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it'salivejim

Is this genuine?

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It was interesting that a perfectly reasonable thread on how to spot a quite impressively faked watch, was locked and then a note was posted by a moderator to remind us of Roy's rule on talking about fakes.

Shouldn't the rule about fake watch talk be more about stopping people discussing fakes on the level of, 'Great fake, looks real', or 'Look at my new fake watch that I just bought', rather than a blanket ban on watch enthusiasts discussing how not to get duped and to be on their guard?

It's pretty easy to tell the difference between a fake enthusiast and a fake detractor in my opinion, and I think it's important that more people are made aware of what to look for so they don't get stiffed with a bad 'un, if you'll  excuse the phrase :laugh:

What do others think? And this is a conversation about watches and the forum rules rather than a conversation about fake watches.

 

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There is IMHO much anxiety abound for folks buying watches which are prone to copying outside of the AD network. I would have thought considered and learned opinion from those with a view would be welcome both within and outwith our little community.

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If the Mods want to block threads about how to avoid fakes then the Mods want to block threads about how to avoid fakes.

I guess we have to just keep our fingers crossed no one on here gets stung rather than do our best to help and promote genuine..... !?!?

A bit like global warming though, some posters on here deny the very existence of Super-not-reals .... [ see what I did there ] :laugh:

 

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Since this forum started Roy has always taken a firm line on posts about fakes, it is his forum and they are his rules.

The moderators let the two similar threads about super fakes run and decided to lock them after they became discussions on fakes in general and not the watch in question posted by the OP.

This is not a forum for discussing fakes and unless Roy changes his mind after around 20 years of providing a forum that's the way it will stay.

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I fully and understand and accept that maybe my original posting was taken a little off track but how do we stop that.. so many threads end up talking about something completely different to the original posting.

I was in No way was promoting or glorifying these pieces I was hoping to make some of the newer members here aware that these ever increasing in quality pieces exist and would hate to see someone's hard earned ending up with a worthless item..

We live in a time of unprecedented demand for some brands whether you agree with it or not and this environment may cloud the newer members judgement for trying to purchase these items and awareness was my only concern as it is human nature to want something even more if we cannot readily obtain it all being fuelled by social media

Its Ok for the more experienced members to frown upon these posts as pointless because they can spot these pieces with one eyed closed.

We have a huge Membership on this forum but relatively few people who post which includes many new member's who come here to be involved and maybe learn something from those on here who know their subjects inside out.

I think this is probably the best forum in the UK with regards tolerance and information/knowledge shared with a sense of humour and I have learnt so much from the more experienced member's and I know we have the occasional spat but in general its a great place to be and enjoy our hobby.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, JoT said:

This is not a forum for discussing fakes and unless Roy changes his mind after around 20 years of providing a forum that's the way it will stay.

I honestly don't think there is a single person who posts regularly here who wants to "discuss fakes" for the sake of it.

The intent is obvious.

Given the denials on here by some about their very existence its a real topic in the real world that many feel needs to be debated. 

Its not the realm of the lucky-lucky man watches , these were discussion about real world watch deception.

Personally , I could not give a monkeys whether such discussions are allowed or not , it's not my forum. But I though it worth while giving my opinion in this window of opportunity whilst possible.

Also some may find it odd that the likes of Parnis are allowed on here, does this not contradict the ethic of the forum !? 

 

 

31 minutes ago, Speedy112 said:

I fully and understand and accept that maybe my original posting was taken a little off track but how do we stop that.. so many threads end up talking about something completely different to the original posting.

I was in No way was promoting or glorifying these pieces I was hoping to make some of the newer members here aware that these ever increasing in quality pieces exist and would hate to see someone's hard earned ending up with a worthless item..

We live in a time of unprecedented demand for some brands whether you agree with it or not and this environment may cloud the newer members judgement for trying to purchase these items and awareness was my only concern as it is human nature to want something even more if we cannot readily obtain it all being fuelled by social media

Its Ok for the more experienced members to frown upon these posts as pointless because they can spot these pieces with one eyed closed.

We have a huge Membership on this forum but relatively few people who post which includes many new member's who come here to be involved and maybe learn something from those on here who know their subjects inside out.

I think this is probably the best forum in the UK with regards tolerance and information/knowledge shared with a sense of humour and I have learnt so much from the more experienced member's and I know we have the occasional spat but in general its a great place to be and enjoy our hobby.

 

 

This is a great post.

And almost all of us realised your post was not promoting or glorifying.

Keep the faith , and remember the keep within the rules of never ever mentioning fakes , you can reference interesting points of reference ( ie general websites or youtube accounts )for those who are interested in avoiding trouble to learn more ..... its a valuable service ..... 

 

 

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For comparison

Watchuseek's rule on fakes

No discussions or pictures of replica watches, or links to replica watch sites unless previously approved by a Moderator or site Administrators.

I used to moderate on WUS 10+ years ago and the then owner, Ernie Romers was also very hard on posts discussing fake watches.

