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KAS118

Chinese v Swiss

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It's interesting ... however ... in the coming years China is going to become established as a pariah state. The **** is about to hit the fan regarding Hong Kong and their preparations for war in the south China sea and with India mean that fairly soon buying a watch from China will feel like to some buying a German Product in the late 1930s....

So although "made in China" may not mean "its a load of crap" ... that won't be why a huge percentage of people choose whether or not to buy from what will soon be viewed as an enemy state by many people and nations.

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3 hours ago, KAS118 said:

Interesting article in GQ about the raise of the Chinese Watch manufacturer (thought this was more appropriate for the General Forum than Chinese - but please move if posted in the wrong place)

 

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/watches/article/chinese-watch-brands

Interesting read

Most people base their  “Made in China” opinion from the cr@p on offer from Poundland, the central isle of Aldi or rubbish they bought from Ali Express and the guff/spin/propaganda they are fed from the media but if you put all that aside they do produce some good stuff.

I visited a few manufacturing sites in China that were easily the equal if not better than many factories I’ve visited in the West or America.
 

On top of that just as an asides it’s an absolutely fascinating country to visit obviously not without out it’s problems but hey ho have you had a look around this country recently.
 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, BondandBigM said:

On top of that just as an asides it’s an absolutely fascinating country to visit obviously not without out it’s problems but hey ho have you had a look around this country recently.
 

One of my best mates is a 6th form Geography teacher, known her since we were kids. She took 21 students to China in the late Autumn and she vowed afterwards never to set foot in the country again. There were pluses of course, but some of the problems they had were incredible. China is run by a Gestapo-like secret police on the ground. They operate as the enforcers of the surveillance state.They were subjected to rudeness and verbal abuse as a frequent daily occurrence and prevented from doing essentially what they were there to do. The standard of hygiene she said was worse than anything she has ever experienced ( and she has been to three dozen countries including many African countries). The school they were staying at was pristine from the outside , but as soon as you got inside it was filthy,,, everywhere.

Aside from those issue they had a very typically Chinese problem to face, they were constantly being told false history by "guides" and "advisors" and got extremely aggressive when the college teachers tried to state the correct historical facts.

Another good friend lives in North Carolina and works for an international engineering company, he spends a lot of his time in Mexico,Poland and China. He loves China. But when ever he tells me about his latest "fantastic" visit to China , it consists of Airport-Hotel-Office-Hotel-Office-Hotel-Office-Airport.... and he only seems to mention noodles.

I would rather live in a run down, decaying UK than a foul smelling Police state :thumbsup:  

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19 minutes ago, JonnyOldBoy said:

One of my best mates is a 6th form Geography teacher, known her since we were kids. She took 21 students to China in the late Autumn and she vowed afterwards never to set foot in the country again. There were pluses of course, but some of the problems they had were incredible. China is run by a Gestapo-like secret police on the ground. They operate as the enforcers of the surveillance state.They were subjected to rudeness and verbal abuse as a frequent daily occurrence and prevented from doing essentially what they were there to do. The standard of hygiene she said was worse than anything she has ever experienced ( and she has been to three dozen countries including many African countries). The school they were staying at was pristine from the outside , but as soon as you got inside it was filthy,,, everywhere.

Aside from those issue they had a very typically Chinese problem to face, they were constantly being told false history by "guides" and "advisors" and got extremely aggressive when the college teachers tried to state the correct historical facts.

Another good friend lives in North Carolina and works for an international engineering company, he spends a lot of his time in Mexico,Poland and China. He loves China. But when ever he tells me about his latest "fantastic" visit to China , it consists of Airport-Hotel-Office-Hotel-Office-Hotel-Office-Airport.... and he only seems to mention noodles.

I would rather live in a run down, decaying UK than a foul smelling Police state :thumbsup:  

It must of went downhill since I was there then.

The Hotels were fabulous and the dog was fine once it was in a curry, I can’t say I was never verbally abused mostly because I couldn’t understand a word anybody said to me.
 

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:

 


 

 

 

 

Edited by BondandBigM
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13 minutes ago, JonnyOldBoy said:

One of my best mates is a 6th form Geography teacher, 


Only a 6th form teacher. :(

 

One of my best mates is a retired Materials Scientist & University Lecturer, who was quite impressed with how engineering & industry in general was advancing there.
He also states that he was treated very well by the state.

 

:biggrin:

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Karrusel said:


Only a 6th form teacher. :(

 

Ah but she lights the fires that become blazes ....  :thumbsup:

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3 minutes ago, Karrusel said:

He also states that he was treated very well by the state.

My nephew has experienced exactly the same. A close friend worked there for a period of four years as a welding inspector in a boat builders, manufacturing for western clients, he also enjoyed his time there, and often goes back.

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3 minutes ago, JonnyOldBoy said:

Ah but she lights the fires that become blazes ....  :thumbsup:

That explains it then. :thumbsup:

 

We used to address her as Akela.

 

:laugh:

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11 minutes ago, BondandBigM said:

It must of went downhill since I was there then.

