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A Family Affair: The Accurist Story, 1946-2014


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I have been meaning to write a substantial history of Accurist for the Forum for some time, and I produced a draft topic almost ready for posting. Then for some inexplicable reason, I lost confidence in what I had written and shelved the text, with a view to perhaps returning to it at a later date. What sparked me to return to the Accurist story was, strangely enough, a specialist work on another, totally unrelated, subject. The authors of this book had technically excused themselves from criticism of minor inaccuracies and lack of perfection by declaring that the book was “Draft 2.2” of a work in progress rather than a finished product. In this same spirit, I have to explain that this topic on Accurist is still, even after much work on my part, in effect an advanced draft of a subject that can forever be perfected and added to. So, with that caveat, here is the main topic, covering Accurist from its foundation, generally fixed at 1946, until 2014.


In 2014, Accurist was acquired by Time Products Ltd, a British watch group owned by Marcus Margulies that includes the Sekonda and Limit watch brands. This move by Accurist was probably a wise one because Time Products has always respected the British idiom when it comes to their watch brands and it kept Accurist out of Far Eastern hands. The acquisition of Accurist by Time Products and the story of Accurist in recent years lies outside the scope of this topic, mainly because with the Time Products acquisition, Accurist lost its status as a family owned and run watch company, and that seemed to represent a definite break. Subsequent to 2014, Accurist revamped and relaunched itself, and the brand would appear to be in safe hands as the topmost echelon in the Time Products watch brand lineup.


So having said all that, let us return to Accurist history as a family business, starting at the beginning and taking events forwards up to 2014:


In the Greater Manchester County Record Office are many old photographs relating to local families, and among them are some pictures that pertain to the Loftus family - a family forever associated with the Accurist Watch Company; owners of the firm until 2014. This important photographic record was compiled by Mrs. S. R. Keene (see below) in 1985 and donated to the Manchester Record Office.


The timeline begins with photograph 2356/1 which shows members of the Loftus family in Bialystok, Russia, c.1900, prior to their migration to Liverpool. The photograph comprises Philip, Dora, Sophie, Phoebe, and Nancy, but does not include Abram Loftus who migrated with the family in 1905. Of these family members, Dora Loftus was sadly injured during their escape to Britain from Russia and photograph 2356/21 shows her at the Tottenham Home for the Incurable.


In England, Abram Loftus first had a seamen’s outfitter in Park Lane, Liverpool, from 1914-1920, before moving on to a shop in Whitechapel, also in Liverpool. Picture 2356/2, taken in about 1924, shows Hyman Winston (Orig. Weinstein) and Phoebe Loftus by Abram Loftus’s shop in Whitechapel, Liverpool, two years before they were married. The couple had two children, Rita (b.1927 and the donor of the Loftus photographs) and Ivor, and by about 1930, Hyman and Phoebe Winston were running a gown shop and were evidently prospering.


While Abram Loftus had entered into the clothes business - as did his daughter Phoebe and her husband Hyman - Philip Loftus became a Liverpool jeweller, as evidenced by a photograph (2356/6) from the 1930s. Abram himself had two children, a son and daughter, Asher and Sophie Loftus, and it is with these two members of the Loftus clan that the beginning of Accurist can be located. Unfortunately, the Manchester photographic Loftus archive does not take us much further in terms of the history of the Accurist watch company but it does clarify a vital point about the founding of the firm.


Contrary to most literature about Accurist, the Manchester photographic record, created by a member of the founding family, quite clearly places the beginnings of Accurist as being in 1945 and also indicates that the founders were brother and sister, Asher and Sophie Loftus, following on from Asher’s experience selling watches. The usual story provided in the literature is that Accurist was founded by husband and wife, Asher and Rebecca Loftus, in 1946, and Sophie’s role in the initial stages has been edited out.  In spite of this apparent discrepancy, I have still decided to take 1946 as the starting date for Accurist - the reason being that the Accurist company that we know today was “officially” put on the map in 1946 when Asher and his wife Rebecca took premises in St. John Street, Clerkenwell, London, named the company and focused their attention on filling a specific gap in the watch market.


