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bridgeman

Matthey Doret transistor

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I take it this is one of those where electromagnets are used to give impetus to the balance instead of an escapement. 

I don't suppose you have any movement pics?

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Yes  that’s right. Pics on pm system will try to send This evening. ,let me know If it works

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2 hours ago, Always"watching" said:

Anyone know anything about the Matthey-Doret watch brand? So far, I have drawn a blank.

I have several versions of these 37mm German-made efforts, all closely related, and all seemingly driven by derivatives of the transistorised 17j Junghans 600.10 Ato-Chron movement, regardless of how the individual movements have been re-badged.

My examples are branded variously as either Matthey-Doret, Sheffield or Wedgefield and whilst Sheffield Watch Co of New York may have been the importers into the US, I still can't determine who actually made them (unless it was Junghans themselves!). Sorry.

Regards.

 

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Interesting that these are signed MATTHEY Doret whilst more common on watchbrands is MATHEY Tissot with the single T

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Dear @Balaton1109, there seem to be quite a few online references to persons having the hyphenated surname Matthey-Doret (sometimes written without a hyphen) but I have not found any connection to production/retailing of watches under that name. I have done a bit more research into the Sheffield brand, and here are my results.

The Sheffield brand name on the electronic wristwatches with German movements may relate to Sheffield Watch, Inc., of New York but I have my doubts. One source indicates that this American company produced cheap watches; simple pin lever mechanical examples at first, possibly assembled in Europe, and then, later, quartz examples from Asia. My feeling is that if this company was in the cheap watch market they would not have gone to the expense of using 17J Junghans electronic movements when there were cheaper options to use. On the other hand, I have just found this odd piece online from reference.com, which just adds to the confusion:

 

 

Sheffield is a well-known brand of watch that is considered a symbol of status and luxury. Similar to the more modern Timex brand, Sheffield was a popular watch during the 60?s; more recently they are considered to be rare watches and are favorites among watch collectors. Sheffield watches were considered affordable watches during the 60?s but can cost as much as $1,500 as of 2014.

Several brands of watches were introduced during the mid-to-late1900s, but the Sheffield watches are one of the most popular because they were cheap and aesthetically pleasing. The quality and durability of Sheffield watches are also remarkable as many of these watches are still in use today. These watches are now being auctioned online, and displayed and sold in antique shops and jewelry stores around the world. They may be battery operated, but most are wind-up models.

Sheffield watches are Swiss-made and come in a wide variety of styles, from old-style pocket watches to men's or women's styles with leather or gold bands. These timepieces can be worn like a simple wristwatch or can be placed inside a pocket. The vintage appeal of these watches makes them a trendy fashion that is much in demand today.

 

The most useful bit of information I can glean is the contents of a thread on the eBay Community headed "SHEFFIELD WATCH COMPANY" (community.ebay.com/t5/Archive-Watches-Clocks-and/SHEFFIELD-WATCH-COMPNY/td-p/1664572) which has descriptions of quite a few Sheffield branded watches. It seems from this thread that at least some models produced/sold by Sheffield are worthy of interest, and perhaps the watches with Junghans electronic movements are part of this company's production. As for the company itself, nothing much is known, although it is said to have closed in the 1970s. I cannot find any evidence for a British company named Sheffield Watch Co., so perhaps all roads lead to the American firm based in  New York.

 

The most useful bit of information I can glean is the contents of a thread on the eBay Community headed "SHEFFIELD WATCH COMPANY" (community.ebay.com/t5/Archive-Watches-Clocks-and/SHEFFIELD-WATCH-COMPNY/td-p/1664572) which has descriptions of quite a few Sheffield branded watches. It seems from this thread that at least some models produced/sold by Sheffield are worthy of interest, and perhaps the watches with Junghans electronic movements are part of this company's production. As for the company itself, nothing much is known, although it is said to have closed in the 1970s. I cannot find any evidence for a British company named Sheffield Watch Co., so perhaps all roads lead to the American firm based in  New York.

 

I have just found this 35mm chrome-cased 1960s Sheffield chronograph online, powered by a Venus 210 hand-wind movement; certainly a watch worth collecting (pic from hashtagwatchco.com at cdn.shopify.com):

 

IMG_4915.jpg?v=1586114549

 

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3 hours ago, Always"watching" said:

Dear @Balaton1109, there seem to be quite a few online references to persons having the hyphenated surname Matthey-Doret (sometimes written without a hyphen) but I have not found any connection to production/retailing of watches under that name. I have done a bit more research into the Sheffield brand, and here are my results.

The Sheffield brand name on the electronic wristwatches with German movements may relate to Sheffield Watch, Inc., of New York but I have my doubts. One source indicates that this American company produced cheap watches; simple pin lever mechanical examples at first, possibly assembled in Europe, and then, later, quartz examples from Asia. My feeling is that if this company was in the cheap watch market they would not have gone to the expense of using 17J Junghans electronic movements when there were cheaper options to use. On the other hand, I have just found this odd piece online from reference.com, which just adds to the confusion:

 

 

Sheffield is a well-known brand of watch that is considered a symbol of status and luxury. Similar to the more modern Timex brand, Sheffield was a popular watch during the 60?s; more recently they are considered to be rare watches and are favorites among watch collectors. Sheffield watches were considered affordable watches during the 60?s but can cost as much as $1,500 as of 2014.

