an interesting race!!









a few silly mistakes but a good result for him, poor old Jensons having a tough time this season, BAR should never have sacked Richards


----------



## pg tips

err it's still


----------



## rhaythorne

Whaaaattt??? Apart from Australia it's been great!


----------



## Griff

jasonm said:


> It these new F1 rules mean Schumacher is no longer going to dominate then I am a very happy bunny
> 
> 
> 
> Thats good of you Griff, why not penalise all top sportsmen for being bettter than the rest..
> 
> Tiger Woods can play golf with a hockey stick and Kelly Homes can run in flip flops, Pincent can row with a kitchen spatula...
> 
> 
> 
> ←
> ​
Click to expand...











Knickers!!!................same rules for everyone!!!


----------



## jasonm

> Knickers!!!................same rules for everyone!!!


I agree Griff but I dont agree that rules should be changed to stop individual teams dominating the sport, the rules have ALWAYS been the same for everyone, its just that Ferrari have made them work better for them than anyone else









This championship is going to be won or lost on the tyre performance and not much else IMVHO


----------



## Griff

Something has to done to make the tyres go round dunnit


----------



## rhaythorne

Did anyone else watch the San Marino GP? The last 15 laps was edge-of-the-seat racing providing one of the closest finishes I can remember. Too bad if Jason missed it








Schumacher and Ferrari are most definitely back. Can't wait for Spain in a fortnight's time


----------



## pg tips

Heard it on the radio in the van Rich, sounded quite good I'll tune in to the highlights


----------



## Roger

> Schumacher and Ferrari are most definitely back


well at least the bit where Button fell over some tailenders and not being able to stick too close to the Renault, it was mostly pit-strategy....If McClaren get sorted, I dont think MS will be able to live with Kimi


----------



## pg tips

why oh why are the highlights on sooooo late









And is it true on the live broadcast itv went to an Ad break with 3 laps to go?

That would have put my







count beyond what Griff posts if I'd been watching.


----------



## jasonm

Shame I missed the last race, sounded like a good one....

Naughty BAR?

I think F1 is all about pushing the rule limits so top marks for trying I say











> BAR-Honda has got off lightly with a two-race ban according to the FIA's president Max Mosley.
> 
> BAR has been punished for using fuel as ballast during the San Marino Grand Prix, following an FIA Court of Appeal Hearing in Paris on Wednesday.
> 
> In addition to its two-race ban, the team has been given a six-month suspended ban, suspended for a year, and had its points taken away from the Imola result where Jenson Button and Takuma Sato finished third and fifth.
> 
> "The facts in this case are very clear," said Mosley.
> 
> "The team was asked to pump the fuel out of their car. They left 15 litres in the tank and told us it was empty.
> 
> "Under the circumstances, we feel they have been treated rather leniently."
> 
> According to the statement issued by the FIA, 8.92kg of fuel remained in the special compartment within the tank after the car had been drained on request in scrutineering at Imola.
> 
> A further 2.46kg also remained in the bottom of the tank.
> 
> "These quantities remained in the vehicle after the BAR Honda team had confirmed 'That's it' when asked if the draining process was complete," read the statement.
> 
> The statement also indicates that there was not enough evidence to prove that BAR had acted in a deliberately fraudulent manner.
> 
> But it said: "Their actions at the time of the emptying procedure of the vehicle after the event, and the fact that they did not use their right to address a request for clarification on the rules to the Technical Formula One Department of the FIA, show at the least a highly regrettable negligence and lack of transparency."
> 
> The team's technical director Geoff Willis claimed during the hearing that 5.29kg of fuel is required for the car to operate correctly, and the team has based its calculations for meeting minimum weight regulations on this fact.
> 
> "We believe that the weight of fuel in the collector is part of the weight of the car," he said.
> 
> "The car required fuel in the collector to work. That is the position we use for our own weight calculations


----------



## rhaythorne

Nurburgring 2005









I defy anyone to say _this_ race was boring









I'm amazed Kimi's right front tyre lasted as long as it did. I'm surprised the guy could even see where he was going with all that vibration. I think maybe the vibration from the knackered tyre just broke his suspension on the final lap









This puts Alonso another 10 points in front. He's going to be hard to catch.


----------



## jasonm

I agree....Superb race, shame Webber was out so early....









Excellent result....

Come on Bridgestone, sort your tyres out!!!!


----------



## pg tips

Tuned in with 5 laps to go, spotted Kimi's tyre problem straight away, well you could hardly miss it. I said to the mrs that'll shake his front suspension to bits before long.

I'm glad it went before the end of the race although you'd have thought they could have rigged it to snap just as he came round the last bend causing him to spin uncontrolably but still cross the line in front!

Why is F1 so boring?














.


----------



## jasonm

Another classic race!!!!!!!!!!























Riviting stuff, shame Oikenen won, only cos I dont like him or his boss









Such a shame for Alonso and Button









Its so topsy turvey


----------



## Roger

Great result for the probably next world champ.

Well done Kimi and McC...power to you


----------



## rhaythorne

> Oikenen



















Superb start by the Renault's as I would've expected. Too bad it just wasn't to be









A decent second place for Schumi and the prancing horse though


----------



## hakim

I like Kimi and Mclaren. In my opinion Kimi is long overdue a World Championship









What about Juan Pablo with that exit yesterday? The way he tusseled with David, I knew he was going to get a slap on the wrist, but a black flag?







Well, rules are rules....

Cracking race. Go Kimi go


----------



## albini13

hakim said:


> I like Kimi and Mclaren. In my opinion Kimi is long overdue a World Championship
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about Juan Pablo with that exit yesterday? The way he tusseled with David, I knew he was going to get a slap on the wrist, but a black flag?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, rules are rules....
> 
> Cracking race. Go Kimi go
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ←
> ​


If i were in charge of F1 i'd have to make a few changes in order to make it exciting. First of all i'd swap the powerful F1 cars for Volkwagen camper vans (with curtains). Secondly my camper vans would have a machine gun turret on the roof. Spikes would be fit to all wheel e la chariot style. The track would be covered in oil to reduce grip. Ramps and loop the loop type thingies would be added. And last but not least, flame throwers fitted inside the front grill. Then and only then would i watch F1.


----------



## jasonm

Proposed F1 rule changes for F1 from 2008









The suggested measures include:

* a massive reduction in aerodynamic downforce, to approximately 10 percent of current levels









* an increase in car width to prevent a corresponding reduction in drag and thereby keep straightline speeds in check









* increased mechanical grip through a return to slick tyres
















* a single tyre supplier









* a ban on tyre-warming blankets










* the banning of exotic materials and introduction of a host of standardised components









* a standard FIA-issued Electronic Control Unit to enable the elimination of electronic driver aids such as traction control









* the introduction of standard gearboxes, with manual gear changing and foot-operated clutches
















* a ban on pits-to-car telemetry and strict control of data acquisition systems










* a testing limit of 30,000km per team between January 1 and December 31 (subject to a single tyre supplier being appointed)









* the banning of spare cars









* teams being allowed to purchase chassis (as well as engines) on a customer basis









Not bad I think, shame they are resricting aero so much though


----------



## hakim

Just saw those proposals too Jason. Agree with them except banning exotic materials and standard gearboxes. I think F1 being the pinnacle of motor sports should be allowed to explore and use high end technology. Thats the main attraction for me anyway









I also like the idea of slick tyres and less downforce. Hopefully we'll see more sliding round corners and proper driver control. Banning traction control altogether is good too


----------



## pg tips

bloody stupid banning inovation IMO, virtually all the inovation in modern road cars has come from the massive budgets in F1 development.

And making cars wider is really gonna help at Monaco isn't it?









those poor drivers will be knacked when they bring manual gear change back!

Should get them driving a dodge 50 for a few hours, they'd never want to see aclutch pedal again!


----------



## jasonm

> Just saw those proposals too Jason. Agree with them except banning exotic materials and standard gearboxes. I think F1 being the pinnacle of motor sports should be allowed to explore and use high end technology. Thats the main attraction for me anyway


couldnt agree more


----------



## rhaythorne

Hmmm, a 1960's Grand Prix car would probably fit in quite nicely with the new proposals


----------



## rhaythorne

Can't believe what's going on in Indianapolis re. the Michelin tyre problem! Are we even going to see a race?


----------



## rhaythorne

Un-feckin'believable


----------



## namaste

I think f1 would definitely be better off without the likes of mr bernie, Schumi sr, and the lot at Ferrari. Today is the day F1 died...
















Glorious race at Le Mans from the little I've read so far...


----------



## JoT

Michelen got the tyre wrong ... you can't blame Ferrari, Minardi and Jordan for sticking two fingers up to the Michelin teams.


----------



## JoT

Also if the FIA and F1 didnt have such stupid tyre rules and regulations there would never have been an issue ... the teams could have just changed the tyres


----------



## jasonm

> you can't blame Ferrari, Minardi and Jordan for sticking two fingers up to the Michelin teams


Yep, I agree, this is what happens with such narrow rules, no room for compromise









Get back to grass roots racing


----------



## rhaythorne

Whilst I'm happy that Ferrari and their drivers have gained some points (despite the fact that it was a totally avoidable PR disaster) I'm amazed - actually shocked - that the powers that be allowed it to happen at all.

What the US fans (who might've paid up to several hundred dollars to watch that fiasco) must think I can't imagine.

I would've suspected a single lap or two on the "bad" Michellin tyres followed by a round of pit stops with possible subsequent penalties; but no, we had a complete farce instead.

Maybe tyres don't roll at Michelin but a few heads will come Monday morning I suspect. A few too should at the FIA as well as they could have rescued the situation but chose not to.


----------



## Roger

I guess only a team like ferrari would have continued with such a farce, but the ethics departed from ferrari when a certain frenchman gotten himself employed there. that was probably about the time that I lost respect for ferrari.

I'm sure they and their "sporting" director feel well satisfied, probably the only way they were gonna win anyway.

What a farce, the sight of pathetic little bernie shrugging his shoulders said it all.

Time to change the whole management structure of F1 and possibly rid themselves of the FIA?

Roger


----------



## jasonm

Im not so sure its such a farce really, the reason its so 'bad' is that so many teams were affected, there have been loads of occasions when a team has not raced because of a suspect part, was it BAR who pulled their cars because of rear wing failures? Would they have changed the track for them if they complained? No.

What would happen if McLaren came to a track then said its brakes wernt up to the race and can we take out a couple of corners?

Of course its a crap situation but the way it was handled today was the only logical way to put on the race,

From a sporting and spectating point of veiw it was crap but I think we have long said in this topic it ceased to be a sport a long time ago,

Hopefully this will galvanise them into action.

Stoddy said it best when he said the people at the top were sticking their noses in to much and too often.

This had nothing to do with Bernie, it was the FIAs decision of which Bernie isnt a part of.....

P.S I dont think we would be having quite this discussion if it was Bridgestone with the problem....


----------



## Roger

> This had nothing to do with Bernie, it was the FIAs decision of which Bernie isnt a part of.....


You mean he has no influence in that direction??? you see those pink curly-tailed animals flying over???

The whole thing should have be postponed or cancelled with some dignity.

What summarised it for me was the coverage on CNN at the "prizegiving" was a group of american ferrari fans screaming at the team...." get otta here, you stink"

Sez it all really


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## jasonm

> You mean he has no influence in that direction


He obviously hasnt got that much influence has he?

Im sure Bernie more than anyone knows how much this has negetivly affected F1 ....


----------



## Roger

> Im sure Bernie more than anyone knows how much this has negetivly affected F1 ....


Probably the death-knell as far as the USA is concerned.

May be a good thing, the Indy circuit is not an interesting one for F1


----------



## ESL

JoT said:


> Michelen got the tyre wrong ... you can't blame Ferrari, Minardi and Jordan for sticking two fingers up to the Michelin teams.
> 
> 
> 
> ←
> ​


I have to agree: you can't blame the FIA, Ferrari, Minardi and Jordan for wanting the race to continue as originally planned. It's not their fault that the other teams suddenly decided that their equipment was not up to the race.

You wouldn't expect Tiger Woods to ask if he could play the 18th hole a bit differently because he thought that the 9 Iron he brought was not up to it!


----------



## Roger

> You wouldn't expect Tiger Woods to ask if he could play the 18th hole a bit differently because he thought that the 9 Iron he brought was not up to it!


The other players might if they thought the head would break away from the shaft and kill someone.

Just remember that it could have been a Bridgestone runner who got involved in an accident caused by sub-standard tyres.

I.m sure anyone on the M1 might ask the driver of a vehicle with disintegrating tyre to drive a little differently.


----------



## ESL

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make Roger.

Of course we would not expect someone to do something potentially dangerous with equipment which was considered to be in some way inadequate. Which is exactly what happened! Michelin advised teams using its product not to race - and they didn't. This legitimately left the way wide open for those teams not using Michelin to race.

My analogy stands in my opinion: You can't expect either a last minute rule change or alteration in the track geometry to accomodate those teams which were using - reportedly - sub standard equipment.

I'm not defending the rules but the fact is, that they were the same for everyone there and the tyre rule has been known all season. Likewise, the track was a known entity and - substandard equipment excepted - held the same risks for all teams racing there.

That the FIA and the "Rules" and Bernie Ecclestone, and the future of F1 in the US will come out of this badly is a matter for ongoing debate. That Michelin screwed up royally, is beyond doubt. How many bets now on Michelin being in F1 next season? Bridgestone must be laughing themselves silly right now.


----------



## Roger

In a statement from IMS (Indianappolis Motor Speedway) just after the "race ",



> We suggest the fans who wish to make their feelings known contact Michelin, the FIA and Formula One Management.


That from the people who staged the (non) event.

What say Bernie? another shrug of the shoulders??

Clear to see who they blame.

From Trulli todays polesitter



> "I think Formula 1 has sent the message that they're reasonable, they're sensible and that the number one priority is safety.


----------



## hakim

I have never seen an F1 race degrade to what took place yesterday







and I think the blame goes entirely to Michelin. I hope they never make it back to Formula 1.

They have to be serious about F1 otherwise they shouldn't even contemplate taking part. To me its not OK that when Michelin supply the right tyre for the track, they take all the glory and when they fail to supply another tyre to suit another track, they clam up and close shop citing safety reasons. Just not acceptable at this level. This is an international event, they are an international company and the stakes are just too high to have school yard shennigans.

Michelin had enough time to know of the new rules introduction since last year and come up with a suitable tyre for each track. They have the recources. If all the Michelin running teams were not winning races this year, I'm sure they would have sued their tyre supplier. That is the only reason Michelin got off lightly.

No one else is to blame. The FIA cannot go bending the rules to suit everyone on every race weekend. They have a tough enough job without having this pie thrown on their face. Nor is Bernie or Ferrari or the other non-runnig teams to blame. If it was Bridgestone who pulled such a stunt, you can be sure Michelin would be gloating by now.

And Jarno Trulli's comments about F1 sending a message about safety is boll***s! Mr. Trulli, I think you should quit racing and go work for the North Korean dictatorship as their PR. David Coulthard was the only driver there speaking his mind. All the rest were dancing around the issue!


----------



## pg tips

So what was the problem about the tyres? I understand Michelin have said they couldn't explain Fridays incidents but what was different this year from last? If the Michy tyres were ok in 04 then why did they not work this year (or am I missing something?).


----------



## ESL

I'm with you Hakim. There is no one else to blame for this except Michelin.

Both tyre manufacturers have got used to the current rules and they know the tracks. With the current rule-set both have got used to supplying two sets of tyres per race: 1 set that is fast for the track, but which may be "on the limit" and 1 set that will be slow for the track, but safe under just about any conditions. Michelin screwed up: they supplied both sets as fast and when it turned out that they were too "marginal" for a particularly fast turn, asked for rule change to ship in some safer tyres. The FIA said no - you can't have a major sporting event where the rules are open for negotiation at each event.

Then Michelin tried another tack: they stated that the speed through that particular turn was too fast (for them) and would the FIA slow the speed through the turn with a chicane. The FIA quite rightly said no again, this would in effect penalise the other teams who had already prepared for the race with the track as it is. It would have the effect of making the track less safe for all teams, who had already practised with the track as it was and set up their cars to suit.

Michelin then said that the cars (Michelin shod cars) could only race safely if the speeds through that turn were slower. The FIA said it would be quite happy to monitor the affected teams to ensure that any set limit was kept. All the Michelin teams then complained because they wanted the limit changed for ALL TEAMS (cheeky buggers!!!). Ferrari quite rightly told them to naff off!! Their failure to arrive with a working set of tyres was no fault of theirs.

NOW, on the other hand the poor punter! I think the teams and the FIA missed a chance to stage the event as a non-scoring race. A good solution perhaps? Well, maybe, but the punters would not have seen a competitive race, just more of a procession than we normally see. Postpone it? I don't think so: you can't just tell 100,000 punters to go home and come back next week/month/year.

And of course, the BIG problem with any of those alternatives is that they would once again penalise the Bridgestone teams, who turned up on the day with raceworthy equipment.

Let's face it, Bridgestone have been criticised most of this current season for being too conservative with their tyres and being "off the pace". So what happens when they finally get it right? The FIA changes the rules to suit the Michelin runners?

I don't think so!


----------



## hakim

Michelins tyre construction method is different from Bridgestones. Their sidewalls are softer. That may be an advantage on most of the F1 circuits, but in Indy the high speed coming out of the last corner plus the 9 degree banking and the high speeds on the long straight put the tyre under severe strain that it was not designed for. Added to that, this years Indy circuit have been re-layered with a diamond cut surface







making it more adhesive and increases tyre wear.

In other words the Michelin tyre just could not cope, hence Schumi's Jr's smash into the wall, again









Your question is correct Pg. If they raced there last year why couldn't they carry on from there? Why suddenely get caught with their pants down?


----------



## pg tips

Ah thks for the explanation George. Are Michelin still French owned?


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## ESL

Yep, I think so PG.


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## Nin

> Are Michelin still French owned?


You're thinking what I'm thinking, aren't you?


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## pg tips




----------



## ESL

No.... they wouldn't...









would they...


----------



## Nin

Hmm

freedom fries?

boycotting Beaujolais?

being called "cheese eating surrender monkeys"

It must hurt.


----------



## jasonm

> you can't have a major sporting event where the rules are open for negotiation at each event.


Yep..Thats about the bottom line...

Its only blown up into this debarcle because so many teams were affected...


----------



## ESL

I think what we will see now, is Michelin frantically trying to shift the blame onto the FIA for not allowing a rule change for "safety reasons" when in reality the safety issues created on turn 13 were entirely of their own making: i.e. their reluctance to certify their tyres as safe, when cornering at the speeds expected in that turn.

They screwed up - they alone must account for that.


----------



## chrisb

Bridgestone we lucky that they didn't get caught out as well.

The surfacing at the Speedway had been altered, with some sort of diamond-cut groove on the banking, which creates much more grip/wear/heat than before

It is only because their sister co. Firestone had problems a few weeks ago with the CART? race and the new surface, and informed Bridgestone of the problems, that they were prepared!

As Indianapolis is not a designated testing track, there is really no way that Michelin could've reasonably predicted the extra stresses caused by the altered surfacing

A total cock-up by all the Principals involved


----------



## jasonm

I would be very very surprised if Michelin didnt know that the track had been resurfaced, as George pointed out the tyre teams have to have a back up super safe 'slow' tyre for this sort of situation, maybe Bridgestone were using this tyre?

Michelin diddnt have one and my guess is they will be delt with severley...


----------



## Nin

> maybe Bridgestone were using this tyre?


It seems from Schumi's interviews that they *were* using their back-up tyre ...


----------



## namaste

THAT is an interesting post, thanks Chris!


----------



## chrisb

Jason, I didn't say that Michelin didn't know about the altered surfacing, just that they had no means of assessing the impact of it.

if Firestone had not informed Bridgestone of the problems, Bridgestone would've been caught out as well.


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## jasonm

I take your point Chris, but Michelin should have had a back up tyre, like Bridgestone did...


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## rhaythorne

Here's a link to a page on the FIA website which shows the exchange of letters between Michelin and Charlie Whiting.

I tend to agree with Charlie Whiting.

Correspondence between Michelin and FIA Race Director

And further correspondence.


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## jasonm

Seams fair enough to me


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## ESL

chrisb said:


> Jason, I didn't say that Michelin didn't know about the altered surfacing, just that they had no means of assessing the impact of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ←
> ​


I can't believe that a multi-million budget company like Michelin can't or does not have the technical savvy to figure out what effects any given road surface will have on one of their tyres, fitted to an F1 car, at speed. When raceways change the surface finish of their tracks, you can bet safely that the tyre companies know what is going on and can gauge the likely effects.

Let's assume for a moment, that Michelin truly had no idea how their tyre would perform on the Indy track (and if this was the case, they should be banned from supplying race tyres, after all - this is their basic bread and butter): if that were indeed the case then they should have taken the precaution of supplying an alternate set of tyres with a more conservative performance to allow the teams to race, albeit off the pace a little.

If they really can't figure out something very basic like that, then they truly have no business in performance car racing.


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## jasonm




----------



## hakim

The way I see it is like this. If you are in a certain business you have to know where you stand, your competition, any new developments etc etc. In the tyre business I would think there are not more than 10 major players, maybe less. Michelin, like the others, surely know what is happenning in the tyre world. I'm sure they have people monitoring their competition in all the major races. They would not want to be left behind; the stakes are just too high.

So, I'm sure they knew about the problems but they either cocked up, or loss of communication somewhere within or they just don't have the goods







and the best way to cover up is "safety reasons". No one can argue with that right?


----------



## jasonm

French tyre manufacturer Michelin has offered to refund race day ticket holders for the US Grand Prix, the company announced in a statement on Tuesday.

Michelin stressed that the decision, which could cost between Â£7m and Â£10m, was a "sincere gesture of goodwill" and that it had voluntarily decided to refund the US fans despite being under no legal obligation to do so


----------



## ESL

Nothing at all to do with it all being an absolutely unmitigated technical and PR disaster from Michelin's point of view, and that it is probably what they have been advised by their lawyers, is the barest minimum they can get away with, without seeming to accept the blame for what happened, and having the FIA stomp all over them, like they royally deserve.


----------



## hakim

That gesture came suspiciously close to the FIA meeting yesterday. Looks to me like a move to soften the blow Michelin was expecting for its blunder. And now the other Michelin teams are paying for it too


----------



## jasonm

Anyone still think its a sport?









Formula One Administration, the company that sells grand prix racingâ€™s lucrative media rights, has reported a substantial drop in turnover in its 2003 accounts, recently filed at Companies House.

The figures show that FOAâ€™s turnover tumbled from $643 million (Â£351 million) in 2002 to $562 million (Â£307 million) the following year.

However, profits rose by some $31 million (Â£17 million) to $158 million (386 million) in the same period, largely due to the fact that the profit-sapping F1 digital TV service was wound up at the end of 2002.

F1 Digital was the pet project of Formula 1 ringmaster Bernie Ecclestone and opened amid much fanfare in 1996 but failed to attract large enough audiences to be sustainable.

The accounts also reveal that Ecclestone trebled his salary to $4.1 million (Â£2.2 million) and that the FOA is running ahead of schedule in repayments on a $1.4 million bond it took out in 1999, secured against F1â€™s future revenues.

As of the end of 2003, half of the original bond had been repaid, and it is thought the aim is to clear the balance by the end of 2006 â€" opening the way for various refinancing possibilities.

The word in the paddock is that the 10 Formula 1 teams are considering another major bond issue to buy out the majority shareholding held by three banks â€" BayernLB, JP Morgan and Lehman Brothers â€" which are known to be concerned about the value of their investment.


----------



## Roy

Not watched or been bothered since the Mansell days.


----------



## jasonm

> and that the FOA is running ahead of schedule in repayments on a $1.4 million bond it took out in 1999, secured against F1â€™s future revenues


I dont understand this bit...A 'paltry' 1.4 mill? why not pay it all off?


----------



## rhaythorne

Silverstone - a good race









Nice to see Montoya win (and convincingly too) although I'm no McLaren fan.

Arrrggghhhhh! If only Fisi hadn't stalled at the last pit stop!


----------



## Roger

If only Trulli and Sato hadn't spoiled a good race


----------



## pg tips

won on the first 2 corners and lost by traffic apart from that a bit processional.

good weather for the GBGP though!


----------



## jasonm

New track today, Istanbul, should be interesting


----------



## pg tips

I see Williams have gone to Cosworth for engines next season and BMW will be running their own works team.

Looking at yesterdays Q the track looks a belter, now if they banned pit stops we might get a race!


----------



## rhaythorne

> I see Williams have gone to Cosworth for engines next season


They may as well go to Cosworth for their tyres as well for all the good that the Michelins did them


----------



## JoT

I watched the GP .... the commentators at the end said how exciting it was ....









I just didn't see it ... F1 really has to do something ... it must be just about the dullest of all motorsports these days.


----------



## ericp

I have taken to watching MOTO GP. First class racing, real characters off track, stunning machinery.

I took my son to Donnginton it was breathtaking...


----------



## Roger

> MOTO GP


Been following that for years...gotten a bit "samey" thesedays.

The ubiquitous suzhondkawyammy arte getting tedious....we need more from the likes of Aprillia, MV, Ducati and such....

I think I will start going back to the IOM...thats where the real excitement is these days.

Oh...and the F1.....OK, not a bad circuit....I still dont think that Button has the little bit extra to be a Weltmeister....he would make a damn fine No 2 driver though....

Some rules need altering as well....too much there for me to type....

Roger


----------



## pg tips

pg tips said:


> Boring start to another boring season?
> 
> Discuss....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ←
> ​


Can you believe I started this thread with the above on 23 March 2004.

Haven't times changed? Well done Fernando on becoming the youngest ever world champion. And no I didn't watch it and yes it is still boring IMHO.

Rich did you go to the A1 at Brands? Anygood?


----------



## jasonm

Yep, well done Fernando!!!









I hear the A1 Brands Hatch race was good as well, shame it was on Sky only


----------



## rhaythorne

pg tips said:


> pg tips said:
> 
> 
> 
> Boring start to another boring season?
> 
> Discuss....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ←
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Can you believe I started this thread with the above on 23 March 2004.
> 
> Haven't times changed? Well done Fernando on becoming the youngest ever world champion. And no I didn't watch it and yes it is still boring IMHO.
> 
> Rich did you go to the A1 at Brands? Anygood?
> 
> 
> 
> ←
> ​
Click to expand...









Yes, so boring it's probably the longest thread on the forum!

Congratulations to Fernando







Now, if Renault can just pip McLaren to the Constructor's title I'll be even happier









I'd have loved to have seen the A1 race but I was busy on a course (Computer Forensic Investigation







) so didn't have time to get tickets. I don't have Sky either so I couldn't watch it on TV. I've got a nice chart and guide that came with the Daily Telegraph so I'm going to try and follow it all on the A1 GP website.

Looks like Brazil got off to a good start (Nelson Piquet Jr. winning both the Sprint and Feature races), so, what with Montoya's win in F1 it's been a great day for the South Amercians!


----------



## Roger

Hare and the tortoise, I guess.

McLaren will get the constructors title
















Button going backwards again....makes you wonder why he stumped-up all that dosh for a drive in a car that will probably never be better than 4th best.....we will have a l.o.n.g wait B4 he gets a title


----------



## hakim

Yup, well done to Fernando. He deserves it.







Drove a very mature season.

Can't help but feel sorry for Kimi. He should have won the Championship if Mclaren didn't let him down.

Other than that the Brazilian GP was pretty boring


----------



## jasonm

Well Roger, looks like you were wrong, Renault got the double









Im pleased for them.

Its the end of another era for F1 now.

No more Jordan









No more Minardi









No more Sauber









No more V10s ( there will be some but rev limited)









Im allready looking forward to next year









My good friend Richie got me this great pressie from the China GP...

A double signed hat from the Ferrari drivers
















Apparently Rubens's signature is very hard to get as hes a grumpy bugger and hardly ever signs anything,


----------



## Roger

Yes...amazing that a company who make such dreadful cars, should get there???



> No more V10s ( there will be some but rev limited)


Deja Vu

Been down this road before when the authorities castrated rallying...

Sad to see Minardi go...had a secret respect for them

Bet Indianappolis will be well supported

The big winner must be Frank Williams........

gets shot of a second-rate driver and gets an (alleged) 20Mil as well...must be laughing all the way to the engine supplier


----------



## jasonm

> must be laughing all the way to the engine supplier


Yep...Cosworth...Which is where Richie will probably go to as 'engine track support' from Minardi next year.


----------



## JoT

I drove through Byfleet yesterday past one of the remaining sections of Brooklands; it was more exciting seeing the concrete banking than the whole of this years F1 drudge









http://www.brooklands.org.uk/Conservation/...rvationpic5.htm


----------



## PhilM

Sex on a cap is all I can say











jasonm said:


> Well Roger, looks like you were wrong, Renault got the double
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im pleased for them.
> 
> Its the end of another era for F1 now.
> 
> No more Jordan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No more Minardi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No more Sauber
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No more V10s ( there will be some but rev limited)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im allready looking forward to next year
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My good friend Richie got me this great pressie from the China GP...
> 
> A double signed hat from the Ferrari drivers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently Rubens's signature is very hard to get as hes a grumpy bugger and hardly ever signs anything,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ←
> ​


----------



## Roger

> Sex on a cap is all I can say


Michael or Reubens??? surely not the donkey??


----------



## pg tips

Has the season finished then?









I thought China was this w/end? Shows how well it's connecting with the public if I didn't even notice the last race!

Did one of the worst car manufactures actually win the constructors title then?









Good job they don't use the same ignition coils they use on their road cars, that's all I can say


----------



## PhilM

Roger said:


> Sex on a cap is all I can say
> 
> 
> 
> Michael or Reubens??? surely not the donkey??
> 
> 
> 
> ←
> ​
Click to expand...

 What I should of said is that cap is very nice


----------



## Griff

I'm glad Renault beat Ferrari in the constructors. Hope to see McLaren do it next time


----------



## rhaythorne

Griff said:



> I'm glad Renault beat Ferrari in the constructors. Hope to see McLaren do it next time


McLaren did beat Ferrari (who finished 3rd.) Or did you mean you hope to see McLaren win next year?

Nice cap Jason. A great souvenir as it's from Barrichello's last race for Ferrari.

The China race was not very interesting at all. Japan was great as the fastest cars started at the back. I think they should have points for qualifying but then reverse the starting order so the quick cars are towards the back of the grid.

I fell asleep watching Nascar last night. Now _that's_ boring


----------



## jasonm

Tyre changes during the race are coming back for '06


----------



## pg tips

Jason check out the membership list.

Look for members begining "Ru" (recently registered)

I think he's tracked you down an and wants his hat back!


----------



## mach 0.0013137

You were right about this thread being the longest running Paul, 20 months so far


----------



## jasonm

> I think he's tracked you down an and wants his hat back!












Ill swap him for a Schumacher Speedy









One of our office girls is Brazillian and we got talking about F1, of course Senna is revered in Brazil as a legend ( quite rightly) but apparently no one gives a monkeys chuff about Rubens as the public hated the way he 'sold out' at Ferrari and accepted being Schuies 'number 2' .......


----------



## jasonm

Michelin say they are retiring from F1 after next year, from 2007 there was only going to be 1 tyre supplier to all the teams anyway, looks like it will be Bridgestone now









And McLaren have nicked Ferraris main sponser Vodaphone for the new season too....That was worth 40 Million to Ferrari last year


----------



## JoT

The USA GP was the only bit of excitment in this year's series ..... pity Michelin are leaving









How's the A1 GP series going by the way? Is anybody following it?


----------



## rhaythorne

I've been following A1.

F1 critics who bemoaned Ferrari winning all the time in F1 may be amused to hear that France have won 9 out of the 12 A1 races so far. They really are very much faster than everyone else. As the cars are basically identical and the drivers change quite often, I guess it can only be down to a much better overall team performance and the drivers' ability to communicate to the mechanics how the set up needs to be altered for each track.

Several of the races have been excruciatingly boring, with the smallest of accidents resulting in the deployment of the safety car for much of the race! However, the last two races (Sepang and Dubai) have been absolutely superb, with wheel to wheel racing and lots of overtaking.

At the last race they adopted a new strategy of airlifting stranded cars off the circuit by helicopter instead of deploying the safety car which allows the racing to continue unabated.

There's a month long gap now before the next race in Indonesia.

Did anyone see the Grand Prix Masters race a few weeks ago? Mansell won, but Fittipaldi put him under pressure all the way to the flag. Good race


----------



## jasonm

*Key changes to the technical regulations for 2008*

* Introduction of the Centreline Downwash Generating (CDG) wing

Purpose: The split rear wing is designed to improve the airflow for following cars and thereby allow closer racing.

* Further bodywork changes to cut downforce and reduce the effect of â€˜dirty airâ€™

Purpose: To facilitate overtaking.

* Introduction of standard electronic control units (ECUs)

Purpose: To reduce costs and enable an enforceable ban on driver aids such as traction control.

* Engines to be subject to a 19,000rpm rev limit

Purpose: To reduce costs and to redirect research towards road-relevant technologies.

* A return to slick tyres and an increase in the maximum wheel diameter and width

Purpose: To compensate for reduced aerodynamic downforce with increased mechanical grip, thereby encouraging overtaking.

* Expensive new technologies which give a team an advantage and are subsequently adopted by other teams will be banned after one season

Purpose: To reduce costs. The aim is to allow a team that discovers a new technology to benefit from it, but prevent F1 as a whole then spending money on the same technology only to leave all the teams in the same relative positions as before.

* Drivers will be able to adjust tyre pressures while the car is moving

Purpose: To enhance safety, and specifically to prevent tyre pressures falling dangerously low during safety car periods.

* Cars' minimum weight will be reduced from 605kg to 550kg

Purpose: To eliminate ballast and the associated cost of purchasing and transporting 55kg of high-density materials.

* At least 5.75% of fuel must be from biological sources

Purpose: To keep ahead of developments in fuel for road cars.

From 2009, teams will be permitted to make only two changes of bodywork after the start of the season; and the FIA will allow the use of systems for energy storage and recovery (hybrid systems) subject to a cost assessment.

Proposed changes to the sporting regulations

In addition to the raft of new technical regulations, the FIA intends to make major changes to the sporting regulations for 2008.

These will be submitted to the World Motor Sport Council on 22 March 2006 and will include:

* Arrangements for a single tyre supplier in 2008

* Three-event engines

* Four-event transmissions

* Weight penalties for early replacement of engine or gearbox

* Testing restrictions

* A ban on spare cars

* A free market in the sale of chassis and components between participating teams

Sound like a radical change for F1 in 2008, my only concern is that technological advances in materials and the like are being reigned in, I believe this is what F1 should be about.....

Good to see slicks back though







Now what about those turbos


----------



## rhaythorne

I'm not sure I approve of the split rear wing. It seems just as daft as the ridged tyres which are thankfully on the way out!

I don't quite understand the 19,000 RPM rev limit either. Surely the continued development of components that can reliably withstand high revs is entirely "road-relevant".

A ban on spare cars could prove interesting. Unfortunately it might also encourage a bit of gamesmanship between rivals, especially towards the end of the season if the points are very close.


----------



## jasonm

> I'm not sure I approve of the split rear wing. It seems just as daft as the ridged tyres which are thankfully on the way out!
> 
> I don't quite understand the 19,000 RPM rev limit either. Surely the continued development of components that can reliably withstand high revs is entirely "road-relevant".


Im with you on this... There wasnt any problem with 'dirty air' in the past, it was only when they messed with the nose element height that they got problems, they have given them more mechanical grip on one hand ( slicks) then taken it away again with the split wing...Daft......


----------



## pg tips

jasonm said:


> *Key changes to the technical regulations for 2008*
> 
> 
> 
> *←*
> ​


----------



## jasonm




----------



## JoT

Isn't F1 past its sell-by date?

It is all very clever and very technical .... but what about the racing?

I much prefer Indy and Champ and we have a British champion in Dan Wheldon


----------



## jasonm

First race of the season kicks off on Sunday from Barhain









Coverage starts 10.30 am ITV

Should be a good season apart from the V8s







mind you they are allready allmost as quick as the V10s at some testing tracks









Tyre changes are back too...My friend Richie has joined Midland from Minardi ( Torro Rosso ) and will be the rear jack man, keep an eye out


----------



## hakim

Right on Jason. Can't wait for F1 to start too. Has been a terribly boring winter break without F1









I even managed to get a TV installed at the office so now no excuse to miss out on practices and qualifying


----------



## rhaythorne

Jason said:



> My friend Richie has joined Midland from Minardi ( Torro Rosso )


Will you need to get him a new RLT19?


----------



## PhilM

Well that was an interesting qualifying round for sure







Initially looking at the new rules I have to say that I was a bit confused







but all is clear now.

Great to see Schuey on the pole again and also equals Senna' record of 65 pole positions


----------



## pg tips

Well turned on for the last 15 mins and what a shocker!

In fact you could say the biggest upset to hit F1 in years!

I would never have believed it would happen!























Steve "Mr. BBC" Ryder has defected to ITV!


----------



## PhilM

pg tips said:


> Steve "Mr. BBC" Ryder has defected to ITV!


When I first saw that I thought ITV must have turned around and put the camera on the wrong man







only then when I looked at the microphone I saw ITV as well


----------



## USEDMODEL

hakim said:


> Right on Jason. Can't wait for F1 to start too. Has been a terribly boring winter break without F1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I even managed to get a TV installed at the office so now no excuse to miss out on practices and qualifying


Now that is what I call dedication Hakim.

Wish I had an office to install a TV in


----------



## JoT

PhilM said:


> pg tips said:
> 
> 
> 
> Steve "Mr. BBC" Ryder has defected to ITV!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I first saw that I thought ITV must have turned around and put the camera on the wrong man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> only then when I looked at the microphone I saw ITV as well
Click to expand...

Probably a wise move by Ryder .... he isn't gay, female or an ethnic minority







have you noticed since a certain female presenter "came out" she hasn't been off our screens?

Anyway .... the qualifying .... I haven't figured it out yet







.... someone please explain


----------



## pg tips

JoT said:


> .... someone please explain


It's easy John, Schuey is back on pole, all normality after last year has been restored







I'm sure the whole season will be geared around Mr Shoemaker winning yet again


----------



## Roger

> have you noticed since a certain female presenter "came out" she hasn't been off our screens?


Give me clue on that one JoT...I missed that some where

I used to follow F1, regularly attending....lost interest when Jackie Stewart packed it in...he was a driver a greatly admire.

I dont like the admin of F1....it could be heading for castration, just like Rallying.....hope not, dont want to see them all trooping round in Formula Fords!









Roger


----------



## JoT

OK all you F1 buffs .... I have been waiting at home to day for something to be delivered (you know the usual "it will be with you between 9am and 6pm" routine) so I decided to watch the Bahrain F1 GP.










Except for Massa's spin and Schumacher's exit from his second pit-stop ...... it was so tedious









Come on guys explain to me why this F1 circus is supposed to be so special?


----------



## Roger

John...

it would probably be more interesting to know _IF_ the delivery turned-up!









Roger


----------



## rhaythorne

What's wrong with you people? Are you sure you were watching the right race?







I thought it was an excellent start to the season with Alonso and Schumacher duelling for pretty much the entire race and especially newcomer Rosberg putting in an amazing debut performance.

It was much more interesting than the A1 race from the Laguna Seca circuit which was on last night, although that too had its moments. France have won that championship now, although Britain's looking pretty strong in third place.


----------



## pg tips

interesting use of the word dueling. One car following another, the one in front slightly faster so getting further away, then you have a pit stop and they bunch up again until the 2nd stop when the one who was 2nd goes in front and slowly pulls away from the other







So in effect the guys in the reno pit won the race in approx 7.5 seconds.

Why don't they just do a televised pitstop championships and forget all this driving round in circles milarkie?









Seriously though there was some good racing in places, Kimi was superb and Jenson had his moments, I can only really get excited when watching F1 though if I only watch the highlights show, a bit like most sports really, it's only worth watching the good bits and an edited highlights show lets you do that


----------



## rhaythorne

Bloomin' philistines









PG said:



> interesting use of the word dueling


Not really, I think it's entirely appropriate









Anyway, each to their own I suppose. If you prefer to watch a bunch of guys stand around for the best part of a week whalloping a leather ball about with a lump of wood (cricket), or another bunch of guys kicking a pig's bladder around a field (football), or a bunch of big, hairy guys mud wrestling (rugby), that's entirely up to you


----------



## jasonm

rhaythorne said:


> Bloomin' philistines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> interesting use of the word dueling
> 
> 
> 
> Not really, I think it's entirely appropriate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, each to their own I suppose. If you prefer to watch a bunch of guys stand around for the best part of a week whalloping a leather ball about with a lump of wood (cricket), or another bunch of guys kicking a pig's bladder around a field (football), or a bunch of big, hairy guys mud wrestling (rugby), that's entirely up to you
Click to expand...


















Well said that man!!!!









Best race for ages, great stuff 

Hopefully a 3 way contest this year, good idea about a new 19 Rich


----------



## Roger

I think they should re-introduce the "travelling mechanic" as in the early days...might relieve the boredom a bit.

57 laps......5 seconds of "action" when schumaker & alonso were wheel to wheel.......oh! and I almost forgot...one team got a drive thru for not getting the mechanics off the grid in time!!!

Cant understand why I didnt sleep thru it all....I suppose I was hoping for some racing?

Kimi did best, but they didnt show much of it.......

Lets hope for some racing next time?


----------



## JoT

Now F1 cars at Brooklands ..... that would be something









Maybe F1 should go back to straight-8 engines on banked circuits


----------



## Roger

> Now F1 cars at Brooklands ..... that would be something


Too right John.......

getting a bit tired of this " Ohhhhh there might be a little bit of sand on the track....we must slow down for that...."

Sort the men from the boys









Incidentally...down here in this part of the country...near Buttons home town........he has aquired the nickname of "backwards Button"...after his usual start performances.

Roger


----------



## JoT

Roger said:


> Now F1 cars at Brooklands ..... that would be something
> 
> 
> 
> Too right John.......
> 
> getting a bit tired of this " Ohhhhh there might be a little bit of sand on the track....we must slow down for that...."
> 
> Sort the men from the boys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Incidentally...down here in this part of the country...near Buttons home town........he has aquired the nickname of "backwards Button"...after his usual start performances.
> 
> Roger
Click to expand...

In its day the speeds at Brooklands must have been something else .... the 1933 Napier Railton lapped Brooklands at 143mph







its a good day out at the museum at Brooklands although the area is a bit of a mess these days with supermarkets etc


----------



## Roger

> 1933 Napier Railton lapped Brooklands at 143mph


Real skill.......best part of 2 tons...crossply tyres...cork crash-hat, hanigng on for all they were worth...no pit radio saying "press the blue button and put half a turn on the brake bias".....you just have to be in awe of the bravery and all for a lot less than $15M per annum!!


----------



## pg tips

jasonm said:


> Best race for ages, great stuff


I though you were sh****g in the lakes this weekend, how come you saw the race


----------



## jasonm

Come on Paul, its all about priorities....









I did miss the qualifying on Saturday though









Had a nice time actually ( to my surprise







too many kids around though







)


----------



## JoT

Race? You must be joking ....







:lazy2:


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## jasonm

Had me on the edge of the sofa......

Stunning driving.....

Very exciting....










O all right, it was vey average


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## JoT

jasonm said:


> Had me on the edge of the sofa......
> 
> Stunning driving.....
> 
> Very exciting....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> O all right, it was vey average


Jase I don't understand why teams are penalised if their engines blow up in practice .... we were left with the two Ferrari's and others starting from positions well down the grid. I just get a feeling that the racing aspect of F1 has become secondary









The F1 authorities are trying to "engineer" closer racing ..... maybe I am so anti because it reminds me too much of New Labour


----------



## jasonm

JoT said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Had me on the edge of the sofa......
> 
> Stunning driving.....
> 
> Very exciting....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> O all right, it was vey average
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jase I don't understand why teams are penalised if their engines blow up in practice .... we were left with the two Ferrari's and others starting from positions well down the grid. I just get a feeling that the racing aspect of F1 has become secondary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The F1 authorities are trying to "engineer" closer racing ..... maybe I am so anti because it reminds me too much of New Labour
Click to expand...

Its supposedly a cost saving measure John, to save costs the engines are regulated to last 2 races, ( they cost Â£300K + each







) this is supposed to stop super powerfull '1 race then its scrap' engines, or even 1 qualifying session,therefore there needed to be a penalty imposed if teams decided to swap them prior to a race....

F1 should be a sport where technological boundaries are pushed to the limits, not artificially held back









Fastest car shaped thing on 4 wheels, no rules racing, thats what we need, no restrictions









Bernie did bung Labour a cheeky Mil a few years back, so there is connection, so will it be Sir Bernie soon?


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> JoT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Had me on the edge of the sofa......
> 
> Stunning driving.....
> 
> Very exciting....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> O all right, it was vey average
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jase I don't understand why teams are penalised if their engines blow up in practice .... we were left with the two Ferrari's and others starting from positions well down the grid. I just get a feeling that the racing aspect of F1 has become secondary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The F1 authorities are trying to "engineer" closer racing ..... maybe I am so anti because it reminds me too much of New Labour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its supposedly a cost saving measure John, to save costs the engines are regulated to last 2 races, ( they cost Â£300K + each
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) this is supposed to stop super powerfull '1 race then its scrap' engines, or even 1 qualifying session,therefore there needed to be a penalty imposed if teams decided to swap them prior to a race....
> 
> F1 should be a sport where technological boundaries are pushed to the limits, not artificially held back
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fastest car shaped thing on 4 wheels, no rules racing, thats what we need, no restrictions
Click to expand...

I agree Jase ... set a limited number of rules such as engine cc and chassis safety requirements and let rip!


----------



## hakim

Actually I think the "one engine, 2 races" rule really sucks









In the end the driver gets punished even more now because of these new engines that are not matured enough to give pace AND reliability. I think the best solution would be one engine per race i.e. each team is allowed to change a brand new engine per race which must be used for qualifying and race. If during the race weekend the engine conks out then a 10 grid penalty be applied.

This way the driver gets a fairer chance of his proper grid place (not have Raikonen at the end of the field with the Midlands














) and will also give the chance for the engines to be sorted during the course of the year. Having Schumi start at the middle of the grid after putting is a stunning qualifying lap just defys logic to me.


----------



## jasonm

I trust everyone will be getting up to watch the Aussie Grand Prix live here in the UK at 0430?

Its going to be a great race..... Like all of them I tell you!!!


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> I trust everyone will be getting up to watch the Aussie Grand Prix live here in the UK at 0430?
> 
> Its going to be a great race..... Like all of them I tell you!!!


Thanks Jase I will set the alarm


----------



## Mothman

If it looks like Jensen's in with a shout then I might be tempted, otherwise i'll stay in my pit







and watch the midday re-run.

Richard


----------



## Mothman

S**T, loks like I'd better set the alarm Jansen's on pole


----------



## jasonm

By 4/10ths too!!


----------



## JoT

By the time he pulls away from the grid at the start he will be 4th or 5th place


----------



## pg tips

A bit optimistic as ever John!









Err No Jase I wont be getting up that early however STMBO has deemed we ar doing a "boot" tomorrow so I'll br up at 5:30 anyway so I'll catch some of it live.


----------



## rhaythorne

I was watching the qualifying live at 03:30 this morning so I'll certainly be watching the race live too. And when that's finished I'll flip over to Sky to watch the remainder of the last A1GP race of the season in Shanghai







Coverage of this starts at 06:00.


----------



## JoT

pg tips said:


> A bit optimistic as ever John!


I hope Button does well, but he does seem to be very slow off the grid at the start.


----------



## Roger

Gentlemen,

It is now 01:05 2nd April.....

My predictions before the start:--

1/ Jensen (backwards) Button......P3 by the start of Lap 2

2/ I will fall asleep by lap 10, after all....the regulatory authorities would want to ruin it with some racing, would they?

PS when is the next televised British Superbike Meeting? should bve some racing there!


----------



## rhaythorne

Hope you didn't fall asleep Roger as you'll have missed a good one


----------



## hakim

Just finished watching the race. Great race!









But what were Honda/BAR thinking about by stopping Jenson crossing the line














I would have

grabbed those 3 points within reach and figure out the next race when it came! I was on the edge of my seat willing him to cross the finish line especially after the miserable race he had









Alonso star is really shinning at the moment and that Schumacher Sr. accident really caught my by surprise. Very not like him.


----------



## jasonm

Just finished watching it myself









Fantastic race!!!!!!!!

Hakim, it means they dont take a penalty next race in Imola, he could of crossed the line but was told not to....


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> Hakim, it means they dont take a penalty next race in Imola, he could of crossed the line but was told not to....










Eh??????

So if your engine blows up and you don't cross the line you don't get a penalty? But if the engine blows up and you do cross you get a penalty


----------



## rhaythorne

If you finish the race and then change the engine for the next round, yes, it's a penalty. In this case it was a spectacular blow-up, but supposing there had been a smaller, technical glitch requiring an engine change? Where would the organisers draw the line as to when a penalty is applied and when it isn't? The rule simply has to be that if you finish the race on one engine then you can't change it for the next race - even if it was on fire as you crossed the line









I agree with Hakim though, they should've taken the points for this race and worried about the ten place penalty for the next grid by adopting a suitable strategy for the next race.


----------



## rhaythorne

Here you go. Article 87 of the _2006 Formula One Sporting Regulations_











> a ) Each driver may use no more than one engine for two consecutive Events in which his team competes. Should a driver use a replacement engine before the end of the qualifying practice session he will drop ten places on the starting grid at that Event each time a further engine is used. Unless the driver fails to finish the race (see below) the engine fitted to the car at the end of the Event must remain in it until the end of the next. Any driver who failed to finish the race at the first of the two Events for reasons beyond the control of the team or driver, may start the second with a different engine without a penalty being incurred.
> 
> b ) If a driver is replaced after the first of a two Event period, having finished the first Event, the replacement driver must use the engine which was used for the first Event.
> 
> c ) Should a driver use a replacement engine after the qualifying practice session at either of the two Events, he will be required to start the relevant race from the back of the starting grid in accordance with Article 130.
> 
> d ) After consultation with the relevant engine supplier the FIA will attach seals to each engine in order to ensure that no significant moving parts can be rebuilt or replaced.
> 
> Following the first of the two Events, and within two hours of the end of the post race parc fermÃ©, further seals will be applied in order to ensure that the engine cannot be run until the second Event. These seals will be removed at 09.00 on the day of initial scrutineering at the second Event.
> 
> e ) Other than the straightforward replacement of one engine unit with another, a change will also be deemed to have taken place if any of the FIA seals are damaged or removed from the original engine after it has been used for the first time.


----------



## Roger

> Hope you didn't fall asleep Roger as you'll have missed a good one


Managed to keep one eye open.....some interesting incidents, I must admit....I felt sure Button would go backwards.

Can we now assume that Messers Schumacher Snr & Massa are now the "B" team to RBR?


----------



## JoT

rhaythorne said:


> Here you go. Article 87 of the _2006 Formula One Sporting Regulations_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a ) Each driver may use no more than one engine for two consecutive Events in which his team competes. Should a driver use a replacement engine before the end of the qualifying practice session he will drop ten places on the starting grid at that Event each time a further engine is used. Unless the driver fails to finish the race (see below) the engine fitted to the car at the end of the Event must remain in it until the end of the next. Any driver who failed to finish the race at the first of the two Events for reasons beyond the control of the team or driver, may start the second with a different engine without a penalty being incurred.
> 
> b ) If a driver is replaced after the first of a two Event period, having finished the first Event, the replacement driver must use the engine which was used for the first Event.
> 
> c ) Should a driver use a replacement engine after the qualifying practice session at either of the two Events, he will be required to start the relevant race from the back of the starting grid in accordance with Article 130.
> 
> d ) After consultation with the relevant engine supplier the FIA will attach seals to each engine in order to ensure that no significant moving parts can be rebuilt or replaced.
> 
> Following the first of the two Events, and within two hours of the end of the post race parc fermÃ©, further seals will be applied in order to ensure that the engine cannot be run until the second Event. These seals will be removed at 09.00 on the day of initial scrutineering at the second Event.
> 
> e ) Other than the straightforward replacement of one engine unit with another, a change will also be deemed to have taken place if any of the FIA seals are damaged or removed from the original engine after it has been used for the first time.
Click to expand...

Thanks Rich


----------



## JoT

Honda's chief mechanic has a new job


----------



## jasonm

I listened to the last half hour on 5 live ( why the flip dont they put that on FM?) so dont know what that is refering to but I can guess









Great result and Im looking forward to watching it later


----------



## Roger

> why the flip dont they put that on FM?)


Jase,

its on DAB.....i heartily recommend it...even though I had to spend 30 minutes builing a home-made outside antenna


----------



## PhilM

JoT said:


> Honda's chief mechanic has a new job

















Whoops does spring to mind







Good to see Schuey win again after 18 months


----------



## rhaythorne

JoT said:


> Honda's chief mechanic has a new job










:lol:

Yep, you can't blame Button; the "lollipop" _was_ lifted before he dragged his crew down the pit lane







No doubt there'll be a frank exchange of views in the Honda camp this evening!

What happened to Barrichello? If he can't do well at Imola what chance does he have anywhere else? He just cost me a fiver against Massa









Congratulations to Schumi though







Another record broken (number of pole positions) and another win to keep the 2006 championship alive


----------



## pg tips

Well I watched the "High" lights last night

err yeah as my daughter would say whadever

Apart from a car on it's roof and Jensen going down the pit lane with the nozzel still attached did anything else exciting happen?

Oh yeah Michael's tyres went a bit funny







but no one can overtake at Imola anyway and Renault cocked up their strategy







:yawn: Oh Hum

I'm sorry but what I want from motor sport is a load of cars all bunched up and people actually overtaking each other, you know when one car passes another whilst out on the track racing.

Certainly was not worth satying awake for.


----------



## hakim

I thought it was a fantastic race







with extra bits of entertainment thrown in...car flip and nozzle drag







. Surprisingly though, I was really willing on Schuey to win. Never thought I'd one day be a die hard fan of his









Was very impressed at Alonso not overtaking Shuey in the final celebratory lap after the race and actually followed the Ferrari slowly to the pits. In other races you'd see the second or third finisher arrive park ferme before the winning car. Just a mark of respect that I admire from Alonso and shows his maturity.









Was dissapointed at the Mclarens performance though. Eagerly waiting for exciting things to materialize from that camp!


----------



## jasonm

> Was dissapointed at the Mclarens performance though. Eagerly waiting for exciting things to materialize from that camp!


They keep promising ( their sponsers  )







they have been doing that since 1999!


----------



## mach 0.0013137

FrankC said:


> I'd BAN All Sport Off TV
> 
> They are just a load of over payed tossers especially the footballers
> 
> Grumpy old man !


I totally agree with the above statement









Another Grumpy old man!


----------



## PhilM

jasonm said:


> They keep promising ( their sponsers  )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they have been doing that since 1999!


Thats a bit harsh







It's not always down to Ron Dennis


----------



## jasonm

> Prodrive has been selected as the 12th team for the 2008 Formula 1 world championship, the FIA has confirmed.


Good







I hope Dave Richards whups BARs Arse









(doubt it though)


----------



## jasonm

Well done Shuie and Ferrari


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> Well done Shuie and Ferrari


I watched it all the way through


----------



## pg tips

JoT said:


> I watched it all the way through


Me too John, that's 2 hours I'll never get back









WTF happened to Jensen, I thought Hondas were reliable


----------



## Roger

For Sale:-

1 Honda F1 racing car....rarely raced...slight fault, has a tendancy to slip backwards...one careful driver.

Apply to Mr J Button....

Oh the tedium of that (non) race....I'm really glad I recorded the World Superbioke at Monza...at last some REAL racing.....


----------



## JoT

Naughty naughty Schumacher









A blatant and deliberate move IMO


----------



## jasonm

I call it 'thinking outside the box'









Diddnt work out though









Seriously, a bit bad form if it really was deliberate, hard to see how they thought they would get away with it if thats the case


----------



## Roger

I have a sneaking feeling that it may not have been Schus idea.......

Just like earlier times with the "prancing Donkey" falling back into its old ways


----------



## rhaythorne

I don't think it was intentional at all, despite what Mark Blundell and Jackie Stewart might say. What do they know anyway?























In my view, Schumi clearly tried something different on his final qualifying lap in order to secure Pole that didn't quite work out. He enters the last corner at the wrong angle and has to straighten the car out to avoid clipping the barrier on the inside. He can then be clearly seen turning right at full lock and then struggling some more to try and make the last corner but there's just not enough room left to make the corner. The car stalls...

...but, just because it's Michael Schumacher, it must have been deliberate so they penalise him







If they'd penalised him simply for ruining some other people's final qualifying laps but without the "blame culture" thing going on that would have been more acceptable in my opinion 

He still did well in the final result though didn't he









I so narrowly lost a Â£5 bet: Webber to beat Raikkonen


----------



## MarkF

rhaythorne said:


> In my view, Schumi clearly tried something different on his final qualifying lap in order to secure Pole that didn't quite work out.


He certainly did. Failing (badly) to fool everyone was the "didn't quite work out" bit. Have you been drinking?


----------



## rhaythorne

MarkF said:



> Have you been drinking?


No!

Well, maybe I've had one or two...

...or three, or eleven... or

...Oh alright, I'm pissed
















I still say it was a simple mistake. It's clear to me (at least) from the video footage that he tries to avoid running into the wall and blocking the track. He has a full right lock on but just can't make the corner. Exactly how or why the car stalled I don't know, but, I bet if it was anybody else, the stewards would have just let it go.

Anyway, it's all "water under the bridge" now, so to speak 

Seems I've won tickets for the Brtish GP courtesy of Renault_sport_







All I have to do now is figure out how I'm going to get there seeing as my car's been taken off the road for the next few weeks by some _[enter expletive of your own choice]_ with no insurance/licence (see another thread)


----------



## jasonm

Get a train to Huntingdon Rich and I'll drive from there









Did you win 2 tickets?


----------



## JoT

BUTTON


----------



## jasonm

Poor buggers got shit luck latley


----------



## Roger

> Poor buggers got **** luck latley


Partly a team cock-up this time methinks


----------



## hakim

Personally, I think very poor team management.

Like stopping the car on a previous race just before the finish line just to conserve the engine. Big mistake. I think in Formula 1 you should take all the points coming to you NOW and not wait for the BIG one!









Poor Jense,














not his fault. Such cock-ups would never have happenned if Dave Richards was still running the team!


----------



## pg tips

JoT said:


> BUTTON



















As some of you know my mrs has a Jazz, I was in the dealers last week for it's MOT and they had Jensen shirts and hats in the sales cabinets which I was perusing.

The sales guy came up to me and said "If I were you I'd wait a couple more weeks, the way the season is going we'll be reducing them soon"


----------



## jasonm

As Ive posted elsewhere, I went to Silverstone today to watch the Grand Prix, I wont claim it was the most exciting of races but the atmosphere was fantastic, thoroughly enjoyed myself, very hot though, and Dave ( my driver for the day







) and I walked 1 and a half times round the circuit to get to places we wanted to go, not fun with a helmet, big bike jacket and rucksack









The journey out was fun as we weaved through the stationary traffic carefully....

Big big thanks to Rich (rhaythorne) as he very generously gave me a pair of tickets for the day, we swapped messages but unfortunatly we couldnt meet up..









Thanks Rich


----------



## JoT

Probably the best way to get there







I see Button's weekend went from bad to worse


----------



## Boxbrownie

jasonm said:


> As Ive posted elsewhere, I went to Silverstone today to watch the Grand Prix, I wont claim it was the most exciting of races but the atmosphere was fantastic, thoroughly enjoyed myself, very hot though, and Dave ( my driver for the day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and I walked 1 and a half times round the circuit to get to places we wanted to go, not fun with a helmet, big bike jacket and rucksack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The journey out was fun as we weaved through the stationary traffic carefully....
> 
> Big big thanks to Rich (rhaythorne) as he very generously gave me a pair of tickets for the day, we swapped messages but unfortunatly we couldnt meet up..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Rich


Nah......I had the best time there.....well almost there.......spent the day in my mates garden just a few miles from Silverstone......all weekend.......sitting in and out the sun, drinking, eating BBQ, chatting and generally moaning about the noisy helicopters flying overhead......I used to love F1......but now......I'd rather be sitting, drinking, eating and chatting









Best regards David (old fart)


----------



## rhaythorne

Indeed it was a good day out, although very long. I left for Silverstone at 04:30 and didn't get home until 19:00!! Pity I didn't manage to meet up with Jason. When I got his last message on my mobile he was indoors and I was still stuck in traffic on the A43 80 odd miles from home







I think I might try the Fireblade approach next time









The F1 GP was not the best I've seen and even the Porsche Supercup race failed to deliver much excitement.

However, The Red Arrows were superb. I've seen them loads of times before but this time they did some aerobatic manoeuvres I'd not seen on previous occasions that were spectacular to say the least.

The GP2 race was interesting as I'd not seen this formula before. They seem almost as fast (and loud) as the F1 cars. Several of the drivers also compete in A1GP.

Best race was the last one of the day which featured various makes and models of historic sports cars from the 60's and 70's: AC Cobras, Lolas, Chevrons and GT40's to name a few


----------



## oldfogey

Not Formula 1, so off thread, but off to Le Mans on Friday for a long weekend on the bike. 24 hours of racing for Â£60 ticket (plus hotel, Eurotunnel, meals, speeding fines, etc). I switched from British GP to Le Mans as my annual motoring pilgrimage many years ago and have never regretted it!


----------



## JonW

One of my mates was a marshall (between abbey/club) and has been looking forward to marshalling at an F1 event for years. no word yet form him as to what he thought of the day but I expect he enjoyed himself, he was probaly closer to the cars than almost everyone else!









Shame the race was a bit poor, but it did look like the cars were fast when watching on the telly. I went to a practice day there once back in 96 and the cars seemed to be much slower then.


----------



## Roger

I,ve been a big fan of F! for years...from the time Jackie Stewart was at his peak (still the Driver I admire the most)....Sundays BGP was a real letdown...the atmosphere may have been great, but what has happened to the much-promised "closer racing"?.....did anyone really race anyone on Sunday? These days, the pit stops seem to be where the "action" happens.

I am getting very, very disalusioned with F1, especiall as, this last week, we had such spectacular action from the IOM TT.

I reckon I am going back to my roots...finding the TT, BSB Championship, etc to be far more interesting, even the Moto GP CAN be good at times.

Come on F1...liven it up a bit, please.

Roger


----------



## ericp

Try MotoGP..

Last Weekends race was one of the finest motorsport events I have ever seen.

Massive amounts of excitement, overtaking, supreme skill, and respect for each other demonstrated by the riders.

First Class.

Proper characters too.


----------



## rhaythorne

Sod it! I'd bet on Villeneuve to beat Trulli









Good race so far though.


----------



## jasonm

I bet Ron will be extra rough with Reiki in the showers later









DC had a good race though...


----------



## Roger

Panic measures in the Honda management....stability has gone....wont end well IMHO


----------



## Alas

Loved the comment from DC's team to "Go on - take him" as he came up behind Button. Excellent manouvere to do it too


----------



## TimD

What a waste of time that was. MotoGP from Assen was an absolute belter, Superbikes was good too.

Cheers,

Tim.


----------



## hakim

Fantastic race and I loved seeing the driver reactions to the rubber marbels all over the track!







Thats exactly what I want to see in F1. Sod the traction control and lets see proper driver control.

Its not only BAR struggling. Toyota with Trulli and Ralf had a lousy race, though someone at Toyota should have stopped Ralf with the car in the condition it was in









I think Kimi should just sign up for Renault immediatly and put off going to Ferrari for now. That car would suit him perfectly too!


----------



## Steve264

Iâ€™ve had more than a few drinks, so apologies for what will undoubtedly piss off at least one reader. I havenâ€™t read back through all the previous posts, so I also apologise if I duplicate opinions or whatever....

My thoughts on F1, as a fan since Jackie Stewart was the main man and I was a little boy:

1.	The best F1 driver was, is and will always be Ayrton Senna. If you donâ€™t accept that, you are not a racing fan.

2.	The best 90 seconds of motor racing were the first lap at Donington in â€™93. If you werenâ€™t there, you canâ€™t contradict. Senna simply made fools of the entire rest of the field. The rest of the race was Ayrton grinding Prostâ€™s face in the dirt, as the â€œprofessorâ€ minced in and out of the pits while Senna got on with driving like a formula 1 champion.

3.	The worst day ever was Imola 1994. Made worse by happening in the middle of my daughterâ€™s 2nd birthday party. Daddy crying is not a great treat when youâ€™re a small one.

4.	Michael would today be the proud owner of the record number of 2nd places in F1 world championships if Ayrton hadnâ€™t died. This would have been no shaming achievement.

5.	Michael is a cheating *******.

6.	Mansell was a boring, utilitarian driver at best. Never a champion in the true F1 sense of the word. His greatest achievement was winning his first Ferrari race â€" that did impress me.

7.	F1 has been a predominately boring procession for the last decade.

8.	Pit stops are crippling F1. Why do we need to spend more time focussing on the mechanics doing a fill-up than on the race? See previous point.

