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Audemars111

MISTAKE IN THE EXTRACT OF ARCHIVES????

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Dear Watchforum,

 

I am writing to you concerning a problem I have encountered with one of my watches, and I would like to hear your opinion on the subject. 

I have requested an "Extract of Archives" from one of the top 5 watch company's for a rare watch from the 90's. I paid over 200USD for the Extract document, I wanted to have it because my watch does not have its original booklet and I was curious of the exact date age of the watch.

After receiving this book, I took it home and looked at the reference number and something seemed off. I knew the exact reference number of my watch, and on the paper the last 2 numbers (which refer to the type of dial) were different then what it should be. I got upset, and started thinking that my watch could have been dial swapped in the past to the reference number dial I thought I had, therefore it would have been a fabrication. This could significantly effect the value of the watch in the eyes of the buyers.  Doing research online I found that that reference number they wrote on the document didn't even exist. That was what got me to call the factory and question the accuracy of the document. They were even surprised to hear that the document was not accurate, and they asked me to send it back to them and they will replace it. 

If I would have not noticed it and thought that this document is accurate, then it would have ruined the value of my watch and It would have made it nearly impossible to sell on the market. 

 

My question to you is: is it common for watch companies to make mistakes on official signed extracts ? What would you do in my place? How can you trust watch companies with your watch?

 

Thanks,

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Hello and welcome to TWF.

I'm sorry I'm not able to help as my most expensive watch is only worth about 10 Bob, but I'm sure one of the more affluent members will be along to advise you soon. :yes:

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12 minutes ago, Cyclops930 said:

Hello and welcome to TWF.

I'm sorry I'm not able to help as my most expensive watch is only worth about 10 Bob, but I'm sure one of the more affluent members will be along to advise you soon. :yes:

Thank You ! :)

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Hi 

Records for many companies are incomplete, including high end brands established centuries ago!

Some of these companies would fit bespoke hands, dials, straps, bracelets, to standard production models to fulfil a customers specific requirement.

Many Swiss brands, those particularly in the mountainous regions using hydroelectric power in the 1900’s, suffered flooding (fires also) regularly.  As a result many archives/records were lost in basements.

Some manufacturers welcome contact from interested parties to submit their timepieces so as to help/assist in maintaining their records, archives, & cultural patrimony.

For most part I trust manufacturers, dealers, that I have regular contact with!

:thumbsup:

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4 minutes ago, Karrusel said:

Hi 

Records for many companies are incomplete, including high end brands established centuries ago!

Some of these companies would fit bespoke hands, dials, straps, bracelets, to standard production models to fulfil a customers specific requirement.

Many Swiss brands, those particularly in the mountainous regions using hydroelectric power in the 1900’s, suffered flooding (fires also) regularly.  As a result many archives/records were lost in basements.

Some manufacturers welcome contact from interested parties to submit their timepieces so as to help/assist in maintaining their records, archives, & cultural patrimony.

For most part I trust manufacturers, dealers, that I have regular contact with!

:thumbsup:

Dear Karrusel,

Thank you for your detailed reply, for older watches it is of course understandable,  what I meant to say was that my watch is from the 1990's, and that is why I was surprised that they could not get the reference number correct. 

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Dear @Audemars111, I agree with Alan (Karrusel) here above concerning the fallibilities inherent in trying to retrieve accurate records from watch companies. There are a multitude of factors that can lead to records going missing or being less accurate over time, and as a horological researcher, I come across this problem quite frequently. among the simplest traps that companies fall into are when they move premises or undergo a change of ownership and decide to have a "clearout" of old documents that don't seem to be relevant at the time. As for serial numbers, there are so often blips and errors in the system and in synching the actual watch with its appropriate serial number that cause problems with dating and attribution later on. :)

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Are staff at top five watch brands not allowed to have fat fingers and make the odd mistake?  They are replacing the extract, so this minor annoyance is resolved.

 

first world problems.jpg

  • Haha 2

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16 minutes ago, Audemars111 said:

 I was surprised that they could not get the reference number correct. 

There could be many reasons for this if you did not purchase from new ? (as you state, did not have the original booklet).

If I was unhappy with someone’s response from a manufacturer, knowing what I already knew (not a lot) I would write direct, politely, to the CEO for further clarification.

Are you confident the supplier of your timepiece, if not new, acted with probity ? 

Are you trying to sell this watch?

