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Watch accuracy.


WRENCH
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I notice some manufacturers are guilty by omission, by not openly stating the timekeeping tolerances of the watches they manufacture. An example of this is my Seiko "Mini Turtle" the owners handbook makes no mention of timekeeping tolerances, whilst the generic guarantee booklet states the tolerance for Quartz watches only. A quick look at Calibre Corner reveals this about the Seiko 4R35 movement,

 "Seiko claims that the accuracy of caliber 4R35 is between +45 / -35 seconds per day. This rating is based on normal daily wear on the wrist in temperatures between 5 ºC and 35 ºC. When testing your watch for timekeeping, make sure it is fully wound."

 Vostok however make no secret of their spec which is openly advertised in their spec on Meranom etc. @ -20 +60 sec/day for a 420 Amphibia.

I have had some experience of new watches where the timekeeping has been totally unacceptable, but trying to get anything done to correct it under warranty has been met with a brick wall of waffle. My Seiko Mini Turtle was "inherited" after a week from a friend who bought it new as a first mechanical watch, and couldn't live with its 40+ seconds a day gain, and the vendors refusal to do anything about it because it was running within spec. It did run better on my wrist, but nowhere near the +5 seconds or so my other Seiko watches have run out of the box. Moving on; even though it showed no deflection with the magnetic compass test, last week I tried the watch on the demagnetizer, and bingo ! now running @+4 seconds, which would lead me to believe that the watch has been magnetized from new, and could have been a simple fix resulting in a happy customer. What I have noticed with the few microbrand watches I have, is it would appear that a great deal more attention is paid towards regulation than is done by the major manufacturers, or is it just me ?

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The microbrands do, generally speaking, seem to pay more attention to regulation than the major outfits but then, as the former are often producing only a relatively small number of watches, they can probably regulate every single one.

I've got a couple of watches each costing around £1K that both have run +20 seconds a day since new.  This irks me a little bit as I know they're capable of much better timekeeping, but then I remind myself of ye olden days sitting at the breakfast table with mum and dad waiting to hear the pips on the radio, at which point we'd adjust our watches by +/- 2 or 3 minutes! 

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3 minutes ago, rhaythorne said:

but then I remind myself of ye olden days sitting at the breakfast table with mum and dad waiting to hear the pips on the radio

I still do, reminding myself to be tuned to FM, thus eliminating the 3 second or so lag on digital transmission. :huh:

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Not being a collector i dont have lots of watches, but what i do tend to notice is that watches that give tolerances of say 20 25+/- are more often than not more nearer 3 to 4 secs +/- with regular wear of course. If i had a watch that was 20 to 25 secs out every 24hrs i`d be a little disappointed tbh, if one buys a watch and tolerance levels are clearly stated then you buy it with full knowledge of any potential lapses/gains, but if tolerance levels aren`t stated its a leap of faith/risk.

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7 hours ago, WRENCH said:

What I have noticed with the few microbrand watches I have, is it would appear that a great deal more attention is paid towards regulation than is done by the major manufacturers, or is it just me ?

Pretty sure Zelos state on their website or in their marketing blurb that they check the watches for accuracy before shipping - I did a bit of research before  buying and read comforting words to that effect somewhere.  Not had to set this

IMG_20201205_200535703(1).thumb.jpg.7c4d90b6057d40efb4863aac41cd8fa9.jpg

since I started the test five and a half days ago.

Screenshot_20201205-200117.thumb.png.cbaf22837f7405de02efecc8af8801f7.png

I have worn it non stop except in the bath and 8hrs last night.  Even when running.  I keep it on under my cuff as you can see from earlier today lol

IMG_20201205_083457147(1).thumb.jpg.6614bce205fc05e6c70dc5f9d696fd39.jpg

The rate wanders slightly - marginally slows overnight, marginally quickens when I run - I am guessing it's over 90% wound at that point, though it was just above freezing on my run, and probably 17.5 to 18.5 in my bedroom - too hot I know but I read about a link between cold houses and high blood pressure.  People who live in cold houses are apparently heavier too, by and large. So that's why I was piling on the pounds!  New boiler to the rescue.

 

So I think micro brands do try to improve on the standard offering from the movement supplier, in terms of accuracy out of the box.

The Zelos runs on a citizen Miyota 9 series.

Edited by Jet Jetski
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Armand Nicolet are perhaps not a micro-brand, but they do assert that each of their watches gets some love from the atelier before shipping - they used to be famous for finishing other makers' movements - Anyway, just checked my M02 in the winder where it has been for weeks, last set it a good six weeks ago when the clocks changed, and it's gained 6 seconds.

High grade ETA 2824-2

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I hope you are all factoring in the Uncertainty of Measurement 

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:

https://www.dit.ie/media/physics/documents/GPG11.pdf

For example @PC-Magician when was the last time you had your Timegrapher properly calibrated to a traceable known standard such as the NPL or the like ?? 
 

https://www.npl.co.uk

Back in the day we used mechanical stop watches and they were all regularly calibrated in house and once a year externally. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, BondandBigM said:

I hope you are all factoring in the Uncertainty of Measurement 

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:

https://www.dit.ie/media/physics/documents/GPG11.pdf

For example @PC-Magician when was the last time you had your Timegrapher properly calibrated to a traceable known standard such as the NPL or the like ?? 

 

 

For once I must agree, for it is only possible to know either the speed or location of a particle at any one time, therefore you cannot simultaneously know where your watch is and how fast it's going.  :watch:  

The watch check app I use looks for GPS time first, since that is constantly corrected, and then NTP time if that is not available.  There is obviously some processing time, but the source does not need to be accurate, only precise, to measure the rate. 

And I use the app over days, not hours, to see how the watch sits through my usage patterns and activities and temperatures.  If a watch remains fairly precise under all conditions, provided the slight deviations cancel each other out - which is the purpose of adjustment - then it is eminently wearable.

Edited by Jet Jetski
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21 hours ago, BondandBigM said:

I hope you are all factoring in the Uncertainty of Measurement 

:laughing2dw: :laughing2dw:

https://www.dit.ie/media/physics/documents/GPG11.pdf

For example @PC-Magician when was the last time you had your Timegrapher properly calibrated to a traceable known standard such as the NPL or the like ?? 
 

https://www.npl.co.uk

Back in the day we used mechanical stop watches and they were all regularly calibrated in house and once a year externally. 

 

 

Checked against two other machines.

Keep on googling.:wink:

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Have quite a few watches and wearing them in rotation, don't really notice any running way out for accuracy, well not to the degree that it would upset or worry me.

The watch i'm wearing today, got two years ago, Roamer RD100 with the STP1-11, and the first time i wore it, it was running was too fast ended up like 15 minutes fast for the day. Used one of those £5 gadgets you can de-magnitise your watch with, and not a problems since, set the time yesterday tea time for today and it's running -2 seconds for the 24 hours.

 

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