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spaceslug

Help with a Bulova Accutron Spaceview

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Hi Folks

I used to be quite active on the forum a few years back but since retirement I’ve not bought so many watches, in fact I’ve started to thin the herd to fund other activities. Enough of the backstory for now, I was hoping someone could help me out with a Spaceview query.

I have what appears to be a 214 Spaceview with a TV style case, referenced as 214H N3 on the very informative Electric Watches web site. I believe this model dates from the early mid 70s, but I have noticed that the case is stamped with the code M4 which I’m given to understand dates it to 1964. Surely this can’t be right? I am aware that there have been a number of Spaceview conversions over the years and was wondering if this may be one of them? The bracelet looks right to me, but I’m not sure about the clasp which I think mike be a repro.

I’ve posted a couple of pics and would appreciate any info. I’m not asking for a value – I know this used to be a taboo  – but I just want to describe it honestly and accurately if and when I decide to let it go.

Thanks in advance.

48611523388_6af53294e0_b.jpg48612033947_c734cc11ed_b.jpg48611878841_8f0d8cabdb_b.jpg

Edited by spaceslug
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M4 is 1964, and it has the earlier, back set movement so I don't see any issues with that.

There are a lot of conversions so you will need to do more investigation to if yours is original or a conversion.  Start here for list of known spaceview case numbers

http://members.iinet.net.au/~fotoplot/accsvc.htm

It's a good looking watch, but values on here are still a no no.  eBay sold prices are the best resource

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Now that looks like a Spaceview I could wear.  :yes:

It seems bigger the the atypical Spaceview I once coveted.  Finally bought one, received it & put in on my wrist then almost immediately sold it as it was just too small...

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On 24/08/2019 at 09:48, spaceslug said:

Hi Folks

I have what appears to be a 214 Spaceview with a TV style case, referenced as 214H N3 on the very informative Electric Watches web site. I believe this model dates from the early mid 70s, but I have noticed that the case is stamped with the code M4 which I’m given to understand dates it to 1964. Surely this can’t be right? I am aware that there have been a number of Spaceview conversions over the years and was wondering if this may be one of them? The bracelet looks right to me, but I’m not sure about the clasp which I think mike be a repro.

I’ve posted a couple of pics and would appreciate any info. I’m not asking for a value – I know this used to be a taboo  – but I just want to describe it honestly and accurately if and when I decide to let it go.

Thanks in advance.

 

That particular designed Swiss Spaceview would not have been produced in 1964 so even though it has a 1964 dated Swiss caeback, that is not the original caseback to that watch.  Those watches came out around 1969 and later. And if the movement is stamped 214H then you have an altered movement because that movement is not hacked either. That particular case would be a legit Spaceview case but it appears that it has had some 'mix and match' repair work done to it at some point. 

That is Case # 7396 in Stainless Steel and 7396-2 in Gold Tone.

Edited by Bcasecollector
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On ‎28‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 17:38, Bcasecollector said:

That particular designed Swiss Spaceview would not have been produced in 1964 so even though it has a 1964 dated Swiss caeback, that is not the original caseback to that watch.  Those watches came out around 1969 and later. And if the movement is stamped 214H then you have an altered movement because that movement is not hacked either. That particular case would be a legit Spaceview case but it appears that it has had some 'mix and match' repair work done to it at some point. 

That is Case # 7396 in Stainless Steel and 7396-2 in Gold Tone.

    i use to be into accutrons AND none had hacks!  it was a "battery eater",  but very collectable.  vin

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4 hours ago, vinn said:

    i use to be into accutrons AND none had hacks!

You might want to elaborate because that makes no sense. You are actually saying that NO ACCUTRON WAS HACKED? 

 

Accutron Railroads were Hacked (214H), Accutron Astronauts were hacked (214HN). Most Swiss Spaceviews as with the one covered in this thread were hacked but it wasn't a 100% requirement. 

 

Accutron Hack Spring Write-up: Accutron 214H Tech

 

Another Accutron Hack Reference Link

 

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10 hours ago, Bcasecollector said:

You might want to elaborate because that makes no sense. You are actually saying that NO ACCUTRON WAS HACKED? 

 

Accutron Railroads were Hacked (214H), Accutron Astronauts were hacked (214HN). Most Swiss Spaceviews as with the one covered in this thread were hacked but it wasn't a 100% requirement. 

 

Accutron Hack Spring Write-up: Accutron 214H Tech

 

Another Accutron Hack Reference Link

 

    you are right.   i ment to say "battery disconect".  ill pull out my railroad certifyable and check it out.

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5 hours ago, vinn said:

    you are right.   i ment to say "battery disconect".  ill pull out my railroad certifyable and check it out.