Asher and his wife Rebecca felt that there was a space in the watch market for a brand that would utilise quality Swiss components yet have both a distinctive style and a competitive pricing structure. As part of this plan, they wanted to produce watches that were of sufficiently good quality to permit a longer guarantee period than was then general in that sector of the market. In choosing a brand name, the Loftus’s wisely avoided the suggestions put forward by marketing experts, which included names such as “Mayfair” and “Grosvenor” and came up with the inspired name, “Accurist,” succinctly denoting accuracy of a watch worn on the wrist and being linguistically English in sound without being too cliquish or narrow minded. 


Right from the start,  Accurist was a company that made smart moves and understood the UK watch market -  keeping up with technology and cleverly putting out branches from its mainstream products without ever threatening its central image of Britishness. Whether engaged in the fashion world or in the world of sober wristwatches, Accurist kept its finger on the pulse and managed to survive the ravages of the Quartz Crisis and the periodic dips in the UK economy. Ultimately, the Accurist name out-lasted its close Loftus family ties, and the brand survives today as a respected name in watches.


Going back to business decisions in the earlier period of the company and following on from the first Accurist watches, we find that the search to produce good quality, well-priced mechanical watches led Asher and Rebecca Loftus to hit on the idea of creating a sort of USP in their promotion of Swiss-made 21 jewel lever movements for their watches, and this firmed up their reputation as a solid provider of decent watches by the mid-1960s. At the same time, the Loftus’s were becoming pioneers in the skilful use of advertising, especially via commercial television. Their campaign aired regularly on “Sunday Night at the London Palladium”, for example, was vital in transforming the Accurist name into a nationally known watch brand, and with the establishment of a Swiss office in 1968 (Accurist Service Agent) at La Chaux de Fonds, in the heart of the Swiss watchmaking industry, the firm could more easily co-ordinate manufacturing and sourcing of its watches.


Through the 1960s, Accurist produced hand wind and automatic watches in the same vein as other substantial companies at the same market level and this included not only ladies’ and gents’ timekeepers for dress and general wear but also chronographs and dive watches - the former often with Landeron movements.(Note that although firm majored on 21 jewel models, watches with other jewel counts were made throughout the mechanical-only period.) And yet, while Accurist was increasingly seen as a provider of solid, well-styled, wristwatches, the company boldly decided to make a foray into the fashion world. Cleverly, the firm avoided the danger of this venture backfiring and damaging the carefully maintained image of Accurist by choosing a different brand name for the new fashion-led sub-brand, “Old England.” This name played on the theme of the importance at the time of British youth fashion, while retaining a sense of heritage and identity. 


The Old England range produced by Accurist was the brainchild of Richard Loftus, brother of Accurist co-founder Asher Loftus. In fact, he was one of three brothers who were now becoming involved in running the company - Andrew Loftus being the third brother. After graduating from Cambridge with a degree in economics, Richard spent a year at Stanford University in the States before returning home, and in due course he turned his attention to creating and developing the Old England fashion watch brand, introduced c.1965 and launched worldwide in 1967.


We now think of Swatch as perhaps the main pioneer of colourful and fun fashion-led watches produced by a watch company rather than a fashion house/company, but Accurist were there first, way out ahead long before Swatch came on the scene. Old England watches were designed to be fun and low-cost alternatives to traditional styles and designs of watch, taking on board then current pop and unisex idioms and aimed at 13 to 35 year-olds - it has to be said though that the gender most likely to buy and wear an Old England watch was female.


What started as a range of cheap and cheerful watches soon became a craze that spread well beyond the social parameters of the intended audience. It was noted that Princess Anne, Elizabeth taylor, Twiggy, and even the Beatles, were seen wearing Old England wristwatches, and other celebrities also bought into this fashionable brand. Having shot to popularity in the UK and Europe, an Old England showroom was established in the US in 1967. At its peak in 1967/68, Old England branded watches represented about 20% of Accurist’s business and were sold in 40 countries worldwide. Richard Loftus was awarded the title, “Young Exporter of the Year” at the age of 24, and he was now a vital part of the Loftus family line-up at Accurist. His Old England watches were not discontinued until about 1971 and it should be said that the brand not only encompassed wristwatches but also medallion, ring, and belt watches.


