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Cheap Chinese Mechanicals - Further Notes and Sources

22K views 26 replies 15 participants last post by  GongNong88 
#1 ·
I have just made one of my forays into the world of cheap Chinese watches, benefitting from a free trial of Amazon Prime that enabled me to get them in one day with no postage costs. As usual, my foray was accompanied by more research, and I thought In would just give fellow members some relevant notes and sources of information that have come to my attention recently.

Perhaps the most important thing to recognise when it comes to cheap Chinese mechanical watches is that in terms of their movements, we are essentially talking about the Standard Chinese or "Tongji" movement, and the tail-end of that movement's story at that. So what is this Tongji movement? Well, this movement was developed in the People's Republic of China during the fourth Five-Year Plan in the 1970s. The development of the movement went hand-in-hand with the consolidation of the watch industry, meaning that almost all watch factories in China were required to mass-produce and use this movement instead of their own calibres.

The Standard or "Unified" Movement was developed by a design group consisting of engineers from a number of Chinese watch factories, with the project commencing in 1969. The SZ-1 prototype soon emerged, and blueprints were completed in November 1971. The philosophy behind the new Tongji movement was the attempt to produce a decent mechanical watch that would be affordable to every worker in China, and so the engineering aim was to make the movement easier to produce and service, while at the same time maintaining a good degree of accuracy and reliability. Thus it was that the basic specs of the Standard wristwatch calibre comprised a minimum of 17 jewels, a 21,600 bph escapement, a minimunm of 40 hours power reserve and accuracy to within plus or minus thirty seconds per day. As the movement came into service, the industry was encouraged to vertically integrate such that individual watch factories manufactured the whole watch, including the standard movement itself. The result was a diversity within the Tongji movement, depending on which factory made it and which level of watch quality it was made for.

Initially, the quality of the Tongji watch movement was quite high and the movement was a dependable and sufficiently accurate unit. The movement was made in both hand-wind and automatic forms, and there was a larger version for pocket watches. The movement was soon being produced in very large quantities by the 30 or more factories that made complete watches, and the movement was the predominant Chinese watch movement well into the nineteen eighties when the quartz crisis even began to affect Chinese mechanical watch production. In its heyday, watch production in China increased from 6.564 million in 1974 to 33.01 million in 1982, and even at the end of that period some 82% of watches produced in China contained Standard movements.

Two views of a rather attractive and very inexpensive Orkina hand-wind wristwatch, being traded by Vantasy, a company that oversees distribution and sale of a number of cheap Chinese watch brands. The rear view shows a typical modern Tongji or Standard movement and the watch is available from Amazon UK for £14.99 (pics from cathyspringer.com and exc.images-amazon.com):

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The advent of the cheap quartz watch damaged the quality and production numbers of the Standard Chinese watch movement, yet in spite of this quartz crisis and also changes in economic policy, factory closures and re-purposing, replacement designs and finally the return of Hong Kong to China in 1997, the Standard movement soldiered on and there were even new variants being made in these later years (One example being the relatively recent version of the Tongji movement where the balance wheel has been relocated to the dial side, enabling an open-heart watch design to be produced). The reputation of the movement now suffered as the general quality declined and ultimately, today, we are left with the tail-end manufacturers of this movement, used in the main to power simple - sometimes even crude - Chinese hand-wind and mechanical watches (for both wrist and pocket) that are now widely available on the internet at very low prices. A new purpose has been found for these movements that has perhaps further prolonged the life of the Tongji, and that is the skeletonisation of watches for aesthetic reasons, such as catering for the fashionable "steampunk" style. As for automatic versions of the Standard movement, these range from the perfectly acceptable to the downright awful, in the worst cases having rotors that are unable to supply sufficient power to enable the watches to work in automatic mode.

Winner hand-wind skeleton-dial mechanical watch, subject of a short review in "The Steampunk Review" in 2013 when it was compared (unfavourably) to a much cheaper version of the same basic watch - just over $100 as compared to $29.99. "Trevor" gave Winner watches a 90% rating, and surely he can't be wrong? (3.bp.blogspot.com):

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So, for those us who enjoy reaching down into the murky world of cheap new Chinese mechanical watches, the Tongji movement is key to our continuing purchases. OK, it would be nice if these watches were a bit more reliable and consistent, and we have to suffer the outrages of inaccurate descriptions and straps that are often, quite simply, crap. But there is pleasure when we land a good 'un of quite decent quality and with reasonably accurate timekeeping. I have a sneaking feeling that the best of these cheap watches are those of simple functioning hand-wind rather than automatic and without complications other than, perhaps, a date window. I have also found that, in my experience, watches with solid steel case backs seem to often work better than watches with display backs, but this may be just a personal bias.

