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Jet Jetski

Have you ever felt like buying a Rolex ...

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3 minutes ago, WRENCH said:

Unfortunately, people do that because they know. Every now and then you'll see news of some high profile collector getting done over, it is completely wrong, but too many make it too easy for the criminal.

Yep , he is a nice guy ,,,, but can not resist chit-chat in the wrong places. I lost count of the times I told him to "keep it down" in the local ....

Ironically, he is not a show-off, just loud.

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5 hours ago, Jet Jetski said:

Did he get the papers too lol 

This thread wasn't started to knock R*l*x, and I definitely could afford one if I was a one-watch chap.  The forum is quite a rarefied atmosphere (or it was until I joined) and there are opinions either way: the thread was started I suppose due to the awe I have for the stranglehold R*l*X have on public perception in the 'real world' beyond watch forums. And how irritating that can be.  I do not think it is due to the horology - there are many vintage watches with Aegler 'Rebberg' movements out there, it's the one signed R*l*x everyone wants.  And I am quite thick skinned and well known for ploughing my own furrow, normally oblivious to or regardless of 'opinion'.  Yet it is interesting that what started really as an idle, light-hearted question still has legs, despite having been discussed to death for the last ten years.  I would not be surprised if some who had sworn not to get involved on yet another R*l*X thread eventually gave in and could not resist that siren brand ...   calling, always calling ... :whistle:

Rolex like Marmite love it or hate it

Look forward to the next 10 years of discussions granted nothing will change...

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3 hours ago, ZenArcade said:

I felt like buying an Invicta once.....

Both motorcycle,

Invicta-1914-TMC-BG.jpg

and automobile, are most desirable.

wp-1-frontt-768x518.jpg

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20 hours ago, Richy said:

Yes and I did.

Ah, but was it bought solely to shut up the 'But do you have a Rolex?' brigade?

 Which is the rub of this particular thread.

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No, since enjoying watches I have always tried to gradually (IMO) improve my collection. I have Omegas' and think that they produce quality watches and movements, with my daily wearer being a SMP. I have however always fancied a Rolex Submariner (no date) and tried out a mate's (ceramic bezel) one. Sat nice, and knew right away the watch was to my taste. Personally there are several brands, AP and Hublot to name a couple that do nothing for me, so it is merely down to taste and picking a watch that I like. In the future will be inherited by my son. 

To be honest my Omega Speedmaster Mk2 Rio attracts more attention than my Rolex, and re your question I have no real interest in what others think.

 

So a question for you, have you ever felt like buying a cheaper watch so that you can tell other people that their paying to much for their watches?

 

Did you know that Rolex just put their prices up so hopefully my watch has went up a little...…..   

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1 hour ago, Richy said:

So a question for you, have you ever felt like buying a cheaper watch so that you can tell other people that their paying to much for their watches?

I must admit I LOVE wearing my $100 Casio at the Gym and once in a blue moon being "educated" about perhaps "getting a decent watch" .... its only happened a couple of times, but it was quite funny .... 

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1 hour ago, Richy said:

ever felt like buying a cheaper watch so that you can tell other people that their paying to much for their watches

I pretty much always pay too much for my watches, so not really - I think it is a bit rude to talk about the cost of watches anyway, I think people should pay as much as they can possibly afford if they really want something and it's none of my business.  The thread was never about affordability, it was about branding / advertising overwhelming one's natural inclination to simply buy a good quality watch you like, that keeps adequate time, doesn't fall apart, and brings you joy.  Rolex is the obvious culprit but other brands can be 'coveted' for the wrong reasons too.  I know someone who has a very expensive Tag - probably a Steve McQueen square one, and he keeps it 'hidden' in his laundry basket.  Didn't have the heart to tell him (JK!).  

But, I HAVE shopped around to try and prevent myself paying what I would consider too much for a 'good' watch, even though technically you cannot pay too much for a watch that will have a resale value above the retail price, and I think my 'best watch' is jolly nice, keeps great time, and I can read the date without having to glue a cyclops on the glass.  The bezel looks smooth, but under a loupe you can see it is gently fluted and that's why it really catches the light.  I like a bit of subtle detailing. 

Fluted:

Plates from Royal Copenhagen

IT IS NOT RIBBED!

2 hours ago, Richy said:

Hublot

I get ribbed for wearing a Junkers, because it says Junk on the dial, but when your brand produces some of the biggest blots on the horological landscape you should be called Hugeblot.  The Hublot wannabes by AP are the worst of their range too.  So we agree on something.  

No photo description available.

