# Any Advice Welcomed



## Mr Whimpy (Jan 14, 2012)

Hi Peeps i started a thread in the wrong section i think and it should have been here as a couple of watches are russian or so i believe .

i have been thinking of buying a cheaper watch as some may have read over on elec/auto watches but have found myself edging back to a few lovely classics that i have spotted on here and done a load of viewing via the net.

i have spotted 4 brands that i would like opinions on please if at all possible, these are as follows

Fortis, Oriosa, Strela, Maktanm or Maktime

Now all the ones i like the look of are chrono's and a few came up as triple date and a russian moon jobo

money wise i seem to be finding them in and around the 200-400 bracket depending on condition and movements

what can you guys/gals tell me and what advice can you please give as i would really like to own one and think they fit exactly what im looking for in a classic watch..

cheers


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Hi,

Fortis is Swiss, Maktime is Russian and Strela is both a brand a name of a particular watch. So let me go by parts...

Russian chronograph movements are based on a single movement, the Poljot 3133. This movement is an upgrade of the original Swiss Valjoux 7733, the Russian having a higher beat, more jewels and a few improvements here and there.

The 3133 can be had with added complications like moonphase or 24h dials or even on a stripped down version where all the chrono parts are taken away (3105). So all these 3133 based movements are sometimes referred as 31xx. It's a highly regarded movement by sturdiness, accuracy and durability.

Poljot ceased to exist on the early 90s and several brands were formed from within the Poljot people. Maktime is a brand that bought the rights and tooling for production of 31xx and they have been doing them for their own branded watches as to all the other brands that use the 31xx (Aviator, Orion, Sturmankie, Buran, Junkers, Zeppelin, etc).

Strela was a USSR Air Force chronoghraph originally fitted with a Swiss Venus 3107. It's not the name of the brand but the name of the model. The Air Force Venus 3107 was replaced on the 70's by the Sturmanskie 3133 (to be exact, the 3133 appeared 1 year earlier as a Navy model and the year after as a 31659 - a 3133 with hacking capability).

On the 90s until now, the legendary Strela was reissued by several brands, always using the 3133 movement. Depending on its age and origin, it can be a 3133 still made by Poljot or made by Maktime (it's the same movement though.) There is a brand called Strela that has a lot of Strela reissued watches. It belongs to a Russian that moved to Germany long ago: Juri Levemberg. As far as I know, the movements on those watches are Russian 3133s (there aren't Chinese copies of these as some rumors state - the Chinese have a very good and similar movement - the Seagull ST19). Dials, cases and assembly are probably done in Poland.

There is a link between Fortis and Poljot due to a stupid move of a German importer of the Poljot. When he got the Poljot Aviator I, he advertized it as being "the exact same thing as a Fortis" and Fortis took issue with that. A law suit followed such a move and the German courts ruled in favor of Fortis. What came out of that was that the Poljot Aviator I couldn't be sold on Germany and Austria. Switzerland followed that rule, probably to protect a home brand.

The Russians were pretty upset with the importer but there was no official distributor or export rules on the Russian side. They long fixed that and that's why some Russian watch sellers no longer have access to some brands.

Anyway, prices on these 31xx movements range mostly because of quality of finish and, probably, marketing. A â‚¬200 Poljot 3133 will have the exact same movement as a â‚¬700 Buran. The rest will be very different but gut-wise, they are the same.

Hope that helps and welcome to :rltb:


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## Mr Whimpy (Jan 14, 2012)

That is a fountain of knowledge :notworthy: thank you very much for clearing that up for me

I have seen a few of these watches for sale and i do like them very much and from your explanation the movement seems to be a very trustworthy one, i have of course been looking primarily at swiss movements as most people do but just happened across some of these chrono's and thought they look mighty good and the jeweled movement inside looked so well done hence the interest.

i also like the idea of not going down the normal route of a swiss movement watch on my first purchase even though i probably will as they are the dominant type but who says you cant have both right 

And for a quick update i just purchased a Buran with the said 3133 movement as it was at a good price and is not a new watch but looks as though its from the late 80's and is a chronograph too so happy days and fingers crossed, now where is that postman already 

When it arrives i will take a few snaps and post them up on here as my first ever in depth watch purchase

cheers and thanks again


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

You probably got one of these?










They are great watches and worth every penny even if bought new. They are branded as Buran but it's not still the Buran I was talking about. They were made around the final days of Poljot by people that dealt with exports. They then became Volmax which is a company that used to make and sell watches under 3 different brand names: Aviator, Sturmanskie and Buran. Buran was latter sold to the Swiss and I have no idea if they still exist.

The Volmax Burans are usually pretty expensive, with prices around â‚¬500 but can reach over â‚¬1500 when fitted with Swiss auto chronograph movements.


