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Second Watch Design Test


Monaque
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Hi.

Wasn't sure where to put this, you don't have a dedicated watchmaking or designing section that I could see.

I decided, pretty much before the first was finished, that I was going to build a second watch. I have pretty much completed all the designs, and the drawings are all finished, plus some preliminary turning on the main parts, but I have still to finish the dial design. I have decided to post some 3d renders of the watch with different dials installed, and get some feedback from different eyes, if that's alright by you guys.

As usual my dial designs are not an ordinary bunch, I'll never be accused of being normal. :laugh: The first is a preliminary render with older style hands, and throughout there are some different colours making up the parts. The software I use does a creditable job of approximating the metals that are used but it never seems quite right, plus I'm still learning the rendering side of it. At the end there are some renders with Rose Engine style dials. I've been thinking of trying to CNC some Guilloche dials, see if it works. I know it isn't real Rose Engine turning but unless I come into some money I'm never going to be producing Guilloche work in its truest sense.

Also, at the end some of the hands have an odd blue colour around the rings, these are my attempt to create Luminova without the night to make them visible, you'll just have to use your imagination on those. If I do make use of Luminova it will be my first attempt at doing that. I'm also going to make my hands out of steel this time, and blue the hands.

KW15_Dial1.jpg

KW15_Dial2.jpg

KW15_Dial3.jpg

KW15_Dial4.jpg

KW15_Dial5.jpg

KW15_Dial6.jpg

KW15_Dial7.jpg

KW15_Dial8.jpg

KW15_Dial9.jpg

KW15_Dial10.jpg

KW15_Dial11.jpg

KW15_Dial12.jpg

KW15_Dial13.jpg

KW15_Dial14.jpg

KW15_Dial15.jpg

 

Sorry about the amount of images, I had quite a few ideas.

Thanks for looking.

Monaque

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Awesome work.

I really like the look of the lugs, case and the crown.

I appreciate that the only true answer here is "its your watch you are making for you, so pick the dial that you like best", but if you want inut and feedback/thoughts from others, then for me (someone of pretty plain and bland tastes generally I will admit), then this is the dial for me:

KW15_Dial11.jpg&xguid=7a0592e58909071218

Although being dull and boring, I'd be inclined to have a 12 instead of the Zero hour.

With this one, I love that the seconds dial is going to give you those quarterly views, A train track minute track is never disappointing to see, and the play of the spot catching end to the minute hand lining up for those 5 minute dots is cool.

And probably daft suggestion (as matching the style of the minute and hour hands make sense and probably looks 'right') but given that there is nothing for the hour hand to 'catch' on the dial, rather than have the recess on the end, make it a lollipop with the cyan circle/hole moved on to the end, but at the same length from the centre as the one on the minute hand, so that you get an hourly 'eclipse' as the minute and hour cross over and their openings cover each other?

Or even more daft, leave it in the middle of the hour hand, but align it with the one on the longer minute hand, slightly lengthen the second hand, so that all three circles are in the same orbit, would be like a three planet version of one of these:

039n10172-bc5vs.jpg

 

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17 minutes ago, WRENCH said:

I'd go for this one too,

KW15_Dial12.jpg

although I'd try the same material as the crown for the hoops on the hands, just to see how it looks.

Like this one too, though I don't think any of the dial designs are bad. Are you prepared to share any more details? Quartz, auto, movement, size etc.

Love the crown (looks like something out of a gearbox!), the black inserts on the case, curved springbars etc etc etc. I'd happily buy one :thumbs_up:

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@ Bricey; JayDeep; WRENCH; pauluspoalo; SolaVeritate - Thanks you for all your kind comments. With your indulgence, I will address your suggestions tomorrow or Sunday, when I have had a chance to think about them, and/or, do some modeling. Just wanted to make sure you knew I appreciated your comments.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Monaque said:

@ Bricey; JayDeep; WRENCH; pauluspoalo; SolaVeritate - Thanks you for all your kind comments. With your indulgence, I will address your suggestions tomorrow or Sunday, when I have had a chance to think about them, and/or, do some modeling. Just wanted to make sure you knew I appreciated your comments.