 

China will let you see what China want you to see. Remember they machine gunned hundreds of their own citizens on the streets in 1989 ... so downhill maybe in some things but they have improved in the sense they haven't mass murdered civilians in cities ( that we know of )

11 minutes ago, Karrusel said:

 

We used to address her as Akela.

 

:laugh:

Did she tell you to "do your best" ?

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4 hours ago, KAS118 said:

Interesting article in GQ about the raise of the Chinese Watch manufacturer (thought this was more appropriate for the General Forum than Chinese - but please move if posted in the wrong place)

 

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/watches/article/chinese-watch-brands

Getting back on topic. One of the things I have personal experience of is the lack of consistent quality control in Chinese products. China has been more than capable of turning out highly intricate products for centuries. Many historians will tell you that China invented the first guns in the 10th century in the form of fire lances, which fired shrapnel

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11 minutes ago, WRENCH said:

Getting back on topic. One of the things I have personal experience of is the lack of consistent quality control in Chinese products. 

Their metal industry also suffers from wholesale corruption with spec and QC certificates often not worth the paper they are written on ... 

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5 minutes ago, JonnyOldBoy said:

China will let you see what China want you to see. 

Again it must have went downhill since I was there, wandered around here and there, disappeared up a few side streets, ate off the street carts, went round markets for a look see, in and out of shops, off out the hotels to a couple of local pub cafe types of place, various restaurants, used taxis and had no problems anywhere we went. We were made more than welcome anywhere we went.

:)

 


 

 

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I think China is like everywhere you can find good and bad. Engineering and Science based facilities will be first rate just by the nature of what they are. If you look for the factories churning out cheap products for western retailers you see a totally different picture.

The same is true in the UK but just to a lesser degree. The UK motor industry in the 70’s didn’t have the best reputation for its build quality. 
 

I know our buyers go out there to cities you have never heard of with populations to match many European capitals. You look up what’s in these places, there’s usually a shrine, couple of parks, maybe a river or some mountains but very little else. 

Edited by Nick67+1

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2 hours ago, JonnyOldBoy said:

and he only seems to mention noodles.

I would rather live in a run down, decaying UK than a foul smelling Police state :thumbsup:  

Nothing wrong with noodles! :biggrin:

But I agree with your sentiment.

My neighbours wife is Chinese. She's working there now. She is no longer a Chinese citizen but has academic skills they need. She has worked in universities all over the World. She has no intention of ever living in China, as none of her family do. Someone else I know lived and worked for so long in China on big engineering projects, that he met and married his wife there, who is now a Brit. He has no illusions about the Chinese state, follows events there closely and views it as the evil empire. I think we can all agree on that. 

Edited by Caller.
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I lived in southern China for four years and in Hong Kong for eight years. I know some thoroughly lovely people from China. I have met some passionate watch collectors and I have acquired a couple of fairly nice Chinese watches. I still count a few acquaintences from those days amongst my closest friends.

I also have experience of poverty, corruption, communism, IP theft, censorship, and a decades-long propaganda campaign that has been largely successful in re-writing China's history (at least, for the domestic audience). And it is not just isolated examples here and there. Once you live there, you soon come to realise that the corruption is deep and widespread. It is absolutely everywhere, from getting visas and driving licences to getting planning permission and paying taxes. Oh, the tales I could tell! China has a long and rich history and the Chinese people are generally quite lovely and welcoming. The Communist Party, on the other hand, is probably one of the worst amongst the world's corrupt authoritarian regimes. I have permanent Hong Kong residence status, but I cannot imagine that I would ever go back, now, to the city I was once happy to call 'home'.

Sorry for the politics on a watch forum, however since this post has now probably put me on a 'watch list', there is at least a tentative connexion to the topic.

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Coming back to watches, when I was researching Allaine, I found the Swiss management of the company in the early 2000s had been very keen to break into the Chinese market. To do that, they accepted Chinese investment and ultimately handed over Swiss technology and expertise to a Chinese company.

So it seems unsurprising that the Chinese are increasingly able to compete.

 

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6 hours ago, Tom-HK said:

 you soon come to realise that the corruption is deep and widespread. It is absolutely everywhere, from getting visas and driving licences to getting planning permission and paying taxes. 

 

For a minute I thought you were talking about the UK. It’s a bit more sophisticated and gentlemanly here these days although the day’s of brown envelopes stuffed with tens and twenties are long gone.

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:

I did HK beforehand and after the hand back, to be fair not for long but I couldn’t say I noticed much difference.

But we lived in Singapore for a bit and there were loads of extremely wealthy Chinese. The company I was working for were looking to do a bit of business in China and somehow we were “introduced” to this Chinese bloke by another Chinese chap that I had bought a couple of machines from, and who was supposedly a bit of a mover and shaker. Right from the off I had my doubts about him, later founded when my Boss told me he had asked what hotel he should send the girls to.
 

:biggrin:

I’m surprised that so far nobody has mentioned the bent as a nine bob note Swiss banking system yet.

:whistle:
 

Don’t worry about talking politics and this topic makes a change from us squabbling about Trump, Boris, Brexit and this flu that currently ravaging the world.
:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:


 


 


 

 

 

Edited by BondandBigM

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