9.	ITV is crippling F1. This company has no understanding of the sport, no interest in the sport, no interest in the (F1 enthusiast) audience at all. The only thing ITV cares about is the value of the advertising breaks.

10.	Advert breaks suck ass. Cutting into the racing with commercial breaks indicates that ITV think the racing is uninteresting (so wtf is anyone watching?) â€" they wouldnâ€™t dream of cutting into the FA cup final with 2 minutes of some tool singing a song on Hondaâ€™s behalf.

11.	ITV F1 coverage is trashy and cheap â€" they donâ€™t even have a studio at the venues any more, they stand around like dicks in the â€œVIP areaâ€ trying to be heard above the background row. Theyâ€™ve replaced the parrot-faced know-nothing with the smarmy blow-dried know-nothing and it is still *****. At least Tony Jardine has been booted finally, but they still retain Mark â€œMr Charismaâ€ Blundell. <pines for Murray and Shunt>

12.	Ralf is a deadbeat and should have been booted from F1 5 years ago.

13.	Jenson will be a champion. When he gets a car.

14.	Alonso is the best today and really I canâ€™t see Raikonnen beating him.

15.	JPM is probably the most gifted driver of today, but heâ€™s inconsistent and he canâ€™t do the F1 smooth style needed these days â€" if he was in F1 25 years ago he would be winning race after race.

16.	Slick tyres are racing tyres. Anything else is messing up our racing.

17.	Electronic gear changes etc are unnecessary. Real drivers donâ€™t need that. Itâ€™s a corporate (i.e. financially driven by marketing depts of sponsor companies) pressure to drive without mistakes. Missed gears etc are what make motor racing interesting.

18.	Monaco is the best circuit. The new â€œsafeâ€ circuits are predominately uninteresting.

19.	Message to Messrs Allen and Brundle : the word â€œsixthâ€ has a â€œsâ€ sound just after the â€œkâ€ sound. It is not â€œsikthâ€ and should not be pronounced so.

20.	Qualifying is supposed to demonstrate which team/driver has the fastest car. Fannying around with varying quantities of fuel on board doesnâ€™t achieve anything convincing and will result in accidents at some point.


----------



## hakim

Interesting points you have there Steve264









But I do want to mention that we get the ITV coverage via the main South African satelite channels DSTS and "Super Sports" and the coverage it great! No commercial breaks and the commentators do a great job. Especially like Martin Brundles coverage.


----------



## jasonm

I agree with all but 2 of your 'points'









Great post Steve!!!


----------



## in_denial

jasonm said:


> I agree with all but 2 of your 'points'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great post Steve!!!


Yeah, me too...

I'd disagree about Ayrton being the greatest; maybe of the modern era, but Messrs Clark and Fangio (amongst others) would be in with a shout.

And Mansell boring? In the car he was a racer, much like Senna; I seem to remember a superb overtake pulled in Hungary '89 when Mansell won from 12th on the grid. He was only boring when pulling away from the pack in a superior car, and so was Senna in the same situation.









... and 13. I just don't think he's going to get the car; he has missed the boat - F1 is all about youth these days. That McLaren F2 driver Wossname will be the next English F1WC


----------



## chrisb

2. best 90 secs in motor racing.....1974 Race of Champions Jacky Ickx, in the wet overtaking two cars on the outside on the last corner of the last but one lap (I think). The original "RainMaster"










He's in the JPS at the back, at the start of the manoeuvre

(Nos. 7 & 5 are being lapped)


----------



## jasonm

Indy GP....

Loved it!!









Excellent result 

Come on Ferrari!!


----------



## rhaythorne

Well said that man









But for a while I thought we might end up with only as many cars as last year


----------



## Alas

Frightening car crash - especially the 3 times flip







. Was a procession for Ferrari and I don't think Schuey would have won if it wasn't for team orders


----------



## hakim

Great race!

Been a long time since I've seen Shumi genuinely happy!









Pity about the Mclarens though. Would have been nice to see them mixing in the race too


----------



## jasonm

Thinking about it though, the result just shows up how much this is still a 'tyre championship'









Michelin played it safe with its Indy tyre and paid the price......


----------



## jasonm

> Bridgestone has been selected as Formula 1's exclusive tyre supplier for the 2008, 2009 and 2010 seasons.
> 
> The Japanese company was always likely to secure the contract once Michelin made it clear it would not tender a bid because it opposed the move to a single tyre supplier, and would be withdrawing from F1 at the end of 2006.
> 
> The decision was rubber-stamped at a meeting of the FIA World Motor Sport Council in Paris on Wednesday.
> 
> The WMSC also announced that Microsoft MES will be the official supplier of ECUs (electronic control units) to F1 over the same three-year period.
> 
> Engine management software is being standardised because the FIA believes it is the only way to ensure an enforceable ban on traction control.
> 
> In addition, the World Council agreed to consult with F1â€™s Technical Working Group to devise ways of reducing cornering speeds, which have risen sharply this year due to advances in aerodynamics and tyre technology.


On balance I think this is a good thing regarding tyres, only because they were so regulated anyway, it would be a different story if was anything gos slicks again 

No tyre excuses now....

(Except Ferrari has had the benifit of having had Bridgestones undivided attention for so long)


----------



## MarkF

F1 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz







Why cant it be like NASCAR?

I saw Silverstone yesterday, I was trying to find a place called Helmdon and took a turn before I should have off the motorway and got hopelessly lost







A few nice country lanes later and out it popped, I was most surpised, I don't even recall seeing a sign for it.


----------



## jasonm

Well, it wasnt a very thrilling race but it looks like Ferrari have made real progress, I thought Indy was a one off but it seems they have found some real pace









Poor Jensens season isnt getting any better


----------



## Steve264

jasonm said:


> Well, it wasnt a very thrilling race but it looks like Ferrari have made real progress, I thought Indy was a one off but it seems they have found some real pace
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poor Jensens season isnt getting any better


The racing season starts here....


----------



## MarkF

jasonm said:


> Well, it wasnt a very thrilling race


Oh really? You do surprise me.









I watched some motorcycle race in the afternoon, I don't now what it was but it was thrilling. They OVERTOOK one and other


----------



## JoT

The race was over at the first corner when Alonso couldn't get past Massa


----------



## rhaythorne

Well _I_ enjoyed it. There was lots of close racing further down the field.


----------



## JoT

rhaythorne said:


> Well _I_ enjoyed it. There was lots of close racing further down the field.


There always is at the back


----------



## TimD

Yet again MotoGP showed the world what true racing is. Rossi fought his way from 10th on the grid to win, imagine somebody playing chess with a 250BHP motorbike









The Grand Prix was another foregone conclusion, I turned off the the telly and sat in the garden reading a book because the racing was so dull.

Cheers,

Tim.


----------



## Roger

Another rather boring F1 GP...really glad I recorded the BSB from Knockhill and the BTCC from Croft...some real racing at least...unlike Magny Cour. I sometimes admire the ITV F1 commentary team..they really do believe that its interesting all of the time.

One final thought........Honda has been shelling-out on a massive advert campaign with some guy riding/sailing/driving all manner of Honda products including a balloon!.

The ironic thing is that the theme-song is "The impossible Dream" and given their F1 setup....that's about what it is.....a dream especially with JB...the worlds best Test Diver and RB just seeing-out the twiight of his career.


----------



## pg tips

watched the low lights on itv last night!

What a bloody boring "race"!

DC made me laugh We're the F1 vultures picking up the scraps if the others fall out of the race.

Nearly another point DC but not quite!

They have got to ban pit stops, make the cars do race distance on a set amount of fuel and a single set of tyres!


----------



## Roger

> They have got to ban pit stops, make the cars do race distance on a set amount of fuel and a single set of tyres!


Here here!! sooner the better...the sport is dying on its feet.

Let the manufacturers introduce whatever tweaks they like within a given and agreed dimensional and engine size spec.

F1 cars shouls ALWAYS have a performance well in excess of even the best drivers ability

They are going down the same route as Rallying.....turn-em-all-into-shopping- cars


----------



## makky

Roger said:


> They have got to ban pit stops, make the cars do race distance on a set amount of fuel and a single set of tyres!
> 
> 
> 
> Here here!! sooner the better...the sport is dying on its feet.
> 
> Let the manufacturers introduce whatever tweaks they like within a given and agreed dimensional and engine size spec.
> 
> F1 cars shouls ALWAYS have a performance well in excess of even the best drivers ability
> 
> They are going down the same route as Rallying.....turn-em-all-into-shopping- cars
Click to expand...

Agreed! - I'm thinking the same way -

F1 should be a technical showcase of the best in the world. Remove all the restrictions on car technology and go back to the way it was in the 1970's. Just limit the car to a certain size, but allow practically anything else. Turbochargers & Side skirts for everyone.

Or -

Make all the cars exactly the same. Then we can really see who has the most talent.


----------



## jasonm

Well, good result for Ferrari!!









Is is a tempory glitch for Renault? Thats the big question, roll on Hungary so we can find out 

Good to see Jensen with a better car again.....


----------



## PhilM

1, 2 again is pretty good







Is this comeback from Ferrari just down to this mass damper system of Renault's that is set to return next week.


----------



## Roger

Oh sh*t... missed it!!

the race must have been during the adverts.....

Says it all when the ITV commentator said that the _"move of the race"_ was when Kimi exited pit-lane..

As someone on another forum posted...

quote "re the "mass damper" fiasco....I sense the hand of a certain Italian F1 team behind this....."

Just like the ole days again?

Roger


----------



## jasonm

I have it on very good authority it was actually Dennis who 'had a word' about the damper,

the reason is that McLaren have been trying to make a similar system work for them over recent months, but cant make it work properly


----------



## JoT

I think Renault stand a good chance of winning this case .... I don't see how a mass damper can improve the aerodynamics and increase grip but can see how it would improve the mechanical grip of the car.

Should be interesting ..... which is more I can say for the racing


----------



## MarkF

JoT said:


> I think Renault stand a good chance of winning this case .... I don't see how a mass damper can improve the aerodynamics and increase grip but can see how it would improve the mechanical grip of the car.
> 
> Should be interesting










I can't wait for a break down of " damper" pro's and con's. Good grief, Jim Clark must be spinning.









I would outlaw F1


----------



## pg tips

All the mass damper does afaics is enable the car to brake later going into a corner, the damper giving more grip on rapid deceleration, however this fraction on every corner adds up to quite an advantage. Renalut maybe without it for some time though!

from itv-f1.com today



> Renault may have to race without its mass damper system until the Italian Grand Prix in September, ITV-F1.com has learned.
> 
> The team is seeking dispensation to use the device at next weekendâ€™s Hungarian Grand Prix, pending the outcome of an appeal hearing at which the FIA will challenge the decision of the Hockenheim race stewards to disregard its earlier ban.
> 
> Renault believes it will be put at an unfair disadvantage if it cannot use the dampers for a second consecutive race and the appeal court subsequently upholds their legality.
> 
> But the FIA has made it clear that it continues to regard mass dampers as illegal â€" meaning that teams running such systems will potentially be subject to retroactive penalties if the appeal court sides with the governing body.
> 
> The timing and outcome of the appeal hearing could therefore play a significant role in the outcome of this yearâ€™s world championship.
> 
> â€œA date for the appeal hearing has not yet been set,â€ noted an FIA spokesman, adding that it was possible that the appeal would not be heard until the first week of September, on the eve of the Italian GP.
> 
> Renault was trounced by Ferrari at Hockenheim on Sunday and saw its lead dwindle in both the driversâ€™ and constructorsâ€™ points standings.
> 
> Although its main problem was with blistering Michelin rear tyres, the mass damper is believed to be worth anything up to 0.3s per lap to the performance of the R26.


As for the race, watched the lowlights again, and again there wasn't much racing, was there?


----------



## jasonm

Not looking good for Fernando this weekend







( From F1ITV)



> Fernando Alonso has been punished for dangerous driving following an altercation with Robert Doornbos in Friday practice for the Hungarian Grand Prix.
> 
> The world champion will have two seconds added to his fastest lap time in each segment of Saturdayâ€™s qualifying.
> 
> Alonso gesticulated angrily at Doornbos after the Red Bull third driver held him up on a new-tyre run on Friday afternoon and then appeared to brake-test the Dutchman going into the first corner.
> 
> The two drivers were summoned to the stewardsâ€™ office to give their versions of the incident, and Alonso was later called back a second time.
> 
> After lengthy deliberations the stewards handed the Spaniard two time penalties of one second each for separate offences.
> 
> The first was for â€œunnecessary, unacceptable and dangerousâ€ driving in the incident with Doornbos, the other for overtaking under a yellow flag.
> 
> The penalties mean that Alonso will be hard pressed to make it past the knockout qualifying stages on Saturday, and is likely to start from the middle of the grid or below.


----------



## Roger

This incident (and several others not involving these two drivers) are a good indicator to me, that there are several drivers in F1, who are somewhat out of their depth.

No names-no packdrill!! enthusiasts of F1 will know who...

Roger


----------



## jasonm

I agree Roger, these people only have a seat because of the sponsorship or cash they bring with them, not their talent.....

Thats not strictly true, they do have a bit of talent, but there are probably/certainly loads of other drivers who are better but dont have the cash to buy a drive....The small teams need the pay drivers, the big teams dont and can pick and choose....


----------



## Roger

Quite so, Jase


----------



## rhaythorne

I defy anyone to seriously suggest that today's race is boring!


----------



## jasonm

Yeah!!!!!!









Well done Jensen!!!!


----------



## rhaythorne

Button's win was a bonus. The whole race was fantastic


----------



## pg tips

Whoo Hoo!









Well done Jensen

Fantastic Win

& at last a decent race to watch!


----------



## Roger

Yes,

I have to agree...interesting...

Nice moment when Alonso lapped Schumacher and Jensons Honda didnt blow up this time.


----------



## Steve264

One of the best for many years - and Jenson's first win of many, hopefully - let's hope he can carry the fight to Alonso next year...


----------



## pg tips

watched the highlights last night, Allonso said it was a drive shaft faliure









If it was a nut coming off I bet the mechanic is in the


----------



## jasonm

The Ferrari F1 team fired their entire pit crew yesterday.

This announcement followed Ferrari's decision to take advantage of the British government's 'Work for your Dole' scheme and employ some Liverpudlian youngsters.

The decision to hire them was brought about by a recent documentary on how unemployed youths from Toxteth were able to remove a set of wheels in less than 6 seconds without proper equipment, whereas Ferrari's existing crew could only do it in 8 seconds with millions of pounds worth of high tech equipment.

It was thought to be an excellent, bold move by the Ferrari management team as most races are won and lost in the pits, giving Ferrari an advantage over every other team.

However, Ferrari got more than they bargained for! At the crew's first practice session, not only was the scouse pit crew able to change all four wheels in under 6 seconds but, within 12 seconds, they had re-sprayed, re- badged and sold the car to the Mclaren team for 8 cases of Stella, a bag of weed and some photos of Coulthard's bird in the shower.


----------



## rhaythorne

The first line scared me for a moment!


----------



## pg tips

Jase that is scousist, as a moderator you should know better


----------



## jasonm

Calm down!!!


----------



## jasonm

The FIA has finaly banned the Renault damper system









Should make the last 5 races more interesting 

Come on Shumie !!


----------



## JoT

The best race for years and nobody posts


----------



## jasonm

It was good wasnt it


----------



## pg tips

fell asleep watching the lowlights last night









I take it Schumi didn't get past Alonso?


----------



## jasonm

He diddnt









A few more laps and he would have I think....


----------



## Steve264

Nando relegated to 10th on Grid at Monza:

The full decision of the stewards:

_A report was received from the race director that stated that the driver of car no. 1, Fernando Alonso, had impeded another driver during qualifying, namely Felipe Massa, car no. 6._

The stewards, after hearing the explanation of both the drivers, their team managers, and having seen video evidence and data supplied by Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro, find that:

1. Fernando Alonso was on his out-lap and, having been caught by Felipe Massa, did impede him;

2. To impede another driver during the qualifying practice session is an offence (Article 116b of the 2006 Formula 1 Sporting Regulations);

*3. Such actions may not have been deliberate.*

The stewards determine that a breach of the regulations has occurred during qualifying practice and by virtue of the provisions of the 2006 Formula 1 Sporting Regulations Article 112 order that the best three laps set by Fernando Alonso in the third period of qualifying be deleted.

Signed by Tony Scott-Andrews, Enzo Spano and Alessandro Tibiletti.








WTF?

If Alonso's actions "may not have been deliberate" then how can they punish him? if there's any doubt are they not meant to declare the case not proved?








this is another ploy to make the championship "interesting" by handing some points to Schu.


----------



## jasonm

I think the word 'may' is the thing..... it is neither one way or another, he may have done it deliberatly he may not....Good decision I think...









Go Shumie


----------



## PhilM

Say now more


----------



## rhaythorne

> Go Shumie


He did









...and apparently will do completely (as a driver at least) at the end of this season


----------



## Roger

What a farce of a Stewards decision......

I think we all know whose dirty hands are all over this one given the circumstances.

1/ At Monza

2/ One of the stewards named Enzo

3/ The well known lack of neutrality by some of the F1 management

hardly suprising really?


----------



## jasonm

How very cynical









Go Shumi


----------



## Regal325

> Go Shumi


Yes..quite agree ..... Ralph has potential


----------



## jasonm

Ahhh...

I suppose I walked into that one!!


----------



## jasonm

Woo-Hoo!!!!!!!!!!

What a race









Im glad that wiped the smirk of Alsonsos face









I really really want Michael to win this championship


----------



## hakim

Yup, great race!

Was slouching during the first half of the race but then it really picked up. Fantastic!









Go Schumi!


----------



## rhaythorne

Edge of the seat stuff









The rain certainly helped to mix things up a bit!

Don't forget A1GP is on this afternoon too.


----------



## hakim

Just finished watching the race!









What a turn of events









I couldn't believe it when Shumi's engine blew up. Crap! Ferrari, Italy and all his fans must be gutted









I never wished anyones engine to blow up but after that I really wanted Alonso'a engine to tear itself apart.....and added to that his stupid antics after the race on his car. What the heck is that?









Definetly the worst race of the year for me


----------



## raketakat

hakim said:


> I never wished anyones engine to blow up


I wish all their engines would blow up and then we could watch something interesting.....like the "test card" for instance







 .

Don't get so upset Hakim. It's not good for you







 .


----------



## pg tips

well if the roles are reversed in the last race shumi will still be champion, here's hoping


----------



## rhaythorne

Yes, not my favourite race of the season.

Not helped by most of the best bits either being missed by the TV director or occurring during the numerous ad breaks!


----------



## hakim

> raketakat Posted Today, 09:26 AM
> 
> Don't get so upset Hakim. It's not good for you


Thanks Ian 



> pg tips Posted Today, 09:27 AM
> 
> well if the roles are reversed in the last race shumi will still be champion, here's hoping


Yes, heres wishing!

Then we'll see Schumi dancing the jig on top of his car







and Alonso can go suck his thumb in the corner of the room!


----------



## jasonm

PISS BUM TOSS ARSE
















Im not watching anymore


----------



## JoT

It has all been decided ..... Alonso's engine will blow up on the penultimate lap and Schumi will win the race and take the title.


----------



## PhilM

JoT said:


> It has all been decided ..... Alonso's engine will blow up on the penultimate lap and Schumi will win the race and take the title.


Right off to the bookies tomorrow first thing, this has got to be good odds









I hope your right


----------



## rhaythorne

Well, a great race to end the season...

Alonso and Renault win their Championship titles, Massa wins his home Grand Prix, Button is on the podium too and Schumacher puts in one of the most spirited drives I've ever seen for the final race of his F1 career!

Should've recorded it!


----------



## jasonm

Yep, a great race, I really wanted Shumacher to go out on a win, but he gave a great drive to finish where he did, love him or hate him its the end of a amazing career....


----------



## Roger

Well done Renault....

Strange thing for me to say.........if money were no object...Renault and Ferrari would be the two makes that I would be least likely to buy.......have despised ferrari for years

I suppose next season, if the ITV commentary team still exist, certain members of it will have to find another bottom to lick in public!


----------



## hakim

Fantastic race but saddenned Schumi didn't win it. Drove like a champion he is - inspite of all the help he received on track


----------



## rhaythorne

I did hear this sad news on Friday, but, just in case anyone else missed it:

Clay Regazzoni Killed in Road Accident


----------



## jasonm

Oh no!!!

I hadnt heard


----------



## Bladerunner

That is sad news.


----------



## pg tips

Just to keep Jase Happy and start the thread going again

Have you seen the new Honda RA107?









Anyone know if Black is the final colour or is it going to get a gaudy paint job?


----------



## pg tips

> With the RA107 sporting its black and white testing colours in preparation for a reveal of the new team livery next month.......


(hondaracingf1.com)


----------



## jasonm

Thats a shame







...Looks great in black...


----------



## KCR

jasonm said:


> Thats a shame
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Looks great in black...


I hope Honda go with a metallic paint job, like what McLaren had last season. Those were the best looking cars out there!

Honda would look good with a pearl white and metallic red combo finish.

I rekon Honda will be pretty good this season. Rubens has settled in and they were very good in the second half of last season.


----------



## gnuse

Well, if they would just get rid of downforce, F1 racing (well actually any form of racing) could be good. I have been an F1 lover for 45 years and I am pretty sure that downforce has not been helpful to a good show. IMHO and YMMV.


----------



## jasonm

Im with you there, reduce aero grip and increase mechanical grip, nice fat sticky slick 2 lap qually tyres, remember them?


----------



## KCR

They started showing the Melbourne F1GP ads here. Can't wait for the season to start!!!

I think Hamilton is going to be someone to watch out for this season.


----------



## jasonm

The new season starts soon


----------



## MarkF

Can't some greenies start demonstrating about it's "carbon footprint"?


----------



## jasonm

They could...Then the multi billion pound industry would just run them over like they were ants....


----------



## ALFA-Watch

Also, Im with you there, reduce aero grip and increase mechanical grip! i loved Gilles Villeneuve because it drived without calculations!

P.S. sorry my bad english


----------



## pg tips

As you'll no doubt be up anyway














I'll guess you'll be watching it Jase.

2 Saubers in the top 5 and Hamilton 4th! Could be a whole different ball game this season!


----------



## jasonm

Thats the plan Paul!!









Yep, should be a good one, that Mr Hamilton looks very very good, shame hes Dennis's driver









I do think Ferrari will have the speed and reliability though, but it will be a close season....

Once again Button hasnt got the right car for a decent championship









By the way, have you seen poor old Shumie doing those awful Fiat adverts







Bet he was cursing his manager for having a advert clause in his contract....


----------



## in_denial

Both Super Aguris ahead of the Hondas







Button and Barrichello will be wanting their old chassis back!

-- Tim


----------



## Steve264

Hamilton is the most exciting prospect for over a decade. Great that he's British (although I don't choose my allegiance on that basis, Senna being the ultimate in my book, followed by Schumi and probably Gilles). He looks like he'll give Nando a run for his money. I, too, regret that he's a Ronzo asset, but to be fair, Ron spotted him young and McLaren have nurtured him in a very intelligent way since he was a boy...

I do hope though that this doesn't turn out to be the Ferrarithon that it seems to be shaping up to be - Kimi and Massa are undoubtedly good, but it would be nice to watch a championship that had more than two contenders for a change.


----------



## James

I tend to follow F1 also, like the tech.

At least this year maybe 4 teams have a chance. Down to 1 tire co. this year too I believe, making the teams use 2 compounds per race. All we get here in TO is the Molson Indy comes to town lol.


----------



## JoT

"The boy done good" as they say ... stayed up to see the start


----------



## jasonm

Like PG predicted, I was up anyway so watched it all....

A good result all round....


----------



## pg tips

yep just looked the results up, could ferrari be on the way back to having a new world champ now schumi has left? perhaps he was holding them back!


----------



## limey

jasonm said:


> Like PG predicted, I was up anyway so watched it all....
> 
> A good result all round....


Me too!! I think Hamilton acquitted himself real well.


----------



## Steve264

Lewis looks like my new favourite









He's a cool customer all right.

Can't see anyone but Kimi winning the title though, if today was representative.


----------



## jasonm

I agree, the Ferraris fastest lap was a full second faster than the McLemons....


----------



## limey

jasonm said:


> I agree, the Ferraris fastest lap was a full second faster than the McLemons....


You mean the "McCitron"!!!


----------



## jasonm




----------



## jasonm

Woo Hoo!!!







About time....



> Traction control banned from 2008
> 
> Traction control will be banned from the start of next season as part of a rules shake-up aimed at reducing the impact of driver aids in Formula 1.
> 
> The decision to outlaw the most prominent - and unpopular - electronic 'gizmo' was rubber-stamped by the FIA at a meeting of the World Motor Sport Council earlier this week, having been agreed by all teams.


----------



## pg tips

F*** Me Button doesn't stand a cat in hell's chance now!


----------



## strange_too

If I'm honest these rules changes are b*llocks, they will make the more sensitive to aero. Make the cars wider, increase mechanical grip and reduce the aero. There will be less over taking and more traffic jams.

Max hasn't got a clue.

If you don't know of it, Pitpass.com is a good place for independent Formula One info. The editor's writing is fantastic and very insightful. Also the forum is good too, some very informed people.


----------



## jasonm

Bloody McLarens


----------



## rhaythorne

Damn right


----------



## pg tips




----------



## strange_too

The best start of a day I've had in a long time
















I have to say Lewis Hamilton is fantastic.


----------



## jasonm

Yeah, he did OK









At the start though he was gifted those 2 places, he just stuck to the racing line, pure and simple, the Ferraris were jockying for positions and found the line taken, game over.....


----------



## Roger

Best race for ages...McLarens getting back to their rightful place...show the despised Red Donkey team the way home...well done Lewis (and World Champ Alonso too)


----------



## rhaythorne

Well, at least one scarlet Ferrari back in _its_ rightful place









Now, it's not a secret that I don't like McLaren, but I'm getting fed up with the constant attention being paid to and adulation being heaped upon Lewis Hamilton. Note to ITV commentary team: There are 20+ other drivers and teams out there doing an equally good job. The whole race does not revolve around LH. Please comentate about something or someone else, or STFU!


----------



## PhilM

That was a great race nice to see Massa win under all that pressure







Also nice to see Alonso get whipped into 5th by Heidfeld


----------



## Robert

Did you see them being handed their watches before going on the podium? Presumably all sponsored.

Never noticed that before.


----------



## jasonm

Couldnt agree more Rich......F1ITV sponsored by Merc McLaren :wanker:


----------



## strange_too

Robert said:


> Did you see them being handed their watches before going on the podium? Presumably all sponsored.
> 
> Never noticed that before.


They all do. Various teams have deals with watch companies. Oris with Williams, TAG with McLaren etc.

I admit ITV have gone a little OTT with Hamilton, but at least it's not Button the great under achiever!

He is a great talent and is doing a great job. I look forward to his first win, I'll just make sure I mute James Allen!!


----------



## jasonm

Come on Ferrari!

New fan watching...


----------



## rhaythorne

Splendid stuff. Always glad to welcome a new member of the Tifosi


----------



## strange_too

Very well done Massa, very good race. Alonso and Kimi aren't happy bunnies.

Lewis Hamilton leading the World Drivers Championship, wish I'd had some money on that before the start of the season.


----------



## PhilM

That was a great race, good to see Massa keep his nerve on the first corner, poor old Alonso









DC drove well again


----------



## jasonm

I wish F1 ITV would shut up about bloody Hamilton


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> I wish F1 ITV would shut up about bloody Hamilton


He is a phenomenon Jason and he is British and he is driving an Anglo - German car


----------



## jasonm

Phenomenon my candy filled arse









Hes a very lucky boy with a powerful sugar daddy


----------



## rhaythorne

I agree with Jase. ITV's coverage has become the "Lewis Hamilton Show"









"Heeeeeere's Lewis!"


----------



## rhaythorne

Anyone else use the "Live Timing" feature on www.formula1.com?

It's great!


----------



## langtoftlad

jasonm said:


> I wish F1 ITV would shut up about bloody Hamilton


Hamilton leading


----------



## jasonm

Rich, that looks great, Ill check it out....

While were on the subject, James Alan....What a numpty







......I can almost see Brundels eyes rolling wenever Alan says something daft ( often )


----------



## jasonm

We will be here all day if this 'carries' on


----------



## JoT

I would rather watch NASCAR


----------



## langtoftlad

JoT said:


> I would rather watch NASCAR


euraghhh!


----------



## rhaythorne

I recorded the 2006 NASCAR Busch Series Season Summary off Motors TV. In "summary" form it's actually great viewing. Are you sure you don't want a copy?


----------



## langtoftlad

rhaythorne said:


> I recorded the 2006 NASCAR Busch Series Season Summary off Motors TV. In "summary" form it's actually great viewing. Are you sure you don't want a copy?


Kind offer - but I'll pass thank you.

For shear dodgem racing, you can't beat BTC


----------



## JoT

Hamilton nearly 1 minute ahead of the third placed car


----------



## pg tips

i'm listening on 5live, that's just slightly more interesting than itv's coverage, I think not seeing the pictures is a benefit!

Speaking of itv I know it was the race that Button won but wtf???

_ITV Sport's coverage of the 2006 Hungarian Grand Prix won the BAFTA for the best sports broadcast of the year._

Having a film crew film me emulsioning, which I'm doing this afternoon, would beat any of itv's sports coverage


----------



## rhaythorne

langtoftlad said:


> rhaythorne said:
> 
> 
> 
> I recorded the 2006 NASCAR Busch Series Season Summary off Motors TV. In "summary" form it's actually great viewing. Are you sure you don't want a copy?
> 
> 
> 
> Kind offer - but I'll pass thank you.
> 
> For shear dodgem racing, you can't beat BTC
Click to expand...

OK, a brief "off-topic" for BTCC discussion









I also have the BTCC 2006 Season Review









I used to adore the Brit touring cars a decade or three ago when there were loads of manufacturers and privateers involved. More recently though it just became a Vauxhall/Ford standoff so I lost interest. The Aussie V8 Supercars are much more exciting in that respect; superb racing! The same thing happened with German touring cars too when it became little more than Merc vs. Audi









If the touring car scene can get back to the excitement of the 70's/80's, I might start watching again. Hang on a minute, this is exactly the same argument that people level at F1! Hmmmm


----------



## in_denial

pg tips said:


> i'm listening on 5live, that's just slightly more interesting than itv's coverage, I think not seeing the pictures is a benefit!
> 
> Speaking of itv I know it was the race that Button won but wtf???
> 
> _ITV Sport's coverage of the 2006 Hungarian Grand Prix won the BAFTA for the best sports broadcast of the year._
> 
> Having a film crew film me emulsioning, which I'm doing this afternoon, would beat any of itv's sports coverage


Snap Mr. Tips! I'm all over the bathroom walls today, so like you I was in an excellent position to make a F1/paint drying comparison.

(Castell on a 70s Record bracelet for decorating)

-- Tim


----------



## strange_too

McLaren found not guilty









Thank god a bit of common sense by the FIA. Especially after what Bernie said this morning!!


----------



## strange_too




----------



## rhaythorne

I've had my doubts about those two for a while now


----------



## rhaythorne

And now James Allen has even more to talk about in relation to Lewis' "pole"


----------



## strange_too

It was a brilliant bit of driving. Alonso looks pissed off.

I'm sure ITV are pissed they didn't show it on ITV1.


----------



## rhaythorne

Fingers and everything else crossed for Kubica's recovery!

Other than that, Heidfeld might win me another fiver


----------



## rhaythorne

Still waiting for news about Kubica but, other than that, sick bag is at the ready over Hamilton's first win. Well done Lewis, but let's leave the ITV adulation there shall we?


----------



## strange_too

rhaythorne said:


> Still waiting for news about Kubica but, other than that, sick bag is at the ready over Hamilton's first win. Well done Lewis, but let's leave the ITV adulation there shall we?


Kubica has broken his leg.

Fantastic job Lewis, one to remember I have to say


----------



## rhaythorne

strange_too said:


> rhaythorne said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for news about Kubica but, other than that, sick bag is at the ready over Hamilton's first win. Well done Lewis, but let's leave the ITV adulation there shall we?
> 
> 
> 
> Kubica has broken his leg.
> 
> Fantastic job Lewis, one to remember I have to say
Click to expand...









Oh man! That's one of the best drivers in F1 out for the rest of the season then?


----------



## limey

OK, so I had to go searching for details to see what happened, but I did watch some of the coverage of qualifying for Monaco. So between that and what I just read I have a couple of questions for you, as my finger is waaayyy off the pulse of F1.

What's the deal with qualifying? Multiple sessions to determine who can qualify for the next round of qualifying? What's the idea here, more time watching TV to see who qualifies so they can sell more advertising? I have other thoughts on this but I'd like to hear yours...

As to the Canadian, they penalised Kovalainen 10 spots on the grid because his engine failed!! WTF is going on with this? What next suspending you for a race if you crash? What's Kubica's penalty for breaking his leg? And what about Webber, did he lose grid position for causing the wreck with Speed?

Good on Hamilton, though.


----------



## strange_too

rhaythorne said:


> Oh man! That's one of the best drivers in F1 out for the rest of the season then?


Yes I would guess so, I haven't heard how bad the break is, but I'm guessing it's messy.

It will be interesting to see who races in his place. It will be either Sebastian Vettel or Timo Glock.


----------



## rhaythorne

limey said:


> OK, so I had to go searching for details to see what happened, but I did watch some of the coverage of qualifying for Monaco. So between that and what I just read I have a couple of questions for you, as my finger is waaayyy off the pulse of F1.
> 
> What's the deal with qualifying? Multiple sessions to determine who can qualify for the next round of qualifying? What's the idea here, more time watching TV to see who qualifies so they can sell more advertising? I have other thoughts on this but I'd like to hear yours...
> 
> As to the Canadian, they penalised Kovalainen 10 spots on the grid because his engine failed!! WTF is going on with this? What next suspending you for a race if you crash? What's Kubica's penalty for breaking his leg? And what about Webber, did he lose grid position for causing the wreck with Speed?
> 
> Good on Hamilton, though.


...deep breath... Read the FIA rules; they're way too complicated to get into a discussion here 

But, one reason they cant go back to the qualifying sessions or even racing of yesteryear is that technology has moved on... the best tyres of today have phenomenal grip and can easily last an entire race ...so can an engine, if need be.

How about we double the number of laps evey race but go back to the tyre change strategies of the 70's/80's?


----------



## jasonm

Ahhhh the 80s......

The golden age,

Manual gear changes

Dustbin lid Turbos

Super sticky slicks

Funny fuel

Real drivers who whos idea of personal trainers were his Nikes....

Those were the days.....


----------



## rhaythorne

jasonm said:


> Ahhhh the 80s......
> 
> The golden age,
> 
> Manual gear changes
> 
> Dustbin lid Turbos
> 
> Super sticky slicks
> 
> Funny fuel
> 
> Real drivers who whos idea of personal trainers were his Nikes....
> 
> Those were the days.....


ooer! I've come over all shaky!

I'll be wearing an RLT8 next


----------



## rhaythorne

The good news is that Kubica is apparently OK and hasn't broken a leg after all. There's a chance he may even be racing in the USA GP next weekend


----------



## pg tips

Nikes!









You mean Dunlop green flash young man


----------



## strange_too

He was seen out for a meal with his manager last night. Kubica is one lucky guy.


----------



## strange_too

Vettel will replace Kubica at Indy. Will be interest, he's meant to be very fast


----------



## JoT

Just seen Hamilton qualify on pole position for he US Grand Prix.

I know there is a lot of hype over Hamilton, but his final shoot out laps were superb, and this lad is a genuine talent without any doubt.


----------



## strange_too

JoT said:


> Just seen Hamilton qualify on pole position for he US Grand Prix.
> 
> I know there is a lot of hype over Hamilton, but his final shoot out laps were superb, and this lad is a genuine talent without any doubt.


Yes, lots of hype and the talent to back it up

He looks as "cuffed as nuts" to be on pole


----------



## jasonm

For all my 'Lewis bashing' I think he is a surperb driver, I just cant help wishing he cut his F1 teeth in another car/team to see what he is really made of, or at least I wish it was pointed out more that the Mc L is the best car out there at the moment, Im pretty sure this may have had a bit to do with his sucsess so far.....


----------



## strange_too

jasonm said:


> For all my 'Lewis bashing' I think he is a surperb driver, I just cant help wishing he cut his F1 teeth in another car/team to see what he is really made of, or at least I wish it was pointed out more that the Mc L is the best car out there at the moment, Im pretty sure this may have had a bit to do with his sucsess so far.....


The Mac is the best car out there at the moment, but he's also driving it very well. When I first heard he was going to race, I'd hoped he was going to be rented out to a small team so he could learn what losing was all about. However he's doing a very good job at winning. I hope when he doesn't do as well, he copes with it.

They've got over losing Newey and the sad death of Paul Morgan. I never really rated JPM and Kimi doesn't like testing. Pedro is a great tester and so was Wurz.

Now Ferrari are struggling without Brawn and the technical feedback of Michael. The amount of sawing that Kimi and Massa where doing they must have thought they where chippies....









The BMW will be the flies tomorrow and in the future races.


----------



## Robert

I'm losing interest a bit. I find it frustrating that several talented drivers just don't get a look in because of their car.

I am a Coulthard fan but you rarely get to see much of him racing these days. There's also guys like Ralf S and Barrichello - if I was them I would retire unless I had a top team drive. I have no doubt that Hamilton is good but at the same time fortunate to be in a McLaren


----------



## strange_too

Robert said:


> I'm losing interest a bit. I find it frustrating that several talented drivers just don't get a look in because of their car.
> 
> I am a Coulthard fan but you rarely get to see much of him racing these days. There's also guys like Ralf S and Barrichello - if I was them I would retire unless I had a top team drive. I have no doubt that Hamilton is good but at the same time fortunate to be in a McLaren


DC is running at the higher end of the midfield with RBR, the car isn't that good at the moment, but I can see next years car being a good development. If they can get the reliability and the team can improve it's handling of any given situation.

Rubens' best days are behind him, unfortunately. That Honda isn't doing him much good, he should enjoy his retirement or join Mika in DTM.

Ralf should have left a long time ago, the same should be said of Trulli too. Toyota could have saved themselves a fortune in wages, getting a couple of "experienced in testing" youngsters and they could have spent the money they saved on wages developing the car.

The real test of a driver, is where his in comparison to his team mate. Lewis is racing against a 2 times world champion and getting the job done.


----------



## jasonm

> The real test of a driver, is where his in comparison to his team mate. Lewis is racing against a 2 times world champion and getting the job done.


I agree with you there, I dont think Alonso likes being in a team that doesnt throw rose petals down whereever he walks....


----------



## strange_too

> I agree with you there, I dont think Alonso likes being in a team that doesnt throw rose petals down wherever he walks....


I think he's beginning to feel the challenge of a team mate.

Fisi never really pushed him when he was a Renault, now Lewis is giving him a run for his money.


----------



## rhaythorne

strange_too said:



> Rubens' best days are behind him, unfortunately. That Honda isn't doing him much good, he should enjoy his retirement or join Mika in DTM.


Or take up sports car/GT racing.

Anyone been watching Le Mans (it's being shown live on Motors TV, still a few laps to go)? JV's been doing well in the new Pug


----------



## rhaythorne

Crazy end to Le Mans. Safety Car out in heavy rain until 10 minutes to go leaving a free-for-all to the flag. 7-8 minutes remaining


----------



## JoT

rondeco said:


> "F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone isn't impressed. He has gone into full posturing rhetoric, his normal modus operandi when the time comes to renegotiate a contract.
> 
> Ecclestone said this week that F1 really doesn't need a U.S. race. India is waiting and so is South Korea, both of which have government backing to help absorb enormous sums of cash Ecclestone demands for the right to kiss his F1 ring."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/columns/stor...&id=2906439


F1 is interesting because of the technology, but every season we only have a few cars that are genuinely competitive and I do find that tedious. IMO Champ/IRL (when are they going to get back together?) and NASCAR are far superior as a spectacle.


----------



## jasonm

> F1 is interesting because of the technology


It used to be more so, there are too many restrictions in my opibion......


----------



## strange_too

Interesting race. Well done Lewis, the only time he was really challenge he dealt with it well.

Alonso doesn't look happy at all in the press conference after. He didn't change overalls either to over starched strangely pressed ones that McLaren normally get their drives to wear. He's got a fight on his hands and he needs to get on with it.


----------



## strange_too

Not sure who's going to Silverstone or not, but Bernie is doing a thing with Vue Cinemas across the country.

The Grand Prix will be shown live and without adverts at the Cinema. It's not cheap, but what do you expect it's Bernie, at Â£15. There are family tickets which make it a bit cheaper.


----------



## pg tips

strange_too said:


> Not sure who's going to Silverstone or not, but Bernie is doing a thing with Vue Cinemas across the country.
> 
> The Grand Prix will be shown live and without adverts at the Cinema. It's not cheap, but what do you expect it's Bernie, at Â£15. There are family tickets which make it a bit cheaper.


so I can now pay Â£15 to fall asleep instead of doing it for free at home


----------



## rhaythorne

An excellent race! Great to see Ferrari back on form. I'll be sorry to see Magny-Cours go, it's clearly capable of generating some terrific racing.


----------



## JoT

Ferrari first and second with a much livlier car; McLaren get their tactics wrong three stopping Hamilton.

Normal service resumed perhaps?


----------



## strange_too

Lewis just didn't have the race pace, he was also running 7th in the speed traps. McLaren just tried something different today.

I think the result will be different next weekend.

It was interesting to see Alonso's pass on Heidfield it was fantastic.


----------



## jasonm

Havent watched it yet but Im looking forward to doing so...

Come on Ferrari, keep it up


----------



## pg tips

I thought Magny-Cours was universally derided by the drivers and regarded as one of the worst circuits on the calendar.









Unlike Suzuka which has been dropped in favour of Fuji after lobbying (bribary?) by Toyota. An absolutely unbelieveable decision imo.

Got bored with todays race on lap 3 and didn't return until lap 66. So much for world champion Alonso he went from 7th when I switched off to erm well 7th at the flag









Kubica has balls though doesn't he, I didn't think he'd even be driving this week.


----------



## Guest

Great thread gents


----------



## rhaythorne

pg said:



> Got bored with todays race on lap 3 and didn't return until lap 66.










You missed all the best bits! It was a thriller!


----------



## strange_too

No it wasn't.

Alonso trying to overtake was the most interesting part.

The race was under Ferrari control from the start, it was just that Kimi put in a couple of extra hot laps after Massa 2nd stop that meant he won. The funniest thing was Massa's face on the podium and press conference. I haven't heard that much whingeing since Mansell.


----------



## pg tips

rhaythorne said:


> pg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got bored with todays race on lap 3 and didn't return until lap 66.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You missed all the best bits! It was a thriller!
Click to expand...


----------



## pg tips

watching the quali' for the 1st time in ages

Button







ffs!

what is all this fastest 16 then fastest 10 rubbish?









button could have pulled out a 1:19 if given more time







:*****:


----------



## jasonm

'if' is a big word


----------



## rhaythorne

So is "ireallyreallyreallyhatelewishamilton"


----------



## pg tips

edge of the sofa, I kid you not, on that last lap. wtf did he pull that from! Mansell's quote about the crowd at silverstone giving him an extra 1/2 springs to mind. What a lap!

Go Lewis go!


----------



## jasonm

He fluked it......

Little tosspot.......Ron must have promised him an extra bed time story....


----------



## pg tips

Oh you are bitter aren't you









Jase he will develop into another Senna.

Baring injury I can't see any one else but him being champion this season.


----------



## Roger

Well done Lewis.

I see the prancing Donkey have reverted to type. Just like a few years back when they couldnt build a car that would hang together for more than half a race so they start to scatter lawsuits around the place...everyone who was quicker than them got a lawsuit or a protest.

No wonder they are so dispised.

Roger


----------



## jasonm

pg tips said:


> Oh you are bitter aren't you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jase he will develop into another Senna.
> 
> Baring injury I can't see any one else but him being champion this season.





Roger said:


> Well done Lewis.
> 
> I see the prancing Donkey have reverted to type. Just like a few years back when they couldnt build a car that would hang together for more than half a race so they start to scatter lawsuits around the place...everyone who was quicker than them got a lawsuit or a protest.
> 
> No wonder they are so dispised.
> 
> Roger


Paul....Never









Roge, cant agree...A few years back? how far eactly? The Ferraris of the last 10 years have had ledgendary reliability..I would also guess that they have the largest fanbase of all the teams ..


----------



## PhilM

I duno I reckon Ferrari are going to pull something out of the bag tomorrow 

Poor Alonso and Hamilton are going to get a


----------



## rhaythorne

Perhaps if Lewis starts driving for Ferrari we'd all be happy


----------



## jasonm

rhaythorne said:


> Perhaps if Lewis starts driving for Ferrari we'd all be happy


I would be happy as Ron would die of shame


----------



## rhaythorne

Yeah, and at least Lewis would be driving for the right team. He's young, but everyone's allowed to make a mistake!


----------



## PhilM

rhaythorne said:


> Perhaps if Lewis starts driving for Ferrari we'd all be happy


He could already be, the've got the designs


----------



## jasonm

The McLari


----------



## rhaythorne

The "Too Ronnies"


----------



## jasonm




----------



## Robert

Massa must be having the most fun out there - made up 12 places in 11 laps


----------



## Guest

Griff, i agree with your coments, spot on mate


----------



## jasonm

A fine result









Paul, Senna would have won that from pole  Not finished 41 seconds behind and in 3rd.....Im not saying hes a bad driver, hes clearly got talent, but they all have, put Button in todays Mc and he would shine......No one made a fuss of Alonso when he was in a Minardi did they 

Superb drive frm Massa.....


----------



## rhaythorne

A vote for Massa as "driver of the day" from me; a terrific drive. And well done Kimi, not that I'm remotely biased









Today's ITV programme was bound to be the "Lewis Hamilton Show" of course, as it's the British GP. And I _really_ don't hate Lewis because, as Jase says, he's obviously very talented. But I am heartily sick of the one-sided commentary, especially from James Allen. Even after Lewis' little faux pas (French again







) in the pit stops he was straight in there bleating about how it wasn't as bad as a similar mistake Albers had made in a previous race. I wish the commentary was fed via a separate audio channel so you could choose to turn that f'er off!


----------



## grey

rhaythorne said:


> A vote for Massa as "driver of the day" from me; a terrific drive. And well done Kimi, not that I'm remotely biased
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Today's ITV programme was bound to be the "Lewis Hamilton Show" of course, as it's the British GP. And I _really_ don't hate Lewis because, as Jase says, he's obviously very talented. But I am heartily sick of the one-sided commentary, especially from James Allen. Even after Lewis' little faux pas (French again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) in the pit stops he was straight in there bleating about how it wasn't as bad as a similar mistake Albers had made in a previous race. I wish the commentary was fed via a separate audio channel so you could choose to turn that f'er off!


Agree on every point. Would it be unfair to call James Allen? :*****:


----------



## jasonm

I remember when F1 ITV had a public forum, I think they pulled it because after every race EVERYBODY slated Allan, a lot.....

He is a rotten commentator, I have huge respect for Brundel, how he keeps calm when Allan says something stupid I will never know...


----------



## pg tips

jasonm said:


> A fine result
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul, Senna would have won that from pole  Not finished 41 seconds behind and in 3rd.....


not with those tyres and this stupid 2 races per engine rule.

Hamiltons tyres clearly fell away quicker than Kimi's, did they have the right set up, they messed around with pressure and then adjusted his wing so I doubt it, and once he was off the pace the team told him to save his engine









Agree about Massa but come on he is in a Ferrari, anything outside of 6th would have been a failure, if he was all that he would have took 4th as well. If he could drive he wouldn't have stalled the f******g thing in the 1st place! What a numpty!

btw I turn itv sound off and put 5live on


----------



## rhaythorne

5live, that's a good idea. But do they still have sound from the track? i.e. engine sounds? Without it much of the atmosphere would be lost I think.


----------



## jasonm

pg tips said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> A fine result
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul, Senna would have won that from pole  Not finished 41 seconds behind and in 3rd.....
> 
> 
> 
> not with those tyres and this stupid 2 races per engine rule.
> 
> Hamiltons tyres clearly fell away quicker than Kimi's, did they have the right set up, they messed around with pressure and then adjusted his wing so I doubt it, and once he was off the pace the team told him to save his engine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agree about Massa but come on he is in a Ferrari, anything outside of 6th would have been a failure, if he was all that he would have took 4th as well. If he could drive he wouldn't have stalled the f******g thing in the 1st place! What a numpty!
> 
> btw I turn itv sound off and put 5live on
Click to expand...

I doubt if Massa stalled it, , bet it was a glitch in the software....

I think its fair to say the Ferrari is the faster race car and the McDenis is a good qualifier....


----------



## rhaythorne

Shouldn't that be "McRonald"? He's a bit of a clown after all.


----------



## Robert

jasonm said:


> I doubt if Massa stalled it, , bet it was a glitch in the software....





> The cause of the stall remained a mystery to Massa.
> 
> "I don't know, I just lost the engine and I don't know why," he said.


----------



## pg tips

yeah yeah Jase. glich







I thought the donkey was perfect?









you'll be saying McLaren have a gizmo to sabotage the ferrari next.


----------



## rhaythorne

jasonm said:


> I remember when F1 ITV had a public forum, I think they pulled it because after every race EVERYBODY slated Allan, a lot.....
> 
> He is a rotten commentator, I have huge respect for Brundel, how he keeps calm when Allan says something stupid I will never know...


I just did a quick search on the Internet and was quite surprised by the results. Honestly, I never knew there was such a vast amount of anti-allen sentiment out there! The very first link when doing a Google search for F1 +"James Allen" is a "Shut Up James Allen" online petition which over a 1000 people have sigfned







Apparently he even named his sons Enzo and Emerson!







Hope he never has a daughter, the poor kid will probably end up being called "Lewis".


----------



## strange_too

James Allen is an idiot, he was an idiot when he was a pit lane reporter and he's even worst as a commentator.

However one thing I don't understand is the vitriolic comments about McLaren from certain people here. They are a passionate and professional team, 152 race wins don't come without commitment, it's no different to Ferrari.

Lewis Hamilton has a great talent and is doing a fantastic job. 9 podiums in 9 races isn't just because of the car he is in. I would say he's doing a better job than Alonso at the moment.


----------



## rhaythorne

> However one thing I don't understand is the vitriolic comments about McLaren from certain people here.


Even as a small child I was a Ferrari fan. I just loved the cars and got caught up in the passion that others clearly felt for them, the drivers and the team (and I don't just mean F1). If it wasn't Ferrari it would be some other team that I could possibly relate to by seeing their cars on the road and aspiring to perhaps own one one day: Alfa, Maserati, Lotus, Renault, Porsche, Jag, Ford/Cosworth, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes (pre-McLaren) and so on. But McLaren? What do they make that I can buy into?







They mean nothing to me at all. That's one reason why I've never felt any affinity at all with McLaren. Another is that Ron is a moany old git and a bad loser









Of all the Brit teams that didn't appear to actually "make" anything that I could walk into a shop and buy, I much preferred the likes of Williams (well, there's the Clio Williams I suppose







), Jordan, Surtees and Tyrrell.


----------



## jasonm

strange_too said:


> James Allen is an idiot, he was an idiot when he was a pit lane reporter and he's even worst as a commentator.
> 
> However one thing I don't understand is the vitriolic comments about McLaren from certain people here. They are a passionate and professional team, 152 race wins don't come without commitment, it's no different to Ferrari.
> 
> Lewis Hamilton has a great talent and is doing a fantastic job. 9 podiums in 9 races isn't just because of the car he is in. I would say he's doing a better job than Alonso at the moment.


Well, yes they are very successful, however, they are very very clinical and ruthless in the way they run their business, I have friends that have worked there and they say it is no fun whatsoever, all the mechs go out and have a laugh and a piss up on the fly-aways, not them, they arnt allowed...Ron rules like a tyrant. This is why they are a top 2 team I guess...I know thats no reason to dislike the team but there you go, they are Ferraris arch enemies too so thats good enough for me..









I just dont like Ron really, hes arrogant and a bully and I love to see him pissed off!

Lewis is a great talent, but it mostly is just because of the car hes in, hes not exactly blowing everyone away is he, hes being consistent, but its just because hes in his rookie year that all the hype has happened, like Ive said before, give say, Heidfeld a drive in the McRon and he would do as well I suspect, Its early days yet of course though...It would be great to have another Brit as WC but hes not in the same league as Senna, Prost or Shumi..... 

Damon Hill did rather well in 94 but no one would ever say he was a outstanding driver.....


----------



## strange_too

jasonm said:


> Well, yes they are very successful, however, they are very very clinical and ruthless in the way they run their business, I have friends that have worked there and they say it is no fun whatsoever, all the mechs go out and have a laugh and a piss up on the fly-aways, not them, they arnt allowed...Ron rules like a tyrant. This is why they are a top 2 team I guess...I know thats no reason to dislike the team but there you go, they are Ferraris arch enemies too so thats good enough for me..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just dont like Ron really, hes arrogant and a bully and I love to see him pissed off!
> 
> Lewis is a great talent, but it mostly is just because of the car hes in, hes not exactly blowing everyone away is he, hes being consistent, but its just because hes in his rookie year that all the hype has happened, like Ive said before, give say, Heidfeld a drive in the McRon and he would do as well I suspect, Its early days yet of course though...It would be great to have another Brit as WC but hes not in the same league as Senna, Prost or Shumi.....
> 
> Damon Hill did rather well in 94 but no one would ever say he was a outstanding driver.....


They are there to do a job and that's it. There is time for fun and there is time for work. Race weekend are what you are there for, not to party. Engineering is a discipline and everyone needs to work as one. So you need a strong person in charge. The same as at Williams, Patrick Head must be a hard guy to work for.

Nick is a good driver and would do better in a faster car, he would have been my choice instead of Massa at Ferrari.

Only time will tell how great Lewis will be. He's got great car control and is learning about setting up a car.

Damon Hill was a good driver, who came into a strong position in a team because of an unfortunate event. I don't think he was ever a real choice as number 1 in the team.


----------



## pg tips

Lewis is a rookie, he has only 9 gp's under hs belt. He's (apostrophe Jase) hardly put a wheel wrong. His results considering his experience are far far better than anyone else would be in the McLaren or Ferrari. Yes he is lucky he has been given a great car in his 1st year but you've got to be a great driver to get results. Look at the world champions results this season.

I confidently predict in 10 years time Hamilton will be regarded as one of if not the best driver motor racing has ever seen.

Talking of gods, I got into f1 in the early 80's, and still remember Senna's drive in the rain at Monaco in 84. I loved lotus only because their cars were so







looking and then I followed senna when he moved to McLaren (I think Senna is responsible for my love of Honda as well).

I don't know why but I never ever got the Tifosi thing


----------



## pg tips

been taking a trip down memory lane on you tube

this had me in tears


----------



## strange_too

pg tips said:


> been taking a trip down memory lane on you tube
> 
> this had me in tears


Me too, it bought back many memories.


----------



## limey

From the Newark Star-Ledger,

The McLaren Formula One team was summoned to appear before the sport's governing body to explain how it came into posession of rival Ferrari's secret design documents. McLaren is scheduled to appear before FIA's world motor sport council in Paris on July 26. The documents included information on how to design, engineer, build, check, test, develop and run a 2007 Ferrari F1 car.


----------



## jasonm

The dirty cheating no good bastards


----------



## rhaythorne

Ouch!

Some of the F1 sites are quoting the following McLaren statement:



> Whilst McLaren wishes to continue its full cooperation with any investigation into this matter, it does wish to make it very clear that the documents and confidential information were only in the possession of one currently suspended employee on an unauthorised basis and no element of it has been used in relation to McLarenâ€™s Formula One cars.


The "one suspended employee" appears to be Chief Designer, Mike Coughlan, who apparently was suspended last Tuesday.

Hmmm, I wonder if Messrs. Coughlan and Stepney have been having a few "discussions" recently.

Anyway, whatever the truth of the matter, I suspect that McLaren are going to find it tricky to talk their way out of this one, given that they've been caught with what might be regarded as the automative sporting equivalent of "going equipped"!

Jase said:



> The dirty cheating no good










I knew I could rely on you to cut through the BS and tell it like it is!


----------



## JoT

Just watched a NNASCAR race on Five US what fantastic racing it is compared to F1, there were only inches in it on the finishing line.


----------



## rhaythorne

Yeah, they were only inches apart on the starting line hundreds of circular laps earlier 'n all


----------



## JoT

rhaythorne said:


> Yeah, they were only inches apart on the starting line hundreds of circular laps earlier 'n all


NASCAR has come a long way since this:


----------



## rhaythorne

I've heard of "Wacky Races" but that was clearly one of Dick Dastardly's devious schemes gone badly wrong or a put up job by the Ant Hill Mob


----------



## rhaythorne

Impressive indeed, but not much evidence of actual "racing", or corners







. And it's all over in a few seconds, a bit like if I was left alone with Geri... err no, that was a different thread, sorry


----------



## PhilM

Hamilton has put it into the wall


----------



## Robert

We might see tomorrow if he is actually any good


----------



## jasonm

Wow!!

What a crazy 10 minutes


----------



## langtoftlad

Robert said:


> We might see tomorrow if he is actually any good


Have you seen the start !!!

Waltzing F1 cars piroetting around the track







someone set it to music please.

Hamilton - how good is he...?

Got a rear puncture at the start, got it back to the pits!

Then he slid off at that corner with six others, but kept his engine running as he was lifted out of the gravel trap - and is back in the race (doing a Schumacher







!).

Red Flag


----------



## strange_too

The last Red flag was Spa 1998 if my memory servers me right.......... Actually was it Brazill a couple of years ago the race was ended on a red after a major crash at the start of the pit straight?


----------



## jasonm

strange_too said:


> The last Red flag was Spa 1998 if my memory servers me right.......... Actually was it Brazill a couple of years ago the race was ended on a red after a major crash at the start of the pit straight?


Yeah, was it Alonso ? It was an incredible crash...


----------



## strange_too

2003 Weber & Alonso






Last restart from red at Spa.


----------



## Robert

jasonm said:


> Wow!!
> 
> What a crazy 10 minutes


A whole seasons excitement crammed into 10 minutes


----------



## strange_too

Lewis on Drys!!


----------



## rhaythorne

One might say that Hamilton has the monopoly on Get Out of Jail Free cards this weekend


----------



## JoT

Robert said:


> A whole seasons excitement crammed into 10 minutes


Yep







that sums up F1!


----------



## rhaythorne

Anyone just see the Merc ad with Alonso, Hammy and Hakkinen?









Brilliant!


----------



## jasonm

Yeah......How cheesy was that!


----------



## rhaythorne

Wellll, OK. I thought it was funny; I laughed when Lewis fell over anyway


----------



## strange_too

Interesting race.

I loved strong move on Massa by Alonso


----------



## rhaythorne

Shhh, don't tell the Tisfosi:

I had a little bet on: Alonso to beat Massa!

\O/

Hope it still stands after the near-miss during the pit stop.


----------



## strange_too

I thought race control should have said it was being investigated, they had time.

So hopefully it will stand, it was a bit naughty, but I have seen worst in pit lane before. However only just..............

I liked when Michael giving Ron the trophy


----------



## langtoftlad

I think Ron enjoyed Michael giving him the trophy!


----------



## strange_too

langtoftlad said:


> I think Ron enjoyed Michael giving him the trophy!


Just a little









Ron loves a battle and that's what the race was today.


----------



## Robert

rhaythorne said:


> Anyone just see the Merc ad with Alonso, Hammy and Hakkinen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brilliant!


On youtube

Mercedes Ad


----------



## PhilM

Have to admit the race today was superb, loads of action and changing of positions







Will even give it to Alonso for getting one over on Massa in the last few laps









Also to top it off Hamilton doesn't get any points


----------



## strange_too

No penalty for McLaren today at the WMSC. However they do want to speak to Stepney and Coughlan about it.

Ferrari aren't happy about it at all, but I'm glad it hasn't affected the championship.


----------



## strange_too

Scott *No* Speed has been dropped by STR.

BMW's Vettel to replace him.


----------



## rhaythorne

Cool. Vettel should be one to watch









Seems that Damon Hill will be joining James Allen to commentate at Hungary whilst Martin Brundle is on holiday. Why can't Allen go on holiday? For 10 or 20 years, say!


----------



## strange_too

I say bring back Murray!! I loved listening to him on Radio5 last time out, but I'm not sure he's doing this weekend?


----------



## SharkBike

How about Tony Stewart beating out Kevin Harvick in the final laps for his second NASCAR win at Indy...and his second win in a row?

Oops...wrong room.

Carry on.

Sorry.


----------



## pg tips

FERRARI! CHEATS CHEATS NEVER BEAT!


----------



## jasonm

Yawn.......










Sour grapes from the McCrapen


----------



## pg tips

I can't see how gaffer taping Rolf Harris's wobble board to the belly of an f1 would make it go faster but hey those donkey makers will try anything once esp if it breaks the rules!


----------



## jasonm

:lol:







:lol:









Ive havent laughed so much for ages









Good old Fernando.....The look on Denises face!!!


----------



## rhaythorne

Way to go Fernando









Ron's face was a picture. I might even grab a freeze frame and hang it on my wall


----------



## JoT

rhaythorne said:


> Way to go Fernando
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ron's face was a picture. I might even grab a freeze frame and hang it on my wall


Alonso was waiting for a Ferrari to get out of the way ..... yeah right .... competitiveness I like.... cheating I don't


----------



## rhaythorne

It's not so much "cheating" as in-team fighting. Just like Le Saux and Batty (was it?) did at Blackburn Rovers a few years ago. The only difference is that they're having to do it from within the confines of a racing car.

Now, if Hamilton follows up by taking out Alonso (and himself) at the first corner tomorrow I'll be _really_ happy


----------



## Robert

rhaythorne said:


> Now, if Hamilton follows up by taking out Alonso (and himself) at the first corner tomorrow I'll be _really_ happy


I think there will be quite a bit of adrenalin pumping at the start tomorrow


----------



## PhilM

Have to admit that was a great qualifying session







However I did feel a bit sorry for Alonso's trainer with Ron marching him off like that


----------



## strange_too

The stewards are investigating.

What Alonso did is bad for the sport and I really hope that McLaren get the 1-2 tomorrow, with Lewis getting the win.

Senna and Michael did some bad things in their time, but was more destructive for the team than anything they did.


----------



## Guest

Cant wait


----------



## pg tips

f1 really is a farce isn't it?

When asked as to how long he missed out on setting a final quick lap, he (Hamilton) tersely replied: "About the same amount of time I was held up in the pit stop."

you tell it how it is Lewis! Alonso is a right :*****:


----------



## Griff

That Spanish Alonso twat is a bloody fairy IMO and I hope Lewis burns him off the f**king track!!!!!


----------



## langtoftlad

BBC News reports:

*"Fernando Alonso has been stripped of pole and moved five places down the Hungarian Grand Prix grid after impeding Lewis Hamilton in qualifying."*

Full article:

BBC News

...and no constructor points for McLaren regardless

Sounds like they're getting a little tired of seeing Ron Dennis in the "Headmaster's Study"


----------



## Robert

On BBC news they were just joking about who would win in a fight, because it might come to that by the end of the season.

Alonso or Hamilton?


----------



## JoT

Well done the stewards!


----------



## PhilM

Not to sure how many have seen this, but PMSL with what Hamilton told Ron









_Hamilton first vented his anger to Dennis over his in-car radio. 'Don't ****ing do that to me again,' he said. Dennis replied: 'Don't ****ing talk to me like that,' at which Hamilton told him: 'Go ****ing swivel.' _

Lifted from here


----------



## JoT

PhilM said:


> Not to sure how many have seen this, but PMSL with what Hamilton told Ron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Hamilton first vented his anger to Dennis over his in-car radio. 'Don't ****ing do that to me again,' he said. Dennis replied: 'Don't ****ing talk to me like that,' at which Hamilton told him: 'Go ****ing swivel.' _
> 
> Lifted from here


Brilliant


----------



## rhaythorne

langtoftlad said:



> Sounds like they're getting a little tired of seeing Ron Dennis in the "Headmaster's Study"


Yes, and I reckon they've just seperated Alonso and Hamilton (like a couple of schoolboys) so there can be no shenanigans at the start today









I wonder what the ruling would be, if any, if a driver pulled the stunt that Alonso did during an actual race rather than qualifying? During qualifying, the rules basically say that you're not allowed to deliberately impede another car, so Alonso's actions yesterday, whilst amusing to me, were clearly in breach of those rules. In a race though, if it were possible to gain some kind of advantage by pulling the same stunt, I can't see that that would be against the rules unless there was some element of "dangerous driving" involved by not leaving the pits when the team told you to do so. The team would give you a right bollocking of course!

Alonso does seem to be getting rather petulant of late. Witness his "You broke my sidepod!







" spat with Massa at the end of the last race


----------



## Griff

The late great James Hunt would have decked Alonso....absolutely no doubt about that what-so-ever!!!


----------



## JoT

The Hungarian GP must be the most boring of a lot of boring circuits


----------



## Robert

JoT said:


> The Hungarian GP must be the most boring of a lot of boring circuits


I thought after yesterdays events that today was going to be good but the circuit doesn't help. What we need is for Alonso to get up to 2nd place behind Hamilton. Then it would liven up...


