# Services Watches



## diddy

hello all,

i recently bought a services watch and i am trying to find any information about the company etc. googling(?) draws a blank.

can anyone help or point me in the right direction?

here's hoping.


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## tall_tim

Is the manufacturer 'Services'? If so there is a thread in the pocket watch bit titled 'services pocket watch', that has much info. If it is not made by 'Services', who is the manufacturer?


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## Mutley

Mac is your man for this, I'm sure he'll be along when he's finished counting his pension









Post some pics of it in the mean time

Andrew


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## mach 0.0013137

How the heck did I miss this? :huh:

Ok, The Services Watch Co., Ltd was founded in Leicester by a Frank Liquorish sometime in 1926/27, it was dissolved on 26/11/2002 although I gather from Steve Burrage who used to work for the company that Services watches stopped being produced in the late 1970s.The company never actually made watches themselves instead they either had them made by other firms or bought parts in which were then assembled in the Services factory.

The earliest Services watch I`ve so far come across was made in 1927 using a 15 jewel movement made by the Fleurier Watch co., Switzerland it was fitted in an Edinburgh hallmarked silver case. However during the early years & up to WWII one of their main suppliers appears to have been Thiel Brothers of Thuringia who made complete watches (pocket & wrist) for them. At first these appear to have been marked on the dial as `German Made` changing over to `Foreign` or `Foreign Made` probably by the end of the decade. So far the German Services watches of this period I have come across seem to have simple but sturdy unjeweled pin-pallet movements. In addition to Thiel Brothers sometime in the early/mid 1930s Services appear to have begun sourcing watches from The Oris Watch Company Switzerland this arrangement continued into the 1950s, there may have been other suppliers but I can not confirm that at this time, some were marked as being `Swiss Made`others were like those from Thiel marked `Foreign`. Despite the company name I have so far not come across any indictation that Services watches were actually issued to any members of the armed forces although some `Transport` models were used by the Air Raid Precaution wardens during WWII.

Initially after the end of WWII the company continued to source from Switzerland (the Oris Watch Company), these for some reason these continued to be marked as `Foreign`. Possibly due to restrictions on importing `luxury` goods during the early 1950s Services switched to UK based suppliers such as Louis Newmark Ltd., Perfect Works,Stafford Road, Croydon, Surrey (marked Made in England`) & later by the Anglo-Celtic Watch Co.Ltd., Gurnos Works, Ystradgynlais, Wales when they are usually marked as being `Made In Gt Britain` (or similar).While most Services watches from this period used un-jewelled movements there were a few 5 Jeweled models. From around the early/mid 1950s Services begain again sourcing from abroad, their range including a chronograph using a 17 Jewel Venus movement (there had been at least two other Swiss made chronographs made in the 1930s). From the 1950s until Services ceased production they produced watches sourced or using parts from Switzerland, Britain, France, East & West Germany, Russia & Hong Kong.

NB this information is based on observation & talking to an ex-Services employee.

This post has been edited & updated as it has appeared in it`s original form elsewhere on the internet & I therefore thought it best if new information was added & obvious errors were corrected.


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## diddy

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Ok, The Services Watch Co., Ltd was founded in Leicester by a Frank Liquorish sometime in 1926/27, it was dissolved on 26/11/2002 although I gather from Steve Burrage who used to work for the company that Services watches stopped being produced in the late 1970s.The company never actually made watches themselves instead they either had them made by other firms or bought parts in which were then assembled in the Services factory.
> 
> The earliest Services watch I`ve so far come across was made in 1927 using a 15 jewel movement made by the Fleurier Watch co., Switzerland it was fitted in an Edinburgh hallmarked silver case. However during the early years & up to WWII one of their main suppliers appears to have been Thiel Brothers of Thuringia who made complete watches (pocket & wrist) for them. At first these appear to have been marked on the dial as `German Made` changing over to `Foreign` or `Foreign Made` probably by the end of the decade. So far the German Services watches of this period I have come across seem to have simple but sturdy unjeweled pin-pallet movements. In addition to Thiel Brothers sometime in the early/mid 1930s Services appear to have begun sourcing watches from The Oris Watch Company Switzerland this arrangement continued into the 1950s, there may have been other suppliers but I can not confirm that at this time, some were marked as being `Swiss Made`others were like those from Thiel marked `Foreign`. Despite the company name I have so far not come across any indictation that Services watches were actually issued to any members of the armed forces although some `Transport` models were used by the Air Raid Precaution wardens during WWII.
> 
> Initially after the end of WWII the company continued to source from Switzerland (the Oris Watch Company), these for some reason these continued to be marked as `Foreign`. Possibly due to restrictions on importing `luxury` goods during the early 1950s Services switched to UK based suppliers such as Louis Newmark Ltd., Perfect Works,Stafford Road, Croydon, Surrey (marked Made in England`) & later by the Anglo-Celtic Watch Co.Ltd., Gurnos Works, Ystradgynlais, Wales when they are usually marked as being `Made In Gt Britain` (or similar).While most Services watches from this period used un-jewelled movements there were a few 5 Jeweled models. From around the early/mid 1950s Services begain again sourcing from abroad, their range including a chronograph using a 17 Jewel Venus movement (there had been at least two other Swiss made chronographs made in the 1930s). From the 1950s until Services ceased production they produced watches sourced or using parts from Switzerland, Britain, France, East & West Germany, Russia & Hong Kong.
> 
> NB this information is based on observation & talking to an ex-Services employee.


