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fredwastell

No more whaling

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A little bit off the watch wall, but when I found out that Japan was resuming whaling, I was moved to send an email to the Seiko Head Office in Maidenhead, protesting against this (in my opinion) barbaric practice. Perhaps others would agree with me and follow suit.  

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I'd need to look more into it. I'm very curious as to why they'd renew this. I've got no bleeding heart, I'm not even one to care about preserving species, but if there's no need to hunt, then I say don't. Killing should never be done for sport, in my eyes. It's the next step to a society of psychopaths, and we've already taken a few that direction throughout history.

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I completely agree with Fred. I don't see whay they have to be hunted, leave them alone and let them live and breed. Hasn't the human race done enough damage not only to one another and the planet but creatures of the sea and the animal world. There was a young girl who spoke out at a summit about what damage is being done and we will have to tell our children and grandchildren it was our fault for not acting sooner to sort it. 

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Completely agree that whaling should be stopped. However, I'm not sure what writing Seiko a letter will achieve (and why not Citizen or Casio)? Aren't they backing initiatives like "Save The Ocean" already?  

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Interesting article about Japanese whaling:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35397749

"But Junko Sakuma thinks the answer lies in the fact that Japan's whaling is government-run, a large bureaucracy with research budgets, annual plans, promotions and pensions.

"If the number of staff in a bureaucrat's office decreases while they are in charge, they feel tremendous shame," she says.

"Which means most of the bureaucrats will fight to keep the whaling section in their ministry at all costs. And that is true with the politicians as well. If the issue is closely related to their constituency, they will promise to bring back commercial whaling. It is a way of keeping their seats."

It may seem incredibly banal. But Japan's determination to continue whaling may come down to a handful of MPs from whaling constituencies and a few hundred bureaucrats who don't want to see their budgets cut."

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3 minutes ago, russelk said:

Interesting article about Japanese whaling:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35397749

"But Junko Sakuma thinks the answer lies in the fact that Japan's whaling is government-run, a large bureaucracy with research budgets, annual plans, promotions and pensions.

"If the number of staff in a bureaucrat's office decreases while they are in charge, they feel tremendous shame," she says.

"Which means most of the bureaucrats will fight to keep the whaling section in their ministry at all costs. And that is true with the politicians as well. If the issue is closely related to their constituency, they will promise to bring back commercial whaling. It is a way of keeping their seats."

It may seem incredibly banal. But Japan's determination to continue whaling may come down to a handful of MPs from whaling constituencies and a few hundred bureaucrats who don't want to see their budgets cut."

Yup, sounds about right and on par with the way things always go in government.

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It’s amazing the utter stupidity behind some behavior. 

I know that Japanese companies tend to be multi layered and be involved in lots of disparate sectors so does anyone know if the watch makers are connected to whalers?

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My feeling on this is that Japan has had plenty of time to get whale hunting out of its system such that it is no longer part of their culture. Hunting whales is now surely best regarded by modern humans as being the murder of sentient creatures who contribute greatly to the zoological wealth of the planet, and just because some whale species have regained their previous numbers does not mean we should automatically start hunting them again. After all, who in their right mind would agree to hunt down humans on the grounds that they are a common species - we don't even agree to that with common bird species in the UK.

I do realise that we are an omnivorous species and that, in general, the eating of meat and fish have been an essential part of most human food cultures since time immemorial. It would therefore be hypocritical of me, as a meat and fish eater, to condemn outright the consumption of these products. However, some lines need to be drawn, and as we gradually come to realise that sentience and even consciousness extend really quite far down the animal kingdom. it is likely, and to be hoped for, that more and more animals will become valued as living partners on the planet rather than fodder for us to eat and make other products from.