----------



## pg tips

it only goes to prove the race outcome is 90% decided on the saturday which is all wrong.

I think they should scrap qualies. run the cars in reverse oreder from the previous race with all the dnf's added to the back.

the grid for the 1st race of the season to be decided by a tiddly wink contest which would be far more interesting than watching today's race.


----------



## JoT

There is something fundamentally wrong with a race circuit where a faster car cannot overtake a slower car









What a crap race.


----------



## rhaythorne

Blame the stewards you were praising earlier 

What I find most boring are the relentless boring posts about how boring F1 is. Don't you get bored posting them?









Mind you, this race is pretty boring


----------



## JoT

rhaythorne said:


> Blame the stewards you were praising earlier


The stewards didn't design the race track


----------



## jasonm

Its because of the shit tyres and shit areodynamics they have to use to get any downforce...There s no mechanical grip...Its wank....


----------



## rhaythorne

JoT said:


> rhaythorne said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the stewards you were praising earlier
> 
> 
> 
> The stewards didn't design the race track
Click to expand...

No, but they moved Alonso five places back on the grid which ruined the fun I was anticipating at the start.


----------



## JoT

rhaythorne said:


> JoT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhaythorne said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blame the stewards you were praising earlier
> 
> 
> 
> The stewards didn't design the race track
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, but they moved Alonso five places back on the grid which ruined the fun I was anticipating at the start.
Click to expand...

That's got nothing to do with the track


----------



## pg tips

LEWIS









Has Massa finished yet?


----------



## rhaythorne

SPEWIS


----------



## JoT

rhaythorne said:


> SPEWIS


----------



## rhaythorne

Who's that? James Allen and Lewis Hamilton?


----------



## mrteatime

im confused??????????????


----------



## Robert

I fell asleep and woke up in time for the podium -_-


----------



## jasonm

> Who's that? James Allen and Lewis Hamilton?


With Ron watching......


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> Who's that? James Allen and Lewis Hamilton?
> 
> 
> 
> With Ron watching......
Click to expand...

Nah na na Naah Na


----------



## jasonm




----------



## Griff

C**t hooks Alonso doesn't make podium. That's good enough for me


----------



## JoT

Griff said:


> C**t hooks Alonso doesn't make podium. That's good enough for me


Who won?


----------



## strange_too

Lewis.









First time in 30 races that someone has lead all the racing laps. Good result for him today.

The championship looks more interesting, 7 behind, 20 behind and 21 behind. Lewis really has a good chance of winning this year.


----------



## Guest

YEP , good effort


----------



## quoll

Who else thought Damon Hill was the world's worst commentator? I hate James Allen with a vengeance, but even he was better than Damon's inane b******t.









I fell asleep too. Didn't miss much.


----------



## pg tips

has Massa finished yet


----------



## grey

quoll said:


> Who else thought Damon Hill was the world's worst commentator? I hate James Allen with a vengeance, but even he was better than Damon's inane b******t.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I fell asleep too. Didn't miss much.


Agree. Nice guy, wrong job.







Though his dad would have made it a laugh.


----------



## rhaythorne

Nice to see Ferrari back on top, but an otherwise unremarkable race in Turkey. Still, Monza and Spa to come so I hope they'll spark some interest.


----------



## Guest

rhaythorne said:


> Nice to see Ferrari back on top, but an otherwise unremarkable race in Turkey. Still, Monza and Spa to come so I hope they'll spark some interest.


Yep looking forward to both mate


----------



## jasonm

Yep...Good result , average race, which is a shame because its a great track......

The last 6 races should be good!


----------



## pg tips

Ever the optimist JM.









Kimi looked well pissed off.


----------



## smashie

pg tips said:


> Kimi looked well pissed off.


He has other facial expressions?


----------



## rhaythorne

I guess he has at least two:

Asleep and awake.


----------



## jasonm

Did you notice yesterdays coverage was all about the McLarens doing 'badly' rather than the Ferraris doing well......


----------



## jasonm

pg tips said:


> Ever the optimist JM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kimi looked well pissed off.


Im not surprised.....I love the way he did that fastest lap a few from the end.....









Team orders? Course not, they're allowed


----------



## rhaythorne

Just a quick heads-up for vintage F1 fans, er, fans of vintage F1. Or maybe both 

I was just pottering about on Amazon (UK) and spotted the 2-disc special edition (i.e. the full-length version plus lots of additional "making-of" documentaries etc.) of the classic 1966 movie _Grand Prix_. *Â£2.97*







Surely an essential item in any F1 fan's collection.


----------



## pg tips

the best start for years!

You could actually see Hamilton racing and defending!

Poor old DC hell of a lap 1


----------



## rhaythorne

Yep, Button vs Rosberg has been fun too!


----------



## strange_too

Did you see that!!!







Now that's how to pass people!!


----------



## rhaythorne

rondeco said:


> Ferrari ....pffft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :*****:
> 
> I bet Hamilton would be hung drawn and quartered if the Tifosi could get hold of him










That can be arranged!

Nah, that was a great move by Hammy on Kimi, can't argue with that...

...as much as it pains me to say it


----------



## strange_too

A great result today for the boys from Woking







Great work for the whole weekend.

I would also say Massa's titles hopes are well and truly over now.


----------



## jasonm

strange_too said:


> A great result today for the boys from Woking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great work for the whole weekend.
> 
> I would also say Massa's titles hopes are well and truly over now.


Maybe...Maybe not....

We will find out on Thursday


----------



## pg tips

anyone actually believe they will do anything?


----------



## jasonm

Not really, it would be a bit of a PR disaster if they dock them points or exclude them.....They may take some constructors points and leave the drivers alone but who knows....

It will be interesting to see what happens


----------



## pg tips

$100 million and all constructor points!


----------



## strange_too

I might never watch again the way I'm feeling at the moment.

What did Toyota get when they drove around with an exact copy and nothing on the McLaren is from Ferrari.

I know Max doesn't like Ron but this is beyond a joke. When the traffic calms down, read these Paul Stoddart and Mike Lawerance


----------



## jasonm

Mmmmm Well we dont know all the facts, but this was out and out espionage with a advantage being taken supposedly....

Which is pretty serious shit....

But this is a very very harsh punishment


----------



## mrteatime

that is complete bolox....$100 million fine? Its bound to come down to a slap on the wrist on appeal (hopefully)


----------



## Robert

pg tips said:


> $100 million and all constructor points!


The F1 world has gone power crazy


----------



## jasonm

To be honest, the fine is secondary, the championship exclusion is what will be killing Ron...

50 Mil is a lot but its probably a fifth of their years budget, and Mercedes have deep pockets...

It is the constructors championship that the sponsors and the team really really want......

The whole thing is bollox, how can they fine the team and dock them the championship because they say that the team / car has had a advantage this season, then say the drivers can carry on in a 'illegal' (?) car.....

It should be all or nothing surely


----------



## jasonm

Robert said:


> pg tips said:
> 
> 
> 
> $100 million and all constructor points!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The F1 world has gone power crazy
Click to expand...

It went power crazy in about 1995....


----------



## Roger

Sir Jackie Stewart, a drive whom I have always admired, summed it up well on Radio4 this morning. Basically a witch-hunt by a section of the Governing Authoroties. It may be on "listen again" on the R4 site. He summed it up beautifully.

I am have real trouble restraining my postings over this...

Roger


----------



## pg tips

come on roger let it all out.

Ferrari are corrupt, devious, **** stirring barstidos! They have jumped on this just to win the championship as they have lost the battle on the track!


----------



## Roger

PG,

You have the masters touch....I cannot help wondering why a leading team would want to copy a second-rate car?


----------



## jasonm

Here we go









McLaren havent really been a leading team since 1998









Of course Ferrari have jumped on this to win the constructors, do you really believe McLaren wouldn't have done the same thing if it was in reverse?

F1 is a multi billion $ business, Ferrari ( and everyone else) is in it for profit, thats why they do it....This way they make more, thats what they do....

It stopped being a sport for them a long time ago, its only a sport to the fans ........



> Ferrari are corrupt


So McLaren arnt? They are the ones who had a rivals technical files...

The full reasons for the judgement are to be announced tomorrow


----------



## Roger

They haven't changed their ways since the turbo days (and before) when the prancing donkey were unable to match the technical expertise of Williams and Honda, it was the usual loose a race, start a lawsuit.

PG is right, they are a despicable outfit


----------



## jasonm

I think Rich is writing a essay


----------



## Regal325

McLaren havent really been a leading team since 1998 Been away on the Polar Ice cap this year?










I just watch F1, but I would reckon that having a Driver at #1 and another driver at #2 and being in the lead of the Constructors Championship, one would be eminently qualified to be called The Leading Team


----------



## rhaythorne

I've just been watching McLaren's press conference during which they give their reaction to the ruling.

Ron reckons that just because they supposedly didn't actually _use_ the info they've already confessed to possessing (even if it was only in the personal possession of Mike Coughlan) that they therefore shouldn't be penalised.

What crap! That's akin to whining to the Police that you shouldn't be arrested/charged/jailed because you hadn't used or sold a couple of kilos of heroin that they found in your possession. If it's illegal to have it and you get caught, tough ****, pay the consequences.

Basically they were caught red-handed (even if it was only due to the actions of one of their employees) with intellectual property belonging to a competitor and have been punished.

If Ferrari (or any other team for that matter) are ever found to be in possession of similar material, I would expect them to be punished in exactly the same way.

Jase said:



> I think Rich is writing a essay


You bloody spying on me?







:lol:


----------



## pg tips

jasonm said:


> Ok Pg .......If by boring you mean a Ferrari domination then maybe....BUT what seems to be overlooked is that they happen to be doing their job better than anyone else at the moment... everyone says how do we slow down Ferrari to make the show better, I say the others need to catch up! F1 goes around in cycles...late 80s it was Mclaren for a few years then Williams early 90s then williams then Mclaren ( Benetton got a couple too ) when Mansell and Hill won in 'their' seasons nobody complained, The fact is Ferrari have the whole package...........
> 
> Look forward to your views
> 
> Jason M










Oh how things change in a couple of short years and now they can't get it together on the field of play they resort to playing the "cheat card"

wouldn't suprise me if it was all a ferrari fit up. The Italians are sore sore losers always have been (well ever since the 5th century when Rome collapsed), Mussolini gave them a real complex and they still haven't got over it!


----------



## Regal325

If Ferrari (or any other team for that matter) are ever found to be in possession of similar material, I would expect them to be punished in exactly the same way.

Not if little bernie has any say in it.

As I understand it, one of ferraris leading lights sent the dossier to McClaren....(who knows why)


----------



## jasonm

Regal325 said:


> McLaren havent really been a leading team since 1998 Been away on the Polar Ice cap this year?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just watch F1, but I would reckon that having a Driver at #1 and another driver at #2 and being in the lead of the Constructors Championship, one would be eminently qualified to be called The Leading Team


That is of course correct , I wasnt really including this year as they have had the documets for a while I gather..Then whoops, they are a leading team.....


----------



## rhaythorne

Regal325 said:


> If Ferrari (or any other team for that matter) are ever found to be in possession of similar material, I would expect them to be punished in exactly the same way.
> 
> Not if little bernie has any say in it.
> 
> As I understand it, one of ferraris leading lights sent the dossier to McClaren....(who knows why)


And McLaren were dumb enough to say nothing about it?







Who knows, indeed?


----------



## Regal325

Who on Earth could ever celebrate winning a constructors Championship in this way?

Answer..... no-one, except for one team


----------



## pg tips

Jase are you seriously saying that McL's performance this year is purely down to ferrari designs they copied?









you can't seriously believe that?


----------



## Regal325

wouldn't suprise me if it was all a ferrari fit upProbably wont surprise anyone


----------



## jasonm

I cant understand why in this particular case you see Ferrari as being in the wrong? ( irrespective of past history)


----------



## jasonm

pg tips said:


> Jase are you seriously saying that McL's performance this year is purely down to ferrari designs they copied?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you can't seriously believe that?


No, your right, I dont, but it was a good seed to sow


----------



## rhaythorne

If it was the other way around and McLaren were accusing Ferrari, you'd all be baying for blood and saying that the puinishment wasn't harsh enough, wouldn't you?









But it isn't, and they're not, so get over it


----------



## Regal325

I cant understand why in this particular case you see Ferrari as being in the wrong? ( irrespective of past history)

If Ferrari had drivers at #1 and #2 and were leading the constructors championship AND THEN raised the complaint, it would have been credible........as it is, its smacks of "bad loser"


----------



## Roger

as it is, its smacks of "bad loser" Nothing changes with them does it?


----------



## jasonm

Regal325 said:


> I cant understand why in this particular case you see Ferrari as being in the wrong? ( irrespective of past history)
> 
> If Ferrari had drivers at #1 and #2 and were leading the constructors championship AND THEN raised the complaint, it would have been credible........as it is, its smacks of "bad loser"


How can it not be a credible complaint, McL have admitted having the files, I think that is cause for complaint......

They would have raised the complaint regardless of anyone's respective championship position , and quite rightly so......


----------



## jasonm

Regal325 said:


> I cant understand why in this particular case you see Ferrari as being in the wrong? ( irrespective of past history)
> 
> If Ferrari had drivers at #1 and #2 and were leading the constructors championship AND THEN raised the complaint, it would have been credible........as it is, its smacks of "bad loser"





Roger said:


> as it is, its smacks of "bad loser" Nothing changes with them does it?


So they should of done nothing?


----------



## pg tips

it's not that they are wrong Jase it's just the verve they have put into pursuing this. They could have just sat back and let the authorities have "sorted it" but no, they have kept on at this like a ferret in a rabbit hole. (or should that be weasel?).

You are wrong about boot on the other foot, I don't think any other team would have done this much harm to the whole f1 world just to attempt to get another teams points deducted so they could win the championship.

Ferrari's actions are undefensable, regardless of what rules any other team may have broken the donkeys have ruined this season for everyone!

At the end of the season I'll always remember McL's one two at Monza!


----------



## rhaythorne

Regal325 said:


> I cant understand why in this particular case you see Ferrari as being in the wrong? ( irrespective of past history)
> 
> If Ferrari had drivers at #1 and #2 and were leading the constructors championship AND THEN raised the complaint, it would have been credible........as it is, its smacks of "bad loser"


Effectively that implies that _any_ team that lodges a complaint about the leading team (whoever that may be at the time and who may only be leading because they cheated) shouldn't in case they themselves are branded as bad losers. You're suggesting that Ferrari should just let McLaren "get away with it".

Anyway, I'm off to celebrate







I'll pick up on this thread later.


----------



## Regal325

The prancing donkey are the big losers in this...OK they will now take the C/Champ, but only the tiffosi will have the bad taste to relish it.


----------



## pg tips

I can't believe how such a boring sport that most of us claim to not be interested in anymore can arouse so much passion!


----------



## jasonm

Regal325 said:


> The prancing donkey are the big losers in this...OK they will now take the C/Champ, but only the tiffosi will have the bad taste to relish it.


I dont think Ron or Mr Todt would agree with that !


----------



## Regal325

With good fortune we may well see BMW be #2 in the pecking order behind McC


----------



## langtoftlad

If Ron really believed his team was 'innocent' then the honourable action would be to withdraw his team for the rest of the season. And if that's not allowed for legal reasons, then drive around the track at 50mph - there's no point in competing.

...would have the advantage of making the constructors race null & void. Ferrari might win but it would be a hollow victory - a bit like that USA GP 'race' last year


----------



## jasonm

langtoftlad said:


> If Ron really believed his team was 'innocent' then the honourable action would be to withdraw his team for the rest of the season. And if that's not allowed for legal reasons, then drive around the track at 50mph - there's no point in competing.
> 
> ...would have the advantage of making the constructors race null & void. Ferrari might win but it would be a hollow victory - a bit like that USA GP 'race' last year


Thats just it, they were found 'banged to rights' They dont dispute they had the files...


----------



## langtoftlad

...given the expense of 'competing' in a race - why should McLaren bother until the end of the season - if they can't win?


----------



## mrteatime

i thought that the drivers championship was still ok?


----------



## langtoftlad

...but why bother?

Either they're driving a car benefiting from technology so who would value them being champions

or they're not

in which case, they've been stuffed.

In either case, if I were Ron, given the risk & danger to the drivers, not to mention the expense - I'd take my ball home and wait to play again next year...


----------



## rhaythorne

Here's the FIA Press Release:

http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Relea.../130907-02.html

So, more info to come today then!

It's also interesting to see that the drivers were not penalised in return for providing evidence. Effectively plea bargaining.


----------



## strange_too

You need to read this is written by a well respected Formula One journalist and Ferrari fan.

It sums up the feels of many Formula One fans, whatever colour cars they follow.


----------



## Griff

rondeco said:


> I seem to remember a question from Martin Brundle at the beginning of the season :
> 
> "who do you think is going to win this year then Bernie ?"
> 
> to which he replied : "Ferrari"
> 
> Says it all really


IMO Ferrari would do absolutely *ANYTHING* to scupper McLaren

*Come on Lewis....................stuff the !!!!!!!!*


----------



## rhaythorne

Yes, but like many other articles and lots of the posts in this thread, it takes the relatively easy way out by being merely critical whilst not actually providing any solutions.

I'm just waiting for the extra info. that's supposedly going to be released today ,then we may learn something more.

Griff said:



> MO Ferrari would do absolutely ANYTHING to scupper McLaren
> 
> Come on Lewis....................stuff the !!!!!!!!










Yes Griff, goodbye Griff


----------



## Griff

Oh dear me...........don't tell me you're a Ferrari supporter!!!??

*What a bloody shock!!!*

The fine that has been imposed on McLaren, and where IMO there hasn't been 100% proof of guilt, is utterly unjust, unfair, and an utter outrage!!!!























Goodbye to you an all buddy boy!!!

I will dance up and down with sheer joy when Lewis becomes champ!!!!!


----------



## PhilM

Griff said:


> I will dance up and down with sheer joy when Lewis becomes champ!!!!!


That's what you get when you drive a Ferrari


----------



## Griff

Eh!!!.............get what!!!
















*Their motto should be Ferrari's for Fairies *


----------



## PhilM

Lewis becoming a champion


----------



## jasonm

> and where IMO there hasn't been 100% proof of guilt










:lol:

Do you honestly think the the FIA would do this without proof!









You obviously know less about F1 as you do about Socialism


----------



## Griff

Ferk me!!

Not proof they had it!!!!

Proof in the way they got it and how................for feeerrrrrkkkkks sake!!!!!!!

Attention is in the detail Jasey poos!!!









I know a homage Rolex sub when I see one!!!!!


----------



## Griff

> You obviously know less about F1 as you do about Socialism


I know it doesn't mean communism Jason!!!!









You're getting to be a bit of a shadow, moderately speaking


----------



## jasonm

You crack me up!

So if I get caught with stolen goods and I knew they were stolen, you wouldnt think I had done wrong if I was given the goods by a bloke in a pub...

I hope you never get called for jury duty!!









And your right , the sub is a hommage and Im gonna vote Brown at the next election....


----------



## mrteatime

jasonm said:


> You crack me up!
> 
> So if I get caught with stolen goods and I knew they were stolen, you wouldnt think I had done wrong if I was given the goods by a bloke in a pub...
> 
> I hope you never get called for jury duty!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And your right , the sub is a hommage and Im gonna vote Brown at the next election....


i can see a pig flying over there


----------



## jasonm

Its a whole flock of 'em


----------



## Griff

You're right of course Jason


----------



## PhilM

Griff said:


> You're right of course Jason


Come on Griff, don't give up now


----------



## rhaythorne

Here is the 14 page document explaining the significant details behind the WMSC's decision:

http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/178...sion_130907.pdf


----------



## jasonm

Interesting


----------



## pg tips

Now the question is how much did Ron know? He was so adamant.

So Ron was either in the dark or he's a big fat liar liar pants on fire!

The punishment in nonsensical imho. If they are guilty as charged then the drivers points need to be deducted as well. Well at least Alonso as he clearly knew, it would appear that newbie Hamilton was either kept out of the loop or had the fortune not to send anyone an email.

Mixed emotions for Hamilton I'd guess, if he was kept in the dark what does that say about being a team player?


----------



## PhilM

After reading this it does make you wonder







Ron's not been using Daz has he


----------



## rhaythorne

PhilM said:


> After reading this it does make you wonder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ron's not been using Daz has he


Ha, yeah, an Italian version of "(Not so) Cleaner Close"!

In an Italian accent:

_"Hey Ron, how-a-come your rags are a-not a-smellin' a-so fresh eh?"_


----------



## jasonm

pg tips said:


> Now the question is how much did Ron know? He was so adamant.
> 
> So Ron was either in the dark or he's a big fat liar liar pants on fire!
> 
> The punishment in nonsensical imho. If they are guilty as charged then the drivers points need to be deducted as well. Well at least Alonso as he clearly knew, it would appear that newbie Hamilton was either kept out of the loop or had the fortune not to send anyone an email.
> 
> Mixed emotions for Hamilton I'd guess, if he was kept in the dark what does that say about being a team player?


Denis is a control freak, there is no way on earth he diddnt know what was going on.....


----------



## jasonm

And, if it was a few engineers and drivers acting alone, why havent they been sacked?


----------



## Griff

I have read 8.12

Whilst accepting that some are of course always correct, I think the penalty imposed on McLaren is monstrous and I have complete faith in Lewis


----------



## rhaythorne

Max Mosley was just saying that the $100m fine will:

1. do little more than effectively reduce McLaren's budget to that of some of the other teams

2. be spread around some other teams to help them and fund some younger drivers in the sport

3. possibly be historically regarded as an excessively lenient punishment

He also suggested that some teams might have been tempted to _pay_ $100m for the stolen information found to be in McLaren's possession had it been made available to them, thus quantifying the value of that information and the level of the fine imposed.

McLaren are lucky to still be racing.


----------



## Griff

That, IMVHO, is a load of catmuck


----------



## rhaythorne

Hmmm, now who's opinion should I value the most? Griff's or that of the President of the FIA?

That's a real tough one!


----------



## Griff

Who pays his wages!!??


----------



## jasonm

Great start to the Spa race!!!


----------



## jasonm

Congratulations to Ferrari...World Champion Constructors 2007


----------



## rhaythorne

Normal service has been resumed


----------



## Robert

Great race, ferrari 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th


----------



## rhaythorne

Many a true word spoken in jest.


----------



## JoT

F1 is just so boring these days; add to that only two competitive teams, petulant drivers, petty rules and now the latest farce of industrial espionage you have a product whose appeal I just don't understand.


----------



## PhilM

What a great race and even better result


----------



## Griff

Robert said:


> Great race, ferrari 1st, 2nd, *3rd and 4th*


Eh!!!!............................since when were they 3rd and 4th!!!???










I'm still backing Lewis, but there will be no *fairies from Ferrari* winning the drivers championship.

*Note that all you rednecks!!!!*


----------



## Robert

Griff said:


> Robert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great race, ferrari 1st, 2nd, *3rd and 4th*
> 
> 
> 
> Eh!!!!............................since when were they 3rd and 4th!!!???
Click to expand...

In fact, if you include Toro Rosso and Spyker they were 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 12th, 14th, 17th and 21st.

Can we just call it the Ferrari Championship?


----------



## jasonm

3rd and 4th McClunkers using Ferrari specs is what is being implied 

I have no doubt one or other of the McDenis drivers will win the drivers championship, but have you read the reasons for all this controversy?

Let me summarize :

McLaren have been found to be CHEATING by using Ferrari technical data obtained by industrial espionage, dont you think this casts a few shadows over the championship this year?

Whoever wins the championship is going to do so over a cloud and a shadow and it will not be a very satisfactory result and for me that is a shame because I love F1 and for all the banter I give out about McL it doesnt need this going on.....









I dont even know what you mean by 'Fairies from Ferrari









Redneck? Thats not even worthy of a response.....


----------



## Griff

You are of course quite correct Jason


----------



## jasonm

I know.......


----------



## Griff

JoT said:


> F1 is just so boring these days; add to that only two competitive teams, petulant drivers, petty rules and now the latest farce of industrial espionage you have a product whose appeal I just don't understand.


I know what you mean.

I can't for the life of me understand these Ferrari groupies on here.

Fancy supporting a bunch of redneck fairies. Just what J.......just what, is the world coming to!!???
















It's enough to make anyone squirm with embarrassment.


----------



## rhaythorne

Griff said:



> I can't for the life of me understand these Ferrari groupies on here.


Clearly you have much to learn. Keep at it and you may become elightened...one day...perhaps!


----------



## Griff

rhaythorne said:


> Griff said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't for the life of me understand these Ferrari groupies on here.
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly you have much to learn. Keep at it and you may become elightened...one day...perhaps!
Click to expand...

Oh............deary deary me!!

I have much to learn he says....................the hell you say. Only you and your mate in red understand the wider picture!!!

How often have we heard that kind of patronising crap before.

We must stand corrected by you and your Ferrari chronies!!!

Well the hell we will !!!

I come on here and I am entitled to say what I think and to what is my opinion.

If you think I am going to feel subserviant to your "superior knowledge" you can take a hike!!!!!!

Utterly makes me puke getting the high hat like that.

Crap to Ferrari and crap to it's groupies


----------



## rhaythorne

I find it highly amusing to be referred to as a Ferrari "groupie", especially as all the high-pitched screaming currently appears to be emanating from the McLaren camp.

Some people in particular certainly appear to have hot flushes and swoon at the merest mention of Lewis Hamilton


----------



## jasonm

> How often have we heard that kind of patronising crap before.


Many many times from you Griff 



> Utterly makes me puke getting the high hat like that.


Ooo say he with the highest hat









And I am of course correct..... 

Oh yes, this from you as well...



> Personal dislike wont win you any arguments.


----------



## Griff

You shouldn't confuse politics with F1

Sport is mostly about the personalities.

I have a weakness of siding with a personality or personalities or team in sport.

I'm not going to support a vulgar, dribbling, garlic belching and farting dart player just because he likes Gordon Brown.

Oh......this is hopeless...............you are of course quite correct Jason


----------



## jasonm

Yep, I still know I am, but thanks for saying so again....











> Sport is mostly about the personalities.


Thats a good one!


----------



## Griff

rhaythorne said:


> I find it highly amusing to be referred to as a Ferrari "groupie", especially as all the high-pitched screaming currently appears to be emanating from the McLaren camp.
> 
> Some people in particular certainly appear to have hot flushes and swoon at the merest mention of Lewis Hamilton


He's not known as Ducky Hamilton is he!!!???

















Interesting you bring a slant up like that.........







!!!


----------



## Griff

jasonm said:


> Yep, I still know I am, but thanks for saying so again....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sport is mostly about the personalities.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats a good one!
Click to expand...

Oh!!!!!!!!

Please correct us again, as you will of course be correct.

What is sport about.......................ah.....I get it..........it's about the policies.........and the only good sport is about tory policies..............!!!???......and when Ricky Hatton gives his opponent a good smacking, its his policies that did it..... is it


----------



## jasonm

Isnt being successful in sport due to ability?


----------



## PhilM

With all of this now finally out in the open, do you think Lewis is happy with Ron these days


----------



## Griff

Let's see if I can piece all this together then:-

You can only be successful in sport if you have the correct policies in place, of a Tory nature, that your secret first nickname is Ducky, that your personality is really nothing to do with it, unless Jason says that is correct, and somewhere there is a question of ability, which Jason has unbelievable put out to the forum for a positive response, and a correct answer has to given about whether Lewis is happy with Ron.

Now, that doesn't sound like any normal sportsman to me.............but it does sound like a Ferrari one!!!!















:lol:







:lol:


----------



## PhilM

My point was with young Lewis being a good clean boy he wouldn't have know about all of these shenanigan's, however now all the







has hit the fan how's he going to feel about winning the championship as well as his releationship with his boss


----------



## unlcky alf

PhilM said:


> My point was with young Lewis being a good clean boy he wouldn't have know about all of these shenanigan's, however now all the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> has hit the fan how's he going to feel about winning the championship as well as his releationship with his boss


Rich?


----------



## unlcky alf

PhilM said:


> My point was with young Lewis being a good clean boy he wouldn't have know about all of these shenanigan's, however now all the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> has hit the fan how's he going to feel about winning the championship as well as his releationship with his boss


Rich?

Irrespective of what has gone on behind the scenes, Hamilton should be extremely proud of what has been a remarkable first season.

Bloody edit time limit!


----------



## PhilM

Yep he may have made a good few quid over the past season, however with all of this surely he will be thinking that this has changed how this season will be looked back upon


----------



## unlcky alf

I'm not a F1 fan Phil, so perhaps I've got the wrong end of the stick but it's my perception that most people don't see Hamilton as having been complicit in what has gone on, if he wins perhaps it won't leave the same bitter taste as it would if his team had won the constructors championship? After all, his team-mate has had the same advantage (real or imagined) and is far more experienced, and Ferrari have certainly had the advantage of access to Ferrari technology







, if Hamilton wins it will be an incredible achievement.

As for how the season will be looked back on, I imagine that Ferrari fans will think it an outrageous travesty of justice, and Mclaren fans will think it..... an outrageous travesty of justice, and neither side will ever see legitimacy in the other's argument. Just a guess of course.


----------



## MarkF

I am not an F1 fan either but have followed the events with interest, much more interest than I can muster for the parades that masquerade as races.

IMO if Hamilton wins it won't mean diddly squat, he is tainted, maybe through no fault of his own, but tainted none the less. IMO it's now like the Tour de France fiasco, I don't see what the authorities can do, penalise the Mc drivers and it devalues the probable Ferrari winner, don't penalise the Mc drivers and it's devalues their championship. It's a farce.

I expect viewing figures to tumble, it's shame for the real F1 fans but I don't think anybody else now gives a monkeys fart if Hamilton or Alonso win, it will be a very obviously hollow victory.


----------



## jasonm

MarkF said:


> I am not an F1 fan either but have followed the events with interest, much more interest than I can muster for the parades that masquerade as races.
> 
> IMO if Hamilton wins it won't mean diddly squat, he is tainted, maybe through no fault of his own, but tainted none the less. IMO it's now like the Tour de France fiasco, I don't see what the authorities can do, penalise the Mc drivers and it devalues the probable Ferrari winner, don't penalise the Mc drivers and it's devalues their championship. It's a farce.
> 
> I expect viewing figures to tumble, it's shame for the real F1 fans but I don't think anybody else now gives a monkeys fart if Hamilton or Alonso win, it will be a very obviously hollow victory.


Perfectly summed up Mark.....

I think Griff hit his keyboard at random in his last reply for all the sense it made







( do it for long enough and you will write Shakespeare)









If anyone can be bothered to read what Max Mosley had to say...



> Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso would have been thrown out of the driversâ€™ world championship if Max Mosleyâ€™s view had prevailed in the â€˜spygateâ€™ ruling, the FIA president revealed on Sunday.
> 
> The governing bodyâ€™s World Council instead contented itself with disqualifying McLaren from the constructorsâ€™ title race and levying the largest fine in sporting history.
> 
> Mosley says he advocated extending the punishment to the drivers, but was in a minority on the WMSC panel.
> 
> â€œI would have taken all the points away from Hamilton and Alonso on the grounds that there is a suspicion they had an advantage that they should not have had,â€ Mosley explained.
> 
> â€œThere was a big debate in the World Council about whether all the points should go â€" teams and drivers.
> 
> â€œA majority thought they should keep their points, [but] about five â€" mostly lawyers â€" thought all the points should go.
> 
> â€œThey argued, how can you give the world championâ€™s cup to someone who may have had an unfair advantage over other drivers?
> 
> â€œThey have effectively cheated.
> 
> â€œBut the other side of it was, here is this brilliant world championship between Hamilton and Alonso.
> 
> â€œThe sporting people were saying, â€˜If you interfere with that, you are spoiling a very good championship. It wasnâ€™t the driversâ€™ fault.â€™
> 
> â€œBut there again, it never is.
> 
> â€œVery often, for example, a car will be disqualified because it is a kilo underweight, which will probably make no difference at all.
> 
> â€œBut you have to have this principle.
> 
> â€œItâ€™s the same as anywhere else: If youâ€™re outside of the rules, you are not in the game.â€
> 
> Mosley added that, should Hamilton or Alonso win the title, a question mark would forever hang over their achievement.
> 
> Asked whether he was disappointed by the verdict, he said: â€œSlightly. I feel that when people look back in 10 to 15 yearsâ€™ time and when all of the emotions have gone, they will say, â€˜Hang on a minute, we just donâ€™t know what would have happened. Would Raikkonen or Massa have won it had it not been for this information?â€™
> 
> â€œSo there will always be a question mark over it â€" there has to be, because nobody knows how big an advantage they had from that.
> 
> â€œBut that they had an advantage is almost beyond dispute.â€
> 
> The FIA president ventured that Hamilton, who has a real chance of clinching the title in his rookie season, would â€œprobably feel more comfortable if he wins a subsequent championship, which I am sure he will, without any of these question marksâ€.
> 
> Hamilton took umbrage at the suggestion that a title victory by one of the McLaren drivers would be tainted, insisting he would be a worthy winner.
> 
> â€œI donâ€™t have anything to say to or about Max Mosley,â€ he said.
> 
> â€œWeâ€™ve all worked hard this year and the way I feel is that the team has done absolutely nothing wrong and neither have I.
> 
> â€œI donâ€™t see why people should say that if I win, itâ€™s a tainted championship.â€


----------



## pg tips

What Lewis has achieved this season as a rookie is remarkable, there are those who say put a monkey in a great car and he'll win but I am not one of those.

Look how he defended his place at Monza against the world champion, could you see Damon Hill doing that in his 1st season?

Regardless of all the controversy his appearance has lit up the f1 scene and not just in the UK.

It has still not been shown how much of the "info" has been used and if it had any effect on any results, I understand the governing bodies are going to be looking at a McL car.

The whole fiasco stinks to me, it's a tragedy of their (f1's) own making. We've all said for years the rules by which f1 are run are ludicrous. If they are so concerned about one team getting a significant lead and romping home with the title (which it all boils down to imho, unless, of course, that team is Ferrari) then they should introduce a set car design. That way it will be down to the team that has a combination of the best tactics, mechanics and drivers which is what it should all be about Shirley!

Otherwise abandon the rules altogether and make it all's fair in love and war, let any team do what the hell they like to the cars!


----------



## strange_too

Have you heard about Renault having some of McLaren's data?

What happened with McLaren & Ferrari, happens all the time, like in any business.

When Kimi when to Ferrari I'm sure he was extensively debriefed about what they did. Walking around the paddock you can hear engineers talking between each other with an informed ear you get to hear about weight balance, what pressure they are running.

This is something not spoken about but many teams have recording equipment designed to pick up all the conversation. They employ lip reading specialists too, just to confirm the information.

Lewis has done a fantastic job, with a great deal of help from McLaren in his preparations for any eventuality.


----------



## MarkF

strange_too said:


> What happened with McLaren & Ferrari, happens all the time, like in any business.


I am sure that you are right but being caught doing it does not happen all the time.









It would be best all round if Raikkonen won. If a Mc driver does win then watch out for some sponsorship fall out, those guys, just like the public, are not stupid.


----------



## Griff

jasonm said:


> MarkF said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not an F1 fan either but have followed the events with interest, much more interest than I can muster for the parades that masquerade as races.
> 
> IMO if Hamilton wins it won't mean diddly squat, he is tainted, maybe through no fault of his own, but tainted none the less. IMO it's now like the Tour de France fiasco, I don't see what the authorities can do, penalise the Mc drivers and it devalues the probable Ferrari winner, don't penalise the Mc drivers and it's devalues their championship. It's a farce.
> 
> I expect viewing figures to tumble, it's shame for the real F1 fans but I don't think anybody else now gives a monkeys fart if Hamilton or Alonso win, it will be a very obviously hollow victory.
> 
> 
> 
> Perfectly summed up Mark.....
> 
> I think Griff hit his keyboard at random in his last reply for all the sense it made
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( do it for long enough and you will write Shakespeare)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone can be bothered to read what Max Mosley had to say...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso would have been thrown out of the driversâ€™ world championship if Max Mosleyâ€™s view had prevailed in the â€˜spygateâ€™ ruling, the FIA president revealed on Sunday.
> 
> The governing bodyâ€™s World Council instead contented itself with disqualifying McLaren from the constructorsâ€™ title race and levying the largest fine in sporting history.
> 
> Mosley says he advocated extending the punishment to the drivers, but was in a minority on the WMSC panel.
> 
> â€œI would have taken all the points away from Hamilton and Alonso on the grounds that there is a suspicion they had an advantage that they should not have had,â€ Mosley explained.
> 
> â€œThere was a big debate in the World Council about whether all the points should go â€" teams and drivers.
> 
> â€œA majority thought they should keep their points, [but] about five â€" mostly lawyers â€" thought all the points should go.
> 
> â€œThey argued, how can you give the world championâ€™s cup to someone who may have had an unfair advantage over other drivers?
> 
> â€œThey have effectively cheated.
> 
> â€œBut the other side of it was, here is this brilliant world championship between Hamilton and Alonso.
> 
> â€œThe sporting people were saying, â€˜If you interfere with that, you are spoiling a very good championship. It wasnâ€™t the driversâ€™ fault.â€™
> 
> â€œBut there again, it never is.
> 
> â€œVery often, for example, a car will be disqualified because it is a kilo underweight, which will probably make no difference at all.
> 
> â€œBut you have to have this principle.
> 
> â€œItâ€™s the same as anywhere else: If youâ€™re outside of the rules, you are not in the game.â€
> 
> Mosley added that, should Hamilton or Alonso win the title, a question mark would forever hang over their achievement.
> 
> Asked whether he was disappointed by the verdict, he said: â€œSlightly. I feel that when people look back in 10 to 15 yearsâ€™ time and when all of the emotions have gone, they will say, â€˜Hang on a minute, we just donâ€™t know what would have happened. Would Raikkonen or Massa have won it had it not been for this information?â€™
> 
> â€œSo there will always be a question mark over it â€" there has to be, because nobody knows how big an advantage they had from that.
> 
> â€œBut that they had an advantage is almost beyond dispute.â€
> 
> The FIA president ventured that Hamilton, who has a real chance of clinching the title in his rookie season, would â€œprobably feel more comfortable if he wins a subsequent championship, which I am sure he will, without any of these question marksâ€.
> 
> Hamilton took umbrage at the suggestion that a title victory by one of the McLaren drivers would be tainted, insisting he would be a worthy winner.
> 
> â€œI donâ€™t have anything to say to or about Max Mosley,â€ he said.
> 
> â€œWeâ€™ve all worked hard this year and the way I feel is that the team has done absolutely nothing wrong and neither have I.
> 
> â€œI donâ€™t see why people should say that if I win, itâ€™s a tainted championship.â€
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I should stick to moderating with the views you have

I wouldn't be surprised if you've got one of those red zip up jackets with a Ferrari badge on the back.

I'm supporting Lewis because *he's British and he has talent.*

He deserves support and encouragement.

If this was the States he'd be treated 10 x better than the crap he gets here in the UK, and from all you Ferrari groupies.


----------



## Robert

Griff said:


> I'm supporting Lewis because *he's British and he has talent.*
> 
> He deserves support and encouragement.


There are four talented British drivers - not just Lewis


----------



## Griff

Robert said:


> Griff said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm supporting Lewis because *he's British and he has talent.*
> 
> He deserves support and encouragement.
> 
> 
> 
> There are four talented British drivers - not just Lewis
Click to expand...

Yes............and I'm supporting Lewis!!!!!!

How many British drivers are with Ferrari!!!????????


----------



## PhilM

Griff said:


> How many British drivers are with Ferrari!!!????????


Irvine was British


----------



## mrteatime

im sure that the viweing figures will now be on the up! Theres nothing people like more is a bit of scandal. Its certainly livened it up a bit, especially since it was becoming a bit preditcable.


----------



## Guest

Im still waiting for drivers wives







why not ,there aint many ugly ones is there?


----------



## jasonm

Griff said:


> Robert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Griff said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm supporting Lewis because *he's British and he has talent.*
> 
> He deserves support and encouragement.
> 
> 
> 
> There are four talented British drivers - not just Lewis
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes............and I'm supporting Lewis!!!!!!
> 
> How many British drivers are with Ferrari!!!????????
Click to expand...

Thats good for you Griff, sorry if I dont support him just because hes British and has talent....

He doesnt think too much of the UK though , apparently hes moving to Switzerland because of the 'media pressure' and not because of the favorable tax laws due to his impending fortune being taxed heavily if he stays resident in the UK...


----------



## jasonm

> I should stick to moderating with the views you have


I come on here and I am entitled to say what I think and to what is my opinion.

If you think I am going to feel subserviant to your "superior knowledge" you can take a hike!!!!!!

Utterly makes me puke getting the high hat like that.

Oh sorry, I seem to have gone all Griff









No jacket Im afraid.....


----------



## Griff

A lovely hat to keep yer brain warm, as in luke


----------



## Griff

I accept the reasons Hamilton gave to go to Switzerland.


----------



## PhilM

Come on Griff, it's not like the hat is blue


----------



## jasonm

Griff said:


> I accept the reasons Hamilton gave to go to Switzerland.


Thought you might


----------



## Griff

Add some padding to warm up the hat


----------



## Griff

You're a lovely fella really Jase...................deluded................but lovely!!!!


----------



## strange_too

Just read the 115 pages of the transcript and there isn't much in it.

Still can't really see the smoking gun.


----------



## Griff

Aye................no smoking gun but a Â£50M fine, and an attempt IMO to scupper Lewis becoming Champ.

It must be a hell of a strain for him to keep 100% focused with all this crap round his neck

Did you note 8.12!!!?


----------



## strange_too

For those that are interested, here are the transcripts.


----------



## jasonm

Griff said:


> You're a lovely fella really Jase...................deluded................but lovely!!!!


You are of course correct Griff



















PS, I cant find 8.12?


----------



## pg tips

just read this by Andrew Benson

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/7006365.stm

From what he says (and he is respected as one of the most honest journo's in motorsport) the evidence only goes to prove McL did not use any Ferrari secrets in their car at all.

witch hunt iyam!

come on Lewis.


----------



## strange_too

pg tips said:


> just read this by Andrew Benson
> 
> [From what he says (and he is respected as one of the most honest journo's in motorsport) the evidence only goes to prove McL did not use any Ferrari secrets in their car at all.
> 
> witch hunt iyam!
> 
> come on Lewis.


I felt that from the moment the IAF got involved. Max is a "megalomaniac" and doesn't like that Ron is very powerful too.

They have decided not to appeal, which I think is right. I feared that the FIA are likely to really put the boot in and that wouldn't do the sport any good.


----------



## Griff

pg tips said:


> just read this by Andrew Benson
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/7006365.stm
> 
> From what he says (and he is respected as one of the most honest journo's in motorsport) the evidence only goes to prove McL did not use any Ferrari secrets in their car at all.
> 
> witch hunt iyam!
> 
> come on Lewis.


And Jason of course always was wrong















:lol:









Dear Jasie poos.........please consume this















......


----------



## jasonm

So, because a journo has an opinion, you believe it to be fact, this 'opinion' will get him a few nice interviews and scoops for a while 

Tell you what, if I find a soundbite from a journo with a contrary opinion you'll change your mind will you?









If McNugget was so innocent then they would have appealed the decision and done everything in their power to clear their name, the accusations by the FIA is about as bad as it can get and will cast a cloud over McRon for a long time, if they were innocent and could prove it they simply wouldn't rollover and take it up the chuff, especially Ron and Mercedes etc.....


----------



## mrteatime

"chuff" now theres a quality word.....not heard that for a while!


----------



## pg tips

I knew a guy from wigan who used to refer to everyone as "m' old chuffer" eg "how are you doing m' old chuffer".

Even women














I don't think he had any idea of the double meaning


----------



## Robert

pg tips said:


> From what he says (and he is respected as one of the most honest journo's in motorsport) the evidence only goes to prove McL did not use any Ferrari secrets in their car at all.


but maybe their 2008 car is going to be full of Ferrari secrets ...


----------



## pg tips

If it was Robert I bet they are re designing it as we speak


----------



## rhaythorne

Notice the obvious similarities between this McLaren cap and Jase's original Ferrari one above!










I think we should do 'em for that'n'all!


----------



## jasonm

They cant afford coloured thread in their hats anymore


----------



## MarkF

Don't understand your point PG, it does not matter whether or not Hamilton, Alonso, the pit crew or the cleaning lady had Ferrari information, they had it! What a load of bollox that link was.









It's up to McSneaky to take action against their employees if they think that is the right thing to do, however I don't think that they will 

I don't like F1, it's ****, and I don't like cheating, but I do like bright red racing cars so good luck to Ferrari. Bollox to the guy who was/perhaps British but is already buggering off to Monaco at 15 or however old he is, good riddance. Who does he think he is? A racer, no, or maybe a racer and a personality like James Hunt? I don't think so.

May he die the death of a thousand guinea pigs


----------



## unlcky alf

MarkF said:


> Don't understand your point PG, it does not matter whether or not Hamilton, Alonso, the pit crew or the cleaning lady had Ferrari information, they had it! What a load of bollox that link was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's up to McSneaky to take action against their employees if they think that is the right thing to do, however I don't think that they will
> 
> I don't like F1, it's ****, and I don't like cheating, but I do like bright red racing cars so good luck to Ferrari. Bollox to the guy who was/perhaps British but is already buggering off to Monaco at 15 or however old he is, good riddance. Who does he think he is? A racer, no, or maybe a racer and a personality like James Hunt? I don't think so.
> 
> May he die the death of a thousand guinea pigs










I Don't agree Mark, but that really cheered me up


----------



## pg tips

MarkF said:


> Don't understand your point PG, it does not matter whether or not Hamilton, Alonso, the pit crew or the cleaning lady had Ferrari information, they had it! What a load of bollox that link was.


Mark the point is the severity of the fine was based on the point that McLaren used the information to gain an unfair advantage. This point has not been proven and there is no evidence whatsoever to support it.



> It's up to McSneaky to take action against their employees if they think that is the right thing to do, however I don't think that they will


I agree with bothe points, I doubt Ron will do anything about Coughlan's actions.



> I don't like F1, it's ****, and I don't like cheating, but I do like bright red racing cars so good luck to Ferrari. Bollox to the guy who was/perhaps British but is already buggering off to Monaco at 15 or however old he is, good riddance. Who does he think he is? A racer, no, or maybe a racer and a personality like James Hunt? I don't think so.
> 
> May he die the death of a thousand guinea pigs










I like it when your on form.


----------



## Griff

It's when 'ee's not on form.......................!!!


----------



## jasonm

If anyone needed reminding, watch this to be reminded of how much F1 has changed ( and not for the better )


----------



## PhilM

Just watching that is scary, some great clips of all out or nothing







don't get too see much of that these days









Also a lot more skill was needed to even keep the car on the track


----------



## limey

pg tips said:


> MarkF said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't understand your point PG, it does not matter whether or not Hamilton, Alonso, the pit crew or the cleaning lady had Ferrari information, they had it! What a load of bollox that link was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark the point is the severity of the fine was based on the point that McLaren used the information to gain an unfair advantage. This point has not been proven and there is no evidence whatsoever to support it.
Click to expand...

but from reading through some of the linked info from a couple of pages back it is clear that McLaren had been told of Ferrari's pit stop strategy for one or two specific races. Now, you can say that that does not give them an unfair advantage but you'd be talking tripe. Every little thing that you can positively ascertain with respect to the competition is a benefit.


----------



## PhilM

limey said:


> pg tips said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MarkF said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't understand your point PG, it does not matter whether or not Hamilton, Alonso, the pit crew or the cleaning lady had Ferrari information, they had it! What a load of bollox that link was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark the point is the severity of the fine was based on the point that McLaren used the information to gain an unfair advantage. This point has not been proven and there is no evidence whatsoever to support it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but from reading through some of the linked info from a couple of pages back it is clear that McLaren had been told of Ferrari's pit stop strategy for one or two specific races. Now, you can say that that does not give them an unfair advantage but you'd be talking tripe. Every little thing that you can positively ascertain with respect to the competition is a benefit.
Click to expand...

Exactly as Ferrari didn't have McLaren's pit stop stratergy


----------



## strange_too

limey said:


> but from reading through some of the linked info from a couple of pages back it is clear that McLaren had been told of Ferrari's pit stop strategy for one or two specific races.


From the length of time the fuel rig is on you can calculate the amount fuel on board. The FIA fuel rigs meter the same amount of fuel a second, so the spotters just have to break out the stopwatch.

Computer such a Albert2 at BMW simulate the race so they can work out the strategies.

Formula One is much more than what you see on race day.


----------



## JoT

Somebody has put a great series on YouTube ..... "The History of Motor Racing"

Here's a link to Episode 9 which has a short clip of the 24 litre Napier Railton high on the banking at Brooklands, look out for Von Brauchitsch at the end or was it Schumacher?









1937, was this the last year before the start of health and safety in racing? They were typically 650hp with a weight of only 750kg in the following year cars were made heavier and the engines halved in horsepower.

Modern F1 seems to be very tame in comparison






Part 14 has film of the first race at Silverstone in 1948, the track at Brooklands was never repaired after the war.


----------



## unlcky alf

I haven't been to Brooklands since I moved to France, and I've let my membership lapse







but it's a great place to visit, particularly if you are able to go to the reunion weekend. Try walking up the banking under the bridge and then imagine driving around the course at 100+







It was the first purpose built motor racing circuit in the world and it really reminds you of just how fearless those early drivers were. It also played a significant role in the war.


----------



## limey

strange_too said:


> limey said:
> 
> 
> 
> but from reading through some of the linked info from a couple of pages back it is clear that McLaren had been told of Ferrari's pit stop strategy for one or two specific races.
> 
> 
> 
> From the length of time the fuel rig is on you can calculate the amount fuel on board. The FIA fuel rigs meter the same amount of fuel a second, so the spotters just have to break out the stopwatch.
> 
> Computer such a Albert2 at BMW simulate the race so they can work out the strategies.
> 
> Formula One is much more than what you see on race day.
Click to expand...

That's fine and all teams can employ such techniques. But the pit sto strategy was for the first pit stop of the race (lap 18 or 19, IIRC). So in that case there would be no way to determine based off timing the amount of fuel loaded, as it would be done in the garage.


----------



## strange_too

limey said:


> That's fine and all teams can employ such techniques. But the pit sto strategy was for the first pit stop of the race (lap 18 or 19, IIRC). So in that case there would be no way to determine based off timing the amount of fuel loaded, as it would be done in the garage.


Nope they refuel in the pitlane for safety reasons.


----------



## rhaythorne

So they'll all be Ferraris from now on then









http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/20/fo...script_exposed/


----------



## strange_too

Interesting quali.

Lewis on his last lap, coming down the straight, he was a lucky very guy. That could have been messy!!


----------



## MarkF

Why do they they have to have qualifying?

It's boring enough without qualifying ensuring that the actual "race" is an overtaking free parade, why do they do that?


----------



## strange_too

Welcome to the boat show!


----------



## jasonm

Havent watched yet, I gather it was a bit damp?


----------



## rhaythorne

Yep, a bit like the power boats yesterday!


----------



## hakim

Great race in Japan!

Well done Lewis and Ron! Way to go Mclaren!









Alonso, great shunt mate!







And you even managed to do it all on yourself. No one to blame this time!







:*****:

Great drive from Kimi too and all the rest of them that finished, except Alonso ofcourse


----------



## Griff

Where's Jase!!!









We will allow you to consume your red hat with a little salt and pepper
















COME ON LEWIS.....................sock it to 'em


----------



## mrteatime

Has lewis got a personality?


----------



## rhaythorne

Probably taking lessons from Kimi.


----------



## rhaythorne

Don't forget A1 GP on SKY Sports Xtra right now


----------



## jasonm

> We will allow you to consume your red hat with a little salt and pepper ohmy.gif


Why?

Its a shame his championship winning year will have all those clouds









Shame Shame Shame


----------



## TimD

You're not singing. you're not singing, you're not singing anymore!

Cheers,

Tim.


----------



## mrteatime

theres no geting away from it though....it is going to be tainted


----------



## Griff

If Lewis does win the title there will be absolutely nothing tainted for him and his achievement.

In fact, it will enhance the achievement because of his ability to ride the storm.......rise above it........and triumph.

If that does indeed happen in his 1st attempt at the tiltle, it will be an incredible and awesome feat at the beginning of his career.

He should be cheered on by all Brits.

Bloody marvellous!!!

The Japanese win reminded me of James Hunt's last win at that venue to clinch his championship title, and with the same weather conditions. Tremendous!!!


----------



## PhilM

I think Lewis will win, it's been a great season for him but I suppose that's what you get when you have the best of both cars


----------



## Griff

Don't be daft! He drives one car at a time!


----------



## jasonm

> If Lewis does win the title there will be absolutely nothing tainted for him and his achievement.


You stick to your opinion Griff and I'll stick to mine  ( And a lot of other people too)

It is a great result for him, and there is no doubt hes a very good driver, I still maintain its too early to say if hes one of the greats or not, he reminds me of a manafactured pop group, groomed to be put where hes got to....

Put most of the drivers in the same car and they would shine too..

Extra special cuddles from Ron Ron coming up I think


----------



## strange_too

The guy is especially talented and is very professional in the way he handles a car, aswell as the circus.

Only time will tell how good he really is, but to be leading the World Drivers Championship with an very good chance of winning it in your first year you've got to be pretty good indeed.

He did a fantastic job on Saturday and he didn't make a mistake today at all. He wasn't really challenged for the victory at any point.

His possible victory as World Driver Champion won't be tainted, by people who really understand the sport. Kimi, Massa and Alonso just haven't been good enough and have made the mistakes. With the current point's system consistency is the key.


----------



## rhaythorne

I enjoyed the race today, once it got going! The battles between Raikkonen/Kovalainen and Massa/Kubica were great fun to watch.

As to Hamilton's impending status as Champion, it might not be tainted by people who really understand the sport, but it will be tainted for people who don't really understand the sport. Unfortunately for him, that's most people.


----------



## jasonm

I fully understand the sport







And I really do know why you said that 

Its just that I cant stand Denis more










I know its immature of me but I wanted to see his 10 year plan fail at the last hurdle


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> I fully understand the sport


You must be the only person in the world who does then


----------



## Griff

jasonm said:


> If Lewis does win the title there will be absolutely nothing tainted for him and his achievement.
> 
> 
> 
> You stick to your opinion Griff and I'll stick to mine  ( And a lot of other people too)
> 
> It is a great result for him, and there is no doubt hes a very good driver, I still maintain its too early to say if hes one of the greats or not, he reminds me of a manafactured pop group, groomed to be put where hes got to....
> 
> Put most of the drivers in the same car and they would shine too..
> 
> Extra special cuddles from Ron Ron coming up I think
Click to expand...

It's nice to see a nice fella like you Jase immature with age!!


----------



## Griff

they don't want him to win.......peiod!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jasonm

Who doesnt? Who is 'they'?









After reading up on whats happened, I think he will be in the clear over this...


----------



## rhaythorne

"They" is anyone or perhaps everyone who isn't Griff, of course!

I don't think Hammy did anything especially wrong whilst controlling the pack behind the Safety Car; at least not anything that others haven't done before. I wish he had though









I've got a day out at Bedford Autodrome tomorrow


----------



## jasonm

Excellent!

Enjoy yourself Rich


----------



## pg tips

Hamilton will not be penalized!


----------



## Griff

jasonm said:


> Who doesnt? Who is 'they'?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After reading up on whats happened, I think he will be in the clear over this...


It seems to me all you Ferrari geeks want him to lose for a start!

They wanted to strip him of the 10 points or put him 10th on the next race grid.

It would be the only way he will get beat!!!!!






























Makes me bloody sick how the *stop Hamilton click *seem out to get him


----------



## chrisb

clique


----------



## pg tips

chrisb said:


> clique


----------



## Griff

chrisb said:


> clique





> chrisb wrote:-
> 
> Jonathon Woss
> 
> Angus Deayton
> 
> Barrymore
> 
> Sir Alex *Fergusson* (If he's a Knight of the realm, why can't I understand anything he says until I've heard it twice?)
> 
> Everyone with anything at all to do with Big Brother


Ferguson


----------



## jasonm

Your so funny Griff....

Of course we ( the Tifosi ( look it up ) ) dont want him to win, we dont support him or his team, thats what being a fan of a team/driver is all about....

Man City and Chelsea playing football, I wouldnt get 'bloody sick' if you wanted Chelsea to loose!


----------



## Griff

There you go..............blind loyalty!!

If Hamilton drove for Ferrari I'd support him as a *British driver* but I wouldn't support Ferrari.

As far as F1 goes it's about supporting drivers, and can't be compared to teams as in football

I prefer to think of you as a Ferrari groupie 

You're very funny too Jase.................


----------



## jasonm

:lol:

I needed cheering up.....Thats brilliant even by your standards


----------



## Griff

It's really great to cheer you up cock!!!


----------



## chrisb

Griff said:


> chrisb said:
> 
> 
> 
> clique
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chrisb wrote:-
> 
> Jonathon Woss
> 
> Angus Deayton
> 
> Barrymore
> 
> Sir Alex *Fergusson* (If he's a Knight of the realm, why can't I understand anything he says until I've heard it twice?)
> 
> Everyone with anything at all to do with Big Brother
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ferguson
Click to expand...

 It was intentional Griff "why can't I understand anything he says"


----------



## Griff

He is IMO a gum chomping Scottish new labour twerp!!!


----------



## Robert

Griff said:


> There you go..............blind loyalty!!
> 
> If Hamilton drove for Ferrari I'd support him as a *British driver* but I wouldn't support Ferrari.


Blind loyalty? You support Hamilton because he is British - surely also blind loyalty.



> As far as F1 goes it's about supporting drivers


Why? Because you say so? I think millions of Tifosi disagree with you there. F1 can be about supporting a team or a driver.


----------



## hakim

Fantastic qualifying Hamilton!

Way to go! Stick it to Ferrari!


----------



## pg tips

managed to catch 5live f1 last night.

It's quite clear Ferrari are disgraceful in defeat. When offered the chance to scrutinise the McL car they say it's an FIA issue and they won't get involved. What they really mean they is they know full well that the McL has no Ferrari technology on it. Luca di Montezemolo is an absolute disgrace.

I don't blame Lewis one bit if he leaves the sport, lets face it he could walk into any motorsport team in the world now.


----------



## hakim

pg tips said:


> managed to catch 5live f1 last night.
> 
> It's quite clear Ferrari are disgraceful in defeat. When offered the chance to scrutinise the McL car they say it's an FIA issue and they won't get involved. What they really mean they is they know full well that the McL has no Ferrari technology on it. Luca di Montezemolo is an absolute disgrace.
> 
> I don't blame Lewis one bit if he leaves the sport, lets face it he could walk into any motorsport team in the world now.


I completly agree. Since Schumi left, Ferrari seem to have lost their direction. Just proves how important Schumi was in keeping the whole team together. I was a big fan of Schumi (still am) and the team whilst he was still there but now the team is struggling, grasping at straws and looking like utter morons from Luca right down to the drivers. For Luca and Jean to say the stuff they've been saying these past weeks is just classless! Bunch of









They must feel like real amateurs to have a rookie like Hamilton steal their thunder!


----------



## jasonm

I cant see how you can say they ( Ferrari ) are struggling









They have won the constructors championship and Kimi is mathematicly capable of winning the drivers championship...

The McLaren has been the better car this season but hasnt been completely dominant..It has been very reliable and consistent through which is how they will win the drivers championship....


----------



## jasonm

Griff said:


> There you go..............blind loyalty!!
> 
> If Hamilton drove for Ferrari I'd support him as a *British driver* but I wouldn't support Ferrari.
> 
> As far as F1 goes it's about supporting drivers, and can't be compared to teams as in football
> 
> I prefer to think of you as a Ferrari groupie
> 
> You're very funny too Jase.................


Your previous posts over the last 4 years expressing your support for Button, Coultard, Wilson and Davidson are conspicuous by their absence Griff.....


----------



## scottishcammy

I know bugger all about F1. I just wanted to get this avatar on


----------



## jasonm

Bit o class


----------



## pg tips

jasonm said:


> They have won the constructors championship


No they didn't win it Jase, Bernie gave it to them to stop them crying



> The McLaren has been the better


too bloody right it has and without any Ferrari help


----------



## jasonm




----------



## pg tips

I'll be setting the alarm tonight and getting up to watch Lewis being crowned as world champion!


----------



## thunderbolt

Me too, Good luck to Hamilton.


----------



## limey

Griff said:


> As far as F1 goes it's about supporting drivers, and can't be compared to teams as in football


I disagree, *I* think it's both but it could be either.

I usually have a favorite driver and a favorite team. Right now I like Hamilton, he's a Brit & a rookie, he's handling himself really well, a credit to himself and the organisation.

As for teams, it has to be Ferrari for me. Always has been, since I started following racing and reading about cars. Many times over the years they should have packed it in based on their results and performance, but they were, and are, committed to racing. They are more than just a high-end car for the super-rich, or an ultra-rich racing team that couldn't put a car on the street. They are unmatched, in my opinion.


----------



## langtoftlad

Me too - but unfortunately, I'm going to work...


----------



## rhaythorne

jasonm said:


> I cant see how you can say they ( Ferrari ) are struggling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have won the constructors championship and Kimi is mathematicly capable of winning the drivers championship...
> 
> The McLaren has been the better car this season but hasnt been completely dominant..It has been very reliable and consistent through which is how they will win the drivers championship....


Don't worry Jase, statistically Ferrari has been more successful than McLaren over the years so who cares if they (or one of their driver's at least) happen to win this particular season. History shows that we had the first laugh, we'll probably have the last laugh and we'll have more laughs in between too 

No wonder Ron always looks so bloody miserable


----------



## jasonm

Amen to that......


----------



## thunderbolt

Just announced on the late news, Hamilton in pole position for the start!!!


----------



## Griff

jasonm said:


> Griff said:
> 
> 
> 
> There you go..............blind loyalty!!
> 
> If Hamilton drove for Ferrari I'd support him as a *British driver* but I wouldn't support Ferrari.
> 
> As far as F1 goes it's about supporting drivers, and can't be compared to teams as in football
> 
> I prefer to think of you as a Ferrari groupie
> 
> You're very funny too Jase.................
> 
> 
> 
> Your previous posts over the last 4 years expressing your support for Button, Coultard, Wilson and Davidson are conspicuous by their absence Griff.....
Click to expand...

So what!!!


----------



## Griff

Robert said:


> Griff said:
> 
> 
> 
> There you go..............blind loyalty!!
> 
> If Hamilton drove for Ferrari I'd support him as a *British driver* but I wouldn't support Ferrari.
> 
> 
> 
> Blind loyalty? You support Hamilton because he is British - surely also blind loyalty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as F1 goes it's about supporting drivers
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why? Because you say so? I think millions of Tifosi disagree with you there. F1 can be about supporting a team or a driver.
Click to expand...

You can support Sooty and Sweep for all I care!!!


----------



## Griff

rhaythorne said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> I cant see how you can say they ( Ferrari ) are struggling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have won the constructors championship and Kimi is mathematicly capable of winning the drivers championship...
> 
> The McLaren has been the better car this season but hasnt been completely dominant..It has been very reliable and consistent through which is how they will win the drivers championship....
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry Jase, statistically Ferrari has been more successful than McLaren over the years so who cares if they (or one of their driver's at least) happen to win this particular season. History shows that we had the first laugh, we'll probably have the last laugh and we'll have more laughs in between too
> 
> No wonder Ron always looks so bloody miserable
Click to expand...









:lol:









No high hat for you lot.









I hope you are a happy bunch of groupies.









The only way Ferrari could win







the constructors was after McLaren were totally stripped of all their points!!!!!


----------



## Griff

hakim said:


> Fantastic qualifying Hamilton!
> 
> Way to go! Stick it to Ferrari!


My sentiments precisely!!!


----------



## pg tips

*GOOD MORNING LEWIS FANS!*


----------



## pg tips

oh dear


----------



## Robert

Think you can go back to bed now PG


----------



## pg tips

why didn't they bring him in for drys a couple of laps earlier?









Button is flying! Go Jensen Go


----------



## Robert

pg tips said:


> why didn't they bring him in for drys a couple of laps earlier?


Yep, he was clearly struggling. And then a simple driving error....


----------



## pg tips

Vettel in the old Minardi 4th Jase


----------



## jasonm

Whoops .....









Go Vettle!! A lot of people say hes very good considering the car hes driving....


----------



## pg tips

what time is the race in Brazil? Gonna be a great final weekend now!

Who said f1 was boring? (please don't look at post #1 in this thread







)


----------



## Robert

5pm BST

The day after the RWC final.

Looks like a good weekend


----------



## rhaythorne

It's been a good weekend this time too (well, for some of us anyway )

Anyone watch the "Petit Le Mans" last night? Nailbiting finish between Audi and Porsche after 10 hours racing!