Several brands of watches were introduced during the mid-to-late1900s, but the Sheffield watches are one of the most popular because they were cheap and aesthetically pleasing. The quality and durability of Sheffield watches are also remarkable as many of these watches are still in use today. These watches are now being auctioned online, and displayed and sold in antique shops and jewelry stores around the world. They may be battery operated, but most are wind-up models.

Sheffield watches are Swiss-made and come in a wide variety of styles, from old-style pocket watches to men's or women's styles with leather or gold bands. These timepieces can be worn like a simple wristwatch or can be placed inside a pocket. The vintage appeal of these watches makes them a trendy fashion that is much in demand today.

 

 

The most useful bit of information I can glean is the contents of a thread on the eBay Community headed "SHEFFIELD WATCH COMPANY" (community.ebay.com/t5/Archive-Watches-Clocks-and/SHEFFIELD-WATCH-COMPNY/td-p/1664572) which has descriptions of quite a few Sheffield branded watches. It seems from this thread that at least some models produced/sold by Sheffield are worthy of interest, and perhaps the watches with Junghans electronic movements are part of this company's production. As for the company itself, nothing much is known, although it is said to have closed in the 1970s. I cannot find any evidence for a British company named Sheffield Watch Co., so perhaps all roads lead to the American firm based in  New York.

 

I have just found this 35mm chrome-cased 1960s Sheffield chronograph online, powered by a Venus 210 hand-wind movement; certainly a watch worth collecting (pic from hashtagwatchco.com at cdn.shopify.com):

 

IMG_4915.jpg?v=1586114549

 

Dear Honour, many thanks for your usual great research.  

I’m still finding it difficult to dislodge my notion that these electronic watches were made for, or assembled by, the Sheffield outfit in NY, possibly the one started by the father of the eBay Community poster, and all using versions of the Junghans Dato-Chron transistorised movement but stamped as Sheffield (or Inter-Chron) despite also having the Junghans “star” logo.

I know you’ll have found that there are two New York-registered “Sheffield” companies recorded by Mikrolisk, either totally unrelated, or one could simply have been a later iteration of the other.  Neither give me any feelings of having been manufacturers, but rather importers or sellers, or, at a stretch, assemblers.

Like you, I could find plenty of Matthey-Doret surnames but none with any horological connection, leading me to believe, perhaps somewhat cynically, that someone thought it would be just fine to use that as a watch brand name with some ersatz heritage. And in the absence of knowing any better, I had formed the opinion that the “Wedgefield” brand name was merely a construct, sounding good and in keeping with the Sheffield name.  

I seem to recall having seen vintage mechanical Sheffield watches (on the UF, if memory serves) and some, if not all, with the same style of dial wordmark as shown on mine (below) and that of @John_D  posted on 5th April. The UF examples were described by their owners as being a German brand although in my database of such brands, the only entry is for “Sheffield Clock” made by Emperor, so it won’t be them, then. However, it seems clear that there was an older “Sheffield” brand of mechanical watches, perhaps whose name became dormant, a suggestion reinforced by the UF examples and complicated (!) by the Swiss-made Venus-powered chrono which you found bearing a different style of dial wordmark.

Unfortunately, I can find no Import Code on any of my examples but if any further confusion was needed, Ranfft attributes the VOS code to Sheffield as well as Voumard, Baume & Mercier, Britix, Jenco Watch Ltd. (Jenny & Frey).

Forgive me for seeming to have concentrated on the Sheffield name rather than your specific query (Matthey-Doret) but I believe them to be inextricably linked at least insofar as concerns these electronic jobs and that if we crack one, there’s a chance we’ll be able to crack the other.

Or maybe I’m over-thinking this whole subject and they were, indeed, simply a Junghans side project.

Regards.

Matthey-Doret by Sheffield v.2.jpg

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3 hours ago, Balaton1109 said:

Like you, I could find plenty of Matthey-Doret surnames but none with any horological connection

I don't know if this is even relevant, but in the early 1960s FOSC has entries for "Horloges électriques Reform, R. Matthey-Doret et Cie, à La Chaux-de-Fonds ... manufacture, purchase and sale of electric movements and clocks, etc".

In October 1963 "Blariche-Elsa Matthey-Doret née Schild, authorized wife of Robert, indefinitely responsible partner, of La Brévine and Le Locle, in La Chaux-de-Fonds, joined the company as limited partner".  In 1968 the president was "Alfred-Robert Matthey-Doret. de La Brévine and Le Locle, in La Chaux-de-Fonds".

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46 minutes ago, spinynorman said:

I don't know if this is even relevant, but in the early 1960s FOSC has entries for "Horloges électriques Reform, R. Matthey-Doret et Cie, à La Chaux-de-Fonds ... manufacture, purchase and sale of electric movements and clocks, etc".