 

I would like a Submariner too of course, but only if I could afford to wear it for its original purpose as a beater, and I feel no shame in saying that that level of profligacy is unfortunately beyond me, profligate though I do try to be.

So my tool watch is a much cheaper military diver, but the case does have a Vickers hardness index of 1200 (both the steel and the PVD) vs about 500 for Rolex 904 stainless, but I didn't buy it intentionally to upset people who bought their Rolex for the scratch resistance of the case.  And it is triple sealed (thanks Rolex). 

Image may contain: outdoor

 But look at the date window.  Am I being picky, or is the date about 1 degree off horizontal?  It is, isn't it, I think the date window should be moved another degree clockwise round the dial, to sit squarely (or roundly) between 4 and 5.  So, you know, Rolex sub is prolly worth the extra 8.5k, if the date is level.

1 hour ago, JonnyOldBoy said:

I must admit I LOVE wearing my $100 Casio at the Gym and once in a blue moon being "educated" about perhaps "getting a decent watch" .... its only happened a couple of times, but it was quite funny .... 

I have been close to pulling the trigger on one of these a few times, but it is the silver dial I would really like.

s-l1600.jpg

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1 hour ago, Jet Jetski said:

 

So my tool watch is a much cheaper military diver, but the case does have a Vickers hardness index of 1200 (both the steel and the PVD) vs about 500 for Rolex 904 stainless, but I didn't buy it intentionally to upset people who bought their Rolex for the scratch resistance of the case.  And it is triple sealed (thanks Rolex). 

Image may contain: outdoor

 But look at the date window.  Am I being picky, or is the date about 1 degree off horizontal?  It is, isn't it, I think the date window should be moved another degree clockwise round the dial, to sit squarely (or roundly) between 4 and 5.  So, you know, Rolex sub is prolly worth the extra 8.5k, if the date is level.

 

 

If you apply that logic you could have saved yourself about £350/£400 and bought a £50 GShock 

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:

Just as an asides whilst you can manufacture pretty much anything anything to MOD specs in this case (no pun intended) did the MOD actually buy any of them ??? 

 

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15 minutes ago, BondandBigM said:

 

Just as an asides whilst you can manufacture pretty much anything anything to MOD specs in this case (no pun intended) did the MOD actually buy any of them ??? 

 

I believe the MOD took delivery of the first batch  - Elliot Brown are very proud that although there are watches with no NATO stock number that have been issued to the services, and some with a NATO stock number that haven't, theres is and has, or has and is lol.  They do an olive green one too, but that doesn't get the pheon.

Oh, here you go, they took them down the road the'selves, apparently ...

 

"Hand delivering the first batch of Holtons to the unit concerned was a proud moment that made us stop and take a breath because so few watches have ever attained the status of being developed this way and being issued as military equipment. Even fewer are issued to the type of specialist unit using the Holton, so it came as no surprise when this watch quickly became our most requested model."

A bit from a Chr. Ward forum post:

With regard to the 'Military Issue' status of the Holton Professional I contacted Elliot Brown to see if I could get clarification from them. This is the response I received from Alex Brown;-

"To clarify: when we say “Issued”, we mean a watch that is (and has been) purchased by the MoD (directly or indirectly), delivered to the military stores from the supplier (not from EB), and available to (and provided to) military personnel from the stores on the base/camp/etc.

Imagine a twin circle Venn diagram, with Issued watches (as described above) in one circle, and NSN’d watches in the other.

In our experience, not all watches worn by military personnel are NSN’d, and not all watches that are NSN’d are Issued.
We’ve seen all sorts of watches issued from stores, and plenty aren’t NSN’d.

For example, Eddie’s ’Smiths’ are NSN’d but not Issued. Same with the reissued Newmark watch.

(To clarify - we’ve absolutely nothing against Timefactors or Newmark - I mention them only because they were mentioned in that thread - we're not, absolutely not, singling them out for criticism. Just using them to illustrate the point of NSN’d but not Issued.)

I’m not sure if these watches use newly created NSNs or if they just reused the NSNs that were originally created for the original watches that theirs are based on. But either way, they aren’t Issued watches, they’re watches with an NSN on the caseback.

This is where the confusion comes from in this thread; most people think NSN=Issued, and that’s not the case.

The Holton is different because it’s in the area where the two circles intersect: it is NSN’d and Issued, and that’s rare. As we’ve said, we’re not aware of another British brand doing that in a decade.

It's available to buy on the NATO system, and has been purchased from MoD budget by specialist military suppliers, not from EB directly, and will be issued from stores.*

 

p.s. When I am on the hill I wear this on the other wrist ...