Having now explained the lifeblood of the cheap Chinese watch - the Standard or Tongji movement - I will report on a new finding that links together some of the most well-known brands in the cheap Chinese mechanical sector. I am always looking for information on the origins of the cheap Chinese mechanical watches, but by and large, this is a thankless task, like wading through mud. It is clear from trawling through the internet that main watch components are interchangeable between brands, and that the complication of identity is further confused by companies being traders as well as manufacturers. In my latest revelation, I have discovered that three of the most well known brand names in the world of cheap Chinese mechanicals are from one source, the Guangzhou Ruixue Watch Company Limited. The central brand, from which the company now takes its English name, is "Forsining", and the company is also responsible for the "Winner" and "Jaragar" (also spelled "Jargar") watches that appear online. The Guangzhou Ruixue Watch Company is based in Guangdong and employs something over 50 people - it has a factory in Guangzhou.

I have been doing a bit more work on Kronen & Sohne but the only information I have so far is negative, implying that this is a wholly "artificial" company with no heritage or genuinely independent existence in spite of its lavish website. KS watches are readily available from Amazon and other online sites, and one might be fooled into thinking that these are somehow a cut above the more general run of cheapie Chinese watches. I have bought watches of this brand and consider them on a par with many other brands in this sector, although in their favour they do provide some information on the movements they use and I would like to know more about the people behind the brand. Other names still remain a mystery, such as Sewor, Orkina and Shenhua. Reviews of watches from the various cheap Chinese mechanical watches tend to polarise between the very good and the very bad, and these extremes are frequently found for a single watch model. It seems that the world of the cheap Tongji-powered watch is a minefield or a lottery, and even though I enjoy buying these watches from time to time, I cannot help asking the question, WHY.,..?

Why are so many of these watches still being manufactured and sold, and why would anyone buy them apart from mad watch collectors like myself? Answers on a postcard please - or at least a post on the forum with your answer. In fact, I feel it would be churlish to deny the aesthetic appeal of some of the cheap Chinese watches available, and that extends to quite close scrutiny of the watches. In some cases, the quality of the watch wholly belies its cheapness and there is a beguiling feeling that one has got a bit of a bargain. When the watch works well - and yes, some of them really do - then one can really feel that one has bypassed the trap of buying an essentially Chinese mechanical watch for a far higher price. Obviously, when one is talking about Chinese watches that have a genuine heritage and reputation, such as Sea-Gull, one expects to pay an appropriately higher price, and I do not include watches by this company in this topic on the cheap Chinese watches that are priced from about £10 to £35.

Automatic calendar watch by Kronen & Sohne of a case and dial design that is also produced by other companies in the cheap Chinese mechanical sector. About £25 will buy this watch online. The basic design is also used on certain Replica Rolex models (pic from ecx.images.amazon.com):

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As a final part of this topic, I must just give you some useful source material pertaining to the identity of various Chinese watch manufacturers. There are now a number of useful lists of past and current Chinese watch brands online, and perusing these sometimes provides a surprise or two. Here are the relevant addresses:

1) Chinesewatchwiki.net/List_of_Chinese_watch_brands. This list is part of a very useful Wiki section on Chinese watches in general. The main page from which various sections can be accessed is at Chinesewatchwiki.net/Main_Page.

2) blog.finewatchesofchina.com/catalogue-chinese-brands/. This is a useful list of the more upmarket Chinese watch manufacturers.

3) globalsources.com/manufacturers/Watches.html. A very useful compilation of the various current Chinese watch manufacturers, giving interesting details of product lines, etc..

4) made-in-china.com/manufacturers/watch.html. Another list of current watch manufacturers in China.

Two views of another attractive Orkina watch, this time a Tongji movement automatic calendar watch. This basic design, with the front-facing tourbillon-style balance wheel (NOT a true tourbillon) is clearly very popular and appears in numerous guises by different Chinese makers. Note that the rotor and movement have engine-turned lines which is a little bit unusual in the cheaper watch sector. This particular watch is being sold under the ESS brand name although it is by Orkina, and ESS is one of those companies that deals in ESS branded watches and watches branded with other company names (pics from khariddaari.com):

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#3 ·
Thanks Roger - I always enjoy a bit of fun with these cheapies, and have had some nice watches out of it as well as a few duffers. One thing I have discovered, with regard to after sales returns, is that the companies who sell these watches are only too happy to replace them if they are faulty or refund the money, and I have had a couple of problems where I didn't even have to send the faulty watch back. Pretty good, I reckon. :)
 
#7 ·
Thanks for an interesting read. A week ago, I received from Amazon a Kronen & Sohne .automatic gold chrono. For £26, it has kept spot on time, although the gold looks a bit common and flashy. Their Gertman website sells all sorts of gifts and watches - all with a whiff of China about them. The watch may last, or find itself i9n the bin?

