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If anyone is thinking about buying a watch from the sales section and are a bit dubious then I am willing to be used as an escrow type service. The buyer sends me the money, I inform the seller that I have the money. The seller sends the watch. The buyer informs me that they have received it and then I send the money to the seller. 
What does everyone think? 

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Lovely idea, but you may need to be authorised by the FCA under the Payment Services Regulations 2017, or need to jump through hoops to avoid facilitating money laundering.  I'd have thought the better option would be to approach a few professional escrow agents and work out whether any would operate such an arrangement and perhaps want to advertise on the site or sponsor the section.

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1 minute ago, Francis Urquhart said:

Lovely idea, but you may need to be authorised by the FCA under the Payment Services Regulations 2017, or need to jump through hoops to avoid facilitating money laundering.  I'd have thought the better option would be to approach a few professional escrow agents and work out whether any would operate such an arrangement and perhaps want to advertise on the site or sponsor the section.

A lovely offer by @Roy but an excellent point by @Francis Urquhart, holding "client" money pits you into a potential world of form filling and auditing.

It would be a crying shame if a potentially bad experience ruined the chance of it continuing in its current format.

 

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Fab idea .. imho for the majority of us whom have dealt with each other before I think we should continue the same .. in fact most of the members I know post the watch before payment recvd as we know each other .. but this is a good idea if you’ve not dealt with a member etc :)

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A nice offer @Roy but from my experience on here - both buying and selling - there is no need for it.  Everyone I've dealt with in the past has been honest and, as @Sulie said, it's quite common for items to be sent even before payment is received.  I for one am comfortable dealing with established members, but would probably think twice about dealing with anyone who hasn't got a track record and plenty of posts under their belt.

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38 minutes ago, Francis Urquhart said:

Lovely idea, but you may need to be authorised by the FCA under the Payment Services Regulations 2017, or need to jump through hoops to avoid facilitating money laundering.  I'd have thought the better option would be to approach a few professional escrow agents and work out whether any would operate such an arrangement and perhaps want to advertise on the site or sponsor the section.

Isn't there a threshold before that applies. 

I could be wrong but I remember hearing >£5M P. A

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I admire your intentions, but HMRC might want explanations or charge you tax on money you never kept.  Plus then the questions of liability, he said she said etc.

Buyers need to buy the seller first and foremost, and just like platforms like Facebook if you suspect anything then back off

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2 minutes ago, scottswatches said:

I admire your intentions, but HMRC might want explanations or charge you tax on money you never kept.  Plus then the questions of liability, he said she said etc.

Buyers need to buy the seller first and foremost, and just like platforms like Facebook if you suspect anything then back off

You’re right. It was just a thought. 

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Everyone on this forum should really have clear & honest intentions when you using the classifieds section of the forum. In most instances that is the case. 

I appreciate they be the odd occasion that something goes wrong but I would suggest the buyer if has any doubts to use PayPal but not friends+family. Request an invoice from the seller so should give buyer protection should anything go south.

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30 minutes ago, Craftycockney said:

Everyone on this forum should really have clear & honest intentions when you using the classifieds section of the forum. In most instances that is the case. 

I've had more than one occasion on here where I've sold a watch and the buyer has requested time to pay.  They might be waiting for funds from one of their own sales to arrive, or sometimes they simply haven't got the money until payday and just need a bit of time, but don't want to lose the watch (I know it might be hard to believe, but I have sold some desirable watches occasionally... :laughing2dw:).  I have sent them the watch anyway, and then waited until they can afford it, sometimes for a few weeks.  I also accept Paypal "friends and family", or a bank transfer, safe in the knowledge that nothing is likely to go pear-shaped with the transaction.

