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Quality Chinese

8K views 24 replies 17 participants last post by  Caller. 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I probably spend more time than is healthy studying "new" technology,and what I have noticed is; anything Swiss and there is always a huge flurry on the various online review sites, whereas, Chinese, very little other than posts on the favourably biased forums. So rather than dismiss all Chinese horology as junk, here's a couple of movements that interest me.

Liaoning Peacock SL6601, 70 hours power reserve, 31 jewels, 28,800 bph, quickset date , small second's at 9 and a power reserve indicator.

5d12da5253f359d2612aad000d3e9a51.jpg


and, the Beijing Watch Factory SB18 (allegedly based on a Miyota 81200). Manual wind, hacking, 21600 bph,

09b4ed8b8134fdc989d8d4bce00e0f5c.jpg


Watches equipped with these movements seem to fall into a price range of £300-£350, and special limited editions can be much more. Like this 38mm Maison Celadon for around £850 plus import duties etc.

imperial-red_720x.jpg?v=1501087526


maisonceladon-imperialmovement1_2372f137


Its too easy for the unqualified to dismiss all Chinese products as junk. So anybody got one with either of these movements ? Incidentally the manufacturer of the "Celadon" offer a ten year global warranty, confidence, or factored in to the purchase price ?
 
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#2 · (Edited by Moderator)
Having tinkered with all sorts of watches and movements from cheap to a bit more pricey I would say that regardless of how good looking these movements are they will not match the quality, finishing and finesse of swiss movements. Not only that but they also won't last you for 50 years even if unserviced like many Swiss movements will.

They are specifically made to look nice and interesting and copy the swiss movements (or the japanese high end ones) but they're not the same thing.

There's a reason one costs (talking about actual costs not the inflated retail price) 50$ and the other costs 1,000$.

You can buy a 3$ chinese bamboo spatula and it'll perform identical to the one in Ikea that you get for 15$ but watches are a lot more complicated than that.

Both a cheap and an expensive watch will tell the time the same way but will they both function unscathed for a long period of time ? :tongue:
 
#3 ·
Both a cheap and an expensive watch will tell the time the same way but will they both function unscathed for a long period of time ?
This may well be. In the case of some other products,Chinese manufacturers will supply quality in relation to price, meaning, if you want quality, you will get it if you pay for it. I had a lengthy discussion on this very topic with a retailer, whose take on it was that the Chinese are more than capable of producing quality comparable with anything coming out of Switzerland, but what they lack is brand image and heritage, which is possibly closer to the truth in terms of marketing. Another worrying/interesting trend I've noticed is that the replica market that were selling fakes boasting genuine Swiss movements are now using "high grade" clone, Chinese movements.
 
#4 ·
Hi,

About the SL6601 - let me show my Chinese sub-forum watch, project 2016, variant "Classic".

IMG_20171207_133501.jpg

Due voting three variants were selected for production. They are so different, that I'd say they are three different models, than variants of one model (like previous projects, where the difference was only in color of the dial)

WUS2016.jpg

All they are equipped with Liaoning Peacock SL6601. It's a new movement, larger than usual (36 mm). All the watches with larger cases, but with smaller calibers, suffer the 'strange' date window position, too far from the edge. Here the date window is in normal position at 6. The bigger size also let the power reserve to be increased dramatically, up to 72 hours. Of course, this has to be shown :), so the power reserve indicator took place at 3, while the small seconds hand is at 9.

As usual, the design is custom, chosen with many votes. The combination of the white 'spirograph' dial, elegant font 'Berlin' (especially with red 12), and vintage-styled hands creates a beautiful retro feeling. Strange for me, a modern case was chosen, but fortunately there was no problem my classic example to be swapped with the 'pilot' case, which looks much more vintage. A wristshot:

IMG_20171207_133451.jpg

The glass is slight domed sapphire, without anti-reflex (or if there is, it's not noticeable :) ), which prevents the beautiful guiloche dial from being seen. But at the evening time it looks really amazing.

IMG_20171207_133519.jpg

Well, here's the movement, so beautiful, and pity it can't be visible all the time :)

IMG_20171207_133617.jpg IMG_20171207_133631.jpg

What more to say? About the longevity of the Chinese movements, the ST5 from Seagull is an excellent example, developed 50 or 60 years ago, but still working precisely and reliable (even it was used in Project 2014).

Regards, Miro.
 
#5 ·
the ST5 from Seagull is an excellent example, developed 50 or 60 years ago, but still working precisely and reliable
Agreed, I have two which are excellent, and older DongFeng's The project "SL6601" is one I have read and very interesting/positive it is, but is "sold" to a positively receptive audience, which is not a bad thing. The main problem I have with buying anything more expensive Chinese is what happens if it goes wrong ? A lot of watchmakers don't want to know, and there are a few horror stories of watches disappearing, held up in customs, etc etc that have been sent back.
 
#6 ·
The Beijing watch movement you posted was reviewed quite well on WUS some years ago I was going to get one when they were about £120 as I was keen to try out something different and a supposed in house movement.

What I soon started to discover online though was the movement may well be Citizen or at least based on a citizen movement. Secondly the number of QC issues just seemed to mount up which soon put me off buying.

Pity really but this is the major problem with Chinese movements and watches the QC issues are numerous.
 
#7 · (Edited by Moderator)
Funny,

I've had and still have, a number of Chinese watches. Never had a problem with any of them.

Some of the movements are Seagull, some are a cloned 7750, and some are a cloned 2824-2. I've yet to have one fail, and no servicing whatsoever.