 

 

I'm sure I'm not alone (the comments certainly suggest I'm not) in saying I (we) appreciate you taking us along for the ride, it is fascinating to see in real time the decisions, considerations, options, and no doubt problems and road blocks that you will face along the way.

I think I'd be right in saying that those of us that have posted comments thus far are generally lovers of watches, but not experienced in the art of watchmaking, unlike a number of other members (the Boss, @Roy as the most obvious example as a revered watch maker) whilst there are also many that are knowledgeable in all manner of areas of putting together a watch.

It's a call for the mods as to the best forum for these posts (personally I hope they stay in this main forum as I feel they will be of interest to all watch enthusiasts irrespective of their level of knowledge or experience with the insides of a watch), but there is also a sub forum dedicated to technical aspects and watch repair, that might be a good place to search through when you find a difficult issue that others may have had to overcome before, or are looking for views on something more technical than "which dial is prettiest".

https://thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?/forum/13-technical-questions-general-help/

I'm genuinely excited to see how this develops with your new project and hope that you are happy to share as you go so that we can all experience the UPS, downs and sideways that I should imagine you will face.

 

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13 hours ago, Bricey said:

I'm sure I'm not alone (the comments certainly suggest I'm not) in saying I (we) appreciate you taking us along for the ride, it is fascinating to see in real time the decisions, considerations, options, and no doubt problems and road blocks that you will face along the way.

I think I'd be right in saying that those of us that have posted comments thus far are generally lovers of watches, but not experienced in the art of watchmaking, unlike a number of other members (the Boss, @Roy as the most obvious example as a revered watch maker) whilst there are also many that are knowledgeable in all manner of areas of putting together a watch.

It's a call for the mods as to the best forum for these posts (personally I hope they stay in this main forum as I feel they will be of interest to all watch enthusiasts irrespective of their level of knowledge or experience with the insides of a watch), but there is also a sub forum dedicated to technical aspects and watch repair, that might be a good place to search through when you find a difficult issue that others may have had to overcome before, or are looking for views on something more technical than "which dial is prettiest".

https://thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?/forum/13-technical-questions-general-help/

I'm genuinely excited to see how this develops with your new project and hope that you are happy to share as you go so that we can all experience the UPS, downs and sideways that I should imagine you will face.

 

Thanks for the vote, and I'd certainly be happy to start a 'making of' thread if that is something that would interest you guys. I have done one before, on another forum, so it wouldn't be a problem. I started this thread for the concepts side of things, and to get feedback on my second watch build and wasn't expecting it to go that far, since the building itself would take over - very soon in fact, as I have already made a start on the turning of one or two parts.

I will check out the watch repair thread and see what's there.

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In the mean time posting some older renders of a previous watch design (I have a few, to be honest) showing different dials and hands. The watch is still based on the first watch design with, what I call, a flying bezel.

KW13_Dial1.jpg

KW13_Dial3.jpg

 

If you are interested I don't mind posting images of previous watch designs. Maybe on another more conceptual thread. There was a time I was entirely interested in making my hands with that curved design on the first render, I do still like that design.

 

To address some questions from before:

Both the moon eclipse effect and the planetary designs of the hand circles are interesting and I'll work on some modeling and post the results of that.

The circles of the hands are actually all one material, Steel, and couldn't be made of two, not without a huge amount of work involved. It's an intriguing idea, maybe another time. The only reason there is blue on the circles is my rather ham-fisted attempt at adding Luminova to the hands.

 

The crown in the renders is Aluminium Bronze, but I'm trying a few materials, see what works best. The rest of the parts are made from as follows:

Flying Bezel - 316 SS (but am also making an Aluminium one, made from Aerospace 7075)

Body - Aluminium 7075 (hard anodized to provide some scratch resistance)

Back - Titanium

Hands - Steel (thermally blued)

Crown - Nibron (also called Copper Nickel Bronze) and another from 7075 Aluminium)

Movement Ring - Aluminium 7075

Buckle and Tongue - Titanium

 

In the renders the body appears black, because I'm hard anodizing the Aluminium body and that comes in black or dark grey. I've approximated it in the renders.