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## diddy

oops did a boobooo there lol

thanks mach,just what i was looking for


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## mach 0.0013137

diddy said:


> oops did a boobooo there lol
> 
> thanks mach,just what i was looking for


You`re welcome :thumbsup:

BTW it is possible to get a rough date for Services watches by checking the logo...

*"Services"*

Used up until possibly the late 1930s, these also had the model name printed on the dial eg `Despatch Rider`

*Services*

Used up until the late 1950s, as above they usually (but not always) had the model name on the dial.

*SERVICES*

below an *S* inside a shield, without model name.

Used until the company ceased production.


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## diddy

mach 0.0013137 said:


> diddy said:
> 
> 
> 
> oops did a boobooo there lol
> 
> thanks mach,just what i was looking for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You`re welcome :thumbsup:
> 
> BTW it is possible to get a rough date for Services watches by checking the logo...
> 
> *"Services"*
> 
> Used up until possibly the late 1930s, these also had the model name printed on the dial eg `Despatch Rider`
> 
> *Services*
> 
> Used up until the late 1950s, as above they usually (but not always) had the model name on the dial.
> 
> *SERVICES*
> 
> below an *S* inside a shield, without model name.
> 
> Used until the company ceased production.
Click to expand...

mine has services in a curve with large "s" each end beneath which it says 17 jewels.the other dial marks sre "shockproof" and "swiss made" at the bottom of the dial.the watch has a date.


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## mach 0.0013137

diddy said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> diddy said:
> 
> 
> 
> oops did a boobooo there lol
> 
> thanks mach,just what i was looking for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You`re welcome :thumbsup:
> 
> BTW it is possible to get a rough date for Services watches by checking the logo...
> 
> *"Services"*
> 
> Used up until possibly the late 1930s, these also had the model name printed on the dial eg `Despatch Rider`
> 
> *Services*
> 
> Used up until the late 1950s, as above they usually (but not always) had the model name on the dial.
> 
> *SERVICES*
> 
> below an *S* inside a shield, without model name.
> 
> Used until the company ceased production.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> mine has services in a curve with large "s" each end beneath which it says 17 jewels.the other dial marks sre "shockproof" and "swiss made" at the bottom of the dial.the watch has a date.
Click to expand...

That would fit in the middle period, I forgot to mention the first two were curved & in script h34r:


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## diddy

mach 0.0013137 said:


> diddy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> diddy said:
> 
> 
> 
> oops did a boobooo there lol
> 
> thanks mach,just what i was looking for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You`re welcome :thumbsup:
> 
> BTW it is possible to get a rough date for Services watches by checking the logo...
> 
> *"Services"*
> 
> Used up until possibly the late 1930s, these also had the model name printed on the dial eg `Despatch Rider`
> 
> *Services*
> 
> Used up until the late 1950s, as above they usually (but not always) had the model name on the dial.
> 
> *SERVICES*
> 
> below an *S* inside a shield, without model name.
> 
> Used until the company ceased production.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> mine has services in a curve with large "s" each end beneath which it says 17 jewels.the other dial marks sre "shockproof" and "swiss made" at the bottom of the dial.the watch has a date.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That would fit in the middle period, I forgot to mention the first two were curved & in script h34r:
Click to expand...

thanks mach,that sums it up nicely.


