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eBay UK Authenticating Watches


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55 minutes ago, Igerswis said:

I'm assuming he's referring to the fake bidders that push the prices up for those bidding genuinely.

My annoyances tend to lie with those that bid in the last few seconds, win the auction and then don't pay or respond to any emails.

Ebay does nothing to stop these idiots, the best scenario is that you can offer it to the second placed bidder for their bid price or reclaim the seller fees.

The other type of "bad buyer" that I have come across are the ones that win an auction, pay and then come back to complain and return the item despite it being exactly as described.

I've had a watch I sold with the title "BROKEN Ingersoll gents automatic watch - For Parts Only/not working" that went for under a tenner.

A week later I got a message from ebay that the buyer has requested a return, their reason, "the watch is not working, sorry thought it just needed a battery or something."

I then have the option of paying for the return postage (on top of the outgoing postage I've already paid) to relist the watch knowing that the £5-9 I'm likely to get for relisting it is barely going to cover the three lots of postage, plus the ebay fees, or just telling them to keep it and giving a full refund.

Ebay always, ALWAYS, side with the buyer however ridiculous the claim, so it's not worth the fight.

The only plus side to this is that unlike others on this thread I have no fear BUYING through eBay as I know that I will 100% get my money back if the item is not exactly as described or expected.

I have less concerns buying through eBay than I do a high street store or main retailer, stores will often only offer the terms of their sale (usually a repair, I didn't want a repaired watch when paying for a new watch!), where as ebay will give me my full stake back if I have any dissatisfaction whatsoever with my purchase.

 

Edited by Bricey
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3 hours ago, Igerswis said:

I'm assuming he's referring to the fake bidders that push the prices up for those bidding genuinely.

Yes, the ones who win but then don't pay. Fake because they're not real. 

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2 hours ago, Bricey said:

The other type of "bad buyer" that I have come across are the ones that win an auction, pay and then come back to complain and return the item despite it being exactly as described

eBay should "flag up" these people, and any seller should have the right to block their bids. I have friends who have lost their goods to this type of buyer, because the value to hassle ratio wasn't worth the bother. Most recent excuse was the post box was too far to walk to, to return the item.

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8 minutes ago, WRENCH said:

eBay should "flag up" these people, and any seller should have the right to block their bids. I have friends who have lost their goods to this type of buyer, because the value to hassle ratio wasn't worth the bother. Most recent excuse was the post box was too far to walk to, to return the item.

You can removed bids if you think they look dodgy, I've done that. You can also block users from bidding, I do that too.

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14 hours ago, Monaque said:

Interesting, but for me, I couldn't imagine spending that kind of money. I guess there are safeguards, and now more so. But, not for me.

To be Honest it really is a Buyers Market , the watch was cheaper overseas than in uk , that is including the dreaded import tax 

Ebay is money back if anything went wrong so little risk that is my view of course and i would not tell anyone to do it unless they are comfortable doing so 

On Ebay the buyer has more rights than if you buy from a Antiques fair etc unless you know the dealer of course 

but like i said i had the watch check everything was Great even better than i thought 

Most important think i would say buy from overseas is Import tax and Exchange rate 

Paypal if you use them to pay is not the Normal exchange rate ,so for example you bid 6800 for a watch if you use paypal to pay so you are safe it will turn out say 7000 

Then the import tax of course which if parcel is sent by DHL / Fedex they will ask for the money before watch is delivered  

i would say ebay sellers who are watch dealers give a better description than most auction house and then do not charge the 30 to 35 % fees that auctions do 

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13 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

To be Honest it really is a Buyers Market , the watch was cheaper overseas than in uk , that is including the dreaded import tax 

Ebay is money back if anything went wrong so little risk that is my view of course and i would not tell anyone to do it unless they are comfortable doing so 

On Ebay the buyer has more rights than if you buy from a Antiques fair etc unless you know the dealer of course 

but like i said i had the watch check everything was Great even better than i thought 

Most important think i would say buy from overseas is Import tax and Exchange rate 

Paypal if you use them to pay is not the Normal exchange rate ,so for example you bid 6800 for a watch if you use paypal to pay so you are safe it will turn out say 7000 

Then the import tax of course which if parcel is sent by DHL / Fedex they will ask for the money before watch is delivered  

i would say ebay sellers who are watch dealers give a better description than most auction house and then do not charge the 30 to 35 % fees that auctions do 

I’ve just bought from Japan using PayPal and saved about 5% against using PayPal currency rate by paying in local currency on PayPal using a credit card with a good conversion rate.