----------



## PhilM

That has to be one of the best races this season, reminded me of seasons of old









Even better with old Ron choking back the tears


----------



## rhaythorne

Hmmm, the Lewis fans seem rather quiet all of a sudden. Let's poke 'em with a stick










Griff said:



> It seems to me all you Ferrari geeks want him to lose for a start!
> 
> They wanted to strip him of the 10 points or put him 10th on the next race grid.
> 
> It would be the only way he will get beat!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :taz:


Yep, right as usual Griff









Whilst Lewis Hamilton may manage to scrape victory in the championship at the final race of the season in Brazil in a fortnight's time, did you know that an anagram of his name is "loathe slim win"?









More interestingly, HERE'S an account from Nigel Stepney's point of view of the events leading up to the espionage scandal between Ferrari and McLaren.

You may, of course, draw your own conclusions, but I can't help feelng that his actions were spectacularly foolish. I also suspect that the technical complexities of the rules added to the confusion and contributed to his demise; one man's "flexible floor" is another's "mass damper".


----------



## thunderbolt

Woke up late and missed the race!







:taz:







Just caught the presentations and the press conference. Could it be team tactics in favour of Alonso that they left Lewis out on worn tyres for a lap too long according to a team spokesman. Or am I being a cynical old Hector? Any way looking forward to Brazil in a fortnight.


----------



## SharkBike

One of your boys is racing at Talladega today...Jacques Villeneuve. Hope he gets outta the way quick...we don't take kindly to their kind 'round here.


----------



## jasonm

> Could it be team tactics in favour of Alonso that they left Lewis out on worn tyres for a lap too long according to a team spokesman.


Errr if that was in any remotely half true, Alonsos crew would be looking for a new job on Monday...

Dont forget the control freak Denise will have been involved in keeping his ten year experiment 'Test tube Hamilton' in the top spot.....



SharkBike said:


> One of your boys is racing at Talladega today...Jacques Villeneuve. Hope he gets outta the way quick...we don't take kindly to *their kind* 'round here.


You do mean Canadians dont you


----------



## hakim

First time ever that I switched off the telly half way in the race. Just a few points in my observations though;

1) Mclaren should have changed the tyres in the first pit stop and then left him out on bad tyres two laps too late,

2) Lewis came in too hot on bad tyres, probably punctured rear which is why he couldn't steer properly,

3) what the heck is a gravel trap doing in that part of the track?!?!?!? Tilke design :*****:

Well done Kimi. Drove superbly.

Lewis, we'll stick it to them in Brazil!


----------



## Griff

scottishcammy said:


> I know bugger all about F1. I just wanted to get this avatar on


Like that avatar a lot!!!


----------



## SIB

I assume the gravel trap is there to stop idiots like Hamilton hitting the wall when they come into the pits way too fast!!









Seriously, it will make for an interesting last race at Brazil now. I think it was God's way of making the season go down to the wire!!

Now, just need Alonso to take Hamilton off the track and Kimi to win the race and things will be as they should (sorry, long term Ferrari fan here!!)


----------



## pg tips

If by God you mean Bernie then your probably right.









I've long time held a suspicion that as f1 got more and more boring something had to be done and it does look like this years events have been scripted.

tbh if you were writing a novel you couldn't have really added much more drama without being accused of being unbelievable.

did you see the state of his tyres? Bridgestone told McL 10 laps earlier they wouldn't last and they should bring him in!

Big Ron got it wrong (again?). :*****:

Shaping up to be a good sunday on the 21st esp if England are in the RWC final!


----------



## jasonm

Just gos to show how fast things can change in F1.....

Its going to be a great last race....


----------



## rhaythorne

A1GP will be using Ferraris from next year









http://www.a1gp.com/News/NewsArticle.aspx?newsId=39204


----------



## pg tips

quali's for 2morrow

1. MASSA Ferrari

2. HAMILTON McLaren

3. RAIKKONEN Ferrari

4. ALONSO McLaren

should be interesting!

Go Lewis go!


----------



## PhilM

I think Massa is going to hold them all off and win  however it's what happens with Raikkonen and if he is fueled heavy.. as this would make it interesting especially if Alonso is as well


----------



## MarkF

Let the best man win.


----------



## rhaythorne

Stop hitting me with those negative waves. Kimi will emerge victorious, securing the driver's championship for Ferrari









I was disappointed (though not surprised) with ITV's coverage of the qualifying. Massa qualifies in pole for his home Grand Prix, but oh no, all they want to talk about is Lewis Hamilton









Edit: Cross-posted MarkF. Not sure what the flag is; something to do with Alonso? If McLaren crosses the line first, I hope it's him.


----------



## thunderbolt

Good luck Lewis.







I'll be glued to me telly tomorrow.


----------



## PhilM

rhaythorne said:


> If McLaren crosses the line first, I hope it's him.


Wouldn't that be great if Alonso managed to pull it off


----------



## MarkF

rhaythorne said:


> Edit: Cross-posted MarkF. Not sure what the flag is; something to do with Alonso? If McLaren crosses the line first, I hope it's him.


Asturian flag Rich, Alonso is from it's capital Oviedo. You can imagine how well the Renault colours went down in Asturias!

I would like Ferrari to win but can only see it being McCheaters, hence the flag.


----------



## rhaythorne

Good man. I knew I could rely on you


----------



## Griff

Hey Jase.................have you ever tried getting in a F1 recently!!??
 























I 'aint heard any news recently they are gonna make 'em bigger to fit armchairs















:lol:


----------



## rhaythorne

As comprehensible as ever eh Griff?


----------



## Robert

I would like to see Kimi doing good tomorrow. He's avoided all the publicity and has quietly driven well


----------



## rhaythorne

A well-considered and intelligent post; how refreshing









A win for Kimi is against the odds, but one can always hope.


----------



## jasonm

Griff said:


> Hey Jase.................have you ever tried getting in a F1 recently!!??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I 'aint heard any news recently they are gonna make 'em bigger to fit armchairs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol:


Griffs got a 'thing' about mens sizes at the moment I think,









I also hope Alonso is the first McDenis over the line, in fact I hope its the only Mc over the line .....

Kimmi for the big win


----------



## pg tips

Brilliant ITV coverage so far


----------



## jasonm

Yeah, is there anyone else racing?


----------



## PhilM

It's a one horse race, especially if James Allen has his way


----------



## Robert

Bl**dy ITV coverage - he drops to 18th during a commercial break


----------



## pg tips

that's why I switch to 5 live when the ad break comes on 

What a race, Kimi could be champion, I assume Massa will be told to yeild?


----------



## Griff

Aye................looks like Lewis has blown it!!

Ah well.............at least Man C won!!!!


----------



## Griff

Griff said:


> Aye................looks like Lewis has blown it!!
> 
> Ah well.............at least Man C won!!!!


Looks like not putting enough fuel in Lewis's car during pit stop 2 has lost him the championship


----------



## rhaythorne

I've run out of nails to chew! A good finale and a perfect result, for me anyway


----------



## Malersh

The funny thing about Ferrari is that they never make tactical mistakes.

Well done Kimi - a champion belatedly but deservedly.


----------



## Griff

What a shame for Lewis........1 point loses it

Well done Kimi.

I'm not sorry about Alonso


----------



## Malersh

Just spotted Jean Todt wears a Richard Mille. Didn't know that.


----------



## pg tips

Well done Kimi a brilliantly cool race from the ice man!

Wtf was Lewis doing at the start, he only had to stay on Alonso's gearbox to win.

The best f1 season in years despite spygate.


----------



## pg tips

Jase & Rich obviously haven't come back down to earth yet


----------



## PhilM

What a great finish to a great season, well done Kimi


----------



## thunderbolt

C'est la vie Lewis'll be back next year.







Well done Kimmi. Great race.


----------



## rhaythorne

pg tips said:


> Jase & Rich obviously haven't come back down to earth yet


Sorry, just washing my hands. Those McLaren gearboxes are really greasy 

As you say, it was a terrific season. I've already pre-ordered my 2007 Season Review DVD.


----------



## PhilM

Anybody feel sorry for Ron







he must have thought we've got it this time









Even at the start of the season with Alonso and Hamilton in the car, they thought Alonso would be able to pull it off for them, then it all changed after Hamilton took the lead in the driver's championship in May....then to get caught with the documents, fined and now loose on the last race









And to finish it all off Alonso is leaving the team









Yep what a Championship and great result for the team that won









Edit: Both titles, the constructors and the drivers


----------



## jasonm

A fine result for Ferrari and Kimi...









And for it to be so close is great for the sport, despite the shenanigans of the mid season.

I do feel for Lewis, but I honestly think this will do him good and he can learn from it. Anything can happen in F1 and today has proved it, I am certain he is a World Champion of the future.

Poor old Ron







Better luck next year fella


----------



## JoT

Hmmmm ..... something just doesn't seem right since Mclarengate .... Bernie the small saying pre-race he wanted Kimi to win and that Lewis had many years ahead of him ..... keeping him out on the tyres in China .... not fuelling him enough during the pit-stop today and the gearbox going wrong and then suddenly working again ..... hmmmm

I am normally not a conspiracy theorist ..... but .... it has all been too convenient ... Ferrari are now happy .... McLaren's season written off ... a deal perhaps?


----------



## mrteatime

JoT said:


> Hmmmm ..... something just doesn't seem right since Mclarengate .... Bernie the small saying pre-race he wanted Kimi to win and that Lewis had many years ahead of him ..... keeping him out on the tyres in China .... not fuelling him enough during the pit-stop today and the gearbox going wrong and then suddenly working again ..... hmmmm
> 
> I am normally not a conspiracy theorist ..... but .... it has all been too convenient ... Ferrari are now happy .... McLaren's season written off ... a deal perhaps?


im no expert in f1, but i think that you have hit the nail on the head there......reading between the lines


----------



## Robert

And Hamilton _accidentally_ used an extra set of tyres and had to hand them in....


----------



## thunderbolt

mrteatime said:


> JoT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm ..... something just doesn't seem right since Mclarengate .... Bernie the small saying pre-race he wanted Kimi to win and that Lewis had many years ahead of him ..... keeping him out on the tyres in China .... not fuelling him enough during the pit-stop today and the gearbox going wrong and then suddenly working again ..... hmmmm
> 
> I am normally not a conspiracy theorist ..... but .... it has all been too convenient ... Ferrari are now happy .... McLaren's season written off ... a deal perhaps?
> 
> 
> 
> im no expert in f1, but i think that you have hit the nail on the head there......reading between the lines
Click to expand...

The thought had crossed my mind as well. Something not quite right somewhere.


----------



## rhaythorne

Nonsense. Lewis blew it right at the start and Ron even said that their pit stop strategy allowed Lewis to _gain_ 10 seconds on the track. Not sure about the gearbox though. I wonder if Uri Geller and a few million Tifosi willing him to fail had something to do with it!. The extra tyres used in practice had no bearing on today's result of course, although it did cost Ron another Â£10,000 or so


----------



## Robert

rhaythorne said:


> The extra tyres used in practice had no bearing on today's result of course, although it did cost Ron another Â£10,000 or so


I thought he had one set less to use today?


----------



## Robert

Don't forget that Kimi had the most wins throughout the season - he was the best driver but just got a lot less publicity about it because of all the other shenanigans


----------



## rhaythorne

Robert said:


> rhaythorne said:
> 
> 
> 
> The extra tyres used in practice had no bearing on today's result of course, although it did cost Ron another Â£10,000 or so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought he had one set less to use today?
Click to expand...

True, but the extra set they had to surrender were "wets" and it was a dry race today so they had no reason to use wet weather tyres anyway. At least that's how I understood it. Could be wrong; it's all far too complicated


----------



## JoT

Fuel temperature irreugularities by BMW and Sauber overlooked ..... still no conspiracy Rich, Jase?


----------



## jasonm

JoT said:


> Hmmmm ..... something just doesn't seem right since Mclarengate .... Bernie the small saying pre-race he wanted Kimi to win and that Lewis had many years ahead of him ..... keeping him out on the tyres in China .... not fuelling him enough during the pit-stop today and the gearbox going wrong and then suddenly working again ..... hmmmm
> 
> I am normally not a conspiracy theorist ..... but .... it has all been too convenient ... Ferrari are now happy .... McLaren's season written off ... a deal perhaps?





Robert said:


> And Hamilton _accidentally_ used an extra set of tyres and had to hand them in....





JoT said:


> Fuel temperature irreugularities by BMW and Sauber overlooked ..... still no conspiracy Rich, Jase?


No deal.... Dennis would NEVER agree to anything like that NEVER, makes for a good theory and discussion but they lost out to circumstances, the Chamionship isnt won or lost in the last race, every race is as important as the other Its just not possible to engineer a finish like this one....


----------



## jasonm

JoT said:


> Fuel temperature irreugularities by BMW and Sauber overlooked ..... still no conspiracy Rich, Jase?


McLosers are appealing the decision...They will lose the appeal though


----------



## Griff

jasonm said:


> JoT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuel temperature irreugularities by BMW and Sauber overlooked ..... still no conspiracy Rich, Jase?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> McLosers are appealing the decision...*They will lose the appeal though*
Click to expand...

Eeeeer no.................*they should not* lose the appeal!!!









McLaren have been persecuted throughout this championship.

I agree with Damon Hill. If the rules have been broken, as VERY strong evidence suggests, then Lewis is indeed champ.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Something stinks here *big time*, and it is the smell of fuel!!!

BMW and Sauber *must* be penalised!! *They have broken the rules, and this can't be overlooked*!!!!!


----------



## rhaythorne

The words "straws" and "clutching" immediately spring to mind.

Even if the appeal is upheld and Lewis is awarded the Championship, I can't help but feel that would be an unsatisfactory result for anyone, especially Lewis.

I suppose Ron might be able to take advantage of such a situation to help offset some of his Â£50m bill though


----------



## synchro

jasonm said:


> JoT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuel temperature irreugularities by BMW and Sauber overlooked ..... still no conspiracy Rich, Jase?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> McLosers are appealing the decision...They will lose the appeal though
Click to expand...

Of course they will lose the appeal, it will indirectly punish ferrari and we all know that will never happen


----------



## rhaythorne

Even if it is upheld, I doubt it will change the result. McLaren will have to argue that Lewis would have been able to successfully catch and pass both BMW's if their fuel had been a tad warmer, to claim 5th. place and thus the Championship! Yeah, right









Most likely BMW and Williams will get a fine or a few points deducted, if the appeal is upheld at all.


----------



## Griff

The outcome has upset former world champion Damon Hill, who has accused F1's race stewards of exercising double standards.

He feels McLaren have been on the wrong side of FIA decisions on more than one occasion this season while other teams have escaped censure.

"It does get quite difficult to see where the consistency lies," Hill told Radio 5live.


----------



## hakim

On track, the racing has been fantastic.

Off the track, it all seems like another episode of "Hustle" with McLaren getting







in the end by Ferrari, Max and Alonso the :*****:

Really pathetic!









Plus points for Lewis keeping his cool and Kimi for keeping his head down and doing the biz!


----------



## rhaythorne

Griff said:



> The outcome has upset former world champion Damon Hill


Oh dear, what a pity, never mind


----------



## Griff

And also all those who think the whole sport is biased and skewed to the interests of Ferrari


----------



## rhaythorne

All three of you?


----------



## Griff

*Everthing is all fair and square then..............isn't it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## Robert

Griff said:


> The outcome has upset former world champion Damon Hill, who has accused F1's race stewards of exercising double standards.
> 
> He feels McLaren have been on the wrong side of FIA decisions on more than one occasion this season while other teams have escaped censure.
> 
> "It does get quite difficult to see where the consistency lies," Hill told Radio 5live.


I would imagine he has to say that, being President of the BRDC. Obviously going to stick up for British drivers.


----------



## jasonm

Here is what the fuel irregularities thing is all about...

No way will an appeal win...



> Article 6.5.5 of the Formula 1 technical regulations states: â€œNo fuel on board the car may be more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient temperature.â€
> 
> FIA technical delegate Jo Bauer reported that the fuel samples from all four cars showed temperatures 12-14C lower than the ambient at the time.
> 
> *But the stewards said they could not be certain the temperatures were outside the 10C limit due to conflicting evidence.*
> 
> They pointed to a discrepancy between the ambient temperature recorded on the Formula One Management timing monitors and that provided by the FIA and team-contracted meteorologists Meteo France â€" and said there was no â€œregulation stating in clear terms that for the purposes of Article 6.5.5 the definitive ambient temperature shall be indicated on the FOM timing monitors aloneâ€.
> 
> They also said they lacked â€œa precise reading of the temperature of â€˜fuel on board the carâ€™ which shows fuel at more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient temperatureâ€.
> 
> Their statement concluded: â€œIn view of the matters referred to above, the stewards consider thatâ€¦there must be sufficient doubt as to both the temperature of the fuel actually â€˜on board the carâ€™ and also as to the true ambient temperature as to render it inappropriate to impose a penaltyâ€.


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> Here is what the fuel irregularities thing is all about...
> 
> No way will an appeal win...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 6.5.5 of the Formula 1 technical regulations states: â€œNo fuel on board the car may be more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient temperature.â€
> 
> FIA technical delegate Jo Bauer reported that the fuel samples from all four cars showed temperatures 12-14C lower than the ambient at the time.
> 
> *But the stewards said they could not be certain the temperatures were outside the 10C limit due to conflicting evidence.*
> 
> They pointed to a discrepancy between the ambient temperature recorded on the Formula One Management timing monitors and that provided by the FIA and team-contracted meteorologists Meteo France â€" and said there was no â€œregulation stating in clear terms that for the purposes of Article 6.5.5 the definitive ambient temperature shall be indicated on the FOM timing monitors aloneâ€.
> 
> They also said they lacked â€œa precise reading of the temperature of â€˜fuel on board the carâ€™ which shows fuel at more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient temperatureâ€.
> 
> Their statement concluded: â€œIn view of the matters referred to above, the stewards consider thatâ€¦there must be sufficient doubt as to both the temperature of the fuel actually â€˜on board the carâ€™ and also as to the true ambient temperature as to render it inappropriate to impose a penaltyâ€.
Click to expand...

How convenient


----------



## Robert

I guess that rule will be clarified before next season then ....


----------



## unlcky alf

I have absolutely nothing to contribute, I just wanted to be the one to knock the number of replies over into 4 figures









Sorry "New member".....


----------



## pg tips

well done Robert, the 1,000th post in the thread!







and alf for the 1001st









The rules are bloody stupid aren't they?

Mind you Kimi did win in Australia with an illegal floor pan but wasn't deducted any points

the whole f1 hierarchy stinks, it's about time there was a root and branch clear out, a complete revision of the rules and a ban on Ferrari


----------



## unlcky alf

pg tips said:


> well done Robert, the 1,000th post in the thread!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and alf for the 1001st


B****cks, didnt notice, that'll teach me to answer the phone halfway through writing a post.

Can I demand a inquiry? oh hang on, I'm not Ferrari, so the odds would be stacked against me from the start


----------



## JoT

I am sorry guys but I still don't get the appeal of F1 .... Champ/Indy racing is better ..... the cars are only a few seconds slower than F1 and given they are 400lbs heavier it isn't bad going. A team will spend less than 10% of an equivalent F1 team, the racing is close and on an oval circuit very fast.

With a bit of luck Champ and Indy will get back together again in a couple of years and I am sure then it will be able to take on F1 which has become so tedious. This years Indy champion and Indy 500 winner is Dario Franchitti from Bathgate in Scotland, in 2005 it was Englishman Dan Wheldon.

Whilst looking for an Indy clip I came across this bit of amateur footage of the start of the Indy 500 in 2007, it really made me smile, check out the little kid from about 1'05" when he catches sight of the cars


----------



## jasonm

I love watching Indy on race circuits, ovals bore me







...But on proper tracks its like old style F1


----------



## Griff

So what you are saying Jase, is that new style F1 is a load of crap; and I would generally support this view when it is clear to anyone with half a brain that all decisions centred around irregularities will always come out on the side of Ferrari and its luvvies.


----------



## synchro

The desire to increase viewers has resulted in the demise of F1 as a true racing formula. Once teams were forced to use tyres not suitable for the track or conditions F1 lost all credibilty.

What is next ? Tell all teams they must complete half race distance on three wheels ?

Bring F1 back to what it should be Grand Prix winner takes all, no holds barred racing.

The 'rules' are now a farce keep it simple, size of engine, size of car.


----------



## jasonm

No Griff, thats not what I said









I do think F1 has changed, I do prefer the 'good old days' but it has nothing to do with your percieved and unfounded ideas about FIA decisions, you need to use the other side of that brain


----------



## Griff

I'm expecting money for results plots and race fixing to pop up out of the woodwork some time in the future.

There's a lot of money involved here, and I think Lewis has been on the rough end of things.

IMO the whole of the sport as it currently stands stinks like Bury Fish Market


----------



## jasonm

Come off it, most of the 'stinkyness' this year has been from the Woking direction...










Lewis hasnt been hard done by, he only lost by 2 points! No one stopped his championship win but himself and the team, if anyone tried to scupper his title they did a piss poor job, he should have cruised to the title in that last race but diddnt, talk me through how anyone outside the team influenced Lewes's result on Sunday....


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> .... they did a piss poor job, *he should have cruised to the title in that last race* but diddnt, talk me through how anyone outside the team influenced Lewes's result on Sunday....


Mclarens strategy in China and Rio suddenly became inept







.... I don't buy it at all

As the Griffster says it smells fishy


----------



## jasonm

Why?

What do you think happened?

I promise you, Ron would never make a 'deal' with Max, there would be too many people in on it for it not to leak to the press, the race engineers, mechanics etc....

Imagine the damage to the sport if anything was proved that the FIA made McDennis throw the championship!

The leverage having that information would give McLaren would be huge, it just diddnt happen.....What have McLaren got out of this deal? They lost both championships, its hard to see how they got a good deal out of throwing the last 2 races....


----------



## Robert

Look at the year Kimi had - a very well deserved title.

Lewis would also have deserved it but I think inexperience and adrenalin got the better of him in the last two races - Brazil in particular. Dropping from 2nd to 4th and losing a place to Fernando must have really p1ssed him off.

He was racing to win the chamionship and win the race and beat Fernando. A bit more experience and he would probably have thought - what the hell, championship is most important


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> Why?
> 
> What do you think happened?
> 
> I promise you, Ron would never make a 'deal' with Max, there would be too many people in on it for it not to leak to the press, the race engineers, mechanics etc....
> 
> Imagine the damage to the sport if anything was proved that the FIA made McDennis throw the championship!
> 
> The leverage having that information would give McLaren would be huge, it just diddnt happen.....What have McLaren got out of this deal? They lost both championships, its hard to see how they got a good deal out of throwing the last 2 races....


I agree Jase, it would be crazy for Ron to do a deal with Max / FIA .... but that's not who i was thinking about ..... take this hypothetical scenario

McLaren do a deal with Ecclestone and Ferrari to give Ferrari the title in return for Ferrari not pursuing Mclaren with industrial espionage charges. Just a fishy thought


----------



## Robert

Just reading back through this thread - 480 posts for the 2004, 05 and 06 seasons combined. Over 500 for this season alone.

Look at the TV ratings - ITV article

The rules and politics are saddening but doesn't look like its turning people off


----------



## Robert

jasonm said:


> PISS BUM TOSS ARSE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im not watching anymore


----------



## jasonm

Robert said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> PISS BUM TOSS ARSE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im not watching anymore
Click to expand...













> McLaren do a deal with Ecclestone and Ferrari to give Ferrari the title in return for Ferrari not pursuing Mclaren with industrial espionage charges. Just a fishy thought


Mmmm you think too much


----------



## Griff




----------



## Nin

Ahhh nostalgia. There I am on post 95, three years ago .... Still think the rules I proposed then (#101) should be mandatory now.

Nice to see it's still going tho. (the thread, that is)


----------



## jasonm

Ross Brawn is coming back to F1......

To run the Honda team!

Good luck to him, it needs sorting out.....


----------



## jasonm

I see Hamiltons selling shares in himself, and is moving to Switzerland 'to protect his privicy'









The ego has landed..........


----------



## pg tips

jasonm said:


> Ross Brawn is coming back to F1......
> 
> To run the Honda team!
> 
> Good luck to him, it needs sorting out.....


Honda need all the help they can get!


----------



## rhaythorne

jasonm said:


> I see Hamiltons selling shares in himself, and is moving to Switzerland 'to protect his privicy'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ego has landed..........


Or he's testing McLaren's secret new clockwork motor 

I'm more interested though in how Domenicali's going to do at Ferrari.


----------



## jasonm

> The FIA has rejected McLarenâ€™s appeal of the Brazilian Grand Prix result as inadmissible â€" thereby confirming Kimi Raikkonen as the 2007 Formula 1 world champion.
> 
> After two days of deliberations over the â€˜cool fuelâ€™ dispute, the governing bodyâ€™s International Court of Appeal upheld the decision of the Brazilian GP stewards not to penalise Nico Rosberg of Williams and BMW drivers Robert Kubica and Nick Heidfeld, who finished fourth, fifth and sixth respectively.
> 
> The FIA Statutes require appeals to the ICA against decisions by the stewards of a meeting to be lodged by "at least one of the parties concerned".
> 
> Williams and BMW argued that the appeal was inadmissible since McLaren wasnâ€™t an interested party in the stewardsâ€™ initial inquiry and did not protest the result at the time, and this argument was accepted by the four independent judges.


Congratulations Kimi, F1 Driver World Champion 2007 with Ferrari, 2007 Constructor Champion









I would love to quote all the various posts through the year that 'gave' it to Lewis and McLaren but I wouldnt want to gloat......


----------



## PhilM

In the end the best team won both titles


----------



## rhaythorne

jasonm:



> I wouldnt want to gloat......


No? Ah well, I'll just gloat alone then


----------



## pg tips

Ah so the championship of the "best motor racing series in the world"







is decided yet again on technicalities and how lawyers interpret the rules

Kimi should never have had the 10 points for race 1 as his car was illegal but I'm not one to be bitter!









The whole show is a farce, I won't watch next year


----------



## jasonm

Oh come on, you love it!

Best drama on the telly


----------



## JoT




----------



## Griff

pg tips said:


> Ah so the championship of the "best motor racing series in the world"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is decided yet again on technicalities and how lawyers interpret the rules
> 
> Kimi should never have had the 10 points for race 1 as his car was illegal but I'm not one to be bitter!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The whole show is a farce, I won't watch next year


Agreed!!

Chewing gum for the eyes!!!!


----------



## andythebrave

There is much to dislike about F1 and an awful lot of it is down to politics and the insane utterances of good ol' Bernie.

But, in for a penny, I'm off to Spa next year just to see whether my fond memories of going to GPs in the 60s can be rekindled by a live visit as opposed to watching on the goggle box.

Ah, Clark, Stewart, Brabham, Gurney, McLaren, Hill, Surtees, Rindt, Bandini, Siffert, Ickx, Amon et al. Now you're talking...


----------



## rhaythorne

For those that are able to receive it, MotorsTV shows heaps of "Season Reviews" over the winter months for all kinds of motorsport events held on both two and four wheels.

I've already recorded 2007 reviews for the British GT Championship (bloody Dodge Vipers and Astons beat Ferrari this year), British F3, European F3 (on right now) and DTM. There'll probably be reviews for the Aussie/NZ V8 Supercars, Dutch Supercars, Le Mans and American Le Mans Series and some NASCAR to name just a few. The most bizarre one I've seen this year is the Fun Cup, one round of which is an endurance event at Spa Francorchamps over 25 hours and involving a field of 160 suped-up VW Beetles


----------



## jasonm

> Formula 1 is set to run on slick tyres next month for the first time since the sport abandoned the concept in favour of grooved rubber at the end of 1997.
> 
> Bridgestone, F1's sole tyre supplier, will provide all 11 teams with three sets of slicks each to evaluate in the up-coming test at Jerez in December 4-7.
> 
> The Japanese tyre manufacturer claims the introduction of the tyres is in response to a request by the teams as the sport considers a return to slicks in 2009.


About bloody time.....


----------



## MarkF

Can we go back to the drivers running to their cars for the start too?


----------



## jasonm

> Prodrive has dropped its plans to enter the Formula 1 world championship next season due to a legal challenge and continued uncertainty over the eligibility of customer cars.
> 
> Former Benetton and BAR team principal David Richards had intended to rejoin F1 in 2008 with his own Banbury-based company by taking advantage of new rules designed to make the sport more affordable for independent teams.
> 
> But the FIAâ€™s plans to allow teams to buy complete cars now seem to be holed below the waterline due to concerns about the implications for manufacturer teams and, especially, independent constructors such as Williams.
> 
> The Grove outfit has threatened to take legal action over Prodriveâ€™s plans to race customer McLaren-Mercedes next year, while F1â€™s commercial supremo Bernie Ecclestone recently appeared to suggest that the whole concept had been misconceived.
> 
> Against that uncertain backdrop, and the fact that a new Concorde Agreement to govern the sport has still not been agreed, Prodrive has decided to put its F1 ambitions on hold.


Shame


----------



## synchro

jasonm said:


> Ross Brawn is coming back to F1......
> 
> To run the Honda team!
> 
> Good luck to him, it needs sorting out.....


Are they going to wipe his brain so he keeps ferrari knowledge secret ?


----------



## pg tips

picked this up in a charity shop for Â£1.95

Basically a pictorial records of f1 from 1950 to 2001 from the Daily Mail archives. 384 pp must be over 500 photo's!

Some cracking photo's in it, I might do a quiz as a lot of these pictures won't be on the net so you lot can't cheat!


----------



## Griff

When men were men and not the soft tarts of today


----------



## pg tips

Did anyone see top gear tonight?

Lewis Hamilton


----------



## rhaythorne

Yeah, he did a good lap in the Suzuki Liana or whatever it is. The fastest laps are usually the least spectacular ones which goes some way to explaining why some of you lot think F1 is boring to watch. And to prove that point there was the Richard Hammond feature in the Renault F1. Slipping, sliding and wheel locking at every corner and yet not going fast enough to get any heat into the tyres/brakes to make the car actually go properly


----------



## jasonm

Diddnt see it.....My Sky dish came apart in Fridays winds....No telly all weekend...Bliss.....


----------



## strange_too

144.7 on oily and wet track. A Holden had been dropping oil earlier in the day, from it's diff.

Mansell did 144.6 in the dry.


----------



## jasonm

Mansell had a 20kg weight penalty


----------



## pauluspaolo

Nigel's ancient too so Lewis had the benefit of young mans reflexes plus he's just about at the top of his game (though obviously not quite there yet) so I sort of expected him to be up there near the top. It'll be interesting to see if he does come back & do a dry lap - if he does then I'm sure he'll be the fastest.

I don't watch F1 much (at all) but I've never ever thought that driving the cars would be easy or that the drivers are soft tarts - the fact that they make it look easy shows how skilfull, talented & fit they are!! The feature with Richard Hammond "driving" the F1 car proved that. F1 cars are cars in that they have 4 wheels & a steering wheel (sort of) beyond that I don't think an F1 car & an average normal everyday road car have much in common really! The performance in terms of acceleration, if not outright straight line speed, must be just like nothing the average person has ever experienced. The car Hammond was in had a power to weight ratio of 1500bhp/ton, while the Bugatti Veyron (the most powerful car he'd driven up till then) had a power to weight ratio of 500bhp/ton!!

I'd love to have a go in one (well maybe







) but if I ever got it going fast enough I'd probably just kill myself - so maybe it's not such a good idea. I'm 44 (nearly) so I doubt if the opportunity's ever likely to present itself .... probably a good thing







!!!


----------



## rhaythorne

Quite right









They also showed a neat trick on last night's program where they hooked up a laptop to the Renault F1's engine and, by causing the engine revs to rise and fall to order, got the engine to "play" the British national anthem. I later wondered whether, if they hooked it up to the McLaren Mercedes engine, it would immediately start playing the Italian national anthem  I imagined the horrified look on the McLaren guys' faces as they scrambled to pull the plug before anyone noticed


----------



## limey

rhaythorne said:


> ... by causing the engine revs to rise and fall to order, got the engine to "play" the British national anthem...


If Hamilton was really talented he could do this while winning a race


----------



## jasonm

Poor Lewis...

Second again....









( Sports Personality Of The Year )


----------



## JoT

Good that Calzaghe got it and that Uhurugu only got 0.7% of the vote!


----------



## jasonm

Fernandos back at Renault for 2008


----------



## strange_too

He's aiming for Massa's seat in 2009.

Martin Brundle's comment on the FIA recent double standards is an interesting read. Here it is.


----------



## pg tips

jasonm said:


> Fernandos back at Renault for 2008


Another season when he won't win then


----------



## Alas

strange_too said:


> He's aiming for Massa's seat in 2009.
> 
> Martin Brundle's comment on the FIA recent double standards is an interesting read. Here it is.


Good attitude shown by Martin Brundle and a well written article.









Alasdair


----------



## pg tips

The not to prosecute Renault decision and the ruling on next years car again proves the fia anti McLaren stance, :*****:


----------



## strange_too

Alas said:


> Good attitude shown by Martin Brundle and a well written article.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alasdair


There has been a writ served by the FIA on The Times, over the Brundle column before the McLaren hearing. There has also suggesting that Martin might have a problem getting on the grid or getting "press credentials" next season.


----------



## rhaythorne

Unfortunately for the FIA they're going to come under attack whatever decision they take over "Renaultgate". If they _do_ fine Renault there'll no doubt be howls of protest from that team's supporters, just as there were when McLaren were fined. If they _don't_ fine Renault they'll be accused of duplicity.

Ah well never mind, Champcar season review is on MotorsTV tomorrow from 9pm - 1am


----------



## Alas

strange_too said:


> Alas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good attitude shown by Martin Brundle and a well written article.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alasdair
> 
> 
> 
> There has been a writ served by the FIA on The Times, over the Brundle column before the McLaren hearing. There has also suggesting that Martin might have a problem getting on the grid or getting "press credentials" next season.
Click to expand...

That's what the article is about


----------



## strange_too

They need to be fair and they haven't been. As they have been found guilty they need to be punished in the same/similar way McLaren.

I had heard that Renualt where going to quit if they had been fined/lost points.


----------



## strange_too

Alas said:


> That's what the article is about


I know, but not everyone will read the link.

I also heard about the possible press problems, from another F1 journalist I know, last week..


----------



## jasonm

I respect Brundle a lot...

Max needs to be brought down a peg or two......

Hes on the verge of being a dictator in the FIA......


----------



## pg tips

On the verge? Jase?

He's despot supremo!


----------



## jasonm

> McLaren published a humiliating apology to the governing body, Ferrari and the wider F1 community on Thursday, in which it acknowledged that leaked Ferrari technical secrets had seeped further into the team than its own investigations had indicated.
> 
> Along with the apology, which was prompted by a detailed report by the FIAâ€™s technical department, *McLaren offered to cease development work on three aspects of its 2008 car that the report identified as bearing similarities to Ferrari designs*.


Sorry...Couldnt resist


----------



## PhilM

Interesting read









http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7149915.stm


----------



## jasonm

My best mate thought it would be funny to get my little man a racing car for Christmas....


----------



## pg tips

Excellent!


----------



## mrteatime

great pic that.....he looks a very happy and contented chap, you must be very proud.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

obviously the car is making him smile like that......


----------



## jasonm

You want to fall out Shawn?









I am very proud indeed....


----------



## jasonm

2008 Title winning car


----------



## mrteatime

looks a bit small jason


----------



## PhilM

jasonm said:


> 2008 Title winning car


Also comes in black and grey


----------



## jasonm




----------



## pg tips

And here it is







THE 2008 winning car!



















.


----------



## SharkBike

jasonm said:


> My best mate thought it would be funny to get my little man a racing car for Christmas....


Wow...little Harry is growing up fast. Love the camo trousers...but no watch?

(Don't know enough 'bout F1 to comment on the car, but it looks like a cool toy)


----------



## jasonm

Cheers Rich, yep, I cant believe how hes grown up , its only been 10 months but so much has changed.....

He really does need a watch doesnt he 

I think his mum might disagree









The car is cool, it should be red though


----------



## jasonm

Hilarious!!!

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Formula_One


----------



## thunderbolt

jasonm said:


> Hilarious!!!
> 
> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Formula_One


Great find.







:lol:


----------



## PhilM

PMSL







:clap: some great lines


----------



## pg tips

*Johnny Sherbert*
























where did you find that? F'excelente









.


----------



## Robert

Only 16 days to go and it all kicks off again

Anyone fancy a Fantasy F1 league for RLT members? (for fun of course)

Fantasy F1 link


----------



## jasonm

Yeah, why not.....


----------



## Robert

jasonm said:


> Yeah, why not.....


If anyone wants to join, send me a PM and I'll reply with the league name and PIN number

Think you need to set up your team and then join the private league.

Jason, I'll PM you now to see if it all works


----------



## Robert

Oh, by the way it costs Â£10 to register your team but nothing to join the league.

Unless anyone can find a free one .....


----------



## pg tips

Lewis on Pole, Kimi can't get his Ferarsey to work!


----------



## JoT

Bloody hell is it that time of the year already?!!


----------



## adrian

JoT said:


> Bloody hell is it that time of the year already?!!


With 74 pages and almost 1100 replies this thread must be older that the Internet itself.







:lol:


----------



## jasonm

We will see......

Lets not get all carried away with predictions, I would have to have to say 'I told you so' ....Again.......









Its a long season.......


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> We will see......
> 
> Lets not get all carried away with predictions, I would have to have to say 'I told you so' ....Again.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its a long season.......


Mclaren might do better this year running their own car


----------



## adrian

The Aussie GP is about to begin and they showed on telly the temperature there is 36C. Here is snowing. Effin' A+.


----------



## adrian

Very dramatic GP. Luckily nobody was killed.


----------



## Robert

Quote of the day has to be 'I'll kick the **** out the little [email protected]@rd'. Coulthard talking about Massa









Bet they don't play that in the afternoon replay


----------



## jasonm

Best result of the race has to be the Williams in third, I really really hope this means they are back on form....


----------



## pg tips

Go Lewis, Go Lewis, Go Lewis!


----------



## Jonmurgie

Good race... lots of action and an easy win for Hamilton


----------



## nursegladys

I think with the removal of all those electronic aids it should make the drivers more responsible for the driving rather than a black box. Great race BTW, did you see Hammy put his watch on just before he went onto the podium!!


----------



## jasonm

F1 is coming back to the BBC!









I hope they can remember how to do it









Can you believe its been 12 years since they last hosted it


----------



## Griff

pg tips said:


> Go Lewis, Go Lewis, Go Lewis!


----------



## PhilM

jasonm said:


> F1 is coming back to the BBC!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope they can remember how to do it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you believe its been 12 years since they last hosted it


Just think no more bl****y adverts


----------



## pg tips

Hooray no more bloody advert breaks!

As long as ITV keep Ryder, Brundel, Blundell and Allen! I wouldn't mind too much if louise came over to the beeb although she does look like DC in drag at times!

I used to bore the 710 stupid playing the base line to the bbc f1 theme, so I hope they bring it back!


----------



## b11ocx

jasonm said:


> F1 is coming back to the BBC!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope they can remember how to do it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you believe its been 12 years since they last hosted it


Bring Back "The Chain"

Give Away "James Allen"


----------



## minkle

Great news, just hope Brundle moves too.

No adverts





































How many people get up to watch the race live? I managed to watch them all live a few years ago, still proud of that! Think i saw most qualifying sessions too. Do try to watch them all live but its just not possible anymore!


----------



## Robert

I was up at 4am on Sunday.









I've woken at 4 every day since


----------



## b11ocx

Used to get up, but since the advent of Hard Disk Recorders, I watch anything with adverts delayed, so I can skip through the "Hair Product - I'm Worth It" [email protected]


----------



## minkle

b11ocx said:


> Used to get up, but since the advent of Hard Disk Recorders, I watch anything with adverts delayed, so I can skip through the "Hair Product - I'm Worth It" [email protected]


I try not to watch the re-runs and never recorded it, just not the same if its not live!


----------



## jasonm

Iused to get up too...

This was in those carefree days of 'BH' ( before Harry) ( and before Sky +)


----------



## b11ocx

minkle said:


> b11ocx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Used to get up, but since the advent of Hard Disk Recorders, I watch anything with adverts delayed, so I can skip through the "Hair Product - I'm Worth It" [email protected]
> 
> 
> 
> I try not to watch the re-runs and never recorded it, just not the same if its not live!
Click to expand...

Sometimes the recording is only on time delay of a few mins, but I can certainly see your point of view. Fortunatley, we will not need to worry about the adverts soon.

The other issue with recording, even for a short period, is that it is easy to get told what happened.... I got told about Australia by my wife, who came in half way through watching it saying "Lewis Won !"


----------



## jasonm

pg tips said:


> Go Lewis, Go Lewis, Go Lewis!


I wish he would.......


----------



## andythebrave

b11ocx said:


> I got told about Australia by my wife, who came in half way through watching it saying "Lewis Won !"


Grounds for uncontestable divorce surely.


----------



## andythebrave

Back on the Beeb - that's great.

Who remembers the race (two years ago?) when ITV cut to a commercial break as the leader was half way round the last lap and we missed the finish?

No more of that then but I suppose the dipsticks who made the decision to give it to ITV in the first place are still around and contemplating what stupidity to foist on the unsuspecting public next time.

Anyway, let's hope the Beeb brings that girl who was on ITV doing paddock interviews a couple of years ago (ish) - the one with the zipper top where the zip height varied from race to race.....

I used to watch every race live. That all changed when the babies started rolling down the production line. Now I daren't watch a race finishing around 6 as I'll have to be up again an hour later for nappypoos and milkies. And to look after the babies too.


----------



## b11ocx

andythebrave said:


> b11ocx said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got told about Australia by my wife, who came in half way through watching it saying "Lewis Won !"
> 
> 
> 
> Grounds for uncontestable divorce surely.
Click to expand...

Possibly, but she is talking about buying me something expensive for my birthday, so I forgive her.


----------



## andythebrave

b11ocx said:


> andythebrave said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b11ocx said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got told about Australia by my wife, who came in half way through watching it saying "Lewis Won !"
> 
> 
> 
> Grounds for uncontestable divorce surely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Possibly, but she is talking about buying me something expensive for my birthday, so I forgive her.
Click to expand...

Ah I see. So you can withdraw your claim for alimony in a wanton display of magnanimity


----------



## pg tips

andythebrave said:


> I suppose the dipsticks who made the decision to give it to ITV in the first place are still around and contemplating what stupidity to foist on the unsuspecting public next time.


Yep the dipsticks name is Bernie Ecclestone, he took it off the beeb and he has given it back to them!


----------



## b11ocx

pg tips said:


> andythebrave said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose the dipsticks who made the decision to give it to ITV in the first place are still around and contemplating what stupidity to foist on the unsuspecting public next time.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep the dipsticks name is Bernie Ecclestone, he took it off the beeb and he has given it back to them!
Click to expand...

I think it is probably fair to say that Bernie does not live on the same planet I do... not sure if that says something about him or about me !


----------



## PhilM

Looks like it's going to be a good weekend in Malaysia


----------



## pg tips

Lewis got held up in traffic







should be interesting though, at least it looks as if Ferrari will turn up to race this week, I bet at least one of their cars doesn't finish though.


----------



## jasonm

I had the news on this morning and it was ''Coming up, Lewis has big problems in qualifying in Malaysia'' .......It turns out he was on the second row









Talk about sensationalist journalism....


----------



## JoT

Both McLaren cars have just been penalised 5 places for some reason


----------



## PhilM

JoT said:


> Both McLaren cars have just been penalised 5 places for some reason


According to the bbc website, it's down to impeding rivals during qualifying.


----------



## pg tips

Na I bet it was something like ferrari not liking what aftershave Lewis was wearing!


----------



## PhilM

pg tips said:


> Na I bet it was something like ferrari not liking what aftershave Lewis was wearing!


Well I know the beeb get things wrong sometimes but this is going a bit far


----------



## jasonm

Normal service has resumed


----------



## PhilM

Managed to watch the last hour this morning, it's good to see Kimi back on winning form









Just need Masa to start finishing, that way they can get both titles again


----------



## JoT

Anyone read the accounts of max Mosley's nocturnal activities ..... seems he is a chip off the old Oswald block









It was alleged by the News of the World that there were 5 hookers, Nazi unforms, being beaten till he bleeds, whilst shouting in German. His dad would have been proud









The Nazi overtones aside I am impressed that the old boy (he is 68 this year) has the energy when most of us will be reaching pipe and slipper stage of our lives so to speak


----------



## JoT

Good old Max digging himself deeper into it









http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtm...03/ummos303.xml


----------



## PhilM

What was he thinking .... this isn't going to go away for a while


----------



## PhilM

A Ferrari one and two ... first for the season







Now with BMW finally getting there act together also it's looking like it's going to be a great season


----------



## thunderbolt

Lewis had a bit of a howler. Crap start, then it seems that Alonso lifted off and as a result, Lewis rear ends him losing his front wing.


----------



## PhilM

thunderbolt said:


> Alonso lifted off and as a result, Lewis rear ends him losing his front wing.


Wasn't a great start for him was it, as for the incident with Alonso I doubt we will ever really find out what really happend...


----------



## jasonm

thunderbolt said:


> Lewis had a bit of a howler. Crap start, *then it seems that Alonso lifted off* and as a result, Lewis rear ends him losing his front wing.


Mmmm I would be surprised if he did it deliberately, it would be very easy to check the data log if McNuggets lodged a complaint....


----------



## thunderbolt

I know that there's no love lost between them, but I also think it's highly improbable that Alonso did it deliberately, especially as they were both in the middle of the pack.


----------



## PhilM

thunderbolt said:


> I know that there's no love lost between them, but I also think it's highly improbable that Alonso did it deliberately, especially as they were both in the middle of the pack.


Oh well I don't know, it's been done before ....


----------



## JoT

The most intersting thing to happen in F1 for years is Max's activity







says a lot about my opinion of the racing ...... it's clever and technological but BORING .... the only good bit is the start after which I usually switch channels


----------



## mrteatime

JoT said:


> The most intersting thing to happen in F1 for years is Max's activity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> says a lot about my opinion of the racing ...... it's clever and technological but BORING .... the only good bit is the start after which I usually switch channels


----------



## Jonmurgie

They are slowly removing more and more of the technical aids and it's getting more interesting because of it... 3 races in and they have all been pretty interesting IMO









Especially the massive progress BMW seem to have made, splitting the Ferrari and McLaren teams









Next year they loose a load of their aerodynamics and god knows what else... best time for F1 in the past 5/6 years IMHO


----------



## JoT

Jonmurgie said:


> They are slowly removing more and more of the technical aids and it's getting more interesting because of it... 3 races in and they have all been pretty interesting IMO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Especially the massive progress BMW seem to have made, splitting the Ferrari and McLaren teams
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next year they loose a load of their aerodynamics and god knows what else... best time for F1 in the past 5/6 years IMHO


Ok I hadn't realised that ... I will watch the next one







but will blame you if I dont enjoy it


----------



## PhilM

Jonmurgie said:


> They are slowly removing more and more of the technical aids and it's getting more interesting because of it... 3 races in and they have all been pretty interesting IMO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Especially the massive progress BMW seem to have made, splitting the Ferrari and McLaren teams
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next year they loose a load of their aerodynamics and god knows what else... best time for F1 in the past 5/6 years IMHO


It's also helping with sorting the men from the boys, the removal of traction control is now bringing into play tyres a lot more with the drivers that were a bit heavy on the throttle before ..


----------



## Robert

Jonmurgie said:


> They are slowly removing more and more of the technical aids and it's getting more interesting because of it... 3 races in and they have all been pretty interesting IMO


Yep, should start to see who the best drivers actually are now


----------



## JoT

Just seen the news ... what on earth were Button and Coulhard thinking?


----------



## JoT

Now if F1 had a driver like Danica Patrick I might be more interested .... she won her first Indy race this weekend :tongue2:


----------



## Robert

And she is sponsored by Tissot


----------



## JoT




----------



## b11ocx

JoT said:


>


Had Her.... and her mate


----------



## adrian

She's very beautiful.


----------



## w.h.s

can she wear a nazi outfit!


----------



## Stan

w.h.s said:


> can she wear a nazi outfit!


Great comment and just what the forum needs.

Consider yourself censured and being monitored mate.


----------



## JoT

28 minues into the race and Ferrari are disapearing into the distance ...... :lazy2:


----------



## PhilM

JoT said:


> 28 minues into the race and Ferrari are disapearing into the distance ...... :lazy2:


Come on they had a tough year last year  what more do you expect, Ron hasn't got any blue prints this year


----------



## Andy Tims

1st lap aside, there were 2 overtakes on the track & for position during today's race . Yet another one I "watched" most of at 6X off the Sky+ box :yawn: :yawn: :sleep1: :sleep1:

But the WSP from Assen - well :clap:


----------



## jasonm

Both Ferraris qualified on the front row for Monaco 

Go Massa!


----------



## minkle

Caught the last 4 mins at work today,very pleased with 6th for Rosberg  

Gutted that im extremely unlikely to see the race,if any


----------



## PhilM

Masa was truly outstanding, talk about a flying lap... he was speachless in the press room after qualifying unk:


----------



## Jonmurgie

Excellent race... lots going on and a great drive by Hamilton to win 

Have to feel sooooooooooo sorry for Sutil and Force India for that incident 8 minutes before the end though!


----------



## pg tips

The best driver won again :notworthy: 

Kimi is a right plonker, alright he wanted 3rd but to drive like that after they had been behind the SC for half a dozen laps!


----------



## jasonm

Lucky Lewis does it again.....


----------



## in_denial

jasonm said:


> Lucky Lewis does it again.....


I dunno Jase, I thought you'd have a bit more empathy for the lad, what with having a nipper of your own now ^_^

And as for Kimi cynically taking out Sutil to prevent him finishing ahead of him in a car with the same engine... [1]

-- Tim

[1] Joke!


----------



## rhaythorne

In reference to a comment Jase made in another thread, how about:

www.buyhamiltoninacage.com... [2]

[2] Also a Joke!...

...Oh, I dunno though 

Could've been anybody's race. I had a Â£5 bet on Glock to beat Rosberg which looked a bit touch'n'go for a while 'til Rosberg lost it


----------



## pg tips

PhilM said:


> What was he thinking .... this isn't going to go away for a while


Can you believe it? Max has surrvived the vote of confidence! How many votes did he buy I wonder?

The FIA will fall apart now!


----------



## in_denial

pg tips said:


> PhilM said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was he thinking .... this isn't going to go away for a while
> 
> 
> 
> Can you believe it? Max has surrvived the vote of confidence! How many votes did he buy I wonder?
> 
> The FIA will fall apart now!
Click to expand...

Unbelievable -- perhaps the FIA voters were just following orders?

-- Tim


----------



## pg tips

You Vil obey me h34r:


----------



## minkle

Come on williams!

Very happy that i get home from work and get to see qualifying


----------



## jasonm

Damn rookie......


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> Damn rookie......


I turned it on just in tine to see Hamilton mess up :lol: Back to Austria v Croatia


----------



## PhilM

Good to see DC back on the podium, missed the shunt with Hamilton but will be watching the replay later for sure


----------



## Robert

The Hamilton's aren't having much luck. Lewis ignores a red light and father spins a Porsche off the road in a 30mph limit !!

I was bored and went out to wash the car - missed Hamilton crashing and Coulthards podium. Would've been the best race to watch so far


----------



## jasonm

It was a good race, Massa drove well, but Im very glad the BMWs did well, its nice to see it mixed up.....

Coulthard looked very very happy with himself..


----------



## Robert

Robert said:


> I was bored and went out to wash the car - missed Hamilton crashing and Coulthards podium. Would've been the best race to watch so far


Oh ! Highlights on ITV at 11.45


----------



## SIB

pg tips said:


> PhilM said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was he thinking .... this isn't going to go away for a while
> 
> 
> 
> Can you believe it? Max has surrvived the vote of confidence! How many votes did he buy I wonder?
> 
> The FIA will fall apart now!
Click to expand...

What's the big deal with Max and what he did? If he was doing it on FIA time in an FIA office with kiddies i could probably just about understand all the fuss but in his own time, he had an orgy with other consenting (albiet paid) adults. What does this have to do with his ability to run the FIA? I'm obviously missing something and as i have not followed every last detail of this then that's a possibility

Sorry just i was speeding at the weekend and broke the law too.....hope i don't have to have an inqusition to see if i am fit to run my department at work


----------



## jasonm

I agree SIB, thats why he hasnt been sacked or voted out, he has done nothing illegal and he diddnt ask for it to come out in the papers...

If he had been sacked etc then he would of sued the arse of the FIA for doing so.....And he would have won....

Fair play to the old fella 

''Let him without sin cast the first stone''


----------



## pg tips

I think the furore has more to do with the alleged nazi and racist links. There is no way a world sport can be seen to have a racist as it's president. I'm not saying Max is a racist, I have no idea, but the meer implication is enough to question his position.


----------



## SIB

pg tips said:


> I think the furore has more to do with the alleged nazi and racist links. There is no way a world sport can be seen to have a racist as it's president. I'm not saying Max is a racist, I have no idea, but the meer implication is enough to question his position.


Thanks for the clarification. I know there was an uproar when Prince Harry went to a fancy dress party dressed as a Nazi but he wasn't aksed to leave the army and certainly not asked to give up his right to the throne!! Surely the (potential) future king of England and a soldier in Her Majesties Forces should be sacked and couldn't possibly be the ruler of a country using the same logic applied by people to the Max Mosely case?

An good friend of mine happens to "dress up" in the bedroom with his girl friend but she isn't Princess Leia and he isn't a Gladiator!! My point being, even if there were Nazi conitations to the orgy, it doesn't mean the people participating are Nazis.....


----------



## pg tips

exactly and I said I have no idea if he is.

The prince harry thing was obviously a mistake, he just picked a funny fancy dress outfit not realizing the consequences of his actions

If Max isn't a racist, and his nazi role playing was just a bit of childish fun then all will be fine in the FIA, but his actions have called others to question him, it's only fair that they are given the chance to have those questions answered to their satisfaction.


----------



## JoT

I hope I can service four hookers after being tied up at beaten when I am 68 :lol:


----------



## mrteatime

pg tips said:


> he just picked a funny fancy dress outfit not realizing the consequences of his actions


of course he didnt know....he obviously just picked up a costume from an old family member......

he knew exactly what he was doing


----------



## pg tips

I don't know mate, he's the son of centuries of in breeding the son of a dumb blonde and a lumbering idiot, I don't give him any creedence for intelligence, his family tree doesn't support it. Just look at his brother! :lol:


----------



## mrteatime

pg tips said:


> I don't know mate, he's the son of centuries of in breeding the son of a dumb blonde and a lumbering idiot, I don't give him any creedence for intelligence, his family tree doesn't support it. Just look at his brother! :lol:


i stand corrected paul :lol:


----------



## pg tips

pg tips said:


> Boring start to another boring season?
> 
> Discuss....


Funny where such an innocuous start to a thread can lead :lol: I'll be in the tower charged with treason before too long!


----------



## mrteatime

is it me...or does anyone else just find lewis just a bit...er...boring? he seems to say the right things, although with no personality....he seems very well schooled....but he just seems...well...so corporate


----------



## adrian

Considering his family history he should have stayed away from this kind of associations. What is most intriguing for me is that while millions were killed in Europe his parents had Hitler invited at their wedding and the offspring went to the best schools and ended as a public figure and billionaire. Like I said millions didn't had his chance.

Moreover, he was caught doing this once. How many times in the past did he do it and for how long? I have absolutely no sympathy or respect for this POS.


----------



## jasonm

mrteatime said:


> is it me...or does anyone else just find lewis just a bit...er...boring? he seems to say the right things, although with no personality....he seems very well schooled....but he just seems...well...so corporate


Of course hes corporate, hes been to the Ron Denis school of corporate since he was 5 years old.....I want to say 'groomed' but I wont.... h34r:

Hes the motorsport equivalent of Westlife........


----------



## pg tips

jasonm said:


> Hes the motorsport equivalent of Westlife........


:rofl: yes I agree, except Lewis is very good at what he does where as west life are a bunch of ...

He's no more corporate than most of the modern era drivers. They have lived and breathed modern racing for years. If you were on 5 million would you want to blow it by trying a bit of spontaneity?


----------



## jasonm

Yeah I know Paul...

No characters left....... :sadwalk:


----------



## JoT

The last of the F1 characters IMO


----------



## limey

That's classic, JoT (and classy too).

Hey, didn't see this mentioned in this thread, should be good for a little discourse. And Jase should like it, he can cut some pictures out and paste them on his Ferrari wall. Anyway, looks like Lewis may have "accidentally pressed the neutral button" in Brazil. Hmmm.


----------



## pg tips

good god, it used to be bad enough on normal cars where the wiper and indicator stalks were not standard. How many times I mirrored, windscreen wiped, maneuvered in my car after being in the work van all day!

just imagine all that guff on road cars with no standardisation of layout!


----------



## jasonm

limey said:


> That's classic, JoT (and classy too).
> 
> Hey, didn't see this mentioned in this thread, should be good for a little discourse. And Jase should like it, he can cut some pictures out and paste them on his Ferrari wall. Anyway, looks like Lewis may have "accidentally pressed the neutral button" in Brazil. Hmmm.


Great link  Thanks....

Sadly there is no room left on my Ferrari shrine, I mean wall....


----------



## Griff

JoT said:


> The last of the F1 characters IMO


Aye.......for decking another driver with an impressive right cross, winning the F1 on the last race in Japan in extreme weather conditions, and his early death from a heart attack no doubt brought on by heavy smoking and the strain of too much late night shagging!!! 

For me though, the last great character was Nigel Mansel.........wins the F1 and within the year goes to the US and wins the Indy Car 1st time out. Paul Newman described him as awesome.

All soft tarts since him IMO h34r:


----------



## Robert

> David Coulthard will bring his 14-year Formula One driving career to a close at the end of the season.
> 
> The 37-year-old Scot, who won 13 races, made his announcement on the eve of Sunday's British Grand at Silverstone, which will be his 237th Grand Prix.
> 
> Coulthard drove for Williams and McLaren and is now at Red Bull Racing, where he will continue as a consultant.


Mmmm. Who will I support now


----------



## JoT

Griff said:


> JoT said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last of the F1 characters IMO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aye.......for decking another driver with an impressive right cross, winning the F1 on the last race in Japan in extreme weather conditions, and his early death from a heart attack no doubt brought on by heavy smoking and the strain of too much late night shagging!!!
> 
> For me though, the last great character was Nigel Mansel.........wins the F1 and within the year goes to the US and wins the Indy Car 1st time out. Paul Newman described him as awesome.
> 
> All soft tarts since him IMO h34r:
Click to expand...

That picture always makes me smile, fag, beer, girl, car things were much simpler back then


----------



## b11ocx

Robert said:


> David Coulthard will bring his 14-year Formula One driving career to a close at the end of the season.
> 
> The 37-year-old Scot, who won 13 races, made his announcement on the eve of Sunday's British Grand at Silverstone, which will be his 237th Grand Prix.
> 
> Coulthard drove for Williams and McLaren and is now at Red Bull Racing, where he will continue as a consultant.
> 
> 
> 
> Mmmm. Who will I support now
Click to expand...

Whoever you support, it will be at Donnington from 2010.


----------



## Dadisskint

Have to admit I have only skimmed the first page and the last two pages of this post, Yes I like F1, I have done since I was

a kid, every weekend up to Cowdenbeath for the stock car racing, My uncle raced, we were into engineering so welding the

stocky back together was as much a part of the weeks events, Did a bit of track day events at knockhill with a Evo 8 RS 355 bhp

(no driver aids) I mentioned this with regards to something I read about driver decisions, being in the car and sitting in the armchair

watching, I have a few moves which now I can say 'what was I thinking' but in that split second the red mist comes down and you

either get lucky or are putting the car onto the trailer(hopefully under its own steam), Have also tried the motorbike thing, and have the

broken bones to prove it, I do not have big bikes any more, just a 77 bonnie and a 73 norton.

Oh how I wish my father liked football, It would have cost a lot less, I am still paying Â£ 1600 per year to the chiropractor( can't spell

what he really is).

Now I have inducted myself, bear in mind I have four years worth of catching up to do, I loved the racing of old the 6 wheel tyrrells

the Lotus of 78,79, but to me the best cars for racing would have to have been the late 60s with the Eagle(what a beautiful car), (video only not old enough)

I think it must have been the vunerability of the men sitting so exposed, also on cornering you could see the men willing the cars

round the corners, also trying continuous development big wings, six wheels, big turbos, raw excitment every time you watched a grand prix, something that I cannot say I ever get when switching on now, Probably ever since the day Ayrton Senna died, something was lost for me, Funny thing was at the time I did not recognise how good a driver he was, at a young age you tend to have favorites Senna at that

point was not high on my list, I was in the Prost corner at that time, never Mansell due to his dramatics falling out the car etc, remembering Senna walking past him and looking wondering, Though one of his best moves ever can't remember the venue, but Senna with Mansell behind came barreling round a right hander drop down Senna goes past the back marker and Bam Mansell goes past the two of them, what a move(thought Murray Walkerwas going to keel over), also Monaco 92 when his tyre blue six laps to go taking six seconds out of Senna in two laps, flahes of brillance, but never enough for me, saw him at Silverstone 2006 at the old timer race, poured down, one driver came onto the home straight spun a full 360

and kept on going like nothing happened, its then you realize how good these guys are, also sitting in the main stand the adoration when

Mansell appeared, Personally I don't think he was that good, the reason why shuey and Senna were better they were slightly unhinged,

never mind being a sportsman and all that, they did was was needed to get the title whatever the cost, I am not saying whats right or wrong, but if you want to be champion you have to be ruthless, more so in todays mega bucks high pressure industry, Last year Lewis let me down, when he got into the he said slagging match with Alonso, He would have won more kudos if he just let his driving do the talking,

because at the end of the day he is still a rookie, and its showing this season. As usual the media make a meal of it again, they have him so high on that pedestal there is only one way left for him to go. I was one who got on the Lewis train though his move on Kimi was spectacular then into the s bend the tail flicking out, how many other drivers stick an Fi cars tail out, sounds like our man, falling out with your team mate, the hunger and desire to win, possibly even unhinged this could be our man, possibly if he does not listen to the press and get caught up in himself.

The Mosley thing, like my father I was brought up on cars and bikes, and love them,, young Max was brought up on a certain fanatical leader of German origin, the fact he never made much ado about shuey's domminance and sometimes debatable driving tells you how much of an influence his childhood had over him, now when the first coloured man and potential champion shows signs of being a world champion its not good for the sport, Hmm so to the debate yes I beleive these people have a private life, but this side of him will clearly never go away and it showing through into his work, Jackie Stewart and Max hate each other (Jackies words read his book)I don't think however much he bangs on about it being a private matter etc one thing is for sure Lewis cannot anytime soon expect an invitation to one of Max's parties.

Also as a closer I think its time bernie and crew hand over the reigns, come on 100million dollar fine for what, if it had been one of the lesser known teams would the same treatment have been applied I think not. big post did not spell check please excuse

I am prepared to accept critism for above as I admit now not to be all knowing all of above are my personal feelings and appologise to anybody if they do not agree, but hey ho thats what makes the world a interesting place.

Love the pic of James Hunt smoking the fag with a can of beer, can you just picture lewis sitting on a wall with a dolly bird a fag and a can of beer, I wonder what part or their bodies the cigi and beer companies would need to sell to Bernie for that to happen.


----------



## in_denial

JoT said:


> Griff said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoT said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last of the F1 characters IMO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aye.......for decking another driver with an impressive right cross, winning the F1 on the last race in Japan in extreme weather conditions, and his early death from a heart attack no doubt brought on by heavy smoking and the strain of too much late night shagging!!!
> 
> For me though, the last great character was Nigel Mansel.........wins the F1 and within the year goes to the US and wins the Indy Car 1st time out. Paul Newman described him as awesome.
> 
> All soft tarts since him IMO h34r:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That picture always makes me smile, fag, beer, girl, car things were much simpler back then
Click to expand...

Nah, much as I liked Master James, for me the _last_ of the characters was Keke Rosberg; last moments of practice for the '85 British GP with pole already in the bag, he stubs out a ciggie on a tyre and says "Lets do it" - out on a damp track, with a slow puncture in his left rear tyre, 1500BHP under his right foot, and the world's first 160mph lap in F1... pure class.

-- Tim


----------



## Jonmurgie

So, F1 off to Donnington from 2010... should be interesting, it's a pretty narrow track!!


----------



## pg tips

I've been down to Silverstone today working,

Virtually everybody is wearing a Lewis hamilton baseball cap!


