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JayDeep

$1100 quartz

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What is it about a watch that the manufacturer thinks it's at all acceptable to charge $1100 for a quartz movement?

What an I missing here guys? Do these expensive quartz actually have seconds hands that land on the markers? Is that really worth the gigantic price gouge?

What's different between a super expensive quartz and the every day, common Miyota or Chinese junker?

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I was shopping yesterday and was naturally distracted by a watch boutiques window, whilst I was browsing a bunch of 'bling' watches I came across one that was moving and to my horror ticking :scared:  And the price tag: £3000

frontpac_carlfbucherer_717076_00.10301.03.27.01.jpg

 

But to your point though, if you think about it what is that great about automatics?  Rolexes for example charges £8000+ for a sub but the gut is still a mass produced movement which is why Rolexes don't have a display case-back, they don't want you to look at it.  So at that price point, what is the difference in swapping out a (supposedly) £200 worth of mass produced movement for a £50 good quartz that can:

  • Keep time better (high frequency ones can be within 10 second off a year)
  • No servicing cost other than battery change
  • Less scary hand over to a well off customer like 'don't set the date if the time hand is any near 8pm to midnight or it'll break!'

So only issue in reality is the ticking second hand which many people don't mind.  I think if you're a watch manufacturer you have to have quartz at the higher end of the range, simply because people who splash out on watches are not necessarily WIS.  They want a fashion/money statement, not a piece of machinery that needs care and wastes your time setting it when you want to wear it.
 

Looking at it from a different angle, it is much harder to apply 'craft' to a mechanical movement than the dial.  And people generally appreciate craft to the dial more so we tend to see expensive watches to have beautiful crafted dials with mass produced movement.  I cannot think of a watch with hand crafted movement but a generic dial.  To have both elements crafted, we're heading straight to Patek territory and we're talking £10000+.

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1 hour ago, yip_london said:

But to your point though, if you think about it what is that great about automatics?  Rolexes for example charges £8000+ for a sub but the gut is still a mass produced movement which is why Rolexes don't have a display case-back, they don't want you to look at it.  So at that price point, what is the difference in swapping out a (supposedly) £200 worth of mass produced movement for a £50 good quartz 

 

:hmmm9uh:Submariner movement

That looks a bit more complex and expensive to manufacture than a quartz movement.

All modern mechanical watches have value added from being over-engineered. What’s exciting is not necessarily that a watch is accurate (my phone is accurate), it’s that a spring and a series of gears, often put together by a human hand, delivers similar levels of accuracy.

To your point @JayDeep the price of quartz watches are probably more heavily influenced by demand (e.g. what’s currently on trend and being backed by heavy marketing, the popularity of the brand pumping it out etc) and in some instances the quality of the dial, case, hands etc.

As a side note I’d happily pay over $1,100 for a Spring Drive :yes:

 

Edited by Seikotherapy
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3 hours ago, JayDeep said:

What is it about a watch that the manufacturer thinks it's at all acceptable to charge $1100 for a quartz movement?

What an I missing here guys? Do these expensive quartz actually have seconds hands that land on the markers? Is that really worth the gigantic price gouge?

What's different between a super expensive quartz and the every day, common Miyota or Chinese junker?

Probably the same thinking that would want them to charge $1200 or $1300 for the same watch with an automatic movement from ETA etc. The case, bracelet etc will all be the same so any price difference would come down to the movement cost and that might not be very much.

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The difference in price between a mech and quartz movement is probably of the order of a couple of hundred quid, depending on the movement of course. Many sellers of high end watches eg Omega tend to price the quartz about that amount less which seems pretty fair to me. If you don't like it, don't buy one.

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3 hours ago, JayDeep said:

What is it about a watch that the manufacturer thinks it's at all acceptable to charge $1100 for a quartz movement?

What an I missing here guys? Do these expensive quartz actually have seconds hands that land on the markers? Is that really worth the gigantic price gouge?

What's different between a super expensive quartz and the every day, common Miyota or Chinese junker?

Nobody has to buy them. Same question could be asked about these two.large.IMG_20181031_075223_kindlephoto-595136.jpg.28de62b0680508a980e3b6712cc857c9.jpglarge.1522832412633-1727849408.jpg.9774cf832d32fa4dd2bc785f0a322ec2.jpg

Only £1725 worth of difference.

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I am having thes ame problem with my wife, she terribly wanted the new Cartier small size for women, but at this price with a simply quartz I told her: No....

Saying that if we consider that Grand Seiko is quartz, then I say Yes :)

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1 hour ago, Seikotherapy said:

What’s exciting is not necessarily that a watch is accurate (my phone is accurate), it’s that a spring and a series of gears, often put together by a human hand, delivers similar levels of accuracy.

