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The Nick Parr 1977 Mega Searching For a Watch Thread


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I sold an old Rotary automatic on Ebay.   It's a nice watch but when setting the hands you have to really pull hard on the crown.                                                                                         I don't know why, it's been like that for ages.    In the ad I explained the problem and stipulated no returns.    

After the  sale the guy demanded a refund because he said it was faulty.      

Now that's frustrating!

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Nick if I was in your position (and I have been many times and gone over my budget many times too!) I’d be thinking to myself what a wonderful predicament this is to be in.   Having x amount of money

I love my Navitimer at 41mm but I know they also do a lot of 46mm. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Does nobody buy a watch because primarily they like it. ? My boxes are full of things I like, not by what they're worth or how much they will depreciate. 

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52 minutes ago, richy176 said:

Could always buy on line and return if you don't like it.

That is an option I’m considering,but to date I’ve never sent anything back that I’ve ordered.

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49 minutes ago, Bonzodog said:

That is an option I’m considering,but to date I’ve never sent anything back that I’ve ordered.

That’s if after ordering it they don’t tell you it’s out of stock, heard that from at least 2 people on this forum

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18 minutes ago, julian2002 said:

Not having enough money to buy the watch I want but having enough to buy one i 'kinda want', this means constant self control when idly perusing c24, ebay, catawiki, drop, etc.

 

That’s my issue as well, I can manipulate myself into thinking which one I want and then talking myself out of it. I’m my own best friend and worst enemy

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52 minutes ago, Nick Parr 1977 said:

That’s if after ordering it they don’t tell you it’s out of stock, heard that from at least 2 people on this forum

That’s a fact,ordered a Sinn bracelet last week.Heard nothing from the company concerned,

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  • 4 weeks later...

So I am still looking for The Watch, I’m not seeing much in innovation or new watch styles from any of the known brands, it all seems to be updating of older styles, there just seems nothing new to market, examples Oris just bringing out another save the world watch and it’s just a green version and Breitling in my eyes have ruined the latest update to the Superocean Heritage? Is it me? 

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4 minutes ago, Nick Parr 1977 said:

So I am still looking for The Watch, I’m not seeing much in innovation or new watch styles 

Plenty out there if you are serious about buying a timepiece  ?
 

Have you considered philately or BASE jumping as an alternative pastime?

:biggrin:

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16 minutes ago, Karrusel said:

Plenty out there if you are serious about buying a timepiece  ?
 

Have you considered philately or BASE jumping as an alternative pastime?

:biggrin:

Not sure your meaning with that?

Just now, Nick Parr 1977 said:

Not sure your meaning with that?

To be fair I already have an extensive collection of stamps including a number of Penny Blacks albeit not the highest grade

2 minutes ago, Nick Parr 1977 said:

Not sure your meaning with that?

To be fair I already have an extensive collection of stamps including a number of Penny Blacks albeit not the highest grade

Also my point is not about my specific search the current lack of innovation or new style watches

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7 minutes ago, Nick Parr 1977 said:

the current lack of innovation or new style watches

I would agree with that, endless diver options etc, have a good look at German manufacturers, and some of the many small producers around the world, It may take a bit of digging.

 

 

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Nick,  horology has been evolving for hundreds of years till this point.  Things have been tried and tested, marketed and withdrawn and now we know what works and what doesn't. 

While it's still possible to innovate (and technical innovations abound with silicone hair springs etc) and exotic materials are tried (carbon fibre etc, but you still can't beat steel or 18ct gold) you simply are very unlikely to see any huge jumps in innovation... And if you do its going to be something like these sapphire cases which cost more than your house or some similarly high end extravagance. 

You have been looking for a while, have had ample time to go into boutiques and try stuff on... If you haven't found something you like then maybe you simply don't love watches or are somehow being motivated by bad motives (if there can be such things... Like buying a watch to impress somebody else or what-have-you) 

 

Its rare that "the watch" reveals itself in a moment of parting clouds and sunlight.   Normally it's a slow dawning on you, a realisation that a watch has everything going for it, a wow that gets stronger rather than fades into the noise of all the other watches you said "wow, that's neat" about. 

