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Guest Bruce

Seiko J or K

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Guest Bruce

recently i contacted the Seiko Japan head office to try and put to rest the issue of the J and K on some Seiko's

i asked them whether J was made in Japan

here is their vague response

Dear Mr. Fraser,

We acknowledge receiving your inquiry. We thank you for your interest in our products.

To begin with, please be advised that we do not have any concern about information 
posted in watch forums on the Internet. Due to this, we are not in the position 
to make any comments on such information, even if you ask us about it. 

"Seiko" continues to produce watches not only Grand Seiko's but also other categories. 
Such watches have a marking of Japan as the country of origin. 

On the other hand, as any other Japanese manufacturers do, 
"Seiko" has expanded its production sites outside Japan in several different facilities.

Furthermore, the quality of all watches manufactured outside Japan is equally controlled 
as is the manufacturing standard in Japan by Japanese management. 
Thus, there is no difference between Japan-made and outside-Japan-made products. 

We hope the above is a satisfactory answer to your inquiry. 

Since we receive tons of inquiries every day from many customers in general 
and accordingly we would like to treat inquiries about repair service and purchase as well preferentially, 
we might not spare time to reply to you even if you raise any additional inquiries. 
Thank you for your understanding. 


With best regards,
CS Dept.
SEIKO WATCH CORPORATION
************************************************************************
Information supplied by our customers will only be shared within the SEIKO organization and its associated entities. 
The above is just our response to the sender of this inquiry and should not be presented to any other person(s) and entities.
************************************************************************

i am a little disappointed with the reply especially as a recently posted youtube video showing the difference between a J and a K 007 or 009 i forget which, there was clearly a difference, but was this just a one off?

i suppose Seiko cant be expected to admit there is a difference [ if there is ] as this would obviously affect sales [ as it already does ] if it became common knowledge 

i wish i could find the email i got from them a few years ago where they clearly stated J was Japan and K was Kuala lumpur, but then maybe their manufacturing priorities have changed since then, i guess we can read between the lines though and as Kev said in the other post,maybe J and K are destination countries rather than origin

its all still as clear as mud :biggrin:

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Pretty surprised by that last section. Essentially unless you are contacting for warranty or purchasing, you're not worth our time and effort. 

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but quality control does not equal build quality. They might use the same level of coontrol as in Japan but that doesn't therefore means they are the same quality product.

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Guest Bruce
12 minutes ago, hughlle said:

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but quality control does not equal build quality.

i think you are right Hugh, it simply means set standards will continue even if the standards are low, unlikely with Seiko though i would have thought,  although i still believe a watch built in Japan will be better than one made in Malaysia:yes:

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If the workforce is trained to the same standard and the management is Japanese then there is no reason why the quality should be lower.

Wonder how many people check where their car was made? 

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6 minutes ago, richy176 said:

If the workforce is trained to the same standard and the management is Japanese then there is no reason why the quality should be lower.

Wonder how many people check where their car was made? 

That would simply mean there is the same level of quality control. No matter how well trained the staff, if the boss man said we are using X stainless steel because it is a bit cheaper, training won't change the fact. The watch will meet seikos level of QC while being of lesser quality. 

Take a restaurant as an example. 2 identical teams if chefs in regard to training and capability. Give one a piece of fillet and one a piece of brisket, both will be cooked with the same care, attention, within FH specification etc, but one is still a better quality piece of meat.

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And is there any evidence that they do use different quality materials? That would be down to company policy rather than local management.

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This is all hypothetical and speculation. The point is that 2 factories using the same quality control procedures do not have to make the same quality product. Seiko have neither confirmed or denied anything, responding with an email which means squat in terms of the actual question at hand. Quality control does not equal quality.