 

:thumbsup:

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45 minutes ago, Always"watching" said:

Dear @Audemars111, I agree with Alan (Karrusel) here above concerning the fallibilities inherent in trying to retrieve accurate records from watch companies. There are a multitude of factors that can lead to records going missing or being less accurate over time, and as a horological researcher, I come across this problem quite frequently. among the simplest traps that companies fall into are when they move premises or undergo a change of ownership and decide to have a "clearout" of old documents that don't seem to be relevant at the time. As for serial numbers, there are so often blips and errors in the system and in synching the actual watch with its appropriate serial number that cause problems with dating and attribution later on. :)

Dear Always"watching", 

Thank you for your reply,

 

The case number, the movement number and the production number was stated correctly. The reference number/name (model name) was incorrect, and this watch is well known in the factory as it is the first model ever made from that type. And as I mentioned before the watch is not that old, it is from the 1990's. It would one thing if it would be 100 year old watch, and there was a flood in the factory and the case number is incorrect by a few letters or numbers since the records were damaged by water. The reference number was incorrect, and that is what I find strange. Since, when they found my case, movement, production number they found the exact date of production, and they must see the exact reference number, and they probably print these Extracts directly from the computer. I found the same models online with Extract of Archives written correctly, so I was not the first to ask for this in the past few years. 

 

 

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Sounds like a genuine mistake, which happens with great regularity in today's world. Possibly a similar error as to the one made by whoever misplaced the original booklet, it happens. The fact that "the company" is replacing the document with the correct one would seem that the problem is resolved. 

1 hour ago, Audemars111 said:

My question to you is: is it common for watch companies to make mistakes on official signed extracts ? What would you do in my place? How can you trust watch companies with your watch?

I've had some instances of "top" watch companies making errors, but they've always been sorted amicably. (With a little help from forum members:thumbsup:)

Did you buy this watch without documentation ?

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1 hour ago, scottswatches said:

Are staff at top five watch brands not allowed to have fat fingers and make the odd mistake?  They are replacing the extract, so this minor annoyance is resolved.

 

first world problems.jpg

Well you pay to get the exact information, the factory signs it, it is an official document. It determines what your watch is, I think it is really important that a piece of paper you pay hundreds of Dollars for is accurate. 

54 minutes ago, Karrusel said:

There could be many reasons for this if you did not purchase from new ? (as you state, did not have the original booklet).

If I was unhappy with someone’s response from a manufacturer, knowing what I already knew (not a lot) I would write direct, politely, to the CEO for further clarification.

Are you confident the supplier of your timepiece, if not new, acted with probity ? 

Are you trying to sell this watch?

 

:thumbsup:

Dear Karrusel, 

I got the watch more than 10 years ago, it only became a more sought after watch recently, and that is why I wanted to get the extract for it. I will wait to get the corrected booklet, and write to them after. Do you think it is possible to write to the CEO of a watch company? The factory confirmed that the watch is the reference number I originally thought it was. Im not planning on selling the watch right now, I just wanted to settle the fact that the watch didn't have a booklet.

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I do hope you get a result that is satisfactory to you, dear Audemars. I can only echo what WRENCH has said above and trust that negotiation with the company in question goes well.:)

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14 minutes ago, WRENCH said:

Sounds like a genuine mistake, which happens with great regularity in today's world. Possibly a similar error as to the one made by whoever misplaced the original booklet, it happens. The fact that "the company" is replacing the document with the correct one would seem that the problem is resolved. 

I've had some instances of "top" watch companies making errors, but they've always been sorted amicably. (With a little help from forum members:thumbsup:)

Did you buy this watch without documentation ?

Dear WRENCH, 

Thank you for your insight.

I tried searching about other people having mistakes in the extracts. This is the one I found: https://omegaforums.net/threads/speedmaster-pre-moon-105-012-66-cb-wrong-movement-number.59671/

The problem there was that archive was probably damaged and the movement number was misread. 

 

But in my situation from the case number they know the exact reference number instantly, even when I called them before I got extract, they told me that the reference number is the number I thought it should be.

 

I bought the watch without documentation.

24 minutes ago, Always"watching" said:

I do hope you get a result that is satisfactory to you, dear Audemars. I can only echo what WRENCH has said above and trust that negotiation with the company in question goes well.:)

Thank You! :)

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2 minutes ago, Audemars111 said:

But in my situation from the case number they know the exact reference number instantly, even when I called them before I got extract, they told me that the reference number is the number I thought it should be.

It  sounds like someone has made a careless mistake when extracting the file, thank yourself it was watch related, and not a medical one. :)

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37 minutes ago, Audemars111 said:

 

 Do you think it is possible to write to the CEO of a watch company? 

 

I most certainly do, & have!

Why shouldn’t you, they are human individuals just like you & I. 

 

They still have to sit on the p*ss pot at 7am, or thereabouts, every morning. :yes:

:biggrin:

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56 minutes ago, WRENCH said:

It  sounds like someone has made a careless mistake when extracting the file, thank yourself it was watch related, and not a medical one. :)

Yes :biggrin:

53 minutes ago, Karrusel said:

 

I most certainly do, & have!

Why shouldn’t you, they are human individuals just like you & I. 

 

They still have to sit on the p*ss pot at 7am, or thereabouts, every morning. :yes:

:biggrin:

Thanks for the idea, I will consider writing to him :yes:

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