I'm going to machine some different versions of most of the parts and see what works best. I even have one I'm machining from 316 SS with a piece of Aluminium Bronze pressed inside of it.

WRENCH may be right in that a manual wind movement may be the best use of the crown as it is.

So, a Sellita mechanical movement will be used, I will machine everything around the specs of that. I'm not against quartz, they make a very accurate watch (unless you are George Daniels and can make a mechanical watch that will only lose a couple of seconds a month (Daniels Co-Axial Escapement used), still getting my head around that), and are very cheap to buy. Some of the top watchmakers have designed some of their watches using a quartz movement also, now they are expensive.

@SolaVeritate - Those project watches are interesting, some really unusual designs there. I really like the Beyond The horizons (although it can't possibly weigh 1lb?), and the Elos, earth orbit, watch, although there are so many good designs. Obviously quartz but may splash out of one or two because the prices are reasonable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, pauluspaolo said:

I for one would be very interested in seeing a watch build thread.

If this is your second watch design what was your first?? :huh: :thumbs_up:

I posted pictures of it here:

 

BTW I've been trying to find the edit button, as I post sometimes and forget things, or notice a typo (drives me mad) or want to add things, but can't.

Case in point, I also have an Instagram account if anyone moves in those circles. It's only about my watchmaking, so nothing too crazy.

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1 hour ago, Monaque said:

In the mean time posting some older renders of a previous watch design (I have a few, to be honest) showing different dials and hands. The watch is still based on the first watch design with, what I call, a flying bezel.

KW13_Dial1.jpg

KW13_Dial3.jpg

 

If you are interested I don't mind posting images of previous watch designs. Maybe on another more conceptual thread. There was a time I was entirely interested in making my hands with that curved design on the first render, I do still like that design.

 

To address some questions from before:

Both the moon eclipse effect and the planetary designs of the hand circles are interesting and I'll work on some modeling and post the results of that.

The circles of the hands are actually all one material, Steel, and couldn't be made of two, not without a huge amount of work involved. It's an intriguing idea, maybe another time. The only reason there is blue on the circles is my rather ham-fisted attempt at adding Luminova to the hands.

 

The crown in the renders is Aluminium Bronze, but I'm trying a few materials, see what works best. The rest of the parts are made from as follows:

Flying Bezel - 316 SS (but am also making an Aluminium one, made from Aerospace 7075)

Body - Aluminium 7075 (hard anodized to provide some scratch resistance)

Back - Titanium

Hands - Steel (thermally blued)

Crown - Nibron (also called Copper Nickel Bronze) and another from 7075 Aluminium)

Movement Ring - Aluminium 7075

Buckle and Tongue - Titanium

 

In the renders the body appears black, because I'm hard anodizing the Aluminium body and that comes in black or dark grey. I've approximated it in the renders.

I'm going to machine some different versions of most of the parts and see what works best. I even have one I'm machining from 316 SS with a piece of Aluminium Bronze pressed inside of it.

WRENCH may be right in that a manual wind movement may be the best use of the crown as it is.

So, a Sellita mechanical movement will be used, I will machine everything around the specs of that. I'm not against quartz, they make a very accurate watch (unless you are George Daniels and can make a mechanical watch that will only lose a couple of seconds a month (Daniels Co-Axial Escapement used), still getting my head around that), and are very cheap to buy. Some of the top watchmakers have designed some of their watches using a quartz movement also, now they are expensive.

@SolaVeritate - Those project watches are interesting, some really unusual designs there. I really like the Beyond The horizons (although it can't possibly weigh 1lb?), and the Elos, earth orbit, watch, although there are so many good designs. Obviously quartz but may splash out of one or two because the prices are reasonable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I posted pictures of it here:

 

BTW I've been trying to find the edit button, as I post sometimes and forget things, or notice a typo (drives me mad) or want to add things, but can't.