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## Chascomm

diddy said:


> mach 0.0013137 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> diddy said:
> 
> 
> 
> oops did a boobooo there lol
> 
> thanks mach,just what i was looking for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You`re welcome :thumbsup:
> 
> BTW it is possible to get a rough date for Services watches by checking the logo...
> 
> *"Services"*
> 
> Used up until possibly the late 1930s, these also had the model name printed on the dial eg `Despatch Rider`
> 
> *Services*
> 
> Used up until the late 1950s, as above they usually (but not always) had the model name on the dial.
> 
> *SERVICES*
> 
> below an *S* inside a shield, without model name.
> 
> Used until the company ceased production.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> mine has services in a curve with large "s" each end beneath which it says 17 jewels.the other dial marks sre "shockproof" and "swiss made" at the bottom of the dial.the watch has a date.
Click to expand...

Oo! I know that one. My watchmaker had one for sale recently.

Bettlach EB 8021 pin-pallet (but a rather nice pin-pallet movement at that)










Mac, for your records in case I haven't mentioned it before, Services pocket watches in the inter-war period were sourced from Thiel Brothers, Ruhla (later known as UMF Ruhla). Thiel Bros also marketed their watches in Britain with the 'Champion' brand. An interesting connection as in the 1960s both Services and Champion brands appeared on Ruhla Electric watches.


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## mach 0.0013137

Chascomm said:


> Mac, for your records in case I haven't mentioned it before, Services pocket watches in the inter-war period were sourced from Thiel Brothers, Ruhla (later known as UMF Ruhla). Thiel Bros also marketed their watches in Britain with the 'Champion' brand. An interesting connection as in the 1960s both Services and Champion brands appeared on Ruhla Electric watches.


Thanks, I have wondered if there was a connection between Services pre & post war German suppliers. You mention that Services scourced their pocket watches from Thiel Bros, would it not be likely that the pre-war German wrist watches also came from them or were they only manufacturing pocket watches at that time?


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## DavidA1

I too am a very pleased owner of a Services wrist watch!

I bought it some years ago and it's still one of my favourite pieces. Silver face and case, black hands and a red second hand which sweeps through the dial very pleasantly. 15 jewels, model name "Diplomat" and marked Swiss Made inside and out, with a numbered case back.

Judging by the numerals and general style, I'd guess it dates to the late 30s.

A very pleasant watch and apparently quite a rare item, especially the model.


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## mach 0.0013137

Hi David & welcome to the forum :thumbsup:



DavidA1 said:


> I too am a very pleased owner of a Services wrist watch!
> 
> I bought it some years ago and it's still one of my favourite pieces. Silver face and case, black hands and a red second hand which sweeps through the dial very pleasantly. 15 jewels, model name "Diplomat" and marked Swiss Made inside and out, with a numbered case back.
> 
> Judging by the numerals and general style, I'd guess it dates to the late 30s.
> 
> A very pleasant watch and apparently quite a rare item, especially the model.


 I could be mistaken but from your description I suspect your watch may be like the one shown below & would therefore date to the mid 1950s

*Services** Diplomat `Swiss Made`, A.Schild cal.1187 15 jewels, circa mid 1950s.*


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## bycath11

Hi all,

I am new to this forum and have tried to post a picture of a services brooch watch I recently inherited with no avail! I have never seen a watch like this so any information would be much appreciated. It is set into a rhinestone brooch with the brooch itself looking like a posy of flowers tied into a knot. The watch hangs from this posy, being a small round case surrounded by the same rhinestone as the brooch. It has services on the dial and at the bottom made in Great Britain. I have opened the watch case and there is nothing printed inside. It is really quite beautiful and sparkles in the light. Does anyone recognise this description?

Many thanks

Cathie


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## mach 0.0013137

Hi Cathie, without a photo it`s difficult to comment about your watch except to say that having "Made In Great Britain" on the dial indicates that it was made for services by the Anglo-Welsh Watch Company Ltd.,see The "Tick-Tock"

The chart below shows the different logo styles Services used over the years, your watch should fit into one of the last two periods..,


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## bycath11

Hi,

Thank you for that I see that it is mid 30's to 50's it also has 7 jewels on the dial, I have a feeling it was made to order if that was possible, as it is so unique looking.

regards

Cathie


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## mach 0.0013137

As it mentioned in the link; The Anglo-Celtic Watch Company was set up in the 1940s but as far as I can gather they did not start making watches for Services until the mid-1950s which, I suspect is when your watch was produced. I have come across no indication that Services ever `made to order` they do however appear to have sold ladies, broach & pendant watches in a number of different designs over the years.