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Guest Bruce

i think there are 2 scenarios:

they make identical watches in Malaysia and Japan and the Japanese watches are superior maybe due to work ethics

or

the J and K watches are all made in Malaysia and the quality varies slightly 

either way its probably not in Seiko's best interest to admit fully to either as it would affect potential buyers 

i would buy either J or K, but given the choice if the prices were the same i would only buy J marked watches and that is only because of the perception that J is better.

one thing is without doubt though, if the word Japanese is anywhere on the watch it IS made in Japan :yes:

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I saw the video last week comparing the K and J SKX009s. Worth watching however I have owned several SKX007/9s all of them the K version and with a close inspection there were many significant minor differences in the fit and finish between them. You could not tell from a distance and I was hesitant to say which one I preferred but the differences were there.

Tony

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2 hours ago, Bruce said:

Since we receive tons of inquiries every day from many customers in general 
and accordingly we would like to treat inquiries about repair service and purchase as well preferentially, 
we might not spare time to reply to you even if you raise any additional inquiries. 
Thank you for your understanding

Like Hughlle  I find this bit of the response particularly surprising bordering on rude IMHO I could almost read this as 'We as a company like to take your money as a customer but don't you dare question us about our manufacturing process' Unfortunately that seems to be quite a prevalent attitude nowadays :angry:

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Guest Bruce
4 minutes ago, graham1981 said:

Like Hughlle  I find this bit of the response particularly surprising bordering on rude IMHO I could almost read this as 'We as a company like to take your money as a customer but don't you dare question us about our manufacturing process' Unfortunately that seems to be quite a prevalent attitude nowadays :angry:

i get what you are saying, but see it from Seiko's point of view [ i am not defending them in any way].

imagine if the reply read: thank you for your enquiry, we make two standards of Seiko watches......the superior Japanese made watches and the lesser Malaysian made watches.

that would be a PR disaster 

personally..i think there are J marked seiko's that are made in Japan with a better overall finish than the K marked ones, but there probably are not many

10 minutes ago, TONY M said:

I saw the video last week comparing the K and J SKX009s. Worth watching however I have owned several SKX007/9s all of them the K version and with a close inspection there were many significant minor differences in the fit and finish between them. You could not tell from a distance and I was hesitant to say which one I preferred but the differences were there.

Tony

thats interesting, i wonder if there would be any noticeable differences in a group of J marked ones?

the plot thickens :yes:

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3 minutes ago, Bruce said:

...thats interesting, i wonder if there would be any noticeable differences in a group of J marked ones?

the plot thickens :yes:

No idea, differences in the monster cases are also noticeable with the K versions as well as minor differences in the dial (lettering, lume colour etc).

Tony

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Just now, Bruce said:

i get what you are saying, but see it from Seiko's point of view [ i am not defending them in any way].

imagine if the reply read: thank you for your enquiry, we make two standards of Seiko watches......the superior Japanese made watches and the lesser Malaysian made watches.

that would be a PR disaster 

personally..i think there are J marked seiko's that are made in Japan with a better overall finish than the K marked ones, but there probably are not many

thats interesting, i wonder if there would be any noticeable differences in a group of J marked ones?

the plot thickens :yes:

I can see what you are saying Bruce and do agree. However if a company is producing goods in two different places (and lots of companies do, not just Seiko) and those goods incur different costs that should be passed on to the customer, some companies do pass the savings on, their high end offerings may be made in one country and their lower end products made in another but as a customer you don't mind as you are paying less for the lower end products ( I have seen the same on Cameras in the past)

At least they are employing people in the end I suppose ! :)

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Guest Bruce
13 minutes ago, graham1981 said:

I can see what you are saying Bruce and do agree. However if a company is producing goods in two different places (and lots of companies do, not just Seiko) and those goods incur different costs that should be passed on to the customer, some companies do pass the savings on, their high end offerings may be made in one country and their lower end products made in another but as a customer you don't mind as you are paying less for the lower end products ( I have seen the same on Cameras in the past)

At least they are employing people in the end I suppose ! :)

i think the cost are different though, there seems to be a price difference between the K and the J, is that customer driven or Seiko driven?

i think sometimes silence can be deafening and Seiko's response to my question says a lot if you read between the lines, but at the end of the day regardless of where their watches are made, i still like Seiko and always will 

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Thanks for the read, was about to post asking about J or K seiko's seeing as I've just had a nosey for prices on the bay.