In October 1963 "Blariche-Elsa Matthey-Doret née Schild, authorized wife of Robert, indefinitely responsible partner, of La Brévine and Le Locle, in La Chaux-de-Fonds, joined the company as limited partner".  In 1968 the president was "Alfred-Robert Matthey-Doret. de La Brévine and Le Locle, in La Chaux-de-Fonds".

Excellent stuff  -  at last a potential connection with the Matthey-Doret surname. Many thanks! Perhaps the word "purchase" in the company's Articles would account for this particular line of transistorised watches all using movements bought from Junghans, and that "electric" also encompassed "electronic".

It's generally thought that electronic movements were more a feature of the late '60s until perhaps the mid-'70s and whilst Matthey-Doret et Cie were obviously still extant in 1968, I wonder when they closed and also whether they had any connection with the identical-in-all-but-name Sheffield and Wedgefield watches which were perhaps examples of some brand-engineering . 

 

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I have a couple of these, one badged Sheffield and another badged Matthey-Doret, though neither have the Junghans 600.12 cal. with the date complication...(mid to late 1970's)

The Sheffield, with the 600.10 movement (about 1968)...

2uNN9zA.jpg

The Matthey-Doret one with the later 600.30 movement (about 1974/5)

ALx7k0S.jpg

And a 1968 Sheffield advert  for it....

hjMX2CP.jpg?1

As stated above, by others, the movement is by Junghans and first appeared in  a Junghans badged watch.....

V4hqlTA.jpg

When I was repairing my Matthey-Doret one, I sourced the replacement circuit from a movement from one of these Elgin 105/250 watches....

BlZL9EZ.jpg

7LHCo6v.jpg

Which has no reference to either Junghans or Sheffield on it.... (though mine had a Matthey Doret dial attached...:blush:)

QRavcqP.jpg

Coincidently the Russian manufacturer Luch copied the movement and it appears in their first electromechanical watch, the Luch 3045...

sAGfki6.jpg

The only difference appears to be that the Russians have relocated the crown to the traditional 3 o'clock position....

Acid7Id.jpg

 

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9 hours ago, Balaton1109 said:

whilst Matthey-Doret et Cie were obviously still extant in 1968, I wonder when they closed

The company was renamed in 1968, taking the "electronique" out, but still continuing the same business. However, I found a reference in 1975 to the Reform brand being transferred from the "electronique" company to one of its directors, and then in 1978 to another watch maker. So it looks like the company was trading at least till 1975.

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10 hours ago, Balaton1109 said:

that "electric" also encompassed "electronic".

That was Google translate from the French, so electronic is probably more accurate.

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195201 (REFORM) Horloges électriques Reform, R. Matthey-Doret et Cie,' La Chaux de-Fonds. - Transmission à Ara Parsek Tchamkerten, 26, route des Bouronnes, Auvernier (Neuchâtel). - Enregistré le 14 mai 1975.

Just found entries in Davoine for 1969 listing "Matthey-Doret R. & Cie, Reform" under Electric Desk and Wall Clocks. Seems they were a clock maker, not watches.

Edited by spinynorman
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Wow, great to clarify all that and a fascinating exploration of the "Sheffield" brand name. I love it when members act together to unravel mysteries like this and I enjoy taking part, even when a preliminary opinion turns out to be wrong. Thanks everyone...:thumbsup:

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I'm reluctant to go down any further rabbit holes (thanks a bunch, @spinynorman!) but may as well add this from Crazywatches.pl who mentions that Junghans sent their Ato/Dato-Chron movements to Switzerland and the US. badged as Sheffield, Elgin and Matthey-Tissot.

I'm hoping that the "Tissot" bit was meant to be "Doret" because otherwise it would open another can o' worms.

That's enough from me  -  I'm outta here!

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51 minutes ago, Balaton1109 said:

I'm reluctant to go down any further rabbit holes (thanks a bunch, @spinynorman!) but may as well add this from Crazywatches.pl who mentions that Junghans sent their Ato/Dato-Chron movements to Switzerland and the US. badged as Sheffield, Elgin and Matthey-Tissot.

I'm hoping that the "Tissot" bit was meant to be "Doret" because otherwise it would open another can o' worms.

That's enough from me  -  I'm outta here!

EDIT. In my indecent haste to be "outta here", I forgot to add the link, dammit!  http://www.crazywatches.pl/junghans-electronic-600-dato-chron-1970

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Apologies if I'm clouding the waters further but have stumbled across this reference to a Mathey Doret .

Scroll down to paragraph '17'

Article includes interesting reference to George Cadbury's, Bournville Villiage, Birmingham, along with family members working at Junghans...

https://journals.openedition.org/edl/234

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I'm not sure what is already known, but I'll throw this in and run away fast, lest I irritate @Balaton1109 any more than I have already. :biggrin:

From FoSC 23rd Dec 1969, trademark registration.

Sheffield Matthey-Doret

 

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Oh, I can't resist.

Sheffield Wedgefield

Sheffield Uhrenfabrik AG was reported bankrupt in 1972.

And the R.Matthey-Doret trademark expired in 1989.

Edited by spinynorman
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You just had to do it, didn't you? Anyway, great work for which I, and am sure others, will be most grateful.

Over and out.

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