Case in point, I also have an Instagram account if anyone moves in those circles. It's only about my watchmaking, so nothing too crazy.

You only get a small time window to edit, I think 10 or 15 minutes, so if you come back to it later and realise you've got as many typo's as me, then you're screwed. 

 

I really like the hands on this one...

KW13_Dial1.jpg

The dial is too plain, even for the accountant in me, but with the font and minute track like this one....

KW15_Dial12.jpg

I think it would look exactly like a watch should.

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@Monaque the website i pointed you to was ideally more for the formation of designers producing watches than the watches themselves. 

We are seeing more these days of groups of designers gathering together to place ideas on the marketplace by joining a group of backers who will invest in designers (tokyoflash springs to mind also).

These ideas you have produce interesting results.. (one person likes one, another likes another, etc) and with backing and analytics can produce sales based on marketing.

Right now, you have the ability to gain interest (if not already) and should do so if inclined.

We are all fascinated to be introduced to such endeavour but perhaps it should be used as research after industry engagement. 

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Some more renders based on your suggestions.

KW15_Dial17.jpg

KW15_Dial18.jpg

KW15_Dial19.jpg

Left out the holes on the last one because the holes were supposed to interact with something on the dial which would mean a complete re-design.

 

@Bricey - Ah, well, never saw the option anyway. I guess I'll just have to be more careful :wink:

@SolaVeritate - I honestly never saw that as a thing, it never occurred to me. Having looked at the site again I do see those designers are known in some respect, whereas I am not. Also, how on earth do you even start in that field? Perhaps, as you suggested, I need to do some research. I have plenty of ideas and will work on some in the meantime. It does feel like it would be something that would fit as I also have an art background. Tokyoflash was interesting, a lot of cool retro eighties style.

 

Forgive me for musing a bit, but I do get asked about selling my watches sometimes but am uncertain as to the best way forward, or whether there is one. Designing rather than building I hadn't considered, but may be worth looking into. Crowdfunding...well isn't Crowdfunding a watch idea/concept a bit of an overcrowded thing these days, every man and his watch seems to be doing it? And then you have to find a good company to make it, preferably Swiss (even though I work for an Engineering company we aren't a watchmaking company at all, just sub-contract). I often look at Ming watches and see how they did theirs, and how they are producing good quality watches and asking for money up front to pay for the production costs.

Anyway, I might have a go at some quartz based watch designs and start another thread for watch concepts.

 

And I forgot something.

Someone asked about the crown, about the gear form. It is, in fact, based on a gear form. It's not a real gear form, that would be much more complex to produce. I have spent a little of my time as an engineer with gear cutting and it's one of the most complex areas in engineering. My gear form is just a 60 degree inclusive angle with a flat on the bottom. I will use our CNC mill at work to produce the form and use a carbide engraving tool with a flat ground on the bottom cut it.

 

@Bricey - After only a minute or two posting I still couldn't find the edit button and wonder whether it's something to do with my having been here only a short while.

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39 minutes ago, Monaque said:

@Bricey - After only a minute or two posting I still couldn't find the edit button and wonder whether it's something to do with my having been here only a short while.

Could be, maybe a mod could confirm. It's normally available from the three dots to the top right of the post.

I like this one a lot (although many on here would quite rightly point out that my tastes should probably NOT be considered in the design of any wristwatch!)

KW15_Dial18.jpg

With regards having something different that sets you apart from (most of) the crowd in an already crowded space, there are a few watchmakers, some very high end ( @yokel has certainly mentioned some in the past) and a few more budget friendly (Undone spring immediately to mind, https://www.undone.com/en/landing/every-watch-has-a-story-how-to-customize/) where you are able to customise or personalise the watch at the point of order (and initial down payment one would presume) so that from a pallet of options the buyer can chose their own specific set up and end up with an (almost) unique watch (assuming no one else selects the exact same set of specs).