What would people suggest given the price difference?

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Looking from Seikos perspective Its a very awkward question to answer, they know that every word will be scrutinised by watch enthusiasts the world over, i am not surprised they have played it safe.

i wonder how much of the emails 'tone' can be put down to the language etc but i agree it does sound a little harsh, i am wondering how many times they have answered this particular question over the years :) 

i love what Seiko do (i admit i am a bit of a fanboy) but i think its sometimes worth considering that the cost of a SKX J or K watch is less than a replacement bracelet link from some other watch manufacturers, the quality does vary and as an owner of two 'K' divers i think the J are probably worth the premium (from what i have read/seen) that said the 'K's i have are wonderful watches for their price 

Thanks for posting OP it is a genuinely interesting subject, am i right in saying that the only guarantee on buying a  genuine Japanese manufactured/assembled Seiko is by adding the word 'grand' to the dial?

 

 

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The letter suggest a tone of equal quality between the two places of manufacture, but that Japanese is better.... because for no other reason other than it is Japanese. However they weren't going to say that.

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I did some research on this several years ago, as there were urban rumours that the J stood for 'Made in Japan' and the K for 'Made in Korea'.... or J meant the watch came with a bracelet and K meant a strap....and this is what I eventually found...

Seiko J1 and K1 models

FAQ:         What's the difference between Seiko J1 models and the K1 models.

 The J1 models are for the Far and Middle East markets. They have the days in English and Arabic. They have to say ‘Made in Japan’ on the face. Some have a rubber strap, others have a bracelet. The J1 models often have a shorter bracelet to suit the smaller wrist of that market place.

The K1 models are for the European market and they have the days in English and French/Spanish. Again, they can come with a rubber strap, or a bracelet, but for the European market, they have the full size bracelet.

           There is absolutely no difference in build quality.

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16 hours ago, Damo516 said:

Thanks for the read, was about to post asking about J or K seiko's seeing as I've just had a nosey for prices on the bay.

What would people suggest given the price difference?

Given the price difference I would buy the K version for no reason other than it is cheaper.

Tony

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Guest Bruce

i doubt we will ever know for sure, its not in seiko's interest to confirm or deny IMO

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On 2/16/2016 at 21:14, Roger the Dodger said:

I did some research on this several years ago, as there were urban rumours that the J stood for 'Made in Japan' and the K for 'Made in Korea'.... or J meant the watch came with a bracelet and K meant a strap....and this is what I eventually found...

Seiko J1 and K1 models

 

FAQ:         What's the difference between Seiko J1 models and the K1 models.

 

 The J1 models are for the Far and Middle East markets. They have the days in English and Arabic. They have to say ‘Made in Japan’ on the face. Some have a rubber strap, others have a bracelet. The J1 models often have a shorter bracelet to suit the smaller wrist of that market place.

 

The K1 models are for the European market and they have the days in English and French/Spanish. Again, they can come with a rubber strap, or a bracelet, but for the European market, they have the full size bracelet.

 

           There is absolutely no difference in build quality.

 

Thanks for the 'Likes'.....but please don't take this as read.....this was a bit of research I did about 4 years ago...I think the above was copied and posted from the SCWF*

* Seiko and Citizen Watch Forum.

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As far as I know Seiko 'J' stands for Japan made and Seiko 'K' for Korea... Since Seiko also has its manufacturing units in Singapore & Malaysia , there is also a possibility of manufacturing it in any of these countries. And also the series for J & K , there may be a price difference of 10% . 

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Guest Bruce
2 hours ago, Justinoliver said:

As far as I know Seiko 'J' stands for Japan made and Seiko 'K' for Korea... Since Seiko also has its manufacturing units in Singapore & Malaysia , there is also a possibility of manufacturing it in any of these countries. And also the series for J & K , there may be a price difference of 10% . 

For Deals on all Fashion , Luxury Watches & Smartwatches - Best Watch Deals

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