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Rolex Daytona fake?????


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Ah, now there we do have photographic proof.

A Website based in a country with virtually no laws banning fraud and contraband and demanding payment upfront for counterfeit items ... what could possibly go wrong !?

I find the constant challenging of reality tiresome....  I know its the engine of Forums ( or is it Fora ) but when hobbyists suddenly become forensic scientists its exhausting....

1 hour ago, WRENCH said:

:hmmm9uh:

Nope, too many loose ends, where's the watch ?

At the bottom of Loch Ness ??? 

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:

This Milton bloke, classic age old smoke mirrors and marketing ploy where although he doesn't actually name anyone, disrespects his fellow professionals by inferring they can't tell the real thing from the urban myth super fake, shows a picture of a box of alledged super fakes, just to add a bit more smoke to the proceedings he doesn't tell you how he knows that they are hooky but if you go and see him no such problems he'll see you right. 

Adds a few important sounding letters after his name to add a bit gravitas and become a Demi God on a tinternet forum. 

Bob's your uncle

I'm surprised people fall for it

As said feel free to call me an old cynic. 

:biggrin:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by BondandBigM
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18 hours ago, IanE said:

I've seen a lot of Rolex fakes and one of the things they all had in common was the way the model number and serial number was 'stamped' between the lugs..

I'm not sure how to describe it but think of it as a "Font". The Rolex 'font' between the lugs is very thin, the characters are carved, etched or whatever with a very fine line. The fakes, on the other hand, had similar numbers, correct model numbers etc but the text was just kind of "Stamped" in with a bold font.

I really can't describe it. You'd need to see them side by side. I don't know how Rolex put those numbers between the lugs, Maybe using a laser cutter or some super fine engraving tool but that tool is probably quite expensive.

On the other hand, it is quite a while ago since I looked closely at fake rolex  so maybe nowadays even the fakers have access to super fine engraving tools.

 

 

I recently viewed a Submariner with a Seadweller ref number being advertised on Shpock...usually fakes have etched serial numbers etc where Genuine are engraved....but by no means take this as the final word on proving anything ..there is so much more to learn when buying any Rolex other than New....the watch may have been serviced by Rolex but had many components changed ReDials, Hands changed, Bracelets replaced etc etc etc which will all have a negative effect on its originality and resale value...... my only advice is buy the seller unless you are 100% you know what you are doing.

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On 06/02/2019 at 20:42, Col81 said:

My friend has bought a Daytona in a private sale. What are the tell tale signs that it may be fake? It looks very real but with so many fakes he just wants to know the few Mark's on the watch that show it is authentic? Any suggestions would be appreciated

Whenever I walk into Watches of Switzerland, just browsing while the missus is doing her shopping elsewhere in town, the WOS guys immediately offer to "Polish your watch sir?" and they whisk it off into the backroom to do whatever it is they do. I don't know if there's a wise old watchmaker back there who would spot a fake or whether they'd happily polish a turd and bring it back without saying anything.

I'd say walk into any authorized dealership for a browse wearing a daytona and the staff will be all over you and you'll know soon enough.

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Interestingly when I had a rush of blood to the head and thought about selling my pair, out of curiosity I tried a couple of local we buy anything sort places. Neither of them asked if they could open them, they just had a look although one of them did use a loup. Both made offers on the spot. 

One of them, a very nice lady who maybe felt sorry for me :laughing2dw: did quietly suggest their offer was rubbish and suggested a local guy who would probably be interested and give a fairer price. 

I phoned him and the first thing he said was that he would have to open them for a look see, fair enough but when I took them down to him obviously I expressed a bit of concern he just took them out of the boxes saw all the supporting paperwork had a quick shufty and nodded knowingly, no problems sir but he did say it was company policy to have a look see inside. Fair play to the bloke though

He knew exactly what he was looking at. 

Hence why I don't fall for the line that these alleged dealers, buyer and sellers are getting caught out right left and center all over the place with fakos. Not to say it doesn't happen at all but ............ 

A bit like people forming an opinion on a motor just because Jeremy Clarkson gobbed of about it, some people have been spending to much time believing everything that's on the tinternet or watching to many of those pawn shop programs. 

I wonder how many of the hoardes of Milton fan boys on the dark side have ever had any dealings with him or for that matter have ever even met him. 

My guess would be not many. 

:biggrin:

 

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7 minutes ago, BondandBigM said:

Interestingly when I had a rush of blood to the head and thought about selling my pair, out of curiosity I tried a couple of local we buy anything sort places. Neither of them asked if they could open them, they just had a look although one of them did use a loup. Both made offers on the spot. 

One of them, a very nice lady who maybe felt sorry for me :laughing2dw: did quietly suggest their offer was rubbish and suggested a local guy who would probably be interested and give a fairer price. 

I phoned him and the first thing he said was that he would have to open them for a look see, fair enough but when I took them down to him obviously I expressed a bit of concern he just took them out of the boxes saw all the supporting paperwork had a quick shufty and nodded knowingly, no problems sir but he did say it was company policy to have a look see inside. Fair play to the bloke though

He knew exactly what he was looking at. 

