# Opinions On Junghans Max Bill And Stowa Antea



## The Monk (Dec 23, 2010)

This place seems to have people with answers at their fingertips, so i will take the plunge with another question.

There are two watches that currently take my fancy. I would be grateful for people's reviews or opinions of the particular watches and/or the brands in general.

The first is the Junghans Max Bill Hand Wound with black dial - http://junghans.de/html/pages/en_maxbill_armbanduhren_handaufzug.htm

The second is the Stowa Antea Kleine Sekunde - http://www.stowa.de/shop/cgi-bin/lshop.cgi?action=showdetail&wkid=20629&ls=e&nc=1295303037-20737&rubnum=antea&artnum=anteaklsek&file=&gesamt_zeilen=Tshowrub--antea

Both have the simple classic retro styling that reeks beauty in a watch. No disrespect to those who love highly ornate or quirky watches, but to my eye a watch's beauty derives from its function, ie telling the time. How well it does that from a visual point of view will partly determine its beauty, so it seems to me. Or maybe I am a killjoy who hates too much fanciness!

Thanks in advance. :hi:


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## Barryboy (Mar 21, 2006)

Hi...

Firstly I should say that you will struggle to find anything detrimental said about Stowa. Stowa is a highly respected brand that is very popular with the members here. Junghans is another respected brand but I rather think there was a discussion two or three years ago about Junghans which concluded with the opinion that Junghans were going a little downmarket with their newer watches - personally I don't know enough about the brand to comment but they do have some attractive dress watch designs.

I also am a fan of simple dial design so I can see where you are coming from with these watches. My philosophy with watch purchase is that if you really like the watch, you can afford it and you won't get any matrimonial strife consequent to the purchase (and a lot of us have to bear that one in mind!!) then go for it. Quite a basic concept, really, but there you are.

Now as to a recommendation?? I can't say which is the better watch of the two, and I have no idea of the price of the Junghans, but I prefer the appearance of the Stowa and they have a rock solid pedigree so in your position I would almost certainly buy the Stowa.

Rob


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## The Monk (Dec 23, 2010)

Barryboy said:


> Hi...
> 
> Firstly I should say that you will struggle to find anything detrimental said about Stowa. Stowa is a highly respected brand that is very popular with the members here. Junghans is another respected brand but I rather think there was a discussion two or three years ago about Junghans which concluded with the opinion that Junghans were going a little downmarket with their newer watches - personally I don't know enough about the brand to comment but they do have some attractive dress watch designs.
> 
> ...


Thanks Rob! I had not heard about Junghans possibly going a little downmarket so that is a little wake-up call. As to the Stowa, I agree - it is such a pure and elegant looking watch. As to price, the Jugnhans is around in the UK for either Â£395 or Â£440; the Stowa, as you no doubt know from their website, is about Â£400.


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## rednotdead (Jan 18, 2008)

My Antea KS arrived last week - it's even better in the metal than in the photos. I'm very pleased with it - the design is simplicity itself but oh so classy. I did seriously consider a Nomos instead but decided on the Stowa and spent the difference on some more watches!


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## The Monk (Dec 23, 2010)

rednotdead said:


> My Antea KS arrived last week - it's even better in the metal than in the photos. I'm very pleased with it - the design is simplicity itself but oh so classy. I did seriously consider a Nomos instead but decided on the Stowa and spent the difference on some more watches!


Super! Out of interest, what was the waiting period for delivery of the Antea KS?


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## rednotdead (Jan 18, 2008)

I ordered in September (end of) and delivery was due end of December but the snow played havoc with Stowa's deliveries. They did actually contact me to ask if I wanted to take the risk and have it sent out during all the bad weather or wait until the new year when they could guarantee delivery in a couple of days.


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## The Monk (Dec 23, 2010)

rednotdead said:


> I ordered in September (end of) and delivery was due end of December but the snow played havoc with Stowa's deliveries. They did actually contact me to ask if I wanted to take the risk and have it sent out during all the bad weather or wait until the new year when they could guarantee delivery in a couple of days.


Interesting. It seems safe to say their watches do not sit gathering dust on shelves at the factory! And it looks gorgeous.