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20 minutes ago, Bow said:

I’ve just bought from Japan using PayPal and saved about 5% against using PayPal currency rate by paying in local currency on PayPal using a credit card with a good conversion rate.

thanks i will look into that when i buy again ! can not get near anything at the moment lost out on a Gorgeous Gmt Rootbeer the other day Grrrrrrr

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I had all the permutations of bad Ebay experiences over the years. Here's an inexhaustive list. 

The charge back guy.Finally paid only after he'd sold the watch on. 

The guy who broke the watch then wanted his money back. 

The one who pretended the watch had become lost in the mail. In fact it has been delivered Poste restante at his request and he hasn't picked it up. 

Another who left bad feedback after a few months because the watch has developed a slight fault. 

The movement changer who swapped the high ebauche 7750 movement in the watch for a basic agricultural version and then alleged I'd sold it like that. 

Never again. Ebay have ruined it for normal private sellers in my opinion. 

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@ongHow does the situation arise where the buyer doesn’t pay? 
I use eBay in the same way as I  do any other retail outlet, I select the goods, pay for them and await delivery. Can you really order stuff without paying for it?

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48 minutes ago, Bow said:

@ongHow does the situation arise where the buyer doesn’t pay? 
I use eBay in the same way as I  do any other retail outlet, I select the goods, pay for them and await delivery. Can you really order stuff without paying for it?

Quite easily. They can ask for the sale to be cancelled, produce no end of excuses about their dog dying etc, or just disappear. Ebay give them a non payment strike but won't take real action. In the meantime it's more aggro for the seller. 

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41 minutes ago, Bow said:

@ongHow does the situation arise where the buyer doesn’t pay? 
I use eBay in the same way as I  do any other retail outlet, I select the goods, pay for them and await delivery. Can you really order stuff without paying for it?

I can't speak for @ong but I've had it happen several different ways.

The ones that ping you a message minutes after "winning" your auction, saying:

- I didn't expect to win.

- My kids bid on this on my ipad.

- I didn't expect it to go that high and I can't afford it.

Or any number of lame excuses. What are you as the seller (or to be fair, ebay as the host) going to do, how can you demand payment for an item you still have in your hand? You're only option is to see if bidder #2 wants it or relist it.

The second, sadly all too common, scenario is just getting ghosted. Someone wins you auction, never pays, never replies to messages asking if they'll pay or if they are going to honour their purchase.

Again, what do you do? If you could track them down and drag them to court the judge would say "pay for the item or return the item". As they never received the item (as they never paid) the resolution to the problem has already happened.

My only issue is that sites like badbuyer.com and badbuyerlist.org list reports of non paying (or dishonest buy and return merchants like ong detailed above), so why can't eBay boot them off and keep their email addresses, physical addresses, bank/paypal details to prevent them rejoining eBay and messing things up for people?

 

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On 11/10/2021 at 09:52, it'salivejim said:

At the moment it's free. I bet, down the line, ebay will make it compulsory for watch sales over ££££s and charge a fee.

I can understand the need for it though with so many fakes washing through the system. It's protecting itself as well as the punter.

Looks like you're right

image.png.a9512626fb8e958fa7b5eecb1e3c27ee.png

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18 hours ago, Bow said:

@ongHow does the situation arise where the buyer doesn’t pay? 
I use eBay in the same way as I  do any other retail outlet, I select the goods, pay for them and await delivery. Can you really order stuff without paying for it?

Perhaps I don't use Ebay enough but I've never had that happen to me, or any of the list of excuses made for not paying. I would have been with @Bow and be astonished that people actually do that.

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26 minutes ago, Monaque said:

Perhaps I don't use Ebay enough but I've never had that happen to me, or any of the list of excuses made for not paying. I would have been with @Bow and be astonished that people actually do that.

Be astonished, unfortunately there are r-souls about and over time I think they realise that ebay don't and won't do anything about it, meaning it's open season to play silly games.

Before venturing onto the Internet and message boards, the idea of a 'troll' does (or should) sound a ridiculous notion, someone putting time and effort into causing upset, offense or just arguments with complete strangers with no motivation other than to 'be a troll'.

But we have all seen it happen time and again. Scroll to the bottom of any online article that allows comments and there they are, every time, 100% guaranteed. 

Some people just aspire to be the grit in societies shoe.

 

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23 minutes ago, Bricey said:

Be astonished, unfortunately there are r-souls about and over time I think they realise that ebay don't and won't do anything about it, meaning it's open season to play silly games.