As inferred previously, the Chinese are more than capable of making quality items. Cheap does not always mean poor quality with Chinese goods.
 
#9 ·
To many people are prepared to slag off Chinese products, but many of them are a carrying an I phone, and half their electronic equipment is made in China. The Chinese will make you what you want. If you want a quality watch, they will make it, if you want a cheap bit of cr@p they will make that as well. Most of the reason Chinese products are cheap is because the labour costs are cheap. There are Seagull movements that are absolute replicas of ETA movements, to the point parts are interchangeable. I own several Chinese watches, and swear by Parnis. They are well put together, they look fantastic, and the movements are accurate and reliable. It's true to say that you can't compare a £60 Parnis with a £5k Omega, but what would you expect. However, in my opinion a £60 Parnis is significantly better than a £60 Seiko or Citizen. Others will argue this. It's true that if I decided to wear one of my Parnis watches every day for the next twenty years, they would either die or look awful, but as I only wear any of my watches no more than once a month, I can see them all outliving me :huh:
 
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#11 ·
To be honest, more than 80% watches & components are made in China. generally we have 3-levels quality on prodcutions market.

- 1st level is the big factories who produce branded watches, they mainly manufacture the parts such as case, dial, hands, strap, packing etc, as the brand need to be Made in swiss / UK /Japan, the movt and assemble must done by local country, material covers 316L /titanium G5/ Brozne / Carbon. has more than 200 employees, the quality are quite good and stable.

- 2nd level is the middle factory and Chinese brands. offer OEM Service and produce their own brand. mainly are steel,around 50-150 employees.afforadble price and accepteable quality

- 3rd leavel is the small factories making alloy /Bamboo/ wood etc fashion watches, hard to say the quality, because some factories are really few people and no quality control but some are combined with middle level factories the quality is not bad at all.

Hello from China and Have a nice day to all !

TB2srH1XbwrBKNjSZPcXXXpapXa_!!3481486518
 
#22 ·
To be honest, more than 80% watches & components are made in China. generally we have 3-levels quality on prodcutions market.

- 1st level is the big factories who produce branded watches, they mainly manufacture the parts such as case, dial, hands, strap, packing etc, as the brand need to be Made in swiss / UK /Japan, the movt and assemble must done by local country, material covers 316L /titanium G5/ Brozne / Carbon. has more than 200 employees, the quality are quite good and stable.

- 2nd level is the middle factory and Chinese brands. offer OEM Service and produce their own brand. mainly are steel,around 50-150 employees.afforadble price and accepteable quality

- 3rd leavel is the small factories making alloy /Bamboo/ wood etc fashion watches, hard to say the quality, because some factories are really few people and no quality control but some are combined with middle level factories the quality is not bad at all.

Hello from China and Have a nice day to all !
I have to say, many thanks for clarifying that for me too Sophy. I have owned a few of the 1st and 2nd level watches you mentioned and the quality was excellent. Not sure about the long-term durability compared to other brands as I only had them for a few years.
 
#12 ·
What an interesting thread. My own contribution is hardly significant compared to the knowledge and wisdom expressed here by various Forum members. I have found that in the world of quartz analogue chronographs, it took a surprisingly long time before the Chinese were using a domestically manufactured movement that could compete with the Japanese calibers. Also, in my experience of buying cheaper Chinese watches, it is evident that when even the more standard Chinese movements are incorporated into watches produced and marketed by decent companies, they can be produced to a suitably high standard and function fine.
 
#18 ·
Service when you got them? Just to confirm they're not borked up?

And more relevant I guess, who do you use to service potentially slightly weird movements, or are they using miyota/eta? I have a fledgling interested in some of the Chinese products but wasnt sure if I would be getting them looked at over here for less than the cost of the watch.
 
#19 ·
I have a fledgling interested in some of the Chinese products but wasnt sure if I would be getting them looked at over here for less than the cost of the watch.
Seagull ST5 movements have been reliable in my case, and accurate. Servicing costs are probably not economic if your rational. I've had mine serviced a couple of times. The seller I bought them from in Shanghai, advised, although new, they should be oiled etc, as they'd been lying around for years. The watchmaker confirmed this.
 
#21 ·
I probably spend more time than is healthy studying "new" technology,and what I have noticed is; anything Swiss and there is always a huge flurry on the various online review sites, whereas, Chinese, very little other than posts on the favourably biased forums. So rather than dismiss all Chinese horology as junk, here's a couple of movements that interest me.

Liaoning Peacock SL6601, 70 hours power reserve, 31 jewels, 28,800 bph, quickset date , small second's at 9 and a power reserve indicator.

5d12da5253f359d2612aad000d3e9a51.jpg

and, the Beijing Watch Factory SB18 (allegedly based on a Miyota 81200). Manual wind, hacking, 21600 bph,

09b4ed8b8134fdc989d8d4bce00e0f5c.jpg

Watches equipped with these movements seem to fall into a price range of £300-£350, and special limited editions can be much more. Like this 38mm Maison Celadon for around £850 plus import duties etc.

imperial-red_720x.jpg?v=1501087526

maisonceladon-imperialmovement1_2372f137

Its too easy for the unqualified to dismiss all Chinese products as junk. So anybody got one with either of these movements ? Incidentally the manufacturer of the "Celadon" offer a ten year global warranty, confidence, or factored in to the purchase price ?
Yeah, I really like these movements a lot. I looked at a couple with the 70 hour power reserve, just nothing quite what I would want, but someday I'm very sure I'll have a watch with this movement.

Thanks for the info!
 
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