Jump to content
  • Sign Up to reply and join the friendliest Watch Forum on the web. Stick around, get to 100 posts and be a member for 365 days and gain access to your full profile and additional features such as a personal messaging system, chat room and the sales forum PLUS the chance to enter our regular giveaways.

Regulated in x positions


Recommended Posts

I appreciate that I am probably being really simple here, but how does this work in practice?

I assume the regulation takes place with the watch in one position (or temperature) and is then moved to a second position and regulated again, and so on.

But would the second regulation not render the first regulation irrelevant?

Is it a case of finding the average between several positions?

It's always seemed confusing to me, and I've never found an answer that addresses my (probably stupid) question.

Thanks and apologies in equal measure.

(nb.  Please use simple words and if necessary, diagrams in crayon, within any answers because I fear its all going to sound very technically and leave me still none the wiser!)

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a crack at this although I'm not great at explaining 

They are usually tested in 5 or 6 positions and the regulation is done based on all the results.

Average rate is probably the main consideration, but there is usually a limit to how far out the watch can be in any given position and there is also a limit to the maximum difference between the rates at each position.

 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

These may help...

https://calibercorner.com/positions/

One of my Railroad PW's...

1p6e0pK.jpg

https://www.cosc.swiss/en/quality/precision

CnHh1rI.jpg

Yeowsxf.jpg

https://quillandpad.com/2019/07/18/all-you-need-to-know-about-omegas-metas-master-chronometer-testing-plus-the-de-ville-tresor-in-sedna-gold/

1gYm8Rx.jpg

C8SYSbD.jpg

Russian chronometer testing was far more stringent, certainly in the 50's-60's. regarding temperature & duration.

I believe up to 3 weeks...

1LgGTWr.jpg

 

German Q1...

57Fk9Q3.jpg

WwpJI0X.jpg

 

:thumbsup:

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anyone have details of the Craftmanship tests that were run by the National Physical Laboratory at Teddington ?

From what I've read over the years, this was meant to be the most difficult of the official testing regimes.

My understanding is that the number of watches scoring very high during the Kew chronometer trials prompted them in 1951 to introduce a more stringent criteria.

apparently between 1951-1978 when the trials were run, only 12 watches passed and of those only 1 watch reached the highest grade.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Bricey I have wondered about this. I presume the regulation must be done to the balance wheel directly and some how change the way it is affected by gravity.

A cheap watch can often be regulated to give good results in daily wear, simply by adjusting the effective length of the hairspring but on a timegrapher will most likely show large differences in the rate in different positions.

Better quality watches have tiny weights on the balance wheel that can be adjusted, but to be honest, I don't understand how these can allow a skilled watchmaker to get the rate almost perfect in all positions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure someone with actual knowledge will be along to correct me in a moment:whistle:

The little weights on the balance allow the centre of gravity to be moved in or out, which has an effect on how quickly the balance will rotate.

Think of a figure skater spinning with their arms out, when the bring their arms in (move the mass towards the centre) the speed that they are spinning at increases.

I think that the differences in position are often to do with how well centred the balance spring is, and how concentrically it expands and contracts 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, animalone said:

 

The little weights on the balance allow the centre of gravity to be moved in or out, which has an effect on how quickly the balance will rotate.

This is an aspect that's seldom mentioned, in obtaining maximum accurate performance from the balance wheel.

Poising...

https://clocksavant.com/blogs/news/watch-timing-and-accuracy-static-vs-dynamic-poising-balance-wheel-poising

 

A dear friend, colleague, Master Watchmaker, undertaking this procedure...

nmlCJWU.jpg

 

@animalone

I'll dig out my references for the Kew Observatory Watch Timing Trials & get back to you...

 

:thumbsup:

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, BondandBigM said:

It would be interesting to know how long the test them for. 

Chronometer testing at COSC is 15 days, plus I think they test them for another 4-7 days once they are cased up. 

4 minutes ago, Karrusel said:

 

@animalone

I'll dig out my references for the Kew Observatory Watch Timing Trials & get back to you...

 

:thumbsup:

Thanks, I'd appreciate that :thumbsup:

I know the Kew tests were done over 40 days (8 sets of 5) and that by the end of 1930s the best watches were managing better than half a second per day, but I've never been able to find anything substantial on the craftsmanship test criteria

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@animalone

Hi

All I can lay hands at present, hope they help...

nW5d6MR.jpg

Coventry artisans feature prominently...

pfsgUFo.jpg

Clearly the Toubillon wasn't doing too well :biggrin:

ioUipQe.jpg

 

x76pnmU.jpg

 

The highest score ever attained at the Kew trials was for an OMEGA PW (Cal: 47.7) in 1936.

Having been awarded a score of "97.8 points out of 100" :notworthy:

 

Apologies for quality of images.:(

 

:thumbsup:

 

 

 

Edited by Karrusel
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Karrusel said:

All I can lay hands at present, hope they help...

nW5d6MR.jpg

FOUR WEEKS IN AN OVEN!!!! Jebus!

I know 80-90 degrees Fahrenheit isn't much good for a roast dinner, but even so that must be pretty harsh on a watch.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Bricey said:

FOUR WEEKS IN AN OVEN!!!! Jebus!

I know 80-90 degrees Fahrenheit isn't much good for a roast dinner, but even so that must be pretty harsh on a watch.

 

My local watch shop has all the new watch stock on display in the window but the place where all the preowned are normally displayed is empty and signs in the window saying they have been removed because of the hot weather.

  • Confused 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, chas g said:

My local watch shop has all the new watch stock on display in the window but the place where all the preowned are normally displayed is empty and signs in the window saying they have been removed because of the hot weather.

Good practice, the temperature in shop display windows can reach in excess of 100 degrees Fahrenheit, regularly in summer months.

All my old tat is kept safely away from any direct sunlight!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, WRENCH said:

@Karrusel @animalone 're Kew info, it is /was in the net somewhere. I had it bookmarked, but it went when my last tablet went "phut". I'll see if I can get it again.

Here's other info if you don't already have it.

http://www.observatory.watch/

I need to get a tablet. My windows 10 laptop never stops downloading rubbish from Microsoft courtesy of my data allowance. It also keeps asking for passwords which I find irritating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, chas g said:

It also keeps asking for passwords which I find irritating

Mine keeps asking me to prove I'm not a robot. You're the fvcking robot you stupid computer!

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, chas g said:

I need to get a tablet. My windows 10 laptop never stops downloading rubbish from Microsoft courtesy of my data allowance. It also keeps asking for passwords which I find irritating.

If you're getting the fix your MS account problem, go to microsoft.com and log into your account there. That fixed it for me.

My tablet downloads rubbish from Samsung and Google. There's no escape.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, spinynorman said:

If you're getting the fix your MS account problem, go to microsoft.com and log into your account there. That fixed it for me.

My tablet downloads rubbish from Samsung and Google. There's no escape.

Do you by any chance have a samsung tab A tablet. I have a samsung phone and thought that was the one I should get. The only use would be the internet, messages and emails 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, chas g said:

Do you by any chance have a samsung tab A tablet. I have a samsung phone and thought that was the one I should get. The only use would be the internet, messages and emails 

I have a fairly old Samsung galaxy Tab S. I don't like it, but I can't justify the cost of replacing it.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, chas g said:

I need to get a tablet. My windows 10 laptop never stops downloading rubbish from Microsoft courtesy of my data allowance. It also keeps asking for passwords which I find irritating.

Get the cheapest Kindle.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...