Before leaving the subject of the Old England watches, I must eradicate a possible confusion that I myself experienced. It seems that genuine Old England watches from the 1960s and just into the 1970s are now not as frequently encountered as one might imagine. The original Old England mechanical models are collectible and in looking out for them one needs to avoid mistaking later Old England watches for their earlier counterparts - Old England watches produced as part of the 2011 relaunch of the sub-brand will not have the same desirability and value. There may possibly have been a few quartz models towards the very end of Old England production at the start of the 1970s but I would suggest that most first-period Old England watches were mechanical while quartz examples will date to the relaunch of the brand in 2011.


Accurist in the early 1970s was, like so many European watch companies, facing the prospect of a mass influx of quartz watches with the Far East about to dominate global watch production at prices that were soon to tumble. At this time, Accurist still relied on Swiss sources of production, and looking at surviving quartz Accurist watches from the 1970s, it is evident that many or indeed most were Swiss-made.


In order to counter the quartz revolution, Accurist realized that bold action was necessary and by acting quickly and decisively, the firm managed to sidestep the most problematic elements of this crisis. One of the most fortuitous decisions made was to adopt the latest digital watch technology and understand the need to switch rapidly from somewhat unreliable LED to LCD displays for its digital watches, at the same time managing to have their digital watches adopted as the official watch for the pilots of the new Concorde aircraft. Later, in 1983, Andrew Loftus, now at the head of Accurist - wisely as it turned out - switched  the manufacture of Accurist watches from Switzerland to Japan, giving the company access to the latest trends in watch technology that were booming in Japan at that time.


In addition to these moves to accept the inevitable and shift towards quartz technology, which Accurist managed to effect almost seamlessly,  the company also continued to place brand awareness at the heart of its strategy and in 1978, it struck gold with a series of television adverts starring John Cleese - the so-called “Accu-ankle, Accu-wrist” campaign. This campaign not only won the prestigious Palm d’Or Advertising Award but also went on to be shown on the American Johnny Carson Show where it was voted as one of the world’s ten best commercials. Certainly John Cleese must have liked it because in December 2009 he lent his voice to the same commercial but now featuring contemporary Accurist watches. In fact, Accurist can be said to be responsible for a number of significant advertising campaigns, including the “Sec’s Machine” and the “Two Timer” campaigns designed to promote the Accu.2 (see here below) watches.


A further inspired measure taken by Accurist to beef up the image and presence of the company, especially in the UK market, occurred in March 1986 when Accurist became the first organisation to sponsor the Speaking Clock over here in the UK. Initially a US phenomenon, the Speaking Clock arrived in the UK on 24 July 1936, where callers were greeted by the phrase, “At the third stroke the time will be …” By the end of its first year, the service had received 13 million calls.


When Accurist became involved, the message was subtly changed to, “At the third stroke, the time sponsored by Accurist will be …”, and Brian Cobby was chosen to be the actual speaker during the sponsorship years - the first male to lend his voice to the service. Using the credibility gained from association with the Speaking Clock service, Accurist could once again stress the quality and accuracy of their products, using the slogan, “Accurist - the standard by which all watches are set. Accurist was to continue to sponsor the Speaking Clock until 2008 and more will be said about this later in the topic.


The combination of the above mentioned measures enabled Accurist to weather the Quartz Crisis and created the start of a dramatic increase in company sales. In 1987, Accurist watches was awarded the first ever “Award of Excellence” by the National Association of Goldsmiths for its contribution to, and influence on, the UK watch market. By 1993, with UK sales up by a massive 500%, Accurist was the largest watch brand in the UK in value terms and was expanding again into international markets, re-living the previous success in this regard of their Old England watches. The firm not only made straightforward quartz watches at this time but also, with a keen eye on new technology, produced some kinetic watches similar to the Seiko variety as well as some solar models. As with Accurist mechanical watches after the virtual takeover by battery powered quartz, it is difficult to pin down how many kinetic and solar watches were in the Accurist lineup at any one time, or for how long these three varieties were in production for.


With Accurist pretty much at the top of their game by 1993, the question was now where should and could the company go now in order to further cement its position and maintain public recognition of the firm’s philosophy values and brand image, not only in the UK but also internationally. With sponsorship of the Speaking Clock having provided a direction to follow further, Andrew Loftus set his sights on another great British institution - the Greenwich Observatory.


In the mid-1990s, the Royal Observatory at Greenwich, home to Greenwich Mean Time and the International Meridian Line, was undergoing major renovation and Accurist was quick to involve itself with this project, becoming the first and only watch company to be formally associated with the observatory. Prudently, the company did not merely offer time-static support or financial means but actually built an atomic clock in 1995, set to count down the last 1,000 days to the millennium. This clock was designed to be accurate to 1/10,000,000th of a second.