Edited by Daveyboyz
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This post wasn’t about my specific search, In looking at the many, many watches it only seems like the smaller brands bring out new styles, your right on the materials but it just seems the top brands update, I appreciate they are sticking to a try and tested recipe.

In my search I know exactly which one I am going for just waiting for the right deal, missed one at a great price. 
 

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Look at Cartier. 

Unlike Rolex who have similar lines at 20 years ago (albeit updated) Cartier have continually brought out new and different models without continuity. 

20 years back I told customers "if you want a watch that will hold its value buy Rolex or Cartier" they were equals in the marketplace like Ferrari (Cartier with its superior style) and Lamborghini (more in your face, raw power) 

Since then Cartier have plummeted away into near obscurity and Rolex have only grown in stature.   You might want a company to take risks and constantly reinvent but the market has certainly voiced its disapproval. 

Its like when women say they want a "nice guy" and then go and sleep with the school bully. 

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2 minutes ago, Daveyboyz said:

Look at Cartier. 

Unlike Rolex who have similar lines at 20 years ago (albeit updated) Cartier have continually brought out new and different models without continuity. 

20 years back I told customers "if you want a watch that will hold its value buy Rolex or Cartier" they were equals in the marketplace like Ferrari (Cartier with its superior style) and Lamborghini (more in your face, raw power) 

Since then Cartier have plummeted away into near obscurity and Rolex have only grown in stature.   You might want a company to take risks and constantly reinvent but the market has certainly voiced its disapproval. 

Its like when women say they want a "nice guy" and then go and sleep with the school bully. 

Agree with that but seems the only sector like that, I suppose for residual values it is fantastic. 
 

Even keeping their top lines with the evolution of people and their needs would have thought introducing new lines would be something trialled. 
 

Bremont seem to try but keep very much to their heritage which is your point, but adding a new line surely isn’t a risk if your keeping the purist happy

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3 minutes ago, Daveyboyz said:

It seems to me brands are tarred by their weakest models. 

A stinker seems to detract more than a triumph. 

Everything to lose and nothing to gain... Bremont heh?  And who are they as a brand? 

True, Bremont only 2002, but to get to where they are now and stuck to their recipe in such a short time, not the heritage of other brands but sticking to same formula.

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I do understand this post, and I think one problem is that there is much joy derived from watch collecting because wristwatches are evocative - I have a 76 Timex model of the type I wore as my first 'grown-up' watch.  I have watches evocative of the space race that fascinated me as a child, there are watches I have - nothing special - over a hundred years old that still work fine though they have not been babied, which evoke romantic ideas of artisanship and the advancement of craft.  And, intrinsically now, the evocative is at the heart of watch-wearing, not the innovative, as they are seldom a timekeeping necessity for many of us - the exceptions I believe prove that rule. 

So where do Veblen goods get their meaning?  Can it be through innovation - if so, 'smart' watches are the cutting edge of wristwear surely (can't believe I said that!).  If we are saying - just as a mechanical example - it is the Omega Co-axial chronometer, it appears to be advancement for the sake of advancement (since accuracy has been cracked by GPS and radio controlled watches, and other quartz technologies), it is effectively redundant art, and so even the innovative is rooted in the evocative.  That is not to say there is no merit, or even accolade due, just as I would be impressed if someone learned Ancient Greek in order to better understand Homer.

 

But of course everything we make transcends its function, I can 'oooh' and 'aaaah' over a side-stepped art deco watch, whose appearance is actually derived from the need to conceal the round movement in a modern -and purportedly functional - square form.  I can go misty eyed because it is evocative.  Makes me think of Saltdean Lido.  But if such a thing were contrived today, we would call it a fashion watch. 

88142940_197816174622961_2151720873755672576_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=8n0SL_zBIHIAX_h9C8M&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr4-2.fna&oh=11764e33f29441562c1d8ce4e7daa700&oe=5F69AA63

Is there any watch that is not a fashion watch?  Perhaps a tool watch fulfils its need, but is it not the beautiful ones we adore, and the brutish ones we dismiss?  There is little love for the Omega 125 Speedmaster.  The first automatic chronograph to be chronometer certified - more functional than functional, but little loved, regularly flipped - I saw someone snag one for the price of a Junkers ETA 7750 chrono.

