# Martial Arts



## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Anyone here into Martial arts.

Whats a good one to learn for someone just interested in self defence.

At my age I'm not interested in leaping about and doing somersault kicks but I would like to learn something practical. Real world skills if you like.

At 5"11 and 13st I'm an average size.

Someone has suggested to me "Krav-Maga" which is an Israeli method and is taught to the FBI and some other Government agencies.

I think arts like Karate are fine if your using it up against someone with the same discipline but in the real world people grab, hold and push and are invariably much bigger than you.

Any ideas


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Andy:

Before a back problem intervened I tried Krav-Maga. The lessons were taken by the man who leads the Krav Maga organisation in the UK and he travels a lot to train forces elsewhere.

It is a really convincing practical self defence skill - they immediately show you things like defending yourself if attacked from behind at a cash machine etc.

It requires a basic level of fitness, I'd say, to make the best of it. I found it quite a hard workout - if you were to combine your KM classes with another method of training / getting supple you would end up one fit dude.

You would also end up very difficult to tackle in a difficult situation - the class leader is a seriously formidable man. His wife would do you some serious damage too.

Si


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

I recommend it - if you want I'll try and hunt out the contact details. The classes were held in North London but he does classes elsewhere now I think.

This is the only form of self defence training I have ever thought was convincing.


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Cheers Si

This is what I too have been led to believe.

Could you hunt for those details.


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Here is the website, it should give you all the info. They also advertise in the Fitness bit of Time Out - Time Out did an article about it a year or so ago, very positive review.

The person I mentioned is Alwyn Dixon, he is, I was led to believe, the one to be taught by, esp as you live in London. I know they are Stevenage based but they do classes in Central London somewhere.

Krav Maga


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Si

That link didn't work for me.

Could you try it again.

I'm really interested.


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Try this


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Cheers Si.

I am now in touch with Alwyn Dixon and will be attending an induction course soon.


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Hi Andy

Is that a 2 day niduction course? If so I attended that. It is a great introduction but if you have time beforehand I would get into some stretching esp of the hamstrings as you will do a lot of forceful kicks and punches which will leaqve you very sore if you are not fairly fit / supple!

It is like many skills - you may learn it well to start with but if you do not use the skills you will forget - so to get the best out of this you will need to carry on with it.

It is a great set of skills - you learn how to use your peripheral vision etc, you learn how to avoid trouble in the first place.

It really is very well thought out so I hope you enjoy it.

Si


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## Sargon (Feb 24, 2003)

I believe Judo is one of the least stressfull of the martial arts. It mostly utilizes the opponents weight and force against him.


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## raketakat (Sep 24, 2003)

Andy

Hope you're not going to use these newly acquired skills on the motorists who drive up your arse














.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

Hi Andy,

I've studied a few over the years. I found that different martial arts suit diffrent situations in reality, Judo probably being the least effective in a genuine hostile situation ( sorry Sargon, no offence to your post intended ). One of the most effective is an offshoot of Kung Foo, called San Soo, quick, effective and to the point. Win Chung is also very effective - both of the above can be hard to find with regard to available classed though. Certain aspects of Aikido are very effective in real situations. People take too much notice of what they see in films with regard to martial arts - a hardened street fighter can still give a martial artist a hard time, EXCEPT against CERTAIN moves and techniques. For real world self defense I would choose Kung Foo San Soo, or Win Chung. The staged fights in films are obviously for entertainment - for example, a full powered side kick delivered correctly can incapacitate your opponent immediately, NOT ten side kicks along with other moves you see in the films. Also, should you decide to train and then find yourself in a conflict situation, when you carry out a move, you MUST be totally commited and confident when doing so for maximum effect.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

....Sorry,

Just to mention I have no experience of the Krav Maga system, it may be very good. Interestingly though, it seems it was founded in Slovakia, which is where my wife is from!! - more useless information.........


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

I acheived a Black belt (1st dan) grade in Ju-jitsu - the 'Gentle Art' many years ago.

But I had respect for classical Aikido after seeing and Aikido master disarm and disable all opponents in a tournament, including me.

I have a problem with simply disarming an opponent, the bugger can get up again. And screw you up. I did.... and went down again.

My advice, fight dirty. That's what street fighter's do.