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## bycath11

Hi,

Thank you this is one of them, I will try to get a picture put on just to let you see it. Thanks to you I now know a good bit more.

regards

Cathie


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## mach 0.0013137

You`re welcome, I have a special interest in Services watches & my watch repairer used to work for the company.


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## Leelee123

mach 0.0013137 said:


> You`re welcome, I have a special interest in Services watches & my watch repairer used to work for the company.


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## Leelee123

Hello, I have a services sports watch - I think it's 1920s after reading the above . It's a hexagon shape


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## mach 0.0013137

Hi & welcome to the forum :thumbsup:



Leelee123 said:


> Hello, I have a services sports watch - I think it's 1920s after reading the above . It's a hexagon shape


 Is it one of these perchance?

*"Service**s**"** SPORTS, `FOREIGN` **(made by Thiel Brothers Thuringia, Germany),*

*Lola unjeweled pin-pallet movement, circa mid 1930s.*










As shown bottom right in this circa 1937 Services brochure ...


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## Mart

I have a Services Diver. Black face and black second hand. S in a shield work Services underneath. A look inside reveals a EB 8800 17 jewel movement and movement and case marked Sindaco ltd.

I'm guessing 60's as no quickset date.


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## mach 0.0013137

Sounds about right though a photo might confirm it also does it mention if it`s "Waterproof" or "Water Resistant"?


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## steve1221

Just found this forum and thread (late the party as usual).

Just had to say, my first job out of school was at Services, back in July 1969!!! God I feel old now. I was there until the early 70's when they had a culling. I think due to very bad sales. It was alright place to work I guess. Some the managers were a bit odd! But the training they promised at the interview never came to anything much. But I made some good friends, all of which I have now lost contact with.

I had call to go back to Leicester a couple of years back and found that Time House on Duke St (services HQ) is a now a set of trendy loft apartments!!!


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## scottswatches

steve1221 said:


> Just found this forum and thread (late the party as usual).


 Just 4 years after the last comment!

Most manufacturers suffered in the 1970s due to what is now referred to as the quartz crisis. If you knew Stephen Burrage during your working life he is doing well.


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## steve1221

scottswatches said:


> Just 4 years after the last comment!
> 
> Most manufacturers suffered in the 1970s due to what is now referred to as the quartz crisis. If you knew Stephen Burrage during your working life he is doing well.


 Yeah, 4 years is a bit of a lag I grant you! But I've typed Services into google a few times over the years and nothing ever popped up until now??

I'm sure I recall Stephen's name. I'm glad he's okay 

I remember the first time I heard about this odd quartz thing. If I recall correctly the first model was something like £700 with another £100 if you wanted a countdown timer added. How you get them in Christmas crackers! It's a strange old world.


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## flime ties

mach 0.0013137 said:


> Sounds about right though a photo might confirm it also does it mention if it`s "Waterproof" or "Water Resistant"?


 As you seem interested in Services watches,I have a Services wrist watch box, looks fifties,has "Services Sports Watches" Fully guaranteed " &"For Distinguished Service" on top, in good condition ,it is free if you would like it? (still working on adding pics!)


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## maxbill

Hi all just wanted to add I have a Services Watch with the later logo that has a Takano 19 Jewel movement. According to information on a Japanese watches forum Takano was only in business between 1967 and 1962 before being taken over by Ricoh.


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## maxbill

Obviously the dates above should read 1957-1962.


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## Kiwiden

Hello everyone. Interesting reading, as I started working for the "Services Watch Co" in Bede St Leicester as a trainee Watchmaker in August of 1955, it was my first job after leaving School, I was employed as a trainee watchmaker, I started off working in the winding and testing dept on the ground floor for a couple of months just winding up new watches, setting them to the correct time and then checking them the following day and putting aside any that were faulty, needless to say I soon got tired of doing this boring job so I was then sent upstairs to the "Aviation" department on the second floor and given a workbench and an instructor to begin real watch repairing, I spent about six months there learning the basic cleaning and repairing Techniques, I was then sent back downstairs to another department where I was given a bench some tools and boxes of brand new but faulty watches to fix. Soon after moving downstairs I got a roasting from the big boss himself for a very minor incident, I think his name was "Charles Schwartz" and I think he was a German and had a real Nazi attitude and he gave me a roasting in front of all the other people in the department, and being just 15 it really upset me, so I left and went to work in a retail jewelers workshop where I leaned much more as I was now working on many different brands of watches. I eventually went on to own my own retail and repair shops, and in 1973 I married and emigrated to New Zealand where I continued as a watchmaker until I retired in 2005. I still have a small home workshop and now only do watch restoration work for my own small collection of 1920s to 1940s Art-Deco style watch collection.

