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mach 0.0013137

English Pin Pallets

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As some may remember I have this slightly odd interest in old English made Pin-pallet watches which all use the same movement despite being `made` by different firms, it appears to be identical to the Kienzle 54/7 and a Swiss movement as well :P

I can`t really say why I like them but feel they do have a certain charm also I`m quite impressed that such a simple unjeweled movement keeps going after over 50 years especially as they were probably comparitively cheap even when new :D

Anyway another one arrived yesterday via ebay complete with it`s original box and guarantee dated 22/12/53 :P

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Aviation 1953, unjeweled Pin-pallet

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Unfortunately the photo doesn`t show that the chapter ring is copper B)

Before anyone starts, yes it does have a leather strap but due to the `pins` being part of the casing & therefore fixed it was obviously sewn on to the watch and is in good condition so though I don`t like leather staps, I`m not going to destroy one that appears to be the watch`s original 53 year old strap :nono:

I`ve been after an Aviation for some time but possibly due to sellers often describing them as 1930`s/40`s Pilots watches they get snapped up for to me slightly silly money :(

Maybe the seller saying it wasn`t working put people off I don`t know but I was pleased to win it for only £6.50 :D

As I mentioned I`m familiar with this movement and within 5 minutes of it arriving it was ticking strongly,

mind you maybe fiddling with an old watch having just got up after my last in a set of 4 nights wasn`t the best plan, I managed to knock the minute hand off and the crystal feel out :ph34r:

I got that sorted and as I said the watch was running nicely with the very loud tick they all make, however I noticed after a few hours that it seemed to have lost 1/2 an hour :(

So I made a somewhat crude attempt at adjusting it (remember I was very tired) and left it for the night, amazingly when I got up this morning it was almost spot on and has kept good time since.:thumbup:

Something I was pleasently supprised to discover is the address of the Aviation Watch Co. is the same as the Services Watch Co. so obviously the same local Leicester firm :D

I`m certain the building is still standing so will take and post a photo for the forums Service owners :photo:

Here`s a group shot of my present collection...

Stirling, Aviation, Newmark, Guldhall & another Newmark

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Other watches using the same movement I hope to get include Services, Horsham & Amdex, if anyone comes across any others let me know :P

BTW here`s 3 more I`m waiting for from the bay :D

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Don`t know what they are yet but I recognise the style and they were again cheap :P

sellers description...

This auction is for 3 classic 1940's styled gents watches. The case on two of them are exceptionally good show virtually no wear marks. The watches all run but may need servicing as one of them stops

Edited by mach 0.0013137

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I forgot to mention, as it appears that the watch firms, such as Newmark & Services, just assembled the watches from bought in parts, any information on who made these movements, cases, dials & hands would be gratefully recieved :P

Pin pallet unjeweled movements, note the left hand Newmark`s stamped `Made in England`

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Typical `English` pin pallet case c1950`s

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An enlightening little feature Mac :) .

I have an Aviation somewhere. I'll seek it out.

I like the "DO NOT return this watch to the retailer from whom it was purchased" order :lol: .

I imagine that these watches were sold cheaply by non jewellery shops :blink: .

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Thanks guys :thumbup:

An enlightening little feature Mac :) .

I have an Aviation somewhere. I'll seek it out.

I like the "DO NOT return this watch to the retailer from whom it was purchased" order :lol: .

I imagine that these watches were sold cheaply by non jewellery shops :blink: .

Interesting point Ian about the possible outlets they were sold from as it would go along with my feeling that these watches were made and sold cheaply to supply a need in the cash strapped late 40`s early 50`s when rationing was still around and imports were severely restricted and subject to very high taxes :)

BTW I`d like to see your Aviation when you find it :D

Interesting post Mac :yes:

Nice to have the box and papers as well :)

I must admit it was the fact that it came with them that swung it for me. :D

I wasn`t too bothered when the seller described it as not working, due to the movements simple & robust construction, as long as it wasn`t actually broken, I felt I might be able to get it going and if not, was sure I could find another movement which would be simple to swap over :P

Edited by mach 0.0013137

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I thought I might give some more info on the case`s they come in

Basically they are a very simple two piece design, the movement sits in, and is surrounded by, the bottom half and the top, which includes the fixed lugs, just presses on to it.

So far I`ve come across two types, one as fitted to my two tone Newmark and the Stirling (shown on the right in the photo), has a deeper top plate which has a cut out for the winding stem and encapsulates the movement.

The other, apparently more common type (shown on the left in the photo), has a much more basic and shallower top plate which presses onto the bottom case.

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You`ll note that on the second type the lugs are very shallow and sit quite high whereas on the first type they curve down, more like `normal` lugs, this is more clearly shown in the photo below of my Guldhall with my two tone Newmark (on the right).

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I don`t know but I suspect that the Newmark case style is older and the Guildhall type was developed to reduce costs.

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As I mentioned above on the `earlier` type case there was a cut out in both the top and bottom parts for the winding stem, this acts as an anchor holding the movement in the correct orientation in the case.

On the `later` style there is a small cut out in the bottom case into which a prong on the top plate is supposed to sit (see photo).

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It`s easer to see on this close up....

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Unfortunately the lug seems to be somewhat flimsy and has worn down on the examples of this type case I have ( see photo)

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This seems to be a common problem as I`ve seen quite a few of these watches on Ebay similar to this..

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The sellers usually claim that the dial & winder being angled is part of the design :rolleyes:

It`s not really a problem, you just have to make sure you line up the movement by sight.

Another point is it seeems to me the earlier case would offer better dust proofing as it as I mentioned before encapsulates the movement unlike the later type.