Aikido with some embelishments is very capable. Aikido Sensei will not teach the true art to anyone. There are no offensive moves in Aikido? Bugger off!

I've seen them, but not in modern Aikido









That I was shown


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## Sargon (Feb 24, 2003)

No offense taken Gary, I was just thinking of the least stressfull, least physical martial art.


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

I take Garys point about choreographed martial arts scenes. A great example is the recent Matrix films.

You have to marvel at the dexterity displayed in the fight scenes but you always wonder how such teqniques would stand up to someone like Roy Shaw and other similar, hardened bare knuckle fighters.

I think the most convincing Holywood fighter is Steven Segal. I do not know what he's using but I always think he looks VERY dangerous in his fight scenes.


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## phlogistician (Jul 22, 2003)

Garry said:


> ...in reality, Judo probably being the least effective in a genuine hostile situation ...
> 
> ... One of the most effective is an offshoot of Kung Foo, called San Soo, quick, effective and to the point. Win Chung is also very effective - ...


 Disagree about Judo, I did Judo for four years, and grappling and groundfighting techniques are a must for street defense, and not taught in many martial arts. Brawls often end up on the floor, and if your art only teaches kicking and punching, what are you going to do down there? Also, locking techniques look less offensive than a punch, so if someone gives you an arm in a fight, and you take it and lock it, you _look_ like you are defending yourself, and it will be noted by witnesses and stand you in better stead when the plod arrive. You'll be harder to knock over if you have studied Judo, and hopefully won't end up prone being kicked in the abdomen by some yobbo either.

I agree on the Kung Fu though, a mate of mine just qualified as an instructor and teaches me. Techniques are no nonsense (In Wing Tsun anyway, some animal forms etc in Wing Chung seem a bit too flowery for my taste) and effective.

I don't think one martial art on it's own is of much use. For instance, Wing Tsun has no groundfighting techniques, so my instructor pal gets private groundfighting lessons from an MMA trainer who fights in UFC. And I try to throw him when I get the chance, of course. So I'd say, learn Judo, or Jiu Jitsu, and Kung Fu (WT, or JKD). I've done some of each, and some Karate. Karate is useless. I've sparred with Karateka and they are completely buggered once you've grasped one of their arms. They have little in the way of close quarter technique.

Btw, Andy, Steven Segal is a Kung Fu exponent, and considered pretty handy. The techniques he uses often in films is the 'Chi Sau' or 'sticking hands', a Kung Fu method of blocking and attack.

I'll give the Krav Maga a look. Always looking for a new technique to play with, anything to give my pal a surprise!


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

Hello Phlog,

I agree about the grappling, but it did not really spring to mind because I've done other forms of self defense covering this, so good point. I agree about segal, handy guy, apparently he was a real CIA agent before getting into acting. I like his syle, not purely Kung Foo though, has elements of others. I think it's always best to study at least a couple of martial arts. The main reason I commented about Judo was because several years ago at a nightclub I saw a guy who was known to be profficient in it wiped out in less than 30 seconds by a local hardnut streetfighter. I remain convinced it's the least effective in most hostile situations ( on it's own ), but very usefull if combined with another.

Cheers


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## scottishcammy (Jul 11, 2003)

I always find a quick spurt of the old CS spray does the trick myself!


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

Let us know what you think of the KM induction Andy. I am certain you will like it - it is really practically based, and deals with breaking out oh certain holds, ground fighting etc.

But another aspect of it it awareness, peripheral vision, avoidance.

I got a serious kicking some years ago in Belfast (wrong place, wrong time, just walking along the road, random attack). No amount of martial art would have done me good because the last thing I remember was a fist appearing from my right side.

KM teaches you how to use your peripheral vision and to maintain alertness.


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## 036 (Feb 27, 2003)

I should clarify that a bit: the first thing I was aware of was a fist appearing from my right...


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

Andy,

Let us know how you get on when you start the course.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

I've done Wado, Shotokan, and Shukokai since I was 16.

I am looking seriously at Aikido, as at 55 I am looking for a smoother and more technical art that is very interesting in its defensive style. Karate is aggresive and a but rough on the joints as you get older. I want a more smooth and stylish art as an older person.