Hence why I don't fall for the line that these alleged dealers, buyer and sellers are getting caught out right left and center all over the place with fakos. Not to say it doesn't happen at all but ............ 

A bit like people forming an opinion on a motor just because Jeremy Clarkson gobbed of about it, some people have been spending to much time believing everything that's on the tinternet or watching to many of those pawn shop programs. 

I wonder how many of the hoardes of Milton fan boys on the dark side have ever had any dealings with him or for that matter have ever even met him. 

My guess would be not many. 

:biggrin:

 

Do you know, I wondered about this "Dark side" as I didn't know much about it, we have one on the MG/Rover forum world, & having a read around, I formed the same opinion as yourself about this chap, & that's from someone with no knowledge:)

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18 minutes ago, suzublu said:

Do you know, I wondered about this "Dark side" as I didn't know much about it, we have one on the MG/Rover forum world, & having a read around, I formed the same opinion as yourself about this chap, & that's from someone with no knowledge:)

MG Rover !!! 

It's the only time I ever bought a brand new car, I only had it a few months, my ex wife did a runner with it and I never sat in the thing again. 

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:

I'm not an old cynic for no reason

:biggrin:

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On ‎08‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 13:17, apm101 said:

Big thread on this on the Dark Side. Here is a superfake Daytona:

4cd3302e19fc0fa76d9c5b1be8c51fbe.jpg

 

22e097d7619b76e55d08e4fe488e015f.jpg

 

Haywood Milton (who is THE man for Rolex) suggests that the only way to tell is in the movement, but even that would fool a non-expert.

When I buy a used Rolex (at some point), I think I will get it from Milton's shop!!

Looks like an AR Factory? Then again I believe most of the other factories have caught up with the correct spacing for the dial script on the ceramic Daytona. Looks like a working chrono with the correct 11mm case thickness too. Bezel markings look the right colour now, and the sub dials look right to the edges. Like Milton says it has got scary. I believe the weight is the same too? And the 904L steel. I doubt the trip lock crown will be correct though? Or the bezel fit? These are still only 50m. Nevertheless AR Factory are getting stupidly close in looks and feel. 

On ‎08‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 13:30, IanE said:

Shoot - that's actually quite worrying - movements has all the bits in the right place for the 4130

Although if I spent daytona money on that I'd be taking it back to the shop to ask why that bracelet end piece (bottom left of the pic) looks like it was shaped with a blunt hacksaw.

 

sel has been questioned and they are getting better all the time. 

23 hours ago, BondandBigM said:

 

Or someone who possibly perpetuates the "Super Fake"  urban myth to enhance their business 

:whistling:

Feel free to call me an old cynic yet again if you like but I never trust anybody with letters after their name. 

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:

 

LLB :biggrin:

(mine)

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3 minutes ago, Nigelp said:

Looks like an AR Factory? Then again I believe most of the other factories have caught up with the correct spacing for the dial script on the ceramic Daytona. Looks like a working chrono with the correct 11mm case thickness too. Bezel markings look the right colour now, and the sub dials look right to the edges. Like Milton says it has got scary. I believe the weight is the same too? And the 904L steel. I doubt the trip lock crown will be correct though? Or the bezel fit? These are still only 50m. Nevertheless AR Factory are getting stupidly close in looks and feel. 

I certainly hope the "Finnish" "dealer" who was offered this, gave the scoundrel a good talking too and confiscated this abomination. Did anyone mention the outcome ?

7 minutes ago, Nigelp said:

it has got scary.

UyHrWY1.gif

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13 minutes ago, WRENCH said:

I certainly hope the "Finnish" "dealer" who was offered this, gave the scoundrel a good talking too and confiscated this abomination. Did anyone mention the outcome ?

UyHrWY1.gif

not had the time to follow it since...maybe my equally learned friend @apm101 can enlighten us?

On 08/02/2019 at 02:41, BondandBigM said:

Pictures are one thing, even I could knock up a website with a few genuine pic but what you'll actually receive is another thing all together. 

bape-type-3-bapex-watches-silver-gold-00

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:

still a valid point, bond even though they dont look like this now in the case of a superclone at least,  you can still remove the crystal and bezel with a knife...apparently. 

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8 minutes ago, BondandBigM said:

 

According to Big M mine are

A@RSE

 

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:

 

LLB is latin for license to charge what you want. 

in english its laughing loudly (all the way to the) bank. 

2 hours ago, BondandBigM said:

MG Rover !!! 

It's the only time I ever bought a brand new car, I only had it a few months, my ex wife did a runner with it and I never sat in the thing again. 

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:

I'm not an old cynic for no reason

:biggrin:

she did you a favour! MG version of the rover 75 is an old codgers dream, when he lives in a Barratt house and cracks on he is a lord. Usually a red one...you know who i mean on here don't you 007?

Image result for barratt homes 1970s

Image result for rover mgzt 75 red

must dash. 

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9 minutes ago, Nigelp said:

LLB is latin for license to charge what you want. 

in english its laughing loudly (all the way to the) bank. 

she did you a favour! MG version of the rover 75 is an old codgers dream, when he lives in a Barratt house and cracks on he is a lord. Usually a red one...you know who i mean on here don't you 007?

