# Cartier Santos Advice Please?



## Mr Frisbee (Sep 21, 2012)

Hi all,

Hope someone can help with this "argument" going on at Cartier at the moment.

In a nutshell...

I bought a used (and apparently fully restored and serviced, with all paperwork and guarantees etc) 8 year old Cartier Santos Galbee Automatic as pictured below. It was from Watchfinder.co.uk who appear pretty reliable.

After 2 years the enamel face as started to turn brown. It was returned to watchfinder who were trying to assist and find out why this had happened. It passed their pressure test so was sent to Cartier who stripped the watch (without first pressure testing) and they have said it needs a full service (Â£320), new dial (Â£170) and new hands (Â£38). I have argued that that dial and hands should be replaced under the lifetime warranty (against manufacturing defects) as the watch was fully serviced by them in 2007 (just over 5 years ago) and pressure tested 2 years ago (prior to my purchase, by Watchfinder) and again last week (prior to sending it to them) so there is no indication of the problem being water damage.

They claim that there is NO OTHER REASON that the face could go like this so it must be water damage, but they cannot prove it as they did not test it before opening it up.

they are refusing to budge on this position and I am obviously angry with both Watchfinder and Cartier. Watchfinder sold the watch as "Fully restored and serviced" but it had not been back to Cartier for the service prior to my purchase. Knowing that Cartier will not supply any parts at all to third parties, if Watchfinder did service the watch in 2009, there is no way that they could have replaced the seals at that time as they would not have them - so they may have misled me too.

Not sure what the next step is here as Cartier are even arguing that the pressure tests that I had done were not done with the same machines they use so they must be invalid too.

All ridiculous but I am not sure how to push this further or get a reasonably priced repair done.

I know Cartier are a rip off for this sort of thing, but feel they are taking advantage now.

Any advice most welcome.

Thanks,

Charles.


----------



## gaz64 (May 5, 2009)

What did you run over it with? Looks all scratched up at the bottom of the pic


----------



## Mr Frisbee (Sep 21, 2012)

Nothing! Wife is not the most delicate of people though - this is used as an every day watch and the picture makes those look a lost worse than they really are. A simple valet fixes most of that though.


----------



## rossi46 (Sep 22, 2011)

I would guess your issue is with watchfinder as it was obviously not "Fully restored and serviced" when you purchased it, how could it be when watchfinder cannot source the parts !!!


----------



## Mr Frisbee (Sep 21, 2012)

Yes, Watchfinder are probably responsible, it just would have been easier had Cartier been more helpful I guess.

Anyway, the investigation continues (slowly).


----------



## Omegamaniac (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm afraid Cartier won't be too helpful as the watch wasn't purchased new from one of their AD's. As far as they're concerned its a watch that is a few years old and hasn't been through their workshop in the last 3 years or so, so it's not their problem. Also the seals on the watch are not that great as the watch is only water resistant to 3-5 atms, and after 2 years are overdue for replacement, hence the moisture entry. Lady's are prone to spraying all sorts of chemicals on themselves and these can attack the rubber seals.

This is the problem of buying used watches from any where, some one can say it's been fully restored, but unless you have paperwork to support it from the workshop, you will never know for sure. Its like buying a used 8 year old car and expecting the main dealer to put right any faults caused by a back street garage.

Sorry to be so negative, but 28 years dealing with watch companies has lead me to be a realist in these matters


----------



## Mr Frisbee (Sep 21, 2012)

Well, I certainly learned something new today! I am sure you guys know this, but I cannot imagine anyone on the street does (unless they are a watch collector etc), but "water-resistant to 30m" really just means the watch is splash proof and it should not be used in the shower or swimming pool. How on earth can 30 metres (or 3 bar etc) be considered (to a normal person) just splash proof?

With all the stupid rules and regulations regarding testing and EU nonsense (no use of the term waterproof) etc, how can water resistant to 30m be considered as anything other than "this watch can be submerged in water up to 30m? Not only that, but none of the paperwork supplied with the watch or on the Cartier (in this case) website alludes to this rather inadequate description.

Certainly a good case for misrepresentation under the terms of the sale of goods act.


----------



## rhaythorne (Jan 12, 2004)

The dial on your Santos just might respond to some gentle cleaning. A good independent watch maker would be able to advise you.

Discussions about quite what the various levels of "water resistance" applied to watches actually means have been going on for decades. I have one very simple rule: If it ain't a dive watch I try to not get it wet! So far this has worked brilliantly 

Funnily enough though my Cartier Tank Francaise needs a service so I think I'll see what Roy can do

*Cartier Caliber 120 / ETA 2100-1:*


----------



## Haggis (Apr 20, 2009)

What was the pressure test 30m ? That is a static pressure, if you move your hand about under water it causes an increase in pressure, as some members have said, don't do the dishes or go out in the rain with a 30m watch.


----------



## Mr Frisbee (Sep 21, 2012)

OK, well I now know what it means and to be honest, the whole 3bar / 30m definition is useless for anyone other than watchmakers or collectors.

The 200 page book that comes with the watch simply states as per the image below...










what it really should say is...

"This watch is only water resistant to ISO2281 3 bar which means that, if you have just bought the watch or the seals have just been changed, you could probably submerge the watch into a static pool of water 30 metres deep for a few seconds (so long as the water is between 18 and 24 degrees centigrade and you do not move the watch to get it to that depth). You certainly cannot swim with the watch (even in a shallow puddle) and taking a shower or bath with it is not advisable either as it would give us enough excuse to wiggle out of our water resistance claims."

I wonder why this is not closer to the description used. Perhaps because of how utterly stupid these little known specifications are. The fact is the paperwork/website/etc is misleading the public.