Before venturing onto the Internet and message boards, the idea of a 'troll' does (or should) sound a ridiculous notion, someone putting time and effort into causing upset, offense or just arguments with complete strangers with no motivation other than to 'be a troll'.

But we have all seen it happen time and again. Scroll to the bottom of any online article that allows comments and there they are, every time, 100% guaranteed. 

Some people just aspire to be the grit in societies shoe.

 

Digital vandals I guess.

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2 hours ago, Monaque said:

Digital vandals I guess.

I think some are.

Although we've all had it when you are torn between two watches on an auction, but your first choice finishes second. I think sometimes they bid and win their back-up that finishes first knowing that if they later on win their first choice, they can just not pay for the first one or send some crappy excuse, nothing is going to happen that bothers them, and why should they care that the seller (and to some extent, the second place bidder) get messed around?

They're probably the same people that leave their shopping trolley's in the parking space next to they're car or let the door swing shut when you are right behind them.

Twunts.

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13 minutes ago, Bricey said:

I think some are.

Although we've all had it when you are torn between two watches on an auction, but your first choice finishes second. I think sometimes they bid and win their back-up that finishes first knowing that if they later on win their first choice, they can just not pay for the first one or send some crappy excuse, nothing is going to happen that bothers them, and why should they care that the seller (and to some extent, the second place bidder) get messed around?

They're probably the same people that leave their shopping trolley's in the parking space next to they're car or let the door swing shut when you are right behind them.

Twunts.

Life is full of a******s I'm afraid. Used to be they stayed under the radar, you couldn't see them, but now I think they just don't care.

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I wonder if even though they are not "authenticated" as such, they can be "authenticated for sale" as described by the seller. 

It would take a very good fake to get past an extreme visual inspection even without an inspection of its movement (especially if you know what you are looking for day in day out).

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9 hours ago, SolaVeritate said:

I wonder if even though they are not "authenticated" as such, they can be "authenticated for sale" as described by the seller. 

It would take a very good fake to get past an extreme visual inspection even without an inspection of its movement (especially if you know what you are looking for day in day out).

Wouldn't you have to know what you are looking at though, most 'inspctors' wouldn't know about watches enough to tell, in my opinion. They would have to employ a watchmaking expert.

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1 hour ago, Monaque said:

Wouldn't you have to know what you are looking at though, most 'inspctors' wouldn't know about watches enough to tell, in my opinion. They would have to employ a watchmaking expert.

I'm sure even someone who used to work for Customs and Excise can weed out 90% as "wrong" taking a large %load away from someone with a more skillful eye to inspect the rest. If we keep this in mind, when we think about high end fakes, they are also mass produced and large batches have "tells" that are easy to spot when you know what you are looking for day in day out. Watch brands will probably be outsourced to certain people/teams who will handle those brands daily.

Yes, thousands of watches pass through eBay daily but as I believe this service is only for timepeices above a certain cost, how many will pass through such a service? 

Personally I can't see myself using this service as I want to hold and have authenticated any peice I would consider spending that much money on. Considering that i don't flip watches for profit it won't affect me either way, my opinion is therefore moot.

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5 minutes ago, SolaVeritate said:

I'm sure even someone who used to work for Customs and Excise can weed out 90% as "wrong" taking a large %load away from someone with a more skillful eye to inspect the rest. If we keep this in mind, when we think about high end fakes, they are also mass produced and large batches have "tells" that are easy to spot when you know what you are looking for day in day out. Watch brands will probably be outsourced to certain people/teams who will handle those brands daily.

Yes, thousands of watches pass through eBay daily but as I believe this service is only for timepeices above a certain cost, how many will pass through such a service? 

Personally I can't see myself using this service as I want to hold and have authenticated any peice I would consider spending that much money on. Considering that i don't flip watches for profit it won't affect me either way, my opinion is therefore moot.

Mine too on this, at the moment I'm not buying my watches but making them, not that I wouldn't be against buying one in the future - but never from Ebay, I think.

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17 hours ago, SolaVeritate said:

I wonder if even though they are not "authenticated" as such, they can be "authenticated for sale" as described by the seller. 

It would take a very good fake to get past an extreme visual inspection even without an inspection of its movement (especially if you know what you are looking for day in day out).

From what I read on their site and from messaging ebay directly, this is exactly how they will be operating. Lets hope Stoll & Co (ebay has partnered with them) are reputable. I cant find out much about them from a quick google, but maybe they are well known.

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