For effective defense though, get one of those expandable steel police style batons that collapse down into the handle. They are surprisingly heavy, and fit into a deepish pocket. They are excellent for defensive blocks and attack, and can be used very effectively with the addition of some learned defensive techniques. An excellent bit of kit for around Â£20/25 in black. Aimed at arms and legs they would really hurt and stop someone in their tracks, but without causing more serious bodily injuries. Gun shops etc. should have them, or target sports shops etc.


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## chrisb (Feb 26, 2003)

Griff









I thought it was an offense to be in possesion of one of those


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Not sure why it would be.

Cammy may know. For carrying its collapsed into the handle.

It's not a knife, just a piece of steel. It should only be used when all else fails, or looks like it would fail. What would happen if it was used by one person being attacked by two or three others!!


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

I suspect that the police would class it as a concealed weapon.

I must admit I feel ever more tempted to carry a weapon of some description for self defense.

OK you could get prosecuted for using it but at least you'd be alive to be prosecuted









I heard of an incident where a Woman was attacked and managed to get a small can of hairspray out of her handbag and get it into her attackers eyes, disabling him and allowing her to escape.

In terms of weaponry I suppose what you want are things like that which can't get you done

Incidentally here's a bit of useless info.

If you stick a banana in your coat pocket and pretend you have a gun you can be prosecuted for firearms offences.


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## namaste (May 8, 2003)

I have never done enough judo to wrestle an attacker and nail him to the floor, concealed weapons being ruled out and the smell of crushed bananas not being so appealing please your advice for self-defense: what brand of hairspray do you recommend, since it seems the only option left?









P


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## Roy (Feb 23, 2003)

Martial Arts ??

I'm still learning Marital Arts,


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Roy,

You have a self defense weapon on your site









The Mido bodyguard 

Mido : "Bodyguard". Personal Attack watch.

" If at any time you are faced with a threat, simply press both trigger buttons at the same time and the watch will draw the attention of everyone around you with its piercing alarm signal, which only you can switch off."

Swiss Quartz movement. 38mm All steel case. 30m Water resistant. Mineral glass. Signed strap and buckle. Brand new in box with instructions and warranty. Two dial versions available. Approx. US Retail is $400

Important : The alarm signal exceeds 100 decibels. If it is set off close to the ear it may cause permanent damage.


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

Maybe one of these is the answer.

An alarm watch


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

OO er Stan

Great minds aye


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## scottishcammy (Jul 11, 2003)

Griff, re: the baton;

yeah, that would be considered carrying an offensive weapon. It comes down to why you have it and what it's intended for.

A chef with a case of knives may be excused, or a man with an umberella may be excused, as it's not made/adapted or intended to cause harm.

Now if the guy with the umberella threatens someone with it, that changes things....it's now intended to cause harm.

If you were found to be in possession of a baton you would almost certainley be charged with carrying an offensive weapon in a public place and possibly arrested depending on the circumstances.

The reason being the baton is solely designed to cause injury to others, it's the sole reason it's made.

The courts would hammer you mate as well.

I have to make it clear though, my views are not representative of any organisation.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)

Thanks Cammy.........it's no surprise however.

It does make some people feel the law is sometimes on the side of the criminal!!!


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## scottishcammy (Jul 11, 2003)

No Comment!!!


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Andy,

The great minds of honourable men.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Griff,

Try a can of cat food in a string shopping bag. I never travel without one.

Or some two pence pieces in a sock.


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## Griff (Feb 23, 2003)




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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

I reckon a metal watch bracelet would make an excellent knuckle duster. Lots of sharp edges.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

What a violent bunch of buggers we are.


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## Sargon (Feb 24, 2003)

Running is always good too. I guess that's one good point of the car culture we have here. You'd seldom find yourself in that position. I only ever find myself out walking when I have the dog and he's protection enough.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Bugger!

Why didn't I think of that?

I'll get a dog. But perhaps the cat's won't like that. I'll feed the moggies up a little and try to make them a bit bigger.

No, trying to put a cat on a lead will only result in injury to the owner (keeper).

I know, I'll trade the cats in for an Irish Wolf Hound.

Yeeeessssss!

Foot note. Please don't tell my wife what I plan to do.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Er,

I think I'd best stick with large coins in an old sock, less hassle.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

Stan,

Socks, coins - Charles Bronson and the Vigilante film springs to mind....