The other thing I think you have that sets you apart from the majority of the crowd is the use of mixed materials for different aspects of the watch.

Usually a stainless steel case means by default a stainless steel crown, SS backplate, often times a SS bezel. That you mix the materials so readily in your creations gives you a USP compared to the majority of the market (and certainly anything that is mass produced).

Finally, the ability for a buyer to be included in the design and build journey of their watch is something that is going to be extremely rare. 

I'm imagining buyers log in on your website where rather than just a dull and boring time log of the stage their watch is at, a detailed, personalised and illustrated log of the steps, much like the watch build thread we discussed on here, so the buyer feels like they are part of the development and then build of their watch. I feel that would make it a very special experience and enhance the value of the watch.

The buyer feels they had a significant hand in the design and specification of their watch, that they were present and overseeing the development and build of their watch, and as such endnup with a watch that is both uniquely their own and that they feel they designed and built precisely for themselves (all be it through your skill and labour).

Obviously, this route is probably difficult to scale to any significant degree, and will have to be factored in to a costing scheme that allows you to see a reward for your time and effort, whilst providing a finished product that does not seem overly priced for the level of skill, craftmanship, and expertise that you can offer (please don't think I mean this as a slight, you're clearly an extremely skilled person. More that if the pricepoint ends up in direct competition with some of the existing high end watchmakers offering less personalisation but afforded greater brand recognition and brand history).

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 26/09/2021 at 10:53, Bricey said:

Could be, maybe a mod could confirm. It's normally available from the three dots to the top right of the post.

I like this one a lot (although many on here would quite rightly point out that my tastes should probably NOT be considered in the design of any wristwatch!)

KW15_Dial18.jpg

With regards having something different that sets you apart from (most of) the crowd in an already crowded space, there are a few watchmakers, some very high end ( @yokel has certainly mentioned some in the past) and a few more budget friendly (Undone spring immediately to mind, https://www.undone.com/en/landing/every-watch-has-a-story-how-to-customize/) where you are able to customise or personalise the watch at the point of order (and initial down payment one would presume) so that from a pallet of options the buyer can chose their own specific set up and end up with an (almost) unique watch (assuming no one else selects the exact same set of specs).

The other thing I think you have that sets you apart from the majority of the crowd is the use of mixed materials for different aspects of the watch.

Usually a stainless steel case means by default a stainless steel crown, SS backplate, often times a SS bezel. That you mix the materials so readily in your creations gives you a USP compared to the majority of the market (and certainly anything that is mass produced).

Finally, the ability for a buyer to be included in the design and build journey of their watch is something that is going to be extremely rare. 

I'm imagining buyers log in on your website where rather than just a dull and boring time log of the stage their watch is at, a detailed, personalised and illustrated log of the steps, much like the watch build thread we discussed on here, so the buyer feels like they are part of the development and then build of their watch. I feel that would make it a very special experience and enhance the value of the watch.

The buyer feels they had a significant hand in the design and specification of their watch, that they were present and overseeing the development and build of their watch, and as such endnup with a watch that is both uniquely their own and that they feel they designed and built precisely for themselves (all be it through your skill and labour).

Obviously, this route is probably difficult to scale to any significant degree, and will have to be factored in to a costing scheme that allows you to see a reward for your time and effort, whilst providing a finished product that does not seem overly priced for the level of skill, craftmanship, and expertise that you can offer (please don't think I mean this as a slight, you're clearly an extremely skilled person. More that if the pricepoint ends up in direct competition with some of the existing high end watchmakers offering less personalisation but afforded greater brand recognition and brand history).

 

I'll certainly look into it as I build the second watch, it will take me some time so will give me the space to check it all out. The other option is just to try the crowdfunding option, not sure what happens if you don't meet your financial goal, another thing to look into. Guess I need to do some research. :character0275:

I might try the dial and hand design that I did for the quarz design on this model, be an interesting experiment.

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