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## YouCantHaveTooManyWatches (Nov 28, 2010)

The Monk said:


> rednotdead said:
> 
> 
> > I ordered in September (end of) and delivery was due end of December but the snow played havoc with Stowa's deliveries. They did actually contact me to ask if I wanted to take the risk and have it sent out during all the bad weather or wait until the new year when they could guarantee delivery in a couple of days.
> ...


Purely my opinion but I prefer the Stowa to the Junghans - both very desirable but the Stowa somehow definitely "does it" for me aesthetically more than the Junghans.

I would really like the Antea Creme model, but Stowa are now talking about end of Octover 2011 if ordered this week! It may well be worth waiting for but I do slightly resent them having the benefit of 350 of my euros in their coffers for 9 months...


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## Barreti (Apr 18, 2008)

fftopic2: I've long lusted after the Max Bill Chronoscope. Sadly it says something that the Junghans website you linked to has a spelling mistake for Max Bill (clocks)

For goodness sake, doesn't anybody believe in quality these days


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

Personally I prefer the Junghans a watch I`d like to get one day, somehow I`m not keen on the Stowa`s looks :no:


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## gaz64 (May 5, 2009)

I like the junghans as well Mach


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## Rotundus (May 7, 2012)

jungens dial doesn't do it for me, much prefer the stowa hands and dial.

for me both watches are a wee bit too small and not overly keen on the cases or lugs of either.

is the stowa also hand wound? if so i might consider it but would have to see it in the metal first.

timekeeping a big issue also.

all of which is irrelevant as it is you that is doing the buying...

enjoy either way.


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## Barryboy (Mar 21, 2006)

So there you go, Monk. Divided opinion, much as I expected, but with the prices about the same you won't go far wrong withg either watch. One point that nobody has mentioned, though, is residuals. If you don't bond with the watch and want to sell it on in a year or so I suspect you would have a much easier time of it with the Stowa - I may be wrong, but that's my two pence worth.

Rob


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## RLE (Nov 26, 2009)

Stowa are simply fantastic watches and ooze quality. I've had a few over the years and have been tempted by the Antea on a number of occassions but the waiting time does put me off slightly as well as the lug design. That said you can not argue with the price.

You seldom see Max Bills for sale second hand which suggests owners are happy with their purchases. I do agree with Rob though....the Stowa would sell in a matter of minutes and given the lead times I doubt you would take a hit if you decided to move it on.


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## rednotdead (Jan 18, 2008)

YouCantHaveTooManyWatches said:


> [i would really like the Antea Creme model, but Stowa are now talking about end of Octover 2011 if ordered this week! It may well be worth waiting for but I do slightly resent them having the benefit of 350 of my euros in their coffers for 9 months...


Stowa don't take the cash until your watch is on the assembly line. You order it, they acknowledge, you get an email several months later saying your watch is ready to build and can you please pay now, a couple of weeks later you receive a nice shiny box full of Stowa goodness. :thumbsup:


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## Drum2000 (Apr 2, 2010)

The Monk said:


> rednotdead said:
> 
> 
> > I ordered in September (end of) and delivery was due end of December but the snow played havoc with Stowa's deliveries. They did actually contact me to ask if I wanted to take the risk and have it sent out during all the bad weather or wait until the new year when they could guarantee delivery in a couple of days.
> ...





YouCantHaveTooManyWatches said:


> The Monk said:
> 
> 
> > rednotdead said:
> ...


Perhaps it is well known but Stowa doesn't begin to make your watch until you order it. Usual waiting time is 3 months so to hear October is pretty astonishing unless it is only indicative of this model for supply reasons, et cetera. The wait somehow makes it special (I am waiting on a Steinhart Proteus of which only 111 are to be made. Hopefully it will be with me before too long!). And I am 99.999% sure that Stowa doesn't take the full amount until the watch is ready for delivery.

As for the Junghans I know little about them except that they have a reputation for quality. Either way you win.


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## The Monk (Dec 23, 2010)

I was called away yesterday and so am only now catching up on all the opinions and advice.

Actually, it was all very reassuring. Both brands seem to have quality on their side: Stowa more that everyone raves about them; Junghans more that no one sells them, it seems.