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## JoT (Aug 12, 2003)

Or a DN in a sock


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## Andy (Feb 23, 2003)

The ultimate way of striking fear into an attacker is with a gun, which is why sadly, more and more people are carrying them on our streets.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Andy,

That's very


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Garry,

You old "Death Whish" fan, you!









I saw the fist one at the flicks


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

Have you seen the rest, I liked death wish 3 the best. All good stuff.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

Andy,..........



> I must admit I feel ever more tempted to carry a weapon of some description for self defense.
> 
> OK you could get prosecuted for using it but at least you'd be alive to be prosecuted
> 
> ...


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Well,

Guys, there can only be one answer to a potential attack. Overwhelming force.

Do what how you need to and ignore the consequences. If the authorities can't protect us we need to make a provision. When you have saved your own life by doing something illegal, just be glad you have a life.

I would prefer to spend my life in jail (gaol) than be dead by the hand of a "shitbag".

Sorry, Cammy.









Pennies in a sock, again.









Why does Joe public feel such despair?

Dunno, I'm just a bloke.


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## Garry (Feb 25, 2003)

Totally agree Stan......

We are in despair, not because of the normal police like cammy, they are probably as frustrated as us. It's the judicial system and sentencing that takes the piss......I could go on, but tired and need my bed - maybe I'll ramble on more tomorrow.

Night night old mate.


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## Stan (Aug 7, 2003)

Good night G,

You said it.


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## mmmara (Jul 26, 2008)

Garry said:


> Hello Phlog,
> 
> I agree about the grappling, but it did not really spring to mind because I've done other forms of self defense covering this, so good point. I agree about segal, handy guy, apparently he was a real CIA agent before getting into acting. I like his syle, not purely Kung Foo though, has elements of others. I think it's always best to study at least a couple of martial arts. The main reason I commented about Judo was because several years ago at a nightclub I saw a guy who was known to be profficient in it wiped out in less than 30 seconds by a local hardnut streetfighter. I remain convinced it's the least effective in most hostile situations ( on it's own ), but very usefull if combined with another.
> 
> Cheers


Well Guys as I rode this topic here, cause I was looking for someone practicing Jitsu(jitsufoundation.org). Anyway I think that if somebody would say Steven Segal is acctually Superman I would not be suprise. Well here is some address which should give you more info which Martial Art he was acctually studying. By the way I think that who is looking for a style that suits him best, then he has to try couple of those. By the way Aikido comes from Jiu Jitsu and many people would be suprise, that this style is acctually pretty young as Judo.(end of 19century also coming from Jiu Jitsu)


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## mmmara (Jul 26, 2008)

Btw. As I am thinking of it is topic for so much longer post.


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## ncon (Sep 14, 2005)

"My advice, fight dirty. That's what street fighter's do"

I can agree with this sentiment exactly. I did Judo for eight years and became very competant at it. I also attended the "University" of Luton, spending three years living in a rough town.

All I can say is Judo is very good for buidling strength and confidence. The groundwork is a highly underrated bonus as real fights get very dirty and are not always performed with both parties stood upright. It is always useful to know how to defend yourself/take somebody down while you yourself are lying on your back.

In addition to the fight dirty point, I also worked on a heavy punch bag at home until i could spend 15 frantic minutes pummelling it with fists, elbows, knees, heels and feet..... that is the kind of thing that reflect real fights in my opinion.

Just my tuppence


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## mmmara (Jul 26, 2008)

Well I think, that best of all is to try to avoid the problems, but it just seems to not work all the time. By the way I found out, that selfdefence in england is very difficult especially, when you are attecke by a stupid bitch who starts to should she was attacked. Then all guys are suddenly coming to help her. I had to put down three of them, while I was reversing from the confict as I was attecked again and again, no explanation who help to them I end up stopping police for help. Well luckly it end up for me with only scares on my soul as I found out ladies are no more what they used to be. That was the worse fight out of my two in Uk. Well I do not want to present myself as someone who comes with troubles, but I found usefull to say sorry a lot. But otherwise..... I would say so many people are practicing some king of martial art I just wish, they would not have to use it very often. I am training, cause as a policeman I can get across some serios sh.t, cause I never know who got a bad day.


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