Many other forums have similar rules to TWF

If you want to take it up with Roy and see if he will change the rules his contact details are at the bottom of the main page.

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9 minutes ago, JoT said:

For comparison

Watchuseek's rule on fakes

No discussions or pictures of replica watches, or links to replica watch sites unless previously approved by a Moderator or site Administrators.

I used to moderate on WUS 10+ years ago and the then owner, Ernie Romers was also very hard on posts discussing fake watches.

Many other forums have similar rules to TWF

If you want to take it up with Roy and see if he will change the rules his contact details are at the bottom of the main page.

It is possible to prohibit promotion/selling/advertising of counterfeits whilst still allowing education to protect people from costly mistakes.

Rules have to have a reason and purpose so am sure Roy could make a Lords-style amendment if asked and many would comment that to the house.

In the meantime .... there is plenty more to chat about 

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I presume 'is my watch a fake' threads are not permitted? Asking because I have a Tag I bought in Jakarta 20 yrs ago and have always wondered about it.

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If people want this forum to become an "internet democracy", I suggest they ask Roy to relinquish it and take over the financial burden.

Roy pays for your ability to post here, don't consider this place to be an alternative to face@@@@.

I Suspect Roy makes little profit from the forum, he once suggested that he would shut it down because of the trouble it caused him.

I honestly don't know why Roy still pumps his money into this forum.

The only reason that comes to mind is his love of like minded watch lovers.

Let's be respectful of the forum and the person who pays for it, otherwise, we might lose it.:wink:

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In the two locked threads, the info portrayed about the dubious watches is on YouTube, easy for anyone to access without having to join this forum. There is a surprising about of genuine information on YouTube, like the clip I posted yesterday regarding someone's uncertainty about operating a seiko chronograph movement, you just have to look.

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Treading on eggshells comes to mind. It's easier to discuss the subject elsewhere where it is allowed.

I understand the need to protect the trade but many an interesting discussion could be had without promoting said items.

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12 hours ago, it'salivejim said:

It was interesting that a perfectly reasonable thread on how to spot a quite impressively faked watch, was locked and then a note was posted by a moderator to remind us of Roy's rule on talking about fakes.

After reading the response from @JoT, it seems that the thread was `locked' rather than deleted. That allowed the original post containing information to remain available to members whilst preventing the thread developing into a general discussion on the merits or problems around fakes.

I don't really see a problem with this - hardly heavy handed censorship.

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37 minutes ago, eezy said:

Treading on eggshells comes to mind. It's easier to discuss the subject elsewhere where it is allowed.

I understand the need to protect the trade but many an interesting discussion could be had without promoting said items.

This is exactly what I think.

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15 minutes ago, WRENCH said:

This is exactly what I think.

For me it's just common sense.

Promoting+selling+advertising counterfeits = bad

Warning WIS about them = good

But as mentioned above its not my forum , so what is allowed is and what isn't isn't.

Parnis paradox still holds for me though, being a company responsible for MASSIVE chunk of global counterfeit watches.

 

I happen to think the moderation on this forum with regards these matters over the years has been just about spot on historically....

Perhaps with fewer post/posters recently the chit chat about such matters just stands out more and therefore appears to be disproportionate to the intended mainstream content !?

 

 

 

 

Edited by JonnyOldBoy
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I imagine one of the reasons is that fakesters could easily read a public forum and learn exactly what to tweak to make the counterfeit goods even more realistic. 

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11 hours ago, Daveyboyz said:

The trouble is discussing what to look for just teaches them how to fake them better? 

 

Happen to agree with this.

It’s why the major victims will not openly discuss this subject publicly!!

However, behind the scenes they are they are doing everything they can to clamp down on it.

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1 minute ago, relaxer7 said:

I imagine one of the reasons is that fakesters could easily read a public forum and learn exactly what to tweak to make the counterfeit goods even more realistic. 

 

Just now, Karrusel said:

However, behind the scenes they are they are doing everything they can to clamp down on it.

I know the Major manufacturers are now addressing the problem, but historically they have been caught napping in my view.

Some are now leading the way and realise not only the problem they are addressing now , but the potential problem in the future.....

I personally think the future is bright on this situation ,,,,, so much so I perhaps need to wear shades ...:cool:

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I think this thread is healthy and it is great to talk these things through. 

I have seen an allegedly dubious watch posted on the daily threads... What is the best way to address this topic? 

Cheers Martin :thumbsup:

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5 minutes ago, martinzx said:

I think this thread is healthy and it is great to talk these things through. 

I have seen an allegedly dubious watch posted on the daily threads... What is the best way to address this topic? 

Cheers Martin :thumbsup:

Report it to any of the mods Martin - we can't read every post, but we will deal with reports of fakes quickly.  Thanks

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52 minutes ago, JonnyOldBoy said:

Some are now leading the way and realise not only the problem they are addressing now , but the potential problem in the future.....

What are they doing ?

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1 minute ago, JonnyOldBoy said:

Lots , but I am not able to post details here.

Why?

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