Mike
 
#8 ·
Thanks for all the info on these budget brand watches. I got a Winner watch this week from Amazon. It's a really nice watch.I got it from Amazon for under $20 and it comes with a 2 year warranty. I have another winner watch being shipped to me and I am thinking of getting a third.This is my new Winner watch below with my "vintage" mechanical watches.

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#10 ·
Thanks Honor, as usual, a great read! :yes:

A bit of orFINE researh there ! - - I find there's cheapo cr4p and then there's "inexpensive" stuff in this sector of the market, just as you say. Vintage Chinasian watches using the Standard movement are not at all bad, it's the QC on the modern cheapos that worries folks :yes:

"Inexpensive" VFM always floats my poat tho' :notworthy:
 
#12 ·
The one in the video above has this movement

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/fuzztone65/Watches/Winner/T2eC16Jw0E9szNWu2BSEckg-g60_57.jpg[/IMG]

Mine has a slightly different movement

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/fuzztone65/Watches/Winner/49f26a09-5dd9-451c-9db7-0626ced1a2f6.jpg[/IMG]
 
#14 ·
I don;'t think you did anything wrong. However to help out......

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It does appear to me that both the Winner and Sewor brands are using the same cases, movements, dials and hands - the only difference being the brand name that appears on the dial.

David
 
#17 ·
My second Winner from Amazon came today.This one is much better than the first. It looks nice and keeps good time so far. The auto winder is functioning as it should. The roter moves very freely in this one,like the roter on the Seagull movement in my Timex watch. Hopefully the crown won't come out if I have to set it again.

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#18 ·
Haven't been here for a while. Those 2 Winner watches above actually both broke on me. The crown pulled off of the black one,don't remember what happened to the white one but I think it stated to lose several minutes a day and didn't auto wind so I sent it back. Now I just bought a Sewor hand wound watch from Amazon. Hope it works out better than the 2 Winners.

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#19 ·
Now that I have reread my old post about the white Winner watch above I see the reason I sent it back is because the stem and crown came out when I tried to pull it out to the 3rd click to change the date.That seems to be the worst problem with these Winner automatic watches since the same thing happened on both the ones I owned. It's really too bad because the were both nice looking watches and kept good time. The watch I remember sending back because it didn't keep good time was actually a Russian Vostok watch not a chinese watch. The other Chinese watch I had that stopped working was an Akribos XXIV,but that was because I fell of my bicycle and the shock when I landed on both hands(and knees) was too much for it. Now it is in the box with my black Winner and my other broken watches.
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#21 ·
I also have come into possession of the odd Chinese watch over the years and I must say the latest ones pictured here, are of much better quality than the older Winner and Jar-Guar ones I've had before.

I'm wondering if their drive to, (shall we say) 'copy' expensive designs has driven up their quality?? At least of the cases and general feel of them. Some of the older ones tended to be enormous 50mm+ and have lots of pointless fake sub dials etc. Bezels could be really cheap looking as well. My latest two are actually very well put together perhaps because they wanted to replicate the original so closely... just a theory.

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#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
Look at a Chinese watch brand called Star King a customer of mine who visits every now and then to get his vintage watches serviced was telling about his new star king he was wearing with what i am told a in house auto movement from the manufacturer had his delivered to his door for £38 not sure on how true this is this but link provided use the discount codes provided in the link think it works out at $40 usd shipped to the UK https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AM0184-watches-male-mechanical-watch-stainless-steel-fully-automatic-waterproof-businessmen-watches/32652320409.html
 
#24 ·
Have bought a few of these Chinese watches from Aliexpress (they have a sale on in a few hours), rotors tend to be a bit of noise when you shake them, and some of the wrist straps aren't up to much, but for the price, wasn't expecting too much. But overall have been surprised at how good some of them are for the price, I especially like the Benyar, it was only £23, well finished and has one of the better quality straps.

BENYAR 5144 Blue Silver Blue (1)BENYAR 5144 Blue Silver Blue (2)Pagani Design 30M  Automatic Watch  (1)Guanchin GQ50009Starking AM0255 (1)
 
#26 ·
Is this watch really acceptable in any way on an enthusiast's forum? A "homage" (and I use that word very reluctantly when it comes to cheap Chinese watches) is one thing but it's damn obvious that this piece of junk comes from exactly the same factory as the thousands fake of PRC 200s that grace online auction sites throughout the world. Unless of course the "Guanqin" watch brand was founded in 1868 in which case I apologise....
 
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