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## Mr Whimpy (Jan 14, 2012)

That's great news as the one I have purchased is near identical to the one you have pictured, the only difference being the machined edge on the one I purchased is sharper and not rounded and looks like it is about 20 - 30 years old. The seller stated it had the 3133 movement but that will all come to light once it arrives

I can't wait for it to arrive now

Can you by any chance tell me if you know what size strap I would need to fit this watch as it needs a new one and also I will buy one of those deployment clasps too


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

If it's a chrono, it's a 3133, there's no other Russian chrono movement. The lugs are 20mm but the deployment clasp depends on the strap you end up buying. If it's a parallel strap, that means that it starts with 20mm at the lugs and ends at the same 20mm at the end. So the buckle would be 20mm width and that's the size of the clasp you need to get. But usually the straps taper a bit, a 20mm strap usually tapers to 18mm. So 18mm is the width of the buckle and that's the size you need for the clasp.

Mind you that those Burans are a bit small (38mm cases I think) and a deployment clasp is a thick thing, so you you should probably get a strap that tapers to 18mm (so 18mm clasp) or you'll end up with a clasp almost as big as the watch!

Anyway, you'll love your Buran! I have something based on that model, it's a commemorative edition of the Kirova, basically WWII Tutimas made in Russia after the Soviets shipped the German factory to Moscow:










More details and photos here: http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=70113


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## Mr Whimpy (Jan 14, 2012)

Very nice indeed and I have seen one of those on the net but wasn't sure what one to buy.

Now here's a Funny thing, that link has the watch I just purchased on it owned by shadowninja or at least I believe it is as the chap I won the watch from also lives in surrey so it must be the one.

As I'm a newbie here I can't contact him via pm or message probably to prevent new users buying or selling till they earn the right, would it be possible if someone could contact him for me as I would like the full low down on the watch of poss as its always nice to know what you have purchased

Cheers again for all your help so far

Joe


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Might not be him and he might not know much about it, some of us flip watches like the world is going to end this very year (which is obviously going to). Anyway, I'll make him aware of this thread.

Cheers!


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## Mr Whimpy (Jan 14, 2012)

Cheers and yep possibly not him who sold it but worth a shot, I know what it's like selling and buying things I've been a member of many forums for a few hobbies 

Cheers again


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## William_Wilson (May 21, 2007)

This one is Shadowninja's.










Later,

William


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## shadowninja (Apr 14, 2009)

Hi

What's the problem? I still own that watch (see William's picture) and have not put it up for sale anywhere as I like the design too much.

I may have used other pics off the net in the past before taking a decent pic of my watch if that's what is causing confusion?

Let me know.

-Darren

Edit: wait a sec. Has someone burgled my house and only stolen that particular watch??


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

William_Wilson said:


> This one is Shadowninja's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Man... I really like those and it's a peach on that bracelet... maybe I should.... :wallbash:


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## shadowninja (Apr 14, 2009)

The bracelet isn't standard. It's from a dead Ben Sherman.


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Fits right in though!


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## shadowninja (Apr 14, 2009)

Yeah, tis a pretty good fit!


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## Mr Whimpy (Jan 14, 2012)

Thanks for the confirmation that you still own it

The reason i asked was that i have just purchased one that looks identical in condition from a seller in surrey and when i looked at the link i saw yours and that you live in surrey also,

so like columbo i put 9 & 4 together and presto i was wrong  :thumbup:

cheers everyone for your help you all seem a great bunch with loads of help

im still waiting on that postman to turn up :wink2:

Joe


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

Oh, BTW... don't get a very thick strap if you are planning to use a deployment clasp. Something like an Hirsh Liberty is about 4mm thick and a deployment clasp limit is (I think) 3.5mm.


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## Mr Whimpy (Jan 14, 2012)

Good advice thanks im actually looking at the at the moment but finding it hard to see the one i like with the 18mm end, i keep finding 20mm or 16mm

i will find one in the next hour after a cup of tea :yes:

Quick edit found one including strap :thumbup:


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

We can't post links but.... cof....watch-band-center....cof 

You'll find tons and tons of straps there. The hard part is to actually choose one!


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## Mr Whimpy (Jan 14, 2012)

Thanks :icon16:


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## shadowninja (Apr 14, 2009)

Looks great on... dare I say it... a Nato. Don't have any pics with that set up, though.


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## Kutusov (Apr 19, 2010)

shadowninja said:


> Looks great on... dare I say it... a Nato. Don't have any pics with that set up, though.


A what???? rc: rc: rc:


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## Mr Whimpy (Jan 14, 2012)

completed's :icon16:


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## shadowninja (Apr 14, 2009)

Kutusov said:


> shadowninja said:
> 
> 
> > Looks great on... dare I say it... a Nato. Don't have any pics with that set up, though.
> ...


When I am busy pretending to be an assassin of the night, I don't want a blingy bracelet reflecting light at every opportunity. If you had assassin kids, you'd understand.


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