Edited by mach 0.0013137

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BTW I mentioned in my first post that I`d managed to knock out the Aviation`s crystal :ph34r::rolleyes:

I did pop it back in but it`s loose, any suggestions on how I can `fix` it? :blink:

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Here you are Mac. Sorry 'bout the pic :( .

Surely these were boy's watches :blink: ? This one ticks when it wants to, which is not very often :( .

Nice looking watch Ian :D

What size is it?, mine are all 32mm excluding crown (which would be a mans size for the early `50`s) by 11mm deep :P

BTW I mentioned in my first post that the minute hand had fallen out on my Aviation while I was trying to get it going just after it arrived and that I`d put it back on, well I noticed that it wasn`t correctly positioned ie when the minute hand was at 12 the hour hand was bit out, well I was tired at the time :rolleyes:

Anyway I took it off and repositioned it correctly, unfortunately now the watch, which had previously been keeping very good time looses approx 30 seconds a minute :eek:

I thought maybe I`d pushed the minute hand too far down and that it was dragging against the hour hand so have tried repositioning it a number of times with no joy, I may have to take it to a jewellers but last time I took one of these watches for a service they refused to saying it wasn`t worth doing :(

Edited by mach 0.0013137

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You wont believe this Mac, but I have a Aviation watch ( non runner :( )

BUT......It has the same box and papers :o

BUT......The box is pink :lol:

PM me your address and Ill post it to you ;)

I do like a nice pink box........

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You wont believe this Mac, but I have a Aviation watch ( non runner :( )

BUT......It has the same box and papers :o

BUT......The box is pink :lol:

PM me your address and Ill post it to you ;)

I do like a nice pink box........

Just noticed your reply Jase, thanks, PM being sent :thumbsup:

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whomever got you started on these Mac???? :D

Nice one Paul B)

It`s not a Timex :nono:

You`ll just have to get rid of it :P:lol::lol:

I`m sure you could find some half crazed weirdo to sell it to :wacko::whistle:

Edited by mach 0.0013137

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I may have to take it to a jewellers but last time I took one of these watches for a service they refused to saying it wasn`t worth doing :(

It depends whether you're willing to pay to have it done. I think a watchmaker would be hard pressed to put a guarantee on his/her ( PC :D ) work on these cranky things :( .

That's what I like about you Mac. You're willing to fight for lost causes ;) .

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I may have to take it to a jewellers but last time I took one of these watches for a service they refused to saying it wasn`t worth doing :(

It depends whether you're willing to pay to have it done. I think a watchmaker would be hard pressed to put a guarantee on his/her ( PC :D ) work on these cranky things :( .

That's what I like about you Mac. You're willing to fight for lost causes ;) .

It seems such a shame as it was keeping really good time, if only I`d not knocked the hand off in the first place :cry2::bb:

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Here`s 3 more I`m waiting for from the bay :D

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Don`t know what they are yet but I recognise the style and they were again cheap :P

sellers description...

This auction is for 3 classic 1940's styled gents watches. The case on two of them are exceptionally good show virtually no wear marks. The watches all run but may need servicing as one of them stops

Well they finally arrived this morning, and all going as well as one could hope :P .....

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The `Unamed` one on the left appears to have had little use and the `Mentor` appears to have never been used, the centre one has ` Marine & Overseas Services Ltd, London`( I wonder who they were? :huh: ) on the dial and `Newmark Made in England` on the case back.

The `Newmark` has lost it`s second hand and the dial is interesting with it`s outer number scale going up to 300, any ideas what this is for? :blink:

The movements (shown on the bottom row with 3 of my `English` ones for comparison) are all marked as being Swiss.

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The left hand movement ( from the unamed watch) has a partial stamp with a circular styled `E` in a circle and `BREV-DEP (or R)

The centre movement is from the `Newmark` and has a`Cal99`stamp.

The `Mentor` movement is stamped as having `One Jewel`( BTW I have seen an identical Swiss movement stamped `5 Jewels`)

As you can see there are only minor differences between the `English` and Swiss movements and as I mentioned before the `Keinzle` 54/7 appears to be almost identical, I presume that the design is originally Swiss then licensed out, although I could be completetly wrong :ph34r:

BTW the `English` movements are L-R Guildhall, Stirling & Aviation :D

Already got my eye on a couple more on ebay :rolleyes:

Edited by mach 0.0013137

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This oldie arrived from Jason, who had kindly donated it as I he saw my interest in Aviation watches :D

Love the `Macho` paratrooper box :P

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Mind you he did say it was pink :lol::lol:

Aviation `No5` 1939

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What a strange box cover design for a ladies watch :o

Jase wasn`t sure if he should have removed the leather strap before sending the watch but it`s not as if I ever intend to wear it and the strap is possibly the original :D

BTW you may notice the seller was "N.M.Brownlie, The Garage Alness" I wonder if a young chap rushing to see his lady friend on her birthday, panicing because he hadn`t got her a present had popped in to fill up his cart then noticed the watches for sale :sweatdrop:

Even has the original price on the back....

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So then children what is 5/6 in new money? :blink:

Anyway thanks Jase, it`s great :thumbup:

Edited by mach 0.0013137

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Thats top quality Mac :) also well done Jason for being shuch a gent ;)

Including the leather strap also nice touch :D

Edited by PhilM

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Thats top quality Mac :) also well done Jason for being shuch a gent ;)

Including the leather strap also nice touch :D

thanks Phil, it doesn`t work and is missing a hand but who cares :P

BTW I do wonder what Jason was doing with a `Ladies` watch :spruce_up::lol::lol:

So then children what is 5/6 in new money? :blink:

27.1/2p at a guess?

Richard

Sounds about right :D

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Glad you like it Mac :D

I cant remember where I got it from to be honest,

Im glad its gone to a good home.... ;)

Trust you to fill in your own story as to its origins :)

So have you tried to track down the original owner yet? :lol:

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