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23 hours ago, Always"watching" said:

My feeling on this is that Japan has had plenty of time to get whale hunting out of its system such that it is no longer part of their culture. Hunting whales is now surely best regarded by modern humans as being the murder of sentient creatures who contribute greatly to the zoological wealth of the planet, and just because some whale species have regained their previous numbers does not mean we should automatically start hunting them again. After all, who in their right mind would agree to hunt down humans on the grounds that they are a common species - we don't even agree to that with common bird species in the UK.

I do realise that we are an omnivorous species and that, in general, the eating of meat and fish have been an essential part of most human food cultures since time immemorial. It would therefore be hypocritical of me, as a meat and fish eater, to condemn outright the consumption of these products. However, some lines need to be drawn, and as we gradually come to realise that sentience and even consciousness extend really quite far down the animal kingdom. it is likely, and to be hoped for, that more and more animals will become valued as living partners on the planet rather than fodder for us to eat and make other products from.

 Very well said mate. 

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On 29/12/2018 at 15:47, Always"watching" said:

After all, who in their right mind would agree to hunt down humans on the grounds that they are a common species

No need to hunt other humans - we seem to manage to kill enough through wars, genocide etc.

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Well I am from a family of hunters. Humans seem to enjoy hunting, at least most cultures do, because we all eat meat. I don't think that there's anything inhumane about it, it's just nature. Some make it sport and I get looking down on that a bit, but in all honesty, we hunt, kill, harvest, use, and eat. We don't eat each other, but there are plenty of other animals that would gladly, and do indeed do so, when given the opportunity. It's fair play in nature.

I mean honestly, where's the high horse here? Unless you're a vegan you should really step down from the soapbox and stop casting stones in that glass house. The way we treat the farm animals that later become our food isn't any better, in fact I would consider it worse, as they exist in a state of lifelong imprisonment before we decide to puncture their brains with a bolt of air, strip their hides for use in our garments, harvest their fat for use in our solvents, and butcher their flesh for prepackaged food products for human consumption.

Seriously, I just don't get this kind of thinking. Personally, I won't hunt, not because I'm against it for it's treatment of innocent animals, although that's a very small part of my consideration. Mostly it's because I have people who do the hard stuff for me at farms and I just have to pick it up at the store or pay for it already prepared in a restaurant. I feel no sorrow or sympathy at all. It's natural selection.

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On 30/12/2018 at 18:12, richy176 said:

No need to hunt other humans - we seem to manage to kill enough through wars, genocide etc.

Just another form of "hunting". Perhaps if we were equally fussy about treatment towards our fellow man as we are to animals, the world might be a slightly better place. Dundee was famous for whaling, times and attitudes change (sometimes for the better)

https://www.fdca.org.uk/Whaling_Industry.html

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Well I.... like the sperm whale....am kinda fond of eating squid....the Humboldt squid seems to have taken over the sea of cortez as top predator....and is becoming cannibalistic....in its demand for food...the need for whale oil...for soap...and oil lamps....is no longer a necessity ...so ...perhaps verdegreas...(that whale ear wax stuff used in perfumes)...is the prize?....Maybe some deal between Mexico and Japan....perhaps a bit like offsetting carbon footprints ....3 crates of squid for japan...for every whale they don't kill...sounds a bit like a protection racket....but surely Japan 's economy isn't that bad that they need to kill whales to feed themselves?

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It's disgusting but so are lots of things that humans do to animals and most countries have there own nasty peccadilloes. 

If we tried boycottiing Japanese goods we'd soon hit hurdles, I've tried. 

I don't think animals are a better species than a lot of animals anyway. 

17 hours ago, WRENCH said:

Just another form of "hunting". Perhaps if we were equally fussy about treatment towards our fellow man as we are to animals, the world might be a slightly better place. Dundee was famous for whaling, times and attitudes change (sometimes for the better)

https://www.fdca.org.uk/Whaling_Industry.html

Perhaps if we were equally fussy about treatment towards our fellow man as we are to animals, the world might be a slightly better place. 