No photo description available.

Edited by Jet Jetski

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22 minutes ago, Jet Jetski said:

I believe the MOD took delivery of the first batch  - Elliot Brown are very proud that although there are watches with no NATO stock number that have been issued to the services, and some with a NATO stock number that haven't, theres is and has, or has and is lol.  They do an olive green one too, but that doesn't get the pheon.

Oh, here you go, they took them down the road the'selves, apparently ...

 

"Hand delivering the first batch of Holtons to the unit concerned was a proud moment that made us stop and take a breath because so few watches have ever attained the status of being developed this way and being issued as military equipment. Even fewer are issued to the type of specialist unit using the Holton, so it came as no surprise when this watch quickly became our most requested model."

A bit from a Chr. Ward forum post:

With regard to the 'Military Issue' status of the Holton Professional I contacted Elliot Brown to see if I could get clarification from them. This is the response I received from Alex Brown;-

"To clarify: when we say “Issued”, we mean a watch that is (and has been) purchased by the MoD (directly or indirectly), delivered to the military stores from the supplier (not from EB), and available to (and provided to) military personnel from the stores on the base/camp/etc.

Imagine a twin circle Venn diagram, with Issued watches (as described above) in one circle, and NSN’d watches in the other.

In our experience, not all watches worn by military personnel are NSN’d, and not all watches that are NSN’d are Issued.
We’ve seen all sorts of watches issued from stores, and plenty aren’t NSN’d.


It's available to buy on the NATO system, and has been purchased from MoD budget by specialist military suppliers, not from EB directly, and will be issued from stores.*

 

p.s. When I am on the hill I wear this on the other wrist ...

No photo description available.

Available "to buy" and actually issued free of charge are world's apart. 

My brother worked as a civvy on an American base in Germany, in their equivalent of our "stores" you could buy all sorts. 

Smoke, mirrors and marketing spring to mind. 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, BondandBigM said:

Smoke, mirrors and marketing spring to mind. 

and MWC.

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46 minutes ago, BondandBigM said:

Available "to buy" and actually issued free of charge are world's apart. 

OK, Alex Brown of Holton says they have been issued.

"available to (and provided to) military personnel from the stores on the base/camp/etc."

With the 'Canford' range, Elliott Brown already had a reputation for tough outdoors watches, and the narrative is that their watches were already being used by service personnel as a preference; and a joint venture was then embarked upon to tweak the design up to make the Holton a better mission fit - they have not just revived or appropriated an old / redundant NATO stock number (the NSN for this watch is 6645-99-303-0677)

46 minutes ago, BondandBigM said:

marketing

they have a way to go to catch up with R*l*x LOL!

It's a good watch either way, I got mine discounted too so not too far over my 'limit' for a quartz, plus extra straps (mine's on a 22mm Fossil rubber strap that I'm happy to wreck lol), they are all wet tested and cooled for moisture manifestation before they leave the factory, and impact tested on the crystal; the bezel is easy to turn with your gloves on because of the hob-nailing - just push down with your palm - legibility is great, shock resistance, WR, threaded spring bars, OEM rubber and G10 strap options , oh and scratch resistant!  (unlike my Casio, as you can see ...)

I think you'll agree that the pheon is pretty low key on the dial 

I do buy watches just for fun too, but I really like strapping this on for a hike.  The OEM rubber strap is kind of barbed too, so it won't pull back past the keeper accidentally - that's why navy divers dive in pairs, you need a buddy to help get your watch off afterwards!

18 minutes ago, WRENCH said:

and MWC.

they do make some value watches, for a 300m diver they look OK - 10 yr battery life too on the quartz

but my second hand hits the markers, so they can eat my shorts.

48 minutes ago, BondandBigM said:

in their equivalent of our "stores" you could buy all sorts

Alex Brown addressed that too I think

Edited by Jet Jetski

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23 minutes ago, YouCantHaveTooManyWatches said:

I bought a zenith el primero that looks awfully like a Rolex, but to answer the question - NO

Yes the Primero takes after the early Rolex Daytona quite a bit.

10 hours ago, BondandBigM said:

Smoke, mirrors and

testing:

https://elliotbrownwatches.com/blogs/technical/testing-testing-and-more-testing

welding one to the front of a clipper and sending it round the world is quite funny, because oftentimes watch manufacturers warn you that a static pressure test doesn't mean it will stand a dynamic immersion environment

 

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37 minutes ago, Jet Jetski said:

 

testing:

https://elliotbrownwatches.com/blogs/technical/testing-testing-and-more-testing

welding one to the front of a clipper and sending it round the world is quite funny, because oftentimes watch manufacturers warn you that a static pressure test doesn't mean it will stand a dynamic immersion environment

 

https://www.rolexmagazine.com/2017/03/the-return-of-single-red-sea-dweller_23.html

As they say nothing like real world testing, the other five parts are worth a read as well. 