Dennis Akers.


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## George Angelo

Hi Everybody,

Recently i bought an "Services" Golf watch with a Thiel Brothers Lola (22,3mm diameter) mechanism, but unfortunatelly it is not working. Please can somebody help me where can i find such an old mechanism (1927 - 1938) or at least spare parts. Thank you in advance!

Kind regards,

Angelo


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## Balaton1109

Hi George,

I assume that yours has some parts missing? However, if it is complete, it's entirely possible that it can be made to work again by a competent (and proper) watch repairer.

You may need to trawl online auction sites for as long as it takes. I had the same problem with sourcing a 1920s Thiel Divina which took me about two years of on and off searching until 3 of them turned up about 6 months ago. Along the way, I had seen some Thiel Lola movements for sale but they were not what I was looking for. You may get lucky quickly.

Also, have a look at our Repairs forum and perhaps contact Simon2 for advice.

Regards.


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## SteveA

Hi all,

I have to say this makes for some interesting reading.

I have an old services watch my uncle gave to me as a kid and I would like to know a little more about its age and value. I want to get it repaired/restored to its original condition if that's possible, but I do not know where or who to send it to for a faithful and true repair. For some reason I cannot upload a photo of it. It has an S in a shield with SERVICES underneath and 17 JEWELS underneath that. It states antimagnetic and water resistant on the face and is Swiss Made. It has a day and date calendar but the day does not work well as it gets stuck.

https://ibb.co/ng22F4m

The idea is that I create an heirloom for one of my children with a note on its history, thought it would be nice as the history would be added to generation after generation :0)

Any help on the above would be greatly appreciated. I don't think it is worth a lot in money terms but has a lot of sentimental value and would love to have some answers on the above.

Kind Regards

Steve


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## Sol

Hello all,

Can anyone recommend a good repair/restorer of Services watches.

Would love to have mine in working otder. Bought it to replace a birthday gift 1965 and lost it.

Thanks in advance

Sol.


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## Friendly02

I have a services ladies watch. Still ticking. States services underneath a large S in shield. IT

States 17 jewels at the bottom, with a dark amber face and white numerical and hands. Glass is badly scratched. Stainless steel back only. Still has green felt Services box. How old would you say this is 1920/30 or 1950+. It was my nans, I'm 57 so I'm thing the former based on what's been discussed historically. Any ideas would be helpful.


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## Mintachine

Hi all,

New here, and want to thank everyone for posting info, stories, history etc. which really helped me decide to start my collection off with a 'Services' watch.

I'm assuming because of the 'S' in the shield that mine is from somewhere between the late 50's to late 70's. It gains around five minutes a day and the dial is a little scuffed, but it's still beautiful. I added a fresh strap and pins and I absolutely LOVE it.

I haven't opened it up yet, but the back has 'Water Proof,' 'Antimagnetic,' 'Swiss Made,' 'Shockprotected' and 'Stainless Steel Back' circling an 'S' in a shield.

Services watch


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## Enref

Hi all, thanks for the the history lesson its been good to read a bit about them. I inherited a Womens Services 5 jewel from a great aunt and its still in working shape and has a gorgeous (if aged) services display/gift box. Judging from the script services logo, I'm guessing it would likely be from the mid period ~50s.


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## Peter Dixon

Thanks for this fascinating thread which I have only just stumbled on. I inherited a *"Services"* Court watch marked 17 jewels but no reference to a country of manufacture on the face. Stainless steel back (which I haven't dared take off) marked 3400. It was presented to my dad when he left a job in the late '50s so I've always assumed it was a bit posher than a Timex. Does that sound right and, if so, can anyone offer me any more background to it please?


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## Guest

I have a Services watch with ON TIME on the dial. The movement is German marked Mauthe. I think it is early 1950s but not sure.


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## gillianmconnolly

That’s great info thanks mac. I have an eye shape pendant watch with the S services logo. Curious to how much it’s worth if anything as got with other jewellery from a sale


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## spinynorman

gillianmconnolly said:


> That’s great info thanks mac. I have an eye shape pendant watch with the S services logo. Curious to how much it’s worth if anything as got with other jewellery from a sale


Sorry, it’s forum policy not to give valuations.


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