The atomic clock was placed on the Prime Meridian and was controlled by 8 satellites; it showed the days, hours, minutes, seconds, tenths of a second and hundredths of a second until the new millennium. Accurist watch company, rightly proud of their achievement, made full use of this association with the Royal Observatory to promote their firm, and there was a major event at Greenwich to celebrate the millennium. In addition, in 1995 Accurist launched their “Greenwich Commemorative Collection” in over 20 countries. Ironically of course the main news about the coming of 2000 was concerned with what might happen to computers and systems relying on computers as their internal clocks entered the new year and the new millennium.


As the world waited for the approach of the year 2000, Accurist was already using the slogan, “Accurist. The standard by which all watches are set,” and “Accurist Mean Time.” The company also launched a range of replica Accurist Millennium Countdown Clocks on a worldwide scale, and even after the millennium, the agreement between Accurist and the Royal Observatory was strengthened. In March 2003, Accurist signed an exclusive licence agreement with the National Maritime Museum to produce a range of replica clocks and watches from the historic collections held by both the National Maritime Museum and the Royal Observatory.


Going back a few years prior to 2000, other positive events affected Accurist. In 1997, Accurist Watches won the “Volume watch brand of the year” award, and this was to be followed in 2001 by the “Client Service Award” attained at the UK Jewellery Awards for their commitment and continuous support to their customers. Indeed, it should be remembered that beneath the razzmatazz of all this sponsorship and promotional material by Accurist, the company was continuing to keep its core values and customer base in tact - producing rather good and well-priced watches, and with a highly rated customer service in place. In connection with this, in late 1997, Accurist moved its headquarters to London’s West Hampstead District, finally providing the company with custom-built modern facilities. This move enabled Accurist to provide an efficient and co-ordinated service across every facet of its business, from product design and assembly to distribution and after sales service. Since then, while the company itself continues to be based in London, the Accurist Service Centre is in Leicestershire.


Writing in the Independent in March 1997, Robert Trapp stated the following:


“The UK watch market is worth about pounds 500m, but is highly fragmented. However, Accurist has established itself as a leader with 40 per cent of sales of watches worth more than pounds 40.


As well as selling its mid-range products through 350 outlets around the country, the company - which employs 75 people - has developed a worldwide distribution network. And having secured a prominent position in what is arguably one of the most eagerly awaited events of the decade, it is not about to miss out on promotional activities.”



A couple of years after Roger Trapp’s newspaper piece, Accurist once again launched a new sub-brand. This time, it was more design-led than purely a fashion statement. This new offshoot, entitled, “Accu.2” was launched in 1999 and offered some interesting watch designs aimed mainly at younger consumers in the watch market. Strongly backed by the “No ordinary old timer” campaign, the launch of Accu.2 watches was a great success and they were stocked in more than 1,500 shops and retail outlets across the UK.


The Accu.2 watches were all quartz and used ana-digital or analogue displays. They are associated with the marking, “Tokyo Design,” and the country of origin mark, “Japan.” The Accu.2 watches were continued by Accurist over quite a long period of time, and when I wrote about them for the Forum in 2016, they had apparently only recently been discontinued, probably in 2014 on the acquisition of the firm by Time Products.


At some stage in the Accurist story, manufacture of Accurist watches shifted away from Japan towards China, although after the initial phase of quartz watch production, Accurist has tended to use Japanese movements. It would appear that Japan remained the main source of supply for Accurist watches (not including movements) until relatively recently but with increasing competition in the watch market and the growth of cheap watches and components made in China, it was inevitable that Accurist would have to shift some of its sourcing to China. This aspect of Accurist is difficult to pin down, as it is with so many other watch companies that do not actually manufacture their watches or components. 

In September 2005, Accurist set up a new division to distribute other brands in the UK and from January 2007, the company started to distribute Versace watches and jewellery. Accurist also became the first brand to be co-featured in the English football team’s advertising material in 2006. In mid-2008, realizing that the idea of a telephone speaking clock system  was no longer so relevant, Accurist ended its sponsorship of the BT version of the speaking clock and launched its own “British Real Time” website. The British Real Time Clock was to initially feature 4,620 individuals from all over the UK announcing the time in hours, minutes and seconds using edited video clips, with the purpose of celebrating British culture and providing a snapshot of what contemporary Britain was doing at any given moment. The Accurist Real Time website was eventually abandoned in 2015.