Anyway, thanks for the contributions, obviously we know how to look after the watch now - I just do not know why people are not made aware of this when they purchase the watch. At least my Bell & Ross is 200m so I can sweat :sweatdrop: near the watch if I want or even go into a humid sauna for a few minutes without worrying, but when I swim I should probably only use my right arm in case I move it too fast to increase the water pressure.


----------



## Mr Frisbee (Sep 21, 2012)

End of the story is that Watchfinder finally agreed to have the watch restored (new face/hands/seals etc) by Cartier (as it should have been prior to my purchase).

Obviously there will be no swimming with the watch no matter how misleading the brochures are (Cartier even sell a special solution that they recommend you use after swimming with the watch so there is no way they can claim that there watches should not be swum in if they are water resistant as they only sell watches to 3atm).


----------



## tall_tim (Jul 29, 2009)

Charles Marks said:


> End of the story is that Watchfinder finally agreed to have the watch restored (new face/hands/seals etc) by Cartier (as it should have been prior to my purchase).
> 
> Obviously there will be no swimming with the watch no matter how misleading the brochures are (Cartier even sell a special solution that they recommend you use after swimming with the watch so there is no way they can claim that there watches should not be swum in if they are water resistant as they only sell watches to 3atm).


Good result and persistence pays off. Well done and don't forget pics when it is returned!


----------



## Mr Frisbee (Sep 21, 2012)

Got it back this morning - looks stunning - this is what it should look like (being used a with a bit more care now). Can you spot the difference!!?.


----------



## Mr Frisbee (Sep 21, 2012)

Belated update to this. So, Â£600 (paid by the original seller) and 6 weeks at Cartier. Worn the watch about 6 times and now the minute hand is lose and moves back and forward if you tap the watch.

Of course, it has gone back, but I am total fed up with the quality of both the watches and the service from Cartier.

May well swap it for a Swatch.


----------



## Haggis (Apr 20, 2009)

I can understand your disapointment, what a pain. Cartier should sort this out without any real hastle.

Your watch reminds me of this little watch I picked up in the sale for Â£26, it is fully waterproof for swimming and diving Dolphin standard. Crazy but perhaps if you like this type of design you could pick one up for day to day usage. The model is GB03367/01


----------



## Koing (Dec 30, 2012)

Mr Frisbee said:


> Belated update to this. So, Â£600 (paid by the original seller) and 6 weeks at Cartier. Worn the watch about 6 times and now the minute hand is lose and moves back and forward if you tap the watch.
> 
> Of course, it has gone back, but I am total fed up with the quality of both the watches and the service from Cartier.
> 
> May well swap it for a Swatch.


Thanks for the update and sorry to hear about your watch problems 

The water ratings thing is a joke. How can you get the watch to 30m depth without moving it?! Teleport it there and teleport it back?

Koing


----------



## jonbkk (Jan 6, 2013)

I'm quite surprises Cartier has been so slack and you have every right to be upset about it.

haggis, I really like that Rotary.


----------



## Mr Frisbee (Sep 21, 2012)

Haggis said:


> I can understand your disapointment, what a pain. Cartier should sort this out without any real hastle.
> 
> Your watch reminds me of this little watch I picked up in the sale for Â£26, it is fully waterproof for swimming and diving Dolphin standard. Crazy but perhaps if you like this type of design you could pick one up for day to day usage. The model is GB03367/01


Certainly a thought. There is even an all steel version which is even closer. Still think it would be nice for Mrs M to have a "nice" watch. She has an Ebel for day to day - the "other" watch would be worn about 30% of the time perhaps.

What is the weight/feel of the watch in hand?

Thanks,


----------



## mel (Dec 6, 2006)

Just because something is labelled Cartier doesn't automatically mean "GREAT!"









It's obviously genuine, or they wouldn't have serviced it at all, but like in LIDL, there's loads of their (LIDL's) own brand stuff as good as, and in some instances better than the well known branded goods, especially the Frikadella's :tongue2: .

Loads of watches are as good as or better than Cartier branded items, but don't carry the kudos!

(here we go, the ROLEX argument but substiute "CARTIER" for Rolex - - it's a good job Faberge isn't putting out Vostok's signed as Faberge :lol: )


----------



## Haggis (Apr 20, 2009)

Mr Frisbee said:


> Haggis said:
> 
> 
> > I can understand your disapointment, what a pain. Cartier should sort this out without any real hastle.
> ...


Weight ? It has a feel of weight as it is stainless steel, 28mm x 38 mm x 7mm thick nice quality solid link bracelet, back plate has 4 screws for access, long bracelet fits 8.25 inch and a little. Feels quality. Great little watch.

model GB03367/01


----------



## Mr Frisbee (Sep 21, 2012)

For those vaguely interested (or bored), the saga continues and you wont believe this...

The watch went back to Cartier on 3rd Jan (this is now the third time they have had the watch in 4 months), on 22nd Jan Cartier stated that it needed another week to go through QC. Someone finally went to collect it on Friday just gone (25th Jan) - looked at it and tapped the face to find *THE HANDS STILL LOSE*!!!!!!!! Remember, this was a Â£600 repair with new face, new hands and mechanical restoration.

They want it for another three weeks now and I don't want to see it ever again.

I want the word Cartier erased from my mind and the mind of anyone else I come across too. Now have to work out how to get rid of the watch and find something that works.

To be honest I knew this sort of thing would happen when I bought the watch, however, it was to replace one that my wife lost when she was mugged 14 years ago whilst walking our then 6 month old baby home. I just feel that we are now being mugged once more, this time by Cartier.


----------