I think it's important to have a bit of trust when buying and selling on here.  It's what makes this forum such a special place to be :thumbs_up:

 

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2 hours ago, Davey P said:

I think it's important to have a bit of trust when buying and selling on here.  It's what makes this forum such a special place to be :thumbs_up:

 

Dave has hit the nail squarely on the head here. We are all enthusiasts, so why would we cheat on each other and risk a very public expulsion from the forum? One of the reasons for the 50 posts (personally, I would like to see this increased to a minimum of 100) required before being granted access to the sales corner is so that we can get to know a new member, form a relationship, see their watches and forge some trust. This, hopefully, prevents 'one post wonders' coming here, snaffling a nice piece from under the noses of established members at a 'mates rates' price, or selling their pieces easily to enthusiasts, then disappearing never to be heard from again.

Trust is everything. Luckily, I have never had a problem, either buying or selling here, as I feel I 'know' who I'm dealing with. Dialogue is also important, and I will always enter into a series of PMs with whoever I am buying or selling a watch from/to, including acknowledging that funds have arrived, and that the watch has subsequently been posted, with tracking details and certificate of posting, or that I've sent funds and then again when the watch has arrived safely, etc. Trust works both ways. 

There are also many generous members here (you know who you are) who will help others by giving unwanted or specialist/rare items away for free if required...this alone makes this a very special forum. I shall never forget a member sending me a spare link from a super rare Seiko bracelet, unobtainable anywhere else, entirely FOC, and wouldn't even accept the postage cost. Just phenominal.

That's the sort of trust/generosity that is the keystone of this forum.

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23 minutes ago, Roger the Dodger said:

One of the reasons for the 50 posts (personally, I would like to see this increased to 100) required before being granted access to the sales corner is so that we can get to know a new member, form a relationship

Phah! I do 50 through lunch.

I can do a hundred during a decent poop.

 

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Unfortunately no system is infallible no matter the safeguards. 

Fraudsters make it their day jobs to get around the barriers. 

I hope we don't have that here but we're right to be conserned when things go awry and therefore careful as some will abuse the trust we have worked to build. 

I really hope the origin of this conversation is resolved innocently but its good that it's raised warning flags and given us cause to reflect. 

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I don't think @Roy should act as an escrow agent, it would be more trouble than it is worth and there are legal and tax implications as has been pointed out.   

I have been on the forum since 2003 and a moderator for much of that time. There have been very few incidents during this time where sales have proved to be fraudulent. The admin team are good at weeding out new members who look like they are only here to sell before they reach the 50 post classifieds threshold, but we don't catch them all and of course there is no way of telling if one or other is dishonest.

One option would be to increase the Classified access threshold to 200 posts

 

 

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Roy, I am new to this forum but probably like many on here I would air on the side of caution. The FCA has a raft of rules and regulations and prior to retirement I had worked In that  industry for 40+ years . There is also the Tax side of it which needs to be considered. I think  it is a wonderful gesture on your part but leave well alone. I am happy to do “ my time” before I can move to the level of buying and selling as I’m sure any genuine member is.

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2 hours ago, Davey P said:

I've had more than one occasion on here where I've sold a watch and the buyer has requested time to pay.  They might be waiting for funds from one of their own sales to arrive, or sometimes they simply haven't got the money until payday and just need a bit of time, but don't want to lose the watch (I know it might be hard to believe, but I have sold some desirable watches occasionally... :laughing2dw:).  I have sent them the watch anyway, and then waited until they can afford it, sometimes for a few weeks.  I also accept Paypal "friends and family", or a bank transfer, safe in the knowledge that nothing is likely to go pear-shaped with the transaction.

I think it's important to have a bit of trust when buying and selling on here.  It's what makes this forum such a special place to be :thumbs_up:

 

Whole heartily agree Mr P. All my transactions have been spot on and trust is an important thing. 

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4 hours ago, antjrice said:

Isn't there a threshold before that applies. 

I could be wrong but I remember hearing >£5M P. A

Quite possibly, it is far from my comfort zone.   It would just be a shame if a kindly gesture backfired.  Sounds like the plan has been shelved, which is sad but I think sensible.  

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