What's exciting...to you...(well most of us on here) but not necessarily to everybody. Let's face it, mechanical movements even with the recent revival in interest, are still a niche product. The vast majority of people who buy watches buy quartz because by any sensible definition they do a better job, and of that big majority, some want to buy a nicer quality watch - so why wouldn't manufacturers give that choice in their more expensive ranges.

 

4 hours ago, JayDeep said:

What is it about a watch that the manufacturer thinks it's at all acceptable to charge $1100 for a quartz movement?

Not charging $1100 for a quartz movement, charging £1100 for a watch with a quartz movement in it. So presumably the $1100 goes the same way as the (much bigger) price differential between a Steinhart running an ETA 2824 and an early Black Bay running basically the same movement, or even a peanuts Starking or a Seiko Samurai running the same Seiko movement.

..Now if the rest of the watch is also naff then there are issues, but if the quality is good, fair enough, there are plenty of watch manufacturers who think it's OK to charge 4 figure sums for better cases/bracelets etc. with the same movement on board.

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4 minutes ago, Perlative Cernometer said:

there are plenty of watch manufacturers who think it's OK to charge 4 figure sums for better cases/bracelets etc. with the same movement on board.

Sometimes the difference in quality can be negligible, brand "placement" , heritage, stupidity ( I'm guilty) all plays its part. :yes:

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3 minutes ago, WRENCH said:

Sometimes the difference in quality can be negligible, brand "placement" , heritage, stupidity ( I'm guilty) all plays its part. :yes:

Or that:thumbsup: I was being generous:wink:

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I would (and have) paid more than I otherwise would for a smooth sweep, high frequency quartz. However, when I say I've paid more I mean around £300-£400 in total. I don't think I'd pay more than that for a quartz. 

However, I can see what it is that's selling them. If someone wants a "good" brand watch for just over £1,000 then Tag have plenty of watches on offer. Unless you've an interest in watches then the movement means nothing. I suspect the majority of people buying a Tag quartz probably don't know what an automatic watch is, nor do they care. They just want a luxury name on their wrist. 

Massive generalisation? Possibly, but possibly not...

:evil9kf:

Just now, alxbly said:

However, when I say I've paid more I mean around £300-£400 in total. I don't think I'd pay more than that for a quartz. 

 

Says the man who just recently bought a Casio G-Shock "Full Metal" square for £450... :ooops:

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1 hour ago, rafy1 said:

I am having thes ame problem with my wife, she terribly wanted the new Cartier small size for women, but at this price with a simply quartz I told her: No....

Saying that if we consider that Grand Seiko is quartz, then I say Yes :)

Brave man,I never say no to my wife,more than my miserable carcass is worth:bash:

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1 hour ago, Bonzodog said:

Brave man,I never say no to my wife,more than my miserable carcass is worth:bash:

I never have to. :laughing2dw:

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My tag 2000 is still ticking away after many battery changes. What were they using in the 90s ? It hits some of the markers but more importantly is consistently better than 2 seconds a month , well worth the over 760 odd quid back in the day :thumbsup:

Thinking grand seiko next , but hopefully a snowflake :whistling:

Edited by Rotundus
What is a marker anyway ?
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I suppose it comes down to the economics of making a small number of high quality quartz movements versus mass produced (but still very good) quartz movements. I have owned a Breitling with a thermocompensated "Superquartz" movement and it was incredibly accurate when measured against a radio controlled clock much more accurate than other quartz movements I have owned.

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It comes to what people are willing to pay. Always does. It's just sad to me that anyone is willing to pay anything near that for a quartz movement.

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some quartz movements are special and some mechanical are not or so i've heard. So you can pay a lot for a watch with a cheap mechanical in it or a lot for a watch with a special quartz, weren't the rolex oyster quartz a bit good and some of the omegas and some of the breitlings and zeniths and even seikos????

I prefer qtz. 

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3 minutes ago, JayDeep said:

It comes to what people are willing to pay. Always does. It's just sad to me that anyone is willing to pay anything near that for a quartz movement.

Don't see a problem - just progress. Digital cameras have virtually taken over from `film' cars no longer have starting handles or chokes  and heaters are no longer optional extras.

How many people (even forum members) could do a detailed review explaining the quality difference between watches at £250; £1000; £2500 and £6000 - not just feels better but actually give details and how that converts into added value. I know I couldn't. :whistle:

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40 minutes ago, JayDeep said:

It comes to what people are willing to pay. Always does. It's just sad to me that anyone is willing to pay anything near that for a quartz movement.