 

People who're fussy about treating SOME animals, maybe

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This thread has developed as I thought it might, with the seemingly impossible attempt to somehow "square the circle" with regard to how and if we should use certain animals as food and other products. I feel that @JayDeep has expressed this dilemma very well in his post above, and as I also indicated, it is so easy to be hypocritical when stating the case for animal rights while being a meat eater and a user of animal products. I recently read a marvellous book that centred on the subject of cephalopods - especially the fascinating lives of octopuses and cuttlefish. As we progress in our understanding of animal intelligence, including the findings with regard to the most intelligent cephalopod species, I personally am finding it harder to justify the killing of such animals. Nevertheless, it did not stop me from having a risotto containing squid for Christmas Eve at our local Italian restaurant, and I am aware of the dilemma entailed in decisions about how we behave as individuals and societies. Sometimes we may need a shove in the right direction as a society in order to be more aware of our environment and our animal (and plant) cohorts on this increasingly vulnerable planet.

Finally, I wholeheartedly endorse the comment by @WRENCH concerning the way that we treat our fellow man - mending our ways in this department would probably have a knock-on effect on the way that we treat and respect all animal and plant life.

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I've been in close proximity to both an octopuss and cuttlefish in the French med, whilst I will eat octopuss it was great to observe and interact with one in their habitat, in the sense we were aware of each other. The locals spear them and they enter our food chain. The cuttlefish was a funny one, I tried to spook it by moving my feet close to it to get a reaction, it stood it's ground and saw me off. Fascinating changes of shading/ colour in their bodies. There is a massive gap between live animals and food in packets thankfully. 

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21 hours ago, JayDeep said:

Well I am from a family of hunters. Humans seem to enjoy hunting, at least most cultures do, because we all eat meat. I don't think that there's anything inhumane about it, it's just nature. Some make it sport and I get looking down on that a bit, but in all honesty, we hunt, kill, harvest, use, and eat. We don't eat each other, but there are plenty of other animals that would gladly, and do indeed do so, when given the opportunity. It's fair play in nature.

I mean honestly, where's the high horse here? Unless you're a vegan you should really step down from the soapbox and stop casting stones in that glass house. The way we treat the farm animals that later become our food isn't any better, in fact I would consider it worse, as they exist in a state of lifelong imprisonment before we decide to puncture their brains with a bolt of air, strip their hides for use in our garments, harvest their fat for use in our solvents, and butcher their flesh for prepackaged food products for human consumption.

Seriously, I just don't get this kind of thinking. Personally, I won't hunt, not because I'm against it for it's treatment of innocent animals, although that's a very small part of my consideration. Mostly it's because I have people who do the hard stuff for me at farms and I just have to pick it up at the store or pay for it already prepared in a restaurant. I feel no sorrow or sympathy at all. It's natural selection.

Yes most of us accept hunting to a degree, we are carnivoures anyway and eating meat is a way of life, its when endangered species are hunted almost to extinction that gets people angry.......people who are otherwise blase about hunting in general.

Oddly though certain animals are culled as its suppose to help preserve the species.

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While I wholeheartedly agree with the hunting sentiment, please don't make me listen to anymore 'whalesong'....the missus used to have it on when she was preggers...hopefully they have something better these days...I couldn't put up with all that banal whooping and wailing (whaling?) again...I can listen to Morrisey or Adele if I feel the need to self harm or commit it.

:laughing2dw:

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I think a letter to the Japanese ambassador in London is a better idea than writing to Seiko

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Folks, can any of you remember seeing such as thoughtful, respectful and considered a discussion as this on any other forum? It hasn’t descended into insult nor are people intractable in their positions. Thank you all for giving me some food for thought on this topic. 

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On 27/12/2018 at 11:35, fredwastell said:

A little bit off the watch wall, but when I found out that Japan was resuming whaling, I was moved to send an email to the Seiko Head Office in Maidenhead, protesting against this (in my opinion) barbaric practice. Perhaps others would agree with me and follow suit.  

What does a watch company have to do with whaling or even more so their UK based office?

 

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