As to aesthetics, well that is a personal matter so everyone's opinion is valid. I love Bauhaus, so the Antea is perfect with its Bauhaus font and clean lines, and Max Bill was a student of Gropius. The watch is more 50s it seems to me, but lovely for all that (I am referring to the black dial one with arabic numerals).

Since exchange rates favour me for once, I am getting both! The Junghans has a 10-day wait period. The Stowa is the end of March I think, but it is good that Stowa do not take your money straight away - that was refreshing to hear.

So thanks everyone for your opinions - they helped immensely in giving me a sense of brand worthiness. :cheers:


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## rednotdead (Jan 18, 2008)

Excellent choice on both counts Sir! Make sure you get some pictures up when they arrive.


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## The Monk (Dec 23, 2010)

rednotdead said:


> Excellent choice on both counts Sir! Make sure you get some pictures up when they arrive.


Will do!

Actually I am more and more impressed by how beautiful good watches are. The Laco Pilot A is stunningly and simply beautiful; and my other "good" watch at the moment is a Christopher Ward C80 RAF Type I Sector, snapped up in the after-Christmas sale, and it also is beautiful to see and to hold/wear. It has an ETA 2824-2 mechanism. Both keep reasonable time: the Laco's Miyota loses about 10 seconds a day; the C80 gains about 3 seconds.

My other watch is a MWC(SA) military Quartz with H3 lume, which I wear when doing knockabout things. It has not lost a second!

Thanks all!


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## Barryboy (Mar 21, 2006)

rednotdead said:


> YouCantHaveTooManyWatches said:
> 
> 
> > [i would really like the Antea Creme model, but Stowa are now talking about end of Octover 2011 if ordered this week! It may well be worth waiting for but I do slightly resent them having the benefit of 350 of my euros in their coffers for 9 months...
> ...


Here's the reason for the long order time on the Antea (copied from the Stowa website):

Dear Customer,

we want to give you some explanation regarding our longer delivery time for our Antea Creme and Antea black.

In the meantime you surely heard as well about the increase of demand in the watch-market.

This fact causes shortage for good running watch movements.

For our models Antea Creme and Antea black there is only a certain amount of movements available.

For the moment there can maximum be build 25 watches each month ( 300 watches each year - shared on both models )

Of course we are working to get more movements for our Antea Creme and Black models and it could happen that we will receive some additional movements during this year.

But for the moment ETA, our main movement supplier, can not increase the delivery quantity, so can neither other suppliers.

Particularly for.this movement the demand world-wide is very big.

Unfortunately we can not use movements reserved for our other models for the Antea Creme or the Antea black, because this would overrule our complete material planing for 2010 and 2011.

A small comfort - we can tell you that you will receive a STOWA watch which is worth to wait.

The ' obligation of limitation ' and the possibility to offer you a nice price because we are distributing our watches directly will make your watch to a special one.

Your STOWA Team and JÃ¶rg Schauer

So it's a simple case of shortage of movements from ETA.

Rob


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## Markrlondon (Feb 20, 2009)

Barryboy said:


> So it's a simple case of shortage of movements from ETA.


And this is only set to get worse when ETA *finally* stop supplying non-Swatch Group manufacturers. What will happen then? Sellita will be swamped. Are there any other genuine Swiss manufacturers of ETA-compatible movements?


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## 86latour (Jun 3, 2010)

I much prefer the Junghans, again its the lugs on the stowa I'm not keen on...

I do however love and practise the philosophy of -

*IF IN DOUBT, BUY BOTH!* :thumbsup:


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## Maf (Jul 23, 2008)

Markrlondon said:


> Barryboy said:
> 
> 
> > So it's a simple case of shortage of movements from ETA.
> ...


I believe Stowa are planning to supply the Soprod A10 movement in some of their designs


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## The Monk (Dec 23, 2010)

86latour said:


> I much prefer the Junghans, again its the lugs on the stowa I'm not keen on...
> 
> I do however love and practise the philosophy of -
> 
> *IF IN DOUBT, BUY BOTH!* :thumbsup:


I was in doubt, so I DID buy both. Ouch! :doctor:


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## The Monk (Dec 23, 2010)

Maf said:


> Markrlondon said:
> 
> 
> > Barryboy said:
> ...


