# Dating Russian Watches



## Big Sal (Sep 26, 2005)

Is it possible to date a Pobeda, Raketa or a Vostok based on the serial number on the movement. Some Pobedas have the month and year on them like 3-57 or 2-55 for example and that is obvious but I would love to be able to more accurately date my vintage Russian watches that are not dated. I particularly like the 50's look. Thanks to all for a very interesting forum. Big Sal


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Welcome to the forum Sal









Do Vostok and Raketa movements have serial numbers?







Apart from the calibre number and the maker's mark I don't recall seeing an actual serial number; but perhaps I wasn't looking closely enough or maybe they only appear on ealrier models.

Most people seem to date Vostoks to the nearest decade by their design, bezel style and dial markings.


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

When I dating Russians I tend to go for







shape, height and hair colour.









Durrrrrrrrr


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

USEDMODEL said:


> When I dating Russians I tend to go for
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You`re getting as bad as that Jason


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

rhaythorne said:


> Welcome to the forum Sal
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Sorry about going off topic in that last post Sal, anyway like Rich I wasn`t aware it was possible to date Russian movements if you do find an accurate method let us know


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## USEDMODEL (Mar 26, 2005)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> USEDMODEL said:
> 
> 
> > When I dating Russians I tend to go forÂ
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sorry mach
















sorry sal


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## Polo_Step (Aug 24, 2005)

rhaythorne said:


> Most people seem to date Vostoks to the nearest decade by their design, bezel style and dial markings.
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I've seen some very...um..._anachronistic_ features lately on nominally new or very recent watches, such as encountering what I thought was a very old backplate design (seascape) on a new-production Vostok on one of the commercial Russian watch sites in my web-wanderings. What that's all about, I dunno. Factory Frankentickers? I have this mental image of alcoholically-misplaced boxes of parts constantly turning up in odd places in the factory and being restored to the production line after a decade or two.

Related to this, are the markings, "SU" and "RU" on Russian movements country of origin stamps (and at least notionally dating guideposts), or what? Thanks for any clarification on this.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

Polo_Step said:



> Related to this, are the markings, "SU" and "RU" on Russian movements country of origin stamps (and at least notionally dating guideposts), or what? Thanks for any clarification on this.


I'm glad someone else spotted this as I've been wondering about it for ages. I always had a suspicion that "SU" might mean Soviet Union. I haven't seen one with "RU" but, logically, this could mean Russia and thus might just be useful for determining pre/post 1992 movements.

However, to scupper that theory I can tell you that I've owned two, very modern, Raketa mechanical watches. One had a terribly rough looking movement with no markings other than the calibre and the Raketa mark. The movement in the other watch appears to be far superior and has an SU mark. Now, maybe the latter is a NOS movement in a modern watch, but maybe SU and RU mean something else entirely









Then again, Raketa seem to still get away with marking their dials "Made in CCCP" so maybe they do a similar thing with their movements.


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## Polo_Step (Aug 24, 2005)

rhaythorne said:


> Polo_Step said:
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Well then, I guess we're back at my misplaced parts hypothesis.

I was examining my recent Molniya 3602 variants, both of which were made in late 2004, and one had "RU" on the train bridge and the other one had "SU" on the train bridge.

Curiously, the 15-Jewel one with the "RU" had the reproduction CCCP face, while the 18-Jewel one one with no such pretenses (aside from modestly only claiming 15 jewels on the face) had "SU" on it. To add to the mystery, the "SU" was stamped on a steel bridge in an otherwise all-brass (or bronze or whatever it is) movement.

One wonders if there isn't an element of recycling going on.


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## dtoddmiller (Sep 29, 2005)

I thought Russian law made it illegal to mark post-Soviet watches with the "CCCP" label.

But, in Russia, law enforcement is, ummm, lax.


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## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

dtoddmiller said:



> I thought Russian law made it illegal to mark post-Soviet watches with the "CCCP" label.
> 
> But, in Russia, law enforcement is, ummm, lax.


Yes, I'd read that somewhere too. I don't know if it's actually true or not though. Perhaps there's some loophole being exploited, or, as you say, perhaps it's just not being enforced? Who knows?

Polo_Step said:



> Curiously, the 15-Jewel one with the "RU" had the reproduction CCCP face, while the 18-Jewel one one with no such pretenses (aside from modestly only claiming 15 jewels on the face) had "SU" on it. To add to the mystery, the "SU" was stamped on a steel bridge in an otherwise all-brass (or bronze or whatever it is) movement.


Yes







My two Raketa's were similarly schizo! The SU marked movement is in a watch which refers to Russia on the dial, whilst the other has a dial referring to CCCP, although it's obviously modern









All good fun though isn't it


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## raketakat (Sep 24, 2003)

It is fun Rich







.

I wonder where all the production records are for Russian brands







?

Probably still secret







.

Still - I don't envy the Omega and Seiko owners with their reasonably transparent model/serial numbers







.


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## Polo_Step (Aug 24, 2005)

raketakat said:


> ...reasonably transparent model/serial numbers
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It seems that the Great Molniya Odometer recently rolled over back to 000001 miles and the serial numbers on 3602s are preceded with zeroes. Or...these are all just arbitrary anyway.

I'm betting on the latter.


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## Xantiagib (Apr 22, 2005)

If you know the dates of the serial numbers issued - and you roughly know by the design or logo on the movement or whatever then you can quite acurately date any russian watch.

Big problem is hardly no one has any record of dates matching serial numbers.

Except in the case of old Strelas where the serial number ranges and corresponding years are well known - thats because only just under 100,000 were made in 20 years compared with many many more for a normal watch at that time


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## Polo_Step (Aug 24, 2005)

Xantiagib said:


> If you know the dates of the serial numbers issued - and you roughly know by the design or logo on the movement or whatever then you can quite acurately date any russian watch.
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I have my doubts about the Molniyas; the two 3602 movements I had were made only a couple of months apart yet had wildly differing serial numbers: 753440 & 002817. I don't see how these could be representative of a coherent sequential numbering and dating system.

I think it's reasonable to assume that in this case, they stamp great loads of train bridges at some point and they just get used as they're found, or recycled, or whatever.


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## Polo_Step (Aug 24, 2005)

Polo_Step said:


> I think it's reasonable to assume that in this case, they stamp great loads of train bridges at some point
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Wait, I gotta correct myself here...the serial number are on the barrel bridges, the other markings are on the train bridges. I was still thinking about the "RU"/"SU" thingy.










Note on the 15-Jewel 3602 above, the SU business and the logo is missing from the train bridge.

BTW, of my last wad of watches, the 18-Jewel Molniya keeps the best time of all the examples, and they're all within spec.


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