Iconic Omega Speedmaster 125 | Vintage watches, Watches for men ...

 

So perhaps watch manufacturers now are retrenching, thinking that their industry - mechanical timekeeping - is a legacy industry, relying, like the monarchy, on tradition for its value, and conscious too of the scorn heaped on anything regarded as 'stylish', though the forms have always been, whether conscious or not, driven by the stylistic norms of the age - the Gestalt cannot be escaped, no matter the simplicity of the wheels, the bearings, the hands and the numbers.  And perhaps that is what manufacturers are waiting for, a bit of hope to define the spirit of the age, some confidence in the future and confidence in ourselves to be creative still.  It has been suggested, above, that everything that can be done to a watch has been done, but I don't believe that.

 

At some point watch makers will leave the safety of their subs, fliegers and speedmasters, and drive a 21st century agenda - to quote just one technology, think of the things that can be done with 3-D printing!  Have you seen those impossible puzzle type thing with wheels within wheels?  3D printed parts being used to maintain safety critical systems in space.

 

I believe technology, engineering and creativity will combine again to provide a buzz for the modern watch enthusiast, though as @WRENCH suggests this may be in the horological start-ups.  But will we be ready?  Will we even notice?  Will we care?

 

I think it is great to see that Nick does.

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27 minutes ago, Jet Jetski said:

I do understand this post, and I think one problem is that there is much joy derived from watch collecting because wristwatches are evocative - I have a 76 Timex model of the type I wore as my first 'grown-up' watch.  I have watches evocative of the space race that fascinated me as a child, there are watches I have - nothing special - over a hundred years old that still work fine though they have not been babied, which evoke romantic ideas of artisanship and the advancement of craft.  And, intrinsically now, the evocative is at the heart of watch-wearing, not the innovative, as they are seldom a timekeeping necessity for many of us - the exceptions I believe prove that rule. 

So where do Veblen goods get their meaning?  Can it be through innovation - if so, 'smart' watches are the cutting edge of wristwear surely (can't believe I said that!).  If we are saying - just as a mechanical example - it is the Omega Co-axial chronometer, it appears to be advancement for the sake of advancement (since accuracy has been cracked by GPS and radio controlled watches, and other quartz technologies), it is effectively redundant art, and so even the innovative is rooted in the evocative.  That is not to say there is no merit, or even accolade due, just as I would be impressed if someone learned Ancient Greek in order to better understand Homer.

 

But of course everything we make transcends its function, I can 'oooh' and 'aaaah' over a side-stepped art deco watch, whose appearance is actually derived from the need to conceal the round movement in a modern -and purportedly functional - square form.  I can go misty eyed because it is evocative.  Makes me think of Saltdean Lido.  But if such a thing were contrived today, we would call it a fashion watch. 

88142940_197816174622961_2151720873755672576_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=8n0SL_zBIHIAX_h9C8M&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr4-2.fna&oh=11764e33f29441562c1d8ce4e7daa700&oe=5F69AA63

Is there any watch that is not a fashion watch?  Perhaps a tool watch fulfils its need, but is it not the beautiful ones we adore, and the brutish ones we dismiss?  There is little love for the Omega 125 Speedmaster.  The first automatic chronograph to be chronometer certified - more functional than functional, but little loved, regularly flipped - I saw someone snag one for the price of a Junkers ETA 7750 chrono.

Iconic Omega Speedmaster 125 | Vintage watches, Watches for men ...

 

So perhaps watch manufacturers now are retrenching, thinking that their industry - mechanical timekeeping - is a legacy industry, relying, like the monarchy, on tradition for its value, and conscious too of the scorn heaped on anything regarded as 'stylish', though the forms have always been, whether conscious or not, driven by the stylistic norms of the age - the Gestalt cannot be escaped, no matter the simplicity of the wheels, the bearings, the hands and the numbers.  And perhaps that is what manufacturers are waiting for, a bit of hope to define the spirit of the age, some confidence in the future and confidence in ourselves to be creative still.  It has been suggested, above, that everything that can be done to a watch has been done, but I don't believe that.