 I have never heard of Soprod. Do you know of any watches that have their movements?


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## Mutley (Apr 17, 2007)

The Monk said:


> 86latour said:
> 
> 
> > I much prefer the Junghans, again its the lugs on the stowa I'm not keen on...
> ...


Well done that man :thumbsup:


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## mach 0.0013137 (Jan 10, 2005)

The Monk said:


> Maf said:
> 
> 
> > Markrlondon said:
> ...


A quick search of the forum flagged up this...Soprod A-10 Movement.


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## The Monk (Dec 23, 2010)

mach 0.0013137 said:


> A quick search of the forum flagged up this...Soprod A-10 Movement.


I found their site but it did not tell me much, but your link did. It seems to be a high-end movement - no bad thing, unless it puts all the prices up!


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## langtoftlad (Mar 31, 2007)

Stowa - nothing happens quickly :lol:

Jorge Schauer, the owner, is very hands on.

Nothing leaves the factory without his final inspection.

As others have noted, your watch is made for you, not picked off a stockroom shelf, and you don't pay, not even a deposit, until they're ready to put it together.

Stowa - are trying to move away from any reliance on ETA.

They now own the Durowe brand and are trying to develop their own movement based on the Unitas.

Also as mentioned - they want to fit Soprod to some of their range but it's not a straight swop.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f36/some-info-stowa-marine-auto-10-a-379406.html

(Apologies if the link is not acceptable)

I am a fan of Stowa - and an owner of several of their watches - so the below might sound like sour grapes. It's not meant to.

I believe the parent company of Junghans went bankrupt a couple of years ago - however, it seems the brand has been 'rescued' by two German investors.

There's more information here (sorry another WUS article) but as they're both written by the same author - the (in)famous Mike Stuffler - I think you can assume the bias is even apportioned.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f8/how-does-junghans-compare-480275.html


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## YouCantHaveTooManyWatches (Nov 28, 2010)

rednotdead said:


> YouCantHaveTooManyWatches said:
> 
> 
> > [i would really like the Antea Creme model, but Stowa are now talking about end of Octover 2011 if ordered this week! It may well be worth waiting for but I do slightly resent them having the benefit of 350 of my euros in their coffers for 9 months...
> ...


Aah - that's not at all obvious from the website - many thanks to RND.

I shall now go and order my Antea Creme immediately (and worry about the 350 euros in 8 or 9 months' time!)


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## The Monk (Dec 23, 2010)

YouCantHaveTooManyWatches said:


> I shall now go and order my Antea Creme immediately (and worry about the 350 euros in 8 or 9 months' time!)


Delayed pain will be rewarded with delayed gratification, and builds character to boot! :comando:


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## YouCantHaveTooManyWatches (Nov 28, 2010)

Latest news from Stowa:

I looked at their "new" website - it's about two weeks old now - only to find that it has had the lovely Antea Creme model removed completely from their range! Panic! :down:

So I immediately emailed them and got a response from Regine Schauer (possibly some relative of Jorge?) explaining that the shortage of ETA movements was proving such a problem that they could no longer justify asking customers to wait up to 9 months for their watches to be made, so they have regretfully had to drop the Antea Creme from their range.

That's the BAD news. 

The GOOD news:

They will definitely still honour all orders for the Antea Creme taken up to January 31st - and I had got my order in on January 28th! PHEW!! :yahoo:


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## gaz64 (May 5, 2009)

blame swatch group (bloody pirates) this i think will end up backfiring on them (I hope)


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## Markrlondon (Feb 20, 2009)

YouCantHaveTooManyWatches said:


> they have regretfully had to drop the Antea Creme from their range.


Grief, anyone who's got one for sale should be pleased when this news gets around.

As I've mentioned before, this sort of problem is going to become more widespread as ETA movements become harder to find. I just don't know what is going to happen to the vast numbers of watches from numerous manufacturers that rely on the the popular 2824-2 and the like. Sellita won't be able to cope with demand.

I guess it will boil down to either redesigning watches to use alternative movements (Miyota 9015?) or going for Asian ETA clones, assuming, as seems likely to me, Sellita can't keep up with demand.

Is the CL-888 plug and play compatible with the 2824-2 or does it need an internal case redesign?


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