Well I don't keep up with all Accutrons movement variants and mainly own 214 movement models but there are at least two Accutron variants in the Caliber 218 that have the battery disconnect feature:

"Model 218F

This version still has the standard component coil assy, however, the pillar plate hole which receives the ground-plate screw has been replaced by an insulated bush. Thus the screw is now isolated electrically from the pillar plate. The standard ground screw is replaced by a longer gold-plated one which has a tip that projects through the other side of the pillar plate and insulated from it. This forms one of a pair of contacts. The other contact is made of a gold-plated spring which is attached to the pillar plate. These contacts are operated by the setting lever. The design of the moving contact seems to me to be a bit "back yard". It is crimped into the pillar plate, and if it should break, the the entire pillar plate would have to be replaced. See pics above.

The effect of this contact mechanism is to form an electrical disconnect switch to stop all current flow when the crown is out. This means the watch could be stored in setting position, without draining the battery."

 

Model 218G

The Model 218G and its variations was made by both Bulova and the Citizen Watch Co. in Japan. Bulova owned a large share of Citizen between 1970 and 1975. Citizen supplied parts to Bulova during these years. For what models I am not sure, but at least for the 218 and probably 219. The 218 parts are perfectly interchangeable between the Japan and USA built movements, and the level of finish is identical. The Japanese built 218's can be identified by the stamp "Lic. Bulova" instead of "US Pat xxxxxxxxxx et al". This can be found at the very top edge of the mainplate, between the two coils. With this model, Bulova changed the hack system again. They dropped the idea of the stop collett on the hack lever, and went back to the old hack pin idea, which as before, lifts the pawl finger off the index wheel. The component coil assembly was modified again from the standard type, and the ground plate was deleted. Instead, a contact plate was fitted to the underside of the plastic molding, and this projected through a hole machined in the pillar plate. The original ground screw position was retained, but its only purpose was to serve as a mechanical mounting point.

In this new machined hole in the pillar plate, a contact spring was fitted (different to the 218F type). These two contacts were operated by the setting lever (modified yet again to suit). Also, the setting lever now has 3 positions, ie, the crown has 3 positions - in, middle and out. In the in position, the watch runs normally. In the middle position, the hack works, and the watch can be set. In the fully out position, the battery is disconnected, suitable for storage.

 

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On ‎10‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 21:07, Bcasecollector said:

Well I don't keep up with all Accutrons movement variants and mainly own 214 movement models but there are at least two Accutron variants in the Caliber 218 that have the battery disconnect feature:

"Model 218F

This version still has the standard component coil assy, however, the pillar plate hole which receives the ground-plate screw has been replaced by an insulated bush. Thus the screw is now isolated electrically from the pillar plate. The standard ground screw is replaced by a longer gold-plated one which has a tip that projects through the other side of the pillar plate and insulated from it. This forms one of a pair of contacts. The other contact is made of a gold-plated spring which is attached to the pillar plate. These contacts are operated by the setting lever. The design of the moving contact seems to me to be a bit "back yard". It is crimped into the pillar plate, and if it should break, the the entire pillar plate would have to be replaced. See pics above.

The effect of this contact mechanism is to form an electrical disconnect switch to stop all current flow when the crown is out. This means the watch could be stored in setting position, without draining the battery."

 

Model 218G

The Model 218G and its variations was made by both Bulova and the Citizen Watch Co. in Japan. Bulova owned a large share of Citizen between 1970 and 1975. Citizen supplied parts to Bulova during these years. For what models I am not sure, but at least for the 218 and probably 219. The 218 parts are perfectly interchangeable between the Japan and USA built movements, and the level of finish is identical. The Japanese built 218's can be identified by the stamp "Lic. Bulova" instead of "US Pat xxxxxxxxxx et al". This can be found at the very top edge of the mainplate, between the two coils. With this model, Bulova changed the hack system again. They dropped the idea of the stop collett on the hack lever, and went back to the old hack pin idea, which as before, lifts the pawl finger off the index wheel. The component coil assembly was modified again from the standard type, and the ground plate was deleted. Instead, a contact plate was fitted to the underside of the plastic molding, and this projected through a hole machined in the pillar plate. The original ground screw position was retained, but its only purpose was to serve as a mechanical mounting point.

In this new machined hole in the pillar plate, a contact spring was fitted (different to the 218F type). These two contacts were operated by the setting lever (modified yet again to suit). Also, the setting lever now has 3 positions, ie, the crown has 3 positions - in, middle and out. In the in position, the watch runs normally. In the middle position, the hack works, and the watch can be set. In the fully out position, the battery is disconnected, suitable for storage.

 

always amazed by this deep knowledge some of you own.....Iam only wearing watches and enjoy them :-)

 

The Bulova is an all time classic, keep it, it will always keep its value!

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