----------



## jasonm

Dadisskint said:


> Have to admit I have only skimmed the first page and the last two pages of this post, Yes I like F1, I have done since I was
> 
> a kid, every weekend up to Cowdenbeath for the stock car racing, My uncle raced, we were into engineering so welding the
> 
> stocky back together was as much a part of the weeks events, Did a bit of track day events at knockhill with a Evo 8 RS 355 bhp
> 
> (no driver aids) I mentioned this with regards to something I read about driver decisions, being in the car and sitting in the armchair
> 
> watching, I have a few moves which now I can say 'what was I thinking' but in that split second the red mist comes down and you
> 
> either get lucky or are putting the car onto the trailer(hopefully under its own steam), Have also tried the motorbike thing, and have the
> 
> broken bones to prove it, I do not have big bikes any more, just a 77 bonnie and a 73 norton.
> 
> Oh how I wish my father liked football, It would have cost a lot less, I am still paying Â£ 1600 per year to the chiropractor( can't spell
> 
> what he really is).
> 
> Now I have inducted myself, bear in mind I have four years worth of catching up to do, I loved the racing of old the 6 wheel tyrrells
> 
> the Lotus of 78,79, but to me the best cars for racing would have to have been the late 60s with the Eagle(what a beautiful car), (video only not old enough)
> 
> I think it must have been the vunerability of the men sitting so exposed, also on cornering you could see the men willing the cars
> 
> round the corners, also trying continuous development big wings, six wheels, big turbos, raw excitment every time you watched a grand prix, something that I cannot say I ever get when switching on now, Probably ever since the day Ayrton Senna died, something was lost for me, Funny thing was at the time I did not recognise how good a driver he was, at a young age you tend to have favorites Senna at that
> 
> point was not high on my list, I was in the Prost corner at that time, never Mansell due to his dramatics falling out the car etc, remembering Senna walking past him and looking wondering, *Though one of his best moves ever can't remember the venue, but Senna with Mansell behind came barreling round a right hander drop down Senna goes past the back marker and Bam Mansell goes past the two of them, what a move(thought Murray Walkerwas going to keel over),* also Monaco 92 when his tyre blue six laps to go taking six seconds out of Senna in two laps, flahes of brillance, but never enough for me, saw him at Silverstone 2006 at the old timer race, poured down, one driver came onto the home straight spun a full 360
> 
> and kept on going like nothing happened, its then you realize how good these guys are, also sitting in the main stand the adoration when
> 
> Mansell appeared, Personally I don't think he was that good, the reason why shuey and Senna were better they were slightly unhinged,
> 
> never mind being a sportsman and all that, they did was was needed to get the title whatever the cost, I am not saying whats right or wrong, but if you want to be champion you have to be ruthless, more so in todays mega bucks high pressure industry, Last year Lewis let me down, when he got into the he said slagging match with Alonso, He would have won more kudos if he just let his driving do the talking,
> 
> because at the end of the day he is still a rookie, and its showing this season. As usual the media make a meal of it again, they have him so high on that pedestal there is only one way left for him to go. I was one who got on the Lewis train though his move on Kimi was spectacular then into the s bend the tail flicking out, how many other drivers stick an Fi cars tail out, sounds like our man, falling out with your team mate, the hunger and desire to win, possibly even unhinged this could be our man, possibly if he does not listen to the press and get caught up in himself.
> 
> The Mosley thing, like my father I was brought up on cars and bikes, and love them,, young Max was brought up on a certain fanatical leader of German origin, the fact he never made much ado about shuey's domminance and sometimes debatable driving tells you how much of an influence his childhood had over him, now when the first coloured man and potential champion shows signs of being a world champion its not good for the sport, Hmm so to the debate yes I beleive these people have a private life, but this side of him will clearly never go away and it showing through into his work, Jackie Stewart and Max hate each other (Jackies words read his book)I don't think however much he bangs on about it being a private matter etc one thing is for sure Lewis cannot anytime soon expect an invitation to one of Max's parties.
> 
> Also as a closer I think its time bernie and crew hand over the reigns, come on 100million dollar fine for what, if it had been one of the lesser known teams would the same treatment have been applied I think not. big post did not spell check please excuse
> 
> I am prepared to accept critism for above as I admit now not to be all knowing all of above are my personal feelings and appologise to anybody if they do not agree, but hey ho thats what makes the world a interesting place.
> 
> Love the pic of James Hunt smoking the fag with a can of beer, can you just picture lewis sitting on a wall with a dolly bird a fag and a can of beer, I wonder what part or their bodies the cigi and beer companies would need to sell to Bernie for that to happen.


Hungary 1989 was that move, I liked Mansell as a driver very much, he had to really work hard at winning though, not a natural fast driver but very very brave and determined...


----------



## Griff

I had a Cooper model racing car as a kid, and I used to race it against other kids down the avenue and across tarred over avenue cracks, where I lived.

The Ferrari kid, with his model, won a lot, then one day my green Cooper beat him, and he threw a wobbler.

Not much changed....it seems to me!!!  :lol:

I hate Ferrari and all it stands for........absolutely hate the ............sorry Jase......you are top drawer mate


----------



## squareleg

> Hungary 1989 was that move, I liked Mansell as a driver very much, he had to really work hard at winning though, not a natural fast driver but very very brave and determined...


Best ever race (and I'm no petrolhead) was Mansell and Senna at Monaco, sometime late 80s / early 90s? Just hair-raising, dirty, gritty, brave, reckless, all-out, no-holds-barred, scary, seat-of-yer-pants, crazy, proper damn racing. Not your nancyboy-wrapped-in-cotton-wool _time-trials_ that pass as F1 nowadays. Those were proper men, playing a dangerous, winner-takes-all game for very high stakes.

God, I remember the day Senna died like it was yesterday. The world is a poorer place without him. We all are. But I bet Mansell misses him most of all. R.I.P., Ayrton - you were a true hero.


----------



## jasonm

squareleg said:


> Hungary 1989 was that move, I liked Mansell as a driver very much, he had to really work hard at winning though, not a natural fast driver but very very brave and determined...
> 
> 
> 
> Best ever race (and I'm no petrolhead) was Mansell and Senna at Monaco, sometime late 80s / early 90s? Just hair-raising, dirty, gritty, brave, reckless, all-out, no-holds-barred, scary, seat-of-yer-pants, crazy, proper damn racing. Not your nancyboy-wrapped-in-cotton-wool _time-trials_ that pass as F1 nowadays. Those were proper men, playing a dangerous, winner-takes-all game for very high stakes.
> 
> God, I remember the day Senna died like it was yesterday. The world is a poorer place without him. We all are. But I bet Mansell misses him most of all. R.I.P., Ayrton - you were a true hero.
Click to expand...

Monaco 92 I think  about 8 laps to go Mansell loads behind Senna because of a tyre change, Mansell makes up 3 secs a lap to get behind him 5 laps to go, but cant get past anywhere, they touch loads of times and later Senna said he did brake test him on occasion.... Classic stuff..

Thats ok Griff, its good were all different...


----------



## jasonm

Found it...


----------



## JoT

Griff what do Ferrari stand for :huh: a long history of engineering excellence? A winning mentality? The oldest team left in F1? Drivers such as Fangio, Surtees, Ickx, Lauda etc. Don't seem to be reasons to HATE them for all they stand for.


----------



## Griff

Bit strong I know but last years fine on McLaren was in my view a case of the FIA being grossly unfair and biased.


----------



## JoT

Good effort by Hamilton, a full minute ahead of second place :yes:


----------



## squareleg

jasonm said:


> Found it...


Thanks for that, Jason. Made my day seeing it again!


----------



## pg tips

:notworthy: *GO LEWIS!*


----------



## JoT

It was a very good performance, the way he passed Massa was particularly impressive :yes:


----------



## PhilM

Not to sure what happend to Ferrari this weekend, didn't seem to perform too well at all :blink:

BTW Good to see Piquet Jr also finishing in 2nd :clap:


----------



## jasonm

Go Kimi!


----------



## BondandBigM

jasonm said:


> Go Kimi!


He's going for it  so long as his engine holds up


----------



## BondandBigM

Hey blew it again


----------



## Alas

Last 2 laps only exciting bit of the race. Looked like dodgems out there :lol:


----------



## jasonm

Piss


----------



## strange_too

Interesting, I know I enjoyed it 

but now the Stewards are investigating the bus stop incident........ :huh:


----------



## jasonm

:huh:

No way!

That was just rain induced carnage....

everyone was affected....


----------



## PhilM

I can't believe Raikkonen put it into the wall


----------



## BondandBigM

His season is effectively over, he'll be second fiddle to Masa for the rest of the season now


----------



## Steve R

Well well well, look at that... Hamilton stripped of the win, now placed third with Massa the winner. Controversial stuff!

This time last year I would have been outraged, but this year Hamilton's attitude has turned me right off so I don't much care how he does, and I'm sure he did not completely give back the ill-gained advantage today because he used the extra momentum to re-take Kimi sooooo... the penalty may even be justified, and anyway I'm pleased for Massa - he seems like a nice bloke! 

The rest of the season just got closer... except for Kimi who now must be appointed tail gunner for the duration.

S.


----------



## PhilM

Well I never  I'm sure Ron's not to pleased about that one :tongue2:


----------



## TimD

So at the chicane Hamilton is ahead of Raikonen, Raikonen hits him and pushes him of the track, hamilton rejoins and even though he was ahead going into the corner lets Raikonen back infront. He then outbrakes Raikonen with better car control and goes on to win the race whilst the World champion stuffs it into the wall. He's then penalised because he supposedly got an advantage on a guy that didn't even finish the race.

This stinks, what is it that the FIA don't like about Lewis Hamilton, the colour of his skin or the colour of his car?

Cheers,

Tim.


----------



## strange_too

strikes again. McLaren are appealing.

Even Charlie Whitting said it was OK, as they had let his pass back. Used to be if Charlie said it was OK, it was OK.


----------



## Robert

He definitely got an advantage and should be penalised. I guess inexperience made it hard for him to slow down enough to avoid the penalty. I don't understand the 25 second penalty though. Does it equate to a drive through?


----------



## strange_too

Robert said:


> He definitely got an advantage and should be penalised. I guess inexperience made it hard for him to slow down enough to avoid the penalty. I don't understand the 25 second penalty though. Does it equate to a drive through?


Lewis was in front at the chicane got pushed wide, so to avoid the accident he went into the run off area. He was therefore ahead after the chicane. Let Kimi back passed, then re overtook him at the next corner. Ron went to see Charlie (the race director) and he said it all OK.

25 seconds is the standard penalty after a race has finished, if they would normally have given a drive through.


----------



## Robert

strange_too said:


> Lewis was in front at the chicane


I just saw it again on the news and it didn't look like he was in front


----------



## Steve R

Robert said:


> He definitely got an advantage and should be penalised. I guess inexperience made it hard for him to slow down enough to avoid the penalty. I don't understand the 25 second penalty though. Does it equate to a drive through?


Yup - on the basis that that would have been the penalty applied had the incident happened earlier in the race and so with time remaining for an actual drive through to be performed.

Fully understand those who think it fishy, it probably is, but don't really understand why anyone would care these days! F1 has become such a bizarrely twisted farce in the last few seasons there's no point getting upset about it, I just support whoever I happen to think is a decent chap on the day. Keeps it simple! 

S.


----------



## jasonm

Good old Bernie :clap:


----------



## JoT

I saw Schumacher being interviewed yesterday about some drink drive campaign; the interviewer asked him if he thought Hamilton could win the title, he answered "No" and smiled :lol: now why would he do that I wonder?


----------



## jasonm

Good old Schuie


----------



## Andy Tims

Hamilton wasn't ahead at the bus stop, he gained an advantage momentarily & let Kimi back through - advantage cancelled out.

Feckin fix


----------



## jasonm

Andy Tims said:


> Hamilton wasn't ahead at the bus stop, he gained an advantage momentarily & let Kimi back through - advantage cancelled out.
> 
> Feckin fix


I dont think so, I think what will be argued is that by cutting the chicane, Lewis then got more of a run on Kimi into the corner that he got in front of him on......

I think Lewis had a better track position to take him on that next corner than if he had been following behind Kimi had he not cut the corner...


----------



## Andy Tims

Jason

Whether Lewis gained the advantage into La Source after letting Kimi back through is questionable. In my view he got to the hairpin first because Kimi was pissing around trying to cover the line by swerving left & right & compromised his own entry. That was rendered irrelevant anyway when Kimi put it in the wall, whilst leading.

The 25 second penalty has IMHO been imposed because:-

1) It keeps the championship alive for longer, thereby swelling Bernieâ€™s coffers

2) He wasn't driving a red car. C'mon can there really be anyone who doesn't sniff at least a hint of Ferrari bias?


----------



## jasonm

Andy, as much as I am a Ferrari fan, I agree with you, Lewis won that race because he kept it on the road better at the end, I guess Im just saying why there was a penalty awarded... I do doubt that had it been a tussle with 2 cars battling for 10th and 11th anything would have happened.....

I think Lewis will will the championship this year still and this will just string it out a bit longer...


----------



## BondandBigM

strange_too said:


> Robert said:
> 
> 
> 
> He definitely got an advantage and should be penalised. I guess inexperience made it hard for him to slow down enough to avoid the penalty. I don't understand the 25 second penalty though. Does it equate to a drive through?
> 
> 
> 
> Lewis was in front at the chicane got pushed wide, so to avoid the accident he went into the run off area. He was therefore ahead after the chicane. Let Kimi back passed, then re overtook him at the next corner. Ron went to see Charlie (the race director) and he said it all OK.
> 
> 25 seconds is the standard penalty after a race has finished, if they would normally have given a drive through.
Click to expand...

Kimi had the racing line and Hamilton took a chance with no room and paid the price.

Being coloured had nothing to do with the decision but maybe that his team is almost completely funded by the Germans might have :lol:


----------



## PhilM

What ever the reason for the penalty, it make it a lot more interesting over the next few races


----------



## rousey

This penalty has put a massive black cloud over F1 and i'm sure Ferrari complained to the FIA straight after the incident.

I personally am very disappointed with the way McLaren have been treated by the FIA recently and Ferrari seem to always get away with things.

Are Ferrari becoming the Manchester United of the F1 world ???????


----------



## Andy Tims

An old one I know but:-

FIA = Ferrari International Assistance


----------



## PhilM

rousey said:


> Are Ferrari becoming the Manchester United of the F1 world ???????


Interesting one, as over the last 5 years yes Ferrari have been the dominant team due to both driver and the performance of the car simply out classing the competition. Then last season finally McLaren started to challenge this, only to find out that they had obtained confidential information of the technical makeup of the 2007 car, this was then dealt with accordingly by the FIA.

Finally yesterdays incident, again this was clearly raised by the stewards that they felt Hamilton had gained an advantage over Raikkonen by carrying out that manoeuvre on the last corner, I'm sure if it was any other teams involved this would still be the case.


----------



## JoT

PhilM said:


> I'm sure if it was any other teams involved this would still be the case.


Except Ferrari, if it had been Massa and not Hamilton nothing would have happened IMO


----------



## jasonm

Im not so sure about that John...

And Im certain Dennis would have been the first to lodge a complaint had it been the other way around.....


----------



## thunderbolt

> Triple world champion Niki Lauda has described the stewards' decision as "the worst judgement in F1 history".
> 
> "It is the most perverted judgment I have ever seen," said the Austrian, who won the title for both Ferrari and McLaren.
> 
> "It's absolutely unacceptable when three functionaries (the stewards) influence the championship like this."


From the BBC. Full article here.


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> Im not so sure about that John...
> 
> And Im certain Dennis would have been the first to lodge a complaint had it been the other way around.....


I am sure he would Jase but would the stewards have ruled against Ferrari? I don't think so.


----------



## djgg

Have the FIA ever ruled against ferrari ? h34r:

I dont think so .

David


----------



## pg tips

I was working yesterday but heard the end of race commentary on 5 barely alive and then watch the highlights last night.

I am fuming!!! It's another blatant example of the pro Ferrari bias that is embedded within the FIA.. Do you really think if Schumacher had made that manoeuvre anything would have been done?

It was a perfect example of how RACING should be. HTF can you say Lewis gained an advantage when anyone could see Kimi was totally outclassed, hadn't got a clue how to drive in those conditions and it was obvious that Lewis could pass him at any corner on the circuit!

The FIA have succeeded yet again in ruining any morsel of integrity they had.

And before anyone asks I'd be just as angry if Massa had done it to Hamilton and then Massa had been penalised (not that that would ever happen whilst he drives for the donkeys).

It's totally scandalous. Penalising brilliant racing, brilliant driving and fantastic spectacle is diabolical!


----------



## Steve R

pg tips said:


> I was working yesterday but heard the end of race commentary on 5 barely alive and then watch the highlights last night.
> 
> I am fuming!!! It's another blatant example of the pro Ferrari bias that is embedded within the FIA.. Do you really think if Schumacher had made that manoeuvre anything would have been done?
> 
> It was a perfect example of how RACING should be. HTF can you say Lewis gained an advantage when anyone could see Kimi was totally outclassed, hadn't got a clue how to drive in those conditions and it was obvious that Lewis could pass him at any corner on the circuit!
> 
> The FIA have succeeded yet again in ruining any morsel of integrity they had.
> 
> And before anyone asks I'd be just as angry if Massa had done it to Hamilton and then Massa had been penalised (not that that would ever happen whilst he drives for the donkeys).
> 
> It's totally scandalous. Penalising brilliant racing, brilliant driving and fantastic spectacle is diabolical!


Yeah okay Paul but come on, enough beating about the bush - come down off that fence and tell us what you _really_ think. 

S.


----------



## jasonm

> It was a perfect example of how RACING should be. HTF can you say Lewis gained an advantage when anyone could see Kimi was totally outclassed, hadn't got a clue how to drive in those conditions and it was obvious that Lewis could pass him at any corner on the circuit!


Your right, but it wasnt about that, it was about one specific incident on one corner..

The fact that Rons first reaction was to check with Charlie that the incident was legal shows that there was a doubt about it...

Your right, Lewis was going to be able to pass him on any corner of the circuit, he should have waited until the one after. 

I maintain that Lewis's advantage he gained by shortcutting the chicane was by having his car in a much better position on track to take Kimi on that next corner, watch the video again and you can see that, had Lewis been following Kimi then he might not have been where he was, that I think is the basis of the penalty.


----------



## strange_too

McLaren have confirmed they have logged the appeal. Interesting to read that Charlie (Race Control) twice said that Lewis was OK for incident that he was penalised for.

The article is here


----------



## rhaythorne

pg tips said:



> I am fuming!!! It's another blatant example of the pro Ferrari bias that is embedded within the FIA.. Do you really think if Schumacher had made that manoeuvre anything would have been done?


You mean like when he was effectively disqualified (or at least placed last in the championship) in 1997?

I'm sure there are numerous other examples of Ferrari and/or its drivers being penalised for all manner of indiscretions over the years. Of course, many of you appear to have tactfully "forgotten" about them 

However, just for the record, I'm hoping that McLaren win their appeal as I think the stewards' decision at Spa was wrong.

I'm also hoping that Ferrari thrash McLaren at Monza


----------



## jasonm

rhaythorne said:


> pg tips said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am fuming!!! It's another blatant example of the pro Ferrari bias that is embedded within the FIA.. Do you really think if Schumacher had made that manoeuvre anything would have been done?
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like when he was effectively disqualified (or at least placed last in the championship) in 1997?
> 
> I'm sure there are numerous other examples of Ferrari and/or its drivers being penalised for all manner of indiscretions over the years. Of course, many of you appear to have tactfully "forgotten" about them
> 
> *However, just for the record, I'm hoping that McLaren win their appeal as I think the stewards' decision at Spa was wrong.*
> 
> I'm also hoping that Ferrari thrash McLaren at Monza
Click to expand...

Yep, I agree Rich..

( There was a illegal bargeboard punishment too a few years ago )


----------



## pg tips

the 710 calls it selective memory loss! :lol:

But tbh it does seem over the last few years ferrari are having the run of the decisions going their way.

What has been striking this time is the amount of criticism of the stewards. Even Damon sit on the fence Hill has had a go at them!

We've all said it in the past, there are far too many rules and far too many occasions where teams try to use those rules to their advantage. If F1 needs to do anything it needs to get back to the ethics of racing and not technicalities.

Someone on the radio today said he'd heard Andy Murray had signed a sponsorship deal with Ferrari and as such he has been declared the winner of the American open, and Wimbledon and the Olympics for good measure


----------



## Andy Tims

djgg said:


> Have the FIA ever ruled against ferrari ? h34r:
> 
> I dont think so .
> 
> David


We all know FIA = Ferrari International Assistance, but here are the membership details

Got a Ferrari?

Not quite good enough at driving?

Are other boys faster than you in the wet?

Then you need:

Ferrari International Assistance

This exclusive Ferrari only membership club has many benefits.

Including:

â€¢ Anti overtaking assurance - Been overtaken? Feel a bit silly?

Don't worry, we'll rule out the other party â€" even if it's

embarrassingly obvious that they're faster than you

â€¢ Exclusive access to a secret `second lane' in the pits o Just to

make things a little bit easier we've arranged a private second

lane â€" just for you

â€¢ Guaranteed world championship? - Had a crash? Need to win the

world championship? Don't worry just limp across the track and take

off your nearest championship title contender - we'll do the rest

â€¢ A bit strapped? Need extra cash? - Simply get one of your team to

tell someone else how you make your cars. We'll guarantee a

$100,000,000 windfall so that the rich get richer!

â€¢ Bits falling off your car? Looking a bit dangerous? - At Ferrari

International Assistance we operate a `blind eye' policy just for

Ferrari drivers

â€¢ Been a bit silly? Taken off another driver whilst following the

safety car? - It's ok, as long as you didn't hurt yourself. I mean,

who are Force India anyway? And how dare they be in from of you

â€¢ A bit bored? Want some extra action? - With FIA plus you can take

part in a number of additional membership activities including the

popular `kill your pit crew' game

â€¢ Not sure when you might need us next? - Relax. Check out our track

record. We're confident that we'll be able to make something up on

the spot that will get you out of any pickle that you might find

yourself in

Bonus offer!

* Order our FIA plus pack and receive exclusive access to our Nazi

style orgies *

Ferrari International Assistance - Making it up as we go along for

over 100 years


----------



## thunderbolt

Andy Tims said:


> djgg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have the FIA ever ruled against ferrari ? h34r:
> 
> I dont think so .
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> We all know FIA = Ferrari International Assistance, but here are the membership details
> 
> Got a Ferrari?
> 
> Not quite good enough at driving?
> 
> Are other boys faster than you in the wet?
> 
> Then you need:
> 
> Ferrari International Assistance
> 
> This exclusive Ferrari only membership club has many benefits.
> 
> Including:
> 
> â€¢ Anti overtaking assurance - Been overtaken? Feel a bit silly?
> 
> Don't worry, we'll rule out the other party â€" even if it's
> 
> embarrassingly obvious that they're faster than you
> 
> â€¢ Exclusive access to a secret `second lane' in the pits o Just to
> 
> make things a little bit easier we've arranged a private second
> 
> lane â€" just for you
> 
> â€¢ Guaranteed world championship? - Had a crash? Need to win the
> 
> world championship? Don't worry just limp across the track and take
> 
> off your nearest championship title contender - we'll do the rest
> 
> â€¢ A bit strapped? Need extra cash? - Simply get one of your team to
> 
> tell someone else how you make your cars. We'll guarantee a
> 
> $100,000,000 windfall so that the rich get richer!
> 
> â€¢ Bits falling off your car? Looking a bit dangerous? - At Ferrari
> 
> International Assistance we operate a `blind eye' policy just for
> 
> Ferrari drivers
> 
> â€¢ Been a bit silly? Taken off another driver whilst following the
> 
> safety car? - It's ok, as long as you didn't hurt yourself. I mean,
> 
> who are Force India anyway? And how dare they be in from of you
> 
> â€¢ A bit bored? Want some extra action? - With FIA plus you can take
> 
> part in a number of additional membership activities including the
> 
> popular `kill your pit crew' game
> 
> â€¢ Not sure when you might need us next? - Relax. Check out our track
> 
> record. We're confident that we'll be able to make something up on
> 
> the spot that will get you out of any pickle that you might find
> 
> yourself in
> 
> Bonus offer!
> 
> * Order our FIA plus pack and receive exclusive access to our Nazi
> 
> style orgies *
> 
> Ferrari International Assistance - Making it up as we go along for
> 
> over 100 years
Click to expand...

 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## strange_too

Have a listen to this, it's Pat Symonds of Renualt talking about the Spa.

Very interesting :yes:


----------



## jasonm

Cheers Howard,that was interesting indeed....


----------



## jasonm

Also interesting is that someof the other drivers think Lewis got an advantage by cutting the corner too..



> While McLaren data proved that Hamilton slowed to allow Ferrari rival Kimi Raikkonen to re-pass him on rejoining the track, it is believed the stewards felt his track cutting still gained him an advantage as he almost immediately overtook the Finn again.
> 
> *Nico Rosberg agrees that Hamilton would not have been right on the gearbox of the Ferrari had he gone around the Bus Stop as normal* â€" although he too feels the penalty was out of proportion with how the raceâ€™s final two laps played out.
> 
> â€œI definitely agree [with my colleagues], because he did get an advantage, *because he wouldn't have been that close behind Kimi had he not cut the chicane*,â€ the Williams driver said.
> 
> â€œBut then again, I also think the penalty was a bit harsh as that did not have such a big effect on the actual race result in the end.â€
> 
> Toyotaâ€™s Jarno Trulli added: â€œThe penalty was quite big but I'm not a steward and I cannot decide what kind of penalty should be given.
> 
> â€œ*But on the other hand, it was very clear that he got an advantage out of it, so that's where it is. The rules are very clear.*
> 
> â€œIf you cut the chicane and you get an advantage, you just have to drop back and give back the position and in Lewis's case he shouldn't have attacked straight away at the next corner; that was it.â€
> 
> Felipe Massa, the man who benefited most from Hamiltonâ€™s demotion as he inherited the race victory, claimed earlier in the week that his title rival had been â€œtoo optimisticâ€ and said he had not changed his view on Thursday.
> 
> â€œTo be honest, I've given my ideas on this many times about what happened," Massa said.
> 
> â€œWhat's happened is that he took an advantage by cutting the chicane.
> 
> â€œYou can ask other drivers how many overtaking manoeuvres you see there: no overtaking.
> 
> â€œGoing from the last corner to the first corner is such a small straight, so he took an advantage, that's clear, that's my opinion, so it doesn't change.â€


----------



## strange_too

jasonm said:


> Cheers Howard,that was interesting indeed....


Not a problem, I'm not a Renault Fan, but Pat is always pretty open about what's happening. If you use iTunes you can subscribe to it.


----------



## adrian

Nice one, Andy. :lol: :lol:


----------



## jasonm

strange_too said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers Howard,that was interesting indeed....
> 
> 
> 
> Not a problem, I'm not a Renault Fan, but Pat is always pretty open about what's happening. If you use iTunes you can subscribe to it.
Click to expand...

Nor me, but like you say, Pat is one of the 'old school' and tells it as it is, hes not a politician like say Ron is, I have a great deal of respect for Pat....


----------



## BondandBigM

Watching the qualifying and it's interesting that hardly a single driver agrees with Hamilton.

Hopefully they will be popping a few of these later tomorrow afternoon :tongue2:


----------



## Griff

Nicky Lauda said the decision against Hamilton was the most stupid decision ever made!!!! :huh: 

And I agree. The bias against McLaren is unbelievable!!!!


----------



## PhilM

Interesting as all of the other drivers didn't see it that way :huh:


----------



## jasonm

I think most people see that Lewis gained an advantage, but the debate is that the penalty imposed was too harsh.....

But I would say that that penalty is the standard one for the offence...


----------



## Robert

Last week he was hoping for rain and now 15th on the grid in the rain. No doubt that was also the FIA and Ferrari's fault


----------



## jasonm

Of course Robert.....

A quick phone call to the Vatican, little Papal prayer....Job done.....


----------



## Robert

Sod F1- GP2 is much better

Charlie Webster


----------



## strange_too

Congrats Seb Vettel that was a great race.

Really enjoyed it and a great job by Lewis considering where he started from.


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> Of course Robert.....
> 
> A quick phone call to the Vatican, little Papal prayer....Job done.....


A quick phone-call to the stewards to make sure that Hamilton's car is caleld in for a "random" check denying him time to do a qualifying lap on wets .... job done


----------



## Steve R

Brilliant drive there by Sebastian, both in qualifying and the race - superb! :thumbsup:

Can't remember the last time I was so nervous for the few laps, or so happy to see a guy and a team win - he's such a good natured, modest and polite young man and has a great attitude both to racing and to his fellow human beings... a very refreshing change! 

Also a fine demonstration of what can be achieved without the absurd budgets of the big teams - top work Toro Rosso!

S.

PS. Just watching the post-race ITV bunk and clearly his dad has no desire to give endless interviews when things are going well either - another bonus point...


----------



## pg tips

Yeah well done to the Vett but circumstances made the win imho, still a brilliant result though.

As for thr "race"

WTF have they done, every bloody time anyone went near a chicane questions were being asked. It seems in free flight you can cut the corners as much as you like but not when someone is on your arse, otherwise you have to pull over and let them back in!

What a farce. Have the FIA forgot this is motor *RACING* !!! :taz: Not motor " drive in a procession, mamby pamby around the corners and hope someone comes off so you can move up a place" !!!

Build a brick wall around the circuit so you can't cut the corners or leave the drivers to race each other! *****!!!


----------



## JoT

They should go back to using straw bales on chicanes, that will sort them out :lol:


----------



## jasonm

pg tips said:


> Yeah well done to the Vett but circumstances made the win imho, still a brilliant result though.
> 
> As for thr "race"
> 
> WTF have they done, every bloody time anyone went near a chicane questions were being asked. It seems in free flight you can cut the corners as much as you like but not when someone is on your arse, otherwise you have to pull over and let them back in!
> 
> What a farce. Have the FIA forgot this is motor *RACING* !!! :taz: Not motor " drive in a procession, mamby pamby around the corners and hope someone comes off so you can move up a place" !!!
> 
> Build a brick wall around the circuit so you can't cut the corners or leave the drivers to race each other! TWATS!!!


Yep, I agree Paul, all the blue flag stuff, only block once while defending and suchlike is bollox.....Let the buggers race......


----------



## Griff

Griff said:


> Nicky Lauda said the decision against Hamilton was the most stupid decision ever made!!!! :huh:
> 
> And I agree. The bias against McLaren is unbelievable!!!!


And now Stirling Moss too:-

Hamilton should get the 25 sec decision reversed


----------



## Griff

Jackie Stewart has commented also about this and particularly about the inconsistent decisions made by part time non professional stewards

Check the verbal statement on this link below and listen to his comments. I think he is dead on with his observations:-

Jackie Stewart comments


----------



## BondandBigM

Griff said:


> Jackie Stewart has commented also about this and particularly about the inconsistent decisions made by part time non professional stewards
> 
> Check the verbal statement on this link below and listen to his comments. I think he is dead on with his observations:-
> 
> Jackie Stewart comments


A superb driver in his day and my mate as he is a Jock

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

But when you listen to him he isn't half a whinging old women these days


----------



## Griff

He's a bloody good clay pigeon shooter too.

All jocks are whingers 'aint they!! h34r:


----------



## BondandBigM

Griff said:


> He's a bloody good clay pigeon shooter too.
> 
> All jocks are whingers 'aint they!! h34r:


It's how we are brought up


----------



## pinkwindmill

BBC - Hamilton Verdict

Cheers,

Guy


----------



## PhilM

Good news, I think if they backed down it would be all hell to play for


----------



## jasonm




----------



## JoT

What a surprise :lol:


----------



## BondandBigM

Foregone conclusion


----------



## pg tips

, 

(The FIA court of appeal, not you lot, I don't want to get myself banned h34r: )


----------



## Griff

I dont think these part time amateur stewards of complete and utter inconsistency will be happy until they ban Hamilton!!!!

"" is a flattering bit of terminology for 'em!!!


----------



## jasonm

Well, Hamilton and McLaren diddnt actually lose the appeal..

The appeal was deemed to be inadmissible as



> Under F1 rules, drivethrough penalties cannot be appealed


So there you go...... :tongue2:


----------



## Robert

So it was a forgone conclusion then. How come no-one realised that before and pulled the plug on the appeal.


----------



## jasonm

> Under F1 rules, drivethrough penalties cannot be appealed, so McLaren's lawyers had attempted to argue that it should be regarded differently because Hamilton never took to the pit lane and the actual penalty applied was a time addition.
> 
> But after a day of deliberation, the FIA has announced that there were no grounds to appeal the decision and that the penalty stands.
> 
> "Having heard the explanations of the parties the Court has concluded that the appeal is inadmissible," said an FIA statement released this afternoon.


----------



## PhilM

I wonder how much that cost them in wasted cash 

Edit: I suppose they got a day drip to Paris


----------



## BondandBigM

PhilM said:


> I wonder how much that cost them in wasted cash
> 
> Edit: I suppose they got a day drip to Paris





> *Lost appeal cost McLaren up to $1m*
> 
> The court bill accrued by the lawyers from Ferrari and the FIA will cost McLaren at least $500,000, but as much as double that amount, according to reports.


Now if they had read the rule book


----------



## BondandBigM

Readily available to any one, I'ts also interesting to note that the stewards have FIA Super Licences

*2008 FORMULA ONE SPORTING REGULATIONS*

16.3 The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident :

A - A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping ;

B - A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds

and then re-join the race.

C - a drop of ten grid positions at the driverâ€™s next Event.

*However, should either of the penalties under A and B above be imposed during the last five laps, or after*

the end of a race, Article 16.4b below will not apply and 25 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time

of the driver concerned.

16.4 B - From the time the stewardsâ€™ decision is notified on the timing monitors the relevant driver may cover

no more than three complete laps before entering the pit lane and, in the case of a penalty under

Article 16.3b, proceeding to his garage where he shall remain for the period of the time penalty.


----------



## Griff

The problem is the inconsistency of part time non professional stewards' judgements.

The decision against Hamilton was stupid and should never have been made


----------



## BondandBigM

Griff said:


> The problem is the inconsistency of part time non professional stewards' judgements.
> 
> The decision against Hamilton was stupid and should never have been made


People say the penalty was harsh but it is very clear in the rules what the penalty should be. The decision of the stewards is as you say all together another matter. Imho Hamilton clearly gained an advantage which he never properly gave back to the Ferrari and as such it was in most peoples eyes , except Mclaren and a couple of old whingers, a fair call.

Cream always comes to the top and in the end Ferrari are probably more interesed in the Constuctors Championship and the drivers championship is just the icing on the cake.

I think there is a lot of










From Mclaren


----------



## Griff

I think the stewards dont want the McLaren grapes to ripen in the 1st place!!!


----------



## BondandBigM

Griff said:


> I think the stewards dont want the McLaren grapes to ripen in the 1st place!!!


Can't understand what the problem is, why everyone is boo hoo'ing for Mclaren, they are almost completely funded by the Germans, a wax work dummy has more personality than Hamilton, he's good but still has a lot to learn and on the face of things Ron Dennis doesn't seem to be the most likable person on the planet.


----------



## Griff

Now come on........lets be sensible here!!!..........I'm supporting McLaren and Hamilton because it gets on Jasons nerves!!!   :lol:



> The McLaren F1 was formerly the fastest street legal production car in the world, holding this record from 1994 to 2005, the longest period the record has been held by any street legal or production car in the history of automobiles.* It was engineered and produced by McLaren Automotive, a subsidiary of the British McLaren Group that, among others, owns the McLaren Mercedes Formula One team. Today, it is still the fastest naturally aspirated car in the world.*


Seriously, I dont like red racing cars that begin with the letter F and they have drivers with funny names.

They are a shower of big heads and that German git really got on me nerves!!!! h34r:


----------



## BondandBigM

Griff said:


> *The McLaren F1 was formerly the fastest street legal production car in the world, holding this record from 1994 to 2005, the longest period the record has been held by any street legal or production car in the history of automobiles.*


With a German Engine and German funding

:lol: :lol:


----------



## Griff

I dont give a ****. My C1 has a Toyota engine but its still a Citroen :tongue2:


----------



## jasonm

> .I'm supporting McLaren and Hamilton because it gets on Jasons nerves!!!


Good for you Griff 

The Mc F1 is a awsome awsome car and I love it, but the F40 is more special..... :tongue2:

I loved McLaren in the Senna days, but from the mid-90s onwards they sold out to Mercedes and became a souless business, every other team followed suit, I believe this is when F1 changed to become what it is today, no longer a sport.....

Hamilton isnt a true grit racing driver, he was 'created' by his McLaren parent..


----------



## Griff




----------



## jasonm

One last comment on this...

It doesnt look like the drivers agree with you Griff....

Mark Webber..



> "Lewis would probably never ever have had a crack at Kimi around the outside at the first part of the Bus Stop without knowing he had the option of going onto the asphalt part.
> 
> "I think we've got to get on top of the chicanes going forward, and we're not too far away from that at the moment, where drivers know that if you gain a position or gain an advantage, you have to give it back a bit more."
> 
> Although Hamilton fully ceded the position to Raikkonen before out-braking him into La Source, the stewards felt that he was still in an advantageous position as a result of cutting the corner - a judgement Webber agreed with.
> 
> "It's absolutely clear that Lewis jumped the previous chicane and he had very good momentum into the next corner," said the Red Bull star.
> 
> "The rules are obviously that you have to let the other car past, but the grey area unfortunately is that he attacked Kimi again immediately, which was very difficult for Kimi to defend because he went around the whole track at the previous corner."
> 
> While admitting that he was speaking with the benefit of hindsight, Webber doubts he would have done the same in Hamilton's position.
> 
> "I think most guys would've thought it was a little bit cheeky to attack again in that way," he said.
> 
> "I would've done it differently, personally.
> 
> "Lewis was in such a fantastic position in that race, in terms of his pace, that he probably could've picked Kimi off somewhere else.


----------



## PhilM

Only 4 more races left, then we'll see who's crowned champion


----------



## Griff

The drivers that are still racing aren't exactly going to rock the boat with the stewards are they, but the ones that are no longer racing have said very different like Jackie Stewart, Stirling Moss, and Nicky Lauda.

I really do think the decision made against Hamilton was bloody stupid


----------



## BondandBigM

Griff said:


> I dont give a ****.


Straight to the point as usual

 :lol: :lol:


----------



## pg tips

jasonm said:


> Hamilton isnt a true grit racing driver, he was 'created' by his McLaren parent..


Jase, you've said some stupid things in the past but that takes the biscuit 



jasonm said:


> Mark Webber..
> 
> the Red Bull star.


Say it all really :lol:

The penalty as laid down by the rules was correct, McL were stupid to appeal.

The whole sorry episode is based on a stupid bunch of wannabes in the stewards hut not knowing a thing about *racing*

The sport has been ruined, very much like what is happening to football. The elite does not echo the grass roots any more and that is just plain wrong.


----------



## jasonm

:lol:

I stand by what I said...

Probably a test tube somewhere with his name on it 



> The whole sorry episode is based on a stupid bunch of wannabes in the stewards hut not knowing a thing about racing


Crap....

Do you really think the FIA would let them have this much clout if they were incompetent and not know a thing?

Im sure they know a lot more about racing than we ever will, but its not about racing is it? Its about the F1 rules and regs....And they arnt about racing unfortunately.....

They have to have all these poxy rules because they have fucked the cars up so much they cant race properly.....

Blue flags , no blocking etc ...Its bollocks


----------



## jasonm

Go Massa!

Looks like its gonna be a great race......


----------



## BondandBigM

As his radio said an absolutely stunning lap from Massa

Ferrari on Pole again

:tongue2:


----------



## JoT

Singapore GP ... a crappy street circuit with little potential for overtaking with facilities that do not seem to be anything special.

Silverstone .... probably the world's best racing circuit with adequate facilities

Today has proved to me that Ecclestone's decision on the British GP has little or nothing to do with racing.


----------



## jasonm

What took you so long?


----------



## jasonm

Piss.... h34r:


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> What took you so long?


I don't follow F1 that closely I guess :lol: but it is fecking obvious now I have see what a shite circuit Singapore is!


----------



## BondandBigM

JoT said:


> Singapore
> 
> Silverstone


I know where I would rather be



You won't find this five minutes from any track in the UK


----------



## JoT

Seems a good idea ... only hold races near nice beaches :lol:


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> Piss.... h34r:


Is that a new type of fuelling rig Ferrari have? :lol:


----------



## BondandBigM

JoT said:


> Seems a good idea ... only hold races near nice beaches :lol:


Or near shopping malls with more watch shops than you can shake a stick at, marginally preferable to freezing your arse of in a field in Middle England

:lol:


----------



## JoT

Ferrari - nil point :tongue2:


----------



## adrian

JoT said:


> Ferrari - nil point :tongue2:


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## jasonm

Whatever......


----------



## pg tips

jasonm said:


> Piss.... h34r:


I think you mean Piss poor! :lol:


----------



## BondandBigM

No problem, still some racing left to do and what seems like mayhem is just how it is done by the Italians.


----------



## minkle

Well done Williams


----------



## JoT

Go Lewis .... Go Lewis .....


----------



## jasonm

:beee:


----------



## PhilM

Fear not, it's not over till the flag has been waived :huh:


----------



## tomshep

And the stewards have checked Max's instructions to find out who won.

If you want to see proper motor racing, give the drivers another pedal and a gearstick and FOR CHRIST'S SAKE let us see an end to the murderous carbon fibre aerodynamic parts that will one day kill a brave young man.


----------



## JoT

Hamiltion nil points and Masa 1 point and another win for Alsonso?? What happened :huh:


----------



## sssammm

Stayed up to watch it, utter filfth if hamilton drives like that in the next two he's doomed


----------



## jasonm

Havent watched it yet......

Looking forward to it


----------



## PhilM

Poor Hamilton can't take the pressure :sweatdrop:


----------



## JoT

PhilM said:


> Poor Hamilton can't take the pressure :sweatdrop:


Neither can Masa by the looks of it; not bad, take Hamilton out of the race then get the stewards to promote you 1 place so you get a point ..... pah!


----------



## PhilM

True having just watched the race, I think both of them are loosing it... takes a cool head like Alonso to take the lead and go on and win :yes:


----------



## Marky

How the hell did Bourdais deserve that 25 second penalty?????


----------



## b11ocx

Marky said:


> How the hell did Bourdais deserve that 25 second penalty?????


He broke the most sacred of rules.

Section 1, Paragraph 1 of the Rule Book

Being in front of a car painted red which has championship hopes. In all cases the FIA shall apply some imaginary transgression and arbitary penalty to give the greatest leg up possible to the most worshipful contender.


----------



## Marky

b11ocx said:


> Marky said:
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell did Bourdais deserve that 25 second penalty?????
> 
> 
> 
> He broke the most sacred of rules.
> 
> Section 1, Paragraph 1 of the Rule Book
> 
> Being in front of a car painted red which has championship hopes. In all cases the FIA shall apply some imaginary transgression and arbitary penalty to give the greatest leg up possible to the most worshipful contender.
Click to expand...

So these rules are true...... :shocking:

THOSE NEW F1 RULES IN FULL

Following unfortunate misunderstandings in the Grands Prix at Valencia and Spa, the FIA has revised the Red Car Rule for Formula 1. These amendments will be applied with immediate effect:

1) Overtaking a Ferrari is not permitted under any circumstances.

2) In the pit lane, a Ferrari always has precedence over other cars.

3) Any driver finishing less than 25 seconds ahead of a Ferrari will be penalized 25 seconds.*

4) If neither Ferrari finishes in first place, the stewards reserve the right to declare the result null and void (or to adjust it as necessary).

5) Only Ferrari drivers are permitted to use anything other than â€˜designatedâ€™ parts of a circuit.

6) If forced off the â€˜designatedâ€™ part of the track by a Ferrari, the guilty driver should immediately crash his car and return to the pits

6) Any driver or team appealing against any FIA decision in favour of Ferrari may be subject to a fine and/or the deduction of points.

*Subject to post-race adjustment by the stewards.

:shocking: :shocking:

Link to Sniffpetrol


----------



## adrian

Marky said:


> b11ocx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marky said:
> 
> 
> 
> How the hell did Bourdais deserve that 25 second penalty?????
> 
> 
> 
> He broke the most sacred of rules.
> 
> Section 1, Paragraph 1 of the Rule Book
> 
> Being in front of a car painted red which has championship hopes. In all cases the FIA shall apply some imaginary transgression and arbitary penalty to give the greatest leg up possible to the most worshipful contender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So these rules are true...... :shocking:
> 
> THOSE NEW F1 RULES IN FULL
> 
> Following unfortunate misunderstandings in the Grands Prix at Valencia and Spa, the FIA has revised the Red Car Rule for Formula 1. These amendments will be applied with immediate effect:
> 
> 1) Overtaking a Ferrari is not permitted under any circumstances.
> 
> 2) In the pit lane, a Ferrari always has precedence over other cars.
> 
> 3) Any driver finishing less than 25 seconds ahead of a Ferrari will be penalized 25 seconds.*
> 
> 4) If neither Ferrari finishes in first place, the stewards reserve the right to declare the result null and void (or to adjust it as necessary).
> 
> 5) Only Ferrari drivers are permitted to use anything other than â€˜designatedâ€™ parts of a circuit.
> 
> 6) If forced off the â€˜designatedâ€™ part of the track by a Ferrari, the guilty driver should immediately crash his car and return to the pits
> 
> 6) Any driver or team appealing against any FIA decision in favour of Ferrari may be subject to a fine and/or the deduction of points.
> 
> *Subject to post-race adjustment by the stewards.
> 
> :shocking: :shocking:
> 
> Link to Sniffpetrol
Click to expand...

You forgot the Ferrari bonus nurse (unconfirmed nazi) party with blonds on high heels inspecting your privates. Disclaimer: only for very, very, very qualified members.


----------



## JoT

Go Lewis .......... :lol:


----------



## jasonm




----------



## JoT

I thought team orders were banned ......... except when it is Ferrari obviously :huh:

Anyway well done Hamilton :clap:


----------



## Agent orange

JoT said:


> I thought team orders were banned ......... except when it is Ferrari obviously :huh:
> 
> Anyway well done Hamilton :clap:


Hilarious to see just how embarrassed the drivers and team were when pressed about it though. Can't help but think that if the roles had been reversed and Kovalainen had let Lewis by I bet Ferrari would have launched a complaint straight away.

Anyway well done Lewis and McLaren.

Cheers,

Gary


----------



## Stanford

JoT said:


> I thought team orders were banned ......... except when it is Ferrari obviously :huh:
> 
> Anyway well done Hamilton :clap:


ditto :thumbup:


----------



## PhilM

Well with this result, it makes Brazil an interesting race :yes:

Which is a good thing for F1.


----------



## JoT

Article 39.1 Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited.

Hmmm :huh:


----------



## jasonm

JoT said:


> Article 39.1 Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited.
> 
> Hmmm :huh:


Trouble is you wont ever get it not happening, Ferrari wouldn't have complained had it been McNuggets, its happened before with all teams, the effect of coming down hard on this would be that the car in front would have a long pit stop caused by for example a dodgy wheel nut, or a slow fill of fuel, or go wide in a corner, this would have the effect of being completely unprovable as orders but immensely obvious, and therefore make the FIA look bad (again) so this sort of thing happens.....

The no team orders rule is a stupid one, its always been part of racing.... Its called teamwork........


----------



## Robert

Well, predictions for tomorrow?

I'll go for Massa winning the race and Hamilton doing something stupid


----------



## pg tips

*GO LEWIS!*


----------



## thunderbolt

pg tips said:


> *GO LEWIS!*


+1


----------



## PhilM

It's going to be one hell of a race, I just hope Ron lets him race to the end :yes:


----------



## Stuart Davies

oh dear oh dear 

Edit - *YES YES YES*


----------



## jasonm

Wow!

What a final lap.... 

Incredible stuff...

Well done Lewis


----------



## JoT

What happened to Glock on the last lap?


----------



## PhilM

Has to be one of the best races this season, what a way to finish :clap:


----------



## Guest

PhilM said:


> Has to be one of the best races this season, what a way to finish :clap:


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Bloody great :rltb:


----------



## jasonm

JoT said:


> What happened to Glock on the last lap?


He got a radio call


----------



## thunderbolt

Absolutely fantastic. Well done Lewis. :clap: :clap: :clap:


----------



## jasonm

I still cant believe ITV have had the F1 for 12 years!


----------



## rhaythorne

JoT said:


> What happened to Glock on the last lap?


I don't know, but I'm pretty sure he'll be waking up next to a horse's head tomorrow morning.


----------



## Guest

Congrats, I think :huh: .

But, I fear a publicity monster has just been born that'll make Beckham look like a hermit.


----------



## pg tips

Fan Bloody Tastic!

What a last lap, talk about last minute winner!

I shouted at the top of my voice "THAT'S GLOCK!" as they went round that bend 

I knew the Donkey follower would call it a fix though  :lol:


----------



## Robert

Great finish to the season (other than DC of course  )

Feel sorry for Massa - he had a great season.

I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso features highly next year


----------



## JoT

catflem said:


> Congrats, I think :huh: .
> 
> But, I fear a publicity monster has just been born that'll make Beckham look like a hermit.


I know ... I have a feeling events over the next few days will only compound it


----------



## Roger

Great... I am so pleased

Not only a victory over the other drivers but also over some biased and stupid stewards decisions who seemed hell-bent on preventing a Hamilton win.

Look forward to seeing the No1 on an Mac where it belongs......well done Ron, Lewis and all the team.


----------



## JoT

Roger said:


> Not only a victory over the other drivers but also over some biased and stupid stewards decisions who seemed hell-bent on preventing a Hamilton win.


Very much so; some of this years decisions have been a disgrace.

Is it right that Lewis/McLaren is the first all British combination world champion since James Hunt?


----------



## Steve264

I was actually crying and shaking as he crossed the line. Bloody fantastic. Very much deserved: he is the best I have seen since Ayrton.

I do agree about the publicity monster, and I think he's liable to some influence from (what I consider) the wrong types, due to his being black and hip.

But let's just savour the next few seasons' racing, with a new formula, the competition between Hammy, Nando, Vettel, Kubica and Raikonnen - and no f******g adverts!!!!!!!!

:tongue2:


----------



## magnet

JoT said:


> Is it right that Lewis/McLaren is the first all British combination world champion since James Hunt?


No. Damon Hill and Williams in 96 i think.

Congrats to Hamilton and all that, but there's something about him that i just can't warm to :huh:

The last six laps were awesome though, real edge of the seat stuff!


----------



## Griff

Great result...........................LEWIS is the   guy!!!!!


----------



## Pudgey

Since I live in Letchworth (Yes practically Hamilton's back yard about 7 miles from Stevenage), so it is pretty cool to have someone so close to home become WORLD CHAMPION!

I never gave up hope even on the last lap.

We had champaigne to celebrate!

I am very proud of Hamilton and think he is a worthy winner of the championship


----------



## Andy Tims

A few thoughts:-

Very pleased to see Lewis win. Not for his performance in Brasil, but throughout the season in the face of some very dubious decisions.

A great shame for Massa to loose like that. Dissapointing for the Brasilian fans too, but all that booing was very poor form

What happened to Timo Glock - defo seemed to slow right up on the last lap.

Shame that Coulthard couldn't have gone out on more of a high.


----------



## Griff

The last rain shower caused Glock to lose grip and he had the wrong tyres.

Lewis gambled and changed his but it was a nail biting decision for him and it was just in the nick of time.

Hell of a way to win


----------



## Guest

magnet said:


> JoT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it right that Lewis/McLaren is the first all British combination world champion since James Hunt?
> 
> 
> 
> No. Damon Hill and Williams in 96 i think.
> 
> Congrats to Hamilton and all that, but there's something about him that i just can't warm to :huh:
> 
> The last six laps were awesome though, real edge of the seat stuff!
Click to expand...

It depends where you draw the line - if memory serves me right Hill and Mansell had Japenese engines, Hamilton has a German engine.

So my vote as the last all British combination would go to Hunt, in a Mclaren, with the Cosworth engine.


----------



## jasonm

Anyway...

Congratulations to Ferrari for winning the constructors championship


----------



## Griff

catflem said:


> magnet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it right that Lewis/McLaren is the first all British combination world champion since James Hunt?
> 
> 
> 
> No. Damon Hill and Williams in 96 i think.
> 
> Congrats to Hamilton and all that, but there's something about him that i just can't warm to :huh:
> 
> The last six laps were awesome though, real edge of the seat stuff!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It depends where you draw the line - if memory serves me right Hill and Mansell had Japenese engines, Hamilton has a German engine.
> 
> So my vote as the last all British combination would go to Hunt, in a Mclaren, with the Cosworth engine.
Click to expand...

Wasn't Mansell's car a Williams Renault?


----------



## Robert

Yep, Renault V10


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> Anyway...
> 
> Congratulations to Ferrari for winning the constructors championship


The best part of the race yesterday was shot of the Ferrari management hugging each other for about 20 seconds until they realised Hammie's mate had let him past :tongue2:

But well done on the constructors championship, although if McLaren had a decent number 2 driver they might have sneaked it.


----------



## PhilM

JoT said:


> although if McLaren had a decent number 2 driver they might have sneaked it.


I've just heard Glock has been called up for the 2nd seat next year h34r:


----------



## Griff

JoT said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway...
> 
> Congratulations to Ferrari for winning the constructors championship
> 
> 
> 
> The best part of the race yesterday was shot of the Ferrari management hugging each other for about 20 seconds until *they realised Hammie's mate had let him past :tongue2: *But well done on the constructors championship, although if McLaren had a decent number 2 driver they might have sneaked it.
Click to expand...

 

Glock lost grip on the wrong tyres.

There was no letting him pass!!!!


----------



## Robert

Griff said:


> Glock lost grip on the wrong tyres.
> 
> There was no letting him pass!!!!


Seriously, is that what happened? I've watched the coverage a few times and haven't actually seen Hamilton passing him.


----------



## Griff

Yes.............Hamilton changed to wet tyres and Glock didn't.


----------



## in_denial

Griff said:


> Yes.............Hamilton changed to wet tyres and Glock didn't.


Which was the only reason Glock was in front in the first place ... something the frothing conspiracy theorists ignore as they rush to accuse Glock of underhand behaviour (none on this thread I hasten to add!)

I'm glad Hamilton got the championship this year, but felt it was not as satisfying as his first season...strange to say about a year in which he won the first race, Monaco, his home GP and Spa (in my view anyway!) ... I think it was down to two things... he either won or he looked slow, whereas last year he looked a real contender most races, and this year the stewards tinkered so much with the results that I got fed up with it...

-- Tim


----------



## pg tips

What gets me is this "greatest race ever" *****!!!

It wasn't a great race at all. The 1st corner was a bit iffy for 2 cars (DC :cry2 Vettle did well, the rain at the start made them think a little bit (Vettle should have stuck more fuel in) and then the rain at the end made them think again. As Tim says Timo :notworthy: Glock stayed on drys. If Lewis had stayed on drys he still would have beaten Glock, as it was Hamilton was lucky to some extent that Glock couldn't get the grip on the last lap, if the rain had eased off just for 60 seconds...

But best race ever? Nah, best last lap of the last race of a season... probably.

As Tim says the stewards interfering ruined the RACING for me. F1 has got to do something to get me watching regularly again.


----------



## strange_too

The new spec aero is being tested today at Barcelona, will be interesting to see the cars develop after the 2009 stuff is released


----------



## jasonm

> Bernie Ecclestone is planning to revolutionise the scoring system in Formula 1 by introducing gold, silver and bronze medals instead of championship points.
> 
> In Ecclestoneâ€™s vision the driver with the most race wins would become world champion, doing away with the need for points to decide the title outcome.
> 
> The F1 supremo claims his plans have wide support and says he is confident the new scoring system will be in place in time for next year's season-opening Australian Grand Prix.
> 
> â€œThe FIA and all the teams are behind it and it will be done,â€ he told The Times.
> 
> â€œEverybody understands gold medals and silver and bronze.
> 
> â€œNearly all sports are done that way.
> 
> Bernie Ecclestone is planning to revolutionise the scoring system in Formula 1 by introducing gold, silver and bronze medals instead of championship points.
> 
> In Ecclestoneâ€™s vision the driver with the most race wins would become world champion, doing away with the need for points to decide the title outcome.
> 
> The F1 supremo claims his plans have wide support and says he is confident the new scoring system will be in place in time for next year's season-opening Australian Grand Prix.
> 
> â€œThe FIA and all the teams are behind it and it will be done,â€ he told The Times.
> 
> â€œEverybody understands gold medals and silver and bronze.
> 
> â€œNearly all sports are done that way.
> 
> â€œThe whole point will be, when they get to Melbourne for the first race, the guys will want to leave there with a gold medal.
> 
> â€œThey don't want to leave with 10, eight or six points.â€
> 
> Under Ecclestoneâ€™s proposed medal system, Lewis Hamilton would have lost this yearâ€™s championship by a single win to Felipe Massa.
> 
> Ecclestone believes that putting the emphasis on race victories will lead to more overtaking at the front, as drivers would not benefit from driving conservatively to bolster their points tallies.
> 
> â€œThe need for it [a medal system] was highlighted at the Brazilian Grand Prix at the end of this season when Hamilton only had to finish in the top five to win the title, not win," he said.
> 
> â€œSo this will encourage overtaking.â€
> 
> For the change to go ahead it will need the FIAâ€™s approval at the next meeting of the World Motor Sport Council in December.


Sounds Ok to me


----------



## pg tips

It's a frigging mockery! Some of the greatest world championships have been decided by someone only needing a point or two in the last race.

I think Mansell would have beaten Prost in 86 under this system (the infamous tyre blowout race in Adelaide)?


----------



## jasonm

Yeah, but the present system rewards the most consistent drivers not necessarily the best, You could win the championship if you came third in every race and the winners only won some of the time....


----------



## Robert

The idea of gold, silver and bronze sounds a bit naff but the championship going to the winner of most races should make it better all season. I like it.


----------



## pg tips

I can't understand this at all, Your nursing your car round in the 5th race of the season, a season which is a marathon not a sprint, trying to get it across the line in 2nd or 3rd knowing full well those points might be enough when it comes to the last race.

Is Bernie really saying it would be better for the sport that you floor it and blow the engine, with the possibility of causing an accident in the very very slim hope you might be able to get somewhere near the leader but you know anyway that you'll never pass?

crazy!

btw how many championships have there been where the champion did not win the most races? Not many I bet.


----------



## jasonm

This year is one of them :lol:


----------



## pg tips

Ah so it is his true anti McLaren colours coming through then.

Massa had 5 races where he didn't score Lewis only had 4, perhaps the donkies should learn to build a better car


----------



## Robert

pg tips said:


> Ah so it is his true anti McLaren colours coming through then.
> 
> Massa had 5 races where he didn't score Lewis only had 4, perhaps the donkies should learn to build a better car


Hopefully they would all learn to build a better car, that will win, that can overtake and finish races. No more trundling to a season victory.

A season shouldn't be a marathon - it should be a series of sprints


----------



## rhaythorne

Notwithstanding the fact that I'd much rather Massa (Ferrari) had won this year's championship, I think a Gold, Silver, Bronze medal system is a terrible idea as it removes any interest in the lesser teams who are never going to so much as sniff a bronze.

I've always advocated a linear system. Say there are 20 cars in the race; you get 20 points for winning, 19 for 2nd, 18 for 3rd, 17 for 4th and so on down to 1 point for last place with maybe options for 0 points for a DNF. That way, there's competition throughought the grid from the thoroughbreds to the also-rans.


----------



## jasonm

*The wife of Formula 1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone has confirmed that she is leaving her husband after 24 years of marriage.*

A statement was issued on behalf of Slavica Ecclestone on Thursday saying: â€œIt is formally announced that Mrs Slavica Ecclestone has filed for divorce.

â€œMrs Ecclestone has asked that her privacy and that of her children should be respected.â€

Divorce lawyers said Mrs Ecclestone could be in line for a record-breaking settlement as many of her husbandâ€™s assets are in her name.

The Ecclestones were ranked 24th in the Sunday Times Rich List 2008 with an estimated Â£2.4 billion fortune.

The son of a Suffolk trawler captain, Bernie Ecclestone made his fortune from television rights to F1, race hosting fees and other commercial spin-offs.

In 1999-2000 he netted Â£1.9bn from a bond issue and the sale of 75% of the business.

That money was invested in a Jersey-based trust fund which is believed to be controlled by his Croatian wife.

Ecclestoneâ€™s assets include a yacht, a Falcon jet and a hotel in Gstaad, and in 2007 he and Renault team principal Flavio Briatore bought Championship football club Queens Park Rangers.

â€œThis case may see the highest award to a wife in legal history,â€ Simon Bethel, an associate at the law firm Mills & Reeve, told the Daily Telegraph.

â€œPart of the family wealth is already reputed to be controlled by Mrs Ecclestone through a Jersey-based trust fund, and thus the area of dispute may revolve around quantifying the value of Mr Ecclestoneâ€™s motor racing empire â€" that rather modest concern known as Formula 1.

â€œShe could maybe end up with a third or half of his fortune.â€

Mrs Ecclestone will be represented by Liz Vernon, one of Britainâ€™s top divorce lawyers, who represented the wife of Arsenal and England footballer Ray Parlour in 2004 and secured a landmark settlement that gave her client one third of Parlourâ€™s future earnings for four years.

Fek!

This will be interesting :huh:


----------



## minkle

She's 28yrs younger, he _must_ have been expecting it. My mrs is 7 yrs older than me, shes expecting me to run off! :lol:


----------



## Guest

jasonm said:


> *The wife of Formula 1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone has confirmed that she is leaving her husband after 24 years of marriage.*
> 
> A statement was issued on behalf of Slavica Ecclestone on Thursday saying: â€œIt is formally announced that Mrs Slavica Ecclestone has filed for divorce.
> 
> â€œMrs Ecclestone has asked that her privacy and that of her children should be respected.â€
> 
> Divorce lawyers said Mrs Ecclestone could be in line for a record-breaking settlement as many of her husbandâ€™s assets are in her name.
> 
> The Ecclestones were ranked 24th in the Sunday Times Rich List 2008 with an estimated Â£2.4 billion fortune.
> 
> The son of a Suffolk trawler captain, Bernie Ecclestone made his fortune from television rights to F1, race hosting fees and other commercial spin-offs.
> 
> In 1999-2000 he netted Â£1.9bn from a bond issue and the sale of 75% of the business.
> 
> That money was invested in a Jersey-based trust fund which is believed to be controlled by his Croatian wife.
> 
> Ecclestoneâ€™s assets include a yacht, a Falcon jet and a hotel in Gstaad, and in 2007 he and Renault team principal Flavio Briatore bought Championship football club Queens Park Rangers.
> 
> â€œThis case may see the highest award to a wife in legal history,â€ Simon Bethel, an associate at the law firm Mills & Reeve, told the Daily Telegraph.
> 
> â€œPart of the family wealth is already reputed to be controlled by Mrs Ecclestone through a Jersey-based trust fund, and thus the area of dispute may revolve around quantifying the value of Mr Ecclestoneâ€™s motor racing empire â€" that rather modest concern known as Formula 1.
> 
> â€œShe could maybe end up with a third or half of his fortune.â€
> 
> Mrs Ecclestone will be represented by Liz Vernon, one of Britainâ€™s top divorce lawyers, who represented the wife of Arsenal and England footballer Ray Parlour in 2004 and secured a landmark settlement that gave her client one third of Parlourâ€™s future earnings for four years.
> 
> Fek!
> 
> This will be interesting :huh:


I dont think she married him for looks to honest ,but with that sort of dosh i dont think hes bothered especially with all those dolly birds around F1 wanting to make it big :lol: Jammy .wat


----------



## jasonm

Next years cars are going to look different! :blink:

Williams 2009 spec


----------



## pg tips

Been reading on the MacLaren website about it today Jase



> It's probably the biggest set of aerodynamic regulation changes in Formula 1's history. Almost everything â€" the front and rear wings, the diffuser, floor and bodywork â€" is affected.
> 
> All the top-body furniture has basically been removed. The rear wing is a lot higher, the diffuser moves rearwards, the front wing has been moved forwards and is lower and wider. The bodywork no longer features deflectors or hydrofoils.
> 
> once everything settles down, I think you'll see teams doing bigger upgrades. For example, you won't have three little deflector tweaks, some teams will bring an entire new floor or a whole new bib. For 2009, I think we will see performance spread across the field will be bigger. And there's also the potential for upset and the normal pecking order to be different.
> 
> every time you spend another two or three weeks in the tunnel, you can probably justify a complete new floor. Another few weeks and you'll definitely have a new front wing. The regulations have basically put a reset button on aerodynamics
> 
> *What does a 2009-spec car feel like to drive?*
> 
> *Pedro de la Rosa:* It's very different. Obviously, the slick tyres give you a lot more grip â€" so although we will be running with reduced downforce, the overall grip of the car won't be that different to what we had. But it's the balance front to rear that will change â€" the slick tyres have a very strong front-end going into the corners and they have very good traction coming out. Overall, to simplify things, I think the slick tyres will give us laptime in the low-speed corners and because of the reduced downforce we'll be slower at high speeds.
> 
> *Do you think it will make overtaking easier?*
> 
> *Pedro de la Rosa:* Yes, definitely. Considering this is Formula 1 â€" if people think the introduction of KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems) and the reduction in downforce and slicks is going to transform Formula 1, then forget it. It will still be a wide car, there will still be aerodynamic effect and offline will stay dirty. It will be easier, but it won't be MotoGP. And people need to understand that.
> 
> The changes are headed in the right direction. The difficulty comes from having so many changes and a massive reduction in testing for next year. It will make fine-tuning your car between the races very difficult. It's going to be very interesting


MacLaren will unveil the 09 car on Jan 16th. If Pedro and the engineers are right it could be a breat season.