I don't get this argument. The movement is just part of the watch. Besides, many will pay £300+ for a Chinese made automatic that is frankly horrific given the £30 manufacturing costs.... three is nothing romantic about a cheap auto ( mostly ) ...

11 hours ago, yip_london said:

But to your point though, if you think about it what is that great about automatics?  Rolexes for example charges £8000+ for a sub but the gut is still a mass produced movement which is why Rolexes don't have a display case-back, they don't want you to look at it.  So at that price point, what is the difference in swapping out a (supposedly) £200 worth of mass produced movement for a £50 good quartz that can:

  • Keep time better (high frequency ones can be within 10 second off a year)
  • No servicing cost other than battery change
  • Less scary hand over to a well off customer like 'don't set the date if the time hand is any near 8pm to midnight or it'll break!'

 

This is one of the most intelligent posts on here for a while... Submariners are no way worth more than £5k more than Omega divers....

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39 minutes ago, JonnyOldBoy said:

I don't get this argument. The movement is just part of the watch. Besides, many will pay £300+ for a Chinese made automatic that is frankly horrific given the £30 manufacturing costs.... three is nothing romantic about a cheap auto ( mostly ) ...

This is one of the most intelligent posts on here for a while... Submariners are no way worth more than £5k more than Omega divers....

Well, no watch is worth even anywhere near $2k in my book, regardless the movement. So you're all putting words in my mouth that I never said and making comparisons based on huge assumptions which I never asserted or even alluded to.

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So to sum up, there's a real mix of opinions on what is or isn't worth the money even among the few people replying here. So no surprise at all that there's plenty of people who are daft enough to pay over a grand for a quartz, or £300 for a Chinese auto, or 2.5k for an ETA 2824, or 5 figures for a Patek, or Rolex money for a Seiko..etc etc. I suspect the people buying the expensive quartz pieces would be baffled why anyone would pay more for a less accurate auto. Question answered.:thumbsup:

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1 hour ago, JayDeep said:

Well, no watch is worth even anywhere near $2k in my book

Retailing of watches mostly works on the same cost-to-market fractions as any other sector. Generally speaking... if a watch costs $2000, then if its core manufacturing cost is $333.33 then its worth its RRP. Watches are no different than ( say ) sandwich toasters.... If your Sandwich toaster cost $60 then it probably cost $10 ( direct costs ) to manufacturing and hence its great value.

You have to remember that watches are not assembled by volunteers in rent free premises. If it's a Swiss watch then real estate in that Country is not exactly cheap, for example.

I will stand by this : An Omega Seamaster 300M for £2600 ( $3400 ) is infinitely better value than a £270 ( $350 ) chinese made automatic with a "Western" marque ( eg Rotary, Invicta etc etc ).

Value for money is not about the ticket price , its about the ticket price relative to the cost to make aligned with the quality realised.

You are not seeing watches in their full spectrum. There are some watches for $15,000 that are exceptional value for money .... often sat in a boutique next to one for $10,000 that is exceptionally poor value for money.

You can not simplify the complex..... you can claim the complex is simple. Which is not the same thing.

 

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15 minutes ago, JonnyOldBoy said:

Retailing of watches mostly works on the same cost-to-market fractions as any other sector. Generally speaking... if a watch costs $2000, then if its core manufacturing cost is $333.33 then its worth its RRP. Watches are no different than ( say ) sandwich toasters.... If your Sandwich toaster cost $60 then it probably cost $10 ( direct costs ) to manufacturing and hence its great value.

You have to remember that watches are not assembled by volunteers in rent free premises. If it's a Swiss watch then real estate in that Country is not exactly cheap, for example.

I will stand by this : An Omega Seamaster 300M for £2600 ( $3400 ) is infinitely better value than a £270 ( $350 ) chinese made automatic with a "Western" marque ( eg Rotary, Invicta etc etc ).

Value for money is not about the ticket price , its about the ticket price relative to the cost to make aligned with the quality realised.

You are not seeing watches in their full spectrum. There are some watches for $15,000 that are exceptional value for money .... often sat in a boutique next to one for $10,000 that is exceptionally poor value for money.

You can not simplify the complex..... you can claim the complex is simple. Which is not the same thing.

 

Well, again, I get to determine the meaning and value of the word worth, for myself. You are speaking in generalities about market values and common pricing schemes. I simply stated a fact, which can only be determined by me.

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36 minutes ago, JonnyOldBoy said:

Value for money is not about the ticket price , its about the ticket price relative to the cost to make aligned with the quality realised.

You go on to say that it is a complex problem, with which I agree. But in the statement above, I think you may have over simplified the situation. Value for money also involves other factors, such as: efficiency of manufacturing operation; labour and material costs; the quality of design; residual values and "the market".

Just my opinion.

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