By the end of April 2009, with brothers Anthony, Richard and Andrew Loftus running Accurist the ranking on the Sunday Times rich list for the Loftus family was at 1,203 with an overall worth in property and watches of £45 million, down £30 million from the previous ranking. In addition to the watch company, the Loftus family also owned a large amount of property in the Baker Street area of London. It is difficult to say exactly why Accurist chose to end its independence as a family run watch company but financial problems may have coincided with personal considerations, and it is probably no coincidence that the UK economy was in trouble from 2008 until 2013 - that latter date almost coinciding with the acquisition of Accurist by Time Products Ltd. A possible sign that trouble was brewing at Accurist was the relaunch of the fashion watch sub-brand, Old England, in February 2011. This attempt to rekindle the flame of a successful past brand name was not a success and the name, Old England, faded away after early 2012 - quartz models from this relaunch turn up from time to time and are not nearly as collectible as their former counterparts.


I have no details for the negotiations immediately running up to the takeover of Accurist by Time Products Ltd and the assumption of its Managing Directorship by Marcus Margulies; the period from 2014 up to the present is not part of this topic. Taking in Accurist history as a whole, I believe that the firm has been one of the most interesting British watch companies, consistently producing decent watches and never staying still or stagnating. I apologise that this article is text only and quite a long read, but certain aspects of Accurist - have been covered, with illustrations, by other forum threads, here and elsewhere. In addition, with Britain being the home of the Accurist watch company for the whole of its life, we in the UK are privileged to have a good supply of extant Accurist watches both old and new, and illustrations in abundance. Indeed, feel free to post your pictures of Accurist watches or any other Accurist-related material on this thread.


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Another excellent and informative read, thank you, and one which reminds me that I have some unfinished business with my 34mm Old England watch which I have always attributed to Accurist, although with no great degree of certainty.

My own enthusiastic, if inept, digging had suggested that the Richard Loftus range of 1960s hip ‘n’ happenin’ watches used a Gothic-style of typeface for the dial wordmark and were driven by simple pin-levers, often the single jewel EB 8800. As you’ll see, mine has a plain typeface, a 17j FHF/ST 96-4 movement and is boringly bereft of any “Swinging Sixties” design cues. Only once have I seen an Old England- branded watch with the same plain typeface as mine but, confusingly, the case back was signed “Old England Watches Ltd 1968” in Gothic script. Oh, and it had a Benrus ETA-derived movement.

To me, the presence of “Shockmaster” on my dial would be another pointer to Accurist although the term is also associated with Gunzinger and possibly others. What appears to be an Import Code of TXb on the bridge leads me precisely nowhere. Of the three recorded possible makers of this brand, one is French and can be discounted whilst the other two can almost certainly be attributed to Accurist &/or the Loftus family.

So, perhaps Accurist produced some conventionally-styled “Old England” watches for more conventional folks, but I’d welcome your thoughts on where this one might fit in the Accurist canon, if at all.


Old England 2018.JPG

Old England FHF.ST 96-4 2018.JPG

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Dear @Balaton1109, your post highlights one of the perennial problems associated with digging deeper and deeper into any subject. This problem is a bit like atomic physics where particles once thought to be indivisible turned out to not be made up of still smaller particles, all related of course but difficult to sort out and quantify. And at that level of detail, one is bound to come across anomalies that break the general rules. Looking at your watch, I believe that it is an Accurist "Old England" model dating to the later 1960s.

I have done a bit more digging and I can tell you that on the takeover of Accurist by Time Products Ltd. in 2014, a dormant watch company, subsidiary to Accurist, was also acquired and incorporated by Time Products and this company was called, Old England Watches Ltd. Interestingly, the current status of this firm is "Active" although I do not believe that any watches so branded are being produced. I would suggest that Accurist may have originally created the Old England sub-brand as a subsidiary company, almost a separate concern, which was inactive after the original period of Old England watches, then reactivated for a period after the 2011 relaunch of Old England watches; finally being passed on to Time Products.

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Dear Honour, many thanks for your further input. I'm only too aware of the frustration generated by continued digging, often ending up in too many rabbit holes than is comfortable or, indeed, productive to my original goal.