----------



## in_denial

jasonm said:


> Next years cars are going to look different! :blink:
> 
> Williams 2009 spec


That does it! I'll be watching BBC 4:3 telly in wide-screen mode so the rear wings look normal, and the tyres look like '70s slicks :lol:

-- Tim


----------



## minkle

jasonm said:


> Next years cars are going to look different! :blink:
> 
> Williams 2009 spec


They look cool as ****, love that rear wing :wub:

Looking forward to Williams winning next year


----------



## pg tips

Honda are pulling the plug! 

Rumour has it they won't be the only ones either.


----------



## Guest

pg tips said:


> Honda are pulling the plug!
> 
> Rumour has it they won't be the only ones either.


----------



## MarkF

It's the beginning of the end for F1 :thumbup:

That car looks exactly like every other F1 car that has gone round in never ending circles over the past 2 decades. :huh:


----------



## Guest

MarkF said:


> It's the beginning of the end for F1 :thumbup:
> 
> That car looks exactly like every other F1 car that has gone round in never ending circles over the past 2 decades. :huh:


Thats what i was thinking Mark :lol: unless rules change in design itll be the paint job only


----------



## MarkF

Tip of the iceberg pal, if Honda cannot afford to stay in F1 then what is going on behind the scenes at other teams? 

It could be a good thing if the lack of finance shakes up the whole dreary circus, it's not as if I don't like motorsport, I do, I just hate F1 (Kings new clothes and all that). It's excrutiatingly boring and uncompetitive just like the Prem League & I hate that too. TBH, if people are popping their corks over new paint schemes then it's time to take a reality check.


----------



## minkle

The cars look totally different now.


----------



## mrteatime

MarkF said:


> It's the beginning of the end for F1 :thumbup:
> 
> That car looks exactly like every other F1 car that has gone round in never ending circles over the past 2 decades. :huh:


i was thinking that...........what exactly is different?


----------



## minkle

Ignore the different livery

2008:










2009:










How will the 2009 F1 rules change car design?

Grooved tyres, which have been used since 1998, will be replaced with ordinary racing slick tyres.

F1 car aerodynamics will be subject to new restrictions. Many of the small aerodynamics details seen on cars in 2008 will be banned. Rear wings are being made narrower. Front wings will be wider and lower. Drivers will also be able to adjust the position of their wings for a limited number of times per lap.

The purpose of the tyre and aerodynamic changes is to allow the cars to follow each other more closely and increase opportunities for overtaking.

Teams will be allowed to use Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems (KERS) from 2009, similar to the systems used in some hybrid road cars such as the Toyota Prius.

Engines will have to last for three consecutive race weekends. In 2008 they had to last for two.


----------



## BondandBigM

minkle said:


> Ignore the different livery
> 
> 2008:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2009:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How will the 2009 F1 rules change car design?
> 
> Grooved tyres, which have been used since 1998, will be replaced with ordinary racing slick tyres.
> 
> F1 car aerodynamics will be subject to new restrictions. Many of the small aerodynamics details seen on cars in 2008 will be banned. Rear wings are being made narrower. Front wings will be wider and lower. Drivers will also be able to adjust the position of their wings for a limited number of times per lap.
> 
> The purpose of the tyre and aerodynamic changes is to allow the cars to follow each other more closely and increase opportunities for overtaking.
> 
> Teams will be allowed to use Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems (KERS) from 2009, similar to the systems used in some hybrid road cars such as the Toyota Prius.
> 
> Engines will have to last for three consecutive race weekends. In 2008 they had to last for two.


But the cream will still come to the top so it will be business as usual I would have thought, still going round in circles same as before :lol:


----------



## PhilM

As far as I'm concerened, can't wait for Spring and the new season to start


----------



## minkle

PhilM said:


> As far as I'm concerened, can't wait for Spring and the new season to start


Exactly, if you're not a fan, get out of here! :tongue2: :tongue2:

The cream being Williams Bond


----------



## PhilM

Who needs Honda anyway, Jeson only ever crashed into people anyway h34r:

Edit: Although I hope Barrichello gets a drive in 09


----------



## mrteatime

unless you piant a car claret & blue, and get birds to drive round with there bangers hanging out........then i'll watch it


----------



## Guest

MarkF said:


> Tip of the iceberg pal, if Honda cannot afford to stay in F1 then what is going on behind the scenes at other teams?
> 
> It could be a good thing if the lack of finance shakes up the whole dreary circus, it's not as if I don't like motorsport, I do, I just hate F1 (Kings new clothes and all that). It's excrutiatingly boring and uncompetitive just like the Prem League & I hate that too. TBH, if people are popping their corks over new paint schemes then it's time to take a reality check.


Give me touring cars anyday, far more exciting.


----------



## minkle

bangers, :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## PhilM

mrteatime said:


> unless you piant a car claret & blue, and get birds to drive round with there bangers hanging out........then i'll watch it


I a true insight into the world of Mrteatime :lol:


----------



## mrteatime

PhilM said:


> mrteatime said:
> 
> 
> 
> unless you piant a car claret & blue, and get birds to drive round with there bangers hanging out........then i'll watch it
> 
> 
> 
> I a true insight into the world of Mrteatime :lol:
Click to expand...

 :yes: :yes: :yes:


----------



## minkle

pitbabes


----------



## mrteatime

minkle said:


> pitbabes


er....thats the link to "paddock boys" :yucky: :shocking: :no: :no: :no: :fear:


----------



## BondandBigM

minkle said:


> The cream being *Williams*


Another outfit bankrolled by the fcuking Germans, and in any case given the current state of BMW it's hard to see how they will be able to throw 50 or 60 million at two or three cars next year that don't even come close to being top dogs.

B.


----------



## minkle

Engines have been from Toyota for a while now..


----------



## BondandBigM

minkle said:


> Engines have been from Toyota for a while now..


Edit: was bankrolled

Just goes to show how much attention I pay to it these days :lol: :lol:, it's the same story though, motor manufacturers are going into melt down at the moment


----------



## MarkF

Same car innit? :huh:



minkle said:


> Ignore the different livery
> 
> 2008:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2009:


----------



## PhilM

Look closer Mark :nerd:


----------



## BondandBigM

Honda F1 team up for sale

As I said the motor industry is in meltdown they can't sell bread and butter cars far less fund an F1 team

:blink:


----------



## MarkF

PhilM said:


> Look closer Mark :nerd:


I give in :bored: Are you sure it's not the same car from a slightly different angle?


----------



## pg tips

great interview

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GNrS9RHMc-I&...=1&index=12


----------



## tomshep

Surely the question is what took Honda so long? Jenson has spent the last four years explaining to Louise on lap five, how the car was a pile of junk. They wasted a fortune by employing a driver whose commitment (if it existed) was greater than his ability. He obviously couldn't develop the car to go fast enough and that is his fault. Honda thought loyalty more important than success and that is their fault.

Meanwhile, Max and Bernie, having sold the pennies off F1's eyes are wringing their hands and saying it is all too expensive whilst trying to push for control aeros, engines, gearboxes, brakes, suspension parts, wheels and tyres. Bernie's respect for the "bleeding drivers" and the "Technicians who should be at home on their playstations" is well known. Homogenising the car into a one design formula means that anybody could enter a car (ONCE THEY HAVE PAID THE AUTHORITIES, OF COURSE) and the organisers could be rid of those pesky constructors. Meanwhile, the driver is the only one who matters so the concept of a team is lost.

As would be the genius of those such as Murray, Philippe, Barnard, Postlethwaite and Chapman.

Maybe after the debacle of the Welsh Rally, motor sport should wake up and realise that it does not need the FIA as much as the FIA needs Motor sport.


----------



## pg tips

Looking good for the world Champion. McLaren are flying in Spain, whilst the prancing donkies are stuck in a sand storm in Bahrain! 

Go Lewis! :clap:


----------



## jasonm

Mmmmm lets see...

Very difficult times for F1

There have been a couple of hundred redundancies over the winter, no specific test teams now, poor buggers.......


----------



## SharkBike

Anybody up for little NASCAR?

There's been some fantastic racing in Daytona this week leading up the 500 today.

Race starts in about an hour...can't frickin' wait.


----------



## jasonm

SharkBike said:


> Anybody up for little NASCAR?
> 
> There's been some fantastic racing in Daytona this week leading up the 500 today.
> 
> Race starts in about an hour...can't frickin' wait.


Oi....Start your own stupid thread


----------



## BondandBigM

SharkBike said:


> Anybody up for little NASCAR?
> 
> There's been some fantastic racing in Daytona this week leading up the 500 today.
> 
> Race starts in about an hour...can't frickin' wait.


I'll have some of that 

I was totally amazed at how steep the banking was at Daytona when you see in the concrete.


----------



## pg tips

The former Honda team have been saved :clap: good old Ross Brawn!










http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/7927488.stm

Jenson took a 50% pay cut! How will he manage on Â£4M?


----------



## minkle

Heard this on the news, good stuff, that car looks awesome, would be good if it stayed like that..

I wonder if Ross has told his 710 about his latest purchase


----------



## jasonm

I think the cars look great this season.....

Slicks, and reduced aero grip ( maybe) and the Kinetic 'boost' system....

If everyone gets them all working reliably it could be a good season....


----------



## PhilM

No that really is good news about Honda being saved, I just hope Jenson starts to perform like he used too when he was with Williams


----------



## minkle

I cant wait, Sundays off too 

BBC coverage should be very good from what ive read


----------



## PhilM

minkle said:


> BBC coverage should be very good from what ive read


Yeah no more stupid adverts at crucial times of the race :taz:


----------



## JoT

PhilM said:


> minkle said:
> 
> 
> 
> BBC coverage should be very good from what ive read
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah no more stupid adverts at crucial times of the race :taz:
Click to expand...

The BBC have made a right horlicks of their rugby coverage with lots of wimmin presenters who know nothing and do little more than read out a few questions someone else has writen for them :taz: I hope they dont do the same with F1


----------



## Robert

The BBC team for F1 looks ok



> The BBC has put together a top-notch team to guide you through the 2009 Formula One season.
> 
> Jake Humphrey presents our TV coverage, alongside 13-time Grand Prix winner David Coulthard and former F1 team boss Eddie Jordan. Commentary will come from Jonathan Legard and award-winning broadcaster Martin Brundle.
> 
> The 5 live commentary team is led by David Croft alongside new signing Formula One driver Anthony Davidson and pit lane reporter Holly Samos.
> 
> While respected F1 journalist Andrew Benson leads our web team.


----------



## Griff

I agree with Lewis

changing the rules


----------



## jasonm

Agree with what exactly?

F1 has to change, especialy now, F1 is a pure luxury product, its not needed, and the big problem now is sponsorship, the one of the first things to be looked at in a big company will be sponsorship deals...

The recent ban on testing is a great thing for spectators, the only time a team has to set up and test and develop the car is on the Friday prior to a GP, most Fridays cars didnt run, now they will be all out there trying out new stuff.....

Incidently, has anyone noticed that Honda are absolutly flying in their new car?

Button is joint favorite to winthe championship!

McLaren are not hooked up yet at all and are looking very poor so far...

I quite like the idea of the driver who wins the most races wins the championship and then point deciding the other places......

It should be a great season, KERS, slicks, less aero grip......Im looking forward to it


----------



## Griff

I cant see the new points system helping the sport, and I cannot see how it makes sense to eventually have a World Champion who has less points than the driver coming in second


----------



## jasonm

How many times have we seen drivers settle for points instead of racing for wins?

Lots....

Thats why it will be better....Imho


----------



## Griff

I think its because Massa fans are still pissed Lewis won the title


----------



## BondandBigM

The top teams will always be against anything that levels the playing field.

Jenson Button winning the championship 

There's more chance of a donkey winning the Grand National with me riding it :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## pg tips

Even Shumi is against the new points system!

It' gonna cause more retirements as drivers push for the win

Good old F1. Instead of the fastest driver and car winning the championship it will end up a reliability contest!


----------



## pg tips

You see Griff me and you know what's what! not like that Donkey loving Mr Miller 



> *Formula 1 has axed plans for a new scoring system in 2009, just nine days before the start of the season.*
> 
> The sport's governing body, FIA, announced earlier this week that the driver with the most wins would be crowned world champion. But following a protest from F1 teams, FIA says it will defer the introduction of the new system until 2010.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/7955790.stm


----------



## jasonm

Its only postponed , not cancelled.....


----------



## Griff

BondandBigM said:


> The top teams will always be against anything that levels the playing field.
> 
> Jenson Button winning the championship
> 
> There's more chance of a donkey winning the Grand National with me riding it :lol: :lol: :lol:


You mean you and this dont you!!!


----------



## BondandBigM

Griff said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> The top teams will always be against anything that levels the playing field.
> 
> Jenson Button winning the championship
> 
> There's more chance of a donkey winning the Grand National with me riding it :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean you and this dont you!!!
Click to expand...

I can drive, one of those would be no problem, he would lose  A donkey on the other hand might prove a bit difficult over the jumps


----------



## BondandBigM

Anybody got up or stayed up, sometimes insomnia can be a good thing :lol: :lol:


----------



## jasonm

Good for team Brawn!!!!

Congrats to Jensen


----------



## BondandBigM

Good stuff but the waters are a bit muddied with this diffuser debacle so I'll wait and see.

On another note to use a Top Gearism Eddie Jordan - COCK !!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## JoT

I don't get it :lol:

Does this prove that the drivers are all pretty much the same and it is the cars that count? Maybe they should get rid of the drivers and control the cars by telemetry from the pit lane.

Diffusers .... pah :huh:


----------



## pg tips

imo no matter how good a driver is if the car is crap you don't stand a chance.

What the brilliant drivers do is to get an average car going faster than an average driver can get a fast car going.

That's where Senna excelled.

McL & F will struggle to begin with, but it won't be long before they are back on track.


----------



## PhilM

It is good to see Button and even Barrichello up there at the front of the grid, hope they can make it last and that the issues surrounding the diffuser don't cause any issues after Malaysia GP


----------



## pg tips

Diffuser hearing date set for the 14th so we'll be 2 races in by then!

Toyotas relegated to the back of the grid for an illegal rear wing (too flexible apparently)


----------



## minkle

Who else will be up for the race?

I cant wait 

Go williams!


----------



## jasonm

minkle said:


> Who else will be up for the race?
> 
> I cant wait
> 
> Go williams!


Im going to try....

Its on at 6 am which is really 5 am , but they always have an hour guff before the lights go out so it will start at 7 am which is the old 6 am which is ok.....I think :huh:


----------



## BondandBigM

jasonm said:


> minkle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who else will be up for the race?
> 
> I cant wait
> 
> Go williams!
> 
> 
> 
> Im going to try....
> 
> Its on at 6 am which is really 5 am , but they always have an hour guff before the lights go out so it will start at 7 am which is the old 6 am which is ok.....I think :huh:
Click to expand...

I'll be up regardless, should be a good race. I still cautiously fancy Ferrari to come good in the race, maybe not a win, I think Baraccelo will be the boy but we'll see.


----------



## jasonm

pg tips said:


> Diffuser hearing date set for the 14th so we'll be 2 races in by then!
> 
> Toyotas relegated to the back of the grid for an illegal rear wing (too flexible apparently)


Thats interesting, so did Toyota bring non-bendy wings with them , just in case?  They arnt something you can just make un-bendy overnight...

I cant see them running what they ran in qually if they were deemed illegal...


----------



## pg tips

Jase they had 3 sets of rear wings aparently and it looks like they took a flyer hoping the ones they used either wouldn't get spotted or would pass inspection :huh:

I think we might see a lot of this sort of thing for a while.

It also seems McL were shipping new parts from the UK to Aus on Thursday so they could stay within the rules and actually race!

This will be the 1st time in years I'm gonna watch the Aussie GP live!


----------



## Roger

I found the presentation team hard work...they just dont gel for me.....

Talk about the Three Stooges!

Get rid of Jordan....he dont fit, and as for that pr**k Branson.....


----------



## JoT

Roger said:


> I found the presentation team hard work...they just dont gel for me.....
> 
> Talk about the Three Stooges!
> 
> Get rid of Jordan....he dont fit, and as for that pr**k Branson.....


I agree Roger, very poor, much rather have the old ITV team


----------



## Roger

John...

there,s another possibility........

suspend reality and bring back....

Murray !! :lol:


----------



## JoT

Roger said:


> Murray !! :lol:


unk: and it's go go go !!!!

What's the point of the "super softs" ? :huh:


----------



## jasonm

I really enjoyed it!

The commentary team were great, Jordan is a too much of a self promoting 'been there done that' knob, and I think Coulthard tries to score points off him....

I enjoyed the race and what a result! 

The cars looked more interesting , moving around more etc......


----------



## Stuart Davies

...worth getting up early for...bravo Brawn and Jensen! :clap:


----------



## JoT

And Lewis finished 4th .... good effort I think 

When the three in front of him get disqualified in two weeks time because of their dodgy diffusers Lewis will be the winner unk: h34r:


----------



## minkle

Aye, get rid of Jordan, bloody has been.

Good race 

Nakajima.... waste of *space!* :taz: :taz: :taz:


----------



## JoT

JoT said:


> And Lewis finished 4th .... good effort I think
> 
> When the three in front of him get disqualified in two weeks time because of their dodgy diffusers Lewis will be the winner unk: h34r:


Lewis promoted to third .... the dark forces are at work already


----------



## Alas

JoT said:


> JoT said:
> 
> 
> 
> And Lewis finished 4th .... good effort I think
> 
> When the three in front of him get disqualified in two weeks time because of their dodgy diffusers Lewis will be the winner unk: h34r:
> 
> 
> 
> Lewis promoted to third .... the dark forces are at work already
Click to expand...

 :yes: - it is a worry. :lol:


----------



## PhilM

Just watching it now 

I also have to say good on the BBC for bidding on it, no more adverts and no more James bloody Allen :thumbsup:


----------



## thunderbolt

Have to say I prefer the BBC coverage. No adverts is a godsend. Fantastic race and brilliant result.


----------



## pg tips

Crap car, relegated to the back of the grid, finished 3rd (soon to be 1st) :notworthy:

Hamilton is just bloody fantastic!

where were the donkeys?


----------



## Roger

where were the donkeys? :lol: :lol: near the back hopefully, still they do have Cheatmacher gawping at a monitor, so that must be well worth a few million euros??

Comentry team...very good.....as before lousy presenters AND good to have The Chain back.


----------



## pg tips

Roger said:


> good to have The Chain back.


yeah I fired up the vee and played along (as best i could) at the lunchtime re run just for old times sake.

It was a completely different world the last time it was on!


----------



## bunchie32

Well, I was there. It was awesome, atmosphere was great and the noise is something else.

Well done Jensen, a long deserved win.


----------



## minkle

bunchie32 said:


> Well, I was there. It was awesome, atmosphere was great and the noise is something else.
> 
> Well done Jensen, a long deserved win.


Nice one mate :thumbup:

Hope all is well


----------



## jasonm

pg tips said:


> Crap car, relegated to the back of the grid, finished 3rd (soon to be 1st) :notworthy:
> 
> *Hamilton is just bloody fantastic*!
> 
> where were the donkeys?




Trulli said he only passed Hamilton because he thought the Briton's McLaren car had broken down.

"When the safety car came out towards the end of the race Lewis Hamilton passed me but soon after he suddenly slowed down and pulled over to the side of the road," the Italian said.

"I thought he had a problem so I overtook him as there was nothing else I could do."

Doesn't sound 'bloody fantastic' to me  No wonder non of the other drivers like him 

Toyota are appealing the decision...


----------



## SIB

Hope Trulli gets to keep the result, will be good for him and Toyota. I haven't seen any replays but if Lewis did indeed pass him when the sfatey car came out does that not mean he has to yeild the place?? I've given up with all the rule changes!!


----------



## Griff

SIB said:


> *Hope Trulli gets to keep the result*, will be good for him and Toyota. I haven't seen any replays but if Lewis did indeed pass him when the sfatey car came out does that not mean he has to yeild the place?? I've given up with all the rule changes!!


No way!!!!

IMO Hamilton deserves 3rd. Brilliant drive in a flawed car


----------



## jasonm

Even if he did slow down and pull over like Trulli suggested?


----------



## Griff

Let's just say there has been far too much singling out of Hamilton for derogatory special attention and it's time he was given a bit more benefit of the doubt


----------



## jasonm

:lol:


----------



## Griff

Yes........I'm aware of your thoughts about Lewis and how you like to point out he isn't well liked, but I think the guy is honest and tells the truth. I want Hamilton to be judged a fair and correct 3rd 

:lol: :lol:


----------



## jasonm

Thats nice Griff


----------



## Griff

But of course............Griff is always a *nice Griff*   :lol:


----------



## jasonm

*Lewis Hamilton and McLaren have been stripped of their podium finish and all points at the Australian Grand Prix.*

The sport's world governing body said they were excluded "for providing evidence deliberately misleading to the stewards at the hearing on 29 March".

A post-race hearing promoted Hamilton from fourth to third after Trulli was penalised for passing the Englishman while the safety car was out.

Trulli and Toyota have been reinstated to third place.

The Italian was initially handed a 25-second penalty for the incident which saw him demoted to 12th.

Hamilton was summoned by stewards on Thursday to discuss what the FIA, motorsport's governing body, described as "a new element" of evidence.

It was not clear what the new evidence was, although it was thought to involve pit-to-car radio conversations between the team and driver, with the FIA ruling that there had been a breach of the international sporting code

Oh dear..... h34r:


----------



## Chukas

Griff said:


> Let's just say there has been far too much singling out of Hamilton for derogatory special attention and it's time he was given a bit more benefit of the doubt


 :lol: :lol: :lol: h34r:


----------



## Alas

Griff said:


> , but I think the guy is honest and tells the truth. I want Hamilton to be judged a fair and correct 3rd
> 
> :lol: :lol:


Fair comment....Oops wait a moment :lol: :lol:

Wonder if they'll publish how lewis misled them and was he complying with team orders to bend the truth.


----------



## Griff

Chukas said:


> Griff said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's just say there has been far too much singling out of Hamilton for derogatory special attention and it's time he was given a bit more benefit of the doubt
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: h34r:
Click to expand...

So this makes a few of you happy!!! :blink:









66% on the BBC poll thought Lewis was treated unfairly

F1 really is full of **** after all


----------



## pg tips

:taz: :taz: :taz:

When will F1 ever learn?!?

These post race appeals and counter appeals are ruining the sport. It's no good whatsoever sitting watching someone win a race knowing in all probability the result will change in the next few days. They may as well pack it all in and play tiddlywinks



> "We are disappointed by what has happened but in the circumstances we are not going to appeal," said McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh.
> 
> He added: "*There is no implication that Lewis lied to the stewards*.
> 
> "As I understand there is a belief that the team was not explicit enough in the content of the radio communications to the stewards.
> 
> "What they believe is that the omission of the information about the radio communication between the team was withheld and that is misleading.
> 
> "I believe it was a harsh decision. Lewis made a legitimate pass and then was repassed - at the time the team asked race control several times about the repass but they were too busy to answer that question so we felt the decision in the immediate aftermath was fair.
> 
> "I think it's a regrettable day. It certainly wasn't a deliberate attempt (to mislead the stewards)."





> BBC commentator and former F1 driver Martin Brundle said: "This does not look good for Hamilton or McLaren.
> 
> "Hamilton passed Trulli as he was off the road. Hamilton clearly wondered then, to give him the benefit of the doubt, if he had passed under the safety car conditions and was trying to let Trulli back through. "There was a point when he was doing just 15mph in his McLaren and Trulli had no option but to repass him.
> 
> "I think Lewis then saw half a chance of a third place instead of a fourth, went up to the stewards and didn't give them the full story.
> 
> "Now they've matched up his comments (to them) to radio content between him and the team, and other information they've gathered, and *they've decided that effectively he was telling fibs*.
> 
> "I think it's a big issue and it's not going to go away. If they were asked a direct question they should have given the right answer, and they clearly didn't."


----------



## Griff

Quite so!!!

It's a f**king joke

And how sad and sick it is that some have apparent pleasure in the tactics of hate towards a British World Champion


----------



## jasonm

Come on Griff, there is no hate anywhere... :huh:

Of course I dont hate Hamilton, I think he is a egocentric jumped up git who landed a great car in his first few seasons in F1, thats what has made him World Champion ....

Jensen is evry bit as good as he is, now hes in a decent car we can see it, lets face it they are all good drivers, these days it is the car that makes the difference....

My mirth is mostly towards you in view of the new facts coming out that put your faith in McLaren and Hamiltons honesty into question...

I doubt you will believe the stewards no matter what the facts are, if McLaren dont appeal then they must accept that they have been bang to rights in this matter........



> 66% on the BBC poll thought Lewis was treated unfairly


So what? You of all people dont usually accept the majority opinion as being right, so why now? Ah yes, its because you agree with it in this case... 

I probably said in one of the first posts in this topic, F1 is not a sport anymore, dont try to apply sporting ideals, there is too much business and money at stake, thats why there will always be appeals and counter appeals...


----------



## Griff

So you agree its gone to crap and the Stewards are detrimental and their decisions are based on money.

Hamilton seems hated by too many and quite frankly it isn't amusing in any way


----------



## jasonm

Griff said:


> So you agree its gone to crap and the Stewards are detrimental and their decisions are based on money.
> 
> Hamilton seems hated by too many and quite frankly it isn't amusing in any way


I dont believe he is hated, just disliked, why is that do you think?

It hasnt gone to crap, it has shifted in the way it is run, Im also not saying the decisions are based on money, Im saying the stakes are higher for the teams involved, they will fight tooth and nail for position and points as it makes a huge difference in the money they recieve from the FIA and sponsers...Thats why they appeal and there are retrospective decisions....

It has always gone on, Im reading a Martin Brundell book ( thanks Alan  ) and he was talking about how he and the Tyrell team got their 3rd place taken away weeks after a race in 1984 ....Its not a new thing....


----------



## Griff

IMO it's barely deserving of the support in gets, and no, I don't understand the dislike/hatred of Hamilton.

He's still the best driver out there but with a currently flawed car.


----------



## BondandBigM

Griff said:


> IMO it's barely deserving of the support in gets, and no, I don't understand the dislike/hatred of Hamilton.
> 
> He's still the best driver out there but with a currently flawed car.


Got to disagree with you Griff, he has been nurtured or if you like manufactured by Ron Dennis, he has tallent but he's not the best and the bottom line is that last year if his mate hadn't let him past Massa would have been the boy  and you should remember Ferrari won the constructers championship which is a truer reflection of last season.

It will all even out this season once the aero thing is settled, Brawn has an obvious advntage at the moment but once settled it will even out as it does most seasons. I still think Button is average, there wasn't to many people rushing to give him a drive even when it looked like there would be no team for him a few months ago. Cream will come to the top as it aways does.


----------



## Griff

We'll see. TBH I'm pigging well fed up with this thread!!!  :lol:


----------



## BondandBigM

Griff said:


> We'll see. TBH I'm pigging well fed up with this thread!!!  :lol:


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## minkle

Im not saying anything....


----------



## BondandBigM

minkle said:


> Im not saying anything....


Why

Do you know something we don't

:blink:

:lol: :lol:


----------



## minkle

h34r:

No, i just cant be arsed arguing....


----------



## SIB

Griff said:


> Yes........I'm aware of your thoughts about Lewis and how you like to point out he isn't well liked, _but I think the guy is honest and tells the truth_. I want Hamilton to be judged a fair and correct 3rd
> 
> :lol: :lol:


Hmmmm.....maybe want to re-think that point of view there mate . Nearly as dishonest as saying "I'm moving to Switzerland to get away from the British press and nothing to do with tax, honest govner" while whoring himself out to anyone willing to publish his story (how many books came out about him in his first 6 months of F1???).

Like others have said, i don't _hate_ Lewis and have no doubt about his God given and hard worked for talent as a driver. I find him very arogant and a huffy little brat as well though. Couldn't wait to get his ugly mug on ITV when he was winning but pushed cameras away and refused to speak every time he had a bad race.


----------



## jasonm

Well said, and thats how hes coming accross more and more these days...


----------



## Stanford

I've steered clear of posting on this thread because I really have almost lost all interest in F1, but not quite all.

What doesn't help my feelings towards the sport is the apparent nastiness towards Hamilton - how many have actually met him and can truly say that he is the arrogant so-and-so several seem to suggest? Do you know his competitors well enough to say they are better than him?

Whenever I have seen him interviewed he comes across (to me) as a remarkably normal guy for someone his age, in his position.

It seems that in this latest episode the team may have been a little economical with the facts, and while some might relish the opportunity to lay the blame at Hamilton's door, I don't believe he should be tarred with the same brush.

Whatever we think of the scoring system, all drivers/teams were competing under the same system, and Hamilton won fair and square - IMHO we should be grateful we have another world champion


----------



## pg tips

Jase I have one thing to say to you! *Schumacher*! Jeeese !!!

Stanford I agree mate, we have so few world champions in this country and world beating teams come to that. It really does sadden me when people find any excuse to have a go. If it's not bad enough F1 having a vendetta against him and McL!


----------



## jasonm

Stanford said:


> I've steered clear of posting on this thread because I really have almost lost all interest in F1, but not quite all.
> 
> What doesn't help my feelings towards the sport is the apparent nastiness towards Hamilton - how many have actually met him and can truly say that he is the arrogant so-and-so several seem to suggest? Do you know his competitors well enough to say they are better than him?
> 
> Whenever I have seen him interviewed he comes across (to me) as a remarkably normal guy for someone his age, in his position.
> 
> It seems that in this latest episode the team may have been a little economical with the facts, and while some might relish the opportunity to lay the blame at Hamilton's door, I don't believe he should be tarred with the same brush.
> 
> Whatever we think of the scoring system, all drivers/teams were competing under the same system, and Hamilton won fair and square - IMHO we should be grateful we have another world champion


Of course no one knows the true Hamilton, we can only form an opinion based on what we see and hear in the media and from other people...

Other people form opinions on ooo lets say Shumacher  why is the opinion of Hamilton no less valid? He is unpopular in the Paddock no matter how he comes across in interviews, he is a product of many years nurturing by McLaren who are renown as being ruthless bastards ....

I have a friend who worked there and Hamilton does not give many people time of day , he is arrogant and like has been said before doesn't like interviews after a bad race....

Even my mum said hes got a bit big for his boots recently!



> Whatever we think of the scoring system, all drivers/teams were competing under the same system, and Hamilton won fair and square


Ok, fine but then the same applies to all seasons, why the fuss about Shumachers championships... 

Just because he is British doesnt excuse him or the team of dodgy dealings, there seem to be double standards here , its ok for McLaren and H to bend the truth / rules , then its 'dont pick on them, but when its another team foul is cried....

Im just pointing out they are just as bad as everyone else.....


----------



## Robert

Griff said:


> And how sad and sick it is that some have apparent pleasure in the tactics of hate towards a British World Champion


The fact he is British or a World Champion has no bearing on my thoughts. I simply don't think he is the hero some people make out.

Of course he is a fantastic driver - all of them on the grid are. In the first practice in KL there is less than a second seperating 15 drivers.

Rosberg fastest again in practice - he was fastest in all 3 practice sessions last week but 1 of only 3 to drop position from grid to chequered flag


----------



## pg tips

Griff said:


> We'll see. TBH I'm pigging well fed up with this thread!!!  :lol:


I suspect it will keep going for a few years yet Griff, and to think it all started with one innocent question! :lol:

It would appear all is not well at the Big Mc L



> *Lewis Hamilton has insisted he is not dishonest after being disqualified from the Australian Grand Prix for misleading race stewards.*
> 
> The Englishman said sporting director Dave Ryan, *who has been suspended after 35 years with McLaren*, had instructed him to "withhold information".


----------



## Griff

Stanford said:


> I've steered clear of posting on this thread because I really have almost lost all interest in F1, but not quite all.
> 
> What doesn't help my feelings towards the sport is the apparent nastiness towards Hamilton - how many have actually met him and can truly say that he is the arrogant so-and-so several seem to suggest? Do you know his competitors well enough to say they are better than him?
> 
> Whenever I have seen him interviewed he comes across (to me) as a remarkably normal guy for someone his age, in his position.
> 
> It seems that in this latest episode the team may have been a little economical with the facts, and while some might relish the opportunity to lay the blame at Hamilton's door, I don't believe he should be tarred with the same brush.
> 
> Whatever we think of the scoring system, all drivers/teams were competing under the same system, and Hamilton won fair and square - IMHO we should be grateful we have another world champion


Exactly right 

Well said


----------



## jasonm

He must have known it was a dishonest thing to do then!

Your Sporting Director tells you to withhold info to the race stewards and you agree then therefore you have acted dishonestly....


----------



## Griff

Errrrmmmm*..................NO!!!*


----------



## jasonm

Whyever not? :huh:

'He told me to do it' is not a defence......


----------



## jasonm

Hes now apologized for lieing to the stewards....


----------



## SIB

jasonm said:


> Whyever not? :huh:
> 
> 'He told me to do it' is not a defence......


"Well judge, i had no intensions of stabbing my cheating whore of an ex-wife to death but my mate Dave told me to do it so really you should be sending him to prison for 25 years.....I'm innocent, a big boy told me to do it". .

Having said that, the Nazi's followed orders unquestioning (before anyone gets the wrong end of the stick I AM NOT CALLING LEWIS A NAZI just using this example to prove a point!! ) and there is the famous experiment of people being asked to electrocute others by people in white coats claiming to be doctors and the "victims" pretending to scream in agony. Very few stopped the fake electrocutions merely based on the fact someone in authroity was telling them to it.

So Lewis doing as he is told by an authority figure is understandable i guess although that does not mean he _wasn't _lying.....just lying becuase he was told to do it


----------



## Robert

The title Sporting Director seems a tad inappropriate in the circumstances


----------



## rhaythorne

I suspect that Ryan has been made the scapegoat which is a shame. But it's easier (and much cheaper in the long run) to suspend your Sporting Director and find a new one than it is to suspend your "star" driver and/or punish him and run the risk of damaging his motivation to perform well at subsequent races.

McLaren have been caught blatantly cheating twice now (remember "Ferrarigate") and it amuses me no end to see the familiar faces that always shouted the loudest when Schumacher and/or Ferrari bent the rules, frantically defending McLaren and Hamilton.

I'm sure that all the teams twist and turn like twisty-turny things in an attempt to eke out the maximum possible advantage over their competitors, but Ferrari are probably the best at it and succesfully manage to walk between the raindrops whilst McLaren have some tough lessons to learn.


----------



## pg tips

quallies are really sorting them out this morning! 

Button could be the next world Champion at this rate!


----------



## SIB

Yeah i enjoyed the quallies, can't belive the own goal Ferrai and Massa scored though, that's just plain not thinking and no excuse for it at that level!! Will be an intersting race for sure the way the grid has been mixed up


----------



## Alas

On a different note seems that there is not a lot of love between Coulthard and Eddie Jordan for some reason. Watching the two of them today just confirmed it and we're only at Race 2. Could be good fun as the season goes on. :lol:

Alasdair


----------



## jasonm

Jordans got a bit of a ego problem by the look/sound of it....Maybe a bit bitter over not really making it as a team principle?

He is always keen to point out he gave Shumacher his start in F1, for about 2 races until he got poached from under his nose


----------



## Roger

seems that there is not a lot of love between Coulthard and Eddie Jordan Does anyone have any time for Jordan?

Lousy presenter...I sed it before and I'll doubtless say it again


----------



## rhaythorne

Oh come on, it's only the second show and Eddie probably needs a while to get the hang of live TV presentation. I'll bet it's not as easy as the professionals make it look (just like F1 drivers really). I find his quips quite endearing in a "Murray-esque" kind of way. A classic from this morning when referring to one of the drivers was "he's flying on air" :lol: Presumably a muddle of something like "flying high" and "walking on water". Another I only half-heard was something along the lines of having "all four wheels off the ground" instead of "both feet on the ground" :blink:


----------



## Regal325

Lousy presenter...I sed it before and I'll doubtless say it again

I,d go along with that.....truly bloody awful, as someone remarked earlier "like the 3 stooges"

Still probably better than ITV though


----------



## jasonm

Isnt it nice to see Jensen giving a interview to Brundle on the grid just before the start


----------



## rhaythorne

Yes, a pleasure to watch.

Eddie's interview with Bernie was a bit painful though.

Looks like it's all over with the rain now though. Great race up to now


----------



## pg tips

I thought at last we are getting some great racing, loads of overtaking in the mix and a TV director who knew where the action was!

Well done BrawnGP and Jensen


----------



## Stinch

Jensen has long deserved success in F1. He is a much better driver than the cars he has driven and I think arguably in the top 25% of F1 drivers. Unusually heâ€™s even a nice guy. Sadly though I think Ferrari will again tell the FIA to â€˜jumpâ€™ & Masochistic Max along with rest of the red car boys in the FIA will say â€˜Yes sir how highâ€™. Somehow they will overrule the stewards and Brawn GPs diffuser will be deemed illegal. Hope Iâ€™m wrong but history seems to tell us this could well happen.

Roger


----------



## Griff

I suspect that will happen too.

Button is a nice guy, but I still think Hamilton is the best driver


----------



## Griff

BBC today:-



> Motorsport's governing body, the FIA, is meeting on Tuesday to decide whether Jenson Button's car is legal.
> 
> The Formula 1 championship leader's Brawn Grand Prix team, Toyota and Williams use a split-level diffuser.
> 
> The FIA rejected a protest by rival teams, who argue the design does not conform to the new 2009 regulations.
> 
> But the International Court of Appeal is expected to announce a final ruling on Wednesday and could deduct points from Brawn, Toyota and Williams.
> 
> An independent panel is hearing arguments from both sides at the meeting in Paris, where Ferrari's legal representative, *Nigel Tozzi QC, has described Brawn GP team boss Ross Brawn as "a person of supreme arrogance".*


----------



## jasonm

Whats your point Griff?


----------



## Stanford

Griff said:


> BBC today:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An independent panel is hearing arguments from both sides at the meeting in Paris, where Ferrari's legal representative, *Nigel Tozzi QC, has described Brawn GP team boss Ross Brawn as "a person of supreme arrogance".*
Click to expand...

Not that it's particularly relevant to anything, but I went to school with Mr Tozzi - very good at hockey, but showed no interest in motoring of any description


----------



## jasonm

Motorsport's governing body rules the design of the Brawn GP car, which has taken Jenson Button to two wins this season, is legal.

Hoorah!


----------



## pg tips

Ohhh Ferrari and McHell will not like that! :lol:


----------



## Andy Tims

Stinch said:


> Jensen has long deserved success in F1. He is a much better driver than the cars he has driven and I think arguably in the top 25% of F1 drivers. Unusually heâ€™s even a nice guy. Sadly though I think Ferrari will again tell the FIA to â€˜jumpâ€™ & Masochistic Max along with rest of the red car boys in the FIA will say â€˜Yes sir how highâ€™. Somehow they will overrule the stewards and Brawn GPs diffuser will be deemed illegal. Hope Iâ€™m wrong but history seems to tell us this could well happen.


Agree with most of the above, but thankfully it seems like the right decision has been reached.

The sceptic in me thinks that the potential public uproar had Brawn GP & the drivers (and the other affected teams) lost their points must have had a strong influence.


----------



## Griff

jasonm said:


> Whats your point Griff?


Ferrari didn't get the "point" did they!!!


----------



## Griff

I just hope everyone else adopt the same diffusers and alter the cars if necessary to do so.

So its indeed true the driver with the best car wins


----------



## MarkF

Griff said:


> I suspect that will happen too.
> 
> Button is a nice guy, but I still think Hamilton is the best driver


Does it matter who the driver is nowadays?


----------



## Griff

It seems not, and that's why I think the sport has lost *the point*


----------



## jasonm

Griff said:


> I just hope everyone else adopt the same diffusers and alter the cars if necessary to do so.
> 
> So its indeed true the driver with the best car wins


Dont worry about that, the 'others' have been franticly making and testing copies of the Brawn diffuser in wind tunnels for weeks now.... 

Its been tough for McLaren as their existing 'backend' is a integral part of the floor pan so its back to the drawing board for them

And to a certain extent it has always been true that the best car wins, Damon Hill springs to mind  The true greats are the ones that make a inferior car do well too....


----------



## MarkF

I was reading something in The Times at the weekend about F1 and (before I fell asleep) some old champion was saying that many things were more important than any modern driver, the driver identity was largely irrelevant, with the most important thing being the tyres! What a fabulous sport.


----------



## Griff

Well.........I have Michelins on me Citreon C1 :tongue2:


----------



## MarkF

Griff said:


> Well.........I have Michelins on me Citreon C1 :tongue2:


Good choice, I dare say that if they replaced Button with you then you would be leading F1 Griff


----------



## Griff

Lewis is giving them something to think about


----------



## jasonm

> Little, in truth, can be truly drawn from a session in which the dramas of the 2009 season did not flare up - and practice is rarely genuinely indicative of what will happen in qualifying or the race itself.


----------



## Griff

But Lewis's car is definitely "coming up to speed"


----------



## jasonm

Oh definitely, now he has his Brawn style diffuser...

His car is doing better so he will too


----------



## pg tips

don't worry, the FIA will ban McL next week!


----------



## jasonm

Toyota Qualified 1-2 for Bahrain tomorrow 

Great to see the grid mixed up this season....


----------



## minkle

9th and 12th   

Yep, good to see it mixed up


----------



## Regal325

don't worry, the FIA will ban McL next week!

They will do their best to prevent a Mac winner.

I,m sure I read somewhere that the poisonous little dwarf who runs the show is try get get shot of the British GP, apparently.


----------



## jasonm

Regal325 said:


> don't worry, the FIA will ban McL next week!
> 
> They will do their best to prevent a Mac winner.
> 
> I,m sure I read somewhere that the poisonous little dwarf who runs the show is try get get shot of the British GP, apparently.


Hes been trying for years ........

Other new circuits are queuing up throw money at him to host a GP.....


----------



## rhaythorne

I'm not belittling the achievements of Brawn, but whilst others are lauding the success of the "new" team, I was interested to note that, of all the teams currently racing, they have one of the longest uninterrupted lineages, second only to Ferrari. We all know Brawn rose from the ashes of Honda and some of us may remember that Honda bought British American Racing (BAR) in the 90's but I'd forgotton that BAR purchased Tyrrell which started life in 1958:


----------



## jasonm

Nice job Jensen


----------



## jasonm

BondandBigM said:


> The top teams will always be against anything that levels the playing field.
> 
> Jenson Button winning the championship
> 
> There's more chance of a donkey winning the Grand National with me riding it :lol: :lol: :lol:


Got your donkey warmed up yet Mr B?


----------



## BondandBigM

jasonm said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> The top teams will always be against anything that levels the playing field.
> 
> Jenson Button winning the championship
> 
> There's more chance of a donkey winning the Grand National with me riding it :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Got your donkey warmed up yet Mr B?
Click to expand...

I should have known that comment would come back and bite me in the arse :cry2: :lol: :lol:

There's plenty of racing to be done yet


----------



## Griff

some pics


----------



## jasonm

Superb pics , thanks for posting it here Griff


----------



## thunderbolt

Thanks for the link Griff, brilliant stuff.


----------



## minkle

Excellent, rear of the Williams - new wallpaper


----------



## jasonm

Jensen again! 

Great drive....

Lewis got lapped! :huh: Amazing how it can all change round..


----------



## Robert

jasonm said:


> Amazing how it can all change round..


Red Bull finished third and fourth. Bet Coulthard is kicking himself for retiring.

Can't believe Ferrari's mess yesterday with Raikonnens qualifying and then Massa's fuel today.

Well done Jensen and Rubens


----------



## PhilM

Great race but I do feel sorry for Rubens


----------



## Andy Tims

Good result, but hardly a great race. The WSB / WSS from Monza was far more entertaining.



PhilM said:


> Great race but I do feel sorry for Rubens


I know he said the 2nd set of tyres were poor, but there was no need to sulk quite so badly at the press conference in my view.


----------



## thunderbolt

Looks like Ferrari have spat their dummy out over the new capped budget. :dummyspit:

BBC Link.

Who'll be the next I wonder?


----------



## MarkF

Didums, didn't get what they wanted? :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## pg tips

pg tips said:


> I thought at last we are getting some great racing, loads of overtaking in the mix and a TV director who knew where the action was!
> 
> Well done BrawnGP and Jensen


Until we get to Barcelona  One crash, Button wins by switching tactics when his team didn't do the same for his team mate, and a director obsessed with Alonso!

Only good point was watching Massa trying not to run out of fuel 



> *Ferrari have threatened to quit Formula 1 at the end of the season if the sport continues with plans to introduce an optional Â£40m budget cap from 2010.*


Shouldn't that read *Ferrari have threatened to quit Formula 1 at the end of the season because the FIA won't fix it so they can win again!*


----------



## rhaythorne

pg tips said:



> Shouldn't that read Ferrari have threatened to quit Formula 1 at the end of the season because the FIA won't fix it so they can win again!


Ha! No, of course not. And it's rather ironic that someone who has called Ferrari "prancing donkeys" should make such an asinine statement 

Think about it. There's no way many, if any, of the big commercial players are going to voluntarily commit to a Â£40m budget and yet, if they don't, they'll likely find that the resulting technical restrictions will mean that they can't compete. So who's going to spend hundreds of millions of Â£Â£Â£ to enter a competition that they can't possibly win?


----------



## pg tips

rhaythorne said:


> So who's going to spend hundreds of millions of Â£Â£Â£ to enter a competition that they can't possibly win?


Honda h34r: :lol:


----------



## Regal325

Ferrari have threatened to quit Formula 1 at the end of the season because the FIA won't fix it so they can win again!

Never a truer word....or it means they havent yet found a way of cheating the new rules yet, even with that poisonous dwarf Bernie pulling for them.

How the Donkey team must miss the old days when, if they couldn't win on the track, they could start a protest or a court action


----------



## BondandBigM

Regal325 said:


> Ferrari have threatened to quit Formula 1 at the end of the season because the FIA won't fix it so they can win again!
> 
> Never a truer word....or it means they havent yet found a way of cheating the new rules yet, even with that poisonous dwarf Bernie pulling for them.
> 
> How the Donkey team must miss the old days when, if they couldn't win on the track, they could start a protest or a court action


----------



## Griff

Yes, what a bloody shambles 

ruling due


----------



## pg tips

The donkey's pleadings have fallen on deaf ears! :clap:

here's hoping they carry out their threat of not entering the 2010 championship!


----------



## BondandBigM

The way I see it regardless of Ferrari, is that F1 is the pinnacle of motor sport and it shouldn't be run with teams having one hand tied behind their back which capping costs will. Watch A1 if you want that, it would be like watching 4th divison football.

B.


----------



## JoT

That was impressive by team Brawn :yes: it's hard to believe that Button is 16 points clear :huh:


----------



## jasonm

I think its great 

I bet he is feeling so so good ....


----------



## BondandBigM

JoT said:


> it's hard to believe that Button is 16 points clear :huh:


Very

:cry2:

:lol:


----------



## rhaythorne

So, in light of recent developments, do we need to start a breakaway thread?


----------



## jasonm

Not just yet , these things have a habit of sorting themselves out....

I recon Bernie will sort it out and Max will 'retire' as he will have lost face....


----------



## oddgitt

I sooooooo want to thump Eddie Jordan!!


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> Not just yet , these things have a habit of sorting themselves out....
> 
> I recon Bernie will sort it out and Max will 'retire' as he will have lost face....


Max has got bare faced cheek 

The teams will want to get Bernie out as well IMO and set up a management company owned by themselves rather than making him richer.


----------



## pg tips

That's exactly what the power struggle is all about imho John. The teams want to run F1 themselves. It will happen eventually.


----------



## Chukas

Looks like an agreement has been reached for now!!


----------



## PhilM

Yep and they managed to get Max out after all


----------



## JoT

Hamilton .... :rofl:


----------



## jasonm

Yep :rofl:


----------



## jasonm

Nice one Webber and Red Bull!!!


----------



## BondandBigM

The tide is turning, maybe I won't be on that donkey after all :lol:


----------



## jasonm

Wishfull thinking Donkey jockey...


----------



## BondandBigM

jasonm said:


> Wishfull thinking Donkey jockey...


We'll see

:lol: :lol:


----------



## Stanford

I must be missing something - I don't understand what's so funny about a puncture :huh:


----------



## BondandBigM

BondandBigM said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wishfull thinking Donkey jockey...
> 
> 
> 
> We'll see
> 
> :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

Hamilton fastest and Button a second off the pace in today's practice


----------



## jasonm

I hope Massa is going to be ok


----------



## jeffvader

Me too.

He has a cut below the left eyebrow and his skull is fractured in 2 places. I've seen a picture of him just after the accident and it looks like the helmet did a very good job.


----------



## Stanford

Hamilton - wot, no puncture?


----------



## jasonm

Not this time, 

A good win for Hammy....

At least he took some points off Webber.......


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> Not this time,
> 
> A good win for Hammy....
> 
> At least he took some points off Webber.......


It was worth it t see that girlfriend of his jumping up and down


----------



## BondandBigM

The old order slowly being restored and Button back to his whining best running in the middle of the pack where he is more at home.

Haven't book the donkey just yet :lol: :lol:


----------



## jeffvader

Massa is off the critical list, but they are concerned for his left eye. BBC Formula One


----------



## oddgitt

Schumi to fill in for Massa? The net is rife with rumour!!


----------



## Bootsy

jeffvader said:


> Massa is off the critical list, but they are concerned for his left eye. BBC Formula One


Reports of him never driving again are now rife http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090728/twl-fe...ac-3fd0ae9.html


----------



## jeffvader

oddgitt said:


> Schumi to fill in for Massa? The net is rife with rumour!!


Better chance of Alonso coming across earlier. Schumi has everything to lose coming back & nothing to gain.


----------



## jeffvader

Bootsy said:


> Reports of him never driving again are now rife


It's early days, but if there is damage to the optic nerve because of the orbit damage I wouldn't be surprised.


----------



## mrteatime

oddgitt said:


> Schumi to fill in for Massa? The net is rife with rumour!!


schumi *is back*


----------



## SEIKO7A38

mrteatime said:


> oddgitt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Schumi to fill in for Massa? The net is rife with rumour!!
> 
> 
> 
> schumi *is back*
Click to expand...

*YESSSS !!! *:yes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/8172310.stm


----------



## jasonm

Woo Hoo!!!

Fantastic!!!


----------



## JoT

And BMW are heading out ..... looks like Max was right to push for a Â£40 million spending cap


----------



## gregory

Schumacher back.

Now that... IS sensational sports news!!!


----------



## Agent orange

Great news about Schumi I must say, can't wait until the European GP now. I'm not expecting miracles though, he's not allowed to actually drive the 2009 Ferrari until testing for the Euro GP and he is 40 after all. It'll certainly make thing interesting though that's for sure.

Cheers

Gary


----------



## BondandBigM

So long as he beats Button he'll do for me even if he is a German h34r: :lol: :lol:


----------



## jeffvader

Will make the 2010 car better, I don't think he'll be beating anyone as the current car isn't up to it.


----------



## jasonm

jeffvader said:


> Will make the 2010 car better, I don't think he'll be beating anyone as the current car isn't up to it.


I agree, its a brave thing hes doing from his 'status' point of view, he probably wont be able to be competitive due to the cars limitations and the press will be ready to make derogatory headlines when he isnt, he will be aware of this of course ...It will be more interesting to see how he performs against Kimmi in the same car....


----------



## jeffvader

Kimi raised his game at the weekend as the car seemed to click a bit more there. Just hope he didn't injure himself in the WRC.


----------



## Griff

oddgitt said:


> Schumi to fill in for Massa? The net is rife with rumour!!


----------



## jasonm

> Ferrari is seeking permission for Michael Schumacher to test its current F60 car in order to prepare for his Formula 1 comeback.
> 
> Schumacher drove a 2007 Ferrari at Mugello on Friday but has not been able to sample the latest car due to the in-season testing ban.
> 
> Ferrari confirmed that it has asked its rival teams to allow Schumacher some track time in the F60 before his return to competitive action in Valencia, and said it was awaiting a reply.


Good luck with that then Ferrari


----------



## Dorje

jasonm said:


> Ferrari is seeking permission for Michael Schumacher to test its current F60 car in order to prepare for his Formula 1 comeback.
> 
> Schumacher drove a 2007 Ferrari at Mugello on Friday but has not been able to sample the latest car due to the in-season testing ban.
> 
> Ferrari confirmed that it has asked its rival teams to allow Schumacher some track time in the F60 before his return to competitive action in Valencia, and said it was awaiting a reply.
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck with that then Ferrari
Click to expand...

It has already been granted hasn't it?


----------



## Robert

Dorje said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ferrari is seeking permission for Michael Schumacher to test its current F60 car in order to prepare for his Formula 1 comeback.
> 
> Schumacher drove a 2007 Ferrari at Mugello on Friday but has not been able to sample the latest car due to the in-season testing ban.
> 
> Ferrari confirmed that it has asked its rival teams to allow Schumacher some track time in the F60 before his return to competitive action in Valencia, and said it was awaiting a reply.
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck with that then Ferrari
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It has already been granted hasn't it?
Click to expand...

Fota has agreed but the FIA hasn't, yet.


----------



## Dorje

Robert said:


> Dorje said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ferrari is seeking permission for Michael Schumacher to test its current F60 car in order to prepare for his Formula 1 comeback.
> 
> Schumacher drove a 2007 Ferrari at Mugello on Friday but has not been able to sample the latest car due to the in-season testing ban.
> 
> Ferrari confirmed that it has asked its rival teams to allow Schumacher some track time in the F60 before his return to competitive action in Valencia, and said it was awaiting a reply.
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck with that then Ferrari
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It has already been granted hasn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fota has agreed but the FIA hasn't, yet.
Click to expand...

Ahh right, apparently they may look into their use of GP2 slicks at Mugello as well. In my opinion it won't be granted.

I think Michael Schumacher will be able to adjust quickly come Valecia Free Practice anyway. I can't wait to see the remaining races now, just a shame the next one is Valencia.


----------



## jeffvader

Schumi isn't coming back.

His neck is too bad to cope with the car & G Forces.


----------



## jeffvader

Luca Badoer will be covering from Massa now.


----------



## oddgitt

Gutted.......


----------



## jasonm

Me too....


----------



## SEIKO7A38

Bummer !! *+1*


----------



## Boxbrownie

Yeah........Ferrari obviously couldn't stump up enough for Shuey to ease the pain in the neck he has....now he knows what it was like for his team mates :lol:


----------



## pg tips

call me a cynic but he obviously wanted to protect his legend! The inevitable faliure would have harmed his reputation forever! Senna would not have worried about a stiff neck would he!


----------



## jeffvader

pg tips said:


> call me a cynic but he obviously wanted to protect his legend! The inevitable faliure would have harmed his reputation forever! Senna would not have worried about a stiff neck would he!


It's slightly more than a stiff neck. From memory he fractured 3 or so bones when he crashed the super bike.


----------



## mrteatime

jeffvader said:


> pg tips said:
> 
> 
> 
> call me a cynic but he obviously wanted to protect his legend! The inevitable faliure would have harmed his reputation forever! Senna would not have worried about a stiff neck would he!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's slightly more than a stiff neck. From memory he fractured 3 or so bones when he crashed the super bike.
Click to expand...

he's still a wuss


----------



## BondandBigM

mrteatime said:


> he's still a wuss


Maybe but it would have been funny showing up Button for the mediocre mid grid guy that he is, and I'm sure he could have done that even with a stiff neck and a dodgy car.


----------



## PhilM

Boxbrownie said:


> Yeah........Ferrari obviously couldn't stump up enough for Shuey to ease the pain in the neck he has....now he knows what it was like for his team mates :lol:


Actually Ferrari weren't going to pay him for driving in any of the races


----------



## mrteatime

jasonm said:


> Money talks im afraid....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Jason M *


when did you drop this jaosn???? :lol:


----------



## Robert

pg tips said:


> call me a cynic but he obviously wanted to protect his legend! The inevitable faliure would have harmed his reputation forever! Senna would not have worried about a stiff neck would he!


I think its always a mistake to go back, especially with the record he had. I'm glad he won't be competing.

On the more positive side, apparently Massa will still be on the BBC - guest starring on Springwatch h34r:


----------



## mrteatime

Robert said:


> pg tips said:
> 
> 
> 
> call me a cynic but he obviously wanted to protect his legend! The inevitable faliure would have harmed his reputation forever! Senna would not have worried about a stiff neck would he!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think its always a mistake to go back, especially with the record he had. I'm glad he won't be competing.
> 
> On the more positive side, apparently Massa will still be on the BBC - *guest starring on Springwatch* h34r:
Click to expand...

 :cry2: :lol:


----------



## jasonm

pg tips said:


> call me a cynic but he obviously wanted to protect his legend! The inevitable faliure would have harmed his reputation forever! Senna would not have worried about a stiff neck would he!


I cant agree Paul, he simply knew he couldnt have given it a good a go as Badoer can.


----------



## pg tips

jasonm said:


> I cant agree Paul,


Quelle suprise! :lol:


----------



## gaz64

BondandBigM said:


> mrteatime said:
> 
> 
> 
> he's still a wuss
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe but it would have been funny showing up Button for the mediocre mid grid guy that he is, and I'm sure he could have done that even with a stiff neck and a dodgy car.
Click to expand...

may have even driven into button on purpose after all he does that to english drivers great driver but a cheating boxhead


----------



## jasonm

Nice to see that Renault have had their race ban overturned and will race in Valencia


----------



## Griff

Is that some new kind of polyester? :bag:


----------



## jasonm

:rofl2:

Thats it, my sides have split.....


----------



## pg tips

Go Lewis :clap:


----------



## jeffvader

The new revision of the McLaren looks tasty and seems to be better balanced. Shortening the wheelbase by 7cm is a big change. Will be good to see at a proper circuit(Spa)next week.

Think McLaren can win tomorrow.

Can't see Luca Bad(oer)at Spa, especially if McLaren get the 1-2. Ferrari have too much to lose in the constructors.


----------



## BondandBigM

Looks like it's Button that's on the Donkey and not me :lol: :lol:


----------



## Griff

pg tips said:


> Go Lewis :clap:


Go go go that man go


----------



## Griff

p.s.

He'll do it with out "valencia" too    :lol:


----------



## pg tips

well 2 points from the weekend. It shows just how important the pit stops and tactics are and Badoer is proof positive that the skill of the driver is still most important! :rofl:


----------



## gaz64

Imagine if hamilton had had a scouse pit crew no bloody tire problem then..... Tho they may not have been his own


----------



## grey

Well Golly Gee an' Bugger Me (speaking hypothetically, of course h34r, good for Rubino.

BTW isn't Jonathan Legard rapidly replacing that winker James Allen as Mr Histrionic. e.g. 'Jenson Button's in real trouble' (Lap one, for God's sake).

Almost makes Murray Walker sound like a Professor of Philosophy.

ps I had to put 'Walker' in, just in case you thought I meant that other winker, you know the one, plays tennis. Andy, that's his name.

G


----------



## BondandBigM

jasonm said:


> Wishfull thinking Donkey jockey...


You were saying ????

:rofl2:


----------



## jasonm

Last time I looked Jensen is still 18 points clear....

B)


----------



## BondandBigM

jasonm said:


> Last time I looked Jensen is still 18 points clear....
> 
> B)


Every race he's throwing it away, I'm still confident I won't be on the Donkey


----------



## jeffvader

Well until tomorrow, Rubens is going take out a big chunk.


----------



## BondandBigM

*RET GB Jenson Button 22 Brawn-Mercedes crash 0 laps	*

*nul point *

*
*

*
French, nul point*

*
*

*
nul points; nothing, zero, nil*


----------



## SEIKO7A38

*Forza Ferrari !* :yahoo:

The Ice-Man cometh again. :clap:


----------



## RogerR

I believe to be a true contest of driver skill they should all drive exactly the same spec cars.

In these times of global warming and concern for the environment, I question the sense of these

teams shipping their cars and teams around the world. Quite a waste of resources.


----------



## BondandBigM

SEIKO7A38Fan said:


> *Forza Ferrari !* :yahoo:
> 
> The Ice-Man cometh again. :clap:


As I said right at the beginning of the season cream will always come to the top eventually, it's just taken a bit of time this year.

:lol: :lol:


----------



## mrteatime

RogerR said:


> I believe to be a true contest of driver skill they should all drive exactly the same spec cars.
> 
> *
> In these times of global warming and concern for the environment, I question the sense of these*
> 
> *
> teams shipping their cars and teams around the world. Quite a waste of resources.*


:rofl2:


----------



## jeffvader

Giancarlo Fisichella will drive for Ferrari for the rest of the 2009 Formula 1 season after being released from his contract with Force India.


----------



## jasonm

Wow!

I didnt see that coming.....Must have been a nice little earner for Force India....


----------



## jeffvader

jasonm said:


> Wow!
> 
> I didnt see that coming.....Must have been a nice little earner for Force India....


You didn't. I heard about it last Thursday evening and the BBC where talking about it all weekend.

An Italian in a Ferrari at Monza, I expect him to crash out on the first lap under the pressure.


----------



## jasonm

jeffvader said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> I didnt see that coming.....Must have been a nice little earner for Force India....
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't. I heard about it last Thursday evening and the BBC where talking about it all weekend.
> 
> *An Italian in a Ferrari at Monza, I expect him to crash out on the first lap under the pressure.*
Click to expand...

 

I had a strange weekend, just saw the race, wasnt listening much, Saturday night had a lot to do with it to be honest...

Monza should be good...

My pal Richie is a Chief Mech for Force India, as you can imagine they are still celebrating....


----------



## SEIKO7A38

jeffvader said:


> An Italian in a Ferrari at Monza, I expect him to crash out on the first lap under the pressure.


Italy expects, naturally. But stranger things have happened, for example:

Giancarlo Baghetti won the 1961 French G.P. for *Ferrari* at Reims -

.... the only driver to win a Grand Prix *on his (F1) debut* to this day.


----------



## jeffvader

Fisi in the team gear....


----------



## jeffvader




----------



## langtoftlad

Oh for goodness sake - how corrupt is F1

"Formula One's governing body has summoned Renault to a hearing to answer charges that they fixed the outcome of the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix."

Is it cheating or simply winning at all costs ???


----------



## pg tips

As I understand it Piquet Jnr has been dropped by Ren0 and may have a bit of a grudge to bear. However the coincidences of what happened during the race do seem slightly unbelievable. I wouldn't put it past any team to try and get away with it tbh.

Cheating or trying to gain an illegal advantage has been with motor sport from day one.


----------



## jasonm

A fine performance by the Braun pair today, and Im glad Force India were strong in this race and continue to surprise everyone...

Bet Lewis has a headache after whacking that wall!


----------



## jeffvader

jasonm said:


> A fine performance by the Braun pair today, and Im glad Force India were strong in this race and continue to surprise everyone...
> 
> Bet Lewis has a headache after whacking that wall!


Yep, great drive.

Very much so, he was hanging it all out with nothing to spare. He running purple before he buried it in the wall, unfortunate but it happens. Senna did a few times, as I recall.


----------



## pg tips

Lotus are back! :swoon:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8256295.stm


----------



## jeffvader

Nice to see the Cossie engine back, but I fear they will only make up the numbers. Especially as I see Renault pulling out after the FIA meeting next Monday.


----------



## BondandBigM

jeffvader said:


> Nice to see the Cossie engine back


Interesting, are they going to use Cosworth as their engine supplier. Proton have their own engine manufacturing facility and according to the article the team is eventually going to be based in Malaysia so I would expect them to want to some how promote the Proton name on the back of the venture.


----------



## jeffvader

BondandBigM said:


> Interesting, are they going to use Cosworth as their engine supplier. Proton have their own engine manufacturing facility and according to the article the team is eventually going to be based in Malaysia so I would expect them to want to some how promote the Proton name on the back of the venture.


They have too. It was part of their bid and the FIA looked favourably on the teams that bid with that engine supplier. Looking at it as a lump, it's going to be pretty under powered compared to the Merc which is the best lump on track at the moment.

The Proton name is going to play WRC under the new turbo regs that out soon. Mike Gascoyne is doing Lotus F1, formally of Toyota. He was also bought in to get the Merc engine in the Force India and Brawn quickly.


----------



## jeffvader

Briatore and Symonds Fired by Renault. Renault will not dispute the allegations, so I guess they did it.


----------



## jasonm

Incredible stuff....

These are going to be very interesting times for F1...

I wonder what the punishment will be?

Alonso excluded from that race?

Renault excluded for that season?

If its very harsh then the F1A do run the risk of Renault just pulling its F1 plug I guess....


----------



## SharkBike




----------



## jeffvader

jasonm said:


> Incredible stuff....
> 
> These are going to be very interesting times for F1...
> 
> I wonder what the punishment will be?
> 
> Alonso excluded from that race?
> 
> Renault excluded for that season?
> 
> If its very harsh then the F1A do run the risk of Renault just pulling its F1 plug I guess....


It's a sad day for F1

I think Flav and Pat going is part of the deal done with Renault to stop them being banned from the championship for next year. Might not get points for this season/next season and a big fine.

Alonso could be banned, depends if Pat takes the deal and drops him in it. Would mess up his move to Ferrari next season.

Having read the FIA dossier, it looks pretty bad.