:whistle:

 

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This one had 10 years of real life testing,

large.20190508_172936_kindlephoto-6534752.jpg.8b2339c3a0b9b25e88667875d9af40d4.jpg

Rotary couldn't afford Jacques Cousteau, so I got the job. 10 year olds, fighting, falling out of trees, crashing bikes, falling in rivers and lochs, paper rounds in all weather. Welded to a boat ? Pah!. :tongue:

Did I tell you about the "Timex lost in a dung midden" test. ? :laughing2dw:

One thing I find interesting is that I have friends and relations that have all been in active service, and every one of them has used their own Casio, either G Shock or Protrek. Because, in their words, "the issued stuff was cr@p".

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28 minutes ago, BondandBigM said:

https://www.rolexmagazine.com/2017/03/the-return-of-single-red-sea-dweller_23.html

As they say nothing like real world testing, the other five parts are worth a read as well. 

:whistle:

 

 

28 minutes ago, BondandBigM said:

https://www.rolexmagazine.com/2017/03/the-return-of-single-red-sea-dweller_23.html

As they say nothing like real world testing, the other five parts are worth a read as well. 

:whistle:

 

Absolutely, I think that's great for people who need that, and don't mind putting a £10k watch to work.  Unfortunately I have to think twice about being reckless with a watch well before the £500.00 mark!

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2 minutes ago, WRENCH said:

the issued stuff was cr@p

I think that's why EB were asked to make this, because their civvy watches were being used in preference to the issued cr@p.

The owners used to work for Animal - that company started up to make watches for surfers (I am guessing surfers' watches take a good bit of knocking) so there's quite a continuing theme of making things to take knocks.

G-shocks are OK, although mine has bleed in a couple of the LCD screens and I've not got on with the skeleton hands, and Pro-trek keep going, but mine has certainly gone the 'bend don't break' route:

No photo description available.

The Holton doesn't feel like it will bend!  But I wear them both and the analogue gives me the at-a-glance legibility - I think you said you seldom wore a watch on the hill, I always do - need to know the time to my next mars bar stop!

 

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26 minutes ago, WRENCH said:

This one had 10 years of real life testing,

large.20190508_172936_kindlephoto-6534752.jpg.8b2339c3a0b9b25e88667875d9af40d4.jpg

Rotary couldn't afford Jacques Cousteau, so I got the job. 10 year olds, fighting, falling out of trees, crashing bikes, falling in rivers and lochs, paper rounds in all weather. Welded to a boat ? Pah!. :tongue:

Did I tell you about the "Timex lost in a dung midden" test. ? :laughing2dw:

One thing I find interesting is that I have friends and relations that have all been in active service, and every one of them has used their own Casio, either G Shock or Protrek. Because, in their words, "the issued stuff was cr@p".

Apparently recently the issued stuff has been Japanese and from what I can gather these hardly anybody gets them. 

This freedom of information request is a bit out of date but nevertheless. 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/wristwatches_issued_to_the_briti

Another interesting article 

https://anordain.com/blogs/news/100-years-of-british-military-watches-part-3

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1 minute ago, Jet Jetski said:

G-shocks are OK,

and cheap enough to be disposable, although one of my pals is very sentimentally attached to his old Protrek.

 

3 minutes ago, Jet Jetski said:

I always do - need to know the time to my next mars bar stop!

I have a pretty accurate internal clock for that. :laughing2dw::thumbsup:

6 minutes ago, BondandBigM said:

Apparently recently the issued stuff has been Japanese and from what I can gather these hardly anybody gets them. 

Interesting, I often go into a cafe that is a stopping off point on a major route, and often frequented by military personnel en route. Last time it was "territorials", and the two in charge had CWC "Fatboys". Usually it's RAF regiment, and G Shocks.

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3 minutes ago, WRENCH said:

very sentimentally attached to his old Protrek

me too - I have to say mine isn't especially disposable (titanium), but the tide-graph is set to Newhaven where my dad was born

it is the second 'triple sensor' I have owned, gave the first one to a nephew

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2 hours ago, Jet Jetski said:

Yes the Primero takes after the early Rolex Daytona quite a bit.

 

For a long time , Rolex Daytona models actually used Zenith movements.....

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