I certainly concur with your later 1960s for mine which would seem to indicate that either it was contemporaneous with the "fashion" range, or it was produced by Old England Watches Ltd after the initial rush but prior to that sub-company becoming dormant at a date unknown.

Whatever, thanks to your help I can now be rather more confident with my Accurist attribution.

Kind regards.

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@Always"watching" I read this a while ago and found it interesting, but came back to it today having done some digging about for my own purposes. Very interesting about the origins of the family and the airbrushed sister. I looked for the Accurist trademark registration on the gov.uk site and found the one currently owned by Time Products. It says it was originally registered 2nd Feb 1942, so possibly they were starting to put their plans into place even earlier than 1945.

I also looked in the Swiss commercial records and found "Accurist" registered in October 1949 by Lawrence Seder & Co. Limited, Regent Street 92, 95 et 97, London W.1. They also registered "Accularm". Both trademarks transferred to Accurist Watches Ltd in May 1959. Lawrence Seder was a retail jeweller that went into liquidation in 1957. I've no idea what they were doing with the trademarks, although there was a Lawrence Seder & Company (Export Agency), Limited which was struck off in 1969, so maybe they were acting as agents before Accurist set up their office in Chaux de Fonds.

Nothing earth shattering there I know, but more little bits of the puzzle.

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I am currently compiling my own personal data about different watch brands, their history , development and current status and found your piece of research absolutely fascinating. Indeed it corroborates many of the facts that I had already researched via different web sites and would have saved me significant time effort and energy if I had read this article first. Be in no doubt that I will be looking to your threads for knowledge and details about other brands. I can see why you hold the title of Moderator. Could even be considered as "Oracle" in future?notworthy.gif.7d15adb91983e99d4d22bc3c8b1a3537.gif 

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@Always"watching" It's good to see this coming back to the top of the pile, Honour. I think it's one of your best.

In the spirit of your starting point - that the work would never be finished - I now have access to the archives of the BHI Journal and had a look to see what that says about Accurist. That's thrown up a few things I find intriguing.

First, in an article about the UK watch trade during WW2, the writer says the Loftus family were already large importers of watches at the outbreak of the war, but not under the Accurist brand.

Then, in October 1949, an advert by the Accurist company themselves announced that the watches would now be "made available to retailers around the country". The advert goes on to say "Accurist watches are nationally known because they have been nationally advertised during the past 7 years, to a greater extent than any other watch in Britain." That means advertising started in 1942, which is also when the first UK trademark was registered. There is unfortunately nothing to say how Accurist watches were sold in the intervening period, but in future there would be two categories of dealer: jewellers who stocked only a selection of models, and Main Stockists, who carried the whole range. Enquiries from national advertising would be passed to the local stockist.

In the fourth quarter of 1965, Accurist spent £63,240 on advertising, by far the largest spend of any of the leading watch companies. Their adverts for Xmas 1966 were scheduled for The Sunday Express, The News of the World and The People - so not exactly an up-market audience. :)

The October 1959 issue refers to the launch by Accurist of a new sub-brand "Regency", to be manufactured in France. A Google image search reveals a few of those in the usual places, but here's a clip from the 1978 Grattan catalogue.


Regarding "Old England", Richard Loftus is mentioned in a Sept 1967 article on latest trends in fashionable watches. Then, early in 1968, a party from the BHI Cheltenham branch went to Watch Dials Ltd in Burford to hear from the works manager about Old England fashion watches, which were"designed to appeal to fashion-conscious women and retail at £4 to £5 each." The party was divided as to whether Old England had a future or was just a flash in the pan.

At the start of 1969, Old England Watches Ltd was reported to have appointed Prescott Clock and Watch Co Ltd as sole UK distributors. In 1971 the company announced a "Motorist Wristwatch", sadly not pictured, featuring a 1 jewel EB 8461. The company is never mentioned in the Journal again, as far as I can see, and no connection with Accurist is ever referred to in any of the reports.

Aside from the BHI Journal, I've found "Old England" watches "from the House of Accurist" in Argos catalogues from the 1970s. For example ...


As far as I can see, the main Accurist brand appeared in all kinds of other catalogues from the 50s through to the 90s, but not in Argos until the 1980s, when Old England disappears. Make of that what you will. :)



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