----------



## langtoftlad

I don't see why Alonso should be banned - he just drove the race - is there any evidence he conspired to cheat.

By all means take away his points, and throw the book at Reanault.

Funny there doesn't seem to be the same outrage as when McLaren were caught cheating last year :blink:

Piquet should be banned from racing altogether, in any formula. It is totally despicable & dangerous to deliberately crash a car during a race. God knows what could have happened.


----------



## jeffvader

langtoftlad said:


> I don't see why Alonso should be banned - he just drove the race - is there any evidence he conspired to cheat.
> 
> By all means take away his points, and throw the book at Reanault.
> 
> Funny there doesn't seem to be the same outrage as when McLaren were caught cheating last year :blink:
> 
> Piquet should be banned from racing altogether, in any formula. It is totally despicable & dangerous to deliberately crash a car during a race. God knows what could have happened.


Depends if he knew, that's why Pat's testimony is important. As he isn't protected by Renault the way McLaren did with their guys, I'd say it's really going to get bloody.

Having read his statement to the FIA I'd say Nelsinho was put in the situation by Flav dangling his contract for this year in front of him. He won't be banned, because he helped Max get Flav.

Where he crashed wasn't in an dangerous place, but it meant the SC had to be deployed.

Looks like David Richards is taking over Renault F1.


----------



## jeffvader

Also if the race is reclassified, Lewis gets another 2 points. So he became World Champion by 3 not 1.

Which would also have meant that if he hadn't overtaken Glock, he would have to be crown champion retrospectively and it be taken away from Massa. Lots to think about.


----------



## rhaythorne

I haven't done the maths, but someone told me that if the points were re-adjusted for 2008 Massa would be champion and not Hamilton.

Anyway, Renault have been handed a two-year suspended ban, Symonds is out for five years and Flavio will have to spend the rest of his "career" hanging around his local kart track.


----------



## pg tips

no Hamilton was in front of Massa at Singapore so it doesn't affect the championship

The suspended ban is a joke. McC get a 50 million fine for lying about what they did and did not know about Ferrari, RenZero get a slap on the wrist for actions which could have killed someone!


----------



## jasonm

Thing is Pal, the McClarengate scandle was a few years ago when they could afford to impose such a fine, these days its different, if Renault got hammered too hard then they would just pack up and go home, the FIA couldnt risk that, Flavio was the sacrifial lamb.....


----------



## pg tips

Pal  :lol: typo?

I know mate and I bet Red bull have had a word about their engines but it's still a joke and will be seen by the general public as such.


----------



## rhaythorne

jasonm said:


> Thing is Pal, the McClarengate scandle was a few years ago when they could afford to impose such a fine, these days its different, if Renault got hammered too hard then they would just pack up and go home, the FIA couldnt risk that, Flavio was the sacrifial lamb.....


True, I don't think they can afford the risk of losing any more big manufacturers. Â The 2010 season and beyond would be mostly a bunch of teams no one's ever heard of running Cosworth engines and that wouldn't be F1. Â Also, Renault effectively pleased guilty and took rapid and significant steps to make amends before the hearing. Â McLaren weren't quite so forthcoming during their spot of bother and perpetuated the lie for some time.

I think the one who really "got away with it" is Piquet, who was not only central to the whole affair, but only blabbed after he got fired. Â He's never going to be able to watch "The Italian Job" without feeling a sense of trepidation. Â "Your car? Â Pretty car!"Â


----------



## BondandBigM

As Eddie Jordan said on the news tonight, he couldn't condone it but possibly the public liked a bit of that sort of thing :lol: Teams lining up to get in next year and TV audiences have never been higher. Watch American NASCAR and they are crashing and banging into one another for 500 miles at 200+ mph, probably why Montoya has done so well over there and makes F1 drivers look like big girls blouses :lol:


----------



## jasonm

Sorry Paul, yes, typo it was h34r:


----------



## jasonm

I just love Mark Webbers explanation of why he crashed recently in Singapore 



> Webber lost control after running wide over the exit kerb out of the 120mph final corner, sending him spinning across the track and into heavy contact with the inside wall.
> 
> â€œIt was a bit slippery off-line, and I was always doing quite well in that last corner so *I was just pushing a bit too hard and ran out of talent,*â€ he admitted.


----------



## langtoftlad

Personally I think its Mosley's retribution for Flav having the temerity to challenge the FIA.

A parting shot.

Thought this was funny though - in practice;

"Deja vu for Renault as Grosjean gets wide out of Turn 17, clipping the wall ..."


----------



## BondandBigM

Barachello crashing in qualifying I was banking on him getting up there and taking point out of Button in the race :sadwalk:

It's gona be close :fear:

The small thing in my favour is I think Button has lost his nerve.


----------



## jasonm

I still think you need to get your saddle ready


----------



## BondandBigM

I don't know I might just be lucky and get away with it


----------



## pg tips

In time honoured fashion... GO LEWIS :clap:


----------



## BondandBigM

pg tips said:


> In time honoured fashion... GO LEWIS :clap:


Actually I'm looking forward to next season, hopefully both Mclaren and Ferrari can put out top class equally matched cars and then see who's who between Alonso and Hamilton. I know I bang on about it but Button is just an also ran that was lucky to be in a car that gave him the jump this season where as Alonso and Hamilton are genuinely talented and still at the top of their game.


----------



## scottswatches

Next week in Japan button could actually win the title, yet because of the manner he is limping over the line no one is excited. My major concern is the wife and I are going away for a romantic weekend, and i have to get up at 6am! Any tips on how to get round that one?


----------



## dombox40

scottswatches said:


> Next week in Japan button could actually win the title, yet because of the manner he is limping over the line no one is excited. My major concern is the wife and I are going away for a romantic weekend, and i have to get up at 6am! Any tips on how to get round that one?


Do a good enough job the night before and she should sleep most of the next day.


----------



## jasonm

Alonso is confirmed to move to Ferrari next year :yes:

Kimi might be going back to McLaren :blink:


----------



## Alexm

i think next year will see hamilton storm it no bother. by far the most talented, even with a car which still isnt up to scratch if u can go by his team mates performances.... ferarri still arnt up to their usual best


----------



## pg tips

pg tips said:


> I thought Magny-Cours was universally derided by the drivers and regarded as one of the worst circuits on the calendar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike Suzuka which has been dropped in favour of Fuji after lobbying (bribary?) by Toyota. An absolutely unbelieveable decision imo.
> 
> Got bored with todays race on lap 3 and didn't return until lap 66. So much for world champion Alonso he went from 7th when I switched off to erm well 7th at the flag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kubica has balls though doesn't he, I didn't think he'd even be driving this week.


Well great to see Suzuka is back :clap: although the rain spoilt it today. Probably the best circuit in the world (although Spa might disagree) where Hunt won the title in 76, the infamous Prost Senna clash and where Hill just out drove Shui in the rain! Might even get up to watch it live on Subday!


----------



## gaz64

Can I ask A question? Is formula 1 the best baby food or is it just all hype?


----------



## jasonm

Well, 2 races to go ......Brawn need half a point for the constructors title , I make it that Button needs to take 7 points total in those last 2 races to win the title or to lose it either Barrichello or Vettel to take the full 20 with Jensen scoring less than 6 or 7 ....

Stranger things have happened in F1 though but its still looking good for Jensen...


----------



## JoT

Not being a huge fan I am guessing that other cars have caught up to Brawn technologically rather than Button and Barrichello losing the plot .... maybe :huh:


----------



## Javaman365

The pundits are saying Button is tensing up under the stress.

Tbh, watching him hustle round suzuka this morning behind Barricello, I think he's just playing the percentages game. He smooth and fluid compared to Ruebens - who was seemingly driving the wheels off the car, attacking the corners v. Aggresively.

Once again though, the newbie drivers gave a flawless demonstration of why they shouldn't be just dropped into an F1 car and expected to perform.


----------



## gaz64

IMHO it is more pointless than a pointless thing..... I used to follow formula one I think the boredom set in watching Schumacher win again and again and I drifted away......... I would rather watch WRC these days


----------



## BondandBigM

JoT said:


> Not being a huge fan I am guessing that other cars have caught up to Brawn technologically rather than Button and Barrichello losing the plot .... maybe :huh:


I think the natural order of both ability and the engineering has more or less been restored. Brawn were lucky at the beginning of the season in their interpretation of the rules which caught out the rest. In the normal scheme of things Button is a mid table driver that nearly never had a seat at the beginning of the season. Arguably he has been out driven in the last few races by his team mate who is almost about to retire. But that's racing as they say. Still a chance Button could blow it, there are obviously no team orders or Barrichello would have pulled over this morning, let him past and gave Button the exta points. The Constructors Championship is more important to the teams, that's where the money is in it for them.


----------



## jasonm

> Donington Park appears to be on the brink of losing the right to host the British Grand Prix after Bernie Ecclestone admitted he could not see how the circuit would complete its multi-million pound revamp in time for next June's race.
> 
> Amid reports that the Leicestershire track had missed an extended deadline to prove to Ecclestone that it had secured the financial backing required for the project, the Formula 1 ringmaster hinted that Donington's time was now up.
> 
> Limited progress has been made on the huge rebuild Donington must undertake to bring the track's safety, paddock and access facilities up to F1 standards, and Ecclestone does not see how the work will be finished in time even if track boss Simon Gillett pulls off the funding deals.
> 
> "It's not good, is it?" Ecclestone told The Times.


Shame really, would have been good to see a Grand Prix back at Donington....

I guess Silverstone gets a reprieve...


----------



## Alexm

i went to donnington a few years back and it just didnt seem possible it cud hold an f1 event there. it took us 3 hours to get off the motorway and park up, and that was just for a renault world series event. those sort of problems cant be sorted over night.


----------



## Alexm

also to me the track just didnt seem wide enough or long enough to make for an exciting f1 race


----------



## jeffvader

It would have worked, but they just couldn't get the money together. The European GP there in 93 was one of the best races I've seen, Senna was just fantastic.

Silverstone have turned down a 1 year deal, good time for them to play hard ball. With the MotoGP at Silverstone, it would be fantastic for the circuit to have the Formula One confirmed as well.

Massa did 100km in the 2007 on GP2 tyres today, seems to have got on OK.


----------



## pg tips

I can't believe DP will ever work, the infrastructure just isn't there. SS spent millions on the A43 upgrade.


----------



## pg tips

Rubens pole Button 14th! That'll shake it up before the last race if it ends like that tomorrow!


----------



## BondandBigM

pg tips said:


> Rubens pole Button 14th! That'll shake it up before the last race if it ends like that tomorrow!


 

I haven't booked the donkey just yet


----------



## Stuart Davies

:yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:

I'm thrilled for the lad, he has been the best all season no doubt! :cheers:


----------



## andyft21

Stuart Davies said:


> :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:
> 
> I'm thrilled for the lad, he has been the best all season no doubt! :cheers:


Can't agree more, well done Jenson and well done Braun


----------



## thunderbolt

First back to back British World Champions for 40 years  Congratulations Jensen and Brawn. :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:


----------



## jasonm

Woooo Hooooo!

Fantastic result!!!

:thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## pg tips

Some great driving today! A fantastic result for Jenson and the Brawn team. Gotta feel sorry for Rubens, he doesn't get much luck in Brazil.


----------



## Robert

Well done Jenson and Brawn. Great race and great driving by all (other than that new Toyota driver)


----------



## Agent orange

Massive congratulations to the Braun team, what a fairytale ending for them in their inaugural year.

Well done to Button too, that was a feisty drive from him and he took a lot of chances to finish 5th from 14th.

Gutted for Rubens though, I really hoped he would take the championship after years of playing second fiddle.

Cheers,

Gary


----------



## Guest

Get in there Jenson woohoo! :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## jasonm

BondandBigM said:


> The top teams will always be against anything that levels the playing field.
> 
> Jenson Button winning the championship
> 
> There's more chance of a donkey winning the Grand National with me riding it





BondandBigM said:


> Looks like it's Button that's on the Donkey and not me :lol: :lol:





BondandBigM said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wishfull thinking Donkey jockey...
> 
> 
> 
> You were saying ????
> 
> :rofl2:
Click to expand...




BondandBigM said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last time I looked Jensen is still 18 points clear....
> 
> B)
> 
> 
> 
> Every race he's throwing it away, I'm still confident I won't be on the Donkey
Click to expand...











'Which way to the Grand National?' :bag:


----------



## BondandBigM

jasonm said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> The top teams will always be against anything that levels the playing field.
> 
> Jenson Button winning the championship
> 
> There's more chance of a donkey winning the Grand National with me riding it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like it's Button that's on the Donkey and not me :lol: :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wishfull thinking Donkey jockey...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You were saying ????
> 
> :rofl2:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last time I looked Jensen is still 18 points clear....
> 
> B)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every race he's throwing it away, I'm still confident I won't be on the Donkey
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Which way to the Grand National?' :bag:
Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I still can't believe it, there's no way he was the best guy out there all season but it is nice to see another Brit win the title.

Where the f#ck can I get a donkey at this time of night


----------



## Guest

BondandBigM said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> The top teams will always be against anything that levels the playing field.
> 
> Jenson Button winning the championship
> 
> There's more chance of a donkey winning the Grand National with me riding it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like it's Button that's on the Donkey and not me :lol: :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wishfull thinking Donkey jockey...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You were saying ????
> 
> :rofl2:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last time I looked Jensen is still 18 points clear....
> 
> B)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every race he's throwing it away, I'm still confident I won't be on the Donkey
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Which way to the Grand National?' :bag:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> I still can't believe it, there's no way he was the best guy out there all season
Click to expand...

he must have been-he got more points than anyone else! i know what you mean though, but he could drive like a [email protected] for me-hes british and he won and thats fine with me!


----------



## Regal325

Surprising..........at the start of the season he had a car that most believed was illegal and it had an advantage.

To most peoples surprise it got approved and he won quite a few rounds. Then the others caught up and the wins more-or-less dried up.

None of the other teams had a clear enough advantage to win 5 or 6 in a row, so Brawn stayed ahead....

The championship was won by an amazing series of good luck and other teams ill-fortune.

Yes, Button is champion but he is neither the Worlds best driver or driving the best car. He is a talented test driver but not good enough to win on competitive driving ability.

Hes a Brit so good luck to him....he wont be at the top for long


----------



## jasonm

> Button is champion but he is neither the Worlds best driver or driving the best car. He is a talented test driver but not good enough to win on competitive driving ability.


Maybe he isnt the worlds best driver, but this has always been this way in F1, he has been good enough to score more points than the next driver, this makes him world champion, in fact he has been good enough to win on competitive driving ability, if he wasnt he wouldnt be champ..

This just shows that it is mostly the car that wins the championship, all the drivers out there have the ability to make the most of the car, just look at the Force Indias for those 2 races!

With a few notable exceptions over the years, non of them look good in a average car, but when the car is right they make the most of it, look at Webber, when the car is on form like yesterday he won easily...

This is part of the F1 game, to be with the team that has the car of the moment, the alternative is a one make series like GP2...


----------



## Javaman365

So after being laughed at for "backing a loser" - i had a BrawnGP team jacket in time for the season opener - i can wear it this morning with a particularly smug grin.

The other high point for me is that in a little 'Fantasy F1" mini-league, I'm still sitting pretty with a 31-point advantage - i might only have come out of yesterday with 1 point, but no one else scored anything!

Brawn team merchandise :Â£100

Supporting the team no matter the result : Your self respect.

Winning the double championship and being smug riceless.


----------



## Alexm

the race pace has been there or there abouts, its just been the qualifying of late that let him down. in any case at the start when he was winning with ease, his team mate had the same car but couldnt beat him. so how cud he not be a worthy champ? just remember that its also a team event, and the team interpreted the rules better then all of the other teams. so its massive credit to the team for giving the 2 drivers the best car at the start of the season.


----------



## Alexm

hopefully brawn will be able to put up a good fight to retain the title next season, but i think lewis and mclaren are goin to b the ones to beat again next year.


----------



## Agent orange

Watched the qualifying this afternoon and just wanted say what an amazing venue Abu Dhabi is :jawdrop:. I was blown away by the sheer scale of it all.

Let's hope it's an interesting race tomorrow, I'm really looking forward to it :to_become_senile:.

Cheers,

Gary


----------



## BondandBigM

jasonm said:


> non of them look good in a average car, but when the car is right they make the most of it


Funnily enough Damon the Dummy was on this afternoon :lol:

I'm not so sure, whilst the car plays a very big part imho it's the drivers that have that extra 10% that can drive a bad car and still make it look easy. Button ........ one hit wonder me thinks. In the last part of the season he has been out driven by, once he found his feet in an all new team to him, his team mate who in F1 terms is an OAP. Button had the advantage of having worked with his guys but again imho as time went on he been outclassed by Barachello once he got going and several others. And like the Dummy always whining, what was his excuse today, brakes ???? where as the likes of Alonso just says they weren't good enough end of and took it for what it was.

BTW will a donkey on Blackpool beach do I'm have a bit of trouble organising Aintree :lol:


----------



## jasonm

Granted, I think Button had serious nerve issues when things started to slip away half way through the season, I think he knew it was this year or never... 'Chello had nothing to lose by going all out, Button did, I think thats why Rubens out drove him, Jensen just needed points, any points and wasnt willing to risk it....

I dont think Jensen is anywhere near being one of the great drivers, he was consistent in the best car this season and got the points... Job done....

Damon Hill...Lol.... Now theres a guy who was gifted a world championship......

Get a photo at Blackpool and its a deal.....


----------



## tomshep

Gifted a world championship? Frank said that a monkey could win the World Championship in that car.

Then he hired Jacqes Villeneuve to prove it.

Hamilton's qualifying lap was awesome. :notworthy: Raw talent like Schumacher. Hope he can adjust to a much heavier car next season.


----------



## jasonm

> Gifted a world championship? Frank said that a monkey could win the World Championship in that car


He was right..


----------



## jasonm

what a great last few laps from Webber and Jensen!


----------



## JoT

What a boring soulless track!


----------



## PhilM

What a quality finish to the season; glad Webber managed to keep Jenson at bay on the last couple of laps :thumbup:


----------



## BondandBigM

jasonm said:


> Get a photo at Blackpool and its a deal.....


Okey Dokey

Big M is likes a weekend in Blackpool now and then and we haven't been for a while.

Watch this space as they say :lol:


----------



## jeffvader

Bridgestone are leaving at the end of the season. Wonder what they will end up using? Back to Goodyear group, as I can't see Michelin coming back.


----------



## jasonm

Just heard this........

Come on Dunlop, break out those stickys....


----------



## jasonm

Rubens is off to Williams next year....


----------



## Griff

Hamilton has had the luck of Jonah this season


----------



## Hogthrob

jeffvader said:


> Bridgestone are leaving at the end of the season. Wonder what they will end up using? Back to Goodyear group, as I can't see Michelin coming back.


Well, they're leaving at the end of next season. Why not Michelin? Because of the US GP?

I wonder if Yokohama might be interested? My money's on General Grabber though ;-).


----------



## jeffvader

Hogthrob said:


> Well, they're leaving at the end of next season. Why not Michelin? Because of the US GP?
> 
> I wonder if Yokohama might be interested? My money's on General Grabber though ;-).


I'm working on 2010 being the current season, as the 2009 season is finished. Can't see Michelin being interested in going back, costs are too high, that's why Bridgestone are running for the hills.

Yokohama haven't the budget. Goodyear, Dunlop or Michelin (only if they do a massive U turn)


----------



## Hogthrob

Don't Goodyear own Dunlop these days?


----------



## Robert

jasonm said:


> Rubens is off to Williams next year....


Well he should be the number one driver there. If he ends up second fiddle to Hulkenberg then its definitely time to retire.


----------



## jasonm

jeffvader said:


> Hogthrob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they're leaving at the end of next season. Why not Michelin? Because of the US GP?
> 
> I wonder if Yokohama might be interested? My money's on General Grabber though ;-).
> 
> 
> 
> I'm working on 2010 being the current season, as the 2009 season is finished. Can't see Michelin being interested in going back, costs are too high, that's why Bridgestone are running for the hills.
> 
> Yokohama haven't the budget. Goodyear, Dunlop or Michelin (only if they do a massive U turn)
Click to expand...

Its a toughie....

I would think that Michelin are the only guys who might just have the infrastructure and experience of modern F1 to be able to gear up to supply next year.... Can you imagine the logistics of a new supplier to get a competitive tire to the teams in 5 months!?

Im also surprised Bernie would have been left in this position, you would have thought he would have had at least a 1 season notice period clause in the supply contract.

Edit.... My mistake...End of 2010.....Ignore that shit above...lol


----------



## jeffvader

Hogthrob said:


> Don't Goodyear own Dunlop these days?


I believe so, but for the Goodyear group it will be a branding exercise. So if they want to raise the profile of the Dunlop brand Formula One would be running them.


----------



## pg tips

toyota have finally pulled the plug

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8341602.stm


----------



## pg tips

Looks like Ren0 are going as well!


----------



## jeffvader

No news about Renault until the end of today or at the latest tomorrow.


----------



## Javaman365

and so the blood-letting in F1 continues.  Who's going to be left?!?

At this rate, the big crowd pullers are going to either not be in the season or face a severe drop in spectator numbers and hence revenue share - while other race series like BTCC and WRC exist, the reduction in the number of manufacturers competing reduces the interest - WRC is a case in point....only two manufacturers involved as far as I can tell....a big disappointment from what it used to be.

Remember when the BTCC had Alfa, Audi (racing A4's which dominated despite being 125kg heavier, plus competition ballast to try and even the odds) and Volvo (being typically mental Swedes and fielding 850 T5 Estates!) in it?

Motorsport is expensive and I think there are going to be some more casualties.


----------



## jeffvader

Renault say they will decide before the end of the year http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE5A42QM20091105


----------



## jeffvader

http://bit.ly/V5N0Q worth a look.


----------



## Matt B

Brawn F1 may become Mercedes F1 next year


----------



## Agent orange

Mercedes Have Bought Brawn

Pretty predictable really but a shame imho.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 362295.stm

Looks like Button and Hamilton driving for McLaren next year though so that should be interesting.

Cheers,

Gary


----------



## PhilM

It was on the cards, and it will make 2010 even more intersting


----------



## tomshep

Though I reckon that Hamilton is the best British driver since Clark, I'm impressed by Jenson's character that he wants to measure himself against Lewis. He has matured as a competitor over the past year and finally cuts it in traffic. He is a watch collector, too so he's one of our own.

I'm delighted to see McLaren buy themselves out of Mercedes and I hope they royally stuff "those bloody red cars" next year.


----------



## BondandBigM

tomshep said:


> I'm delighted to see McLaren buy themselves out of Mercedes and I hope they royally stuff "those bloody red cars" next year.


Unlikely

I feel a prediction coming on

:lol:


----------



## itsguy

Worth it just to see Button and Hamilton in the same car, if that happens. Much as like Button, my money would have to be on Hamilton.


----------



## tomshep

Woe, Woe and thrice woe. It has been suggested that Michael Schumacher is to drive the Mercedes Brawnz. I'd be so delighted to see that.

Trouble is that the source of the rumour is

Eddie Jordan. Damn! Oh well, it was a nice idea.


----------



## itsguy

Hmmm, Eddie Jordan? Have you seen the man's watch? What in hell's name is that thing? Nice enough chap but personally, I think a man should wear a watch, not the other way round.

While we're on the subject, can anyone identify DC or the New Boy's timepieces?

PS If Edie Jordan is a regular poster here, I'm joking of course, it looks just great on you


----------



## Alexm

schumi is 40. how wud his body cope with the g forces and physical strain on the body every other week?


----------



## tomshep

Very well indeed, young man and don't ever doubt it.

Jack Brabham won the world championship when he was a youngster of 40

Farina was 43

Fangio didn't even drive a Grand Prix car until he was 40 and won the championship for the last of his five times at 46

Nigel Mansell was 39 and Schumacher is fitter than Nigel ever was. Prost won it at 38 and Graham Hill was only a few months off his 40th.

Think again.


----------



## jeffvader

Kimi Raikkonen with Tommi Makinen's ex co driver Kaj Lindstrom confirmed for Red Bull Citroen next year, doing 12 of the 13 races.


----------



## jeffvader

17 year deal for Silverstone, so the British GP is safe!!


----------



## jasonm

Woo Hoo!!

17 years!!! I would like to see the clauses in that deal!


----------



## Robert

I'll bet F1 doesn't even exist in 17 years.


----------



## tomshep

Damon must have told Bernie that Bette still has the negs!


----------



## jasonm

So, will Button win SPOTY tonight?


----------



## jasonm

No, he didnt.....

Some Welshman did....


----------



## tixntox

.............and he didn't have an acceptance speech prepared!


----------



## jasonm

I expect that was his prepared speech, Mr Charisma he isnt......


----------



## jasonm

> Formula 1â€™s scoring system is to be overhauled to award points to the top 10 finishers in each grand prix from next season.
> 
> The change â€" prompted by the expanded grid of 13 teams that will participate in the 2010 world championship â€" was agreed at Thursdayâ€™s meeting of the Formula 1 Commission, a body which comprises key stakeholders from F1 teams, promoters, suppliers and sponsors, and subsequently ratified at a World Motor Sport Council meeting in Monaco on Friday.
> 
> The new scoring system will award 25 points to the winner of a GP, 20 points to the second place finisher, 15 for third, 10 for fourth, 8 for fifth, 6 for sixth, 5 for seventh, 3 for eighth, 2 for ninth and a single point for 10th place.
> 
> Although Bernie Ecclestone and others have argued that there needs to be a greater reward for winning in F1, the revised points system maintains the existing relative differential between the top three finishers (25-20-15 being equivalent to 10-8-6), while increasing the gap between third and the non-podium places.
> 
> The shake-up of the points system is the first since the 2003 season when, in the wake of Michael Schumacher clinching the world title in record time the previous year, the points gap between first and second place was decreased from four to two and points given to the top eight finishers in a race.
> 
> The Commission also gave a â€œstrong mandateâ€ to the Sporting Working Group to develop detailed proposals to improve the F1 show, to take effect from next season.
> 
> It also proposed a number of other amendments to the sporting and technical regulations, as yet unspecified, which were put to the WMSC on Friday.


----------



## Agent orange

Bring it on :yes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8412828.stm

Looks like 2010 could be an absolute cracking season.

Cheers,

Gary


----------



## jasonm

I hope so....

I would love Shumie to come back with Mercedes , I cant see it happening though, I think its a pre-season 'get them excited' rumour...


----------



## Agent orange

I'm not so sure Jase, I think this rumour has been going to long and gathered too much momentum since EJ first hinted at it back in November. According to insiders the deal has already been done and MS's neck has made a full recovery since his bike accident. Plus if it was a pre-season 'get them excited' rouse I think it's been released far too soon with 3 months to go. As you can probably tell I dearly want this happen  .

Cheers,

Gary


----------



## jasonm

Me too!


----------



## jasonm

A very important poll...

You need to do this.....


----------



## BondandBigM

I didn't do the survey I was to distracted


----------



## PhilM

I'm with Bond on this, sod the survey :naughty:

Edit: Some of those on there are just plain filth :skirt:


----------



## SharkBike

Not F1, but...

NASCAR's Jimmie Johnson is AP's top male athlete of '09

"I've looked at other sports, particularly baseball, and I've seen plenty of out-of-shape, fat players," said Johnson, who counts among his close friends former NFL player Jason Sehorn, and MLB players Brian and Marcus Giles.

"So to anyone who wants to go head-to-head with me in athletic ability, let's go. I talked a lot with Jason Sehorn about this, and I don't know how exactly you measure athletic ability, but I know my 5-mile run time will destroy most NFL players."

:clap:


----------



## jasonm

Another street race!!

Cool!



> The Italian capital Rome is set to stage a Formula 1 race from 2012, Bernie Ecclestone has confirmed, after the historic city signed a seven-year deal to become the countryâ€™s second venue on the calendar.
> 
> The possibility of staging grand prix in Rome was first floated by former Formula 2 driver and world superbike promoter Maurizio Flammini in January, with any event to be run on streets around the outskirts of the city.


----------



## jeffvader

jasonm said:


> Another street race!!
> 
> Cool!


So bye bye Monza, hello to a slow boring safe street race like Valencia


----------



## Londondecca

The BBC are saying Schumacher has been signed a contract http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8427552.stm


----------



## jasonm

Yep! Shuie is confirmed at Mercedes!

Wahhooooooo!


----------



## PhilM

About time too, the German papers were already saying this last Monday :thumbup:


----------



## pg tips

Great news, now we have a whole team of Krauts to hate :clap:


----------



## scottswatches

Bring on 2010. Team Bratwurst Vs Alonso at Ferrari Vs the Pride of England at MacLaren. And Lotus are back!


----------



## pg tips

and Cossy engines in nearly half the grid! should be fun!


----------



## jeffvader

Pedro de la Rosa to race for BMW Sauber F1 Team: http://wp.me/pIIU2-1z


----------



## jeffvader

The prototype of MP4-25 wing mirror.


----------



## jeffvader

Some guys have all the luck

RBR driving on ice






Rossi's test & he's been pretty quick.


----------



## jeffvader

Alonso in a Ferrari in the new "Santander" livery


----------



## Rotundus

has anyone been to spa ?

a bunch of my neighbours are planning a trip to the belgian race in 2011.

3 couples so beer and choccy for the gals, quals and race for the boys.

we are thinking of silver 2 tickets. three nights staying in brussels with transfers.

we looked into the self drive and couldnâ€™t beat the package rates only disadvantage is not being able to load up on duty free on the way back.

any thoughts? helpful hints? experiences?

just asan after thought we did also think of going camping at silverstone this year, how bad is it for viewing the race there? have heard bad things.


----------



## jeffvader

MS's first run in the Merc & is comparable to Nico


----------



## jasonm

:clap:

Good lad.....Im hoping for great things this season :toot:


----------



## jeffvader

Should be interesting & the cars certainly are.

Some interesting designs ideas, especially with the shark fins & rear wings.


----------



## BondandBigM

Maybe he should have stayed where he was



> *Valencia day one - Massa dominates morning for Ferrari*


 

It will be an interesting season.


----------



## jeffvader

BondandBigM said:


> *Valencia day one - Massa dominates morning for Ferrari*
Click to expand...

MS didn't run this morning, also fuel weights aren't known.

Very detailed work from McLaren

http://twitpic.com/10vgv8/full


----------



## BondandBigM

jeffvader said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Valencia day one - Massa dominates morning for Ferrari*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> MS didn't run this morning, also fuel weights aren't known.
> 
> Very detailed work from McLaren
> 
> http://twitpic.com/10vgv8/full
Click to expand...

Sure but the other one did and was third, he'll have his work cut out for him, I don't believe you can jump back into an F1 car after the time he has had off and be on the ball first day out. We'll see, like I said it will be interesting to see how he does.

I'll still be taking a look at Ferrari anyway, I like red cars


----------



## BondandBigM

> *1655: Right, that's it. *
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> Day one of F1 pre-season testing is over - only 14 more before the first race in Bahrain on 14 March. Thanks for listening. BBC Sport's Sarah Holt on Twitter: *
> 
> *
> Final times: *
> 
> *
> Massa - 1:12.574, *
> 
> *
> De la Rosa - 1:12.784, *
> 
> *
> Schumacher 1:12.947, *
> 
> *
> Rosberg - 1:13.543, *
> 
> *
> Paffett - 1:13.846, *
> 
> *
> Barrichello - 1:14.449*












What's the story will fuel this season, given there is no refuelling during the race do they have to test with a full tank. ????


----------



## jeffvader

They don't have to test on full tanks, so that's why the times don't matter. Some teams run light & some run heavy, depends on what data they are looking for or if it's a glory run.

Some video from today


----------



## jasonm

2 weeks to go and a couple of the new teams havent tested yet and may not make it to the grid!


----------



## Agent orange

Now that's what I call deadline surfing! Hope they make it to the grid come the 14th. Can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to this season :to_become_senile:

Cheers,

Gary


----------



## minkle

Cant wait, debating whether to go and watch the German GP at Williams on my birthday.. :search:


----------



## scottswatches

18 days and counting....

I haven't read this thread before, but i look forward to contributing through the season. 15 years ago i was a mechanic for the Williams team on the BTCC and having lived racing for a few years i lost all the excitment of the spectator, and started getting too technical - i honestly could predict who would win the race based ont he weather. Now i am back and have been following F1 for 10 years only missing one race. and Lotus are back this year! However slow they are, they have my underdog support.

Predictions? Lewis will out qualify Jenson 90% of the time, but Jenson's smooth driving will pay off on full tanks and he will do OK. The best car will win the championship.


----------



## jasonm

Poor old Stirling Moss!

Sounds horrible, get well soon Stirling...

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=47892


----------



## Crouchy

Have to say, I love the way the McLarens look, but think they should have gone back to Orange now Mercedes have works silver arrows. Should be a good season though, and I think Schumi has made a mistake coming back. Always leave them wanting more.


----------



## Robert

Driver Championship predictions. I'll go for

1. Alonso

2. Vettel

3. Hamilton

4. Massa

5. Rosberg

Here's the William Hill odds

Fernando Alonso 11/4

Lewis Hamilton 7/2

Sebastian Vettel 4/1

Michael Schumacher 9/2

Felipe Massa 8/1

Jenson Button 10/1

Mark Webber 14/1

Nico Rosberg 20/1

Robert Kubica 40/1

Kamui Kobayashi 40/1

Rubens Barrichello 66/1

Nico Hulkenberg 80/1

Adrian Sutil 100/1

Pedro de la Rosa 100/1

Heikki Kovalainen 150/1

Jarno Trulli 200/1

Timo Glock 200/1

Bruno Senna 200/1

Vitantonio Liuzzi 200/1

Vitaly Petrov 200/1

Sebastien Buemi 250/1

Karun Chandhok 500/1

Jamie Alguersuari 500/1

Lucas di Grassi 500/1


----------



## pg tips

rubens has got to be worth a punt at 66's I fancy Wiliams as the dark horses this year


----------



## BondandBigM

If the car is right for him and it looks like it Alonso and as a side bet I'll have a punt on Vettel.

And I haven't forgot about the donkey from last year........... watch this space in a couple of months, I will pay up :lol:


----------



## jasonm

BondandBigM said:


> If the car is right for him and it looks like it Alonso and as a side bet I'll have a punt on Vettel.
> 
> And I haven't forgot about the donkey from last year........... watch this space in a couple of months, I will pay up :lol:


 :notworthy:


----------



## scottswatches

i've just spent a grand (that is an Ogema seamaster in this forum's currency) upgrading my TV, settop box and adding Freesat to get HD for the F1 and the World Cup this year, and the BBC aren't showing the first race in HD! The football looks great though...

Miffed from Melton


----------



## BondandBigM

scottswatches said:


> *i've just spent a grand* (that is an Ogema seamaster in this forum's currency) upgrading my TV, settop box and adding Freesat to get HD for the F1 and the World Cup this year, and the BBC aren't showing the first race in HD! The football looks great though...
> 
> Miffed from Melton


 

Cheaper to go down the pub and watch it


----------



## scottswatches

BondandBigM said:


> scottswatches said:
> 
> 
> 
> *i've just spent a grand* (that is an Ogema seamaster in this forum's currency) upgrading my TV, settop box and adding Freesat to get HD for the F1 and the World Cup this year, and the BBC aren't showing the first race in HD! The football looks great though...
> 
> Miffed from Melton
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheaper to go down the pub and watch it
Click to expand...

Granted, but I am very lazy....

16 hours until first practice, still not in HD but at least on the red button


----------



## pg tips

Nearly 6 years since I started this thread and here we go again!


----------



## jeffvader

scottswatches said:


> i've just spent a grand (that is an Ogema seamaster in this forum's currency) upgrading my TV, settop box and adding Freesat to get HD for the F1 and the World Cup this year, and the BBC aren't showing the first race in HD! The football looks great though...
> 
> Miffed from Melton


The BBC can't show F1 in HD as it isn't shot in HD. Bernie said there isn't enough interest for FOM to spend the money on broadcasting in HD.


----------



## JoT

Can somebody explain what the hell is going on? :huh:


----------



## pg tips

cars drive round in circles 1st session fastest 20 got through to 2nd session, then top 10 go through to last session.


----------



## JoT

pg tips said:


> cars drive round in circles 1st session fastest 20 got through to 2nd session, then top 10 go through to last session.


Ah, so they have simplified it then?


----------



## BondandBigM

I see Button is heading back towards mid table donkey already


----------



## JoT

Bring back the ITV coverage PLEASE!!!!!


----------



## rhaythorne

What? With adverts and James Allen! Â You must be kidding.


----------



## JoT

rhaythorne said:


> What? With adverts and James Allen! Â You must be kidding.


No .... it's like watching CBBC now  at least ITV was grown-up


----------



## rhaythorne

How do you know what CBBC is like? Â Are you a regular viewer? 

I do know what you mean, but it took ITV years to hone their presentation and no doubt the BBC folk will have a similar learning curve to negotiate.


----------



## pg tips

bloody DC and EJ playing stupid sniping games with each other and "childrens tv" Jake is still way out of his depth, nice watch he's wearing this season though, anyone ID it?


----------



## Impster

Currently on lap 14. V. Petrov just pitted. Around 5 secs for the stop.

Anyway, is it just me, or is it a bit on the 'boring' side so far?

Don't get me wrong - I'm a big motorsports fan - but it doesn't seem to be as exciting as I'd hoped with all the rule changes.

Anyway, I'll stick with it...

Impster


----------



## BondandBigM

Go Alonso


----------



## BondandBigM

Michael who ???? :lol: :lol:


----------



## rhaythorne

Schumacher did pretty well I thought. Â But a Ferrari 1-2 works for me 

Lotus, Virgin and HRT did about as well as could be expected on their first outing.Â Sauber were a big disappointment.

Too early to judge the relative performance of the other top teams I think. Â The first race is always something of a lottery.Â


----------



## SEIKO7A38

rhaythorne said:


> Schumacher did pretty well I thought. Â But a Ferrari 1-2 works for me


:yahoo: :clap: *C'Mon You Reds !!* :yahoo: :clap:


----------



## Rotundus

delighted to see the excellent bbc f1 coverage continues, esp. as we have had to cancel trips to both the british and belgian races this year.

 recession :furious:

ok sarcasm aside i quite like brundel's commentry. lots to fast forward through otherwise.


----------



## JoT

OK F1 fans please tell me why this season's rules are an improvement? At least last year we had pit-stop drama!!


----------



## jeffvader

JoT said:


> OK F1 fans please tell me why this season's rules are an improvement? At least last year we had pit-stop drama!!


So far I'd say it hasn't, as the tyres are lasting too long. From what Martin Whitmarsh, in his BBC interview, said the McLaren super soft tyres could have lasted for 25+ laps & with the medium lasting half race distance there wasn't enough reason to do multiple stops. The teams are too close in performance terms to give any meaningful overtaking & the lack of refuelling means there isn't any great weight differences in the cars.

To be honest I struggled to watch today and it was glad of the Twitter feeds so I had something to read while watching the race.


----------



## rhaythorne

The pit stops were exciting I thought. Â It's now about how fast you can change the wheels and the pit crews get the opportunity to show just how slickly (pun ) they can operate. Â One tiny mistake can cost them a place or even the race.

The enforced re-fueling rule was always ridiculous in my opinion. Â The cars were always capable of running the race on a full tank of gas so why add all the complexity and danger of having to try and refuel a hot F1 car in an open pit lane? Â As you've just seen, it's more interesting to see what more efficient cars can do by being able to run lighter with less fuel than thirstier cars with a heavier load of petrol.

Now, if they'd just get rid of the other silly rule which forces teams to have to run the wrong tyres we can get back to proper racing. Â Remember the "old days" when someone would run soft, sticky tyres but have to pit three or four times whilst others would forego pit stops and attempt to run the whole race on one set of hard tyres?Â But maybe it is true that even the softer tyres are now too good these days and last too long to make much of a difference.


----------



## scottswatches

Well now I know why Bernie didn't show it in HD - there wasn't a lot to see!

Bring back refuelling to at least keep the audience interested. I am the biggest F1 fan (i even sat through the Indy race with four cars) but it was at best perfunctary today. Vettel was a star, but didn't have much to do. The best result was for Lotus today, but i am bias on that score!


----------



## Impster

Somehow I don't see why it wasn't more exciting? It should have been harking back to the pre-refuelling days, but somehow it wasn't.

Maybe the drivers and teams are just getting used to the new 'feel' of it all.

Impster


----------



## jasonm

I havent bloody seen it yet...... :taz:

How dare she have a birthday this weekend and want a weekend away :bag:

I had to phone Phil at 12.00 to get a first lap commentary


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> I havent bloody seen it yet...... :taz:
> 
> How dare she have a birthday this weekend and want a weekend away :bag:
> 
> I had to phone Phil at 12.00 to get a first lap commentary


You were better off with the 710 ... it was dull as ditchwater


----------



## Chukas

Looks like a long boring season ahead!!

Bring back re-fuelling,so teams start using strategies to gain a couple of places + you get all the pit stop drama :yes:


----------



## Impster

I think (lol - hope!) that the first race was just a bad one-off as the teams 'learn' their way through the new rules. Interesting to see a few cars run out of fuel as expected.

Problem is that the teams at this early stage of the season are so far apart. Once they get a bit 'closer-matched' we could be in for some wheel to wheel action. Let's hope so.

Impster


----------



## jeffvader

A Blue German Parrot


----------



## hilly10

If this weeks race ends up being the same procession as the last one they will have to do some think


----------



## PhilM

hilly10 said:


> If this weeks race ends up being the same procession as the last one they will have to do some think


Well thankfully it wasn't, the last 10 laps was great especially watching Hamilton and Webber


----------



## scottswatches

All the talk about the regulations was premature. All we needed was some weather. They should switch the Abu Dhabi race to Ireland, and Bahrain should be dumped for Manchester!

Although the tyres need looking at? how can the drivers do 50 laps on 'soft' tyres? They shouldn't last more than half race distance but give a noticable advantage. I'm beginning to think the only difference between soft and hard tyres is a green stripe, which is ruining the stratergies


----------



## jeffvader

With the upside down grid, tomorrow's race should be interesting.

Schumi at work


----------



## jasonm

Thats a great photo!

Looking forward to this one...


----------



## Odo

Yep, coffee and half eaten Easter egg at the ready, should be interesting, rain or no rain...


----------



## jasonm

I really enjoyed the race this morning...

Hamilton had a cracking race....


----------



## jeffvader

Yes was interesting. Great drive from Lewis & well done to Sutil too. Nice to see both HRT's finishing too.


----------



## Philz

Great race the weather held out otherwise it would have been a lot more interesting. Just got my tickets for Silverstone 3 days Yipeee!!!! I think Vettel could have the title this year if the reliability holds out.


----------



## jeffvader

Bloody lucky

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8624276.stm


----------



## thunderbolt

jeffvader said:


> Bloody lucky
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8624276.stm


Looks to me as though his suspension collapsed. A very lucky chap. I bet the cameraman had to change his underwear after that.


----------



## jasonm

Incredible!


----------



## jeffvader

Torro Rosso say it was a problem with the right hand upright. Seems funny the left one exploded at the same time.

I'm sure the cameraman needed a change, so I'm sure did the spectators as the wheels bounced over the catch fence.


----------



## BondandBigM

Looks to me like the brakes seized, at that sort of speed and with the forces involved just ripped both the wheels off. The rears looked locked up as well. Lucky boy.


----------



## jasonm

I loved his optomistic steering all the way through..


----------



## jeffvader

A bit more information

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/china-toro-rosso-upright-failure/


----------



## pg tips

by **** those red bull guys know how to nail the quallies!


----------



## pg tips

bloody brilliant drive boys!


----------



## jasonm

Yep, good drive....


----------



## thunderbolt

Well done Jensen and Lewis. Great race. :thumbsup:


----------



## Sancho Panza

A great race. Only three weeks till the first European race. I think it's going to get really interesting now, especially Monaco.


----------



## gaz64

Was it really worth Michael Schummacher turning up? Maybe he should have stayed in retirement


----------



## Sancho Panza

gaz64 said:


> Was it really worth Michael Schummacher turning up? Maybe he should have stayed in retirement


I think he adds interest to the race. Hopefully they can improve the setup of his car so he's nearer the front of the pack.


----------



## Impster

Great race this morning. Button - right on 'it' (the button).

Hamilton right up there as well with a great drive - albeit a 'supporting drive' for today.

Well done lads.


----------



## pg tips

1st corner order same as the grid positions, race over


----------



## BondandBigM

Impster said:


> Great race this morning. Button - right on 'it' (the button).
> 
> Hamilton right up there as well with a great drive - albeit a 'supporting drive' for today.
> 
> Well done lads.


What was well done about *5th* and *Crashed* :lol:


----------



## jeffvader

BondandBigM said:


> Impster said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great race this morning. Button - right on 'it' (the button).
> 
> Hamilton right up there as well with a great drive - albeit a 'supporting drive' for today.
> 
> Well done lads.
> 
> 
> 
> What was well done about *5th* and *Crashed* :lol:
Click to expand...

Check the date of Impster's post, he was talking about the 1-2


----------



## BondandBigM

jeffvader said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Impster said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great race this morning. Button - right on 'it' (the button).
> 
> Hamilton right up there as well with a great drive - albeit a 'supporting drive' for today.
> 
> Well done lads.
> 
> 
> 
> What was well done about *5th* and *Crashed* :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Check the date of Impster's post, he was talking about the 1-2
Click to expand...

Never notice that bit

:lol: :lol:


----------



## 613

Red Bull really are running away with it.

Gutted for Hamilton, disappointed with Button's inability to get past Schumacher. Although his dash was broke, so its hardly his fault!

Is Michael Schumacher beginning to answer his critics with the new upgrades his car has got?

I've truly got into the F1 this season, and its a pretty good spectator sport, especially with iPlayer coverage! 

David


----------



## Sancho Panza

Monaco is going to be interesting with 24 cars.

If anyone gets behind Schumacher here they're done for.


----------



## scottswatches

Monaco will ensure that qualifying is more exciting than the race, as usual.

BUT don't forget - Qualifying is on Friday at Monaco so make sure you are 'working from home' on that day!


----------



## Sancho Panza

scottswatches said:


> BUT don't forget - Qualifying is on Friday at Monaco so make sure you are 'working from home' on that day!


Eh, no it's not. Practice 1 & 2 are on Thursday, Friday is a rest day, Saturday is practice 3 followed by qualifying and of course the race on Sunday.


----------



## PhilM

Pretty lively afternoon really... well done to Webber for a full on weekend :thumbsup:

Also nice move from Schumacher on Alonso on the last lap :lol:

BTW Button, stop moaning and start racing again... :dummyspit:


----------



## jasonm

I cant believe this topic has slipped...

Time for a update....

I went with a pal today and had the usual noisy , confusing, eat garbage and pay silly money for everything experience..... 

Good fun though....

Red arrows were awesome and I had forgotten how good the sound of a F1 in full flow is...

Well done Webber on the win and for Jensen to come from 14th to 4th was a great drive....


----------



## pg tips

No mention of the donkeys then jase :lol:

The new silverstone looks fantastic though Button was stil complaining you can't overtake


----------



## Defender

jasonm said:


> I cant believe this topic has slipped...
> 
> Time for a update....
> 
> I went with a pal today and had the usual noisy , confusing, eat garbage and pay silly money for everything experience.....
> 
> Good fun though....
> 
> Red arrows were awesome and I had forgotten how good the sound of a F1 in full flow is...
> 
> Well done Webber on the win and for Jensen to come from 14th to 4th was a great drive....


Hi Jason,

Sounds like you had a great day and got the full F1 experience there, I watched it on the TV, not the 'Red Bull white wash' that was predicted by some, had real racing to watch again :to_become_senile:?

I've never been to a British GP although I have been to a British F1 race? Attended the first F1 GP at Indy, it was back in the V10 engine days, much cheaper than Silverstone!

Best regards,

Ivon :astro:.


----------



## phil hill

Never been to Silverston for the F1,ut went to the first one at Valencia - exciting to be there but pretty boring race.


----------



## jasonm

Im a Schumacher fan, but that move on Rubens at the race at Hungary today was flippin mental!!!!! I think Rubens actually shat himself....


----------



## langtoftlad

He was not impressed :lookaround:

I think Brundle had it right - Schumacher won't accept when he's beat, even if it means taking another driver out.

And that move could have taken Barrichello out... permanently.

IMHO Schuey should be 'encouraged' to retire again - or banned if he refuses.

Racing yes, killing drivers no.


----------



## rhaythorne

Ya know, I've looked at that footage several times now and I think my first impression (formed minutes after the actual occurrence) is still correct.

Schumacher's move on Barrichello was very, very hard; too hard in fact, as subsequently admitted by Schumacher, and probably worthy of some form of rebuke, although not a ten-place grid drop at the next race 

But, I really don't think it's quite as bad as some people are suggesting. Schumacher knew exactly what he was doing (you can see him sizing-up the situation in his mirror); Barrichello also knew what Schumacher was doing. And Schumacher knew that he knew!

You just saw two of the most experienced racing drivers really racing. Yes! Racing! Remember that? That's what all the newbie F1 fans keep bleating about isn't it? Well, that's what they just saw. Schumacher held Barichello right against the wall (he didn't push him into it) until the very last possible moment and then cut left to allow him back onto the track.

That's called RACING!


----------



## Defender

Heard on the radio (5 Live), from Derick Warwick that the only thing that stopped Schumacher from being disqualified was that there were so few laps remaining, he also said that they, the stewards, also weren't impressed with him in the interview afterwards.

I hope he's learned his leason, but history says probably not!

ATB,

Defender :astro:.


----------



## jasonm

rhaythorne said:


> Ya know, I've looked at that footage several times now and I think my first impression (formed minutes after the actual occurrence) is still correct.
> 
> Schumacher's move on Barrichello was very, very hard; too hard in fact, as subsequently admitted by Schumacher, and probably worthy of some form of rebuke, although not a ten-place grid drop at the next race
> 
> But, I really don't think it's quite as bad as some people are suggesting. Schumacher knew exactly what he was doing (you can see him sizing-up the situation in his mirror); Barrichello also knew what Schumacher was doing. And Schumacher knew that he knew!
> 
> You just saw two of the most experienced racing drivers really racing. Yes! Racing! Remember that? That's what all the newbie F1 fans keep bleating about isn't it? Well, that's what they just saw. Schumacher held Barichello right against the wall (he didn't push him into it) until the very last possible moment and then cut left to allow him back onto the track.
> 
> That's called RACING!


You make some good points actually Rich, I think no one has seen a scrap like that in many years and have forgotton that it used to be like that most Sundays  Senna was a right bastard for putting the squeeze on....


----------



## Defender

jasonm said:


> You make some good points actually Rich, I think no one has seen a scrap like that in many years and have forgotton that it used to be like that most Sundays  Senna was a right ******* for putting the squeeze on....


Yes, Senna was a right b.., but he wouldn't get away with it now, ironicly because of the far safer F1 environment that followed his death!

I want to see skillful driving, not 'stock car' driving tactics, if you're that good you don't need to do that?

Schumacher closed the door far too late, it was a diliberate act and there's no justifyable defence and we've seen him do it too many times before, if he can't drive properly then he should pack up now.

I have to say that I prefer WRC, the drivers are far more skilled, make one mistake and you're in serious trouble.

ATB.

Defender :astro:.


----------



## Phillionaire

WRC is cool, some seriously skilled driving there. A big rally held in nth nsw last year (murwillumbah) was ruined by tree hugging greenies pushing big boulders out onto the track because apparently the cars racing around endangered the local kangaroos! Never mind the poor bl00dy drivers at all!

HIPPIES! GET A JOB!

Also give a big :thumbsup: to the FIA GT cup. Porsches, lambos, ferraris, a DB9 (my fave) and others hooting around


----------



## Guest

Phillionaire said:


> HIPPIES! GET A JOB!


----------



## pg tips

Senna was different imho, he'd leave the smallest of gaps and invite the guy behind him to go for it, closing down the gap at the same time, they knew the game. If someone dared go for it and bottled it Senna had him, mentally he'd beat him, not many went for it.

What Shumi was doing was deliberatly forcing Rubens into a wall at 170 MPH, racing maybe but certainly too dangerous to be brushed off as a racing incident.


----------



## jasonm

> What Shumi was doing was deliberatly forcing Rubens into a wall at 170 MPH, racing maybe but certainly too dangerous to be brushed off as a racing incident.


Not quite  He forced him towards the wall, not into it.... Rubens could have backed off :box:


----------



## pg tips

:lol: I bet he crapped himself!

The difference is 20 years.

Today they play by different (safer?) rules and Shumicheatmaker knows full well you cannot close gaps down like they (including him) did in "the good old days"

Still it was fun and makes for good watching, until someone gets killed! Perhaps that's the real reason we all watch?


----------



## mrteatime

thats normal driving in london anyway........


----------



## rhaythorne

jasonm said:



> Rubens could have backed off


Precisely! Â But he didn't and kept his boot in all the way. Â Fantastic stuff. Â I certainly winced while this was going on, especially as they crossed the pit lane exit but, in the end, Rubens won the position and there wasn't an accident. Â Obviously this is all conjecture, but I think if Rubens had hit the wall his accident wouldn't have been that bad. Â He'd have slid along the wall and come to rest on the grass beyond the pit lane exit a bit like they do in IndyCar/Nascar. Â If he'd rebounded slightly and hit Schumacher, Schumacher's accident would have been rather more "interesting" for him I think!

Anyway, we have a few weeks off now with little more than the flexi-front-wing issue to think about.

mrteatime said:



> thats normal driving in london anyway........


Too right!Â


----------



## BondandBigM

Can he pull it off with 4 races to go.


----------



## jasonm

Yep!!!

Not a bad race, its good to see the cars on such a manic twitchy narrow circuit .........

Its going to be a interesting last few races....


----------



## PhilM

One of the best races so far this season, not loads of overtaking but plenty of drama :yes:


----------



## BondandBigM

jasonm said:


> its good to see the cars on such a manic twitchy narrow circuit .........


Been round it a few times, not as fast though. We were in a 4x4 Lexus and Big M shouts at me if I take to many chances. And there was lot's of traffic in the way most days.










:lol: :lol:


----------



## citizenhell

Question;

If the current positions were reversed & Vettel had a 20 odd point gap over Webber, who thinks Red Bull would already be operating team orders & insisting Webber yield to Vettel in the remaining races? Interesting problem for Horner as his fave is lagging behind the #2 driver & I suspect he won't want to impose that situation on the driver he sees as the future of the team.

Just a thought as the danger is that they take points of each other & let Alonso through the middle to snatch the title.

Looks like Button & Hamilton have gone now - no pace at the moment & no plan B from Lewis to just keep scoring points in the hope that the others trip themselves up.


----------



## jasonm

citizenhell said:


> Question;
> 
> If the current positions were reversed & Vettel had a 20 odd point gap over Webber, who thinks Red Bull would already be operating team orders & insisting Webber yield to Vettel in the remaining races? Interesting problem for Horner as his fave is lagging behind the #2 driver & I suspect he won't want to impose that situation on the driver he sees as the future of the team.
> 
> Just a thought as the danger is that they take points of each other & let Alonso through the middle to snatch the title.
> 
> Looks like Button & Hamilton have gone now - no pace at the moment & no plan B from Lewis to just keep scoring points in the hope that the others trip themselves up.


It is very interesting how its going to pan out, I think Webber would flat out refuse to vield if anyone told him to, even if positions were reversed, this is going to be the best chance of his career to win the big one, but part of me would love Alonso to steam to the front too


----------



## sam.

I love F1,i've only missed watching a couple of races since i was 22,and i'm 40 in November.

Alonzo has done really well in the last 2 races,and has risen to second place,he really seems to have the wind behind him.

Such bad luck for Lewis with 2 non finishes in a row, he threw his steering wheel out of the car in anger and frustration at the last race,i hope things improve for him.

Jenson's been nice and steady clawing points back from his team mate,but he has still slipped down to 5th in the championship,i would really like him to win this year,but i wouldn't mind Lewis or Mark either.

I really really really want Mark to beat Vettel,he's been fantastic,that crash he had a few races back looked terrible,but he walked away unharmed,thinking back at the history of the sport,its amazing just how far safety has come,thanks to the likes of Jackie Stewart etc.


----------



## pg tips

Probably the funniest 2 things I've seen all season, the wannabe world champs, Mark Webber, showing his mastery of wet driving by losing it on a completely innocuous corner and the sparks underneath Vettle's car as his bigends and engine casing made contact with the tarmac! :notworthy:

Well worth the wait, coupled with Sutil's unbelievable antics made a very entertaining race, pity Hamilton couldn't keep it on the track when it counted! Looks like it's gonna go all the way!


----------



## Andy Tims

Can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually feel sorry for Vettel. He drove really well & was pretty gracious in the interviews afterwards.


----------



## BondandBigM

*1..........Fernando Alonso..........Spa..........Ferrari..........231*

B)


----------



## pg tips

Has Webber just blown it? Looks good for fernando now!


----------



## tixntox

Apart from the fact that he is in a Red Bull sandwich!


----------



## jasonm

Its going to be a cracking race...Cant wait!

I would love Webber to win the championship, if not him then Alonso....


----------



## jasonm

Booooooooo............ :thumbsdown:


----------



## Rotundus

jasonm said:


> Booooooooo............ :thumbsdown:


well at least someone smashed into shoomakker, that was entertaining :huh:


----------



## martinzx

Was unhappy for Webber, but was glad Alonso did not win...............









BR Martin


----------



## pg tips

jasonm said:


> Booooooooo............ :thumbsdown:


:thumbup: :toot:



martinzx said:


> Was unhappy for Webber, but was glad Alonso did not win...............


Absobloodylutely!


----------



## sam.

Fantastic track for overtaking.....not,it was a bit boring with Vettel being allowed to escape,Mark had a bad day at the office,and Ferrari getting their strategy wrong.Jenson and Lewis did well,but unfortunately not well enough for Lewis to take the title.

Well,

at least we have five world champions for next season,and that's never happened before.


----------



## grey

pg tips said:


> [
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> martinzx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was unhappy for Webber, but was glad Alonso did not win...............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absobloodylutely!
Click to expand...

By the time it gets to 'meet the media' time after the race, his PR people seem to have got Alonso into saying the right things, but it's his radio transmissions and his fist-waving at the Russian that give him away and show what a mardy little sod he really is.









ps 'mardy' - northern term for which there is no exact translation, but describes the self-centred emotional behaviour of soft, over-indulged (southern) children concisely.


----------



## citizenhell

Anyone but Alonso. 

Mardy = :dummyspit: Good description of him :thumbsup:


----------



## pg tips

citizenhell said:


> Anyone but Alonso.
> 
> Mardy = :dummyspit: Good description of him :thumbsup:


could just of easily called him Spanish h34r:


----------



## grey

citizenhell said:


> Anyone but Alonso.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mardy =
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good description of him










Wow! A 'mardy' emoticon. Whatever next?


----------



## Andy Tims

All I'm going to say is well done Petrov


----------



## Andy Tims

Perhaps that wasn't all I had to say.

How can Webber race for Red Bull next year after all his very public critisism of them?


----------



## PhilM

750Bhp from a 1.6 engine.... hope it continues into personal cars too 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9255871.stm


----------



## jasonm

I just cant understand why they keep messing with it all so much, the big idea in the last few years was to cut costs, why introduce a brand new engine spec? the tool up costs will be huge!



> eading figures in F1 hope that the adoption of the new rules will insulate the sport from charges of wastefulness at a time when supplies of fossil fuels are diminishing and there is pressure for the world to cut its production of greenhouse gases.


Thats a laugh, considering the mahoosive logistical exercise of transporting 12 teams with 100+ team members + sponsors and hangers on each to 20 races in a year not counting spectator travel etc, the emissions from the cars themselves is tiny.


----------



## PhilM

Sadly things like this is all about PR though, they can look smug and say that they have reduced the engine size to reduce the emissions... which we all know is bollocks.


----------



## Rotundus

they'll want indicators on next to encourage merc drivers to use 'em


----------



## pg tips

5 weeks to go til the season starts, if you were adriver would you be taking it easy, training and trying to stay fit and healthy, or would you be driving in a rally?

Feel sorry for him but what was Robert Kubica thinking?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9389513.stm

get well soon mate, Renault will be gutted


----------



## Uber-Man

*Just wondering what peoples thoughts for the 1st race of the 2011 F1 Season were? Do you think Vettel can run away with a second title or will McLaren/Ferrari catch them? My driver of the day was Lewis Hamilton as no-one would have backed McLaren to beat a donkey 2 weeks ago!!!*

*
- Uber-Man*


----------



## BroDave

Uber-Man said:


> *Just wondering what peoples thoughts for the 1st race of the 2011 F1 Season were? Do you think Vettel can run away with a second title or will McLaren/Ferrari catch them? My driver of the day was Lewis Hamilton as no-one would have backed McLaren to beat a donkey 2 weeks ago!!!*
> 
> *
> - Uber-Man*


Somewhere between Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso.


----------



## Uber-Man

BroDave said:


> Uber-Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Just wondering what peoples thoughts for the 1st race of the 2011 F1 Season were? Do you think Vettel can run away with a second title or will McLaren/Ferrari catch them? My driver of the day was Lewis Hamilton as no-one would have backed McLaren to beat a donkey 2 weeks ago!!!*
> 
> *
> - Uber-Man*
> 
> 
> 
> Somewhere between Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso.
Click to expand...

*Yeah, I think you may be on the money there. Not sure what happened to Ferrari this weekend, after pre-season testing they were looking like the only real team to pose RB a challenge at the 1st race...*

*
*

*
- Uber-Man*


----------



## BroDave

Uber-Man said:


> BroDave said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uber-Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Just wondering what peoples thoughts for the 1st race of the 2011 F1 Season were? Do you think Vettel can run away with a second title or will McLaren/Ferrari catch them? My driver of the day was Lewis Hamilton as no-one would have backed McLaren to beat a donkey 2 weeks ago!!!*
> 
> *
> - Uber-Man*
> 
> 
> 
> Somewhere between Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Yeah, I think you may be on the money there. Not sure what happened to Ferrari this weekend, after pre-season testing they were looking like the only real team to pose RB a challenge at the 1st race...*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> - Uber-Man*
Click to expand...

Yup, Webber, Massa and Button didn't really shine. Button's less than stellar effort to keep Vettel behind him stuck out for me.


----------



## BondandBigM

Hey guys there has been a long running F1 thread, all 128 pages of it, that you might want to kick off again for this season 

See Here

http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3248&st=0


----------



## amf

I think the first race of this year was WAY more interesting than the first race of last year and look how last year turned out! I think it can only get better!


----------



## pg tips

BondandBigM said:


> Hey guys there has been a long running F1 thread, all 128 pages of it, that you might want to kick off again for this season
> 
> See Here
> 
> http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3248&st=0


Threads merged


----------



## pg tips

Uber-Man said:


> My driver of the day was Lewis Hamilton as no-one would have backed McLaren to beat a donkey 2 weeks ago!!!


yeah and he beat 2 of them :clap:

My driver of the day was Petrov! With all Renault have been thro basically having to re shape the whole team since Kubica's accident 7 weeks ago I think it was an amazing result for them


----------



## 1475lee

Most seasons start off slow, yes the movable wing seems aload of wasted money,the car that won did not run kers but the tyres look good to spice things up?

i see no more seiko for jenson tag from now on baby.........


----------



## Big_bazza99

Must say that Mclaren seem to have pulled out some excellent changes to get the car closer to the Red Bulls - certainly closer than in pre-season. Come on Lewis


----------



## Rotundus

sprinklers on the track - for once i agree with bernie!

prolly not needed today - weather looking dicey!

good to see maclaren in the mix.

being a long time F1 watcher am sorry to see williams not doing better - qually was rubbish.

malodnado looks like he has promise though.

anyone going to silverstone this year?


----------



## new2horology

going to silverstone for the first time this year, Â£125 for the weekend, going to be camping with the boys

anyone else done the camping?

I assume you can take food and drink, as long as the drink is not in glass??

Nick


----------



## citizenhell

Watched my last F1 race for this season - Vettel already looks like the 2011 champion as it will just be a cakewalk to the title. No-one else fast enough or consistent enough to challenge him so it's heading towards a Schumacher style dominance which = boring (non)racing.


----------



## martinzx

citizenhell said:


> Watched my last F1 race for this season - Vettel already looks like the 2011 champion as it will just be a cakewalk to the title. No-one else fast enough or consistent enough to challenge him so it's heading towards a Schumacher style dominance which = boring (non)racing.


2 races in I disagree Ian, McClaren & Ferrari will be on his heels, he's great at driving from pole to finish but has yet to prove himself, overtaking etc, I still say its well open, IMO of course , but 5/6 is very good!


----------



## jasonm

new2horology said:


> going to silverstone for the first time this year, Â£125 for the weekend, going to be camping with the boys
> 
> anyone else done the camping?
> 
> I assume you can take food and drink, as long as the drink is not in glass??
> 
> Nick


I think you can take what you like.......

Thats going to be a great weekend, Ive been a few times, never camping though..... Have fun..!