 

At some point watch makers will leave the safety of their subs, fliegers and speedmasters, and drive a 21st century agenda - to quote just one technology, think of the things that can be done with 3-D printing!  Have you seen those impossible puzzle type thing with wheels within wheels?  3D printed parts being used to maintain safety critical systems in space.

 

I believe technology, engineering and creativity will combine again to provide a buzz for the modern watch enthusiast, though as @WRENCH suggests this may be in the horological start-ups.  But will we be ready?  Will we even notice?  Will we care?

 

I think it is great to see that Nick does.

That’s a really in-depth explanation and hits the nail on the head, the new generation are all about innovation and the next big thing, yes there will always collectors, sons and grandsons, daughters and granddaughters whose passion is in the true history but how long can big brands hold onto this, we have all been there as youngsters stating I will never wear that and then later in choice we find ourself doing the same. I really enjoyed reading your post Jet, it also enlightens me that  I am driven by the aesthetics of a watch rather than the heart, and there lies another question what percentage are people driven by the mechanics of the watch over how it looks. In my opinion which is by no mean fact would be a purist is driven by history and the movement of a watch as long as it’s looks are traditional, you will also get the new money people driven purely by those who want to be seen with a Rolex or similar rarity to most. 
 

it makes me excited to see where it goes next as with smart watches they still haven’t cracked the one, most will say the Apple Watch is the closest but looks basic, made me think a lot about my views on watches and still brings me back to questioning why it’s been the same for years, thank you Jet

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5 hours ago, Daveyboyz said:

Its rare that "the watch" reveals itself in a moment of parting clouds and sunlight.   Normally it's a slow dawning on you, a realisation that a watch has everything going for it, a wow that gets stronger rather than fades into the noise of all the other watches you said "wow, that's neat" about. 

This. ^^^

 It was the watch I had admired and walked away from on a number of occasions, mainly because I felt I couldn’t justify purchasing a watch at the price (at that time).  It was an emotional purchase; I bought it as a memento shortly after my mother passed away, using part of her legacy.  I don’t suppose I can really call it “the watch”, simply because I have others. But it is without question my go to watch, and it would be the last one off the bus if push came to shove, so to speak.  But I didn’t really know that at the time. It has just become a watch that I feel so comfortable with, that  often I wear it for days or weeks on end without even thinking about others. 

C49B2DB3-2B21-4A2E-8125-B2AB0D442D50.thumb.jpeg.74d5fd7b2960b78fd0a7738023e854c2.jpeg

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I think you are wrong, I think there is  innovation in watch making. The problem is that they are rarely seen, hardly ever talked about on forums like this unless it's to mock them and they are expensive, in a lot of cases really really expensive 

:)

Just one article 

 

https://www.bosshunting.com.au/gear/innovative-creative-watches/

 

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11 minutes ago, BondandBigM said:

I think you are wrong, I think there is  innovation in watch making. The problem is that they are rarely seen, hardly ever talked about on forums like this unless it's to mock them and they are expensive, in a lot of cases really really expensive 

:)

Just one article 

 

https://www.bosshunting.com.au/gear/innovative-creative-watches/

 

That’s an ugly watch, like looking in a mirror

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29 minutes ago, BondandBigM said:

they are rarely seen, hardly ever talked about on forums like this unless it's to mock them

 

I think you are kind of answering the rhetorical questions I posed:

4 hours ago, Jet Jetski said:

But will we be ready?  Will we even notice?  Will we care?

We will probably care enough to brush up on our skills of derision and kneejerk vituperation! :boxing:

 :yes:

Edited by Jet Jetski
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27 minutes ago, BondandBigM said:

I think you are wrong, I think there is  innovation in watch making. The problem is that they are rarely seen, hardly ever talked about on forums like this unless it's to mock them and they are expensive.

 

https://www.bosshunting.com.au/gear/innovative-creative-watches/

 

I agree.

You ain’t going to get the latest mechanical Haute Horlogerie for the price of a Seiko, Vostok, or even an Rolex Sub.

When you can appreciate (& accept) the time spent, sometimes years, of designing, producing concepts, refining, & bringing to market, then you may understand  why innovation usually comes with a high price tag.

These watch manufacturers spend many £million’s on R&D & production facilities.

Skilled craftsman in this industry don’t work for the minimum wages!!

 

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