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Jesaya Pandia

Please Help, Antique Pocket Watch

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Hi, my name is Jesaya Pandia, it's really a pleasure to join this forum, I'm happy to meet other antique watch lover,  I really need I help guys,  I'm new to the pocket watch world but love them,  so I just bought a beautiful old pocket watch but there's an issue with it,  it's broken I have no idea about the brand or where it came from, but the odd and unique thing about this piece is the flag of Turkish and Luxembourg and a symbol that says "railways engineering watch" the brand "Levie Watch" and under the flag there was written "trade mark",IMG_20170525_204817_zpszdx4pndw.jpg I want to fix it but I have to be sure is it worth to be fix, cause it seems like it need a huge reparation problem. Thanks, warm greetings and love from Indonesia 

sorry for bad English 

IMG_20170525_204757_zpshldl5gil.jpgIMG_20170525_204650_zpsxvrtlhvp.jpg

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welcome to the forum.  your watch has a very interesting dial.  can you find a watch maker to appraise it?

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Dear Jesaya, welcome to the Forum and thank you for such in interesting introductory post.:)

I have been doing some research into your fascinating pocket watch, and although I am not yet able to tell you a great deal about it, may I make some suggestions.

Firstly, I believe that the Western European national flag on the dial is that of the Netherlands rather than Luxembourg, because the Netherlands and Turkey have a long history of diplomatic and economic relations. Also, while the Luxembourg flag was first used in about 1845, its use was not officially ratified until 1972. I feel that if the joint flags of Turkey and the Netherlands are a trade mark then it will be of the retailer/wholesaler of the watch, no doubt conducting trade between the two countries.  

Secondly, there is a history, and quite a few surviving watches, showing that a number of watch companies were making pocket watches for use by the Turkish railways during the time period of your own watch. In particular, the Cortebert company in Switzerland made good quality railway watches for Turkey.

Your watch seems to have what I would term a generic movement of rather moderate quality, and the watch is certainly from the earlier part of the 20th century - c.1920s.

I believe that the use of the term "LEVIE WATCH" indicates that your timepiece may originate in the United States. The name, "Levie," seems to be an essentially American surname, and a case maker of the name, Bernard Levy, is known to have been working in Philadelphia in the late 1870s.  It may seem trivial, but using the term "Watch" instead of "Watch Company" is an Americanism that still occurs today in text about American watches.

If you could retake your pics so that more detail is revealed, we might be able to find out more about this watch. It is true that a proper renovation of your watch would probably be rather expensive, but I would certainly urge you to keep this interesting bit of watch history even in its present condition.

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13 hours ago, vinn said:

welcome to the forum.  your watch has a very interesting dial.  can you find a watch maker to appraise it?

Hi Vinnie, Not yet but i desperately want to know the value of this art of time. 

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14 hours ago, Always"watching" said:

Dear Jesaya, welcome to the Forum and thank you for such in interesting introductory post.:)

I have been doing some research into your fascinating pocket watch, and although I am not yet able to tell you a great deal about it, may I make some suggestions.

Firstly, I believe that the Western European national flag on the dial is that of the Netherlands rather than Luxembourg, because the Netherlands and Turkey have a long history of diplomatic and economic relations. Also, while the Luxembourg flag was first used in about 1845, its use was not officially ratified until 1972. I feel that if the joint flags of Turkey and the Netherlands are a trade mark then it will be of the retailer/wholesaler of the watch, no doubt conducting trade between the two countries.  

Secondly, there is a history, and quite a few surviving watches, showing that a number of watch companies were making pocket watches for use by the Turkish railways during the time period of your own watch. In particular, the Cortebert company in Switzerland made good quality railway watches for Turkey.

Your watch seems to have what I would term a generic movement of rather moderate quality, and the watch is certainly from the earlier part of the 20th century - c.1920s.

I believe that the use of the term "LEVIE WATCH" indicates that your timepiece may originate in the United States. The name, "Levie," seems to be an essentially American surname, and a case maker of the name, Bernard Levy, is known to have been working in Philadelphia in the late 1870s.  It may seem trivial, but using the term "Watch" instead of "Watch Company" is an Americanism that still occurs today in text about American watches.

If you could retake your pics so that more detail is revealed, we might be able to find out more about this watch. It is true that a proper renovation of your watch would probably be rather expensive, but I would certainly urge you to keep this interesting bit of watch history even in its present condition.

Hi,  thanks for the big effort you have put to my question, I have learn a lot things from you're research, I agree with you I guess this watch is handmade cause I couldn't find any serial number or any info on the watch, hopefully you can give me speculation price for this piece that would be great :)

And I just learned that the face of the watch could be open here the open face photo

IMG-20170528-WA0007_zpsbt4na9ag.jpgIMG-20170528-WA0008_zpszyf4cyr7.jpg

IMG-20170528-WA0009_zpsa36p0bso.jpg

These some better resolution from earlier photos

 IMG-20170528-WA0004_zpslmfofkbv.jpg

IMG-20170528-WA0003_zpslyp699uf.jpgIMG-20170528-WA0006_zpshc0hazqa.jpg

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The flags are the Hungarian and the Turkish  (though otherwise). I think this PW was made for Túrán a political-cultural association in Budapest, which promotes friendship between Turkey and Hungary.
The movement called the Roskopf system was built by Baumgartner Freres of Grenchen Swiss. This was the most low grade and consequently a very poor value.

Many of these Roskopf Systems had fantasy names and rarely were registered. So difficult to identify.

regards enrico

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23 minutes ago, eri231 said:

The flags are the Hungarian and the Turkish  (though otherwise). I think this PW was made for Túrán a political-cultural association in Budapest, which promotes friendship between Turkey and Hungary.
The movement called the Roskopf system was built by Baumgartner Freres of Grenchen Swiss. This was the most low grade and consequently a very poor value.

Many of these Roskopf Systems had fantasy names and rarely were registered. So difficult to identify.

regards enrico

Thanks for the thought :)

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Thanks for clarifying details of the movement, dear Enrico. However, I do disagree with you about the non-Turkish flag and still feel that it is the national flag of the Netherlands. What I do find interesting is the small bit of what appears to be Arabic writing between the two flags, which is now easier to see thanks to the new pictures from Jasaya. Anyone know what it means?

Also, the new pics reveal more clearly the belted "Railway Engineer's Watch" emblem on the back of the watch and the novel shape of the back spur to the minute hand, intriguing details that just refuse to give up their secrets. This watch is a real puzzle and I now wonder which railway system the watch was intended for, if any. Fascinating stuff.:)

 

 

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The Turkish flag is inverted dx and sx.

"Railway Engineer's Watch" had no relationship with the railways was just to deceive the customers

regards enrico

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