----------



## Rotundus

jasonm said:


> new2horology said:
> 
> 
> 
> going to silverstone for the first time this year, Â£125 for the weekend, going to be camping with the boys
> 
> anyone else done the camping?
> 
> I assume you can take food and drink, as long as the drink is not in glass??
> 
> Nick
> 
> 
> 
> I think you can take what you like.......
> 
> Thats going to be a great weekend, Ive been a few times, never camping though..... Have fun..!
Click to expand...

what's the view like with a general admittance ticket?

is it worth stumping up for a seat?


----------



## tixntox

My camping days are over! The last time I camped at Silverstone we were bogged into the field for 2 days! :jawdrop:


----------



## 1475lee

martinzx said:


> citizenhell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watched my last F1 race for this season - Vettel already looks like the 2011 champion as it will just be a cakewalk to the title. No-one else fast enough or consistent enough to challenge him so it's heading towards a Schumacher style dominance which = boring (non)racing.
> 
> 
> 
> 2 races in I disagree Ian, McClaren & Ferrari will be on his heels, he's great at driving from pole to finish but has yet to prove himself, overtaking etc, I still say its well open, IMO of course , but 5/6 is very good!
Click to expand...

even if vettel walks the championship there will still be some great racing this year well worth watching..


----------



## new2horology

1475lee said:


> martinzx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> citizenhell said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watched my last F1 race for this season - Vettel already looks like the 2011 champion as it will just be a cakewalk to the title. No-one else fast enough or consistent enough to challenge him so it's heading towards a Schumacher style dominance which = boring (non)racing.
> 
> 
> 
> 2 races in I disagree Ian, McClaren & Ferrari will be on his heels, he's great at driving from pole to finish but has yet to prove himself, overtaking etc, I still say its well open, IMO of course , but 5/6 is very good!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> even if vettel walks the championship there will still be some great racing this year well worth watching..
Click to expand...

I still think Vettel has got a long way to go yet, he still makes mistakes, last year he drove into his team mate, so hes not Mr. Perfect. His car though, from what we have seen, is. Don't write off the mclarens just yet. IMO

Nick


----------



## new2horology

desmondus rotundus said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> new2horology said:
> 
> 
> 
> going to silverstone for the first time this year, Â£125 for the weekend, going to be camping with the boys
> 
> anyone else done the camping?
> 
> I assume you can take food and drink, as long as the drink is not in glass??
> 
> Nick
> 
> 
> 
> I think you can take what you like.......
> 
> Thats going to be a great weekend, Ive been a few times, never camping though..... Have fun..!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rubbish!! all the camping tickets are sold out!! Oh well!! maybe on the bay someone could be selling one??
> 
> Nick
Click to expand...


----------



## pg tips

**** ME!!! Hamilton took Button! :notworthy:


----------



## Odo

pg tips said:


> **** ME!!! Hamilton took Button! :notworthy:


  

Blimey, that was quite interesting...bet Mark Webber wishes the race was one lap longer, excellent drive.


----------



## pg tips

Did DC just say he is a cunillinguist live on the BBC? :lol:


----------



## 1475lee

That was a great race... fantastic.


----------



## dombox40

Tactical blunder by Red Bull with a two stop strategy and Lewis made them pay come on McClaren. :thumbsup: It,s not all over now.


----------



## jasonm

Just watched the repeat...

I really enjoyed that!

Superb racing and what a drive by Webber......

I enjoyed the commentary too, Brundle has really upped his game in the box ......


----------



## Robert

jasonm said:


> I enjoyed the commentary too, Brundle has really upped his game in the box ......


And more enjoyable with Eddie absent.


----------



## 1475lee

Robert said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> I enjoyed the commentary too, Brundle has really upped his game in the box ......
> 
> 
> 
> And more enjoyable with Eddie absent.
Click to expand...

I think the commentary was great brundle and coultard seem to have fun and sound like a good team.

keep it up,


----------



## 1475lee

Alonso said the ferrari is the best car he has ever driven ha it looks crap to me he should have sayed with renault they have a great car.


----------



## funtimefrankie

Gentleman,

After extensive wind tunnel testing may I present to you the Williams upgrades for Turkey










Come on can't be any worse now can it?

Frank


----------



## new2horology

funtimefrankie said:


> Gentleman,
> 
> After extensive wind tunnel testing may I present to you the Williams upgrades for Turkey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come on can't be any worse now can it?
> 
> Frank


Looks sound! Need to get some sponsors logos on it tho mate?

haha


----------



## tixntox

new2horology said:


> funtimefrankie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gentleman,
> 
> After extensive wind tunnel testing may I present to you the Williams upgrades for Turkey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Come on can't be any worse now can it?
> 
> Frank
> 
> 
> 
> Looks sound! Need to get some sponsors logos on it tho mate?
> 
> haha
Click to expand...

Should do well at the brickyard!

Mike


----------



## JoT

Circuit de Catalunya might be OK for Moto GP but for F1 it makes a dreary competition even worse!


----------



## Big Rick

F1 is crap!! I have been working in motorsport since 1968, F1 since 1985 and have worked for every team on the grid except HRT although we made some carbon parts for them earlier in the year.

Give me moto GP or Superbikes any day of the week. F1 is now getting like the racing in the US was a few years ago, if someone had a good lead they would throw a yellow (debris on the track) although it was hard to see any, bunch the field up and hey prest off they go again. Just the same now with KERS and the rear wing makes it a bit more exciting but so false.


----------



## PhilM

Who said F1 was crap, full of action, some great overtaking and oh a few dings as well


----------



## JoT

PhilM said:


> Who said F1 was crap, full of action, some great overtaking and oh a few dings as well




So we are reduced to an effective 5 lap race ... why didnt they just do five from the start?


----------



## martinzx

Big Rick said:


> F1 is crap!! I have been working in motorsport since 1968, F1 since 1985 and have worked for every team on the grid except HRT although we made some carbon parts for them earlier in the year.
> 
> Give me moto GP or Superbikes any day of the week. F1 is now getting like the racing in the US was a few years ago, if someone had a good lead they would throw a yellow (debris on the track) although it was hard to see any, bunch the field up and hey prest off they go again. Just the same now with KERS and the rear wing makes it a bit more exciting but so false.


So what??

How does kers & rear wings make it false, never heard such *****......................

If you like moto GP or superbikes, start a new thread FFS

I wish someone would cut that Sebs finger off.............


----------



## PhilM

JoT said:


> PhilM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said F1 was crap, full of action, some great overtaking and oh a few dings as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So we are reduced to an effective 5 lap race ... why didnt they just do five from the start?
Click to expand...

Because, that would have been boring


----------



## Robert

Shocking drive from Hamilton. He needs to have a word with himself.


----------



## JoT

Indianapolis 500 on Sky Sports 4


----------



## jasonm

Hamilton showed himself up to be a arrogant spoilt whiney little twat today...


----------



## johnfoxllb

I enjoyed that race, spoiled by the red flag, I fancied a last minute dive through from Alonso


----------



## johnfoxllb

Anyone else think Hamilton might leave McLaren at the end of the season? I think the romance is coming to an end.


----------



## jasonm

I hope so, he will see what its like in the big bad world...


----------



## martinzx

jasonm said:


> Hamilton showed himself up to be a arrogant spoilt whiney little **** today...


He is not as bratty as Alonso 

Fair play not his best performance by any means but still the most exciting driver in F1 & the best at overtaking (excluding 2 on Saturday)


----------



## jasonm

I guess we will have to disagree on that !


----------



## martinzx

jasonm said:


> I guess we will have to disagree on that !


Ok mate :thumbsup:


----------



## Rotundus

this might be of interest

live timing


----------



## jasonm

What a race!!

That was brilliant!!! Jensen was superb, a shame Shumie just missed the podium though......


----------



## minkle

jasonm said:


> What a race!!
> 
> That was brilliant!!! Jensen was superb, a shame Shumie just missed the podium though......


I've watched the majority of races the past few years but i've not enjoyed a season this much for a long time!

Points for Williams too


----------



## JoT

jasonm said:


> What a race!!
> 
> That was brilliant!!! Jensen was superb, a shame Shumie just missed the podium though......


Every time I turned it on I saw the Safety Car; is that what Jensen was driving?


----------



## Guest

Amazing race, I stuck with it and I'm glad I did. Jensen had a fantastic drive-to be last at one point, drive through the pits 6 times and win it on the last lap...what can you say?


----------



## martinzx

jasonm said:


> What a race!!
> 
> That was brilliant!!! Jensen was superb, a shame Shumie just missed the podium though......


Agreed superb!


----------



## harryblakes7

yep brilliant!!

Had to laugh when Alonso had to wait behind Massa to have his tyres changed, reminds me of when he pulled that stunt on someone else when he was at Mclaren........

Wish Schumi had got a podium though.......


----------



## Alas

The last 6 laps were excellent - first the battle between schuey, webber and button and then Button chasing Vettel. Best end to a race for a long time. Also felt a bit sorry for Schuey not getting a podium but his car, rather than driving skill was not a match for the Mclaren or Red Bull.


----------



## Javaman365

I don't think it was Webbers driving that got him on the podium as much as the DRS and how the zoning worked. Let's face it, Schuey is in an inferior car (which is weird, given that to seasons ago the brawn was the one two beat and development since then has had Merc big bucks....) and yesterday, there was a glimmer of the ruthless skill and precision when he blocked Hamilton and then later overtook two cars at once.

Let's hope Mercedes can tidy up the car and then Schuey can set a cat amongst the pidgeons. He might not be a contender for the title, but he couls take Hamilton and Alonso down a peg or two - I used to like hamilton, but since he ditched his father as his manager, he's become a right stuck up little irk.


----------



## jasonm

Javaman365 said:


> I don't think it was Webbers driving that got him on the podium as much as the DRS and how the zoning worked. Let's face it, Schuey is in an inferior car (which is weird, given that to seasons ago the brawn was the one two beat and development since then has had Merc big bucks....) and yesterday, there was a glimmer of the ruthless skill and precision when he blocked Hamilton and then later overtook two cars at once.
> 
> Let's hope Mercedes can tidy up the car and then Schuey can set a cat amongst the pidgeons. He might not be a contender for the title, but he couls take Hamilton and Alonso down a peg or two - I used to like hamilton, but since he ditched his father as his manager, he's become a right stuck up little irk.


I agree with a lot of what you say.. The Brawn car was a bit of a one off, that for that season exploited a rule 'loophole' that was never closed in time and had the others scrambling midseason to get on their cars but it was too late, it had got the job done..

I just dont 'get' the DRS thing, Shuie had no chance and nor would anyone else really its like competing against a different spec of car..


----------



## jizzle

Well Deserved to Butten!!

He really pulled his finger out when put under pressure!! Brill driving!!

:thumbsup:


----------



## funtimefrankie

I hear the stewards are going to issue Lewis with a frequent visitor loyalty card.........

Frank

PS does anyone else think that Mark Webber suffers from Johnny Herberts luck?


----------



## JoT

Nice to see the BBC do a deal with Murdoch in order to get them out of their F1 dilemma :rofl:


----------



## funtimefrankie

SKY tried hosting F1 before and it was dire. I could tollerate ITV even if they did renage on their orignal promise of if there was any action or something important happend in a break they would cut back to the action. Ah well I suppose it's a good way of hiking up subscription costs.

Frank


----------



## Stinch

The BBC were providing the best coverage of F1 there has ever been and viewing figures were the highest theyâ€™ve ever been. I canâ€™t see how it makes good business sense to then damage their world class and flagship product. Typical of the Public Sector though, when asked to improve efficiency and reduce costs they reduce the service they provide rather than look at reducing the amounts in salary and benefit packages they pay themselves.


----------



## JoT

Stinch said:


> The BBC were providing the best coverage of F1 there has ever been and viewing figures were the highest theyâ€™ve ever been. I canâ€™t see how it makes good business sense to then damage their world class and flagship product. Typical of the Public Sector though, when asked to improve efficiency and reduce costs they reduce the service they provide rather than look at reducing the amounts in salary and benefit packages they pay themselves.


BBC - business sense? :huh: Â£40M a year cost to the licence payer for a minority sport!


----------



## martinzx

What no mention of Lewis Hamilton's excellent win last week in Germany ..........................

Go on Lewis ..............................


----------



## Stinch

JoT said:


> Stinch said:
> 
> 
> 
> The BBC were providing the best coverage of F1 there has ever been and viewing figures were the highest theyâ€™ve ever been. I canâ€™t see how it makes good business sense to then damage their world class and flagship product. Typical of the Public Sector though, when asked to improve efficiency and reduce costs they reduce the service they provide rather than look at reducing the amounts in salary and benefit packages they pay themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> BBC - business sense? :huh: Â£40M a year cost to the licence payer for a minority sport!
Click to expand...

Worldwide viewing figures for F1 is similar to the number that watch the football World Cup. Hardly a minority sport.


----------



## Stinch

I think if you really want to question business sense you have to ask why the BBC are spending hundreds of millions of Â£s in what can be seen as â€˜social engineeringâ€™ i.e. moving services from London to Salford.

Anyway hopefully â€˜Gentlemanâ€™ Jenson and Lewis are about to do well in qualifying.


----------



## JoT

Really exciting .... cars actually got damaged on the concrete kerbs .... who would have thought it


----------



## jasonm

It wasnt too bad at all, the track should have been more exciting somehow though ...

I see Hamilton is still playing at being Mr Grumpy though.... A poor loser that one....


----------



## martinzx

jasonm said:


> It wasnt too bad at all, the track should have been more exciting somehow though ...
> 
> I see Hamilton is still playing at being Mr Grumpy though.... A poor loser that one....


He will be happier when Massa is replaced .....lol

Massa the only driver to break his suspension , & twice ....................


----------



## Rotundus

JoT said:


> Really exciting .... cars actually got damaged on the concrete kerbs .... who would have thought it


i notice our otherwise adequate race commentators were calling them baguettes at one point.

mind you at that point in the race it was the only interesting thing going on.

is it just me or is the build up commentary getting more and more surreal and pointless?


----------



## martinzx

Go Lewis! Great race!

Well done, lovely!

Martin


----------



## SPEEDI

Great to see lewis back on the top step..

I think it was helped by seb v getting the puncture though..


----------



## Omega Steve 67

SPEEDI said:


> Great to see lewis back on the top step..
> 
> I think it was helped by seb v getting the puncture though..


Definitely, Vettels puncture was massive gift for Hamilton.

Still a very good race.

Did you see his tyres at the end compared to buttons !.


----------



## martinzx

Omega Steve 67 said:


> SPEEDI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great to see lewis back on the top step..
> 
> I think it was helped by seb v getting the puncture though..
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely, Vettels puncture was massive gift for Hamilton.
> 
> Still a very good race.
> 
> Did you see his tyres at the end compared to buttons !.
Click to expand...

I think its about time he had a gift 

I did notice the tyres, but Button was 3rd & Hamilton 1st 

Also Buttons lack of race pace was not all down to temperamental KERS

If RB had not of messed Webbers pit stop, he would have been 3rd,

glad they did though, great result for McLaren

Cheers martin


----------



## JoT

Time to bump this thread to the top 

1st race a procession second race it is raining ... the excitement


----------



## IAmATeaf

Alonso in the lead after the restart, Perez in 2nd place, what a race


----------



## Rotundus

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17542926 :thumbup:

vettel "i haven't got the fastest car and have to do some work for a change waaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" :tongue2:

glad to see williams have stepped up this season, but it would be nice if maldonaldo could get some points.

senna, mmm, not so sure bruno was the right choice, we'll see.


----------



## Dazzer

IAmATeaf said:


> Alonso in the lead after the restart, Perez in 2nd place, what a race


I so wanted Perez to win, what a result that would have been, he was pushing so hard.

In the end though a great result for him.


----------



## IAmATeaf

Dazzer said:


> IAmATeaf said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alonso in the lead after the restart, Perez in 2nd place, what a race
> 
> 
> 
> I so wanted Perez to win, what a result that would have been, he was pushing so hard.
> 
> In the end though a great result for him.
Click to expand...

I was also so wishing that Perez would put Alonso into a flap.


----------



## Rotundus

adam parr is gone!

FINALLY :yahoo:

could this be the turning point?


----------



## minkle

desmondus rotundus said:


> adam parr is gone!
> 
> FINALLY :yahoo:
> 
> could this be the turning point?


 :thumbsup:


----------



## Rotundus

both cars brought in points :thumbup:

happy birthday Sir Frank :notworthy:

am i the only one watching the F1 these days??? :huh:


----------



## martinzx

Happy to see Rosburg's 1st pole & win,

shame about Michael, but never mind .......

McLaren on top of constructors, Hamilton & Button 1 & 2 in leaders table

lovely jubbly


----------



## jasonm

Just watched the highlights! Wow! Those last 15 laps were fantastic to watch!!..


----------



## Rotundus

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17761734

of course you do you prat, you work for a company 50 % own by the Mumtalakat Holding Company.

i know F1 is more business than sport but this is weak! :thumbsdown:


----------



## Big Rick

desmondus rotundus said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17761734
> 
> of course you do you prat, you work for a company 50 % own by the Mumtalakat Holding Company.
> 
> i know F1 is more business than sport but this is weak! :thumbsdown:


I think you will find it's 40% . Ron Denis and Mansour Ojeh have 30% each thus have controlling intrest. At least that was the case when I was working there a couple of years ago!!


----------



## Rotundus

Big Rick said:


> desmondus rotundus said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17761734
> 
> of course you do you prat, you work for a company 50 % own by the Mumtalakat Holding Company.
> 
> i know F1 is more business than sport but this is weak! :thumbsdown:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you will find it's 40% . Ron Denis and Mansour Ojeh have 30% each thus have controlling intrest. At least that was the case when I was working there a couple of years ago!!
Click to expand...

doesn't really change my opinion that...


----------



## Javaman365

Heard on the news that two members of Force India have gone home from bahrain after getting caught up in some of the disturbances.

I fear this weekend could be a bit of a debacle (if it isn't already really).

With various rumblings of team safety etc, I can almost see a farce like the indianopolis race of 2005 brewing.


----------



## Rotundus

first practise out of the way now; sand storms predicted for later today ...


----------



## tixntox

Looks like Bernie might get "mugged" again!


----------



## Rotundus

tixntox said:


> Looks like Bernie might get "mugged" again!


yeah, its just a shame he wears those fugly hublot creations...


----------



## jasonm

Well done Williams!!

Really good to see them winning again....... I dont suppose it will last though.... So did I hear right? 5 races, 5 different winners? Result....! :thumbup:


----------



## Rotundus

even if it doesn't last it is a sign of a change in very much the right direction.

is it just me or has this thread gone very quiet...


----------



## martinzx

Very Happy to see Williams wining again, & Sir Frank on form in the interviews.

And what a race from Hamiliton having been hammered again in by the stewards, 24th to 8th!! Best Driver for sure IMHO

Yes Jase 5 different winners so far


----------



## minkle

Amazing race.. i had tears in my eyes :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:


----------



## BondandBigM

martinzx said:


> s.
> 
> And what a race from Hamiliton having been hammered again in by the stewards, 24th to 8th!! Best Driver for sure IMHO


There were a lot of slow cars back down the field :lol: :lol:

I'm still a big fan of Alonso, once again this season he's driving the wheels off that Ferrari which is less than perfect, the best driver in the pack by a long way and if the Ferrari comes good it could be his time again. Vettel and the Red Bull still in the hunt plus one or two others so I don't see Hamilton doing it.

And as my outside choice this year

The Ice Man Cometh


----------



## Rotundus

schoomie gong for most DNFs this season by the looks of things.

i hope this is his last year of racing...


----------



## [email protected]

Well for me it's started out as the most interesting and competitive season in years! Really looking forward to Monaco !!


----------



## jasonm

BondandBigM said:


> martinzx said:
> 
> 
> 
> s.
> 
> And what a race from Hamiliton having been hammered again in by the stewards, 24th to 8th!! Best Driver for sure IMHO
> 
> 
> 
> There were a lot of slow cars back down the field :lol: :lol:
> 
> I'm still a big fan of Alonso, once again this season he's driving the wheels off that Ferrari which is less than perfect, the best driver in the pack by a long way and if the Ferrari comes good it could be his time again. Vettel and the Red Bull still in the hunt plus one or two others so I don't see Hamilton doing it.
> 
> And as my outside choice this year
> 
> The Ice Man Cometh
Click to expand...

Im posting this through gritted teeth, but I agree with everything you said there :wallbash:


----------



## BondandBigM

jasonm said:


> Im posting this through gritted teeth, but I agree with everything you said there :wallbash:


:lol: :lol:


----------



## martinzx

BondandBigM said:


> jasonm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im posting this through gritted teeth, but I agree with everything you said there :wallbash:
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

That is rich Jase coming from a Ferrari fan!


----------



## BondandBigM

This might be a minor upcoming problem for Ferrari if their main sponsor goes bust



> On 10 September 2009, Ferrari announced that they would be sponsored by Santander from 2010 on a five year contract. It is believed that Santander will pay around â‚¬40 million ($56.5 million, Â£35 million) per season to sponsor Ferrari.


Now if I was a shareholder I'd almost certainly not be happy about them chucking away that sort of money every year on a couple of big red cars. I realise it's pennies in the overall scheme of things but even so.


----------



## Rotundus

another interesting qually.

that german bloke on pole :wallbash: on no he isnt is he :tongue2: :tongue2: :tongue2: :tongue2: :tongue2: :tongue2: :tongue2: :tongue2: :tongue2: :tongue2: :tongue2:

maldonado acting like a pratt :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

button way down the field :wallbash:

still hopefully a good race, webber on pole - would mind seeing him win.


----------



## scottswatches

i think Lewis might do it today, but would welcome a Lotus win - six races, six different winners and six different manufacturers would really mix every thing up


----------



## Rotundus

scottswatches said:


> i think Lewis might do it today, but would welcome a Lotus win - six races, six different winners and six different manufacturers would really mix every thing up


he does seem to have all his ducks in a better row this year :lol:


----------



## BondandBigM

Lewis who ???? :lol: :lol:

1 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 76

2 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Racing-Renault 73

3 Mark Webber Red Bull Racing-Renault 73


----------



## martinzx

BondandBigM said:


> Lewis who ???? :lol: :lol:
> 
> 1 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 76
> 
> 2 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Racing-Renault 73
> 
> 3 Mark Webber Red Bull Racing-Renault 73


It is early days Bond,

Hamilton has been the most consistent driver in all six races, despite being disqualified from 1st on the grid in Spain to last place still scored points & for a fuel infringement FFS!!! , Shumi endangers lives with his dangerous erratic driving & get a 5 grid penality, in the same race, same old same old $hite!!!

Alonso is a great driver, bit of a brat & cry baby but a great driver for sure 

To quote Alonso, who he sees as his biggest threat I quote 'Lewis Hamilton because he is the one that can win despite having a slower car'

So my money is still on Hamilton, despite McLaren messing up pit stops.


----------



## BondandBigM

martinzx said:


> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lewis who ???? :lol: :lol:
> 
> 1 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 76
> 
> 2 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Racing-Renault 73
> 
> 3 Mark Webber Red Bull Racing-Renault 73
> 
> 
> 
> It is early days Bond,
> 
> Hamilton has been the most consistent driver in all six races, despite being disqualified from 1st on the grid in Spain to last place still scored points & for a fuel infringement FFS!!! , Shumi endangers lives with his dangerous erratic driving & get a 5 grid penality, in the same race, same old same old $hite!!!
> 
> Alonso is a great driver, bit of a brat & cry baby but a great driver for sure
> 
> To quote Alonso, who he sees as his biggest threat I quote 'Lewis Hamilton because he is the one that can win despite having a slower car'
> 
> So my money is still on Hamilton, despite McLaren messing up pit stops.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree that Hamilton is a good driver but's he prone to rash decisions, that never goes away and has been his downfall on numerous occasions where as on the other hand, on the track at least Alonso is cool as a cucumber and rarely puts himself in any danger regardless of where he is positioned a race. Cream always comes to the top 

It's turning out to be one of the better seasons for a while


----------



## martinzx

BondandBigM said:


> martinzx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BondandBigM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lewis who ???? :lol: :lol:
> 
> 1 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 76
> 
> 2 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Racing-Renault 73
> 
> 3 Mark Webber Red Bull Racing-Renault 73
> 
> 
> 
> It is early days Bond,
> 
> Hamilton has been the most consistent driver in all six races, despite being disqualified from 1st on the grid in Spain to last place still scored points & for a fuel infringement FFS!!! , Shumi endangers lives with his dangerous erratic driving & get a 5 grid penality, in the same race, same old same old $hite!!!
> 
> Alonso is a great driver, bit of a brat & cry baby but a great driver for sure
> 
> To quote Alonso, who he sees as his biggest threat I quote 'Lewis Hamilton because he is the one that can win despite having a slower car'
> 
> So my money is still on Hamilton, despite McLaren messing up pit stops.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't disagree that Hamilton is a good driver but's he prone to rash decisions, that never goes away and has been his downfall on numerous occasions where as on the other hand, on the track at least Alonso is cool as a cucumber and rarely puts himself in any danger regardless of where he is positioned a race. Cream always comes to the top
> 
> It's turning out to be one of the better seasons for a while
Click to expand...

I think Hamiliton is maturing as a driver & agree, the cream always comes to the top, just think it will be Hammy this year 

Alonso is for sure a class act, no doubt.

Was happy for Webber to win he did a great Job,


----------



## JoT

I watched the Indy 500 yesterday, now that IS motor racing, and well done Rubens for finishing 11th in his first Indy 500

I also like the fact officials can retire cars if they are too slow :yes:


----------



## Alas

Great work by Franchitti as now a three times winner of Indy 500. Probably due to the fact he has an ugly wife to go home to so he stays at the track all the time. The gorgeous Ashley Judd - what a lucky git.


----------



## Top.Gun

Could we start a book on who Schumacher is going to run off the circuit next?


----------



## martinzx

BondandBigM said:


> Lewis who ???? :lol: :lol:
> 
> 1 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 76
> 
> 2 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Racing-Renault 73
> 
> 3 Mark Webber Red Bull Racing-Renault 73


It has all gone quiet all of a sudden Commander Bond???







:lol:







Fernando who???

1 Lewis Hamilton 88


----------



## jasonm

Havent watched it yet, but a good race apparently , 7 winners from 7 races....


----------



## Simley

These season of F1 is very interesting.

After 7 races... still hard to say who is the leader...


----------



## scottswatches

a good race in a great season

Schumacher has all the luck of a florist with hay fever this year, and I'm glad Jenson doesn't know why he was so slow - we don't either!


----------



## scottswatches

Even Valencia this year was good! This has to be the best season ever.

Massa is now 100 points behind Alonso. Credit to Ferrari for sticking with him after his accident, but he has to be replaced soon. Throw in a young driver until Vettel's 2014 contract option comes in!


----------



## Rotundus

scottswatches said:


> Throw in a young driver until Vettel's 2014 contract option comes in!


unless the fortunes of the two teams change quite a bit i don't see vettel going anywhere near the prancing pony.

lets face it alonso won on the back of d.n.f.s by vettel and hamilton.

they may have a quick pit crew but their strategy put alonso in the middle of the pack, which alright he did improve on.

a win is a win, but how often is ferrari going to be that lucky ?

ferrari do seem to be getting their ducks in a row  but looking at the big picture :lol: will the dog see the rabbit? :tongue_ss:

an interesting race though.

its a shame hamilton got in the way of that williams, {i may be a touch biased} but at least he seems to have his head together this year.

maldonado said he couldnt control his re-entry to the track as he was sliding on the kerb. mmmm, well he would say that wouldn't he.......

talent no doubt and the car/team is getting its act together again but he needs to get his head on straight.

i still say get rid of senna, sorry but williams can and should do better, and if maldo cant get his poop together, well ... what has williams got to lose?

just a few of my thoughts on the race. roll on silverstone - once again we wont be there.... a nooo yaaaaak grand prix in the next year or two would be fun though...


----------



## jasonm

Great to see Fernando win on him home circuit ........ I have to admit I laughed out loud when Hamilton got taken out..... And Shumacher in the podium too! Great stuff.......


----------



## martinzx

jasonm said:


> Great to see Fernando win on him home circuit ........ I have to admit I laughed out loud when Hamilton got taken out..... And Shumacher in the podium too! Great stuff.......


It was an eventful race, I really enjoyed it.

Why would you lol when a Brit driver got taken out?

Can't understand that one?

Maybe you lol when England missed the penalties last night???

Cheers Martin


----------



## jasonm

I just don't like him..... Spoilt little petulant brat in my opinion.....

Penalties? What did I miss?


----------



## dobra

Watch RTL with Nicki Lauder and avoid banal commentary.... The Venezuelan who pushed Hamilton off, has a history of bumping (Dodgem car training?).

Mile.


----------



## itsguy

Something you might all enjoy - Lewis & Jenson in a simulated London Grand Prix street race!


----------



## Dusty

Some pictures I took at today's race. Had a great day out and the rain stayed away !!!




























and the Winner :thumbup:


----------



## scottswatches

great pics Dusty, I like the De Resta one with the puncture.


----------



## Dazzer

Great photos Dusty, you were really luck with the weather, Qualifiying was real nasty weather. I was nice and dry at home on the sofa.

I think someone needs to teach Pastor Maldonado the laws of physics !

Not at fantastic race compared to some this season, I would have prefered a little rain on race day to spice things up a bit.


----------



## Rotundus

nice pics.

we had a bit of a power cut so my sodding sky box only recorded the last seven laps. :taz:

at least i got to see the webber over take. :yes:


----------



## Dusty

Rotundus said:


> nice pics.
> 
> we had a bit of a power cut so my sodding sky box only recorded the last seven laps. :taz:
> 
> at least i got to see the webber over take. :yes:


Here it is again........great move :yes:










Thanks guys for the comements its not easy to get good pictures when the cars are flying passed :taz:


----------



## Service Engineer

I've loved every minute of this season (apart from Eddie 'The Fairy King' Jordan prancing about. What is it with him ?).

Great pictures above.

Great comments too. Can't comment on the football - no interest but there must be a better way to decide than penalties ?

I agree about Hamilton. Petulant sums him up nicely.

Also I find it difficult to take him seriously with his doe eyes, girly lips and those ear rings !

Well done Webber. It even stopped him saying "Er" every other word when he was interviewed afterwards. A good drive.

Schuey - brilliant !

A Great Season.


----------



## Rotundus

now that's more like it, both Williams in the top 10.

such an improvement on last year, just need a better consistency now.


----------



## Rotundus

ok, lets see what we can do with the FW35 then.

http://www.williamsf1.com/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/21504230

oh look controversy already


----------



## BondandBigM

I'm still going with Alonso again this season, he been the most consistent and so close the last couple of seasons, the Ferrari is coming good so could be his year.


----------



## Dirty Habitz

I'll be cheering Jenson on, as usual. It'll also be very interesting to see how Lewis gets on with the Mercedes and develops it during the season. I'm not a big fan of Lewis, but I like his unpredictability, makes him exciting to watch.

C'mon JB! :thumbsup:


----------



## martinzx

I will be cheering Lewis on as usual & looking forward to a great season of F1 with a lot of new blood, should be fun!

Cheers Martin


----------



## Dazzer

Last season was fantastic, so this season has a lot to live up to.

By far the most interesting thing for me this season is seeing how Lewis gets on. The young Lewis has to win at all costs meaning the red mist would come down and costly mistakes were made. This made for great viewing though. Now in the Merc he may have to drive for strategic point something I don't think he's going to be used too.

It's going to be fun watching Perez in a competitive car, he had moments of fantastic driving last year, but also times were passion outweighed talent.


----------



## Carlosjackal

oohhh, I love F1 discussions.

Hamilton. Happy wife, happy life.... That break up with his bird really fluffed his season up in 2011. (I think it was that season). But reading between the lines, I am not sure he is going to be in the top 3 at the end of this 2013 season. I reckon they are not expecting anything more.

Perez. Moments of briliance, then seemed to go down hill a bit last year. I reckon his is another fast one who needs to win, and wont play the strategic game.

Unlike Alonso, who has to be the current master of strategic points playing. He a great racer too.

Button is brilliant, when he has a brilliant car, or changeable conditions. Give him a car he isnt happy with, he is average. Would be nice to see him outshine Perez though, and I think he will, on points (as per Hamilton)

who else... oh yeah, the bloody Red Bulls. Not sure about anyone else, but they are the team I love to hate. Webber, well I just cant stop thinking of the season(s) he was at Jaguar Racing. I am sure from memory he had a clause in his contract which stated he could leave Jag Racing if they didnt finish so far up the grid by XXX time. His mid season onwards was very, very average... on for that reason, I am out!.

Vettel is good. He is fast, and until recently, he was a win or bust guy. Hard one to beat again I reckon, and I would like to see that.

Massa! what? is he still in it this year? Rubbish!

Thats enough ranting for now


----------



## Rotundus

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21811899

for the music if nothing else :wub: unk:


----------



## urzamoon

Having no Sky, I'm dependent on BBC highlights. Got myself beers and some snacks and well they postponed the Qualifications ! It's going to be a busy day for drivers tomorrow. Can't wait.


----------



## JoT

A Lotus in first place :huh: when did they come back to F1? :lol:


----------



## JoT

Reports that Michael Schumacher has suffered serious head injuries in a skiing accident, no details yet


----------



## RTM Boy

The French media are currently reporting he has a cerebral hemorrhage and is in a critical condition...


----------



## JoT

Latest update from the hospital is they carried out a surgical intervention to evacuate a heamatoma and reduce intercranial pressure and that the situation is better controlled but can't say he is out of danger.


----------



## Always"watching"

Edit: We already have this Formula 1 topic so I am merged your thread with it ... JoT

Before I start this topic I need to say two things. Firstly, my respect goes to the recovering Michael Schumaker, and to all those past and present Formula 1 drivers who died in the pursuit of their vocation of racing driver. Ans secondly, all quotations in this topic are drawn from "The Inside Track" by Jake Humphrey (Simon and Schuster,2012).

As a lover of classic and modern cars with an interest in motor racing, I have oveer the last few years developed a worrying sense of unease about Formula 1 racing, to the extent that I wonder if it really has any raison d'etre as a sport. This feeling was finally brought to a head by Jake Humphrey's recent paeon of praise for modern Formula 1, in which he tends to limit the negative consideration, sometimes in a disturbingly naive fashion naive fashion. Take this quote, from a section about the Brazilian Grand Prix at San Paulo;

"In 2009 I visited the favelas with Lewis Hamilton. Standing high on the hills above the city, overlooking the shanty towns where millions of people live, you can see the track and hear the cars. Can you imagine how much inspiration the local children would have taken from hearing the car of their hero reverberating around the ramshackle buildings."

My feelings about this statement bring in a number of criticisms of Formula 1 which begin with whether or not it does have some responsibility to directly impact upon the poverty and other social issues of the places it visits in its round of world races. By and large, it would seem that Formula 1 avoids such clashes although even Jake Humphrey who claims that it isn't the job of Formula 1 to help other countries to solve their problems, he does acknowledge that something might be achieved by shedding some light upon their troubles. Also, he does acknowledge albeit a bit grudgingly, James Hunt's attack on apartheid in South Africa while he was in the Formula 1 commentary box. Note that a producer proceeded to shut him up with a note that said "TALK ABOUT THE RACE."

What makes this business of social intervention by Formula 1 so relevant is the fact that Formula 1 is awash with money, at least among the few major teams, and there are certainly moral problems when it comes to who the sponsors are and how they behave. We all know about the huge amounts of money that were previously pumped into Formula 1, and you might think that the tobacco money has now gone but to my shock and amazement, I have discovered that the official name of the Ferrari racing team is Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro. How sick is that when we know that the tobacco companies are targeting third world countries with their products.

According to Jake Humphrey, "It's said that to run an F1 team you need to start with a budget of Â£1.25 million a week, or over Â£60 million a year. Now this is just the basic figure before you start adding on extra speed. The first Â£10 million you spend on top of this may offer big leaps inn performance, the next Â£10 million less so as you are into diminishing returns, so the top teams are laying out huge sums of money, hundreds of millions, to go racing and are spending big cash for what might be tiny gains.

The constant striving to gain an extra edge on one's rivals in terms of car engineering produces a childish engineering competition whereby a "tell tale" mentality exists. One team produces an innovation and the other teams try and get it banned. If the innovation is declared legal then all the other major teams immediately try and copy it - ad infinitum, with huge sums of money being spent. In terms of the perfectionism of Formula 1 even outside the actual racing, one comes across ridiculous situations like staff having to use a black marker pen over the green stitching on outdoor black chairs in the guest area because the team colours didn't include green.

Now let us look at the actual racing itself, which by my standards is NOT a great spectacle on TV. Indeed, the television rendering of Formula ! just doesn't have the noise,nor the awareness of the track and cars that visiting a Grand Prix has. My carer has a good friend who is a real fan of Grand Prix and she has been and witnessed a recent British Grand Prix. One of her friends is a Steward (who, by the way is an unpaid volunteer) and she noted just how expensive it is to go to a Grand Prix - the Program cost her something like Â£35

I believe. She also took my carer to the Nascar event at Brands Hatch which was a vivid sensory experience and nothing like the bland television rendition of such a day. And yet, the media have become vitally important in Formula 1, for probably the wrong reasons.

One aspect of Grand Prix has always baffled and annoyed me and that is when pro Formula 1 spokesmen stress that it is all team work and based on total trust. The first crack in this wall of justification must be the deliberate use of two drivers per team, in which these two "teammates" are actually arch rivals and can play various "games" on and off the track in order to eventually come out ahead of their partner in the race. Also, of course, there is no trust at all between teams, which are in a state of deadly rivalry fuelled by huge sums of money. The money tap may be available for the major teams but for the small teams and anyone wishing to bring a new team into Formula 1, life can be pretty intolerable, as can life for the driver who suddenly loses his form - he is quickly eliminated from the team.

Finally, before I bore everyone rigid, I would like to ask the question; is Formula 1 a genuine sport when drivers are not competing fairly. Each driver is seated in a different car, and each car is essentially a prototype, given the number of modifications that are constantly being made. Lewis Hamilton apparently has said that he would prefer it if everyone knew what modifications had been made to his car and that he would like races to be run using identical cars so that the driver actually received the praise that he is fairly due. It is n ow often said that all that really counts is getting a good position on the starting grid.

And as a final note, which I had never considered before, Formula 1 seems to the outsider to be a sort of self-contained wealthy world where we know the names of the drivers, but outside that rarified world we generally have little or no knowledge of those racing drivers who are struggling in other series to come up to Formula 1 level and often spending everything they have to climb the greasy pole of motor racing. Jake Humphrey compares this anonymous racing world to the world of football, where footballers from leagues below the premier division are still known, praised and liked.

I would appreciate all views on this topic, especially as I do like cars and layman's motor engineering. As things stand now, I have no desire to watch or be particularly interested in Formula 1, and I don't have the sens that it is a sport in the true sense of the word.


----------



## Always"watching"

As a final question about Formula 1 which hopefully someone understands: Where are the women?


----------



## BondandBigM

> As a final question about Formula 1 which hopefully someone understands: Where are the women?


----------



## harryblakes7

Ouch......... All the women are holding the grid poles :lol: .............. Vicky Butler Henderson did some motorsport racing but all the lads pushed her off the track............. Although i do know some fast women............. 

Sadly the sport is more driven by sponsorship rather than actual abitlity...............

In reply to "Just Watchings" more serious and longer question, i would like to say it's better to let the politicians and others deal with matters in lands where there are problems and poverty / violence, much as it saddens me to see it and am sure many others as well.

What Formula 1 does, along with other motorsports, is design and be at the cutting edge of new technologies and developments, ABS was one example, alog with the use of carbon fibre and more modern engine developments, along with the dual sequential clutch, which is now a feature on VW cars and others, where your next gear is pre-selected for you. Traction control and "yaw" breaking when going round corners ( not used in F1 but derived from Rally / Motorsport ) Tyre technologies and grip, as well as downforce, carbon brakes, carbon clutches, variable valve timing, dampers with magnetic particle fluid to stiffen and relax damping in milliseconds, the most recent development is Mc Claren are working on a visor that cleans itself from rain and remain clear by using a finely vibrating shield, this will be becoming part of the new Mc Claren car, doing away with the need of wipers, so the list is endless really..........all the design work and technology eventually trickles down to the road cars and helps us all at the end of the day


----------



## rhaythorne

Don't forget Susie!


----------



## JoT

And Davina, only three starts in F1 and three DNQs plus 4 finishes out of 7 starts in F2 .... she wasn't good enough

Always thought she looked like James Hunt!


----------



## RTM Boy

When I was young I was very into F1 - watched every race, read Autosport from cover to cover within half an hour of WH Smith opening and me buying that week's copy straight off the trolley before they even had the chance to put it on the shelf. When I was older as well as the British GP I travelled from race to race around Europe too. You get the idea. But in the 1970s and 80s the sport was very different to the F1 of today. Certainly sponsorship was already there, but costs were far lower for both teams and spectators. Most teams were British - many so-called 'garagistas' because they operated from someone's garage - and shared common components eg Cosworth DFV engines and Hewland gear boxes, which were pretty much off-the-shelf. As a spectator you could just turn up and get in to a GP meeting on the day for a few quid - it was never cheap-cheap, but it wasn't expensive and you didn't have to book a year ahead.

The ever increasing commercialisation of F1, changes to rules, the points system, the number of races, the increasing move away from European circuits, the whole ballooning circus of it all made me gradually lose interest. Above all, drivers used to have character and style but have increasingly become automatons who care only about themselves to the exclusion of everyone and evrything else - a change that I think coincided with the Schumacher era. Senna's death - 20 years ago this year - was a turning point in so many ways and whilst safety has improved in leaps and bounds, F1 became just another globalised corporate entity with big-name manufacturers taking over insisting on having their own engines in their own car, built in their own extravagently expensive factory shipped around the world to ever more expensive cicuits in expensive locations where the Â£Â£Â£ got you a race.

Today, I take no interest in F1. I can't recall the last race I watched more than 5 minutes of. It just doesn't interest me anymore. And if you'd known me in my teens, you'd hardly believe it possible that I no longer care.

Despite his undoubted ability, I never liked Schumacher as a driver (and that's nothing to do with his battles with Damon Hill) and think that in the same car at the same time the likes of Nuvolari, Ascari, Clark and Senna would have left him for dust. I wish him no ill, but whereas once it would have mattered to me, it simply doesn't anymore.


----------



## tixntox

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/bernie-ecclestone-could-lose-f1-empire-court-100427557.html

Oh dear, oh dear! What a shame it would be! :yahoo:

Mike


----------



## JoT

RTM Boy said:


> When I was young I was very into F1 - watched every race, read Autosport from cover to cover within half an hour of WH Smith opening and me buying that week's copy straight off the trolley before they even had the chance to put it on the shelf. When I was older as well as the British GP I travelled from race to race around Europe too. You get the idea. But in the 1970s and 80s the sport was very different to the F1 of today. Certainly sponsorship was already there, but costs were far lower for both teams and spectators. Most teams were British - many so-called 'garagistas' because they operated from someone's garage - and shared common components eg Cosworth DFV engines and Hewland gear boxes, which were pretty much off-the-shelf. As a spectator you could just turn up and get in to a GP meeting on the day for a few quid - it was never cheap-cheap, but it wasn't expensive and you didn't have to book a year ahead.
> 
> The ever increasing commercialisation of F1, changes to rules, the points system, the number of races, the increasing move away from European circuits, the whole ballooning circus of it all made me gradually lose interest. Above all, drivers used to have character and style but have increasingly become automatons who care only about themselves to the exclusion of everyone and evrything else - a change that I think coincided with the Schumacher era. Senna's death - 20 years ago this year - was a turning point in so many ways and whilst safety has improved in leaps and bounds, F1 became just another globalised corporate entity with big-name manufacturers taking over insisting on having their own engines in their own car, built in their own extravagently expensive factory shipped around the world to ever more expensive cicuits in expensive locations where the Â£Â£Â£ got you a race.
> 
> Today, I take no interest in F1. I can't recall the last race I watched more than 5 minutes of. It just doesn't interest me anymore. And if you'd known me in my teens, you'd hardly believe it possible that I no longer care.
> 
> Despite his undoubted ability, I never liked Schumacher as a driver (and that's nothing to do with his battles with Damon Hill) and think that in the same car at the same time the likes of Nuvolari, Ascari, Clark and Senna would have left him for dust. I wish him no ill, but whereas once it would have mattered to me, it simply doesn't anymore.


I agree with most of what you say

Back in my younger days F1 was bloody dangerous which I suppose added to the attraction and enhanced my view of the men who drove the cars. there's no doubt it was more exciting, the cars were fast and hard to control, the tracks were tight and dangerous.

I suppose it had to change or go out of business

Bernie did some good things, driver safety, superb tracks and billions put into technology by the teams.

Here's the downside

It has made modern F1 boring!

I find the messing around with tyres, qualifying and all the petty rules a real turn-off more like WWE that F1

How do you make it exciting again? I dont know what the answer is.


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## tixntox

> Bernie did some good things, driver safety, superb tracks and billions put into technology by the teams.


I hardly think that was down to Bernie! It was the drivers groups who insisted on safety improvements. Bernie is more interested in making money, not spending it.

Mike


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## JoT

tixntox said:


> Bernie did some good things, driver safety, superb tracks and billions put into technology by the teams.
> 
> 
> 
> I hardly think that was down to Bernie! It was the drivers groups who insisted on safety improvements. Bernie is more interested in making money, not spending it.
> 
> Mike
Click to expand...

Bernie didn't spend the money, he railroaded the tracks into spending money, remember how he gave Silverstone a hard time? But I agree the drivers organised themselves to make tracks safer as well


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## jasonm

The 'problem' for me is that for many years now the drivers drive at 100% of the cars capabilities all the time, the cars cant give any more even if the driver has the balls to try to drive faster, they will just go off somewhere, they literally are at the cars limit of performance, in the old days of sticky tyres and huge boost engines the car had more to give if the driver was good enough and brave enough, they had to make choices then, go faster but use more fuel and risk running out, or go faster but use up the tyres more ... Its just a bit dull now, no characters any more.....


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## tixntox

jasonm said:


> The 'problem' for me is that for many years now the drivers drive at 100% of the cars capabilities all the time, the cars cant give any more even if the driver has the balls to try to drive faster, they will just go off somewhere, they literally are at the cars limit of performance, in the old days of sticky tyres and huge boost engines the car had more to give if the driver was good enough and brave enough, they had to make choices then, go faster but use more fuel and risk running out, or go faster but use up the tyres more ... Its just a bit dull now, no characters any more.....


Exactly. :yes: Once the "limiters" (and I don't just mean the engines) are introduced, everything is limited. The only "advantages" then are the bending of the rules and limits. I remember seeing bodywork being measured at standstill which was clearly "bending" to illegal measurements on the track. Clever engineering, clearly giving that driver an "edge"! Don't ask me which car it was. You can probably guess! :yes:

Mike


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## Rotundus

oh cheer up .................

hear we go again

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/25842953


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## Rotundus

meh !


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## jeffvader

Seen this thing?


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## Rotundus

not pretty but can't possibly be much worse than the underwhelming FW35 last year. been a Williams follower for years but it has been  hard work recently


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## Rotundus

mc laren not looking any better - and no title sponsor this year ?


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## JoT

I watched the start of the Aussie GP and though I had gone deaf! What are they using this year, electric motors!!?


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## Rotundus

i was looking for this thread yesterday and couldn't find it. :wallbash:

as a williams fan i am sort of happy with how the first race went.

shame gobybashi's rear brakes failed taking out massa but poop happens...

bottas 6th from 15th was great, pity he hit the wall taking out a tyre or i suppose that 6th could have been better.

should be an interesting season.

not too bothered about the quieter engines tbh, means we can hear the driver/pit conversations better i suppose.

martini anyone :thumbup:


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## jasonm

Your not far off John, 150bhp is provided by batteries!

I also watched the start of the race with high hopes of getting excited about F1 again, I was disappointed and underwhelmed... The sound of a high revving engine was half the spectacle and fun....

Meh........


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## Bob Sheruncle

In the late 1970's when I used to go to races, the sound of those 3.0 Litre V8 engines used to take your breath away. Especially on the first lap when a lot of the cars were bunched together. Happy days.


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## Rotundus

awww dah poor oldies are so hard of hearing they cant appreciate modern technology ldman: ldman:

:tongue2:


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## rhaythorne

I really enjoyed the race and it was good to see some old favourites returning to form to mix it up a bit. It's just a pity that the "rules" got in the way yet again and messed up the result.

With "power units" now replacing "engines" as such perhaps the teams need new names: McLaren-Mercedes-Duracell, Sauber-Ferrari-Ever Ready, Lotus-Renault-Rayovac perhaps 

The new sound will take some getting used to but I especially liked that you could hear turbos spinning up, waste gates opening, electric motor whine and tyre squeal. Much more engaging than previous years' high-revving wail which I found pretty tiresome to be honest.


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## no8yogi

I loved it, although I can see Mercedes romping away with it this year and the excitment being whether Hamilton beats Rosberg or visa versa, as for the noise it did sound odd, but as with everything once you get half way through the season you will get used to it, I actually agree with the ideas around engine size and the advancement of the battery techknowledgy etc nothing moves things along like a battle, where would airplanes be if the 2 world wars hadnt happend? Looking forward to seeing some of this tech filtering down to the road cars of the near future.


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## Delroyb

Don't discount McLaren. They are on one this year and the car is very clever. Only thing that may floor them is a reduction in cooperation from Merc on the engine as they are swapping to Honda next year. They are hoping that an updates package will pull out an extra second next weekend and they have a class driver pairing with Jenson and Magnussen, a perfect combo of a seriously quick youngster and world champion experience.

Also, Red Bull will be a contender. Newey hasn't suddenly forgotten how to build a fast car and once the engine/cooling package gremlins are ironed out, they will be right on it. There is a hell of a lot more to come from all of these cars!


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## no8yogi

Delroyb said:


> Don't discount McLaren. They are on one this year and the car is very clever. Only thing that may floor them is a reduction in cooperation from Merc on the engine as they are swapping to Honda next year. They are hoping that an updates package will pull out an extra second next weekend and they have a class driver pairing with Jenson and Magnussen, a perfect combo of a seriously quick youngster and world champion experience.
> 
> Also, Red Bull will be a contender. Newey hasn't suddenly forgotten how to build a fast car and once the engine/cooling package gremlins are ironed out, they will be right on it. There is a hell of a lot more to come from all of these cars!


true I hope so! I do love F1! not sure why but I just do!


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## gaz64

Do they still do F1 then?


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## Rekhmire

Alway winds me up that F1 gets so much attention when Moto GP is so much more exciting to watch. Want to see real RACING? Watch Moto GP.


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## no8yogi

Rekhmire said:


> Alway winds me up that F1 gets so much attention when Moto GP is so much more exciting to watch. Want to see real RACING? Watch Moto GP.


I would agree ~Moto GP is exciting and I love watching it but I suppose the simple fact is everyone drives a car yet not everyone rides a bike so the fan base just isnt as big, as a spectical Moto GP is probably more exciting than F1 but F1 just has a wider appeal with household brands (cars, watches, clothing etc etc) sponsoring them this drives familiarity, a lot of the Moto GP sponsors are somewhat more obscure and bike specific (not all I agree but most) and all the drama and tinkering that the FIA do whilst a lot of people say this detracts from the racing certainly adds to the drama! One of the greatest F1 seasons ever (Hunts win) was basically decided in a court room after his spain win. As I say I love it the drama the racing and all the wrangling that goes on behind closed doors plus the pace of development is visable to see, this doesnt seem to happen as much in moto GP so purer racing maybe but humans are a fickle bunch and love a bit of drama, look at how popular eastenders is (I dont get it but lots do)


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## titus21

Having dusted themselves off after Australiaâ€™s season opener, the F1 teams regroup in the heat of Kuala Lumpur this weekend, where the challenge of the Sepang International Circuit awaits. Those involved in the 2014 Formula 1 Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix discuss their prospectsâ€¦


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## RTM Boy

Rotundus said:


> awww dah poor oldies are so hard of hearing they cant appreciate modern technology ldman: ldman:
> 
> :tongue2:


Eeee, when I wer'a lad F1 was called Grand Prix motor racing, cars were tinkered with in the open using spanners and wrenches, fuel was added with a can and funnel and crash protection consisted of a set of overalls made of slightly thicker cotton... Most cars had a 50:50 chance of completing the race (unless your car was a Renault in which case it had a 10% chance of finishing). Irrespective of the qualifying (two timed sessions on consecutive days, one hour long, go out when you like for as long as you like on whatever tyres you have or feel like using), at least half a dozen drivers had a realistic chance of winning and with every race you usually had a different winner than the last one. Most cars used the same engine (Cosworth DFV) and gearbox (Hewland) and changing gear was achieved using something called a 'gear lever'. There were just 9 points for a win, 6 for second and so on. Pole position got 1 point and fastest lap got 1 point. Drivers were characters with huge personalities and were brave beyond belief.

I haven't watched a race from start to finish for about 20 years either at a circuit or on the TV. Nowadays I don't watch it at all. The seemingly never ending rule changes look like nothing more than desperate attempts to make what used to be an unpredictable, brave, exciting spectacle of a sport but is now a boring, characterless mutlinational corporate shindig, into something worth watching. Epic fail.


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## no8yogi

I couldn't disagree more! This weekend was brilliant exciting wheel to wheel action and if you didn't watch it you missed out on something epic


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## Rotundus

yup, that was a good race, best in a while !

and 5 points finishes for williams in 3 races so looks like there may be light at the end of the tunnel :thumbup:

F1 has alway been about winning and the development and change required to win. stand still get left behind (i.e. go play golf :lol:. )


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## ombray

It was very exciting. Glad to see two cars fighting for a win, even if they are for the same team.


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## AbingtonLad

I've never posted on this thread before, but couldn't resist the opportunity to tie it in with a thread on tax evasion that recently passed through, and with the purpose of the forum itself... watches.

A quick calculation reveals that Mr Ecclestone has 'avoided' enough tax to splash out on a new one of these for EVERY day of the year:










That's assuming, of course, that he gets one tax-free (around Â£300,000) from somewhere outside the UK...

Which I'm pretty sure he would.


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## JoT

Is Formula 1 still a thing?

It's the Indy 500 on Sunday, a real race


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## WRENCH

JoT said:


> Is Formula 1 still a thing?
> 
> It's the Indy 500 on Sunday, a real race


 My wife is a huge formula 1 fan, I go out of the room when its on.

Indy 500 ? Not sure.

This is exciting.


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## JoT

I watched the Indy 500 - the racing was brilliant, well matched cars, astonishing speeds and close racing. The first three were separated by only 0.34 of a second!

Now watching a procession of F1 cars at Monaco :sleeping-face:


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## rhaythorne

JoT said:


> I watched the Indy 500 - the racing was brilliant, well matched cars, astonishing speeds and close racing. The first three were separated by only 0.34 of a second!


 Which only goes to prove that the first 499 miles are a complete waste of time because they're not really racing until the closing stages. Le Mans is on in a couple of weeks time. Now that's a race worth watching!


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## Teg62x

rhaythorne said:


> Which only goes to prove that the first 499 miles are a complete waste of time because they're not really racing until the closing stages. Le Mans is on in a couple of weeks time. Now that's a race worth watching!


 Kate and I went to LeMans a few years back, fantastic atmosphere and the week before the race is great, we camped actually outside the main entrance and every night there was a party and unofficial drag races with some top motors. All the super car owners clubs turn up and show off their cars, when we were there we had a massive water fight on the camp site, with lots of beer/wine and absolutely no trouble at all. The local police turn a blind eye to the drag racing as long as it is just outside the track and not through the town. We went in my old MR2 MkII and had a fantastic holiday, keep threatening to go back but not the same in a SUV!


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## rhaythorne




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## JoT

@rhaythorne interesting old video, you can see why it is known as the "brickyard" imagine racing around a banked track made of bricks in thise old cars? Brave (or foolhardy) men!


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## Q.Lotte

The father-in-law's car, back in the day...

[IMG alt="Image result for wolf racing f1" data-ratio="50.75"]https://www.statsf1.com/constructeurs/photos/103/798.jpg[/IMG]

...and his custom Countach

[IMG alt="image" data-ratio="50.00"]https://hips.hearstapps.com/roa.h-cdn.co/assets/16/14/768x384/landscape-1460314614-wolf.jpg?resize=480:*[/IMG]

Cheerio

QL


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## BondandBigM

rhaythorne said:


> Which only goes to prove that the first 499 miles are a complete waste of time because they're not really racing until the closing stages. Le Mans is on in a couple of weeks time. Now that's a race worth watching!


 People mock Nascar or Indy Car racing but wheel to wheel for 500 miles at over 225mph and at the finish only tenths of a second and on top of that the slightest deviation you end up wearing concrete must take a seriously big pair probably why not very many current or ex F1drivers made the cut.

Hence despite his reputation why I rate Mansell up there with some of the greats.


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## Nigelp

BondandBigM said:


> People mock Nascar or Indy Car racing but wheel to wheel for 500 miles at over 225mph and at the finish only tenths of a second and on top of that the slightest deviation you end up wearing concrete must take a seriously big pair probably why not very many current or ex F1drivers made the cut.
> 
> Hence despite his reputation why I rate Mansell up there with some of the greats.


 exactly crap at f1 great at going round in an oval with the wheel set at 25 degrees with just the odd red neck to avoid like doing the m25 bet he read more crime novels than thee has.

while doing it.

and a proper bloody winger


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## BondandBigM

Nigelp said:


> exactly crap at f1 great at going round in an oval with the wheel set at 25 degrees with just the odd red neck to avoid like doing the m25 bet he read more crime novels than thee has.
> 
> while doing it.
> 
> and a proper bloody winger





















Wasn't he a back to back F1/Indy Car champion, can't be many achieved that.



:biggrin:


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## Nigelp

BondandBigM said:


> Wasn't he a back to back F1/Indy Car champion, can't be many achieved that.
> 
> 
> 
> :biggrin:


 dont worry about that have you missed my comments on your new bird in the seamaster on the beach lidl watch thread?

Im off now night night.


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## Q.Lotte

JoT said:


> Impressive duo! And a pretty good Father in Law as well!


 Even better when I managed to get her indoors a Scalextric replica of her dad's car.

[IMG alt="Wolf WR5" data-ratio="64.31"]http://www.scalextricguide.com/catalogue_images/1980_c106.jpg[/IMG]


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## wrenny1969

Personally I think F1 is dying. Periods where single teams dominate are not what the viewer wants, I've sat through periods where; Williams, McLaren, Red Bull, Ferrari and now Mercedes (Brawn) dominate. TBH I like most drivers as they put their lives on the line but given the choice of paying or watch on edited highlights, I've paid once this year and watched on highlights once. I hear the French grand prix was a bit of a chore from a spectator's perspective too. I really believe F1 is dying before our eyes (if you watch it that is). Joke is I have been an avid fan for 30 years.


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## WRENCH

I stopped watching F1 as it has become too "clinical" Moto GP is going the same way. Now if "F1" did this, it would be exciting.


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## wrenny1969

I think the viewing figures across Sky and C4 highlights show it's bombing this year. TBH I can't even see myself watching the British GP as to offer only one race a year free to air isn't enough to whet the whistle. I think I'm out. Whilst I used to ride a bike I've never really been interested in watching them race.


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## rhaythorne

Unfortunately Paul Ricard is a rubbish circuit for F1 racing and yesterday's tedious affair was one of the dullest I can remember. Magny-Cours was so much better. Luckily I had the presence of mind to record the excellent WTA Birmingham Final between Ash Barty and Julia Görges so the afternoon wasn't completely wasted 

Austrian GP is next weekend. Sadly, that's not one of my favourite tracks either.


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## JoT

Watching a recording of this weekend's Indycar race "GP at Road America"

Good circuit, well matched cars so driver abilities to the fore. Lap 17 - Rosi made a better tyre choice and is 9 seconds ahead of second placed Power and the next 8 cars are separated by only 8 seconds. Not as spectacular as an oval but good racing so far.


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## scottswatches

Unfortunately you sometimes get a dominant team, which when you are dealing with 1/10ths of second is always likely. And sometimes you get a dominant driver. And like now when you get an excellent driver in the best car then it is dull.

I got a now tv pass for one month for £20. This allowed me to watch the england games in the UEFA Nations league, the euro U21 cup, the cricket world cup and Canada, France and Austria GP's. And the best sport I have watched is the Formula E, Womens world cup and yesterdays tennis. I must cancel that Now TV subscription!

It is sad to watch my old team, Williams, tugging around at the back.


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## vinn

scottswatches said:


> Unfortunately you sometimes get a dominant team, which when you are dealing with 1/10ths of second is always likely. And sometimes you get a dominant driver. And like now when you get an excellent driver in the best car then it is dull.
> 
> I got a now tv pass for one month for £20. This allowed me to watch the england games in the UEFA Nations league, the euro U21 cup, the cricket world cup and Canada, France and Austria GP's. And the best sport I have watched is the Formula E, Womens world cup and yesterdays tennis. I must cancel that Now TV subscription!
> 
> It is sad to watch my old team, Williams, tugging around at the back.


 TV not a friend of the retired guys - radio is good while working on a watch. vin


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## scottswatches

vinn said:


> TV not a friend of the retired guys - radio is good while working on a watch. vin


 I tried that listening to boxing once. That was not a good combination!


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## JoT

scottswatches said:


> Unfortunately you sometimes get a dominant team, which when you are dealing with 1/10ths of second is always likely. And sometimes you get a dominant driver. And like now when you get an excellent driver in the best car then it is dull.
> 
> I got a now tv pass for one month for £20. This allowed me to watch the england games in the UEFA Nations league, the euro U21 cup, the cricket world cup and Canada, France and Austria GP's. And the best sport I have watched is the *Formula E*, Womens world cup and yesterdays tennis. I must cancel that Now TV subscription!
> 
> It is sad to watch my old team, Williams, tugging around at the back.


 I gave Formula E a watch, the combination of banal commentary and the constant weeeeeeeweeeeweeeeEEEeeeeeEEEEEeeeeeweeeeeEEeeeee of the motors drove me mad! :laughing2dw:


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## rhaythorne

Scalextric is much more fun than Formula E!


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## scottswatches

I quite like the bump and bash, and the power boost laps add some strategy that wasn't there a year or so ago

Although it can get a bit silly - watch the start of the race from Bern last week


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## DJJazzyJeff

Bit of a thread resurrection- apologies!!

I'm not an avid F1 fan, but something I read left me intrigued and I wonder if anyone can enlighten me.

After the last GP in Silverstone, Pirelli came under fire for the tyre failures (they should actually factor this into every race to increase the excitement), but after they reviewed, they're saying they still intend to send soft compound tyres, instead of mediums to Silverstone for the next GP. So... why do Pirelli get to choose what tyre compounds they use, and why can't they supply all compounds, with each team only being allowed to use 2 of them for instance??


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## WickerBill

DJJazzyJeff said:


> Bit of a thread resurrection- apologies!!
> 
> I'm not an avid F1 fan, but something I read left me intrigued and I wonder if anyone can enlighten me.
> 
> After the last GP in Silverstone, Pirelli came under fire for the tyre failures (they should actually factor this into every race to increase the excitement), but after they reviewed, they're saying they still intend to send soft compound tyres, instead of mediums to Silverstone for the next GP. So... why do Pirelli get to choose what tyre compounds they use, and why can't they supply all compounds, with each team only being allowed to use 2 of them for instance??


 Pirelli have 5 tyre compounds at the start of the season. They usually select 3 compounds depending on the circuit, so harder tyres for more abrasive or hotter countries.

This year is a little different with double header races, F1 and the teams voted to change the tyre compounds for the second race of a double header to make the second weekend more interesting...otherwise teams would just skip the practice sessions and save engine parts.

Problem is they only discovered the issue after last weekend but it's too late now, the tyres are manufactured and have been shipped to the circuit from Italy with no time to make new harder tyres, so they are stuck with what they have.

What Pirelli can, and always do though is mandate the maximum amount of laps their tyres will do safely and the minimum tyre pressure/ maximum camber angle so their tyres can operate safely.

i expect them to increase the tyre pressures and decrease the number of laps allowed next weekend, forcing 2/3 stop races


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## DJJazzyJeff

Thanks @WickerBill, that makes sense now.


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## WickerBill

No problem! It could be an interesting one this weekend, with the increased temperatures, red bull could be strong


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## JoT

Not a fan of modern F1 racing even though I do admire the engineering but found these interesting, F1 cars I saw at Mercedes-Benz World on Friday


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## Q.Lotte

My father-in-law's F1 car is now in a museum in Toronto










He also had a special Lambo made to order for him

[IMG alt="VIN: Walter Wolf's Lamborghini Countach LP400 Speciale chassis 1120202 - Supercar Nostalgia" data-ratio="75.00"]https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5caed8960cf57d49530e8c60/1632466971245-M4MDRYE52XIIRFK8WLPL/art-vin-lamborghinicountach1120202a.jpg[/IMG]

Unfortunately, we have to make do with a Scalextric copy of the WR5

http://www.scalextric-car.co.uk/Cars/C106_Walter_Wolf/C106_Walter_Wolf_RHS.jpg


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## chas g

Better to watch Caterham Academy racing. 4 abreast at Paddock Hill bend. Plenty of overtaking, nudging, crashes and bits flying off.


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