Image result for barratt homes 1970s

Image result for rover mgzt 75 red

must dash. 

Solar red ZT, getting rare now:thumbsup:

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19 minutes ago, Nigelp said:

 a superclone

1. I really wish when someone posts something like this, they would include full corroborating proof.

2. I could post a picture of a genuine Rolex, movement and all, and claim it to be a superlative facsimile.

Proof is everything.

0000.jpg

 

Edited by WRENCH
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12 minutes ago, suzublu said:

Solar red ZT, getting rare now:thumbsup:

For a reason

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:

Two UKAS auditors pitched up at our place to give us the once over in a pretty much new estate version of one. While they were there the fuel pump packed up. 

Trying to get a fuel pump for one of those in the Czech Republic back then was a comedy of errors. 

It's probably still in Plzen

:biggrin:

 

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I find MH's threads on the dark side entertaining,but there is a "i have the secret knowledge, but I can't tell you lot what it is, I will only SELL it to bona fide jeweller types whom I authenticate as deserving" air to him that I find 2 parts showmanship, 1 part snake oil, and 1 part authenticity. Maybe I would feel differently after meeting the man, or visiting his shop. 

 

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15 hours ago, BondandBigM said:

MG Rover !!! 

It's the only time I ever bought a brand new car, I only had it a few months, my ex wife did a runner with it and I never sat in the thing again. 

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:

I'm not an old cynic for no reason

:biggrin:

At least she left you the DB5 so not all bad. :whistle:

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10 hours ago, Chromejob said:

I find MH's threads on the dark side entertaining,but there is a "i have the secret knowledge, but I can't tell you lot what it is, I will only SELL it to bona fide jeweller types whom I authenticate as deserving" air to him that I find 2 parts showmanship, 1 part snake oil, and 1 part authenticity. Maybe I would feel differently after meeting the man, or visiting his shop. 

 

Secret knowledge 

:biggrin:

I can't tell you how I know it's a fako and as for the don't post a pic with the serial number nonsense 

You can walk into almost any second hand dealer view a Rolex and see the papers or just ask them to pop the the bracelet off so you can check the numbers and on the newer ones it's clearly visible at 6 O'clock on  the RolexRolexRolex inner ring you just need a good memory or take a pic. 

And you don't think these faker have access to Google images or a few shops that sell the real thing. 

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:

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3 hours ago, WRENCH said:

I've just had a look at the broad ranging prices of these things. Do people really hand over that kind of money to a "private" individual, go home, and then ask if it's genuine ? 

Good point.   Not something I'd do to be honest.  For that sort of cash I'd be adding more and buying from an AD. 

Incidentally, the ' secret' knowledge stuff is complete bollxxcks.  An AD told me they all learn the tricks of the fakers and even nowadays the way they can affirm a good one goes to into more detail. Despite the use of 904l steel and fine tooling the trained AD staff member will know or have access to the more detailed data such as metal thickness, weight and even exact logo positioning.   

Obviously if you buy privately you take the risk. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, WRENCH said:

1. I really wish when someone posts something like this, they would include full corroborating proof.

2. I could post a picture of a genuine Rolex, movement and all, and claim it to be a superlative facsimile.

Proof is everything.

0000.jpg

 

where did you go to Law School Mother? :laugh:

you mean evidence not proof.

Image result for the birds hitchcock

I think the point is they look good but they are rubbish. 

22 hours ago, suzublu said:

Solar red ZT, getting rare now:thumbsup:

im glad to here it. 

9 hours ago, richy176 said:

At least she left you the DB5 so not all bad. :whistle:

db2, its the proof that spanner @WRENCH wanted:laugh: lol

Image result for aston db2 the birds

45 minutes ago, ong said:

Good point.   Not something I'd do to be honest.  For that sort of cash I'd be adding more and buying from an AD. 

Incidentally, the ' secret' knowledge stuff is complete bollxxcks.  An AD told me they all learn the tricks of the fakers and even nowadays the way they can affirm a good one goes to into more detail. Despite the use of 904l steel and fine tooling the trained AD staff member will know or have access to the more detailed data such as metal thickness, weight and even exact logo positioning.   

Obviously if you buy privately you take the risk. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

its a stupid point, they hand over a lot more and therefore go home and think it is original. 

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1 hour ago, Nigelp said:

where did you go to Law School Mother? :laugh:

you mean evidence not proof.

1 minute ago, JonnyOldBoy said:

I find the constant challenging of reality tiresome....  I know its the engine of Forums ( or is it Fora ) but when hobbyists suddenly become forensic scientists its exhausting....

I think the point is they look good but they are rubbish. 

:laugh:

its a stupid point, they hand over a lot more and therefore go home and think it is original. 

Some people are just born stupid.

Maybe I should start private business classes on Cynicism.

Given some of the comments in this thread and similar comments on the “Dark Side” it looks to me that it’s a license to print money. 

The phrase  “as bright as a blackout” springs to mind.

:biggrin:

 

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